From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 1 04:55:47 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 00:55:47 -0400 Subject: LinkSys WRTSL54GS router, DD-WRT Linux - contract In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <32f6a8880807312155l19f54879oa106d2d7873ab59d@mail.gmail.com> Hi Chris, I wouldn't use DD-WRT for those purposes, I would use Tomato or OpenWRT. DD-WRT, I found cpu usage was soo high and the load was high. On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 3:15 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > I have a client who needs help pushing a LinkSys WRTSL54GS router > (running DD-WRT Linux) to the limit. > > He wants to run a web server (with WebDAV), FTP server, VPN, etc. > open to the 'net, and Web server, SMB server, etc. private to his > home network. > > If anyone is familiar with this distro and router (or similar) > and is interested in a small contract, please contact me > off-list. > > > -- > Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster > ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== > Author: > Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 1 10:13:04 2008 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 06:13:04 -0400 Subject: OT-DVD In-Reply-To: <4891BBD0.7080603-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org>; from teddy-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org on Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 09:19:12 -0400 References: <48909B81.1000908@tmis.ca> <20080731003414.0c227744@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <4891BA11.8040503@totaltravelmarketing.com> <4891BBD0.7080603@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <20080801101304.GA1934@localhost> On Thu Jul 31,2008 09:19:12 AM Teddy wrote: > 2) firmware upgradeable (not sure how a consumer DVD player is > upgraded) Usually the manufacturer provides an ISO image that you burn to CD. When you put the CD into the DVD player, it recognises that it contains new firmware and prompts you to perform an upgrade. I've upgraded two different DVD players this way. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 1 13:08:56 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:08:56 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly laptops In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0808010608m7dd76e0o1b9e3def77c5f15b@mail.gmail.com> Hmmm. Looks like now is perhaps not a great time to buy a laptop with an Nvidia chipset: http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/01/0142219 I haven't bought anything but NV graphics cards for the last 5-6 years though, so I'm not really sure what the comparable ATI chipsets would be. On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Hey all, > > > I've been laptop shopping recently and was wondering if anyone had > good/bad experiences to share with whatever's available in the area. > My current laptop is getting a bit long in the tooth, and seems to be > running a bit hot these days (despite the fans being nicely clear of > obstruction), as well as a bit slower for modern apps. > > I'm mainly looking at HP and possibly Asus laptops. Anyone recently > buy a laptop and have any happy/horror stories to share? > > Preferred specs are: > * 14-15.4" LCD (17" seems a bit bulky/heavy, but bigger might be OK if > light enough) > * Good graphics card (NVidia or ATI, seems that ATI's drivers for 'nix > are a lot better after the AMD buyout) > * 2GB+ of RAM > * 64-bit Dual-Core CPU, maybe around the 2Ghz+ range per core? I > believe the Core2Duo's are supposed to perform better, but I do still > have a soft-spot for AMD... > * Decent soundcard+speakers. Harmon Kardon? > * 802.11N if possible, native linux drivers a definite plus (Intel IPW > or otherwise? preferably *not* Broadcomm, current experiences even > with the native driver /w firmware seem to suck compared to windows) > * Cardreader that works in 'nix > * Bluetooth that works in 'nix (never had any problems getting BT > working on 'nix though, even the cheap ones) > * An integrated camera that has linux drivers would be nice > * 3-4+ USB ports > * DVD-RW (lightscribe would be nice) > * PCMCIA slot (nice, but seems to be less needed with most things USB > these days) > * TV-in (linux compatible) would be a great, if unlikely, feature... > * Firewire would be nice, if linux-compatible > > So far I've seen a lot of nice-looking HP's at the big-box stores > (Best-Buy, Future Shop) and some decent-seeming Asus's at places like > Filtech, etc. > > > > Suggestions? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 1 15:25:48 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:25:48 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly laptops In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0808010608m7dd76e0o1b9e3def77c5f15b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0808010608m7dd76e0o1b9e3def77c5f15b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080801152548.GD9391@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 09:08:56AM -0400, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Hmmm. Looks like now is perhaps not a great time to buy a laptop with > an Nvidia chipset: > > http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/01/0142219 > > I haven't bought anything but NV graphics cards for the last 5-6 years > though, so I'm not really sure what the comparable ATI chipsets would > be. So they have had a bad batch of chips. Whatever. It happens. As long as they replace them without issue, I wouldn't worry about it. Good support when needed is better than bad support (which is what I think of ATI as having). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 1 19:44:48 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 15:44:48 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly laptops In-Reply-To: <20080801152548.GD9391-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0808010608m7dd76e0o1b9e3def77c5f15b@mail.gmail.com> <20080801152548.GD9391@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0808011244g2e33a748sfd48c270c7d858c7@mail.gmail.com> My understanding is that the current "fix" for these chips is to patch the BIOS of affected machines to run the cooling fans on a more constant basis to prevent overheating, so they're not really replacing them in these cases. On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:25 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 09:08:56AM -0400, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> Hmmm. Looks like now is perhaps not a great time to buy a laptop with >> an Nvidia chipset: >> >> http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/01/0142219 >> >> I haven't bought anything but NV graphics cards for the last 5-6 years >> though, so I'm not really sure what the comparable ATI chipsets would >> be. > > So they have had a bad batch of chips. Whatever. It happens. As long > as they replace them without issue, I wouldn't worry about it. > > Good support when needed is better than bad support (which is what I > think of ATI as having). > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 1 20:14:54 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux-friendly laptops In-Reply-To: <4891FB99.9010509-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4@mail.gmail.com> <4891D032.6000104@utoronto.ca> <4891DD85.9090006@alteeve.com> <20080731154522.GC9391@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4891FB99.9010509@dinamis.com> Message-ID: | From: CLIFFORD ILKAY | The shift to | Lenovo is a non-event because they were always made by Lenovo even when they | had the IBM logo on them. I always thought that too. But who actually makes notebooks is not easy to figure out. (Almost?) All notebooks are made by ODMs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_Design_Manufacturer Few people know this, but I'm sure many TLUGers do. For example, the largest is Quanta and they got visibility in the Linux world as the manufacturer of the OLPC. Often the same brand will be placed on products made by different ODMs. So the brand-name companies are not monogomous. I always thought that Lenovo was an ODM, but I'm not sure at this point. This article says that Lenovo uses Compal for (some?) mainstream notebooks, Wistron for X-series notebooks, and Pegatron for IdeaPads. http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20080730PD209.html How much engineering is done by the brand and how much is done by the ODM is not clear to me. (Since I just got an ThinkPad x61t, I'm rather interested in this. This is the first notebook that I've had that does "sleep" and "wakeup" under Linux since APM went out of style.) (The article suggests (but does not exactly say) that the ODM hasn't been selected for a product to be introduced in two months. I find that very hard to imagine.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 1 20:21:46 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:21:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux-friendly laptops In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4@mail.gmail.com> <4891D032.6000104@utoronto.ca> <4891DD85.9090006@alteeve.com> <20080731154522.GC9391@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4891FB99.9010509@dinamis.com> Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20080730PD209.html | (The article suggests (but does not exactly say) that the ODM hasn't | been selected for a product to be introduced in two months. I find | that very hard to imagine.) Oh well. That article is obsolete http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20080730PD209.html Lenovo chose Quanta, not listed in the earlier article. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 1 21:31:24 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:31:24 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly laptops In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0808011244g2e33a748sfd48c270c7d858c7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0808010608m7dd76e0o1b9e3def77c5f15b@mail.gmail.com> <20080801152548.GD9391@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0808011244g2e33a748sfd48c270c7d858c7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080801213124.GE9391@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 03:44:48PM -0400, Tyler Aviss wrote: > My understanding is that the current "fix" for these chips is to patch > the BIOS of affected machines to run the cooling fans on a more > constant basis to prevent overheating, so they're not really replacing > them in these cases. The ones that already broke they have to. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 2 10:16:44 2008 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 06:16:44 -0400 Subject: Format USB HD Message-ID: <7BEDCEE1A1E64971BB41E2C4A0AF58E5@JohnPC> I have a 120G USB harddrive that is formatted with a NTFS filesystem. To use this drive with a Linux OS in read/write mode, I need this to be converted to a FAT32 file system. Any suggestion how to do this? John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 2 12:12:59 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 08:12:59 -0400 Subject: Format USB HD In-Reply-To: <7BEDCEE1A1E64971BB41E2C4A0AF58E5@JohnPC> References: <7BEDCEE1A1E64971BB41E2C4A0AF58E5@JohnPC> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 6:16 AM, John Wildberger wrote: > I have a 120G USB harddrive that is formatted with a NTFS filesystem. To use > this drive with a Linux OS in read/write mode, I need this to be converted > to a FAT32 file system. > Any suggestion how to do this? The usual method would be: 1. Mount in NTFS mode; 2. Copy all the data off to some place where you have 120G of separate, writable storage 3. Unmount NTFS filesystem 4. Create FAT32 filesystem on the 120GB drive 5. Copy the data back from the place you preserved it You're not likely to find an "in place upgrade" mechanism; I'd be a bit surprised if Microsoft, maker of both of those filesystems, has one... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 2 12:33:07 2008 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 08:33:07 -0400 Subject: OT-DVD Philips DVP 59XX In-Reply-To: <20080801101304.GA1934@localhost> References: <48909B81.1000908@tmis.ca> <20080731003414.0c227744@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <4891BA11.8040503@totaltravelmarketing.com> <4891BBD0.7080603@tmis.ca> <20080801101304.GA1934@localhost> Message-ID: <48945403.8040804@tmis.ca> I did find a Philips DVP 5926? Anyways it had Xvid, Ultra Divx, and USB (not sure if 1.1 or 2.0) I tested a data CD made with Nero with one.AVI Xvid movie on it. The LCD was quite large (42" or 50") The picture quality was very good considering it was a 700mB .AVI /Xvid file. There were some very tiny red dots. Not sure if this was a bad video cable, the LCD, LCD was too large, the .AVI file itself. Or decompression of the Philips DVD. The picture is very watchable. I give it a 9 out of 10. /teddy Scott Allen wrote: > On Thu Jul 31,2008 09:19:12 AM Teddy wrote: >> 2) firmware upgradeable (not sure how a consumer DVD player is upgraded) > > Usually the manufacturer provides an ISO image that you burn to CD. > When you put the CD into the DVD player, it recognises that it > contains new firmware and prompts you to perform an upgrade. > > I've upgraded two different DVD players this way. > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 2 13:32:41 2008 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 09:32:41 -0400 Subject: ISP recommendations - Kitchener Message-ID: <200808020932.41888.glayng@sympatico.ca> I have a client in Kitchener who would like to move off Rogers, having been off-line for about a week now. Rogers promises a tech by the 6th to fix the problem. The problem: three commercial customers in a row are not able to get internet. This client is a charity with minimal IT support and a cash flow that they desperately need to direct as much as possible to the desperately needy, rather than the corporately greedy. They'd like to get something cheaper and more reliable than Rogers. It doesn't matter if it's cable or not, and mentioned Sympatico as a potential alternative (hey, they're not that sophisticated). Anybody know any good Kitchener-local ISP's we can talk to? -- there's no place like 127.0.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 2 16:32:05 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 12:32:05 -0400 Subject: Format USB HD In-Reply-To: <7BEDCEE1A1E64971BB41E2C4A0AF58E5@JohnPC> References: <7BEDCEE1A1E64971BB41E2C4A0AF58E5@JohnPC> Message-ID: <3a97ef0808020932r443bfccdi574d42aad2d479bf@mail.gmail.com> Through FUSE and other utilities, there are a bunch of ways you can write to NTFS drives in linux these days. You might want to consider those if you still have need of some of the NTFS functionality (files over 4GB for ISO's, etc). Have you tried ntfs-3G? On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 6:16 AM, John Wildberger wrote: > I have a 120G USB harddrive that is formatted with a NTFS filesystem. To use > this drive with a Linux OS in read/write mode, I need this to be converted > to a FAT32 file system. > Any suggestion how to do this? > > John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 2 17:07:15 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 13:07:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ISP recommendations - Kitchener In-Reply-To: <200808020932.41888.glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <200808020932.41888.glayng@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: | From: Gary Layng | I have a client in Kitchener who would like to move off Rogers, having been | off-line for about a week now. Rogers promises a tech by the 6th to fix the | problem. The problem: three commercial customers in a row are not able to | get internet. The 6th seems like an outrageous delay to me. Usually they escalate if more than one customer is affected. Although I have had Rogers lie to me about how many are affected (as an excuse not to expidite). There are only two obvious broadband paths into most houses (and small offices): cable and phone. Rogers controls almost all aspects of cable and Bell controls most aspects of the phone line. Even if you actually buy your service from a third party. This particular outage would surely have happened if they bought cable internet service from a third party (last I remember there was just one such ISP). In my limited experience, Rogers consumer broadband infrastructure is more reliable than Bell's. Neither's support department is any good. Third party ADSL is way more available than 3rd party cable internet. There are good third party ISPs. It is suspected that when Bell suport is needed, Bell might be more responsive for its own direct cusomers than for those of 3rd party ISPs. | This client is a charity with minimal IT support and a cash flow that they | desperately need to direct as much as possible to the desperately needy, | rather than the corporately greedy. They'd like to get something cheaper and | more reliable than Rogers. It doesn't matter if it's cable or not, and | mentioned Sympatico as a potential alternative (hey, they're not that | sophisticated). Most institutions keep important internet functions in co-lo or hosting site. Of course email needs to get to the actual office but in an emergency dial-up can fill in for broadband for that function. My 3rd party ADSL ISP offers me a few hours of dial-up service each month (I've never tried it). I don't know how common that is. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 2 18:40:59 2008 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 14:40:59 -0400 Subject: ISP recommendations - Kitchener In-Reply-To: <200808020932.41888.glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <200808020932.41888.glayng@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <5959A895-4733-4910-8999-7A36065F0E85@visibleassets.com> Check out Sentex Dave On 2-Aug-08, at 9:32 AM, Gary Layng wrote: > I have a client in Kitchener who would like to move off Rogers, > having been > off-line for about a week now. Rogers promises a tech by the 6th to > fix the > problem. The problem: three commercial customers in a row are not > able to > get internet. > > This client is a charity with minimal IT support and a cash flow > that they > desperately need to direct as much as possible to the desperately > needy, > rather than the corporately greedy. They'd like to get something > cheaper and > more reliable than Rogers. It doesn't matter if it's cable or not, > and > mentioned Sympatico as a potential alternative (hey, they're not that > sophisticated). > > Anybody know any good Kitchener-local ISP's we can talk to? > -- > there's no place like 127.0.0.1 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 2 20:07:28 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 16:07:28 -0400 Subject: Format USB HD In-Reply-To: <7BEDCEE1A1E64971BB41E2C4A0AF58E5@JohnPC> References: <7BEDCEE1A1E64971BB41E2C4A0AF58E5@JohnPC> Message-ID: <4894BE80.6050903@rogers.com> John Wildberger wrote: > I have a 120G USB harddrive that is formatted with a NTFS filesystem. > To use this drive with a Linux OS in read/write mode, I need this to > be converted to a FAT32 file system. > Any suggestion how to do this? > > John You'd use the same method you'd use for any hard drive. The details depend on the distro. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 2 20:31:59 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 16:31:59 -0400 Subject: Format USB HD In-Reply-To: <4894BE80.6050903-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <7BEDCEE1A1E64971BB41E2C4A0AF58E5@JohnPC> <4894BE80.6050903@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4894C43F.3030202@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > John Wildberger wrote: >> I have a 120G USB harddrive that is formatted with a NTFS filesystem. >> To use this drive with a Linux OS in read/write mode, I need this to >> be converted to a FAT32 file system. >> Any suggestion how to do this? >> >> John > You'd use the same method you'd use for any hard drive. The details > depend on the distro. The latest Ubuntu distribution supports NTFS Maybe John's distro does as well. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 2 22:34:28 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 01:34:28 +0300 Subject: Format USB HD In-Reply-To: <4894C43F.3030202-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <7BEDCEE1A1E64971BB41E2C4A0AF58E5@JohnPC> <4894BE80.6050903@rogers.com> <4894C43F.3030202@rogers.com> Message-ID: John, I wouldn?t advice formatting 120GB with FAT32. I went that way once and it worked alright with Linux, but had issue being seen by its native platform - Window. I hear there is a maximum limit Windows expect FAT to grow to. If you insist on going FAT, use a couple of partitions. That will work. Or just us ntfs-3g with your current disto. Regards, William 2008/8/2 Stephen : > James Knott wrote: >> >> John Wildberger wrote: >>> >>> I have a 120G USB harddrive that is formatted with a NTFS filesystem. To >>> use this drive with a Linux OS in read/write mode, I need this to be >>> converted to a FAT32 file system. >>> Any suggestion how to do this? >>> John >> >> You'd use the same method you'd use for any hard drive. The details >> depend on the distro. > > The latest Ubuntu distribution supports NTFS > > Maybe John's distro does as well. > > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 2 22:39:38 2008 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 18:39:38 -0400 Subject: Format USB HD In-Reply-To: References: <7BEDCEE1A1E64971BB41E2C4A0AF58E5@JohnPC> Message-ID: Thanks for the various suggestions. I tried to format within XP os, VISTA os and got the error message :" The volume is too big for FAF32" In Linux I do not know what the command for mounting in NTFS mode is, and also do not know the command for creating a FAT32 file system. I don't need to preserve the data I have on the drive, in fact, I prefere to have a complete clean empty formated drive. I don't like to go via the route of using an OS that supports the NTFS , because the USB drive can be connected to different computers and one might not have this capability. John ---- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Browne" To: Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 8:12 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Format USB HD > On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 6:16 AM, John Wildberger > wrote: >> I have a 120G USB harddrive that is formatted with a NTFS filesystem. To >> use >> this drive with a Linux OS in read/write mode, I need this to be >> converted >> to a FAT32 file system. >> Any suggestion how to do this? > > The usual method would be: > > 1. Mount in NTFS mode; > 2. Copy all the data off to some place where you have 120G of > separate, writable storage > 3. Unmount NTFS filesystem > 4. Create FAT32 filesystem on the 120GB drive > 5. Copy the data back from the place you preserved it > > You're not likely to find an "in place upgrade" mechanism; I'd be a > bit surprised if Microsoft, maker of both of those filesystems, has > one... > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and > expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert > Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 2 23:18:06 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 02:18:06 +0300 Subject: Format USB HD In-Reply-To: References: <7BEDCEE1A1E64971BB41E2C4A0AF58E5@JohnPC> Message-ID: John, Okay, it seems you really need FAT file system. Have its advantage I have to admit - portability. You can connect it to any DVD player with a USB connection and it works, unlike NTFS. It sucks though if you ever need to recover your data using tools like foremost. Anyway, this is how you go about creating a fat file system on Linux. (Assumes you want one large FAT partition mkfs.vfat /dev/sdX Where sdX is the hard disk you want formatted. Not, you will loose all data after that, so trend carefully. After that, reboot just to make sure things worked alright as you don?t want to start putting your data in a sick file system. Once it come up, mount it as follows: mount -t vfat /dev/sdx /mnt Through a couple of files on mnt directory to see what happen. Regards, William 2008/8/3 John Wildberger : > Thanks for the various suggestions. > > I tried to format within XP os, VISTA os and got the error message :" The > volume is too big for FAF32" > In Linux I do not know what the command for mounting in NTFS mode is, and > also do not know the command for creating a FAT32 file system. > I don't need to preserve the data I have on the drive, in fact, I prefere to > have a complete clean empty formated drive. I don't like to go via the route > of using an OS that supports the NTFS , because the USB drive can be > connected to different computers and one might not have this capability. > > John > > > ---- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Browne" > To: > Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 8:12 AM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Format USB HD > > >> On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 6:16 AM, John Wildberger >> wrote: >>> >>> I have a 120G USB harddrive that is formatted with a NTFS filesystem. To >>> use >>> this drive with a Linux OS in read/write mode, I need this to be >>> converted >>> to a FAT32 file system. >>> Any suggestion how to do this? >> >> The usual method would be: >> >> 1. Mount in NTFS mode; >> 2. Copy all the data off to some place where you have 120G of >> separate, writable storage >> 3. Unmount NTFS filesystem >> 4. Create FAT32 filesystem on the 120GB drive >> 5. Copy the data back from the place you preserved it >> >> You're not likely to find an "in place upgrade" mechanism; I'd be a >> bit surprised if Microsoft, maker of both of those filesystems, has >> one... >> -- >> http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html >> "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and >> expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert >> Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 2 23:19:24 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 02:19:24 +0300 Subject: Format USB HD In-Reply-To: References: <7BEDCEE1A1E64971BB41E2C4A0AF58E5@JohnPC> Message-ID: Correction on previous post. I meant throw not through William 2008/8/3 William Muriithi : > John, > > Okay, it seems you really need FAT file system. Have its advantage I > have to admit - portability. You can connect it to any DVD player with > a USB connection and it works, unlike NTFS. It sucks though if you > ever need to recover your data using tools like foremost. > > Anyway, this is how you go about creating a fat file system on Linux. > (Assumes you want one large FAT partition > > mkfs.vfat /dev/sdX > > Where sdX is the hard disk you want formatted. > > Not, you will loose all data after that, so trend carefully. > > After that, reboot just to make sure things worked alright as you > don?t want to start putting your data in a sick file system. Once it > come up, mount it as follows: > > mount -t vfat /dev/sdx /mnt > > Through a couple of files on mnt directory to see what happen. > Regards, > William > > 2008/8/3 John Wildberger : >> Thanks for the various suggestions. >> >> I tried to format within XP os, VISTA os and got the error message :" The >> volume is too big for FAF32" >> In Linux I do not know what the command for mounting in NTFS mode is, and >> also do not know the command for creating a FAT32 file system. >> I don't need to preserve the data I have on the drive, in fact, I prefere to >> have a complete clean empty formated drive. I don't like to go via the route >> of using an OS that supports the NTFS , because the USB drive can be >> connected to different computers and one might not have this capability. >> >> John >> >> >> ---- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Browne" >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 8:12 AM >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Format USB HD >> >> >>> On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 6:16 AM, John Wildberger >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I have a 120G USB harddrive that is formatted with a NTFS filesystem. To >>>> use >>>> this drive with a Linux OS in read/write mode, I need this to be >>>> converted >>>> to a FAT32 file system. >>>> Any suggestion how to do this? >>> >>> The usual method would be: >>> >>> 1. Mount in NTFS mode; >>> 2. Copy all the data off to some place where you have 120G of >>> separate, writable storage >>> 3. Unmount NTFS filesystem >>> 4. Create FAT32 filesystem on the 120GB drive >>> 5. Copy the data back from the place you preserved it >>> >>> You're not likely to find an "in place upgrade" mechanism; I'd be a >>> bit surprised if Microsoft, maker of both of those filesystems, has >>> one... >>> -- >>> http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html >>> "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and >>> expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert >>> Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 3 01:59:27 2008 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 21:59:27 -0400 Subject: Format USB HD In-Reply-To: References: <7BEDCEE1A1E64971BB41E2C4A0AF58E5@JohnPC> Message-ID: <8AD74DE59BB74464A72EAB3E8B3435A6@JohnPC> mkfs.vfat is equivalent to mkdosfs. I belief that this does not create a fat32 file system. The mount command "mount -t ntfs /dev/sda /mnt" gives the error message "wrong fs". It would also help if I could partition the USB drive into two partition. Partition Magic does not recognise USB drives, and partition software in Linux needs the drive to be mounted. Not having succeeded to have the drive mounted, I cannot find out if this would work. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Muriithi" To: Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Format USB HD 2008/8/3 William Muriithi : > John, > > Okay, it seems you really need FAT file system. Have its advantage I > have to admit - portability. You can connect it to any DVD player with > a USB connection and it works, unlike NTFS. It sucks though if you > ever need to recover your data using tools like foremost. > > Anyway, this is how you go about creating a fat file system on Linux. > (Assumes you want one large FAT partition > > mkfs.vfat /dev/sdX > > Where sdX is the hard disk you want formatted. > > Not, you will loose all data after that, so trend carefully. > > After that, reboot just to make sure things worked alright as you > don?t want to start putting your data in a sick file system. Once it > come up, mount it as follows: > > mount -t vfat /dev/sdx /mnt > > Through a couple of files on mnt directory to see what happen. > Regards, > William > > 2008/8/3 John Wildberger : >> Thanks for the various suggestions. >> >> I tried to format within XP os, VISTA os and got the error message :" The >> volume is too big for FAF32" >> In Linux I do not know what the command for mounting in NTFS mode is, and >> also do not know the command for creating a FAT32 file system. >> I don't need to preserve the data I have on the drive, in fact, I prefere >> to >> have a complete clean empty formated drive. I don't like to go via the >> route >> of using an OS that supports the NTFS , because the USB drive can be >> connected to different computers and one might not have this capability. >> >> John >> >> -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 3 02:34:54 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 05:34:54 +0300 Subject: Format USB HD In-Reply-To: <8AD74DE59BB74464A72EAB3E8B3435A6@JohnPC> References: <7BEDCEE1A1E64971BB41E2C4A0AF58E5@JohnPC> <8AD74DE59BB74464A72EAB3E8B3435A6@JohnPC> Message-ID: John, > mkfs.vfat is equivalent to mkdosfs. I belief that this does not create a > fat32 file system. I stand to be corrected, but I am reasonable sure that commands create a FAT file system. I will look at it again to make sure > The mount command > "mount -t ntfs /dev/sda /mnt" > gives the error message "wrong fs". Correct, you are mounting FAT as ntfs. > > It would also help if I could partition the USB drive into two partition. > Partition Magic does not recognise USB drives, and partition software in > Linux needs the drive to be mounted. Not having succeeded to have the drive > mounted, I cannot find out if this would work. No, Linux don?t need a drive mounted for partitioning. Just fire fdisk and point it to the drive. It should them guide you using the m key, I believe. Ehh, it need to be seen by the kernel though, or in another work, you need to see it on the dev directory William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 3 12:13:57 2008 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 08:13:57 -0400 Subject: Format USB HD In-Reply-To: References: <7BEDCEE1A1E64971BB41E2C4A0AF58E5@JohnPC> <8AD74DE59BB74464A72EAB3E8B3435A6@JohnPC> Message-ID: <00D6EED899DB486BA474CED849330D53@JohnPC> William, Thanks for your effort. I tried all the various suggestions, but no success. With fdisk I can create a partition table that seemingly split my 120G USB drive into two FAT32 partitions. On closer examination it has only changed the ID but leaves the disk without any formatting. The problem of creating a FAT32 filesystem on this drive is still unresolved. I have to go back to my XP OS to recreate a NTFS filesystem and try to live with this until someone can show me a way to create a FAT32 file system. It also seems that the whole "mounting" technology is still stuck in the timeframe of the last century where DOS ruled with supremacy. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Muriithi" To: Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Format USB HD John, > mkfs.vfat is equivalent to mkdosfs. I belief that this does not create a > fat32 file system. I stand to be corrected, but I am reasonable sure that commands create a FAT file system. I will look at it again to make sure > The mount command > "mount -t ntfs /dev/sda /mnt" > gives the error message "wrong fs". Correct, you are mounting FAT as ntfs. > > It would also help if I could partition the USB drive into two partition. > Partition Magic does not recognise USB drives, and partition software in > Linux needs the drive to be mounted. Not having succeeded to have the > drive > mounted, I cannot find out if this would work. No, Linux don?t need a drive mounted for partitioning. Just fire fdisk and point it to the drive. It should them guide you using the m key, I believe. Ehh, it need to be seen by the kernel though, or in another work, you need to see it on the dev directory William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 3 13:22:41 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 09:22:41 -0400 Subject: Format USB HD In-Reply-To: <00D6EED899DB486BA474CED849330D53@JohnPC> References: <7BEDCEE1A1E64971BB41E2C4A0AF58E5@JohnPC> <8AD74DE59BB74464A72EAB3E8B3435A6@JohnPC> <00D6EED899DB486BA474CED849330D53@JohnPC> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 8:13 AM, John Wildberger wrote: > William, > Thanks for your effort. I tried all the various suggestions, but no success. > With fdisk I can create a partition table that seemingly split my 120G USB > drive into two FAT32 partitions. On closer examination it has only changed > the ID but leaves the disk without any formatting. That's correct; fdisk does *one thing*, namely controlling partitions. It does not establish the data format of the filesystems on those partitions. > The problem of creating a FAT32 filesystem on this drive is still > unresolved. You use mkfs.vfat to do that. Here's an online manual page for it... http://linux.die.net/man/8/mkfs.vfat Note that you'd run it with "-F 32" to indicate creation of a FAT32 filesystem. Look for /sbin/mkfs.vfat > It also seems that the whole "mounting" technology is still stuck in the > timeframe of the last century where DOS ruled with supremacy. I'd go along with the notion that *partitioning* is still stuck there; the way we "slice" disks into partitions is generally still based on the MS-DOS partitioning scheme (e.g. - 4 primary partitions, with possible more logical partitions inside some of those). (Aside: Note that the BSD guys tend to use a different way of handling partitions where they split disks into what are actually called "slices," which give them a bit more flexibility than the DOS model offers. Not that this fundamentally matters if you only have a couple of partitions...) Of course, the way "mount" works dates back pretty much to the 1970s, and it's not evident to me that the nature of the problems have changed so much that there's anything broken about that. Arguably, it might be nice to have a mount command that is a bit more intelligent about detecting filesystem types, though the need for that is really an artifact of things like getting forced to use a Windows-compatible format. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 3 13:26:57 2008 From: echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin) Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 09:26:57 -0400 Subject: ISP recommendations - Kitchener In-Reply-To: <200808020932.41888.glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <200808020932.41888.glayng@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4895B221.5070909@teksavvy.com> Check out Teksavvy. Gary Layng wrote: > I have a client in Kitchener who would like to move off Rogers, having been > off-line for about a week now. Rogers promises a tech by the 6th to fix the > problem. The problem: three commercial customers in a row are not able to > get internet. > > This client is a charity with minimal IT support and a cash flow that they > desperately need to direct as much as possible to the desperately needy, > rather than the corporately greedy. They'd like to get something cheaper and > more reliable than Rogers. It doesn't matter if it's cable or not, and > mentioned Sympatico as a potential alternative (hey, they're not that > sophisticated). > > Anybody know any good Kitchener-local ISP's we can talk to? -- http://clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 3 14:00:11 2008 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 10:00:11 -0400 Subject: dsl outage? Message-ID: <20080803140011.GA26143@watson-wilson.ca> Did anyone else suffer a dsl outage starting around 10am on Saturday until around 4am Sunday? -- Neil Watson System Administrator for hire http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 3 15:34:48 2008 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:34:48 -0400 Subject: ISP recommendations - Kitchener In-Reply-To: <200808020932.41888.glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <200808020932.41888.glayng@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4895D018.3000801@golden.net> Gary Layng wrote: > I have a client in Kitchener who would like to move off Rogers, having been > off-line for about a week now. Rogers promises a tech by the 6th to fix the > problem. The problem: three commercial customers in a row are not able to > get internet. > > This client is a charity with minimal IT support and a cash flow that they > desperately need to direct as much as possible to the desperately needy, > rather than the corporately greedy. They'd like to get something cheaper and > more reliable than Rogers. It doesn't matter if it's cable or not, and > mentioned Sympatico as a potential alternative (hey, they're not that > sophisticated). > > Anybody know any good Kitchener-local ISP's we can talk to? > I have been using Golden.net for 8 years and their it when needed has been pretty good. Golden was bought out by Execulink 2 years ago. They allow you to own your own modem as well. My current cost per month is $32.00 for high speed. They are local to that area. http://www.execulink.ca/index.php What's the charity ? John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 3 15:36:57 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 11:36:57 -0400 Subject: ISP recommendations - Kitchener In-Reply-To: <4895B221.5070909-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200808020932.41888.glayng@sympatico.ca> <4895B221.5070909@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0808030836r49ed2f0du6bb701b5c2004006@mail.gmail.com> Agreed. I don't know about in Kitchener but in Toronto the only limitations to Teksavvy's support seem to be the use of Bell's lines (which is a limitation of pretty much any ADSL ISP where Bell lines are shared). If it's an issue TS can deal with, they're pretty quick and knowledgeable. On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Elliott Chapin wrote: > Check out Teksavvy. > > Gary Layng wrote: >> >> I have a client in Kitchener who would like to move off Rogers, having >> been off-line for about a week now. Rogers promises a tech by the 6th to >> fix the problem. The problem: three commercial customers in a row are not >> able to get internet. >> >> This client is a charity with minimal IT support and a cash flow that they >> desperately need to direct as much as possible to the desperately needy, >> rather than the corporately greedy. They'd like to get something cheaper >> and more reliable than Rogers. It doesn't matter if it's cable or not, and >> mentioned Sympatico as a potential alternative (hey, they're not that >> sophisticated). >> >> Anybody know any good Kitchener-local ISP's we can talk to? > > -- > > http://clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 3 16:53:25 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 12:53:25 -0400 Subject: dsl outage? In-Reply-To: <20080803140011.GA26143-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20080803140011.GA26143@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <4895E285.2020705@alteeve.com> Neil Watson wrote: > Did anyone else suffer a dsl outage starting around 10am on Saturday > until around 4am Sunday? > Ya, no idea why. Seemed pretty random, too. Some sites were more responsive then others, but nothing worked well. What ISP are you on, Sympatico? I was wondering if they were messing with their deep packet analysis machine as we noted occasional throttling as well (that would last about ten minutes or so). Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 3 17:00:05 2008 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 13:00:05 -0400 Subject: dsl outage? In-Reply-To: <4895E285.2020705-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080803140011.GA26143@watson-wilson.ca> <4895E285.2020705@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20080803170005.GA32465@watson-wilson.ca> On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 12:53:25PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Ya, no idea why. Seemed pretty random, too. Some sites were more > responsive then others, but nothing worked well. What ISP are you on, > Sympatico? I am with Primus. My connection was completely down. -- Neil Watson System Administrator for hire http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 3 17:18:06 2008 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 13:18:06 -0400 Subject: dsl outage? In-Reply-To: <20080803170005.GA32465-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20080803140011.GA26143@watson-wilson.ca> <4895E285.2020705@alteeve.com> <20080803170005.GA32465@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <9ACBCC60-0DB7-47F9-BB53-F98A54739A66@visibleassets.com> Well, ultimately all DSL is from bell, so they are all connected. --dc-- On 3-Aug-08, at 1:00 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 12:53:25PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Ya, no idea why. Seemed pretty random, too. Some sites were more >> responsive then others, but nothing worked well. What ISP are you >> on, Sympatico? > > I am with Primus. My connection was completely down. > > -- > Neil Watson > System Administrator for hire http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 3 17:36:36 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 13:36:36 -0400 Subject: dsl outage? In-Reply-To: <9ACBCC60-0DB7-47F9-BB53-F98A54739A66-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <20080803140011.GA26143@watson-wilson.ca> <4895E285.2020705@alteeve.com> <20080803170005.GA32465@watson-wilson.ca> <9ACBCC60-0DB7-47F9-BB53-F98A54739A66@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <4895ECA4.3040404@alteeve.com> Dave Cramer wrote: > Well, ultimately all DSL is from bell, so they are all connected. > > --dc-- > On 3-Aug-08, at 1:00 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > >> On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 12:53:25PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >>> Ya, no idea why. Seemed pretty random, too. Some sites were more >>> responsive then others, but nothing worked well. What ISP are you >>> on, Sympatico? >> >> I am with Primus. My connection was completely down. Indeed, they all go through Bell's concentrator and deep packet analysis machine. Given that Neil's connection is through Primus, and I am going through Interlink (another reseller), it does seem to indicate an issue with Bell. During the problem, I checked my sync rate and it was fine, so the problem wasn't the last mile. Also, I run my own, patched DNS servers, so I don't think it was a DNS issue directly unless it was somewhat upstream. Given that some sites were better than others and the throttling coming and going, I worry that they were playing with restricting access to specific sites. I found serious trouble accessing some high-bandwidth sites like deviantart.com. Madi, who admits to being paranoid about bell's view of net neutrality. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 3 18:06:09 2008 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 14:06:09 -0400 Subject: Format USB HD In-Reply-To: References: <7BEDCEE1A1E64971BB41E2C4A0AF58E5@JohnPC> <8AD74DE59BB74464A72EAB3E8B3435A6@JohnPC> <00D6EED899DB486BA474CED849330D53@JohnPC> Message-ID: Christopher, Since my last post I did a bit more experimenting and also a little bit of reading. As it stands now I succeeded in splitting my 120G USB Drive into two partitions. One with 90G that I formatted with NTFS, and a second one with 30G that I formatted as FAT32. It appears that Windows cannot accept any FAT32 with more than 32G This worked out quite well, and so I did not follow your instruction with the "-F 32" option. But I wonder if it would have overcome the 32G limitation. It is too late for me to try this, because now that I have a working system I am loath to start over again just to prove a point. Thanks for your help, John -----Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Browne" To: Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Format USB HD > On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 8:13 AM, John Wildberger > wrote: >> William, >> Thanks for your effort. I tried all the various suggestions, but no >> success. >> With fdisk I can create a partition table that seemingly split my 120G >> USB >> drive into two FAT32 partitions. On closer examination it has only >> changed >> the ID but leaves the disk without any formatting. > > That's correct; fdisk does *one thing*, namely controlling partitions. > It does not establish the data format of the filesystems on those > partitions. > >> The problem of creating a FAT32 filesystem on this drive is still >> unresolved. > > You use mkfs.vfat to do that. > > Here's an online manual page for it... > http://linux.die.net/man/8/mkfs.vfat > > Note that you'd run it with "-F 32" to indicate creation of a FAT32 > filesystem. > > Look for /sbin/mkfs.vfat > >> It also seems that the whole "mounting" technology is still stuck in the >> timeframe of the last century where DOS ruled with supremacy. > > I'd go along with the notion that *partitioning* is still stuck there; > the way we "slice" disks into partitions is generally still based on > the MS-DOS partitioning scheme (e.g. - 4 primary partitions, with > possible more logical partitions inside some of those). (Aside: Note > that the BSD guys tend to use a different way of handling partitions > where they split disks into what are actually called "slices," which > give them a bit more flexibility than the DOS model offers. Not that > this fundamentally matters if you only have a couple of partitions...) > > Of course, the way "mount" works dates back pretty much to the 1970s, > and it's not evident to me that the nature of the problems have > changed so much that there's anything broken about that. > > Arguably, it might be nice to have a mount command that is a bit more > intelligent about detecting filesystem types, though the need for that > is really an artifact of things like getting forced to use a > Windows-compatible format. > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and > expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert > Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 3 18:51:54 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:51:54 -0400 Subject: dsl outage? In-Reply-To: <4895ECA4.3040404-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080803140011.GA26143@watson-wilson.ca> <4895E285.2020705@alteeve.com> <20080803170005.GA32465@watson-wilson.ca> <9ACBCC60-0DB7-47F9-BB53-F98A54739A66@visibleassets.com> <4895ECA4.3040404@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4895FE4A.3040507@utoronto.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Dave Cramer wrote: >> Well, ultimately all DSL is from bell, so they are all connected. >> >> --dc-- >> On 3-Aug-08, at 1:00 PM, Neil Watson wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 12:53:25PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >>>> Ya, no idea why. Seemed pretty random, too. Some sites were more >>>> responsive then others, but nothing worked well. What ISP are you >>>> on, Sympatico? >>> >>> I am with Primus. My connection was completely down. > > Indeed, they all go through Bell's concentrator and deep packet analysis > machine. Given that Neil's connection is through Primus, and I am going > through Interlink (another reseller), it does seem to indicate an issue > with Bell. > > During the problem, I checked my sync rate and it was fine, so the > problem wasn't the last mile. Also, I run my own, patched DNS servers, > so I don't think it was a DNS issue directly unless it was somewhat > upstream. > > Given that some sites were better than others and the throttling coming > and going, I worry that they were playing with restricting access to > specific sites. I found serious trouble accessing some high-bandwidth > sites like deviantart.com. > > Madi, who admits to being paranoid about bell's view of net neutrality. Primus have their own DSLAMs in some locations. There was a thread on dslreports about users wanting teksavvy to rent ports on primus' equipment: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20280388-TSI-using-Primus-DSLAMS Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 3 21:18:36 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 17:18:36 -0400 Subject: dsl outage? In-Reply-To: <4895ECA4.3040404-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080803140011.GA26143@watson-wilson.ca> <4895E285.2020705@alteeve.com> <20080803170005.GA32465@watson-wilson.ca> <9ACBCC60-0DB7-47F9-BB53-F98A54739A66@visibleassets.com> <4895ECA4.3040404@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20080803171836.63191e9f@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Madison Kelly wrote: > Dave Cramer wrote: > > Well, ultimately all DSL is from bell, so they are all connected. > > > > --dc-- > > On 3-Aug-08, at 1:00 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > > > >> On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 12:53:25PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > >>> Ya, no idea why. Seemed pretty random, too. Some sites were more > >>> responsive then others, but nothing worked well. What ISP are you > >>> on, Sympatico? > >> > >> I am with Primus. My connection was completely down. > > Indeed, they all go through Bell's concentrator and deep packet analysis > machine. Given that Neil's connection is through Primus, and I am going > through Interlink (another reseller), it does seem to indicate an issue > with Bell. > > During the problem, I checked my sync rate and it was fine, so the > problem wasn't the last mile. Also, I run my own, patched DNS servers, > so I don't think it was a DNS issue directly unless it was somewhat > upstream. > > Given that some sites were better than others and the throttling coming > and going, I worry that they were playing with restricting access to > specific sites. I found serious trouble accessing some high-bandwidth > sites like deviantart.com. > > Madi, who admits to being paranoid about bell's view of net neutrality. It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you: http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/07/31/tech-bell.html Now they won't just be throttling P2P traffic on competitor's (heh) networks, they'll be limiting bandwidth across the board, _and_ they're lobbying to have the independants shut out of Bell CO's altogether because, in Bell's view, there's 'enough' competition and we don't need any more. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: Oh... your... God. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 3 21:48:47 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 17:48:47 -0400 Subject: dsl outage? In-Reply-To: <20080803171836.63191e9f-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20080803140011.GA26143@watson-wilson.ca> <4895E285.2020705@alteeve.com> <20080803170005.GA32465@watson-wilson.ca> <9ACBCC60-0DB7-47F9-BB53-F98A54739A66@visibleassets.com> <4895ECA4.3040404@alteeve.com> <20080803171836.63191e9f@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <489627BF.7060507@rogers.com> JoeHill wrote: > It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you: > > http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/07/31/tech-bell.html > > Now they won't just be throttling P2P traffic on competitor's (heh) networks, > they'll be limiting bandwidth across the board, _and_ they're lobbying to have > the independants shut out of Bell CO's altogether because, in Bell's view, > there's 'enough' competition and we don't need any more. > > Of course it depends on where they connect to Bell. Some, such as Rogers, have their own DSLAMs located in the Bell office and are provisioned with DS3 connections for the internet side of the system (& T1s for the voice). If that DS3 goes right back to Rogers or other, then there's nothing Bell can do, beyond causing problems on the subscriber cable pairs. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 16:33:07 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 12:33:07 -0400 Subject: [OT]: Cdn hosting for (extremely) high-load web sites? Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808040933p271ec1datd964b35d90bb05ff@mail.gmail.com> Over the last few days an opportunity has been offered to me that I'd really like to jump on. There are some hefty requirements that I'm not used to having to deal with and would like to ask for help from experienced community members when I get stuck. This is likely the first in a series of questions (I'll keep it to a minimum) over the next month or two. When we're ready to go live, I'll post the link[1]. My first question involves hosting providers. The project is high-impact and will likely draw in extremely large numbers of one-time and repeat users. (That's the purpose - we want to hit 100,000,000+ interactions before the end of the year.) Can anyone recommend a hosting company that provides high-end dedicated servers at a decent price? I resell hosting as part of my business operations, but the servers are located in Texas and the best solution[1] my provider has will run me about $500 month. I'd like to know if there's a better deal out there, preferably Canadian. I might also be looking for more direct help in various IS&T related problems, in which case I'd like to know in advance if anyone minds my posting problem descriptions and skill requirements here. TIA, - Scott [1] Spoiler - I was planning a blog and writing the first post (a step-by-step guide to building the pre-cursor to Atomic OS and WAJAX) when this opportunity came up. I haven't decided whether I'm in or out just yet but either way I'll cover this projects story on "The Hackers Itch" at http://psema4.com/blog/ [2] Quad-Core 3210 Xeon, 2x250gb SATA II with automated daily backups, 4GB RAM, 2,500GB of bandwidth, and all the open source you can ask for. Well almost anyway. ;-) -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 10:46:20 2008 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 06:46:20 -0400 Subject: [OT]: Cdn hosting for (extremely) high-load web sites? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0808040933p271ec1datd964b35d90bb05ff-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0808040933p271ec1datd964b35d90bb05ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Scott, I've been a customer of pair Networks for half a dozen years now, and can highly recommend them. FWIW, they're in Pittsburgh, PA -- they have dedicated servers that seem to be pretty darn beefy. For the amount of traffic you're talking about, check out their Dedicated Servers: http://www.pair.com/services/dedicated/ The beefiest of these (the QS-5) is specced as follows: - Our highest tier dedicated server - FreeBSD 6.2 Operating System - Core 2 Quad Q6600 (2.4Ghz) CPU - 1066MHz Front Side Bus - 8 GB DDR2 667 ECC RAM - 750GB Hard Drive - 750GB ShadowDrive(R) Included - 5,000GB/month traffic - GigE NIC (Network Interface Card) - Daily back-ups - Server monitored 24/7/365 - Fully supported managed service That costs $999/month, and you can also get two of those, load-balanced, for $1,599/month (that's the QS-6). And you can take a walk through their data center, starting here .. http://www.pair.com/about/data_center_tour/ Looking forward to seeing what's behind door number 3. .. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 13:41:48 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 09:41:48 -0400 Subject: Format USB HD In-Reply-To: References: <7BEDCEE1A1E64971BB41E2C4A0AF58E5@JohnPC> <8AD74DE59BB74464A72EAB3E8B3435A6@JohnPC> <00D6EED899DB486BA474CED849330D53@JohnPC> Message-ID: <3a97ef0808050641m6268c404nb8097da38b510729@mail.gmail.com> "It appears that Windows cannot accept any FAT32 with more than 32G" I've got a USB drive divided up with a 120GB FAT32 partition and a 200GB XFS partition. Both windows and 'nix have no problem with the FAT32 partition. Windows can use large FAT32 partitions (I wouldn't recommend really big ones though, FAT32 doesn't perform well on superhuge partitions), but it can't format them. I find this article in particular interesting (win2k, but the same limits apply to XP): http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=184006 "Windows 2000 FastFAT driver can mount and support volumes larger than 32 GB that use the FAT32 file system (subject to the other limits), but you cannot create one using the Format tool. This behavior is by design. If you need to create a volume larger than 32 GB, use the NTFS file system instead." In other words, big FAT32 partitions work fine, but we'll not let you make them so that you'll be forced to use NTFS (which at the time was less "friendly" to other OS's... hmmmm). Onward to NTFS... As mentioned earlier, ntfs-3g is the best way to go. I think it may request FUSE (Filesystem in Userspace) support so hopefully your kernel has that. Useful packages (in my case on Debian/Ubuntu) are: * ntfs-3g (mount rw NTFS partitions) http://www.ntfs-3g.org/ * ntfsprogs (format, check/repair, etc for NTFS partitions, also has a mount utility via FUSE but ntfs-3g is a bit better here) http://www.linux-ntfs.org/doku.php?id=downloads Hopefully I'm not going over what's already been said. I haven't had time to do more than skim the previous posts. - Tyler On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 2:06 PM, John Wildberger wrote: > Christopher, > > Since my last post I did a bit more experimenting and also a little bit of > reading. As it stands now I succeeded in splitting my 120G USB Drive into > two partitions. One with 90G that I formatted with NTFS, and a second one > with 30G that I formatted as FAT32. > It appears that Windows cannot accept any FAT32 with more than 32G > This worked out quite well, and so I did not follow your instruction with > the "-F 32" option. But I wonder if it would have overcome the 32G > limitation. It is too late for me to try this, because now that I have a > working system I am loath to start over again just to prove a point. > Thanks for your help, > > John > > > -----Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Browne" > To: > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 9:22 AM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Format USB HD > > >> On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 8:13 AM, John Wildberger >> wrote: >>> >>> William, >>> Thanks for your effort. I tried all the various suggestions, but no >>> success. >>> With fdisk I can create a partition table that seemingly split my 120G >>> USB >>> drive into two FAT32 partitions. On closer examination it has only >>> changed >>> the ID but leaves the disk without any formatting. >> >> That's correct; fdisk does *one thing*, namely controlling partitions. >> It does not establish the data format of the filesystems on those >> partitions. >> >>> The problem of creating a FAT32 filesystem on this drive is still >>> unresolved. >> >> You use mkfs.vfat to do that. >> >> Here's an online manual page for it... >> http://linux.die.net/man/8/mkfs.vfat >> >> Note that you'd run it with "-F 32" to indicate creation of a FAT32 >> filesystem. >> >> Look for /sbin/mkfs.vfat >> >>> It also seems that the whole "mounting" technology is still stuck in the >>> timeframe of the last century where DOS ruled with supremacy. >> >> I'd go along with the notion that *partitioning* is still stuck there; >> the way we "slice" disks into partitions is generally still based on >> the MS-DOS partitioning scheme (e.g. - 4 primary partitions, with >> possible more logical partitions inside some of those). (Aside: Note >> that the BSD guys tend to use a different way of handling partitions >> where they split disks into what are actually called "slices," which >> give them a bit more flexibility than the DOS model offers. Not that >> this fundamentally matters if you only have a couple of partitions...) >> >> Of course, the way "mount" works dates back pretty much to the 1970s, >> and it's not evident to me that the nature of the problems have >> changed so much that there's anything broken about that. >> >> Arguably, it might be nice to have a mount command that is a bit more >> intelligent about detecting filesystem types, though the need for that >> is really an artifact of things like getting forced to use a >> Windows-compatible format. >> -- >> http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html >> "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and >> expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert >> Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 14:40:35 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 10:40:35 -0400 Subject: Format USB HD In-Reply-To: References: <7BEDCEE1A1E64971BB41E2C4A0AF58E5@JohnPC> <8AD74DE59BB74464A72EAB3E8B3435A6@JohnPC> <00D6EED899DB486BA474CED849330D53@JohnPC> Message-ID: <20080805144035.GF9391@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 02:06:09PM -0400, John Wildberger wrote: > Since my last post I did a bit more experimenting and also a little bit of > reading. As it stands now I succeeded in splitting my 120G USB Drive into > two partitions. One with 90G that I formatted with NTFS, and a second one > with 30G that I formatted as FAT32. > It appears that Windows cannot accept any FAT32 with more than 32G > This worked out quite well, and so I did not follow your instruction with > the "-F 32" option. But I wonder if it would have overcome the 32G > limitation. It is too late for me to try this, because now that I have a > working system I am loath to start over again just to prove a point. > Thanks for your help, Actually windows CAN use FAT32 larger than 30GB. It just won't create one. Just thank Microsoft for knowing better than you what you want. You can make a large FAT32 filesystem using linux and windows will happily use it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 15:59:28 2008 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 11:59:28 -0400 Subject: Social networking Message-ID: <489878E0.9060002@alteeve.com> Anyone here use/ have good experience with an ensy to set-up 'Social Networking' site? Never played with one myself. Not really sure what one should have.... Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 15:59:43 2008 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 11:59:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Perl Phrasebook Tech Reviewers Message-ID: I'm looking for people to help in the techincal review of my new book, the "Perl Phrasebook". This would involve checking the statements in the book, making sure topics are adequately covered and testing the example code. My previous reviewer canceled because he doesn't have the time. If you have experience at Perl, and you have enough free time, please email me. The publisher is willing to pay a small amount for your assistance. Thanks, Ken B. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From unforgiven24-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 16:05:56 2008 From: unforgiven24-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Ward) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:05:56 -0400 Subject: Social networking In-Reply-To: <489878E0.9060002-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <489878E0.9060002@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <5aa434200808050905t193aff1dga07f5d30034f68a5@mail.gmail.com> Something to consider might be what the aim of your site is, and where the emphasis is - is it really just very much a general "add friends and have a profile" type thing, or is it very important that they can have a good photo gallery, too? Do you care if users can share video and uploaded media or not? Other than that, I've never really heard of much in the way of open source social networking CMSs or whatnot. A quick google search turned up these, though, maybe they'll be of some use: http://www.vivalogo.com/vl-resources/open-source-social-networking-software.htm http://www.smashingapps.com/2008/03/26/lets-take-a-look-on-some-of-the-great-free-and-open-source-communitynetworking-website-softwares.html - Mike On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Lance F. Squire wrote: > Anyone here use/ have good experience with an ensy to set-up 'Social > Networking' site? > > Never played with one myself. Not really sure what one should have.... > > Lance > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 16:10:49 2008 From: spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (R.T.) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:10:49 -0400 Subject: Social networking In-Reply-To: <489878E0.9060002-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <489878E0.9060002@alteeve.com> Message-ID: You have internet access in the year 2008, and you have NEVER encountered Facebook, Myspace, Friendster, Orkut, Bebo, Classmates, Epinions, LinkedIn, etc.? I'd recommend playing with those before attempting to implement one yourself, since it's pretty much guaranteed to fail. On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Lance F. Squire wrote: > Anyone here use/ have good experience with an ensy to set-up 'Social > Networking' site? > > Never played with one myself. Not really sure what one should have.... > > Lance > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 16:15:27 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:15:27 -0400 Subject: Social networking In-Reply-To: References: <489878E0.9060002@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20080805161527.GG9391@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 05, 2008 at 12:10:49PM -0400, R.T. wrote: > You have internet access in the year 2008, and you have NEVER > encountered Facebook, Myspace, Friendster, Orkut, Bebo, Classmates, > Epinions, LinkedIn, etc.? > > I'd recommend playing with those before attempting to implement one > yourself, since it's pretty much guaranteed to fail. Hmm, I use facebook, I have heard of myspace (although have no idea what it looks like), never heard of friendster, orkut, bebo, epinions, have heard of linkedin but never looked at it, and have tried to use classmates and declared it useless without paying them money which I see no reason to do. I could see how someone could have happily avoided all of them, given I have certainly avoided at least half that list. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From unforgiven24-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 16:33:48 2008 From: unforgiven24-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Ward) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:33:48 -0400 Subject: Social networking In-Reply-To: References: <489878E0.9060002@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <5aa434200808050933x3b7ca5fcv9586783e831a127c@mail.gmail.com> About it failing - that's entirely true if he's planning on just tossing up yet another site on the internet for general consumption, but I don't think it's so true if he's planning on using this for a specific group. I've seen a small locally-run website for a smallish suburb run their own youtube-ish site, and while they'll never have ten thousand users, that wasn't their goal, either. They use it to share city council meetings, city event videos, that sort of thing. In terms of that, it's a success. On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:10 PM, R. T. wrote: > You have internet access in the year 2008, and you have NEVER > encountered Facebook, Myspace, Friendster, Orkut, Bebo, Classmates, > Epinions, LinkedIn, etc.? > > I'd recommend playing with those before attempting to implement one > yourself, since it's pretty much guaranteed to fail. > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Lance F. Squire > wrote: > > Anyone here use/ have good experience with an ensy to set-up 'Social > > Networking' site? > > > > Never played with one myself. Not really sure what one should have.... > > > > Lance > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 16:54:19 2008 From: spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (R.T.) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:54:19 -0400 Subject: Social networking In-Reply-To: <5aa434200808050933x3b7ca5fcv9586783e831a127c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <489878E0.9060002@alteeve.com> <5aa434200808050933x3b7ca5fcv9586783e831a127c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: In that case, I still wouldn't recommend rebuilding the wheel. Leverage the existing tech, that's what it's there for: http://developers.facebook.com/ http://developer.myspace.com/community/ http://code.google.com/apis/youtube/overview.html http://code.google.com/apis/opensocial/ http://openid.net/ Unless your name is "Google" or "Facebook", it's going to be next to impossible to show people value in *yet another account* for *yet another walled garden*. On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Mike Ward wrote: > About it failing - that's entirely true if he's planning on just tossing up > yet another site on the internet for general consumption, but I don't think > it's so true if he's planning on using this for a specific group. I've seen > a small locally-run website for a smallish suburb run their own youtube-ish > site, and while they'll never have ten thousand users, that wasn't their > goal, either. They use it to share city council meetings, city event videos, > that sort of thing. In terms of that, it's a success. > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:10 PM, R. T. wrote: >> >> You have internet access in the year 2008, and you have NEVER >> encountered Facebook, Myspace, Friendster, Orkut, Bebo, Classmates, >> Epinions, LinkedIn, etc.? >> >> I'd recommend playing with those before attempting to implement one >> yourself, since it's pretty much guaranteed to fail. >> >> On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Lance F. Squire >> wrote: >> > Anyone here use/ have good experience with an ensy to set-up 'Social >> > Networking' site? >> > >> > Never played with one myself. Not really sure what one should have.... >> > >> > Lance >> > -- >> > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 16:59:12 2008 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:59:12 -0400 Subject: Social networking In-Reply-To: References: <489878E0.9060002@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <489886E0.9040101@alteeve.com> R.T. wrote: > You have internet access in the year 2008, and you have NEVER > encountered Facebook, Myspace, Friendster, Orkut, Bebo, Classmates, > Epinions, LinkedIn, etc.? > Never been to any of those. Don't know why I would. The boss asked me to find one... Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 17:02:09 2008 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:02:09 -0400 Subject: Social networking In-Reply-To: <5aa434200808050933x3b7ca5fcv9586783e831a127c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <489878E0.9060002@alteeve.com> <5aa434200808050933x3b7ca5fcv9586783e831a127c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48988791.5090002@alteeve.com> Mike Ward wrote: > About it failing - that's entirely true if he's planning on just tossing > up yet another site on the internet for general consumption, but I don't > think it's so true if he's planning on using this for a specific group. > I've seen a small locally-run website for a smallish suburb run their > own youtube-ish site, and while they'll never have ten thousand users, > that wasn't their goal, either. They use it to share city council > meetings, city event videos, that sort of thing. In terms of that, it's > a success. > I'm sure ifs for an internal type thing. Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 17:45:47 2008 From: spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (R.T.) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 13:45:47 -0400 Subject: Social networking In-Reply-To: <489886E0.9040101-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <489878E0.9060002@alteeve.com> <489886E0.9040101@alteeve.com> Message-ID: You would visit the aforementioned sites because they are the biggest players in the social networking space. If you aren't even acquainted with the top social networks, how do you expect to implement one? Social networking is a solution, but it is useless without a problem. At this point, it might be better to ask "what is the problem my boss is trying to solve?" On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:59 PM, Lance F. Squire wrote: > R.T. wrote: >> >> You have internet access in the year 2008, and you have NEVER >> encountered Facebook, Myspace, Friendster, Orkut, Bebo, Classmates, >> Epinions, LinkedIn, etc.? >> > > Never been to any of those. Don't know why I would. > > The boss asked me to find one... > > Lance > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 17:59:10 2008 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:59:10 -0400 Subject: Social networking In-Reply-To: References: <489878E0.9060002@alteeve.com> <489886E0.9040101@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <489894EE.7090701@alteeve.com> R.T. wrote: > Social networking is a solution, but it is useless without a problem. > At this point, it might be better to ask "what is the problem my boss > is trying to solve?" > Good advice. Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 18:13:48 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 14:13:48 -0400 Subject: Social networking In-Reply-To: <5aa434200808050933x3b7ca5fcv9586783e831a127c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <489878E0.9060002@alteeve.com> <5aa434200808050933x3b7ca5fcv9586783e831a127c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808051113q39da4dcch45e2914333895d5f@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Mike Ward wrote: > About it failing - that's entirely true if he's planning on just tossing up > yet another site on the internet for general consumption, but I don't think > it's so true if he's planning on using this for a specific group. I've seen > a small locally-run website for a smallish suburb run their own youtube-ish > site, and while they'll never have ten thousand users, that wasn't their > goal, either. They use it to share city council meetings, city event videos, > that sort of thing. In terms of that, it's a success. Any chance of posting a link? I'd be interested in learning more on how cities/communities are leveraging social networking tools. Schools & their boards too, if they are. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 18:16:39 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 14:16:39 -0400 Subject: Social networking In-Reply-To: <489886E0.9040101-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <489878E0.9060002@alteeve.com> <489886E0.9040101@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:59 PM, Lance F. Squire wrote: > R.T. wrote: >> >> You have internet access in the year 2008, and you have NEVER >> encountered Facebook, Myspace, Friendster, Orkut, Bebo, Classmates, >> Epinions, LinkedIn, etc.? >> > > Never been to any of those. Don't know why I would. > > The boss asked me to find one... Ask him which of {Facebook, MySpace, Friendster, Orkut, LinkedIn, Spock} (s)he prefers. If there is no opinion, then there's no reason to prefer any approach, indeed, no reason to do anything other than nothing. Alternatively, you need to see about doing a comparison of them in order to have a "differential comparison" and to have the ability to describe distinguishing characteristics so the boss can say, "Yeah, want that..." If the boss heard from other IT bosses that they're all implementing social networks and that you should have one simply out of "CIO peer pressure," then it doesn't much matter what kind of redheaded stepchild you put in place. If he actually has an opinion on what the system should be able to do, then that should help give you an idea as to what to install. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 20:03:51 2008 From: gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jing) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 16:03:51 -0400 Subject: systems programmer job posting Message-ID: Not from me, but from another research group here at UofT. Contact email is at the end of the posting. The system is in Linux & Xen. I know the guy that spearheads the research project and he's a really good guy with great skills. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Job Posting Systems Programmer SnowFlock Project University of Toronto The SnowFlock project at the Computer Science Department of the University of Toronto is developing an infrastructure for executing parallel applications on cloud-based clusters, e.g., Amazon EC2. In SnowFlock, an application encapsulated inside a virtual machine (VM) is swiftly forked into multiple copies that execute on different physical hosts, and then disappear when the computation ends. SnowFlock targets resource-intensive web applications in areas such as bioinformatics, graphics rendering, computational finance, and search. We are seeking a systems programmer (1 year, extendible contingent on funding). In this role, the individual will have primary responsibility over the following tasks: ? Develop a Snowflock distribution for release to the scientific and engineering community ? Assemble and manage a beta SnowFlock deployment ? Provide technical support to SnowFlock users ? Maintain and fix bugs ? Implement new features Requirements: ? University degree in computer science or closely related field ? Experience in Linux kernel programming and debugging ? Strong programming skills in C language ? Good analytical and problem-solving skills ? Excellent oral and written communication skills in English Personal Characteristics: ? Self motivated ? Team player ? Commitment to the timely completion of developments to schedule Not required but nice to have: ? Knowledge of Xen ? Experience with scientific and parallel applications ? Experience with Web programming ? Experience with Python To apply submit a cover letter and cv to snowflockjobs-26n5VD7DAF0mNOnO2XTxlw at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 21:09:16 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 17:09:16 -0400 Subject: Looking for suggestions; Oakville Townhall Aug 20 Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808051409i5f6e4770ocf8e50ce7df714f2@mail.gmail.com> Sorry for the cross-posting. Sometimes it seems like the only way. Earlier today I received what I suspect to be politcal spam from the Liberal Party and I intend to take them up on their proposition. If anyone has a particular question, let me know. I've a few myself. // The Message // Dear Scott Elcomb, You are invited to join MP Garth Turner and Liberal leader Stephane Dion, for a special evening, as our guest Federal Liberal leader Stephane Dion is coming August 20th, to meet the people. Hosted by MP Garth Turner, Dion will be centre stage at an important Town hall meeting in which citizens can ask him about the big issues facing southern Ontario, and Canada. "Now that Stephen Harper has threatened an election in a few months," Turner says, "it's key that people know where our leaders stand. Stephane Dion is the only one making this effort to get out and ask us all what kind of Canada we want, and how best to cope with the problems which need urgent solutions. I'm encouraging everyone - Liberal supporters or critics - to come and make up their own minds." Turner cites recent job losses in the manufacturing sector as a priority, along with rising energy costs, falling real estate values and mounting family financial stress. He also says Dion will be outlining his Green Shift proposal, which would see personal income taxes slashed, and taxes imposed instead on polluters responsible in part for climate change. "Dion has won the admiration of people across the country for meeting real voters face-to-face," Turner says. "He's not afraid of the tough questions we should all be asking of our politicians, now that the economy's turned sour and the federal government seems to be drifting. This is a chance for everyone in the region to get out and make their voices heard, so policy in Ottawa can better mirror public wishes." The Town Hall meeting takes place Wednesday, August 20th at 7:30 pm. Location: SVCC Hall (St. Volodymyr). 1280 Dundas Street, Oakville (between Trafalgar Rd. and Bronte Rd.). Admission is free, and seating is on a first come-first served basis. Seats may be reserved by calling (905) 693-0166, or emailing garth-B7RCBvrbFNg at public.gmane.org For more information: Esther Shaye Office of Hon. Garth Turner (905) 693-0166 or esther-B7RCBvrbFNg at public.gmane.org Garth Turner MP // End Mesage // // My Response // Hi there, I received an invitation from you today about the townhall meeting in Oakville on August 20th. If you would kindly reserve a seat for me, it would be most appreciated. Thanks, - Scott. // End Response // -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 21:24:20 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 17:24:20 -0400 Subject: Looking for suggestions; Oakville Townhall Aug 20 In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0808051409i5f6e4770ocf8e50ce7df714f2-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0808051409i5f6e4770ocf8e50ce7df714f2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 5:09 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Earlier today I received what I suspect to be politcal spam from the > Liberal Party and I intend to take them up on their proposition. > >If anyone has a particular question, let me know. I've a few myself. People should ask their own questions. Having *more* participation in representational politics seems a much better thing, and for them to ask their own questions helps make that happen! -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 21:54:07 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 17:54:07 -0400 Subject: Looking for suggestions; Oakville Townhall Aug 20 In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0808051409i5f6e4770ocf8e50ce7df714f2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808051454m2a437c68w25b080cec207fb65@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 5:09 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> Earlier today I received what I suspect to be politcal spam from the >> Liberal Party and I intend to take them up on their proposition. >> >>If anyone has a particular question, let me know. I've a few myself. > > People should ask their own questions. > > Having *more* participation in representational politics seems a much > better thing, and for them to ask their own questions helps make that > happen! I wholeheartedly agree. I just can't say that and remain politically correct. There's a pattern there. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 6 05:05:02 2008 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 01:05:02 -0400 Subject: [OT]: Cdn hosting for (extremely) high-load web sites? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0808040933p271ec1datd964b35d90bb05ff-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0808040933p271ec1datd964b35d90bb05ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <489930FE.3060503@rogers.com> Scott Elcomb wrote: > Can anyone recommend a hosting company that provides high-end > dedicated servers at a decent price? (1) http://hetzner.de/rootserver_en.html - hosts the squeak.org site - the biggest offering I see on their site is: AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Dual Core, 8 GB DDR2 RAM, 2x750 GB SATA II (Hardware RAID1). It costs 149 euros/month, add 39 for daily backup, add 135 to top up the bandwidth to 2,500GB (additional 1500 at 0.09 euros), and convert to Cdn$, you get $522. (2) http://www.slicehost.com - suggested by Avi Bryant of dabbledb fame - a 4GB RAM, 160GB disk, 1600GB bandwidth slice goes for $280/month (probably US$). It's a slice of a quad core 64-bit RAID-10 machine - add $60 for backup (price based on slice size, but site only shows $30 for the slice half this size) - add 900 x 0.30 = 270 to top up the bandwidth - totals $610, but you might be able to negotiate a better rate for the backup and bandwidth. It looks like your original quote of $500 was pretty good. I've not used these services, but they're the ones I've been considering. I've never really cranked the numbers on the bandwidth before, so it's been an eye-opening exercise. -- Yanni Chiu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 6 10:05:26 2008 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 06:05:26 -0400 Subject: Format USB HD In-Reply-To: <20080805144035.GF9391-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>; from lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org on Tue, Aug 05, 2008 at 10:40:35 -0400 References: <8AD74DE59BB74464A72EAB3E8B3435A6@JohnPC> <00D6EED899DB486BA474CED849330D53@JohnPC> <20080805144035.GF9391@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080806100526.GA1940@localhost> On Tue Aug 05,2008 10:40:35 AM Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Actually windows CAN use FAT32 larger than 30GB. It just > won't create one. Just thank Microsoft for knowing better > than you what you want. > > You can make a large FAT32 filesystem using linux and windows > will happily use it. A few months ago I formatted a 160G external USB drive as FAT32 and have no problems using it with Windows XP and Linux. I seem to recall that I had trouble using Linux to do the formatting, though. I can't remember why, and afterwards I came to the conclusion that it should have worked and I just did some minor thing wrong. I wish I could remember what it was :-( . Anyway, thinking back, I believe I followed the the instructions on the following page (thus using Windows to do the formatting). -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 6 14:14:32 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 10:14:32 -0400 Subject: Download bsod 0.1 for Linux - bsod project will let you UNIX user experience the authentic microsoft windows experience. - Softpedia Message-ID: <4899B1C8.8050908@rogers.com> http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Utilities/bsod-29186.shtml ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 6 14:21:41 2008 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 10:21:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT]: Cdn hosting for (extremely) high-load web sites? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0808040933p271ec1datd964b35d90bb05ff-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0808040933p271ec1datd964b35d90bb05ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <715281.1506.qm@web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi there, The server specs you're mentioning will be around the $500 (give or take $100) on most decent host providers. At www.rimuhosting.com you can get a server with those specs (with 500GB of transfer less) for $411/month (plus setup): http://rimuhosting.com/order/serverdetails.jsp?plan=DSRHTXXF1 I work for them btw ;-) Two of the advantages we're offering is that you can run one (or more) Virtual Private Servers on top of the dedicated server with Xen, this has many upsides. The other thing we're very well known for is the quality of the support. We are a Linux-only shop and very pro-OS. Definitively shop around for the provider and look for personal recommendations or real reviews in blogs etc. One thing I used to do when looking for hosting was sending an email with some technical questions (easy and harder) off business hours, then I could see: the response time, if the person answering was a sales drone copy-pasting or a real tech etc. Margins in the industry are very low and if a price looks too cheap that should be suspicious. Fernando --- Scott Elcomb wrote: > Over the last few days an opportunity has been > offered to me that I'd > really like to jump on. There are some hefty > requirements that I'm > not used to having to deal with and would like to > ask for help from > experienced community members when I get stuck. > > This is likely the first in a series of questions > (I'll keep it to a > minimum) over the next month or two. When we're > ready to go live, > I'll post the link[1]. > > My first question involves hosting providers. The > project is > high-impact and will likely draw in extremely large > numbers of > one-time and repeat users. (That's the purpose - we > want to hit > 100,000,000+ interactions before the end of the > year.) > > Can anyone recommend a hosting company that provides > high-end > dedicated servers at a decent price? I resell > hosting as part of my > business operations, but the servers are located in > Texas and the best > solution[1] my provider has will run me about $500 > month. I'd like to > know if there's a better deal out there, preferably > Canadian. > > I might also be looking for more direct help in > various IS&T related > problems, in which case I'd like to know in advance > if anyone minds my > posting problem descriptions and skill requirements > here. > > TIA, > - Scott > > > [1] Spoiler - I was planning a blog and writing the > first post (a > step-by-step guide to building the pre-cursor to > Atomic OS and WAJAX) > when this opportunity came up. I haven't decided > whether I'm in or > out just yet but either way I'll cover this projects > story on "The > Hackers Itch" at http://psema4.com/blog/ > > [2] Quad-Core 3210 Xeon, 2x250gb SATA II with > automated daily backups, > 4GB RAM, 2,500GB of bandwidth, and all the open > source you can ask > for. Well almost anyway. ;-) > > -- > Scott Elcomb > http://www.psema4.com/ > > http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 6 17:57:16 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 13:57:16 -0400 Subject: Format USB HD In-Reply-To: <20080806100526.GA1940@localhost> References: <8AD74DE59BB74464A72EAB3E8B3435A6@JohnPC> <00D6EED899DB486BA474CED849330D53@JohnPC> <20080805144035.GF9391@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080806100526.GA1940@localhost> Message-ID: <20080806175716.GH9391@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 06, 2008 at 06:05:26AM -0400, Scott Allen wrote: > On Tue Aug 05,2008 10:40:35 AM Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >Actually windows CAN use FAT32 larger than 30GB. It just > >won't create one. Just thank Microsoft for knowing better > >than you what you want. > > > >You can make a large FAT32 filesystem using linux and windows > >will happily use it. > > A few months ago I formatted a 160G external USB drive as FAT32 and > have no problems using it with Windows XP and Linux. > > I seem to recall that I had trouble using Linux to do the formatting, > though. I can't remember why, and afterwards I came to the conclusion > that it should have worked and I just did some minor thing wrong. I > wish I could remember what it was :-( . > > Anyway, thinking back, I believe I followed the the instructions on > the following page (thus using Windows to do the formatting). > mkdosfs -F 32 /dev/sde1 (for example) Works fine for me. I have done that for 80GB no problem, and I think probably larger too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 7 16:55:37 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 12:55:37 -0400 Subject: Rogers' new DNS re-direct practice foils telecommuting Message-ID: <489B2909.6010202@rogers.com> http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/en/Home/News.asp?id=49442 -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 7 18:25:24 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 14:25:24 -0400 Subject: Rogers' new DNS re-direct practice foils telecommuting In-Reply-To: <489B2909.6010202-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <489B2909.6010202@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 12:55 PM, James Knott wrote: > http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/en/Home/News.asp?id=49442 This shows why you ought to resolve DNS via *your own* DNS server, not Rogers'. Your own DNS server will have the addresses of the 13 root servers, and head to them and to the other delegated *authoritative* sources rather than entrusting the obviously-untrustworthy with responsibility. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 7 18:33:41 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:33:41 -0400 Subject: Using FOSS to circumvent the Great Firewall of China Message-ID: <489B4005.2030009@telly.org> Quite timely, too... http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/online/features/openvpn_counters_censorship - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 7 18:43:31 2008 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 14:43:31 -0400 Subject: Rogers' new DNS re-direct practice foils telecommuting In-Reply-To: <489B2909.6010202-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <489B2909.6010202@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080807184331.GB3830@watson-wilson.ca> Although I'm not with Rogers, I have noticed that the VPN client I use with my latest client does not work. I wonder if other ISPs are doing something similar. -- Neil Watson System Administrator for hire http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 7 19:14:39 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:14:39 -0400 Subject: Rogers' new DNS re-direct practice foils telecommuting In-Reply-To: <20080807184331.GB3830-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <489B2909.6010202@rogers.com> <20080807184331.GB3830@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <489B499F.90607@rogers.com> Neil Watson wrote: > Although I'm not with Rogers, I have noticed that the VPN client I use > with my latest client does not work. I wonder if other ISPs are doing > something similar. > Fire up Wireshark and see what's happening. If it is a DNS issue, then an host file entry may fix the problem. I'm using a VPN over Rogers, but in the other direction. It connects my remote computer, usually at the office, to my home network. I'm curious as to how this problem is occuring, as one would assume the correct host name should still work and any traffic for the office should not be going out onto the internet. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 7 19:43:30 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 15:43:30 -0400 Subject: Puretracks considers GNU/Linux a variant of Windows 98 (first edition)? Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808071243p38c67e22mdfca947e729c0c01@mail.gmail.com> A recent tragedy had me out walking and thinking about things. In my hand I'm holding a promotional prepaid card that I found for Puretracks.com, compliments of the OLG. (See http://www.puretracks.com/olg for details) I've no idea if it's any good or not, but what I found when I read it gave me a bit of a start. In a way I'm glad to see that they even refer to GNU/Linux, however the wording on the back of the card leaves something to be desired: Puretracks.com supports the following Operating Systems: Windows 98 SE, Windows ME, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows 2003, MAC. Puretracks is not compatible with Windows NT4, Windows 98 (first edition) and GNU/Linux variant. MP3 tracks download to MAC and iPods. WMA tracks are not compatible with MAC. When combined with text from the website... such as "Our support of major musical events is one of the many ways that OLG creates 'Everyday Possibilities' for the people of Ontario," I find it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Everyday Possibilities for the people of Ontario? GNU/Linux is that. But a variant of Windows? OMG. Surely it's a typo or something. Still, gimme a break. After this message shows up on Gmane, I'll forward the link to Puretracks. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 7 22:00:53 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 18:00:53 -0400 Subject: Puretracks considers GNU/Linux a variant of Windows 98 (first edition)? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0808071243p38c67e22mdfca947e729c0c01-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0808071243p38c67e22mdfca947e729c0c01@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280808071500r785a59een1c272b029ac94fc4@mail.gmail.com> 2008/8/7 Scott Elcomb : > In a way I'm glad to see that they even refer to GNU/Linux, however > the wording on the back of the card leaves something to be desired: > > Puretracks.com supports the following Operating Systems: > Windows 98 SE, Windows ME, Windows 2000, Windows XP, > Windows 2003, MAC. Puretracks is not compatible with > Windows NT4, Windows 98 (first edition) and GNU/Linux > variant. MP3 tracks download to MAC and iPods. WMA > tracks are not compatible with MAC. > > But a variant of Windows? OMG. > > Surely it's a typo or something. Still, gimme a break. After this > message shows up on Gmane, I'll forward the link to Puretracks. Please forgive the quote recycling: "never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by bad grammar." I think they have simply grouped the OSes badly and didn't mean to suggest that Linux was a variant of Windows. Anyone who would go so far as to call it "GNU/Linux" has obviously read at least a little on the subject. And if you're going to get all hot and bothered about it, feel free to protest for *BSD: unsupported AND unmentioned. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 8 13:24:49 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 09:24:49 -0400 Subject: Desktop BSD? (WAS: Puretracks considers GNU/Linux a variant of Windows 98) Message-ID: <3a97ef0808080624l24b11656q2adcb7271bfc45cf@mail.gmail.com> Just out of curiosity, does anyone use BSD on the desktop? I'm fairly used to seeing it on servers, but even in shops that are heavy on using FOSS the desktops are usually Linux even if the servers are BSD. My ports tree seems to have a good array of GUI apps (not that I've installed any, but they're here if I wanted to), but I suspect one of the main issues might be kernel support for "new, fancy hardware X." Comments? On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > 2008/8/7 Scott Elcomb : >> In a way I'm glad to see that they even refer to GNU/Linux, however >> the wording on the back of the card leaves something to be desired: >> >> Puretracks.com supports the following Operating Systems: >> Windows 98 SE, Windows ME, Windows 2000, Windows XP, >> Windows 2003, MAC. Puretracks is not compatible with >> Windows NT4, Windows 98 (first edition) and GNU/Linux >> variant. MP3 tracks download to MAC and iPods. WMA >> tracks are not compatible with MAC. >> >> But a variant of Windows? OMG. >> >> Surely it's a typo or something. Still, gimme a break. After this >> message shows up on Gmane, I'll forward the link to Puretracks. > > Please forgive the quote recycling: "never attribute to malice that > which can adequately be explained by bad grammar." I think they have > simply grouped the OSes badly and didn't mean to suggest that Linux > was a variant of Windows. Anyone who would go so far as to call it > "GNU/Linux" has obviously read at least a little on the subject. And > if you're going to get all hot and bothered about it, feel free to > protest for *BSD: unsupported AND unmentioned. > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 8 14:32:37 2008 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 10:32:37 -0400 Subject: Ottawa Linux Symposium 2008 Videos Message-ID: Available for download at http://free-electrons.com/community/videos/conferences/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david-KgjyJOZJJiMsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 8 14:46:12 2008 From: david-KgjyJOZJJiMsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (David Payne) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:46:12 -0400 Subject: Desktop BSD? (WAS: Puretracks considers GNU/Linux a variant of Windows 98) In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0808080624l24b11656q2adcb7271bfc45cf-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0808080624l24b11656q2adcb7271bfc45cf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1218206772.30314.6.camel@majorpayne> Hi, On Fri, 2008-08-08 at 09:24 -0400, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Just out of curiosity, does anyone use BSD on the desktop? I use FreeBSD on my desktop system at home. I wanted to learn a bit more about FreeBSD but I didn't want to put it on my home server because it has been doing so well with Debian. The experience so far has been very similar to using Linux on the desktop. > My ports tree seems to have a good array of GUI apps (not that I've > installed any, but they're here if I wanted to), but I suspect one of > the main issues might be kernel support for "new, fancy hardware X." I had no problem setting up Gnome 2.22 and all the other GUI applications I use. I even have Compiz-Fusion set up without any trouble. I don't have any new and fancy hardware. My computer is a few years old, but everything is supported for me. I'm not a FreeBSD expert or anything, but it's working for me. David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 9 20:10:05 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 16:10:05 -0400 Subject: Linksys WPC54G v3 on Ubuntu 8.04 Message-ID: <489DF99D.1020109@alteeve.com> Hi all, I've got a wireless card that worked the last time I played with it, but doesn't seem to work anymore. I am suspecting it is a hardware problem, but thought I'd consult the TLUG collective to see if maybe I am missing something. I've got a Thinkpad T40 running Ubuntu 8.04.1 and am trying to use a Linksys WPC54G v3 PCMCIA wireless NIC. I've installed the drivers (freshly downloaded) and loaded them under ndiswrapper, but it keeps declaring the hardware to not be present. I used a PCMCIA USB2 card to verify that the cardbus controller was fine, and it is. Below is the output of '/var/log/message' when I insert and remove the wireless card followed by the USB card (to show that it works). Any suggestions, tips or whatnot before I declare this NIC dead and gone? Thanks! Madi -=-=-=-=-=-=- digimer at akane:/var/log$ tail -f -n 0 syslog Aug 9 16:03:33 akane kernel: [ 699.947600] pccard: CardBus card inserted into slot 0 # <- Wireless card inserted Aug 9 16:03:43 akane kernel: [ 710.044884] pccard: card ejected from slot 0 # <- wireless card ejected Aug 9 16:03:49 akane kernel: [ 715.610920] pccard: CardBus card inserted into slot 0 # <- USB card inserted Aug 9 16:03:49 akane kernel: [ 715.611341] PCI: Enabling device 0000:03:00.2 (0000 -> 0002) Aug 9 16:03:49 akane kernel: [ 715.611351] ACPI: PCI Interrupt 0000:03:00.2[C] -> Link [LNKA] -> GSI 9 (level, low) -> IRQ 9 Aug 9 16:03:49 akane kernel: [ 715.611382] ehci_hcd 0000:03:00.2: EHCI Host Controller Aug 9 16:03:49 akane kernel: [ 715.611423] ehci_hcd 0000:03:00.2: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 5 Aug 9 16:03:49 akane kernel: [ 715.611472] ehci_hcd 0000:03:00.2: irq 9, io mem 0xc4002000 Aug 9 16:03:49 akane kernel: [ 715.622929] ehci_hcd 0000:03:00.2: USB 2.0 started, EHCI 1.00, driver 10 Dec 2004 Aug 9 16:03:49 akane kernel: [ 715.623091] usb usb5: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice Aug 9 16:03:49 akane kernel: [ 715.623123] hub 5-0:1.0: USB hub found .... -=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 9 20:18:11 2008 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:18:11 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? Message-ID: subject is self explanatory, I'm getting all the bounces, any help would be appreciated. I know it will stop eventually, but in the meantime it's a PITA. --dc-- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 9 20:23:07 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 16:23:07 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <489DFCAB.60700@alteeve.com> Dave Cramer wrote: > subject is self explanatory, > > I'm getting all the bounces, any help would be appreciated. > > I know it will stop eventually, but in the meantime it's a PITA. > > --dc-- Can you post an example of one of these emails? Specifically, the full header? I suspect shenanigans. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 9 20:25:05 2008 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:25:05 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <489DFCAB.60700-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <489DFCAB.60700@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <8060D2D1-370F-4C47-8F8A-16A3220C8DC4@visibleassets.com> On 9-Aug-08, at 4:23 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Dave Cramer wrote: >> subject is self explanatory, >> I'm getting all the bounces, any help would be appreciated. >> I know it will stop eventually, but in the meantime it's a PITA. >> --dc-- > > Can you post an example of one of these emails? Specifically, the > full header? I suspect shenanigans. > Sure This message was created automatically by mail delivery software. A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: postmaster-o6o4ZEf+ljE at public.gmane.org ------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------ Return-path: Received: from [199.172.211.27] (helo=27.ppp-dhcp.logic.bm) by free1.firehosting.nl with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1KRtLs-000BwO-Cp for postmaster-o6o4ZEf+ljE at public.gmane.org; Sat, 09 Aug 2008 20:39:44 +0200 Message-ID: <000701c8fa4f$03a58cba$66776fb1 at ekeyy> From: "killie sph" To: "burr bertrand" Subject: PssstUSA Players! Find BIG THINGS & 2400$ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 16:52:16 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C8FA4F.03A17DBB" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 9 20:40:33 2008 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 14:40:33 -0600 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <8060D2D1-370F-4C47-8F8A-16A3220C8DC4-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <489DFCAB.60700@alteeve.com> <8060D2D1-370F-4C47-8F8A-16A3220C8DC4@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <489E00C1.8030801@ualberta.ca> Dave, For each one of these contact the administrator of the recipient mail system. You see in the Received .... by (systemname). The highest (topmost) one in the list will be it's eventual destination. Do a whois on both the recipient's domain as in the To: line and in the systemname of the eventual destination. Those guys have information about where the mail came from, even if it bounces. In the case below, you can find the admin/tech contacts by doing a whois on rin.nl and firehosting.nl. Explain the situation to them and send them the header of these bounce-backs. Chances are it will not fix your problem in the short term (I don't know a way this can be fixed).. and even if the remote admins do anything about it they might not catch the spammer because they are probably using open relays, but if that's the case then at least the open relays can be identified and shut down. If the spammer used an SMTP server from a trackable source (an ISP), then maybe we'll get lucky and there'll be one less spammer out there ruining the Internet (or one more virus-infected Windows machine spotted?) :) Marc Dave Cramer wrote: > > On 9-Aug-08, at 4:23 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> Dave Cramer wrote: >>> subject is self explanatory, >>> I'm getting all the bounces, any help would be appreciated. >>> I know it will stop eventually, but in the meantime it's a PITA. >>> --dc-- >> >> Can you post an example of one of these emails? Specifically, the full >> header? I suspect shenanigans. >> > > Sure > > This message was created automatically by mail delivery software. > > A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its > recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: > > postmaster-o6o4ZEf+ljE at public.gmane.org > > > ------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------ > > Return-path: > > Received: from [199.172.211.27] (helo=27.ppp-dhcp.logic.bm) > by free1.firehosting.nl with esmtp (Exim 4.62) > (envelope-from >) > id 1KRtLs-000BwO-Cp > for postmaster-o6o4ZEf+ljE at public.gmane.org ; Sat, 09 Aug 2008 > 20:39:44 +0200 > Message-ID: <000701c8fa4f$03a58cba$66776fb1 at ekeyy> > From: "killie sph" > > To: "burr bertrand" > > Subject: PssstUSA Players! Find BIG THINGS & 2400$ > Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 16:52:16 +0000 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C8FA4F.03A17DBB" > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 >> > > -- A computer without Windows is like chocolate cake without mustard. -- Unknown -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 9 20:44:07 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 16:44:07 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <489E0197.6040107@rogers.com> Dave Cramer wrote: > subject is self explanatory, > > I'm getting all the bounces, any help would be appreciated. > > I know it will stop eventually, but in the meantime it's a PITA. > No. Sorry about that. Anyone can put your email address in their client and send emails with your address as the sender. In this case it is likely a windows machine taken over by a bot. Best you can do is add a filter to your email software. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 9 20:52:46 2008 From: phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:52:46 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Aug 9, 2008, at 4:18 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > I'm getting all the bounces, any help would be appreciated. I don't have any answers. When it happens to me I sometimes send semi-snarky messages to the admins of the servers, saying things like: "My address resolves to a Canadian ISP and the Received: header shows that the spam you got came from Bermuda. There's a notable distance between these. Please stop adding to the internet's spam problem." I suspect it does no good, but at least it allows me to vent a little about the absolute stupidity of anyone who would run software that bounces messages to From: addresses. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 9 21:02:41 2008 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 17:02:41 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <76515BFC-91B4-4569-BB84-D6B2469C30BA@visibleassets.com> On 9-Aug-08, at 4:52 PM, Phillip Mills wrote: > On Aug 9, 2008, at 4:18 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > >> I'm getting all the bounces, any help would be appreciated. > > I don't have any answers. When it happens to me I sometimes send > semi-snarky messages to the admins of the servers, saying things > like: "My address resolves to a Canadian ISP and the Received: > header shows that the spam you got came from Bermuda. There's a > notable distance between these. Please stop adding to the > internet's spam problem." > > I suspect it does no good, but at least it allows me to vent a > little about the absolute stupidity of anyone who would run software > that bounces messages to From: addresses. Didn't think anything could be done, but doesn't hurt to ask. Guess I just wait out the storm. --dc-- > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 9 21:43:53 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 17:43:53 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <489E0F99.5030405@rogers.com> Dave Cramer wrote: > subject is self explanatory, > > I'm getting all the bounces, any help would be appreciated. > > I know it will stop eventually, but in the meantime it's a PITA. > Are you referring to spam bounces? If so, some spammer got your address from somewhere and is using it to send out their garbage. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 9 21:48:01 2008 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 17:48:01 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <489E0F99.5030405-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <489E0F99.5030405@rogers.com> Message-ID: <9DCBFD4B-0CED-4387-A508-6135C133A0BF@visibleassets.com> On 9-Aug-08, at 5:43 PM, James Knott wrote: > Dave Cramer wrote: >> subject is self explanatory, >> >> I'm getting all the bounces, any help would be appreciated. >> >> I know it will stop eventually, but in the meantime it's a PITA. >> > > Are you referring to spam bounces? If so, some spammer got your > address from somewhere and is using it to send out their garbage. Yeah this is what it is, I am grasping at straws. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 9 22:22:26 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 18:22:26 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <9DCBFD4B-0CED-4387-A508-6135C133A0BF-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <489E0F99.5030405@rogers.com> <9DCBFD4B-0CED-4387-A508-6135C133A0BF@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808091522t499b2163qa9d2216bbb4a3322@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 5:48 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > On 9-Aug-08, at 5:43 PM, James Knott wrote: > >> Are you referring to spam bounces? If so, some spammer got your address >> from somewhere and is using it to send out their garbage. > > Yeah this is what it is, I am grasping at straws.-- I know for a fact just how much trouble it can be, but there is an obvious alternative. YMMV. Create a new email account. -Scott. PS to all: Sorry for the odd posts lately... it's be a _really_ messed-up week and I'm trying not to post. I'll blog something... eventually. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 9 22:42:24 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 18:42:24 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <9DCBFD4B-0CED-4387-A508-6135C133A0BF-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <489E0F99.5030405@rogers.com> <9DCBFD4B-0CED-4387-A508-6135C133A0BF@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <489E1D50.3030703@alteeve.com> Dave Cramer wrote: > > On 9-Aug-08, at 5:43 PM, James Knott wrote: > >> Dave Cramer wrote: >>> subject is self explanatory, >>> >>> I'm getting all the bounces, any help would be appreciated. >>> >>> I know it will stop eventually, but in the meantime it's a PITA. >>> >> >> Are you referring to spam bounces? If so, some spammer got your >> address from somewhere and is using it to send out their garbage. > > Yeah this is what it is, I am grasping at straws.-- Look into Sender Policy Framework. If you run the mail server and you (and any other users) send your outbound email through it, it will cut down on the bounce backs very effectively. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 9 23:24:42 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 23:24:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Aug 2008, Phillip Mills wrote: > I don't have any answers. When it happens to me I sometimes send > semi-snarky messages to the admins of the servers, saying things like: > "My address resolves to a Canadian ISP and the Received: header shows > that the spam you got came from Bermuda. There's a notable distance > between these. Please stop adding to the internet's spam problem." Hi Phillip. Blocking mail based on source is what SPF is for. It causes lots of problems. For one thing SPF is essentially incompatible with mailing lists just like this one. Even if it were possible for the receiving MTA to make a rational decision about whether the email's path had anything to do with whether it is spam or not it would block a lot of legimate email. Examples include, lists hosted in far off lands, back up MXs in other countries, ISPs with networks spanning large areas (who said the ISPs MTA sends to send the email out from anywhere near you). > I suspect it does no good, but at least it allows me to vent a little about > the absolute stupidity of anyone who would run software that bounces > messages to From: addresses. It's an RFC 2821/2822 requirement. A bounce message is a very important part of SMTP so the MTAs sending the bounces aren't generally at fault. Without bounce messages a sender would have no way of knowing that their email had failed to reach its destination. This bounce is an example of backscatter spam which has a number of causes. The spammers and those with boxes suceptible to backscatter are the cause. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 9 23:56:58 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 23:56:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Aug 2008, Robert Brockway wrote: > It's an RFC 2821/2822 requirement. A bounce message is a very important > part of SMTP so the MTAs sending the bounces aren't generally at fault. > Without *sigh* This is a good reason not to write a technical email while being distracted. In general the sender of a bounce is doing nothing wrong, however if the MTA accepts the email before verifying the receipient it can become a source of backscatter spam so in this case the sender of the bounce probably is at fault. I'm happy with the rest of my original email, although I'm still being distracted :) Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 00:02:35 2008 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 20:02:35 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> On 9-Aug-08, at 7:56 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sat, 9 Aug 2008, Robert Brockway wrote: > >> It's an RFC 2821/2822 requirement. A bounce message is a very >> important part of SMTP so the MTAs sending the bounces aren't >> generally at fault. Without > > *sigh* This is a good reason not to write a technical email while > being > distracted. > > In general the sender of a bounce is doing nothing wrong, however if > the MTA accepts the email before verifying the receipient it can > become a source of backscatter spam so in this case the sender of > the bounce probably is at fault. pretty much what I figured. The bounce is legitimate. The most interesting thing is I'm getting about 500 bounces a day for the last 3 days. Each one from a different ip address. This means that there are at least 1500 machines in this botnet sending the spam. Scary when you think about it. And that doesn't even include all the emails that are actually getting through to their intended victim. --dc-- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 00:08:23 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 20:08:23 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> Dave Cramer wrote: > > On 9-Aug-08, at 7:56 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > >> On Sat, 9 Aug 2008, Robert Brockway wrote: >> >>> It's an RFC 2821/2822 requirement. A bounce message is a very >>> important part of SMTP so the MTAs sending the bounces aren't >>> generally at fault. Without >> >> *sigh* This is a good reason not to write a technical email while being >> distracted. >> >> In general the sender of a bounce is doing nothing wrong, however if >> the MTA accepts the email before verifying the receipient it can >> become a source of backscatter spam so in this case the sender of the >> bounce probably is at fault. > > pretty much what I figured. The bounce is legitimate. > > The most interesting thing is I'm getting about 500 bounces a day for > the last 3 days. Each one from a different ip address. This means that > there are at least 1500 machines in this botnet sending the spam. > Scary when you think about it. And that doesn't even include all the > emails that are actually getting through to their intended victim. > Here's an article about the problem: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6752853.stm -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 00:54:04 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 00:54:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <489E3177.3080903-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Aug 2008, James Knott wrote: > Here's an article about the problem: > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6752853.stm "Operation Bot Roast". Who ever came up with that deserves a prize :) A lot of companies now block outbound SMTP from anywhere except their legitimate MTAs but the routers used by home users don't. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 00:51:56 2008 From: phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 20:51:56 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08A528F1-06DE-498D-8B49-6D5370E537B4@acm.org> On Aug 9, 2008, at 7:24 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > It's an RFC 2821/2822 requirement. That really doesn't strike me as a valid argument for doing something that is ineffective at achieving its purpose and abusive of an innocent 3rd party. For spam rejections, using the From: header these days is probably as reliable as choosing an email address out of thin air. I don't know all the options for spam bounces, but some that would be clear improvements are: - fix RFCs that didn't take forgery into account - apply some intelligence to the software so that it bounces to the nearest "received from" point (which can then take whatever action it needs to) - simply drop the message so as to stop making the problem worse But the approach of dumping crap on someone, who has been chosen more or less at random, because a RFC document doesn't take current reality into account seems totally wrong-headed to me. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 01:03:17 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 21:03:17 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> Message-ID: <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sat, 9 Aug 2008, James Knott wrote: > >> Here's an article about the problem: >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6752853.stm > > "Operation Bot Roast". Who ever came up with that deserves a prize :) > > A lot of companies now block outbound SMTP from anywhere except their > legitimate MTAs but the routers used by home users don't. > > Cheers, > > Rob > What would a home router block on? Is this spam sent by their ISP's SMTP server or another? Many ISPs block port 25 from off their network. I often use Rogers SMTP server from off net, but they have another port number specifically for that use. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 01:06:00 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 01:06:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <08A528F1-06DE-498D-8B49-6D5370E537B4-HInyCGIudOg@public.gmane.org> References: <08A528F1-06DE-498D-8B49-6D5370E537B4@acm.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Aug 2008, Phillip Mills wrote: > On Aug 9, 2008, at 7:24 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > >> It's an RFC 2821/2822 requirement. > > That really doesn't strike me as a valid argument for doing something that is > ineffective at achieving its purpose and abusive of an innocent 3rd party. Hi Phillip. I agree with dropping a bounce if it is positively identified as spam (and many sites do) but as we know spotting spam isn't always easy. I read your email like you were suggesting _all_ bounces should be dropped which is why I mentioned the RFCs. It seems we may have been talking at cross purposes. My email was based on the belief that the backscatter had not been dropped as spam and then I was discussing how to avoid this problem. > I don't know all the options for spam bounces, but some that would be clear > improvements are: > - fix RFCs that didn't take forgery into account This probably will happen. Common practice is to drop backscatter spam if it is identified and the RFCs are periodically updated to match practice. > - apply some intelligence to the software so that it bounces to the nearest > "received from" point (which can then take whatever action it needs to) When the MTA rejects receipt of an email the sender is supposed to take it up and deal with it. Spammers don't of course. > - simply drop the message so as to stop making the problem worse This is the common approach. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 01:17:46 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 01:17:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <489E3E55.7020109-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Aug 2008, James Knott wrote: [Discussion of blocking SMTP] > What would a home router block on? Is this spam sent by their ISP's SMTP Destination ports tcp/25 and tcp/587. It occured to me the little routers could default to blocking and allow people to open the access if they want. Not sure I'm totally happy with this though, from a philosophical POV. > server or another? Many ISPs block port 25 from off their network. I often I'm not sure how wide spread the practice is right now. Rogers certainly does it. An alternative would be for them to transparent proxy the SMTP ports so that any attempt to reach an outside MTA would have to go through their MTAs. I expect the reason they don't do this is that it would add a lot of load. RBLs help to block spam from end-user systems too. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 01:20:58 2008 From: phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 21:20:58 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: References: <08A528F1-06DE-498D-8B49-6D5370E537B4@acm.org> Message-ID: <9E61D7E8-703E-4F1A-A38C-1489F165312A@acm.org> On Aug 9, 2008, at 9:06 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > When the MTA rejects receipt of an email the sender is supposed to > take it up and deal with it. Spammers don't of course. I'm curious how 'sender' is actually defined in that. I seems right as long as it's the true sender (i.e. mail client or transmitting agent), which limits the fallout to those directly involved...though, again, probably not the root-cause spammers. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 01:23:56 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 21:23:56 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> Message-ID: <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sat, 9 Aug 2008, James Knott wrote: > > [Discussion of blocking SMTP] > >> What would a home router block on? Is this spam sent by their ISP's >> SMTP > > Destination ports tcp/25 and tcp/587. It occured to me the little > routers could default to blocking and allow people to open the access > if they want. Not sure I'm totally happy with this though, from a > philosophical POV. Wouldn't blocking those port prevent people from sending mail? Firewall/routers should already block incoming ports. As I understand it, the problem is caused by malware generating the spam on hijacked computers. How would a firewall tell the difference from legitimate mail from a user, if only filtering port 25. > >> server or another? Many ISPs block port 25 from off their network. >> I often > > I'm not sure how wide spread the practice is right now. Rogers > certainly does it. Yes, they block port 25, but provide an alternate port for legitimate off net mail. > > An alternative would be for them to transparent proxy the SMTP ports > so that any attempt to reach an outside MTA would have to go through > their MTAs. I expect the reason they don't do this is that it would > add a lot of load. > > RBLs help to block spam from end-user systems too. > > Cheers, > > Rob > -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 03:16:55 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 03:16:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <489E432C.6020301-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Aug 2008, James Knott wrote: I wrote: >> Destination ports tcp/25 and tcp/587. It occured to me the little routers >> could default to blocking and allow people to open the access if they want. >> Not sure I'm totally happy with this though, from a philosophical POV. > > Wouldn't blocking those port prevent people from sending mail? Sure would. That's the point :) > Firewall/routers should already block incoming ports. As I understand > it, the problem is caused by malware generating the spam on hijacked > computers. How would a firewall tell the difference from legitimate mail > from a user, if only filtering port 25. It wouldn't. I was thinking out loud a bit but it occured to me that most people are using webmail these days but their local MS-Win boxes can still send outbound email which is probably a lot more likely to be used by a Trojan than for legit email. So perhaps blocking the ability to send outbound SMTP from home systems by default might be an interesting idea to explore. It somewhat goes against the concept of net neutrality but it could be unblocked easily enough. Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 03:20:19 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 23:20:19 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808092020m725b2ddeq26a92b16c40ea4c9@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 11:16 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: [...] (SMTP discussion) So perhaps blocking the ability to send > outbound SMTP from home systems by default might be an interesting idea to > explore. It somewhat goes against the concept of net neutrality but it > could be unblocked easily enough. Sorry - can't resist. If "the people" make it an issue and _ask_ for that as a default, how does it affect the concept of net neutrality? The whole fight over "Net Neutrality" is about corporations (or ... shudder... gov't) making decisions for us - without necessarily asking for consent - isn't it? -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david-KgjyJOZJJiMsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 03:22:58 2008 From: david-KgjyJOZJJiMsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (David Payne) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 23:22:58 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1218338578.2034.3.camel@kit.dapayne.no-ip.org> On Sun, 2008-08-10 at 03:16 +0000, Robert Brockway wrote: > It wouldn't. I was thinking out loud a bit but it occured to me that most > people are using webmail these days but their local MS-Win boxes can still > send outbound email which is probably a lot more likely to be used by a > Trojan than for legit email. So perhaps blocking the ability to send > outbound SMTP from home systems by default might be an interesting idea to > explore. It somewhat goes against the concept of net neutrality but it > could be unblocked easily enough. > > Rob Hi, I have only delt with 3 ISPs. Two from Nova Scotia and one from here (Rogers). All three blocked port 25 outbound, I thought that was the norm rather than the exception. David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 03:40:02 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 03:40:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0808092020m725b2ddeq26a92b16c40ea4c9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0808092020m725b2ddeq26a92b16c40ea4c9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Aug 2008, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Sorry - can't resist. If "the people" make it an issue and _ask_ for > that as a default, how does it affect the concept of net neutrality? > The whole fight over "Net Neutrality" is about corporations (or ... > shudder... gov't) making decisions for us - without necessarily asking > for consent - isn't it? I think there is a broad and a narrow definition. The narrow one is as you state but the broad definition is that the underlying design of the Internet should not be predisposed towards certain types of traffic or make assumptions about how people will use the network in the future. We shouldn't (for example) tweak TCP network wide to help HTTP because we can't predict how the network will be used in 20 or 50 years time. I feel that both definitions have been used in various net neutrality discussions I've read - often without being explicitely phrased. I can't think of specific examples but I'm sure I've seen the broad definition implicitely used on the NANOG list. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 04:04:52 2008 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 22:04:52 -0600 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <1218338578.2034.3.camel-2Hi6JQcAGi8AHMTbpXzMAC5qC8QIuHrW@public.gmane.org> References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> <1218338578.2034.3.camel@kit.dapayne.no-ip.org> Message-ID: <489E68E4.50602@ualberta.ca> David Payne wrote: > On Sun, 2008-08-10 at 03:16 +0000, Robert Brockway wrote: > >> It wouldn't. I was thinking out loud a bit but it occured to me that most >> people are using webmail these days but their local MS-Win boxes can still >> send outbound email which is probably a lot more likely to be used by a >> Trojan than for legit email. So perhaps blocking the ability to send >> outbound SMTP from home systems by default might be an interesting idea to >> explore. It somewhat goes against the concept of net neutrality but it >> could be unblocked easily enough. >> >> Rob > > Hi, > > I have only delt with 3 ISPs. Two from Nova Scotia and one from here > (Rogers). All three blocked port 25 outbound, I thought that was the > norm rather than the exception. Are you claiming that when I hook up to Rogers I will not allowed to send mail from my machine using a Rogers SMTP server via port 25? If so.. please, *please* tell me they allow SMTP connections on other ports or I'll lose it. I'm one of the remaining few (< 10%?) people who can't stand the latency of web-based mail clients-- I only use them temporarily when I'm away from a desktop with an email client setup. As you can tell.. I'm dreading the day that webmail will be forced on me! Do they force SSL or TLS? Do they also force authentication for outbound mail? If so then great.. the more ISPs do this, the better. I'm wondering why it wasn't done 10 years ago. Marc -- A computer without Windows is like chocolate cake without mustard. -- Unknown -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david-KgjyJOZJJiMsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 04:12:05 2008 From: david-KgjyJOZJJiMsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (David Payne) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 00:12:05 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <489E68E4.50602-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> <1218338578.2034.3.camel@kit.dapayne.no-ip.org> <489E68E4.50602@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <1218341525.2034.9.camel@kit.dapayne.no-ip.org> On Sat, 2008-08-09 at 22:04 -0600, Marc Lanctot wrote: > Are you claiming that when I hook up to Rogers I will not allowed to > send mail from my machine using a Rogers SMTP server via port 25? Hi, Sorry, I didn't mean that at all. I never tried rogers email, but I'm sure they allow you to send email through their SMTP server. I just ment to say that there is no way I am able to contact my SMTP server on port 25. David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 04:14:23 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 04:14:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <1218338578.2034.3.camel-2Hi6JQcAGi8AHMTbpXzMAC5qC8QIuHrW@public.gmane.org> References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> <1218338578.2034.3.camel@kit.dapayne.no-ip.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Aug 2008, David Payne wrote: > I have only delt with 3 ISPs. Two from Nova Scotia and one from here > (Rogers). All three blocked port 25 outbound, I thought that was the > norm rather than the exception. I used to consult to alot of ISPs but have has less direct involvement in ISP networks in recent years. Having said that, in my experience small DSL providers normally don't block outbound SMTP. I decided to ask around on this point on irc channels frequented by sysadmins and got surprising answers. Based solely on asking in these channels I found the following results: 1. In Australia a lot of ISPs are not blocking outbound SMTP or will open it if requested. 2. In North America it is the norm to block outbound tcp/25 but blocking outbound tcp/587 (submission) is less common. Of course this is hardly a scientific assessment :) Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 04:18:47 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 04:18:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <489E68E4.50602-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> <1218338578.2034.3.camel@kit.dapayne.no-ip.org> <489E68E4.50602@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Aug 2008, Marc Lanctot wrote: > Are you claiming that when I hook up to Rogers I will not allowed to send > mail from my machine using a Rogers SMTP server via port 25? If so.. please, Hi Marc. Rogers will allow you to talk to their MTA (requiring authentication iirc). They will not allow you to contact an arbitrary MTA out on the 'net on tcp/25. Until not so long ago you could connect to any MTA and send your mail if you were allowed to relay[1]. [1] If you look a bit further back you would have been able to relay through any MTA but that was a different era. Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 04:45:51 2008 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 22:45:51 -0600 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> <1218338578.2034.3.camel@kit.dapayne.no-ip.org> <489E68E4.50602@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <489E727F.6020709@ualberta.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sat, 9 Aug 2008, Marc Lanctot wrote: > >> Are you claiming that when I hook up to Rogers I will not allowed to >> send mail from my machine using a Rogers SMTP server via port 25? If >> so.. please, > > Hi Marc. Rogers will allow you to talk to their MTA (requiring > authentication iirc). They will not allow you to contact an arbitrary > MTA out on the 'net on tcp/25. Until not so long ago you could connect > to any MTA and send your mail if you were allowed to relay[1]. Right. I sort of realized that was probably what was meant a few minutes after I sent the mail. And that makes complete sense, of course. Someone brought up net neutrality. It's interesting because I'm against traffic-shaping but in this respect it makes complete sense to disallow outgoing port 25 to arbitrary MTAs. Is it a hindrance to the client's right to a free Internet? Well, yes, technically. Does it cause any major problems? Not sure. The only hindrance I can think of is to someone experimenting with SMTP using telnet for the first time to see how it works. :) > [1] If you look a bit further back you would have been able to relay > through any MTA but that was a different era. It's funny because I've often considered how to "fix" the problems with email. Spamming is one big issue. Email has to be the second-most used service on the Internet, yet it's still mostly insecure and can go across networks in plain text. How is this possible? I'm kind of surprised that the current technology has not been replaced. Is there really no secure way to do what we want to achieve that is spam-free? Does anybody know of a software (preferably that runs as a Thunderbird plugin) which assumes spam if it's never heard from that user before, sends them a standard response with a CAPTCHA asking the sender to respond with the correct letters to be whitelisted? Do these programs typically have to be run on the mail server? Marc -- A computer without Windows is like chocolate cake without mustard. -- Unknown -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 06:34:13 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 06:34:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: SMTP & TLS [was Re:someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ?] In-Reply-To: <489E727F.6020709-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> <1218338578.2034.3.camel@kit.dapayne.no-ip.org> <489E68E4.50602@ualberta.ca> <489E727F.6020709@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Aug 2008, Marc Lanctot wrote: > Someone brought up net neutrality. It's interesting because I'm against > traffic-shaping but in this respect it makes complete sense to disallow > outgoing port 25 to arbitrary MTAs. Is it a hindrance to the client's right > to a free Internet? Well, yes, technically. Does it cause any major problems? I've wrestled with the same philosophical arguments. Technically it is a violation of net neutrality, but perhaps it is one we must accept for practical reasons. > Not sure. The only hindrance I can think of is to someone experimenting with > SMTP using telnet for the first time to see how it works. :) One possible issue relates to reliability. The same argument can be levelled against transparent web proxies: If you are going to make someone use your service then it damn well better work all the time :) > It's funny because I've often considered how to "fix" the problems with Yes so have I. Dan Bernstein came up with an alternative called "Internet Mail 2000" designed to fix many of SMTPs short comings. Dan should get a gold star for the name alone. > email. Spamming is one big issue. Email has to be the second-most used > service on the Internet, yet it's still mostly insecure and can go across > networks in plain text. How is this possible? I'm kind of surprised that the > current technology has not been replaced. Is there really no secure way to do > what we want to achieve that is spam-free? Sure there is. Encryption has been available for use with SMTP for a very long time. Email can be encrypted server to server (TLS), user to user (GPG) or both if you want. TLS with properly signed certs will also allow you to authenticate the originator (organisation or server) of the message which while not actually blocking spam would make it a lot more difficult for spammers to hide. They'd get a few good spamming sessions in and then they'd be blocked because RBLs would just need to keep a list of the fingerprints of spammer certs for clients to check[1]. Commercial CAs normally charge to reissue certs so this would drive up the costs of spamming. Encryption (as part of Public key infrastructure, PKI) is also widely available for DNS (it would completely prevent some of the recent attacks), IP itself, and pretty much everything else. PKI requires effort to setup and manage. Despite mature standards-compliant OSS & commercial encryption software being readily available for all major platforms and most minor ones it has failed to catch on. Did I mention PKI takes effort to setup and manage? :) Over the years I have managed many private root Certificate Authorities (CAs) for organisations (used to generate VPN keys, or whatever). There is effort involved but more than that, it takes discipline and an understanding of the concepts. Despite being a huge fan of encryption in many situations I normally recommend _against_ the use of encrypted filesystems. I am not convinced that most organisations have the level of technological maturity to handle the risks associated with encrypting important filesystems. If you don't have a rock solid backup strategy[2] & DR plan with key escrow then encrypted filesystems are potentially very risky. Or to put it another way: User: "I've lost my private key. Can you recover my encrypted filesystem for me?" Sysadmin answer #1: "No." Sysadmin answer #2: "Come back in 800 years." Ok this turned into a long email :) Rob [1] This is not a revocation. Arranging a revocation would probably be too slow. Additionally, revocation is normally a response to events surrounding the cert itself (it gets lost or compromised) not merely how one uses the cert. [2] Are the backups encrypted too? > Does anybody know of a software (preferably that runs as a Thunderbird > plugin) which assumes spam if it's never heard from that user before, sends > them a standard response with a CAPTCHA asking the sender to respond with the > correct letters to be whitelisted? Do these programs typically have to be run > on the mail server? TDMA is the closest I can think of off the top of my head. It doesn't actually use a CAPTCHA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagged_Message_Delivery_Agent "Challenge/response for SMTP considered harmful" as it can cause backscatter. Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 11:04:13 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 07:04:13 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0808092020m725b2ddeq26a92b16c40ea4c9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0808092020m725b2ddeq26a92b16c40ea4c9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <489ECB2D.6080306@rogers.com> Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 11:16 PM, Robert Brockway > wrote: > [...] (SMTP discussion) So perhaps blocking the ability to send > >> outbound SMTP from home systems by default might be an interesting idea to >> explore. It somewhat goes against the concept of net neutrality but it >> could be unblocked easily enough. >> > > Sorry - can't resist. If "the people" make it an issue and _ask_ for > that as a default, how does it affect the concept of net neutrality? > The whole fight over "Net Neutrality" is about corporations (or ... > shudder... gov't) making decisions for us - without necessarily asking > for consent - isn't it? > > Now, suppose "the people" decide to start blocking certain web sites or... -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 11:05:57 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 07:05:57 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <1218338578.2034.3.camel-2Hi6JQcAGi8AHMTbpXzMAC5qC8QIuHrW@public.gmane.org> References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> <1218338578.2034.3.camel@kit.dapayne.no-ip.org> Message-ID: <489ECB95.80601@rogers.com> David Payne wrote: > On Sun, 2008-08-10 at 03:16 +0000, Robert Brockway wrote: > > >> It wouldn't. I was thinking out loud a bit but it occured to me that most >> people are using webmail these days but their local MS-Win boxes can still >> send outbound email which is probably a lot more likely to be used by a >> Trojan than for legit email. So perhaps blocking the ability to send >> outbound SMTP from home systems by default might be an interesting idea to >> explore. It somewhat goes against the concept of net neutrality but it >> could be unblocked easily enough. >> >> Rob >> > > Hi, > > I have only delt with 3 ISPs. Two from Nova Scotia and one from here > (Rogers). All three blocked port 25 outbound, I thought that was the > norm rather than the exception. > > Do they block out bound or in bound? I thought they didn't want stuff coming in from off net and using their servers as a relay. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 11:17:37 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 07:17:37 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0808092020m725b2ddeq26a92b16c40ea4c9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <489ECE51.1070609@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sat, 9 Aug 2008, Scott Elcomb wrote: > >> Sorry - can't resist. If "the people" make it an issue and _ask_ for >> that as a default, how does it affect the concept of net neutrality? >> The whole fight over "Net Neutrality" is about corporations (or ... >> shudder... gov't) making decisions for us - without necessarily asking >> for consent - isn't it? > > I think there is a broad and a narrow definition. The narrow one is > as you state but the broad definition is that the underlying design of > the Internet should not be predisposed towards certain types of > traffic or make assumptions about how people will use the network in > the future. We shouldn't (for example) tweak TCP network wide to help > HTTP because we can't predict how the network will be used in 20 or 50 > years time. Rather that enhancing specific protocols, QoS may be useful. This way, delay sensitive protocols, such as voice get better service than file transfer. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 11:20:26 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 07:20:26 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <489E68E4.50602-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> <1218338578.2034.3.camel@kit.dapayne.no-ip.org> <489E68E4.50602@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <489ECEFA.1020108@rogers.com> Marc Lanctot wrote: > David Payne wrote: >> On Sun, 2008-08-10 at 03:16 +0000, Robert Brockway wrote: >> >>> It wouldn't. I was thinking out loud a bit but it occured to me >>> that most people are using webmail these days but their local MS-Win >>> boxes can still send outbound email which is probably a lot more >>> likely to be used by a Trojan than for legit email. So perhaps >>> blocking the ability to send outbound SMTP from home systems by >>> default might be an interesting idea to explore. It somewhat goes >>> against the concept of net neutrality but it could be unblocked >>> easily enough. >>> >>> Rob >> >> Hi, >> >> I have only delt with 3 ISPs. Two from Nova Scotia and one from here >> (Rogers). All three blocked port 25 outbound, I thought that was the >> norm rather than the exception. > > Are you claiming that when I hook up to Rogers I will not allowed to > send mail from my machine using a Rogers SMTP server via port 25? If > so.. please, *please* tell me they allow SMTP connections on other > ports or I'll lose it. I'm one of the remaining few (< 10%?) people > who can't stand the latency of web-based mail clients-- I only use > them temporarily when I'm away from a desktop with an email client > setup. As you can tell.. I'm dreading the day that webmail will be > forced on me! > > Do they force SSL or TLS? Do they also force authentication for > outbound mail? If so then great.. the more ISPs do this, the better. > I'm wondering why it wasn't done 10 years ago. > > Marc > As far as I know, it's inbound that filtered from off net and they have another port. They also require authentication for outbound mail, but not ssl or tls. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 11:22:02 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 07:22:02 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <1218341525.2034.9.camel-2Hi6JQcAGi8AHMTbpXzMAC5qC8QIuHrW@public.gmane.org> References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> <1218338578.2034.3.camel@kit.dapayne.no-ip.org> <489E68E4.50602@ualberta.ca> <1218341525.2034.9.camel@kit.dapayne.no-ip.org> Message-ID: <489ECF5A.3090906@rogers.com> David Payne wrote: > On Sat, 2008-08-09 at 22:04 -0600, Marc Lanctot wrote: > >> Are you claiming that when I hook up to Rogers I will not allowed to >> send mail from my machine using a Rogers SMTP server via port 25? >> > > Hi, > > Sorry, I didn't mean that at all. I never tried rogers email, but I'm > sure they allow you to send email through their SMTP server. I just > ment to say that there is no way I am able to contact my SMTP server on > port 25. > > Where is your server and where are you trying to connect from. Perhaps you can do what Rogers does and use a differnt port. They use 587. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 11:28:18 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 07:28:18 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> <1218338578.2034.3.camel@kit.dapayne.no-ip.org> <489E68E4.50602@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <489ED0D2.2010504@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > > [1] If you look a bit further back you would have been able to relay > through any MTA but that was a different era. > Wasn't that about the time that Australia split from Gondwana? ;-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gondwana -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 11:54:01 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 07:54:01 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <489ECEFA.1020108-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> <1218338578.2034.3.camel@kit.dapayne.no-ip.org> <489E68E4.50602@ualberta.ca> <489ECEFA.1020108@rogers.com> Message-ID: <489ED6D9.9000704@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > Marc Lanctot wrote: >> David Payne wrote: >>> On Sun, 2008-08-10 at 03:16 +0000, Robert Brockway wrote: >>> >>>> It wouldn't. I was thinking out loud a bit but it occured to me >>>> that most people are using webmail these days but their local >>>> MS-Win boxes can still send outbound email which is probably a lot >>>> more likely to be used by a Trojan than for legit email. So >>>> perhaps blocking the ability to send outbound SMTP from home >>>> systems by default might be an interesting idea to explore. It >>>> somewhat goes against the concept of net neutrality but it could be >>>> unblocked easily enough. >>>> >>>> Rob >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I have only delt with 3 ISPs. Two from Nova Scotia and one from here >>> (Rogers). All three blocked port 25 outbound, I thought that was the >>> norm rather than the exception. >> >> Are you claiming that when I hook up to Rogers I will not allowed to >> send mail from my machine using a Rogers SMTP server via port 25? If >> so.. please, *please* tell me they allow SMTP connections on other >> ports or I'll lose it. I'm one of the remaining few (< 10%?) people >> who can't stand the latency of web-based mail clients-- I only use >> them temporarily when I'm away from a desktop with an email client >> setup. As you can tell.. I'm dreading the day that webmail will be >> forced on me! >> >> Do they force SSL or TLS? Do they also force authentication for >> outbound mail? If so then great.. the more ISPs do this, the better. >> I'm wondering why it wasn't done 10 years ago. >> >> Marc >> > As far as I know, it's inbound that filtered from off net and they > have another port. They also require authentication for outbound > mail, but not ssl or tls. > > Hmmm... I just did a test and inbound port 25 is not blocked on Rogers. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 18:10:19 2008 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 14:10:19 -0400 Subject: dsl outage? - again this weekend? In-Reply-To: <4895E285.2020705-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080803140011.GA26143@watson-wilson.ca> <4895E285.2020705@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <489F2F0B.5020802@buynet.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Neil Watson wrote: >> Did anyone else suffer a dsl outage starting around 10am on Saturday >> until around 4am Sunday? >> > > Ya, no idea why. Seemed pretty random, too. Some sites were more > responsive then others, but nothing worked well. What ISP are you on, > Sympatico? It seems that DSL in the 416 area is essentially down (86% packet loss) again this weekend - at least from about 11am Saturday. ...I hope this is not to be a regular thing. I'm recently added DSL from Teksavvy whose teck support is terrific but MaBell seems to doing something. Herb Richter... P.S. can't believe I'd be happy that I still have Rogers cable ;-| -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 19:52:30 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:52:30 -0400 Subject: dsl outage? - again this weekend? In-Reply-To: <489F2F0B.5020802-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080803140011.GA26143@watson-wilson.ca> <4895E285.2020705@alteeve.com> <489F2F0B.5020802@buynet.com> Message-ID: <489F46FE.5060403@alteeve.com> Herb Richter wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> Neil Watson wrote: >>> Did anyone else suffer a dsl outage starting around 10am on Saturday >>> until around 4am Sunday? >>> >> >> Ya, no idea why. Seemed pretty random, too. Some sites were more >> responsive then others, but nothing worked well. What ISP are you on, >> Sympatico? > > It seems that DSL in the 416 area is essentially down (86% packet loss) > again this weekend - at least from about 11am Saturday. ...I hope this > is not to be a regular thing. > > I'm recently added DSL from Teksavvy whose teck support is terrific but > MaBell seems to doing something. > > Herb Richter... > > P.S. can't believe I'd be happy that I still have Rogers cable ;-| Yeah, I was all but down again... I've been monitoring my sync rate and over the weekend the downstream went to heck... My speed dropped to 320kbps DOWN with a noise ration of 29db (out of 31, at worst), but the up was fine at 800kbps. I wrote it off as the storm, but it also seems that every time there is a storm, it goes to heck. What I am wondering is, given that the signal up is fine, if Bell could be doing something to try and say "hey, see, you connection is going to pot because of those dirty ptp'ers.". If that was so though, the up would be equally messed up. Then again, never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence, or something like that. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vertaxis-fLiV7HKGQdk at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 21:22:10 2008 From: vertaxis-fLiV7HKGQdk at public.gmane.org (vertaxis) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:22:10 -0400 Subject: dsl outage? - again this weekend? In-Reply-To: <489F46FE.5060403-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080803140011.GA26143@watson-wilson.ca> <4895E285.2020705@alteeve.com> <489F2F0B.5020802@buynet.com> <489F46FE.5060403@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <489F5C02.7090907@vif.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Herb Richter wrote: >> Madison Kelly wrote: >>> Neil Watson wrote: >>>> Did anyone else suffer a dsl outage starting around 10am on Saturday >>>> until around 4am Sunday? >>>> >>> >>> Ya, no idea why. Seemed pretty random, too. Some sites were more >>> responsive then others, but nothing worked well. What ISP are you >>> on, Sympatico? >> >> It seems that DSL in the 416 area is essentially down (86% packet >> loss) again this weekend - at least from about 11am Saturday. ...I >> hope this is not to be a regular thing. >> >> I'm recently added DSL from Teksavvy whose teck support is terrific >> but MaBell seems to doing something. >> >> Herb Richter... >> >> P.S. can't believe I'd be happy that I still have Rogers cable ;-| > > Yeah, I was all but down again... I've been monitoring my sync rate > and over the weekend the downstream went to heck... My speed dropped > to 320kbps DOWN with a noise ration of 29db (out of 31, at worst), but > the up was fine at 800kbps. I wrote it off as the storm, but it also > seems that every time there is a storm, it goes to heck. > > What I am wondering is, given that the signal up is fine, if Bell > could be doing something to try and say "hey, see, you connection is > going to pot because of those dirty ptp'ers.". If that was so though, > the up would be equally messed up. > > Then again, never attribute to malice what can be attributed to > incompetence, or something like that. > > Madi I'm finding that all my encrypted traffic is getting hit badly. Mail and web are slower, but still usable. V. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 22:03:11 2008 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:03:11 -0400 Subject: OT: Help Wiring Ethernet Message-ID: <1AEFAB47-0379-464A-B3CD-49FD02CD15F1@gmail.com> Hi there! I've just moved into a new home. Now I'm trying to run Ethernet into my office. It's Cat 5e purchased at Home Depot, $25 for a roll of 100m. I also purchased a wire cutting and crimping tool, which came with a selection of RJ-45 and RJ-15 jacks. Finally, I purchased two Cat 5e jacks, which will be mounted in a matching wall plate. Sounds good, but the trick's in the implementation... On one end of my initial run, I've got the (female) jack. It's a Leviton Multi-Use (data, phone) Cat 5e Jack that has an 8-port terminal on the back. I strip and split out the ethernet to the eight wires, and using the included termination tool, snap them into the connectors. On the other end, I have a standard RJ-45 plug (male). This is a lot harder to wire: you have to manually line up the wires in the correct order, feed them into the plug, and then crimp it with the crimping tool. It's hard to tell if you have got the wires in the right order, and whether they've been crimped so the wires are in contact with the terminal. There's also the issue of which wiring scheme to use. T568A is recommended by a site I visited, whereas T568B is used only by AT&T for some reason. So I tried the "A" layout, didn't get it to work, and realized that every Ethernet cable I have is wired using the "B" spec. So, after re-wiring my cable, I plugged it in and.... NOTHING! I don't have a continuity tester. I don't know if I made an error on the jack end, plug end, or both. My big problem is I don't know what to try next. Hence my message to this list. There's gotta be a crowd of you here who do this all the time. Can you provide advice on what to look at? Let me know if my methodology is flawed? What's my next step? Thanks, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 23:33:00 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 19:33:00 -0400 Subject: OT: Help Wiring Ethernet In-Reply-To: <1AEFAB47-0379-464A-B3CD-49FD02CD15F1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1AEFAB47-0379-464A-B3CD-49FD02CD15F1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <489F7AAC.50400@alteeve.com> Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi there! > I've just moved into a new home. Now I'm trying to run Ethernet into my > office. It's Cat 5e purchased at Home Depot, $25 for a roll of 100m. I > also purchased a wire cutting and crimping tool, which came with a > selection of RJ-45 and RJ-15 jacks. Finally, I purchased two Cat 5e > jacks, which will be mounted in a matching wall plate. Sounds good, but > the trick's in the implementation... > > On one end of my initial run, I've got the (female) jack. It's a Leviton > Multi-Use (data, phone) Cat 5e Jack that has an 8-port terminal on the > back. I strip and split out the ethernet to the eight wires, and using > the included termination tool, snap them into the connectors. > > On the other end, I have a standard RJ-45 plug (male). This is a lot > harder to wire: you have to manually line up the wires in the correct > order, feed them into the plug, and then crimp it with the crimping > tool. It's hard to tell if you have got the wires in the right order, > and whether they've been crimped so the wires are in contact with the > terminal. > > There's also the issue of which wiring scheme to use. T568A is > recommended by a site I visited, whereas T568B is used only by AT&T for > some reason. So I tried the "A" layout, didn't get it to work, and > realized that every Ethernet cable I have is wired using the "B" spec. > > So, after re-wiring my cable, I plugged it in and.... NOTHING! > > I don't have a continuity tester. I don't know if I made an error on the > jack end, plug end, or both. My big problem is I don't know what to try > next. Hence my message to this list. There's gotta be a crowd of you > here who do this all the time. Can you provide advice on what to look > at? Let me know if my methodology is flawed? What's my next step? > > Thanks, > Aaron. This may help: http://www.duxcw.com/faq/network/diff568ab.htm Notice the colour pairing to pin mapping. to test pairs, take a blank RJ45 cap and put four loops of wire between pins 1/3, 2/6, 4/5 and 7/8. Then take a battery and an LED (steal the one from your computer case's power LED if needed) and wire-up the LED to the battery and a spare wire from the other side of the battery run another loose wire. Make sure you get the polarity right by touching the wire from the battery to the wire from the LED and see if it lights. If it does, bingo, you have a continuity tester. Now use it to check that the pairs work. Failing this, I am not sure what to suggest. If you're still stuck, let me know. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 00:25:16 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 20:25:16 -0400 Subject: dsl outage? - again this weekend? In-Reply-To: <489F2F0B.5020802-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080803140011.GA26143@watson-wilson.ca> <4895E285.2020705@alteeve.com> <489F2F0B.5020802@buynet.com> Message-ID: <489F86EC.6040702@utoronto.ca> Herb Richter wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> Neil Watson wrote: >>> Did anyone else suffer a dsl outage starting around 10am on Saturday >>> until around 4am Sunday? >>> >> >> Ya, no idea why. Seemed pretty random, too. Some sites were more >> responsive then others, but nothing worked well. What ISP are you on, >> Sympatico? > > It seems that DSL in the 416 area is essentially down (86% packet loss) > again this weekend - at least from about 11am Saturday. ...I hope this > is not to be a regular thing. > > I'm recently added DSL from Teksavvy whose teck support is terrific but > MaBell seems to doing something. Was seeing this too, funny how when I finished work for the weekend around 4pm today things magically started working and I can maintain an ssh connection for more than a few minutes, sigh.. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 00:27:49 2008 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 20:27:49 -0400 Subject: GRUB boot loader / Debian Lenny / GRUB GRUB GRUB GRUB Message-ID: Hi folks, Last week I set up an NFS server on an old P400 box, using a pair of 320G drives and an old 8G drive as the system drive. Lenny installed, and I successfully ran mdadm on the big drives and then mkfs to build a file system on them. I mounted the mirrored drives, made an /export directory, set up /etc/exports to export a directory and mounted that directory from my workstation -- everything worked fine (if a little slowly). Life was good. On Friday, there was a power cut, and now when the system boots I don't get the GRUB menu, I get screenfuls of GRUB GRUB GRUB GRUB going on forever (I had the same problem when trying to install DmanSmallLinux -- I gave up on that and moved to Lenny, which worked better). This GRUB GRUB GRUB is tiring and not really that informative. I've talked with folks on #grub and received the advice to 'just install GRUB2' using a chroot jail. I could do that, I suppose, but I'd prefer to understand a) what's going on (that is, what error condition is GRUB GRUB GRUB reporting?); and b) why GRUB2 will make this problem go away. The current version of GRUB is 0.97. Drives are: primary IDE: 320G / CD; secondary IDE: 8G / 320G, so the 8G system drive is known by the BIOS as D:, and by GRUB as /dev/hdc. The device.map is (hd0) /dev/hda / (hd1) /dev/hdc / (hd2) /dev/hdd; and menu.lst contains a regular and a single user entry with root / (hd1,0). I tried changing the root entry to (hd1,1) since I thought Linux was on the second partition, but it's not. I just wish there was some way I could find out what error GRUB is encountering so that I could address it. Thoughts? Thanks, -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamesr-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 00:43:11 2008 From: jamesr-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jim Robinson) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 20:43:11 -0400 Subject: OT: Help Wiring Ethernet In-Reply-To: <1AEFAB47-0379-464A-B3CD-49FD02CD15F1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1AEFAB47-0379-464A-B3CD-49FD02CD15F1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <489F8B1F.7030905@idirect.com> H Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi there! > I've just moved into a new home. Now I'm trying to run Ethernet into my > office. It's Cat 5e purchased at Home Depot, $25 for a roll of 100m. I > also purchased a wire cutting and crimping tool, which came with a > selection of RJ-45 and RJ-15 jacks. Finally, I purchased two Cat 5e > jacks, which will be mounted in a matching wall plate. Sounds good, but > the trick's in the implementation... > > On one end of my initial run, I've got the (female) jack. It's a Leviton > Multi-Use (data, phone) Cat 5e Jack that has an 8-port terminal on the > back. I strip and split out the ethernet to the eight wires, and using > the included termination tool, snap them into the connectors. > > On the other end, I have a standard RJ-45 plug (male). This is a lot > harder to wire: you have to manually line up the wires in the correct > order, feed them into the plug, and then crimp it with the crimping > tool. It's hard to tell if you have got the wires in the right order, > and whether they've been crimped so the wires are in contact with the > terminal. > > There's also the issue of which wiring scheme to use. T568A is > recommended by a site I visited, whereas T568B is used only by AT&T for > some reason. So I tried the "A" layout, didn't get it to work, and > realized that every Ethernet cable I have is wired using the "B" spec. > > So, after re-wiring my cable, I plugged it in and.... NOTHING! > > I don't have a continuity tester. I don't know if I made an error on the > jack end, plug end, or both. My big problem is I don't know what to try > next. Hence my message to this list. There's gotta be a crowd of you > here who do this all the time. Can you provide advice on what to look > at? Let me know if my methodology is flawed? What's my next step? > > Thanks, > Aaron. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Hi Aaron, I have used a multimeter on the ohms range to follow through the wires. Although I are purchased recently a tester from Sayal electronics. If I can find there are several references making cables, including crossover cables. I always seem to have more problems with sockets but at least you can redo them several times. Best Wishes Jim R. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 01:04:40 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 21:04:40 -0400 Subject: OT: Help Wiring Ethernet In-Reply-To: <1AEFAB47-0379-464A-B3CD-49FD02CD15F1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1AEFAB47-0379-464A-B3CD-49FD02CD15F1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <489F9028.3070200@rogers.com> Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi there! > I've just moved into a new home. Now I'm trying to run Ethernet into > my office. It's Cat 5e purchased at Home Depot, $25 for a roll of > 100m. I also purchased a wire cutting and crimping tool, which came > with a selection of RJ-45 and RJ-15 jacks. Finally, I purchased two > Cat 5e jacks, which will be mounted in a matching wall plate. Sounds > good, but the trick's in the implementation... > > On one end of my initial run, I've got the (female) jack. It's a > Leviton Multi-Use (data, phone) Cat 5e Jack that has an 8-port > terminal on the back. I strip and split out the ethernet to the eight > wires, and using the included termination tool, snap them into the > connectors. > > On the other end, I have a standard RJ-45 plug (male). This is a lot > harder to wire: you have to manually line up the wires in the correct > order, feed them into the plug, and then crimp it with the crimping > tool. It's hard to tell if you have got the wires in the right order, > and whether they've been crimped so the wires are in contact with the > terminal. > > There's also the issue of which wiring scheme to use. T568A is > recommended by a site I visited, whereas T568B is used only by AT&T > for some reason. So I tried the "A" layout, didn't get it to work, and > realized that every Ethernet cable I have is wired using the "B" spec. > > So, after re-wiring my cable, I plugged it in and.... NOTHING! > > I don't have a continuity tester. I don't know if I made an error on > the jack end, plug end, or both. My big problem is I don't know what > to try next. Hence my message to this list. There's gotta be a crowd > of you here who do this all the time. Can you provide advice on what > to look at? Let me know if my methodology is flawed? What's my next step? > It doesn't matter whether you use A or B, so long as you use the same at both ends of the cable. If you mix them, you'll wind up with a crossover cable. In fact, as far as the signal goes, the actual wire colour is irrelevant, so long as proper pairing is maintained. Just choose A or B as you wish and stick with it. One common problem with the plugs is ensuring the wires are fully into the plug. You can determine this by closely examining the plug, to verify all the wires are pushed fully in. A cable tester is very handy for this sort of thing. I don't know if they still have them, but TigerDirect had a pocket sized tester for about $15, a couple of years ago. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 01:07:44 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 21:07:44 -0400 Subject: OT: Help Wiring Ethernet In-Reply-To: <489F7AAC.50400-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1AEFAB47-0379-464A-B3CD-49FD02CD15F1@gmail.com> <489F7AAC.50400@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <489F90E0.7030400@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > > pins 1/3, 2/6, 4/5 and 7/8. Shouldn't that be 1/2, 3/6... ? -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 01:24:30 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 21:24:30 -0400 Subject: OT: Help Wiring Ethernet In-Reply-To: <489F90E0.7030400-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1AEFAB47-0379-464A-B3CD-49FD02CD15F1@gmail.com> <489F7AAC.50400@alteeve.com> <489F90E0.7030400@rogers.com> Message-ID: <489F94CE.6030507@alteeve.com> James Knott wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> >> pins 1/3, 2/6, 4/5 and 7/8. > Shouldn't that be 1/2, 3/6... ? Blast! ... *hangs head in shame and walks away* Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 03:09:16 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 23:09:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SMTP & TLS [was Re:someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ?] In-Reply-To: References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> <1218338578.2034.3.camel@kit.dapayne.no-ip.org> <489E68E4.50602@ualberta.ca> <489E727F.6020709@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: | From: Robert Brockway | > Someone brought up net neutrality. It's interesting because I'm against | > traffic-shaping but in this respect it makes complete sense to disallow | > outgoing port 25 to arbitrary MTAs. Is it a hindrance to the client's right | > to a free Internet? Well, yes, technically. Does it cause any major | > problems? | | I've wrestled with the same philosophical arguments. Technically it is a | violation of net neutrality, but perhaps it is one we must accept for | practical reasons. The right tradeoff: customer has the right to use port 25 but can voluntarilly delegate the authority to block it to the ISP. It is even reasonable to default to blocking (with some kind of disclosure) until the customer requests a change. This is no compromise with freedom and it works. That's what my former ISP did. It transfered my line to my current ISP and the non-blocking continued but I don't know my current ISP's actual policy. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 14:45:02 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:45:02 -0400 Subject: Suggest a PCMCIA wireless card? Message-ID: <48A0506E.8090600@alteeve.com> Okay, I suspect my linksys card is indeed dead. Anyone have any recommendations for a decent b/g wireless card that works well in Linux? Preferably something that *doesn't* need ndiswrapper, if possible... Thanks! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 14:56:32 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:56:32 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <489ED6D9.9000704-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> <1218338578.2034.3.camel@kit.dapayne.no-ip.org> <489E68E4.50602@ualberta.ca> <489ECEFA.1020108@rogers.com> <489ED6D9.9000704@rogers.com> Message-ID: <48A05320.2090105@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> Marc Lanctot wrote: >>> >>> Do they force SSL or TLS? Do they also force authentication for >>> outbound mail? If so then great.. the more ISPs do this, the better. >>> I'm wondering why it wasn't done 10 years ago. >>> >>> Marc >>> >> As far as I know, it's inbound that filtered from off net and they >> have another port. They also require authentication for outbound >> mail, but not ssl or tls. >> >> > Hmmm... I just did a test and inbound port 25 is not blocked on Rogers. > > > I just did some testing at work and found Sympatico blocks incoming port 25. Because of this, I cannot test from Rogers to see if they block outgoing port 25. Sympatico also blocks outgoing port 25. I verified this by running nmap against my home network and also with the port scan at www.grc.com. Nmap (on Sympatico) can't see port 25, but is can see ssh, though www.grc.com can see both. The only question remaining is does Rogers block outgoing port 25. I don't have the means to test that. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 15:08:51 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:08:51 -0400 Subject: GRUB boot loader / Debian Lenny / GRUB GRUB GRUB GRUB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3a97ef0808110808ldd1f475tc8dbb88924091c8e@mail.gmail.com> Did you install GRUB to /dev/hda1 (bootable partition) or /dev/hda (MBR)? It's been awhile since I've had this message myself, but I believe that I once encountered it when I had GRUB on both the boot-partition and the MBR. Can you manage to get into the GRUB console by pushing "E" or "ESC"? On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Alex Beamish wrote: > Hi folks, > > Last week I set up an NFS server on an old P400 box, using a pair of > 320G drives and an old 8G drive as the system drive. Lenny installed, > and I successfully ran mdadm on the big drives and then mkfs to build > a file system on them. I mounted the mirrored drives, made an /export > directory, set up /etc/exports to export a directory and mounted that > directory from my workstation -- everything worked fine (if a little > slowly). Life was good. > > On Friday, there was a power cut, and now when the system boots I > don't get the GRUB menu, I get screenfuls of GRUB GRUB GRUB GRUB going > on forever (I had the same problem when trying to install > DmanSmallLinux -- I gave up on that and moved to Lenny, which worked > better). This GRUB GRUB GRUB is tiring and not really that > informative. > > I've talked with folks on #grub and received the advice to 'just > install GRUB2' using a chroot jail. I could do that, I suppose, but > I'd prefer to understand a) what's going on (that is, what error > condition is GRUB GRUB GRUB reporting?); and b) why GRUB2 will make > this problem go away. The current version of GRUB is 0.97. > > Drives are: primary IDE: 320G / CD; secondary IDE: 8G / 320G, so the > 8G system drive is known by the BIOS as D:, and by GRUB as /dev/hdc. > The device.map is (hd0) /dev/hda / (hd1) /dev/hdc / (hd2) /dev/hdd; > and menu.lst contains a regular and a single user entry with root / > (hd1,0). I tried changing the root entry to (hd1,1) since I thought > Linux was on the second partition, but it's not. > > I just wish there was some way I could find out what error GRUB is > encountering so that I could address it. Thoughts? > > Thanks, > > -- > Alex Beamish > Toronto, Ontario > aka talexb > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 15:09:01 2008 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:09:01 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <48A05320.2090105-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> <1218338578.2034.3.camel@kit.dapayne.no-ip.org> <489E68E4.50602@ualberta.ca> <489ECEFA.1020108@rogers.com> <489ED6D9.9000704@rogers.com> <48A05320.2090105@rogers.com> Message-ID: <53D858DC-3468-4DA1-BBE6-4A7C16F1D452@visibleassets.com> On 11-Aug-08, at 10:56 AM, James Knott wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> James Knott wrote: >>> Marc Lanctot wrote: > >>>> >>>> Do they force SSL or TLS? Do they also force authentication for >>>> outbound mail? If so then great.. the more ISPs do this, the >>>> better. I'm wondering why it wasn't done 10 years ago. >>>> >>>> Marc >>>> >>> As far as I know, it's inbound that filtered from off net and they >>> have another port. They also require authentication for outbound >>> mail, but not ssl or tls. >>> >>> >> Hmmm... I just did a test and inbound port 25 is not blocked on >> Rogers. > > I just did some testing at work and found Sympatico blocks incoming > port 25. Because of this, I cannot test from Rogers to see if they > block outgoing port 25. Sympatico also blocks outgoing port 25. I > verified this by running nmap against my home network and also with > the port scan at www.grc.com. Nmap (on Sympatico) can't see port > 25, but is can see ssh, though www.grc.com can see both. The only > question remaining is does Rogers block outgoing port 25. I don't > have the means to test that. > Rogers blocks port 25 to any other smtp server but theirs. In other words if you want to use your own smtp server you won't get a connection. I typically just redirect another port on my server to port 25 using iptables. --dc-- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 15:20:31 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:20:31 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <53D858DC-3468-4DA1-BBE6-4A7C16F1D452-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> <1218338578.2034.3.camel@kit.dapayne.no-ip.org> <489E68E4.50602@ualberta.ca> <489ECEFA.1020108@rogers.com> <489ED6D9.9000704@rogers.com> <48A05320.2090105@rogers.com> <53D858DC-3468-4DA1-BBE6-4A7C16F1D452@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <48A058BF.4010003@rogers.com> Dave Cramer wrote: mmm... I just did a test and inbound port 25 is not blocked on Rogers. >> >> I just did some testing at work and found Sympatico blocks incoming >> port 25. Because of this, I cannot test from Rogers to see if they >> block outgoing port 25. Sympatico also blocks outgoing port 25. I >> verified this by running nmap against my home network and also with >> the port scan at www.grc.com. Nmap (on Sympatico) can't see port 25, >> but is can see ssh, though www.grc.com can see both. The only >> question remaining is does Rogers block outgoing port 25. I don't >> have the means to test that. >> > Rogers blocks port 25 to any other smtp server but theirs. In other > words if you want to use your own smtp server you won't get a > connection. I typically just redirect another port on my server to port > 25 using iptables. Is that actually Rogers blocking that? Or the other network blocking inbound port 25. As I mentioned above, they don't block inbound, but Sympatico blocks both directions. It would be nice to set up a system that does not block inbound and verify with www.grc.com that it's visable and then try running nmap from on the Rogers network. I'm not aware of any unblocked port 25 to test with, but if someone has an unblocked SMTP server running on another ISP, I'd be happy to try nmap against it. It doesn't even have to be an SMTP server. Just an open port 25 in your firewall. Both www.grc.com and nmap will show a closed, rather than blocked port in that instance. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 15:24:31 2008 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:24:31 -0400 Subject: someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ? In-Reply-To: <48A058BF.4010003-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> <1218338578.2034.3.camel@kit.dapayne.no-ip.org> <489E68E4.50602@ualberta.ca> <489ECEFA.1020108@rogers.com> <489ED6D9.9000704@rogers.com> <48A05320.2090105@rogers.com> <53D858DC-3468-4DA1-BBE6-4A7C16F1D452@visibleassets.com> <48A058BF.4010003@rogers.com> Message-ID: <157A262A-224E-47E7-9EE2-3B24370A29A9@visibleassets.com> On 11-Aug-08, at 11:20 AM, James Knott wrote: > Dave Cramer wrote: > mmm... I just did a test and inbound port 25 is not blocked on > Rogers. >>> >>> I just did some testing at work and found Sympatico blocks >>> incoming port 25. Because of this, I cannot test from Rogers to >>> see if they block outgoing port 25. Sympatico also blocks >>> outgoing port 25. I verified this by running nmap against my home >>> network and also with the port scan at www.grc.com. Nmap (on >>> Sympatico) can't see port 25, but is can see ssh, though >>> www.grc.com can see both. The only question remaining is does >>> Rogers block outgoing port 25. I don't have the means to test that. >>> >> Rogers blocks port 25 to any other smtp server but theirs. In other >> words if you want to use your own smtp server you won't get a >> connection. I typically just redirect another port on my server to >> port 25 using iptables. > > Is that actually Rogers blocking that? Or the other network > blocking inbound port 25. As I mentioned above, they don't block > inbound, but Sympatico blocks both directions. Well the rationale is that a hacked machine will attempt to send email directly to the users final smtp server. So blocking any other destinations effectively cuts down on spam generation. It makes sense for the masses, just not the select few who actually know what they are doing. --dc-- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 15:24:37 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:24:37 -0400 Subject: PS3 Ubuntu 8.04 Boot Freezes after Upgrade Message-ID: <48A059B5.4010100@rogers.com> So I installed 7.04 on my PS3 and got over the documented problems. When I was all set, I used update manger and it took me through an upgrade to 8.04. All seemed to go well, but the reboot did not finish. I did a cold boot and got kboot. The kernel loaded with success. Then I get Booting system .... and it hangs here. I did a cold boot and went into sh. I tried sudo apt-get update and received this error: sudo: error while loading shared libraries: libpam.so.0: cannot open shared file object file: No such file or directory. I am unsure what to try next. Suggestions appreciated! Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 15:38:20 2008 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:38:20 -0400 Subject: GRUB boot loader / Debian Lenny / GRUB GRUB GRUB GRUB In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0808110808ldd1f475tc8dbb88924091c8e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0808110808ldd1f475tc8dbb88924091c8e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Did you install GRUB to /dev/hda1 (bootable partition) or /dev/hda (MBR)? Nope -- it's installed on hdc because of how I've set my drives up (see original message), but I figured GRUB would be able to try hda and move on to hdc, then hdb and finally hdd. Does GRUB demand that it boot from hda? I guess I can move the ribbon cables around if necessary, but that seems a little inflexible to me. > It's been awhile since I've had this message myself, but I believe > that I once encountered it when I had GRUB on both the boot-partition > and the MBR. > > Can you manage to get into the GRUB console by pushing "E" or "ESC"? Mmmm .. interesting. I'll definitely try that when I get home. Thanks for the suggestions! Alex -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 15:45:50 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:45:50 -0400 Subject: Suggest a PCMCIA wireless card? In-Reply-To: <48A0506E.8090600-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48A0506E.8090600@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Madi, I would advice you to drop in one of the good computer shops around you and check what they have. Then pick the product number and as they will likely provide internet access, check where the chipset comes from. I personally prefer the atheros chipset as they are perfectly supported - they are the only two vendors that provide Linux hacker, the other being Intel. Another good thing about them is they allow the card to be an AP, if you feel like converting your laptop to a wireless router. I have one of those cards and it works perfectly. I don't know the product number, but I know its from atheros. I can furnish you with more data later. Regards, William 2008/8/11 Madison Kelly : > Okay, I suspect my linksys card is indeed dead. Anyone have any > recommendations for a decent b/g wireless card that works well in Linux? > Preferably something that *doesn't* need ndiswrapper, if possible... > > Thanks! > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 18:40:56 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:40:56 -0400 Subject: SMTP & TLS [was Re:someone is using my email address to spam, is there a way to stop this ?] In-Reply-To: References: <6EFA50A9-6770-4F2B-B9AD-D9565BE8CA2B@visibleassets.com> <489E3177.3080903@rogers.com> <489E3E55.7020109@rogers.com> <489E432C.6020301@rogers.com> <1218338578.2034.3.camel@kit.dapayne.no-ip.org> <489E68E4.50602@ualberta.ca> <489E727F.6020709@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <1218480056.6389.9.camel@jaguar-hardy> On Sun, 2008-08-10 at 06:34 +0000, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sat, 9 Aug 2008, Marc Lanctot wrote: [snip] > > Not sure. The only hindrance I can think of is to someone experimenting with > > SMTP using telnet for the first time to see how it works. :) > > One possible issue relates to reliability. The same argument can be > levelled against transparent web proxies: If you are going to make someone > use your service then it damn well better work all the time :) That describes my situation. For no known reason, my ISP rejects my outbound mail. Ages ago, they asked for 48 hours to look into the problem. Sigh! Of course, if they block port 25 elsewhere, it would encourage me either to get on the phone (yes, phone; I have never received a reponse to any e-mail not preceded by a phone call) and bug their tech support or to find myself a new ISP. Of course, I *should* be doing one of these anyway. Thanks you, all, for letting me vent. Cheers, Terry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 21:27:17 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 17:27:17 -0400 Subject: GRUB boot loader / Debian Lenny / GRUB GRUB GRUB GRUB In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0808110808ldd1f475tc8dbb88924091c8e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080811212717.GA12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:38:20AM -0400, Alex Beamish wrote: > Nope -- it's installed on hdc because of how I've set my drives up > (see original message), but I figured GRUB would be able to try hda > and move on to hdc, then hdb and finally hdd. Does GRUB demand that it > boot from hda? I guess I can move the ribbon cables around if > necessary, but that seems a little inflexible to me. No GRUB has no say in it, the BIOS picks which MBR to boot from. GRUB is installed either in the MBR of which ever drive the BIOS wants to boot from, or a generic boot from active partition MBR is installed and GRUB is installed on the active partition of the boot drive. Multiple drives tends to be confusing though if you don't install the boot loader on the first one. However which is first does come down to what the BIOS thinks is the first drive. Being named hda in linux means nothing more than being the first drive on the first controller linux loaded a driver for. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 21:31:02 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 17:31:02 -0400 Subject: Suggest a PCMCIA wireless card? In-Reply-To: <48A0506E.8090600-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48A0506E.8090600@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20080811213102.GB12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:45:02AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Okay, I suspect my linksys card is indeed dead. Anyone have any > recommendations for a decent b/g wireless card that works well in Linux? > Preferably something that *doesn't* need ndiswrapper, if possible... In general ralink based cards seem to be supported. There are drivers in the kernel for the rt2500/rt61 and the like after all. http://ralink.rapla.net/ has a decent list of such devices. Of course the usual issue of idiot companies using the same model name for completely different and incompatible designs is always an issue, so be careful. I have a linksys PCI WMP54G v4 myself which is a ralink 2500, while my sister has the same thing in a v4.1 which is a ralink 2561 (different driver and design) and there was no way to tell from the outside of the box that they were different and I was trying to get specific cards down to checking the FCC number on the box and still managed to get different versions. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 21:32:44 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 17:32:44 -0400 Subject: Suggest a PCMCIA wireless card? In-Reply-To: References: <48A0506E.8090600@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20080811213244.GC12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:45:50AM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > I would advice you to drop in one of the good computer shops around > you and check what they have. Then pick the product number and as they > will likely provide internet access, check where the chipset comes > from. I personally prefer the atheros chipset as they are perfectly > supported - they are the only two vendors that provide Linux hacker, > the other being Intel. Another good thing about them is they allow the > card to be an AP, if you feel like converting your laptop to a > wireless router. We have a thinkpad at work with an ath5k chip in it. I can't get it to work yet. The driver sees it and loads and always just returns an error about being unable to find the PHY. So atheros is promising but so far I have never personally seen one actually work yet. The thinkpads with intel 4965s on the other hand just work, but you can't seem to get those as standalone cards. > I have one of those cards and it works perfectly. I don't know the > product number, but I know its from atheros. I can furnish you with > more data later. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 22:04:09 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 18:04:09 -0400 Subject: Suggest a PCMCIA wireless card? In-Reply-To: <48A0506E.8090600-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48A0506E.8090600@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 8/11/08, Madison Kelly wrote: > Okay, I suspect my linksys card is indeed dead. Anyone have any > recommendations for a decent b/g wireless card that works well in Linux? > Preferably something that *doesn't* need ndiswrapper, if possible... > > Thanks! > > Madi Before getting a laptop with built in wireless I got and was basicly happy with an SMC SMCWCB-G wireless card. Supported by the Atheros drivers, see: madwifi.org When looking at hardware compatible with the madwifi folks do pay careful attention to the model and revsion number. My first 802.11g device was a TRENDnet TEW-424UB WiFi USB dongle (I thought, hey I could use it with laptop and desktop). Before purchase I had checked to make sure the TEW-424UB was supported under Linux (the web pages I saw said it was). Turned out there is more than one version of the TEW-424UB, Version 1 well supported under Linux, internally version 2 is totally different and ... well, sort of supported under ndiswrapper... The version number can be critical, sigh... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 23:59:03 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 19:59:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Suggest a PCMCIA wireless card? In-Reply-To: References: <48A0506E.8090600@alteeve.com> Message-ID: | From: William Muriithi | I personally prefer the atheros chipset as they are perfectly | supported - they are the only two vendors that provide Linux hacker, | the other being Intel. Another good thing about them is they allow the | card to be an AP, if you feel like converting your laptop to a | wireless router. What a crapshoot. A year ago, on my son's new Acer notebook, I had trouble getting the madwifi driver going for the built-in wireless. It used the (non-open) HAL. The HAL was giving a cryptic error code to the driver and it was passing the hot potato to me. Then I switched to NDIS wrapper. It didn't work either. I talked to the author on IRC and he logged onto the notebook and fixed it! The problem was that the notebook is multicore and the driver had never been tested on an MP system. The fix went into the project CVS. Talk about service! NDIS wrapper is not a great solution but it was the only solution. Recent releases of Ubuntu support the card with no tweaking. I don't even know if it is using HAL or OpenHAL. I have a notebook with a ralink wireless interface. It worked out of the box a couple of years ago. But certain functionality was missing that kismet wanted to use. (Some?) Broadcom wireless interfaces now work due to reverse engineering. But only in STA mode (i.e. as clients). Unfortunately, Broadcom interfaces are very common in wireless routers where modes other than STA are needed. Grrr. As others have said, Intel seems to be a good choice, but they don't seem to make add-on cards. MiniPCI cards maybe. Stupid laptop manufacturers often have "whitelists" of approved minipci cards in their BIOSes. So replacing the miniPCI card with one that has Linux support may not work. This is true of at least some HP notebooks (i.e. the one I own) and I think it is true of some ThinkPads. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 03:19:57 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 23:19:57 -0400 Subject: CD-Rom Drive Not Mounting Message-ID: <48A1015D.2020708@rogers.com> I am almost up and running with Linux on my PS3. I had some struggles with the install but have solved all issues but one. I can't get the CD-ROM to work. I installed desktop 7.10 Ubuntu from a CD so I am sure the drive works, and it is a configuration issue. Here is fstab: # /etc/fstab: static file system information. # # proc /proc proc defaults 0 0 # /dev/ps3da2 UUID=281151d3-dc67-4e57-b918-0c9371ff5dea / ext3 defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1 # /dev/ps3da3 UUID=d528b54e-0d48-03b8-d42e-75a927573c0f none swap sw 0 0 /dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom udf,iso9660 user,noauto,ro,exec 0 0 I searched the net and added the ro, which was not part of the original file created by the install. Here is mount: stephen at stephen-desktop:~$ mount /dev/ps3da2 on / type ext3 (rw,errors=remount-ro) proc on /proc type proc (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev) /sys on /sys type sysfs (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev) varrun on /var/run type tmpfs (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev,mode=0755) varlock on /var/lock type tmpfs (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev,mode=1777) udev on /dev type tmpfs (rw,mode=0755) devshm on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw) devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,gid=5,mode=620) securityfs on /sys/kernel/security type securityfs (rw) So I see it is not mounted, but I do not understand why. I run sudo mount -a in the terminal and it does no good. I cannot see anything relevant in the system logs or messages. I am stumped. Any suggestions? Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 12:35:26 2008 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (Teddy) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:35:26 -0400 Subject: DOS SYN attack on a large network Message-ID: <48A1838E.5050208@tmis.ca> We have a few hundred Linux boxes. We do not have root access to these client boxes. (So I cannot secure or "fix them up") Once in a while, we get a DOS or SYN or some other type of attack on our network, that can down the entire network. We have our switches configured correctly. (reverifying again) One thing I do notice of course is the offending box, starts making a tremendous amount of bandwidth. (100Mbits/sec) I would like to monitor this, perhaps like: 1. If traffic on switch >=30 Mbits for 600 seconds then fire off an email 2. Login to the network to fix it (hopefully before network gets saturated) I have cacti/ntop/nagios and other tools. What tool would be best suited for this? Is there a better way, than just waiting for a DOS SYN attack to occur? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 15:03:47 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:03:47 -0400 Subject: DOS SYN attack on a large network In-Reply-To: <48A1838E.5050208-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <48A1838E.5050208@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <20080812150347.GD12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 08:35:26AM -0400, Teddy wrote: > > We have a few hundred Linux boxes. > We do not have root access to these client boxes. > (So I cannot secure or "fix them up") > > Once in a while, we get a DOS or SYN or some other type of > attack on our network, that can down the entire network. > We have our switches configured correctly. (reverifying again) > > One thing I do notice of course is the offending box, starts making > a tremendous amount of bandwidth. (100Mbits/sec) > > I would like to monitor this, perhaps like: > > 1. If traffic on switch >=30 Mbits for 600 seconds then fire off an email > 2. Login to the network to fix it (hopefully before network gets saturated) > > > I have cacti/ntop/nagios and other tools. > What tool would be best suited for this? > Is there a better way, than just waiting for a DOS SYN attack to occur? Well if it happens, note the source port/mac address of the problem, then go permanently remove that user from the network. Eventually it should stop happening. Some switches have built in protection against floods, which could be helpful, although not sure how many have that feature. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 15:05:09 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:05:09 -0400 Subject: CD-Rom Drive Not Mounting In-Reply-To: <48A1015D.2020708-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48A1015D.2020708@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080812150509.GE12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:19:57PM -0400, Stephen wrote: > I am almost up and running with Linux on my PS3. > > I had some struggles with the install but have solved all issues but > one. I can't get the CD-ROM to work. > > I installed desktop 7.10 Ubuntu from a CD so I am sure the drive works, > and it is a configuration issue. > > Here is fstab: > > # /etc/fstab: static file system information. > # > # > proc /proc proc defaults 0 0 > # /dev/ps3da2 > UUID=281151d3-dc67-4e57-b918-0c9371ff5dea / ext3 > defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1 > # /dev/ps3da3 > UUID=d528b54e-0d48-03b8-d42e-75a927573c0f none swap sw 0 0 > /dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom udf,iso9660 user,noauto,ro,exec 0 0 > > I searched the net and added the ro, which was not part of the original > file created by the install. > > Here is mount: > > stephen at stephen-desktop:~$ mount > /dev/ps3da2 on / type ext3 (rw,errors=remount-ro) > proc on /proc type proc (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev) > /sys on /sys type sysfs (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev) > varrun on /var/run type tmpfs (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev,mode=0755) > varlock on /var/lock type tmpfs (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev,mode=1777) > udev on /dev type tmpfs (rw,mode=0755) > devshm on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw) > devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,gid=5,mode=620) > securityfs on /sys/kernel/security type securityfs (rw) > > > So I see it is not mounted, but I do not understand why. > > I run sudo mount -a in the terminal and it does no good. mount -a mounts all auto mounted filesystems. noauto means don't auto mount. Try 'sudo mount /mnt/cdrom'. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 15:36:38 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:36:38 +0300 Subject: CD-Rom Drive Not Mounting In-Reply-To: <48A1015D.2020708-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48A1015D.2020708@rogers.com> Message-ID: Hi, 2008/8/12 Stephen : > I am almost up and running with Linux on my PS3. > PS3, does this imply your drive is blue ray? Is Linux driver yet modified to handle that kind of drives? I am just taking a wild guess here, so take it with a grain of salt. Well and also because I would like that issue discussed so that I can know what direction the OS guys are taking with respect to blue ray. Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 15:36:51 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:36:51 -0400 Subject: CD-Rom Drive Not Mounting In-Reply-To: <20080812150509.GE12475-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <48A1015D.2020708@rogers.com> <20080812150509.GE12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <48A1AE13.2050008@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > mount -a mounts all auto mounted filesystems. noauto means don't auto > mount. Try 'sudo mount /mnt/cdrom'. > This is helping! I got an error saying /dev/cdrom is missing. In fact, it is. I checked my desktop system and found /dev/scd0 is being used. That file was present on the PS3 so I tried it. I got an error saying wrong file system. So I need to find the right driver file I should be using. Can you keep me going? Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 15:44:53 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:44:53 -0400 Subject: CD-Rom Drive Not Mounting In-Reply-To: References: <48A1015D.2020708@rogers.com> Message-ID: <48A1AFF5.8020105@rogers.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 15:45:10 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:45:10 -0400 Subject: CD-Rom Drive Not Mounting In-Reply-To: <48A1AE13.2050008-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48A1015D.2020708@rogers.com> <20080812150509.GE12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48A1AE13.2050008@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080812154510.GF12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 11:36:51AM -0400, Stephen wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >mount -a mounts all auto mounted filesystems. noauto means don't auto > >mount. Try 'sudo mount /mnt/cdrom'. > > > This is helping! > > I got an error saying /dev/cdrom is missing. > > In fact, it is. > > I checked my desktop system and found /dev/scd0 is being used. > > That file was present on the PS3 so I tried it. > > I got an error saying wrong file system. > > So I need to find the right driver file I should be using. Usually udev would create a symlink in /dev called cdrom pointing at the real device. You can change /etc/fstab to say /dev/scd0 instead of /dev/cdrom. iso9660 and udf are the only filesystems I can think of for CDs and DVDs. No idea what blueray uses. Audio CDs of course are not mounted since they have no filesystem, only raw audio data. Those you just play (or extract). file -s /dev/scd0 might give a clue as to what is on the disc. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 17:19:13 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 13:19:13 -0400 Subject: CD-Rom Drive Not Mounting In-Reply-To: <20080812154510.GF12475-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <48A1015D.2020708@rogers.com> <20080812150509.GE12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48A1AE13.2050008@rogers.com> <20080812154510.GF12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <48A1C611.70406@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Usually udev would create a symlink in /dev called cdrom pointing at the > real device. You can change /etc/fstab to say /dev/scd0 instead of > /dev/cdrom. > > iso9660 and udf are the only filesystems I can think of for CDs and > DVDs. No idea what blueray uses. Audio CDs of course are not mounted > since they have no filesystem, only raw audio data. Those you just play > (or extract). > > file -s /dev/scd0 might give a clue as to what is on the disc. > > More progress. Data CDs are read just fine. file -s /dev/scd0 cannot deal with audio disks, but it can deal with DVDs. It identifies them as UDF and reads the DVD label. I am trying to use a program "Sound Juicer" to rip music to the hard drive. This program reports that it cannot find any CD-ROM drives. I created a root account and tried from there with the same result, so I don't think it is a permission issue. Google shows a number of people reporting this problem, but I can't find a solution. When I insert an audio CD in my desktop Ubuntu system, an icon appears on the desktop. It does not on the PS3. Any further thoughts? Many thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 18:36:54 2008 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:36:54 -0400 Subject: modifying jobs in the at queue? Message-ID: <1218566214.32059.52.camel@localhost> hey folks, anyone know if there's an interface that lets you modify jobs in the at queue? i'd really like to have, say, a littke cureses-based editor that lists jobs & lets you edit the command and the time -- so it'd be like editing crontab, but for non-repeating jobs. i'm asking because i've been using a little script to automate the sending of evamils -- i'm using it a lot, but finding sometimes i want to go back and modify what i wrote... matt -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 18:41:55 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:41:55 -0400 Subject: CD-Rom Drive Not Mounting In-Reply-To: <48A1C611.70406-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48A1015D.2020708@rogers.com> <20080812150509.GE12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48A1AE13.2050008@rogers.com> <20080812154510.GF12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48A1C611.70406@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080812184155.GG12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 01:19:13PM -0400, Stephen wrote: > More progress. Data CDs are read just fine. > > file -s /dev/scd0 > > cannot deal with audio disks, but it can deal with DVDs. It identifies > them as UDF and reads the DVD label. > > I am trying to use a program "Sound Juicer" to rip music to the hard > drive. This program reports that it cannot > find any CD-ROM drives. > > I created a root account and tried from there with the same result, so I > don't think it is a permission issue. > > Google shows a number of people reporting this problem, but I can't find > a solution. > > When I insert an audio CD in my desktop Ubuntu system, an icon appears > on the desktop. It does not on the PS3. > > Any further thoughts? Well maybe the optical drive driver for the PS3 doesn't support raw access to audio. If lots of people have that problem, that might be it. Could try with cdparanoia directly. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 18:42:54 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:42:54 -0400 Subject: modifying jobs in the at queue? In-Reply-To: <1218566214.32059.52.camel@localhost> References: <1218566214.32059.52.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20080812184254.GH12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 02:36:54PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > anyone know if there's an interface that lets you modify jobs in the at > queue? i'd really like to have, say, a littke cureses-based editor that > lists jobs & lets you edit the command and the time -- so it'd be like > editing crontab, but for non-repeating jobs. > > i'm asking because i've been using a little script to automate the > sending of evamils -- i'm using it a lot, but finding sometimes i want > to go back and modify what i wrote... You might be able to just find the files for the job in /var and edit them there. Probably not recommended, but still likely to work. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 20:53:14 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:53:14 -0400 Subject: Lovely sale on some thinkpads today Message-ID: <20080812205314.GI12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Apparently today there is a sale on thinkpads which looks pretty nice. I tried checking the price of a T61 which worked out like this: T9300 2.5GHz CPU Vista Ultimate 15.4" WSXGA+ (1680x1050) display Intel X3100 GM965 graphics (works great with linux although 3D isn't fast). 4GB (2x2GB) PC2-5300 ram Fingerprint scanner intel 4965AGN wireless (works very well with linux) 160GB 7200rpm drive DVD recorder 9 cell battery They list it as regularly $2124, on sale during upgrade sale pricing for $1544.25, and then after todays employee pricing coupon (CAPYPWWP) an additional $231.64 saving, giving a total of $1312.61 apparently. That sounds pretty cheap for a quite well equiped thinkpad that is supposed to work great with Linux. Picking the cheapest windows version and a smaller disk should make it even cheaper of course. I think the T61p often has nvidia graphics which would be nice if 3D graphics are needed, but the plain T61 still looks nice, and can be run fully open source -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 21:54:44 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:54:44 -0400 Subject: CD-Rom Drive Not Mounting In-Reply-To: <20080812184155.GG12475-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <48A1015D.2020708@rogers.com> <20080812150509.GE12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48A1AE13.2050008@rogers.com> <20080812154510.GF12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48A1C611.70406@rogers.com> <20080812184155.GG12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1f13df280808121454h5636742cw8c53649e2a564a7d@mail.gmail.com> 2008/8/12 Lennart Sorensen : > On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 01:19:13PM -0400, Stephen wrote: >> More progress. Data CDs are read just fine. >> >> file -s /dev/scd0 >> >> cannot deal with audio disks, but it can deal with DVDs. It identifies >> them as UDF and reads the DVD label. >> >> I am trying to use a program "Sound Juicer" to rip music to the hard >> drive. This program reports that it cannot >> find any CD-ROM drives. >> >> I created a root account and tried from there with the same result, so I >> don't think it is a permission issue. >> >> Google shows a number of people reporting this problem, but I can't find >> a solution. >> >> When I insert an audio CD in my desktop Ubuntu system, an icon appears >> on the desktop. It does not on the PS3. >> >> Any further thoughts? > > Well maybe the optical drive driver for the PS3 doesn't support raw > access to audio. If lots of people have that problem, that might be it. > > Could try with cdparanoia directly. Another possibility is that Sound Juicer expects to find /dev/cdrom and when it doesn't find that link it gets confused. I've never used Sound Juicer but I've definitely had this same problem with other CD-ripping programs: usually all that's required is to either edit the Sound Juicer config (either through its GUI or the right dotfile) or just create a soft link from /dev/scd0 to /dev/cdrom . The latter is probably a good idea anyway. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 01:48:37 2008 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:48:37 -0400 Subject: modifying jobs in the at queue? In-Reply-To: <20080812184254.GH12475-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1218566214.32059.52.camel@localhost> <20080812184254.GH12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1218592117.32059.59.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 14:42 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 02:36:54PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > > anyone know if there's an interface that lets you modify jobs in the at > > queue? i'd really like to have, say, a littke cureses-based editor that > > lists jobs & lets you edit the command and the time -- so it'd be like > > editing crontab, but for non-repeating jobs. > > > > i'm asking because i've been using a little script to automate the > > sending of evamils -- i'm using it a lot, but finding sometimes i want > > to go back and modify what i wrote... > > You might be able to just find the files for the job in /var and edit > them there. Probably not recommended, but still likely to work. > ahh. found them in /var/spool/cron/atjobs . File format looks quite straightforward. not as nice as a curses-based interface, but pretty good for all that. Thanks lennart! m -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From redrocketyamaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 02:34:36 2008 From: redrocketyamaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (dave jackson) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 19:34:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Lovely sale on some thinkpads today In-Reply-To: <20080812205314.GI12475-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080812205314.GI12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <652579.3701.qm@web31307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> G'day prof Lennart, Mercy buckets for the heads up! If You're ever oshawa-way,i'll buy thee a pint. cheers, dar dobson,mvm [aka greasemonkey] --- On Tue, 8/12/08, Lennart Sorensen wrote: Date: Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 1:53 PM > Apparently today there is a sale on thinkpads which looks > pretty nice... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 08:31:40 2008 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 04:31:40 -0400 Subject: Lovely sale on some thinkpads today In-Reply-To: <20080812205314.GI12475-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080812205314.GI12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080813043140.21af7b17.tleslie@tcn.net> On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:53:14 -0400 lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: > Apparently today there is a sale on thinkpads which looks pretty nice. > > I tried checking the price of a T61 which worked out like this: > T9300 2.5GHz CPU > Vista Ultimate > 15.4" WSXGA+ (1680x1050) display > Intel X3100 GM965 graphics (works great with linux although 3D isn't fast). > 4GB (2x2GB) PC2-5300 ram > Fingerprint scanner > intel 4965AGN wireless (works very well with linux) > 160GB 7200rpm drive > DVD recorder > 9 cell battery > > They list it as regularly $2124, on sale during upgrade sale pricing for > $1544.25, and then after todays employee pricing coupon (CAPYPWWP) an is this coupon only special to you? i cant find a t61p on the site, i see a pdf spec sheet talking about it, and that it has 1920x1440 (or somehting like that), but the best i can see is a t61 with a 1680x1050 which isnt to bad. its tempting, but the coupon would clinch it :) and not sure if that applies, or if it was special to you. -tl > additional $231.64 saving, giving a total of $1312.61 apparently. That > sounds pretty cheap for a quite well equiped thinkpad that is supposed > to work great with Linux. Picking the cheapest windows version and a > smaller disk should make it even cheaper of course. > > I think the T61p often has nvidia graphics which would be nice if 3D > graphics are needed, but the plain T61 still looks nice, and can be run > fully open source > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 11:53:32 2008 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 07:53:32 -0400 Subject: Lovely sale on some thinkpads today In-Reply-To: <20080813043140.21af7b17.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20080812205314.GI12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080813043140.21af7b17.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <0F64A1EF-6442-4C79-AD7D-85CF6445B9ED@visibleassets.com> On 13-Aug-08, at 4:31 AM, ted leslie wrote: > On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:53:14 -0400 > lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: > >> Apparently today there is a sale on thinkpads which looks pretty >> nice. >> >> I tried checking the price of a T61 which worked out like this: >> T9300 2.5GHz CPU >> Vista Ultimate >> 15.4" WSXGA+ (1680x1050) display >> Intel X3100 GM965 graphics (works great with linux although 3D >> isn't fast). >> 4GB (2x2GB) PC2-5300 ram >> Fingerprint scanner >> intel 4965AGN wireless (works very well with linux) >> 160GB 7200rpm drive >> DVD recorder >> 9 cell battery >> >> They list it as regularly $2124, on sale during upgrade sale >> pricing for >> $1544.25, and then after todays employee pricing coupon (CAPYPWWP) an > > is this coupon only special to you? > > i cant find a t61p on the site, i see a pdf spec sheet talking about > it, > and that it has 1920x1440 (or somehting like that), but the best i can > see is a t61 with a 1680x1050 which isnt to bad. > > its tempting, but the coupon would clinch it :) and not sure if that > applies, > or if it was special to you. > > -tl > OK, I must be awfully blunt this morning but which site is this at ? --dc-- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 14:17:07 2008 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 10:17:07 -0400 Subject: Lovely sale on some thinkpads today In-Reply-To: <0F64A1EF-6442-4C79-AD7D-85CF6445B9ED-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <20080812205314.GI12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080813043140.21af7b17.tleslie@tcn.net> <0F64A1EF-6442-4C79-AD7D-85CF6445B9ED@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <20080813101707.03f0ce1f.tleslie@tcn.net> i did a search on google for t61 thinkpad canada, and got to lenovo site if you go to lenovo.com it seems to know your coming from canada based on IP and also gets you to right place. -tl On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 07:53:32 -0400 Dave Cramer wrote: > > On 13-Aug-08, at 4:31 AM, ted leslie wrote: > > > On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:53:14 -0400 > > lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: > > > >> Apparently today there is a sale on thinkpads which looks pretty > >> nice. > >> > >> I tried checking the price of a T61 which worked out like this: > >> T9300 2.5GHz CPU > >> Vista Ultimate > >> 15.4" WSXGA+ (1680x1050) display > >> Intel X3100 GM965 graphics (works great with linux although 3D > >> isn't fast). > >> 4GB (2x2GB) PC2-5300 ram > >> Fingerprint scanner > >> intel 4965AGN wireless (works very well with linux) > >> 160GB 7200rpm drive > >> DVD recorder > >> 9 cell battery > >> > >> They list it as regularly $2124, on sale during upgrade sale > >> pricing for > >> $1544.25, and then after todays employee pricing coupon (CAPYPWWP) an > > > > is this coupon only special to you? > > > > i cant find a t61p on the site, i see a pdf spec sheet talking about > > it, > > and that it has 1920x1440 (or somehting like that), but the best i can > > see is a t61 with a 1680x1050 which isnt to bad. > > > > its tempting, but the coupon would clinch it :) and not sure if that > > applies, > > or if it was special to you. > > > > -tl > > > OK, I must be awfully blunt this morning but which site is this at ? > > --dc-- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 14:21:02 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 10:21:02 -0400 Subject: Lovely sale on some thinkpads today In-Reply-To: <20080813043140.21af7b17.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20080812205314.GI12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080813043140.21af7b17.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20080813142102.GJ12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 04:31:40AM -0400, ted leslie wrote: > On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:53:14 -0400 > lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: > > > Apparently today there is a sale on thinkpads which looks pretty nice. > > > > I tried checking the price of a T61 which worked out like this: > > T9300 2.5GHz CPU > > Vista Ultimate > > 15.4" WSXGA+ (1680x1050) display > > Intel X3100 GM965 graphics (works great with linux although 3D isn't fast). > > 4GB (2x2GB) PC2-5300 ram > > Fingerprint scanner > > intel 4965AGN wireless (works very well with linux) > > 160GB 7200rpm drive > > DVD recorder > > 9 cell battery > > > > They list it as regularly $2124, on sale during upgrade sale pricing for > > $1544.25, and then after todays employee pricing coupon (CAPYPWWP) an > > is this coupon only special to you? It was on redflagdeals.com > i cant find a t61p on the site, i see a pdf spec sheet talking about it, > and that it has 1920x1440 (or somehting like that), but the best i can > see is a t61 with a 1680x1050 which isnt to bad. I can't find it either anymore. The T61 still looks nice. > its tempting, but the coupon would clinch it :) and not sure if that applies, > or if it was special to you. Seems it is a one day applies to anyone code. Certainly wasn't sent to me. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 17:47:56 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:47:56 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software Message-ID: <48A31E4C.3060403@chrisaitken.net> My wife and I are expanding our guitar lessons business to include piano tuning. She will be getting a Peterson Strobe tuning machine. I, however, will get a laptop with CyberTuner software. Before I get a Mac notebook to run the software I thought I would at least /look/ at linux. What inspired me to look at linux was that I saw an ASUS notebook at Krazy Krazy that comes loaded with ASUS linux. Of course it comes with a Windows CD as well (I guess to bail if you don't like linux). Does anyone know of piano-tuning software that works (for sure) in linux? This has to be something that works. I can't do one of these things like when I screwed around for six months trying to record on the E-MU 1212m pci in audacity (in linux) only to find out later that in fact there was no fully-functional linux driver for that card. I need this to work - we are taking over a huge client list for the piano-tuning. We want the software to speed things up (over the ear-only method), not to slow things down. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 19:45:49 2008 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:45:49 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: <48A31E4C.3060403-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <48A31E4C.3060403@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > My wife and I are expanding our guitar lessons business to include piano > tuning. She will be getting a Peterson Strobe tuning machine. I, however, > will get a laptop with CyberTuner software. Before I get a Mac notebook to > run the software I thought I would at least /look/ at linux. What inspired > me to look at linux was that I saw an ASUS notebook at Krazy Krazy that > comes loaded with ASUS linux. Of course it comes with a Windows CD as well > (I guess to bail if you don't like linux). Does anyone know of piano-tuning > software that works (for sure) in linux? For sure? No. However, a minute with Google produces .. http://piano-tuner.sourceforge.net/ It might be worth your while to download it and try it out to see if it's worth basing a business on. > This has to be something that works. I can't do one of these things like > when I screwed around for six months trying to record on the E-MU 1212m pci > in audacity (in linux) only to find out later that in fact there was no > fully-functional linux driver for that card. I need this to work - we are > taking over a huge client list for the piano-tuning. We want the software to > speed things up (over the ear-only method), not to slow things down. To my mind, if you have a solution that works, but you're thinking about betting the business on finding a Linux solution, that sounds like a really poor bet. Go ahead and use the Mac solution that works, but go ahead and tinker with the Linux solution as something to keep in your back pocket. Good luck -- piano tuning is not for the faint-hearted. Alex (former piano student) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 20:20:10 2008 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:20:10 -0400 Subject: Lovely sale on some thinkpads today In-Reply-To: <0F64A1EF-6442-4C79-AD7D-85CF6445B9ED-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <20080812205314.GI12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080813043140.21af7b17.tleslie@tcn.net> <0F64A1EF-6442-4C79-AD7D-85CF6445B9ED@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <9363A702-558B-48FD-A5B3-5A6B6DCBDA6C@visibleassets.com> On 13-Aug-08, at 7:53 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > > On 13-Aug-08, at 4:31 AM, ted leslie wrote: > >> On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:53:14 -0400 >> lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: >> >>> Apparently today there is a sale on thinkpads which looks pretty >>> nice. >>> >>> I tried checking the price of a T61 which worked out like this: >>> T9300 2.5GHz CPU >>> Vista Ultimate >>> 15.4" WSXGA+ (1680x1050) display >>> Intel X3100 GM965 graphics (works great with linux although 3D >>> isn't fast). >>> 4GB (2x2GB) PC2-5300 ram >>> Fingerprint scanner >>> intel 4965AGN wireless (works very well with linux) >>> 160GB 7200rpm drive >>> DVD recorder >>> 9 cell battery >>> >>> They list it as regularly $2124, on sale during upgrade sale >>> pricing for >>> $1544.25, and then after todays employee pricing coupon (CAPYPWWP) >>> an >> I have a supplier who can do a little better than this plus if we order more than 7 he can do an additional 100 per laptop. --dc-- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 20:24:57 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:24:57 -0400 Subject: Lovely sale on some thinkpads today In-Reply-To: <9363A702-558B-48FD-A5B3-5A6B6DCBDA6C-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <20080812205314.GI12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080813043140.21af7b17.tleslie@tcn.net> <0F64A1EF-6442-4C79-AD7D-85CF6445B9ED@visibleassets.com> <9363A702-558B-48FD-A5B3-5A6B6DCBDA6C@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <20080813202457.GK12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 04:20:10PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > I have a supplier who can do a little better than this plus if we > order more than 7 he can do an additional 100 per laptop. Even better. Not surprising, after all if they are willing to sell it for that price they are most likely still making money so giving discounts to large orders make sense too. You need contacts for that of course, while a sale/promotion is much simpler to take advantage of for your typical consumer. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 20:33:14 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:33:14 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: References: <48A31E4C.3060403@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080813203314.GL12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 03:45:49PM -0400, Alex Beamish wrote: > To my mind, if you have a solution that works, but you're thinking > about betting the business on finding a Linux solution, that sounds > like a really poor bet. Go ahead and use the Mac solution that works, > but go ahead and tinker with the Linux solution as something to keep > in your back pocket. > > Good luck -- piano tuning is not for the faint-hearted. Neither is being in the same room as an out of tune piano. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 20:43:06 2008 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:43:06 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: <48A31E4C.3060403-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <48A31E4C.3060403@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: To follow up, SourceForge has a total of 112 projects when one searches for 'piano tuner': http://sourceforge.net/search/?type_of_search=soft&words=piano+tuner IMO, activity level and number of downloads can be a useful metric in terms of how good a package is .. but, as you're aware, this is open source -- no warranty, etc, etc. Do let us know how it goes for you -- we all love to hear Linux success stories. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linuxdarkstar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 20:51:32 2008 From: linuxdarkstar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kamran) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:51:32 -0400 Subject: CCNA or LPI Study Group Message-ID: <48A34954.2010607@gmail.com> Anyone interested in a CCNA or LPI(Level 2) study group? To be honest I don't have much use for either of the Certs but I am interested in seeing how many Certs I can get by the end of 2008. I pretty much know the first half of CCNA so I don't mind refreshing the material and helping the study group. For LPI Level 2 I know about half the material already, If anyone is interested in a study group for another Cert let me know. LPI actually is a little bit useful for getting a job. People are taking a slight interest in it and some companies are forgoing their own certs in favour of LPI. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 21:28:54 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 17:28:54 -0400 Subject: Lovely sale on some thinkpads today In-Reply-To: <20080812205314.GI12475-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080812205314.GI12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080813212854.GM12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 04:53:14PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Apparently today there is a sale on thinkpads which looks pretty nice. > > I tried checking the price of a T61 which worked out like this: > T9300 2.5GHz CPU > Vista Ultimate > 15.4" WSXGA+ (1680x1050) display > Intel X3100 GM965 graphics (works great with linux although 3D isn't fast). > 4GB (2x2GB) PC2-5300 ram > Fingerprint scanner > intel 4965AGN wireless (works very well with linux) > 160GB 7200rpm drive > DVD recorder > 9 cell battery > > They list it as regularly $2124, on sale during upgrade sale pricing for > $1544.25, and then after todays employee pricing coupon (CAPYPWWP) an > additional $231.64 saving, giving a total of $1312.61 apparently. That > sounds pretty cheap for a quite well equiped thinkpad that is supposed > to work great with Linux. Picking the cheapest windows version and a > smaller disk should make it even cheaper of course. > > I think the T61p often has nvidia graphics which would be nice if 3D > graphics are needed, but the plain T61 still looks nice, and can be run > fully open source Now today they have come out with coupons that are each valid for the first 200 orders of each of a set of models. See redflagdeals.com for the list. They give 20% off a bunch of laptops. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 14 11:57:58 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 07:57:58 -0400 Subject: Offering Fedora 9 Linux CDs Message-ID: Those who were at last night's Unix Unanimous (UU) user group meeting already know that Anthony de Boer brought in a fair number of Fedora 9 Linux CDs and that I went home with said CDs. So, anyone who wasn't at last night's UU meeting and would like one of these CDs let me know and I will be happy to set-up an arrangement to pass one of these disks on to you... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 13:01:38 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 13:01:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: DOS SYN attack on a large network In-Reply-To: <48A1838E.5050208-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <48A1838E.5050208@tmis.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Aug 2008, Teddy wrote: > We have a few hundred Linux boxes. > We do not have root access to these client boxes. > (So I cannot secure or "fix them up") Hi Teddy. Who does have root access? Do the boxes have any sysadmins who are directly or indirectly responsible for them? If there are no sysadmins then I'd say there is an organisational problem. If there are sysadmins then you should complain to them about the DoS of course. If a box under the control of a sysadmin DoSed something else in the same company then the sysadmin would probably be hiding in shame after fixing it. > Once in a while, we get a DOS or SYN or some other type of > attack on our network, that can down the entire network. Boxes inside your own organisation are DoSing you (!!). > We have our switches configured correctly. (reverifying again) > > One thing I do notice of course is the offending box, starts making > a tremendous amount of bandwidth. (100Mbits/sec) What exactly are the boxes doing that a single box can apparently DoS your network? ie what does wireshark say about the traffic? Is it unicast, broadcast or multicast? Perhaps you need to look at switch upgrades. > I would like to monitor this, perhaps like: > 1. If traffic on switch >=30 Mbits for 600 seconds then fire off an email > 2. Login to the network to fix it (hopefully before network gets saturated) Monitoring isn't sufficient IMHO... > Is there a better way, than just waiting for a DOS SYN attack to occur? If these boxes are not under your control and sometimes take down your boxes they should be considered hostile. The solution: put a firewall between you and them and rate-limit SYN packets from any one source. Limit access as much as possible. This is trivial with a Netfilter (Linux, iptables) based firewall. Having said that, this is a problem which needs to be raised with management - at the highest levels if necessary. If there are no sysadmins for these boxes then convince management there needs to be and offer the DoSes as proof. Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 14 14:48:05 2008 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 10:48:05 -0400 Subject: had a query for software contract developer with telecom expertise Message-ID: <200808141048.06177.icanprogram@295.ca> Don't know the name of the client other than it is a largish telecom provider in Southern Ontario. Don't yet know if this is a Linux, UNIX or other job. If you think you might have the telecom expertise (or know someone who does) please contact me offlist and I'll fill you in with what I know. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 14 16:31:37 2008 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 12:31:37 -0400 Subject: Lovely sale on some thinkpads today In-Reply-To: <20080813101707.03f0ce1f.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20080812205314.GI12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080813043140.21af7b17.tleslie@tcn.net> <0F64A1EF-6442-4C79-AD7D-85CF6445B9ED@visibleassets.com> <20080813101707.03f0ce1f.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: I'm not sure whether my Friend's and Family employee discount would have a comparable price. If you would like that, just email me @ jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org John On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 10:17 AM, ted leslie wrote: > i did a search on google for t61 thinkpad canada, > and got to lenovo site > > if you go to lenovo.com it seems to know your coming from canada > based on IP and also gets you to right place. > > -tl > > On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 07:53:32 -0400 > Dave Cramer wrote: > > > > > On 13-Aug-08, at 4:31 AM, ted leslie wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:53:14 -0400 > > > lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: > > > > > >> Apparently today there is a sale on thinkpads which looks pretty > > >> nice. > > >> > > >> I tried checking the price of a T61 which worked out like this: > > >> T9300 2.5GHz CPU > > >> Vista Ultimate > > >> 15.4" WSXGA+ (1680x1050) display > > >> Intel X3100 GM965 graphics (works great with linux although 3D > > >> isn't fast). > > >> 4GB (2x2GB) PC2-5300 ram > > >> Fingerprint scanner > > >> intel 4965AGN wireless (works very well with linux) > > >> 160GB 7200rpm drive > > >> DVD recorder > > >> 9 cell battery > > >> > > >> They list it as regularly $2124, on sale during upgrade sale > > >> pricing for > > >> $1544.25, and then after todays employee pricing coupon (CAPYPWWP) an > > > > > > is this coupon only special to you? > > > > > > i cant find a t61p on the site, i see a pdf spec sheet talking about > > > it, > > > and that it has 1920x1440 (or somehting like that), but the best i can > > > see is a t61 with a 1680x1050 which isnt to bad. > > > > > > its tempting, but the coupon would clinch it :) and not sure if that > > > applies, > > > or if it was special to you. > > > > > > -tl > > > > > OK, I must be awfully blunt this morning but which site is this at ? > > > > --dc-- > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > -- > ted leslie > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 14 16:42:12 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 12:42:12 -0400 Subject: [u-u] headsup - Software Freedom Day In-Reply-To: References: <8A4E5F26-BF2C-4F1E-91CC-676949C895B8@telegraphics.com.au> Message-ID: On 8/13/08, Hello Kittyhawk wrote: > On Wed, 13 Aug 2008, Toby Thain wrote: > |Hi > | > |In case anyone on this list feels like celebratin' Software Freedom: > |There's the Software Freedom Day on 20 September coming up. > | > | softwarefreedomday.org/ > | softwarefreedomday.org/StartGuide for ideas. > | > |For myself, I'm planning to at least throw a big banner on my web site. > > > Here's some real software freedom to be celebrated right now! > > > newmedialaw.proskauer.com/2008/08/articles/copyright/federal-circuit-says-open-source-license-conditions-are-enforceable-as-copyright-condition/ Yes, I've been following the above case with some interest. The story is, in essence: - A group of model train enthusiasts get together and create a Java based model railroad control software toolkit that makes it easy to set-up systems to control model railroads with the same look and feel of a major railway (i.e.: from a screen control where the model trains go, load / unload freight, etc.... so, we all have our problems... :-) ). This software is released under the Artistic Software licence (which like say the GPL and BSD licences does allow for software copying subject to conditions). The project is called JMRI and get the trademark DecoderPro. - Matt Katzer gets a patent for some of the technology in the JMRI project (without noting prior art by JMRI in the patent application, which one is required to do). Matt Katzer gets said patent. Matt Katzer then sues Bob Jacobsen (one of the JMRI developers) for patent infringement . Matt Katzer releases a version of the JMRI software with the JMRI credits information removed (in violation of the Artistic Software licence). Matt Katzer gets the DecoderPro.com domain. Matt Katzer goes after Bob Jacobsen's employer in an effort to intimate. - The WIPO orders the DecoderPro.com domain returned to the trademark holder, the JMRI project (which has been done). - Bob Jacobsen sues Matt Katzer for the harassment and copyright violation, which he looses on both counts. Bob Jacobsen drops the harassment suit, and appeals the copyright judgement. - The news NOW is that the appeals court has told the lower court that they were wrong regarding the copyright infringement. So, the lower court still needs to sort out details on how Matt Katzer is to be punished for his copyright infringement... - As for the patent case that is still being worked on... Another one of these cases where a @#$% decides to use the courts to try and make life miserable for free software developers for profit ... Sad... Still, while PAINFULLY slow, at least the good guys are winning... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 14 17:33:40 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:33:40 -0400 Subject: [OT]: Any IEEE Computer Society members out there? Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808141033h5b1098bbpd9c7679f6e372408@mail.gmail.com> I recently received notice that an IEEE survey on Quality Assurance & Open Source has finished up and an analysis posted. http://doi.ieeecomputersociety.org/10.1109/COMPSAC.2008.65 I'm not paying $20 to read the results of a survey I participated in. Something more than just a one-paragraph executive summary would've been nice. What a pain. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 14 18:10:49 2008 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 14 Aug 2008 14:10:49 -0400 Subject: [OT]: Any IEEE Computer Society members out there? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0808141033h5b1098bbpd9c7679f6e372408-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0808141033h5b1098bbpd9c7679f6e372408@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I know some people. I'll grab it. I may come in handy for the Intel Developer Forum next week. Scott (and others), Starnix has moved offices this month and we're have a "office warming party" on Sept 13th. Wanna go? Other tluggers are welcome, too, but the office is in Mississauga. You may break into a rash by coming here ;) As always, our office location is a secret (muahahahaha), so e-mail me for directions. Regards, --matt "Scott Elcomb" writes: > I recently received notice that an IEEE survey on Quality Assurance & > Open Source has finished up and an analysis posted. > > http://doi.ieeecomputersociety.org/10.1109/COMPSAC.2008.65 > > I'm not paying $20 to read the results of a survey I participated in. > Something more than just a one-paragraph executive summary would've > been nice. > > What a pain. > > -- > Scott Elcomb > http://www.psema4.com/ > http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- g. matthew rice starnix care, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 14 18:42:57 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT]: Any IEEE Computer Society members out there? In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0808141033h5b1098bbpd9c7679f6e372408@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Aug 2008, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > As always, our office location is a secret (muahahahaha), so e-mail me for > directions. One word: Strategis ;) All Canadian corporations must file a physical office address with the government and the records are publically searchable. Wow, you're really close to where I live ;) Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 14 18:57:43 2008 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 14 Aug 2008 14:57:43 -0400 Subject: [OT]: Any IEEE Computer Society members out there? In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0808141033h5b1098bbpd9c7679f6e372408@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Robert Brockway writes: > > As always, our office location is a secret (muahahahaha), so e-mail me for > > directions. > > One word: Strategis ;) > > All Canadian corporations must file a physical office address with the > government and the records are publically searchable. > > Wow, you're really close to where I live ;) Well, we moved 6 days ago. You don't think that updating that is the most important task on our todo list, do ya? ;) Plus, don't confuse a "physical office where the books are kept" with a real office where work is done. My guess is that the registered physical address is one of the partners' homes. And there's both starnix and starnix care... Hmm, how do you OT and OT thread? :-D TTYL, -- g. matthew rice starnix care, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 14 19:21:56 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 15:21:56 -0400 Subject: [OT]: Any IEEE Computer Society members out there? In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0808141033h5b1098bbpd9c7679f6e372408@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808141221g3822c4f8j2135ca546c888f7a@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 2:10 PM, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > I know some people. I'll grab it. I may come in handy for the Intel > Developer Forum next week. > > > Scott (and others), Starnix has moved offices this month and we're have a > "office warming party" on Sept 13th. Wanna go? Thanks Matt. I'll let you know about the party; sounds like fun. :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 14 22:26:37 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:26:37 -0400 Subject: Decent Gnome wireless network tool Message-ID: <48A4B11D.3010008@alteeve.com> Hi all, I am looking for a simple graphical tool (Gnome) that will show me what wireless networks are in range and let me choose which I want to connect to (and enter the pass phrase when needed). I know one exists, as the Asus Eee and others have nice tools. In case it matters, I'm using Ubuntu 8.04. Cheers! Madi, who is forever stuck in command line. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 01:04:41 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:04:41 -0400 Subject: Decent Gnome wireless network tool In-Reply-To: <48A4B11D.3010008-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48A4B11D.3010008@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 8/14/08, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I am looking for a simple graphical tool (Gnome) that will show me > what wireless networks are in range and let me choose which I want to > connect to (and enter the pass phrase when needed). I know one exists, > as the Asus Eee and others have nice tools. In case it matters, I'm > using Ubuntu 8.04. > > Cheers! > > Madi, who is forever stuck in command line. KWiFiManager more-or-less does the above... Okay, so it isn't a Gnome tool, but Ubuntu shouldn't have an issue with it... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 01:10:03 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:10:03 -0400 Subject: Looking for an ASUS motherboard that net boots... Message-ID: I've previously noted on this mailing list the problems I have had attempting to get an ASUS M2N-MX SE Plus motherboard to net boot (bottom line, I have shipped the motherboard to ASUS twice, they have shipped the motherboard back twice and I still have a motherboard with a broadcast MAC address, grumble)... In talking to ASUS this afternoon, they suggested they MIGHT be willing to replace the M2N-MX SE Plus with a different model motherboard. So, before I talk to ASUS tomorrow (Friday August 15th) I would like to know what motherboards does ASUS sell that can net boot? With the M2N-MX SE Plus I was after a basic microATX motherboard that could be tucked into a corner of my bedroom all to act as a diskless frontend for my main FE/BE box in the livingroom. So, what I am after is a board that: - MUST have a valid MAC address for the on-board ethernet port. - MUST support net booting. As I am in no mood to re-purchase stuff to go with the motherboard I also want: - a microATX form factor so I can re-use the HTPC case I have. - support for the AMD AM2 3200+ CPU - support for 533MHz DDR2 memory - on-board video good enough to display 1080p OR have a PCI-Expess connector that will allow me to re-use my GeForce 7200 card. Nice to have, but not critical, as I might repurpose the motherboard 2-3 years down the road would be: - SATA raid support, Gigabit ethernet, firewire, etc... So, what ASUS motherboards (if any) can make the above cut? Thanks all. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 01:12:24 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:12:24 -0400 Subject: Decent Gnome wireless network tool In-Reply-To: References: <48A4B11D.3010008@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <48A4D7F8.8020400@alteeve.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > On 8/14/08, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I am looking for a simple graphical tool (Gnome) that will show me >> what wireless networks are in range and let me choose which I want to >> connect to (and enter the pass phrase when needed). I know one exists, >> as the Asus Eee and others have nice tools. In case it matters, I'm >> using Ubuntu 8.04. >> >> Cheers! >> >> Madi, who is forever stuck in command line. > > KWiFiManager more-or-less does the above... > > Okay, so it isn't a Gnome tool, but Ubuntu shouldn't have an issue with it... > > > Colin McGregor Thanks for that, but I am hoping for a Gnome app in hopes that I can stick it on my panel. Failing that though, I may use that. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 03:40:36 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:40:36 -0400 Subject: Decent Gnome wireless network tool In-Reply-To: <48A4B11D.3010008-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48A4B11D.3010008@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <48A4FAB4.6050007@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I am looking for a simple graphical tool (Gnome) that will show me > what wireless networks are in range and let me choose which I want to > connect to (and enter the pass phrase when needed). I know one exists, > as the Asus Eee and others have nice tools. In case it matters, I'm > using Ubuntu 8.04. > > Cheers! > > Madi, who is forever stuck in command line. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > The folks on the Mepis forums have reported great success with wicd. Its website has instructions for installing it on Debian, Ubuntu, Slackware etc. > http://wicd.sourceforge.net/ HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 05:08:54 2008 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:08:54 -0600 Subject: Decent Gnome wireless network tool In-Reply-To: <48A4B11D.3010008-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48A4B11D.3010008@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <48A50F66.5090903@ualberta.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I am looking for a simple graphical tool (Gnome) that will show me > what wireless networks are in range and let me choose which I want to > connect to (and enter the pass phrase when needed). I know one exists, > as the Asus Eee and others have nice tools. In case it matters, I'm > using Ubuntu 8.04. I use the network-admin command that comes with Ubuntu (or seems to anyway-- if not someone can correct me... maybe it's a Gnome thing). Oh, as I suspected, this is the same as the one that is invoked when you go to Gnome's drop down System -> Network. Clicking on your wireless adapter, then Properties.. if you select the combo box for the ESSID and wait a few seconds they should all get listed there with their strengths. You should be able to choose which one to connect to.. and then enter the network's passphrase. So I guess you're looking for something more/better? What additional features are you hoping for? Marc -- Patents act as a tax, an innovation tax. -- James Bessen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From overholt-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 12:25:43 2008 From: overholt-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrew Overholt) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 08:25:43 -0400 Subject: Decent Gnome wireless network tool In-Reply-To: <48A4B11D.3010008-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48A4B11D.3010008@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20080815122542.GA3988@redhat.com> Hi, * Madison Kelly [2008-08-14 18:27]: > > I am looking for a simple graphical tool (Gnome) that will show me > what wireless networks are in range and let me choose which I want to > connect to (and enter the pass phrase when needed). NetworkManager Andrew -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 14:13:24 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:13:24 -0400 Subject: Looking for an ASUS motherboard that net boots... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080815141324.GN12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 09:10:03PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > I've previously noted on this mailing list the problems I have had > attempting to get an ASUS M2N-MX SE Plus motherboard to net boot > (bottom line, I have shipped the motherboard to ASUS twice, they have > shipped the motherboard back twice and I still have a motherboard with > a broadcast MAC address, grumble)... So what exactly is the MAC addres that the board is sending when trying to network boot right now? What MAC address does it have once in Linux if you boot a live cd or such? If it sends a correct MAC address to get its IP and start booting but is only wrong once you hit linux, then you simply need a newer kernel, or to file a bug report because this is a known issue with the reverse engineered forcedeth driver and not actually a problem with the board. If the board is able to send a request to start booting from the network and load the kernel and start executing the kernel, then there is NOTHING wrong with your board, only with your kernel/network driver and there is nothing Asus can do to fix it for you. > In talking to ASUS this afternoon, they suggested they MIGHT be > willing to replace the M2N-MX SE Plus with a different model > motherboard. So, before I talk to ASUS tomorrow (Friday August 15th) I > would like to know what motherboards does ASUS sell that can net boot? > > With the M2N-MX SE Plus I was after a basic microATX motherboard that > could be tucked into a corner of my bedroom all to act as a diskless > frontend for my main FE/BE box in the livingroom. So, what I am after > is a board that: > > - MUST have a valid MAC address for the on-board ethernet port. > - MUST support net booting. > > As I am in no mood to re-purchase stuff to go with the motherboard I also want: > - a microATX form factor so I can re-use the HTPC case I have. > - support for the AMD AM2 3200+ CPU > - support for 533MHz DDR2 memory > - on-board video good enough to display 1080p OR have a PCI-Expess > connector that will allow me to re-use my GeForce 7200 card. > > Nice to have, but not critical, as I might repurpose the motherboard > 2-3 years down the road would be: > - SATA raid support, Gigabit ethernet, firewire, etc... > > So, what ASUS motherboards (if any) can make the above cut? Well unfortunately for an AMD CPU you only seem to have the choices of ATI and Nvidia for chipset. I despise ATI chipsets, but unfortunately it seems you are being hit by the backwards MAC address problem on the Nvidia board, although I am surprised that could have hit the network boot code. For an intel CPU you would have a few more choices. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 14:15:10 2008 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (Teddy) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:15:10 -0400 Subject: Looking for an ASUS motherboard that net boots... In-Reply-To: <20080815141324.GN12475-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080815141324.GN12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <48A58F6E.3000804@tmis.ca> Would it not be easier to just disable the onboard NIC, and drop in a network card that does PXE? Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 09:10:03PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > >> I've previously noted on this mailing list the problems I have had >> attempting to get an ASUS M2N-MX SE Plus motherboard to net boot >> (bottom line, I have shipped the motherboard to ASUS twice, they have >> shipped the motherboard back twice and I still have a motherboard with >> a broadcast MAC address, grumble)... >> > > So what exactly is the MAC addres that the board is sending when trying > to network boot right now? > > What MAC address does it have once in Linux if you boot a live cd or > such? > > If it sends a correct MAC address to get its IP and start booting but is > only wrong once you hit linux, then you simply need a newer kernel, or > to file a bug report because this is a known issue with the reverse > engineered forcedeth driver and not actually a problem with the board. > If the board is able to send a request to start booting from the network > and load the kernel and start executing the kernel, then there is > NOTHING wrong with your board, only with your kernel/network driver and > there is nothing Asus can do to fix it for you. > > >> In talking to ASUS this afternoon, they suggested they MIGHT be >> willing to replace the M2N-MX SE Plus with a different model >> motherboard. So, before I talk to ASUS tomorrow (Friday August 15th) I >> would like to know what motherboards does ASUS sell that can net boot? >> >> With the M2N-MX SE Plus I was after a basic microATX motherboard that >> could be tucked into a corner of my bedroom all to act as a diskless >> frontend for my main FE/BE box in the livingroom. So, what I am after >> is a board that: >> >> - MUST have a valid MAC address for the on-board ethernet port. >> - MUST support net booting. >> >> As I am in no mood to re-purchase stuff to go with the motherboard I also want: >> - a microATX form factor so I can re-use the HTPC case I have. >> - support for the AMD AM2 3200+ CPU >> - support for 533MHz DDR2 memory >> - on-board video good enough to display 1080p OR have a PCI-Expess >> connector that will allow me to re-use my GeForce 7200 card. >> >> Nice to have, but not critical, as I might repurpose the motherboard >> 2-3 years down the road would be: >> - SATA raid support, Gigabit ethernet, firewire, etc... >> >> So, what ASUS motherboards (if any) can make the above cut? >> > > Well unfortunately for an AMD CPU you only seem to have the choices of > ATI and Nvidia for chipset. I despise ATI chipsets, but unfortunately > it seems you are being hit by the backwards MAC address problem on the > Nvidia board, although I am surprised that could have hit the network > boot code. For an intel CPU you would have a few more choices. > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 14:40:16 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:40:16 -0400 Subject: Looking for an ASUS motherboard that net boots... In-Reply-To: <20080815141324.GN12475-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080815141324.GN12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080815144016.GO12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 10:13:24AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 09:10:03PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > > I've previously noted on this mailing list the problems I have had > > attempting to get an ASUS M2N-MX SE Plus motherboard to net boot > > (bottom line, I have shipped the motherboard to ASUS twice, they have > > shipped the motherboard back twice and I still have a motherboard with > > a broadcast MAC address, grumble)... > > So what exactly is the MAC addres that the board is sending when trying > to network boot right now? > > What MAC address does it have once in Linux if you boot a live cd or > such? > > If it sends a correct MAC address to get its IP and start booting but is > only wrong once you hit linux, then you simply need a newer kernel, or > to file a bug report because this is a known issue with the reverse > engineered forcedeth driver and not actually a problem with the board. > If the board is able to send a request to start booting from the network > and load the kernel and start executing the kernel, then there is > NOTHING wrong with your board, only with your kernel/network driver and > there is nothing Asus can do to fix it for you. In fact this has been an issue for a few years now, given I found people discussing this issue when network booting. The issue is: The MAC address is stored backwards on nvidia boards (No one ever seems to have explained who got that bright idea) so it has to be reversed before using it. This is done by reading it from the network chip and reversing it and writing it back to the same location in the chip. The linux driver knows to do this reverse thing, and also knows to unreverse it on suspend and such so that it will be correct next time the driver starts up again. Of course the BIOS boot code also needs the MAC address correct, so it too reverses it so it can use the port for network booting, but it does NOT put it back when done network booting. Apparently some board makers have updated their PXE code to in fact reverse it again when PXE shuts down, or at least so it seems. I guess Asus has not done so on this board. I am wondering if the windows driver has been changed to deal with this, or if they simply never tested network boot. So the linux driver needs some way to detect if the address has already been reversed or if it needs to be reversed. How to do that reliably is the big debate (or at least was 2 years ago). Some people have even found the windows driver doesn't work after PXE boot for the same reason. Briliant move on the part of whoever got the stupid reverse MAC address storage idea. :) You can see the discussion I found here: http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Kernel/2006-10/msg01345.html -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 14:41:37 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:41:37 -0400 Subject: Looking for an ASUS motherboard that net boots... In-Reply-To: <48A58F6E.3000804-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <20080815141324.GN12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48A58F6E.3000804@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <20080815144137.GP12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 10:15:10AM -0400, Teddy wrote: > Would it not be easier to just disable the onboard NIC, and drop in a > network card that does PXE? Maybe, but doesn't that defeat the purpose of a nice microatx board with every feature you need onboard? And where do you buy add in cards that network boot these days? Another option is to just patch the kernel to check for the Asus leading 3 bytes of the MAC address and conditionally reverse the address if needed, which I thought newer kernels did, but perhaps they don't in all cases. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 14:51:31 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:51:31 -0400 Subject: Looking for an ASUS motherboard that net boots... In-Reply-To: <20080815141324.GN12475-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080815141324.GN12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 8/15/08, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 09:10:03PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >> I've previously noted on this mailing list the problems I have had >> attempting to get an ASUS M2N-MX SE Plus motherboard to net boot >> (bottom line, I have shipped the motherboard to ASUS twice, they have >> shipped the motherboard back twice and I still have a motherboard with >> a broadcast MAC address, grumble)... > > So what exactly is the MAC addres that the board is sending when trying > to network boot right now? The board has the MAC address : db:b3:db:60:1d:00 . This is a broadcast MAC address. > What MAC address does it have once in Linux if you boot a live cd or > such? If I boot a live CD the the software will detect that I have an invalid MAC address. The software will then change the MAC address to a valid value selected at random. This is an issue as the server software uses the MAC address to know what configuration files to be loaded into which client machine(s)... > If it sends a correct MAC address to get its IP and start booting but is > only wrong once you hit linux, then you simply need a newer kernel, or > to file a bug report because this is a known issue with the reverse > engineered forcedeth driver and not actually a problem with the board. > If the board is able to send a request to start booting from the network > and load the kernel and start executing the kernel, then there is > NOTHING wrong with your board, only with your kernel/network driver and > there is nothing Asus can do to fix it for you. The motherboard sends an invalid MAC address across the network and any software that respects the IEEE 802 standard will not work. The way ASUS could fix this would be to put a valid MAC address into the BIOS. Alternatively, I gather one of the other motherboard builders that had the same issue offers a free MS-DOS (gag) utility that lets you change the MAC address in EEROM to anything you want (not ideal, but this is a workable solution). If ASUS offered this change MAC address utility, I could run MS-DOS once, change the MAC address and have a working netbooting system... The whole point of this exercise was to build a small, light weight, low power, quiet PC. If during set-up I need to connect a floppy drive or a CD-ROM drive as a one time event, I could live with that. What I am not willing to tolerate is having to keep any sort of drive (floppy, optical or hard drive) as a permenate part of the system. >> In talking to ASUS this afternoon, they suggested they MIGHT be >> willing to replace the M2N-MX SE Plus with a different model >> motherboard. So, before I talk to ASUS tomorrow (Friday August 15th) I >> would like to know what motherboards does ASUS sell that can net boot? >> >> With the M2N-MX SE Plus I was after a basic microATX motherboard that >> could be tucked into a corner of my bedroom all to act as a diskless >> frontend for my main FE/BE box in the livingroom. So, what I am after >> is a board that: >> >> - MUST have a valid MAC address for the on-board ethernet port. >> - MUST support net booting. >> >> As I am in no mood to re-purchase stuff to go with the motherboard I also >> want: >> - a microATX form factor so I can re-use the HTPC case I have. >> - support for the AMD AM2 3200+ CPU >> - support for 533MHz DDR2 memory >> - on-board video good enough to display 1080p OR have a PCI-Expess >> connector that will allow me to re-use my GeForce 7200 card. >> >> Nice to have, but not critical, as I might repurpose the motherboard >> 2-3 years down the road would be: >> - SATA raid support, Gigabit ethernet, firewire, etc... >> >> So, what ASUS motherboards (if any) can make the above cut? > > Well unfortunately for an AMD CPU you only seem to have the choices of > ATI and Nvidia for chipset. I despise ATI chipsets, but unfortunately > it seems you are being hit by the backwards MAC address problem on the > Nvidia board, although I am surprised that could have hit the network > boot code. For an intel CPU you would have a few more choices. Well, if I could even change just the first byte of the MAC address I could be off to the races, but with an invalid value there, and no way to change the MAC address I am @#$%. Colin McGregor > -- > Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 15:51:10 2008 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (Teddy) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:51:10 -0400 Subject: ssh -X Message-ID: <48A5A5EE.5070803@tmis.ca> Today I discovered ssh -X (old new to most TLUG) I was able to run X window applications remotely from a Ubuntu box running X Windows. If I were to run an X-window app from Putty/Windows, would the X-window apps still run? (my guess is no) /teddy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 15:52:57 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:52:57 -0400 Subject: Looking for an ASUS motherboard that net boots... In-Reply-To: References: <20080815141324.GN12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080815155257.GQ12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 10:51:31AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > The board has the MAC address : db:b3:db:60:1d:00 . This is a > broadcast MAC address. So it has address 00:1d:60:db:b3:db when not read in reverse. That would make sense. So you actually see the reversed address in the logs from the network boot server? > If I boot a live CD the the software will detect that I have an > invalid MAC address. The software will then change the MAC address to > a valid value selected at random. This is an issue as the server > software uses the MAC address to know what configuration files to be > loaded into which client machine(s)... Which kernel version are you booting? I see changes were made in the kernel git tree around a year ago (not sure when they entered the release kernels) to fix the fact that some newer nvidia chips (like the MCP61 on your board) in fact are NOT reversed and should not be messed with. All kernels before that fix will get it wrong. > The motherboard sends an invalid MAC address across the network and > any software that respects the IEEE 802 standard will not work. The network boot code does? ouch. That means ASUS stored the MAC address reversed on a board where it shouldn't be, at least if the comments in the kernel code that says MCP61's are never reversed are correct. > The way ASUS could fix this would be to put a valid MAC address into > the BIOS. Alternatively, I gather one of the other motherboard > builders that had the same issue offers a free MS-DOS (gag) utility > that lets you change the MAC address in EEROM to anything you want > (not ideal, but this is a workable solution). If ASUS offered this > change MAC address utility, I could run MS-DOS once, change the MAC > address and have a working netbooting system... Hmm, I thought the MAC address was in the BIOS eeprom. > The whole point of this exercise was to build a small, light weight, > low power, quiet PC. If during set-up I need to connect a floppy drive > or a CD-ROM drive as a one time event, I could live with that. What I > am not willing to tolerate is having to keep any sort of drive > (floppy, optical or hard drive) as a permenate part of the system. Yeah that would defeat the purpose. > Well, if I could even change just the first byte of the MAC address I > could be off to the races, but with an invalid value there, and no way > to change the MAC address I am @#$%. Well the whole address simply needs to be reversed (or possibly not reversed in the first place). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 15:53:17 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:53:17 -0400 Subject: ssh -X In-Reply-To: <48A5A5EE.5070803-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <48A5A5EE.5070803@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420808150853r12c5d39bqb45547f8c2a4b53c@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Teddy wrote: > If I were to run an X-window app from Putty/Windows, would the X-window apps > still run? (my guess is no) I think you can do that if you install the Cygwin X server, but I've never done it myself. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 15:54:06 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:54:06 -0400 Subject: ssh -X In-Reply-To: <48A5A5EE.5070803-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <48A5A5EE.5070803@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <20080815155406.GR12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 11:51:10AM -0400, Teddy wrote: > Today I discovered ssh -X (old new to most TLUG) > > I was able to run X window applications remotely from a Ubuntu box > running X Windows. > If I were to run an X-window app from Putty/Windows, would the X-window > apps still run? (my guess is no) If you have an X server running on windows, and you select the 'forward X session' option in putty, then yes it will. My wife does that at times using cygwin X server with putty. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 15:54:50 2008 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:54:50 -0400 Subject: ssh -X In-Reply-To: <48A5A5EE.5070803-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <48A5A5EE.5070803@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <20080815155450.GB31464@watson-wilson.ca> X is confusing in that it works the opposite from what one expects. To run an X app remotely you need an X server locally. This is because the X server does the rendering. The answer to your Windows question is to have an X server running on your Windows client. I use cygwin. -- Neil Watson System Administrator for hire http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 16:10:18 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 12:10:18 -0400 Subject: ssh -X In-Reply-To: <20080815155450.GB31464-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <48A5A5EE.5070803@tmis.ca> <20080815155450.GB31464@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20080815161018.GS12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 11:54:50AM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > X is confusing in that it works the opposite from what one expects. To > run an X app remotely you need an X server locally. This is because the > X server does the rendering. The answer to your Windows question is to > have an X server running on your Windows client. I use cygwin. No it is perfectly sensible. X is a client-server model. One X server and multiple clients. The server provides services to the clients, in this case X input events and X display output, and possibly also X font services. Too many people think a server is a large computer that runs large programs, and that their computer is a client. That mostly made sense when people used dumb terminals. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 16:20:03 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 12:20:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ssh -X In-Reply-To: <48A5A5EE.5070803-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <48A5A5EE.5070803@tmis.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Aug 2008, Teddy wrote: > Today I discovered ssh -X (old new to most TLUG) Doesn't it just rock :) It's more secure _and_ easier to use than unencrypted network transparency displaying. > I was able to run X window applications remotely from a Ubuntu box > running X Windows. If I were to run an X-window app from Putty/Windows, > would the X-window apps still run? (my guess is no) If you install an X server on MS-Windows you can display X apps there just as you can on Unix or any other OS that supports X. Some MS-Windows X servers allow integration of both X and MS apps on the desktop while others run X in a box. IIRC Cygwin can now do either. One interesting upshot is that you can turn an MS-Windows box running X in to a thin client (XTerminal) for a Unix system (with or without using ssh). Put X in fullscreen mode and you now have the ability to flip between your MS-Windows and Unix desktops with an alt-tab. On the few occassions I've actually _had_ to have an MS-Windows system on the desktop, this is how I survive. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 16:34:05 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 12:34:05 -0400 Subject: D-Bus talk paper and code samples Message-ID: <48A5AFFD.6070001@alteeve.com> As promised, here is a link to the talk I gave on Tuesday on D-Bus. It's on the general wiki which is still very much in development (hint hint). :) http://wiki.tle-bu.org/index.php/D-Bus_Tutorial_and_References Feedback (even negative) is *much* appreciated! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 17:10:08 2008 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken O. Burtch) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ssh -X In-Reply-To: References: <48A5A5EE.5070803@tmis.ca> Message-ID: Yes, it works with Cygwin. There is also free X server for Windows called xming...that may work if you want to stick with putty. I believe ssh -X is deprecated for -Y. Ken B. On Fri, 15 Aug 2008, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Fri, 15 Aug 2008, Teddy wrote: > >> Today I discovered ssh -X (old new to most TLUG) > > Doesn't it just rock :) It's more secure _and_ easier to use than > unencrypted network transparency displaying. > >> I was able to run X window applications remotely from a Ubuntu box running >> X Windows. If I were to run an X-window app from Putty/Windows, would the >> X-window apps still run? (my guess is no) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 17:42:15 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:42:15 -0400 Subject: CD-Rom Drive Not Mounting In-Reply-To: <48A1015D.2020708-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48A1015D.2020708@rogers.com> Message-ID: <48A5BFF7.9060101@rogers.com> I played with cdparanoia a bit. Its output finds the CD-ROM as shown below. So how should I set up fstab? An explanation as to why would be greatly appreciated! Thanks Stephen Checking /dev/sg0 for cdrom... Testing /dev/sg0 for SCSI/MMC interface SG_IO device: /dev/sg0 CDROM model sensed sensed: SONY PS-SYSTEM 302R 4103 Checking for SCSI emulation... Drive is ATAPI (using SG_IO host adaptor emulation) Checking for MMC style command set... Drive is MMC style DMA scatter/gather table entries: 128 table entry size: 16384 bytes maximum theoretical transfer: 891 sectors Setting default read size to 13 sectors (30576 bytes). Verifying CDDA command set... Expected command set reads OK. Table of contents (audio tracks only): track length begin copy pre ch =========================================================== 1. 12180 [02:42.30] 0 [00:00.00] no no 2 2. 14690 [03:15.65] 12180 [02:42.30] no no 2 3. 18067 [04:00.67] 26870 [05:58.20] no no 2 4. 17265 [03:50.15] 44937 [09:59.12] no no 2 5. 23960 [05:19.35] 62202 [13:49.27] no no 2 6. 16858 [03:44.58] 86162 [19:08.62] no no 2 7. 22865 [05:04.65] 103020 [22:53.45] no no 2 8. 22352 [04:58.02] 125885 [27:58.35] no no 2 9. 23218 [05:09.43] 148237 [32:56.37] no no 2 10. 15825 [03:31.00] 171455 [38:06.05] no no 2 11. 15097 [03:21.22] 187280 [41:37.05] no no 2 12. 24670 [05:28.70] 202377 [44:58.27] no no 2 TOTAL 227047 [50:27.22] (audio only) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 17:57:51 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:57:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: odd MAC addresses [was Re: Looking for an ASUS motherboard that net boots...] In-Reply-To: <20080815155257.GQ12475-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080815141324.GN12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080815155257.GQ12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | | On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 10:51:31AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: | > The board has the MAC address : db:b3:db:60:1d:00 . This is a | > broadcast MAC address. | | So it has address 00:1d:60:db:b3:db when not read in reverse. That | would make sense. I had an odd MAC attack yesterday. I have a dual booting PC on my LAN. The MAC address of the ethernet interface is 00:0D:87:03:CA:4F. But in WinXP, my DHCP server seemed to giving it the wrong settings. It turned out that the computer was using MAC address B2:AE:37:E7:B3:30. It seems to be a side effect of "Network Bridge" miniport device or driver. When I got rid of it, the correct MAC address was used. I don't know why the Network Bridge was there; it seemed to want to bridge the firewire and ethernet networks. As with many networking problem, it was difficult to discover the disease from the symptoms. The original symptom was that I could not set up a Linux box to use the printer connected to the Windows box. I could not even see it by "browsing". Compounding this was the fact that I'd not really done this before. I got diverted trying to figure out a known Samba bug (which doesn't seem to affect me). It could be that other aspects of the bridging were actually what interfered with the printer sharing. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 18:02:29 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:02:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CD-Rom Drive Not Mounting In-Reply-To: <48A5BFF7.9060101-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48A1015D.2020708@rogers.com> <48A5BFF7.9060101@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: Stephen | I played with cdparanoia a bit. Its output finds the CD-ROM as shown below. | | So how should I set up fstab? | | An explanation as to why would be greatly appreciated! This CD is an audio CD, not a data CD (assuming I am interpreting the cdparanoia output correctly). There is no audio CD filesystem driver that I know of. So you cannot mount an audio CD. You don't need to mount an audio CD to use it (i.e. play or rip music from it). I don't know why nobody has bothered to write an audio CD filesystem driver. It would expect it to be easy and ever-so-slightly useful. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 18:12:58 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:12:58 -0400 Subject: CD-Rom Drive Not Mounting In-Reply-To: References: <48A1015D.2020708@rogers.com> <48A5BFF7.9060101@rogers.com> Message-ID: <48A5C72A.5010403@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Stephen > > | I played with cdparanoia a bit. Its output finds the CD-ROM as shown below. > | > | So how should I set up fstab? > | > | An explanation as to why would be greatly appreciated! > > This CD is an audio CD, not a data CD (assuming I am interpreting the > cdparanoia output correctly). > > There is no audio CD filesystem driver that I know of. So you cannot > mount an audio CD. > > You don't need to mount an audio CD to use it (i.e. play or rip music > from it). > > I don't know why nobody has bothered to write an audio CD filesystem > driver. It would expect it to be easy and ever-so-slightly useful. > > I am trying to get Sound-Juicer running under Ubuntu on my PS3. SJ errors out at startup claiming that it cannot find a CD-ROM drive. But SJ uses cdparanoia I believe. I am guessing that it is getting something it does not expect when it is initializing. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 21:39:06 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:39:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CD-Rom Drive Not Mounting In-Reply-To: <48A5C72A.5010403-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48A1015D.2020708@rogers.com> <48A5BFF7.9060101@rogers.com> <48A5C72A.5010403@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: Stephen | I am trying to get Sound-Juicer running under Ubuntu on my PS3. Thanks for reminding me. I was too lazy to read the previous messages in this thread. My bad. I find that my earlier message was just an amplification of what Lennart had said earlier: > Audio CDs of course are not mounted > since they have no filesystem, only raw audio data. Those you just play > (or extract). I also find that Giles had made a good suggestion that I suspect would work: > Another possibility is that Sound Juicer expects to find /dev/cdrom > and when it doesn't find that link it gets confused. I've never used > Sound Juicer but I've definitely had this same problem with other > CD-ripping programs: usually all that's required is to either edit the > Sound Juicer config (either through its GUI or the right dotfile) or > just create a soft link from /dev/scd0 to /dev/cdrom . The latter is > probably a good idea anyway. (By "soft link" he means "symbolic link". The command to create them is ln(1) with the flag -s. The symbolic link may well need to be created after each boot. If it works, there may be a less kludgy way of doing this, but try one step at a time for now.) Did you not understand these messages? If so, it probably would be wise to ask about them. I suspect they are exactly what you needed to know. [I wrote the rest before looking at previous messages.] I would have said that Linux on PS3 is an unknown quatity: you are running under a virtual machine and what you see of the real hardware is under its control. This is not the same as running on a common garden variety PC. But your cdparanoia run would seem to suggest that your system has everything you need in the way of access to the CD drive. This says nothing (to me) about access to DVDs. | SJ errors out at startup claiming that it cannot find a CD-ROM drive. | | But SJ uses cdparanoia I believe. | | I am guessing that it is getting something it does not expect when it is | initializing. I would guess that the problem is fixable. I could make random suggestions ("use strace on SJ to figure out if cdparanoia is getting run and if its parameters make sense") but you really are better off asking folks who have a similar system. Offer: buy me a PS3 and I'll figure it out :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 16 01:56:04 2008 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:56:04 -0400 Subject: eee box available: HTPC? Message-ID: Hi all, I just got a newsletter from NCIX advertising the new ASUS Eee Box; what I presume to be one of the first Intel Atom-based desktops. http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=32440&vpn=EBXB202%2DBK%2DX0023&manufacture=ASUS For $370, this seems like a great piece of hardware: Intel Atom N270 Processor Gigabit Ethernet 80 GB hard drive 1GB RAM DVI-Out It comes with WinXP Home Edition -- blech! I wish I could get it $30 cheaper sans OS -- on principle, I guess. But the big question is: could this make a good HD-playing Myth Frontend??? Cheers! Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 16 10:39:02 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 06:39:02 -0400 Subject: Sir Nils Olav: A Penguin gets his Knighthood =) Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808160339i50e7b7f4m92ae5577e3f2f444@mail.gmail.com> Heheh. "Norwegians give penguin knighthood Friday, August 15, 2008 A penguin at Edinburgh Zoo was today knighted by the Norwegian Army. Nils Olav (that's the penguin) is already a Colonel-in-Chief in the Norwegian King's Guard, as well as being their mascot. Over the years, the famous king penguin has been promoted up through the ranks to attain his lofty status." The story continues at: http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/article.html?in_article_id=267826&in_page_id=2 -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 16 11:30:27 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 07:30:27 -0400 Subject: ssh -X In-Reply-To: <48A5A5EE.5070803-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <48A5A5EE.5070803@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <48A6BA53.3000302@rogers.com> Teddy wrote: > > Today I discovered ssh -X (old new to most TLUG) > > I was able to run X window applications remotely from a Ubuntu box > running X Windows. > If I were to run an X-window app from Putty/Windows, would the > X-window apps still run? (my guess is no) > Yes it will, though you have to install & run an X server, such as Xming on the Windows box. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 16 11:31:50 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 07:31:50 -0400 Subject: ssh -X In-Reply-To: <7ac602420808150853r12c5d39bqb45547f8c2a4b53c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <48A5A5EE.5070803@tmis.ca> <7ac602420808150853r12c5d39bqb45547f8c2a4b53c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48A6BAA6.8030601@rogers.com> Ian Petersen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Teddy wrote: > >> If I were to run an X-window app from Putty/Windows, would the X-window apps >> still run? (my guess is no) >> > > I think you can do that if you install the Cygwin X server, but I've > never done it myself. > > I have, but I find Xming is easier to work with, though I find it no longer works with XDMCP, so you can't run a full desktop anymore. It's still fine for running an app via ssh -X/ -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 16 18:21:57 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 14:21:57 -0400 Subject: eee box available: HTPC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am tossing this into the local MythTV mailing list as I think this question would be of interest to both mailing lists... On 8/15/08, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi all, > I just got a newsletter from NCIX advertising the new ASUS Eee Box; > what I presume to be one of the first Intel Atom-based desktops. > http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=32440&vpn=EBXB202%2DBK%2DX0023&manufacture=ASUS > > For $370, this seems like a great piece of hardware: > > Intel Atom N270 Processor > Gigabit Ethernet > 80 GB hard drive > 1GB RAM > DVI-Out > > It comes with WinXP Home Edition -- blech! I wish I could get it $30 > cheaper sans OS -- on principle, I guess. > > But the big question is: could this make a good HD-playing Myth > Frontend??? My take on this.... I would gather that the above CPU runs at 1.60 GHz. Now Pentium 4 CPUs below about 3 GHz are considered iffy for HD playback. Unless the Atom CPU offers far higher performance than the clock speed implies I would be worried. Further, the sort of gold standard for graphics under Linux still seems to nVidia, not sure how well the Intel graphics would stand up under MythTV's abuse... Bottom line, while this box is interesting on multiple levels, small, and low power consumption, I would want someone else to play test subject with this box... Cheaper, if somewhat bigger, higher power consumption, and containing its own potential land mines is to build your own front end box, starting with a microATX motherboard. That can be done easily for under $300, just have to pay close attention to your pick of motherboards, there are some strange ones out there... Colin McGregor > Cheers! > Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 16 19:32:53 2008 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 15:32:53 -0400 Subject: [mythtv-gta]: Re:eee box available: HTPC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I would gather that the above CPU runs at 1.60 GHz. Now Pentium 4 CPUs > below about 3 GHz are considered iffy for HD playback. Unless the Atom > CPU offers far higher performance than the clock speed implies I would > be worried. It seems to; according to this video, it does pretty good with 720p playback, although it seems unusable for 1080p: http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/15/asus-eee-box-b202-detailed-and-tested-on-video/ > Further, the sort of gold standard for graphics under > Linux still seems to nVidia, not sure how well the Intel graphics > would stand up under MythTV's abuse... Bottom line, while this box is > interesting on multiple levels, small, and low power consumption, I > would want someone else to play test subject with this box... Yeah, I agree with that. :-) > > > Cheaper, if somewhat bigger, higher power consumption, and containing > its own potential land mines is to build your own front end box, > starting with a microATX motherboard. That can be done easily for > under $300, just have to pay close attention to your pick of > motherboards, there are some strange ones out there... But you couldn't tuck it behind the big-ass LCD that you're using with it, could you!? :-) Cheers, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 17 00:32:20 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 20:32:20 -0400 Subject: What is "Streamlined Blackhole" Message-ID: <48A77194.2080003@rogers.com> I've been trying to find out why Xming (on Windows) no longer works with XDMCP on SUSE, though it is possible to start an X app, using ssh etc. In comparing Xming with a Linux system connecting with XDMCP, I see the Windows box is using port 1039 as the source UDP port for XDMCP, whereas Linux uses a port over 55,000. Wireshark shows UDP port 1039 as "Streamlined Blackhole", but a Google search doesn't turn up much useful info. Is that port number what's causing the problem? Does anyone know what "Streamlined Blackhole" is? tnx jk -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 17 18:06:43 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 14:06:43 -0400 Subject: googling however would like tlugs opinion Message-ID: <32f6a8880808171106u3411f265je250d5a94b83a9ed@mail.gmail.com> Hi Guys, My wife loves photographs and would like to be able to have a web site sharign photographs? Is there any open source similiar to flickr or a dumbed down one that I can use that any of you can suggest? Or maybe just for personal files before I start coding to make my own :) -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 17 18:14:52 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 14:14:52 -0400 Subject: googling however would like tlugs opinion In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880808171106u3411f265je250d5a94b83a9ed-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880808171106u3411f265je250d5a94b83a9ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48A86A9C.1030800@utoronto.ca> Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi Guys, > > My wife loves photographs and would like to be able to have a web site > sharign photographs? > > Is there any open source similiar to flickr or a dumbed down one that > I can use that any of you can suggest? > > Or maybe just for personal files before I start coding to make my own :) Gallery2 is the standard for online galleries I think. I like Drupal+image module as well, I use it on http://jamon.ca and is has been rock solid. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 17 18:18:35 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 14:18:35 -0400 Subject: googling however would like tlugs opinion In-Reply-To: <48A86A9C.1030800-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880808171106u3411f265je250d5a94b83a9ed@mail.gmail.com> <48A86A9C.1030800@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880808171118p7b1b7bcah7d945828dbbbed8f@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Jamon, I found that link when googling, and you telling me reconfirming I should give it a go :) Thanks :) Looking forward to this :) hehehe. On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Dave Germiquet wrote: >> >> Hi Guys, >> >> My wife loves photographs and would like to be able to have a web site >> sharign photographs? >> >> Is there any open source similiar to flickr or a dumbed down one that >> I can use that any of you can suggest? >> >> Or maybe just for personal files before I start coding to make my own :) > > Gallery2 is the standard for online galleries I think. I like Drupal+image > module as well, I use it on http://jamon.ca and is has been rock solid. > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 17 19:40:22 2008 From: maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 15:40:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: googling however would like tlugs opinion In-Reply-To: <48A86A9C.1030800-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880808171106u3411f265je250d5a94b83a9ed@mail.gmail.com> <48A86A9C.1030800@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Aug 2008, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Dave Germiquet wrote: >> Hi Guys, >> >> My wife loves photographs and would like to be able to have a web site >> sharign photographs? >> >> Is there any open source similiar to flickr or a dumbed down one that >> I can use that any of you can suggest? >> >> Or maybe just for personal files before I start coding to make my own :) > > Gallery2 is the standard for online galleries I think. I like Drupal+image > module as well, I use it on http://jamon.ca and is has been rock solid. Should Gallery2 be installed on the desktop or on the server where the photos reside (if these are not the same)? Gthumb Image Viewer makes decent photo albums (nothing too fancy) without much effort. They allow you to view photos as a slide show, but don't seem to have an option for saving the slide show so that it can be stuck on the web, something I'm still looking for. Alex > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 17 20:04:54 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 16:04:54 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [d@DCC] ACTION Alert: Please support two key govt. ethics lawsuits, and good government campaigns (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808171304t6abe23deq4e702cf35430252e@mail.gmail.com> I apologize in advance for anyone who takes this forwarding wrong. I fully support it however... As attached, - Scott. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Russell McOrmond Date: Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 10:16 AM Subject: [d at DCC] ACTION Alert: Please support two key govt. ethics lawsuits, and good government campaigns (fwd) To: General Copyright Discussions Copyright is often said to be one of the most lobbied areas of public policy, so this should be of interest to this community. -- Russell McOrmond, Internet Consultant: Please help us tell the Canadian Parliament to protect our property rights as owners of Information Technology. Sign the petition! http://digital-copyright.ca/petition/ict/ http://KillBillC61.ca "The government, lobbied by legacy copyright holders and hardware manufacturers, can pry control over my camcorder, computer, home theatre, or portable media player from my cold dead hands!" ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:16:45 -0400 Subject: ACTION Alert: Please support two key govt. ethics lawsuits, and good government campaigns THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO EVERYONE WHO HAS DONATED IN THE PAST YEAR AT: http://www.dwatch.ca/camp/support.html PLEASE PASS THIS MESSAGE ON to everyone you know in Canada, and if you have any questions about this email, contact Democracy Watch by email at: Dear Friend of Democracy, Your help is needed right now to support the campaigns to close the 90 loopholes in the federal government's accountability system, and also to support two key government ethics lawsuits to stop lobbyists from doing favours for politicians they are lobbying, and to stop politicians and government officials from controlling investigations of themselves and their friends when they face accusations of wrongdoing. PLEASE DONATE NOW to help Democracy Watch pay the more than $10,000 in costs of the two key government ethics lawsuits it has filed against the federal Registrar of Lobbyists, and the federal Ethics Commissioner, and to support Democracy Watch's good government campaigns -- See details about the lawsuits and campaigns below (including a sample letter to send to federal political party leaders) and please donate now at: http://www.dwatch.ca/camp/support.html Thank you in advance to all of you who donate and/or send a letter to federal political party leaders in support of Democracy Watch's lawsuits and good government campaigns (and thank you to everyone who has donated or sent a letter in the past year). Sincerely, Duff Conacher, Coordinator Democracy Watch http://www.cleangovernment.ca **************** LAWSUIT #1 - STOP LOBBYISTS FROM DOING FAVOURS FOR CABINET MINISTERS THEY ARE LOBBYING Democracy Watch is challenging the federal Registrar of Lobbyists Michael Nelson in court because he ruled that no ethics rules were broken when a lobbyist organized and held a fundraising event that raised $70,000 for a Cabinet minister at the same time the lobbyist was lobbying the minister's department. If Democracy Watch wins, lobbyists will finally be stopped from doing favours for Cabinet ministers they are lobbying. In an extraordinary ruling, a Federal Court of Appeal Justice has ordered Democracy Watch to pay by August 29th $10,000 in costs in advance of the court hearing or Democracy Watch's appeal will be dismissed!! You can see details about the court case at: http://www.dwatch.ca/camp/RelsAug1508.html ******* LAWSUIT #2 - STOP POLITICIANS AND GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS FROM CONTROLLING INVESTIGATIONS OF THEMSELVES AND THEIR FRIENDS Democracy Watch is challenging the federal Ethics Commissioner Mary Dawson in court because she ruled that Prime Minister Harper and his Cabinet ministers can control the investigation into their actions and the actions of former Conservative Prime Minister Brian Mulroney (even though Mulroney was an advisor to Harper until last November). If Democracy Watch wins, federal politicians and government officials will finally be stopped from controlling investigations about their and their friends' actions. You can see details about the court case at: http://www.dwatch.ca/camp/RelsMay2108.html ******* AND PLEASE SEND A LETTER CALLING ON FEDERAL PARTY LEADERS TO CLEAN UP THE SYSTEM, FINALLY Did you know that, because of loopholes in federal laws (even after the passage of the so-called "Federal Accountability Act"), Karlheinz Schreiber and Brian Mulroney could still be corporate lobbyists in secret today, and Schreiber could still give unlimited amounts of money in secret to all federal politicians after they left office, either as a donation or as payment for lobbying? Did you know that, because of more than 90 loopholes in the federal government's accountability system, it is legal: - to be dishonest in politics; - to make secret unlimited donations to all types of political candidates; - for MPs, riding associations and political parties to have secret trust funds; - to lobby in secret; - to do secret polling with the public paying; - for MPs to switch parties in-between elections just to further their career ambitions; - for the Prime Minister to appoint more than 2,000 law enforcement officers without any public review or hearings (including public inquiry commissioners), and; - for federal politicians, their staff and senior government officials to be involved in policy-making processes in which they have a direct financial interest, and to become lobbyists soon after they leave office? Did you know that the Accountability Act doesn't even protect all federal government employees who blow the whistle on government wrongdoing (and doesn't protect any other whistleblowers at all)? With a federal election very likely happening sometime in the next year, now is a key time to push all federal parties to make strong pledges to close all the loopholes, and strengthen the enforcement and penalties, in the federal government's accountability system. Powerful lobbyists are pushing to weaken the accountability system, and politicians are reluctant to increase their own accountability, so the federal political party leaders need to hear from you or they won't do anything to ensure honest, ethical, open, representative and waste-preventing government. PLEASE GO TO the following Democracy Watch webpage and use the sample letter to send a letter to all federal political party leaders telling them to clean up the federal government's accountability system, finally: http://www.dwatch.ca/camp/actsystem.htm OR GO TO: http://www.goodgovernment.ca AND click on the "Good Government Action Alert" link. To see background information on 16 situations in the past 15 years of federal politics that have revealed the 90 loopholes in the federal government's accountability system, go to: http://www.dwatch.ca/camp/RelsNov0707.html ******* PLEASE ALSO DONATE NOW to help stop dishonest, unethical, secretive, unrepresentative and wasteful politics in Canada at: http://www.dwatch.ca/camp/support.html Democracy Watch does not accept money from governments or large corporations -- without your ongoing support Democracy Watch will have to shut down its good government campaigns (the only such campaigns in Canada) ******* THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for sending your letters, and for your ongoing support of Democracy Watch's good government court cases and campaigns. Sincerely, Duff Conacher, Coordinator Democracy Watch P.O. Box 821, Stn. B Ottawa, Canada K1P 5P9 Tel: (613) 241-5179 Fax: (613) 241-4758 Email: dwatch-xCLmdGRZybU at public.gmane.org Internet: http://www.cleangovernment.ca Since 1993, cleaning up and making governments and corporations more responsible and accountable to you, and making Canada the world's leading democracy -- please donate now at: http://www.dwatch.ca/camp/support.html _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss-WolORMuebV4TBNh8kXeBKqyvx2GgBOVq930Pai70D+E at public.gmane.org http://list.digital-copyright.ca/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 17 21:07:36 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 17:07:36 -0400 Subject: free email relay Message-ID: <32f6a8880808171407w62843ce0o7a99f6498ecd7230@mail.gmail.com> Hi Guys, I need a simple mail server that can send out mail, I have no problem with configuring a mail server onmy side however it appears mail servers are rejecting mail coming from me... Is there any free relay mail servers that I can connect my mail server to? -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 17 21:19:53 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 17:19:53 -0400 Subject: free email relay In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880808171407w62843ce0o7a99f6498ecd7230-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880808171407w62843ce0o7a99f6498ecd7230@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48A895F9.4070704@utoronto.ca> Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I need a simple mail server that can send out mail, I have no problem > with configuring a mail server onmy side however it appears mail > servers are rejecting mail coming from me... > > Is there any free relay mail servers that I can connect my mail server to? Get a domain name and point it at your box. Setup domain keys and spf with corresponding TXT records for DNS and you should be able to send to most servers. Don't forget to check your isp isn't blocking outbound port 25. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 01:29:31 2008 From: spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (R.T.) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 21:29:31 -0400 Subject: googling however would like tlugs opinion In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880808171106u3411f265je250d5a94b83a9ed-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880808171106u3411f265je250d5a94b83a9ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: http://picasa.google.com/ Judging by your email address, you won't need to make an additional account. On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi Guys, > > My wife loves photographs and would like to be able to have a web site > sharign photographs? > > Is there any open source similiar to flickr or a dumbed down one that > I can use that any of you can suggest? > > Or maybe just for personal files before I start coding to make my own :) > > > -- > > > > The man who is always a newbie at something, > Dave Germiquet > > Everytime I learn something new, > I realize I know very little. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 03:09:18 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 23:09:18 -0400 Subject: googling however would like tlugs opinion In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880808171106u3411f265je250d5a94b83a9ed-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880808171106u3411f265je250d5a94b83a9ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48A8E7DE.7010509@telly.org> Dave Germiquet wrote: > My wife loves photographs and would like to be able to have a web site > sharign photographs? > If you don't want to roll your own, I'm satisfied with Google's free Picassa service. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 10:59:45 2008 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 06:59:45 -0400 Subject: googling however would like tlugs opinion In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880808171106u3411f265je250d5a94b83a9ed-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>; from davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 14:06:43 -0400 References: <32f6a8880808171106u3411f265je250d5a94b83a9ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080818105945.GC1428@localhost> On Sun Aug 17,2008 02:06:43 PM Dave Germiquet wrote: > Is there any open source similiar to flickr or a dumbed down > one that I can use that any of you can suggest? I've been using an older (and slightly modified/customised by myself) version of My Photo Gallery -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 11:07:20 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 07:07:20 -0400 Subject: googling however would like tlugs opinion In-Reply-To: <48A8E7DE.7010509-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880808171106u3411f265je250d5a94b83a9ed@mail.gmail.com> <48A8E7DE.7010509@telly.org> Message-ID: <48A957E8.8050407@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Dave Germiquet wrote: > >> My wife loves photographs and would like to be able to have a web site >> sharign photographs? >> >> > If you don't want to roll your own, I'm satisfied with Google's free > Picassa service. > > Does that imply that if he does want to roll his own, you're not satisfied with Picassa? ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 12:43:04 2008 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:43:04 -0400 Subject: googling however would like tlugs opinion In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880808171106u3411f265je250d5a94b83a9ed-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880808171106u3411f265je250d5a94b83a9ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You can build one in Drupal: http://tinyurl.com/378r9l Also there are some really cool templates for Movable Type: http://tinyurl.com/6hqkju but Movable Type sucks. What kind of features are you looking for? A Photo Blog or Photo Gallery? On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi Guys, > > My wife loves photographs and would like to be able to have a web site > sharign photographs? > > Is there any open source similiar to flickr or a dumbed down one that > I can use that any of you can suggest? > > Or maybe just for personal files before I start coding to make my own :) > > > -- > > > > The man who is always a newbie at something, > Dave Germiquet > > Everytime I learn something new, > I realize I know very little. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ Please consider the trees before print this email. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 13:11:22 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:11:22 -0400 Subject: Bill C-61 site... Message-ID: Small note, there is now a site to send "stop bill C-61" e-mails to your member of Parliament: www.copyrightforcanadians.ca/action/firstlook/ Basicly, look up who your MP is, enter your name, address (e-mail and postal). Then a few mouse clicks later your e-mail is off and away. The form letter is ... a little bland, but polite and respectful, overall fairly good. Also, of note the e-mail in the above would be an excellent starting point for a postal mail (a little harder to ignore than an e-mail) to your MP. Of particular interest to me would be the negative impacts C-61 would have on Linux (and other free OSs like FreeBSD), plus the negative impact on writers in Canada. Remember that you can petition your MP for free, a letter to your MP does NOT require any postage... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 13:15:33 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:15:33 -0400 Subject: googling however would like tlugs opinion In-Reply-To: References: <32f6a8880808171106u3411f265je250d5a94b83a9ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880808180615w3c3a7c5dp34b1f1d04414e10a@mail.gmail.com> Hi Guys, Gallery2 appears to be what I need. I got an internal server error when I tried to use picassa as well as there is a 1 Gig limit on you. So if you have more than a gig a photoes your messed. Gallery2 appears to have alot of options and can have many users (even though I dont need it). I was basically looking for a site where my wife could share photos with her family over a slow internet connection, so they couldn't download 140 gigs all at once :) Gallery2 is very good, there was also another one I saw but it was more of a Forums type interface. The other nice thing that Gallery2 appears to have is to send Ecards, apply music and slide shows :) I haven't tried the latter of the 2 functions. On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > You can build one in Drupal: http://tinyurl.com/378r9l > > Also there are some really cool templates for Movable Type: > http://tinyurl.com/6hqkju but > Movable Type sucks. > > What kind of features are you looking for? A Photo Blog or Photo Gallery? > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: >> Hi Guys, >> >> My wife loves photographs and would like to be able to have a web site >> sharign photographs? >> >> Is there any open source similiar to flickr or a dumbed down one that >> I can use that any of you can suggest? >> >> Or maybe just for personal files before I start coding to make my own :) >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> The man who is always a newbie at something, >> Dave Germiquet >> >> Everytime I learn something new, >> I realize I know very little. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > Myles Braithwaite > me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org > http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ > > Please consider the trees before print this email. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 13:16:11 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:16:11 -0400 Subject: googling however would like tlugs opinion In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880808180615w3c3a7c5dp34b1f1d04414e10a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880808171106u3411f265je250d5a94b83a9ed@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880808180615w3c3a7c5dp34b1f1d04414e10a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880808180616r7b8eba40w6128f30812222c48@mail.gmail.com> By the way that should be 140 MB not gigs... i do not have 140 gigs of photos lol :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 13:29:13 2008 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:29:13 -0400 Subject: Bill C-61 site... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080818132913.GD5067@watson-wilson.ca> I mailed the Markham Liberal MP, a liberal, a few months ago. His response was that he will look into it before voting one way or the other. I can post a copy here if anyone is interested. -- Neil Watson System Administrator for hire http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 14:12:55 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:12:55 -0400 Subject: Bill C-61 site... In-Reply-To: <20080818132913.GD5067-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20080818132913.GD5067@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880808180712k540e1748xfca15cedb50e96d1@mail.gmail.com> I did it a few months ago, Jack Layton said he was against it and will speak about it or something.. I can send the email he forwarded me too.. and the response i got back from the guy for it.. On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > I mailed the Markham Liberal MP, a liberal, a few months ago. His > response was that he will look into it before voting one way or the > other. I can post a copy here if anyone is interested. > > -- > Neil Watson > System Administrator for hire http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 14:14:22 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:14:22 -0400 Subject: Bill C-61 site... In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880808180712k540e1748xfca15cedb50e96d1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080818132913.GD5067@watson-wilson.ca> <32f6a8880808180712k540e1748xfca15cedb50e96d1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880808180714p2979bc77r5cfde2a8af48fba8@mail.gmail.com> This guy, responded with a generic response not addressing the concerns saying everything is fine with the bill: The Honourable Jos?e Verner Minister of Canadian Heritage, Status of Women and Official Languages and Minister for la Francophonie The Honourable Jim Prentice Minister of Industry I sent him questions and he never responded back to them, (from his response) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 14:42:38 2008 From: spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (R.T.) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:42:38 -0400 Subject: Bill C-61 site... In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880808180712k540e1748xfca15cedb50e96d1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080818132913.GD5067@watson-wilson.ca> <32f6a8880808180712k540e1748xfca15cedb50e96d1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Charlie Angus has been vocal about this... here's the relevant video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufV6LYXy7iI http://www.charlieangus.net/houseitem.php?id=100 On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 10:12 AM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > I did it a few months ago, Jack Layton said he was against it and will > speak about it or something.. I can send the email he forwarded me > too.. and the response i got back > from the guy for it.. > > On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Neil Watson wrote: >> I mailed the Markham Liberal MP, a liberal, a few months ago. His >> response was that he will look into it before voting one way or the >> other. I can post a copy here if anyone is interested. >> >> -- >> Neil Watson >> System Administrator for hire http://watson-wilson.ca >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > > > > The man who is always a newbie at something, > Dave Germiquet > > Everytime I learn something new, > I realize I know very little. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 15:12:53 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:12:53 -0400 Subject: eee box available: HTPC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080818151253.GT12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 09:56:04PM -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi all, > I just got a newsletter from NCIX advertising the new ASUS Eee Box; > what I presume to be one of the first Intel Atom-based desktops. > > http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=32440&vpn=EBXB202%2DBK%2DX0023&manufacture=ASUS > > For $370, this seems like a great piece of hardware: > > Intel Atom N270 Processor > Gigabit Ethernet > 80 GB hard drive > 1GB RAM > DVI-Out > > It comes with WinXP Home Edition -- blech! I wish I could get it $30 > cheaper sans OS -- on principle, I guess. > > But the big question is: could this make a good HD-playing Myth > Frontend??? Not sure what video chip is in them, although probable one of the integrated intel chips. Depending on the chip, it might have enough power in the video chip to accelerate the video decoding enough to do HD. The CPU by itself probably can't do it. It is a nice little box though. Hmm, a quick search says the video is a GMA950 design, which by what I can find is not powerful enough to decode 1080i (or 1080p or 720p for that matter). Perhaps the hardware could help, but it seems the X drivers aren't that good yet. The CPU might also be too wimpy for HDTV. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 15:13:44 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:13:44 -0400 Subject: [mythtv-gta]: Re:eee box available: HTPC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080818151344.GU12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 02:21:57PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > My take on this.... > > I would gather that the above CPU runs at 1.60 GHz. Now Pentium 4 CPUs > below about 3 GHz are considered iffy for HD playback. Unless the Atom > CPU offers far higher performance than the clock speed implies I would > be worried. Further, the sort of gold standard for graphics under > Linux still seems to nVidia, not sure how well the Intel graphics > would stand up under MythTV's abuse... Bottom line, while this box is > interesting on multiple levels, small, and low power consumption, I > would want someone else to play test subject with this box... Anything short of a cyrix offers more performance per clock than a pentium 4. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 15:18:40 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:18:40 -0400 Subject: eee box available: HTPC? In-Reply-To: <20080818151253.GT12475-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080818151253.GT12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <48A992D0.7080501@telly.org> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 09:56:04PM -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I just got a newsletter from NCIX advertising the new ASUS Eee Box; >> what I presume to be one of the first Intel Atom-based desktops. >> > Not sure what video chip is in them, although probable one of the > integrated intel chips. Depending on the chip, it might have enough > power in the video chip to accelerate the video decoding enough to do > HD. The CPU by itself probably can't do it. > I'm working with a netbook company whose system uses a VIA processor (much lower energy draw than Intel); its video chipset definitely uses HW decoding, to make video playback acceptable with such a low-voltage CPU. Whether such systems would be good as Myth front-ends, tho, I'm not so sure. Try to get a hands-on demo. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 15:20:44 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:20:44 -0400 Subject: What is "Streamlined Blackhole" In-Reply-To: <48A77194.2080003-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48A77194.2080003@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080818152044.GV12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 08:32:20PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > I've been trying to find out why Xming (on Windows) no longer works with > XDMCP on SUSE, though it is possible to start an X app, using ssh etc. > In comparing Xming with a Linux system connecting with XDMCP, I see the > Windows box is using port 1039 as the source UDP port for XDMCP, whereas > Linux uses a port over 55,000. Wireshark shows UDP port 1039 as > "Streamlined Blackhole", but a Google search doesn't turn up much useful > info. Is that port number what's causing the problem? Does anyone know > what "Streamlined Blackhole" is? It is possible windows simply starts using "random" source ports at 1024 and counts up and happened to get to 1039 when it started XDMCP. Linux tries to use source ports in the high end of the port numbers first. Windows never has been known to follow best practices or standards or RFCs before, so why start now. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 15:21:16 2008 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:21:16 -0400 Subject: eee box available: HTPC? In-Reply-To: <48A992D0.7080501-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080818151253.GT12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48A992D0.7080501@telly.org> Message-ID: <7CD023A4-87B5-4466-937D-6AFEF1AAC802@gmail.com> >> >> > I'm working with a netbook company whose system uses a VIA processor > (much lower energy draw than Intel); its video chipset definitely uses > HW decoding, to make video playback acceptable with such a low- > voltage CPU. > > Whether such systems would be good as Myth front-ends, tho, I'm not so > sure. Try to get a hands-on demo. > The Eeebox definitely handles 720p. Personally, I consider that sufficient for my needs; I don't need the biggest and best available! Cheers, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 15:25:34 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:25:34 -0400 Subject: eee box available: HTPC? In-Reply-To: <7CD023A4-87B5-4466-937D-6AFEF1AAC802-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20080818151253.GT12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48A992D0.7080501@telly.org> <7CD023A4-87B5-4466-937D-6AFEF1AAC802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080818152534.GW12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 11:21:16AM -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: > The Eeebox definitely handles 720p. Personally, I consider that > sufficient for my needs; I don't need the biggest and best available! If I buy anything HDTV, 1080p is the only option I am willing to consider. I only do things once if I can, so I do them right the first time. So until I can afford proper 1080p, I will stick with what I have and the fact NTSC isn't that good. :) And it handles 720p what? Not all content it compressed the same way and decoding it varies. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 15:27:48 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:27:48 -0400 Subject: googling however would like tlugs opinion In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880808180616r7b8eba40w6128f30812222c48-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880808171106u3411f265je250d5a94b83a9ed@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880808180615w3c3a7c5dp34b1f1d04414e10a@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880808180616r7b8eba40w6128f30812222c48@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080818152748.GX12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 09:16:11AM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > By the way that should be 140 MB not gigs... i do not have 140 gigs of > photos lol :) I know a few people that do. :) These are the people that claim a 1GB CF card is like a roll of film and going through a pile of them in a day is perfectly normal. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 17:07:49 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 13:07:49 -0400 Subject: Flash on PS3 Message-ID: <20080818130749.2b0421bb@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Got a buddy who installed XUbuntu on his PS3, and we're trying to figure out whether or not it is possible to have Flash working within the Linux OS. What's confusing us is that Flash works in the browser from the PS3's default system, but I've read in a couple of places that there is _no_ working flash for the PS3's PPC architecture. I've tried the installer from Adobe, which just errors out about not being compatible with PPC arch's, and the packaged version from Ubuntu which is apparently equivalent to about Flash 7. No good. Anyone got this working? -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: Yeah, well I'm gonna build my own lunar space lander! With blackjack aaaaannd Hookers! Actually, forget the space lander, and the blackjack. Ahhhh forget the whole thing! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 20:47:23 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:47:23 -0400 Subject: Dovecot, sieve and vacation scripts Message-ID: <20080818204723.GA14262@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I have a postfix+dovecot+amavis+clamav+sieve mail setup with virtual users. It works very nicely, and I have found a way, with .dovecot.sieve files to set up out of office vacation messages using vacation. The problem is, to write a .dovecot.sieve without my intervention, but without opening the box to probable compromise. Ideally, I'd like a web page where my users could go, log in, and set out of office messages, and they would expire without me doing anything about it. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 00:17:56 2008 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:17:56 -0400 Subject: free email relay In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880808171407w62843ce0o7a99f6498ecd7230-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880808171407w62843ce0o7a99f6498ecd7230@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I need a simple mail server that can send out mail, I have no problem > with configuring a mail server onmy side however it appears mail > servers are rejecting mail coming from me... > > Is there any free relay mail servers that I can connect my mail server to? I just setup esmtp to deliver mail from my self-hosted Drupal install using Gmail's servers... A few helpful links: http://esmtp.sourceforge.net/doc.html http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=13287 If you are on a Debian-based setup... download a few packages... apt-get install esmtp esmtp-run mailutils ca-certificates ... edit system-wide esmtprc config to use Gmail as the MTA... identity="" hostname=smtp.gmail.com:587 username="" password="" starttls=required ... if you are using a php app like Drupal... edit /etc/php5/apache2/php.ini by looking for the sendmail line and editing with... sendmail_path = /usr/bin/esmtp -t -i ... save and reload apache. Cool and light solution with good documentation/man pages... I am going to use it for sending mail from my domain, and use Google Apps to receive it. Hope this helps... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 00:56:22 2008 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:56:22 -0400 Subject: Bill C-61 site... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48AA1A36.8000506@golden.net> Colin McGregor wrote: > Small note, there is now a site to send "stop bill C-61" e-mails to > your member of Parliament: > > www.copyrightforcanadians.ca/action/firstlook/ > > Thanks Done! 2nd Time for me on this topic. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 03:32:57 2008 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:32:57 -0600 Subject: OT: CPU Fan noise reduction Message-ID: <48AA3EE9.80508@ualberta.ca> Hello, I often have the problem that my machine (HP Pavilion a1620n, P4 dual-core 3.0 GHz) gets quite noisy. I'm using the fan that first came with the machine. By process of elimination << stabbing a pen into each fan :) >> I've found that it's my CPU fan that is going wild. I've removed it and dusted it off time and again but it doesn't seem to help. My BIOS gives me: CPU Temp 56 C CPU Fan Speed ~ 3200 RPM System Fan Speed ~ 1600 RPM So I have two questions. I'm running Ubuntu 8.04. I would like to know if there exists a software which can read the temperature and CPU fan revs. Can any software actually do this? (Is there some mechanism that passes this info onto the OS) I think I need to replace the thing. A bit of Googling has given me a few recommendations, but I'd still like to know if anybody has been in my situation before; what fan + heat sink did you buy to replace it, and based on that would you recommend that fan + heat sink, and where could I go to buy it? (I'd prefer in person than online) Thanks, Marc -- A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems. -- Alfr?d R?nyi (also attributed to Paul Erd?s) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 03:52:30 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:52:30 -0400 Subject: Linux on my PS3 Message-ID: <48AA437E.9090907@rogers.com> Linux on the PS3 When SONY won the hi-def wars last February I decided it was time to buy a Blu-ray player. I buy movies and wanted to move to the new media format. I was advised that the PS3 was the best choice in a Blu-ray player. It was cheaper that straight players because SONY was competing in the game player market. I have no interest in computer gaming, so this was strictly a price decision. I put my neglected home theatre together again and watched 2001. I was blown away. The picture was outstanding and there was no compromise on the sound. Well, maybe a bit. My Onkyo receiver is vintage 2000 and has no HDMI input. So I send sound (and video) directly to the TV (Samsung 48? 120Hz LCD) and then optically to the receiver. In going through the manual I saw that CDs could be ripped to the PS3 in a lossless format. (I never bought into MP3. I barely accept CDs). I had trouble getting the PS3 connected to the Internet because of the construction in my condo. Wireless could not reach. I finally ran wire and that is working. I saw that the PS3 could run other OS?s (!). The Playlist functionality of the PS3 is rather lame and my open source software on Linux gives me the organization capability I wanted. So I check it out and see that my favourite distro, Ubuntu, has a PS3 project. The code is compiled to native PPC chip code. There is a ?Live CD? to get started and install from a Linux environment. I got a large (256GB) drive to replace the 40GB in the PS3. I could not get the screws out of the drive cradle. This is a known problem and SONY mailed me a new cradle and screws. Installing Linux has three big speed bumps, but there is good documentation to get by them. You must partition the disk manually. The automatic process will stall. It is also necessary to kill unneeded processes. Lastly the desktop does not fit on the TV screen. You need the docs to tab around blind as you fill in the install data elements. The Live CD is painfully slow, but performance once installed is good. The RAM is low, at 256K but there are two PPC processors. A significant obstacle is that I could not get music CDs recognized under Linux on the PS3. When playing movies and CDs on the PS3 I will do so under the PS3 OS. But I had to rip the CDs on my desktop Ubuntu system and copy via USB stick to the PS3. Going forward, I think I will want to keep the music files on my desktop computer. I expect to add another PS3 for my office when my bank account allows. To play Blu-ray movies and also music from my library. So a centralized music library makes sense. That means a large drive on the PS3 is not necessary. I will use it elsewhere. I need to learn about network file sharing under Linux and also remote desktop operation. To live is to learn. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 03:58:09 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:58:09 -0400 Subject: OT: CPU Fan noise reduction In-Reply-To: <48AA3EE9.80508-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <48AA3EE9.80508@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880808182058h352a2cc0m471476cea29eec96@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I use lm_sensors with kima to get that information with kubuntu. On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 11:32 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > Hello, > > I often have the problem that my machine (HP Pavilion a1620n, P4 dual-core > 3.0 GHz) gets quite noisy. I'm using the fan that first came with the > machine. By process of elimination << stabbing a pen into each fan :) >> > I've found that it's my CPU fan that is going wild. I've removed it and > dusted it off time and again but it doesn't seem to help. > > My BIOS gives me: > > CPU Temp 56 C > CPU Fan Speed ~ 3200 RPM > System Fan Speed ~ 1600 RPM > > So I have two questions. > > I'm running Ubuntu 8.04. I would like to know if there exists a software > which can read the temperature and CPU fan revs. Can any software actually > do this? (Is there some mechanism that passes this info onto the OS) > > I think I need to replace the thing. A bit of Googling has given me a few > recommendations, but I'd still like to know if anybody has been in my > situation before; what fan + heat sink did you buy to replace it, and based > on that would you recommend that fan + heat sink, and where could I go to > buy it? (I'd prefer in person than online) > > Thanks, > Marc > > -- > A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems. > -- Alfr?d R?nyi (also attributed to Paul Erd?s) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 04:02:03 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 00:02:03 -0400 Subject: Remote Control Software Message-ID: <48AA45BB.3060900@rogers.com> I have two requirements. 1) I have Linux on a PS3 and I want to control it from my desktop Linux system. Most commonly creating playlists of music and launching the music player. 2) I will be working on the road again beginning next week. I want to be able to do my development of web sites (using PHP) from my hotel room. I need to connect my laptop (Windows) through the Internet, through my router/firewall to my Linux desktop. I want to run my editor and test using the Firefox browser. Advise on what I should look at is requested and appreciated! Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 04:34:23 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 00:34:23 -0400 Subject: OT: CPU Fan noise reduction In-Reply-To: <48AA3EE9.80508-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <48AA3EE9.80508@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: On 8/18/08, Marc Lanctot wrote: > Hello, > > I often have the problem that my machine (HP Pavilion a1620n, P4 > dual-core 3.0 GHz) gets quite noisy. I'm using the fan that first came > with the machine. By process of elimination << stabbing a pen into each > fan :) >> I've found that it's my CPU fan that is going wild. I've > removed it and dusted it off time and again but it doesn't seem to help. > > My BIOS gives me: > > CPU Temp 56 C > CPU Fan Speed ~ 3200 RPM > System Fan Speed ~ 1600 RPM > > So I have two questions. > > I'm running Ubuntu 8.04. I would like to know if there exists a software > which can read the temperature and CPU fan revs. Can any software > actually do this? (Is there some mechanism that passes this info onto > the OS) > > I think I need to replace the thing. A bit of Googling has given me a > few recommendations, but I'd still like to know if anybody has been in > my situation before; what fan + heat sink did you buy to replace it, and > based on that would you recommend that fan + heat sink, and where could > I go to buy it? (I'd prefer in person than online) I ran into this issue with my MythTV box, the CPU fan being far louder than I was happy with. What I found out was that the better CPU fans print the noise level in dBA (with lower being better) on the package. The CPU fan I got would not help you, it was a Thermaltake TR2-R1, which is for selected AMD CPUs... This fan produces 16 dBA, compared to 34 dBA for a stock AMD fan. Basically I have been happy with this CPU fan, about the worst that could be said for it is that it made me aware of how loud the power supply fan was ... which I ended up replacing later ... As for where to go, I bought the Thermaltake fan at the Tiger Direct shop in Etobicoke (they have a few locations around the GTA). Tiger Direct is on many things not the cheapest shop around, on the other hand there is something to be said for the large selection of parts laid out in supermarket style shelves so you can easily compare details like noise levels. > Thanks, > Marc Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 11:40:55 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 07:40:55 -0400 Subject: Remote Control Software In-Reply-To: <48AA45BB.3060900-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48AA45BB.3060900@rogers.com> Message-ID: <48AAB147.1010209@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > I have two requirements. > > 1) I have Linux on a PS3 and I want to control it from my desktop > Linux system. Most commonly creating playlists of music and launching > the music player. > > 2) I will be working on the road again beginning next week. I want to > be able to do my development of web sites (using PHP) from my hotel > room. I need to connect my laptop (Windows) through the Internet, > through my router/firewall to my Linux desktop. I want to run my > editor and test using the Firefox browser. > > Advise on what I should look at is requested and appreciated! > You want Xming and Putty. Xming is an X server and Putty is an SSH client. Then you'll have to configure your firewall to pass SSH (TCP port 22) to your computer. Once that's done, to run an app, start Xming and then at the command prompt use the command ssh -X to connect to your system and then issue the command to start the application. You'll probably want to add " &" at the end of the command, to free up the prompt for other commands. The remote app should now appear on your Windows desktop. Once you've verified that works, you should be able to create icons for starting your apps, on the Windows desktop, by using Xlaunch (part of Xming). http://www.straightrunning.com/XmingNotes http://www.putty.org -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 14:00:03 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:00:03 -0400 Subject: OT: CPU Fan noise reduction In-Reply-To: <48AA3EE9.80508-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <48AA3EE9.80508@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <20080819140003.GY12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 09:32:57PM -0600, Marc Lanctot wrote: > I often have the problem that my machine (HP Pavilion a1620n, P4 > dual-core 3.0 GHz) gets quite noisy. I'm using the fan that first came > with the machine. By process of elimination << stabbing a pen into each > fan :) >> I've found that it's my CPU fan that is going wild. I've > removed it and dusted it off time and again but it doesn't seem to help. > > My BIOS gives me: > > CPU Temp 56 C > CPU Fan Speed ~ 3200 RPM > System Fan Speed ~ 1600 RPM > > So I have two questions. > > I'm running Ubuntu 8.04. I would like to know if there exists a software > which can read the temperature and CPU fan revs. Can any software > actually do this? (Is there some mechanism that passes this info onto > the OS) > > I think I need to replace the thing. A bit of Googling has given me a > few recommendations, but I'd still like to know if anybody has been in > my situation before; what fan + heat sink did you buy to replace it, and > based on that would you recommend that fan + heat sink, and where could > I go to buy it? (I'd prefer in person than online) Well the dual core P4 is probably the most power inefficient CPUs ever made, and runs quite hot and hence needs a lot of cooling (and even then it might throthle itself down to stay cool and hence run up to 50% slower than specced). Certainly a higher quality fan (probably runs around $40 or so) could make it quieter, although being an HP pavilion there may not be room for another fan since they tend to use plastic airducts to control the air flow in their stupid little cases. It might be simpler to simply buy a better machine (which these days seems fairly easy to get for $500 or so) which can actually take standard (and quiet) parts. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 14:32:49 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:32:49 -0400 Subject: Remote Control Software In-Reply-To: <48AAB147.1010209-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48AA45BB.3060900@rogers.com> <48AAB147.1010209@rogers.com> Message-ID: <48AAD991.3020102@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > Stephen wrote: >> I have two requirements. >> >> 1) I have Linux on a PS3 and I want to control it from my desktop >> Linux system. Most commonly creating playlists of music and launching >> the music player. >> >> 2) I will be working on the road again beginning next week. I want to >> be able to do my development of web sites (using PHP) from my hotel >> room. I need to connect my laptop (Windows) through the Internet, >> through my router/firewall to my Linux desktop. I want to run my >> editor and test using the Firefox browser. >> >> Advise on what I should look at is requested and appreciated! >> > > You want Xming and Putty. Xming is an X server and Putty is an SSH > client. Then you'll have to configure your firewall to pass SSH (TCP > port 22) to your computer. Once that's done, to run an app, start Xming > and then at the command prompt use the command ssh -X to connect > to your system and then issue the command to start the application. > You'll probably want to add " &" at the end of the command, to free up > the prompt for other commands. The remote app should now appear on your > Windows desktop. Once you've verified that works, you should be able to > create icons for starting your apps, on the Windows desktop, by using > Xlaunch (part of Xming). I forgot to mention, you'll probably want to configure SSH to use only RSA keys and not a password. This makes it far more secure from dictionary attacks. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 15:37:56 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 11:37:56 -0400 Subject: HDD Dying - Get an alert when remounting RO? Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808190837w2def1fdes218ee4b84cfb2eaf@mail.gmail.com> Looks like I've a got an HDD dying out on me - over the last few days there's been lots of issues. fsck refuses to auto-correct problems (ala -p) and manual checks (-fvC) are returning ~ 20 bad blocks per run. I'll be replacing the drive soon enough, but in the meantime is there a way I can be notified (audio/popup/other) when the root drive is remounted as read only? The tired machine in question is running Gnome under Ubuntu Edgy Eft. TIA, - Scott. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 15:52:56 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 11:52:56 -0400 Subject: Bill C-61 site... In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880808180714p2979bc77r5cfde2a8af48fba8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080818132913.GD5067@watson-wilson.ca> <32f6a8880808180712k540e1748xfca15cedb50e96d1@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880808180714p2979bc77r5cfde2a8af48fba8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808190852g352b130dkfbc8023a1fa5ed73@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > This guy, responded with a generic response not addressing the > concerns saying everything is fine with the bill: > > The Honourable Jos?e Verner > Minister of Canadian Heritage, Status of Women and Official Languages > and Minister for la Francophonie > > The Honourable Jim Prentice > Minister of Industry > > I sent him questions and he never responded back to them, (from his response) If I'm not mistaken, the "honourable" ministers of Heritage and Industry are the ones pushing the bill. Of course there are certain lobbies pushing them too, but that's hardly an excuse when citizens rights are on the line. This has been going on for... what 8 years or so now? When did the rights of virtual entities (read: corporations) become more important than those of real entites (read: people)? Rrrgh. I'm planning to ask that question at the Oakville Townhall tomorrow. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 17:24:23 2008 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 11:24:23 -0600 Subject: HDD Dying - Get an alert when remounting RO? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0808190837w2def1fdes218ee4b84cfb2eaf-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0808190837w2def1fdes218ee4b84cfb2eaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48AB01C7.2020108@ualberta.ca> Scott Elcomb wrote: > Looks like I've a got an HDD dying out on me - over the last few days > there's been lots of issues. fsck refuses to auto-correct problems > (ala -p) and manual checks (-fvC) are returning ~ 20 bad blocks per > run. > > I'll be replacing the drive soon enough, but in the meantime is there > a way I can be notified (audio/popup/other) when the root drive is > remounted as read only? > > The tired machine in question is running Gnome under Ubuntu Edgy Eft. > I can't be of much help, but for what it's worth: I've attached a little script I used from time to time to alert me of random things by using at. If you put the following into a script and keep it running in a terminal, it will do what you want. Not the best way to do it, but it should work. #!/bin/sh HOME=/path/to/a/directory/on/the/root/drive DELAY=5 while /bin/true do sleep $DELAY touch $HOME/testfile || alert "Read-only :(" done I'm getting the same problems with one of my drives .. it's a Samsung that came with the machine. I'd like a recommendation on hard drive quality. A quick inspection tells me that Seagate is the classic best but that Maxtor/Quantum is catching up. I have a second Western Digital that has never had problems, but I heard they're quite slow so I kept it as a storage/backup drive. This will be my main drive so I don't care how much it costs as long as it will will be reliable. Thanks, Marc -- Impatience is the sign of a practical mind. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: alert URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 18:04:25 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:04:25 -0400 Subject: HDD Dying - Get an alert when remounting RO? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0808190837w2def1fdes218ee4b84cfb2eaf-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0808190837w2def1fdes218ee4b84cfb2eaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080819180425.GZ12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 11:37:56AM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Looks like I've a got an HDD dying out on me - over the last few days > there's been lots of issues. fsck refuses to auto-correct problems > (ala -p) and manual checks (-fvC) are returning ~ 20 bad blocks per > run. > > I'll be replacing the drive soon enough, but in the meantime is there > a way I can be notified (audio/popup/other) when the root drive is > remounted as read only? I would say replacing it yesterday isn't soon enough. It may last another month with slow error increase, or it might die completely 5 minutes from now. > The tired machine in question is running Gnome under Ubuntu Edgy Eft. I don't think any such utility exists, since really when would anyone have a need for such a thing? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 18:09:01 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:09:01 -0400 Subject: HDD Dying - Get an alert when remounting RO? In-Reply-To: <48AB01C7.2020108-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0808190837w2def1fdes218ee4b84cfb2eaf@mail.gmail.com> <48AB01C7.2020108@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <20080819180901.GA12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 11:24:23AM -0600, Marc Lanctot wrote: > I can't be of much help, but for what it's worth: I've attached a little > script I used from time to time to alert me of random things by using > at. If you put the following into a script and keep it running in a > terminal, it will do what you want. Not the best way to do it, but it > should work. > > #!/bin/sh > HOME=/path/to/a/directory/on/the/root/drive > DELAY=5 > > while /bin/true > do > sleep $DELAY > touch $HOME/testfile || alert "Read-only :(" > done > > I'm getting the same problems with one of my drives .. it's a Samsung > that came with the machine. I'd like a recommendation on hard drive > quality. A quick inspection tells me that Seagate is the classic best > but that Maxtor/Quantum is catching up. I have a second Western Digital > that has never had problems, but I heard they're quite slow so I kept it > as a storage/backup drive. This will be my main drive so I don't care > how much it costs as long as it will will be reliable. I won't deal with seagate until they some day stop screwing up their firmware. The number of controllers for SATA that have had trouble with seagate because they got clever in interpreting the spec is just stupid, and they don't seem to have been particularly good at fixing that. The drives might last quite well, if you ever get them to work with your system in the first place. Of course in my previous job, I saw no end of failed SCSI drives which said IBM on them but were seagate drives inside. They had a higher failure rate than the IBM deskstars and even the old 40GB insta death maxtors. I will stick with WD for now. Speed isn't everything. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 19:51:03 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:51:03 -0400 Subject: HDD Dying - Get an alert when remounting RO? In-Reply-To: <20080819180425.GZ12475-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0808190837w2def1fdes218ee4b84cfb2eaf@mail.gmail.com> <20080819180425.GZ12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808191251m16f292blfe273189a6473b30@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 2:04 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 11:37:56AM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> The tired machine in question is running Gnome under Ubuntu Edgy Eft. > > I don't think any such utility exists, since really when would anyone > have a need for such a thing? Because I don't know that errors were detected until running applications can no longer write to the filesystem. I'll replace the drive in a few days, maybe a week. As a temporary bandage, if there's a particular beep or popup message that lets me know the drive's having trouble then: a) I know immediately what trouble's afoot and b) perhaps I can script something to mount a loopback for temporary files. When Gnome's running and the FSs goes RO I can no longer open gnome-terminal (Ctrl-Alt-F1 usually works alright though) which is a pain. Worse, I can't read man pages or get firefox to run so I can look man pages up online. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 19:51:38 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:51:38 -0400 Subject: HDD Dying - Get an alert when remounting RO? In-Reply-To: <48AB01C7.2020108-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0808190837w2def1fdes218ee4b84cfb2eaf@mail.gmail.com> <48AB01C7.2020108@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808191251n17366bcekd0069451964ed6f@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 1:24 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > I can't be of much help, but for what it's worth: I've attached a little > script I used from time to time to alert me of random things by using at. If > you put the following into a script and keep it running in a terminal, it > will do what you want. Not the best way to do it, but it should work. Thanks Marc. I'll give it a shot! -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 21:33:22 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 17:33:22 -0400 Subject: Who is going to Linux in the Park? Message-ID: Just wanted to know who else is going to Linux in the Park this coming Sunday? A summary of the event can be seen here: http://www.cluecan.ca/node/737 I don't want to get there and find I am alone :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 21:46:47 2008 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:46:47 -0600 Subject: Who is going to Linux in the Park? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48AB3F47.603@ualberta.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > Just wanted to know who else is going to Linux in the Park this coming > Sunday? A summary of the event can be seen here: > > http://www.cluecan.ca/node/737 > > I don't want to get there and find I am alone :-) . > Not that this helps, but I would totally go... but I'm only going to be living in Toronto as of Aug 30th. How often do these happen? When's the next one? You know it's nice to see such an active LUG. I've been part of many and have been someone disappointed by each. The good intentions are there but meetings/presentations/events just never seemed to happen. Have you guys done an Install Fest at/with UofT or a general one? Marc -- Impatience is the sign of a practical mind. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 22:08:42 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:08:42 -0400 Subject: Who is going to Linux in the Park? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > Just wanted to know who else is going to Linux in the Park this coming > Sunday? A summary of the event can be seen here: > > http://www.cluecan.ca/node/737 > > I don't want to get there and find I am alone :-) . We should probably bug Mr Patrick and see if there's anything that he thinks would be sensible to bring... I understand that there's a community street party the previous day, which frequently has decent leftovers (and some leftover "infrastructure"); I'm not sure what more ought to be considered: a) Beer's NOT welcome, as Bickford Park is a public place, and laws are incongruent with that being permissible; b) Having a BBQ is possibly-dodgy, unless Mr. Patrick has something figured out to that end; c) On occasion, people have been known to bring large quantities of samosas, which have always been a big hit! I'd certainly be game to chip in $20 to help make that happen :-). (Actually, if anything quasi-organized is happening in that regard, let me know and I'll try to locate some of the mint dipping sauce that's so good with them!); d) Soft drinks might be already available (in "leftover" form!) which is worth asking David about. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 22:24:59 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:24:59 -0400 Subject: Who is going to Linux in the Park? In-Reply-To: <48AB3F47.603-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <48AB3F47.603@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 5:46 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> Just wanted to know who else is going to Linux in the Park this coming >> Sunday? A summary of the event can be seen here: >> >> http://www.cluecan.ca/node/737 >> >> I don't want to get there and find I am alone :-) . > > Not that this helps, but I would totally go... but I'm only going to be > living in Toronto as of Aug 30th. How often do these happen? When's the next > one? Alas, this is an annual thing. Once September arrives, the weather starts to get less cooperative. I wouldn't characterize it as "gets too cold," but others might. > You know it's nice to see such an active LUG. I've been part of many and > have been someone disappointed by each. The good intentions are there but > meetings/presentations/events just never seemed to happen. Have you guys > done an Install Fest at/with UofT or a general one? We tried an installfest ~2 years ago, unfortunately, the interest didn't emerge. Toronto is a very, very strange place for this: it expresses, internally, two VERY "distinct cultures" that are relevant: a) Suburbanites expect to have decent vehicle-based access to things, e.g. - routes that are convenient for driving, as well as decent parking. There is no "central" location that offers either of those things, and no particular "locus" has grown up that has become any sort of "centre" to that end. Perhaps the nearest thing is the once-a-year "Ontario Linux Fest" that takes place near Pearson Airport (e.g. - near the intersection of Hwys 401 + 427). But that's once a year, and, being for those that are already enthusiasts, the value of installation help isn't *that* high. b) Urbanites consider places that aren't within walking distance of a subway stop to "not exist." The "TLUG" contingent that hold meetings walking distance from Bloor & Spadina have a strong tendancy to fall into this category. Unfortunately, such locations are not amenable to installfests: - It's fairly much a given that anywhere that's near to a subway stop will be challenging to get to by car, both due to constricted traffic conditions and a paucity of easy parking. - Who, as a newcomer, is likely to be prepared to carry a tower PC on public transit and wheel it in and out? Risk of PC damage as you rattle the machine around is way too high. - We'd need someone bringing a whole truckload of equipment (e.g. - monitors, computers, possibly network infrastructure) so that the poor guy who's already bringing his PC isn't forced to fight a fragile monitor through traffic as well. I was involved with NTLUG (North Texas, covering Dallas/Fort Worth) who operated an InstallFest in parallel with meetings for *years*, but Texas doesn't have category b) above :-). Some things work; some things don't :-(. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 23:04:42 2008 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 17:04:42 -0600 Subject: Install Fest and other activities (was "Who is going to Linux in the Park?") In-Reply-To: References: <48AB3F47.603@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <48AB518A.8040801@ualberta.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 5:46 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: [snip] > > We tried an installfest ~2 years ago, unfortunately, the interest didn't emerge. > > Toronto is a very, very strange place for this: it expresses, > internally, two VERY "distinct cultures" that are relevant: > > a) Suburbanites expect to have decent vehicle-based access to things, > e.g. - routes that are convenient for driving, as well as decent > parking. There is no "central" location that offers either of those > things, and no particular "locus" has grown up that has become any > sort of "centre" to that end. > > Perhaps the nearest thing is the once-a-year "Ontario Linux Fest" that > takes place near Pearson Airport (e.g. - near the intersection of Hwys > 401 + 427). But that's once a year, and, being for those that are > already enthusiasts, the value of installation help isn't *that* high. > > b) Urbanites consider places that aren't within walking distance of a > subway stop to "not exist." > > The "TLUG" contingent that hold meetings walking distance from Bloor & > Spadina have a strong tendancy to fall into this category. > > Unfortunately, such locations are not amenable to installfests: > - It's fairly much a given that anywhere that's near to a subway stop > will be challenging to get to by car, both due to constricted traffic > conditions and a paucity of easy parking. > - Who, as a newcomer, is likely to be prepared to carry a tower PC on > public transit and wheel it in and out? Risk of PC damage as you > rattle the machine around is way too high. > - We'd need someone bringing a whole truckload of equipment (e.g. - > monitors, computers, possibly network infrastructure) so that the poor > guy who's already bringing his PC isn't forced to fight a fragile > monitor through traffic as well. > > I was involved with NTLUG (North Texas, covering Dallas/Fort Worth) > who operated an InstallFest in parallel with meetings for *years*, but > Texas doesn't have category b) above :-). > > Some things work; some things don't :-(. So at McGill we were lucky that we didn't have most of the issues with b) because a lot of people part of the Network and Communication Services (the University-wide sysadmins) were mostly part of McLUG and were able to provide some extra hardware to help. New students and staff members curious about Linux were our big target. What about combining it with the people at UofT, targeting students but opening it up for everyone.. I'm sure there is a Linux enthusiast group there, and I will likely be part of it once I'm there. This has the added benefit that we could use the school's unused property/resources to host it. That's all assuming that they are interested. So far all I've found is "FIS Linux User Group at (flug-l at fis dot fis dot utoronto dot ca)". All I'm saying is that hosting it at school made it pretty good. There is of course the issue with carrying PCs on public transit, and many students don't have access to vehicles. I guess though that nowadays Install Fests aren't as important as before. Most installations have gotten quite a bit easier, and it's relatively easy to get into Linux these days. I still wouldn't say they're obsolete, of course. I'm all for an open-source LAN gaming night. We used to do this on the undergrad lab machines at McGill. Putting their resources to good use... and we learned from it! I swear! And it was great way to promote the growth of gaming on Linux :) Marc -- A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems. -- Alfr?d R?nyi (also attributed to Paul Erd?s) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 23:15:02 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:15:02 -0400 Subject: Bill C-61 site... In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0808190852g352b130dkfbc8023a1fa5ed73-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080818132913.GD5067@watson-wilson.ca> <32f6a8880808180712k540e1748xfca15cedb50e96d1@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880808180714p2979bc77r5cfde2a8af48fba8@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0808190852g352b130dkfbc8023a1fa5ed73@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880808191615r7fc18398u7e7ec19441876e18@mail.gmail.com> Ask them the following about 61B to: If we buy hardware why can't we unlock it or install custom firmware on devices, from what I understand this bill makes that illegal to. Doesn't it also make it so if we legally buy movies we can't translate it to IPODS as well...so thats illegal? On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Dave Germiquet > wrote: >> This guy, responded with a generic response not addressing the >> concerns saying everything is fine with the bill: >> >> The Honourable Jos?e Verner >> Minister of Canadian Heritage, Status of Women and Official Languages >> and Minister for la Francophonie >> >> The Honourable Jim Prentice >> Minister of Industry >> >> I sent him questions and he never responded back to them, (from his response) > > If I'm not mistaken, the "honourable" ministers of Heritage and > Industry are the ones pushing the bill. Of course there are certain > lobbies pushing them too, but that's hardly an excuse when citizens > rights are on the line. This has been going on for... what 8 years or > so now? > > When did the rights of virtual entities (read: corporations) become > more important than those of real entites (read: people)? > > Rrrgh. I'm planning to ask that question at the Oakville Townhall tomorrow. > > -- > Scott Elcomb > http://www.psema4.com/ > http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 23:21:48 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:21:48 -0400 Subject: Flash on PS3 In-Reply-To: <20080818130749.2b0421bb-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20080818130749.2b0421bb@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <32f6a8880808191621h759f818ar2e0651abd6201c96@mail.gmail.com> Hi Joe, The only way I got flash to work on a PPC was in debian. I used GNASH. The problem with it on ubuntu is it craps out because of some of the dependencies (not sure which one), and even on debian I had to compile it from scratch. However I did have a working Flash player using gnash on a Debian PPC box. On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 1:07 PM, JoeHill wrote: > > Got a buddy who installed XUbuntu on his PS3, and we're trying to figure out > whether or not it is possible to have Flash working within the Linux OS. > > What's confusing us is that Flash works in the browser from the PS3's default > system, but I've read in a couple of places that there is _no_ working flash > for the PS3's PPC architecture. > > I've tried the installer from Adobe, which just errors out about not being > compatible with PPC arch's, and the packaged version from Ubuntu which is > apparently equivalent to about Flash 7. No good. > > Anyone got this working? > > -- > JoeHill > ++++++++++++++++++++ > Bender: Yeah, well I'm gonna build my own lunar space lander! > With blackjack aaaaannd Hookers! Actually, forget the space > lander, and the blackjack. Ahhhh forget the whole thing! > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hdevalence-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 00:10:51 2008 From: hdevalence-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Henry de Valence) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:10:51 -0400 Subject: Bill C-61 site... In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880808191615r7fc18398u7e7ec19441876e18-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0808190852g352b130dkfbc8023a1fa5ed73@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880808191615r7fc18398u7e7ec19441876e18@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200808192010.51534.hdevalence@gmail.com> On Tue August 19 2008 7:15:02 pm Dave Germiquet wrote: > Ask them the following about 61B to: > > If we buy hardware why can't we unlock it or install custom firmware > on devices, from what I understand this bill makes that illegal to. AFAIK will only be illegal to install custom firmware if you are circumventing some form of copy protection. > Doesn't it also make it so if we legally buy movies we can't translate > it to IPODS as well...so thats illegal? Yes, but you can buy the special iPod edition of the movie you already own for a low price of just 10.99! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 01:04:58 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:04:58 -0400 Subject: Flash on PS3 In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880808191621h759f818ar2e0651abd6201c96-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080818130749.2b0421bb@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <32f6a8880808191621h759f818ar2e0651abd6201c96@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080819210458.071f34db@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi Joe, > > The only way I got flash to work on a PPC was in debian. I used GNASH. > > The problem with it on ubuntu is it craps out because of some of the > dependencies (not sure which one), and even on debian I had to compile > it from scratch. > > However I did have a working Flash player using gnash on a Debian PPC box. > > On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 1:07 PM, JoeHill wrote: > [...] Is GNASH compatible with Flash 9? ie., works on YouTube, etc.? -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Were-Bender: Oh boy, I feel like a car in a candy store. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 02:13:36 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:13:36 -0400 Subject: Ontario Linux Fest? Message-ID: <48AB7DD0.5080003@rogers.com> Has anyone heard anything about this year's Ontario Linux Fest? It's just over two months away, and their web site doesn't have much info. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 02:39:28 2008 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:39:28 -0400 Subject: Ontario Linux Fest? In-Reply-To: <48AB7DD0.5080003-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48AB7DD0.5080003@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1219199968.6258.131.camel@leon> On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 22:13 -0400, James Knott wrote: > Has anyone heard anything about this year's Ontario Linux Fest? It's > just over two months away, and their web site doesn't have much info. Thank you James! Funny you should ask. Yes, Ontario Linux Fest is on Saturday 25 October 2008 and it is going to even better than last year. Our venue is closer to the Subway, being an easy bus ride from Wilson Station. We just confirmed a fabulous keynote that we will announce shortly. There are still openings for sponsors and speakers, and a completely anonymous suggestion page should you care to throw somebody under the bus. ;-) Have your say. Tell us what you'd like to see more of this year. -- Ontario Linux Fest Toronto, Ontario, Canada Saturday, 25 October 2008 http://onlinux.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 06:12:45 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 02:12:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: another must-read article from Odlyzko Message-ID: "The delusions of net neutrality" http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~odlyzko/doc/net.neutrality.delusions.pdf The article isn't what you might think based in its title. He actually argues that the benefits of non-neutrality are overestimated by the service providers. But there is more to learn. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 06:12:48 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 02:12:48 -0400 Subject: Flash on PS3 In-Reply-To: <20080819210458.071f34db-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20080818130749.2b0421bb@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <32f6a8880808191621h759f818ar2e0651abd6201c96@mail.gmail.com> <20080819210458.071f34db@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <32f6a8880808192312y43ed26cdt455551596bff869c@mail.gmail.com> Yes, I had it working with youtube on one of the first imacs...it was choppy cuz of video card ram but it worked. On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 9:04 PM, JoeHill wrote: > Dave Germiquet wrote: > >> Hi Joe, >> >> The only way I got flash to work on a PPC was in debian. I used GNASH. >> >> The problem with it on ubuntu is it craps out because of some of the >> dependencies (not sure which one), and even on debian I had to compile >> it from scratch. >> >> However I did have a working Flash player using gnash on a Debian PPC box. >> >> On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 1:07 PM, JoeHill wrote: >> [...] > > Is GNASH compatible with Flash 9? ie., works on YouTube, etc.? > > -- > JoeHill > ++++++++++++++++++++ > Were-Bender: Oh boy, I feel like a car in a candy store. > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 20:49:37 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:49:37 -0400 Subject: Who is going to Linux in the Park? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/19/08, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Colin McGregor > wrote: >> Just wanted to know who else is going to Linux in the Park this coming >> Sunday? A summary of the event can be seen here: >> >> http://www.cluecan.ca/node/737 >> >> I don't want to get there and find I am alone :-) . > > We should probably bug Mr Patrick and see if there's anything that he > thinks would be sensible to bring... Excellent idea. > I understand that there's a community street party the previous day, > which frequently has decent leftovers (and some leftover > "infrastructure"); I'm not sure what more ought to be considered: > > a) Beer's NOT welcome, as Bickford Park is a public place, and laws > are incongruent with that being permissible; > > b) Having a BBQ is possibly-dodgy, unless Mr. Patrick has something > figured out to that end; Yes, if memory serves there are a number of rules for BBQs in the parks, like, need a permit, and all the mainland Toronto park BBQs must be gas BBQs (the Toronto Islands parks tolerate charcoal BBQs as rules prohibit propane on the normal ferries... so charcoal can be used at selected island locations...). > c) On occasion, people have been known to bring large quantities of > samosas, which have always been a big hit! I'd certainly be game to > chip in $20 to help make that happen :-). (Actually, if anything > quasi-organized is happening in that regard, let me know and I'll try > to locate some of the mint dipping sauce that's so good with them!); Yes, those were a great spicy treat and I would be happy to buy a bunch for this event, but: - I've hear stuff about there being a great samosas shop at/near Finch/Midland. Exactly what place is that and is that the best place for good/cheap samosas? - Samosas are great, but there is more to a picnic than samosas. How do we co-ordinate things so that say half the attendees don't say show up with 50 samosas each? In other words what other stuff should we bring? > d) Soft drinks might be already available (in "leftover" form!) which > is worth asking David about. Good point. Semi-related point, are there speciality soft drinks that would be enjoyed? Say Irn-Bru (www.irn-bru.co.uk) or Inca Kola (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca_Kola), both of which can be found without much effort in the GTA. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 18:00:14 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Install Fest and other activities (was "Who is going to Linux in the Park?") In-Reply-To: <48AB518A.8040801-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <48AB3F47.603@ualberta.ca> <48AB518A.8040801@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Aug 2008, Marc Lanctot wrote: > I'm all for an open-source LAN gaming night. We used to do this on the That's a good idea. There are a number of OSS/*nix centric network games. While MS-Windows clients often exist they are a small minority of players. Two of my favourites are: Crossfire Netrek Cheers, Rob > undergrad lab machines at McGill. Putting their resources to good use...and > we learned from it! I swear! And it was great way to promote the growth of > gaming on Linux :) -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 14:41:38 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:41:38 -0400 Subject: Flash on PS3 In-Reply-To: <20080819210458.071f34db-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20080818130749.2b0421bb@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <32f6a8880808191621h759f818ar2e0651abd6201c96@mail.gmail.com> <20080819210458.071f34db@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20080820144138.GB12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 09:04:58PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > Is GNASH compatible with Flash 9? ie., works on YouTube, etc.? I believe they have partial flash 9 support. I think most if not all of flash 7 and below works, and some of 8 and 9 is working too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 21:13:50 2008 From: daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Daniel Hedlund) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:13:50 -0400 Subject: Install Fest and other activities (was "Who is going to Linux in the Park?") In-Reply-To: References: <48AB3F47.603@ualberta.ca> <48AB518A.8040801@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: Instead of having LinuxFests nowadays, perhaps what is needed is something akin to a "WINE Fest" where people get help getting their [proprietary] windows applications working under Linux, or at least see if their applications can be made to work before they switch/ditch. It wouldn't be restricted to WINE, but would rather encompass any emulation/virtualisation/interpretation software (VMware, QEMU, VirtualBox, Cedega, CrossOver Linux, DOSBox, etc). The idea is to finally "get that last application or two that's holding you back from switching to work". Just a thought. Daniel Hedlund daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 21:15:12 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:15:12 -0400 Subject: Install Fest and other activities (was "Who is going to Linux in the Park?") In-Reply-To: References: <48AB3F47.603@ualberta.ca> <48AB518A.8040801@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: On 8/20/08, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Tue, 19 Aug 2008, Marc Lanctot wrote: >> I'm all for an open-source LAN gaming night. We used to do this on the > > That's a good idea. There are a number of OSS/*nix centric network games. > While MS-Windows clients often exist they are a small minority of players. > Two of my favourites are: > > Crossfire > Netrek > > Cheers, Or alternatively there are some commercial games that have Linux (as well as Windows) versions, such as some of the Unreal Tournament games, and some of the Doom / Quake games. Great, if somewhat violent fun. In the free multiplayer group, my favourite is "Battle for Wesnoth". > Rob > >> undergrad lab machines at McGill. Putting their resources to good >> use...and >> we learned from it! I swear! And it was great way to promote the growth of >> >> gaming on Linux :) Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 21:20:10 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:20:10 -0400 Subject: Install Fest and other activities (was "Who is going to Linux in the Park?") In-Reply-To: References: <48AB3F47.603@ualberta.ca> <48AB518A.8040801@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: On 8/20/08, Daniel Hedlund wrote: > Instead of having LinuxFests nowadays, perhaps what is needed is something > akin to a "WINE Fest" where people get help getting their [proprietary] > windows applications working under Linux, or at least see if their > applications can be made to work before they switch/ditch. It wouldn't be > restricted to WINE, but would rather encompass any > emulation/virtualisation/interpretation software (VMware, QEMU, VirtualBox, > Cedega, CrossOver Linux, DOSBox, etc). The idea is to finally "get that > last application or two that's holding you back from switching to work". > > Just a thought. Good thought. Earlier this year for a client, I dealt with that sort of issue. The answer I did was to install Ubuntu, then Xen virtualization software and then to install MS Windows Vista under Xen. So, for 99% of stuff the machine ran Ubuntu, but for that last application the answer was to run Windows as a virtual machine... > Daniel Hedlund > daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 12:54:45 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:54:45 -0400 Subject: Who is going to Linux in the Park? In-Reply-To: References: <48AB3F47.603@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: On 8/19/08, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 5:46 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: >> Colin McGregor wrote: >>> Just wanted to know who else is going to Linux in the Park this coming >>> Sunday? A summary of the event can be seen here: >>> >>> http://www.cluecan.ca/node/737 >>> >>> I don't want to get there and find I am alone :-) . >> >> Not that this helps, but I would totally go... but I'm only going to be >> living in Toronto as of Aug 30th. How often do these happen? When's the >> next >> one? > > Alas, this is an annual thing. Once September arrives, the weather > starts to get less cooperative. I wouldn't characterize it as "gets > too cold," but others might. > >> You know it's nice to see such an active LUG. I've been part of many and >> have been someone disappointed by each. The good intentions are there but >> meetings/presentations/events just never seemed to happen. Have you guys >> done an Install Fest at/with UofT or a general one? > > We tried an installfest ~2 years ago, unfortunately, the interest didn't > emerge. Yes, we had an install fest at Centennial College which was a disaster, several volunteers showed up, but nobody wanting help getting Linux installed showed :-( . Slightly more recently we did a MythTV oriented install feast at Innovation Toronto that was a very modest success, several volunteers and two machines on which to install MythTV. There are no current plans to repeat either of the above... Not sure what did/didn't work. MythTV has its quirks when it comes to installs, and isn't quite the painfree process found in most installs, so that might have helped things there. How the publicity differed between the two events is another question... Innovation Toronto was downtown and Centennial College was a suburban event... [snip Chris Browne's suburbanites vs. urbanites comments] To add to what Chris noted, yes the local Linux community is broken into two groups the suburbanites and urbanites. What I find of interest is how little overlap there is between the two groups. I make it to almost all of the TLUG (urbanite) and NewTLUG (suburbanite) meetings. What I find odd is how very few faces I see at both meetings. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 14:42:35 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:42:35 -0400 Subject: Looking for an ASUS motherboard that net boots... In-Reply-To: <20080815155257.GQ12475-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080815141324.GN12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080815155257.GQ12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 8/15/08, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 10:51:31AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >> The board has the MAC address : db:b3:db:60:1d:00 . This is a >> broadcast MAC address. > > So it has address 00:1d:60:db:b3:db when not read in reverse. That > would make sense. > > So you actually see the reversed address in the logs from the network > boot server? Yes. So, to sum up what seems to happen is this: - Script is run on the server telling it to expect a new diskless client. - Diskless client is booted sends out a bootp request, with the broadcast MAC address, which the server responds to. - Kernel is downloaded by diskless client and run. - Kernel sees the MAC address is invalid, and changes MAC address to a randomly selected valid MAC address. - Diskless client requests an IP address from DHCP server (running on little router box), and gets a different IP address each time (because the MAC address keeps changing). - Things get weird... If I run the set-up script, the server will continue to set-up a profile for the diskless client, based on the IP number (which will not be the same on the next boot). If I don't run the set-up script here, things will fail because the IP number has not been configured. If I restrict the number of available dhcp numbers to a small value (say 4) then I will just run out of available IP numbers and EVERYTHING breaks... Kernel in all of this is 2.6.18 (not the latest ... and I am loath to change because I have a solid reliable server there...). Any event, the motherboard ASUS M2N-MX SE Plus motherboard was shipped back to ASUS on Monday by FedEX Air and was delivered Tuesday morning to the ASUS office in Indiana (the tab for the FedEx bill being picked up by ASUS). So, what should be a 10 minute job is more more like a 10 week job and I have a motherboard that is collecting a lot more frequent flyer points than me :-( ... This motherboard is now a financial and good will loss for ASUS. I am annoyed and frustrated... A no win situation all around... Sigh... Colin McGregor >> If I boot a live CD the the software will detect that I have an >> invalid MAC address. The software will then change the MAC address to >> a valid value selected at random. This is an issue as the server >> software uses the MAC address to know what configuration files to be >> loaded into which client machine(s)... > > Which kernel version are you booting? > > I see changes were made in the kernel git tree around a year ago (not sure > when they entered the release kernels) to fix the fact that some newer > nvidia chips (like the MCP61 on your board) in fact are NOT reversed and > should not be messed with. All kernels before that fix will get it wrong. > >> The motherboard sends an invalid MAC address across the network and >> any software that respects the IEEE 802 standard will not work. > > The network boot code does? ouch. That means ASUS stored the MAC > address reversed on a board where it shouldn't be, at least if the > comments in the kernel code that says MCP61's are never reversed are > correct. > >> The way ASUS could fix this would be to put a valid MAC address into >> the BIOS. Alternatively, I gather one of the other motherboard >> builders that had the same issue offers a free MS-DOS (gag) utility >> that lets you change the MAC address in EEROM to anything you want >> (not ideal, but this is a workable solution). If ASUS offered this >> change MAC address utility, I could run MS-DOS once, change the MAC >> address and have a working netbooting system... > > Hmm, I thought the MAC address was in the BIOS eeprom. > >> The whole point of this exercise was to build a small, light weight, >> low power, quiet PC. If during set-up I need to connect a floppy drive >> or a CD-ROM drive as a one time event, I could live with that. What I >> am not willing to tolerate is having to keep any sort of drive >> (floppy, optical or hard drive) as a perminate part of the system. > > Yeah that would defeat the purpose. > >> Well, if I could even change just the first byte of the MAC address I >> could be off to the races, but with an invalid value there, and no way >> to change the MAC address I am @#$%. > > Well the whole address simply needs to be reversed (or possibly not > reversed in the first place). > > -- > Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 21:37:46 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:37:46 -0400 Subject: Install Fest and other activities (was "Who is going to Linux in the Park?") In-Reply-To: References: <48AB3F47.603@ualberta.ca> <48AB518A.8040801@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <20080820213746.GC12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 02:00:14PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > That's a good idea. There are a number of OSS/*nix centric network games. > While MS-Windows clients often exist they are a small minority of players. > Two of my favourites are: > > Crossfire > Netrek Netrek never seemed interesting. Never heard of crossfire. bzflag is always fun. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 21:39:40 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:39:40 -0400 Subject: Install Fest and other activities (was "Who is going to Linux in the Park?") In-Reply-To: References: <48AB3F47.603@ualberta.ca> <48AB518A.8040801@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <20080820213940.GD12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 05:15:12PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Or alternatively there are some commercial games that have Linux (as > well as Windows) versions, such as some of the Unreal Tournament > games, and some of the Doom / Quake games. Great, if somewhat violent > fun. Bioware's Neverwinter's nights is wonderful on linux (runs much nicer than the windows version on lesser hardware including hardware that can't run the windows version at all). They even had a new patch released a few weeks ago for it. I thought they were done patching new features into it by now, but no apparently not. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 17:03:51 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:03:51 -0400 Subject: Flash on PS3 In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880808191621h759f818ar2e0651abd6201c96-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080818130749.2b0421bb@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <32f6a8880808191621h759f818ar2e0651abd6201c96@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080820130351.0e2f2dbc@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Dave Germiquet wrote: > The only way I got flash to work on a PPC was in debian. I used GNASH. > > The problem with it on ubuntu is it craps out because of some of the > dependencies (not sure which one), and even on debian I had to compile > it from scratch. > > However I did have a working Flash player using gnash on a Debian PPC box. I will give it a shot, thanks :) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "Wait a second, aren't you a member of the yacht club?" -Bender "My God, you're right. I'm a class 3 yacht." -Countess de la Roca -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 21:44:29 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:44:29 -0400 Subject: Who is going to Linux in the Park? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080820214429.GE12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 04:49:37PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Yes, those were a great spicy treat and I would be happy to buy a > bunch for this event, but: > > - I've hear stuff about there being a great samosas shop at/near > Finch/Midland. Exactly what place is that and is that the best place > for good/cheap samosas? > > - Samosas are great, but there is more to a picnic than samosas. How > do we co-ordinate things so that say half the attendees don't say show > up with 50 samosas each? In other words what other stuff should we > bring? These ones are amazing: http://www.samosasweetfactory.com/contactus.htm Some people often bring a box or two in to work, which always disappear rather quickly. I think there are 100 samosas in a box. No idea what they cost. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 21:48:52 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:48:52 -0400 Subject: Looking for an ASUS motherboard that net boots... In-Reply-To: References: <20080815141324.GN12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080815155257.GQ12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080820214852.GF12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 10:42:35AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > On 8/15/08, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 10:51:31AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > >> The board has the MAC address : db:b3:db:60:1d:00 . This is a > >> broadcast MAC address. > > > > So it has address 00:1d:60:db:b3:db when not read in reverse. That > > would make sense. > > > > So you actually see the reversed address in the logs from the network > > boot server? > > Yes. > > So, to sum up what seems to happen is this: > > - Script is run on the server telling it to expect a new diskless client. > - Diskless client is booted sends out a bootp request, with the > broadcast MAC address, which the server responds to. > - Kernel is downloaded by diskless client and run. > - Kernel sees the MAC address is invalid, and changes MAC address to a > randomly selected valid MAC address. > - Diskless client requests an IP address from DHCP server (running on > little router box), and gets a different IP address each time (because > the MAC address keeps changing). > - Things get weird... If I run the set-up script, the server will > continue to set-up a profile for the diskless client, based on the IP > number (which will not be the same on the next boot). If I don't run > the set-up script here, things will fail because the IP number has not > been configured. > > If I restrict the number of available dhcp numbers to a small value > (say 4) then I will just run out of available IP numbers and > EVERYTHING breaks... > > Kernel in all of this is 2.6.18 (not the latest ... and I am loath to > change because I have a solid reliable server there...). Well certainly 2.6.18 IS too old to work correctly with that chipset for ethernet. It will always reverse it as far as I can tell looking at the git logs. I think around 2.6.22 or 2.6.23 is when things were finally starting to work. As for PXE, it sounds like they simply screwed up and used old PXE code that doesn't know that the newer chips should not be reversed anymore. That Asus should be able to fix. > Any event, the motherboard ASUS M2N-MX SE Plus motherboard was shipped > back to ASUS on Monday by FedEX Air and was delivered Tuesday morning > to the ASUS office in Indiana (the tab for the FedEx bill being picked > up by ASUS). So, what should be a 10 minute job is more more like a 10 > week job and I have a motherboard that is collecting a lot more > frequent flyer points than me :-( ... This motherboard is now a > financial and good will loss for ASUS. I am annoyed and frustrated... > A no win situation all around... Sigh... Well Asus should update the BIOS to fix the PXE bug. You should update the kernel to fix the forcedeth bug. I don't think they actually got the MAC address backwards on the board, although I guess that could be the case since it would explain both PXE and the kernel seeing a reversed MAC but it doesn't match with the kernel changes made since 2.6.18 as far as I can tell. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 22:00:11 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 18:00:11 -0400 Subject: Who is going to Linux in the Park? In-Reply-To: References: <48AB3F47.603@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <48AC93EB.3010400@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > To add to what Chris noted, yes the local Linux community is broken > into two groups the suburbanites and urbanites. What I find of > interest is how little overlap there is between the two groups. I make > it to almost all of the TLUG (urbanite) and NewTLUG (suburbanite) > meetings. What I find odd is how very few faces I see at both > meetings. > I'm a "suburbanite" and the reason I don't go to many TLUG meetings is I find all the heckling tends to trash the presentation. Another reason is I often don't hear about the program, until the last minute, which means I may have other things planned. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 12:36:02 2008 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:36:02 -0400 Subject: Bill C-61 site... In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880808191615r7fc18398u7e7ec19441876e18-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080818132913.GD5067@watson-wilson.ca> <32f6a8880808180712k540e1748xfca15cedb50e96d1@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880808180714p2979bc77r5cfde2a8af48fba8@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0808190852g352b130dkfbc8023a1fa5ed73@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880808191615r7fc18398u7e7ec19441876e18@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080820123602.GA21656@watson-wilson.ca> On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 07:15:02PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: >Doesn't it also make it so if we legally buy movies we can't translate >it to IPODS as well...so thats illegal? I thought that that would be legal. However, I believe there is a clause that states that the content owner (e.g. record label) can set an 'evil bit' or a 'digital lock' that makes the copying of said content illegal. This would seem to indicate that the copyright holder gains even more power by being able to decide, on a whim, what we can an can't copy. I'm pretty sure that if this is true a digital lock will be the default setting for all new content. -- Neil Watson System Administrator for hire http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 23:00:31 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:00:31 -0400 Subject: Who is going to Linux in the Park? In-Reply-To: <48AC93EB.3010400-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48AB3F47.603@ualberta.ca> <48AC93EB.3010400@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 8/20/08, James Knott wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: >> To add to what Chris noted, yes the local Linux community is broken >> into two groups the suburbanites and urbanites. What I find of >> interest is how little overlap there is between the two groups. I make >> it to almost all of the TLUG (urbanite) and NewTLUG (suburbanite) >> meetings. What I find odd is how very few faces I see at both >> meetings. >> > I'm a "suburbanite" and the reason I don't go to many TLUG meetings is I > find all the heckling tends to trash the presentation. Another reason > is I often don't hear about the program, until the last minute, which > means I may have other things planned. Ah, I just assume 2nd and 4th Tuesday of the month I will be at a Linux event... As for the heckling, or the first row issue, not sure what to do about that. I would suggest whips and chains for the worst offenders, but that would likely be a turn-on for them.... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 23:42:39 2008 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:42:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Who is going to Linux in the Park? In-Reply-To: <48AC93EB.3010400-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48AB3F47.603@ualberta.ca> <48AC93EB.3010400@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, James Knott wrote: > I'm a "suburbanite" and the reason I don't go to many TLUG meetings > is I find all the heckling tends to trash the presentation. I haven't noticed any problem at any of the meetoings I've been to, including the two presentations that I gave. > Another reason is I often don't hear about the program, until the > last minute, which means I may have other things planned. That is the major reason why I don't get out very often. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 00:43:20 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 20:43:20 -0400 Subject: Who is going to Linux in the Park? In-Reply-To: References: <48AB3F47.603@ualberta.ca> <48AC93EB.3010400@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 8/20/08, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, James Knott wrote: >> I'm a "suburbanite" and the reason I don't go to many TLUG meetings >> is I find all the heckling tends to trash the presentation. > > I haven't noticed any problem at any of the meetoings I've been > to, including the two presentations that I gave. > >> Another reason is I often don't hear about the program, until the >> last minute, which means I may have other things planned. > > That is the major reason why I don't get out very often. Well the next meetings are: NewTLUG - Aug. 26, 2008 - Richard Weait - "OpenStreetMap" TLUG - Sept. 9, 2008 - Myles Braithwaite - "Web Frameworks or: How I Learned that Java and PHP Should not be Used Everywhere." The October TLUG meeting will be the annual general meeting and a topic to be announced later... More details can be seen here: http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/Main_Page Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 01:33:25 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:33:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Looking for an ASUS motherboard that net boots... In-Reply-To: References: <20080815141324.GN12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080815155257.GQ12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Colin McGregor | - Diskless client is booted sends out a bootp request, with the | broadcast MAC address, which the server responds to. | - Kernel is downloaded by diskless client and run. | - Kernel sees the MAC address is invalid, and changes MAC address to a | randomly selected valid MAC address. | - Diskless client requests an IP address from DHCP server (running on | little router box), and gets a different IP address each time (because | the MAC address keeps changing). I vaguely remember that DHCP accepts a username parameter that can be used to select the IP address to be given out. Is there a way you can exploit this? Looking at RFC2131 section 2.1, there is talk of "client identifier option" to superceded MAC address. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 01:51:59 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:51:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Who is going to Linux in the Park? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Colin McGregor | - I've hear stuff about there being a great samosas shop at/near | Finch/Midland. Exactly what place is that and is that the best place | for good/cheap samosas? That would be Samosa King (paired with Embassy Resaurant). I like them a lot and they seem really inexpensive (5 for $1). But then I've not bought a lot of samosas from a lot of places. google for "samosa king" scarborough Slightly old threads; other places mentioned: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/341342 http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/345381 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gordontc-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 02:24:40 2008 From: gordontc-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Gordon Chillcott) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 22:24:40 -0400 Subject: Who is going to Linux in the Park? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1219285480.4440.10.camel@gnat.gordhome.local> On Wed, 2008-08-20 at 21:51 -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Colin McGregor > > | - I've hear stuff about there being a great samosas shop at/near > | Finch/Midland. Exactly what place is that and is that the best place > | for good/cheap samosas? > > That would be Samosa King (paired with Embassy Resaurant). I like > them a lot and they seem really inexpensive (5 for $1). But then I've > not bought a lot of samosas from a lot of places. > > google for "samosa king" scarborough The place is located in a little plaza on the northeast corner of Finch and Middlefield. They also have paratta roti at 40 cents apiece as of three weeks ago. I recommend you definitely do NOT go there hungry, by the way. They are very good with appetite-inducing odors! > > Slightly old threads; other places mentioned: > http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/341342 > http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/345381 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gordontc-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 02:29:13 2008 From: gordontc-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Gordon Chillcott) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 22:29:13 -0400 Subject: Who is going to Linux in the Park? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1219285754.4440.13.camel@gnat.gordhome.local> I'm going to make a point of being there. As to the samosas, I'll see if I can get a bunch - I live fairly close to the place on Middlefield and Finch. Gordon On Wed, 2008-08-20 at 16:49 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > On 8/19/08, Christopher Browne wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Colin McGregor > > wrote: > >> Just wanted to know who else is going to Linux in the Park this coming > >> Sunday? A summary of the event can be seen here: > >> > >> http://www.cluecan.ca/node/737 > >> > >> I don't want to get there and find I am alone :-) . > > > > We should probably bug Mr Patrick and see if there's anything that he > > thinks would be sensible to bring... > > Excellent idea. > > > I understand that there's a community street party the previous day, > > which frequently has decent leftovers (and some leftover > > "infrastructure"); I'm not sure what more ought to be considered: > > > > a) Beer's NOT welcome, as Bickford Park is a public place, and laws > > are incongruent with that being permissible; > > > > b) Having a BBQ is possibly-dodgy, unless Mr. Patrick has something > > figured out to that end; > > Yes, if memory serves there are a number of rules for BBQs in the > parks, like, need a permit, and all the mainland Toronto park BBQs > must be gas BBQs (the Toronto Islands parks tolerate charcoal BBQs as > rules prohibit propane on the normal ferries... so charcoal can be > used at selected island locations...). > > > c) On occasion, people have been known to bring large quantities of > > samosas, which have always been a big hit! I'd certainly be game to > > chip in $20 to help make that happen :-). (Actually, if anything > > quasi-organized is happening in that regard, let me know and I'll try > > to locate some of the mint dipping sauce that's so good with them!); > > Yes, those were a great spicy treat and I would be happy to buy a > bunch for this event, but: > > - I've hear stuff about there being a great samosas shop at/near > Finch/Midland. Exactly what place is that and is that the best place > for good/cheap samosas? > > - Samosas are great, but there is more to a picnic than samosas. How > do we co-ordinate things so that say half the attendees don't say show > up with 50 samosas each? In other words what other stuff should we > bring? > > > d) Soft drinks might be already available (in "leftover" form!) which > > is worth asking David about. > > Good point. Semi-related point, are there speciality soft drinks that > would be enjoyed? Say Irn-Bru (www.irn-bru.co.uk) or Inca Kola > (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca_Kola), both of which can be found without > much effort in the GTA. > > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 03:34:11 2008 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:34:11 -0400 Subject: Who is going to Linux in the Park? In-Reply-To: <1219285754.4440.13.camel-uJOd+7z+CzaU6o2RgC31msM6rOWSkUom@public.gmane.org> References: <1219285754.4440.13.camel@gnat.gordhome.local> Message-ID: > On Wed, 2008-08-20 at 16:49 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >> On 8/19/08, Christopher Browne wrote: >> > On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Colin McGregor >> > wrote: >> >> Just wanted to know who else is going to Linux in the Park this coming >> >> Sunday? A summary of the event can be seen here: >> >> >> >> http://www.cluecan.ca/node/737 >> >> >> >> I don't want to get there and find I am alone :-) . I will be going... Hope the giant inflatable Tux from last year also makes an appearance! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 23:44:02 2008 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 19:44:02 -0400 Subject: virtual machines able to network between host and guest os Message-ID: <48ADFDC2.9010409@tmis.ca> My computer runs Ubuntu and eth0 IP 192.168.1.10 My VirtualBox IP of EzCacti is 10.0.2.15 Guest OS EzCacti can access the internet, but cannot ping anywhere. (no problems there) Guest OS EzCacti is not accessible from my host Ubuntu OS. (this is the problem) Are there any other virtual machines, that allow the HOST OS and Guest OS to communicate via the network? With network trickery, can you make VirtualBox do this? /teddy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 00:54:30 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 20:54:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: virtual machines able to network between host and guest os In-Reply-To: <48ADFDC2.9010409-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <48ADFDC2.9010409@tmis.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 2008, teddymills wrote: > Are there any other virtual machines, that allow the > HOST OS and Guest OS to communicate via the network? > > With network trickery, can you make VirtualBox do this? Hi. The host & guest should _normally_ be able to talk to one another even if the guest can't talk to anything else. I normally use a network bridge for virtual systems and the underlying virtualisation logic normally allows the guest and host to talk to each other and every other box. I haven't used VirtualBox but I have used many other virtualisation technologies and they have all supported bridging. Currently I use VMWare and OpenVZ. Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 03:43:53 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:43:53 -0400 Subject: Little Linux Laptop: $324.46 Message-ID: <48AE35F9.50104@telly.org> This looks like an interesting deal. This week, Buy.com Canada is taking 7% off all prices. This includes their listing for the Acer One, which is an EeePC-like system. Specs (cut and pasted from the Acer site): Linpus Linux Lite; English/French OS (user must make one-time choice of language on first start-up); Intel? Atom Processor N270 (512KB L2 cache, 1.60GHz, 533MHz FSB); 512MB DDR2 533 SDRAM; 8GB NAND flash memory (SSD), multi-in-one card reader, SD Card reader; 8.9" WSVGA (1024 x 600) TFT display, Acer? CrystalBrite Technology; Intel? Graphics Media Accelerator 950; 802.11b/g WLAN, 10/100 LAN, webcam; seashell white chassis; three-cell battery Another version, including a 120GB hard disk instead of 8GB SSD (and blue instead of white), is selling for the same price. Note: I have no financial interest in this, I don't know any more about it, I've never bought from buy.com and I won't be needing one myself. But this seems like a very good buy for a 9" laptop, about $200 less than the Asus 901. And isn't it nice to be able to buy computers without the Windows Tax now? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 05:15:19 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:15:19 -0400 Subject: virtual machines able to network between host and guest os In-Reply-To: References: <48ADFDC2.9010409@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880808212215g2fccfac0h32f5006594821f8e@mail.gmail.com> Hi Teddy, I was able to get bridge networking to work with kubuntu, using these settings: (this is an example) /etc/network/interfaces # This file describes the network interfaces available on your system # and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5). # The loopback network interface auto lo iface lo inet loopback # The primary network interface auto br0 iface br0 inet static address 192.168.1.101 netmask 255.255.255.0 network 192.168.1.0 broadcast 192.168.1.255 gateway 192.168.1.2 bridge_ports eth1 iface eth1 inet static address 0.0.0.0 You also have to add some interfaces using Vboxaddif: /usr/bin/VBoxAddIF vbox10 br0 Then you use these settings in virtualbox Attached to: Host INterface interface name: vbox10 Here's a URL for more information: http://samiux.wordpress.com/2007/07/11/bridge-network-interface-on-virtualbox/ http://jaysonrowe.wordpress.com/2008/07/26/setting-up-bridged-networking-for-virtualbox-debian/ Do some more research on bridge networking, with some tweaking you should get it :) On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Thu, 21 Aug 2008, teddymills wrote: > >> Are there any other virtual machines, that allow the >> HOST OS and Guest OS to communicate via the network? >> >> With network trickery, can you make VirtualBox do this? > > Hi. The host & guest should _normally_ be able to talk to one another even > if the guest can't talk to anything else. I normally use a network bridge > for virtual systems and the underlying virtualisation logic normally allows > the guest and host to talk to each other and every other box. > > I haven't used VirtualBox but I have used many other virtualisation > technologies and they have all supported bridging. Currently I use VMWare > and OpenVZ. > > Cheers, > > Rob > > -- > I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 05:21:58 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:21:58 -0400 Subject: virtual machines able to network between host and guest os In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880808212215g2fccfac0h32f5006594821f8e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <48ADFDC2.9010409@tmis.ca> <32f6a8880808212215g2fccfac0h32f5006594821f8e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880808212221t77be5c9ai523d7762bf3d91f0@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I forgot to mention Teddy, in my experience if you run vmplayer or vmware server it will mess up the networking for VirtualBox. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 05:29:41 2008 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:29:41 -0400 Subject: HDD Dying - Get an alert when remounting RO? In-Reply-To: <20080819180425.GZ12475-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0808190837w2def1fdes218ee4b84cfb2eaf@mail.gmail.com> <20080819180425.GZ12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <48AE4EC5.7080805@utoronto.ca> Actually one can get an alert when SMART starts to complain. I have one running on my Mac OS X, but I know there is an utility for Linux. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 11:40:40 2008 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:40:40 -0400 Subject: Little Linux Laptop: $324.46 In-Reply-To: <48AE35F9.50104-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <48AE35F9.50104@telly.org> Message-ID: <20080822114040.GA3767@watson-wilson.ca> On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 11:43:53PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >Note: I have no financial interest in this, I don't know any more about >it, I've never bought from buy.com and I won't be needing one myself. >But this seems like a very good buy for a 9" laptop, about $200 less >than the Asus 901. And isn't it nice to be able to buy computers without >the Windows Tax now? This is indeed a good thing. To be fair to the EEEpc, the 901 has a larger SSD, more RAM and a larger battery. Thus, the higher price. -- Neil Watson System Administrator for hire http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 13:33:54 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:33:54 -0400 Subject: What starts rpc.mount? Message-ID: <20080822133354.GA6514@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> What starts rpc.mount? I rebooted a server last night and rpc.mount started up, taking port 993 from dovecot and thus borking the ability to retrieve email. I found the offending process with lsof -i, but I don't use rpc, so I want this to never happen again. Any suggestions? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 14:25:31 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:25:31 -0400 Subject: What starts rpc.mount? In-Reply-To: <20080822133354.GA6514-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20080822133354.GA6514@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3a97ef0808220725p16578b42t86023f8968eeab86@mail.gmail.com> rpc.mountd is usually part of NFS On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 9:33 AM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > What starts rpc.mount? I rebooted a server last night and rpc.mount > started up, taking port 993 from dovecot and thus borking the ability to > retrieve email. I found the offending process with lsof -i, but I don't > use rpc, so I want this to never happen again. Any suggestions? > Thanks. > -- > > yours, > > William > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFIrsBCHQtmiuz+KT8RAnnbAJ9osBRcWT6dMmkyZCuGTLsqDKc4LwCePN5V > ebt031/6dimiapnYXNp8Kfs= > =DzTp > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 14:47:23 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:47:23 -0400 Subject: What starts rpc.mount? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0808220725p16578b42t86023f8968eeab86-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080822133354.GA6514@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <3a97ef0808220725p16578b42t86023f8968eeab86@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080822144723.GA6800@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 10:25:31AM -0400, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> What starts rpc.mount? I rebooted a server last night and rpc.mount >> started up, taking port 993 from dovecot and thus borking the ability to >> retrieve email. I found the offending process with lsof -i, but I don't >> use rpc, so I want this to never happen again. Any suggestions? >> Thanks. > >rpc.mountd is usually part of NFS Well, I'm not using NFS, so can I just uninstall it, or is there a good way to disable it? I've never had any problems like this or had cause to care if NFS was on my machine before. Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 14:47:28 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:47:28 -0400 Subject: virtual machines able to network between host and guest os In-Reply-To: <48ADFDC2.9010409-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <48ADFDC2.9010409@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0808220747j21a00ae2j15ad0068a96979e0@mail.gmail.com> I've managed my host OS from VirtualBox (SCP, etc), but not the other way around (also IP 10.0.2.15). VMWare uses a Tunnel for network connectivity, but from the docs it appears that VirtualBox uses a username NAT. There's some discussion of it online in their forums: http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?t=8561 I haven't tried it myself though, but now that you've brought up the question perhaps I'll find some time this weekend to see about playing with the networking. On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 7:44 PM, teddymills wrote: > > My computer runs Ubuntu and eth0 IP 192.168.1.10 > My VirtualBox IP of EzCacti is 10.0.2.15 > Guest OS EzCacti can access the internet, but cannot ping anywhere. (no > problems there) > Guest OS EzCacti is not accessible from my host Ubuntu OS. (this is the > problem) > > Are there any other virtual machines, that allow the > HOST OS and Guest OS to communicate via the network? > > With network trickery, can you make VirtualBox do this? > > /teddy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 16:06:20 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:06:20 -0400 Subject: Why Corporates Hate Perl Discussion on Slashdot Message-ID: <48AEE3FC.4020707@dinamis.com> I thought this was spot on and quite amusing: "That's because PERL, even good PERL, looks like an explosion at the punctuation factory compared to a vast majority of other languages." -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 16:45:56 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:45:56 -0400 Subject: Little Linux Laptop: $324.46 In-Reply-To: <48AE35F9.50104-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <48AE35F9.50104@telly.org> Message-ID: <20080822164556.GG12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 11:43:53PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > This looks like an interesting deal. > > This week, Buy.com Canada is taking 7% off all prices. This includes > their listing for the Acer One, which is an EeePC-like system. > > Specs (cut and pasted from the Acer site): Linpus Linux Lite; > English/French OS (user must make one-time choice of language on first > start-up); Intel?? Atom Processor N270 (512KB L2 cache, 1.60GHz, 533MHz > FSB); 512MB DDR2 533 SDRAM; 8GB NAND flash memory (SSD), multi-in-one > card reader, SD Card reader; 8.9" WSVGA (1024 x 600) TFT display, Acer?? > CrystalBrite Technology; Intel?? Graphics Media Accelerator 950; > 802.11b/g WLAN, 10/100 LAN, webcam; seashell white chassis; three-cell > battery > > Another version, including a 120GB hard disk instead of 8GB SSD (and > blue instead of white), is selling for the same price. > > Note: I have no financial interest in this, I don't know any more about > it, I've never bought from buy.com and I won't be needing one myself. > But this seems like a very good buy for a 9" laptop, about $200 less > than the Asus 901. And isn't it nice to be able to buy computers without > the Windows Tax now? Well the reviews I have seen of the acer seem to indicate the mouse buttons are places stupidly, and the battery life is awful (compared to the Eee). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 16:47:15 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:47:15 -0400 Subject: What starts rpc.mount? In-Reply-To: <20080822133354.GA6514-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20080822133354.GA6514@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20080822164715.GH12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 09:33:54AM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > What starts rpc.mount? I rebooted a server last night and rpc.mount > started up, taking port 993 from dovecot and thus borking the ability to > retrieve email. I found the offending process with lsof -i, but I don't > use rpc, so I want this to never happen again. Any suggestions? portmap maybe, nfs-common, not sure. portmap is evil. dynamic port assignment through portmapper. What a stupid idea. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 21:37:01 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:37:01 -0400 Subject: Who is going to Linux in the Park? In-Reply-To: <1219285754.4440.13.camel-uJOd+7z+CzaU6o2RgC31msM6rOWSkUom@public.gmane.org> References: <1219285754.4440.13.camel@gnat.gordhome.local> Message-ID: On 8/20/08, Gordon Chillcott wrote: > I'm going to make a point of being there. > > As to the samosas, I'll see if I can get a bunch - I live fairly close > to the place on Middlefield and Finch. I was there earlier today and bought some, so there will be some at the picnic, though I am sure there would be demand for more :-) . > Gordon Colin. > On Wed, 2008-08-20 at 16:49 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >> On 8/19/08, Christopher Browne wrote: >> > On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Colin McGregor >> > wrote: >> >> Just wanted to know who else is going to Linux in the Park this coming >> >> Sunday? A summary of the event can be seen here: >> >> >> >> http://www.cluecan.ca/node/737 >> >> >> >> I don't want to get there and find I am alone :-) . >> > >> > We should probably bug Mr Patrick and see if there's anything that he >> > thinks would be sensible to bring... >> >> Excellent idea. >> >> > I understand that there's a community street party the previous day, >> > which frequently has decent leftovers (and some leftover >> > "infrastructure"); I'm not sure what more ought to be considered: >> > >> > a) Beer's NOT welcome, as Bickford Park is a public place, and laws >> > are incongruent with that being permissible; >> > >> > b) Having a BBQ is possibly-dodgy, unless Mr. Patrick has something >> > figured out to that end; >> >> Yes, if memory serves there are a number of rules for BBQs in the >> parks, like, need a permit, and all the mainland Toronto park BBQs >> must be gas BBQs (the Toronto Islands parks tolerate charcoal BBQs as >> rules prohibit propane on the normal ferries... so charcoal can be >> used at selected island locations...). >> >> > c) On occasion, people have been known to bring large quantities of >> > samosas, which have always been a big hit! I'd certainly be game to >> > chip in $20 to help make that happen :-). (Actually, if anything >> > quasi-organized is happening in that regard, let me know and I'll try >> > to locate some of the mint dipping sauce that's so good with them!); >> >> Yes, those were a great spicy treat and I would be happy to buy a >> bunch for this event, but: >> >> - I've hear stuff about there being a great samosas shop at/near >> Finch/Midland. Exactly what place is that and is that the best place >> for good/cheap samosas? >> >> - Samosas are great, but there is more to a picnic than samosas. How >> do we co-ordinate things so that say half the attendees don't say show >> up with 50 samosas each? In other words what other stuff should we >> bring? >> >> > d) Soft drinks might be already available (in "leftover" form!) which >> > is worth asking David about. >> >> Good point. Semi-related point, are there speciality soft drinks that >> would be enjoyed? Say Irn-Bru (www.irn-bru.co.uk) or Inca Kola >> (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca_Kola), both of which can be found without >> much effort in the GTA. >> >> >> Colin McGregor >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 22:32:42 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:32:42 -0400 Subject: Who is going to Linux in the Park? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808221532r4bd10efeo308f083aadc53748@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > Just wanted to know who else is going to Linux in the Park this coming > Sunday? A summary of the event can be seen here: > > http://www.cluecan.ca/node/737 > > I don't want to get there and find I am alone :-) . I won't be able to make it this year - have to work. :( Looking forward to reading about it at linuxcaffe.com though. ;-) -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 02:03:28 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 22:03:28 -0400 Subject: More details about Linux in the Park. Message-ID: Spoke to David Patrick this evening down at Linuxcaffe. Now, it may be an issue with gmail, but David says he has posted some comments re: Linux in the Park, but I have yet to see them... Any event David plans to bring the following to the picnic on Sunday: - Drinks (lemonaid, etc....) park rules do NOT allow any anything with alcohol in it... - Giant penguin - A BBQ What you need to bring: - Yourself - Any meat if you want it (burgers etc.). - Depending you weather / skin type you may want to bring sunscreen lotion... Nice would bring some extra snacks (I will be bringing some somosas...), and note what you are going to bring here, so not everyone brings the same stuff... I will also bring some copies of Fedora 9 to give away... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 18:42:12 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 14:42:12 -0400 Subject: AS/400 How does it look? Message-ID: Hallo there, I happen to notice that a lot of Canadian companies uses IBM AS/400. However, I haven't been fortunate to come across it and I am curious how it look. Does it have any familiarity to Unix? What would be reason that make it more popular in Canada than in USA? Just curious. Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 20:18:09 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 16:18:09 -0400 Subject: AS/400 How does it look? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 2:42 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > Hallo there, > > I happen to notice that a lot of Canadian companies uses IBM AS/400. > However, I haven't been fortunate to come across it and I am curious > how it look. Does it have any familiarity to Unix? What would be > reason that make it more popular in Canada than in USA? > > Just curious. AS/400 is the latest iteration of IBM's "midrange" systems: - System 34 - System 36 - System 38 - Then came AS/400, with OS called OS/400 I'll bet that many of the apps running on AS/400 are actually from the predecessor platforms, running in emulation mode. This is traditionally a platform where apps are mostly in COBOL and RPG, with BASIC and PL/1 as alternatives. System 38 had the somewhat unique property of having a relational database (DB2) integrated into the OS. (Microsoft was planning to "innovate" this in Longhorn; that seems rather late, as IBM did this in S/38 released in 1979!) It's sold *VERY* much as a platform for inventory and accounting systems, which is a very different branch from where Unix started (e.g. - research and document management). I suspect that the reason why it's seen more in Canada than in the US is that, as a midrange system (as distinct from IBM's mainframe line), it was cheaper to deploy for localizing the management of "branch plants" in Canada for organizations based out of other countries (e.g. - US & UK). The mainframes (e.g. - what was once S360, S370, eventually S390, and which is presently called "zSeries") would reside in the home countries, and cheaper "midrange" systems (S/34, S/36, S/38, AS/400, later "iSeries") would reside at branch operations in Canada. That's a guess, but the once I saw S/34 was in a similar case. I was working on getting a paper plant in Thunder Bay moved to new accounting software; they had been a branch plant of Abitibi Price, and the only "local" accounting was on a S/34-based system called ShawWare. I'm pretty sure Abitibi-Price was on IBM mainframes. There is *now* a Unix emulation layer in OS/400, but that's an add-on to support systems integration (e.g. - to let you get data on and off of it) as opposed to being a way you'd build apps natively for it. The hardware has historically been exceedingly proprietary (in ways that used to cause people to consider IBM "evil" in the sorts of ways that they don't like Microsoft, today). There are interesting aspects (in a "CS geek" sense) to S/38 and AS/400, but they're not likely to be too visible to typical users of the platforms. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 20:21:18 2008 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 16:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: AS/400 How does it look? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53639.192.30.202.22.1219522878.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> > Hallo there, > > I happen to notice that a lot of Canadian companies uses IBM AS/400. > However, I haven't been fortunate to come across it and I am curious > how it look. Does it have any familiarity to Unix? What would be > reason that make it more popular in Canada than in USA? > > Just curious. > > Regards, > > William Mr. Terrence Enger is our expert on that line of computers. I believe that an advanced form of RPG (Report Program Generator) is used for a lot of the applications. The hardware description is almost a trade secret. But, what do I know ? Nothing. Ask Terry. Jim McIntosh -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 22:24:00 2008 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 18:24:00 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: RE: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill] Message-ID: <48B08E00.40702@golden.net> We at least my MP responded. I guess I'll have to ask him some tougher questions now that I have his attention. John -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:13:19 -0400 From: Khan, Wajid - M.P. To: John Myshrall References: <200808190054.m7J0ssR4021409-iioVC6aiMHEdMfaqnadsTg at public.gmane.org> Dear Mr. Myshrall, Thank you for your e-mail regarding the Copyright legislation. The proposed legislation, Bill C-61, is a made-in-Canada approach that balances the needs of Canadian consumers and copyright owners, promoting culture, innovation and competition in the digital age. Specifically, it includes measures that would: * expressly allow you to record TV shows for later viewing; copy legally purchased music onto other devices, such as MP3 players or cell phones; make back-up copies of legally purchased books, newspapers, videocassettes and photographs onto devices you own; and limit the "statutory damages" a court could award for all private use copyright infringements; * implement new rights and protections for copyright holders, tailored to the Internet, to encourage participation in the online economy, as well as stronger legal remedies to address Internet piracy * clarify the roles and responsibilities of Internet Service Providers related to the copyright content flowing over their network facilities * provide photographers with the same rights as other creators The Bill does not empower border agents to seize your iPod or laptop at border crossings, contrary to recent public speculation. The Bill is not a mirror image of U.S. copyright laws. Our Bill is made-in-Canada with different exceptions for educators, consumers and others and brings us into line with more than 60 countries including Japan, France, Germany and Australia For more information, please visit the Copyright Reform Process website at www.ic.gc.ca/epic/site/crp-prda.nsf/en/home As with any bill, there will be ample opportunity for stakeholder input and public discussion. The Bill will be debated in Parliament, and will be closely examined in the Committee stage. I will be following this Bill closely as it moves through the legislative process, and ensuring that the views of my constituents are represented. Thank you for sharing your views on this important matter. Sincerely, Wajid Khan, MP Mississauga-Streetsville -----Original Message----- From: John Myshrall [mailto:jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org] Sent: August 18, 2008 8:55 PM To: Khan, Wajid - M.P. Cc: Minister.Industry-3JS968At9U0 at public.gmane.org; Verner, Jos?e - D?put?e Subject: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill August 18, 2008 Mr. Wajid Khan House of Commons Parliament Buildings Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0A6 Dear Sir, I'm a constituent who has been following recent developments in Canadian copyright law. I'm concerned that the Copyright bill (C-61) presented by the government on June 12th goes too far in outlawing the lawful use of copyrighted material, and does not take into account the needs of consumers and Canada's creative community who are exploiting the potential of digital technology. I'm disappointed that this bill adopts an American approach to digital copyright laws, instead of crafting a Canadian approach. Canada's copyright laws need to advance Canada's interests. This means copyright laws that respect ordinary consumer practices, such as unlocking cell phones and copying the contents of purchased DVDs for use in video iPods. The current bill outlaws these practices. This means copyright that facilitates the work of Canadian creators, such as documentary filmmakers, who instead find that this bill outlaws the use of DVDs as source materials for their films. This means we find made-in-Canada solutions to the challenges of file-sharing, such as consideration of the P2P proposal of the Songwriters Association of Canada. Instead, this bill paves the road to importing the consumer file-sharing lawsuit strategy that has failed so spectacularly in the United States. Canada deserves better. Please ensure that C-61 really is made for Canadians by allowing all Canadian stakeholders a say in its final contents. That means meaningful consultation in the coming months, and opening up Canada's copyright policy to more than just the special interests that lobbied behind the scenes for this law. As my MP, I urge you to represent my interests in the copyright debate. Sincerely, John Myshrall 3140 Pebblewood Road Mississauga, ON L5N6M7 Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 23:39:53 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 19:39:53 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: RE: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill] In-Reply-To: <48B08E00.40702-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <48B08E00.40702@golden.net> Message-ID: <32f6a8880808231639l3a928137ne6923b0ebdac1158@mail.gmail.com> Hi John, That response is generic, its the exact same response that the Canadian Heritage sent me. Jack Layton actually sent me a response saying he disagree's in it though... and is fighting against it... So he says.. On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 6:24 PM, John Myshrall wrote: > We at least my MP responded. I guess I'll have to ask him some tougher > questions now that I have his attention. > > John > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: RE: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill > Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:13:19 -0400 > From: Khan, Wajid - M.P. > To: John Myshrall > References: <200808190054.m7J0ssR4021409-iioVC6aiMHEdMfaqnadsTg at public.gmane.org> > > > > Dear Mr. Myshrall, > > Thank you for your e-mail regarding the Copyright legislation. > > The proposed legislation, Bill C-61, is a made-in-Canada approach that > balances the needs of Canadian consumers and copyright owners, promoting > culture, innovation and competition in the digital age. > > Specifically, it includes measures that would: > * expressly allow you to record TV shows for later viewing; copy > legally purchased music onto other devices, such as MP3 players or cell > phones; make back-up copies of legally purchased books, newspapers, > videocassettes and photographs onto devices you own; and limit the > "statutory damages" a court could award for all private use copyright > infringements; * implement new rights and protections for copyright > holders, tailored to the Internet, to encourage participation in the online > economy, as well as stronger legal remedies to address Internet piracy * > clarify the roles and responsibilities of Internet Service Providers > related to the copyright content flowing over their network facilities * > provide photographers with the same rights as other creators > The Bill does not empower border agents to seize your iPod or laptop at > border crossings, contrary to recent public speculation. > > The Bill is not a mirror image of U.S. copyright laws. Our Bill is > made-in-Canada with different exceptions for educators, consumers and others > and brings us into line with more than 60 countries including Japan, France, > Germany and Australia > > > For more information, please visit the Copyright Reform Process website at > www.ic.gc.ca/epic/site/crp-prda.nsf/en/home > > As with any bill, there will be ample opportunity for stakeholder input and > public discussion. The Bill will be debated in Parliament, and will be > closely examined in the Committee stage. I will be following this Bill > closely as it moves through the legislative process, and ensuring that the > views of my constituents are represented. > > Thank you for sharing your views on this important matter. > > Sincerely, > > Wajid Khan, MP > Mississauga-Streetsville > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Myshrall [mailto:jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org] Sent: August 18, 2008 8:55 > PM > To: Khan, Wajid - M.P. > Cc: Minister.Industry-3JS968At9U0 at public.gmane.org; Verner, Jos?e - D?put?e > Subject: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill > > > August 18, 2008 > > Mr. Wajid Khan > House of Commons > Parliament Buildings > Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0A6 > > Dear Sir, > > I'm a constituent who has been following recent developments in > Canadian copyright law. I'm concerned that the Copyright bill (C-61) > presented by the government on June 12th goes too far in outlawing > the lawful use of copyrighted material, and does not take into > account the needs of consumers and Canada's creative community who > are exploiting the potential of digital technology. I'm disappointed > that this bill adopts an American approach to digital copyright laws, > instead of crafting a Canadian approach. > > Canada's copyright laws need to advance Canada's interests. This > means copyright laws that respect ordinary consumer practices, such > as unlocking cell phones and copying the contents of purchased DVDs > for use in video iPods. The current bill outlaws these practices. This > means copyright that facilitates the work of Canadian creators, > such as documentary filmmakers, who instead find that this bill > outlaws the use of DVDs as source materials for their films. This > means we find made-in-Canada solutions to the challenges of > file-sharing, such as consideration of the P2P proposal of the > Songwriters Association of Canada. Instead, this bill paves the road > to importing the consumer file-sharing lawsuit strategy that has > failed so spectacularly in the United States. Canada deserves > better. > > Please ensure that C-61 really is made for Canadians by allowing all > Canadian stakeholders a say in its final contents. That means > meaningful consultation in the coming months, and opening up Canada's > copyright policy to more than just the special interests that lobbied > behind the scenes for this law. As my MP, I urge you to represent my > interests in the copyright debate. > > > > Sincerely, > > John Myshrall > 3140 Pebblewood Road > > Mississauga, ON L5N6M7 > Canada > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 00:37:39 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 20:37:39 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: RE: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill] In-Reply-To: <48B08E00.40702-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <48B08E00.40702@golden.net> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808231737k200fc724kc02e8792ee76d034@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 6:24 PM, John Myshrall wrote: > We at least my MP responded. I guess I'll have to ask him some tougher > questions now that I have his attention. Here's the response from my MP - Wayne Marston, NDP Dear Mr. Elcomb, Thank you for voicing your concerns about the copyright bill, C-61. For the last two years the NDP has been warning the government not to attempt to bring forward restrictive U.S.-style DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) legislation. We urged them to consult with stakeholders and develop legislation that would protect artists, innovators and consumers in the 21st century. Unfortunately, the government has completely ignored calls to bring forward reasonable copyright legislation. In fact, this bill is worse than originally feared. There is no evidence of an attempt to strike any reasonable balance that would protect either artists or consumers. Instead, we are faced with a full capitulation to the U.S. corporate lobby that will pave the way for the criminalization of perfectly reasonable behaviour (like format shifting of most legally purchased content). Across the country, people like you are coming together to oppose this legislation in online chatrooms, on facebook and in coffee shops. They are voicing their concerns with the legislation by writing elected officials, by posting comments on web-pages dedicated to the copyright discussion, and by writing letters-to-the-editor that call for a truly balanced approach. Thank you for being among them. The NDP is strongly opposed to this bill and we are calling on MPs from other parties to listen to their constituents and join us in the growing chorus against it. We are pushing for legislation that will ensure that artists and creators are compensated for their work but that also ensures consumers are able to enjoy reasonable rights of access. I would strongly encourage you to stay active in this fight by putting the heat on the Ministers of Industry and Heritage, the Prime Minister, and the leaders of the other opposition parties. Whether you call, write, email, or all of the above, your participation will be important to making our opposition to this bill impossible to ignore. Thank you again for getting involved. All the best, Wayne Marston, MP Hamilton East - Stoney Creek -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 02:29:45 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 22:29:45 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: RE: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill] In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0808231737k200fc724kc02e8792ee76d034-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <48B08E00.40702@golden.net> <99a6c38f0808231737k200fc724kc02e8792ee76d034@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880808231929j4ea9339csbcd9528a6748a5e3@mail.gmail.com> This is my reply from Jack Layton. Thank you for sharing your concern over Bill C-61, An Act to amend the Copyright Act. The NDP is strongly opposed to this bill and we are calling on MPs from other parties to listen to their constituents and join us in the growing chorus against it. Rather, we are pushing for legislation that will ensure that artists and creators are compensated for their work but that also ensures consumers are able to enjoy reasonable rights of access. Over the past two years we have urged the government to consult with stakeholders and develop legislation that would protect artists, innovators and consumers in the 21st century. Unfortunately, the government has completely ignored calls to bring forward reasonable copyright legislation. In fact, this bill is worse than originally feared. There is no evidence of an attempt to strike any reasonable balance that would protect either artists or consumers. Instead, we are faced with a full capitulation to the U.S. corporate lobby that will pave the way for the criminalization of perfectly reasonable behaviour (like format shifting of most legally purchased content). What can you do? If you haven't already, contact the Ministers of Industry and Heritage, the Prime Minister, the leaders of the other opposition parties, and your local MP to tell them that you oppose this piece of legislation. Encourage your friends and families to do the same. For contact information, please visit: http://www.parl.gc.ca/common/index.asp?Language=E. Your participation will be important to making the opposition to this bill impossible to ignore. Again, I appreciate the time you have taken to register your views and concerns about this important issue. Feel free to pass along my email to anyone who may be interested. All the best. Sincerely, On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 8:37 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 6:24 PM, John Myshrall wrote: >> We at least my MP responded. I guess I'll have to ask him some tougher >> questions now that I have his attention. > > Here's the response from my MP - Wayne Marston, NDP > > > > Dear Mr. Elcomb, > > Thank you for voicing your concerns about the copyright bill, C-61. > For the last two years the NDP has been warning the government not to > attempt to bring forward restrictive U.S.-style DMCA (Digital > Millennium Copyright Act) legislation. We urged them to consult with > stakeholders and develop legislation that would protect artists, > innovators and consumers in the 21st century. > > Unfortunately, the government has completely ignored calls to bring > forward reasonable copyright legislation. In fact, this bill is worse > than originally feared. There is no evidence of an attempt to strike > any reasonable balance that would protect either artists or consumers. > Instead, we are faced with a full capitulation to the U.S. corporate > lobby that will pave the way for the criminalization of perfectly > reasonable behaviour (like format shifting of most legally purchased > content). > > Across the country, people like you are coming together to oppose this > legislation in online chatrooms, on facebook and in coffee shops. > They are voicing their concerns with the legislation by writing > elected officials, by posting comments on web-pages dedicated to the > copyright discussion, and by writing letters-to-the-editor that call > for a truly balanced approach. Thank you for being among them. > > The NDP is strongly opposed to this bill and we are calling on MPs > from other parties to listen to their constituents and join us in the > growing chorus against it. We are pushing for legislation that will > ensure that artists and creators are compensated for their work but > that also ensures consumers are able to enjoy reasonable rights of > access. > > I would strongly encourage you to stay active in this fight by putting > the heat on the Ministers of Industry and Heritage, the Prime > Minister, and the leaders of the other opposition parties. Whether > you call, write, email, or all of the above, your participation will > be important to making our opposition to this bill impossible to > ignore. > > Thank you again for getting involved. > > All the best, > > > Wayne Marston, MP > Hamilton East - Stoney Creek > > -- > Scott Elcomb > http://www.psema4.com/ > http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 02:44:56 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 22:44:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fwd: RE: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill] In-Reply-To: <48B08E00.40702-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <48B08E00.40702@golden.net> Message-ID: | From: John Myshrall | From: Khan, Wajid - M.P. | Specifically, it includes measures that would: | * expressly allow you to record TV shows for later viewing Not true for anything protected by DRM. Thus all Rogers digital cable broadcasts are excluded already. I don't know about other cable operators or satellite operators. But this is likely to only get worse. For one thing, analogue will go away soon. ; copy legally | purchased music onto other devices, such as MP3 players or cell phones They are restricting our current right as far as I can tell. The current "private copying" regime is more liberal * implement new rights and protections for copyright holders Like: state enforcement of DRM restrictions that go way beyond anything sanctioned by traditional copyright. Eg: you cannot skip the ads on a DVD -- that would require breaking DRM. | The Bill does not empower border agents to seize your iPod or laptop at border | crossings, contrary to recent public speculation. No, that is in other treaties being secretly negotiated (if I remember correctly). | As with any bill, there will be ample opportunity for stakeholder input and | public discussion. The whitepaper consultation was perhaps a decade ago. Those comments were mostly ignored. Then came C-60 which died on the order paper when the Liberal government fell. There was no public discussion prior to C-61, as far as I recollect. There were private discussions with certain (evil) stakeholders. I would say that this letter is intentionally misleading. Normal for politics but unacceptible to me. My comments are from a failing memory. Some "facts" need checking. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 02:53:59 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 22:53:59 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: RE: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill] In-Reply-To: <48B08E00.40702-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <48B08E00.40702@golden.net> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808231953i6f86b418vfc8beeee23615d3@mail.gmail.com> Just noticed something in this message that might be worth pointing out: On 8/23/08, John Myshrall wrote: [...] Subject: RE: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:13:19 -0400 From: Khan, Wajid - M.P. [...] > The Bill does not empower border agents to seize your iPod or laptop at > border crossings, contrary to recent public speculation. That's what ACTA, the "super-secret" Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement, is for. Interestingly - as a trade agreement it apparently doesn't require parliamentary oversight. I say "super-secret" because for some reason information has been really hard to come by in Canada. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 03:42:06 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 23:42:06 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: RE: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill] In-Reply-To: References: <48B08E00.40702@golden.net> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808232042m78ef7905kcb30c189d8621b82@mail.gmail.com> On 8/23/08, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: John Myshrall > > | From: Khan, Wajid - M.P. > > | Specifically, it includes measures that would: > | * expressly allow you to record TV shows for later viewing > > Not true for anything protected by DRM. Thus all Rogers digital cable > broadcasts are excluded already. I don't know about other cable > operators or satellite operators. But this is likely to only get > worse. For one thing, analogue will go away soon. IIRC, stations may continue to support analogue transmissions if they wish. (I hope.) Haven't heard much about it in quite a while though. > | As with any bill, there will be ample opportunity for stakeholder input and > | public discussion. > > The whitepaper consultation was perhaps a decade ago. Those comments > were mostly ignored. Then came C-60 which died on the order paper > when the Liberal government fell. There was no public discussion > prior to C-61, as far as I recollect. There were private discussions > with certain (evil) stakeholders. I don't recall hearing about public discussions for C-61 either. When I spoke with Stephane Dion on Wednesday during the bloggers reception, I asked him (paraphrasing): If there is a fall election and the Liberals come to power, what would he do about C-61. His response was to start over from scratch and include public discussion. He asked for my business card and offered to call me as "a witness" in future committees. During the townhall proper, another fellow asked about C-61 and received much the same answer and offer. I'll blog my take on the townhall in a day or two - when I get some time. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 04:18:00 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 00:18:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: a good discussion of new copyright bill Message-ID: This 1-hour on-line discussion at the globe is worth a read http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080613.wgtcopyrightchat0613/BNStory/Technology/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 04:55:57 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 00:55:57 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: RE: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill] In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0808232042m78ef7905kcb30c189d8621b82-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <48B08E00.40702@golden.net> <99a6c38f0808232042m78ef7905kcb30c189d8621b82@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 8/23/08, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 8/23/08, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> | From: John Myshrall >> | From: Khan, Wajid - M.P. >> | Specifically, it includes measures that would: >> | * expressly allow you to record TV shows for later viewing >> >> Not true for anything protected by DRM. Thus all Rogers digital cable >> broadcasts are excluded already. I don't know about other cable >> operators or satellite operators. But this is likely to only get >> worse. For one thing, analogue will go away soon. > > IIRC, stations may continue to support analogue transmissions if they > wish. (I hope.) Haven't heard much about it in quite a while though. No... As of February 17, 2009 ALL full power analog TV stations in the USA MUST shut down. After February 17, 2008 if you want to watch over the air TV broadcasts from the US you must have a TV with an ATSC (digital tuner) or you must have an ATSC digital to NTSC analog converter box... In Canada the analog shutdown date is August 31, 2011... Now the cable TV companies can continue to offer analog service for more-or-less as long as they want (keeping in mind that because of the ability to fit more channels in a given amount of bandwidth, they cable companies will want to move to digital ASAP... sigh...). My one toe in the digital ATSC waters is a pcHDTV-5500 TV tuner card for my MythTV box. The pcHDTV-5500 card can be configured to accept ATSC or QAM digital broadcasts. This means that I can use my MythTV box as the biggest, ugliest converter box going :-) . Returning to the question of the new copyright law, the pcHDTV-5500 TV tuner card is a problem. The software for the card is all open source and at present ignores the "broadcast flag", This would be a problem with the any circumvention provisions of the bill... Of the top of my head I don't know of a way for me to run Linux and stay with in the letter of this new law... >> | As with any bill, there will be ample opportunity for stakeholder input >> and >> | public discussion. >> >> The whitepaper consultation was perhaps a decade ago. Those comments >> were mostly ignored. Then came C-60 which died on the order paper >> when the Liberal government fell. There was no public discussion >> prior to C-61, as far as I recollect. There were private discussions >> with certain (evil) stakeholders. > > I don't recall hearing about public discussions for C-61 either. When > I spoke with Stephane Dion on Wednesday during the bloggers reception, > I asked him (paraphrasing): If there is a fall election and the > Liberals come to power, what would he do about C-61. His response was > to start over from scratch and include public discussion. He asked > for my business card and offered to call me as "a witness" in future > committees. > > During the townhall proper, another fellow asked about C-61 and > received much the same answer and offer. I'll blog my take on the > townhall in a day or two - when I get some time. > > -- > Scott Elcomb > http://www.psema4.com/ > http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 06:06:57 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 02:06:57 -0400 Subject: [OT]: My take on the Oakville Townhall Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808232306m65ad04aej5fd35df05099c7b9@mail.gmail.com> Given the other recent threads on Copyright I've put together a quick post on my perceptions of the Oakville Townhall. If anyone's interested, it doesn't get very deep into Copyright reform, Bill C-61, or ACTA - I'll get to those topics when I've more time. The post contains a link to Garth Turner's blog where you can find an hour long video of the Townhall meeting (but unfortunately not the blogger's reception). "The Hackers Itch" can be found at www.psema4.com/blog/ -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.psema4.com/blog/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 10:37:24 2008 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 03:37:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: virtual machines able to network between host and guest os In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0808220747j21a00ae2j15ad0068a96979e0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0808220747j21a00ae2j15ad0068a96979e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <266588.12384.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Create a software bridge and then use host interface in Virtualbox. If you are not interested to access other machines from your guest OS then you can try internal network without creating the bridge. You can put the bridge creating script in /etc/network/if-up.d so that it will run at boot time. Hope that helps, EK --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Tyler Aviss wrote: From: Tyler Aviss Subject: Re: [TLUG]: virtual machines able to network between host and guest os To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Received: Friday, August 22, 2008, 10:47 AM I've managed my host OS from VirtualBox (SCP, etc), but not the other way around (also IP 10.0.2.15). VMWare uses a Tunnel for network connectivity, but from the docs it appears that VirtualBox uses a username NAT. There's some discussion of it online in their forums: http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?t=8561 I haven't tried it myself though, but now that you've brought up the question perhaps I'll find some time this weekend to see about playing with the networking. On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 7:44 PM, teddymills wrote: > > My computer runs Ubuntu and eth0 IP 192.168.1.10 > My VirtualBox IP of EzCacti is 10.0.2.15 > Guest OS EzCacti can access the internet, but cannot ping anywhere. (no > problems there) > Guest OS EzCacti is not accessible from my host Ubuntu OS. (this is the > problem) > > Are there any other virtual machines, that allow the > HOST OS and Guest OS to communicate via the network? > > With network trickery, can you make VirtualBox do this? > > /teddy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 11:05:41 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 07:05:41 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: RE: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill] In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0808232042m78ef7905kcb30c189d8621b82-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <48B08E00.40702@golden.net> <99a6c38f0808232042m78ef7905kcb30c189d8621b82@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48B14085.8070601@rogers.com> Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 8/23/08, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >> | From: John Myshrall >> >> | From: Khan, Wajid - M.P. >> >> | Specifically, it includes measures that would: >> | * expressly allow you to record TV shows for later viewing >> >> Not true for anything protected by DRM. Thus all Rogers digital cable >> broadcasts are excluded already. I don't know about other cable >> operators or satellite operators. But this is likely to only get >> worse. For one thing, analogue will go away soon. >> > > IIRC, stations may continue to support analogue transmissions if they > wish. (I hope.) Haven't heard much about it in quite a while though. > > American TV stations will cease analog transmissions next February. I haven't heard of any such deadline for Canada, but it's likely only a matter of time. Cable companies can continue to convert to analog for as long as they wish, but eventually, they too will likely drop it. It would appear Rogers is no longer offering analog service to new subscribers. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 17:34:25 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 13:34:25 -0400 Subject: [OT]: Facebook Group link continously reloads Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808241034m350b0b5bu2ddba56cf9c3c6c0@mail.gmail.com> Not sure if anyone around here has created a Facebook Group before, but I'm looking for help/advice if so. During the initial stages for the Georgia/Russia crises I started a Facebook group called "Cool Heads." The purpose was to "ask the 'Heads Of State' to keep cool heads." It is still the primary purpose, but now that things are "cooling down," I want to expand the groups' focus a bit to include new developments. (ie. Cold War 2.0) I've linked to the group from my website (psema4.com) but whenever I try to access that particular link it just loads and reloads continuously. If I login to Facebook and access the Group page everything's fine. Maybe I'm missing something simple? If anyone can help that would be great. If not, I'll see what I can get directly from FB. TIA, - Scott. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.psema4.com/blog/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 21:45:31 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 17:45:31 -0400 Subject: AS/400 How does it look? In-Reply-To: <53639.192.30.202.22.1219522878.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <53639.192.30.202.22.1219522878.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <1219614331.6750.128.camel@jaguar-hardy> On Sat, 2008-08-23 at 16:21 -0400, jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Hallo there, > > > > I happen to notice that a lot of Canadian companies uses IBM AS/400. > > However, I haven't been fortunate to come across it and I am curious > > how it look. Does it have any familiarity to Unix? What would be > > reason that make it more popular in Canada than in USA? > > > > Just curious. > > > > Regards, > > > > William > > > Mr. Terrence Enger is our expert on that line of computers. Thank you for the plug, Jim. > > I believe that an advanced form of RPG (Report Program Generator) is used > for a lot of the applications. > > The hardware description is almost a trade secret. > But, what do I know ? Nothing. Well, not quite nothing, if I remember right . > Ask Terry. Oh my, there is a lot I would like to say. Meanwhile, I am drafting a reply to Christopher Browne's reply, and I am asking one of my AS/400 mailing lists for suggestions about what I should emphasize. > > Jim McIntosh > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 21:57:44 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 17:57:44 -0400 Subject: Privacy Commissioner Rules USA Patriot Act Privacy Risks Mirrored in Canada Message-ID: <48B1D958.8040004@dinamis.com> Hi, The thread about C-61 had me reading some articles on Michael Geist's site and I came across this one: . There have been past requests on the list from people who were looking for hosting providers whose servers were located in Canada. Though we fit that bill and would benefit from catering to that desire, I had argued that picking a hosting provider on that basis alone was misguided. The article referenced above confirms that. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 21:59:04 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 17:59:04 -0400 Subject: AS/400 How does it look? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1219615144.6750.136.camel@jaguar-hardy> On Sat, 2008-08-23 at 16:18 -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 2:42 PM, William Muriithi > wrote: > > Hallo there, > > > > I happen to notice that a lot of Canadian companies uses IBM AS/400. > > However, I haven't been fortunate to come across it and I am curious > > how it look. Does it have any familiarity to Unix? If you want to feel really at home, run Linux or AIX in a separate partition. Withing AS/400 you can feel somewhat at home, even though a lot of installations choose not to display that facet of the system. (*) One of the command interpreters is quite similar to `bash`. But if you look closely you will notice oddities like the fact that `echo` lacks the -n option, and `touch` has an extra option -C . And a lot of the utilities you are used to having must be downloaded separately. Still, it is quite close enough to run a large part of the cvs test suite with only minor tweaks. (*) You have directories and files and pathnames. But if you look closely, you will notice that files have more permission bits than you are used to. And text files have an associated code pages. And certain mounted filesystems impose draconian limits on the names you can use. And some of the files are in fact database tables, and these do not play nicely with Unix utilities like `grep`. And some of the files are programs, which are not actually files at all. I find all of these qualifications are less problematic than they sound. (*) You will feel completely at home with some features, for example, the configuration files for the apache server, for example. There are, as well, parts of the system which are quite different. Being mostly familiar with these other parts, I cannot predict whether a new arrival from a Unix background would find them on the one hand merely strange or on the other hand very, very strange . > What would be > > reason that make it more popular in Canada than in USA? > > > > Just curious. > > AS/400 is the latest iteration of IBM's "midrange" systems: > - System 34 > - System 36 > - System 38 > - Then came AS/400, with OS called OS/400 Before the 34, there was the System/32, and before that the System/3. Since the introduction of the AS/400 in 1988, IBM has changed the name several times: iSeries, i5, System i. > > I'll bet that many of the apps running on AS/400 are actually from the > predecessor platforms, running in emulation mode. Code which was compiled on the System/36 and earlier is recompiled for the AS/400 or whatever the nom-du-jour is. The System/32, System/34, and System/36 had an interpreted command language, and an "execution environment" on the 400 interprets almost the whole language and more besides. The System/38 had its control language, which could be either interpreted or compiled, and on the 400 that language can be either interpreted or compiled. So, the old programs are at least as well integrated as the term "emulation mode" suggests. Compiled programs from the System/38 as far back as 1978 run without recompiling. They automatically execute as 64-bit programs on the current hardware. When we get 96-bit hardware, they will run as 96-bit programs. Meanwhile, I believe--without ever having worked with it--that the AIX emulation environment used to be more nearly "emulation". I do not know how true that is in the current generation of systems. > > This is traditionally a platform where apps are mostly in COBOL and > RPG, with BASIC and PL/1 as alternatives. System 38 had the somewhat > unique property of having a relational database (DB2) integrated into > the OS. (Microsoft was planning to "innovate" this in Longhorn; that > seems rather late, as IBM did this in S/38 released in 1979!) Is there any other released OS with integrated relational database? E.S.Raymond, "The Art of Unix Programming" makes a good case for the value of "textuality". But when you always have database facilities available, they quickly become almost as useful. > > It's sold *VERY* much as a platform for inventory and accounting > systems, which is a very different branch from where Unix started > (e.g. - research and document management). > > I suspect that the reason why it's seen more in Canada than in the US > is that, as a midrange system (as distinct from IBM's mainframe line), > it was cheaper to deploy for localizing the management of "branch > plants" in Canada for organizations based out of other countries (e.g. > - US & UK). The mainframes (e.g. - what was once S360, S370, > eventually S390, and which is presently called "zSeries") would reside > in the home countries, and cheaper "midrange" systems (S/34, S/36, > S/38, AS/400, later "iSeries") would reside at branch operations in > Canada. > > That's a guess, but the once I saw S/34 was in a similar case. I was > working on getting a paper plant in Thunder Bay moved to new > accounting software; they had been a branch plant of Abitibi Price, > and the only "local" accounting was on a S/34-based system called > ShawWare. I'm pretty sure Abitibi-Price was on IBM mainframes. > > There is *now* a Unix emulation layer in OS/400, but that's an add-on > to support systems integration (e.g. - to let you get data on and off > of it) as opposed to being a way you'd build apps natively for it. Of the Unix-y environments, the AIX environment (shell program QP2SHELL) is most accurately "emulation". How does this do transfer or conversion better than the other available facilities? Or, do I misunderstand something? > The hardware has historically been exceedingly proprietary (in ways > that used to cause people to consider IBM "evil" in the sorts of ways > that they don't like Microsoft, today). > > There are interesting aspects (in a "CS geek" sense) to S/38 and > AS/400, but they're not likely to be too visible to typical users of > the platforms. And for this purpose, you can include application programmers with the users (if you did not mean that already). One of the reasons for my productivity as a programmer--pay no attention to the jeering from the cheap seats--is the vast amount of advanced technology which I need not pay attention to. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 22:09:57 2008 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 18:09:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: AS/400 How does it look? In-Reply-To: <1219615144.6750.136.camel@jaguar-hardy> References: <1219615144.6750.136.camel@jaguar-hardy> Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Aug 2008, Terrence Enger wrote: > On Sat, 2008-08-23 at 16:18 -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: ... > Withing AS/400 you can feel somewhat at home, even though a lot of > installations choose not to display that facet of the system. > > (*) One of the command interpreters is quite similar to `bash`. But if > you look closely you will notice oddities like the fact that `echo` > lacks the -n option, IOW, it follows the POSIX standard: "Implementations [of echo] shall not support any options." That's good. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 22:31:23 2008 From: sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 15:31:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Some more political no-goodism In-Reply-To: <48B1D958.8040004-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48B1D958.8040004@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <870446.97798.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> All the political discussion is making me think, so I'll just origami up a tinfoil hat and give vent to some shameless speculation. I noticed a couple of weeks ago that the hearing on Net throttling was postponed until October. Then I saw that one of Steve's clone army was expressing her concern that online court rulings were being accessed by God knows who. I wondered why this kind of foolishness was getting put out, but then when I saw the recent stuff about a snap election call I started to wonder. Perhaps standing up for privacy rights has better public appeal that being seen lining up with those download throttling ISPs :-; Rob Sutherland http://www.myspace.com/gylany -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 22:42:35 2008 From: sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 15:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: AS/400 How does it look? In-Reply-To: <1219615144.6750.136.camel@jaguar-hardy> References: <1219615144.6750.136.camel@jaguar-hardy> Message-ID: <152966.28734.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> > And for this purpose, you can include application > programmers with the > users (if you did not mean that already). One of the > reasons for my > productivity as a programmer--pay no attention to the > jeering from the > cheap seats--is the vast amount of advanced technology > which I need not > pay attention to. Amen to that. The amount of sheer jerking about you have to do to keep up with the latest is awesome. I got a lot more accomplished when it was just me, a text editor and a compiler. System 34 etc were not too bad - OTOH, using MVS was kind of like kicking a dead whale down the beach. I must admit, I kind of liked 'programming' in RPG, once you memorized the flowchart, that is :-) Rob Rob Sutherland http://www.myspace.com/gylany -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 22:51:23 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 18:51:23 -0400 Subject: AS/400 command definitions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1219618283.6750.149.camel@jaguar-hardy> Greetings, This is verging off-topic, so I feel a bit bad about picking on the nice people on this this. Still, I expect never to get a better excuse to expound on one of my fetishes, the "command definition" facility provided by the AS/400. Consider three familiar facilities: (*) You may be familiar with man pages provided for linux programs. They are informative, but I often have to jump back and forth between reading in one terminal window and typing at the command line in another terminal window. (*) Another useful item is a procedure prototype, something you will see many examples of in a C or java program. The name of a parameter may be a bit terse as an explanation, but you do get compile-time type-checking. Of course, procedures are not programs. (*) Every day, you follow lots of hyperlinks through the net. On the rare occasion you have to enter some information, the prompt is right in front of you to remind you what you are doing. Still, web pages are not programs. Now imagine a language, mostly declarative, which defines a prototype for a *program*. You provide brief prompt text for each option or parameter, rules for validation of parameters and relationships between parameters, and a hyperlink into the man page for the program and for each option or parameter. Imagine that you are working at a command line or editing program source code, and you can call up a display of this information. Beside the prompt text, you type in values for each option or parameter you need. When you are done and the values satisfy the validation rules, the generated command string is delivered to the command interpreter or into your source file. Ahhh! Doesn't that feel good? Cheers, Terry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 00:26:58 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 20:26:58 -0400 Subject: AS/400 How does it look? In-Reply-To: <1219615144.6750.136.camel@jaguar-hardy> References: <1219615144.6750.136.camel@jaguar-hardy> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808241726s732d8a33y92bb06200bd3c56c@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 5:59 PM, Terrence Enger wrote:> [...]--pay no attention to the jeering from the > cheap seats--[...] Having been up for some 30 hours and in the face of other personal difficulties I'm going to limit my comments as follows: * I've worked as an Operator in a couple of Data Centers hosting AS/400 environments & applications. Terrence, you're a (note the small-g!) god in this sense. Thank you for divulging even these tidbits of information. I for one find them very helpful. I only wish I'd had you're knowledge years ago; that would've been spectacular. * I'm not entirely certain I understand you're reference to "the jeering from the cheap seats." Although not entirely on-topic for this list I believe it to be an important discussion - even if for no other reason than that the knowledge you're handing out is hard to find elsewhere. Maybe I haven't looked in the right places before. Still I, and possibly/probably the OP find your comments informative. I'd like to make additional comments on some specific points you've made in this thread - and the other on AS/400 Command Definitions - but to be certain, I need to sleep first. Thanks for your posts. - Scott. PS - I'm sure many on this list could also tell you about my affections for "off-topic" information. ;-) -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.psema4.com/blog/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 00:59:44 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 20:59:44 -0400 Subject: Bill C-61 site... In-Reply-To: <20080818132913.GD5067-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20080818132913.GD5067@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <48B20400.1040403@chrisaitken.net> Neil Watson wrote: > I mailed the Markham Liberal MP, a liberal, a few months ago. His > response was that he will look into it before voting one way or the > other. I can post a copy here if anyone is interested. > I sat down over coffee with Charlie Angus a few weeks ago (you can do that kind of thing in the north) and discussed this bill. I believe he is fighting it hard. Sounds like it's kind of his baby. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 01:07:58 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:07:58 -0400 Subject: Bill C-61 site... In-Reply-To: <48B20400.1040403-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080818132913.GD5067@watson-wilson.ca> <48B20400.1040403@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <48B205EE.2070705@rogers.com> Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > sat down over coffee with Charlie Angus a few weeks ago (you can do > that kind of thing in the north) In the north? As in way up past Steeles? ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 01:19:18 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:19:18 -0400 Subject: AS/400 How does it look? In-Reply-To: <152966.28734.qm-RyNgWUfQ9Bf5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <152966.28734.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1219627158.6750.179.camel@jaguar-hardy> On Sun, 2008-08-24 at 15:42 -0700, Rob Sutherland wrote: > > And for this purpose, you can include application > > programmers with the > > users (if you did not mean that already). One of the > > reasons for my > > productivity as a programmer--pay no attention to the > > jeering from the > > cheap seats--is the vast amount of advanced technology > > which I need not > > pay attention to. > > Amen to that. The amount of sheer jerking about you have to do > to keep up with the latest is awesome. I got a lot more accomplished when it was just me, a text editor and a compiler. System 34 etc were not > too bad Well, I fer shur can get sucked into nostalgia. It is good that there is the occasional customer with work to do on an old system; the need to get some work done can be a quick albeit shocking cure. > - OTOH, using MVS was kind of like kicking a dead > whale down the beach. I must admit, I kind of liked 'programming' in > RPG, once you memorized the flowchart, that is :-) Indeed. Younger RPG programmers boast that they will do almost anything to avoid using "the cycle". Myself, I am comfortable with the cycle, but even in the old apps I have to maintain, I don't see it very often. If I had to write a new program, and there was a good reason to use the cycle, then I would use it; I just can't remember when that last happened. ( Explanation to Linux geeks: RPG "Report Program Generator" is a programming language where every program implicitly iterates over the records of zero or more files. The implict code can merge presorted files, and it can execute sections of code at "level breaks". A level break is a change in the value in an input field. Sigh! This is a lie, but it is the best I can do if I expect *anybody* to read so far. ) Cheers, Terry. > > Rob > Rob Sutherland > http://www.myspace.com/gylany -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 01:37:53 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:37:53 -0400 Subject: Bill C-61 site... In-Reply-To: <48B205EE.2070705-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080818132913.GD5067@watson-wilson.ca> <48B20400.1040403@chrisaitken.net> <48B205EE.2070705@rogers.com> Message-ID: <48B20CF1.6030303@chrisaitken.net> James Knott wrote: > Mr Chris Aitken wrote: >> sat down over coffee with Charlie Angus a few weeks ago (you can do >> that kind of thing in the north) > > In the north? As in way up past Steeles? ;-) > Yeah, Timmins is about 700 km north. :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 02:21:46 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 22:21:46 -0400 Subject: AS/400 How does it look? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0808241726s732d8a33y92bb06200bd3c56c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1219615144.6750.136.camel@jaguar-hardy> <99a6c38f0808241726s732d8a33y92bb06200bd3c56c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1219630906.6750.223.camel@jaguar-hardy> On Sun, 2008-08-24 at 20:26 -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 5:59 PM, Terrence Enger > wrote:> > [...]--pay no attention to the jeering from the > > cheap seats--[...] > > Having been up for some 30 hours and in the face of other personal > difficulties I'm going to limit my comments as follows: Scott, Go to bed. Do not even think of reading this until tomorrow. ... Uh uh. Bed I said! > > * I've worked as an Operator in a couple of Data Centers hosting > AS/400 environments & applications. Terrence, you're a (note the > small-g!) god in this sense. Thank you for divulging even these > tidbits of information. I for one find them very helpful. I only > wish I'd had you're knowledge years ago; that would've been > spectacular. Thank you for your appreciation. The people on this list have been helpful and patient with me over the years, and I am greatly in their debt. Just hope I don't get carried away now that there is a question I know a little bit about. > > * I'm not entirely certain I understand you're reference to "the > jeering from the cheap seats." I am just self-conscious for suggesting that I am very productive as a programmer. Those imaginary jeers are saying "Terry? Productive? Hah!" > Although not entirely on-topic for > this list I believe it to be an important discussion - even if for no > other reason than that the knowledge you're handing out is hard to > find elsewhere. Maybe I haven't looked in the right places before. > Still I, and possibly/probably the OP find your comments informative. You can run a Linux partition on the AS/400. I really hate to admit it, wanting so much to be useful and all, but there are other sources around. (*) Seneca College offers courses. (*) The local user group, "Toronto Users Group for Power Systems" holds about five general meetings a year. In those meetings, you will get about ten presentations on topics of current interest, with quality ranging from very good to very, very good indeed. (I am not responsible for their web site. Absolutely not. That is my story, and I am sticking to it. Okay, I looked it up; the office telephone number is 905-607-2546.) (*) That same group runs an education conference each spring, two days of engrossing presentations and commonly another day of hands-on tutorials. I recommend it highly for anyone programming the platform or responsible for managing an installation. I write this as one who goes on my own dime. (*) midrange.com runs a bunch of mailing lists . MIDRANGE-L, for general technical discussion, is very active and informative. (*) Various installations share an AS/400 over the web. This is useful for hacking around on things in the absence of a customer. (*) The web, of course, if it needs saying. Always the web. > > I'd like to make additional comments on some specific points you've > made in this thread - and the other on AS/400 Command Definitions - > but to be certain, I need to sleep first. And just how long is it since I sent you to bed, young man? Go! Cheers, Terry. > > Thanks for your posts. > - Scott. > > > PS - I'm sure many on this list could also tell you about my > affections for "off-topic" information. ;-) > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 11:16:31 2008 From: sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Irritating software In-Reply-To: <1219630906.6750.223.camel@jaguar-hardy> References: <1219630906.6750.223.camel@jaguar-hardy> Message-ID: <280180.70681.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I know, I know, there is no irritating software, only irritated software users (or irritating software authors), but I've been struggling with a few examples of bad practice lately . The whole area of PHP debugging would make Rube Goldberg laugh, not because there are no FLOSS alternatives but because of things like this... There's a guy called Dmitri Dmitrienko who wrote a package called dbg that allows you to debug PHP. The instructions for installation are pretty standard... --------- $./configure --enable-dbg=shared \ --with-dbg-profiler \ --with-php-config=/path/to/php-config \ --prefix=/usr/lib/php4 $make $make install ----------- but, after that is a note ---------------- NOTE: I do not recommend to install php :) In other words I'd recommend to avoid running make install for PHP. On many systems it will strip down symbol table and installed executable (or shared object such as php5apache.so) will be ABSOLUTELY USELESS because it will FAIL to load ---------------- Call me crazy, but when certain optional procedure steps can mess up most people, I put the step deep in an obscure footnote instead of leaving it in the main line. This isn't a big problem for a developer, but I came across a number of posts by Mac types who tried to compile it with predictable results :-( Rob Rob Sutherland http://www.myspace.com/gylany -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 14:09:17 2008 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:09:17 -0400 Subject: OT: FS: Motarola Cable Modem Message-ID: <7c50d3570808250709t784c2996mcd5799aa235101d8@mail.gmail.com> I am selling my cable modem, it is not from Rogers, as I was living out of province. I am selling it for $50...need to sell it ASAP. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 14:12:38 2008 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 07:12:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dovecot, sieve and vacation scripts In-Reply-To: <20080818204723.GA14262-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20080818204723.GA14262@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <316564.69964.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I store vacation messages in MySQL table which ?is maintained through a web page by the user in Squirelmail.EK --- On Mon, 8/18/08, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: From: William O'Higgins Witteman Subject: [TLUG]: Dovecot, sieve and vacation scripts To: "tlug" Received: Monday, August 18, 2008, 4:47 PM I have a postfix+dovecot+amavis+clamav+sieve mail setup with virtual users. It works very nicely, and I have found a way, with .dovecot.sieve files to set up out of office vacation messages using vacation. The problem is, to write a .dovecot.sieve without my intervention, but without opening the box to probable compromise. Ideally, I'd like a web page where my users could go, log in, and set out of office messages, and they would expire without me doing anything about it. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks. -- yours, William __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 16:11:55 2008 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 12:11:55 -0400 Subject: Aug 26 NewTLUG meeting: Introduction to OpenStreetMap (reminder) Message-ID: <48B2D9CB.1000900@buynet.com> This month's NewTLUG meeting will be held at Seneca College on the YorkU campus Room S1208 Stephen E. Quinlan building Date: Tues Aug 26 Time: 7 - 10pm Presenter: Richard Weait is a regular at KwLUG and co-founder of the Ontario Linux Fest. Topics: "OpenStreetMap creates and provides free geographic data such as street maps to anyone who wants them. The project was started because most maps you think of as free actually have legal or technical restrictions on their use, holding back people from using them in creative, productive, or unexpected ways." The presenter will discuss maps in general and established on-line maps in particular. Current frame-breaking uses of OpenStreetMap will be demonstrated along with tools from each portion of the OSM tool chain so that you can begin using OSM right away. Lively discussion of the State of the Map and Crowd Source data will ensue and a good time will be had by all. You'll laugh; you'll cry; it will be better than Cats. Richard has old slide deck for Introduction to OpenStreetMap, at: http://weait.com/node/23 The new presentation is greatly expanded. also, some of us plan to go to Tim Horton's on Keele St (just north of Pond Rd) for some apres-meet discussion/debate/IT-world-problem-solving, so if you can't make the 1st meeting come to the 2nd. Location: Room S1208 Stephen E. Quinlan building (SEQ) - Seneca at York Building number 40 on the map: http://www.yorku.ca/web/futurestudents/map/KeeleMasterMap.pdf The Seneca at York Campus, which is physically located in the south east part of York University, at Keele/Steeles. Directions: For detailed directions and info on public transit, please see: http://cs.senecac.on.ca/~praveen.mitera/seneca-directions.html Parking: Paid parking is available on campus (about: $8). Building #84 on the map above is a close-by parking garage. - note #87 the parking lot is no longer for visitors so PLEASE use the parking garage (#84) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Herb Richter Richter Equipment, Toronto, Ontario http://PartsAndService.com http://www.Stand-Up-Bridletowne.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 16:25:34 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 12:25:34 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814-vmYy36s4r+PBil0kY3AMHCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> Message-ID: FYI: Here is the e-mail I received from my MP re: Bill 61. Sigh... not exactly against the bill, but not exactly for it either... Colin McGregor ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Bennett, Carolyn - M.P." Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 12:11:36 -0400 Subject: RE: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill To: Colin McGregor Dear Colin, Thank you for your correspondence regarding Bill C-61. I always appreciate having the benefit of your comments. In your email, you express your concerns regarding Bill C-61. My Liberal colleagues and I understand your concerns and we believe that the bill must strike the right balance between consumers and creators. Certainly, I believe that updating the Copyright Act to address rapid changes in technology is important. However, this is a highly technical bill and I intend to study it carefully. I am very concerned about how this bill treats technological protection measures; these provisions should not take rights away from Canadians. At the same time, my Liberal colleagues and I want to ensure that the final bill both fosters innovation and fairly compensates creators. We need wide consultation with everyone - including consumers, artists and the business community - to ensure that we properly understand all of the impacts the bill will have. The Conservatives have failed to properly consult Canadians. Please be assured that I will continue to be vigilant in the study of this issue and I will keep your concerns in mind. Once again, I thank you for taking the time to express your views on this significant subject. Your input is always welcome. Sincerely, Hon. Carolyn Bennett, P.C., M.P., M.D. Member of Parliament for St. Paul's -----Original Message----- From: Colin McGregor [mailto:colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org] Sent: August 18, 2008 8:28 AM To: Bennett, Carolyn - M.P. Cc: Minister.Industry-3JS968At9U0 at public.gmane.org; Verner, Jos?e - D?put?e Subject: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill August 18, 2008 The Honourable Carolyn Bennett House of Commons Parliament Buildings Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0A6 Dear Madam, I'm a constituent who has been following recent developments in Canadian copyright law. I'm concerned that the Copyright bill (C-61) presented by the government on June 12th goes too far in outlawing the lawful use of copyrighted material, and does not take into account the needs of consumers and Canada's creative community who are exploiting the potential of digital technology. I'm disappointed that this bill adopts an American approach to digital copyright laws, instead of crafting a Canadian approach. Canada's copyright laws need to advance Canada's interests. This means copyright laws that respect ordinary consumer practices, such as unlocking cell phones and copying the contents of purchased DVDs for use in video iPods. The current bill outlaws these practices. This means copyright that facilitates the work of Canadian creators, such as documentary filmmakers, who instead find that this bill outlaws the use of DVDs as source materials for their films. This means we find made-in-Canada solutions to the challenges of file-sharing, such as consideration of the P2P proposal of the Songwriters Association of Canada. Instead, this bill paves the road to importing the consumer file-sharing lawsuit strategy that has failed so spectacularly in the United States. Canada deserves better. Please ensure that C-61 really is made for Canadians by allowing all Canadian stakeholders a say in its final contents. That means meaningful consultation in the coming months, and opening up Canada's copyright policy to more than just the special interests that lobbied behind the scenes for this law. As my MP, I urge you to represent my interests in the copyright debate. Sincerely, Colin McGregor 151 Roehampton Ave. Toronto, ON M4P 1P9 Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 16:28:51 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 12:28:51 -0400 Subject: Aug 26 NewTLUG meeting: Introduction to OpenStreetMap (reminder) In-Reply-To: <48B2D9CB.1000900-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48B2D9CB.1000900@buynet.com> Message-ID: <1219681731.5966.18.camel@jaguar-hardy> Re: Aug 26 at Seneca College on the YorkU campus. I am planning to come down from Aurora. I am happy to offer a ride to anyone who needs one or to accept a ride from anybody who has an empty seat coming from this area. Cheers, Terry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 20:06:04 2008 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:06:04 -0400 Subject: PCI Serial Card - Debian Message-ID: <200808251606.04768.mervc@eol.ca> I have been using a card with 2 ports for several years and a couple of days ago I moved it to a new computer I just assembled. Sidux 2008 is the distro but it is basically Debian Sid with some Sidux utils. Well so far the three pieces of hardware I have tried don't work, they do with the onboard ttyS0. Setserial - a /dev/ttyS1 indicates a 16550 Uart and assigned IRQ of 20. Same for ttyS2. No UART in ttyS3. What else can I check to see if these should work? Never had a problem before with any distro and don't feel like installing SuSE 11/Mandriva etc just to see if they initialize the ports. Thoughts? and thanks... -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Sid Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.7 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hdevalence-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 22:19:31 2008 From: hdevalence-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Henry de Valence) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:19:31 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> Message-ID: <200808251819.31216.hdevalence@gmail.com> On Mon August 25 2008 12:25:34 pm Colin McGregor wrote: > FYI: > > Here is the e-mail I received from my MP re: Bill 61. Sigh... not > exactly against the bill, but not exactly for it either... > > Colin McGregor > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "Bennett, Carolyn - M.P." > Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 12:11:36 -0400 > Subject: RE: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill > To: Colin McGregor > > Dear Colin, > > Thank you for your correspondence regarding Bill C-61. I always > appreciate having the benefit of your comments. In your email, you > express your concerns regarding Bill C-61. > > My Liberal colleagues and I understand your concerns and we believe > that the bill must strike the right balance between consumers and > creators. > Certainly, I believe that updating the Copyright Act to address rapid > changes in technology is important. However, this is a highly > technical bill and I intend to study it carefully. I am very > concerned about how this bill treats technological protection > measures; these provisions should not take rights away from Canadians. > At the same time, my Liberal colleagues and I want to ensure that the > final bill both fosters innovation and fairly compensates creators. > We need wide consultation with everyone - including consumers, artists > and the business community - to ensure that we properly understand all > of the impacts the bill will have. The Conservatives have failed to > properly consult Canadians. > > Please be assured that I will continue to be vigilant in the study of > this issue and I will keep your concerns in mind. > Once again, I thank you for taking the time to express your views on > this significant subject. Your input is always welcome. > > Sincerely, > > > Hon. Carolyn Bennett, P.C., M.P., M.D. > Member of Parliament for St. Paul's I have always been amazed at how a politician can say so little using so many words... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 01:38:12 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:38:12 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> Message-ID: <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> Colin McGregor wrote: > FYI: > > Here is the e-mail I received from my MP re: Bill 61. Sigh... not > exactly against the bill, but not exactly for it either... > This is probably going to piss off a lot of people, but I'm not (only) trying to be the devil's advocate here, so I'm going to ask anyway: Isn't all this about us wanting something for nothing? I mean isn't someone spending emotion, time, and money creating, developing and distributing something that we want it for nothing. And, yeah, I know a lot of what we're talking about is degrees. I mean when a single mother is fined thousands of dollars for downloading a few songs for her kid it seems extreme. Nevertheless, are we not still talking about someone wanting something for nothing? Just because you get away with compact cassette taping LPs in the seventies, burning CDs of LPs and CDs in the eighties, burning DVDs of movies in the nineties, and downloading songs via gtkpod to iPod in the 00s, is one entitled to this forever? Should we not be grateful we enjoyed the ride for forty years? I know I sound like an idiot writing all this. I actually have read quite a bit of the articles and viewed youtube clips referred to in emails from tlug over the past few weeks, and even had a sit down with Charlie Angus. I just find it hard to make up my mind on all this. For instance, I have recently joined SOCAN and am writing and recording songs with a view to having them published and picked up by recording artists. I feel I should at least consider supporting the system that may (in part) support me some day. I'd be interested in your thoughts. Seriously. Chris > Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 02:42:09 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:42:09 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: <48B35E84.5010705-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080825224209.16023eae@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > > FYI: > > > > Here is the e-mail I received from my MP re: Bill 61. Sigh... not > > exactly against the bill, but not exactly for it either... > > > > This is probably going to piss off a lot of people, but I'm not (only) > trying to be the devil's advocate here, so I'm going to ask anyway: > > Isn't all this about us wanting something for nothing? I mean isn't > someone spending emotion, time, and money creating, developing and > distributing something that we want it for nothing. And, yeah, I know a > lot of what we're talking about is degrees. I mean when a single mother > is fined thousands of dollars for downloading a few songs for her kid it > seems extreme. Nevertheless, are we not still talking about someone > wanting something for nothing? This isn't it at all, not even remotely. The opposition to this bill has absolutely nothing to do with downloading free music. This is about an assault on fair use, enabling publishers to sue librarians or reviewers who they disagree with, enabling content distributors to charge us per device instead of per song or per album, eventually leading to, in my estimation, a situation where media companies can charge us every time we _view_ or _listen to_ a piece of media. One respondent to this thread pointed out that in fact this bill will have very very severe ramifications for open source software, since OSS tends to just ignore idiotic attempts at DRM, and anything that does not respect DRM will be illegal under this bill. This copyright bill is in no way aimed at protecting artists like yourself. It is aimed at granting the content _distributors_ all the power and all of the dough. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Leela: Bender's flying too low! And he's upside-down! Protestor: He must be talking on a cell-phone. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 02:58:23 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:58:23 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: <48B35E84.5010705-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 9:38 PM, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: >> Here is the e-mail I received from my MP re: Bill 61. Sigh... not >> exactly against the bill, but not exactly for it either... >> > > This is probably going to piss off a lot of people, but I'm not (only) > trying to be the devil's advocate here, so I'm going to ask anyway: > > Isn't all this about us wanting something for nothing? I mean isn't someone > spending emotion, time, and money creating, developing and distributing > something that we want it for nothing. And, yeah, I know a lot of what we're > talking about is degrees. I mean when a single mother is fined thousands of > dollars for downloading a few songs for her kid it seems extreme. > Nevertheless, are we not still talking about someone wanting something for > nothing? For this to work, in the absence of formal payment mechanisms, yes, indeed, there needs to be an "operating morality" where individuals do not simply feed off the system. > Just because you get away with compact cassette taping LPs in the seventies, > burning CDs of LPs and CDs in the eighties, burning DVDs of movies in the > nineties, and downloading songs via gtkpod to iPod in the 00s, is one > entitled to this forever? Should we not be grateful we enjoyed the ride for > forty years? We've grown into having a system that has encouraged increasing dishonesty, and unfortunately, a massive portion of the problem is at the "recording licensing" level, that is, the very folks lobbying for the rewrite. I trust *them* even less. > I know I sound like an idiot writing all this. I actually have read quite a > bit of the articles and viewed youtube clips referred to in emails from tlug > over the past few weeks, and even had a sit down with Charlie Angus. I just > find it hard to make up my mind on all this. For instance, I have recently > joined SOCAN and am writing and recording songs with a view to having them > published and picked up by recording artists. I feel I should at least > consider supporting the system that may (in part) support me some day. > > I'd be interested in your thoughts. Seriously. I don't think you can expect to see two nickels to rub together under the present regimen, and I would expect the revision being proposed to lead to a *lowered* expectation. Seriously. :-) Those that *really* profit from the present regimen are the "recording licensors," where the artists only see a vanishingly small proportion. The danger of the way things have been going is that there has been a risk that artists might be able to sell their art directly, and leave the licensors out of the equation. Various artists have observed that they can make more money off selling 10,000 CDs over the Internet than they would make if the albums went through the likes of SOCAN and sold hundreds of thousands of copies. Of course, if bills like C61 go through, independent sales will be curtailed because you'll be unable to play things on your DRM-controlled devices that weren't bought through the DRM sellers (e.g. - RIAA, SOCOM, and such). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 03:28:01 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 23:28:01 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: <48B35E84.5010705-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <7ac602420808252028u3bd04a8drc45b6bce835b2cb8@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 9:38 PM, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > I'd be interested in your thoughts. Seriously. There are two things that concern me the most about government-supported DRM: the disappearance of the public domain, and remote permission servers determining if and when I can experience my media. I never really appreciated Shakespeare's work in high school but it's always held up as a shining example of English literature. If DRM had existed in the 15th century, Shakespeare's estate would probably still be controlling access to his works. Strictly speaking, his works would probably be "in the public domain" as they are today, but the people controlling access via DRM could still excise payment from every high school in the land. Hopefully you'll agree that, centuries later, the right thing to do is to allow everyone unrestricted access to Hamlet. (Never mind that, AFAIK, "copyright" didn't exist in Shakespeare's time, and great art was produced nonetheless.) On the subject of remote permission servers, I think it was Yahoo! that recently shut its servers down. People who had shown themselves to be paying customers by buying DRM'ed music and allowing their music players to check with Yahoo! for permission before each performance of a "protected" work were suddenly screwed out of their money because Yahoo! no longer felt like supporting the permission-granting service. It should not be illegal for those people to find a way to listen to the music they paid for. (And, I'd argue, they shouldn't _have_ to "find a way"--they paid for the music, it should be easy to listen to.) I don't usually buy into Richard Stallman's deliberate vocabulary because I don't want to spend time explaining myself to my peers, but Digital Restrictions Management is worth the effort, I think. DRM is evil and the law should not enshrine for it a right to exist or a right to be enforced. Art is fundamentally an analogue activity and any digital means of conveying art is going to be fundamentally limited by its need to be converted into analogue form before being experienced by the audience. DRM can't change that and the law shouldn't try to help it. On a different note, I think part of the reason that copyright is even in the public consciousness right now is because of the clash between the internet and the traditional content distributors. At its core, the internet is a tool for copying information from one place to another in an efficient, speedy, and robust manner. That such a tool is available to nearly every member of the First World at trivial cost flies in the face of the RIAA's and MPAA's reason for being. The recording labels and the infrastructure they have created for themselves are a relic of a time when it was fundamentally hard to tell everyone in the United States about the latest and greatest music act. These days, you can tell the whole world about something in a fraction of a second at nearly zero incremental cost. There may be a purpose for recording labels in the future, but I hope that some sort of market Darwinism forces them to adapt or perish because the only other alternative I can see is for the internet to be castrated. Ian PS By the way, I make my living as a software developer but I also contribute to open source and free software projects. Creative works can be given away without undermining the whole "industry". -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 04:14:42 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 00:14:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: <7ac602420808252028u3bd04a8drc45b6bce835b2cb8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> <7ac602420808252028u3bd04a8drc45b6bce835b2cb8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Ian Petersen | I never really appreciated Shakespeare's work in high school but it's | always held up as a shining example of English literature. If DRM had | existed in the 15th century, Shakespeare's estate would probably still | be controlling access to his works. Strictly speaking, his works | would probably be "in the public domain" as they are today, but the | people controlling access via DRM could still excise payment from | every high school in the land. More likely: the work would be lost. At some point the "owner" might disappear and the DRM could no longer be unlocked. Copyright has traditionally be term-limited. With DRM, this is no longer the case. In fact DRM gives way more control to whover controls the DRM. Example: no book forces me to read ads but DVDs use DRM to force me to watch ads. Horrible. The proposed law makes it illegal to bypass DRM even when the use is otherwise illegal. Talk about overreaching. I made a few of these points in a letter to the editor of the Globe and Mail, but when they published it yesterday, most of that was edited out. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 05:12:09 2008 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 01:12:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Billy In-Reply-To: <48B35E84.5010705-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Aug 2008, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: ... > I have recently joined SOCAN and am writing and recording songs with > a view to having them published and picked up by recording artists. > I feel I should at least consider supporting the system that may (in > part) support me some day. You will probably be far better off not using the current system. Look at the methods other independent artists are using, successfully, to market their music. Look, for example, at . -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 06:20:13 2008 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 02:20:13 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: <48B35E84.5010705-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080826022013.409f2466.tleslie@tcn.net> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:38:12 -0400 Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > > FYI: > > > > Here is the e-mail I received from my MP re: Bill 61. Sigh... not > > exactly against the bill, but not exactly for it either... > > > > This is probably going to piss off a lot of people, but I'm not (only) > trying to be the devil's advocate here, so I'm going to ask anyway: > > Isn't all this about us wanting something for nothing? I mean isn't > someone spending emotion, time, and money creating, developing and > distributing something that we want it for nothing. And, yeah, I know a > lot of what we're talking about is degrees. I mean when a single mother > is fined thousands of dollars for downloading a few songs for her kid it > seems extreme. Nevertheless, are we not still talking about someone > wanting something for nothing? > > Just because you get away with compact cassette taping LPs in the > seventies, burning CDs of LPs and CDs in the eighties, burning DVDs of > movies in the nineties, and downloading songs via gtkpod to iPod in the > 00s, is one entitled to this forever? Should we not be grateful we > enjoyed the ride for forty years? > > I know I sound like an idiot writing all this. I actually have read > quite a bit of the articles and viewed youtube clips referred to in > emails from tlug over the past few weeks, and even had a sit down with > Charlie Angus. I just find it hard to make up my mind on all this. For > instance, I have recently joined SOCAN and am writing and recording > songs with a view to having them published and picked up by recording > artists. I feel I should at least consider supporting the system that > may (in part) support me some day. > > I'd be interested in your thoughts. Seriously. You're absolutely right, most people are thieves, and we get the crappy ass system WE collectively deserve. (isn't it nice how that works out) The real issue will be when Internet downloading allows for massive theft of HD movies, i.e. 20GB a movie (bluray), and people can do this 10-100 times a month, i.e. bandwidth caps would be needed that we can only now just dream about, but when these 20-50Mb/s feeds i am starting to hear about become more common place, and you can thieve a tonnes of HD movies, its going to be a whole different ball game then it is now. (this will really! hurt the industry). My guess is it will turn back around to what it was in the 80's in the US, where people will get prosecuted for doing this if anymore more then "casually" and it will put the fear into people. But catching people thieving music on Internet, or stereo equipment from wall mart, or robbing money from a bank, its all the same - catch'm and slap them around a whole bunch, the world will be a lot better place. As for money grubbing record companies, and ticket master, etc, you'd hope a really good Internet ecommerce would keep those bastards in check. Do you sound like a idiot? no way!, your just not a thief, and that's a good thing! be proud of it, its a dying breed. -tl > > Chris > > > Colin McGregor > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 11:15:56 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 07:15:56 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: <7ac602420808252028u3bd04a8drc45b6bce835b2cb8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> <7ac602420808252028u3bd04a8drc45b6bce835b2cb8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48B3E5EC.5050307@rogers.com> Ian Petersen wrote: > On the subject of remote permission servers, I think it was Yahoo! > that recently shut its servers down. People who had shown themselves > to be paying customers by buying DRM'ed music and allowing their music > players to check with Yahoo! for permission before each performance of > a "protected" work were suddenly screwed out of their money because > Yahoo! no longer felt like supporting the permission-granting service. > It should not be illegal for those people to find a way to listen to > the music they paid for. (And, I'd argue, they shouldn't _have_ to > "find a way"--they paid for the music, it should be easy to listen > to.) > > Not too long ago, some major league (baseball IIRC) fans found themselves in that position. They'd paid for their DVDs, but found they could no longer watch them, as the content provider switched servers and essentially said "tough luck". I seem to recall Microsoft was also recently involved in such a scam too. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 15:25:46 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:25:46 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> <7ac602420808252028u3bd04a8drc45b6bce835b2cb8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48B4207A.4040503@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I made a few of these points in a letter to the editor of the Globe > and Mail, but when they published it yesterday, most of that was > edited out. > Until the new management at BCE takes over (and probably even after), it and its subsidiaries CTV, Sympatico, and the Globe and Mail should be considered to be major stakeholders in getting this travesty of a law passed. I think that you should send the same letter (along with an explanation of what was edited out and by whom) to the Toronto Star, the National Post, McLeans and any other national media outlets that you think appropriate. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 15:30:05 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: <48B3E5EC.5050307-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> <7ac602420808252028u3bd04a8drc45b6bce835b2cb8@mail.gmail.com> <48B3E5EC.5050307@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | Ian Petersen wrote: | > On the subject of remote permission servers, I think it was Yahoo! | > that recently shut its servers down. People who had shown themselves | > to be paying customers by buying DRM'ed music and allowing their music | > players to check with Yahoo! for permission before each performance of | > a "protected" work were suddenly screwed out of their money because | Not too long ago, some major league (baseball IIRC) fans found themselves in | that position. They'd paid for their DVDs, but found they could no longer | watch them, as the content provider switched servers and essentially said | "tough luck". I seem to recall Microsoft was also recently involved in such a | scam too. I think that it is important to realize that the new law won't just be slapped onto our current behaviour and expectations, it will form our behaviour and expectations. It is hard to think this through, but it is the way with all important changes. Eg: the personal computer didn't just make it more convenient to run payroll and accounting applications of big companies, it made computers available for previously impractical and even unimagined purposes. I buy books and own them as long as I want. Well, not quite. Some books I bought 30 years ago are getting fragile due to the acid in the wood pulp. Books from 150 years ago actually last longer. I have a few, but I didn't buy them, they were passed on to me. Try passing on DRMed stuff. Software I bought 10 years ago is almost all useless. We laughingly call it bit rot. I touched on this in my Linux Symposium talk this year (comparing Red Hat Linux 5.1 of about 10 years ago with CentOS of today). - the environment needed to run old software no longer exists (the OS has moved on, the hardware has moved on (no floppies)). - security updates are not available - updates to match new laws are not available (DST changes, GST changes, ...) Open source is better than closed source, but the problem still exists. We now think that it would be outrageous for a DVD to stop working but we accept not being able to play 78 RPM records (I just gave some away). If the law enables sellers to yank back "content" by DRM, we are soon going to accept this behaviour. Just like we accept software EOL from Microsoft and Red Hat. We quibble with the details but we start to accept overall result. I want us to think ahead to how the new law will affect the future. The key idea is that DRM allows fine-grained control by the vendor. We collectively already thought that control by vendors was too great in some cases: first sale doctrine. You ain't seen nothing yet. What are imaginable affects of this fine-grained control? - many many more business models (many might be good). For example, rental of content (previously possible due to the mechanical embodiment of content (i.e. physical DVD)). - great opporunities for price differentiation. So the price can be tailored to some surrogate of the value to the customer. I hate price differentiation, but there are rational arguments for it. - great opportunities for social control. Think of all the stories about the Chinese governments control over things around the olympics. Now think what would happen if the government (or other large entity) had control of virtually everything through DRM. - virtually every clump of information gets an owner. Forever. And it isn't you -- you just get to use it, at the owners pleasure, in the ways contemplated by the owner. - various monopolies are strengthened. Gee, that sounds good. This is not the way I want the world to head. In the consultation on the copyright whitepaper of perhaps a decade ago, I proposed that a work lose copyright protection if it had DRM that prevented otherwise legal use. In other words, DRM would be supported by copyright law only if it did not extend control. This may now seem radical, but why should copyright law sanction a unilateral power grab by the producer? That this seems radical just shows how much expectations have been shifted in a decade. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 15:35:11 2008 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken O. Burtch) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: <48B35E84.5010705-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: See my Lone Coder blog, "If Free is Illegal, Who is the Pirate?" (http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_august_2007.html) for a detailed look at why getting something for nothing isn't stealing. Ken B. On Mon, 25 Aug 2008, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: >> FYI: >> >> Here is the e-mail I received from my MP re: Bill 61. Sigh... not >> exactly against the bill, but not exactly for it either... >> > > This is probably going to piss off a lot of people, but I'm not (only) trying > to be the devil's advocate here, so I'm going to ask anyway: > > Isn't all this about us wanting something for nothing? I mean isn't someone > spending emotion, time, and money creating, developing and distributing > something that we want it for nothing. And, yeah, I know a lot of what we're > talking about is degrees. I mean when a single mother is fined thousands of > dollars for downloading a few songs for her kid it seems extreme. > Nevertheless, are we not still talking about someone wanting something for > nothing? > > Just because you get away with compact cassette taping LPs in the seventies, > burning CDs of LPs and CDs in the eighties, burning DVDs of movies in the > nineties, and downloading songs via gtkpod to iPod in the 00s, is one > entitled to this forever? Should we not be grateful we enjoyed the ride for > forty years? > > I know I sound like an idiot writing all this. I actually have read quite a > bit of the articles and viewed youtube clips referred to in emails from tlug > over the past few weeks, and even had a sit down with Charlie Angus. I just > find it hard to make up my mind on all this. For instance, I have recently > joined SOCAN and am writing and recording songs with a view to having them > published and picked up by recording artists. I feel I should at least > consider supporting the system that may (in part) support me some day. > > I'd be interested in your thoughts. Seriously. > > Chris > >> Colin McGregor > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 15:55:07 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:55:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: <20080826022013.409f2466.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> <20080826022013.409f2466.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: | From: ted leslie | Mr Chris Aitken wrote: | | > Isn't all this about us wanting something for nothing? I mean isn't | > someone spending emotion, time, and money creating, developing and | > distributing something that we want it for nothing. [Note: I'm not responding directly to what Chris actually said. Chris: this is not meant as an attack on you.] No amount of using the bogus phrase "intellectual property" will convince me that information is the same as a physical thing. I can "steal" information without removing the original. Creators of information should have a variety of incentives to create that information. Ownership is not a good model for that. Bounded monopoly of some kind seems to have worked in the past. Let's, as a society, have a serious discussion of that. Let's not just let the big special interests craft that policy on their own. Too bad that real society-wide decision making has to be based on tiny sound-bites and slogans. That's something really broken in our democracy. | My guess is it will turn back around to what it was in the 80's in the US, where | people will get prosecuted for doing this if anymore more then "casually" | and it will put the fear into people. | But catching people thieving music on Internet, or stereo equipment from wall mart, or robbing money from a bank, | its all the same - catch'm and slap them around a whole bunch, the world will be a lot better place. | As for money grubbing record companies, and ticket master, etc, you'd hope a really good Internet ecommerce | would keep those bastards in check. | | Do you sound like a idiot? no way!, your just not a thief, and that's a good thing! be proud of it, its a dying breed. I think that this is exactly the wrong viewpoint. There are two ways to enforce something: - by compulsion - voluntarily, with consent Of course they are not mutually exclusive and there is a spectrum. We have laws against stealing physical things. We have police. We have social norms. 99% of the time it is the social norm that does the work. (Think of all the gun crime we hear about in Toronto. It doesn't look to me as if the problem can be solved by better policing. The problem appears to lie with the social norms. In other words, police effectiveness is more apparent than real.) If we can get citizens to understand and buy into the model we will need less repression to enforce it. I want to live in a society where the citizens, by in large, consent to the the rules. Thinking of your customers as thieves is really sad. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 16:35:30 2008 From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:35:30 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: Ken, as an author of a book... are you fine with someone making (or do you make?) an electronic copy freely available? Scott On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Ken O. Burtch wrote: > > See my Lone Coder blog, "If Free is Illegal, Who is the Pirate?" > (http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_august_2007.html) for a detailed look at > why getting something for nothing isn't stealing. > > Ken B. > > On Mon, 25 Aug 2008, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > >> Colin McGregor wrote: >>> FYI: >>> >>> Here is the e-mail I received from my MP re: Bill 61. Sigh... not >>> exactly against the bill, but not exactly for it either... >>> >> >> This is probably going to piss off a lot of people, but I'm not (only) >> trying to be the devil's advocate here, so I'm going to ask anyway: >> >> Isn't all this about us wanting something for nothing? I mean isn't someone >> spending emotion, time, and money creating, developing and distributing >> something that we want it for nothing. And, yeah, I know a lot of what >> we're talking about is degrees. I mean when a single mother is fined >> thousands of dollars for downloading a few songs for her kid it seems >> extreme. Nevertheless, are we not still talking about someone wanting >> something for nothing? >> >> Just because you get away with compact cassette taping LPs in the >> seventies, burning CDs of LPs and CDs in the eighties, burning DVDs of >> movies in the nineties, and downloading songs via gtkpod to iPod in the >> 00s, is one entitled to this forever? Should we not be grateful we enjoyed >> the ride for forty years? >> >> I know I sound like an idiot writing all this. I actually have read quite a >> bit of the articles and viewed youtube clips referred to in emails from >> tlug over the past few weeks, and even had a sit down with Charlie Angus. I >> just find it hard to make up my mind on all this. For instance, I have >> recently joined SOCAN and am writing and recording songs with a view to >> having them published and picked up by recording artists. I feel I should >> at least consider supporting the system that may (in part) support me some >> day. >> >> I'd be interested in your thoughts. Seriously. >> >> Chris >> >>> Colin McGregor >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 16:59:16 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:59:16 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: On 8/26/08, Scott C. Ripley wrote: > Ken, > > as an author of a book... > > are you fine with someone making (or do you make?) an electronic copy > freely available? > > Scott While not a book author, I have written a number of articles for publication. In my case generally yes, electronic copies of my articles are freely available for download and I am fine with that. In the case of the items I have done for Linux Journal, the articles appear in the print edition of the magazine, and is then made available on-line to registered subscribers of the magazine. One month after the article appears in print the electronic version is made available to all for free. Between the subscription fees and advertising carried in the magazine/website there are some $$ to pay me, and the editor / staff at the magazine. There are people who like to be able to read the print off paper and are willing to pay a few $ for that option. Everyone is more-or-less happy. So, a limited time exclusive right for the authors/publishers is great, and that is what was provided for in the old copyright laws. What we have here with the proposed copyright law is changing a time limited right to a perpetual law, which in my view is wrong on several levels... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 17:07:12 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:07:12 -0400 Subject: PCI Serial Card - Debian In-Reply-To: <200808251606.04768.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200808251606.04768.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20080826170712.GI12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 04:06:04PM -0400, Merv Curley wrote: > I have been using a card with 2 ports for several years and a couple of days > ago I moved it to a new computer I just assembled. Sidux 2008 is the distro > but it is basically Debian Sid with some Sidux utils. Well so far the three > pieces of hardware I have tried don't work, they do with the onboard ttyS0. > > Setserial - a /dev/ttyS1 indicates a 16550 Uart and assigned IRQ of 20. Same > for ttyS2. No UART in ttyS3. > > What else can I check to see if these should work? Never had a problem before > with any distro and don't feel like installing SuSE 11/Mandriva etc just to > see if they initialize the ports. > > Thoughts? and thanks... You may have to pass a command line argument to increase the number of serial ports it looks for. Or maybe you just need to load the driver module for the card if it isn't loading automatically. What does lspci and lspci -n show? Does minicom work with the serial ports? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 17:14:32 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:14:32 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: <48B35E84.5010705-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080826171432.GJ12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 09:38:12PM -0400, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > This is probably going to piss off a lot of people, but I'm not (only) > trying to be the devil's advocate here, so I'm going to ask anyway: > > Isn't all this about us wanting something for nothing? I mean isn't > someone spending emotion, time, and money creating, developing and > distributing something that we want it for nothing. And, yeah, I know a > lot of what we're talking about is degrees. I mean when a single mother > is fined thousands of dollars for downloading a few songs for her kid it > seems extreme. Nevertheless, are we not still talking about someone > wanting something for nothing? No it is NOT about wanting something for nothing. It is about being fair. If I buy a CD, itunes song, or whichever, then I have paid for a copy and should have the right to use it for personal use. But the big media wants to control all use as well and wants me to have to pay seperately for a copy for my ipod, my cd player and anything else I have. Paying once isn't enough. They would love if they could make you pay everytime you listened to the song, but they haven't quite got that rammed through anywhere yet. Same with movies. If I buy a DVD or a movie download from itunes or such, why should I not be allowed to put that movie on an ipod from the DVD to watch it? Why shouldn't I be allowed to watch the DVD on my computer running linux (which of course isn't a licensed DVD playing device). I paid for it, I just want to use it by myself. I don't want to make copies for friends or charge admission for people to watch it on a big screen. > Just because you get away with compact cassette taping LPs in the > seventies, burning CDs of LPs and CDs in the eighties, burning DVDs of > movies in the nineties, and downloading songs via gtkpod to iPod in the > 00s, is one entitled to this forever? Should we not be grateful we > enjoyed the ride for forty years? No, it should be perfectly legitimate to move around what you have so you can actually use it. If I want to watch a movie on a device for which no native version is sold, why shouldn't I be able to buy another version and put it on there for use? > I know I sound like an idiot writing all this. I actually have read > quite a bit of the articles and viewed youtube clips referred to in > emails from tlug over the past few weeks, and even had a sit down with > Charlie Angus. I just find it hard to make up my mind on all this. For > instance, I have recently joined SOCAN and am writing and recording > songs with a view to having them published and picked up by recording > artists. I feel I should at least consider supporting the system that > may (in part) support me some day. I do want to pay for things and I do. But when I pay for it I want to be able to use it on the system of my choice in way I want to enjoy it. If I like playing my music all random from flac files on my mythtv box rather than having to buy 200 CD players to put all my CDs in, why the hell should the big media give a damn? I am not extracting the CDs to share on the internet, nor would I extract movies for sharing, I just want to make them convinient for me to use. By being convinient to use, I enjoy it more, and I buy more. If you make it hard to use the way I want, then I won't buy it and may in fact go download it from someone that has worked around any DRM stupidity, just so I can use it in the way I want to. > I'd be interested in your thoughts. Seriously. That is the real issue. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 17:36:24 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:36:24 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> <7ac602420808252028u3bd04a8drc45b6bce835b2cb8@mail.gmail.com> <48B3E5EC.5050307@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080826173624.GK12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 11:30:05AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > We now think that it would be outrageous for a DVD to stop working but > we accept not being able to play 78 RPM records (I just gave some > away). There are plenty of devices you can buy today that supports playing 78rpm records. So you are completely wrong there. 8track on the other hand could be a problem. > If the law enables sellers to yank back "content" by DRM, we are soon > going to accept this behaviour. Just like we accept software EOL from > Microsoft and Red Hat. We quibble with the details but we start to > accept overall result. Anything that requires remote access to work is not acceptable since some users may be in places where that simply can't be done. Why should the thing they paid for not work in such places? Books on paper seem to work everywhere and this hasn't put publishers out of business yet. Indigo/chapters may have put some of them out of business, but the book format hasn't. Libraries haven't either. > I want us to think ahead to how the new law will affect the future. How about their affect on the present? > The key idea is that DRM allows fine-grained control by the vendor. > We collectively already thought that control by vendors was too great > in some cases: first sale doctrine. You ain't seen nothing yet. > > What are imaginable affects of this fine-grained control? > > - many many more business models (many might be good). For example, > rental of content (previously possible due to the mechanical > embodiment of content (i.e. physical DVD)). Oh they would love rentals and libraries to be banned. People should have to bay for every use after all. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 19:01:07 2008 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken O. Burtch) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:01:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: I don't think I can write a convincing reply, but you asked how I felt about the impact of electronic copies of my book. Colin could probably argue it better. I once slid my car into a ditch and walked down the road for help. The farmer said he'd pull me out if I paid him $20. When I didn't have that much money, he took down my drivers license and threatened to take me to court if he helped me and I didn't pay him. I don't want to live in a world like that, where people are vicitmized in the name of turning a profit. As I wrote in the article, there is a difference between making something freely available and being paid for your effort. My book IS freely available, legally or not, on file sharing servers. I'm earning acceptable royalties from book sales. Why would I want to charge somebody 15 cents every time they quoted an example from my book, or giving examples about what a great book it was to their friends? That's part of what this bill is about. It's not just about electronic copies. We're already paying money to music companies when we burn our Linux DVD's and that makes me ashamed of being Canadian. And does anyone remember the DVD decryption fiasco fueled by corporate greed and the DMCA? In the IT industry today, people are often overworked and underpaid and underappreciated. Everyone wants to make more money, get more respect. But it seems to me that earning a living and charging for electronic copies are two entirely different issues. Do I want to earn money to pay for my food and rent during the time I wrote my book? Sure. Do I think the best revenue stream is to launch an attack on the changing nature of technology and create laws that pimarily target the poor? Not really. I'm far more concerned at the low royalty rates paid to authors: an author writes the book, but the vast majority of the money goes to the big corporate publisher. I also elude to this in the article. I don't see free electronic copying as an attempt to exploit creative people. The bill is not an attempt to help people to earn a living. It's a money grab by the rich targetting the poor that will leave Canada in the electronic dark ages, a legal morass. In my opinion, the bill will actually cost authors like me money. I'm not sure that was explained well. Like I said, read the article. Ken B. On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Scott C. Ripley wrote: > > Ken, > > as an author of a book... > > are you fine with someone making (or do you make?) an electronic copy freely > available? > > Scott > > > On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Ken O. Burtch wrote: > >> >> See my Lone Coder blog, "If Free is Illegal, Who is the Pirate?" >> (http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_august_2007.html) for a detailed look >> at why getting something for nothing isn't stealing. >> >> Ken B. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 20:06:44 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:06:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: <20080826173624.GK12475-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> <7ac602420808252028u3bd04a8drc45b6bce835b2cb8@mail.gmail.com> <48B3E5EC.5050307@rogers.com> <20080826173624.GK12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | There are plenty of devices you can buy today that supports playing | 78rpm records. So you are completely wrong there. They are not widely or cheaply available. 78s are very different from 33s and 45s. In particular, the stylus for a 78 is quite different. | Anything that requires remote access to work is not acceptable since | some users may be in places where that simply can't be done. "Not acceptable" to you (or me). But it might be/become acceptable to a sufficiently vast population of paying customers to make it work as a business model. | Why should | the thing they paid for not work in such places? Just what did they pay for? That is actually a key question, not a silly one. A tricky question too. | Books on paper seem to | work everywhere and this hasn't put publishers out of business yet. Books are a very interesting example. Especially compared to recorded music. The current copyright law treats them quite differently. As a computer programmer, I don't like that (simplicity is a prime virtue). | Indigo/chapters may have put some of them out of business, but the book | format hasn't. Libraries haven't either. Book stores and libraries are like caches. Under a reasonable future regime neither are guaranteed to exist. Analogy: fetch a book; if in library, don't pay for fetching from publisher -- so the cost of the fetch is lower. If the fetch from the publisher works well, no need for the cache. Disintermediation! (Reintermediation? iTunes?) Libraries might add value and hence might continue to exist. The librarian functions of ordering, selecting, searching might be worth money while the stacks might disappear. | > I want us to think ahead to how the new law will affect the future. | | How about their affect on the present? Everyone is paying attention (a bit) to that. In the long run, the future matters more :-) and takes a little more imaginative thinking. | > The key idea is that DRM allows fine-grained control by the vendor. | > We collectively already thought that control by vendors was too great | > in some cases: first sale doctrine. You ain't seen nothing yet. | Oh they would love rentals and libraries to be banned. People should | have to bay for every use after all. :) My recollection is that libraries were kind of banned and became legal through the "first sale doctrine" in the US, but I don't really understand. I've glanced at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine and found it interesting. Read "Microsoft v. Zamos" section for an off-topic amusement. DRM certainly can prevent free lending libraries. But it can be used to create reasonable for-pay models. I like free lending libraries but that isn't a fundamental right -- everything is on the table, even if this isn't recognized by the public (or the party in power). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 20:13:44 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:13:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: | From: Ken O. Burtch | I once slid my car into a ditch and walked down the road for help. The farmer | said he'd pull me out if I paid him $20. When I didn't have that much money, | he took down my drivers license and threatened to take me to court if he | helped me and I didn't pay him. I don't want to live in a world like that, | where people are vicitmized in the name of turning a profit. I lived on a farm when I was a kid. Someone slid off the road and asked for help. I loaned him a length of rope which was my current prized possession. He drove off without returning it. (A kid with a length of rope as a prize possession? Rope is a lot of fun. I took it to school and during recess we organized a spontaneous tug-of-war. So much fun that the teachers banned it from school.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 20:15:03 2008 From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:15:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: > I'm not sure that was explained well. Like I said, read the article. i wouldn't have commented if i hadn't read your article... > Not really. I'm far more concerned at the low royalty rates paid to > authors: an author writes the book, but the vast majority of the money > goes to the big corporate publisher. I also elude to this in the article. big companies do make a lot of money off of creative people (musicians, authors, etc.) by means of record contracts, publishing contracts, etc. i do imagine that for most creative people, the contracts favour the big companies, and it's only the truly big stars who can negotiate more favourable arrangements... however, imagine a world where: - there are no more traditional book publishers or record companies: - authors/musicians/film-makers/etc. are able to publish/distribute their own music/books/films leveraging the internet - marketing of their books/music/films is accomplished via the internet: - social networks, youtube, internet radio, and other not yet-created mechanisms it seems reasonable to me that these authors/musicians/film-makers/etc. should have the right to "control" (define control: take action against people who don't have the right to distribute) their work... so if i write a book and i'm making it available for purchase at a reasonable price in a e-book format on my web site (no DRM) and some person decides to make a copy of it available for free - thus robbing me of the way that i'm feeding my family - i hope i would be able to take some sort of legal action to restore my revenue stream. (and to be clear, i think: - DRM sucks - purchased music/video/e-books, etc. should be transferable from device to device for personal use by the individual who bought them - like any legislation, there are aspects of Bill C-60 that i'm fine with and other aspects that i take issue with - the suggestions for improving C-60 on: http://www.digital-copyright.ca/billc60/Consumer_Fact_Sheet.shtml seem reasonable to me) Scott On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Ken O. Burtch wrote: > > I don't think I can write a convincing reply, but you asked how I felt about > the impact of electronic copies of my book. Colin could probably argue it > better. > > I once slid my car into a ditch and walked down the road for help. The > farmer said he'd pull me out if I paid him $20. When I didn't have that much > money, he took down my drivers license and threatened to take me to court if > he helped me and I didn't pay him. I don't want to live in a world like > that, where people are vicitmized in the name of turning a profit. > > As I wrote in the article, there is a difference between making something > freely available and being paid for your effort. My book IS freely > available, legally or not, on file sharing servers. I'm earning acceptable > royalties from book sales. Why would I want to charge somebody 15 cents > every time they quoted an example from my book, or giving examples about what > a great book it was to their friends? That's part of what this bill is > about. It's not just about electronic copies. We're already paying money to > music companies when we burn our Linux DVD's and that makes me ashamed of > being Canadian. And does anyone remember the DVD decryption fiasco fueled by > corporate greed and the DMCA? > > In the IT industry today, people are often overworked and underpaid and > underappreciated. Everyone wants to make more money, get more respect. But > it seems to me that earning a living and charging for electronic copies are > two entirely different issues. Do I want to earn money to pay for my food > and rent during the time I wrote my book? Sure. Do I think the best revenue > stream is to launch an attack on the changing nature of technology and create > laws that pimarily target the poor? Not really. I'm far more concerned at > the low royalty rates paid to authors: an author writes the book, but the > vast majority of the money goes to the big corporate publisher. I also elude > to this in the article. > > I don't see free electronic copying as an attempt to exploit creative people. > The bill is not an attempt to help people to earn a living. It's a money > grab by the rich targetting the poor that will leave Canada in the electronic > dark ages, a legal morass. In my opinion, the bill will actually cost > authors like me money. > > I'm not sure that was explained well. Like I said, read the article. > > Ken B. > > On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Scott C. Ripley wrote: > >> >> Ken, >> >> as an author of a book... >> >> are you fine with someone making (or do you make?) an electronic copy >> freely available? >> >> Scott >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Ken O. Burtch wrote: >> >>> >>> See my Lone Coder blog, "If Free is Illegal, Who is the Pirate?" >>> (http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_august_2007.html) for a detailed look >>> at why getting something for nothing isn't stealing. >>> >>> Ken B. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 20:42:51 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:42:51 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> <7ac602420808252028u3bd04a8drc45b6bce835b2cb8@mail.gmail.com> <48B3E5EC.5050307@rogers.com> <20080826173624.GK12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080826204251.GL12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 04:06:44PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > They are not widely or cheaply available. 78s are very different from > 33s and 45s. In particular, the stylus for a 78 is quite different. But they are available. Your inability to play it comes from not having maintained a working player. Not due to someone else deciding they no longer want you to be able to play them. It is an open fully understood format. I think there are even people who have managed to use scanners to read vinyl and analyze them to generate the sound signal. So there is nothing there preventing you from playing them other than not being willing to put whatever effort or cost is required into getting a method to play them. No one else is actively trying to prevent you from doing so. > "Not acceptable" to you (or me). But it might be/become acceptable to a > sufficiently vast population of paying customers to make it work as a > business model. Until enough DRM servers have been shut down that they stop buying it. Quite a few already have. Apparently none of them do enough business to be viable to continue to operate. > Just what did they pay for? That is actually a key question, not a > silly one. A tricky question too. Well if I buy a book, I get a book I can read wherever I want. If I buy a CD, I get a disc I can play wherever I want. If I buy a movie I expect to have a movie I can play wherever I want as long as I have a player that supports it. I do not expect that player to need an internet connection to verify that this particular player happens to be authorized to play this particular copy at this particular time. > Books are a very interesting example. Especially compared to recorded > music. The current copyright law treats them quite differently. As a > computer programmer, I don't like that (simplicity is a prime virtue). They ought to be treated the same. > Book stores and libraries are like caches. Under a reasonable future > regime neither are guaranteed to exist. Analogy: fetch a book; if in > library, don't pay for fetching from publisher -- so the cost of the > fetch is lower. If the fetch from the publisher works well, no need > for the cache. Disintermediation! (Reintermediation? iTunes?) For electronic books, I agree a library doesn't work very well. I somewhat doubt aper books are going anywhere though. I think that anyone that thinks physical books will go away anytime soon (if ever) is completely out of touch with reality. > Libraries might add value and hence might continue to exist. The > librarian functions of ordering, selecting, searching might be worth > money while the stacks might disappear. > > Everyone is paying attention (a bit) to that. In the long run, the > future matters more :-) and takes a little more imaginative thinking. Tomorrow is the future, so the present counts just as much. Trying to make laws that only consider the present technology is of course not a good idea. > My recollection is that libraries were kind of banned and became legal > through the "first sale doctrine" in the US, but I don't really > understand. I've glanced at > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine > and found it interesting. Read "Microsoft v. Zamos" section for an > off-topic amusement. It makes sense to have first sale though, since after all if you buy a painting from someone and it is the only one that exists, why shouldn't you be able to sell that painting to someone else? There is still only one. Now the painter may decide to make prints of their painting and sell those, but only the painter has that right. You can do what you want with your copy though, as long as you don't make additional copies for distribution to others. The same ought to apply to books and music and the like. > DRM certainly can prevent free lending libraries. But it can be used > to create reasonable for-pay models. I like free lending libraries > but that isn't a fundamental right -- everything is on the table, even > if this isn't recognized by the public (or the party in power). DRM can't be used to do anything because it is fundamentally broken. No DRM can be implemented without secrecy because it relies un obscoruity to control access along with "trusted software" to manage the final presentation to the user. So no open source software allowed anywhere near the DRM stuff, and if anyone decides to break the DRM and suceeds (as they always have and always will), then the DRM is gone. DRM simply is not a solution for any problem. It only harms legitimate users and is at most a slight inconvinience to those who choose to ignore the DRM. making laws to make bypassing DRM is no solution either since those that choose to ignore the rules don't care about laws either. Again anti circumvention laws only harm legitimate users. Anything that suggests the use of DRM should be immediately dismissed and ignored for being completely flawed. The way to generate pay for models is to offer people stuff to buy. People will pay for it more often than not. Those who don't pay are usaully those that wouldn't have paid for it anyhow if that was the only way for them to get it. Those groups that have offered stuff up on the internet without DRM and simply asked for people to pay for it have actually managed quite well from what I can see. And if people grab it without paying, they may decide they really like what they got and then go pay for it. Of course the greedy corporations can't understand that people might like to sample stuff before they buy. Nor can they understand that if you treat people like criminals they have a tendancy to start acting like criminals out of spite. After all if you are trated like a criminal when you are not, you might as well get some benefit from it and at least deserve the treatment. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 21:33:45 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:33:45 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: <20080826022013.409f2466.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> <20080826022013.409f2466.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <48B476B9.6030008@dinamis.com> ted leslie wrote: > On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:38:12 -0400 > Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > >> Colin McGregor wrote: >>> FYI: >>> >>> Here is the e-mail I received from my MP re: Bill 61. Sigh... not >>> exactly against the bill, but not exactly for it either... >>> >> This is probably going to piss off a lot of people, but I'm not (only) >> trying to be the devil's advocate here, so I'm going to ask anyway: >> >> Isn't all this about us wanting something for nothing? I mean isn't >> someone spending emotion, time, and money creating, developing and >> distributing something that we want it for nothing. And, yeah, I know a >> lot of what we're talking about is degrees. I mean when a single mother >> is fined thousands of dollars for downloading a few songs for her kid it >> seems extreme. Nevertheless, are we not still talking about someone >> wanting something for nothing? >> >> Just because you get away with compact cassette taping LPs in the >> seventies, burning CDs of LPs and CDs in the eighties, burning DVDs of >> movies in the nineties, and downloading songs via gtkpod to iPod in the >> 00s, is one entitled to this forever? Should we not be grateful we >> enjoyed the ride for forty years? >> >> I know I sound like an idiot writing all this. I actually have read >> quite a bit of the articles and viewed youtube clips referred to in >> emails from tlug over the past few weeks, and even had a sit down with >> Charlie Angus. I just find it hard to make up my mind on all this. For >> instance, I have recently joined SOCAN and am writing and recording >> songs with a view to having them published and picked up by recording >> artists. I feel I should at least consider supporting the system that >> may (in part) support me some day. >> >> I'd be interested in your thoughts. Seriously. > > You're absolutely right, most people are thieves, and we get the crappy ass system WE collectively deserve. > (isn't it nice how that works out) > > The real issue will be when Internet downloading allows for massive theft of HD movies, > i.e. 20GB a movie (bluray), and people can do this 10-100 times a month, > i.e. bandwidth caps would be needed that we can only now just dream about, > but when these 20-50Mb/s feeds i am starting to hear about become more common place, > and you can thieve a tonnes of HD movies, its going to be a whole different ball game then it is now. > (this will really! hurt the industry). > My guess is it will turn back around to what it was in the 80's in the US, where > people will get prosecuted for doing this if anymore more then "casually" > and it will put the fear into people. > But catching people thieving music on Internet, or stereo equipment from wall mart, or robbing money from a bank, > its all the same - catch'm and slap them around a whole bunch, the world will be a lot better place. > As for money grubbing record companies, and ticket master, etc, you'd hope a really good Internet ecommerce > would keep those bastards in check. > > Do you sound like a idiot? no way!, your just not a thief, and that's a good thing! be proud of it, its a dying breed. Ted, your message is so full of wrong assumptions that I almost expected you to ask those who are against this bill, "When did you stop beating your wife?" Who was it that said something like, "Men of conscience are so not because of restraint of law but because they have morals."? Most people are NOT thieves. Most people are honest and know the difference between right and wrong. The minority of people who are thieves will remain so regardless of how many idiotic laws are passed. I don't even agree that the actions you enumerated are necessarily theft. The devil is in the details. People may actually start doing the things you listed above as a form of civil disobedience or simply because it would be more convenient to format shift by downloading via BitTorrent than swim through shark-infested DRM waters just to transfer a legitimately-purchased DVD to an iPod. Enforcing this law will have the effect of eroding respect for laws and that cannot be a good thing. There is no effective means of enforcing this law without further advancing the agenda of the proponents of the surveillance society. The only two parties capable of forming a majority government are both in favour of it, though the Liberals now blather on about "consultation" when they themselves were poised to pass something equally stinky when they were in power. This bill, or some variant thereof will eventually pass, if not this time, next time, regardless of which party is in power. The proponents of the bill are well-funded and know that the message can be manipulated and reframed very easily. It's a slam dunk for any halfway capable PR firm to isolate the opponents of this bill as cranks and pariahs. Their success in doing this with Canadian gun owners, the vast majority of whom are law-abiding citizens, serves as the template. We'll be promised a Utopian future with wondrous technological advancements if only our "antiquated" laws are "modernized" to accommodate the "digital age". Industry lobbies and the government have virtually unlimited amounts of money to spend on propaganda. The issue being quite complex and voters having a notoriously short attention span makes it all but certain that the average voter will fall in line. Politicians, most of whom are technologically illiterate opportunists, will fall in line after they've established that voting for the bill carries little political risk and potentially, great upside as they're wooed by lobby groups. After all, they have to think about what they'll do for a living after they leave office. Welcome to the best government money can buy! I'm waiting for the plaintive pleas of, "Do it for the children!" to start soon. Our elected representatives do not seem to be considering the law of unintended consequences. Governments have a tendency to create distortions in the market that are often not good. No one has any idea about what innovations or what new business models will never see the light of day if C-61 is passed. The bill seems an attempt to prop up the failed business models of the music and movie industries, and their distributors like Rogers and Bell. Witness how successfully Rogers and Bell have managed to portray traffic shaping as necessary to prevent the collapse of the Internet by those "bandwidth hogs" who are downloading "illegal" content. I'm surprised they haven't yet portrayed people who use BitTorrent as pedophiles. That will come later I suppose if they get desperate. To borrow from Martin Niemoller's famous quote: First they came for gun owners but I was not a gun owner so I did not speak out. Then they came for pit bulls but I was not a pit bull owner so I did not speak out (never mind that no one can actually define what a pit bull is). When they came after my right to make private copies of my music and movies, and rendered some of my recording and playback devices illegal, there was no one left to speak out for me. Ladies and gentlemen, all hail our new overlords from the MPAA, RIAA, CRIA, and other anti-freedom organizations. -- Regards, Clifford -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 22:26:09 2008 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:26:09 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: <48B476B9.6030008-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> <20080826022013.409f2466.tleslie@tcn.net> <48B476B9.6030008@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20080826182609.6db26104.tleslie@tcn.net> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:33:45 -0400 CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > ted leslie wrote: > > On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:38:12 -0400 > > Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > > > >> Colin McGregor wrote: > >>> FYI: > >>> > >>> Here is the e-mail I received from my MP re: Bill 61. Sigh... not > >>> exactly against the bill, but not exactly for it either... > >>> > >> This is probably going to piss off a lot of people, but I'm not (only) > >> trying to be the devil's advocate here, so I'm going to ask anyway: > >> > >> Isn't all this about us wanting something for nothing? I mean isn't > >> someone spending emotion, time, and money creating, developing and > >> distributing something that we want it for nothing. And, yeah, I know a > >> lot of what we're talking about is degrees. I mean when a single mother > >> is fined thousands of dollars for downloading a few songs for her kid it > >> seems extreme. Nevertheless, are we not still talking about someone > >> wanting something for nothing? > >> > >> Just because you get away with compact cassette taping LPs in the > >> seventies, burning CDs of LPs and CDs in the eighties, burning DVDs of > >> movies in the nineties, and downloading songs via gtkpod to iPod in the > >> 00s, is one entitled to this forever? Should we not be grateful we > >> enjoyed the ride for forty years? > >> > >> I know I sound like an idiot writing all this. I actually have read > >> quite a bit of the articles and viewed youtube clips referred to in > >> emails from tlug over the past few weeks, and even had a sit down with > >> Charlie Angus. I just find it hard to make up my mind on all this. For > >> instance, I have recently joined SOCAN and am writing and recording > >> songs with a view to having them published and picked up by recording > >> artists. I feel I should at least consider supporting the system that > >> may (in part) support me some day. > >> > >> I'd be interested in your thoughts. Seriously. > > > > You're absolutely right, most people are thieves, and we get the crappy ass system WE collectively deserve. > > (isn't it nice how that works out) > > > > The real issue will be when Internet downloading allows for massive theft of HD movies, > > i.e. 20GB a movie (bluray), and people can do this 10-100 times a month, > > i.e. bandwidth caps would be needed that we can only now just dream about, > > but when these 20-50Mb/s feeds i am starting to hear about become more common place, > > and you can thieve a tonnes of HD movies, its going to be a whole different ball game then it is now. > > (this will really! hurt the industry). > > My guess is it will turn back around to what it was in the 80's in the US, where > > people will get prosecuted for doing this if anymore more then "casually" > > and it will put the fear into people. > > But catching people thieving music on Internet, or stereo equipment from wall mart, or robbing money from a bank, > > its all the same - catch'm and slap them around a whole bunch, the world will be a lot better place. > > As for money grubbing record companies, and ticket master, etc, you'd hope a really good Internet ecommerce > > would keep those bastards in check. > > > > Do you sound like a idiot? no way!, your just not a thief, and that's a good thing! be proud of it, its a dying breed. > > Ted, your message is so full of wrong assumptions that I almost expected > you to ask those who are against this bill, "When did you stop beating > your wife?" Who was it that said something like, "Men of conscience are > so not because of restraint of law but because they have morals."? Most > people are NOT thieves. I guess there is a fine line between breach of contract and illegal possession, but some times they are close. If you rent something or granted license to use it in a certain way, and that expires and you don't give it back, then in some cases you stole it. Maybe i should re-word what i said as breach on contract, and the penalty of such breach can at times be worse then theft of an object. I as a producer of something that can be copied, should be able to put any right on its use i want, and if you don't like it, don't buy it. Most musicians just don't want the stuff copied and given away whily-nilly. If a DRM scheme could allow copying amongst your own devices, no one is going to argue against that, but usually by allowing that, it extends it to be easy to copy it to other people who havn't paid for it. You have every right to extend to someone a copy of a song you wrote, or your DNA sequence, both are yours, and can be copied, but you probably want a say about how they are copied, who can have them, and how they are used. There is no difference between your DNA sequence and notes on a page, both personal to you and both deserving of any constraints, limitations to use of copy that you want to put on it, else you will not allow copy. So its just about honouring a contract. So just keep in mind, when you talk about copying things, laws around it, DRM, etc, sub in the words "your personal DNA sequence" for the word "song", and see how it sounds, because one day, it will be like that, and you might then care about how the stuff is handled, and what happens to people that don't handle it with respect to how you (the producer of the song or DNA) want it handled. Of course one day people will just take some hair they found of yours, throw it into a DNA-sequencer-2000 from The-Source, then publish your sequence out on the Internet for everyone to see, and see what kind of genetic background you have, and what ailments, or predispositions you may have. you would probably want some laws against people doing this? And its not for anyone to say that DNA sequences be treated any differently then a song, both are entitled to the same freedoms or restrictions of use as deemed by the producer. I think of breach of contract, and if by doing so, one gets benefit they shouldn't have got, as stealing, but i guess technically that's debatable, and depends on circumstance. Stealing or breach on contract, whatever, its a crime, and people shouldn't do it. as for your thoughts on govn't below, i agree, but as to who and what rights people have to copy my DNA or my songs, i guess we disagree. I do believe most people are thieves, history and events show it, natural disasters like Louisiana - the wide scale looting, the stats on the % of Canadian who have swiss bank accounts, or cheat on tax returns, as it was said in the Planet Of the Apes,- Don't go searching for this answer, as you will NOT like what you find. -tl > Most people are honest and know the difference > between right and wrong. The minority of people who are thieves will > remain so regardless of how many idiotic laws are passed. I don't even > agree that the actions you enumerated are necessarily theft. The devil > is in the details. People may actually start doing the things you listed > above as a form of civil disobedience or simply because it would be more > convenient to format shift by downloading via BitTorrent than swim > through shark-infested DRM waters just to transfer a > legitimately-purchased DVD to an iPod. > > Enforcing this law will have the effect of eroding respect for laws and > that cannot be a good thing. There is no effective means of enforcing > this law without further advancing the agenda of the proponents of the > surveillance society. > > The only two parties capable of forming a majority government are both > in favour of it, though the Liberals now blather on about "consultation" > when they themselves were poised to pass something equally stinky when > they were in power. > > This bill, or some variant thereof will eventually pass, if not this > time, next time, regardless of which party is in power. The proponents > of the bill are well-funded and know that the message can be manipulated > and reframed very easily. It's a slam dunk for any halfway capable PR > firm to isolate the opponents of this bill as cranks and pariahs. Their > success in doing this with Canadian gun owners, the vast majority of > whom are law-abiding citizens, serves as the template. We'll be promised > a Utopian future with wondrous technological advancements if only our > "antiquated" laws are "modernized" to accommodate the "digital age". > Industry lobbies and the government have virtually unlimited amounts of > money to spend on propaganda. The issue being quite complex and voters > having a notoriously short attention span makes it all but certain that > the average voter will fall in line. Politicians, most of whom are > technologically illiterate opportunists, will fall in line after they've > established that voting for the bill carries little political risk and > potentially, great upside as they're wooed by lobby groups. After all, > they have to think about what they'll do for a living after they leave > office. Welcome to the best government money can buy! I'm waiting for > the plaintive pleas of, "Do it for the children!" to start soon. > > Our elected representatives do not seem to be considering the law of > unintended consequences. Governments have a tendency to create > distortions in the market that are often not good. No one has any idea > about what innovations or what new business models will never see the > light of day if C-61 is passed. The bill seems an attempt to prop up the > failed business models of the music and movie industries, and their > distributors like Rogers and Bell. Witness how successfully Rogers and > Bell have managed to portray traffic shaping as necessary to prevent the > collapse of the Internet by those "bandwidth hogs" who are downloading > "illegal" content. I'm surprised they haven't yet portrayed people who > use BitTorrent as pedophiles. That will come later I suppose if they get > desperate. > > To borrow from Martin Niemoller's famous quote: > > First they came for gun owners but I was not a gun owner so I did not > speak out. > > Then they came for pit bulls but I was not a pit bull owner so I did not > speak out (never mind that no one can actually define what a pit bull is). > > When they came after my right to make private copies of my music and > movies, and rendered some of my recording and playback devices illegal, > there was no one left to speak out for me. > > Ladies and gentlemen, all hail our new overlords from the MPAA, RIAA, > CRIA, and other anti-freedom organizations. > -- > Regards, > > Clifford > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 00:39:17 2008 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:39:17 -0400 Subject: how to tell which process is accessing my disk? Message-ID: <1219797557.6958.10.camel@localhost> hi folks, i have a vague feeling i've sent this query out before, but i can't find a record of it. is there a tool that lets me see what process is accessing the disk? i just had a half-hour period where i couldn't use my computer at ll because trackerd was monopolizing the disk. i'd like to be able to fire up a command-line tool that will tell me what's going on in such cases. thanks as always, matt -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 01:55:00 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:55:00 -0400 Subject: how to tell which process is accessing my disk? In-Reply-To: <1219797557.6958.10.camel@localhost> References: <1219797557.6958.10.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20080827015500.GA22677@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 08:39:17PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: >i have a vague feeling i've sent this query out before, but i can't find >a record of it. is there a tool that lets me see what process is >accessing the disk? i just had a half-hour period where i couldn't use >my computer at ll because trackerd was monopolizing the disk. i'd like >to be able to fire up a command-line tool that will tell me what's going >on in such cases. I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for, but lsof (list open files) might tell you something. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 01:59:56 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:59:56 -0400 Subject: Some Thoughts on Copyright Message-ID: <48B4B51C.30302@rogers.com> The copyright debate has been interesting, but clearly polarized. Most here are on the ?fair use? side. But what, really, is fair use? On a mailing list I subscribe to, someone posted a link to a video on You tube. The video was made by someone who took slices of Star Trek video and put them in a sequence that went well with a Jefferson Airplane song, White Rabbit. I posted that this was a violation of copyright, but the OP claimed it was ?fair use? and posted a link to a definition of fair use. I called them on it, quoting from the site they linked to. Fair use is limited to using small portions of a copyrighted work, for the purpose of a review and other specific uses. When I was in university, 35 years ago, we were given a photocopy of a book. And not a text book. Is that considered ?fair use?? Many people have the opinion that if they buy something, they have the right to use what they buy in any way that they please. Now, I am a serious photographer. I hope to someday sell my photographs. Would a buyer of one of my photographs have the ?right? to scan the photograph into digital form, and do some digital manipulation to it, then post it to a web site? I have sold the photograph. I have retained copyright. Does the buyer have the ?right? to make a ?backup? copy of the photograph? Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 05:27:16 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 01:27:16 -0400 Subject: Some Thoughts on Copyright In-Reply-To: <48B4B51C.30302-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48B4B51C.30302@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080827012716.617a7a47@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Stephen wrote: > The copyright debate has been interesting, but clearly polarized. Most > here are on the ?fair use? side. Haven't noticed much polarization myself...biggest disagreement I've seen so far was regarding the playability of 78 RPM discs :-D > But what, really, is fair use? > > On a mailing list I subscribe to, someone posted a link to a video on > You tube. The video was made by someone who took slices of Star Trek > video and put them in a sequence that went well with a Jefferson > Airplane song, White Rabbit. > > I posted that this was a violation of copyright, but the OP claimed it > was ?fair use? and posted a link to a definition of fair use. > > I called them on it, quoting from the site they linked to. Fair use is > limited to using small portions of a copyrighted work, for the purpose > of a review and other specific uses. This has nothing to do with what fair use advocates on here have been discussing. It may or may not fall under the fair use provisions to do with satirical works, but that's for a lawyer or judge to decide. > When I was in university, 35 years ago, we were given a photocopy of a > book. And not a text book. > > Is that considered ?fair use?? Nnnnnnnnno. And I don't think anyone on here would say it was. That sounds like a pretty clear violation, unless special permission was given. Making a copy of a DVD I own to play on my iPod is a lot different than making a copy of a textbook to pass out to 30 other people. > Many people have the opinion that if they buy something, they have the > right to use what they buy in any way that they please. That's not what fair use advocates are saying at all. Fair use means fair use, ie. within reasonable boundaries. No one on here, or anywhere that I have seen, has ever argued that fair use means 'any way that they please'. I think that the examples that people have written about on here are pretty clear cut. If I own a song or CD, I think it is _ridiculous_ for someone to argue that I should have to pay for three copies of said song so I can play it in my car, on my iPod, and in my CD player. It's just really stupid. > Now, I am a serious photographer. I hope to someday sell my photographs. > Would a buyer of one of my photographs have the ?right? to scan the > photograph into digital form, and do some digital manipulation to it, > then post it to a web site? > > I have sold the photograph. I have retained copyright. > > Does the buyer have the ?right? to make a ?backup? copy of the photograph? Of course. Why would you want to stop him/her? They want to look at your photo, that's it. What's the damage, you want them to pay for each time they put the photo in a different device...or frame? ;) I had a thought today, and perhaps it's a bit too much hyperbole, but it goes something like this: Artists should be more concerned with how many people _enjoy_ their work than with how many pay for it. If enough people enjoy your work your success is guaranteed. Also, I think it's important to remember why this bill, and this issue, are so important _specifically_ to the members of this list: the provisions in this bill to do with circumvention of DRM schemes run completely counter to the spirit and mechanics of open source software, and should be resisted with all due force. DRM is nothing more than an assault on free speech and creativity, to protect the banal and destructive status quo that would see us all as consumers of Brittany Spears and Microsoft, and should never, ever, be codified into any law. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: Oh... your... God. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From overholt-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 12:29:06 2008 From: overholt-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrew Overholt) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:29:06 -0400 Subject: how to tell which process is accessing my disk? In-Reply-To: <1219797557.6958.10.camel@localhost> References: <1219797557.6958.10.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20080827122906.GA3296@redhat.com> Hi, * Matt Price [2008-08-26 20:47]: > > is there a tool that lets me see what process is accessing the disk? Try iotop. Andrew -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 15:18:45 2008 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:18:45 -0400 Subject: Some Thoughts on Copyright In-Reply-To: <48B4B51C.30302-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48B4B51C.30302@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1219850326.16801.36.camel@leon> On Tue, 2008-08-26 at 21:59 -0400, Stephen wrote: > The copyright debate has been interesting, but clearly polarized. Most > here are on the ?fair use? side. "Fair use" is the American term. In Canada we get "Fair Dealing". They are similar, but have important differences. For example there is a "parody and satire" exemption in Fair use in the USA. There is no such exemption in Fair Trade in Canada. Australia appears to have a satire exemption in their Fair Trade law. http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/cipo/cp/copy_gd_protect-e.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing > But what, really, is fair use? That's a question for you and the lawyer that you are paying. ;-) > When I was in university, 35 years ago, we were given a photocopy of > a > book. And not a text book. > > Is that considered ?fair use?? That sounds like infringement to this layman, but: Quote below is from the CIPO website linked above: > One category is non-profit educational institutions. These are > permitted to make copies and perform works and other subject matter > protected by copyright, free of charge, in the classroom, subject to > certain restrictions. Educational institutions are also permitted to > make use of works protected by copyright if they are done on the > premises of an educational institution for educational or training > purposes, provided there are no suitable substitutes available in the > commercial marketplace. Also from the CIPO site, as an example of infringement: > Infringement: > * reprinting an article without the copyright owner's > permission; Perhaps this is "over-ruled" by the educational exemption above? Law is fun for laymen! Back to quoting Stephen, On Tue, 2008-08-26 at 21:59 -0400, Stephen wrote: > Many people have the opinion that if they buy something, they have > the > right to use what they buy in any way that they please. I believe that to be true. If I've paid you for the photo, you can't prevent me from setting fire to it. Or whatever other lunatic plans I may have. Setting fire to your creative work (if I've bought it!) does not infringe your copyright. Obviously setting fire to your photo while you are still holding it is an entirely different set of laws to discuss. > Now, I am a serious photographer. I hope to someday sell my > photographs. > Would a buyer of one of my photographs have the ?right? to scan the > photograph into digital form, I'd say yes to scanning. > and do some digital manipulation to it, I'd say yes to manipulating it. > then post it to a web site? Ah. Here we have a point for the lawyers again. Has my digital manipulation of your photo been enough to transform it into a new creative work? Then perhaps yes. Am I displaying only a thumbnail teaser as part of an ad to re-sell the original photo? Then perhaps yes. Is your photo some small part of a greater collective work? Then perhaps yes. But can I scan your photo and offer it as wallpaper with a minor change like my name emblazoned across the middle of the desktop? Almost certainly not. Can I make "prints" of your photo and try to sell 2000 copies? No, that sounds exactly like copyright violation. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 11:56:37 2008 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:56:37 -0400 Subject: how to tell which process is accessing my disk? In-Reply-To: <1219797557.6958.10.camel@localhost> References: <1219797557.6958.10.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20080827115637.GB25783@scarab.int.linuxcaffe.ca> On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 08:39:17PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > hi folks, > > i have a vague feeling i've sent this query out before, but i can't find > a record of it. is there a tool that lets me see what process is > accessing the disk? i just had a half-hour period where i couldn't use > my computer at ll because trackerd was monopolizing the disk. i'd like > to be able to fire up a command-line tool that will tell me what's going > on in such cases. the command in question is most likely "top". It's the bomb! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 21:10:01 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:10:01 -0400 Subject: A public thank you for Linux in the Park Message-ID: Just wanted to offer a brief public thank you to David Patrick down at Linuxcaffe for last weekend's Linux in the Park. Overall it was good fun with a mix of familiar plus some new faces munching away while talking about Linux and semi-related topics. Again thanks to David Patrick. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 14:50:20 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:50:20 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: <20080826182609.6db26104.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> <20080826022013.409f2466.tleslie@tcn.net> <48B476B9.6030008@dinamis.com> <20080826182609.6db26104.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20080827105020.134f8681@node1.freeyourmachine.org> ted leslie wrote: > I guess there is a fine line between breach of contract and illegal > possession, but some times they are close. No there isn't, and no they are not. The civil and criminal processes almost never meet. One is between two people or businesses, the other is between a _person_ and the State. Civil matters _never_ result in criminal penalties, such as jail time. Ever. There may be some cases where a person is both sued and charged, say where there was not only breach of contract but also fraud. However the two would be completely seperate cases, in seperate courtrooms, with seperate judges. > If you rent something or granted license to use it in a certain way, and > that expires and you don't give it back, then in some cases you stole it. Mabye, but that has nothing to do with Bill C-61, or the discussion here regarding fair use. No one here has said anything that would support renting a DVD and not returning it. > Maybe i should re-word what i said as breach on contract, and the > penalty of such breach can at times be worse then theft of an object. > I as a producer of something that can be copied, should be able to put > any right on its use i want, and if you don't like it, don't buy it. > Most musicians just don't want the stuff copied and given away whily-nilly. > If a DRM scheme could allow copying amongst your own devices, no one is going > to argue against that, but usually by allowing that, it extends it to be easy > to copy it to other people who havn't paid for it. It's easy for anyone to copy it, no matter whether DRM is employed or not. DRM has never stopped a single person who wanted to make copies of a song to share on the Internet, and it never will. The only people who will be affected by DRM and its codification in this bill are the ones who really do want to live with the letter of the law, like the producers of open source software who will be under the gun to write DRM code into their applications. This would of course be a disaster for Linux and FOSS. > You have every right to extend to someone a copy of a song you wrote, or your > DNA sequence, both are yours, and can be copied, but you probably want a say > about how they are copied, who can have them, and how they are used. There is > no difference between your DNA sequence and notes on a page, both personal to > you and both deserving of any constraints, limitations to use of copy that > you want to put on it, else you will not allow copy. So its just about > honouring a contract. So just keep in mind, when you talk about copying > things, laws around it, DRM, etc, sub in the words "your personal DNA > sequence" for the word "song", and see how it sounds, because one day, it > will be like that, and you might then care about how the stuff is handled, > and what happens to people that don't handle it with respect to how you (the > producer of the song or DNA) want it handled. Of course one day people will > just take some hair they found of yours, throw it into a DNA-sequencer-2000 > from The-Source, then publish your sequence out on the Internet for everyone > to see, and see what kind of genetic background you have, and what ailments, > or predispositions you may have. you would probably want some laws against > people doing this? And its not for anyone to say that DNA sequences be > treated any differently then a song, both are entitled to the same freedoms > or restrictions of use as deemed by the producer. What? > I think of breach of contract, and if by doing so, one gets benefit they > shouldn't have got, as stealing, but i guess technically that's debatable, > and depends on circumstance. Stealing or breach on contract, whatever, its a > crime, and people shouldn't do it. No, breach of contract is not a crime. This is the distinction that is so important, and that so many people get confused about. If I breach a contract, and somebody sues me, _there is no criminal offense involved_. Got it? No crime. It's a civil matter between two people, and this is _always_ how copyright law has worked. Even under this new bill, there are no criminal penalties defined as far as I know, it is entirely a codification of civil penalties. This is not a discussion of what is or is not criminal behaviour. No one on here is advocating anything even approaching that. > as for your thoughts on govn't below, i agree, > but as to who and what rights people have to copy my DNA or my songs, i guess > we disagree. > > I do believe most people are thieves, history and events show it, > natural disasters like Louisiana - the wide scale looting, the stats on the % > of Canadian who have swiss bank accounts, or cheat on tax returns, as it was > said in the Planet Of the Apes,- Don't go searching for this answer, as you > will NOT like what you find. Cheating on one's tax return is _not_ theft, taxes themselves are theft ;) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: Well I don't have anything else planned for today, let's get drunk! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 13:22:38 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:22:38 -0400 Subject: how to tell which process is accessing my disk? In-Reply-To: <1219797557.6958.10.camel@localhost> References: <1219797557.6958.10.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20080827132238.GM12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 08:39:17PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > i have a vague feeling i've sent this query out before, but i can't find > a record of it. is there a tool that lets me see what process is > accessing the disk? i just had a half-hour period where i couldn't use > my computer at ll because trackerd was monopolizing the disk. i'd like > to be able to fire up a command-line tool that will tell me what's going > on in such cases. # apt-cache show iotop Package: iotop Priority: optional Section: admin Installed-Size: 88 Maintainer: Paul Wise Architecture: all Version: 0.2-2 Depends: python (>= 2.5), python-support (>= 0.7.1) Filename: pool/main/i/iotop/iotop_0.2-2_all.deb Size: 12658 MD5sum: c6858d7ae3ee179b26d509118951e457 SHA1: 17c806efab5b9aedf791e8decd36b933a41ce362 SHA256: 801c113b0166d6518e67dba2c4aab14ea0a9274097e90e7c1f9ca26e43d3edb5 Description: simple top-like I/O monitor iotop does for I/O usage what top(1) does for CPU usage. It watches I/O usage information output by the Linux kernel (requires 2.6.20 or later) and displays a table of current I/O usage by processes on the system. Handy for answering the question "Why is my disk churning so much?". Homepage: http://guichaz.free.fr/iotop/ Tag: admin::monitoring -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 13:30:41 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:30:41 -0400 Subject: Some Thoughts on Copyright In-Reply-To: <48B4B51C.30302-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48B4B51C.30302@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080827133041.GN12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 09:59:56PM -0400, Stephen wrote: > The copyright debate has been interesting, but clearly polarized. Most > here are on the ?fair use? side. > > But what, really, is fair use? > > On a mailing list I subscribe to, someone posted a link to a video on > You tube. The video was made by someone who took slices of Star Trek > video and put them in a sequence that went well with a Jefferson > Airplane song, White Rabbit. > > I posted that this was a violation of copyright, but the OP claimed it > was ?fair use? and posted a link to a definition of fair use. > > I called them on it, quoting from the site they linked to. Fair use is > limited to using small portions of a copyrighted work, for the purpose > of a review and other specific uses. Certainly by the examples I have seen in the past, I would think that probably is fair use. Now if they used the whole song, that would be a violation, but using small clips of the tv show sounds like fair use. > When I was in university, 35 years ago, we were given a photocopy of a > book. And not a text book. > > Is that considered ?fair use?? No, but on the other hand universities sometimes buy the right to duplicate a book that is not in print at the time, which may be what had happened. > Many people have the opinion that if they buy something, they have the > right to use what they buy in any way that they please. For personal use I would say they are right. If they start to give away or sell things based on it, that's a different issue. > Now, I am a serious photographer. I hope to someday sell my photographs. > Would a buyer of one of my photographs have the ?right? to scan the > photograph into digital form, and do some digital manipulation to it, > then post it to a web site? I would think that depends just how much of the original image they use. Fair use gets tricky in those grey areas. > I have sold the photograph. I have retained copyright. > > Does the buyer have the ?right? to make a ?backup? copy of the photograph? Yes they do have a right to make a backup copy to store somewhere safe. At elast they should. Of course if you are willing to give them a replacement at no more than cost if they ever break the copy they paid you for, then they may prefer that since your copies are probably better quality than their backups in many cases. Fair use is tricky. The one thing I don't think is tricky is that use of a copyrighted item should be allowed for personal use. So if I want to use it on my device then I should be allowed to do that, no matter what kind of conversion I may have to perform on the item to do so. But only for my own use. Of course sometimes it is more convinient to go buy another copy of something in a different format (like buying a CD for those 78s you have and have trouble playing and converting), but in cases where the desired format can't be bought (and even if it can) I should be allowed to do the conversion so I can use it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 18:16:56 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:16:56 -0400 Subject: AS/400 How does it look? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1219861016.5955.4.camel@jaguar-hardy> On Sat, 2008-08-23 at 14:42 -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Hallo there, > > I happen to notice that a lot of Canadian companies uses IBM AS/400. > However, I haven't been fortunate to come across it and I am curious > how it look. Does it have any familiarity to Unix? What would be > reason that make it more popular in Canada than in USA? > > Just curious. > > Regards, > > William Greetings, I posted a message to an AS/400 mailing list on Sunday asking "What should I say to a *nix community?" The thread there has accumulated more messages than anybody here would care about. (Well, in case you do care, the archives are at . Scan for the question.) Here I shall bring some points from that thread as well as some of my own thoughts. My first message to midrange-l copied William Munithi's question about the relative popularity of the AS/400 in Canada compared to the US. I like the answer from Jon Paris ... It may or may not explain it, but Canadian companies tend to be smaller than comparable US companies and therefore less able to support the larger infrastructure that a Windows or Unix based solution would require. In my experience they also tend (like their European counterparts) to be a little more concerned with the practical utility of new hardware/ software/technologies/etc. than their American counterparts. In other words there is a little less "management by airline magazine" going on in than in the USA. and the response from Paul Nelson ... In other words, Canadians are smarter, eh? :-)) Jon has experience in Canada, the US, and Europe. Let me continue with a couple of "marketing" issues ... The midrange community includes many passionate, even vociferous, people. A central "issue" for us is the platform's support for old programs and old ways of working. This is, on the one hand, a valuable asset: companies with a large investment in software care proportionatly about protecting that investment. On the other hand, this remarkable level of compatibility--about 3 decades back for compiled objects, and considerable support for old-fashioned skills--is seen to threaten the very existence of the platform by encouraging disuse of modern capabilities. On Mondays and Wednesdays I agree with the former view; on Tuesdays and Thursdays I support the latter one. On Fridays, I can't make up my mind . A closely related question is the name of our favourite platform. The earliest incarnation is the IBM System/38; the name AS/400 is well known and indeed that is the name which William Munithi used when he started this thread; the current name is IBM POWER System i (I think ). The value (or otherwise) of backward compatibility at least permits arguments based on ROI. On the question of naming, everybody wants to do whatever will best sell the system, but in the absence of evidence the discussion includes a lot of "argument by emphatic assertion". For now, I declare that the new name has won. Moving on to other issues ... (*) People of average intelligence can run the system. This is an important result of the architectural integrity of the system. It just "makes sense". Windows administrators, in contrast, amaze me with the number of things they know. Obviously, this is because I have not grasped their organizing principle, if any, but I know that I am not alone in this failure. As evidence for the simplicity of the Power System i, consider that the job title DBA is almost unknown in this environment. (*) The system was designed from the ground up as a multi-user server with attention to scalability and profound attention to future viability. "Of course" it is unmatched in reliability, security, and support for internationalization. In this list, Christopher Browne mentioned "interesting aspects (in a "CS geek" sense)". Well, yes, now that you mention it, there are some interesting design decisions ... (*) According to Frank Soltis, the originator of the system, the design mistake hardest to fix is a too-small address space. System i is architected with an address space of 128 bits. Current implentations implement a mere 64 bits, but that has changed in the past and it can change again. Implementation is a mere detail. (And if you look at from the "right" level, a mere complete replacement of the implementation--giving vast increases in storage and processor power, hot swappable components, new packaging options, and lots more--is thin justification for changing the name of the platform, right? I am writing this on Wednesday, remember. I just do not know whether I am being serious or sarcastic here.) (*) There is one address space for the whole system. Some pointer manipulations become very expensive in comparison to similar operations under Linux. On the other hand, task switching is very cheap, amounting to a GOTO instruction. This is a commercial system, so it expects to do a lot of task switching. (*) Pointers are differentiated by expected use. A code pointer does not let you address data. A data pointer does not let you execute code. Can you say "resistance to stack-smashing"? (*) Pointers are not data. A program is free to change any or all of the bits in a pointer, but the result is no longer a pointer. There is simply no way to dereference the resulting bit pattern. Do you think this might improve system security? (This feature originated from a 32-bit word implemented with 8-bit memory chips. The data needs four memory chips per word, but you want error correction--this is a commercial system--so you add a fifth memory chip. But now you have one bit unused for each word. Behold, a "tag" bit to flag valid pointers. The POWER processor provides hardware support for these tag bits.) (*) The system is object-based. Each of the many object types on the system supports its applicable methods, and by no means are the interchangeable. For the most conspicuous example, files are files and programs are programs, and there is no way to update a program through the file methods. Can you say "virus resistance"? ( Do not confuse this with "object-oriented": only IBM can define object types. ) The points are not exhaused, but I confess that I am. Cheers, Terry, rent-a-geek and database-bithead. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 12:14:32 2008 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:14:32 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> <7ac602420808252028u3bd04a8drc45b6bce835b2cb8@mail.gmail.com> <48B3E5EC.5050307@rogers.com> <20080826173624.GK12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080827121432.GA25810@watson-wilson.ca> On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 04:06:44PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >DRM certainly can prevent free lending libraries. But it can be used >to create reasonable for-pay models. I like free lending libraries >but that isn't a fundamental right -- everything is on the table, even >if this isn't recognized by the public (or the party in power). Libraries are not free. You pay for them with your taxes. -- Neil Watson System Administrator for hire http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 13:12:19 2008 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken O. Burtch) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:12:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: Unfortunately, Scott I can't agree with you. The ideal world you're talking about is pretty ugly to me, ligation, distrust and revenge. And the legal system doesn't work the way you are describing: lawsuits are for the wealthy--if you can't feed your family, you certainly can't hire a lawyer for $3,000 to get $50 for a stolen manuscript. No, I think we're better off without that kind of world. Ken B. On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Scott C. Ripley wrote: > >> I'm not sure that was explained well. Like I said, read the article. > > i wouldn't have commented if i hadn't read your article... > >> Not really. I'm far more concerned at the low royalty rates paid to >> authors: an author writes the book, but the vast majority of the money goes >> to the big corporate publisher. I also elude to this in the article. > > big companies do make a lot of money off of creative people (musicians, > authors, etc.) by means of record contracts, publishing contracts, etc. > > i do imagine that for most creative people, the contracts favour the big > companies, and it's only the truly big stars who can negotiate more > favourable arrangements... > > however, imagine a world where: > > - there are no more traditional book publishers or record companies: > - authors/musicians/film-makers/etc. are able to publish/distribute > their own music/books/films leveraging the internet > - marketing of their books/music/films is accomplished via the internet: > - social networks, youtube, internet radio, and > other not yet-created mechanisms > > it seems reasonable to me that these authors/musicians/film-makers/etc. > should have the right to "control" (define control: take action against > people who don't have the right to distribute) their work... > > so if i write a book and i'm making it available for purchase at a reasonable > price in a e-book format on my web site (no DRM) and some person decides to > make a copy of it available for free - thus robbing me of the way that i'm > feeding my family - i hope i would be able to take some sort of legal action > to restore my revenue stream. > > (and to be clear, i think: > - DRM sucks > - purchased music/video/e-books, etc. should be transferable > from device to device for personal use by the individual who bought > them > - like any legislation, there are aspects of Bill C-60 that i'm fine > with and other aspects that i take issue with > - the suggestions for improving C-60 on: > http://www.digital-copyright.ca/billc60/Consumer_Fact_Sheet.shtml > seem reasonable to me) > > Scott > > > > > > > On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Ken O. Burtch wrote: > >> >> I don't think I can write a convincing reply, but you asked how I felt >> about the impact of electronic copies of my book. Colin could probably >> argue it better. >> >> I once slid my car into a ditch and walked down the road for help. The >> farmer said he'd pull me out if I paid him $20. When I didn't have that >> much money, he took down my drivers license and threatened to take me to >> court if he helped me and I didn't pay him. I don't want to live in a >> world like that, where people are vicitmized in the name of turning a >> profit. >> >> As I wrote in the article, there is a difference between making something >> freely available and being paid for your effort. My book IS freely >> available, legally or not, on file sharing servers. I'm earning acceptable >> royalties from book sales. Why would I want to charge somebody 15 cents >> every time they quoted an example from my book, or giving examples about >> what a great book it was to their friends? That's part of what this bill >> is about. It's not just about electronic copies. We're already paying >> money to music companies when we burn our Linux DVD's and that makes me >> ashamed of being Canadian. And does anyone remember the DVD decryption >> fiasco fueled by corporate greed and the DMCA? >> >> In the IT industry today, people are often overworked and underpaid and >> underappreciated. Everyone wants to make more money, get more respect. >> But it seems to me that earning a living and charging for electronic copies >> are two entirely different issues. Do I want to earn money to pay for my >> food and rent during the time I wrote my book? Sure. Do I think the best >> revenue stream is to launch an attack on the changing nature of technology >> and create laws that pimarily target the poor? Not really. I'm far more >> concerned at the low royalty rates paid to authors: an author writes the >> book, but the vast majority of the money goes to the big corporate >> publisher. I also elude to this in the article. >> >> I don't see free electronic copying as an attempt to exploit creative >> people. The bill is not an attempt to help people to earn a living. It's a >> money grab by the rich targetting the poor that will leave Canada in the >> electronic dark ages, a legal morass. In my opinion, the bill will >> actually cost authors like me money. >> >> I'm not sure that was explained well. Like I said, read the article. >> >> Ken B. >> >> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Scott C. Ripley wrote: >> >>> >>> Ken, >>> >>> as an author of a book... >>> >>> are you fine with someone making (or do you make?) an electronic copy >>> freely available? >>> >>> Scott >>> >>> >>> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Ken O. Burtch wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> See my Lone Coder blog, "If Free is Illegal, Who is the Pirate?" >>>> (http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_august_2007.html) for a detailed look >>>> at why getting something for nothing isn't stealing. >>>> >>>> Ken B. >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 18:41:12 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:41:12 -0400 Subject: AS/400 How does it look? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1219862472.5955.7.camel@jaguar-hardy> On Sat, 2008-08-23 at 14:42 -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Hallo there, > > I happen to notice that a lot of Canadian companies uses IBM AS/400. > However, I haven't been fortunate to come across it and I am curious > how it look. Does it have any familiarity to Unix? What would be > reason that make it more popular in Canada than in USA? > > Just curious. > > Regards, > > William Greetings, I posted a message to an AS/400 mailing list on Sunday asking "What should I say to a *nix community?" The thread there has accumulated more messages than anybody here would care about. (Well, in case you do care, the archives are at . Scan for the question.) Here I shall bring some points from that thread as well as some of my own thoughts. My first message to midrange-l copied William Munithi's question about the relative popularity of the AS/400 in Canada compared to the US. I like the answer from Jon Paris ... It may or may not explain it, but Canadian companies tend to be smaller than comparable US companies and therefore less able to support the larger infrastructure that a Windows or Unix based solution would require. In my experience they also tend (like their European counterparts) to be a little more concerned with the practical utility of new hardware/ software/technologies/etc. than their American counterparts. In other words there is a little less "management by airline magazine" going on in than in the USA. and the response from Paul Nelson ... In other words, Canadians are smarter, eh? :-)) Jon has experience in Canada, the US, and Europe. Let me continue with a couple of "marketing" issues ... The midrange community includes many passionate, even vociferous, people. A central "issue" for us is the platform's support for old programs and old ways of working. This is, on the one hand, a valuable asset: companies with a large investment in software care proportionatly about protecting that investment. On the other hand, this remarkable level of compatibility--about 3 decades back for compiled objects, and considerable support for old-fashioned skills--is seen to threaten the very existence of the platform by encouraging disuse of modern capabilities. On Mondays and Wednesdays I agree with the former view; on Tuesdays and Thursdays I support the latter one. On Fridays, I can't make up my mind . A closely related question is the name of our favourite platform. The earliest incarnation is the IBM System/38; the name AS/400 is well known and indeed that is the name which William Munithi used when he started this thread; the current name is IBM POWER System i (I think ). The value (or otherwise) of backward compatibility at least permits arguments based on ROI. On the question of naming, everybody wants to do whatever will best sell the system, but in the absence of evidence the discussion includes a lot of "argument by emphatic assertion". For now, I declare that the new name has won. Moving on to other issues ... (*) People of average intelligence can run the system. This is an important result of the architectural integrity of the system. It just "makes sense". Windows administrators, in contrast, amaze me with the number of things they know. Obviously, this is because I have not grasped their organizing principle, if any, but I know that I am not alone in this failure. As evidence for the simplicity of the Power System i, consider that the job title DBA is almost unknown in this environment. (*) The system was designed from the ground up as a multi-user server with attention to scalability and profound attention to future viability. "Of course" it is unmatched in reliability, security, and support for internationalization. In this list, Christopher Browne mentioned "interesting aspects (in a "CS geek" sense)". Well, yes, now that you mention it, there are some interesting design decisions ... (*) According to Frank Soltis, the originator of the system, the design mistake hardest to fix is a too-small address space. System i is architected with an address space of 128 bits. Current implentations implement a mere 64 bits, but that has changed in the past and it can change again. Implementation is a mere detail. (And if you look at from the "right" level, a mere complete replacement of the implementation--giving vast increases in storage and processor power, hot swappable components, new packaging options, and lots more--is thin justification for changing the name of the platform, right? I am writing this on Wednesday, remember. I just do not know whether I am being serious or sarcastic here.) (*) There is one address space for the whole system. Some pointer manipulations become very expensive in comparison to similar operations under Linux. On the other hand, task switching is very cheap, amounting to a GOTO instruction. This is a commercial system, so it expects to do a lot of task switching. (*) Pointers are differentiated by expected use. A code pointer does not let you address data. A data pointer does not let you execute code. Can you say "resistance to stack-smashing"? (*) Pointers are not data. A program is free to change any or all of the bits in a pointer, but the result is no longer a pointer. There is simply no way to dereference the resulting bit pattern. Do you think this might improve system security? (This feature originated from a 32-bit word implemented with 8-bit memory chips. The data needs four memory chips per word, but you want error correction--this is a commercial system--so you add a fifth memory chip. But now you have one bit unused for each word. Behold, a "tag" bit to flag valid pointers. The POWER processor provides hardware support for these tag bits.) (*) The system is object-based. Each of the many object types on the system supports its applicable methods, and by no means are the interchangeable. For the most conspicuous example, files are files and programs are programs, and there is no way to update a program through the file methods. Can you say "virus resistance"? ( Do not confuse this with "object-oriented": only IBM can define object types. ) The points are not exhaused, but I confess that I am. Cheers, Terry, rent-a-geek and database-bithead. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gordontc-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 22:18:35 2008 From: gordontc-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Gordon Chillcott) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:18:35 -0400 Subject: A public thank you for Linux in the Park In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1219875515.4155.0.camel@gnat.gordhome.local> I second the motion - - - Gordon Chillcott On Wed, 2008-08-27 at 17:10 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Just wanted to offer a brief public thank you to David Patrick down at > Linuxcaffe for last weekend's Linux in the Park. > > Overall it was good fun with a mix of familiar plus some new faces > munching away while talking about Linux and semi-related topics. > > Again thanks to David Patrick. > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 15:10:02 2008 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:10:02 -0400 Subject: Some Thoughts on Copyright In-Reply-To: <20080827012716.617a7a47-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <48B4B51C.30302@rogers.com> <20080827012716.617a7a47@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <046601c90856$fd409e90$f7c1dbb0$@com> > I think that the examples that people have written about on here are > pretty clear cut. If I own a song or CD, I think it is _ridiculous_ for > someone to argue that I should have to pay for three copies of said > song so I can play it in my car, on my iPod, and in my CD player. It's > just really stupid. IMHO this is what the RIAA and MPAA want. This is why some blu-ray discs become "bound" to the first player they are played in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BD+ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 22:27:07 2008 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:27:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Scott C. Ripley wrote: > Ken, I'm not Ken, but ... > as an author of a book... > > are you fine with someone making (or do you make?) an electronic copy freely > available? While I would prefer not to see my book freely available on a web site, it wouldn't bother me a great deal. My book is available for purchase on-line in a password-protected pdf. I don't imagine it would be hard to remove the password protection. I would prefer it to be in a non-protected HTML format. I think it would increase sales considerably. If it did, I wouldn't care how many people got it for nothing. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 23:15:50 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:15:50 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: References: <48A31E4C.3060403@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> Alex Beamish wrote: > On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > >> My wife and I are expanding our guitar lessons business to include piano >> tuning. She will be getting a Peterson Strobe tuning machine. I, however, >> will get a laptop with CyberTuner software. Before I get a Mac notebook to >> run the software I thought I would at least /look/ at linux. What inspired >> me to look at linux was that I saw an ASUS notebook at Krazy Krazy that >> comes loaded with ASUS linux. Of course it comes with a Windows CD as well >> (I guess to bail if you don't like linux). Does anyone know of piano-tuning >> software that works (for sure) in linux? >> > > For sure? No. > > However, a minute with Google produces .. > > http://piano-tuner.sourceforge.net/ > Okay, 'm trying to install this. What Am I doing wrong? chris at cpc:/tmp$ tar -zxvf piano-1.1.tar.gz piano-1.1/ piano-1.1/README piano-1.1/piano.h piano-1.1/term.h piano-1.1/filter.h piano-1.1/filter-i386.h piano-1.1/AUTHORS piano-1.1/COPYING piano-1.1/ChangeLog piano-1.1/INSTALL piano-1.1/Makefile.am piano-1.1/Makefile.in piano-1.1/NEWS piano-1.1/TODO piano-1.1/aclocal.m4 piano-1.1/config.guess piano-1.1/config.h.in piano-1.1/config.sub piano-1.1/configure piano-1.1/configure.in piano-1.1/depcomp piano-1.1/install-sh piano-1.1/missing piano-1.1/mkinstalldirs piano-1.1/mkcostab.c piano-1.1/mktonetab.c piano-1.1/main.c piano-1.1/costabf.c piano-1.1/term.c piano-1.1/demod_fine.c piano-1.1/demod_piano.c piano-1.1/tonetab.c piano-1.1/refreq.c piano-1.1/piano.1 piano-1.1/piano.spec piano-1.1/htmlup piano-1.1/index.html chris at cpc:/tmp$ cd piano-1.1 chris at cpc:/tmp/piano-1.1$ ./configure checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c checking whether build environment is sane... yes /tmp/piano-1.1/missing: Unknown `--run' option Try `/tmp/piano-1.1/missing --help' for more information configure: WARNING: `missing' script is too old or missing checking for gawk... no checking for mawk... mawk checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... yes checking for gawk... (cached) mawk checking for gcc... gcc checking for C compiler default output... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables chris at cpc:/tmp/piano-1.1$ make make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop. chris at cpc:/tmp/piano-1.1$ ls a- ls: cannot access a-: No such file or directory chris at cpc:/tmp/piano-1.1$ ls -a . config.guess configure.in depcomp INSTALL missing piano.1 term.c .. config.h.in COPYING filter.h install-sh mkcostab.c piano.h term.h aclocal.m4 config.log costabf.c filter-i386.h main.c mkinstalldirs piano.spec TODO AUTHORS config.sub demod_fine.c htmlup Makefile.am mktonetab.c README tonetab.c ChangeLog configure demod_piano.c index.html Makefile.in NEWS refreq.c chris at cpc:/tmp/piano-1.1$ vi README chris at cpc:/tmp/piano-1.1$ INSTALL bash: INSTALL: command not found chris at cpc:/tmp/piano-1.1$ sudo make make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop. chris at cpc:/tmp/piano-1.1$ sudo make install make: *** No rule to make target `install'. Stop. chris at cpc:/tmp/piano-1.1$ > It might be worth your while to download it and try it out to see if > it's worth basing a business on. > > >> This has to be something that works. I can't do one of these things like >> when I screwed around for six months trying to record on the E-MU 1212m pci >> in audacity (in linux) only to find out later that in fact there was no >> fully-functional linux driver for that card. I need this to work - we are >> taking over a huge client list for the piano-tuning. We want the software to >> speed things up (over the ear-only method), not to slow things down. >> > > To my mind, if you have a solution that works, but you're thinking > about betting the business on finding a Linux solution, that sounds > like a really poor bet. Go ahead and use the Mac solution that works, > but go ahead and tinker with the Linux solution as something to keep > in your back pocket. > > Good luck -- piano tuning is not for the faint-hearted. > > Alex > (former piano student) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 23:37:08 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 02:37:08 +0300 Subject: AS/400 How does it look? In-Reply-To: <1219861016.5955.4.camel@jaguar-hardy> References: <1219861016.5955.4.camel@jaguar-hardy> Message-ID: Terry, Many thanks for your explanation. I am now more knowledgeable on AS/400 platform. You really did a good job and I noticed it triggered some serious conversation over there. It did even get off topic and become car technology discussion. Noticed a lot of people there still think a solid car is safe. Someone corrected them very well, an easily collapsible car is far much safe. Regards, William 2008/8/27 Terrence Enger : > On Sat, 2008-08-23 at 14:42 -0400, William Muriithi wrote: >> Hallo there, >> >> I happen to notice that a lot of Canadian companies uses IBM AS/400. >> However, I haven't been fortunate to come across it and I am curious >> how it look. Does it have any familiarity to Unix? What would be >> reason that make it more popular in Canada than in USA? >> >> Just curious. >> >> Regards, >> >> William > > Greetings, > > I posted a message to an AS/400 mailing list on Sunday asking "What > should I say to a *nix community?" The thread there has accumulated > more messages than anybody here would care about. (Well, in case you > do care, the archives are at > . Scan > for the question.) Here I shall bring some points from that thread as > well as some of my own thoughts. > > > My first message to midrange-l copied William Munithi's question about > the relative popularity of the AS/400 in Canada compared to the US. I > like the answer from Jon Paris ... > > It may or may not explain it, but Canadian companies tend to be > smaller than comparable US companies and therefore less able to > support the larger infrastructure that a Windows or Unix based > solution would require. > > In my experience they also tend (like their European counterparts) > to be a little more concerned with the practical utility of new > hardware/ software/technologies/etc. than their American > counterparts. In other words there is a little less "management > by airline magazine" going on in than in the USA. > > and the response from Paul Nelson ... > > In other words, Canadians are smarter, eh? :-)) > > Jon has experience in Canada, the US, and Europe. > > > Let me continue with a couple of "marketing" issues ... > > The midrange community includes many passionate, even vociferous, > people. A central "issue" for us is the platform's support for old > programs and old ways of working. This is, on the one hand, a > valuable asset: companies with a large investment in software care > proportionatly about protecting that investment. On the other hand, > this remarkable level of compatibility--about 3 decades back for > compiled objects, and considerable support for old-fashioned > skills--is seen to threaten the very existence of the platform by > encouraging disuse of modern capabilities. On Mondays and Wednesdays > I agree with the former view; on Tuesdays and Thursdays I support the > latter one. On Fridays, I can't make up my mind . > > A closely related question is the name of our favourite platform. The > earliest incarnation is the IBM System/38; the name AS/400 is well > known and indeed that is the name which William Munithi used when he > started this thread; the current name is IBM POWER System i (I think > ). The value (or otherwise) of backward compatibility at > least permits arguments based on ROI. On the question of naming, > everybody wants to do whatever will best sell the system, but in the > absence of evidence the discussion includes a lot of "argument by > emphatic assertion". For now, I declare that the new name has won. > > > Moving on to other issues ... > > (*) People of average intelligence can run the system. This is an > important result of the architectural integrity of the system. It > just "makes sense". > > Windows administrators, in contrast, amaze me with the number of > things they know. Obviously, this is because I have not grasped > their organizing principle, if any, but I know that I am not alone > in this failure. > > As evidence for the simplicity of the Power System i, consider > that the job title DBA is almost unknown in this environment. > > (*) The system was designed from the ground up as a multi-user server > with attention to scalability and profound attention to future > viability. "Of course" it is unmatched in reliability, security, > and support for internationalization. > > > In this list, Christopher Browne mentioned "interesting aspects (in a > "CS geek" sense)". Well, yes, now that you mention it, there are some > interesting design decisions ... > > (*) According to Frank Soltis, the originator of the system, the > design mistake hardest to fix is a too-small address space. > System i is architected with an address space of 128 bits. > > Current implentations implement a mere 64 bits, but that has > changed in the past and it can change again. Implementation is a > mere detail. (And if you look at from the "right" level, a mere > complete replacement of the implementation--giving vast increases > in storage and processor power, hot swappable components, new > packaging options, and lots more--is thin justification for > changing the name of the platform, right? I am writing this on > Wednesday, remember. I just do not know whether I am > being serious or sarcastic here.) > > (*) There is one address space for the whole system. Some pointer > manipulations become very expensive in comparison to similar > operations under Linux. On the other hand, task switching is very > cheap, amounting to a GOTO instruction. This is a commercial > system, so it expects to do a lot of task switching. > > (*) Pointers are differentiated by expected use. A code pointer does > not let you address data. A data pointer does not let you execute > code. Can you say "resistance to stack-smashing"? > > (*) Pointers are not data. A program is free to change any or all of > the bits in a pointer, but the result is no longer a pointer. > There is simply no way to dereference the resulting bit pattern. > Do you think this might improve system security? > > (This feature originated from a 32-bit word implemented with 8-bit > memory chips. The data needs four memory chips per word, but you > want error correction--this is a commercial system--so you add a > fifth memory chip. But now you have one bit unused for each word. > Behold, a "tag" bit to flag valid pointers. The POWER processor > provides hardware support for these tag bits.) > > (*) The system is object-based. Each of the many object types on the > system supports its applicable methods, and by no means are the > interchangeable. For the most conspicuous example, files are > files and programs are programs, and there is no way to update a > program through the file methods. Can you say "virus resistance"? > > ( Do not confuse this with "object-oriented": only IBM can define > object types. ) > > > The points are not exhaused, but I confess that I am. > > Cheers, > Terry, > rent-a-geek and database-bithead. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 23:37:55 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:37:55 -0400 Subject: Some Thoughts on Copyright In-Reply-To: <046601c90856$fd409e90$f7c1dbb0$@com> References: <48B4B51C.30302@rogers.com> <20080827012716.617a7a47@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <046601c90856$fd409e90$f7c1dbb0$@com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880808271637q19fe2c87s432f2402c785ba30@mail.gmail.com> Hi, My opinion on this is: What happens if your old blu-ray disc player gets destroyed, does that mean all your current Bluray disc is no longer playable on your new player? And I bought this media .. I know some dvd's are limited time only , what happens if these disc get ruined, why should it be illegal for me to have a backup of that? On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> I think that the examples that people have written about on here are >> pretty clear cut. If I own a song or CD, I think it is _ridiculous_ for >> someone to argue that I should have to pay for three copies of said >> song so I can play it in my car, on my iPod, and in my CD player. It's >> just really stupid. > > > IMHO this is what the RIAA and MPAA want. This is why some blu-ray discs become "bound" to the first player they are played in. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BD+ > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikesi-ft1kE4FQKTmJ6jDlghZswwC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 14:49:28 2008 From: mikesi-ft1kE4FQKTmJ6jDlghZswwC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Mike Sillers) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:49:28 -0400 Subject: Fair Use - RE: Some Thoughts on Copyright Message-ID: Fair use is an important point but where is the point at which it becomes theft? One of the main points is credit. Another is fair compensation. I think we would agree if someone copies something to give away or accepts something copies to avoid paying, that could be considered theft. On the other hand, what if the purpose is education as might be argued in the case of a text book where the purpose may be considered altruistic yet is still attempting to get something for sale without paying for it. Then of course, there is the case of someone copying something for their own personal profit. I would not mind my work being copied provided I was credited and the work was not created as a saleable item without my consent. I am more concerned about powers given to corporate entities. Some of you may find the following article interesting: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/06/arts/design/06prin.html?_r=2&ref=todayspap %20er&oref=slogin&oref=slogin Mike -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Sent: August 26, 2008 10:00 PM To: TO Linux User Group Subject: [TLUG]: Some Thoughts on Copyright The copyright debate has been interesting, but clearly polarized. Most here are on the "fair use" side. But what, really, is fair use? On a mailing list I subscribe to, someone posted a link to a video on You tube. The video was made by someone who took slices of Star Trek video and put them in a sequence that went well with a Jefferson Airplane song, White Rabbit. I posted that this was a violation of copyright, but the OP claimed it was "fair use" and posted a link to a definition of fair use. I called them on it, quoting from the site they linked to. Fair use is limited to using small portions of a copyrighted work, for the purpose of a review and other specific uses. When I was in university, 35 years ago, we were given a photocopy of a book. And not a text book. Is that considered "fair use"? Many people have the opinion that if they buy something, they have the right to use what they buy in any way that they please. Now, I am a serious photographer. I hope to someday sell my photographs. Would a buyer of one of my photographs have the "right" to scan the photograph into digital form, and do some digital manipulation to it, then post it to a web site? I have sold the photograph. I have retained copyright. Does the buyer have the "right" to make a "backup" copy of the photograph? Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 00:04:34 2008 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:04:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: <20080827121432.GA25810-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> <7ac602420808252028u3bd04a8drc45b6bce835b2cb8@mail.gmail.com> <48B3E5EC.5050307@rogers.com> <20080826173624.GK12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080827121432.GA25810@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <56864.192.30.202.22.1219881874.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> > On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 04:06:44PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >>DRM certainly can prevent free lending libraries. But it can be used >>to create reasonable for-pay models. I like free lending libraries >>but that isn't a fundamental right -- everything is on the table, even >>if this isn't recognized by the public (or the party in power). > > Libraries are not free. You pay for them with your taxes. > > -- > Neil Watson > System Administrator for hire > http://watson-wilson.ca When I visited London and St. Thomas (both in Ontario), I was stunned by the charges for a nonlocal Canadian taxpayer to use their services. James ('Jim') E. McIntosh -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 00:32:15 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 03:32:15 +0300 Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: <20080827105020.134f8681-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <200808181228.m7ICS0Zl024210@mail.flarn.com> <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> <20080826022013.409f2466.tleslie@tcn.net> <48B476B9.6030008@dinamis.com> <20080826182609.6db26104.tleslie@tcn.net> <20080827105020.134f8681@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: Leslie, > > The only people who will be affected by DRM and its codification in this bill > are the ones who really do want to live with the letter of the law, like the > producers of open source software who will be under the gun to write DRM code > into their applications. This would of course be a disaster for Linux and FOSS. > Thought about its effect on FOSS a bit and I can?t see any possibility of DRM code in this industry. Seriously, this will be very unlikely to happen. What is likely to happen is DRMed content will not be available in Linux world. To give you an idea of how hard it is to introduce DRM in Linux, I would encourage you to look at what happened to cryptoloop. I don?t remember who was working on it, but I recall it was someone from NSA. Someone did mention that it had a weakness and the weakness was deliberately introduced. From then on, I would not be exaggerating if I say he had a hostile relationship with other kernel hackers from then on. I can see similar dynamics if one tried to introduce DRM. If I interpolate even wider, even the existing windows installations may not ever support DRM proper. That lack of backward compatibility may make it almost impossible to implement it. And then, what if it becomes common for people to unlock the phones? Then it loose the effect of being dirty. Heck, it may even become moot should the new wireless entrants overlook locking their phones to attract more customers. Anyway, time will tell Regards, William > -- > JoeHill > ++++++++++++++++++++ > Bender: Well I don't have anything else planned for today, let's get drunk! > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 01:53:01 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 21:53:01 -0400 Subject: Some Thoughts on Copyright In-Reply-To: <046601c90856$fd409e90$f7c1dbb0$@com> References: <48B4B51C.30302@rogers.com> <20080827012716.617a7a47@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <046601c90856$fd409e90$f7c1dbb0$@com> Message-ID: <48B604FD.1050906@rogers.com> Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> I think that the examples that people have written about on here are >> pretty clear cut. If I own a song or CD, I think it is _ridiculous_ for >> someone to argue that I should have to pay for three copies of said >> song so I can play it in my car, on my iPod, and in my CD player. It's >> just really stupid. >> > > > IMHO this is what the RIAA and MPAA want. This is why some blu-ray discs become "bound" to the first player they are played in. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BD+ > > That'll certainly do wonders for rentals. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 02:05:35 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:05:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Some Thoughts on Copyright In-Reply-To: <1219850326.16801.36.camel@leon> References: <48B4B51C.30302@rogers.com> <1219850326.16801.36.camel@leon> Message-ID: | From: Richard Weait | Back to quoting Stephen, On Tue, 2008-08-26 at 21:59 -0400, Stephen | wrote: | > Many people have the opinion that if they buy something, they have | > the | > right to use what they buy in any way that they please. | | I believe that to be true. If I've paid you for the photo, you can't | prevent me from setting fire to it. Or whatever other lunatic plans I | may have. Setting fire to your creative work (if I've bought it!) does | not infringe your copyright. Obviously setting fire to your photo while | you are still holding it is an entirely different set of laws to | discuss. See "moral rights". You do not have the right to do anything you want. Moral rights are kind of alien to us, but they came in with the Berne convention. Some time ago, for Canadians. In the 1970's for Americans. The famous example in Canada is Michael Snow preventing the Eaton Centre from tying Christmas bows around his geese sculptures. DRM anti-circumvention legislation will render illegal another kind of use of things you think you own. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 02:24:55 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:24:55 -0400 Subject: Quebec gov't sued for buying Microsoft Message-ID: <48B60C77.6070908@telly.org> http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/08/27/tech-quebec.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 02:39:06 2008 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David C. Chipman) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:39:06 -0400 Subject: A public thank you for Linux in the Park In-Reply-To: <1219875515.4155.0.camel-uJOd+7z+CzaU6o2RgC31msM6rOWSkUom@public.gmane.org> References: <1219875515.4155.0.camel@gnat.gordhome.local> Message-ID: <20080827223906.245bfc27@david.chipman> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:18:35 -0400 Gordon Chillcott wrote: > I second the motion - - - > > Gordon Chillcott > > > On Wed, 2008-08-27 at 17:10 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > > Just wanted to offer a brief public thank you to David Patrick down > > at Linuxcaffe for last weekend's Linux in the Park. > > > > Overall it was good fun with a mix of familiar plus some new faces > > munching away while talking about Linux and semi-related topics. > > > > Again thanks to David Patrick. > > > > Colin McGregor > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > I third the motion! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 02:41:01 2008 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David C. Chipman) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:41:01 -0400 Subject: Quebec gov't sued for buying Microsoft In-Reply-To: <48B60C77.6070908-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <48B60C77.6070908@telly.org> Message-ID: <20080827224101.29792de9@david.chipman> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:24:55 -0400 Evan Leibovitch wrote: > http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/08/27/tech-quebec.html > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Hi Evan, Now I'm waiting for someone to go after Ontario! -David Chipman -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 03:12:30 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:12:30 -0400 Subject: NewTLUG / Open Street Map follow-ups... Message-ID: At last evening's NewTLUG Richard Weait gave an excellent overview of Open Street Map. For those who are interested in getting your toes wet with doing mapping, it is worth noting that Microsoft's (yes Microsoft's) "Streets & Trips 2006 with GPS Locator" is on sale at "Factory Direct" ( with several locations in southern Ontario) is on sale for "19.99*". The asterisk meaning the package is $34.99 with a $15 mail in rebate. The sale is on until the end of Friday. I have bought one. The idea being in essence, buy the package, toss the software and keep the locator as their is a Linux driver to support the GPS receiver. The receiver is about 5cm x 5cm x 1.5cm and plugs into a USB port. Any mobile mapping will require that one have a laptop, set-up / powered on, not good for backpackers, but great if one is in a car/truck... Of further note "Factory Direct" does carry the 2007 edition of the above package. The receiver included with the 2007 edition is smaller, by eye I would say about 1/2 to 2/3 the size. But the price was $50, far to much for my tastes... Of further note, I gather there will be a massive open street mapping session to coincide with "Software Freedom Day", 20 September 2008. Should a Toronto effort get rolling I gather Richard Weait has offered to loan some GPS hardware to GTALug folks to help us expand our reach... Is this something that GTALug would like to do? Thoughts? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 04:06:59 2008 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 00:06:59 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: <48B5E026.5000606-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <48A31E4C.3060403@chrisaitken.net> <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 7:15 PM, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > Alex Beamish wrote: >> >> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Mr Chris Aitken >> wrote: >> >>> >>> My wife and I are expanding our guitar lessons business to include piano >>> tuning. She will be getting a Peterson Strobe tuning machine. I, however, >>> will get a laptop with CyberTuner software. Before I get a Mac notebook >>> to >>> run the software I thought I would at least /look/ at linux. What >>> inspired >>> me to look at linux was that I saw an ASUS notebook at Krazy Krazy that >>> comes loaded with ASUS linux. Of course it comes with a Windows CD as >>> well >>> (I guess to bail if you don't like linux). Does anyone know of >>> piano-tuning >>> software that works (for sure) in linux? >>> >> >> For sure? No. >> >> However, a minute with Google produces .. >> >> http://piano-tuner.sourceforge.net/ >> > > Okay, 'm trying to install this. What Am I doing wrong? > > chris at cpc:/tmp$ tar -zxvf piano-1.1.tar.gz > piano-1.1/ > piano-1.1/README [..] > piano-1.1/index.html > chris at cpc:/tmp$ cd piano-1.1 > chris at cpc:/tmp/piano-1.1$ ./configure > checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c > checking whether build environment is sane... yes > /tmp/piano-1.1/missing: Unknown `--run' option > Try `/tmp/piano-1.1/missing --help' for more information > configure: WARNING: `missing' script is too old or missing > checking for gawk... no > checking for mawk... mawk > checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... yes > checking for gawk... (cached) mawk > checking for gcc... gcc > checking for C compiler default output... configure: error: C compiler > cannot create executables This looks to be your problem -- your C compiler cannot create executables. When I downloaded the tarball, unpacked the source code and ran configure, I got [...] checking for gawk... (cached) gawk checking for gcc... gcc checking for C compiler default output... a.out checking whether the C compiler works... yes checking whether we are cross compiling... no [...] checking for strtod... yes configure: creating ./config.status config.status: creating Makefile config.status: creating config.h config.status: executing depfiles commands [tab at music piano-1.1]$ That's a successful configure operation, and after that I went on to do a my successful make. Someone else can probably suggest why your compiler can't produce executables. Apart from Googling, I don't have anything to suggest, but good luck with that. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 12:27:18 2008 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:27:18 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Please Stand Against the New Copyright Bill In-Reply-To: <56864.192.30.202.22.1219881874.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <4B68BB7F2282E84288736745E7EA65E50AFA4814@excbe02z.hoc-cdc.ca> <48B35E84.5010705@chrisaitken.net> <7ac602420808252028u3bd04a8drc45b6bce835b2cb8@mail.gmail.com> <48B3E5EC.5050307@rogers.com> <20080826173624.GK12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080827121432.GA25810@watson-wilson.ca> <56864.192.30.202.22.1219881874.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20080828122718.GB10109@watson-wilson.ca> On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 08:04:34PM -0400, jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org wrote: >> Libraries are not free. You pay for them with your taxes. > >When I visited London and St. Thomas (both in Ontario), I was stunned by >the charges for a nonlocal Canadian taxpayer to use their services. I think that libraries are mostly funded by municipal taxes. -- Neil Watson System Administrator for hire http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 12:46:02 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:46:02 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: <20080828044035.GA8840-AZu5J0u3PMt/LtIqEKMDMfN90d+awN/n@public.gmane.org> References: <48A31E4C.3060403@chrisaitken.net> <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> <20080828044035.GA8840@low-shang.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <48B69E0A.3090509@chrisaitken.net> Tom Low-Shang wrote: > On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 07:15:50PM -0400, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > >>> >>> >> Okay, 'm trying to install this. What Am I doing wrong? >> >> chris at cpc:/tmp$ tar -zxvf piano-1.1.tar.gz >> > > Try the whole exercise in your home directory. Maybe /tmp is mounted > noexec, so the test programs that configure creates, cannot run. > Okay, I tried it in my home directory with the same results: chris at cpc:~$ tar -zxvf piano-1.1.tar.gz piano-1.1/ piano-1.1/README piano-1.1/piano.h piano-1.1/term.h piano-1.1/filter.h piano-1.1/filter-i386.h piano-1.1/AUTHORS piano-1.1/COPYING piano-1.1/ChangeLog piano-1.1/INSTALL piano-1.1/Makefile.am piano-1.1/Makefile.in piano-1.1/NEWS piano-1.1/TODO piano-1.1/aclocal.m4 piano-1.1/config.guess piano-1.1/config.h.in piano-1.1/config.sub piano-1.1/configure piano-1.1/configure.in piano-1.1/depcomp piano-1.1/install-sh piano-1.1/missing piano-1.1/mkinstalldirs piano-1.1/mkcostab.c piano-1.1/mktonetab.c piano-1.1/main.c piano-1.1/costabf.c piano-1.1/term.c piano-1.1/demod_fine.c piano-1.1/demod_piano.c piano-1.1/tonetab.c piano-1.1/refreq.c piano-1.1/piano.1 piano-1.1/piano.spec piano-1.1/htmlup piano-1.1/index.html chris at cpc:~$ cd piano-1.1 chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ ./configure checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c checking whether build environment is sane... yes /home/chris/piano-1.1/missing: Unknown `--run' option Try `/home/chris/piano-1.1/missing --help' for more information configure: WARNING: `missing' script is too old or missing checking for gawk... no checking for mawk... mawk checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... yes checking for gawk... (cached) mawk checking for gcc... gcc checking for C compiler default output... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ make make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop. chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 13:00:29 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:00:29 -0400 Subject: apology for dup posting In-Reply-To: <1219862472.5955.7.camel@jaguar-hardy> References: <1219862472.5955.7.camel@jaguar-hardy> Message-ID: <1219928429.5971.10.camel@jaguar-hardy> I apologize for the duplicate posting. Not yet accustomed to having a threaded display of sent items. Cheers, Terry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 13:07:32 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:07:32 -0400 Subject: AS/400 How does it look? In-Reply-To: References: <1219861016.5955.4.camel@jaguar-hardy> Message-ID: <1219928852.5971.18.camel@jaguar-hardy> On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 02:37 +0300, William Muriithi wrote: > Terry, > > Many thanks for your explanation. I am now more knowledgeable on > AS/400 platform. You really did a good job and I noticed it triggered > some serious conversation over there. It did even get off topic and > become car technology discussion. Noticed a lot of people there still > think a solid car is safe. Someone corrected them very well, an easily > collapsible car is far much safe. > > Regards, > > William William, I am really surprised by the level of interest over there. The self-sacrificing car seems like it should give some lesson to us in computing, but I am stuck trying to figure out what that lesson might be. Cheers, Terry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 13:33:24 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:33:24 -0400 Subject: AS/400 How does it look? In-Reply-To: <1219928852.5971.18.camel@jaguar-hardy> References: <1219861016.5955.4.camel@jaguar-hardy> <1219928852.5971.18.camel@jaguar-hardy> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Terrence Enger wrote: > On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 02:37 +0300, William Muriithi wrote: >> Terry, >> >> Many thanks for your explanation. I am now more knowledgeable on >> AS/400 platform. You really did a good job and I noticed it triggered >> some serious conversation over there. It did even get off topic and >> become car technology discussion. Noticed a lot of people there still >> think a solid car is safe. Someone corrected them very well, an easily >> collapsible car is far much safe. >> >> Regards, >> >> William > > William, > > I am really surprised by the level of interest over there. > > The self-sacrificing car seems like it should give some lesson to us in > computing, but I am stuck trying to figure out what that lesson might > be. It's pretty clear: You need to be sure to solve the *right* problem. At first glance, having the car survive the crash *seems* like the right idea; if it's not too badly damaged, that seems an obviously good thing, right? Unfortunately, its survivability distracts people from the *real* goal, which is to preserve the lives of the passengers. I browsed the thread; certainly some interesting points were made. Everyone didn't agree, but that's a good sign of there being at least some diversity in the group :-). Something I'd be interested in hearing more about is the "jobs" concept. To be sure, the usual Unix notion of "oh, just run cron" is severely deficient. It is unfortunate that there hasn't been an outgrowth of free software alternatives to cron that are fundamentally better. I have asked about this sort of thing before, both on this forum, and elsewhere; here's some summary of my thoughts... http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-admin/2007-07/msg00034.php I'd be interested in hearing what AS/400 (or whatever it's sold as this week :-)) has as its "basic concept." -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 13:50:13 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:50:13 -0400 Subject: Software Freedom Day - 20 September 2008 Message-ID: Software Freedom Day is coming up on 20 September 2008. Question is, what are we going to do about it here in Toronto? I gather there will be a massive open street mapping session to coincide with "Software Freedom Day", 20 September 2008. Should a Toronto effort get rolling I gather Richard Weait has offered to loan some GPS hardware to GTALug folks to help us expand our reach... The Open Street Map project is something I would like to work on. I was semi-amused to see some of the streets near where a cousin of mine lives (in Toronto) listed as "FIXME", something I see as an invitation... Also, this is the sort of thing that would only require that I carry a map printout and a ball point pen... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 13:58:31 2008 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:58:31 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: <48B69E0A.3090509-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <48A31E4C.3060403@chrisaitken.net> <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> <20080828044035.GA8840@low-shang.homelinux.com> <48B69E0A.3090509@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 8:46 AM, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > Tom Low-Shang wrote: >> >> On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 07:15:50PM -0400, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: >> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Okay, 'm trying to install this. What Am I doing wrong? >>> >>> chris at cpc:/tmp$ tar -zxvf piano-1.1.tar.gz >>> >> >> Try the whole exercise in your home directory. Maybe /tmp is mounted >> noexec, so the test programs that configure creates, cannot run. >> > > Okay, I tried it in my home directory with the same results: > > chris at cpc:~$ tar -zxvf piano-1.1.tar.gz > piano-1.1/ > piano-1.1/README [...] > piano-1.1/htmlup > piano-1.1/index.html > chris at cpc:~$ cd piano-1.1 > chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ ./configure > checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c > checking whether build environment is sane... yes > /home/chris/piano-1.1/missing: Unknown `--run' option > Try `/home/chris/piano-1.1/missing --help' for more information > configure: WARNING: `missing' script is too old or missing > checking for gawk... no > checking for mawk... mawk > checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... yes > checking for gawk... (cached) mawk > checking for gcc... gcc > checking for C compiler default output... configure: error: C compiler > cannot create executables Sigh .. one Google search later, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=17033 Check your development environment against the messages at the bottom of this page and try again. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 13:58:31 2008 From: daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Daniel Hedlund) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:58:31 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: <48B69E0A.3090509-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <48A31E4C.3060403@chrisaitken.net> <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> <20080828044035.GA8840@low-shang.homelinux.com> <48B69E0A.3090509@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 8:46 AM, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > configure: WARNING: `missing' script is too old or missing > checking for gawk... no > checking for mawk... mawk > checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... yes > checking for gawk... (cached) mawk > checking for gcc... gcc > checking for C compiler default output... configure: error: C compiler > cannot create executables > chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ make Try verifying whether your C compiler is working: echo "int main() { return 1; }" > compile-test.c gcc compile-test.c Also, please let us know what distribution you are using. For example, if you are running Ubuntu or Debian, installing the following package might solve your problem: sudo apt-get install libc-dev Cheers, Daniel Hedlund daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 14:50:45 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:50:45 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: References: <48A31E4C.3060403@chrisaitken.net> <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> <20080828044035.GA8840@low-shang.homelinux.com> <48B69E0A.3090509@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <48B6BB45.4030600@chrisaitken.net> Daniel Hedlund wrote: > On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 8:46 AM, Mr Chris Aitken > > wrote: > > configure: WARNING: `missing' script is too old or missing > checking for gawk... no > checking for mawk... mawk > checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... yes > checking for gawk... (cached) mawk > checking for gcc... gcc > checking for C compiler default output... configure: error: C > compiler cannot create executables > chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ make > > > Try verifying whether your C compiler is working: > echo "int main() { return 1; }" > compile-test.c > gcc compile-test.c chris at cpc:~$ echo "int main() { return 1; }" > compile-test.c chris at cpc:~$ gcc compile-test.c /usr/bin/ld: crt1.o: No such file: No such file or directory collect2: ld returned 1 exit status chris at cpc:~$ echo "int main() { return 1; }" > compile-test.c chris at cpc:~$ gcc compile-test.c chris at cpc:~$ su Password: root at cpc:/home/chris# echo "int main() { return 1; }" > compile-test.c root at cpc:/home/chris# gcc compile-test.c root at cpc:/home/chris# echo "int main() { return 1; }" > compile-test.c gcc compile-test.c root at cpc:/home/chris# > > Also, please let us know what distribution you are using. Ubuntu 8.04 > For example, if you are running Ubuntu or Debian, installing the > following package might solve your problem: > sudo apt-get install libc-dev chris at cpc:~$ sudo apt-get install libc-dev [sudo] password for chris: Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Note, selecting libc6-dev instead of libc-dev The following extra packages will be installed: libc6-dev linux-libc-dev Suggested packages: glibc-doc manpages-dev The following NEW packages will be installed: libc6-dev linux-libc-dev 0 upgraded, 2 newly installed, 0 to remove and 92 not upgraded. Need to get 4040kB of archives. After this operation, 17.2MB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue [Y/n]? Y Get:1 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com hardy-updates/main linux-libc-dev 2.6.24-19.41 [696kB] Get:2 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com hardy/main libc6-dev 2.7-10ubuntu3 [3344kB] Fetched 4040kB in 34s (118kB/s) Selecting previously deselected package linux-libc-dev. (Reading database ... 147645 files and directories currently installed.) Unpacking linux-libc-dev (from .../linux-libc-dev_2.6.24-19.41_i386.deb) ... Selecting previously deselected package libc6-dev. Unpacking libc6-dev (from .../libc6-dev_2.7-10ubuntu3_i386.deb) ... Setting up linux-libc-dev (2.6.24-19.41) ... Setting up libc6-dev (2.7-10ubuntu3) ... Then I tried the installation again: chris at cpc:~$ cd piano-1.1 chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ ./configure checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c checking whether build environment is sane... yes /home/chris/piano-1.1/missing: Unknown `--run' option Try `/home/chris/piano-1.1/missing --help' for more information configure: WARNING: `missing' script is too old or missing checking for gawk... no checking for mawk... mawk checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... yes checking for gawk... (cached) mawk checking for gcc... gcc checking for C compiler default output... a.out checking whether the C compiler works... yes checking whether we are cross compiling... no checking for suffix of executables... checking for suffix of object files... o checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes checking whether gcc accepts -g... yes checking for style of include used by make... GNU checking dependency style of gcc... gcc3 checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c checking whether ln -s works... yes checking for main in -lncurses... no checking how to run the C preprocessor... gcc -E checking for ANSI C header files... yes checking for sys/wait.h that is POSIX.1 compatible... yes checking for sys/types.h... yes checking for sys/stat.h... yes checking for stdlib.h... yes checking for string.h... yes checking for memory.h... yes checking for strings.h... yes checking for inttypes.h... yes checking for stdint.h... yes checking for unistd.h... yes checking fcntl.h usability... yes checking fcntl.h presence... yes checking for fcntl.h... yes checking sys/ioctl.h usability... yes checking sys/ioctl.h presence... yes checking for sys/ioctl.h... yes checking sys/time.h usability... yes checking sys/time.h presence... yes checking for sys/time.h... yes checking for unistd.h... (cached) yes checking for gcc option to accept ANSI C... none needed checking for an ANSI C-conforming const... yes checking for inline... inline checking for pid_t... yes checking whether time.h and sys/time.h may both be included... yes checking whether gcc needs -traditional... no checking for stdlib.h... (cached) yes checking for unistd.h... (cached) yes checking for getpagesize... yes checking for working mmap... yes checking return type of signal handlers... void checking for strftime... yes checking for vprintf... yes checking for _doprnt... no checking for gettimeofday... yes checking for select... yes checking for strstr... yes checking for strtod... yes configure: creating ./config.status config.status: creating Makefile config.status: creating config.h config.status: executing depfiles commands chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ make make all-am make[1]: Entering directory `/home/chris/piano-1.1' source='main.c' object='main.o' libtool=no \ depfile='.deps/main.Po' tmpdepfile='.deps/main.TPo' \ depmode=gcc3 /bin/bash ./depcomp \ gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I. -g -O2 -c `test -f 'main.c' || echo './'`main.c In file included from main.c:28: term.h:25:20: error: curses.h: No such file or directory main.c:29:21: error: ncurses.h: No such file or directory make[1]: *** [main.o] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/chris/piano-1.1' make: *** [all] Error 2 chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ su Password: root at cpc:/home/chris/piano-1.1# make install source='main.c' object='main.o' libtool=no \ depfile='.deps/main.Po' tmpdepfile='.deps/main.TPo' \ depmode=gcc3 /bin/bash ./depcomp \ gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I. -g -O2 -c `test -f 'main.c' || echo './'`main.c In file included from main.c:28: term.h:25:20: error: curses.h: No such file or directory main.c:29:21: error: ncurses.h: No such file or directory make: *** [main.o] Error 1 root at cpc:/home/chris/piano-1.1# > > > Cheers, > > Daniel Hedlund > daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 15:03:01 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:03:01 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: References: <48A31E4C.3060403@chrisaitken.net> <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> <20080828044035.GA8840@low-shang.homelinux.com> <48B69E0A.3090509@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <48B6BE25.1060901@chrisaitken.net> Alex Beamish wrote: > Sigh .. one Google search later, > > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=17033 > > Check your development environment against the messages at the bottom > of this page and try again. > I'm not sure how to do that. I don't know exactly what "development environment" means. I don't know how to "check" a development environment, and I don't know which page you're referring to. There are several posts at your link and two of the posts contain long outputs. Can you give me a command to run to try what you suggest? Thanks for your help so far, by the way. I hope I'm coming across as ignorant (don't know) but not an idiot (won't try). Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 15:05:45 2008 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:05:45 -0400 Subject: home energy calculation software Message-ID: <491f66a50808280805u1ef9643bj8dacfd198720b8b2@mail.gmail.com> Seeing as we have a piano tuning thread I figured this couldn't hurt. I'm looking for energy calculation software for calculating furnace requirements. Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 15:14:41 2008 From: daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Daniel Hedlund) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:14:41 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: <48B6BB45.4030600-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <48A31E4C.3060403@chrisaitken.net> <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> <20080828044035.GA8840@low-shang.homelinux.com> <48B69E0A.3090509@chrisaitken.net> <48B6BB45.4030600@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > root at cpc:/home/chris/piano-1.1# make install > source='main.c' object='main.o' libtool=no \ > depfile='.deps/main.Po' tmpdepfile='.deps/main.TPo' \ > depmode=gcc3 /bin/bash ./depcomp \ > gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I. -g -O2 -c `test -f 'main.c' || echo > './'`main.c > In file included from main.c:28: > term.h:25:20: error: curses.h: No such file or directory > main.c:29:21: error: ncurses.h: No such file or directory > make: *** [main.o] Error 1 > root at cpc:/home/chris/piano-1.1# Progress. However, it appears that you're going to need to install some more development libraries (possibly a lot) to resolve all the missing header issues you'll come across during the compile. For the immediate header issues mentioned above, try the following: sudo apt-get install libncurses-dev Cheers, Daniel Hedlund daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 15:28:15 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:28:15 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: References: <48A31E4C.3060403@chrisaitken.net> <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> <20080828044035.GA8840@low-shang.homelinux.com> <48B69E0A.3090509@chrisaitken.net> <48B6BB45.4030600@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <48B6C40F.2060502@chrisaitken.net> Daniel Hedlund wrote: > On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Mr Chris Aitken > > wrote: > > root at cpc:/home/chris/piano-1.1# make install > source='main.c' object='main.o' libtool=no \ > depfile='.deps/main.Po' tmpdepfile='.deps/main.TPo' \ > depmode=gcc3 /bin/bash ./depcomp \ > gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I. -g -O2 -c `test -f 'main.c' > || echo './'`main.c > In file included from main.c:28: > term.h:25:20: error: curses.h: No such file or directory > main.c:29:21: error: ncurses.h: No such file or directory > make: *** [main.o] Error 1 > root at cpc:/home/chris/piano-1.1# > > > Progress. However, it appears that you're going to need to install > some more development libraries (possibly a lot) to resolve all the > missing header issues you'll come across during the compile. For the > immediate header issues mentioned above, try the following: > > sudo apt-get install libncurses-dev Okay, I installed that and then ran the piano installation again. It worked (!) though the command (piano-h'!) for getting the piano help (which I will /definitely/ need as this is not a gui app) just gives me an arrow (>) prompt which I have no idea what to do with... Chris > > > Cheers, > > Daniel Hedlund > daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 15:37:00 2008 From: daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Daniel Hedlund) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:37:00 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: <48B6C40F.2060502-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <48A31E4C.3060403@chrisaitken.net> <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> <20080828044035.GA8840@low-shang.homelinux.com> <48B69E0A.3090509@chrisaitken.net> <48B6BB45.4030600@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C40F.2060502@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > Okay, I installed that and then ran the piano installation again. It worked > (!) though the command (piano-h'!) for getting the piano help (which I will > /definitely/ need as this is not a gui app) just gives me an arrow (>) > prompt which I have no idea what to do with... I doubt there is a program called piano-h'!. Most likely that'd be a documentation error. You're getting the '>' symbol because it's waiting for you to close the single quote from the previous line. The correct command is probably something like: piano -h Cheers, Daniel Hedlund daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 15:43:14 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:43:14 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: References: <48A31E4C.3060403@chrisaitken.net> <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> <20080828044035.GA8840@low-shang.homelinux.com> <48B69E0A.3090509@chrisaitken.net> <48B6BB45.4030600@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C40F.2060502@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <48B6C792.2020507@chrisaitken.net> Daniel Hedlund wrote: > On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Mr Chris Aitken > > wrote: > > Okay, I installed that and then ran the piano installation again. > It worked (!) though the command (piano-h'!) for getting the piano > help (which I will /definitely/ need as this is not a gui app) > just gives me an arrow (>) prompt which I have no idea what to do > with... > > > I doubt there is a program called piano-h'!. Most likely that'd be a > documentation error. You're getting the '>' symbol because it's > waiting for you to close the single quote from the previous line. The > correct command is probably something like: > piano -h Yeah, I actually already tried that and other things: chris at cpc:~$ piano -h chris at cpc:~$ piano --help chris at cpc:~$ piano chris at cpc:~$ cd piano-1.1 chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ piano -h chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ piano --help chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ piano -h' > chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ piano -h'!' chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ > > Cheers, > > Daniel Hedlund > daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 15:52:17 2008 From: daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Daniel Hedlund) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:52:17 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: <48B6C792.2020507-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <48A31E4C.3060403@chrisaitken.net> <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> <20080828044035.GA8840@low-shang.homelinux.com> <48B69E0A.3090509@chrisaitken.net> <48B6BB45.4030600@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C40F.2060502@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C792.2020507@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: > Yeah, I actually already tried that and other things: > > chris at cpc:~$ piano -h > chris at cpc:~$ piano --help > chris at cpc:~$ piano > chris at cpc:~$ cd piano-1.1 > chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ piano -h > chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ piano --help > chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ piano -h' > > > chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ piano -h'!' > chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ The '-h' command argument is probably broken (file a bug?). The help/usage info as pulled directly from the source code: char usage_str[] = "tuning / frequency measuring tool by G?nther Montag Safaridoktor-Crc3fnV8OO0Aey3BTtE3dg at public.gmane.org\n" "* * * Options: * * *\n" " -b bias: numeric <0.9 ... 1.1> or Hz deviation from a (440 Hz) <-44...+44>\n" " (which is useful for old pianos which are often tuned lower !)\n" " -f fine tune a given frequency (enter center frequency 55 - 22000 Hz)\n" " -n note (with -o)\n" " -o octave <-1 ...6> \n" " -s soundcard samplerate correction factor <0.9 ... 1.1> \n" " -v verbose debug output, -h help\n" "If another sound-device than /dev/dsp, give it as last argument.\n" "Default: auto-detect note and auto-switch to fine tune and measure.\n" "more help: see `man piano`"; If you can't get the above working, their TODO files suggests to try out one of the following graphic-based applications: * accordeur * ktune Cheers, Daniel Hedlund daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 16:02:38 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:02:38 -0400 Subject: how to tell which process is accessing my disk? In-Reply-To: <20080827132238.GM12475-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1219797557.6958.10.camel@localhost> <20080827132238.GM12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0808280902lc17e327rd7372c5d780ba309@mail.gmail.com> Cool. I've been working with BSD servers more than Linux lately. I've found many irritating inconstancies about how commands work, generally stuff that doesn't work in BSD the same was a linux (missing flags, etc). But one that that BSD *does* have is IO usage in top (and the ever-useful systat command). In Linux, pressing "m" in Top switches the memory usage bar on and off. In BSD is switches between CPU and IO modes... very nice :-) I'll have to try "iotop" in 'nix though. Disk IO is often a worse culprit for crappy performance than CPU usage (and can contribute to issues that appear CPU-related as well). On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 9:22 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 08:39:17PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: >> i have a vague feeling i've sent this query out before, but i can't find >> a record of it. is there a tool that lets me see what process is >> accessing the disk? i just had a half-hour period where i couldn't use >> my computer at ll because trackerd was monopolizing the disk. i'd like >> to be able to fire up a command-line tool that will tell me what's going >> on in such cases. > > # apt-cache show iotop > Package: iotop > Priority: optional > Section: admin > Installed-Size: 88 > Maintainer: Paul Wise > Architecture: all > Version: 0.2-2 > Depends: python (>= 2.5), python-support (>= 0.7.1) > Filename: pool/main/i/iotop/iotop_0.2-2_all.deb > Size: 12658 > MD5sum: c6858d7ae3ee179b26d509118951e457 > SHA1: 17c806efab5b9aedf791e8decd36b933a41ce362 > SHA256: 801c113b0166d6518e67dba2c4aab14ea0a9274097e90e7c1f9ca26e43d3edb5 > Description: simple top-like I/O monitor > iotop does for I/O usage what top(1) does for CPU usage. It watches I/O > usage information output by the Linux kernel (requires 2.6.20 or later) > and displays a table of current I/O usage by processes on the system. > Handy for answering the question "Why is my disk churning so much?". > Homepage: http://guichaz.free.fr/iotop/ > Tag: admin::monitoring > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 16:04:28 2008 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:04:28 -0400 Subject: Acanac Offers "Free Online PC" Message-ID: <48B6CC8C.2010200@utoronto.ca> Just a heads up to let you know that Acanac, my ISP provider, offers a free user account to all their ADSL clients. I was just testing it today with the nx client they provide and I was amazed at how snappy the system was. I got a full KDE desktop on top of CentOS 5. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 16:15:02 2008 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:15:02 -0400 Subject: Acanac Offers "Free Online PC" In-Reply-To: <48B6CC8C.2010200-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <48B6CC8C.2010200@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <48B6CF06.7030100@utoronto.ca> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Just a heads up to let you know that Acanac, my ISP provider, offers a > free user account to all their ADSL clients. > > I was just testing it today with the nx client they provide and I was > amazed at how snappy the system was. I got a full KDE desktop on top of > CentOS 5. I tested this on my PowerBook G4. They also offer nx clients for Windows and Linux. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 16:15:37 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:15:37 -0400 Subject: home energy calculation software In-Reply-To: <491f66a50808280805u1ef9643bj8dacfd198720b8b2-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <491f66a50808280805u1ef9643bj8dacfd198720b8b2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420808280915o2a0a8452ue465f0821def9a33@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 11:05 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > I'm looking for energy calculation software for calculating furnace > requirements. You might find something on the web provided by the Canadian government. When I bought a central air conditioner this spring, somewhere on the Government of Canada's web site I found a PDF document that helped me figure out the "cooling load" in my house, which lead directly to a size recommendation for the unit. It was tedious work running around measuring all my windows and doorways, but it made me a much more confident consumer. If you find Google doesn't turn up any Government-provided information, you could also try 1-800-O CANADA (as in our anthem, not zero Canada). It's a free hot-line available something like 8am-8pm staffed by real people that will help you answer just about any question. I've used them for a number of things in the past and always been really happy with the results. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 16:23:48 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:23:48 -0400 Subject: Acanac Offers "Free Online PC" In-Reply-To: <48B6CC8C.2010200-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <48B6CC8C.2010200@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <48B6D114.5010207@rogers.com> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Just a heads up to let you know that Acanac, my ISP provider, offers a > free user account to all their ADSL clients. > > I was just testing it today with the nx client they provide and I was > amazed at how snappy the system was. I got a full KDE desktop on top > of CentOS 5. > What is an "nx client"? -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 16:41:19 2008 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:41:19 -0400 Subject: Acanac Offers "Free Online PC" In-Reply-To: <48B6D114.5010207-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48B6CC8C.2010200@utoronto.ca> <48B6D114.5010207@rogers.com> Message-ID: <48B6D52F.3090108@utoronto.ca> James Knott wrote: > What is an "nx client"? http://www.nomachine.com/documents/getting-started.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 16:52:33 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:52:33 -0400 Subject: AS/400 How does it look? In-Reply-To: References: <1219861016.5955.4.camel@jaguar-hardy> <1219928852.5971.18.camel@jaguar-hardy> Message-ID: <1219942353.5971.114.camel@jaguar-hardy> On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 09:33 -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Terrence Enger wrote: > > On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 02:37 +0300, William Muriithi wrote: > >> Terry, > >> > >> Many thanks for your explanation. I am now more knowledgeable on > >> AS/400 platform. You really did a good job and I noticed it triggered > >> some serious conversation over there. It did even get off topic and > >> become car technology discussion. Noticed a lot of people there still > >> think a solid car is safe. Someone corrected them very well, an easily > >> collapsible car is far much safe. > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> William > > > > William, > > > > I am really surprised by the level of interest over there. > > > > The self-sacrificing car seems like it should give some lesson to us in > > computing, but I am stuck trying to figure out what that lesson might > > be. > > It's pretty clear: You need to be sure to solve the *right* problem. > > At first glance, having the car survive the crash *seems* like the > right idea; if it's not too badly damaged, that seems an obviously > good thing, right? > > Unfortunately, its survivability distracts people from the *real* > goal, which is to preserve the lives of the passengers. The closest parallel I can think of here is a programming practice which really bugs me. It is somewhat common for a program to catch run-time errors and eat or mangle the diagnostic information. I suppose the programmers do this in aid of user-friendliness or something. My own preference goes to the opposite extreme: upon occurrence of a run-time error, halt. Halt hard. Right now! And be in the user's face about it, too. I have even been known to override a system message definition to disallow the carry-on response. When the program must catch (what the system deems to be) an error, catch the smallest reasonably catachable set of errors; hmm, sometimes go beyond what comes easily. I hate to brag, but my users end up seeing very few system messages. ( Of course, there are lots of times when something that the system calls an error is to the program a perfectly normal situation. And there are times when an error condition really is an error, but it is a common condition which for which the application can give a better message than the system can. These are not what I am talking about. ) Still, the automotive parallel is not very close. > > I browsed the thread; certainly some interesting points were made. > Everyone didn't agree, but that's a good sign of there being at least > some diversity in the group :-). > > Something I'd be interested in hearing more about is the "jobs" > concept. A job tends to cover a significant amount of work. For example, an interactive job typically persists from arrival in the morning until going home at night. Or maybe just until the user goes out to lunch. At an installation I recently worked at, typical turnaround for a batch job was between one and two seconds, but one batch job commonly ran for a week at a time. Compared to a task in Linux, a job is definitely a heavy-weight item, expensive to create and expensive to destroy. Within the POSIX environment, some tasks are implemented as jobs, leading to exactly the serious performance hit that you would expect. There are compensations. It is easy to start and end background jobs. Interprocess communication is efficient, and it is--so far as I can tell from my limited experience with Linux--easier to program. One simply gets out of the habit of running a lot of jobs. Then, with there being fewer jobs on the system, the job becomes a quite handy unit of work to track or manipulate. > To be sure, the usual Unix notion of "oh, just run cron" is > severely deficient. It is unfortunate that there hasn't been an > outgrowth of free software alternatives to cron that are fundamentally > better. > > I have asked about this sort of thing before, both on this forum, and > elsewhere; here's some summary of my thoughts... > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-admin/2007-07/msg00034.php There is an awful lot there, more than I am prepared to read now. Here is what I can say, just off the top of my head. The system i lets you define as many job queues as you find useful. A queue may be restricted to one job at a time, or it may run several jobs at once. (Well, actually, each job queue is a priority queue, and you can specify the maximum number of executing jobs per priority. But that is TMI, so I didn't write it, okay?) Job queues can be held or released individually or in groups. In my own programming, I have never needed more than a small part of the available functionality. The system includes a basic job scheduler. Add-on products are available for prices from four digits on up. I have never had any excuse to look very far into the "on-up", but some of these products claim to offer complete lights-out operation. Myself, I cannot imagine how to remove a backup tape for transmission off-site without turning on a light in the computer room, but that is what they claim . The basic scheduler can schedule a job for a specific date and time or for repeated execution on particular days of the week or of the month, with the possible exception of a list of particular dates. The scheduler lacks any concept of a collection of jobs, leading to ... (*) There is a lot of entries on the scheduler. Very simple programs of the form call step1 call step2 call step3 help quite a bit, but the nuisance remains. (*) Maintenance of the entries is tedious and error prone. For production jobs, I limit how often I make changes (this part comes quite naturally), and I have a customer person check each action. (*) The scheduler knows nothing about dependencies between jobs. In practice, I have not found much difficulty here. For example, I want day-end complete before month-end starts, so I send them to the same one-job-at-time job queue. Still, I can imagine that even a slightly more complicated environment would require more control and that that control would most economically be provided by an add-on product. Cheers, Terry. > > I'd be interested in hearing what AS/400 (or whatever it's sold as > this week :-)) has as its "basic concept." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 17:06:41 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:06:41 -0400 Subject: AS/400 How does it look? In-Reply-To: <1219942353.5971.114.camel@jaguar-hardy> References: <1219861016.5955.4.camel@jaguar-hardy> <1219928852.5971.18.camel@jaguar-hardy> <1219942353.5971.114.camel@jaguar-hardy> Message-ID: <48B6DB21.2020302@dinamis.com> Terrence Enger wrote: [snip] > It is somewhat common for a program to catch run-time errors and eat or > mangle the diagnostic information. I suppose the programmers do this in > aid of user-friendliness or something. > > My own preference goes to the opposite extreme: upon occurrence of a > run-time error, halt. Halt hard. Right now! And be in the user's face > about it, too. [snip] Or, you could just slap a permanent "Beta" label on your application and not worry about all that fancy exception handling. You'd be Web 2.0 compliant! :) -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 17:06:31 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:06:31 -0400 Subject: Philips DVP 59XX DVD In-Reply-To: <48B6389B.80703-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <48B6389B.80703@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <20080828170631.GO12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 01:33:15AM -0400, teddymills wrote: > There are a number of Philips DVP based DVDs. There are quite > inexpensive. I paid $40. > > TLUG members advised me to make sure it had DIVX ULTRA, and a USB > connector. > I found out later my model only has USB 1.1. Nevertheless, USB .1.1 is > just fine for playing xvid. > The picture is amazing. In fact almost indistinguishable from DVDs 99% > of the time. > > The USB seems to support only VFAT filesystems. > I sliced up a large drive into multiple partitions, but I can only get > it to use the first partition. > > VFATs max size is 32GB and a max file of 4GB (check wikipedia vfat for > extra details) > However most xvid files are under 1GB. Wrong. FAT32's maximum size is huge. The maximum size windows will format is 32GB, but windows will use larger ones. Linux's mkdosfs -F 32, will create larger ones and most systems that support FAT32 (if not all) should work fine with it. So just don't try to set it up using windows and you will have no problem making a larger FAT32 partition. VFAT is not a filesystem, it is an extension to FAT-12,16,32 to allow long filenames by abusing previously invalid attribute combinations. Max file size does sound right at 4GB though. So some large videos could need chopping although with DIVX compression it would have to be a very long video to be that big. I normally have seen about 350MB/1hour tv show, so about 45 minutes. That makes about 2hours in 1GB, so 8hours in 4GB. HD would be different, but I doubt your device does HD. > So I found a 30GB IDE drive and put it into a cheap external USB case. > Every once in a while I hookup that USB drive to the computer and move > more data at USB2 speeds. > > This is a very cool solution. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 17:09:39 2008 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:09:39 -0400 Subject: home energy calculation software In-Reply-To: <7ac602420808280915o2a0a8452ue465f0821def9a33-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <491f66a50808280805u1ef9643bj8dacfd198720b8b2@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420808280915o2a0a8452ue465f0821def9a33@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <491f66a50808281009j2e4b802k587cbf14caa515ba@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Ian Petersen wrote: > On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 11:05 AM, Dave Cramer > wrote: > > I'm looking for energy calculation software for calculating furnace > > requirements. > > You might find something on the web provided by the Canadian > government. When I bought a central air conditioner this spring, > somewhere on the Government of Canada's web site I found a PDF > document that helped me figure out the "cooling load" in my house, > which lead directly to a size recommendation for the unit. It was > tedious work running around measuring all my windows and doorways, but > it made me a much more confident consumer. > > If you find Google doesn't turn up any Government-provided > information, you could also try 1-800-O CANADA (as in our anthem, not > zero Canada). It's a free hot-line available something like 8am-8pm > staffed by real people that will help you answer just about any > question. I've used them for a number of things in the past and > always been really happy with the results. > Well, I'm looking to either write or extend some existing open source app to do energy calculations for a geothermal company Dave > > Ian > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 17:29:59 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:29:59 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: <48B6C792.2020507-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> <20080828044035.GA8840@low-shang.homelinux.com> <48B69E0A.3090509@chrisaitken.net> <48B6BB45.4030600@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C40F.2060502@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C792.2020507@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080828172959.GP12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 11:43:14AM -0400, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > Yeah, I actually already tried that and other things: > > chris at cpc:~$ piano -h > chris at cpc:~$ piano --help > chris at cpc:~$ piano > chris at cpc:~$ cd piano-1.1 > chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ piano -h > chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ piano --help > chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ piano -h' > > > chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ piano -h'!' > chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ Try: ~/piano-1.1/piano -h or: cd puano-1.1; ./piano -h The current directory is NOT in the PATH on any sane system, so you have to specify the path explicitly to run any program not in the PATH. -- Len SOrensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 17:34:40 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:34:40 -0400 Subject: AS/400 How does it look? In-Reply-To: <48B6DB21.2020302-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1219861016.5955.4.camel@jaguar-hardy> <1219928852.5971.18.camel@jaguar-hardy> <1219942353.5971.114.camel@jaguar-hardy> <48B6DB21.2020302@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <1219944880.5971.139.camel@jaguar-hardy> On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 13:06 -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Terrence Enger wrote: > [snip] > > It is somewhat common for a program to catch run-time errors and eat or > > mangle the diagnostic information. I suppose the programmers do this in > > aid of user-friendliness or something. > > > > My own preference goes to the opposite extreme: upon occurrence of a > > run-time error, halt. Halt hard. Right now! And be in the user's face > > about it, too. > [snip] > > Or, you could just slap a permanent "Beta" label on your application and > not worry about all that fancy exception handling. You'd be Web 2.0 > compliant! :) And I would probably be able to find work. If only I could bring myself to do things like that . Actually, I program *much less* exception handling than is common. Better, I think, to put the effort on not provoking exceptions in the first place. Of course, I work in an environment where the default exception handling is pretty good. ( Well, obviously, there are--pardon the puns--exceptions. Sometimes a program needs to verify the absence of an object using a command which verifies the *presence* of the object. It is entirely too bad that the mechanism is the same and it is still called *exception handling". ) Thank you for your comment. Terry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 18:04:15 2008 From: sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Steve Harvey) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:04:15 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: <20080828172959.GP12475-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> <20080828044035.GA8840@low-shang.homelinux.com> <48B69E0A.3090509@chrisaitken.net> <48B6BB45.4030600@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C40F.2060502@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C792.2020507@chrisaitken.net> <20080828172959.GP12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080828180415.GK72792@shell.vex.net> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 01:29:59PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 11:43:14AM -0400, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > > Yeah, I actually already tried that and other things: > > > > chris at cpc:~$ piano -h > > chris at cpc:~$ piano --help > > chris at cpc:~$ piano > > chris at cpc:~$ cd piano-1.1 > > chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ piano -h > > chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ piano --help > > chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ piano -h' > > > > > chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ piano -h'!' > > chris at cpc:~/piano-1.1$ > > Try: ~/piano-1.1/piano -h > or: cd puano-1.1; ./piano -h > > The current directory is NOT in the PATH on any sane system, so you have > to specify the path explicitly to run any program not in the PATH. > Try running the program from a text console. The help screen and diagnostics will remain visible after program termination unlike running it in an xterm where the the curses library will restore the previous window contents. If you run the program in a sufficiently slow xterm setup, you will see the window contents flash. -sgh -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 18:16:04 2008 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:16:04 -0400 Subject: how to tell which process is accessing my disk? In-Reply-To: <20080827122906.GA3296-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1219797557.6958.10.camel@localhost> <20080827122906.GA3296@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1219947364.6958.49.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2008-08-27 at 08:29 -0400, Andrew Overholt wrote: > Hi, > > * Matt Price [2008-08-26 20:47]: > > > > is there a tool that lets me see what process is accessing the disk? > > Try iotop. > thanks to andrew and lennart for this! it seems great, just what i needed. fyi, for the other benighted ubuntu users out there, there is a ppa repo for iotop: deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/tormodvolden/ubuntu hardy main it won't be in main till intrepid comes out. matt > Andrew > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 18:26:05 2008 From: daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Daniel Hedlund) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:26:05 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: <20080828180415.GK72792-bEteefDXIgtmcu3hnIyYJQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> <48B69E0A.3090509@chrisaitken.net> <48B6BB45.4030600@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C40F.2060502@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C792.2020507@chrisaitken.net> <20080828172959.GP12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080828180415.GK72792@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 2:04 PM, Steve Harvey wrote: > Try running the program from a text console. The help screen and > diagnostics will remain visible after program termination unlike running > it in an xterm where the the curses library will restore the previous > window contents. If you run the program in a sufficiently slow xterm > setup, you will see the window contents flash. I ran piano myself earlier with the '-h' command argument and I can confirm that the program just terminates without any usage information. I looked at the source and I think there's a bug in the software that's preventing any of the command arguments from being parsed, or perhaps just that command argument; I didn't spend more than a few seconds looking so I can't say for sure. If you don't pass in any arguments then a text GUI will start but all keyboard shortcuts such as the escape key for quitting ("Quit: ") do not function. If Chris can't figure out how to get this working straight away, I recommend trying an older version or some alternative tuning software mentioned in my previous email. Perhaps either accordeur or ktune has a pre-compiled package available. Cheers, Daniel Hedlund daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 18:30:46 2008 From: daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Daniel Hedlund) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:30:46 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: References: <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> <48B6BB45.4030600@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C40F.2060502@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C792.2020507@chrisaitken.net> <20080828172959.GP12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080828180415.GK72792@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Daniel Hedlund wrote: > On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 2:04 PM, Steve Harvey wrote: >> Try running the program from a text console. The help screen and >> diagnostics will remain visible after program termination unlike running >> it in an xterm where the the curses library will restore the previous >> window contents. If you run the program in a sufficiently slow xterm >> setup, you will see the window contents flash. > > I ran piano myself earlier with the '-h' command argument and I can > confirm that the program just terminates without any usage > information. I looked at the source and I think there's a bug in the > software that's preventing any of the command arguments from being > parsed, or perhaps just that command argument; I didn't spend more > than a few seconds looking so I can't say for sure. If you don't pass > in any arguments then a text GUI will start but all keyboard shortcuts > such as the escape key for quitting ("Quit: ") do not function. > If Chris can't figure out how to get this working straight away, I > recommend trying an older version or some alternative tuning software > mentioned in my previous email. Perhaps either accordeur or ktune has > a pre-compiled package available. I eat my words in regard to command parsing. Steve was right in that if you try a regular console instead of an xterm that it will show the help output. Chris, Try switching to a regular console with the following key sequence, log in and then try running piano from there: ++1 I still couldn't get the keyboard shortcuts to give any visual feedback however. Cheers, Daniel Hedlund daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 18:32:43 2008 From: daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Daniel Hedlund) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:32:43 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: References: <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> <48B6BB45.4030600@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C40F.2060502@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C792.2020507@chrisaitken.net> <20080828172959.GP12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080828180415.GK72792@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: > ++1 Sorry for the mass emails... :( ++ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david-KgjyJOZJJiMsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 18:36:22 2008 From: david-KgjyJOZJJiMsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (David Payne) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:36:22 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: References: <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> <48B6BB45.4030600@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C40F.2060502@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C792.2020507@chrisaitken.net> <20080828172959.GP12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080828180415.GK72792@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: <1219948582.8823.8.camel@majorpayne> On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 14:32 -0400, Daniel Hedlund wrote: > > ++1 > > Sorry for the mass emails... :( > > ++ Hi, And also good to know: ++ (normally) to get back to GUI. David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 19:01:04 2008 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: <1219948582.8823.8.camel@majorpayne> References: <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> <48B6BB45.4030600@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C40F.2060502@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C792.2020507@chrisaitken.net> <20080828172959.GP12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080828180415.GK72792@shell.vex.net> <1219948582.8823.8.camel@majorpayne> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, David Payne wrote: > On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 14:32 -0400, Daniel Hedlund wrote: >>> ++1 >> >> Sorry for the mass emails... :( >> >> ++ > > Hi, > > And also good to know: ++ (normally) to get back to GUI. All you need to get back is +. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 05:33:15 2008 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 01:33:15 -0400 Subject: Philips DVP 59XX DVD Message-ID: <48B6389B.80703@tmis.ca> There are a number of Philips DVP based DVDs. There are quite inexpensive. I paid $40. TLUG members advised me to make sure it had DIVX ULTRA, and a USB connector. I found out later my model only has USB 1.1. Nevertheless, USB .1.1 is just fine for playing xvid. The picture is amazing. In fact almost indistinguishable from DVDs 99% of the time. The USB seems to support only VFAT filesystems. I sliced up a large drive into multiple partitions, but I can only get it to use the first partition. VFATs max size is 32GB and a max file of 4GB (check wikipedia vfat for extra details) However most xvid files are under 1GB. So I found a 30GB IDE drive and put it into a cheap external USB case. Every once in a while I hookup that USB drive to the computer and move more data at USB2 speeds. This is a very cool solution. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlow-AZu5J0u3PMt/LtIqEKMDMfN90d+awN/n at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 04:40:35 2008 From: tlow-AZu5J0u3PMt/LtIqEKMDMfN90d+awN/n at public.gmane.org (Tom Low-Shang) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 00:40:35 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: <48B5E026.5000606-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <48A31E4C.3060403@chrisaitken.net> <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080828044035.GA8840@low-shang.homelinux.com> On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 07:15:50PM -0400, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: >> > Okay, 'm trying to install this. What Am I doing wrong? > > chris at cpc:/tmp$ tar -zxvf piano-1.1.tar.gz Try the whole exercise in your home directory. Maybe /tmp is mounted noexec, so the test programs that configure creates, cannot run. -- Tom Low-Shang JID tlow-/eSpBmjxGS4dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 11:25:59 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:25:59 -0400 Subject: Quebec gov't sued for buying Microsoft In-Reply-To: <20080827224101.29792de9-lQMCrfjKGrJ3Ex1Y5TzZUg@public.gmane.org> References: <48B60C77.6070908@telly.org> <20080827224101.29792de9@david.chipman> Message-ID: <48B68B47.7060203@rogers.com> David C. Chipman wrote: > On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:24:55 -0400 > Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > >> http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/08/27/tech-quebec.html >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> > > Hi Evan, > > Now I'm waiting for someone to go after Ontario! > A few years ago, there was an announcement that provincially funded schools would be using StarOffice. Has that happened? http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/business/soa/StarOffice-scores-Canadian-win/0,139023166,139149910,00.htm -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 23:57:56 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:57:56 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: References: <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> <48B6BB45.4030600@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C40F.2060502@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C792.2020507@chrisaitken.net> <20080828172959.GP12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080828180415.GK72792@shell.vex.net> <1219948582.8823.8.camel@majorpayne> Message-ID: <48B73B84.1080406@chrisaitken.net> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, David Payne wrote: > >> On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 14:32 -0400, Daniel Hedlund wrote: >>>> ++1 >>> >>> Sorry for the mass emails... :( >>> >>> ++ >> >> Hi, >> >> And also good to know: ++ (normally) to get back to GUI. > > All you need to get back is +. Okay, the above all worked. It was a tiny file for all that work. And it's last line is: more help: see 'manpiano' :) I'll now wait to pick up my new Acer notebook (dual-boot Ubuntu 8.04 / XP Home), I'll install piano and give it a try. I have a feeling I'll end up getting CyberTuner anyway because of it's limitless customizable 'stretch tuning' capabilities. I told the piano tuner that I'm taking over from that CyberTuner is 1200 bucks US and he didn't even flinch. He said it was 1800 bucks when he bought it and he was never sorry he did. Says it's a truly awesome app. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 02:51:18 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:51:18 -0400 Subject: AS/400 How does it look? In-Reply-To: <1219942353.5971.114.camel@jaguar-hardy> References: <1219861016.5955.4.camel@jaguar-hardy> <1219928852.5971.18.camel@jaguar-hardy> <1219942353.5971.114.camel@jaguar-hardy> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 12:52 PM, Terrence Enger wrote: >> Unfortunately, its survivability distracts people from the *real* >> goal, which is to preserve the lives of the passengers. > > The closest parallel I can think of here is a programming practice which > really bugs me. > > It is somewhat common for a program to catch run-time errors and eat or > mangle the diagnostic information. I suppose the programmers do this in > aid of user-friendliness or something. > > My own preference goes to the opposite extreme: upon occurrence of a > run-time error, halt. Halt hard. Right now! And be in the user's face > about it, too. I have even been known to override a system message > definition to disallow the carry-on response. When the program must > catch (what the system deems to be) an error, catch the smallest > reasonably catachable set of errors; hmm, sometimes go beyond what comes > easily. I hate to brag, but my users end up seeing very few system > messages. There is a problem to be had with that; if something is to be considered a "service," it may be extremely unpalatable to "shut down hard," almost irrespective of the error condition. There is a necessary difference of perspective there, which may be part of our respective thinking processes: - I tend to think, these days, in something of a "server" perspective, where it is considered a catastrophe for the system not to be responding. - If a lot of the processes you work on are "batch"-oriented, then it would not be surprising for that to inform your perspective, and I'd think the "terminate early and often" approach would seem likely to be consistent with that perspective. I may be projecting, there; note that I don't think it's insulting to consider having these (or possibly other) variations in perspective. (Of course "Stupid Windoze Guy" *would* be an insulting view :-).) We work with complex systems, and it's like the blind men with the elephant; there *are* varying perspectives that are legitimate. Indeed, what with there being so many layers of software and hardware and chemistry and physics, I don't think anybody is likely to have a single "universal" perspective that covers it all. I just hope to have enough perspective to get some of the "standing on shoulders of giants" thing :-). > ( Of course, there are lots of times when something that the system > calls an error is to the program a perfectly normal situation. And > there are times when an error condition really is an error, but it is a > common condition which for which the application can give a better > message than the system can. These are not what I am talking about. ) > > Still, the automotive parallel is not very close. Automobiles operate via there being many explosive reactions taking place inside them each second. There is a risk of "explosive" parallels :-). >> I browsed the thread; certainly some interesting points were made. >> Everyone didn't agree, but that's a good sign of there being at least >> some diversity in the group :-). >> >> Something I'd be interested in hearing more about is the "jobs" >> concept. > > A job tends to cover a significant amount of work. For example, an > interactive job typically persists from arrival in the morning until > going home at night. Or maybe just until the user goes out to lunch. > At an installation I recently worked at, typical turnaround for a batch > job was between one and two seconds, but one batch job commonly ran for > a week at a time. > > Compared to a task in Linux, a job is definitely a heavy-weight item, > expensive to create and expensive to destroy. Within the POSIX > environment, some tasks are implemented as jobs, leading to exactly the > serious performance hit that you would expect. > > There are compensations. It is easy to start and end background jobs. > Interprocess communication is efficient, and it is--so far as I can tell > from my limited experience with Linux--easier to program. One simply > gets out of the habit of running a lot of jobs. Then, with there being > fewer jobs on the system, the job becomes a quite handy unit of work to > track or manipulate. I don't have much of a mental model what the "state" of a job, as you describe it, looks like; I suspect that would have a lot to do with how they work. >> To be sure, the usual Unix notion of "oh, just run cron" is >> severely deficient. It is unfortunate that there hasn't been an >> outgrowth of free software alternatives to cron that are fundamentally >> better. >> >> I have asked about this sort of thing before, both on this forum, and >> elsewhere; here's some summary of my thoughts... >> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-admin/2007-07/msg00034.php > > There is an awful lot there, more than I am prepared to read now. Here > is what I can say, just off the top of my head. > > The system i lets you define as many job queues as you find useful. A > queue may be restricted to one job at a time, or it may run several jobs > at once. (Well, actually, each job queue is a priority queue, and you > can specify the maximum number of executing jobs per priority. But that > is TMI, so I didn't write it, okay?) Job queues can be held or released > individually or in groups. In my own programming, I have never needed > more than a small part of the available functionality. > > The system includes a basic job scheduler. Add-on products are > available for prices from four digits on up. I have never had any > excuse to look very far into the "on-up", but some of these products > claim to offer complete lights-out operation. Myself, I cannot imagine > how to remove a backup tape for transmission off-site without turning on > a light in the computer room, but that is what they claim . > > The basic scheduler can schedule a job for a specific date and time or > for repeated execution on particular days of the week or of the month, > with the possible exception of a list of particular dates. The > scheduler lacks any concept of a collection of jobs, leading to ... > > (*) There is a lot of entries on the scheduler. Very simple programs of > the form > call step1 > call step2 > call step3 > help quite a bit, but the nuisance remains. > > (*) Maintenance of the entries is tedious and error prone. For > production jobs, I limit how often I make changes (this part comes quite > naturally), and I have a customer person check each action. > > (*) The scheduler knows nothing about dependencies between jobs. In > practice, I have not found much difficulty here. For example, I want > day-end complete before month-end starts, so I send them to the same > one-job-at-time job queue. Still, I can imagine that even a slightly > more complicated environment would require more control and that that > control would most economically be provided by an add-on product. I have heard fans of VMS speak glowingly of its ability to handle job scheduling. I noticed that one of the respondents on the other list described having DB2 available *everywhere* as one of the "great features" of the AS/400 platform; I could easily see ubiquity of fairly sophisticated job scheduling being of similar value. I'll observe that one of the things that was "super-popular" about QNX (an embedded Unix-like system) was its use of message passing (often known as message queuing) as a ubiquitous, powerful thing; queuing should appear pretty obviously similar to scheduling, so there are commonalities to be had. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 03:14:56 2008 From: echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:14:56 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: <48B73B84.1080406-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> <48B6BB45.4030600@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C40F.2060502@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C792.2020507@chrisaitken.net> <20080828172959.GP12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080828180415.GK72792@shell.vex.net> <1219948582.8823.8.camel@majorpayne> <48B73B84.1080406@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <48B769B0.70902@teksavvy.com> Stretch tuning is piano by piano and even player by player. > I have a feeling I'll end up getting CyberTuner anyway because of it's > limitless customizable 'stretch tuning' capabilities. I told the piano > tuner that I'm taking over from that CyberTuner is 1200 bucks US and he > didn't even flinch. He said it was 1800 bucks when he bought it and he > was never sorry he did. Says it's a truly awesome app. > > Chris > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- http://clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 15:49:27 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:49:27 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: <48B769B0.70902-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> <48B6BB45.4030600@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C40F.2060502@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C792.2020507@chrisaitken.net> <20080828172959.GP12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080828180415.GK72792@shell.vex.net> <1219948582.8823.8.camel@majorpayne> <48B73B84.1080406@chrisaitken.net> <48B769B0.70902@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <48B81A87.6050102@chrisaitken.net> Elliott Chapin wrote: > Stretch tuning is piano by piano and even player by player. Apparently that is where CT excels - it is endlessly customizable in the stretch tuning (and includes tons of presets by piano model), whereas, say, a piano tuning machine like the Petertson AutoStrobe 490ST is not. > >> I have a feeling I'll end up getting CyberTuner anyway because of >> it's limitless customizable 'stretch tuning' capabilities. I told >> the piano tuner that I'm taking over from that CyberTuner is 1200 >> bucks US and he didn't even flinch. He said it was 1800 bucks when he >> bought it and he was never sorry he did. Says it's a truly awesome app. >> >> Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 17:35:59 2008 From: echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:35:59 -0400 Subject: piano-tuning software In-Reply-To: <48B81A87.6050102-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <48B5E026.5000606@chrisaitken.net> <48B6BB45.4030600@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C40F.2060502@chrisaitken.net> <48B6C792.2020507@chrisaitken.net> <20080828172959.GP12475@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080828180415.GK72792@shell.vex.net> <1219948582.8823.8.camel@majorpayne> <48B73B84.1080406@chrisaitken.net> <48B769B0.70902@teksavvy.com> <48B81A87.6050102@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <48B8337F.4070501@teksavvy.com> I think you've missed my point; let me elaborate: Beyond, say, setting up CyberTuner according to pre-tuning consultation with the player there are questions such as: We have two of the same make/model/year - what are the strings like right now (usually different)? What are you going to do when all three strings of a single treble note are false with different internal beats (a quite common situation). And that's not all ... CyberTuner might have the best chance if you're tuning at the Ex or in a Legion hall on Sat. afternoon in a Legion Hall as I have had to do. Machines, s/w can speed things up, but even then there is no substitute for a good ear to vet the result. The best tuners can do fine with just a tuning fork, + "hammer"(wrench) and no felts or rubber wedges to dampen strings that aren't being worked on at the moment; and take away the hammers/dampers for good measure (it's called an "open tuning"). Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > Elliott Chapin wrote: >> Stretch tuning is piano by piano and even player by player. > > Apparently that is where CT excels - it is endlessly customizable in the > stretch tuning (and includes tons of presets by piano model), whereas, > say, a piano tuning machine like the Petertson AutoStrobe 490ST is not. > -- http://clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 20:57:02 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:57:02 -0400 Subject: how to tell which process is accessing my disk? In-Reply-To: <1219797557.6958.10.camel@localhost> References: <1219797557.6958.10.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808291357g6bfae0eal9f2f30de04074617@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 8:39 PM, Matt Price wrote: > i have a vague feeling i've sent this query out before, but i can't find > a record of it. is there a tool that lets me see what process is > accessing the disk? i just had a half-hour period where i couldn't use > my computer at ll because trackerd was monopolizing the disk. i'd like > to be able to fire up a command-line tool that will tell me what's going > on in such cases. In addition to the other tools listed there's also 'fuser' >From the man page: FUSER(1) User Commands FUSER(1) NAME fuser - identify processes using files or sockets SYNOPSIS fuser [-a|-s|-c] [-4|-6] [-n space ] [-k [-i] [-signal ] ] [-muvf] name ... fuser -l fuser -V DESCRIPTION fuser displays the PIDs of processes using the specified files or file systems. ... -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.psema4.com/blog/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 22:00:37 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:00:37 -0400 Subject: Quebec gov't sued for buying Microsoft In-Reply-To: <48B60C77.6070908-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <48B60C77.6070908@telly.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808291500q7acde7bdjcb7694f601cea89c@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 10:24 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/08/27/tech-quebec.html Wow - thanks for the heads-up. Some of the recent comments (like 204_4_life's comment about Linux use in the DND and in operational combat zones) are quite interesting. I'll be meeting with my MP in the near future and will bring this up. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.psema4.com/blog/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 22:06:26 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:06:26 -0400 Subject: AS/400 How does it look? In-Reply-To: <1219630906.6750.223.camel@jaguar-hardy> References: <1219615144.6750.136.camel@jaguar-hardy> <99a6c38f0808241726s732d8a33y92bb06200bd3c56c@mail.gmail.com> <1219630906.6750.223.camel@jaguar-hardy> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808291506s1a06841bv1f027a7e687320@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Terrence Enger wrote: > On Sun, 2008-08-24 at 20:26 -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 5:59 PM, Terrence Enger >> wrote:> >> [...]--pay no attention to the jeering from the >> > cheap seats--[...] >> >> Having been up for some 30 hours and in the face of other personal >> difficulties I'm going to limit my comments as follows: > > Scott, > > Go to bed. Do not even think of reading this until tomorrow. > > ... > > Uh uh. Bed I said! [...] Hunh? I wasn't sleeping! I was visualizing my goals! ;-) > I really hate to admit it, wanting so much to be useful and all, but > there are other sources around. > > (*) Seneca College offers courses. > > (*) The local user group, "Toronto Users Group for Power Systems" > holds about five general meetings a year. In those > meetings, you will get about ten presentations on topics of current > interest, with quality ranging from very good to very, very good indeed. > (I am not responsible for their web site. Absolutely not. That is my > story, and I am sticking to it. Okay, I looked it up; the office > telephone number is 905-607-2546.) > > (*) That same group runs an education conference each spring, two days > of engrossing presentations and commonly another day of hands-on > tutorials. I recommend it highly for anyone programming the platform or > responsible for managing an installation. I write this as one who goes > on my own dime. > > (*) midrange.com runs a bunch of mailing lists > . MIDRANGE-L, for general > technical discussion, is very active and informative. > > (*) Various installations share an AS/400 over the web. This is useful > for hacking around on things in the absence of a customer. > > (*) The web, of course, if it needs saying. Always the web. =) Thanks for the resources - when I get caught up on my email and a few copyright-related things I'll have to check some of this out. Cheers! -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.psema4.com/blog/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 22:37:03 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:37:03 -0400 Subject: Fair Use - RE: Some Thoughts on Copyright In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808291537y7239fbabn2dbd60c9e67428e6@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Mike Sillers wrote: > Fair use is an important point but where is the point at which it becomes > theft? One of the main points is credit. Another is fair compensation. I > think we would agree if someone copies something to give away or accepts > something copies to avoid paying, that could be considered theft. On the > other hand, what if the purpose is education as might be argued in the case > of a text book where the purpose may be considered altruistic yet is still > attempting to get something for sale without paying for it. Then of course, > there is the case of someone copying something for their own personal > profit. I would not mind my work being copied provided I was credited and > the work was not created as a saleable item without my consent. > > I am more concerned about powers given to corporate entities. I'm on that page too. But this... > Some of you may find the following article interesting: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/06/arts/design/06prin.html?_r=2&ref=todayspap > %20er&oref=slogin&oref=slogin Maybe there should be a "Hall of Mirrors" clause if Bill C-61 ends up being scrapped and reviewed in a new parliament. I can only admire & respect Jim Krantz's position and restraint. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.psema4.com/blog/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 23:24:05 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:24:05 -0400 Subject: AS/400 How does it look? In-Reply-To: References: <1219861016.5955.4.camel@jaguar-hardy> <1219928852.5971.18.camel@jaguar-hardy> <1219942353.5971.114.camel@jaguar-hardy> Message-ID: <1220052245.7243.49.camel@jaguar-hardy> On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 22:51 -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 12:52 PM, Terrence Enger > wrote: > >> Unfortunately, its survivability distracts people from the *real* > >> goal, which is to preserve the lives of the passengers. > > > > The closest parallel I can think of here is a programming practice which > > really bugs me. > > > > It is somewhat common for a program to catch run-time errors and eat or > > mangle the diagnostic information. I suppose the programmers do this in > > aid of user-friendliness or something. > > > > My own preference goes to the opposite extreme: upon occurrence of a > > run-time error, halt. Halt hard. Right now! And be in the user's face > > about it, too. I have even been known to override a system message > > definition to disallow the carry-on response. When the program must > > catch (what the system deems to be) an error, catch the smallest > > reasonably catachable set of errors; hmm, sometimes go beyond what comes > > easily. I hate to brag, but my users end up seeing very few system > > messages. > > There is a problem to be had with that; if something is to be > considered a "service," it may be extremely unpalatable to "shut down > hard," almost irrespective of the error condition. > > There is a necessary difference of perspective there, which may be > part of our respective thinking processes: Indeed. I was letting myself be too much influenced by my recent experience, which is with old code, which is where I tend to find the too-broad exception handling. > > - I tend to think, these days, in something of a "server" perspective, > where it is considered a catastrophe for the system not to be > responding. There are catastrophes and then there are castrophes. I see incorrect response and incorrect database updates as increasingly catastrophic beyond a mere failure to respond. Still, I have to agree with you. > > - If a lot of the processes you work on are "batch"-oriented, then it > would not be surprising for that to inform your perspective, and I'd > think the "terminate early and often" approach would seem likely to be > consistent with that perspective. Hmm, less a question of being batch-oriented or otherwise, I think, than it is a question of serving a well-defined set of users doing narrowly defined tasks. Things are, at some level, quite simple. > > I may be projecting, there; note that I don't think it's insulting to > consider having these (or possibly other) variations in perspective. > (Of course "Stupid Windoze Guy" *would* be an insulting view :-).) > > We work with complex systems, and it's like the blind men with the > elephant; there *are* varying perspectives that are legitimate. > Indeed, what with there being so many layers of software and hardware > and chemistry and physics, I don't think anybody is likely to have a > single "universal" perspective that covers it all. I just hope to > have enough perspective to get some of the "standing on shoulders of > giants" thing :-). Well said. > > > ( Of course, there are lots of times when something that the system > > calls an error is to the program a perfectly normal situation. And > > there are times when an error condition really is an error, but it is a > > common condition which for which the application can give a better > > message than the system can. These are not what I am talking about. ) > > > > Still, the automotive parallel is not very close. > > Automobiles operate via there being many explosive reactions taking > place inside them each second. There is a risk of "explosive" > parallels :-). Oh, my. A merely disgruntled customer can give me an entirely adequate level of stress. > > >> I browsed the thread; certainly some interesting points were made. > >> Everyone didn't agree, but that's a good sign of there being at least > >> some diversity in the group :-). > >> > >> Something I'd be interested in hearing more about is the "jobs" > >> concept. > > > > A job tends to cover a significant amount of work. For example, an > > interactive job typically persists from arrival in the morning until > > going home at night. Or maybe just until the user goes out to lunch. > > At an installation I recently worked at, typical turnaround for a batch > > job was between one and two seconds, but one batch job commonly ran for > > a week at a time. > > > > Compared to a task in Linux, a job is definitely a heavy-weight item, > > expensive to create and expensive to destroy. Within the POSIX > > environment, some tasks are implemented as jobs, leading to exactly the > > serious performance hit that you would expect. > > > > There are compensations. It is easy to start and end background jobs. > > Interprocess communication is efficient, and it is--so far as I can tell > > from my limited experience with Linux--easier to program. One simply > > gets out of the habit of running a lot of jobs. Then, with there being > > fewer jobs on the system, the job becomes a quite handy unit of work to > > track or manipulate. > > I don't have much of a mental model what the "state" of a job, as you > describe it, looks like; I suspect that would have a lot to do with > how they work. > > >> To be sure, the usual Unix notion of "oh, just run cron" is > >> severely deficient. It is unfortunate that there hasn't been an > >> outgrowth of free software alternatives to cron that are fundamentally > >> better. > >> > >> I have asked about this sort of thing before, both on this forum, and > >> elsewhere; here's some summary of my thoughts... > >> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-admin/2007-07/msg00034.php > > > > There is an awful lot there, more than I am prepared to read now. Here > > is what I can say, just off the top of my head. > > > > The system i lets you define as many job queues as you find useful. A > > queue may be restricted to one job at a time, or it may run several jobs > > at once. (Well, actually, each job queue is a priority queue, and you > > can specify the maximum number of executing jobs per priority. But that > > is TMI, so I didn't write it, okay?) Job queues can be held or released > > individually or in groups. In my own programming, I have never needed > > more than a small part of the available functionality. > > > > The system includes a basic job scheduler. Add-on products are > > available for prices from four digits on up. I have never had any > > excuse to look very far into the "on-up", but some of these products > > claim to offer complete lights-out operation. Myself, I cannot imagine > > how to remove a backup tape for transmission off-site without turning on > > a light in the computer room, but that is what they claim . > > > > The basic scheduler can schedule a job for a specific date and time or > > for repeated execution on particular days of the week or of the month, > > with the possible exception of a list of particular dates. The > > scheduler lacks any concept of a collection of jobs, leading to ... > > > > (*) There is a lot of entries on the scheduler. Very simple programs of > > the form > > call step1 > > call step2 > > call step3 > > help quite a bit, but the nuisance remains. > > > > (*) Maintenance of the entries is tedious and error prone. For > > production jobs, I limit how often I make changes (this part comes quite > > naturally), and I have a customer person check each action. > > > > (*) The scheduler knows nothing about dependencies between jobs. In > > practice, I have not found much difficulty here. For example, I want > > day-end complete before month-end starts, so I send them to the same > > one-job-at-time job queue. Still, I can imagine that even a slightly > > more complicated environment would require more control and that that > > control would most economically be provided by an add-on product. > > I have heard fans of VMS speak glowingly of its ability to handle job > scheduling. > > I noticed that one of the respondents on the other list described > having DB2 available *everywhere* as one of the "great features" of > the AS/400 platform; I could easily see ubiquity of fairly > sophisticated job scheduling being of similar value. Well, from past experience, I can tell you exactly how I would receive improved improved scheduling capability: (*) Ho hum. Well, it looks useful for a couple of things. (*) I visit old site which lacks the facility. (*) I realize that have grown into the habit of using it a *lot*. Moving forward is easy; going backward really hurts. > > I'll observe that one of the things that was "super-popular" about QNX > (an embedded Unix-like system) was its use of message passing (often > known as message queuing) as a ubiquitous, powerful thing; queuing > should appear pretty obviously similar to scheduling, so there are > commonalities to be had. QNX was the example O/S in a course I once took. I have never had a chance to use it in real life (let alone in real-time life ). One lesson in the course was the value of run-time assertions, and the way they can help a project reach completion. Hmm, I guess I have been using what I learned more than I have bothered to think about. Thank you, Christopher, for you thoughts. Terry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 15:14:09 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:14:09 -0400 Subject: gnash on ps3 Message-ID: <20080830111409.73b8cfd2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Hey all, Before I go joining _another_ mailing list or something... ;) I got gnash to install on my friend's PS3 (over SSH from my machine at work...cool!). I installed from bzr, so very up to date code. It built and installed fine, but no go from Youtube, just the message that 'your version of Firefox is too old or you have javascript disabled'. I discovered that, despite what it said in the README, there was no plugin installed in ~/.mozilla/firefox/plugins, so I created the dir myself and copied over libgnashplayer.la. Still nothing. Before I go bugging the fine people on the gnash mailing list, does anyone have some experience with gnash that would give me a clue here? Thanks! -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Leela: That aerosal head spray makes your antenna smell nice... Bender: Thank you. Leela: ...but it's doing long-term damage to the planet. Bender: So? It's not like it's the only one we've got. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 16:50:33 2008 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 12:50:33 -0400 Subject: Quebec gov't sued for buying Microsoft In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0808291500q7acde7bdjcb7694f601cea89c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <48B60C77.6070908@telly.org> <99a6c38f0808291500q7acde7bdjcb7694f601cea89c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080830165033.GA16577@watson-wilson.ca> My experience with gov (ON) IT is that they buy mostly 'off the shelf' products. Solaris, Oracle, NetIQ, OpenView, Informatica, Websphere, Windows and occasionally Red Hat. -- Neil Watson System Administrator for hire http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 17:32:15 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:32:15 -0400 Subject: Rogers redirect issue; Call for help Message-ID: <48B9841F.2050002@alteeve.com> Hi all, Those of you on Rogers, can you try accessing my website and tell me if you succeed or not? David Collier-Brown noticed that he can't, and is helping me trace down the exact problem, but it looks like Rogers in resolving my domain to their own IP address. http://wiki.tle-bu.org/index.php/D-Bus_Tutorial_and_References This should resolve to 192.139.81.119 and be a mediawiki page with my D-Bus notes. If you get anything else, can you please reply with a traceroute, the error you got and anything you may think could help. Thanks! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 17:54:28 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:54:28 -0400 Subject: Rogers redirect issue; Call for help In-Reply-To: <48B9841F.2050002-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48B9841F.2050002@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420808301054t1fee28c5jebbc220f8106bf1f@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > http://wiki.tle-bu.org/index.php/D-Bus_Tutorial_and_References > > This should resolve to 192.139.81.119 and be a mediawiki page with my D-Bus > notes. If you get anything else, can you please reply with a traceroute, the > error you got and anything you may think could help. I'm a Rogers customer and I got your (excellent) DBus tutorial. I tried getting a traceroute, but everything after my router is just asterisks. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 18:00:45 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 14:00:45 -0400 Subject: Rogers redirect issue; Call for help In-Reply-To: <48B9841F.2050002-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48B9841F.2050002@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <48B98ACD.4050607@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > > Those of you on Rogers, can you try accessing my website and tell me > if you succeed or not? David Collier-Brown noticed that he can't, and > is helping me trace down the exact problem, but it looks like Rogers > in resolving my domain to their own IP address. > > http://wiki.tle-bu.org/index.php/D-Bus_Tutorial_and_References I had no problem accessing it, but this seems similar to the problem I originally had with my matureit.ca domain. I couldn't access it, most of the people that I knew on the Rogers network couldn't access it, but there were sporadic pockets that could. I solved my own access problem by switching to Open DNS, but it wasn't until the recent DNS patch was applied that I, along with all my clients, got seamless access using the Rogers supplied DNS settings. At the time, Rogers couldn't / wouldn't explain it beyond saying that their network test center could access it. HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 19:39:46 2008 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 15:39:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rogers redirect issue; Call for help In-Reply-To: <48B9841F.2050002-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48B9841F.2050002@alteeve.com> Message-ID: > This should resolve to 192.139.81.119 and be a mediawiki page with my > D-Bus notes. If you get anything else, can you please reply with a > traceroute, the error you got and anything you may think could help. > > Thanks! > > Madi Works for me... penguin ~ # traceroute 192.139.81.119 traceroute to 192.139.81.119 (192.139.81.119), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 192.168.200.1 (192.168.200.1) 13.478 ms 15.248 ms 15.146 ms 2 i216-58-0-2.cybersurf.com (216.58.0.2) 19.049 ms 19.004 ms 20.905 ms 3 gi9-7.mpd01.yyz02.atlas.cogentco.com (38.99.136.233) 26.875 ms 26.844 ms 26.795 ms 4 te3-4.mpd01.yyz01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.5.85) 26.762 ms te3-2.mpd01.yyz01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.5.81) 28.584 ms 30.526 ms 5 gi2-0-0.3490.core01.yyz01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.5.73) 32.462 ms 32.430 ms 34.338 ms 6 vl3566.na01.b010946-1.yyz01.atlas.cogentco.com (38.112.37.142) 36.282 ms 13.897 ms 13.934 ms 7 38.104.157.94 (38.104.157.94) 20.189 ms 20.158 ms 20.133 ms 8 unused119.iplink.net (192.139.81.119) 20.099 ms 23.585 ms 23.538 ms 9 unused119.iplink.net (192.139.81.119) 27.446 ms 29.398 ms 29.366 ms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 19:43:10 2008 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 15:43:10 -0400 Subject: Odd memtest86 behaviour Message-ID: Hi folks, I've been running memtest86 on a hand-me-down PC and getting strange results. Originally, it had 512M of RAM and it would fail memtest86 after 13 seconds. I bought an additional 1G today, installed it (1G first slot, 512M second slot), ran memtest86 and it failed after about 43 seconds. Thinking I'd isolated the problem (or symptom) to the 512M RAM, I took that out and ran memtest86 again -- and it failed after 32 seconds. (I've defined failing as having the wall time clock stop, and the system refuse to respond to the ESC key to reboot.) The system is a fairly new white box, P4-2GHz. I'm now trying to decide if the processor (or something else) is marginal, or if I'm worrying about nothing -- it had an old Windows XP installation that I'm planning on overwriting, possibly with openSolaris, and I'd like to be sure that the hardware is OK before I start storing data on this box (I'm looking at making it a file server/data warehouse). Thanks in advance, -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 22:47:48 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 18:47:48 -0400 Subject: Quebec gov't sued for buying Microsoft In-Reply-To: <20080830165033.GA16577-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <48B60C77.6070908@telly.org> <99a6c38f0808291500q7acde7bdjcb7694f601cea89c@mail.gmail.com> <20080830165033.GA16577@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <48B9CE14.4000103@rogers.com> Neil Watson wrote: > My experience with gov (ON) IT is that they buy mostly 'off the shelf' > products. Solaris, Oracle, NetIQ, OpenView, Informatica, Websphere, > Windows and occasionally Red Hat. > A few years ago, the Ontario government signed a deal with Sun, so that all tax funded schools could use StarOffice. However, I haven't heard how that's going. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 22:49:33 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 18:49:33 -0400 Subject: Rogers redirect issue; Call for help In-Reply-To: <48B9841F.2050002-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48B9841F.2050002@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <48B9CE7D.9020007@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > Those of you on Rogers, can you try accessing my website and tell me > if you succeed or not? David Collier-Brown noticed that he can't, and > is helping me trace down the exact problem, but it looks like Rogers > in resolving my domain to their own IP address. > > http://wiki.tle-bu.org/index.php/D-Bus_Tutorial_and_References > > This should resolve to 192.139.81.119 and be a mediawiki page with my > D-Bus notes. If you get anything else, can you please reply with a > traceroute, the error you got and anything you may think could help. > I go to a page with "D-Bus Tutorial and References" at the top. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 23:56:46 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 19:56:46 -0400 Subject: Rogers redirect issue; Call for help In-Reply-To: <48B9841F.2050002-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48B9841F.2050002@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <48B9DE3E.5030404@rogers.com> I access just fine. And I am with rogers. Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > Those of you on Rogers, can you try accessing my website and tell me > if you succeed or not? David Collier-Brown noticed that he can't, and > is helping me trace down the exact problem, but it looks like Rogers > in resolving my domain to their own IP address. > > http://wiki.tle-bu.org/index.php/D-Bus_Tutorial_and_References > > This should resolve to 192.139.81.119 and be a mediawiki page with my > D-Bus notes. If you get anything else, can you please reply with a > traceroute, the error you got and anything you may think could help. > > Thanks! > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 00:11:54 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 20:11:54 -0400 Subject: Rogers redirect issue; Call for help In-Reply-To: <48B9841F.2050002-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48B9841F.2050002@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <48B9E1CA.1070602@alteeve.com> Thank you all for your replies. As John said, we've seen something like this before with a domain hosted on the same server of his. Maybe it's a server in a distributed network so it effects only certain Roger's customers? It's good to know it's not widespread. Thanks! Madi Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > Those of you on Rogers, can you try accessing my website and tell me > if you succeed or not? David Collier-Brown noticed that he can't, and is > helping me trace down the exact problem, but it looks like Rogers in > resolving my domain to their own IP address. > > http://wiki.tle-bu.org/index.php/D-Bus_Tutorial_and_References > > This should resolve to 192.139.81.119 and be a mediawiki page with my > D-Bus notes. If you get anything else, can you please reply with a > traceroute, the error you got and anything you may think could help. > > Thanks! > > Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 02:09:06 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 22:09:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rogers redirect issue; Call for help In-Reply-To: <48B9841F.2050002-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48B9841F.2050002@alteeve.com> Message-ID: | From: Madison Kelly | | Those of you on Rogers, can you try accessing my website and tell me if you | succeed or not? David Collier-Brown noticed that he can't, and is helping me | trace down the exact problem, but it looks like Rogers in resolving my domain | to their own IP address. | | http://wiki.tle-bu.org/index.php/D-Bus_Tutorial_and_References | | This should resolve to 192.139.81.119 and be a mediawiki page with my D-Bus | notes. If you get anything else, can you please reply with a traceroute, the | error you got and anything you may think could help. Was/is this a DNS or routing problem? They are very different. I don't like Rogers DNS: it hijacks unresolved domains. I run my own DNS server. I used to have it "forward" requests to Rogers' DNS. When Rogers started to hijack, I stopped using their DNS. When I did a query for wiki.tle-bu.org, there was a noticeable delay. Perhaps if Rogers gets a long enough delay, it decided to hijack. Anyway, it seems to work. Here's a sample query (it worked): $ dig @64.71.255.198 wiki.tle-bu.org a +tcp ; <<>> DiG 9.2.1 <<>> @64.71.255.198 wiki.tle-bu.org a +tcp ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 6734 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 2 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;wiki.tle-bu.org. IN A ;; ANSWER SECTION: wiki.tle-bu.org. 38400 IN CNAME tle-bu.org. tle-bu.org. 38400 IN A 192.139.81.119 ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: tle-bu.org. 86390 IN NS ns1.nouvelocity.com. tle-bu.org. 86390 IN NS ns2.nouvelocity.com. ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: ns1.nouvelocity.com. 172790 IN A 192.139.81.119 ns2.nouvelocity.com. 172790 IN A 192.139.81.120 ;; Query time: 45 msec ;; SERVER: 64.71.255.198#53(64.71.255.198) ;; WHEN: Sat Aug 30 21:15:46 2008 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 156 In case someone doesn't know how to read dig output, I'll explain a few things. First the dig command itself. The @64.71.255.198 means: query the server at 64.71.255.198. That is the IP address of the Rogers DNS server that Rogers DHCP server told my system to use. The "wiki.tle-bu.org" is the domain name to query about. I should probably have ended it with another ".". The "a" means: query for A records -- ones that give IP addresses. The +tcp means query through TCP (rather than the default UDP). Dig shows pretty plainly what a DNS answer message look like. There are four sections, each containing zero or more sort-of DNS records. Each DNS record looks a bit like this: tle-bu.org. 38400 IN A 192.139.81.119 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ value ^ kind of record. A: IPv4 address NS: name server CNAME: nickname ^^ Realm "IN" -- internet ^^^^^ TTL (time to live) -- number of seconds that you can trust this answer ^^^^^^^^^^^ the DNS name in question The Query section says what query is being answered. In this example, the question was: what is the A record for "wiki.tle-bu.org"? The Answer section gives the answer (if any). This Answer section shows that "wiki.tle-bu.org" is a nickname for "tle-bu.org" and that the IP address of "tle-bu.org" is 192.139.81.119. The Authority section showns what name servers are authoritative. The Additional section includes additional information that the DNS server thinks might be worthwhile. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 02:11:41 2008 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 22:11:41 -0400 Subject: Has Anyone Heard About: btrFS...? Message-ID: <7c50d3570808301911t396163c6k74dc28e93d7dd7e7@mail.gmail.com> I just found out about it today, has anyone heard anything about it...besides what they have on their wiki?!: http://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Main_Page -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 13:20:56 2008 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 09:20:56 -0400 Subject: debugging javascript Message-ID: <1220188856.3909.18.camel@aragorn> Hello I am teaching myself AJAX, and have now gotten to the point where no syntax errors are reported. I am using Javascript and HTML for now, to get a dropdown menu. The failed script follows an example in Steven Holzner's Ajax Bible pp 379-400. It's at: http://hackingajax.alimentarus.net/sixth.shtml, if anyone wants to see the error console. I have tried ddd, greasemonkey, and a number of other debuggers, including firefox's own error console, under Linux. All of them have seem to have this same screwball way of numbering the lines. Apparently the error is being reported on line 344 on a file which has only 150 or so lines. When seen under Explorer, the page is completely blank. If anyone can shed light on this issue, I would be grateful. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 13:28:27 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:28:27 +0400 Subject: debugging javascript In-Reply-To: <1220188856.3909.18.camel@aragorn> References: <1220188856.3909.18.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: Firebug is just unreplacable debugger of JavaScript. Unfortunately, it does not run (yet) under version 3 of firefox, just only under version 2. It is worth however an efford and mess caused by installing an additional older version of firefox. You will love it. I did not even looked into your code - I am on vacation and using computer of friend. Firebug will list the exact line of code where an error occurrs. It allows for interactive debugging and running the code, as well as using break points and viewing values of variables at any stage of code execution. zb. On 8/31/08, Paul King wrote: > Hello > > I am teaching myself AJAX, and have now gotten to the point where no > syntax errors are reported. I am using Javascript and HTML for now, to > get a dropdown menu. > > The failed script follows an example in Steven Holzner's Ajax Bible pp > 379-400. It's at: http://hackingajax.alimentarus.net/sixth.shtml, if > anyone wants to see the error console. > > I have tried ddd, greasemonkey, and a number of other debuggers, > including firefox's own error console, under Linux. All of them have > seem to have this same screwball way of numbering the lines. Apparently > the error is being reported on line 344 on a file which has only 150 or > so lines. > > When seen under Explorer, the page is completely blank. > > If anyone can shed light on this issue, I would be grateful. > > Paul King > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 13:45:54 2008 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 09:45:54 -0400 Subject: debugging javascript In-Reply-To: References: <1220188856.3909.18.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: <1220190354.3909.26.camel@aragorn> On Sun, 2008-08-31 at 17:28 +0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Firebug is just unreplacable debugger of JavaScript. Unfortunately, it > does not run (yet) under version 3 of firefox, just only under version > 2. It is worth however an efford and mess caused by installing an > additional older version of firefox. You will love it. > I am using firebug on Version 3 of firefox -- it seems as though they have it for v3, now. I entered a call to one of my script functions, and it is reporting that the error is occurring on line 414, which is impressive for an HTML file that has only 150 or so lines. :-) Otherwise, I agree that Firebug seems to amount to something. I have been able to iron out a number of bugs with it. It's just that Mozilla.org seems to recommend ddd (which I also have). Ddd is also giving me bizarre line numbers, so neither one is helpful at this point. > I did not even looked into your code - I am on vacation and using > computer of friend. > > Firebug will list the exact line of code where an error occurrs. It > allows for interactive debugging and running the code, as well as > using break points and viewing values of variables at any stage of > code execution. > > zb. > > > > On 8/31/08, Paul King wrote: > > Hello > > > > I am teaching myself AJAX, and have now gotten to the point where no > > syntax errors are reported. I am using Javascript and HTML for now, to > > get a dropdown menu. > > > > The failed script follows an example in Steven Holzner's Ajax Bible pp > > 379-400. It's at: http://hackingajax.alimentarus.net/sixth.shtml, if > > anyone wants to see the error console. > > > > I have tried ddd, greasemonkey, and a number of other debuggers, > > including firefox's own error console, under Linux. All of them have > > seem to have this same screwball way of numbering the lines. Apparently > > the error is being reported on line 344 on a file which has only 150 or > > so lines. > > > > When seen under Explorer, the page is completely blank. > > > > If anyone can shed light on this issue, I would be grateful. > > > > Paul King > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > � -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 14:17:40 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 18:17:40 +0400 Subject: debugging javascript In-Reply-To: <1220190354.3909.26.camel@aragorn> References: <1220188856.3909.18.camel@aragorn> <1220190354.3909.26.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: On 8/31/08, Paul King wrote: > On Sun, 2008-08-31 at 17:28 +0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> Firebug is just unreplacable debugger of JavaScript. Unfortunately, it >> does not run (yet) under version 3 of firefox, just only under version >> 2. It is worth however an efford and mess caused by installing an >> additional older version of firefox. You will love it. >> > > I am using firebug on Version 3 of firefox -- it seems as though they > have it for v3, now. Good to know. > I entered a call to one of my script functions, and > it is reporting that the error is occurring on line 414, which is > impressive for an HTML file that has only 150 or so lines. :-) There should be a way to display the code of that particular line that causes problems, so by looking into the code you may be able to find the line itself. One of the exeptions when that problem with line numbering happens is when try statement is used. OK, I will probably be not able to help more at the moment... Well.. when I had a problem like that in the past I simply inserted some empty lines and checked if the numbers shown by debugger increase or do not change. In that way, after some trials, one is able to find an exact location of the line where the problem happens. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 15:26:21 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 11:26:21 -0400 Subject: Open Street Map activist wanted... Message-ID: Looking for a activist to help finish putting Toronto on the (Open Street) Map (http://www.openstreetmap.org/). On the weekend of September 20, 21st the people involved in "Open Street Map" are looking to map (or finish mapping) a number of cities around the world, and it would be nice if Toronto could be one of them. So, we need someone to coordinate efforts here in Toronto. The goal behind the "Open Street Map" is to have a database of high quality geographic information, free of any commercial/government entanglements. So, if you want to say produce a custom map showing bicycle maps by elevation, no problem. Want to produce a great map showing your business, without having to get legal permission, again no problem. Information that might not make it on to regular maps, like foot path routes can easily be stored. Think a Wikipedia of geographic data. Once a free database is available, you can do lots of interesting things. The big issue with Open Street Map at the moment is getting data for that database. Keep in mind that for this all to work, all the data must come from public unrestricted sources. Typically this means people travelling an area with a Global Positioning Satelite (GPS) receiver and making observations. Parts of Toronto, namely the downtown core are well covered. Some parts of Toronto, like chunks of North York / Scarborough have the streets traced, but need people to go and note street names off the sign posts. Parts of Etobicoke have not been mapped at all. The levels of mapping means that someone with just a notepad, a ballpoint pen, a partially completed map, and a willingness to walk or bicycle can do good volunteer work for Open Street Map. In other areas, someone with a GPS receiver will be needed to at least trace the streets (and hopefully at the same time collect street names). In all areas of the city there is value in filling in more data, namely noting points of interest, like pubs, schools, places of worship and so on. So, what is needed is someone to coordinate the efforts of a group of volunteers. Someone who could talk to bicycle groups, hiking groups, high school geography teachers and others who could be interested in a project like this. What is already available includes: - Linuxcaffe at 326 Harbord Street (near Bloor and Christie) has offered to act as a meeting place for the mapping effort. This is a fairly good spot as it has a fairly central location and offers free WiFi (great for entering data into the Open Street Map database). - Information as to how other cities have approached this in the past, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Mapping_Weekend_Howto with specific examples in places like London England. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/London_mapping_party - We have an offer of the loan of a GPS receiver from one of the big Kitchener / Waterloo Open Street Map fans. Things that can be easily arranged: - Wiki page(s) to post announcements, and track who will be going to what part(s) of the city. What we need: - A coordinator to put all this together. This is something I would be happy to do, but I have other commitments is the days leading up to the 20, so, while I would be happy to help, I am not the person to take the lead on this event. - Volunteers willing to travel the city. When volunteering questions that will need answers include: - How can you get around the city (foot? car? bicycle?). - Do you have a laptop computer, if so, what sort? (there is Open Street Map software for Windows, Mac and Linux, but not all the same programs are available for all platforms). - Do you have a GPS receiver, if so, what sort (some GPSs must be connected to laptop to work, limiting their value for tracing hiking paths)? - What part(s) of the city would you like to focus on? So, who would like to pitch in? Thanks. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 15:27:14 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 11:27:14 -0400 Subject: debugging javascript In-Reply-To: <1220188856.3909.18.camel@aragorn> References: <1220188856.3909.18.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0808310827r34e9f531x9aff382070e2c29@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 9:20 AM, Paul King wrote: > I am teaching myself AJAX, and have now gotten to the point where no > syntax errors are reported. I am using Javascript and HTML for now, to > get a dropdown menu. > > The failed script follows an example in Steven Holzner's Ajax Bible pp > 379-400. It's at: http://hackingajax.alimentarus.net/sixth.shtml, if > anyone wants to see the error console. > > I have tried ddd, greasemonkey, and a number of other debuggers, > including firefox's own error console, under Linux. All of them have > seem to have this same screwball way of numbering the lines. Apparently > the error is being reported on line 344 on a file which has only 150 or > so lines. > > When seen under Explorer, the page is completely blank. > > If anyone can shed light on this issue, I would be grateful. Off the top of my head I can think of two ways that line numbers might be reported wrong: 1) Javascript code is dynamically written into the existing document - say with document.createElement('script') 2) A pre-existing object method or function block is unintentionally referenced and/or modified. You might be running into a variation of #2... a possible typo in the name of MouseEvent. Lines 7 & 35 both reference "mouseEvent" although one starts with a capital M and the other doesn't. IIRC there is also a pre-defined function by that name. Try changing one of the above lines so that both 'mouseEvent' references use the same case. My HDD failed and I'm running under Knoppix until I get my new drive setup (tomorrow); I can't verify that this is a working fix until then*. It does get rid of the errors though. Here's a couple other communities you might find useful: comp.lang.javascript: http://groups.google.ca/group/comp.lang.javascript ajax-web-technology: http://groups.google.ca/group/ajax-web-technology HTH. - Scott. * There's no http daemon on the disc I'm running so I can't test the AJAX calls. I also don't have my regular development environment in place. :( -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 16:56:43 2008 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 12:56:43 -0400 Subject: peer review or password changing paper Message-ID: <20080831165643.GA4159@watson-wilson.ca> Hi folks, Please have a look at this brief paper about password security. Can you find any flaws? http://technocrat.watson-wilson.ca/blosxom/computer/password-changes.html -- Neil Watson System Administrator for hire http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 17:02:39 2008 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 13:02:39 -0400 Subject: 5 User Tips for Configuring Your Hardware in Linux Message-ID: <7c50d3570808311002x4f3972fbtbbc4e596fe91948a@mail.gmail.com> The following article was posted on neowin.net (http://neowin.net/news/main/08/08/31/5-user-tips-for-configuring-your-hardware-in-linux), I've put the links in parenthesis: 5 User Tips for Configuring Your Hardware in Linux I have heard lots of complaints about configuring hardware in Linux distributions. This argument has had lots of merit in the past, but with each new distribution or release, managing hardware has become much easier. With Ubuntu (http://www.ubuntu.com/), the most popular Linux distribution to date, the developers have spent an incredible amount of time adding drivers and apps to help you configure your computer. I offer these tips for configuring your hardware as examples of how easy it can be. Please remember that each computer build and its configuration may be different, so these are general guidelines. Usually there are forums dedicated to each distribution where users and developers can interact and solve specific issues. Research Your Hardware. Just like with Windows, if you use Windows you need hardware that is supported by Windows. Wireless cards are the same for Linux. In most cases, it is black or white. Linux supports it, or it doesn't. You can find most hardware information HERE (http://www.linux.com/base/ldp/howto/HOWTO-INDEX/hardware.html). For laptop support, sites include: Linuxcertified.com (http://www.linuxcertified.com/) Linux-Laptop.com (http://www.linux-laptop.com/) Emperorlinux.com (http://www.emperorlinux.com/) Configuring Your Wireless Card. Unfortunately, using a Linux distribution that does not have wireless drivers or apps already built in can be a bit daunting. Ubuntu and similar distros based on Debian have done a fair job of adding many drivers for wireless cards. These distros support variety of cards and many will simply work once the distro is installed. A bit of quick research might help to see if the card is supported out of the box. One of the best articles I have found for configuring your wireless card (outside of the distribution specific forum) can be found HERE (http://www.lockergnome.com/linux/2008/08/06/how-to-configure-wireless-internet-in-linux/). Unless you have an older PCMCIA card, chances are that the card will be supported. Configuring Your Graphics Card: Whether you use Nvidia or ATI for your graphics card needs, there are guides to help you. Nvidia driver installation guidelines can be found HERE (http://www.linux-gamers.net/modules/wiwimod/index.php?page=HOWTO+NVidia). You can also visit the Nvidia home page HERE (http://www.nvidia.com/page/home.html). ATI driver installation can be found HERE (http://www2.ati.com/drivers/linux/linux_8.16.20.html). The author has personally had more success with Nvidia drivers, but each user may have different results. Configuring higher resolutions and refresh rates is not a daunting task. Ubuntu has released a simple guide to do this. You simply have to add a few lines to your xorg.conf file. To do this, use this guide (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=83973). You'll need to look up the specs of your specific card and monitor in order to add the right settings. A simple search of your product on the web should do this. If you get on "Out of Range" message, you can use the key combination Ctl-Alt +/- (plus or minus on the number pad) to revert back to a lower resolution. Again, support forums help out immensely. Upgrade and Update: Just as with Windows, Linux upgrades and updates its kernel and software often. In the older days, updating may have been difficult, but today's distros make it simple to do. If you can check a box and click Install, that is about it. Ubuntu uses Synaptic (a GUI based utility of Apt). Each distribution uses some form of package manager to update. It is strongly recommended that the user downloads and updates their Linux distribution with the appropriate package manager. Synaptic does a particularly good job of solving any dependency issues with programs, packages, and similar files. Advanced users can compile packages from other sources, but the risk of broken packages is greater. Use Ubuntu (or one of its derivatives). Ubuntu is the fastest growing and currently most popular Linux distribution. Te main reason for using this particular distro is that there is lots of support from users, as well as websites that offer lots of helpful advice. One of the best I've found is HERE (http://blog.lxpages.com/2007/07/11/101-ubuntu-tips-tricks-and-tutorials/). In addition, users have found the distro to be easy to use, highly configurable, and loaded with simple, easy to use utilities. This makes the overall Linux experience enjoyable and worthwhile for the user. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 18:24:04 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:24:04 -0400 Subject: peer review or password changing paper In-Reply-To: <20080831165643.GA4159-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20080831165643.GA4159@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 12:56 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > Hi folks, > > Please have a look at this brief paper about password security. Can you > find any flaws? > > http://technocrat.watson-wilson.ca/blosxom/computer/password-changes.html I think you focus too much on validating the "combinatorial result" of how long it may be expected to take to crack a password when that's not really the focus of the problem. The numerics can stop earlier, with two comments: 1. In principle, 8 characters could imply 5.76x10^14 possible passwords; 2. In practice, the tendancy to make them easy to remember diminishes the size of the set really substantially, because people aren't terribly good at remembering, let alone creating, random patterns. Furthermore, it is very difficult to impose *truly* careful practice. The following thoughts fall out... 3. If users are creating their own passwords, the results are likely to contain regular patterns that will make them relatively easy to guess. 4. If they are forced to change passwords frequently, then it is likely that they will respond with actions that will, in fact, worsen security. For instance: a) They may codify some personal policy for creating a pattern (e.g. - January's password being "chris-jan", February's being "chris-feb", and so forth), such that if an adversary can guess or capture a past password, they may readily guess a newer one. b) They may write the password down on a Post-It note, or in some other such location, convenient for access by both friend and foe. If this happens, then the "strength" of the password (e.g. - how difficult it is expected to be to guess) becomes irrelevant. 5. A common problem today is that the sheer volume of systems requiring passwords is increasing, including such things as: - Voicemail (home, work, cellular) - Email accounts (perhaps multiple of them) - Networked filesystems - Internet-based access to banks, also ATM PIN#s - Social Networking sites (Facebook, Slashdot, ...) - ECommerce (e.g. - Amazon, ...) If one uses the same password for multiple systems, then a vulnerability in one can lead to multiple systems becoming vulnerable by proxy. On the other hand, using distinct passwords means having *many* secrets to remember and protect. Being forced to change some of the passwords monthly adds to the personal "administrative burden," whilst, as observed, this is only a "best practice" when working with 1970s non-networked mainframes. If you're solely thinking about how to handle password generation, then I'd suggest talking about how to generate memorable, yet random, passwords. This seems a good "seminal source": http://www.multicians.org/thvv/gpw.html -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 18:58:26 2008 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:58:26 -0400 Subject: Open Street Map activist wanted... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1220209106.10569.245.camel@leon> On Sun, 2008-08-31 at 11:26 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Looking for a activist to help finish putting Toronto on the (Open > Street) Map (http://www.openstreetmap.org/). > > On the weekend of September 20, 21st the people involved in "Open > Street Map" are looking to map (or finish mapping) a number of cities > around the world, and it would be nice if Toronto could be one of > them. So, we need someone to coordinate efforts here in Toronto. > > The goal behind the "Open Street Map" is to have a database of high > quality geographic information, free of any commercial/government > entanglements. So, if you want to say produce a custom map showing > bicycle maps by elevation, no problem. Want to produce a great map > showing your business, without having to get legal permission, again > no problem. Information that might not make it on to regular maps, > like foot path routes can easily be stored. Think a Wikipedia of > geographic data. Once a free database is available, you can do lots of > interesting things. Awesome outline, Colin, and thank you for moving this along in Toronto. Contributing to OSM need not take away from what you planned to do on a given day. Some of the things that make OSM a really rich data source are things like bike paths. So you can have your family bike outing leave your GPS running in your pocket or backpack to collect track data, and make notes of the posted names of the trails (and where they start and stop). The beltline trail and the Martin goodman trail are both great candidates to include in OSM for cyclists / roller skaters / runners. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 20:26:56 2008 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:56 -0400 Subject: debugging javascript In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0808310827r34e9f531x9aff382070e2c29-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1220188856.3909.18.camel@aragorn> <99a6c38f0808310827r34e9f531x9aff382070e2c29@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1220214416.8365.10.camel@aragorn> On Sun, 2008-08-31 at 11:27 -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 9:20 AM, Paul King wrote: > > I am teaching myself AJAX, and have now gotten to the point where no > > syntax errors are reported. I am using Javascript and HTML for now, to > > get a dropdown menu. > > > > The failed script follows an example in Steven Holzner's Ajax Bible pp > > 379-400. It's at: http://hackingajax.alimentarus.net/sixth.shtml, if > > anyone wants to see the error console. > > > > I have tried ddd, greasemonkey, and a number of other debuggers, > > including firefox's own error console, under Linux. All of them have > > seem to have this same screwball way of numbering the lines. Apparently > > the error is being reported on line 344 on a file which has only 150 or > > so lines. > > > > When seen under Explorer, the page is completely blank. > > > > If anyone can shed light on this issue, I would be grateful. > > > Off the top of my head I can think of two ways that line numbers might > be reported wrong: The "line numbers" problem has not been really addressed, but I have found other ways of rooting out errors. There now appear to be no errors reported by the debugger, but there is still one runtime error left: the menu simply does not show up. But if I point my browser to "items1.txt", the text file displays in the browser. Greasemonkey shows that the file is in fact read. However, the list inside the file is not parsed into menu items. I don't know if the problem is that XMLHttpRequestObject.OnReadyStateChange is assigned a function but is never called. This is the place where the menu is supposed to display. But my understanding is that it is not supposed to be called. It is supposed to be triggered by an event. Another culprit is that the list is never parsed for some reason. So, at least now I have a couple of leads. Thanks to all for your help so far. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 23:48:04 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:48:04 -0400 Subject: debugging javascript In-Reply-To: <1220214416.8365.10.camel@aragorn> References: <1220188856.3909.18.camel@aragorn> <99a6c38f0808310827r34e9f531x9aff382070e2c29@mail.gmail.com> <1220214416.8365.10.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: <7ac602420808311648g368d5bbco1d6e13614585e9eb@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 4:26 PM, Paul King wrote: > The "line numbers" problem has not been really addressed, but I have > found other ways of rooting out errors. There now appear to be no errors > reported by the debugger, but there is still one runtime error left: the > menu simply does not show up. But if I point my browser to "items1.txt", > the text file displays in the browser. Greasemonkey shows that the file > is in fact read. However, the list inside the file is not parsed into > menu items. > > I don't know if the problem is that > XMLHttpRequestObject.OnReadyStateChange is assigned a function but is > never called. This is the place where the menu is supposed to display. > But my understanding is that it is not supposed to be called. It is > supposed to be triggered by an event. > > Another culprit is that the list is never parsed for some reason. So, at > least now I have a couple of leads. I saved a copy of your page to my disk and browsed to the local copy, thinking I could play around with it from there. It failed when you tried to send null with the XMLHttpRequest. I think you might want to send the empty string, instead. For some reason, though, none of your functions seem to get called when I browse to the version hosted on your server. One thing you might want to try is change