From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 03:01:53 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 23:01:53 -0400 Subject: is LPIC Certifications Respected in industry. In-Reply-To: <20070430214535.GL5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880704261608h7e6732b0p5bdc8628d0485f67@mail.gmail.com> <20070427212718.GJ5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070427213945.GA21477@md5.ca> <20070430214535.GL5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 4/30/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Apr 27, 2007 at 05:39:45PM -0400, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > > I think idea of certification is to catch the eye of the resumre reviewer, not > > to instill credibility of the individual in their possible boss. For that you > > have completed projects. Often people filtering out resumes are farthest from > > technical field, as these things help. A+, CCNS, MCSE whatever. > > But that simply means that certifications are trying to solve a problem > that should be solved with a much more direct approach. Stop having > clueless people reviewing the resumes. In that case, it's pretty well certain that you needn't apply to work at any company with much more than about 100 employees, because once companies grow past that size, the HR function starts specializing away that capability. Staying with small companies has a number of merits. There are also some demerits; generally, large companies have more resources to play with, and that sometimes matters. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 14:32:04 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 10:32:04 -0400 Subject: options for buying 1 U appliances Message-ID: What's available out there for 1 U appliances that are brandable ? Sun has one, has anyone used it ? Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 14:45:58 2007 From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 09:45:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: options for buying 1 U appliances In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Linux Journal often has ads for: http://www.mbx.com/oem/branding_capabilities/ http://www.asacomputers.com On Tue, 1 May 2007, Dave Cramer wrote: > What's available out there for 1 U appliances that are brandable ? > > Sun has one, has anyone used it ? > > Dave > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Scott C. Ripley phone: (416)738-6357 www: http://www.scottripley.com email: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Secure Your E-Mail! http://www.mysecuremail.com/javascrypt/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 15:06:10 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 11:06:10 -0400 Subject: options for buying 1 U appliances In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <78D43301-C8B1-4D12-83BB-0A873C354027@visibleassets.com> Well, I'm looking for options in Canada .. anyone ? Dave On 1-May-07, at 10:45 AM, Scott C. Ripley wrote: > > Linux Journal often has ads for: > http://www.mbx.com/oem/branding_capabilities/ > http://www.asacomputers.com > > > On Tue, 1 May 2007, Dave Cramer wrote: > >> What's available out there for 1 U appliances that are brandable ? >> >> Sun has one, has anyone used it ? >> >> Dave >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > -- > > Scott C. Ripley > phone: (416)738-6357 > www: http://www.scottripley.com > email: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org > > Secure Your E-Mail! > http://www.mysecuremail.com/javascrypt/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 15:58:26 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 11:58:26 -0400 Subject: options for buying 1 U appliances In-Reply-To: <78D43301-C8B1-4D12-83BB-0A873C354027-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <78D43301-C8B1-4D12-83BB-0A873C354027@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <768631270705010858r37b85b6dsc5c0c52d58ef98a5@mail.gmail.com> TigerDirect has some.. But your issues are always going to be supportability/serviceability http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/category/category_tlc.asp?CatId=30 On 5/1/07, Dave Cramer wrote: > > Well, I'm looking for options in Canada .. anyone ? > > Dave > On 1-May-07, at 10:45 AM, Scott C. Ripley wrote: > > > > > Linux Journal often has ads for: > > http://www.mbx.com/oem/branding_capabilities/ > > http://www.asacomputers.com > > > > > > On Tue, 1 May 2007, Dave Cramer wrote: > > > >> What's available out there for 1 U appliances that are brandable ? > >> > >> Sun has one, has anyone used it ? > >> > >> Dave > >> -- > >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > >> > > > > -- > > > > Scott C. Ripley > > phone: (416)738-6357 > > www: http://www.scottripley.com > > email: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org > > > > Secure Your E-Mail! > > http://www.mysecuremail.com/javascrypt/ > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 18:24:03 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 14:24:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Help needed... Message-ID: <466983.31856.qm@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> We will need someone with a van (or pick-up truck, or similar machine) who can help with GTALug booth tear-down at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre Wednesday @ 5 PM. If you can help, please e-mail me ASAP. Thanks. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 19:37:33 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 15:37:33 -0400 Subject: Windows Vista restricts GNU GCC apps to 32 MB In-Reply-To: <1e55af990704281641o150cb468t4307d7d92de6be79-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990704281334l4ede0f4dj568544802372a102@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990704281641o150cb468t4307d7d92de6be79@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070501193733.GM5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Apr 28, 2007 at 07:41:28PM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > I read it differently.. as it seems to read that it is a problem for > anyone who writes with one codebase which is to be deployed broadly > without any special vista-specific tweaks. > > Yes, old software may not generally require more than 32MB of memory.. > but some of it sure does. I read it as: Anything using the standard C interfaces like malloc() is limited to 32MB, while anything using the Win32 API calls can have as much as it wants. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 19:39:10 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 15:39:10 -0400 Subject: Is it360 the death of the linux show in TO? In-Reply-To: <1177893750.3862.357.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1177893750.3862.357.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <20070501193910.GN5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Apr 29, 2007 at 08:42:30PM -0400, tleslie wrote: > I reg. for it360 and only just now went to check out this years > exhibitors, > no novell, no hp, no vmware, no 3ware, no redhat, .... > not a lot, > now i don't know whether to go to the it360 now ?.... > except maybe to go because this will be the last show? > > I thought it wasn't half bad the last two-three years, > I am almost wondering if I am reading > the wrong exhibitor list? > > You would think with Linux growth it would be increasing with respect to > exhibitors. > > f%$^ing depressing. I think computer shows in general are dying. People get all the news instantly on the internet, without having to go to a computer show to see all the new stuff announced. After all the stuff that came out 6 months ago is hardly news worth going to an anual computer show for. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 19:46:53 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 15:46:53 -0400 Subject: [OT] IBM RS/6000 43P-133 up for grabs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070501194653.GO5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 30, 2007 at 11:07:31AM -0400, Paul Mora wrote: > Hi Everyone. > > I've got an old IBM RS/6000 model 43P-133 available to anyone who > wants to come and pick it up. Here's the specs: > > Processor: PowerPC 604e - 133MHz > Memory: 128Mb > Disk: 2 x 4Gb SCSI disks, IDE CD-ROM drive, diskette drive > Network: onboard 10Mb Ethernet, plus 2 x 10Mb ISA Ethernet cards > Other: 2 x serial, 1 x parallel, 1 x game port, integrated sound card > Operating System: AIX 4.3.3 ML11 > Case size: Mid-tower > BONUS: IBM G76 17" CRT monitor > > Notes: This machine is a nice little box that would be perfect for > anyone who needs or wants to learn about AIX, IBM's flavour of UNIX. > While it's not the latest/greatest release, the core OS concepts are > all there. Memory expansion is limited (256Mb max), but as long as > you're not running any kind of graphical environment, it should work > just fine as a little web/db server (would run Drupal nicely). You > can also add pre-compiled GNU software from www.bullfreeware.com. The > other kinda neat feature is that it has both integrated SCSI and IDE > adapters, so you could expand the disk space quite nicely. It uses > standard PS2 style mouse and keyboard, and works perfectly through a > KVM. The onboard ethernet card doesn't work for some reason, but > there are two ISA ethernet cards that work just fine. > > The machine comes with the AIX 4.3.3 install CDs, plus the SMS > (firmware) diskettes, and an ancient copy of Windows for Workgroups > 3.1.1 PowerPC Edition. Hardware manuals can be downloaded in PDF > format from www.ibm.com/pc/support (search on 7248-133). The hardware > is supported up to AIX 5.1, but in my experience, this machine runs > best with 4.3.3. > > And, if you're REALLY adventurous, you CAN actually install Linux on > it (so this post is not entirely off-topic). None of the modern > distros work I think, but there was once upon a time a version of > Slackware that worked with it. The HOW-TO may still be on > www.tldp.org; check it out. > > I'd really like to see the machine go to someone that will use it or > learn from it. Please contact me off list; first one that comes to > get it gets it. Well for whoever got it, Debian does support it. http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/inst/prep The 43P is listed as a supported model of PReP hardware. Some day I will acquire a PPC machine (and hopefully an alpha). So far I have mips (both big and little endian), sparc, amd64, x86 and 68k. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 19:52:54 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 15:52:54 -0400 Subject: is LPIC Certifications Respected in industry. In-Reply-To: References: <32f6a8880704261608h7e6732b0p5bdc8628d0485f67@mail.gmail.com> <20070427212718.GJ5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070427213945.GA21477@md5.ca> <20070430214535.GL5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070501195254.GP5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 30, 2007 at 11:01:53PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > In that case, it's pretty well certain that you needn't apply to work > at any company with much more than about 100 employees, because once > companies grow past that size, the HR function starts specializing > away that capability. I do prefer smaller companies. It seems once a company reaches a certain size it gets too many layers of management and good decision making becomes nearly imposible. Tends to get frustrating. During a co-op term at a company that had 1600 PCs on a single 10Mbit ethernet, I talked to my boss about the fact we ought to segment the network into seperate pieces for each division. Nothing ever happened with that. Then a few months later HP has been contracted to come in and investigate why the network performance is so crappy, and after a few weeks their report recomended segmenting the network into seperate pieces for each division. Yeah we really had to pay HP lots of money to figure that out. :) > Staying with small companies has a number of merits. There are also > some demerits; generally, large companies have more resources to play > with, and that sometimes matters. Sometimes it can be easier to get the right resources in a small company because the people making the decisions actually have a clue what the company does and what is needed to do it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 19:56:13 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 15:56:13 -0400 Subject: is LPIC Certifications Respected in industry. In-Reply-To: References: <32f6a8880704261608h7e6732b0p5bdc8628d0485f67@mail.gmail.com> <20070427212718.GJ5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070501195613.GQ5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 30, 2007 at 07:52:47PM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Len, you think like me. > > There is a lot of crap people around in our lives, people without > imagination, who however have influance in their life on how the selection > process looks like. They often have no clue about what they are doing. > > After 12 years of living in Canada as a fucken in fact immmigrant I have now > a better view and am not afraid to express myself. > > This society is sick, sick with purpose. It imports a lot well educated > people but just exploits them after they are here. This is a sort of > contemporary slavary. Except that slaves are not only these who know > nothing. Now.,slaves are these who are educated also. > > I have a very rare and unusual luck of working with a man who is very open > minded. That man asked me once: how many programming languages you know? I > silly answered: perl, pascal, php... He replyed: I can program in any > language. And yes, he can. Now, I kniw that I can also. Just give me an > opportunity! Well the CS education I got at Waterloo certainly focused on teaching programing techniques, not languages. You were expected to figure out the language a course used (if it used a specific one) on your own, and in many cases the requirements for a course was just 'use a functional style language' or 'use anything you want as long as this set of requirements get filled'. Maybe that is why CS students from Waterloo tend to be considered very good programmers. They learn to program, not just to use a list of popular at the moment languages. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 20:05:03 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 16:05:03 -0400 Subject: Xubuntu on 1999 Dell PIII 450mhz and 128 megs ram; not enough In-Reply-To: <20070428170743.GA18340-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070428170743.GA18340@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20070501200503.GR5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Apr 28, 2007 at 01:07:43PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > Although I may be considered a Gentoo fanboi by some, I did try > Xubuntu last week. It wasn't on my main machine, but on my old 1999 > Dell. The install was excruciatingly slow. Once installed, Xubuntu was > only painfully slow. > > Optimized Gentoo runs OK on the Dell, and I keep it around as my > emergency backup. With the exception of "internet TV" and editing > 2560x1920 digital photos in Gimp, the Dell keeps pace with my AMD3000+ > with 2 gigs of main ram, and 256 meg video (twice as much as the Dell's > main ram). Xubuntu is supposed to be the least-resource hungry > Ubuntu variant, because it uses XFCE desktop, rather than GNOME (Ubuntu) > or KDE (Kubuntu). And debian installed with only what you want is even leaner. Can't compare any of the desktop environments with a plain simple X with a window manager and nothing else. > I use Blackbox WM under Gentoo. Desktop Environment? We don't need > no steenkin desktop environment. Ubuntu is also probably compiled as > i386. I set Gentoo to build with... > CFLAGS="-O2 -march=pentium3 -fomit-frame-pointer -mmmx -msse -mfpmath=sse" > plus I throw in "mmx" and "sse" use flags. More likely 486 since that is what glibc now requires as a minimum. That already covers the majority of speedups over 386 apparently. Using sse for fp might be nice, but I believe the whole system has to be compiled that way if you want libraries to work with it, although I could be wrong. sse also can't do 80bit FP, only 64 (which is fine for most people, but for some people it matters). mmx is a complete total waste, and fortunately on 64bit it is banned along with x87 making sse mandetory. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 20:29:29 2007 From: jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 16:29:29 -0400 Subject: identify i/o process Message-ID: <4637A329.8090008@totaltravelmarketing.com> Hi there, I am having problem with a server, ti slows down and the disk i/o goes to 100%, I couldn't figure out how to run ps to allow me to see which process is the one giving me the trouble, does anybody know how to identify process doing lots of disk i/o? Thanks in advance for your help Jose -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 20:35:54 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 16:35:54 -0400 Subject: expect scripting issue Message-ID: <22e435080705011335p270fc893ge2917666a89465e6@mail.gmail.com> Hey list, Sorry for the list spam, this probably doesn't belong here but I thought some on the list could be of help. I am doing some nasty ugly expect scripts to dump some configs of various network and storage gear. On my hp procurve switches the sshd is setup to do a clear screen and show a big copyright message. Anyone have any idea how to handle that in expect, the typical expect and send combo still prompt me (at the copyright notice) when I run the script. Or maybe someone out there knows how to config sshd on the hp switches to not show the copyright message (I don't see any config on these switches for stuff related to sshd). Thanks for any help, SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 20:45:59 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 22:45:59 +0200 Subject: desktop system for sale !cheap! Message-ID: <4637A707.2010909@visible-assets.com> I just thought I'd mention again that I have a fairly recent amd64 desktop system for sale. I'm willing to give it away for extremely cheap. The only reason I'm selling it is that I'm out of the country for an extended period of time & don't have anywhere to store it. Please email me off-list if you're interested. The specs are listed below: ======================= $ 450 ============================== Processor: AMD Athlon64 3000+ ( up to 2.4 GHz, Socket 939) Chipset: VIA K8T800 Pro Graphics: ATI Radeon 9200 (64MB dedicated DDR RAM) Memory: 1GB PC3200 DDR RAM (up to 4GB) Network: integrated Realtek 8110S gigabit ethernet adapter MSI PC54G2 PCI Wireless-G (open-source ralink driver) w/ external antenna Audio: Realtek ALC850 8-Channel with SPDIF out (integrated) Creative SB-Live (PCI) + gameport Other MoBo features: Both SATA / IDE controllers, RAID[01] controller, ACPI power management, 2 x IEEE 1394a, 8 USB ports (4 front), audio in front / back, IrDA, Parallel port, Serial port Other things included: 17-inch trinitron (flat, CRT) Monitor, Micro$oft Sidewinder gamepad, surround speakers, really nice black case, 2-channel KVM switcher, 40GB hard drive. Micro$oft Natural Keyboard, Logitech Optical wheel mouse, Dual Layer DVD-RW+/- ======================= $ 450 ============================== This machine is only approximately 17 months old. I've been away since October and it's been doing absolutely nothing for 8 of those months. All hardware is 100% linux compatible, including OpenGL acceleration wth the ATI graphics adapter using proprietary drivers. Aside from linux enthusiasts, if anyone has a son or daughter going to university soon, this would be an excellent way to save money instead of buying a brand-new computer with all peripherals. The motherboard uses the same socket (939) as the newer multi-core AMD processors, but i've only tested it with a single-core processor. I'm practically giving this machine away because i'm selling it for $450. Originally I paid around $900 for the case, motherboard, ram, and CPU - pci parts alone. The AGP card was originally $100, the Wireless card was a special order for $130, and the audio card was originally $100. The monitor was originally $100. I haven't taken any of the other parts into my price approximation, but it's safe to say that I'm selling it for less than 33% of the original price. Everything is in excellent condition except 1 channel in the surround speakers doesn't work, but they're really old and better speaker systems can be purchased relatively cheap. Please email me off-list if you're interested. the manufacturer's details are below: Motherboard: http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K8T_Neo2-FIR Wireless PCI adapter: http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=PC54G2 http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/products/wireless/ http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/wiki/index.php/Hardware -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 20:46:28 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 16:46:28 -0400 Subject: assorted hardware for free In-Reply-To: <1177899124.24646.24.camel@localhost> References: <1177899124.24646.24.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <22e435080705011346w52e26117tf5c9763d0d5b8a52@mail.gmail.com> On 4/29/07, Matt Price wrote: > > and second, i left out the crown jewel of my collection -- the gorgeous > but no-longer-especially-useful ibm thinkpad 701c, with the magnificent > 'butterfly' keyboard that slides out when you open the lid. beatiful. > but a 486 or something that can't run any modern linux distro. please > give it a good home! > I think it was a IBM 486 CPU (aka Blue Lightning). I used one of these for quite a while back in the day, an early version of debian iirc. I think I did the install on another thinkpad with cdrom and swapped the hds. SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 20:54:19 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 16:54:19 -0400 Subject: identify i/o process In-Reply-To: <4637A329.8090008-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <4637A329.8090008@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420705011354j47e559edl3e0dacde5755c586@mail.gmail.com> On 5/1/07, Jose wrote: > I am having problem with a server, ti slows down and the disk i/o goes > to 100%, I couldn't figure out how to run ps to allow me to see which > process is the one giving me the trouble, does anybody know how to > identify process doing lots of disk i/o? I don't know how to answer your question, but have you considered alternatives? Is there enough RAM in the system? Maybe you've overloaded it and it's swapping. Is there free space available on on the mounted filesystems? I discovered the hard way that a filesystem can slow down to glacial speeds if it's experiencing space pressure because it's almost full. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 20:55:07 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 16:55:07 -0400 Subject: expect scripting issue In-Reply-To: <22e435080705011335p270fc893ge2917666a89465e6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <22e435080705011335p270fc893ge2917666a89465e6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <22e435080705011355i3856d651w81ec03cbfd028f92@mail.gmail.com> duh, redirect things properly and things work fine ... sorry long day. SJM On 5/1/07, Sheldon Mustard wrote: > > Hey list, > > Sorry for the list spam, this probably doesn't belong here but I thought > some on the list > could be of help. > > I am doing some nasty ugly expect scripts to dump some configs of various > network and > storage gear. On my hp procurve switches the sshd is setup to do a clear > screen and show > a big copyright message. Anyone have any idea how to handle that in > expect, the typical > expect and send combo still prompt me (at the copyright notice) when I run > the script. > > Or maybe someone out there knows how to config sshd on the hp switches to > not show the > copyright message (I don't see any config on these switches for stuff > related to sshd). > > Thanks for any help, > > SJM > > -- > Sheldon Mustard > smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) > -- -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 21:01:03 2007 From: jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 17:01:03 -0400 Subject: identify i/o process In-Reply-To: <7ac602420705011354j47e559edl3e0dacde5755c586-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4637A329.8090008@totaltravelmarketing.com> <7ac602420705011354j47e559edl3e0dacde5755c586@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4637AA8F.8050001@totaltravelmarketing.com> Ian Petersen wrote: > On 5/1/07, Jose wrote: >> I am having problem with a server, ti slows down and the disk i/o goes >> to 100%, I couldn't figure out how to run ps to allow me to see which >> process is the one giving me the trouble, does anybody know how to >> identify process doing lots of disk i/o? > > I don't know how to answer your question, but have you considered > alternatives? Is there enough RAM in the system? Maybe you've > overloaded it and it's swapping. Is there free space available on on > the mounted filesystems? I discovered the hard way that a filesystem > can slow down to glacial speeds if it's experiencing space pressure > because it's almost full. > > Ian > Hi Ian, Cpu was almost none, RAM was up to 90/95%, but that's normal on that system. space is up to 80% on most drives but not close to be full, swap was up to 40% at the most when that happen. Thanks Jose -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 21:12:54 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 17:12:54 -0400 Subject: identify i/o process In-Reply-To: <4637AA8F.8050001-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <4637A329.8090008@totaltravelmarketing.com> <7ac602420705011354j47e559edl3e0dacde5755c586@mail.gmail.com> <4637AA8F.8050001@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <768631270705011412l454d54beg37662f29ff7272c9@mail.gmail.com> wouldnt top be a better tool? On 5/1/07, Jose wrote: > > Ian Petersen wrote: > > On 5/1/07, Jose wrote: > >> I am having problem with a server, ti slows down and the disk i/o goes > >> to 100%, I couldn't figure out how to run ps to allow me to see which > >> process is the one giving me the trouble, does anybody know how to > >> identify process doing lots of disk i/o? > > > > I don't know how to answer your question, but have you considered > > alternatives? Is there enough RAM in the system? Maybe you've > > overloaded it and it's swapping. Is there free space available on on > > the mounted filesystems? I discovered the hard way that a filesystem > > can slow down to glacial speeds if it's experiencing space pressure > > because it's almost full. > > > > Ian > > > Hi Ian, > > Cpu was almost none, RAM was up to 90/95%, but that's normal on that > system. > space is up to 80% on most drives but not close to be full, swap was up > to 40% at the most when that happen. > > Thanks > > Jose > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 21:24:06 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 21:24:06 +0000 Subject: Is it360 the death of the linux show in TO? In-Reply-To: <20070501193910.GN5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1177893750.3862.357.camel@stan64.site> <20070501193910.GN5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 5/1/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Apr 29, 2007 at 08:42:30PM -0400, tleslie wrote: > > I reg. for it360 and only just now went to check out this years > > exhibitors, > > no novell, no hp, no vmware, no 3ware, no redhat, .... > > not a lot, > > now i don't know whether to go to the it360 now ?.... > > except maybe to go because this will be the last show? > > > > I thought it wasn't half bad the last two-three years, > > I am almost wondering if I am reading > > the wrong exhibitor list? > > > > You would think with Linux growth it would be increasing with respect to > > exhibitors. > > > > f%$^ing depressing. > > I think computer shows in general are dying. People get all the news > instantly on the internet, without having to go to a computer show to > see all the new stuff announced. After all the stuff that came out 6 > months ago is hardly news worth going to an anual computer show for. The value of it isn't in seeing "new stuff," not as far as I am concerned. My time at IT360 was, to my mind, VERY well spent, as I assortedly: a) Found a possible sales lead for my company; b) Verified that it's *vital* that I set up a talk/tutorial on a not-yet-well-covered topic c) Found leads on a set of people interested in discussing use of some technology I am expert with None of those items had anything to do with there being "new stuff" to see; it ALL had to do with sticking a diverse set of technical people in one big room. I'm not entirely optimistic that IT360 will necessarily fly next year as trade show. If whatever trends have been in effect continue to be in effect, they'll need to combine 18 tech conferences together to make it work. At some point, that may not make commercial sense. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 22:06:33 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 18:06:33 -0400 Subject: identify i/o process In-Reply-To: <4637A329.8090008-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <4637A329.8090008@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <20070501220633.GS5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 01, 2007 at 04:29:29PM -0400, Jose wrote: > I am having problem with a server, ti slows down and the disk i/o goes > to 100%, I couldn't figure out how to run ps to allow me to see which > process is the one giving me the trouble, does anybody know how to > identify process doing lots of disk i/o? > > Thanks in advance for your help Well any process stuck waiting for IO will be in state 'D', so you could look for those (using ps or top or whatever you prefer). I imagine there are tools to find out what is doing io but I haven't ever needed to find out badly enough to figure that out. vmstat is also handy for showing how much io and swap is taking place. After all if you are constantly swapping you will see lots of disk io. vmstat 1 or vmstat 5 or something is handy for that. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 22:07:40 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 18:07:40 -0400 Subject: assorted hardware for free In-Reply-To: <22e435080705011346w52e26117tf5c9763d0d5b8a52-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1177899124.24646.24.camel@localhost> <22e435080705011346w52e26117tf5c9763d0d5b8a52@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070501220740.GT5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 01, 2007 at 04:46:28PM -0400, Sheldon Mustard wrote: > I think it was a IBM 486 CPU (aka Blue Lightning). I used one of these for > quite a while back in the day, an early version of debian iirc. I think I > did > the install on another thinkpad with cdrom and swapped the hds. Was that one of the CPUs that shared design with cyrix or did that only happen later with the M6 or whatever that cyrix was called? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 22:15:35 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 18:15:35 -0400 Subject: desktop system for sale !cheap! In-Reply-To: <4637A707.2010909-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <4637A707.2010909@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <20070501221535.GU5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 01, 2007 at 10:45:59PM +0200, Christopher Friedt wrote: > I just thought I'd mention again that I have a fairly recent amd64 > desktop system for sale. I'm willing to give it away for extremely > cheap. The only reason I'm selling it is that I'm out of the country for > an extended period of time & don't have anywhere to store it. > > Please email me off-list if you're interested. > > The specs are listed below: > > ======================= $ 450 ============================== > > Processor: AMD Athlon64 3000+ ( up to 2.4 GHz, Socket 939) > Chipset: VIA K8T800 Pro > Graphics: ATI Radeon 9200 (64MB dedicated DDR RAM) > Memory: 1GB PC3200 DDR RAM (up to 4GB) > Network: integrated Realtek 8110S gigabit ethernet adapter > MSI PC54G2 PCI Wireless-G (open-source ralink driver) > w/ external antenna > Audio: Realtek ALC850 8-Channel with SPDIF out (integrated) > Creative SB-Live (PCI) + gameport > Other MoBo features: > Both SATA / IDE controllers, RAID[01] controller, > ACPI power management, 2 x IEEE 1394a, > 8 USB ports (4 front), audio in front / back, IrDA, > Parallel port, Serial port > > Other things included: > 17-inch trinitron (flat, CRT) Monitor, > Micro$oft Sidewinder gamepad, surround speakers, > really nice black case, 2-channel KVM switcher, > 40GB hard drive. Micro$oft Natural Keyboard, > Logitech Optical wheel mouse, Dual Layer DVD-RW+/- > > ======================= $ 450 ============================== > > This machine is only approximately 17 months old. I've been away since > October and it's been doing absolutely nothing for 8 of those months. > > All hardware is 100% linux compatible, including OpenGL acceleration wth > the ATI graphics adapter using proprietary drivers. I thought the 9200 could actually run 3D with open source drivers. > Aside from linux enthusiasts, if anyone has a son or daughter going to > university soon, this would be an excellent way to save money instead of > buying a brand-new computer with all peripherals. > > The motherboard uses the same socket (939) as the newer multi-core AMD > processors, but i've only tested it with a single-core processor. Too bad only AM2 chips seem to be for sale anymore. Socket 939 seems to have totally disappeared. > I'm practically giving this machine away because i'm selling it for > $450. Originally I paid around $900 for the case, motherboard, ram, and > CPU - pci parts alone. The AGP card was originally $100, the Wireless > card was a special order for $130, and the audio card was originally > $100. The monitor was originally $100. I haven't taken any of the other > parts into my price approximation, but it's safe to say that I'm selling > it for less than 33% of the original price. Well a rough estimate of what parts similar to that would cost, reduced a bit for being used and difficult to find upgrades for anymore, your price seems fair. I don't need another PC at the moment though. Hopefully someone will want it. The chipset on the mainboard works great with linux (one of the servers at work has the same chipset although an asus board with a skge gigabit rather than realtek for networking). The HD is tiny, but drives are cheap. Both sound cards (onboard and add on) should work great with ALSA. I amsure you haven't had any linux issues with it. > Everything is in excellent condition except 1 channel in the surround > speakers doesn't work, but they're really old and better speaker systems > can be purchased relatively cheap. > > Please email me off-list if you're interested. > > the manufacturer's details are below: > > Motherboard: > http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K8T_Neo2-FIR > > Wireless PCI adapter: > http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=PC54G2 > http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/products/wireless/ > http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/wiki/index.php/Hardware -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 22:40:02 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 18:40:02 -0400 Subject: Linux and gaming - sapling program In-Reply-To: <20070425134019.GC5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990704241404n15704f96u29623f7a1ee53a53@mail.gmail.com> <20070424211356.GA5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1177462632.3862.104.camel@stan64.site> <20070425134019.GC5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990705011540g5c13801al7e9a8371d9a568f0@mail.gmail.com> I'm going to point out something but I won't say what. Here is a URL to my profile. The smart ones will understand what I mean even without visiting it. http://www.fallingleafsystems.com/forum/index.php?showuser=19 *pauses* user 19? http://www.fallingleafsystems.com/forum/index.php?showuser=4 If an admin is user 4, this means that I have even fewer peers. Here's a thread I posted http://www.fallingleafsystems.com/forum/index.php?act=findpost&pid=334 Not answered since Apr 24. Yet I see answers by an admin to other posts. .. strange. Well.. I'm not going to do the work to get their demo working. I'm recording this one as a donation, and I'll care about it when I get an email from them with an announcement. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jonzou-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 23:19:49 2007 From: jonzou-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jon) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 19:19:49 -0400 Subject: identify i/o process In-Reply-To: <20070501220633.GS5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4637A329.8090008@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20070501220633.GS5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3009c0a80705011619t679a2d4el490dcd02d0ff4192@mail.gmail.com> this is why I love solaris,with dtrace,it's as simple as iotop in linux part echo 1 > /proc/sys/vm/block_dump and dmesg might be the close solution On 5/1/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Tue, May 01, 2007 at 04:29:29PM -0400, Jose wrote: > > I am having problem with a server, ti slows down and the disk i/o goes > > to 100%, I couldn't figure out how to run ps to allow me to see which > > process is the one giving me the trouble, does anybody know how to > > identify process doing lots of disk i/o? > > > > Thanks in advance for your help > > Well any process stuck waiting for IO will be in state 'D', so you could > look for those (using ps or top or whatever you prefer). I imagine > there are tools to find out what is doing io but I haven't ever needed > to find out badly enough to figure that out. > > vmstat is also handy for showing how much io and swap is taking place. > After all if you are constantly swapping you will see lots of disk io. > vmstat 1 or vmstat 5 or something is handy for that. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 23:32:10 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 19:32:10 -0400 Subject: Linux and gaming - sapling program In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705011540g5c13801al7e9a8371d9a568f0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990704241404n15704f96u29623f7a1ee53a53@mail.gmail.com> <20070424211356.GA5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1177462632.3862.104.camel@stan64.site> <20070425134019.GC5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705011540g5c13801al7e9a8371d9a568f0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1178062330.3263.45.camel@stan64.site> ah they missed the oldest rule in the book, when exposing membership account numbers in URL, always start your system of at some random number and 6 digits in length. See how happy you'd be then :) -tl On Tue, 2007-05-01 at 18:40 -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > I'm going to point out something but I won't say what. Here is a URL > to my profile. The smart ones will understand what I mean even > without visiting it. > http://www.fallingleafsystems.com/forum/index.php?showuser=19 > > *pauses* > > user 19? > > http://www.fallingleafsystems.com/forum/index.php?showuser=4 > If an admin is user 4, this means that I have even fewer peers. > > Here's a thread I posted > http://www.fallingleafsystems.com/forum/index.php?act=findpost&pid=334 > > Not answered since Apr 24. Yet I see answers by an admin to other posts. > > .. strange. > > Well.. > I'm not going to do the work to get their demo working. I'm recording > this one as a donation, and I'll care about it when I get an email > from them with an announcement. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 23:36:41 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 19:36:41 -0400 Subject: options for buying 1 U appliances In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200705011936.41892.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Tuesday 01 May 2007 10:45:58 Scott C. Ripley wrote: > Linux Journal often has ads for: > http://www.mbx.com/oem/branding_capabilities/ > http://www.asacomputers.com And another advertising lately is http://www.ironsystems.com/ -- Fraser Campbell Georgetown, Ontario, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 23:35:18 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 19:35:18 -0400 Subject: Dirty Hydro? Message-ID: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176@mail.gmail.com> Hey all, hope thing's have been good for TLUGgers the last few months. Quite a bit's happened on my end, having accumulated several thousand mail messages while I've been offline. While I'm going through those, I'm hoping someone on the list might be able to answer a quick question... I've moved back to Hamilton, into an older building. The system I had was intermittently hanging, so I started to upgrade. I've now replaced everything except the CD-RW drive but this new system is doing exactly the same thing (albiet much more frequently.) It's been about 10-15 years since I've done serious electrical or electronics work and I'm not sure if what I'm seeing constitutes "dirty hydro." I picked up a digital multimeter and started checking the outlets here - the voltages appear to be fluctuating between 118.5V and 120.5V roughly 5-8 times per second in steps of about +/- 0.35V. Before I go purchase a line conditioner or an isolation transformer, does anyone onlist have any suggestions or comments? As always, TIA! - Scott -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed May 2 00:20:24 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 20:20:24 -0400 Subject: identify i/o process In-Reply-To: <4637A329.8090008-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <4637A329.8090008@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <200705012020.24304.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Tuesday 01 May 2007 16:29:29 Jose wrote: > I am having problem with a server, ti slows down and the disk i/o goes > to 100%, I couldn't figure out how to run ps to allow me to see which > process is the one giving me the trouble, does anybody know how to > identify process doing lots of disk i/o? There is the manual way ... iostat can show you which particular devices are getting most io (so can sar over longer periods). You could then use lsof to see what open files are on that device, ps looking for processes waiting for I/O (state D). There are some automated ways ... If your distribution supports systemtap that should be the best way though the learning curve isn't short. IBM has a good presentation on systemtap that includes specific examples of how to find "Top IO Users by Process ID" and "Top IO Users by User ID" ... http://sourceware.org/systemtap/wiki/HomePage?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=LWESFO06.pdf -- Fraser Campbell Georgetown, Ontario, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 2 00:46:22 2007 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 20:46:22 -0400 Subject: Dirty Hydro? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4637DF5E.60908@rogers.com> Scott Elcomb wrote: > It's been about 10-15 years since I've done serious electrical or > electronics work and I'm not sure if what I'm seeing constitutes > "dirty hydro." I picked up a digital multimeter and started checking > the outlets here - the voltages appear to be fluctuating between > 118.5V and 120.5V roughly 5-8 times per second in steps of about +/- > 0.35V. > That magnitude of fluctuation should not be a problem at all. But with the price of a UPS below $100, why not get one and make sure that the power going to your PC is clean, And those 2 second power hiccups don't crash your system. Cheers Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 2 00:53:56 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 20:53:56 -0400 Subject: Dirty Hydro? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4637E124.3090705@rogers.com> Scott Elcomb wrote: > Hey all, hope thing's have been good for TLUGgers the last few months. > Quite a bit's happened on my end, having accumulated several thousand > mail messages while I've been offline. While I'm going through those, > I'm hoping someone on the list might be able to answer a quick > question... > > I've moved back to Hamilton, into an older building. The system I had > was intermittently hanging, so I started to upgrade. I've now > replaced everything except the CD-RW drive but this new system is > doing exactly the same thing (albiet much more frequently.) > > It's been about 10-15 years since I've done serious electrical or > electronics work and I'm not sure if what I'm seeing constitutes > "dirty hydro." I picked up a digital multimeter and started checking > the outlets here - the voltages appear to be fluctuating between > 118.5V and 120.5V roughly 5-8 times per second in steps of about +/- > 0.35V. > > Before I go purchase a line conditioner or an isolation transformer, > does anyone onlist have any suggestions or comments? > > As always, TIA! > - Scott > Your power does seem a bit erratic. The best thing, is to get a UPS. It should smooth things out a bit. Also beyond changing voltage, a multimeter won't tell you much. There are power line analyzers that can tell you much more. Also those voltage changes could indicate wiring problems, particularly if you've got aluminum wiring. That's something that should be investigated. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed May 2 01:01:48 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 21:01:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: is LPIC Certifications Respected in industry. In-Reply-To: References: <32f6a8880704261608h7e6732b0p5bdc8628d0485f67@mail.gmail.com> <20070427212718.GJ5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Apr 2007, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > After 12 years of living in Canada as a fucken in fact immmigrant I have now > a better view and am not afraid to express myself. Hi Zbigniew. I'm an immigrant (4 years) too so I felt like commenting. > This society is sick, sick with purpose. It imports a lot well educated > people but just exploits them after they are here. This is a sort of Hmm... I can't say I feel exploited. There are definitely problems. Research shows educated immigrants trail behind similarly qualified Canadians in income even after 10 years here. Immigrant experiences are across the board however. I can say I've been very happy with my career since arriving in Canada. I come from Australia so no doubt integrating in to Canada was easier for me than it would be for someone from Egypt or even eastern Europe since I already spoke English as a first language and found the pervading culture similar to what I was used to at home[1]. [1] Having said this, there are more differences than one might expect. Soon after arriving I likened the change to having everything shifted 15 degrees. It all looks the same in the big picture but there are just enough small differences to make you stop and think. As an example, I was at a picnic here one day and we were packing up the car. When asked, I suggested to a friend to she her bags in the boot. She stared at me like I'd just arrived from Mars. Why would anyone store there bags in a boot? My wife translated this to "trunk" for her. There are a lot of serious examples such as learning what an RRSP is and why no one has a clue what you mean when you talk about superannuation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superannuation_in_Australia Similarly the idea of paying income tax to a province was odd to me. Australian states surrendered the power to levy income tax during World War II. I think they were supposed to get it back after the war but somehow it never happened. One thing that stunned me was that not everyone in the western world enjoys long service leave. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_service_leave Like I said, lots of small differences. Ok, I've waffled enough now :) Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 2 02:37:42 2007 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 22:37:42 -0400 Subject: Windows Vista restricts GNU GCC apps to 32 MB In-Reply-To: <20070501193733.GM5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990704281334l4ede0f4dj568544802372a102@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990704281641o150cb468t4307d7d92de6be79@mail.gmail.com> <20070501193733.GM5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200705012237.42810.amarjan@pobox.com> On May 1, 2007 03:37:33 pm Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Apr 28, 2007 at 07:41:28PM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > > I read it differently.. as it seems to read that it is a problem for > > anyone who writes with one codebase which is to be deployed broadly > > without any special vista-specific tweaks. > > > > Yes, old software may not generally require more than 32MB of memory.. > > but some of it sure does. > > I read it as: Anything using the standard C interfaces like malloc() > is limited to 32MB, while anything using the Win32 API calls can have > as much as it wants. Not quite. Since you've revived the thread and several people have been misled by the article, allow me to expound needlessly. I don't know to what extent he's confused and to what extent he's being intentionally inflammatory, but in a nutshell, he's complaining that a change/regression of the NT DOS emulator in Vista prevents DOS binaries from allocating more than 32 MB, and that the Windows C runtime library and compilers don't do what he wants them to do. First, DJGPP is a variant of GCC that produces DOS binaries. The guy uses DJGPP to produce DOS binaries that use extended memory managers to allocate hundreds of MB of memory. This works under DOS and DOS-derived OS's like Win98. NT has always had a limited DOS emulator. It's never worked with all DOS binaries, especially games. Apparently prior to Vista (and possibly WIn2k3), the NT DOS emulator allowed his DOS binaries to allocate all the memory they wanted. As of Vista, however, there's a cap of 32 MB. So much for the DOS part. On to the Windows part: Windows has a perfectly good C89 runtime built in, but this guy says the MS compiler doesn't support long long (for a long time a GCC extension and now I think part of C99), and better compilers don't support the GMP library. Your interpretation doesn't make much sense since the "standard C interfaces" have to be implemented in terms of the host OS's system calls. On Unix, malloc(3) is implemented in terms of brk(2). The Windows C runtime has a working malloc() implementation, that happens to be implemented in terms of the Win32 API (of which I'm blissfully ignorant so I can't name the relevant functions). Keep in mind that Win32 is *the* system API of Vista (the NT kernel has its own API that Win32 sits on top of, but it's hidden entirely behind Win32). A *Win32* binary that links against the Windows C runtime and uses only C89 functions, can have as much RAM as it wants. This problem is strictly related to *DOS* binaries running in the DOS *emulator* on Vista. So, this is a really long-winded way to say that, in the grand scheme of things, he's making a mountain out of a molehill. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed May 2 04:14:23 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 00:14:23 -0400 Subject: Dirty Hydro? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1178079263.3263.65.camel@stan64.site> see if you can do the test at your neighbour. if its ok there, then sound to me like you either have something in your house that pulls up the ground in cycles, as per your statement, or you have a bum transform. i could imagine a dehumidifer, or something with a motor, that is pulsating on a motor restriction at 5t/s pulling up your ground (old houses can have crappy or cheated grounds). you could have a shit multimeter as well but i doubt that. but i do my own house wiring, and have multimetered many a home, i have never seen a cycle like your taking unless there is some bad ass appliance near by. but even with that cycle, most stuff in your home should work fine. I'd be more concerned with why its doing for other reasons and be proactive against something that could be bad. -tl On Tue, 2007-05-01 at 19:35 -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Hey all, hope thing's have been good for TLUGgers the last few months. > Quite a bit's happened on my end, having accumulated several thousand > mail messages while I've been offline. While I'm going through those, > I'm hoping someone on the list might be able to answer a quick > question... > > I've moved back to Hamilton, into an older building. The system I had > was intermittently hanging, so I started to upgrade. I've now > replaced everything except the CD-RW drive but this new system is > doing exactly the same thing (albiet much more frequently.) > > It's been about 10-15 years since I've done serious electrical or > electronics work and I'm not sure if what I'm seeing constitutes > "dirty hydro." I picked up a digital multimeter and started checking > the outlets here - the voltages appear to be fluctuating between > 118.5V and 120.5V roughly 5-8 times per second in steps of about +/- > 0.35V. > > Before I go purchase a line conditioner or an isolation transformer, > does anyone onlist have any suggestions or comments? > > As always, TIA! > - Scott > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 2 04:28:26 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 00:28:26 -0400 Subject: is LPIC Certifications Respected in industry. In-Reply-To: References: <32f6a8880704261608h7e6732b0p5bdc8628d0485f67@mail.gmail.com> <20070427212718.GJ5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <22e435080705012128j4271df88m60534685e4a64703@mail.gmail.com> On 5/1/07, Robert Brockway wrote: > > One thing that stunned me was that not everyone in the western world > enjoys long service leave. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_service_leave > Well I would vote for a politician (or party) who had this as part of the platform. I am guessing the "business elite" may not contribute to his campaign ... SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed May 2 07:26:41 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 09:26:41 +0200 Subject: Dirty Hydro? In-Reply-To: <1178079263.3263.65.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176@mail.gmail.com> <1178079263.3263.65.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <46383D31.2060706@visible-assets.com> A decent power supply in your computer should be able to handle a swing of +/- 5 V from 120V AC no problem, that's a margin of less than +/- 5%. In your case, the margin is even smaller. Quite often a power supply will also be rated for something like 115-230V. I would check your power supply rating and also see how much power it can deliver. What happens exactly to your computer? Does it just freeze? Does it reboot randomly? I had that problem a while ago, and I realized that I naively had put too many components into my box and they were drawing too much power than my older cheap PSU could reliably deliver. (For those that read my ad for a computer to sell, no worries, I am speaking of its predecessor). One of my old professors actually gave me some invaluable advice - never go cheap when considering the power supply for your computer (or anything for that matter), because you never know if the mainboard could actually suffer long term damage from dropping below minimum operating voltages. Quite often, if it drops below a minimum operating voltage, the system will reboot itself or just hang. If it reboots, that's the mainboard trying to protect itself. When it hangs, all of the components on the board are under some stress. For instance, they could be pushing or pulling more current than normal and the silicon could suffer from some long term injuries. ~/Chris tleslie wrote: > see if you can do the test at your neighbour. > > if its ok there, then sound to me like you either have > something in your house that pulls up the ground in cycles, > as per your statement, > or you have a bum transform. > > i could imagine a dehumidifer, or something with a motor, > that is pulsating on a motor restriction at 5t/s > pulling up your ground (old houses can have crappy or cheated grounds). > > you could have a shit multimeter as well but i doubt that. > > but i do my own house wiring, and have multimetered > many a home, i have never seen a cycle like your taking unless > there is some bad ass appliance near by. > > but even with that cycle, most stuff in your home should work fine. > I'd be more concerned with why its doing for other reasons > and be proactive against something that could be bad. > > > > -tl > > > > On Tue, 2007-05-01 at 19:35 -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> Hey all, hope thing's have been good for TLUGgers the last few months. >> Quite a bit's happened on my end, having accumulated several thousand >> mail messages while I've been offline. While I'm going through those, >> I'm hoping someone on the list might be able to answer a quick >> question... >> >> I've moved back to Hamilton, into an older building. The system I had >> was intermittently hanging, so I started to upgrade. I've now >> replaced everything except the CD-RW drive but this new system is >> doing exactly the same thing (albiet much more frequently.) >> >> It's been about 10-15 years since I've done serious electrical or >> electronics work and I'm not sure if what I'm seeing constitutes >> "dirty hydro." I picked up a digital multimeter and started checking >> the outlets here - the voltages appear to be fluctuating between >> 118.5V and 120.5V roughly 5-8 times per second in steps of about +/- >> 0.35V. >> >> Before I go purchase a line conditioner or an isolation transformer, >> does anyone onlist have any suggestions or comments? >> >> As always, TIA! >> - Scott >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 2 10:22:03 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 06:22:03 -0400 Subject: Dirty Hydro? In-Reply-To: <1178079263.3263.65.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176@mail.gmail.com> <1178079263.3263.65.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <4638664B.6050102@rogers.com> tleslie wrote: > see if you can do the test at your neighbour. > > if its ok there, then sound to me like you either have > something in your house that pulls up the ground in cycles, > as per your statement, > or you have a bum transform. > > i could imagine a dehumidifer, or something with a motor, > that is pulsating on a motor restriction at 5t/s > pulling up your ground (old houses can have crappy or cheated grounds). > > The ground wire must *NEVER* be used as a conductor. It's there as a safety measure, should there be a circuit defect. The neutral is the return path. It's common to see a voltage change, when a heavy appliance is turned on or off, but that should only happen once, not continuously. A change that happens several times per second usually indicates a potential problem. As I mentioned in another note, aluminum wiring can cause this behaviour. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 2 12:31:59 2007 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 08:31:59 -0400 Subject: identify i/o process In-Reply-To: <20070501220633.GS5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4637A329.8090008@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20070501220633.GS5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1178109119.5772.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> On Tue, 2007-05-01 at 18:06 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 01, 2007 at 04:29:29PM -0400, Jose wrote: > > I am having problem with a server, ti slows down and the disk i/o goes > > to 100%, I couldn't figure out how to run ps to allow me to see which > > process is the one giving me the trouble, does anybody know how to > > identify process doing lots of disk i/o? > > > > Thanks in advance for your help Probably unrelated, but if you are using OpenSuSE 10.1, it has a known bug with the beagle program. "top" will show beagle-helper as the top process. Beagle-helper gets stuck in an infinite loop and makes the CPU go to 100% and can use up a lot of disk space. If this is the problem, uninstall beagle. KB -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed May 2 12:45:43 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 08:45:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Dirty Hydro? In-Reply-To: <4638664B.6050102-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176@mail.gmail.com> <1178079263.3263.65.camel@stan64.site> <4638664B.6050102@rogers.com> Message-ID: <50836.207.188.88.121.1178109943.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > As I mentioned in another note, aluminum > wiring can cause this behaviour. > One of my consultant friends, Harold Anderson, helped a neighbour who complained of random dimming of lights and erratic operation of appliances. Harold suspected an aluminum wiring problem and found the location with a cheap transistor radio. The idea is that the the bad connection in the wiring causes electrical transients that generate radio-frequency signals, which can be heard on the AM radio band. The ferrite loopstick antenna of a cheap AM radio is directional, so you can rotate the radio to get some idea of the direction of the noise source. As you get closer, the noise gets louder. In this case, Harold identified a junction box as the source and a bad connection in that box as the problem. Needless to say, the neighbour was very pleased to get this fixed. Aluminum wiring problems can lead to a fire. An AM radio is a good investment for anyone who has to track down electrical noise sources - and it's a lot less expensive than an RF speectrum analyser. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 2 17:23:30 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 13:23:30 -0400 Subject: is LPIC Certifications Respected in industry. In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880704261608h7e6732b0p5bdc8628d0485f67-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880704261608h7e6732b0p5bdc8628d0485f67@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 4/26/07, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > Can people give me there input on what they think about LPI ceritfications > and if it makes people stand out when > they have this certification (LPIC1 and LPIC2?) This is a tough call. Because of horror stories (hearsay, of course) about MCSE's who had no clue about how to tune a Windows server, I would tend to discount someone with any kind of certification. That doesn't mean I'd ignore their resume completely. I expect that the worth of a certification depends on whether the software professional reading the resume *has* a certification or not. Human Resources staff (bless their hearts) aren't usually as up on the various technical terms, and probably do prefer certification because it's something that's measurable. (Any HR types in attendance, please speak up.) I had a conversation with Google a while back, and one of the things that I took away from the chat was that I needed to get back to the books. That's why I'm reading my latest O'Relly purchase cover to cover -- 650 pages on HTTP. I have another 800 pages or so on AJAX to read after that. I used Wireshark recently to diagnose a problem with a server, and seeing SYN and SYN+ACK fly back and forth reminded me of my very valuable and relevant experience in datacomm back in the 80's. And I finally got around to getting one of my new projects running using ModPerl::Registry, and was rewarded with a 95% improvement in speed, which made my day. I don't plan on getting certification for any of this -- I plan to use this knowledge in as many projects as I can, though, because that's what I expect to talk up with any future potential employer. If you can show them that you've got a really good handle on a variety of technologies, and that you're willing to pick up new stuff, you'll be in fine shape. Never allow yourself to slide into the safety zone of "I've learned all I need to know" -- in the field of software development and systems administration, that's definitely a Career Limiting Move. Good luck. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 2 19:22:06 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 15:22:06 -0400 Subject: identify i/o process In-Reply-To: <1178109119.5772.2.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4637A329.8090008@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20070501220633.GS5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1178109119.5772.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <4638E4DE.60904@utoronto.ca> Ken Burtch wrote: > On Tue, 2007-05-01 at 18:06 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Tue, May 01, 2007 at 04:29:29PM -0400, Jose wrote: >>> I am having problem with a server, ti slows down and the disk i/o goes >>> to 100%, I couldn't figure out how to run ps to allow me to see which >>> process is the one giving me the trouble, does anybody know how to >>> identify process doing lots of disk i/o? >>> >>> Thanks in advance for your help > > Probably unrelated, but if you are using OpenSuSE 10.1, it has a known > bug with the beagle program. "top" will show beagle-helper as the top > process. Beagle-helper gets stuck in an infinite loop and makes the CPU > go to 100% and can use up a lot of disk space. If this is the problem, > uninstall beagle. > > KB > Pretty much any version of Beagle that I've used on Debian, Fedora, Ubuntu, and openSuSE have done that to me, so I gave up on it a while back. I've recently compiled and am enjoying using recoll, a tool with much the same functionality, but with much less overhead. linux.com had an article on it a few weeks ago: http://applications.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/04/16/1831255 Download it here: http://www.lesbonscomptes.com/recoll/index.html Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed May 2 20:25:25 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 16:25:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux and gaming - sapling program In-Reply-To: <1178062330.3263.45.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990704241404n15704f96u29623f7a1ee53a53@mail.gmail.com> <20070424211356.GA5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1177462632.3862.104.camel@stan64.site> <20070425134019.GC5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705011540g5c13801al7e9a8371d9a568f0@mail.gmail.com> <1178062330.3263.45.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 May 2007, tleslie wrote: > ah they missed the oldest rule in the book, > when exposing membership account numbers in URL, always > start your system of at some random number and 6 digits in length. This rules applies in accounting too. When starting a new business do not start numbering your invoices at "1". Imagine how happy that client would be :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 2 20:42:51 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 16:42:51 -0400 Subject: Linux and gaming - sapling program In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990704241404n15704f96u29623f7a1ee53a53@mail.gmail.com> <20070424211356.GA5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1177462632.3862.104.camel@stan64.site> <20070425134019.GC5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705011540g5c13801al7e9a8371d9a568f0@mail.gmail.com> <1178062330.3263.45.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <22e435080705021342m7a42a3f0l2c5be8c125e6a497@mail.gmail.com> On 5/2/07, Robert Brockway wrote: > > This rules applies in accounting too. When starting a new business do not > start numbering your invoices at "1". > should start at 0. SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 2 20:43:28 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 16:43:28 -0400 Subject: identify i/o process In-Reply-To: <3009c0a80705011619t679a2d4el490dcd02d0ff4192-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4637A329.8090008@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20070501220633.GS5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3009c0a80705011619t679a2d4el490dcd02d0ff4192@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070502204328.GV5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 01, 2007 at 07:19:49PM -0400, jon wrote: > this is why I love solaris,with dtrace,it's as simple as iotop I guess you mean you love solaris 10, rather than solaris in general. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 2 20:45:25 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 16:45:25 -0400 Subject: Dirty Hydro? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070502204525.GW5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 01, 2007 at 07:35:18PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Hey all, hope thing's have been good for TLUGgers the last few months. > Quite a bit's happened on my end, having accumulated several thousand > mail messages while I've been offline. While I'm going through those, > I'm hoping someone on the list might be able to answer a quick > question... > > I've moved back to Hamilton, into an older building. The system I had > was intermittently hanging, so I started to upgrade. I've now > replaced everything except the CD-RW drive but this new system is > doing exactly the same thing (albiet much more frequently.) > > It's been about 10-15 years since I've done serious electrical or > electronics work and I'm not sure if what I'm seeing constitutes > "dirty hydro." I picked up a digital multimeter and started checking > the outlets here - the voltages appear to be fluctuating between > 118.5V and 120.5V roughly 5-8 times per second in steps of about +/- > 0.35V. > > Before I go purchase a line conditioner or an isolation transformer, > does anyone onlist have any suggestions or comments? Well not sure, but I would think any power supply that isn't crap would deal with that just fine. It is only a 2% fluctuation which should hardly cause a blip once you reach the capacitors of the voltage regulator of the system. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 2 20:56:17 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 16:56:17 -0400 Subject: is LPIC Certifications Respected in industry. In-Reply-To: References: <32f6a8880704261608h7e6732b0p5bdc8628d0485f67@mail.gmail.com> <20070427212718.GJ5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070502205617.GX5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 01, 2007 at 09:01:48PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi Zbigniew. I'm an immigrant (4 years) too so I felt like commenting. Well I got here at age 13 about 19 years ago. > Hmm... I can't say I feel exploited. There are definitely problems. > Research shows educated immigrants trail behind similarly qualified > Canadians in income even after 10 years here. Immigrant experiences are > across the board however. I can say I've been very happy with my career > since arriving in Canada. > > I come from Australia so no doubt integrating in to Canada was easier for > me than it would be for someone from Egypt or even eastern Europe since I > already spoke English as a first language and found the pervading culture > similar to what I was used to at home[1]. Some smartass people might claim that isn't English. :) > [1] Having said this, there are more differences than one might expect. > Soon after arriving I likened the change to having everything shifted 15 > degrees. It all looks the same in the big picture but there are just > enough small differences to make you stop and think. > > As an example, I was at a picnic here one day and we were packing up the > car. When asked, I suggested to a friend to she her bags in the boot. > She stared at me like I'd just arrived from Mars. Why would anyone store > there bags in a boot? My wife translated this to "trunk" for her. I guess Australia is a bit too British there. > There are a lot of serious examples such as learning what an RRSP is and > why no one has a clue what you mean when you talk about superannuation. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superannuation_in_Australia > > Similarly the idea of paying income tax to a province was odd to me. > Australian states surrendered the power to levy income tax during World > War II. I think they were supposed to get it back after the war but > somehow it never happened. > > One thing that stunned me was that not everyone in the western world > enjoys long service leave. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_service_leave > > Like I said, lots of small differences. > > Ok, I've waffled enough now :) Wouldn't it be boring if everything was the same? What would be the point of moving then? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 2 21:04:54 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 17:04:54 -0400 Subject: Windows Vista restricts GNU GCC apps to 32 MB In-Reply-To: <200705012237.42810.amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990704281334l4ede0f4dj568544802372a102@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990704281641o150cb468t4307d7d92de6be79@mail.gmail.com> <20070501193733.GM5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200705012237.42810.amarjan@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20070502210454.GY5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 01, 2007 at 10:37:42PM -0400, Andrej Marjan wrote: > Not quite. Since you've revived the thread and several people have been misled > by the article, allow me to expound needlessly. > > I don't know to what extent he's confused and to what extent he's being > intentionally inflammatory, but in a nutshell, he's complaining that a > change/regression of the NT DOS emulator in Vista prevents DOS binaries from > allocating more than 32 MB, and that the Windows C runtime library and > compilers don't do what he wants them to do. > > First, DJGPP is a variant of GCC that produces DOS binaries. The guy uses > DJGPP to produce DOS binaries that use extended memory managers to allocate > hundreds of MB of memory. This works under DOS and DOS-derived OS's like > Win98. > > NT has always had a limited DOS emulator. It's never worked with all DOS > binaries, especially games. Apparently prior to Vista (and possibly WIn2k3), > the NT DOS emulator allowed his DOS binaries to allocate all the memory they > wanted. As of Vista, however, there's a cap of 32 MB. > > So much for the DOS part. > > On to the Windows part: Windows has a perfectly good C89 runtime built in, but > this guy says the MS compiler doesn't support long long (for a long time a > GCC extension and now I think part of C99), and better compilers don't > support the GMP library. > > Your interpretation doesn't make much sense since the "standard C interfaces" > have to be implemented in terms of the host OS's system calls. On Unix, > malloc(3) is implemented in terms of brk(2). The Windows C runtime has a > working malloc() implementation, that happens to be implemented in terms of > the Win32 API (of which I'm blissfully ignorant so I can't name the relevant > functions). Keep in mind that Win32 is *the* system API of Vista (the NT > kernel has its own API that Win32 sits on top of, but it's hidden entirely > behind Win32). > > A *Win32* binary that links against the Windows C runtime and uses only C89 > functions, can have as much RAM as it wants. This problem is strictly related > to *DOS* binaries running in the DOS *emulator* on Vista. > > So, this is a really long-winded way to say that, in the grand scheme of > things, he's making a mountain out of a molehill. Well now it makes more sense (I was wondering what DPMI had to do with anything before since I only rememberd that from DOS days, and DJGPP also sounded like DOS). OK this guy needs to start writing his code to work with windows if he wants it to work on windows. Lots of other peopel seem to manage to share code and just have a small bit of system specific code as glue. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed May 2 23:01:17 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 19:01:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: is LPIC Certifications Respected in industry. In-Reply-To: <20070502205617.GX5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880704261608h7e6732b0p5bdc8628d0485f67@mail.gmail.com> <20070427212718.GJ5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070502205617.GX5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 May 2007, Lennart Sorensen wrote: I wrote: >> I come from Australia so no doubt integrating in to Canada was easier for >> me than it would be for someone from Egypt or even eastern Europe since I >> already spoke English as a first language and found the pervading culture >> similar to what I was used to at home[1]. > > Some smartass people might claim that isn't English. :) ROTFL. You know I actually did look over that sentence to see if I should reword it :) >> As an example, I was at a picnic here one day and we were packing up the >> car. When asked, I suggested to a friend to she her bags in the boot. >> She stared at me like I'd just arrived from Mars. Why would anyone store >> there bags in a boot? My wife translated this to "trunk" for her. > > I guess Australia is a bit too British there. Only after living in Canada for a while did I realise how similar Britain and Australia are culturally. > Wouldn't it be boring if everything was the same? What would be the > point of moving then? You are quite right. Part of the reason I wanted to live in Canada was because things would be different. So where are you from originally Len? Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 00:05:37 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 20:05:37 -0400 Subject: Linux and gaming - sapling program In-Reply-To: <1178062330.3263.45.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990704241404n15704f96u29623f7a1ee53a53@mail.gmail.com> <20070424211356.GA5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1177462632.3862.104.camel@stan64.site> <20070425134019.GC5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705011540g5c13801al7e9a8371d9a568f0@mail.gmail.com> <1178062330.3263.45.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <1e55af990705021705t670a3b51j8d925dfa65510143@mail.gmail.com> On 5/1/07, tleslie wrote: > ah they missed the oldest rule in the book, > when exposing membership account numbers in URL, always > start your system of at some random number and 6 digits in length. > See how happy you'd be then :) And expose your forums so that lots of anonymous and non-donating members can post to add a little filler. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 04:09:08 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 00:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Speaker for May 8 In-Reply-To: <462D6FE0.5010402-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <462D6FE0.5010402@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Apr 2007, Jamon Camisso wrote: > J.T.S Moore of Revolution OS directorial, writerly, and production fame has > said that we can screen the film. I think Teddy also got in touch with him. > I'll dig up the email and forward it to the list. Hi Jamon. Just a reminder that the screening has been scheduled for the May 8 meeting. Yeah I know this is going to the list, it'll be extra advertising for the screening :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 10:24:32 2007 From: slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slackrat) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 12:24:32 +0200 Subject: Gatez goes to China Message-ID: <87slaeurvj.fsf@azurservers.com> Scroll down and click the vid if you don't Polly-Voo http://framablog.org/index.php/post/2007/04/26/Bravitude-Chine-Bill-Gates-Free-Software -- Regards, Slackrat [Bill Henderson] [No _4Q_ for direct email] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bchaffin72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 15:48:47 2007 From: bchaffin72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Brice Chaffin) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 11:48:47 -0400 Subject: Seeking opinions Message-ID: <1178207327.6782.1.camel@bcc> Hi all, I am looking for advice on how to get started with Linux as a career. I face some pros and cons in this quest. Pros: I usually learn quickly I consider loyalty important I love working with technology Cons: I have no official experience or certification, just personal experience. My question is: How does someone get started from such a position? I have been into computers and technology for years. I have been a Linux user for six years, and have used several distributions on different platforms in that time. I have tried to expand my knowledge and concentrate on practical skills. I have some programming ability, but am more interested in system administration. I also do most of my own PC assembly and maintainence, so I am a fair technician as well. I'd appreciate any suggestions. Thanks. Brice -- "There is no other wisdom and no other hope for us but that we become wise." Surak of Vulcan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 16:53:12 2007 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 12:53:12 -0400 Subject: Digital contract signatures [ non-linux topic, nerd topic ] Message-ID: <20070503165312.GA20907@md5.ca> Hello, I wonder if anyone uses digital contract signatures, like GnuPG signed email messages, sent and replied to. If this has legal precedent of being somewhat legally binding. Just wondering if it has any legal standing in terms of protection. Since GnuPG signatures generally are harder to fake then handwritten ones, if I am not mistaken. This should make storage regular contracts alot easier. Also it is a pain and detrement to nature, flying around documents no matter how good it feels to have actual piece of paper in the hand and then in the file to cover your rear end. What are your thoughts on usefulness in real world business, that is slanted towards nerds. I can make guesses on the topic, but wonder if any one had real experience with that. TIA, Pavel -- Create like God. Command like a King. Work like a Slave. http://arslogic.com | http://arslogic.com/resume.pdf direct: 416-564-5255 | fax: 416-596-0128 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 17:00:51 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 13:00:51 -0400 Subject: Seeking opinions In-Reply-To: <1178207327.6782.1.camel@bcc> References: <1178207327.6782.1.camel@bcc> Message-ID: <1178211651.3151.32.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 11:48 -0400, Brice Chaffin wrote: > I am looking for advice on how to get started with Linux as a career. > > I face some pros and cons in this quest. > > Pros: > > I usually learn quickly > I consider loyalty important > I love working with technology > > Cons: > > I have no official experience or certification, just personal > experience. > > > My question is: How does someone get started from such a position? > I have been into computers and technology for years. I have been a > Linux user for six years, and have used several distributions on > different platforms in that time. I have tried to expand my knowledge > and concentrate on practical skills. I have some programming ability, > but am more interested in system administration. I also do most of my > own PC assembly and maintainence, so I am a fair technician as well. > > > I'd appreciate any suggestions. Thanks. Well you have two of the big points covered: quick learning, and enthusiastic. I have found that really successful IT people are enthusiasts who spend a lot of time learning and experimenting and look at technical problems as interesting challenges. That is a generalism, because I also know people who are good at what they do but don't have enough passion to work after hours on it, they rely on other skills to be useful. It sounds like you have some good base experience that you can leverage, but I have seen individuals with those same qualifications (plus formal education) have trouble dealing with the subtleties and scale of business systems. Most businesses will not hire a person without experience and without relevant formal education. Holding certifications will help, but it's not a guarantee. So I think you have three choices: enroll in college or university, obtain certifications, or try starting your own business. College and university, although very time consuming, is the long-term best approach. Coop courses provide needed income and experience. Certifications are a riskier route. Many of the training facilities (like Nexient) and colleges will offer certification tracks that take about year, cost more than a three year college course but, if you interview well, can get you an entry level position. They are mostly based on Microsoft (has anyone seen a Open Source version) but contain Novell and Cisco certifications as well. I usually pass over these candidates because they are less rounded (usually no programming or business skills.) Starting your own business is another problem. It can take a long time to generate enough business to make a full time income and if you haven't already worked in the IT industry it can be intimidating approaching even medium sized businesses. Still, now is a good time. I feel Linux is nearing the tipping point and the next few years may see a huge vacuum in the Linux skills market. Here is my advice: 1. Choose where you want to go. Is it software development, web development, system administration, systems integration (e.g. installing new systems/services,) support, embedded systems, training, etc. 2. Be social. Attend LUG meetings and/or be active on the lists. The most successful people usually have very good people skills. Look for other groups to become part of (TAUG, PerlMongers, etc.) 3. Get more experience. If it's programming, sysadmin, or integration look for non-profit organizations that need IT support. Many won't have much money and will welcome volunteer work. This may include official non-profits as well as community events. Push for Linux and open source. It can do everything that Microsoft software does. 4. For programming experience pick an interesting software project and start donating code. They often have a feature wish list that you could tackle. 5. Talk to the colleges and universities about courses. This is your long-term best chance for a successful career. I hope it helps. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 17:16:26 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 13:16:26 -0400 Subject: Seeking opinions In-Reply-To: <1178207327.6782.1.camel@bcc> References: <1178207327.6782.1.camel@bcc> Message-ID: <22e435080705031016g6cc18ff4o4134066f4be7810a@mail.gmail.com> On 5/3/07, Brice Chaffin wrote: > > My question is: How does someone get started from such a position? > Well you can go the route which most sysadmins do and get enough degrees/diplomas/certs that a large organization will let you learn on the job and learn from other sysadmins. Lets be honest only large organization really require dedicated sysadmins (SMBs need generalist). My personal opinion about the situation is there should be a traditional apprenticeship program to get some qualification. Obviously I think many in IT and sysadmin field don't like that idea because it moves away from the field as a profession. FWIW I think software development is a profession, sysadmin is not (I play a sysadmin weekdays 9 to 5). SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 17:17:06 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 13:17:06 -0400 Subject: Seeking opinions In-Reply-To: <1178207327.6782.1.camel@bcc> References: <1178207327.6782.1.camel@bcc> Message-ID: On 5/3/07, Brice Chaffin wrote: > Hi all, > > I am looking for advice on how to get started with Linux as a career. > > I face some pros and cons in this quest. > > Pros: > > I usually learn quickly > I consider loyalty important > I love working with technology > > Cons: > > I have no official experience or certification, just personal > experience. > > > My question is: How does someone get started from such a position? > I have been into computers and technology for years. I have been a > Linux user for six years, and have used several distributions on > different platforms in that time. I have tried to expand my knowledge > and concentrate on practical skills. I have some programming ability, > but am more interested in system administration. I also do most of my > own PC assembly and maintainence, so I am a fair technician as well. > > > I'd appreciate any suggestions. Thanks. I'd add one word to what John said: volunteer. You can volunteer to provide technical support for some local non-profit; you can volunteer to join a project on SourceForge; you can volunteer to hang out on one of the IRC channels and help out people who know less than you do, and learn from people who know more. While it's possible to get a job without formal education or certification, it's probably a lot harder. I was very fortunate to be able to get a university education, but even doing community college part-time is a worth-while endeavour. I'm not so sure about certification, but that's probably a pet peeve. And, perhaps toughest of all, be social -- ask interesting questions and reply with interesting answers on the mailing lists; come out to the monthly meetings; make contacts; be sure that everyone knows what kind of work you do, and that you're looking for some. (This pre-supposes that *you* already know what that is.) Good luck. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bchaffin72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 17:17:50 2007 From: bchaffin72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Brice Chaffin) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 13:17:50 -0400 Subject: Seeking opinions In-Reply-To: <1178211651.3151.32.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1178207327.6782.1.camel@bcc> <1178211651.3151.32.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <1178212670.11484.5.camel@bcc> Thanks John. I did find that helpful in giving me some angles to consider. On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 13:00 -0400, John Van Ostrand wrote: > > Well you have two of the big points covered: quick learning, and > enthusiastic. I have found that really successful IT people are > enthusiasts who spend a lot of time learning and experimenting and look > at technical problems as interesting challenges. That is a generalism, > because I also know people who are good at what they do but don't have > enough passion to work after hours on it, they rely on other skills to > be useful. > > It sounds like you have some good base experience that you can leverage, > but I have seen individuals with those same qualifications (plus formal > education) have trouble dealing with the subtleties and scale of > business systems. > > Most businesses will not hire a person without experience and without > relevant formal education. Holding certifications will help, but it's > not a guarantee. > > So I think you have three choices: enroll in college or university, > obtain certifications, or try starting your own business. > > College and university, although very time consuming, is the long-term > best approach. Coop courses provide needed income and experience. > > Certifications are a riskier route. Many of the training facilities > (like Nexient) and colleges will offer certification tracks that take > about year, cost more than a three year college course but, if you > interview well, can get you an entry level position. They are mostly > based on Microsoft (has anyone seen a Open Source version) but contain > Novell and Cisco certifications as well. I usually pass over these > candidates because they are less rounded (usually no programming or > business skills.) > > Starting your own business is another problem. It can take a long time > to generate enough business to make a full time income and if you > haven't already worked in the IT industry it can be intimidating > approaching even medium sized businesses. > > Still, now is a good time. I feel Linux is nearing the tipping point and > the next few years may see a huge vacuum in the Linux skills market. > > > Here is my advice: > > 1. Choose where you want to go. Is it software development, web > development, system administration, systems integration (e.g. installing > new systems/services,) support, embedded systems, training, etc. > > 2. Be social. Attend LUG meetings and/or be active on the lists. The > most successful people usually have very good people skills. Look for > other groups to become part of (TAUG, PerlMongers, etc.) > > 3. Get more experience. If it's programming, sysadmin, or integration > look for non-profit organizations that need IT support. Many won't have > much money and will welcome volunteer work. This may include official > non-profits as well as community events. Push for Linux and open source. > It can do everything that Microsoft software does. > > 4. For programming experience pick an interesting software project and > start donating code. They often have a feature wish list that you could > tackle. > > 5. Talk to the colleges and universities about courses. This is your > long-term best chance for a successful career. > > I hope it helps. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- "There is no other wisdom and no other hope for us but that we become wise." Surak of Vulcan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bchaffin72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 17:55:15 2007 From: bchaffin72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Brice Chaffin) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 13:55:15 -0400 Subject: Seeking opinions In-Reply-To: <1178212670.11484.5.camel@bcc> References: <1178207327.6782.1.camel@bcc> <1178211651.3151.32.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <1178212670.11484.5.camel@bcc> Message-ID: <1178214915.4490.3.camel@bcc> Thanks also to everyone else who did or does respond. I appreciate it. On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 13:17 -0400, Brice Chaffin wrote: > Thanks John. I did find that helpful in giving me some angles to > consider. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 18:04:06 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 14:04:06 -0400 Subject: is LPIC Certifications Respected in industry. In-Reply-To: References: <32f6a8880704261608h7e6732b0p5bdc8628d0485f67@mail.gmail.com> <20070427212718.GJ5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070502205617.GX5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070503180406.GA8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 02, 2007 at 07:01:17PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > Only after living in Canada for a while did I realise how similar Britain > and Australia are culturally. It is of course at the same time very different than Britain. > You are quite right. Part of the reason I wanted to live in Canada was > because things would be different. > > So where are you from originally Len? Denmark. I have only met a few people from australia so far, and so far I get the impression everyone there must be nice. My wife actually has some family that lives in Perth although they were originally from canada. Interesting dialect of english they have there. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 18:01:31 2007 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 14:01:31 -0400 Subject: Seeking opinions In-Reply-To: <1178211651.3151.32.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1178207327.6782.1.camel@bcc> <1178211651.3151.32.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <20070503180131.GB20907@md5.ca> > Most businesses will not hire a person without experience and without > relevant formal education. Holding certifications will help, but it's > not a guarantee. Most of the time it depends on judgement and the kind of place you want to work at. In the end, it is just like a mortgage, do you want condo or a house. Fixed or variable. Etc. To work at IBM you need a degree, and also be able to deal with office politics of not speaking out too loudly and not being too individualisic. You have option of working for smaller outfits. Job stability is lower, but generally you have more air to breathe, but that depends on the shop. And then you can do contracting. So far if you can have a blog, and write about things you experiment with every day, you will accumilate good amount of technical backgrounder info, to show to a potential employer and allow them to decide wether you are worthy to do a particular job. Often that implies writing blog entries with good english, since written communication is often a foundation of communication in many companies. If you write code, write it, put it up in VCS of your choice and provide clear directions how to check out projects anonymously. This may well be a huge plus, for those technically minded hiring outfits. > So I think you have three choices: enroll in college or university, > obtain certifications, or try starting your own business. > College and university, although very time consuming, is the long-term > best approach. Coop courses provide needed income and experience. > >From what I have seen niversity is useless for young people who graduate, and often a loss of time and money. I would suggest going to university when you are mauture enough, and can really gain from knowlege that University gives you. You can do fairly well and forget promptly much of the material as most of my classmates did. Education is investment, but you should remember, Bachelors degree now usually amounts for your pathway into larger corporations, where degree is a sign of being able to do work handed down, in processor mode, not as an individual. To really guarantee a job you must have Masters or PhD in the field of sciences, and PhD may well put you over the price range most companies willing for an engineer, and you will follow into analyst department, of largers companies. Job market is much narrower for people who wish to publish their PhD as an achievement. > Certifications are a riskier route. Many of the training facilities > (like Nexient) and colleges will offer certification tracks that take > about year, cost more than a three year college course but, if you > interview well, can get you an entry level position. They are mostly > based on Microsoft (has anyone seen a Open Source version) but contain > Novell and Cisco certifications as well. I usually pass over these > candidates because they are less rounded (usually no programming or > business skills.) Certifications are excellent thing to put on a business card, they only catch the eye of the potential employer. I would venture out to say certifcations are more worthwhile in grassroots contract finding, where your card might circulate in places you might have not intended it to go. > Starting your own business is another problem. It can take a long time > to generate enough business to make a full time income and if you > haven't already worked in the IT industry it can be intimidating > approaching even medium sized businesses. You need connections and experience. Mostly connections, which often comes from experience. It is imperative to have superrior communication skills, to a point of taking a few courses before jumping into the fray. [I haven't but I might well do that this semester] > Still, now is a good time. I feel Linux is nearing the tipping point and > the next few years may see a huge vacuum in the Linux skills market. > Here is my advice: > > 1. Choose where you want to go. Is it software development, web > development, system administration, systems integration (e.g. installing > new systems/services,) support, embedded systems, training, etc. > > 2. Be social. Attend LUG meetings and/or be active on the lists. The > most successful people usually have very good people skills. Look for > other groups to become part of (TAUG, PerlMongers, etc.) > > 3. Get more experience. If it's programming, sysadmin, or integration > look for non-profit organizations that need IT support. Many won't have > much money and will welcome volunteer work. This may include official > non-profits as well as community events. Push for Linux and open source. > It can do everything that Microsoft software does. > > 4. For programming experience pick an interesting software project and > start donating code. They often have a feature wish list that you could > tackle. > > 5. Talk to the colleges and universities about courses. This is your > long-term best chance for a successful career. Excellent adivce, I wish I had such guidance at the start of my hectic career :) -- Create like God. Command like a King. Work like a Slave. http://arslogic.com | http://arslogic.com/resume.pdf direct: 416-564-5255 | fax: 416-596-0128 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 18:31:44 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 14:31:44 -0400 Subject: Seeking opinions In-Reply-To: <20070503180131.GB20907-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <1178207327.6782.1.camel@bcc> <1178211651.3151.32.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070503180131.GB20907@md5.ca> Message-ID: <97F93AB5-BEEE-41FA-8621-878A386F22F1@visibleassets.com> On 3-May-07, at 2:01 PM, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > >> Most businesses will not hire a person without experience and without >> relevant formal education. Holding certifications will help, but it's >> not a guarantee. To be honest when I am hiring if you have a certificate I view it as a negative. Far too many people out there going to courses instead of working with it. Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 18:43:11 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 14:43:11 -0400 Subject: Seeking opinions In-Reply-To: <20070503180131.GB20907-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <1178207327.6782.1.camel@bcc> <1178211651.3151.32.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070503180131.GB20907@md5.ca> Message-ID: <463A2D3F.1060501@rogers.com> Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > To work at IBM you need a degree, and > also be able to deal with office politics of not speaking out too loudly > and not being too individualisic. > Ummm... I used to work at IBM and I don't have a degree. It depends on what you're doing. If development, then yes a degree would be handy. I was in (OS/2 3rd level) tech support, where a degree wasn't needed. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 18:46:31 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 14:46:31 -0400 Subject: Seeking opinions In-Reply-To: <97F93AB5-BEEE-41FA-8621-878A386F22F1-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <1178207327.6782.1.camel@bcc> <1178211651.3151.32.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070503180131.GB20907@md5.ca> <97F93AB5-BEEE-41FA-8621-878A386F22F1@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <463A2E07.1090707@rogers.com> Dave Cramer wrote: > > On 3-May-07, at 2:01 PM, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > >> >>> Most businesses will not hire a person without experience and without >>> relevant formal education. Holding certifications will help, but it's >>> not a guarantee. > > To be honest when I am hiring if you have a certificate I view it as a > negative. > > Far too many people out there going to courses instead of working with > it. > As I mentioned in another note, I used to do OS/2 support at IBM. I obtained OS/2 certification after I started in that position, though I did have Novell CNA before. At that time, most of my computer experience was as a computer tech, maintaining mini-computers. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 19:36:11 2007 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 15:36:11 -0400 Subject: Oh say can you SEO? In-Reply-To: <460198C5.1030103-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <460198C5.1030103@telly.org> Message-ID: <463A39AB.2000000@primus.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I'd be greatly thankful if folks here can point me to good resources > (books, websites, etc.) in the field of search engine optimization > (SEO). Better late... than never to reply. Hey, SEO is an iterative process so maybe this is timeless regardly. I did a whois on a website using http://www.domaintools.com/ which is *much* more informative than a simple, generic whois. The results page contains a lot of links and, of course, showcases other services and power tools that "DomainTools" offer, many (most?) for free. The initial query provided an "SEO Score" (95%) and is a link to their "SEO Text Browser" tool. I'll let them explain: "The SEO Text Browser tells the user what things could be improved with the current web page they are browsing. New webmasters don't need to know every SEO trick, a quick spin around the block with the SEO Text Browser tells most of the major corrections that are needed to rank better with on-page content. Best of all this is a free service by DomainTools for all the white hats out there." "The SEO Text Browser allows even the newest webmaster to easily view a detailed and customized list of tasks to fix. Experts that know what they are doing use lynx or study the source code. The SEOTB actually gives easy step by step instructions on how to improve the web page the user is surfing." They go on to list the 5 "Step-by-Step Instructions To Fix SEO" and you can find out more here: http://www.domaintools.com/seo-score/ Caveat #1: Finding DomainTools was a happy (?) accident I had today. Just scratching the surface, so far. But I'm favourably impressed. > Some of the sites I've been looking at so far promise "free" stuff > that look like a one-way trip to their "hire me" section. After a brief look around, I'd say they're looking for profit from Domain Registrations and by promoting Web Hosting Providers. Dunno. Ah, they have paid user account subscriptions, as well, which will likely be of interest when I put my computer forensics hat on. Caveat #2: The SEO Text Browser is Beta. If you provide feedback, you'll be helping them build a better ($aleable?) tool. I haven't checked on the license they're using. If this is FOSS, of course, it's mutually beneficial, as we wish everything could be. Caveat #3: Their English is nearly perfect but still hints that it's not their mother tongue. So what. Too many native uni-grads are no better. (I'm an Equal Opportunity adherent when offensive.) Maybe I should use DomainTools' whois to discover more about them or the outfit that may be their parent: Name Intelligence, Inc. http://www.nameintelligence.com/ Anyone experienced? Bueller? Hope this is helpful, Evan. Feedback would be good. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 19:49:29 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 15:49:29 -0400 Subject: Oh say can you SEO? In-Reply-To: <463A39AB.2000000-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <460198C5.1030103@telly.org> <463A39AB.2000000@primus.ca> Message-ID: On 03/05/07, George Nicol wrote: > > Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > > I'd be greatly thankful if folks here can point me to good resources > > (books, websites, etc.) in the field of search engine optimization > > (SEO). well ya missed the SEO workshop here at the caffe, but if you go to our site and search for "SEO" you'll find link to the presenter and his company; SEO Company, they do that sort of thing. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 20:08:30 2007 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 16:08:30 -0400 Subject: no color in bash & vi Message-ID: Hi, I have this nagging problem... I used to have color in bash and vi (on an old retired rh7.3 box). I managed to find out that export COLORS=/etc/dirCOLOR.xterm and I get colors in the shell. The question is, where is this supposed to be set? Also found dircolor which I assume to be an internal bash command... I did some googling and found various hints to set colors for specific commands like ls. What I'm trying to accomplish is to have colors in bash setup by default for all users and also colors when I use vi to edit various programming languages like perl and java. Martin _________________________________________________________________ RealLiveMoms: Share your experience with Real Live Moms just like you http://www.reallivemoms.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 21:24:43 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 17:24:43 -0400 Subject: no color in bash & vi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070503212443.GB8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 03, 2007 at 04:08:30PM -0400, Martin Duclos wrote: > I have this nagging problem... I used to have color in bash and vi (on an > old retired rh7.3 box). I managed to find out that export > COLORS=/etc/dirCOLOR.xterm and I get colors in the shell. The question is, > where is this supposed to be set? Also found dircolor which I assume to be > an internal bash command... I did some googling and found various hints to > set colors for specific commands like ls. What I'm trying to accomplish is > to have colors in bash setup by default for all users and also colors when > I use vi to edit various programming languages like perl and java. vi supports syntax highlighting (add syn on to your .vimrc). It is normally off by default. It requires a terminal type that supports colour text of course. ls can do colour output too with the right environment options set such as: export LS_OPTIONS='--color=auto' eval "`dircolors`" alias ls='ls $LS_OPTIONS' alias ll='ls $LS_OPTIONS -l' alias l='ls $LS_OPTIONS -lA' -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 21:36:37 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 21:36:37 +0000 Subject: Seeking opinions In-Reply-To: <22e435080705031016g6cc18ff4o4134066f4be7810a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1178207327.6782.1.camel@bcc> <22e435080705031016g6cc18ff4o4134066f4be7810a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/3/07, Sheldon Mustard wrote: > On 5/3/07, Brice Chaffin wrote: > > My question is: How does someone get started from such a position? > > > > Well you can go the route which most sysadmins do and get enough > degrees/diplomas/certs that a large organization will let you learn on the > job and learn from other sysadmins. Lets be honest only large organization > really require dedicated sysadmins (SMBs need generalist). > > My personal opinion about the situation is there should be a traditional > apprenticeship program to get some qualification. Obviously I think many > in IT and sysadmin field don't like that idea because it moves away from > the field as a profession. FWIW I think software development is a > profession, sysadmin is not (I play a sysadmin weekdays 9 to 5). > > SJM There are most definitely some alternative perspectives out there... Well worth exploring is the SAGE web site: SAGE is the Usenix SIG for sysadmins. They have some docs on sysadmin job descriptions (see the "core Job descriptions" for this) that should give good ideas as to what skills to prepare in order to be able to be a professional sysadmin. http://www.sage.org/pubs/8_jobs/8_jobs.html There's a fair bit of "member only" material; SAGE membership costs $45USD/yr, and is probably a good deal. Cool "toolbox FAQ": -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 21:58:50 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 21:58:50 +0000 Subject: Digital contract signatures [ non-linux topic, nerd topic ] In-Reply-To: <20070503165312.GA20907-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <20070503165312.GA20907@md5.ca> Message-ID: On 5/3/07, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > Hello, > I wonder if anyone uses digital contract signatures, like GnuPG signed email messages, sent and replied to. If this has legal precedent of being somewhat legally binding. Just wondering if it has any legal standing in terms of protection. Since GnuPG signatures generally are harder to fake then handwritten ones, if I am not mistaken. We use digital signatures for verification of data escrow submissions, but that is a mighty specialized application, and I'm not sure that the people 'involved' that are sufficiently distant from technical details that they're not sitting at a Unix prompt all day necessarily understand the cryptographic issues with terribly much depth. During WWII, *successful* use of cryptography required applying technical discipline to a really considerable degree. (And it included being aware of lots of irritating nit-picking details such as making sure that trash was being destroyed securely; it does no good to encrypt things if someone can pull unencoded draft copies of the documents out of a trash bin...) Absent of that sort of discipline, our computers are leaky enough systems (considering /tmp files, EFI, and such) that I'm a bit leery of believing that you can get terribly much security, at least on documents, unless the "you" in question is someone that's pretty knowledgeable about cryptography and are also pretty anal retentive about it as well. For people in, oh, call it the legal industry (covers lawyers, paralegals, anyone caring about contracts), the usual paucity of mathematical knowledge makes me think they'll be largely unable to regard cryptography as being meaningfully different from magic. If they don't understand this frightfully technical artifact, I don't think they can use it competently, and if they can't, it's not much good. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 22:13:23 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 18:13:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Windows Vista restricts GNU GCC apps to 32 MB In-Reply-To: <200705012237.42810.amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990704281334l4ede0f4dj568544802372a102@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990704281641o150cb468t4307d7d92de6be79@mail.gmail.com> <20070501193733.GM5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200705012237.42810.amarjan@pobox.com> Message-ID: | From: Andrej Marjan | On to the Windows part: Windows has a perfectly good C89 runtime built in, but | this guy says the MS compiler doesn't support long long (for a long time a | GCC extension and now I think part of C99), and better compilers don't | support the GMP library. What he wants is "80-bit long double data type (64-bit mantissa)". The difficulty of finding a suitable alternate development environment is aggravated by the fact that I need significant support for not only large memory allocations, but also for the 80-bit long double data type (64-bit mantissa), 64-bit integers, GMP (the GNU multiple precision library), and the console support embodied in the conio.h of DJGPP and Borland C. The C type "long double" surely remains but it is no longer 80 bits. On my 64-bit FC6, sizeof(long double) is 16, not 8 or 10. On my 32-bit RHL7.0 system, and on a 32-bit Ubuntu 6.06, sizeof(long double) is 12! (The 12 byte data type seems to have 10 bytes of data and 2 bytes of padding, probably to make sure that it is aligned on a 4-byte boundary when in an array.) The 80-bit datatype is the precision of values within the 8087 registers. As such, the extra precision over 64-bit double was essentially free in computation time. It gave additional precision to intermediate calculations. The 8087 hardware is not "performant". The replacement (SSE, I think) does not have an intermediate value with additional precision. Linux is moving this way too. On the 64-bit Linux and Win64 ABIs, there is no support for the old floating point (the hardware has it but the OSes may not even enable it for 64-bit processes). I'm a little sad about the fate of 80-bit arithmetic. The designer of the arithmetic system, http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~wkahan/ is very knowledgeable about floating point and its quirks. He's a U of T grad and I knew his supervisor, Tom Hull. Anyway, I suspect that the new FP regime is worse for getting reliable FP results, but faster. Numerical analysts really like having extra accuracy in intermediate results. Understanding the accuracy of floating point calculations is often very difficult and not really for amateurs. I consider myself an amateur even after a couple of undergrad courses and one grad course in numerical analysis (from Hull) and attending a couple of talks by Kahan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 22:29:02 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 22:29:02 +0000 Subject: Windows Vista restricts GNU GCC apps to 32 MB In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990704281334l4ede0f4dj568544802372a102@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990704281641o150cb468t4307d7d92de6be79@mail.gmail.com> <20070501193733.GM5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200705012237.42810.amarjan@pobox.com> Message-ID: On 5/3/07, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Understanding the accuracy of floating point calculations is often > very difficult and not really for amateurs. I consider myself an > amateur even after a couple of undergrad courses and one grad course > in numerical analysis (from Hull) and attending a couple of talks by > Kahan. I don't have *that* much understanding, but consider that the fact of knowing that "there's a problem with floating point" is a vital bit of necessary 'professional competence.' Unfortunately, I don't think there are terribly many professionals left in this regard, and this is leaving the world bereft of understanding that it's even an issue. That's very troubling. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 22:33:44 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 18:33:44 -0400 Subject: Digital contract signatures [ non-linux topic, nerd topic ] In-Reply-To: References: <20070503165312.GA20907@md5.ca> Message-ID: <463A6348.7050509@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 5/3/07, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: >> Hello, >> I wonder if anyone uses digital contract signatures, like GnuPG >> signed email messages, sent and replied to. If this has legal >> precedent of being somewhat legally binding. Just wondering if it has >> any legal standing in terms of protection. Since GnuPG signatures >> generally are harder to fake then handwritten ones, if I am not >> mistaken. > > We use digital signatures for verification of data escrow submissions, > but that is a mighty specialized application, and I'm not sure that > the people 'involved' that are sufficiently distant from technical > details that they're not sitting at a Unix prompt all day necessarily > understand the cryptographic issues with terribly much depth. The CIBC allows digital signatures on loan applications etc. They also provide the key. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 22:36:23 2007 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 18:36:23 -0400 Subject: Oh say can you SEO? In-Reply-To: References: <460198C5.1030103@telly.org> <463A39AB.2000000@primus.ca> Message-ID: <463A63E7.6090909@primus.ca> David J Patrick wrote: > if you go to our site and search for "SEO" you'll find > a link to the presenter and his company; SEO Company, Thanks very much, David. By the way, are you getting shy? Nope. Not too shy to interview for Michele Henry's "Urban Campers" article in last Tuesday's Toronto Star (May 1, Section E, the trendy "I. D." supplement). The lengthy front page & page 4 column predominantly features DJP Esq PhD. Well, you do wax philosophical. Now that's advocacy! I was expecting the obligatory shameless self-promotion on the list. Nada. How could you not know about the 'obligatory' part? Or were you too busy herding campers? Shame they didn't get the name of your establishment or maybe even the picture caption right. A "C" for being consistent, eh. They got it wrong repeatedly. You, Linuxcaffe, and Linux were well represented, though. So thanks again. Now everybody run to the recycle bin. I have a couple of copies suitable for framing, if you want 'em. Have one enlarged, laminated at huge expense, and use it for a place-mat outside. I didn't look to see if the article was online at TorStar. Doubtful. What impressed me most was Fair Trade coffee. Hmmm. Linux, summer on the patio, WiFi, and FT coffee brewed and served *for* me. How righteously decadent. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 22:37:56 2007 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 18:37:56 -0400 Subject: Digital contract signatures [ non-linux topic, nerd topic ] In-Reply-To: <463A6348.7050509-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070503165312.GA20907@md5.ca> <463A6348.7050509@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070503223756.GA27244@md5.ca> > The CIBC allows digital signatures on loan applications etc. They also > provide the key. Thanks, I didn't even know the banks are this far ahead in tech :) p. -- Create like God. Command like a King. Work like a Slave. http://arslogic.com | http://arslogic.com/resume.pdf direct: 416-564-5255 | fax: 416-596-0128 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 22:46:25 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 18:46:25 -0400 Subject: no color in bash & vi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070503224624.GC18067@waltdnes.org> On Thu, May 03, 2007 at 04:08:30PM -0400, Martin Duclos wrote > What I'm trying to accomplish is to have colors in bash setup by > default for all users and also colors when I use vi to edit various > programming languages like perl and java. Well, if you want all users to have colorful bash, it should be somewhere in /etc/. The comments in /etc/profile say... # Newer bash ebuilds include /etc/bash/bashrc which will setup PS1 # including color. We leave out color here because not all # terminals support it. /etc/bashrc is where you set bash to be colorful. vim is a separate app, and has its own config file. You want "color on" (without the quotes) in /etc/vim/vimrc. Individual users can always override locally. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 23:23:32 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 19:23:32 -0400 Subject: Digital contract signatures [ non-linux topic, nerd topic ] In-Reply-To: <20070503165312.GA20907-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <20070503165312.GA20907@md5.ca> Message-ID: <20070503232332.GB16472@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, May 03, 2007 at 12:53:12PM -0400, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: >I wonder if anyone uses digital contract signatures, like GnuPG signed email messages, sent and replied to. If this has legal precedent of being somewhat legally binding. Just wondering if it has any legal standing in terms of protection. Since GnuPG signatures generally are harder to fake then handwritten ones, if I am not mistaken. Take a look at PIPEDA as your starting point: http://www.privcom.gc.ca/legislation/02_06_01_01_e.asp There is specific mention of digital signatures under the law. They are recognized by the courts and there is precedent for their use (though not much - as far as I can tell there have been no challenges to a digital signature in Canada, though I haven't looked in the last couple of years.) Also, take a look at the second item here: http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pki-icp/pki-in-practice/efforts/2004/05/scan-analyse05_e.asp As far as I know there is no Treasury Board certified signing authorities as yet, and so the courts are using the standards from the Evidence Act [http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-5/] to determine the validity of a digital signature. Those standards are pretty common sense - can the signature be provably coupled to a signee, can the signature verify the contents of the signed document, and is the chain of custody secure in the eyes of the judiciary. Google is your friend here - I know there have been news articles over the past seven years on this topic (PIPEDA began in 2000) but my reading of the environment is that signatures are a definite plus when assigning authority and integrity to electronic documents. >This should make storage regular contracts alot easier. Also it is a pain and detrement to nature, flying around documents no matter how good it feels to have actual piece of paper in the hand and then in the file to cover your rear end. Offsite storage of printouts of signed documents, and/or third-party document escrow are good to have if you are concerned about important contracts. >What are your thoughts on usefulness in real world business, that is slanted towards nerds. I can make guesses on the topic, but wonder if any one had real experience with that. Real world business is using digital signatures right now. I know of several large law firms that require digital signatures (and encryption) on all email correspondence and documents. So is the GAO (Government Accountability Office) in the States. So is the DoD. In the States the E-Sign legislation is older than PIPEDA, and there is a network of Public Key Management companies available to choose from. If anything, you're late to the party :-) -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 00:14:49 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 20:14:49 -0400 Subject: Digital contract signatures [ non-linux topic, nerd topic ] In-Reply-To: <20070503232332.GB16472-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070503165312.GA20907@md5.ca> <20070503232332.GB16472@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <463A7AF9.2050006@rogers.com> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Real world business is using digital signatures right now. I know of > several large law firms that require digital signatures (and encryption) > on all email correspondence and documents. So is the GAO (Government > Accountability Office) in the States. So is the DoD. In the States the > E-Sign legislation is older than PIPEDA, and there is a network of > Public Key Management companies available to choose from. If anything, > you're late to the party :-) > FWIW, you can get a digital signature from Thawte at: http://www.thawte.com/secure-email/personal-email-certificates/index.html I am a notary and can give points to whoever needs them. I live in Mississauga and work in Oakville. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 00:58:02 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 20:58:02 -0400 Subject: Windows Vista restricts GNU GCC apps to 32 MB In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990704281334l4ede0f4dj568544802372a102@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990704281641o150cb468t4307d7d92de6be79@mail.gmail.com> <20070501193733.GM5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200705012237.42810.amarjan@pobox.com> Message-ID: <463A851A.8040705@utoronto.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 5/3/07, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> Understanding the accuracy of floating point calculations is often >> very difficult and not really for amateurs. I consider myself an >> amateur even after a couple of undergrad courses and one grad course >> in numerical analysis (from Hull) and attending a couple of talks by >> Kahan. > > I don't have *that* much understanding, but consider that the fact of > knowing that "there's a problem with floating point" is a vital bit of > necessary 'professional competence.' > > Unfortunately, I don't think there are terribly many professionals > left in this regard, and this is leaving the world bereft of > understanding that it's even an issue. That's very troubling. I suspect the movie "Office Space" was the first introduction many people had to the perils of floating point arithmetic :) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 01:01:05 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 21:01:05 -0400 Subject: Oh say can you SEO? In-Reply-To: <463A63E7.6090909-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <460198C5.1030103@telly.org> <463A39AB.2000000@primus.ca> <463A63E7.6090909@primus.ca> Message-ID: <463A85D1.3080004@utoronto.ca> George Nicol wrote: > David J Patrick wrote: > >> if you go to our site and search for "SEO" you'll find >> a link to the presenter and his company; SEO Company, > > > Thanks very much, David. > > By the way, are you getting shy? Nope. Not too shy to interview for > Michele Henry's "Urban Campers" article in last Tuesday's Toronto Star > (May 1, Section E, the trendy "I. D." supplement). The lengthy front > page & page 4 column predominantly features DJP Esq PhD. Well, you do > wax philosophical. Now that's advocacy! I was expecting the obligatory > shameless self-promotion on the list. Nada. How could you not know about > the 'obligatory' part? Or were you too busy herding campers? > > Shame they didn't get the name of your establishment or maybe even the > picture caption right. A "C" for being consistent, eh. They got it wrong > repeatedly. You, Linuxcaffe, and Linux were well represented, though. > > So thanks again. Now everybody run to the recycle bin. I have a couple > of copies suitable for framing, if you want 'em. Have one enlarged, > laminated at huge expense, and use it for a place-mat outside. > > I didn't look to see if the article was online at TorStar. Doubtful. > > What impressed me most was Fair Trade coffee. Hmmm. Linux, summer on the > patio, WiFi, and FT coffee brewed and served *for* me. How righteously > decadent. It speaks for itself doesn't it? No self-plugging needed. It was online, some here: http://jamonation.com/node/642 and the article here: http://www.thestar.com/Life/article/208942 Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 01:56:25 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 21:56:25 -0400 Subject: Oh say can you SEO? In-Reply-To: <463A63E7.6090909-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <460198C5.1030103@telly.org> <463A39AB.2000000@primus.ca> <463A63E7.6090909@primus.ca> Message-ID: On 03/05/07, George Nicol wrote: > > David J Patrick wrote: > > > if you go to our site and search for "SEO" you'll find > > a link to the presenter and his company; SEO Company, > > > Thanks very much, David. > > By the way, are you getting shy? oh that's right, me = wallflower ;-) > Shame they didn't get the name of your establishment or maybe even the > picture caption right. A "C" for being consistent, eh. They got it wrong > repeatedly. You, Linuxcaffe, and Linux were well represented, though. happily, if one were to google " linux cafe", the first item (of over 23 million) is linuxcaffe.ca So thanks again. Now everybody run to the recycle bin. I have a couple > of copies suitable for framing, if you want 'em. Have one enlarged, > laminated at huge expense, and use it for a place-mat outside. oh goodie ! our copy got put out in Wednesdays bin. so, yeah, bring a copy next time you're in and we'll immortalize it somehow. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 02:53:55 2007 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 22:53:55 -0400 Subject: Oh say can you SEO? In-Reply-To: References: <460198C5.1030103@telly.org> <463A39AB.2000000@primus.ca> <463A63E7.6090909@primus.ca> Message-ID: <463AA043.4010708@primus.ca> David J Patrick wrote: > our copy got put out in Wednesdays bin. so, yeah, > bring a copy > next time you're in and we'll > immortalize it somehow. Glad, then, that I mentioned it. They're yours. David J Patrick, "above the fold" - cool! Hope to see you soon. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 12:57:34 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 08:57:34 -0400 Subject: 500GB external HD - $69 Message-ID: <463B2DBE.3010407@telly.org> I don't work for Dell. But this seems like a really good deal that might interest some folks (I've just bought one). http://accessories.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=cadhs1&sku=A0952444 - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 13:54:42 2007 From: ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org (Raymond J. Payne) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 09:54:42 -0400 Subject: 500GB external HD - $69 References: <463B2DBE.3010407@telly.org> Message-ID: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD95027106F92@jack.pcrepairs.com> Hi, I'm just curious; Did you buy other hardware and add this on? Going directly to the link it comes up as $239 with no options for discounts or coupons to be added in before checking out. Ray -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Evan Leibovitch Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 8:58 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: 500GB external HD - $69 I don't work for Dell. But this seems like a really good deal that might interest some folks (I've just bought one). http://accessories.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=ca dhs1&sku=A0952444 - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 14:09:25 2007 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 10:09:25 -0400 Subject: 500GB external HD - $69 In-Reply-To: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD95027106F92-CLNy6lqpgzNGTIAK+MOlGtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <463B2DBE.3010407@telly.org> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD95027106F92@jack.pcrepairs.com> Message-ID: <92ee967a0705040709r148141feo48a37c1fffc6a1d6@mail.gmail.com> On 5/4/07, Raymond J. Payne wrote: > Hi, > > I'm just curious; Did you buy other hardware and add this on? Going > directly to the link it comes up as $239 with no options for discounts > or coupons to be added in before checking out. Same here. Maybe Dell is pulling an Amazon-like personal discount and they really want to get Evan to start buying stuff from them? Evan, do you have any cookies or profiles on the site? -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jab-76OBl6+JcyzDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 14:20:56 2007 From: jab-76OBl6+JcyzDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Jeremy Baker) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 10:20:56 -0400 Subject: Streaming Video Message-ID: <200705041020.56978.jab@muskokatech.ca> I recently visited discovery.ca and wanted to view an episode of daily planet, only to be greeted with a screen with the following text Sorry, your OS is not supported! We recommend Windows 2000, Windows XP, or Mac OS X. Is there a way to block thier detection of my OS? I am using Firefox 2.0.0.2 on Suse 10.2 I did give them some feedback on thier suggestion of OS. -- Jeremy Baker GnuPGP fingerprint = EE66 AC49 E008 E09A 7A2A ?0195 50EF 580B EDBB 95B6 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 14:23:10 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 10:23:10 -0400 Subject: 500GB external HD - $69 In-Reply-To: <463B2DBE.3010407-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <463B2DBE.3010407@telly.org> Message-ID: <463B41CE.4010106@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I don't work for Dell. But this seems like a really good deal that might > interest some folks (I've just bought one). > > http://accessories.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=cadhs1&sku=A0952444 > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Where did you see the $69 price??? -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 14:41:39 2007 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 10:41:39 -0400 Subject: 500GB external HD - $69 In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0705040709r148141feo48a37c1fffc6a1d6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <463B2DBE.3010407@telly.org> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD95027106F92@jack.pcrepairs.com> <92ee967a0705040709r148141feo48a37c1fffc6a1d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <463B4623.1060100@primus.ca> Mike Kallies wrote: > Evan, do you have any cookies or profiles on the site? I saw the ad both ways: First with strikethrough-$239-strikethrough and $69 as the new price, then back to $239 in less than an hour. Notice the superscript "1" on the price, pointing you to their error policy. They make a *lot* of mistakes like this. I refuse to buy anything from Dell, but this was too good to be true. Half a terabyte and portable for <$70? In my dreams. I have no special relationship with Dell, so I wasn't seeing anything that Joe Sixpack wouldn't have seen. Shoulda grabbed a screenshot. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 14:43:39 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 14:43:39 +0000 Subject: 500GB external HD - $69 In-Reply-To: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD95027106F92-CLNy6lqpgzNGTIAK+MOlGtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <463B2DBE.3010407@telly.org> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD95027106F92@jack.pcrepairs.com> Message-ID: On 5/4/07, Raymond J. Payne wrote: > Hi, > > I'm just curious; Did you buy other hardware and add this on? Going > directly to the link it comes up as $239 with no options for discounts > or coupons to be added in before checking out. Perhaps it was an error, and some time after 9am, they fixed it. I have one on order at ~$78 (adding in taxes/shipping). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 15:20:49 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 11:20:49 -0400 Subject: 500GB external HD - $69 In-Reply-To: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD95027106F92-CLNy6lqpgzNGTIAK+MOlGtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <463B2DBE.3010407@telly.org> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD95027106F92@jack.pcrepairs.com> Message-ID: <463B4F51.8060603@telly.org> Raymond J. Payne wrote: > I'm just curious; Did you buy other hardware and add this on? Going > directly to the link it comes up as $239 with no options for discounts > or coupons to be added in before checking out. > My daughter bought one (on my behalf) and her boyfriend bought two at about 8:30 this morning. Nothing else. I notice that the page is now changed and the offer is gone. They told me that they noticed the deal mentioned at redflagdeals.com, though it's not there anymore either. - Evan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3837 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 15:38:58 2007 From: tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 11:38:58 -0400 Subject: 500GB external HD - $69 In-Reply-To: <463B4F51.8060603-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <463B2DBE.3010407@telly.org> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD95027106F92@jack.pcrepairs.com> <463B4F51.8060603@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070504153858.GA31774@thecat.localnet> On Fri, May 04, 2007 at 11:20:49AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Raymond J. Payne wrote: > > I'm just curious; Did you buy other hardware and add this on? Going > > directly to the link it comes up as $239 with no options for discounts > > or coupons to be added in before checking out. > > > My daughter bought one (on my behalf) and her boyfriend bought two at > about 8:30 this morning. Nothing else. > I notice that the page is now changed and the offer is gone. > > They told me that they noticed the deal mentioned at redflagdeals.com, > though it's not there anymore either. I looked at the site, agreed that the price seems "pretty good" and told my wife I would order it when we got back home this afternoon from some travels we have to do. Being the good wife she is, she told me to stop procrastinating - if I want it, order it NOW - so I did (around 9:30am). Waiting for Dell to confirm the order. $69 + tax (no shipping charges) - good deal - Thanks Evan. Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 16:19:47 2007 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 12:19:47 -0400 Subject: :Streaming video Message-ID: <463B5D23.1070902@rogers.com> Recently, I was in the same situation. Not only did I have to switch to Windows, but I also found that I was restricted to IE7, in order to access the site to get the info I needed. I shouldn't have been surprised since Bell Globe Media ( which as we all know has sold its soul to Microsoft) now owns / operates the Discovery Channel. Part of the solution for you would be to configure Firefox to portray itself as IE, however, you will still have to find a way to run the latest versions of Windows Media Player files since the site offers no other content options. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 17:46:44 2007 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 13:46:44 -0400 Subject: 500GB external HD - $69 In-Reply-To: <463B2DBE.3010407-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <463B2DBE.3010407@telly.org> Message-ID: <463B7184.8020904@primus.ca> Dell's Policies + Processes: Misprints and Errors on our Site We endeavor to provide current and accurate information on our website. Nevertheless, errors and misprints may occur. Accordingly, we reserve the right to reject, correct, cancel or terminate any order for goods or services for which the price was incorrectly displayed or where we otherwise displayed erroneous or inaccurate information. Dell reserves this right at any stage of the online ordering processing, including after an order has been submitted and whether or not the order has been confirmed and your credit card charged. If your order is cancelled and your credit card has already been charged, we will issue a credit to your credit card account in the amount of the charge. Individual bank policies will dictate when this amount is credited to your account. To provide you with a credit, where applicable, is our only obligation to you. Dell is not obligated to sell products or services based on errors or misprints on our website. The attachment is a much-cropped .png of the ad Evan linked. 45.5 kb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bchaffin72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 17:49:29 2007 From: bchaffin72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Brice Chaffin) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 13:49:29 -0400 Subject: Seeking opinions In-Reply-To: References: <1178207327.6782.1.camel@bcc> <22e435080705031016g6cc18ff4o4134066f4be7810a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1178300969.4761.1.camel@bcc> Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for their advice and opinions.:) -- "There is no other wisdom and no other hope for us but that we become wise." Surak of Vulcan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 18:22:11 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 14:22:11 -0400 Subject: 500GB external HD - $69 In-Reply-To: <463B7184.8020904-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <463B2DBE.3010407@telly.org> <463B7184.8020904@primus.ca> Message-ID: <463B79D3.60908@telly.org> > Misprints and Errors on our Site You know, it _is_ possible that it was legitimate, but was limited by either time or stock available at that price. So far as I can tell, at least three people on this list were able to place an order at the sale price, so we'll know soon enough if these orders are honoured or cancelled. - Evan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3837 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 18:55:14 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 14:55:14 -0400 Subject: 500GB external HD - $69 In-Reply-To: <463B79D3.60908-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <463B2DBE.3010407@telly.org> <463B7184.8020904@primus.ca> <463B79D3.60908@telly.org> Message-ID: <463B8192.90403@utoronto.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> Misprints and Errors on our Site > > You know, it _is_ possible that it was legitimate, but was limited by > either time or stock available at that price. > > So far as I can tell, at least three people on this list were able to > place an order at the sale price, so we'll know soon enough if these > orders are honoured or cancelled. > > - Evan They do that, gotta figure give away 50 or 100 drives at a lost, and all the hype and people telling their friends will get some eyeballs that will bite and spend the full $250+ That and you get people coming back the site to check for other "deals". Likely just a mistake at that price, but we all know how companies sell things like printers at a loss and recoup it in toner/cartridges etc. Heck, even a 4L bag of milk usually costs less than a store pays for it to get you to buy other stuff like chips and candybars... Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 20:51:54 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 16:51:54 -0400 Subject: 500GB external HD - $69 In-Reply-To: <463B8192.90403-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <463B2DBE.3010407@telly.org> <463B7184.8020904@primus.ca> <463B79D3.60908@telly.org> <463B8192.90403@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <463B9CEA.5050205@telly.org> Jamon Camisso wrote: > They do that, gotta figure give away 50 or 100 drives at a lost, and > all the hype and people telling their friends will get some eyeballs > that will bite and spend the full $250+ I like to think that my friends are smarter than that. How many people on this list who saw my original email bit at the full price? A bargain is a bargain, and if I'm one of the lucky 100 then good for me. It's up to the informed consumer not to fall for the bait-and-switch, extended warranties, etc. The concept of a "door crasher" sale is hardly new, and is hardly fraudulent. At least nobody had to travel to a store just to find the sale price was no longer valid; nobody was inconvenienced for more than a little lost time. > That and you get people coming back the site to check for other "deals". I don't, I rely on others. My friend who pointed me to the Dell special gets an RSS feed from redflagdeals.com, where other people who *do* check back reported the temporary price drop. The tradeoff is that the people who _do_ spend the time to check in regularly will find these deals before the rest of us, and will more likely be able to take advantage before the stock runs out (or the error is spotted). > Likely just a mistake at that price, but we all know how companies > sell things like printers at a loss and recoup it in toner/cartridges > etc. Heck, even a 4L bag of milk usually costs less than a store pays > for it to get you to buy other stuff like chips and candybars... Welcome to the world of retail. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3837 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 21:16:23 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 17:16:23 -0400 Subject: Digital contract signatures [ non-linux topic, nerd topic ] In-Reply-To: <20070503165312.GA20907-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <20070503165312.GA20907@md5.ca> Message-ID: <22e435080705041416u418c6f6aibff68c9676577632@mail.gmail.com> On 5/3/07, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > > I wonder if anyone uses digital contract signatures, like GnuPG signed > email messages, sent and replied to. If this has legal precedent of being > somewhat legally binding. Just wondering if it has any legal standing in > terms of protection. Since GnuPG signatures generally are harder to fake > then handwritten ones, if I am not mistaken. > On an unrelated note, I have been wondering for a while now why the supergeeks at google don't integrate gnupg into gmail? Anyone have any idea ... seems like a no brainer to me. SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 21:28:48 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 17:28:48 -0400 Subject: Digital contract signatures [ non-linux topic, nerd topic ] In-Reply-To: <22e435080705041416u418c6f6aibff68c9676577632-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070503165312.GA20907@md5.ca> <22e435080705041416u418c6f6aibff68c9676577632@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <463BA590.5070000@utoronto.ca> Sheldon Mustard wrote: > On 5/3/07, *Pavel Zaitsev* > wrote: > > I wonder if anyone uses digital contract signatures, like GnuPG > signed email messages, sent and replied to. If this has legal > precedent of being somewhat legally binding. Just wondering if it > has any legal standing in terms of protection. Since GnuPG > signatures generally are harder to fake then handwritten ones, if I > am not mistaken. > > > On an unrelated note, I have been wondering for a while now why the > supergeeks at google don't integrate gnupg into gmail? Anyone have any > idea ... seems like a no brainer to me. Because the name goopg sounds silly :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 22:07:09 2007 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 18:07:09 -0400 Subject: Digital contract signatures [ non-linux topic, nerd topic ] In-Reply-To: <22e435080705041416u418c6f6aibff68c9676577632-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070503165312.GA20907@md5.ca> <22e435080705041416u418c6f6aibff68c9676577632@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070504220709.GA4218@md5.ca> Sheldon Mustard(smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org)@Fri, May 04, 2007 at 05:16:23PM -0400: > On an unrelated note, I have been wondering for a while now why the > supergeeks at google don't integrate gnupg into gmail? Anyone have any idea > ... seems like a no brainer to me. Because then google will own the key to your identity. While gpg is being used for generic encryption, if your key is signed by many people, any individual owning such a key can pose as you. It is sort of like giving google your passport when they will install in-airport email password indentity verification service. I won't be comfortable anyone besides me having my passport. While cryptographic identity isn't as popular now, with years to come, people will realise that current identification mechanism is superficial and carries, little secuirty value. And as identity theft is one the rise, with laughable punishment, reward is high for very little effort. So in general things I encrypt, I don't want anyone to read, except the intended audience. Having google access to my private key and password on invalidates, what the crypto is for. And in return, places burden of keeping my sensitive secrets on people and processes at google. However, if you'd be able to clearly delete account at google, without them keeping your information. It would be of added value, for them to generated account bound gpg-keys, that isn't signed by anyone and used for sole purpose of encrypting mail text. The key can be stored for temprorary amount of time, and if account is deleted, so will the key. Regards, Pavel -- Create like God. Command like a King. Work like a Slave. http://arslogic.com | http://arslogic.com/resume.pdf direct: 416-564-5255 | fax: 416-596-0128 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 22:18:39 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 18:18:39 -0400 Subject: Digital contract signatures [ non-linux topic, nerd topic ] In-Reply-To: <22e435080705041416u418c6f6aibff68c9676577632-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070503165312.GA20907@md5.ca> <22e435080705041416u418c6f6aibff68c9676577632@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420705041518l771574a5s324e775aecc7893b@mail.gmail.com> On 5/4/07, Sheldon Mustard wrote: > On an unrelated note, I have been wondering for a while now why the > supergeeks at google don't integrate gnupg into gmail? Anyone have any idea > ... seems like a no brainer to me. There's a Firefox plug-in that'll do that for you. Can't remember the name right now, and I don't have time to search for it, but it adds buttons to the GMail interface to sign and/or encrypt outgoing mails, and to verify the signature on incoming mails. (I presume it'll also decrypt incoming mails, but I'm not sure.) It works via a local installation of gpg, so you never lose control of your private keys. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 22:28:54 2007 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 18:28:54 -0400 Subject: Digital contract signatures [ non-linux topic, nerd topic ] In-Reply-To: <7ac602420705041518l771574a5s324e775aecc7893b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070503165312.GA20907@md5.ca> <22e435080705041416u418c6f6aibff68c9676577632@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420705041518l771574a5s324e775aecc7893b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070504222854.GA8106@md5.ca> > There's a Firefox plug-in that'll do that for you. Can't remember the That is Enigform: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4531 -- Create like God. Command like a King. Work like a Slave. http://arslogic.com | http://arslogic.com/resume.pdf direct: 416-564-5255 | fax: 416-596-0128 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 22:46:22 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 22:46:22 +0000 Subject: Digital contract signatures [ non-linux topic, nerd topic ] In-Reply-To: <20070504222854.GA8106-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <20070503165312.GA20907@md5.ca> <22e435080705041416u418c6f6aibff68c9676577632@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420705041518l771574a5s324e775aecc7893b@mail.gmail.com> <20070504222854.GA8106@md5.ca> Message-ID: On 5/4/07, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > > There's a Firefox plug-in that'll do that for you. Can't remember the > > That is Enigform: > > https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4531 Hmm. I wonder if that works... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 22:47:25 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 22:47:25 +0000 Subject: Digital contract signatures [ non-linux topic, nerd topic ] In-Reply-To: References: <20070503165312.GA20907@md5.ca> <22e435080705041416u418c6f6aibff68c9676577632@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420705041518l771574a5s324e775aecc7893b@mail.gmail.com> <20070504222854.GA8106@md5.ca> Message-ID: On 5/4/07, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 5/4/07, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > > > There's a Firefox plug-in that'll do that for you. Can't remember the > > > > That is Enigform: > > > > https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4531 > > Hmm. I wonder if that works... Possibly not... Although this might conceivably work... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 22:55:24 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 22:55:24 +0000 Subject: Digital contract signatures [ non-linux topic, nerd topic ] In-Reply-To: <20070504222854.GA8106-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <20070503165312.GA20907@md5.ca> <22e435080705041416u418c6f6aibff68c9676577632@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420705041518l771574a5s324e775aecc7893b@mail.gmail.com> <20070504222854.GA8106@md5.ca> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 5/4/07, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > > There's a Firefox plug-in that'll do that for you. Can't remember the > > That is Enigform: > > https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4531 Nope, not Enigform. Enigform will sign HTTP requests, not the contents of forms. What you're thinking of is called FireGPG: http://firegpg.tuxfamily.org/?page=install&lang=en It adds buttons for [Sign] [Sign and Send] [ Crypt] [Crypt and Send] to the GMail interface. And it seems to work... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: http://firegpg.tuxfamily.org iD8DBQFGO7nNCVn6LJfHIAIRAgaQAKCVxf+rw4cM41aFY/zuWuVhRicNtwCeNpDs ybZf5eewrR7P5iaiiKotmjY= =SDrf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 5 02:28:00 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 22:28:00 -0400 Subject: Digital contract signatures [ non-linux topic, nerd topic ] In-Reply-To: References: <20070503165312.GA20907@md5.ca> <22e435080705041416u418c6f6aibff68c9676577632@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420705041518l771574a5s324e775aecc7893b@mail.gmail.com> <20070504222854.GA8106@md5.ca> Message-ID: <22e435080705041928i3dd79ae3ga49d90d51d7b964a@mail.gmail.com> On 5/4/07, Christopher Browne wrote: > > What you're thinking of is called FireGPG: > http://firegpg.tuxfamily.org/?page=install&lang=en > > It adds buttons for [Sign] [Sign and Send] [ Crypt] [Crypt and Send] > to the GMail interface. And it seems to work... > Yes firegpg is decent but I am just not a real fan of extension blot. SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org Sat May 5 14:01:02 2007 From: tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor) Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 10:01:02 -0400 Subject: 500GB external HD - $69 In-Reply-To: <463B79D3.60908-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <463B2DBE.3010407@telly.org> <463B7184.8020904@primus.ca> <463B79D3.60908@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070505140102.GA32558@thecat.localnet> On Fri, May 04, 2007 at 02:22:11PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Misprints and Errors on our Site > > You know, it _is_ possible that it was legitimate, but was limited by > either time or stock available at that price. > > So far as I can tell, at least three people on this list were able to > place an order at the sale price, so we'll know soon enough if these > orders are honoured or cancelled. Oh Well - 'Twas a nice dream: Regarding your recent Dell order Dear Customer, Dell Canada strives to ensure the most positive experience for each of its customers. Recently, an error was made on www.dell.ca that caused the customer experience to be less positive than we would like. On the morning of May 4, 2007 we inadvertently posted web site pricing for the sale of the Aluratek AHDU350500 500GB 3.5" USB 2.0 External Hard Drive that was in error. The erroneous price advertised was $69.00. The correct price of this product is $239.00. Later this morning, we discovered the error and resolved it. However, before the error was resolved, some customers placed orders. At Dell Canada, we endeavour to provide current and accurate information on our website. Nevertheless, errors and misprints occur, and we regret that we cannot honour the pricing that temporarily appeared to be available on www.dell.ca. However, we do understand that this error may have caused you some inconvenience. As a result, we would like to present you with a goodwill offer consisting of 20% off the correct price (exclusive of shipping and applicable taxes) of the hard drive that you ordered in the event that you still wish to place your order. To receive this goodwill offer, please use the eCoupon code provided below to be used Online Only at www.dell.ca by May 31, 2007. Again, Dell Canada apologizes for any inconvenience caused by this error and looks forward to your continued support as a Dell customer. If you have any further questions, please e-mail us at Canada_Sales-DYMqY+WieiM at public.gmane.org 20% Discount Coupon code is : xxxxxxxxxxxx Product Link : xxxxxxxxx Best regards, Anwar Sumar Director, eBusiness Dell Canada Inc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat May 5 14:28:04 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 10:28:04 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20070505102804.4b999b0e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Michael MacLeod left a post-it on the fridge: > So, after using them both I still use them both, just each in their > respective niche. I've heard good things about beryl and xgl, but for all > that hassle, I could spend that time doing something more productive. Hassle? You mean 'apt-get/urpmi/etc beryl'? ;) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: Hey! What kind of party is this? There's no booze and only one hooker. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 5 16:42:45 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 12:42:45 -0400 Subject: Fedora on 64MB RAM Message-ID: <768631270705050942x542267b7qd2bc13bdaf6a5ed9@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone know how to install fedora on a machine with 64MB of RAM? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Sat May 5 19:03:40 2007 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 15:03:40 -0400 Subject: Fedora on 64MB RAM In-Reply-To: <768631270705050942x542267b7qd2bc13bdaf6a5ed9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <768631270705050942x542267b7qd2bc13bdaf6a5ed9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070505190340.GB10198@md5.ca> Ansar Mohammed(ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org)@Sat, May 05, 2007 at 12:42:45PM -0400: > Does anyone know how to install fedora on a machine with 64MB of RAM? Usually installation processes may take more then 64MB of ram. One way would to install it with more ram, trim the resources and down to where mostly 64MB will be used and make a diskimage it for replication. hth, Pavel -- Create like God. Command like a King. Work like a Slave. http://arslogic.com | http://arslogic.com/resume.pdf direct: 416-564-5255 | fax: 416-596-0128 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat May 5 19:54:16 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 15:54:16 -0400 Subject: 500GB external HD - $69 In-Reply-To: <20070505140102.GA32558-70WplSiaoiAG/9ncUZ6upg@public.gmane.org> References: <463B2DBE.3010407@telly.org> <463B7184.8020904@primus.ca> <463B79D3.60908@telly.org> <20070505140102.GA32558@thecat.localnet> Message-ID: <463CE0E8.3070301@ve3syb.ca> Allen Taylor wrote: > Oh Well - 'Twas a nice dream: > > 20% Discount Coupon code is : xxxxxxxxxxxx Product Link : xxxxxxxxx At least they were nice to offer a 20% discount on current listed price. Still doesn't compare to the incorrect price of $69 though. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun May 6 00:47:48 2007 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 20:47:48 -0400 Subject: 500GB external HD - $69 In-Reply-To: <463CE0E8.3070301-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <463B2DBE.3010407@telly.org> <463B7184.8020904@primus.ca> <463B79D3.60908@telly.org> <20070505140102.GA32558@thecat.localnet> <463CE0E8.3070301@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <463D25B4.7090203@primus.ca> Kevin Cozens wrote: > At least they were nice to offer a 20% discount on current listed price. > Still doesn't compare to the incorrect price of $69 though. Not when you consider that the incorrect price was 70% off. Ask for 35% . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun May 6 14:31:38 2007 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 10:31:38 -0400 Subject: Fedora on 64MB RAM In-Reply-To: <768631270705050942x542267b7qd2bc13bdaf6a5ed9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <768631270705050942x542267b7qd2bc13bdaf6a5ed9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070506103138.8397795d.hgibson@eol.ca> On Sat, 5 May 2007 12:42:45 -0400 "Ansar Mohammed" wrote: > Does anyone know how to install fedora on a machine with 64MB of RAM? > Ansar, I do not see any problems installing it. Are you planning to run X-windows on this thing? I just upgraded my PII/350 from 256Mb to 636Mb, and the speed improvement is noticeable, especially when I use my printer. I am running FC6, with Xen disabled. I ran Slackware_3 quite happily on a machine with 20Mb RAM, but they keep adding bells and whistles. I have retired my P233 laptop with Red Hat 7.3 and 64Mb RAM because it was too slow running Open Office. If you run a small window manager like FVWM2 and use a text editor to write your formatted documents (HTML and LaTeX), you have a chance. I do not think web browsing will work. Failing all that, Tom Jones by Henry Fielding is an excellent read and probably a major influence on Douglas Adams when he wrote Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. My copy is 884 pages long, but you will have time. :) -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 6 15:17:06 2007 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 11:17:06 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: <20070505102804.4b999b0e-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <20070505102804.4b999b0e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: On 5/5/07, JoeHill wrote: > > Michael MacLeod left a post-it on the fridge: > > > So, after using them both I still use them both, just each in their > > respective niche. I've heard good things about beryl and xgl, but for > all > > that hassle, I could spend that time doing something more productive. > > Hassle? You mean 'apt-get/urpmi/etc beryl'? ;) > > -- > JoeHill > ++++++++++++++++++++ > Bender: Hey! What kind of party is this? There's no booze and only one > hooker. > -- Actually, I spent some time recently setting up ubuntu feisty on my room mates computer. Firstly, let me say that Ubuntu continues to impress. I've been a fan since breezy, but it keeps getting better. Anyway, the computer dual boots now, and it's specs are good enough to run oblivion well when booted into windows. It's got an ATI X800 card (not my choice, like I said, my room mate built it). I decided to install beryl. For all the claims of "just do apt-get install beryl" and it's done, that's just not true. But it took an hour and a half to get beryl up and running. AIGLX vs. XGL, open vs. closed source driver, making sure the xorg.conf had compositing disabled vs. enabled, etc. I'm sorry, but for as wonderful as Ubuntu is (and I'm a fan), there are plenty of things that still break *way* too often in linux. Yes, beryl is beta software, and it gets a bit of a pass as a result, but don't try and pretend it's just a matter of apt-getting it. GFTP is a matter of just apt-getting, not beryl. So yeah, that hour and a half could have been spent doing something else. Plus the hour I spent going through the beryl config options getting them "just right." I'm not complaining, I do this as a hobby because I enjoy it. I'm subscribed to my local linux users group mailing list after all. But I installed it on a spare computer, in some extra time I had. If I need to be doing productive work (school work, coding, correspondence, photo editing, etc) it happens on the mac, because It Just Works. Part of it is that the operating system doesn't beg to be tweaked. I'm not getting distracted playing around with beryl settings, making sure my system clock is syncing accurately, or anything else. That's already taken care of for me, and I'm free to focus on using my computer to accomplish something. I have ADD, so I need to make my work environment as free from distractions as possible. And since I enjoy playing around with my linux systems, I kinda need to avoid them when I want to do productive things. This may be less of a issue for others. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 6 16:38:25 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 12:38:25 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <20070505102804.4b999b0e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20070506123825.23aa22d9@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Michael MacLeod left a post-it on the fridge: > On 5/5/07, JoeHill wrote: > > > > Michael MacLeod left a post-it on the fridge: > > > > > So, after using them both I still use them both, just each in their > > > respective niche. I've heard good things about beryl and xgl, but for > > all > > > that hassle, I could spend that time doing something more productive. > > > > Hassle? You mean 'apt-get/urpmi/etc beryl'? ;) > > > I decided to install beryl. For all the claims of "just do apt-get install > beryl" and it's done, that's just not true. But it took an hour and a half > to get beryl up and running. AIGLX vs. XGL, open vs. closed source driver, > making sure the xorg.conf had compositing disabled vs. enabled, etc. I'm > sorry, but for as wonderful as Ubuntu is (and I'm a fan), there are plenty > of things that still break *way* too often in linux. Yes, beryl is beta > software, and it gets a bit of a pass as a result, but don't try and pretend > it's just a matter of apt-getting it. GFTP is a matter of just apt-getting, > not beryl. Yes, you did just remind me, I had to edit my xorg.conf to get Beryl working correctly, and it did take about an hour, including reading the very very thorough documentation on the Beryl Wiki. I got the mistaken impression you were talking about spending several hours/days fighting with it. I was amazed at how much easier it was to get going compared to the first time I tried to get Compiz working last year on Mandriva 2006. All I have to say now is 'Expose Rocks!' (yeah, I know Expose is the name for it on the Mac, right?), and the enhanced task switcher is way cool too. > So yeah, that hour and a half could have been spent doing something else. > Plus the hour I spent going through the beryl config options getting them > "just right." I'm not complaining, I do this as a hobby because I enjoy it. > I'm subscribed to my local linux users group mailing list after all. But I > installed it on a spare computer, in some extra time I had. If I need to be > doing productive work (school work, coding, correspondence, photo editing, > etc) it happens on the mac, because It Just Works. No doubt there is a difference, I would never dispute that. I wish I had the bucks for a Mac, it's always been my dream to pick one up. I'm curious, though, and I'm not asking in an argumentative sense at all: with a Mac, how much is one able to make personalized changes to the way the Mac UI behaves? -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Dr. Zoidberg: "Talk to the claw." Bender: "Bite my collosal metal ass." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 6 17:20:43 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 13:20:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IT360 self evaluation Message-ID: <557267.33751.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I home that a large percentage of the people on this mailing list got down to the IT360 trade show last week and had a chance to look around, visit the GTALug booth and so on. So, we now have about 11 months to get ready for the next IT360 show (next year the show will be mid-April rather than early May). With this in mind, some questions need to be asked like: What did we do well at this show and want to repeat? What went so-so? What should we do differently? Other things we will need to keep in mind, the organization the supplied us with booth furnishing for the 2005 and 2006 shows pulled out at the last minute on this show. Fortunately, David Patrick was able to land us an ... adequate ... last minute replacement (which really was appreciated). Questions for next year: What makes for a great booth? How can we get a great booth on a very limited budget? Some ideas that were sort of dropped on the floor for this year's due to lack of time/money can now be revisited. The BSD people at the show got a LOT of notice due to their clothing, the daemon tails, the clip on horns, the daemon boxer short underwear... (not sure if it was cost effective notice, but notice). So in that area: Do we want to do GTALug and/or Tux clothing items? There was a fair bit of positive response to the idea of doing an electronic name badge at this year's show, but time/cash prevented that from going very far. At some past science fiction conventions I saw a few guys with LED based badges somewhat along the following lines: www.larwe.com/zws/products/picxie2/index.html What I saw at those conventions was a badge done with 2 PCB board (one mounted above the other, top holding the LEDs, the lower one with the ICs and a coin size battery). The above has some real possibilities for our group. The biggest pain in building in the above as described would be wiring the 64 light emitting diodes. Fortunately, due to the electronic sign people you can now buy 64 LED tiles pre-wired... The nice thing about this design being it can be done on inexpensively, on the down side, time/effort/etc.. Do we want to go with some sort electronic name badge? If so, which design? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 6 18:03:04 2007 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 14:03:04 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: <20070506123825.23aa22d9-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <20070505102804.4b999b0e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070506123825.23aa22d9@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: On 5/6/07, JoeHill wrote: > > > No doubt there is a difference, I would never dispute that. I wish I had > the > bucks for a Mac, it's always been my dream to pick one up. I'm curious, > though, > and I'm not asking in an argumentative sense at all: with a Mac, how much > is > one able to make personalized changes to the way the Mac UI behaves? There are of course some options in the System Preferences menu for the look and feel of the OS, but not like one would be used to in Linux, especially if you've used the beryl setting manager. The apple website features this series of articles: http://www.apple.com/support/mac101/customize/ which document how you can customize your mac using the System Preferences. There are also third party apps you can download that can modify the interface in other ways. One example is Uno: http://gui.interacto.net/ But I honestly haven't strayed too far from the defaults. I like the 'graphite' theme, and I put the scroll buttons at the top and bottom of the scroll bar instead of both being at the bottom by default. But beyond that I don't really change much. I like the interface very much. There are of course a few things I'd like to see done a little differently, but they aren't important enough for me to get frustrated by it, I just work around it. And more than a couple of times elements of the interface that I thought I'd hate I've since grown to see are actually really smart. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 6 18:47:59 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 14:47:59 -0400 Subject: Fedora on 64MB RAM In-Reply-To: <20070506103138.8397795d.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <768631270705050942x542267b7qd2bc13bdaf6a5ed9@mail.gmail.com> <20070506103138.8397795d.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <768631270705061147l5e234e8au4024f9c3a2c3fb69@mail.gmail.com> Actually, i was using asterisknow and i wanted to switch the platform. So i tried to install FC6 but the installer complainst that 64MB of RAM is too little and then exits.. I am trying debian right now, it seems a bit better but the package management takes a bit of getting used to.. On 5/6/07, Howard Gibson wrote: > > On Sat, 5 May 2007 12:42:45 -0400 > "Ansar Mohammed" wrote: > > > Does anyone know how to install fedora on a machine with 64MB of RAM? > > > > Ansar, > > I do not see any problems installing it. Are you planning to run > X-windows on this thing? I just upgraded my PII/350 from 256Mb to 636Mb, > and the speed improvement is noticeable, especially when I use my > printer. I am running FC6, with Xen disabled. > > I ran Slackware_3 quite happily on a machine with 20Mb RAM, but they > keep adding bells and whistles. I have retired my P233 laptop with Red Hat > 7.3 and 64Mb RAM because it was too slow running Open Office. > > If you run a small window manager like FVWM2 and use a text editor to > write your formatted documents (HTML and LaTeX), you have a chance. I do > not think web browsing will work. > > Failing all that, Tom Jones by Henry Fielding is an excellent read and > probably a major influence on Douglas Adams when he wrote Hitchhiker's Guide > to the Galaxy. My copy is 884 pages long, but you will have time. :) > > -- > Howard Gibson > hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org > howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org > http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 6 18:53:22 2007 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 14:53:22 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <20070505102804.4b999b0e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070506123825.23aa22d9@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <4386c5b20705061153k1e634e36t223917b90143fc15@mail.gmail.com> > On 5/6/07, JoeHill wrote: how much > is > > one able to make personalized changes to the way the Mac UI behaves? There is a utility called ShapeShifter that provides a great deal of flexibility in changing the interface. It's based on Application Enhancer, a dirty filthy hack that, I believe, makes your system less stable and snappy. Nonetheless, if you want to play, here it is: http://unsanity.com/haxies/shapeshifter Cheers, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sun May 6 23:48:14 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 19:48:14 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <20070505102804.4b999b0e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070506123825.23aa22d9@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <1178495294.4869.113.camel@stan64.site> On Sun, 2007-05-06 at 14:03 -0400, Michael MacLeod wrote: > On 5/6/07, JoeHill wrote: > > No doubt there is a difference, I would never dispute that. I > wish I had the > bucks for a Mac, on that note: Mac igloo G4 for sale (igloo is "the" mac, if you want retro), I got it upwards of two years ago, got a new drive via cpu-used, bought it for 1200$ and then bought legal copy of 10.4 , so have about 1320$ into it. (legal copy should allow you to use it for a upgrade offer to 10.5) make an offer!. no dead pixels. Ran 100% perfect while i had it on (which was 6-8months) then I got a Quad cpu AMD (2.6*4) box running compiz (and 8GB ram), now there is no looking back, and the igloo is enjoying retirement. -tl > it's always been my dream to pick one up. I'm curious, though, > and I'm not asking in an argumentative sense at all: with a > Mac, how much is > one able to make personalized changes to the way the Mac UI > behaves? > > There are of course some options in the System Preferences menu for > the look and feel of the OS, but not like one would be used to in > Linux, especially if you've used the beryl setting manager. > > The apple website features this series of articles: > http://www.apple.com/support/mac101/customize/ which document how you > can customize your mac using the System Preferences. There are also > third party apps you can download that can modify the interface in > other ways. One example is Uno: http://gui.interacto.net/ > > But I honestly haven't strayed too far from the defaults. I like the > 'graphite' theme, and I put the scroll buttons at the top and bottom > of the scroll bar instead of both being at the bottom by default. But > beyond that I don't really change much. I like the interface very > much. There are of course a few things I'd like to see done a little > differently, but they aren't important enough for me to get frustrated > by it, I just work around it. And more than a couple of times elements > of the interface that I thought I'd hate I've since grown to see are > actually really smart. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 11:10:39 2007 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 07:10:39 -0400 Subject: Gmail users - request regarding HTML Message-ID: <20070507111039.GA2023@localhost> To all Gmail users posting to TLUG: The tag lines added to TLUG mailing list postings state: "TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns" Regarding posting in HTML; Gmail, by default, seems to send messages with both a plain text and a duplicate HTML part. To honour the TLUG request, the following links explain how you can set Gmail to use plain text only. I hope I don't come across as the TLUG police or anything. It's just that my mail reader favours displaying the HTML part, which is harder to read than the plain text part. Thanks to Alex Beamish for helping to find and test this technique, since I don't use Gmail myself. Respectfully, Scott Allen -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 11:33:31 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 07:33:31 -0400 Subject: Gmail users - request regarding HTML In-Reply-To: <20070507111039.GA2023@localhost> References: <20070507111039.GA2023@localhost> Message-ID: <1e55af990705070433o24ed0a66w9cf932709c17e232@mail.gmail.com> On 5/7/07, Scott Allen wrote: > Regarding posting in HTML; Unfortunately, gmail sends things as rich text even when no formatting is used. If rich text was used for a legitimate reason in a previous email, then the preference sticks. Bleh. =/ But shouldn't everyone be using Gmail? *hides* -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 12:51:29 2007 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 08:51:29 -0400 Subject: Gmail users - off topic In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705070433o24ed0a66w9cf932709c17e232-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070507111039.GA2023@localhost> <1e55af990705070433o24ed0a66w9cf932709c17e232@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070507125129.DA1DA83833@sarg.ryerson.ca> Sy Ali asks: > But shouldn't everyone be using Gmail? *hides* The answer is: not as long as it's a US company and the US Patriot Act is in place. All your email is kept forever on gmail's servers (likely even after you "delete" it) and hence is accessible to US law enforcement with minimal oversight and gmail is forbidden to even tell you if they are asked to provide information on you to an agency. That won't likely happen out of the blue... but if someone on a mailing list receives email from you and they become a suspect (for good *or* flimsy reasons), you may appear on their radar. As President of a Faculty Association, I hear about many cases of abuses of freedoms, including people permanently banned from the US for slight or no reasons. (For academics, being banned from the US can have career implications as they may not be able to attend many appropriate conferences.) Of course this applies just as much to Yahoo, MSN, etc. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 14:04:53 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 10:04:53 -0400 Subject: Gmail users - request regarding HTML In-Reply-To: <20070507111039.GA2023@localhost> References: <20070507111039.GA2023@localhost> Message-ID: On 5/7/07, Scott Allen wrote: > To all Gmail users posting to TLUG: > > The tag lines added to TLUG mailing list postings state: > "TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns" > > Regarding posting in HTML; > > Gmail, by default, seems to send messages with both a plain text and > a duplicate HTML part. To honour the TLUG request, the following > links explain how you can set Gmail to use plain text only. > > > > > > > > I hope I don't come across as the TLUG police or anything. It's just > that my mail reader favours displaying the HTML part, which is harder > to read than the plain text part. > > Thanks to Alex Beamish for helping to find and test this technique, > since I don't use Gmail myself. And thanks to you, Scott, for approaching me in a tactful and patient manner -- I abhor HTML E-Mail, and was surprised and incredulous to discover that I'd been inadvertently sending it out to the list. Yech. A reminder to GMail users: if you can see 'Rich formatting >>' just above the top left of the window in which you're typing, that's a good thing. If you can see font choices and other formatting junk, you're in a Bad Place. ;) -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 14:13:15 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 10:13:15 -0400 Subject: Gmail users - request regarding HTML In-Reply-To: References: <20070507111039.GA2023@localhost> Message-ID: <22e435080705070713g179d870cn465139d6c6f4879e@mail.gmail.com> On 5/7/07, Alex Beamish wrote: > And thanks to you, Scott, for approaching me in a tactful and patient > manner -- I abhor HTML E-Mail, and was surprised and incredulous to > discover that I'd been inadvertently sending it out to the list. Yech. My apologies to the list as well, I am a sucker to convenience (aka laziness). > A reminder to GMail users: if you can see 'Rich formatting >>' just > above the top left of the window in which you're typing, that's a good > thing. If you can see font choices and other formatting junk, you're > in a Bad Place. ;) Thanks for your efforts on this Alex, is there a place to force the darn thing to always send plain text no matter what. SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 14:37:51 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 10:37:51 -0400 Subject: Gmail users - request regarding HTML In-Reply-To: <22e435080705070713g179d870cn465139d6c6f4879e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070507111039.GA2023@localhost> <22e435080705070713g179d870cn465139d6c6f4879e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/7/07, Sheldon Mustard wrote: > On 5/7/07, Alex Beamish wrote: > [..] > > > A reminder to GMail users: if you can see 'Rich formatting >>' just > > above the top left of the window in which you're typing, that's a good > > thing. If you can see font choices and other formatting junk, you're > > in a Bad Place. ;) > > Thanks for your efforts on this Alex, is there a place to force the > darn thing to always send plain text no matter what. I've searched and searched in Account Settings, but there doesn't appear to be anything that say 'Never use HTML!' as I've seen in other mailing programs. Even replying to your message, GMail hopped into HTML mode, and warned me when I switched back that some formatting would be lost. I was going to guess that it takes its cues from the originating message .. but your message is most definitely text only -- no HTML. I don't care to follow up on this with Google, but if someone else has time, let us know. Cheers, -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 15:04:30 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 11:04:30 -0400 Subject: Gmail users - request regarding HTML In-Reply-To: References: <20070507111039.GA2023@localhost> <22e435080705070713g179d870cn465139d6c6f4879e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420705070804r6c0504a0u8dafd65e0297e446@mail.gmail.com> On 5/7/07, Alex Beamish wrote: > I've searched and searched in Account Settings, but there doesn't > appear to be anything that say 'Never use HTML!' as I've seen in other > mailing programs. Even replying to your message, GMail hopped into > HTML mode, and warned me when I switched back that some formatting > would be lost. > > I was going to guess that it takes its cues from the originating > message .. but your message is most definitely text only -- no HTML. I > don't care to follow up on this with Google, but if someone else has > time, let us know. I read that and thought you must be crazy, or something, because my account defaults to plain text unless someone sends me a rich text email, but then I searched and searched, and I could find anything either. According to this thread: http://groups.google.com/group/Gmail-Problem-solving/browse_thread/thread/3f8e5c113fb19c1d/b83e54f827435544?lnk=gst&q=plain+text&rnum=39#b83e54f827435544 you can get GMail to default to plain text by going to the Compose screen, switch to plain text, and then close the Compose screen. I haven't tried it--I think I'm already in the "default to plain text" mode, and I don't want to screw it up. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 15:14:14 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 11:14:14 -0400 Subject: Gmail users - request regarding HTML In-Reply-To: <7ac602420705070804r6c0504a0u8dafd65e0297e446-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070507111039.GA2023@localhost> <22e435080705070713g179d870cn465139d6c6f4879e@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420705070804r6c0504a0u8dafd65e0297e446@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280705070814k99e0ae4hc9dec721bc920c62@mail.gmail.com> On 5/7/07, Ian Petersen wrote: > According to this thread: > http://groups.google.com/group/Gmail-Problem-solving/browse_thread/thread/3f8e5c113fb19c1d/b83e54f827435544?lnk=gst&q=plain+text&rnum=39#b83e54f827435544 > you can get GMail to default to plain text by going to the Compose > screen, switch to plain text, and then close the Compose screen. > > I haven't tried it--I think I'm already in the "default to plain text" > mode, and I don't want to screw it up. Lucky man. Mine's been defaulting to Rich Text for months, and I don't know what karmic crime I committed to be forced to click on "Plain Text" ten times a day ... I tried to follow this tip, but when I went to "Compose" my only option was to switch to "Rich Formatting," so apparently my "default" is plain. But all my replies (including this one) default to Rich text. So this trick isn't an absolute answer. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 15:43:41 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 11:42:41 -0401 Subject: Gmail users - request regarding HTML In-Reply-To: <1f13df280705070814k99e0ae4hc9dec721bc920c62-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070507111039.GA2023@localhost> <22e435080705070713g179d870cn465139d6c6f4879e@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420705070804r6c0504a0u8dafd65e0297e446@mail.gmail.com> <1f13df280705070814k99e0ae4hc9dec721bc920c62@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420705070843o64d3e139vf55a1efa65aa2cf7@mail.gmail.com> On 5/7/07, Giles Orr wrote: > Lucky man. Mine's been defaulting to Rich Text for months, and I > don't know what karmic crime I committed to be forced to click on > "Plain Text" ten times a day ... I tried to follow this tip, but when > I went to "Compose" my only option was to switch to "Rich Formatting," > so apparently my "default" is plain. But all my replies (including > this one) default to Rich text. So this trick isn't an absolute > answer. I guess I am pretty lucky--I can't stand HTML email. For the motivated, you could probably create a GreaseMonkey script that would solve the problem once and for all. I've never done such a thing, but I think you could create a script that searched for '<< Plain text', within the current page and then simulated a click. Bit of a hack, but at least it automates the repetitive bit. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 17:02:09 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 13:02:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Free stuff... Message-ID: <883441.34975.qm@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I am looking at clearing out some of the ... stuff ... that has collected at home, and would be happy to pass this stuff on to GTALug folks. Ideally I would like is to arrange a mutually convenient pick-up at my place (near Yonge & Eglinton), otherwise I would be willing to take these items to the May 8th TLUG meeting or to the May 9th UU meeting, what I will not do is deliver this stuff. So, on to the items: - TV tuner card: This is an "Easy TV MPEG" card, that is NOT support by the current V4L Linux driver (thus will NOT work with MythTV). It is SAA7130 based card, so even if you do get it to work under Linux it will be a CPU killer (CPUs under 750 MHz need not even bother to apply :-( ). I am offering the card and the driver CD (I am keeping the remote as I hope that will be usable with another project). - Mouse pads: A number of mouse pads, most collected at various trade shows from various firms (some of which no longer exist (who remembers "Computer City Canada"?)). - IBM OS/2 for Windows: floppy disk and CD-ROM combo. - MakoPad PC: Analog game pad with a DB-15 connector. My priority will be to get rid of these items ASAP, so I will favour quick pick-ups or drop offs at the TLUG meeting tomorrow. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 17:47:56 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 13:47:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: TLUG Meeting Tue May 8th at 7:300 In-Reply-To: <1178555449.1835.18.camel-TK/+w0K9Znpg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <1178555449.1835.18.camel@coral.ss.org> Message-ID: <50143.207.188.64.89.1178560076.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Meetings:2007-05 >>From GTALUG > Date :Tuesday May 8, 2007 > Time: 7:30 pm > > Topic: Revolution OS > > Description: > > An authorised public screening of Revolution OS, a 2001 documentary > tracing the history of GNU, Linux, and the open source and free software > movements. > > Location > > Room GB244 or GB2448, Galbraith Building, University of Toronto > Toronto, Ontario M5S 3G8 > University of Toronto > > Map > > http://oracle.osm.utoronto.ca/map/ > > http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=35+St+George+St,+Toronto,+ON&hl=en > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Room GB244 or GB2448, ^^ So, I'm not the only one with bouncing keys. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 17:55:08 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 13:55:08 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <20070505102804.4b999b0e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20070507175508.GC8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, May 06, 2007 at 11:17:06AM -0400, Michael MacLeod wrote: > On 5/5/07, JoeHill wrote: > Actually, I spent some time recently setting up ubuntu feisty on my room > mates computer. Firstly, let me say that Ubuntu continues to impress. I've > been a fan since breezy, but it keeps getting better. Anyway, the computer > dual boots now, and it's specs are good enough to run oblivion well when > booted into windows. It's got an ATI X800 card (not my choice, like I said, > my room mate built it). > > I decided to install beryl. For all the claims of "just do apt-get install > beryl" and it's done, that's just not true. But it took an hour and a half > to get beryl up and running. AIGLX vs. XGL, open vs. closed source driver, > making sure the xorg.conf had compositing disabled vs. enabled, etc. I'm > sorry, but for as wonderful as Ubuntu is (and I'm a fan), there are plenty > of things that still break *way* too often in linux. Yes, beryl is beta > software, and it gets a bit of a pass as a result, but don't try and pretend > it's just a matter of apt-getting it. GFTP is a matter of just apt-getting, > not beryl. Well if you happen to have an nvidia based card and are running the nvidia closed drivers, then it really doesn't take much other than install the beryl packages. If you have something else, you get to play with aiglx or xgl and all that other lovely mess. I actually wasted a bunch of time before figuring out that all those instructions did in fact NOT apply to me since I was using an nvidia where things just worked. No xgl or aiglx mess required. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 18:00:04 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 14:00:04 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: <20070507175508.GC8752-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <20070505102804.4b999b0e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070507175508.GC8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 7-May-07, at 1:55 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, May 06, 2007 at 11:17:06AM -0400, Michael MacLeod wrote: >> On 5/5/07, JoeHill wrote: >> Actually, I spent some time recently setting up ubuntu feisty on >> my room >> mates computer. Firstly, let me say that Ubuntu continues to >> impress. I've >> been a fan since breezy, but it keeps getting better. Anyway, the >> computer >> dual boots now, and it's specs are good enough to run oblivion >> well when >> booted into windows. It's got an ATI X800 card (not my choice, >> like I said, >> my room mate built it). >> >> I decided to install beryl. For all the claims of "just do apt-get >> install >> beryl" and it's done, that's just not true. But it took an hour >> and a half >> to get beryl up and running. AIGLX vs. XGL, open vs. closed source >> driver, >> making sure the xorg.conf had compositing disabled vs. enabled, >> etc. I'm >> sorry, but for as wonderful as Ubuntu is (and I'm a fan), there >> are plenty >> of things that still break *way* too often in linux. Yes, beryl is >> beta >> software, and it gets a bit of a pass as a result, but don't try >> and pretend >> it's just a matter of apt-getting it. GFTP is a matter of just apt- >> getting, >> not beryl. > > Well if you happen to have an nvidia based card and are running the > nvidia closed drivers, then it really doesn't take much other than > install the beryl packages. If you have something else, you get to > play > with aiglx or xgl and all that other lovely mess. > > I actually wasted a bunch of time before figuring out that all those > instructions did in fact NOT apply to me since I was using an nvidia > where things just worked. No xgl or aiglx mess required. This is exactly the point of the Mac argument. There are no "if you happen to have" instances. It all "just works" I have nothing against linux, I wouldn't dream of using OS X in a server environment, but for my day to day work, I simply don't have time to mess with this stuff. --dc-- > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 18:21:02 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 14:21:02 -0400 Subject: Free HP 9000 K200 Message-ID: <1178562062.3151.104.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> I have an HP 9000 K200 server with 2 PA-RISC processors, some 2GB disks and probably 512MB or a gig or memory, DAT (24GB) tape drive and a few dozen serial ports (xon/xoff only). This box is about the size of a bar fridge and twice as heavy. It was taken out of service about 3 years ago, making it about 9 years old in total. It still runs fine and probably has a copy of HPUX 10 running on it. Is anyone interested? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 18:46:59 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 14:46:59 -0400 Subject: Free HP 9000 K200 In-Reply-To: <1178562062.3151.104.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1178562062.3151.104.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <22e435080705071146r5639b7fkf59db3752373884a@mail.gmail.com> On 5/7/07, John Van Ostrand wrote: > I have an HP 9000 K200 server with 2 PA-RISC processors, some 2GB disks and > probably 512MB or a gig or memory, DAT (24GB) tape drive and a few dozen > serial ports (xon/xoff only). This box is about the size of a bar fridge and > twice as heavy. It was taken out of service about 3 years ago, making it > about 9 years old in total. It still runs fine and probably has a copy of > HPUX 10 running on it. > > Is anyone interested? You may won't to post on debian-hppa at lists.debian.org. I would love to take it by my wife would kill me. On a related note if anyone wants to play with this architecture I have a bunch of C3600s (you would need to pickup in Newmarket). They are workstation machines that are 19" high so they fit nice in a standard rack on the side (3 Us IIRC). SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 18:55:41 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 14:55:41 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: <20070507175508.GC8752-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <20070505102804.4b999b0e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070507175508.GC8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070507145541.0024e764@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Lennart Sorensen left a post-it on the fridge: > On Sun, May 06, 2007 at 11:17:06AM -0400, Michael MacLeod wrote: > > On 5/5/07, JoeHill wrote: > > Actually, I spent some time recently setting up ubuntu feisty on my room > > mates computer. Firstly, let me say that Ubuntu continues to impress. I've > > been a fan since breezy, but it keeps getting better. Anyway, the computer > > dual boots now, and it's specs are good enough to run oblivion well when > > booted into windows. It's got an ATI X800 card (not my choice, like I said, > > my room mate built it). > > > > I decided to install beryl. For all the claims of "just do apt-get install > > beryl" and it's done, that's just not true. But it took an hour and a half > > to get beryl up and running. AIGLX vs. XGL, open vs. closed source driver, > > making sure the xorg.conf had compositing disabled vs. enabled, etc. I'm > > sorry, but for as wonderful as Ubuntu is (and I'm a fan), there are plenty > > of things that still break *way* too often in linux. Yes, beryl is beta > > software, and it gets a bit of a pass as a result, but don't try and pretend > > it's just a matter of apt-getting it. GFTP is a matter of just apt-getting, > > not beryl. > > Well if you happen to have an nvidia based card and are running the > nvidia closed drivers, then it really doesn't take much other than > install the beryl packages. If you have something else, you get to play > with aiglx or xgl and all that other lovely mess. > > I actually wasted a bunch of time before figuring out that all those > instructions did in fact NOT apply to me since I was using an nvidia > where things just worked. No xgl or aiglx mess required. Strange, there are about half a dozen troubleshooting points on the Beryl Wiki specific to Nvidia, and 2 of them applied to me ('no window decorations' and 'switching between tty and X'), though they were very very simple to 'tweak'. See here: http://wiki.beryl-project.org/wiki/Troubleshooting_nVidia Again, it only took me an hour or so to sort out, but Michael was right in correcting me that it was not as simple as installing the packages, as I had previously claimed. Conversely, the ATI page is suspiciously blank. Don't know what that means, either 'no problem at all', or 'don't even bother'? ;) Of course, I am a die hard Nvidia fan (Nvidia fanboy?) for similar reasons to yours, I think, in that I have never had to fight very much to get my Nvidia card doing what I want it to (though for some reason the graphics in my games still aren't where I want them to be, despite having a fairly recent and powerful card). -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "Listen, Bender, where's your bathroom?" -Fry "Bath what?" -Bender "Bathroom." -Fry "What room?" -Bender "Bathroom!" -Fry "What what?" Bender "Ah, nevermind." -Fry -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 18:55:51 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 14:55:51 -0400 Subject: Dirty Hydro? In-Reply-To: <20070502204525.GW5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176@mail.gmail.com> <20070502204525.GW5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0705071155sf5fa68fhca552e8220dad850@mail.gmail.com> On 5/2/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well not sure, but I would think any power supply that isn't crap would > deal with that just fine. It is only a 2% fluctuation which should > hardly cause a blip once you reach the capacitors of the voltage > regulator of the system. Thanks to all that replied. I figured much the same as Lennart, but seeing as it's been so long thought I might check with those more knowledgeable than I. I picked up a UPS with voltage regulation today, but it's not having any noticeable effect on either machine. This is driving me up the wall; one I built, one I didn't - but both are freezing up regularly. Any other thoughts or recommendations would be most appreciated. Thanks again. -Scott. -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 19:26:15 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 15:26:15 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: <20070507145541.0024e764-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <20070505102804.4b999b0e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070507175508.GC8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070507145541.0024e764@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20070507192615.GD8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 02:55:41PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > Strange, there are about half a dozen troubleshooting points on the Beryl Wiki > specific to Nvidia, and 2 of them applied to me ('no window decorations' and > 'switching between tty and X'), though they were very very simple to 'tweak'. > > See here: > > http://wiki.beryl-project.org/wiki/Troubleshooting_nVidia > > Again, it only took me an hour or so to sort out, but Michael was right in > correcting me that it was not as simple as installing the packages, as I had > previously claimed. > > Conversely, the ATI page is suspiciously blank. Don't know what that means, > either 'no problem at all', or 'don't even bother'? ;) More of a 'expect pain'. ATI's binary drivers don't allow GLX and Composite to be enabled at the same time, which make for some interesting problems. I don't know if it requries aiglx or xgl ro work, assuming it can be made to work somehow. > Of course, I am a die hard Nvidia fan (Nvidia fanboy?) for similar reasons to > yours, I think, in that I have never had to fight very much to get my Nvidia > card doing what I want it to (though for some reason the graphics in my games > still aren't where I want them to be, despite having a fairly recent and > powerful card). I like nvidia because they provide drivers that work, and keep supporting old hardware for a long time, although they have started to discontinue updates for very old chips. ATI lost my support due to not giving a damn about anything other than the current chips some years ago (and that was for windows drivers not linux). I am not sure how many years it will take before I will consider ATI again, since I don't like to be ripped off and/or lied to as a customer. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 19:28:24 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 15:28:24 -0400 Subject: Dirty Hydro? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705071155sf5fa68fhca552e8220dad850-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176@mail.gmail.com> <20070502204525.GW5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <99a6c38f0705071155sf5fa68fhca552e8220dad850@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070507192824.GE8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 02:55:51PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > I figured much the same as Lennart, but seeing as it's been so long > thought I might check with those more knowledgeable than I. > > I picked up a UPS with voltage regulation today, but it's not having > any noticeable effect on either machine. This is driving me up the > wall; one I built, one I didn't - but both are freezing up regularly. > > Any other thoughts or recommendations would be most appreciated. Thanks > again. So what hardware is in each machine (cpu,mainboard,powersupply,HD,etc) and which distribution/kernelversion are you running on them? Random crashes and such are often cuased by either: Too small or too unstable a power supply Bad RAM or at least RAM that isn't stable enough for the memory controller -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 19:35:28 2007 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 15:35:28 -0400 Subject: Dirty Hydro? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705071155sf5fa68fhca552e8220dad850-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176@mail.gmail.com> <20070502204525.GW5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <99a6c38f0705071155sf5fa68fhca552e8220dad850@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200705071535.29049.dbmacg@look.ca> Last year, in Toronto, I had a strange thing happen with my aging TV set, a 28" Hitachi. From July through to September, it would not turn on reliably. (The power switch is of the 'instant-on' variety.) Then in late September, it consistently worked fine again. Since the end of September last year I wondered if this was some sort of low-voltage experiment on the part of Hydro. -- Duncan MacGregor - Toronto - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 19:54:58 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 15:54:58 -0400 Subject: Dirty Hydro? In-Reply-To: <200705071535.29049.dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176@mail.gmail.com> <20070502204525.GW5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <99a6c38f0705071155sf5fa68fhca552e8220dad850@mail.gmail.com> <200705071535.29049.dbmacg@look.ca> Message-ID: <20070507195458.GF8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 03:35:28PM -0400, Duncan MacGregor wrote: > Last year, in Toronto, I had a strange thing happen with my aging TV set, a > 28" Hitachi. > > From July through to September, it would not turn on reliably. (The power > switch is of the 'instant-on' variety.) Then in late September, it > consistently worked fine again. > > Since the end of September last year I wondered if this was some sort of > low-voltage experiment on the part of Hydro. It appears that it is considered normal practice to reduce the voltage by up to 3% whenever the electrical system is close to reaching it's capacity limits, which of course happens mostly during the summer. On the other hand I would be surprised that the electronics parts would't have a good enough voltage regulator to not care one way or the other. It almost seems more likely that the house being hotter or more humid could cause the problem. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 21:51:40 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 17:51:40 -0400 Subject: Free HP 9000 K200 In-Reply-To: <1178562062.3151.104.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1178562062.3151.104.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <463F9F6C.10600@alteeve.com> John Van Ostrand wrote: > I have an HP 9000 K200 server with 2 PA-RISC processors, some 2GB disks > and probably 512MB or a gig or memory, DAT (24GB) tape drive and a few > dozen serial ports (xon/xoff only). This box is about the size of a bar > fridge and twice as heavy. It was taken out of service about 3 years > ago, making it about 9 years old in total. It still runs fine and > probably has a copy of HPUX 10 running on it. > > Is anyone interested? I may be interested. :) Have any takers yet? Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 22:00:32 2007 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 18:00:32 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <20070505102804.4b999b0e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20070507220032.GA2943@md5.ca> Michael MacLeod(mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org)@Sun, May 06, 2007 at 11:17:06AM -0400: > Actually, I spent some time recently setting up ubuntu feisty on my room > mates computer. Firstly, let me say that Ubuntu continues to impress. I've > been a fan since breezy, but it keeps getting better. Anyway, the computer > dual boots now, and it's specs are good enough to run oblivion well when > booted into windows. It's got an ATI X800 card (not my choice, like I said, > my room mate built it). Mike works in tech support so he is acutely aware of potential user interface problems in general. I agree, no matter how wonderful linux is, all neat things seem to come with a price of knowing the way things layed out "under the hood". That is from the view of a regular computer user. I don't doubt that soon, beryl will be a standard package, however but not for laptops as you can see it devouring your battery pretty fast. If they will make it energy efficent on CPU and the parts, or at least make lean and mean but still useful beryl, it may well become the standard. Cheers, Pavel -- Create like God. Command like a King. Work like a Slave. http://arslogic.com | http://arslogic.com/resume.pdf direct: 416-564-5255 | fax: 416-596-0128 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 22:44:28 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 18:44:28 -0400 Subject: Free HP 9000 K200 Message-ID: Hi Madison, It is still available. Do you have a mean of transporting it? I'm not sure it will fit into today's cars. ----- Original Message ----- From: Madison Kelly [linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org] Sent: 07/05/2007 05:51 PM AST To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Free HP 9000 K200 John Van Ostrand wrote: > I have an HP 9000 K200 server with 2 PA-RISC processors, some 2GB disks > and probably 512MB or a gig or memory, DAT (24GB) tape drive and a few > dozen serial ports (xon/xoff only). This box is about the size of a bar > fridge and twice as heavy. It was taken out of service about 3 years > ago, making it about 9 years old in total. It still runs fine and > probably has a copy of HPUX 10 running on it. > > Is anyone interested? I may be interested. :) Have any takers yet? Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 8 00:23:12 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 20:23:12 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: <20070507175508.GC8752-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <20070505102804.4b999b0e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070507175508.GC8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1178583792.6881.23.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2007-07-05 at 13:55 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, May 06, 2007 at 11:17:06AM -0400, Michael MacLeod wrote: > > On 5/5/07, JoeHill wrote: > > Actually, I spent some time recently setting up ubuntu feisty on my room > > mates computer. Firstly, let me say that Ubuntu continues to impress. I've > > been a fan since breezy, but it keeps getting better. Anyway, the computer > > dual boots now, and it's specs are good enough to run oblivion well when > > booted into windows. It's got an ATI X800 card (not my choice, like I said, > > my room mate built it). > > > > I decided to install beryl. For all the claims of "just do apt-get install > > beryl" and it's done, that's just not true. But it took an hour and a half > > to get beryl up and running. AIGLX vs. XGL, open vs. closed source driver, > > making sure the xorg.conf had compositing disabled vs. enabled, etc. I'm > > sorry, but for as wonderful as Ubuntu is (and I'm a fan), there are plenty > > of things that still break *way* too often in linux. Yes, beryl is beta > > software, and it gets a bit of a pass as a result, but don't try and pretend > > it's just a matter of apt-getting it. GFTP is a matter of just apt-getting, > > not beryl. > > Well if you happen to have an nvidia based card and are running the > nvidia closed drivers, then it really doesn't take much other than > install the beryl packages. If you have something else, you get to play > with aiglx or xgl and all that other lovely mess. > not quite true; if your ATI card is supported by the radeon driver, that driver works (in my experience at least) FLAWLESSLY with beryl. And it doesn't interfere with the various suspend-to-[ram|disk] implementations either. m > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue May 8 00:34:17 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 20:34:17 -0400 Subject: Linux and a dead smartphone Message-ID: <463FC589.4050105@telly.org> Hi all, The touchscreen on my four-year-old Treo has fallen over and died. The phone is still quite functional without it, but it does miss some important features. Worse, if the phone ever reboots -- rare, but it happens -- it essentially becomes a brick, going into an endless loop of trying to calibrate a touchscreen that will never respond. I've called Rogers and their answer is to upgrade, of course. They've suggested one of two possible replacements -- the newer Treo 680, or the HTC S621 -- for which they've offered me an extremely good deal. The S621 -- known in the US as the T-Mobile Dash -- has good reviews. Most notably, it supports Wifi, and runs Skype and other softphones. This means, at a hotspot, I have the choice of calling using VOIP or the cell network, which I consider to be a Really Good Feature. Add bluetooth and a good media player, and it's quite the option. The problem is that its platform is Windows Mobile. Do any other options exist, of GSM cellphones that can do Wifi (and run a softphone)? Moreover (which brings us to the TLUG relevance), does anyone here have experience with the GPE (Linux for cellphone) platform? I've tried the weblinks but have a difficult time finding out the status. There are some stories of people who have made a Treo boot Linux (ie, http://www.grack.com/programming/misc/TreoLinux.html) but I can't find any details even about what hardware platforms are suitable for GPE. Is anyone here involved with GPE, or at least following it more closely? There are announcements of Linux-based Treos by years' end, but I won't be able to wait that long. Any suggestions of other options? Thanks! - Evan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3837 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 8 00:35:02 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 20:35:02 -0400 Subject: Free HP 9000 K200 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <463FC5B6.20205@alteeve.com> john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hi Madison, > > It is still available. Do you have a mean of transporting it? I'm not > sure it will fit into today's cars. Wow, didn't realize it's so big! :) I think it'll fit in my car (Honda Fit; generous hatch/mini-minivan). Where abouts is the machine? Maybe I could stop by tomorrow after work and take a look? Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 8 00:45:50 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 20:45:50 -0400 Subject: Free HP 9000 K200 Message-ID: Hi Madison, Tomorrow is fine. I'm in the office until about 10am and out the rest of the week. I can mention it to my staff to keep an eye out for you and help load if needed. ----- Original Message ----- From: Madison Kelly [linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org] Sent: 07/05/2007 08:35 PM AST To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Free HP 9000 K200 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hi Madison, > > It is still available. Do you have a mean of transporting it? I'm not > sure it will fit into today's cars. Wow, didn't realize it's so big! :) I think it'll fit in my car (Honda Fit; generous hatch/mini-minivan). Where abouts is the machine? Maybe I could stop by tomorrow after work and take a look? Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 8 04:58:41 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 00:58:41 -0400 Subject: Free HP 9000 K200 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46400381.9040100@alteeve.com> john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hi Madison, > > Tomorrow is fine. I'm in the office until about 10am and out the rest of > the week. I can mention it to my staff to keep an eye out for you and > help load if needed. Can you email me your addy and phone number? mkelly at alteeve.com Thanks! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Tue May 8 12:19:02 2007 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 08:19:02 -0400 Subject: Linux and a dead smartphone In-Reply-To: <463FC589.4050105-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <463FC589.4050105@telly.org> Message-ID: <200705080819.02866.dbmacg@look.ca> Maybe you can restore the Palm. It is worth noting that in many Palm devices, there is a cable connecting adjacent circuit boards. The contacts for these cables are physical, not soldered. So pulling the plugs on such cables and reseating them will often restore operation. This certainly works on Palm III-series devices, and before you scrap the Treo it is worth a try. see http://treotricks.blogspot.com/2005_11_13_treotricks_archive.html Palm has been enthusiastically talking about use of Linux in new devices. Duncan On May 7, 2007 08:34:17 pm Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hi all, > > The touchscreen on my four-year-old Treo has fallen over and died. The > phone is still quite functional without it, but it does miss some > important features. Worse, if the phone ever reboots -- rare, but it > happens -- it essentially becomes a brick, going into an endless loop of > trying to calibrate a touchscreen that will never respond. > > I've called Rogers and their answer is to upgrade, of course. They've > suggested one of two possible replacements -- the newer Treo 680, or the > HTC S621 -- for which they've offered me an extremely good deal. > > The S621 -- known in the US as the T-Mobile Dash -- has good reviews. > Most notably, it supports Wifi, and runs Skype and other softphones. > This means, at a hotspot, I have the choice of calling using VOIP or the > cell network, which I consider to be a Really Good Feature. Add > bluetooth and a good media player, and it's quite the option. The > problem is that its platform is Windows Mobile. > > Do any other options exist, of GSM cellphones that can do Wifi (and run > a softphone)? > > Moreover (which brings us to the TLUG relevance), does anyone here have > experience with the GPE (Linux for cellphone) platform? I've tried the > weblinks but have a difficult time finding out the status. There are > some stories of people who have made a Treo boot Linux (ie, > http://www.grack.com/programming/misc/TreoLinux.html) but I can't find > any details even about what hardware platforms are suitable for GPE. > > Is anyone here involved with GPE, or at least following it more closely? > There are announcements of Linux-based Treos by years' end, but I won't > be able to wait that long. Any suggestions of other options? > > Thanks! > > - Evan -- Duncan MacGregor - Toronto - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zh.huang-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 8 13:21:39 2007 From: zh.huang-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rex Huang) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 21:21:39 +0800 Subject: is LPIC Certifications Respected in industry. In-Reply-To: References: <32f6a8880704261608h7e6732b0p5bdc8628d0485f67@mail.gmail.com> <20070427212718.GJ5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <573409e0705080621l23044bdoa6c523e7d7570e79@mail.gmail.com> On 5/2/07, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 30 Apr 2007, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > > After 12 years of living in Canada as a fucken in fact immmigrant I have now > > a better view and am not afraid to express myself. > > Hi Zbigniew. I'm an immigrant (4 years) too so I felt like commenting. > > Hi, Zb, and Rob, I am going to move to Canada from China this summer. I do have some good wish for my new journey, but to find a job will be the most important and a must-done task. My understanding, the only same vocabulary between China job market and Canada's is the certificates, which means you have certain knowledge and could perform some job. I got a CCNA, but i don't work on Cisco routers or switches. The CCNA training and exam help me building a solid TCP/IP knowledge base. I got a EMC NAS Specialist certificate too, but its exam reqirements are far less than I need for daily work. I prefer 'real' knowledge and practice than certificate, but I hope my two certificates could help me finding a job in Canada. Cheers /rex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 8 14:20:36 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 10:20:36 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: <1178583792.6881.23.camel@localhost> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <20070505102804.4b999b0e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070507175508.GC8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1178583792.6881.23.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20070508142036.GG8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 08:23:12PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > not quite true; if your ATI card is supported by the radeon driver, that > driver works (in my experience at least) FLAWLESSLY with beryl. And it > doesn't interfere with the various suspend-to-[ram|disk] implementations > either. I thought the radeon driver was 2D only (fglrx needed for 3D). Did something change recently there? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 8 16:30:11 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 12:30:11 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: <20070508142036.GG8752-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <20070505102804.4b999b0e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070507175508.GC8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1178583792.6881.23.camel@localhost> <20070508142036.GG8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4640A593.8010904@utoronto.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 08:23:12PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: >> not quite true; if your ATI card is supported by the radeon driver, that >> driver works (in my experience at least) FLAWLESSLY with beryl. And it >> doesn't interfere with the various suspend-to-[ram|disk] implementations >> either. > > I thought the radeon driver was 2D only (fglrx needed for 3D). Did > something change recently there? I think the radeon driver uses DRI and mesa for the 3D bits. Whatever it uses, my laptop 9600 card is much more stable with the radeon driver vs. fglrx, and it fully supports beryl and such with the open source driver. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Tue May 8 21:28:38 2007 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 17:28:38 -0400 Subject: Linux and a dead smartphone In-Reply-To: <200705080819.02866.dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM@public.gmane.org> References: <463FC589.4050105@telly.org> <200705080819.02866.dbmacg@look.ca> Message-ID: <200705081728.39049.dbmacg@look.ca> On May 8, 2007 08:19:02 am Duncan MacGregor wrote: > Maybe you can restore the Palm. > > It is worth noting that in many Palm devices, there is a cable connecting > adjacent circuit boards. The contacts for these cables are physical, not Of course the connections are mechanical, subject to oxidation and becoming loose. > soldered. So pulling the plugs on such cables and reseating them will often > restore operation. This certainly works on Palm III-series devices, and > before you scrap the Treo it is worth a try. -- Duncan MacGregor - Toronto - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed May 9 02:56:04 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 22:56:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Revolution OS Message-ID: <50861.207.188.64.89.1178679364.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Thanks to the folks who put together tonight's TLUG meeting. It was interesting to see and hear some of the main characters behind Free Software/Open Source. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed May 9 07:11:52 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 09:11:52 +0200 Subject: desktop system for sale !cheap! In-Reply-To: <4637A707.2010909-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <4637A707.2010909@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <46417438.3060003@visible-assets.com> Hi to everyone who replied, I was pretty amazed to have a reply within about 20 minutes of posting to the list. The machine has been sold - i only wish i could have had a machine to sell to each one of you who replied ;-) Cheers, Chris Christopher Friedt wrote: > I just thought I'd mention again that I have a fairly recent amd64 > desktop system for sale. I'm willing to give it away for extremely > cheap. The only reason I'm selling it is that I'm out of the country for > an extended period of time & don't have anywhere to store it. > > Please email me off-list if you're interested. > > The specs are listed below: > > ======================= $ 450 ============================== > > Processor: AMD Athlon64 3000+ ( up to 2.4 GHz, Socket 939) > Chipset: VIA K8T800 Pro > Graphics: ATI Radeon 9200 (64MB dedicated DDR RAM) > Memory: 1GB PC3200 DDR RAM (up to 4GB) > Network: integrated Realtek 8110S gigabit ethernet adapter > MSI PC54G2 PCI Wireless-G (open-source ralink driver) > w/ external antenna > Audio: Realtek ALC850 8-Channel with SPDIF out (integrated) > Creative SB-Live (PCI) + gameport > > Other MoBo features: > Both SATA / IDE controllers, RAID[01] controller, > ACPI power management, 2 x IEEE 1394a, > 8 USB ports (4 front), audio in front / back, IrDA, > Parallel port, Serial port > > Other things included: > 17-inch trinitron (flat, CRT) Monitor, > Micro$oft Sidewinder gamepad, surround speakers, > really nice black case, 2-channel KVM switcher, > 40GB hard drive. Micro$oft Natural Keyboard, > Logitech Optical wheel mouse, Dual Layer DVD-RW+/- > > ======================= $ 450 ============================== > > This machine is only approximately 17 months old. I've been away since > October and it's been doing absolutely nothing for 8 of those months. > > All hardware is 100% linux compatible, including OpenGL acceleration wth > the ATI graphics adapter using proprietary drivers. > > Aside from linux enthusiasts, if anyone has a son or daughter going to > university soon, this would be an excellent way to save money instead of > buying a brand-new computer with all peripherals. > > The motherboard uses the same socket (939) as the newer multi-core AMD > processors, but i've only tested it with a single-core processor. > > I'm practically giving this machine away because i'm selling it for > $450. Originally I paid around $900 for the case, motherboard, ram, and > CPU - pci parts alone. The AGP card was originally $100, the Wireless > card was a special order for $130, and the audio card was originally > $100. The monitor was originally $100. I haven't taken any of the other > parts into my price approximation, but it's safe to say that I'm selling > it for less than 33% of the original price. > > Everything is in excellent condition except 1 channel in the surround > speakers doesn't work, but they're really old and better speaker systems > can be purchased relatively cheap. > > Please email me off-list if you're interested. > > the manufacturer's details are below: > > Motherboard: > http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K8T_Neo2-FIR > > Wireless PCI adapter: > http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=PC54G2 > http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/products/wireless/ > http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/wiki/index.php/Hardware > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 9 16:15:10 2007 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 00:15:10 +0800 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity Message-ID: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> hi, i need suggestion on a good ISP provider in north america (reliable and has a god track record).. or to be exact someone that can provide internet connectivity in a data center in one wilshire.. thanks, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 9 19:27:21 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 15:27:21 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <200705100015.10654.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> JM wrote: > hi, > > i need suggestion on a good ISP provider in north america (reliable and has > a god track record).. That's asking a bit much, isn't it? ;-) My ISP is Rogers and I find the service is very good. It's far better than Sympatico. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 9 19:37:14 2007 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 15:37:14 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <46422099.2060709-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 5/9/07, James Knott wrote: > JM wrote: > > hi, > > > > i need suggestion on a good ISP provider in north america (reliable and has > > a god track record).. > > That's asking a bit much, isn't it? ;-) > > My ISP is Rogers and I find the service is very good. It's far better > than Sympatico. I have Sympatico and find it much more reliable than Rogers. Go figure. Basically, there's no way to know which will be better until you try them both. Service levels vary so much depending on the area and infrastructure in your area. Basically, while Rogers may be terrific in one neighborhood, Sympatico is better in another. Also, service levels change as money gets spent on the infrastructure. Where I live used to have TERRIBLE service from Sympatico. Rogers was certainly superior. Then Bell ripped out the 30 or 40 year old phone lines and laid down fiber all over the area. Now I'm with Bell and it's fantastic. Haven't had a problem for months. Much faster now too. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 9 20:51:21 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 16:51:21 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> Message-ID: <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> Michael MacLeod wrote: > On 5/9/07, James Knott wrote: >> JM wrote: >> > hi, >> > >> > i need suggestion on a good ISP provider in north america >> (reliable and has >> > a god track record).. >> >> That's asking a bit much, isn't it? ;-) >> >> My ISP is Rogers and I find the service is very good. It's far better >> than Sympatico. > > I have Sympatico and find it much more reliable than Rogers. Go > figure. Basically, there's no way to know which will be better until > you try them both. Service levels vary so much depending on the area > and infrastructure in your area. Basically, while Rogers may be > terrific in one neighborhood, Sympatico is better in another. > > Also, service levels change as money gets spent on the infrastructure. > Where I live used to have TERRIBLE service from Sympatico. Rogers was > certainly superior. Then Bell ripped out the 30 or 40 year old phone > lines and laid down fiber all over the area. Now I'm with Bell and > it's fantastic. Haven't had a problem for months. Much faster now too. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists As part of my work, I occasionally have to deal with Sympatico, on behalf of business customers. It is always a problem, as the help desk won't help you, if you can't click on the "Start" button. Problem is, the equipment that's connected to the ADSL line, is not a desktop computer. It has no keyboard, monitor or start button. If you try to escalate to someone who might know what they're talking about, they'll hang up on you. At least with Rogers, you can escalate and since the help desk is not in India, you have a good chance of communicating. We don't have the same problems, when the customer is on Primus or Telus. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 9 20:56:46 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 16:56:46 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <46423449.3090403-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> James Knott wrote: > Michael MacLeod wrote: >> On 5/9/07, James Knott wrote: >>> JM wrote: >>> > hi, >>> > >>> > i need suggestion on a good ISP provider in north america >>> (reliable and has >>> > a god track record).. >>> >>> That's asking a bit much, isn't it? ;-) >>> >>> My ISP is Rogers and I find the service is very good. It's far better >>> than Sympatico. >> >> I have Sympatico and find it much more reliable than Rogers. Go >> figure. Basically, there's no way to know which will be better until >> you try them both. Service levels vary so much depending on the area >> and infrastructure in your area. Basically, while Rogers may be >> terrific in one neighborhood, Sympatico is better in another. >> >> Also, service levels change as money gets spent on the infrastructure. >> Where I live used to have TERRIBLE service from Sympatico. Rogers was >> certainly superior. Then Bell ripped out the 30 or 40 year old phone >> lines and laid down fiber all over the area. Now I'm with Bell and >> it's fantastic. Haven't had a problem for months. Much faster now too. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > As part of my work, I occasionally have to deal with Sympatico, on > behalf of business customers. It is always a problem, as the help desk > won't help you, if you can't click on the "Start" button. Problem is, > the equipment that's connected to the ADSL line, is not a desktop > computer. It has no keyboard, monitor or start button. If you try to > escalate to someone who might know what they're talking about, they'll > hang up on you. At least with Rogers, you can escalate and since the > help desk is not in India, you have a good chance of communicating. We > don't have the same problems, when the customer is on Primus or Telus. Teksavvy have helped me with Linux though officially it is unsupported. Router or no router too. Price is right for a 5meg profile ($29.95), and wherever you can get Sympatico in southern Ontario, I think you can get Teksavvy. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 9 21:22:07 2007 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 17:22:07 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <4642358E.2080004-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880705091422x26a54ff8nbe38be1a0d742497@mail.gmail.com> Umm.. I have problems with rogers and torrents. I use www.ca.inter.net Tell them i refered u :) davegermiquet-xTdrhCdPGzvk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org :) seems to be doing alright. On 5/9/07, Jamon Camisso wrote: > > James Knott wrote: > > Michael MacLeod wrote: > >> On 5/9/07, James Knott wrote: > >>> JM wrote: > >>> > hi, > >>> > > >>> > i need suggestion on a good ISP provider in north america > >>> (reliable and has > >>> > a god track record).. > >>> > >>> That's asking a bit much, isn't it? ;-) > >>> > >>> My ISP is Rogers and I find the service is very good. It's far better > >>> than Sympatico. > >> > >> I have Sympatico and find it much more reliable than Rogers. Go > >> figure. Basically, there's no way to know which will be better until > >> you try them both. Service levels vary so much depending on the area > >> and infrastructure in your area. Basically, while Rogers may be > >> terrific in one neighborhood, Sympatico is better in another. > >> > >> Also, service levels change as money gets spent on the infrastructure. > >> Where I live used to have TERRIBLE service from Sympatico. Rogers was > >> certainly superior. Then Bell ripped out the 30 or 40 year old phone > >> lines and laid down fiber all over the area. Now I'm with Bell and > >> it's fantastic. Haven't had a problem for months. Much faster now too. > >> -- > >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > As part of my work, I occasionally have to deal with Sympatico, on > > behalf of business customers. It is always a problem, as the help desk > > won't help you, if you can't click on the "Start" button. Problem is, > > the equipment that's connected to the ADSL line, is not a desktop > > computer. It has no keyboard, monitor or start button. If you try to > > escalate to someone who might know what they're talking about, they'll > > hang up on you. At least with Rogers, you can escalate and since the > > help desk is not in India, you have a good chance of communicating. We > > don't have the same problems, when the customer is on Primus or Telus. > > Teksavvy have helped me with Linux though officially it is unsupported. > Router or no router too. Price is right for a 5meg profile ($29.95), and > wherever you can get Sympatico in southern Ontario, I think you can get > Teksavvy. > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org Wed May 9 21:25:12 2007 From: tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor) Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 17:25:12 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <4642358E.2080004-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070509212512.GA4131@thecat.localnet> On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 04:56:46PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > James Knott wrote: > >Michael MacLeod wrote: > >>On 5/9/07, James Knott wrote: > >>>JM wrote: > >>>> hi, > >>>> > >>>> i need suggestion on a good ISP provider in north america > >>>(reliable and has > >>>> a god track record).. > >>> > >>>That's asking a bit much, isn't it? ;-) > >>> > >>>My ISP is Rogers and I find the service is very good. It's far better > >>>than Sympatico. > >> > >>I have Sympatico and find it much more reliable than Rogers. Go > >>figure. Basically, there's no way to know which will be better until > >>you try them both. Service levels vary so much depending on the area > >>and infrastructure in your area. Basically, while Rogers may be > >>terrific in one neighborhood, Sympatico is better in another. > >> > >As part of my work, I occasionally have to deal with Sympatico, on > >behalf of business customers. It is always a problem, as the help desk > >won't help you, if you can't click on the "Start" button. Problem is, > >the equipment that's connected to the ADSL line, is not a desktop > >computer. It has no keyboard, monitor or start button. If you try to > >escalate to someone who might know what they're talking about, they'll > >hang up on you. At least with Rogers, you can escalate and since the > >help desk is not in India, you have a good chance of communicating. We > >don't have the same problems, when the customer is on Primus or Telus. > > Teksavvy have helped me with Linux though officially it is unsupported. > Router or no router too. Price is right for a 5meg profile ($29.95), and > wherever you can get Sympatico in southern Ontario, I think you can get > Teksavvy. I'll second the Teksavvy nomination. I use them personally with a dry-DSL setup with phone service via Primus VOIP. I have set up a couple of clients and my wife's church on Teksavvy. Excellent tech support. Fixed IP is nice too. I will reluctantly recommend Rogers in some cases but I will never recommend Symaptico. Their tech support is very spotty - I have talked to some very knowledgable techs' but mostly very bad tech's at Sympatico - and I'm a very leary of their strong link to Microsoft/MSN. I have worked on more than one machine where the Sympatico tech has talked the user into doing something that completely cut them off and then couldn't talk them thru connecting again (more fees for me though . . hmm). Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 9 22:19:07 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 18:19:07 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <4642358E.2080004-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <464248DB.6050305@rogers.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> Michael MacLeod wrote: >>> On 5/9/07, James Knott wrote: >>>> JM wrote: >>>> > hi, >>>> > >>>> > i need suggestion on a good ISP provider in north america >>>> (reliable and has >>>> > a god track record).. >>>> >>>> That's asking a bit much, isn't it? ;-) >>>> >>>> My ISP is Rogers and I find the service is very good. It's far better >>>> than Sympatico. >>> >>> I have Sympatico and find it much more reliable than Rogers. Go >>> figure. Basically, there's no way to know which will be better until >>> you try them both. Service levels vary so much depending on the area >>> and infrastructure in your area. Basically, while Rogers may be >>> terrific in one neighborhood, Sympatico is better in another. >>> >>> Also, service levels change as money gets spent on the infrastructure. >>> Where I live used to have TERRIBLE service from Sympatico. Rogers was >>> certainly superior. Then Bell ripped out the 30 or 40 year old phone >>> lines and laid down fiber all over the area. Now I'm with Bell and >>> it's fantastic. Haven't had a problem for months. Much faster now too. >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> As part of my work, I occasionally have to deal with Sympatico, on >> behalf of business customers. It is always a problem, as the help >> desk won't help you, if you can't click on the "Start" button. >> Problem is, the equipment that's connected to the ADSL line, is not a >> desktop computer. It has no keyboard, monitor or start button. If >> you try to escalate to someone who might know what they're talking >> about, they'll hang up on you. At least with Rogers, you can >> escalate and since the help desk is not in India, you have a good >> chance of communicating. We don't have the same problems, when the >> customer is on Primus or Telus. > > Teksavvy have helped me with Linux though officially it is > unsupported. Router or no router too. Price is right for a 5meg > profile ($29.95), and wherever you can get Sympatico in southern > Ontario, I think you can get Teksavvy. The equipment I'm working with isn't running Linux, at least not that I'm aware of. It's communications and networking equipment, often communicating over an ADSL line. With one customer, the help(?) desk was so bad that even the customer tried talking to them and she was all but pulling her hair out in frustration. We finally got the issue resolved, when the customer put pressure on the salesman to get the problem fixed. Even at that, it took over a month, and 4 site visits by me, before the system was up. All of the delay was due to Sympatico problems. As I mentioned earlier, I work with a variety of communications companies, as part of my work and none are anywhere near as bad as Sympatico. Even Bell employees I've worked with don't care much for dealing with Sympatico. One thing Sympatico has to learn, is that you don't get good help desk, by outsourcing to India. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 9 22:20:13 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 18:20:13 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <20070509212512.GA4131-70WplSiaoiAG/9ncUZ6upg@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> <20070509212512.GA4131@thecat.localnet> Message-ID: <4642491D.4020709@rogers.com> Allen Taylor wrote: > On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 04:56:46PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > >> James Knott wrote: >> >>> Michael MacLeod wrote: >>> >>>> On 5/9/07, James Knott wrote: >>>> >>>>> JM wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> i need suggestion on a good ISP provider in north america >>>>>> >>>>> (reliable and has >>>>> >>>>>> a god track record).. >>>>>> >>>>> That's asking a bit much, isn't it? ;-) >>>>> >>>>> My ISP is Rogers and I find the service is very good. It's far better >>>>> than Sympatico. >>>>> >>>> I have Sympatico and find it much more reliable than Rogers. Go >>>> figure. Basically, there's no way to know which will be better until >>>> you try them both. Service levels vary so much depending on the area >>>> and infrastructure in your area. Basically, while Rogers may be >>>> terrific in one neighborhood, Sympatico is better in another. >>>> >>>> >>> As part of my work, I occasionally have to deal with Sympatico, on >>> behalf of business customers. It is always a problem, as the help desk >>> won't help you, if you can't click on the "Start" button. Problem is, >>> the equipment that's connected to the ADSL line, is not a desktop >>> computer. It has no keyboard, monitor or start button. If you try to >>> escalate to someone who might know what they're talking about, they'll >>> hang up on you. At least with Rogers, you can escalate and since the >>> help desk is not in India, you have a good chance of communicating. We >>> don't have the same problems, when the customer is on Primus or Telus. >>> >> Teksavvy have helped me with Linux though officially it is unsupported. >> Router or no router too. Price is right for a 5meg profile ($29.95), and >> wherever you can get Sympatico in southern Ontario, I think you can get >> Teksavvy. >> > > I'll second the Teksavvy nomination. I use them personally with a > dry-DSL setup with phone service via Primus VOIP. I have set up a couple > of clients and my wife's church on Teksavvy. Excellent tech support. > Fixed IP is nice too. > > I will reluctantly recommend Rogers in some cases but I will never > recommend Symaptico. Their tech support is very spotty - I have talked > to some very knowledgable techs' but mostly very bad tech's at Sympatico > - and I'm a very leary of their strong link to Microsoft/MSN. I have > worked on more than one machine where the Sympatico tech has talked the > user into doing something that completely cut them off and then couldn't > talk them thru connecting again (more fees for me though . . hmm). > > Allen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > As these are customer systems, I'm working on, I don't get to choose the provider. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 10:37:14 2007 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 06:37:14 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <464248DB.6050305-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <464248DB.6050305@rogers.com> Message-ID: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F473033DF762@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> I'll second the Sympatico problems. Call it arrogance and incompetence. In 12 years of doing 2-3 work orders a month for clients, I've had 2 go without a hitch. That's a dismal track record and it's the same story EVERY time. Every time a client tells me it's Sympatico, I tack another 3 hrs to the estimate just to deal with Sympatico. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of James Knott Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 6:19 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: Internet connectivity Jamon Camisso wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> Michael MacLeod wrote: >>> On 5/9/07, James Knott wrote: >>>> JM wrote: >>>> > hi, >>>> > >>>> > i need suggestion on a good ISP provider in north america >>>> (reliable and has >>>> > a god track record).. >>>> >>>> That's asking a bit much, isn't it? ;-) >>>> >>>> My ISP is Rogers and I find the service is very good. It's far >>>> better than Sympatico. >>> >>> I have Sympatico and find it much more reliable than Rogers. Go >>> figure. Basically, there's no way to know which will be better until >>> you try them both. Service levels vary so much depending on the area >>> and infrastructure in your area. Basically, while Rogers may be >>> terrific in one neighborhood, Sympatico is better in another. >>> >>> Also, service levels change as money gets spent on the infrastructure. >>> Where I live used to have TERRIBLE service from Sympatico. Rogers >>> was certainly superior. Then Bell ripped out the 30 or 40 year old >>> phone lines and laid down fiber all over the area. Now I'm with Bell >>> and it's fantastic. Haven't had a problem for months. Much faster now too. >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> As part of my work, I occasionally have to deal with Sympatico, on >> behalf of business customers. It is always a problem, as the help >> desk won't help you, if you can't click on the "Start" button. >> Problem is, the equipment that's connected to the ADSL line, is not a >> desktop computer. It has no keyboard, monitor or start button. If >> you try to escalate to someone who might know what they're talking >> about, they'll hang up on you. At least with Rogers, you can >> escalate and since the help desk is not in India, you have a good >> chance of communicating. We don't have the same problems, when the >> customer is on Primus or Telus. > > Teksavvy have helped me with Linux though officially it is > unsupported. Router or no router too. Price is right for a 5meg > profile ($29.95), and wherever you can get Sympatico in southern > Ontario, I think you can get Teksavvy. The equipment I'm working with isn't running Linux, at least not that I'm aware of. It's communications and networking equipment, often communicating over an ADSL line. With one customer, the help(?) desk was so bad that even the customer tried talking to them and she was all but pulling her hair out in frustration. We finally got the issue resolved, when the customer put pressure on the salesman to get the problem fixed. Even at that, it took over a month, and 4 site visits by me, before the system was up. All of the delay was due to Sympatico problems. As I mentioned earlier, I work with a variety of communications companies, as part of my work and none are anywhere near as bad as Sympatico. Even Bell employees I've worked with don't care much for dealing with Sympatico. One thing Sympatico has to learn, is that you don't get good help desk, by outsourcing to India. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 10:57:32 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 06:57:32 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <200705100015.10654.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <1e55af990705100357i402fd15fgb1c466acd74f4725@mail.gmail.com> On 5/9/07, JM wrote: > i need suggestion on a good ISP provider in north america (reliable and has > a god track record).. or to be exact someone that can provide internet > connectivity in a data center in one wilshire.. I'm using Sympatico at the moment, but only because it's been ok for me. I've used Rogers in the past to good effect. Both have had their share of hideous problems. Both have given me strange tech support experiences. I've used Look in the past, and they've been very good. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 13:36:52 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 09:36:52 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <46422099.2060709-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070510133652.GH8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 03:27:21PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > JM wrote: > >hi, > > > > i need suggestion on a good ISP provider in north america (reliable and > > has a god track record).. > > That's asking a bit much, isn't it? ;-) > > My ISP is Rogers and I find the service is very good. It's far better > than Sympatico. No. Rogers is an ISP. He wants an ISP provider, that is, someone who provides you ISPs. :) Besides rogers doesn't have a good track record, with all their port filtering, throttling of certain types of traffic, transfer caps after which they may simply cancel your service on you forever (most ISPs with a transfer limit simply charge more money if you go past them), no running of servers permitted, etc, etc. Hardly a good ISP track record. Now of course everyone looks good compared to sympatico, so that is hardly worth mentioning. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 13:38:47 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 09:38:47 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070510133847.GI8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 03:37:14PM -0400, Michael MacLeod wrote: > I have Sympatico and find it much more reliable than Rogers. Go > figure. Basically, there's no way to know which will be better until > you try them both. Service levels vary so much depending on the area > and infrastructure in your area. Basically, while Rogers may be > terrific in one neighborhood, Sympatico is better in another. Microsoft mail system. Enough said. Sympatico billing department might also be worth thinking about. Not a good thought. > Also, service levels change as money gets spent on the infrastructure. > Where I live used to have TERRIBLE service from Sympatico. Rogers was > certainly superior. Then Bell ripped out the 30 or 40 year old phone > lines and laid down fiber all over the area. Now I'm with Bell and > it's fantastic. Haven't had a problem for months. Much faster now too. Although that probably means you could go with a cheaper DSL ISP and get even better service for less money now that the DSL infastructure is working right. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 13:42:07 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 09:42:07 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <20070509212512.GA4131-70WplSiaoiAG/9ncUZ6upg@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> <20070509212512.GA4131@thecat.localnet> Message-ID: <20070510134207.GJ8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 05:25:12PM -0400, Allen Taylor wrote: > I'll second the Teksavvy nomination. I use them personally with a > dry-DSL setup with phone service via Primus VOIP. I have set up a couple > of clients and my wife's church on Teksavvy. Excellent tech support. > Fixed IP is nice too. Hmm, I will look at teksavvy since I am thinking of moving to DSL now that 'coming soon for 30 months' finally came. Not going to touch primus. The people I know that work there even say don't use primus. > I will reluctantly recommend Rogers in some cases but I will never > recommend Symaptico. Their tech support is very spotty - I have talked > to some very knowledgable techs' but mostly very bad tech's at Sympatico > - and I'm a very leary of their strong link to Microsoft/MSN. I have > worked on more than one machine where the Sympatico tech has talked the > user into doing something that completely cut them off and then couldn't > talk them thru connecting again (more fees for me though . . hmm). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 13:42:40 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 09:42:40 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <4642491D.4020709-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> <20070509212512.GA4131@thecat.localnet> <4642491D.4020709@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070510134240.GK8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 06:20:13PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > As these are customer systems, I'm working on, I don't get to choose the > provider. You can always give them some free advice. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 13:48:05 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 09:48:05 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <20070510134207.GJ8752-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> <20070509212512.GA4131@thecat.localnet> <20070510134207.GJ8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Lennart, Sentex www.sentex.ca can provide you with dsl. They know what they are doing. but at the end of the day they are just reselling bell. Dave On 10-May-07, at 9:42 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 05:25:12PM -0400, Allen Taylor wrote: >> I'll second the Teksavvy nomination. I use them personally with a >> dry-DSL setup with phone service via Primus VOIP. I have set up a >> couple >> of clients and my wife's church on Teksavvy. Excellent tech support. >> Fixed IP is nice too. > > Hmm, I will look at teksavvy since I am thinking of moving to DSL now > that 'coming soon for 30 months' finally came. Not going to touch > primus. The people I know that work there even say don't use primus. > >> I will reluctantly recommend Rogers in some cases but I will never >> recommend Symaptico. Their tech support is very spotty - I have >> talked >> to some very knowledgable techs' but mostly very bad tech's at >> Sympatico >> - and I'm a very leary of their strong link to Microsoft/MSN. I have >> worked on more than one machine where the Sympatico tech has >> talked the >> user into doing something that completely cut them off and then >> couldn't >> talk them thru connecting again (more fees for me though . . hmm). > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 13:58:44 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 09:58:44 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <20070510134240.GK8752-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> <20070509212512.GA4131@thecat.localnet> <4642491D.4020709@rogers.com> <20070510134240.GK8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <46432514.9060702@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 06:20:13PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> As these are customer systems, I'm working on, I don't get to choose the >> provider. >> > > You can always give them some free advice. :) > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Well, I've often mentioned Linux and OpenOffice. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 14:05:22 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 10:05:22 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> <20070509212512.GA4131@thecat.localnet> <20070510134207.GJ8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <464326A2.1000102@rogers.com> Dave Cramer wrote: > Lennart, > > Sentex www.sentex.ca can provide you with dsl. They know what they are > doing. > > but at the end of the day they are just reselling bell. > However, you don't have to deal with the Sympatico "help" desk. In all the many years I've worked in IT, I have never had any experience that rivals Sympatico for incompetence. One thing that companies have to remember is that the help desk is often a customers only contact with a company. A bad experience there goes a long way to discouraging business. Getting the cheapest help desk, by exporting to India is definitely the wrong way to go. In fact, there's a business columnist in the Toronto Star, who's been hearing a lot about the problems with Bell & Sympatico. A large portion of the complaints are about the help desk. A large U.S. company had moved their help desk back from India, because of all the harm it was doing to the company's reputation. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 14:40:38 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 10:40:38 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> <20070509212512.GA4131@thecat.localnet> <20070510134207.GJ8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070510144038.GL8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 09:48:05AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > Sentex www.sentex.ca can provide you with dsl. They know what they > are doing. > > but at the end of the day they are just reselling bell. Well most of it runs on Bell lines. Some offer dry line dsl, and some offer non-pppoe adsl, and most offer pppoe adsl. To me what I would want in DSL is: Unlimited transfer (I just hate having to worry about it) Static IP Permission to run my own web server and such to testing and playing around if I want to. Running my own email might even be an idea but I haven't ever bothered to do that. Hmm, reading sentex's usage agreement, I don't think I like it. I also see no indication of supporting static IPs. And they cost more than most others. Teksavvy does look pretty promising so far. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 14:58:50 2007 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 10:58:50 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <20070510144038.GL8752-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> <20070509212512.GA4131@thecat.localnet> <20070510134207.GJ8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070510144038.GL8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Bell's business offerings may be worth looking at. It costs more, but the contract states a 48 hour mean time to resolution, static ip, unlimited transfer, no blocked ports or throttled bandwidth, and cart blanche to run whatever you want. I live in a flat with two other room mates, so we split a monthly bill for approx $132 for a dry-loop optimax connection. There were some difficulties setting it up, because I was migrating from a residential dry-loop connection, so there was some confusion about the phone number because they have to install a business connection on a business phone line, not a residential one. Since that was cleared up though, it's been smooth sailing. On 5/10/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 09:48:05AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > > Sentex www.sentex.ca can provide you with dsl. They know what they > > are doing. > > > > but at the end of the day they are just reselling bell. > > Well most of it runs on Bell lines. Some offer dry line dsl, and some > offer non-pppoe adsl, and most offer pppoe adsl. > > To me what I would want in DSL is: > Unlimited transfer (I just hate having to worry about it) > Static IP > Permission to run my own web server and such to testing and playing > around if I want to. Running my own email might even be an idea but I > haven't ever bothered to do that. > > Hmm, reading sentex's usage agreement, I don't think I like it. I also > see no indication of supporting static IPs. And they cost more than > most others. > > Teksavvy does look pretty promising so far. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 15:23:38 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 11:23:38 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> <20070509212512.GA4131@thecat.localnet> <20070510134207.GJ8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070510144038.GL8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070510152338.GM8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 10:58:50AM -0400, Michael MacLeod wrote: > Bell's business offerings may be worth looking at. It costs more, but > the contract states a 48 hour mean time to resolution, static ip, > unlimited transfer, no blocked ports or throttled bandwidth, and cart > blanche to run whatever you want. 48 hours _mean_? So half their problems take over 48 hours to fix? I haven't dealt with a bell business adsl for a few years, but it had some pretty restrictive bandwidth limits when I did a few years ago, and was very very expensive. I guess things change. > I live in a flat with two other room mates, so we split a monthly bill > for approx $132 for a dry-loop optimax connection. There were some > difficulties setting it up, because I was migrating from a residential > dry-loop connection, so there was some confusion about the phone > number because they have to install a business connection on a > business phone line, not a residential one. Since that was cleared up > though, it's been smooth sailing. I just want an ISP that isn't stupidly anal. Too bad I can't go back to istop since they no longer sign up customers (they serve their old customers and do hosting). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 16:00:25 2007 From: tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 12:00:25 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <20070510134207.GJ8752-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> <20070509212512.GA4131@thecat.localnet> <20070510134207.GJ8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070510160024.GA4796@thecat.localnet> On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 09:42:07AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 05:25:12PM -0400, Allen Taylor wrote: > > I'll second the Teksavvy nomination. I use them personally with a > > dry-DSL setup with phone service via Primus VOIP. I have set up a couple > > of clients and my wife's church on Teksavvy. Excellent tech support. > > Fixed IP is nice too. > > Hmm, I will look at teksavvy since I am thinking of moving to DSL now > that 'coming soon for 30 months' finally came. Not going to touch > primus. The people I know that work there even say don't use primus. I saw a mention of our old friend Istop. My feeling is that Teksavvy is Istop without the politics - although Ralph Doncaster was entertaining for a while. :-) Teksavvy: Fixed ip (or 2 or 6), choice of 100GB cap on PEER1 or unlimmited on Cogent (but 5ms to 15ms more latency), servers allowed, no blocks or throttling that I'm aware of, Dry-DSL, good price, good support - I'm happy! Primus - We have a business relationship with them so I'm not unbiased but I've had no significnat problems with them so far. Been with them for long distance for several years, was on their ISP service until the move the Teksavvy (wanted the fixed IP and Dry-DSL) and been on their VOIP since August. They were quite helpful in helping us orchestrate the concurrent move of our home phone number from Bell with our move to a new home with our move to Dry-DSL/VOIP. Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 16:10:43 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 12:10:43 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <20070510160024.GA4796-70WplSiaoiAG/9ncUZ6upg@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> <20070509212512.GA4131@thecat.localnet> <20070510134207.GJ8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070510160024.GA4796@thecat.localnet> Message-ID: <20070510161043.GN8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 12:00:25PM -0400, Allen Taylor wrote: > I saw a mention of our old friend Istop. My feeling is that Teksavvy is > Istop without the politics - although Ralph Doncaster was entertaining > for a while. :-) > > Teksavvy: Fixed ip (or 2 or 6), choice of 100GB cap on PEER1 or > unlimmited on Cogent (but 5ms to 15ms more latency), servers allowed, no > blocks or throttling that I'm aware of, Dry-DSL, good price, good > support - I'm happy! The cogent vs peer1 is an interesting thing. Which do you use? Is peer1 that much faster and more reliable and more expensive for them to use? > Primus - We have a business relationship with them so I'm not unbiased > but I've had no significnat problems with them so far. Been with them > for long distance for several years, was on their ISP service until the > move the Teksavvy (wanted the fixed IP and Dry-DSL) and been on their > VOIP since August. They were quite helpful in helping us orchestrate > the concurrent move of our home phone number from Bell with our move to > a new home with our move to Dry-DSL/VOIP. Well hopefully it keeps working for you. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 16:14:36 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 12:14:36 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <20070510144038.GL8752-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> <20070509212512.GA4131@thecat.localnet> <20070510134207.GJ8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070510144038.GL8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070510121436.b9a662ac.gstrom@teksavvy.com> I've been with Teksavvy since February 1st, and it's been good. No down time and the tech support has been good. The only thing that hasn't been as good as I had with EOL is usenet; Teksavvy's usenet is far more limited. Other than that, though, I have no complaints. -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 16:33:27 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 12:33:27 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <20070510121436.b9a662ac.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> <20070509212512.GA4131@thecat.localnet> <20070510134207.GJ8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070510144038.GL8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070510121436.b9a662ac.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20070510163327.GO8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 12:14:36PM -0400, Glen Strom wrote: > I've been with Teksavvy since February 1st, and it's been good. No down > time and the tech support has been good. The only thing that hasn't > been as good as I had with EOL is usenet; Teksavvy's usenet is far > more limited. Other than that, though, I have no complaints. I haven't used usenet for a long time. If I want to read it, I use groups.google.com, and I never post to it. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 16:34:21 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 12:34:21 -0400 Subject: External drive cases Message-ID: <4643498D.2060100@rogers.com> A while ago, someone on this list was looking for an external USB 2 drive case. I see factorydirect.ca has some Adaptec cases on sale now. The 2.5" version is $15 and 3.5 $20. I have a 3.5" one that works well and currently holds a 160 GB drive. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 16:52:42 2007 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 12:52:42 -0400 Subject: Fedora on 64MB RAM In-Reply-To: <768631270705061147l5e234e8au4024f9c3a2c3fb69-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <768631270705050942x542267b7qd2bc13bdaf6a5ed9@mail.gmail.com> <20070506103138.8397795d.hgibson@eol.ca> <768631270705061147l5e234e8au4024f9c3a2c3fb69@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880705100952l5eee9030m7f9e240cc8cb369c@mail.gmail.com> I think Debian ... is the best way to go.. Slackware should work too unless they've... done something drastic since i last used it (which was a while ago) I used xfce4 with 64 mbs of ram, I think. On 5/6/07, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Actually, > i was using asterisknow and i wanted to switch the platform. So i tried to > install FC6 but the installer complainst that 64MB of RAM is too little and > then exits.. > > I am trying debian right now, it seems a bit better but the package > management takes a bit of getting used to.. > > > > > On 5/6/07, Howard Gibson wrote: > > On Sat, 5 May 2007 12:42:45 -0400 > > "Ansar Mohammed" wrote: > > > > > Does anyone know how to install fedora on a machine with 64MB of RAM? > > > > > > > Ansar, > > > > I do not see any problems installing it. Are you planning to run > X-windows on this thing? I just upgraded my PII/350 from 256Mb to 636Mb, > and the speed improvement is noticeable, especially when I use my printer. > I am running FC6, with Xen disabled. > > > > I ran Slackware_3 quite happily on a machine with 20Mb RAM, but they > keep adding bells and whistles. I have retired my P233 laptop with Red Hat > 7.3 and 64Mb RAM because it was too slow running Open Office. > > > > If you run a small window manager like FVWM2 and use a text editor to > write your formatted documents (HTML and LaTeX), you have a chance. I do > not think web browsing will work. > > > > Failing all that, Tom Jones by Henry Fielding is an excellent read and > probably a major influence on Douglas Adams when he wrote Hitchhiker's Guide > to the Galaxy. My copy is 884 pages long, but you will have time. :) > > > > -- > > Howard Gibson > > hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org > > howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org > > http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 17:00:45 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 13:00:45 -0400 Subject: [TLUG][FIXED]: Dirty Hydro? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0705101000x7730cba6p9bef04b816dd0bda@mail.gmail.com> Well it wasn't fun, but I'm finally up and running. Turned out that there were a few issues; the old machines' power supply was flaky and the thermal compound on the machine I built didn't set right. Add the fluctuations in the hydro and well... lotsa fun. Now everything is working (no more crashes - I can even read my email. WoOt!), but there is one small annoyance. The new machine has an ECS P4M900T-M mobo with onboard audio. With Ubuntu (6.10 Edgy Eft) the maximum volume is about half what it is under Windows. Anyway, thanks again for the thoughts and suggestions! -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 17:34:59 2007 From: tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 13:34:59 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <20070510161043.GN8752-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> <20070509212512.GA4131@thecat.localnet> <20070510134207.GJ8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070510160024.GA4796@thecat.localnet> <20070510161043.GN8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070510173459.GA4893@thecat.localnet> On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 12:10:43PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 12:00:25PM -0400, Allen Taylor wrote: > > I saw a mention of our old friend Istop. My feeling is that Teksavvy is > > Istop without the politics - although Ralph Doncaster was entertaining > > for a while. :-) > > > > Teksavvy: Fixed ip (or 2 or 6), choice of 100GB cap on PEER1 or > > unlimmited on Cogent (but 5ms to 15ms more latency), servers allowed, no > > blocks or throttling that I'm aware of, Dry-DSL, good price, good > > support - I'm happy! > > The cogent vs peer1 is an interesting thing. Which do you use? Is > peer1 that much faster and more reliable and more expensive for them to > use? My monthly usage is well less than 10GB so I'm with Peer1 although with my usage I don't think a few extra ms latency would make much difference. From their web site: "This service is intended as a two-tiered option where you can go DSL Unlimited over Cogent (5ms to 15ms more latency) or if you prefer a premium option, DSL over Peer1 (premium routing). The difference between Unlimited and Premium Capped service is in its use of internet onramps. Call for further details!" Not quite sure what that means but I've found them to be good people to talk to. Give it a shot at 1-877-779-1575 and let us know! Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 17:39:34 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 13:39:34 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <20070510161043.GN8752-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> <20070509212512.GA4131@thecat.localnet> <20070510134207.GJ8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070510160024.GA4796@thecat.localnet> <20070510161043.GN8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <464358D6.2050401@utoronto.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 12:00:25PM -0400, Allen Taylor wrote: >> I saw a mention of our old friend Istop. My feeling is that Teksavvy is >> Istop without the politics - although Ralph Doncaster was entertaining >> for a while. :-) >> >> Teksavvy: Fixed ip (or 2 or 6), choice of 100GB cap on PEER1 or >> unlimmited on Cogent (but 5ms to 15ms more latency), servers allowed, no >> blocks or throttling that I'm aware of, Dry-DSL, good price, good >> support - I'm happy! > > The cogent vs peer1 is an interesting thing. Which do you use? Is > peer1 that much faster and more reliable and more expensive for them to > use? I switched to the peer1 option, the latencies dropped by about ~10ms on average. Nothing spectacular but it's nice. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 18:21:18 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 14:21:18 -0400 Subject: [TLUG][FIXED]: Dirty Hydro? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705101000x7730cba6p9bef04b816dd0bda-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705101000x7730cba6p9bef04b816dd0bda@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/10/07, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > Well it wasn't fun, but I'm finally up and running. Turned out that > there were a few issues; the old machines' power supply was flaky and > the thermal compound on the machine I built didn't set right. Add the > fluctuations in the hydro and well... lotsa fun. Hey Scott, Welcome back. Good to hear from you again. Now everything is working (no more crashes - I can even read my email. > WoOt!), but there is one small annoyance. The new machine has an ECS > P4M900T-M mobo with onboard audio. With Ubuntu (6.10 Edgy Eft) the > maximum volume is about half what it is under Windows. Um .. you've checked aumix? -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 19:45:02 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 19:45:02 +0000 Subject: External drive cases In-Reply-To: <4643498D.2060100-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4643498D.2060100@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 5/10/07, James Knott wrote: > A while ago, someone on this list was looking for an external USB 2 > drive case. I see factorydirect.ca has some Adaptec cases on sale now. > The 2.5" version is $15 and 3.5 $20. I have a 3.5" one that works well > and currently holds a 160 GB drive. I find I favor the Vantec NexStar enclosures; they're a little bit more (tends to be in the $30-$40 range) but tend to have extra rubber fittings and such to make them a bit more robust than usual. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 19:54:16 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 15:54:16 -0400 Subject: External drive cases In-Reply-To: References: <4643498D.2060100@rogers.com> Message-ID: <46437868.3060901@utoronto.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 5/10/07, James Knott wrote: >> A while ago, someone on this list was looking for an external USB 2 >> drive case. I see factorydirect.ca has some Adaptec cases on sale now. >> The 2.5" version is $15 and 3.5 $20. I have a 3.5" one that works well >> and currently holds a 160 GB drive. > > I find I favor the Vantec NexStar enclosures; they're a little bit > more (tends to be in the $30-$40 range) but tend to have extra rubber > fittings and such to make them a bit more robust than usual. > There is always 1 wire on them that you have to bend just a little more than is comfortable when closing the faceplate, but apart from that... +1 Vantec NexStar Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 20:03:39 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 20:03:39 +0000 Subject: Revolution OS In-Reply-To: <50861.207.188.64.89.1178679364.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50861.207.188.64.89.1178679364.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On 5/9/07, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Thanks to the folks who put together tonight's TLUG meeting. > > It was interesting to see and hear some of the main characters behind Free > Software/Open Source. Interesting indeed. About the only face that wasn't familiar was Larry Augustin; I have neither met him nor Linus Torvalds. RMS sounded very much... like RMS... Anyone that agrees with him most of the time is likely a member of the "personality cult"... I haven't ever felt that I had a conversation with him; his words get considered so important that he evidently feels the need to self-censor to a degree that, well, it doesn't feel like "conversation." I thought there was a fair bit of cautionary note to the presentation. It presented quite the "bubble" of activity in 2000 and 2001, where fortunes were both made and lost. In effect, that was the time of the biggest and wildest and wackiest Linux-related tradeshows. What we see now is a pale, pale shade of what was back then. There definitely is a note of "the more exciting it gets, the bigger the fall" in it. That is wise for us to be careful of... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 20:10:15 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 16:10:15 -0400 Subject: External drive cases In-Reply-To: References: <4643498D.2060100@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070510201015.GP8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 07:45:02PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: > I find I favor the Vantec NexStar enclosures; they're a little bit > more (tends to be in the $30-$40 range) but tend to have extra rubber > fittings and such to make them a bit more robust than usual. I like that one too. Seems very reliable and just works. Solid little thing too. I have only used the 2.5" one so far but expect the 3.5" to be as good. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 20:11:46 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 16:11:46 -0400 Subject: [TLUG][FIXED]: Dirty Hydro? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705101000x7730cba6p9bef04b816dd0bda-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705101000x7730cba6p9bef04b816dd0bda@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070510201146.GQ8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 01:00:45PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Well it wasn't fun, but I'm finally up and running. Turned out that > there were a few issues; the old machines' power supply was flaky and > the thermal compound on the machine I built didn't set right. Add the > fluctuations in the hydro and well... lotsa fun. > > Now everything is working (no more crashes - I can even read my email. > WoOt!), but there is one small annoyance. The new machine has an ECS > P4M900T-M mobo with onboard audio. With Ubuntu (6.10 Edgy Eft) the > maximum volume is about half what it is under Windows. > > Anyway, thanks again for the thoughts and suggestions! Any treble/bass settings? Seperate settings for master/pcm and such? Could just have missed something after all. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 20:12:14 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 16:12:14 -0400 Subject: [TLUG][FIXED]: Dirty Hydro? In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705101000x7730cba6p9bef04b816dd0bda@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070510201214.GR8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 02:21:18PM -0400, Alex Beamish wrote: > Um .. you've checked aumix? Better to use alsamixer. It actually has all the settings. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 17:16:00 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 13:16:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [TLUG][FIXED]: Dirty Hydro? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705101000x7730cba6p9bef04b816dd0bda-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705011635s2559ea39y80b07f3c4e9b6176@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705101000x7730cba6p9bef04b816dd0bda@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 May 2007, Scott Elcomb wrote: > ... but there is one small annoyance. The new machine has an ECS > P4M900T-M mobo with onboard audio. With Ubuntu (6.10 Edgy Eft) the > maximum volume is about half what it is under Windows. Have you set both Vol and PCM? Try, e.g.: aumix -v90 -w90 ## set both to 90% -- Chris F.A. Johnson ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 16:48:58 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 12:48:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <20070510121436.b9a662ac.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> <20070509212512.GA4131@thecat.localnet> <20070510134207.GJ8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070510144038.GL8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070510121436.b9a662ac.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 May 2007, Glen Strom wrote: > I've been with Teksavvy since February 1st, and it's been good. > No down time and the tech support has been good. I've been on Teksavvy for 17 months; there was a little downtime a year or so ago, but it's been good otherwise. Support has been excellent. The only time they couldn't help was at the very beginning. I was able to connect directly with my Mandriva system, but not with the router. The support tech had no idea about configuring the router with anything but the web interface (which I didn't know it had, and didn't know the login name). I always used telnet, and I figured it out by myself. > The only thing that hasn't been as good as I had with EOL is usenet; > Teksavvy's usenet is far more limited. Other than that, though, I > have no complaints. For Usenet, I installed leafnode, and have it draw from the Teksavvy service as well as a few free servers. -- Chris F.A. Johnson ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 22:10:30 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 00:10:30 +0200 Subject: Fedora on 64MB RAM In-Reply-To: <20070505190340.GB10198-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <768631270705050942x542267b7qd2bc13bdaf6a5ed9@mail.gmail.com> <20070505190340.GB10198@md5.ca> Message-ID: <46439856.8010807@visible-assets.com> Almost every linux distro includes boot-cd options like 'no-cache' and 'nographics' or something along those lines. Usually the boot cd will give you a message saying 'Press F2 for more options' or something like that. I once had redhat (7.0 i think) running on a machine with 48MB of ram and managed to get a very small install on a 1G hard disk. After that i chose slackware, and then gentoo. Chris Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > Ansar Mohammed(ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org)@Sat, May 05, 2007 at 12:42:45PM -0400: >> Does anyone know how to install fedora on a machine with 64MB of RAM? > > Usually installation processes may take more then 64MB of ram. One way > would to install it with more ram, trim the resources and down to where > mostly 64MB will be used and make a diskimage it for replication. > hth, > Pavel > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 22:12:18 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 18:12:18 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46422099.2060709@rogers.com> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> <20070509212512.GA4131@thecat.localnet> <20070510134207.GJ8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070510144038.GL8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070510121436.b9a662ac.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <464398C2.7030008@utoronto.ca> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Thu, 10 May 2007, Glen Strom wrote: > >> I've been with Teksavvy since February 1st, and it's been good. >> No down time and the tech support has been good. > > I've been on Teksavvy for 17 months; there was a little downtime > a year or so ago, but it's been good otherwise. > > Support has been excellent. The only time they couldn't help was > at the very beginning. I was able to connect directly with my > Mandriva system, but not with the router. The support tech had no > idea about configuring the router with anything but the web > interface (which I didn't know it had, and didn't know the login > name). I always used telnet, and I figured it out by myself. > >> The only thing that hasn't been as good as I had with EOL is usenet; >> Teksavvy's usenet is far more limited. Other than that, though, I >> have no complaints. > > For Usenet, I installed leafnode, and have it draw from the > Teksavvy service as well as a few free servers. > I've never managed to login to news2.teksavvy.com using any client. With our without password. I suppose I should submit a ticket, but I don't use newsgroups for anything. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 22:19:17 2007 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 18:19:17 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <464398C2.7030008-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <46423449.3090403@rogers.com> <4642358E.2080004@utoronto.ca> <20070509212512.GA4131@thecat.localnet> <20070510134207.GJ8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070510144038.GL8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070510121436.b9a662ac.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <464398C2.7030008@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880705101519t20295ccdv29f7992bbea0b7da@mail.gmail.com> Hey all.. What usenet groups does teksavvy.com have is it free for there clients? is there an extra cost.. whats there retention.. maybe i'll join :) On 5/10/07, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > On Thu, 10 May 2007, Glen Strom wrote: > > > >> I've been with Teksavvy since February 1st, and it's been good. > >> No down time and the tech support has been good. > > > > I've been on Teksavvy for 17 months; there was a little downtime > > a year or so ago, but it's been good otherwise. > > > > Support has been excellent. The only time they couldn't help was > > at the very beginning. I was able to connect directly with my > > Mandriva system, but not with the router. The support tech had no > > idea about configuring the router with anything but the web > > interface (which I didn't know it had, and didn't know the login > > name). I always used telnet, and I figured it out by myself. > > > >> The only thing that hasn't been as good as I had with EOL is usenet; > >> Teksavvy's usenet is far more limited. Other than that, though, I > >> have no complaints. > > > > For Usenet, I installed leafnode, and have it draw from the > > Teksavvy service as well as a few free servers. > > > I've never managed to login to news2.teksavvy.com using any client. With > our without password. I suppose I should submit a ticket, but I don't > use newsgroups for anything. > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 22:30:08 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 00:30:08 +0200 Subject: Revolution OS In-Reply-To: References: <50861.207.188.64.89.1178679364.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <46439CF0.3080608@visible-assets.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > RMS sounded very much... like RMS... Anyone that agrees with him > most of the time is likely a member of the "personality cult"... I > haven't ever felt that I had a conversation with him; his words get > considered so important that he evidently feels the need to > self-censor to a degree that, well, it doesn't feel like > "conversation." You have to chuckle slightly at the Han Solo / Rebel Alliance joke at least -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 22:49:00 2007 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 17:49:00 -0500 Subject: no color in bash & v In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2007/5/3, Martin Duclos wrote: > Hi, > I have this nagging problem... I used to have color in bash and vi (on an > old retired rh7.3 box). I managed to find out that export > COLORS=/etc/dirCOLOR.xterm and I get colors in the shell. The question is, > where is this supposed to be set? Also found dircolor which I assume to be > an internal bash command... I did some googling and found various hints to > set colors for specific commands like ls. What I'm trying to accomplish is > to have colors in bash setup by default for all users and also colors when I > use vi to edit various programming languages like perl and java. Most distros ship with vim instead of vi. Vim has good classic vi emulation (enabled when you run the command "vi" from your shell) but the vi emulation has no color. Instead of typing "vi", type "vim". Then you will have color. Cheers, Jason -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I provide software development and training services to clients worldwide. Contact me for a FREE consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. +1 (416) 781-5938 / Email: info-1hdvTAswZAHQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org / MSN: jasonspiro-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri May 11 01:13:54 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 21:13:54 -0400 Subject: OT: Internet connectivity In-Reply-To: <20070510161043.GN8752-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200705100015.10654.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20070510160024.GA4796@thecat.localnet> <20070510161043.GN8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200705102113.54979.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Thursday 10 May 2007 12:10:43 Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 12:00:25PM -0400, Allen Taylor wrote: > > I saw a mention of our old friend Istop. My feeling is that Teksavvy is > > Istop without the politics - although Ralph Doncaster was entertaining > > for a while. :-) > > > > Teksavvy: Fixed ip (or 2 or 6), choice of 100GB cap on PEER1 or > > unlimmited on Cogent (but 5ms to 15ms more latency), servers allowed, no > > blocks or throttling that I'm aware of, Dry-DSL, good price, good > > support - I'm happy! > > The cogent vs peer1 is an interesting thing. Which do you use? Is > peer1 that much faster and more reliable and more expensive for them to > use? Interesting, I'd never heard of this. My teksavvy DSL is so boring and functional that I haven't thought about the network in eons. I did recently noticed a speed increase (downloads now max out at around 500K though not always that fast). Seems like I have quite a nice network ... here's my traceroute to google.ca: traceroute to www.l.google.com (72.14.205.147), 30 hops max, 52 byte packets 1 torridon (10.142.254.254) 0.303 ms 0.138 ms 0.125 ms 2 206.248.154.102 (206.248.154.102) 9.024 ms 9.677 ms 9.052 ms 3 65.39.134.1 (65.39.134.1) 8.857 ms * * 4 198.32.245.6 (198.32.245.6) 9.151 ms 9.854 ms 9.989 ms 5 66.249.94.90 (66.249.94.90) 9.128 ms 9.928 ms 9.195 ms 6 72.14.236.138 (72.14.236.138) 9.346 ms 72.14.232.62 (72.14.232.62) 10.599 ms 72.14.232.66 (72.14.232.66) 10.744 ms 7 qb-in-f147.google.com (72.14.205.147) 10.839 ms 9.812 ms 9.766 ms ping to CBC: PING a1849.gc.akamai.net (209.123.81.89) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 209.123.81.89: icmp_seq=1 ttl=60 time=10.2 ms 64 bytes from 209.123.81.89: icmp_seq=2 ttl=60 time=10.3 ms 64 bytes from 209.123.81.89: icmp_seq=3 ttl=60 time=9.52 ms 64 bytes from 209.123.81.89: icmp_seq=4 ttl=60 time=10.1 ms 64 bytes from 209.123.81.89: icmp_seq=5 ttl=60 time=9.68 ms With all taxes I pay $36.33 per month, which includes a static IP. I've been with them since iStop, no noteworthy outages that I can recall. -- Fraser Campbell Georgetown, Ontario, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 11 13:58:19 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 09:58:19 -0400 Subject: Linux Wi-Fi: Supercharge a Buffalo Message-ID: <4644767B.30803@utoronto.ca> Installing DD-WRT on a Buffalo WHR-G54S. http://www.enterprisenetworkingplanet.com/nethub/article.php/3676506 Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri May 11 14:10:44 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 10:10:44 -0400 Subject: gnu make help Message-ID: <20070511141044.GB24886@watson-wilson.ca> Consider this code: # makefile # This file will build a boot strap client. SHELL=/bin/bash AWK=/bin/awk SVN=/usr/local/bin/svn # Define public key based on varible input ifeq "${NETWORK}" "172_16_0_0" PUBLICKEY=root-172.16.48.66.pub endif ifeq "${NETWORK}" "192_168_0_0" PUBLICKEY=root-192.168.81.43.pub endif ifeq "${NETWORK}" "10_208_66_0" PUBLICKEY=root-10.208.66.59.pub NETWORK=172_16_0_0 endif WORKDIR=/var/cfengine BINDIR=/usr/local/sbin TARFILES=makefile \ bin/${VERSION}/cfagent\ bin/${VERSION}/cfkey \ bin/${VERSION}/cfexecd \ inputs/${NETWORK}/update.conf \ init.d/cfexecd.sv \ ppkeys/${PUBLICKEY} \ REVISION.txt Now consider this make command and the error: [nhwatson at tor-lx-config config]$ make client VERSION=redhat_as_4 NETWORK=10_208_66_0 make: *** No rule to make target `inputs/10_208_66_0/update.conf', needed by `client'. Stop. Why is the network variable not reassigned to '172_16_0_0'? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 7 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 11 14:17:54 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 10:17:54 -0400 Subject: Linux Wi-Fi: Supercharge a Buffalo In-Reply-To: <4644767B.30803-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4644767B.30803@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <46447B12.6050002@utoronto.ca> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Installing DD-WRT on a Buffalo WHR-G54S. > > http://www.enterprisenetworkingplanet.com/nethub/article.php/3676506 Check the readme with the firmware, but you can avoid tftp problems using generic mini firmwares and flashing via the initial Linksys GUI. Once flashed, you can use the DD-WRT GUI to put whichever version you like on, without the fuss of timing things properly with tftp. Once instance in which the GUI wins :) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 11 14:24:01 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 10:24:01 -0400 Subject: gnu make help In-Reply-To: <20070511141044.GB24886-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070511141044.GB24886@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070511142401.GS8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 10:10:44AM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > Consider this code: > > # makefile > > # This file will build a boot strap client. > > SHELL=/bin/bash > AWK=/bin/awk > SVN=/usr/local/bin/svn > > # Define public key based on varible input > ifeq "${NETWORK}" "172_16_0_0" > PUBLICKEY=root-172.16.48.66.pub > endif > ifeq "${NETWORK}" "192_168_0_0" > PUBLICKEY=root-192.168.81.43.pub > endif > ifeq "${NETWORK}" "10_208_66_0" > PUBLICKEY=root-10.208.66.59.pub > NETWORK=172_16_0_0 > endif > > WORKDIR=/var/cfengine > BINDIR=/usr/local/sbin > TARFILES=makefile \ > bin/${VERSION}/cfagent\ > bin/${VERSION}/cfkey \ > bin/${VERSION}/cfexecd \ > inputs/${NETWORK}/update.conf \ > init.d/cfexecd.sv \ > ppkeys/${PUBLICKEY} \ > REVISION.txt > > Now consider this make command and the error: > > [nhwatson at tor-lx-config config]$ make client VERSION=redhat_as_4 > NETWORK=10_208_66_0 > make: *** No rule to make target `inputs/10_208_66_0/update.conf', needed > by `client'. Stop. > > Why is the network variable not reassigned to '172_16_0_0'? I see nothing in that makefile that is a target, ie: client: dependancies commands to run stuff to do Really doens't look much like a makefile without that. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri May 11 14:31:28 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 10:31:28 -0400 Subject: gnu make help In-Reply-To: <20070511142401.GS8752-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070511141044.GB24886@watson-wilson.ca> <20070511142401.GS8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070511143128.GA26852@watson-wilson.ca> On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 10:24:01AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >I see nothing in that makefile that is a target, ie: > >client: dependancies > commands to run > stuff to do > > >Really doens't look much like a makefile without that. I had snipped the rest. Here is the whole thing: # makefile # This file will build a boot strap client. SHELL=/bin/bash AWK=/bin/awk SVN=/usr/local/bin/svn # Define public key based on varible input ifeq "${NETWORK}" "172_16_0_0" PUBLICKEY=root-172.16.48.66.pub endif ifeq "${NETWORK}" "192_168_0_0" PUBLICKEY=root-192.168.81.43.pub endif ifeq "${NETWORK}" "10_208_66_0" PUBLICKEY=root-10.208.66.59.pub NETWORK=172_16_0_0 endif WORKDIR=/var/cfengine BINDIR=/usr/local/sbin TARFILES=makefile \ bin/${VERSION}/cfagent\ bin/${VERSION}/cfkey \ bin/${VERSION}/cfexecd \ inputs/${NETWORK}/update.conf \ init.d/cfexecd.sv \ ppkeys/${PUBLICKEY} \ REVISION.txt INSTALLFILES= \ ${BINDIR}/cfagent \ ${BINDIR}/cfkey \ ${BINDIR}/cfexecd \ ${WORKDIR}/inputs/update.conf \ ${WORKDIR}/bin \ /etc/rc.d/init.d/cfexecd.sv \ /etc/rc.d/rc3.d/S51cfexecd.sv \ # Vpath works like PATH. The inputs directory will be searched for any .conf # files that are referenced. vpath %.conf inputs vpath %.sv init.d .PHONY: help help: make --print-data-base --question | \ ${AWK} '/^[^.%][-A-Za-z0-9]*:/ \ { print substr($$1, 1, length($$1)-1) }' | \ sort # USAGE: # make client VERSION=[redhat_as_3 | redhat_as_4] NETWORK=[172_16_0_0 | 192_168_0_0 | 10_208_66_0] # make install # -- makes client tarball to be copied to new client. # # Copy tarball to client system. # make install: install tarball on client. # Make client tarball to be copied to client. .PHONY: client # Tarball file that will be copied to the client. client: ${TARFILES} tar -cvzpf cfengine-bs-v$(shell cat REVISION.txt).tgz $^ rm REVISION.txt # server public key ${PUBLICKEY}: cp /var/cfengine/ppkeys/${PUBLICKEY} ${PUBLICKEY} REVISION.txt: ${SVN} info | ${AWK} '/^Revision.*/ { print $$2 }' > $@ # Install client .PHONY: install install: ${INSTALLFILES} ln -s ${BINDIR}/cfexecd ${WORKDIR}/bin/cfexecd ln -s ${BINDIR}/cfagent ${WORKDIR}/bin/cfagent ${BINDIR}/cfkey cp ppkeys/* ${WORKDIR}/ppkeys chown root:root ${WORKDIR}/ppkeys/* chmod 600 ${WORKDIR}/ppkeys/* service cfexecd.sv start # Run cfagent to receive first updates. ${BINDIR}/cfagent: cp bin/redhat_as_?/cfagent $@ chown root:root $@ chmod 755 $@ ${BINDIR}/cfkey: cp bin/redhat_as_?/cfkey $@ chown root:root $@ chmod 755 $@ ${BINDIR}/cfexecd: cp bin/redhat_as_?/cfexecd $@ chown root:root $@ chmod 755 $@ ${WORKDIR}/inputs/update.conf: ${WORKDIR}/inputs cp inputs/*_0_0/update.conf $@ chown root:root $@ chmod 644 $@ ${WORKDIR}/ppkeys: ${WORKDIR} mkdir ${WORKDIR}/ppkeys chown root:root $@ chmod 700 $@ ${WORKDIR}/bin: ${WORKDIR} mkdir ${WORKDIR}/bin chown root:root $@ chmod 700 $@ ${WORKDIR}/inputs: ${WORKDIR} mkdir ${WORKDIR}/inputs chown root:root $@ chmod 700 $@ ${WORKDIR}: mkdir $@ chown root:root $@ chmod 755 $@ /etc/rc.d/init.d/cfexecd.sv: ${BINDIR}/cfexecd cp init.d/cfexecd.sv /etc/rc.d/init.d chmod 755 $@ /etc/rc.d/rc3.d/S51cfexecd.sv: /etc/rc.d/init.d/cfexecd.sv ln -s $< $@ -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 7 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Fri May 11 15:05:14 2007 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:05:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: gnu make help In-Reply-To: <20070511141044.GB24886-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070511141044.GB24886@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: A variable set on the command line cannot be changed by a line in the makefile unless you use the "override" directive. Try this: ifeq "${NETWORK}" "10_208_66_0" PUBLICKEY=root-10.208.66.59.pub override NETWORK=172_16_0_0 endif For reference: http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/html_node/Override-Directive.html HTH JV On Fri, 11 May 2007, Neil Watson wrote: > Consider this code: > > # makefile > > # This file will build a boot strap client. > SHELL=/bin/bash > AWK=/bin/awk > SVN=/usr/local/bin/svn > > # Define public key based on varible input > ifeq "${NETWORK}" "172_16_0_0" > PUBLICKEY=root-172.16.48.66.pub > endif > ifeq "${NETWORK}" "192_168_0_0" > PUBLICKEY=root-192.168.81.43.pub > endif > ifeq "${NETWORK}" "10_208_66_0" > PUBLICKEY=root-10.208.66.59.pub > NETWORK=172_16_0_0 > endif > > WORKDIR=/var/cfengine > BINDIR=/usr/local/sbin > TARFILES=makefile \ > bin/${VERSION}/cfagent\ > bin/${VERSION}/cfkey \ > bin/${VERSION}/cfexecd \ > inputs/${NETWORK}/update.conf \ > init.d/cfexecd.sv \ > ppkeys/${PUBLICKEY} \ > REVISION.txt > > Now consider this make command and the error: > > [nhwatson at tor-lx-config config]$ make client VERSION=redhat_as_4 > NETWORK=10_208_66_0 > make: *** No rule to make target `inputs/10_208_66_0/update.conf', needed by > `client'. Stop. > > Why is the network variable not reassigned to '172_16_0_0'? > > -- > Neil Watson | Debian Linux > System Administrator | Uptime 7 days > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri May 11 15:13:38 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:13:38 -0400 Subject: gnu make help In-Reply-To: References: <20070511141044.GB24886@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070511151338.GB26852@watson-wilson.ca> On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 11:05:14AM -0400, John Vetterli wrote: >A variable set on the command line cannot be changed by a line in the >makefile unless you use the "override" directive. Try this: That works. Thank you. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 7 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 11 15:58:27 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 18:58:27 +0300 Subject: /etc/krb5.keytab file format for kerberos ldap setup Message-ID: Hi, I am trying to integrate kerberos through sasl (GSSAPI) to openldap and I must be doing something wrong as its not working. I want to lay out what I have done and hope someone will flag my mistake. The setup is currently on fedora 6 with all rpms - openldap, sasl, and kerberos straight from fedora repos. I have checked that sasl-gssapi is installed and openldap is compiled with gssapi ability. I am also certain that krb5-server and clients are properly setup as kinit utility returns the expecte output, the created principle on that realm. These are the files that I have edited for sasl configuration. /etc/sasl2/slapd.conf and in this file, this is what I inserted pwcheck_method:saslauthd on /etc/sysconfig/saslauthd, I added this line MECH=kerberos5 This seems to be the only configuration I need to do for sasl. I wonder if I could have overlooked anything. For /etc/openldap/slap.conf sasl-realm EXAMPLE.ORG sasl-host kerberos.example.org rootdn "uid=my-name,cn=example.org,cn=gssapi,cn=auth" Now, little is in the logs May 11 18:06:33 kerberos.example.org krb5kdc[6907](info): TGS_REQ (7 etypes {18 17 16 23 1 3 2}) 172.30.2.179: UNKNOWN_SERVER: authtime 1178894838, my-name-eoiNrCBZWh9F7rqys1CUDA at public.gmane.org for krbtgt/COM-eoiNrCBZWh9F7rqys1CUDA at public.gmane.org, Server not found in Kerberos database There is pages and pages of this error log. Extensive googling seem to imply the error may be due to lack or improper krb5.keytab file. I do have on though and this is its format [kdc] database = { realm = EXAMPLE.ORG dbname = ldap:dc=example,dc=org mkey_file = /var/heimdal/m-key } To be frank, I don't know if this is the proper format and meekly ask if someone who have a working setup can paste it on this group. That would clarify a lot. Finally, when one is using kerberos, do one need to have every user on kerberos that exist on ldap? If only one principle is needed, should there be a corresponding user in the ldap and does the user (on ldap) nee a specific format? I would be grateful for any advice, guidance on can offer from previous experience Thanks William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Fri May 11 16:29:28 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 18:29:28 +0200 Subject: any gentoo'ers using beagle? Message-ID: <464499E8.4090402@visible-assets.com> If anyone of you are gentoo users, and you've installed beagle, I'd like to hear what your opinion is on it. For some reason, i find that my processor is going at 100% quite often after I take a small break and come back, and then I notice that beagle-build-index is running and using up all of the cpu cycles. It seems like a bit of a waste ... I have actually found very little use for it. ~/Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 12 02:35:12 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 22:35:12 -0400 Subject: External drive cases In-Reply-To: References: <4643498D.2060100@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990705111935k9580b03x46ec7803a7760571@mail.gmail.com> On 5/10/07, Christopher Browne wrote: > I find I favor the Vantec NexStar enclosures; they're a little bit > more (tends to be in the $30-$40 range) but tend to have extra rubber > fittings and such to make them a bit more robust than usual. I've got a pair of these which I adore. I had another which was cool-looking, solid metal, with rubber mounts and all.. and it stinks in comparison to my NexStars which run quiet and surprisingly cool. Mine are the slightly older IDE enclosures. I don't know if things have changed for their newer line of SATA enclosures. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun May 13 13:12:28 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 09:12:28 -0400 Subject: tweaking $TERM Message-ID: <20070513131228.GA7460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Does anyone know about the terminfo database? Specifically, how to tweak a terminfo file? The background is that I use screen a lot. When I am in screen, my $TERM variable on Debian testing is "screen-bce", and it works very well. The backspace key works, the arrows work, the Home and End keys work, the colours are right - it's all very pleasant. However, I have started to use finch, a text-based IM client (part of pdgin, formerly gaim), and it does not recognize the arrow keys if the $TERM is "screen-bce". For it to use the arrow keys, I need to set $TERM to "screen". That would be fine, except that the colours are a little off and the Delete, Home, End don't work. man terminfo is bewilderingly long, but it tells me that a terminfo file is assembled by humans and then compiled by the tic command. The problem I have is that I'd like to compare the source files of screen and screen-bce, but I don't know where they are, or if I need to get them from elsewhere. Does anyone know? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun May 13 13:31:41 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 09:31:41 -0400 Subject: tweaking $TERM In-Reply-To: <20070513131228.GA7460-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070513131228.GA7460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <4647133D.60704@telly.org> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > man terminfo is bewilderingly long, but it tells me that a terminfo file > is assembled by humans and then compiled by the tic command. The > problem I have is that I'd like to compare the source files of screen > and screen-bce, but I don't know where they are, or if I need to get > them from elsewhere. Does anyone know? Thanks. > The `infocmp` command is the de-compiler counterpart to `tic`, maybe it will do what you want. It includes options explicitly designed to help show differences and similarities between two compiled terminfo entries. The compiled files themselves are in /lib/terminfo/first-letter -- the second level of directories a throwback to the massive diversity of terminal-drawing protocols that existed in the heydays of Unix. Hope this helps. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Sun May 13 13:30:50 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 09:30:50 -0400 Subject: tweaking $TERM Message-ID: There used to be an untic command that would revert the compiled termino to text. The files are not compiled like a program, they are preparsed so disassembly is pretty good. I haven't done this in a while and I'm noit actually certain linux still uses the same format or if untic is simply a link to tic or a seperate program. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Van Ostrand Sent: 13/05/2007 09:30 AM EDT To: "tlug" Subject: Re: [TLUG]: tweaking $TERM Does anyone know about the terminfo database? Specifically, how to tweak a terminfo file? The background is that I use screen a lot. When I am in screen, my $TERM variable on Debian testing is "screen-bce", and it works very well. The backspace key works, the arrows work, the Home and End keys work, the colours are right - it's all very pleasant. However, I have started to use finch, a text-based IM client (part of pdgin, formerly gaim), and it does not recognize the arrow keys if the $TERM is "screen-bce". For it to use the arrow keys, I need to set $TERM to "screen". That would be fine, except that the colours are a little off and the Delete, Home, End don't work. man terminfo is bewilderingly long, but it tells me that a terminfo file is assembled by humans and then compiled by the tic command. The problem I have is that I'd like to compare the source files of screen and screen-bce, but I don't know where they are, or if I need to get them from elsewhere. Does anyone know? Thanks. -- yours, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun May 13 20:27:03 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 16:27:03 -0400 Subject: DVD Not Clear On Playback Message-ID: <20070513162703.69fea476.gstrom@teksavvy.com> I replaced my old cd-rom and cdrw drives with dvd-rom and dvd-writer drives. The DVD seems to play fine -- no jerky motions or dropouts and the sound is fine -- until people start to move. Then I get a ghosting effect, not unlike a Star Trek kind of "phase shift". When the people stop moving, everything is clear again. The new drives are as follows: - LG Electronics Model GSA-H22N DVD-Writer id: cdrom:0 description: IDE CD-ROM product: HL-DT-STDVD-RAM -- LG Electronics GSA-H22N physical id: 0 bus info: ide at 1.0 logical name: /dev/hdc version: 1.01 capabilities: packet atapi cdrom removable nonmagnetic dma lba iordy configuration: mode = udma2 - Lite On DVD-ROM Model SHD-16P1S id: cdrom:1 description: DVD reader product: LITE-ON DVD SHD-16P1S physical id: 1 bus info: ide at 1.1 logical name: /dev/hdd version: GS07 capabilities: packet atapi cdrom removable nonmagnetic dma lba iordy audio dvd configuration: mode = udma2 My System Specs are as follows: - Dell Dimension 4100 - Intel Pentium III (Coppermine), 930 MHz - L1 Cache 32-kb SRAM, L2 Cache 256 Kb - 512 Megs of memory - video card: ATI Rage 128 Pro with 16 MHz of memory I only have the one DVD so I can't test out another one. I suspect my video card is the problem because it really is ancient. Does this sound like a video card problem or something else? =================== I have another minor problem with these drives. They play data CD's at a much higher speed than the old drives did, and the playback is very noisy. Is there a way to tell the drives to spin at a slower speed? Thanks. -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun May 13 23:07:56 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 19:07:56 -0400 Subject: Difficult News Message-ID: <46479A4C.5000107@telly.org> Hello everyone, I have the difficult task to convey that CLUE webmaster and community activist Gerry Roderick Singleton passed away last night (May 12) in a Toronto hospital. I have few details except that he died of a heart attack, that must have been very sudden because we spoke yesterday morning and he was in his usual good spirits. Friday we attended the Toronto DrupalCamp together. Besides his involvement in CLUE, Gerry was head of the OpenOffice documentation project, involved in many forms of open source advocacy, and active in his church. I hope to have more details by tomorrow regarding funeral arrangements. He will be missed by many. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun May 13 23:27:41 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 19:27:41 -0400 Subject: DVD Not Clear On Playback In-Reply-To: <20070513162703.69fea476.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070513162703.69fea476.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <46479EED.4050300@utoronto.ca> Glen Strom wrote: > I replaced my old cd-rom and cdrw drives with dvd-rom and dvd-writer > drives. The DVD seems to play fine -- no jerky motions or dropouts and > the sound is fine -- until people start to move. Then I get a ghosting > effect, not unlike a Star Trek kind of "phase shift". When the people > stop moving, everything is clear again. > > The new drives are as follows: > - LG Electronics Model GSA-H22N DVD-Writer > id: cdrom:0 > description: IDE CD-ROM > product: HL-DT-STDVD-RAM -- LG Electronics GSA-H22N > physical id: 0 > bus info: ide at 1.0 > logical name: /dev/hdc > version: 1.01 > capabilities: packet atapi cdrom removable nonmagnetic dma lba iordy > configuration: mode = udma2 > > - Lite On DVD-ROM Model SHD-16P1S > id: cdrom:1 > description: DVD reader > product: LITE-ON DVD SHD-16P1S > physical id: 1 > bus info: ide at 1.1 > logical name: /dev/hdd > version: GS07 > capabilities: packet atapi cdrom removable nonmagnetic dma lba > iordy audio dvd configuration: > mode = udma2 > > > > My System Specs are as follows: > - Dell Dimension 4100 > - Intel Pentium III (Coppermine), 930 MHz > - L1 Cache 32-kb SRAM, L2 Cache 256 Kb > - 512 Megs of memory > - video card: ATI Rage 128 Pro with 16 MHz of memory > > I only have the one DVD so I can't test out another one. I suspect my > video card is the problem because it really is ancient. Does this sound > like a video card problem or something else? LCD screen with 16ms refresh time or greater? Sounds like ghosting to me. Most CRT monitors will ghost too. > I have another minor problem with these drives. They play data CD's at > a much higher speed than the old drives did, and the playback is very > noisy. Is there a way to tell the drives to spin at a slower speed? I think you can set drive speed with hdparm -E, not sure if that affects rotation speed though. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun May 13 23:52:12 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 19:52:12 -0400 Subject: DVD Not Clear On Playback In-Reply-To: <46479EED.4050300-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070513162703.69fea476.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <46479EED.4050300@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070513195212.ab2b5480.gstrom@teksavvy.com> On Sun, 13 May 2007 19:27:41 -0400 Jamon Camisso wrote: > LCD screen with 16ms refresh time or greater? Sounds like ghosting to > me. Most CRT monitors will ghost too. > No, a 22" CRT monitor set at 1024 x 796 at 85 Hz. > > I have another minor problem with these drives. They play data CD's > > at a much higher speed than the old drives did, and the playback is > > very noisy. Is there a way to tell the drives to spin at a slower > > speed? > > I think you can set drive speed with hdparm -E, not sure if that > affects rotation speed though. The -E option looks like it would work, although I don't know if it affects both the cdrom and dvd speeds. I only want to slow down cd's, not the dvd's. -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 01:18:36 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 21:18:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft wants royalties from FOSS Message-ID: <50546.207.188.64.89.1179105516.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> >From Slashdot today: "Microsoft told Fortune magazine that various free software products violate at least 235 patents, and it's time to expect users of this software to pay up patent licensing royalties: 'Microsoft General Counsel Brad Smith and licensing chief Horacio Gutierrez sat down with Fortune recently to map out their strategy for getting FOSS users to pay royalties. Revealing the precise figure for the first time, they state that FOSS infringes on no fewer than 235 Microsoft patents.'" Just in time to take over from the imminent collapse of SCO... -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 01:25:27 2007 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 21:25:27 -0400 Subject: Microsoft wants royalties from FOSS In-Reply-To: <50546.207.188.64.89.1179105516.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50546.207.188.64.89.1179105516.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <200705132125.27720.glayng@sympatico.ca> I predict that they will have about the same level of success in getting FOSS users to pay royalties as SCOX did. In light of the recent SCOTUS decision on obviousness, I think they're in for a sharp drop in their number of available patents to threaten users with. On Sunday 13 May 2007 21:18, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > From Slashdot today: > > "Microsoft told Fortune magazine that various free software products > violate at least 235 patents, and it's time to expect users of this > software to pay up patent licensing royalties: 'Microsoft General Counsel > Brad Smith and licensing chief Horacio Gutierrez sat down with Fortune > recently to map out their strategy for getting FOSS users to pay > royalties. Revealing the precise figure for the first time, they state > that FOSS infringes on no fewer than 235 Microsoft patents.'" > > Just in time to take over from the imminent collapse of SCO... -- there's no place like 127.0.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 01:48:18 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 21:48:18 -0400 Subject: Difficult News In-Reply-To: <46479A4C.5000107-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <46479A4C.5000107@telly.org> Message-ID: On 5/13/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I have the difficult task to convey that CLUE webmaster and community > activist Gerry Roderick Singleton passed away last night (May 12) in a > Toronto hospital. Very sorry to hear of this. I was not acquainted with him, but I know that others were; it is a sad day indeed. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 01:53:05 2007 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 21:53:05 -0400 Subject: Microsoftwants royalties from FOSS Message-ID: <4647C101.7080303@rogers.com> > > "Microsoft told Fortune magazine that various free software products > violate at least 235 patents, and it's time to expect users of this > software to pay up patent licensing royalties: Given the recent SCOTUS decision in Teleflex vs KSR, this claim by Microsoft may not have the legs to stand even the vaguest scrutiny. It's most likely just another pronouncement from the Redmond Fud Factory. http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-6180220.html John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 02:39:24 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 22:39:24 -0400 Subject: [OT] IP Problems in Windoze Message-ID: <4647939C.9129.1EF3FCA@sciguy.vex.net> Hello: I seem to be logging on to an outside network that has superceded my router. The address family of my laptop is now 164.*.*.*, when it ought to be 192.*.*.* (the address family of my router). Before anyone tells me to give security encryption a try, I would like to know if there is a way to overcome this problem first. FWIW, the network is not recognised at all in Linux. But in Windows, I can see into other people's laptops, probably in a nearby restaurant. All this, and no Internet. Other computers on my local network are working properly, though. Any help would be appreciated Regards Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 02:57:20 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 22:57:20 -0400 Subject: Microsoft wants royalties from FOSS In-Reply-To: <50546.207.188.64.89.1179105516.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50546.207.188.64.89.1179105516.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20070514025720.GA5291@waltdnes.org> On Sun, May 13, 2007 at 09:18:36PM -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote > > From Slashdot today: > > "Microsoft told Fortune magazine that various free software products > violate at least 235 patents, and it's time to expect users of this > software to pay up patent licensing royalties: 'Microsoft General Counsel > Brad Smith and licensing chief Horacio Gutierrez sat down with Fortune > recently to map out their strategy for getting FOSS users to pay > royalties. Revealing the precise figure for the first time, they state > that FOSS infringes on no fewer than 235 Microsoft patents.'" "Gutierrez refuses to identify specific patents or explain how they're being infringed, lest FOSS advocates start filing challenges to them." How's this for a response... "Filename, version, and line number please, Mr. McBride" -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 03:07:13 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 23:07:13 -0400 Subject: Microsoftwants royalties from FOSS In-Reply-To: <4647C101.7080303-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4647C101.7080303@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990705132007h1055bd6cu181026ffdabc6ef6@mail.gmail.com> On 5/13/07, John McGregor wrote: > > > > "Microsoft told Fortune magazine that various free software products > > violate at least 235 patents, and it's time to expect users of this > > software to pay up patent licensing royalties: > > > Given the recent SCOTUS decision in Teleflex vs KSR, this claim by > Microsoft may not have the legs to stand even the vaguest scrutiny. It's > most likely just another pronouncement from the Redmond Fud Factory. > http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-6180220.html My first thought is: Can I see a list of these "at least 235 patents"? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 03:12:52 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 23:12:52 -0400 Subject: Microsoft wants royalties from FOSS In-Reply-To: <20070514025720.GA5291-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <50546.207.188.64.89.1179105516.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20070514025720.GA5291@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990705132012p6a48e95bs39a77686132c8ed3@mail.gmail.com> On 5/13/07, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > "Gutierrez refuses to identify specific patents or explain how they're > being infringed, lest FOSS advocates start filing challenges to them." > > How's this for a response... > "Filename, version, and line number please, Mr. McBride" Skimming through the article and pondering a bit.. there are some references to doing such strangeness as patenting _methods_. I wonder if Microsoft gathered such patents as "using email to communicate bug reports" .. I'd bet that a lot of non-FOSS interests would also be threatened if specific patents were described. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 04:39:09 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 00:39:09 -0400 Subject: Microsoft wants royalties from FOSS In-Reply-To: <20070514025720.GA5291-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <50546.207.188.64.89.1179105516.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20070514025720.GA5291@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4647E7ED.8050201@utoronto.ca> waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > "Gutierrez refuses to identify specific patents or explain how they're > being infringed, lest FOSS advocates start filing challenges to them." > > How's this for a response... > "Filename, version, and line number please, Mr. McBride" > Oh, forget Mr. McBride, it's Senor Gutierrez now. But seriously if these were serious patents why should Gutierrez be afraid of challenges to them? Could this very admission hurt their case in a court. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 04:50:53 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 00:50:53 -0400 Subject: Microsoft wants royalties from FOSS In-Reply-To: <4647E7ED.8050201-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <50546.207.188.64.89.1179105516.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20070514025720.GA5291@waltdnes.org> <4647E7ED.8050201@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4647EAAD.4010205@telly.org> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Oh, forget Mr. McBride, it's Senor Gutierrez now. And everyone knows that Gutierrez can be defeated by Freakazoid. ("No, YOU are the weenie!"... guess you had to be there) http://www.tv.com/freakazoid!/the-wrath-of-guitierrez/episode/32974/summary.html - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 07:13:16 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 03:13:16 -0400 Subject: Microsoft wants royalties from FOSS In-Reply-To: <50546.207.188.64.89.1179105516.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50546.207.188.64.89.1179105516.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1179126796.26395.237.camel@stan64.site> >From Richard V. Westerhoff "Damages can only be awarded if proper notice of the patent was given. Notice is given by the patent owner by marking the patented product with the designation "patented," or the abbreviation "pat.," followed by the patent number. Such notice should be applied to the patented article or articles made by a patented process. If this is not possible, labels bearing the notice should be applied to the packaging for the articles. In the absence of this marking, actual notice of the specific patent must be given to an infringer, and damages can then only be obtained for infringements after notice. It is important to note that the infringer does not have to have actual knowledge of the patent in the case of marking; however, very specific notice must be given if the patent owner does not mark, or is not making articles and, therefore, has nothing to mark." Seems to me unless MS has these pat. ## on their OS box, or clearly written somewhere on their product, they need to give notice of the exact infringments, not to mention they should be doing that anyways. Since damage is calculated on commence of notice, and the 200+ infringements can probably be fixed before another release of linux and FOSS programs, its best to ignore MS, if some day they actually specify a pat.# and a infringer, then thats one thing, and the longer they wait (1-6 years) depending on country, they got nothing anyways. MS has already started the clock ticking, even in years past, so they have to start being more specific. If they keep up this generalization threat for too long, that could be considered illegal, well not in the US were MS own the legal system, nothing is illegal for them in the US, but in other countries. Worst case all FLOSS distribution moves to Europe, and MS will just set its sight on RedHat and Novell for a $$$$ grab. IBM and Oracle might have somethnig to say about that however. Bottom line is there is nothing MS can do if it doesn't get specific, and if it does get specific then we simply side step the infringements with other methods. MS is doing the right thing by the FUD (for their benefit), they will never act, its just a play to scare corp. IT from thinking twice to adopt anything other then MS products, for fear for infringement penalty. This is all playing into the MS/Novell deal, and the obvious reason Novell jumped at it. Novell isn't big enough to fight MS ... but hopefully some time soon, the IBM's and Oracle's will. I would guess most of the 200+ infringements are over 4 years old, so MS will get nothing, as they have no excuse to not have officially stated the violations and even the violators and the pat. ### involved. Damages are based on 1-3 times value of the patent infringed upon, and also taking into account how similar technology would have faired (i.e. what was net benefit of infringement). I, unlike most, am all for patents, I just believe they should be used like they were intended, and not how they have become, the tool of highly illegal extortion. -tl On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 21:18 -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >From Slashdot today: > > "Microsoft told Fortune magazine that various free software products > violate at least 235 patents, and it's time to expect users of this > software to pay up patent licensing royalties: 'Microsoft General Counsel > Brad Smith and licensing chief Horacio Gutierrez sat down with Fortune > recently to map out their strategy for getting FOSS users to pay > royalties. Revealing the precise figure for the first time, they state > that FOSS infringes on no fewer than 235 Microsoft patents.'" > > Just in time to take over from the imminent collapse of SCO... > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pallen3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 13:35:59 2007 From: pallen3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Patrick Allen) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 08:35:59 -0500 Subject: [OT] IP Problems in Windoze In-Reply-To: <4647939C.9129.1EF3FCA-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <4647939C.9129.1EF3FCA@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <464865BF.8080706@cogeco.ca> Paul King wrote: > Hello: > > I seem to be logging on to an outside network that has superceded my router. > The address family of my laptop is now 164.*.*.*, when it ought to be 192.*.*.* > (the address family of my router). I'm assuming this is the wireless NIC on you laptop? Sounds like there must be an open network nearby with a DHCP server. That's probably where you're picking up the unusual IP. From Windows "Network Connections" interface, you should be able to choose which wireless signal you want to connect to if there is more than one available. Regards, -- Patrick Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 12:55:34 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 14:55:34 +0200 Subject: GPLv2 or GPLv3 ? Message-ID: <46485C46.4070603@visible-assets.com> I think it's fairly obvious that M$ is afraid of losing out bigtime, after the 'obviousness' thing. They've seen how FOSS has now become extremely widespread. The bottom line is that they need to continue to 'lie, cheat and steal', in order to continue ensure their financial dominance. That's why they are approaching FOSS vendors with protection agreements a la Novell, etc. One thing that I'm not really clear on, and maybe some of you can comment, is how moving GNU tools to GPLv3 will affect Linux. Has Linus mentioned anything about moving to the GPLv3 ? If not, will developers using the kernels be limited to using GPLv2 tools ? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 13:00:30 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 09:00:30 -0400 Subject: Difficult News In-Reply-To: <46479A4C.5000107-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <46479A4C.5000107@telly.org> Message-ID: <46485D6E.80901@utoronto.ca> Dear Evan, I'm sorry to hear of Gerry's passing. I enjoyed his presentation on OpenOffice that he did a while back at Newtlug and the curmudgeonly attitude with which he answered some of the questions from the audience. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 13:09:41 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 09:09:41 -0400 Subject: GPLv2 or GPLv3 ? In-Reply-To: <46485C46.4070603-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <46485C46.4070603@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420705140609n7d21c6aemf4203e8d2c638c74@mail.gmail.com> On 5/14/07, Christopher Friedt wrote: > Has Linus mentioned anything about moving to the GPLv3 ? I've heard it said that the kernel can't move to v3 because there are significant parts of it for which the original copyright owner can't be contacted (either because no one knows who that is or because the person has died). My understanding is that all copyright holders of a derived work must agree together to change the license so the kernel can't be relicensed. Now, it might be possible to get agreement to switch from a large portion of the developers and rewrite the bits owned by dissenters and those that can't comment, but I don't know how much work that would be. > If not, will developers using the kernels be limited to using GPLv2 tools ? I don't think a GPLv2 kernel puts any limits on acceptable licenses for userspace, given that, for example, you can run closed applications on Linux with no legal consequences. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 14:39:31 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 10:39:31 -0400 Subject: tweaking $TERM In-Reply-To: <20070513131228.GA7460-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070513131228.GA7460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1f13df280705140739p56c6f9b6i827cf192095c5d43@mail.gmail.com> On 5/13/07, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Does anyone know about the terminfo database? Specifically, how to > tweak a terminfo file? > > man terminfo is bewilderingly long ... William, I've come up against similar problems and your comment about "man terminfo" is what stopped me - I just gave up. If you're successful and feel like sharing, please post info about what you did either to me or back to the list if others are interested. Thanks. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 15:09:46 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 11:09:46 -0400 Subject: DVD Not Clear On Playback In-Reply-To: <20070513162703.69fea476.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070513162703.69fea476.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20070514150946.GT8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, May 13, 2007 at 04:27:03PM -0400, Glen Strom wrote: > I replaced my old cd-rom and cdrw drives with dvd-rom and dvd-writer > drives. The DVD seems to play fine -- no jerky motions or dropouts and > the sound is fine -- until people start to move. Then I get a ghosting > effect, not unlike a Star Trek kind of "phase shift". When the people > stop moving, everything is clear again. > > The new drives are as follows: > - LG Electronics Model GSA-H22N DVD-Writer > id: cdrom:0 > description: IDE CD-ROM > product: HL-DT-STDVD-RAM -- LG Electronics GSA-H22N > physical id: 0 > bus info: ide at 1.0 > logical name: /dev/hdc > version: 1.01 > capabilities: packet atapi cdrom removable nonmagnetic dma lba iordy > configuration: mode = udma2 > > - Lite On DVD-ROM Model SHD-16P1S > id: cdrom:1 > description: DVD reader > product: LITE-ON DVD SHD-16P1S > physical id: 1 > bus info: ide at 1.1 > logical name: /dev/hdd > version: GS07 > capabilities: packet atapi cdrom removable nonmagnetic dma lba > iordy audio dvd configuration: > mode = udma2 > > > > My System Specs are as follows: > - Dell Dimension 4100 > - Intel Pentium III (Coppermine), 930 MHz > - L1 Cache 32-kb SRAM, L2 Cache 256 Kb > - 512 Megs of memory > - video card: ATI Rage 128 Pro with 16 MHz of memory > > I only have the one DVD so I can't test out another one. I suspect my > video card is the problem because it really is ancient. Does this sound > like a video card problem or something else? What kind of monitor do you use? Your description sounds a lot like a crappy old LCD with a much to slow transition speed. Older LCD monitors were terrible at action games and movie playback because of their slow updates. Now if these are your own home made DVDs then it may simply be that the encoder used was bad or run with the wrong options. Now it is a rather slow machine, although I have done dvd playback on slower than that reasonably well. My athlon 700 plays dvds perfectly, although I know for sure the nvidia 6600 gt drivers do xvideo acceleration so the yuv conversion and such are done in hardware, which is an otherwise huge load on the cpu so that probably helps a lot. I have no idea if tha rage 128 does that, or if the drivers support it or not. > I have another minor problem with these drives. They play data CD's at > a much higher speed than the old drives did, and the playback is very > noisy. Is there a way to tell the drives to spin at a slower speed? Depends on the drive. You can tell Plextors to slow down. Not sure about any other brands. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 15:17:08 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 11:17:08 -0400 Subject: GPLv2 or GPLv3 ? In-Reply-To: <46485C46.4070603-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <46485C46.4070603@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <20070514151708.GU8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 02:55:34PM +0200, Christopher Friedt wrote: > I think it's fairly obvious that M$ is afraid of losing out bigtime, > after the 'obviousness' thing. They've seen how FOSS has now become > extremely widespread. The bottom line is that they need to continue to > 'lie, cheat and steal', in order to continue ensure their financial > dominance. > > That's why they are approaching FOSS vendors with protection agreements > a la Novell, etc. > > One thing that I'm not really clear on, and maybe some of you can > comment, is how moving GNU tools to GPLv3 will affect Linux. It won't. Moving glibc to gplv3 might affect distributions. Of course the latest draft of gplv3 seems to be much more widely supported after they changed some of the very very controversial bits. Linus even said that the latest draft actually looked like something he would be willing to use, since it actualyl seems to fit the spirit of the gpl v2 which was something earlier drafts in some ways failed to do. > Has Linus mentioned anything about moving to the GPLv3 ? Well for the first drafts he was totally against it. That and of course the being imposible because it is licensed as gpl v2 only in most places, and the previously mentioned problem of getting every copyright owner to agree (Linus specifically chose not to want copyrights assigned to him unlike the FSF, because he wouldn't want to trust anyone else with deciding what was right, so he wouldn't expect others to trust him either, or something along those lines.) > If not, will developers using the kernels be limited to using GPLv2 tools ? Of course not. BSD uses lots of GPL tools which is fine. Any code added to the kernel has to have a GPL v2 compatible license of course since the kernel as a whole is gpl v2, although some parts are dual license BSD/GPL and some are GPL v2 or later, but everything is at least GPL v2 licensed. The tools you use don't matter. You can compile the kernel with intel's commercial compiler for linux if you want, since it has much better optimization than gcc apparently and that doesn't affect anything. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 15:20:00 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 11:20:00 -0400 Subject: [OT] IP Problems in Windoze In-Reply-To: <4647939C.9129.1EF3FCA-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <4647939C.9129.1EF3FCA@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <20070514152000.GV8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, May 13, 2007 at 10:39:24PM -0400, Paul King wrote: > Hello: > > I seem to be logging on to an outside network that has superceded my router. > The address family of my laptop is now 164.*.*.*, when it ought to be 192.*.*.* > (the address family of my router). Not 169.*.*.* ? > Before anyone tells me to give security encryption a try, I would like to know > if there is a way to overcome this problem first. > > FWIW, the network is not recognised at all in Linux. But in Windows, I can see > into other people's laptops, probably in a nearby restaurant. > > All this, and no Internet. > > Other computers on my local network are working properly, though. > > Any help would be appreciated If it was 169 then it would make sense since windows uses 169.*.*.* when dhcp fails to retrieve an address. Usually means dhcp server not responding, or link is broken or something similar. Never seen 164 though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 15:25:04 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 11:25:04 -0400 Subject: tweaking $TERM In-Reply-To: <1f13df280705140739p56c6f9b6i827cf192095c5d43-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070513131228.GA7460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1f13df280705140739p56c6f9b6i827cf192095c5d43@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46487F50.1070703@telly.org> Giles Orr wrote: > I've come up against similar problems and your comment about "man > terminfo" is what stopped me - I just gave up. If you're successful > and feel like sharing, please post info about what you did either to > me or back to the list if others are interested. Thanks. It's intimidating but, like so much of Linux and Unix before it, figuring out the secret handshake is half the battle. The tweaking a terminfo entry is not particularly difficult once the tools are known: 1) identify a definition that is close to what you want 2) decompile it using `infocmp` to a text file 3) use your favourite editor to adjust the handful of variables you want to change 4) using that same editor, give your entry a new name. if the differences from the one you started are minor, considering the name in the form of "basename-modname" (ie, "ansi-color") 5) recompile using tic. Usually this will place the compiled verion in the right place for you. 6) you can use `infocmp` to verify the differences between the base entry and your modified one. There are a lot of terminfo entries out there. Many Linux distributions only install a small subset (usually the ansi, vt100 and wyse ones) and keep the rest in another package to be optionally installed. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 16:52:45 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 12:52:45 -0400 Subject: DVD Not Clear On Playback In-Reply-To: <20070514150946.GT8752-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070513162703.69fea476.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070514150946.GT8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070514125245.f812a1be.gstrom@teksavvy.com> On Mon, 14 May 2007 11:09:46 -0400 lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: > > What kind of monitor do you use? Your description sounds a lot like a > crappy old LCD with a much to slow transition speed. Older LCD > monitors were terrible at action games and movie playback because of > their slow updates. > It's a CRT monitor, a 22" Compaq P1220 with Mitsubishi Trinitron technology. It's set at 1024 x 768 and the refresh rate is 85 Hz. > Now if these are your own home made DVDs then it may simply be that > the encoder used was bad or run with the wrong options. It's a commercially made DVD. > > Now it is a rather slow machine, although I have done dvd playback on > slower than that reasonably well. My athlon 700 plays dvds perfectly, > although I know for sure the nvidia 6600 gt drivers do xvideo > acceleration so the yuv conversion and such are done in hardware, > which is an otherwise huge load on the cpu so that probably helps a > lot. I have no idea if tha rage 128 does that, or if the drivers > support it or not. > I don't know either. Although the machine is old, the DVD playback was smooth and, other than the ghosting, showed no problems--no dropped frames and the sound was steady. That's why I wonder if the problem is the card. Perhaps upgrading to a newer video card with a Nvidia chipset would be the answer. What might be a good choice for a machine this old? -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 17:33:11 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 13:33:11 -0400 Subject: DVD Not Clear On Playback In-Reply-To: <20070514125245.f812a1be.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070513162703.69fea476.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070514150946.GT8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070514125245.f812a1be.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20070514173311.GW8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 12:52:45PM -0400, Glen Strom wrote: > I don't know either. Although the machine is old, the DVD playback was > smooth and, other than the ghosting, showed no problems--no dropped > frames and the sound was steady. That's why I wonder if the problem is > the card. Perhaps upgrading to a newer video card with a Nvidia chipset > would be the answer. What might be a good choice for a machine this old? Well depends what you expect it to do. I assume it is AGP given the CPU, so for that the FX5200 is nice (if you don't intend to do any heavy 3D ever), as is the 6200 (I would avoid the stupid turbo cache versions though). For performance 3D the 6600GT was a great card but is now nearly imposible to find. The 7900GS is very fast too although then you are starting to look at probably $300 for a video card for a very old machine, which probably makes no sense. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 18:31:38 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 14:31:38 -0400 Subject: DVD Not Clear On Playback In-Reply-To: <20070514173311.GW8752-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070513162703.69fea476.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070514150946.GT8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070514125245.f812a1be.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070514173311.GW8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070514143138.9a9f8b66.gstrom@teksavvy.com> On Mon, 14 May 2007 13:33:11 -0400 lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: > On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 12:52:45PM -0400, Glen Strom wrote: > > I don't know either. Although the machine is old, the DVD playback > > was smooth and, other than the ghosting, showed no problems--no > > dropped frames and the sound was steady. That's why I wonder if the > > problem is the card. Perhaps upgrading to a newer video card with a > > Nvidia chipset would be the answer. What might be a good choice for > > a machine this old? > > Well depends what you expect it to do. I assume it is AGP given the > CPU, so for that the FX5200 is nice (if you don't intend to do any > heavy 3D ever), as is the 6200 (I would avoid the stupid turbo cache > versions though). For performance 3D the 6600GT was a great card but > is now nearly imposible to find. The 7900GS is very fast too > although then you are starting to look at probably $300 for a video > card for a very old machine, which probably makes no sense. > I was looking at Tiger Direct. They have an FX5200 for under $50, but there are a couple of problems with it. First of all, the interface speed is 8x--My machine can only handle 4X. Secondly, the specs also say it needs at least a 250 watt power supply--my machine specs say the power supply is only 200 watts. I'm only willing to spend so much on upgrading this old box. A new card? OK. More than that? I don't think so. I noticed they have another card called a Diablotek GeForce4 MX 440 that seems to have lower specs. It handles 4X or 8x and has 128 MB of DDR memory. It doesn't say anything about the power supply requirements, but the minimum system requirements start out at the Pentium level up to AMD-K6. Perhaps something like that might work? -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 19:37:31 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 15:37:31 -0400 Subject: DVD Not Clear On Playback In-Reply-To: <20070514143138.9a9f8b66.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070513162703.69fea476.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070514150946.GT8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070514125245.f812a1be.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070514173311.GW8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070514143138.9a9f8b66.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20070514193731.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 02:31:38PM -0400, Glen Strom wrote: > I was looking at Tiger Direct. They have an FX5200 for under $50, but > there are a couple of problems with it. First of all, the interface > speed is 8x--My machine can only handle 4X. Secondly, the specs also > say it needs at least a 250 watt power supply--my machine specs say the > power supply is only 200 watts. I'm only willing to spend so much on > upgrading this old box. A new card? OK. More than that? I don't think > so. I used to run an FX5200 on my A7V (Via KT133) which is also 4x only. The only problem I ever had was that one version of the binary nvidia drivers tried to run the card faster than 4x due to a bug in the driver code which just didn't work under heavy 3D load. Disabling the AGP feature solved it, as did fixing the bug eventualy. You hardly ever need the AGP transfer from system memory stuff anyhow so disabling the agp stuff was no big deal. > I noticed they have another card called a Diablotek GeForce4 MX 440 > that seems to have lower specs. It handles 4X or 8x and has 128 MB of > DDR memory. It doesn't say anything about the power supply > requirements, but the minimum system requirements start out at the > Pentium level up to AMD-K6. Perhaps something like that might work? The FX5200 is 4x/8x too. The GeForce4 MX is a GeForce 2 based design, and is ancient to the point I am not even sure it could do video acceleration. I wouldn't touch that one. I currently run a 6600GT on that AGP 4x system. I believe all AGP 8x devices can run in a 4x system, but nothing lower than that. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 21:46:20 2007 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:46:20 -0400 Subject: [OT] IP Problems in Windoze - hidden SSID problem? In-Reply-To: <4647939C.9129.1EF3FCA-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <4647939C.9129.1EF3FCA@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <1179179180.16090.1189780399@webmail.messagingengine.com> Does your wireless network have a hidden SSID, and are you using Windows XP? If so, you may be falling victim to a particularly stupid problem in Windows XP, specifically its Wireless Zero Configuration ("WZC") service. When I was first setting up my parents' wireless network, I spent an insane amount of time trying unsuccessfully to convince my mother's company-issued XP laptop to automatically connect to their wireless router, which originally had SSID broadcast disabled. (My parents live in an urban area with literally dozens of other wireless networks in the immediate area, and I was trying not to provide an obvious target for hacking.) Even adding the router's SSID to the Windows "Preferred Networks" list didn't work; my mother's machine would consistently connect to their neighbours' (wide-open) network instead of their own. My father's iBook, on the other hand, was consistently able to connect and reconnect to the router with no problems. After some Googling, the awful truth was revealed: the WZC service is specifically designed to try *all* visible SSIDs before trying *any* hidden ones in the "Preferred Networks" list. This means that if your router has a hidden SSID, and your neighbour has an open network with a visible SSID, Windows XP will *always* connect to your neighbour's network, even if your own network is higher in the "Preferred Networks" priority list and has a stronger signal. If this turns out to be your situation, you have the following options: (1) Turn off the WZC service, and always connect to your network manually; (2) Turn off the WZC service, and use a third-party tool (such as your wireless card vendor's own software) to enable roaming; or (3) Re-enable SSID broadcasting on your router. When I tried searching Microsoft's website at the time about ways to resolve this problem, all I found were pious statements to the effect that you really shouldn't be hiding your SSID anyway (naughty, naughty), and that they specifically discouraged SSID hiding as a matter of policy. With the release of Vista, they seem to have backed down from this position somewhat, as Vista allows you to connect to hidden wireless networks by setting up a manual wireless connection and enabling the "Connect even if the network is not broadcasting" checkbox. (Not that this is any reason to consider "upgrading" to Vista, of course.) Here are some references that explain the WZC system and Windows wireless configuration issues in more detail (boy, am I going to feel dirty typing these in): *** Windows Wireless Zero Configuration: Five Steps to Sanity http://www.smallbusinesscomputing.com/webmaster/article.php/3577111 Windows XP Wireless Auto Configuration: The Cable Guy, November 2002 http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/columns/cableguy/cg1102.mspx Wireless LAN Client in Microsoft Windows - Configuration and Authentication http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/chats/trans/network/net1111.mspx You cannot reconnect to a wireless network that uses a hidden SSID after you manually disconnect from that network on a Windows XP Service Pack 2-based computer http://support.microsoft.com/kb/907405/en-us Velocity Reviews forums: Wireless Networking - xp wireless :-(( http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t4652-xp-wireless-.html Velocity Reviews forums: Wireless Networking - Hidden SSID http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t299090-hidden-ssid.html Connecting to non-broadcast wireless networks in Windows Vista http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929661/en-us *** Time to wash my hands... Amanda ----- Original message ----- From: "Paul King" To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 22:39:24 -0400 Subject: [TLUG]: [OT] IP Problems in Windoze Hello: I seem to be logging on to an outside network that has superceded my router. The address family of my laptop is now 164.*.*.*, when it ought to be 192.*.*.* (the address family of my router). Before anyone tells me to give security encryption a try, I would like to know if there is a way to overcome this problem first. FWIW, the network is not recognised at all in Linux. But in Windows, I can see into other people's laptops, probably in a nearby restaurant. All this, and no Internet. Other computers on my local network are working properly, though. Any help would be appreciated Regards Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 21:04:48 2007 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:04:48 -0400 Subject: php viewer Message-ID: <200705141704.48575.wildberger@cogeco.ca> What programs do I have to download to view a file with a .php extension? I am using Mandriva2007. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 22:03:24 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 18:03:24 -0400 Subject: php viewer In-Reply-To: <200705141704.48575.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200705141704.48575.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <4648DCAC.7000300@utoronto.ca> John Wildberger wrote: > What programs do I have to download to view a file with a .php extension? > I am using Mandriva2007. php gets executed by servers like apache, lighttpd etc., and turned into html for your browser, so the short answer is that you can't download and view the source php of a webpage. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 22:28:35 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 18:28:35 -0400 Subject: php viewer In-Reply-To: <200705141704.48575.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200705141704.48575.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <200705141828.35367.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Monday 14 May 2007 17:04:48 John Wildberger wrote: > What programs do I have to download to view a file with a .php extension? > I am using Mandriva2007. If you're browser is asking you to select a program for viewing when you browse to a PHP page then the server is not set up properly ... it should be setting mime type to text/html, it probably is not otherwise your browser would know to display it as HTML. -- Fraser Campbell Georgetown, Ontario, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon May 14 23:43:42 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 19:43:42 -0400 Subject: DVD Not Clear On Playback In-Reply-To: <20070514193731.GA10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070513162703.69fea476.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070514150946.GT8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070514125245.f812a1be.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070514173311.GW8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070514143138.9a9f8b66.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070514193731.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070514194342.b755dc66.gstrom@teksavvy.com> On Mon, 14 May 2007 15:37:31 -0400 lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: > I used to run an FX5200 on my A7V (Via KT133) which is also 4x only. > > The only problem I ever had was that one version of the binary nvidia > drivers tried to run the card faster than 4x due to a bug in the > driver code which just didn't work under heavy 3D load. Disabling > the AGP feature solved it, as did fixing the bug eventualy. You > hardly ever need the AGP transfer from system memory stuff anyhow so > disabling the agp stuff was no big deal. > A new video card might not be necessary now. I bought a couple of DVD's today and they seem to play ok. No ghosting to speak of. There must have been something wrong with that first DVD. I think I might try that FX5200 anyway. It can't hurt to get better performance. The current card is pathetically old. I think that would be the last upgrade for this box, though. It's not worth spending much more on it. Thanks for your help, Len. -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 00:32:18 2007 From: myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 20:32:18 -0400 Subject: php viewer In-Reply-To: <200705141704.48575.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200705141704.48575.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <4648FF92.5080606@monkeyinyoursoul.com> The problem sounds like it is the developers of the website. What were you trying to download? a pdf? Just open it with a PDF viewer. John Wildberger wrote: > What programs do I have to download to view a file with a .php extension? > I am using Mandriva2007. > John > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 03:47:37 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 23:47:37 -0400 Subject: [OT] IP Problems in Windoze In-Reply-To: <464865BF.8080706-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4647939C.9129.1EF3FCA@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <4648F519.16747.4A3131C@sciguy.vex.net> > Paul King wrote: > > Hello: > > > > I seem to be logging on to an outside network that has superceded my router. > > The address family of my laptop is now 164.*.*.*, when it ought to be > > 192.*.*.* (the address family of my router). > > I'm assuming this is the wireless NIC on you laptop? > > Sounds like there must be an open network nearby with a DHCP server. That's > probably where you're picking up the unusual IP. > > From Windows "Network Connections" interface, you should be able to choose > which wireless signal you want to connect to if there is more than one > available. > It appears as though there are two with the same name ("default"), and since I changed the network name on my router (thinking that that was the problem), the problem still hasn't gone away. The problem of not hooking up still persists when I turn off the wireless and switch to cat 5. To get rid of the unusual IP, I run ipconfig or reboot. Regards Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 03:52:12 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 23:52:12 -0400 Subject: [OT] IP Problems in Windoze In-Reply-To: <20070514152000.GV8752-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4647939C.9129.1EF3FCA@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <4648F62C.8966.4A7462C@sciguy.vex.net> > On Sun, May 13, 2007 at 10:39:24PM -0400, Paul King wrote: > > Hello: > > > > I seem to be logging on to an outside network that has superceded my router. > > The address family of my laptop is now 164.*.*.*, when it ought to be > > 192.*.*.* (the address family of my router). > > Not 169.*.*.* ? 164; I am pretty sure; along with a spate of resources from other people's laptops. Obviously, my wifi is picking up a signal from somewhere else; but this network, which shows up in the list of available connections as "default", is the same name as the interfering network. > > > Before anyone tells me to give security encryption a try, I would like to know > > if there is a way to overcome this problem first. > > > > FWIW, the network is not recognised at all in Linux. But in Windows, I can see > > into other people's laptops, probably in a nearby restaurant. > > > > All this, and no Internet. > > > > Other computers on my local network are working properly, though. > > > > Any help would be appreciated > > If it was 169 then it would make sense since windows uses 169.*.*.* when > dhcp fails to retrieve an address. Usually means dhcp server not > responding, or link is broken or something similar. Never seen 164 > though. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > __________ NOD32 2266 (20070514) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 05:53:27 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 01:53:27 -0400 Subject: DVD Not Clear On Playback In-Reply-To: <20070514194342.b755dc66.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070513162703.69fea476.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070514150946.GT8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070514125245.f812a1be.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070514173311.GW8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070514143138.9a9f8b66.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070514193731.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070514194342.b755dc66.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <46494AD7.7050405@utoronto.ca> Glen Strom wrote: > A new video card might not be necessary now. I bought a couple of DVD's > today and they seem to play ok. No ghosting to speak of. There must > have been something wrong with that first DVD. I've done this before. To use a pedagogical example: Floppy Drive fails to format floppies. Is the floppy drive bad or the batch of floppies I'm using? Take care, Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 10:16:31 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 06:16:31 -0400 Subject: [OT] IP Problems in Windoze - hidden SSID problem? In-Reply-To: <1179179180.16090.1189780399-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <4647939C.9129.1EF3FCA@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <4649503F.18748.60720E3@sciguy.vex.net> Thank you very much for all your trouble. I left my SSID name as "default" (factory setting), and I think someone else did the same in a nearby wireless network. Thing is, my router broadcasts the SSID by default, but it is likely that both routers did. I will try to read all of the articles when I get the chance. Paul King > Does your wireless network have a hidden SSID, and are you using Windows > XP? If so, you may be falling victim to a particularly stupid problem > in Windows XP, specifically its Wireless Zero Configuration ("WZC") > service. > > When I was first setting up my parents' wireless network, I spent an > insane amount of time trying unsuccessfully to convince my mother's > company-issued XP laptop to automatically connect to their wireless > router, which originally had SSID broadcast disabled. (My parents live > in an urban area with literally dozens of other wireless networks in the > immediate area, and I was trying not to provide an obvious target for > hacking.) Even adding the router's SSID to the Windows "Preferred > Networks" list didn't work; my mother's machine would consistently > connect to their neighbours' (wide-open) network instead of their own. > My father's iBook, on the other hand, was consistently able to connect > and reconnect to the router with no problems. > > After some Googling, the awful truth was revealed: the WZC service is > specifically designed to try *all* visible SSIDs before trying *any* > hidden ones in the "Preferred Networks" list. This means that if your > router has a hidden SSID, and your neighbour has an open network with a > visible SSID, Windows XP will *always* connect to your neighbour's > network, even if your own network is higher in the "Preferred Networks" > priority list and has a stronger signal. > > If this turns out to be your situation, you have the following options: > (1) Turn off the WZC service, and always connect to your network > manually; (2) Turn off the WZC service, and use a third-party tool (such > as your wireless card vendor's own software) to enable roaming; or (3) > Re-enable SSID broadcasting on your router. > > When I tried searching Microsoft's website at the time about ways to > resolve this problem, all I found were pious statements to the effect > that you really shouldn't be hiding your SSID anyway (naughty, naughty), > and that they specifically discouraged SSID hiding as a matter of > policy. With the release of Vista, they seem to have backed down from > this position somewhat, as Vista allows you to connect to hidden > wireless networks by setting up a manual wireless connection and > enabling the "Connect even if the network is not broadcasting" checkbox. > (Not that this is any reason to consider "upgrading" to Vista, of > course.) > > Here are some references that explain the WZC system and Windows > wireless configuration issues in more detail (boy, am I going to feel > dirty typing these in): > > *** > > Windows Wireless Zero Configuration: Five Steps to Sanity > http://www.smallbusinesscomputing.com/webmaster/article.php/3577111 > > Windows XP Wireless Auto Configuration: The Cable Guy, November 2002 > http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/columns/cableguy/cg1102.mspx > > Wireless LAN Client in Microsoft Windows - Configuration and > Authentication > http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/chats/trans/network/net1111.mspx > > You cannot reconnect to a wireless network that uses a hidden SSID after > you manually disconnect from that network on a Windows XP Service Pack > 2-based computer > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/907405/en-us > > Velocity Reviews forums: Wireless Networking - xp wireless :-(( > http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t4652-xp-wireless-.html > > Velocity Reviews forums: Wireless Networking - Hidden SSID > http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t299090-hidden-ssid.html > > Connecting to non-broadcast wireless networks in Windows Vista > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929661/en-us > > *** > > Time to wash my hands... > > Amanda > > > ----- Original message ----- > From: "Paul King" > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 22:39:24 -0400 > Subject: [TLUG]: [OT] IP Problems in Windoze > > Hello: > > I seem to be logging on to an outside network that has superceded my > router. > The address family of my laptop is now 164.*.*.*, when it ought to be > 192.*.*.* > (the address family of my router). > > Before anyone tells me to give security encryption a try, I would like > to know > if there is a way to overcome this problem first. > > FWIW, the network is not recognised at all in Linux. But in Windows, I > can see > into other people's laptops, probably in a nearby restaurant. > > All this, and no Internet. > > Other computers on my local network are working properly, though. > > Any help would be appreciated > > Regards > > Paul King > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > __________ NOD32 2266 (20070514) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 14:09:27 2007 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 22:09:27 +0800 Subject: comments and inputs needed - HA Message-ID: <200705152209.28052.jerome@gmanmi.tv> hi, i wanted to implement HA on a DB production environment. i was thinking of using the following combination: Heartbeat+DRDB+MySQL or Heartbeat+RSYNC+MySQL or ????? and do you prefer HA over ethernet or HA over a serial cable are there things that i need to be worried about? thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 14:21:48 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 10:21:48 -0400 Subject: DVD Not Clear On Playback In-Reply-To: <20070514194342.b755dc66.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070513162703.69fea476.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070514150946.GT8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070514125245.f812a1be.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070514173311.GW8752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070514143138.9a9f8b66.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070514193731.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070514194342.b755dc66.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20070515142148.GB10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 07:43:42PM -0400, Glen Strom wrote: > A new video card might not be necessary now. I bought a couple of DVD's > today and they seem to play ok. No ghosting to speak of. There must > have been something wrong with that first DVD. > > I think I might try that FX5200 anyway. It can't hurt to get better > performance. The current card is pathetically old. I think that would > be the last upgrade for this box, though. It's not worth spending much > more on it. > > Thanks for your help, Len. Well maybe the makers of that DVD used a crappy encoder that blurred motion. Would be unusual but I guess possible. Canada computers has the 6800XT for $90. Strangely it is slower than the 6600GT (lower clock speed and slower memory) but also costs less than the 6600GT did. The model count from nvidia has simply gone too far. Too many variants. Logic computer house lists the FX5200 for $47, although I have no idea if they have any in stock. You could get an ATI 9250 for $41, which I believe is one of the few with open source opengl drivers, although I am not sure about that. I also have no idea what it's video acceleration support is like, although I suspect it does some at least. Certainly a major upgrade from a rage 128. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 14:28:52 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 10:28:52 -0400 Subject: comments and inputs needed - HA In-Reply-To: <200705152209.28052.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200705152209.28052.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20070515142852.GC27963@watson-wilson.ca> What is your definition of HA? How much down time can you have while the nodes fail over? Are these nodes active/passive? I've built a DB2 cluster using the Red Hat cluster suite. It works well, heart beat is done over regular Ethernet (bonded NICs). http://technocrat.watson-wilson.ca/db2-cluster.pdf -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 11 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pallen3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 16:21:51 2007 From: pallen3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Patrick Allen) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 11:21:51 -0500 Subject: [OT] IP Problems in Windoze In-Reply-To: <4648F519.16747.4A3131C-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <4647939C.9129.1EF3FCA@sciguy.vex.net> <4648F519.16747.4A3131C@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <4649DE1F.4070302@cogeco.ca> Paul King wrote: > The problem of not hooking up still persists when I turn off the wireless and > switch to cat 5. To get rid of the unusual IP, I run ipconfig or reboot. Strange that your not automagically being assigned a new IP when you switch connections. But Windows networking is strange and I can't claim to fully understand everything going on under the hood. The "ipconfig /relase" then "ipconfig /renew" commands often come in very handy for me. (So much so that I added a Command Prompt shortcut to my Quick Launch) There are ways of changing the IP Lease time. You might want to look into that so that you won't have to manually release them. -- Patrick Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 20:17:18 2007 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 16:17:18 -0400 Subject: S/W dev positions in downtown Toronto Message-ID: <1179260238.15749.1189991803@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hello all, My partner, Susan Davis, was recently hired by The FeedRoom, a New York-based streaming video provider. She is now the team lead for their "next-generation broadband video digital asset management system team" (whew!), and is looking to assemble a team of top-notch developers here in Toronto. Details are below. As far as I understand, this will be a very pro-Linux/Unix environment (Susan herself runs Gentoo on her desktop machine). Do note, however, that these positions are almost certain to involve dealing with Java and/or Ruby, and they are firm believers in "agile" development methods (e.g. Scrum, eXtreme Programming, and the like), so if you hate Java, Ruby and/or "agile" programming, then this probably isn't the job for you. Susan will be playing a large role in the hiring, so if you're interested, please let me know when you send in your resume, so I can let her know of your TLUG connection. Please pass this along to anyone you think may be interested. Thanks, Amanda *** For anyone who hasn't heard yet, I've left Intelliware, and am now the team lead for The Feedroom's next-generation broadband video digital asset management system team. I need to assemble a team of top talent; the opportunity and the technologies involved are really, really cool. Here's what I'm looking for: --- The Feedroom is the industry's leading provider of broadband streaming video. Our customers include many of the largest names in media and twelve of the Fortune 50; you can see some examples on our site at http://www.feedroom.com. We're looking for the very best software developers to join our team to develop the next generation of the company's core digital asset management system. You'll work with some of the best software talent in the business on a fast-paced agile team, doing "green field" development in the hottest new technologies (Flex and Apollo, with a SOA back end) for a project with a great deal of visibility. Our offices are located in Toronto's downtown core, close to the subway, and you'll work in an agile project room filled with sharp coworkers, with a panoramic view of Toronto Harbour. We're looking for people who 1. are brilliant, 2. get things done on time, and 3. work well with the rest of our team. We're looking for "A list" developers who are "generalizing specialists." We're going to be developing high-performance, mission-critical enterprise software that needs to be rock solid and very, very scalable, and we expect you to either come to us with a track record of successfully developing such systems, or prove to us that you're sharp enough to get up to speed on the problems involved very quickly. We're very picky about who we hire, we're unapologetic about that fact, and we care a lot more about your problem solving skills and your ability to write well-tested, well-designed, efficient code than we do about how many years of experience you have with which specific technologies. That said, having any or all of the following characteristics would make you more attractive to us: * Experience with Flex, especially in concert with Apollo, and especially especially in concert with Cairngorm, Flexible Rails, or the like. * Other experience with ActionScript, Flash, OpenLaszlo, and related technologies. * Experience with AJAX, DHTML, applets, and other technologies for creating rich client experiences. * Interface design and usability expertise. * Familiarity with Alfresco, OpenCMS, or other content management systems, especially their internals. * Workflow management experience with a framework such as jBPM. * Real-world SOA experience, with BPEL an extra plus. * An informed opinion about the relative merits of REST vs. WS-*, and the ability to clearly articulate it. * Recent enterprise Java experience, particularly with frameworks such as Spring and Hibernate. * Extensive SQL experience, including a clue about good data modeling, query optimization, and object/relational mapping issues. * Experience with aspect-oriented programming. * Security expertise. * Experience with agile methods such as Scrum and XP, with experience in leadership or in self-organizing teams a plus. * Test-driven development experience, and superior testing skills. * Continuous integration, source control, and project build expertise, particularly Maven, Ant, Raven/JRake, and so forth. * Strong object-oriented design, patterns, UML, and refactoring expertise. * Experience with dynamic languages such as Ruby and Groovy, especially used inside the JVM. * Operations and high-availability engineering experience. * Skill and interest in mentoring junior and intermediate developers. * A regular habit of reading up on the latest technologies, and a track record of applying them to help projects you've worked on. * Superior communications skills. * Passion and enthusiasm. We don't expect every successful candidate to have every one of those qualities, but they're all pluses. And successfully convincing us that there's an important point that we left off that list, and bringing to us relevant experience in it, would make you particularly attractive. We offer extremely competitive compensation, a good work/life balance, and the opportunity to help shape the direction of tomorrow's systems. If you're a high performer in search of a great opportunity, and would like to join an all-star team of other high performers, please send a copy of your resume in confidence to jobs-fcfbFhjiv9xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org, and let's talk! *** Amanda Yilmaz (for Susan Davis) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 22:13:40 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 18:13:40 -0400 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?alternatives_to_terago_wireless_in_toronto_=EF=BC=9F?= Message-ID: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> ?e recently started using ?erago, and ? have to tell you it sucks. ?ot only the connection, but ? can't get a response from their tech support either. ?re there alternatives to ?erago in the ?aughn area ? ?ave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 00:45:22 2007 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 20:45:22 -0400 Subject: alternatives to terago wireless in toronto ??? In-Reply-To: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <20070516004522.GB4688@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 06:13:40PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > ???e recently started using ???erago, and ??? have to tell you it sucks. > > ???ot only the connection, but ??? can't get a response from their > tech support either. > > ???re there alternatives to ???erago in the ???aughn area ??? > > ???ave and, apparently, they mangle upper-case letters too. :-) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 23:57:14 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 19:57:14 -0400 Subject: alternatives to terago wireless in toronto ??? In-Reply-To: <20070516004522.GB4688-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> <20070516004522.GB4688@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <8C323497-07A8-4CCF-AE2E-795C710786BA@visibleassets.com> On 15-May-07, at 8:45 PM, John Macdonald wrote: > On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 06:13:40PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: >> ???e recently started using ???erago, and ??? have to tell you it >> sucks. >> >> ???ot only the connection, but ??? can't get a response from their >> tech support either. >> >> ???re there alternatives to ???erago in the ???aughn area ??? >> >> ???ave > > and, apparently, they mangle upper-case letters too. :-) > I wondered about that, actually though it's my Mac after I removed all the unnecessary languages :( Guess I shouldn't have done that. Dave > -- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vince-J8gUg58EjS5Wk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 00:15:19 2007 From: vince-J8gUg58EjS5Wk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Vince Fry) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 20:15:19 -0400 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_:_alternatives_to_terago_wireless_in_toronto?= =?UTF-8?Q?_=EF=BC=9F?= In-Reply-To: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <3EB423EE-107B-45D3-8A1E-197173A9D852@vincefry.com> On 15-May-07, at 6:13 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > ?e recently started using ?erago, and ? have to tell you it > sucks. > > ?ot only the connection, but ? can't get a response from their > tech support either. > > ?re there alternatives to ?erago in the ?aughn area ? > > ?ave -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Dave, I've been using Terago for years, and have yet to have a problem. I would suggest you take it up with your account rep; they have a 99.999% guarantee on uptime, and if they aren't meeting that, you have a great case for getting at least some of your money back. Vince Fry vince-J8gUg58EjS5Wk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Check out my eStore!! (not kid or work friendly: you have been warned!) http://nookieto.adultestores.com/ Claiming that your operating system is the best in the world because more people use it is like saying McDonalds makes the best food in the world. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 02:17:47 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 22:17:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: BarCamp... Message-ID: <212810.6016.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> For those who have not heard of BarCamp, this is a variation/take off of the Foo camps that were/are run by technical book publisher O'Reilly (with Foo-Bar being a tongue-in-cheek take on FUBAR (F@#$%ed-Up Beyond All Recognition) . Basiclly an intense sharing of ideas, where EVERYONE attending is EXPECTED to make a short 45 minute presentation on a computer technology related topic (Internet related topics seem to get the biggest crowds). Cost of the camp is normally covered by one or more commercial sponsors. A full look the rules of BarCamp can be seen here: http://barcamp.org/TheRulesOfBarCamp So, there are now two BarCamp type events over the next month, the first one May 26 (but second one announced) is here: http://barcamp.org/BarCampTorontoTechWeek As of this writing there are open spots for this event, with registration here: http://barcamp.org/BarCampToronto3Participants (sorting through Wiki software being a filter mechanism, if you can't sort through the software to add your name to the registration list, you likely don't belong at this event :-) ). The other event is on June 2 and can be seen here: http://barcamp.org/InteractionCampToronto The problem with the above being that at present all the available space is filled, and a waiting list has been set-up. So, if your interested in attending, talking, doing personal networking at a technology oriented camp that will largely be filled with 20-something folks, I can can tell you from my experience last year should be great fun. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 10:27:25 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 06:27:25 -0400 Subject: alternatives to terago wireless in toronto ??? In-Reply-To: <8C323497-07A8-4CCF-AE2E-795C710786BA-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> <20070516004522.GB4688@lupus.perlwolf.com> <8C323497-07A8-4CCF-AE2E-795C710786BA@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990705160327m35d3c47cmf27cd22beb17fb9e@mail.gmail.com> On 5/15/07, Dave Cramer wrote: > On 15-May-07, at 8:45 PM, John Macdonald wrote: > > On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 06:13:40PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > >> ???e recently started using ???erago, and ??? have to tell you it > > and, apparently, they mangle upper-case letters too. :-) > > > I wondered about that, actually though it's my Mac after I removed > all the unnecessary languages :( > > Guess I shouldn't have done that. I'd say that it was just a problem with HTML email composition. The uppercase letters were being done in another font. Except when I reply to the email as text I can see the uppercase but they are obviously in a different characterset or something. Very strange. John wasn't able to see those fonts because of his setup. I am able to see the uppercase letters just fine. I also appear to be able to cut-and-paste them. > ?e recently started using ?erago, and ? have to tell you it sucks. Neat. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 11:20:28 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 07:20:28 -0400 Subject: Can't connect to internal modem Message-ID: <20070516112028.GB5410@waltdnes.org> My ADSL connection had a short outage during the weekend. I discovered, to my consternation, that my machine's internal modem wasn't being picked up. This is a 1999 Dell PIII that refuses to die. The PCI modem has worked in the past under Redhat and Gentoo. "lspci -v" shows... 00:10.0 Serial controller: 3Com Corp, Modem Division 56K FaxModem Model 5610 +(rev 01) (prog-if 02 [16550]) Subsystem: 3Com Corp, Modem Division Unknown device baba Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 9 I/O ports at 1430 [size=8] Capabilities: [dc] Power Management version 2 It's *NOT* a "winmodem". It's a bog-standard PCI modem that has worked in the past under linux without requiring special drivers. The only tweak it requires is allocating more than 4 serial ports in the kernel, which I've done. Any ideas on kernel settings I might have missed? -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 13:38:29 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 09:38:29 -0400 Subject: Can't connect to internal modem In-Reply-To: <20070516112028.GB5410-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070516112028.GB5410@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20070516133829.GC10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 07:20:28AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > My ADSL connection had a short outage during the weekend. I > discovered, to my consternation, that my machine's internal modem wasn't > being picked up. This is a 1999 Dell PIII that refuses to die. The PCI > modem has worked in the past under Redhat and Gentoo. "lspci -v" shows... > > 00:10.0 Serial controller: 3Com Corp, Modem Division 56K FaxModem Model > 5610 > +(rev 01) (prog-if 02 [16550]) > Subsystem: 3Com Corp, Modem Division Unknown device baba > Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 9 > I/O ports at 1430 [size=8] > Capabilities: [dc] Power Management version 2 > > It's *NOT* a "winmodem". It's a bog-standard PCI modem that has > worked in the past under linux without requiring special drivers. The > only tweak it requires is allocating more than 4 serial ports in the > kernel, which I've done. Any ideas on kernel settings I might have > missed? I think more recent 2.6 kernel changed something in how serial ports were allocated, so you may need a new parameter to tell it to allocate more than 4 serial ports. The kernels I build myself at the moment has these config options set: CONFIG_SERIAL_8250_NR_UARTS=36 CONFIG_SERIAL_8250_RUNTIME_UARTS=36 A stock debian kernel on the other hand has: CONFIG_SERIAL_8250_NR_UARTS=16 CONFIG_SERIAL_8250_RUNTIME_UARTS=4 I think the 'runtime uarts' is the one that you may have hit. You can increase it with a kernel command line option up to the maximum of the NR_UARTS value using this command line option: 8250.nr_uarts=XX (where XX is how many ports you want it to look for in total). So you can add that to your kernel line in grub's menu.lst or your append in lilo.conf and it should work. It used to be that whatever the NR_UARTS was set to was how many ports it would look for. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 13:47:28 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 09:47:28 -0400 Subject: alternatives to terago wireless in toronto ??? In-Reply-To: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <20070516134728.GD10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 06:13:40PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > ???e recently started using ???erago, and ??? have to tell you it sucks. > > ???ot only the connection, but ??? can't get a response from their > tech support either. > > ???re there alternatives to ???erago in the ???aughn area ??? > > ???ave Apparently I can't read you weird letters in your message. Whatever did you do/use? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 13:50:12 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 09:50:12 -0400 Subject: alternatives to terago wireless in toronto ??? In-Reply-To: <20070516134728.GD10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> <20070516134728.GD10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <464B0C14.4070809@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 06:13:40PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > >> ???e recently started using ???erago, and ??? have to tell you it sucks. >> >> ???ot only the connection, but ??? can't get a response from their >> tech support either. >> >> ???re there alternatives to ???erago in the ???aughn area ??? >> >> ???ave >> > > Apparently I can't read you weird letters in your message. Whatever did > you do/use? > > I was able to read them, but those letters were in a different font from the others. This is an excellent example why it's not a good idea to be "cute" in email. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 13:52:40 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 09:52:40 -0400 Subject: alternatives to terago wireless in toronto ??? In-Reply-To: <20070516134728.GD10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> <20070516134728.GD10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <80911CF7-6706-48E4-BAB3-429841057FDF@visibleassets.com> On 16-May-07, at 9:47 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 06:13:40PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: >> ???e recently started using ???erago, and ??? have to tell you it >> sucks. >> >> ???ot only the connection, but ??? can't get a response from their >> tech support either. >> >> ???re there alternatives to ???erago in the ???aughn area ??? >> >> ???ave > > Apparently I can't read you weird letters in your message. > Whatever did > you do/use? > Ok, I removed all the "extra" languages from my Mac and now that I've restarted the programs it's all good Can we get back to my question ? Dave > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 14:22:10 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 10:22:10 -0400 Subject: alternatives to terago wireless in toronto ??? In-Reply-To: <20070516134728.GD10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> <20070516134728.GD10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070516142210.GE10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 09:47:28AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Apparently I can't read you weird letters in your message. Whatever did > you do/use? The original message actually had some rather strange characters in it (I added spaces around the weird stuff to prevent 'smarter' email clients from trying to make sense of them. = E F = B C = B 7 e recently started using = E F = B C = B 4 erago, and = E F = B C = A 9 have to = tell you it sucks. = E F = B C = A E ot only the connection, but = E F = B C = A 9 can't get a response from = their = 2 0 tech support either. = E F = B C = A 1 re there alternatives to = E F = B C = B 4 erago in the = E F = B C = B 6 aughn = area = E F = B C = 9 F = E F = B C = A 4 ave = 2 0 = 2 0 = So what weird email client though that qualified as plain text? Even though it claims UTF8, I didn't think there was an alternate unicode character for every capital letter in english. After all why would there be? Well after looking it up it turns out that your email client being overly clever decided that it would be a good idea to use a 'FULLWIDTH LATIN CAPITAL LETTER V' rather than a 'LATIN CAPITAL LETTER V' Stupid Macs. Always have to use fancy quotes, fancy capital letters and fancy who knows what, never mind that no one else can read the darn stuff. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 14:23:07 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 10:23:07 -0400 Subject: alternatives to terago wireless in toronto ??? In-Reply-To: <464B0C14.4070809-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> <20070516134728.GD10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <464B0C14.4070809@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070516142307.GF10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 09:50:12AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > I was able to read them, but those letters were in a different font from > the others. This is an excellent example why it's not a good idea to be > "cute" in email. After checking, they are not a different font, they are a different letter. The are 'fullwidth' versions of regular captital letters. For some reason unicude has fullwidth versions of the capital letters. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 14:24:52 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 10:24:52 -0400 Subject: alternatives to terago wireless in toronto ??? In-Reply-To: <80911CF7-6706-48E4-BAB3-429841057FDF-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> <20070516134728.GD10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <80911CF7-6706-48E4-BAB3-429841057FDF@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <20070516142452.GG10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 09:52:40AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > Ok, I removed all the "extra" languages from my Mac and now that I've > restarted the programs it's all good I see your Mac has been told to not be clever anymore. :) > Can we get back to my question ? I guess a question is: What do you use your ISP for and what do you expect from them? After all suggesting rogers cable might not be useful if you are looking for a hosting service or such. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 14:45:37 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 10:45:37 -0400 Subject: alternatives to terago wireless in toronto ??? In-Reply-To: <20070516142452.GG10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> <20070516134728.GD10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <80911CF7-6706-48E4-BAB3-429841057FDF@visibleassets.com> <20070516142452.GG10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 16-May-07, at 10:24 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 09:52:40AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: >> Ok, I removed all the "extra" languages from my Mac and now that I've >> restarted the programs it's all good > > I see your Mac has been told to not be clever anymore. :) > Well, I broke my Mac, and now it's fixed >> Can we get back to my question ? > > I guess a question is: What do you use your ISP for and what do you > expect from them? After all suggesting rogers cable might not be > useful > if you are looking for a hosting service or such. :) > I need 24x7 connectivity with decent throughput (>3M) . This is for a business and we are running VOIP over it. If rogers or bell were available in this particular area I'd already be using them. Wireless has come a long way but it is still wireless To be fair my Terago rep saw this thread and has called me. So I'll be fair and report the results when I get them. Dave > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 15:43:26 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 11:43:26 -0400 Subject: alternatives to terago wireless in toronto ??? In-Reply-To: References: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> <20070516134728.GD10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <80911CF7-6706-48E4-BAB3-429841057FDF@visibleassets.com> <20070516142452.GG10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070516154326.GH10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 10:45:37AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > I need 24x7 connectivity with decent throughput (>3M) . This is for a > business and we are running VOIP over it. > > If rogers or bell were available in this particular area I'd already > be using them. Wireless has come a long way but it is still wireless Where are you located? > To be fair my Terago rep saw this thread and has called me. So I'll > be fair and report the results when I get them. Well hopefully it will be fixed soon then. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 16:32:06 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 12:32:06 -0400 Subject: alternatives to terago wireless in toronto ??? In-Reply-To: <20070516142210.GE10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> <20070516134728.GD10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070516142210.GE10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070516163206.GB3095@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 10:22:10AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 09:47:28AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Apparently I can't read you weird letters in your message. Whatever did >> you do/use? >Well after looking it up it turns out that your email client being >overly clever decided that it would be a good idea to use a >'FULLWIDTH LATIN CAPITAL LETTER V' rather than a >'LATIN CAPITAL LETTER V' > >Stupid Macs. Always have to use fancy quotes, fancy capital letters and >fancy who knows what, never mind that no one else can read the darn >stuff. :) Well, I'll grant that Apple, quite sensibly based on their target markets ten+ years ago (musicians, artists, graphic designers), do things differently to give a "more polished" look to their products and services, and I'll grant that this makes their output less interoperable, but I will not fault them entirely. I have set up my terminals to use UTF8, and I read the original email just fine in mutt. I think that using non-UTF8 in this day and age is more likely to lead to problems rather than less. Macs use unicode, Windows uses unicode, and Linux/*BSD are fully capable of handling and displaying unicode. More and more of my input is unicode, so it makes sense to handle it. Vim manages most potential problems by being sensitive to the file encoding, so I can edit ascii and write ascii when needed without jumping through hoops. I think the phrase is "be generous with what you accept, and strict with what you produce", and while Macs may not necessarily follow the second, you are not following the first. Still, the meaning managed to come through throughout this exchange, including smileys, so it's probably not that big a deal :-) -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 16:42:32 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 12:41:32 -0401 Subject: alternatives to terago wireless in toronto ??? In-Reply-To: <20070516163206.GB3095-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> <20070516134728.GD10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070516142210.GE10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070516163206.GB3095@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <7ac602420705160942s4ee2b858lf5730561f5ad2c1@mail.gmail.com> On 5/16/07, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I think that using non-UTF8 in this day and age is more likely to lead > to problems rather than less. Macs use unicode, Windows uses unicode, > and Linux/*BSD are fully capable of handling and displaying unicode. > More and more of my input is unicode, so it makes sense to handle it. > Vim manages most potential problems by being sensitive to the file > encoding, so I can edit ascii and write ascii when needed without > jumping through hoops. One of the nice benefits of using UTF-8 is that all the characters defined in 7-bit ASCII map to exactly the same bit patterns in UTF-8. If you're writing a text file in English and save it as UTF-8, an ASCII-only editor will read it just fine. The downside, of course, is that UTF-8 is unnecessarily bulky for people whose primary language uses multi-byte characters. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 20:57:40 2007 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 16:57:40 -0400 Subject: alternatives to terago wireless in toronto ??? In-Reply-To: <20070516134728.GD10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> <20070516134728.GD10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070516205740.GA12833@md5.ca> Lennart Sorensen(lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org)@Wed, May 16, 2007 at 09:47:28AM -0400: > Apparently I can't read you weird letters in your message. Whatever did > you do/use? It is UTF-8 standard, that everyone, especially unix people should get around to using. For the longest time russian sites used cp1251 or koi8-r encoding, which is dubious - originated in non-unix/non-internet way. His headers say that mail is UTF-8 encoded, so he didn't try to trick people into reading his partially 'binary' email. utf-8 is kernel-level friendly. Cheers, Pavel -- Create like God. Command like a King. Work like a Slave. http://arslogic.com | http://arslogic.com/resume.pdf direct: 416-564-5255 | fax: 416-596-0128 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 21:24:12 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 17:24:12 -0400 Subject: alternatives to terago wireless in toronto ??? In-Reply-To: <20070516205740.GA12833-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> <20070516134728.GD10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070516205740.GA12833@md5.ca> Message-ID: <20070516212412.GI10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 04:57:40PM -0400, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > It is UTF-8 standard, that everyone, especially unix people should get around to > using. For the longest time russian sites used cp1251 or koi8-r encoding, > which is dubious - originated in non-unix/non-internet way. His headers say > that mail is UTF-8 encoded, so he didn't try to trick people into reading > his partially 'binary' email. utf-8 is kernel-level friendly. Well mutt running over ssh with terminal type of 'xterm' just showed ??? for each non ascii character. For mailing lists you are better off with plain text. For some languages unicode is needed, but for english it isn't, unless apparenly your mac thinks you would like 'pretty' wide capitals. Fortunately it can apparently be told not to do that. I probably should see if I can convince it to support unicode. utf8 may be kernel friendly, but that doesn't mean it is always application friendly. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 22:02:20 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 18:01:20 -0401 Subject: alternatives to terago wireless in toronto ??? In-Reply-To: <20070516212412.GI10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> <20070516134728.GD10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070516205740.GA12833@md5.ca> <20070516212412.GI10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420705161502i683e5fa6n4b04c49351c8bec2@mail.gmail.com> On 5/16/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well mutt running over ssh with terminal type of 'xterm' just showed ??? > for each non ascii character. For mailing lists you are better off with > plain text. For some languages unicode is needed, but for english it > isn't, unless apparenly your mac thinks you would like 'pretty' wide > capitals. Fortunately it can apparently be told not to do that. > > I probably should see if I can convince it to support unicode. Running uxterm instead of xterm gives you UTF-8 support. The weird thing is, when I just ran it, echo $TERM still reports xterm. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 22:20:01 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 18:20:01 -0400 Subject: alternatives to terago wireless in toronto ??? In-Reply-To: <20070516212412.GI10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> <20070516134728.GD10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070516205740.GA12833@md5.ca> <20070516212412.GI10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070516222001.GC3095@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 05:24:12PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 04:57:40PM -0400, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: >> It is UTF-8 standard, that everyone, especially unix people should get around to >> using. For the longest time russian sites used cp1251 or koi8-r encoding, >> which is dubious - originated in non-unix/non-internet way. His headers say >> that mail is UTF-8 encoded, so he didn't try to trick people into reading >> his partially 'binary' email. utf-8 is kernel-level friendly. > >Well mutt running over ssh with terminal type of 'xterm' just showed ??? >for each non ascii character. For mailing lists you are better off with >plain text. For some languages unicode is needed, but for english it >isn't, unless apparenly your mac thinks you would like 'pretty' wide >capitals. Fortunately it can apparently be told not to do that. > >I probably should see if I can convince it to support unicode. I run terminals over SSH pretty much constantly, and something that makes an enormous difference to me in that context is screen. Even if you are just running a single activity in screen it is very handy, as screen will better support UTF8, but it really shines if your connection drops, as you will be able to resume your session once you have connectivity, and once you start multiplexing your terminals you will also have an advantage. I run a screen session with 7 subscreens, four for mutt with different accounts, one shell, one is mp3blaster (handy even when remote - I can send audio messages to my wife at home) and one running finch, an instant messages program. I can be working on things remotely, come home and continue, then go back to work the next day, for weeks, without starting or stopping any given activity. The fact that it gets colours, cursor keys, Home and End keys right is all just a big bonus. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu May 17 15:23:15 2007 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:23:15 -0400 Subject: alternatives to terago wireless in toronto ??? In-Reply-To: <20070516205740.GA12833-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> <20070516134728.GD10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070516205740.GA12833@md5.ca> Message-ID: <20070517152315.GC12948@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 04:57:40PM -0400, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > Lennart Sorensen(lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org)@Wed, May 16, 2007 at 09:47:28AM -0400: > > Apparently I can't read you weird letters in your message. Whatever did > > you do/use? > It is UTF-8 standard, that everyone, especially unix people should get around to > using. For the longest time russian sites used cp1251 or koi8-r encoding, > which is dubious - originated in non-unix/non-internet way. His headers say > that mail is UTF-8 encoded, so he didn't try to trick people into reading > his partially 'binary' email. utf-8 is kernel-level friendly. > Cheers, > Pavel One advantage of *NOT* handing UTF8 is that (for me at least) when I get UTF8-encoded mail it is 99.9% probability of spam while ASCII7 is more like 95%. People who regularly communicate in other languages won't have that benefit. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 17 14:10:25 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:10:25 -0400 Subject: alternatives to terago wireless in toronto ??? In-Reply-To: <7ac602420705161502i683e5fa6n4b04c49351c8bec2-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> <20070516134728.GD10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070516205740.GA12833@md5.ca> <20070516212412.GI10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420705161502i683e5fa6n4b04c49351c8bec2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070517141025.GJ10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 06:01:20PM -0401, Ian Petersen wrote: > Running uxterm instead of xterm gives you UTF-8 support. The weird > thing is, when I just ran it, echo $TERM still reports xterm. Well I run konsole, which does actually support utf8 if you tell it to use that encoding. Unfortunately it seems most unicode characters still don't show up although the few in question with the original email did in fact show up when I switched the encoding setting to utf8. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu May 17 20:04:48 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:04:48 -0400 Subject: alternatives to terago wireless in toronto ??? In-Reply-To: <20070517152315.GC12948-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <509AEF45-9D18-44B4-AEC5-33EEF29ADBC2@visibleassets.com> <20070516134728.GD10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070516205740.GA12833@md5.ca> <20070517152315.GC12948@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: Sorry to hijack my own thread back. I'm glad to report that Terago has fixed the problems. Today I've had no outages, and their technical support has been outstanding. Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri May 18 03:11:14 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 23:11:14 -0400 Subject: Solved: Can't connect to internal modem In-Reply-To: <20070516112028.GB5410-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070516112028.GB5410@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20070518031114.GB12750@waltdnes.org> On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 07:20:28AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote > My ADSL connection had a short outage during the weekend. I > discovered, to my consternation, that my machine's internal modem wasn't > being picked up. This is a 1999 Dell PIII that refuses to die. The PCI > modem has worked in the past under Redhat and Gentoo. "lspci -v" shows... > > 00:10.0 Serial controller: 3Com Corp, Modem Division 56K FaxModem Model > 5610 > +(rev 01) (prog-if 02 [16550]) > Subsystem: 3Com Corp, Modem Division Unknown device baba > Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 9 > I/O ports at 1430 [size=8] > Capabilities: [dc] Power Management version 2 A rather heavy-handed solution was to emerge "setserial" and execute setserial /dev/ttyS4 port 0x1430 irq 9 This initializes the port, and pppconfig now finds /dev/ttyS4 when doing an auto-probe. And dialup works. This is nice to know, because I'll be moving later this summer, and may be dialup-only for a few weeks depending on circumstances. I've copied the above setserial command to /etc/conf.d/local.start to ensure it's automatically executed at bootup. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 18 18:00:37 2007 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:00:37 -0400 Subject: Website design Message-ID: <464DE9C5.8080307@rogers.com> Hi Folk, I'm hoping that there are people here that can recommend a website designer for a fairly simple site -- 3 or 4 pages, no flash or other animations. I'm also looking for a hosting company as well. I'm not adverse to an all in one solution for the above, but I'd like the option of not being tied to one source. TIA John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 18 18:08:52 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:08:52 -0400 Subject: Website design In-Reply-To: <464DE9C5.8080307-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <464DE9C5.8080307@rogers.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0705181108p1177f242tbc0371d737bf4c86@mail.gmail.com> On 5/18/07, John McGregor wrote: > Hi Folk, > I'm hoping that there are people here that can recommend a > website designer for a fairly simple site -- 3 or 4 pages, no flash or > other animations. I'm also looking for a hosting company as well. I'm > not adverse to an all in one solution for the above, but I'd like the > option of not being tied to one source. Lol - I just registered psema4.com with HostGator using a "Hatchling" account because I couldn't justify buying a reseller's account. Heheh. In the last few months I've left my previous employer (amicably) where I was the corporate webmaster. Now I'm planning to focus on FOSS development, website design, and IS&T infrastructure planning/consulting. Please feel free to contact me off-list. Take care, - Scott -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 18 18:11:55 2007 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:11:55 -0400 Subject: Website design In-Reply-To: <464DE9C5.8080307-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <464DE9C5.8080307@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b20705181111w4ef21fe3md3636e34b2762030@mail.gmail.com> Hi John, I am a web developer as well. No shortage of them, eh? :-) www.innoveghtive.com I also provide hosting, but it's not a core business: I'm happy to work with any hosting provider -- and even happier when that provider is running *NIX. Cheers, Aaron. On 5/18/07, John McGregor wrote: > Hi Folk, > I'm hoping that there are people here that can recommend a > website designer for a fairly simple site -- 3 or 4 pages, no flash or > other animations. I'm also looking for a hosting company as well. I'm > not adverse to an all in one solution for the above, but I'd like the > option of not being tied to one source. > > TIA > > John > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri May 18 18:45:36 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:45:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Website design In-Reply-To: <464DE9C5.8080307-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <464DE9C5.8080307@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 May 2007, John McGregor wrote: > Hi Folk, > I'm hoping that there are people here that can recommend a > website designer for a fairly simple site -- 3 or 4 pages, no flash or > other animations. I'm also looking for a hosting company as well. I'm > not adverse to an all in one solution for the above, but I'd like the > option of not being tied to one source. I'll throw my name into the ring for web design. You can see my work at (which is a really collection of several sites of varying vintages under one name) and . -- Chris F.A. Johnson ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 19 12:43:02 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 08:43:02 -0400 Subject: Making konqueror un-never-remember passwords Message-ID: <1e55af990705190543p22b3804end926bf293a52365a@mail.gmail.com> There are websites which are being ignored by konqueror and kwalletmanager entirely. Nomatter what I do, a password is not stored for particular websites. For those particular websites, when I logged in and was prompted to store the password, I accidentally chose "never for this site". How do I undo this? I see no feature in kwalletmanager or konqueror. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 19 12:56:51 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 08:56:51 -0400 Subject: Helping a newbie list or troubleshoot their hardware Message-ID: <1e55af990705190556r4b3e67b2s649e7d16719d86fd@mail.gmail.com> In order to expedite a person's installation and troubleshooting, I'm wondering how we can have them learn about their particular setup. * Learn if they meet minimum system requirements * Learn if they may have hardware which isn't so Linux-friendly * Provide a simple list of their hardware information * Optionally provide a more complex breakdown of their hardware information - to be sent to an advanced person for troubleshooting. I'm not sure if such stuff is easy or is already done, so I'm going to ramble on for a little bit. Is there a Linux + Windows program which can scan hardware and: * compare it to an already-provided configuration file and just tell the person "yes you're ok" or "no, you only have x memory" ? * view a local database or preferably connect with an online Linux compatible database and just tell the user "all your hardware is awesome" or "some people had problems with the video card you have, here are some links and here are links to your own distro's docs on that hardware..." ? after having installed Linux: * send their list of hardware to the linux compatible database alongside their comments - i.e. to be able to easily update the database with "hey, all my hardware seems to work - mouse, keyboard, screen, nic, motherboard, video for non-3d, etc" Or also, is there a program which can take their list of hardware and perform specific tests to see if it all works? - i.e. if it sees a webcam, it'll do some v4l magic and get them to test it quickly, and then just fire off that report. The real goal would be to have such functionality on a tiny LiveCD and on a distro LiveCD either within the live distro itself or as its own menu item like how memcheck86 or rescue distros are provided on many liveCDs. How lofty is this dream? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 19 14:57:37 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 10:57:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Helping a newbie list or troubleshoot their hardware In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705190556r4b3e67b2s649e7d16719d86fd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705190556r4b3e67b2s649e7d16719d86fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <101330.25281.qm@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Sy Ali wrote: > In order to expedite a person's installation and > troubleshooting, I'm > wondering how we can have them learn about their > particular setup. > > * Learn if they meet minimum system requirements > * Learn if they may have hardware which isn't so > Linux-friendly > * Provide a simple list of their hardware > information > * Optionally provide a more complex breakdown of > their hardware > information - to be sent to an advanced person for > troubleshooting. Not quite what you are after, but something I would START with is the latest version of Knoppix (a live CD, just pop the CD into a machine, tell it to boot from CD and wait). The hardware detection system in Knoppix is excellent (not perfect, but close), If a device runs under Knoppix it runs under Linux (though you may run into some series grief with some other distros.). If it doesn't run under Knoppix, then while you MIGHT be able to get it running under some other Linux distros, you should assume at the very least your looking at a LOT of pain... Standard Linux tools are available under Knoppix for hardware listing/checking are available under Knoppix (ie: hwinfo, lspci, etc...) In other words as a quick and dirty it will / will not test of hardware, Knoppix is a great choice... Colin McGregor > I'm not sure if such stuff is easy or is already > done, so I'm going to > ramble on for a little bit. > > > Is there a Linux + Windows program which can scan > hardware and: > > * compare it to an already-provided configuration > file and just tell > the person "yes you're ok" or "no, you only have x > memory" ? > > * view a local database or preferably connect with > an online Linux > compatible database and just tell the user "all your > hardware is > awesome" or "some people had problems with the video > card you have, > here are some links and here are links to your own > distro's docs on > that hardware..." ? > > after having installed Linux: > > * send their list of hardware to the linux > compatible database > alongside their comments - i.e. to be able to easily > update the > database with "hey, all my hardware seems to work - > mouse, keyboard, > screen, nic, motherboard, video for non-3d, etc" > > Or also, is there a program which can take their > list of hardware and > perform specific tests to see if it all works? - > i.e. if it sees a > webcam, it'll do some v4l magic and get them to test > it quickly, and > then just fire off that report. > > > The real goal would be to have such functionality on > a tiny LiveCD and > on a distro LiveCD either within the live distro > itself or as its own > menu item like how memcheck86 or rescue distros are > provided on many > liveCDs. > > How lofty is this dream? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 19 17:51:00 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 13:51:00 -0400 Subject: Making konqueror un-never-remember passwords In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705190543p22b3804end926bf293a52365a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705190543p22b3804end926bf293a52365a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Silly advise but.... you can always remove configurational files and start konqueror again. I suspect that some editions could be done manualy. I sometime played in that way with .mozilla files. I do not use konqueror though, so this a bit a guessing. On 5/19/07, Sy Ali wrote: > > There are websites which are being ignored by konqueror and > kwalletmanager entirely. Nomatter what I do, a password is not stored > for particular websites. > > For those particular websites, when I logged in and was prompted to > store the password, I accidentally chose "never for this site". > > > How do I undo this? I see no feature in kwalletmanager or konqueror. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat May 19 18:09:51 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 14:09:51 -0400 Subject: Making konqueror un-never-remember passwords In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705190543p22b3804end926bf293a52365a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705190543p22b3804end926bf293a52365a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070519140951.57dd0e0b.gstrom@teksavvy.com> On Sat, 19 May 2007 08:43:02 -0400 "Sy Ali" wrote: > There are websites which are being ignored by konqueror and > kwalletmanager entirely. Nomatter what I do, a password is not stored > for particular websites. > > For those particular websites, when I logged in and was prompted to > store the password, I accidentally chose "never for this site". > > > How do I undo this? I see no feature in kwalletmanager or konqueror. Although I don't use Konqueror as a web browser, I've had this problem occasionally under Opera. I found the solution is to delete all cookies for that website. That should cause the password prompt to reappear when you go back to the site. -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 20 00:59:34 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 20:59:34 -0400 Subject: Making konqueror un-never-remember passwords In-Reply-To: <20070519140951.57dd0e0b.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705190543p22b3804end926bf293a52365a@mail.gmail.com> <20070519140951.57dd0e0b.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990705191759v110f92ecxe1698c8d04a9546c@mail.gmail.com> On 5/19/07, Glen Strom wrote: > Although I don't use Konqueror as a web browser, I've had this problem > occasionally under Opera. I found the solution is to delete all cookies > for that website. That should cause the password prompt to reappear > when you go back to the site. Deleting all preferences isn't an option at this point. I'd fiddled around too much. Deleting cookies has no effect. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 20 01:15:43 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 21:15:43 -0400 Subject: Helping a newbie list or troubleshoot their hardware In-Reply-To: <101330.25281.qm-57gzaD/7YRGB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705190556r4b3e67b2s649e7d16719d86fd@mail.gmail.com> <101330.25281.qm@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990705191815i53cf8bfeyc0b259a10f83e52e@mail.gmail.com> On 5/19/07, Colin McGregor wrote: > Standard Linux tools are available under Knoppix for > hardware listing/checking are available under Knoppix > (ie: hwinfo, lspci, etc...) It's this list that I'm after. =) Plus, non-Linux tools would be as or more helpful, since most users would be coming from Windows (or Macs?). > In other words as a quick and dirty it will / will not > test of hardware, Knoppix is a great choice... PCLinuxOS is equal or better, which is what I'm writing this bit of documentation for. I bumped into some hardware-related stuff which does a great job of summarizing. But I don't ever want to see this: Do a lot of reading and "get sold on this Linux thing" Go through several distributions, trying to figure out what's different between them Go through the hell of trying to download an ISO, maybe multiple times Figure out how to do this md5sum stuff - why doesn't my download "just work"? Figure out how to burn a CD. Oops, I burned a few coasters while trying - burned the ISO as a file, mis-burned by burning at a high speed, etc. Boot from the CD Wait Wait ... Get lots of errors that I don't understand be totally unable to troubleshoot even the most simple problems. maybe go through the trouble of re-downloading and re-burning. Get frustrated at this "Linux thing" give up tell all my friends that Linux sucks kill all my Linux friends and feed them to their parents frown at a kitten So if a person were able to figure out their hardware without so much trouble it would help. A smaller specialized distro could be ok, but maybe what I'm really after is Windows software and various distro and general Linux hardware databases - I know of a few which are fair, but they don't seem to trade information nor do they act as real databases with an API to update software similar to virus scanners and the virus database. Some kind of program which not only checked and reported on my hardware but could tell me things like "most people use closed-source drivers for your video card" or "your laptop has issues with suspending" would be a dream. =/ Imagine if everyone reported their hardware as easily as contributing to the open CDDB. So I guess for now I'd hunt for windows software which does decent information-gathering. Preferably open source. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun May 20 20:43:57 2007 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 16:43:57 -0400 Subject: Xorg 7.2 and ATI driver Message-ID: <200705201643.58131.marc@lijour.net> Hi The proprietary ATI driver (CATALYST) is turning into a bigger headache as I can't find a version playing with my xorg. I am running Mandriva 2007.1 Spring on x86_64. Any suggestion for an affordable video card (while waiting for ATI to release something -preferably working, and preferably playing with the community interests)? I am currently running the free driver but it is so slow and it takes 80% of my CPU just to run X. Thanks Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun May 20 23:26:06 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 19:26:06 -0400 Subject: Making konqueror un-never-remember passwords In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705191759v110f92ecxe1698c8d04a9546c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705190543p22b3804end926bf293a52365a@mail.gmail.com> <20070519140951.57dd0e0b.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <1e55af990705191759v110f92ecxe1698c8d04a9546c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4650D90E.7080303@ve3syb.ca> On 5/19/07, Glen Strom wrote: > Although I don't use Konqueror as a web browser, I've had this problem > occasionally under Opera. I found the solution is to delete all cookies > for that website. That should cause the password prompt to reappear > when you go back to the site. Firefox has a tab under Options where you can view saved password information. If Konqueror has something similar, look for entries for the sites for which you want to un-never-remember passwords and delete the relevant entries. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon May 21 01:36:27 2007 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 21:36:27 -0400 Subject: Making konqueror un-never-remember passwords In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705191759v110f92ecxe1698c8d04a9546c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705190543p22b3804end926bf293a52365a@mail.gmail.com> <20070519140951.57dd0e0b.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <1e55af990705191759v110f92ecxe1698c8d04a9546c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200705202136.28191.marc@lijour.net> On May 19, 2007, Sy Ali wrote: > On 5/19/07, Glen Strom wrote: > > Although I don't use Konqueror as a web browser, I've had this problem > > occasionally under Opera. I found the solution is to delete all cookies > > for that website. That should cause the password prompt to reappear > > when you go back to the site. > > Deleting all preferences isn't an option at this point. I'd fiddled > around too much. > > Deleting cookies has no effect. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Have you tried to check the settings on kwalletmanager? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 21 21:31:42 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 17:31:42 -0400 Subject: Making konqueror un-never-remember passwords In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705190543p22b3804end926bf293a52365a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705190543p22b3804end926bf293a52365a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46520FBE.2090502@utoronto.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > There are websites which are being ignored by konqueror and > kwalletmanager entirely. Nomatter what I do, a password is not stored > for particular websites. > > For those particular websites, when I logged in and was prompted to > store the password, I accidentally chose "never for this site". > > How do I undo this? I see no feature in kwalletmanager or konqueror. vi ~/.kde/share/apps/khtml/formcompletions should do the trick. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 21 23:20:36 2007 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 19:20:36 -0400 Subject: fan noise on imac g5 rev C Message-ID: <61e9e2b10705211620v2fe29760vc45323bf3ca2c281@mail.gmail.com> I am trying to setup Debian 4.0 on a iMac G5 rev C, and one of the problems I am experiencing is trying to control fan noise... after the system boots, the thermal fans startup full blast and continue at jet noise intensity for the duration. There is a lot of dated information online about getting Linux working on PowerPC, and I am trying to sort out what is required and what is not... Some background: - iMac g5 rev C (its the one with the iSight camera built-in) - running Debian 4.0r0 with the 2.6.18-4-powerpc64 kernel - have the windfarm* modules configured to load at boot - /sys/devices/platform/windfarm.0 is populated with (I believe) all the necessary files: cpu-current, cpu-fan, cpu-power, cpu-temp, cpu-voltage, cpufreq-clamp Now, I do get an error message about windfarm in /var/log/messages: kernel: windfarm: Failed to create SMU RPM fan fan ...which a search online only reveals 2 entries, neither of which sheds light on the problem that points to a fix. Now I have discovered a manual way to temporarily shut off the fan... if I do a simple reading of: cat /sys/devices/platform/windfarm.0/cpu-temp ... it turns off the fan! But only for about a minute, before it starts up again at full roar... I found this thread: http://groups.google.ca/group/linux.debian.ports.powerpc/browse_thread/thread/ae06342275575307/314778cde8e40c41?lnk=st&q=&rnum=3&hl=en#314778cde8e40c41 ...where one of the correspondents posted a script to read the cpu-temp file and shut the fan off... but I don't really understand how it works. How do you set things like maximum temp or how long the fans will run? Here is the script: #! /bin/sh # Fr?d?ric Grosshans (c) 2006 # GPL v2 or later TempFile'/sys/devices/platform/windfarm.0/cpu_temp' RepeatTime MaxTemp` CoolingTime 0 #Above one minute (?) needed to let the fans start while true do # Reading the cpu_temp file is enough to stop the fans # for a while ... read Tmp< $TempFile; echo $(date) ${Tmp%%\.*} while [ ${Tmp%%\.*} -le $MaxTemp ] do sleep $RepeatTime; read Tmp< $TempFile; echo $(date) ${Tmp} done echo $(date) "Cooling !" #But on sometime has to let them run sleep $CoolingTime done I guess what I am looking for is a script that will periodically read that cpu-temp file so that the fans stay off *unless* it reaches some maximum temp, upon which the fans will kick in until it reaches some minimum temp or duration of running time. Is this something that you would use cron to run? Thanks for any help... These fans are making me deaf! :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 02:21:56 2007 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 22:21:56 -0400 Subject: fan noise on imac g5 rev C In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10705211620v2fe29760vc45323bf3ca2c281-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10705211620v2fe29760vc45323bf3ca2c281@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070522022156.GA1301@md5.ca> Daniel Armstrong(dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org)@Mon, May 21, 2007 at 07:20:36PM -0400: > I guess what I am looking for is a script that will periodically read > that cpu-temp file so that the fans stay off *unless* it reaches some > maximum temp, upon which the fans will kick in until it reaches some > minimum temp or duration of running time. Is this something that you > would use cron to run? No, you would run this script in daemon mode or in background, it loops forever. There is a patch in the first node on the google thread you posted, I belive it is a pre-release patch from development tree to deal with these incompatible fans. reading from 2.6.17 sources: /* We use the name & location here the same way we do for SMU sensors, * see the comment in windfarm_smu_sensors.c. The locations are a bit * less consistent here between the iMac and the desktop models, but * that is good enough for our needs for now at least. * * One problem though is that Apple seem to be inconsistent with case * and the kernel doesn't have strcasecmp =P */ So there. :) Probably you can patch the kernel, or try newer binary kernel versions from your distributions. However in general I would recommend that you'd learn to compile your own kernel. The shortcut here is you can find kernel .config file for the distribution configuration copy it in to source tree and run make oldconfig && make bzImage && make modules && make modules_install and then copy the kernel into the boot directory. hth, p. -- Create like God. Command like a King. Work like a Slave. http://arslogic.com | http://arslogic.com/resume.pdf direct: 416-564-5255 | fax: 416-596-0128 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 03:21:31 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 23:21:31 -0400 Subject: Finding out if you're inside "script" Message-ID: <1f13df280705212021p9c5ce61w38d745dc58f0ea20@mail.gmail.com> I'm looking at updating the "Bash Prompt HOWTO," and one thing that's frustrated me is the ability to detect whether or not you're inside a "script" shell. Being able to determine if you're inside "screen" is useful, particularly if you don't use a status bar, because you can have the prompt modify itself if it detects either TERM=screen or STY={something}. Fairly easy because "screen" changes the environment. But inside "script" the only settings that change are SHLVL and PPID. To use SHLVL you'd have to start laying breadcrumbs, and that would be very tricky ... It's useful though because a colourized prompt is particularly ugly in the typescript - there are ways around that, but better to have a plain text prompt. This might work: if [ "$(ps -Ao pid,comm | grep $PPID | awk '{print $2}')" = "script" ] then # Change prompt appropriately fi Would this be a reliable way to determine if the shell was the child of a "script" command? -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 03:55:02 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 23:55:02 -0400 Subject: Finding out if you're inside "script" In-Reply-To: <1f13df280705212021p9c5ce61w38d745dc58f0ea20-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280705212021p9c5ce61w38d745dc58f0ea20@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420705212055y75ffd87xa6f26f42a60f6a1d@mail.gmail.com> My /etc/bash/bashrc has this: # Test for an interactive shell. There is no need to set anything # past this point for scp and rcp, and it's important to refrain from # outputting anything in those cases. if [[ $- != *i* ]] ; then # Shell is non-interactive. Be done now! return fi Does that help you? I realize you're not worried about things like scp and rcp, but maybe "script" shells are marked non-interactive? Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 04:16:52 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 00:16:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Finding out if you're inside "script" In-Reply-To: <1f13df280705212021p9c5ce61w38d745dc58f0ea20-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280705212021p9c5ce61w38d745dc58f0ea20@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 May 2007, Giles Orr wrote: > I'm looking at updating the "Bash Prompt HOWTO," and one thing that's > frustrated me is the ability to detect whether or not you're inside a > "script" shell. Being able to determine if you're inside "screen" is > useful, particularly if you don't use a status bar, because you can > have the prompt modify itself if it detects either TERM=screen or > STY={something}. Fairly easy because "screen" changes the > environment. But inside "script" the only settings that change are > SHLVL and PPID. To use SHLVL you'd have to start laying breadcrumbs, > and that would be very tricky ... It's useful though because a > colourized prompt is particularly ugly in the typescript - there are > ways around that, but better to have a plain text prompt. > > This might work: > > if [ "$(ps -Ao pid,comm | grep $PPID | awk '{print $2}')" = "script" ] > then > # Change prompt appropriately > fi > > Would this be a reliable way to determine if the shell was the child > of a "script" command? case $(ps -ocomm= "$PPID") in script) echo Inside script ;; *) echo Not a \"script\" shell ;; esac -- Chris F.A. Johnson ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 04:04:06 2007 From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 00:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Finding out if you're inside "script" Message-ID: <200705220404.l4M4465S068360@localhost.generalconcepts.com> | This might work: | | if [ "$(ps -Ao pid,comm | grep $PPID | awk '{print $2}')" = "script" ] | then | # Change prompt appropriately | fi | | Would this be a reliable way to determine if the shell was the child | of a "script" command? What about looking at /proc/$PPID/exe? e.g. ls -l /proc/$PPID/exe | grep /script Or change your ps command to "ps -p $PPID -o pid,comm"? Or something with "lsof" and look for script, such as "lsof `tty`" or "lsof -p $PPID"? What happens if you're several levels deep, and some ancestor is script? Looking at $PPID probably won't help there. Or do you also "export UNDER_SCRIPT=yes" to help with those cases? Seems a shame that script(1) doesn't set some environment variable. On the other hand, script(1) is often used to show what normally happens, and if you do something differently under script(1), do you invoke a "heisenbug"? At UWaterloo, many years ago, Dan Salomon wrote a scriptfix(1) command that removes escape sequences, and backspaces, and carriage returns and such from script(1) output files. I often find that the post-process approach suits me well. Hope that helps! John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 14:56:04 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 10:56:04 -0400 Subject: fan noise on imac g5 rev C In-Reply-To: <20070522022156.GA1301-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10705211620v2fe29760vc45323bf3ca2c281@mail.gmail.com> <20070522022156.GA1301@md5.ca> Message-ID: <20070522145604.GK10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 21, 2007 at 10:21:56PM -0400, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > No, you would run this script in daemon mode or in background, it loops forever. > There is a patch in the first node on the google thread you posted, I belive it is a pre-release patch from development tree to deal with these incompatible fans. reading from 2.6.17 sources: > > /* We use the name & location here the same way we do for SMU sensors, > * see the comment in windfarm_smu_sensors.c. The locations are a bit > * less consistent here between the iMac and the desktop models, but > * that is good enough for our needs for now at least. > * > * One problem though is that Apple seem to be inconsistent with case > * and the kernel doesn't have strcasecmp =P > */ > So there. :) Probably you can patch the kernel, or try newer binary kernel versions from your distributions. However in general I would recommend that you'd learn to compile your own kernel. The shortcut here is you can find kernel .config file for the distribution configuration copy it in to source tree and run make oldconfig && make bzImage && make modules && make modules_install and then copy the kernel into the boot directory. Or better yet get the source to the debian package, add your patch and build it properly the debian way. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 17:06:42 2007 From: fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (asdf) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 10:06:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers Message-ID: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hello, I wanted to find out if any of the following GTA high-speed DSL providers are known to be Linux/BSD friendly (i.e. Linux/BSD routers work well even though they may not be officially supported): Acanac http://acanac.ca/ 3Web http://www.get3web.com/ Inter.Net http://www.ca.inter.net/ and also wanted to get recommendations from TLUG members on which (non-Bell) DSL provider to choose. Is anyone on this list using one of the above ISPs? What's your experience been like? I am currently using Rogers cable internet but recently have been experiencing very bad download and upload speeds and am ready to try DSL! I am looking to avoid Bell and instead want to try one of the smaller ISPs/providers who seem to be offering speeds similar to Bell but at cheaper rates. Never having used DSL before, I also want to find out how well the PPPoE client in Linux (and for those of you have experience with it, in OpenBSD and in FreeBSD) works . One of the reasons I've stuck with Rogers cable internet for so long is that the AccessManager (PPPoE) software was never required and setting up a Linux/BSD router/firewall was simple and easy. Thanks! Regards, Salman Ahmed ____________________________________________________________________________________ 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 17:25:42 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 13:25:42 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <20070522170642.89470.qmail-/y1UNm8Z7RKB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 22, 2007 at 10:06:42AM -0700, asdf wrote: > I wanted to find out if any of the following GTA high-speed DSL providers are known > to be Linux/BSD friendly (i.e. Linux/BSD routers work well even though they may not > be officially supported): > > Acanac http://acanac.ca/ > 3Web http://www.get3web.com/ > Inter.Net http://www.ca.inter.net/ > > and also wanted to get recommendations from TLUG members on which (non-Bell) DSL > provider to choose. Is anyone on this list using one of the above ISPs? What's your > experience been like? > > I am currently using Rogers cable internet but recently have been experiencing very > bad download and upload speeds and am ready to try DSL! I am looking to avoid Bell > and instead want to try one of the smaller ISPs/providers who seem to be offering > speeds similar to Bell but at cheaper rates. > > Never having used DSL before, I also want to find out how well the PPPoE client in > Linux (and for those of you have experience with it, in OpenBSD and in FreeBSD) > works . One of the reasons I've stuck with Rogers cable internet for so long is that > the AccessManager (PPPoE) software was never required and setting up a Linux/BSD > router/firewall was simple and easy. PPPoE on linux works perfectly and is rather trivial to setup. Of course if it uses PPPoE it really is Bell DSL systems you are going through, although the ISP providing the actual bandwidth to the internet is not Bell (usually at least). I am currently considering going to DSL from rogers as well. So far out of the suggestions I have had, teksavvy looks promising. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 17:37:00 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 13:37:00 -0400 Subject: help with subversion merging Message-ID: <20070522173700.GA19930@watson-wilson.ca> I'm having a problem understanding svn merges. Consider this repository layout myrepo/branches/development/ myrepo/trunk/ I want to merge the development branch at revision 117 to the head of trunk. I tried this: svn co svn+ssh://svn/home/svn/myrepo cd myrepo/trunk svn merge --dry-run svn+ssh://svn/home/svn/myrepo/branches/development at 117 svn+ssh://svn/home/svn/myrepo/trunk at HEAD A collection of 'Skipped missing target' messages are returned. What have I missed? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 18 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 19:03:59 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 15:03:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <20070522170642.89470.qmail-/y1UNm8Z7RKB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <921216.76646.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- asdf wrote: > Hello, > > I wanted to find out if any of the following GTA > high-speed DSL providers are known > to be Linux/BSD friendly (i.e. Linux/BSD routers > work well even though they may not > be officially supported): > > Acanac http://acanac.ca/ > 3Web http://www.get3web.com/ > Inter.Net http://www.ca.inter.net/ > > and also wanted to get recommendations from TLUG > members on which (non-Bell) DSL > provider to choose. Is anyone on this list using one > of the above ISPs? What's your > experience been like? > > I am currently using Rogers cable internet but > recently have been experiencing very > bad download and upload speeds and am ready to try > DSL! I am looking to avoid Bell > and instead want to try one of the smaller > ISPs/providers who seem to be offering > speeds similar to Bell but at cheaper rates. > > Never having used DSL before, I also want to find > out how well the PPPoE client in > Linux (and for those of you have experience with it, > in OpenBSD and in FreeBSD) > works . One of the reasons I've stuck with Rogers > cable internet for so long is that > the AccessManager (PPPoE) software was never > required and setting up a Linux/BSD > router/firewall was simple and easy. > > Thanks! > Regards, > > > Salman Ahmed Have a word with Dave Gilbert (who I am cc'ing), he is the former technical head of a small local DSL offering ISP. Dave is also a regular at the Unix Unanimous user group meetings (so more of a BSD guy than Linux), he should be happy to offer advice on the BSD friendly ISPs... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 21:13:36 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:13:36 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy Message-ID: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> I know this post is relatively off-topic for many on the list, but I do believe it has value for this community... The URL below contains an excerpt from a book entitled "The Assault on Reason" by Al Gore. The book is due out next year (as I understand it) and contains commentary similar to that which I've posted here and in other Canadian FOSS forums over the last couple of years. http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1622015-1,00.html While the book isn't out yet, I'd be curious to hear what reviews/thoughts tluggers might have for this particular excerpt. My personal preference would be to discuss on-list (to encourage valuable communication amongst a primarily Canadian readership) but at the same time, I'm not connected to the administration of TLUG either. Please use your judgment (and respect that of the GTALUG administration) and, as always, feel free to send comments to me directly. Thanks in advance and take care, - Scott. -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 21:40:13 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:40:13 -0400 Subject: Finding out if you're inside "script" In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df280705212021p9c5ce61w38d745dc58f0ea20@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280705221440o692eaa0o4eeedd16c7c80cf1@mail.gmail.com> On 5/22/07, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Mon, 21 May 2007, Giles Orr wrote: > > I'm looking at updating the "Bash Prompt HOWTO," and one thing that's > > frustrated me is the ability to detect whether or not you're inside a > > "script" shell. Being able to determine if you're inside "screen" is > > useful, particularly if you don't use a status bar, because you can > > have the prompt modify itself if it detects either TERM=screen or > > STY={something}. Fairly easy because "screen" changes the > > environment. But inside "script" the only settings that change are > > SHLVL and PPID. [SNIP] > case $(ps -ocomm= "$PPID") in > script) echo Inside script ;; > *) echo Not a \"script\" shell ;; > esac Thanks everyone who replied to this, all the suggestions are helpful. The "case" suggestion above is probably what I'll try in prompt(s), as it will allow for detection of "script," "screen," "bash" (ie. multiple shell levels, although there are other ways to find that), and other possible parents as well. As for people who have multiple levels of subshells with "script" as a parent as someone suggested ... At that point you're doing something fairly complex and either you know exactly what you're doing or you're very, very confused - either way, I don't think a specialised prompt will help you. :-) The detection routine for that situation would probably be too complex to be worth it. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 22:30:28 2007 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 18:30:28 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <20070522172542.GM10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 5/22/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > PPPoE on linux works perfectly and is rather trivial to setup. > > Of course if it uses PPPoE it really is Bell DSL systems you are going > through, although the ISP providing the actual bandwidth to the internet > is not Bell (usually at least). Some ISP's have been buying/leasing up actual space in CO's around the GTA, but because they already have PPPoE related infrastructure (RADIUS, etc) they've continued to use it. So it's now quite possible to have a PPPoE DSL connection and not be connecting to Bell on any level. > I am currently considering going to DSL from rogers as well. So far out > of the suggestions I have had, teksavvy looks promising. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 22:37:09 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 18:37:09 -0400 Subject: OT: Washer and Dryer for free, anyone want? Message-ID: <46537095.10501@alteeve.com> Hi all, Nope, they don't run on Linux, thusly this is grossly off topic. In turn, please reply to me directly (mkelly-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org). I've got a normal-sized washer and dryer. I had picked them up for my b/f's mom, but she can't fit them in (she needs an apartment-sized unit). So I was wondering if anyone here might be able to use them? If so, and if you can pick them up (in Oakville), bonus! If not, I can bring them to pretty much anywhere in the GTA. Thanks all and sorry for the OT post! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 22:40:17 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 18:40:17 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <46537151.9090202@rogers.com> Michael MacLeod wrote: > On 5/22/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> PPPoE on linux works perfectly and is rather trivial to setup. >> >> Of course if it uses PPPoE it really is Bell DSL systems you are going >> through, although the ISP providing the actual bandwidth to the internet >> is not Bell (usually at least). > > Some ISP's have been buying/leasing up actual space in CO's around the > GTA, but because they already have PPPoE related infrastructure > (RADIUS, etc) they've continued to use it. So it's now quite possible > to have a PPPoE DSL connection and not be connecting to Bell on any > level. > While many ISP's do rent space in a Bell CO, they still connect to Bell cables, so you're not likely to be completely free of Bell. Fortunately, the part of Bell that looks after cables etc., is far more competent than Sympatico. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 22:51:57 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 18:51:57 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks a lot for sharing the link. What do we have here? Al Gore, dryres and washers? :) But thats what I want to read on this list as well. zb. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 22:56:56 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 18:56:56 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0705221556h34e68f31hfe1e5aa73a7e7120@mail.gmail.com> On 5/22/07, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Thanks a lot for sharing the link. > > What do we have here? Al Gore, dryres and washers? :) But thats what I want > to read on this list as well. Good to hear from you ZB. It's been a long time and I'm glad to hear you're still around. Lol. Al Gore, Washers & Dryers Rejoice! (I just send MK a comment about the washer & dryer) In all seriousness though, I do think off-topic messages have a place in LUG communications; for me LUG's represent the front-line between the general populace and techno-geeks. =) -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 23:29:45 2007 From: fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (asdf) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 16:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: help with subversion merging In-Reply-To: <20070522173700.GA19930-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522173700.GA19930@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070522232945.10125.qmail@web51805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Neil Watson wrote: > I'm having a problem understanding svn merges. Consider this repository > layout > > myrepo/branches/development/ > myrepo/trunk/ > > I want to merge the development branch at revision 117 to the head of > trunk. I tried this: > > svn co svn+ssh://svn/home/svn/myrepo > cd myrepo/trunk > svn merge --dry-run svn+ssh://svn/home/svn/myrepo/branches/development at 117 > svn+ssh://svn/home/svn/myrepo/trunk at HEAD > > A collection of 'Skipped missing target' messages are returned. > > What have I missed? > I find branch merges quite confusing so what I normally do is: (1) first identify what revisions I want to merge to the destination. These can include single revisions or ranges of revisions (2) merge each revision or range of revisions one by one to the destination. This makes it easier for me to understand what I am doing! With your specific case above, here's what I would do assuming that you want to merge the changes in branches/development that resulted in revision 117 to trunk: (1) Make sure that your trunk WC (working copy) is at the HEAD rev: cd myrepo/trunk svn up (2) Do the merge: svn merge -r 116:117 myrepo/branches/development/ . (3) If the merge was successful and merged in the changes that you wanted, check it in: svn ci -m "Merge from branches/development at r117 to trunk" (I left out your repository URLs to keep the text above short). In case step (2) did not complete successfully you could always "svn revert" your trunk WC to undo any unwanted merges or you could just use the --dry-run option to preview the merge operation. Also, your merging success depends on the common ancestry between branches/development and trunk i.e. there must be some common files/folders/projects/etc. at the root level of both branches/development/ and trunk/ for the merge to succeed. Otherwise I think you'll see the 'Skipped missing target' messages that you saw first. Another point worth mentioning is that you were attempting to merge directly from a repository URL to another repository URL directly i.e. without doing the merge on a WC first. I don't know if that is even supposed to work as I have always understood merging to be done on a WC first so that the merge can first be tested and then committed back to the repository once satisfactory. Here is a post from the svn-users mailing list that I've saved that explains branch merging very well: http://svn.haxx.se/users/archive-2006-08/0675.shtml I just checked the Subversion book and it does indeed confirm that a merge operation _has to_ be applied to a local WC and cannot be applied directly to a repository location: http://svnbook.red-bean.com/nightly/en/svn-book.html#svn.branchmerge.copychanges.keyconcept Hope this helps somewhat. Let me know how you make out. Cheers, Salman Ahmed ____________________________________________________________________________________Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/index.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 23:54:36 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 19:54:36 -0400 Subject: help with subversion merging In-Reply-To: <20070522232945.10125.qmail-4xim6713zGWB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522232945.10125.qmail@web51805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1179878076.14988.77.camel@stan64.site> just watched Linus's Google talk video on GIT, he says if you use svn (or cvs) and especial merge, you are "ugly and stupid!" well thats what Torvalds says any ways. He did a good sales pitch on GIT, I wonder if it really is as good as he says. He claims cvs/svn are just plain broken and should never be used, etc,etc,etc, this doesn't help your question, but I just thought you'd like to know what Linus thinks of you!. I use svn, but I am going to give GIT a try , I think he might be on to something ... well either that or he is "on" something. -tl On Tue, 2007-05-22 at 16:29 -0700, asdf wrote: > --- Neil Watson wrote: > > > I'm having a problem understanding svn merges. Consider this repository > > layout > > > > myrepo/branches/development/ > > myrepo/trunk/ > > > > I want to merge the development branch at revision 117 to the head of > > trunk. I tried this: > > > > svn co svn+ssh://svn/home/svn/myrepo > > cd myrepo/trunk > > svn merge --dry-run svn+ssh://svn/home/svn/myrepo/branches/development at 117 > > svn+ssh://svn/home/svn/myrepo/trunk at HEAD > > > > A collection of 'Skipped missing target' messages are returned. > > > > What have I missed? > > > > I find branch merges quite confusing so what I normally do is: > > (1) first identify what revisions I want to merge to the destination. These can > include single revisions or ranges of revisions > (2) merge each revision or range of revisions one by one to the destination. This > makes it easier for me to understand what I am doing! > > With your specific case above, here's what I would do assuming that you want to > merge the changes in branches/development that resulted in revision 117 to trunk: > > (1) Make sure that your trunk WC (working copy) is at the HEAD rev: > cd myrepo/trunk > svn up > > (2) Do the merge: > svn merge -r 116:117 myrepo/branches/development/ . > > (3) If the merge was successful and merged in the changes that you wanted, check it > in: > svn ci -m "Merge from branches/development at r117 to trunk" > > (I left out your repository URLs to keep the text above short). In case step (2) did > not complete successfully you could always "svn revert" your trunk WC to undo any > unwanted merges or you could just use the --dry-run option to preview the merge > operation. > > Also, your merging success depends on the common ancestry between > branches/development and trunk i.e. there must be some common > files/folders/projects/etc. at the root level of both branches/development/ and > trunk/ for the merge to succeed. Otherwise I think you'll see the 'Skipped missing > target' messages that you saw first. > > Another point worth mentioning is that you were attempting to merge directly from a > repository URL to another repository URL directly i.e. without doing the merge on a > WC first. I don't know if that is even supposed to work as I have always understood > merging to be done on a WC first so that the merge can first be tested and then > committed back to the repository once satisfactory. > > Here is a post from the svn-users mailing list that I've saved that explains branch > merging very well: > > http://svn.haxx.se/users/archive-2006-08/0675.shtml > > I just checked the Subversion book and it does indeed confirm that a merge operation > _has to_ be applied to a local WC and cannot be applied directly to a repository > location: > > http://svnbook.red-bean.com/nightly/en/svn-book.html#svn.branchmerge.copychanges.keyconcept > > Hope this helps somewhat. Let me know how you make out. > Cheers, > > > Salman Ahmed > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. > http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/index.php > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 23:57:59 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 19:57:59 -0400 Subject: help with subversion merging In-Reply-To: <20070522232945.10125.qmail-4xim6713zGWB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522232945.10125.qmail@web51805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1179878279.14988.79.camel@stan64.site> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok8 here is Linus's talk on GIT if your interested. -tl On Tue, 2007-05-22 at 16:29 -0700, asdf wrote: > --- Neil Watson wrote: > > > I'm having a problem understanding svn merges. Consider this repository > > layout > > > > myrepo/branches/development/ > > myrepo/trunk/ > > > > I want to merge the development branch at revision 117 to the head of > > trunk. I tried this: > > > > svn co svn+ssh://svn/home/svn/myrepo > > cd myrepo/trunk > > svn merge --dry-run svn+ssh://svn/home/svn/myrepo/branches/development at 117 > > svn+ssh://svn/home/svn/myrepo/trunk at HEAD > > > > A collection of 'Skipped missing target' messages are returned. > > > > What have I missed? > > > > I find branch merges quite confusing so what I normally do is: > > (1) first identify what revisions I want to merge to the destination. These can > include single revisions or ranges of revisions > (2) merge each revision or range of revisions one by one to the destination. This > makes it easier for me to understand what I am doing! > > With your specific case above, here's what I would do assuming that you want to > merge the changes in branches/development that resulted in revision 117 to trunk: > > (1) Make sure that your trunk WC (working copy) is at the HEAD rev: > cd myrepo/trunk > svn up > > (2) Do the merge: > svn merge -r 116:117 myrepo/branches/development/ . > > (3) If the merge was successful and merged in the changes that you wanted, check it > in: > svn ci -m "Merge from branches/development at r117 to trunk" > > (I left out your repository URLs to keep the text above short). In case step (2) did > not complete successfully you could always "svn revert" your trunk WC to undo any > unwanted merges or you could just use the --dry-run option to preview the merge > operation. > > Also, your merging success depends on the common ancestry between > branches/development and trunk i.e. there must be some common > files/folders/projects/etc. at the root level of both branches/development/ and > trunk/ for the merge to succeed. Otherwise I think you'll see the 'Skipped missing > target' messages that you saw first. > > Another point worth mentioning is that you were attempting to merge directly from a > repository URL to another repository URL directly i.e. without doing the merge on a > WC first. I don't know if that is even supposed to work as I have always understood > merging to be done on a WC first so that the merge can first be tested and then > committed back to the repository once satisfactory. > > Here is a post from the svn-users mailing list that I've saved that explains branch > merging very well: > > http://svn.haxx.se/users/archive-2006-08/0675.shtml > > I just checked the Subversion book and it does indeed confirm that a merge operation > _has to_ be applied to a local WC and cannot be applied directly to a repository > location: > > http://svnbook.red-bean.com/nightly/en/svn-book.html#svn.branchmerge.copychanges.keyconcept > > Hope this helps somewhat. Let me know how you make out. > Cheers, > > > Salman Ahmed > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. > http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/index.php > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 02:54:09 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 22:54:09 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070522225409.4ec00a86@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Scott Elcomb left a post-it on the fridge: > I know this post is relatively off-topic for many on the list, but I > do believe it has value for this community... > > The URL below contains an excerpt from a book entitled "The Assault on > Reason" by Al Gore. The book is due out next year (as I understand it) > and contains commentary similar to that which I've posted here and in > other Canadian FOSS forums over the last couple of years. > > http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1622015-1,00.html > > While the book isn't out yet, I'd be curious to hear what > reviews/thoughts tluggers might have for this particular excerpt. My > personal preference would be to discuss on-list (to encourage valuable > communication amongst a primarily Canadian readership) but at the same > time, I'm not connected to the administration of TLUG either. Please > use your judgment (and respect that of the GTALUG administration) and, > as always, feel free to send comments to me directly. Cool! Now to reassert myself as the list's resident Crazy. Hrm, well, after seeing An Inconvenient Truth and watching Gore on shows like The Daily Show, it's hard not to like the guy, and believe that he's basically a decent person. Then I remember how he answered the question about why he and Clinton bombed a pharmaceuticals factory in Sudan, leading to the preventable deaths of millions and eventually the chaos that we are seeing today. That, and many other things that Gore presided over as VP, were certainly much more than 'assaults on reason'. Okay, let bygones be bygones, right? Seeing what Gore has to say in this excerpt, I can't help but wonder what the heck the rest of the book is about. Not that I don't doubt it's all perfectly valid, it's just not terribly original in terms of the concept, from what I can see. It sounds much like a book by Ben Agger, 'The Decline of Discourse', and I'm sure many other books. Noam Chomsky has written extensively on the idea that fact-based approaches to discourse are and have been under attack for quite some time, and that the twentieth century has merely seen the escalation of the 'manufacturing of consent'. The only evidence that Gore has made an attempt at anything different is in passages such as this: "At first I thought the exhaustive, nonstop coverage of the O.J. Simpson trial was just an unfortunate excess?an unwelcome departure from the normal good sense and judgment of our television news media. Now we know that it was merely an early example of a new pattern of serial obsessions that periodically take over the airwaves for weeks at a time: the Michael Jackson trial and the Robert Blake trial, the Laci Peterson tragedy and the Chandra Levy tragedy, Britney and KFed, Lindsay and Paris and Nicole." Of course, he does not go further than to pooh-pooh the media, never seeming to notice that all of the media outlets which engage in this kind of behaviour, and who dominate the 'mainstream' diet, are owned by a small cadre of dedicated neo-con political operatives who have a measurable interest in numbing the public mind with crap about Paris Hilton. Then I see something that absolutely delights me whenever it pops up: Al Gore talking about the internet. Wheeeeeeee! Okay, yes, bloggers and sites like Slate and Alternet are overtaking TV news when it comes to drawing the attention of middle class post-literate dweebs like me, but the people who have been truly left out of the democratic process, if our process can even legitimately be called that, are also the people who are highly unlikely to have a broadband connection; and even if they are connected, what good is it going to do them when they've been deliberately disenfranchised on voting day, again a concept with which Gore should be very very familiar. The revolution will be online, quite probably, but Al Gore will have nothing to do with it. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Gypsy robot: You want to die? Bender: No, I wanna live! There's still too many things I don't own. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 03:38:36 2007 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 23:38:36 -0400 Subject: fan noise on imac g5 rev C In-Reply-To: <20070522022156.GA1301-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10705211620v2fe29760vc45323bf3ca2c281@mail.gmail.com> <20070522022156.GA1301@md5.ca> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10705222038u6e63ce1dpd6f8094b7d295b57@mail.gmail.com> On 5/21/07, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > Daniel Armstrong(dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org)@Mon, May 21, 2007 at 07:20:36PM -0400: > > I guess what I am looking for is a script that will periodically read > > that cpu-temp file so that the fans stay off *unless* it reaches some > > maximum temp, upon which the fans will kick in until it reaches some > > minimum temp or duration of running time. Is this something that you > > would use cron to run? > > No, you would run this script in daemon mode or in background, it loops forever. > There is a patch in the first node on the google thread you posted, I belive it is a pre-release patch from development tree to deal with these incompatible fans. reading from 2.6.17 sources: > Thanks for the hint! I ended up installing Ubuntu-7.04-PPC on this iMac, which came with the 2.6.20-15-powerpc64-smp kernel... and even on this newer kernel the thermal fan runs at a full and noisy clip... *until* I cat the cpu-temp file. This appears to be a known problem with this particular model of iMac (G5 rev C), and I don't think a patch actually exists that fixes it. Maybe when I learn a bit about shell-scripting I will fashion something more elaborate... but in the meantime I simply setup a cronjob to: cat /sys/devices/platform/windfarm.0/cpu-temp ...every minute and... it works... fans are quiet, my hearing is starting to return! :-) I monitor the temperature and it never appears to get above 62C max... most of the time it is several degrees less... I have compiled a few kernels before, but never went out and grabbed a patch and applied it to kernel source... I will have to investigate how to do that. Thanks again for the help... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 03:47:11 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 23:47:11 -0400 Subject: Making konqueror un-never-remember passwords In-Reply-To: <46520FBE.2090502-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705190543p22b3804end926bf293a52365a@mail.gmail.com> <46520FBE.2090502@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990705222047m615c822fv34ca22158eab85ae@mail.gmail.com> Marc: kwalletmanager was the first place I looked. No luck. Kevin: konqueror's password settings was the second place I looked. Also no luck. On 5/21/07, Jamon Camisso wrote: > vi ~/.kde/share/apps/khtml/formcompletions should do the trick. Aha, I see this: [NonPasswordStorableSites] Sites=(website) I have tested this, and have confirmed that this is indeed the right part of the right file to do what I want. Thank you very much. Boo to konqueror burying this! Now if only I could get alt- as my accesskey. =/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 03:55:47 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 23:55:47 -0400 Subject: checking a burned CD against an ISO Message-ID: <1e55af990705222055i4234e451i7d9420be6f407701@mail.gmail.com> Because of some odd issue with k3b not verifying a burned disk, I went ahead and explored a better way to compare the disk. Thanks to some earlier advice I already had the groundwork, but I wanted to make things a bit easier. So I came up with the following script. It seems to work fine - and both works and fails under the correct circumstances.. but is there anything which anyone here would change to make for less cutting-and-pasting or cleaner/happier code? ISO_FILENAME=pclinuxos-2007.iso MD5_FILENAME=pclinuxos-2007.md5sum DEVICE=/dev/dvd # SOURCE_MD5=`md5sum $ISO_FILENAME` SOURCE_MD5=`cat $MD5_FILENAME` # Remove the trailing filename SOURCE_MD5=`echo $SOURCE_MD5 | sed "s/$ISO_FILENAME$//"` FILESIZE=$(stat -c%s "$ISO_FILENAME") DISK_MD5=`dd if=$DEVICE | head -c $FILESIZE | md5sum` # Remove the trailing hyphon DISK_MD5=`echo $DISK_MD5 | sed "s/-$//"` echo "" echo "" echo "" if [ $SOURCE_MD5 = $DISK_MD5 ]; then echo "$ISO_FILENAME: OK" else echo "Sorry, your disk is not ok" echo "I checked $ISO_FILENAME against $MD5_FILENAME" echo "" echo "md5sum was $SOURCE_MD5" echo "cd sum was $DISK_MD5" fi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 04:09:49 2007 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 00:09:49 -0400 Subject: fan noise on imac g5 rev C In-Reply-To: <20070522145604.GK10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10705211620v2fe29760vc45323bf3ca2c281@mail.gmail.com> <20070522022156.GA1301@md5.ca> <20070522145604.GK10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10705222109k4d09392ag4f3e75f65f21765c@mail.gmail.com> On 5/22/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, May 21, 2007 at 10:21:56PM -0400, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > > So there. :) Probably you can patch the kernel, or try newer binary kernel versions from your distributions. However in general I would recommend that you'd learn to compile your own kernel. The shortcut here is you can find kernel .config file for the distribution configuration copy it in to source tree and run make oldconfig && make bzImage && make modules && make modules_install and then copy the kernel into the boot directory. > > Or better yet get the source to the debian package, add your patch and > build it properly the debian way. Yes... Debian has some nice tools for compiling kernels and getting your grub all squared away... I found the O'Reilly 'Linux Kernel in a Nutshell' online... the author has generously provided a tarball of PDFs of the full text for download under a Creative Commons license: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/gregkh/lkn/lkn_pdf.tar.bz2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 04:26:18 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 00:26:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: checking a burned CD against an ISO In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705222055i4234e451i7d9420be6f407701-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705222055i4234e451i7d9420be6f407701@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 May 2007, Sy Ali wrote: > Because of some odd issue with k3b not verifying a burned disk, I went > ahead and explored a better way to compare the disk. Thanks to some > earlier advice I already had the groundwork, but I wanted to make > things a bit easier. > > So I came up with the following script. > > It seems to work fine - and both works and fails under the correct > circumstances.. but is there anything which anyone here would change > to make for less cutting-and-pasting or cleaner/happier code? > > > ISO_FILENAME=pclinuxos-2007.iso > MD5_FILENAME=pclinuxos-2007.md5sum > DEVICE=/dev/dvd I'd use command-line parameters: ISO_FILENAME=$1 MD5_FILENAME=$2 > DEVICE=/dev/dvd > > # SOURCE_MD5=`md5sum $ISO_FILENAME` > SOURCE_MD5=`cat $MD5_FILENAME` No need for an external command: read SOURCE_MD5 < $MD5_FILENAME > # Remove the trailing filename > SOURCE_MD5=`echo $SOURCE_MD5 | sed "s/$ISO_FILENAME$//"` No need for an external command: SOURCE_MD5=${SOURCE_MD5%% *} Or combine both commands: read SOURCE_MD5 junk < "$MD5_FILENAME" > FILESIZE=$(stat -c%s "$ISO_FILENAME") > DISK_MD5=`dd if=$DEVICE | head -c $FILESIZE | md5sum` No need for more than one external command: DISK_MD5=$( md5sum "$DEVICE" ) > # Remove the trailing hyphon > DISK_MD5=`echo $DISK_MD5 | sed "s/-$//"` No need for an external command: DISK_MD5=${DISK_MD5%-} > echo "" > echo "" > echo "" Only one command is needed: printf "\n\n\n" > if [ $SOURCE_MD5 = $DISK_MD5 ]; then > echo "$ISO_FILENAME: OK" > else > echo "Sorry, your disk is not ok" > echo "I checked $ISO_FILENAME against $MD5_FILENAME" > echo "" > echo "md5sum was $SOURCE_MD5" > echo "cd sum was $DISK_MD5" > fi -- Chris F.A. Johnson ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 10:57:03 2007 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 06:57:03 -0400 Subject: NewTLUG Meeting - UNIX Timeline Poster Message-ID: At the NewTLUG meeting last night, I mentioned this poster you can get of the whole UNIX timeline, but I couldn't remember the URL. It's http://www.levenez.com/unix/ pm -- Paul Mora Registered Linux user #2065 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 13:18:25 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 09:18:25 -0400 Subject: Making konqueror un-never-remember passwords In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705222047m615c822fv34ca22158eab85ae-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705190543p22b3804end926bf293a52365a@mail.gmail.com> <46520FBE.2090502@utoronto.ca> <1e55af990705222047m615c822fv34ca22158eab85ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46543F21.50907@utoronto.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > Marc: kwalletmanager was the first place I looked. No luck. > > Kevin: konqueror's password settings was the second place I looked. > Also no luck. > > On 5/21/07, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> vi ~/.kde/share/apps/khtml/formcompletions should do the trick. > > Aha, I see this: > [NonPasswordStorableSites] > Sites=(website) > > I have tested this, and have confirmed that this is indeed the right > part of the right file to do what I want. > > Thank you very much. > > Boo to konqueror burying this! I found it by declining a unique site I hadn't visited in konqueror that required authentication. Then greped through .kde directory until I found that file. > Now if only I could get alt- as my accesskey. =/ No idea on that one. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 14:50:12 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 10:50:12 -0400 Subject: checking a burned CD against an ISO In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990705222055i4234e451i7d9420be6f407701@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070523145012.GN10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 23, 2007 at 12:26:18AM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > >FILESIZE=$(stat -c%s "$ISO_FILENAME") > >DISK_MD5=`dd if=$DEVICE | head -c $FILESIZE | md5sum` > > No need for more than one external command: > > DISK_MD5=$( md5sum "$DEVICE" ) Unless the linux kernel has somehow recently got a clue about reading optical media without trying to read past the end of the device, then that 'head' command is probably quite useful. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 14:53:43 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 10:53:43 -0400 Subject: help with subversion merging In-Reply-To: <1179878076.14988.77.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522232945.10125.qmail@web51805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1179878076.14988.77.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <20070523145343.GO10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 22, 2007 at 07:54:36PM -0400, tleslie wrote: > just watched Linus's Google talk video on GIT, > he says if you use svn (or cvs) and especial merge, > you are "ugly and stupid!" > well thats what Torvalds says any ways. He has a way with words doesn't he. > He did a good sales pitch on GIT, > I wonder if it really is as good as he says. > He claims cvs/svn are just plain broken and should never be used, > etc,etc,etc, > this doesn't help your question, but > I just thought you'd like to know what Linus thinks of you!. I have seen his opinions on CVS (I don't think I have met anyone that thinks CVS is good), but I didn't know he didn't liek svn. I know svn doesn't fit his way of working with the kernel, but that is all. > I use svn, but I am going to give GIT a try , I think he might be on to > something ... well either that or he is "on" something. git is a rather amazing system for working with the kernel and having lots of people working on their own trees with the ability to move around patch sets (commits), between trees. Not sure how it would work for other things. git bisect is certainly just amazing, but again I am not sure if that applies to that many other things. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 15:04:27 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 11:04:27 -0400 Subject: karaoke on ubuntu? Message-ID: <1179932667.6762.3.camel@localhost> hi folks, out of the blue there is a request from my household for karaoke on our ubuntu-based audio system. so: ok. i see there are some programs that do that -- pykaraoke in particular, and i see ultrastar-ng is in debian so it should build on ubuntu as well. but: where do i get songs? i had hoped htere was maybe an amarok plugin that would damp out vocal frequencies in music tracks while showing the lrics... but that doesn't seem to exist, at least as far as i can tell. so i guess i need some new music files from somewhere... has anyone else done this? any hints? thanks, matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 15:28:06 2007 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 11:28:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: checking a burned CD against an ISO In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705222055i4234e451i7d9420be6f407701-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705222055i4234e451i7d9420be6f407701@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I usually just use: readcd dev= f=- | diff -s - where is the scsi "scsibus,target,lun" and is the iso file. Try "man readcd" for more info. HTH JV On Tue, 22 May 2007, Sy Ali wrote: > Because of some odd issue with k3b not verifying a burned disk, I went > ahead and explored a better way to compare the disk. Thanks to some > earlier advice I already had the groundwork, but I wanted to make > things a bit easier. > > So I came up with the following script. > > It seems to work fine - and both works and fails under the correct > circumstances.. but is there anything which anyone here would change > to make for less cutting-and-pasting or cleaner/happier code? > > > ISO_FILENAME=pclinuxos-2007.iso > MD5_FILENAME=pclinuxos-2007.md5sum > DEVICE=/dev/dvd > > # SOURCE_MD5=`md5sum $ISO_FILENAME` > SOURCE_MD5=`cat $MD5_FILENAME` > # Remove the trailing filename > SOURCE_MD5=`echo $SOURCE_MD5 | sed "s/$ISO_FILENAME$//"` > > FILESIZE=$(stat -c%s "$ISO_FILENAME") > DISK_MD5=`dd if=$DEVICE | head -c $FILESIZE | md5sum` > # Remove the trailing hyphon > DISK_MD5=`echo $DISK_MD5 | sed "s/-$//"` > > echo "" > echo "" > echo "" > if [ $SOURCE_MD5 = $DISK_MD5 ]; then > echo "$ISO_FILENAME: OK" > else > echo "Sorry, your disk is not ok" > echo "I checked $ISO_FILENAME against $MD5_FILENAME" > echo "" > echo "md5sum was $SOURCE_MD5" > echo "cd sum was $DISK_MD5" > fi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 16:15:33 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 12:15:33 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <20070522225409.4ec00a86-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070522225409.4ec00a86@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0705230915q39ee970dwb37568d61f325583@mail.gmail.com> On 5/22/07, JoeHill wrote: > Scott Elcomb left a post-it on the fridge: I did? Cool! > > While the book isn't out yet, I'd be curious to hear what > > reviews/thoughts tluggers might have for this particular excerpt. My > > personal preference would be to discuss on-list (to encourage valuable > > communication amongst a primarily Canadian readership) but at the same > > time, I'm not connected to the administration of TLUG either. Please > > use your judgment (and respect that of the GTALUG administration) and, > > as always, feel free to send comments to me directly. > > Cool! Now to reassert myself as the list's resident Crazy. REASSERT: 200 OK. ;-) > Hrm, well, after seeing An Inconvenient Truth and watching Gore on shows like > The Daily Show, it's hard not to like the guy, and believe that he's basically a > decent person. > > Then I remember how he answered the question about why he and Clinton bombed a > pharmaceuticals factory in Sudan, leading to the preventable deaths of millions > and eventually the chaos that we are seeing today. That, and many other things > that Gore presided over as VP, were certainly much more than 'assaults on > reason'. Well, I'm not familiar (afaik) with that particular event, but I suppose as VP he would've had his hands in some ugly things. I was impressed with An Inconvenient Truth, but that's about the extent of what I know about him. > Okay, let bygones be bygones, right? > > Seeing what Gore has to say in this excerpt, I can't help but wonder what the > heck the rest of the book is about. Not that I don't doubt it's all perfectly > valid, it's just not terribly original in terms of the concept, from what I can > see. It sounds much like a book by Ben Agger, 'The Decline of Discourse', and > I'm sure many other books. > > Noam Chomsky has written extensively on the idea that fact-based approaches to > discourse are and have been under attack for quite some time, and that the > twentieth century has merely seen the escalation of the 'manufacturing of > consent'. Thanks for the additional references. I think I'd like to look around for some of these works. > Then I see something that absolutely delights me whenever it pops up: Al Gore > talking about the internet. Wheeeeeeee! > > Okay, yes, bloggers and sites like Slate and Alternet are overtaking TV news > when it comes to drawing the attention of middle class post-literate dweebs > like me, but the people who have been truly left out of the democratic process, > if our process can even legitimately be called that, are also the people who > are highly unlikely to have a broadband connection; and even if they are > connected, what good is it going to do them when they've been deliberately > disenfranchised on voting day, again a concept with which Gore should be very > very familiar. > > The revolution will be online, quite probably, but Al Gore will have nothing to > do with it. For the most part, I agree with you. It still leaves the problem of how effective TV advertising is though. Thanks for your thoughts Joe. Most appreciated. =) -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 16:36:56 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 12:36:56 -0400 Subject: karaoke on ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <1179932667.6762.3.camel@localhost> References: <1179932667.6762.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20070523163656.GP10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 23, 2007 at 11:04:27AM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > out of the blue there is a request from my household for karaoke on our > ubuntu-based audio system. > > so: ok. i see there are some programs that do that -- pykaraoke in > particular, and i see ultrastar-ng is in debian so it should build on > ubuntu as well. but: where do i get songs? i had hoped htere was > maybe an amarok plugin that would damp out vocal frequencies in music > tracks while showing the lrics... but that doesn't seem to exist, at > least as far as i can tell. so i guess i need some new music files from > somewhere... has anyone else done this? any hints? thanks, Well I think all those karaoke discs that you can actually buy are just VCD discs, so you could always just play those things if you had any. Trying to filter out the vocals can't possibly give a good result for the music. Of course there used to be midi files around with embedded lyrics, although the sound quality was only what you would expect from midi files and sometimes worse (due to bad arranging). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 16:51:56 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 12:51:56 -0400 Subject: karaoke on ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <20070523163656.GP10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1179932667.6762.3.camel@localhost> <20070523163656.GP10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4654712C.7030805@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 23, 2007 at 11:04:27AM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > >> out of the blue there is a request from my household for karaoke on our >> ubuntu-based audio system. >> >> so: ok. i see there are some programs that do that -- pykaraoke in >> particular, and i see ultrastar-ng is in debian so it should build on >> ubuntu as well. but: where do i get songs? i had hoped htere was >> maybe an amarok plugin that would damp out vocal frequencies in music >> tracks while showing the lrics... but that doesn't seem to exist, at >> least as far as i can tell. so i guess i need some new music files from >> somewhere... has anyone else done this? any hints? thanks, >> > > Well I think all those karaoke discs that you can actually buy are just > VCD discs, so you could always just play those things if you had any. > Trying to filter out the vocals can't possibly give a good result for > the music. > > Of course there used to be midi files around with embedded lyrics, > although the sound quality was only what you would expect from midi > files and sometimes worse (due to bad arranging). > Wasn't Karaoke developed as a means of torture? ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 17:13:36 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 13:13:36 -0400 Subject: karaoke on ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <4654712C.7030805-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1179932667.6762.3.camel@localhost> <20070523163656.GP10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4654712C.7030805@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1179940416.6762.8.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2007-23-05 at 12:51 -0400, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Wed, May 23, 2007 at 11:04:27AM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > > > >> out of the blue there is a request from my household for karaoke on our > >> ubuntu-based audio system. > >> > >> so: ok. i see there are some programs that do that -- pykaraoke in > >> particular, and i see ultrastar-ng is in debian so it should build on > >> ubuntu as well. but: where do i get songs? i had hoped htere was > >> maybe an amarok plugin that would damp out vocal frequencies in music > >> tracks while showing the lrics... but that doesn't seem to exist, at > >> least as far as i can tell. so i guess i need some new music files from > >> somewhere... has anyone else done this? any hints? thanks, > >> > > > > Well I think all those karaoke discs that you can actually buy are just > > VCD discs, so you could always just play those things if you had any. > > Trying to filter out the vocals can't possibly give a good result for > > the music. > > > > Of course there used to be midi files around with embedded lyrics, > > although the sound quality was only what you would expect from midi > > files and sometimes worse (due to bad arranging). > > > > Wasn't Karaoke developed as a means of torture? ;-) > of course -- it's one of those 'group torture' methods, like when they have kids shoot their peers when inducting them into the Lord's Resistance Army. but that doesn't mean it can't be done with Free Software.... matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 20:04:18 2007 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 16:04:18 -0400 Subject: why not use vesa driver as X default? Message-ID: Hi All, Based on some recent ubuntu installs where everything else "just worked" but X-windows (and the whole system) "just froze" I'm wondering why the drive in xorg.conf doesn't default to a more robust (if non-optimal) driver like vesa? There could always be a clear option to switch to a video card specific driver, but why not default to something that "just works" so as not to scare off new users? Thanks to the good suggestion from one of the experts on this list, switching to vesa solved the problem for me twice on two different computers-- but as a newby-level user I would never have known to try that without outside help, which is kind of the point I am trying to make. Probably there are some good reasons for the current defaults that I don't know about, but given all the recent posts about the "just works" aspects of linux I thought I would put that out as a question. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 20:05:31 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 20:05:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [OT] IP Problems in Windoze References: <4647939C.9129.1EF3FCA@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: So this windows defaulting to the next best open network may be a felony. At least in Michigan ? http://www.cnn.com Article (clip): 'Wifi freeloader gets nabbed' Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 20:52:57 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 16:52:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: checking a burned CD against an ISO In-Reply-To: <20070523145012.GN10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705222055i4234e451i7d9420be6f407701@mail.gmail.com> <20070523145012.GN10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 May 2007, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 23, 2007 at 12:26:18AM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >>> FILESIZE=$(stat -c%s "$ISO_FILENAME") >>> DISK_MD5=`dd if=$DEVICE | head -c $FILESIZE | md5sum` >> >> No need for more than one external command: >> >> DISK_MD5=$( md5sum "$DEVICE" ) > > Unless the linux kernel has somehow recently got a clue about reading > optical media without trying to read past the end of the device, then > that 'head' command is probably quite useful. I've been using 'md5sum "$DEVICE"' without any problem for years. -- Chris F.A. Johnson ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 21:23:32 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 17:23:32 -0400 Subject: karaoke on ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <1179940416.6762.8.camel@localhost> References: <1179932667.6762.3.camel@localhost> <20070523163656.GP10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4654712C.7030805@rogers.com> <1179940416.6762.8.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20070523172332.6ed0ea67.gstrom@teksavvy.com> On Wed, 23 May 2007 13:13:36 -0400 Matt Price wrote: > > > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Wasn't Karaoke developed as a means of torture? ;-) > > > > of course -- it's one of those 'group torture' methods, like when they > have kids shoot their peers when inducting them into the Lord's > Resistance Army. but that doesn't mean it can't be done with Free > Software.... Since you're looking for useful tips, this might be the most useful tip you can get. ;-> The Ear Plug Super Store http://earplugstore.stores.yahoo.net/ -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 22:18:51 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 18:18:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IT360 Show. Message-ID: <899751.2263.qm@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> As many on this mailing list saw/head most of the "big names" in the Linux industry did not show up at the IT360 show this year. Well, I found out at least part of the reason. In the last 48 hours I spoke briefly with a senior staff member of one of the major names in the industry (a firm big enough, and Linux friendly enough, that they are in a lawsuit with SCO :-) ). Any trade show decisions in Canada cross this person's desk. Bottom line I gather works as follows: - Cost of a trade show booth, furnishings, staff, swag, etc., about $100,000 - Total number of new sales they could DIRECTLY tie to the Linux World show over the last two years - ZERO. Now, had the show stayed Linux focused this person might have considered it, just for brand promotion. But with the loss of a Linux focus it just was not worth the money... This combined with the fact that it used to be the only way you could find out about new stuff was via trade shows, something that the web has changed.... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 00:59:38 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 20:59:38 -0400 Subject: IT360 Show. In-Reply-To: <899751.2263.qm-W5RQQfbthkOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <899751.2263.qm@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1179968378.8524.88.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-05-23 at 18:18 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Now, had the show stayed Linux focused this person > might have considered it, just for brand promotion. > But with the loss of a Linux focus it just was not > worth the money... > > This combined with the fact that it used to be the > only way you could find out about new stuff was via > trade shows, something that the web has changed.... That's exactly why we didn't exhibit this year as well. IT360's explanation on this matter was "this is our first year for this show... it takes time to build". -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 01:10:03 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 21:10:03 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705230915q39ee970dwb37568d61f325583-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070522225409.4ec00a86@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705230915q39ee970dwb37568d61f325583@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070523211003.7f3c4970@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Scott Elcomb left a post-it on the fridge: > On 5/22/07, JoeHill wrote: > > Scott Elcomb left a post-it on the fridge: > > I did? Cool! > > > > While the book isn't out yet, I'd be curious to hear what > > > reviews/thoughts tluggers might have for this particular excerpt. My > > > personal preference would be to discuss on-list (to encourage valuable > > > communication amongst a primarily Canadian readership) but at the same > > > time, I'm not connected to the administration of TLUG either. Please > > > use your judgment (and respect that of the GTALUG administration) and, > > > as always, feel free to send comments to me directly. > > > > Cool! Now to reassert myself as the list's resident Crazy. > > REASSERT: 200 OK. ;-) Okay, you got me :-) I know 200 ok from my apache logs, I think, but... > > Hrm, well, after seeing An Inconvenient Truth and watching Gore on shows > > like The Daily Show, it's hard not to like the guy, and believe that he's > > basically a decent person. > > > > Then I remember how he answered the question about why he and Clinton > > bombed a pharmaceuticals factory in Sudan, leading to the preventable > > deaths of millions and eventually the chaos that we are seeing today. That, > > and many other things that Gore presided over as VP, were certainly much > > more than 'assaults on reason'. > > Well, I'm not familiar (afaik) with that particular event, but I > suppose as VP he would've had his hands in some ugly things. I was > impressed with An Inconvenient Truth, but that's about the extent of > what I know about him. > > > Okay, let bygones be bygones, right? > > > > Seeing what Gore has to say in this excerpt, I can't help but wonder what > > the heck the rest of the book is about. Not that I don't doubt it's all > > perfectly valid, it's just not terribly original in terms of the concept, > > from what I can see. It sounds much like a book by Ben Agger, 'The Decline > > of Discourse', and I'm sure many other books. > > > > Noam Chomsky has written extensively on the idea that fact-based approaches > > to discourse are and have been under attack for quite some time, and that > > the twentieth century has merely seen the escalation of the 'manufacturing > > of consent'. > > Thanks for the additional references. I think I'd like to look around > for some of these works. Oh, yeah. If this excerpt from Gore's book caught your eye, Manufacturing Consent might be a real trip. Was just looking at Wikipedia's entry for Manufacturing Consent, apparently I just missed a conference at University of Windsor...dang. > > Then I see something that absolutely delights me whenever it pops up: Al > > Gore talking about the internet. Wheeeeeeee! > > > > Okay, yes, bloggers and sites like Slate and Alternet are overtaking TV news > > when it comes to drawing the attention of middle class post-literate dweebs > > like me, but the people who have been truly left out of the democratic > > process, if our process can even legitimately be called that, are also the > > people who are highly unlikely to have a broadband connection; and even if > > they are connected, what good is it going to do them when they've been > > deliberately disenfranchised on voting day, again a concept with which Gore > > should be very very familiar. > > > > The revolution will be online, quite probably, but Al Gore will have > > nothing to do with it. > > For the most part, I agree with you. It still leaves the problem of > how effective TV advertising is though. Advertising, news, same thing ;) I love it when I hear people say 'I don't mind commercials, I don't think they affect people that much...' lol, sure, those advertisers are spending a kajillion dollars a second for *nothing* :-\ > Thanks for your thoughts Joe. Most appreciated. =) Thank *you* for the opportunity to rant. Glad you appreciate it, my wife and kids just turn up the TV... 8-) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "C'mon guys. Tonight we're gonna party like it's 1999...again." -Fry "I'm gonna drink 'till I reboot." -Bender -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 01:36:46 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 21:36:46 -0400 Subject: IT360 Show. In-Reply-To: <899751.2263.qm-W5RQQfbthkOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <899751.2263.qm@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4654EC2E.8020101@ve3syb.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > This combined with the fact that it used to be the > only way you could find out about new stuff was via > trade shows, something that the web has changed.... The web makes it easy to get information on new items. You still need to know they exist, happen to stumble over an announcement about them while web surfing (ie. by running across an announcement or review), find them during a web search, or by word of mouth or mailing list. Interesting to hear why some companies didn't attend the IT360 show. It would be interesting to know if a "lack of focus" for a show has anything to do with why we don't seem to have Comdex up here anymore. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 01:54:11 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 21:54:11 -0400 Subject: why not use vesa driver as X default? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070523215411.02428135@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Alex Maynard left a post-it on the fridge: > Based on some recent ubuntu installs where everything else > "just worked" but X-windows (and the whole system) "just froze" I'm > wondering why the drive in xorg.conf doesn't default to a more robust > (if non-optimal) driver like vesa? There could always be a clear option to > switch to a video card specific driver, but why not default to something that > "just works" so as not to scare off new users? > > Thanks to the good suggestion from one of the experts on this list, > switching to vesa solved the problem for me twice on two different > computers-- but as a newby-level user I would never have known to try that > without outside help, which is kind of the point I am trying to make. > > Probably there are some good reasons for the current defaults that I don't > know about, but given all the recent posts about the "just works" aspects > of linux I thought I would put that out as a question. From what I've garnered in seeing this exact question a few times before, the prevailing opinion seems to be that the benefit of doing what you suggest would be outweighed by the costs. This is based on the idea that if vesa were default, the resulting display characteristics on newer NVidia and ATI cards would be clearly sub par. IIANM, the vesa driver does not support most/any of the features on recent video cards, and the result would, as I say, be more detrimental than any conceivable gain from defaulting to vesa. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "Are you all right?" -Leela "Ah, it's nothing a a law suit won't cure." -Bender -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 02:51:40 2007 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 22:51:40 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <46537151.9090202-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46537151.9090202@rogers.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880705231951jb7e6c3bl435a9d3de9fea74e@mail.gmail.com> I'm using ca.inter.net with gentoo and an openwrt router.. it appears to work fine.. I haven't had any problems, and not sure i think you could probably use any internet provider you want with linux.. or freebsd. On 5/22/07, James Knott wrote: > Michael MacLeod wrote: > > On 5/22/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> PPPoE on linux works perfectly and is rather trivial to setup. > >> > >> Of course if it uses PPPoE it really is Bell DSL systems you are going > >> through, although the ISP providing the actual bandwidth to the internet > >> is not Bell (usually at least). > > > > Some ISP's have been buying/leasing up actual space in CO's around the > > GTA, but because they already have PPPoE related infrastructure > > (RADIUS, etc) they've continued to use it. So it's now quite possible > > to have a PPPoE DSL connection and not be connecting to Bell on any > > level. > > > > While many ISP's do rent space in a Bell CO, they still connect to Bell > cables, so you're not likely to be completely free of Bell. Fortunately, > the part of Bell that looks after cables etc., is far more competent > than Sympatico. > > > -- > Use OpenOffice.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 02:59:56 2007 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 22:59:56 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880705231951jb7e6c3bl435a9d3de9fea74e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46537151.9090202@rogers.com> <32f6a8880705231951jb7e6c3bl435a9d3de9fea74e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880705231959i35bdc4dct7263f37bb0148ec5@mail.gmail.com> I forgot to mention. ca.inter.net comes with a Zoom modem.. which doesn't work nicely with a router in the beginning because its its own router. However they tell u how to make it exactly like a regular modem if you ask them and then you can set it up with your router. On 5/23/07, Dave Germiquet wrote: > I'm using ca.inter.net with gentoo and an openwrt router.. it appears > to work fine.. > I haven't had any problems, and not sure i think you could probably > use any internet provider you want with linux.. or freebsd. > > > On 5/22/07, James Knott wrote: > > Michael MacLeod wrote: > > > On 5/22/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > >> PPPoE on linux works perfectly and is rather trivial to setup. > > >> > > >> Of course if it uses PPPoE it really is Bell DSL systems you are going > > >> through, although the ISP providing the actual bandwidth to the internet > > >> is not Bell (usually at least). > > > > > > Some ISP's have been buying/leasing up actual space in CO's around the > > > GTA, but because they already have PPPoE related infrastructure > > > (RADIUS, etc) they've continued to use it. So it's now quite possible > > > to have a PPPoE DSL connection and not be connecting to Bell on any > > > level. > > > > > > > While many ISP's do rent space in a Bell CO, they still connect to Bell > > cables, so you're not likely to be completely free of Bell. Fortunately, > > the part of Bell that looks after cables etc., is far more competent > > than Sympatico. > > > > > > -- > > Use OpenOffice.org > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 03:31:48 2007 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 23:31:48 -0400 Subject: why not use vesa driver as X default? In-Reply-To: <20070523215411.02428135-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20070523215411.02428135@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 May 2007, JoeHill wrote: > Alex Maynard left a post-it on the fridge: > > > Based on some recent ubuntu installs where everything else > > "just worked" but X-windows (and the whole system) "just froze" I'm > > wondering why the drive in xorg.conf doesn't default to a more robust > > (if non-optimal) driver like vesa? There could always be a clear option to > > switch to a video card specific driver, but why not default to something that > > "just works" so as not to scare off new users? > > > > Thanks to the good suggestion from one of the experts on this list, > > switching to vesa solved the problem for me twice on two different > > computers-- but as a newby-level user I would never have known to try that > > without outside help, which is kind of the point I am trying to make. > > > > Probably there are some good reasons for the current defaults that I don't > > know about, but given all the recent posts about the "just works" aspects > > of linux I thought I would put that out as a question. > > From what I've garnered in seeing this exact question a few times before, I'm sorry about that -- I didn't realize it had been asked before. the > prevailing opinion seems to be that the benefit of doing what you suggest would > be outweighed by the costs. This is based on the idea that if vesa were > default, the resulting display characteristics on newer NVidia and ATI cards > would be clearly sub par. IIANM, the vesa driver does not support most/any of > the features on recent video cards, and the result would, as I say, be more > detrimental than any conceivable gain from defaulting to vesa. I'm sure you're right -- probably, I've just had unusual bad luck with default drivers. Alex > > -- > JoeHill > ++++++++++++++++++++ > "Are you all right?" -Leela > "Ah, it's nothing a a law suit won't cure." -Bender > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 04:11:13 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 00:11:13 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <20070522172542.GM10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> I am running FreeBSD 6.2 using teksavvy and its been great. I also have 7 IPs from them. The 7 IPs with a 5M connection costs as much as a bell connection. Also, they don't block any ports. Both Bell and Rogers block lots of services. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lennart > Sorensen > Sent: May 22, 2007 1:26 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers > > On Tue, May 22, 2007 at 10:06:42AM -0700, asdf wrote: > > I wanted to find out if any of the following GTA high-speed DSL > providers are known > > to be Linux/BSD friendly (i.e. Linux/BSD routers work well even though > they may not > > be officially supported): > > > > Acanac http://acanac.ca/ > > 3Web http://www.get3web.com/ > > Inter.Net http://www.ca.inter.net/ > > > > and also wanted to get recommendations from TLUG members on which (non- > Bell) DSL > > provider to choose. Is anyone on this list using one of the above ISPs? > What's your > > experience been like? > > > > I am currently using Rogers cable internet but recently have been > experiencing very > > bad download and upload speeds and am ready to try DSL! I am looking to > avoid Bell > > and instead want to try one of the smaller ISPs/providers who seem to be > offering > > speeds similar to Bell but at cheaper rates. > > > > Never having used DSL before, I also want to find out how well the PPPoE > client in > > Linux (and for those of you have experience with it, in OpenBSD and in > FreeBSD) > > works . One of the reasons I've stuck with Rogers cable internet for so > long is that > > the AccessManager (PPPoE) software was never required and setting up a > Linux/BSD > > router/firewall was simple and easy. > > PPPoE on linux works perfectly and is rather trivial to setup. > > Of course if it uses PPPoE it really is Bell DSL systems you are going > through, although the ISP providing the actual bandwidth to the internet > is not Bell (usually at least). > > I am currently considering going to DSL from rogers as well. So far out > of the suggestions I have had, teksavvy looks promising. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 04:27:23 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 00:27:23 -0400 Subject: why not use vesa driver as X default? In-Reply-To: References: <20070523215411.02428135@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20070524002723.58a26ad3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Alex Maynard left a post-it on the fridge: > > From what I've garnered in seeing this exact question a few times before, > > I'm sorry about that -- I didn't realize it had been asked before. No no, that was 'a lot of people are thinking the same thing as you' :-) > the > > prevailing opinion seems to be that the benefit of doing what you suggest > > would be outweighed by the costs. This is based on the idea that if vesa > > were default, the resulting display characteristics on newer NVidia and ATI > > cards would be clearly sub par. IIANM, the vesa driver does not support > > most/any of the features on recent video cards, and the result would, as I > > say, be more detrimental than any conceivable gain from defaulting to > > vesa. > > I'm sure you're right -- probably, I've just had unusual bad luck with > default drivers. Personally, I don't see why this could not be resolved using the method I've gone through with every install I've done (with Mandriva anyway, that I can recall): at the end of the install you need to configure X and test it with the config you've chosen. If it fails, you try a different driver/settings/etc. I haven't noticed if vesa is an option in there, but I don't know why it could not be. Strangely, no one from any of the major distribution's develepment teams have been asking for my opinion lately. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "Hey, sexy mama. Wanna kill all the humans?" -Bender -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 07:05:08 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 03:05:08 -0400 Subject: checking a burned CD against an ISO In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990705222055i4234e451i7d9420be6f407701@mail.gmail.com> <20070523145012.GN10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990705240005g70e2c795k2b6a4ad9f9c2a010@mail.gmail.com> Thanks to Chris, I did a bit of revising. I'm going to stick the script over here: http://jrandomhacker.info/Checking_a_CD_after_it%27s_been_burned Regarding these two commands: DISK_MD5=$( md5sum "$DEVICE" ) DISK_MD5=`dd if=$DEVICE | head -c $FILESIZE | md5sum` They both work fine, and work/fail in the right cases. I'm choosing the simpler one because "it works for me" but I'm going to note the earlier one which relies on dd/head in case there is a problem for some people. On 5/23/07, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > ISO_FILENAME=pclinuxos-2007.iso > > MD5_FILENAME=pclinuxos-2007.md5sum > > DEVICE=/dev/dvd > > I'd use command-line parameters: > > ISO_FILENAME=$1 > MD5_FILENAME=$2 This wouldn't be appropriate for copying-and-pasting the script. If this were made to be more 'complete' I'd rather use dialog or something more advanced to help select the file. It's meant for newbies. More advanced people could easily peek in and edit the script. Even for an inbetween feature, I'd have to detect if the (three) parameters were filled in and were sane. If not I'd have to spit out an error or give help, which is a bit more than I want to bother with. > > SOURCE_MD5=`cat $MD5_FILENAME` > > No need for an external command: > > read SOURCE_MD5 < $MD5_FILENAME Awesome. I'm always hesitant about relying on external commands. Not that I'd consider a system without 'cat' to be particularly complete.. but it's nice to not have to rely on such things. I guess maybe I'm requiring bash, but that's not so big a leap. > SOURCE_MD5=${SOURCE_MD5%% *} Awesome. I hated using sed. > Only one command is needed: > > printf "\n\n\n" I wondered about this shortly after sending the email. I should have remembered the bit of C which would have had led me to that answer. On 5/23/07, John Vetterli wrote: > I usually just use: > > readcd dev= f=- | diff -s - > > where is the scsi "scsibus,target,lun" and is the iso > file. Try "man readcd" for more info. But I wouldn't want people to need to figure out the device info. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 07:19:12 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 03:19:12 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <20070523211003.7f3c4970-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070522225409.4ec00a86@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705230915q39ee970dwb37568d61f325583@mail.gmail.com> <20070523211003.7f3c4970@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990705240019s3ef66962l1939585a22092c53@mail.gmail.com> On 5/23/07, JoeHill wrote: > Advertising, news, same thing ;) I love it when I hear people say 'I don't > mind commercials, I don't think they affect people that much...' lol, sure, > those advertisers are spending a kajillion dollars a second for *nothing* :-\ This is a strange space to be in. Everyone wants to believe they're immune but not everyone can be correct. Somehow either the people one finds onesself in the company of are collectively less-affected / disaffected by advertising or are lying to themselves. Maybe it's a bit of both, or maybe also a lack of awareness of the actual impact advertising has. Which would, of course, be the points of ads. On the one hand I'd like to think I'm smrt, but on the other hand I've seen 'stone-stupid' people in coffee shops break out into heated philosophical arguments. Limited, mind you, in terms of vocabulary and sources from known arguments but still surprisingly passionate. Heck, am I so different? I can use big words sometimes, but when's the last time I quoted Chomsky? Urr.. yeah. advertising == news =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 07:29:34 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 03:29:34 -0400 Subject: why not use vesa driver as X default? In-Reply-To: <20070524002723.58a26ad3-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20070523215411.02428135@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070524002723.58a26ad3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990705240029j1313e597v48e6e38c8d68efd6@mail.gmail.com> On 5/23/07, Alex Maynard wrote: > Based on some recent ubuntu installs where everything else > "just worked" but X-windows (and the whole system) "just froze" I'm > wondering why the drive in xorg.conf doesn't default to a more robust > (if non-optimal) driver like vesa? There could always be a clear option to switch > to a video card specific driver, but why not default to something that > "just works" so as not to scare off new users? "just works" ? Ubuntu? No, that'd be PCLinuxOS. The new 2007 release came out the other day and I'll drop off a few CDs to the caffe on Friday after work. Having a LiveCD automatically detect everything and boot into 1920x1200 is quite a shocker. =) But to be honest, 3d support and the fancy desktops and such is pretty shaky as it is.. I haven't bothered to go near that stuff yet, but I know others who are happy with those features. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 11:15:48 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 07:15:48 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <465573E4.4010202@rogers.com> Ansar Mohammed wrote: > I am running FreeBSD 6.2 using teksavvy and its been great. I also have 7 > IPs from them. The 7 IPs with a 5M connection costs as much as a bell > connection. > > Also, they don't block any ports. Both Bell and Rogers block lots of > services. > > > Other than port 25, what does Rogers block? -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 11:36:51 2007 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 07:36:51 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <465573E4.4010202-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <465573E4.4010202@rogers.com> Message-ID: <465578D3.80903@primus.ca> James Knott wrote: > > Other than port 25, what does Rogers block? Freedom of choice? Block. Throttle. Cap. Why would anyone deal with the Rogers Family Compact? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 11:45:23 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 07:45:23 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <465578D3.80903-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <465573E4.4010202@rogers.com> <465578D3.80903@primus.ca> Message-ID: <46557AD3.6020104@rogers.com> George Nicol wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> >> Other than port 25, what does Rogers block? > > Freedom of choice? > > Block. Throttle. Cap. > > Why would anyone deal with the Rogers Family Compact? > Well, I've been with them for many years and fine the service is quite good. It's certainly much better than my experiences with Sympatico. Now you again say "block". What is blocked, other than port 25? What throttle are you referring to? There was some mention of one in the paper a couple of weeks ago and Rogers said it didn't happen and I haven't experienced a throttle using the service describe. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 13:23:47 2007 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 09:23:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <465578D3.80903-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <465578D3.80903@primus.ca> Message-ID: <714069.77064.qm@web88103.mail.re2.yahoo.com> George Nicol wrote: Why would anyone deal with the Rogers Family Compact? Well Well I won a contast. Free Internet for life from Rogers. The contest was with TSN. I will probably stay with them. Stephen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 13:27:22 2007 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 09:27:22 -0400 Subject: why not use vesa driver as X default? In-Reply-To: <20070524002723.58a26ad3-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20070524002723.58a26ad3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 May 2007, JoeHill wrote: > Alex Maynard left a post-it on the fridge: > > > > From what I've garnered in seeing this exact question a few times before, > > > > I'm sorry about that -- I didn't realize it had been asked before. > > No no, that was 'a lot of people are thinking the same thing as you' :-) > > > the > > > prevailing opinion seems to be that the benefit of doing what you suggest > > > would be outweighed by the costs. This is based on the idea that if vesa > > > were default, the resulting display characteristics on newer NVidia and ATI > > > cards would be clearly sub par. IIANM, the vesa driver does not support > > > most/any of the features on recent video cards, and the result would, as I > > > say, be more detrimental than any conceivable gain from defaulting to > > > vesa. > > > > I'm sure you're right -- probably, I've just had unusual bad luck with > > default drivers. > > Personally, I don't see why this could not be resolved using the method I've > gone through with every install I've done (with Mandriva anyway, that I can > recall): at the end of the install you need to configure X and test it with the > config you've chosen. If it fails, you try a different driver/settings/etc. I > haven't noticed if vesa is an option in there, but I don't know why it could > not be. I agree. What would be great is if they could automate this testing process a bit for new users. I'm guessing that while an experienced user will do something like you describe many first time curious, but not committed, users would simply reset back to windows. > > Strangely, no one from any of the major distribution's develepment teams have > been asking for my opinion lately. > > -- > JoeHill > ++++++++++++++++++++ > "Hey, sexy mama. Wanna kill all the humans?" -Bender > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 14:16:54 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 10:16:54 -0400 Subject: why not use vesa driver as X default? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070524141654.GQ10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 23, 2007 at 04:04:18PM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: > Based on some recent ubuntu installs where everything else > "just worked" but X-windows (and the whole system) "just froze" I'm > wondering why the drive in xorg.conf doesn't default to a more robust > (if non-optimal) driver like vesa? There could always be a clear option to switch > to a video card specific driver, but why not default to something that > "just works" so as not to scare off new users? > > Thanks to the good suggestion from one of the experts on this list, > switching to vesa solved the problem for me twice on two different computers-- but > as a newby-level user I would never have known to try that without outside help, > which is kind of the point I am trying to make. > > Probably there are some good reasons for the current defaults that I don't > know about, but given all the recent posts about the "just works" aspects > of linux I thought I would put that out as a question. Well reasons not to use vesa: -Much much slower -Can't change resolutions on the fly (at least last I tried it) -Only works if you have a vesa bios on your video card (many don't) -Often can't control refresh rate only resolution resulting in annoying flicker (if using a CRT at least). -Limited resolution choices may prevent using a decent resolution -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 14:19:23 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 10:19:23 -0400 Subject: checking a burned CD against an ISO In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990705222055i4234e451i7d9420be6f407701@mail.gmail.com> <20070523145012.GN10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070524141923.GR10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 23, 2007 at 04:52:57PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > I've been using 'md5sum "$DEVICE"' without any problem for years. Well certainly for a long time the kernel would read past the end of the device on many ATAPI cdrom drives. Not sure if it applies to DVD at all. Basicly the kernel would try to read 64k at a time even if you didn't ask for that much. Perhaps the error recovery has finally improved. On scsi interface cdrom drives I don't think there was ever a problem. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 14:23:04 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 10:23:04 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <20070524142304.GS10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 12:11:13AM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > I am running FreeBSD 6.2 using teksavvy and its been great. I also have 7 > IPs from them. The 7 IPs with a 5M connection costs as much as a bell > connection. > > Also, they don't block any ports. Both Bell and Rogers block lots of > services. Does 7 IPs mean an IP for PPPoE plus a /29 block routed to you through the main IP? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 14:23:43 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 10:23:43 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <465573E4.4010202-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <465573E4.4010202@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070524142343.GT10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 07:15:48AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Other than port 25, what does Rogers block? I have seen nastygrams sent to people over web servers and ftp servers, and they try their best to kill the performance of p2p systems. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 14:27:41 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 10:27:41 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705240019s3ef66962l1939585a22092c53-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070522225409.4ec00a86@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705230915q39ee970dwb37568d61f325583@mail.gmail.com> <20070523211003.7f3c4970@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1e55af990705240019s3ef66962l1939585a22092c53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070524142741.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 03:19:12AM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > This is a strange space to be in. Everyone wants to believe they're > immune but not everyone can be correct. > > Somehow either the people one finds onesself in the company of are > collectively less-affected / disaffected by advertising or are lying > to themselves. Maybe it's a bit of both, or maybe also a lack of > awareness of the actual impact advertising has. Which would, of > course, be the points of ads. I know there are commercials that have very succesfully put some companies on a permanent ban in my mind, where I simply refuse to ever go to one of their stores because their advertising campaigns are just so amazingly stupid. Maybe they are trying to attract a different type of person, whoever that is. :) So no I am not immune to advertising, but it isn't always a possitive thing for the advertiser. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 14:28:26 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 10:28:26 -0400 Subject: [OT] IP Problems in Windoze In-Reply-To: References: <4647939C.9129.1EF3FCA@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <20070524142826.GV10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 23, 2007 at 08:05:31PM +0000, Peter P. wrote: > So this windows defaulting to the next best open network may be a felony. At > least in Michigan ? > > http://www.cnn.com > Article (clip): 'Wifi freeloader gets nabbed' Windows will probably manage to violate one of the anti spyware laws that keeps popping up one of these days. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 14:33:39 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 10:33:39 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <20070524142343.GT10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <465573E4.4010202@rogers.com> <20070524142343.GT10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4655A243.9010703@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 07:15:48AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> Other than port 25, what does Rogers block? >> > > I have seen nastygrams sent to people over web servers and ftp servers, > and they try their best to kill the performance of p2p systems. > > There's a difference between "nastygrams" and blocking ports. Some time ago, I read in their FAQs or other online info that while users are prohibited from running such services, they only enforce if it becomes a problem. So, if you had a server that you use only for personal purposes, it's not an issue. However, if your server is widely used by others, then they'll remind you that you're violating the TOS. They have to include those prohibitions listed, even if they only want to go after the abusers. Their concern is overuse of shared bandwidth, not what you're doing. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 16:05:04 2007 From: tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 12:05:04 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <20070524142304.GS10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070524142304.GS10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070524160504.GA1145@thecat.localnet> On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 10:23:04AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 12:11:13AM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > I am running FreeBSD 6.2 using teksavvy and its been great. I also have 7 > > IPs from them. The 7 IPs with a 5M connection costs as much as a bell > > connection. > > > > Also, they don't block any ports. Both Bell and Rogers block lots of > > services. > > Does 7 IPs mean an IP for PPPoE plus a /29 block routed to you through > the main IP? My wife's church has a /29 from Teksavvy. Supposed to be 6 IPs but as you note the router (a Debian box) is assigned a PPPoE address. So far it has always been assigned the same IP addr for PPPoE so I can access it remotely by the PPPoE addr or by its assigned /29 subnet address. So even though (6 + PPPoE =) 7 IP addrs are assigned, only the 6 on the /29 are really useful (unless I really really screw up the routing and can't get to it by its /29 addr! :-) ). Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 16:57:06 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 12:57:06 -0400 Subject: apt-get install gcc-g++ fails because ++ is removed. Message-ID: <1e55af990705240957o6b316108x5d024f78d88aca02@mail.gmail.com> apt-get install gcc-g++ becomes apt-get install gcc-g I was forced to use a GUI tool to install this package. I wasn't able to figure out why "++" was being removed, as I had not experienced this in the past. I tried various kinds of quoting and escaping but I couldn't hit upon the right way to have the ++ passed to apt-get. Does anyone have any ideas? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 17:00:51 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 13:00:51 -0400 Subject: apt-get install gcc-g++ fails because ++ is removed. In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705240957o6b316108x5d024f78d88aca02-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705240957o6b316108x5d024f78d88aca02@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4655C4C3.80904@ve3syb.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > apt-get install gcc-g++ > becomes > apt-get install gcc-g [snip] > I tried various kinds of quoting and escaping but I couldn't hit upon > the right way to have the ++ passed to apt-get. Sometimes I have had problems using \ to escape some special characters in commands. I find putting them inside [] often seems to work. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 17:02:46 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 13:02:46 -0400 Subject: apt-get install gcc-g++ fails because ++ is removed. In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705240957o6b316108x5d024f78d88aca02-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705240957o6b316108x5d024f78d88aca02@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070524170246.GW10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 12:57:06PM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > apt-get install gcc-g++ > becomes > apt-get install gcc-g > > I was forced to use a GUI tool to install this package. > > I wasn't able to figure out why "++" was being removed, as I had not > experienced this in the past. > > I tried various kinds of quoting and escaping but I couldn't hit upon > the right way to have the ++ passed to apt-get. > > Does anyone have any ideas? Try apt-get install 'gcc-g++' Using some weird shell? Or did you do something crazy to your shell settings? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 17:17:16 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 13:17:16 -0400 Subject: apt-get install gcc-g++ fails because ++ is removed. In-Reply-To: <20070524170246.GW10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705240957o6b316108x5d024f78d88aca02@mail.gmail.com> <20070524170246.GW10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990705241017m4da23923y82271f829656a0a3@mail.gmail.com> On 5/24/07, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Sometimes I have had problems using \ to escape some special characters in > commands. I find putting them inside [] often seems to work. I wasn't sure what you meant, so I tried these: [apt-get install gcc-g++] apt-get [install gcc-g++] apt-get install gcc-g[++] No luck with those. On 5/24/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Try apt-get install 'gcc-g++' No joy. I had already tried a few variations of this with no luck. > Using some weird shell? Or did you do something crazy to your shell > settings? No, nothing odd. I checked my processes and it's bash. bash --version GNU bash, version 3.1.17(1)-release (i586-mandriva-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 2005 Free Software Foundation, Inc. I could compare this to a previous installation where ++ did work for me. Maybe it's a bash issue and a version change could help me learn more? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 17:19:41 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 13:19:41 -0400 Subject: checking a burned CD against an ISO In-Reply-To: <20070524141923.GR10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705222055i4234e451i7d9420be6f407701@mail.gmail.com> <20070523145012.GN10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070524141923.GR10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990705241019x4798e142u720a97cf6a253a86@mail.gmail.com> On 5/24/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On scsi interface cdrom drives I don't think there was ever a problem. What about CDROMs which are being emulated as a SCSI device? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 17:26:12 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 13:26:12 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <20070524142741.GU10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070522225409.4ec00a86@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705230915q39ee970dwb37568d61f325583@mail.gmail.com> <20070523211003.7f3c4970@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1e55af990705240019s3ef66962l1939585a22092c53@mail.gmail.com> <20070524142741.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990705241026s33b63768g8904baf4b5a13447@mail.gmail.com> On 5/24/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I know there are commercials that have very succesfully put some > companies on a permanent ban in my mind, where I simply refuse to ever go > to one of their stores because their advertising campaigns are just so > amazingly stupid. Maybe they are trying to attract a different type of > person, whoever that is. :) So no I am not immune to advertising, but > it isn't always a possitive thing for the advertiser. For me, this applies to websites. For example, it *really* pained me to shop at www.cmdistro.com .. I ended up writing and rewriting a list of issues which I sent only after boring through the store enough to actually buy something. I look at some awful awful spam, emails, banners and websites and feel the same sort of horror as seeing a terrible non-ad on tv. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 17:30:51 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 13:30:51 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705241026s33b63768g8904baf4b5a13447-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070522225409.4ec00a86@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705230915q39ee970dwb37568d61f325583@mail.gmail.com> <20070523211003.7f3c4970@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1e55af990705240019s3ef66962l1939585a22092c53@mail.gmail.com> <20070524142741.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241026s33b63768g8904baf4b5a13447@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4655CBCB.9030806@utoronto.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > On 5/24/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> I know there are commercials that have very succesfully put some >> companies on a permanent ban in my mind, where I simply refuse to ever go >> to one of their stores because their advertising campaigns are just so >> amazingly stupid. Maybe they are trying to attract a different type of >> person, whoever that is. :) So no I am not immune to advertising, but >> it isn't always a possitive thing for the advertiser. > > For me, this applies to websites. > > For example, it *really* pained me to shop at www.cmdistro.com .. I > ended up writing and rewriting a list of issues which I sent only > after boring through the store enough to actually buy something. > > I look at some awful awful spam, emails, banners and websites and feel > the same sort of horror as seeing a terrible non-ad on tv. Filterset.G with Konqueror gets rid of most ads. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 17:32:39 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 13:32:39 -0400 Subject: IT360 Show. In-Reply-To: <1179968378.8524.88.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <899751.2263.qm@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1179968378.8524.88.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 5/23/07, John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Wed, 2007-05-23 at 18:18 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > > Now, had the show stayed Linux focused this person > > might have considered it, just for brand promotion. > > But with the loss of a Linux focus it just was not > > worth the money... > > > > This combined with the fact that it used to be the > > only way you could find out about new stuff was via > > trade shows, something that the web has changed.... > > That's exactly why we didn't exhibit this year as well. > > IT360's explanation on this matter was "this is our first year for this > show... it takes time to build". I did make some reasonably interesting contacts there; I don't think these shows are anywhere near worthwhile from the "new stuff" perspective, but the draw of people seems a worthwhile thing. It's not about products - it's about people. Of course, that may be an argument in favor of visiting, and NOT exhibiting ;-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 17:33:35 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 13:33:35 -0400 Subject: why not use vesa driver as X default? In-Reply-To: References: <20070524002723.58a26ad3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990705241033sba849d6s420596bd0a76af01@mail.gmail.com> On 5/24/07, Alex Maynard wrote: > What would be great is if they could automate this testing > process a bit for new users. I'm guessing that while an experienced user will do something > like you describe many first time curious, but not committed, users would > simply reset back to windows. I imagine this somewhat like an eye exam. Can you see this image? (pause) Does this look good? (pause) Does this look better, or worse? (pause) It would do corner-testing to find the highest resolution, best refresh rates etc. Then it would have some choices to help the person choose their most comfortable resolution. But I guess this is only for when the setup can't autodetect the card and display in the first place or doesn't have drivers. It might be just as fast to have some kind of central server which can report/fetch this information to make it hands-free after the first few or first developer-reproduced case. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 17:38:23 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 13:38:23 -0400 Subject: IT360 Show. In-Reply-To: References: <899751.2263.qm@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1179968378.8524.88.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0705241038s18efe5c8p72519cd08490da43@mail.gmail.com> On 5/24/07, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 5/23/07, John Van Ostrand wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-05-23 at 18:18 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > > > Now, had the show stayed Linux focused this person > > > might have considered it, just for brand promotion. > > > But with the loss of a Linux focus it just was not > > > worth the money... > > > > > > This combined with the fact that it used to be the > > > only way you could find out about new stuff was via > > > trade shows, something that the web has changed.... > > > > That's exactly why we didn't exhibit this year as well. > > > > IT360's explanation on this matter was "this is our first year for this > > show... it takes time to build". > > I did make some reasonably interesting contacts there; I don't think > these shows are anywhere near worthwhile from the "new stuff" > perspective, but the draw of people seems a worthwhile thing. > > It's not about products - it's about people. > > Of course, that may be an argument in favor of visiting, and NOT exhibiting ;-). Funny thing, I completely agree with you on this. Exhibitors are (or at least should be) _very_ interested in visitors though. Without them, a tradeshow is pretty much useless. I'd really like to go on about the show and the changes that have occurred, but I really can't define my thoughts clearly enough (even to myself) yet. I'll just leave my $0.02 here for now, and hopefully pick them up again in the future. =) -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 18:01:38 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 14:01:38 -0400 Subject: apt-get install gcc-g++ fails because ++ is removed. In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705241017m4da23923y82271f829656a0a3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705240957o6b316108x5d024f78d88aca02@mail.gmail.com> <20070524170246.GW10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241017m4da23923y82271f829656a0a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4655D302.7050806@ve3syb.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > I wasn't sure what you meant, so I tried these: > [apt-get install gcc-g++] > apt-get [install gcc-g++] > apt-get install gcc-g[++] I meant to say you can try using [] around each of the special characters that a simple \ still doesn't protect. ie. apt-get install gcc-g[+][+] Putting the 'gcc-g++' in double quotes would have been the simpler approach but even the double quotes doesn't always seem to protect some special characters in strings. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 18:03:50 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 14:03:50 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705241026s33b63768g8904baf4b5a13447-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070522225409.4ec00a86@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705230915q39ee970dwb37568d61f325583@mail.gmail.com> <20070523211003.7f3c4970@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1e55af990705240019s3ef66962l1939585a22092c53@mail.gmail.com> <20070524142741.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241026s33b63768g8904baf4b5a13447@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a@mail.gmail.com> On 5/24/07, Sy Ali wrote: > On 5/24/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > I know there are commercials that have very succesfully put some > > companies on a permanent ban in my mind, where I simply refuse to ever go > > to one of their stores because their advertising campaigns are just so > > amazingly stupid. Maybe they are trying to attract a different type of > > person, whoever that is. :) So no I am not immune to advertising, but > > it isn't always a possitive thing for the advertiser. > > For me, this applies to websites. > > For example, it *really* pained me to shop at www.cmdistro.com .. I > ended up writing and rewriting a list of issues which I sent only > after boring through the store enough to actually buy something. > > I look at some awful awful spam, emails, banners and websites and feel > the same sort of horror as seeing a terrible non-ad on tv. Ok, so to tie the original post back to Linux and it's adoption... All advertising - by word of mouth, "strategic partners," radio and/or television, the web, etc. - is risky. Get it right and you make money. Get it wrong and you face loosing business. I'll never be able to forget listening to Marcel Gagne at last year's FSOSS Symposium (York University) where he mentioned a discussion he'd had about renting billboards in Toronto for the purpose of raising local awareness about Linux. Apparently it's relatively inexpensive (as compared to other forms of advertising). Assuming that there are some marketing types around, it sounds all well and good - but as Al Gore mentions in the excerpt from "The Assault on Reason," individuals (and by extension non-profits) face a difficult time 'advertising' their interests/concerns. Are we capable of overcoming this? (Just thinking out loud so-to-speak.) -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 18:41:41 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 14:41:41 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <20070524160504.GA1145-70WplSiaoiAG/9ncUZ6upg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070524142304.GS10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070524160504.GA1145@thecat.localnet> Message-ID: <4655DC65.7060003@rogers.com> Allen Taylor wrote: > On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 10:23:04AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 12:11:13AM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> >>> I am running FreeBSD 6.2 using teksavvy and its been great. I also have 7 >>> IPs from them. The 7 IPs with a 5M connection costs as much as a bell >>> connection. >>> >>> Also, they don't block any ports. Both Bell and Rogers block lots of >>> services. >>> >> Does 7 IPs mean an IP for PPPoE plus a /29 block routed to you through >> the main IP? >> > > My wife's church has a /29 from Teksavvy. Supposed to be 6 IPs but as > you note the router (a Debian box) is assigned a PPPoE address. So far > it has always been assigned the same IP addr for PPPoE so I can access > it remotely by the PPPoE addr or by its assigned /29 subnet address. So > even though (6 + PPPoE =) 7 IP addrs are assigned, only the 6 on the /29 > are really useful (unless I really really screw up the routing and can't > get to it by its /29 addr! :-) ). > > > With a /29 subnet mask, you've got 8 addresses. Of those 8, 1 is the network address and one the broadcast. That leaves 6 addresses for your use. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 19:06:58 2007 From: erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Frank) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 15:06:58 -0400 Subject: Where to buy new PC in the GTA? Message-ID: <4655E252.8020401@rogers.com> Hi All! After many years surviving on used PCs and build-my-own PCs my wife has agreed that I can buy a new (but not bank-breaking) desktop PC. Saw a couple in the stores last night (Acer and Lenovo) that were Athlon 64 bit dual processor with 1 Gig of RAM for like $650. I was really hoping to find this with 2 gig but still in the same price point (or cheaper if possible). Where should I be looking in the GTA? Thanks in advance. Frank in Mississauga -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 19:15:28 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 15:15:28 -0400 Subject: Where to buy new PC in the GTA? In-Reply-To: <4655E252.8020401-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4655E252.8020401@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4655E450.8080401@rogers.com> Frank wrote: > Hi All! > > After many years surviving on used PCs and build-my-own PCs my wife > has agreed that I can buy a new (but not bank-breaking) desktop PC. > Saw a couple in the stores last night (Acer and Lenovo) that were > Athlon 64 bit dual processor with 1 Gig of RAM for like $650. I was > really hoping to find this with 2 gig but still in the same price > point (or cheaper if possible). Where should I be looking in the GTA? > Memory is cheap. You should be able to stay close to the same price range by tossing in another gig, for under $50 -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 21:10:47 2007 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 17:10:47 -0400 Subject: Linux support WMV DRM Message-ID: Hi, I did some googling around but I can't find an answer. Have any of you been able to play wmv9 drm protected files on linux? Martin _________________________________________________________________ New Windows Live Hotmail is here. Upgrade for free and get a better look. www.newhotmail.ca?icid=WLHMENCA150 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 21:36:49 2007 From: tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 17:36:49 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <4655DC65.7060003-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070524142304.GS10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070524160504.GA1145@thecat.localnet> <4655DC65.7060003@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070524213649.GA1422@thecat.localnet> On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 02:41:41PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Allen Taylor wrote: > >On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 10:23:04AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > >>On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 12:11:13AM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > >> > >>>I am running FreeBSD 6.2 using teksavvy and its been great. I also have 7 > >>>IPs from them. The 7 IPs with a 5M connection costs as much as a bell > >>>connection. > >>> > >>>Also, they don't block any ports. Both Bell and Rogers block lots of > >>>services. > >>> > >>Does 7 IPs mean an IP for PPPoE plus a /29 block routed to you through > >>the main IP? > >> > > > >My wife's church has a /29 from Teksavvy. Supposed to be 6 IPs but as > >you note the router (a Debian box) is assigned a PPPoE address. So far > >it has always been assigned the same IP addr for PPPoE so I can access > >it remotely by the PPPoE addr or by its assigned /29 subnet address. So > >even though (6 + PPPoE =) 7 IP addrs are assigned, only the 6 on the /29 > >are really useful (unless I really really screw up the routing and can't > >get to it by its /29 addr! :-) ). > > > > > > > With a /29 subnet mask, you've got 8 addresses. Of those 8, 1 is the > network address and one the broadcast. That leaves 6 addresses for your > use. Exactly! And one of those 6 has to be assigned to the router leaving 5 assignable to other servers on the sub-net. The (sub) discussion started with the assertion that 7 IP addresses were assigned by Teksavvy - but one is in fact the PPPoE address. Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 21:46:10 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 17:46:10 -0400 Subject: apt-get install gcc-g++ fails because ++ is removed. In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705241017m4da23923y82271f829656a0a3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705240957o6b316108x5d024f78d88aca02@mail.gmail.com> <20070524170246.GW10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241017m4da23923y82271f829656a0a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070524214610.GX10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 01:17:16PM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > No, nothing odd. I checked my processes and it's bash. > > bash --version > GNU bash, version 3.1.17(1)-release (i586-mandriva-linux-gnu) > Copyright (C) 2005 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > > I could compare this to a previous installation where ++ did work for > me. Maybe it's a bash issue and a version change could help me learn > more? Which debian version? Is there even a gcc-g++ package? Debian has gcc and g++ but no gcc-g++ And for apt-cache which does regex I have to do: apt-cache search g\\+\\+ or apt-cache search 'g\+\+' -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 21:47:03 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 17:47:03 -0400 Subject: checking a burned CD against an ISO In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705241019x4798e142u720a97cf6a253a86-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705222055i4234e451i7d9420be6f407701@mail.gmail.com> <20070523145012.GN10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070524141923.GR10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241019x4798e142u720a97cf6a253a86@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070524214703.GY10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 01:19:41PM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > What about CDROMs which are being emulated as a SCSI device? I think those counted as scsi devices and worked fine. Hopefully that means when everyone eventually uses only libata drivers, the problem will be totally gone forever. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 21:51:18 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 17:51:18 -0400 Subject: Where to buy new PC in the GTA? In-Reply-To: <4655E252.8020401-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4655E252.8020401@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070524215118.GZ10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 03:06:58PM -0400, Frank wrote: > After many years surviving on used PCs and build-my-own PCs my wife has > agreed that I can buy a new (but not bank-breaking) desktop PC. Saw a > couple in the stores last night (Acer and Lenovo) that were Athlon 64 > bit dual processor with 1 Gig of RAM for like $650. I was really hoping > to find this with 2 gig but still in the same price point (or cheaper if > possible). Where should I be looking in the GTA? Personally I always build my own because I know where I can save money and where to spend a little extra for my needs. Most name brands just know how to cut all corners to make the price tag as small as possible, with no consideration to actual performance (They seem to assume the customer simply wants lowest price for highest cpu number/memory size/hd size). I tend to buy my parts at logic computer house or canada computers. I built a new computer for my sister in december, and spent about $1300, which was what I thought was about as low as I could go while still getting top quality and good performance for the money. Not sure going under $1000 ever gives good quality or performance for the money at this time. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 02:42:27 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 22:42:27 -0400 Subject: What's up, prox Message-ID: <46564D13.4040301@telly.org> Hi folks, Management at a client is noticing a few employees doing a few things with their time that they ought not to be doing. This let to a suggestion of a system that will - force web browsing through a Squid/dansguardian setup - either block MSN or force it through 'msngrep', based on internal IP address - probably toss in some intrusion detection for good measure While the client already has a Symantec firewall appliance in place, I thought that a Linux-based firewall system would be the best way to implement this in a manner that could not be circumvented by users. Just do the rules to force selected traffic through the appropriate proxies. This leads to a few choices: 1) Ubuntu or Smoothwall? Is it better to get and hack a distribution designed solely to be a firewall, or to set up a general purpose distro to be one? The reviews of Smoothwall look interesting, however it seems that the free version misses some of the features I want ("SmoothGuardian" is part of the commercial non-free enhanced product). I look at http://www.smoothwall.net/products/comparison.gpl.php and fear that the GPL version is just a bit too crippled -- and that making changes that deviate from the core not only makes support difficult, but also require command-line tuning that's the opposite of the system's whole GUI-friendly approach. Dan's Guardian is just another package in the Ubuntu repository universe. 2) If Ubuntu: shorewall, firestarter or something else? If I choose to use a general purpose distro for my platform, there are a number of possible front ends to iptables. Does anyone here have experience with (or better, a logic-based preference) the shorewall, firestarter or other iptables frontends? 3) Is there a better approach to doing this? Thanks for any suggestions. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 03:01:59 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 23:01:59 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <20070524142304.GS10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070524142304.GS10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <001b01c79e79$1017b8d0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Yeap. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lennart > Sorensen > Sent: May 24, 2007 10:23 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers > > On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 12:11:13AM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > I am running FreeBSD 6.2 using teksavvy and its been great. I also have > 7 > > IPs from them. The 7 IPs with a 5M connection costs as much as a bell > > connection. > > > > Also, they don't block any ports. Both Bell and Rogers block lots of > > services. > > Does 7 IPs mean an IP for PPPoE plus a /29 block routed to you through > the main IP? > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 03:04:48 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 23:04:48 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <4655DC65.7060003-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070524142304.GS10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070524160504.GA1145@thecat.localnet> <4655DC65.7060003@rogers.com> Message-ID: <001c01c79e79$74fb5bd0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> To be honest, I use the entire range. Since with the proper NAT rules, you are not using broadcast or subnet address. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of James > Knott > Sent: May 24, 2007 2:42 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers > > Allen Taylor wrote: > > On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 10:23:04AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > >> On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 12:11:13AM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > >> > >>> I am running FreeBSD 6.2 using teksavvy and its been great. I also > have 7 > >>> IPs from them. The 7 IPs with a 5M connection costs as much as a bell > >>> connection. > >>> > >>> Also, they don't block any ports. Both Bell and Rogers block lots of > >>> services. > >>> > >> Does 7 IPs mean an IP for PPPoE plus a /29 block routed to you through > >> the main IP? > >> > > > > My wife's church has a /29 from Teksavvy. Supposed to be 6 IPs but as > > you note the router (a Debian box) is assigned a PPPoE address. So far > > it has always been assigned the same IP addr for PPPoE so I can access > > it remotely by the PPPoE addr or by its assigned /29 subnet address. So > > even though (6 + PPPoE =) 7 IP addrs are assigned, only the 6 on the /29 > > are really useful (unless I really really screw up the routing and can't > > get to it by its /29 addr! :-) ). > > > > > > > With a /29 subnet mask, you've got 8 addresses. Of those 8, 1 is the > network address and one the broadcast. That leaves 6 addresses for your > use. > > > -- > Use OpenOffice.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 03:09:09 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 23:09:09 -0400 Subject: tweaking $TERM - SOLUTION In-Reply-To: <46487F50.1070703-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070513131228.GA7460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1f13df280705140739p56c6f9b6i827cf192095c5d43@mail.gmail.com> <46487F50.1070703@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070525030909.GA13297@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 11:25:04AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >Giles Orr wrote: >> I've come up against similar problems and your comment about "man >> terminfo" is what stopped me - I just gave up. If you're successful >> and feel like sharing, please post info about what you did either to >> me or back to the list if others are interested. Thanks. > >It's intimidating but, like so much of Linux and Unix before it, >figuring out the secret handshake is half the battle. The tweaking a >terminfo entry is not particularly difficult once the tools are known: > >1) identify a definition that is close to what you want > >2) decompile it using `infocmp` to a text file > >3) use your favourite editor to adjust the handful of variables you want >to change > >4) using that same editor, give your entry a new name. if the >differences from the one you started are minor, considering the name in >the form of "basename-modname" (ie, "ansi-color") > >5) recompile using tic. Usually this will place the compiled verion in >the right place for you. > >6) you can use `infocmp` to verify the differences between the base >entry and your modified one. > >There are a lot of terminfo entries out there. Many Linux distributions >only install a small subset (usually the ansi, vt100 and wyse ones) and >keep the rest in another package to be optionally installed. After working with these instructions, I found that the difference between the terminfo that worked best for everything except finch (terminal IM program) and the one that worked best for finch was that the first had "with bce support" and the other didn't. So, I was not able to craft a best fit terminfo with only one differentiator. My solution, such as it is, is to reset one terminal with $TERM=screen and then run finch, and leave all of the others as screen-bce. It is not perfect, but I learned a lot in the process. Thanks to all for the help. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 03:10:26 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 23:10:26 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <20070524213649.GA1422-70WplSiaoiAG/9ncUZ6upg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070524142304.GS10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070524160504.GA1145@thecat.localnet> <4655DC65.7060003@rogers.com> <20070524213649.GA1422@thecat.localnet> Message-ID: <002101c79e7a$3ea3cf30$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> This is true if you are routing directly to those IP Addresses. I am not. I am natting them at my gateway to internal IPs which gives me access to all 7. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Allen > Taylor > Sent: May 24, 2007 5:37 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers > > On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 02:41:41PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > > Allen Taylor wrote: > > >On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 10:23:04AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > > > >>On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 12:11:13AM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > >> > > >>>I am running FreeBSD 6.2 using teksavvy and its been great. I also > have 7 > > >>>IPs from them. The 7 IPs with a 5M connection costs as much as a bell > > >>>connection. > > >>> > > >>>Also, they don't block any ports. Both Bell and Rogers block lots of > > >>>services. > > >>> > > >>Does 7 IPs mean an IP for PPPoE plus a /29 block routed to you through > > >>the main IP? > > >> > > > > > >My wife's church has a /29 from Teksavvy. Supposed to be 6 IPs but as > > >you note the router (a Debian box) is assigned a PPPoE address. So far > > >it has always been assigned the same IP addr for PPPoE so I can access > > >it remotely by the PPPoE addr or by its assigned /29 subnet address. So > > >even though (6 + PPPoE =) 7 IP addrs are assigned, only the 6 on the > /29 > > >are really useful (unless I really really screw up the routing and > can't > > >get to it by its /29 addr! :-) ). > > > > > > > > > > > With a /29 subnet mask, you've got 8 addresses. Of those 8, 1 is the > > network address and one the broadcast. That leaves 6 addresses for your > > use. > > Exactly! And one of those 6 has to be assigned to the router leaving 5 > assignable to other servers on the sub-net. > > The (sub) discussion started with the assertion that 7 IP addresses were > assigned by Teksavvy - but one is in fact the PPPoE address. > > Allen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 03:31:18 2007 From: tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 23:31:18 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <002101c79e7a$3ea3cf30$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070524142304.GS10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070524160504.GA1145@thecat.localnet> <4655DC65.7060003@rogers.com> <20070524213649.GA1422@thecat.localnet> <002101c79e7a$3ea3cf30$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <20070525033118.GA1668@thecat.localnet> On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 11:10:26PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > This is true if you are routing directly to those IP Addresses. I am not. I > am natting them at my gateway to internal IPs which gives me access to all > 7. True. In our case, direct routing was a lot simpler for our needs. Are we far enough off topic from the original question? :-) Allen > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Allen > > Taylor > > Sent: May 24, 2007 5:37 PM > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers > > > > On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 02:41:41PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > > > Allen Taylor wrote: > > > >On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 10:23:04AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > > > > > >>On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 12:11:13AM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > > >> > > > >>>I am running FreeBSD 6.2 using teksavvy and its been great. I also > > have 7 > > > >>>IPs from them. The 7 IPs with a 5M connection costs as much as a bell > > > >>>connection. > > > >>> > > > >>>Also, they don't block any ports. Both Bell and Rogers block lots of > > > >>>services. > > > >>> > > > >>Does 7 IPs mean an IP for PPPoE plus a /29 block routed to you through > > > >>the main IP? > > > >> > > > > > > > >My wife's church has a /29 from Teksavvy. Supposed to be 6 IPs but as > > > >you note the router (a Debian box) is assigned a PPPoE address. So far > > > >it has always been assigned the same IP addr for PPPoE so I can access > > > >it remotely by the PPPoE addr or by its assigned /29 subnet address. So > > > >even though (6 + PPPoE =) 7 IP addrs are assigned, only the 6 on the > > /29 > > > >are really useful (unless I really really screw up the routing and > > can't > > > >get to it by its /29 addr! :-) ). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With a /29 subnet mask, you've got 8 addresses. Of those 8, 1 is the > > > network address and one the broadcast. That leaves 6 addresses for your > > > use. > > > > Exactly! And one of those 6 has to be assigned to the router leaving 5 > > assignable to other servers on the sub-net. > > > > The (sub) discussion started with the assertion that 7 IP addresses were > > assigned by Teksavvy - but one is in fact the PPPoE address. > > > > Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 07:24:20 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 03:24:20 -0400 Subject: apt-get install gcc-g++ fails because ++ is removed. In-Reply-To: <4655D302.7050806-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705240957o6b316108x5d024f78d88aca02@mail.gmail.com> <20070524170246.GW10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241017m4da23923y82271f829656a0a3@mail.gmail.com> <4655D302.7050806@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990705250024n6029ea20me869cbac37347062@mail.gmail.com> On 5/24/07, Kevin Cozens wrote: > I meant to say you can try using [] around each of the special characters that > a simple \ still doesn't protect. ie. apt-get install gcc-g[+][+] I'll give this a shot. > Putting the 'gcc-g++' in double quotes would have been the simpler approach > but even the double quotes doesn't always seem to protect some special > characters in strings. I also think apt-get interprets - to remove packages and + to add packages which may be confusing things apt-get install nano vi- emacs- I am told this removes vi and emacs while installing nano. =) On 5/24/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Which debian version? PCLinuxOS 2007 > Is there even a gcc-g++ package? Debian has gcc and g++ but no gcc-g++ Sorry, that was a typo.. it's gcc-c++ > And for apt-cache which does regex I have to do: > > apt-cache search g\\+\\+ > or > apt-cache search 'g\+\+' I'll play with these, thanks. Strangely, others seem to not be reproducing this, but they're using 'sudo' first, and I just do 'su'. When I have a moment at the office I'll try again. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 08:51:31 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 04:51:31 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <921216.76646.qm-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46566B53.4458.17AC3EB@sciguy.vex.net> > Have a word with Dave Gilbert (who I am cc'ing), he is > the former technical head of a small local DSL > offering ISP. Dave is also a regular at the Unix > Unanimous user group meetings (so more of a BSD guy > than Linux), he should be happy to offer advice on the > BSD friendly ISPs... > > Colin McGregor > vex.net, my ISP, runs BSD and offers DSL (which I am using now). They have full shell access through Telnet/SSL. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 11:17:54 2007 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 07:17:54 -0400 Subject: (Semi-OT)PostgreSQL Consulting Message-ID: I'm working for a company that will be looking to move new server software into a production environment later this year. As part of that, we may want to obtain services from someone who has experience with PostgreSQL in a high-availability installation (replication, failover) and possibly also with tuning, monitoring and other operational considerations. I've looked at the commercial support section of the PostgreSQL web site, but the Ontario contacts listed there seem mostly about programming and we've got that part covered. Suggestions are welcome and may be sent directly to me if they're considered inappropriate for the list. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 12:53:52 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 08:53:52 -0400 Subject: What's up, prox In-Reply-To: <46564D13.4040301-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <46564D13.4040301@telly.org> Message-ID: <1180097632.6569.74.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Thu, 2007-05-24 at 22:42 -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > 1) Ubuntu or Smoothwall? > > Is it better to get and hack a distribution designed solely to be a > firewall, or to set up a general purpose distro to be one? The reviews of > Smoothwall look interesting, however it seems that the free version misses > some of the features I want ("SmoothGuardian" is part of the commercial > non-free enhanced product). I look at > http://www.smoothwall.net/products/comparison.gpl.php and fear that the > GPL version is just a bit too crippled -- and that making changes that > deviate from the core not only makes support difficult, but also require > command-line tuning that's the opposite of the system's whole GUI-friendly > approach. Dan's Guardian is just another package in the Ubuntu repository > universe. We have been using IPCop in a few places and it seems to be doing well. I would normally have recommended it but you mentioned "hacking" The one barrier to hacking an IPCop system is that it is a bare-bones Linux From Scratch distro. The distro itself has no compiler and is missing a lot of command line tools you may want for scripting. That is not to say it can't be hacked, just that it may be easier to get a highly customized solution working on a general purpose distro. Now if you want a really good firewall with lots of existing features and you are willing to spend a little more time customizing IPCop is a great choice. The pros of IPCop: - It's modular. You may be able to find modules for what you're trying to do. - It's completely open source. There is no commercial organization holding back features. - It has easy update to later versions. - Great GUI - Great IPSec and VPN tools. - Support for firmware only systems The cons: - No support for RAID (unless you use my patch) - No dev environment on deployed systems - No commercial support -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 13:56:45 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 09:56:45 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070522225409.4ec00a86@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705230915q39ee970dwb37568d61f325583@mail.gmail.com> <20070523211003.7f3c4970@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1e55af990705240019s3ef66962l1939585a22092c53@mail.gmail.com> <20070524142741.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241026s33b63768g8904baf4b5a13447@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> Scott Elcomb wrote: > All advertising - by word of mouth, "strategic partners," radio and/or > television, the web, etc. - is risky. Get it right and you make > money. Get it wrong and you face loosing business. To a point. Sometimes the purpose of advertising is to get you to remember something, regardless of whether the method to get you to remember was clever or annoying. Anyone heard of "Head On (apply directly to the forehead)"? The commercial doesn't even say what it does, because then they'd have to put in disclaimers, side-effects, etc. And the ads are annoying as hell. But the campaign has been staggeringly successful. Arguably the worst ads are the ones that are incredibly clever and entertaining, but after which you don't remember what was being advertised. There are plenty of these around, since I'm convinced that many ads are created for the purpose of peer recognition rather than maximizing brand exposure and sales. This, of course, brings us to open source, in which peer recognition does count for a lot, and the most controversial moves may be those that succeed in the marketplace but look bad -- or dumb, or evil -- to the rest of the community. Just ask Novell. The open source world is overwhelmed by a "if you build it good enough, they will come" mentality that oozes total contempt for conventional marketing. Developers think that the public thinks the way they do, and can be convinced using the same tactics that would sway them. I may be sorry to mention this, but an excellent example of this mistake (IMO) was the reaction of some on the community to the Microsoft Vista launch. Stand on the corner across the street, demonstrate, inflate a big penguin, and hand out CDs. It certainly made the participants feel good (look how many brochures we burned through!) and was great for peer recognition (participants later judged the event a success because photos of it found their way onto social websites). But the net real effect of that event, to get more open source use in Toronto, was near zero. Make no mistake, this event was done for the benefit of the people doing it, not the target audience -- it served a purpose, to be sure, but not the one stated. On one hand, one can wonder what might have been possible had all the person-hours spent on the event been turned to something more productive. OTOH, these are volunteers, and there's no question that the real marketing work necessary is generally far more tedious, anonymous, and completely devoid of instant personal gratification. So it's doubtful that other marketing tactics would have attracted similar levels of volunteer interest. Similarly, it's interesting to see people here comment on the IT360 tradeshow. (dislcaimer: I did compensated work for the show organizers). People complaining because the show was not just focused on Linux may have forgotten to notice that Linux tradeshows are tanking around the world. Remember the New York LinuxWorld every February? At the turn of the century it ate up nearly a third of the cavernous Javitz Centre, now it's GONE. Ditto the original Linux Expo in Raleigh, and other efforts as well are either gone or hurting. Does this mean that interest in Linux is tanking? Of course not. What it does mean is that Linux is now part of the IT mainstream and no longer needs or merits a ghetto of its own. Linux vendors are busy at enterprise shows and medical IT shows etc., competing head-on with proprietary vendors. The need to tell the world that Linux exists is over, the message now needs to be different. The novelty phase is over, and the shift in focus of IT360 was both useful and necessary. More later. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 14:28:33 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 10:28:33 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <4656EB1D.8040305-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070522225409.4ec00a86@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705230915q39ee970dwb37568d61f325583@mail.gmail.com> <20070523211003.7f3c4970@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1e55af990705240019s3ef66962l1939585a22092c53@mail.gmail.com> <20070524142741.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241026s33b63768g8904baf4b5a13447@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> Message-ID: <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Fri, 2007-05-25 at 09:56 -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I may be sorry to mention this, but an excellent example of this mistake > (IMO) was the reaction of some on the community to the Microsoft Vista > launch. Stand on the corner across the street, demonstrate, inflate a > big penguin, and hand out CDs. It certainly made the participants feel > good (look how many brochures we burned through!) and was great for peer > recognition (participants later judged the event a success because > photos of it found their way onto social websites). But the net real > effect of that event, to get more open source use in Toronto, was near > zero. Make no mistake, this event was done for the benefit of the people > doing it, not the target audience -- it served a purpose, to be sure, > but not the one stated. It's unfair to say that the Vista launch demonstration was ineffective because it had little effect. Virtually all individual ads have little effect. It's the sum of many ads that make the difference. The more people that see the inflated penguin pop-up, the more they will think of it when they see Linux. It's reinforcement. > People complaining because the show was not just focused on Linux may > have forgotten to notice that Linux tradeshows are tanking around the > world. Remember the New York LinuxWorld every February? At the turn of > the century it ate up nearly a third of the cavernous Javitz Centre, now > it's GONE. Ditto the original Linux Expo in Raleigh, and other efforts > as well are either gone or hurting. The trade show is dying, the conference is still there, but it can't be priced like IT360 (or most commercial trade shows.) The Ohio Linux Fest grows every year and is full of great content. It's focus is Linux and Open Source. These types of events are popping everywhere. Locally we have the Ottawa Linux Symposium, the FSOSS at Seneca, Hick Tech in Owen Sound, and the Ontario Linux Fest at the TCC, and probably more that I don't know about. Those efforts are not hurting, in fact their growing in number and attendance. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 14:49:16 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 10:49:16 -0400 Subject: CAT6 cable by the roll Message-ID: I need another roll of network cable. First of all, is cat6 the same as cat5, but higher specs ? and secondly, where is a god place to buy that sort of thing ? Sonham ? Active Surplus ? Above All electronics ? somewheres else ? djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org OR davamundo-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 15:00:10 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:00:10 -0400 Subject: CAT6 cable by the roll In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1180105210.6569.115.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Fri, 2007-05-25 at 10:49 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > I need another roll of network cable. > First of all, is cat6 the same as cat5, but higher specs ? > and secondly, > where is a god place to buy that sort of thing ? > Sonham ? > Active Surplus ? > Above All electronics ? > somewheres else ? Our local home depot (in Waterloo) sells cable but expect to pay a premium. They also sell the jacks and tools, but I don't recall seeing any patch panels. I often purchase from Anixter.ca. Cat6 and cat5e and cat 5 all have 4 pair of wires but the cat6 is of higher spec and requires more meticulous termination to keep the cat6 specification. Expect cable and connectors to cost more. You need to know the difference between "plenum" cable (also called FT6) is required by building codes when cable is installed in air ducts. Most suspended ceilings are considered air return and require FT6. FT6 costs about three times as much as FT4 cable ($275/box vs $90/box). The difference is the jacket and how well it resists burning. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 15:04:45 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:04:45 -0400 Subject: CAT6 cable by the roll In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4656FB0D.7080000@rogers.com> David J Patrick wrote: > I need another roll of network cable. > First of all, is cat6 the same as cat5, but higher specs ? > and secondly, > where is a god place to buy that sort of thing ? > Sonham ? > Active Surplus ? > Above All electronics ? > somewheres else ? > CAT 6 has tighter specs, for use with gigabit ethernet. There are many places to buy it, such as Sayal or Active Electronics, but I'd be careful about buying from Active Surplus. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 15:06:42 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:06:42 -0400 Subject: Ethernet autonegotiate vs forcing full speed Message-ID: <20070525150642.GC5789@watson-wilson.ca> There is debate at work regarding network Ethernet auto-negotiation. I'm the newcomer. Historically they say they had problems with auto-neg and their cisco gear (catalist) and now manually set all switch ports and server NICs to full/full. I've never heard of such a policy. It seems to make extra work for all parties since all gear defaults to auto/auto. Additionally, I spent some time trouble shooting a Linux server that I had newly configured for bonding. I could not force the NICs to full/full. When I had the cisco guy change the switch ports to auto/auto the bonding worked instantly. Should this manual configuration of full/full be the exception or the rule? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 21 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 15:10:54 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:10:54 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy and Bittorrent Message-ID: <20070525111054.0aa0937e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Hi all, Finally got around to signing up for Teksavvy, no more dealing with the robots at Sympatico, yay! Having some of the same issues with my connection and wondering if all of them are to do with the fact that the physical connection is still to Bell's hardware. In particular, I am finding that Bittorrent in problematic. With Sympatico I was showing in Azureus as being firewalled a lot of the time, and download speeds are really slow. This is seemingly continuing with Teksavvy. Uploads are incredibly slow, or nonexistent, usually meaning that something is preventing incoming connections altogether, IIRC. Anyone have any experience with this, or know how I could test on my end what might be interfering? I know that with Sympatico I was frequently showing problems with my upstream bandwidth, and this is something I'm going to have Teksavvy check into, but if there's some tool I can try on my end to see what's going on, that would be cool too. Thanks! -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: "Oh my God, I'm so excited I wish I could wet my pants." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 15:13:33 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:13:33 -0400 Subject: apt-get install gcc-g++ fails because ++ is removed. In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705250024n6029ea20me869cbac37347062-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705240957o6b316108x5d024f78d88aca02@mail.gmail.com> <20070524170246.GW10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241017m4da23923y82271f829656a0a3@mail.gmail.com> <4655D302.7050806@ve3syb.ca> <1e55af990705250024n6029ea20me869cbac37347062@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070525151333.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 25, 2007 at 03:24:20AM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > PCLinuxOS 2007 Don't really know anything about that one. > Sorry, that was a typo.. it's gcc-c++ Where do they get those package names from. I guess PClinuxOS isn't debian based at all. > I'll play with these, thanks. > > Strangely, others seem to not be reproducing this, but they're using > 'sudo' first, and I just do 'su'. When I have a moment at the office > I'll try again. Well for doing su, always use 'su -' since you don't want to keep the user environment when doing stuff as root in general, and you want to gain the path settings for root, rather than keeping the regular user's path. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 15:18:19 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:18:19 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy and Bittorrent In-Reply-To: <20070525111054.0aa0937e-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20070525111054.0aa0937e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20070525151819.GB10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 25, 2007 at 11:10:54AM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > Finally got around to signing up for Teksavvy, no more dealing with the robots > at Sympatico, yay! > > Having some of the same issues with my connection and wondering if all of them > are to do with the fact that the physical connection is still to Bell's > hardware. > > In particular, I am finding that Bittorrent in problematic. With Sympatico I > was showing in Azureus as being firewalled a lot of the time, and download > speeds are really slow. This is seemingly continuing with Teksavvy. Uploads are > incredibly slow, or nonexistent, usually meaning that something is preventing > incoming connections altogether, IIRC. > > Anyone have any experience with this, or know how I could test on my end what > might be interfering? I know that with Sympatico I was frequently showing > problems with my upstream bandwidth, and this is something I'm going to have > Teksavvy check into, but if there's some tool I can try on my end to see what's > going on, that would be cool too. Are you running a firewall? You almost certainly are, in which case maybe it is telling you the right thing. You usually want a certain port range open for incoming traffic assigned to your bittorrent client. With many of the router boxes you can have the bit torrent client open and forward ports automatically using upnp, while others require you manually forwarding a port range and telling the client to bind to those port numbers. I always use bittornado (btlaunchmanycurses specifically). Seems to be the best there is. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 15:22:49 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:22:49 -0400 Subject: Ethernet autonegotiate vs forcing full speed In-Reply-To: <20070525150642.GC5789-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070525150642.GC5789@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070525152249.GC10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 25, 2007 at 11:06:42AM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > There is debate at work regarding network Ethernet auto-negotiation. > I'm the newcomer. Historically they say they had problems with auto-neg > and their cisco gear (catalist) and now manually set all switch ports > and server NICs to full/full. I've never heard of such a policy. It > seems to make extra work for all parties since all gear defaults to > auto/auto. Additionally, I spent some time trouble shooting a Linux > server that I had newly configured for bonding. I could not force the > NICs to full/full. When I had the cisco guy change the switch ports to > auto/auto the bonding worked instantly. > > Should this manual configuration of full/full be the exception or the > rule? I certainly always use auto negotiation. Of course I wouldn't be surprised if there was crappy equipment made early on that got the negotiation wrong and screwed up as a result. I would not expect anything current to have any such problems though. Maybe some people had problems with their crappy old 10mbit stuff years ago and got a policy that made sense 2 decades ago stuck in their heads as the only way to do things. Of course 100mbit could support auto negotiation, but it wasn't mandetory to support it. 10mbit simply didn't have it initially, and I don't know if any 10mbit ever did support autonegotiate. I know gigabit by spec MUST support auto negotiation. I wouldn't be surprised if the drivers for many gigabit ports may not even support setting the port speed manually since there shouldn't normally be a reason to want to do so. Gigabit also doesn't use cross over cables (or at least has no need for them), which makes life simpler. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 15:32:29 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:32:29 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <1180103313.6569.93.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070522225409.4ec00a86@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705230915q39ee970dwb37568d61f325583@mail.gmail.com> <20070523211003.7f3c4970@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1e55af990705240019s3ef66962l1939585a22092c53@mail.gmail.com> <20070524142741.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241026s33b63768g8904baf4b5a13447@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <4657018D.2070508@telly.org> John Van Ostrand wrote: > It's unfair to say that the Vista launch demonstration was ineffective > because it had little effect. Virtually all individual ads have little > effect. It's the sum of many ads that make the difference. The more > people that see the inflated penguin pop-up, the more they will think of > it when they see Linux. It's reinforcement. > No it isn't. The audience that already knows that Linux, (a) is an operating system, and (b) has a penguin for a logo is aware of that, and -- by inference -- doesn't need to be re-taught. If they haven't leaded Linux, seeing an inflated penguin is hardly sufficient incentive for them to do so. The public that _isn't_ aware of those things (and would care if they were) wouldn't necessarily put those pieces together walking past Yonge & Dundas. For all they know it could be the launch of a new penguin movie -- heaven knows there are enough of them coming out these days. The point I'm making is that the public at this point, either 1) doesn't care about computers (talking to this group is relatively pointless). 2) uses computers but hates them and/or seeks to know the bare minimum about how they work (Telling them about Linux might evoke a little curiosity, but no more interest than telling them about a new brand of shock absorber or vacuum) 3) is aware of the inner workings of their computers (Most of these people at this point are already aware of Linux, and have made a conscious decision to either try it or not. These people need advocacy, but they don't need more awareness of the Linux "brand".) My point is that the message needs to shift from "what is Linux?" to "why use Linux?" > The trade show is dying, the conference is still there, but it can't be > priced like IT360 (or most commercial trade shows.) Again, it depends on the audience. Do you believe that most "executive MBA" programs offer value for money? I don't, yet they're very popular despite being really expensive, and universities love them. > These types of events are popping everywhere. Locally we have the Ottawa > Linux Symposium, the FSOSS at Seneca, Hick Tech in Owen Sound, and the > Ontario Linux Fest at the TCC, and probably more that I don't know > about. Those efforts are not hurting, in fact their growing in number > and attendance. > These -- and BarCamp-type events -- will indeed grow in popularity. But these events are generally technical and introspective in nature, and exist to help people who are already sold on open source to deepen their skills at it. Would you send a complete newcomer to open source -- one who knows nothing about it and isn't even sure it's a good idea -- to OLS or even FSOSS? These are places for _existing_ enthusiasts and are hardly what I'd consider agents of advocacy or promotion of open source to the public. Meanwhile, conventional user group attendance -- based on my own observations at TLUG and other cities -- has been relatively static for quite a while, and certainly not reflected the increased use of open source within IT. Indeed, some groups -- such as the one in North Bay -- have closed due to lack of interest. Groups in France and Japan are starving for members -- Tokyo's LUG, serving a city much bigger than Toronto in a country more hospitable to open source than Canada, is smaller than GTALUG. The existing community does well at supporting itself, but its "outreach" tactics leave much to be desired. The message and strategies cannot be the same as they were a decade ago. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 15:39:00 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:39:00 -0400 Subject: CAT6 cable by the roll In-Reply-To: <4656FB0D.7080000-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4656FB0D.7080000@rogers.com> Message-ID: <46570314.6030408@telly.org> James Knott wrote: > CAT 6 has tighter specs, for use with gigabit ethernet. There are > many places to buy it, such as Sayal or Active Electronics, but I'd be > careful about buying from Active Surplus. I second the recommendation for Sayal, but it's for suburbans :-). - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 15:40:27 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:40:27 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <1180103313.6569.93.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070522225409.4ec00a86@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705230915q39ee970dwb37568d61f325583@mail.gmail.com> <20070523211003.7f3c4970@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1e55af990705240019s3ef66962l1939585a22092c53@mail.gmail.com> <20070524142741.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241026s33b63768g8904baf4b5a13447@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: On 5/25/07, John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Fri, 2007-05-25 at 09:56 -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > I may be sorry to mention this, but an excellent example of this mistake > > (IMO) was the reaction of some on the community to the Microsoft Vista > > launch. Stand on the corner across the street, demonstrate, inflate a > > big penguin, and hand out CDs. It certainly made the participants feel > > good (look how many brochures we burned through!) and was great for peer > > recognition (participants later judged the event a success because > > photos of it found their way onto social websites). But the net real > > effect of that event, to get more open source use in Toronto, was near > > zero. Make no mistake, this event was done for the benefit of the people > > doing it, not the target audience -- it served a purpose, to be sure, > > but not the one stated. > > It's unfair to say that the Vista launch demonstration was ineffective > because it had little effect. Virtually all individual ads have little > effect. It's the sum of many ads that make the difference. The more > people that see the inflated penguin pop-up, the more they will think of > it when they see Linux. It's reinforcement. No, I think Evan is right about this. Or at least that he's saying something that should be considered, rather than dismissed. I'm very skeptical of the value of demonstrations (e.g. - of the sort where people "demonstrate against FOO"); it is not at all obvious what difference they make in either the short term or the long term. It is unobvious that they had material effect. Not even in the big bad cases like Tienaman Square. It is tremendously unobvious that protests against Microsoft will cause any grand inspiration on the part of the populace. Nor is it evident that this is of any relevance, when Microsoft doesn't negotiate licensing contracts with "the populace." The *interesting* contracts are large ones, where individuals don't enter as material factors for decisionmaking. > > People complaining because the show was not just focused on Linux may > > have forgotten to notice that Linux tradeshows are tanking around the > > world. Remember the New York LinuxWorld every February? At the turn of > > the century it ate up nearly a third of the cavernous Javitz Centre, now > > it's GONE. Ditto the original Linux Expo in Raleigh, and other efforts > > as well are either gone or hurting. > > The trade show is dying, the conference is still there, but it can't be > priced like IT360 (or most commercial trade shows.) The Ohio Linux Fest > grows every year and is full of great content. It's focus is Linux and > Open Source. There's some truth there, but nonetheless, there has been a loss of large venues, and the growth of small ones does not make up for that. > These types of events are popping everywhere. Locally we have the Ottawa > Linux Symposium, the FSOSS at Seneca, Hick Tech in Owen Sound, and the > Ontario Linux Fest at the TCC, and probably more that I don't know > about. Those efforts are not hurting, in fact their growing in number > and attendance. Well, the Grand Old Shows were quite a bit bigger than these small ones add to. I expect that in another couple years, there won't be an IT360, so it's good that the smaller shows are burgeoning... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 15:42:13 2007 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:42:13 -0400 Subject: CAT6 cable by the roll In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <92ee967a0705250842n5efc978eq8685559967359500@mail.gmail.com> On 5/25/07, David J Patrick wrote: > I need another roll of network cable. > First of all, is cat6 the same as cat5, but higher specs ? > and secondly, > where is a god place to buy that sort of thing ? > Sonham ? > Active Surplus ? > Above All electronics ? > somewheres else ? This place might be a bit out of the way for you. I've used them to buy cat5 keystone jacks and wall plates. I bet they've got cat5 and cat6 cable, both plenum and non-plenum. Their prices seem to be a bit more on the contractor-side of things (i.e. current pricing with appropriate markup) and they're easy to deal with on the phone. http://www.wiringmart.com/ They'd be worth calling at least for a price comparision. Their primary focus is electical, so they speak in the electrical code and funny numbers, but they're friendly. Active electronics (not active surplus) might be my second choice. I've never been to Sayal, so I can't compare. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 15:45:12 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:45:12 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy and Bittorrent In-Reply-To: <20070525111054.0aa0937e-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20070525111054.0aa0937e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20070525154512.GB13297@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Fri, May 25, 2007 at 11:10:54AM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > >Finally got around to signing up for Teksavvy, no more dealing with the robots >at Sympatico, yay! Welcome to the sunny side of the street :-) >In particular, I am finding that Bittorrent in problematic. With Sympatico I >was showing in Azureus as being firewalled a lot of the time, and download >speeds are really slow. This is seemingly continuing with Teksavvy. Uploads are >incredibly slow, or nonexistent, usually meaning that something is preventing >incoming connections altogether, IIRC. As another Teksavvy customer, I can tell you that there is no problem with bittorrent on their system. That's all I'll say, but there's no problem at all here. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 15:55:28 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:55:28 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <4657018D.2070508-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070522225409.4ec00a86@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705230915q39ee970dwb37568d61f325583@mail.gmail.com> <20070523211003.7f3c4970@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1e55af990705240019s3ef66962l1939585a22092c53@mail.gmail.com> <20070524142741.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241026s33b63768g8904baf4b5a13447@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <4657018D.2070508@telly.org> Message-ID: <1180108528.6569.153.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Fri, 2007-05-25 at 11:32 -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > The point I'm making is that the public at this point, either > > 1) doesn't care about computers (talking to this group is relatively > pointless). > > 2) uses computers but hates them and/or seeks to know the bare minimum > about how they work (Telling them about Linux might evoke a little > curiosity, but no more interest than telling them about a new brand of > shock absorber or vacuum) > > 3) is aware of the inner workings of their computers (Most of these > people at this point are already aware of Linux, and have made a > conscious decision to either try it or not. These people need advocacy, > but they don't need more awareness of the Linux "brand".) It seems to me that Microsoft thought that was good venue for advertising. > My point is that the message needs to shift from "what is Linux?" to > "why use Linux?" To some degree I agree with you there, however, I attend a Microsoft user group here in Waterloo and many of their vendors barely know what Open Source is. Sure they've heard of Linux but don't know much about it and they don't understand open source at all. These are people who are often new (or sheltered) in the IT field, or are enthusiasts that have never really connected with anyone outside of the MS camp. > These -- and BarCamp-type events -- will indeed grow in popularity. But > these events are generally technical and introspective in nature, and > exist to help people who are already sold on open source to deepen their > skills at it. You've never been to the Ohio Linux Fest. It's a good mix of technical, road map, BOF, motivational, historical, etc. Just like any conference there was a large number of experienced people there, but I also met one tire kicker and lots of people who would be considered newbies. Besides it's a conference it's supposed to be introspective. > Meanwhile, conventional user group attendance -- based on my own > observations at TLUG and other cities -- has been relatively static for > quite a while, and certainly not reflected the increased use of open > source within IT. Indeed, some groups -- such as the one in North Bay -- > have closed due to lack of interest. Groups in France and Japan are > starving for members -- Tokyo's LUG, serving a city much bigger than > Toronto in a country more hospitable to open source than Canada, is > smaller than GTALUG. That's sad to hear. Our LUG in KW is pretty strong too. Must be cultural. > The existing community does well at supporting itself, but its > "outreach" tactics leave much to be desired. The message and strategies > cannot be the same as they were a decade ago. I don't know about that. The community has taken Linux and Open Source very var in the last decade. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 16:07:05 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 12:07:05 -0400 Subject: CAT6 cable by the roll In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <465709A9.2000608@alteeve.com> David J Patrick wrote: > I need another roll of network cable. > First of all, is cat6 the same as cat5, but higher specs ? > and secondly, > where is a god place to buy that sort of thing ? > Sonham ? > Active Surplus ? > Above All electronics ? > somewheres else ? > > djp > I've gotten stuff from Noramco before. Decent price and good quality. For most purposes, Cat5e will be just fine. As has been said, Cat6 is just a higher standard. Unless you are wiring one heck of a network, you will probably be perfectly happy with Cat5e (unshielded, unless you will be running near nasty EMI). Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 16:42:18 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 12:42:18 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy and Bittorrent In-Reply-To: <20070525151819.GB10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070525111054.0aa0937e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070525151819.GB10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070525124218.308204b2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Lennart Sorensen left a post-it on the fridge: > On Fri, May 25, 2007 at 11:10:54AM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > > Finally got around to signing up for Teksavvy, no more dealing with the > > robots at Sympatico, yay! > > > > Having some of the same issues with my connection and wondering if all of > > them are to do with the fact that the physical connection is still to Bell's > > hardware. > > > > In particular, I am finding that Bittorrent in problematic. With Sympatico I > > was showing in Azureus as being firewalled a lot of the time, and download > > speeds are really slow. This is seemingly continuing with Teksavvy. Uploads > > are incredibly slow, or nonexistent, usually meaning that something is > > preventing incoming connections altogether, IIRC. > > > > Anyone have any experience with this, or know how I could test on my end > > what might be interfering? I know that with Sympatico I was frequently > > showing problems with my upstream bandwidth, and this is something I'm > > going to have Teksavvy check into, but if there's some tool I can try on my > > end to see what's going on, that would be cool too. > > Are you running a firewall? You almost certainly are, in which case > maybe it is telling you the right thing. You usually want a certain > port range open for incoming traffic assigned to your bittorrent client. > With many of the router boxes you can have the bit torrent client open > and forward ports automatically using upnp, while others require you > manually forwarding a port range and telling the client to bind to those > port numbers. I should have mentioned, I already have a port forwarded for Bittorrent. My router, a fairly old implementation of the floppy-based firewall distro thing, does not have an option for forwarding ranges of ports. I use a higher port because of the specific torrent site that I frequent (49152). That worked really great for about a couple of years (coupled with transport encryption) in getting around Sympatico's anti-bittorrent machinations. > I always use bittornado (btlaunchmanycurses specifically). Seems to be > the best there is. I'll check that out, I would like to use a client that consumes a little less overhead than Azureus, but it has always worked really well for me in the past. If one was suspicious that there was still some sympatico shenanigans going on, how would one test that out? Traffic analyzer? Thanks! -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Fry: What are we going to do? Professor: Duh, I know, let's play the lottery. Amy: No, let's buy internet stock. Zoidberg: On margin! Zoidbee wants to buy on margin. Hermes: Look at me! I'm invisible. Fry: Wait a minute, I know what's going on here. You've all become idiots. Bender: Hey, let's go join the Reform party! Everyone: Yeah! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 16:47:32 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 12:47:32 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy and Bittorrent In-Reply-To: <20070525154512.GB13297-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070525111054.0aa0937e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070525154512.GB13297@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070525124732.409b7824@node1.freeyourmachine.org> William O'Higgins Witteman left a post-it on the fridge: > On Fri, May 25, 2007 at 11:10:54AM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > > > >Finally got around to signing up for Teksavvy, no more dealing with the > >robots at Sympatico, yay! > > Welcome to the sunny side of the street :-) Oh, yeah. I just can't believe the difference in the people. It's like you're talking to...well, *people* ;) > >In particular, I am finding that Bittorrent in problematic. With Sympatico I > >was showing in Azureus as being firewalled a lot of the time, and download > >speeds are really slow. This is seemingly continuing with Teksavvy. Uploads > >are incredibly slow, or nonexistent, usually meaning that something is > >preventing incoming connections altogether, IIRC. > > As another Teksavvy customer, I can tell you that there is no problem > with bittorrent on their system. That's all I'll say, but there's no > problem at all here. I wouldn't have thought so. I'm thinking/hoping this is just a result of the physical problems that I was having for the last month or so with sympatico, but at least I'm not filled horror at the thought of calling tech support now. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Were-Bender: Oh boy, I feel like a car in a candy store. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 16:58:55 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 12:58:55 -0400 Subject: CAT6 cable by the roll In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0705250842n5efc978eq8685559967359500-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <92ee967a0705250842n5efc978eq8685559967359500@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <465715CF.9080906@rogers.com> Mike Kallies wrote: > On 5/25/07, David J Patrick wrote: >> I need another roll of network cable. >> First of all, is cat6 the same as cat5, but higher specs ? >> and secondly, >> where is a god place to buy that sort of thing ? >> Sonham ? >> Active Surplus ? >> Above All electronics ? >> somewheres else ? > > This place might be a bit out of the way for you. I've used them to > buy cat5 keystone jacks and wall plates. I bet they've got cat5 and > cat6 cable, both plenum and non-plenum. Their prices seem to be a bit > more on the contractor-side of things (i.e. current pricing with > appropriate markup) and they're easy to deal with on the phone. > > http://www.wiringmart.com/ > > They'd be worth calling at least for a price comparision. Their > primary focus is electical, so they speak in the electrical code and > funny numbers, but they're friendly. > > Active electronics (not active surplus) might be my second choice. > I've never been to Sayal, so I can't compare. They're cheaper than Active Electronics and have a better selection. A couple of weeks ago, I bought some two pair CAT 3 there. Two pair CAT anything tends to be scarce at the retail level. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 17:23:14 2007 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 13:23:14 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy and Bittorrent In-Reply-To: <20070525124732.409b7824-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20070525111054.0aa0937e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070525154512.GB13297@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070525124732.409b7824@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <46571B82.6040005@primus.ca> > As another Teksavvy customer, I can tell you that > there is no problem with bittorrent on their system. Can we assume, then, that you're not behind a Teksavvy proxy? > at least I'm not filled with horror at the thought > of calling tech support now. First seek support from the particular tracker site. They will often be able to show you as "connectible" or "not connectible" from their point of view. Or they may provide a link to a third-party site that can check this condition. On port 49152, what protocol(s) are enabled by your floppy-based firewall? Some tracker sites want tcp and/or udp enabled. Just go to the tracker site and look at their FAQs or support forum. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 17:28:43 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 13:28:43 -0400 Subject: Ethernet autonegotiate vs forcing full speed In-Reply-To: <20070525150642.GC5789-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070525150642.GC5789@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <22e435080705251028x5519f7d7nfb96415240f7ac6e@mail.gmail.com> On 5/25/07, Neil Watson wrote: > There is debate at work regarding network Ethernet auto-negotiation. So I am not alone in my suffering ... maybe we should start a support group for recovering speed and duplex hard coders. Migrating everything to auto can be a struggle in certain environments especially with legacy equipment both on the server and networking equipment side. God forbid ppl actually have to do work and change stuff and make the auto-negotiation actually work properly and confirm that it has worked. As Len mentioned gigabit pretty much eliminates these problems and all the vendors appear to be onboard and building stuff that conforms to the standards. I have noticed that most stuff both server and networking wise doesn't even give you an option to hard code stuff anymore ... if it is gigabit auto is the only option ... thanks god. So now all we need to do is get everything upgraded to gigabit, simple right :). SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 17:31:52 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 13:31:52 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy and Bittorrent In-Reply-To: <46571B82.6040005-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070525111054.0aa0937e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070525154512.GB13297@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070525124732.409b7824@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46571B82.6040005@primus.ca> Message-ID: <20070525133152.3e2e40aa@node1.freeyourmachine.org> George Nicol left a post-it on the fridge: > > As another Teksavvy customer, I can tell you that > > there is no problem with bittorrent on their system. > > Can we assume, then, that you're not behind a Teksavvy proxy? > > > at least I'm not filled with horror at the thought > > of calling tech support now. > > First seek support from the particular tracker site. They will often be > able to show you as "connectible" or "not connectible" from their point > of view. Or they may provide a link to a third-party site that can check > this condition. > > On port 49152, what protocol(s) are enabled by your floppy-based > firewall? Some tracker sites want tcp and/or udp enabled. I've got both tcp and udp, with tcp being first in the list if that matters. Azureus uses udp for its distributed database functionality. > Just go to the tracker site and look at their FAQs or support forum. I'll check that out, thanks. I've been doing some tinkering, and the same behaviour is exhibited whether I use the default port or not, and also by three different clients (azureus, bittornado, and bittorrent-console). Torrents tried are from a variety of sources. This is really weird :-\ Thanks again :) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: Pardon me, brother. Care to donate to the anti-mugging you fund? Leela: We don't need to beg, Bender. For God's sake, we're not veterans. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 18:53:06 2007 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 14:53:06 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy and Bittorrent In-Reply-To: <20070525133152.3e2e40aa-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20070525111054.0aa0937e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070525154512.GB13297@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070525124732.409b7824@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46571B82.6040005@primus.ca> <20070525133152.3e2e40aa@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <46573092.1060108@primus.ca> JoeHill wrote: > I've got both tcp and udp, with tcp being > first in the list if that matters. Order is of no consequence. > Azureus uses udp for its distributed database functionality. DHT is a security hazard - dangerous to *you* - and some private trackers demand that DHT be disabled. It's a slightly complicated procedure to disable DHT in Azureus. Some private trackers provide a howto, again, in their FAQs or support forum. I can provide the info, if needed. Additionally, you may want to install the SafePeer plugin. > the same behaviour is exhibited whether I use the default port > or not, Most trackers blacklist the BT default port because the majority of ISPs block it and many others these days. The tracker FAQ usually says so. > and also by three different clients (azureus, bittornado, and > bittorrent-console). Torrents tried are from a variety of sources. You can test if your system is connectible at NatCheck: http://btfaq.com/natcheck.pl This will verify that port forwarding is set up correctly. Unfortunately the service is frequently down. Like now. Your port can also be tested at Gibson Research's "ShieldsUp!": https://www.grc.com/x/portprobe=, where is the port that you are using for your BitTorrent data. If it reports that the port is "Open", then your port forwarding is working okay. If it reports that the port status is "Stealth" or "Closed", then the port is not open and your system will not be connectible for BitTorrent communications. http://www.portforward.com has detailed information on setting up port forwarding for a large number of different routers and it also has information on setting up a static IP address in your computer. To find out if you're behind a (transparent/anonymous) proxy, try ProxyJudge: http://proxyjudge.org/ It lists the HTTP headers that the server where it is running received from you. The relevant ones are HTTP_CLIENT_IP, HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR and REMOTE_ADDR. This is really weird :-\ Quite common, actually. > Thanks again :) Welcome. Good luck. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 19:42:44 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 15:42:44 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy and Bittorrent In-Reply-To: <46573092.1060108-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070525111054.0aa0937e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070525154512.GB13297@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070525124732.409b7824@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46571B82.6040005@primus.ca> <20070525133152.3e2e40aa@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46573092.1060108@primus.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420705251242u5d5509dw147428127a14045f@mail.gmail.com> On 5/25/07, George Nicol wrote: > DHT is a security hazard - dangerous to *you* Could you elaborate on that, or provide a link that elaborates? Why is the DHT a security hazard? I've googled "bittorrent dht security risk" and there's plenty of discussion regarding the risks of bittorrent, but nothing seems to mention the DHT in particular. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 21:17:46 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 17:17:46 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy and Bittorrent In-Reply-To: <46573092.1060108-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070525111054.0aa0937e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070525154512.GB13297@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070525124732.409b7824@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46571B82.6040005@primus.ca> <20070525133152.3e2e40aa@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46573092.1060108@primus.ca> Message-ID: <20070525171746.55c09536@node1.freeyourmachine.org> George Nicol left a post-it on the fridge: > JoeHill wrote: > > I've got both tcp and udp, with tcp being first in the list if that > > matters. > > Order is of no consequence. Hey, you never know...well, no, *I* never know ;) > > Azureus uses udp for its distributed database functionality. > > DHT is a security hazard - dangerous to *you* - and some private > trackers demand that DHT be disabled. It's a slightly complicated > procedure to disable DHT in Azureus. Some private trackers provide a > howto, again, in their FAQs or support forum. I can provide the info, if > needed. Ah, okay, the Azureus docs, IIRC, were trumpeting the many benefits of using DHT. I'll check the trackers I'm using on that, I had no idea it was an opening for little net thugs. > Additionally, you may want to install the SafePeer plugin. Will do, as soon as the modem connects again. This is another leftover from Sympatico, it may even be related to the problem I'm having with bittorrent, they started around the same time. > > the same behaviour is exhibited whether I use the default port > > or not, > > Most trackers blacklist the BT default port because the majority of ISPs > block it and many others these days. The tracker FAQ usually says so. I only used the default to as a test, I've been using ports above 50000 for quite some time. All of them give the same result now, though :-\ > > and also by three different clients (azureus, bittornado, and > > bittorrent-console). Torrents tried are from a variety of sources. > > You can test if your system is connectible at NatCheck: > http://btfaq.com/natcheck.pl > This will verify that port forwarding is set up correctly. > Unfortunately the service is frequently down. Like now. > > Your port can also be tested at Gibson Research's "ShieldsUp!": > https://www.grc.com/x/portprobe=, > where is the port that you are using for your BitTorrent > data. If it reports that the port is "Open", then your port forwarding > is working okay. If it reports that the port status is "Stealth" or > "Closed", then the port is not open and your system will not be > connectible for BitTorrent communications. That guy's still around?? Jeez, I was a 'fan' way back in the old days...7 years ago ;) Shows 'Open!', so that matches what Azureus has been showing the last few hours. > http://www.portforward.com has detailed information on setting up port > forwarding for a large number of different routers and it also has > information on setting up a static IP address in your computer. Ah, that's another difference, isn't it? Never thought of that. On a static IP now, but I'm not sure what would be different in Bittorrent. Portforward has nothing on my router, not surprised, it's this thing: http://www.bbiagent.net/ It doesn't say anything about a static IP on Linux (Win and Mac only), but these instructions seem to refer to computers that are connected directly to the 'Net, no? > To find out if you're behind a (transparent/anonymous) proxy, try > ProxyJudge: http://proxyjudge.org/ > It lists the HTTP headers that the server where it is running received > from you. The relevant ones are HTTP_CLIENT_IP, HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR and > REMOTE_ADDR. Now this is interesting. I don't see anything like HTTP_CLIENT_IP or HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR. I do see REMOTE_ADDR, which is different from my local IP of course, and this: # REMOTE_HOST Result Comment Maybe no problem. # HTTP Env. Value Result Via a Proxy Comment Dubious valuable is detected. # AnonyLevel : 4 If it is not slow, it is useful. This is completely new to me. I see there are settings in Azureus for using a proxy, I'm assuming from the results from proxyjudge that REMOTE_ADDR is the address of the proxy? >> This is really weird :-\ > > Quite common, actually. Weird for me in the sense that my bittorrent setup was working just peachy for a couple of years like this, then everything just went in the crapper. At first I blamed Sympatico... now I *definitely* blame Sympatico ;) Thanks for all the info, some great leads to follow. Much appreciated! -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: Oh, Lord, I'm on the verge of a nervous melt-down. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 21:24:16 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 17:24:16 -0400 Subject: What's up, prox In-Reply-To: <46564D13.4040301-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <46564D13.4040301@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070525212416.GD10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 10:42:27PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Management at a client is noticing a few employees doing a few things with > their time that they ought not to be doing. > > This let to a suggestion of a system that will > > - force web browsing through a Squid/dansguardian setup > - either block MSN or force it through 'msngrep', based on internal IP address > - probably toss in some intrusion detection for good measure > > While the client already has a Symantec firewall appliance in place, I > thought that a Linux-based firewall system would be the best way to > implement this in a manner that could not be circumvented by users. > Just do the rules to force selected traffic through the appropriate > proxies. Well you can certainly forward all outgoing http connections to a squid proxy configured to work as a transparent proxy. You can then add sites that should be blocked the proxy. No idea what MSN uses or how one blocks that. I am a firm believer in "IDS doesn't and can't work". Good way to generate tons of false positive noise to filter through though. I have also given up on Symantec. Their software is just too buggy, uses too many resources, and just isn't worth it anymore. It isn't like the good old days when norton utilities and such just worked and didn't waste lots of resources to do it. > This leads to a few choices: > > 1) Ubuntu or Smoothwall? > > Is it better to get and hack a distribution designed solely to be a > firewall, or to set up a general purpose distro to be one? The reviews of > Smoothwall look interesting, however it seems that the free version misses > some of the features I want ("SmoothGuardian" is part of the commercial > non-free enhanced product). I look at > http://www.smoothwall.net/products/comparison.gpl.php and fear that the > GPL version is just a bit too crippled -- and that making changes that > deviate from the core not only makes support difficult, but also require > command-line tuning that's the opposite of the system's whole GUI-friendly > approach. Dan's Guardian is just another package in the Ubuntu repository > universe. Well of those I would pick Ubuntu, partly because I am a Debian fan, and because that means there are so many packages available in case you would ever want the box to have other duties. > 2) If Ubuntu: shorewall, firestarter or something else? > > If I choose to use a general purpose distro for my platform, there are a > number of possible front ends to iptables. Does anyone here have > experience with (or better, a logic-based preference) the shorewall, > firestarter or other iptables frontends? I have been using shorewall as my firewall for quite a while. I like how it works. > 3) Is there a better approach to doing this? Tell people not to do something and just trust them not to? You might upset people if you implement something that obviously say you don't trust them to follow the rules. Much less work too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 21:47:55 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 17:47:55 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy and Bittorrent In-Reply-To: <20070525171746.55c09536-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20070525111054.0aa0937e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070525154512.GB13297@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070525124732.409b7824@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46571B82.6040005@primus.ca> <20070525133152.3e2e40aa@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46573092.1060108@primus.ca> <20070525171746.55c09536@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <4657598B.4050305@pppoe.ca> JoeHill wrote: >> Ah, that's another difference, isn't it? Never thought of that. On a static IP >> now, but I'm not sure what would be different in Bittorrent. >> >> Portforward has nothing on my router, not surprised, it's this thing: >> >> http://www.bbiagent.net/ >> >> It doesn't say anything about a static IP on Linux (Win and Mac only), but these >> instructions seem to refer to computers that are connected directly to the >> 'Net, no? >> The link below may be helpful, YMMV :-) http://btfaq.com/serve/cache/25.html Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 23:44:36 2007 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 19:44:36 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy and Bittorrent In-Reply-To: <7ac602420705251242u5d5509dw147428127a14045f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070525111054.0aa0937e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070525154512.GB13297@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070525124732.409b7824@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46571B82.6040005@primus.ca> <20070525133152.3e2e40aa@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46573092.1060108@primus.ca> <7ac602420705251242u5d5509dw147428127a14045f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <465774E4.8020005@primus.ca> George Nicol wrote: > DHT is a security hazard - dangerous to *you* Ian Petersen wrote: >> Could you elaborate on that, or provide a link that elaborates? >> Why is the DHT a security hazard? I should have made it clear that DHT is a security risk to registered users on a *private* torrent tracker. Also, some BT clients implement DHT, some don't, and some implement it better than others. If you're sharing Linux ISO torrents, for example, DHT is a Good Thing. DHT stands for Distributed Hash Table. It is a database used by some BitTorrent clients to share torrents without the presence of a tracker. DHT is useful, then, to continue torrent sharing among peers without interruption if the public tracker should fall over or be taken down for maintenance. DHT should always be disabled in your BitTorrent client if you are using a private tracker, as it can create problems for private trackers. DHT allows connecting to clients which are not registered with the tracker, which will result in invalid statistics. Bad statistics, aka a share ratio < 1.0, will result in a user being banned from a private tracker site. It is possible for Azureus to report a share much > 1.0 but the private tracker only logs traffic between peers known to itself and thus may report a share ratio much < 1.0. DHT can allow for leakage of private information. Private trackers commonly use a unique 32-bit passkey that's linked to the User ID and the torrent being shared. The passkey should only be known to the user and the private tracker. It should never be shared with anyone else. When you initially download a .torrent file from a private tracker, your passkey is added to the .torrent you receive. Now your .torrent file is unique and, because it contains your passkey, it should never be shared either. DHT can enable a knowledgeable hit-and-run leecher to discover your passkey, pose as you, snatch torrents with impunity, share little or nothing back, and destroy your share ratio. You may even be able to watch your share ratio tank and be powerless to do anything about it. DHT can also result in an overload of UDP traffic, which can cause problems for Internet connections and routers. Clear as mud, right? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat May 26 00:06:34 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 20:06:34 -0400 Subject: Ethernet autonegotiate vs forcing full speed In-Reply-To: <20070525150642.GC5789-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070525150642.GC5789@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <200705252006.34224.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Friday 25 May 2007 11:06:42 Neil Watson wrote: > There is debate at work regarding network Ethernet auto-negotiation. > I'm the newcomer. Historically they say they had problems with auto-neg > and their cisco gear (catalist) and now manually set all switch ports > and server NICs to full/full. I've never heard of such a policy. It I worked for a large company that had big blue managing the network. We had to force to 100FD otherwise the NICs would always negotiate to a lower rate (IIRC it was 10HD though it could have been 100HD). I was quite surprised when I encountered this as I'd never dreamed of forcing NIC speed before and had never had trouble with auto-auto on any number of non-"Enterprise" switches. I don't know if it was an issue with Cisco or just the way the switches had been configured ... either way I wasn't in the position to fight the machine. Where I'm currently working we also use Cisco gear and we use auto-auto everywhere without problems (typically the same HP server models that I was using at that other place). One difference is that almost all of the links at the new place are gigabit. I have been told by some that gigabit must use autoneg, it cannot be forced ... not certain that is true, I'd think it mostly depends on how the network guys configure the switches. -- Fraser Campbell Georgetown, Ontario, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat May 26 01:59:43 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 21:59:43 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070522225409.4ec00a86@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705230915q39ee970dwb37568d61f325583@mail.gmail.com> <20070523211003.7f3c4970@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1e55af990705240019s3ef66962l1939585a22092c53@mail.gmail.com> <20070524142741.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241026s33b63768g8904baf4b5a13447@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <20070525215943.6ecf917b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Christopher Browne left a post-it on the fridge: > On 5/25/07, John Van Ostrand wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-05-25 at 09:56 -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > > I may be sorry to mention this, but an excellent example of this mistake > > > (IMO) was the reaction of some on the community to the Microsoft Vista > > > launch. Stand on the corner across the street, demonstrate, inflate a > > > big penguin, and hand out CDs. It certainly made the participants feel > > > good (look how many brochures we burned through!) and was great for peer > > > recognition (participants later judged the event a success because > > > photos of it found their way onto social websites). But the net real > > > effect of that event, to get more open source use in Toronto, was near > > > zero. Make no mistake, this event was done for the benefit of the people > > > doing it, not the target audience -- it served a purpose, to be sure, > > > but not the one stated. > > > > It's unfair to say that the Vista launch demonstration was ineffective > > because it had little effect. Virtually all individual ads have little > > effect. It's the sum of many ads that make the difference. The more > > people that see the inflated penguin pop-up, the more they will think of > > it when they see Linux. It's reinforcement. > > No, I think Evan is right about this. No, I think Evan has a pathological fixation, cannot let go of something that happened 4 months ago, and is in need of serious help, (much unlike me) ;) I didn't check, but did 'Ubuntu Fanboy' come up yet? -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: Life is hilariously cruel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat May 26 03:07:18 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 23:07:18 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy and Bittorrent In-Reply-To: <46573092.1060108-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070525111054.0aa0937e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070525154512.GB13297@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070525124732.409b7824@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46571B82.6040005@primus.ca> <20070525133152.3e2e40aa@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46573092.1060108@primus.ca> Message-ID: <20070525230718.2c4c7b88@node1.freeyourmachine.org> George Nicol left a post-it on the fridge: > http://www.portforward.com has detailed information on setting up port > forwarding for a large number of different routers and it also has > information on setting up a static IP address in your computer. > > To find out if you're behind a (transparent/anonymous) proxy, try > ProxyJudge: http://proxyjudge.org/ > It lists the HTTP headers that the server where it is running received > from you. The relevant ones are HTTP_CLIENT_IP, HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR and > REMOTE_ADDR. This is getting interesting...I think, I may be completely misunderstanding something here. My static IP, given to me by Teksavvy, is entered into the router's setup config as a 'fixed IP'. However, in the status section, it has a different IP. Also, the remote IP shown by my router is different than the one shown by proxyjudge... Is my old clunker of a firewall/router the thing giving me all this grief? I know, I know, I'll call Teksavvy tech support, but now, unlike with calling Sympatico, I'm afraid *I'll* be the one sounding like an id10t this time ;) Thanks for these links, they're freaking me out totally, but that's a sign I might just learn somethin' eh? -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "Aw, poor baby, chipped a fang." -Leela "Hey, I got a busted ass here! I don't see anyone kissing it." -Bender "All right, I'm coming." -Zoidberg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat May 26 04:34:57 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 00:34:57 -0400 Subject: CAT6 cable by the roll In-Reply-To: <465709A9.2000608-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <465709A9.2000608@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4657B8F1.2010807@utoronto.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > David J Patrick wrote: >> I need another roll of network cable. >> First of all, is cat6 the same as cat5, but higher specs ? >> and secondly, >> where is a god place to buy that sort of thing ? >> Sonham ? >> Active Surplus ? >> Above All electronics ? >> somewheres else ? >> >> djp >> > > I've gotten stuff from Noramco before. Decent price and good quality. > > For most purposes, Cat5e will be just fine. As has been said, Cat6 is > just a higher standard. Unless you are wiring one heck of a network, you > will probably be perfectly happy with Cat5e (unshielded, unless you will > be running near nasty EMI). Here we are: http://www.connectworld.net/syscon/support.htm "1. What is the difference between CAT-5, CAT-5e, CAT-6, CAT-7... The Simple Answer: CAT-5 is rated to 100M CAT-5e is rated to 350M CAT-6 and CAT6e is rated to 550M or 1000M depending on your source CAT-7 is supposedly rated to 700M or presumably 1000M" I hadn't heard of the 6e variety. What is so enhanced (and how) where the e designator is present anyways? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat May 26 05:21:21 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 01:21:21 -0400 Subject: CAT6 cable by the roll In-Reply-To: <4657B8F1.2010807-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <465709A9.2000608@alteeve.com> <4657B8F1.2010807@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4657C3D1.5080103@utoronto.ca> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Here we are: http://www.connectworld.net/syscon/support.htm > > "1. What is the difference between CAT-5, CAT-5e, CAT-6, CAT-7... > > The Simple Answer: > CAT-5 is rated to 100M > CAT-5e is rated to 350M > CAT-6 and CAT6e is rated to 550M or 1000M depending on your source > CAT-7 is supposedly rated to 700M or presumably 1000M" > > I hadn't heard of the 6e variety. What is so enhanced (and how) where > the e designator is present anyways? I had heard of CAT-6e but my BlackBox catalogue doesn't mention it. BTW all the Ms above are MHz. The BlackBox catalogue does mention CAT-6a and CAT-7 as proposed standards. These standards define the electrical perfomance of these cables. CAT-6a introduces a new measurement to the standard called Alien Cross-Talk. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Sat May 26 07:07:47 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 09:07:47 +0200 Subject: way OT - alt. sites streaming the stanley cup ? Message-ID: <4657DCC3.7060905@visible-assets.com> Does anyone know of a site that will be streaming the Stanley Cup other than CBC.ca ? Normally I would just check out CBC.ca but they apparently don't stream to anyone outside of Canada, from what their website says when I try to view archived games. Of course, the site would have to be linux friendly :) Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 26 11:53:37 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 07:53:37 -0400 Subject: CAT6 cable by the roll In-Reply-To: <4657B8F1.2010807-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <465709A9.2000608@alteeve.com> <4657B8F1.2010807@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <46581FC1.5030303@rogers.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> David J Patrick wrote: >>> I need another roll of network cable. >>> First of all, is cat6 the same as cat5, but higher specs ? >>> and secondly, >>> where is a god place to buy that sort of thing ? >>> Sonham ? >>> Active Surplus ? >>> Above All electronics ? >>> somewheres else ? >>> >>> djp >>> >> >> I've gotten stuff from Noramco before. Decent price and good quality. >> >> For most purposes, Cat5e will be just fine. As has been said, Cat6 is >> just a higher standard. Unless you are wiring one heck of a network, >> you will probably be perfectly happy with Cat5e (unshielded, unless >> you will be running near nasty EMI). > > Here we are: http://www.connectworld.net/syscon/support.htm > > "1. What is the difference between CAT-5, CAT-5e, CAT-6, CAT-7... > > The Simple Answer: > CAT-5 is rated to 100M > CAT-5e is rated to 350M > CAT-6 and CAT6e is rated to 550M or 1000M depending on your source > CAT-7 is supposedly rated to 700M or presumably 1000M" > > I hadn't heard of the 6e variety. What is so enhanced (and how) where > the e designator is present anyways? > What do you mean by "M" in the above? If metres, you're wrong. Also, "e" refers to "enhanced". -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 27 03:32:48 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 23:32:48 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <20070525033118.GA1668-70WplSiaoiAG/9ncUZ6upg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070524142304.GS10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070524160504.GA1145@thecat.localnet> <4655DC65.7060003@rogers.com> <20070524213649.GA1422@thecat.localnet> <002101c79e7a$3ea3cf30$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070525033118.GA1668@thecat.localnet> Message-ID: <009401c7a00f$b31686a0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> LOL Sorry.. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Allen > Taylor > Sent: May 24, 2007 11:31 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers > > On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 11:10:26PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > This is true if you are routing directly to those IP Addresses. I am > not. I > > am natting them at my gateway to internal IPs which gives me access to > all > > 7. > > True. In our case, direct routing was a lot simpler for our needs. > > Are we far enough off topic from the original question? :-) > > Allen > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Allen > > > Taylor > > > Sent: May 24, 2007 5:37 PM > > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers > > > > > > On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 02:41:41PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > > > > Allen Taylor wrote: > > > > >On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 10:23:04AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > > > > > > > >>On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 12:11:13AM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>>I am running FreeBSD 6.2 using teksavvy and its been great. I > also > > > have 7 > > > > >>>IPs from them. The 7 IPs with a 5M connection costs as much as a > bell > > > > >>>connection. > > > > >>> > > > > >>>Also, they don't block any ports. Both Bell and Rogers block lots > of > > > > >>>services. > > > > >>> > > > > >>Does 7 IPs mean an IP for PPPoE plus a /29 block routed to you > through > > > > >>the main IP? > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >My wife's church has a /29 from Teksavvy. Supposed to be 6 IPs but > as > > > > >you note the router (a Debian box) is assigned a PPPoE address. So > far > > > > >it has always been assigned the same IP addr for PPPoE so I can > access > > > > >it remotely by the PPPoE addr or by its assigned /29 subnet > address. So > > > > >even though (6 + PPPoE =) 7 IP addrs are assigned, only the 6 on > the > > > /29 > > > > >are really useful (unless I really really screw up the routing and > > > can't > > > > >get to it by its /29 addr! :-) ). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With a /29 subnet mask, you've got 8 addresses. Of those 8, 1 is > the > > > > network address and one the broadcast. That leaves 6 addresses for > your > > > > use. > > > > > > Exactly! And one of those 6 has to be assigned to the router leaving 5 > > > assignable to other servers on the sub-net. > > > > > > The (sub) discussion started with the assertion that 7 IP addresses > were > > > assigned by Teksavvy - but one is in fact the PPPoE address. > > > > > > Allen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun May 27 21:11:28 2007 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 17:11:28 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy and Bittorrent In-Reply-To: <20070525230718.2c4c7b88-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20070525111054.0aa0937e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070525154512.GB13297@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070525124732.409b7824@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46571B82.6040005@primus.ca> <20070525133152.3e2e40aa@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46573092.1060108@primus.ca> <20070525230718.2c4c7b88@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <4659F400.30506@golden.net> JoeHill wrote: > George Nicol left a post-it on the fridge: > > >> http://www.portforward.com has detailed information on setting up port >> forwarding for a large number of different routers and it also has >> information on setting up a static IP address in your computer. >> >> To find out if you're behind a (transparent/anonymous) proxy, try >> ProxyJudge: http://proxyjudge.org/ >> It lists the HTTP headers that the server where it is running received >> from you. The relevant ones are HTTP_CLIENT_IP, HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR and >> REMOTE_ADDR. >> > > This is getting interesting...I think, I may be completely misunderstanding > something here. > > My static IP, given to me by Teksavvy, is entered into the router's setup > config as a 'fixed IP'. However, in the status section, it has a different IP. > Also, the remote IP shown by my router is different than the one shown by > proxyjudge... > > Is my old clunker of a firewall/router the thing giving me all this grief? I > know, I know, I'll call Teksavvy tech support, but now, unlike with calling > Sympatico, I'm afraid *I'll* be the one sounding like an id10t this time ;) > > Thanks for these links, they're freaking me out totally, but that's a sign I > might just learn somethin' eh? > > This is very interesting considering on Proxyjudge a default Konqueror gave me 2. I normally use Iceweasel or Epiphany both gave 4. I got some reading to do as well. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 28 14:10:37 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 10:10:37 -0400 Subject: CAT6 cable by the roll In-Reply-To: <4657B8F1.2010807-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <465709A9.2000608@alteeve.com> <4657B8F1.2010807@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070528141036.GE10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 26, 2007 at 12:34:57AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Here we are: http://www.connectworld.net/syscon/support.htm > > "1. What is the difference between CAT-5, CAT-5e, CAT-6, CAT-7... > > The Simple Answer: > CAT-5 is rated to 100M > CAT-5e is rated to 350M > CAT-6 and CAT6e is rated to 550M or 1000M depending on your source > CAT-7 is supposedly rated to 700M or presumably 1000M" > > I hadn't heard of the 6e variety. What is so enhanced (and how) where > the e designator is present anyways? So 5e should be more than plenty for Gbit ethernet. Gbit runs 4 pairs, each at 125MHz, with transfers on both clock edges, so 4 * 2 * 125MHz = 1Gbit/s. Of course it both sends and receives on each pair so the overlapping signals may cause interesting other frequencies, but 5e should be plenty, and 6 even better. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 28 14:24:12 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 10:24:12 -0400 Subject: CAT6 cable by the roll In-Reply-To: <20070528141036.GE10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <465709A9.2000608@alteeve.com> <4657B8F1.2010807@utoronto.ca> <20070528141036.GE10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <465AE60C.1080709@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, May 26, 2007 at 12:34:57AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > >> Here we are: http://www.connectworld.net/syscon/support.htm >> >> "1. What is the difference between CAT-5, CAT-5e, CAT-6, CAT-7... >> >> The Simple Answer: >> CAT-5 is rated to 100M >> CAT-5e is rated to 350M >> CAT-6 and CAT6e is rated to 550M or 1000M depending on your source >> CAT-7 is supposedly rated to 700M or presumably 1000M" >> >> I hadn't heard of the 6e variety. What is so enhanced (and how) where >> the e designator is present anyways? >> > > So 5e should be more than plenty for Gbit ethernet. Gbit runs 4 pairs, > each at 125MHz, with transfers on both clock edges, so 4 * 2 * 125MHz = > 1Gbit/s. Of course it both sends and receives on each pair so the > overlapping signals may cause interesting other frequencies, but 5e > should be plenty, and 6 even better. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > There shouldn't be "interesting other frequencies" unless there's some non-linear device in the circuit. So, if you're getting that, I'd look for a bad connection or defective NIC. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 02:53:05 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 22:53:05 -0400 Subject: Where to buy Nokia 770 or N800 Internet Tablet PC in Toronto Message-ID: <200705282253.06044.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Hi, Anyone know where to buy one of these or any other comparable devices in Toronto? -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 03:41:52 2007 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 23:41:52 -0400 Subject: Where to buy Nokia 770 or N800 Internet Tablet PC in Toronto In-Reply-To: <200705282253.06044.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200705282253.06044.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <465BA100.4040004@the-wire.com> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Anyone know where to buy one of these or any other comparable devices > in Toronto? For quite a while I couldn't get in to the Nokia Canada web site through the front door, but it looks like they've fixed something. http://www.nokia.ca/english/products/N800/N800.asp offers to sell N800s on-line. Cheers, Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 03:20:23 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 23:20:23 -0400 Subject: Where to buy Nokia 770 or N800 Internet Tablet PC in Toronto In-Reply-To: <200705282253.06044.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200705282253.06044.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <465B9BF7.9030206@telly.org> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Anyone know where to buy one of these or any other comparable devices in Toronto? > Last I checked with Nokia Canada a few weeks ago, the N800 is not (yet officially) available here, and you'll need to go to US sources (which include being able to buy it directly from the website of Nokia US at http://www.nokiausa.com/N800). Don't know about stores that carry the 770, but it is available on the Internet for $289CDN - http://www.expansys.ca/p.aspx?i=141019 - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 03:51:42 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 23:51:42 -0400 Subject: Where to buy Nokia 770 or N800 Internet Tablet PC in Toronto In-Reply-To: <200705282253.06044.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200705282253.06044.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On 5/28/07, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Hi, > > Anyone know where to buy one of these or any other comparable devices > in Toronto? Both are listed as available at TigerDirect.ca (search for Nokia, then look at the category "PDAs/PocketPC"). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 15:59:24 2007 From: myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles A. Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 11:59:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Where to buy Nokia 770 or N800 Internet Tablet PC in Toronto In-Reply-To: <200705282253.06044.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200705282253.06044.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <17615225.1071180454364034.JavaMail.root@mail> I just order mine directly from Nokia Canada (nokia.ca). ----- "CLIFFORD ILKAY" wrote: > Hi, > > Anyone know where to buy one of these or any other comparable devices > > in Toronto? > -- > Regards, > > Clifford Ilkay > Dinamis Corporation > 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 > Toronto, ON > Canada M4N 3P6 > > > +1 416-410-3326 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Myles A. Braithwaite Monkey in your Soul myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 16:53:34 2007 From: jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 12:53:34 -0400 Subject: screensaver software Message-ID: <465C5A8E.4040101@totaltravelmarketing.com> Hi List, I've been looking around for a linux software to create screensaver, nothing fanzy, just add a few pics and make it a saver, but I haven't been able to find anything but software for Windows, any idea wher to find something like that? Thanks in advance for your advice. Jose -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 17:38:13 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 13:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: checking a burned CD against an ISO In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705222055i4234e451i7d9420be6f407701-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705222055i4234e451i7d9420be6f407701@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Sy Ali | Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 23:55:47 -0400 Oops -- I'm a week late. | Because of some odd issue with k3b not verifying a burned disk, I went | ahead and explored a better way to compare the disk. This is a longstanding annoyance with Linux. Here's something I wrote about it on the Fedora list (see the rest of the thread too): http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2007-May/msg01261.html - I don't use md5sum to check CDs if I have a .iso on the hard drive. I just use cmp(1). An undocumented feature of GNU cmp is that it can be told how many bytes to compare (--bytes=). This avoids the need for dd / head and a pipe. Too bad md5sum doesn't have such a feature. - when I burn CDs, I pad them (see the fedora message). This prevents Linux's readahead getting spurious I/O errors. - the isosize(8) command is handy for finding the size of the actual .iso structure (not including any padding) | DISK_MD5=`dd if=$DEVICE | head -c $FILESIZE | md5sum` Piping a whole CD or DVD can make a Linux box sluggish (I haven't tried it in a while so this may have been fixed). My superstitious guess is that it pointlessly evicts useful stuff from the buffer cache for data that is only going to be used once. Piping it twice is probably worse! The dd can do the function of head. You just have to frame it in terms of bs= and count=. CDs normally have a blocksize of 2048 so the size ought to be a multiple of 2048; isosize will even do division for you! Untested: COUNT=`isosize -d 2048 $DEVICE` DISK_MD5=`dd if=$DEVICE bs=2048 count=$COUNT | md5sum` (You can determine the blocksize via isosize if you wish to be more careful.) BTW, the dd you used ought to provoke the read-ahead problem, even with padding. It reads until "the end". A dd with appropriate bs and count will not get into trouble if there is padding. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 17:53:48 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 13:53:48 -0400 Subject: screensaver software In-Reply-To: <465C5A8E.4040101-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <465C5A8E.4040101@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <465C68AC.7050309@ve3syb.ca> Jose wrote: > I've been looking around for a linux software to create screensaver, > nothing fanzy, just add a few pics and make it a saver, but I haven't > been able to find anything but software for Windows, any idea wher to > find something like that? Why do you need to create your own screen saver? Why not just use the GLSlideshow mode in the standard xscreensaver package? -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 18:38:11 2007 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 14:38:11 -0400 Subject: Sound Message-ID: Hey everyone, I have a sneaky feeling that the solution to my music deprived soul is simple. But for the life of me, I can't figure it out. I just upgraded my Toshiba Satellite P-100 laptop to ubuntu feisty fawn. The new kernel 2.6.20 seemed to offer the hope of getting the sound card to work. Alas I have not had any success. The info from the following commands follow: rjonasz at foucault:~$ lspci -vv | grep Audio 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) High Definition Audio Controller (rev 02) rjonasz at foucault:~$ cat /proc/asound/cards 0 [Intel ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel HDA Intel at 0xd0340000 irq 22 rjonasz at foucault:~$ aplay -l **** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices **** card 0: Intel [HDA Intel], device 0: CONEXANT Analog [CONEXANT Analog] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 card 0: Intel [HDA Intel], device 1: Conexant Digital [Conexant Digital] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 I've used alsamixer to un/mute the master and moved pcm to 100. Nothing. Does anyone have any suggestions I could try? Cheers, Randy -- Oscar Developer McMaster University 75 Frid Street, Hamilton, ON 905 525 9140 x27735 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 19:26:25 2007 From: jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 15:26:25 -0400 Subject: screensaver software In-Reply-To: <465C68AC.7050309-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <465C5A8E.4040101@totaltravelmarketing.com> <465C68AC.7050309@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <465C7E61.3050405@totaltravelmarketing.com> Kevin Cozens wrote: > Jose wrote: >> I've been looking around for a linux software to create screensaver, >> nothing fanzy, just add a few pics and make it a saver, but I haven't >> been able to find anything but software for Windows, any idea wher to >> find something like that? > > Why do you need to create your own screen saver? Why not just use the > GLSlideshow mode in the standard xscreensaver package? > I was unaware of that package, I would try it tonight, thanks Kevin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 20:28:41 2007 From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 16:28:41 -0400 Subject: getting data out: mysql -> csv Message-ID: <465C8CF9.9010505@xtrinsic.com> Good afternoon, I'm in the process of trying to yank content out of one CMS and into another CMS. The import function on the new CMS requires that the data be in a CSV. This should be 'easy'... except the data contains new lines and tabs (apparently) because each time I try to export the data, it doesn't play nicely as a CSV. I've tried googling "mysql export csv" and found the following: http://forums.mysql.com/read.php?79,11324,13062#msg-13062 I don't have the select into outfile flag and http://tlug.dnho.net/?q=node/209 The explanation of the sed cleanup is wrong, I know. In the first option there is a follow-up question which is exactly the same as mine... "what if there are characters in the data which are the same characters that are to be used as delimiters?" I've asked the techs to enable the "select into outfile" option for me.. but in the mean time, my question remains: how do you get HTML fragments (especially when there are new lines, tabs and quotes as part of the data) out of a MySQL table and into a CSV? regards, emma -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 21:08:34 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 17:08:34 -0400 Subject: Where to buy Nokia 770 or N800 Internet Tablet PC in Toronto In-Reply-To: <200705282253.06044.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200705282253.06044.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <465C9652.5050006@rogers.com> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Hi, > > Anyone know where to buy one of these or any other comparable devices > in Toronto? > I ordered my N800 from the nokia.ca web site. You can also get them from Tiger Direct, but it will cost almost $70 more and it will have to be sent to the U.S. for any warranty work. If you get it from Nokia Canada, it would go to Ajax Ont. for repair. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 21:10:21 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 17:10:21 -0400 Subject: Where to buy Nokia 770 or N800 Internet Tablet PC in Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <200705282253.06044.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <465C96BD.8050305@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 5/28/07, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Anyone know where to buy one of these or any other comparable devices >> in Toronto? > > Both are listed as available at TigerDirect.ca (search for Nokia, then > look at the category "PDAs/PocketPC"). > Tiger will cost almost $70 more than direct from nokia.ca and warranty work is done in the U.S. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 21:25:10 2007 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 17:25:10 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <46557AD3.6020104-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <465573E4.4010202@rogers.com> <465578D3.80903@primus.ca> <46557AD3.6020104@rogers.com> Message-ID: <465C9A36.3060106@primus.ca> James Knott wrote: > Now you again say "block". What is blocked, other than port 25? Today, Port 25. Tomorrow... whatever they choose. Their record speaks for itself. What speaks loudest is the Rogers TOS. Read it and weep. > What throttle are you referring to? "For the past 18 months, it has been an open secret that Rogers engages in packet shaping ... for certain services such as peer-to-peer file sharing applications. ROGERS DENIED THE PRACTICE AT FIRST, but effectively acknowledged it in late 2005. Net neutrality advocates regularly point to traffic shaping as a concern since they fear that Rogers could limit bandwidth to competing content or services. In response to the packet shaping approach, many file sharing applications now employ encryption to make it difficult to detect the contents of data packets. This has led to a technical "cat and mouse" game, with ROGERS NOW ONE OF THE ONLY ISPs IN THE WORLD TO SIMPLY DEGRADE ENCRYPTED TRAFFIC." - Michael Geist [emphasis mine] http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/1859/ "Rogers Has Resumed Throttling P2P with a VENGEANCE" posted by the Forum Moderator on February 10, 2007, at RBUA: http://www.rbua.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5677 > There was some mention of one in the paper a couple of weeks ago > and Rogers said it didn't happen Business as usual for both Rogers and Sympatico. Denial by default. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 21:15:49 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 17:15:49 -0400 Subject: getting data out: mysql -> csv In-Reply-To: <465C8CF9.9010505-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <465C8CF9.9010505@xtrinsic.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420705291415q22d0f899q50a24c2e44f1ad99@mail.gmail.com> On 5/29/07, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > how do you get HTML fragments (especially > when there are new lines, tabs and quotes as part of the data) out of a > MySQL table and into a CSV? There are probably lots of ways to do it, but my choice would be to write a script in Ruby to connect to the database and output CSV to stdout. Ruby has a CSV module that supports escaping characters and so on. If you like, you could even use ActiveRecord to connect to your database, but that might be overkill. There's probably an equivalent way to do it in Perl but I'm not familiar with it. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 21:40:15 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 17:40:15 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <20070525215943.6ecf917b-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070523211003.7f3c4970@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1e55af990705240019s3ef66962l1939585a22092c53@mail.gmail.com> <20070524142741.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241026s33b63768g8904baf4b5a13447@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070525215943.6ecf917b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0705291440w5363014crecbdb227c382f3eb@mail.gmail.com> On 5/25/07, JoeHill wrote: > Christopher Browne left a post-it on the fridge: > > > On 5/25/07, John Van Ostrand wrote: > > > On Fri, 2007-05-25 at 09:56 -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > > > I may be sorry to mention this, but an excellent example of this mistake > > > > (IMO) was the reaction of some on the community to the Microsoft Vista > > > > launch. Stand on the corner across the street, demonstrate, inflate a > > > > big penguin, and hand out CDs. It certainly made the participants feel > > > > good (look how many brochures we burned through!) and was great for peer > > > > recognition (participants later judged the event a success because > > > > photos of it found their way onto social websites). But the net real > > > > effect of that event, to get more open source use in Toronto, was near > > > > zero. Make no mistake, this event was done for the benefit of the people > > > > doing it, not the target audience -- it served a purpose, to be sure, > > > > but not the one stated. > > > > > > It's unfair to say that the Vista launch demonstration was ineffective > > > because it had little effect. Virtually all individual ads have little > > > effect. It's the sum of many ads that make the difference. The more > > > people that see the inflated penguin pop-up, the more they will think of > > > it when they see Linux. It's reinforcement. > > > > No, I think Evan is right about this. > > No, I think Evan has a pathological fixation, cannot let go of something that > happened 4 months ago, and is in need of serious help, (much unlike me) ;) FWIW, I think Evan has made some valid observations. Perhaps not "correct" to your point of view, but valid at least. I for one value Evan's input, along with all the others' - such as your own. What I would really like to see (and, as I'd hoped to point out in another branch of this conversation) is for the various, outspoken, components (alternatively, proponents) of our community working together to find an effective way to advertise our interests and concerns to the general public. -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 21:47:57 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 17:47:57 -0400 Subject: getting data out: mysql -> csv In-Reply-To: <7ac602420705291415q22d0f899q50a24c2e44f1ad99-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <465C8CF9.9010505@xtrinsic.com> <7ac602420705291415q22d0f899q50a24c2e44f1ad99@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0705291447o86433baj10d3df64bd667125@mail.gmail.com> On 5/29/07, Ian Petersen wrote: > On 5/29/07, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > > how do you get HTML fragments (especially > > when there are new lines, tabs and quotes as part of the data) out of a > > MySQL table and into a CSV? > > There are probably lots of ways to do it, but my choice would be to > write a script in Ruby to connect to the database and output CSV to > stdout. Ruby has a CSV module that supports escaping characters and > so on. If you like, you could even use ActiveRecord to connect to > your database, but that might be overkill. There's probably an > equivalent way to do it in Perl but I'm not familiar with it. There's at least one that I know of, but it's not "clean" and should not really be considered for production use. A set of modules I've been working on, SAL, (see http://gtalug.org/wiki/SAL for some incomplete documentation) is capable of exporting to CSV relatively quickly. Whether it is capable of doing what you need out-of-the-box is somewhat questionable however. Best of luck! -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 21:57:36 2007 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 17:57:36 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <465C9A36.3060106-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <465573E4.4010202@rogers.com> <465578D3.80903@primus.ca> <46557AD3.6020104@rogers.com> <465C9A36.3060106@primus.ca> Message-ID: On 5/29/07, George Nicol wrote: > > James Knott wrote: > > > Now you again say "block". What is blocked, other than port 25? > > Today, Port 25. Tomorrow... whatever they choose. Their record speaks > for itself. What speaks loudest is the Rogers TOS. Read it and weep. > > > What throttle are you referring to? > > "For the past 18 months, it has been an open secret that Rogers engages > in packet shaping ... for certain services such as peer-to-peer file > sharing applications. ROGERS DENIED THE PRACTICE AT FIRST, but > effectively acknowledged it in late 2005. Net neutrality advocates > regularly point to traffic shaping as a concern since they fear that > Rogers could limit bandwidth to competing content or services. In > response to the packet shaping approach, many file sharing applications > now employ encryption to make it difficult to detect the contents of > data packets. This has led to a technical "cat and mouse" game, with > ROGERS NOW ONE OF THE ONLY ISPs IN THE WORLD TO SIMPLY DEGRADE ENCRYPTED > TRAFFIC." - Michael Geist [emphasis mine] > http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/1859/ > > "Rogers Has Resumed Throttling P2P with a VENGEANCE" posted by the Forum > Moderator on February 10, 2007, at RBUA: > http://www.rbua.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5677 > > > There was some mention of one in the paper a couple of weeks ago > > and Rogers said it didn't happen > > Business as usual for both Rogers and Sympatico. Denial by default. > My experience with residential Sympatico DSL was that there was no traffic shaping or other practice that I would consider unethical. Despite have a sync rate of 1728/384 due to terrible phone lines in my area, I could download torrents faster than on my 6 megabit rogers connection. Blocking outbound port 25 doesn't qualify as unethical in my world. They didn't even block inbound port 25 (and rightly so). >From what I gather, Bell and Rogers purchase bandwidth in different ways. Best that I can tell is that Bell has peering agreements with other networks, so bandwidth is essentially free to them, so long as the bandwidth exists. Rogers has to actually pay for bandwidth to other networks, so they have a far greater financial incentive to minimize the amount of traffic entering and leaving their network. I may be completely wrong, but I suspect that this is the case, and that this is why Bell will never be as draconian as Rogers. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 23:50:07 2007 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 19:50:07 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <465573E4.4010202@rogers.com> <465578D3.80903@primus.ca> <46557AD3.6020104@rogers.com> <465C9A36.3060106@primus.ca> Message-ID: <20070529235007.GE20407@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Tue, May 29, 2007 at 05:57:36PM -0400, Michael MacLeod wrote: > On 5/29/07, George Nicol wrote: > > My experience with residential Sympatico DSL was that there was no traffic > shaping or other practice that I would consider unethical. Despite have a > sync rate of 1728/384 due to terrible phone lines in my area, I could > download torrents faster than on my 6 megabit rogers connection. > > Blocking outbound port 25 doesn't qualify as unethical in my world. They > didn't even block inbound port 25 (and rightly so). I switched from Sympatico to DSL.CA 6 or 7 years ago exactly because Sympatico *did* start blocking incoming port 25 (they had been blocking outgoing port 25 traffic for a few years before that). Moreover, when I called their support line to ask if that had happened, they said "no". After a week of trying lots of other things, I called their support again and this time they admitted that they had. When I switched, the person I talked to at DSL.CA told me that thay had had a lot of people switching to them for the same reason. So, either Sympatico decided they'd made a mistake and stopped blocking incoming port 25, or the blocking is implemented differently in different neighbourhoods. (I wouldn't go back in any case. They don't get to lie to me again.) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 22:21:09 2007 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 18:21:09 -0400 Subject: getting data out: mysql -> csv In-Reply-To: <465C8CF9.9010505-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <465C8CF9.9010505@xtrinsic.com> Message-ID: <20070529222109.GA13849@wp.magstar.net> On Tue, May 29, 2007 at 04:28:41PM -0400, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > Good afternoon, > > I'm in the process of trying to yank content out of one CMS and into > another CMS. The import function on the new CMS requires that the data > be in a CSV. This should be 'easy'... except the data contains new lines > and tabs (apparently) because each time I try to export the data, it > doesn't play nicely as a CSV. > > I've tried googling "mysql export csv" and found the following: > http://forums.mysql.com/read.php?79,11324,13062#msg-13062 > I don't have the select into outfile flag > and > http://tlug.dnho.net/?q=node/209 > The explanation of the sed cleanup is wrong, I know. > > In the first option there is a follow-up question which is exactly the > same as mine... "what if there are characters in the data which are the > same characters that are to be used as delimiters?" I've asked the techs > to enable the "select into outfile" option for me.. but in the mean > time, my question remains: how do you get HTML fragments (especially > when there are new lines, tabs and quotes as part of the data) out of a > MySQL table and into a CSV? Whole purpose of CSV is to handle data with delimiter characters. So... is this the problem of exporting malformed CSV, or the problem of buggy importing routine? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 22:33:56 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 18:33:56 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705291440w5363014crecbdb227c382f3eb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070523211003.7f3c4970@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1e55af990705240019s3ef66962l1939585a22092c53@mail.gmail.com> <20070524142741.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241026s33b63768g8904baf4b5a13447@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070525215943.6ecf917b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705291440w5363014crecbdb227c382f3eb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070529183356.3da7b759@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Scott Elcomb left a post-it on the fridge: > On 5/25/07, JoeHill wrote: > > Christopher Browne left a post-it on the fridge: > > > > > On 5/25/07, John Van Ostrand wrote: > > > > On Fri, 2007-05-25 at 09:56 -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > > > > I may be sorry to mention this, but an excellent example of this > > > > > mistake (IMO) was the reaction of some on the community to the > > > > > Microsoft Vista launch. Stand on the corner across the street, > > > > > demonstrate, inflate a big penguin, and hand out CDs. It certainly > > > > > made the participants feel good (look how many brochures we burned > > > > > through!) and was great for peer recognition (participants later > > > > > judged the event a success because photos of it found their way onto > > > > > social websites). But the net real effect of that event, to get more > > > > > open source use in Toronto, was near zero. Make no mistake, this > > > > > event was done for the benefit of the people doing it, not the target > > > > > audience -- it served a purpose, to be sure, but not the one stated. > > > > > > > > It's unfair to say that the Vista launch demonstration was ineffective > > > > because it had little effect. Virtually all individual ads have little > > > > effect. It's the sum of many ads that make the difference. The more > > > > people that see the inflated penguin pop-up, the more they will think of > > > > it when they see Linux. It's reinforcement. > > > > > > No, I think Evan is right about this. > > > > No, I think Evan has a pathological fixation, cannot let go of something > > that happened 4 months ago, and is in need of serious help, (much unlike > > me) ;) > > FWIW, I think Evan has made some valid observations. Perhaps not > "correct" to your point of view, but valid at least. I for one value > Evan's input, along with all the others' - such as your own. Apparently the 'wink' I left at the end of what I wrote did not come out on your end. Please check your locale settings, perhaps it is not displayed properly in UTF-8 or something ;) (see that one?) Anyhow, of course you are correct, I don't deny that Evan has some relevant issues to raise, I was speaking more to the seeming obsession with going after the penguinistas of this past winter in Dundas Square. Funny thread that... > What I would really like to see (and, as I'd hoped to point out in > another branch of this conversation) is for the various, outspoken, > components (alternatively, proponents) of our community working > together to find an effective way to advertise our interests and > concerns to the general public. Ditto! -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "I'm a fraud - a poor, lazy, sexy fraud." -Bender -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 22:47:30 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 18:47:30 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <20070529183356.3da7b759-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070524142741.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241026s33b63768g8904baf4b5a13447@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070525215943.6ecf917b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705291440w5363014crecbdb227c382f3eb@mail.gmail.com> <20070529183356.3da7b759@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0705291547h7e055f54yb2ee1ec3ce413ff2@mail.gmail.com> On 5/29/07, JoeHill wrote: > Apparently the 'wink' I left at the end of what I wrote did not come out on > your end. Please check your locale settings, perhaps it is not displayed > properly in UTF-8 or something ;) (see that one?) See, now I wish I could blame something on Google. Rrrrgh. Yes, I see that one! > Anyhow, of course you are correct, I don't deny that Evan has some relevant > issues to raise, I was speaking more to the seeming obsession with going after > the penguinistas of this past winter in Dundas Square. Funny thread that... Uggh. Only 3700+ emails to dig through to discover what thou speakest of! Heh. :-) -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 23:33:51 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 19:33:51 -0400 Subject: Homegrown Linux/FOSS Adverts Message-ID: <99a6c38f0705291633p26a385abvbe6f621c05095a40@mail.gmail.com> Ok, so this was the TV, Internet & Democracy thread. WTH. I'd just like to know if anyone here thinks we _can_ make a difference. Now, before anyone responds directly to that statement, I'd like to clarify a moment. #1 - I know a bunch of folks on this list (and others besides) that _would like to_ make a difference [in the way Linux/FOSS is "understood" by the General Public]. All, fortunately, with differing skill-bases. #2 - I know there's virtually no money to work with. Any financial support would have to come from GTALUG sponsors and/or fundraising. #3a - I'm looking, for the moment, as to _why_ (eg. reasons *you* might support an advertising campaign) #3b - and _how_ (eg. what media and/or strategies might *you* employ) to make it possible. Perhaps these questions are rhetorical. Then again, I also suppose that would depend on the feedback received. -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 00:03:37 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 20:03:37 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <20070529183356.3da7b759-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070523211003.7f3c4970@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1e55af990705240019s3ef66962l1939585a22092c53@mail.gmail.com> <20070524142741.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241026s33b63768g8904baf4b5a13447@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070525215943.6ecf917b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705291440w5363014crecbdb227c382f3eb@mail.gmail.com> <20070529183356.3da7b759@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <465CBF59.3050204@telly.org> JoeHill wrote: >> What I would really like to see (and, as I'd hoped to point out in another branch of this conversation) is for the various, outspoken, >> components (alternatively, proponents) of our community working together to find an effective way to advertise our interests and concerns to the general public. >> > > Ditto! > On that we appear to be in violent agreement. I'd go a step further and suggest that the necessary advocacy work is not the exclusive domain of the outspoken -- or even extroverted -- advocates. IMO more work needs to be done on low-profile work that's less popular because it's less personally rewarding, but anyone can do it. For example: there's some important research to be done in finding out who the right people are in governments (city, regional and Queen's Park) considered experts (or decision makers) regarding issues of public IT policy, and especially in education where a number of jurisdictions around the world are introducing FOSS. Not just elected officials, but also senior bureaucrats. And then we need to talk to them. A few months ago, CLUE's Russell McOrmond sent an information package to each MP educating them on open source, and related policy regarding IT procurement, "piracy", software patents etc. It would be great to be able to attempt this at a more local level, but it needs energy and bodies. This is the kind of work that doesn't get someone mentioned on Digg or Slashdot, but quietly goes a long way towards elevating FOSS from novelty to mainstream to preference. Part of my points deal with the fact that FOSS is out of the novelty/curiosity phase, which require a change in tactics compared to a decade ago. While the average person on the street may not know what Linux is, they likely won't know a lot of other important things about the workings of computers. People who make it their business to know and make decisions) about IT are at least aware of Linux, even if that awareness is negative or just enough to be the source of FUD. That's why I said that the message -- and the target audience -- is now more about the answer to "why FOSS" rather than "what is FOSS". Yes, Microsoft does publicity stunts. But it probably spends far more on behind-the-scenes lobbyists and PR than on special-event stunts, which is the part of the balance which we don't do. Folks in the community such as Colin, Marcel and myself have a great awareness of the value of PR; but we don't have the cycles to do it ourselves. Spending all one's advocacy resouces on stunts is very visible (thus what I referred to as a "feel-good" effect) tactic, but without less-visible gruntwork (and followup!) its net effects are dubious. I'm _not_ saying that stunts are bad, just that they're spectacularly ineffective and inefficient _if_ that tactic is the only dimension to our advocacy. There's plenty of work to do, it just needs people with the energy and cycles to keep it going. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 00:11:22 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 20:11:22 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <465CBF59.3050204-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070523211003.7f3c4970@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1e55af990705240019s3ef66962l1939585a22092c53@mail.gmail.com> <20070524142741.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241026s33b63768g8904baf4b5a13447@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070525215943.6ecf917b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705291440w5363014crecbdb227c382f3eb@mail.gmail.com> <20070529183356.3da7b759@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <465CBF59.3050204@telly.org> Message-ID: <465CC12A.2040303@utoronto.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > JoeHill wrote: >>> What I would really like to see (and, as I'd hoped to point out in another branch of this conversation) is for the various, outspoken, >>> components (alternatively, proponents) of our community working together to find an effective way to advertise our interests and concerns to the general public. >>> >> Ditto! >> > On that we appear to be in violent agreement. I'd go a step further and > suggest that the necessary advocacy work is not the exclusive domain of > the outspoken -- or even extroverted -- advocates. IMO more work needs > to be done on low-profile work that's less popular because it's less > personally rewarding, but anyone can do it. > > For example: there's some important research to be done in finding out > who the right people are in governments (city, regional and Queen's > Park) considered experts (or decision makers) regarding issues of public > IT policy, and especially in education where a number of jurisdictions > around the world are introducing FOSS. Not just elected officials, but > also senior bureaucrats. And then we need to talk to them. > > A few months ago, CLUE's Russell McOrmond sent an information package to > each MP educating them on open source, and related policy regarding IT > procurement, "piracy", software patents etc. It would be great to be > able to attempt this at a more local level, but it needs energy and > bodies. This is the kind of work that doesn't get someone mentioned on > Digg or Slashdot, but quietly goes a long way towards elevating FOSS > from novelty to mainstream to preference. > > Part of my points deal with the fact that FOSS is out of the > novelty/curiosity phase, which require a change in tactics compared to a > decade ago. While the average person on the street may not know what > Linux is, they likely won't know a lot of other important things about > the workings of computers. People who make it their business to know and > make decisions) about IT are at least aware of Linux, even if that > awareness is negative or just enough to be the source of FUD. That's why > I said that the message -- and the target audience -- is now more about > the answer to "why FOSS" rather than "what is FOSS". > > Yes, Microsoft does publicity stunts. But it probably spends far more on > behind-the-scenes lobbyists and PR than on special-event stunts, which > is the part of the balance which we don't do. Folks in the community > such as Colin, Marcel and myself have a great awareness of the value of > PR; but we don't have the cycles to do it ourselves. Spending all one's > advocacy resouces on stunts is very visible (thus what I referred to as > a "feel-good" effect) tactic, but without less-visible gruntwork (and > followup!) its net effects are dubious. > > I'm _not_ saying that stunts are bad, just that they're spectacularly > ineffective and inefficient _if_ that tactic is the only dimension to > our advocacy. There's plenty of work to do, it just needs people with > the energy and cycles to keep it going. So what are we doing for linuxinthepark 2007 this year then? Geek love-in or public outdoor tech advocacy love-in. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 23:11:22 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 19:11:22 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705291547h7e055f54yb2ee1ec3ce413ff2-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070524142741.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241026s33b63768g8904baf4b5a13447@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070525215943.6ecf917b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705291440w5363014crecbdb227c382f3eb@mail.gmail.com> <20070529183356.3da7b759@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705291547h7e055f54yb2ee1ec3ce413ff2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070529191122.3b022edb@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Scott Elcomb left a post-it on the fridge: > On 5/29/07, JoeHill wrote: > > Apparently the 'wink' I left at the end of what I wrote did not come out on > > your end. Please check your locale settings, perhaps it is not displayed > > properly in UTF-8 or something ;) (see that one?) > > See, now I wish I could blame something on Google. Rrrrgh. Yes, I > see that one! Everything is Google and Microsoft's fault! And Novell too! > > Anyhow, of course you are correct, I don't deny that Evan has some relevant > > issues to raise, I was speaking more to the seeming obsession with going > > after the penguinistas of this past winter in Dundas Square. Funny thread > > that... > > Uggh. Only 3700+ emails to dig through to discover what thou speakest > of! Heh. :-) Eep! I assumed (yeah, yeah, I know) you had seen the thread. Good Lord, just looked at my TLUG folder...over 13000 messages...and another 16k in archive. Someday, when CSIS detains me and confiscates my computers, y'all are in for some interrogation (especially the Ubuntu fanboyz). Search for subject 'ubuntu fanboy' and 'ice house'. It really was quite an interesting thread, though, like all threads, it got a bit 'frayed' at the end ;) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "Hey, sexy mama. Wanna kill all the humans?" -Bender -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 00:41:26 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 20:41:26 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <465CBF59.3050204-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070523211003.7f3c4970@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1e55af990705240019s3ef66962l1939585a22092c53@mail.gmail.com> <20070524142741.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241026s33b63768g8904baf4b5a13447@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070525215943.6ecf917b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705291440w5363014crecbdb227c382f3eb@mail.gmail.com> <20070529183356.3da7b759@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <465CBF59.3050204@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070529204126.2987d475@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Evan Leibovitch left a post-it on the fridge: > JoeHill wrote: > >> What I would really like to see (and, as I'd hoped to point out in another > >> branch of this conversation) is for the various, outspoken, components > >> (alternatively, proponents) of our community working together to find an > >> effective way to advertise our interests and concerns to the general > >> public. > > > > Ditto! > > I think your attribution is a bit off, I only said 'ditto' ;) > On that we appear to be in violent agreement. I'd go a step further and > suggest that the necessary advocacy work is not the exclusive domain of > the outspoken -- or even extroverted -- advocates. IMO more work needs > to be done on low-profile work that's less popular because it's less > personally rewarding, but anyone can do it. > > For example: there's some important research to be done in finding out > who the right people are in governments (city, regional and Queen's > Park) considered experts (or decision makers) regarding issues of public > IT policy, and especially in education where a number of jurisdictions > around the world are introducing FOSS. Not just elected officials, but > also senior bureaucrats. And then we need to talk to them. Agreed, though we might disagree over the value of senior bureaucrats, beyond being a good source of protein ;) > A few months ago, CLUE's Russell McOrmond sent an information package to > each MP educating them on open source, and related policy regarding IT > procurement, "piracy", software patents etc. It would be great to be > able to attempt this at a more local level, but it needs energy and > bodies. This is the kind of work that doesn't get someone mentioned on > Digg or Slashdot, but quietly goes a long way towards elevating FOSS > from novelty to mainstream to preference. > > Part of my points deal with the fact that FOSS is out of the > novelty/curiosity phase, which require a change in tactics compared to a > decade ago. Ten years ago, the people at the Ice House would have been instantly arrested and portrayed in the media as some kind of whacked out doomsday cult. > While the average person on the street may not know what Linux is, they > likely won't know a lot of other important things about the workings of > computers. People who make it their business to know and make decisions) > about IT are at least aware of Linux, even if that awareness is negative or > just enough to be the source of FUD. That's why I said that the message -- > and the target audience -- is now more about the answer to "why FOSS" rather > than "what is FOSS". I dunno, keep in mind the crowd you hang out with. A *lot* of the people I meet on a daily basis really haven't the faintest clue 'what' the hell I'm talking about when I start babbling about 'why'. Clearly some of that can be ameliorated by getting FOSS where it should be, in the classrooms and curriculum of our schools and such, and that requires the involvement of 'senior bureaucrats'; but in the end we need to speak to everybody, hell even the bums on the street (maybe *especially* the bums in the street, eh?) > Yes, Microsoft does publicity stunts. But it probably spends far more on > behind-the-scenes lobbyists and PR than on special-event stunts, which > is the part of the balance which we don't do. Folks in the community > such as Colin, Marcel and myself have a great awareness of the value of > PR; but we don't have the cycles to do it ourselves. Spending all one's > advocacy resouces on stunts is very visible (thus what I referred to as > a "feel-good" effect) tactic, but without less-visible gruntwork (and > followup!) its net effects are dubious. That's the thing, though, right? Guaranteed is someone is committed enough to stand outside in the cold distributing CD's next to a giant inflated penguin, there's a very good chance that they are going to have the same level of commitment to more grassroots activities such as the ones you allude to. I think that perhaps I got the impression in the earlier discussion that it was an either/or thing, or that the giant penguin people were just completely wrong. > I'm _not_ saying that stunts are bad, just that they're spectacularly > ineffective and inefficient _if_ that tactic is the only dimension to > our advocacy. There's plenty of work to do, it just needs people with > the energy and cycles to keep it going. I can't disagree with that. Well, I could, but I gotta go inflate the giant Stallman in my back yard. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: Fry, of all the friends I've had, you're the first. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 00:44:37 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 20:44:37 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <465CC12A.2040303-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070525215943.6ecf917b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705291440w5363014crecbdb227c382f3eb@mail.gmail.com> <20070529183356.3da7b759@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <465CBF59.3050204@telly.org> <465CC12A.2040303@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0705291744j22a79dfck38cc949713ba4af0@mail.gmail.com> On 5/29/07, Jamon Camisso wrote: > > Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > I'm _not_ saying that stunts are bad, just that they're spectacularly > > ineffective and inefficient _if_ that tactic is the only dimension to > > our advocacy. There's plenty of work to do, it just needs people with > > the energy and cycles to keep it going. > > So what are we doing for linuxinthepark 2007 this year then? Geek > love-in or public outdoor tech advocacy love-in. Well, I'd hope a "public outdoor tech advocacy love-in." I'd think that what Evan is suggesting is something outside of the "Geek love-in" events. =) -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 00:46:08 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 20:46:08 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <465CC12A.2040303-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070523211003.7f3c4970@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1e55af990705240019s3ef66962l1939585a22092c53@mail.gmail.com> <20070524142741.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241026s33b63768g8904baf4b5a13447@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070525215943.6ecf917b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705291440w5363014crecbdb227c382f3eb@mail.gmail.com> <20070529183356.3da7b759@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <465CBF59.3050204@telly.org> <465CC12A.2040303@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070529204608.39e5dfbc@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Jamon Camisso left a post-it on the fridge: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > For example: there's some important research to be done in finding out > > who the right people are in governments (city, regional and Queen's > > Park) considered experts (or decision makers) regarding issues of public > > IT policy, and especially in education where a number of jurisdictions > > around the world are introducing FOSS. Not just elected officials, but > > also senior bureaucrats. And then we need to talk to them. > > > > A few months ago, CLUE's Russell McOrmond sent an information package to > > each MP educating them on open source, and related policy regarding IT > > procurement, "piracy", software patents etc. It would be great to be > > able to attempt this at a more local level, but it needs energy and > > bodies. This is the kind of work that doesn't get someone mentioned on > > Digg or Slashdot, but quietly goes a long way towards elevating FOSS > > from novelty to mainstream to preference. > > > > I'm _not_ saying that stunts are bad, just that they're spectacularly > > ineffective and inefficient _if_ that tactic is the only dimension to > > our advocacy. There's plenty of work to do, it just needs people with > > the energy and cycles to keep it going. > > So what are we doing for linuxinthepark 2007 this year then? Geek > love-in or public outdoor tech advocacy love-in. Was just picturing 'senior bureacrats' and 'love-in'. I feel psychicly violated. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "I'm gonna go build my own theme park... with blackjack and hookers! In fact, forget the park!" -Bender -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 00:59:59 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 20:59:59 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <20070529204126.2987d475-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070525215943.6ecf917b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705291440w5363014crecbdb227c382f3eb@mail.gmail.com> <20070529183356.3da7b759@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <465CBF59.3050204@telly.org> <20070529204126.2987d475@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0705291759i79fdbd1ekd45d07c182b6d662@mail.gmail.com> On 5/29/07, JoeHill wrote: > Evan Leibovitch left a post-it on the fridge: > > > JoeHill wrote: > > >> What I would really like to see (and, as I'd hoped to point out in another > > >> branch of this conversation) is for the various, outspoken, components > > >> (alternatively, proponents) of our community working together to find an > > >> effective way to advertise our interests and concerns to the general > > >> public. > > > > > > Ditto! > > > > > I think your attribution is a bit off, I only said 'ditto' ;) > > > On that we appear to be in violent agreement. I'd go a step further and > > suggest that the necessary advocacy work is not the exclusive domain of > > the outspoken -- or even extroverted -- advocates. IMO more work needs > > to be done on low-profile work that's less popular because it's less > > personally rewarding, but anyone can do it. > > > > For example: there's some important research to be done in finding out > > who the right people are in governments (city, regional and Queen's > > Park) considered experts (or decision makers) regarding issues of public > > IT policy, and especially in education where a number of jurisdictions > > around the world are introducing FOSS. Not just elected officials, but > > also senior bureaucrats. And then we need to talk to them. > > Agreed, though we might disagree over the value of senior bureaucrats, beyond > being a good source of protein ;) Being a good source of protein is important. Biological entities - such as mammals - require a regual intake and processing of proteins... non? > > A few months ago, CLUE's Russell McOrmond sent an information package to > > each MP educating them on open source, and related policy regarding IT > > procurement, "piracy", software patents etc. It would be great to be > > able to attempt this at a more local level, but it needs energy and > > bodies. This is the kind of work that doesn't get someone mentioned on > > Digg or Slashdot, but quietly goes a long way towards elevating FOSS > > from novelty to mainstream to preference. > > > > Part of my points deal with the fact that FOSS is out of the > > novelty/curiosity phase, which require a change in tactics compared to a > > decade ago. > > Ten years ago, the people at the Ice House would have been instantly arrested > and portrayed in the media as some kind of whacked out doomsday cult. Not trying to give you a hard time here, but it, currently, is not 10 years ago. Given that, now imagine if it was 100 years ago. One hundred years ago... what is that? Three generations? Just how far have we truly come in that time? And even more curious (for me at least - that is to say observationally; I have no desire for any association with any "Cult"), how has the definition of "cult" changed - even over the last two decades? (Doomsday aside!) I know what the Ice House is (I'm fairly certain), but even still, your words strike home. > > While the average person on the street may not know what Linux is, they > > likely won't know a lot of other important things about the workings of > > computers. People who make it their business to know and make decisions) > > about IT are at least aware of Linux, even if that awareness is negative or > > just enough to be the source of FUD. That's why I said that the message -- > > and the target audience -- is now more about the answer to "why FOSS" rather > > than "what is FOSS". > > I dunno, keep in mind the crowd you hang out with. A *lot* of the people I meet > on a daily basis really haven't the faintest clue 'what' the hell I'm talking > about when I start babbling about 'why'. Clearly some of that can be > ameliorated by getting FOSS where it should be, in the classrooms and > curriculum of our schools and such, and that requires the involvement of > 'senior bureaucrats'; but in the end we need to speak to everybody, hell even > the bums on the street (maybe *especially* the bums in the street, eh?) Everyone is key, but first we must communicate with Key people. (Note the capitalization.) > > Yes, Microsoft does publicity stunts. But it probably spends far more on > > behind-the-scenes lobbyists and PR than on special-event stunts, which > > is the part of the balance which we don't do. Folks in the community > > such as Colin, Marcel and myself have a great awareness of the value of > > PR; but we don't have the cycles to do it ourselves. Spending all one's > > advocacy resouces on stunts is very visible (thus what I referred to as > > a "feel-good" effect) tactic, but without less-visible gruntwork (and > > followup!) its net effects are dubious. > > That's the thing, though, right? Guaranteed is someone is committed enough to > stand outside in the cold distributing CD's next to a giant inflated penguin, > there's a very good chance that they are going to have the same level of > commitment to more grassroots activities such as the ones you allude to. > > I think that perhaps I got the impression in the earlier discussion that it > was an either/or thing, or that the giant penguin people were just completely > wrong. Not I. From my perspective, I'd think both the Penguin People and the Penguin Politicians are necessary for us to have any chance of success. > > I'm _not_ saying that stunts are bad, just that they're spectacularly > > ineffective and inefficient _if_ that tactic is the only dimension to > > our advocacy. There's plenty of work to do, it just needs people with > > the energy and cycles to keep it going. > > I can't disagree with that. Well, I could, but I gotta go inflate the giant > Stallman in my back yard. Oh yeah? Well just lemme go get my ESR! Heheheh. =D -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 01:36:56 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 21:36:56 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705291759i79fdbd1ekd45d07c182b6d662-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070525215943.6ecf917b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705291440w5363014crecbdb227c382f3eb@mail.gmail.com> <20070529183356.3da7b759@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <465CBF59.3050204@telly.org> <20070529204126.2987d475@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705291759i79fdbd1ekd45d07c182b6d662@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <465CD538.4080405@telly.org> Scott Elcomb wrote: >> I can't disagree with that. Well, I could, but I gotta go inflate the >> giant >> Stallman in my back yard. > > Oh yeah? Well just lemme go get my ESR! Heheheh. =D It won't inflate, too many bullet holes... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 01:45:15 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 21:45:15 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <20070529204126.2987d475-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070523211003.7f3c4970@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1e55af990705240019s3ef66962l1939585a22092c53@mail.gmail.com> <20070524142741.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241026s33b63768g8904baf4b5a13447@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070525215943.6ecf917b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705291440w5363014crecbdb227c382f3eb@mail.gmail.com> <20070529183356.3da7b759@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <465CBF59.3050204@telly.org> <20070529204126.2987d475@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <465CD72B.5080100@telly.org> JoeHill wrote: > Ten years ago, the people at the Ice House would have been instantly arrested > and portrayed in the media as some kind of whacked out doomsday cult. > FWIW: Ten years ago, a bunch of Toronto-area Linux advocates designed and bought a bunch of hockey shirts emblazened with Tux and the words "Team Linux" on the front, and wore them while giving Red Hat and Caldera CDs out to literally thousands of people at an IT event. They even paid a little more than the cost of each shirt, so we could make an extra one with the number 1 and "TORVALDS" on the back, which was shipped off to Linus after the event. (He eventually wore it during his first speech in Toronto some years later, though he suggested that he might be the only Finn who hated hockey.) > I dunno, keep in mind the crowd you hang out with. A *lot* of the people I meet > on a daily basis really haven't the faintest clue 'what' the hell I'm talking > about when I start babbling about 'why'. How many have the authority (and desire) to purchase more than one PC per year? > That's the thing, though, right? Guaranteed is someone is committed enough to > stand outside in the cold distributing CD's next to a giant inflated penguin, > there's a very good chance that they are going to have the same level of > commitment to more grassroots activities such as the ones you allude to. > One can hope. The history in this regard has not indicated this willingness for gruntwork. People want the instant gratification element which doesn't exist for the back-room activities. > I think that perhaps I got the impression in the earlier discussion that it > was an either/or thing, or that the giant penguin people were just completely > wrong. > It's never either/or. All is good. But, given the relative scarcity of people willing to do grassroots advocacy, it is fair game to suggest that certain activites are more efficient than others at increasing use of FOSS -- and that the person-hours spent on the stunt could have been more _effectively_ deployed in less flamboyant activities. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 02:10:13 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 22:10:13 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <465CC12A.2040303-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070525215943.6ecf917b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705291440w5363014crecbdb227c382f3eb@mail.gmail.com> <20070529183356.3da7b759@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <465CBF59.3050204@telly.org> <465CC12A.2040303@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On 5/29/07, Jamon Camisso wrote: > So what are we doing for linuxinthepark 2007 this year then? Geek > love-in or public outdoor tech advocacy love-in. I understand David Patrick is keen on organizing it himself, and it seems to me that that is the best possible idea for quite a number of reasons, particularly when contrasting with (say) last year... - David has the *PERFECT* location to arrange logistics, across the street from a suitable park Nobody else (save Seneca) has that particular advantage. And his having a restaurant makes him win that round :-). - If he's keen on it, that's a further Good Thing. - Contrast, a bit, last year; the loose bits of infrastructure *mostly* grew around Linuxcaffe contributions; the number of other volunteers who provided anything were pretty thin. (Kudos to the bringers of drinks and samosas; their names may not living forever in our memory, but the thanks live on!) Numerous other would-be organizers were away at critical times, preventing better planning. If this all falls as "David's responsibility," I'm quite confident that the BBQ (and perhaps samosa orders!) won't just fall thru the cracks. (I'm hungry, at the moment, from whence the samosa fixation. It nonetheless was a stunningly good idea that any organizer should consider :-). Being tasty yet economical is a Huge Win.) I don't know that the Board has had any opinion at all on the matter; my opinion is that if David's keen on running it, that's an excellent idea, and people should presumably coordinate their samosa orders with him :-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 02:24:58 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 22:24:58 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <465CD72B.5080100-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <20070523211003.7f3c4970@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1e55af990705240019s3ef66962l1939585a22092c53@mail.gmail.com> <20070524142741.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241026s33b63768g8904baf4b5a13447@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705241103t3b87ef2dr981b4f738a7bc91a@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070525215943.6ecf917b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705291440w5363014crecbdb227c382f3eb@mail.gmail.com> <20070529183356.3da7b759@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <465CBF59.3050204@telly.org> <20070529204126.2987d475@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <465CD72B.5080100@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070529222458.71624859@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Evan Leibovitch left a post-it on the fridge: > JoeHill wrote: > > Ten years ago, the people at the Ice House would have been instantly > > arrested and portrayed in the media as some kind of whacked out doomsday > > cult. > > FWIW: Ten years ago, a bunch of Toronto-area Linux advocates designed > and bought a bunch of hockey shirts emblazened with Tux and the words > "Team Linux" on the front, and wore them while giving Red Hat and > Caldera CDs out to literally thousands of people at an IT event. They > even paid a little more than the cost of each shirt, so we could make an > extra one with the number 1 and "TORVALDS" on the back, which was > shipped off to Linus after the event. (He eventually wore it during his > first speech in Toronto some years later, though he suggested that he > might be the only Finn who hated hockey.) And I must be the only Canadian, at least it feels that way sometimes. > > I dunno, keep in mind the crowd you hang out with. A *lot* of the people I > > meet on a daily basis really haven't the faintest clue 'what' the hell I'm > > talking about when I start babbling about 'why'. > How many have the authority (and desire) to purchase more than one PC > per year? Enough that if I extrapolate, following a guess at how many people each of us knows, and how many people *they* know, I figure they outnumber the pen pushers a million to one. Remember who yer talkin' to here...power to the people...all that? > > That's the thing, though, right? Guaranteed is someone is committed enough > > to stand outside in the cold distributing CD's next to a giant inflated > > penguin, there's a very good chance that they are going to have the same > > level of commitment to more grassroots activities such as the ones you > > allude to. > One can hope. The history in this regard has not indicated this > willingness for gruntwork. People want the instant gratification element > which doesn't exist for the back-room activities. I know the people you're talking about, believe me, I once worked for Greenpeace. However, I don't think you can necessarily make a definite connection between 'demonstrators' and those interested in only instant gratification. Notice I said 'necessarily' ;) > > I think that perhaps I got the impression in the earlier discussion that it > > was an either/or thing, or that the giant penguin people were just > > completely wrong. > > > It's never either/or. All is good. But, given the relative scarcity of > people willing to do grassroots advocacy, it is fair game to suggest > that certain activites are more efficient than others at increasing use > of FOSS -- and that the person-hours spent on the stunt could have been > more _effectively_ deployed in less flamboyant activities. Efficient?? I know you're right, logically, but then I think of Jonathon Swift and the thing about eating children... /runs for cover -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Leela: Bender, maybe you can interface with the Femputer and reprogram it to let them go. Bender: Maybe you can interface with my ass... by biting it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 02:35:06 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 22:35:06 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <465C9A36.3060106-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <465573E4.4010202@rogers.com> <465578D3.80903@primus.ca> <46557AD3.6020104@rogers.com> <465C9A36.3060106@primus.ca> Message-ID: <20070529223506.10075e87@node1.freeyourmachine.org> George Nicol left a post-it on the fridge: > James Knott wrote: > > > Now you again say "block". What is blocked, other than port 25? > > Today, Port 25. Tomorrow... whatever they choose. Their record speaks > for itself. What speaks loudest is the Rogers TOS. Read it and weep. > > > What throttle are you referring to? > > "For the past 18 months, it has been an open secret that Rogers engages > in packet shaping ... for certain services such as peer-to-peer file > sharing applications. ROGERS DENIED THE PRACTICE AT FIRST, but > effectively acknowledged it in late 2005. Net neutrality advocates > regularly point to traffic shaping as a concern since they fear that > Rogers could limit bandwidth to competing content or services. In > response to the packet shaping approach, many file sharing applications > now employ encryption to make it difficult to detect the contents of > data packets. This has led to a technical "cat and mouse" game, with > ROGERS NOW ONE OF THE ONLY ISPs IN THE WORLD TO SIMPLY DEGRADE ENCRYPTED > TRAFFIC." I knew it!! A few months back, Sympatico began throttling bittorrent. So, I enabled RC4 encryption, problem solved. Then a month ago, even with encryption, I could not run bittorrent without the whole connection coming to a dead halt. At the same time, my wife's VPN connection to her office became totally unuseable. I began to think that, if I were Sympatico and I was hunting this stuff down, I would just blacklist all encrypted traffic, which would also affect the VPN. Now I'm with Teksavvy, and I'm happy. I wish I was closer to the CO, or that my neighbourhood had fiber right to the door, but I'm happy. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Leela: Bender, maybe you can interface with the Femputer and reprogram it to let them go. Bender: Maybe you can interface with my ass... by biting it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 02:37:36 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 22:37:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Homegrown Linux/FOSS Adverts In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705291633p26a385abvbe6f621c05095a40-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705291633p26a385abvbe6f621c05095a40@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <103796.17468.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Scott Elcomb wrote: > Ok, so this was the TV, Internet & Democracy thread. > WTH. I'd just > like to know if anyone here thinks we _can_ make a > difference. > > Now, before anyone responds directly to that > statement, I'd like to > clarify a moment. > > #1 - I know a bunch of folks on this list (and > others besides) that > _would like to_ make a difference [in the way > Linux/FOSS is > "understood" by the General Public]. All, > fortunately, with differing > skill-bases. I am making a (extreamely?) small difference with my writing, something that I plan to contine with (as it makes some modest $ for me :-) ). > #2 - I know there's virtually no money to work with. > Any financial > support would have to come from GTALUG sponsors > and/or fundraising. > > #3a - I'm looking, for the moment, as to _why_ (eg. > reasons *you* > might support an advertising campaign) If it is fun AND cheap I might be game. > #3b - and _how_ (eg. what media and/or strategies > might *you* employ) > to make it possible. I would go the gorilla marketing route. For example CITY-TV runs its "Speakers Corner", where for a small donation you might get your message on TV (this would call for someone who is a better/more polished public speaker than I am...). Something that could say be printed on an address label an plastered on telephone poles MIGHT be fun... > Perhaps these questions are rhetorical. Then again, > I also suppose > that would depend on the feedback received. > > -- > Scott Elcomb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 02:48:37 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 22:48:37 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <465573E4.4010202@rogers.com> <465578D3.80903@primus.ca> <46557AD3.6020104@rogers.com> <465C9A36.3060106@primus.ca> Message-ID: <20070529224837.30f18cc8@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Michael MacLeod left a post-it on the fridge: > On 5/29/07, George Nicol wrote: > > > > James Knott wrote: > > > > > Now you again say "block". What is blocked, other than port 25? > > > > Today, Port 25. Tomorrow... whatever they choose. Their record speaks > > for itself. What speaks loudest is the Rogers TOS. Read it and weep. > > > > > What throttle are you referring to? > > > > "For the past 18 months, it has been an open secret that Rogers engages > > in packet shaping ... for certain services such as peer-to-peer file > > sharing applications. ROGERS DENIED THE PRACTICE AT FIRST, but > > effectively acknowledged it in late 2005. Net neutrality advocates > > regularly point to traffic shaping as a concern since they fear that > > Rogers could limit bandwidth to competing content or services. In > > response to the packet shaping approach, many file sharing applications > > now employ encryption to make it difficult to detect the contents of > > data packets. This has led to a technical "cat and mouse" game, with > > ROGERS NOW ONE OF THE ONLY ISPs IN THE WORLD TO SIMPLY DEGRADE ENCRYPTED > > TRAFFIC." - Michael Geist [emphasis mine] > > http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/1859/ > > > > "Rogers Has Resumed Throttling P2P with a VENGEANCE" posted by the Forum > > Moderator on February 10, 2007, at RBUA: > > http://www.rbua.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5677 > > > > > There was some mention of one in the paper a couple of weeks ago > > > and Rogers said it didn't happen > > > > Business as usual for both Rogers and Sympatico. Denial by default. > > > > > My experience with residential Sympatico DSL was that there was no traffic > shaping or other practice that I would consider unethical. Despite have a > sync rate of 1728/384 due to terrible phone lines in my area, I could > download torrents faster than on my 6 megabit rogers connection. This sounds like past tense. In any case, I'm pretty sure they were trampling on my connection. I don't think they would unleash this traffic shaping over the whole network at once, so of course there are going to be exceptional experiences with this, no? > Blocking outbound port 25 doesn't qualify as unethical in my world. They > didn't even block inbound port 25 (and rightly so). I don't know if anyone said it was unethical, but you're right, it isn't if it's in the terms of service. To me, it's just like the fact that you cannot get a static IP from Bell if you want one. I think it was Lennart who once said something about Sympatico being okay for browsing the web and not much more. Sympatico is basically becoming just another AOL, offer the same vanilla crap to millions of people, make it nearly impossible to complain, and hope that somehow you keep enough customers to make the shareholders happy. > From what I gather, Bell and Rogers purchase bandwidth in different ways. > Best that I can tell is that Bell has peering agreements with other > networks, so bandwidth is essentially free to them, so long as the bandwidth > exists. Rogers has to actually pay for bandwidth to other networks, so they > have a far greater financial incentive to minimize the amount of traffic > entering and leaving their network. > > > I may be completely wrong, but I suspect that this is the case, and that > this is why Bell will never be as draconian as Rogers. Financial considerations aside, Bell has an infinite capacity to make really stupid decisions for completely arbitrary reasons. Trust me, I have it on very very good authority ;) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: Stay away from our women. You got metal fever, baby, metal fever! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 02:48:59 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 22:48:59 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705291759i79fdbd1ekd45d07c182b6d662-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070525215943.6ecf917b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705291440w5363014crecbdb227c382f3eb@mail.gmail.com> <20070529183356.3da7b759@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <465CBF59.3050204@telly.org> <20070529204126.2987d475@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705291759i79fdbd1ekd45d07c182b6d662@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/29/07, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 5/29/07, JoeHill wrote: > > Agreed, though we might disagree over the value of senior bureaucrats, beyond > > being a good source of protein ;) > > Being a good source of protein is important. Biological entities - > such as mammals - require a regual intake and processing of > proteins... non? I have to take exception; my father used to be a senior bureaucrat (in Ottawa, of course), and if you regard yourself as *so* different from them that they seem like a different species, I have to wonder who's the oddity. Come on - they're people too. The association with political process and with particular parties may introduce some level of distaste, but they do NOT have two heads. Reality is that they are people of importance, notably to the desire to see OSS software more widely deployed. Some may sit in Bill Gate's pocket, although that's unlikely, as they are people who, due to their political importance, find *many* people trying to curry favour with them. Microsoft is less of a "dominating force" in the economy than the railways used to be in the 1800's. Dismissing them is as good as giving up on having any influence on them. > > Ten years ago, the people at the Ice House would have been instantly arrested > > and portrayed in the media as some kind of whacked out doomsday cult. > > Not trying to give you a hard time here, but it, currently, is not 10 > years ago. Given that, now imagine if it was 100 years ago. > > One hundred years ago... what is that? Three generations? Just how > far have we truly come in that time? I have to call "nonsense" on this, in a big way. Way wackier things have been out there, and have been treated with some modicum of "internal respect." For instance, Saskatchewan's history includes *WAY* wackier stuff. Through about the first half of the 1900s, the Doukhobors (a rather extremist Russian Christian sect) had groups that periodically engaged in naked protests. Some would occasionally burn their own homes in protest of government action. Neither the government nor RCMP were particularly pleased by this, but your extreme view didn't happen. > Everyone is key, but first we must communicate with Key people. (Note > the capitalization.) I did my bit today; had a chat with some technical sales folk at IBM on how they might position pSeries + PostgreSQL against some alternatives :-). They may or may not win the sale; there were a few key spots where they simply failed to understand how to sell OSS, and I hope I helped with that. Pointedly, they were very worried about PostgreSQL service offerings, and thought it seemed risky when I suggested that the customer ought to have some "budding experts" in house. I told them: If you pick OSS, having some local expertise is part and parcel of it. You want a "total product" where you need NO expertise? That's why you should buy DB2, Oracle, and such. The customer already said they weren't interested in that, so they've already committed to drawing in some OSS expertise in house. > > > Yes, Microsoft does publicity stunts. But it probably spends far more on > > > behind-the-scenes lobbyists and PR than on special-event stunts, which > > > is the part of the balance which we don't do. Folks in the community > > > such as Colin, Marcel and myself have a great awareness of the value of > > > PR; but we don't have the cycles to do it ourselves. Spending all one's > > > advocacy resouces on stunts is very visible (thus what I referred to as > > > a "feel-good" effect) tactic, but without less-visible gruntwork (and > > > followup!) its net effects are dubious. > > > > That's the thing, though, right? Guaranteed is someone is committed enough to > > stand outside in the cold distributing CD's next to a giant inflated penguin, > > there's a very good chance that they are going to have the same level of > > commitment to more grassroots activities such as the ones you allude to. > > > > I think that perhaps I got the impression in the earlier discussion that it > > was an either/or thing, or that the giant penguin people were just completely > > wrong. > > Not I. From my perspective, I'd think both the Penguin People and the > Penguin Politicians are necessary for us to have any chance of > success. The overall model is one where the total effect is the sum of all of the components. My "wild guess" is that the multipler on "ice house"-like events is pretty low. In contrast, I'm not sure quite how to evaluate my conversation today; if it turns out I helped with that sale, it's probably on the order of a few million dollars that travelled around. The more curious question would be what happens next, where it conceivably influences further sales strategy. If it gets the sales guys thinking more creatively, I'm pretty happy :-). My (probability-adjusted :-)) share of the $millions seems likely to be more than the "ice house." My intent is not to boast (I have no idea of what the ultimate result will be; I may have merely flapped my gums for a while); the point is that some quiet words here and there can have greater opportunity to shift big things than they necessarily get credit for. Finding strategic people to talk to is of value. Most of the time, it will fail, but that doesn't mean the effort was necessarily wasted. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 03:49:55 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 23:49:55 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070525215943.6ecf917b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705291440w5363014crecbdb227c382f3eb@mail.gmail.com> <20070529183356.3da7b759@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <465CBF59.3050204@telly.org> <20070529204126.2987d475@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705291759i79fdbd1ekd45d07c182b6d662@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070529234955.73004bff@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Christopher Browne left a post-it on the fridge: > On 5/29/07, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > On 5/29/07, JoeHill wrote: > > > Agreed, though we might disagree over the value of senior bureaucrats, > > > beyond being a good source of protein ;) > > > > Being a good source of protein is important. Biological entities - > > such as mammals - require a regual intake and processing of > > proteins... non? > > I have to take exception; my father used to be a senior bureaucrat (in > Ottawa, of course), and if you regard yourself as *so* different from > them that they seem like a different species, I have to wonder who's > the oddity. > > Come on - they're people too. The association with political process > and with particular parties may introduce some level of distaste, but > they do NOT have two heads. Sorry about that, usually that is a joke made at the expense of the truly dispensable: lawyers ;) > > Not I. From my perspective, I'd think both the Penguin People and the > > Penguin Politicians are necessary for us to have any chance of > > success. > > The overall model is one where the total effect is the sum of all of > the components. > > My "wild guess" is that the multipler on "ice house"-like events is pretty > low. > > In contrast, I'm not sure quite how to evaluate my conversation today; > if it turns out I helped with that sale, it's probably on the order of > a few million dollars that travelled around. The more curious > question would be what happens next, where it conceivably influences > further sales strategy. > > If it gets the sales guys thinking more creatively, I'm pretty happy :-). > > My (probability-adjusted :-)) share of the $millions seems likely to > be more than the "ice house." Historically, the most important and revolutionary events generated absolutely no revenue. Conversely,... ;) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "Ahhh! We're gonna die! Right?" -Fry "Right." -Bender "Ahhh!" -Fry -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fajarpri-RL4StXjWbcMdnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 04:31:51 2007 From: fajarpri-RL4StXjWbcMdnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Fajar Priyanto) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 11:31:51 +0700 Subject: Sound In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200705301131.51906.fajarpri@arinet.org> On Wednesday 30 May 2007 01:38, Randy Jonasz wrote: > rjonasz at foucault:~$ lspci -vv | grep Audio > 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) High > Definition Audio Controller (rev 02) Hi Randy, I use Compaq Presario V3000 and seems like we have an identical sound device: 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) High Definition Audio Controller (rev 02) I use Opensuse10.2 and sound works nice. To test sound you can try playing a music CD. I believe ubuntu will start appropriate program automatically when you insert the CD. HTH, -- Fajar Priyanto | Reg'd Linux User #327841 | Linux tutorial http://linux2.arinet.org 11:29am up 5:11, 2.6.18.2-34-default GNU/Linux Let's use OpenOffice. http://www.openoffice.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fajarpri-RL4StXjWbcMdnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 04:48:35 2007 From: fajarpri-RL4StXjWbcMdnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Fajar Priyanto) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 11:48:35 +0700 Subject: Where to buy new PC in the GTA? In-Reply-To: <4655E450.8080401-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4655E252.8020401@rogers.com> <4655E450.8080401@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200705301148.36323.fajarpri@arinet.org> On Friday 25 May 2007 02:15, James Knott wrote: > Frank wrote: > > Hi All! > > > > After many years surviving on used PCs and build-my-own PCs my wife > > has agreed that I can buy a new (but not bank-breaking) desktop PC. > > Saw a couple in the stores last night (Acer and Lenovo) that were > > Athlon 64 bit dual processor with 1 Gig of RAM for like $650. I was > > really hoping to find this with 2 gig but still in the same price > > point (or cheaper if possible). Where should I be looking in the GTA? > > Memory is cheap. You should be able to stay close to the same price > range by tossing in another gig, for under $50 I agree. Topping the memory from 1Gig to 2Gig will definitely increase performance significantly. Another thing to consider is the graphic adapter. If you plan to use any 3D desktop effect, avoid ATi. Intel and Nvidia provide more compatibility. This is a very nice presentation between Vista and Linux 3D desktop effect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC5uEe5OzNQ Cheers, -- Fajar Priyanto | Reg'd Linux User #327841 | Linux tutorial http://linux2.arinet.org 11:45am up 5:26, 2.6.18.2-34-default GNU/Linux Let's use OpenOffice. http://www.openoffice.org =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Scanned with Copfilter Version 0.84beta2 (ProxSMTP 1.6) by Markus Madlener @ http://www.copfilter.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 05:43:21 2007 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 01:43:21 -0400 Subject: Where to buy new PC in the GTA? In-Reply-To: <200705301148.36323.fajarpri-RL4StXjWbcMdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> References: <4655E252.8020401@rogers.com> <4655E450.8080401@rogers.com> <200705301148.36323.fajarpri@arinet.org> Message-ID: <465D0EF9.2020505@golden.net> Fajar Priyanto wrote: > On Friday 25 May 2007 02:15, James Knott wrote: > >> Frank wrote: >> >>> Hi All! >>> >>> After many years surviving on used PCs and build-my-own PCs my wife >>> has agreed that I can buy a new (but not bank-breaking) desktop PC. >>> Saw a couple in the stores last night (Acer and Lenovo) that were >>> Athlon 64 bit dual processor with 1 Gig of RAM for like $650. I was >>> really hoping to find this with 2 gig but still in the same price >>> point (or cheaper if possible). Where should I be looking in the GTA? >>> >> Memory is cheap. You should be able to stay close to the same price >> range by tossing in another gig, for under $50 >> > > I agree. > Topping the memory from 1Gig to 2Gig will definitely increase performance > significantly. > > Another thing to consider is the graphic adapter. If you plan to use any 3D > desktop effect, avoid ATi. Intel and Nvidia provide more compatibility. > > This is a very nice presentation between Vista and Linux 3D desktop effect: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC5uEe5OzNQ > Cheers, > torontopcstores.com is a good online source. I prefer Canada Computers, Milestones & Premier Computer. john -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 06:53:08 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 02:53:08 -0400 Subject: [OT] TV, Internet, and Democracy In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0705221413n44c3362fp2555d13dd391c8e3@mail.gmail.com> <4656EB1D.8040305@telly.org> <1180103313.6569.93.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070525215943.6ecf917b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705291440w5363014crecbdb227c382f3eb@mail.gmail.com> <20070529183356.3da7b759@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <465CBF59.3050204@telly.org> <20070529204126.2987d475@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <99a6c38f0705291759i79fdbd1ekd45d07c182b6d662@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <465D1F54.5010103@telly.org> Christopher Browne wrote: > I have to take exception; my father used to be a senior bureaucrat (in > Ottawa, of course), and if you regard yourself as *so* different from > them that they seem like a different species, I have to wonder who's > the oddity. Indeed, this is part of the challenge that advocates face sometimes, is even helping the rest of the community understand that there _are_ certain people who have greater influence on FOSS adoption than others, and that given limited resources we should concentrate on them. The problem is that the culture difference is so vast sometimes that it's easier to dismiss (and dehumanize) the targets than figure out the tough task of what to say to them and how. One does not need to go very far in the world of open source projects to see utter contempt for promotion and marketing. There is a widespread belief that "if you build it (well enough), they will come", which of course on its own is sheer bunk. > Reality is that they are people of importance, notably to the desire > to see OSS software more widely deployed. Some may sit in Bill Gate's > pocket, although that's unlikely, as they are people who, due to their > political importance, find *many* people trying to curry favour with > them. In my own experience, I find that Microsoft is not a very well liked company. It is widely _admired_ for its ability to succeed in raw economic terms, but that admiration vanishes when the speaker talks as a consumer of their products. Where there is rabid defence of Microsoft, I find that it is not based on the same kind of affinity that Mac, Unix and Linux users tend to have. Rather, I find that more often than not the issue is one of inertia and fear. Managers -- especially those deep into their careers -- have much to lose in the corporate politics by choosing technology in which they are far less skilled than their subordinates. Fear of Microsoft/SCO attacks on open source have had an effect on the truly timid, but that FUD pales next to the negative consequence of sheer simple fear of the unknown. > I did my bit today; had a chat with some technical sales folk at IBM > on how they might position pSeries + PostgreSQL against some > alternatives :-). They may or may not win the sale; there were a few > key spots where they simply failed to understand how to sell OSS, and > I hope I helped with that. I don't think that IBM has a problem selling open source solution components. I do believe that the company probably balks at suggesting FOSS alternatives to its own DB2 product offerings. It may simply have a hard time wrapping its head around non-DB2 solutions. But it could lead to higher sales fof them.. > Pointedly, they were very worried about PostgreSQL service offerings, > and thought it seemed risky when I suggested that the customer ought > to have some "budding experts" in house. Well, IBM makes a lot of money on support and outsourcing. They don't want to hear about customers having in-house experts, that cuts into their own model. > I told them: If you pick OSS, having some local expertise is part and > parcel of it. You want a "total product" where you need NO expertise? > That's why you should buy DB2, Oracle, and such. The customer > already said they weren't interested in that, so they've already > committed to drawing in some OSS expertise in house. So the message to IBM is "work with a FOSS database or lose the sale"... Hmm, that'll get their attention... > Finding strategic people to talk to is of value. Most of the time, it > will fail, but that doesn't mean the effort was necessarily wasted. Then part of the preliminary research is finding out those who will be more inclined to listen, further increasing the chances of success given limited budgets, - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Stan-PAleLrdANoqY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 06:45:14 2007 From: Stan-PAleLrdANoqY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Stan Witkowski) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 02:45:14 -0400 Subject: Nokia N800 Internet Tablet PC Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20070530023015.03f36510@mail.the-wire.com> I bought my Nokia N800 from Nokia Canada (nokia.ca). CDN $470 + tax + shipping (around $7) several weeks ago. Ordered it online on a Wednesday, got it delivered to my door two days later on Friday morning. It runs Linux, and is slightly smaller than a paperback. Also has an FM radio tuner, MP3 and video player + web cam built in. It uses two SD cards for storage. Presently limited to two * 4GB cards, but future OS upgrades are expected to allow the use of higher capacity SDHC cards. ie 2 * 8GB, 2 * 16GB, etc. I have: - reflashed the OS to the latest version - gotten the WI-FI and Bluetooth working - downloaded what few applications are curently available for it I'd REALLY like to develop stock market charting software for it (100% of the reason for buying it), but finding software development info has been a complete pain. Bit and pieces are all over the map. (If you can help me, please email ASAP! Thanks!) (Item: I want to do development on a Windows XP Pro SP2 laptop.) (LYBNIZ - The only thing I've found that even comes close to onscreen graph plots... See: http://maemo.org/downloads/scientific/ Quick desc: Lybniz is an easy to use mathematical function graph plotter using pyGTK. ) If you have one, please let me know. We can start our own mini user group just for Nokia 770s and N800s. Note: I was told by a Carlos at Nokia Canada that Tigerdirect (the only other place I've found selling them in Toronto) imports them directly from the USA, and hence they have NO Canadian warranty validity from Nokia Canada. Stan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 11:28:01 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 07:28:01 -0400 Subject: Nokia N800 Internet Tablet PC In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20070530023015.03f36510-ZEWhMxyTXSNv1tLSo3TydwC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20070530023015.03f36510@mail.the-wire.com> Message-ID: <465D5FC1.7060106@rogers.com> Stan Witkowski wrote: > > I'd REALLY like to develop stock market charting software for it > (100% of the reason for buying it), but finding software > development info has been a complete pain. Bit and pieces are > all over the map. (If you can help me, please email ASAP! Thanks!) > (Item: I want to do development on a Windows XP Pro SP2 laptop.) > > > (LYBNIZ - The only thing I've found that even comes close to > onscreen graph plots... > See: http://maemo.org/downloads/scientific/ > Quick desc: Lybniz is an easy to use mathematical function graph > plotter using pyGTK. > ) > > > If you have one, please let me know. We can start our own mini user group > just for Nokia 770s and N800s. > > There is a mailing list available, where you may get some answers to your questions. You can join it here: https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users > Note: I was told by a Carlos at Nokia Canada that Tigerdirect (the > only other > place I've found selling them in Toronto) imports them directly from > the USA, > and hence they have NO Canadian warranty validity from Nokia Canada. > It also costs almost $70 more from TigerDirect. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 12:36:00 2007 From: myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles A. Braithwaite) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 08:36:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Nokia N800 Internet Tablet PC In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20070530023015.03f36510-ZEWhMxyTXSNv1tLSo3TydwC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20070530023015.03f36510@mail.the-wire.com> Message-ID: <15905210.1571180528560108.JavaMail.root@mail> You could just port something to it like http://www.openvest.org/Databases/ovpyq? The N800 has Python and pyGTK installed. So this wouldn't be that difficult. ----- "Stan Witkowski" wrote: > I bought my Nokia N800 from Nokia Canada (nokia.ca). > CDN $470 + tax + shipping (around $7) several weeks ago. > Ordered it online on a Wednesday, got it delivered to my door > two days later on Friday morning. > > It runs Linux, and is slightly smaller than a paperback. > Also has an FM radio tuner, MP3 and video player + web cam built in. > It uses two SD cards for storage. Presently limited to > two * 4GB cards, but future OS upgrades are expected to allow the > use of higher capacity SDHC cards. ie 2 * 8GB, 2 * 16GB, etc. > > I have: > - reflashed the OS to the latest version > - gotten the WI-FI and Bluetooth working > - downloaded what few applications are curently available for it > > I'd REALLY like to develop stock market charting software for it > (100% of the reason for buying it), but finding software > development info has been a complete pain. Bit and pieces are > all over the map. (If you can help me, please email ASAP! Thanks!) > (Item: I want to do development on a Windows XP Pro SP2 laptop.) > > > (LYBNIZ - The only thing I've found that even comes close to > onscreen graph plots... > See: http://maemo.org/downloads/scientific/ > Quick desc: Lybniz is an easy to use mathematical function graph > plotter > using pyGTK. > ) > > > If you have one, please let me know. We can start our own mini user > group > just for Nokia 770s and N800s. > > > Note: I was told by a Carlos at Nokia Canada that Tigerdirect (the > only other > place I've found selling them in Toronto) imports them directly from > the USA, > and hence they have NO Canadian warranty validity from Nokia Canada. > > Stan. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Myles A. Braithwaite Monkey in your Soul myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 14:13:38 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 10:13:38 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly (non-Bell) GTA DSL providers In-Reply-To: <20070529224837.30f18cc8-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522170642.89470.qmail@web51801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070522172542.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <021b01c79db9$91f34ba0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <465573E4.4010202@rogers.com> <465578D3.80903@primus.ca> <46557AD3.6020104@rogers.com> <465C9A36.3060106@primus.ca> <20070529224837.30f18cc8@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20070530141338.GF10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 29, 2007 at 10:48:37PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > I don't know if anyone said it was unethical, but you're right, it isn't if > it's in the terms of service. To me, it's just like the fact that you cannot > get a static IP from Bell if you want one. I think it was Lennart who once > said something about Sympatico being okay for browsing the web and not much > more. Sympatico is basically becoming just another AOL, offer the same vanilla > crap to millions of people, make it nearly impossible to complain, and hope that > somehow you keep enough customers to make the shareholders happy. I have never used sympatico. I have only heard bad things about them, and they charge way too much for what you get. I will probably move to DSL this summer (away from rogers) now that DSL became an option in the area. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 14:50:49 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 10:50:49 -0400 Subject: Homegrown Linux/FOSS Adverts In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705291633p26a385abvbe6f621c05095a40-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705291633p26a385abvbe6f621c05095a40@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1180536649.6569.346.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Tue, 2007-05-29 at 19:33 -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Ok, so this was the TV, Internet & Democracy thread. WTH. I'd just > like to know if anyone here thinks we _can_ make a difference. I think we can. I think there are lots of fronts to work on too. > Now, before anyone responds directly to that statement, I'd like to > clarify a moment. > > #1 - I know a bunch of folks on this list (and others besides) that > _would like to_ make a difference [in the way Linux/FOSS is > "understood" by the General Public]. All, fortunately, with differing > skill-bases. > > #2 - I know there's virtually no money to work with. Any financial > support would have to come from GTALUG sponsors and/or fundraising. > > #3a - I'm looking, for the moment, as to _why_ (eg. reasons *you* > might support an advertising campaign) > > #3b - and _how_ (eg. what media and/or strategies might *you* employ) > to make it possible. > > Perhaps these questions are rhetorical. Then again, I also suppose > that would depend on the feedback received. Here are some ideas that I think can make a difference. Many of these are grass roots and involve simply getting as many existing open source patrons to do a little work. 1. Canadian DMCA legislation. This is something that inhibits open source and should be very important to open source users and developers. The front here is political and I think the best way to make sure we aren't as hobbled as the US is to lobby for change. This is ongoing and has already worked to change the political landscape in Toronto. This key issue was reportedly responsible for an upset in a Toronto riding. This is a case of awareness, making people aware of the issue, how it affects them and encouraging them to write to their politicians, contact lobbies and spread the word. The EFF, CFIB and probably many others are potential lobby groups that could help (there's likely many more.) 2. DRM is another issue that threatens open source. This would probably be campaigns against companies. 3. Government tender issues. As a solution provider I see government tenders that fall outside the acceptable rules for tenders. Governments are not supposed to limit tenders to specific vendors, but in many cases they ask for very specific things like MS Office, or SQL server, etc. when they should be stating "A office suite of tools that are able to read and write certain formats". This is another lobby issue. 4. Support for new business. Here in Waterloo we have organizations that help startups. In Waterloo a lot tend to be technical companies. Many of these startups use Open Source simply because of the initial cost savings. Startups tend to have lots of labour, but no cash. I think we need to bring LUG chapters to these groups. Place it in a business environment and help them to find open source resources and resolve issues. 5. Attend Microsoft User Groups. It's amazing how little many MS people know about open source. I attend the MS meeting here in Waterloo and try to bring a sober spin MS and Open Source. Go to these groups with the thought that you only need to mention these products, not convert people. Push too hard and you'll lose them. Be nice, present projects in a objective light giving pros and cons then make yourself available for questions. A balanced approach will gain respect and credibility. I've even given open source presentations at these groups and have brought people to LUGs based on this. I'm sure there are lots of other avenues that are inexpensive to promote FLOSS. My company spends a fair amount of time advocating Linux and Open source to businesses at every business event that we attend and with every person who is willing to listen. We've been doing it for over a decade now and have converted a lot of companies. I'm certainly open to helping out in an advocacy project. I think it could be a clearing house for advocacy papers, polls, petitions, etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 15:03:29 2007 From: rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Dice) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 11:03:29 -0400 Subject: Homegrown Linux/FOSS Adverts In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705291633p26a385abvbe6f621c05095a40-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705291633p26a385abvbe6f621c05095a40@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bef4baf0705300803q625c5868qb0bc25b482a0c729@mail.gmail.com> Scott, As always I appreciate your enthusiasm. Do you have a target market and a corresponding message identified for the campaign? Do you have a desired outcome identified? I.e. something that would fill in the blank for the statement "We will know if our advertising efforts were successful if we notice that _______ happened afterwards." Also, I'm curious regarding what it is with the current state of the world that you find unappealing such that you want to influence it? Is it Linux desktop adoption? iPods dominate the mp3 player market rather than Linux-based players? Insufficient interoperability of Linux / FLOSS systems with systems provided by commerical vendors? What exactly are you unhappy with? Figuring out answers to these questions will probably make easier answering the questions I asked in the first paragraph. My impression of the software world is that it's working out pretty well for FLOSS in recent years and that the battles are mainly political and legal now. (E.g. DRM, patently unfair-and-getting-worse copyright regimes creeping across the world, patent policy with regards to software.) As long as the legal regime can be kept (or made) balanced then FLOSS will come out a winner in most avenues of interest and pretty much all places where it should. Cheers, Richard On 5/29/07, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > Ok, so this was the TV, Internet & Democracy thread. WTH. I'd just > like to know if anyone here thinks we _can_ make a difference. > > Now, before anyone responds directly to that statement, I'd like to > clarify a moment. > > #1 - I know a bunch of folks on this list (and others besides) that > _would like to_ make a difference [in the way Linux/FOSS is > "understood" by the General Public]. All, fortunately, with differing > skill-bases. > > #2 - I know there's virtually no money to work with. Any financial > support would have to come from GTALUG sponsors and/or fundraising. > > #3a - I'm looking, for the moment, as to _why_ (eg. reasons *you* > might support an advertising campaign) > > #3b - and _how_ (eg. what media and/or strategies might *you* employ) > to make it possible. > > Perhaps these questions are rhetorical. Then again, I also suppose > that would depend on the feedback received. > > -- > Scott Elcomb > > "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy > rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, > their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that > the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al > Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) > > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin > > '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting > on its shoes." - Mark Twain > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 15:16:29 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 11:16:29 -0400 Subject: Nokia N800 Internet Tablet PC In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20070530023015.03f36510-ZEWhMxyTXSNv1tLSo3TydwC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20070530023015.03f36510@mail.the-wire.com> Message-ID: <20070530151629.GG10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 30, 2007 at 02:45:14AM -0400, Stan Witkowski wrote: > I bought my Nokia N800 from Nokia Canada (nokia.ca). > CDN $470 + tax + shipping (around $7) several weeks ago. > Ordered it online on a Wednesday, got it delivered to my door > two days later on Friday morning. > > It runs Linux, and is slightly smaller than a paperback. > Also has an FM radio tuner, MP3 and video player + web cam built in. > It uses two SD cards for storage. Presently limited to > two * 4GB cards, but future OS upgrades are expected to allow the > use of higher capacity SDHC cards. ie 2 * 8GB, 2 * 16GB, etc. > > I have: > - reflashed the OS to the latest version > - gotten the WI-FI and Bluetooth working > - downloaded what few applications are curently available for it > > I'd REALLY like to develop stock market charting software for it > (100% of the reason for buying it), but finding software > development info has been a complete pain. Bit and pieces are > all over the map. (If you can help me, please email ASAP! Thanks!) > (Item: I want to do development on a Windows XP Pro SP2 laptop.) Well I would think development for linux is easiest under linux. Of course I believe development under anything other than windows is always easier. Of course you would be cross compiling no matter what, so it may not make that much of a difference. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 17:03:50 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 13:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: GTALug and Trade Shows. Message-ID: <566072.1888.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> On Monday the GTALug board meeting assessed what happened at the IT360 trade show, what was good, and not so good. On the great side was: - We pulled this off on a tiny budget :-) . Areas that need improvement: - More training for booth volunteers, make sure EVERYONE knows the "message" we are looking to put across. Amanda Yilmaz was praised at the meeting for doing an excellent job talking to people and being "on message" (promoting GTALug). - The need for better coordination was noted. There was discussion on how we go forward from here. The Asterisk user group (http://www.taug.ca/) has been setting up booths at the "Career Door" shows promoting their group. Now, I don't if the "Career Door" events are the best platform for us, but I am suggesting that we should be looking at more than just the IT360 shows. With this in mind we need to start looking ASAP at the following issues: - Ways to deal with the concerns noted above, basically volunteer training... - Booth furnishings - We need trade show furnishings with the following characteristics: - At IT360 we were with and furnished the CLUE booth. Had things turned out slightly differently we might have been with a 3rd group. So we need a set-up that can be quickly adapted to furnish a 10'x10', 10'x20' or 10'x30' booth (which at the moment I see as a 10'x10' booth with add-on parts that can be brought or left as required). - Key elements to the booth being: - A backdrop that lets us put the GTALug name up 8+ feet above the ground, and curtain (or otherwise mask off) anything behind the booth. - A place to display GTALug literature / membership forms (this may be as simple as a folding table or a folding magazine rack). - A place to store spare literature / swag and for volunteers to tuck coats out of sight. Likewise we should consider a place for a lock box where new member $ can be safely stored. - The booth furnishings need to be things that can be quickly set-up/torn down. Ideally it should be possible to set-up the booth without tools (where everything snaps or latches together) and a ladder should NOT be required. - The booth furnishings must be easily transported. Ideally they should be something that two/three volunteers could in a pinch transport by subway (without requiring volunteers with Mr. Universe strength :-) ). - The booth need to be tough, as we can expect these parts to be bumped up/down stairs, tossed in the back of a truck, bumped into by carts on the trade show floor, etc.. - The booth needs to be easily cleaned. At the last IT360 show we were close to the little snack bar. The possibility that someone may spill coffee (or whatever) on the booth must be considered. - Some sort of floor padding OR some way to sit down. After IT360 some volunteers noted how sore their feet were after standing for umpteen hours in the booth. We didn't bring in chairs at IT360 because we didn't want people to sit back and getting too relaxed. The sit down / don't get too relaxed situation could be handled with bar stools (where you can sit down without getting too relaxed...). Regardless, we need some way to keep volunteer feet happy... - The booth needs to be fairly cheap, we can NOT throw more than a few hundred dollars at a project like this. - The booth needs to look good and professional. Now, on the down side the above are fairly stiff requirements. On the up side, thanks to Drew Sulivan and his involvement in a local theatre group we can fairly easily get access to a wide range to shop tools, as well as be able to pick the brains of set designers, painters, etc... So, when should we meet for the next GTALug booth planning meeting :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 17:33:34 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 13:33:34 -0400 Subject: GTALug and Trade Shows. In-Reply-To: <566072.1888.qm-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <566072.1888.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070530173334.GH10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 30, 2007 at 01:03:50PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Monday the GTALug board meeting assessed what > happened at the IT360 trade show, what was good, and > not so good. On the great side was: > > - We pulled this off on a tiny budget :-) . > > Areas that need improvement: > > - More training for booth volunteers, make sure > EVERYONE knows the "message" we are looking to put > across. Amanda Yilmaz was praised at the meeting for > doing an excellent job talking to people and being "on > message" (promoting GTALug). > > - The need for better coordination was noted. > > There was discussion on how we go forward from here. > The Asterisk user group (http://www.taug.ca/) has been > setting up booths at the "Career Door" shows promoting > their group. Now, I don't if the "Career Door" events > are the best platform for us, but I am suggesting that > we should be looking at more than just the IT360 > shows. > > With this in mind we need to start looking ASAP at the > following issues: > > - Ways to deal with the concerns noted above, > basically volunteer training... > > - Booth furnishings - We need trade show furnishings > with the following characteristics: > > - At IT360 we were with and furnished the CLUE > booth. Had things turned out slightly differently we > might have been with a 3rd group. So we need a set-up > that can be quickly adapted to furnish a 10'x10', > 10'x20' or 10'x30' booth (which at the moment I see as > a 10'x10' booth with add-on parts that can be brought > or left as required). > > - Key elements to the booth being: > - A backdrop that lets us put the GTALug name up > 8+ feet above the ground, and curtain (or otherwise > mask off) anything behind the booth. > - A place to display GTALug literature / > membership forms (this may be as simple as a folding > table or a folding magazine rack). > - A place to store spare literature / swag and for > volunteers to tuck coats out of sight. Likewise we > should consider a place for a lock box where new > member $ can be safely stored. > > - The booth furnishings need to be things that can > be quickly set-up/torn down. Ideally it should be > possible to set-up the booth without tools (where > everything snaps or latches together) and a ladder > should NOT be required. > > - The booth furnishings must be easily transported. > Ideally they should be something that two/three > volunteers could in a pinch transport by subway > (without requiring volunteers with Mr. Universe > strength :-) ). > > - The booth need to be tough, as we can expect these > parts to be bumped up/down stairs, tossed in the back > of a truck, bumped into by carts on the trade show > floor, etc.. > > - The booth needs to be easily cleaned. At the last > IT360 show we were close to the little snack bar. The > possibility that someone may spill coffee (or > whatever) on the booth must be considered. > > - Some sort of floor padding OR some way to sit > down. After IT360 some volunteers noted how sore their > feet were after standing for umpteen hours in the > booth. We didn't bring in chairs at IT360 because we > didn't want people to sit back and getting too > relaxed. The sit down / don't get too relaxed > situation could be handled with bar stools (where you > can sit down without getting too relaxed...). > Regardless, we need some way to keep volunteer feet > happy... > > - The booth needs to be fairly cheap, we can NOT > throw more than a few hundred dollars at a project > like this. > > - The booth needs to look good and professional. So professional, cheap, and easy to carry around. Is this one of those 'pick any two of these three' cases? That is, is this like 'fast, cheap, good, pick any two you want'? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 17:52:56 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 13:52:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: GTALug and Trade Shows. In-Reply-To: <20070530173334.GH10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070530173334.GH10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <197392.63619.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 30, 2007 at 01:03:50PM -0400, Colin > McGregor wrote: [snip of ideal booth description] > So professional, cheap, and easy to carry around. > Is this one of those > 'pick any two of these three' cases? That is, is > this like 'fast, > cheap, good, pick any two you want'? Well, at some past trade shows we have had a booth that more-or-less met the noted characteristics, thanks to the loan of a profesionally designed/built booth. That wasn't an option this time out. So, while I think we can come up with "professional, cheap, and easy to carry around" it is something we will have to think carefully through... Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 18:04:01 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 14:04:01 -0400 Subject: GTALug and Trade Shows. In-Reply-To: <20070530173334.GH10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <566072.1888.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070530173334.GH10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1180548241.6569.394.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Wed, 2007-05-30 at 13:33 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > So professional, cheap, and easy to carry around. Is this one of those > 'pick any two of these three' cases? That is, is this like 'fast, > cheap, good, pick any two you want'? Creativity can go a long way. The BSD booth was quite good. I think that graphic was more than a couple hundred dollars, but it was effective. The very cool graphics was the entire thing that made that work. Of course the women in devil horns and tails helped out a lot too. So take a panel (graphic or velcro,) add some structural creativity and you have a booth. For example, take a canvas graphic panel like BSD had (or a velcro loop fabric) and use tent-like fibreglass rods linked together at the corners, keeping the panel taut. Plug that into a simple base and you've got a very portable pop-up that essentially folds into a small suitcase. I even think you could do that with a large circle. Hem a fabric circle, put a flexible fibreglass rod inside the seam around the circumference and crimp the ends together to complete the loop. Close it up like one of those pop-up tents by folding it into a figure 8. I don't know if it's possible but a 10' circle may just "fold up" into a 3' or 4' loop. With the right graphics it could look pretty cool too. For fliers we picked up a sheet metal magazine rack (IKEA again) that is supposed to be attached to a wall and instead built a little A frame out of aluminum angle stock (secured by pop-rivets) so it stood up by itself. In fact it looked good enough to sit in the Net Direct conference room between shows. The TAUG booth used bar stool high chairs and cafe tables from IKEA. Their not too portable, but the idea was that it was for customer to sit. Often it was staff resting though, but that's far better than standard chairs. I'm sure that some higher chairs like that could be found that fold up. If you have the time and the effort to source all these exotic materials I'm pretty sure you can get something very good for a little more than your budget. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 21:16:40 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 21:16:40 +0000 Subject: Ohio LinuxFest 2007 Announcement... Message-ID: http://www.ohiolinux.org/ They have dates; Friday Sept 28 thru Sept 30, at the Greater Columbus Convention Center. I spoke at it last year: September's a long time from now, so I don't yet have plans :-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 22:43:29 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 18:43:29 -0400 Subject: Ripping protected audio Message-ID: <1e55af990705301543x7bda9761j3c1b520c94838bd9@mail.gmail.com> I've played with audacity and ecasound and both seem to be recording really terrible audio. Audacity is frustrating to work with, and I see a lot of different audio options which don't seem to change anything. I'm presently unable to get JACK to do much. Is there one consistent guide out there which helps with such a topic? I'd be willing to get/burn/boot from a live distro to use its tools, if that's an option. audacity: I changed my input/output settings to "ALSA (default)" ecasound: ecasound -i:/dev/dsp -o somefile.wav Does this work with ALSA? Are there recommended quality settings? I am fairly familiar with some other things I ought to work with - like kmix settings. I played and played and with what I think are the correct settings, my recordings still sound terrible. In particular, there's a band who have a page on myspace, and they have audio up there which isn't released yet (because they're unsigned). I want to be able to grab/archive it. This is one of those "I'd buy it if I could" moments. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 00:30:14 2007 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 20:30:14 -0400 Subject: Ripping protected audio In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705301543x7bda9761j3c1b520c94838bd9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705301543x7bda9761j3c1b520c94838bd9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200705302030.14936.amarjan@pobox.com> On May 30, 2007 06:43:29 pm Sy Ali wrote: > I've played with audacity and ecasound and both seem to be recording > really terrible audio. I'm sure Lennart knows how to configure the ALSA equivalent of a loopback device by heart, but until he replies, why are you trying to record the sound from your sound card instead of transcoding the audio stream? Have you tried playing the audio with mplayer and telling it to write the PCM out to disk? For instance, I used the following to grab a Real Media stream from CBC a few weeks back: mplayer -playlist 030407.ram -ao pcm:file=bo-lozoff.wav -vc dummy -vo null -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 01:45:03 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 21:45:03 -0400 Subject: Homegrown Linux/FOSS Adverts In-Reply-To: <5bef4baf0705300803q625c5868qb0bc25b482a0c729-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705291633p26a385abvbe6f621c05095a40@mail.gmail.com> <5bef4baf0705300803q625c5868qb0bc25b482a0c729@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0705301845mf5eb1d9j56a098042b211536@mail.gmail.com> On 5/30/07, Richard Dice wrote: > As always I appreciate your enthusiasm. Do you have a target market and a > corresponding message identified for the campaign? Do you have a desired > outcome identified? I.e. something that would fill in the blank for the > statement "We will know if our advertising efforts were successful if we > notice that _______ happened afterwards." At the moment, I'm just testing the waters. I haven't gone too deep with any ideas as yet, but it's been nagging at me since the FSOSS conference last year. Every time I see one of those commercials on TV featuring characters representing Mac and PC, I have to ask myself where is Tux? > Also, I'm curious regarding what it is with the current state of the world > that you find unappealing such that you want to influence it? Is it Linux > desktop adoption? iPods dominate the mp3 player market rather than > Linux-based players? Insufficient interoperability of Linux / FLOSS systems > with systems provided by commerical vendors? What exactly are you unhappy > with? Figuring out answers to these questions will probably make easier > answering the questions I asked in the first paragraph. > > My impression of the software world is that it's working out pretty well for > FLOSS in recent years and that the battles are mainly political and legal > now. (E.g. DRM, patently unfair-and-getting-worse copyright regimes creeping > across the world, patent policy with regards to software.) As long as the > legal regime can be kept (or made) balanced then FLOSS will come out a > winner in most avenues of interest and pretty much all places where it > should. I agree with you entirely on the second paragraph - things do look good for the acceptance of Linux and FOSS in general, so long as we keep pushing. What I find unappealing in the current state of the world... I'm more than a little surprised at this question since it truly cuts directly to what makes me want to "make a difference." It has very little to do with software though. Rather, the enthusiasm that you (and others in the past have) mentioned is powered by the social aspects of FOSS. To fully answer your question, I would have to digress into topics that might not be appropriate. I'll touch on it a bit, being as brief as possible to avoid potential invocations of Godwin's Law; it is precisely the current state of the world that I worry about. I recall reading, many years ago, about the state of the world prior to the World Wars - and see a number of similarities with todays world. (I'm not trying to foretell the future or any such thing, but Man has a habit of becoming complacent and not being prepared for trying experiences. That, and the old adage about history repeating itself.) I remember reading Orwell in school. I remember many conversations with Vets. There are dozens of related topics I could mention, but basically it comes down to the fact that the more people communicate the better. Communication is something that the Open Source community excels at, IMO. The more we advertise, the more the general public becomes aware of what we do and how, the more people learn how to reach out to one another. Obviously it's not the only way, but it does seem to me that it is a very effective approach - encouraging the sharing of ideas and benevolence to one another. -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 02:22:52 2007 From: rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Dice) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 22:22:52 -0400 Subject: Homegrown Linux/FOSS Adverts In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705301845mf5eb1d9j56a098042b211536-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705291633p26a385abvbe6f621c05095a40@mail.gmail.com> <5bef4baf0705300803q625c5868qb0bc25b482a0c729@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0705301845mf5eb1d9j56a098042b211536@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bef4baf0705301922u475229cdn99195a26a9c7bd80@mail.gmail.com> > Every time I see one of those commercials on TV featuring characters > representing Mac and PC, I have to ask myself where is Tux? Oh, that's an easy question to answer - http://fuhrerchan.be/ma/src/1157960476967.jpg :-) Cheers, Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 10:23:03 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 06:23:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Homegrown Linux/FOSS Adverts In-Reply-To: <5bef4baf0705301922u475229cdn99195a26a9c7bd80-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <5bef4baf0705301922u475229cdn99195a26a9c7bd80@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <792315.39770.qm@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Richard Dice wrote: > > Every time I see one of those commercials on TV > featuring characters > > representing Mac and PC, I have to ask myself > where is Tux? > > > Oh, that's an easy question to answer - > > http://fuhrerchan.be/ma/src/1157960476967.jpg > > :-) > > Cheers, > Richard Or Novell has done some parody ads where Linux is shown as an attractive woman. Have a look here: http://www.novell.com/video/ The ads you want are tagged "PC Mac Linux". Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 14:03:08 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:03:08 -0400 Subject: Homegrown Linux/FOSS Adverts In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705291633p26a385abvbe6f621c05095a40-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705291633p26a385abvbe6f621c05095a40@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 29/05/07, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Ok, so this was the TV, Internet & Democracy thread. WTH. I'd just > like to know if anyone here thinks we _can_ make a difference. Alright Scott, I'll rise to that bait; yes, with a bit of cash and a few of the faithful, to carry stuff, we can make professional grade adverts. As I'm sure many of you have heard me brag; I have spent most of my life working in a vast range of capacities in radio, theatre, film and television. I am (IMNSHO) a very good writer, director and cameraman. I've shot NFB documentaries, national commercials, and Directed live action, stunts, special effects, using every technique and piece of equipment imaginable. I have a wide contact network of suppliers and professionals and possess a surprising array of production equipment. If some other folks are seriously interested, we could kick out world class productions, and I think we SHOULD ! At the caffe, we have been tossing around a few concepts, including yet another Mac/PC/linux spots, and have even cast them ! (one of you reaading this has been cast as PC, but you don't know it yet) I can get a studio, lights, sound and camera, for basically nothing, but I haven't got the time or energy to go it alone. this summer I hope to solidify a group of the OSS-enthused into a working group who are serious about large-scale high-impact campaigns. on a related note, hiring hugely visible billboards have been suggested, and I think that's a SUPER idea ! the first one I'd like to see goes like this; ==================== THIS PENGUIN .-"""-. ' \ |,. ,-. | |()L( ()| | |,' `".| | |.___.',| ` .j `--"' ` `. / ' ' \ / / ` `. / / ` . / / l | . , | | ,"`. .| | _.' ``. | `..-'l | `.`, | `. | `. __.j ) |__ |--""___| ,-' `"--...,+"""" `._,.-' POWERS THE INTERNET ==================== simple, intriguing and undeniable, this giant poster will have the entire city talking about linux and explaining to each other that, yes, in fact, the majority of the worlds servers are penguin powered. Many conversations will then turn to "have you SEEN the new linux desktops ?..." and the very idea that our precious internet depends on a cute (if gigantic) penguin will have many ready to defend it against inevitable media attacks. I bet if we crystallized this goal (to rent a billboard next to the the Gardener for a month) the community could mobilize the funding required. so if you REALLY want to promote, let's talk. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 14:33:24 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:33:24 -0400 Subject: Ripping protected audio In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705301543x7bda9761j3c1b520c94838bd9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705301543x7bda9761j3c1b520c94838bd9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070531143324.GI10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 30, 2007 at 06:43:29PM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > I've played with audacity and ecasound and both seem to be recording > really terrible audio. > > Audacity is frustrating to work with, and I see a lot of different > audio options which don't seem to change anything. I can't figure out what you are trying to do. > I'm presently unable to get JACK to do much. > > Is there one consistent guide out there which helps with such a topic? > > I'd be willing to get/burn/boot from a live distro to use its tools, > if that's an option. > > > audacity: > > I changed my input/output settings to "ALSA (default)" > > ecasound: > > ecasound -i:/dev/dsp -o somefile.wav You could just use 'arecord' to record from any alsa device. > Does this work with ALSA? Are there recommended quality settings? > > I am fairly familiar with some other things I ought to work with - > like kmix settings. I played and played and with what I think are the > correct settings, my recordings still sound terrible. > > In particular, there's a band who have a page on myspace, and they > have audio up there which isn't released yet (because they're > unsigned). I want to be able to grab/archive it. This is one of > those "I'd buy it if I could" moments. So is it playing through a flash plugin or something? On many sounds cards alsa can record the output. Run alsamixer, hit tab to move to capture view, then look for an entry named 'mix'. If you hit space on that one you should set the capture input to that which should let whatever is recording from your sound card record what the sound card is outputting. This uses an analog loopback on the card to do the work, so it won't be that great quality. For high quality you want something like an sb live or related, where the capture choices include things like 'wave' which simply lets you record any pcm output that goes through the chip before it is converted to analog. Not sure any sound card that doesn't use a fancy DSP can do that though. It should also be possible to setup copy devices in alsa using asoundrc although how one would do that I don't know, since I just use an sb live which doesn't require doing any software mixing or copying or any of the other stuff people use asoundrc for. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 14:35:51 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:35:51 -0400 Subject: Homegrown Linux/FOSS Adverts In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0705291633p26a385abvbe6f621c05095a40@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070531143551.GJ10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 31, 2007 at 10:03:08AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > on a related note, hiring hugely visible billboards have been > suggested, and I think that's a SUPER idea ! > the first one I'd like to see goes like this; > > ==================== > THIS PENGUIN > .-"""-. > ' \ > |,. ,-. | > |()L( ()| | > |,' `".| | > |.___.',| ` > .j `--"' ` `. > / ' ' \ > / / ` `. > / / ` . > / / l | > . , | | > ,"`. .| | > _.' ``. | `..-'l > | `.`, | `. > | `. __.j ) > |__ |--""___| ,-' > `"--...,+"""" `._,.-' > > POWERS THE INTERNET > ==================== > simple, intriguing and undeniable, this giant poster will have the > entire city talking about linux and explaining to each other that, > yes, in fact, the majority of the worlds servers are penguin powered. > Many conversations will then turn to "have you SEEN the new linux > desktops ?..." and the very idea that our precious internet depends on > a cute (if gigantic) penguin will have many ready to defend it against > inevitable media attacks. I bet if we crystallized this goal (to rent > a billboard next to the the Gardener for a month) the community could > mobilize the funding required. I think to be much closer to the truth you would need a BSD deamon next to tux since I think combined they cover a very large amount of the internet servers. Of course I know some ISPs run Solaris on sun hardware, and of course there is all the cisco and juniper, etc, gear too. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 15:09:09 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 11:09:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Homegrown Linux/FOSS Adverts In-Reply-To: <20070531143551.GJ10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070531143551.GJ10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <893039.88889.qm@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 31, 2007 at 10:03:08AM -0400, David J > Patrick wrote: > > on a related note, hiring hugely visible > billboards have been > > suggested, and I think that's a SUPER idea ! > > the first one I'd like to see goes like this; > > > > ==================== > > THIS PENGUIN > > .-"""-. > > ' \ > > |,. ,-. | > > |()L( ()| | > > |,' `".| | > > |.___.',| ` > > .j `--"' ` `. > > / ' ' \ > > / / ` `. > > / / ` . > > / / l | > > . , | | > > ,"`. .| | > > _.' ``. | `..-'l > > | `.`, | `. > > | `. __.j ) > > |__ |--""___| ,-' > > `"--...,+"""" `._,.-' > > > > POWERS THE INTERNET > > ==================== > > simple, intriguing and undeniable, this giant > poster will have the > > entire city talking about linux and explaining to > each other that, > > yes, in fact, the majority of the worlds servers > are penguin powered. > > Many conversations will then turn to "have you > SEEN the new linux > > desktops ?..." and the very idea that our precious > internet depends on > > a cute (if gigantic) penguin will have many ready > to defend it against > > inevitable media attacks. I bet if we crystallized > this goal (to rent > > a billboard next to the the Gardener for a month) > the community could > > mobilize the funding required. > > I think to be much closer to the truth you would > need a BSD deamon next > to tux since I think combined they cover a very > large amount of the > internet servers. Of course I know some ISPs run > Solaris on sun > hardware, and of course there is all the cisco and > juniper, etc, gear > too. :) One of the Unix Unanimous semi-regulars I know considers Linux too unreliable to use as a server OS. Said person's home computer set-up is a mix of Sun and old SGI machines (a very hard core Unix geek :-) ). So, yes you can run a very solid ISP and be Linux free (it will just cost you extra), what is still almost impossible to do is run a reliable ISP based on Windows... This noted there will be a "free" Microsoft marketing (er ... "educational") event coming up on June 16th down at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre, details to be seen here: http://www.microsoft.com/canada/technet/energizeit/ Last time I attended a Microsoft event the food was excellent (someone at Microsoft knows how to pick a first rate venue :-) )... As is, I plan to attend, and while there I expect to ... loose ... some copies of Knoppix :-) . Question is, do I wear a Tux lapel pin :-) . Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 15:22:55 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 11:22:55 -0400 Subject: Homegrown Linux/FOSS Adverts In-Reply-To: <893039.88889.qm-fjYszm/wOJWB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <893039.88889.qm@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <465EE84F.2000800@ve3syb.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > One of the Unix Unanimous semi-regulars I know > considers Linux too unreliable to use as a server OS. Interesting. I would wonder how long ago they developed that opinion and what version of Linux they were running at the time. > This noted there will be a "free" Microsoft marketing > (er ... "educational") event coming up on June 16th > down at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre, It could be interesting to hear what they have to say in their "security" talks. If someone attends the event I would also be interested to hear what they include in the "Excitement Kit" which all attendees will be given. Discount coupons for upgrades to the more expensive versions of Vista perhaps? :-) -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cheska.p.s-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 15:58:25 2007 From: cheska.p.s-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (cheska cheska) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 11:58:25 -0400 Subject: OT: Bill Gates show off Message-ID: <2bd151610705310858o31c37feeq95e9bff727310adf@mail.gmail.com> wicked! http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/sticker-shock/video-of-bill-gates-showing-off-his-expensive-table-264453.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 16:21:25 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 12:21:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Homegrown Linux/FOSS Adverts In-Reply-To: <465EE84F.2000800-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <465EE84F.2000800@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <982680.67166.qm@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Kevin Cozens wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > > One of the Unix Unanimous semi-regulars I know > > considers Linux too unreliable to use as a server > OS. > > Interesting. I would wonder how long ago they > developed that opinion and what > version of Linux they were running at the time. > > > This noted there will be a "free" Microsoft > marketing > > (er ... "educational") event coming up on June > 16th > > down at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre, > > It could be interesting to hear what they have to > say in their "security" > talks. If someone attends the event I would also be > interested to hear what > they include in the "Excitement Kit" which all > attendees will be given. > Discount coupons for upgrades to the more expensive > versions of Vista perhaps? :-) Well, the last (well only) Microsoft event I attended everyone got (along with an excellent meal) full retail copy of Windows 2003 Standard Edition (my copy is still wrapped in the original plastic on my book shelf :-) ) and a copy of a Microsoft Press text book on 2003. Ironic thing, I signed up for a Windows 2003 course that started earlier this month, and my copy of 2003 was / is useless, as the course uses features only found in the 2003 Enterprise or Data Center editions... Sigh... Any event there are some Microsoft products I could get somewhat excited over. I like some of the Microsoft mice and keyboards (in fact my main home (Linux) box has both a Microsoft Natural keyboard (ugly, but comfortable) and a Microsoft wireless mouse). Also the Microsoft XBox360 machines can be made to run Linux :-) . Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 17:55:11 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 13:55:11 -0400 Subject: Ripping protected audio In-Reply-To: <20070531143324.GI10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705301543x7bda9761j3c1b520c94838bd9@mail.gmail.com> <20070531143324.GI10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990705311055j754733efqcd8e97dc6593bc00@mail.gmail.com> On 5/31/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I can't figure out what you are trying to do. ... > So is it playing through a flash plugin or something? Yes, recording the audio played back via my browser and the flash plugin. > You could just use 'arecord' to record from any alsa device. I'll check this out. > On many sounds cards alsa can record the output. Run alsamixer, hit tab > to move to capture view, then look for an entry named 'mix'. If you hit > space on that one you should set the capture input to that which should > let whatever is recording from your sound card record what the sound > card is outputting. This uses an analog loopback on the card to do the > work, so it won't be that great quality. This is what I was doing - and so now I know why I'm not getting great quality. > For high quality you want something like an sb live or related, where > the capture choices include things like 'wave' which simply lets you > record any pcm output that goes through the chip before it is converted > to analog. Not sure any sound card that doesn't use a fancy DSP can do > that though. I think I've got one of those laying around. I'll see if I can find it. > It should also be possible to setup copy devices in alsa using asoundrc > although how one would do that I don't know, since I just use an sb live > which doesn't require doing any software mixing or copying or any of the > other stuff people use asoundrc for. So it sounds like my choices are arecord, and then the other sound card.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 17:56:45 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 13:56:45 -0400 Subject: Ripping protected audio In-Reply-To: <200705302030.14936.amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705301543x7bda9761j3c1b520c94838bd9@mail.gmail.com> <200705302030.14936.amarjan@pobox.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990705311056q6c94a52co86bc83d37e836452@mail.gmail.com> On 5/30/07, Andrej Marjan wrote: > why are you trying to record the sound > from your sound card instead of transcoding the audio stream? Because I had never heard of such a thing. =) Lennart talked about using a different video card for this, so it's a direction I now know I should research.. > Have you tried playing the audio with mplayer and telling it to write the PCM > out to disk? The audio was from a flash plugin so that's not an option for me. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 17:55:09 2007 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 13:55:09 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: ascii CanuckTux] Message-ID: <465F0BFD.1000707@primus.ca> This has become a test. Does the TLUG listserv truncate long lines? These lines = 109 characters. 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CopyRight-4Vfv9saVPyeT15sufhRIGw at public.gmane.org Please excuse the noise. Won't happen again. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 18:29:52 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 14:29:52 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: ascii CanuckTux] In-Reply-To: <465F0BFD.1000707-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <465F0BFD.1000707@primus.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0705311129l2bc90667g8788c33bb5089544@mail.gmail.com> On 5/31/07, George Nicol wrote: > This has become a test. Does the TLUG listserv truncate long lines? > These lines = 109 characters. It works when I try this at home. If I copy from Gmail into GEdit, I can see Tux. My first impression is that Gmail wraps, but the list server doesn't. -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 18:32:19 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 14:32:19 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: ascii CanuckTux] In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705311129l2bc90667g8788c33bb5089544-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <465F0BFD.1000707@primus.ca> <99a6c38f0705311129l2bc90667g8788c33bb5089544@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420705311132l67ac9b20ufd9cbb82f2a656c7@mail.gmail.com> On 5/31/07, Scott Elcomb wrote: > If I copy from Gmail into GEdit, I can see Tux. My first impression > is that Gmail wraps, but the list server doesn't. You can see Tux in GMail by choosing "Show Original" from the drop-down menu in the top-right corner of George's email. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 18:38:28 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 14:38:28 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: ascii CanuckTux] In-Reply-To: <7ac602420705311132l67ac9b20ufd9cbb82f2a656c7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <465F0BFD.1000707@primus.ca> <99a6c38f0705311129l2bc90667g8788c33bb5089544@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420705311132l67ac9b20ufd9cbb82f2a656c7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0705311138j6f9266f3x9c0462049449ad9b@mail.gmail.com> On 5/31/07, Ian Petersen wrote: > On 5/31/07, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > If I copy from Gmail into GEdit, I can see Tux. My first impression > > is that Gmail wraps, but the list server doesn't. > > You can see Tux in GMail by choosing "Show Original" from the > drop-down menu in the top-right corner of George's email. Thanks Ian - looks "much more better" than in gEdit. =) -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 20:03:50 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 16:03:50 -0400 Subject: [OT]: Segway News Message-ID: <99a6c38f0705311303i53b18as917cf23d62e5aea5@mail.gmail.com> Haven't heard anything in many months regarding the use of Segways' in Toronto, but this "Oddly Enough" Reuters report says the NYPD is now using them. http://tinyurl.com/2exepb http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyid=2007-05-31T145530Z_01_N30446232_RTRUKOC_0_US-NEWYORK-POLICE-SEGWAY.xml Just curious, has there been any related news this year for T.O.? -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 21:12:17 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 17:12:17 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: ascii CanuckTux] In-Reply-To: <465F0BFD.1000707-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <465F0BFD.1000707@primus.ca> Message-ID: <465F3A31.7040705@telly.org> George Nicol wrote: > This has become a test. Does the TLUG listserv truncate long lines? > These lines = 109 characters. It works when I try this at home. It works fine for me on Thunderbird. (though I note that one of the lines, arond the beak and starting with "h#A2rr" was underlined, and ofered as a "mailto:" link... - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 21:32:43 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 17:32:43 -0400 Subject: Ripping protected audio In-Reply-To: <1e55af990705311056q6c94a52co86bc83d37e836452-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705301543x7bda9761j3c1b520c94838bd9@mail.gmail.com> <200705302030.14936.amarjan@pobox.com> <1e55af990705311056q6c94a52co86bc83d37e836452@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070531213243.GK10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 31, 2007 at 01:56:45PM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > Lennart talked about using a different video card for this, so it's a > direction I now know I should research.. Sounds cards do audio better. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 21:53:12 2007 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 17:53:12 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: ascii CanuckTux] In-Reply-To: <465F3A31.7040705-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <465F0BFD.1000707@primus.ca> <465F3A31.7040705@telly.org> Message-ID: <465F43C8.8060008@primus.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > It works fine for me on Thunderbird. > (though I note that one of the lines, around the beak > and starting with h#A2rr" was underlined, and offered > as a "mailto:" link... Same here exactly. I'm using Thunderbird on Ubuntu LTS. The first time I sent it (within the body of the message) as a reply to DJ Patrick (humour intended, emoticon omitted), there was a bunch of whitespace that appeared (to me) to be lost. Select, copy, and paste into gEdit, then using spaces inserted at the belly whitespace to pad the line(s) until right justified... restored the ascii art image. Oddly only some lines (containing tabs?) were shortened. So did anyone go to http://photo2text.com with a picture? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 21:54:30 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 17:54:30 -0400 Subject: [OT]: The Keys to Slashdot Message-ID: <99a6c38f0705311454v71cb1680vf96aa77a2f03be3f@mail.gmail.com> I've been a /. member for a while, but really haven't posted much. Today, I happened to catch a post (http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/31/1933243) on commented on it early. Subsequently, my post has been modded up more than any other I've made (5, Interesting). While the points I made were (IMO) valid, is the "key to success" on Slashdot posting ASAP after an article becomes available? [This might sound much like a "newbie" question to some... The only response I could possibly give being: I am always learning and will always be a noob.] -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists