From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 1 00:11:21 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:11:21 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT: DVI-to-HDMI cables In-Reply-To: <1f13df280712300713p3215ff30nbbee3e1755fb54b8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280712300713p3215ff30nbbee3e1755fb54b8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280712311611o34b7e0d9m2c6e1c457cef5450@mail.gmail.com> My apologies for A) top-posting, and B) replying to myself (I wanted to keep the original post attached to this) ... I'm very glad to find a way around the high price of HDMI cables, thanks Ted and Scott. Can anyone address driving a high resolution display through an HDMI input using Linux? Thanks. On Dec 30, 2007 10:13 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > I'm considering buying a 1080p LCD TV and perhaps this isn't OT at all > because I have every intention of using it as a monitor with Linux as > well as for movies. A friend has an older Sceptre 37" and we had very > little trouble getting it set up at 1920x1080 with Linux - but it has > a VGA in. A few of the current batch of LCD TVs come with VGA ins, > and I think I've seen one or two with DVI ins, but pretty much all of > the ones I'm looking at come with HDMI ins. So if I don't get DVI/VGA > in, and I buy one of those ludicrously expensive DVI-to-HDMI cables > (currently about $75 each), would it allow me to run the LCD TV as a > monitor at a full 1920x1080 resolution? I have a video card that will > support this. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 1 20:52:36 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:52:36 +0000 Subject: Any simple menuing dialogs callable from scripts? In-Reply-To: <20071222203305.GA21460-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20071222203305.GA21460@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <3a97ef0801011252v351203b6if4213050c1a187d9@mail.gmail.com> If you just need a quick dialog box, you could use xdialog or perhaps kdialog if you're using KDE. On Dec 22, 2007 8:33 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > Are there any simple menuing dialogs that are callable from scripts, > without gaving to resort to C programming? > > -- > Walter Dnes > I'm not repeating myself > I'm an X Window user... I'm an ex-Windows-user > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 477-1784 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 1 21:29:43 2008 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 16:29:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Need a ZIP Code for Toronto. Message-ID: <623334.69129.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Yes, the above is serious if odd request. As noted in my December TLUG and at the October NewTLUG presentations I am playing with a HDTV tuner card in my MythTV box. Said tuner is connected to an over the air TV antenna (due to ..."oddities"... of Rogers cable service). Now I want to move as much recording as possible to HDTV as possible, but I am running into a new wrinkle... I get TV listing data from "Schedules Direct" (who in turn get their data from Tribute Media). Schedules Direct knows the channel line-ups for the various Toronto area cable systems, the various Satellite services, and they know Toronto analog TV. What they don't know is the digital over the air TV layout for Toronto. This blind spot for digital TV appears to extend across Canada :-( . So, as a stop-gap measure I am looking for the best best Toronto, Ontario friendly US ZIP code. At the moment I have told "Schedules Direct" that my cable TV comes through to a Toronto postal code (my own) and that my HDTV feed is coming to a receiver in Lockport, New York (ZIP code : 14094). The Lockport ZIP code gets me the listings for all the Buffalo area HDTV stations I can get (and it gets me listings for a few Buffalo area HDTV stations I can not get), it also gets me the strongest Toronto HDTV stations (CBC, and CTV). Problem is it doesn't get me some of the weaker Toronto area HDTV stations (CITY TV and Sun TV for example). So, I can make things work with the Lockport 14094 ZIP code but is there a better US ZIP code to use with Schedules Direct? Anyone know, or am I alone in this area? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 1 22:25:48 2008 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 17:25:48 -0500 Subject: Need a ZIP Code for Toronto. In-Reply-To: <623334.69129.qm-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <623334.69129.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <477ABDEC.10901@ve3syb.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > So, I can make things work with the Lockport 14094 ZIP > code but is there a better US ZIP code to use with > Schedules Direct? Based on checking out Google maps, the closest point to Toronto that is in the US would be near the shore of Lake Ontario. I came up with a postal Code of 14174-1059 but, as the crow flies, that is hardly any difference from what you already tried. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 2 00:27:03 2008 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 19:27:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: Need a ZIP Code for Toronto. In-Reply-To: <477ABDEC.10901-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <477ABDEC.10901@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <770794.96665.qm@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Kevin Cozens wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > > So, I can make things work with the Lockport 14094 > ZIP > > code but is there a better US ZIP code to use with > > Schedules Direct? > > Based on checking out Google maps, the closest point > to Toronto that is in the > US would be near the shore of Lake Ontario. I came > up with a postal Code of > 14174-1059 but, as the crow flies, that is hardly > any difference from what you > already tried. I did check the 14174 ZIP code (Schedules Direct only deals in 5 digit US ZIP codes). This does help to the tune of one channel. The Youngstown, NY listings (unlike the Lockport listings) do include CITY TV's HD listings, which is an improvement. For the other problem channels (like the Toronto Sun HD channel), I can still deal with those, but it means more manual edits than I am happy with. Still, being able to drop the number of channels I have to jump through hoops on is a nice thing. Thanks. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 2 01:56:05 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 20:56:05 -0500 Subject: Need a Zip Code for Toronto Message-ID: <477AEF35.9090903@rogers.com> I don't know how you would find it out, but it would seem to me that the U.S. Consulate on University Ave would have a zip code for letters mailed in the U.S. HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 2 02:36:09 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 21:36:09 -0500 Subject: Need a Zip Code for Toronto In-Reply-To: <477AEF35.9090903-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <477AEF35.9090903@rogers.com> Message-ID: <477AF899.6090104@rogers.com> John McGregor wrote: > I don't know how you would find it out, but it would seem to me that > the U.S. Consulate on University Ave would have a zip code for letters > mailed in the U.S. If they do, it would likely be for some location in the U.S. that forwards the mail, in a manner similar to the military mail boxes. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 2 05:04:52 2008 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 00:04:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: Need a Zip Code for Toronto In-Reply-To: <477AF899.6090104-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <477AF899.6090104@rogers.com> Message-ID: <944636.74311.qm@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- James Knott wrote: > John McGregor wrote: > > I don't know how you would find it out, but it > would seem to me that > > the U.S. Consulate on University Ave would have a > zip code for letters > > mailed in the U.S. > > If they do, it would likely be for some location in > the U.S. that > forwards the mail, in a manner similar to the > military mail boxes. Yes, there is the rub, it would likely be something like a post office box number c/o the US State Department in Washington DC, which for my purposes would be of zero help. I am not much of a sports fan (like most geeks). Still, I was semi-interested to see there is a very new sports oriented channel coming out of Buffalo on digital TV, WCSN on channel 7_3 (sharing that channel with the Buffalo HD ABC affiliate and the Buffalo RTN (Retro Television Network) affiliate (only the ABC signal is HD, the RTN and WCSN signals are standard definition digital signals). I have filled in a feedback form for "Schedules Direct" asking them to update/upgrade their listings to include WCSN (not a priority to watch down hill skiing, but with weather like we have now, knowing when women's beach volleyball is going to be on does have some appeal to this non-sports fan :-) ). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hdevalence-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 2 02:06:44 2008 From: hdevalence-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Henry de Valence) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 21:06:44 -0500 Subject: Need a Zip Code for Toronto In-Reply-To: <477AEF35.9090903-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <477AEF35.9090903@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200801012106.44408.hdevalence@gmail.com> On Tuesday 01 January 2008 8:56:05 pm John McGregor wrote: > I don't know how you would find it out, but it would seem to me that the > U.S. Consulate on University Ave would have a zip code for letters > mailed in the U.S. Their websight reports: Consulate General of the United States of America 360 University Avenue, Toronto, Ontario M5G 1S4 Canada -- Harry de Valence -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 3 20:00:55 2008 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 15:00:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Scripting for mod_ssl startup In-Reply-To: <200801012106.44408.hdevalence-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <477AEF35.9090903@rogers.com> <200801012106.44408.hdevalence@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8912.192.168.20.1.1199390455.squirrel@nray.ca> Does anyone on this list know how I could write a script to request user input during the httpd startup? I'm using Fedora 7 and Apache with mod_SSL. I have a signed cert from Thawte made using a csr created with a pass phrase protected private key. When I start the httpd I should get a prompt asking me for the pass phrase. Unfortunately, I don't. However, when I hard code the pass phrase into a bash script file that is called from the ssl.conf the httpd starts up fine. This solution worries me as I don't like the idea of having the pass phrase hard coded in a file that the apache daemon can access. My bash scripting knowledge is poor and my attempts to create a prompt to request the pass phrase have not been effective. Do any of you have any suggestions? Thanks, Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From abentley-9uqKfT/VB6MKNb1xFVKl7WItS4zQEDct at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 3 20:07:14 2008 From: abentley-9uqKfT/VB6MKNb1xFVKl7WItS4zQEDct at public.gmane.org (Aaron Bentley) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:07:14 -0500 Subject: Python / C++ developer wanted Message-ID: <477D4072.8030902@panoramicfeedback.com> Hi all, My company, PanoMetrics, is hiring. We're a web-oriented company, with a codebase that combines Python and C++. If you're interested, see here: http://panoramicfeedback.com/jobs.html Thanks, Aaron -- Aaron Bentley Director of Technology Panometrics, Inc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 3 23:47:20 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 18:47:20 -0500 Subject: Scripting for mod_ssl startup In-Reply-To: <8912.192.168.20.1.1199390455.squirrel-wtWqQT8woy8@public.gmane.org> References: <477AEF35.9090903@rogers.com> <200801012106.44408.hdevalence@gmail.com> <8912.192.168.20.1.1199390455.squirrel@nray.ca> Message-ID: <200801031847.26055.jamon.camisso@utoronto.ca> On January 3, 2008 03:00:55 pm Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > Does anyone on this list know how I could write a script to request > user input during the httpd startup? > > I'm using Fedora 7 and Apache with mod_SSL. I have a signed cert from > Thawte made using a csr created with a pass phrase protected private > key. When I start the httpd I should get a prompt asking me for the > pass phrase. Unfortunately, I don't. > > However, when I hard code the pass phrase into a bash script file > that is called from the ssl.conf the httpd starts up fine. This > solution worries me as I don't like the idea of having the pass > phrase hard coded in a file that the apache daemon can access. My > bash scripting knowledge is poor and my attempts to create a prompt > to request the pass phrase have not been effective. > > Do any of you have any suggestions? Do you really need the passphrase? If you're going to have it automatically input, you would be better off removing it from the key altogether in case of reboots or crashes. Keep in mind that the new server.key will have no passphrase, so if your box was ever rooted, you'd have to revoke that certificate and purchase a new one. Make sure only root can read the file (400 permission). Make a backup of your key, then doing the following: openssl rsa -in server.key.old -out server.key After that Apache will start up without any problems with the key key in place. Check it in your browser to make sure that the des3->rsa switch doesn't affect the certificate's validation. Also, anything in apache's logs when you try to start it without the bash hardcoded file? Does selinux interfere with the startup prompt? Jamon -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 4 13:09:04 2008 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 08:09:04 -0500 Subject: Phisher of the Week (AIDS) In-Reply-To: <473c25250712301147v7cb5dce2u8d2c3a3a53671033-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7438.99.232.68.237.1198892008.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20071230180345.GA3979@waltdnes.org> <473c25250712301147v7cb5dce2u8d2c3a3a53671033@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200801040809.04533.dbmacg@look.ca> On December 30, 2007 02:47:44 pm Brandon Sandrowicz wrote: > On 12/30/07, Walter Dnes wrote: > > Well, sometimes shit happens. Back in the 1940's, a trademark was > > registered for a dietary supplement. I think the guy's name was Andrew > > Young, or something like that. He named his dietary supplement after > > himself. Since "Andrew Young's Dietary Supplement" was a mouthfull to > > say, it was shortened to AYDS. He sold the brand to another company, > > which was bought by another company, etc. The product was actually > > quite successful in the late 1970's and early 1980's, with the slogan > > that "AYDS helps you lose wight". Then disaster struck. You can > > actually find some old commercials for it on Google video, etc. ... > > I had no idea. That must have been where that South Park episode's > inspiration was from. (the one where Jared from Subway told everyone > that he really lost weight due to aides, his personal assistants, but > everyone thought he said AIDS). Sorry that this is a little OT On a Honeywell mainframe running GCOS, the only way to run batch jobs was using 'Job Control Language' or JCL. JCL defined job sequence, and included file assignments and control parameters In practice, JCL became hellishly complex to set up, because of all the control parameters had to to be entered into the JCL stream. We got a program from GE that made JCL setup an interactive process fed by prompts in the original JCL 'deck'. So our Job Control 'Language' became interactive, and setup became a question-and-answer sequence on a terminal. Questions were about work to be performed, not language syntax. Anyhoo, the program was called Automated Integrated Deck Setup (AIDS), and we used it for many years. AIDS was really helpful to us. Now aids are no longer helpful things. -- Duncan MacGregor --- Toronto --- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 4 13:50:13 2008 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 08:50:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Scripting for mod_ssl startup In-Reply-To: <200801031847.26055.jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <477AEF35.9090903@rogers.com> <200801012106.44408.hdevalence@gmail.com> <8912.192.168.20.1.1199390455.squirrel@nray.ca> <200801031847.26055.jamon.camisso@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <9327.192.168.20.1.1199454613.squirrel@nray.ca> Jamon, Thanks for your thoughts. > Do you really need the passphrase? I'm not sure if I really need the passphrase. There definately needs to be some people on the web that don't think a passphrase on the key has any real value. The cert in question is going on an online store so I'm trying to be overly cautious about security. I can make it work successfully without the passphrase, thanks for your instructions. What I'd really like, is to get the httpd to ask me for the passphrase on startup and then use my input to unlock the key. mod_ssl is supposed to do that automatically but it doesn't seem to want to. > Also, anything in apache's logs when you try to start it without the > bash hardcoded file? Does selinux interfere with the startup prompt? Yes, I get the '[error] Init: Unable to read pass phrase' in the ssl_error_log Yes, selinux did cause some issues at first but once I relabeled the files in question httpd started up fine with out any warnings. Thanks again, Stephen On Thu, January 3, 2008 18:47, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On January 3, 2008 03:00:55 pm Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > >> Does anyone on this list know how I could write a script to request >> user input during the httpd startup? >> >> I'm using Fedora 7 and Apache with mod_SSL. I have a signed cert from >> Thawte made using a csr created with a pass phrase protected private >> key. When I start the httpd I should get a prompt asking me for the pass >> phrase. Unfortunately, I don't. >> >> However, when I hard code the pass phrase into a bash script file >> that is called from the ssl.conf the httpd starts up fine. This solution >> worries me as I don't like the idea of having the pass phrase hard coded >> in a file that the apache daemon can access. My bash scripting knowledge >> is poor and my attempts to create a prompt to request the pass phrase >> have not been effective. >> >> Do any of you have any suggestions? >> > > Do you really need the passphrase? If you're going to have it > automatically input, you would be better off removing it from the key > altogether in case of reboots or crashes. > > Keep in mind that the new server.key will have no passphrase, so if your > box was ever rooted, you'd have to revoke that certificate and purchase a > new one. Make sure only root can read the file (400 permission). > > Make a backup of your key, then doing the following: > openssl rsa -in server.key.old -out server.key > > After that Apache will start up without any problems with the key key in > place. Check it in your browser to make sure that the des3->rsa switch > doesn't affect the certificate's validation. > > Also, anything in apache's logs when you try to start it without the > bash hardcoded file? Does selinux interfere with the startup prompt? > > Jamon > > > -- Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA (905) 627-1302 x14 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 4 14:07:09 2008 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:07:09 -0500 Subject: Wal-Mart $200 Everex GPC experience Message-ID: <200801040907.09799.dbmacg@look.ca> On Ebay I got an Everex gPC, that had been originally bought from Wal-Mart for $200. I was curious to see what 200 bucks got you. This machine has a VIA mini-ATX motherboard (PCM7G-PC2500G) with a VIA C7-D processor that runs at 1500Mhz. It comes with 512mb DDR2 RAM, a combo DVD-CDRW drive, and an ATA 80Gb hard drive. The motherboard has onboard audio, LAN and video, many USB connectors, two SATA connectors, and connectors for four IDE drives. It has two slots for DDR2 RAM. My first thought was that apart from the silly combo drive, and only 512mb RAM supplied , it was not a shabby machine to run Linux on. The combo drive was dead, so I replaced it with a $30 SATA DVD-RW drive. It is supplied with gOS, a Debian variant, that uses enlightenment . While gOS ran nicely, I had some difficulty figuring out why the developers were trying so hard to conserve resources. I felt gOS to be a masked-off version of a real OS, and I yearned for the software facility I was used to. The hardware is powerful enough to handle a full distro, so why not use it? I first installed Mandriva PowerPack 2008 (which ran well), and then replaced that with the new Mandriva Free 2008.1 Alpha, which also runs well. Lots of disk space left, and memory at 512mb is not much of an issue. (I added $38 of RAM to it [2Gb!] anyway.) The machine is very responsive; I also have an AMD 2200XP and the Everex box is about as fast in practice. I think Everex should have installed a DVD-RW drive and a full-on Linux distro. I am very happy with this machine. It is very quiet, and draws very little power. The clever motherboard is small, with IDE, SATA, USB, LAN, Video, and Audio, is in a standard case, with lots of room. It looks nice, and is quiet. -- Duncan MacGregor --- Toronto --- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 4 16:14:30 2008 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:14:30 -0500 Subject: Wal-Mart $200 Everex GPC experience In-Reply-To: <200801040907.09799.dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM@public.gmane.org> References: <200801040907.09799.dbmacg@look.ca> Message-ID: At the next TLUG meeting , can you bring this PC with you? Maybe we can hook it up to the projector. Duncan MacGregor wrote: > On Ebay I got an Everex gPC, that had been originally bought from Wal-Mart for > $200. I was curious to see what 200 bucks got you. > > This machine has a VIA mini-ATX motherboard (PCM7G-PC2500G) with a VIA C7-D > processor that runs at 1500Mhz. It comes with 512mb DDR2 RAM, a combo > DVD-CDRW drive, and an ATA 80Gb hard drive. The motherboard has onboard > audio, LAN and video, many USB connectors, two SATA connectors, and > connectors for four IDE drives. It has two slots for DDR2 RAM. > > My first thought was that apart from the silly combo drive, and only 512mb > RAM supplied , it was not a shabby machine to run Linux on. The combo drive > was dead, so I replaced it with a $30 SATA DVD-RW drive. > > It is supplied with gOS, a Debian variant, that uses enlightenment . > While gOS ran nicely, I had some difficulty figuring out why the developers > were trying so hard to conserve resources. I felt gOS to be a masked-off > version of a real OS, and I yearned for the software facility I was used to. > The hardware is powerful enough to handle a full distro, so why not use it? > > I first installed Mandriva PowerPack 2008 (which ran well), and then replaced > that with the new Mandriva Free 2008.1 Alpha, which also runs well. Lots of > disk space left, and memory at 512mb is not much of an issue. (I added $38 of > RAM to it [2Gb!] anyway.) > > The machine is very responsive; I also have an AMD 2200XP and the Everex box > is about as fast in practice. > > I think Everex should have installed a DVD-RW drive and a full-on Linux > distro. > > I am very happy with this machine. It is very quiet, and draws very little > power. The clever motherboard is small, with IDE, SATA, USB, LAN, Video, and > Audio, is in a standard case, with lots of room. > > It looks nice, and is quiet. > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 4 23:00:08 2008 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 18:00:08 -0500 Subject: Wal-Mart $200 Everex GPC experience In-Reply-To: <200801040907.09799.dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM@public.gmane.org> References: <200801040907.09799.dbmacg@look.ca> Message-ID: <477EBA78.7040204@ve3syb.ca> Duncan MacGregor wrote: > On Ebay I got an Everex gPC, that had been originally bought from Wal-Mart for > $200. I was curious to see what 200 bucks got you. Sounds like an interesting machine. To clarify, you bought it from eBay for $200 or were you saying that they were being sold at Wal-Mart for $200? -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 4 23:40:31 2008 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 18:40:31 -0500 Subject: Wal-Mart $200 Everex GPC experience In-Reply-To: <477EBA78.7040204-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200801040907.09799.dbmacg@look.ca> <477EBA78.7040204@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <200801041840.31278.dbmacg@look.ca> On January 4, 2008 06:00:08 pm Kevin Cozens wrote: > Duncan MacGregor wrote: > > On Ebay I got an Everex gPC, that had been originally bought from > > Wal-Mart for $200. I was curious to see what 200 bucks got you. > > Sounds like an interesting machine. To clarify, you bought it from eBay for > $200 or were you saying that they were being sold at Wal-Mart for $200? They are available in the US for $200 at Wal-Mart. They sold out quickly. I liked the idea of a minimal pure Linux box, with no Microsoft tax. I bought one on Ebay for $108 plus shipping. -- Duncan MacGregor --- Toronto --- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 5 17:08:21 2008 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 12:08:21 -0500 Subject: Sacrilege? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <477FB985.8000204@ve3syb.ca> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > How far can you hit a penguin? > > Cute. The first time I managed to connect with the penguin I had a distance of 315.9. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 5 18:40:32 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 13:40:32 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT: DVI-to-HDMI cables In-Reply-To: <1f13df280712311611o34b7e0d9m2c6e1c457cef5450-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280712300713p3215ff30nbbee3e1755fb54b8@mail.gmail.com> <1f13df280712311611o34b7e0d9m2c6e1c457cef5450@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477FCF20.4090104@pppoe.ca> Giles Orr wrote: > My apologies for A) top-posting, and B) replying to myself (I wanted > to keep the original post attached to this) ... I'm very glad to find > a way around the high price of HDMI cables, thanks Ted and Scott. Can > anyone address driving a high resolution display through an HDMI input > using Linux? Thanks. > > On Dec 30, 2007 10:13 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > >> I'm considering buying a 1080p LCD TV and perhaps this isn't OT at all >> because I have every intention of using it as a monitor with Linux as >> well as for movies. A friend has an older Sceptre 37" and we had very >> little trouble getting it set up at 1920x1080 with Linux - but it has >> a VGA in. A few of the current batch of LCD TVs come with VGA ins, >> and I think I've seen one or two with DVI ins, but pretty much all of >> the ones I'm looking at come with HDMI ins. So if I don't get DVI/VGA >> in, and I buy one of those ludicrously expensive DVI-to-HDMI cables >> (currently about $75 each), would it allow me to run the LCD TV as a >> monitor at a full 1920x1080 resolution? I have a video card that will >> support this. >> I was just at Above All Electronic Surplus Ltd., 602 Bloor Street West. They carry HDMI/DVI cables at $20 and up. The phone # are 416 588 8119/8044. Regards Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 6 03:13:34 2008 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 22:13:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: GTALug and IT360 Message-ID: <379205.74837.qm@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Just to note, The IT360 trade show will be happening here in Toronto on April 7-9, 2008. Discussions regarding IT360 have started inside the board, as well as between IT360 and GTALug. Current TENTATIVE plan is as follows: - GTALug will have a booth at IT360. - There will be a GTALug "birds of a feater" (BOF) meeting at the show. - The normal "main" meeting will be held April 8 at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre. So, what do you want to see at IT360? Keep in mind that the goal here is to get a general IT crowd involved with Linux and GTALug. Beyond that well, we want to make as big a splash as we can. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 6 17:56:39 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 12:56:39 -0500 Subject: GTALug and IT360 In-Reply-To: <379205.74837.qm-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <379205.74837.qm@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280801060956l4226793h62dd5aaacb5159e1@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 5, 2008 10:13 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > So, what do you want to see at IT360? Keep in mind > that the goal here is to get a general IT crowd > involved with Linux and GTALug. Beyond that well, we > want to make as big a splash as we can. I would suggest (and this should carry all the weight of an armchair observer unwilling to exert himself by doing actual physical work) that we've done distros enough, and we should assume most people know what Linux is. So now we need to convince them that they can go about their lives normally with the programs Linux provides. Show them the best, the least quirky: OpenOffice, K3B, Firefox (don't spend much time on it, they know what it is - just to show it runs). I'm sure others can think of a more complete list. Maybe the GIMP - powerful, but if you want to avoid quirky as I suggested, it might be best to skip. Given that a large(?) portion of the IT360 crowd is IT professionals, maybe showing off LAMP or wireshark and friends could draw a crowd. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bduncan-m0FWaBiyNdxg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 6 18:07:59 2008 From: bduncan-m0FWaBiyNdxg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Bill Duncan, 416-697-9315) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 13:07:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: GTALug and IT360 In-Reply-To: <379205.74837.qm-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> from "Colin McGregor" at Jan 05, 2008 10:13:34 PM References: <379205.74837.qm@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: [Colin McGregor said:] > > So, what do you want to see at IT360? Keep in mind > that the goal here is to get a general IT crowd > involved with Linux and GTALug. Beyond that well, we > want to make as big a splash as we can. I'd say that for the past few years, much of the IT excitement is in virtualization and cost savings. I'd say show off a honking machine with dozens of virtual servers running with all flavours of OSes running on top. Take your pick on the technology, maybe two systems, one using Xen, the other VMware. Cheers. -- Bill Duncan, | http://www.servermetrix.com/ bduncan-Tt1S4t/1SSIwofDVIiI1Aw at public.gmane.org | - linux/unix/network security +1 416 697-9315 | - web and application hosting -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 01:33:07 2008 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 20:33:07 -0500 Subject: GTALug and IT360 In-Reply-To: References: <379205.74837.qm@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080107013307.GA3623@otter.int.linuxcaffe.ca> On Sun, Jan 06, 2008 at 01:07:59PM -0500, Bill Duncan, 416-697-9315 wrote: > [Colin McGregor said:] > > > > So, what do you want to see at IT360? Keep in mind > > that the goal here is to get a general IT crowd > > involved with Linux and GTALug. Beyond that well, we > > want to make as big a splash as we can. > > I'd say that for the past few years, much of the IT excitement is in > virtualization and cost savings. I'd say show off a honking machine > with dozens of virtual servers running with all flavours of OSes running > on top. Take your pick on the technology, maybe two systems, one using > Xen, the other VMware. > I would second that. Demonstrate linux in action and with real world applications running. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 07:16:18 2008 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 02:16:18 -0500 Subject: Yet another low cost linux box announced Message-ID: <20080107071618.GA5516@waltdnes.org> theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/01/06/shuttle-release-sub-200-linux Shuttle to release sub-$200 Linux box CES 2008: Big name, low price By Charlie Demerjian: Sunday, 06 January 2008, 12:56 PM -- Walter Dnes I'm not repeating myself I'm an X Window user... I'm an ex-Windows-user -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 12:17:59 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 07:17:59 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <473c25250712151429t3af3dbe8p4e5b1a8fd542b902-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <475E84AE.200@chrisaitken.net> <475EA3D0.9000003@chrisaitken.net> <475EA89C.4060807@chrisaitken.net> <20071211160301.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211161308.9490.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <473c25250712151429t3af3dbe8p4e5b1a8fd542b902@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> I includes the whole email with (one new response) to refresh everyone's memory: Brandon Sandrowicz writes: > On Dec 11, 2007 1:58 PM, wrote: >> >> Interesting that on another machine (ubuntu as well) the entire contents of >> /etc/network/interfaces is, >> >> auto lo >> iface lo inet loopback >> >> It doesn't have an entry for an Internet connection at all - yet I have >> Internet connectivity. It makes you wonder if this file is being referred to >> at all (for Internet, anyway). > > /etc/network/interfaces is not used at all so far as I know by default > in Ubuntu. It will use it if you put some config in there, but > otherwise NetworkManager works through HAL and DBUS to configure the > network (at least on the newer releases of Ubuntu). > >> > At the same time, I would have thought the dhcp interface would be the >> > one to provide the default gateway in general, in which case eth0 should >> > not have any gateway line at all. >> >> Well, my router documentation instructed that the gateway (router address) >> is 192.1.68.0.1 > > Yes, but the DHCP should provide that for the interface so that you > don't have to do so manually. DHCP should provide the DNS server and > Gateway addresses. > >> > broadcast and network lines are also completely redundant since the >> > netmask and address are enough to calculate the other two (and is in >> > fact what is being done). >> >> Okay, thanks. Now I have to configure a third computer with local address so >> it can print to the printer at another machine. Based on my understanding of >> your instructions, can I add these lines to it's /etc/network/interfaces >> file?: >> >> iface eth1 inet static >> address 192.168.0.4 >> netmask 255.255.255.0 > > You could also manually set the IP on NetworkManager.... `gksudo network-admin` Okay, I tried that. That gave me the 'Network Settings' interface. The only 'Connection ' listed is 'Wired Connection (Address: dhcp)'. It won't let me make a brand-new connection - onl an alias. So, I created an alias 'devon1' with ip adress 191.168.0.9 but it still won't show up when I run /sbin/ifconfig. Chris > `nm-tool` and `nm-applet` are also useful for working w/ NetworkManager. > > > > -- > Brandon Sandrowicz > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 14:56:31 2008 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 09:56:31 -0500 Subject: GTALug and IT360 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47823D9F.7080103@totaltravelmarketing.com> That's a really good suggestion Jose Bill Duncan, 416-697-9315 wrote: > [Colin McGregor said:] > >> So, what do you want to see at IT360? Keep in mind >> that the goal here is to get a general IT crowd >> involved with Linux and GTALug. Beyond that well, we >> want to make as big a splash as we can. >> > > I'd say that for the past few years, much of the IT excitement is in > virtualization and cost savings. I'd say show off a honking machine > with dozens of virtual servers running with all flavours of OSes running > on top. Take your pick on the technology, maybe two systems, one using > Xen, the other VMware. > > Cheers. > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 15:51:12 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 10:51:12 -0500 Subject: GTALug and IT360 In-Reply-To: References: <379205.74837.qm@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Jan 6, 2008 1:07 PM, Bill Duncan, 416-697-9315 wrote: > [Colin McGregor said:] > > > > So, what do you want to see at IT360? Keep in mind > > that the goal here is to get a general IT crowd > > involved with Linux and GTALug. Beyond that well, we > > want to make as big a splash as we can. > > I'd say that for the past few years, much of the IT excitement is in > virtualization and cost savings. I'd say show off a honking machine > with dozens of virtual servers running with all flavours of OSes running > on top. Take your pick on the technology, maybe two systems, one using > Xen, the other VMware. Do I hear a volunteer speaking? This sounds like a pretty neat idea, but it only happens if someone can volunteer those two "honking systems" along with having a suitable demonstration. For this to happen, there does need to be a volunteer Rather Soon Now because the show is coming up pretty quickly, and it takes time to prepare. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 20:28:26 2008 From: asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Asaf Maruf) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 15:28:26 -0500 Subject: GTALug and IT360 In-Reply-To: <20080107013307.GA3623-f3ydu6uS1R7I9rkgco+hXrUXFt3QzJ1Y@public.gmane.org> References: <379205.74837.qm@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20080107013307.GA3623@otter.int.linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <49e826e90801071228y21c1d270ude62d932a3df27cd@mail.gmail.com> Wouldn't be a bad idea to show one of the following open source virtualization software: 1. OpenVZ 2. KVM Infact, OpenVZ is available as a Live CD and another live CD based on Knoppix (VMKnoppix) can also be used to demonstrate the power of Linux and open source. VMKnoppix can be downloaded from here: http://lists.debian.org/debian-knoppix/2007/03/msg00011.html Asaf On Jan 6, 2008 8:33 PM, David J Patrick wrote: > On Sun, Jan 06, 2008 at 01:07:59PM -0500, Bill Duncan, 416-697-9315 wrote: > > [Colin McGregor said:] > > > > > > So, what do you want to see at IT360? Keep in mind > > > that the goal here is to get a general IT crowd > > > involved with Linux and GTALug. Beyond that well, we > > > want to make as big a splash as we can. > > > > I'd say that for the past few years, much of the IT excitement is in > > virtualization and cost savings. I'd say show off a honking machine > > with dozens of virtual servers running with all flavours of OSes running > > on top. Take your pick on the technology, maybe two systems, one using > > Xen, the other VMware. > > > I would second that. Demonstrate linux in action and with real world > applications running. > djp > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- "I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." - Richard P. Feynman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 20:39:11 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 15:39:11 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets Message-ID: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1@mx.google.com> I'm still wrestling with the problem of choosing a good language for web development projects. As I mentioned previously, I'm looking to get into some web development this year, but have no idea where to start. I've looked into Ruby on Rails, and I have to admit the concepts of "Agile Development" sound sweet, but is it too good to be true? Based on all of the articles, below I don't know who to believe anymore. I simply don't have enough time to learn every language and then pick the best one - particularly since problems like maintenance and support can't be predicted by a quick tutorial session. Here's what I've figured out, and I don't see a good option out of the bunch. Please feel free to add your own thoughts, a good discussion on the ins and outs of different languages would be much appreciated! Thanks, -kms PHP: The defacto web standard? It seems to be supported everywhere, scales well, and has lots of libraries, but can be difficult to maintain and get up to speed on. Ruby On Rails: If you believe the marketing hype, it'll do everything including walk the dog three times a day with one line of code. Is this yet another web fad, or is RoR something worth pursuing? Java: Difficult to develop with, not widely supported, and high hardware requirements. Overall, sounds like an expensive PITA. It might be good for enterprise-level apps with coders immersed in java for 5+ years, but not good for smaller, quicker development-time apps. ASP.NET: Gotta at least look at the MS options. I know enough of the .NET framework that I could probably get up to speed really quickly, and MS does a pretty good job of making things easy. They also do a very bad job of making it flexible, scalable, or secure. Also locks in the platform to being MS-only. Python: Don't know much about python beyond Mailman. Looks like a decent scripting language, can it do reports and interface mySQL well? Perl: "The Original Web Language" and I know it has a rabid following. The whole world can be built in Perl, but is it the best way to go? Some site references: Ruby on Rails debate (the martial arts and melodrama doesn't scare me, but idea of the community imploding definitely does. I don't plan on supporting this app forever, so having something maintainable by others is really big) More of the Ruby on Rails debate. Comparisons Are any of these accurate? Any other good articles comparing languages/toolsets/platforms for web development? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 20:45:29 2008 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 15:45:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: Booth design Message-ID: <407356.88549.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> As previously noted there is talk going on inside the executive regarding IT360. With that comes the question of furnishing a booth on the cheap. The current design view boils down to some sort of holder/frame at the back to hold up a backdrop + posters. In front of that 1 - 2 folding table(s) (covered and skirted in order to hold literature on top and hide coats/spare supplies underneath). In front of that 2 bar stools / bistro chairs for volunteers to sit on (we want people even when sitting to be at roughly eye height of visitors to the booth, so, no regular chairs). Beyond that, carpeting would be very nice, but not required. and nothing else... The closest thing to a controversy is centered around the design of the back holder/frame. Question is, do we want: - A T style holder where a center post holds out 2 4.75 foot hangers from which we hang our backdrop material. - An upside down U frame with posts at each end holding up a 9.5 foot pole across the back. Both ideas have a set of strengths and weaknesses. Key point in my books is that we want a booth design that can fold up and be dropped into the back of a small car or in a pinch be hauled away by 4-5 volunteers on the subway... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 20:49:32 2008 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 15:49:32 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1-ATjtLOhZ0NVl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> References: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b20801071249k291bb058nef1af2af6621468d@mail.gmail.com> Hi Kareem, > I've looked into Ruby on Rails, and I have to admit the concepts of "Agile > Development" sound sweet, but is it too good to be true? I've taken some time to learn Rails, and have found it enforces a lot of great coding practices, such as MVC. The limitations are that it makes a lot of things easy, but the functionality that you want to integrate becomes very hard. > PHP: The defacto web standard? It seems to be supported everywhere, scales > well, and has lots of libraries, but can be difficult to maintain and get up > to speed on. I also think you'll find there are more PHP developers than any other kind out there. It has broad support on any platform, has a very large community behind it. From our previous discussion I can see that many people think it's insecure, but again, with good coding practices you can alleviate that point. I don't honestly think that it's hard to get up to speed on. > Ruby On Rails: If you believe the marketing hype, it'll do everything > including walk the dog three times a day with one line of code. Is this yet > another web fad, or is RoR something worth pursuing? I definitely think it's worth pursuing. If I were starting out today I'd probably be neck deep into Rails. It has a large community, and there's no question that it's a legitimate environment. Rails isn't going anywhere. Not to mention that learning Ruby will give you leverage in other parts of your computing life, as it's a full-on object oriented language. > Java: Bah. > ASP.NET: Double-bah! You can't seriously expect a good answer on this list. ;-) > Python: Not familiar with this, but Python isn't exactly known for its suitability for web app development. > Perl: There are a number of rabid old school fans of Perl, but it's been supplanted by PHP. To my mind, your decision is really between PHP and Rails. You'll be able to build fine applications with either one: you just need to stick your toe in the water and get a feeling for which community is right for you. Best of luck! Aaron. -- Aaron Vegh, Principal Innoveghtive Inc. P: (647) 477-2690 C: (905) 924-1220 www.innoveghtive.com www.website-in-a-day.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 21:08:45 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 16:08:45 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1-ATjtLOhZ0NVl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> References: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420801071308i56cae1d0w7c71c3902c538ac8@mail.gmail.com> I've used Ruby on Rails, PHP, Perl, and Java to build web applications. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. Ruby on Rails is, generally, a well thought out platform. It makes the right way easier than the wrong way, assuming the you agree with the platform designers about what is the "right way". I started a project in Rails and was generally enjoying it, but my take on database design conflicts heavily with DHH's (David Heinemeier Hansson is the primary author of Rails) and so we had to restart in a different language. (The problem was that a single-column primary key wasn't enough to model the data we cared about and I didn't want to do referential integrity in the application.) For applications with a simple database schema, Rails is a really good way to go--the code is readable, the tools are useful and easy to use, and the community is good. One potential problem is that the ruby interpreter is pretty slow, but it's apparently easy to scale Rails applications by running more servers. I found PHP to be a horrendous language. It's obviously very popular, the interpreter is apparently pretty fast, and the documentation is very good, but I'll never voluntarily use the language again. It's been too long to remember the details of why, but I just found the whole language had a funny smell to it. I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with Perl. You have to be disciplined and make sure you keep your code readable when you write in Perl. It _is_ the ultimate Swiss army knife, though. There's a module on CPAN for just about every conceivable computing task and the Perl interpreter is quite speedy. I think, with Perl, the big task is finding the right tool for the task at hand. The rest is a Simple Matter of Programming (TM). Java is just a beast. I'm struggling right now with a Java EE application fronted by a GWT interface (GWT is the Google Web Toolkit--it compiles Java source to Javascript for running in the browser). It's taken me a long time to understand the ins and outs of running an application inside an application server like JBoss. The little things like the difference between a session bean, a persistent bean, and a message-oriented bean are easy to understand, but configuring the container to host your application is a twisty maze of documentation, all alike. I think Java EE probably has a good scalability story and there are components to do all sorts of legacy integration things, but it's not an easy framework to understand. In my experience, building a web app on Java teaches you how to wrangle app servers instead of how to build a web app. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 21:27:23 2008 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 16:27:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Booth design In-Reply-To: <407356.88549.qm-PUkK9LDfIAyB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <407356.88549.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1892.99.232.68.237.1199741243.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> For what it's worth, we recently went through a booth design exercise. The booth had to be 'air transportable' and inexpensive. We settled on three panels in the booth: two large banners on either side, showing promotional material. A third projection screen was between these two banners. The side banners are a flexible plastic sheet material. They were colour printed at Print 3 in Richmond Hill and then equipped with eyelets in the corners. (Banner printing cost varies enormously, these guys did a good job at a reasonable price.) We designed a wooden X frame using dowels that snapped into the eyelet holes and acted as a spreader to hold the banners flat. Then we simply hung these from the exhibit rear pipe. (Print 3 had stands, but they were $150 each and not exactly what we wanted.) The material and printing are surprisingly robust, apparently they can even be used outside. The centre panel was a 'darkout curtain' material that had been recommended for projection screens. We paid a seamstress to sew pockets into the edges of this material. Then we theaded plastic pipe into these pockets. The straight pipes popped into elbows in the corner, the pipes dimensioned so that the screen was kept tight and flat. We spray painted the bits of pipe that showed, to match the screen material. We used a couple of Ikea 4-way lighting fixtures on the floor to project light up on the side banners. I was advised that lighting is important and it did make a big improvement. A digital projector under the booth table projected on the centre screen. This whole thing with other stuff fit into an 'art carrying tube' from Curry's Art Store and a hockey bag from Canadian Tire. It cleared US customs no problem, travelled well and looked good on site. Dunno the cost total but it was a pittance compared to getting a profession booth constructed. Special credit goes to James Gaston who did the banner graphics, designed and built the 'spring frames' for the banners and set up a rehearsal site in his living room where we debugged the booth arrangement. If there is interest, I can dig out pictures of the booth at the conference. Peter > As previously noted there is talk going on inside the > executive regarding IT360. With that comes the > question of furnishing a booth on the cheap. > > The current design view boils down to some sort of > holder/frame at the back to hold up a backdrop + > posters. In front of that 1 - 2 folding table(s) > (covered and skirted in order to hold literature on > top and hide coats/spare supplies underneath). In > front of that 2 bar stools / bistro chairs for > volunteers to sit on (we want people even when sitting > to be at roughly eye height of visitors to the booth, > so, no regular chairs). > > Beyond that, carpeting would be very nice, but not > required. and nothing else... > > The closest thing to a controversy is centered around > the design of the back holder/frame. Question is, do > we want: > > - A T style holder where a center post holds out 2 > 4.75 foot hangers from which we hang our backdrop > material. > > - An upside down U frame with posts at each end > holding up a 9.5 foot pole across the back. > > Both ideas have a set of strengths and weaknesses. Key > point in my books is that we want a booth design that > can fold up and be dropped into the back of a small > car or in a pinch be hauled away by 4-5 volunteers on > the subway... > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 22:43:09 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 17:43:09 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <7ac602420801071308i56cae1d0w7c71c3902c538ac8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420801071308i56cae1d0w7c71c3902c538ac8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4782ab07.1138400a.6e94.3eea@mx.google.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Ian > Petersen > Sent: Monday 07 January 2008 16:09 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Debating web development toolsets > > I've used Ruby on Rails, PHP, Perl, and Java to build web > applications. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. > > Ruby on Rails is, generally, a well thought out platform. It makes > the right way easier than the wrong way, assuming the you agree with > the platform designers about what is the "right way". I started a > project in Rails and was generally enjoying it, but my take on > database design conflicts heavily with DHH's (David Heinemeier Hansson > is the primary author of Rails) and so we had to restart in a > different language. (The problem was that a single-column primary key > wasn't enough to model the data we cared about and I didn't want to do > referential integrity in the application.) For applications with a > simple database schema, Rails is a really good way to go--the code is > readable, the tools are useful and easy to use, and the community is > good. One potential problem is that the ruby interpreter is pretty > slow, but it's apparently easy to scale Rails applications by running > more servers. Definitely sounds like it's worth looking into, and specifically that I need to figure out if RoR fits the applications I have in mind. Of course, that would require figuring out the application itself, which will be at least half the challenge. Out of curiosity: if not in Ruby and I'm guessing not php, python, perl, or Java, what did you end up using? > I found PHP to be a horrendous language. It's obviously very popular, > the interpreter is apparently pretty fast, and the documentation is > very good, but I'll never voluntarily use the language again. It's > been too long to remember the details of why, but I just found the > whole language had a funny smell to it. >From the little bits of php I've looked at, it really does seem like a funny language. Maybe it's just a reflection of the hacked-together nature of the web itself, and I should just embrace it. I haven't made up my mind yet. It is comforting to know that I could find lots of support, as that will play an important role. > I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with Perl. You have to be > disciplined and make sure you keep your code readable when you write > in Perl. It _is_ the ultimate Swiss army knife, though. There's a > module on CPAN for just about every conceivable computing task and the > Perl interpreter is quite speedy. I think, with Perl, the big task is > finding the right tool for the task at hand. The rest is a Simple > Matter of Programming (TM). I think that if I'd learned Perl in my youth, it would either have been the best or worst move of my career. On the one hand, I really can do anything with it and like shell scripts it would be incredibly handy. On the other hand, I'd be tempted to write absolutely everything with it, which is really the opposite of good practice. > Java is just a beast. I'm struggling right now with a Java EE > application fronted by a GWT interface (GWT is the Google Web > Toolkit--it compiles Java source to Javascript for running in the > browser). It's taken me a long time to understand the ins and outs of > running an application inside an application server like JBoss. The > little things like the difference between a session bean, a persistent > bean, and a message-oriented bean are easy to understand, but > configuring the container to host your application is a twisty maze of > documentation, all alike. I think Java EE probably has a good > scalability story and there are components to do all sorts of legacy > integration things, but it's not an easy framework to understand. In > my experience, building a web app on Java teaches you how to wrangle > app servers instead of how to build a web app. Yup, this confirms everything I've heard about Java for the web. I have no interest in an elaborate setup. For all of the apps I'm looking at, it's more important that it be portable, maintainable, and flexible (hence my interest in agile techniques, whatever that means) which seems to be the opposite of Java. Thanks for sharing your experience Ian! -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 23:00:17 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 18:00:17 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20801071249k291bb058nef1af2af6621468d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20801071249k291bb058nef1af2af6621468d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4782af0b.112b400a.25fb.ffffb09d@mx.google.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Vegh > Sent: Monday 07 January 2008 15:50 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Debating web development toolsets > > I've taken some time to learn Rails, and have found it enforces a lot > of great coding practices, such as MVC. The limitations are that it > makes a lot of things easy, but the functionality that you want to > integrate becomes very hard. I like the idea of making good practices easier. Is it a good idea to learn design patterns first, or at least be familiar with them? I've been meaning to go through the Gang of Four book, but just haven't gotten to it. This may be the excuse I've been looking for to dive in. > I also think you'll find there are more PHP developers than any other > kind out there. It has broad support on any platform, has a very large > community behind it. From our previous discussion I can see that many > people think it's insecure, but again, with good coding practices you > can alleviate that point. I don't honestly think that it's hard to get > up to speed on. I can see that any application poorly coded will result in security problems, among other things. I've been working with manufacturing software (current buzzword is "MES") which tends to be written by people who really shouldn't be writing software at all, let alone complex system. That said, some of the best software ever was written in C with no security checks. It sounds like I'm going to have to get my hands dirty to really see what this is like. It also sounds like I'm going to have to be very careful with where I look for help. > > Ruby On Rails: If you believe the marketing hype, it'll do everything > > including walk the dog three times a day with one line of code. Is this > yet > > another web fad, or is RoR something worth pursuing? > > I definitely think it's worth pursuing. If I were starting out today > I'd probably be neck deep into Rails. It has a large community, and > there's no question that it's a legitimate environment. Rails isn't > going anywhere. Not to mention that learning Ruby will give you > leverage in other parts of your computing life, as it's a full-on > object oriented language. That's my big concern: in 5 years, will this platform still be well supported? I can deal with a learning experience, but I can't risk a full-out project with other people depending on its success with a weak platform - even if it's a Design Patterns Panacea. So are the rumours true, or are they just a few disgruntled troublemakers? > > Java: > > Bah. My thoughts exactly, but I just wanted to confirm my bias. > > ASP.NET: > > Double-bah! You can't seriously expect a good answer on this list. ;-) Meh... I'd like to think there are at least some people here not swayed by dogma either way. I personally think the core of .NET is actually really cool, and if it'd been written by anyone other than MS it would have gained much more acceptance. It's the CLR that really kills it. If the CLR were truly cross-platform, then it might have actually had a chance to be what Java had intended. But that's flamebait for another time. I have no intention of chaining myself to MS for web development. Even if I could probably turn the app out tomorrow, the maintenance would really suck. > > Python: > > Not familiar with this, but Python isn't exactly known for its > suitability for web app development. I haven't heard much about this, but thought I'd check. Apparently some people do use it for web apps, and claim some success. I was hoping to hear more about it. > > Perl: > > There are a number of rabid old school fans of Perl, but it's been > supplanted by PHP. Again, trying to separate the hype from substance. I remember growing up as the web gained maturity, and Perl really was everything. Of course, any Perl-monger will still insist that it's the only language worth considering, but that's a pretty biased view. > To my mind, your decision is really between PHP and Rails. You'll be > able to build fine applications with either one: you just need to > stick your toe in the water and get a feeling for which community is > right for you. Yea, with two languages I can at least try them out and see what I find. > Best of luck! Thanks, I'll need it! -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 23:26:37 2008 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 18:26:37 -0500 Subject: weird problem with Evolution email Message-ID: <1199748397.3209.9.camel@jims-laptop> Wondering if anyone can help me with a strange problem I'm having with evolution . It is version 2.12.1 and I'm on Kubuntu Gutsy. Sometimes when I try to delete a message more than one message gets deleted. It is as if I held down the delete key. Then I have to go into my trash and get the emails I haevn't read yet or want t keep. This has been happening for a while now and I can't figure out what is going on. I thought maybe it was a sticky key but I have another delete key on this keyboard and the same things happens with that key. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I haven't had any trouble with the delete key in other programs. Thanks, Jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 23:43:48 2008 From: myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 18:43:48 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1-ATjtLOhZ0NVl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> References: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: While where should I start: > PHP: The defacto web standard? It seems to be supported everywhere, > scales > well, and has lots of libraries, but can be difficult to maintain > and get up > to speed on. Ya it is a standard but can get a little annoying, also it is hard to apply the experiences to other projects i.e. GUI development. One major thing I really hate about PHP is the fact there are no namespaces. These are all the functions in php http://www.php.net/quickref.php . > Ruby On Rails: If you believe the marketing hype, it'll do everything > including walk the dog three times a day with one line of code. Is > this yet > another web fad, or is RoR something worth pursuing? I believed in the marketing hype and it made me stupid. When ever I had to leave the RoR environment it took a day to get back up to speed. I have been playing around with the Camping Framework http://code.whytheluckystiff.net/camping/ and it has been really cool. A nice simple framework to develop simple websites. > Java: Difficult to develop with, not widely supported, and high > hardware > requirements. Overall, sounds like an expensive PITA. It might be > good for > enterprise-level apps with coders immersed in java for 5+ years, but > not > good for smaller, quicker development-time apps. Java is nice but it requires allot of experience. > ASP.NET: Gotta at least look at the MS options. I know enough of > the .NET > framework that I could probably get up to speed really quickly, and > MS does > a pretty good job of making things easy. They also do a very bad > job of > making it flexible, scalable, or secure. Also locks in the platform > to > being MS-only. ASP.NET isn't really a language but a glorified template language you will have to use C#, J#, C++, IronPython, and VisualBasic. I gave a presentation on IronPython and ASP.NET at PyGTA a while ago: http://wiki.mylesbraithwaite.com/Presentations/2007/PyGTA-IronPython > Python: Don't know much about python beyond Mailman. Looks like a > decent > scripting language, can it do reports and interface mySQL well? Python is my favorite language of all time. I find it best for web development because of it's status. It can handle the enterprise-level apps and small websites. If you interested I would suggest taking a look at some web frameworks like Django, web.py, and TurboGears. > Perl: "The Original Web Language" and I know it has a rabid > following. The > whole world can be built in Perl, but is it the best way to go? I just started learning Perl to administer some static websites. It really matters what exactly you are developing. If you are developing a simple website i.e. a blog and some flatpages, I would suggest PHP or Perl. If you want a step high than that I would suggest RoR. If you are doing something a little more complicated I would suggest Python. If you have some money behind you Java and ASP.NET are the way to go. Hope any of that helped, if your coming to TLUG tomorrow we could discus further over beer. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 23:48:08 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 18:48:08 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <4782af0b.112b400a.25fb.ffffb09d-ATjtLOhZ0NVl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20801071249k291bb058nef1af2af6621468d@mail.gmail.com> <4782af0b.112b400a.25fb.ffffb09d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: In general, my feelings about various languages for web are similar to these of others around. Have in mind one factor yet when deciding what to use: how the language is usefull for other tasks as well, for, let say, administrative work, or other kinds of programming. I used perl for a decade. Am not very good in it but not a freshmen either. Now, I do not see much need to use it anymore. PHP can mostly do the same by using a code which is easier readable. But I do like perl for a lot of other tasks on the server, largely replacing other scripting languages. PHP is, in fact, an ugly languge, but most easy to learn and most popular. Security, an important factor, depends more on programmer, not on the language used. I wish I could know better Python, and may be I will learn it more. The reason is that it is pretty popular. Google for instance uses it, and that makes me wonder should I not spend more time on it. Thats another factor for considering. I did not hear yet strong, convincining evidence that Rubby, Java or .NET is worth of deep learning, and my first contacts with them were not pleasent. In particular, in case of Java for instance, it rejects me to learn how to work with new libraries. I would prefer rather to write libraries myself, but in case of Java there is no much choice in practice - we are exposed to learning again and again. In general, it is also very usefull to have a reasonable command of several programming languages. My experience with postgres, aquired last years, was very helpfull: that database can work with Perl, Java, Python, and many other languages, and that indeed gaved me a freedom to decide what I want to use, and when. Some things can be done, for instance, in Perl, some in Python, but each of them has certain limitations, - and you are free to choose. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 00:07:55 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:07:55 -0500 Subject: GTALug and IT360 In-Reply-To: <49e826e90801071228y21c1d270ude62d932a3df27cd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <379205.74837.qm@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20080107013307.GA3623@otter.int.linuxcaffe.ca> <49e826e90801071228y21c1d270ude62d932a3df27cd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4782BEDB.5010600@dinamis.com> Asaf Maruf wrote: > Wouldn't be a bad idea to show one of the following open source > virtualization software: > > 1. OpenVZ > 2. KVM > > Infact, OpenVZ is available as a Live CD and another live CD based on > Knoppix (VMKnoppix) can also be used to demonstrate the power of Linux > and open source. > > VMKnoppix can be downloaded from here: > http://lists.debian.org/debian-knoppix/2007/03/msg00011.html Xen is also open source and is mature enough that we have been using it in production since June 2005. There are commercial add-on components of Xen but we manage just fine without them. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 02:28:46 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 21:28:46 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20801071249k291bb058nef1af2af6621468d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1@mx.google.com> <4386c5b20801071249k291bb058nef1af2af6621468d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080108022846.GA9152@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Mon, Jan 07, 2008 at 03:49:32PM -0500, Aaron Vegh wrote: >> Python: > >Not familiar with this, but Python isn't exactly known for its >suitability for web app development. This is not actually true. Python has an excellent pedigree as a web language, as a basic CGI language and using using mod_python. Additionally, there are several 1st-tier web frameworks to choose from - Zope/Plone, Django, TurboGears, pylons, cherrypy and others. The Python community is generally warm and welcoming and the language itself is lovely. >> Perl: > >There are a number of rabid old school fans of Perl, but it's been >supplanted by PHP. The demise of Perl has been greatly exaggerated, and PHP is a poor replacement for applications of any significant complexity. While it is famously possible to write unreadable, unmaintainable code in Perl, in PHP it is almost a necessity. There are several first-rate web frameworks in Perl, such as Catalyst and Mason. Amazon and Slashdot (and large chunks of the world's electronic banking) run on Perl for a reason. In short, if you want to go from zero to "Hello world!" in the shortest possible time, use PHP. If you want a great general-purpose language that works beautifully on the web, I would recommend Python. Good luck, and ask for help when/if you get stuck. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 02:41:12 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 21:41:12 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4782e2cb.0e38400a.1d55.73a8@mx.google.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Myles > Braithwaite > Sent: Monday 07 January 2008 18:44 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Debating web development toolsets > > I believed in the marketing hype and it made me stupid. When ever I > had to leave the > RoR environment it took a day to get back up to speed. Is that good stupid or bad stupid? Seriously, I've hit the same thing going from microcontroller code to C++ or Java a few times and back, and the difference in mindset felt like shifting half a dozen gears. If it simply makes life easier, then I'm all for it. > ASP.NET isn't really a language but a glorified template language you > will have > to use C#, J#, C++, IronPython, and VisualBasic. I gave a presentation > on IronPython > and ASP.NET at PyGTA a while ago: > http://wiki.mylesbraithwaite.com/Presentations/2007/PyGTA-IronPython That's pretty cool, I didn't know you could use Python in ASP. Not quite a reason to jump onto ASP, but neat nevertheless. > > Python: Don't know much about python beyond Mailman. Looks like a > > decent > > scripting language, can it do reports and interface mySQL well? > > Python is my favorite language of all time. I find it best for web > development because > of it's status. It can handle the enterprise-level apps and small > websites. That's pretty much what I'm looking for: something that can start small and grow big, with solid support. How well does it interface databases? > If you interested I would suggest taking a look at some web frameworks > like Django, > web.py, and TurboGears. TurboGears looks like it could be pretty good. How does it compare to RoR? > It really matters what exactly you are developing. If you are > developing a simple website > i.e. a blog and some flatpages, I would suggest PHP or Perl. If you > want a step high than that > I would suggest RoR. If you are doing something a little more > complicated I would suggest > Python. If you have some money behind you Java and ASP.NET are the way > to go. This suggests to me that I should look at RoR or Python. I suppose the question becomes: which one does the better job of making database-driven sites and reporting easiest, since that will be the bulk of the sites I work with. > Hope any of that helped, if your coming to TLUG tomorrow we could > discus further over beer. Definitely! Thanks for the ideas. I may or may not be able to make it out tomorrow, it depends entirely on how long things run in the afternoon/evening. Cheers, -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 02:54:28 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 21:54:28 -0500 Subject: weird problem with Evolution email In-Reply-To: <1199748397.3209.9.camel@jims-laptop> References: <1199748397.3209.9.camel@jims-laptop> Message-ID: <4782e5e9.0f2b400a.3f88.ffff888b@mx.google.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of jim ruxton > Sent: Monday 07 January 2008 18:27 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: weird problem with Evolution email > > Wondering if anyone can help me with a strange problem I'm having with > evolution . It is version 2.12.1 and I'm on Kubuntu Gutsy. Sometimes > when I try to delete a message more than one message gets deleted. It is > as if I held down the delete key. Then I have to go into my trash and > get the emails I haevn't read yet or want t keep. This has been > happening for a while now and I can't figure out what is going on. I > thought maybe it was a sticky key but I have another delete key on this > keyboard and the same things happens with that key. Anyone have any > thoughts on this? I haven't had any trouble with the delete key in other > programs. I haven't run into that one myself, running evolution on Kubuntu (not sure which version, it's not handy at the moment). Possible debugging step: have you tried deleting messages with the mouse instead? Might narrow it down from a keyboard problem to an application problem. -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 03:05:24 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 22:05:24 -0500 Subject: OT:Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1-ATjtLOhZ0NVl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> References: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4782e87a.0443400a.765f.6d9d@mx.google.com> My search has reached fruition. LOLCODE for teh win! http://lolcode.com/ Just had to add some levity. Anyone who can read that entire page without throwing up or gauging out their own eyeballs gets 10 points. Still debating between Ruby, Python, and PHP, but at least I now have something to go on. KTHXBYE! -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 03:26:55 2008 From: myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 22:26:55 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <4782e2cb.0e38400a.1d55.73a8-ATjtLOhZ0NVl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> References: <4782e2cb.0e38400a.1d55.73a8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7537C4F0-2E11-49A0-A43A-D43F0E00E53C@monkeyinyoursoul.com> >> I believed in the marketing hype and it made me stupid. When ever I >> had to leave the >> RoR environment it took a day to get back up to speed. > > Is that good stupid or bad stupid? Seriously, I've hit the same > thing going > from microcontroller code to C++ or Java a few times and back, and the > difference in mindset felt like shifting half a dozen gears. If it > simply > makes life easier, then I'm all for it. Bad stupid. If you want to learn about web development stay far away from RoR. >> ASP.NET isn't really a language but a glorified template language you >> will have >> to use C#, J#, C++, IronPython, and VisualBasic. I gave a >> presentation >> on IronPython >> and ASP.NET at PyGTA a while ago: >> http://wiki.mylesbraithwaite.com/Presentations/2007/PyGTA-IronPython > > That's pretty cool, I didn't know you could use Python in ASP. Not > quite a > reason to jump onto ASP, but neat nevertheless. >>> Python: Don't know much about python beyond Mailman. Looks like a >>> decent >>> scripting language, can it do reports and interface mySQL well? >> >> Python is my favorite language of all time. I find it best for web >> development because >> of it's status. It can handle the enterprise-level apps and small >> websites. > > That's pretty much what I'm looking for: something that can start > small and > grow big, with solid support. How well does it interface databases? Python has great support for databases. >> If you interested I would suggest taking a look at some web >> frameworks >> like Django, >> web.py, and TurboGears. > > TurboGears looks like it could be pretty good. How does it compare > to RoR? I wouldn't compare TurboGears to RoR, Django is more like RoR. TurboGears is a package of some python software. >> It really matters what exactly you are developing. If you are >> developing a simple website >> i.e. a blog and some flatpages, I would suggest PHP or Perl. If you >> want a step high than that >> I would suggest RoR. If you are doing something a little more >> complicated I would suggest >> Python. If you have some money behind you Java and ASP.NET are the >> way >> to go. > > This suggests to me that I should look at RoR or Python. I suppose > the > question becomes: which one does the better job of making database- > driven > sites and reporting easiest, since that will be the bulk of the > sites I work > with. Python is more mature language so it might have more support for databases. For a database-driven site I would suggest steering away from RoR and move towards Python. How skilled are you in SQL? If you have been doing it for years then you might want to move fully away from RoR. If you don't know allot of SQL and it is your biggest handicap (like me) I would suggest a Web Framework like RoR, Django, TurboGears, etc. >> Hope any of that helped, if your coming to TLUG tomorrow we could >> discus further over beer. > > Definitely! Thanks for the ideas. I may or may not be able to make > it out > tomorrow, it depends entirely on how long things run in the > afternoon/evening. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 03:38:06 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 22:38:06 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <7537C4F0-2E11-49A0-A43A-D43F0E00E53C-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <7537C4F0-2E11-49A0-A43A-D43F0E00E53C@monkeyinyoursoul.com> Message-ID: <4782f027.051e400a.7145.ffff9e57@mx.google.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Myles > Braithwaite > Sent: Monday 07 January 2008 22:27 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Debating web development toolsets > > >> I believed in the marketing hype and it made me stupid. When ever I > >> had to leave the > >> RoR environment it took a day to get back up to speed. > > > > Is that good stupid or bad stupid? Seriously, I've hit the same > > thing going > > from microcontroller code to C++ or Java a few times and back, and the > > difference in mindset felt like shifting half a dozen gears. If it > > simply > > makes life easier, then I'm all for it. > > Bad stupid. If you want to learn about web development stay far away > from RoR. Much as I like to learn, I'm most interested in seeing the sites run. Point taken though, RoR sounds like it might just be too easy. > Python is more mature language so it might have more support for > databases. > > For a database-driven site I would suggest steering away from RoR and > move > towards Python. How skilled are you in SQL? If you have been doing it > for years > then you might want to move fully away from RoR. If you don't know > allot of SQL > and it is your biggest handicap (like me) I would suggest a Web > Framework > like RoR, Django, TurboGears, etc. I've done a fair bit of SQL and I'm pretty good at it, but that doesn't mean I want to write more of it. My last project involved Oracle, and that showed me what a DBA really does, and just how badly I don't want to go there as a career! A good stored procedure can greatly improve efficiency, but writing SQL queries for everything really sucks (as is required un Oracle world *shudder*). Is it possible to start with a framework and extend past it? I'm thinking that perhaps starting with RoR and then adding reporting and features that go beyond the framework might be an idea. I heard at a talk a year or two ago that the best forms of abstraction cover 90% of the common cases, but allow exceptions to be coded just as easily. I believe the talk focused on code generation. Is that applicable here? Thanks again for all of the input! -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 03:53:42 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 22:53:42 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <7537C4F0-2E11-49A0-A43A-D43F0E00E53C-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <4782e2cb.0e38400a.1d55.73a8@mx.google.com> <7537C4F0-2E11-49A0-A43A-D43F0E00E53C@monkeyinyoursoul.com> Message-ID: On Jan 7, 2008 10:26 PM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > >> I believed in the marketing hype and it made me stupid. When ever I > >> had to leave the > >> RoR environment it took a day to get back up to speed. > > > > Is that good stupid or bad stupid? Seriously, I've hit the same > > thing going > > from microcontroller code to C++ or Java a few times and back, and the > > difference in mindset felt like shifting half a dozen gears. If it > > simply > > makes life easier, then I'm all for it. > > Bad stupid. If you want to learn about web development stay far away > from RoR. 100% agreed. All reports I see are that RoR defines a data access model that pretty much precludes any sort of "managed version migration." > >> ASP.NET isn't really a language but a glorified template language you > >> will have > >> to use C#, J#, C++, IronPython, and VisualBasic. I gave a > >> presentation > >> on IronPython > >> and ASP.NET at PyGTA a while ago: > >> http://wiki.mylesbraithwaite.com/Presentations/2007/PyGTA-IronPython > > > > That's pretty cool, I didn't know you could use Python in ASP. Not > > quite a > > reason to jump onto ASP, but neat nevertheless. > > >>> Python: Don't know much about python beyond Mailman. Looks like a > >>> decent > >>> scripting language, can it do reports and interface mySQL well? > >> > >> Python is my favorite language of all time. I find it best for web > >> development because > >> of it's status. It can handle the enterprise-level apps and small > >> websites. > > > > That's pretty much what I'm looking for: something that can start > > small and > > grow big, with solid support. How well does it interface databases? > > Python has great support for databases. Absolutely. They've got APIs to pretty well any database you should be considering. > >> If you interested I would suggest taking a look at some web > >> frameworks > >> like Django, > >> web.py, and TurboGears. > > > > TurboGears looks like it could be pretty good. How does it compare > > to RoR? > > I wouldn't compare TurboGears to RoR, Django is more like RoR. > TurboGears is a > package of some python software. > > >> It really matters what exactly you are developing. If you are > >> developing a simple website > >> i.e. a blog and some flatpages, I would suggest PHP or Perl. If you > >> want a step high than that > >> I would suggest RoR. If you are doing something a little more > >> complicated I would suggest > >> Python. If you have some money behind you Java and ASP.NET are the > >> way > >> to go. > > > > This suggests to me that I should look at RoR or Python. I suppose > > the > > question becomes: which one does the better job of making database- > > driven > > sites and reporting easiest, since that will be the bulk of the > > sites I work > > with. > > Python is more mature language so it might have more support for > databases. > > For a database-driven site I would suggest steering away from RoR and > move > towards Python. How skilled are you in SQL? If you have been doing it > for years > then you might want to move fully away from RoR. If you don't know > allot of SQL > and it is your biggest handicap (like me) I would suggest a Web > Framework > like RoR, Django, TurboGears, etc. For a really different view on things, I'd suggest taking a peek at the Andromeda Project. http://www.andromeda-project.org/ I'm not sure how usable it is, at this point; the notion of it is to have a large portion of the code that you write represent declarations describing business rules, as opposed to the frequent alternatives of: a) Business rules being defined in an ad-hoc fashion mixed in with GUI widget code (One might think this couldn't scale; the Germans have gotten it to, as that's how SAP R/3 was implemented...) b) Business rules being defined within a "business layer API" which may or may not always actually get used c) As declarations in the DBMS Somehow, the notion of starting out by implementing in PHP doesn't fill me with confidence in the likely results, but I'd rather see more experiments like Andromeda out there; people might learn something from them... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 04:45:50 2008 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 23:45:50 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1-ATjtLOhZ0NVl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> References: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4782FFFE.7020005@rogers.com> Kareem Shehata wrote: > I'm still wrestling with the problem of choosing a good language for web > development projects. As I mentioned previously, I'm looking to get into > some web development this year, but have no idea where to start. You should consider "Seaside" (http://www.seaside.st). One recent convert is Randal Schwartz (of Perl fame). Check out his recent blog: http://merlyn.vox.com/explore/family/tags/seaside/ There's lots of activity going on (and url's), but one place to start is: http://news.squeak.org/2007/11/10/seaside-one-click-experience/ -- Yanni Chiu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 05:05:37 2008 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 00:05:37 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <7ac602420801071308i56cae1d0w7c71c3902c538ac8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1@mx.google.com> <7ac602420801071308i56cae1d0w7c71c3902c538ac8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200801080005.37228.amarjan@pobox.com> On January 7, 2008 04:08:45 pm Ian Petersen wrote: > > Java is just a beast. I'm struggling right now with a Java EE > application fronted by a GWT interface (GWT is the Google Web > Toolkit--it compiles Java source to Javascript for running in the > browser). It's taken me a long time to understand the ins and outs of > running an application inside an application server like JBoss. The > little things like the difference between a session bean, a persistent > bean, and a message-oriented bean are easy to understand, but > configuring the container to host your application is a twisty maze of > documentation, all alike. I think Java EE probably has a good > scalability story and there are components to do all sorts of legacy > integration things, but it's not an easy framework to understand. In > my experience, building a web app on Java teaches you how to wrangle > app servers instead of how to build a web app. I think this is an important criterion when thinking about greenfield projects: the deployment model. Java's deployment model runs from sort of OK (pure JSP on tomcat, but that's so ugly you may as well write in PHP or something) to sacrificing virgins (WebSphere). Also, many Java frameworks seem to be written by and for Java developers who are afraid of the web and who want to pretend they're living in middleware-land where they can happily ignore the realities of HTTP, URLs, etc. Most Java web people I've met are either ignorant of or very hostile to REST. PHP's deployment model is a dream (in contrast to the language itself ;). Rails is a pretty nice framework, but its deployment story is not so nice. At least, not so nice if you need to run many small apps on a single server. Python: no definitive model -- everything from CGI to standalone app server, depending on preference/framework/etc. ASP.NET: pretty easy on Windows, no idea about Mono + Apache. If you use the built-in webforms GUI library, then the development model is actually pretty nice for a certain class of apps, IFF you use Visual Studio. Otherwise I think it'd be quite painful. People have used the low level plumbing of ASP.NET and written their own GUI libraries on top. For instance, govtrack.us runs on Mono and a custom XSLT-based framework that replaces webforms. There are also Rails-like MVC and ActiveRecord libraries for .NET out there, but I don't know if they run on Mono. As an aside, aren't there other Ruby web frameworks out there, besides Rails? Does anyone use those? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 06:58:34 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 01:58:34 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: References: <4782e2cb.0e38400a.1d55.73a8@mx.google.com> <7537C4F0-2E11-49A0-A43A-D43F0E00E53C@monkeyinyoursoul.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420801072258w49308c99j50296c39f839e304@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 7, 2008 10:53 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > 100% agreed. > > All reports I see are that RoR defines a data access model that pretty > much precludes any sort of "managed version migration." I wonder if you could expand on that. One of the coolest things that Rails brings to the table is database migrations. Basically, you write a little script that has an "up" method and a "down" method for each change that you make to the db. To bring the db up to date, you just do "rake migrate", or something. (For those not in the know, rake is a make-like tool written in Ruby--might be worth checking out next time you get bitten by a tab-that's-not-a-tab.) The migration scripts can be as simple as table creation statements, but they're written in Ruby so if you need to do backflips to get your db from version n to n + 1, you have a Turing-complete language at your disposal with which to do the flips. I guess what I'm saying is, either you mean something else by "managed version migration", or the reports you read have misunderstood one of Rails' strengths. On the other hand, maybe you're talking about the fact that ActiveRecord assumes that all db records have an auto-incrementing integer as the primary key. This can be worked around, so long as the true primary key is only one column wide--otherwise you're SOL. If that's what you mean, then I agree--DHH has some strange opinions on database design. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 14:24:53 2008 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 09:24:53 -0500 Subject: Falling Leaf closes Message-ID: <1e55af990801080624t774057c8m9af07d78bf4985bc@mail.gmail.com> http://www.fallingleafsystems.com/ Some time ago I donated to these guys in the hopes of being able to play certain games under Linux. Well, it'd look like a complete scam but for the fact that they open sourced their work to date. I wonder if anyone'll pick it up and run with it.. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Cody Brocious Date: Jan 7, 2008 3:46 AM Subject: [alkyproject-announce] End of an era To: alkyproject-announce-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw at public.gmane.org It is with great sadness that I announce the closing of Falling Leaf Systems, LLC. We set out over a year ago to provide users of both "old and unsupported" as well as "alternative" Operating Systems the ability to run the latest games for the PC. Unfortunately, Falling Leaf Systems was unable to achieve that goal. However, every ending tends to open another door for opportunity and though we are saddened to announce our departure, we are almost as excited to announce the immediate availability of ALL source code for the Alky Project! It is licensed under the LGPL and includes both the orginal Alky Converter source used to convert the popular Prey Demo to run on OSX and Linux, as well as the alpha release of the Alky Compatibility Libraries which attempted to provide a DirectX10 compatible runtime for Windows XP. All of this is available at http://www.fallingleafsystems.com/ We have also created some new forums on the site for users to discuss the coming cycle of DirectX 10 based games. We hope that you'll pop in there from time to time, and we also hope you join our mailing list to receive an announcement in case some other Open Source project decides to carry on the Alky banner. We appreciate all your past support; Happy gaming! --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Alky Project Announcements" group. To post to this group, send email to alkyproject-announce-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw at public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to alkyproject-announce-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw at public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/alkyproject-announce?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 14:34:50 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 09:34:50 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <7ac602420801072258w49308c99j50296c39f839e304-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4782e2cb.0e38400a.1d55.73a8@mx.google.com> <7537C4F0-2E11-49A0-A43A-D43F0E00E53C@monkeyinyoursoul.com> <7ac602420801072258w49308c99j50296c39f839e304@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jan 8, 2008 1:58 AM, Ian Petersen wrote: > On Jan 7, 2008 10:53 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > > 100% agreed. > > > > All reports I see are that RoR defines a data access model that pretty > > much precludes any sort of "managed version migration." > > I wonder if you could expand on that. One of the coolest things that > Rails brings to the table is database migrations. Basically, you > write a little script that has an "up" method and a "down" method for > each change that you make to the db. To bring the db up to date, you > just do "rake migrate", or something. (For those not in the know, > rake is a make-like tool written in Ruby--might be worth checking out > next time you get bitten by a tab-that's-not-a-tab.) The migration > scripts can be as simple as table creation statements, but they're > written in Ruby so if you need to do backflips to get your db from > version n to n + 1, you have a Turing-complete language at your > disposal with which to do the flips. > > I guess what I'm saying is, either you mean something else by "managed > version migration", or the reports you read have misunderstood one of > Rails' strengths. On the other hand, maybe you're talking about the > fact that ActiveRecord assumes that all db records have an > auto-incrementing integer as the primary key. This can be worked > around, so long as the true primary key is only one column > wide--otherwise you're SOL. If that's what you mean, then I > agree--DHH has some strange opinions on database design. The trouble is that sometimes you have extra things going on, such as database replication. What I hear is that if you are using such, you pretty much have to turn it off when doing a RoR application upgrade that might have any impact on the database schema, as RoR wants to go in and make schema changes as It likes, on Its schedule. If there's *any* reason (like that) why you'd want to keep schema changes under sorts of control that don't fall into how RoR operates, evidently disappointment lingers in the wings... Well, and the whole "who would ever actually need a composite primary key?" thing nicely demonstrates both: a) Lack of forethought, and b) Lack of willingness to listen The former flaw isn't individually fatal, but when combined together, they spell "doom" to me. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 15:39:27 2008 From: myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 10:39:27 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: References: <4782e2cb.0e38400a.1d55.73a8@mx.google.com> <7537C4F0-2E11-49A0-A43A-D43F0E00E53C@monkeyinyoursoul.com> <7ac602420801072258w49308c99j50296c39f839e304@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2D36B1D0-AC71-4F4C-AFBA-66211BBEE1B4@monkeyinyoursoul.com> The Rails database migration is only really good in development pass that you are doing SQL commands on your production. On 8-Jan-08, at 9:34 AM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Jan 8, 2008 1:58 AM, Ian Petersen wrote: >> On Jan 7, 2008 10:53 PM, Christopher Browne >> wrote: >>> 100% agreed. >>> >>> All reports I see are that RoR defines a data access model that >>> pretty >>> much precludes any sort of "managed version migration." >> >> I wonder if you could expand on that. One of the coolest things that >> Rails brings to the table is database migrations. Basically, you >> write a little script that has an "up" method and a "down" method for >> each change that you make to the db. To bring the db up to date, you >> just do "rake migrate", or something. (For those not in the know, >> rake is a make-like tool written in Ruby--might be worth checking out >> next time you get bitten by a tab-that's-not-a-tab.) The migration >> scripts can be as simple as table creation statements, but they're >> written in Ruby so if you need to do backflips to get your db from >> version n to n + 1, you have a Turing-complete language at your >> disposal with which to do the flips. >> >> I guess what I'm saying is, either you mean something else by >> "managed >> version migration", or the reports you read have misunderstood one of >> Rails' strengths. On the other hand, maybe you're talking about the >> fact that ActiveRecord assumes that all db records have an >> auto-incrementing integer as the primary key. This can be worked >> around, so long as the true primary key is only one column >> wide--otherwise you're SOL. If that's what you mean, then I >> agree--DHH has some strange opinions on database design. > > The trouble is that sometimes you have extra things going on, such as > database replication. > > What I hear is that if you are using such, you pretty much have to > turn it off when doing a RoR application upgrade that might have any > impact on the database schema, as RoR wants to go in and make schema > changes as It likes, on Its schedule. > > If there's *any* reason (like that) why you'd want to keep schema > changes under sorts of control that don't fall into how RoR operates, > evidently disappointment lingers in the wings... > > Well, and the whole "who would ever actually need a composite primary > key?" thing nicely demonstrates both: > a) Lack of forethought, and > b) Lack of willingness to listen > > The former flaw isn't individually fatal, but when combined together, > they spell "doom" to me. > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and > expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert > Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 20:32:34 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 15:32:34 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4783dde0.132b400a.72da.350f@mx.google.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of > Christopher Browne > Sent: Monday 07 January 2008 22:54 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Debating web development toolsets > > On Jan 7, 2008 10:26 PM, Myles Braithwaite > wrote: > > Bad stupid. If you want to learn about web development stay far away > > from RoR. > > 100% agreed. > > All reports I see are that RoR defines a data access model that pretty > much precludes any sort of "managed version migration." The more I hear, the more I'm starting to think that RoR is great for developing "the typical website" but falls flat as soon as you go outside what it was designed for. > > > That's pretty much what I'm looking for: something that can start > > > small and > > > grow big, with solid support. How well does it interface databases? > > > > Python has great support for databases. > > Absolutely. They've got APIs to pretty well any database you should > be considering. That's promising. How easy is it to generate a PDF report in python? Much as I hated Crystal Reports for its flakyness, I have to admit they made producing simple reports really easy. > For a really different view on things, I'd suggest taking a peek at > the Andromeda Project. > > http://www.andromeda-project.org/ > > I'm not sure how usable it is, at this point; the notion of it is to > have a large portion of the code that you write represent declarations > describing business rules, as opposed to the frequent alternatives of: > > a) Business rules being defined in an ad-hoc fashion mixed in with > GUI widget code > > (One might think this couldn't scale; the Germans have gotten it > to, as that's how SAP R/3 was implemented...) > > b) Business rules being defined within a "business layer API" which > may or may not always actually get used > > c) As declarations in the DBMS > > Somehow, the notion of starting out by implementing in PHP doesn't > fill me with confidence in the likely results, but I'd rather see more > experiments like Andromeda out there; people might learn something > from them... Wow, that is a really cool idea! If it were more established, I would consider it, but it's too young for this project. Thanks, -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 20:41:49 2008 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 15:41:49 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <4783dde0.132b400a.72da.350f-ATjtLOhZ0NVl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> References: <4783dde0.132b400a.72da.350f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: f you're really interested in an enterprise version of RoR check out grails www.grails.org The site is experiencing some issues right now, but it was built on RoR ;) (not by the authors of grails) Basically use all of the good parts of Rails on top of java. The benefit of course is lots of prebuilt working code from the java world. And people who listen. They do support composite keys ;) Dave On 8-Jan-08, at 3:32 PM, Kareem Shehata wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of >> Christopher Browne >> Sent: Monday 07 January 2008 22:54 >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Debating web development toolsets >> >> On Jan 7, 2008 10:26 PM, Myles Braithwaite > > >> wrote: >>> Bad stupid. If you want to learn about web development stay far away >>> from RoR. >> >> 100% agreed. >> >> All reports I see are that RoR defines a data access model that >> pretty >> much precludes any sort of "managed version migration." > > The more I hear, the more I'm starting to think that RoR is great for > developing "the typical website" but falls flat as soon as you go > outside > what it was designed for. > >>>> That's pretty much what I'm looking for: something that can start >>>> small and >>>> grow big, with solid support. How well does it interface >>>> databases? >>> >>> Python has great support for databases. >> >> Absolutely. They've got APIs to pretty well any database you should >> be considering. > > That's promising. How easy is it to generate a PDF report in > python? Much > as I hated Crystal Reports for its flakyness, I have to admit they > made > producing simple reports really easy. > >> For a really different view on things, I'd suggest taking a peek at >> the Andromeda Project. >> >> http://www.andromeda-project.org/ >> >> I'm not sure how usable it is, at this point; the notion of it is to >> have a large portion of the code that you write represent >> declarations >> describing business rules, as opposed to the frequent alternatives >> of: >> >> a) Business rules being defined in an ad-hoc fashion mixed in with >> GUI widget code >> >> (One might think this couldn't scale; the Germans have gotten it >> to, as that's how SAP R/3 was implemented...) >> >> b) Business rules being defined within a "business layer API" which >> may or may not always actually get used >> >> c) As declarations in the DBMS >> >> Somehow, the notion of starting out by implementing in PHP doesn't >> fill me with confidence in the likely results, but I'd rather see >> more >> experiments like Andromeda out there; people might learn something >> from them... > > Wow, that is a really cool idea! If it were more established, I would > consider it, but it's too young for this project. > > Thanks, > > -kms > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 21:17:47 2008 From: spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (R.T.) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 16:17:47 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: References: <4783dde0.132b400a.72da.350f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Christopher, Dave: Adding composite primary keys to ActiveRecord in Rails is trivial, "gem install composite_primary_keys". http://compositekeys.rubyforge.org/ Kareem: You may have a happier experience if you look at Ruby, the _language_, prior to Rails, the _framework_. Much like you would look at PHP prior to CakePHP, Perl prior to Catalyst, or Python prior to Django. http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/ http://qa.poignantguide.net/ Then you'll be equipped to choose from any number of Ruby-based frameworks: http://code.whytheluckystiff.net/camping/ http://merbivore.com/ http://sinatra.rubyforge.org/ You can get help on irc.freenode.net in #ruby-lang, #rubyonrails, #trug, and there's also 1:1 mentoring: http://rubymentor.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl As for your PDF exporting needs, Ruby's PDF::Writer was created by a Torontonian Rubyist, Austin Ziegler. http://ruby-pdf.rubyforge.org/pdf-writer/index.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 22:29:06 2008 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 17:29:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: Debating web development toolsetsy In-Reply-To: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1-ATjtLOhZ0NVl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> References: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Jan 2008, Kareem Shehata wrote: > I'm still wrestling with the problem of choosing a good language for web > development projects. As I mentioned previously, I'm looking to get into > some web development this year, but have no idea where to start. For anything that HTML and CSS cannot handle, I use shell scripts. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 22:40:23 2008 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 17:40:23 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: References: <4783dde0.132b400a.72da.350f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I think Chris' point is the mentality of the developers. If you want to read an interesting revelations on RoR http://www.zedshaw.com/rants/rails_is_a_ghetto.html particularly interesting is DHH having to restart ~400 times a day the signature app. Dave On 8-Jan-08, at 4:17 PM, R.T. wrote: > Christopher, Dave: Adding composite primary keys to ActiveRecord in > Rails is trivial, "gem install composite_primary_keys". > http://compositekeys.rubyforge.org/ > > Kareem: You may have a happier experience if you look at Ruby, the > _language_, prior to Rails, the _framework_. Much like you would look > at PHP prior to CakePHP, Perl prior to Catalyst, or Python prior to > Django. > http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/ > http://qa.poignantguide.net/ > > Then you'll be equipped to choose from any number of Ruby-based > frameworks: > http://code.whytheluckystiff.net/camping/ > http://merbivore.com/ > http://sinatra.rubyforge.org/ > > You can get help on irc.freenode.net in #ruby-lang, #rubyonrails, > #trug, and there's also 1:1 mentoring: > http://rubymentor.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl > > As for your PDF exporting needs, Ruby's PDF::Writer was created by a > Torontonian Rubyist, Austin Ziegler. > http://ruby-pdf.rubyforge.org/pdf-writer/index.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 22:43:42 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:43:42 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: References: <4783dde0.132b400a.72da.350f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4783FC9E.5080502@utoronto.ca> Dave Cramer wrote: > f you're really interested in an enterprise version of RoR check out grails > > www.grails.org > > The site is experiencing some issues right now, but it was built on RoR > ;) (not by the authors of grails) > > Basically use all of the good parts of Rails on top of java. The benefit > of course is lots of prebuilt working code from the java world. > > And people who listen. They do support composite keys ;) I was just chatting with a developer today who showed me Grails and Groovy. Grails isn't related to Ruby or Rails though, perhaps in spirit, but not in terms of code. Still, I had a test webapp running in 5 minutes with a few simple objects that I could add/remove. I am not a programmer and I found it very easy to get started with. From the Grails README: "Grails is a web based application framework based on the Groovy language that endorses the DRY (don't repeat yourself) and coding-by-convention philosophies. Grails runs on the Java Virtual Machine and thus has access to the entire Java Platform. With Grails you can easily create web applications thanks to: - a complete development and deployment environment. All dependencies and configuration that is required to the run Grails applications in a web server are provided by Grails. The only thing you have to worry about is your application code. - inclusion of an embedded Jetty web server Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 02:21:22 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 21:21:22 -0500 Subject: Emergency exit from X to tty1 In-Reply-To: <20071222040057.GA8290-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20071219231456.GB7517@waltdnes.org> <476A0B46.6060902@utoronto.ca> <476A0C5E.5030501@utoronto.ca> <473c25250712200512v1d5bd0a3x2bb6c45b8a1645cf@mail.gmail.com> <476A7C58.7000904@telly.org> <20071220235737.GA12990@waltdnes.org> <20071221144536.GQ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071222040057.GA8290@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20080109022122.GT2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Dec 21, 2007 at 11:00:57PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > No, not at the back. If you count the (usually) black rocker switch, > that makes it 3. On the *FRONT* of your PC, you should see 2 buttons. > The large one is the soft shutdown, controllable by ACPI. The other > (hardware reset) one is deliberately small, so that you don't accidently > click it when looking for the other button. So ACPI power, and reset (doesn't turn power off). So there is no hardware power switch on the front. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 02:24:02 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 21:24:02 -0500 Subject: Why Eee? In-Reply-To: <473c25250712230419s4fa010bdw3c91a1fcf6bffdad-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280712190734j585f4fe7w909563d8b37debcc@mail.gmail.com> <20071219162129.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <473c25250712230419s4fa010bdw3c91a1fcf6bffdad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080109022402.GU2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Dec 23, 2007 at 07:19:25AM -0500, Brandon Sandrowicz wrote: > So far as I understand it a lot of Atheros chips are supported very > well. To the point that you can even run wireless attack tools on > them (passive scanning, packet injection, etc). And I've heard > second-hand reports that the Atheros chips are able to get better > reception than the Intel chips. So far as I know Atheros and Intel > are the only well-supported wireless chips on Linux (I'm discounting > older 802.11b-only chips like the orinoco chips here). The > alternative would be a broadcom chip (like Apple just did when they > released the latest update to the MacBook... used to have an Atheros > chip, now it's a broadcom with the only support being through > ndiswrapper) ralink chips are well supported too. Old atheros chips were supported, but when they went to a software radio support became awful. ralink and intel seem to be the only ones that release GPLd drivers for their chips. I would never recommend any other wifi chips to anyone at this time. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 02:32:52 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 21:32:52 -0500 Subject: All I want for x-mas is :: no more sound card is in use errors! In-Reply-To: <20071224200938.2f89a027.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20071224200938.2f89a027.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20080109023252.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Dec 24, 2007 at 08:09:38PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > It am almost getting to the point where I can't find any issue with new shiny > Gutsy install. It dual monitors great with Nvidia card, > plays just about any multimedia I throw at it (well except a bluray i tried, sound got out of > sync pretty bad), etc,etc. > > One problem I have, and have had in the past with other distro's is that > some process will be using the sound card in a way that other processes > get blocked. > I know at times in the past I was able to have flash (in browser) share with amarok, etc, > but there is always some combination that doesn't work. > In Gutsy, I have had no better luck. > > Does anyone have a linux configured that > can have a flash plugin, music player, real player, and especially vmware > (and the virtual OS in the vmware using sound) all co-existing happily? > All technically playing at once, as bad as it might sound. > Or is this not possible? > The exact case in point is, the firefox flash plugin seems to grab and keep the sound card, > even when nothing is playing, i'd like to listen to a podcast on amarok, listen to the odd > wmv voice file in my email (company does VM this way) and then get sound from > another linux (or rarely a windows image) in vmware - > doing all this, without having to selectively shutdown certain apps. > Keep in mind that N number of things might "have" the sound card, > but only one is actually producing audio at a time (or perhaps a slight over lap, > i.e. listening to podcast, and hearing a v-mail) the rest might be in a 0-volume > or pause state, etc. and I just don't want to have to shut stuff off just > so one thing can get its turn to produce sound. > > I am hoping there is some sound/audio driver that can do this. > > Here's hoping someone delivers this x-mas wish to me! > > I don't recall getting this in MS windows, but it been so long I am not sure, > and as of 1-2 years ago, don't recall getting this on my MacOSX either, > but maybe I never tried to much multiplexing, and I certainly never had the VMWARE > part in the mix on these. > > Right now I am just using stock ubuntu gutsy's default sound drivers (and setup). > For sure I know that mplayer and vmware don't play nice together, and flash plugin and vmware (and amarok) don't play nice together, plus I am sure there are many more combinations. > > I hear all this talk about this new sound driver (server?) in the new Fedora, and its in > Ubuntu Heron (beta), and I am wondering perhaps if that address this issue? > > Merry x-mas and a Happy New Year to all! It is pretty simple. Only use programs that support ALSA, not OSS. Alsa applications automatically share and mix with recent kernels, while OSS programs block all others from accessing sound (on most sound cards, emu10k1 and similar do not block even with OSS since they have lots of hardware channels and hardware mixing). You can run oss applications using aoss as a wrapper I believe. I am not quite sure since I never have to do it given I use an emu10k1 and hence have hardware mixing. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 02:37:44 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 21:37:44 -0500 Subject: finding my own ip In-Reply-To: <200712271701.59786.jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <86d4sskue2.fsf@magma.ca> <200712271701.59786.jamon.camisso@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20080109023744.GW2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Dec 27, 2007 at 05:01:56PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On Fedora and Debian, check out the ez-ipupdate tool, it works with 10+ > dynamic dns providers. With that you just ssh to you.dnsprovider.com I > have the equivalent setup to run on my router's firmware and it is the > easiest and most convenient way to keep up to date with your ip. > > You could setup curl to login to and scrape the IP from the netgear > interface too, but having a subdomain is easier to remember and you > don't have to check your email first. > > There is also an External IP plugin for Firefox, but it just uses one of > those 10+ external websites ez-ipupdate uses anyways. I use the package ddclient on debian to update my dyndns entry. Works great. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 02:45:27 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 21:45:27 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT: DVI-to-HDMI cables In-Reply-To: <1f13df280712300713p3215ff30nbbee3e1755fb54b8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280712300713p3215ff30nbbee3e1755fb54b8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080109024527.GX2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Dec 30, 2007 at 10:13:08AM -0500, Giles Orr wrote: > I'm considering buying a 1080p LCD TV and perhaps this isn't OT at all > because I have every intention of using it as a monitor with Linux as > well as for movies. A friend has an older Sceptre 37" and we had very > little trouble getting it set up at 1920x1080 with Linux - but it has > a VGA in. A few of the current batch of LCD TVs come with VGA ins, > and I think I've seen one or two with DVI ins, but pretty much all of > the ones I'm looking at come with HDMI ins. So if I don't get DVI/VGA > in, and I buy one of those ludicrously expensive DVI-to-HDMI cables > (currently about $75 each), would it allow me to run the LCD TV as a > monitor at a full 1920x1080 resolution? I have a video card that will > support this. You would be much better off using the DVI to an HDMI input using a DVI to HDMI cable (should be about $20 or so). The video card should even be able to determine the resolution of the screen that way and you just have to set it up to use that output. I haven't tried it myself (still using an old standard TV) but it should be quite simple. A DVI to HDMI cable is not expensive since they are 100% compatible signal wise and it is simply an adapter from one connector to another. For example: http://www.canadacomputers.com/main.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=008244&cid=CA.664 Same cost for 2m DVI to HDMI as a 2m DVI to DVI. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 03:12:03 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 22:12:03 -0500 Subject: Recommendations for AGP video card In-Reply-To: <4777C4A6.6030906-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4777C4A6.6030906@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080109031203.GY2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Dec 30, 2007 at 11:17:42AM -0500, John McGregor wrote: > Currently my desktop has a GeForce FX 5500 (analog and DVI output) which > is proving to be a bit flaky when connected to my new (for Xmas) LG > L196WTQ 19" LCD monitor. The vid card's flakiness is apparent in both > Win XP and Mepis 6.5 & 7. As a precaution, I checked the monitor against > another system and it's fine. In Windows the screen blacks out randomly > for a second or two and in Mepis there are many inoperative pixels at > the edges of the screen The monitor's resolution is 1440 x 900 and I > made the necessary edits to xorg.conf. I want to replace this card and > what I need are recommendations for a card to replace this one (no more > than $100.00). Well I use a 6600GT on my system, but I don't think you can get those anymore. You can still find the 7600gs, 7600gt, 7900gs for AGP. The 7900 is nowhere near your price point. www.lucomputers.com lists a 7600gs AGP for $98 with VGA and DVI output. tigerdirect claims to have the 7600gt 512MB AGP for $133. www.canadacomputers.com has the 7300gt for $105 (with a $15 mail in rebate on top of that to make it more like $90). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 03:23:11 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 22:23:11 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080107121759.29214.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <475E84AE.200@chrisaitken.net> <475EA3D0.9000003@chrisaitken.net> <475EA89C.4060807@chrisaitken.net> <20071211160301.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211161308.9490.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <473c25250712151429t3af3dbe8p4e5b1a8fd542b902@mail.gmail.com> <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080109032311.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 07, 2008 at 07:17:59AM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > Okay, I tried that. That gave me the 'Network Settings' interface. The only > 'Connection ' listed is 'Wired Connection (Address: dhcp)'. It won't let me > make a brand-new connection - onl an alias. So, I created an alias 'devon1' > with ip adress 191.168.0.9 but it still won't show up when I run > /sbin/ifconfig. Do you physically have another network port to add as a new connection? If not then all you can do is edit an existing entry, or add an alias to an existing interface. Software can't create physical ports out of thin air. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 03:47:51 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 22:47:51 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsetsy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <478443e9.0a1f400a.0e4f.570d@mx.google.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Chris F.A. > Johnson > Sent: Tuesday 08 January 2008 17:29 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Debating web development toolsetsy > > For anything that HTML and CSS cannot handle, I use shell scripts. I can turn out some pretty mean scripts, but I value my sanity too much to try and do a full website in sh or even bash. -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 04:35:35 2008 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 23:35:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <478443e9.0a1f400a.0e4f.570d-ATjtLOhZ0NVl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> References: <478443e9.0a1f400a.0e4f.570d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2008, Kareem Shehata wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Chris F.A. >> Johnson >> Sent: Tuesday 08 January 2008 17:29 >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Debating web development toolsets >> >> For anything that HTML and CSS cannot handle, I use shell scripts. > > I can turn out some pretty mean scripts, but I value my sanity too much to > try and do a full website in sh or even bash. Why would you ever want to? You use HTML and CSS to create the website. Use a programming language only for dynamic content. I have very few pages that are entirely generated by scripts, e.g.: http://cfaj.freeshell.org/wordfinder http://torquiz.freeshell.org/members/members.cgi There are, however, many more that have features that are generated by CGI script using SSI. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 14:03:26 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 09:03:26 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: References: <478443e9.0a1f400a.0e4f.570d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20080109140326.GA2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 08, 2008 at 11:35:35PM -0500, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > Why would you ever want to? You use HTML and CSS to create the > website. > > Use a programming language only for dynamic content. > > I have very few pages that are entirely generated by scripts, e.g.: > > http://cfaj.freeshell.org/wordfinder > http://torquiz.freeshell.org/members/members.cgi > > There are, however, many more that have features that are generated > by CGI script using SSI. One reason to do everything with scripts is to allow using templates and other nifty script generated HTML code that gives you a consistent look and consistent menus everywhere without having to edit every page whenever you want to make a change. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 14:09:13 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 09:09:13 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080109032311.GZ2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <475E84AE.200@chrisaitken.net> <475EA3D0.9000003@chrisaitken.net> <475EA89C.4060807@chrisaitken.net> <20071211160301.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211161308.9490.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <473c25250712151429t3af3dbe8p4e5b1a8fd542b902@mail.gmail.com> <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109032311.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 07, 2008 at 07:17:59AM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> Okay, I tried that. That gave me the 'Network Settings' interface. The only >> 'Connection ' listed is 'Wired Connection (Address: dhcp)'. It won't let me >> make a brand-new connection - onl an alias. So, I created an alias 'devon1' >> with ip adress 191.168.0.9 but it still won't show up when I run >> /sbin/ifconfig. >> > > Do you physically have another network port to add as a new connection? > No. > If not then all you can do is edit an existing entry, or add an alias to > an existing interface. That's what I did. However, /sbin/config still does not show the new entry, and I can't ping it (locally or remotely). Chris > Software can't create physical ports out of thin > air. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 14:43:01 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:43:01 +0300 Subject: Access to ftp through browser Message-ID: Pals, I am running wu-ftpd as an ftp server. If I use command line tools on either Windows or Linux, i can be able to log in on private folders. However, if I use the browser, I always end on the public folders. How can I false the browser to prompt for username and password? Thanks in advance Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 15:06:14 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 10:06:14 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <20080109140326.GA2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <478443e9.0a1f400a.0e4f.570d@mx.google.com> <20080109140326.GA2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1f13df280801090706h8f08de8k3b1f7afff173a863@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 9, 2008 9:03 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jan 08, 2008 at 11:35:35PM -0500, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > Why would you ever want to? You use HTML and CSS to create the > > website. > > > > Use a programming language only for dynamic content. > > > > I have very few pages that are entirely generated by scripts, e.g.: > > > > http://cfaj.freeshell.org/wordfinder > > http://torquiz.freeshell.org/members/members.cgi > > > > There are, however, many more that have features that are generated > > by CGI script using SSI. > > One reason to do everything with scripts is to allow using templates and > other nifty script generated HTML code that gives you a consistent look > and consistent menus everywhere without having to edit every page > whenever you want to make a change. Apache's Server Side Includes aren't by themselves enough to create significant "dynamic content," and you could undoubtedly replace SSIs with scripts if you wanted to ... but I consider SSI essential because it's staggeringly simple. They're probably also that both more efficient and secure than more complex external languages. My entire site uses SSI, with a judicious quantity of PHP. Even if you decide to use Python, RoR, whatever, take a look at SSI: it will take you perhaps four hours to master its deepest intricacies, and it'll be worth it. (All assuming of course that you're using Apache as a webserver.) http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/howto/ssi.html -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 15:07:28 2008 From: rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Dice) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 10:07:28 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1-ATjtLOhZ0NVl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> References: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5bef4baf0801090707l22cf43b6r5c7287d34d969bf0@mail.gmail.com> Kareem, Know Thyself -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_thyself - What is your purpose for getting into web development? - What is your expectation for growth of the web development project? - Do you plan on having other people join in on this project in the future? If so, in what capacity? - Do you have a customer you will be doing this for? Do they have specific needs or expectations that one web development framework will address more readily than others? - What is your existing skill-base in various aspects of web programming? (I.e. programming, design/layout, graphics, UI design) - Do you want to play to your strengths (perhaps because your goal is to get the job done ASAP) or do you want to broaden your skills (because this is a learning project)? I.e. do you pick something similar to what you already know or quite different from what you already know? Don't look at technology first. Look at what your goals and circumstances are first and then pick the technology that is most suitable. (And don't expect to find a "perfect" technology -- first, there is no such thing, and second it is quite possible that several of your goals will be mutually exclusive and therefore you have to make best-compromises between your goals, and so you should expect your technology choice to reflect best-compromises as well.) Cheers, Richard On Jan 7, 2008 3:39 PM, Kareem Shehata wrote: > > I'm still wrestling with the problem of choosing a good language for web > development projects. As I mentioned previously, I'm looking to get into > some web development this year, but have no idea where to start. > > I've looked into Ruby on Rails, and I have to admit the concepts of "Agile > Development" sound sweet, but is it too good to be true? Based on all of > the articles, below I don't know who to believe anymore. I simply don't > have enough time to learn every language and then pick the best one - > particularly since problems like maintenance and support can't be > predicted > by a quick tutorial session. > > Here's what I've figured out, and I don't see a good option out of the > bunch. Please feel free to add your own thoughts, a good discussion on > the > ins and outs of different languages would be much appreciated! > > Thanks, > > -kms > > > > PHP: The defacto web standard? It seems to be supported everywhere, > scales > well, and has lots of libraries, but can be difficult to maintain and get > up > to speed on. > > > Ruby On Rails: If you believe the marketing hype, it'll do everything > including walk the dog three times a day with one line of code. Is this > yet > another web fad, or is RoR something worth pursuing? > > > Java: Difficult to develop with, not widely supported, and high hardware > requirements. Overall, sounds like an expensive PITA. It might be good > for > enterprise-level apps with coders immersed in java for 5+ years, but not > good for smaller, quicker development-time apps. > > > ASP.NET: Gotta at least look at the MS options. I know enough of the .NET > framework that I could probably get up to speed really quickly, and MS > does > a pretty good job of making things easy. They also do a very bad job of > making it flexible, scalable, or secure. Also locks in the platform to > being MS-only. > > > Python: Don't know much about python beyond Mailman. Looks like a decent > scripting language, can it do reports and interface mySQL well? > > > Perl: "The Original Web Language" and I know it has a rabid following. > The > whole world can be built in Perl, but is it the best way to go? > > > Some site references: > Ruby on Rails debate > > (the martial arts and melodrama doesn't scare me, but idea of the > community > imploding definitely does. I don't plan on supporting this app forever, > so > having something maintainable by others is really big) > > > > > < > http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2007/09/7_reasons_i_switched_back_to_p_ > 1.html> > More of the Ruby on Rails debate. > > > > Comparisons > > Are any of these accurate? > > < > http://www.syllogisticsoftware.com/papers/Web_Development_Technology_Compar > ison.html> > > Any other good articles comparing languages/toolsets/platforms for web > development? > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 15:39:21 2008 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 10:39:21 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <5bef4baf0801090707l22cf43b6r5c7287d34d969bf0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1@mx.google.com> <5bef4baf0801090707l22cf43b6r5c7287d34d969bf0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jan 9, 2008 10:07 AM, Richard Dice wrote: > Kareem, > > Know Thyself -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_thyself > > > > What is your purpose for getting into web development? > What is your expectation for growth of the web development project? > Do you plan on having other people join in on this project in the future? If so, in what capacity? > Do you have a customer you will be doing this for? Do they have specific needs or expectations that one web development framework will address more readily than others? > What is your existing skill-base in various aspects of web programming? (I.e. programming, design/layout, graphics, UI design) > Do you want to play to your strengths (perhaps because your goal is to get the job done ASAP) or do you want to broaden your skills (because this is a learning project)? I.e. do you pick something similar to what you already know or quite different from what you already know? > > Don't look at technology first. Look at what your goals and circumstances are first and then pick the technology that is most suitable. (And don't expect to find a "perfect" technology -- first, there is no such thing, and second it is quite possible that several of your goals will be mutually exclusive and therefore you have to make best-compromises between your goals, and so you should expect your technology choice to reflect best-compromises as well.) In addition to Richard's excellent post, also keep in mind how large a team you are working with, and what resources you can rely upon outside that team. My situation is that I'm the only web developer at my company, which means that for any web type challenges I have to rely on places like Perlmonks [1] and the #perl and #apache IRC channels. Don't necessarily make your choice based on technology -- also think about how you're going to be able to get support and feedback for it. Also think about trying something simple in a couple of languages, and see how you do. You might find that you love PHP; you might discover that RoR is really difficult (I haven't used it myself, I'm just throwing out ideas here). Try as many options as possible and see what works for you. I liked Perl pretty well from the start, because it really did 'fit my brain' .. but in addition to that, CPAN [2] is a great resource of software modules that are tested, pre-packaged and ready to go; and there is a local user group, the Toronto Perlmongers [3] with their own mailing list and monthly get-togethers. And I've progressed from ugly CGI scripts in 1998 that contained HTML code to really nice web/database applications written using CGI::Application and Template::Toolkit running under mod_perl. And I loved the earlier quote about how "There are a number of rabid old school fans of Perl, but it's been supplanted by PHP." .. Perl is actually alive and well; version 5.10 was just released last month -- Perl's not disappearing any time soon. :) Really. No, Perl 6 isn't ready yet, but work continues .. and in the mean time, Perl (5.8 or 5.10) is a great language to use. And I hope that doesn't sound too rabid. ;) Good luck, and let us know how it goes. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb 1. http://www.perlmonks.org/ 2. http://www.cpan.org/ 3. http://to.pm.org/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 15:54:54 2008 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 10:54:54 -0500 Subject: one of the best analogies to open source business models that I've seen Message-ID: <200801091054.54797.icanprogram@295.ca> http://wiki.pentaho.org/display/BEEKEEPER/3.+The+Beekeeper+Model bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 15:53:46 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:53:46 -0500 Subject: Access to ftp through browser In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4784EE0A.7070408@rogers.com> Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Pals, > > I am running wu-ftpd as an ftp server. If I use command line tools on > either Windows or Linux, i can be able to log in on private folders. > However, if I use the browser, I always end on the public folders. How > can I false the browser to prompt for username and password? You have to preface the URL with the user ID. I think it's something like "username at http://...", but it's been years since I've done that. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 17:28:06 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:28:06 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: References: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1@mx.google.com> <5bef4baf0801090707l22cf43b6r5c7287d34d969bf0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080109172806.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 10:39:21AM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote: > In addition to Richard's excellent post, also keep in mind how large a > team you are working with, and what resources you can rely upon > outside that team. My situation is that I'm the only web developer at > my company, which means that for any web type challenges I have to > rely on places like Perlmonks [1] and the #perl and #apache IRC > channels. Don't necessarily make your choice based on technology -- > also think about how you're going to be able to get support and > feedback for it. > > Also think about trying something simple in a couple of languages, and > see how you do. You might find that you love PHP; you might discover > that RoR is really difficult (I haven't used it myself, I'm just > throwing out ideas here). Try as many options as possible and see what > works for you. > > I liked Perl pretty well from the start, because it really did 'fit my > brain' .. but in addition to that, CPAN [2] is a great resource of > software modules that are tested, pre-packaged and ready to go; and > there is a local user group, the Toronto Perlmongers [3] with their > own mailing list and monthly get-togethers. And I've progressed from > ugly CGI scripts in 1998 that contained HTML code to really nice > web/database applications written using CGI::Application and > Template::Toolkit running under mod_perl. > > And I loved the earlier quote about how "There are a number of rabid > old school fans of Perl, but it's been supplanted by PHP." .. Perl is > actually alive and well; version 5.10 was just released last month -- > Perl's not disappearing any time soon. :) Really. No, Perl 6 isn't > ready yet, but work continues .. and in the mean time, Perl (5.8 or > 5.10) is a great language to use. And I hope that doesn't sound too > rabid. ;) > > Good luck, and let us know how it goes. Well personally I do lots of perl, especially for web pages at work, and I really hate perl. The more I use it, the less I like it. PHP I find to be a lovely language for web pages, but just like perl you have to be careful not to make security holes. I have played a bit with python recently, and it is very nice. I wish I had looked at it sooner. Lots of nice libraries and such too. No idea how their CGI libraries are since I haven't looked at them, but if it is anything like the rest of python it might be what I would use next time I do some web page thing that isn't at work. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 17:29:27 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:29:27 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <4784D589.8050106-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <475EA3D0.9000003@chrisaitken.net> <475EA89C.4060807@chrisaitken.net> <20071211160301.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211161308.9490.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <473c25250712151429t3af3dbe8p4e5b1a8fd542b902@mail.gmail.com> <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109032311.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 09:09:13AM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > That's what I did. However, /sbin/config still does not show the new > entry, and I can't ping it (locally or remotely). Maybe you didn't apply the setting, or it has an invalid configuration. Note that multiple addresses no longer require alias interfaces on 2.6 kernels, just multiple IPs on one interface. 'ip addr' should show all the IPs on all your interfaces. ifconfig is kind of obsolete these days. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 17:30:00 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:30:00 -0500 Subject: Access to ftp through browser In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080109173000.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 05:43:01PM +0300, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > I am running wu-ftpd as an ftp server. If I use command line tools on > either Windows or Linux, i can be able to log in on private folders. > However, if I use the browser, I always end on the public folders. How > can I false the browser to prompt for username and password? ftp://user at site/ -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 17:50:44 2008 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:50:44 -0500 Subject: Screen scraping a 3270 terminal? Message-ID: <4386c5b20801090950j1b6d1070wef854a0f71a23800@mail.gmail.com> Hi there, I have a client who wants me to scrape information from a number of web-located resources (they're all internal to their network). That's doable, but among the resources are two 3270 terminal sessions that have to be logged into, navigated through and then scraped. My normal procedure is to use curl to snatch and parse HTML from a site, and it will suffice for the rest of the job. But how does one programmatically parse through an old green screen application? I found a vendor called Jagacy (jagacy.com) that provides a Java-based solution, but it seems to be GUI based... and I'm not that good with Java anyway. Any other thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers! Aaron. -- Aaron Vegh, Principal Innoveghtive Inc. P: (647) 477-2690 C: (905) 924-1220 www.innoveghtive.com www.website-in-a-day.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 18:16:54 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 13:16:54 -0500 Subject: Screen scraping a 3270 terminal? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20801090950j1b6d1070wef854a0f71a23800-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20801090950j1b6d1070wef854a0f71a23800@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jan 9, 2008 12:50 PM, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi there, > I have a client who wants me to scrape information from a number of > web-located resources (they're all internal to their network). That's > doable, but among the resources are two 3270 terminal sessions that > have to be logged into, navigated through and then scraped. > > My normal procedure is to use curl to snatch and parse HTML from a > site, and it will suffice for the rest of the job. But how does one > programmatically parse through an old green screen application? > > I found a vendor called Jagacy (jagacy.com) that provides a Java-based > solution, but it seems to be GUI based... and I'm not that good with > Java anyway. > > Any other thoughts would be appreciated. I had some involvement with such a project Many Moons Ago; the vendor then was Attachmate, who are still around (). The other vendor that I know has "history" in this is Hummingbird, who sell "Host Explorer." These are the sorts of products that ought to be suitable, as long as you can match their tooling against what you need to integrate with. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 18:20:06 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 13:20:06 -0500 Subject: PostgreSQL's conformance to SQL standards Message-ID: One question that I only gave vague answers to was that of what standard SQL features are not supported. Here is a comprehensive listing of supported and unsupported features... http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/static/features.html -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 18:46:09 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 13:46:09 -0500 Subject: Screen scraping a 3270 terminal? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20801090950j1b6d1070wef854a0f71a23800-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20801090950j1b6d1070wef854a0f71a23800@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080109184609.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 12:50:44PM -0500, Aaron Vegh wrote: > I have a client who wants me to scrape information from a number of > web-located resources (they're all internal to their network). That's > doable, but among the resources are two 3270 terminal sessions that > have to be logged into, navigated through and then scraped. > > My normal procedure is to use curl to snatch and parse HTML from a > site, and it will suffice for the rest of the job. But how does one > programmatically parse through an old green screen application? expect works well for interactive text thingies. > I found a vendor called Jagacy (jagacy.com) that provides a Java-based > solution, but it seems to be GUI based... and I'm not that good with > Java anyway. > > Any other thoughts would be appreciated. There is also a program called s3270 which allows scripted connections to a 3270 interface. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 19:18:20 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 14:18:20 -0500 Subject: Cheap AGP card Message-ID: <20080109191820.GF2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> For whoever was looking for an AGP card, here is one on sale: http://www.ncix.com/search/?q=25410-1019 7300GT 512MB for $75 with a $25 mail in rebate making for $50. Well add a bit for shipping from vancouver I guess. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 19:39:09 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:39:09 -0500 Subject: cheap AGP card Message-ID: <478522DD.2090203@rogers.com> Thanks to all that responded to my request. I was able to get an Nvidia 6200 with 256 MB ram from Union Computers for $50.00. It's working very well. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 19:48:20 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 14:48:20 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080109172927.GC2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <475EA3D0.9000003@chrisaitken.net> <20071211160301.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211161308.9490.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <473c25250712151429t3af3dbe8p4e5b1a8fd542b902@mail.gmail.com> <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109032311.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880801091148ha79285cw69eb7e830d9528a7@mail.gmail.com> Hey Len, Ifconfig is obselete? I use it to find my ip address and I use it to define static ip addresses manually, I also use it to display all my interfaces. Whats the new command? I guess im outdated :( On Jan 9, 2008 12:29 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 09:09:13AM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > > That's what I did. However, /sbin/config still does not show the new > > entry, and I can't ping it (locally or remotely). > > Maybe you didn't apply the setting, or it has an invalid configuration. > > Note that multiple addresses no longer require alias interfaces on 2.6 > kernels, just multiple IPs on one interface. > > 'ip addr' should show all the IPs on all your interfaces. ifconfig is > kind of obsolete these days. > > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 19:56:52 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 14:56:52 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801091148ha79285cw69eb7e830d9528a7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <475EA3D0.9000003@chrisaitken.net> <20071211161308.9490.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <473c25250712151429t3af3dbe8p4e5b1a8fd542b902@mail.gmail.com> <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109032311.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801091148ha79285cw69eb7e830d9528a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880801091156s4d6047bai134cde75d68c4fad@mail.gmail.com> Hi Len, Nevermind, I saw you said 'ip add'. Thanks. On Jan 9, 2008 2:48 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hey Len, > > Ifconfig is obselete? > > I use it to find my ip address and I use it to define static ip > addresses manually, I also use it to display all my interfaces. > > Whats the new command? I guess im outdated :( > > > > > On Jan 9, 2008 12:29 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 09:09:13AM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > > > That's what I did. However, /sbin/config still does not show the new > > > entry, and I can't ping it (locally or remotely). > > > > Maybe you didn't apply the setting, or it has an invalid configuration. > > > > Note that multiple addresses no longer require alias interfaces on 2.6 > > kernels, just multiple IPs on one interface. > > > > 'ip addr' should show all the IPs on all your interfaces. ifconfig is > > kind of obsolete these days. > > > > > > -- > > Len Sorensen > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 20:02:32 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 15:02:32 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801091148ha79285cw69eb7e830d9528a7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20071211160301.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211161308.9490.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <473c25250712151429t3af3dbe8p4e5b1a8fd542b902@mail.gmail.com> <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109032311.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801091148ha79285cw69eb7e830d9528a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080109200232.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 02:48:20PM -0500, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Ifconfig is obselete? > > I use it to find my ip address and I use it to define static ip > addresses manually, I also use it to display all my interfaces. > > Whats the new command? I guess im outdated :( ip addr - sets and displays ip addresses ip route - sets and displays routes (plain 'route' can't display lots of advanced routing info that is in use today) ip link - sets and displays interface link information ip addr and ip link essentially replace ifconfig. They also aren't cutting off interface names at 9 characters the way ifconfig does. For example: ifconfig eth0 down = ip link set eth0 down ifconfig eth0 multicast = ip link set eth0 multicast on ifconfig eth0 -multicast = ip link set eth0 multicast off ifconfig eth0 10.1.2.3 netmask 255.0.0.0 = ip addr flush dev eth0;ip addr add dev eth0 10.1.2.3/8 ifconfig eth0 add 10.1.2.4/8 = ip addr add dev eth0 10.1.2.4/8 It also replaces ifrename: ifrename -i eth0 -n ethdsl = ip link set eth0 name ethdsl And of course route: route add 10.0.0.0 netmask 255.0.0.0 dev eth0 = ip route add 10.0.0.0/8 dev eth0 -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 20:04:26 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 15:04:26 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080109200232.GG2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20071211160301.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <473c25250712151429t3af3dbe8p4e5b1a8fd542b902@mail.gmail.com> <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109032311.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801091148ha79285cw69eb7e830d9528a7@mail.gmail.com> <20080109200232.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880801091204p5defa0b4hfa50628d7e2988ab@mail.gmail.com> Hi Len, Thank you for those commands, I'll take a look at it :) This was very informative :) On Jan 9, 2008 3:02 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 02:48:20PM -0500, Dave Germiquet wrote: > > Ifconfig is obselete? > > > > I use it to find my ip address and I use it to define static ip > > addresses manually, I also use it to display all my interfaces. > > > > Whats the new command? I guess im outdated :( > > ip addr - sets and displays ip addresses > ip route - sets and displays routes (plain 'route' can't display lots of > advanced routing info that is in use today) > ip link - sets and displays interface link information > > ip addr and ip link essentially replace ifconfig. They also aren't > cutting off interface names at 9 characters the way ifconfig does. > > For example: > ifconfig eth0 down = ip link set eth0 down > ifconfig eth0 multicast = ip link set eth0 multicast on > ifconfig eth0 -multicast = ip link set eth0 multicast off > ifconfig eth0 10.1.2.3 netmask 255.0.0.0 = ip addr flush dev eth0;ip addr add dev eth0 10.1.2.3/8 > ifconfig eth0 add 10.1.2.4/8 = ip addr add dev eth0 10.1.2.4/8 > > It also replaces ifrename: > ifrename -i eth0 -n ethdsl = ip link set eth0 name ethdsl > > And of course route: > route add 10.0.0.0 netmask 255.0.0.0 dev eth0 = ip route add 10.0.0.0/8 dev eth0 > > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 20:12:14 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 15:12:14 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080109200232.GG2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20071211160301.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <473c25250712151429t3af3dbe8p4e5b1a8fd542b902@mail.gmail.com> <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109032311.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801091148ha79285cw69eb7e830d9528a7@mail.gmail.com> <20080109200232.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880801091212h682d0aa0x35b314ac2d13e88d@mail.gmail.com> You dont by any chance know the GENTOO package that includes this binary. On Jan 9, 2008 3:02 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 02:48:20PM -0500, Dave Germiquet wrote: > > Ifconfig is obselete? > > > > I use it to find my ip address and I use it to define static ip > > addresses manually, I also use it to display all my interfaces. > > > > Whats the new command? I guess im outdated :( > > ip addr - sets and displays ip addresses > ip route - sets and displays routes (plain 'route' can't display lots of > advanced routing info that is in use today) > ip link - sets and displays interface link information > > ip addr and ip link essentially replace ifconfig. They also aren't > cutting off interface names at 9 characters the way ifconfig does. > > For example: > ifconfig eth0 down = ip link set eth0 down > ifconfig eth0 multicast = ip link set eth0 multicast on > ifconfig eth0 -multicast = ip link set eth0 multicast off > ifconfig eth0 10.1.2.3 netmask 255.0.0.0 = ip addr flush dev eth0;ip addr add dev eth0 10.1.2.3/8 > ifconfig eth0 add 10.1.2.4/8 = ip addr add dev eth0 10.1.2.4/8 > > It also replaces ifrename: > ifrename -i eth0 -n ethdsl = ip link set eth0 name ethdsl > > And of course route: > route add 10.0.0.0 netmask 255.0.0.0 dev eth0 = ip route add 10.0.0.0/8 dev eth0 > > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 20:18:25 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 15:18:25 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801091212h682d0aa0x35b314ac2d13e88d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20071211160301.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <473c25250712151429t3af3dbe8p4e5b1a8fd542b902@mail.gmail.com> <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109032311.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801091148ha79285cw69eb7e830d9528a7@mail.gmail.com> <20080109200232.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801091212h682d0aa0x35b314ac2d13e88d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420801091218m7cb8315am8ea85756b2b884f7@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 9, 2008 3:12 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > You dont by any chance know the GENTOO package that includes this binary. It's sys-apps/iproute2 Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 21:16:30 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:16:30 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801091212h682d0aa0x35b314ac2d13e88d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <473c25250712151429t3af3dbe8p4e5b1a8fd542b902@mail.gmail.com> <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109032311.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801091148ha79285cw69eb7e830d9528a7@mail.gmail.com> <20080109200232.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801091212h682d0aa0x35b314ac2d13e88d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080109211630.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 03:12:14PM -0500, Dave Germiquet wrote: > You dont by any chance know the GENTOO package that includes this binary. Well ip is usually part of iproute since the suite is usually called ip route 2. But if gentoo doesn't have 'iproute' then I have no idea. Debian has it as: ii iproute 20061002-3 Professional tools to control the networking in Linux kernels -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 21:49:43 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:49:43 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080109172927.GC2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <475EA3D0.9000003@chrisaitken.net> <475EA89C.4060807@chrisaitken.net> <20071211160301.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211161308.9490.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <473c25250712151429t3af3dbe8p4e5b1a8fd542b902@mail.gmail.com> <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109032311.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080109214943.10865.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Lennart Sorensen writes: > On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 09:09:13AM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: >> That's what I did. However, /sbin/config still does not show the new >> entry, and I can't ping it (locally or remotely). > > Maybe you didn't apply the setting, or it has an invalid configuration. > > Note that multiple addresses no longer require alias interfaces on 2.6 > kernels, just multiple IPs on one interface. Okay. > 'ip addr' should show all the IPs on all your interfaces. ifconfig is > kind of obsolete these days. devon at devon:~$ ip addr 1: lo: mtu 16436 qdisc noqueue link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00 inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo inet6 ::1/128 scope host valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever 2: eth0: mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast qlen 1000 link/ether 00:01:02:78:0a:7b brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff inet 192.168.0.102/24 brd 192.168.0.255 scope global eth0 inet 192.168.0.225/24 brd 192.168.0.255 scope global secondary eth0:0 inet6 fe80::201:2ff:fe78:a7b/64 scope link valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever Still no 192.168.0.9 Chris > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 22:46:38 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:46:38 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080109214943.10865.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20071211160301.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211161308.9490.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <473c25250712151429t3af3dbe8p4e5b1a8fd542b902@mail.gmail.com> <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109032311.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080109214943.10865.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080109224638.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 04:49:43PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > devon at devon:~$ ip addr > 1: lo: mtu 16436 qdisc noqueue > link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00 > inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo > inet6 ::1/128 scope host > valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever > 2: eth0: mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast qlen 1000 > link/ether 00:01:02:78:0a:7b brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff > inet 192.168.0.102/24 brd 192.168.0.255 scope global eth0 > inet 192.168.0.225/24 brd 192.168.0.255 scope global secondary eth0:0 > inet6 fe80::201:2ff:fe78:a7b/64 scope link > valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever > > Still no 192.168.0.9 But you do have both .102 and .225 so you managed 2 addresses so far. .225 is currently assigned to eth0:0 which means whatever tool you are using to configure it is using the old way of doing things. Giving it an alias interface doesn't add anything anymore. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 22:49:07 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 17:49:07 -0500 Subject: Screen scraping a 3270 terminal? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20801090950j1b6d1070wef854a0f71a23800-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20801090950j1b6d1070wef854a0f71a23800@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47854F63.6070507@rogers.com> Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi there, > I have a client who wants me to scrape information from a number of > web-located resources (they're all internal to their network). That's > doable, but among the resources are two 3270 terminal sessions that > have to be logged into, navigated through and then scraped. > > My normal procedure is to use curl to snatch and parse HTML from a > site, and it will suffice for the rest of the job. But how does one > programmatically parse through an old green screen application? > > I found a vendor called Jagacy (jagacy.com) that provides a Java-based > solution, but it seems to be GUI based... and I'm not that good with > Java anyway. > > Any other thoughts would be appreciated. > Many years ago, I used to support IBM's "Personal Communications" at IBM. IIRC, it could do that sort of thing with scripts, but it's been quite a while since I've used it. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 00:04:31 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:04:31 -0800 Subject: Affordable internet /w static IP Message-ID: <3a97ef0801091604i34aba1p25dd3583914468dd@mail.gmail.com> Hey everyone, Can anyone recommend a decent ISP in the Toronto area that offers unlimited (or high) limits, decent up/down rates, and at least one static IP at a decent price? It's generally residential DSL but I also run a small non-commercial/non-profit vanity domain which I use to host my test server and various friends' art sites. Thanks, Tyler Aviss -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 00:23:26 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 19:23:26 -0500 Subject: Affordable internet /w static IP In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0801091604i34aba1p25dd3583914468dd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801091604i34aba1p25dd3583914468dd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200801091923.31923.jamon.camisso@utoronto.ca> On January 9, 2008 19:04:31 Tyler Aviss wrote: > Hey everyone, > > Can anyone recommend a decent ISP in the Toronto area that offers > unlimited (or high) limits, decent up/down rates, and at least one > static IP at a decent price? > It's generally residential DSL but I also run a small > non-commercial/non-profit vanity domain which I use to host my test > server and various friends' art sites. I think most people will recommend Teksavvy, or Wireless Nomad, which is a Teksavvy reseller that allow you to setup and share a wireless acess point. Jamon -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 00:25:35 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 19:25:35 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080109224638.GI2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20071211160301.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211161308.9490.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <473c25250712151429t3af3dbe8p4e5b1a8fd542b902@mail.gmail.com> <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109032311.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080109214943.10865.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109224638.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080110002535.13868.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Lennart Sorensen writes: > On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 04:49:43PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: >> devon at devon:~$ ip addr >> 1: lo: mtu 16436 qdisc noqueue >> link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00 >> inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo >> inet6 ::1/128 scope host >> valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever >> 2: eth0: mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast qlen 1000 >> link/ether 00:01:02:78:0a:7b brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff >> inet 192.168.0.102/24 brd 192.168.0.255 scope global eth0 >> inet 192.168.0.225/24 brd 192.168.0.255 scope global secondary eth0:0 >> inet6 fe80::201:2ff:fe78:a7b/64 scope link >> valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever >> >> Still no 192.168.0.9 > > But you do have both .102 and .225 so you managed 2 addresses so far. Managed to get on the Internet (those addresses were just assigned by the cable modem (or router)). What I can't do is print and scp across my LAN. I want to print to the printer-attached computer (192.168.0.2/24). > .225 is currently assigned to eth0:0 which means whatever tool you are > using to configure it is using the old way of doing things. Giving it > an alias interface doesn't add anything anymore. That makes sense. So, how do I assign a different address to the same NIC? I want it to be 192.168.0.9 with subnet mask 255.255.255.0. I did this in the RH realm with 'neat' so I never learned the manual way. I'm on ubuntu now. Chris > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 01:51:52 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 20:51:52 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080110002535.13868.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <473c25250712151429t3af3dbe8p4e5b1a8fd542b902@mail.gmail.com> <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109032311.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080109214943.10865.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109224638.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080110002535.13868.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080110015152.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 07:25:35PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > Managed to get on the Internet (those addresses were just assigned by the > cable modem (or router)). What I can't do is print and scp across my LAN. I > want to print to the printer-attached computer (192.168.0.2/24). > > That makes sense. So, how do I assign a different address to the same NIC? > I want it to be 192.168.0.9 with subnet mask 255.255.255.0. I did this in > the RH realm with 'neat' so I never learned the manual way. I'm on ubuntu > now. Well I know how to do it with debian when doing it the plain way. When network manager gets involved I have no idea. I have never used it. Given you already appear to have 2 IP addresses within the 192.168.0.0/24 subnet, I can't see how adding a 3rd could possibly make printing more likely to work than it already is. I think you are looking at the wrong problem. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 02:38:44 2008 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 21:38:44 -0500 Subject: Emergency exit from X to tty1 In-Reply-To: <20080109022122.GT2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20071219231456.GB7517@waltdnes.org> <476A0B46.6060902@utoronto.ca> <476A0C5E.5030501@utoronto.ca> <473c25250712200512v1d5bd0a3x2bb6c45b8a1645cf@mail.gmail.com> <476A7C58.7000904@telly.org> <20071220235737.GA12990@waltdnes.org> <20071221144536.GQ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071222040057.GA8290@waltdnes.org> <20080109022122.GT2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080110023844.GC10274@waltdnes.org> On Tue, Jan 08, 2008 at 09:21:22PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote > So ACPI power, and reset (doesn't turn power off). So there is no > hardware power switch on the front. The smaller "reset" button seems to be straight hardware, i.e. push it and your PC does a hard reboot, without rsync. If you don't "sync" just before hitting it, it's fsck time on the reboot. -- Walter Dnes I'm not repeating myself I'm an X Window user... I'm an ex-Windows-user -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 02:40:58 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 21:40:58 -0500 Subject: Emergency exit from X to tty1 In-Reply-To: <20080110023844.GC10274-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20071219231456.GB7517@waltdnes.org> <476A0B46.6060902@utoronto.ca> <476A0C5E.5030501@utoronto.ca> <473c25250712200512v1d5bd0a3x2bb6c45b8a1645cf@mail.gmail.com> <476A7C58.7000904@telly.org> <20071220235737.GA12990@waltdnes.org> <20071221144536.GQ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071222040057.GA8290@waltdnes.org> <20080109022122.GT2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080110023844.GC10274@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20080110024058.GK2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 09:38:44PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > The smaller "reset" button seems to be straight hardware, i.e. push it > and your PC does a hard reboot, without rsync. If you don't "sync" just > before hitting it, it's fsck time on the reboot. Of course, it's a reset button. The power button is ACPI enabled, the reset is just reset. It is not a button to request a reboot. You could make the acpi power button do that if you want instead of power off though. The only real power switch on a modern PC is the switch on the back of the power supply (if your power supply even has one), and holding the power button for over 4 seconds on most machines (although that still only powers the system off most of the way. Standby power is still present since that is what is used to control the power switch and such). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 03:25:59 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 22:25:59 -0500 Subject: Emergency exit from X to tty1 In-Reply-To: <20080110023844.GC10274-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20071219231456.GB7517@waltdnes.org> <476A0B46.6060902@utoronto.ca> <476A0C5E.5030501@utoronto.ca> <473c25250712200512v1d5bd0a3x2bb6c45b8a1645cf@mail.gmail.com> <476A7C58.7000904@telly.org> <20071220235737.GA12990@waltdnes.org> <20071221144536.GQ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071222040057.GA8290@waltdnes.org> <20080109022122.GT2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080110023844.GC10274@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <47859047.30200@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > On Tue, Jan 08, 2008 at 09:21:22PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote > > >> So ACPI power, and reset (doesn't turn power off). So there is no >> hardware power switch on the front. >> > > The smaller "reset" button seems to be straight hardware, i.e. push it > and your PC does a hard reboot, without rsync. If you don't "sync" just > before hitting it, it's fsck time on the reboot. > > Because the drive is all fscked up. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 07:34:41 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:34:41 +0300 Subject: Access to ftp through browser In-Reply-To: <20080109173000.GD2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080109173000.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Hi, Thanks dudes. It works very well Regards, William On 09/01/2008, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 05:43:01PM +0300, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > > I am running wu-ftpd as an ftp server. If I use command line tools on > > either Windows or Linux, i can be able to log in on private folders. > > However, if I use the browser, I always end on the public folders. How > > can I false the browser to prompt for username and password? > > ftp://user at site/ > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 16:20:52 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:20:52 -0500 Subject: All I want for x-mas is :: no more sound card is in use errors! In-Reply-To: <20080109023252.GV2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20071224200938.2f89a027.tleslie@tcn.net> <20080109023252.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0801100820k4ef14aa7y695f0a9687fd289e@mail.gmail.com> Does the alsa-oss driver not automatically do the software mixing for OSS type apps then? I assumed it was just a wrapper to the ALSA functionality for OSS-only apps? On Jan 8, 2008 9:32 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 24, 2007 at 08:09:38PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > > It am almost getting to the point where I can't find any issue with new shiny > > Gutsy install. It dual monitors great with Nvidia card, > > plays just about any multimedia I throw at it (well except a bluray i tried, sound got out of > > sync pretty bad), etc,etc. > > > > One problem I have, and have had in the past with other distro's is that > > some process will be using the sound card in a way that other processes > > get blocked. > > I know at times in the past I was able to have flash (in browser) share with amarok, etc, > > but there is always some combination that doesn't work. > > In Gutsy, I have had no better luck. > > > > Does anyone have a linux configured that > > can have a flash plugin, music player, real player, and especially vmware > > (and the virtual OS in the vmware using sound) all co-existing happily? > > All technically playing at once, as bad as it might sound. > > Or is this not possible? > > The exact case in point is, the firefox flash plugin seems to grab and keep the sound card, > > even when nothing is playing, i'd like to listen to a podcast on amarok, listen to the odd > > wmv voice file in my email (company does VM this way) and then get sound from > > another linux (or rarely a windows image) in vmware - > > doing all this, without having to selectively shutdown certain apps. > > Keep in mind that N number of things might "have" the sound card, > > but only one is actually producing audio at a time (or perhaps a slight over lap, > > i.e. listening to podcast, and hearing a v-mail) the rest might be in a 0-volume > > or pause state, etc. and I just don't want to have to shut stuff off just > > so one thing can get its turn to produce sound. > > > > I am hoping there is some sound/audio driver that can do this. > > > > Here's hoping someone delivers this x-mas wish to me! > > > > I don't recall getting this in MS windows, but it been so long I am not sure, > > and as of 1-2 years ago, don't recall getting this on my MacOSX either, > > but maybe I never tried to much multiplexing, and I certainly never had the VMWARE > > part in the mix on these. > > > > Right now I am just using stock ubuntu gutsy's default sound drivers (and setup). > > For sure I know that mplayer and vmware don't play nice together, and flash plugin and vmware (and amarok) don't play nice together, plus I am sure there are many more combinations. > > > > I hear all this talk about this new sound driver (server?) in the new Fedora, and its in > > Ubuntu Heron (beta), and I am wondering perhaps if that address this issue? > > > > Merry x-mas and a Happy New Year to all! > > It is pretty simple. Only use programs that support ALSA, not OSS. > Alsa applications automatically share and mix with recent kernels, while > OSS programs block all others from accessing sound (on most sound cards, > emu10k1 and similar do not block even with OSS since they have lots of > hardware channels and hardware mixing). > > You can run oss applications using aoss as a wrapper I believe. I am > not quite sure since I never have to do it given I use an emu10k1 and > hence have hardware mixing. > > -- > Len Sorensen > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 477-1784 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 16:38:18 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:38:18 -0500 Subject: All I want for x-mas is :: no more sound card is in use errors! In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0801100820k4ef14aa7y695f0a9687fd289e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20071224200938.2f89a027.tleslie@tcn.net> <20080109023252.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0801100820k4ef14aa7y695f0a9687fd289e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080110163818.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 11:20:52AM -0500, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Does the alsa-oss driver not automatically do the software mixing for > OSS type apps then? I assumed it was just a wrapper to the ALSA > functionality for OSS-only apps? No it does not since the OSS device is apparently not supposed to do so (although for hardware mixing it always has and hence does under alsa too). I belieave running the program using aoss wrapper does work fine with the software mixing, so you can just do: aoss crappy_oss_only_program arguments But I have never tried it since I have never needed in on my card. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 19:16:33 2008 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:16:33 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080110015152.GJ2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080110002535.13868.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080110015152.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200801101416.33929.mervc@eol.ca> On Wednesday 09 January 2008 20:51, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 07:25:35PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Well I know how to do it with debian when doing it the plain way. When > network manager gets involved I have no idea. I have never used it. > I believe that Network Manager is only used for working with DHCP on a LAN. Static addresses means disabling the Mgr. I think that I read it in the Mythbuntu docs. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Sid Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.7 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 20:19:18 2008 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:19:18 -0500 Subject: Screen scraping a 3270 terminal? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20801090950j1b6d1070wef854a0f71a23800-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20801090950j1b6d1070wef854a0f71a23800@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Aaron. I've written two screen scraping applications that use x3270, the open source 3270 emulator. The apps use the scripting interface built into the emulator. I wrote the applications as bash shell scripts (big 2000+ line ones), and they work great. If you would like more info, email me off list. pm -- Paul Mora Registered Linux user #2065 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 20:36:07 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:36:07 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? Message-ID: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> I've been a long-term Debian user, but though I do love apt, I tend to find that it falls short in some cases. In particular, I haven't been overly pleased with using an AMD64 desktop vs the packages available using IA32, even for newer Debian-derived distros such as Ubuntu. Since I use my more powerful machine as part desktop, part workhouse, I'm interesting in switching to Gentoo as a desktop distro. I've heard good things about it in terms of performance server-wise, and am wondering if anyone has had much experience using it as a workstation/desktop (and as such, what's the availability of desktop software, media packages, etc like). Any Gentoo desktop users out there? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rrod-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 20:57:33 2008 From: rrod-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (R.R.) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:57:33 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002a01c853cb$6c6ae370$4540aa50$@com> You basically use EMERGE to compile the majority of your software (and OS) from source. It's very time consuming and unforgiving (if you mess up) - Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Tyler Aviss Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 3:36 PM To: tlug Subject: [TLUG]: Gentoo desktop? I've been a long-term Debian user, but though I do love apt, I tend to find that it falls short in some cases. In particular, I haven't been overly pleased with using an AMD64 desktop vs the packages available using IA32, even for newer Debian-derived distros such as Ubuntu. Since I use my more powerful machine as part desktop, part workhouse, I'm interesting in switching to Gentoo as a desktop distro. I've heard good things about it in terms of performance server-wise, and am wondering if anyone has had much experience using it as a workstation/desktop (and as such, what's the availability of desktop software, media packages, etc like). Any Gentoo desktop users out there? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 21:03:00 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:03:00 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420801101303v6755e54ft20e91e587a4b8f56@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 10, 2008 3:36 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Any Gentoo desktop users out there? I use Gentoo for my desktop and my laptop. I'm generally happy with it. It's frustrating that the package maintainers occasionally release broken packages. It's also frustrating that the package maintainers seem to only ever do incremental upgrades in really small increments, so upgrading in a large increment tends not to work. On the other hand, I really like the package choices, the up-to-dateness of the packages, and the ease with which I can create my own packages that seamlessly integrate with the system. The community around Gentoo is very good, but you have to avoid the people that spend time arguing about compiler flags. Lots of people seem not to understand that Bash spends most of its time blocked on I/O, for example, and want you to compile with -O9999 (never mind that numbers greater than 3 are equal to 3) or -fomit-instructions. I use Gentoo primarily for the package manager (USE flags rock) and the fact that my first install taught me more about how the system works than I ever learned while using Mandrake, SuSE, and RedHat combined. I've been using Gentoo since the fall of 2002 and I don't see myself changing any time soon. One downside is that I'm hopeless on other distributions because I've gotten used to the Gentoo way of doing things. This might be more of a comment on me than on Gentoo. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 21:19:10 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:19:10 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080110211910.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 03:36:07PM -0500, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I've been a long-term Debian user, but though I do love apt, I tend to > find that it falls short in some cases. In particular, I haven't been > overly pleased with using an AMD64 desktop vs the packages available > using IA32, even for newer Debian-derived distros such as Ubuntu. What difference do you find between i386 and amd64? There really should be almost none these days. > Since I use my more powerful machine as part desktop, part workhouse, > I'm interesting in switching to Gentoo as a desktop distro. I've heard > good things about it in terms of performance server-wise, and am > wondering if anyone has had much experience using it as a > workstation/desktop (and as such, what's the availability of desktop > software, media packages, etc like). Well it is highly unlikely that gentoo will have any less problems with 64bit than debian, since the problems are almost always a matter of some code not being 64bit clean. > Any Gentoo desktop users out there? I certainly never will be. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 21:38:43 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:38:43 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <20080110211910.GM2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <20080110211910.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880801101338j6009b112tded149fe3984f544@mail.gmail.com> I love gentoo and its use flags because everything I need gets compiled in. I've never had any problems with the 64 bit issue (I run 64 bit gentoo) I used some type of emulator package for my win32 binaries i think and my firefox (its been a while since i've had to configure it) Compiling the package from scratch is a drag but it has its advantages with you get what you want compiled in HENCE: Restricted Patent Packages (if you want them you can choose like MPPE for Windows VPNS) MP3's and so forth.... I know Debian may have a similiar thing but i find gentoo easier. I also learned alot from installing gentoo. On Jan 10, 2008 4:19 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 03:36:07PM -0500, Tyler Aviss wrote: > > I've been a long-term Debian user, but though I do love apt, I tend to > > find that it falls short in some cases. In particular, I haven't been > > overly pleased with using an AMD64 desktop vs the packages available > > using IA32, even for newer Debian-derived distros such as Ubuntu. > > What difference do you find between i386 and amd64? There really should > be almost none these days. > > > Since I use my more powerful machine as part desktop, part workhouse, > > I'm interesting in switching to Gentoo as a desktop distro. I've heard > > good things about it in terms of performance server-wise, and am > > wondering if anyone has had much experience using it as a > > workstation/desktop (and as such, what's the availability of desktop > > software, media packages, etc like). > > Well it is highly unlikely that gentoo will have any less problems with > 64bit than debian, since the problems are almost always a matter of some > code not being 64bit clean. > > > Any Gentoo desktop users out there? > > I certainly never will be. > > -- > Len Sorensen > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 21:42:52 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:42:52 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801101338j6009b112tded149fe3984f544-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <20080110211910.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801101338j6009b112tded149fe3984f544@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880801101342j461ae820se97e3ba2f0a7954d@mail.gmail.com> Additionally its great if you can use Distcc with gentoo, thats how i learned how to use distcc. (A cluster compiled program) Another great thing is converting videos, if you do alot of video converting you can choose which video conversation you can have. Again this is my own personal preference and use.. I also use Debian on some of my PPC devices (NSLU2 SLUG) Older powerpc computer imac. I think it all depends what you want to use it for with your Desktop and what your willing to sacrifice or gain. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 22:03:17 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:03:17 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801101342j461ae820se97e3ba2f0a7954d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <20080110211910.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801101338j6009b112tded149fe3984f544@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880801101342j461ae820se97e3ba2f0a7954d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420801101403j1c24c987ye957bb069ded70e8@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 10, 2008 4:42 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Additionally its great if you can use Distcc with gentoo, thats how i > learned how to use distcc. > > (A cluster compiled program) It _is_ pretty cool that distcc and ccache integrate with the Gentoo package manager, but, in fairness, I think they're just crutches to ease the pain of building things from source. If you install binary packages instead of source packages then you don't need distcc at all and you get a much more significant speedup. If you happen to have a collection machines on which you'd like to run Gentoo, I think it would be cool to have a "build host" that compiles all the source packages (using distcc on the rest of the machines) and stores the resulting binary packages in a network-accessible place. The rest of the machines can then install the binary packages without having to compile everything all over again. This only works if you're willing to use the same compiler settings and USE flags everywhere. By the way, another nice feature of Gentoo is that it's easy to create a minimal system. I've never used real Debian (only Ubuntu), so maybe it's just as easy there, but on Gentoo, you have to choose everything, so you can choose small system services or, if you're feeling non-standard, you can choose not to install a cron daemon or a system logger, or whatever. You could probably do the same thing with Ubuntu, but in the Gentoo case, you start with nothing and build up whereas Ubuntu starts with a heck of a lot and you'd have to whittle down. I think it'd be easier to build a small system by starting with nothing than by starting with a big system. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 22:13:25 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:13:25 +0000 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <7ac602420801101403j1c24c987ye957bb069ded70e8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <20080110211910.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801101338j6009b112tded149fe3984f544@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880801101342j461ae820se97e3ba2f0a7954d@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420801101403j1c24c987ye957bb069ded70e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jan 10, 2008 10:03 PM, Ian Petersen wrote: > By the way, another nice feature of Gentoo is that it's easy to create > a minimal system. I've never used real Debian (only Ubuntu), so maybe > it's just as easy there, but on Gentoo, you have to choose everything, > so you can choose small system services or, if you're feeling > non-standard, you can choose not to install a cron daemon or a system > logger, or whatever. You could probably do the same thing with > Ubuntu, but in the Gentoo case, you start with nothing and build up > whereas Ubuntu starts with a heck of a lot and you'd have to whittle > down. I think it'd be easier to build a small system by starting with > nothing than by starting with a big system. The "minimum" for Debian is basically the set of packages required to have: a) Network connectivity working, and b) Package management working. That is what you need as a bootstrap in order to install anything else, and is indeed pretty minimal. To have less would mean you couldn't upgrade the system. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 23:00:00 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:00:00 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <20080110211910.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801101338j6009b112tded149fe3984f544@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880801101342j461ae820se97e3ba2f0a7954d@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420801101403j1c24c987ye957bb069ded70e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880801101500k49ae5ea2w12550a6e6ae7923b@mail.gmail.com> Hey All, I know debian has a lot of package sources, but emerge has alot too and I've had more success with emerge then debians apt, not sure which has the most applications available. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 23:57:01 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:57:01 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080110015152.GJ2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <473c25250712151429t3af3dbe8p4e5b1a8fd542b902@mail.gmail.com> <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109032311.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080109214943.10865.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109224638.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080110002535.13868.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080110015152.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4786B0CD.7060800@chrisaitken.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 07:25:35PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> Managed to get on the Internet (those addresses were just assigned by the >> cable modem (or router)). What I can't do is print and scp across my LAN. I >> want to print to the printer-attached computer (192.168.0.2/24). >> >> That makes sense. So, how do I assign a different address to the same NIC? >> I want it to be 192.168.0.9 with subnet mask 255.255.255.0. I did this in >> the RH realm with 'neat' so I never learned the manual way. I'm on ubuntu >> now. >> > > Well I know how to do it with debian when doing it the plain way. When > network manager gets involved I have no idea. I have never used it. > > Given you already appear to have 2 IP addresses within the > 192.168.0.0/24 subnet, I can't see how adding a 3rd could possibly make > printing more likely to work than it already is. I think you are > looking at the wrong problem. > Okay, I just got printing working. So, the ip addresses obviously work. I still have two concerns: 1. I can't scp from another machine to this one, and 2. These ip addresses must be assigned by the cable modem/router as I never assigned them. How will I print if the cable modem is down (well, my ISP)? It has happened. Without a static address I can't print across my LAN... Chris > -- > Len Sorensen > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 00:23:47 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:23:47 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <4786B0CD.7060800-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109032311.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080109214943.10865.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109224638.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080110002535.13868.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080110015152.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4786B0CD.7060800@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <32f6a8880801101623y2dd23c44l50a1beb7c8a443db@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 10, 2008 6:57 PM, Christopher Aitken wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 07:25:35PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > >> Managed to get on the Internet (those addresses were just assigned by the > >> cable modem (or router)). What I can't do is print and scp across my LAN. I > >> want to print to the printer-attached computer (192.168.0.2/24). > >> > >> That makes sense. So, how do I assign a different address to the same NIC? > >> I want it to be 192.168.0.9 with subnet mask 255.255.255.0. I did this in > >> the RH realm with 'neat' so I never learned the manual way. I'm on ubuntu > >> now. > >> > > > > Well I know how to do it with debian when doing it the plain way. When > > network manager gets involved I have no idea. I have never used it. > > > > Given you already appear to have 2 IP addresses within the > > 192.168.0.0/24 subnet, I can't see how adding a 3rd could possibly make > > printing more likely to work than it already is. I think you are > > looking at the wrong problem. > > > Okay, I just got printing working. So, the ip addresses obviously work. > I still have two concerns: > 1. I can't scp from another machine to this one, and > 2. These ip addresses must be assigned by the cable modem/router as I > never assigned them. How will I print if the cable modem is down (well, > my ISP)? It has happened. Without a static address I can't print across > my LAN... > > Chris > > > -- > > Len Sorensen > > -- > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Well, in my local area networks I like to set up my DHCP server to set static ip addresses by using mac addresses on the router. However you can assign static ip addresses however at the moment I do not have a ubuntu box do it.. isn't there a /etc/sysconfig file you can modify. Do you have SSH running on your system could that be why SCP isn't working? Can you SSH into your other systems? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 01:14:30 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:14:30 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420801101403j1c24c987ye957bb069ded70e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200801102014.45871.jamon.camisso@utoronto.ca> On January 10, 2008 05:13:25 pm Christopher Browne wrote: > On Jan 10, 2008 10:03 PM, Ian Petersen wrote: > > By the way, another nice feature of Gentoo is that it's easy to > > create a minimal system. I've never used real Debian (only > > Ubuntu), so maybe it's just as easy there, but on Gentoo, you have > > to choose everything, so you can choose small system services or, > > if you're feeling non-standard, you can choose not to install a > > cron daemon or a system logger, or whatever. You could probably do > > the same thing with Ubuntu, but in the Gentoo case, you start with > > nothing and build up whereas Ubuntu starts with a heck of a lot and > > you'd have to whittle down. I think it'd be easier to build a > > small system by starting with nothing than by starting with a big > > system. > > The "minimum" for Debian is basically the set of packages required to > have: a) Network connectivity working, and > b) Package management working. > > That is what you need as a bootstrap in order to install anything > else, and is indeed pretty minimal. To have less would mean you > couldn't upgrade the system. Got bored at school waiting on my group to show up for a project, so I ssh'ed home and did the following: root at zeus:~# dd if=/dev/zero of=debian-etch.img bs=1M count=300 root at zeus:~# mke2fs -j -m0 debian-etch.img root at zeus:~# mount -o loop debian-etch.img /mnt root at zeus:~# df -h /mnt Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /root/debian-etch.img 291M 11M 281M 4% /mnt root at zeus:~# debootstrap --arch amd64 etch debian-etch.img root at zeus:~# chroot /mnt root at zeus:~# apt-get install linux-image-2.6-amd64 && apt-get clean root at zeus:/# df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on sysfs 291M 200M 92M 69% /sys root at zeus:/# dpkg --get-selections |wc -l 132 So there you have it, 200mb for a complete Debian Etch bootstrapped system, including kernel and initrd, 132 packages installed in total including cron, adduser, man pages etc. apt-get says there are "9248 files and directories currently installed" in total after adding the kernel. Jamon -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 05:48:23 2008 From: tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 00:48:23 -0500 Subject: Screen scraping a 3270 terminal? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20801090950j1b6d1070wef854a0f71a23800-JsoAwUIsXouhRSP0FMvGiw@public.gmane.org m> References: <4386c5b20801090950j1b6d1070wef854a0f71a23800@mail.gmail.co m> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20080111004823.01c78d90@pop.istop.com> On Jan 9, 2008 12:50 PM, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi there, > I have a client who wants me to scrape information from a number of > web-located resources (they're all internal to their network). That's > doable, but among the resources are two 3270 terminal sessions that > have to be logged into, navigated through and then scraped. > > My normal procedure is to use curl to snatch and parse HTML from a > site, and it will suffice for the rest of the job. But how does one > programmatically parse through an old green screen application? First of all, not by parsing the data stream if you have any choice in the matter: that's a hefty manual, if memory serves. And after you pick it up, you have to *read* the manual . What terminal emulation software is in place? Many emulation packages offer programmed access to the "display" and "keyboard". ( I have used IBM Personal Communications in its incarnation as iSeries Access for this in the past. Interfaces are available for C++, Javascript, and VB; my familiarity is with the C++ interface. If Personal Communications happens to be your product, I shall try to answer questions here. ) > > I found a vendor called Jagacy (jagacy.com) that provides a Java-based > solution, but it seems to be GUI based... and I'm not that good with > Java anyway. > > Any other thoughts would be appreciated. Screen-scraping becomes attractive if it is significantly easier to navigate through the screens of the application programs than to query the underlying database. Does this in fact describe your situation? > > Cheers! > Aaron. > Terry, rent-a-geek and database bithead. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 07:40:37 2008 From: andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org (Andrew Cowie) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:40:37 +1100 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801101338j6009b112tded149fe3984f544-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <20080110211910.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801101338j6009b112tded149fe3984f544@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1200037237.16048.9.camel@moonglow.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> On Thu, 2008-01-10 at 16:38 -0500, Dave Germiquet wrote: > I also learned alot from installing gentoo. That's actually an interesting aspect. While it is wonderful that most Linux and Libre Unix distros have brilliant (and constantly improving) installation automation these days, the defining aspect of Unix has ever been being able (if you wish) to figure out what is going on and do something different if you have need. Even if you are a stalwart user of another distro (and there are all sorts of reasons why this is fine), doing a few Gentoo installs can be really educational. [I say a few because the first one is of course going to be a steep learning curve while you plow through the installation manual] Nevertheless, it makes a great second distro if you're got a good handle on the basics and you're trying to improve your systems administration skills. ++ We've been using Gentoo across the board for ~5 years now, and continue to be really impressed. Occasionally they lag behind in some of the minutiae integration issues, but on the other hand, the elegance and simplicity in their packaging system is impressive, so you can often work around / push the envelope if you need to. Their kernel team is really on the ball. It's a touch dated, but my article on the subject may be of interest http://www.operationaldynamics.com/reference/articles/GentooUnusual/ Cheers from the beach, AfC Sydney 29?C -- Andrew Frederick Cowie Managing Director Toronto: (647) 477 5603 http://www.operationaldynamics.com/ We are an operations engineering consultancy focusing on strategy, organizational architecture, systems review, and change management procedures: enabling successful use of open source in mission critical enterprises, worldwide. Sydney New York Toronto London -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 14:16:53 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:16:53 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <4786B0CD.7060800-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <473c25250712151429t3af3dbe8p4e5b1a8fd542b902@mail.gmail.com> <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109032311.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080109214943.10865.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109224638.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080110002535.13868.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080110015152.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4786B0CD.7060800@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080111141653.GN2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 06:57:01PM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > Okay, I just got printing working. So, the ip addresses obviously work. > I still have two concerns: > 1. I can't scp from another machine to this one, and > 2. These ip addresses must be assigned by the cable modem/router as I > never assigned them. How will I print if the cable modem is down (well, > my ISP)? It has happened. Without a static address I can't print across > my LAN... Your router assigns them. A cable modem would never assign a 192.168 address and your ISP only assigns you one IP, which is taken by the router since it is the gateway device and masquarades for the rest of the network. So as long as the router is working, you will get your IPs. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 14:18:26 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:18:26 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801101623y2dd23c44l50a1beb7c8a443db-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109032311.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080109214943.10865.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109224638.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080110002535.13868.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080110015152.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4786B0CD.7060800@chrisaitken.net> <32f6a8880801101623y2dd23c44l50a1beb7c8a443db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080111141826.GO2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 07:23:47PM -0500, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Well, in my local area networks I like to set up my DHCP server to set > static ip addresses by using mac addresses on the router. However you > can assign > static ip addresses however at the moment I do not have a ubuntu box > do it.. isn't there a /etc/sysconfig file you can modify. No /etc/sysconfig is a redhat'ism. There should bet /etc/network/interfaces, although quite how networkmanager gets along with that I have no idea since I have never used the network manager myself. > Do you have SSH running on your system could that be why SCP isn't working? > Can you SSH into your other systems? Yeah ssh-server would certainly be important to have installed. Of course some systems also default to not permit root ssh connections, only regular users. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 14:41:36 2008 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:41:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1-ATjtLOhZ0NVl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> References: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: The June 2004 PegaSoft meeting had a survey of web development tools. You can view the discussion of strengths and weaknesses at the following link: http://www.pegasoft.ca/minutes/june_2004.html There is, of course, my business shell, which can be embedded in web pages like PHP. But the the project is still under development. Ken B. On Mon, 7 Jan 2008, Kareem Shehata wrote: > > I'm still wrestling with the problem of choosing a good language for web > development projects. As I mentioned previously, I'm looking to get into > some web development this year, but have no idea where to start. > > I've looked into Ruby on Rails, and I have to admit the concepts of "Agile > Development" sound sweet, but is it too good to be true? Based on all of > the articles, below I don't know who to believe anymore. I simply don't > have enough time to learn every language and then pick the best one - > particularly since problems like maintenance and support can't be predicted > by a quick tutorial session. > > Here's what I've figured out, and I don't see a good option out of the > bunch. Please feel free to add your own thoughts, a good discussion on the > ins and outs of different languages would be much appreciated! > > Thanks, > > -kms > > > > PHP: The defacto web standard? It seems to be supported everywhere, scales > well, and has lots of libraries, but can be difficult to maintain and get up > to speed on. > > > Ruby On Rails: If you believe the marketing hype, it'll do everything > including walk the dog three times a day with one line of code. Is this yet > another web fad, or is RoR something worth pursuing? > > > Java: Difficult to develop with, not widely supported, and high hardware > requirements. Overall, sounds like an expensive PITA. It might be good for > enterprise-level apps with coders immersed in java for 5+ years, but not > good for smaller, quicker development-time apps. > > > ASP.NET: Gotta at least look at the MS options. I know enough of the .NET > framework that I could probably get up to speed really quickly, and MS does > a pretty good job of making things easy. They also do a very bad job of > making it flexible, scalable, or secure. Also locks in the platform to > being MS-only. > > > Python: Don't know much about python beyond Mailman. Looks like a decent > scripting language, can it do reports and interface mySQL well? > > > Perl: "The Original Web Language" and I know it has a rabid following. The > whole world can be built in Perl, but is it the best way to go? > > > Some site references: > Ruby on Rails debate > > (the martial arts and melodrama doesn't scare me, but idea of the community > imploding definitely does. I don't plan on supporting this app forever, so > having something maintainable by others is really big) > > > 1.html> > More of the Ruby on Rails debate. > > > > Comparisons > > Are any of these accurate? > > ison.html> > > Any other good articles comparing languages/toolsets/platforms for web > development? > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 14:53:00 2008 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:53:00 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <1200037237.16048.9.camel-OsHlLiK0t3YlsMdPJzOpMKof79hy4C9OJlkDCAVGkpAO4ta96kjR9g@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <20080110211910.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801101338j6009b112tded149fe3984f544@mail.gmail.com> <1200037237.16048.9.camel@moonglow.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> Message-ID: <20080111145300.GB29416@adb.ca> Andrew Cowie wrote: > On Thu, 2008-01-10 at 16:38 -0500, Dave Germiquet wrote: > > I also learned alot from installing gentoo. > > That's actually an interesting aspect. While it is wonderful that most > Linux and Libre Unix distros have brilliant (and constantly improving) > installation automation these days, the defining aspect of Unix has ever > been being able (if you wish) to figure out what is going on and do > something different if you have need. > > Even if you are a stalwart user of another distro (and there are all > sorts of reasons why this is fine), doing a few Gentoo installs can be > really educational. I use it too, but it's not something I'd recommend to the faint-hearted, or to anyone who isn't prepared to dig in and learn and apply practical Unix skills. Another positive aspect of Gentoo is that it ensures that I get the source to *all* of the software I have installed, so it's easy to go look at later, and I don't have to go searching the Internet for it and wondering if what I found actually builds to the version I have installed. As a programmer/sysadmin, the "source" part of "open source" is a key thing to me. When I want something that's not already in Portage, rolling my own in /usr/local/portage is easy enough to do, instead of a manual build, and I can contribute that back to the project. Being able to set major USE flags, and say that a server will not have NLS or X if it doesn't need it, or the workstation might not need LDAP, keeps the size and complexity of the install down, and reduces the frequency of security updates that I need to apply. That beats a binary distro that has to build packages with everything optional turned on in case some user wants it. There's also the incremental nature of the thing; you get the latest versions of key packages as they're released and tested, rather than waiting for a distro that has release cycles to cycle around to the newer software. That also means that I'm not having to download huge ISO images and wipe and reinstall either, or getting way behind the leading edge by being stuck on an older release. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 15:51:50 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:51:50 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <20080111145300.GB29416-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <20080110211910.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801101338j6009b112tded149fe3984f544@mail.gmail.com> <1200037237.16048.9.camel@moonglow.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> <20080111145300.GB29416@adb.ca> Message-ID: <20080111155150.GP2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 09:53:00AM -0500, Anthony de Boer wrote: > I use it too, but it's not something I'd recommend to the faint-hearted, > or to anyone who isn't prepared to dig in and learn and apply practical > Unix skills. > > Another positive aspect of Gentoo is that it ensures that I get the source > to *all* of the software I have installed, so it's easy to go look at > later, and I don't have to go searching the Internet for it and wondering > if what I found actually builds to the version I have installed. As a > programmer/sysadmin, the "source" part of "open source" is a key thing to > me. Well running Debian I don't worry about that. I know the package is built from the source with the same version number. > When I want something that's not already in Portage, rolling my own in > /usr/local/portage is easy enough to do, instead of a manual build, and I > can contribute that back to the project. > > Being able to set major USE flags, and say that a server will not have > NLS or X if it doesn't need it, or the workstation might not need LDAP, > keeps the size and complexity of the install down, and reduces the > frequency of security updates that I need to apply. That beats a binary > distro that has to build packages with everything optional turned on in > case some user wants it. Many things are modular in which case you only install the parts you need. It also means the binary you use is the binary that was tested by lots of people rather than some unusual config that only you run that might not even be a configuration the developer of the program expected anyone to run. > There's also the incremental nature of the thing; you get the latest > versions of key packages as they're released and tested, rather than > waiting for a distro that has release cycles to cycle around to the > newer software. That also means that I'm not having to download huge > ISO images and wipe and reinstall either, or getting way behind the > leading edge by being stuck on an older release. Nothing prevents people running Debian unstable release which gives you things as they come, bugs and issues and all, although most if the time it just works. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 16:10:43 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:10:43 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080111141653.GN2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <473c25250712151429t3af3dbe8p4e5b1a8fd542b902@mail.gmail.com> <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109032311.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080109214943.10865.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109224638.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080110002535.13868.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080110015152.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4786B0CD.7060800@chrisaitken.net> <20080111141653.GN2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <47879503.6010209@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 06:57:01PM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: >> Okay, I just got printing working. So, the ip addresses obviously work. >> I still have two concerns: >> 1. I can't scp from another machine to this one, and >> 2. These ip addresses must be assigned by the cable modem/router as I >> never assigned them. How will I print if the cable modem is down (well, >> my ISP)? It has happened. Without a static address I can't print across >> my LAN... > > Your router assigns them. A cable modem would never assign a 192.168 > address and your ISP only assigns you one IP, which is taken by the > router since it is the gateway device and masquarades for the rest of > the network. So as long as the router is working, you will get your > IPs. Actually, some do. For example, I bought one from Rogers a couple of years ago, and when in off-line mode it will act as a DHCP server, handing out those addresses. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 18:37:49 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:37:49 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <47879503.6010209-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080109032311.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080109214943.10865.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109224638.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080110002535.13868.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080110015152.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4786B0CD.7060800@chrisaitken.net> <20080111141653.GN2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47879503.6010209@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080111183749.GQ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 11:10:43AM -0500, James Knott wrote: > Actually, some do. For example, I bought one from Rogers a couple of > years ago, and when in off-line mode it will act as a DHCP server, > handing out those addresses. When off line you aren't getting anything from your ISP. The cable modem was handing them out, not the ISP. It wouldn't even have been anything the ISP could configure in the modem I suspect. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 20:38:22 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 15:38:22 -0500 Subject: how to find out how long a TCP connection has been made Message-ID: <32f6a8880801111238x2a0c155ey9df4db11a7e84869@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, If I want to find out how long a TCP connection has been established how would I do that? Would it be using this option: -o, --timers Include information related to networking timers. It returns something like this: tcp 0 0 127.0.0.1:3308 127.0.0.1:38988 ESTABLISHED keepalive (5442.87/0/0) So My guess is its been connected for 5442, but I'm having trouble finding if I am understanding correctly. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 20:43:59 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 15:43:59 -0500 Subject: how to find out how long a TCP connection has been made In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801111238x2a0c155ey9df4db11a7e84869-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880801111238x2a0c155ey9df4db11a7e84869@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880801111243n7a3ca546qdd968c7b195d2225@mail.gmail.com> I apologize, I forgot to mention what command I am using. The application I am using and parameters are: # netstat -ano On Jan 11, 2008 3:38 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi All, > > If I want to find out how long a TCP connection has been established > how would I do that? > > Would it be using this option: > > -o, --timers > Include information related to networking timers. > > It returns something like this: > > tcp 0 0 127.0.0.1:3308 127.0.0.1:38988 > ESTABLISHED keepalive (5442.87/0/0) > > So My guess is its been connected for 5442, but I'm having trouble > finding if I am understanding correctly. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 23:11:57 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:11:57 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080111141826.GO2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109032311.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080109214943.10865.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109224638.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080110002535.13868.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080110015152.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4786B0CD.7060800@chrisaitken.net> <32f6a8880801101623y2dd23c44l50a1beb7c8a443db@mail.gmail.com> <20080111141826.GO2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080111231157.22527.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Lennart Sorensen writes: > On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 07:23:47PM -0500, Dave Germiquet wrote: >> Well, in my local area networks I like to set up my DHCP server to set >> static ip addresses by using mac addresses on the router. However you >> can assign >> static ip addresses however at the moment I do not have a ubuntu box >> do it.. isn't there a /etc/sysconfig file you can modify. > > No /etc/sysconfig is a redhat'ism. There should bet > /etc/network/interfaces, although quite how networkmanager gets along > with that I have no idea since I have never used the network manager > myself. > >> Do you have SSH running on your system could that be why SCP isn't working? >> Can you SSH into your other systems? > > Yeah ssh-server would certainly be important to have installed. Of > course some systems also default to not permit root ssh connections, > only regular users. devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install ssh-server [sudo] password for devon: Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Package ssh-server is a virtual package provided by: openssh-server 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 lsh-server 2.0.2-1.1 You should explicitly select one to install. E: Package ssh-server has no installation candidate devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install openssh-server 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done E: Couldn't find package 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install lsh-server 2.0.2-1.1 Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done E: Couldn't find package 2.0.2-1.1 devon at devon:~$ Hmmm, I don't remember taking any crazy pills... Chris > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 23:45:19 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:45:19 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080111231157.22527.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080109214943.10865.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109224638.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080110002535.13868.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080110015152.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4786B0CD.7060800@chrisaitken.net> <32f6a8880801101623y2dd23c44l50a1beb7c8a443db@mail.gmail.com> <20080111141826.GO2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080111231157.22527.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880801111545mad6f02bm7c8a41182ccfac60@mail.gmail.com> Try just doing this: apt-get install openssh-server That should work. On Jan 11, 2008 6:11 PM, wrote: > Lennart Sorensen writes: > > > On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 07:23:47PM -0500, Dave Germiquet wrote: > >> Well, in my local area networks I like to set up my DHCP server to set > >> static ip addresses by using mac addresses on the router. However you > >> can assign > >> static ip addresses however at the moment I do not have a ubuntu box > >> do it.. isn't there a /etc/sysconfig file you can modify. > > > > No /etc/sysconfig is a redhat'ism. There should bet > > /etc/network/interfaces, although quite how networkmanager gets along > > with that I have no idea since I have never used the network manager > > myself. > > > >> Do you have SSH running on your system could that be why SCP isn't working? > >> Can you SSH into your other systems? > > > > Yeah ssh-server would certainly be important to have installed. Of > > course some systems also default to not permit root ssh connections, > > only regular users. > > devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install ssh-server > [sudo] password for devon: > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree > Reading state information... Done > Package ssh-server is a virtual package provided by: > openssh-server 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 > lsh-server 2.0.2-1.1 > You should explicitly select one to install. > E: Package ssh-server has no installation candidate > devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install openssh-server 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree > Reading state information... Done > E: Couldn't find package 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 > devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install lsh-server 2.0.2-1.1 > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree > Reading state information... Done > E: Couldn't find package 2.0.2-1.1 > devon at devon:~$ > > Hmmm, I don't remember taking any crazy pills... > > Chris > > > > -- > > Len Sorensen > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 12 00:15:10 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 19:15:10 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <5bef4baf0801090707l22cf43b6r5c7287d34d969bf0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <5bef4baf0801090707l22cf43b6r5c7287d34d969bf0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47880674.1038400a.4b86.ffffbb30@mx.google.com> _____ From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Richard Dice Sent: Wednesday 09 January 2008 10:07 To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Debating web development toolsets Kareem, Know Thyself -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_thyself * What is your purpose for getting into web development? * What is your expectation for growth of the web development project? * Do you plan on having other people join in on this project in the future? If so, in what capacity? * Do you have a customer you will be doing this for? Do they have specific needs or expectations that one web development framework will address more readily than others? * What is your existing skill-base in various aspects of web programming? (I.e. programming, design/layout, graphics, UI design) * Do you want to play to your strengths (perhaps because your goal is to get the job done ASAP) or do you want to broaden your skills (because this is a learning project)? I.e. do you pick something similar to what you already know or quite different from what you already know? Don't look at technology first. Look at what your goals and circumstances are first and then pick the technology that is most suitable. (And don't expect to find a "perfect" technology -- first, there is no such thing, and second it is quite possible that several of your goals will be mutually exclusive and therefore you have to make best-compromises between your goals, and so you should expect your technology choice to reflect best-compromises as well.) All very true, and indeed I'm asking myself many of these questions. My purpose is not entirely well defined, but the projects I'm looking at are coming together and I needed to get an idea of what's out there. It'll both help with the decision making process, and for my own education. That and the debate's been fun. At this point, it's early enough in the process that I at least have the ability to make an informed technology choice and also to educate myself on what might be "best practices". I'm hoping that will make things easier down the line, instead of just going with what I know right now. Thanks! -kms -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 12 00:28:02 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 19:28:02 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47880972.1039400a.3897.ffffa834@mx.google.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Alex > Beamish > Sent: Wednesday 09 January 2008 10:39 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Debating web development toolsets > > In addition to Richard's excellent post, also keep in mind how large a > team you are working with, and what resources you can rely upon > outside that team. My situation is that I'm the only web developer at > my company, which means that for any web type challenges I have to > rely on places like Perlmonks [1] and the #perl and #apache IRC > channels. Don't necessarily make your choice based on technology -- > also think about how you're going to be able to get support and > feedback for it. Support is actually what drove this question in the first place. Reading the "Agile manifesto", Ruby sounds like a panacea, but if there's no one else to support it then it's not an option. So I thought I'd check. > Also think about trying something simple in a couple of languages, and > see how you do. You might find that you love PHP; you might discover > that RoR is really difficult (I haven't used it myself, I'm just > throwing out ideas here). Try as many options as possible and see what > works for you. Yup, it's starting to look like I'm going to need to get through a few tutorials. But that will only give me a very shallow impression of a language, so I wanted to get the ideas and impressions from people with far more experience. At least now I have some good ideas of what to look for and look at. > I liked Perl pretty well from the start, because it really did 'fit my > brain' .. but in addition to that, CPAN [2] is a great resource of > software modules that are tested, pre-packaged and ready to go; and > there is a local user group, the Toronto Perlmongers [3] with their > own mailing list and monthly get-togethers. And I've progressed from > ugly CGI scripts in 1998 that contained HTML code to really nice > web/database applications written using CGI::Application and > Template::Toolkit running under mod_perl. I believe it was Zbigniew who first commented that I should look at what else I can do with the language, and that has me seriously considering Python. If it seems to fit, then that might end up being what I go with. I've played with Perl just enough to know that it's not exactly my style, even though it can do just about everything and anything. > And I loved the earlier quote about how "There are a number of rabid > old school fans of Perl, but it's been supplanted by PHP." .. Perl is > actually alive and well; version 5.10 was just released last month -- > Perl's not disappearing any time soon. :) Really. No, Perl 6 isn't > ready yet, but work continues .. and in the mean time, Perl (5.8 or > 5.10) is a great language to use. And I hope that doesn't sound too > rabid. ;) I think I may have said something about rabid fans, which isn't a bad thing - in fact, it shows that there's lots of support - it's just hard sometimes to get past the bias to really understand where things are. I have no doubt that Perl is alive and well and probably great for a lot of things, it's understand what it is (and isn't) good for. > Good luck, and let us know how it goes. Will do, thanks for all of the great ideas! -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 12 02:07:04 2008 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:07:04 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <20080111155150.GP2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <20080110211910.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801101338j6009b112tded149fe3984f544@mail.gmail.com> <1200037237.16048.9.camel@moonglow.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> <20080111145300.GB29416@adb.ca> <20080111155150.GP2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080112020704.GE29416@adb.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 09:53:00AM -0500, Anthony de Boer wrote: > > Another positive aspect of Gentoo is that it ensures that I get the source > > to *all* of the software I have installed, so it's easy to go look at > > later, and I don't have to go searching the Internet for it and wondering > > if what I found actually builds to the version I have installed. As a > > programmer/sysadmin, the "source" part of "open source" is a key thing to > > me. > > Well running Debian I don't worry about that. I know the package is > built from the source with the same version number. Interestingly enough, one of the mottos in the Gentoo community is "If You Want Debian, You Know Where To Find It". I was talking to one of the key Debian people awhile ago, and he said that the percentage of source downloads relative to binary downloads on the Debian FTP mirrors is rather small. People are happy with it, but they're not looking under the sheets. And you _can_ find Red Hat source RPMSs (SRPMs) too, if you look hard enough. However, I don't _want_ to run a binary distribution like Debian or Fedora or Microsoft Windows where you get binaries somebody else built. I want the SOURCE. Don't get between me and the source code. I want to see source, and I want to see it building. Call me a programmer or something, but source code is important to me. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 12 13:03:58 2008 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 08:03:58 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1200143038.29874.1230852945@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:36:07 -0500, "Tyler Aviss" said: > Any Gentoo desktop users out there? I'm a long time Debian user but recently bought a Zonbu low-power, silent, micro-PC (Via C7 Eden CPU). The company sells the hardware + customized Gentoo + monthly support subscription which includes location of your /home/ on a 50G space on Amazon.com's servers. The o/s boots off a CF card. The Zonbu is intended to be a zero-maintenance setup for newbies, but from their forums I gather there's a mix of new and experienced Linux users. I don't know Gentoo well enough to know why they choose it for this project - maybe the ease of compiling all software for the Via CPU using USE flags. The Zonbu is actually very slick - no glitches. It's perfect for getting a newbie onto Linux when you can't be there to support them. ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 12 14:04:05 2008 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:04:05 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <47880972.1039400a.3897.ffffa834-ATjtLOhZ0NVl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> References: <47880972.1039400a.3897.ffffa834@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1200146645.5731.1230858311@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 19:28:02 -0500, "Kareem Shehata" said: > I believe it was Zbigniew who first commented that I should look at > what else I can do with the language, and that has me seriously > considering Python. If it seems to fit, then that might end up being > what I go with. Re 'what else I can do with the language', I don't think many realize how extensively Python is used as a general purpose language. RedHat, Gentoo, Ubuntu, and Gnome use it as their primarily mid-level system development language. Google runs Google Groups with it. A huge amount of web traffic runs on it via Bittorrent. HP pre-installs it on all their Pavillion Windows PC's. You can automate your Mac with it. It is widely used in science and engineering, e.g. SimPy is the leading open source simulations project. ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 12 16:21:54 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:21:54 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801111545mad6f02bm7c8a41182ccfac60-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080109214943.10865.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109224638.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080110002535.13868.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080110015152.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4786B0CD.7060800@chrisaitken.net> <32f6a8880801101623y2dd23c44l50a1beb7c8a443db@mail.gmail.com> <20080111141826.GO2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080111231157.22527.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <32f6a8880801111545mad6f02bm7c8a41182ccfac60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4788E922.1020306@chrisaitken.net> Dave Germiquet wrote: > Try just doing this: > > apt-get install openssh-server > > That should work. > No, that's the first thing I tried (look in this email) - I'll cut & paste here (from the bottom of this email): devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install ssh-server [sudo] password for devon: Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Package ssh-server is a virtual package provided by: openssh-server 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 lsh-server 2.0.2-1.1 You should explicitly select one to install. E: Package ssh-server has no installation candidate > On Jan 11, 2008 6:11 PM, wrote: > >> Lennart Sorensen writes: >> >> >>> On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 07:23:47PM -0500, Dave Germiquet wrote: >>> >>>> Well, in my local area networks I like to set up my DHCP server to set >>>> static ip addresses by using mac addresses on the router. However you >>>> can assign >>>> static ip addresses however at the moment I do not have a ubuntu box >>>> do it.. isn't there a /etc/sysconfig file you can modify. >>>> >>> No /etc/sysconfig is a redhat'ism. There should bet >>> /etc/network/interfaces, although quite how networkmanager gets along >>> with that I have no idea since I have never used the network manager >>> myself. >>> >>> >>>> Do you have SSH running on your system could that be why SCP isn't working? >>>> Can you SSH into your other systems? >>>> >>> Yeah ssh-server would certainly be important to have installed. Of >>> course some systems also default to not permit root ssh connections, >>> only regular users. >>> >> devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install ssh-server >> [sudo] password for devon: >> Reading package lists... Done >> Building dependency tree >> Reading state information... Done >> Package ssh-server is a virtual package provided by: >> openssh-server 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 >> lsh-server 2.0.2-1.1 >> You should explicitly select one to install. >> E: Package ssh-server has no installation candidate >> devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install openssh-server 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 >> Reading package lists... Done >> Building dependency tree >> Reading state information... Done >> E: Couldn't find package 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 >> devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install lsh-server 2.0.2-1.1 >> Reading package lists... Done >> Building dependency tree >> Reading state information... Done >> E: Couldn't find package 2.0.2-1.1 >> devon at devon:~$ >> >> Hmmm, I don't remember taking any crazy pills... >> >> Chris >> >> >> >>> -- >>> Len Sorensen >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 12 16:36:18 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:36:18 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 Message-ID: <4788EC82.1010909@chrisaitken.net> With my (still relatively) new ubuntu instalation I haven't tried to get my emu 1212 m pci soundcard working. I did this successfully a while back when I had fedora 7 on the box. I just re-read all the emails from that and it seems that the only thing I did to make it work was getting the latest alsa on the machine. Would the following be a good way to start?: sudo apt-get install alsa sudo apt-get install alsa-firmware sudo apt-get instal alsa-lib Please note that this time I'm asking /before/ I do careless stuff. I think it's better to thrash-talk than thrash about in my computer... Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 12 16:39:24 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:39:24 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <4788EC82.1010909-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4788EC82.1010909@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <4788ED3C.1030007@chrisaitken.net> Christopher Aitken wrote: > With my (still relatively) new ubuntu instalation I haven't tried to > get my emu 1212 m pci soundcard working. I did this successfully a > while back when I had fedora 7 on the box. I just re-read all the > emails from that and it seems that the only thing I did to make it > work was getting the latest alsa on the machine. Would the following > be a good way to start?: > > > sudo apt-get install alsa > sudo apt-get install alsa-firmware > sudo apt-get instal alsa-lib > > Please note that this time I'm asking /before/ I do careless stuff. I > think it's better to thrash-talk than thrash about in my computer... chris at cpc:~$ cat /proc/asound/version Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Driver Version 1.0.14 (Thu May 31 09:03:25 2007 UTC). > > Chris > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 12 16:43:45 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:43:45 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <4788ED3C.1030007-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4788EC82.1010909@chrisaitken.net> <4788ED3C.1030007@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <4788EE41.9090105@chrisaitken.net> Christopher Aitken wrote: > chris at cpc:~$ cat /proc/asound/version > Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Driver Version 1.0.14 (Thu May 31 > 09:03:25 2007 UTC). When I open alsamixer all it shows me is the onboard card (Intel 82801BA-ICH2). > >> >> Chris >> -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 12 17:23:44 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:23:44 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <4788E922.1020306-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4788E922.1020306@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <4788f7a6.131f400a.0848.ffff9925@mx.google.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of > Christopher Aitken > Sent: Saturday 12 January 2008 11:22 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Re:D'oh! > > Dave Germiquet wrote: > > Try just doing this: > > > > apt-get install openssh-server > > > > That should work. > > > No, that's the first thing I tried (look in this email) - I'll cut & > paste here (from the bottom of this email): > > devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install ssh-server > [sudo] password for devon: > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree > Reading state information... Done > Package ssh-server is a virtual package provided by: > openssh-server 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 > lsh-server 2.0.2-1.1 > You should explicitly select one to install. > E: Package ssh-server has no installation candidate Compare: > > apt-get install openssh-server > devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install ssh-server Try the command again, this time make sure you specify "openssh-server". -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 13 04:40:15 2008 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 23:40:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: Lady needs ride, College/Spadina to New TLUG In-Reply-To: <4788f7a6.131f400a.0848.ffff9925-ATjtLOhZ0NVl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> References: <4788E922.1020306@chrisaitken.net> <4788f7a6.131f400a.0848.ffff9925@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1156.207.253.57.13.1200199215.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> A lady needs a ride, from the area near College Street and Spadina, to New T.L.U.G. It is a block south of College Street, and north of the Vietnamese restaurant at 350 Spadina. Please contact me at the E-mail address following: J. E. McIntosh - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 13 23:38:06 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:38:06 -0500 Subject: Debating web development toolsets In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20801071249k291bb058nef1af2af6621468d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <47828df7.0c69400a.4021.49c1@mx.google.com> <4386c5b20801071249k291bb058nef1af2af6621468d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478AA0DE.7020503@dinamis.com> Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi Kareem, > >> I've looked into Ruby on Rails, and I have to admit the concepts of "Agile >> Development" sound sweet, but is it too good to be true? > > I've taken some time to learn Rails, and have found it enforces a lot > of great coding practices, such as MVC. The limitations are that it > makes a lot of things easy, but the functionality that you want to > integrate becomes very hard. > >> PHP: The defacto web standard? It seems to be supported everywhere, scales >> well, and has lots of libraries, but can be difficult to maintain and get up >> to speed on. > > I also think you'll find there are more PHP developers than any other > kind out there. It has broad support on any platform, has a very large > community behind it. From our previous discussion I can see that many > people think it's insecure, but again, with good coding practices you > can alleviate that point. I don't honestly think that it's hard to get > up to speed on. I know of a certain operating system that is ubiquitous and yet, it is not particularly good. If popularity meant good, that OS, and PHP, would be the best technologies in their respective categories. I used to use PHP but there is nothing I miss about it. PHP is as ubiquitous as it is because it started out as a totally different thing than what it has become, not because it is good. It started out as an extension to HTML and but it has eventually morphed into a crappy, bloated, and slow language. Name a language in which the op-code optimizer crashing would be considered acceptable . The workaround to this is apparently to restart Apache with a cron job, just in case the opcode optimizer has segfaulted. Crazy. >> Ruby On Rails: If you believe the marketing hype, it'll do everything >> including walk the dog three times a day with one line of code. Is this yet >> another web fad, or is RoR something worth pursuing? > > I definitely think it's worth pursuing. If I were starting out today > I'd probably be neck deep into Rails. It has a large community, and > there's no question that it's a legitimate environment. Rails isn't > going anywhere. Not to mention that learning Ruby will give you > leverage in other parts of your computing life, as it's a full-on > object oriented language. I have used and developed Omnis (a proprietary 4GL), PHP, Drupal, Zope 2 and 3, Plone, WebWare for Python, and Django web applications. I have evaluated Ruby, RoR, Perl, Java, .NET, Boo, Pylons, and TurboGears. I realize I am mixing languages and frameworks but my interest in the language sparked my interest in frameworks in that language, not the other way around. PHP is by far the worst of the languages I have used or evaluated. Ask an experienced PHP developer how they debug PHP applications and they will start mumbling and looking at their shoes. The debugging is primitive, at best, and most resort to just printing things out in the browser, which is a lame replacement for a good debugger. No namespaces, object orientation that is primitive by comparison to Python or Ruby, a worthless interactive shell, miserable debugging facilities, useless error messages, and a standard function library that desperately needs to be refactored all conspire to make PHP one of the worst of choices. Perl did not look like it was meant to be read by humans so I gave it a pass. I saw nothing compelling about it. It is supposedly a good language for system scripting but I find I can accomplish what I need with Python. Ruby looked interesting but I gave it a pass because at the time, it did not support Unicode, its documentation was quite poor (unless you could read Japanese), it was slow, and the variety of modules and extensions were limited by comparison to Python. If you are detecting a bias towards Python, you would be right. Python is compact, clean, and quite often, the way to do something in Python is quite obvious. I criticized PHP for primitive debugging and the irony is that I rarely use Python's very capable debugger, pdb, because the Python interactive shell is good enough for me to spot problems right away when I am doing web development. I did use pdb more frequently when I was developing PyQt and PyGTK applications. Speaking of the Python interactive shell, I highly recommend ipython as a replacement shell. Python is a general-purpose language. I have used it for system scripting, something for which people normally use Perl, for GUI application development, and for web application development. It has excellent support for various databases, PDF libraries (Reportlab), a variety of GUI library bindings, wxPython, PyQt, and PyGTK, to name a few, and plenty of useful and well-supported modules. As others have pointed out, some Linux distros, like Red Hat, use Python extensively. There is one, Pardus, that uses Python for package management and init. It is relatively easy to incorporate C or C++ code in Python. In my opinion, there is no other interpreted language that is quite as versatile and covers such a broad range of applications as Python. There is also an implementation of Python on the .NET framework, IronPython, but if you prefer to stick with the standard Python, which is also known as CPython since core bits are developed in C, there are excellent platform-specific modules for Windows, OS X, and Linux. Python does not impose a particular style of coding on the developer. You can write procedural, object-oriented, or functional code. It is your choice. >> Java: > > Bah. > >> ASP.NET: > > Double-bah! You can't seriously expect a good answer on this list. ;-) > >> Python: > > Not familiar with this, but Python isn't exactly known for its > suitability for web app development. ... by you, apparently :) There are many capable Python-based web application frameworks. In fact, a running joke is that you cannot really be a Python developer unless you have developed your own Python web framework. Python excels at web application development. There is a rich array of choices, too many for some people perhaps, and well thought-out deployment models. Django, one of my favourite Python-based frameworks, is every bit as good as any web framework as I have evaluated or used and it strikes the right balance between flexibility and rigidity. Django is agnostic when it comes to databases (SQLite, MySQL, PostgreSQL are all well-supported and there are people who are using it with Oracle), agnostic when it comes to JavaScript libraries, and it does not provide any schema evolution capability because non-trivial cases are very hard to get right. With a couple of lines of code, you can have auto-generated CRUD forms for free in the admin interface. Those forms are often good enough for many applications. That sounds like damning by faint praise but it is not meant to be so. The forms look and behave better than 90% of the forms on the web but it will depend on the particular use case if they will suffice or not. If they do not, creating your own forms in Django is quite simple. I meet many PHP refugees on irc.freenode.net, #django whose first exposure to Python is through Django. They are learning both at the same time. That is a testament to how approachable Python and Django both are. Django has excellent documentation and a very helpful and active community. The tutorial was good enough to get me started with it but I had already been using Python for a few years prior to encountering Django. If you would like to try Django, do not hesitate to check out svn trunk. With very few exceptions, I have not had a problem with tracking trunk. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 13 23:55:12 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:55:12 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <20080112020704.GE29416-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <20080110211910.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801101338j6009b112tded149fe3984f544@mail.gmail.com> <1200037237.16048.9.camel@moonglow.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> <20080111145300.GB29416@adb.ca> <20080111155150.GP2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080112020704.GE29416@adb.ca> Message-ID: <478AA4E0.3000003@dinamis.com> Anthony de Boer wrote: > I was talking to one of the key Debian people awhile ago, and he said > that the percentage of source downloads relative to binary downloads > on the Debian FTP mirrors is rather small. People are happy with it, > but they're not looking under the sheets. > > And you _can_ find Red Hat source RPMSs (SRPMs) too, if you look hard > enough. "If you look hard enough" implies that SRPMs are not easy to find. That is absolutely not true. > However, I don't _want_ to run a binary distribution like Debian or > Fedora or Microsoft Windows where you get binaries somebody else built. > I want the SOURCE. Don't get between me and the source code. I want > to see source, and I want to see it building. If seeing compiler output on the console gives you the illusion of greater control, building an SRPM is not going to shatter that illusion. You can see lots of "useful information" spewed onto the console with SRPMs too. Nothing stops you from using the build system that a binary distro uses to build from source. That most choose not to use that facility does not mean it does not exist. After all, the binary RPMs had to be built somehow. > Call me a programmer or > something, but source code is important to me. You have it with other distros too. On balance, I think Gentoo's negatives outweigh the positives. The last time I tried Gentoo, there was a major change in the version of gcc. That required a rebuild of the toolchain and then a subsequent rebuild of the system. One of the purported advantages of Gentoo is supposed to be that you never have to reinstall but instead you do rolling upgrades. I eventually discovered that it was way too much hassle to upgrade with a major change, like a gcc/glibc version change. It required multiple passes and how many passes were required was non-deterministic. I came to the conclusion that it was easier to reinstall from scratch than troubleshoot and deal with the many packages that broke during the upgrade process. If I have to reinstall anyway, I would rather do it with a binary distro, thank you very much. As Lennart has pointed out, using a binary distro where many others use the same package with the same compilation options makes it more likely that if you are experiencing a problem, it will also be experienced by others as well and thus, it will be more likely you will find a solution. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hdevalence-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 00:42:30 2008 From: hdevalence-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Henry de Valence) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:42:30 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <478AA4E0.3000003-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <20080112020704.GE29416@adb.ca> <478AA4E0.3000003@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <200801131942.30418.hdevalence@gmail.com> On Sunday 13 January 2008 6:55:12 pm CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Anthony de Boer wrote: > > And you _can_ find Red Hat source RPMSs (SRPMs) too, if you look hard > > enough. > > "If you look hard enough" implies that SRPMs are not easy to find. That > is absolutely not true. Also on a Debian-based system, you apt-build or apt-get source. -- Harry de Valence -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 01:43:29 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 20:43:29 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <4788EC82.1010909-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4788EC82.1010909@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <478ABE41.3050504@chrisaitken.net> Christopher Aitken wrote: > With my (still relatively) new ubuntu instalation I haven't tried to > get my emu 1212 m pci soundcard working. I did this successfully a > while back when I had fedora 7 on the box. I just re-read all the > emails from that and it seems that the only thing I did to make it > work was getting the latest alsa on the machine. Would the following > be a good way to start?: > > > sudo apt-get install alsa I guess that one is unnecessary: chris at cpc:~$ sudo apt-get install alsa [sudo] password for chris: Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Note, selecting alsa-base instead of alsa alsa-base is already the newest version. 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 22 not upgraded. chris at cpc:~$ > sudo apt-get install alsa-firmware > sudo apt-get instal alsa-lib > > Please note that this time I'm asking /before/ I do careless stuff. I > think it's better to thrash-talk than thrash about in my computer... > > Chris > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 01:51:04 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 20:51:04 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <200801131942.30418.hdevalence-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <20080112020704.GE29416@adb.ca> <478AA4E0.3000003@dinamis.com> <200801131942.30418.hdevalence@gmail.com> Message-ID: <478AC008.2020000@dinamis.com> Henry de Valence wrote: > On Sunday 13 January 2008 6:55:12 pm CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >> Anthony de Boer wrote: >>> And you _can_ find Red Hat source RPMSs (SRPMs) too, if you look hard >>> enough. >> "If you look hard enough" implies that SRPMs are not easy to find. That >> is absolutely not true. > Also on a Debian-based system, you apt-build or apt-get source. Indeed. I am typing this on my desktop machine, which is running Debian Etch. We run RPM-based and apt-based distros in our hosting operation. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 01:59:11 2008 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 20:59:11 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080114015911.GA20461@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 03:36:07PM -0500, Tyler Aviss wrote > I've been a long-term Debian user, but though I do love apt, I tend to > find that it falls short in some cases. In particular, I haven't been > overly pleased with using an AMD64 desktop vs the packages available > using IA32, even for newer Debian-derived distros such as Ubuntu. > > Since I use my more powerful machine as part desktop, part workhouse, > I'm interesting in switching to Gentoo as a desktop distro. I've heard > good things about it in terms of performance server-wise, and am > wondering if anyone has had much experience using it as a > workstation/desktop (and as such, what's the availability of desktop > software, media packages, etc like). Generally everything that's available for linux. There are well over 12,000 apps/libs/etc (not counting different versions). I don't know if the mailing list would appreciate a 66 kbyte zip file of a listing of my /etc/portage directory > Any Gentoo desktop users out there? Me, me, me. One word of warning; it's like a manual transmission. You have more control than with an automatic. If you floor the gas pedal and leave it there, you'll blow up the engine. Similarly, if you make some stupid choices with Gentoo, it'll blow up on you. Here are my flags for my machine with an AMD CPU. CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -march=athlon -m3dnow -mmmx -msse -msse2 -mfpmath=sse" CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}" MAKEOPTS="-j1" This gets the most out of the machine without going into "Gentoo Ricer mode". USE flags are a separate consideration, and depend heavily on what you want to use the machine for. Up until this past summer, I used a 1999 Dell with a 450 mhz PIII, and 128 megs of main ram. I used blackbox WM on it, and it was actually quite reasonable. Where it did run into problems was... - stuttering and dropped frames with "internet TV" - working on 2560x1920 digital photos with GIMP was "leisurely" Everything else was almost as responsive as the "latest/greatest" machine. My motto is "I don't run desktops, I run applications". I tried GNOME and KDE a couple of times, and it was painfull. I've stayed with Blackbox mostly out of inertia. It does what I need. -- Walter Dnes I'm not repeating myself I'm an X Window user... I'm an ex-Windows-user -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 04:15:18 2008 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 23:15:18 -0500 Subject: Printing finally works! Message-ID: <1200284118.15620.16.camel@aragorn> Hello I wish to share the good news that printing finally works on my Edubuntu system. I have had to deal with a wireless printer (A Brother MFC 640CW) that has essentially been a paperweight in Linux, even with the Linux drivers provided by Brother. Ok, so it is still a paperweight. But I have been able to print on my wife's colour laser (an HP2550) for which no Linux driver exists that I know of. I just set it up using Ubuntu's "system-config-printer.py" script and it all seems to "kind of work". The printer runs on a Windows XP system, so it looks as though I am essentially using the Windows drivers to post-process the documents to the printer. I have not had the time to shoehorn printer services into my system, and I am glad there was a quick method to make use of my existing printer services. There was a time years ago when I would have done everything I could to get it to work, because I had the time. As for the MFC printer, print jobs get sent and as if it was carrying on the grand old tradition begun by Bill Gates: it happily accepts my job, then doesn't print it, and doesn't report any error. Even more to this tradition, I believe last time I checked that Ubuntu thinks that the "device is working properly". It's pretty sad, frankly. But at least I have now given myself one less reason to use Windows. Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 08:55:17 2008 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David C. Chipman) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 03:55:17 -0500 Subject: Screen scraping a 3270 terminal? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20801090950j1b6d1070wef854a0f71a23800-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20801090950j1b6d1070wef854a0f71a23800@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080114035517.696050ed@david.chipman> Hi Aaron, Have you looked into using 'expect(1)'? That might do what you want. Also, did you consider trying to use ssh, and sending it's output to a file? I don't know if these will solve your problem, and if not I'm sorry. BTW, why dose the terminal being a 3270 matter? Later, -David Chipman -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 09:41:33 2008 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 04:41:33 -0500 Subject: Screen scraping a 3270 terminal? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20801090950j1b6d1070wef854a0f71a23800-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20801090950j1b6d1070wef854a0f71a23800@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <018901c85691$ab866f20$02934d60$@com> I have no solution, only heartfelt condolences. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Aaron > Vegh > Sent: January 9, 2008 12:51 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Screen scraping a 3270 terminal? > > Hi there, > I have a client who wants me to scrape information from a number of > web-located resources (they're all internal to their network). That's > doable, but among the resources are two 3270 terminal sessions that > have to be logged into, navigated through and then scraped. > > My normal procedure is to use curl to snatch and parse HTML from a > site, and it will suffice for the rest of the job. But how does one > programmatically parse through an old green screen application? > > I found a vendor called Jagacy (jagacy.com) that provides a Java-based > solution, but it seems to be GUI based... and I'm not that good with > Java anyway. > > Any other thoughts would be appreciated. > > Cheers! > Aaron. > > -- > Aaron Vegh, Principal > Innoveghtive Inc. > P: (647) 477-2690 > C: (905) 924-1220 > www.innoveghtive.com > www.website-in-a-day.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 11:02:42 2008 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 06:02:42 -0500 Subject: Screen scraping a 3270 terminal? In-Reply-To: <20080114035517.696050ed-lQMCrfjKGrJ3Ex1Y5TzZUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20801090950j1b6d1070wef854a0f71a23800@mail.gmail.com> <20080114035517.696050ed@david.chipman> Message-ID: <1200308562.16293.17.camel@aragorn> On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 03:55 -0500, David C. Chipman wrote: > Hi Aaron, > > Have you looked into using 'expect(1)'? That might do > what you want. Also, did you consider trying to use ssh, and sending > it's output to a file? I don't know if these will solve your problem, > and if not I'm sorry. BTW, why dose the terminal being a 3270 matter? > Later, > No, I don't think that the terminal itself matters except that the technology implied inside the computer would matter. (no HTML likely, so no curl solution). Actually, expect sounds good, but a lot of work. Another quick and dirty character-based solution would be to use a terminal command called script(1). script captures every keystroke you did (including the backspace key and all escape characters) and every bit of output that went to your terminal. It saves it in a file. Run a command, and script captures everything. That requires no scripting, just run the command, script runs a subshell, and you treat it like a normal shell (which it actually is). "logout" (or CTRL+D) logs you out of the subshell, closes the file, which you can now edit as a text file (recommended, since all non-ASCII characters need to be edited out of the file -- I find vi to be especially useful for this kind of editing). Read the manpage. Paul King > -David Chipman > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > � -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 12:58:33 2008 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:58:33 -0500 Subject: Printing finally works! In-Reply-To: <1200284118.15620.16.camel@aragorn> References: <1200284118.15620.16.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: <200801140758.34083.dbmacg@look.ca> I have a different printer story. I have a Canon LBP460 laser printer. It is a 'winprinter' and the last drivers Canon produced for it were for Windows95. There are now Linux divers for it, and Linux uses it as full Postscript printer. Networked Windows XP users can now use it as an Apple Laserwriter (postscript) printer. HP 6L printers use the Canon engine, and HP toner cartridges work perfectly. So Canon and Microsoft tried to lock it up and then abandoned it, but Linux and HP allow it to continue. -- Duncan MacGregor --- Toronto --- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 14:22:27 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:22:27 -0500 Subject: Screen scraping a 3270 terminal? In-Reply-To: <20080109184609.GE2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080109184609.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <478b702b.102b400a.28d9.776c@mx.google.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lennart > Sorensen > Sent: Wednesday 09 January 2008 13:46 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Screen scraping a 3270 terminal? > > On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 12:50:44PM -0500, Aaron Vegh wrote: > > I have a client who wants me to scrape information from a number of > > web-located resources (they're all internal to their network). That's > > doable, but among the resources are two 3270 terminal sessions that > > have to be logged into, navigated through and then scraped. > > > > My normal procedure is to use curl to snatch and parse HTML from a > > site, and it will suffice for the rest of the job. But how does one > > programmatically parse through an old green screen application? > > expect works well for interactive text thingies. Could chat not be used for this as well? It's a simplistic approach, but depending on the application, it might just do the trick. I've heard that expect is a powerful tool, but has a steep learning curve. Good luck! -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 14:58:33 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:58:33 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080111231157.22527.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080109214943.10865.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109224638.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080110002535.13868.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080110015152.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4786B0CD.7060800@chrisaitken.net> <32f6a8880801101623y2dd23c44l50a1beb7c8a443db@mail.gmail.com> <20080111141826.GO2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080111231157.22527.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080114145833.GR2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 06:11:57PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install ssh-server > [sudo] password for devon: > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree > Reading state information... Done > Package ssh-server is a virtual package provided by: > openssh-server 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 > lsh-server 2.0.2-1.1 > You should explicitly select one to install. > E: Package ssh-server has no installation candidate > devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install openssh-server 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 If you want to specify a version, put an = between the packagename and version. In your case all you have to do is: apt-get install openssh-server -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 15:02:22 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:02:22 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <20080112020704.GE29416-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <20080110211910.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801101338j6009b112tded149fe3984f544@mail.gmail.com> <1200037237.16048.9.camel@moonglow.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> <20080111145300.GB29416@adb.ca> <20080111155150.GP2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080112020704.GE29416@adb.ca> Message-ID: <20080114150222.GS2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 09:07:04PM -0500, Anthony de Boer wrote: > Interestingly enough, one of the mottos in the Gentoo community is "If > You Want Debian, You Know Where To Find It". > > I was talking to one of the key Debian people awhile ago, and he said > that the percentage of source downloads relative to binary downloads > on the Debian FTP mirrors is rather small. People are happy with it, > but they're not looking under the sheets. Which is a good thing. Most people should just be happy using things. The world is much more efficient when people specialize and do things they are good at. If everyone has to repeat all work, then very little new and productive would ever get done. This is why to me the concept of gentoo is offensive. :) > And you _can_ find Red Hat source RPMSs (SRPMs) too, if you look hard > enough. > > However, I don't _want_ to run a binary distribution like Debian or > Fedora or Microsoft Windows where you get binaries somebody else built. > I want the SOURCE. Don't get between me and the source code. I want > to see source, and I want to see it building. Call me a programmer or > something, but source code is important to me. I am sure I could think of something to call you, but I am not sure what. Insisting on compiling things yourself does not make you a programmer. Paranoid is more likely. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 15:08:05 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:08:05 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <20080114015911.GA20461-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <20080114015911.GA20461@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20080114150805.GT2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 13, 2008 at 08:59:11PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > Generally everything that's available for linux. There are well over > 12,000 apps/libs/etc (not counting different versions). I don't know if > the mailing list would appreciate a 66 kbyte zip file of a listing of my > /etc/portage directory > > Me, me, me. One word of warning; it's like a manual transmission. > You have more control than with an automatic. If you floor the gas > pedal and leave it there, you'll blow up the engine. Similarly, if you > make some stupid choices with Gentoo, it'll blow up on you. Here are my > flags for my machine with an AMD CPU. > > CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -march=athlon -m3dnow -mmmx -msse -msse2 -mfpmath=sse" > CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}" > MAKEOPTS="-j1" That doesn't make sense. No athlon ever had sse2. The athlon 64 does, but it is -march=athlon64 not athlon. > This gets the most out of the machine without going into "Gentoo Ricer > mode". USE flags are a separate consideration, and depend heavily on > what you want to use the machine for. > > Up until this past summer, I used a 1999 Dell with a 450 mhz PIII, and > 128 megs of main ram. I used blackbox WM on it, and it was actually > quite reasonable. Where it did run into problems was... > - stuttering and dropped frames with "internet TV" > - working on 2560x1920 digital photos with GIMP was "leisurely" > Everything else was almost as responsive as the "latest/greatest" > machine. My motto is "I don't run desktops, I run applications". I > tried GNOME and KDE a couple of times, and it was painfull. I've stayed > with Blackbox mostly out of inertia. It does what I need. I also avoid running X on my 486/66 although it serves files and does firewalling just fine. And it just runs plain old Debian. Not sure one could optimize for it any better than it already is. KDE and gnome can make a 2GHz machine feel slow, so yeah better to avoid that unless you have a lot of resources to waste. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 15:09:39 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:09:39 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <4788EC82.1010909-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4788EC82.1010909@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080114150939.GU2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 12, 2008 at 11:36:18AM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > With my (still relatively) new ubuntu instalation I haven't tried to get > my emu 1212 m pci soundcard working. I did this successfully a while > back when I had fedora 7 on the box. I just re-read all the emails from > that and it seems that the only thing I did to make it work was getting > the latest alsa on the machine. Would the following be a good way to start?: > > > sudo apt-get install alsa > sudo apt-get install alsa-firmware > sudo apt-get instal alsa-lib > > Please note that this time I'm asking /before/ I do careless stuff. I > think it's better to thrash-talk than thrash about in my computer... Sounds like a good thing to try. apt-cache search alsa might give some package names worth looking at. I am not sure how up to date the current ubuntu is but I would expect it to be fairly current. And you might have to have multiverse enabled to get al lthe firmware stuff, or whatever it is called. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 15:10:19 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:10:19 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <4788EE41.9090105-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4788EC82.1010909@chrisaitken.net> <4788ED3C.1030007@chrisaitken.net> <4788EE41.9090105@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080114151019.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 12, 2008 at 11:43:45AM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > When I open alsamixer all it shows me is the onboard card (Intel > 82801BA-ICH2). What about 'cat /proc/asound/cards'? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 15:12:55 2008 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:12:55 -0500 Subject: Screen scraping a 3270 terminal? In-Reply-To: <478b702b.102b400a.28d9.776c-ATjtLOhZ0NVl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080109184609.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <478b702b.102b400a.28d9.776c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b20801140712p302f91byb28b783b7b58302e@mail.gmail.com> Thanks to everyone for their thoughts on this. It seems there are many ways to skin this cat, which is great news. I think I'm liking the suite of tools that are part of x3270 (I'm playing with c3270, which is included, right now). My biggest problem, it seems, is gaining access to the terminal in the first place! The version that needs to be scraped is currently accessed after logging into a web application, then engaging a Java-based terminal on a https page. I can snag the server name from the Java application, and with some plugging away with nmap, I discovered what port it's running on. :-) But here's the problem: when I log in using c3270, it's asking me for a username and password. Fair enough, I'll use the one that gets me into the web application. But the password is longer than the field! It looks like this: User id ===> Password ===> New Password ===> By the time I finish typing the password, I look up and I'm in the "New Password" field; the fields are only 8 characters long. It seems there might be authentication server sitting between the web app and the terminal, somehow passing on a modified login to the terminal... is that possible? I don't have to log in when using the Java-based terminal; I'm immediately given a command prompt there. Any suggestions on how to overcome this block? Thanks, Aaron. On Jan 14, 2008 9:22 AM, Kareem Shehata wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lennart > > Sorensen > > Sent: Wednesday 09 January 2008 13:46 > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Screen scraping a 3270 terminal? > > > > On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 12:50:44PM -0500, Aaron Vegh wrote: > > > I have a client who wants me to scrape information from a number of > > > web-located resources (they're all internal to their network). That's > > > doable, but among the resources are two 3270 terminal sessions that > > > have to be logged into, navigated through and then scraped. > > > > > > My normal procedure is to use curl to snatch and parse HTML from a > > > site, and it will suffice for the rest of the job. But how does one > > > programmatically parse through an old green screen application? > > > > expect works well for interactive text thingies. > > Could chat not be used for this as well? It's a simplistic approach, but > depending on the application, it might just do the trick. > > I've heard that expect is a powerful tool, but has a steep learning curve. > > Good luck! > > -kms > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Aaron Vegh, Principal Innoveghtive Inc. P: (647) 477-2690 C: (905) 924-1220 www.innoveghtive.com www.website-in-a-day.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 15:46:10 2008 From: bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:46:10 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080111141826.GO2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080107121759.29214.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080109214943.10865.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109224638.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080110002535.13868.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080110015152.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4786B0CD.7060800@chrisaitken.net> <32f6a8880801101623y2dd23c44l50a1beb7c8a443db@mail.gmail.com> <20080111141826.GO2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <473c25250801140746m6eb929ablc9acec9b8b965821@mail.gmail.com> > No /etc/sysconfig is a redhat'ism. There should bet > /etc/network/interfaces, although quite how networkmanager gets along > with that I have no idea since I have never used the network manager > myself. > -- > Len Sorensen As far as I know, NetworkManager interacts with DBus/HALd. If you use /etc/network/interfaces to configure an interface, NetworkManager doesn't configure it (it might show it in the admin interface, though I think). If you use NetworkManager 100% to set things up, it configures them when it starts up, as far as I know. -- Brandon Sandrowicz -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 16:12:22 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:12:22 +0000 (GMT) Subject: D'oh! Message-ID: <3711926.1200327142809.JavaMail.wibapp@tlm2161.visto-mgmt.com> I havent been able to save my wireless settings in ubuntu it always resets next boot so im not sure it does save settings Email on the go, sent by TELUS -----Original Message----- From: "Brandon Sandrowicz" Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:46:10 -0500 To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Received: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:46:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Re:D'oh! > No /etc/sysconfig is a redhat'ism. There should bet > /etc/network/interfaces, although quite how networkmanager gets along > with that I have no idea since I have never used the network manager > myself. > -- > Len Sorensen As far as I know, NetworkManager interacts with DBus/HALd. If you use /etc/network/interfaces to configure an interface, NetworkManager doesn't configure it (it might show it in the admin interface, though I think). If you use NetworkManager 100% to set things up, it configures them when it starts up, as far as I know. -- Brandon Sandrowicz -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 16:19:01 2008 From: bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:19:01 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <3711926.1200327142809.JavaMail.wibapp-GDpqK9bomednQyB+nhcw5xk+b7S/CFcc@public.gmane.org> References: <3711926.1200327142809.JavaMail.wibapp@tlm2161.visto-mgmt.com> Message-ID: <473c25250801140819r4afacac6ye9dacff666f2d6d0@mail.gmail.com> On 1/14/08, Dave Germiquet wrote: > I havent been able to save my wireless settings in ubuntu it always resets next boot so im not sure it does save settings I don't have any manual configuration, mine is just in roaming mode, so don't have any direct experience with settings being saved, but I believe that /etc/network/interfaces and NetworkManager configuration are mutually exclusive on a per interface (or per device) basis. This is untested though. -- Brandon Sandrowicz -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 17:07:40 2008 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:07:40 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <20080114150222.GS2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <20080110211910.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801101338j6009b112tded149fe3984f544@mail.gmail.com> <1200037237.16048.9.camel@moonglow.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> <20080111145300.GB29416@adb.ca> <20080111155150.GP2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080112020704.GE29416@adb.ca> <20080114150222.GS2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080114170740.GJ29416@adb.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 09:07:04PM -0500, Anthony de Boer wrote: > > ... > > I was talking to one of the key Debian people awhile ago, and he said > > that the percentage of source downloads relative to binary downloads > > on the Debian FTP mirrors is rather small. People are happy with it, > > but they're not looking under the sheets. > > Which is a good thing. Most people should just be happy using things. > The world is much more efficient when people specialize and do things > they are good at. If everyone has to repeat all work, then very little > new and productive would ever get done. > > This is why to me the concept of gentoo is offensive. :) There are a lot of different Linux distros, then there are the BSDs and Solaris, etc, and I'm old enough to remember the legendary UNIX which begat them. The choices we have today are each optimized toward a particular use. If I were you, I'd probably be using Debian too, but for the purpose of being able to "look under the sheets" and see source code and the build process and how the whole system hangs together, and being able to tweak it as I see fit, Gentoo is meeting that need quite well. Note that I'm not insisting on it being the right choice in all circumstances. I've used a bunch of the others, trying out ZFS in the upcoming FreeBSD 7.0 release is looking intriguing, and over the years some things die and others arise (there's an internal tempest threatening Gentoo at the moment, which I hope they resolve; I was using something else before it and may eventually find myself using something else after it). And sometimes you'd want to pick a best-common-denominator OS/distro to use for everything, rather than tracking how things work in a bunch of them. And an employer's distro of choice does mean specializing in that one for them too. > I am sure I could think of something to call you, but I am not sure > what. Insisting on compiling things yourself does not make you a > programmer. Paranoid is more likely. One of the early firewall publications (the FWTK manual, if I recall) had a cartoon of a worried-looking sysadmin with the caption "I'm paranoid. But am I paranoid _enough_?" That's the sort of work I've done over the past number of years, with firewalling and host security and application robustness and storage redundancy/backups. (Is anyone hiring?!?) -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 16:44:16 2008 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:44:16 -0500 Subject: Debian Sid and Grub Message-ID: <200801151144.17088.mervc@eol.ca> I am about to set up a new drive and thought I might use LVM for it. From what I see, ver 0.97 should be able to boot from anything in the first VG. So I no longer need small /boot partitions. Is that right? regards -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Sid Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.7 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 16:51:25 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:51:25 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <20080114170740.GJ29416-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <20080110211910.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801101338j6009b112tded149fe3984f544@mail.gmail.com> <1200037237.16048.9.camel@moonglow.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> <20080111145300.GB29416@adb.ca> <20080111155150.GP2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080112020704.GE29416@adb.ca> <20080114150222.GS2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080114170740.GJ29416@adb.ca> Message-ID: <20080115165125.GW2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 12:07:40PM -0500, Anthony de Boer wrote: > There are a lot of different Linux distros, then there are the BSDs and > Solaris, etc, and I'm old enough to remember the legendary UNIX which > begat them. The choices we have today are each optimized toward a > particular use. If I were you, I'd probably be using Debian too, but for > the purpose of being able to "look under the sheets" and see source code > and the build process and how the whole system hangs together, and being > able to tweak it as I see fit, Gentoo is meeting that need quite well. > Note that I'm not insisting on it being the right choice in all > circumstances. I've used a bunch of the others, trying out ZFS in the > upcoming FreeBSD 7.0 release is looking intriguing, and over the years > some things die and others arise (there's an internal tempest threatening > Gentoo at the moment, which I hope they resolve; I was using something > else before it and may eventually find myself using something else after > it). And sometimes you'd want to pick a best-common-denominator > OS/distro to use for everything, rather than tracking how things work in > a bunch of them. And an employer's distro of choice does mean > specializing in that one for them too. I do look under the hood. I make new packages, I fix packages or update them in some cases. The debian package build system is the best I have ever worked with. After switching to Debian I have also started using non x86 machines and having one distribution that works the same everywhere is rather handy. I have started jobs at a company that was using redhat everywhere. When I left a few years later we had gone debian everywhere. I used to be a redhat user until it got to crappy to tolerate, while at the same time debian was starting to become uncrappy enough to tolerate so I switched. I have also used slackware before redhat, and SLS before that, and solaris and hp-ux at times as well. I hope solaris has managed to get a better package management system since I used it, and that hp-ux has just plain gotten better at everything since I used it. I have installed and used netbsd (openbsd's installer and support turned out to be rather crappy on the hardware I was installing it on) a bit as well. My next job I helped decide what to use and debian made sense so we use it. It is possible to influence decisions, and sometimes what was a good decision at one time is no longer a good decision. Times change. Claiming that something is perfect and being unwilling to look at other solutions is a bad idea. Look at new ideas, but don't assume new is necesarily good and don't assume new is necesarily bad. Both will get you in trouble. My goal with computers is to make them better and more efficient. I believe in scripting things that are likely to be done more than once, and in not having people do duplicate work, which to me is one of the prime purposes of open source software. Don't write code to do the same thing someone else already did unless you can make it much better, in which case you should probably go improve the existing code if it is recuable. Don't do the same work other people have already done, which means don't compile the same package someone else already did with the same result. Yeah gentoo lets you pick the configuration of the package in some cases, but at the same time making the code modular and able to use libraries at runtime would be a better more flexible solution in the long term since that way you compile everything one, and only install and use the modules you need. Works for PHP on debian at least among others. > One of the early firewall publications (the FWTK manual, if I recall) > had a cartoon of a worried-looking sysadmin with the caption "I'm > paranoid. But am I paranoid _enough_?" That's the sort of work I've > done over the past number of years, with firewalling and host security > and application robustness and storage redundancy/backups. (Is anyone > hiring?!?) Unless you actually go read every line of source code to ensure there are no traps hidden in it, then you are no better off than using a prebuilt binary. You have to trust the supplier either way. Believing you are being more careful and more thorough doesn't mean you are. And where do you get the compiler you used to compile everything? You have to have a bootstrap compiler at some point, and people have made hidden tings in compilers that could pass on to the next compiler built, although whether such things have ever left the research lab or gone beynd proof of concept I am not sure. I kind of hope not. Whenever I get a new driver from one of our suppliers to fix some problem, I diff the code against the previous version to see what changed. This is to see that what changed makes sense in terms of what was supposedly fixed, and to check that no other unrelated changes were made that I should worry about. The reason I do that is that I know they have made mistakes in the past. In general I don't do that for everything. I spend my time where I expect it to be worthwhile. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 16:54:22 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:54:22 -0500 Subject: Debian Sid and Grub In-Reply-To: <200801151144.17088.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200801151144.17088.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20080115165422.GX2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 11:44:16AM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > I am about to set up a new drive and thought I might use LVM for it. > > From what I see, ver 0.97 should be able to boot from anything in the first > VG. So I no longer need small /boot partitions. > > Is that right? Ehm I don't think so. I have never seen any mention of LVM support in GRUB 0.97. It's in legacy maintainance mode only. All new stuff goes in GRUB2 only. It supports software raid1 for sure. I found something saying you need grub 1.95 or higher to have boot on LVM. I would recommend a small (200MB maybe) /boot at the start of the disk, and then you can put root and everything else in LVM. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 17:43:54 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:43:54 +0000 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <20080114170740.GJ29416-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <20080110211910.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801101338j6009b112tded149fe3984f544@mail.gmail.com> <1200037237.16048.9.camel@moonglow.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> <20080111145300.GB29416@adb.ca> <20080111155150.GP2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080112020704.GE29416@adb.ca> <20080114150222.GS2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080114170740.GJ29416@adb.ca> Message-ID: On Jan 14, 2008 5:07 PM, Anthony de Boer wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 09:07:04PM -0500, Anthony de Boer wrote: > > I am sure I could think of something to call you, but I am not sure > > what. Insisting on compiling things yourself does not make you a > > programmer. Paranoid is more likely. > > One of the early firewall publications (the FWTK manual, if I recall) > had a cartoon of a worried-looking sysadmin with the caption "I'm > paranoid. But am I paranoid _enough_?" That's the sort of work I've > done over the past number of years, with firewalling and host security > and application robustness and storage redundancy/backups. (Is anyone > hiring?!?) The fact that you may watch a wave of lines like the following go across your screen is *NOT* paranoid action that helps security. gcc -O7 ${MOREFLAGDETERIORATA} -c some_file.c You may *imagine* that you are avoiding some security problems, but in reality, you're not, not unless you are scrutinizing every bit of code that gets compiled. It still is not enough even if you *are* scrutinizing the code. Ken Thompson documented this nicely in his famous paper: http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html Quoting from it: "No amount of source-level verification or scrutiny will protect you from using untrusted code." Unless you're actually auditing every bit of the code and patches that Gentoo is claiming to be compiling for you, then you are NOT acting on that paranoia in a fashion that actually provides *any* protection at all. And Thompson nicely documented that EVEN IF YOU ARE SCRUTINIZING THAT CODE, you STILL have to trust the absence of nefarious purpose on the part of the authors. The guys wearing tinfoil hats because they are paranoid about the government beaming things into their heads are doing something ineffectual in not just one, but three ways: 1. Firstly, they're idiots, because they are being paranoid about something that's not happening. ;-) 2. Secondly, they are assuming that tinfoil hats are actually providing any protection in the first place. It is by no means obvious that the hats would be effectual in the way they are supposed to be. (For instance, if I put probes in peoples' heads, I'd make sure I ran an antenna down their spine...) 3. Even assuming the hats worked, to some degree, at some point, they have to take the hats off to sleep or to shower, at which point they become vulnerable to the "mind control beams." Oops. If you don't trust the code that is being contributed to you, no amount of "compiling from source" can truly help. Being more paranoid doesn't protect you from anything; it merely makes it more likely that you'll look at the risks with diminished rationality, which is not likely to improve your security situation. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alorane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 17:54:24 2008 From: alorane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (alorane) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 12:54:24 -0500 Subject: Domain registration and hosting Message-ID: <6a394d3b0801150954lf2e082fq60da1fdc21e8b193@mail.gmail.com> Hi The Non-Profit Group I am belonging to wants to build a website. Any suggestions for cheap and reliable Domain registration and hosting? I looked at VPSLink as they support Ubuntu and charge only $6.99 for hosting but they don't do the Domain registration. Thanks Alorane The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmacaranas-/DrkG639A0k at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 18:11:00 2008 From: jmacaranas-/DrkG639A0k at public.gmane.org (jmacaranas-/DrkG639A0k at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:11:00 -0500 Subject: [SPAM] -Domain registration and hosting - Email found in subject In-Reply-To: <6a394d3b0801150954lf2e082fq60da1fdc21e8b193-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <6a394d3b0801150954lf2e082fq60da1fdc21e8b193@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D32E9B6A504554489FFFD81E7FF281305788965@MX01.fxdd.com> Why not register the domain yourself. Godaddy.com has some cheap domains.. and just use vpslink for the hosting of your site.. All you need to do is configure godaddy to point your WWW to vpslink's public IP. From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of alorane Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 12:54 PM To: List, TLUG Subject: [SPAM] - [TLUG]: Domain registration and hosting - Email found in subject Hi The Non-Profit Group I am belonging to wants to build a website. Any suggestions for cheap and reliable Domain registration and hosting? I looked at VPSLink as they support Ubuntu and charge only $6.99 for hosting but they don't do the Domain registration. Thanks Alorane The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. 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Any reference to the terms of executed transactions should be treated as preliminary only and subject to our formal confirmation. FXDirectDealer, LLC is not responsible for any recommendation, solicitation, offer or agreement or any information about any transaction, customer account or account activity contained in this communication. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 18:13:42 2008 From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 12:13:42 -0600 (CST) Subject: [SPAM] -Domain registration and hosting - Email found in subject In-Reply-To: <4D32E9B6A504554489FFFD81E7FF281305788965-wQuPDRWRT+X2eFz/2MeuCQ@public.gmane.org> References: <6a394d3b0801150954lf2e082fq60da1fdc21e8b193@mail.gmail.com> <4D32E9B6A504554489FFFD81E7FF281305788965@MX01.fxdd.com> Message-ID: these guys aren't bad: http://www.stormweb.ca/ if you want a combined option... On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, jmacaranas-/DrkG639A0k at public.gmane.org wrote: > Why not register the domain yourself. Godaddy.com has some cheap > domains.. and just use vpslink for the hosting of your site.. > > > > All you need to do is configure godaddy to point your WWW to vpslink's > public IP. > > > > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of alorane > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 12:54 PM > To: List, TLUG > Subject: [SPAM] - [TLUG]: Domain registration and hosting - Email found > in subject > > > > Hi > > > > The Non-Profit Group I am belonging to wants to build a website. Any > suggestions for cheap and reliable Domain registration and hosting? > > I looked at VPSLink as they support Ubuntu and charge only $6.99 for > hosting but they don't do the Domain registration. > > > > Thanks > > > > Alorane > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is > addressed. It may contain sensitive and private proprietary or legally > privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or > lost by any mistransmission. If you are not the intended recipient, > please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, > destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, > directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any > part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. > FXDirectDealer, LLC reserves the right to monitor all e-mail > communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this > message are those of the individual sender, except where the > message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them. > > Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this message > is indicative only, is subject to change and does not constitute an > offer to deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of > executed transactions should be treated as preliminary only and subject > to our formal confirmation. FXDirectDealer, LLC is not responsible for any > recommendation, solicitation, offer or agreement or any information > about any transaction, customer account or account activity contained in > this communication. > > -- Scott C. Ripley phone: (416)738-6357 www: http://www.scottripley.com email: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Secure Your E-Mail! http://www.mysecuremail.com/javascrypt/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 18:30:32 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:30:32 +0000 Subject: [SPAM] -Domain registration and hosting - Email found in subject In-Reply-To: <4D32E9B6A504554489FFFD81E7FF281305788965-wQuPDRWRT+X2eFz/2MeuCQ@public.gmane.org> References: <6a394d3b0801150954lf2e082fq60da1fdc21e8b193@mail.gmail.com> <4D32E9B6A504554489FFFD81E7FF281305788965@MX01.fxdd.com> Message-ID: On Jan 15, 2008 6:11 PM, wrote: > Why not register the domain yourself. Godaddy.com has some cheap domains.. > and just use vpslink for the hosting of your site.. > > All you need to do is configure godaddy to point your WWW to vpslink's > public IP. I would "second" this, for a further reason... If your Hosting Provider does the domain registration for you, then *THEY* are the ones that hold the registration. If you ever have need to change providers, then they may be in a position to hold the domain name "hostage," and if they were the ones who paid for it, you may have to hire lawyers and such to fight for the name. You may be in the right, but it may co$t thou$and$ to e$tabli$h that. If, on the other hand, you kept that separate from hosting services in the first place, the hosting provider has no way of causing any such trouble. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 19:54:41 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:54:41 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Discounted Registration Expires Soon: Open Source Business Conference (OSBC)] Message-ID: <478D0F81.5060109@dinamis.com> One has to wonder what in the world Brad Smith, SVP, General Counsel & Corporate Secretary, Microsoft Corporation will be talking about at this conference. I presume he will be there to spread FUD about the "legal risks" of using open source software. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Discounted Registration Expires Soon: Open Source Business Conference (OSBC) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:07:19 -0500 From: OSBC To: clifford_ilkay at dinamis.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ You have been selected to receive this e-mail because you indicated you wanted to receive information and special offers from other companies when you provided your email address to: Open Power Village ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Register You are invited to attend InfoWorld's OSBC, this March 25-26, 2008 at The Palace Hotel in San Francisco, CA. Register by January 28, 2008 for additional early registration discounts. 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Over the course of two days, the agenda will deliver content-rich sessions from well-known thought leaders on how open source technology is being used today and will explore the business implications of this technology. 2008 Speaker Lineup includes: ? *Dan Agronow*, CTO, The Weather Channel Interactive ? *Peter Fenton*, Managing Director, Benchmark Capital ? *Jacob Harris*, Senior Software Engineer, The New York Times ? *Matthew Mengerink*, VP, Core Technologies, PayPal ? *Marten Mickos*, CEO, MySQL ? *Steve Pearson*, VP, Advanced Technology, CBS Interactive ? *Brad Smith*, SVP, General Counsel & Corporate Secretary, Microsoft Corporation ? *Jon Williams*, CTO, Kaplan Test Prep & Admissions *Review the complete program agenda and speaker list at OSBC.com .* This Year's Featured Tracks and Topics Include: ? *Putting Open Source to Work for the CIO/CTO* ? 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Hear how others are leveraging open source in their enterprises. Learn how to manage the legal and business opportunities and risks associated with open source. Preview the *list of participating sponsors * at OSBC 2008. Recent reports from Gartner (2006), CIO Insight (2006) and Forrester (2007) highlight: /100% of the Global 2000 are using Linux; By 2008, 95% will have formal open source acquisition & management strategies; 81% have deployed or considered open source applications, and 72% plan to expand its use. / *Join the best and brightest from the open-source ecosystem for two days filled with learning and networking opportunities this March 25-26 in San Francisco.* If you no longer wish to receive emails about InfoWorld's Events, please update your preferences at: http://optout.newsletters.infoworld.com/infoemailchg.aspx?from=/infoworldeventvirt.aspx InfoWorld Media Group, 501 Second St, San Francisco, CA, 94107-1496 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 19:56:09 2008 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:56:09 -0500 Subject: OT: WPA2 PSK reasonable Key Length Message-ID: <478D0FD9.2090802@utoronto.ca> When configuring a WPA2 wireless network at home what would be a reasonable key length in ASCII characters? I'm using AES encryption. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 20:02:17 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:02:17 -0500 Subject: OT: WPA2 PSK reasonable Key Length In-Reply-To: <478D0FD9.2090802-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <478D0FD9.2090802@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20080115200217.GY2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 02:56:09PM -0500, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > When configuring a WPA2 wireless network at home what would be a > reasonable key length in ASCII characters? I'm using AES encryption. No idea. Personally I am starting to wonder why I bother having encryption at all. From what I read both WPA and WEP are so far broken (WPA enterprise is fine but I don't run a radius server). Makes you wonder if WPA2 is really any better. Maybe I should just stick to ssh connections only on the wireless network. For WPA I tend to use 40+ characters. I don't think I have WPA2 support on anything I own yet, although I suspect my wife's tablet supports it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 20:05:31 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:05:31 -0500 Subject: OT: WPA2 PSK reasonable Key Length In-Reply-To: <478D0FD9.2090802-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <478D0FD9.2090802@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <478D120B.70306@rogers.com> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > When configuring a WPA2 wireless network at home what would be a > reasonable key length in ASCII characters? I'm using AES encryption. > Define "reasonable". -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 20:09:21 2008 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:09:21 -0500 Subject: Debian Sid and Grub In-Reply-To: <20080115165422.GX2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200801151144.17088.mervc@eol.ca> <20080115165422.GX2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200801151509.21470.mervc@eol.ca> On Tuesday 15 January 2008 11:54, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 11:44:16AM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > > I am about to set up a new drive and thought I might use LVM for it. > > > > From what I see, ver 0.97 should be able to boot from anything in the > > first VG. So I no longer need small /boot partitions. > > > > Is that right? > > Ehm I don't think so. I have never seen any mention of LVM support in > GRUB 0.97. It's in legacy maintainance mode only. All new stuff goes > in GRUB2 only. > I installed the grub-doc pkg for ver .97 this AM and perhaps you could check it and see if you interpret it the way I did. Maybe I'll do a temp LVM setup using the whole disk and see if it seems to work. I'd ruther trust you tho, ;-) Thanks -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Sid Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.7 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 20:37:10 2008 From: asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Asaf Maruf) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:37:10 -0500 Subject: OT: WPA2 PSK reasonable Key Length In-Reply-To: <478D0FD9.2090802-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <478D0FD9.2090802@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <49e826e90801151237o6815df95r1a199cfd569756bd@mail.gmail.com> Recommend minimum characters is 20 and recommended 33. Someone very motivated can hack this using a number of tools available online. For home use this should provide adequate security. Asaf On Jan 15, 2008 2:56 PM, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > When configuring a WPA2 wireless network at home what would be a > reasonable key length in ASCII characters? I'm using AES encryption. > > Ivan. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- "I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." - Richard P. Feynman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 20:47:55 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:47:55 +0000 Subject: OT: WPA2 PSK reasonable Key Length In-Reply-To: <478D0FD9.2090802-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <478D0FD9.2090802@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Jan 15, 2008 7:56 PM, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > When configuring a WPA2 wireless network at home what would be a > reasonable key length in ASCII characters? I'm using AES encryption. An argument may be made for "none at all." http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/my_open_wireles.html Thinking that you will magically get impenetrable security via this particular security mechanism seems flawed, particularly as there have been many, many poorly implemented versions. If applications that need to be secure implement encryption on THEIR borders, that tends to provide better security. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 21:28:23 2008 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:28:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Phisher of the Week Message-ID: <1793.99.232.68.237.1200432503.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> I Dream of you http://89.76.176.26/ ============================================= Is this what romance has come to? People pining for others..in octets? People furtively handing off at parties a scrap of paper with their..internet address in octal? What's next, romantic poetry in an ascii-coded memory dump? Sigh. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 21:27:47 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:27:47 -0500 Subject: OT: WPA2 PSK reasonable Key Length In-Reply-To: References: <478D0FD9.2090802@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <200801151627.50860.jamon.camisso@utoronto.ca> On January 15, 2008 03:47:55 pm Christopher Browne wrote: > On Jan 15, 2008 7:56 PM, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > > When configuring a WPA2 wireless network at home what would be a > > reasonable key length in ASCII characters? I'm using AES > > encryption. > > An argument may be made for "none at all." > > http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/my_open_wireles.html > > Thinking that you will magically get impenetrable security via this > particular security mechanism seems flawed, particularly as there > have been many, many poorly implemented versions. I run open wireless at home for those reasons Schneier notes. With dd-wrt wireless and wired connections are easily isolated from each other as well. If you really want to run WPA2, choose something strong, 20+ characters that has a mix of alpha-numerics and some characters thrown in as well. WPA2 is easier to crack than WEP if you have a good dictionary and/or a bad passphrase. Jamon -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 21:37:57 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:37:57 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <20080114151019.GV2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4788EC82.1010909@chrisaitken.net> <4788ED3C.1030007@chrisaitken.net> <4788EE41.9090105@chrisaitken.net> <20080114151019.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <478D27B5.9060204@chrisaitken.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Jan 12, 2008 at 11:43:45AM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > >> When I open alsamixer all it shows me is the onboard card (Intel >> 82801BA-ICH2). >> > > What about 'cat /proc/asound/cards'? > chris at cpc:~$ cat /proc/asound/cards 0 [I82801BAICH2 ]: ICH - Intel 82801BA-ICH2 Intel 82801BA-ICH2 with AD1885 at irq 19 Ubuntu does not see the card. Chris > -- > Len Sorensen > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 21:38:44 2008 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:38:44 -0500 Subject: Debian Sid and Grub In-Reply-To: <20080115165422.GX2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200801151144.17088.mervc@eol.ca> <20080115165422.GX2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200801151638.45350.mervc@eol.ca> On Tuesday 15 January 2008 11:54, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 11:44:16AM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > > I am about to set up a new drive and thought I might use LVM for it. > > > > From what I see, ver 0.97 should be able to boot from anything in the > > first VG. So I no longer need small /boot partitions. > > > > Is that right? > > Ehm I don't think so. I have never seen any mention of LVM support in > GRUB 0.97. It's in legacy maintainance mode only. All new stuff goes > in GRUB2 only. > OOps - short memory these days In my first reply, I said grub-doc was the place, no it was the grub wiki grub.enbug.org/LVMandRAID Sorry Lennart and anyone else... -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Sid Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.7 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 21:53:41 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:53:41 -0500 Subject: OT: WPA2 PSK reasonable Key Length In-Reply-To: References: <478D0FD9.2090802@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <478D2B65.8000907@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Jan 15, 2008 7:56 PM, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > >> When configuring a WPA2 wireless network at home what would be a >> reasonable key length in ASCII characters? I'm using AES encryption. >> > > An argument may be made for "none at all." > > http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/my_open_wireles.html > > Thinking that you will magically get impenetrable security via this > particular security mechanism seems flawed, particularly as there have > been many, many poorly implemented versions. > > If applications that need to be secure implement encryption on THEIR > borders, that tends to provide better security. > On my home network, I've got my WiFi outside of my firewall and the only way in is via ssh or OpenVPN. I also run WEP on it, to keep out casual intruders. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 22:01:22 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:01:22 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <20080114150939.GU2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4788EC82.1010909@chrisaitken.net> <20080114150939.GU2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <478D2D32.5000700@chrisaitken.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Jan 12, 2008 at 11:36:18AM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > >> With my (still relatively) new ubuntu instalation I haven't tried to get >> my emu 1212 m pci soundcard working. I did this successfully a while >> back when I had fedora 7 on the box. I just re-read all the emails from >> that and it seems that the only thing I did to make it work was getting >> the latest alsa on the machine. Would the following be a good way to start?: >> >> >> sudo apt-get install alsa >> sudo apt-get install alsa-firmware >> sudo apt-get install alsa-lib >> None of these would install... chris at cpc:~$ sudo apt-get install alsa-firmware Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done E: Couldn't find package alsa-firmware chris at cpc:~$ sudo apt-get install alsa-lib Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done E: Couldn't find package alsa-lib >> Please note that this time I'm asking /before/ I do careless stuff. I >> think it's better to thrash-talk than thrash about in my computer... >> > > Sounds like a good thing to try. apt-cache search alsa might give some > package names worth looking at. > Hmmm - they /all/ look so nice... chris at cpc:~$ apt-cache search alsa alsa-base - ALSA driver configuration files linux-sound-base - base package for ALSA and OSS sound systems libasound2 - ALSA library libasound2-plugins - ALSA library additional plugins alsa-utils - ALSA utilities libesd-alsa0 - Enlightened Sound Daemon (ALSA) - Shared libraries gstreamer0.10-alsa - GStreamer plugin for ALSA libao2 - Cross Platform Audio Output Library libsdl1.2debian-alsa - Simple DirectMedia Layer (with X11 and ALSA options) pulseaudio - PulseAudio sound server sl-modem-daemon - SmartLink software modem daemon lib64asound2 - ALSA library (64bit) lib64asound2-dev - ALSA library development files (64 bit) libasound2-dev - ALSA library development files libasound2-doc - ALSA library developer documentation libmikmod2 - A portable sound library libmikmod2-dev - A portable sound library - development files libsdl1.2debian-all - Simple DirectMedia Layer (with all available options) xfce4-mixer-alsa - Xfce4 Mixer ALSA backend 2vcard - A little perl script to convert an addressbook to VCARD file format aconnectgui - graphical ALSA sequencer connection manager alsa-oss - ALSA wrapper for OSS applications alsa-source - ALSA driver sources alsa-tools - Console based ALSA utilities for specific hardware alsa-tools-gui - GUI based ALSA utilities for specific hardware alsamixergui - graphical soundcard mixer for ALSA soundcard driver alsaplayer-alsa - PCM player designed for ALSA (ALSA output module) alsaplayer-common - PCM player designed for ALSA (common files) alsaplayer-daemon - PCM player designed for ALSA (non-interactive version) alsaplayer-esd - PCM player designed for ALSA (EsounD output module) alsaplayer-gtk - PCM player designed for ALSA (GTK version) alsaplayer-jack - PCM player designed for ALSA (JACK output module) alsaplayer-nas - PCM player designed for ALSA (NAS output module) alsaplayer-oss - PCM player designed for ALSA (OSS output module) alsaplayer-text - PCM player designed for ALSA (text version) alsaplayer-xosd - PCM player designed for ALSA (osd version) ams - Realtime modular synthesizer for ALSA amsynth - two oscillator software synthesizer aqualung - Gapless Gtk-based audio player ardour - digital audio workstation (graphical gtk2 interface) asoundconf-gtk - Applet to select the default ALSA sound card asterisk - Open Source Private Branch Exchange (PBX) aumix - Simple text-based mixer control program aumix-gtk - Simple mixer control program with GUI and text interfaces awesfx - utility programs for AWE32/64 and Emu10k1 driver balsa - An e-mail client for GNOME bluetooth-alsa - Bluetooth audio for Linux bse-alsa - ALSA plugin for BEAST cam - Cpu's Audio Mixer for Linux dssi-host-jack - An example DSSI host ecawave - graphical audio file editor fische - Stand-alone sound visualisation for Linux fmit - Free Music Instrument Tuner gamix - Graphical sound mixer for ALSA gnome-alsamixer - ALSA sound mixer for GNOME gom - Command line and interactive ncurses-based OSS audio mixer hydrogen - Simple drum machine/step sequencer ihu - Qt VoIP softphone with an own, encrypted protocol jack-rack - LADSPA effects "rack" for JACK kaconnect - Connection utility for the ALSA sequencer system kdetv - TV viewer for KDE kmidimon - MIDI monitor using ALSA sequencer and KDE user interface ladcca-bin - LADCCA example clients ladcca-dev - Development files for LADCCA ladcca2 - LADCCA shared library files ladccad - LADCCA server lash-bin - Linux Audio Session Handler (LASH) example clients lash-doc - Linux Audio Session Handler (LASH) documentation lashd - Linux Audio Session Handler (LASH) server ld10k1 - ALSA emu10k1/2 patch loader libalsa-ocaml - OCaml bindings for the ALSA library libalsa-ocaml-dev - OCaml bindings for the ALSA library libalsaplayer-dev - PCM player designed for ALSA (interface library, development files) libalsaplayer0 - PCM player designed for ALSA (interface library) libao-ruby - cross-platform audio output library bindings for Ruby libao-ruby1.8 - cross-platform audio output library bindings for Ruby 1.8 libclalsadrv-dev - Development file for libclalsadrv libclalsadrv1 - ALSA driver C++ access library liblash-dev - Linux Audio Session Handler (LASH) development files liblash2 - Linux Audio Session Handler (LASH) shared library files liblo10k1-0 - ALSA emu10k1/2 patch-loader library liblo10k1-dev - ALSA emu10k1/2 patch-loader library development files liby-dev - Y Sound Server Library Header Files liby2-14 - Y Sound Server Library mcp-plugins - LADSPA plugins designed for Alsa Modular Synth mhwaveedit - Simple and fast GTK2 sound editor moc - ncurses based console audio player mpg123-alsa - MPEG layer 1/2/3 audio player with ALSA support muse - Qt-based midi/audio sequencer oss-compat - OSS compatibility package patchage - modular patch bay for Jack audio and Alsa Midi pmidi - A command line midi player for ALSA psemu-sound-alsa - ALSA sound plugin for PSX emulators python-alsaaudio - Alsa bindings for Python qamix - Configurable mixer for ALSA qarecord - A simple multithreaded stereo recording tool qlo10k1 - ALSA ld10k1 utility qmidiarp - MIDI arpeggiator for ALSA qmidiroute - MIDI router and filter utility qtractor - MIDI/Audio multi-track sequencer application scolily - Utility to create music scores from microphone setmixer - A commandline mixer snd-gtk - Sound file editor (GTK+ user interface) specimen - a MIDI controllable audio sampler for GNU/Linux systems stymulator - Curses based player and converter for the YM chiptune format tapiir - A tool for real time audio delay and feedback effects timidity - Software sound renderer (MIDI sequencer, MOD player) vdr-plugin-bitstreamout - Plugin for VDR to play AC3 sound over a sound card vkeybd - Virtual MIDI Keyboard vlc-plugin-alsa - dummy transitional package xmms2-plugin-alsa - XMMS2 - ALSA output xmp-alsa - ALSA driver for XMP yate-alsa - ALSA module for yate yiff-server - Y Sound Server zinf-plugin-alsa - ALSA plugin for ZINF alsa-firmware-loaders - ALSA software loaders for specific hardware libbio2jack0 - oss/alsa to jack porting lib - runtime files libbio2jack0-dev - oss/alsa to jack porting lib - development files audacious-plugins - Base plugins for audacious libpt-plugins-alsa - Portable Windows Library Audio Plugin for the ALSA Interface chris at cpc:~$ I tried disabling the onboard card in the BIOS - didn't affect much - alsamixer stills sees the Intel card. I did notice a Creative Labs card in the PCI Devices section od f the BIOS though. > I am not sure how up to date the current ubuntu is but I would expect it > to be fairly current. And you might have to have multiverse enabled to > get all the firmware stuff, or whatever it is called. > How do I do that? Chris > -- > Len Sorensen > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 02:03:37 2008 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 21:03:37 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <20080115165125.GW2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <20080110211910.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801101338j6009b112tded149fe3984f544@mail.gmail.com> <1200037237.16048.9.camel@moonglow.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> <20080111145300.GB29416@adb.ca> <20080111155150.GP2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080112020704.GE29416@adb.ca> <20080114150222.GS2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080114170740.GJ29416@adb.ca> <20080115165125.GW2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Lennart Sorensen wrote: [ ... ] > And where do you get the compiler you used to compile everything? You > have to have a bootstrap compiler at some point, and people have made > hidden tings in compilers that could pass on to the next compiler built, > although whether such things have ever left the research lab or gone > beynd proof of concept I am not sure. I kind of hope not. See IIRC Thompson confirmed that he had released his Trojan, to a limited audience. I can't find the confirming post that I think I remember seeing. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 02:53:29 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 21:53:29 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880801101338j6009b112tded149fe3984f544@mail.gmail.com> <1200037237.16048.9.camel@moonglow.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> <20080111145300.GB29416@adb.ca> <20080111155150.GP2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080112020704.GE29416@adb.ca> <20080114150222.GS2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080114170740.GJ29416@adb.ca> <20080115165125.GW2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880801151853j73f1ba71q4f4b4098fcfd689@mail.gmail.com> I read it, but how could something like this happen nowadays? Don't a hundred eyes see the same code all the time because of "Open Source" or is the safety of open source an illusion? Because for example a linux made of millions and millions of lines of code so there could be hacks in any of them On Jan 15, 2008 9:03 PM, Mel Wilson wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > [ ... ] > > And where do you get the compiler you used to compile everything? You > > have to have a bootstrap compiler at some point, and people have made > > hidden tings in compilers that could pass on to the next compiler built, > > although whether such things have ever left the research lab or gone > > beynd proof of concept I am not sure. I kind of hope not. > > See > > IIRC Thompson confirmed that he had released his Trojan, to a limited > audience. I can't find the confirming post that I think I remember > seeing. > > Mel. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 03:23:57 2008 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:23:57 -0500 Subject: OT: WPA2 PSK reasonable Key Length In-Reply-To: <200801151627.50860.jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <478D0FD9.2090802@utoronto.ca> <200801151627.50860.jamon.camisso@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <478D78CD.4020200@utoronto.ca> Jamon Camisso wrote: > If you really want to run WPA2, choose something strong, 20+ characters > that has a mix of alpha-numerics and some characters thrown in as well. > WPA2 is easier to crack than WEP if you have a good dictionary and/or a > bad passphrase. I'm using Kurt's wpa random key generator. http://www.kurtm.net/wpa-pskgen/ Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 03:51:55 2008 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:51:55 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801151853j73f1ba71q4f4b4098fcfd689-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880801101338j6009b112tded149fe3984f544@mail.gmail.com> <1200037237.16048.9.camel@moonglow.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> <20080111145300.GB29416@adb.ca> <20080111155150.GP2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080112020704.GE29416@adb.ca> <20080114150222.GS2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080114170740.GJ29416@adb.ca> <20080115165125.GW2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801151853j73f1ba71q4f4b4098fcfd689@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dave Germiquet wrote: > I read it, but how could something like this happen nowadays? > > Don't a hundred eyes see the same code all the time because of "Open > Source" or is the safety of open source an illusion? I seriously don't know. I just finished a Kubuntu re-install and upgrade; I've just filled a system, and I don't even know clearly where the stuff came from, let alone what the stuff is. Even when the upgrade crashed half-way through, and adept wouldn't even start again until I'd got dpkg to pick up the pieces -- I'm worried, but not so worried that I won't use the system tomorrow, when I have other things I have to do. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 04:21:05 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:21:05 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801151853j73f1ba71q4f4b4098fcfd689-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <1200037237.16048.9.camel@moonglow.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> <20080111145300.GB29416@adb.ca> <20080111155150.GP2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080112020704.GE29416@adb.ca> <20080114150222.GS2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080114170740.GJ29416@adb.ca> <20080115165125.GW2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801151853j73f1ba71q4f4b4098fcfd689@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jan 15, 2008 9:53 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > I read it, but how could something like this happen nowadays? > > Don't a hundred eyes see the same code all the time because of "Open > Source" or is the safety of open source an illusion? > > Because for example a linux made of millions and millions of lines of > code so there could be hacks in any of them The example that Thompson gives represents an attack that reading source code doesn't mitigate. For most code, a hundred eyes *don't* see the code, because there aren't frequently hundreds of times as many people interested in reading code than there are interested in writing code. And both are usually a minority. Scrutinizing the source code is not of zero value, and the *potential* for scrutiny will discourage sorts of attacks that would be found by such examination. But it is not a panacea, solving all problems. I have considerable respect for those that read the sources, for those that read the patch queues. That's of considerable value in protecting projects from malicious intent. The illusion that watching streams of "gcc -c foo.c -O4" wash across the screen is valuable in any security sense seems pretty ridiculous, in comparison. > > See A conclusion that Thompson drew was that there were kinds of attacks that would not be mitigated by examining the sources. Whether the source code is open or not is completely immaterial to the matter. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 07:13:19 2008 From: tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slackrat) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:13:19 +0100 Subject: iptables Message-ID: <87d4s2jl9s.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Can anyone explain why this iptables -A INPUT -i $WAN_IFACE -m iprange --src-range 74.6.0.0-74.6.255.255 -j LOG --log-prefix "SURVEY: " gives me this iptables: Unknown error 4294967295 I am using a guide at http://iptables-tutorial.frozentux.net/iptables-tutorial.html#IPRANGEMATCH (table 10-18) -- SlackRat - 4Q to Reply -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 07:25:51 2008 From: tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slackrat) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:25:51 +0100 Subject: Confirmation for subscribe tlug In-Reply-To: <20080116072356.B8C172F5E4-JcsaL2wEbRNAfugRpC6u6w@public.gmane.org> (Majordomo-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org's message of "Wed\, 16 Jan 2008 02\:23\:56 -0500 \(EST\)") References: <20080116072356.B8C172F5E4@rock.ss.org> Message-ID: <874pdejkow.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> auth db244ba2 subscribe tlug tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org -- SlackRat - 4Q to Reply -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 07:35:26 2008 From: tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slackrat) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:35:26 +0100 Subject: iptables Message-ID: <87sl0yi5oh.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Can anyone explain why this iptables -A INPUT -i $WAN_IFACE -m iprange --src-range 74.6.0.0-74.6.255.255 -j LOG --log-prefix "SURVEY: " gives me this iptables: Unknown error 4294967295 I am using a guide at http://iptables-tutorial.frozentux.net/iptables-tutorial.html#IPRANGEMATCH (table 10-18) kernel is 24.4.33.3 -- SlackRat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 12:01:49 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:01:49 -0500 Subject: OT: WPA2 PSK reasonable Key Length In-Reply-To: <478D78CD.4020200-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <478D0FD9.2090802@utoronto.ca> <200801151627.50860.jamon.camisso@utoronto.ca> <478D78CD.4020200@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <478DF22D.207@rogers.com> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: >> If you really want to run WPA2, choose something strong, 20+ >> characters that has a mix of alpha-numerics and some characters >> thrown in as well. WPA2 is easier to crack than WEP if you have a >> good dictionary and/or a bad passphrase. > > I'm using Kurt's wpa random key generator. > > http://www.kurtm.net/wpa-pskgen/ > To generate a hex WEP key, I use ps aux|md5sum. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 13:02:10 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:02:10 -0500 Subject: iptables In-Reply-To: <87sl0yi5oh.fsf-4/PLUo9XfK9lY98wAZ3ymN+n+qDOcVZb@public.gmane.org> References: <87sl0yi5oh.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Message-ID: 4294967295 is 2^32 -1 . One may guess that once something goes wrong, the error number is overwritten by that number. A something similar is probably happening there: http://lists.netfilter.org/pipermail/netfilter-buglog/2006-April/000933.html zb. On Jan 16, 2008 2:35 AM, Slackrat wrote: > Can anyone explain why this > iptables -A INPUT -i $WAN_IFACE -m iprange --src-range > 74.6.0.0-74.6.255.255 -j LOG --log-prefix "SURVEY: " > > gives me this > iptables: Unknown error 4294967295 > > I am using a guide at > http://iptables-tutorial.frozentux.net/iptables-tutorial.html#IPRANGEMATCH > (table 10-18) > > kernel is 24.4.33.3 > -- > SlackRat > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 14:24:58 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:24:58 -0500 Subject: Domain registration and hosting In-Reply-To: <6a394d3b0801150954lf2e082fq60da1fdc21e8b193-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <6a394d3b0801150954lf2e082fq60da1fdc21e8b193@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280801160624x308f0240ufe5f026e1a6b4e6c@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 15, 2008 12:54 PM, alorane wrote: > The Non-Profit Group I am belonging to wants to build a website. Any > suggestions for cheap and reliable Domain registration and hosting? > I looked at VPSLink as they support Ubuntu and charge only $6.99 for hosting > but they don't do the Domain registration. It's generally considered better to do your own domain registration separate from acquiring hosting. It's true that it's not quite as easy, but it isn't rocket science either - it just requires a bit of patience. Why should you buy them separately? Because if you buy together and are unhappy with your hosting, moving to another hosting provider can be very difficult because your old hosting service can refuse/"forget" to change anything about the registration - they own it and control it. If you own the registration separately (which I think is particularly important for businesses and non-profits, more so than individuals) you just log in to the registrar and change the DNS for your domain to your new host and your old host has no say in it at all. Hosting providers come and go. I've been fortunate, the one I started with five years ago is still good. But I own the domains myself, and it's reassuring to know I have that control. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 14:54:42 2008 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:54:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: iptables In-Reply-To: <87d4s2jl9s.fsf-4/PLUo9XfK9lY98wAZ3ymN+n+qDOcVZb@public.gmane.org> References: <87d4s2jl9s.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Message-ID: <305484.98549.qm@web61315.mail.yahoo.com> --- Slackrat wrote: > Can anyone explain why this > iptables -A INPUT -i $WAN_IFACE -m iprange --src-range > 74.6.0.0-74.6.255.255 -j LOG --log-prefix "SURVEY: " > > gives me this > iptables: Unknown error 4294967295 > > I am using a guide at > http://iptables-tutorial.frozentux.net/iptables-tutorial.html#IPRANGEMATCH > (table 10-18) > > -- Hi, The command looks okay. I run your command on my Ubuntu 7.04 machine changing $WAN_IFACE with eth0 and iptables didn't complain at all. So, either $WAN_IFACE is not set to a valid interface on your machine or the iprange module is not available. Hope that helps Equbay > SlackRat - 4Q to Reply > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmacaranas-/DrkG639A0k at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 15:05:04 2008 From: jmacaranas-/DrkG639A0k at public.gmane.org (jmacaranas-/DrkG639A0k at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:05:04 -0500 Subject: [SPAM] - Re:iptables - Email found in subject In-Reply-To: <305484.98549.qm-oJNNZefkkGSA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <87d4s2jl9s.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> <305484.98549.qm@web61315.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D32E9B6A504554489FFFD81E7FF281305788970@MX01.fxdd.com> As a supplement try to list all loaded modules see if you can find ipt_iprange if not try to load it.. Then re-run the iptable rule.. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of E K Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 9:55 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [SPAM] - Re: [TLUG]: iptables - Email found in subject --- Slackrat wrote: > Can anyone explain why this > iptables -A INPUT -i $WAN_IFACE -m iprange --src-range > 74.6.0.0-74.6.255.255 -j LOG --log-prefix "SURVEY: " > > gives me this > iptables: Unknown error 4294967295 > > I am using a guide at > http://iptables-tutorial.frozentux.net/iptables-tutorial.html#IPRANGEMAT CH > (table 10-18) > > -- Hi, The command looks okay. I run your command on my Ubuntu 7.04 machine changing $WAN_IFACE with eth0 and iptables didn't complain at all. So, either $WAN_IFACE is not set to a valid interface on your machine or the iprange module is not available. Hope that helps Equbay > SlackRat - 4Q to Reply > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It may contain sensitive and private proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. FXDirectDealer, LLC reserves the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them. Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this message is indicative only, is subject to change and does not constitute an offer to deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of executed transactions should be treated as preliminary only and subject to our formal confirmation. FXDirectDealer, LLC is not responsible for any recommendation, solicitation, offer or agreement or any information about any transaction, customer account or account activity contained in this communication. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 15:08:32 2008 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:08:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: iptables In-Reply-To: <87sl0yi5oh.fsf-4/PLUo9XfK9lY98wAZ3ymN+n+qDOcVZb@public.gmane.org> References: <87sl0yi5oh.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Message-ID: <29616.81080.qm@web60112.mail.yahoo.com> --- Slackrat wrote: > Can anyone explain why this > iptables -A INPUT -i $WAN_IFACE -m iprange > --src-range > 74.6.0.0-74.6.255.255 -j LOG --log-prefix "SURVEY: " > > gives me this > iptables: Unknown error 4294967295 This can be an iptables kernel option not set or module not loaded or iptables version out of sync with kernel version. grep for CONFIG_IP_NF or CONFIG_NETFILTER in /usr/src/linux/.config or similar and check for an option not set or compare the list with another box where it works. Fernando > > I am using a guide at > http://iptables-tutorial.frozentux.net/iptables-tutorial.html#IPRANGEMATCH > (table 10-18) > > kernel is 24.4.33.3 > -- > SlackRat > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 15:32:17 2008 From: asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Asaf Maruf) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:32:17 -0500 Subject: iptables In-Reply-To: <29616.81080.qm-gWauPjTcq++A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <87sl0yi5oh.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> <29616.81080.qm@web60112.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49e826e90801160732t17270584v64a2eea879cfeb7@mail.gmail.com> Check if iprange is supported and/or enabled in your kernel. Asaf On Jan 16, 2008 10:08 AM, Fernando Duran wrote: > > --- Slackrat wrote: > > > Can anyone explain why this > > iptables -A INPUT -i $WAN_IFACE -m iprange > > --src-range > > 74.6.0.0-74.6.255.255 -j LOG --log-prefix "SURVEY: " > > > > gives me this > > iptables: Unknown error 4294967295 > > > This can be an iptables kernel option not set or > module not loaded or iptables version out of sync with > kernel version. > > grep for CONFIG_IP_NF or CONFIG_NETFILTER in > /usr/src/linux/.config or similar and check for an > option not set or compare the list with another box > where it works. > > Fernando > > > > > > I am using a guide at > > > http://iptables-tutorial.frozentux.net/iptables-tutorial.html#IPRANGEMATCH > > (table 10-18) > > > > kernel is 24.4.33.3 > > -- > > SlackRat > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > > http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > > below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > --------------------- > Fernando Duran > http://www.fduran.com > > > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/ > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- "I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." - Richard P. Feynman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 15:40:07 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:40:07 -0500 Subject: Sun acquires MySQL Message-ID: <478E2557.3090606@telly.org> Hmmm. http://blogs.sun.com/jonathan/ http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/16/135243 - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 18:42:18 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:42:18 -0500 Subject: OT: legal obligations Message-ID: <478E5009.20904@rogers.com> Hi Folk, I repair PCs for a living and since most members of the public think that a back up is something you do when you put a car in reverse, this often entails digging through an old hard drive trying to recover files. I was doing just that on the weekend when news of the recent arrests for child porn activities were announced. This got me to wondering what my, and other computer techs', obligations are if we find illegal content when doing a similar search? Thoughts? John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 18:56:12 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:56:12 -0500 Subject: OT: legal obligations In-Reply-To: <478E5009.20904-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <478E5009.20904@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200801161356.16249.jamon.camisso@utoronto.ca> On January 16, 2008 13:42:18 John McGregor wrote: > Hi Folk, > I repair PCs for a living and since most members of the > public think that a back up is something you do when you put a car in > reverse, this often entails digging through an old hard drive trying > to recover files. I was doing just that on the weekend when news of > the recent arrests for child porn activities were announced. This got > me to wondering what my, and other computer techs', obligations are > if we find illegal content when doing a similar search? Thoughts? Legal or ethical? Legally I don't think we have any in Ontario (whereas Manitoba just introduced legislation aimed at just that question). Likely if you were party to the information you could be held liable for at least negligence. Ethically, I'm not sure the question even bears asking. I couldn't imagine being able to sleep at night without reporting such egregious activities. There are exceptions to doctor/patient disclosure, and lawyer/client privileges. There is a need for information professionals to have some sort of privacy guarantee for users in most cases, but there must be provisions for exceptions like the one you've mentioned. Jamon -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 19:10:49 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:10:49 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080114145833.GR2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109172927.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080109214943.10865.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109224638.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080110002535.13868.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080110015152.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4786B0CD.7060800@chrisaitken.net> <32f6a8880801101623y2dd23c44l50a1beb7c8a443db@mail.gmail.com> <20080111141826.GO2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080111231157.22527.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080114145833.GR2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080116191049.31384.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Lennart Sorensen writes: > On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 06:11:57PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: >> devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install ssh-server >> [sudo] password for devon: >> Reading package lists... Done >> Building dependency tree >> Reading state information... Done >> Package ssh-server is a virtual package provided by: >> openssh-server 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 >> lsh-server 2.0.2-1.1 >> You should explicitly select one to install. >> E: Package ssh-server has no installation candidate >> devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install openssh-server 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 > > If you want to specify a version, put an = between the packagename and > version. > > In your case all you have to do is: > > apt-get install openssh-server Okay, I tried to do that and was advised to other stuff first: devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install openssh-server [sudo] password for devon: E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem. devon at devon:~$ sudo dpkg --configure -a Setting up java-common (0.26ubuntu1) ... Setting up odbcinst1debian1 (2.2.11-16) ... Setting up unixodbc (2.2.11-16) ... Setting up gcc-3.3-base (1:3.3.6-15ubuntu2) ... Setting up libstdc++5 (1:3.3.6-15ubuntu2) ... Processing triggers for libc6 ... ldconfig deferred processing now taking place devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install openssh-server Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these: The following packages have unmet dependencies: openssh-server: Depends: openssh-client (= 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1) but 1:4.6p1-5build1 is to be installed sun-java6-jre: Depends: sun-java6-bin (= 6-03-0ubuntu2) but it is not going to be installed or ia32-sun-java6-bin (= 6-03-0ubuntu2) but it is not installable E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution). devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get -f install Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Correcting dependencies... Done The following extra packages will be installed: sun-java6-bin sun-java6-jre Suggested packages: binfmt-support sun-java6-plugin ia32-sun-java6-plugin sun-java6-fonts Recommended packages: gsfonts-x11 The following NEW packages will be installed: sun-java6-bin The following packages will be upgraded: sun-java6-jre 1 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 122 not upgraded. 1 not fully installed or removed. Need to get 0B/32.7MB of archives. After unpacking, 93.6MB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue [Y/n]? Y Preconfiguring packages ... (Reading database ... dpkg: serious warning: files list file for package `sun-java6-jre' missing, assuming package has no files currently installed. 105054 files and directories currently installed.) Unpacking sun-java6-bin (from .../sun-java6-bin_6-03-0ubuntu2_i386.deb) ... Preparing to replace sun-java6-jre 6-03-0ubuntu2 (using .../sun-java6-jre_6-03-0ubuntu2_all.deb) ... sun-dlj-v1-1 license has already been accepted Unpacking replacement sun-java6-jre ... Setting up sun-java6-bin (6-03-0ubuntu2) ... No theme index file in '/usr/share/icons/sun-java6.png'. If you really want to create an icon cache here, use --ignore-theme-index. Setting up sun-java6-jre (6-03-0ubuntu2) ... devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install openssh-server Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done The following extra packages will be installed: openssh-client Suggested packages: libpam-ssh keychain rssh molly-guard The following NEW packages will be installed: openssh-server The following packages will be upgraded: openssh-client 1 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 121 not upgraded. Need to get 904kB of archives. After unpacking, 655kB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue [Y/n]? Y Get:1 http://security.ubuntu.com gutsy-security/main openssh-client 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 [656kB] Get:2 http://security.ubuntu.com gutsy-security/main openssh-server 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 [247kB] Fetched 904kB in 20s (43.1kB/s) Preconfiguring packages ... (Reading database ... 105962 files and directories currently installed.) Preparing to replace openssh-client 1:4.6p1-5build1 (using .../openssh-client_1%3a4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1_i386.deb) ... Unpacking replacement openssh-client ... Selecting previously deselected package openssh-server. Unpacking openssh-server (from .../openssh-server_1%3a4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1_i386.deb) ... Setting up openssh-client (1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1) ... Setting up openssh-server (1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1) ... Creating SSH2 RSA key; this may take some time ... Creating SSH2 DSA key; this may take some time ... * Restarting OpenBSD Secure Shell server sshd [ OK ] After all that I still can't use scp: devon at devon:~$ sudo scp /home/devon/darepromise.odt 192.168.0.2:/home/chris/Desktop ssh: connect to host 192.168.0.2 port 22: Connection refused lost connection I can ping that computer though: devon at devon:~$ ping 192.168.0.2 PING 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.198 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.187 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.185 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=0.181 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=0.182 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=6 ttl=64 time=0.182 ms ^C64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=7 ttl=64 time=0.188 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=8 ttl=64 time=0.182 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=9 ttl=64 time=0.184 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=10 ttl=64 time=0.187 ms --- 192.168.0.2 ping statistics --- 10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 8999ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.181/0.185/0.198/0.015 ms devon at devon:~$ Chris > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 19:11:50 2008 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:11:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: legal obligations In-Reply-To: <478E5009.20904-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <478E5009.20904@rogers.com> Message-ID: <35889.56179.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- John McGregor wrote: > Hi Folk, > I repair PCs for a living and since most > members of the public > think that a back up is something you do when you > put a car in reverse, > this often entails digging through an old hard drive > trying to recover > files. I was doing just that on the weekend when > news of the recent > arrests for child porn activities were announced. > This got me to > wondering what my, and other computer techs', > obligations are if we find > illegal content when doing a similar search? > Thoughts? Talk to a lawyer is my advice. Some 10 years ago, in the early day of the Toronto Free-Net we had one brain-less ass (BA) who decided to e-mail child porn to every then member of the Toronto Free-Net board (yes, I was at that time a Toronto Free-Net board member (still am)). Within 5 minutes of my seeing that e-mail I was on the phone to the Toronto Free-Net's lawyer asking "what do we do?". Needless to say the instructions from lawyer were followed to the letter... The police didn't act, and next board meeting BA showed up protesting. Seems that the Free-Net was evil because as an ISP it was possible to get at child porn on the net if you looked, and Free-Net was even more evil for sacking his account within minutes for exposing this... Some folks... Regardless, possession of child porn for ANY reason is I gather illegal (even if in the case of the Free-net board it was MOST unwanted). Ignoring is not an option in my view (if it is later discovered that you knew about the porn and ignored it, you could be in trouble). By having a lawyer act as a go between you can clearly show that you were acting in good faith, and you can keep yourself out of legal trouble... > John Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 19:13:35 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:13:35 -0500 Subject: OT: legal obligations In-Reply-To: <478E5009.20904-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <478E5009.20904@rogers.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0801161113m6d8e37aarb08b9930ebbb9eb3@mail.gmail.com> Not sure about the specifics of this province, but: http://www.justice.gc.ca/en/ps/fm/childafs.html "Most provincial and territorial child welfare laws require those (including professionals and members of the public) who suspect that a child is being maltreated to make a report to the appropriate child welfare authority." I'm not sure how it specifically applies to the images, as they may or may not indicate that the owner of the machine in question is actually engaged in abuse. If in doubt, I suppose you would have to reference the province's laws if you can find them, or contact a professional. Regards, TJA p.s. I'm not a lawyer, and the above is not legal advice. On Jan 16, 2008 1:42 PM, John McGregor wrote: > Hi Folk, > I repair PCs for a living and since most members of the public > think that a back up is something you do when you put a car in reverse, > this often entails digging through an old hard drive trying to recover > files. I was doing just that on the weekend when news of the recent > arrests for child porn activities were announced. This got me to > wondering what my, and other computer techs', obligations are if we find > illegal content when doing a similar search? Thoughts? > > John > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 477-1784 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 19:17:11 2008 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:17:11 -0500 Subject: [SPAM] -Domain registration and hosting - Email found in subject In-Reply-To: References: <6a394d3b0801150954lf2e082fq60da1fdc21e8b193@mail.gmail.com> <4D32E9B6A504554489FFFD81E7FF281305788965@MX01.fxdd.com> Message-ID: <478E5837.2010800@primus.ca> jmacaranas wrote: > Why not register the domain yourself? Godaddy.com has some cheap domains. Christopher Browne wrote: > I would "second" this, for a further reason... > > If your Hosting Provider does the domain registration for you, then > *THEY* are the ones that hold the registration. If you ever have need > to change providers, then they may be in a position to hold the domain > name "hostage," and if they were the ones who paid for it, you may > have to hire lawyers and such to fight for the name. You may be in > the right, but it may co$t thou$and$ to e$tabli$h that. Domains registered through GoDaddy always display the following: Registrar Status: clientDeleteProhibited Registrar Status: clientRenewProhibited Registrar Status: clientTransferProhibited Registrar Status: clientUpdateProhibited Every time I see it, I wonder if it means that a person or organization has traded being hostage to GoDaddy for being hostage to their Hosting Provider. It certainly looks that way. Isn't one as bad as the other? Isn't that potentially penny wise and pound foolish? When a business is sold, one of the valuable assets for sale is their good name (goodwill). Today, their "good domain name" is another asset. When a client wants advice about registering a TLD, I recommend using a full service registrar, such as Webnames.ca[***], so that the client controls ALL their options. Considering the long run, the additional expense is not significant. Look elsewhere for Web Hosting according to your needs. Besides, when the name "GoDaddy" appears on my screen, the little birdie on my shoulder goes "Cheep, cheep, cheap." I really dislike that name. The foregoing is based on my long-standing business motto: "Quality. Service. Price. Pick any two." [***] I have absolutely no affiliation whatsoever. Honest. . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 19:19:50 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:19:50 -0500 Subject: OT: legal obligations In-Reply-To: <35889.56179.qm-p6KvMhi7PWKB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <478E5009.20904@rogers.com> <35889.56179.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0801161119l19dc81d2q5c75df1c48868c74@mail.gmail.com> Again, not legal advice, but I'd imagine that the context needs to be looked at somewhat. If you somehow find a few banner-ad sized pictures in a client's internet cache it could have been a leftover from browsing of any site (many warez sites have questionable banners). Mind you in most cases you probably wouldn't run across this in casual maintenance. If there's an actual repository on the computer it would be a different story... with the client obviously hoarding the illegal content... On Jan 16, 2008 2:11 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > --- John McGregor wrote: > > Hi Folk, > > I repair PCs for a living and since most > > members of the public > > think that a back up is something you do when you > > put a car in reverse, > > this often entails digging through an old hard drive > > trying to recover > > files. I was doing just that on the weekend when > > news of the recent > > arrests for child porn activities were announced. > > This got me to > > wondering what my, and other computer techs', > > obligations are if we find > > illegal content when doing a similar search? > > Thoughts? > > Talk to a lawyer is my advice. > > Some 10 years ago, in the early day of the Toronto > Free-Net we had one brain-less ass (BA) who decided to > e-mail child porn to every then member of the Toronto > Free-Net board (yes, I was at that time a Toronto > Free-Net board member (still am)). Within 5 minutes of > my seeing that e-mail I was on the phone to the > Toronto Free-Net's lawyer asking "what do we do?". > Needless to say the instructions from lawyer were > followed to the letter... > > The police didn't act, and next board meeting BA > showed up protesting. Seems that the Free-Net was evil > because as an ISP it was possible to get at child porn > on the net if you looked, and Free-Net was even more > evil for sacking his account within minutes for > exposing this... Some folks... > > Regardless, possession of child porn for ANY reason is > I gather illegal (even if in the case of the Free-net > board it was MOST unwanted). Ignoring is not an option > in my view (if it is later discovered that you knew > about the porn and ignored it, you could be in > trouble). By having a lawyer act as a go between you > can clearly show that you were acting in good faith, > and you can keep yourself out of legal trouble... > > > John > > Colin. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 477-1784 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 19:27:24 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:27:24 -0500 Subject: OT: legal obligations In-Reply-To: <200801161356.16249.jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <478E5009.20904@rogers.com> <200801161356.16249.jamon.camisso@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <478E5A9C.8080303@rogers.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > On January 16, 2008 13:42:18 John McGregor wrote: > >> Hi Folk, >> I repair PCs for a living and since most members of the >> public think that a back up is something you do when you put a car in >> reverse, this often entails digging through an old hard drive trying >> to recover files. I was doing just that on the weekend when news of >> the recent arrests for child porn activities were announced. This got >> me to wondering what my, and other computer techs', obligations are >> if we find illegal content when doing a similar search? Thoughts? >> > > Legal or ethical? Legally I don't think we have any in Ontario (whereas > Manitoba just introduced legislation aimed at just that question). > Likely if you were party to the information you could be held liable > for at least negligence. > > Ethically, I'm not sure the question even bears asking. I couldn't > imagine being able to sleep at night without reporting such egregious > activities. > > There are exceptions to doctor/patient disclosure, and lawyer/client > privileges. There is a need for information professionals to have some > sort of privacy guarantee for users in most cases, but there must be > provisions for exceptions like the one you've mentioned. > > Jamon > I seem to recall a case not to long ago, about such stuff found on a computer in for repair. IIRC, the point was made that such stuff should be reported. Also, I have a friend who's a psychologist who is supposed to report to police, a patient she considers a significant risk to others, despite privacy concerns. They same thing applies to physicians or eye doctors, who have a patient that's no longer capable of driving safely. They are required, by law, to report that person. Bottom line, privacy rules, unless it will result in danger to others. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 19:38:46 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:38:46 -0500 Subject: [SPAM] -Domain registration and hosting - Email found in subject In-Reply-To: <478E5837.2010800-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <6a394d3b0801150954lf2e082fq60da1fdc21e8b193@mail.gmail.com> <478E5837.2010800@primus.ca> Message-ID: <200801161438.50020.jamon.camisso@utoronto.ca> On January 16, 2008 14:17:11 George Nicol wrote: > jmacaranas wrote: > > Why not register the domain yourself? Godaddy.com has some cheap > > domains. > > Christopher Browne wrote: > > I would "second" this, for a further reason... > > > > If your Hosting Provider does the domain registration for you, then > > *THEY* are the ones that hold the registration. If you ever have > > need to change providers, then they may be in a position to hold > > the domain name "hostage," and if they were the ones who paid for > > it, you may have to hire lawyers and such to fight for the name. > > You may be in the right, but it may co$t thou$and$ to e$tabli$h > > that. > > Domains registered through GoDaddy always display the following: > > Registrar Status: clientDeleteProhibited > Registrar Status: clientRenewProhibited > Registrar Status: clientTransferProhibited > Registrar Status: clientUpdateProhibited > > Every time I see it, I wonder if it means that a person or > organization has traded being hostage to GoDaddy for being hostage to > their Hosting Provider. It certainly looks that way. Isn't one as bad > as the other? Isn't that potentially penny wise and pound foolish? > > When a business is sold, one of the valuable assets for sale is their > good name (goodwill). Today, their "good domain name" is another > asset. When a client wants advice about registering a TLD, I > recommend using a full service registrar, such as Webnames.ca[***], > so that the client controls ALL their options. Considering the long > run, the additional expense is not significant. Look elsewhere for > Web Hosting according to your needs. > > Besides, when the name "GoDaddy" appears on my screen, the little > birdie on my shoulder goes "Cheep, cheep, cheap." I really dislike > that name. > > The foregoing is based on my long-standing business motto: > "Quality. Service. Price. Pick any two." Their service had better be the best in the business for the $50 pricetag they have for .ca domains. That's for their basic plan which doesn't even include using their nameservers... Jamon -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 19:47:15 2008 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:47:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [SPAM] -Domain registration and hosting - Email found in subject In-Reply-To: <200801161438.50020.jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <6a394d3b0801150954lf2e082fq60da1fdc21e8b193@mail.gmail.com> <478E5837.2010800@primus.ca> <200801161438.50020.jamon.camisso@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Their service had better be the best in the business for the $50 > pricetag they have for .ca domains. That's for their basic plan > which doesn't even include using their nameservers... i personally registered three .ca domains this morning thru domainsatcost.ca, for $14 each for one year. rday p.s. i have no vested interest in that registration service, it just works for me. -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Home page: http://crashcourse.ca Fedora Cookbook: http://crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Fedora_Cookbook ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 19:50:37 2008 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:50:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: [SPAM] -Domain registration and hosting - Email found in subject In-Reply-To: References: <6a394d3b0801150954lf2e082fq60da1fdc21e8b193@mail.gmail.com> <478E5837.2010800@primus.ca> <200801161438.50020.jamon.camisso@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Jamon Camisso wrote: > > > Their service had better be the best in the business for the $50 > > pricetag they have for .ca domains. That's for their basic plan > > which doesn't even include using their nameservers... > > i personally registered three .ca domains this morning thru > domainsatcost.ca, for $14 each for one year. > > rday > > p.s. i have no vested interest in that registration service, it just > works for me. > -- that was for the registration only. after i re-read the above, i realized that the OP might have been talking about basic hosting as well. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Home page: http://crashcourse.ca Fedora Cookbook: http://crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Fedora_Cookbook ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 19:54:01 2008 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:54:01 -0500 Subject: OT: legal obligations In-Reply-To: <478E5009.20904-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <478E5009.20904@rogers.com> Message-ID: <478E60D9.9020300@primus.ca> John McGregor wrote: > wondering what my, and other computer techs', obligations are if > we find illegal content when doing a similar search? Thoughts? 1) Calm down and MYOB. 2) Take an Ethical Hacker course. 3) Do not leap to conclusions. 4) For legal advice, consult a lawyer. Do you think a child pornographer would seek your help? Do you understand the consequences of misreporting this? . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 20:32:45 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:32:45 -0500 Subject: OT: legal obligations In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0801161113m6d8e37aarb08b9930ebbb9eb3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <478E5009.20904@rogers.com> <3a97ef0801161113m6d8e37aarb08b9930ebbb9eb3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478E69ED.2000303@telly.org> Tyler Aviss wrote: > "Most provincial and territorial child welfare laws require those > (including professionals and members of the public) who suspect that a > child is being maltreated to make a report to the appropriate child > welfare authority." > The timing of this is interesting, considering that a precedent was set recently on this issue. A school principal and VP were recently charged for being aware of a sexual assault of a student in their school and not reporting it. http://www.thestar.com/article/291584 This is the first time, apparently, that criminal charges have been laid for failing to report. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 20:53:37 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:53:37 -0500 Subject: OT: legal obligations In-Reply-To: <478E69ED.2000303-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <478E5009.20904@rogers.com> <3a97ef0801161113m6d8e37aarb08b9930ebbb9eb3@mail.gmail.com> <478E69ED.2000303@telly.org> Message-ID: <3a97ef0801161253p2bbef0bal88515a7e62cf7800@mail.gmail.com> As well they should be, though it appears to be the fine for this is only $1000. My experience with some schools (both as a student and - previously - as a staff member) is that they will often sweep issues of violence or other distasteful activities under the rug, trying to deal with them (poorly) internally rather than face the embarrassment of the publicity. I'm not sure if this really translates to IT though. To play devil's advocate on both sides: the possession of certain varieties of pictures is not legal, but can come about in a legal manner (the aforementioned warez site banners). Anything which strongly points to abuse would likely be a case for reporting. I wouldn't at all hesitate if I was repairing a computer and came across pictures of abuse wherein the PC owner was obviously involved (for example, in the picture/video committing the illegal act). If the owner was "very likely" involved (pictures of his/her own child in an abuse situation, but the owner is not visible in the picture) I would likely seek legal advise about notifying the owner (he/she may not be involved in the abuse), but still lean towards also making a police report. There are a ton of scary grey areas though. How about pictures of the teen son/daughter which may be taken by his/her significant other? How about when kids download questionable images? That last one I know somebody who had an experience wherein a computer he was repairing contained images/links that appeared to be on the young side, as well as various links to material involving explicit activities with animals. The thing was that those images were under the younger son's account, which was passworded, and the mother really didn't appear to know enough to have been the culprit. Personally, one of the scenarios that scares me the most is when I am re-imaging or re-storing hard-drives and backing them up to my USB storage drive. Who knows what kind of crap is going to end up on there, and even after it's deleted it could perhaps be restored. These days I don't do side-work though, and it's not a situation I'm likely to run across in my day-job, but it's still a scary thought. On Jan 16, 2008 3:32 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Tyler Aviss wrote: > > "Most provincial and territorial child welfare laws require those > > (including professionals and members of the public) who suspect that a > > child is being maltreated to make a report to the appropriate child > > welfare authority." > > > > The timing of this is interesting, considering that a precedent was set > recently on this issue. A school principal and VP were recently charged > for being aware of a sexual assault of a student in their school and not > reporting it. > > http://www.thestar.com/article/291584 > > This is the first time, apparently, that criminal charges have been laid > for failing to report. > > - Evan > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 477-1784 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 21:15:37 2008 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:15:37 -0500 Subject: [SPAM] -Domain registration and hosting - Email found in subject In-Reply-To: <200801161438.50020.jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <6a394d3b0801150954lf2e082fq60da1fdc21e8b193@mail.gmail.com> <478E5837.2010800@primus.ca> <200801161438.50020.jamon.camisso@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <478E73F9.8030502@primus.ca> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Their service had better be the best in the business for the $50 > pricetag they have for .ca domains. That's for their basic plan > which doesn't even include using their nameservers... In an enterprise scenario, it's a good value. The detailed reasons behind the business decision will only swerve the thread. YMMV. That said, I was unaware of both VPSLink (thanks, Alorane) and domainsatcost.ca (thanks, RPJ Day) and will investigate both. Since my clients are locked-in to neither a registrar nor me, they have the freedom to adapt for a better deal without jeopardizing their domain name or being held to ransom. Priceless. Of course, they're also educated about Open Source. I'm intrigued by the "domainsatcost" name. A not-for-profit, eh? . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 21:35:35 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:35:35 -0500 Subject: OT: legal obligations Message-ID: <478E78A7.6040805@rogers.com> George Nicol wrote: > 1) Calm down and MYOB. > 2) Take an Ethical Hacker course. > 3) Do not leap to conclusions. > 4) For legal advice, consult a lawyer. > > Do you think a child pornographer would seek your help? > Do you understand the consequences of misreporting this? I worked for a large social service organization here in Toronto for twenty years and it has been my experience that in the grey areas of child welfare legislation, the police have a strong tendency to lay charges by default and then let the courts decide innocence. In light of this, I'd like to know what my obligations are upon discovery of illicit content and the best way to proceed. I don't want to find myself dancing in a minefield through inaction or ignorance of the law, if a little research will help me avoid it. I don't think that people that delve into child porn are necessarily a bright lot and yes, they very well might take a computer ( that contains this crap) in for repair. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 22:38:51 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:38:51 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080116191049.31384.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109224638.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080110002535.13868.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080110015152.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4786B0CD.7060800@chrisaitken.net> <32f6a8880801101623y2dd23c44l50a1beb7c8a443db@mail.gmail.com> <20080111141826.GO2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080111231157.22527.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080114145833.GR2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080116191049.31384.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880801161438s62a049eaj8a84668a8facc3ba@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Do you have SSH installed on this system: 192.168.0.2 Have you tried sshing into the 192.168.0.2 without a problem? Try this and see if it succeeds: ssh -l 192.168.0.2 It says the connection refused so im thinking the openssh server is not running. On Jan 16, 2008 2:10 PM, wrote: > Lennart Sorensen writes: > > > On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 06:11:57PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install ssh-server > >> [sudo] password for devon: > >> Reading package lists... Done > >> Building dependency tree > >> Reading state information... Done > >> Package ssh-server is a virtual package provided by: > >> openssh-server 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 > >> lsh-server 2.0.2-1.1 > >> You should explicitly select one to install. > >> E: Package ssh-server has no installation candidate > >> devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install openssh-server 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 > > > > If you want to specify a version, put an = between the packagename and > > version. > > > > In your case all you have to do is: > > > > apt-get install openssh-server > > Okay, I tried to do that and was advised to other stuff first: > > devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install openssh-server > [sudo] password for devon: > E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'dpkg --configure -a' to > correct the problem. > devon at devon:~$ sudo dpkg --configure -a > Setting up java-common (0.26ubuntu1) ... > > Setting up odbcinst1debian1 (2.2.11-16) ... > > Setting up unixodbc (2.2.11-16) ... > > Setting up gcc-3.3-base (1:3.3.6-15ubuntu2) ... > Setting up libstdc++5 (1:3.3.6-15ubuntu2) ... > > Processing triggers for libc6 ... > ldconfig deferred processing now taking place > devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install openssh-server > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree > Reading state information... Done > You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these: > The following packages have unmet dependencies: > openssh-server: Depends: openssh-client (= 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1) but > 1:4.6p1-5build1 is to be installed > sun-java6-jre: Depends: sun-java6-bin (= 6-03-0ubuntu2) but it is not going > to be installed or > ia32-sun-java6-bin (= 6-03-0ubuntu2) but it is not > installable > E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify > a solution). > devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get -f install > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree > Reading state information... Done > Correcting dependencies... Done > The following extra packages will be installed: > sun-java6-bin sun-java6-jre > Suggested packages: > binfmt-support sun-java6-plugin ia32-sun-java6-plugin sun-java6-fonts > Recommended packages: > gsfonts-x11 > The following NEW packages will be installed: > sun-java6-bin > The following packages will be upgraded: > sun-java6-jre > 1 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 122 not upgraded. > 1 not fully installed or removed. > Need to get 0B/32.7MB of archives. > After unpacking, 93.6MB of additional disk space will be used. > Do you want to continue [Y/n]? Y > Preconfiguring packages ... > (Reading database ... > dpkg: serious warning: files list file for package `sun-java6-jre' missing, > assuming package has no files currently installed. > 105054 files and directories currently installed.) > Unpacking sun-java6-bin (from .../sun-java6-bin_6-03-0ubuntu2_i386.deb) ... > Preparing to replace sun-java6-jre 6-03-0ubuntu2 (using > .../sun-java6-jre_6-03-0ubuntu2_all.deb) ... > sun-dlj-v1-1 license has already been accepted > Unpacking replacement sun-java6-jre ... > Setting up sun-java6-bin (6-03-0ubuntu2) ... > No theme index file in '/usr/share/icons/sun-java6.png'. > If you really want to create an icon cache here, use --ignore-theme-index. > > Setting up sun-java6-jre (6-03-0ubuntu2) ... > > devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install openssh-server > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree > Reading state information... Done > The following extra packages will be installed: > openssh-client > Suggested packages: > libpam-ssh keychain rssh molly-guard > The following NEW packages will be installed: > openssh-server > The following packages will be upgraded: > openssh-client > 1 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 121 not upgraded. > Need to get 904kB of archives. > After unpacking, 655kB of additional disk space will be used. > Do you want to continue [Y/n]? Y > Get:1 http://security.ubuntu.com gutsy-security/main openssh-client > 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 [656kB] > Get:2 http://security.ubuntu.com gutsy-security/main openssh-server > 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 [247kB] > Fetched 904kB in 20s (43.1kB/s) > Preconfiguring packages ... > (Reading database ... 105962 files and directories currently installed.) > Preparing to replace openssh-client 1:4.6p1-5build1 (using > .../openssh-client_1%3a4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1_i386.deb) ... > Unpacking replacement openssh-client ... > Selecting previously deselected package openssh-server. > Unpacking openssh-server (from > .../openssh-server_1%3a4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1_i386.deb) ... > Setting up openssh-client (1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1) ... > > Setting up openssh-server (1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1) ... > Creating SSH2 RSA key; this may take some time ... > Creating SSH2 DSA key; this may take some time ... > * Restarting OpenBSD Secure Shell server sshd > [ OK ] > > After all that I still can't use scp: > > devon at devon:~$ sudo scp /home/devon/darepromise.odt > 192.168.0.2:/home/chris/Desktop > ssh: connect to host 192.168.0.2 port 22: Connection refused > lost connection > > I can ping that computer though: > devon at devon:~$ ping 192.168.0.2 > PING 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2) 56(84) bytes of data. > 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.198 ms > 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.187 ms > 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.185 ms > 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=0.181 ms > 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=0.182 ms > 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=6 ttl=64 time=0.182 ms > ^C64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=7 ttl=64 time=0.188 ms > 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=8 ttl=64 time=0.182 ms > 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=9 ttl=64 time=0.184 ms > 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=10 ttl=64 time=0.187 ms > > --- 192.168.0.2 ping statistics --- > 10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 8999ms > rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.181/0.185/0.198/0.015 ms > devon at devon:~$ > > Chris > > > > -- > > Len Sorensen > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 22:41:16 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:41:16 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801161438s62a049eaj8a84668a8facc3ba-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080110002535.13868.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080110015152.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4786B0CD.7060800@chrisaitken.net> <32f6a8880801101623y2dd23c44l50a1beb7c8a443db@mail.gmail.com> <20080111141826.GO2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080111231157.22527.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080114145833.GR2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080116191049.31384.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <32f6a8880801161438s62a049eaj8a84668a8facc3ba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880801161441m5f84f994o622f7966f6ad95f9@mail.gmail.com> Try running these commands on your 192.168.0.2: # netstat -ant | grep "22" You can also run these commands to verify ssh is running: # ps -ef | grep ssh You may need to edit the /etc/ssh/sshd_config to your preferences. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 23:00:25 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:00:25 +0000 Subject: OT: legal obligations In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0801161253p2bbef0bal88515a7e62cf7800-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <478E5009.20904@rogers.com> <3a97ef0801161113m6d8e37aarb08b9930ebbb9eb3@mail.gmail.com> <478E69ED.2000303@telly.org> <3a97ef0801161253p2bbef0bal88515a7e62cf7800@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jan 16, 2008 8:53 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > As well they should be, though it appears to be the fine for this is > only $1000. My experience with some schools (both as a student and - > previously - as a staff member) is that they will often sweep issues > of violence or other distasteful activities under the rug, trying to > deal with them (poorly) internally rather than face the embarrassment > of the publicity. The cost of dealing with it "straightforwardly" is a whole lot higher than $1000... A relative of mine had a somewhat similar situation brought to him, where someone was accused of pedophilic behaviour, and he took the matter to the police. The guilty individual is now incarcerated, as seems pretty proper. The police were quite complimentary of the relative's handling of things. Unfortunately, the price, to my relative, was painfully high in the personal terms of having been drawn into the case as a witness and, much more painfully, as a focal point for members of the community who had been affected, directly or indirectly, by the guilty individual. I think the worst part was that a number of people were actively nonsupportive - they would much rather that the matter had been swept under the carpet, rather than being publicized, and thereby causing "organizational embarrassment." (Their sole injury was that embarrassment.) There has been a lot of hurt over quite a number of years, and that came for doing the *right* thing. I quite understand how someone could prefer to evade that sort of thing. It's not a good thing, but getting drawn into this sort of problem draws everyone involved into a very ugly place, and that comes at considerable personal cost. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 01:25:09 2008 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:25:09 -0500 Subject: OT: legal obligations In-Reply-To: <478E5009.20904-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <478E5009.20904@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080116202509.8c70a744.hgibson@eol.ca> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:42:18 -0500 John McGregor wrote: > Hi Folk, > I repair PCs for a living and since most members of the public > think that a back up is something you do when you put a car in reverse, > this often entails digging through an old hard drive trying to recover > files. I was doing just that on the weekend when news of the recent > arrests for child porn activities were announced. This got me to > wondering what my, and other computer techs', obligations are if we find > illegal content when doing a similar search? Thoughts? John, Two thoughts. Perhaps we should get lawyers to repair our computers. Lawyer client communications are confidential. As a computer repair guy, you are not licensed or certified, as far as I know. You have no legal status as far as communications with your customer are concerned. What happens when you call a plumber, and he sees the posters in your bathroom? The opposite case is interesting too. When I take my computer in for service, what are the repair guy's obligations to me when he finds interesting stuff on my computer? It might not be kiddieporn, but it can be copyright. Perhaps I did not think through the implications of a non-disclosure agreement I signed. Is there any reason a minimum wage technician should not pass my emails from Paris Hilton on the National Enquirer? How about online passwords stored as cookies in plain text? -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 01:22:50 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:22:50 -0500 Subject: OT: legal obligations In-Reply-To: <20080116202509.8c70a744.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <478E5009.20904@rogers.com> <20080116202509.8c70a744.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0801161722l2f9832fo4c04e156a8d62b6f@mail.gmail.com> To add to that.... how about your collection of pirated music and/or mp3's? How many people *don't* have that on their PC? On Jan 16, 2008 8:25 PM, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:42:18 -0500 > John McGregor wrote: > > > Hi Folk, > > I repair PCs for a living and since most members of the public > > think that a back up is something you do when you put a car in reverse, > > this often entails digging through an old hard drive trying to recover > > files. I was doing just that on the weekend when news of the recent > > arrests for child porn activities were announced. This got me to > > wondering what my, and other computer techs', obligations are if we find > > illegal content when doing a similar search? Thoughts? > > John, > > Two thoughts. > > Perhaps we should get lawyers to repair our computers. Lawyer client communications are confidential. As a computer repair guy, you are not licensed or certified, as far as I know. You have no legal status as far as communications with your customer are concerned. What happens when you call a plumber, and he sees the posters in your bathroom? > > The opposite case is interesting too. When I take my computer in for service, what are the repair guy's obligations to me when he finds interesting stuff on my computer? It might not be kiddieporn, but it can be copyright. Perhaps I did not think through the implications of a non-disclosure agreement I signed. Is there any reason a minimum wage technician should not pass my emails from Paris Hilton on the National Enquirer? How about online passwords stored as cookies in plain text? > > -- > Howard Gibson > hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org > howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org > http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 477-1784 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 01:26:58 2008 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:26:58 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <20080114150805.GT2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <20080114015911.GA20461@waltdnes.org> <20080114150805.GT2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080117012658.GA30496@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 10:08:05AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote > That doesn't make sense. No athlon ever had sse2. The athlon 64 does, > but it is -march=athlon64 not athlon. Sorry. I should've copied+pasted when replying. I tried reading and remembering. They say that memory is the second thing to go. I forget what the first is. -- Walter Dnes I'm not repeating myself I'm an X Window user... I'm an ex-Windows-user -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 01:33:57 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:33:57 -0500 Subject: OT: legal obligations In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0801161722l2f9832fo4c04e156a8d62b6f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <478E5009.20904@rogers.com> <20080116202509.8c70a744.hgibson@eol.ca> <3a97ef0801161722l2f9832fo4c04e156a8d62b6f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478EB085.4070909@rogers.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > To add to that.... how about your collection of pirated music and/or mp3's? > How many people *don't* have that on their PC? > I don't have pirated music. While there are some MP3's, they're of CD's I own legally. I don't download music from anywhere. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 01:48:32 2008 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:48:32 -0500 Subject: Phisher of the Week In-Reply-To: <1793.99.232.68.237.1200432503.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <1793.99.232.68.237.1200432503.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1200534512.5796.1.camel@aragorn> I am afraid, Phil, this has already happened: On a spam I received: > Love Is... http://68.150.194.223/ There you have it. Romantic poetry in octal. On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 16:28 -0500, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > I Dream of you http://89.76.176.26/ > > ============================================= > > Is this what romance has come to? People pining for others..in octets? > > People furtively handing off at parties a scrap of paper with > their..internet address in octal? > > What's next, romantic poetry in an ascii-coded memory dump? > > Sigh. > > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > � -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 02:00:48 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:00:48 -0500 Subject: Symantec Gateway Model 5420 issues Message-ID: <1f13df280801161800m76e0ecf2v513a0913bb461f9a@mail.gmail.com> A friend is having some trouble at work with a Symantec Gateway Model 5420 firewall. It's proxying outbound traffic for about 160 people and inbound to their webserver which is in a separate DMZ on its own network card. The firewall has recently load-spiked and entirely stalled a couple times and they have no idea why since the device has been working pretty well for about three years. I was asked to look at it because I have some knowledge of Linux, but couldn't figure out what the problem was. What follows is semi-random notes and observations in the hopes that someone can suggest a plan of action. The box is a 1U including a 2 GHz Celeron, 512 Mb of RAM, a 40 Gb HD, and three network cards. It appears to run on a modified RedHat 7.1 system with kernel 2.4.26. The kernel build date is quite recent, I think October or November of 2007, so there have been updates. I was fascinated to find that the HD is using LVM, and the three partitions are all reiserfs. Over a couple hours of observation, I saw the load fluctuate between 0.1 and 0.7. This seemed a bit high to me considering that this is an application where the load can surge quite abruptly? There's a 2Gb swap partition, which was only slightly used. I thought the cheapest possible test would be to stick in more memory, but unfortunately this box apparently maxes out at 512Mb, already installed. It's possible to SSH into the box, but apparently Symantec intended you to access it primarily through the Java browser interface (which runs Java both on the client and the server, and, ironically, is itself the source of quite a bit of processor load when you look at the rather large logs). /var/log/messages has very little in it at all, and nothing out of the ordinary at all when the spikes happened. The "interesting" logs are in /var/log/sg/ and are in a binary format (with some text) that I don't know how to read, so I was forced back to the web interface. I did take the time to notice that data was arriving in those logs at about 20Mb/hour, which would translate to roughly 125 work days to fill the 20Gb /var/ partition. The guy who deals with the system the most says that sounds about right, he rotates the logs of the box quite frequently. Something Symantec had expressed an interest in was the number of httpd processes running - apparently around 500. The bulk of the traffic they proxy is web. I spent a lot of time combing through the log, looking both at "normal" times and at the time when it apparently spiked and choked. I couldn't see anything that looked suspicious - no significant increase in volume, no unusual transactions. But it's a very dense log and I may have missed something. At this point the only things I can think of are flaky hardware (HD, NIC, disk controller, memory ...) or high load. Neither seems likely, and both are hard to track (this is a live device with no backup). Any suggestions would be appreciated. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 02:22:00 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:22:00 -0500 Subject: Phisher of the Week In-Reply-To: <1793.99.232.68.237.1200432503.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <1793.99.232.68.237.1200432503.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <478ebbca.1139400a.7db6.fffffc32@mx.google.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of > phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org > Sent: Tuesday 15 January 2008 16:28 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Phisher of the Week > > > I Dream of you http://89.76.176.26/ > > ============================================= > > Is this what romance has come to? People pining for others..in octets? > > People furtively handing off at parties a scrap of paper with > their..internet address in octal? > > What's next, romantic poetry in an ascii-coded memory dump? Tried that. Didn't work so well. The OO approach is much better. On the topic: Diesel Sweeties likens Linux to leather today: http://www.dieselsweeties.com/archive/1928 -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 02:37:21 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:37:21 -0500 Subject: OT: legal obligations In-Reply-To: <478E5A9C.8080303-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <478E5A9C.8080303@rogers.com> Message-ID: <478ebf62.051e400a.7b19.110b@mx.google.com> Standard disclaimer for this topic: I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, anything written below is to be taken only at face value, blah, blah blah... > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of James > Knott > Sent: Wednesday 16 January 2008 14:27 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: legal obligations > > I seem to recall a case not to long ago, about such stuff found on a > computer in for repair. IIRC, the point was made that such stuff should > be reported. Also, I have a friend who's a psychologist who is supposed > to report to police, a patient she considers a significant risk to > others, despite privacy concerns. They same thing applies to physicians > or eye doctors, who have a patient that's no longer capable of driving > safely. They are required, by law, to report that person. > > Bottom line, privacy rules, unless it will result in danger to others. A) Unless you've signed an agreement of some sort, you're not under any obligation for privacy. Most of the privacy laws that I'm aware of do not cover this situation. Sure, posting someone's HDD on the 'net without permission may get you in some hot water, but I'm not aware of any precedent for reporting anything to the police, or appropriate authorities. B) Any contract or legal obligation, including professional ones, is superseded by a duty to the public. Remember: any contract that violates the law is not a legal contract. My answer? If you see something that you really think could be illegal, at least look into it. Stall if you have to, and probably get a lawyer, but don't let it slide. -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 02:41:31 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:41:31 -0500 Subject: OT: legal obligations In-Reply-To: <478E60D9.9020300-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <478E60D9.9020300@primus.ca> Message-ID: <478ec05d.0d2b400a.4855.0e44@mx.google.com> Standard disclaimer for this topic: I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, anything written below is to be taken only at face value, blah, blah blah... > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of George > Nicol > Sent: Wednesday 16 January 2008 14:54 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: legal obligations > > John McGregor wrote: > > > wondering what my, and other computer techs', obligations are if > > we find illegal content when doing a similar search? Thoughts? > > 1) Calm down and MYOB. > 2) Take an Ethical Hacker course. > 3) Do not leap to conclusions. > 4) For legal advice, consult a lawyer. > > Do you think a child pornographer would seek your help? People have done dumber things. Some people think "the recycling bin is forever". Pictures in poor taste, I'd agree with you. Something obviously illegal? "MYOB" just doesn't apply. > Do you understand the consequences of misreporting this? Now that's just fearmongering. What are you implying? Do you know of any precedents? Or are you just trying to shut someone up from doing the right thing in a bad situation? -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 02:45:49 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:45:49 -0500 Subject: OT: legal obligations In-Reply-To: <478E69ED.2000303-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <478E69ED.2000303@telly.org> Message-ID: <478ec15f.0c39400a.641b.0f2a@mx.google.com> Standard disclaimer for this topic: I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, anything written below is to be taken only at face value, blah, blah blah... > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Evan > Leibovitch > Sent: Wednesday 16 January 2008 15:33 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: legal obligations > > The timing of this is interesting, considering that a precedent was set > recently on this issue. A school principal and VP were recently charged > for being aware of a sexual assault of a student in their school and not > reporting it. > > http://www.thestar.com/article/291584 > > This is the first time, apparently, that criminal charges have been laid > for failing to report. Yes, but school officials have a duty to the public, and in particular their students. A "duty of care" is the underpinning of negligence. IIRC (and IANAL) negligence requires: 1) A duty of care 2) Some "reasonable standard" 3) Proof that the individual in question acted in a way that a "reasonable practitioner" in the same role would have. In other words, the courts will weigh the role in society against the acts. An engineer is expected to do certain technical things that a teacher wouldn't, but a teacher is responsible for other things etc. -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 02:53:19 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:53:19 -0500 Subject: OT: legal obligations In-Reply-To: <20080116202509.8c70a744.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080116202509.8c70a744.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <478ec321.0f1f400a.023b.0a74@mx.google.com> Standard disclaimer for this topic: I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, anything written below is to be taken only at face value, blah, blah blah... > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Howard > Gibson > Sent: Wednesday 16 January 2008 20:25 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: legal obligations > > John, > > Two thoughts. > > Perhaps we should get lawyers to repair our computers. Lawyer client > communications are confidential. As a computer repair guy, you are not > licensed or certified, as far as I know. You have no legal status as far > as communications with your customer are concerned. What happens when you > call a plumber, and he sees the posters in your bathroom? As has already been pointed out, even lawyers have a duty to the public if they are aware of a crime yet to be committed. > The opposite case is interesting too. When I take my computer in for > service, what are the repair guy's obligations to me when he finds > interesting stuff on my computer? It might not be kiddieporn, but it can > be copyright. Perhaps I did not think through the implications of a non- > disclosure agreement I signed. Is there any reason a minimum wage > technician should not pass my emails from Paris Hilton on the National > Enquirer? How about online passwords stored as cookies in plain text? That's definitely a gray area. To the best of my knowledge, privacy laws in Ontario don't currently cover commercial transactions like these. Even the privacy laws in other Provinces only cover "personal information" collected by companies, not data handed by HDD or other means. That said, I'm also not sure about the two more obvious situations: 1) If you don't report something that you've seen and know to be illegal. If you're not a professional (accountant, lawyer, doctor, engineer etc.), is there a duty to the public? 2) If you report something that isn't really there, are you liable? I have a hunch that the answer is "no... but you don't want to go there", but I can't say that for sure. -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 02:59:24 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:59:24 -0500 Subject: OT: legal obligations In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0801161722l2f9832fo4c04e156a8d62b6f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801161722l2f9832fo4c04e156a8d62b6f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478ec48e.061d400a.7fb7.0f53@mx.google.com> Standard disclaimer for this topic: I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, anything written below is to be taken only at face value, blah, blah blah... > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Tyler > Aviss > Sent: Wednesday 16 January 2008 20:23 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: legal obligations > > To add to that.... how about your collection of pirated music and/or > mp3's? > How many people *don't* have that on their PC? [KMS] Now that's an easy one to answer: how can you prove it's pirated? I have a stack of original CD's in the same room as my PC's. If I hand you the PC with my music, I still have a license for those songs. The moment you copy them to your HDD *you* have violated copyright laws, not me. This is why CRIA hasn't been as lawsuit happy as the RIAA: the laws in Canada (not to mention the courts, but that's another matter) aren't as amenable to record companies badgering individuals. Because of the "library model", putting all of my songs on PC and leaving it open to everyone else to see is not illegal. You can look at the songs if you want. But if you copy them to your HDD, then you've just done the same thing as photocopying a copyrighted work you borrowed from your local library, and that's contrary to Canadian copyright law. To the best of my knowledge, that's how it works. At least until the Harper government decides what's "best for all of us". -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 03:08:47 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:08:47 -0500 Subject: Domain registration and hosting In-Reply-To: <1f13df280801160624x308f0240ufe5f026e1a6b4e6c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280801160624x308f0240ufe5f026e1a6b4e6c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478ec6c0.1138400a.6b8f.ffffa776@mx.google.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Giles Orr > Sent: Wednesday 16 January 2008 09:25 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Domain registration and hosting > > Hosting providers come and go. I've been fortunate, the one I started > with five years ago is still good. But I own the domains myself, and > it's reassuring to know I have that control. Particularly if your hosting provider runs into technical/legal/financial trouble. Hosting is a service. The domain is your identity, don't let anyone else own that. -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 03:19:19 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:19:19 -0500 Subject: Domain registration and hosting In-Reply-To: <6a394d3b0801150954lf2e082fq60da1fdc21e8b193-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <6a394d3b0801150954lf2e082fq60da1fdc21e8b193@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478ec939.1d80400a.73c3.145b@mx.google.com> _______________________________________ From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of alorane Sent: Tuesday 15 January 2008 12:54 To: List, TLUG Subject: [TLUG]: Domain registration and hosting Hi ? The Non-Profit Group I am belonging to wants to build a website. Any suggestions for cheap and reliable Domain registration and hosting? I looked at VPSLink as they support Ubuntu and charge only $6.99 for hosting but they don't do the Domain registration. ? [KMS] The domain registration topic has been beaten to death. As for hosting, that depends entirely on your requirements. It doesn't really matter whether they run Ubuntu, Debian, or anything else, so long as they support the apps you need and provide the resource levels to match. Most will support the "typical" php/mysql setup (see previous thread on web tools for a lot more detail). Beware the trap of the lowest bidder. I got sucked into Bluehost for a while, and then my two most important sites failed and they shutdown my account. Not good. Try and find someone with at least some reputation for what you're doing, and ask them about the *specific* apps you want to use. Good luck! -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 03:22:21 2008 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:22:21 -0500 Subject: Debian Sid and Grub In-Reply-To: <200801151509.21470.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200801151509.21470.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <478ec9ef.0e38400a.2ebf.233c@mx.google.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Merv > Curley > Sent: Tuesday 15 January 2008 15:09 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Debian Sid and Grub > > On Tuesday 15 January 2008 11:54, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 11:44:16AM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > > > I am about to set up a new drive and thought I might use LVM for it. > > > > > > From what I see, ver 0.97 should be able to boot from anything in the > > > first VG. So I no longer need small /boot partitions. > > > > > > Is that right? > > > > Ehm I don't think so. I have never seen any mention of LVM support in > > GRUB 0.97. It's in legacy maintainance mode only. All new stuff goes > > in GRUB2 only. > > > I installed the grub-doc pkg for ver .97 this AM and perhaps you could > check > it and see if you interpret it the way I did. Maybe I'll do a temp LVM > setup > using the whole disk and see if it seems to work. I'd ruther trust you > tho, ;-) I've always looked at the /boot partition as more of a safety net. If something really screwy happens, I'll at least be able to use that start the system and perhaps do some repairs. It's not a huge difference, but sometimes it's the little things that get you through a tough spot. -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 15:28:08 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:28:08 -0500 Subject: Debian Sid and Grub In-Reply-To: <200801151509.21470.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200801151144.17088.mervc@eol.ca> <20080115165422.GX2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200801151509.21470.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20080117152808.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 03:09:21PM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > I installed the grub-doc pkg for ver .97 this AM and perhaps you could check > it and see if you interpret it the way I did. Maybe I'll do a temp LVM setup > using the whole disk and see if it seems to work. I'd ruther trust you > tho, ;-) Well I found a web page that explicitly said that LVM support was added to Grub in version 1.95 which is the development for GRUB2. 0.97 is certainly not 1.95. A small /boot is no big deal though (200MB is what I tend to suggest), and everything you actually really use will be on LVM. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 15:29:56 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:29:56 -0500 Subject: Debian Sid and Grub In-Reply-To: <200801151638.45350.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200801151144.17088.mervc@eol.ca> <20080115165422.GX2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200801151638.45350.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20080117152956.GA2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 04:38:44PM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > OOps - short memory these days > > In my first reply, I said grub-doc was the place, no it was the grub wiki > > grub.enbug.org/LVMandRAID > > Sorry Lennart and anyone else... Well the first line says: "GRUB has support for LVM and RAID since version 1.95." So do you think that means 0.97 has support for LVM and RAID? 0.97 does work for raid1 since raid1 can simply ignore one device when booting. Support for soft raid5 and 6 would be nifty though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 15:31:50 2008 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:31:50 -0500 Subject: Debian Sid and Grub In-Reply-To: <478ec9ef.0e38400a.2ebf.233c-ATjtLOhZ0NVl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> References: <478ec9ef.0e38400a.2ebf.233c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <200801171031.50449.mervc@eol.ca> On Wednesday 16 January 2008 22:22, Kareem Shehata wrote: > > I've always looked at the /boot partition as more of a safety net. If > something really screwy happens, I'll at least be able to use that start > the system and perhaps do some repairs. It's not a huge difference, but > sometimes it's the little things that get you through a tough spot. > Advice taken. I have put a couple of small partitions for /boot at the head of the disk. Thanks for the advice to you both. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Sid Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.7 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 15:37:19 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:37:19 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <478D2D32.5000700-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4788EC82.1010909@chrisaitken.net> <20080114150939.GU2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <478D2D32.5000700@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080117153719.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 05:01:22PM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > I tried disabling the onboard card in the BIOS - didn't affect much - > alsamixer stills sees the Intel card. I did notice a Creative Labs card > in the PCI Devices section od f the BIOS though. Well it turns out that even after about 2 years of argueing and complaining about it, no one made the package. Apparently it is going into the next release. In the mean time the ubuntustudio people packaged it, and someone is hosting the package as well. So for gutsy you can add this to your sources.list and then get alsa-firmware: deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/tsmithe/ubuntu gutsy multiverse For more options and details see this bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/147320 -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 15:41:23 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:41:23 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080116191049.31384.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080109214943.10865.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080109224638.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080110002535.13868.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080110015152.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4786B0CD.7060800@chrisaitken.net> <32f6a8880801101623y2dd23c44l50a1beb7c8a443db@mail.gmail.com> <20080111141826.GO2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080111231157.22527.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080114145833.GR2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080116191049.31384.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080117154123.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 16, 2008 at 02:10:49PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > Okay, I tried to do that and was advised to other stuff first: > > devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install openssh-server > [sudo] password for devon: > E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'dpkg --configure -a' to > correct the problem. > devon at devon:~$ sudo dpkg --configure -a > Setting up java-common (0.26ubuntu1) ... > > Setting up odbcinst1debian1 (2.2.11-16) ... > > Setting up unixodbc (2.2.11-16) ... > > Setting up gcc-3.3-base (1:3.3.6-15ubuntu2) ... > Setting up libstdc++5 (1:3.3.6-15ubuntu2) ... > > Processing triggers for libc6 ... > ldconfig deferred processing now taking place > devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install openssh-server > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree > Reading state information... Done > You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these: > The following packages have unmet dependencies: > openssh-server: Depends: openssh-client (= 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1) but > 1:4.6p1-5build1 is to be installed > sun-java6-jre: Depends: sun-java6-bin (= 6-03-0ubuntu2) but it is not going > to be installed or > ia32-sun-java6-bin (= 6-03-0ubuntu2) but it is not > installable > E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or > specify a solution). > devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get -f install > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree > Reading state information... Done > Correcting dependencies... Done > The following extra packages will be installed: > sun-java6-bin sun-java6-jre > Suggested packages: > binfmt-support sun-java6-plugin ia32-sun-java6-plugin sun-java6-fonts > Recommended packages: > gsfonts-x11 > The following NEW packages will be installed: > sun-java6-bin > The following packages will be upgraded: > sun-java6-jre > 1 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 122 not upgraded. > 1 not fully installed or removed. > Need to get 0B/32.7MB of archives. > After unpacking, 93.6MB of additional disk space will be used. > Do you want to continue [Y/n]? Y > Preconfiguring packages ... > (Reading database ... > dpkg: serious warning: files list file for package `sun-java6-jre' missing, > assuming package has no files currently installed. > 105054 files and directories currently installed.) > Unpacking sun-java6-bin (from .../sun-java6-bin_6-03-0ubuntu2_i386.deb) ... > Preparing to replace sun-java6-jre 6-03-0ubuntu2 (using > .../sun-java6-jre_6-03-0ubuntu2_all.deb) ... > sun-dlj-v1-1 license has already been accepted > Unpacking replacement sun-java6-jre ... > Setting up sun-java6-bin (6-03-0ubuntu2) ... > No theme index file in '/usr/share/icons/sun-java6.png'. > If you really want to create an icon cache here, use --ignore-theme-index. > > Setting up sun-java6-jre (6-03-0ubuntu2) ... > > devon at devon:~$ sudo apt-get install openssh-server > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree > Reading state information... Done > The following extra packages will be installed: > openssh-client > Suggested packages: > libpam-ssh keychain rssh molly-guard > The following NEW packages will be installed: > openssh-server > The following packages will be upgraded: > openssh-client > 1 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 121 not upgraded. > Need to get 904kB of archives. > After unpacking, 655kB of additional disk space will be used. > Do you want to continue [Y/n]? Y > Get:1 http://security.ubuntu.com gutsy-security/main openssh-client > 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 [656kB] > Get:2 http://security.ubuntu.com gutsy-security/main openssh-server > 1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1 [247kB] > Fetched 904kB in 20s (43.1kB/s) > Preconfiguring packages ... > (Reading database ... 105962 files and directories currently installed.) > Preparing to replace openssh-client 1:4.6p1-5build1 (using > .../openssh-client_1%3a4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1_i386.deb) ... > Unpacking replacement openssh-client ... > Selecting previously deselected package openssh-server. > Unpacking openssh-server (from > .../openssh-server_1%3a4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1_i386.deb) ... > Setting up openssh-client (1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1) ... > > Setting up openssh-server (1:4.6p1-5ubuntu0.1) ... > Creating SSH2 RSA key; this may take some time ... > Creating SSH2 DSA key; this may take some time ... > * Restarting OpenBSD Secure Shell server sshd > [ OK ] > > After all that I still can't use scp: > > devon at devon:~$ sudo scp /home/devon/darepromise.odt > 192.168.0.2:/home/chris/Desktop > ssh: connect to host 192.168.0.2 port 22: Connection refused > lost connection > > I can ping that computer though: > devon at devon:~$ ping 192.168.0.2 > PING 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2) 56(84) bytes of data. > 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.198 ms > 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.187 ms > 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.185 ms > 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=0.181 ms > 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=0.182 ms > 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=6 ttl=64 time=0.182 ms > ^C64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=7 ttl=64 time=0.188 ms > 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=8 ttl=64 time=0.182 ms > 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=9 ttl=64 time=0.184 ms > 64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=10 ttl=64 time=0.187 ms > > --- 192.168.0.2 ping statistics --- > 10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 8999ms > rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.181/0.185/0.198/0.015 ms > devon at devon:~$ You just installed the ssh server on devon, but you tried to scp something to 192.168.0.2. Is it running an ssh server? The local side needs the client, the remote the server. I tend to install both everywhere so that all directions work. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 15:49:40 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:49:40 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801161438s62a049eaj8a84668a8facc3ba-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080109224638.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080110002535.13868.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080110015152.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4786B0CD.7060800@chrisaitken.net> <32f6a8880801101623y2dd23c44l50a1beb7c8a443db@mail.gmail.com> <20080111141826.GO2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080111231157.22527.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080114145833.GR2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080116191049.31384.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <32f6a8880801161438s62a049eaj8a84668a8facc3ba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080117154941.4777.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Dave Germiquet writes: > Hi, > > Do you have SSH installed on this system: > > 192.168.0.2 I don't know. I can scp to it from another box, so I assumed that it does. > > Have you tried sshing into the 192.168.0.2 without a problem? I've never actually used the ssh command - I think I've only ever had to install it to support scp. > > Try this and see if it succeeds: > > ssh -l 192.168.0.2 devon at devon:~$ ssh -l chris 192.168.0.2 ssh: connect to host 192.168.0.2 port 22: No route to host devon at devon:~$ sudo ssh -l chris 192.168.0.2 [sudo] password for devon: ssh: connect to host 192.168.0.2 port 22: No route to host devon at devon:~$ > It says the connection refused so im thinking the openssh server is not running. Hmmm, maybe not. I'll check when I'm at the other computer. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 18:03:30 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:03:30 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801161441m5f84f994o622f7966f6ad95f9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <20080110002535.13868.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080110015152.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4786B0CD.7060800@chrisaitken.net> <32f6a8880801101623y2dd23c44l50a1beb7c8a443db@mail.gmail.com> <20080111141826.GO2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080111231157.22527.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080114145833.GR2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080116191049.31384.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <32f6a8880801161438s62a049eaj8a84668a8facc3ba@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880801161441m5f84f994o622f7966f6ad95f9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478F9872.6020401@chrisaitken.net> Dave Germiquet wrote: > Try running these commands on your 192.168.0.2: > > # netstat -ant | grep "22" > > You can also run these commands to verify ssh is running: > > # ps -ef | grep ssh > chris at cpc:~$ netstat -ant | grep "22" chris at cpc:~$ sudo netstat -ant | grep "22" [sudo] password for chris: chris at cpc:~$ /bin/netstat -ant | grep "22" chris at cpc:~$ sudo /bin/netstat -ant | grep "22" chris at cpc:~$ chris at cpc:~$ ps -ef | grep ssh chris 5250 5215 0 12:40 ? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/ssh-agent x-session-manager chris 5853 5742 0 12:59 pts/1 00:00:00 grep ssh chris at cpc:~$ Chris > You may need to edit the /etc/ssh/sshd_config to your preferences. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 20:28:41 2008 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:28:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Mindless self promotion... Free Software Magazine Message-ID: <640273.32437.qm@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Just to note, four more articles by me are now out in issue 21 of "Free Software Magazine" (http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/issues/issue_021), namely: - Interview with Bob Young - Ex-CEO of Red Hat, current owner of the Hamilton Tiger-Cats - Interview with Richard M. Stallman - President Free Software Foundation. - Interview with Eric S. Raymond - Programmer and author. - Making the Linux KDE desktop look pretty. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 21:25:26 2008 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:25:26 -0500 Subject: OT: legal obligations In-Reply-To: <478E5009.20904-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <478E5009.20904@rogers.com> Message-ID: <478FC7C6.9000306@buynet.com> > This got me to > wondering what my, and other computer techs', obligations are if we find > illegal content when doing a similar search? Thoughts? A few years ago, over dinner, I was talking with a friend who owned a (hard disk) data recovery company about content that might be porn, 3rd party IP or even terrorism related that his techs might recover or see. I suggested that he might require each customer, in whatever engagement contract normally used, to disclose if there is or might be this type of content on the drive. If "yes" then he could refuse to recover the data, if "no" then he might have reason to delete the file or report the find. Or he could state in the contract a (new) company policy that such files would not be recovered and maybe reported. I don't know what changes may have been made here since he sold his company soon after. Hmmm, I wonder, if the file is not restored (i.e. not recovered from the faulty media and transferred to good media) does the bad content exist? I would think that if the file contents might be evidence of a crime then it should not be deleted. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 22:31:10 2008 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:31:10 -0500 Subject: Mindless self promotion... Free Software Magazine In-Reply-To: <640273.32437.qm-W5RQQfbthkOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <640273.32437.qm@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <478FD72E.5060209@ve3syb.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > - Making the Linux KDE desktop look pretty. That sounds a bit odd. The last time I looked at KDE it was already pretty compared to the GNOME desktop. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 01:20:03 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:20:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: shredding files on a flash drive Message-ID: I was using sneakernet to transfer confidential files. In particular, I put them on a "USB key" flash memory. That got me thinking. I would like to remove those files from the USB device. How can I do that? As I understand it, flash memory devices use "wear leveling". I think that this is done by always writing to a new physical flash block, leaving the old physical block fallow until its turn comes. This means that shred(1) won't do the job unless it is told to rewrite a great number of times, something that is quite hard on flash units. It isn't even clear that we could guess what that number would have to be. (It is likely that shred would also not work on a journalling file system.) Any recommendation? Perhaps one should never consider a flash device cleaned. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 04:55:23 2008 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 23:55:23 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080118045522.GD25071@adb.ca> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > That got me thinking. I would like to remove those files from the USB > device. How can I do that? As I understand it, flash memory devices > use "wear leveling". I think that this is done by always writing to a > new physical flash block, leaving the old physical block fallow until > its turn comes. > > This means that shred(1) won't do the job ... Quite likely yes, though there's a chance someone would have to interface to the underlying flash device and couldn't get at it through normal "undelete" utilities. I presume data-recovery services can do things that we normal folk can't. I won't assume there's only one implementation out there, or that they won't come out with more, so anything they *may* do is an issue, and one can't rely on a safe-delete process on one being safe on others. > Any recommendation? Perhaps one should never consider a flash device > cleaned. There's a good chance that if you fill the thing right up with some of /dev/urandom, it has to use all of its blocks for that and you ought to get a fair level of confidence that older deleted blocks are overwritten. Spare blocks (to replace bad ones) could still be an issue, especially if they're part of the wear-levelling rotation already. Always encrypting confidential information onto physical media would be a definite answer. Depending on the consequences of the data falling into the wrong hands, you may not ever be able to declassify media that's had secret or confidential information on it in the clear. I've heard that the Pentagon sends its broken hard drives to a nearby Army base for a date with some thermite, to melt them right down to slag. At a previous employer, our broken drives had a date with a cold chisel and a two-pound hammer to punch through the platters a time or two. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 05:17:41 2008 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:17:41 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <20080110211910.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801101338j6009b112tded149fe3984f544@mail.gmail.com> <1200037237.16048.9.camel@moonglow.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> <20080111145300.GB29416@adb.ca> <20080111155150.GP2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080112020704.GE29416@adb.ca> <20080114150222.GS2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080114170740.GJ29416@adb.ca> Message-ID: <20080118051741.GE25071@adb.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Jan 14, 2008 5:07 PM, Anthony de Boer wrote: > > One of the early firewall publications (the FWTK manual, if I recall) > > had a cartoon of a worried-looking sysadmin with the caption "I'm > > paranoid. But am I paranoid _enough_?" That's the sort of work I've > > done over the past number of years, with firewalling and host security > > and application robustness and storage redundancy/backups. (Is anyone > > hiring?!?) > > The fact that you may watch a wave of lines like the following go > across your screen is *NOT* paranoid action that helps security. > > gcc -O7 ${MOREFLAGDETERIORATA} -c some_file.c Oh heavens no, I don't sit staring spellbound at builds. Those are for running in the background while I catch up on mail or news or whatever else, or go for a coffee and maybe interact with a human being. > You may *imagine* that you are avoiding some security problems, but in > reality, you're not, not unless you are scrutinizing every bit of code > that gets compiled. > > It still is not enough even if you *are* scrutinizing the code. > > Ken Thompson documented this nicely in his famous paper: > http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html Yes, I read that quite a few years ago. Mostly I'm looking at the overview of how things work, delving into details here and there, and such. There's no way anyone is going to be able to read all of the code in a modern system. You have to prioritize your time, and cover what you can in the ongoing work to keep systems running properly on the Internet. Following the more useful security-related mailing lists is good for staying on top of the issues currently affecting people. I also find it useful to do belt-and-suspenders deployments, making sure I can point at more than one thing that ought not go wrong, each being in place in case the other gets broken. Rather than simply saying "this is well-written code" I still like to chroot, firewall, run it on a separate machine, or otherwise isolate it from the rest of my data. And a lot of times the Powers That Be mandate running something that doesn't have a stellar security record, and you have to do what you can to make it harder to break and to detect and contain the inevitable problem. Meanwhile, this Gentoo box I'm running for my home system is more like a Meccano set than the nicely-welded-together thing that a binary distro would be; it makes it easier to pull stuff apart and see what's underneath. I use it to evaluate things that look to be useful new technologies, trying to use my home net as a testbed for things I'd like to have some informed opinions about, and experience deploying. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 13:23:47 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 08:23:47 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 17, 2008 8:20 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Any recommendation? Perhaps one should never consider a flash device > cleaned. I'd think two things: 1. I'd rather have my data encrypted when on a flash device, so that it might resist attack even if the device fell into the wrong hands; 2. There seems to be more than enough nondeterminism as to data access that I'd never consider it truly "clean." A date with Mr Fireplace should be in the cards... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 17:51:23 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:51:23 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 08:20:03PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I was using sneakernet to transfer confidential files. In particular, > I put them on a "USB key" flash memory. > > That got me thinking. I would like to remove those files from the USB > device. How can I do that? As I understand it, flash memory devices > use "wear leveling". I think that this is done by always writing to a > new physical flash block, leaving the old physical block fallow until > its turn comes. > > This means that shred(1) won't do the job unless it is told to > rewrite a great number of times, something that is quite hard on flash > units. It isn't even clear that we could guess what that number would > have to be. > > (It is likely that shred would also not work on a journalling file > system.) > > Any recommendation? Perhaps one should never consider a flash device > cleaned. Well you could fill the device with a file (or multiple) containing all zeros. That would at least fill all the free space with data which you could then delete. That still leaves whatever percentage of spare blocks the device has as a potential place to still have valid data that you intended to delete, although I believe most if not all flash devices will erase the spare blocks whenever they are not in use since that way they are pre erased and ready for use when needed. flash memory has to be erased to all 1s before you can write to it (by changing some of the bits to zeros), at least on the types of flash memory I have looked at. erase is done by block, and it would make sense to issue an erase on a block whenever it is no longer being used as a current block in the flash. So I believe this means that if you will the flash after deleting your file, then every block will have been overwritten or erased. If your overwrite file happens to contain all 1s (0xFF) then it should even avoid causing excess writes to those blocks since you are not actually changing their contents away from the erased state. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 21:21:14 2008 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:21:14 -0500 Subject: OT: Rogers High Speed Ultra Light Now 600 kb/s Message-ID: <4791184A.8090204@utoronto.ca> It appears that Rogers High Speed Ultra Lite is now 600 kb/s downstream. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 21:35:55 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:35:55 -0500 Subject: OT: Rogers High Speed Ultra Light Now 600 kb/s In-Reply-To: <4791184A.8090204-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4791184A.8090204@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20080118213555.GF2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 04:21:14PM -0500, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > It appears that Rogers High Speed Ultra Lite is now 600 kb/s downstream. And how much do they charge for that compared to what a lot of ADSL providers charge for 5000kbps? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 21:36:59 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:36:59 -0500 Subject: Dell has APC SmartUPS 1500 on sale again today Message-ID: <20080118213659.GV2308@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> If anyone still doesn't have a UPS (no excuse really is there?), you can get the APC SmartUPS 1500 from Dell today for $199 (with free shipping, which counts for something on a 60lbs monster). I run my TV and mythtv and cablebox and other accessories of one so I never miss anything due to power failures. Regular price is around $500 or so most places (while Dell normally charges $700 and wants you to pay for shipping too). They also have a nice deal on an Antec 850W power supply if anyone likes those (and uses that much power) as well as on an Antec case (which has a door so I already hate it). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 21:55:00 2008 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:55:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: Dell has APC SmartUPS 1500 on sale again today In-Reply-To: <20080118213659.GV2308-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080118213659.GV2308@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > If anyone still doesn't have a UPS (no excuse really is there?), you > can get the APC SmartUPS 1500 from Dell today for $199 (with free > shipping, which counts for something on a 60lbs monster). do you have a link for that? i can't find it at dell.ca. thanks. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Home page: http://crashcourse.ca Fedora Cookbook: http://crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Fedora_Cookbook ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 21:58:57 2008 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:58:57 -0500 Subject: OT: Rogers High Speed Ultra Light Now 600 kb/s In-Reply-To: <20080118213555.GF2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4791184A.8090204@utoronto.ca> <20080118213555.GF2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <47912121.60905@utoronto.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > And how much do they charge for that compared to what a lot of ADSL > providers charge for 5000kbps? My father pays $25 + tax. Yeah, the price per unit of bandwidth speed would be cheaper than a lot of ADSL providers, but I don't think I could get a monthly service that was cheaper than $25 before tax. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 22:04:35 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:04:35 -0800 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <20080118175123.GD2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: If you formatted it using ext3, then check out chattr's 's' option... -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 22:07:16 2008 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:07:16 -0500 Subject: OT: Rogers High Speed Ultra Light Now 600 kb/s In-Reply-To: <20080118213555.GF2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4791184A.8090204@utoronto.ca> <20080118213555.GF2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <47912314.20601@utoronto.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > And how much do they charge for that compared to what a lot of ADSL > providers charge for 5000kbps? Oops, Acanac. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 22:20:28 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:20:28 -0500 Subject: Dell has APC SmartUPS 1500 on sale again today In-Reply-To: References: <20080118213659.GV2308@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080118222028.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 04:55:00PM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > If anyone still doesn't have a UPS (no excuse really is there?), you > > can get the APC SmartUPS 1500 from Dell today for $199 (with free > > shipping, which counts for something on a 60lbs monster). > > do you have a link for that? i can't find it at dell.ca. thanks. Well, main page, home and small business, then 10 days of deals on the flash thingy. Or you could just go here: http://www1.ca.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/days_of_deals?c=ca&cs=cadhs1&l=en&s=dhs&dgc=AF&cid=3881&lid=77903 They also have a nifty little adapter that turns any sata, 2.5" IDE or 3.5" IDE disk into a USB2 storage device (with a power brick to power the disk of course) on the same page for $25. Could be very handy to recover data of a drive without having to shut down your machine to install the disk in it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 22:22:00 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:22:00 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080118222200.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 02:04:35PM -0800, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > If you formatted it using ext3, then check out chattr's 's' option... The file system has no clue and no say in how things are done under the hood by a flash based device. Blocks get remapped all the time as part of wear leveling and hence spare blocks are rotated into use when other blocks are overwritten. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 23:09:15 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:09:15 -0800 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <20080118222200.GH2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080118222200.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Jan 18, 2008 2:22 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > The file system has no clue and no say in how things are done under the > hood by a flash based device. Blocks get remapped all the time as part > of wear leveling and hence spare blocks are rotated into use when other > blocks are overwritten. So are you saying that the secure overwrite will not happen? Well, then dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda sounds like a good option then :-) -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 23:26:08 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 18:26:08 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080118222200.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080118232608.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 03:09:15PM -0800, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > On Jan 18, 2008 2:22 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > The file system has no clue and no say in how things are done under the > > hood by a flash based device. Blocks get remapped all the time as part > > of wear leveling and hence spare blocks are rotated into use when other > > blocks are overwritten. > > So are you saying that the secure overwrite will not happen? Well, > then dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda sounds like a good option then :-) Writing 0xFF is preferable to avoid unnecesary wear (and should be faster too if the flash controller has some brains which it probably doesn't). And the dd still only works assuming all spare blocks are always erased when they become free, which for performance reasons would be the right thing to do (that way the blocks are ready for writes when needed rather than having to wait for an erase before write later on). But you have no way to know for sure how the flash controller does things. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 23:45:58 2008 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 18:45:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <20080118232608.GI2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080118222200.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080118232608.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 03:09:15PM -0800, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > > On Jan 18, 2008 2:22 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > The file system has no clue and no say in how things are done under the > > > hood by a flash based device. Blocks get remapped all the time as part > > > of wear leveling and hence spare blocks are rotated into use when other > > > blocks are overwritten. > > > > So are you saying that the secure overwrite will not happen? Well, > > then dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda sounds like a good option then :-) > > Writing 0xFF is preferable to avoid unnecesary wear (and should be > faster too if the flash controller has some brains which it probably > doesn't). > > And the dd still only works assuming all spare blocks are always > erased when they become free, which for performance reasons would be > the right thing to do (that way the blocks are ready for writes when > needed rather than having to wait for an erase before write later > on). But you have no way to know for sure how the flash controller > does things. if you're going to start messing around with flash, you might want to install the "mtd-utils" package on your system. if you've never worked with flash filesystems, prepare to re-learn how to do basic operations, like clearing the raw filesystem. you'll be working with commands like flash_erase and flash_eraseall. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Home page: http://crashcourse.ca Fedora Cookbook: http://crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Fedora_Cookbook ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 02:36:43 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:36:43 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <478F9872.6020401-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <4786B0CD.7060800@chrisaitken.net> <32f6a8880801101623y2dd23c44l50a1beb7c8a443db@mail.gmail.com> <20080111141826.GO2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080111231157.22527.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080114145833.GR2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080116191049.31384.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <32f6a8880801161438s62a049eaj8a84668a8facc3ba@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880801161441m5f84f994o622f7966f6ad95f9@mail.gmail.com> <478F9872.6020401@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <32f6a8880801181836u4ae28057mc21f3fb2527d7a40@mail.gmail.com> Hey Chris, So it looks like there is no open ssh server on there :) So you'll have to add it there too... things should work once thats done :) You may have to allow root if your using the root account. You may have to use trust certificates so you don't have to enter a password :P TTYL On Jan 17, 2008 1:03 PM, Christopher Aitken wrote: > Dave Germiquet wrote: > > Try running these commands on your 192.168.0.2: > > > > # netstat -ant | grep "22" > > > > You can also run these commands to verify ssh is running: > > > > # ps -ef | grep ssh > > > chris at cpc:~$ netstat -ant | grep "22" > chris at cpc:~$ sudo netstat -ant | grep "22" > [sudo] password for chris: > chris at cpc:~$ /bin/netstat -ant | grep "22" > chris at cpc:~$ sudo /bin/netstat -ant | grep "22" > chris at cpc:~$ > chris at cpc:~$ ps -ef | grep ssh > chris 5250 5215 0 12:40 ? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/ssh-agent > x-session-manager > chris 5853 5742 0 12:59 pts/1 00:00:00 grep ssh > chris at cpc:~$ > > Chris > > > You may need to edit the /etc/ssh/sshd_config to your preferences. > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 02:56:07 2008 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:56:07 -0500 Subject: OT (Windows): SD Card reader on Gateway Laptop Message-ID: <1200711368.7858.7.camel@aragorn> Hello This is labelled off-topic, since this is a Windows question, and I need some help. My Gateway laptop, about 1.5 years old, a wireless tablet/notebook combo, has a slot for an SD card at the front of the unit. While it doesn't work in Linux, it also doesn't work in Windows. I thought that Windows would auto-detect the device, but it does not. There is no bios setting for this, and the forums I've visited have stated that there was a problem, but I had no satisfactory answer as of yet. OTOH, there is plenty of stuff regarding Linux which I am going to try out, which is why I am not asking about Linux. If anyone knows anything about these Gateway laptops and had dealt with the issue, please reply if you can. Thanks. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 03:58:30 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:58:30 -0500 Subject: OT (Windows): SD Card reader on Gateway Laptop Message-ID: <47917566.1060809@rogers.com> I had to find the driver for a card reader in a Gateway ML6228 laptop last Dec. (the client had borked an upgrade to XP Pro). Ricoh makes the card readers for Gateway, so I suspect that the download from Gateway covers all models of the reader. Here's the link: http://support.gateway.com/support/drivers/search.asp?ref=step&st=browse&platform=10022&model=11274&os=10406&type=10515 John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 04:04:38 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 23:04:38 -0500 Subject: Apologies for html message Message-ID: <479176D6.5070609@rogers.com> Sorry folks, I just upgraded to Mepis 7 and it didn't occur to me that this new version of Thunderbird would send in HTML by default. It won't happen again. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 05:03:52 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 00:03:52 -0500 Subject: TrueType Fonts in Debian Message-ID: <20080119050352.GA16607@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I have an interesting problem - I am generally happy with the fonts I see, but I need to install a TrueType font on a Debian testing machine, and I can't seem to figure it out. I put the TTF file in /usr/share/fonts/truetype, and I see it when I run this: fslsfonts -server unix/:7101 but not when I run this: xlsfonts I was following this page, but it is old, and perhaps not appropriate: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/TT-Debian-3.html#ss3.2 Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 07:06:00 2008 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 02:06:00 -0500 Subject: Apologies for html message In-Reply-To: <479176D6.5070609-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <479176D6.5070609@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4791A158.4060603@primus.ca> John McGregor wrote: > Sorry folks, I just upgraded to Mepis 7 and it didn't occur to me > that this new version of Thunderbird would send in HTML by default. > It won't happen again. No problem, really. OTOH, what is actually annoying is that every time you reply to a thread, your reply starts a new thread (is posted outside the original thread). I guess you don't thread TLUG messages and therefore don't realize this is happening. We both use Tbird but somehow with different results. This reply from me will thread correctly. Notice the subject line above: "Re: [TLUG]: Apologies for html message" The result will be a post threaded below your "Apologies" email. Tbird made that happen without any fiddling on my part. All I do is: display the post I want to reply to ->- hit "Reply" ->- edit the original message ->- bottom post what I have to say ->- and hit "Send". Pretty simple, really. Tbird does all the heavy lifting. Now look at the subject line of your reply to Paul King's recent post: "[TLUG]: re:OT (Windows): SD Card reader on Gateway Laptop" (Notice the position of your "re:" versus my "Re:") The result was a new thread. That happened because you munged the subject line. Please stop adding "re:" to the subject when you reply. It is not necessary and causes problems for those (most of us) who have threading turned on so that conversations on a given topic are separated and thus easier to follow. You may also find it advantageous to turn on threading in your client. Thanks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 15:30:21 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 10:30:21 -0500 Subject: Apologies for html message In-Reply-To: <4791A158.4060603-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <479176D6.5070609@rogers.com> <4791A158.4060603@primus.ca> Message-ID: <4792178D.2030008@rogers.com> George Nicol wrote: > OTOH, what is actually annoying is that every time you reply to a > thread, your reply starts a new thread (is posted outside the original > thread). I guess you don't thread TLUG messages and therefore don't > realize this is happening. We both use Tbird but somehow with different > results. > > This reply from me will thread correctly. Notice the subject line above: > "Re: [TLUG]: Apologies for html message" > The result will be a post threaded below your "Apologies" email. > > Tbird made that happen without any fiddling on my part. All I do is: > display the post I want to reply to ->- hit "Reply" ->- edit the > original message ->- bottom post what I have to say ->- and hit "Send". > > Pretty simple, really. Tbird does all the heavy lifting. > > Now look at the subject line of your reply to Paul King's recent post: > "[TLUG]: re:OT (Windows): SD Card reader on Gateway Laptop" > (Notice the position of your "re:" versus my "Re:") The result was a > new thread. That happened because you munged the subject line. > > Please stop adding "re:" to the subject when you reply. It is not > necessary and causes problems for those (most of us) who have > threading turned on so that conversations on a given topic are > separated and thus easier to follow. You may also find it > advantageous to turn on threading in your client. > I didn't realize that I was causing a problem for some and I will change. What would help future subscribers (and those of us who need a refresher) to the list would be for the posting guidelines to be posted on the GTALug wiki. I just checked and there is nothing there ( not even the long standing requirement for plain text replies) other than the address where to sign up. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 16:11:41 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 11:11:41 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20071211190759.GH2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <475E84AE.200@chrisaitken.net> <475EA3D0.9000003@chrisaitken.net> <475EA89C.4060807@chrisaitken.net> <20071211160301.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211161308.9490.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211190759.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4792213D.6010008@chrisaitken.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 01:58:48PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> Interesting that on another machine (ubuntu as well) the entire contents of >> /etc/network/interfaces is, >> >> auto lo >> iface lo inet loopback >> >> It doesn't have an entry for an Internet connection at all - yet I have >> Internet connectivity. It makes you wonder if this file is being referred >> to at all (for Internet, anyway). >> > > It probably uses network manager along with udev and simply runs dhcp by > default on any interface that doesn't have a configuration. > > >> Well, my router documentation instructed that the gateway (router address) >> is 192.1.68.0.1 >> > > Sure, IF that router is your internet connection. If it is not, then > that router isn't really the router. I have run a wireless router in > the past with nothing connected to the WAN port, and just connected the > machines to the switch ports and then used one of those machines as the > gateway with the internet connection attached directly to it. > > >> Okay, thanks. Now I have to configure a third computer with local address >> so it can print to the printer at another machine. Based on my >> understanding of your instructions, can I add these lines to it's >> /etc/network/interfaces file?: >> >> iface eth1 inet static >> address 192.168.0.4 >> netmask 255.255.255.0 >> > > Well that ought to work. Assuming it is a debian like system that is. > > You can have either: > > internet --- eth1 [PC working as gateaway] eth0 --- switch/wifi AP/router --- other machines > in which case eth1 would run dhcp or pppoe or whatever the connection > needs, and either the switch/router runs dhcp but configured to use the > eth0 address as gateway, or you disable dhcp server on the switch/router > and run it on the gateway PC instead (which is what I have done) and > let it assign the eth0 as gateway to the local dhcp clients. In your > case it actually sounds a bit like you aren't using dhcp at all on your > switch/router and should just be pointing everybody with static IPs at > the IP of the machine with the internet connection. > > other option: > internet --- router --- all other machines > In this case everybody can just run dhcp and use whatever the router > tells them to use as gateway. > > So which are you doing? > Internet (cable modem) --- router --- all other machines The reason I keep harping on the little gui network configurator ('neat') is not because I'm looking for pity and want a nice little gui network configurator to use in ubuntu (okay I /would/ like such an app (but not the pity)). I'm just trying to let you guys know that what I was doing on previous installations (successfully for years) was simply this: "ppc" (192.168.0.3 for local stuff like scp and printing; dhcp-asigned address for Internet) - - - internet (cable modem) --- router --- "cpc" (192.168.0.2 for local stuff like scp and printing; dhcp-asigned address for Internet) - - - "dpc" (192.168.0.4 for local stuff like scp and printing; dhcp-asigned address for Internet) I'll use "ppc" as an example since it is the last fedora box (with the 'neat' app) in the house. In 'neat' I simply click on the Ethernet Device eth0 and click 'Add' to add a new "Ethernet Device" which is then named eth0:1. To that device I assign "Static Address" 192.168.0.3/24. The eth0 Device is set to "Automatically obtain IP address settings via DHCP". I do not understand IP anywhere near as well as you. I do, however, humbly insist that the above works (for me) very well. I simply have not been able to do this on the ubuntu machine. Hopefully this text diagram will not be a mess when I email it. Chris > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 16:57:14 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 11:57:14 -0500 Subject: Apologies for html message In-Reply-To: <4792178D.2030008-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <479176D6.5070609@rogers.com> <4791A158.4060603@primus.ca> <4792178D.2030008@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Jan 19, 2008 10:30 AM, John McGregor wrote: > George Nicol wrote: > > OTOH, what is actually annoying is that every time you reply to a > > thread, your reply starts a new thread (is posted outside the original > > thread). I guess you don't thread TLUG messages and therefore don't > > realize this is happening. We both use Tbird but somehow with different > > results. > > > > This reply from me will thread correctly. Notice the subject line above: > > "Re: [TLUG]: Apologies for html message" > > The result will be a post threaded below your "Apologies" email. > > > > Tbird made that happen without any fiddling on my part. All I do is: > > display the post I want to reply to ->- hit "Reply" ->- edit the > > original message ->- bottom post what I have to say ->- and hit "Send". > > > > Pretty simple, really. Tbird does all the heavy lifting. > > > > Now look at the subject line of your reply to Paul King's recent post: > > "[TLUG]: re:OT (Windows): SD Card reader on Gateway Laptop" > > (Notice the position of your "re:" versus my "Re:") The result was a > > new thread. That happened because you munged the subject line. > > > > Please stop adding "re:" to the subject when you reply. It is not > > necessary and causes problems for those (most of us) who have > > threading turned on so that conversations on a given topic are > > separated and thus easier to follow. You may also find it > > advantageous to turn on threading in your client. > > > I didn't realize that I was causing a problem for some and I will > change. What would help future subscribers (and those of us who need a > refresher) to the list would be for the posting guidelines to be posted > on the GTALug wiki. I just checked and there is nothing there ( not even > the long standing requirement for plain text replies) other than the > address where to sign up. Nah, this is a lot more like the British Constitution. (Hint: There is no single such document...) There are members of the list that have been using email since the days of the early RFCs... There *are* standards out there that describe things about "good form." There is RFC 1855, for instance. http://www.dtcc.edu/cs/rfc1855.html I always had some favor for the "Emily Postnews" document... http://www.templetons.com/brad/emily.html -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 16:59:33 2008 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 11:59:33 -0500 Subject: TrueType Fonts in Debian In-Reply-To: <20080119050352.GA16607-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20080119050352.GA16607@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <47922C75.7010404@ve3syb.ca> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I put the TTF file in /usr/share/fonts/truetype, and I see it when I run > this: > > fslsfonts -server unix/:7101 > > but not when I run this: > > xlsfonts I don't run a Debian based system. Off the top of my head, the first thing I would check is whether you have "unix/:7101" listed as one of the FontPath's in the X Windows configuration file. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 17:32:00 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:32:00 -0500 Subject: TrueType Fonts in Debian In-Reply-To: <47922C75.7010404-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20080119050352.GA16607@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <47922C75.7010404@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <47923410.4040809@rogers.com> You didn't specify which font you need to install, but Mepis 7.0 which is now based on Debian Etch (rather than Ubuntu) has a package called 'msttcorefonts' whch will install the following Microsoft fonts: Andale Mono Arial Black Arial (Bold, Italic, Bold Italic) Comic Sans MS (Bold) Courier New (Bold, Italic, Bold Italic) Georgia (Bold, Italic, Bold Italic) Impact Times New Roman (Bold, Italic, Bold Italic) Trebuchet (Bold, Italic, Bold Italic) Verdana (Bold, Italic, Bold Italic) Webdings I checked and the package is also available in Sid. hth John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 18:47:22 2008 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:47:22 -0500 Subject: Debian Sid and Grub In-Reply-To: <20080117152808.GZ2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200801151144.17088.mervc@eol.ca> <200801151509.21470.mervc@eol.ca> <20080117152808.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200801191347.23409.mervc@eol.ca> On Thursday 17 January 2008 10:28, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 03:09:21PM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > > I installed the grub-doc pkg for ver .97 this AM and perhaps you could > > check it and see if you interpret it the way I did. Maybe I'll do a temp > > LVM setup using the whole disk and see if it seems to work. I'd ruther > > trust you tho, ;-) > > Well I found a web page that explicitly said that LVM support was added > to Grub in version 1.95 which is the development for GRUB2. 0.97 is > certainly not 1.95. > With Debian I never really know what version some things are. Looking a bit more carefully at the repository, I see that Grub 2 is version 1.95, my inattention, sorry. > A small /boot is no big deal though (200MB is what I tend to suggest), > and everything you actually really use will be on LVM. > > -- I think you can make it only as small as one track of the disk, so it will depend on the disk capacity? Maybe I am just using the wrong partitioning tool. At any rate I have 3 small partitions at the start of the drive and Mythbuntu installed in 2 LVM logicals. That part is ok but the mythtv backend refuses to work so far. No problem like this before with mythtv. Hopefully my error will show up. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Sid Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.7 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 19:42:03 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 14:42:03 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801181836u4ae28057mc21f3fb2527d7a40-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4784D589.8050106@chrisaitken.net> <4786B0CD.7060800@chrisaitken.net> <32f6a8880801101623y2dd23c44l50a1beb7c8a443db@mail.gmail.com> <20080111141826.GO2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080111231157.22527.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080114145833.GR2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080116191049.31384.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <32f6a8880801161438s62a049eaj8a84668a8facc3ba@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880801161441m5f84f994o622f7966f6ad95f9@mail.gmail.com> <478F9872.6020401@chrisaitken.net> <32f6a8880801181836u4ae28057mc21f3fb2527d7a40@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080119194203.30069.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Dave Germiquet writes: > Hey Chris, > > So it looks like there is no open ssh server on there :) Okay, I did a sudo apt-get install openssh-server. I tried scp and, after something about RSA, authentication, and IP added to list of known addresses, it worked! Sorry, I was using some sloppy troubleshooting. I figured that since I could scp from cpc to ppc, that cpc should have already had everything it needs. Of course, when I tried the other way around (scp from ppc to cpc) I got the same 'connection lost' error (as the one got when trying to scp from dpc to cpc). So, you (and Lennart) were right - openssh was not on cpc. So, I still can't give dpc the 192.168.0.4/24 address that I wanted (I guess I'm stuck with the 192.168.0.102/24 address that it got (I guess) from the router. However, now that I can do everything I want from dpc (Internet, printing, and scp) I guess I can live with the 192.168.0.4/24 address. Just a little annoying that I don't "get" why. If anyone knows a good tcp/ip readme let me know. Can you believe I actually passed the TCP/IP exam when I did my mcse (dirty acronym, I know) years ago? Thanks for your help guys. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 20:58:35 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:58:35 -0500 Subject: TrueType Fonts in Debian In-Reply-To: <47923410.4040809-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080119050352.GA16607@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <47922C75.7010404@ve3syb.ca> <47923410.4040809@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080119205835.GA28781@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I do have the MS fonts you suggest - the font I need is ITC Officina Sans, which I have purchased and put in its proper location (as far as I know - /usr/share/fonts/truetye). FontPath "unix/:7101" and FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/truetye" Are both in my xorg.conf, and the freetype module is also enabled. So I'm a bit stuck/confused at this point. Thanks for the help so far though - any other thoughts? -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 22:22:51 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:22:51 -0500 Subject: TrueType Fonts in Debian In-Reply-To: <20080119205835.GA28781-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20080119050352.GA16607@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <47922C75.7010404@ve3syb.ca> <47923410.4040809@rogers.com> <20080119205835.GA28781@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <4792783B.3060700@rogers.com> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I do have the MS fonts you suggest - the font I need is ITC Officina Sans, > which I have purchased and put in its proper location (as far as I know > - /usr/share/fonts/truetye). > > > FontPath "unix/:7101" > and > FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/truetye" > > Are both in my xorg.conf, and the freetype module is also enabled. So > I'm a bit stuck/confused at this point. > > Thanks for the help so far though - any other thoughts? > There is a spelling error in this line " FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/truetye"". Was that just in this email or did you maybe make the mistake in your path statement? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 23:57:28 2008 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 18:57:28 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <20080118175123.GD2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080119235727.GG3638@adb.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well you could fill the device with a file (or multiple) containing all > zeros. That would at least fill all the free space with data which you > could then delete. If there's even the slightest chance you'll eventually run up against a filesystem that does compression and can store a lot of /dev/zero in a very small space, you could eventually get burned. Giving it /dev/urandom gives it something it can't effectively compress and has to write out in detail. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 01:02:13 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 20:02:13 -0500 Subject: TrueType Fonts in Debian In-Reply-To: <4792783B.3060700-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080119050352.GA16607@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <47922C75.7010404@ve3syb.ca> <47923410.4040809@rogers.com> <20080119205835.GA28781@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4792783B.3060700@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080120010213.GA30855@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Sat, Jan 19, 2008 at 05:22:51PM -0500, John McGregor wrote: > William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> I do have the MS fonts you suggest - the font I need is ITC Officina Sans, >> which I have purchased and put in its proper location (as far as I know >> - /usr/share/fonts/truetye). >> >> >> FontPath "unix/:7101" >> and FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/truetye" >> >> Are both in my xorg.conf, and the freetype module is also enabled. So >> I'm a bit stuck/confused at this point. >> >> Thanks for the help so far though - any other thoughts? >> > There is a spelling error in this line " > > FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/truetye"". Was that just in this email or did you maybe make the mistake in your path statement? I only made that mistake in the email, but good catch. The trick was that had not set up the metadata in the truetype directory - I needed to run mkfontscale and mkfontdir - once I did that, all was well. Thanks for the help. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 13:37:14 2008 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:37:14 +0100 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47934E8A.6000706@visible-assets.com> I give gentoo a thumbs up and have used it for everything from laptops to servers. It's also very easy to set up a cross-compiler and cross-compile easily extractable tar.bz2 packages using gentoo. The packaging system allows for both binary packages and packages built form source (giving you quasi-automatic, fine-grained control over dependencies, library usage, etc) On the downside, there is no central binary package repository (some unnoffical ones), but you can easily create your own. With that in mind, if you count the number of cycles that gentoo's entire userbase has used to build packages from scratch, that must take some toll on power consumption. Also, gentoo has probably the most extensive forum / mailing list / online documentation support base that i've ever seen, so it's easy to get the answers you need fast. ~/Chris Tyler Aviss wrote: > I've been a long-term Debian user, but though I do love apt, I tend to > find that it falls short in some cases. In particular, I haven't been > overly pleased with using an AMD64 desktop vs the packages available > using IA32, even for newer Debian-derived distros such as Ubuntu. > > Since I use my more powerful machine as part desktop, part workhouse, > I'm interesting in switching to Gentoo as a desktop distro. I've heard > good things about it in terms of performance server-wise, and am > wondering if anyone has had much experience using it as a > workstation/desktop (and as such, what's the availability of desktop > software, media packages, etc like). > > Any Gentoo desktop users out there? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 14:43:16 2008 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 09:43:16 -0500 Subject: Phisher of the Week In-Reply-To: <4749.99.232.68.237.1196731631.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <4749.99.232.68.237.1196731631.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <47935E04.8000909@primus.ca> Not Phisher, but rather "Spammer of the Week" -- sometimes, they can be quite humourous: Subject: when it absolutely, positively has to be there tonight Body of Message: Reach out and bone someone -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 16:04:54 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 08:04:54 -0800 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <47934E8A.6000706-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <47934E8A.6000706@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: On Jan 20, 2008 5:37 AM, Christopher Friedt wrote: > I give gentoo a thumbs up and have used it for everything from laptops > to servers. It's also very easy to set up a cross-compiler and > cross-compile easily extractable tar.bz2 packages using gentoo. Gentoo really is a great distro. I used it for many years before switching to Debian-based systems for good. The problem comes when you need to get something done immediately, and your Gentoo breaks. You are SOL, especially if you installed stage1 ~amd64 like me :-) I enjoy the fine-tuned ability of setting my USE flags, but after a while, I got sick of it and just wanted my system to install a package and be done. I didn't like planning my meals around 'emerge' sessions! So, there is a trade-off of getting what you need immediately and having to wait for long compile times... > The packaging system allows for both binary packages and packages built > form source (giving you quasi-automatic, fine-grained control over > dependencies, library usage, etc) > > On the downside, there is no central binary package repository (some > unnoffical ones), but you can easily create your own. With that in mind, > if you count the number of cycles that gentoo's entire userbase has used > to build packages from scratch, that must take some toll on power > consumption. Now, some would say that binaries solve the compilation of large packages like Gnome, KDE, OO.org, etc. However, these packages are not in a main repository, as you say, and could be a security vulnerability (trojaned). I would never use Gentoo binary packages on a machine that needed to be secured... > Also, gentoo has probably the most extensive forum / mailing list / > online documentation support base that i've ever seen, so it's easy to > get the answers you need fast. Yes, Gentoo still has the best documentation ever ... period. Even though I am now an Ubuntu user, whenever I am looking for a howto or docs on some configuration, I google 'gentoo' + the search term. I know the gentoo wiki must have an entry on it somewhere and will be well written by experts. Ubuntu users are usually very n00bish, so I don't really trust what they say. I am not a n00b, and I trust gentoo documentation :-) Sometimes I even edit the Gentoo wiki even though I am now an Ubuntu user...heh -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 18:51:01 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 13:51:01 -0500 Subject: OT (Windows): SD Card reader on Gateway Laptop In-Reply-To: <1200711368.7858.7.camel@aragorn> References: <1200711368.7858.7.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: <20080120185101.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 09:56:07PM -0500, Paul King wrote: > This is labelled off-topic, since this is a Windows question, and I need > some help. My Gateway laptop, about 1.5 years old, a wireless > tablet/notebook combo, has a slot for an SD card at the front of the > unit. While it doesn't work in Linux, it also doesn't work in Windows. I > thought that Windows would auto-detect the device, but it does not. > > There is no bios setting for this, and the forums I've visited have > stated that there was a problem, but I had no satisfactory answer as of > yet. OTOH, there is plenty of stuff regarding Linux which I am going to > try out, which is why I am not asking about Linux. > > If anyone knows anything about these Gateway laptops and had dealt with > the issue, please reply if you can. Thanks. A number of laptops in the past used a texas instruments based PCI device for memory cards on laptops. If you have linux you should see it in the PCI device listing (lspci) although it probably won't work. Someone has been working on reverse engineering it though so it might even work someday. As for windows, well maybe you don't have the driver installed. or maybe you are using a card it doesn't like. The one on my wife's previous compaq laptop only supported up to 512MB cards. 1GB and higher simply gave strange errors and weird behaviour if it did anything at all. Apparently some card readers were designed with the assumption that the block size would always be 512bytes or something like that, and 1GB and higher need to use a larger block size. Of course SDHC is different again and only devices designed to support SDHC can use 4GB and higher cards. Plain SD is 2GB and less only, and hence the largest most devices can handle (unless they ignored part of the spec and got stuck at 512MB). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 18:52:02 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 13:52:02 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080118222200.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080118232608.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080120185202.GK2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 06:45:58PM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > if you're going to start messing around with flash, you might want to > install the "mtd-utils" package on your system. if you've never > worked with flash filesystems, prepare to re-learn how to do basic > operations, like clearing the raw filesystem. you'll be working with > commands like flash_erase and flash_eraseall. mtd only applies to raw flash devices. Anything with an interface (IDE, CF, SD, etc) don't let you at that low a level and manager all that stuff in the interface automatically. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 18:53:43 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 13:53:43 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <20080119235727.GG3638-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080119235727.GG3638@adb.ca> Message-ID: <20080120185343.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 19, 2008 at 06:57:28PM -0500, Anthony de Boer wrote: > If there's even the slightest chance you'll eventually run up against a > filesystem that does compression and can store a lot of /dev/zero in a > very small space, you could eventually get burned. Giving it /dev/urandom > gives it something it can't effectively compress and has to write out in > detail. If you use compression, then all bets or off since the compression will certainly not generate a pattern on disk (or flash) matching the intent which in this case would be to fill the device causing as much as possible to get overwritten without causing excess erase/write cycles to the flash chip. Besides does anyone actually bother wasting time on compressed filesystems anymore? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 18:57:27 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 13:57:27 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <20080120185202.GK2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080118222200.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080118232608.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120185202.GK2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <47939997.4060008@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 06:45:58PM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > >> if you're going to start messing around with flash, you might want to >> install the "mtd-utils" package on your system. if you've never >> worked with flash filesystems, prepare to re-learn how to do basic >> operations, like clearing the raw filesystem. you'll be working with >> commands like flash_erase and flash_eraseall. >> > > mtd only applies to raw flash devices. Anything with an interface (IDE, > CF, SD, etc) don't let you at that low a level and manager all that > stuff in the interface automatically. > > The simplest way, by far, is to simply encrypt the drive. It is very easy to do that in Linux. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 18:58:38 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 13:58:38 -0500 Subject: TrueType Fonts in Debian In-Reply-To: <20080119050352.GA16607-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20080119050352.GA16607@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20080120185838.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 19, 2008 at 12:03:52AM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I have an interesting problem - I am generally happy with the fonts I > see, but I need to install a TrueType font on a Debian testing machine, > and I can't seem to figure it out. > > I put the TTF file in /usr/share/fonts/truetype, and I see it when I run > this: > > fslsfonts -server unix/:7101 > > but not when I run this: > > xlsfonts > > I was following this page, but it is old, and perhaps not appropriate: > > http://tldp.org/HOWTO/TT-Debian-3.html#ss3.2 > > Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks. Look at the docs for defoma (Debian Font Manager). It has lots of utils for managing adding and removing fonts from the system. I guess looking at how the msttcorefonts package installs TTF files would help too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 19:02:04 2008 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:02:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <20080120185202.GK2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080118222200.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080118232608.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120185202.GK2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jan 2008, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 06:45:58PM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > if you're going to start messing around with flash, you might want to > > install the "mtd-utils" package on your system. if you've never > > worked with flash filesystems, prepare to re-learn how to do basic > > operations, like clearing the raw filesystem. you'll be working with > > commands like flash_erase and flash_eraseall. > > mtd only applies to raw flash devices. Anything with an interface (IDE, > CF, SD, etc) don't let you at that low a level and manager all that > stuff in the interface automatically. yes, i realized that shortly after i posted -- i've been buried in an embedded linux project lately and just got some neurons crossed. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Home page: http://crashcourse.ca Fedora Cookbook: http://crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Fedora_Cookbook ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 19:02:38 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:02:38 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <4792213D.6010008-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <475E84AE.200@chrisaitken.net> <475EA3D0.9000003@chrisaitken.net> <475EA89C.4060807@chrisaitken.net> <20071211160301.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211161308.9490.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211190759.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4792213D.6010008@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080120190238.GN2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 19, 2008 at 11:11:41AM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > Internet (cable modem) --- router --- all other machines > > The reason I keep harping on the little gui network configurator > ('neat') is not because I'm looking for pity and want a nice little gui > network configurator to use in ubuntu (okay I /would/ like such an app > (but not the pity)). I'm just trying to let you guys know that what I > was doing on previous installations (successfully for years) was simply > this: > > > "ppc" (192.168.0.3 for > local stuff like scp and printing; dhcp-asigned address for Internet) > - > - > - > internet (cable modem) --- router --- "cpc" (192.168.0.2 for local stuff > like scp and printing; dhcp-asigned address for Internet) > - > - > - > "dpc" (192.168.0.4 for > local stuff like scp and printing; dhcp-asigned address for Internet) > > > I'll use "ppc" as an example since it is the last fedora box (with the > 'neat' app) in the house. In 'neat' I simply click on the Ethernet > Device eth0 and click 'Add' to add a new "Ethernet Device" which is then > named eth0:1. To that device I assign "Static Address" 192.168.0.3/24. > The eth0 Device is set to "Automatically obtain IP address settings via > DHCP". > > I do not understand IP anywhere near as well as you. I do, however, > humbly insist that the above works (for me) very well. I simply have not > been able to do this on the ubuntu machine. > > Hopefully this text diagram will not be a mess when I email it. I think the real problem is that you keep trying to add a new interface when you only have one and just should be changing its settings. Change eth0 from DHCP to Manual and set the IP you want. That's all you need. Each machine only has one interface, which is then eth0 in most cases, so that is the only interface that should have any configuration at all, and if you want fixed addresses, don't use DHCP since DHCP is for dynamicly assigned addresses. Just make sure you set the IP, DNS server and gateway IP correctly. The DNS and gateway are probably your router's local IP, although the DNS could be something else. You can check your current settings (/etc/resolv.conf should show the current nameserver) and 'ip ro sh' or 'route' should show your current default gateway IP (which will be the router's internal IP for sure). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 19:04:35 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:04:35 -0500 Subject: Debian Sid and Grub In-Reply-To: <200801191347.23409.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200801151144.17088.mervc@eol.ca> <200801151509.21470.mervc@eol.ca> <20080117152808.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200801191347.23409.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20080120190435.GO2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 19, 2008 at 01:47:22PM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > I think you can make it only as small as one track of the disk, so it will > depend on the disk capacity? Maybe I am just using the wrong partitioning > tool. Sure you could make it that small, but would it have enough room for your kernels and initrd's if you did that? Disk space is cheap, I hate running out. :) > At any rate I have 3 small partitions at the start of the drive and Mythbuntu > installed in 2 LVM logicals. That part is ok but the mythtv backend refuses > to work so far. No problem like this before with mythtv. Hopefully my error > will show up. I believe you have to make database changes for mythtv to allow remote clients to talk to it. I saw something in the mythtv docs about it. My mythtv is all on one box so I haven't had to look at it yet. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 19:05:30 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:05:30 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <47939997.4060008-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080118222200.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080118232608.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120185202.GK2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47939997.4060008@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080120190530.GP2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 20, 2008 at 01:57:27PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > The simplest way, by far, is to simply encrypt the drive. It is very > easy to do that in Linux. Absolutely. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 19:11:52 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:11:52 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <47934E8A.6000706-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <47934E8A.6000706@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <20080120191152.GQ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 20, 2008 at 02:37:14PM +0100, Christopher Friedt wrote: > I give gentoo a thumbs up and have used it for everything from laptops > to servers. It's also very easy to set up a cross-compiler and > cross-compile easily extractable tar.bz2 packages using gentoo. > > The packaging system allows for both binary packages and packages built > form source (giving you quasi-automatic, fine-grained control over > dependencies, library usage, etc) > > On the downside, there is no central binary package repository (some > unnoffical ones), but you can easily create your own. With that in mind, > if you count the number of cycles that gentoo's entire userbase has used > to build packages from scratch, that must take some toll on power > consumption. Probably a scary amount of pointless waste yes. At least folding at home and such have the potential to accomplish something with the cycles they chew through. So Gentoo both wastes your time while you wait for software to compile and it is bad for the environment too. :) > Also, gentoo has probably the most extensive forum / mailing list / > online documentation support base that i've ever seen, so it's easy to > get the answers you need fast. lists.debian.org not to mention a bunch of irc channels along with lots of places I have never looked at (I know they have forums, but forums are a lousy interface compared to mailing lists and IRC). I doubt any distribution is anywhere near that size of support base, although ubuntu is getting there (although it does to some extent share with debian on a lot of things which is handy). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 19:13:42 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:13:42 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <47934E8A.6000706@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <20080120191342.GR2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 20, 2008 at 08:04:54AM -0800, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > Now, some would say that binaries solve the compilation of large > packages like Gnome, KDE, OO.org, etc. However, these packages are > not in a main repository, as you say, and could be a security > vulnerability (trojaned). I would never use Gentoo binary packages on > a machine that needed to be secured... So where did you get your compiler from that you used to compile everything? Why did you trust that compiler? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 19:32:10 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:32:10 -0500 Subject: Canadian Web Host (Shared) with PHP 5.2.1 Message-ID: <4793A1BA.8020100@rogers.com> HI I am looking for the subject. My current host is stuck on 4.4.4 and will not upgrade. I need the servers physically in Canada (or Europe) and not the US. Can someone point me to a host? Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 20:14:54 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:14:54 -0500 Subject: Canadian Web Host (Shared) with PHP 5.2.1 In-Reply-To: <4793A1BA.8020100-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4793A1BA.8020100@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4793ABBE.1050704@rogers.com> I found http://hostpapa.ca/index.shtml They look good for me. Anyone use them? Thanks Stephen Stephen wrote: > HI > > I am looking for the subject. My current host is stuck on 4.4.4 and will > not upgrade. > > I need the servers physically in Canada (or Europe) and not the US. > > Can someone point me to a host? > > Thanks > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 20:52:08 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:52:08 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080120190238.GN2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <475E84AE.200@chrisaitken.net> <475EA3D0.9000003@chrisaitken.net> <475EA89C.4060807@chrisaitken.net> <20071211160301.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211161308.9490.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211190759.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4792213D.6010008@chrisaitken.net> <20080120190238.GN2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080120205208.25319.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Lennart Sorensen writes: > On Sat, Jan 19, 2008 at 11:11:41AM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: >> Internet (cable modem) --- router --- all other machines >> >> The reason I keep harping on the little gui network configurator >> ('neat') is not because I'm looking for pity and want a nice little gui >> network configurator to use in ubuntu (okay I /would/ like such an app >> (but not the pity)). I'm just trying to let you guys know that what I >> was doing on previous installations (successfully for years) was simply >> this: >> >> >> "ppc" (192.168.0.3 for >> local stuff like scp and printing; dhcp-asigned address for Internet) >> - >> - >> - >> internet (cable modem) --- router --- "cpc" (192.168.0.2 for local stuff >> like scp and printing; dhcp-asigned address for Internet) >> - >> - >> - >> "dpc" (192.168.0.4 for >> local stuff like scp and printing; dhcp-asigned address for Internet) >> >> >> I'll use "ppc" as an example since it is the last fedora box (with the >> 'neat' app) in the house. In 'neat' I simply click on the Ethernet >> Device eth0 and click 'Add' to add a new "Ethernet Device" which is then >> named eth0:1. To that device I assign "Static Address" 192.168.0.3/24. >> The eth0 Device is set to "Automatically obtain IP address settings via >> DHCP". >> >> I do not understand IP anywhere near as well as you. I do, however, >> humbly insist that the above works (for me) very well. I simply have not >> been able to do this on the ubuntu machine. >> >> Hopefully this text diagram will not be a mess when I email it. > > I think the real problem is that you keep trying to add a new interface > when you only have one and just should be changing its settings. > > Change eth0 from DHCP to Manual and set the IP you want. But don't I have to have a "Device" set to 'Automatically obtain IP address from DHCP'? Isn't that how I say "yes" to the Internet cable modem (via my router?) that I do want an IP address on the Internet? > That's all you > need. Each machine only has one interface, which is then eth0 in most > cases, so that is the only interface that should have any configuration > at all, But doesn't the "one interface" need two addresses (one DHCP-assigned for Internet and one static for printing/scp et al.)? > and if you want fixed addresses, don't use DHCP since DHCP is > for dynamically assigned addresses. Yes, "dynamically assigned" by the ISP, no? > Just make sure you set the IP, DNS server and gateway IP correctly. Oh yeah! My static address lets me scp/print et al. and when I want the Internet the gateway (192.168.0.1) gets me there! Chris > The > DNS and gateway are probably your router's local IP, although the DNS > could be something else. You can check your current settings > (/etc/resolv.conf should show the current nameserver) and 'ip ro sh' or > 'route' should show your current default gateway IP (which will be the > router's internal IP for sure). > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 20:56:05 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:56:05 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080120205208.25319.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <475EA3D0.9000003@chrisaitken.net> <475EA89C.4060807@chrisaitken.net> <20071211160301.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211161308.9490.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211190759.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4792213D.6010008@chrisaitken.net> <20080120190238.GN2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120205208.25319.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080120205605.GS2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 20, 2008 at 03:52:08PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > But don't I have to have a "Device" set to 'Automatically obtain IP address > from DHCP'? Isn't that how I say "yes" to the Internet cable modem (via my > router?) that I do want an IP address on the Internet? No. Your router gets a DHCP address from the ISP for the cable modem. It then masquarades your local network using that IP. No one behind the router needs DHCP since no one behind the router is visible to the outside. After all the 192.168 address you are getting from DHCP is a private local only IP, it isn't your IP on the internet so obviously DHCP isn't giving you an IP from the cable company on that machine. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 21:15:55 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:15:55 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080120205605.GS2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <475EA3D0.9000003@chrisaitken.net> <475EA89C.4060807@chrisaitken.net> <20071211160301.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211161308.9490.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211190759.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4792213D.6010008@chrisaitken.net> <20080120190238.GN2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120205208.25319.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080120205605.GS2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080120211555.31401.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Lennart Sorensen writes: > No. Your router gets a DHCP address from the ISP for the cable modem. > It then masquarades your local network using that IP. No one behind the > router needs DHCP since no one behind the router is visible to the > outside. > > After all the 192.168 address you are getting from DHCP is a private > local only IP, it isn't your IP on the internet so obviously DHCP isn't > giving you an IP from the cable company on that machine. Yeah, I'm finally understanding this stuff. Here is my new (simplified) /etc/network/interfaces: auto lo auto eth0 auto eth0:0 iface eth0 inet static address 192.168.0.4 netmask 255.255.255.0 gateway 192.168.0.1 iface lo inet loopback Can that be streamlined any more or is that as simple as it can be? Chris > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 21:22:10 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:22:10 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080120211555.31401.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20071211160301.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211161308.9490.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211190759.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4792213D.6010008@chrisaitken.net> <20080120190238.GN2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120205208.25319.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080120205605.GS2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120211555.31401.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080120212210.GT2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 20, 2008 at 04:15:55PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > Yeah, I'm finally understanding this stuff. Here is my new (simplified) > /etc/network/interfaces: > > auto lo > auto eth0 > auto eth0:0 > > iface eth0 inet static > address 192.168.0.4 > netmask 255.255.255.0 > gateway 192.168.0.1 > > iface lo inet loopback > > Can that be streamlined any more or is that as simple as it can be? You could delete the line about eth0:0 which makes no sense since there is no iface section for that name. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 21:29:41 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:29:41 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080120205605.GS2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <475EA3D0.9000003@chrisaitken.net> <475EA89C.4060807@chrisaitken.net> <20071211160301.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211161308.9490.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211190759.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4792213D.6010008@chrisaitken.net> <20080120190238.GN2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120205208.25319.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080120205605.GS2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4793BD45.8060605@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Jan 20, 2008 at 03:52:08PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> But don't I have to have a "Device" set to 'Automatically obtain IP address >> from DHCP'? Isn't that how I say "yes" to the Internet cable modem (via my >> router?) that I do want an IP address on the Internet? >> > > No. Your router gets a DHCP address from the ISP for the cable modem. > It then masquarades your local network using that IP. No one behind the > router needs DHCP since no one behind the router is visible to the > outside. > ???? My router (a linux box) has a real world address. The modem has a 10.x.x.x address. Rogers uses addresses in the 10.x.x.x range for communications around it's internal network. Fox example, if I do a traceroute to Yahoo, I get these lines, plus a few more at the Yahoo end. 1 10.11.0.1 7.082 ms 6.737 ms 5.814 ms 2 vl-201.gw03.wlfdle.phub.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.90.161) 9.586 ms 9.075 ms 11.881 ms 3 te-15-1-0.gw01.wlfdle.phub.net.cable.rogers.com (24.153.5.25) 7.223 ms 10.299 ms 9.148 ms 4 so-2-3-0.gw02.bloor.phub.net.cable.rogers.com (64.71.240.106) 6.814 ms 9.930 ms 8.484 ms 5 so-1-1-0.igw01.chcrmk.phub.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.80.201) 18.428 ms 21.458 ms 18.615 ms 6 * * * 7 so-1-0-0.pat2.nyc.yahoo.com (216.115.101.159) 42.667 ms 38.064 ms 33.467 ms Notice that address in line 1? That's the next hop beyond my modem address. Many people believe the RFC1918 addresses are non-routable, which is nonsense. They route just fine, but are not supposed to be routed onto "The Internet". So, Rogers uses them internally and should be filtering them, to keep them from going to the internet. The same thing happens with ADSL DSLAM's. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 21:31:37 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:31:37 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <20080120212210.GT2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20071211160301.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211161308.9490.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211190759.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4792213D.6010008@chrisaitken.net> <20080120190238.GN2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120205208.25319.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080120205605.GS2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120211555.31401.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080120212210.GT2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080120213137.23245.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Lennart Sorensen writes: > You could delete the line about eth0:0 which makes no sense since there > is no iface section for that name. Okay, I removed it. Man, it seems so simple now. I guess that's it for the D'oh! thread. If I pose any more questions it will just be mental mop-up. I'm printing, scp'ing, and surfing now - thanks! Chris > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 21:57:52 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:57:52 -0500 Subject: D'oh! In-Reply-To: <4793BD45.8060605-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20071211160301.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211161308.9490.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211164004.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20071211185848.22110.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20071211190759.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4792213D.6010008@chrisaitken.net> <20080120190238.GN2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120205208.25319.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080120205605.GS2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4793BD45.8060605@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080120215752.GU2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 20, 2008 at 04:29:41PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > ???? > > My router (a linux box) has a real world address. The modem has a > 10.x.x.x address. Rogers uses addresses in the 10.x.x.x range for > communications around it's internal network. Fox example, if I do a > traceroute to Yahoo, I get these lines, plus a few more at the Yahoo end. > > 1 10.11.0.1 7.082 ms 6.737 ms 5.814 ms > 2 vl-201.gw03.wlfdle.phub.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.90.161) 9.586 ms > 9.075 ms 11.881 ms > 3 te-15-1-0.gw01.wlfdle.phub.net.cable.rogers.com (24.153.5.25) 7.223 ms > 10.299 ms 9.148 ms > 4 so-2-3-0.gw02.bloor.phub.net.cable.rogers.com (64.71.240.106) 6.814 ms > 9.930 ms 8.484 ms > 5 so-1-1-0.igw01.chcrmk.phub.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.80.201) 18.428 > ms 21.458 ms 18.615 ms > 6 * * * > 7 so-1-0-0.pat2.nyc.yahoo.com (216.115.101.159) 42.667 ms 38.064 ms > 33.467 ms > > Notice that address in line 1? That's the next hop beyond my modem address. > > Many people believe the RFC1918 addresses are non-routable, which is > nonsense. They route just fine, but are not supposed to be routed onto > "The Internet". So, Rogers uses them internally and should be filtering > them, to keep them from going to the internet. The same thing happens > with ADSL DSLAM's. Oh they are routeable, but only within a private network. Rogers can use private IPs internally in their network for devices which noone outside rogers should ever talk to directly. As long as rogers knows how to route it, everything is fine. The IP they assign to the customer obviously has to be routeable on the internet and not just rogers network so it has to be a non private IP. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 22:01:35 2008 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 17:01:35 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <20080120185343.GL2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080119235727.GG3638@adb.ca> <20080120185343.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Besides does anyone actually bother wasting time on compressed > filesystems anymore? I've wasted CPU time on worse things. :-) That said, compressed filesystems would tend to be more desirable for flash devices, since they tend to lag a lot behind other devices in size and be more expensive per size. Also, when used to cart files from one computer to another, there's less need for random access within files; you're not likely to mount a MySQL database there. Back when flash was far more expensive than RAM, I built a system that extracted a RAM filesystem from a gzipped tarball on flash, and we deployed several of those across Canada. For similar use you now have squashfs (and the earlier cramfs). If you're dealing with raw flash, there's JFFS2, but it's less applicable with USB devices and the like that we access at a higher level already. There's also the consideration that gzipped tarballs and most popular multimedia file formats incorporate compression internally, so you're not gaining anything from another layer of compression if carting files like that around is your application. Compression of a read-write filesystem is something that I recall people were doing in the DOS era (Wikipedia tells me "Stacker" and "Doublespace" were the names, and I'm recalling a lawsuit in there too), but at least in the Linux mainstream the idea never really caught on. So yes, squashfs is current technology. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 22:23:38 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 17:23:38 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <20080120220135.GB7124-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080119235727.GG3638@adb.ca> <20080120185343.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> Message-ID: <20080120222338.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 20, 2008 at 05:01:35PM -0500, Anthony de Boer wrote: > I've wasted CPU time on worse things. :-) > > That said, compressed filesystems would tend to be more desirable for > flash devices, since they tend to lag a lot behind other devices in size > and be more expensive per size. Also, when used to cart files from one > computer to another, there's less need for random access within files; > you're not likely to mount a MySQL database there. If all you ever do is copy files whole to and from the flash device, then it might be OK. If you ever wanted to edit a file, then with a compressed filesystem you have to rewrite the whole file on a write rather than just the part of the file that is changing. It's a compromise. You also need quite a bit of CPU power to compress files fast enough to actually write faster than you could without compression. > Back when flash was far more expensive than RAM, I built a system that > extracted a RAM filesystem from a gzipped tarball on flash, and we > deployed several of those across Canada. For similar use you now have > squashfs (and the earlier cramfs). If you're dealing with raw flash, > there's JFFS2, but it's less applicable with USB devices and the like > that we access at a higher level already. > > There's also the consideration that gzipped tarballs and most popular > multimedia file formats incorporate compression internally, so you're > not gaining anything from another layer of compression if carting files > like that around is your application. > > Compression of a read-write filesystem is something that I recall people > were doing in the DOS era (Wikipedia tells me "Stacker" and "Doublespace" > were the names, and I'm recalling a lawsuit in there too), but at least > in the Linux mainstream the idea never really caught on. > > So yes, squashfs is current technology. Making a readonly filesystem compressed makes some sense. After all decompression is quite fast and if the files are never changed then you can actually gain something from the compression. For read-write it just doesn't seem to make sense. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 02:35:54 2008 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 03:35:54 +0100 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <47934E8A.6000706@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <4794050A.4000405@visible-assets.com> Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > The problem comes when > you need to get something done immediately, and your Gentoo breaks. > You are SOL, especially if you installed stage1 ~amd64 like me :-) I > enjoy the fine-tuned ability of setting my USE flags, but after a > while, I got sick of it and just wanted my system to install a package > and be done. I didn't like planning my meals around 'emerge' > sessions! So, there is a trade-off of getting what you need > immediately and having to wait for long compile times... I completely agree... I'm pretty sick of compiling packages. For that reason alone, I'm likely going to set up my own package server at some point if I do decide to stick with Gentoo. Ubuntu will likely be on my next laptop (Eee PC 8G), just for simplicity's sake. Heck, I could probably put gentoo, ubuntu, and Windoze (OMG!) on separate SD cards ;-) ... actually, i'm not even sure if I know how to use windows any more... I'm afraid I would put cygwin on it ;-) > Now, some would say that binaries solve the compilation of large > packages like Gnome, KDE, OO.org, etc. However, these packages are > not in a main repository, as you say, and could be a security > vulnerability (trojaned). I would never use Gentoo binary packages on > a machine that needed to be secured... My brain is too tired to even think about the security complications of centralized or even decentralized binary package repos... although even if the repo published a validation cert that the repo admin presumeably called to each client, there's still the possibility of a man in the middle attack. Gentoo will likely be experiencing some major overhauls and new direction (Daniel Robins might be heading back as the pres!). Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 04:30:57 2008 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 23:30:57 -0500 Subject: Standard serial/parallel ports for new PC Message-ID: <47942001.6020805@ve3syb.ca> Greetings. The one thing my new computer (HP computer with Core 2 Duo processor) doesn't have is either a serial or parallel port. I know there are USB adapters to provide these types of ports but they aren't useful to me. I have some programs which require being able to do bit-bashing on the ports. I also want to do use the parallel port for interfacing with some electronic circuits, and I can use it with my old laser printer. I would like to get a single board that has a 9-pin serial port compatible with a standard 8250/16450/16550 chip, and a 25-pin parallel port compatible with a standard 8255 chip, and that use standard IRQ's for each of the serial and parallel ports on the board. The boards I have found are a in the $60 to close to $100 but seem to share a single IRQ. Since they do that, I would question their compatability with the ports found on older computers. Anyone happen to know of a source for such a board? If I can't get both ports on one board, I could go with just a parallel port board for now. The board(s) need to be Linux compatible. A board that would work but comes with some custom Windows driver isn't likely to be useful. The alternative would be to make one myself but that is likely to be a hassle to interface with the PCI bus used in the current day machines. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ronjscott-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 06:07:21 2008 From: ronjscott-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (ron) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 01:07:21 -0500 Subject: Standard serial/parallel ports for new PC In-Reply-To: <47942001.6020805-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <47942001.6020805@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <47943699.4010708@sympatico.ca> Kevin Cozens wrote: > Greetings. > > The one thing my new computer (HP computer with Core 2 Duo processor) > doesn't have is either a serial or parallel port. I know there are USB > adapters to provide these types of ports but they aren't useful to me. > I have some programs which require being able to do bit-bashing on the > ports. I also want to do use the parallel port for interfacing with > some electronic circuits, and I can use it with my old laser printer. > > I would like to get a single board that has a 9-pin serial port > compatible with a standard 8250/16450/16550 chip, and a 25-pin > parallel port compatible with a standard 8255 chip, and that use > standard IRQ's for each of the serial and parallel ports on the board. > > The boards I have found are a in the $60 to close to $100 but seem to > share a single IRQ. Since they do that, I would question their > compatability with the ports found on older computers. Anyone happen > to know of a source for such a board? If I can't get both ports on one > board, I could go with just a parallel port board for now. > > The board(s) need to be Linux compatible. A board that would work but > comes with some custom Windows driver isn't likely to be useful. The > alternative would be to make one myself but that is likely to be a > hassle to interface with the PCI bus used in the current day machines. > You may want to check out the products on www.lavalink.com. They have combo boards as well as parallel and serial boards. They state under Operating Systems - Linux 2.4+. The company is located in Toronto. No, I don't work for them; don't sell them. Ron -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 07:19:14 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 02:19:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <20080120222338.GV2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080119235727.GG3638@adb.ca> <20080120185343.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080120222338.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | If you ever wanted to edit a file, then with a | compressed filesystem you have to rewrite the whole file on a write | rather than just the part of the file that is changing. It depends what you mean by "edit". Most forms of editing rewrite the whole file. Directories and formal databases are significant exceptions. | It's a | compromise. True. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 07:50:42 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 23:50:42 -0800 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <20080120191342.GR2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <47934E8A.6000706@visible-assets.com> <20080120191342.GR2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Jan 20, 2008 11:13 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > So where did you get your compiler from that you used to compile > everything? Why did you trust that compiler? The initial compiler for a Gentoo stage1 install is on the CD, distributed via the gentoo site (or torrent), and the hash matches what they say it should be. That's trust. However, it is not unlikely that the compiler has been trojaned. Every resources can be hacked with adequate resources applied to such an effort of course... -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 07:53:16 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 02:53:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: Standard serial/parallel ports for new PC In-Reply-To: <47942001.6020805-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <47942001.6020805@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: | From: Kevin Cozens | The boards I have found are a in the $60 to close to $100 but seem to share a | single IRQ. Since they do that, I would question their compatibility with the | ports found on older computers. PCI boards are supposed to use PCI bus interrupt request lines (INTA, INTB, INTC, INTD). That is all they can do. It is the duty of the host system to map these IRQ request lines to interrupt numbers. So: it doesn't seem possible for a PCI board to emulate the old-style interrupts purely in hardware. The host could have a kludge to do the trick. Perhaps the BIOS could manage the trick (but how would it know that it should?). I don't think that a BIOS extension on the PCI card could do this. Slightly related issue: If you have a hard to debug kernel problem, you might want to use a serial console: then panic and oops messages might not be lost (or hidden under the X screen). Too bad that serial ports are going (have gone) out of style, especially on laptops. What can replace serial ports for this purpose? - USB serial ports? No: the serial console apparently requires that the device work with a wired-in driver that works before the USB bus is initialized. - PCI board with serial ports? I don't know. I would guess that the PCI bus might be fundamental enough that it is initialized soon enough for this purpose. It won't work on a laptop. Annoyingly expensive. And PCI slots might be disappearing. - Parallel ports? Yes, if the old fashioned hardware type. Those are going away too. - I wonder if an I2c or a PS/2 port could be used. - ethernet would seem to require way too much protocol stack. Besides, it is probably not spare. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 12:54:22 2008 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:54:22 +0100 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <47934E8A.6000706@visible-assets.com> <20080120191342.GR2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <479495FE.9030401@visible-assets.com> Since we've all been talking about gentoo's excessive CPU consumption on the global scale, and the concept of decentralized binary package repositories, does anyone have any decent idea of how such a thing would be modelled in a more-or-less secure fashion? It would be nice to hear some ideas. Now is the time too, since the gentoo council might be reformed shortly. ~/Chris Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > On Jan 20, 2008 11:13 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> So where did you get your compiler from that you used to compile >> everything? Why did you trust that compiler? > > The initial compiler for a Gentoo stage1 install is on the CD, > distributed via the gentoo site (or torrent), and the hash matches > what they say it should be. That's trust. However, it is not > unlikely that the compiler has been trojaned. Every resources can be > hacked with adequate resources applied to such an effort of course... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 15:47:49 2008 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:47:49 -0500 Subject: Concerning OLPC's business plan Message-ID: A thing I found: "What should Google do? Information for Africa." http://chrisblattman.blogspot.com/2008/01/what-should-google-do-information-for.html#links Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 17:16:48 2008 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 12:16:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Jan 22nd NewTLUG meeting: Kubuntu and some of its new tools (reminder) Message-ID: This month's NewTLUG meeting will be held Tues Jan 22nd., at the IBM offices 3600 Steeles Ave E. **Important** This meeting is free and all are welcome, however, all attendees will be required to have a security badge. Badges should be prepared in advance. If you plan to attend, please send your name to Paul (off-list at ), preferably by Monday Jan 21nd. ...and please be sure to return badges to the front reception at the end of the session. Thanks: to Paul for helping NewTLUG not only by arranging for a room and hosting our meetings at IBM but also with looking after the badges. Badges: please email Paul Mora to pre-register Date and Time: Tues Jan 22, 7-10pm Topic: Kubuntu and some of its new tools including the new KDE: Kubuntu is an official derivative of the Ubuntu Linux distribution using the KDE environment instead of GNOME. It is part of the Ubuntu project and uses the same underlying system. Kubuntu and Ubuntu can work alongside each other by installing the ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop packages. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubuntu) KDE (K Desktop Environment) is a free software project which aims to be a powerful system for an easy-to-use desktop environment. The goal of the project is to provide basic desktop functions and applications for daily needs as well as tools and documentation for developers to write stand-alone applications for the system. In this regard the KDE project serves as an umbrella project for many standalone applications and smaller projects that are based on KDE technology. These include KOffice, KDevelop, Amarok, K3b and many others. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDE) Evan Leibovitch will review the later Kubuntu releases and discuss some of the new tools. Q&A: There should be lots of time for questions and answers likely in the recent UU style format, hosted by Colin McGregor Apr?s-meet: After the meeting some will adjourn to a local coffee shop for continued discussion and general world problem solving. Location: IBM offices 3600 Steeles Ave East, north side of Steeles at Pharmacy/Esna Park (between Victoria Park and Warden) http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?mapdata=nGCyq1371PhhgCmx6Z%2b1cDMK7StVSEOC8pv6WLEwpPl4J5csVKolXMC1br3AveG47eAtFWeuZ%2bwJ2KM5Oq7LBuLnoWwdmj0b8XrxuhJWdRt2Mc4gVOIEVqcICHRlLm6XTuuZzJMzAZAf3OoErhbEoEZ9FStAjnRb7vrPmDxfzc6Dkdp3pAlh6ZFovnxcYwyt1e0eUfOZpFdN4rspAMvur8zk2XOMgoEZ6s2G1gxGZI6fILrLIfssN9UqLRPAuYnV84Fbwn7amW8Y%2fM6NeCfvcJVGtRhNNBCahqzxnGwYk6G9JBDVKNwGC7biOuwnI5nkx95wKeq%2brOPhXzRb4XSHbA%3d%3d (sorry for the wrap) Directions: Meet at the front entrance well before 7:00pm (6:30 recommended) to pickup your ID badge. At about 7:00 we'll be escorted to the auditorium. Some provision will be made for anyone arriving a little late. Parking: Free parking is available in the visitor parkade from 6:00pm to 11:00pm. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 18:07:17 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:07:17 -0800 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <479495FE.9030401-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <47934E8A.6000706@visible-assets.com> <20080120191342.GR2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479495FE.9030401@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: On Jan 21, 2008 4:54 AM, Christopher Friedt wrote: > Since we've all been talking about gentoo's excessive CPU consumption on > the global scale, and the concept of decentralized binary package > repositories, does anyone have any decent idea of how such a thing would > be modelled in a more-or-less secure fashion? > > It would be nice to hear some ideas. Now is the time too, since the > gentoo council might be reformed shortly. Take a tip from Debian and APT. Read the specs. Basically, the default install would utilize GPG keys for binary distribution. Or you can add GPG keys later, but that is perhaps dangerous. It has already been done before, so this is nothing new. Is drobbins sick of m$ yet :-) -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 18:13:57 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:13:57 -0500 Subject: Standard serial/parallel ports for new PC In-Reply-To: <47942001.6020805-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <47942001.6020805@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20080121181357.GW2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 20, 2008 at 11:30:57PM -0500, Kevin Cozens wrote: > The one thing my new computer (HP computer with Core 2 Duo processor) > doesn't have is either a serial or parallel port. I know there are USB > adapters to provide these types of ports but they aren't useful to me. I > have some programs which require being able to do bit-bashing on the ports. > I also want to do use the parallel port for interfacing with some > electronic circuits, and I can use it with my old laser printer. What do you actually want to be able to do with the ports? > I would like to get a single board that has a 9-pin serial port compatible > with a standard 8250/16450/16550 chip, and a 25-pin parallel port > compatible with a standard 8255 chip, and that use standard IRQ's for each > of the serial and parallel ports on the board. > > The boards I have found are a in the $60 to close to $100 but seem to share > a single IRQ. Since they do that, I would question their compatability with > the ports found on older computers. Anyone happen to know of a source for > such a board? If I can't get both ports on one board, I could go with just > a parallel port board for now. PCI devices will share an IRQ since that's what PCI does and since there is no reason not to. Since they are level triggered rather than edge triggered (like ISA was) then sharing is no problem. > The board(s) need to be Linux compatible. A board that would work but comes > with some custom Windows driver isn't likely to be useful. The alternative > would be to make one myself but that is likely to be a hassle to interface > with the PCI bus used in the current day machines. Well a USB parallel port should be pretty standard and should look excactly the same to user space as a built in one, so you can bitbang through the /dev/parport# interface whatever you want. The parport device is certainly generic and low level enough that there can't be any reason you should ever want to access the port registers directly. As for serial, there are certainly a number of USB serial ports that work with linux just fine. PCI cards also work for both and they should in general be 16550 compatible for the serial and PCI parallel compatible for the parports. Some are different (like the Digi Neo 2 port serial card) which has an Exar uart with a 64byte FIFO which uses the 'jsm' driver in linux, but works amazingly well, but sure isn't a 16550. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 18:15:33 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:15:33 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <47934E8A.6000706@visible-assets.com> <20080120191342.GR2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080121181533.GX2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 20, 2008 at 11:50:42PM -0800, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > The initial compiler for a Gentoo stage1 install is on the CD, > distributed via the gentoo site (or torrent), and the hash matches > what they say it should be. That's trust. However, it is not > unlikely that the compiler has been trojaned. Every resources can be > hacked with adequate resources applied to such an effort of course... So if you trust a binary compiler from gentoo based on a hash, why would't you trust everything else as binary if it matches the hash from gentoo (if they actually provided such things)? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 18:20:22 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:20:22 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <479495FE.9030401-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <47934E8A.6000706@visible-assets.com> <20080120191342.GR2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479495FE.9030401@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <20080121182022.GY2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 21, 2008 at 01:54:22PM +0100, Christopher Friedt wrote: > Since we've all been talking about gentoo's excessive CPU consumption on > the global scale, and the concept of decentralized binary package > repositories, does anyone have any decent idea of how such a thing would > be modelled in a more-or-less secure fashion? > > It would be nice to hear some ideas. Now is the time too, since the > gentoo council might be reformed shortly. Well Debian provides binaries with both MD5 and SHA1 checksums on the packages, as well as MD5's of each file within the package, and gpg signatures on each package from them. Now you either trust the Debian maintainers or you don't. Similarly with Gentoo, checksum and sign each package when it is made, and then you either trust the Gentoo maintainers or you don't. If you don't then you can't use the source code from them either or their stage1 compiler or anything else, since you have no reason to trust one if you don't trust the other, unless you personally verify every line of code, and check the binary of the compiler instruction for instruction, which I don't believe ANY Gentoo user has done. So essentially this comes down to having nothing to do with security and trust but simply a change in philosophy away from the idea that everyone should be compiling everything themselves with random options enables along with random compiler flags. The result is saved time for installing software, better testing (since lots of people will test the same configuration and build), and less waste. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 18:23:01 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:23:01 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080119235727.GG3638@adb.ca> <20080120185343.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080120222338.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080121182301.GZ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 21, 2008 at 02:19:14AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > It depends what you mean by "edit". Most forms of editing rewrite the > whole file. Directories and formal databases are significant exceptions. Depends on the program. I know mutt for example rewrites mbox files by only rewriting from the point of the change, which helps a lot since most of the time people are making most of the mail changes to the newest messages which are the last ones in the mbox file. I believe a number of programs do in place changes. Databases are probably the biggest users of in place edits though. With the compressed file system though your database would become useless and the other programs would not gain anything from their efficient designs. You would always be rewriting everything. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 18:54:13 2008 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:54:13 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <20080120222338.GV2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080119235727.GG3638@adb.ca> <20080120185343.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080120222338.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080121185413.GC7124@adb.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > ... It's a > compromise. You also need quite a bit of CPU power to compress files > fast enough to actually write faster than you could without compression. Often the compromise is predicated more on wanting/needing to fit more data than will fit uncompressed on the media. The tradeoff of more CPU time to less physical I/O is less of an obvious win and less likely to drive a decision for filesystem compression. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 19:06:30 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:06:30 -0800 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <20080121181533.GX2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <47934E8A.6000706@visible-assets.com> <20080120191342.GR2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080121181533.GX2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Jan 21, 2008 10:15 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > So if you trust a binary compiler from gentoo based on a hash, why > would't you trust everything else as binary if it matches the hash from > gentoo (if they actually provided such things)? It is not just about a hash, and gentoo doesn't provide all the binaries -- third parties, who I don't trust, provide them. So, of course I would not trust them. If gentoo were to do binary distribution, they should follow the various other binary distros and utilize GPG and hashes... -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 19:08:01 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:08:01 -0800 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: <20080121182022.GY2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <47934E8A.6000706@visible-assets.com> <20080120191342.GR2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479495FE.9030401@visible-assets.com> <20080121182022.GY2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Jan 21, 2008 10:20 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > So essentially this comes down to having nothing to do with security and > trust but simply a change in philosophy away from the idea that everyone > should be compiling everything themselves with random options enables > along with random compiler flags. The result is saved time for > installing software, better testing (since lots of people will test the > same configuration and build), and less waste. Gentoo does not offer a binary of every source package, so your argument appears moot... -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 19:09:22 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:09:22 -0800 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <20080121185413.GC7124-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080119235727.GG3638@adb.ca> <20080120185343.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080120222338.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080121185413.GC7124@adb.ca> Message-ID: On Jan 21, 2008 10:54 AM, Anthony de Boer wrote: > Often the compromise is predicated more on wanting/needing to fit more > data than will fit uncompressed on the media. The tradeoff of more CPU > time to less physical I/O is less of an obvious win and less likely to > drive a decision for filesystem compression. Ubuntu installer can fit on one CD thanks to compression :-) -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 19:31:59 2008 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:31:59 -0500 Subject: script question Message-ID: <1200943919.5591.17.camel@jims-laptop> If I am writing a script and there is a command to run a program in the script that accepts a yes or no answer how do I supply that answer in the script? Thanks, Jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 19:36:10 2008 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:36:10 -0500 Subject: script question In-Reply-To: <1200943919.5591.17.camel@jims-laptop> References: <1200943919.5591.17.camel@jims-laptop> Message-ID: <20080121193610.GA11790@watson-wilson.ca> echo "yes" | myscript.sh -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 7 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 21:11:05 2008 From: tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slackrat) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:11:05 +0100 Subject: script question In-Reply-To: <1200943919.5591.17.camel@jims-laptop> (jim's message of "Mon\, 21 Jan 2008 14\:31\:59 -0500") References: <1200943919.5591.17.camel@jims-laptop> Message-ID: <8763xmx4t2.fsf@azurservers.com> jim a ?crit profondement: | If I am writing a script and there is a command to run a program in the | script that accepts a yes or no answer how do I supply that answer in | the script? | Thanks, | Jim #!/bin/bash echo -n "Enter yes or no > " read yesno echo "yesno is $yesno" if [ $yesno = "yes" ] ; then echo "You input yes" # do something - here get uptime let upSeconds="$(awk '{ print $1 }' /proc/uptime | cut -f1 -d ".")" let secs=$((${upSeconds}%60)) let mins=$((${upSeconds}/60%60)) let hours=$((${upSeconds}/3600%24)) let days=$((${upSeconds}/86400)) if [ "${days}" -ne "0" ] then echo -n "${days} days" fi echo -n " ${hours}:${mins}" else # do something else - here just echo response echo "You input no" fi -- SlackRat - 4Q to Reply -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 23:06:49 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:06:49 -0500 Subject: Gentoo desktop? In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0801101236x2735a823m9941646b34849210@mail.gmail.com> <47934E8A.6000706@visible-assets.com> <20080120191342.GR2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479495FE.9030401@visible-assets.com> <20080121182022.GY2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080121230649.GA2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 21, 2008 at 11:08:01AM -0800, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > On Jan 21, 2008 10:20 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > So essentially this comes down to having nothing to do with security and > > trust but simply a change in philosophy away from the idea that everyone > > should be compiling everything themselves with random options enables > > along with random compiler flags. The result is saved time for > > installing software, better testing (since lots of people will test the > > same configuration and build), and less waste. > > Gentoo does not offer a binary of every source package, so your > argument appears moot... It was about what to do if they were going to do so. After all I still believe the fact they don't is one of the fundamental flaws in Gentoo. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 00:31:29 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:31:29 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <20080117153719.GB2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4788EC82.1010909@chrisaitken.net> <20080114150939.GU2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <478D2D32.5000700@chrisaitken.net> <20080117153719.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <47953961.9000806@chrisaitken.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 05:01:22PM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > >> I tried disabling the onboard card in the BIOS - didn't affect much - >> alsamixer stills sees the Intel card. I did notice a Creative Labs card >> in the PCI Devices section od f the BIOS though. >> > > Well it turns out that even after about 2 years of argueing and > complaining about it, no one made the package. Apparently it is going > into the next release. > > In the mean time the ubuntustudio people packaged it, and someone is > hosting the package as well. > > So for gutsy you can add this to your sources.list and then get > alsa-firmware: > > deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/tsmithe/ubuntu gutsy multiverse > I add that line to /etc/apt/sources.list ? And then sudo apt-get install alsa-firmware? Chris > For more options and details see this bug report: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/147320 > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 00:47:41 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:47:41 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <47953961.9000806-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4788EC82.1010909@chrisaitken.net> <20080114150939.GU2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <478D2D32.5000700@chrisaitken.net> <20080117153719.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47953961.9000806@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080122004741.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 21, 2008 at 07:31:29PM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > I add that line to /etc/apt/sources.list ? > > And then sudo apt-get install alsa-firmware? sudo apt-get update before the install. Otherwise yes. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 01:08:13 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:08:13 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <20080122004741.GB2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4788EC82.1010909@chrisaitken.net> <20080114150939.GU2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <478D2D32.5000700@chrisaitken.net> <20080117153719.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47953961.9000806@chrisaitken.net> <20080122004741.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <479541FD.5020409@chrisaitken.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 21, 2008 at 07:31:29PM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > >> I add that line to /etc/apt/sources.list ? >> Done. >> And then sudo apt-get install alsa-firmware? >> > > sudo apt-get update before the install. > Okay - done. chris at cpc:~$ sudo apt-get install alsa-firmware Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done E: Couldn't find package alsa-firmware chris at cpc:~$ > Otherwise yes. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 01:19:49 2008 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:19:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: A video demo of MythTV Message-ID: <366466.71169.qm@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Small note, I ran across the following little video on MythTV: http://revision3.com/systm/mythtv/ The video is slightly dated in the following ways: - The pcHDTV-3000 TV tuner card has now be replaced by the pcHDTV-5500 TV tuner card. - The Zap2it Labs TV listing service has been shut down, and replaced by a service from Schedules Direct. - KnoppMyth is no longer the only Linux distribution specifically to support the set-up/install of MythTV (I am also aware of Mythdora and Mythbuntu). (to note my biases here I started with KnoppMyth, as it was the only game in town at the time. I have looked at Mythdora / Mythbuntu, they are nice, but not nice enough to make me change.). A features that I am fond of that were not mentioned in the video include: - auto skipping commercials - the ability to change the menu look / appearance. Still, issues aside, a good video. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 04:22:10 2008 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 23:22:10 -0500 Subject: Standard serial/parallel ports for new PC In-Reply-To: <47943699.4010708-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <47942001.6020805@ve3syb.ca> <47943699.4010708@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <47956F72.5050807@ve3syb.ca> ron wrote: > You may want to check out the products on www.lavalink.com. They have > combo boards as well as parallel and serial boards. They state under > Operating Systems - Linux 2.4+. Thanks for mentioning them. I haven't thought about that company in a long time. Being able to deal with a local company would be good as it avoids a lot of cross-border issues. The combo board sounds promising and the price is around the prices I've been seeing on some other boards. It is stated as being 16550 compatible on the serial port side. No indication about any hardware compatability on the parallel port side. I'll have to ask them if its 8255 compatible or not. The board uses a single IRQ like the other boards I've seen. This is different from the old days where the serial and parallel port combo boards could generate different IRQ's. The IRQ issue shouldn't be a problem if the board is compatible with the older I/O chips. I would only expect to need any IRQ's from the board when using the serial port. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 05:10:27 2008 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 00:10:27 -0500 Subject: Phisher of the Week In-Reply-To: <47935E04.8000909-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4749.99.232.68.237.1196731631.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <47935E04.8000909@primus.ca> Message-ID: <47957AC3.6040701@primus.ca> I move to nominate this humourous chap "Spammer of the Week" for lightening the load with a little levity... Subject: Top Notch meds for you! From: pilar-MGz/fXnZh9+sTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Date: Mon, January 21, 2008 5:18 am Priority: Normal Message Body: the quicker pecker upper Not too shabby for first thing Monday morning. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 06:34:39 2008 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 01:34:39 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <479541FD.5020409-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4788EC82.1010909@chrisaitken.net> <20080114150939.GU2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <478D2D32.5000700@chrisaitken.net> <20080117153719.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47953961.9000806@chrisaitken.net> <20080122004741.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479541FD.5020409@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <47958E7F.7060001@primus.ca> Christopher Aitken wrote: > chris at cpc:~$ sudo apt-get install alsa-firmware > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done > E: Couldn't find package alsa-firmware You might be more comfortable using Synaptic instead of the CLI. Nevertheless, at the command line, try: sudo apt-get install alsa-firmware-loaders If you were in the Synaptic GUI, you would also see some other interesting packages listed. Such as: alsa-base (likely already marked as installed?) alsamixergui alsa-source alsa-tools alsa-tools-gui alsa-utils etc and, if you select (click/highlight) a package, you would see a brief description of what it does. If you choose to install something that has dependencies, Synaptic will explain what they are and ask your permission before proceeding. Len knows how to get the same info using apt-get at the root prompt. But you'll probably learn faster and get more done if you pull down Ubuntu's System menu, scroll to Administration, and click Synaptic Package Manager. Initially, it will urge you to hit Reload, Mark All Upgrades, and Apply. Not as daunting as it may appear. I would urge you to pull down Synaptic's Help menu and, at least, read the Quick Intro. Synaptic is just one of apt-get's pretty faces. The geek in you can learn apt-get at leisure. I'm fairly sure you just want to make some cheerful noises... soon. Try it out. No obligation. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 07:41:43 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:41:43 +0300 Subject: Apache on chroot Message-ID: Hi pals, I am attempting to set up apache on chroot. Ideally, I would love to use rpm binary, instead of compiling it from source - maintainability being important. The problem is, it require way to many other binaries. For example, see below:- /bin/mv is needed by httpd-2.2.3-11.el5.centos.x86_64 /bin/rm is needed by httpd-2.2.3-11.el5.centos.x86_64 /bin/sh is needed by httpd-2.2.3-11.el5.centos.x86_64 libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.3)(64bit) is needed by httpd-2.2.3-11.el5.centos.x86_64 Now, I would rather not have like the above binaries. Not only because it beat the purpose of chroot, but it will force me to solve way too may dependency hells. Does anyone know of a better way to accomplish this task? I would appreciate any suggestion or a pointer. I found the last dependency really annoying. Its also appear when I compile from source. What flag can I use on apache configure script to avoid the last command? Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 10:13:17 2008 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 05:13:17 -0500 Subject: script question In-Reply-To: <20080121193610.GA11790-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <1200943919.5591.17.camel@jims-laptop> <20080121193610.GA11790@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <1200996797.5646.20.camel@jims-laptop> Thanks Neil, There are actually two program calls in the script that require a yes answer. How would I handle that? ie in the script below both ffmpeg commands want a yes answer. #!/bin/bash ffmpeg -i barb_movie.mov -pass 1 -target ntsc-dvd -aspect 16:9 barb_vid.mpg ffmpeg -i barb_movie.mov -pass 2 -target ntsc-dvd -aspect 16:9 barb_vid.mpg dvdauthor -o dvd/ -t barb_vid.mpg dvdauthor -o dvd/ -T mkisofs -dvd-video -o dvd.iso dvd/ Thanks, Jim On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 14:36 -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > echo "yes" | myscript.sh > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 14:32:33 2008 From: ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org (Raymond J. Payne) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:32:33 -0500 Subject: PST to EML converter References: <20071118215602.3354.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <200711181800.37241.jamon.camisso@utoronto.ca> <4741D28C.90900@chrisaitken.net> <20071120200929.GA1298@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <473c25250711210458h1a080144i88f4444a9f10f8de@mail.gmail.com> <20071121140532.GM1298@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <473c25250711210657n71c526b4xc731046abadf0b5a@mail.gmail.com> <20071122105142.GA9427@localhost> <7ac602420711221044h1d9354d4t2eeed83d14468dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950271071DE@jack.pcrepairs.com> I'm trying to find a way on a Linux PC to convert old PST files to EML. As it stands I can only find programs that will work on Windows. Has anyone come across anything Linux based that works to convert email? Thanks, Ray -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 14:52:13 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:52:13 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <479541FD.5020409-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4788EC82.1010909@chrisaitken.net> <20080114150939.GU2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <478D2D32.5000700@chrisaitken.net> <20080117153719.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47953961.9000806@chrisaitken.net> <20080122004741.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479541FD.5020409@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080122145213.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 21, 2008 at 08:08:13PM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >On Mon, Jan 21, 2008 at 07:31:29PM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > > > >>I add that line to /etc/apt/sources.list ? > >> > Done. > >>And then sudo apt-get install alsa-firmware? > >> > > > >sudo apt-get update before the install. > > > Okay - done. > > chris at cpc:~$ sudo apt-get install alsa-firmware > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree > Reading state information... Done > E: Couldn't find package alsa-firmware > chris at cpc:~$ I just checked the archive, they moved it. Change multiverse to main in sources.list for the line, then it should find it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 14:55:05 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:55:05 -0500 Subject: PST to EML converter In-Reply-To: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950271071DE-CLNy6lqpgzNGTIAK+MOlGtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20071118215602.3354.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <200711181800.37241.jamon.camisso@utoronto.ca> <4741D28C.90900@chrisaitken.net> <20071120200929.GA1298@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <473c25250711210458h1a080144i88f4444a9f10f8de@mail.gmail.com> <20071121140532.GM1298@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <473c25250711210657n71c526b4xc731046abadf0b5a@mail.gmail.com> <20071122105142.GA9427@localhost> <7ac602420711221044h1d9354d4t2eeed83d14468dc@mail.gmail.com> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950271071DE@jack.pcrepairs.com> Message-ID: <20080122145505.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 09:32:33AM -0500, Raymond J. Payne wrote: > I'm trying to find a way on a Linux PC to convert old PST files to EML. > As it stands I can only find programs that will work on Windows. Has > anyone come across anything Linux based that works to convert email? What is PST and what is EML? Random undefined acronyms won't get you much help. After all I don't know what timezone EML is so I can't help you convert Pacific Standard Time to whatever EML is. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 14:56:20 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:56:20 -0500 Subject: Standard serial/parallel ports for new PC In-Reply-To: <47956F72.5050807-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <47942001.6020805@ve3syb.ca> <47943699.4010708@sympatico.ca> <47956F72.5050807@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20080122145620.GE2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 21, 2008 at 11:22:10PM -0500, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Thanks for mentioning them. I haven't thought about that company in a long > time. Being able to deal with a local company would be good as it avoids a > lot of cross-border issues. > > The combo board sounds promising and the price is around the prices I've > been seeing on some other boards. It is stated as being 16550 compatible on > the serial port side. No indication about any hardware compatability on the > parallel port side. I'll have to ask them if its 8255 compatible or not. > > The board uses a single IRQ like the other boards I've seen. This is > different from the old days where the serial and parallel port combo boards > could generate different IRQ's. The IRQ issue shouldn't be a problem if the > board is compatible with the older I/O chips. I would only expect to need > any IRQ's from the board when using the serial port. Old boards generated seperate IRQs since ISA didn't do shared IRQs. New boards generate one IRQ since PCI does share IRQs. Much better design we have now. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 14:58:08 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:58:08 -0500 Subject: A video demo of MythTV In-Reply-To: <366466.71169.qm-iE2/U85ktn6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <366466.71169.qm@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080122145808.GF2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 21, 2008 at 08:19:49PM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > Small note, > > I ran across the following little video on MythTV: > > http://revision3.com/systm/mythtv/ > > The video is slightly dated in the following ways: > > - The pcHDTV-3000 TV tuner card has now be replaced by > the pcHDTV-5500 TV tuner card. > > - The Zap2it Labs TV listing service has been shut > down, and replaced by a service from Schedules Direct. > > - KnoppMyth is no longer the only Linux distribution > specifically to support the set-up/install of MythTV > (I am also aware of Mythdora and Mythbuntu). (to note > my biases here I started with KnoppMyth, as it was the > only game in town at the time. I have looked at > Mythdora / Mythbuntu, they are nice, but not nice > enough to make me change.). > > A features that I am fond of that were not mentioned > in the video include: > > - auto skipping commercials I find the commercial flagging handy, although it frequently makes mistakes. The auto skipping is hence useless since you can't rely on the commercials being flagged properly. > - the ability to change the menu look / appearance. Well some of them look pretty, but the menus could probably use an overhaul by someone with a clue about interface design. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 15:21:04 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:21:04 -0500 Subject: Standard serial/parallel ports for new PC In-Reply-To: <47956F72.5050807-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <47942001.6020805@ve3syb.ca> <47943699.4010708@sympatico.ca> <47956F72.5050807@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <479609E0.7080300@rogers.com> Kevin Cozens wrote: > The board uses a single IRQ like the other boards I've seen. This is > different from the old days where the serial and parallel port combo > boards could generate different IRQ's. The IRQ issue shouldn't be a > problem if the board is compatible with the older I/O chips. I would > only expect to need any IRQ's from the board when using the serial port. > That single IRQ per device is an artifact of the poor design of the original IBM PC, which used edge triggered interupts, that made it difficult for them to share. All other computers I've worked on used level triggered interupts, which could easily be shared. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 15:22:12 2008 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:22:12 -0500 Subject: PST to EML converter In-Reply-To: <20080122145505.GD2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20071118215602.3354.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950271071DE@jack.pcrepairs.com> <20080122145505.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200801221022.12576.glayng@sympatico.ca> PST would be the e-mail file format for Microsoft (spit) Outbreak. I think it stands for Patently Silly Text. :P On Tuesday 22 January 2008 09:55, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 09:32:33AM -0500, Raymond J. Payne wrote: > > I'm trying to find a way on a Linux PC to convert old PST files to EML. > > As it stands I can only find programs that will work on Windows. Has > > anyone come across anything Linux based that works to convert email? > > What is PST and what is EML? > > Random undefined acronyms won't get you much help. > > After all I don't know what timezone EML is so I can't help you convert > Pacific Standard Time to whatever EML is. :) > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- there's no place like 127.0.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 15:38:54 2008 From: ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org (Raymond J. Payne) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:38:54 -0500 Subject: PST to EML converter References: <20071118215602.3354.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <200711181800.37241.jamon.camisso@utoronto.ca> <4741D28C.90900@chrisaitken.net> <20071120200929.GA1298@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <473c25250711210458h1a080144i88f4444a9f10f8de@mail.gmail.com> <20071121140532.GM1298@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <473c25250711210657n71c526b4xc731046abadf0b5a@mail.gmail.com> <20071122105142.GA9427@localhost> <7ac602420711221044h1d9354d4t2eeed83d14468dc@mail.gmail.com> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950271071DE@jack.pcrepairs.com> <20080122145505.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950271071E0@jack.pcrepairs.com> Well, I did say email, so PST is the Microsoft proprietary mail format. EML is RFC-2822 mail. I didn't think within email they were so random, but perhaps I'm just too focused on email at the moment. :) -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lennart Sorensen Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 9:55 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: PST to EML converter On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 09:32:33AM -0500, Raymond J. Payne wrote: > I'm trying to find a way on a Linux PC to convert old PST files to EML. > As it stands I can only find programs that will work on Windows. Has > anyone come across anything Linux based that works to convert email? What is PST and what is EML? Random undefined acronyms won't get you much help. After all I don't know what timezone EML is so I can't help you convert Pacific Standard Time to whatever EML is. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 17:31:44 2008 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:31:44 -0500 Subject: PST to EML converter In-Reply-To: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950271071DE-CLNy6lqpgzNGTIAK+MOlGtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20071118215602.3354.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <200711181800.37241.jamon.camisso@utoronto.ca> <4741D28C.90900@chrisaitken.net> <20071120200929.GA1298@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <473c25250711210458h1a080144i88f4444a9f10f8de@mail.gmail.com> <20071121140532.GM1298@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <473c25250711210657n71c526b4xc731046abadf0b5a@mail.gmail.com> <20071122105142.GA9427@localhost> <7ac602420711221044h1d9354d4t2eeed83d14468dc@mail.gmail.com> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950271071DE@jack.pcrepairs.com> Message-ID: > Subject: [TLUG]: PST to EML converter > Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:32:33 -0500 > From: ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > I'm trying to find a way on a Linux PC to convert old PST files to EML. > As it stands I can only find programs that will work on Windows. Has > anyone come across anything Linux based that works to convert email? > > Thanks, > > Ray > You may want to have a look at http://alioth.debian.org/projects/libpst/. I was able to use this script to convert pts files to mbox. Not sure what EML is. Hope this helps any. Martin Duclos _________________________________________________________________ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 18:09:59 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:09:59 -0500 Subject: PST to EML converter In-Reply-To: References: <200711181800.37241.jamon.camisso@utoronto.ca> <4741D28C.90900@chrisaitken.net> <20071120200929.GA1298@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <473c25250711210458h1a080144i88f4444a9f10f8de@mail.gmail.com> <20071121140532.GM1298@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <473c25250711210657n71c526b4xc731046abadf0b5a@mail.gmail.com> <20071122105142.GA9427@localhost> <7ac602420711221044h1d9354d4t2eeed83d14468dc@mail.gmail.com> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950271071DE@jack.pcrepairs.com> Message-ID: <20080122180959.GG2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 12:31:44PM -0500, Martin Duclos wrote: > You may want to have a look at http://alioth.debian.org/projects/libpst/. I was able to use this script to convert pts files to mbox. Not sure what EML is. Hope this helps any. > Martin Duclos How about this one: Package: readpst Priority: optional Section: utils Installed-Size: 192 Maintainer: Joe Nahmias Architecture: i386 Source: libpst Version: 0.5.1-1 Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.2.ds1-4) Filename: pool/main/libp/libpst/readpst_0.5.1-1_i386.deb Size: 55764 MD5sum: 37d2a85b5f88edf8dd6daf61a6fe2b94 SHA1: dbada4895328a0b773d9f22439c95a4a927c1858 SHA256: bab3bca0f113deb70aa4785a928252b57c538d23df3be9fbe7c193db921ec7f7 Description: Converts Outlook PST files to mbox and others ReadPST is an application that can take a Microsoft Outlook PST (Personal Folders) file and convert it into mbox, kmail, its own recursive format, or separate each email into its own file. . It can currently handle emails, folders and most contacts. Tag: implemented-in::c, interface::commandline, role::program, scope::utility, use::converting, works-with::mail Hmm, I see it uses libpst so I guess that's the same as you suggested. Well at least Debian has a package for it then. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 18:29:31 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:29:31 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <20080122145213.GC2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4788EC82.1010909@chrisaitken.net> <20080114150939.GU2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <478D2D32.5000700@chrisaitken.net> <20080117153719.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47953961.9000806@chrisaitken.net> <20080122004741.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479541FD.5020409@chrisaitken.net> <20080122145213.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4796360B.6040809@chrisaitken.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I just checked the archive, they moved it. Change multiverse to main in > sources.list for the line, then it should find it. > Okay, I changed that, then I ran sudo apt-get update, then installed alsa-firmware. I also tried to install alsa-base, alsa-source, alsa-tools, and alsa-utils, but some of them were already there in their newest version. Between each install I would run alsamixer to see if the card was detected - it was not. Is there any command I have to run to restart any service? Chris > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 18:44:20 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:44:20 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <4796360B.6040809-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4788EC82.1010909@chrisaitken.net> <20080114150939.GU2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <478D2D32.5000700@chrisaitken.net> <20080117153719.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47953961.9000806@chrisaitken.net> <20080122004741.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479541FD.5020409@chrisaitken.net> <20080122145213.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4796360B.6040809@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080122184420.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 01:29:31PM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > >I just checked the archive, they moved it. Change multiverse to main in > >sources.list for the line, then it should find it. > > > Okay, I changed that, then I ran sudo apt-get update, then installed > alsa-firmware. I also tried to install alsa-base, alsa-source, > alsa-tools, and alsa-utils, but some of them were already there in their > newest version. Between each install I would run alsamixer to see if the > card was detected - it was not. Is there any command I have to run to > restart any service? Might have to unload and reload the module for the card, since I suspect that is when the firmware is loaded. The simple solution would be to just reboot of course but you don't have to. If you find the module name lsmod |grep emu (I think the driver is emu something) then do modprobe -r snd-emu... (whatever you found) then udevtrigger to reload drivers for any present hardware not already handled. Hopefully the driver will find the firmware and load it automatically this time. Certainly the ivtv drivers I have that use firmware files behave that way. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kmastin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 19:21:59 2008 From: kmastin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (keith) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:21:59 -0500 Subject: OT: legal obligations In-Reply-To: <478E5009.20904-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <478E5009.20904@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1201029719.14108.36.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2008-16-01 at 13:42 -0500, John McGregor wrote: > Hi Folk, > I repair PCs for a living and since most members of the public > think that a back up is something you do when you put a car in reverse, > this often entails digging through an old hard drive trying to recover > files. I was doing just that on the weekend when news of the recent > arrests for child porn activities were announced. This got me to > wondering what my, and other computer techs', obligations are if we find > illegal content when doing a similar search? Thoughts? > > John In the case of child porn, I'm pretty sure that a detective or prosecutor would act on the assumption that if you find this stuff on a system in your immediate physical possession, you are in possession of it; and if you don't report it then you are party to the offense. There is no legal protection except for reporting it. As for software, including operating systems, programs, applications or downloaded files, you would only be obligated to report it's existence if you _*knew*_ that a copyright offense is being committed (i.e.- that the software is being used in contravention of copyright laws). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 20:30:39 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:30:39 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <20080122184420.GH2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4788EC82.1010909@chrisaitken.net> <20080114150939.GU2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <478D2D32.5000700@chrisaitken.net> <20080117153719.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47953961.9000806@chrisaitken.net> <20080122004741.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479541FD.5020409@chrisaitken.net> <20080122145213.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4796360B.6040809@chrisaitken.net> <20080122184420.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4796526F.5000504@chrisaitken.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 01:29:31PM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > >> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> >> >>> I just checked the archive, they moved it. Change multiverse to main in >>> sources.list for the line, then it should find it. >>> >>> >> Okay, I changed that, then I ran sudo apt-get update, then installed >> alsa-firmware. I also tried to install alsa-base, alsa-source, >> alsa-tools, and alsa-utils, but some of them were already there in their >> newest version. Between each install I would run alsamixer to see if the >> card was detected - it was not. Is there any command I have to run to >> restart any service? >> > > Might have to unload and reload the module for the card, since I suspect > that is when the firmware is loaded. > > The simple solution would be to just reboot of course but you don't have > to. > Actually, I did. I didn't want to mention it because I was afraid it would sound to Microsoftish. After I rebooted I ran alsamixer - the old card is still the only one listed. Maybe it sees the card but I just don't know how to get alsamixer to show it. Chris > If you find the module name > lsmod |grep emu (I think the driver is emu something) > > then do > modprobe -r snd-emu... (whatever you found) > > then > udevtrigger > to reload drivers for any present hardware not already handled. > > Hopefully the driver will find the firmware and load it automatically > this time. Certainly the ivtv drivers I have that use firmware files > behave that way. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 20:34:36 2008 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:34:36 -0500 Subject: redundant-servers question Message-ID: <4796535C.8000407@gmail.com> I have servers I need to make redundant. Live PC and a backup PC, both exactly the same hardware. Servers are Gentoo with RAID1. If I have any problems with any of the live servers then I pull the network plug, and drop that network cable into its exact-copy backup server. I thought about using rsync, to keep the backup servers the same as the live servers. The weak point is the rsync complexity. If I miss even one important file for rsync, then it renders the whole solution almost useless. (ie. with 1000% confidence, I should be able to remove the live server at any time, and replace it with the backup.) As well, I would have to do a worst-case scenario test..ie..replace a live server with the backup. I would much prefer to use mdadm's rebuilding feature and hot-swapping drives. (once per 24 hours, or as needed) LIVE PC. RAID1 with hotswap 2 drives.DRIVE-A and DRIVE-B BACKUP PC with 1 hotswap drive DRIVE-C. Everyday, hotswap exchange DRIVE-B and DRIVE-C. fdisk /dev/DRIVE-B, and let mdadm rebuild it. Leave the working backup in the backup PC. Using this method, I am virtually guaranteed that the backup servers are exactly the same as the live servers. Only problem with this solution, is that every day I am breaking and rebuilding the raid. With no room for errors. A LOT more risky than just letting the RAID1 run alone. Any ideas about this? TIA! /teddy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 20:40:29 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:40:29 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <4796526F.5000504-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080114150939.GU2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <478D2D32.5000700@chrisaitken.net> <20080117153719.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47953961.9000806@chrisaitken.net> <20080122004741.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479541FD.5020409@chrisaitken.net> <20080122145213.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4796360B.6040809@chrisaitken.net> <20080122184420.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4796526F.5000504@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080122204029.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 03:30:39PM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > Actually, I did. I didn't want to mention it because I was afraid it > would sound to Microsoftish. > > After I rebooted I ran alsamixer - the old card is still the only one > listed. Maybe it sees the card but I just don't know how to get > alsamixer to show it. alsamixer shows the first card by default. Check /proc/asound/cards to get a list. If it is there, you should be able to tell alsamixer to look at the second card. You can also add module options to set the index number on each card if you want the EMU first. What does dmesg say about sound cards if anything? Certainly an onboard AC97 won't show much. Perhaps the EMU shows a bit more. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 20:45:19 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:45:19 -0500 Subject: redundant-servers question In-Reply-To: <4796535C.8000407-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4796535C.8000407@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080122204519.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 03:34:36PM -0500, teddy mills wrote: > > I have servers I need to make redundant. > Live PC and a backup PC, both exactly the same hardware. > Servers are Gentoo with RAID1. > > If I have any problems with any of the live servers then I pull the > network plug, and drop that network cable into its exact-copy backup server. > > I thought about using rsync, to keep the backup servers the same as the > live servers. > The weak point is the rsync complexity. If I miss even one important > file for rsync, then it renders the whole solution almost useless. > (ie. with 1000% confidence, I should be able to remove the live server > at any time, and replace it with the backup.) > As well, I would have to do a worst-case scenario test..ie..replace a > live server with the backup. > > I would much prefer to use mdadm's rebuilding feature and hot-swapping > drives. (once per 24 hours, or as needed) > > LIVE PC. > RAID1 with hotswap 2 drives.DRIVE-A and DRIVE-B > > BACKUP PC with 1 hotswap drive DRIVE-C. > > Everyday, hotswap exchange DRIVE-B and DRIVE-C. > fdisk /dev/DRIVE-B, and let mdadm rebuild it. > Leave the working backup in the backup PC. > > Using this method, I am virtually guaranteed that the backup servers are > exactly the same as the live servers. > Only problem with this solution, is that every day I am breaking and > rebuilding the raid. > With no room for errors. A LOT more risky than just letting the RAID1 > run alone. Well you do realize raid1 isn't limited to just 2 drives right? You could leave the 2 disks in the raid alone, and add a 3rd mirror (at least as far as I know) that you are swapping. I think I would personally prefer to just make sure my rsync works. You could do the rsync, then take the disk out of the backup server and connect it on the live server and do a diff between the drives to see that all the files are the same (of course if the live server is doing work a few files might still be changing). Replication is a very hard problem to solve. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 20:58:31 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:58:31 -0500 Subject: redundant-servers question In-Reply-To: <4796535C.8000407-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4796535C.8000407@gmail.com> Message-ID: <479658F7.5000903@dinamis.com> teddy mills wrote: > > I have servers I need to make redundant. > Live PC and a backup PC, both exactly the same hardware. > Servers are Gentoo with RAID1. > > If I have any problems with any of the live servers then I pull the > network plug, and drop that network cable into its exact-copy backup > server. [snip] > Any ideas about this? -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 21:06:00 2008 From: asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Asaf Maruf) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:06:00 -0500 Subject: Large memory support in Linux Message-ID: <49e826e90801221306p6b54554dr4bd28c210c05eb6@mail.gmail.com> Hello What is the maximum memory supported by the current Linux kernel? Will i have to use the HUGEMEM kernel for a large memory configuration of 64G+ or 128G+. Thanks Asaf -- "I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." - Richard P. Feynman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 21:16:39 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:16:39 -0500 Subject: Large memory support in Linux In-Reply-To: <49e826e90801221306p6b54554dr4bd28c210c05eb6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49e826e90801221306p6b54554dr4bd28c210c05eb6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080122211639.GK2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 04:06:00PM -0500, Asaf Maruf wrote: > Hello > > What is the maximum memory supported by the current Linux kernel? Will i > have to use the HUGEMEM kernel for a large memory configuration of 64G+ or > 128G+. If you use x86 (i386-i686/k7/etc) then you need HIGHMEM4GB if you have more than 900MB, you need HIGHMEM64GB if you have more than about 3GB ram (basically if you have any memory mapped higher than 4GB address). x86 32bit can't addres more than 64GB no matter what you do. If you run amd64 (x86_64) then you don't have to worry about it. Maximum address range is at least 40bit on Opterons, while at least some Xeon's were limited to 36bit (64GB). Not sure what the current physical address range on the modern Xeons is now. I see IBM says one of their Xeon servers can run 512GB so that would be at least 39bit. So if the machine is 64bit capable, and can accept that much ram, then 32bit linux with HIGHMEM64G can use about 63GB of the ram. 64bit linux can use all of it with the standard config, since it doesn't have any settings for memory space. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 21:58:43 2008 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:58:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: shredding files on a flash drive References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080119235727.GG3638@adb.ca> <20080120185343.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080120222338.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080121185413.GC7124@adb.ca> Message-ID: Use wipe(1) with suitable options and hope for the device not to use the wear balancing mechanism OR make the entire device a single file (mountable FS image, encrypted), and wipe that. This second option should work even if the wear balancing works. wipe(1) is very configurable. Also reading the Guttmann paper on file wiping is a must step imho. Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 22:01:43 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:01:43 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <20080122204029.GI2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080114150939.GU2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <478D2D32.5000700@chrisaitken.net> <20080117153719.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47953961.9000806@chrisaitken.net> <20080122004741.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479541FD.5020409@chrisaitken.net> <20080122145213.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4796360B.6040809@chrisaitken.net> <20080122184420.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4796526F.5000504@chrisaitken.net> <20080122204029.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <479667C7.3000900@chrisaitken.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 03:30:39PM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > >> Actually, I did. I didn't want to mention it because I was afraid it >> would sound to Microsoftish. >> >> After I rebooted I ran alsamixer - the old card is still the only one >> listed. Maybe it sees the card but I just don't know how to get >> alsamixer to show it. >> > > alsamixer shows the first card by default. Check /proc/asound/cards to > get a list. If it is there, you should be able to tell alsamixer to > It's still not showing up: chris at cpc:~$ cat /proc/asound/cards 0 [I82801BAICH2 ]: ICH - Intel 82801BA-ICH2 Intel 82801BA-ICH2 with AD1885 at irq 20 chris at cpc:~$ > look at the second card. You can also add module options to set the > index number on each card if you want the EMU first. > > What does dmesg say about sound cards if anything? Certainly an onboard > Okay, here is where the emu stuff starts. I'm assuming this means that at least I don't have to open the computer to reseat the card... [ 51.749233] emu1010: Special config. [ 51.749322] emu1010: EMU_HANA_ID=0x7f [ 52.654513] firmware: emu/hana.fw not found. Err=-2 [ 52.654527] emu1010: Loading Hana Firmware file emu/hana.fw failed [ 52.658856] ACPI: PCI interrupt for device 0000:02:0a.0 disabled [ 52.658891] EMU10K1_Audigy: probe of 0000:02:0a.0 failed with error -2 [ 52.659228] PCI: Enabling device 0000:00:1f.5 (0004 -> 0005) [ 52.659252] ACPI: PCI Interrupt 0000:00:1f.5[B] -> GSI 17 (level, low) -> IRQ 20 [ 52.659291] PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1f.5 to 64 [ 53.280637] intel8x0_measure_ac97_clock: measured 55945 usecs [ 53.280649] intel8x0: clocking to 41155 [ 54.094968] loop: module loaded [ 54.136195] lp0: using parport0 (interrupt-driven). [ 54.334157] Adding 489848k swap on /dev/md1. Priority:-1 extents:1 across:489848k [ 54.459781] eth0: no IPv6 routers present [ 54.774660] EXT3 FS on md0, internal journal [ 55.678581] kjournald starting. Commit interval 5 seconds [ 55.714188] EXT3 FS on md2, internal journal [ 55.714203] EXT3-fs: mounted filesystem with ordered data mode. [ 57.517647] input: Power Button (FF) as /class/input/input4 [ 57.518292] ACPI: Power Button (FF) [PWRF] [ 57.549629] input: Power Button (CM) as /class/input/input5 [ 57.550311] ACPI: Power Button (CM) [PBTN] [ 57.776980] No dock devices found. [ 61.147447] ppdev: user-space parallel port driver [ 61.558316] audit(1201002883.359:3): type=1503 operation="inode_permission" requested_mask="a" denied_mask="a" name="/dev/tty" pid=4981 profile="/usr/sbin/cupsd" [ 61.693785] apm: BIOS version 1.2 Flags 0x03 (Driver version 1.16ac) [ 61.693800] apm: overridden by ACPI. [ 62.279149] Failure registering capabilities with primary security module. [ 62.625904] Bluetooth: Core ver 2.11 [ 62.626236] NET: Registered protocol family 31 [ 62.626244] Bluetooth: HCI device and connection manager initialized [ 62.626254] Bluetooth: HCI socket layer initialized [ 62.656883] Bluetooth: L2CAP ver 2.8 [ 62.656896] Bluetooth: L2CAP socket layer initialized [ 62.674043] Bluetooth: RFCOMM socket layer initialized [ 62.674288] Bluetooth: RFCOMM TTY layer initialized [ 62.674296] Bluetooth: RFCOMM ver 1.8 [18747.718415] Failure registering capabilities with primary security module. [18774.639841] audit(1201021609.926:4): type=1503 operation="inode_permission" requested_mask="a" denied_mask="a" name="/dev/tty" pid=7258 profile="/usr/sbin/cupsd" [34157.184734] /build/buildd/linux-source-2.6.22-2.6.22/drivers/usb/class/usblp.c: usblp0: removed [34159.869351] audit(1201037006.303:5): type=1503 operation="inode_permission" requested_mask="rw" denied_mask="rw" name="/dev/tty" pid=7926 profile="/usr/sbin/cupsd" [34160.857592] audit(1201037007.304:6): type=1503 operation="inode_permission" requested_mask="rw" denied_mask="rw" name="/dev/tty" pid=7929 profile="/usr/sbin/cupsd" [34265.042544] audit(1201037111.309:7): type=1503 operation="inode_permission" requested_mask="rw" denied_mask="rw" name="/dev/tty" pid=8235 profile="/usr/sbin/cupsd" [34265.216972] audit(1201037111.309:8): type=1503 operation="inode_permission" requested_mask="rw" denied_mask="rw" name="/dev/tty" pid=8238 profile="/usr/sbin/cupsd" [35021.928563] audit(1201037868.853:9): type=1503 operation="inode_permission" requested_mask="rw" denied_mask="rw" name="/dev/tty" pid=8429 profile="/usr/sbin/cupsd" [35022.243957] audit(1201037868.853:10): type=1503 operation="inode_permission" requested_mask="rw" denied_mask="rw" name="/dev/tty" pid=8443 profile="/usr/sbin/cupsd" chris at cpc:~$ Chris > AC97 won't show much. Perhaps the EMU shows a bit more. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 22:03:11 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:03:11 -0800 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080119235727.GG3638@adb.ca> <20080120185343.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080120222338.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080121185413.GC7124@adb.ca> Message-ID: On Jan 22, 2008 1:58 PM, Peter P. wrote: > Use wipe(1) with suitable options and hope for the device not to use the wear > balancing mechanism OR make the entire device a single file (mountable FS image, > encrypted), and wipe that. This second option should work even if the wear > balancing works. wipe(1) is very configurable. Also reading the Guttmann paper > on file wiping is a must step imho. And also read Simson Garfinkel's papers on how he hates what the Guttmann paper has done for the forensics community. Simson gave me an ear-full when he came to my University and I mentioned Guttmann. He almost even went into a rage about Guttmann :-P -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 22:10:45 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:10:45 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080119235727.GG3638@adb.ca> <20080120185343.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080120222338.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080121185413.GC7124@adb.ca> Message-ID: <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 02:03:11PM -0800, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > And also read Simson Garfinkel's papers on how he hates what the > Guttmann paper has done for the forensics community. Simson gave me > an ear-full when he came to my University and I mentioned Guttmann. > He almost even went into a rage about Guttmann :-P Does the forensics community have issues with people knowing how to clean up properly? If they do, well to darn bad. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 22:16:13 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:16:13 -0800 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <20080122221045.GL2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080119235727.GG3638@adb.ca> <20080120185343.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080120222338.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080121185413.GC7124@adb.ca> <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Jan 22, 2008 2:10 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Does the forensics community have issues with people knowing how to > clean up properly? > > If they do, well to darn bad. I think Simson's point was that Guttmann was incorrect in his claims that data on overwritten drives could be recovered and should be overwritten many times to become 'secured'. The know one sure way to secure a drive, and that it is smash it with a sledgehammer and throw it in the fire. But, apparently just dd'ing with zeros *once* is sufficient... -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 22:23:10 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:23:10 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <479667C7.3000900-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080117153719.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47953961.9000806@chrisaitken.net> <20080122004741.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479541FD.5020409@chrisaitken.net> <20080122145213.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4796360B.6040809@chrisaitken.net> <20080122184420.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4796526F.5000504@chrisaitken.net> <20080122204029.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479667C7.3000900@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080122222310.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 05:01:43PM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > Okay, here is where the emu stuff starts. I'm assuming this means that > at least I don't have to open the computer to reseat the card... > > [ 51.749233] emu1010: Special config. > [ 51.749322] emu1010: EMU_HANA_ID=0x7f > [ 52.654513] firmware: emu/hana.fw not found. Err=-2 > [ 52.654527] emu1010: Loading Hana Firmware file emu/hana.fw failed > [ 52.658856] ACPI: PCI interrupt for device 0000:02:0a.0 disabled > [ 52.658891] EMU10K1_Audigy: probe of 0000:02:0a.0 failed with error -2 > [ 52.659228] PCI: Enabling device 0000:00:1f.5 (0004 -> 0005) > [ 52.659252] ACPI: PCI Interrupt 0000:00:1f.5[B] -> GSI 17 (level, > low) -> IRQ 20 Well that seems to say it can't find the firmware. I wonder what directory it is looking in. Certainly the alsa-firmware package does include a file by that name. It puts it as: ./lib/firmware/emu/hana.fw I wonder if that is wrong. /lib/firmware/ is certainly where all my firmware files for ivtv are stored and they work fine there. Try: ls -l /lib/firmware/emu/ There are a few people complaining on ubuntu that even with the firmware file in place it still complains that it can't find it. I wonder if ubuntu changed where they look for firmware files. Some systems used to put it in /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware. You could try doing: cp -a /lib/firmware/* /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware/ Then: modprobe -r snd_emu10k1_synth modprobe -r snd_emu10k1 modprobe snd_emu10k1 -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 22:24:57 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:24:57 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080119235727.GG3638@adb.ca> <20080120185343.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080120222338.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080121185413.GC7124@adb.ca> <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080122222457.GN2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 02:16:13PM -0800, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > I think Simson's point was that Guttmann was incorrect in his claims > that data on overwritten drives could be recovered and should be > overwritten many times to become 'secured'. The know one sure way to > secure a drive, and that it is smash it with a sledgehammer and throw > it in the fire. But, apparently just dd'ing with zeros *once* is > sufficient... Well dd'ing with zeros makes it hard to recover (I have read claims that given enough time with electron microscopes and such you might still be able to recover data). So Guttmann's claims were overly paranoid and not very well founded then? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 22:31:21 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:31:21 +0000 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080119235727.GG3638@adb.ca> <20080120185343.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080120222338.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080121185413.GC7124@adb.ca> Message-ID: On Jan 22, 2008 10:03 PM, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > On Jan 22, 2008 1:58 PM, Peter P. wrote: > > Use wipe(1) with suitable options and hope for the device not to use the wear > > balancing mechanism OR make the entire device a single file (mountable FS image, > > encrypted), and wipe that. This second option should work even if the wear > > balancing works. wipe(1) is very configurable. Also reading the Guttmann paper > > on file wiping is a must step imho. > > And also read Simson Garfinkel's papers on how he hates what the > Guttmann paper has done for the forensics community. Simson gave me > an ear-full when he came to my University and I mentioned Guttmann. > He almost even went into a rage about Guttmann :-P I'm really quite a bit confused as to precisely what he would get angry about. A problem with Guttmann's paper is that it seems to posit somewhat more "magical" means of data recovery than seems to actually exist. TLUG had a talk back a few years ago from some folks who do data recovery. What *they* described were mechanisms to *possibly* get a disk image back if (for instance) your hard drive controller got blown out. The fragility of the results seemed pretty high, and there was NO notion of examining one's hard drive with an electron microscope to search for patterns through multiple iterations of random erasure. There is a rebuttal to Guttman's paper here: I rather think that if the FBI got an 80GB "ex-Al Qaeda" hard drive that they had to examine under the microscope to find patterns that Bad Guys had tried to erase, that they might have to spend five or six years in order to get more than a minscule portion of the drive thus analyzed. So I think Guttman is a tad overparanoid here. I'm still not sure why this would elicit anger about effects on the forensic community... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 22:31:42 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:31:42 -0800 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <20080122222457.GN2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080119235727.GG3638@adb.ca> <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080120222338.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080121185413.GC7124@adb.ca> <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080122222457.GN2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Jan 22, 2008 2:24 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well dd'ing with zeros makes it hard to recover (I have read claims that > given enough time with electron microscopes and such you might still be > able to recover data). > > So Guttmann's claims were overly paranoid and not very well founded > then? According to Garfinkel, yes... -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 22:31:55 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:31:55 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <20080122222310.GM2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080117153719.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47953961.9000806@chrisaitken.net> <20080122004741.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479541FD.5020409@chrisaitken.net> <20080122145213.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4796360B.6040809@chrisaitken.net> <20080122184420.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4796526F.5000504@chrisaitken.net> <20080122204029.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479667C7.3000900@chrisaitken.net> <20080122222310.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <47966EDB.9040009@chrisaitken.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well that seems to say it can't find the firmware. I wonder what > directory it is looking in. Certainly the alsa-firmware package does > include a file by that name. It puts it as: > > ./lib/firmware/emu/hana.fw > > I wonder if that is wrong. > > /lib/firmware/ is certainly where all my firmware files for ivtv are > stored and they work fine there. > > Try: > ls -l /lib/firmware/emu/ > chris at cpc:~$ ls -l /lib/firmware/emu/ total 348 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 78756 2007-10-22 11:16 audio_dock.fw -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 54908 2007-10-22 11:16 emu0404.fw -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 54908 2007-10-22 11:16 emu1010_notebook.fw -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 78756 2007-10-22 11:16 hana.fw -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 54908 2007-10-22 11:16 micro_dock.fw > There are a few people complaining on ubuntu that even with the firmware > file in place it still complains that it can't find it. I wonder if > ubuntu changed where they look for firmware files. Some systems used to > put it in /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware. > > You could try doing: > cp -a /lib/firmware/* /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware/ > > Then: > modprobe -r snd_emu10k1_synth > modprobe -r snd_emu10k1 > modprobe snd_emu10k1 > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 22:34:57 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:34:57 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <47966EDB.9040009-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080117153719.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47953961.9000806@chrisaitken.net> <20080122004741.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479541FD.5020409@chrisaitken.net> <20080122145213.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4796360B.6040809@chrisaitken.net> <20080122184420.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4796526F.5000504@chrisaitken.net> <20080122204029.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479667C7.3000900@chrisaitken.net> <20080122222310.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47966EDB.9040009@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <47966F91.6080004@chrisaitken.net> Christopher Aitken wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> There are a few people complaining on ubuntu that even with the firmware >> file in place it still complains that it can't find it. I wonder if >> ubuntu changed where they look for firmware files. Some systems used to >> put it in /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware. >> >> You could try doing: >> cp -a /lib/firmware/* /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware/ chris at cpc:~$ cp -a /lib/firmware/* /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware/ cp: target `/usr/lib/hotplug/firmware/' is not a directory: No such file or directory Should I create the directory or does the absence of that directory mean the system won't look there? Chris >> >> Then: >> modprobe -r snd_emu10k1_synth >> modprobe -r snd_emu10k1 >> modprobe snd_emu10k1 >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 22:40:10 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:40:10 -0800 Subject: Fwd: wiping disks with /dev/zero In-Reply-To: References: <22365562-4199-4B96-8786-291744057E4A@mac.com> Message-ID: An entire conversation with Simson Garfinkel, it all it's glory :-) This obviously does not include the in-class discussion we had at our University, and where he had given the talk... Forwarded conversation Subject: wiping disks with /dev/zero ------------------------ From: *Kristian Hermansen* Date: Feb 16, 2006 4:35 AM To: kevinfu-bjBJFzlPIWP2fBVCVOL8/A at public.gmane.org Yesterday you told me after the lecture that overwriting a disk with /dev/zero would kill all the data. I queried about the DoD standard for writing up to 7 times over the original data. You said this only pertains to tapes. However, is there not some way to physically remove the disk platter and inspect it in such a way that if you know the current bit is a zero, you can gain more information about the possibility of a previously written bit on the disk? For instance, does a disk write change the state of an on-disk bit completely? Is there 100% loss of information in this change? According to various sources via google, some professional, it is possible to recover these "previous bits" using physical platter inspection techniques... -- Kristian Hermansen ---------- From: * Kristian Hermansen* Date: Feb 16, 2006 4:54 AM To: kevinfu-bjBJFzlPIWP2fBVCVOL8/A at public.gmane.org Here is some more data to back up my claim that recovering data after a /dev/zero overwrite is possible. Surely you will trust the USENIX source, as you seem to be affiliated with this group :-) http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/sec96/full_papers/gutmann/ The paper explicitly applies this method to hard disks as well as other magnetic media storage devices... "3. Erasure of Data stored on Magnetic Media The general concept behind an overwriting scheme is to flip each magnetic domain on the disk back and forth as much as possible (this is the basic idea behind degaussing) without writing the same pattern twice in a row. If the data was encoded directly, we could simply choose the desired overwrite pattern of ones and zeroes and write it repeatedly. However, disks generally use some form of run-length limited (RLL) encoding, so that the adjacent ones won't be written. This encoding is used to ensure that transitions aren't placed too closely together, or too far apart, which would mean the drive would lose track of where it was in the data. To erase magnetic media, we need to overwrite it many times with alternating patterns in order to expose it to a magnetic field oscillating fast enough that it does the desired flipping of the magnetic domains in a reasonable amount of time. Unfortunately, there is a complication in that we need to saturate the disk surface to the greatest depth possible, and very high frequency signals only "scratch the surface" of the magnetic medium. Disk drive manufacturers, in trying to achieve ever-higher densities, use the highest possible frequencies, whereas we really require the lowest frequency a disk drive can produce. Even this is still rather high. The best we can do is to use the lowest frequency possible for overwrites, to penetrate as deeply as possible into the recording medium. The write frequency also determines how effectively previous data can be overwritten due to the dependence of the field needed to cause magnetic switching on the length of time the field is applied. Tests on a number of typical disk drive heads have shown a difference of up to 20 dB in overwrite performance when data recorded at 40 kFCI (flux changes per inch), typical of recent disk drives, is overwritten with a signal varying from 0 to 100 kFCI. The best average performance for the various heads appears to be with an overwrite signal of around 10 kFCI, with the worst performance being at 100 kFCI [12]. The track write width is also affected by the write frequency - as the frequency increases, the write width decreases for both MR and TFI heads. In [13] there was a decrease in write width of around 20% as the write frequency was increased from 1 to 40 kFCI, with the decrease being most marked at the high end of the frequency range. However, the decrease in write width is balanced by a corresponding increase in the two side- erase bands so that the sum of the two remains nearly constant with frequency and equal to the DC erase width for the head. The media coercivity also affects the width of the write and erase bands, with their width dropping as the coercivity increases (this is one of the explanations for the ever-increasing coercivity of newer, higher-density drives). To try to write the lowest possible frequency we must determine what decoded data to write to produce a low-frequency encoded signal." -- Kristian Hermansen ---------- From: *Kevin Fu* Date: Feb 16, 2006 6:34 AM To: Kristian Hermansen < kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> Cc: Simson Garfinkel Actually, this is the exact paper that Simson says is wrong. It's not clear to me who's right, but don't believe everything you read... ---------- From: *Kristian Hermansen* < kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> Date: Feb 16, 2006 6:47 AM To: Kevin Fu Cc: Simson Garfinkel < simsong-ee4meeAH724 at public.gmane.org> I'd be interested to find out *why* the paper is not true. By the paper's claims, it seems that they may exist special custom platter reading devices to get "old data" from the drive. Maybe Simson can link me to a counter-paper on this claim? Thanks for the info... -- Kristian Hermansen ---------- From: *Simson Garfinkel* Date: Feb 16, 2006 6:57 AM To: Kristian Hermansen < kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> Cc: Kevin Fu Well, you might start by reading the whole paper. Did you read it an actually understand it? Then read the postscript on the author's own web page. ---------- From: *Kevin Fu* < kevinfu-bjBJFzlPIWP2fBVCVOL8/A at public.gmane.org> Date: Feb 16, 2006 7:25 AM To: Kristian Hermansen mind if I forward these messages to the cs591d class mailing list for discussion? ---------- From: *Kristian Hermansen* Date: Feb 16, 2006 9:59 AM To: Simson Garfinkel Cc: Kevin Fu No, I did not read the entire paper. Some of the topics he mentioned were outside of my scope of knowledge (I am an undergrad with some security knowledge). I too, wonder how having a more sophisticated/sensitive device would pick up this data. However, I would not dare claim knowing more than a forensic specialist...of course ;-) I don't know how that device would really work. So, I wish that I did not have a class at your meeting time so I could have attended the discussion. Since I cannot seem to grasp the technical details of the the original author, is there a layman's paper on the subject as to why this is not possible from your view? I attended the Grugq forensic talk at BlackHat 2005 (same event as Mike Lynn's infamous cisco ios exploit) last summer and he to told the audience that most forensic "specialists" in law enforcement are not well-grounded in terms of technical expertise. He mentioned something about data recovery on overwritten drives as well... -- Kristian Hermansen ---------- From: *Simson Garfinkel* Date: Feb 16, 2006 11:00 AM To: Kristian Hermansen Cc: Kevin Fu Dear Kristian, I strongly recommend that you read the entire paper before making claims about what the paper says and does not say. It really is a waste of my time for me to painstakingly write you what is in the paper. You are in a graduate program; if you do not understand the information that's presented in a program, you should do research and figure out what you do not know, rather than rely on simply asking others by email. You are no longer a layman. In general, I would be much more receptive to your email if you had actually read the paper in its entirity and wanted to discuss it. You seem to want me to do your work for you. The point that I've been hoping that you would realize is that the paper is largely a discussion about hard drives that use a particular type of encoding standard that was popular in the 1980s and early 1990s. In the 1990s new coding techniques were adopted by hard drive vendors. It is unlikely hard drive manufactured post-1995 would work. For further information, please see: http://www.forensicswiki.org/index.php/Recovering_Overwritten_Data If you feel that I have mistated what the Gutmann paper says, you are welcome to prove me wrong by attempting to recover overwritten data yourself. But please do not speculate. ---------- From: *Kevin Fu* Date: Feb 16, 2006 11:04 AM To: Kristian Hermansen Simson has some strong opinions, but I think you raise some good questions. ---------- From: *Kristian Hermansen* Date: Feb 16, 2006 2:43 PM To: Simson Garfinkel Cc: Kevin Fu Yes, and I totally agree with you. It is not helpful for me to rely on other's academic research and opinions without investigating it thoroughly myself. I am a fan of Feynman, and his teachings tell us not to trust other sources without verifying them for yourself and forming one's own opinion. So I agree totally. However, I did state before that I am an undergraduate -- not a graduate student. I just happen to be interested in the security field as a passive interest. I would be very interested in pursuing graduate study after I complete my undergrad CS degree... Simson, thanks again for the input. I really am grateful that you took the time to respond to my naive questions, because I am very interested in it. Kevin, thanks for your coments as well :-) -- Kristian Hermansen ---------- From: *Simson Garfinkel* Date: Feb 16, 2006 5:00 PM To: Kristian Hermansen Cc: Kevin Fu GREAT! Oh. I misunderstood. I wouldn't have been so hard on you if I had known that. I'm happy to answer more questions. I just want you to be well prepared. I'm quite generous with my time, but I expect you to do your part. What do you think of the Wiki? ---------- From: *Kristian Hermansen* Date: Feb 17, 2006 5:49 AM To: Simson Garfinkel Cc: Kevin Fu The wiki was helpful for my layman's view, so thanks! Maybe if I am accepted into graduate school, I will have the resources/time to investigate topics like this further :-) I do security research on my own time, but I tend to deal more with software. Now I just have to look around for a graduate school that will accept my 3.3 GPA...but grades aren't everything, right? Thanks again for the help... http://www.kristianhermansen.com/wordpress/?p=31 -- Kristian Hermansen ---------- From: *Simson Garfinkel* Date: Feb 18, 2006 7:13 AM To: Kristian Hermansen < kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> Cc: Kevin Fu Grades aren't everything, but they are important. Also important is published papers. I would recommend that you see if you can work with others and get out some publications --- they help a lot where graduate school is concerned. ---------- From: *Kristian Hermansen* Date: Feb 19, 2006 8:11 AM To: brian levine < brian-bjBJFzlPIWP2fBVCVOL8/A at public.gmane.org> :-) -- Kristian Hermansen -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmacaranas-/DrkG639A0k at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 23:57:06 2008 From: jmacaranas-/DrkG639A0k at public.gmane.org (jmacaranas-/DrkG639A0k at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:57:06 -0500 Subject: [SPAM] - Re:redundant-servers question - Email found in subject In-Reply-To: <20080122204519.GJ2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4796535C.8000407@gmail.com> <20080122204519.GJ2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4D32E9B6A504554489FFFD81E7FF281305788984@MX01.fxdd.com> Heartbeat + DRBD >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of >Lennart Sorensen >Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 3:45 PM >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Subject: [SPAM] - Re: [TLUG]: redundant-servers question - Email >found in subject > >On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 03:34:36PM -0500, teddy mills wrote: >> >> I have servers I need to make redundant. >> Live PC and a backup PC, both exactly the same hardware. >> Servers are Gentoo with RAID1. >> >> If I have any problems with any of the live servers then I pull >the >> network plug, and drop that network cable into its exact-copy >backup server. >> >> I thought about using rsync, to keep the backup servers the same >as the >> live servers. >> The weak point is the rsync complexity. If I miss even one >important >> file for rsync, then it renders the whole solution almost >useless. >> (ie. with 1000% confidence, I should be able to remove the live >server >> at any time, and replace it with the backup.) >> As well, I would have to do a worst-case scenario >test..ie..replace a >> live server with the backup. >> >> I would much prefer to use mdadm's rebuilding feature and hot- >swapping >> drives. (once per 24 hours, or as needed) >> >> LIVE PC. >> RAID1 with hotswap 2 drives.DRIVE-A and DRIVE-B >> >> BACKUP PC with 1 hotswap drive DRIVE-C. >> >> Everyday, hotswap exchange DRIVE-B and DRIVE-C. >> fdisk /dev/DRIVE-B, and let mdadm rebuild it. >> Leave the working backup in the backup PC. >> >> Using this method, I am virtually guaranteed that the backup >servers are >> exactly the same as the live servers. >> Only problem with this solution, is that every day I am breaking >and >> rebuilding the raid. >> With no room for errors. A LOT more risky than just letting the >RAID1 >> run alone. > >Well you do realize raid1 isn't limited to just 2 drives right? > >You could leave the 2 disks in the raid alone, and add a 3rd mirror >(at >least as far as I know) that you are swapping. > >I think I would personally prefer to just make sure my rsync works. >You >could do the rsync, then take the disk out of the backup server and >connect it on the live server and do a diff between the drives to >see >that all the files are the same (of course if the live server is >doing >work a few files might still be changing). > >Replication is a very hard problem to solve. > >-- >Len Sorensen >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It may contain sensitive and private proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. FXDirectDealer, LLC reserves the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them. Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information given in this message is indicative only, is subject to change and does not constitute an offer to deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the terms of executed transactions should be treated as preliminary only and subject to our formal confirmation. FXDirectDealer, LLC is not responsible for any recommendation, solicitation, offer or agreement or any information about any transaction, customer account or account activity contained in this communication. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 01:46:26 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:46:26 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <47966F91.6080004-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <479541FD.5020409@chrisaitken.net> <20080122145213.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4796360B.6040809@chrisaitken.net> <20080122184420.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4796526F.5000504@chrisaitken.net> <20080122204029.GI2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479667C7.3000900@chrisaitken.net> <20080122222310.GM2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47966EDB.9040009@chrisaitken.net> <47966F91.6080004@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080123014626.GO2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 05:34:57PM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > Christopher Aitken wrote: > >Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > > >>There are a few people complaining on ubuntu that even with the firmware > >>file in place it still complains that it can't find it. I wonder if > >>ubuntu changed where they look for firmware files. Some systems used to > >>put it in /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware. > >> > >>You could try doing: > >>cp -a /lib/firmware/* /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware/ > chris at cpc:~$ cp -a /lib/firmware/* /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware/ > cp: target `/usr/lib/hotplug/firmware/' is not a directory: No such file > or directory > > Should I create the directory or does the absence of that directory mean > the system won't look there? Hmm, well if it doesn't exist then I guess Ubuntu won't look there. I know Debian used to, although it now uses /lib/firmware as well. So I see no reason this shouldn't work. The driver looks right, the firmware file looks right and appears to have proper permissions and everything. You might have to ask the alsa user mailing list for help. Not sure if there was a bug in alsa 1.0.14rc that is gone in 1.0.15 since I did find messages from people that had it working, although nothing that ever answered why some people got the same error as you are getting. Maybe the firmware shouldn't be in subdirectories, but rather have the hana.fw in the /lib/firmware directory directly, although the error message, and the why the files are distributed would say otherwise. Short of going and looking at what the source code does when it looks for the firmware in that particular version I am not sure what else to suggest, and since I just got a pile of new computer hardware to play with, reading source code is a bit down my list right now. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 15:02:27 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:02:27 -0500 Subject: URGENT - I need a Debian stable web/mail server Message-ID: <20080123150227.GA1360@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Hello all: I need a production environment for a small mod_python web site and a dozen emails - and I don't have time to mess with configurations. I have a test server on Debian stable, and I want to be able to just copy over files and configs and know that it will work. Virtual machine is fine. I leave the country this afternoon for a week, and I can't host this from my test server at home in case the modem needs cycling. If you or your company can provide this this morning, please call at 416.406.5080. Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 15:28:07 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:28:07 -0500 Subject: URGENT - I need a Debian stable web/mail server In-Reply-To: <20080123150227.GA1360-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20080123150227.GA1360@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20080123152807.GA2029@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, Jan 23, 2008 at 10:02:27AM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >Hello all: > >I need a production environment for a small mod_python web site and a >dozen emails - and I don't have time to mess with configurations. I >have a test server on Debian stable, and I want to be able to just copy >over files and configs and know that it will work. Virtual machine is >fine. > >I leave the country this afternoon for a week, and I can't host this >from my test server at home in case the modem needs cycling. > >If you or your company can provide this this morning, please call at >416.406.5080. Thanks. Thanks to Clifford and Madison, who both called within minutes of my sending this. This list is fantastic. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 15:39:32 2008 From: asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Asaf Maruf) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:39:32 -0500 Subject: Large memory support in Linux In-Reply-To: <20080122211639.GK2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <49e826e90801221306p6b54554dr4bd28c210c05eb6@mail.gmail.com> <20080122211639.GK2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <49e826e90801230739w493cb714p22d7b4aa85b90554@mail.gmail.com> Thanks...informative. Asaf On Jan 22, 2008 4:16 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 04:06:00PM -0500, Asaf Maruf wrote: > > Hello > > > > What is the maximum memory supported by the current Linux kernel? Will i > > have to use the HUGEMEM kernel for a large memory configuration of 64G+ > or > > 128G+. > > If you use x86 (i386-i686/k7/etc) then you need HIGHMEM4GB if you > have more than 900MB, you need HIGHMEM64GB if you have more than about > 3GB ram (basically if you have any memory mapped higher than 4GB address). > x86 32bit can't addres more than 64GB no matter what you do. > > If you run amd64 (x86_64) then you don't have to worry about it. > Maximum address range is at least 40bit on Opterons, while at least some > Xeon's were limited to 36bit (64GB). Not sure what the current physical > address range on the modern Xeons is now. I see IBM says one of their > Xeon servers can run 512GB so that would be at least 39bit. > > So if the machine is 64bit capable, and can accept that much ram, then > 32bit linux with HIGHMEM64G can use about 63GB of the ram. 64bit linux > can use all of it with the standard config, since it doesn't have any > settings for memory space. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- "I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." - Richard P. Feynman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 17:14:31 2008 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:14:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: PegaSoft - February Dinner Meeting Message-ID: Date: Thursday, February 7, 2008 - 7:30 pm Speaker: Chris Browne, Linux Author and Database Administrator Location: Linux Caffe (one block south of the Christie subway stop) Chris will be hosting an open roundtable on the PostgreSQL database. As usual, please RRSP before Wednesday, February 6, 2008 in order to confirm that we have enough interest to book the Linux Caffe. PegaSoft is an open group of Linux professionals, consultants and developers who meet monthly. Attendance is free. For more information about PegaSoft, visit http://www.pegasoft.ca. Information about upcoming events is at http://www.pegasoft.ca/events.html. Ken B. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 17:24:25 2008 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:24:25 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080119235727.GG3638@adb.ca> <20080120185343.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080120222338.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080121185413.GC7124@adb.ca> Message-ID: <20080123172425.GI7124@adb.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > A problem with Guttmann's paper is that it seems to posit somewhat > more "magical" means of data recovery than seems to actually exist. If your data is still hot in 2013 and they've invented better means of recovery by then, you could be in trouble if your data-wiping is only sufficient to 2008 forensics. It's best to be at least one step more thorough than you think you need to be, on things that really matter to you. Again, that only applies if your data is really hot, and I trust most of us don't have anything more secret than an MP3 collection and a credit card number, and the latter shouldn't touch my own disk except perchance in swap while I'm buying something online. (NB: correct spelling is Gutmann, in case anyone is Googling for his papers.) -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 19:11:10 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:11:10 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <20080123172425.GI7124-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080119235727.GG3638@adb.ca> <20080120185343.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080120222338.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080121185413.GC7124@adb.ca> <20080123172425.GI7124@adb.ca> Message-ID: <4797914E.5000903@rogers.com> Anthony de Boer wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > Again, that only applies if your data is really hot, and I trust most of > us don't have anything more secret than an MP3 collection In that case, you'd better be careful and burn the drive. The RIAA will stop at nothing to frame people! ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 20:25:38 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:25:38 -0500 Subject: PegaSoft - February Dinner Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7ac602420801231225t347ce9cfnc65e84d5f50710c6@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 23, 2008 12:14 PM, Ken Burtch wrote: > ...please RRSP before Wednesday, February 6, 2008... ^^^^ Money on the mind? :P Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 20:42:45 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:42:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Vista Home license now allows virtualization Message-ID: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080121-microsoft-relents-vista-virtualization-ban-lifted.html Now: how can I pick up my pre-installed Vista by the scruff of the neck and run it under Xen or whatever? I'm pessimistic. I suspect that the pre-installed Vista, and the restore disk, won't run because the virtual evironment has different I/O devices. Even if it has drivers for the virtual devices, it might guess that it is being pirated because so many things in its environment changed all at once. Has anyone tried this? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 21:01:36 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:01:36 -0500 Subject: ubuntu 7.10 won't boot Message-ID: <20080123210136.12414.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> I can't boot my ubuntu 7.10 system. I'm getting this: Starting up... Loading, please wait... usplash: Setting mode 1280X1024 failed usplash: Setting mode 1152X864 failed usplash: Setting mode 1024X768 failed usplash: Using mode 800X600 kinit: name_to_dev_t (/dev/md1) + md1(9,7) kinit: trying to resume from /dev/md1 kinit: No resume image, doing normal boot... Ubuntu 7.10 cpc tty1 I don't know if my (brand-new) hard drive is crashing or what. I went into the BIOS to see if there was any IRQ conflict with my emu1212m pci card (I haven't been able to initialize it under alsa) - I made a change and rebooted and got the above. So, I went innto the BIOS and restored default settings. I'm still getting the above error. At the prompt I logged in as root and tried to run init 5 - that did nothing - same for init 3. init 1 got me to another screen but I don't know what to do in init 1 anyway. Any ideas? I'm emailing this through webmail on another machine. i guess you can tell from the above that I have set up RAID not that I would know how to restore from RAID but I thought the point of RAID is that if a hard drive goes the other will take over. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 21:13:27 2008 From: sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris Gow) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:13:27 -0500 Subject: ubuntu 7.10 won't boot In-Reply-To: <20080123210136.12414.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080123210136.12414.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <200801231613.28118.sniffy@rogers.com> On Wednesday 23 January 2008 16:01:36 chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > I can't boot my ubuntu 7.10 system. > > I'm getting this: > > Starting up... > Loading, please wait... > usplash: Setting mode 1280X1024 failed > usplash: Setting mode 1152X864 failed > usplash: Setting mode 1024X768 failed > usplash: Using mode 800X600 > kinit: name_to_dev_t (/dev/md1) + md1(9,7) > kinit: trying to resume from /dev/md1 > kinit: No resume image, doing normal boot... > > Ubuntu 7.10 cpc tty1 > > I don't know if my (brand-new) hard drive is crashing or what. I went into > the BIOS to see if there was any IRQ conflict with my emu1212m pci card (I > haven't been able to initialize it under alsa) - I made a change and > rebooted and got the above. So, I went innto the BIOS and restored default > settings. I'm still getting the above error. At the prompt I logged in as > root and tried to run init 5 - that did nothing - same for init 3. init 1 > got me to another screen but I don't know what to do in init 1 anyway. > > Any ideas? I'm emailing this through webmail on another machine. i guess > you can tell from the above that I have set up RAID not that I would know > how to restore from RAID but I thought the point of RAID is that if a hard > drive goes the other will take over. So you can log in as root, can you also log in as normal user? What happens if you run startx? Does your X start up then? I'd also check your /var/log/Xorg.log and if startx doesn't work maybe your .xsession-errors in your home directory -- chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 21:34:46 2008 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:34:46 -0500 Subject: ubuntu 7.10 won't boot In-Reply-To: <200801231613.28118.sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080123210136.12414.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <200801231613.28118.sniffy@rogers.com> Message-ID: Hello, I'm not sure how to fix the problem, but it looks like the framebuffer used by the splash screen is failing. Maybe disabling the splash screen would allow you to boot properly until you can sort out your video problems. You can find splash options in /boot/grub/menu.lst Cheers, Randy On Jan 23, 2008 4:13 PM, Chris Gow wrote: > On Wednesday 23 January 2008 16:01:36 chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > > I can't boot my ubuntu 7.10 system. > > > > I'm getting this: > > > > Starting up... > > Loading, please wait... > > usplash: Setting mode 1280X1024 failed > > usplash: Setting mode 1152X864 failed > > usplash: Setting mode 1024X768 failed > > usplash: Using mode 800X600 > > kinit: name_to_dev_t (/dev/md1) + md1(9,7) > > kinit: trying to resume from /dev/md1 > > kinit: No resume image, doing normal boot... > > > > Ubuntu 7.10 cpc tty1 > > > > I don't know if my (brand-new) hard drive is crashing or what. I went > into > > the BIOS to see if there was any IRQ conflict with my emu1212m pci card > (I > > haven't been able to initialize it under alsa) - I made a change and > > rebooted and got the above. So, I went innto the BIOS and restored > default > > settings. I'm still getting the above error. At the prompt I logged in > as > > root and tried to run init 5 - that did nothing - same for init 3. init > 1 > > got me to another screen but I don't know what to do in init 1 anyway. > > > > Any ideas? I'm emailing this through webmail on another machine. i guess > > you can tell from the above that I have set up RAID not that I would > know > > how to restore from RAID but I thought the point of RAID is that if a > hard > > drive goes the other will take over. > So you can log in as root, can you also log in as normal user? What > happens if > you run startx? Does your X start up then? > > I'd also check your /var/log/Xorg.log and if startx doesn't work maybe > your .xsession-errors in your home directory > > -- chris > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Oscar Developer McMaster University 75 Frid Street, Hamilton, ON 905 525 9140 x27735 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 22:26:45 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:26:45 -0500 Subject: ubuntu 7.10 won't boot In-Reply-To: <200801231613.28118.sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080123210136.12414.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <200801231613.28118.sniffy@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080123222645.29570.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Chris Gow writes: >> Any ideas? I'm emailing this through webmail on another machine. i guess >> you can tell from the above that I have set up RAID not that I would know >> how to restore from RAID but I thought the point of RAID is that if a hard >> drive goes the other will take over. Sorry, I missed a couple of your suggestions. > So you can log in as root, Yes. can you also log in as normal user? Yes. > What happens if > you run startx? Does your X start up then? Yes, it did (after logging on as chris). When X came up there was err: The panel encountered a problem loading 'OAFIID: GNOME - FastUserSwitchApplet' Do you want to delete this from your configuration? I hit 'Delete'. I tried umounting the ubuntu CD and I got a message that I don't have sufficient privileges. I also tried to shut down and see that there is no Shut Dwon option - only the others: Switch user, Suspend, Lock Screen, Log Out and Hibernate. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 22:20:52 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:20:52 -0500 Subject: ubuntu 7.10 won't boot In-Reply-To: <200801231613.28118.sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080123210136.12414.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <200801231613.28118.sniffy@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080123222052.17729.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Chris Gow writes: > On Wednesday 23 January 2008 16:01:36 chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: >> I can't boot my ubuntu 7.10 system. >> >> I'm getting this: >> >> Starting up... >> Loading, please wait... >> usplash: Setting mode 1280X1024 failed >> usplash: Setting mode 1152X864 failed >> usplash: Setting mode 1024X768 failed >> usplash: Using mode 800X600 >> kinit: name_to_dev_t (/dev/md1) + md1(9,7) >> kinit: trying to resume from /dev/md1 >> kinit: No resume image, doing normal boot... >> >> Ubuntu 7.10 cpc tty1 >> >> I don't know if my (brand-new) hard drive is crashing or what. I went into >> the BIOS to see if there was any IRQ conflict with my emu1212m pci card (I >> haven't been able to initialize it under alsa) - I made a change and >> rebooted and got the above. So, I went innto the BIOS and restored default >> settings. I'm still getting the above error. At the prompt I logged in as >> root and tried to run init 5 - that did nothing - same for init 3. init 1 >> got me to another screen but I don't know what to do in init 1 anyway. >> >> Any ideas? I'm emailing this through webmail on another machine. i guess >> you can tell from the above that I have set up RAID not that I would know >> how to restore from RAID but I thought the point of RAID is that if a hard >> drive goes the other will take over. > So you can log in as root, can you also log in as normal user? What happens if > you run startx? Does your X start up then? > > I'd also check your /var/log/Xorg.log I have a /var/log/Xorg.0.log file. It's really long - what am I looking for? >and if startx doesn't work maybe It didn't. > your .xsession-errors in your home directory Another big file. A couple that caught my eye: Refusing to initialize GTK+ Gtk - WARNING ***: process running setuid or setgid - this is not a supported use of GTK+ - you must create a helper app instead. Am I looking for that or something else? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 22:37:08 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:37:08 -0500 Subject: X/boot/emu1212m Message-ID: <4797C194.1050204@chrisaitken.net> It seems that a couple of problems are converging. I'm having trouble booting and seems I've lost some regular user ('chris') privileges. However, on a whim, I decided to try alsa again. Guess what? Alsa now sees the emu1212m pci card for the first time! I thought I'd start another thread here rather than go back and forth between threads. What I did before I had the boot/X/user problem was I did apt-get remove on hte following apps: alsa-oss alsa-base alsa-tools alsa-utils alsa-source alsa-firmware then re-installed them all. I figured this may do something good now that I have the correct repositry in apt/sources.list. THen I went into the BIOS and changed an IRQ. Now I have X and user problems but emu1212m is detected by alsa. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 01:12:04 2008 From: sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris Gow) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:12:04 -0500 Subject: ubuntu 7.10 won't boot In-Reply-To: <20080123222052.17729.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080123210136.12414.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <200801231613.28118.sniffy@rogers.com> <20080123222052.17729.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <200801232012.05085.sniffy@rogers.com> On Wednesday 23 January 2008 17:20:52 chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > Chris Gow writes: > > On Wednesday 23 January 2008 16:01:36 chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> I can't boot my ubuntu 7.10 system. > >> > >> I'm getting this: > >> > >> Starting up... > >> Loading, please wait... > >> usplash: Setting mode 1280X1024 failed > >> usplash: Setting mode 1152X864 failed > >> usplash: Setting mode 1024X768 failed > >> usplash: Using mode 800X600 > >> kinit: name_to_dev_t (/dev/md1) + md1(9,7) > >> kinit: trying to resume from /dev/md1 > >> kinit: No resume image, doing normal boot... > >> > >> Ubuntu 7.10 cpc tty1 > >> > > > > So you can log in as root, can you also log in as normal user? What > > happens if you run startx? Does your X start up then? > > > > I'd also check your /var/log/Xorg.log > > I have a /var/log/Xorg.0.log file. It's really long - what am I looking > for? I would expect some errors at the end. Look for lines that start with (EE). > > >and if startx doesn't work maybe > > It didn't. > > > your .xsession-errors in your home directory > > Another big file. A couple that caught my eye: > > Refusing to initialize GTK+ > > Gtk - WARNING ***: process running setuid or setgid - this is not a > supported use of GTK+ - you must create a helper app instead. > > Am I looking for that or something else? I don't think so. One thing I just thought of, when was the last time you restarted this PC? I'm on kubuntu 7.10, and I believe that there was an X update pushed out over the weekend. Perhaps there is something in that update that is affecting you. -- chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 01:18:17 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:18:17 -0500 Subject: ubuntu 7.10 won't boot In-Reply-To: <200801232012.05085.sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080123210136.12414.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <200801231613.28118.sniffy@rogers.com> <20080123222052.17729.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <200801232012.05085.sniffy@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4797E759.8040403@chrisaitken.net> Chris Gow wrote: > I would expect some errors at the end. Look for lines that start with (EE). > Nothing like that. >>> and if startx doesn't work maybe >>> >> It didn't. >> >> >>> your .xsession-errors in your home directory >>> >> Another big file. A couple that caught my eye: >> >> Refusing to initialize GTK+ >> >> Gtk - WARNING ***: process running setuid or setgid - this is not a >> supported use of GTK+ - you must create a helper app instead. >> >> Am I looking for that or something else? >> > I don't think so. One thing I just thought of, when was the last time you > restarted this PC? Other than today? Yesterday, I think. > I'm on kubuntu 7.10, and I believe that there was an X > update pushed out over the weekend. Perhaps there is something in that update > that is affecting you. > I did accept all of yesterday's updates. I don't even read what they are (except I always deselect gtkpod as I have the experimental one installed). Chris > > -- chris > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 01:38:24 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:38:24 -0500 Subject: ubuntu 7.10 won't boot In-Reply-To: <200801232012.05085.sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080123210136.12414.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <200801231613.28118.sniffy@rogers.com> <20080123222052.17729.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <200801232012.05085.sniffy@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4797EC10.7010300@chrisaitken.net> Chris Gow wrote: > I don't think so. One thing I just thought of, when was the last time you > restarted this PC? I'm on kubuntu 7.10, and I believe that there was an X > update pushed out over the weekend. Perhaps there is something in that update > that is affecting you. > I'm afraid to shut my computer down now. Another part of me wants to shut it down just to stir up the hornet's nest. :) Chris > > -- chris > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 01:44:05 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:44:05 -0500 Subject: X/boot/emu1212m In-Reply-To: <4797C194.1050204-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4797C194.1050204@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <4797ED65.8010905@chrisaitken.net> Christopher Aitken wrote: > It seems that a couple of problems are converging. I'm having trouble > booting and seems I've lost some regular user ('chris') privileges. > However, on a whim, I decided to try alsa again. Guess what? Alsa now > sees the emu1212m pci card for the first time! > > I thought I'd start another thread here rather than go back and forth > between threads. > > What I did before I had the boot/X/user problem was I did apt-get > remove on hte following apps: > > alsa-oss > alsa-base > alsa-tools > alsa-utils > alsa-source > alsa-firmware > > then re-installed them all. I figured this may do something good now > that I have the correct repositry in apt/sources.list. > > Then I went into the BIOS and changed an IRQ. > > Now I have X and user problems I can't shut down (not as user anyway) - when I go to System>Quit I have all the options (Hibernate, Switch User et al. but no 'Shut Down'). How can I give myself permission to Shut Down again (or is part of a larger problem I need to address?)? I guess I lost the permission with this latest boot trouble. > but emu1212m is detected by alsa. > > Chris > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 03:27:13 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:27:13 -0500 Subject: Letter with respect to possible amendments to the Copyright Act Message-ID: <47980591.9090100@pppoe.ca> Jennifer Stoddart, the Privacy Commissioner of Canada, is wary of DRM, and she's not afraid to tell other branches of government about her concerns. Stoddart has just sent a public letter to Jim Prentice, the Canadian Minister of Industry, telling him that his impending copyright reform bill should not protect any DRM that gathers and transmits personal data. http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080120-canadian-privacy-commissioner-just-say-no-to-intrusive-drm.html The Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Jennifer Stoddart, sent the following letter to the /Honourable Jim Prentice, Minister of Industry/ and the /Honourable Jos?e Verner, Minister of Canadian Heritage/, regarding possible amendments to the /Copyright Act. http://www.privcom.gc.ca/parl/2008/let_080118_e.asp /Meng/ / -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hdevalence-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 04:14:43 2008 From: hdevalence-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Henry de Valence) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 23:14:43 -0500 Subject: Letter with respect to possible amendments to the Copyright Act In-Reply-To: <47980591.9090100-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <47980591.9090100@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <200801232314.44175.hdevalence@gmail.com> On Wednesday 23 January 2008 10:27:13 pm Meng Cheah wrote: > Jennifer Stoddart, the Privacy Commissioner of Canada, is wary of DRM, > and she's not afraid to tell other branches of government about her > concerns. Stoddart has just sent a public letter > to Jim Prentice, > the Canadian Minister of Industry, telling him that his impending > copyright reform bill should not protect any DRM that gathers and > transmits personal data. How long until she gets fired like Linda Keen of the CNSC who spoke out against operating nuclear plants in clearly unsafe conditions or Jean-Pierre Kingsley, former Chief Electoral Officer of Canada, who dared to point out that the Conservatives were breaking their own campaign financing rules? -- Harry de Valence -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 10:57:22 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 05:57:22 -0500 Subject: Letter with respect to possible amendments to the Copyright Act In-Reply-To: <200801232314.44175.hdevalence-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <47980591.9090100@pppoe.ca> <200801232314.44175.hdevalence@gmail.com> Message-ID: <47986F12.1030809@pppoe.ca> Henry de Valence wrote: > On Wednesday 23 January 2008 10:27:13 pm Meng Cheah wrote: > >> Jennifer Stoddart, the Privacy Commissioner of Canada, is wary of DRM, >> and she's not afraid to tell other branches of government about her >> concerns. Stoddart has just sent a public letter >> to Jim Prentice, >> the Canadian Minister of Industry, telling him that his impending >> copyright reform bill should not protect any DRM that gathers and >> transmits personal data. >> > How long until she gets fired like Linda Keen of the CNSC who spoke out > against operating nuclear plants in clearly unsafe conditions or Jean-Pierre > Kingsley, former Chief Electoral Officer of Canada, who dared to point out > that the Conservatives were breaking their own campaign financing rules? > Privacy czar expresses copyright reform concerns http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/01/22/tech-stoddart-copyright.html When I was growing up in a former British colony, it was often said that "a country deserves the government it gets". While this is debatable, I personally find her speaking out positively inspiring. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 13:34:35 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:34:35 +0300 Subject: virtual private server setup Message-ID: Hi there! A general question, I have been looking around at some hosting services and even have an account with webhost.com. After using it a bit, I can't help to wonder how these guys set up their servers. Can anyone explain a bit about this setup please? What would it take to have such a setup if one feel necessary? Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 13:58:01 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:58:01 -0500 Subject: Vista Home license now allows virtualization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080124135801.GA16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 23, 2008 at 03:42:45PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080121-microsoft-relents-vista-virtualization-ban-lifted.html > > Now: how can I pick up my pre-installed Vista by the scruff of the neck > and run it under Xen or whatever? > > I'm pessimistic. I suspect that the pre-installed Vista, and the restore > disk, won't run because the virtual evironment has different I/O devices. > Even if it has drivers for the virtual devices, it might guess that it is > being pirated because so many things in its environment changed all at > once. > > Has anyone tried this? Ehm, I don't think that change applies to OEM versions, only retail (full and upgrade) versions. Not sure though (and I sure can't find that info in microsoft's web site). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 14:02:07 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:02:07 -0500 Subject: ubuntu 7.10 won't boot In-Reply-To: <20080123210136.12414.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080123210136.12414.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080124140207.GB16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 23, 2008 at 04:01:36PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > I can't boot my ubuntu 7.10 system. > > I'm getting this: > > Starting up... > Loading, please wait... > usplash: Setting mode 1280X1024 failed > usplash: Setting mode 1152X864 failed > usplash: Setting mode 1024X768 failed > usplash: Using mode 800X600 > kinit: name_to_dev_t (/dev/md1) + md1(9,7) > kinit: trying to resume from /dev/md1 > kinit: No resume image, doing normal boot... > > Ubuntu 7.10 cpc tty1 > > I don't know if my (brand-new) hard drive is crashing or what. I went into > the BIOS to see if there was any IRQ conflict with my emu1212m pci card (I > haven't been able to initialize it under alsa) - I made a change and > rebooted and got the above. So, I went innto the BIOS and restored default > settings. I'm still getting the above error. At the prompt I logged in as > root and tried to run init 5 - that did nothing - same for init 3. init 1 > got me to another screen but I don't know what to do in init 1 anyway. > > Any ideas? I'm emailing this through webmail on another machine. i guess > you can tell from the above that I have set up RAID not that I would know > how to restore from RAID but I thought the point of RAID is that if a hard > drive goes the other will take over. Did you change the controller settings in the BIOS? That could make Linux unable to see your HD which would make booting fail. Maybe you should try loading the default settings in the BIOS and see if that solves anything. And your emu1212m problems are not IRQ related, they are caused by the driver for some unknown reason not being able to find the firmware file that is clearly on the disk (so it must be looking somewhere else). I suppose it is possible whatever hte problem is was fixed in alsa 1.0.15, but I am not sure. Didn't you have all this working under fedora before? If you did what version of alsa was that? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 14:50:11 2008 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:50:11 -0500 Subject: OT (Windows): SD Card reader on Gateway Laptop In-Reply-To: <1200711368.7858.7.camel@aragorn> References: <1200711368.7858.7.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: <20080124095011.d64560ec.hgibson@eol.ca> On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:56:07 -0500 Paul King wrote: > Hello > > This is labelled off-topic, since this is a Windows question, and I need > some help. My Gateway laptop, about 1.5 years old, a wireless > tablet/notebook combo, hash a slot for an SD card at the front of the > unit. While it doesn't work in Linux, it also doesn't work in Windows. I > thought that Windows would auto-detect the device, but it does not. Paul, I just bought a new digital camera, and its SD card did not work, either. My new card actually is an SDHC card with a capacity of 4MB. I bought a new card reader with SDHC capability, and everything is fine now. Perhaps this is your problem. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 16:47:42 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 11:47:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Vista Home license now allows virtualization In-Reply-To: <20080124135801.GA16172-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080124135801.GA16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | Ehm, I don't think that change applies to OEM versions, only retail | (full and upgrade) versions. Not sure though (and I sure can't find | that info in microsoft's web site). I fear that you are correct in your surmise. I've just sent this message to Acer support: Subject: EULA for Vista Home According to this article, Microsoft has changed the licensing terms for Windows Vista Home to allow it to be run inside a virtual machine. http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080121-microsoft-relents-vista-virtualization-ban-lifted.html This Microsoft page says "If you obtained the software pre-loaded on a device from a manufacturer, consult the license terms that came with the software on that device." I would like this new right. Could you please provide me with a revised EULA with this provision? Thanks. The actual Microsoft announcement is here: http://www.microsoft.com/Presspass/press/2008/jan08/01-21VirtualizationAdoptionPR.mspx Within that, it says: "For consumers, Windows Vista Home Basic and Windows Vista Home Premium are now licensed for use in a virtual machine environment, and the updated end-user license agreement is available at http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 17:54:36 2008 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:54:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: PegaSoft - February Dinner Meeting In-Reply-To: <7ac602420801231225t347ce9cfnc65e84d5f50710c6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420801231225t347ce9cfnc65e84d5f50710c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Perhaps. There's a couple of guys coming from Ganz Interactive who are busy hiring a lot of people with Linux experience. Good networking opportunity. Ken B. On Wed, 23 Jan 2008, Ian Petersen wrote: > On Jan 23, 2008 12:14 PM, Ken Burtch wrote: > > ...please RRSP before Wednesday, February 6, 2008... > ^^^^ > > Money on the mind? :P > > Ian > > -- > Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? > Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 18:07:18 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 13:07:18 -0500 Subject: Vista Home license now allows virtualization In-Reply-To: References: <20080124135801.GA16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080124180717.GC16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 11:47:42AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I fear that you are correct in your surmise. > > I've just sent this message to Acer support: > > Subject: EULA for Vista Home > > According to this article, Microsoft has changed the licensing terms > for Windows Vista Home to allow it to be run inside a virtual machine. > http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080121-microsoft-relents-vista-virtualization-ban-lifted.html > > This Microsoft page says "If you obtained the software pre-loaded on a > device from a manufacturer, consult the license terms that came with > the software on that device." > > I would like this new right. Could you please provide me with a > revised EULA with this provision? Hmm, interesting. Reading the license agreement on microsoft's web site when you select for example windows vista you get this in the suplemental licence PDF: If you are licensed to use Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic, Home Premium, Business, or Ultimate, or Service Pack 1 of any of these Windows Vista editions (the "software"), you have the following license right. If there is a conflict with any past or future license terms for the software, this supplemental license term applies. Use with Virtualization Technologies. Instead of using the software directly on the licensed device, you may install and use the software within only one virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system on the licensed device. When used in a virtualized environment, content protected by digital rights management technology, BitLocker or any full volume disk drive encryption technology may not be as secure as protected content not in a virtualized environment. You should comply with all domestic and international laws that apply to such protected content. It doesn't mention anything about OEM or not, just that if you are licensed to use Vista on a given device then you are licensed to use it in one virtual machine instance on that same device. At least that is how I read the above text. Of course it says that it is instead of using it directly on the device, so no running vista as a guest under vista with only the one license it would appear. I believe ultimate on the other hand does permit doing so with I think up to 4 guest instances. I would have to check the license again. Its not like I have vista ultimate or anything to actually do it with. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 19:33:24 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:33:24 -0500 Subject: Place to get (Thinkpad) laptop battery in Toronto/GTA? Message-ID: <4798E804.3050106@alteeve.com> Hi all, I am drawing a blank looking for places to get a replacement laptop battery. Specifically, I want an IBM FRU 92P1077, 92P1073 or 92P1069 (6.6/7.2Ah 9cell for the T40). Anyone know anywhere in Toronto, Mississauga (or anywhere as west as Burlington, as east as Scarborough or north towards Vaughn/Markham) what I might try calling? Thanks all! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 20:12:02 2008 From: vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Vic Gedris) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:12:02 -0500 Subject: Place to get (Thinkpad) laptop battery in Toronto/GTA? In-Reply-To: <4798E804.3050106-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4798E804.3050106@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <9858fafd0801241212o183acd13of5ebe11b56fd5478@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 24, 2008 2:33 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I am drawing a blank looking for places to get a replacement laptop > battery. Specifically, I want an IBM FRU 92P1077, 92P1073 or 92P1069 > (6.6/7.2Ah 9cell for the T40). > > Anyone know anywhere in Toronto, Mississauga (or anywhere as west as > Burlington, as east as Scarborough or north towards Vaughn/Markham) what > I might try calling? It looks like CDW carries some compatible batteries: http://www.cdw.ca/shop/search/results.aspx?grp=NBB&key=T40&idesc=1 I don't think they have an actual "store" you can go to, but they deliver... Cheers, Vic -- Vic Gedris Toronto, Ontario, Canada http://vic.gedris.org/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 20:23:33 2008 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:23:33 -0500 Subject: Place to get (Thinkpad) laptop battery in Toronto/GTA? In-Reply-To: <4798E804.3050106-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4798E804.3050106@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4798F3C5.8000809@primus.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Specifically, I want an IBM FRU 92P1077, 92P1073 or 92P1069 > (6.6/7.2Ah 9cell for the T40). > > Anyone know anywhere in Toronto, Mississauga, Burlington, > Scarborough, Vaughn/Markham where I might try calling? NOT what you asked for... sorry. You want brick and mortar, local, etc. I don't know howcum -- time constraints? For you, a round-trip to Scarborough would cost ~$overnight shipping. Whatever. Have a look here (or don't): http://www.laptopcharge.com/Canada/product_index03.asp?DEP_ID=1&CAT_id=1&Brand_ID=36&mode_id=1&PNO=20.22.042.01 $79.99 (new) UPS/Purolator (Insurance & Tracking Included): Ground CAD $12.00 2-7 Business Days Express CAD $16.00 1-2 Business Days Overnight CAD $30.00 Next Business Day -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 20:32:27 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:32:27 -0500 Subject: Place to get (Thinkpad) laptop battery in Toronto/GTA? In-Reply-To: <4798E804.3050106-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4798E804.3050106@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4798F5DB.8070008@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I am drawing a blank looking for places to get a replacement laptop > battery. Specifically, I want an IBM FRU 92P1077, 92P1073 or 92P1069 > (6.6/7.2Ah 9cell for the T40). > > Anyone know anywhere in Toronto, Mississauga (or anywhere as west as > Burlington, as east as Scarborough or north towards Vaughn/Markham) what > I might try calling? I ordered one from Lenovo, for my R31, as by the time I got through shipping etc., there wasn't much difference from after market stuff. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 21:15:39 2008 From: sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris Gow) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:15:39 -0500 Subject: Place to get (Thinkpad) laptop battery in Toronto/GTA? In-Reply-To: <4798F3C5.8000809-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4798E804.3050106@alteeve.com> <4798F3C5.8000809@primus.ca> Message-ID: <200801241615.39439.sniffy@rogers.com> On Thursday 24 January 2008 15:23:33 George Nicol wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: > > > > Anyone know anywhere in Toronto, Mississauga, Burlington, > > Scarborough, Vaughn/Markham where I might try calling? > > NOT what you asked for... sorry. You want brick and mortar, local, etc. > I don't know howcum -- time constraints? For you, a round-trip to > Scarborough would cost ~$overnight shipping. Whatever. > > Have a look here (or don't): > > http://www.laptopcharge.com/Canada/product_index03.asp?DEP_ID=1&CAT_id=1&Br >and_ID=36&mode_id=1&PNO=20.22.042.01 > > $79.99 (new) > > UPS/Purolator (Insurance & Tracking Included): > > Ground CAD $12.00 2-7 Business Days > Express CAD $16.00 1-2 Business Days > Overnight CAD $30.00 Next Business Day Interesting. Have you dealt with this company? How reliable are they? -- chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 21:17:27 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 13:17:27 -0800 Subject: Fwd: OLPC Crisis: Customer Data Lost In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Kristian Erik Hermansen Date: Jan 24, 2008 1:05 PM Subject: OLPC Crisis: Customer Data Lost To: olpc-sf-oU9gvf+ajcRuEWckB3OYtg at public.gmane.org I have posted some info about the situation to Linux Journal, where I am on the advisory panel... http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/olpc-crisis-customer-data-lost -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 21:39:55 2008 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:39:55 -0500 Subject: Place to get (Thinkpad) laptop battery in Toronto/GTA? In-Reply-To: <200801241615.39439.sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4798E804.3050106@alteeve.com> <4798F3C5.8000809@primus.ca> <200801241615.39439.sniffy@rogers.com> Message-ID: <479905AB.7050008@primus.ca> Chris Gow wrote: > George Nicol wrote: >> >> http://www.laptopcharge.com/Canada/product_index03.asp?DEP_ID=1&CAT_id=1&Br >> and_ID=36&mode_id=1&PNO=20.22.042.01 >> >> $79.99 (new) >> >> UPS/Purolator (Insurance & Tracking Included): >> >> Ground CAD $12.00 2-7 Business Days >> Express CAD $16.00 1-2 Business Days >> Overnight CAD $30.00 Next Business Day > > Interesting. Have you dealt with this company? How reliable are they? Nope. Never. Just tried to be of help to Madi because turnabout's fair. Seemed to me, 1) there was a problem sourcing locally, 2) maybe time was of the essence, 3) the border wouldn't be a problem (Vancouver supplier), 4) the cost seemed not too bad for new. I "assume" they have stock. Dangerous, I know. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 21:43:47 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:43:47 -0500 Subject: Place to get (Thinkpad) laptop battery in Toronto/GTA? In-Reply-To: <4798E804.3050106-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4798E804.3050106@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <47990693.60800@rogers.com> There is a place called the Laptop Repair company (or a name close to that) and they are located on Eglinton south side, 1 1/2 blocks west of the Allen. Very good chance they can help. Good luck. Stephen Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I am drawing a blank looking for places to get a replacement laptop > battery. Specifically, I want an IBM FRU 92P1077, 92P1073 or 92P1069 > (6.6/7.2Ah 9cell for the T40). > > Anyone know anywherere is place called the Lpe in Toronto, Mississauga (or anywhere as west as > Burlington, as east as Scarborough or north towards Vaughn/Markham) what > I might try calling? > > Thanks all! > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 22:00:52 2008 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 22:00:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: shredding files on a flash drive References: <20080118175123.GD2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080119235727.GG3638@adb.ca> <20080120185343.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080120222338.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080121185413.GC7124@adb.ca> Message-ID: Christopher Browne writes: > A problem with Guttmann's paper is that it seems to posit somewhat > more "magical" means of data recovery than seems to actually exist. A credible wipe algorythm must be opportunistic in a way that covers all the recovery methods, hypothetical or real, known or suspected to exist at the date of its writing. The Guttmann paper is/was/seems to have been that. wipe(1) implements most of it. The way I see it is, ordinary people who use ordinary equipment and do not run an ore smelting furnace and a metal chipper in the back yard for 'credibly secure' disposal (as slag, chips, ingots etc), occasionally need (or think that they need) to wipe certain files from their systems (or may be required by law to do so). So the Guttmann paper and wipe(1) do mostly that, they fulfill that need. It also helps that wipe(1) is a part of most current Linux distributions so there is no need to fumble with strange packages or download them from a possibly tracked website. Just one thing: If the Gestapo is about to knock your door down do not bother with wipe(1). It is far too slow. Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 22:07:41 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 17:07:41 -0500 Subject: ubuntu 7.10 won't boot In-Reply-To: <20080124140207.GB16172-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080123210136.12414.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080124140207.GB16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <47990C2D.6090700@chrisaitken.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jan 23, 2008 at 04:01:36PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> I can't boot my ubuntu 7.10 system. >> >> I'm getting this: >> >> Starting up... >> Loading, please wait... >> usplash: Setting mode 1280X1024 failed >> usplash: Setting mode 1152X864 failed >> usplash: Setting mode 1024X768 failed >> usplash: Using mode 800X600 >> kinit: name_to_dev_t (/dev/md1) + md1(9,7) >> kinit: trying to resume from /dev/md1 >> kinit: No resume image, doing normal boot... >> >> Ubuntu 7.10 cpc tty1 >> >> I don't know if my (brand-new) hard drive is crashing or what. I went into >> the BIOS to see if there was any IRQ conflict with my emu1212m pci card (I >> haven't been able to initialize it under alsa) - I made a change and >> rebooted and got the above. So, I went innto the BIOS and restored default >> settings. I'm still getting the above error. At the prompt I logged in as >> root and tried to run init 5 - that did nothing - same for init 3. init 1 >> got me to another screen but I don't know what to do in init 1 anyway. >> >> Any ideas? I'm emailing this through webmail on another machine. i guess >> you can tell from the above that I have set up RAID not that I would know >> how to restore from RAID but I thought the point of RAID is that if a hard >> drive goes the other will take over. >> > > Did you change the controller settings in the BIOS? That could make > Linux unable to see your HD which would make booting fail. > Well, I was in the PCI Devices section. There seems to be, like, six things on IRQs 5, 10, and 11. > Maybe you should try loading the default settings in the BIOS and see if > that solves anything. > I did that (see above) - it didn't help. > And your emu1212m problems are not IRQ related, they are caused by the > I don't know if you saw the other thread but after my crazy boot (drops down to command-line and I have to log in user then run 'startx' and I don't have Shut Down privilege) I tried alsamixer and this time it sees the emu1212m card! Either my flailing in the BIOS, or my removal then re-installation of all things alsa (since the correct repo is now in apt/sources.list) corerct6ed the problem. > driver for some unknown reason not being able to find the firmware file > that is clearly on the disk (so it must be looking somewhere else). > > I suppose it is possible whatever hte problem is was fixed in alsa > 1.0.15, but I am not sure. Didn't you have all this working under > fedora before? If you did what version of alsa was that? > I don't remember. Alsa sees the emu1212m fine now. Chris > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 22:23:35 2008 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 22:23:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: shredding files on a flash drive References: <20080119235727.GG3638@adb.ca> <20080120185343.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080120222338.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080121185413.GC7124@adb.ca> <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Kristian Erik Hermansen writes: > overwritten many times to become 'secured'. The know one sure way to > secure a drive, and that it is smash it with a sledgehammer and throw > it in the fire. But, apparently just dd'ing with zeros *once* is > sufficient... Older people like me, who once upon a time made good money by adjusting floppy drive heads (and in the process discovered very interesting files left there and believed wiped by the floppy owners - no we did NOT like that, having two positions for the set screws that result in apparently correct readout of the disk is NOT helpful - there is supposed to be only one), will ASSURE you that writing magnetic media with anything will not erase the previous recording, it will just make it significantly less readable. Trust me, it's the way it is. And the hammer is for things you put in the garbage and you do not want to show up a week later at the second hand hardware shops around the corner. Also a little physics research will show that an ordinary fire is not hot enough to get at the data on a hard disk although the platters may no longer be playable in their original [tm] intended manner after that. A credible way to get rid of hard disks is to heat them to the melting point of the coatings on the platters (over 1500 deg C probably due to the exotic materials used) and then shred, forge or cut them up while hot. For flash drives, you may be surprised to find out that the semiconductor chips will not degrade significantly during exposure to the 500-600 degrees C of a small fire over a few minutes, no matter how impressive the exterior charring and flames. They undergo such torture (and worse) during manufacture, where some process temperatures exceed 1200 degrees C. Of course maintaining charge is not guaranteed at such parameters but you you bet on it if there's something important on the chip ? The most important rule of the security industry seems to be 'if you thought it up and checked it out to be bullet proof with a couple of friends then it must have been known since the time of the Pharaohs (and its countermeasure too, obviously)'. I would not touch sec. ind. But, hey, psst, I know an infallible way to and then . It's perfect. But we'll have to kill you if you find it out. Muahahaha. :) Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 22:54:53 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:54:53 -0800 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080120222338.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080121185413.GC7124@adb.ca> <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Jan 24, 2008 2:23 PM, Peter P. wrote: > writing magnetic media with anything will not erase the previous recording, it > will just make it significantly less readable. Trust me, it's the way it is. And That claim is apparently false, by numerous rebuttals to the Guttmann paper. I will assume that the rebuttals are correct until someone can prove that. Btw, I also have a question for you :-) Q: You open a hard disk drive case enclosure, remove the actuator and screws for the platters, and place two platters on your desk. The data was intact and not overwritten when you pulled them from the caseing. Can you recover the data on the platters? A: No. -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 23:29:47 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 18:29:47 -0500 Subject: ubuntu 7.10 won't boot In-Reply-To: <20080124140207.GB16172-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080123210136.12414.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080124140207.GB16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <47991F6B.2060007@chrisaitken.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I suppose it is possible whatever hte problem is was fixed in alsa > 1.0.15, but I am not sure. Didn't you have all this working under > fedora before? Sorry, I didn't answer that. Yes, I did have it working under fedora 7. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 00:13:30 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 19:13:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Vista Home license now allows virtualization In-Reply-To: <20080124180717.GC16172-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080124135801.GA16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080124180717.GC16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 11:47:42AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > This Microsoft page says "If you obtained the software pre-loaded on a | > device from a manufacturer, consult the license terms that came with | > the software on that device." | Hmm, interesting. Reading the license agreement on microsoft's web site | when you select for example windows vista you get this in the | suplemental licence PDF: When I tried the site, it stubornly refused to show any license. Maybe they fixed it. | | If you are licensed to use Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic, Home Premium, Business, or Ultimate, or | Service Pack 1 of any of these Windows Vista editions (the "software"), you have the following license | right. If there is a conflict with any past or future license terms for the software, this supplemental | license term applies. | | Use with Virtualization Technologies. Instead of using the software directly on the licensed device, | you may install and use the software within only one virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system on | the licensed device. When used in a virtualized environment, content protected by digital rights | management technology, BitLocker or any full volume disk drive encryption technology may not be as | secure as protected content not in a virtualized environment. You should comply with all domestic and | international laws that apply to such protected content. | Nice. I don't know how to tell which of their rubric's apply: go consult the EULA you got, or here's a bonus right. | It doesn't mention anything about OEM or not, just that if you are | licensed to use Vista on a given device then you are licensed to use it | in one virtual machine instance on that same device. At least that is | how I read the above text. Of course it says that it is instead of | using it directly on the device, so no running vista as a guest under | vista with only the one license it would appear. Damn, they are forcing me to use Linux :-) :-) | I believe ultimate on | the other hand does permit doing so with I think up to 4 guest | instances. I would have to check the license again. Its not like I | have vista ultimate or anything to actually do it with. I've been force-fed three Vista Home licenses so far. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 14:30:46 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:30:46 -0500 Subject: Place to get (Thinkpad) laptop battery in Toronto/GTA? In-Reply-To: <479905AB.7050008-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4798E804.3050106@alteeve.com> <4798F3C5.8000809@primus.ca> <200801241615.39439.sniffy@rogers.com> <479905AB.7050008@primus.ca> Message-ID: <20080125143046.GD16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 04:39:55PM -0500, George Nicol wrote: > Nope. Never. Just tried to be of help to Madi because turnabout's fair. > Seemed to me, 1) there was a problem sourcing locally, 2) maybe time > was of the essence, 3) the border wouldn't be a problem (Vancouver > supplier), 4) the cost seemed not too bad for new. > > I "assume" they have stock. Dangerous, I know. I also discovered recently that many companies that are based in BC don't charge PST to out of province orders, which actually ends up as a bit of a savings. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 15:34:09 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:34:09 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080120222338.GV2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080121185413.GC7124@adb.ca> <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 02:54:53PM -0800, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > That claim is apparently false, by numerous rebuttals to the Guttmann > paper. I will assume that the rebuttals are correct until someone can > prove that. Btw, I also have a question for you :-) > > Q: You open a hard disk drive case enclosure, remove the actuator and > screws for the platters, and place two platters on your desk. The > data was intact and not overwritten when you pulled them from the > caseing. Can you recover the data on the platters? > A: No. My guess would be yes. What reason do you have for saying it is no? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 15:36:56 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:36:56 -0500 Subject: Vista Home license now allows virtualization In-Reply-To: References: <20080124135801.GA16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080124180717.GC16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080125153656.GF16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 07:13:30PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | > | If you are licensed to use Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic, Home Premium, Business, or Ultimate, or > | Service Pack 1 of any of these Windows Vista editions (the "software"), you have the following license > | right. If there is a conflict with any past or future license terms for the software, this supplemental > | license term applies. > | > | Use with Virtualization Technologies. Instead of using the software directly on the licensed device, > | you may install and use the software within only one virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system on > | the licensed device. When used in a virtualized environment, content protected by digital rights > | management technology, BitLocker or any full volume disk drive encryption technology may not be as > | secure as protected content not in a virtualized environment. You should comply with all domestic and > | international laws that apply to such protected content. > | > > Nice. I don't know how to tell which of their rubric's apply: go > consult the EULA you got, or here's a bonus right. How about the part "If there is a conflict with any past or future license terms for the software, this supplemental license term applies."? So they can't revoke this later? Is Vista selling that badly? :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 17:49:40 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:49:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: Vista Home license now allows virtualization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: [Notice that I'm top posting. In this case I think it is logical.] Now that we've chewed over the legal aspects (important!), has anybody any experience or thoughts on the technical aspects of trying to run an OEM Windows Vista, with no installation medium, under some Linux-hosted virtualization system? | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | | http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080121-microsoft-relents-vista-virtualization-ban-lifted.html | | Now: how can I pick up my pre-installed Vista by the scruff of the neck | and run it under Xen or whatever? | | I'm pessimistic. I suspect that the pre-installed Vista, and the restore | disk, won't run because the virtual evironment has different I/O devices. | Even if it has drivers for the virtual devices, it might guess that it is | being pirated because so many things in its environment changed all at | once. | | Has anyone tried this? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 17:51:43 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:51:43 -0800 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <20080125153409.GE16172-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080121185413.GC7124@adb.ca> <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Jan 25, 2008 7:34 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 02:54:53PM -0800, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > > That claim is apparently false, by numerous rebuttals to the Guttmann > > paper. I will assume that the rebuttals are correct until someone can > > prove that. Btw, I also have a question for you :-) > > > > Q: You open a hard disk drive case enclosure, remove the actuator and > > screws for the platters, and place two platters on your desk. The > > data was intact and not overwritten when you pulled them from the > > caseing. Can you recover the data on the platters? > > A: No. > > My guess would be yes. What reason do you have for saying it is no? I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. Go forth and study on your own disk if you like :-) The reason is that once the platters are removed, they can never be aligned in the same way that they were manufactured. Thus, an multi-platter hard disk data is unrecoverable, by any means... -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 17:56:31 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:56:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Place to get (Thinkpad) laptop battery in Toronto/GTA? In-Reply-To: <20080125143046.GD16172-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4798E804.3050106@alteeve.com> <4798F3C5.8000809@primus.ca> <200801241615.39439.sniffy@rogers.com> <479905AB.7050008@primus.ca> <20080125143046.GD16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | I also discovered recently that many companies that are based in BC | don't charge PST to out of province orders, which actually ends up as a | bit of a savings. Technically you are supposed to pay Ontario PST. The out-of-province vendor does not need to collect it but you are obliged to pay it yourself. I know of a case where the Ontario government did go after retail customers for this. They found the customers from the customer list of the vendor. Not surprisingly, I don't want to go into details for privacy reasons. It is probably hard to figure out how frequently this happens because of privacy concerns. I suspect it is very rare. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 19:00:36 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:00:36 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080121185413.GC7124@adb.ca> <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <479A31D4.8010505@rogers.com> Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > On Jan 25, 2008 7:34 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 02:54:53PM -0800, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: >>> That claim is apparently false, by numerous rebuttals to the Guttmann >>> paper. I will assume that the rebuttals are correct until someone can >>> prove that. Btw, I also have a question for you :-) >>> >>> Q: You open a hard disk drive case enclosure, remove the actuator and >>> screws for the platters, and place two platters on your desk. The >>> data was intact and not overwritten when you pulled them from the >>> caseing. Can you recover the data on the platters? >>> A: No. >> My guess would be yes. What reason do you have for saying it is no? > > I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. Go forth and study on your own > disk if you like :-) The reason is that once the platters are > removed, they can never be aligned in the same way that they were > manufactured. Thus, an multi-platter hard disk data is unrecoverable, > by any means... Can you be so certain? Many years ago, I used to maintain mini-computer systems, including disk drives. There were many times I would repair a drive after a head crash and then do an alignment of the heads etc. When you do that, one thing that's obvious is that the data is recorded in clearly identifiable tracks, which you can locate by watching the recovered signal with an oscilloscope. What's to stop someone from reassembling those platters in a similar drive and, with perhaps some effort, recovering that data? It may be difficult, but I not impossible. I know it's possible to align a drive to the data on a disk, because I've done it. You might also want to talk to someone in the data recovery business. IIRC, there was a presentation by one such person at a TLUG meeting a few years back. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 19:23:08 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 11:23:08 -0800 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <479A31D4.8010505-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479A31D4.8010505@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Jan 25, 2008 11:00 AM, James Knott wrote: > Can you be so certain? Many years ago, I used to maintain mini-computer > systems, including disk drives. There were many times I would repair a > drive after a head crash and then do an alignment of the heads etc. > When you do that, one thing that's obvious is that the data is recorded > in clearly identifiable tracks, which you can locate by watching the > recovered signal with an oscilloscope. What's to stop someone from > reassembling those platters in a similar drive and, with perhaps some > effort, recovering that data? It may be difficult, but I not > impossible. I know it's possible to align a drive to the data on a > disk, because I've done it. You might also want to talk to someone in > the data recovery business. IIRC, there was a presentation by one such > person at a TLUG meeting a few years back. I have spoken to people in the data forensics field, yes. With multi-platter disk drives, I encourage anyone to prove me (and the forensics guys) wrong. The problem is that newer disks are aligned and sealed at the same time in the factory. The tracking information is written to the disk while it is enclosed. I don't see how you would determine how to align the tracks from data which you cannot determine is valid data or not. Please explain and show proof. Btw, I have done and consulted with forensics experts about the situation you speak of -- using a similar drive to recover data. I encourage anyone to provide evidence that it is possible. There is no evidence, that I have seen, to support it. However, there is a multitude of evidence to show that once you misalign the platters, your data is toast... -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 19:33:31 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 19:33:31 +0000 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <479A31D4.8010505-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479A31D4.8010505@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Jan 25, 2008 7:00 PM, James Knott wrote: > Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > > On Jan 25, 2008 7:34 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 02:54:53PM -0800, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > >>> That claim is apparently false, by numerous rebuttals to the Guttmann > >>> paper. I will assume that the rebuttals are correct until someone can > >>> prove that. Btw, I also have a question for you :-) > >>> > >>> Q: You open a hard disk drive case enclosure, remove the actuator and > >>> screws for the platters, and place two platters on your desk. The > >>> data was intact and not overwritten when you pulled them from the > >>> caseing. Can you recover the data on the platters? > >>> A: No. > >> My guess would be yes. What reason do you have for saying it is no? > > > > I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. Go forth and study on your own > > disk if you like :-) The reason is that once the platters are > > removed, they can never be aligned in the same way that they were > > manufactured. Thus, an multi-platter hard disk data is unrecoverable, > > by any means... > > Can you be so certain? Many years ago, I used to maintain mini-computer > systems, including disk drives. There were many times I would repair a > drive after a head crash and then do an alignment of the heads etc. > When you do that, one thing that's obvious is that the data is recorded > in clearly identifiable tracks, which you can locate by watching the > recovered signal with an oscilloscope. What's to stop someone from > reassembling those platters in a similar drive and, with perhaps some > effort, recovering that data? It may be difficult, but I not > impossible. I know it's possible to align a drive to the data on a > disk, because I've done it. You might also want to talk to someone in > the data recovery business. IIRC, there was a presentation by one such > person at a TLUG meeting a few years back. It seems as though the frantic efforts to pack more and more data onto drives has been leading to this aspect becoming more and more fragile over time. There are two views that are both simultaneously worth taking: 1. The complexities and fragilities of data encoding have increased to the degree that it's common that companies like ActionFront that are engaged in this sort of thing are unlikely to be able to economically provide any results at all unless the disk drive is almost entirely intact. With this perspective, anything that you do that might penetrate inside the case of the storage device would be likely to prevent recovery. 2. On the other hand, if some agency (government or commercial) were to devote resources to the matter, they could probably come up with a way of pulling signals and hence information off disks even with "damage" such as having removed plates from the drive. It MIGHT be that some agency has spent the billions required to do this; we don't know. In practice, there is little evidence that there is anything better than "approach #1" out there. That neither proves nor disproves the possible existence of "approach #2." Agencies like the NSA, CIA, and FBI would probably be pretty happy to hide instances of equipment that can do "approach #2." The fact that they'd be likely to deny the existence of such doesn't prove anything one way or another. A paranoid view dictates trying to protect even against "approach #2," as, even if it doesn't exist, it could emerge later, and it might be used retroactively for forensics. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 19:38:45 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:38:45 -0500 Subject: X/boot/emu1212m In-Reply-To: <4797ED65.8010905-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4797C194.1050204@chrisaitken.net> <4797ED65.8010905@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <479A3AC5.8000707@chrisaitken.net> Christopher Aitken wrote: > Christopher Aitken wrote: >> It seems that a couple of problems are converging. I'm having trouble >> booting and seems I've lost some regular user ('chris') privileges. >> However, on a whim, I decided to try alsa again. Guess what? Alsa now >> sees the emu1212m pci card for the first time! Now alsa does /not/ see the emu1212m pci soundcard. Though it's been strongly suggested that this has nothing to do with IRQs, everytime I adjust an IRQ alsa either starts seeing the card or stops seeing the card. >> >> I thought I'd start another thread here rather than go back and forth >> between threads. >> >> What I did before I had the boot/X/user problem was I did apt-get >> remove on hte following apps: >> >> alsa-oss >> alsa-base >> alsa-tools >> alsa-utils >> alsa-source >> alsa-firmware >> >> then re-installed them all. I figured this may do something good now >> that I have the correct repositry in apt/sources.list. >> >> Then I went into the BIOS and changed an IRQ. >> >> Now I have X and user problems The only regular user ('chris') problem now is that I am not able to Shut Down the system. I have to do 'sudo shutdown now'. i can't log off either. When I tried I got (at least the part of the screen I could see): (II) Module already built-in (EE) AIGLX: Screen 0 isnot DRI capable SetClientVersion: 09 SetGrabKeysState - disabled SetGrabKeysState - enabled SetGrabKeysState - disabled SetGrabKeysState - enabled SetGrabKeysState - disabled SetGrabKeysState - enabled SetGrabKeysState - disabled SetGrabKeysState - enabled waiting for X server to shutdown... chris at cpc:~$ > I can't shut down (not as user anyway) - when I go to System>Quit I > have all the options (Hibernate, Switch User et al. but no 'Shut > Down'). How can I give myself permission to Shut Down again (or is > part of a larger problem I need to address?)? I guess I lost the > permission with this latest boot trouble. I'm wondering if the CMOS battery is dying. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 19:41:24 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:41:24 -0500 Subject: X/boot/emu1212m In-Reply-To: <479A3AC5.8000707-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4797C194.1050204@chrisaitken.net> <4797ED65.8010905@chrisaitken.net> <479A3AC5.8000707@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <479A3B64.8050607@chrisaitken.net> Christopher Aitken wrote: > Christopher Aitken wrote: >> Christopher Aitken wrote: >>> It seems that a couple of problems are converging. I'm having >>> trouble booting and seems I've lost some regular user ('chris') >>> privileges. However, on a whim, I decided to try alsa again. Guess >>> what? Alsa now sees the emu1212m pci card for the first time! > > Now alsa does /not/ see the emu1212m pci soundcard. Though it's been > strongly suggested that this has nothing to do with IRQs, everytime I > adjust an IRQ alsa either starts seeing the card or stops seeing the > card. Since I want to use the emu1212m pci card and not the onboard Intel card am I correct to assume that setting 'Compaq Audio Device' to 'Disabled' in the BIOS is a good idea? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 19:40:54 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:40:54 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479A31D4.8010505@rogers.com> Message-ID: <479A3B46.60808@rogers.com> Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > On Jan 25, 2008 11:00 AM, James Knott wrote: >> Can you be so certain? Many years ago, I used to maintain mini-computer >> systems, including disk drives. There were many times I would repair a >> drive after a head crash and then do an alignment of the heads etc. >> When you do that, one thing that's obvious is that the data is recorded >> in clearly identifiable tracks, which you can locate by watching the >> recovered signal with an oscilloscope. What's to stop someone from >> reassembling those platters in a similar drive and, with perhaps some >> effort, recovering that data? It may be difficult, but I not >> impossible. I know it's possible to align a drive to the data on a >> disk, because I've done it. You might also want to talk to someone in >> the data recovery business. IIRC, there was a presentation by one such >> person at a TLUG meeting a few years back. > > I have spoken to people in the data forensics field, yes. With > multi-platter disk drives, I encourage anyone to prove me (and the > forensics guys) wrong. The problem is that newer disks are aligned > and sealed at the same time in the factory. The tracking information > is written to the disk while it is enclosed. I don't see how you > would determine how to align the tracks from data which you cannot > determine is valid data or not. Please explain and show proof. Btw, > I have done and consulted with forensics experts about the situation > you speak of -- using a similar drive to recover data. I encourage > anyone to provide evidence that it is possible. There is no evidence, > that I have seen, to support it. However, there is a multitude of > evidence to show that once you misalign the platters, your data is > toast... First, read up on how data is recorded on the platters. It is in concentric tracks. By moving the head gradually across the surface of the disk, you will see where the data lies. The tracks themselves provided the alignment information, that the drive uses to maintain the head position. The tracks also contain the clock, used for data recovery. Please note, I am not saying that you could simply drop the platter into another drive and read them as though they were in the original drive. It may take a significant amount of effort. But as long as you can move a head across the surface and read the signal, the data can recovered. But then again, what do I know? I'm only a former computer tech, who used to do disk repairs as part of my job. Perhaps you should ask some of those people how many drives they've repaired. BTW, some of the drives I used to work on had as many as 20 surfaces. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 19:50:34 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:50:34 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479A31D4.8010505@rogers.com> Message-ID: <479A3D8A.8040208@rogers.com> Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > On Jan 25, 2008 11:00 AM, James Knott wrote: >> Can you be so certain? Many years ago, I used to maintain mini-computer >> systems, including disk drives. There were many times I would repair a >> drive after a head crash and then do an alignment of the heads etc. >> When you do that, one thing that's obvious is that the data is recorded >> in clearly identifiable tracks, which you can locate by watching the >> recovered signal with an oscilloscope. What's to stop someone from >> reassembling those platters in a similar drive and, with perhaps some >> effort, recovering that data? It may be difficult, but I not >> impossible. I know it's possible to align a drive to the data on a >> disk, because I've done it. You might also want to talk to someone in >> the data recovery business. IIRC, there was a presentation by one such >> person at a TLUG meeting a few years back. > > I have spoken to people in the data forensics field, yes. With > multi-platter disk drives, I encourage anyone to prove me (and the > forensics guys) wrong. The problem is that newer disks are aligned > and sealed at the same time in the factory. The tracking information > is written to the disk while it is enclosed. I don't see how you > would determine how to align the tracks from data which you cannot > determine is valid data or not. Please explain and show proof. Btw, > I have done and consulted with forensics experts about the situation > you speak of -- using a similar drive to recover data. I encourage > anyone to provide evidence that it is possible. There is no evidence, > that I have seen, to support it. However, there is a multitude of > evidence to show that once you misalign the platters, your data is > toast... Further on this. Here's a link from a data recovery service. http://www.salvagedata.ca/hard-drive-recovery/ And a quote from that page: "We provide recovery service for all types of hard drives including SCSI, ATA, IDE, and SATA internal drives. Our detailed comprehension of these storage devices makes for a quick and easy recovery and, when needed, a team of senior engineers can develop custom solutions for even the most complicated recoveries. With years of experience behind us, we've rightfully established our credibility as the lead experts, specializing in the field of professional hard drive data recovery. We support and perform data recovery on drives of all makes, models and sizes, from the latest quarter-sized mircodrives to the oldest Bigfoot ATA hard drives. SalvageData engineers utilize an exclusive knowledgebase, consisting of technical expertise and valuable industry experience to produce first-rate results. Our advanced HDD recovery tools, combined with the credentials gained from working on a wide range of drive failure and disaster recovery cases, make us the trusted source for experts seeking critical data recovery services. Through years of industry involvement, SalvageData has established a sterling reputation for recovering data from failed computer hard disk drives (HDD), with an unparalleled rate of success. We provide recovery service for all types of hard drives including SCSI, ATA, IDE, and SATA internal drives. Our detailed comprehension of these storage devices makes for a quick and easy recovery and, when needed, a team of senior engineers can develop custom solutions for even the most complicated recoveries. Organizations, businesses, and individual home users can be comfortable when turning to SalvageData Canada for their hard drive recovery needs. When the data matters most, you can be sure that your hard drive is in good hands with our qualified SalvageData Canada experts. Our commitment and dedication to R&D allows us to support more hardware and system platforms than most competitors. So, regardless of how the data loss occurred, we have the expertise to recover data that others might simply consider unrecoverable." They work with more than just deleted files. They recover data from drives with severe hardware damage. Sometimes, such as after a fire, the only recourse is to pull the platters out and mount them in a similar drive. IIRC, this was mentioned by the presenter at the TLUG meeting a few years back. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 19:59:06 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:59:06 -0500 Subject: X/boot/emu1212m In-Reply-To: <479A3B64.8050607-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4797C194.1050204@chrisaitken.net> <4797ED65.8010905@chrisaitken.net> <479A3AC5.8000707@chrisaitken.net> <479A3B64.8050607@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <479A3F8A.1020408@chrisaitken.net> Christopher Aitken wrote: >> >> Now alsa does /not/ see the emu1212m pci soundcard. Though it's been >> strongly suggested that this has nothing to do with IRQs, everytime I >> adjust an IRQ alsa either starts seeing the card or stops seeing the >> card. I just opened the case, pulled the CMOS battery then put it back in. I booted and now alsa sees the emu1212m card again. It's this kind of thing that makes me keep thinking of IRQ conflicts. Pulling/inserting CMOS battery resets the IRQs to default. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 20:16:46 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 15:16:46 -0500 Subject: X/boot/emu1212m In-Reply-To: <479A3B64.8050607-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4797C194.1050204@chrisaitken.net> <4797ED65.8010905@chrisaitken.net> <479A3AC5.8000707@chrisaitken.net> <479A3B64.8050607@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <479A43AE.8070703@chrisaitken.net> Christopher Aitken wrote: > Since I want to use the emu1212m pci card and not the onboard Intel > card am I correct to assume that setting 'Compaq Audio Device' to > 'Disabled' in the BIOS is a good idea? It looks like is a bad idea. I tried setting 'Compaq Audio Device' to 'Disabled' in the BIOS and when I booted up, alsa did not see the emu1212m. When I reset it to IRQ 10 (the BIOS default) the emu1212m was detected again. So, I guess the emu1212m need the 'Compaq Audio Device'. Maybe the 'Compaq Audio Device' is not the same as the onboard Intel card. Maybe it just controls whatever card (onboard or other) you are using... Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 20:19:06 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:19:06 -0800 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <479A3D8A.8040208-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479A31D4.8010505@rogers.com> <479A3D8A.8040208@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Jan 25, 2008 11:50 AM, James Knott wrote: > They work with more than just deleted files. They recover data from > drives with severe hardware damage. Sometimes, such as after a fire, > the only recourse is to pull the platters out and mount them in a > similar drive. IIRC, this was mentioned by the presenter at the TLUG > meeting a few years back. What you are perhaps referring to is a spin-stand. However, you *cannot* separate the platters and recover the data. The reason is that the tracking/data are written to multiple platters, and if minute misalignment occurs, you cannot determine what bit is what bit. You just have garbage bits. You also need to know the coding the drive uses. This varies widely among manufacturers. The most elegant hack would be to somehow replace the parts that were damaged and somehow keep the platters perfectly aligned when you swap them into a similar drive. Then, data recovery may perhaps be possible, but not if the platters become misaligned (and still it is very difficult to perfect -- yes it is possible). I think it is wise that you invest in reading the following two PDF documents this weekend from the site below. Still note, misaligned platters spell doom! http://www.actionfront.com/ts_whitepaper.aspx http://www.actionfront.com/whitepaper/Drive-Independent%20Data%20Recovery%20Ver14Alrs.pdf http://www.actionfront.com/whitepaper/Drive%20Independent%20Data%20Recovery%20TMRC2005%20Preprint.pdf I encourage you to read the entire articles, but if you are not inclined, here is a short summary. This does not substitute for the wealth of information contained in those two entire documents however! ""' 4.1.4 Move the Disks to Another Drive If the base casting is badly damaged, or the spindle motor is burned out, or the spindle bearings have seized, it is necessary to remove the disks from the failed drive. These disks must be re-mounted on the spindle motor of a good drive. This procedure requires all the skill of head replacement with the additional skill of remounting disks without further damaging them. It is very important to preserve the spacing between the disks and their rotational alignment to each other. This makes the possibility of servoing on the remounted disks much more likely. Furthermore, if two highly polished surfaces, such as those on disks or heads, touch they can become bonded together. This is usually called stiction. If two disk surfaces become bonded in this manner, it is usually impossible to separate them without causing excessive, but microscopic, damage. Once the good heads are loaded onto the remounted disks, the power-on procedure can begin. 4.2 "Magic Machines" and "Proprietary Processes" Reading some data recovery websites can lead one to believe that they have "Magic Machines" that routinely recover data from failed drives. I saw no evidence or independent verification that such devices exist for commercially viable data recovery. If they do have a magic machine it may have been created for a high-value job in the past, and probably only worked marginally. Drive-Independent Data Recovery www.ChannelScience.com Page 18 ChannelScience It is very telling that the US Department of Defense's Combating Terrorism Technology Support Office recently placed a "Broad Agency Announcement" seeking just such a magic machine for damaged, erased, or overwritten media [8]. Any "Proprietary Processes" cited by data recovery companies are likely to be custom fixtures, such as combs, and handling procedures for replacing failed parts without causing additional damage. Companies may also have written their own proprietary software tools for re-assembling recovered sectors into useful files. However, there are very special machines used by drive manufacturers for the design and analysis of drive components. It is often suggested that these precision instruments, spin-stand testers and magnetic force microscopes (MFMs), can be used for data recovery. 4.2.1 Spin-Stand Testers Hard disk drive manufacturers and their head, media, preamplifier, and read channel suppliers do have very accurate, very expensive "magic machines," called spin-stands [9]. These are used for testing and experimenting with heads and disks. They are used mostly by research and development departments and by incoming inspection, production testing, and quality control personnel. Spin-stands are very accurate and flexible ? for analyzing raw disks. Virtually any data pattern can be written and the positioning accuracy and repeatability Spin-stand are in the nanometer range. However, this typically requires that the tester write testers are its own servo pattern. Reading a disk that has been written by a drive is more accurate, flexible problematic. instruments that First the disk and head must be aligned as close to their relationship in the disk illustrate the drive as possible. Then the electronics and software must be programmed to benefits of drive- utilize the servo pattern written on the disk. If the servo can be followed, the independent test parameters for the head and channel still need to be optimized. Assuming that is equipment. possible, the data written to the disk should be readable. However, unless the exact read channel and its coding options are available for the tester, all that will be delivered is scrambled, RLL encoded, ECC code words at best. These must still be decoded and then assembled into useful files. Note also that the head will be flying over the disk surface, so the disk must not be significantly damaged. In reality, the scenario above is very difficult to successfully implement even for a drive manufacturer. It takes a great deal of trial-and-error investigation by a very knowledgeable operator. It would be much more difficult for a data recovery company to implement this technique successfully across virtually all manufacturer's drives cost-effectively. However, the drive-independent nature of the spin-stand is a very appealing and necessary feature for a general data recovery tool. What is needed is a device that offers similar flexibility, can detect and decode the user's data, is much less costly, ideally works for every drive made, and will continue to work (with modifications) for future drives. Drive-Independent Data Recovery www.ChannelScience.com Page 19 ChannelScience 4.2.2 Magnetic Force Microscopes (MFM) The ultimate tool for analyzing the magnetic data on disks is the MFM. It is related to the atomic force microscope (AFM), except it responds to the Track Motion, magnetic force of the disk's data and servo patterns [10]. Typically the Relative to Head instrument offers both AFM and MFM capabilities. It provides phenomenal guardbands images of the topology and magnetization of the disk. The figure to the left is an MFM image of a portion of a track of data. The dark and light horizontal lines are the individual transitions. Assuming the transitions are 1s, the spaces in between the transitions are the 0s. The detail clearly reveals the guardbands between tracks and even the curl at the edges of the written track 1/bpi due to the shape of the write field. The MFM probe must be very close to the disk surface in order to get these 1/tpi images. Therefore it cannot easily follow a badly damaged (e.g., bent) disk. The biggest drawback, however, is its speed. The MFM scans about a 100 micron by 100 micron area at a time, then the sample must be moved and the next area scanned. As a very rough approximation, if a 3 1/2" disk is to be imaged and the MFM can scan and move to the next area in one minute (quite fast!). It would take about 60 weeks of 24 hour/day operation to scan one surface. If the disk surface holds 50GB of data, for example, the image files that would be generated from the MFM would be many times this amount ? perhaps generating tens of terabytes of image information to analyze. For example, all of these individual images would need to be stitched together into a complete disk image and a software image processing algorithm would need to be used to 1) servo on each track and 2) generate the read gate to indicate the beginning and ending of each sector. Finally a signal from the center of the track image would need to be generated as a readback signal, detected, decoded and assembled into useful files. The most intriguing possibility for magnetic force microscopy as a data recovery tool is reading overwritten data [11]. As shown in the Track N Track N+1 image to the left, when a track is overwritten there is often a portion of the previously written data remaining. This is due to small variations in the servo's placement of the write element as well as the effects of spindle runout. It is theoretically possible to take all the steps listed above but generate the readback signal from in between tracks rather than from track center. This procedure will have about the same level of difficulty, but the error rate of the readback signal will be much worse. Also the overwritten signal will be slowly fading in and out due to non-repeatable Previously written spindle runout that occurs during writing. Such an effort (partially overwritten) could only be afforded for a small amount of the most data in guardband important data for national security. 4.2.3 The Spin-Stand MFM? To over come the time of image acquisition with an MFM, it has been demonstrated [12] that magnetic recording heads can be used on a spin-stand tester to create an image of the magnetic pattern on the disk. That is, a flying Drive-Independent Data Recovery www.ChannelScience.com Page 20 ChannelScience GMR head is used in place of an MFM probe. This has the advantage of being able to image a disk in a few hours, depending on the resolution desired. However, it still leaves all the problems of analyzing (quickly) the many terabytes of image data generated. The images must be arranged in the correct spatial pattern and the tracks followed by some image processing servo routine. The readback signal from the track center (or guardband) must be generated. And finally the data must be detected, decoded, and assembled into useful files. An improvement on this system would be to servo the imaging head during the scan by using the magnetic patterns written on the disk. 4.2.4 Exotic Recovery Although such exotic methods of data recovery are theoretically possible, and It is theoretically have even been discussed in the peer-reviewed literature [11, 12], I have found possible to read no evidence of commercially viable recoveries being performed with them. some overwritten Furthermore, I have seen no public demonstrations of any of these methods that data. show the recovery of files or even user data ? only images or raw encoded data. 5. The Frontiers of What's Possible: What Makes Data Unrecoverable? From the preceding descriptions of hard disk drive technology it should be clear that part-replacement for data recovery is difficult now and likely to get more difficult in the future. Part-replacement fails for a variety of reasons, but most of them reflect the hyper-tuning drives undergo to achieve high manufacturing yields combined with high data density. The drives optimize the particular head/media/electronics combination they have as well as adapt to the precise physical relationships between the positions of the read element, write element, spindle center, and head stack pivot point. Because of hyper-tuning, the range of parameters over which a drive can operate is very small and likely to get even smaller. Part-replacement, by its nature, succeeds most often in drives that work over a wider range of parameter values. """ The second PDF has a nice abstract, if you are lazy, so I will not summarize here... -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 21:18:13 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:18:13 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080121185413.GC7124@adb.ca> <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080125211813.GG16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 09:51:43AM -0800, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. Go forth and study on your own > disk if you like :-) The reason is that once the platters are > removed, they can never be aligned in the same way that they were > manufactured. Thus, an multi-platter hard disk data is unrecoverable, > by any means... You might need a clean room, then clean the platters and install them in the same model drive casing as before, but I suspect it ought to work most of the time. Not that I think I could do it myself. A data recovery company on the other hand probably could. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 21:26:18 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:26:18 -0500 Subject: Place to get (Thinkpad) laptop battery in Toronto/GTA? In-Reply-To: References: <4798E804.3050106@alteeve.com> <4798F3C5.8000809@primus.ca> <200801241615.39439.sniffy@rogers.com> <479905AB.7050008@primus.ca> <20080125143046.GD16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080125212618.GH16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 12:56:31PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Technically you are supposed to pay Ontario PST. The out-of-province > vendor does not need to collect it but you are obliged to pay it > yourself. > > I know of a case where the Ontario government did go after retail > customers for this. They found the customers from the customer list > of the vendor. Not surprisingly, I don't want to go into details for > privacy reasons. It is probably hard to figure out how frequently > this happens because of privacy concerns. I suspect it is very rare. Well I think a number of provinces have agreements with each other which mean the retailers have to collect PST for the target province. It would appear this is not the case for BC. Also companies that operate in multiple provinces in general seem to have to collect PST for the provinces they do operate in when selling to people there. I think this is the first time I have bought anything from BC though since usually the shipping charges kill the prices, but this time they have a "free shipping on orders over $500" going on so that made thigns much better. Even paying PST it would still be cheaper than buying it locally although not by as much, but I would still have had to spend time driving to multiple stores to get the best prices. Personally I think it would save tons of accounting and government administration costs if we just elliminated sales tax and did everything by income taxes and property taxes and the like. Once you earn the money and pay taxes, you can buy what you want from where you want without having to worry about more taxes and there would be a lot less paperwork and stuff for retailers to do and for the government to do. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 21:31:53 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:31:53 -0500 Subject: Place to get (Thinkpad) laptop battery in Toronto/GTA? In-Reply-To: References: <4798E804.3050106@alteeve.com> <4798F3C5.8000809@primus.ca> <200801241615.39439.sniffy@rogers.com> <479905AB.7050008@primus.ca> <20080125143046.GD16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <479A5549.8010908@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Lennart Sorensen > > | I also discovered recently that many companies that are based in BC > | don't charge PST to out of province orders, which actually ends up as a > | bit of a savings. > > Technically you are supposed to pay Ontario PST. The out-of-province > vendor does not need to collect it but you are obliged to pay it > yourself. > > If the out of province vendor also has an Ontario presence, they have to charge PST. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 21:31:52 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:31:52 -0500 Subject: Vista Home license now allows virtualization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080125213152.GI16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 12:49:40PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > [Notice that I'm top posting. In this case I think it is logical.] > > Now that we've chewed over the legal aspects (important!), has anybody any > experience or thoughts on the technical aspects of trying to run an > OEM Windows Vista, with no installation medium, under some > Linux-hosted virtualization system? Well the restore disc might not work. A number of systems do include a Vista Anytime Upgrade disc which it turns out is actually a complete full install disc that will accept the product key and install normally that way (without all the extras crap some companies insist on inflicting on their customers). The "upgrade" disc is also a place to find the recovery console that is quite useful to have. Unfortunately some systems don't include that disc which really sucks. Of course you could just get someone to make you a copy of a normal vista install disk that you could then use with your install key. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 21:33:08 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:33:08 -0500 Subject: X/boot/emu1212m In-Reply-To: <479A3B64.8050607-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4797C194.1050204@chrisaitken.net> <4797ED65.8010905@chrisaitken.net> <479A3AC5.8000707@chrisaitken.net> <479A3B64.8050607@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080125213308.GJ16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 02:41:24PM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: > Since I want to use the emu1212m pci card and not the onboard Intel card > am I correct to assume that setting 'Compaq Audio Device' to 'Disabled' > in the BIOS is a good idea? Worth a try, although linux knows how to reenable some "disabled" sound devices itself. Might work though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 21:49:13 2008 From: sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris Gow) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:49:13 -0500 Subject: Place to get (Thinkpad) laptop battery in Toronto/GTA? In-Reply-To: <20080125212618.GH16172-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4798E804.3050106@alteeve.com> <20080125212618.GH16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200801251649.13818.sniffy@rogers.com> On Friday 25 January 2008 16:26:18 Lennart Sorensen wrote: > ?Once you earn the > money and pay taxes, you can buy what you want from where you want > without having to worry about more taxes and there would be a lot less > paperwork and stuff for retailers to do and for the government to do. But then how would the government justify its huge budgets?! -- chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 21:50:00 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:50:00 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479A31D4.8010505@rogers.com> <479A3D8A.8040208@rogers.com> Message-ID: <479A5988.9070608@rogers.com> Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > On Jan 25, 2008 11:50 AM, James Knott wrote: > >> They work with more than just deleted files. They recover data from >> drives with severe hardware damage. Sometimes, such as after a fire, >> the only recourse is to pull the platters out and mount them in a >> similar drive. IIRC, this was mentioned by the presenter at the TLUG >> meeting a few years back. >> > > What you are perhaps referring to is a spin-stand. However, you > *cannot* separate the platters and recover the data. The reason is > that the tracking/data are written to multiple platters, and if minute > misalignment occurs, you cannot determine what bit is what bit. You > just have garbage bits. You also need to know the coding the drive > uses. This varies widely among manufacturers. The most elegant hack > would be to somehow replace the parts that were damaged and somehow > keep the platters perfectly aligned when you swap them into a similar > drive. Then, data recovery may perhaps be possible, but not if the > platters become misaligned (and still it is very difficult to perfect > -- yes it is possible). I think it is wise that you invest in reading > the following two PDF documents this weekend from the site below. > Still note, misaligned platters spell doom! > > http://www.actionfront.com/ts_whitepaper.aspx > http://www.actionfront.com/whitepaper/Drive-Independent%20Data%20Recovery%20Ver14Alrs.pdf > http://www.actionfront.com/whitepaper/Drive%20Independent%20Data%20Recovery%20TMRC2005%20Preprint.pdf > > I encourage you to read the entire articles, but if you are not > inclined, here is a short summary. This does not substitute for the > wealth of information contained in those two entire documents however! > > ""' > It would appear sections 4.1.4 and 4.2.1 cover what I was describing. As I mentioned in a previous note, it would take a fair amount of effort, as described in those section. Also, I was not referring to over-written or erased disks. Simply recovering data, from drives where some part of the hardware, other than the platters, has been damaged is what I was referring to. Those two sections cover it nicely. Bottom line, it is possible to recover data after the platters have been removed from the drives. Also W.R.T. the "tracking data", yes it is written on every disk, unlike the old disk pack drives where you had one servo head, which provided tracking for the entire drive. The data clock is also embedded in the data, which means so long as the head can get a decent signal, the data can be recoverd. One thing everyone has to bear in mind, is that data recovery is a lot more expensive than backups. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 21:54:41 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:54:41 -0800 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <479A5988.9070608-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479A31D4.8010505@rogers.com> <479A3D8A.8040208@rogers.com> <479A5988.9070608@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Jan 25, 2008 1:50 PM, James Knott wrote: > It would appear sections 4.1.4 and 4.2.1 cover what I was describing. > As I mentioned in a previous note, it would take a fair amount of > effort, as described in those section. Also, I was not referring to > over-written or erased disks. Simply recovering data, from drives where > some part of the hardware, other than the platters, has been damaged is > what I was referring to. Those two sections cover it nicely. Bottom > line, it is possible to recover data after the platters have been > removed from the drives. Also W.R.T. the "tracking data", yes it is > written on every disk, unlike the old disk pack drives where you had one > servo head, which provided tracking for the entire drive. The data > clock is also embedded in the data, which means so long as the head can > get a decent signal, the data can be recoverd. Right, but still, misaligned platters cannot be recovered :-) Correctly aligned platters do have a chance... > One thing everyone has to bear in mind, is that data recovery is a lot > more expensive than backups. I think we can both agree on that! Have a nice weekend :-) -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 22:14:25 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:14:25 -0500 Subject: Place to get (Thinkpad) laptop battery in Toronto/GTA? In-Reply-To: <200801251649.13818.sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4798E804.3050106@alteeve.com> <20080125212618.GH16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200801251649.13818.sniffy@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080125221425.GK16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 04:49:13PM -0500, Chris Gow wrote: > But then how would the government justify its huge budgets?! I am sure they could find something else to spend money on. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 23:20:24 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 23:20:24 +0000 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479A31D4.8010505@rogers.com> <479A3D8A.8040208@rogers.com> <479A5988.9070608@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Jan 25, 2008 9:54 PM, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > On Jan 25, 2008 1:50 PM, James Knott wrote: > > It would appear sections 4.1.4 and 4.2.1 cover what I was describing. > > As I mentioned in a previous note, it would take a fair amount of > > effort, as described in those section. Also, I was not referring to > > over-written or erased disks. Simply recovering data, from drives where > > some part of the hardware, other than the platters, has been damaged is > > what I was referring to. Those two sections cover it nicely. Bottom > > line, it is possible to recover data after the platters have been > > removed from the drives. Also W.R.T. the "tracking data", yes it is > > written on every disk, unlike the old disk pack drives where you had one > > servo head, which provided tracking for the entire drive. The data > > clock is also embedded in the data, which means so long as the head can > > get a decent signal, the data can be recoverd. > > Right, but still, misaligned platters cannot be recovered :-) > Correctly aligned platters do have a chance... Your earlier posting pretty nicely described the position of "magic machines" in the analysis of this. Given a suitable "magic machine," I don't think the alignment issue needs to be problem. But I don't think it's out of line to expect "magic machines" to cost on the order of billions of dollars. Mind you, that doesn't mean it can't have happened. Someone at BNR/Nortel did a "gedankenexperiment" describing how one might build a machine that could crack DES in fairly short order, given access to things like chip foundries. It was imagined that the NSA, who certainly have access to such things, might have built such a "cracker" machine. Then someone made it rather more real, as some folks from the EFF actually did up a design for this, and built sample quantities of the hardware, enough to do benchmarking to show that the task was "honest-to-goodness feasible." The book, complete with some circuit descriptions, has been available, but went out of print... http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/crackdes/ I would think it unsafe to make any grand decisions based on the assumption that: a) Nobody could build a suitable "magic machine," and b) Nobody has. There's enough "military industrial complex" money out there that it is reasonable to expect that there are some "magic machines" out there of one sort or another. That doesn't mean that you or I can have access to them, and the presence of "gedanken experiments" does not establish the reality of there being a Real Magic Machine. For those who are paranoid, sometimes with reason, taking paranoid measures to destroy disk drives *isn't* irrational. The EFF's "DES cracker" demonstrates that what may at one time have been an impossibly expensive technology may eventually become at least somewhat readily available. Thus, we don't know what may come available for cracking RSA 10 years from now. Using big keys is pretty wise, and we can't be certain that progress in factoring mayn't make that useless. We don't know but that nanotechnology may take some big steps over the next 15 years, so that in 30 years, I might be able to get a $50 "backup recovery" unit that *can* read data off of circa-2005 disk hardware. That's certainly science fiction now, but many things we have today were "wild, out there SF" 20 years ago. > > One thing everyone has to bear in mind, is that data recovery is a lot > > more expensive than backups. > > I think we can both agree on that! Have a nice weekend :-) Enjoy! -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 23:27:34 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 15:27:34 -0800 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479A31D4.8010505@rogers.com> <479A3D8A.8040208@rogers.com> <479A5988.9070608@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Jan 25, 2008 3:20 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > I would think it unsafe to make any grand decisions based on the > assumption that: > a) Nobody could build a suitable "magic machine," and > b) Nobody has. > > There's enough "military industrial complex" money out there that it > is reasonable to expect that there are some "magic machines" out there > of one sort or another. That doesn't mean that you or I can have > access to them, and the presence of "gedanken experiments" does not > establish the reality of there being a Real Magic Machine. Agreed. Anything is possible, given time/resources. If you can "gedonk" it, it can happen. Nothing is static... > For those who are paranoid, sometimes with reason, taking paranoid > measures to destroy disk drives *isn't* irrational. The EFF's "DES > cracker" demonstrates that what may at one time have been an > impossibly expensive technology may eventually become at least > somewhat readily available. Which is why I still recommend the sledgehammer :-) -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 26 02:00:00 2008 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 21:00:00 -0500 Subject: Place to get (Thinkpad) laptop battery in Toronto/GTA? In-Reply-To: <20080125212618.GH16172-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4798E804.3050106@alteeve.com> <4798F3C5.8000809@primus.ca> <200801241615.39439.sniffy@rogers.com> <479905AB.7050008@primus.ca> <20080125143046.GD16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080125212618.GH16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080126020000.GA6990@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 04:26:18PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Personally I think it would save tons of accounting and government > administration costs if we just elliminated sales tax and did everything > by income taxes and property taxes and the like. Once you earn the > money and pay taxes, you can buy what you want from where you want > without having to worry about more taxes and there would be a lot less > paperwork and stuff for retailers to do and for the government to do. That would not be fair to all those accountants, lawyers, and politicians whose livelihoods depends on complicated taxes. GST was supposed to streamline retail taxes. But, it turns out more public sector jobs were created than ever imagined. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 26 05:22:47 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 00:22:47 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479A31D4.8010505@rogers.com> Message-ID: <479AC3A7.3070808@utoronto.ca> Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > On Jan 25, 2008 11:00 AM, James Knott wrote: >> Can you be so certain? Many years ago, I used to maintain mini-computer >> systems, including disk drives. There were many times I would repair a >> drive after a head crash and then do an alignment of the heads etc. >> When you do that, one thing that's obvious is that the data is recorded >> in clearly identifiable tracks, which you can locate by watching the >> recovered signal with an oscilloscope. What's to stop someone from >> reassembling those platters in a similar drive and, with perhaps some >> effort, recovering that data? It may be difficult, but I not >> impossible. I know it's possible to align a drive to the data on a >> disk, because I've done it. You might also want to talk to someone in >> the data recovery business. IIRC, there was a presentation by one such >> person at a TLUG meeting a few years back. > > I have spoken to people in the data forensics field, yes. With > multi-platter disk drives, I encourage anyone to prove me (and the > forensics guys) wrong. The problem is that newer disks are aligned > and sealed at the same time in the factory. The tracking information > is written to the disk while it is enclosed. I don't see how you > would determine how to align the tracks from data which you cannot > determine is valid data or not. Please explain and show proof. Btw, > I have done and consulted with forensics experts about the situation > you speak of -- using a similar drive to recover data. I encourage > anyone to provide evidence that it is possible. There is no evidence, > that I have seen, to support it. However, there is a multitude of > evidence to show that once you misalign the platters, your data is > toast... For the present. That's the whole point of the argument for destroying the physical magnetic substrate. 30 years from now technology today will look just like that old 8086 from the late 70's, and I'm sure a 10TB RAID array then was less than just a faint glimmer in the imagination of the most visionary person involved with technology at that time. If nothing else, taking a hammer to the platters in a hard drive can be fun, so why not destroy your data that way? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 26 09:15:52 2008 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 09:15:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: shredding files on a flash drive References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080121185413.GC7124@adb.ca> <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Kristian Erik Hermansen writes: > disk if you like The reason is that once the platters are > removed, they can never be aligned in the same way that they were > manufactured. Thus, an multi-platter hard disk data is unrecoverable, > by any means... The platters are all self aligned and soft formatted. The people who recover data have fancy drives with micrometer screws that allow the platters to be realigned as needed. There is also a way to read the platters without contact using a laser and a physical effect known as Faraday Rotation. It does not require that the platters be in one piece or straight. I am not an expert on this but be sure that other people ARE. Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 26 10:01:52 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 02:01:52 -0800 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Jan 26, 2008 1:15 AM, Peter P. wrote: > The platters are all self aligned and soft formatted. The people who recover > data have fancy drives with micrometer screws that allow the platters to be > realigned as needed. There is also a way to read the platters without contact > using a laser and a physical effect known as Faraday Rotation. It does not > require that the platters be in one piece or straight. I am not an expert on > this but be sure that other people ARE. The platters are self aligned and soft formatted once they are in the casing! If they become separated, how to do propose to realign multiple platters? -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 26 12:45:15 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 07:45:15 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <479B2B5B.1080307@rogers.com> Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > On Jan 26, 2008 1:15 AM, Peter P. wrote: > >> The platters are all self aligned and soft formatted. The people who recover >> data have fancy drives with micrometer screws that allow the platters to be >> realigned as needed. There is also a way to read the platters without contact >> using a laser and a physical effect known as Faraday Rotation. It does not >> require that the platters be in one piece or straight. I am not an expert on >> this but be sure that other people ARE. >> > > The platters are self aligned and soft formatted once they are in the > casing! If they become separated, how to do propose to realign > multiple platters? > Why do they have to be realigned? The servo and clock information are embedded in the signal, on each platter. You seem to be of the optinion that the data has to be aligned between platters. This isn't so, though they may be in an operational drive. When you read data from a working disk, the first thing to happen, is the head seeks the desired track. The individual tracks can be counted by observing the signal, as the head moves across the surface. Then, when the controller thinks it's in the right position, it starts reading data, which contains the track and sector information, in addition to user & meta data. This data is self clocking and can start anywhere around that track, independent of any other disk surface. Like I said in an earlier note, it would be a good idea for you to read up on how drives actually work. One good reference for computers in general, is Scott Mueller's "Upgrading and Repairing PCs". This is an excellent book, that covers, in addition to many other things, how disk drives work. It describes exactly what I've been telling you about disk operation. By reading that, you'll find many errors in your argument. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 26 18:08:17 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 10:08:17 -0800 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <479B2B5B.1080307-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479B2B5B.1080307@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Jan 26, 2008 4:45 AM, James Knott wrote: > Why do they have to be realigned? The servo and clock information are > embedded in the signal, on each platter. You seem to be of the optinion > that the data has to be aligned between platters. This isn't so, though Well, the tracking data is written to multiple platters at the same time, as well as the data. So, if you don't align the platters, you get junk! I still encourage anyone to prove me wrong. Post a youtube video of your success if you think it is possible :-) > they may be in an operational drive. When you read data from a working > disk, the first thing to happen, is the head seeks the desired track. The disk is not "working", so this seems useless :-( > The individual tracks can be counted by observing the signal, as the > head moves across the surface. Then, when the controller thinks it's in > the right position, it starts reading data, which contains the track and > sector information, in addition to user & meta data. This data is self > clocking and can start anywhere around that track, independent of any > other disk surface. Like I said in an earlier note, it would be a good The problem is that all of this will not happen if you misalign the platters. Now, let me propose you another question, OK? Can you extract any user data from a multi-platter disk drive, using only one of the platters? Is it possible? How do you propose to do it? So, for instance, a disk with two platters is disassembled, platters removed, separated, and left for you. I take one platter and throw it away. I give you the other platter. What data can you get? > idea for you to read up on how drives actually work. One good reference > for computers in general, is Scott Mueller's "Upgrading and Repairing > PCs". This is an excellent book, that covers, in addition to many other > things, how disk drives work. It describes exactly what I've been > telling you about disk operation. By reading that, you'll find many > errors in your argument. Dude, I have one of the editions of Mueller's book. I read it a long time ago, actually, cover to cover. If you don't believe me, then I don't know what to tell you. Newer editions seem to have expanded in size, to almost 2000 pages or so. When I read it, it was about 1400 pages. It also included a CD. I remember a cool video on that disc where he opens a drive and you see it spinning live, the head seeking, and spin-down, head parking, etc. But I have already read that book, as I said, so I don't see how that is going to help. And, that book is not very technical (in comparison to some other docs I have read). I think that many of the other academic papers that I have read are far more technical and useful. In my senior year of university, I worked on a data forensics project. I did a lot of research into this kind of stuff. I even wrote a tool that I have never seen anyone else implement. It is a tool to recover data and timestamping information from the Windows registry. Did you know that the Windows registry has timestamps? And I can reconstruct nearly all your actions even if you delete all others files on the system? :-) Take care... -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 26 18:30:07 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 13:30:07 -0500 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080122221045.GL2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479B2B5B.1080307@rogers.com> Message-ID: <479B7C2F.4060406@rogers.com> Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > On Jan 26, 2008 4:45 AM, James Knott wrote: > >> Why do they have to be realigned? The servo and clock information are >> embedded in the signal, on each platter. You seem to be of the optinion >> that the data has to be aligned between platters. This isn't so, though >> > > Well, the tracking data is written to multiple platters at the same > time, as well as the data. So, if you don't align the platters, you > get junk! I still encourage anyone to prove me wrong. Post a youtube > video of your success if you think it is possible :-) > As I have said before, please read about how drives actually work. Each disk surface is written independently of the others and contains the necessary tracking and clocking info. In common drives, the data is written to one track or "cylinder" until that track is full. Then the heads are switched to access the next surface etc. Once all the tracks are full in one cylinder, then the head seeks to the next cylinder. The clock and servo info are recovered from the disk surface every time a head switch takes place and the sector number verified on every read or write operation. This means that it's possible to take any individual disk from the array and recover it's data. Recovering entire files, however, will require recovering the data from all surfaces that the file existed on. Also, the onus is generally on the person making the claim to provide the proof. You claimed it was impossible. I have provided evidence that it is not so, including using some of your own evidence. You have more than demonstrated you are arguing from a point of ignorance, where you don't understand the fundamentals of how disk drives work. Please do a little research, before demanding that someone has to prove you wrong. As I mentioned earlier, at one point in my career, maintaining and repairing disk drives was part of my job, so I also have some actual hands on experience to rely on. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 26 19:15:42 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:15:42 -0800 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: <479B7C2F.4060406-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479B2B5B.1080307@rogers.com> <479B7C2F.4060406@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Jan 26, 2008 10:30 AM, James Knott wrote: > As I have said before, please read about how drives actually work. Each > disk surface is written independently of the others and contains the > necessary tracking and clocking info. In common drives, the data is > written to one track or "cylinder" until that track is full. Then the > heads are switched to access the next surface etc. Once all the tracks > are full in one cylinder, then the head seeks to the next cylinder. The > clock and servo info are recovered from the disk surface every time a > head switch takes place and the sector number verified on every read or > write operation. This means that it's possible to take any individual > disk from the array and recover it's data. Recovering entire files, > however, will require recovering the data from all surfaces that the > file existed on. Also, the onus is generally on the person making the > claim to provide the proof. You claimed it was impossible. I have > provided evidence that it is not so, including using some of your own > evidence. You have more than demonstrated you are arguing from a point > of ignorance, where you don't understand the fundamentals of how disk > drives work. Please do a little research, before demanding that someone > has to prove you wrong. As I mentioned earlier, at one point in my > career, maintaining and repairing disk drives was part of my job, so I > also have some actual hands on experience to rely on. I won't reply to this any further. I made my point. You still didn't answer my question about recovering files from multi-platter drives using only one platter. Additionally, you have not read the two PDF documents I sent here, which clearly states the improbability of recovering files in this manner once the platters are separated. Nothing is impossible, but I do believe it to be an intractable problem at this time, with the resources available to the general business or consumer. Perhaps government agencies know of some way -- they always seem to have tricks up their sleeves. A friend of mine is a PhD student at Berkeley. He worked for the NSA, He can tell me that they have tricks up their sleeve, but he can't tell me what the tricks are. It is very interesting to know that there are tricks though :-) Good luck in your quest to recover my separated platters!!! Go forth and find that magical device... -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 26 20:48:09 2008 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 20:48:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: shredding files on a flash drive References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479B2B5B.1080307@rogers.com> <479B7C2F.4060406@rogers.com> Message-ID: Kristian Erik Hermansen writes: > I won't reply to this any further. I made my point. You still didn't There exists software and there are systems that are able to stitch back together essentially documents torn to confetti and read what was on them. They are used by archaeologists among others. The original application was to stitch back together old documents (even with missing parts!) and tapestries. At least one application is open source, and serves to digitize old 8 and 16 mm films using a flatbed scanner. The software stitches the succesive exposures of several frames each together, picking them out of the background and the film frame, and makes a modern computer movie from them. All modern tape and disk drives do not use alignment between the platters for any special purpose. Each head has its own data channel. Not working like that would require the platters and the heads not to have any vibration (including rotational) to the tune of one half a bit space on the disk. That would be in the few tens of nanometers at most today. Move this to four or six faces to keep in sync and a price tag usually well below $300 and you have a picture of something that cannot be done. $300 won't buy you the motor and control system that guarantees rotational noise below say 50 nanometers at 7200 rpm no matter what. Compare to video recording where the heads move against the tape with something like 2 m/sec and rotational vibration effects are of the order of magnitude of 10 usec per head rotation at a bandwidth of only 1.5 MHz when all is well (rarely). A hard disk head channel will have something like 10-20 m/sec head speed (7200 rpm) and probably 10-100MHz bandwidth. Any instrument maker will tell you that such things do not work outside a lab. Tapes have the same problem (longitudinal skew and warping) and deal with it the same way: each head has its own data channel, clock and data recovery state machine (including ML masking/decoding), and mini buffer. This has been true since at least the 1970s when 7, 8 and 9-track tapes ruled the world. Also most normal hard disks do not stripe the heads and use one head at any one time. Only high end drives stripe the platters and use all the heads together (but still with each having its own decoder and mini buffer). Also there will always be files with known data on the remains (at least sector headers) that will allow the interleave assembly scheme to be divined. Now add 1+1 together with the confetti assembler above and you have a working recovery system. Yes, it would take a few weeks of hard work at least. Yes, there are people who would do such things to get at other countries or companies goodies. Consider that at current data densities a 1mm length of track could allow the recovery of 10 kilobytes of data. How many names and addresses or social security numbers can be stored in 10 kilobytes ? Imho it is pretty lame to 'make your point' by quoting a paper written by (knowledgeable) people relatively out of context when there are tons of counter examples on the net. Sorry for writing this. Add to this that if I know this as a 'civilian' who is not in the security field at all, there must be people who know A LOT more. And no, I did not 'prove my point'. I just brought some arguments into the discussion. This is not a pissing contest as far as I know. Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 27 00:33:38 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 16:33:38 -0800 Subject: shredding files on a flash drive In-Reply-To: References: <20080120220135.GB7124@adb.ca> <20080125153409.GE16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479B2B5B.1080307@rogers.com> <479B7C2F.4060406@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Jan 26, 2008 12:48 PM, Peter P. wrote: > There exists software and there are systems that are able to stitch back > together essentially documents torn to confetti and read what was on them. They > are used by archaeologists among others. The original application was to stitch > back together old documents (even with missing parts!) and tapestries. At least > one application is open source, and serves to digitize old 8 and 16 mm films > using a flatbed scanner. The software stitches the succesive exposures of > several frames each together, picking them out of the background and the film > frame, and makes a modern computer movie from them. Yes, and I have written my own Artificial Intelligence algorithms/software that does this. Have you? > All modern tape and disk drives do not use alignment between the platters for > any special purpose. Each head has its own data channel. Not working like that > would require the platters and the heads not to have any vibration (including > rotational) to the tune of one half a bit space on the disk. That would be in > the few tens of nanometers at most today. Move this to four or six faces to keep > in sync and a price tag usually well below $300 and you have a picture of > something that cannot be done. $300 won't buy you the motor and control system > that guarantees rotational noise below say 50 nanometers at 7200 rpm no matter > what. Compare to video recording where the heads move against the tape with > something like 2 m/sec and rotational vibration effects are of the order of > magnitude of 10 usec per head rotation at a bandwidth of only 1.5 MHz when all > is well (rarely). A hard disk head channel will have something like 10-20 m/sec > head speed (7200 rpm) and probably 10-100MHz bandwidth. > > Any instrument maker will tell you that such things do not work outside a lab. > Tapes have the same problem (longitudinal skew and warping) and deal with it the > same way: each head has its own data channel, clock and data recovery state > machine (including ML masking/decoding), and mini buffer. This has been true > since at least the 1970s when 7, 8 and 9-track tapes ruled the world. Also most > normal hard disks do not stripe the heads and use one head at any one time. Only > high end drives stripe the platters and use all the heads together (but still > with each having its own decoder and mini buffer). > > Also there will always be files with known data on the remains (at least sector > headers) that will allow the interleave assembly scheme to be divined. Now add > 1+1 together with the confetti assembler above and you have a working recovery > system. Yes, it would take a few weeks of hard work at least. Yes, there are > people who would do such things to get at other countries or companies goodies. > Consider that at current data densities a 1mm length of track could allow the > recovery of 10 kilobytes of data. How many names and addresses or social > security numbers can be stored in 10 kilobytes ? > > Imho it is pretty lame to 'make your point' by quoting a paper written by > (knowledgeable) people relatively out of context when there are tons of counter > examples on the net. Sorry for writing this. Add to this that if I know this as > a 'civilian' who is not in the security field at all, there must be people who > know A LOT more. And no, I did not 'prove my point'. I just brought some > arguments into the discussion. This is not a pissing contest as far as I know. If you are indeed correct, I would like to inform you that the Department of Homeland Security of the United States has offered a lot of money to anyone who can product such a "magic device" that can perform the actions you say. It sounds like you will be very rich, very soon :-) -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 27 02:49:59 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 21:49:59 -0500 Subject: SSD lifespan on Asus eee Message-ID: <479BF157.6070006@pppoe.ca> A colleague mentioned that he was wary of the SSD lifespan on the Asus eee. I remember reading about log files and swap partition limitations on flash devices. I did some "googling" and this, http://www.storagesearch.com/ssdmyths-endurance.html, is among what came up. The Asus eee 2G Surf costs $299. A RAM and SD card upgrade may cost another $100. Any thoughts on the SSD lifespan? I understand that it is flash based. Pointers to articles or papers will be welcome too. Thanks. Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 27 03:50:58 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 22:50:58 -0500 Subject: SSD lifespan on Asus eee In-Reply-To: <479BF157.6070006-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <479BF157.6070006@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <479BFFA2.2000803@telly.org> Meng Cheah wrote: > A colleague mentioned that he was wary of the SSD lifespan on the Asus > eee. I remember reading about log files and swap partition limitations > on flash devices. > I did some "googling" and this, > http://www.storagesearch.com/ssdmyths-endurance.html, is among what came > up. That articles is hardly fearmongering on the issue. It suggests, through reasonable premises, that the lifespans of SSDs are longer than those for mechanical drives -- 50 years or more under heavier than average use. > Any thoughts on the SSD lifespan? I understand that it is flash based. > Pointers to articles or papers will be welcome too. I would suggest a look at a very good document regarding install of Ubuntu on the EeePC. Amongst other things, it offers tips on minimizing disk writes by using (ram-based) tempfs for log files, making changes to the default disk-mount settings in fstab, and avoiding a swap partition altogether. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EeePC#head-94f55ed3ed5ccd1078c593314598caa70481700b - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 27 22:20:22 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 17:20:22 -0500 Subject: Samba problem Message-ID: <479D03A6.2020406@telly.org> Hi all. I have a home system running a samba server that seems to be working OK. Everyone can seem to access it fine except for one person who can't; this message shows up when that person tries to log in: [2008/01/27 16:27:51, 0] lib/util_sock.c:write_data(562) write_data: write failure in writing to client 192.168.1.100. Error Connection reset by peer [2008/01/27 16:27:51, 0] lib/util_sock.c:send_smb(769) Error writing 4 bytes to client. -1. (Connection reset by peer) Any suggestions are appreciated. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 02:39:06 2008 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:39:06 -0500 Subject: Samba problem In-Reply-To: <479D03A6.2020406-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <479D03A6.2020406@telly.org> Message-ID: <479D404A.6010102@totaltravelmarketing.com> Is that person on the same network or remote?, I have that problem when my smb declaration is filtered by IP range Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hi all. > > I have a home system running a samba server that seems to be working OK. > Everyone can seem to access it fine except for one person who can't; > this message shows up when that person tries to log in: > > [2008/01/27 16:27:51, 0] lib/util_sock.c:write_data(562) > write_data: write failure in writing to client 192.168.1.100. Error > Connection reset by peer > [2008/01/27 16:27:51, 0] lib/util_sock.c:send_smb(769) > Error writing 4 bytes to client. -1. (Connection reset by peer) > > Any suggestions are appreciated. > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 20:00:58 2008 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:00:58 -0500 Subject: State of Palm <-> Linux syncing Message-ID: <20080128200058.GA25666@watson-wilson.ca> What's the state of Palm and Linux syncing these days. I've tried jpilot but the rhythm method of plugging in the device, starting jpilot, pressing the PDA sync and then jpilot's sync all at the right time is not reasonable to me. I also tried kpilot but all syncs fail using that. Is there no reliable method? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 2 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 20:06:21 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:06:21 -0800 Subject: State of Palm <-> Linux syncing In-Reply-To: <20080128200058.GA25666-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20080128200058.GA25666@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Jan 28, 2008 12:00 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > What's the state of Palm and Linux syncing these days. I've tried > jpilot but the rhythm method of plugging in the device, starting jpilot, > pressing the PDA sync and then jpilot's sync all at the right time is > not reasonable to me. I also tried kpilot but all syncs fail using > that. Is there no reliable method? There is also gnome-pilot... -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 21:00:14 2008 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:00:14 -0500 Subject: State of Palm <-> Linux syncing In-Reply-To: <20080128200058.GA25666-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20080128200058.GA25666@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20080128210014.GA15512@adb.ca> Neil Watson wrote: > What's the state of Palm and Linux syncing these days. I've tried > jpilot but the rhythm method of plugging in the device, starting jpilot, > pressing the PDA sync and then jpilot's sync all at the right time is > not reasonable to me. I also tried kpilot but all syncs fail using > that. Is there no reliable method? In my experience, you want to press sync on the Palm several seconds before starting the desktop program, since a USB Palm (as just about any recent one is) it doesn't start acting like a USB device until the Palm sync program starts (even though the cable is already plugged in), and it takes a few seconds for your Linux system to see that a new USB node exists and create the /dev entries. If your Linux sync program comes along before that, the device doesn't exist yet and it will definitely fail. The Palm will stay in ready-to-start-syncing state for quite awhile. See also the lsusb command, the use of the ls command in /dev, maybe look at and/or tail -f your system logfile (probably /var/log/messages), and verify that your kernel does have USB Serial support enabled. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 21:21:44 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:21:44 -0500 Subject: State of Palm <-> Linux syncing In-Reply-To: <20080128200058.GA25666-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20080128200058.GA25666@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20080128212144.GL16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 28, 2008 at 03:00:58PM -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > What's the state of Palm and Linux syncing these days. I've tried > jpilot but the rhythm method of plugging in the device, starting jpilot, > pressing the PDA sync and then jpilot's sync all at the right time is > not reasonable to me. I also tried kpilot but all syncs fail using > that. Is there no reliable method? I managed to get pilotlink to do most of my Palm Tungsten E although a few apps won't sync, and when trying to do a complete restore some things don't make it leaving it a bit weird to work with. The lack of specs on the palm and it's sync protocol and hence the lousy support in linux is the main reason I really haven't looked at my Palm in the last 6 months or so. It's just too difficult to keep synced if you don't run windows. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 21:58:30 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:58:30 +0000 Subject: State of Palm <-> Linux syncing In-Reply-To: <20080128200058.GA25666-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20080128200058.GA25666@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Jan 28, 2008 8:00 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > What's the state of Palm and Linux syncing these days. I've tried > jpilot but the rhythm method of plugging in the device, starting jpilot, > pressing the PDA sync and then jpilot's sync all at the right time is > not reasonable to me. I also tried kpilot but all syncs fail using > that. Is there no reliable method? I have pretty good results with jPilot... As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, your system won't start mounting the USB device until you press "Sync" on the Palm, and it commonly takes a second or two for that to "stabilize," so you certainly do need a bit of good timing. But it hasn't required anything over-omniscient, in my experience... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 29 01:43:13 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:43:13 -0500 Subject: SSD lifespan on Asus eee In-Reply-To: <479BFFA2.2000803-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <479BF157.6070006@pppoe.ca> <479BFFA2.2000803@telly.org> Message-ID: <479E84B1.5020309@pppoe.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Meng Cheah wrote: > >> A colleague mentioned that he was wary of the SSD lifespan on the Asus >> eee. I remember reading about log files and swap partition limitations >> on flash devices. >> I did some "googling" and this, >> http://www.storagesearch.com/ssdmyths-endurance.html, is among what came >> up. >> > > That articles is hardly fearmongering on the issue. It suggests, through > reasonable premises, that the lifespans of SSDs are longer than those > for mechanical drives -- 50 years or more under heavier than average use. > > > >> Any thoughts on the SSD lifespan? I understand that it is flash based. >> Pointers to articles or papers will be welcome too. >> > > I would suggest a look at a very good document regarding install of > Ubuntu on the EeePC. Amongst other things, it offers tips on minimizing > disk writes by using (ram-based) tempfs for log files, making changes to > the default disk-mount settings in fstab, and avoiding a swap partition > altogether. > > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EeePC#head-94f55ed3ed5ccd1078c593314598caa70481700b > > - Evan > Thanks, Evan for the perspective and article. 50 years or more under heavier than average usage? I wonder how many Asus eee's will be still in use then :-) Thanks again. Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 29 01:55:15 2008 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:55:15 -0500 Subject: Vista Home license now allows virtualization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200801282055.15045.amarjan@pobox.com> On January 25, 2008 12:49:40 pm D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > [Notice that I'm top posting. In this case I think it is logical.] > > Now that we've chewed over the legal aspects (important!), has anybody any > experience or thoughts on the technical aspects of trying to run an > OEM Windows Vista, with no installation medium, under some > Linux-hosted virtualization system? VMware has a "Converter" tool that will virtualize NT 4 and 5-based Windows installations, but they don't mention Vista: http://www.vmware.com/products/converter/ That's the only tool I know about for virtualizing Windows. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 29 16:37:30 2008 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:37:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT "The definition of insanity" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <128622.36885.qm@web61314.mail.yahoo.com> > "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over > and > expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert > Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > This is true only in a world composed of memoryless systems only. Even a simple finite state machine produces different output for the same input depending on its internal state. EK Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 29 16:56:33 2008 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:56:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT "The definition of insanity" In-Reply-To: <128622.36885.qm-ncOeX8qdkx6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <128622.36885.qm@web61314.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2153.99.232.68.237.1201625793.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > > >> "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over >> and >> expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert >> Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > This is true only in a world composed of memoryless systems only. > Even a simple finite state machine produces different output for the > same input depending on its internal state. > > EK Or, as is said of remarriage after divorce: 'The triumph of hope over experience'. > > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk > email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in > Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at > http://mail.yahoo.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 29 17:16:36 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 17:16:36 +0000 Subject: OT "The definition of insanity" In-Reply-To: <128622.36885.qm-ncOeX8qdkx6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <128622.36885.qm@web61314.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Jan 29, 2008 4:37 PM, E K wrote: > > > > "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over > > and > > expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert > > Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > This is true only in a world composed of memoryless systems only. > Even a simple finite state machine produces different output for the > same input depending on its internal state. Unfortunately, people often lack useful memory, and this is frequently true for computer systems. My N800 fell into a regrettable cycle, yesterday, that was very much of this sort. - For some reason, the battery ran out of power :-(. - I plugged it into a charger, at work, but it fell into an insane cycle: - It would start charging - As soon as it got a little charged, it would power up the screen - This would chew up what charge had been achieved - It would then repeat the cycle. There's some problem with that charger; it's got a somewhat intermittent connection, which was what prevented the charger from BOTH charging the battery and powering the screen. Nonetheless, for a whole working day, I watched the device run through a "cycle of insanity." That the N800 has memory aboard did not prevent it from falling into its cycle. I had a better charger at home, which permitted it to charge up properly last night, thus breaking the cycle. But I had to change something to stop it from doing the same stupid thing over and over and over... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 29 18:33:13 2008 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 13:33:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT "The definition of insanity" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <467624.87409.qm@web61315.mail.yahoo.com> --- Christopher Browne wrote: > On Jan 29, 2008 4:37 PM, E K wrote: > > > > > > > "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and > over > > > and > > > expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to > Albert > > > Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard > Kipling > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > This is true only in a world composed of memoryless systems only. > > Even a simple finite state machine produces different output for > the > > same input depending on its internal state. > > Unfortunately, people often lack useful memory, and this is > frequently > true for computer systems. > > My N800 fell into a regrettable cycle, yesterday, that was very > much > of this sort. > > - For some reason, the battery ran out of power :-(. > > - I plugged it into a charger, at work, but it fell into an insane > cycle: > > - It would start charging > - As soon as it got a little charged, it would power up the screen > - This would chew up what charge had been achieved > - It would then repeat the cycle. > > There's some problem with that charger; it's got a somewhat > intermittent connection, which was what prevented the charger from > BOTH charging the battery and powering the screen. > > Nonetheless, for a whole working day, I watched the device run > through > a "cycle of insanity." That the N800 has memory aboard did not > prevent it from falling into its cycle. > > I had a better charger at home, which permitted it to charge up > properly last night, thus breaking the cycle. But I had to change > something to stop it from doing the same stupid thing over and over > and over... Interesting. This reminded me of a joke. A guy was studying the behaivor of a fly. He caught a fly and plucked one of its leg and clapped at it, off went the fly. He caught another fly, plucked two of its legs and clapped at it, off went the fly. He caught yet another fly and plucked its three legs and clapped and clapped. But, the fly didn't fly. Seeing that, the would be scientist concluded that a fly is not able to hear if three of its legs are cut. Cheers, EK > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over > and > expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert > Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 29 18:49:52 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 13:49:52 -0500 Subject: State of Palm <-> Linux syncing In-Reply-To: References: <20080128200058.GA25666@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20080129134952.708dce8f@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > On Jan 28, 2008 12:00 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > > What's the state of Palm and Linux syncing these days. I've tried > > jpilot but the rhythm method of plugging in the device, starting jpilot, > > pressing the PDA sync and then jpilot's sync all at the right time is > > not reasonable to me. I also tried kpilot but all syncs fail using > > that. Is there no reliable method? > > There is also gnome-pilot... I used that when my Palm was still alive. Syncing is great because all you have to do is hit sync on the cradle and gnome pilot opens and starts the sync. However, since I did not use Evolution, I could never figure out how to sync mail and contacts and so on. Now my Palm is dead... :-\ -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: I need a calculator. Fry: You are a calculator. Bender: I need a good calculator. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 29 18:54:54 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 13:54:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: ethernet patch cables Message-ID: Dollarama is selling Belkin 3.1m snagless CAT 5e patch cables for $1 each. Perhaps not everywhere and all the time. http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=541877 I bought 15, thinking that I'd then feel free to discard some of my nastier cables. But I am such a hoarder. For example, I have "taken out of service" a patch cable with a broken hook (the first of several). Will I throw it out? Will I bring it to TLUG to give away? The packaging describes these Belkin patch cables as "FastCAT5E(tm)". "Each FastCAT5e cable has an increased frequency range of 250%, providing the bandwidth necessary to reliable deliver your voice, video, and data well beyond today's 100Mbps systems." Isn't "well beyond" only 1000BASE-T and probably not the next thing beyond that (10Gig)? Isn't CAT 5 OK for 1000BASE-T? If CAT-5 is good enough, and CAT-5e is better, and FastCAT5e(tm) better still, why do we need CAT-6? I don't really understand whether you want CAT 6 for 1G ethernet. Wikipedia says CAT 6 is a cable standard for Gigabit Ethernet. But it also says 1000BASE-T was designed for CAT 5 and that CAT 5e is even better for it. I see that 1000BASE-TX (apparently no longer important) required CAT-6. I also learned that "RJ45" is the wrong term for the connector. It should be called "8P8C modular connector". The warranty says that "For the life of the product, Belkin warrants that this cable shall be free of defects in design, assembly, material, and workmanship." So if the cable dies, the warranty won't work. I don't get it -- isn't that when you want the warranty to work? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 29 19:36:28 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 14:36:28 -0500 Subject: State of Palm (or PocketPC) <-> Linux syncing Message-ID: <3a97ef0801291136ob1741d5qdab9fcfb9676ae93@mail.gmail.com> Just to add to this inquiry... How about Pocket PC's? Unfortunately mine isn't one that runs Opie very well, so I'm stuck with windows CE. I haven't really had much time to mess with it, but didn't really find anything to sync it in 'nix. Anyone have luck with WinCE/PocketPC type devices and syncing to 'nix? On Jan 28, 2008 3:00 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > What's the state of Palm and Linux syncing these days. I've tried > jpilot but the rhythm method of plugging in the device, starting jpilot, > pressing the PDA sync and then jpilot's sync all at the right time is > not reasonable to me. I also tried kpilot but all syncs fail using > that. Is there no reliable method? > > -- > Neil Watson | Debian Linux > System Administrator | Uptime 2 days > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 477-1784 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 29 20:32:53 2008 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:32:53 -0500 Subject: Restoring print icon on FC3 desktop. Message-ID: <479F8D75.6050007@alteeve.com> Anyone know/remember how to do that. Doesn't seem to be in the panel add/remove icons. Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 29 21:01:41 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Christopher Aitken) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:01:41 -0500 Subject: Restoring print icon on FC3 desktop. In-Reply-To: <479F8D75.6050007-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <479F8D75.6050007@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <479F9435.6030703@chrisaitken.net> Lance F. Squire wrote: > Anyone know/remember how to do that. > > Doesn't seem to be in the panel add/remove icons. Why not right-click the panel, choose 'custom launcher' (or somesuch) and then type in printer-config (or whatever) and choose 'run in terminal'? Then pick a printer icon and you've made your own button. :) Chris > > Lance > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 29 21:37:56 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 13:37:56 -0800 Subject: State of Palm (or PocketPC) <-> Linux syncing In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0801291136ob1741d5qdab9fcfb9676ae93-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0801291136ob1741d5qdab9fcfb9676ae93@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jan 29, 2008 11:36 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Just to add to this inquiry... > > How about Pocket PC's? Unfortunately mine isn't one that runs Opie > very well, so I'm stuck with windows CE. I haven't really had much > time to mess with it, but didn't really find anything to sync it in > 'nix. Anyone have luck with WinCE/PocketPC type devices and syncing to > 'nix? synce -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 01:04:17 2008 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:04:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: Toronto Area Security Klatch meeting Jan 30. Message-ID: <164676.66232.qm@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> The Toronto Area Security Klatch (TASK) will have their next meeting January 30, 6:00 PM, University of Toronto, Pharmacy Building, Room B250, 144 College St. Toronto. The lecture this month will be on computer forensics (full details below). Further information can be seen here: http://www.task. to/events/ upcoming. php A few additional notes, the "B" in the room number means basement (going to the 2nd floor is a common first timer error). The meeting is free. Colin McGregor -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ When: Wednesday, January 30, 2008, 6pm-9pm Location: Pharmacy Building, Room B250, 144 College St. Topic: Forensic Investigations. Our first event for 2008 will certainly be one of the most interesting and educational with three very experienced forensic investigators presenting, all with substantial law enforcement experience. Details below. We look forward to seeing you! Speakers: Larry Gagnon, Sandy McMurrich and Dave Burton Each of our speakers has extensive law enforcement experience in Ontario. They have all worked for a number of years in the computer forensics field and each has performed hundreds of examinations on devices for major cases including homicides, major frauds, organized crime rings etc. Larry now runs a private firm and supports civil litigations in the Greater Toronto Area. Sandy and Dave are both currently continuing their work in their respective data forensics bureaus. Today they will be demonstrating tools and techniques commonly used in forensic investigations. Email recovery, link file analysis, picture recovery and internet history analysis are all included in this presentation. Sincerely, The TASK Executive Robert Beggs, Brian Bourne, Robert Buren, Bruce Cowper info-G0YJL6KdMvo at public.gmane.org ------------ --------- --------- ------- Thanks to TASK Sponsors Cenzic - http://www.cenzic. com/ McAfee - http://www.mcafee. com/ Digital Defence - http://www.digitald efence.ca/ Microsoft Canada - http://www.microsof t.ca/ Sentry Metrics - http://www.sentryme trics.com/ Black Hat - http://www.blackhat .com/html/ bh-usa-07/ bh-usa-07- index.html CMS Consulting Inc. - http://www.cms. ca/ SecTor 2008 - http://www.sector. ca/ ------------------------------------- If you read this far... forward to a friend! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 01:20:25 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:20:25 -0500 Subject: Robert Brockway Message-ID: <20080130012025.29568.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Robert Brockway can you email me? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 02:00:34 2008 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 21:00:34 -0500 Subject: Restoring print icon on FC3 desktop. In-Reply-To: <479F9435.6030703-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <479F8D75.6050007@alteeve.com> <479F9435.6030703@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <479FDA42.5050804@alteeve.com> Christopher Aitken wrote: > Lance F. Squire wrote: >> Anyone know/remember how to do that. >> >> Doesn't seem to be in the panel add/remove icons. > Why not right-click the panel, choose 'custom launcher' (or somesuch) > and then type in printer-config (or whatever) and choose 'run in > terminal'? Then pick a printer icon and you've made your own button. > If it was the printer config, I could do that. But it is/was the printer job notifier. That is, this icon would give you a list of jobs currently going to the printers and you could stop, start or delete them. I can not find that function in the printer config. Either its a different mode of the gui, (Flag?) or a different app. Unfortunately, Googleing hasn't helped much... Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 02:25:41 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 21:25:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Robert Brockway In-Reply-To: <20080130012025.29568.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130012025.29568.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2008, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > Robert Brockway can you email me? Hi Chris :) Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 02:31:30 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 21:31:30 -0500 Subject: Restoring print icon on FC3 desktop. In-Reply-To: <479FDA42.5050804-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <479F8D75.6050007@alteeve.com> <479F9435.6030703@chrisaitken.net> <479FDA42.5050804@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <479FE182.7040706@rogers.com> Lance F. Squire wrote: > > If it was the printer config, I could do that. > > But it is/was the printer job notifier. > > That is, this icon would give you a list of jobs currently going to the > printers and you could stop, start or delete them. > You can add the print manager applet to the panel which will do what you need and a lot more. See the link for directions which are at the bottom of the linked page. http://www.visualgenomics.ca/~birch/local/public_html/setup.gnome/desktop.html HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 04:03:05 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 23:03:05 -0500 Subject: OT: Trunk Monkey Message-ID: <479FF6F9.5000407@telly.org> By popular request: Here is a link to the diversion shown during the intermission at last week's NewTLUG meeting (and repeated at yesterday's exec meeting): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8avOiTUcD4Y http://www.trunkmonkeyad.com/ - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 15:06:20 2008 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 10:06:20 -0500 Subject: Restoring print icon on FC3 desktop. In-Reply-To: <479FE182.7040706-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <479F8D75.6050007@alteeve.com> <479F9435.6030703@chrisaitken.net> <479FDA42.5050804@alteeve.com> <479FE182.7040706@rogers.com> Message-ID: <47A0926C.1000705@alteeve.com> John McGregor wrote: > http://www.visualgenomics.ca/~birch/local/public_html/setup.gnome/desktop.html > Thanks for the link! Looks like it'll do the trick. Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 16:00:29 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:00:29 -0500 Subject: ethernet patch cables In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080130160029.GA26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 01:54:54PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Dollarama is selling Belkin 3.1m snagless CAT 5e patch cables for $1 each. > Perhaps not everywhere and all the time. > http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=541877 > > I bought 15, thinking that I'd then feel free to discard some of my > nastier cables. But I am such a hoarder. For example, I have "taken > out of service" a patch cable with a broken hook (the first of > several). Will I throw it out? Will I bring it to TLUG to give away? > > > The packaging describes these Belkin patch cables as "FastCAT5E(tm)". > "Each FastCAT5e cable has an increased frequency range of 250%, > providing the bandwidth necessary to reliable deliver your voice, > video, and data well beyond today's 100Mbps systems." Isn't "well > beyond" only 1000BASE-T and probably not the next thing beyond that > (10Gig)? Isn't CAT 5 OK for 1000BASE-T? If CAT-5 is good enough, and > CAT-5e is better, and FastCAT5e(tm) better still, why do we need > CAT-6? > > I don't really understand whether you want CAT 6 for 1G ethernet. > Wikipedia says CAT 6 is a cable standard for Gigabit Ethernet. But it > also says 1000BASE-T was designed for CAT 5 and that CAT 5e is even > better for it. I have only ever seen 5e and 6 as valid for GBit ethernet. Of course on short cables you can probably get away with plain 5 at least if it is in good condition, hasn't been bent too much and there isn't a lot of interference around. 10GBase-T requires Cat6 for up to 55m cables and Cat6a for 100m. So essentially the lower cable quality means shorter cables have to be used. > I see that 1000BASE-TX (apparently no longer important) required > CAT-6. Isn't that what most machines with gigabit use? Well actually 1000Base-T (never heard of 1000Base-TX). It can run on Cat5 but only properly installed cat5 that hasn't been abused. 1000Base-T does put more demand on the cable than 100Base-TX since 100Base-TX runs 125MHz signal with a 5:4 encoding of the data to get 100Mbit, and hence has some error correcting and detecting ability and runs traffic one way only on a single pair per direction. 1000Base-T runs 125MHz signal with data on both high and low clock (so 250MBit on a single pair) which looses the error correction and detection ability of 100Base-TX and it transmits and receives on all 4 pairs of wires at the same time, so it has to deal with interference that may occour as well as keeping the transmitted and received data seperate even though it shares the wire and it has to deal with cross talk from 4 active pairs rather than 2. Since the actual frequency of the signal is still 125MHz just like 100Base-TX the cable should be OK, but the reduced protection against errors and the increased number of pairs carrying data puts higher demand on a good quality cable. > I also learned that "RJ45" is the wrong term for the connector. It > should be called "8P8C modular connector". Yeah well what can you do. > The warranty says that "For the life of the product, Belkin warrants > that this cable shall be free of defects in design, assembly, > material, and workmanship." So if the cable dies, the warranty won't > work. I don't get it -- isn't that when you want the warranty to > work? Lawyers just don't know how to communicate. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 16:08:13 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:08:13 -0500 Subject: ethernet patch cables In-Reply-To: <20080130160029.GA26258-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130160029.GA26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080130160813.GB26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 11:00:29AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Isn't that what most machines with gigabit use? Well actually > 1000Base-T (never heard of 1000Base-TX). It can run on Cat5 but only > properly installed cat5 that hasn't been abused. > > 1000Base-T does put more demand on the cable than 100Base-TX since > 100Base-TX runs 125MHz signal with a 5:4 encoding of the data to get > 100Mbit, and hence has some error correcting and detecting ability and > runs traffic one way only on a single pair per direction. 1000Base-T > runs 125MHz signal with data on both high and low clock (so 250MBit on a > single pair) which looses the error correction and detection ability of > 100Base-TX and it transmits and receives on all 4 pairs of wires at the > same time, so it has to deal with interference that may occour as well > as keeping the transmitted and received data seperate even though it > shares the wire and it has to deal with cross talk from 4 active pairs > rather than 2. Since the actual frequency of the signal is still 125MHz > just like 100Base-TX the cable should be OK, but the reduced protection > against errors and the increased number of pairs carrying data puts > higher demand on a good quality cable. Turns out I had missed something when I looked up gig ethernet in the past. It does have some error detection through the use of multiple voltage levels for signaling. It is more complex than 100Mbit though and it does use all the wires at the same time. -- Len SOrensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 16:10:08 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:10:08 -0500 Subject: help Message-ID: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Does anyone know a consultant I could hire to help me with my emu1212m pci card, alsa, and ubuntu? The consultant I normally use (when things go beyond what I can do and what this list can help me with) is not doing that kind of thing anymore. He suggested I try linuxcaffe website for a listing. However, rather than call them all I thought I'd ask you guys if you know of anyone really good at sound stuff. I find that this list is really great for help and that my learning goes up. However, for really deep stuff like kernel panics, boot problems, and the like, everything gets really quiet. Now my problems (see "X/boot" thread) have gotten worse. I was logging in as user then running 'startx' to get my system up (which then wouldn't give me the privilege of shutting down). Now, I can't even get in as regular user at all. I can go in as root but alsa is not showing my card of choice (emu1212m pc). Audacity lets me choose the emu but doesn't give me all the functionality the I get with the onboard Intel card. I got the emu1212m pci card because it seems to be a semi-pro card that I hoped would give me better recording sound than the onboard Intel one does. But it's a bitch to configure under alsa/ubuntu and when it is up I can't get all the functionality out of it. I'm getting advice from another list about how I should have tabs and menus in alsamixer and alsamixergui that those apps don't even show me in my system. I have a recording project I wan to start this week. I don't mind a little troubleshooting but I'm troubleshooting alsa/emu/ubuntu INSTEAD of recording! If anyone knows a consultant that could handle all this stuff please let me know. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 16:27:45 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:27:45 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080130161009.18472.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 11:10:08AM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > Does anyone know a consultant I could hire to help me with my emu1212m pci > card, alsa, and ubuntu? The consultant I normally use (when things go > beyond what I can do and what this list can help me with) is not doing that > kind of thing anymore. He suggested I try linuxcaffe website for a listing. > However, rather than call them all I thought I'd ask you guys if you know > of anyone really good at sound stuff. I find that this list is really great > for help and that my learning goes up. However, for really deep stuff like > kernel panics, boot problems, and the like, everything gets really quiet. > Now my problems (see "X/boot" thread) have gotten worse. I was logging in > as user then running 'startx' to get my system up (which then wouldn't give > me the privilege of shutting down). Now, I can't even get in as regular > user at all. I can go in as root but alsa is not showing my card of choice > (emu1212m pc). Audacity lets me choose the emu but doesn't give me all the > functionality the I get with the onboard Intel card. I got the emu1212m pci > card because it seems to be a semi-pro card that I hoped would give me > better recording sound than the onboard Intel one does. But it's a bitch to > configure under alsa/ubuntu and when it is up I can't get all the > functionality out of it. I'm getting advice from another list about how I > should have tabs and menus in alsamixer and alsamixergui that those apps > don't even show me in my system. I have a recording project I wan to start > this week. I don't mind a little troubleshooting but I'm troubleshooting > alsa/emu/ubuntu INSTEAD of recording! > > If anyone knows a consultant that could handle all this stuff please let me > know. I guess it depends where you are located too. Maybe someone is close by. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 16:51:23 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:51:23 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080130162745.GC26258-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> Hey Chris, I'm not sure if I'm out on a whim here, maybe someone else could say if im right or wrong but is it possible the irq's are conflicting? On Jan 30, 2008 11:27 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 11:10:08AM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Does anyone know a consultant I could hire to help me with my emu1212m pci > > card, alsa, and ubuntu? The consultant I normally use (when things go > > beyond what I can do and what this list can help me with) is not doing that > > kind of thing anymore. He suggested I try linuxcaffe website for a listing. > > However, rather than call them all I thought I'd ask you guys if you know > > of anyone really good at sound stuff. I find that this list is really great > > for help and that my learning goes up. However, for really deep stuff like > > kernel panics, boot problems, and the like, everything gets really quiet. > > Now my problems (see "X/boot" thread) have gotten worse. I was logging in > > as user then running 'startx' to get my system up (which then wouldn't give > > me the privilege of shutting down). Now, I can't even get in as regular > > user at all. I can go in as root but alsa is not showing my card of choice > > (emu1212m pc). Audacity lets me choose the emu but doesn't give me all the > > functionality the I get with the onboard Intel card. I got the emu1212m pci > > card because it seems to be a semi-pro card that I hoped would give me > > better recording sound than the onboard Intel one does. But it's a bitch to > > configure under alsa/ubuntu and when it is up I can't get all the > > functionality out of it. I'm getting advice from another list about how I > > should have tabs and menus in alsamixer and alsamixergui that those apps > > don't even show me in my system. I have a recording project I wan to start > > this week. I don't mind a little troubleshooting but I'm troubleshooting > > alsa/emu/ubuntu INSTEAD of recording! > > > > If anyone knows a consultant that could handle all this stuff please let me > > know. > > I guess it depends where you are located too. Maybe someone is close > by. > > -- > Len Sorensen > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 16:58:05 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:58:05 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880801300858w7863fb2cucf16472b0ee5415c@mail.gmail.com> Nevermind. I just thought to check that cuz I had issues with older sound cards with that problem. Forgive me for a stupid post :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 17:05:32 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:05:32 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080130170532.GD26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 11:51:23AM -0500, Dave Germiquet wrote: > I'm not sure if I'm out on a whim here, maybe someone else could say > if im right or wrong but is it possible the irq's are conflicting? Seems unlikely given it is a PCI card. The message from the driver saying "can't load firmware file" seems more likely to be a problem. May even be going to alsa 1.0.15 rather than 1.0.14rc would solve the problem too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 17:50:58 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:50:58 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080130162745.GC26258-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080130175059.31983.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Lennart Sorensen writes: > On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 11:10:08AM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: >> Does anyone know a consultant I could hire to help me with my emu1212m pci >> card, alsa, and ubuntu? The consultant I normally use (when things go >> beyond what I can do and what this list can help me with) is not doing that >> kind of thing anymore. He suggested I try linuxcaffe website for a listing. >> However, rather than call them all I thought I'd ask you guys if you know >> of anyone really good at sound stuff. I find that this list is really great >> for help and that my learning goes up. However, for really deep stuff like >> kernel panics, boot problems, and the like, everything gets really quiet. >> Now my problems (see "X/boot" thread) have gotten worse. I was logging in >> as user then running 'startx' to get my system up (which then wouldn't give >> me the privilege of shutting down). Now, I can't even get in as regular >> user at all. I can go in as root but alsa is not showing my card of choice >> (emu1212m pc). Audacity lets me choose the emu but doesn't give me all the >> functionality the I get with the onboard Intel card. I got the emu1212m pci >> card because it seems to be a semi-pro card that I hoped would give me >> better recording sound than the onboard Intel one does. But it's a bitch to >> configure under alsa/ubuntu and when it is up I can't get all the >> functionality out of it. I'm getting advice from another list about how I >> should have tabs and menus in alsamixer and alsamixergui that those apps >> don't even show me in my system. I have a recording project I wan to start >> this week. I don't mind a little troubleshooting but I'm troubleshooting >> alsa/emu/ubuntu INSTEAD of recording! >> >> If anyone knows a consultant that could handle all this stuff please let me >> know. > > I guess it depends where you are located too. Maybe someone is close > by. In Timmins? I've never come across anyone who has more than a passing interest in linux. The guy who used to help me did so with ssh and telephone. I was his "hands". Chris > -- > Len Sorensen > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 18:02:26 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 13:02:26 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080130180227.689.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Dave Germiquet writes: > Hey Chris, > > I'm not sure if I'm out on a whim here, maybe someone else could say > if im right or wrong but is it possible the irq's are conflicting? From the BIOS: Compaq VGA controller IRQ 5 Intel IDE controller Enabled Intel USB controller IRQ 11 Compaq Audio Device IRQ 10 Compaq Ethernet controller IRQ 5 Creative LAbs Audio Device IRQ 10 Creative Labs 1394 controller IRQ 11 It does seem like a lot of devices for three IRQs. Why do I have a 'VGA controller'? I think I have at least SVGA. Do I need 'Compaq Audio Device'? I'm assuming that that is the onboard card that I don't want to use. However, whenever I set it to 'Disable' that damn ubuntu goes and enables it whenever it likes. I'm assuming that the 'Creative Labs' device and controller comprise the EMU 1212m pci card that I do want to use. Am I correct in all my thinking? I think I'm looking at an ubuntu re-install. These are great ideas, but my troubles now are deep and varied now. Chris > > On Jan 30, 2008 11:27 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 11:10:08AM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: >> > Does anyone know a consultant I could hire to help me with my emu1212m pci >> > card, alsa, and ubuntu? The consultant I normally use (when things go >> > beyond what I can do and what this list can help me with) is not doing that >> > kind of thing anymore. He suggested I try linuxcaffe website for a listing. >> > However, rather than call them all I thought I'd ask you guys if you know >> > of anyone really good at sound stuff. I find that this list is really great >> > for help and that my learning goes up. However, for really deep stuff like >> > kernel panics, boot problems, and the like, everything gets really quiet. >> > Now my problems (see "X/boot" thread) have gotten worse. I was logging in >> > as user then running 'startx' to get my system up (which then wouldn't give >> > me the privilege of shutting down). Now, I can't even get in as regular >> > user at all. I can go in as root but alsa is not showing my card of choice >> > (emu1212m pc). Audacity lets me choose the emu but doesn't give me all the >> > functionality the I get with the onboard Intel card. I got the emu1212m pci >> > card because it seems to be a semi-pro card that I hoped would give me >> > better recording sound than the onboard Intel one does. But it's a bitch to >> > configure under alsa/ubuntu and when it is up I can't get all the >> > functionality out of it. I'm getting advice from another list about how I >> > should have tabs and menus in alsamixer and alsamixergui that those apps >> > don't even show me in my system. I have a recording project I wan to start >> > this week. I don't mind a little troubleshooting but I'm troubleshooting >> > alsa/emu/ubuntu INSTEAD of recording! >> > >> > If anyone knows a consultant that could handle all this stuff please let me >> > know. >> >> I guess it depends where you are located too. Maybe someone is close >> by. >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 18:05:31 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 13:05:31 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080130180531.9753.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Dave Germiquet writes: > Hey Chris, > > I'm not sure if I'm out on a whim here, There's a mixed metaphor. You can "do something on whim", or be "out on a limb (of a figurative tree)", but I don't think you can be out on a whim. It kinda works though, doesn't it as the two things can be similar? :) Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 18:09:05 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 13:09:05 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080130180227.689.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080130180227.689.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080130180905.GE26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 01:02:26PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > From the BIOS: > > Compaq VGA controller IRQ 5 > Intel IDE controller Enabled > Intel USB controller IRQ 11 > Compaq Audio Device IRQ 10 > Compaq Ethernet controller IRQ 5 > Creative LAbs Audio Device IRQ 10 > Creative Labs 1394 controller IRQ 11 > > It does seem like a lot of devices for three IRQs. Why do I have a 'VGA > controller'? I think I have at least SVGA. Do I need 'Compaq Audio Device'? > I'm assuming that that is the onboard card that I don't want to use. > However, whenever I set it to 'Disable' that damn ubuntu goes and enables > it whenever it likes. I'm assuming that the 'Creative Labs' device and > controller comprise the EMU 1212m pci card that I do want to use. VGA simply means a device that is VGA compatible, which is any video card made in a very long time. The fact it does more than VGA doesn't mean it isn't VGA compatible. The EMU1212m would show up as a creative labs device since it is based on the emu10k1 used on a number of creative labs products. The Creative Labs 1394 is probably a firewire port that is present on the same card since some cards they made had firewire ports. It must be on the B interrupt line on the card then It must be on the B interrupt line on the card then. If you disable the onboard audio (maybe there is an option for that, disabling the IRQ is not how to disable the device. You should not override the BIOS's idea of the interrupts unless you know what you are doing). > Am I correct in all my thinking? > > I think I'm looking at an ubuntu re-install. These are great ideas, but my > troubles now are deep and varied now. I suspect there may be a bug in the 1.0.14rc alsa version ubuntu is using (at least on the release you are using). Maybe 1.0.15 would work. You could even try moving the emu card to a different PCI slot which would make it share with some other devices than it currently is, in case you suspect it is an IRQ problem (which I currently doubt, but I guess you never know without trying). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 18:11:03 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 13:11:03 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080130175059.31983.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080130175059.31983.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080130181103.GF26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 12:50:58PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > In Timmins? I've never come across anyone who has more than a passing > interest in linux. The guy who used to help me did so with ssh and > telephone. I was his "hands". Remote ssh is often quite functional. I have made things work for people in various parts of the world using ssh. It unfortunately requires trusting someone you have never actually met to do stuff on your computer remotely when doing things via ssh. If 'screen' is used at the same time, one can however follow along and learn quite a bit in the process. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 19:17:25 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 14:17:25 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080130180905.GE26258-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080130180227.689.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130180905.GE26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080130191725.1060.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Lennart Sorensen writes: > On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 01:02:26PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: >> From the BIOS: >> >> Compaq VGA controller IRQ 5 >> Intel IDE controller Enabled >> Intel USB controller IRQ 11 >> Compaq Audio Device IRQ 10 >> Compaq Ethernet controller IRQ 5 >> Creative LAbs Audio Device IRQ 10 >> Creative Labs 1394 controller IRQ 11 >> >> It does seem like a lot of devices for three IRQs. Why do I have a 'VGA >> controller'? I think I have at least SVGA. Do I need 'Compaq Audio Device'? >> I'm assuming that that is the onboard card that I don't want to use. >> However, whenever I set it to 'Disable' that damn ubuntu goes and enables >> it whenever it likes. I'm assuming that the 'Creative Labs' device and >> controller comprise the EMU 1212m pci card that I do want to use. > > VGA simply means a device that is VGA compatible, which is any video > card made in a very long time. The fact it does more than VGA doesn't > mean it isn't VGA compatible. > > The EMU1212m would show up as a creative labs device since it is based > on the emu10k1 used on a number of creative labs products. > > The Creative Labs 1394 is probably a firewire port that is present on > the same card since some cards they made had firewire ports. It must be > on the B interrupt line on the card then It must be on the B interrupt > line on the card then. > > If you disable the onboard audio (maybe there is an option for that, > disabling the IRQ is not how to disable the device. You should not > override the BIOS's idea of the interrupts unless you know what you are > doing). I can't shake the feeling that there is something fundamental that I am doing wrong here. Like, the balanced input at the back of the emu card will not accept an unbalanced line, or I have chosen the wrong 'Device' in Audacity, or you cannot send an unpowered signal to the 1/4 " IN on the emu (thought I've tried a powered signal and that did not work either), or the emu has no audio-to-digital conversion so I have to get an external ADC just to record. Something basic. Alsa sees the card, I can playback with the card - I just can't record... Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 19:23:49 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 14:23:49 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080130180905.GE26258-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080130180227.689.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130180905.GE26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080130192350.20673.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Lennart Sorensen writes: > On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 01:02:26PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: >> From the BIOS: >> >> Compaq VGA controller IRQ 5 >> Intel IDE controller Enabled >> Intel USB controller IRQ 11 >> Compaq Audio Device IRQ 10 >> Compaq Ethernet controller IRQ 5 >> Creative LAbs Audio Device IRQ 10 >> Creative Labs 1394 controller IRQ 11 >> >> It does seem like a lot of devices for three IRQs. Why do I have a 'VGA >> controller'? I think I have at least SVGA. Do I need 'Compaq Audio Device'? >> I'm assuming that that is the onboard card that I don't want to use. >> However, whenever I set it to 'Disable' that damn ubuntu goes and enables >> it whenever it likes. I'm assuming that the 'Creative Labs' device and >> controller comprise the EMU 1212m pci card that I do want to use. > > VGA simply means a device that is VGA compatible, which is any video > card made in a very long time. The fact it does more than VGA doesn't > mean it isn't VGA compatible. Okay. > The EMU1212m would show up as a creative labs device since it is based > on the emu10k1 used on a number of creative labs products. I see. > The Creative Labs 1394 is probably a firewire port that is present on > the same card since some cards they made had firewire ports. It must be > on the B interrupt line on the card then It must be on the B interrupt > line on the card then. Gotcha. > If you disable the onboard audio (maybe there is an option for that, I sure didn't see anything like that - I'd have been all over it if I had. > disabling the IRQ is not how to disable the device. You should not > override the BIOS's idea of the interrupts unless you know what you are > doing). Okay. >> Am I correct in all my thinking? > I suspect there may be a bug in the 1.0.14rc alsa version ubuntu is > using (at least on the release you are using). Maybe 1.0.15 would work. > > You could even try moving the emu card to a different PCI slot which > would make it share with some other devices than it currently is, in > case you suspect it is an IRQ problem (which I currently doubt, but I > guess you never know without trying). Another reason an IRQ conflict seems unlikely is that the part of the card (it has two cards) that I am plugging into to record (without success) is the same part of the card (i.e. same slot) that plays back (successfully). Chris > -- > Len Sorensen > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 19:59:08 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 14:59:08 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080130191725.1060.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080130180227.689.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130180905.GE26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080130191725.1060.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080130195908.GG26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 02:17:25PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > I can't shake the feeling that there is something fundamental that I am > doing wrong here. Like, the balanced input at the back of the emu card will > not accept an unbalanced line, or I have chosen the wrong 'Device' in > Audacity, or you cannot send an unpowered signal to the 1/4 " IN on the emu > (thought I've tried a powered signal and that did not work either), or the > emu has no audio-to-digital conversion so I have to get an external ADC > just to record. Something basic. Alsa sees the card, I can playback with > the card - I just can't record... Maybe the inputs are muted by default. If you hit 'tab' in alsamixer, you should toggle between playback, capture and all mode. Maybe under capture you can select which input to use as capture and unmute if necesary and such. Hit 'spacebar' to select an input as the current capture source. My sb live (another emu10k1 based card) has inputs: Front (I think this is whatever the card is currently outputting to the front speakers) Surround (Probably what the rear speakers are getting) Synth (Output of the midi synth engine if playing midi files) Wave (Standard digital audio output from any normal application) Line (Line in on back of card) Line Livedrive (One of the line in ports on the livedrive that is attached) Line2 LiveDrive 1 (The other line in on the livedrive) CD (the connector on the card labeled CD for hooking up to the CD drive for analog CD sound) Mic (Mic jack on back of card) Video (Internal connector on card labeled video) Phone (Internal connector on card labeled phone. Yes it has a lot of internal connectors on the card) IEC958 Coax (digital output on back of card (1/8" jack that can be adapted to coax digital) IEC958 LiveDrive (digital coax on livedrive) IEC958 TTL (not sure where this one is, it may be the same jack in a different mode) Aux (internal connector on card labeled AUX) Capture Mix (Mix of all selected capture sources combined) Mix Mono (Same as above except merged to mono) At least that is what I think they all are. I don't use very many of them myself. You can get a list of all the controls this way: amixer -c 1 controls -c 1 means card 1 rather than the default card 0. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 20:02:05 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:02:05 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080130192350.20673.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080130180227.689.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130180905.GE26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080130192350.20673.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080130200205.GH26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 02:23:49PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > Another reason an IRQ conflict seems unlikely is that the part of the card > (it has two cards) that I am plugging into to record (without success) is > the same part of the card (i.e. same slot) that plays back (successfully). I believe the way the emu1212m works is that the primary card does playback, and then the second card does capture. Unfortunately the second card only works when it's firmware file has been loaded, while the primary card is just a plain emu10k1 (in as much as that DSP can be considered plain) which always works. So if the driver still says it fails to load firmware, then the second card isn't going to do anything at all. The main card is after all the same card used by a number of emu products, with different features. Some use an external box, some use an internal add in card. Each uses different firmware loaded into the add on device to control what it does, and the main card then talks to the add in card to use those extra features. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 20:10:06 2008 From: mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matthew Godycki) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:10:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: help Message-ID: <467515.94364.qm@web88010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > > If you disable the onboard audio (maybe there is an option for that, > I sure didn't see anything like that - I'd have been all over it if I had. I don't believe I have ever seen a motherboard with on-board audio that didn't allow the on-board audio to be disabled via a BIOS option. Have you checked the BIOS? Those things are sometimes listed as integrated PCI devices, etc. -Matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 20:28:15 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:28:15 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080130200205.GH26258-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080130180227.689.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130180905.GE26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080130192350.20673.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130200205.GH26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080130202815.26860.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Lennart Sorensen writes: > On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 02:23:49PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: >> Another reason an IRQ conflict seems unlikely is that the part of the card >> (it has two cards) that I am plugging into to record (without success) is >> the same part of the card (i.e. same slot) that plays back (successfully). > > I believe the way the emu1212m works is that the primary card does > playback, and then the second card does capture. Well the pairs of 1/4" INs and OUTs are on the same card. The way it was explained to me is that the primary card IS an emu1010 aqnd the secondary card gives added features (s/PDIF, ADAT and whatever), > Unfortunately the > second card only works when it's firmware file has been loaded, while > the primary card is just a plain emu10k1 (in as much as that DSP can be > considered plain) which always works. So if the driver still says it > fails to load firmware, then the second card isn't going to do anything > at all. > > The main card is after all the same card used by a number of emu > products, with different features. Some use an external box, some use > an internal add in card. Each uses different firmware loaded into the > add on device to control what it does, and the main card then talks to > the add in card to use those extra features. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 20:58:24 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:58:24 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080130202815.26860.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080130180227.689.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130180905.GE26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080130192350.20673.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130200205.GH26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080130202815.26860.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080130205824.GI26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 03:28:15PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > Well the pairs of 1/4" INs and OUTs are on the same card. The way it was > explained to me is that the primary card IS an emu1010 aqnd the secondary > card gives added features (s/PDIF, ADAT and whatever), Hmm, the primary card has digital IO and the secondary card adds the analog input/output (which some models have on the external box instead). The primary card also has the "RJ45" connector that could connect to such an external box. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 20:59:10 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:59:10 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <467515.94364.qm-PllgjHOHifKB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <467515.94364.qm@web88010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080130205910.GJ26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 12:10:06PM -0800, Matthew Godycki wrote: > I don't believe I have ever seen a motherboard with on-board audio > that didn't allow the on-board audio to be disabled via a BIOS > option. Have you checked the BIOS? Those things are > sometimes listed as integrated PCI devices, etc. If it says HP, Compaq or Dell on the front then many sensible options are no longer options. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 22:50:13 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:50:13 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080130195908.GG26258-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080130180227.689.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130180905.GE26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080130191725.1060.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130195908.GG26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080130225013.17843.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Lennart Sorensen writes: > Maybe the inputs are muted by default. > > If you hit 'tab' in alsamixer, you should toggle between playback, > capture and all mode. Yes, that works fine. > Maybe under capture you can select which input to > use as capture and unmute if necesary and such. Hit 'spacebar' to > select an input as the current capture source. That worked in ALSA for the Intel card - I hit spacebar and get a (red) 'L CAPTUR R' under, say, LINE. That's not working the same for ALSA on the emu1212m - there I can only get 'L CAPTUR R' under the ADC offerings - when I hit spacebar under LINE it shows no change. > My sb live (another emu10k1 based card) has inputs: > Front (I think this is whatever the card is currently outputting to the > front speakers) > Surround (Probably what the rear speakers are getting) > Synth (Output of the midi synth engine if playing midi files) > Wave (Standard digital audio output from any normal application) > Line (Line in on back of card) > Line Livedrive (One of the line in ports on the livedrive that is > attached) > Line2 LiveDrive 1 (The other line in on the livedrive) > CD (the connector on the card labeled CD for hooking up to the CD drive > for analog CD sound) > Mic (Mic jack on back of card) > Video (Internal connector on card labeled video) > Phone (Internal connector on card labeled phone. Yes it has a lot of > internal connectors on the card) > IEC958 Coax (digital output on back of card (1/8" jack that can be > adapted to coax digital) > IEC958 LiveDrive (digital coax on livedrive) > IEC958 TTL (not sure where this one is, it may be the same jack in a > different mode) > Aux (internal connector on card labeled AUX) > Capture Mix (Mix of all selected capture sources combined) > Mix Mono (Same as above except merged to mono) > > At least that is what I think they all are. I don't use very many of > them myself. > > You can get a list of all the controls this way: > > amixer -c 1 controls > > -c 1 means card 1 rather than the default card 0. Okay, I see 'em - must be a hundred. Chris > -- > Len Sorensen > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 00:07:50 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:07:50 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080131000750.2292.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Dave Germiquet writes: > Hey Chris, > > I'm not sure if I'm out on a whim here, maybe someone else could say > if im right or wrong but is it possible the irq's are conflicting? I guess we can't kill off that IRQ conflict theory just yet. Alsa just lost the emu1212m card again (it reverts to showing the Intel card). So, I got into the BIOS reset Compaq Audio Device to 'Disable' booted and voila!, alsa sees the emu1212m again. Go figure... Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 00:33:25 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:33:25 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080131000750.2292.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080131000750.2292.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880801301633t27a039f2i38ea4f45b4981bc7@mail.gmail.com> Hey Guys, Just so you all know I'm not any linux expert, i'm still a newbie after many year :) But.... Chris see if this helps you out: # cat /proc/interuppts I think thats what I used originally. You can also run # dmesg To see if the kernel is failing when loading any of your sound card drivers. I'll just shut up now. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 00:34:39 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:34:39 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801301633t27a039f2i38ea4f45b4981bc7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080131000750.2292.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <32f6a8880801301633t27a039f2i38ea4f45b4981bc7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880801301634t61ef1f31m3a0281866a38aa1c@mail.gmail.com> I don't know if you've tried to see if your computer is detecting the sound card using # lspci Command.... Anyway.. I sometimes speak too much.. so forgive me if this has already been looked at. On Jan 30, 2008 7:33 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hey Guys, > > Just so you all know I'm not any linux expert, i'm still a newbie > after many year :) But.... > > Chris see if this helps you out: > > # cat /proc/interuppts > > I think thats what I used originally. > > You can also run > > # dmesg > > To see if the kernel is failing when loading any of your sound card drivers. > > I'll just shut up now. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 00:39:36 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:39:36 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <20080122184420.GH2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4788EC82.1010909@chrisaitken.net> <20080114150939.GU2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <478D2D32.5000700@chrisaitken.net> <20080117153719.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47953961.9000806@chrisaitken.net> <20080122004741.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479541FD.5020409@chrisaitken.net> <20080122145213.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4796360B.6040809@chrisaitken.net> <20080122184420.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080131003937.30507.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Lennart Sorensen writes: > On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 01:29:31PM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: >> Lennart Sorensen wrote: I thought I'd do all this stuff again since I'm using root now (chris doesn't work now). >> >I just checked the archive, they moved it. Change multiverse to main in >> >sources.list for the line, then it should find it. I re-checked that and also added the 'deb-src...' repo that I got from the bug report you emailed me. >> Okay, I changed that, then I ran sudo apt-get update, then installed >> alsa-firmware. I also tried to install alsa-base, alsa-source, >> alsa-tools, and alsa-utils, but some of them were already there in their >> newest version. Between each install I would run alsamixer to see if the >> card was detected - it was not. Is there any command I have to run to >> restart any service? > > Might have to unload and reload the module for the card, since I suspect > that is when the firmware is loaded. > > The simple solution would be to just reboot of course but you don't have > to. > > If you find the module name > lsmod |grep emu (I think the driver is emu something) Which one of these names is the one I should append to the above command? root at cpc:~# lsmod |grep emu snd_emu10k1_synth 8192 0 snd_emux_synth 35456 1 snd_emu10k1_synth snd_seq_virmidi 8064 1 snd_emux_synth snd_seq_midi_emul 7680 1 snd_emux_synth snd_emu10k1 137248 4 snd_emu10k1_synth snd_ac97_codec 100644 2 snd_intel8x0,snd_emu10k1 snd_rawmidi 25728 3 snd_seq_virmidi,snd_emu10k1,snd_seq_midi snd_seq 53232 9 snd_emux_synth,snd_seq_virmidi,snd_seq_midi_emul,snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,s nd_seq_midi,snd_seq_midi_event snd_pcm 80388 5 snd_intel8x0,snd_emu10k1,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss snd_seq_device 9228 8 snd_emu10k1_synth,snd_emux_synth,snd_seq_dummy,snd_emu10k1,snd_seq_oss,snd_s eq_midi,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq snd_timer 24324 3 snd_emu10k1,snd_seq,snd_pcm snd_util_mem 5760 2 snd_emux_synth,snd_emu10k1 snd_hwdep 10244 2 snd_emux_synth,snd_emu10k1 snd 54660 19 snd_emux_synth,snd_seq_virmidi,snd_intel8x0,snd_emu10k1,snd_seq_oss,snd_ac97 _codec,snd_rawmidi,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_seq,snd_pcm,snd_seq_device, snd_timer,snd_hwdep snd_page_alloc 11400 3 snd_intel8x0,snd_emu10k1,snd_pcm > then do > modprobe -r snd-emu... (whatever you found) I'll do that once I hear from you which name to put in there. Chris > then > udevtrigger > to reload drivers for any present hardware not already handled. > > Hopefully the driver will find the firmware and load it automatically > this time. Certainly the ivtv drivers I have that use firmware files > behave that way. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 00:48:00 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:48:00 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801301634t61ef1f31m3a0281866a38aa1c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080131000750.2292.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <32f6a8880801301633t27a039f2i38ea4f45b4981bc7@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880801301634t61ef1f31m3a0281866a38aa1c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880801301648v4fc68d4dye8d4b4be951d60ed@mail.gmail.com> Everyone: Just want to apologize i didn't see the second thread. Anyway, everything I say question it because I am just new, trying too help out :( I'll try to read more before mentioning anything. On Jan 30, 2008 7:34 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > I don't know if you've tried to see if your computer is detecting the > sound card using > > # lspci > > Command.... > > Anyway.. I sometimes speak too much.. so forgive me if this has > already been looked at. > > > On Jan 30, 2008 7:33 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > > Hey Guys, > > > > Just so you all know I'm not any linux expert, i'm still a newbie > > after many year :) But.... > > > > Chris see if this helps you out: > > > > # cat /proc/interuppts > > > > I think thats what I used originally. > > > > You can also run > > > > # dmesg > > > > To see if the kernel is failing when loading any of your sound card drivers. > > > > I'll just shut up now. > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 00:53:28 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:53:28 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <20080131003937.30507.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080114150939.GU2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <478D2D32.5000700@chrisaitken.net> <20080117153719.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47953961.9000806@chrisaitken.net> <20080122004741.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479541FD.5020409@chrisaitken.net> <20080122145213.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4796360B.6040809@chrisaitken.net> <20080122184420.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080131003937.30507.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080131005328.GK26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 07:39:36PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > I thought I'd do all this stuff again since I'm using root now (chris > doesn't work now). > > I re-checked that and also added the 'deb-src...' repo that I got from the > bug report you emailed me. > > Which one of these names is the one I should append to the above command? > > root at cpc:~# lsmod |grep emu > snd_emu10k1_synth 8192 0 > snd_emux_synth 35456 1 snd_emu10k1_synth > snd_seq_virmidi 8064 1 snd_emux_synth > snd_seq_midi_emul 7680 1 snd_emux_synth > snd_emu10k1 137248 4 snd_emu10k1_synth That's the one ^^^ > snd_ac97_codec 100644 2 snd_intel8x0,snd_emu10k1 > snd_rawmidi 25728 3 snd_seq_virmidi,snd_emu10k1,snd_seq_midi > snd_seq 53232 9 > snd_emux_synth,snd_seq_virmidi,snd_seq_midi_emul,snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,s > nd_seq_midi,snd_seq_midi_event > snd_pcm 80388 5 > snd_intel8x0,snd_emu10k1,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss > snd_seq_device 9228 8 > snd_emu10k1_synth,snd_emux_synth,snd_seq_dummy,snd_emu10k1,snd_seq_oss,snd_s > eq_midi,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq > snd_timer 24324 3 snd_emu10k1,snd_seq,snd_pcm > snd_util_mem 5760 2 snd_emux_synth,snd_emu10k1 > snd_hwdep 10244 2 snd_emux_synth,snd_emu10k1 > snd 54660 19 > snd_emux_synth,snd_seq_virmidi,snd_intel8x0,snd_emu10k1,snd_seq_oss,snd_ac97 > _codec,snd_rawmidi,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_seq,snd_pcm,snd_seq_device, > snd_timer,snd_hwdep > snd_page_alloc 11400 3 snd_intel8x0,snd_emu10k1,snd_pcm > > > >then do > >modprobe -r snd-emu... (whatever you found) > > I'll do that once I hear from you which name to put in there. snd_emu10k1 You can also make alsa use the emu first by creating a file in /etc/modprobe.d/ like this: filename could be 'alsaorder' or something like that. Make it contain: options snd_emu10k1 index=0 options snd_intel8x0 index=1 That will make the emu first and the onboard sound second. If you are really tired of the onboard sound try this line instead: options snd_intel8x0 index=1 enable=0 -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 00:55:55 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:55:55 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080130225013.17843.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080130180227.689.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130180905.GE26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080130191725.1060.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130195908.GG26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080130225013.17843.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080131005555.GL26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 05:50:13PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > That worked in ALSA for the Intel card - I hit spacebar and get a (red) 'L > CAPTUR R' under, say, LINE. That's not working the same for ALSA on the > emu1212m - there I can only get 'L CAPTUR R' under the ADC offerings - when > I hit spacebar under LINE it shows no change. Hmm, the ones with '------' under them should be selectable as capture sources. > Okay, I see 'em - must be a hundred. emu chips have a LOT of I/O. :) My SB Live Platinum has 81 lines of controls. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 01:09:21 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:09:21 -0500 Subject: ubuntu 7.10 won't boot In-Reply-To: <47991F6B.2060007-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080123210136.12414.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080124140207.GB16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47991F6B.2060007@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080131010921.22962.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Christopher Aitken writes: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > >> I suppose it is possible whatever hte problem is was fixed in alsa >> 1.0.15, but I am not sure. Didn't you have all this working under >> fedora before? > Sorry, I didn't answer that. Yes, I did have it working under fedora 7. When I say I had it working under fedora 7 I mean Playback was working. I never got a chance to try Capture (recording) before my hard drive died. Are my alsa/emu1212m investigations killing my hardware and OSes? :) Chris > > Chris > > > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 01:27:07 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:27:07 -0500 Subject: alsamixer mystery functions Message-ID: <20080131012707.21636.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> I've been soliciting help on another list. They are taking a while getting back to me so I thought I'd run a couple of mysteries by you. "Under ALSA mixer you need the switches tab, which allows you to select which input you are recording from. You turn up the levels under the recording tab, which has a master called capture." I have NO tabs in alsamixer or alsamixer gui. alsamixer is just a row of level bars. The only "tabs" is the use of the [Tab] button on the keyboard that only lets you select among [Playback], [Capture], and [All] which just shows you some or all of the level bars. Also, another user referred to 'Preferences' in the 'Edit' menu. I have no menus at all in alsamixer or alsamixergui. ?!?! Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 01:37:03 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:37:03 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080130170532.GD26258-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080130170532.GD26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080131013704.6680.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Lennart Sorensen writes: > On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 11:51:23AM -0500, Dave Germiquet wrote: >> I'm not sure if I'm out on a whim here, maybe someone else could say >> if im right or wrong but is it possible the irq's are conflicting? > > Seems unlikely given it is a PCI card. > > The message from the driver saying "can't load firmware file" seems more > likely to be a problem. > > May even be going to alsa 1.0.15 rather than 1.0.14rc would solve the > problem too. How do I do that? Any time I do apt-get install alsa[-anything] I'm informed that I already have the latest version. Chris > -- > Len Sorensen > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 01:50:42 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:50:42 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801301633t27a039f2i38ea4f45b4981bc7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080131000750.2292.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <32f6a8880801301633t27a039f2i38ea4f45b4981bc7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080131015042.30708.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Dave Germiquet writes: > Hey Guys, > > Just so you all know I'm not any linux expert, i'm still a newbie > after many year :) But.... > > Chris see if this helps you out: > > # cat /proc/interrupts Looks like it has its own IRQ: root at cpc:~# cat /proc/interrupts CPU0 0: 292 IO-APIC-edge timer 1: 12181 IO-APIC-edge i8042 6: 5 IO-APIC-edge floppy 7: 0 IO-APIC-edge parport0 8: 3 IO-APIC-edge rtc 9: 1 IO-APIC-fasteoi acpi 12: 471474 IO-APIC-edge i8042 14: 158029 IO-APIC-edge libata 15: 134739 IO-APIC-edge libata 16: 70018 IO-APIC-fasteoi uhci_hcd:usb1 17: 29008 IO-APIC-fasteoi eth0 18: 3 IO-APIC-fasteoi ohci1394 19: 24487 IO-APIC-fasteoi EMU10K1 20: 0 IO-APIC-fasteoi Intel 82801BA-ICH2 NMI: 0 LOC: 1017170 ERR: 0 MIS: 0 root at cpc:~# > I think thats what I used originally. > > You can also run > > # dmesg <...> [ 47.313984] emu1010: Special config. [ 47.314103] emu1010: EMU_HANA_ID=0x7f [ 47.486647] /build/buildd/linux-source-2.6.22-2.6.22/drivers/usb/class/usblp.c: usblp0: USB Bidirectional printer dev 2 if 1 alt 0 proto 2 vid 0x03F0 pid 0x4811 [ 47.486709] usbcore: registered new interface driver usblp [ 47.486720] /build/buildd/linux-source-2.6.22-2.6.22/drivers/usb/class/usblp.c: v0.13: USB Printer Device Class driver [ 48.106570] firmware size=0x133a4 [ 50.500129] eth0: no IPv6 routers present [ 51.196134] emu1010: Hana Firmware loaded [ 51.196185] Hana ver:3.4 [ 51.196245] emu1010: Card options=0x1 [ 51.196272] emu1010: Card options=0x1 [ 51.196758] emu1010: Card options3=0x1 [ 51.314247] EMU outputs on [ 51.314263] EMU inputs on <...> > To see if the kernel is failing when loading any of your sound card drivers. > > I'll just shut up now. :) Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 01:52:29 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:52:29 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880801301634t61ef1f31m3a0281866a38aa1c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080131000750.2292.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <32f6a8880801301633t27a039f2i38ea4f45b4981bc7@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880801301634t61ef1f31m3a0281866a38aa1c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080131015231.1283.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Dave Germiquet writes: > I don't know if you've tried to see if your computer is detecting the > sound card using > > # lspci > > Command.... Looks like it's there in the last two lines: root at cpc:~# lspci 00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 82815 815 Chipset Host Bridge and Memory Controller Hub (rev 02) 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82815 Chipset Graphics Controller (CGC) (rev 02) 00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge (rev 01) 00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82801BA ISA Bridge (LPC) (rev 01) 00:1f.1 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801BA IDE U100 Controller (rev 01) 00:1f.4 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801BA/BAM USB Controller #1 (rev 01) 00:1f.5 Multimedia audio controller: Intel Corporation 82801BA/BAM AC'97 Audio Controller (rev 01) 02:08.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82801BA/BAM/CA/CAM Ethernet Controller (rev 01) 02:0a.0 Multimedia audio controller: Creative Labs SB Audigy (rev 03) 02:0a.2 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Creative Labs SB Audigy FireWire Port (rev 01) root at cpc:~# Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 02:08:15 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:08:15 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080131005555.GL26258-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080130180227.689.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130180905.GE26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080130191725.1060.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130195908.GG26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080130225013.17843.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080131005555.GL26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080131020815.28058.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Lennart Sorensen writes: > On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 05:50:13PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: >> That worked in ALSA for the Intel card - I hit spacebar and get a (red) 'L >> CAPTUR R' under, say, LINE. That's not working the same for ALSA on the >> emu1212m - there I can only get 'L CAPTUR R' under the ADC offerings - when >> I hit spacebar under LINE it shows no change. > > Hmm, the ones with '------' under them should be selectable as capture > sources. The only '------' I have are under the Items ADC1 14d, another ADC1 14d, ADC2 14d, and ADC3 14d. They are not "under" anything - above each one is only space. And, "yes" if I hit [spacebar] it shows a red 'L CAPTUR R' above the item. >> Okay, I see 'em - must be a hundred. > > emu chips have a LOT of I/O. :) My SB Live Platinum has 81 lines of > controls. I have "I/O envy". :) Chris > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 07:12:47 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 02:12:47 -0500 Subject: Keyboards Message-ID: <20080131071247.GA29267@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I currently own two buckling-spring keyboards, and IBM model M and a Northgate OmniKey 101. The OmniKey is currently in need of repair - the C key works oddly, not registering for several keypresses and then returning a swath of Cs at once. The IBM is fine. The problem is that I'd really like to get a second, working buckling-spring 'board for work, but I don't have time to try to fix my OmniKey. Does anyone on this list know where I could either get my OmniKey repaired, or get a buckling-spring 'board in Toronto? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 07:16:44 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 02:16:44 -0500 Subject: using screen Message-ID: <20080131071644.GB29267@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I am a generally happy Gnu screen user, but I have run into a problem. I am not old-school enough to know what the man page is talking about when they say this: C-a C-s (xoff) Send a control-s to the current window. I just know that it puts my screen instance into a state that I cannot return it from. Can someone tell me how to get my screen instance to talk to me again? Similarly, if I mis-click and hit C-a z, how do I get my session back? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 07:21:38 2008 From: kristian.hermansen-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kristian Erik Hermansen) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:21:38 -0800 Subject: using screen In-Reply-To: <20080131071644.GB29267-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20080131071644.GB29267@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Jan 30, 2008 11:16 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I am a generally happy Gnu screen user, but I have run into a problem. > I am not old-school enough to know what the man page is talking about > when they say this: > > C-a C-s (xoff) Send a control-s to the current window. > > I just know that it puts my screen instance into a state that I cannot > return it from. Can someone tell me how to get my screen instance to > talk to me again? Hrmm, dunno about that. You do know 'screen -ls' and 'screen -r' right? > Similarly, if I mis-click and hit C-a z, how do I get my session back? Anytime you put a process into the background, you can return it with 'fg'... -- Kristian Erik Hermansen "Know something about everything and everything about something." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 07:41:03 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 02:41:03 -0500 Subject: using screen In-Reply-To: References: <20080131071644.GB29267@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20080131074103.GA29583@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 11:21:38PM -0800, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: >On Jan 30, 2008 11:16 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman > wrote: >> I am a generally happy Gnu screen user, but I have run into a problem. >> I am not old-school enough to know what the man page is talking about >> when they say this: >> >> C-a C-s (xoff) Send a control-s to the current window. >> >> I just know that it puts my screen instance into a state that I cannot >> return it from. Can someone tell me how to get my screen instance to >> talk to me again? > >Hrmm, dunno about that. You do know 'screen -ls' and 'screen -r' right? I can go to the screen instance, but it does not echo any keystrokes, and as far as I can tell, it doesn't receive any - but I can use screen commands, to detach, switch instances, etc. Thanks though. >> Similarly, if I mis-click and hit C-a z, how do I get my session back? > >Anytime you put a process into the background, you can return it with 'fg'... Good to know that works here too. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 11:30:08 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 06:30:08 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <20080122184420.GH2309-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4788EC82.1010909@chrisaitken.net> <20080114150939.GU2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <478D2D32.5000700@chrisaitken.net> <20080117153719.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47953961.9000806@chrisaitken.net> <20080122004741.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479541FD.5020409@chrisaitken.net> <20080122145213.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4796360B.6040809@chrisaitken.net> <20080122184420.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080131113008.13454.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Lennart Sorensen writes: > On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 01:29:31PM -0500, Christopher Aitken wrote: >> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> >> >I just checked the archive, they moved it. Change multiverse to main in >> >sources.list for the line, then it should find it. >> > >> Okay, I changed that, then I ran sudo apt-get update, then installed >> alsa-firmware. I also tried to install alsa-base, alsa-source, >> alsa-tools, and alsa-utils, but some of them were already there in their >> newest version. Between each install I would run alsamixer to see if the >> card was detected - it was not. Is there any command I have to run to >> restart any service? > > Might have to unload and reload the module for the card, since I suspect > that is when the firmware is loaded. > > The simple solution would be to just reboot of course but you don't have > to. > > If you find the module name > lsmod |grep emu (I think the driver is emu something) > > then do > modprobe -r snd-emu... (whatever you found) I thought I'd finally try this: root at cpc:~# modprobe -f -r snd_emu10k1 FATAL: Module snd_emu10k1 is in use. I'm not running Audacity or alsamixer, so how is the soundcard "in use"? Chris > then > udevtrigger > to reload drivers for any present hardware not already handled. > > Hopefully the driver will find the firmware and load it automatically > this time. Certainly the ivtv drivers I have that use firmware files > behave that way. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 11:43:45 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 06:43:45 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080130170532.GD26258-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080130170532.GD26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080131114345.29108.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Lennart Sorensen writes: > On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 11:51:23AM -0500, Dave Germiquet wrote: >> I'm not sure if I'm out on a whim here, maybe someone else could say >> if im right or wrong but is it possible the irq's are conflicting? > > Seems unlikely given it is a PCI card. > > The message from the driver saying "can't load firmware file" seems more > likely to be a problem. I don't think this is the problem any more. I think this dmesg output all looks good: [ 47.313984] emu1010: Special config. [ 47.314103] emu1010: EMU_HANA_ID=0x7f [ 47.486647] /build/buildd/linux-source-2.6.22-2.6.22/drivers/usb/class/usblp.c: usblp0: USB Bidirectional printer dev 2 if 1 alt 0 proto 2 vid 0x03F0 pid 0x4811 [ 47.486709] usbcore: registered new interface driver usblp [ 47.486720] /build/buildd/linux-source-2.6.22-2.6.22/drivers/usb/class/usblp.c: v0.13: USB Printer Device Class driver [ 48.106570] firmware size=0x133a4 [ 50.500129] eth0: no IPv6 routers present [ 51.196134] emu1010: Hana Firmware loaded [ 51.196185] Hana ver:3.4 [ 51.196245] emu1010: Card options=0x1 [ 51.196272] emu1010: Card options=0x1 [ 51.196758] emu1010: Card options3=0x1 [ 51.314247] EMU outputs on [ 51.314263] EMU inputs on > May even be going to alsa 1.0.15 rather than 1.0.14rc would solve the > problem too. I guess I can't install that with apt-get... Chris > -- > Len Sorensen > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From edchin99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 11:38:14 2008 From: edchin99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (=?UTF-8?B?RWQg0K3QtNC00Lgg6Zmz5a2Q5p2+?=) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 07:38:14 -0400 Subject: 16mm projector In-Reply-To: <20080131012707.21636.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080131012707.21636.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <47A1B326.4090700@gmail.com> Does anyone know of any club, student/community group etc. which could use a 16mm sound projector? -- Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity. Albert Einstein -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tentra-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 12:40:00 2008 From: tentra-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Seneca Cunningham) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 07:40:00 -0500 Subject: using screen In-Reply-To: <20080131071644.GB29267-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20080131071644.GB29267@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20080131124000.GA21414@herodotus.lan> On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 02:16:44AM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > C-a C-s (xoff) Send a control-s to the current window. > > I just know that it puts my screen instance into a state that I cannot > return it from. Can someone tell me how to get my screen instance to > talk to me again? It's fairly simple. You just need to send it xon (C-a C-q). ^S and ^Q are basic flow control, and you can also use them in the console or at an xterm. You entering ^S, XOFF, tells the source you're connected to to stop transmitting. ^Q, XON, tells it that you are ready to receive more data. -- Seneca tentra-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available URL: From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 13:46:41 2008 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 08:46:41 -0500 Subject: 16mm projector In-Reply-To: <47A1B326.4090700-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20080131012707.21636.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <47A1B326.4090700@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080131134641.GA22129@otter.int.linuxcaffe.ca> On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 07:38:14AM -0400, Ed ???? ??? wrote: > Does anyone know of any club, student/community group etc. > which could use a 16mm sound projector? > Oh ! Oh ! (waving hand) we could use it at linuxcaffe, fer SHER ! We do free screenings and SOME crazy folks have 16mm masters. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 14:07:22 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:07:22 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080131015231.1283.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080131000750.2292.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <32f6a8880801301633t27a039f2i38ea4f45b4981bc7@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880801301634t61ef1f31m3a0281866a38aa1c@mail.gmail.com> <20080131015231.1283.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080131140722.GM26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 08:52:29PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > 00:1f.5 Multimedia audio controller: Intel Corporation 82801BA/BAM AC'97 Audio Controller (rev 01) That would then be the onboard sound. > 02:0a.0 Multimedia audio controller: Creative Labs SB Audigy (rev 03) > 02:0a.2 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Creative Labs SB Audigy FireWire Port (rev 01) Well 02:0a (bus 2 slot 10) would be it by the looks of it, and has two subfunctions being an emu10k2 and a firewire controller. So it is detecting that. The slot number on the bus does not have to make sense. They never start at 0 or 1, usually at 8. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 14:13:25 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:13:25 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080131015042.30708.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080131000750.2292.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <32f6a8880801301633t27a039f2i38ea4f45b4981bc7@mail.gmail.com> <20080131015042.30708.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080131141325.GN26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 08:50:42PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > Looks like it has its own IRQ: > > root at cpc:~# cat /proc/interrupts > CPU0 > 0: 292 IO-APIC-edge timer > 1: 12181 IO-APIC-edge i8042 > 6: 5 IO-APIC-edge floppy > 7: 0 IO-APIC-edge parport0 > 8: 3 IO-APIC-edge rtc > 9: 1 IO-APIC-fasteoi acpi > 12: 471474 IO-APIC-edge i8042 > 14: 158029 IO-APIC-edge libata > 15: 134739 IO-APIC-edge libata > 16: 70018 IO-APIC-fasteoi uhci_hcd:usb1 > 17: 29008 IO-APIC-fasteoi eth0 > 18: 3 IO-APIC-fasteoi ohci1394 > 19: 24487 IO-APIC-fasteoi EMU10K1 > 20: 0 IO-APIC-fasteoi Intel 82801BA-ICH2 The IRQs above 15 are probably APIC interrupts which most newer systems use which helps reduce the number of shared IRQs. Quite handy really. I have seen systems where the IRQs count up by 4 or 8 at a time. I am sure they have some mapping to reality but in linux they are really just mapped to some physical interrupt line somewhere. For example here is my new machine: test64:~# cat /proc/interrupts CPU0 CPU1 CPU2 CPU3 0: 4147451 4148059 4148003 4149140 IO-APIC-edge timer 1: 3594 3555 3579 3511 IO-APIC-edge i8042 8: 48379457 48381202 48380887 48379611 IO-APIC-edge rtc 9: 0 0 0 0 IO-APIC-fasteoi acpi 16: 372790 372531 372169 372333 IO-APIC-fasteoi uhci_hcd:usb1, ahci, firewire_ohci, nvidia 17: 545079 545118 545336 545302 IO-APIC-fasteoi ide0 18: 1 0 1 0 IO-APIC-fasteoi uhci_hcd:usb3, ehci_hcd:usb4, uhci_hcd:usb7 19: 0 0 0 0 IO-APIC-fasteoi uhci_hcd:usb6 21: 2251 2131 2131 2198 IO-APIC-fasteoi uhci_hcd:usb2 22: 2891 2797 2787 2869 IO-APIC-fasteoi libata, libata, HDA Intel 23: 0 0 0 0 IO-APIC-fasteoi uhci_hcd:usb5, ehci_hcd:usb8 1275: 643416 641424 641924 641854 PCI-MSI-edge eth0 NMI: 0 0 0 0 LOC: 16592025 16592005 16591893 16591877 ERR: 0 I like IRQ 1275. Apparently the ethernet on this machine now uses an MSI IRQ which is a new type of IRQ that is per PCI device and hence never needs sharing. The hope is all future designs will head that way since shared IRQs are less efficient (you have to make each driver that has a device on that IRQ check if its device causes the IRQ, while MSI means there is no sharing and hence you always go directly to the right driver and never waste any time checking for the actual source of the IRQ). > [ 47.313984] emu1010: Special config. > [ 47.314103] emu1010: EMU_HANA_ID=0x7f > [ 47.486647] > /build/buildd/linux-source-2.6.22-2.6.22/drivers/usb/class/usblp.c: usblp0: > USB Bidirectional printer dev 2 if 1 alt 0 proto 2 vid 0x03F0 pid 0x4811 > [ 47.486709] usbcore: registered new interface driver usblp > [ 47.486720] > /build/buildd/linux-source-2.6.22-2.6.22/drivers/usb/class/usblp.c: v0.13: > USB Printer Device Class driver > [ 48.106570] firmware size=0x133a4 > [ 50.500129] eth0: no IPv6 routers present > [ 51.196134] emu1010: Hana Firmware loaded That's a good sign. What changed since the time it said it couldn't load it? > [ 51.196185] Hana ver:3.4 > [ 51.196245] emu1010: Card options=0x1 > [ 51.196272] emu1010: Card options=0x1 > [ 51.196758] emu1010: Card options3=0x1 > [ 51.314247] EMU outputs on > [ 51.314263] EMU inputs on -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 14:14:52 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:14:52 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <20080131113008.13454.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080114150939.GU2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <478D2D32.5000700@chrisaitken.net> <20080117153719.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47953961.9000806@chrisaitken.net> <20080122004741.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479541FD.5020409@chrisaitken.net> <20080122145213.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4796360B.6040809@chrisaitken.net> <20080122184420.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080131113008.13454.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080131141452.GO26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 06:30:08AM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > I thought I'd finally try this: > > root at cpc:~# modprobe -f -r snd_emu10k1 > FATAL: Module snd_emu10k1 is in use. > > I'm not running Audacity or alsamixer, so how is the soundcard "in use"? Maybe artsd or jack or something is using it. Or you have a mixer icon in your X session that is using it. Your dmesg output now indicates everything is OK, so it really should be just down to mixer settings and selecting the right device to use. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 14:15:40 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:15:40 -0500 Subject: ubuntu 7.10 won't boot In-Reply-To: <20080131010921.22962.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080123210136.12414.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080124140207.GB16172@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47991F6B.2060007@chrisaitken.net> <20080131010921.22962.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080131141540.GP26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 08:09:21PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > When I say I had it working under fedora 7 I mean Playback was working. I > never got a chance to try Capture (recording) before my hard drive died. > Are my alsa/emu1212m investigations killing my hardware and OSes? > > :) Maybe your machine is dying. Bad power supply? Bad motherboard? Who knows. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 14:18:39 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:18:39 -0500 Subject: Keyboards In-Reply-To: <20080131071247.GA29267-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20080131071247.GA29267@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20080131141839.GQ26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 02:12:47AM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I currently own two buckling-spring keyboards, and IBM model M and a > Northgate OmniKey 101. The OmniKey is currently in need of repair - the > C key works oddly, not registering for several keypresses and then > returning a swath of Cs at once. The IBM is fine. > > The problem is that I'd really like to get a second, working > buckling-spring 'board for work, but I don't have time to try to fix my > OmniKey. Does anyone on this list know where I could either get my > OmniKey repaired, or get a buckling-spring 'board in Toronto? Thanks. Is a "buckling-spring" keyboard one of those stupidly noisy ones that give your fingers extra exercize when you use them? Man those things were annoying. Slow down my typing a lot and ruing the whole point of having a quiet computer in the first place. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 14:19:56 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:19:56 -0500 Subject: using screen In-Reply-To: References: <20080131071644.GB29267@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20080131141956.GR26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 11:21:38PM -0800, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > On Jan 30, 2008 11:16 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman > wrote: > > I am a generally happy Gnu screen user, but I have run into a problem. > > I am not old-school enough to know what the man page is talking about > > when they say this: > > > > C-a C-s (xoff) Send a control-s to the current window. > > > > I just know that it puts my screen instance into a state that I cannot > > return it from. Can someone tell me how to get my screen instance to > > talk to me again? > > Hrmm, dunno about that. You do know 'screen -ls' and 'screen -r' right? Sending an xoff tells the terminal to pause. sending an xon (C-q) lets it go again. Similar to scroll lock on a linux text console. > > Similarly, if I mis-click and hit C-a z, how do I get my session back? > > Anytime you put a process into the background, you can return it with 'fg'... Yep. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 14:30:54 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:30:54 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080131020815.28058.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080130180227.689.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130180905.GE26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080130191725.1060.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130195908.GG26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080130225013.17843.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080131005555.GL26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080131020815.28058.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080131143054.GS26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 09:08:15PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > The only '------' I have are under the Items ADC1 14d, another ADC1 14d, > ADC2 14d, and ADC3 14d. They are not "under" anything - above each one is > only space. And, "yes" if I hit [spacebar] it shows a red 'L CAPTUR R' > above the item. Well ADC tends to mean analog to digital convertor, also known as an input. Most likely one of those is the inputs you are looking for. I do see some claims that things work much better with alsa 1.0.15 rather than 1.0.14. That unfortunately requires 2.6.24 kernel or an external alsa driver compile. Certainly debian has alsa 1.0.15 packages available in the unstable release that can be compiled against any recent kernel, so if ubuntu doesn't have that it would be easy to get from debian and use that. Apparently configuring routing of ports on the emu devices is still a bit confusing. They are capable of many weird things which of course means they are complex to setup. Apparently the capture device setup was under playback initially which of course makes no sense at all. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 14:42:48 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:42:48 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080131114345.29108.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080130170532.GD26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080131114345.29108.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080131144248.GT26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 06:43:45AM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > I guess I can't install that with apt-get... Well one method would be to just get the .deb packages from somewhere that has them such as ubuntu hardy. You can get the .deb's and install them with dpkg -i blah.deb ... You can find them here: http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/a/alsa-driver/ http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/a/alsa-lib/ http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/a/alsa-utils/ http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/a/alsa-plugins/ And you can get the alsa-firmware for 1.0.15 from the same place you got it before, or you can get it here: http://ppa.launchpad.net/tsmithe/ubuntu/pool/main/a/alsa-firmware/ -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 14:43:08 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:43:08 -0500 Subject: alsamixer mystery functions In-Reply-To: <20080131012707.21636.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080131012707.21636.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0801310643s52c82f09yd78272a3fadfc10d@mail.gmail.com> You mentioned "Alsamixergui", so I assume you'er using an graphical environment: kde, gnome, or other? Nowadays I use kmix (with KDE, much nicer integration than alsamixer), and before that I had good luck with "tkmixer" for simple level control, etc. You might want to give one of those a try if alsamixer is being a major pain. On Jan 30, 2008 8:27 PM, wrote: > I've been soliciting help on another list. They are taking a while getting > back to me so I thought I'd run a couple of mysteries by you. > > "Under ALSA mixer you need the switches tab, which allows you to select > which input you are recording from. You turn up the levels under the > recording tab, which has a master called capture." > > I have NO tabs in alsamixer or alsamixer gui. alsamixer is just a row of > level bars. The only "tabs" is the use of the [Tab] button on the keyboard > that only lets you select among [Playback], [Capture], and [All] which just > shows you some or all of the level bars. > > Also, another user referred to 'Preferences' in the 'Edit' menu. I have no > menus at all in alsamixer or alsamixergui. > > ?!?! > > Chris > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 477-1784 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 14:55:38 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:55:38 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080131144248.GT26258-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080130170532.GD26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080131114345.29108.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080131144248.GT26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080131145538.GU26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 09:42:48AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well one method would be to just get the .deb packages from somewhere > that has them such as ubuntu hardy. > > You can get the .deb's and install them with dpkg -i blah.deb ... > > You can find them here: > http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/a/alsa-driver/ > http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/a/alsa-lib/ > http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/a/alsa-utils/ > http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/a/alsa-plugins/ > > And you can get the alsa-firmware for 1.0.15 from the same place you got > it before, or you can get it here: > > http://ppa.launchpad.net/tsmithe/ubuntu/pool/main/a/alsa-firmware/ If you do install all those updated alsa packages (and I guess any dependancies they demand as well), then you can compile and install the updated alsa-source drivers with this command: apt-get install module-assistant m-a -t prepare m-a a-i -t alsa That should hopefully work OK, and after a reboot you should hopefully see alsa version 1.0.15 in /proc/asound/version Hopefully at that point the mixer settings become more sane since it won't be the very first early release of support for the emu, but rather the updated and somewhat more complete driver. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 15:03:21 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:03:21 -0500 Subject: Keyboards In-Reply-To: <20080131141839.GQ26258-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080131071247.GA29267@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20080131141839.GQ26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080131150321.GA922@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 09:18:39AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 02:12:47AM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> I currently own two buckling-spring keyboards, and IBM model M and a >> Northgate OmniKey 101. The OmniKey is currently in need of repair - the >> C key works oddly, not registering for several keypresses and then >> returning a swath of Cs at once. The IBM is fine. >> >> The problem is that I'd really like to get a second, working >> buckling-spring 'board for work, but I don't have time to try to fix my >> OmniKey. Does anyone on this list know where I could either get my >> OmniKey repaired, or get a buckling-spring 'board in Toronto? Thanks. > >Is a "buckling-spring" keyboard one of those stupidly noisy ones that >give your fingers extra exercize when you use them? Yes, those are the ones. I resent the "stupidly", but I learned to type on a manual typewriter, and I want to actually feel like something is happening, rather than have to watch the screen the whole time. >Man those things were annoying. Slow down my typing a lot and ruing the >whole point of having a quiet computer in the first place. :) The squishy, inaccurate membrane keyboard that you use silently is the cause of many errors to me, and who says I have a quiet computer? -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 15:19:22 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:19:22 -0500 Subject: Keyboards In-Reply-To: <20080131150321.GA922-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20080131071247.GA29267@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20080131141839.GQ26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080131150321.GA922@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3a97ef0801310719v68000131xd9130a0807be3487@mail.gmail.com> Just to add my own 2c. >From what I remember the "exercise" is a lot better for your fingers than many of the cheaper, low-resistance keyboards. Old springy-style keys offered a more gradual resistance to typing, so that those who are used to them "bounce" their fingers off the keys. Many of the more modern keyboards, in comparison, have low resistance. This means that your fingers have more impact at the end, similar to continuously driving them against a hard surface. Many people I've talked to find that the springy keyboards cause less wear-and-tear on one's digits because of this, and they still have a strong following in many circle (especially the old IBM "clickety-clack" ones). Plus it really sounds like you're getting a lot done when you go to town on those suckers *clicketyclicketyclickety* :-) On Jan 31, 2008 10:03 AM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 09:18:39AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 02:12:47AM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > >> I currently own two buckling-spring keyboards, and IBM model M and a > >> Northgate OmniKey 101. The OmniKey is currently in need of repair - the > >> C key works oddly, not registering for several keypresses and then > >> returning a swath of Cs at once. The IBM is fine. > >> > >> The problem is that I'd really like to get a second, working > >> buckling-spring 'board for work, but I don't have time to try to fix my > >> OmniKey. Does anyone on this list know where I could either get my > >> OmniKey repaired, or get a buckling-spring 'board in Toronto? Thanks. > > > >Is a "buckling-spring" keyboard one of those stupidly noisy ones that > >give your fingers extra exercize when you use them? > > Yes, those are the ones. I resent the "stupidly", but I learned to type > on a manual typewriter, and I want to actually feel like something is > happening, rather than have to watch the screen the whole time. > > >Man those things were annoying. Slow down my typing a lot and ruing the > >whole point of having a quiet computer in the first place. :) > > The squishy, inaccurate membrane keyboard that you use silently is the > cause of many errors to me, and who says I have a quiet computer? > -- > > yours, > > William > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFHoeM4HQtmiuz+KT8RAv/3AKCFbwh+Jn+CtvS96DcshIrw44mbUACeJNni > OA0sEB4YyJuQKKBbCSooSEQ= > =11Bh > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 477-1784 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 15:51:01 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:51:01 -0500 Subject: Canadian Web Host (Shared) with PHP 5.2.1 In-Reply-To: <4793ABBE.1050704-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4793A1BA.8020100@rogers.com> <4793ABBE.1050704@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280801310751h4888b7bfs7857c643d60134eb@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 20, 2008 3:14 PM, Stephen wrote: > I found http://hostpapa.ca/index.shtml > > They look good for me. Anyone use them? I keep looking at their listing, then shaking my head and going away. And the next day I do it again. Am I reading this right? They're offering me 1.5 Tb of storage (and 15 Tb of bandwidth) per month for $6? So if they get a bunch of clients who actually _use_ the storage and transfer they're offering, they'll implode? I'm tempted to buy in and use them for encrypted offsite backup. encfs and rsync/ssh should work well (assuming of course they provide rsync, which I consider essential in a hosting provider). -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 16:06:30 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:06:30 -0500 Subject: Keyboards In-Reply-To: <20080131071247.GA29267-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20080131071247.GA29267@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1f13df280801310806r47844dcco87277091b4a0bd0c@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 31, 2008 2:12 AM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I currently own two buckling-spring keyboards, and IBM model M and a > Northgate OmniKey 101. The OmniKey is currently in need of repair - the > C key works oddly, not registering for several keypresses and then > returning a swath of Cs at once. The IBM is fine. > > The problem is that I'd really like to get a second, working > buckling-spring 'board for work, but I don't have time to try to fix my > OmniKey. Does anyone on this list know where I could either get my > OmniKey repaired, or get a buckling-spring 'board in Toronto? Thanks. [I'm responding to some criticisms in the thread which I didn't copy here - I hope what I'm answering will be fairly obvious.] Aside from the noise, which I agree can be extremely annoying, I find the IBM Model M keyboards wonderful: I like the key feel, they're extremely precise (there's never any question of whether or not you've hit the key), and they're extremely reliable and essentially indestructible. Oh, and they weigh a couple kilos each because they've got a massive steel back plate. Judge for yourself whether that's a plus or a minus. The big disadvantages are that they're not "ergonomic" (I mostly use a Kinesis Advantage these days, worth the price) and they're not USB. To answer the primary question, there are (as always) dozens of them available for sale on eBay.ca for $5-$10. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 16:23:18 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:23:18 -0500 Subject: using screen In-Reply-To: <20080131141956.GR26258-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080131071644.GB29267@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20080131141956.GR26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1f13df280801310823j677a2e0by8cdf59ed2ba624b0@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 31, 2008 9:19 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 11:21:38PM -0800, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > > On Jan 30, 2008 11:16 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman > > wrote: > > > I am a generally happy Gnu screen user, but I have run into a problem. > > > I am not old-school enough to know what the man page is talking about > > > when they say this: > > > > > > C-a C-s (xoff) Send a control-s to the current window. > > > > > > I just know that it puts my screen instance into a state that I cannot > > > return it from. Can someone tell me how to get my screen instance to > > > talk to me again? > > > > Hrmm, dunno about that. You do know 'screen -ls' and 'screen -r' right? > > Sending an xoff tells the terminal to pause. sending an xon (C-q) lets > it go again. Similar to scroll lock on a linux text console. Huh. Thanks for the clarification, I've always wondered about that having accidentally hit that key myself. And since we're on the subject of screen ... I've always wanted to be able to split screens in screen, and I found in the man page that you can in fact do that with Ctrl-a s ... But then I haven't the slightest idea how to get into the new and empty half of the window or start a shell there. Has anyone used that functionality? -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 16:33:15 2008 From: spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (R.T.) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:33:15 -0500 Subject: using screen In-Reply-To: <1f13df280801310823j677a2e0by8cdf59ed2ba624b0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080131071644.GB29267@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20080131141956.GR26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1f13df280801310823j677a2e0by8cdf59ed2ba624b0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: 'man screen' will tell ya... C-a tab (focus) Switch the input focus to the next region. C-a :focus [up|down|top|bottom] Move the input focus to the next region. This is done in a cyclic way so that the top region is selected after the bottom one. If no subcommand is given it defaults to 'down'. 'up' cycles in the opposite order, 'top' and 'bottom' go to the top and bottom region respectively. Useful bindings are (j and k as in vi) bind j focus down bind k focus up bind t focus top bind b focus bottom On Jan 31, 2008 11:23 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > On Jan 31, 2008 9:19 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 11:21:38PM -0800, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > > > On Jan 30, 2008 11:16 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman > > > wrote: > > > > I am a generally happy Gnu screen user, but I have run into a problem. > > > > I am not old-school enough to know what the man page is talking about > > > > when they say this: > > > > > > > > C-a C-s (xoff) Send a control-s to the current window. > > > > > > > > I just know that it puts my screen instance into a state that I cannot > > > > return it from. Can someone tell me how to get my screen instance to > > > > talk to me again? > > > > > > Hrmm, dunno about that. You do know 'screen -ls' and 'screen -r' right? > > > > Sending an xoff tells the terminal to pause. sending an xon (C-q) lets > > it go again. Similar to scroll lock on a linux text console. > > Huh. Thanks for the clarification, I've always wondered about that > having accidentally hit that key myself. > > And since we're on the subject of screen ... I've always wanted to be > able to split screens in screen, and I found in the man page that you > can in fact do that with Ctrl-a s ... But then I haven't the > slightest idea how to get into the new and empty half of the window or > start a shell there. Has anyone used that functionality? > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 16:41:27 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:41:27 -0500 Subject: Keyboards In-Reply-To: <20080131150321.GA922-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20080131071247.GA29267@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20080131141839.GQ26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080131150321.GA922@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20080131164127.GV26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 10:03:21AM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Yes, those are the ones. I resent the "stupidly", but I learned to type > on a manual typewriter, and I want to actually feel like something is > happening, rather than have to watch the screen the whole time. I personally like keytronic keyboards. Nice feel to them, and not very noisy and they don't take that much force to push a key down which helps for typing quickly, but you certainly do have to actually push them down a fair distance. > The squishy, inaccurate membrane keyboard that you use silently is the > cause of many errors to me, and who says I have a quiet computer? There are lots of keyboards I don't like which are too mushy. Mostly I hate the lousy layouts many keyboards have. I will stick with my KT800. Never breaks, but it does use colapsible rubber towers as the keys (so not as bad as the membrame on many laptop keyboards). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 16:43:42 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:43:42 -0500 Subject: Keyboards In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0801310719v68000131xd9130a0807be3487-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080131071247.GA29267@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20080131141839.GQ26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080131150321.GA922@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <3a97ef0801310719v68000131xd9130a0807be3487@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080131164342.GW26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 10:19:22AM -0500, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Just to add my own 2c. > > From what I remember the "exercise" is a lot better for your fingers > than many of the cheaper, low-resistance keyboards. Old springy-style > keys offered a more gradual resistance to typing, so that those who > are used to them "bounce" their fingers off the keys. Many of the more > modern keyboards, in comparison, have low resistance. This means that > your fingers have more impact at the end, similar to continuously > driving them against a hard surface. Many people I've talked to find > that the springy keyboards cause less wear-and-tear on one's digits > because of this, and they still have a strong following in many circle > (especially the old IBM "clickety-clack" ones). Plus it really sounds > like you're getting a lot done when you go to town on those suckers > *clicketyclicketyclickety* :-) When I type I prefer to actually get stuff done rather than sounding like I get stuff done. I think there are many keyboards that are way too soft, but on the other hand the old spring clonkers are way too hard. There are ways to make a good balance of the two, which to me as where keytronic is at and has been for many many years. I don't think they have changed anything in the key mechanism for at least 15 years. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 16:46:17 2008 From: spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (R.T.) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:46:17 -0500 Subject: using screen In-Reply-To: <1f13df280801310823j677a2e0by8cdf59ed2ba624b0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080131071644.GB29267@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20080131141956.GR26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1f13df280801310823j677a2e0by8cdf59ed2ba624b0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Almost forgot... to start a new window/shell in the current region: C-a c C-a C-c (screen) Create a new window with a shell and switch to that window. On Jan 31, 2008 11:23 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > On Jan 31, 2008 9:19 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 11:21:38PM -0800, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote: > > > On Jan 30, 2008 11:16 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman > > > wrote: > > > > I am a generally happy Gnu screen user, but I have run into a problem. > > > > I am not old-school enough to know what the man page is talking about > > > > when they say this: > > > > > > > > C-a C-s (xoff) Send a control-s to the current window. > > > > > > > > I just know that it puts my screen instance into a state that I cannot > > > > return it from. Can someone tell me how to get my screen instance to > > > > talk to me again? > > > > > > Hrmm, dunno about that. You do know 'screen -ls' and 'screen -r' right? > > > > Sending an xoff tells the terminal to pause. sending an xon (C-q) lets > > it go again. Similar to scroll lock on a linux text console. > > Huh. Thanks for the clarification, I've always wondered about that > having accidentally hit that key myself. > > And since we're on the subject of screen ... I've always wanted to be > able to split screens in screen, and I found in the man page that you > can in fact do that with Ctrl-a s ... But then I haven't the > slightest idea how to get into the new and empty half of the window or > start a shell there. Has anyone used that functionality? > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 16:49:21 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:49:21 -0500 Subject: using screen In-Reply-To: <1f13df280801310823j677a2e0by8cdf59ed2ba624b0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080131071644.GB29267@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20080131141956.GR26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1f13df280801310823j677a2e0by8cdf59ed2ba624b0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080131164921.GX26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 11:23:18AM -0500, Giles Orr wrote: > Huh. Thanks for the clarification, I've always wondered about that > having accidentally hit that key myself. > > And since we're on the subject of screen ... I've always wanted to be > able to split screens in screen, and I found in the man page that you > can in fact do that with Ctrl-a s ... But then I haven't the > slightest idea how to get into the new and empty half of the window or > start a shell there. Has anyone used that functionality? C-a tab goes to next region. Then C-a n or p to toggle between your existing screen sessions in that region as per usual. C-a X deletes the current region. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 17:10:42 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:10:42 -0500 Subject: RAID and Linux Message-ID: <20080131171042.GA1816@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I have inherited a Dell PowerEdge 6800, and I'm about to put Linux (Debian) on it. It has three drives right now, but I am likely going to want to add drives in the future. I plan to use RAID 4 or 5, and I want to set it up so that I need to do as little as possible to add more storage. Are there any caveats or gotchas I should be aware of? I started an installation to see what it said about the HD, and it shows a single SCSI MegaRaid device of 270ish Gb, which fits with what I know of RAID 4/5 for three 146Gb disks. I've never used RAID before, and I don't want to paint myself into a corner. Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 17:12:36 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:12:36 -0500 Subject: using screen In-Reply-To: <20080131141956.GR26258-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080131071644.GB29267@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20080131141956.GR26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080131171236.GB1816@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 09:19:56AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >Sending an xoff tells the terminal to pause. sending an xon (C-q) lets >it go again. Similar to scroll lock on a linux text console. Excellent, that's just what I needed. Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 17:26:13 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:26:13 -0500 Subject: RAID and Linux In-Reply-To: <20080131171042.GA1816-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20080131171042.GA1816@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20080131172613.GY26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 12:10:42PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I have inherited a Dell PowerEdge 6800, and I'm about to put Linux > (Debian) on it. It has three drives right now, but I am likely going to > want to add drives in the future. I plan to use RAID 4 or 5, and I want > to set it up so that I need to do as little as possible to add more > storage. I haven't used software raid5, but I believe it supports adding devices later. > Are there any caveats or gotchas I should be aware of? > > I started an installation to see what it said about the HD, and it shows > a single SCSI MegaRaid device of 270ish Gb, which fits with what I know > of RAID 4/5 for three 146Gb disks. I've never used RAID before, and I > don't want to paint myself into a corner. Thanks. Well if you use hardware raid then it isn't up to linux to support adding to the existing raid, it depends on the raid controller. Some support expanding a raid5, some do not. The only one I have worked with was an ibm serveraid which certainly did support expanding the raid with extra drives later. I used that feature a few times. Personally I would rather use linux software raid since the performance for raid1 certainly dropped significantly moving from linux software raid to the ibm serveraid 4m with the same disks. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 17:26:15 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:26:15 -0500 Subject: Keyboards In-Reply-To: <1f13df280801310806r47844dcco87277091b4a0bd0c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080131071247.GA29267@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1f13df280801310806r47844dcco87277091b4a0bd0c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47A204B7.3030205@rogers.com> Giles Orr wrote: > On Jan 31, 2008 2:12 AM, William O'Higgins Witteman > wrote: >> I currently own two buckling-spring keyboards, and IBM model M and a >> Northgate OmniKey 101. The OmniKey is currently in need of repair - the >> C key works oddly, not registering for several keypresses and then >> returning a swath of Cs at once. The IBM is fine. >> >> The problem is that I'd really like to get a second, working >> buckling-spring 'board for work, but I don't have time to try to fix my >> OmniKey. Does anyone on this list know where I could either get my >> OmniKey repaired, or get a buckling-spring 'board in Toronto? Thanks. > > [I'm responding to some criticisms in the thread which I didn't copy > here - I hope what I'm answering will be fairly obvious.] > > Aside from the noise, which I agree can be extremely annoying, I find > the IBM Model M keyboards wonderful: I like the key feel, they're > extremely precise (there's never any question of whether or not you've > hit the key), and they're extremely reliable and essentially > indestructible. Oh, and they weigh a couple kilos each because > they've got a massive steel back plate. Judge for yourself whether > that's a plus or a minus. The big disadvantages are that they're not > "ergonomic" (I mostly use a Kinesis Advantage these days, worth the > price) and they're not USB. > > To answer the primary question, there are (as always) dozens of them > available for sale on eBay.ca for $5-$10. > I also use one of those. I bought a few of them years ago. I find they're great to use, compared to the keyboard on my work computer (Dell Inspiron notebook), which I find is irritating to use. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 18:07:05 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:07:05 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080131141325.GN26258-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080131000750.2292.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <32f6a8880801301633t27a039f2i38ea4f45b4981bc7@mail.gmail.com> <20080131015042.30708.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080131141325.GN26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080131180705.31068.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Lennart Sorensen writes: >> USB Printer Device Class driver >> [ 48.106570] firmware size=0x133a4 >> [ 50.500129] eth0: no IPv6 routers present >> [ 51.196134] emu1010: Hana Firmware loaded > > That's a good sign. What changed since the time it said it couldn't > load it? Well, my (probably inaccurate) records show that I copied hana.fw from /lib/firmware/emu to /lib/firmware. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 18:09:43 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:09:43 -0500 Subject: emu 1212m pci on ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <20080131141452.GO26258-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080114150939.GU2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <478D2D32.5000700@chrisaitken.net> <20080117153719.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <47953961.9000806@chrisaitken.net> <20080122004741.GB2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <479541FD.5020409@chrisaitken.net> <20080122145213.GC2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4796360B.6040809@chrisaitken.net> <20080122184420.GH2309@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080131113008.13454.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080131141452.GO26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080131180944.6322.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Lennart Sorensen writes: > Your dmesg output now indicates everything is OK, so it really should be > just down to mixer settings and selecting the right device to use. I hope so. A week or so ago I had a high-pitched noise coming form the computer - now the spueal is gone - I hope the card (or part of the card) didn't go from dying to dead... Chris > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 18:13:55 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:13:55 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080131143054.GS26258-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080130161009.18472.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130162745.GC26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080130180227.689.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130180905.GE26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080130191725.1060.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130195908.GG26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080130225013.17843.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080131005555.GL26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080131020815.28058.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080131143054.GS26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080131181355.19192.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Lennart Sorensen writes: > On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 09:08:15PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: >> The only '------' I have are under the Items ADC1 14d, another ADC1 14d, >> ADC2 14d, and ADC3 14d. They are not "under" anything - above each one is >> only space. And, "yes" if I hit [spacebar] it shows a red 'L CAPTUR R' >> above the item. > > Well ADC tends to mean analog to digital convertor, also known as an > input. Most likely one of those is the inputs you are looking for. Okay, but here's a new ripple: Why is there not a level control bar above those ADC 'Items' (Devices)? The alsa manual suggests that there should be (from the way I understood that document). > I do see some claims that things work much better with alsa 1.0.15 > rather than 1.0.14. That unfortunately requires 2.6.24 kernel or an > external alsa driver compile. Certainly debian has alsa 1.0.15 packages > available in the unstable release that can be compiled against any > recent kernel, so if ubuntu doesn't have that it would be easy to get > from debian and use that. > > Apparently configuring routing of ports on the emu devices is still a > bit confusing. They are capable of many weird things which of course > means they are complex to setup. Apparently the capture device setup > was under playback initially which of course makes no sense at all. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 18:21:13 2008 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:21:13 -0500 Subject: Keyboards In-Reply-To: <20080131071247.GA29267-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20080131071247.GA29267@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20080131182113.GB7012@adb.ca> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > The problem is that I'd really like to get a second, working > buckling-spring 'board for work, but I don't have time to try to fix my > OmniKey. Does anyone on this list know where I could either get my > OmniKey repaired, or get a buckling-spring 'board in Toronto? Thanks. If you run out of local options, www.clickykeyboards.com has them, and I bought a Model M from them without any undue drama. The other online source I'm aware of is www.pckeyboard.com. The former is selling new old stock (in other words, stuff made back then but still unused) with the IBM logo, while the latter says they have the production equipment formerly used by IBM's keyboard division. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 19:13:13 2008 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 31 Jan 2008 14:13:13 -0500 Subject: 2 junior job positions at starnix In-Reply-To: References: <20080131112901.59953338@caliope> Message-ID: Hi all, I have two (2) 6 month (could turn permanent) positions that HRDC is funding. One is a web app so familiarity with Perl + HTML + SQL would be a good background. The other is working on Linux infrastructure (think CRM and helpdesk). I have to point out that the the job is intended for people having trouble getting some good experience in their chosen industry. Thus, the non-technical requirements are: - between 15 and 30 years old - university or college diploma - resident of canada and allowed to work here - not a student (as of the start date) If anyone's interested, please contact me directly. PS: There's actually a third position for someone interested in the education and training field (they'd need a diploma somewhat along those lines, though). Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix care, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 19:44:19 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:44:19 -0500 Subject: Keyboards In-Reply-To: <20080131164342.GW26258-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080131071247.GA29267@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20080131141839.GQ26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080131150321.GA922@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <3a97ef0801310719v68000131xd9130a0807be3487@mail.gmail.com> <20080131164342.GW26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0801311144v2173a993qb1efa11ac8a846ad@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 31, 2008 11:43 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 10:19:22AM -0500, Tyler Aviss wrote: > > Just to add my own 2c. > > > > From what I remember the "exercise" is a lot better for your fingers > > than many of the cheaper, low-resistance keyboards. Old springy-style > > keys offered a more gradual resistance to typing, so that those who > > are used to them "bounce" their fingers off the keys. Many of the more > > modern keyboards, in comparison, have low resistance. This means that > > your fingers have more impact at the end, similar to continuously > > driving them against a hard surface. Many people I've talked to find > > that the springy keyboards cause less wear-and-tear on one's digits > > because of this, and they still have a strong following in many circle > > (especially the old IBM "clickety-clack" ones). Plus it really sounds > > like you're getting a lot done when you go to town on those suckers > > *clicketyclicketyclickety* :-) > > When I type I prefer to actually get stuff done rather than sounding > like I get stuff done. > You could get just as much done either way, but with the model M's it was pretty apparently. I used to work in a school district, and you should hear some of the older secretaries go nuts typing on the things :-) > I think there are many keyboards that are way too soft, but on the other > hand the old spring clonkers are way too hard. There are ways to make a > good balance of the two, which to me as where keytronic is at and has > been for many many years. I don't think they have changed anything in > the key mechanism for at least 15 years. > > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 477-1784 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 20:20:20 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:20:20 -0500 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <20080131181355.19192.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880801300851m6e3aeda1pf5c0a8ffbbb60dbe@mail.gmail.com> <20080130180227.689.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130180905.GE26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080130191725.1060.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080130195908.GG26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080130225013.17843.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080131005555.GL26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080131020815.28058.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20080131143054.GS26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080131181355.19192.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20080131202020.GZ26258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 01:13:55PM -0500, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > Okay, but here's a new ripple: Why is there not a level control bar above > those ADC 'Items' (Devices)? The alsa manual suggests that there should be > (from the way I understood that document). That I don't know. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 20:26:49 2008 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 31 Jan 2008 15:26:49 -0500 Subject: 2 junior job positions at starnix In-Reply-To: References: <20080131112901.59953338@caliope> Message-ID: "G. Matthew Rice" writes: > I have to point out that the the job is intended for people having trouble > getting some good experience in their chosen industry. Thus, the > non-technical requirements are: > > - between 15 and 30 years old > - university or college diploma > - resident of canada and allowed to work here > - not a student (as of the start date) I thought that I should qualify that the above requirements are part of the criteria for the HRDC programme that this is under. Sorry for replying to my own post. I just wouldn't want to get accused of ageism oor anything like that. And don't ask the odds of finding a 15 yo with a diploma or degree ;) Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix care, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists