From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 1 01:07:43 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 21:07:43 -0400 Subject: Ripping protected audio In-Reply-To: <20070531213243.GK10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705301543x7bda9761j3c1b520c94838bd9@mail.gmail.com> <200705302030.14936.amarjan@pobox.com> <1e55af990705311056q6c94a52co86bc83d37e836452@mail.gmail.com> <20070531213243.GK10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990705311807j74e42699nb2fd402a8bc44ad2@mail.gmail.com> On 5/31/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 31, 2007 at 01:56:45PM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > > Lennart talked about using a different video card for this, so it's a > > direction I now know I should research.. > > Sounds cards do audio better. :) Oops, yeah that. =p -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 1 01:11:27 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 21:11:27 -0400 Subject: [OT]: The Keys to Slashdot In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705311454v71cb1680vf96aa77a2f03be3f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705311454v71cb1680vf96aa77a2f03be3f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990705311811r472d47ecy5fe241f738fc4910@mail.gmail.com> On 5/31/07, Scott Elcomb wrote: > While the points I made were (IMO) valid, is the "key to success" on > Slashdot posting ASAP after an article becomes available? It sounds logical. The earlier it's posted is the more eyes will read it.. Plus if you post later, original thoughts tend to get drowned out by the same comment-content being posted over and over and over again. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 1 01:41:57 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 01:41:57 +0000 Subject: [OT]: The Keys to Slashdot In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0705311454v71cb1680vf96aa77a2f03be3f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0705311454v71cb1680vf96aa77a2f03be3f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/31/07, Scott Elcomb wrote: > While the points I made were (IMO) valid, is the "key to success" on > Slashdot posting ASAP after an article becomes available? Yup, that's pretty much the "key to karma." It fits with the way journalism works; the *first* one to get to the Big Story gets the fame and fortune. Late commentary turns into a big "also ran" situation; no /. "karma" to be had there... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 1 14:49:29 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:49:29 -0400 Subject: What to do? It's Google's Street View. Message-ID: <99a6c38f0706010749u7ca16c8amac2b2bd715ff74d8@mail.gmail.com> Has anyone played with Google's new toy "Street View" in Google Maps? After reading the /. story this morning I did. I just don't know what to say. Amazing technology, but... damn. What interesting times we live in. Not doubt about it, Google's got balls. http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/06/01/1219256.shtml I'm stunned. -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 1 14:59:21 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:59:21 -0400 Subject: What to do? It's Google's Street View. In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0706010749u7ca16c8amac2b2bd715ff74d8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0706010749u7ca16c8amac2b2bd715ff74d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070601145921.GB1758@watson-wilson.ca> When George Orwell created Bigbrother who could have predicted how different it would turn out. Between Google, and the pervasive presence of camera phones and web cams the citizens are now firmly doing the watching. Disturbing? Yes, but it far better than Orwell's prediction. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 28 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 1 15:09:04 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 11:09:04 -0400 Subject: What to do? It's Google's Street View. In-Reply-To: <20070601145921.GB1758-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0706010749u7ca16c8amac2b2bd715ff74d8@mail.gmail.com> <20070601145921.GB1758@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0706010809i394387fdwcc496983f90b0573@mail.gmail.com> On 6/1/07, Neil Watson wrote: > When George Orwell created Bigbrother who could have predicted how > different it would turn out. Between Google, and the pervasive presence > of camera phones and web cams the citizens are now firmly doing the watching. > Disturbing? Yes, but it far better than Orwell's prediction. Disturbing indeed. I can go with better than Orwell's, but not much. There's no turning back: - the public knows the technology is there, and there will be those that abuse it. Wired is running a contest about photos captured from Street View: http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/05/request_for_urb.html I voted robots.txt up. -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 1 16:16:08 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 12:16:08 -0400 Subject: USB wifi Dongles, Kismet, Toronto Message-ID: <46604648.4010105@rogers.com> Hey all, Could any recommend a make & model of usb wifi dongle that works with Kismet, and is available in a college st. store? I've not had much luck with the newer gear. Cheers, Byron -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 1 16:21:47 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 12:21:47 -0400 Subject: USB wifi Dongles, Kismet, Toronto In-Reply-To: <46604648.4010105-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46604648.4010105@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4660479B.6000302@utoronto.ca> Byron Sonne wrote: > Hey all, > > Could any recommend a make & model of usb wifi dongle that works with > Kismet, and is available in a college st. store? I've not had much luck > with the newer gear. Revision B1/C1 dlink G122 work with ralink, so that should support kismet. The larger linksys usb units at factory direct work too. Take a look at http://linux-wless.passys.nl/query_hostif.php?hostif=USB Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 1 16:50:19 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 12:50:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: USB wifi Dongles, Kismet, Toronto In-Reply-To: <46604648.4010105-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46604648.4010105@rogers.com> Message-ID: <210207.60943.qm@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Byron Sonne wrote: > Hey all, > > Could any recommend a make & model of usb wifi > dongle that works with > Kismet, and is available in a college st. store? > I've not had much luck > with the newer gear. > > Cheers, > Byron I don't have a direct comment, but my $0.02 worth. A while back I bought a TRENDnet TEW-424UB USB 802.11g USB dongle for use with my (older) laptop, thinking that it would be great, could use this with laptop, and I could in a pinch use this with a desktop machine. I had checked on-line and the TRENDnet TEW-424UB was lsited as having a native Linux driver. What could go wrong? A few things. First my laptop only supports USB 1.1 and this dongle DEMANDS USB 2.0. Second the dongle I got was version 2, which unlike version 1 does not have a native Linux driver, you can still make this dongle run under Linux with ndiswrapper, but that adds another layer of mess/pain. Thirdly at the time the laptop was running Debian Sarge, which doesn't support 802.11g (explains why my laptop was my first machine to move to Debian Etch (then Debian Testing), just to get decent 802.11g support with an SMC PCMCIA wireless card). The TRENDnet TEW-424UB V2 I gather has been replaced by the TRENDnet TEW-424UB V2.1 (I have no idea how different the two models are, but I would tread with care...) So, make sure the issue is NOT your PC (i.e.: you might be in trouble there). Make sure your Linux Distro. has WIFI support. Then you can start looking into driver issues... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 1 16:55:09 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 12:55:09 -0400 Subject: USB wifi Dongles, Kismet, Toronto In-Reply-To: <4660479B.6000302-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <46604648.4010105@rogers.com> <4660479B.6000302@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <46604F6D.9090603@rogers.com> > Revision B1/C1 dlink G122 work with ralink, so that should support > kismet. The larger linksys usb units at factory direct work too. > Take a look at http://linux-wless.passys.nl/query_hostif.php?hostif=USB Thank you sir! Great link. Cheers, B -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 1 17:21:18 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 13:21:18 -0400 Subject: Free'd GPS? Message-ID: <1180718478.6810.53.camel@localhost> hi, i'm heading off on a long road trip this summer (a couple of weeks) and it looks like we'll be buying a gps unit. i was wondering if anyone out there knows of a gps that runs on some kind of free software, or at least one that interfaces with linux-based computers. I haven't really done much research, and this is a new field to me, so i'm hoping you folks can help me out... thanks, matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 1 20:04:00 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 16:04:00 -0400 Subject: Rogers cable modem speed Message-ID: <20070601200400.GL10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Is anyone else seeing indications that Rogers has boosted the speed of their extreme service from 6 to 8Mbps? I was just surprised to see this: 76% [163 python-twisted-core 722/753kB 0%] 884kB/s 42s It managed to go over 900 a few times too. An 80 MB transfer from ftp.ca.debian.org averaged 859kB/s. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 1 20:11:39 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 16:11:39 -0400 Subject: (Simple?) High availability question Message-ID: <46607D7B.5040104@alteeve.com> Hi all, I am not looking for instructions, just pointers. :) I have two new servers coming in (identical) and I want to have the two of them share the loads of mail/web/pgsql/bind duties. I've got a dedicated firewall that SNAT's them already, and was hoping I could use it to do my load balancing/failover. As I understand it, this is feasible as the firewall (or whatever it's called in this role) keeps an eye on the two servers and while both are up it splits incoming traffic between them. If/when one fails, all traffic gets routed to the good server. So if there are any pointers, specially Debian-based how-tos, I would be very happy! I'll be running either Debian Etch or Ubuntu Feisty (leaning to the former, but worried about Debian-proper's future). Thanks all! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 1 20:25:18 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 16:25:18 -0400 Subject: Rogers cable modem speed In-Reply-To: <20070601200400.GL10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070601200400.GL10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <466080AE.6050009@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Is anyone else seeing indications that Rogers has boosted the speed of > their extreme service from 6 to 8Mbps? I was just surprised to see > this: > > 76% [163 python-twisted-core 722/753kB 0%] 884kB/s 42s > > It managed to go over 900 a few times too. > > An 80 MB transfer from ftp.ca.debian.org averaged 859kB/s. > > According to http://speedcheck.rogers.com/, I'm getting 7.97 Mb/s down and 807 Kb/s up. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 1 20:55:10 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 16:55:10 -0400 Subject: (Simple?) High availability question In-Reply-To: <46607D7B.5040104-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46607D7B.5040104@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20070601205510.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 04:11:39PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > I am not looking for instructions, just pointers. :) > > I have two new servers coming in (identical) and I want to have the > two of them share the loads of mail/web/pgsql/bind duties. I've got a > dedicated firewall that SNAT's them already, and was hoping I could use > it to do my load balancing/failover. > > As I understand it, this is feasible as the firewall (or whatever > it's called in this role) keeps an eye on the two servers and while both > are up it splits incoming traffic between them. If/when one fails, all > traffic gets routed to the good server. > > So if there are any pointers, specially Debian-based how-tos, I would > be very happy! I'll be running either Debian Etch or Ubuntu Feisty > (leaning to the former, but worried about Debian-proper's future). Well running primary/secondary bind is trivial. Running identical web servers is not too hard, although you have to update both whenever you make page changes. Doing round robin connection distribution with a load balancer at the firewall isn't too hard, and there are probably better load balancers that take system load of each web server into account as well as checking that the web server is working and such. Running two mail servers is harder. When a user reads or deletes a message, how do you ensure the update occours on both? Redundant mail reception isn't too hard since you just have one be the main mail server and the other a backup MX which simply holds and forwards mail to the primary when it comes back up (most of the time the primary receives the mail directly). Redundant pgsql is VERY hard. If all you want is static database data then it wouldn't be a big deal and you could treat it like the web server. Of course this is almost never what anyone wants. Last I checked postgresql did not have live replication support, which is basicly what is needed. This is one of those places where oracle and db2 have a reason for existing. I believe mysql has a replicating server backend, although apparently that backend is much slower and has less features than the regular one, so it is a major tradeoff there. People are working on replication support for postgresql, but they have been working on it for years and I don't think it is working yet. It is a very complicated thing to implement. Keeping in sync when two servers are both up and already in sync is no big deal. Getting back in sync if one has been down is very hard, especially while data is still changing on the live server. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 1 21:15:16 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 17:15:16 -0400 Subject: (Simple?) High availability question In-Reply-To: <20070601205510.GM10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <46607D7B.5040104@alteeve.com> <20070601205510.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <46608C64.1080505@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well running primary/secondary bind is trivial. Aye, this was the least of my concerns. :P > Running identical web servers is not too hard, although you have to > update both whenever you make page changes. Doing round robin > connection distribution with a load balancer at the firewall isn't too > hard, and there are probably better load balancers that take system load > of each web server into account as well as checking that the web server > is working and such. Since posting I found this: http://www.howtoforge.com/load_balancing_apache_mod_proxy_balancer I'll be running 2.2, so this should help deal with the apache side of things pretty easily. > Running two mail servers is harder. When a user reads or deletes a > message, how do you ensure the update occours on both? Redundant mail > reception isn't too hard since you just have one be the main mail server > and the other a backup MX which simply holds and forwards mail to the > primary when it comes back up (most of the time the primary receives the > mail directly). The mail reception I wasn't worried about exactly because of the simplicity of using multiple MX records. As you pointed out, it's the directing users to their mailbox and keeping both in sync where the trouble starts. This might be a better candidate for a share FS? > Redundant pgsql is VERY hard. If all you want is static database data > then it wouldn't be a big deal and you could treat it like the web > server. Of course this is almost never what anyone wants. Last I > checked postgresql did not have live replication support, which is > basicly what is needed. This is one of those places where oracle and > db2 have a reason for existing. I believe mysql has a replicating > server backend, although apparently that backend is much slower and has > less features than the regular one, so it is a major tradeoff there. > People are working on replication support for postgresql, but they have > been working on it for years and I don't think it is working yet. It is > a very complicated thing to implement. Keeping in sync when two servers > are both up and already in sync is no big deal. Getting back in sync if > one has been down is very hard, especially while data is still changing > on the live server. Foo. I was under the impression that is exactly what clustering was about. Is there a way to used a distributed file system (like coda) and have two servers talking to the save directory structure? I am going to go out on a limb and guess no. I may have to give up the idea of having load balancing at this time and stick with having the second server keep a mirror of the main server with a heartbeat between the two to have the backup take over on a failure of the main. Seems like a sad waste though with the second server just sitting there. :( The main websites I care most about uptime on use PgSQL and have frequent writes. Have you (or anyone) played with how to handle mirroring the WAL of PostgreSQL? I can run a simple 'rsync' on the backup server say every 5m but that won't help if the master failed after an rsync (very likely) and without an up-to-date copy of the WAL rebuilding the missing bits would be, if I understand it all right, not possible. I could have a script run on the master that dumps the databases very frequently and have the most recent loaded on failure but I'd still lose any changes between the last dump and the failure. I hope I can come up with something more robust. Perhaps I'll have to look into slony more. Thanks!! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 1 21:45:06 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 17:45:06 -0400 Subject: (Simple?) High availability question In-Reply-To: <46608C64.1080505-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46607D7B.5040104@alteeve.com> <20070601205510.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46608C64.1080505@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1180734306.4918.126.camel@stan64.site> I have already gone down this road, and end up with the scary sol'n of about 1.2 M $ of oracle licensing, which when bought at that volume, comes down to about 600-700K$. IBM DB2 looks good, but its only about 30-40% cheaper. This whole cpu/cpu-core/socket licensing is also a nightmare. i think pgcluster (or is it pgpool) 2.0 is out now, and for a small task on a simple system set up with a good chance to test and burn in, might give you what you want. I expect will see good stuff in 12-18 months. If you use java DB connectors there is also a few propri projects out there that are reasonably priced. For me , I have gone with a Oracle RAC and mutli site redundancy with a Netapp dual head 8GB fibre redundant SAN behind the scenes, which gives a pretty good sol'n, well ..... i'll say for sure once I have built it! for north of a M$ it hopefully will. -tl On Fri, 2007-06-01 at 17:15 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Well running primary/secondary bind is trivial. > > Aye, this was the least of my concerns. :P > > > Running identical web servers is not too hard, although you have to > > update both whenever you make page changes. Doing round robin > > connection distribution with a load balancer at the firewall isn't too > > hard, and there are probably better load balancers that take system load > > of each web server into account as well as checking that the web server > > is working and such. > > Since posting I found this: > http://www.howtoforge.com/load_balancing_apache_mod_proxy_balancer > > I'll be running 2.2, so this should help deal with the apache side of > things pretty easily. > > > Running two mail servers is harder. When a user reads or deletes a > > message, how do you ensure the update occours on both? Redundant mail > > reception isn't too hard since you just have one be the main mail server > > and the other a backup MX which simply holds and forwards mail to the > > primary when it comes back up (most of the time the primary receives the > > mail directly). > > The mail reception I wasn't worried about exactly because of the > simplicity of using multiple MX records. As you pointed out, it's the > directing users to their mailbox and keeping both in sync where the > trouble starts. This might be a better candidate for a share FS? > > > Redundant pgsql is VERY hard. If all you want is static database data > > then it wouldn't be a big deal and you could treat it like the web > > server. Of course this is almost never what anyone wants. Last I > > checked postgresql did not have live replication support, which is > > basicly what is needed. This is one of those places where oracle and > > db2 have a reason for existing. I believe mysql has a replicating > > server backend, although apparently that backend is much slower and has > > less features than the regular one, so it is a major tradeoff there. > > People are working on replication support for postgresql, but they have > > been working on it for years and I don't think it is working yet. It is > > a very complicated thing to implement. Keeping in sync when two servers > > are both up and already in sync is no big deal. Getting back in sync if > > one has been down is very hard, especially while data is still changing > > on the live server. > > Foo. I was under the impression that is exactly what clustering was > about. Is there a way to used a distributed file system (like coda) and > have two servers talking to the save directory structure? I am going to > go out on a limb and guess no. > > I may have to give up the idea of having load balancing at this time and > stick with having the second server keep a mirror of the main server > with a heartbeat between the two to have the backup take over on a > failure of the main. Seems like a sad waste though with the second > server just sitting there. :( > > The main websites I care most about uptime on use PgSQL and have > frequent writes. Have you (or anyone) played with how to handle > mirroring the WAL of PostgreSQL? I can run a simple 'rsync' on the > backup server say every 5m but that won't help if the master failed > after an rsync (very likely) and without an up-to-date copy of the WAL > rebuilding the missing bits would be, if I understand it all right, not > possible. I could have a script run on the master that dumps the > databases very frequently and have the most recent loaded on failure but > I'd still lose any changes between the last dump and the failure. > > I hope I can come up with something more robust. Perhaps I'll have to > look into slony more. > > Thanks!! > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 1 21:45:32 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 17:45:32 -0400 Subject: (Simple?) High availability question In-Reply-To: <1180734306.4918.126.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <46607D7B.5040104@alteeve.com> <20070601205510.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46608C64.1080505@alteeve.com> <1180734306.4918.126.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <4660937C.7080700@alteeve.com> tleslie wrote: > I have already gone down this road, > and end up with the scary sol'n > of about 1.2 M $ of oracle licensing, > which when bought at that volume, > comes down to about 600-700K$. > > IBM DB2 looks good, but its only about 30-40% cheaper. > > This whole cpu/cpu-core/socket licensing is also a nightmare. > > i think pgcluster (or is it pgpool) 2.0 is out now, > and for a small task on a simple system set up with a > good chance to test and burn in, might give you what you want. > > I expect will see good stuff in 12-18 months. > > If you use java DB connectors there is also a few propri > projects out there that are reasonably priced. > > For me , I have gone with a Oracle RAC and > mutli site redundancy with a Netapp dual head > 8GB fibre redundant SAN behind the scenes, > which gives a pretty good sol'n, > well ..... i'll say for sure once I have > built it! for north of a M$ it hopefully will. > > -tl Um, wow. That's quite a bit more hardcore than what I need. :) I've got a very small/non-existent budget so fancy hardware and proprietary licenses is just not an option. I've got to do what I can with basic networking gear and a couple new IBM x-series servers, an older (but nice) proliant and a couple white-boxes for misc. tasks. Thankfully, the sites we host are pretty straight forward. The most fancy are ones with perl/cgi scripts with a very limited number of php/mysql apps only. No fancy 'web 2.0'/java stuff. Madi; who is starting to realize she's got herself into a doozie of a task! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 1 21:50:18 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 17:50:18 -0400 Subject: (Simple?) High availability question In-Reply-To: <20070601205510.GM10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <46607D7B.5040104@alteeve.com> <20070601205510.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420706011450s1b89a5e0od834fadd933e1bc@mail.gmail.com> On 6/1/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I believe mysql has a replicating > server backend, although apparently that backend is much slower and has > less features than the regular one, so it is a major tradeoff there. I used to work for a place that relied on MySQL for the majority of its database needs. I believe the MySQL dbs were all replicating in multi-master mode. It was apparently adequate for their needs, but I don't know what happens if/when one of the db machines fails. I've heard that multi-master database replication is a thorny problem from a theoretical perspective (I think it was Seneca and Christopher Browne I overheard at a LUG meeting). I also remember that the tech support guru occasionally had to issue strange commands to get things unwedged that included a memorized magic byte offset into MySQL's binary logs. On the other hand, this company had 24x7 uptime obligations to its customers and unscheduled downtime had direct consequences on their bottom line, so the replication must have been doing something worthwhile. I prefer PostgreSQL for my own database needs, but I think it's because I was exposed to PostgreSQL before MySQL, and, at the time, MySQL's position on ACID was reprehensible. I hear that MySQL 5 is much better ACID-wise, and it's had replication for a long time. It might be worth looking into. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 1 22:10:39 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 18:10:39 -0400 Subject: (Simple?) High availability question In-Reply-To: <4660937C.7080700-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46607D7B.5040104@alteeve.com> <20070601205510.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46608C64.1080505@alteeve.com> <1180734306.4918.126.camel@stan64.site> <4660937C.7080700@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1180735839.4918.144.camel@stan64.site> Sometimes it might be possible for a customer to be ok with manual intervention for fail over. Also perhaps for a support fee charge. It becomes more complicated when you have things like "you want to take a holiday" and who is going to fill in for that support. At low budgets, manual restore, and down times of 1/2 hour (should something happen) have to be expected. We currently run on a MS sql server platform, and thats exactly what we get, a few hours of down time a year. (and we run CAA/pizzahut/roger-home-shopping-channel/DirectEnergy/and other clients). With oracle/linux/HP/netapp, we are trying for ninty-nine nines of uptime (ok thats wishfull thinking). I guess what I am saying is , don't rule out a human-manual fail over system. Some times in the grand scheme of things, its can be very cost effective, all be it makes taking holidays difficult :( -tl On Fri, 2007-06-01 at 17:45 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > tleslie wrote: > > I have already gone down this road, > > and end up with the scary sol'n > > of about 1.2 M $ of oracle licensing, > > which when bought at that volume, > > comes down to about 600-700K$. > > > > IBM DB2 looks good, but its only about 30-40% cheaper. > > > > This whole cpu/cpu-core/socket licensing is also a nightmare. > > > > i think pgcluster (or is it pgpool) 2.0 is out now, > > and for a small task on a simple system set up with a > > good chance to test and burn in, might give you what you want. > > > > I expect will see good stuff in 12-18 months. > > > > If you use java DB connectors there is also a few propri > > projects out there that are reasonably priced. > > > > For me , I have gone with a Oracle RAC and > > mutli site redundancy with a Netapp dual head > > 8GB fibre redundant SAN behind the scenes, > > which gives a pretty good sol'n, > > well ..... i'll say for sure once I have > > built it! for north of a M$ it hopefully will. > > > > -tl > > Um, wow. > > That's quite a bit more hardcore than what I need. :) I've got a very > small/non-existent budget so fancy hardware and proprietary licenses is > just not an option. I've got to do what I can with basic networking gear > and a couple new IBM x-series servers, an older (but nice) proliant and > a couple white-boxes for misc. tasks. > > Thankfully, the sites we host are pretty straight forward. The most > fancy are ones with perl/cgi scripts with a very limited number of > php/mysql apps only. No fancy 'web 2.0'/java stuff. > > Madi; who is starting to realize she's got herself into a doozie of a task! > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 1 21:59:35 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 17:59:35 -0400 Subject: (Simple?) High availability question In-Reply-To: <7ac602420706011450s1b89a5e0od834fadd933e1bc-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <46607D7B.5040104@alteeve.com> <20070601205510.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420706011450s1b89a5e0od834fadd933e1bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <466096C7.3050401@alteeve.com> Ian Petersen wrote: > On 6/1/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> I believe mysql has a replicating >> server backend, although apparently that backend is much slower and has >> less features than the regular one, so it is a major tradeoff there. > > I used to work for a place that relied on MySQL for the majority of > its database needs. I believe the MySQL dbs were all replicating in > multi-master mode. It was apparently adequate for their needs, but I > don't know what happens if/when one of the db machines fails. I've > heard that multi-master database replication is a thorny problem from > a theoretical perspective (I think it was Seneca and Christopher > Browne I overheard at a LUG meeting). I also remember that the tech > support guru occasionally had to issue strange commands to get things > unwedged that included a memorized magic byte offset into MySQL's > binary logs. On the other hand, this company had 24x7 uptime > obligations to its customers and unscheduled downtime had direct > consequences on their bottom line, so the replication must have been > doing something worthwhile. > > I prefer PostgreSQL for my own database needs, but I think it's > because I was exposed to PostgreSQL before MySQL, and, at the time, > MySQL's position on ACID was reprehensible. I hear that MySQL 5 is > much better ACID-wise, and it's had replication for a long time. It > might be worth looking into. > > Ian Well, I use roundcube webmail with MySQL holding it's data (couldn't get it working on PgSQL). Otherwise I wouldn't have to worry about MySQL at all. In this case though, I do, so thank you for the info. I hadn't asked about MySQL yet because I was trying to keep my poor noggin' focused on as few crazy things as possible. In our case though, switching to MySQL is both not appealing and not practical. It's nice to know it'll work for the few instances we need it though! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 2 01:15:33 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 21:15:33 -0400 Subject: (Simple?) High availability question In-Reply-To: <466096C7.3050401-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46607D7B.5040104@alteeve.com> <20070601205510.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420706011450s1b89a5e0od834fadd933e1bc@mail.gmail.com> <466096C7.3050401@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <006601c7a4b3$85b177d0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> There are many types of HA solutions. 1. Load balancing: This assumes that there is little or no data to synchronize and basically the client connections are load balanced between two or more hosts. Eg: DNSRR, OpenBSD pf, Cisco and WLBS. Typically this is used to load balance web servers, dns servers and firewalls. 2. Shared Nothing: This consists of two or more physical servers connected back to shared LUN on scsi bus, FC SAN or iSCSI. In the Windows and UNIX worlds this is what "clustering" refers to MOST of the time. You can do the same thing on Linux/FreeBSD using scripts. This is typically how MOST database servers are clustered. 3. Application Clusters: Application specific replication technology that replicates data and manages client connectivity. Eg: Active Directory, Oracle RAC, SQL Server. It can be replicated in an opensource environment with rsync and DNS 4. Distributed systems: many systems working together distributing processing among them eg: Beowulf, PVMs, Windows Compute Cluster. To solve your problem for high availability you should ideally use a shared nothing cluster for the database and DNS RR or IP Load Balancing for the web servers. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Madison > Kelly > Sent: June 1, 2007 6:00 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: (Simple?) High availability question > > Ian Petersen wrote: > > On 6/1/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> I believe mysql has a replicating > >> server backend, although apparently that backend is much slower and has > >> less features than the regular one, so it is a major tradeoff there. > > > > I used to work for a place that relied on MySQL for the majority of > > its database needs. I believe the MySQL dbs were all replicating in > > multi-master mode. It was apparently adequate for their needs, but I > > don't know what happens if/when one of the db machines fails. I've > > heard that multi-master database replication is a thorny problem from > > a theoretical perspective (I think it was Seneca and Christopher > > Browne I overheard at a LUG meeting). I also remember that the tech > > support guru occasionally had to issue strange commands to get things > > unwedged that included a memorized magic byte offset into MySQL's > > binary logs. On the other hand, this company had 24x7 uptime > > obligations to its customers and unscheduled downtime had direct > > consequences on their bottom line, so the replication must have been > > doing something worthwhile. > > > > I prefer PostgreSQL for my own database needs, but I think it's > > because I was exposed to PostgreSQL before MySQL, and, at the time, > > MySQL's position on ACID was reprehensible. I hear that MySQL 5 is > > much better ACID-wise, and it's had replication for a long time. It > > might be worth looking into. > > > > Ian > > Well, I use roundcube webmail with MySQL holding it's data (couldn't get > it working on PgSQL). Otherwise I wouldn't have to worry about MySQL at > all. In this case though, I do, so thank you for the info. I hadn't > asked about MySQL yet because I was trying to keep my poor noggin' > focused on as few crazy things as possible. In our case though, > switching to MySQL is both not appealing and not practical. It's nice to > know it'll work for the few instances we need it though! > > Madi > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 2 02:31:04 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 22:31:04 -0400 Subject: (Simple?) High availability question In-Reply-To: <006601c7a4b3$85b177d0$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <46607D7B.5040104@alteeve.com> <20070601205510.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420706011450s1b89a5e0od834fadd933e1bc@mail.gmail.com> <466096C7.3050401@alteeve.com> <006601c7a4b3$85b177d0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <1180751464.18444.24.camel@stan64.site> On Fri, 2007-06-01 at 21:15 -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > There are many types of HA solutions. > 1. Load balancing: This assumes that there is little or no data to > synchronize and basically the client connections are load balanced between > two or more hosts. Eg: DNSRR, OpenBSD pf, Cisco and WLBS. Typically this is > used to load balance web servers, dns servers and firewalls. > > 2. Shared Nothing: This consists of two or more physical servers connected > back to shared LUN on scsi bus, FC SAN or iSCSI. In the Windows and UNIX > worlds this is what "clustering" refers to MOST of the time. You can do the > same thing on Linux/FreeBSD using scripts. This is typically how MOST > database servers are clustered. I disagree, i thought shared nothing means they "share nothing", and have separate file systems. Thats what i got out of a white paper from IBM on DB2 versus Oracle. Now if you have a shared SAN and it a net app that has redundant heads and storage and fail over, you have two or more application servers fronting a truely redundant "filer". This is the way i went, all though the DB2 sol'n sure looks good. But we needed the Netapp dual-head SAN for other stuff, so it made the Oracle cluster system (single shared disk array) viable, as with the Netapp (3040), is truely a redundant SAN. We actually had to by netapp oracle aware cluster software, so the netapp is taking the snapshoots that are accurate of the DB. -tl > > 3. Application Clusters: Application specific replication technology that > replicates data and manages client connectivity. Eg: Active Directory, > Oracle RAC, SQL Server. It can be replicated in an opensource environment > with rsync and DNS > > 4. Distributed systems: many systems working together distributing > processing among them eg: Beowulf, PVMs, Windows Compute Cluster. > > To solve your problem for high availability you should ideally use a shared > nothing cluster for the database and DNS RR or IP Load Balancing for the web > servers. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Madison > > Kelly > > Sent: June 1, 2007 6:00 PM > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: (Simple?) High availability question > > > > Ian Petersen wrote: > > > On 6/1/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > >> I believe mysql has a replicating > > >> server backend, although apparently that backend is much slower and has > > >> less features than the regular one, so it is a major tradeoff there. > > > > > > I used to work for a place that relied on MySQL for the majority of > > > its database needs. I believe the MySQL dbs were all replicating in > > > multi-master mode. It was apparently adequate for their needs, but I > > > don't know what happens if/when one of the db machines fails. I've > > > heard that multi-master database replication is a thorny problem from > > > a theoretical perspective (I think it was Seneca and Christopher > > > Browne I overheard at a LUG meeting). I also remember that the tech > > > support guru occasionally had to issue strange commands to get things > > > unwedged that included a memorized magic byte offset into MySQL's > > > binary logs. On the other hand, this company had 24x7 uptime > > > obligations to its customers and unscheduled downtime had direct > > > consequences on their bottom line, so the replication must have been > > > doing something worthwhile. > > > > > > I prefer PostgreSQL for my own database needs, but I think it's > > > because I was exposed to PostgreSQL before MySQL, and, at the time, > > > MySQL's position on ACID was reprehensible. I hear that MySQL 5 is > > > much better ACID-wise, and it's had replication for a long time. It > > > might be worth looking into. > > > > > > Ian > > > > Well, I use roundcube webmail with MySQL holding it's data (couldn't get > > it working on PgSQL). Otherwise I wouldn't have to worry about MySQL at > > all. In this case though, I do, so thank you for the info. I hadn't > > asked about MySQL yet because I was trying to keep my poor noggin' > > focused on as few crazy things as possible. In our case though, > > switching to MySQL is both not appealing and not practical. It's nice to > > know it'll work for the few instances we need it though! > > > > Madi > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 2 03:06:15 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 23:06:15 -0400 Subject: Help with Etch Message-ID: <4660DEA7.9040203@pppoe.ca> Hi I upgraded from Sarge to Etch with "apt-get dist-upgrade". When booting, the font of the messages are as usual, then they become very small. I'd like the boot messages to one font and size. I've been looking at the Debian Reference and /etc/init.d/console-screen.sh. Where should I be looking and how do I configure the font and size? Thanks. Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 2 02:48:29 2007 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Terry Tanski) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 22:48:29 -0400 Subject: (Simple?) High availability question In-Reply-To: <46607D7B.5040104-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46607D7B.5040104@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4660DA7D.5090309@cogeco.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > > I am not looking for instructions, just pointers. :) > > I have two new servers coming in (identical) and I want to have the > two of them share the loads of mail/web/pgsql/bind duties. I've got a > dedicated firewall that SNAT's them already, and was hoping I could use > it to do my load balancing/failover. > > As I understand it, this is feasible as the firewall (or whatever > it's called in this role) keeps an eye on the two servers and while both > are up it splits incoming traffic between them. If/when one fails, all > traffic gets routed to the good server. > > So if there are any pointers, specially Debian-based how-tos, I would > be very happy! I'll be running either Debian Etch or Ubuntu Feisty > (leaning to the former, but worried about Debian-proper's future). Have a look at Pen (http://siag.nu/pen/) Terry -- Terry Tanski, BSc RHCE Email: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 2 03:53:16 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 23:53:16 -0400 Subject: (Simple?) High availability question In-Reply-To: <1180734306.4918.126.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <46607D7B.5040104@alteeve.com> <20070601205510.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46608C64.1080505@alteeve.com> <1180734306.4918.126.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <22e435080706012053g4b68aa39q3af683338212cf48@mail.gmail.com> On 6/1/07, tleslie wrote: > For me , I have gone with a Oracle RAC and > mutli site redundancy with a Netapp dual head > 8GB fibre redundant SAN behind the scenes, It is 4GB isn't it? Most of my san stuff now is 2 or 4 and I guess soon 10. SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 2 05:07:28 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 01:07:28 -0400 Subject: (Simple?) High availability question In-Reply-To: <22e435080706012053g4b68aa39q3af683338212cf48-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <46607D7B.5040104@alteeve.com> <20070601205510.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46608C64.1080505@alteeve.com> <1180734306.4918.126.camel@stan64.site> <22e435080706012053g4b68aa39q3af683338212cf48@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1180760848.18444.74.camel@stan64.site> it supports 10 when it comes out, for now its dual path 4GB, you can't get sustained from one lun at 8gb but you can get 8gb if you are grabbing from each head at 4gb each. They told me that, we take delivery in a few weeks, i hope they aren't lying! -tl On Fri, 2007-06-01 at 23:53 -0400, Sheldon Mustard wrote: > On 6/1/07, tleslie wrote: > > For me , I have gone with a Oracle RAC and > > mutli site redundancy with a Netapp dual head > > 8GB fibre redundant SAN behind the scenes, > > It is 4GB isn't it? > > Most of my san stuff now is 2 or 4 and I guess soon 10. > > SJM > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 2 03:02:29 2007 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 23:02:29 -0400 Subject: screensaver software In-Reply-To: <465C7E61.3050405-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <465C5A8E.4040101@totaltravelmarketing.com> <465C68AC.7050309@ve3syb.ca> <465C7E61.3050405@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <20070601230229.8522af58.hgibson@eol.ca> On Tue, 29 May 2007 15:26:25 -0400 Jose wrote: > I was unaware of that package, I would try it tonight, thanks Kevin > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Jose, Look up xlockmore. This is the old UNIX screensaver. Definitely, it runs with FVWM. I do not know about the newer window managers. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 2 04:04:48 2007 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 00:04:48 -0400 Subject: [OT]: The Keys to Slashdot In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0705311454v71cb1680vf96aa77a2f03be3f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070602000448.9b89d4bf.hgibson@eol.ca> On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 01:41:57 +0000 "Christopher Browne" wrote: > On 5/31/07, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > While the points I made were (IMO) valid, is the "key to success" on > > Slashdot posting ASAP after an article becomes available? > > Yup, that's pretty much the "key to karma." It fits with the way > journalism works; the *first* one to get to the Big Story gets the > fame and fortune. > > Late commentary turns into a big "also ran" situation; no /. "karma" > to be had there... If you are reading the four hundred and sixty first message on the subject, either you are intensely interested in the subject, or you seriously need a life, or a job, or something. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 2 11:52:23 2007 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 07:52:23 -0400 Subject: Free'd GPS? In-Reply-To: <1180718478.6810.53.camel@localhost>; from matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org on Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 13:21:18 -0400 References: <1180718478.6810.53.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20070602115223.GB1973@localhost> On Fri Jun 01,2007 01:21:18 PM Matt Price wrote: > i was wondering if anyone out there knows of a gps that runs on some > kind of free software, or at least one that interfaces with > linux-based > computers. What do you want to do with the GPS unit? Since you mentioned a long road trip, I'll assume that you want some kind of moving map and navigation capability. You can go somewhere between two approaches: 1. A fully integrated proprietary standalone unit. 2. A GPS receiver that just sends positional information to a computer system (e.g. laptop or palm sized). The computer holds the maps and displays the position and other information. The GPS receiver could be connected to the computer via serial or USB. It could also be pluged directly into the computer as a compact flash or PCMCIA card. Also, the GPS unit could send via Bluetooth. I don't know of any integrated units that run free software. There's a rumor that Garmin units run Linux under the covers, but it's just a rumor. Most GPS devices with a serial or USB interface with send capability can be interfaced to Linux. The serial protocol is normally NMEA, which is a standard. Garmin uses a proprietary USB protocol but there is a Linux interface to this. There is some moving map software for Linux available. I used to use a program called GpsDrive with my laptop and old Magellan handheld (non-mapping) unit There hasn't been any development of it recently but it works quite well. It can download maps from Expedia. I came across the development of a Java application called Gpsylon, intended to work similar to GpsDrive. I haven't tried it. Don't expect any free software to be able to do the automatic and dynamic route calculations that commercial hardware and software can do. You may be able to plug in a pre-planned route and have the program guide you. There are also projects out there to create free maps for commercial GPS devices. There seems to quite a bit of effort to support Garmin units for this. For example: However, free maps with embedded auto routing information are quite rare. I currently have a Garmin Venture Cx handheld unit that can do road navigation. I have to use their software under Windows to load their maps into it. I could use the unit with GpsDrive but since it has its own colour display, I don't bother. I do interface it to Linux to save waypoints a routes, and have played with some of the free maps mentioned above. Search for "gps" on FreshMeat to get you started with available free software -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 2 12:45:28 2007 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 08:45:28 -0400 Subject: Rogers cable modem speed In-Reply-To: <466080AE.6050009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070601200400.GL10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <466080AE.6050009@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b20706020545o4f0c4eb2j41c8c10ca9ee536e@mail.gmail.com> I hadn't seen the Rogers speed test before! You'd think you'd get the best results from that, assuming it's somehow closer than any other speed test server. However: Rogers: 6.5Mbps/803kbps Speedtest.net 7366kbps/804kbps I'm a Rogers Extreme customer. Weird, eh? And the Speedtest interface is about 862 times better-looking. :-) I was just remembering, as I wrote those numbers, how my first dial-up modem was 2400bps. We've come quite a ways... unlike with increases in processing power, bandwidth has dramatically altered what we do with our computers! Cheers, Aaron. On 6/1/07, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Is anyone else seeing indications that Rogers has boosted the speed of > > their extreme service from 6 to 8Mbps? I was just surprised to see > > this: > > > > 76% [163 python-twisted-core 722/753kB 0%] 884kB/s 42s > > > > It managed to go over 900 a few times too. > > > > An 80 MB transfer from ftp.ca.debian.org averaged 859kB/s. > > > > > > According to http://speedcheck.rogers.com/, I'm getting 7.97 Mb/s down > and 807 Kb/s up. > > -- > Use OpenOffice.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 2 13:36:20 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 09:36:20 -0400 Subject: [OT] Something about that Greenwich meridian Message-ID: <46613A14.2425.39399E@sciguy.vex.net> Yesterday (Friday) evening I call Sympatico to cancel my internet service (they never seem to be around when I call them; at Bell World at Square One Mall, I was told to phone 310-SURF to cancel my service rather than bother them_, and I was told by their tech support (the only ones who picked up the phone at that number) that the business office was closed, and to call back "tomorrow". I observed that "tomorrow" is Saturday. "Are they really open on Saturday?" I asked politely. Some confusion ensured for a few seconds, then "Oh, yeah, you have to call on Monday". I don't think this was absent-mindedness. This was more like: she checks her calendar, then she checks the Sympatico office hours, then oh, yeah: they're closed on Saturday. My impression is that she made a rushed remark so she can reach her call quota (otherwise these call centres get rid of them), then she has to spend extra time to correct her error. If that was a real Bell employee (someone on Bell's payroll working in Canada), that kind of gaffe would be unheard-of (granted, they bungle up other things, but they NEVER make mistakes regarding the times they are off work). The kind of money Bell seems to be saving by outsourcing their call centre to overseas is less of the "more bang for the buck" variety, and more of the "pay peanuts to hire monkeys" variety. And the "Canadian call centre", in the embodiment of "Emily" the Bell Telephone Fairy, seems to work for no peanuts at all -- electrons, maybe :-) It struck me how all this amounts to contempt for the customer. It all gives the impression that we who pay the astronomical bills for the internet and phone service are not really their first priority. For my part, it gives me a feeling of being left out in the cold. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bchaffin72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 2 17:13:55 2007 From: bchaffin72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Brice Chaffin) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 13:13:55 -0400 Subject: [OT] Something about that Greenwich meridian In-Reply-To: <46613A14.2425.39399E-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <46613A14.2425.39399E@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <4661A553.2080301@rogers.com> Paul King wrote: > Yesterday (Friday) evening I call Sympatico to cancel my internet service (they > never seem to be around when I call them; at Bell World at Square One Mall, I > was told to phone 310-SURF to cancel my service rather than bother them_, and I > was told by their tech support (the only ones who picked up the phone at that > number) that the business office was closed, and to call back "tomorrow". I > observed that "tomorrow" is Saturday. "Are they really open on Saturday?" I > asked politely. Some confusion ensured for a few seconds, then "Oh, yeah, you > have to call on Monday". > > I don't think this was absent-mindedness. This was more like: she checks her > calendar, then she checks the Sympatico office hours, then oh, yeah: they're > closed on Saturday. My impression is that she made a rushed remark so she can > reach her call quota (otherwise these call centres get rid of them), then she > has to spend extra time to correct her error. > > If that was a real Bell employee (someone on Bell's payroll working in Canada), > that kind of gaffe would be unheard-of (granted, they bungle up other things, > but they NEVER make mistakes regarding the times they are off work). The kind > of money Bell seems to be saving by outsourcing their call centre to overseas > is less of the "more bang for the buck" variety, and more of the "pay peanuts > to hire monkeys" variety. And the "Canadian call centre", in the embodiment of > "Emily" the Bell Telephone Fairy, seems to work for no peanuts at all -- > electrons, maybe :-) > > It struck me how all this amounts to contempt for the customer. It all gives > the impression that we who pay the astronomical bills for the internet and > phone service are not really their first priority. For my part, it gives me a > feeling of being left out in the cold. > > Paul King > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > Reminds me the reasons we no longer use Sympatico or Bell. They never got anything right, and I remember my wife having a few choice descriptions of Emily.:) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 2 15:58:41 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 15:58:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Aren't there any young Linux lady characters in South Park ? Message-ID: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id_kGL3M5Cg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 2 19:26:05 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 15:26:05 -0400 Subject: [OT] Something about that Greenwich meridian In-Reply-To: <4661A553.2080301-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46613A14.2425.39399E@sciguy.vex.net> <4661A553.2080301@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990706021226q766f7620l804420fde5ddbbc6@mail.gmail.com> On 6/2/07, Brice Chaffin wrote: > Reminds me the reasons we no longer use Sympatico or Bell. They never > got anything right, and I remember my wife having a few choice > descriptions of Emily.:) Emily is awesome! I love voice-recognition systems. I can verbally abuse them and be completely guilt-free! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 2 19:48:39 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 15:48:39 -0400 Subject: Rogers cable modem speed In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20706020545o4f0c4eb2j41c8c10ca9ee536e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070601200400.GL10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <466080AE.6050009@rogers.com> <4386c5b20706020545o4f0c4eb2j41c8c10ca9ee536e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4661C997.4080507@rogers.com> Aaron Vegh wrote: > I hadn't seen the Rogers speed test before! You'd think you'd get the > best results from that, assuming it's somehow closer than any other > speed test server. However: > > Rogers: 6.5Mbps/803kbps > Speedtest.net 7366kbps/804kbps > > I'm a Rogers Extreme customer. > The results will often depend on the time of day. For example, if you try just after the kidlets get home from school, you won't do as well as in the middle of the night. However, as my results show, I'm getting about the limit. > Weird, eh? And the Speedtest interface is about 862 times > better-looking. :-) > > I was just remembering, as I wrote those numbers, how my first dial-up > modem was 2400bps. We've come quite a ways... unlike with increases in > processing power, bandwidth has dramatically altered what we do with > our computers! > > Cheers, > Aaron. > > On 6/1/07, James Knott wrote: >> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> > Is anyone else seeing indications that Rogers has boosted the speed of >> > their extreme service from 6 to 8Mbps? I was just surprised to see >> > this: >> > >> > 76% [163 python-twisted-core 722/753kB 0%] >> 884kB/s 42s >> > >> > It managed to go over 900 a few times too. >> > >> > An 80 MB transfer from ftp.ca.debian.org averaged 859kB/s. >> > >> > >> >> According to http://speedcheck.rogers.com/, I'm getting 7.97 Mb/s down >> and 807 Kb/s up. >> >> -- >> Use OpenOffice.org >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bchaffin72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 3 00:44:06 2007 From: bchaffin72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Brice Chaffin) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 20:44:06 -0400 Subject: [OT] Something about that Greenwich meridian In-Reply-To: <1e55af990706021226q766f7620l804420fde5ddbbc6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <46613A14.2425.39399E@sciguy.vex.net> <4661A553.2080301@rogers.com> <1e55af990706021226q766f7620l804420fde5ddbbc6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46620ED6.7060703@rogers.com> Sy Ali wrote: > Emily is awesome! I love voice-recognition systems. I can verbally > abuse them and be completely guilt-free! > -- > Well, I guess she serves a purpose after all.:) > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 3 01:51:55 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 21:51:55 -0400 Subject: [OT] Something about that Greenwich meridian In-Reply-To: <1e55af990706021226q766f7620l804420fde5ddbbc6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4661A553.2080301@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4661E67B.28107.15CE678@sciguy.vex.net> > On 6/2/07, Brice Chaffin wrote: > > Reminds me the reasons we no longer use Sympatico or Bell. They never > > got anything right, and I remember my wife having a few choice > > descriptions of Emily.:) > > > Emily is awesome! I love voice-recognition systems. I can verbally > abuse them and be completely guilt-free! You also gotta love that theme flourish at the start, just before she announces herself. I had an idea for the start of a sketch: E = Emily C = Caller (male) E: Tell me what you are you calling about? C: (pants) Oooh, Emily ... I want to make love to you like a wild animal!! E: I'm sorry I don't understand you. Could you please describe in more detail? ... and on it goes. I had an idea for a dialogue, but to make this work, I would have to call Emily and find out in some detail what her standard questions and responses are, and be verbally harassing and see how she deals with it, avoiding cuss words or anything that might flag me. I just can't be bothered. Just thinking about Emily is an annoyance. Others can feel free to continue the dialogue. It'll be a Creative Commons thing :-) Regards Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 3 04:07:16 2007 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David C. Chipman) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 00:07:16 -0400 Subject: [OT] Something about that Greenwich meridian In-Reply-To: <1e55af990706021226q766f7620l804420fde5ddbbc6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <46613A14.2425.39399E@sciguy.vex.net> <4661A553.2080301@rogers.com> <1e55af990706021226q766f7620l804420fde5ddbbc6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070603000716.2c01061f@david.chipman> Hi Sy, > > Emily is awesome! I love voice-recognition systems. I can verbally > abuse them and be completely guilt-free! LOL! Thanks for the idea! I didn't think of that one before! Though, seriously, I wish they worked better. And frankly, if I have an "odd" issue, I'd much rather talk to a live human-"bean" instead, anyhow. Later, -David Chipman -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 3 13:38:24 2007 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2007 09:38:24 -0400 Subject: MythTV and alternate channels and commercial skip Message-ID: <20070603133824.0E948854F7@sarg.ryerson.ca> I have MythTV working quite well on a couple Linux systems and a couple Macs in the apartment, but I have 2 problems: 1) Our building has a camera on the entry lobby so we can observe pizza delivery people trying to get buzzed in. It shows up on channel 70. Unfortunately, DataDirect says that APTN comes in on channel 70, so when I want to record, say Canadian Geographic specials, I instead get 2 hours of boring pictures of the entry. APTN instead is on some other channel, say 85. Does anybody have any idea how to (a) add a manual channel to be the lobby-cam (I can probably figure this out and it isn't really a big priority), or more importantly (b) how to get APTN to be associated with the correct physical channel (particularly so it doesn't get reset by the nightly database update). 2) Commercial skip used to work pretty reliably on the base station. On the Macs initially it didn't, so each show we'd set the option. Then I went into the database and set the appropriate flag (the Macs didn't have mythtvsetup, etc., just the player) and all was good. I got a new Mac, updated the database, and it show up as skipping, but it doesn't (this was a new download - Intel). Furthermore, the base station doesn't seem to be skipping commercials anymore either. I can't think of anything else that's changed (like MythTV versions), particularly on the base. Any suggestions welcome (except resetting the database - we have about 300 GB of kids shows that we can't risk losing!). ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 3 16:55:17 2007 From: interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Interlug Lists) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 12:55:17 -0400 Subject: Free'd GPS? In-Reply-To: <1180718478.6810.53.camel@localhost> References: <1180718478.6810.53.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <408ae1640706030955p16963bbby940d28ec08620454@mail.gmail.com> On 6/1/07, Matt Price wrote: > hi, > > i'm heading off on a long road trip this summer (a couple of weeks) and > it looks like we'll be buying a gps unit. i was wondering if anyone out > there knows of a gps that runs on some kind of free software, or at > least one that interfaces with linux-based computers. I haven't really > done much research, and this is a new field to me, so i'm hoping you > folks can help me out... > > thanks, > matt Hi Matt, Hope you have a great trip. Your choice of GPS unit will largely depend on what you want from it as far as "free software" compatibility. I'm guessing you want a dash-mount or handheld device with a moving map display and navigation on the order of "tell me when to turn". OpenStreetMap is a free software project that has looked at GPS unit compatibility. Have a look at their reviews of GPS devices here. These are favoured because they can be used to collect data for the OpenStreetMap project. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/GPS_Reviews They also point out a few units that go the "other way" and allow the user to include OpenStreetMap data in the map used in the handheld unit. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Garmin openTom is a project to play with the Linux-based versions of the TomTom GPS system. http://www.opentom.org/Main_Page For your laptop, Scott already mentioned GPSDrive. Other moving map GPS software in various states of readiness are : http://navit.sourceforge.net/ http://roadmap.digitalomaha.net/ http://roadsterproject.wordpress.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 4 01:47:21 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 21:47:21 -0400 Subject: [OT] Something about that Greenwich meridian In-Reply-To: <20070603000716.2c01061f-lQMCrfjKGrJ3Ex1Y5TzZUg@public.gmane.org> References: <46613A14.2425.39399E@sciguy.vex.net> <4661A553.2080301@rogers.com> <1e55af990706021226q766f7620l804420fde5ddbbc6@mail.gmail.com> <20070603000716.2c01061f@david.chipman> Message-ID: <1e55af990706031847m184e8a94taae2edabba502b60@mail.gmail.com> This Emily stuff has me thinking.. Has anyone played the old Hero's Quest games? The early ones where you could type in all your actions were awesome. I remember finding the right people to talk to where the responses were quite funny if you cussed. I even vaguely remember drinking a beer in a bar, and then for the heck of it trying "pee in cup".. and having it work. It's too bad I couldn't reproduce it later though. =( ... I also wonder what would happen if Google made an "Emily".. Google: (chime) Hello, and welcome to google Me: Dammit, not another one of these... Google: It sounds like you're trying to find porn Me: Uh, well.. uh.. Google: Would you like to visit porn.com? Me: Hey, no wait.. I'm trying to work here.. Google: It sounds like you're trying to visit slashdot.com, is this correct? Me: Uh, maybe later.. Google: Alright, I'll send you to youtube.com Thinking a bit more.. I guess Emily is the voice recognition equivalent of clippy. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 4 02:18:11 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 22:18:11 -0400 Subject: [OT] Something about that Greenwich meridian In-Reply-To: <1e55af990706031847m184e8a94taae2edabba502b60-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <46613A14.2425.39399E@sciguy.vex.net> <4661A553.2080301@rogers.com> <1e55af990706021226q766f7620l804420fde5ddbbc6@mail.gmail.com> <20070603000716.2c01061f@david.chipman> <1e55af990706031847m184e8a94taae2edabba502b60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070603221811.049e4303.gstrom@teksavvy.com> On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 21:47:21 -0400 "Sy Ali" wrote: > This Emily stuff has me thinking.. > > Has anyone played the old Hero's Quest games? The early ones where > you could type in all your actions were awesome. > > I remember finding the right people to talk to where the responses > were quite funny if you cussed. > > I even vaguely remember drinking a beer in a bar, and then for the > heck of it trying "pee in cup".. and having it work. It's too bad I > couldn't reproduce it later though. =( > If you have Emacs running under X, look under the Help menu. At the bottom is something called Emacs Psychiatrist. Ask the questions the right way and you can get some interesting answers--it even responds to cuss words. -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 4 07:53:20 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2007 03:53:20 -0400 Subject: Rogers cable modem speed In-Reply-To: <20070601200400.GL10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070601200400.GL10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4663C4F0.7010902@utoronto.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Is anyone else seeing indications that Rogers has boosted the speed of > their extreme service from 6 to 8Mbps? I was just surprised to see > this: > > 76% [163 python-twisted-core 722/753kB 0%] 884kB/s 42s > > It managed to go over 900 a few times too. > > An 80 MB transfer from ftp.ca.debian.org averaged 859kB/s. Even though it's not advertised as such, the ultra-lite service has gone to a d/l speed of about 320Kbps. Ivan. P.S. Don't tell anybody or they'll probably throttle it back. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 4 12:59:09 2007 From: slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slackrat) Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2007 14:59:09 +0200 Subject: [OT] Something about that Greenwich meridian In-Reply-To: <20070603221811.049e4303.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> (Glen Strom's message of "Sun\, 3 Jun 2007 22\:18\:11 -0400") References: <46613A14.2425.39399E@sciguy.vex.net> <4661A553.2080301@rogers.com> <1e55af990706021226q766f7620l804420fde5ddbbc6@mail.gmail.com> <20070603000716.2c01061f@david.chipman> <1e55af990706031847m184e8a94taae2edabba502b60@mail.gmail.com> <20070603221811.049e4303.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <87zm3f3mg2.fsf@azurservers.com> * Glen Strom a ?crit > If you have Emacs running under X, look under the Help menu. At the > bottom is something called Emacs Psychiatrist. Ask the questions the > right way and you can get some interesting answers--it even responds to > cuss words. Hey, Kool I had never visited Help so had missed that beauty ;) -- Regards, Slackrat [Bill Henderson] [No _4Q_ for direct email] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 4 18:28:06 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 18:28:06 +0000 Subject: (Simple?) High availability question In-Reply-To: <46608C64.1080505-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46607D7B.5040104@alteeve.com> <20070601205510.GM10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46608C64.1080505@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 6/1/07, Madison Kelly wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Well running primary/secondary bind is trivial. > > Aye, this was the least of my concerns. :P > > > Running identical web servers is not too hard, although you have to > > update both whenever you make page changes. Doing round robin > > connection distribution with a load balancer at the firewall isn't too > > hard, and there are probably better load balancers that take system load > > of each web server into account as well as checking that the web server > > is working and such. > > Since posting I found this: > http://www.howtoforge.com/load_balancing_apache_mod_proxy_balancer > > I'll be running 2.2, so this should help deal with the apache side of > things pretty easily. > > > Running two mail servers is harder. When a user reads or deletes a > > message, how do you ensure the update occours on both? Redundant mail > > reception isn't too hard since you just have one be the main mail server > > and the other a backup MX which simply holds and forwards mail to the > > primary when it comes back up (most of the time the primary receives the > > mail directly). > > The mail reception I wasn't worried about exactly because of the > simplicity of using multiple MX records. As you pointed out, it's the > directing users to their mailbox and keeping both in sync where the > trouble starts. This might be a better candidate for a share FS? > > > Redundant pgsql is VERY hard. If all you want is static database data > > then it wouldn't be a big deal and you could treat it like the web > > server. Of course this is almost never what anyone wants. Last I > > checked postgresql did not have live replication support, which is > > basicly what is needed. This is one of those places where oracle and > > db2 have a reason for existing. I believe mysql has a replicating > > server backend, although apparently that backend is much slower and has > > less features than the regular one, so it is a major tradeoff there. > > People are working on replication support for postgresql, but they have > > been working on it for years and I don't think it is working yet. It is > > a very complicated thing to implement. Keeping in sync when two servers > > are both up and already in sync is no big deal. Getting back in sync if > > one has been down is very hard, especially while data is still changing > > on the live server. > > Foo. I was under the impression that is exactly what clustering was > about. Is there a way to used a distributed file system (like coda) and > have two servers talking to the save directory structure? I am going to > go out on a limb and guess no. No, the problem is that the term "clustering" is spectacularly overloaded, having probably a dozen somewhat conflicting interpretations. Most modern database systems do not support having multiple servers "talking" to the same directory structure. In the case of PostgreSQL, that is decidedly Right Out; if two servers happen to start writing on the same directory structure, it is well-known that this immediately leads to the forcible DESTRUCTION of the database. We've had cases where IBM's HACMP product got confused, and mounted a DB directory on two servers; in EVERY case, this has destroyed the database. > I may have to give up the idea of having load balancing at this time and > stick with having the second server keep a mirror of the main server > with a heartbeat between the two to have the backup take over on a > failure of the main. Seems like a sad waste though with the second > server just sitting there. :( The trouble is that distributed lock management is a painful problem (including at the theoretical level). It's sure to be expensive, offers considerable risk of race condition bugs, and tends to chop down performance pretty heavily. > The main websites I care most about uptime on use PgSQL and have > frequent writes. Have you (or anyone) played with how to handle > mirroring the WAL of PostgreSQL? I can run a simple 'rsync' on the > backup server say every 5m but that won't help if the master failed > after an rsync (very likely) and without an up-to-date copy of the WAL > rebuilding the missing bits would be, if I understand it all right, not > possible. I could have a script run on the master that dumps the > databases very frequently and have the most recent loaded on failure but > I'd still lose any changes between the last dump and the failure. > > I hope I can come up with something more robust. Perhaps I'll have to > look into slony more. Here's an overview document that is of some value... http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.2/static/high-availability.html I'd say that there are two plausible answers: 1. Have the secondary server be on more or less cold/cool standby using PITR. http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.2/static/continuous-archiving.html Particularly if you have a bunch of databases, and modify them a fair bit (a "use case" of this sort is where you have one PG postmaster and have a whole bunch of databases perhaps used by customers' web applications), this is probably the easy way. 2. If you really want to have the standby server be usable to service queries, you might use a replication system such as Slony-I. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 4 18:57:34 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2007 20:57:34 +0200 Subject: iptables and kernels > 2.6.20 Message-ID: <4664609E.1060704@visible-assets.com> In the case where anyone is using a kernel >= 2.6.20, have you had any issues with iptables and nat? I'm using 2.6.20 and using the exact same config from 2.6.19, which had worked perfectly before my upgrad, but I receive the following error. # iptables -L -t nat FATAL: Module ip_tables not found. iptables v1.3.7: can't initialize iptables table `nat': Table does not exist (do you need to insmod?) Perhaps iptables or your kernel needs to be upgraded. I have the iptables built directly into my kernel, so it's not actually built as a module. Any suggestions are appreciated. ~/Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 4 18:59:30 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 14:59:30 -0400 Subject: iptables and kernels > 2.6.20 In-Reply-To: <4664609E.1060704-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <4664609E.1060704@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <20070604185930.GN10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 08:57:34PM +0200, Christopher Friedt wrote: > In the case where anyone is using a kernel >= 2.6.20, have you had any > issues with iptables and nat? > > I'm using 2.6.20 and using the exact same config from 2.6.19, which had > worked perfectly before my upgrad, but I receive the following error. > > # iptables -L -t nat > FATAL: Module ip_tables not found. > iptables v1.3.7: can't initialize iptables table `nat': Table does not > exist (do you need to insmod?) > Perhaps iptables or your kernel needs to be upgraded. > > I have the iptables built directly into my kernel, so it's not actually > built as a module. Maybe you shouldn't have. > Any suggestions are appreciated. Most likely you left out some config options for iptables features that you need. Perhaps some can ONLY be modules. It is not unheard of for kernel features that can't be built in at all. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 4 19:13:09 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:13:09 +0200 Subject: iptables and kernels > 2.6.20 In-Reply-To: <20070604185930.GN10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4664609E.1060704@visible-assets.com> <20070604185930.GN10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <46646445.3090801@visible-assets.com> I forgot to recompile libnetfilter_conntrack - these days it has to be built separately from iptables for some reason. Also, CONFIG_NF_CT_NETLINK seemed to be moved or added. Thanks for the suggestions in any event. ~/Chris Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 08:57:34PM +0200, Christopher Friedt wrote: >> In the case where anyone is using a kernel >= 2.6.20, have you had any >> issues with iptables and nat? >> >> I'm using 2.6.20 and using the exact same config from 2.6.19, which had >> worked perfectly before my upgrad, but I receive the following error. >> >> # iptables -L -t nat >> FATAL: Module ip_tables not found. >> iptables v1.3.7: can't initialize iptables table `nat': Table does not >> exist (do you need to insmod?) >> Perhaps iptables or your kernel needs to be upgraded. >> >> I have the iptables built directly into my kernel, so it's not actually >> built as a module. > > Maybe you shouldn't have. > >> Any suggestions are appreciated. > > Most likely you left out some config options for iptables features that > you need. Perhaps some can ONLY be modules. It is not unheard of for > kernel features that can't be built in at all. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 4 16:26:05 2007 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:26:05 Subject: Pegasoft Web site ? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20070604162605.0fef15bc@mail.look.ca> With regards to, and concerning: Ken Burtch Organization: PegaSoft Canada and in particular: Subject: [TLUG]: Lone Coder Blog - The Perfect SuSE Firewall Setup Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:34:37 -0500 At 04:34 PM 2007/02/14 -0500, Ken Burtch wrote: This is the latest--and largest--entry in my Lone Coder monthly column. A 22-point guide to setting up a home firewall with OpenSuSE 10.2 with a mail server, ClamAV and SpamAssassin. I lived to tell the tale! http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_february_2007.html Ken B. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today, I was unable to find Ken's article, and also unable to find the Pegasoft Web site itself. Does this mean that the Pegasoft Web site is dead - or is it merely down for maintenance ? Has Ken written any articles since February ? I also want to express my thanks to David J. Patrick of the Linux Caffe, for his confirmation that the Web site was inaccessible today. James ('Jim') E. McIntosh 416-292-8126 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 4 22:14:28 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 22:14:28 +0000 Subject: Pegasoft Web site ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20070604162605.0fef15bc-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20070604162605.0fef15bc@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:26:05, James McIntosh wrote: > Does this mean that the Pegasoft Web site is dead - or is it merely down > for maintenance ? CIRA still thinks it's registered, so I suspect it's a web hosting outage. Whether that's a temporary thing or longer term, I'm not sure. I'm enquiring of people that might know... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From geektastique-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 5 01:45:34 2007 From: geektastique-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steph Fox) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 21:45:34 -0400 Subject: OLS Shared Accommodations Message-ID: <7111fbb0706041845o294676e4ydeae7e0776a863f4@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, If any of you are going to OLS this year and interested in splitting accommodations, I know someone else who's looking for the same. Jesse Zbikowski's a good guy, flying in from California to check out the symposium again, and can be reached at embeddedlinuxguy-Re5JQEeQqe9fmgfxC/sS/w at public.gmane.org Thanks! Cheers, Steph -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 5 14:39:38 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 17:39:38 +0300 Subject: sudo configuration help Message-ID: Hi pals, I am trying to configure sudo to selectively allow write access of a specific file without accidentally giving write access to the whole system or even a directory. Is this possible and what is the safest way to go about it? Specifically, I want to allow write access to a file /etc/exim/smtp-auth. The sudo users currently have a read access to it, but that doesn't help much. The system don't have acl working and configuring them, though straight forward would be too disruptive to do on production server. How have you pals dealt with this issue? Regards William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 5 14:46:46 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 10:46:46 -0400 Subject: sudo configuration help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070605144646.GB19618@watson-wilson.ca> Untested: USERS smtp.example.org = /bin/vi /etc/exim/smtp-auth -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 32 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 5 16:37:58 2007 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 12:37:58 -0400 Subject: sudo configuration help In-Reply-To: <20070605144646.GB19618-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070605144646.GB19618@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070605163758.GP20407@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 10:46:46AM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > Untested: > USERS smtp.example.org = /bin/vi /etc/exim/smtp-auth That would run vi as root. While editting the specified file, the user would be able to open and edit any other file they wished during the same editting session. It would be better to write a short program that copied new contents over top of the specific file and run that with sudo. I'd then actually use a wrapper script that made a copy of the original, let the user edit it, provided some validation and asked for confirmation, etc., and then ran the sudo program to install it. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 5 15:19:31 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 18:19:31 +0300 Subject: sudo configuration help In-Reply-To: <20070605163758.GP20407-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20070605144646.GB19618@watson-wilson.ca> <20070605163758.GP20407@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: > > Untested: > > USERS smtp.example.org = /bin/vi /etc/exim/smtp-auth > > That would run vi as root. While editting the specified file, > the user would be able to open and edit any other file they > wished during the same editting session. This is what I experienced. Then I remembered a warning about this somewhere in http://www.amazon.com/UNIX-System-Administration-Handbook-3rd/dp/0130206016 > > It would be better to write a short program that copied new > contents over top of the specific file and run that with sudo. > I'd then actually use a wrapper script that made a copy of the > original, let the user edit it, provided some validation and > asked for confirmation, etc., and then ran the sudo program > to install it. A do agree, and someone has to have implemented it somehow Regards, William > > -- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 5 15:20:43 2007 From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:20:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: sudo configuration help Message-ID: <200706051520.l55FKhRm096368@localhost.generalconcepts.com> | On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 10:46:46AM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: | > Untested: | > USERS smtp.example.org = /bin/vi /etc/exim/smtp-auth | | That would run vi as root. While editting the specified file, | the user would be able to open and edit any other file they | wished during the same editting session. And don't forget about typing :shell in vi, which would give you a root shell. vi on freebsd seems to have a -S secure option, but vim on linux doesn't seem to have the same thing. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 5 15:11:33 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:11:33 -0400 Subject: sudo configuration help In-Reply-To: <20070605163758.GP20407-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20070605144646.GB19618@watson-wilson.ca> <20070605163758.GP20407@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20070605151133.GC19618@watson-wilson.ca> On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 12:37:58PM -0400, John Macdonald wrote: >On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 10:46:46AM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: >> USERS smtp.example.org = /bin/vi /etc/exim/smtp-auth > >That would run vi as root. While editting the specified file, >the user would be able to open and edit any other file they >wished during the same editting session. Good point. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 32 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 5 16:19:54 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 12:19:54 -0400 Subject: sudo configuration help In-Reply-To: References: <20070605144646.GB19618@watson-wilson.ca> <20070605163758.GP20407@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420706050919p47aa18afq8fad393f11d7e1c3@mail.gmail.com> On 6/5/07, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > > It would be better to write a short program that copied new > > contents over top of the specific file and run that with sudo. > > I'd then actually use a wrapper script that made a copy of the > > original, let the user edit it, provided some validation and > > asked for confirmation, etc., and then ran the sudo program > > to install it. > A do agree, and someone has to have implemented it somehow My sudo package includes a -e option, which can be invoked as either sudo -e or sudoedit that claims to do exactly what you want--allow a non-root user to safely edit files. According to man sudoers, you can give users permission to use sudoedit as follows (untested): USERS smtp.example.org = sudoedit /etc/exim/smtp-auth Users that intend to edit /etc/exim/smtp-auth can do so with either of the following commands: sudoedit /etc/exim/smtp-auth sudo -e /etc/exim/smtp-auth Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 5 17:06:27 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 13:06:27 -0400 Subject: sudo configuration help In-Reply-To: <7ac602420706050919p47aa18afq8fad393f11d7e1c3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070605144646.GB19618@watson-wilson.ca> <20070605163758.GP20407@lupus.perlwolf.com> <7ac602420706050919p47aa18afq8fad393f11d7e1c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070605170627.GB20509@watson-wilson.ca> On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 12:19:54PM -0400, Ian Petersen wrote: >My sudo package includes a -e option, which can be invoked as either >sudo -e or sudoedit that claims to do exactly what you want--allow a >non-root user to safely edit files. Thanks for the tip. I sadly note that Red Hat 3 and 4 both do not have this while the supposedly conservative Debian does. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 32 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dgardiner0821-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 02:52:36 2007 From: dgardiner0821-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (DANIEL GARDINER) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 22:52:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV and alternate channels and commercial skip In-Reply-To: <20070603133824.0E948854F7-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070603133824.0E948854F7@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <876539.33967.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Dave Mason wrote: > 1) Our building has a camera on the entry lobby so > we can observe pizza > delivery people trying to get buzzed in. It shows > up on channel 70. > Unfortunately, DataDirect says that APTN comes in on > channel 70, so when > I want to record, say Canadian Geographic specials, > I instead get 2 > hours of boring pictures of the entry. APTN instead > is on some other > channel, say 85. Does anybody have any idea how to > (a) add a manual > channel to be the lobby-cam (I can probably figure > this out and it isn't > really a big priority), or more importantly (b) how > to get APTN to be > associated with the correct physical channel > (particularly so it doesn't > get reset by the nightly database update). I think you can do this by editing the channel table in the mythconverg database, creating something similar to the duplicate channel entries some of us would see back when Rogers moved some channels around. But up front, I don't know a lot about mythtv or the mysql database so take what follows with a big grain of "does this guy even know what he's talking about?" What I think needs to be is to create an entry in the channel table that uses the station information APTN (for programs and schedules) with the channel information for channel 85. I'm guessing that for the station information you would want channum, name, and callsign, and xmltvid from APTN, and the other fields from channel 85 (except for chanid, that would have to be unique). Of course, you should back up the database before trying anything, and I would suggest creating a new entry merging the information together rather than modifying one of the existing entries. Daniel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 04:02:47 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 00:02:47 -0400 Subject: MythTV and alternate channels and commercial skip In-Reply-To: <876539.33967.qm-p6KvMhi7PWKB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <876539.33967.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <466631E7.5090106@ve3syb.ca> --- Dave Mason wrote: > 1) Our building has a camera on the entry lobby so we can observe pizza > delivery people trying to get buzzed in. It shows up on channel 70. > Unfortunately, DataDirect says that APTN comes in on channel 70, so when I > want to record, say Canadian Geographic specials, I instead get 2 hours of > boring pictures of the entry. APTN instead is on some other channel, say > 85. Does anybody have any idea how to (a) add a manual channel to be the > lobby-cam (I can probably figure this out and it isn't really a big > priority), or more importantly (b) how to get APTN to be associated with > the correct physical channel (particularly so it doesn't get reset by the > nightly database update). You can make changes to the channel lineup in mythtv-setup using the "Channel Editor". During the initial set-up of MythTV it would have scanned the cable to determine what channels you can tune you. This should have resulted in you having entries for channels 70 and 85. If your current setup lists Channel 70 as APTN and 85 as something else, the simplest thing to do is swap the frequency entry for channels 70 and 85. Pull up the entry for channel 70, hit "Next" twice, note the frequency, then hit "Finish". Pull up the entry for channel 85. Edit the "Channel Name" and "Callsign" to reflect that it is the lobby cam. Hit "Next" twice and note the frequency entry. Change the frequency entry to the entry from channel 70, then hit "Finish". Go back to channel 70 and change the Frequency to the value that was originally in channel 85. After these changes, when you select channel 70 it will tune the frequency of channel 85 and you should be watching APTN. When you select 85, it should tune the frequency of channel 70 and you will be watching the lobby cam. I should point out that I run MythTV which I build from Subversion. You should be able to do these same changes in the current release version of MythTV. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 06:03:58 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 02:03:58 -0400 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts Message-ID: <007601c7a800$794fd590$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Hello All, What's the standard way to dispose of old computer parts in the GTA? I have some old cases and motherboards to get rid off. Can I leave them curbside? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 12:59:32 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 15:59:32 +0300 Subject: sudo configuration help In-Reply-To: <20070605170627.GB20509-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070605144646.GB19618@watson-wilson.ca> <20070605163758.GP20407@lupus.perlwolf.com> <7ac602420706050919p47aa18afq8fad393f11d7e1c3@mail.gmail.com> <20070605170627.GB20509@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: Petersen, Thanks a lot for highlighting this. I am also unfortunately using RH and can't take advantage of that feature. Its however on fedora6 so it should be possible to use it in future Regards, William On 05/06/07, Neil Watson wrote: > On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 12:19:54PM -0400, Ian Petersen wrote: > >My sudo package includes a -e option, which can be invoked as either > >sudo -e or sudoedit that claims to do exactly what you want--allow a > >non-root user to safely edit files. > > Thanks for the tip. I sadly note that Red Hat 3 and 4 both do not have > this while the supposedly conservative Debian does. > > -- > Neil Watson | Debian Linux > System Administrator | Uptime 32 days > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 12:22:32 2007 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:22:32 -0400 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: <007601c7a800$794fd590$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <007601c7a800$794fd590$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <20070606082232.9nxn7i6cjmgcs4ww@webmail.easyhosting.com> Quoting Ansar Mohammed : > What?s the standard way to dispose of old computer parts in > the GTA? I have some old cases and motherboards to get rid off. Can I > leave them curbside? http://www.toronto.ca/garbage/depots.htm -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 13:28:19 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 09:28:19 -0400 Subject: sudo configuration help In-Reply-To: References: <20070605144646.GB19618@watson-wilson.ca> <20070605163758.GP20407@lupus.perlwolf.com> <7ac602420706050919p47aa18afq8fad393f11d7e1c3@mail.gmail.com> <20070605170627.GB20509@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <4666B673.4020202@utoronto.ca> Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Petersen, > > Thanks a lot for highlighting this. I am also unfortunately using RH > and can't take advantage of that feature. Its however on fedora6 so it > should be possible to use it in future > > Regards, > William Fedora 7 is out, and with lack of support for older versions, you might want to consider getting acquainted. Fedora Core 6 will be dead soon enough that there isn't a point to using it when you'll get updates for a longer period using 7. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 13:22:09 2007 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 09:22:09 -0400 Subject: if BC can do it why not in Ontario? Message-ID: <200706060922.09616.ican@netrover.com> http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/05/25/1536219 bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 14:04:52 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 10:04:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: <007601c7a800$794fd590$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <007601c7a800$794fd590$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <175243.21906.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Hello All, > What's the standard way to dispose of old computer > parts in the GTA? I have > some old cases and motherboards to get rid off. Can > I leave them curbside? Before getting rid of them to the likes of a landfill let me note some other possible options. I (and I know at least one other member of this list) have been involved in projects that take old PCs, fix them up and then pass them on to charities and individuals that would otherwise be unable to afford computers. There are a few members of this list (who I will not name :-) ), whose home PCs are surprisingly old, though I not sure in some cases if that is due to a lack of cash or a perverse pride in how old a machine you can use to run a current Linux... There are groups in the GTA that specialize in finding ways to keep stuff out of landfills, for example: groups.yahoo.com/group/FreecycleTO/ My suggestion would be to e-mail a note describing what you want to get rid of to the mailing list. Assuming the equipment in question isn't ancient chances are good someone here will be willing to come and pick it up from you. Alternatively, at least for some of the smaller items, bring them to a TLUG or NewTLUG meeting and you will likely be able to find some folks happy to take the parts away (I've done this and it has worked well...). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 14:58:34 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 10:58:34 -0400 Subject: if BC can do it why not in Ontario? In-Reply-To: <200706060922.09616.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200706060922.09616.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <20070606145834.GO10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 09:22:09AM -0400, bob wrote: > http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/05/25/1536219 They probably still have nightmares about thin clients from the Unisys/Burroughs Icon days. :) Well that on Ontario is always backwards and behind. Remember you can't have alcohol in public and you can only buy it from the government. As for getting it home from the store without having it in public, well that's the tricky part. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 14:59:51 2007 From: gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jing) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 10:59:51 -0400 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: <175243.21906.qm-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <007601c7a800$794fd590$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <175243.21906.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Just to throw more options into the pool, my previous Google'ing attempts gave me reBOOT Canada, which has a local office here in downtown Toronto. http://www.rebootcanada.ca/index_html.html Has anyone had any experience with them? On 6/6/07, Colin McGregor wrote: > --- Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > Hello All, > > What's the standard way to dispose of old computer > > parts in the GTA? I have > > some old cases and motherboards to get rid off. Can > > I leave them curbside? > > Before getting rid of them to the likes of a landfill > let me note some other possible options. > > I (and I know at least one other member of this list) > have been involved in projects that take old PCs, fix > them up and then pass them on to charities and > individuals that would otherwise be unable to afford > computers. > > There are a few members of this list (who I will not > name :-) ), whose home PCs are surprisingly old, > though I not sure in some cases if that is due to a > lack of cash or a perverse pride in how old a machine > you can use to run a current Linux... > > There are groups in the GTA that specialize in finding > ways to keep stuff out of landfills, for example: > > groups.yahoo.com/group/FreecycleTO/ > > My suggestion would be to e-mail a note describing > what you want to get rid of to the mailing list. > Assuming the equipment in question isn't ancient > chances are good someone here will be willing to come > and pick it up from you. Alternatively, at least for > some of the smaller items, bring them to a TLUG or > NewTLUG meeting and you will likely be able to find > some folks happy to take the parts away (I've done > this and it has worked well...). > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 15:10:27 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 11:10:27 -0400 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: <175243.21906.qm-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <007601c7a800$794fd590$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <175243.21906.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003b01c7a84c$d14465d0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Its really old stuff, AT cases, old scraped motherboards etc. I actually do the same thing for my daughter's preschool. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Colin > McGregor > Sent: June 6, 2007 10:05 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts > > --- Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > Hello All, > > What's the standard way to dispose of old computer > > parts in the GTA? I have > > some old cases and motherboards to get rid off. Can > > I leave them curbside? > > Before getting rid of them to the likes of a landfill > let me note some other possible options. > > I (and I know at least one other member of this list) > have been involved in projects that take old PCs, fix > them up and then pass them on to charities and > individuals that would otherwise be unable to afford > computers. > > There are a few members of this list (who I will not > name :-) ), whose home PCs are surprisingly old, > though I not sure in some cases if that is due to a > lack of cash or a perverse pride in how old a machine > you can use to run a current Linux... > > There are groups in the GTA that specialize in finding > ways to keep stuff out of landfills, for example: > > groups.yahoo.com/group/FreecycleTO/ > > My suggestion would be to e-mail a note describing > what you want to get rid of to the mailing list. > Assuming the equipment in question isn't ancient > chances are good someone here will be willing to come > and pick it up from you. Alternatively, at least for > some of the smaller items, bring them to a TLUG or > NewTLUG meeting and you will likely be able to find > some folks happy to take the parts away (I've done > this and it has worked well...). > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 15:19:42 2007 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 11:19:42 -0400 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: <175243.21906.qm-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <175243.21906.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I had similar questions since I'm moving soon, so I'm really glad this was asked. One other question I had is how to really wipe the hard-drive so it couldn't be recovered. I don't like the idea of personal info on a disposed computer eventually falling into the wrong hands. I've heard of something called blaster. I don't know if that's the best choice. Alex On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Colin McGregor wrote: > --- Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > Hello All, > > What's the standard way to dispose of old computer > > parts in the GTA? I have > > some old cases and motherboards to get rid off. Can > > I leave them curbside? > > Before getting rid of them to the likes of a landfill > let me note some other possible options. > > I (and I know at least one other member of this list) > have been involved in projects that take old PCs, fix > them up and then pass them on to charities and > individuals that would otherwise be unable to afford > computers. > > There are a few members of this list (who I will not > name :-) ), whose home PCs are surprisingly old, > though I not sure in some cases if that is due to a > lack of cash or a perverse pride in how old a machine > you can use to run a current Linux... > > There are groups in the GTA that specialize in finding > ways to keep stuff out of landfills, for example: > > groups.yahoo.com/group/FreecycleTO/ > > My suggestion would be to e-mail a note describing > what you want to get rid of to the mailing list. > Assuming the equipment in question isn't ancient > chances are good someone here will be willing to come > and pick it up from you. Alternatively, at least for > some of the smaller items, bring them to a TLUG or > NewTLUG meeting and you will likely be able to find > some folks happy to take the parts away (I've done > this and it has worked well...). > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 15:23:55 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 11:23:55 -0400 Subject: Wiping Data (Was: Re:OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4666D18B.2030905@alteeve.com> Alex Maynard wrote: > I had similar questions since I'm moving soon, so I'm really glad > this was asked. One other question I had > is how to really wipe the hard-drive so it couldn't be recovered. I > don't like the idea of personal info on a disposed computer eventually > falling into the wrong hands. I've heard of something called blaster. > I don't know if that's the best choice. > > Alex $ man shred Does a wonderful job, and lets you be as paranoid as you want! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 15:31:13 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 11:31:13 -0400 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: References: <007601c7a800$794fd590$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <175243.21906.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4666D341.2030703@ve3syb.ca> jing wrote: > http://www.rebootcanada.ca/index_html.html > > Has anyone had any experience with them? Depending on the age of the equipment they can help see it is disposed of properly. Unless a computer is newer than a Pentium II they aren't interested in it as part of their fix it up and send it back out program. I'm not sure what is the minimum level of computer they can re-use. Their web site doesn't have a lot of information on it. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 15:47:57 2007 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David C. Chipman) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 11:47:57 -0400 Subject: if BC can do it why not in Ontario? In-Reply-To: <20070606145834.GO10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200706060922.09616.ican@netrover.com> <20070606145834.GO10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070606114757.7f2d0cde@david.chipman> Hi Lennart, I know it's OT, but isn't the issue regarding alcohol in public, the possession of "open alcohol? You can trasnport it home, but the bottles/cans have to remain closed. Later, -David Chipman -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 15:53:02 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 11:53:02 -0400 Subject: Wiping Data (Was: Re:OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts) In-Reply-To: <4666D18B.2030905-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4666D18B.2030905@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4666D85E.3070804@ve3syb.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > $ man shred I have used wipe (http://wipe.sourceforge.net/) on a 486 and Pentium 1 machine which are now surplus to requirements. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 16:00:07 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 12:00:07 -0400 Subject: if BC can do it why not in Ontario? In-Reply-To: <20070606114757.7f2d0cde-lQMCrfjKGrJ3Ex1Y5TzZUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200706060922.09616.ican@netrover.com> <20070606145834.GO10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070606114757.7f2d0cde@david.chipman> Message-ID: <22e435080706060900yeed0ec3vebbdc45b1eb0adce@mail.gmail.com> On 6/6/07, David C. Chipman wrote: > Hi Lennart, > > I know it's OT, but isn't the issue regarding alcohol > in public, the possession of "open alcohol? You can trasnport it home, > but the bottles/cans have to remain closed. Later, > > -David Chipman Sorry ... just to take things way OT, I think open alcohol on public transit would be a great way to encourage the use of public transit ;). Places in Europe do this ... no? SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 16:03:12 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 12:03:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <183048.19853.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Alex Maynard wrote: > I had similar questions since I'm moving soon, so > I'm really glad > this was asked. One other question I had > is how to really wipe the hard-drive so it couldn't > be recovered. I > don't like the idea of personal info on a disposed > computer eventually > falling into the wrong hands. I've heard of > something called blaster. > I don't know if that's the best choice. > > Alex Sad to say, given the quality of firms that specialise in data recovery, if I were REALLY concerned about a hard drive falling into the wrong hands my advice would be to remove the hard drive from the system, then make liberal use of a sledge hammer. A small step below that, there are free floppy based hard drive wipe utilities like: dban.sourceforge.net Colin McGregor > On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Colin McGregor wrote: > > > --- Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > > Hello All, > > > What's the standard way to dispose of old > computer > > > parts in the GTA? I have > > > some old cases and motherboards to get rid off. > Can > > > I leave them curbside? > > > > Before getting rid of them to the likes of a > landfill > > let me note some other possible options. > > > > I (and I know at least one other member of this > list) > > have been involved in projects that take old PCs, > fix > > them up and then pass them on to charities and > > individuals that would otherwise be unable to > afford > > computers. > > > > There are a few members of this list (who I will > not > > name :-) ), whose home PCs are surprisingly old, > > though I not sure in some cases if that is due to > a > > lack of cash or a perverse pride in how old a > machine > > you can use to run a current Linux... > > > > There are groups in the GTA that specialize in > finding > > ways to keep stuff out of landfills, for example: > > > > groups.yahoo.com/group/FreecycleTO/ > > > > My suggestion would be to e-mail a note describing > > what you want to get rid of to the mailing list. > > Assuming the equipment in question isn't ancient > > chances are good someone here will be willing to > come > > and pick it up from you. Alternatively, at least > for > > some of the smaller items, bring them to a TLUG or > > NewTLUG meeting and you will likely be able to > find > > some folks happy to take the parts away (I've done > > this and it has worked well...). > > > > Colin McGregor > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 16:11:20 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 12:11:20 -0400 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: References: <175243.21906.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <22e435080706060911q468f7a34r72ecf339273f0dd9@mail.gmail.com> On 6/6/07, Alex Maynard wrote: > > I had similar questions since I'm moving soon, so I'm really glad > this was asked. One other question I had > is how to really wipe the hard-drive so it couldn't be recovered. I > don't like the idea of personal info on a disposed computer eventually > falling into the wrong hands. I've heard of something called blaster. > I don't know if that's the best choice. > > Alex > I normally do this a bunch of times, works pretty well on most *nix platforms excluding very old ones that don't have /dev/zero. Note you can do it by partition as well and play with the blocksize if you so desire which obviously effects the run time. dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=1024 SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 16:15:05 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:15:05 -0400 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4666DD89.6020909@rogers.com> Alex Maynard wrote: > I had similar questions since I'm moving soon, so I'm really glad > this was asked. One other question I had > is how to really wipe the hard-drive so it couldn't be recovered. I > don't like the idea of personal info on a disposed computer eventually > falling into the wrong hands. I've heard of something called blaster. > I don't know if that's the best choice. > > There are utilities available that will wipe a hard drive. There is also, IIRC a Linux command that will it, but I don't recall what it is. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 15:54:19 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 11:54:19 -0400 Subject: Wiping Data (Was: Re:OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts) In-Reply-To: <4666D18B.2030905-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4666D18B.2030905@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420706060854v4eaac15by8cc68fcb8cbd3ee5@mail.gmail.com> On 6/6/07, Madison Kelly wrote: > $ man shred > > Does a wonderful job, and lets you be as paranoid as you want! There's also DBAN (Darik's Boot and Nuke) at http://dban.sf.net. It's a bootable CD/DVD/floppy/USB key that irrevocably erases a machine with configurable levels of paranoia. Another possible solution, for future machines, is to encrypt the disk. Then, when you dispose of the machine, the contents of the disk are already scrambled--just make sure you pick strong passwords, and so on. I've seen a number of articles in various Linux magazines recently that talk about how to do this. You can either store the boot partition on a USB key to encrypt the _entire_ hard disk, or, if you're slightly less paranoid, you can leave an unencrypted boot partition on the drive, and then wipe that when you dispose of the machine. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 16:37:45 2007 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 12:37:45 -0400 Subject: Wiping Data (Was: Re:OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts) In-Reply-To: <4666D18B.2030905-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4666D18B.2030905@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Madison Kelly wrote: > Alex Maynard wrote: > > I had similar questions since I'm moving soon, so I'm really glad > > this was asked. One other question I had > > is how to really wipe the hard-drive so it couldn't be recovered. I > > don't like the idea of personal info on a disposed computer eventually > > falling into the wrong hands. I've heard of something called blaster. > > I don't know if that's the best choice. > > > > Alex > > $ man shred Thanks! That's easier than I thought. Alex > Does a wonderful job, and lets you be as paranoid as you want! > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 16:46:43 2007 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 12:46:43 -0400 Subject: Wiping Data (Was: Re:OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts) In-Reply-To: References: <4666D18B.2030905@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <92ee967a0706060946u1862ab2as3b0bbc7956e1d8a3@mail.gmail.com> On 6/6/07, Alex Maynard wrote: > > > On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Madison Kelly wrote: > > > Alex Maynard wrote: > > > I had similar questions since I'm moving soon, so I'm really glad > > > this was asked. One other question I had > > > is how to really wipe the hard-drive so it couldn't be recovered. I > > > don't like the idea of personal info on a disposed computer eventually > > > falling into the wrong hands. I've heard of something called blaster. > > > I don't know if that's the best choice. > > > > > > Alex > > > > $ man shred > > Thanks! That's easier than I thought. > > Alex > > > > > Does a wonderful job, and lets you be as paranoid as you want! > > > > Madi ... I've used DBAN, it seems to do the job: http://dban.sourceforge.net/ More thorough than a single-file wiping utility. Probably much slower though. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 15:56:54 2007 From: paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org (Paul Nash) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 11:56:54 -0400 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >is how to really wipe the hard-drive so it couldn't be recovered. I hit them with a 15-lb hammer. Repeatedly. I defy anyone to get any data back from them :-) paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 17:29:34 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:29:34 -0400 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: <22e435080706060911q468f7a34r72ecf339273f0dd9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <175243.21906.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <22e435080706060911q468f7a34r72ecf339273f0dd9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4666EEFE.7020702@ve3syb.ca> Sheldon Mustard wrote: > dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=1024 That is a very poor way to wipe a disk. The data will still be recoverable with the right hardware/tools. Most of the programs designed to make data unrecoverable include several passes where random data is written to the disk. IIRC, you need at least six different writes of data to truly make the information unrecoverable. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 17:44:39 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 13:44:39 -0400 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: <4666EEFE.7020702-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <175243.21906.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <22e435080706060911q468f7a34r72ecf339273f0dd9@mail.gmail.com> <4666EEFE.7020702@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <22e435080706061044o463f4229u8bf1bba8c984d0a@mail.gmail.com> On 6/6/07, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Sheldon Mustard wrote: > > dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=1024 > > That is a very poor way to wipe a disk. The data will still be recoverable > with the right hardware/tools. Most of the programs designed to make data > unrecoverable include several passes where random data is written to the disk. > IIRC, you need at least six different writes of data to truly make the > information unrecoverable. Yes good call, so several (maybe 10 or 15) passes with /dev/random then. SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 19:17:04 2007 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 15:17:04 -0400 Subject: Computer Parts / Systems Free To A Good Home Message-ID: <46670830.8030206@golden.net> As I've done before, I have accumulated some stuff over the last couple years and I have to get rid of it. My boss (aka wifie ;-) ) is quite explicit about this being done soon or else. 1) Sempron 900 processor, 256 mb ram, Sound, NIC and NVIdia Gforce4 64 mb AGP video, 8 GB HD and CD burner and hardware ISA modem 15 inch monitor. Was running Linux perfectly ........................ long story Win98 SE on it now. 2) K62 500 in pieces, HD and CDROM, S3 AGP 64 mb, NIC, 15 Monitor 3 ) Variety of memory modules, Simm, dim, SDRAM, processors (mostly pentium), 2 video cards pci and agp, 2 modems Anyone interested in some or all ? I am willing to deliver (GTA only) if necessary however I'll need a really good Sad Sack story to do this. ie Aliens stole my car etc ........ Please e-mail off the list. Offer closes this Saturday @23:59. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 19:34:47 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 15:34:47 -0400 Subject: if BC can do it why not in Ontario? In-Reply-To: <20070606114757.7f2d0cde-lQMCrfjKGrJ3Ex1Y5TzZUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200706060922.09616.ican@netrover.com> <20070606145834.GO10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070606114757.7f2d0cde@david.chipman> Message-ID: <20070606193447.GP10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 11:47:57AM -0400, David C. Chipman wrote: > I know it's OT, but isn't the issue regarding alcohol > in public, the possession of "open alcohol? You can trasnport it home, > but the bottles/cans have to remain closed. Later, Well they want you to put it in the trunk. Apparently walking home with it it should at least be hidden in a bag, so that you don't offend sensible ontarians with the visible presense of alcohol. Being within reach in your car even if not open is apparently considered wrong. I think they are amazingly stupid rules, and I don't even like alcohol. Personally I am more offended by people holding a cigarete than a bottle of beer. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 19:37:32 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 15:37:32 -0400 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070606193732.GQ10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 11:56:54AM -0400, Paul Nash wrote: > I hit them with a 15-lb hammer. Repeatedly. > > I defy anyone to get any data back from them :-) You never know. Perhaps wipe it and then hit if with a hammer. They are putting together shredded documents in Germany, so why not smashed HDs? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 19:47:33 2007 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Mike Oliver) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 15:47:33 -0400 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: <22e435080706061044o463f4229u8bf1bba8c984d0a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <175243.21906.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <22e435080706060911q468f7a34r72ecf339273f0dd9@mail.gmail.com> <4666EEFE.7020702@ve3syb.ca> <22e435080706061044o463f4229u8bf1bba8c984d0a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070606154733.xthzva5cg88k0k40@mail.math.yorku.ca> Quoting Sheldon Mustard : > On 6/6/07, Kevin Cozens wrote: >> Sheldon Mustard wrote: >> > dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=1024 >> >> That is a very poor way to wipe a disk. The data will still be recoverable >> with the right hardware/tools. Most of the programs designed to make data >> unrecoverable include several passes where random data is written to >> the disk. >> IIRC, you need at least six different writes of data to truly make the >> information unrecoverable. > > Yes good call, so several (maybe 10 or 15) passes with /dev/random then. That will take a *looong* time, unless it's a really small HDD. The idea of /dev/random is that it doesn't output bits faster than it can accumulate entropy (from keystrokes, disk start times, etc). So it's quite slow. Unless you're up against the NSA or equivalent, I'd think using /dev/urandom instead should be adequate. If you *are* up against the NSA I don't want to know about it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 21:20:25 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 17:20:25 -0400 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: <20070606154733.xthzva5cg88k0k40-eRF/mgt17vYuqM34mc2EBrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <175243.21906.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <22e435080706060911q468f7a34r72ecf339273f0dd9@mail.gmail.com> <4666EEFE.7020702@ve3syb.ca> <22e435080706061044o463f4229u8bf1bba8c984d0a@mail.gmail.com> <20070606154733.xthzva5cg88k0k40@mail.math.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <1181164825.4956.214.camel@stan64.site> I use the hammer approach. But I intially didn't wear eye protection and was fortunate to get hit hard in the cheek first to wake me up to that fact. (by flying pieces of disk). I actually put the disks in a cloth sack and wail on them with a heavy framing hammer, and forgo the eye protection. This did the trick! I am thinking for those who are in an apartment or don't have a heavy hammer ... what cheap chemical would wreck a disk? pool acid? or maybe something that would oxidize it quick? I am thinking there should be a product, something with a plastic bin, and a chemical, and you put the disk in , add chemical, shake, and 10 minutes later, a unrecoverable hard drive!! Preferably with a "green chemical". -tl On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 15:47 -0400, Mike Oliver wrote: > Quoting Sheldon Mustard : > > > On 6/6/07, Kevin Cozens wrote: > >> Sheldon Mustard wrote: > >> > dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=1024 > >> > >> That is a very poor way to wipe a disk. The data will still be recoverable > >> with the right hardware/tools. Most of the programs designed to make data > >> unrecoverable include several passes where random data is written to > >> the disk. > >> IIRC, you need at least six different writes of data to truly make the > >> information unrecoverable. > > > > Yes good call, so several (maybe 10 or 15) passes with /dev/random then. > > That will take a *looong* time, unless it's a really small HDD. The > idea of /dev/random is that it doesn't output bits faster than it > can accumulate entropy (from keystrokes, disk start times, etc). So > it's quite slow. Unless you're up against the NSA or equivalent, I'd think > using /dev/urandom instead should be adequate. If you *are* up against > the NSA I don't want to know about it. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 21:23:28 2007 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 17:23:28 -0400 Subject: office 2007 Message-ID: <466725D0.4090201@gmail.com> interesting that open source projects/programs are used (and have their own tabs) in Microsoft's Office 2007. GnuPGP and WinPT Windows Privacy Tray. Next time Steve Ballmer goes ballistic about opensource, ask if he's used Outlook 2007 lately. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 6 21:26:28 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 17:26:28 -0400 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: <1181164825.4956.214.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <175243.21906.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <22e435080706060911q468f7a34r72ecf339273f0dd9@mail.gmail.com> <4666EEFE.7020702@ve3syb.ca> <22e435080706061044o463f4229u8bf1bba8c984d0a@mail.gmail.com> <20070606154733.xthzva5cg88k0k40@mail.math.yorku.ca> <1181164825.4956.214.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <46672684.8060909@rogers.com> tleslie wrote: > I use the hammer approach. > But I intially didn't wear eye protection > and was fortunate to get hit hard in the cheek first to > wake me up to that fact. (by flying pieces of disk). > I actually put the disks in a cloth sack and wail on them with a > heavy framing hammer, and forgo the eye protection. > This did the trick! > > I am thinking for those who are in an apartment or don't have a heavy > hammer ... > what cheap chemical would wreck a disk? > pool acid? or maybe something that would oxidize it quick? > > I am thinking there should be a product, > something with a plastic bin, and a chemical, > and you put the disk in , add chemical, shake, > and 10 minutes later, a unrecoverable hard drive!! > Preferably with a "green chemical". > Why not just open the drive and break the disks? I suspect you'll have a bit of difficulty finding a "green chemical" that's capable of destroying a disk drive. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 7 13:56:29 2007 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 09:56:29 -0400 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: <20070606154733.xthzva5cg88k0k40-eRF/mgt17vYuqM34mc2EBrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <175243.21906.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <22e435080706060911q468f7a34r72ecf339273f0dd9@mail.gmail.com> <4666EEFE.7020702@ve3syb.ca> <22e435080706061044o463f4229u8bf1bba8c984d0a@mail.gmail.com> <20070606154733.xthzva5cg88k0k40@mail.math.yorku.ca> Message-ID: On 6/6/07, Mike Oliver wrote: > That will take a *looong* time, unless it's a really small HDD. The > idea of /dev/random is that it doesn't output bits faster than it > can accumulate entropy (from keystrokes, disk start times, etc). So > it's quite slow. Unless you're up against the NSA or equivalent, I'd think > using /dev/urandom instead should be adequate. If you *are* up against > the NSA I don't want to know about it. Try /dev/urandom. When the entropy pool is exhausted, the kernel switches to a pseudo-random number generator. pm -- Paul Mora Registered Linux user #2065 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 7 15:12:30 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 11:12:30 -0400 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4668205E.7080007@telly.org> Every municipal ward in Toronto has a Community Environment Day scheduled this summer. At this event, the city sets up a depot to take various items including electronics, tires, paint, household hazardous waste, clothes etc. As much as is possible of what is dropped off there is reused or recycled. At these events you can also buy new-replacement blue and green bins, and grab as much compost as you want. The events are taking place all summer long, at locations around the city. I find this a convenient way to get rid of old TVs, computers, batteries, etc. The ones this weekend are taking place Saturday, at Coxwell & Lakeshore and Albion & Kipling. http://www.toronto.ca/environment_days/index.htm - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jeffliutor-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 7 15:42:53 2007 From: jeffliutor-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jeff Liu) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:42:53 -0400 Subject: Computer Parts / Systems Free To A Good Home In-Reply-To: <46670830.8030206-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <46670830.8030206@golden.net> Message-ID: <3263242b0706070842q7ef8811fv4a4bc3205735d68e@mail.gmail.com> Hi John, I am interested in first package. I have not got AMD based computer before, it would be a good chance for me to get some sense on AMD CPU. I am a kinda feel guilty to ask you to deliver, which area do you live? Maybe I can pickup myself. Thanks, Jeff On 6/6/07, John Myshrall wrote: > As I've done before, I have accumulated some stuff over the last couple > years and I have to get rid of it. My boss (aka wifie ;-) ) is quite > explicit about this being done soon or else. > > 1) Sempron 900 processor, 256 mb ram, Sound, NIC and NVIdia Gforce4 64 > mb AGP video, 8 GB HD and CD burner and hardware ISA modem 15 inch > monitor. Was running Linux perfectly ........................ long story > Win98 SE on it now. > > 2) K62 500 in pieces, HD and CDROM, S3 AGP 64 mb, NIC, 15 Monitor > > 3 ) Variety of memory modules, Simm, dim, SDRAM, processors (mostly > pentium), 2 video cards pci and agp, 2 modems > > Anyone interested in some or all ? I am willing to deliver (GTA only) > if necessary however I'll need a really good Sad Sack story to do this. > ie Aliens stole my car etc ........ > > Please e-mail off the list. Offer closes this Saturday @23:59. > > John > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 7 16:07:27 2007 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 12:07:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: <1181164825.4956.214.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <175243.21906.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <22e435080706060911q468f7a34r72ecf339273f0dd9@mail.gmail.com> <4666EEFE.7020702@ve3syb.ca> <22e435080706061044o463f4229u8bf1bba8c984d0a@mail.gmail.com> <20070606154733.xthzva5cg88k0k40@mail.math.yorku.ca> <1181164825.4956.214.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, tleslie wrote: > I am thinking for those who are in an apartment or don't have a heavy > hammer ... > what cheap chemical would wreck a disk? > pool acid? or maybe something that would oxidize it quick? > I am thinking there should be a product, > something with a plastic bin, and a chemical, > and you put the disk in , add chemical, shake, > and 10 minutes later, a unrecoverable hard drive!! > Preferably with a "green chemical". Maybe manufacturers should start making hard drives with built-in "Destruct" buttons :) JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 7 16:13:20 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 16:13:20 +0000 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: References: <175243.21906.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <22e435080706060911q468f7a34r72ecf339273f0dd9@mail.gmail.com> <4666EEFE.7020702@ve3syb.ca> <22e435080706061044o463f4229u8bf1bba8c984d0a@mail.gmail.com> <20070606154733.xthzva5cg88k0k40@mail.math.yorku.ca> <1181164825.4956.214.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: On 6/7/07, John Vetterli wrote: > On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, tleslie wrote: > > I am thinking for those who are in an apartment or don't have a heavy > > hammer ... > > what cheap chemical would wreck a disk? > > pool acid? or maybe something that would oxidize it quick? > > I am thinking there should be a product, > > something with a plastic bin, and a chemical, > > and you put the disk in , add chemical, shake, > > and 10 minutes later, a unrecoverable hard drive!! > > Preferably with a "green chemical". > > Maybe manufacturers should start making hard drives with built-in "Destruct" > buttons :) They did, except they left out the button; remember the IBM "DeathStar" drives? They'd self-destruct after a while with no user intervention required ;-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 7 16:13:34 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 12:13:34 -0400 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: References: <175243.21906.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <22e435080706060911q468f7a34r72ecf339273f0dd9@mail.gmail.com> <4666EEFE.7020702@ve3syb.ca> <22e435080706061044o463f4229u8bf1bba8c984d0a@mail.gmail.com> <20070606154733.xthzva5cg88k0k40@mail.math.yorku.ca> <1181164825.4956.214.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <46682EAE.5040601@utoronto.ca> John Vetterli wrote: > On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, tleslie wrote: >> I am thinking for those who are in an apartment or don't have a heavy >> hammer ... >> what cheap chemical would wreck a disk? >> pool acid? or maybe something that would oxidize it quick? >> I am thinking there should be a product, >> something with a plastic bin, and a chemical, >> and you put the disk in , add chemical, shake, >> and 10 minutes later, a unrecoverable hard drive!! >> Preferably with a "green chemical". > > Maybe manufacturers should start making hard drives with built-in > "Destruct" buttons :) Or with hardware based encryption: http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2007/03/12/tech-seagateencrypteddrive-2070312.html Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 7 16:28:08 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 12:28:08 -0400 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: References: <175243.21906.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <22e435080706060911q468f7a34r72ecf339273f0dd9@mail.gmail.com> <4666EEFE.7020702@ve3syb.ca> <22e435080706061044o463f4229u8bf1bba8c984d0a@mail.gmail.com> <20070606154733.xthzva5cg88k0k40@mail.math.yorku.ca> <1181164825.4956.214.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <46683218.2010006@rogers.com> John Vetterli wrote: > On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, tleslie wrote: >> I am thinking for those who are in an apartment or don't have a heavy >> hammer ... >> what cheap chemical would wreck a disk? >> pool acid? or maybe something that would oxidize it quick? >> I am thinking there should be a product, >> something with a plastic bin, and a chemical, >> and you put the disk in , add chemical, shake, >> and 10 minutes later, a unrecoverable hard drive!! >> Preferably with a "green chemical". > > Maybe manufacturers should start making hard drives with built-in > "Destruct" buttons :) > Just like in Mission Impossible. "This drive will self destruct in 5 seconds." Then all the smoke gets let out of the components, causing them to fail. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 7 16:38:31 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 12:38:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: <46683218.2010006-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46683218.2010006@rogers.com> Message-ID: <195317.19642.qm@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- James Knott wrote: > John Vetterli wrote: > > On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, tleslie wrote: > >> I am thinking for those who are in an apartment > or don't have a heavy > >> hammer ... > >> what cheap chemical would wreck a disk? > >> pool acid? or maybe something that would oxidize > it quick? > >> I am thinking there should be a product, > >> something with a plastic bin, and a chemical, > >> and you put the disk in , add chemical, shake, > >> and 10 minutes later, a unrecoverable hard > drive!! > >> Preferably with a "green chemical". > > > > Maybe manufacturers should start making hard > drives with built-in > > "Destruct" buttons :) > > > > Just like in Mission Impossible. > > "This drive will self destruct in 5 seconds." Then > all the smoke gets > let out of the components, causing them to fail. > ;-) Of course everyone knows that computers run on smoke, if the smoke escapes the machine stops working :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 7 16:50:49 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 12:50:49 -0400 Subject: Need some opinions/testers Message-ID: <46683769.1050308@alteeve.com> Hi all, I've finished a new (free) website/program which I won't mention for fear of advertising accusations! It is possibly controversial as it can be abused if not carefully implemented. I've taken steps to prevent that, as I think it could also be very beneficial in other cases. What I would like is to get some people, say up to ten, who would be interested in helping me out with two things; One: - I need some help with fresh eyes to try to think of ways that the program can be abused (from a non-coder user level). For this, I need people who can think of ways a malicious user might abuse the program. Two: - I need help with people testing the website and it's functions on various platforms and, if someone is interested and able, trying to attack it at code-level. I really don't want to make the program generally known until this is over, so please email me off list at mkelly-5ZoueyuiTZjowKkBSvOlow at public.gmane.org No, it's not some "killer app" or "xyz killer" type application. I just want to keep it quiet until any possible bugs/flaws can be flushed out. It's really quite humble and basic, so it probably won't be overwhelmingly exciting. :) Thanks all, and sorry if this is considered too off topic! (it is a Linux/Apache/Perl/PostgreSQL app). Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 7 18:09:34 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 14:09:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG Mail list archives? Message-ID: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Could someone kindly post the location of the TLUG list archives? I can't see them referenced on the TLUG web page. Thanks - -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jeffliutor-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 7 18:47:52 2007 From: jeffliutor-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jeff Liu) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 14:47:52 -0400 Subject: TLUG Mail list archives? In-Reply-To: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> Is this what you are looking for? http://news.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug/ Cheers. On 6/7/07, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Could someone kindly post the location of the TLUG list archives? I can't > see them referenced on the TLUG web page. > > Thanks - > > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 7 19:31:07 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 15:31:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG Mail list archives? In-Reply-To: <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Is this what you are looking for? > > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug/ > Thanks, Jeff. That's it. I've been using Pathcom as an ISP, but their DSL access has slowed to a crawl and they seem to be incapable of doing anything substantive to fix the situation. (They have, however, wished me a nice day on every one of my dozen phone calls to them.) I'm using absolutely basic service: web pages and the occasional .pdf. So I'm starting to look around at the options for DSL providers, and what's been discussed in the archives. Any testimonials on ISP's would be of interest. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jeffliutor-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 7 19:57:35 2007 From: jeffliutor-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jeff Liu) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 15:57:35 -0400 Subject: TLUG Mail list archives? In-Reply-To: <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <3263242b0706071257w1f3e96fetfa10e0da36aa38d9@mail.gmail.com> Hi Peter, I have used both Bell and Primus DSL and they are all good, fast and reliable. Primus seems a bit cheaper than Bell. That's only my experience. Thanks. On 6/7/07, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Is this what you are looking for? > > > > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug/ > > > Thanks, Jeff. That's it. > > I've been using Pathcom as an ISP, but their DSL access has slowed to a > crawl and they seem to be incapable of doing anything substantive to fix > the situation. (They have, however, wished me a nice day on every one of > my dozen phone calls to them.) > > I'm using absolutely basic service: web pages and the occasional .pdf. > > So I'm starting to look around at the options for DSL providers, and > what's been discussed in the archives. > > Any testimonials on ISP's would be of interest. > > Peter > > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 7 21:50:28 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 17:50:28 -0400 Subject: apt-get install gcc-g++ fails because ++ is removed. In-Reply-To: <20070525151333.GA10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990705240957o6b316108x5d024f78d88aca02@mail.gmail.com> <20070524170246.GW10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990705241017m4da23923y82271f829656a0a3@mail.gmail.com> <4655D302.7050806@ve3syb.ca> <1e55af990705250024n6029ea20me869cbac37347062@mail.gmail.com> <20070525151333.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990706071450k96a2c12n2566d5198f7afc6b@mail.gmail.com> I did some checking up while I had a moment.. apt-get install gcc-c\\+\\+ Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done E: Couldn't find package gcc-c\+\ This works: apt-get install gcc-c\+\+ And with more testing, it seems that this problem has gone away entirely. Maybe I _was_ constantly typoing apt-get install gcc-g++ =( Or maybe a recent update somehow fixed it? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zh.huang-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 01:53:46 2007 From: zh.huang-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rex Huang) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 09:53:46 +0800 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: <195317.19642.qm-fjYszm/wOJWB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <46683218.2010006@rogers.com> <195317.19642.qm@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <573409e0706071853p7b062228s219088d4e7b8602b@mail.gmail.com> Copy a VAN LUG notification here, the topic for monthly meeting is about recylcing too. /zuoheng **************************************************************************** VanLUG June 18th Meeting - Hardware drive "Bring Out Your Dead!" - Eric Idol Monty Python and the Holy Grail http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuvB7j9n-II In a break from our normal meeting format VanLUG will be joining FreeGeek (http://www.freegeekvancouver.org) to hold a computer hardware drive on June 18th at 7:30 at their new warehouse at 117 East 2nd Avenue (between Main & Quebec). Clean out the old computer gear in your basement and earn kudos from your significant other while ensuring it is reused or at least responsibly recycled. We will have door prizes for the most hardware donated, the most obscure hardware, and the oldest running system. IBM will be providing a speaker to talk about the greening of electronics. VanLUG will be providing pizza and pop. Please us the RSVP form http://www.vanlug.bc.ca/members/rsvp.php to ensure that we order the correct amount of food. If you have any specific food requirements please be sure to let us know. Please be aware that FreeGeek charges $10 per CRT (monitor) in order to offset their costs. For more information about the hardware they accept please visit http://freegeekvancouver.org/?q=en/computer_recycling. Don't worry if it's not dead yet, FreeGeek builds complete Linux systems out of the reusable hardware and makes it available either through their adoption or hardware grant programs. As always, VanLUG meetings are free and open to everyone. You are welcome to come with our without any hardware to donate. When: June 18th, 7:30 Where: 117 E 2nd Ave, between Main & Quebec http://freegeekvancouver.org/en/directions What: Computer hardware drive Who: VanLUG and FreeGeek with a speaker from IBM Parking: There is a loading dock in the lane between 1st and 2nd for dropping off equipment. Free parking in the area is sparse, however there is pay parking at the north-east corner of Terminal and Quebec and the Science World/Main Street SkyTrain station is nearby. Please remember to RSVP at http://www.vanlug.bc.ca/members/rsvp.php so that we can order the right amount of food. - Ben -- This message came to you via the Vancouver Linux Users Group mailing list. For unsubscription instructions do not email the list, but rather send mail to vanlug-request-+k6x+rhczYXuFKmmi/icCA at public.gmane.org ******************************************************************************** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 06:00:36 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 02:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: | From: | I've been using Pathcom as an ISP, but their DSL access has slowed to a | crawl and they seem to be incapable of doing anything substantive to fix | the situation. (They have, however, wished me a nice day on every one of | my dozen phone calls to them.) The "last mile" of all DSL providers is the same: Bell Nexia. Do you know if the bottleneck is within Bell's network or Pathcom's? If it is within Bell's then you need to switch to Rogers :-( For example, my DSL connection is bad. The problem appears to be that my wire to the Central Office is 5km, about the limit. It is pretty hard to figure out where the problem is: nobody knows or if they do they don't want to tell you. Usually you can ask your DSL modem about line quality and bandwidth limitations. I don't know enough to know how to interpret them. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 13:52:13 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 09:52:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <50115.207.188.67.28.1181310733.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > | From: > > | I've been using Pathcom as an ISP, but their DSL access has slowed to a > | crawl and they seem to be incapable of doing anything substantive to fix > | the situation. (They have, however, wished me a nice day on every one of > | my dozen phone calls to them.) > > The "last mile" of all DSL providers is the same: Bell Nexia. > > Do you know if the bottleneck is within Bell's network or Pathcom's? > If it is within Bell's then you need to switch to Rogers :-( > > For example, my DSL connection is bad. The problem appears to be that > my wire to the Central Office is 5km, about the limit. > > It is pretty hard to figure out where the problem is: nobody knows or > if they do they don't want to tell you. > > Usually you can ask your DSL modem about line quality and bandwidth > limitations. I don't know enough to know how to interpret them. Here (below) is a typical result from pinging a website. I get a similar result irrespective of the website. It pings fine for a while and then the site becomes unreachable. This shouldn't be a distance problem, we're less than 1km from the CO - and the Bell tech who was here said I should be getting something like 5MB/sec at this location. I wonder if the Sympatico service is any better than the other ISPs? You could then see this as a strategy to drive customers into Bell's embrace. Anyway, I'm checking out Rogers: it's about $10 more per month, but reliable fast service would be worth it. 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=542 ttl=54 time=61.8 ms 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=543 ttl=54 time=63.1 ms 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=544 ttl=54 time=62.7 ms 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=545 ttl=54 time=62.3 ms 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=546 ttl=54 time=63.6 ms 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=547 ttl=54 time=62.9 ms 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=548 ttl=54 time=62.8 ms 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=549 ttl=54 time=63.0 ms >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=570 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=571 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=572 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=573 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=574 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=575 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=576 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=577 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=578 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=579 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=580 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=581 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=582 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=583 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=584 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=585 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=586 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=587 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=588 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=589 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=590 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=591 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=592 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=593 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=594 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=595 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=596 Destination Net Unreachable >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=597 Destination Net Unreachable 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=598 ttl=54 time=61.1 ms 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=599 ttl=54 time=62.5 ms 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=600 ttl=54 time=63.0 ms 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=601 ttl=54 time=62.1 ms 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=602 ttl=54 time=62.4 ms -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 14:08:31 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 10:08:31 -0400 Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <50115.207.188.67.28.1181310733.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50115.207.188.67.28.1181310733.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1181311711.9710.387.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Fri, 2007-06-08 at 09:52 -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Here (below) is a typical result from pinging a website. I get a similar > result irrespective of the website. It pings fine for a while and then the > site becomes unreachable. > > This shouldn't be a distance problem, we're less than 1km from the CO - > and the Bell tech who was here said I should be getting something like > 5MB/sec at this location. > > I wonder if the Sympatico service is any better than the other ISPs? You > could then see this as a strategy to drive customers into Bell's embrace. > > Anyway, I'm checking out Rogers: it's about $10 more per month, but > reliable fast service would be worth it. > > 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=542 ttl=54 time=61.8 ms > 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=543 ttl=54 time=63.1 ms > 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=544 ttl=54 time=62.7 ms > 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=545 ttl=54 time=62.3 ms > 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=546 ttl=54 time=63.6 ms > 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=547 ttl=54 time=62.9 ms > 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=548 ttl=54 time=62.8 ms > 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=549 ttl=54 time=63.0 ms > >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=570 Destination Net Unreachable > ... > >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=595 Destination Net Unreachable > >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=596 Destination Net Unreachable > >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=597 Destination Net Unreachable > 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=598 ttl=54 time=61.1 ms > 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=599 ttl=54 time=62.5 ms > 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=600 ttl=54 time=63.0 ms > 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=601 ttl=54 time=62.1 ms > 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=602 ttl=54 time=62.4 ms Could it be a flaky DSL modem? I've had similar (not identical) results that went away with another modem. See if you have a neighbour or friend with a DSL modem and borrow it for testing. Other things to consider is interference from other phones in the house. Pathcom must have taken you through this by disconnecting all the phones (and answering machines and Asterisk boxes) in the house. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 14:15:23 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 10:15:23 -0400 Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <50115.207.188.67.28.1181310733.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50115.207.188.67.28.1181310733.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4669647B.8030507@telly.org> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > I wonder if the Sympatico service is any better than the other ISPs? You > could then see this as a strategy to drive customers into Bell's embrace. > All I can tell you from my experience is that Bell's support, bad as it was, is now far worse since they've offshored it. In multiple support calls over the last few weeks -- some for business clients, some for friends with Sympatico -- I get put on hold every time I ask a question, I have a hard time with some of the accents, and the latency of the phone call is a noticable irritant. In one call, the operator gave me incorrect information, only to correct herself just as I was ending the call. Yeah, Rogers support isn't that great either. But it's award-winning next to Bell. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 14:31:19 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 10:31:19 -0400 Subject: OT: Divx/Mp3 players Message-ID: <001e01c7a9d9$aeb392f0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Hello All, Apologies again for another off topic post. But has anyone tried any of the new DivX/MP3 portable players? I see them on bestbuy and tigerdirect for 80$ and they look pretty cool. MPIO seems to be the cheapest at 80$. It seems to be a reasonable alternative to the iPoD and without going to a proprietary format/software. And most of my media is in DIvX anyway. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_MP4/MTV_Player http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon= &langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10081085&catid=23693 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 15:12:15 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 11:12:15 -0400 Subject: OT: Divx/Mp3 players In-Reply-To: <001e01c7a9d9$aeb392f0$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <001e01c7a9d9$aeb392f0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <20070608151215.GR10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 08, 2007 at 10:31:19AM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Apologies again for another off topic post. But has anyone tried any of the > new DivX/MP3 portable players? > I see them on bestbuy and tigerdirect for 80$ and they look pretty cool. > MPIO seems to be the cheapest at 80$. It seems to be a reasonable > alternative to the iPoD and without going to a proprietary format/software. > And most of my media is in DIvX anyway. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_MP4/MTV_Player > > http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon= > GFS10081085&catid=23693> &langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10081085&catid=23693 I think I saw those for less than that price at pacific mall about a month ago. They sure have some tiny mp3 and video players there. Some make the ipod shuffle look bloated. :) No idea if they work or not. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 15:50:57 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 11:50:57 -0400 Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20070608155057.GS10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 08, 2007 at 02:00:36AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > The "last mile" of all DSL providers is the same: Bell Nexia. I have seen some ISPs support running on sprint phone lines too, so no not quite everyone has to use bell for the last mile. Just most. > Do you know if the bottleneck is within Bell's network or Pathcom's? > If it is within Bell's then you need to switch to Rogers :-( It is almost certainly with the ISP. The bandwidth in the DSLAM going to the ISP access is very high. I have certainly seen cases where one DSL user was getting terrible speed and another using the same CO was getting amazing speed on a different ISP. > For example, my DSL connection is bad. The problem appears to be that > my wire to the Central Office is 5km, about the limit. Well the distance certainly affect speed. Some DSL models will tell you their current connection speed, which can give an idea as to what the speed is. When I had DSL at an appartment a few years ago, the internal wiring in the building was crap, and I was on the 21th floor. I often had the DSL connection drop out, and the speed was never great, but I knew it was due to the crappy wiring. > It is pretty hard to figure out where the problem is: nobody knows or > if they do they don't want to tell you. > > Usually you can ask your DSL modem about line quality and bandwidth > limitations. I don't know enough to know how to interpret them. Well here is some values from one ADSL modem here: ------------------------------------------- w3adsl: SIGNAL TO NOISE RATIO ------------------------------------------- Local SNR Ratio : 31 dB Remote SNR Ratio: 5 dB --------------------------------- w3adsl: ATTENUATION --------------------------------- Attenuation: 20 dB ------------------------------------ w3adsl: ADSL BAUD RATE ------------------------------------ Down Rate: 3008 kbps : Interleave Buf Up Rate: 800 kbps : Interleave Buf ----------------------------------- w3adsl: REMOTE VENDOR ----------------------------------- Remote Vendor (hex): 0f0042434c41 --------------------------------------- w3adsl: XMIT POWER STATUS --------------------------------------- Local Attenuation : 6 dB Local Num of Bins : 23 Remote Num of bins: 210 And much more too. I don't really know how to make sense of a lot of it either. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jeffliutor-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 16:06:12 2007 From: jeffliutor-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jeff Liu) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 12:06:12 -0400 Subject: Linux vs Solaris Message-ID: <3263242b0706080906t76a7d20w6ecb50a95a3dc596@mail.gmail.com> Hi there, I am learning Solaris10 X86 now and find some difference between Linux and Solaris, however I don't know what's the major difference. So far what I found include, 1. Looks like compiling source code on Solaris is not an easy job. 2. Some command syntax are different on Solaris. 3. run level scripts /etc/rc.d/rc.x has been migrated to svc on Solaris. 4. The way to setup network interfaces is different on Solaris. Anything more? Did I miss some major difference? Thanks, Jeff -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 16:20:02 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 12:20:02 -0400 Subject: Linux vs Solaris In-Reply-To: <3263242b0706080906t76a7d20w6ecb50a95a3dc596-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3263242b0706080906t76a7d20w6ecb50a95a3dc596@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070608162002.GT10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 08, 2007 at 12:06:12PM -0400, Jeff Liu wrote: > I am learning Solaris10 X86 now and find some difference between Linux > and Solaris, however I don't know what's the major difference. So far > what I found include, > > 1. Looks like compiling source code on Solaris is not an easy job. > 2. Some command syntax are different on Solaris. > 3. run level scripts /etc/rc.d/rc.x has been migrated to svc on Solaris. > 4. The way to setup network interfaces is different on Solaris. > > Anything more? Did I miss some major difference? They way you add new hardware to the system and update the configuration of the kernel seems quite different. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 16:35:26 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 12:35:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux vs Solaris In-Reply-To: <3263242b0706080906t76a7d20w6ecb50a95a3dc596-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3263242b0706080906t76a7d20w6ecb50a95a3dc596@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2007, Jeff Liu wrote: > Hi there, > > I am learning Solaris10 X86 now and find some difference between Linux > and Solaris, however I don't know what's the major difference. So far > what I found include, > > 1. Looks like compiling source code on Solaris is not an easy job. Install the GNU gcc/binutils, and it will be the same. > 2. Some command syntax are different on Solaris. Again, Solaris doesn't have the GNU utils, but otherwise the shells are the same. Unless, of course, you are using csh, in which case change your shell to bash (if it's installed; install it if it's not) or the POSIX shell, which is /usr/xpg4/bin/sh. Solaris also uses obsolete versions of some commands by default, but have POSIX versions in /usr/xpg4/bin/ (awk is a famous example; use nawk or /usr/xpg4/bin/awk instead). -- Chris F.A. Johnson ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 16:47:12 2007 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 08 Jun 2007 12:47:12 -0400 Subject: Linux vs Solaris In-Reply-To: References: <3263242b0706080906t76a7d20w6ecb50a95a3dc596@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: "Chris F.A. Johnson" writes: > On Fri, 8 Jun 2007, Jeff Liu wrote: > > 1. Looks like compiling source code on Solaris is not an easy job. > > Install the GNU gcc/binutils, and it will be the same. This site should prove handy in helping you create a useable Solaris environment: http://www.sunfreeware.com/ HTH, -- g. matthew rice starnix care, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 16:49:46 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 12:49:46 -0400 Subject: Linux vs Solaris In-Reply-To: References: <3263242b0706080906t76a7d20w6ecb50a95a3dc596@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <22e435080706080949i6f69841r643041fee4cbb1b3@mail.gmail.com> On 08 Jun 2007 12:47:12 -0400, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > "Chris F.A. Johnson" writes: > > On Fri, 8 Jun 2007, Jeff Liu wrote: > > > 1. Looks like compiling source code on Solaris is not an easy job. > > > > Install the GNU gcc/binutils, and it will be the same. > > This site should prove handy in helping you create a useable Solaris > environment: > > http://www.sunfreeware.com/ > > HTH, > Install pkg-get (http://www.bolthole.com/solaris/pkg-get.html), sorta a poor man's apt for solaris. SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 17:29:54 2007 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:29:54 -0400 Subject: Linux vs Solaris In-Reply-To: <3263242b0706080906t76a7d20w6ecb50a95a3dc596-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3263242b0706080906t76a7d20w6ecb50a95a3dc596@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46699212.9090001@gmail.com> I am definitely no expert, but what little I have used Solaris, it is some neat features, but lacking some major essentials! Torvalds is not impressed with the state of Solaris X86, dismissing it as a 'joke' (his words) Jeff Liu wrote: > Hi there, > > I am learning Solaris10 X86 now and find some difference between Linux > and Solaris, however I don't know what's the major difference. So far > what I found include, > > 1. Looks like compiling source code on Solaris is not an easy job. > 2. Some command syntax are different on Solaris. > 3. run level scripts /etc/rc.d/rc.x has been migrated to svc on Solaris. > 4. The way to setup network interfaces is different on Solaris. > > Anything more? Did I miss some major difference? > > Thanks, > Jeff > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 18:10:34 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 14:10:34 -0400 Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <50115.207.188.67.28.1181310733.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50115.207.188.67.28.1181310733.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <46699B9A.6050809@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Here (below) is a typical result from pinging a website. I get a similar > result irrespective of the website. It pings fine for a while and then the > site becomes unreachable. > > This shouldn't be a distance problem, we're less than 1km from the CO - > and the Bell tech who was here said I should be getting something like > 5MB/sec at this location. > This is a routing problem. Try using traceroute, to see how far it gets. > I wonder if the Sympatico service is any better than the other ISPs? You > could then see this as a strategy to drive customers into Bell's embrace. > > Anyway, I'm checking out Rogers: it's about $10 more per month, but > reliable fast service would be worth it. > I'm on Rogers. The service is very reliable and I get 8 Mb/s download. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 18:26:15 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 14:26:15 -0400 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: References: <175243.21906.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <22e435080706060911q468f7a34r72ecf339273f0dd9@mail.gmail.com> <4666EEFE.7020702@ve3syb.ca> <22e435080706061044o463f4229u8bf1bba8c984d0a@mail.gmail.com> <20070606154733.xthzva5cg88k0k40@mail.math.yorku.ca> <1181164825.4956.214.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <46699F47.4010405@ve3syb.ca> John Vetterli wrote: > Maybe manufacturers should start making hard drives with built-in > "Destruct" buttons :) Could be a bad idea. I could just imagine some one writing a Windows based virus that would trigger the built-in destruct of the hard drives. :-) -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 18:29:03 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 18:29:03 +0000 Subject: Linux vs Solaris In-Reply-To: <46699212.9090001-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <3263242b0706080906t76a7d20w6ecb50a95a3dc596@mail.gmail.com> <46699212.9090001@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 6/8/07, Teddy Mills wrote: > > I am definitely no expert, but what little I have used Solaris, it is > some neat features, but lacking > some major essentials! > > Torvalds is not impressed with the state of Solaris X86, dismissing it > as a 'joke' (his words) That's somewhat curious. The things that people have thus far described as "missing" in Solaris are things that, from a "Torvalds perspective," aren't part of Linux at all. Notably, GNU binutils lives in userspace, and isn't part of the project that Linus Torvalds manages. For Torvalds to be critical of "userspace" issues when he isn't involved in userspace for Linux seems richly ironic. As OS kernel, Solaris isn't a joke. There are some things (like zfs, zones) that it does that Linux doesn't do all as well/as easily. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 18:34:27 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 14:34:27 -0400 Subject: Linux vs Solaris In-Reply-To: References: <3263242b0706080906t76a7d20w6ecb50a95a3dc596@mail.gmail.com> <46699212.9090001@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070608183427.GH5067@watson-wilson.ca> On Fri, Jun 08, 2007 at 06:29:03PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: >As OS kernel, Solaris isn't a joke. There are some things (like zfs, >zones) that it does that Linux doesn't do all as well/as easily. It is my understanding that the Solaris kernels for Sparc vs ix86 are quite different both in design and performance. Mind you, I haven't worked with Solaris for some time now. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 36 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 18:39:55 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 14:39:55 -0400 Subject: OT: Disposing Old Computer Parts In-Reply-To: <46699F47.4010405-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <175243.21906.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <22e435080706060911q468f7a34r72ecf339273f0dd9@mail.gmail.com> <4666EEFE.7020702@ve3syb.ca> <22e435080706061044o463f4229u8bf1bba8c984d0a@mail.gmail.com> <20070606154733.xthzva5cg88k0k40@mail.math.yorku.ca> <1181164825.4956.214.camel@stan64.site> <46699F47.4010405@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <4669A27B.7080609@rogers.com> Kevin Cozens wrote: > John Vetterli wrote: >> Maybe manufacturers should start making hard drives with built-in >> "Destruct" buttons :) > > Could be a bad idea. I could just imagine some one writing a Windows > based virus that would trigger the built-in destruct of the hard > drives. :-) > I thought corrupting data was already a Windows "feature". ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jeffliutor-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 18:48:02 2007 From: jeffliutor-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jeff Liu) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 14:48:02 -0400 Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <46699B9A.6050809-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50115.207.188.67.28.1181310733.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <46699B9A.6050809@rogers.com> Message-ID: <3263242b0706081148j6cdfcdedv4c5c12a494d798a9@mail.gmail.com> Rogers is not DSL, it is cable modem link. From a book I read years ago, a possible disadvantage for cable modem is if there are many users in the same neighborhood, the download speed can be slow since downstream is done by broadcasting. I am not so sure about this, it is only some knowledge I get from a book. Jeff On 6/8/07, James Knott wrote: > phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Here (below) is a typical result from pinging a website. I get a similar > > result irrespective of the website. It pings fine for a while and then the > > site becomes unreachable. > > > > This shouldn't be a distance problem, we're less than 1km from the CO - > > and the Bell tech who was here said I should be getting something like > > 5MB/sec at this location. > > > > This is a routing problem. Try using traceroute, to see how far it gets. > > I wonder if the Sympatico service is any better than the other ISPs? You > > could then see this as a strategy to drive customers into Bell's embrace. > > > > Anyway, I'm checking out Rogers: it's about $10 more per month, but > > reliable fast service would be worth it. > > > > I'm on Rogers. The service is very reliable and I get 8 Mb/s download. > > > -- > Use OpenOffice.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 19:02:07 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:02:07 -0400 Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <3263242b0706081148j6cdfcdedv4c5c12a494d798a9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50115.207.188.67.28.1181310733.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <46699B9A.6050809@rogers.com> <3263242b0706081148j6cdfcdedv4c5c12a494d798a9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4669A7AF.9040800@rogers.com> Jeff Liu wrote: > Rogers is not DSL, it is cable modem link. From a book I read years > ago, a possible disadvantage for cable modem is if there are many > users in the same neighborhood, the download speed can be slow since > downstream is done by broadcasting. > > I am not so sure about this, it is only some knowledge I get from a book. > No matter how you get your internet connection, at some point it's shared. While with ADSL, you have a dedicated path to the CO, the line into the DSLAM (Digital Subscriber Line Access Module) shelf is shared. For example, a couple of years ago, I was working on some DSLAMS for Sprint, located in the Bell CO's. They had one 45 Mb/s DS3 shared among (IIRC) 192 ADSL lines. Further, as mentioned earlier, your available bandwidth is distance dependent. That is not the case with cable modems. I get my knowledge from 35 years experience in IT and communications systems. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 21:32:50 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 17:32:50 -0400 Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <3263242b0706081148j6cdfcdedv4c5c12a494d798a9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50115.207.188.67.28.1181310733.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <46699B9A.6050809@rogers.com> <3263242b0706081148j6cdfcdedv4c5c12a494d798a9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070608213250.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 08, 2007 at 02:48:02PM -0400, Jeff Liu wrote: > Rogers is not DSL, it is cable modem link. From a book I read years > ago, a possible disadvantage for cable modem is if there are many > users in the same neighborhood, the download speed can be slow since > downstream is done by broadcasting. > > I am not so sure about this, it is only some knowledge I get from a book. Download speed doesn't seem to be a problem. Upload speed on the other hand is not typically that impresive. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 8 23:41:55 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 19:41:55 -0400 Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <4669A7AF.9040800-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706081148j6cdfcdedv4c5c12a494d798a9@mail.gmail.com> <4669A7AF.9040800@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200706081941.55637.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Friday 08 June 2007 15:02, James Knott wrote: > Jeff Liu wrote: > > Rogers is not DSL, it is cable modem link. From a book I read > > years ago, a possible disadvantage for cable modem is if there > > are many users in the same neighborhood, the download speed can > > be slow since downstream is done by broadcasting. > > > > I am not so sure about this, it is only some knowledge I get from > > a book. > > No matter how you get your internet connection, at some point it's > shared. While with ADSL, you have a dedicated path to the CO, the > line into the DSLAM (Digital Subscriber Line Access Module) shelf > is shared. [snip] This is one of the reasons I find Sympatico ads so offensive. It is an outright lie that Sympatico users do not share bandwidth with their neighbours and I am surprised that the Competition Bureau or some advertising standards council has not called them on it. If they are really offering a dedicated 5Mb/s connection for $30 per month, I would like 20 of those at the colo facility where we have our servers please. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 9 01:11:45 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 21:11:45 -0400 Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <20070608213250.GU10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50115.207.188.67.28.1181310733.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <46699B9A.6050809@rogers.com> <3263242b0706081148j6cdfcdedv4c5c12a494d798a9@mail.gmail.com> <20070608213250.GU10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4669FE51.8020808@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jun 08, 2007 at 02:48:02PM -0400, Jeff Liu wrote: > >> Rogers is not DSL, it is cable modem link. From a book I read years >> ago, a possible disadvantage for cable modem is if there are many >> users in the same neighborhood, the download speed can be slow since >> downstream is done by broadcasting. >> >> I am not so sure about this, it is only some knowledge I get from a book. >> > > Download speed doesn't seem to be a problem. Upload speed on the other > hand is not typically that impresive. > > That applies to both ADSL and cable. While I get 8 Mb down, I only get 800K up. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 9 01:39:28 2007 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 21:39:28 -0400 Subject: if BC can do it why not in Ontario? In-Reply-To: <200706060922.09616.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200706060922.09616.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <200706082139.29005.marc@lijour.net> On June 6, 2007, bob wrote: > http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/05/25/1536219 Thank you for the link Bob. There is a lot of advocacy that could be made with the boards. I know some which refuse to install software obtain for free on their machines because it is free, although this free (0 $) software may be provided by a recognized company such as Intuit Canada. To the province's credit, we have e-learning courses coming up, a learning objects repository and an online learning community. The current platform is maintained by an American company, but it is possible that a Canadian company bid for the contract in the next round... As your story epitomizes, one success story is enough to get people on board. I think the article states clearly the many resistances to change and that people need an opportunity to see a working system in order to begin a cost-benefit analysis. Before that, I agree, there is a need for a measure of "openess" and willingness to assess new solutions. Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 9 03:37:07 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 23:37:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <20070608155057.GS10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20070608155057.GS10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <50404.207.188.67.28.1181360227.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Yesterday, Pathcom (the ISP in this soap-opera) announced that Bell would be visiting to diagnose the problem at my end. Today the Bell Service Guy came by early in the morning, while I was still at home. He didn't knock, he just measured the line, decided it was OK, and put a piece of paper through the door saying 'Sorry I missed you since you weren't home.' And he left an advert for Sympatico, just in case we were keen to switch to someone else. The line dropping problem continues unabated. Time to talk to Rogers, I think. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 9 06:45:38 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 02:45:38 -0400 Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <50404.207.188.67.28.1181360227.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20070608155057.GS10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50404.207.188.67.28.1181360227.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <200706090245.38883.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Friday 08 June 2007 23:37, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Yesterday, Pathcom (the ISP in this soap-opera) announced that Bell > would be visiting to diagnose the problem at my end. > > Today the Bell Service Guy came by early in the morning, while I > was still at home. He didn't knock, he just measured the line, > decided it was OK, and put a piece of paper through the door saying > 'Sorry I missed you since you weren't home.' > > And he left an advert for Sympatico, just in case we were keen to > switch to someone else. That is reprehensible behaviour. No matter what you may think of Pathcom, you should report this incident to them. If I ran Pathcom, I would be quite upset if I *paid* to have Bell show up on my behalf and drop off a flyer exhorting my client to switch. > The line dropping problem continues unabated. You might want to try another DSL provider, such as Teksavvy which I see many people recommending here (I use Rogers). Teksavvy provides a DSL Login service for people who already have DSL service from another provider. See: . There are no setup fees and it will cost you $10/month apparently. I have no idea if they expect you to sign a long-term contract. If the problem goes away, Pathcom is most likely at fault. If it does not, you have another data point. > Time to talk to Rogers, I think. It is a sad state of affairs when the choices we have for broadband Internet access in Canada is based which of the two monopolies you hate the least. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 9 10:37:10 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 06:37:10 -0400 Subject: dont install latest flash plugin Message-ID: It will screw up mozilla or firefox, or whatever. Browser starts to use up to 60% memory on my computer (normally, without it, around 20%), and it crashes often. It crashes on some web pages with flash there or it will crash without a reasonable reason, even left alone. After I removed it, things work normally, again. zb. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 9 11:21:19 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 07:21:19 -0400 Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <50404.207.188.67.28.1181360227.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20070608155057.GS10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50404.207.188.67.28.1181360227.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <466A8D2F.3070301@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Yesterday, Pathcom (the ISP in this soap-opera) announced that Bell would > be visiting to diagnose the problem at my end. > > Today the Bell Service Guy came by early in the morning, while I was > still at home. He didn't knock, he just measured the line, decided > it was OK, and put a piece of paper through the door saying 'Sorry I > missed you since you weren't home.' > Apparently, those Bell guys have never heard of intermittent problems. One of my customers has frequent drop outs on one circuit. Like with you, the Bell guy shows up, does a quick sweep and pronounces the line good, even though I could demonstrate that it was still failing. It takes a *LOT* of pushing from above to get them to move beyond that. At another customer (located in a small town near about 300 Km from here), they were also having intermittent failures on an ISDN line. Since we knew Bell had problems locating suitable pairs, our immediate thought was simply a bad pair between the CO and customer premise. The Bell tech insisted nothing was wrong with the cable and insisted the problem was with our equipment. So, just to prove otherwise, I replaced all the equipment we had installed. The problem was still there. Lots of conference calls followed and I asked Bell to place a test set at the customer site. I was promised this would happen. It didn't. The Bell tech insisted he could do all the testing from his CO, without a test set at the customer site. It got to the point, where my response was "Prove it". All of a sudden we found out it wasn't just a bad cable pair. The circuit went all the way down to another town about 20 Km away and back, through equipment that they already knew was bad and that another customer was complaining about! Once they fixed that, the circuit was fine. Incidentally, I find this sort of problem tends to be unique with Bell. I don't see it happening with Allstream, Telus. Aliant etc. I've even heard a Bell tech complain about it! -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 9 14:50:15 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 10:50:15 -0400 Subject: dont install latest flash plugin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <466ABE27.4070806@ve3syb.ca> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > It will screw up mozilla or firefox, or whatever. What do you consider as the "latest flash plugin"? It would help to have a version number as there are different versions of flash plugin available. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 9 15:51:48 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 11:51:48 -0400 Subject: dont install latest flash plugin In-Reply-To: <466ABE27.4070806-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <466ABE27.4070806@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20070609115148.b997cf07.gstrom@teksavvy.com> On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 10:50:15 -0400 Kevin Cozens wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > It will screw up mozilla or firefox, or whatever. > > What do you consider as the "latest flash plugin"? It would help to > have a version number as there are different versions of flash plugin > available. > I had the same problem with Flash and Firefox. The latest version is 9.0.31.0. When I went back to version 7.0.68 everything was fine. -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 9 16:00:55 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 12:00:55 -0400 Subject: Linux vs Solaris In-Reply-To: <3263242b0706080906t76a7d20w6ecb50a95a3dc596-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3263242b0706080906t76a7d20w6ecb50a95a3dc596@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <466ACEB7.30603@rogers.com> > I don't know what's the major difference > Anything more? Did I miss some major difference? You're on to something here - there really are no major differences as far as I'm concerned. When you come to know one *nix really well, you find there all pretty much the same at heart, just dressed up differently :) Cheers, B -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 9 18:09:19 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 14:09:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <200706090245.38883.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20070608155057.GS10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50404.207.188.67.28.1181360227.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <200706090245.38883.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <50166.207.188.67.28.1181412559.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > >> Today the Bell Service Guy came by early in the morning, while I >> was still at home. He didn't knock, he just measured the line, >> decided it was OK, and put a piece of paper through the door saying >> 'Sorry I missed you since you weren't home.' >> >> And he left an advert for Sympatico, just in case we were keen to >> switch to someone else. > > That is reprehensible behaviour. No matter what you may think of > Pathcom, you should report this incident to them. If I ran Pathcom, I > would be quite upset if I *paid* to have Bell show up on my behalf > and drop off a flyer exhorting my client to switch. The first Bell Guy who was here said that they are paid a bonus for each Sympatico customer they find. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 9 18:25:43 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 18:25:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: dont install latest flash plugin References: <466ABE27.4070806@ve3syb.ca> <20070609115148.b997cf07.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: I confirm the problem with 9.0.31.0. It crashes Firefox at the latest when closing the window. I reverted to the previous version. Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 9 19:30:46 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 15:30:46 -0400 Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <50166.207.188.67.28.1181412559.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <200706090245.38883.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <50166.207.188.67.28.1181412559.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <200706091530.47064.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Saturday 09 June 2007 14:09, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> Today the Bell Service Guy came by early in the morning, while I > >> was still at home. He didn't knock, he just measured the line, > >> decided it was OK, and put a piece of paper through the door > >> saying 'Sorry I missed you since you weren't home.' > >> > >> And he left an advert for Sympatico, just in case we were keen > >> to switch to someone else. > > > > That is reprehensible behaviour. No matter what you may think of > > Pathcom, you should report this incident to them. If I ran > > Pathcom, I would be quite upset if I *paid* to have Bell show up > > on my behalf and drop off a flyer exhorting my client to switch. > > The first Bell Guy who was here said that they are paid a bonus for > each Sympatico customer they find. Even more reprehensible. Bell is clearly in a conflict of interest here. I think Bell pretends their service division and ISP division are separate entities but this clearly is not the the case. I wonder what the Competition Bureau would have to say about this? I know that CAIP members have complained of unfair trade practices by Bell and Rogers in the past. Perhaps they should launch a class-action lawsuit against Bell. We need more options for the last mile so that we can choose our providers on merit, not who has the stranglehold on the last mile connectivity. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 9 19:42:03 2007 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (david thornton) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 20:42:03 +0100 Subject: help with subversion merging In-Reply-To: <20070522173700.GA19930-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070522173700.GA19930@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <466B028B.7080808@quadratic.net> Checks it out: http://gallery.quadratic.net/diagrams/svn_Merge_Examples I wrote my own note to help me get my head around it. David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 9 20:33:20 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 16:33:20 -0400 Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <466A8D2F.3070301-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20070608155057.GS10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50404.207.188.67.28.1181360227.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <466A8D2F.3070301@rogers.com> Message-ID: <466B0E90.3000107@pppoe.ca> James Knott wrote: > phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> Yesterday, Pathcom (the ISP in this soap-opera) announced that Bell would >> be visiting to diagnose the problem at my end. >> >> Today the Bell Service Guy came by early in the morning, while I was >> still at home. He didn't knock, he just measured the line, decided >> it was OK, and put a piece of paper through the door saying 'Sorry I >> missed you since you weren't home.' >> >> > > Apparently, those Bell guys have never heard of intermittent problems. > One of my customers has frequent drop outs on one circuit. Like with > you, the Bell guy shows up, does a quick sweep and pronounces the line > good, even though I could demonstrate that it was still failing. It > takes a *LOT* of pushing from above to get them to move beyond that. At > another customer (located in a small town near about 300 Km from here), > they were also having intermittent failures on an ISDN line. Since we > knew Bell had problems locating suitable pairs, our immediate thought > was simply a bad pair between the CO and customer premise. The Bell > tech insisted nothing was wrong with the cable and insisted the problem > was with our equipment. So, just to prove otherwise, I replaced all the > equipment we had installed. The problem was still there. Lots of > conference calls followed and I asked Bell to place a test set at the > customer site. I was promised this would happen. It didn't. The Bell > tech insisted he could do all the testing from his CO, without a test > set at the customer site. It got to the point, where my response was > "Prove it". All of a sudden we found out it wasn't just a bad cable > pair. The circuit went all the way down to another town about 20 Km > away and back, through equipment that they already knew was bad and that > another customer was complaining about! Once they fixed that, the > circuit was fine. Incidentally, I find this sort of problem tends to be > unique with Bell. I don't see it happening with Allstream, Telus. > Aliant etc. I've even heard a Bell tech complain about it! > This is scary. I'm with Teksavvy and have been experiencing "sluggishness" the past week. I called Teksavvy and went through replacing the telephone cable to the modem and disconnecting the phone to isolate the modem. The tech observed that in 2004, my upload was at 640K and not 800K as at present. She is adjusting my upload back to 640K to see if there is any improvement. I was informed that it may take 48 hours for the change to become apparent. I'll check back with them on Monday. If the change in upload does not resolve the issue, I have these options: a) try another modem b) get Bell to check the last mile I understand that Bell may try to charge me $60 or $100 for testing the line if the last mile is OK. But from what I read on this thread, what Bell says may be misleading, to say the least. c) check my house telephone wiring Do I have any other options or does anyone have any suggestions? My last experience with Bell is last year, when I had them transfer a line from the basement to the 2nd floor. I had no phone service for 5 days (this is downtown Toronto). In the end, I had to reconnect my line at the demarcation point myself. The tech had unplugged his phone/tester and did not connect my line back. Bell insisted that I pay for the moving charge. When I wrote to the VP of Public/Customer Relations, citing relevant sections of the standards that they are supposed to maintain and that I was going to formally complain to the CRTC, they called me and waived the charge. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 9 22:26:31 2007 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David C. Chipman) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 18:26:31 -0400 Subject: dont install latest flash plugin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070609182631.3068ffea@david.chipman> Hi Zbigniew, What is the exact version of Flash you are referring to? I'm using the Flash 9 plug-in wit Firefox, and I'm having no real problems. Ues, It can drive up the resource usage for the web browser, but it's not a big deal. Later, -David Chipman -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 9 23:39:00 2007 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 19:39:00 -0400 Subject: dont install latest flash plugin In-Reply-To: References: <20070609115148.b997cf07.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <200706091939.00496.marc@lijour.net> On June 9, 2007, Peter P. wrote: > I confirm the problem with 9.0.31.0. It crashes Firefox at the latest when > closing the window. I reverted to the previous version. Here latest version 9.0.31.0 works fine (for some time now) on latest Mandriva x86_64. This applies both to konqueror and firefox. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 00:33:20 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 20:33:20 -0400 Subject: dont install latest flash plugin In-Reply-To: <20070609115148.b997cf07.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <466ABE27.4070806@ve3syb.ca> <20070609115148.b997cf07.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <466B46D0.2040305@ve3syb.ca> Glen Strom wrote: > I had the same problem with Flash and Firefox. The latest version is > 9.0.31.0. When I went back to version 7.0.68 everything was fine. I'm running Firefox 1.5.0.12 with Shockwave Flash 9.0 d78 and I haven't noticed any problems. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 02:03:35 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 22:03:35 -0400 Subject: dont install latest flash plugin In-Reply-To: <20070609182631.3068ffea-lQMCrfjKGrJ3Ex1Y5TzZUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070609182631.3068ffea@david.chipman> Message-ID: It is 9 something. Others wrote already and confirmed the problem. I experienced it at work and home, on different versions of Red Hat (I use Centos 5 at home and some older version of Red hat at work) but i do not think that it is a matter what OS is used. zb. On 6/9/07, David C. Chipman wrote: > > Hi Zbigniew, > > What is the exact version of Flash you are referring > to? I'm using the Flash 9 plug-in wit Firefox, and I'm having no > real problems. Ues, It can drive up the resource usage for the web > browser, but it's not a big deal. Later, > > -David Chipman > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 02:21:35 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 22:21:35 -0400 Subject: dont install latest flash plugin In-Reply-To: <200706091939.00496.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070609115148.b997cf07.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <200706091939.00496.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <20070609222135.72d7ab3c@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Marc Lijour left a post-it on the fridge: > On June 9, 2007, Peter P. wrote: > > I confirm the problem with 9.0.31.0. It crashes Firefox at the latest when > > closing the window. I reverted to the previous version. > > Here latest version 9.0.31.0 works fine (for some time now) on latest > Mandriva x86_64. This applies both to konqueror and firefox. Ditto, though not on 64 bit. Flash 9.0.31.0 for me works very reliably, and so I very often have to listen to the unbelievably annoying poppy crap that emanates from the various web sites aimed at pre-teen girls. I really gotta set up a desktop for my daughter. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "Bender, we didn't mind your drinking or your cleptomania or your pornography ring." -Leela "In fact, that's why we love you." -Zoidberg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 03:00:02 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 23:00:02 -0400 Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <466B0E90.3000107-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20070608155057.GS10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50404.207.188.67.28.1181360227.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <466A8D2F.3070301@rogers.com> <466B0E90.3000107@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <466B6932.306@utoronto.ca> Meng Cheah wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> >>> Yesterday, Pathcom (the ISP in this soap-opera) announced that Bell >>> would >>> be visiting to diagnose the problem at my end. >>> >>> Today the Bell Service Guy came by early in the morning, while I was >>> still at home. He didn't knock, he just measured the line, decided >>> it was OK, and put a piece of paper through the door saying 'Sorry I >>> missed you since you weren't home.' >>> >> >> Apparently, those Bell guys have never heard of intermittent problems. >> One of my customers has frequent drop outs on one circuit. Like with >> you, the Bell guy shows up, does a quick sweep and pronounces the line >> good, even though I could demonstrate that it was still failing. It >> takes a *LOT* of pushing from above to get them to move beyond that. At >> another customer (located in a small town near about 300 Km from here), >> they were also having intermittent failures on an ISDN line. Since we >> knew Bell had problems locating suitable pairs, our immediate thought >> was simply a bad pair between the CO and customer premise. The Bell >> tech insisted nothing was wrong with the cable and insisted the problem >> was with our equipment. So, just to prove otherwise, I replaced all the >> equipment we had installed. The problem was still there. Lots of >> conference calls followed and I asked Bell to place a test set at the >> customer site. I was promised this would happen. It didn't. The Bell >> tech insisted he could do all the testing from his CO, without a test >> set at the customer site. It got to the point, where my response was >> "Prove it". All of a sudden we found out it wasn't just a bad cable >> pair. The circuit went all the way down to another town about 20 Km >> away and back, through equipment that they already knew was bad and that >> another customer was complaining about! Once they fixed that, the >> circuit was fine. Incidentally, I find this sort of problem tends to be >> unique with Bell. I don't see it happening with Allstream, Telus. >> Aliant etc. I've even heard a Bell tech complain about it! >> > This is scary. > > I'm with Teksavvy and have been experiencing "sluggishness" the past week. > I called Teksavvy and went through replacing the telephone cable to the > modem and disconnecting the phone to isolate the modem. The tech > observed that in 2004, my upload was at 640K and not 800K as at present. > She is adjusting my upload back to 640K to see if there is any > improvement. I was informed that it may take 48 hours for the change to > become apparent. I'll check back with them on Monday. > > If the change in upload does not resolve the issue, I have these options: > a) try another modem > b) get Bell to check the last mile > I understand that Bell may try to charge me $60 or $100 for testing > the line if the last mile is OK. > But from what I read on this thread, what Bell says may be > misleading, to say the least. > c) check my house telephone wiring > > Do I have any other options or does anyone have any suggestions? I was having an issue last week too, the tech at Teksavvy suggested I try out another line filter on the only phone in my apartment. Turns out he was right, and the $4 it cost me saved time, hassle, and costly Bell misdiagnosis (though the line quality to my place is terrible to start with, I have a good Thomson ADSL modem). > My last experience with Bell is last year, when I had them transfer a > line from the basement to the 2nd floor. I had no phone service for 5 > days (this is downtown Toronto). In the end, I had to reconnect my line > at the demarcation point myself. The tech had unplugged his phone/tester > and did not connect my line back. With DSL you can connect the modem right to the demarc to see if it is internal wiring or a line problem with Bell. Something to try before pitching money at Bell. > Bell insisted that I pay for the moving charge. When I wrote to the VP > of Public/Customer Relations, citing relevant sections of the standards > that they are supposed to maintain and that I was going to formally > complain to the CRTC, they called me and waived the charge. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 04:55:58 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 00:55:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <50115.207.188.67.28.1181310733.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50115.207.188.67.28.1181310733.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: | From: | Here (below) is a typical result from pinging a website. I get a similar | result irrespective of the website. It pings fine for a while and then the | site becomes unreachable. Yuck. A more interesting test is with mtr. It is a traceroute but with more parallelism. Of course there must be something better by now but I'm don't follow this stuff closely. Anyway, that would tell you what links are problematic and some of the nature of the problem (100% lost packets? 50% lost packets? slow packets?). | This shouldn't be a distance problem, we're less than 1km from the CO - | and the Bell tech who was here said I should be getting something like | 5MB/sec at this location. | | I wonder if the Sympatico service is any better than the other ISPs? You | could then see this as a strategy to drive customers into Bell's embrace. Sympatico would not be my first (or second or third) choice. You get treated like an AOLer. I like being able to have a static address, running my own mail server, not having my traffic shaped (i.e. bittorrent throttled) (that's really a Rogers disease at the moment, but Sympatico might catch it). | Anyway, I'm checking out Rogers: it's about $10 more per month, but | reliable fast service would be worth it. I don't recommend Rogers unless you don't mind the afformentioned traffic shaping and port blocking. Oh and the terms of service that ban servers (a thing not well-defined on the internet and thus giving them more arbitrary power). I have Rogers and ADSL. Rogers is fast and mostly reliable, but treat me as a "consumer". With ADSL, I have a bad wire to the CO, but the rest is pretty good. | 64 bytes from 62.41.81.27: icmp_seq=542 ttl=54 time=61.8 ms This latency seems high. With mtr or tracerout output you could tell where the bottleneck is. When I first got ADSL (with a now-defunct but small and cool ISP) I had consistently high latency (about 60ms to get to the first hop). The cause was interleaving of each IP packet when mapped into ATM packets for ADSL transmission. My ISP didn't even know of such a thing. It was finally explained to me by a Bell Labs guy! Just now I found this stuff using google: http://www.wlug.org.nz/Interleaving http://cable-dsl.home.att.net/#Interleaved http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-HOWTO/DSL-HOWTO.html#AEN680 | >From 192.168.7.1 icmp_seq=570 Destination Net Unreachable I am guessing that 192.168.7.1 is your local router's address, on your side of the ADSL link (since it is an RFC 1918 address). As such, this implies that something unsubtle is wrong. Perhaps that the link is down. Perhaps your PPPoE implementation is not logging in reliably. On my ADSL system, the modem is only a modem. The PPPoE crap is implemented on my router which is a Linux box. Actually, lots of routers are Linux boxes. I mean that my router is actually a PC running Red Hat Linux that I have configured to be a router. This has several advantages (I can log into my router and figure out what is going on when it isn't working, very flexible, good logging) and several disadvantages (it isn't a turnkey appliance, it burns more power than a dedicated consumer broadband router). When I got ADSL there were no consumer broadband routers that implemented PPPoE AFAIK. The reason that I'm mentioning this is that my debugging procedures might be different from yours because I have different tools available. Like tcpdump on the raw PPPoE stream, for example. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 07:50:59 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 07:50:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: dont install latest flash plugin References: <20070609115148.b997cf07.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <200706091939.00496.marc@lijour.net> <20070609222135.72d7ab3c@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: JoeHill writes: > Ditto, though not on 64 bit. Flash 9.0.31.0 for me works very reliably, and so What version of FF ? I also use the Flashblock extension so I do not *have* to load down the system with Flash I don't want. Does anyone else use it with 9.0.31.0 ? thanks, Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 08:09:29 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 04:09:29 -0400 Subject: Shuttleworth - what Microsoft is doing is "racketeering" .... Message-ID: <1181462969.4955.55.camel@stan64.site> So I guess my question is, why doesn't someone just charge them (MS/Bill) and be done with it? I must be missing something here, cause as Shut points out, sure looks like an extortion racket. http://mybroadband.co.za/nephp/?m=show&id=6672 -tl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 13:38:59 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Shuttleworth - what Microsoft is doing is "racketeering" .... In-Reply-To: <1181462969.4955.55.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1181462969.4955.55.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <142489.40906.qm@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- tleslie wrote: > So I guess my question is, why doesn't someone just > charge them > (MS/Bill) and be done with it? Remember last time the US took on MS, years of legal battles for diddly. Further what diddly the US did get in concessions from MS, well, MS dumped @#$% all over almost instantly.... Bottom line, before the government goes after MS there is going to have to be a fair bit of political will, which at the moment doesn't seem to be there. For other possibilitiesm look at the SCO vs IBM/SCO vs Novell cases, where you seem to have a decent enough judge who knows that anything he does will be apealed 6^n th different ways. So, you have a judge who is tripple checking that every T is crossed and every i is dotted and then tripple checks everything again (a personal style that I may grumble about but can not fault). Net result, legally perfect judgements rendered at a snails pace (and said judgements are still appealed by SCO, slowing things down further...). If Microsoft wanted a SLOW paced legal cace, do you think things would go faster than the SCO mess? > I must be missing something here, > cause as Shut points out, sure looks like an > extortion racket. > > http://mybroadband.co.za/nephp/?m=show&id=6672 > > -tl Funny thing is, I don't think Microsoft gives a @#$% about the money from Linux firms. In fact I would not be shocked if the bottom line on money in all these argeements is that MS pays $ to Linux firms (that appears to be the case in the Novell agreement at least). The big thing for MS is raw matterial for a FUD factory. If MS convince IT managers that Linux is still a legally risky bet then they can continue move Windows version whatever, plus MS Office verion whatever at absurd prices. That is the real money for MS. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 14:02:38 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 10:02:38 -0400 Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <466B6932.306-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20070608155057.GS10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50404.207.188.67.28.1181360227.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <466A8D2F.3070301@rogers.com> <466B0E90.3000107@pppoe.ca> <466B6932.306@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <466C047E.1000403@pppoe.ca> Jamon Camisso wrote: > With DSL you can connect the modem right to the demarc to see if it is > internal wiring or a line problem with Bell. Something to try before > pitching money at Bell. > Thanks. I was thinking of that myself :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 14:24:18 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 10:24:18 -0400 Subject: dont install latest flash plugin In-Reply-To: References: <20070609115148.b997cf07.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <200706091939.00496.marc@lijour.net> <20070609222135.72d7ab3c@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20070610102418.46f5acae@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Peter P. left a post-it on the fridge: > > Ditto, though not on 64 bit. Flash 9.0.31.0 for me works very reliably, and > > so > > What version of FF ? I also use the Flashblock extension so I do not *have* to > load down the system with Flash I don't want. Does anyone else use it with > 9.0.31.0 ? That's with mozilla-firefox-2.0.0.2, though I'm sure it worked as well with 1.5.0.9. I've begun using Epiphany of late, and that also works well with the Flash plugin. I do not use the Flashblock extension, though that sounds like a great idea. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender to Zoidberg: "You're looking less nuts, crabby." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 14:41:53 2007 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 10:41:53 -0400 Subject: Shuttleworth - what Microsoft is doing is "racketeering" .... In-Reply-To: <142489.40906.qm-57gzaD/7YRGB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1181462969.4955.55.camel@stan64.site> <142489.40906.qm@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <92ee967a0706100741s3f8278fdxe07ff9917e04655a@mail.gmail.com> On 6/10/07, Colin McGregor wrote: ... > Bottom line, before the government goes after MS there > is going to have to be a fair bit of political will, > which at the moment doesn't seem to be there. ... That's where I think things get tricky. From a political standpoint, a politician has to stand up and say "This large U.S. employer has a monopoly and they're abusing it to lock-out competition!" Then they have to have an answer for the obvious response: "Why would we want to damage a U.S. monopoly?" Maybe the whole thing will change when MS outsources everything, and the residents of Redmond keep getting bullied by their former employer from overseas. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 14:58:03 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 10:58:03 -0400 Subject: dont install latest flash plugin In-Reply-To: References: <20070609182631.3068ffea@david.chipman> Message-ID: <1f13df280706100758h19d0358dgf78e8bac39b609a4@mail.gmail.com> On 6/9/07, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > It is 9 something. Others wrote already and confirmed the problem. I experienced it at work and home, on different versions of Red Hat (I use Centos 5 at home and some older version of Red hat at work) but i do not think that it is a matter what OS is used. With Flash, you'll be able to find people to confirm any statement at all: "it works great!" or "it's horrible!" or even "why would you want to look at any website that uses that Flash crap anyway?" will all get equal support. I've had lots of problems with Flash in the past - it frequently caused my browser to crash. At the best it would sometimes show stuff, but I've had months when it would cause browser crashes with no return whatsoever - I believe that was with both v5 and v7. I lived without Flash for months. But I'm eternally hopeful so I kept trying each new version. Right now I have Flash v9.0.31.0.4 running with IceWeasel (aka "Firefox with a different logo for Debian") v2.0.0.3-1 running on Debian testing with kernel 2.6.18-3-k7 with almost no problems. I say "almost" because Firefox will crash every few days if I leave it up 24x7, but FF v2 does that even without Flash (memory leaks, I think). And I had to turn off sound alerts in Gmail - extensive testing with a patient friend proved that his sending me a message in the pager when I was on another virtual desktop was guaranteed to crash Firefox. I think that what it comes down to is that Flash is, indeed, unreliable, and it can cause problems. But living without Flash is extremely annoying, and v7 of Flash doesn't display a lot of new content. I've been unable to determine what mix of software makes Flash happy or unhappy (I would blame Flash for its own unhappiness, not the other software, but either way Flash is a moody bastard). I think the only solution is the pragmatic approach - install it if you want it and watch closely over the next few hours and days, then decide for yourself if the headaches it creates are worth the benefits. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 15:57:34 2007 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 11:57:34 -0400 Subject: Shuttleworth - what Microsoft is doing is "racketeering" .... In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0706100741s3f8278fdxe07ff9917e04655a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <92ee967a0706100741s3f8278fdxe07ff9917e04655a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Jun 2007, Mike Kallies wrote: > On 6/10/07, Colin McGregor wrote: > ... > > Bottom line, before the government goes after MS there > > is going to have to be a fair bit of political will, > > which at the moment doesn't seem to be there. > ... > > That's where I think things get tricky. From a political standpoint, > a politician has to stand up and say "This large U.S. employer has a > monopoly and they're abusing it to lock-out competition!" > > Then they have to have an answer for the obvious response: "Why would > we want to damage a U.S. monopoly?" > > Maybe the whole thing will change when MS outsources everything, and > the residents of Redmond keep getting bullied by their former employer > from overseas. Today's NY times seems to have a related article: Microsoft Finds Legal Defender in Justice Dept. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/10/business/10microsoft.html?_r=1&hp&oref=sloginhttp://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/10/business/10microsoft.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin Alex > > -Mike > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 16:36:48 2007 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (david thornton) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 17:36:48 +0100 Subject: getting data out: mysql -> csv In-Reply-To: <465C8CF9.9010505-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <465C8CF9.9010505@xtrinsic.com> Message-ID: <466C28A0.7050000@quadratic.net> Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > Good afternoon, > > I'm in the process of trying to yank content out of one CMS and into > another CMS. The import function on the new CMS requires that the data > be in a CSV. This should be 'easy'... except the data contains new > lines and tabs (apparently) because each time I try to export the > data, it doesn't play nicely as a CSV. > > I've tried googling "mysql export csv" and found the following: > http://forums.mysql.com/read.php?79,11324,13062#msg-13062 > I don't have the select into outfile flag > and > http://tlug.dnho.net/?q=node/209 > The explanation of the sed cleanup is wrong, I know. > > In the first option there is a follow-up question which is exactly the > same as mine... "what if there are characters in the data which are > the same characters that are to be used as delimiters?" I've asked the > techs to enable the "select into outfile" option for me.. but in the > mean time, my question remains: how do you get HTML fragments > (especially when there are new lines, tabs and quotes as part of the > data) out of a MySQL table and into a CSV? > > > regards, > emma > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists I just found an interesting perl module called SQL::Translate. Doesn't just do SQL. http://search.cpan.org/~jrobinson/SQL-Translator-0.08/lib/SQL/Translator.pm David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 16:43:48 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:43:48 -0400 Subject: Shuttleworth - what Microsoft is doing is "racketeering" .... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <466C2A44.4020404@rogers.com> Goddamn folks, how long are people to bitch about Microsoft without doing something about it? We all know they're douchebags... either hack them, firebomb their offices or something... or stop talking about them. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 18:15:00 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:15:00 -0400 Subject: Shuttleworth - what Microsoft is doing is "racketeering" .... In-Reply-To: <466C2A44.4020404-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <466C2A44.4020404@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1181499300.4955.82.camel@stan64.site> I agree, if i get some time: 1) send letter to law enforcement in Canada, asking them if head of MS Canada can be arrested for racketeering. 2) answer will be no, maybe because its a US "thing", 3) then I ask, will Balmer/Gate be arrested if they come to Canada? 4) answer will be no (for some reason) 5) then I will ask, so if i buy a bunch of patents (cheap almost out of date) and threaten IBM, RIM and such in Canada, and say, I will sue them out of business, but not say why, will they be ok with that? 6) then see if shorting the stock (mixed with 5) would be allowed, and then use this to make some coin on the side. I guess this is the if you can't beat them join them alternative :) -tl On Sun, 2007-06-10 at 12:43 -0400, Byron Sonne wrote: > Goddamn folks, how long are people to bitch about Microsoft without > doing something about it? We all know they're douchebags... either hack > them, firebomb their offices or something... or stop talking about them. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 19:40:41 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 15:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Firefox bugs [was: Re:dont install latest flash plugin] In-Reply-To: <1f13df280706100758h19d0358dgf78e8bac39b609a4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070609182631.3068ffea@david.chipman> <1f13df280706100758h19d0358dgf78e8bac39b609a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Giles Orr | I say "almost" because Firefox will crash every few days if | I leave it up 24x7, but FF v2 does that even without Flash (memory | leaks, I think). And I had to turn off sound alerts in Gmail - | extensive testing with a patient friend proved that his sending me a | message in the pager when I was on another virtual desktop was | guaranteed to crash Firefox. Firefox does have serious bugs. They probably won't get fixed without them being reported. One I experience once in a while is this: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=263160 It causes Firefox the exit unexpectedly (technically it isn't a crash). It is hard to reproduce and so maintainers are not getting much traction on it. If you have a bug that causes Firefox to crash reproduceably, by all means report it. It may be a version of an already reported bug. In any case you may have something valuable to contribute. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 19:53:17 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 15:53:17 -0400 Subject: Firefox bugs [was: Re:dont install latest flash plugin] In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df280706100758h19d0358dgf78e8bac39b609a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200706101553.17655.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Sunday 10 June 2007 15:40, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Giles Orr > | > | I say "almost" because Firefox will crash every few days if > | I leave it up 24x7, but FF v2 does that even without Flash > | (memory leaks, I think). And I had to turn off sound alerts in > | Gmail - extensive testing with a patient friend proved that his > | sending me a message in the pager when I was on another virtual > | desktop was guaranteed to crash Firefox. > > Firefox does have serious bugs. They probably won't get fixed > without them being reported. > > One I experience once in a while is this: > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=263160 > It causes Firefox the exit unexpectedly (technically it isn't a > crash). > > It is hard to reproduce and so maintainers are not getting much > traction on it. > > If you have a bug that causes Firefox to crash reproduceably, by > all means report it. It may be a version of an already reported > bug. In any case you may have something valuable to contribute. Firefox 2 "disappears" frequently on my machine and quite often, I do not even notice until I try to use it and see that it is no longer running. I have not noticed any discernible pattern for when this happens. It could have something to do with one of the extensions. I notice that my bookmarks sidebar is now grey so if I want to access my bookmarks, I have to open up the editor. I stopped adding new bookmarks to any of my browsers months ago and started using Mag.nolia.com and have been generally happy with that so not being able to access my local bookmarks is just an annoyance I have to deal with when I want to access my "legacy" bookmarks. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 19:59:59 2007 From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 15:59:59 -0400 Subject: Firefox bugs [was: Re:dont install latest flash plugin] In-Reply-To: References: <20070609182631.3068ffea@david.chipman> <1f13df280706100758h19d0358dgf78e8bac39b609a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <466C583F.8000100@iprimus.ca> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Giles Orr > > | I say "almost" because Firefox will crash every few days if > | I leave it up 24x7, but FF v2 does that even without Flash (memory > | leaks, I think). And I had to turn off sound alerts in Gmail - > | extensive testing with a patient friend proved that his sending me a > | message in the pager when I was on another virtual desktop was > | guaranteed to crash Firefox. > > Firefox does have serious bugs. They probably won't get fixed without > them being reported. > > One I experience once in a while is this: > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=263160 > It causes Firefox the exit unexpectedly (technically it isn't a > crash). > > It is hard to reproduce and so maintainers are not getting much > traction on it. > > If you have a bug that causes Firefox to crash reproduceably, by all > means report it. It may be a version of an already reported bug. In > any case you may have something valuable to contribute. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > I have had some experience with FF bugs which seem to get fixed as they send out upgrades (in my opinion anyway). My biggest problem is with Thunderbird 1.5.0 which right up to 1.5.0.9, the program freezes and crashes when I try to save an attachment to a folder on my network via Samba. I have a Mandriva Linux box and 2 Win XP boxes on the network -- Clive DaSilva CMA Tel : 416-421-2480 Cell: 416-560-8820 Mandriva Linux LE 2006 kernel-2.6.12_12mdk -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 20:29:50 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 16:29:50 -0400 Subject: Firefox bugs [was: Re:dont install latest flash plugin] In-Reply-To: <466C583F.8000100-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070609182631.3068ffea@david.chipman> <1f13df280706100758h19d0358dgf78e8bac39b609a4@mail.gmail.com> <466C583F.8000100@iprimus.ca> Message-ID: <466C5F3E.7060200@utoronto.ca> Clive DaSilva wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> | From: Giles Orr >> >> | I say "almost" because Firefox will crash every few days if >> | I leave it up 24x7, but FF v2 does that even without Flash (memory >> | leaks, I think). And I had to turn off sound alerts in Gmail - >> | extensive testing with a patient friend proved that his sending me a >> | message in the pager when I was on another virtual desktop was >> | guaranteed to crash Firefox. >> >> Firefox does have serious bugs. They probably won't get fixed without >> them being reported. >> >> One I experience once in a while is this: >> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=263160 >> It causes Firefox the exit unexpectedly (technically it isn't a >> crash). >> >> It is hard to reproduce and so maintainers are not getting much >> traction on it. >> >> If you have a bug that causes Firefox to crash reproduceably, by all >> means report it. It may be a version of an already reported bug. In >> any case you may have something valuable to contribute. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> >> > I have had some experience with FF bugs which seem to get fixed as they > send out upgrades (in my opinion anyway). My biggest problem is with > Thunderbird 1.5.0 which right up to 1.5.0.9, the program freezes and > crashes when I try to save an attachment to a folder on my network via > Samba. I have a Mandriva Linux box and 2 Win XP boxes on the network > Try Thunderbird 2.0. http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/thunderbird/ Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 20:37:09 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 16:37:09 -0400 Subject: Wiki Defacement Message-ID: We've been seeing a lot of defacement on the wiki lately; people adding in pages of links to typical sorts of spam things (medicines and such). We could use more people patrolling things periodically... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 21:02:00 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 17:02:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Firefox bugs [was: Re:dont install latest flash plugin] In-Reply-To: References: <20070609182631.3068ffea@david.chipman> <1f13df280706100758h19d0358dgf78e8bac39b609a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | If you have a bug that causes Firefox to crash reproduceably, by all | means report it. Sorry if this wasn't clear. Please report it to bugzilla.mozilla.org Messages here are fine too. But not instead of reporting it to their bugzilla. I often report Fedora bugs on the Redhat bugzilla AND on the Fedora mailinglist. Sometimes I report on the list first so that I might get an early warning of bone-headedness. Sometimes first on the bugzilla so that I can include a pointer to that report in my list message. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 10 23:40:54 2007 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 19:40:54 -0400 Subject: dont install latest flash plugin In-Reply-To: References: <20070609222135.72d7ab3c@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <200706101940.54753.marc@lijour.net> On June 10, 2007, Peter P. wrote: > What version of FF ? I also use the Flashblock extension so I do not *have* > to load down the system with Flash I don't want. Does anyone else use it > with 9.0.31.0 ? mozilla-firefox-2.0.0.3-2mdv2007.1 konqueror 3.5.6 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 02:18:59 2007 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 22:18:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Wiki Defacement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Jun 2007, Christopher Browne wrote: > We've been seeing a lot of defacement on the wiki > lately; people adding in pages of links to typical sorts of spam > things (medicines and such). We could use more people patrolling > things periodically... Thanks for the heads-up Chris. I just spent 30 minutes reverting vandalism/spam. A spammer is still lurking around as they tried to add a few while I was reverting. I'll definitely try to keep more of an eye on the site and I'll encourage others to as well. IIRC the Mediawiki software has a facility for account creation to require authorisation. Should we enable this? Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 02:22:12 2007 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 22:22:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Pegasoft Web site ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20070604162605.0fef15bc-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20070604162605.0fef15bc@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Jun 2007, James McIntosh wrote: > Today, I was unable to find Ken's article, and also unable to find the > Pegasoft Web site itself. > > Does this mean that the Pegasoft Web site is dead - or is it merely down > for maintenance ? > > Has Ken written any articles since February ? > > I also want to express my thanks to David J. Patrick of the Linux Caffe, > for his confirmation that the Web site was inaccessible today. A late reply :) Ken reported about a week ago that his web server was dead. He ordered a new M/B but apparently the store provided the wrong one. Last I heard Ken was trying to swap in a motherboard from another box. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 02:02:29 2007 From: myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles A. Braithwaite) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 22:02:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Wiki Defacement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8189337.11181527349823.JavaMail.root@mail> It might be a good idea to also disable RSS feeds if no one uses them. ----- "Robert Brockway" wrote: > On Sun, 10 Jun 2007, Christopher Browne wrote: > > > We've been seeing a lot of defacement on the wiki > > > lately; people adding in pages of links to typical sorts of spam > > things (medicines and such). We could use more people patrolling > > things periodically... > > Thanks for the heads-up Chris. I just spent 30 minutes reverting > vandalism/spam. A spammer is still lurking around as they tried to > add a > few while I was reverting. I'll definitely try to keep more of an eye > on > the site and I'll encourage others to as well. > > IIRC the Mediawiki software has a facility for account creation to > require > authorisation. Should we enable this? > > Rob > > -- > "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." > -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Myles A. Braithwaite Monkey in your Soul myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 02:49:05 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 22:49:05 -0400 Subject: Wiki Defacement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <466CB821.1030007@utoronto.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sun, 10 Jun 2007, Christopher Browne wrote: > >> We've been seeing a lot of defacement on the wiki >> lately; people adding in pages of links to typical sorts of spam >> things (medicines and such). We could use more people patrolling >> things periodically... > > Thanks for the heads-up Chris. I just spent 30 minutes reverting > vandalism/spam. A spammer is still lurking around as they tried to add > a few while I was reverting. I'll definitely try to keep more of an eye > on the site and I'll encourage others to as well. > > IIRC the Mediawiki software has a facility for account creation to > require authorisation. Should we enable this? Some spam bots create a new account for every edit. I hear good things the ConfirmEdit captcha: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmEdit Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 03:41:59 2007 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:41:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Wiki Defacement In-Reply-To: <466CB821.1030007-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <466CB821.1030007@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Jun 2007, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Some spam bots create a new account for every edit. I hear good things the > ConfirmEdit captcha: This spammer is creating a new account for almost every edit. I don't think it is a bot for a couple of reasons: 1. They seem to be doing intelligent test edits to see if we'll notice. Eg, they changed C to C++ in someone's bio. 2. They are way too slow. I'm reverting faster than they are adding. There is no way I could keep up with a bot going full speed. > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmEdit Looks interesting. We'd need to upgrade the version of Mediawiki in use. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 03:49:40 2007 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:49:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Wiki Defacement In-Reply-To: References: <466CB821.1030007@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Jun 2007, Robert Brockway wrote: > 1. They seem to be doing intelligent test edits to see if we'll notice. Eg, > they changed C to C++ in someone's bio. > > 2. They are way too slow. I'm reverting faster than they are adding. > There is no way I could keep up with a bot going full speed. 3. Because they backoff when I start reverting their edits. They are still active so I hope others are looking at the 'Recent Changes' too. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 04:12:17 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 00:12:17 -0400 Subject: Wiki Defacement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200706110012.17625.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Sunday 10 June 2007 23:49, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sun, 10 Jun 2007, Robert Brockway wrote: > > 1. They seem to be doing intelligent test edits to see if we'll > > notice. Eg, they changed C to C++ in someone's bio. > > > > 2. They are way too slow. I'm reverting faster than they are > > adding. There is no way I could keep up with a bot going full > > speed. > > 3. Because they backoff when I start reverting their edits. > > They are still active so I hope others are looking at the 'Recent > Changes' too. I will bet this is "PoorNet" posted spam. See: . -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 11:52:08 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:52:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: dont install latest flash plugin References: <20070609115148.b997cf07.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <200706091939.00496.marc@lijour.net> <20070609222135.72d7ab3c@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: I did some more testing, and the plugin seems to be ok. Results: - FF 1.5.x crashes with Flash 9 - FF 2.0 crashes with Flash 9 - Opera works great with Flash 9 So the problem is not the plugin itself but something more subtle (but what ?). Any clues may be welcome. Feel free to brainstorm. thanks, Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 12:48:19 2007 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 08:48:19 -0400 Subject: Computer Parts / Systems Free To A Good Home In-Reply-To: <46670830.8030206-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <46670830.8030206@golden.net> Message-ID: <466D4493.5000209@golden.net> John Myshrall wrote: > As I've done before, I have accumulated some stuff over the last > couple years and I have to get rid of it. My boss (aka wifie ;-) ) is > quite explicit about this being done soon or else. > > 1) Sempron 900 processor, 256 mb ram, Sound, NIC and NVIdia Gforce4 64 > mb AGP video, 8 GB HD and CD burner and hardware ISA modem 15 inch > monitor. Was running Linux perfectly ........................ long > story Win98 SE on it now. > 2) K62 500 in pieces, HD and CDROM, S3 AGP 64 mb, NIC, 15 Monitor > > 3 ) Variety of memory modules, Simm, dim, SDRAM, processors (mostly > pentium), 2 video cards pci and agp, 2 modems > > Anyone interested in some or all ? I am willing to deliver (GTA only) > if necessary however I'll need a really good Sad Sack story to do > this. ie Aliens stole my car etc ........ > > Please e-mail off the list. Offer closes this Saturday @23:59. > John > Vince Fry gets it's all. Vince contact me off line. Thanks John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 13:05:30 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: FW:Shuttleworth - what Microsoft is doing is "racketeering" .... In-Reply-To: <007501c7abbe$3f48cca0$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <007501c7abbe$3f48cca0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <748898.95467.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > Goddamn folks, how long are people to bitch about > Microsoft without > > doing something about it? We all know they're > douchebags... either hack > > them, firebomb their offices or something... or > stop talking about them. > > Given that we live in a different world now (post > 9/11) can someone step in > and remind people that instigating someone to > firebomb someone's office can > get you gitmo'd? Agreed! Look folks, much as I dislike MS, suggesting illegal acts is on every level stupid and insane. I have doubts about the value/effectiveness of peacefully picketing Microsoft events, but if someone here wants to do that I will not try to stop them. Same thing with doing things like sending letters to MPs regarding Microsoft's behaviour, again fine with me. If it is done within the letter of various laws/regulations I have no real problem (other than questioning the value) with people putting up anti-Microsoft posters, etc.. There are a large number of ways to express displeasure with Microsoft without going outside the letter of the law... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 13:38:28 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:38:28 -0400 Subject: dont install latest flash plugin In-Reply-To: References: <20070609115148.b997cf07.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <200706091939.00496.marc@lijour.net> <20070609222135.72d7ab3c@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20070611093828.0b332108.gstrom@teksavvy.com> On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:52:08 +0000 (UTC) Peter P. wrote: > I did some more testing, and the plugin seems to be ok. Results: > > - FF 1.5.x crashes with Flash 9 > - FF 2.0 crashes with Flash 9 > - Opera works great with Flash 9 > > So the problem is not the plugin itself but something more subtle > (but what ?). > > Any clues may be welcome. Feel free to brainstorm. > I did a quick Google search and found this possible fix at the Puppy Linux Forum. I haven't had time to try it, so I don't know if it works. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=98933 -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 13:47:22 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:47:22 -0400 Subject: FW:Shuttleworth - what Microsoft is doing is "racketeering" .... In-Reply-To: <748898.95467.qm-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <748898.95467.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <466D526A.7020100@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > Agreed! > > Look folks, much as I dislike MS, suggesting illegal > acts is on every level stupid and insane. > > I have doubts about the value/effectiveness of > peacefully picketing Microsoft events, but if someone > here wants to do that I will not try to stop them. > Same thing with doing things like sending letters to > MPs regarding Microsoft's behaviour, again fine with > me. If it is done within the letter of various > laws/regulations I have no real problem (other than > questioning the value) with people putting up > anti-Microsoft posters, etc.. There are a large number > of ways to express displeasure with Microsoft without > going outside the letter of the law... > > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > There was a message here, not to long ago IIRC, about a request for comments on Canada's positition re: open file standards vs MS OOXML wrt ISO standards. This would be a good way to express your opinion. Perhaps a CC to your MP wouldn't hurt. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 14:13:18 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:13:18 -0400 Subject: FW:Shuttleworth - what Microsoft is doing is "racketeering" .... In-Reply-To: <748898.95467.qm-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <748898.95467.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <466D587E.7010703@rogers.com> > Look folks, much as I dislike MS, suggesting illegal > acts is on every level stupid and insane. Wah :) It's also illegal to put change in someone else's parking meter when their time is up. Illegal doesn't mean morally wrong. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 14:29:33 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:29:33 -0400 Subject: FW:Shuttleworth - what Microsoft is doing is "racketeering" .... In-Reply-To: <466D526A.7020100-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <748898.95467.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <466D526A.7020100@rogers.com> Message-ID: <466D5C4D.5070803@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: >> Agreed! >> >> Look folks, much as I dislike MS, suggesting illegal >> acts is on every level stupid and insane. >> >> I have doubts about the value/effectiveness of >> peacefully picketing Microsoft events, but if someone >> here wants to do that I will not try to stop them. >> Same thing with doing things like sending letters to >> MPs regarding Microsoft's behaviour, again fine with >> me. If it is done within the letter of various >> laws/regulations I have no real problem (other than >> questioning the value) with people putting up >> anti-Microsoft posters, etc.. There are a large number >> of ways to express displeasure with Microsoft without >> going outside the letter of the law... >> >> >> Colin McGregor >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > There was a message here, not to long ago IIRC, about a request for > comments on Canada's positition re: open file standards vs MS OOXML > wrt ISO standards. This would be a good way to express your opinion. > Perhaps a CC to your MP wouldn't hurt. > > Here's the link for Canadian comments https://forums.scc.ca/forums/scc/dispatch.cgi/public/docProfile/100009/d20070501143554/No/t100009.htm -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 14:40:26 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:40:26 -0400 Subject: FW:Shuttleworth - what Microsoft is doing is "racketeering" .... In-Reply-To: <748898.95467.qm-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <748898.95467.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <466D5EDA.4060709@telly.org> Colin McGregor wrote: > Look folks, much as I dislike MS, suggesting illegal > acts is on every level stupid and insane. > ... except that when Microsoft does them, it gets friends in the US Justice Department to come to their assistance, even when they're found in court to have done illegal acts. IOW, Microsoft is not above breaking the law to hi8rt its opponents. Having said that, it's critical that we not be seen to be stooping to their level. > There are a large number of ways to express displeasure with Microsoft without going outside the letter of the law... > Exactly. The goal should be to exploit the source of that displeasure, not duplicate it. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 14:42:01 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:42:01 -0400 Subject: FW:Shuttleworth - what Microsoft is doing is "racketeering" .... In-Reply-To: <748898.95467.qm-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <007501c7abbe$3f48cca0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <748898.95467.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0706110742n12a24400ua604051f9b77813c@mail.gmail.com> On 6/11/07, Colin McGregor wrote: > --- Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > > Goddamn folks, how long are people to bitch about > > Microsoft without > > > doing something about it? We all know they're > > douchebags... either hack > > > them, firebomb their offices or something... or > > stop talking about them. > > > > Given that we live in a different world now (post > > 9/11) can someone step in > > and remind people that instigating someone to > > firebomb someone's office can > > get you gitmo'd? > > Agreed! > > Look folks, much as I dislike MS, suggesting illegal > acts is on every level stupid and insane. > > I have doubts about the value/effectiveness of > peacefully picketing Microsoft events, but if someone > here wants to do that I will not try to stop them. > Same thing with doing things like sending letters to > MPs regarding Microsoft's behaviour, again fine with > me. If it is done within the letter of various > laws/regulations I have no real problem (other than > questioning the value) with people putting up > anti-Microsoft posters, etc.. There are a large number > of ways to express displeasure with Microsoft without > going outside the letter of the law... > Even better than going outside the letter of the law would be intentionally staying within it. If we act like responsible concerned citizens, we'll have much greater impact. I truly believe that the more support CLUE receives from LUG's and their members - from here and across Canada - the better; our cumulative voice needs to become loud and clear. While this doesn't speak directly to the M$ issue, I think the following is an avenue we could clearly pursue. In the long run, and with much effort, perhaps M$ could eventually be forced to come sit at a table with us. "CLUE will identify the political issues of importance to its membership, and then work to advance its members' perspective to policy makers in both the private and public sectors as well as the news media. While identifying the appropriate people and organizations to which our message should be conveyed, we will work with our community to develop policy positions that are sound, factual, and relevant." http://www.cluecan.ca/advocacy -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 14:51:20 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:51:20 +0000 Subject: FW:Shuttleworth - what Microsoft is doing is "racketeering" .... In-Reply-To: <466D587E.7010703-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <748898.95467.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <466D587E.7010703@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 6/11/07, Byron Sonne wrote: > > Look folks, much as I dislike MS, suggesting illegal > > acts is on every level stupid and insane. > > Wah :) It's also illegal to put change in someone else's parking meter > when their time is up. Illegal doesn't mean morally wrong. Nobody was talking about "filling parking meters." Under pretty much any of the historical legal codes, from Hammurabi to the Ten Commandments to the "Code Napoleon," firebombing would be recognized as "vigorously wrong." I'm a fair bit surprised that some disgruntled person that has lost their job at Microsoft due to (say) their work being outsourced to India hasn't, "in the Land where there's no 5 day wait to buy rifles," taken a shot at Bill. The only shots that *have* been taken have been with pies, which, while formally definable as "assault," under the law, have only temporarily injured Bill's pride. But the discussion wasn't about anything that harmless. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 16:43:04 2007 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:43:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <200706090245.38883.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20070608155057.GS10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50404.207.188.67.28.1181360227.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <200706090245.38883.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Jun 2007, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > It is a sad state of affairs when the choices we have for broadband > Internet access in Canada is based which of the two monopolies you > hate the least. Canada _needs_ a Telecommunications Ombudsman. Australia, New Zealand, the US and UK all have one. http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/site/oca-bc.nsf/en/ca01928e.html#3 The project listed above is now close I think. Not sure if Canada is any closer to having an TIO. Note: the CRTC doesn't count as it doesn't have the jurisdiction over Internet traffic that is primarily alphanumeric (eek, what a demarcation line). Several times back in Australia I had problems with ISPs and Telcos. I had proven the problem was at their end but they were intransient. In each case I gave the company time to resolve the problem and when they didn't I mentioned the TIO. So far I'm yet to have to make a complaint to the TIO in Australia. Merely mentioning the option resolves the problem quickly. Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 12:58:34 2007 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:58:34 Subject: "Lone Coder" - AdTI, funded by Microsoft, denies that Linus Torvalds was the "lone coder" inventor of Linux ! Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20070611125834.582ff82c@mail.look.ca> "Lone Coder" - AdTI, funded by Microsoft, denies that Linus Torvalds was the "lone coder" inventor of Linux ! http://www.cbronline.com/article_cbr.asp?guid=F8EBD1F4-A2AE-4A24-BF1A-0F70CA 8737CA Computer Business Review Online ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Analysis: Whose Linux Is It Anyway? 1st June 2004 By Matthew Aslett Controversy continues to surround the Linux operating system as a mysterious think tank has claimed that Linus Torvalds did not write it. Matthew Aslett attempts to discover the truth. You can forget about whether the Linux operating system contains SCO Group's Unix code, the big question for this month is exactly who invented Linux, according to the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution (AdTI). The controversial AdTI has released excerpts from a forthcoming book by AdTI president Kenneth Brown that it says "directly challenges Linus Torvalds' claim to be the inventor of Linux." It says that the study is based on extensive interviews with leading technologists including the founder of the GNU project, Richard Stallman, one of the originators of Unix, Dennis Ritchie, and writer and Minix Unix clone creator Andrew Tanenbaum. Torvalds has responded in his own inimitable style. In a posting to the LinuxWorld site he wrote: "OK, I admit it. I was just a front man for the real fathers of Linux, the tooth fairy and Santa Claus. They (for obvious reasons) couldn't step forward to admit that they had gotten bitten by the computer bug, and had been developing a series of operating systems on their own during the off season." "They started to look for a front man," he continued, "and since Santa Claus is from Finland and thus has connections to Helsinki University, and the tooth fairy claimed 'He's got good strong teeth,' I got selected." While many in the open source community may have taken AdTI's claims for a joke, in an interview with CBR, Brown appeared deadly serious. He said that his research had thrown up doubts about how quickly the kernel was written, Torvalds' own experience of operating system design, and a lack of attribution for Minix. "His experience is certainly questionable," said Brown. "It just doesn't seem right. The Unix kernel was written in over three years. He claims to have written it [Linux] in less than six months." Brown maintained that there could be attribution or copyright problems in the operating system kernel. "There has been no credit of attribution to Prentice Hall [the publishers of Minix]," he said. "It's questionable in my opinion if the kernel is a derivative product of someone else's product." The lone coder explanation has become the accepted version of the early Linux kernel development process, but Brown maintains there were other coders on the grassy knoll whose stories had gone 'unreported' in favour of Torvalds' claim to have created Linux from scratch. "Starting from scratch means you started with nothing, he did not do that. To me it's un-debatable that Prentice Hall has lost out." Andrew Tanenbaum, now professor of computer science at Vrije University, Amsterdam, is not convinced, however. "Scientifically it's nice to give credit to your sources, but there's no intellectual property problems. Nobody stole it from them [Prentice Hall]," he told CBR. "Yes he had Minix, there's a lot of traces of Minix in Linux," he continued. "He's not violating any intellectual property rights, the source code is available. He didn't even copy Minix, which I criticised him for," added Tanenbaum, referring to a famous Usenet argument between the two in 1992. It is certainly no secret that Torvalds' development of Linux began as a clone of Minix, the Unix clone designed by Tanenbaum for educational purposes. Torvalds' initial announcement of Linux in August 1991 was addressed to Minix users on a Minix newsgroup and noted that they shared a resemblance, specifically in the physical layout of the file-system. It is also worth noting that while Torvalds may have written the 0.01 version of the Linux kernel himself, as well as the 0.10 follow-up released in September 1991, as early as version 0.11 (December 1991) he had already begun the process of accepting contributions from other enthusiasts that would rapidly increase the rate of Linux's development. Tanenbaum added that he met Brown on 23 March and told him that it was perfectly plausible that Torvalds wrote the original Linux kernal on his own. "It had already been done by four or five individuals," Tanenbaum told CBR, counting himself among those who had written a Unix clone kernel, along with Ken Thompson, who had done much of the early work on Unix alone. "The fifth time around it isn't that difficult when there's four others out there." Tanenbaum said he was surprised by Brown's lack of understanding of the history of Linux and Unix. "He didn't have any answers," he said. "I began asking 'who's behind this, who's funding the book?' It seemed very suspicious to start with." It is not the first time that the AdTI has provoked the open source community. In June 2002 it published a white paper arguing open sourcing of source code leaves users vulnerable to terrorist attack, a report that was lampooned by the open source community and discredited after Wired quoted a Microsoft spokesperson confirming that it had provided funding to AdTI. ?2007 Computer Business Review & CBRonline.com James ('Jim') E. McIntosh 416-292-8126 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 20:15:53 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 16:15:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: "Lone Coder" - AdTI, funded by Microsoft, denies that Linus Torvalds was the "lone coder" inventor of Linux ! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20070611125834.582ff82c-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20070611125834.582ff82c@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Jun 2007, James McIntosh wrote: > "Lone Coder" - AdTI, funded by Microsoft, denies that Linus Torvalds was > the "lone coder" inventor of Linux ! > > http://www.cbronline.com/article_cbr.asp?guid=F8EBD1F4-A2AE-4A24-BF1A-0F70CA > 8737CA > > Computer Business Review Online > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > Analysis: Whose Linux Is It Anyway? > 1st June 2004 That's ancient history. -- Chris F.A. Johnson ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 21:14:04 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:14:04 -0400 Subject: "Lone Coder" - AdTI, funded by Microsoft, denies that Linus Torvalds was the "lone coder" inventor of Linux ! In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20070611125834.582ff82c@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0706111414m381d1014x1e80059384a926bf@mail.gmail.com> On 6/11/07, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Mon, 11 Jun 2007, James McIntosh wrote: > > > "Lone Coder" - AdTI, funded by Microsoft, denies that Linus Torvalds was > > the "lone coder" inventor of Linux ! > > > > http://www.cbronline.com/article_cbr.asp?guid=F8EBD1F4-A2AE-4A24-BF1A-0F70CA > > 8737CA > > > > Computer Business Review Online > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > > Analysis: Whose Linux Is It Anyway? > > 1st June 2004 > > That's ancient history. Indeed it is - at least as we count ancient nowadays. But just to point out the (er - what I'd hope to be) obvious though, historical obeservations/refreshers' are useful; particularly to those struggling to understand where "we" come from. -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 21:30:00 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:30:00 -0400 Subject: Hilarious Typo's [Was:"Lone Coder" - AdTI, funded by Microsoft...] Message-ID: <99a6c38f0706111430o5cc929bdkff788ad09fa6ed87@mail.gmail.com> Ok, After re-reading this post I just couldn't help myself. I made one of those wonderfully funny Freudian-slip-type-typo's today. Or at least, I think so: "> historical obeservations/refreshers' are useful;" That was not supposed to have any bearing on the recent North American attention to the word "obese." Interesting though that I could easily connect such a statement to previous TLUG conversations on the value of RAD tools... and to my own plans for Atomic OS. Anyway, anyone else have funnies that they accidentally posted online? Take care, all. =) On 6/11/07, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 6/11/07, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > On Mon, 11 Jun 2007, James McIntosh wrote: > > > > > "Lone Coder" - AdTI, funded by Microsoft, denies that Linus Torvalds was > > > the "lone coder" inventor of Linux ! > > > > > > http://www.cbronline.com/article_cbr.asp?guid=F8EBD1F4-A2AE-4A24-BF1A-0F70CA > > > 8737CA > > > > > > Computer Business Review Online > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ---- > > > Analysis: Whose Linux Is It Anyway? > > > 1st June 2004 > > > > That's ancient history. > > Indeed it is - at least as we count ancient nowadays. > > But just to point out the (er - what I'd hope to be) obvious though, > historical obeservations/refreshers' are useful; particularly to those > struggling to understand where "we" come from. > > -- > Scott Elcomb > > "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy > rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, > their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that > the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al > Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) > > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin > > '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting > on its shoes." - Mark Twain > -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 11 21:56:41 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:56:41 -0400 Subject: [OT] Game: Guess My Purpose... Message-ID: <99a6c38f0706111456v425bac29tbcdb071ecd529b5f@mail.gmail.com> This might seem a waste of time to some. To those who're parents, you might recognize this one. All in all, I'm hoping others will come forward and do the same. The more one community member understands another, the more effectively the whole can work-together. The Object: A definition of "what purpose, if any, do I serve in this community?" The rules: After asking the question, say your piece - as you see it - and then shhhh! Don't respond to anything posted. Just look and see what others say - adjust your own community-interactivity to suit, for maximum effect. If I were someone other than myself (which I am not) I'd likely say that I'm: - A shit-disturber. - a person that want's others to think about things they usually wouldn't. - A wanna-be FOSS advocate ... ?!? -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 12 03:11:46 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 23:11:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50115.207.188.67.28.1181310733.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <50799.207.188.67.28.1181617906.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Well, I guess it could be worse, at least I can switch to cable: Why French DSL Service Is Like a Rude French Waiter http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/06/french_dsl --- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 12 11:15:49 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 07:15:49 -0400 Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <50799.207.188.67.28.1181617906.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50115.207.188.67.28.1181310733.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50799.207.188.67.28.1181617906.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <466E8065.5050402@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Well, I guess it could be worse, at least I can switch to cable: > > Why French DSL Service Is Like a Rude French Waiter > http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/06/french_dsl > > Geez. They're almost as bad as Sympatico! ;-) At least Sympatico doesn't charge to put you on hold. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 12 14:15:19 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:15:19 -0400 Subject: [OT] Game: Guess My Purpose... In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0706111456v425bac29tbcdb071ecd529b5f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0706111456v425bac29tbcdb071ecd529b5f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0706120715g462aa6c1va404611fd317c51f@mail.gmail.com> Err - Sorry folks... This wasn't supposed to have been sent; I was clearing out old items in my drafts folder and must've hit send instead of discard. /me hands the lists' resident crazy hat back to Joe. ;-) On 6/11/07, Scott Elcomb wrote: > This might seem a waste of time to some. [...] -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 12 15:35:37 2007 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:35:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <466E8065.5050402-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50115.207.188.67.28.1181310733.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50799.207.188.67.28.1181617906.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <466E8065.5050402@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Jun 2007, James Knott wrote: > phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> Well, I guess it could be worse, at least I can switch to cable: >> >> Why French DSL Service Is Like a Rude French Waiter >> http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/06/french_dsl >> >> > > Geez. They're almost as bad as Sympatico! ;-) > > At least Sympatico doesn't charge to put you on hold. Rogers did that to me once. I asked them specifically before a trip to Jamaica whether my voicemail would work. "Yes yes they said. No problem". About a day after I arrived in Jamaica I was suspicious about a lack of voicemail messages so I had a business associate call me and try to leave a message. Guess what - voicemail was broken! I called Rogers and they charged me international rates while I was waiting on hold (they were looking in to the problem). They refunded the money after receiving an irate call from me when the bill arrived :) Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 12 15:46:02 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:46:02 -0400 Subject: Hardware for sale Message-ID: <466EBFBA.8000303@utoronto.ca> I've got a few odds and ends I'd like to part with: 1x A2210-SCSI 1U Celestica blade (needs, processor, RAM, SCSI drive) 1x 80GB Seagate ST380011A IDE Drive 1x XFX GeForce 6800 XTreme 256MB DDR3 AGP Contact me off list to get more details or make an offer. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 12 15:49:42 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:49:42 -0400 Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50115.207.188.67.28.1181310733.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50799.207.188.67.28.1181617906.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <466E8065.5050402@rogers.com> Message-ID: <466EC096.7040300@telly.org> I'm actually finding Rogers customer service to be improving. I recently switched smartphones, and the new one supports WiFi. That allows me to surf and check email -- and even use Skype! -- at hotspots without using Rogers' overpriced data service. Given this intended use, it was a bit of a surprise to find a charge of $200 for data usage on my first bill with the new phone. Fifteen minutes later (nothing irate, politeness all around) the charge was reversed, I got an apology, and the mechanisms are in place to prevent it from happening again. I even recall they helped me through a different cablemodem problem some weeks back, knowing that I had Linux on the other end. The tech said "we don't officially support Linux but I think this should work"... and it did. By comparison, I find myself surprised that Bell service, as much as it has teed me off in the past, continues to deteriorate. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 12 15:58:45 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:58:45 -0400 Subject: Hardware for sale In-Reply-To: <466EBFBA.8000303-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <466EBFBA.8000303@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <466EC2B5.6030609@utoronto.ca> Jamon Camisso wrote: > I've got a few odds and ends I'd like to part with: > > 1x A2210-SCSI 1U Celestica blade (needs, processor, RAM, SCSI drive) > 1x 80GB Seagate ST380011A IDE Drive > 1x XFX GeForce 6800 XTreme 256MB DDR3 AGP > Note: the server takes up to 2 Opteron socket 940 2xx chips and comes with a set of rails. Detailed user manual available from Celestica here: http://tinyurl.com/2y4wdu Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 12 16:40:33 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:40:33 -0400 Subject: Hardware for sale In-Reply-To: <466EC2B5.6030609-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <466EBFBA.8000303@utoronto.ca> <466EC2B5.6030609@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <200706121240.33930.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Tuesday 12 June 2007 11:58, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: > > I've got a few odds and ends I'd like to part with: > > > > 1x A2210-SCSI 1U Celestica blade (needs, processor, RAM, SCSI > > drive) 1x 80GB Seagate ST380011A IDE Drive > > 1x XFX GeForce 6800 XTreme 256MB DDR3 AGP > > Note: the server takes up to 2 Opteron socket 940 2xx chips and > comes with a set of rails. Detailed user manual available from > Celestica here: http://tinyurl.com/2y4wdu That is not a blade server. That is a conventional, 1U server. Blades are something else. They slide into a backplane and enable higher densities, though how useful that is given the power and cooling requirements imposed by higher server densities is an open question. The server looks mildly interesting except the manual you pointed out is very short on useful details. E.g., it seems there is some remote management board. The manual is silent on what can be managed and how. Is it over IP? If so, what sort of client does it require? Does the server have the ducting for the CPU heat sinks? Without them, unless one could obtain such parts cheaply from Celestica, it's a boat anchor. Celestica might be OEM manufacturers for different brands but I have never seen a Celestica branded server anywhere so how viable a machine this is, who knows? -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 12 16:51:54 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:51:54 -0400 Subject: Hardware for sale In-Reply-To: <200706121240.33930.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <466EBFBA.8000303@utoronto.ca> <466EC2B5.6030609@utoronto.ca> <200706121240.33930.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <466ECF2A.9050302@utoronto.ca> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On Tuesday 12 June 2007 11:58, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> Jamon Camisso wrote: >>> I've got a few odds and ends I'd like to part with: >>> >>> 1x A2210-SCSI 1U Celestica blade (needs, processor, RAM, SCSI >>> drive) 1x 80GB Seagate ST380011A IDE Drive >>> 1x XFX GeForce 6800 XTreme 256MB DDR3 AGP >> Note: the server takes up to 2 Opteron socket 940 2xx chips and >> comes with a set of rails. Detailed user manual available from >> Celestica here: http://tinyurl.com/2y4wdu > > That is not a blade server. That is a conventional, 1U server. Blades > are something else. They slide into a backplane and enable higher > densities, though how useful that is given the power and cooling > requirements imposed by higher server densities is an open question. I stand corrected, thank you. > The server looks mildly interesting except the manual you pointed out > is very short on useful details. E.g., it seems there is some remote > management board. If you want to use it. > The manual is silent on what can be managed and > how. Is it over IP? If so, what sort of client does it require? Does > the server have the ducting for the CPU heat sinks? I broke open the box once, saw the 2 heatsinks. Pretty sure there was a duct, I'll have to check again. > Without them, > unless one could obtain such parts cheaply from Celestica, it's a > boat anchor. Celestica might be OEM manufacturers for different > brands but I have never seen a Celestica branded server anywhere so > how viable a machine this is, who knows? Celestica teamed up with AMD to build these things, part of AMD's validated server program, more here: http://www.celestica.com/News/News.aspx?id=480 Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 12 17:35:11 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:35:11 +0000 Subject: Hardware for sale In-Reply-To: <200706121240.33930.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <466EBFBA.8000303@utoronto.ca> <466EC2B5.6030609@utoronto.ca> <200706121240.33930.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On 6/12/07, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Celestica might be OEM manufacturers for different > brands but I have never seen a Celestica branded server anywhere so > how viable a machine this is, who knows? We bought a bunch of direct-from-Celestica servers a couple of years ago thru Alliance Computers, a local server VAR. We weren't entirely happy with them; they ran hot, and we possibly cooked them to death :-(. Probably due to heat issues, they weren't reliable enough to become real production systems. I saw later-generation Celestica-made servers that looked further nicer, but I think I'd rather buy Opteron boxes from HP; we got some from them that have (again been abused :-() worked pretty flawlessly even in a somewhat hostile (3rd world) environment. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 12 19:02:08 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:02:08 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe is two Message-ID: that's right, two years ago today we tore the newspaper off the windows and began to fake it as fast as possible. Thanks to YOU (and the dogwalkers, and the local artists, and dykes and grannies) We've been able to keep slinging that ol' Open Source and fine dark organic espressos, and such. So great big heartfelt hugs to our many supporters, and to those who said it would never work; :-p thanks again gang, and may this next year be the one where the rest of you geeks realize that this is your caffe, too. love, djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org OR davamundo-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 12 19:22:11 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:22:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Wiki Defacement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <982171.91341.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sun, 10 Jun 2007, Robert Brockway wrote: > > > 1. They seem to be doing intelligent test edits > to see if we'll notice. Eg, > > they changed C to C++ in someone's bio. > > > > 2. They are way too slow. I'm reverting faster > than they are adding. > > There is no way I could keep up with a bot going > full speed. > > 3. Because they backoff when I start reverting > their edits. > > They are still active so I hope others are looking > at the 'Recent Changes' > too. Well, I've reversed a few changes, Chris has revered a few more than me, and Seneca has been playing "Whac-a-Mole" with this person (people?). Sigh, grumble. Any good ideas as to how we let GTALug folks edit pages but block out the total @#$%(s) that our wiki currently is being hit by? Still, I have expanded the Wiki by adding a few articles that I wrote for LinuxJournal.com, so that the Wiki is hopefully a little better/nicer than it was before. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 12 19:52:41 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:52:41 -0400 Subject: Wiki Defacement In-Reply-To: <982171.91341.qm-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <982171.91341.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 6/12/07, Colin McGregor wrote: > > --- Robert Brockway wrote: > > On Sun, 10 Jun 2007, Robert Brockway wrote: > > > > > 1. They seem to be doing intelligent test edits > > to see if we'll notice. Eg, > > > they changed C to C++ in someone's bio. > > > > > > 2. They are way too slow. I'm reverting faster > > than they are adding. > > > There is no way I could keep up with a bot going > > full speed. > > > > 3. Because they backoff when I start reverting > > their edits. > > > > They are still active so I hope others are looking > > at the 'Recent Changes' > > too. > > Well, I've reversed a few changes, Chris has revered a > few more than me, and Seneca has been playing > "Whac-a-Mole" with this person (people?). > > Sigh, grumble. Any good ideas as to how we let GTALug > folks edit pages but block out the total @#$%(s) that > our wiki currently is being hit by? Are we doing an recording of the IP addresses? Would a temporary block of some IP address ranges help the situation? -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 12 22:01:28 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:01:28 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe is two In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070612180128.57e5bcd9@node1.freeyourmachine.org> David J Patrick left a post-it on the fridge: > that's right, two years ago today we tore the newspaper off the > windows and began to fake it as fast as possible. Thanks to YOU (and > the dogwalkers, and the local artists, and dykes and grannies) We've > been able to keep slinging that ol' Open Source and fine dark organic > espressos, and such. > > So great big heartfelt hugs to our many supporters, and to those who > said it would never work; > :-p > > thanks again gang, and may this next year be the one where the rest of > you geeks realize that this is your caffe, too. I keep thinking I'd like to go visit, then I think 'hey, if they'll let ME in, what kind of place IS this??'. ;-) Plus, I'd feel kind of lame without some hardware attached to me... Congrats on your success, mate. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: I need a calculator. Fry: You are a calculator. Bender: I need a good calculator. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 13 04:29:37 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 00:29:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: today: A Joint IHPST ECE Colloquium,University of Toronto - Sandford Fleming Building Message-ID: I mentioned this in the meeting. Peter suggested others on the list might be interested. This is a pair of talks about an early analogue computer built out of Mechano. IHPST is University of Toronto institute. The acronym stands for Institute for the History and Philosophy of Science and Technology. I have been to several interesting talks of theirs. ECE is Electrical and Computer Engineering. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:10:31 -0700 From: Denise Horsley To: Subject: Reminder: A Joint IHPST ECE Colloquium, University of Toronto - Sandford Fleming Building A Joint IHPST ECE Colloquium University of Toronto Wednesday, 13 June 2007 1:00 p.m.-3:00 p.m. Sandford Fleming Building, Room 1105, 10 King's College Road "The Marshall Differential Analyzer Project: Mathematics in Motion" Bonita A. Lawrence, Ph.D. & Clayton Brooks, Ph.D. Department of Mathematics, Marshall University Huntington, West Virginia, U.S.A. "A Historical Introduction to Differential Analyzers" Scott Campbell, Ph.D. Institute for the History and Philosophy of Science and Technology, University of Toronto Centre for Society, Technology and Values, University of Waterloo Abstract: The Marshall Differential Analyzer Team is a collection of undergraduate and graduate students gathered together with the express purposes of studying the mechanics of and constructing a four integrator differential analyzer. The machine, being built almost exclusively of replicated Meccano components, is a close model of the first differential analyzer built in England by the University of Toronto's own Arthur Porter when he was a student of Douglas Hartree. Finding solutions to nonlinear differential equation is only one of the benefits that the machine has to offer. Like our forefathers, we will certainly utilize this feature. Bringing to life a mathematical statement through the construction and operation of this magnificent and essentially mechanical machine will be its invaluable contribution to the educational process. The Team is currently preparing a teacher enhancement grant that will train local educators to use the machine to teach mathematics. This talk will chronicle the Marshall DA Project, which began with a visit to the London's Science Museum and continued with the first major phase of the project, the construction of our two integrator mini DA (we call her Lizzie). The big finale will be a demonstration of the use of our two integrator machine. Refreshments to follow -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 13 05:13:24 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 01:13:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: <466EC096.7040300-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50115.207.188.67.28.1181310733.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50799.207.188.67.28.1181617906.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <466E8065.5050402@rogers.com> <466EC096.7040300@telly.org> Message-ID: | From: Evan Leibovitch | I'm actually finding Rogers customer service to be improving. My cable and TV service failed about 24 hours ago. I phoned support, punching in and speaking the appropriate choices. After 5 minutes, they dumped me to dial tone. About 20 minutes later, I tried again. The messages were all systemattically garbled. I gave up after navigating for about 5 minutes. About 20 minutes later I tried again. I spent half an hour on hold before I gave up. Meanwhile, the actual TV service seemed to come back on its own a little bit at a time. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 13 06:55:22 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 02:55:22 -0400 Subject: DSL service [was Re:TLUG Mail list archives?] In-Reply-To: References: <50518.207.188.67.28.1181239774.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <3263242b0706071147j3b549217hf36a1aeeb051362a@mail.gmail.com> <50692.207.188.67.28.1181244667.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50115.207.188.67.28.1181310733.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50799.207.188.67.28.1181617906.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <466E8065.5050402@rogers.com> <466EC096.7040300@telly.org> Message-ID: <466F94DA.9020700@telly.org> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Evan Leibovitch > > | I'm actually finding Rogers customer service to be improving. > > My cable and TV service failed about 24 hours ago. > Mine too. Actually, the service didn't completely die, a single channel (OMNI1) was working. So was my Internet, so the important stuff was still up. Times like that, when I know that others are experiencing the same problem, I never call support. I know that tech support will have little to say except "we're working on it", and that I can depend on a swarm of others to keep them busy. ;-) As usual, it comes back eventually, and wouldn't have been fixed any faster whether I'd called or not. If the outage is long enough I call the next day and ask for a credit, which they often grant -- but that wasn't the case here. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 13 12:29:15 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 08:29:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Wiki Defacement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <839536.86367.qm@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Alex Beamish wrote: > On 6/12/07, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > > > --- Robert Brockway > wrote: > > > On Sun, 10 Jun 2007, Robert Brockway wrote: > > > > > > > 1. They seem to be doing intelligent test > edits > > > to see if we'll notice. Eg, > > > > they changed C to C++ in someone's bio. > > > > > > > > 2. They are way too slow. I'm reverting > faster > > > than they are adding. > > > > There is no way I could keep up with a bot > going > > > full speed. > > > > > > 3. Because they backoff when I start reverting > > > their edits. > > > > > > They are still active so I hope others are > looking > > > at the 'Recent Changes' > > > too. > > Are we doing an recording of the IP addresses? Would > a temporary block of > some IP address ranges help the situation? I know the software will allow you to block based on IP address, but I have not found a way to determine what IP number(s) is/are being used by a given user. At THE MOMENT things are quiet, mind you the amount of #$%^ in the system in semi-unreal. I can pull up a log of the last 500 changes to the system, which gets us back to part way through Monday, between spam, correcting spam, locking down favourite spam target pages and banning throw away spammer accounts. Damage that remains, GTALug's Wiki user account list is over 1200 users, a very large percentage following the 6 character (with 1st, and often 4th character capitalized) format favoured by the spammer(s). Other damage, while the spam loaded pages are cleaned up anyone going into the archives of past page versions can still find the spam, which is ugly from a storage issue, and then there is the issue of 'bots indexing our site (thus indexing and promoting the spammer websites). Bottom line, even if the spammer(s) go away NOW and don't return (no promise on that score) we still have a mess on our hands,,, Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 13 12:36:48 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 08:36:48 -0400 Subject: Wiki Defacement In-Reply-To: <839536.86367.qm-iE2/U85ktn6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <839536.86367.qm@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200706130836.48661.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Wednesday 13 June 2007 08:29, Colin McGregor wrote: [snip] > Bottom line, even if the spammer(s) go away NOW and > don't return (no promise on that score) we still have > a mess on our hands,,, This will not help the mess that is already there but for preventing future messes, is it possible to have moderator approved membership or requiring the first X changes needing to be approved by a moderator for them to be published? I was having a problem with link spam on a Drupal site recently by spammers registering for user accounts and going nuts with comments on content. Once I changed the membership to "requires administrative approval", or whatever the Drupal wording was, the problem disappeared. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 13 14:08:51 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:08:51 -0400 Subject: Wiki Defacement In-Reply-To: <200706130836.48661.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <839536.86367.qm@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200706130836.48661.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On 6/13/07, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On Wednesday 13 June 2007 08:29, Colin McGregor wrote: > [snip] > > Bottom line, even if the spammer(s) go away NOW and > > don't return (no promise on that score) we still have > > a mess on our hands,,, > > This will not help the mess that is already there but for preventing > future messes, is it possible to have moderator approved membership > or requiring the first X changes needing to be approved by a > moderator for them to be published? I was having a problem with link > spam on a Drupal site recently by spammers registering for user > accounts and going nuts with comments on content. Once I changed the > membership to "requires administrative approval", or whatever the > Drupal wording was, the problem disappeared. > -- Great idea -- or if there's some way to put a new user on probation for the first 30 days; perhaps allow them to make one change per day. And as soon as they spam, their account is closed. And logging the IP address is not a silver bullet, but it could be useful. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 13 15:48:27 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:48:27 +0000 Subject: Wiki Defacement In-Reply-To: References: <839536.86367.qm@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200706130836.48661.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On 6/13/07, Alex Beamish wrote: > On 6/13/07, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > Once I changed the > > membership to "requires administrative approval", or whatever the > > Drupal wording was, the problem disappeared. If the number of adminstrators is increased somewhat, so that we have quick turnaround on this, that would work. Particularly if requests for approval went to a mailing list consisting of the administrators... (Unlike some of the other wishful thinking, I think these things are quite likely to be supported...) > Great idea -- or if there's some way to put a new user on probation > for the first 30 days; perhaps allow them to make one change per day. > And as soon as they spam, their account is closed. Interesting possibility, if supported. > And logging the IP address is not a silver bullet, but it could be useful. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 13 22:46:47 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:46:47 -0400 Subject: Spam problem Message-ID: <467073D7.7080406@alteeve.com> Hi all, One of the domains I maintain started getting a pile of bounce messages. All the messages have the 'From' headers set to '"Some Variable Name" ' which is not a valid address. At first I assumed this was just a couple mail servers falling for forged headers but now it's a steady stream of bounces. I've tried looking to see that it's not coming from/via my server but so far I can't see a problem. It looks like the source IP is in Poland but I worry I may be wrong. Here is a sample header from a bounce. Can you guys help reassure me that my server hasn't been opened/compromised? Thanks!! A concerned Madison -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Reporting-MTA: dns; rly-ya01.mx.aol.com Arrival-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:22:11 -0400 (EDT) Final-Recipient: RFC822; lui003-YDxpq3io04c at public.gmane.org Action: failed Status: 5.2.2 Remote-MTA: DNS; air-ya02.mail.aol.com Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 552 lui003 MAILBOX FULL Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:22:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from h110277.serverkompetenz.net (h110277.serverkompetenz.net [81.169.140.18]) by rly-ya01.mx.aol.com (v115.17) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYA11-13746706e12262; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:22:11 -0400 Received: (qmail 858 invoked by uid 60000); 13 Jun 2007 22:22:08 -0000 Delivered-To: hint-b2wzkxdXO60bhb6IIWwbbQ at public.gmane.org Received: (qmail 842 invoked by uid 60000); 13 Jun 2007 22:22:07 -0000 Delivered-To: hint-/xECjfLExT1BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Received: (qmail 808 invoked by uid 60000); 13 Jun 2007 22:22:07 -0000 Received: from 62.121.109.141 by h110277 (envelope-from , uid 60004) with qmail-scanner-1.24st visas (spamassassin: 2.55. Clear:RC:0(62.121.109.141):SA:0(2.1/8.0):. Processed in 0.458876 secs); 13 Jun 2007 22:22:07 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=8.0 X-Envelope-From: tabnouvelocitydyh-UqHW2wehKNmfJOJzLBvvIA at public.gmane.org Received: from 141-mo3-6.acn.waw.pl (62.121.109.141) by h110277.serverkompetenz.net with SMTP; 13 Jun 2007 22:22:07 -0000 Received: from 192.139.81.120 (HELO mail.nouvelocity.com) by brannet.com with esmtp (I<0-2S932 N/-(Q) id (HX+F--AGAF-'-)7 for home-/xECjfLExT1BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:21:32 -0100 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:21:32 -0100 From: "Karen Sullivan" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.10.03) Personal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <834032768.79579868946668-VRR/Z2xxn2bR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org> To: home-/xECjfLExT1BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Subject: Hey - Don't get ripped off MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------0C38DAB4F29CABB" X-Spam: Not detected X-Qmail-Scanner-MOVED-X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=8.0 tests=AMAZING_STUFF,HTML_10_20,HTML_FONT_COLOR_UNSAFE, HTML_MESSAGE,MIME_LONG_LINE_QP version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) X-AOL-IP: 81.169.140.18 X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:386343366:6710886 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- In this case the source IP seems to be 62.121.109.141 which resolves as: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- dig -x 62.121.109.141 ; <<>> DiG 9.3.4 <<>> -x 62.121.109.141 ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 50754 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 2 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;141.109.121.62.in-addr.arpa. IN PTR ;; ANSWER SECTION: 141.109.121.62.in-addr.arpa. 86401 IN PTR 141-mo3-6.acn.waw.pl. ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: 109.121.62.in-addr.arpa. 86401 IN NS dns.astercity.net. 109.121.62.in-addr.arpa. 86401 IN NS dns1.astercity.net. ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: dns.astercity.net. 172800 IN A 212.76.32.1 dns1.astercity.net. 172800 IN A 212.76.33.1 ;; Query time: 549 msec ;; SERVER: 192.168.2.10#53(192.168.2.10) ;; WHEN: Wed Jun 13 18:45:23 2007 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 161 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 14 00:09:05 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:09:05 -0400 Subject: Spam problem In-Reply-To: <467073D7.7080406-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <467073D7.7080406@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1181779745.3047.208.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-06-13 at 18:46 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > One of the domains I maintain started getting a pile of bounce > messages. All the messages have the 'From' headers set to '"Some > Variable Name" ' which is not a valid > address. At first I assumed this was just a couple mail servers falling > for forged headers but now it's a steady stream of bounces. > > I've tried looking to see that it's not coming from/via my server but > so far I can't see a problem. It looks like the source IP is in Poland > but I worry I may be wrong. Here is a sample header from a bounce. Can > you guys help reassure me that my server hasn't been opened/compromised? > > Thanks!! > > A concerned Madison > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Reporting-MTA: dns; rly-ya01.mx.aol.com > Arrival-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:22:11 -0400 (EDT) > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; lui003-YDxpq3io04c at public.gmane.org > Action: failed > Status: 5.2.2 > Remote-MTA: DNS; air-ya02.mail.aol.com > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 552 lui003 MAILBOX FULL > Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:22:33 -0400 (EDT) > > > Received: from h110277.serverkompetenz.net (h110277.serverkompetenz.net > [81.169.140.18]) by rly-ya01.mx.aol.com (v115.17) with ESMTP id > MAILRELAYINYA11-13746706e12262; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:22:11 -0400 > Received: (qmail 858 invoked by uid 60000); 13 Jun 2007 22:22:08 -0000 > Delivered-To: hint-b2wzkxdXO60bhb6IIWwbbQ at public.gmane.org > Received: (qmail 842 invoked by uid 60000); 13 Jun 2007 22:22:07 -0000 > Delivered-To: hint-/xECjfLExT1BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > Received: (qmail 808 invoked by uid 60000); 13 Jun 2007 22:22:07 -0000 > Received: from 62.121.109.141 by h110277 (envelope-from > , uid 60004) with > qmail-scanner-1.24st visas > (spamassassin: 2.55. > Clear:RC:0(62.121.109.141):SA:0(2.1/8.0):. > Processed in 0.458876 secs); 13 Jun 2007 22:22:07 -0000 > X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=8.0 > X-Envelope-From: tabnouvelocitydyh-UqHW2wehKNmfJOJzLBvvIA at public.gmane.org > Received: from 141-mo3-6.acn.waw.pl (62.121.109.141) > by h110277.serverkompetenz.net with SMTP; 13 Jun 2007 22:22:07 -0000 > Received: from 192.139.81.120 (HELO mail.nouvelocity.com) > by brannet.com with esmtp (I<0-2S932 N/-(Q) > id (HX+F--AGAF-'-)7 > for home-/xECjfLExT1BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:21:32 -0100 > Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:21:32 -0100 > From: "Karen Sullivan" > X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.10.03) Personal > X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > Message-ID: <834032768.79579868946668-VRR/Z2xxn2bR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org> > To: home-/xECjfLExT1BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > Subject: Hey - Don't get ripped off > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----------0C38DAB4F29CABB" > X-Spam: Not detected > X-Qmail-Scanner-MOVED-X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=8.0 > tests=AMAZING_STUFF,HTML_10_20,HTML_FONT_COLOR_UNSAFE, > HTML_MESSAGE,MIME_LONG_LINE_QP > version=2.55 > X-Spam-Level: ** > X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > X-AOL-IP: 81.169.140.18 > X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:386343366:6710886 > X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > In this case the source IP seems to be 62.121.109.141 which resolves as: My guess is that it's actual from 192.139.81.120. It's a little odd that there are headers between the Received lines. I have heard of forged headers but I've yet to see one. One way to deal with this is to add a signature to the headers of each outgoing message. Then you check the bounce messages for that same signature. If it's not there then the message didn't go through your server. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 14 05:58:54 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 01:58:54 -0400 Subject: dont install latest flash plugin In-Reply-To: References: <20070609115148.b997cf07.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <200706091939.00496.marc@lijour.net> <20070609222135.72d7ab3c@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990706132258u48f8e63dl9317a6f0d6ea6764@mail.gmail.com> On 6/11/07, Peter P. wrote: > I did some more testing, and the plugin seems to be ok. Results: > > - FF 1.5.x crashes with Flash 9 > - FF 2.0 crashes with Flash 9 > - Opera works great with Flash 9 > > So the problem is not the plugin itself but something more subtle (but what ?). > > Any clues may be welcome. Feel free to brainstorm. It works for me. Yay for PCLinuxOS! But some flash is just crappy and tends to crash any browser. Konqueror seems a lot happier with Flash than Firefox. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 14 06:04:00 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 02:04:00 -0400 Subject: Wiki Defacement In-Reply-To: References: <839536.86367.qm@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200706130836.48661.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990706132304mdcb6e79ld9b20ecfb23c5f60@mail.gmail.com> As I said before, the best solution is the Bad Behavior extension and a few basic MediaWiki settings. With those basics in place, I allow anonymous editing and I almost never get spam (maybe once every couple of months) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 14 06:05:52 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 02:05:52 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe is two In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e55af990706132305n5392fedcq5d2be25d1548b73d@mail.gmail.com> On 6/12/07, David J Patrick wrote: > that's right, two years ago today we tore the newspaper off the > windows and began to fake it as fast as possible. Wow, was it two years ago since you had DDR hooked up in the main room? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 14 06:21:51 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 02:21:51 -0400 Subject: Spam problem In-Reply-To: <1181779745.3047.208.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <467073D7.7080406@alteeve.com> <1181779745.3047.208.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4670DE7F.8030506@alteeve.com> John Van Ostrand wrote: > My guess is that it's actual from 192.139.81.120. It's a little odd that > there are headers between the Received lines. I have heard of forged > headers but I've yet to see one. > > One way to deal with this is to add a signature to the headers of each > outgoing message. Then you check the bounce messages for that same > signature. If it's not there then the message didn't go through your > server. > Sadly, it is/was coming from my machine. :< I've upgraded the server and blocked about 8 class A networks at my firewall. It's draconian, but it seems to have stemmed the tide until I can look at the problem tomorrow (it's 2:30am now...). It looks like they've found a way to connect to my machine's sendmail even though relaying should be denied. Any idea how this could have happened? At any rate, I will look into that tomorrow. Thanks for your help! a tired Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 14 06:44:49 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 02:44:49 -0400 Subject: Spam problem In-Reply-To: <4670DE7F.8030506-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <467073D7.7080406@alteeve.com> <1181779745.3047.208.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4670DE7F.8030506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1181803489.3047.218.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-06-14 at 02:21 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Sadly, it is/was coming from my machine. :< > > I've upgraded the server and blocked about 8 class A networks at my > firewall. It's draconian, but it seems to have stemmed the tide until I > can look at the problem tomorrow (it's 2:30am now...). > > It looks like they've found a way to connect to my machine's sendmail > even though relaying should be denied. Any idea how this could have > happened? At any rate, I will look into that tomorrow. Thanks for your help! > > a tired Madi If you are running any web applications you may want to look at fill-in-forms. Also I saw a squirrelmail exploit recently, although I didn't pay much attention to it, just upgraded. There is also an MSP (mail submission port) that usually requires authentication by default. Make sure you don't have guessable passwords. It's also possible that it's coming from a machine internal to your network that is using your email server for sending email or for NAT/firewall. Finally, an open proxy server could be the culprit. Is your machine the 192.139.81.120? How did you determine it was your system? Does the email show up in logs? Was it just an IP address in the received header that tipped you off? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 14 10:46:49 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 06:46:49 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe is two In-Reply-To: <1e55af990706132305n5392fedcq5d2be25d1548b73d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990706132305n5392fedcq5d2be25d1548b73d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 14/06/07, Sy Ali wrote: > > Wow, was it two years ago since you had DDR hooked up in the main room? yuhuh ! We were (Dance Dance) Revolutionaries, even back then ! djp -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org OR davamundo-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 14 13:52:36 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 09:52:36 -0400 Subject: Spam problem In-Reply-To: <1181803489.3047.218.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <467073D7.7080406@alteeve.com> <1181779745.3047.208.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4670DE7F.8030506@alteeve.com> <1181803489.3047.218.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <46714824.3090309@alteeve.com> John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Thu, 2007-06-14 at 02:21 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Sadly, it is/was coming from my machine. :< >> >> I've upgraded the server and blocked about 8 class A networks at my >> firewall. It's draconian, but it seems to have stemmed the tide until I >> can look at the problem tomorrow (it's 2:30am now...). >> >> It looks like they've found a way to connect to my machine's sendmail >> even though relaying should be denied. Any idea how this could have >> happened? At any rate, I will look into that tomorrow. Thanks for your help! >> >> a tired Madi > > If you are running any web applications you may want to look at > fill-in-forms. Also I saw a squirrelmail exploit recently, although I > didn't pay much attention to it, just upgraded. > > There is also an MSP (mail submission port) that usually requires > authentication by default. Make sure you don't have guessable > passwords. > > It's also possible that it's coming from a machine internal to your > network that is using your email server for sending email or for > NAT/firewall. > > Finally, an open proxy server could be the culprit. > > Is your machine the 192.139.81.120? How did you determine it was your > system? Does the email show up in logs? Was it just an IP address in the > received header that tipped you off? > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > I've shut down all webmail apps at the moment, and the spam is still getting through. My mail server is at 192.139.81.120 and I can tell the mail is coming from it because all the headers on the bounced messages show that the connection came from me with the email originating from IPs in Poland and Russia (primarily). Currently I've blocked about 20 class A subnets from the bounces from those regions as a short-term measure. I am pretty sure they have found a way to connect to sendmail despite the fact that it shouldn't relay for anyone except people on the office or server LAN. If the mail was coming from one of the internal machines I wouldn't see how the origin IPs would all be from those geographic locals so that doesn't seem to be the case. I've installed wireshark and will try to figure out more in an hour or so when I get into the office (very late night last night). I HATE spammer scum. grrrr. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 14 14:09:33 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 10:09:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Wiki Defacement In-Reply-To: <1e55af990706132304mdcb6e79ld9b20ecfb23c5f60-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990706132304mdcb6e79ld9b20ecfb23c5f60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <949215.68179.qm@web88213.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Sy Ali wrote: > As I said before, the best solution is the Bad > Behavior extension and > a few basic MediaWiki settings. > > With those basics in place, I allow anonymous > editing and I almost > never get spam (maybe once every couple of months) Please name the extensions, as while the spam storm has declined considerably, it is not gone (plus we still have the crap left behing by previous spam attacks). So, we need to do something. Further, over the last 24 hours I see that roughly 50 new Wiki accounts have been created, and while a few may be legit, we need to assume most (or all) are bad news. I spoke to Seneca last evening, her view is that we are talking about 3 "players" after our Wiki, two appear to be human, and one seems to be some sort of 'bot. I have not been watching the junk closely enough to be sure about this, but it sounds reasonable, Regardless this just means shaking the spammers off may be more of a pain. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 14 14:40:50 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 10:40:50 -0400 Subject: Spam problem In-Reply-To: <4670DE7F.8030506-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <467073D7.7080406@alteeve.com> <1181779745.3047.208.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4670DE7F.8030506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20070614144050.GV10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 14, 2007 at 02:21:51AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Sadly, it is/was coming from my machine. :< > > I've upgraded the server and blocked about 8 class A networks at my > firewall. It's draconian, but it seems to have stemmed the tide until I > can look at the problem tomorrow (it's 2:30am now...). > > It looks like they've found a way to connect to my machine's sendmail > even though relaying should be denied. Any idea how this could have > happened? At any rate, I will look into that tomorrow. Thanks for your help! sendmail has a long history of being a security disaster. Why anyone ever uses it anymore is beyond my imagination. Why not postfix or exim? Simpler to configure, way less security problems over the years. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 14 14:48:40 2007 From: slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slackrat) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:48:40 +0200 Subject: Spam problem In-Reply-To: <46714824.3090309-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> (Madison Kelly's message of "Thu\, 14 Jun 2007 09\:52\:36 -0400") References: <467073D7.7080406@alteeve.com> <1181779745.3047.208.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4670DE7F.8030506@alteeve.com> <1181803489.3047.218.camel@localhost.localdomain> <46714824.3090309@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <87lkem7fsn.fsf@azurservers.com> Madison Kelly writes: > John Van Ostrand wrote: >> On Thu, 2007-06-14 at 02:21 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >>> Sadly, it is/was coming from my machine. :< >>> >>> I've upgraded the server and blocked about 8 class A networks at my >>> firewall. It's draconian, but it seems to have stemmed the tide >>> until I can look at the problem tomorrow (it's 2:30am now...). >>> >>> It looks like they've found a way to connect to my machine's >>> sendmail even though relaying should be denied. Any idea how this >>> could have happened? At any rate, I will look into that >>> tomorrow. Thanks for your help! >>> >>> a tired Madi >> >> If you are running any web applications you may want to look at >> fill-in-forms. Also I saw a squirrelmail exploit recently, although I >> didn't pay much attention to it, just upgraded. >> >> There is also an MSP (mail submission port) that usually requires >> authentication by default. Make sure you don't have guessable >> passwords. >> >> It's also possible that it's coming from a machine internal to your >> network that is using your email server for sending email or for >> NAT/firewall. >> >> Finally, an open proxy server could be the culprit. >> >> Is your machine the 192.139.81.120? How did you determine it was your >> system? Does the email show up in logs? Was it just an IP address in the >> received header that tipped you off? >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > I've shut down all webmail apps at the moment, and the spam is still > getting through. My mail server is at 192.139.81.120 and I can tell > the mail is coming from it because all the headers on the bounced > messages show that the connection came from me with the email > originating from IPs in Poland and Russia (primarily). > > Currently I've blocked about 20 class A subnets from the bounces from > those regions as a short-term measure. I am pretty sure they have > found a way to connect to sendmail despite the fact that it shouldn't > relay for anyone except people on the office or server LAN. If the > mail was coming from one of the internal machines I wouldn't see how > the origin IPs would all be from those geographic locals so that > doesn't seem to be the case. > > I've installed wireshark and will try to figure out more in an hour or > so when I get into the office (very late night last night). > > I HATE spammer scum. grrrr. > You have an open DNS http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?%26domain%3Dalteeve.com -- SlackRat aka bill henderson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 14 14:53:49 2007 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 10:53:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Spam problem In-Reply-To: <46714824.3090309-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46714824.3090309@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <662297.16141.qm@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> --- Madison Kelly wrote: > John Van Ostrand wrote: > > On Thu, 2007-06-14 at 02:21 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> Sadly, it is/was coming from my machine. :< > >> > >> I've upgraded the server and blocked about 8 class A networks at > my > >> firewall. It's draconian, but it seems to have stemmed the tide > until I > >> can look at the problem tomorrow (it's 2:30am now...). > >> > >> It looks like they've found a way to connect to my machine's > sendmail > >> even though relaying should be denied. Any idea how this could > have > >> happened? At any rate, I will look into that tomorrow. Thanks > for your help! > >> > >> a tired Madi > > > > If you are running any web applications you may want to look at > > fill-in-forms. Also I saw a squirrelmail exploit recently, > although I > > didn't pay much attention to it, just upgraded. > > > > There is also an MSP (mail submission port) that usually requires > > authentication by default. Make sure you don't have guessable > > passwords. > > > > It's also possible that it's coming from a machine internal to > your > > network that is using your email server for sending email or for > > NAT/firewall. > > > > Finally, an open proxy server could be the culprit. > > > > Is your machine the 192.139.81.120? How did you determine it was > your > > system? Does the email show up in logs? Was it just an IP address > in the > > received header that tipped you off? > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > I've shut down all webmail apps at the moment, and the spam is > still > getting through. My mail server is at 192.139.81.120 and I can tell > the > mail is coming from it because all the headers on the bounced > messages > show that the connection came from me with the email originating > from > IPs in Poland and Russia (primarily). > > Currently I've blocked about 20 class A subnets from the bounces > from > those regions as a short-term measure. I am pretty sure they have > found > a way to connect to sendmail despite the fact that it shouldn't > relay > for anyone except people on the office or server LAN. If the mail > was > coming from one of the internal machines I wouldn't see how the > origin > IPs would all be from those geographic locals so that doesn't seem > to be > the case. > > I've installed wireshark and will try to figure out more in an hour > or > so when I get into the office (very late night last night). > > I HATE spammer scum. grrrr. > > Madi But what does the line Message-ID: <834032768.79579868946668-VRR/Z2xxn2bR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org> tell you? Your server is not thhebat.net and the message-ID says that the mail originated at thhebat.net. I don't understand how an email that originated from thhebat.net got received from your server. Can it be that these guys are using the email address (in the From line) to send out spam and the bouce back come to you? In that case, probably the only solution, if you are absolutely sure that there will not be any legitmate email from that class, is to block the ip class, which you did. EK Just a thought. EK Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! Mail: http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 14 15:10:58 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:10:58 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe is two In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990706132305n5392fedcq5d2be25d1548b73d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46715A82.1050608@utoronto.ca> Congratulations Dave, hope to spend more time hanging out there. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 14 15:42:37 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:42:37 -0400 Subject: Spam problem In-Reply-To: <87lkem7fsn.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <467073D7.7080406@alteeve.com> <1181779745.3047.208.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4670DE7F.8030506@alteeve.com> <1181803489.3047.218.camel@localhost.localdomain> <46714824.3090309@alteeve.com> <87lkem7fsn.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: <467161ED.9000604@alteeve.com> Slackrat wrote: > You have an open DNS > > > http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?%26domain%3Dalteeve.com So I do, thanks! I'll look into that right now. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 14 17:13:20 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:13:20 -0400 Subject: Wiki Defacement In-Reply-To: <949215.68179.qm-iqFe0qLNPGCB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <949215.68179.qm@web88213.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46717730.8090304@telly.org> I know wiki software almost not at all, but I ran into a similar problem on a Drupal site some time back. I'm not sure if these tools exist for the wiki software, but can it include/obtain the ability to... 1) force new accounts to be approved by an admin before allowing the account to add/modify anything? This allows for some kind of sanity checking for new accounts (ie, not from a .cn domain) and to implement at least an informal blacklist 2) send an email to the user, including a link or passcode to be validated before the account goes live? This requires a real address be attached to every new account, making account-faking more difficult (but not impossible) 3) implement captchas to verify new accounts? This prevents most bots - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 14 17:59:03 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:59:03 -0400 Subject: [OT]: Seeking general Atomic OS usability comments Message-ID: <99a6c38f0706141059i3ba2e492h6c12f548defbaf68@mail.gmail.com> Atomic OS is first and foremost a web development library. However since it is also the operating environment for it's applications, I'd be curious to hear what people think of it in general. There is a complete re-write of Atomic OS / WAJAX at http://projects.psema4.com/atomos/ This version is almost entirely object based, and, unlike previous prototypes, is intended to become a solid foundation for future versions. It is expected to become version 1.0 upon release. If anyone would like to take a look and make comments, it'd be most appreciated. Before visiting there are a couple points that should be noted: - Only firefox is supported. - Either open a second Console after browsing to the page, or 'cat /etc/motd' for a list of important notices about this version. - Very few commands exist. It basically provides a shell and browser. What I'm looking for is whether or not it is *close* to intuitive for linux users. There's still a long way to go on this project, but many of the problems defined by previous protoypes cores have now been dealt with. TIA. - Scott. -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 14 18:00:26 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 14:00:26 -0400 Subject: Superkey? Message-ID: <4671823A.3090407@telly.org> Hey folks. Upon installing Beryl on a Kubuntu system, I found that some of the features require "Superkey+" to get to. Apparently "Superkey" is normally the 'windows' key on conventional PC keyboards -- but such key doesn't exist on my laptop. I've looked at the keyboard mapping using xmodmap and apparently, the right Alt key appears not to be mapped to anything. How easy is it to do this mapping to that the right Alt key performs this function? Am I clobbering any other hidden function of Alt_R on conventional systems? Any pointers or advice is appreciated. Thanks! - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 14 19:23:19 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:23:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT]: Seeking general Atomic OS usability comments In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0706141059i3ba2e492h6c12f548defbaf68-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0706141059i3ba2e492h6c12f548defbaf68@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jun 2007, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Atomic OS is first and foremost a web development library. > > However since it is also the operating environment for it's > applications, I'd be curious to hear what people think of it in > general. The console window is too small to be usable. -- Chris F.A. Johnson ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 14 19:26:09 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:26:09 -0400 Subject: Spam problem In-Reply-To: <20070614144050.GV10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <467073D7.7080406@alteeve.com> <1181779745.3047.208.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4670DE7F.8030506@alteeve.com> <20070614144050.GV10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1181849169.12194.71.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Thu, 2007-06-14 at 10:40 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > sendmail has a long history of being a security disaster. Why anyone > ever uses it anymore is beyond my imagination. Why not postfix or exim? > Simpler to configure, way less security problems over the years. Okay with flame bait like that I need to at least give a compelling counter argument. Sendmail has a long list of vulnerabilities because it's been around since the early 80's (postfix is only 8 years old). It was tagged as insecure a long time ago and people just don't seem to want to give up on that. It's had it's share of security issues, but so have lots of other programs that we use every day (like Linux, OpenSSH, OpenSSL, etc.) I've run Sendmail since I gave up trying to get MMDF working in 1994 and I have yet to fall victim to a vulnerability. That's on dozens of systems that I administer for my company and clients. Sendmail has been distributed in Unix systems for over a decade and it may have achieved its notoriety because vendors back then did not ship with a secure configuration leaving many systems configured as open relays. It was also the predominant MTA for a very long time. For some reason people also think its configuration is still difficult. Again this is out-dated. It certainly was difficult when I was using it back in 1995. However, its complex configuration allowed me to setup virtual domain hosting when all the larger ISPs still used aliases (e.g. so they couldn't have both sales-PV5Ro7/Mrj4 at public.gmane.org and sales-XauvlLoUTruG5qFZezUJ9A at public.gmane.org) That changed years ago when M4 macros were put to use. Now I can configure sendmail faster than Postfix and usually only a few lines of M4 config file need to be changed to support very advanced features. I do like Postfix too. I find its method of configuration in some ways more flexible than sendmail and in others more constrictive. sS for performance sendmail suits my needs. My heaviest email server processes about 15,000 messages a day and, in times of heavy spam, has peaked well above that and sendmail has been efficient. Now if I was doing a million messages a day I might shop around. And in the end Madison's problem may not have been sendmail after all. Sorry for the rant, but as a long time sendmail user I wanted to at least provide a more extensive viewpoint. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 14 20:18:41 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:18:41 -0400 Subject: Spam problem In-Reply-To: <1181849169.12194.71.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <467073D7.7080406@alteeve.com> <1181779745.3047.208.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4670DE7F.8030506@alteeve.com> <20070614144050.GV10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1181849169.12194.71.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <4671A2A1.4060506@alteeve.com> John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Thu, 2007-06-14 at 10:40 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> sendmail has a long history of being a security disaster. Why anyone >> ever uses it anymore is beyond my imagination. Why not postfix or exim? >> Simpler to configure, way less security problems over the years. > > Okay with flame bait like that I need to at least give a compelling > counter argument. > > Sendmail has a long list of vulnerabilities because it's been around > since the early 80's (postfix is only 8 years old). It was tagged as > insecure a long time ago and people just don't seem to want to give up > on that. It's had it's share of security issues, but so have lots of > other programs that we use every day (like Linux, OpenSSH, OpenSSL, > etc.) > > I've run Sendmail since I gave up trying to get MMDF working in 1994 and > I have yet to fall victim to a vulnerability. That's on dozens of > systems that I administer for my company and clients. > > Sendmail has been distributed in Unix systems for over a decade and it > may have achieved its notoriety because vendors back then did not ship > with a secure configuration leaving many systems configured as open > relays. It was also the predominant MTA for a very long time. > > For some reason people also think its configuration is still difficult. > Again this is out-dated. It certainly was difficult when I was using it > back in 1995. However, its complex configuration allowed me to setup > virtual domain hosting when all the larger ISPs still used aliases (e.g. > so they couldn't have both sales-PV5Ro7/Mrj4 at public.gmane.org and sales-XauvlLoUTruG5qFZezUJ9A at public.gmane.org) > That changed years ago when M4 macros were put to use. Now I can > configure sendmail faster than Postfix and usually only a few lines of > M4 config file need to be changed to support very advanced features. > > I do like Postfix too. I find its method of configuration in some ways > more flexible than sendmail and in others more constrictive. > > sS for performance sendmail suits my needs. My heaviest email server > processes about 15,000 messages a day and, in times of heavy spam, has > peaked well above that and sendmail has been efficient. Now if I was > doing a million messages a day I might shop around. > > And in the end Madison's problem may not have been sendmail after all. > > Sorry for the rant, but as a long time sendmail user I wanted to at > least provide a more extensive viewpoint. :) I feel bad sometimes admitting that I still do like Sendmail. Call me old fashioned. :P Also, since implementing SPF in DNS the bounces have stopped. It is starting to look like a clever header spoof or something. Not sure though why the firewall blocks helped, so maybe I'm wrong and there was a way into sendmail that I haven't fixed and the spam has stopped for other reasons... Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 14 21:34:46 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 17:34:46 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour Message-ID: Ben Powers, Ardour user, enthusiast and the guy who's writing the manual, will be leading a workshop this Sunday from 4pm-6pm (yes, we usually close @ 5pm Sundays) at linuxcaffe. So if you've ever wished you could have a fully functional digital audio workstation, c'mon down and see how it works. Benny has asked attendees to "pay what you can" and we will be giving away copies of the latest UbuntuStudio. http://linuxcaffe.ca/node/22080 http://www.out-of-order.ca/ardour/upcoming-ardour-20-tutorial-june-17th-at-linuxcaffe/ http://www.ubuntustudio.org/ djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org OR davamundo-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 15 00:02:25 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 20:02:25 -0400 Subject: Surge Suppressors Message-ID: <20070614200225.e65f361c.gstrom@teksavvy.com> I bought an APC "SurgeArrest Performance" surge protector. It's model PF11VT3: http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=176 It has phone/fax/modem protection built in. The phone hookup works fine, but my DSL modem (an Alcatel Speed Touch Home) will not sync when it's plugged in to the surge protector. I've been reading that DSL modems may not work well with surge protectors. If this is the case, is there another way to protect the modem? This unit also has protection for cable TV. I found that when I use it, the cable signal degrades. I was told a signal booster would fix the problem. Is this true? Thanks. -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 15 00:30:59 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 20:30:59 -0400 Subject: Wiki Defacement In-Reply-To: <949215.68179.qm-iqFe0qLNPGCB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990706132304mdcb6e79ld9b20ecfb23c5f60@mail.gmail.com> <949215.68179.qm@web88213.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990706141730y78575f9di33cc930e2f339743@mail.gmail.com> On 6/14/07, Colin McGregor wrote: > Please name the extensions While manual spamming can't be prevented without locking sensitive pages so that they are admin-only, all automated spam has certain footprints which can be detected and blocked by the Bad Behavior extension: http://jrandomhacker.info/Bad_Behavior It's a 2 minute install. =) Other spam prevention notes are here: http://jrandomhacker.info/MediaWiki_security/spam_protection I think I already implemented most of the basics way back when, but a quick checkup wouldn't hurt. Captcha might be a good idea for new users. I've heard that one captcha extension forces its use for new users until they make a certain number of edits. But I've done no research in that direction. Also, above all else.. please keep the MediaWiki software updated. If PHP5 isn't available, then at least update to the latest 1.5.x just to be safe. Updating is a matter of backing everything up (to be safe), unpacking the new version overtop and running 'php maintenance/update.php' I believe. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 15 00:34:09 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 20:34:09 -0400 Subject: Wiki Defacement In-Reply-To: <46717730.8090304-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <949215.68179.qm@web88213.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46717730.8090304@telly.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990706141734y6802e85cnec1dfa02e5a6033f@mail.gmail.com> On 6/14/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I'm not sure if these tools exist for the wiki software, but can it > include/obtain the ability to... > > 1) force new accounts to be approved by an admin before allowing the > account to add/modify anything? > This allows for some kind of sanity checking for new accounts (ie, not > from a .cn domain) and to implement at least an informal blacklist I've never heard of such a thing, but I've never looked for it either. It would definitely never become an official feature since the MediaWiki guys hate building "real world" features like this. ;) But maybe someone hacked together an extension. I don't think it's impossible.. > 2) send an email to the user, including a link or passcode to be > validated before the account goes live? > This requires a real address be attached to every new account, making > account-faking more difficult (but not impossible) This I'm pretty sure exists, but I've never explored it. I've read some brief messages talking about such features and it suggests that someone out there has done the necessary work for this. > 3) implement captchas to verify new accounts? > This prevents most bots I know that there is a captcha extension for making edits to a page, but I'm not sure about new user creation. I should think this exists but I myself haven't explored it. I haven't explored these things because Bad Behavior has worked that well for me. Either that or I've dropped off the face of the earth because of my domain name changes and such. *sniff* -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 15 00:54:43 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 20:54:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Surge Suppressors In-Reply-To: <20070614200225.e65f361c.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070614200225.e65f361c.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <2947.74.98.135.89.1181868883.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > I bought an APC "SurgeArrest Performance" surge protector. It's model > PF11VT3: > http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=176 > > It has phone/fax/modem protection built in. The phone hookup works > fine, but my DSL modem (an Alcatel Speed Touch Home) will not sync when > it's plugged in to the surge protector. > > I've been reading that DSL modems may not work well with surge > protectors. If this is the case, is there another way to protect the > modem? The phone line *has* a surge protector, usually near the building entry point, which is meant to protect phones (and their accompanying humanoid companions) from destruction during a lightning strike. (My recollection is that there is a spark gap and two thyristors.) So, is surge protection really required on a phone line? > This unit also has protection for cable TV. I found that when I use > it, the cable signal degrades. I was told a signal booster would fix > the problem. Is this true? I watched the cable installer hooking up my *new* Rogers internet connection. There is an earth ground at the box on the outside of the house which is intended to divert a lightning strike to ground. So far as I know, there are no thyristors. So this would hopefully prevent a catastrophic surge - but might not protect delicate electronic equipment. On the other hand, in the city, the chances of having a lightning strike in your section of the cable are rather remote and the cable amplifiers would limit the spread of a lightning strike. (Not so in the countryside. I lived in Schomberg as a kid and we had close lightning strikes all the time, including one that vapourized a tree in the corner of the garden. It's quite unnerving to be out in a large field on a tractor as a violent thunderstorm bears down, knowing that *you* are the highest point of land in the area.) Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 15 01:04:34 2007 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:04:34 -0400 Subject: Superkey? In-Reply-To: <4671823A.3090407-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4671823A.3090407@telly.org> Message-ID: <1181869474.6972.1195252477@webmail.messagingengine.com> I can't speak to how easy it is to remap "modifier" keys such as Right Alt via xmodmap, since I've never tried it myself. But as far as I know, you won't be clobbering any crucial functionality as long as you always use the standard North American English keyboard layout, where the left and right Alt keys are normally set up to do the same thing. The situation is different if you ever use certain other keyboard layouts, including the Canadian French, British English and virtually all European and South American layouts. In much of the world, the right Alt key is used as a third-level shift key to produce "alternate" characters (much the way the Option key is used on the Mac), and is marked "AltGr", for "Alternate Graphic". Especially important is the euro sign, which is usually mapped to AltGr/RAlt+E or AltGr/RAlt+5; this mapping was necessary because the euro sign came into being after most national keyboard layouts had been standardized, so there was no place for it otherwise. As ever, there's a Wikipedia page on this topic: . If you don't need this functionality, however, you should be good to go (as long as xmodmap lets you do the remapping). Of course, certain programs might have their own ideas, particularly games. Does anyone here know of any programs that differentiate between the two Alt keys even when you're using the North American English keyboard layout? If any do, they're breaking international compatibility. Amanda ----- Original message ----- From: "Evan Leibovitch" To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 14:00:26 -0400 Subject: [TLUG]: Superkey? Hey folks. Upon installing Beryl on a Kubuntu system, I found that some of the features require "Superkey+" to get to. Apparently "Superkey" is normally the 'windows' key on conventional PC keyboards -- but such key doesn't exist on my laptop. I've looked at the keyboard mapping using xmodmap and apparently, the right Alt key appears not to be mapped to anything. How easy is it to do this mapping to that the right Alt key performs this function? Am I clobbering any other hidden function of Alt_R on conventional systems? Any pointers or advice is appreciated. Thanks! - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dgardiner0821-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 15 01:41:13 2007 From: dgardiner0821-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Daniel Gardiner) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:41:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Superkey? In-Reply-To: <4671823A.3090407-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4671823A.3090407@telly.org> Message-ID: <148737.80537.qm@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hey folks. > > > Upon installing Beryl on a Kubuntu system, I found > that some of the > features require "Superkey+" to get to. > > Apparently "Superkey" is normally the 'windows' key > on conventional PC > keyboards -- but such key doesn't exist on my > laptop. > > > I've looked at the keyboard mapping using xmodmap > and apparently, the > right Alt key appears not to be mapped to anything. > > > How easy is it to do this mapping to that the right > Alt key performs > this function? Am I clobbering any other hidden > function of Alt_R on > conventional systems? > > > Any pointers or advice is appreciated. Thanks! > > > - Evan > I don't suppose you're running beryl-manager? That would allow you to change the key mappings for controlling Beryl. Daniel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From edchin99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 15 01:03:01 2007 From: edchin99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (=?UTF-8?B?RWQg0K3QtNC00Lgg6Zmz5a2Q5p2+?=) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 22:03:01 -0300 Subject: Surge Suppressors In-Reply-To: <20070614200225.e65f361c.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070614200225.e65f361c.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <4671E545.5050208@gmail.com> Glen Strom wrote: > This unit also has protection for cable TV. I found that when I use > it, the cable signal degrades. I was told a signal booster would fix > the problem. Is this true? Yes - usually in the $10-$25 range - often referred to as line amps. -- ------- "If a man walks in the woods for love of them half of each day, he is in danger of being regarded as a loafer. But if he spends his days as a speculator, shearing off those woods and making the earth bald before her time, he is deemed an industrious and enterprising citizen." -Henry David Thoreau -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 15 02:06:11 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 22:06:11 -0400 Subject: Surge Suppressors In-Reply-To: <4671E545.5050208-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070614200225.e65f361c.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <4671E545.5050208@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4671F413.9010903@rogers.com> Ed ???? ??? wrote: > Glen Strom wrote: > >> This unit also has protection for cable TV. I found that when I use >> it, the cable signal degrades. I was told a signal booster would fix >> the problem. Is this true? > > Yes - usually in the $10-$25 range - often referred to as line amps. > Be careful with those, if you have a cable modem or other interactive device on that cable. If you get a unidirectional amp, they'll stop working. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 15 12:58:41 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 08:58:41 -0400 Subject: Superkey? In-Reply-To: <4671823A.3090407-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4671823A.3090407@telly.org> Message-ID: <1f13df280706150558x72a12a47p345b2cc5706f3dcd@mail.gmail.com> On 6/14/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Upon installing Beryl on a Kubuntu system, I found that some of the > features require "Superkey+" to get to. > > Apparently "Superkey" is normally the 'windows' key on conventional PC > keyboards -- but such key doesn't exist on my laptop. > > I've looked at the keyboard mapping using xmodmap and apparently, the > right Alt key appears not to be mapped to anything. > > How easy is it to do this mapping to that the right Alt key performs > this function? Am I clobbering any other hidden function of Alt_R on > conventional systems? xmodmap -e "add Mod4 = Menu" xmodmap -e "keysym Menu = Super_L" This isn't exactly what you need, but it's close: unfortunately, I did it about a year ago so the details are no longer in my head. My laptop has only one Windows key, and I wanted two - one on either side of the space bar. I had a "Menu" key which I never used in the same position as the Windows key on the other side of the Space bar. The first line above changes the Menu key to act like the Mod4 key. The second line ... I believe it's there because the Menu key was still spitting some extra inappropriate codes and this fixed the problem. Put these lines in your ~/.xinitrc or ~/.xsession. So ... get out yer "man xmodmap" and look for the "-e" section and I think you'll figure it out pretty quickly. You may also need xev to figure out the exact name and number of the key(s) you're trying to remap. Good luck. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 15 14:15:30 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 10:15:30 -0400 Subject: Surge Suppressors In-Reply-To: <4671E545.5050208-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070614200225.e65f361c.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <4671E545.5050208@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070615141530.GW10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 14, 2007 at 10:03:01PM -0300, Ed ???????? ????????? wrote: > Glen Strom wrote: > > >This unit also has protection for cable TV. I found that when I use > >it, the cable signal degrades. I was told a signal booster would fix > >the problem. Is this true? > > Yes - usually in the $10-$25 range - often referred to as > line amps. Just make sure it is digital cable capable. Some cheap ones only cover the analog cable frequency range and will simply cuit off the rest or at least not do well with it. The digital cable ready ones also allow signals to flow both ways through the amplifier, which for a cable modem (and digital cable box) is rather essential. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 15 15:01:12 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:01:12 -0400 Subject: Fedora 7 Audio Message-ID: <200706151101.12682.mervc@eol.ca> I just created a new user on this install and he has no permissions for audio. I was surprised to see no audio group so wonder if Fedora have some other way of doing things? One message from a Google search said to add the user to the audio group, but didn't suggest creating one. Root and the first user created during the install do have working audio without the group. Incidentally I am not impressed with Fedora 7 install, upgrading from FC-6 is a pain with the switch from hda to sda, it doesn't handle it well. It won't install on one computer, complains about the swap partition being unusable [ it is 2 gb] . There doesn't seem to be any monitor recognition, 3 installs have all been a 1024 x 768, a nice safe bet that it will work, I guess. I never used my FC-6 install and I suspect the new release will get the same attention. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 15 15:27:04 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:27:04 -0400 Subject: Fedora 7 Audio In-Reply-To: <200706151101.12682.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200706151101.12682.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4672AFC8.6060007@utoronto.ca> Merv Curley wrote: > I just created a new user on this install and he has no permissions for audio. > I was surprised to see no audio group so wonder if Fedora have some other way > of doing things? > > One message from a Google search said to add the user to the audio group, but > didn't suggest creating one. Root and the first user created during the > install do have working audio without the group. > > Incidentally I am not impressed with Fedora 7 install, upgrading from FC-6 is > a pain with the switch from hda to sda, it doesn't handle it well. It won't > install on one computer, complains about the swap partition being unusable [ > it is 2 gb] . There doesn't seem to be any monitor recognition, 3 installs > have all been a 1024 x 768, a nice safe bet that it will work, I guess. I > never used my FC-6 install and I suspect the new release will get the same > attention. Odd, my experience (kde live installer) has been the inverse of yours -- my user had audio the moment I logged in, my display was autodetected, and my hard drives look and act exactly like they always have (SATA though). Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 15 16:11:44 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 12:11:44 -0400 Subject: Surge Suppressors In-Reply-To: <2947.74.98.135.89.1181868883.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20070614200225.e65f361c.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <2947.74.98.135.89.1181868883.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20070615121144.f7f40388.gstrom@teksavvy.com> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 20:54:43 -0400 (EDT) phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > The phone line *has* a surge protector, usually near the building > entry point, which is meant to protect phones (and their accompanying > humanoid companions) from destruction during a lightning strike. (My > recollection is that there is a spark gap and two thyristors.) So, is > surge protection really required on a phone line? > I had an experience several years ago that makes me think it might be important. Right after a nasty storm, I noticed the light on my answering machine was off. When I checked, I found that not only had some kind of surge taken the machine off-line, but my telephone's memory had been wiped clean. I had to reprogram it and put the phone numbers back in. Since my DSL modem is connected to the phone line and my computer, I would think that the modem, and my computer, is potentially as vulnerable to a surge as that phone was. I did some googling and found several power companies that state in their FAQ's that they suggest surge protection for phones and modems. Mind you, I also found some dissenting opinions, so I remain as unsure as before. -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 15 16:45:05 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 12:45:05 -0400 Subject: Update to Flash, Firefox Problem Message-ID: <20070615124505.5b7b060f.gstrom@teksavvy.com> There's a new beta release of Flash 9 for Linux at the Adobe Labs website. I've tried it out briefly with Firefox 2.0.0.4 at sites that gave me trouble before and so far there have been no crashes. You can get the beta here: http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer9.html -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 16 04:18:13 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 00:18:13 -0400 Subject: help with sed Message-ID: <1e55af990706152118o2619b003g56abfccf40c49073@mail.gmail.com> In Konqueror, I can right-click a wav file and I see an action to encode it. But I notice that it won't work with some filenames. I tracked down the commandline being used, and I see that sed is removing .wav from the end of the input thusly: lame %f `echo %f | sed 's/\\\\\\\\.wav$$//'`.mp3 But this won't work on complex filenames, such as: Lacuna Coil [2005, in a Reverie (reissue) #03] - Honeymoon Suite.wav What can I do to correct this commandline and keep using sed to remove .wav from the end of the filename? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 16 04:38:37 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 00:38:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: help with sed In-Reply-To: <1e55af990706152118o2619b003g56abfccf40c49073-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990706152118o2619b003g56abfccf40c49073@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Jun 2007, Sy Ali wrote: > In Konqueror, I can right-click a wav file and I see an action to encode it. > > But I notice that it won't work with some filenames. I tracked down > the commandline being used, and I see that sed is removing .wav from > the end of the input thusly: > > lame %f `echo %f | sed 's/\\\\\\\\.wav$$//'`.mp3 > > But this won't work on complex filenames, such as: > > Lacuna Coil [2005, in a Reverie (reissue) #03] - Honeymoon Suite.wav > > What can I do to correct this commandline and keep using sed to remove > ..wav from the end of the filename? lame %f `echo %f | sed 's/.wav$//'`.mp3 -- Chris F.A. Johnson ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 16 04:40:34 2007 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 00:40:34 -0400 Subject: help with sed In-Reply-To: <1e55af990706152118o2619b003g56abfccf40c49073-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990706152118o2619b003g56abfccf40c49073@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070616044034.B961B854FC@sarg.ryerson.ca> I don't know what all those backslashes are for: ; f='a b c.wav' ; echo `echo $f | sed 's/\\\\\\\\.wav$$//'`.mp3 a b c.wav.mp3 ; ls -l `echo $f | sed 's/\\.wav$//'`.mp3 ls: a: No such file or directory ls: b: No such file or directory ls: c.mp3: No such file or directory ; ls -l "`echo $f | sed 's/\\.wav$//'`.mp3" ls: a b c.mp3: No such file or directory So the answer is to put " around the backquotes. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 16 04:53:53 2007 From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 00:53:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: help with sed Message-ID: <200706160453.l5G4rrH1001271@localhost.generalconcepts.com> | lame %f `echo %f | sed 's/\\\\\\\\.wav$$//'`.mp3 | | What can I do to correct this commandline and keep using sed to remove | ..wav from the end of the filename? Don't know if you *have* to use sed - the more common approach is this: lame %f `basename %f .wav`.mp3 or perhaps (depending on how %f works) lame "%f" `basename "%f" .wav`.mp3 John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 16 12:10:20 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 12:10:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: help with sed References: <1e55af990706152118o2619b003g56abfccf40c49073@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Chris F.A. Johnson writes: > lame %f `echo %f | sed 's/.wav$//'`.mp3 '%f' suggests this runs under Win32 ? Or csh ? In bash: lame "$f" "${f%%.wav}.mp3" (somehow I had expected you (CFAJ) to write this ;-) Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 16 12:24:21 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 12:24:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: if BC can do it why not in Ontario? References: <200706060922.09616.ican@netrover.com> <20070606145834.GO10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070606114757.7f2d0cde@david.chipman> <20070606193447.GP10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Lennart Sorensen writes: > I think they are amazingly stupid rules, and I don't even like alcohol. You may find that most 'civilized' cold weather countries in the Northern Hemisphere have draconic alcohol laws. In Russia etc the draconic laws consist in not allowing any full bottles to remain full ... (just kidding). But compare with e.g. Scandinavia, Britain etc., and relate this to 'southern' countries like Greece or Italy. There seems to be a pattern here. Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 16 12:41:58 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 12:41:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: help with sed References: <1e55af990706152118o2619b003g56abfccf40c49073@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Peter P. writes: > '%f' suggests this runs under Win32 ? Or csh ? In bash: > lame "$f" "${f%%.wav}.mp3" Scratch that, %f is substituted by K. So this should work: /bin/bash -ce 'f=%f; lame "$f" "${f%%.wav}.mp3"' Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 16 14:30:54 2007 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:30:54 -0400 Subject: [General] SHARCNET Employment Opportunity (fwd) Message-ID: Hi All, I saw this job posting on another e-mail list I'm subscribed to. I hope you don't mind my forwarding it on in case anyone's interested. I have no involvement at all in this, so please contact them directly if you are interested. Alex ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 10:54:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [General] SHARCNET Employment Opportunity SHARCNET is currently seeking High-Performance Computing Programming Specialists. We expect to have up to three positions available in this competition. The positions will be located at one of the SHARCNET institutions but the precise location of each position is flexible. SHARCNET provides some of the most powerful HPC infrastructure in Canada for academic research. As part of our mission to enable excellent research, we are looking for advanced programming specialists to support the user community in leveraging this infrastructure for forefront computational projects. The programming specialists will be responsible for supporting identified research projects, in both traditional HPC disciplines (e.g., physics, chemistry, engineering) and disciplines newer to HPC (e.g., bio-informatics, finance, social science and the humanities), that can take advantage of our HPC infrastructure to realize new results of international significance; providing advice and training on advanced computational algorithms and techniques; undertaking significant program development including large-scale parallel applications and/or novel algorithms and optimization for large systems. It is anticipated that the programming specialists will work closely with research groups and this work may lead to joint publications. Candidates for these positions must have an M.S., or preferably a Ph.D., in a scientific discipline, related discipline, or equivalent experience. Candidates must possess demonstrated experience programming in at least two of Fortran90/95, C and C++; excellent verbal and written communication skills; demonstrated application programming experience under UNIX and Linux operating system or under two or more mainframe/supercomputing operating systems; and demonstrated experience with cluster/MPI programming and/or parallelization techniques including expertise with debugging, profiling and optimizing largescale parallel applications. In addition, candidates must have demonstrated knowledge of numerical algorithms, such as those used in linear algebra, the solution of PDEs, FFTs etc., and knowledge of standard numerical packages and libraries. Experience in a university research environment is an asset. These are full-time positions with three years of guaranteed funding available, with the potential for renewal. Qualified applicants may apply in confidence by submitting a resume on or before July 15, 2007 to: SHARCNET Job Opportunities c/o The University of Western Ontario Western Science Centre, Room 143 London, Ontario, CANADA N6A 5B7 PH: (519) 661-4000 FAX: (519) 850-2500 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 16 15:13:59 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 11:13:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: help with sed In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990706152118o2619b003g56abfccf40c49073@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Jun 2007, Peter P. wrote: > Chris F.A. Johnson writes: > >> lame %f `echo %f | sed 's/.wav$//'`.mp3 > > '%f' suggests this runs under Win32 ? Or csh ? In bash: > > lame "$f" "${f%%.wav}.mp3" > > (somehow I had expected you (CFAJ) to write this ;-) I didn't, because it was not clear whether it was being processed by a shell, and if not, sed is much more efficient than invoking a shell just to perform parameter expansion. -- Chris F.A. Johnson ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjh-tkNKonCg4laeFQavDyXPBQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 16 15:17:12 2007 From: rjh-tkNKonCg4laeFQavDyXPBQ at public.gmane.org (Robin Humble) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 11:17:12 -0400 Subject: Fedora 7 Audio In-Reply-To: <200706151101.12682.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200706151101.12682.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20070616151712.GB28889@lemming.cita.utoronto.ca> On Fri, Jun 15, 2007 at 11:01:12AM -0400, Merv Curley wrote: >I just created a new user on this install and he has no permissions for audio. >I was surprised to see no audio group so wonder if Fedora have some other way >of doing things? logged in local users (gui or virtual console, not remote) automatically have permission to use audio devices. hasn't it always been that way in fedora/redhat? actually to be precise, probably one user has permissions at a time. there's some new fangled 'fast user switching' in fedora now that I haven't tried at all, but presumably it lets you have 2 desktop up for different users and audio permissions must toggle back and forward as you switch users. on the occasions I want to use audio remotely I chmod 666 /dev/snd/* which satisfies any modern (ALSA) app. if there are OSS-only programs then /dev/{mixer,dsp,audio} might be enough. network audio server is also in f7. I haven't investigated how/why it operates. if you figure it out then please let me know. >One message from a Google search said to add the user to the audio group, but >didn't suggest creating one. Root and the first user created during the >install do have working audio without the group. you can do anything traditionally unix that you want to. if you want the changes to stick then you'll likely have to play with /etc/security/console.perms.d/50-default.perms and other /etc/security/ settings too. >Incidentally I am not impressed with Fedora 7 install, upgrading from FC-6 is don't use it then :) f7 works well on this dell 1210 laptop - I installed it from the Live dvd which is prob a good way to see if it looks like it's going to know about your hardware... compiz is fun. ooffice is 64bit. actually for kicks I did a 'yum remove glibc.i686' which removed every i386 app, so until I need a realplay or to watch youtube it's a pure 64bit fedora for a change. cheers, robin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 16 15:42:25 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 11:42:25 -0400 Subject: Fedora 7 Audio In-Reply-To: <20070616151712.GB28889-Xa+LbO3DC1G2Q0qicKDiVp4VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org> References: <200706151101.12682.mervc@eol.ca> <20070616151712.GB28889@lemming.cita.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <467404E1.7000408@utoronto.ca> Robin Humble wrote: > On Fri, Jun 15, 2007 at 11:01:12AM -0400, Merv Curley wrote: >> I just created a new user on this install and he has no permissions for audio. >> I was surprised to see no audio group so wonder if Fedora have some other way >> of doing things? > > logged in local users (gui or virtual console, not remote) > automatically have permission to use audio devices. hasn't it always > been that way in fedora/redhat? > > actually to be precise, probably one user has permissions at a time. > there's some new fangled 'fast user switching' in fedora now that I > haven't tried at all, but presumably it lets you have 2 desktop up for > different users and audio permissions must toggle back and forward as > you switch users. > > on the occasions I want to use audio remotely I > chmod 666 /dev/snd/* > which satisfies any modern (ALSA) app. > if there are OSS-only programs then /dev/{mixer,dsp,audio} might be > enough. > network audio server is also in f7. I haven't investigated how/why it > operates. if you figure it out then please let me know. > >> One message from a Google search said to add the user to the audio group, but >> didn't suggest creating one. Root and the first user created during the >> install do have working audio without the group. > > you can do anything traditionally unix that you want to. > if you want the changes to stick then you'll likely have to play with > /etc/security/console.perms.d/50-default.perms > and other /etc/security/ settings too. > >> Incidentally I am not impressed with Fedora 7 install, upgrading from FC-6 is > > don't use it then :) > > f7 works well on this dell 1210 laptop - I installed it from the Live > dvd which is prob a good way to see if it looks like it's going to know > about your hardware... compiz is fun. ooffice is 64bit. actually for > kicks I did a 'yum remove glibc.i686' which removed every i386 app, so > until I need a realplay or to watch youtube it's a pure 64bit fedora for > a change. "nspluginwrapper is an Open Source compatibility plugin for Netscape 4 (NPAPI) plugins. That is, it enables you to use plugins on platforms they were not built for. For example, you can use the Adobe Flash plugin on Linux/x86_64, NetBSD and FreeBSD platforms." http://gwenole.beauchesne.info/projects/nspluginwrapper Two rpms to install, then nspluginwrapper -i libflashplayer.so and you're good to go. Flash is no reason to compromise on your 64bit system :) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 16 20:21:59 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 20:21:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: help with sed References: <1e55af990706152118o2619b003g56abfccf40c49073@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Chris F.A. Johnson writes: > > (somehow I had expected you (CFAJ) to write this > I didn't, because it was not clear whether it was being processed > by a shell, and if not, sed is much more efficient than invoking a > shell just to perform parameter expansion. It is likely that there is no need to invoke a shell for the command, but it is safer that way. The command is processed by the calling program, which substitutes the current file for %f and then calls sh anyway. so f="%f"; ... should be enough. thanks, Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 17 00:47:26 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 20:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: Centrino support Message-ID: <635638.95605.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> The following question was passed on to me by the editor of a magazine I have written for. Anyone know how to make wireless play nice on Linux based Centrino laptops? One person (with the luck? / misfortune? to live) in New Jersry would appreciate an answer. Colin, [snip] > Dear Editor > > I'm so frustrated I had to write this letter. Or > I'll just stay with > Windows and give up on wireless LINUX completely. > > Intel's Centrino equipped laptops seem to be > COMPLETELY without any > workable LINUX support wireless support. > > Centrino hardware config (DELL INSPIRON 9200) = > Pentium M + IPW2200 > wireless PCI-mini card + Intel Express Chipset > > None of the LINUX magazines have addressed this > problem for YEARS!!! > > You can't blame everything on Intel.They seemed to > have given the > hardware info to the community programmers. > > > I have tried UBUNTU, FEDORA, DSL, Knoppix, SUSE, > MEPIS, Debian, > Gentoo,Mandriva. All have failed in either not > finding the card or > can't load firmware or software module(s) ending in > .ko or .so, with > an either a -2 or -5 error return codes. > > Running DMESG|grep ieee or DMESG|grep ipw to find > errors without a > way to fix it. > > See > http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/dsl-n/f/viewpost/2433.html > for some > of the typical error messages. > > ALL the sw I have seen have been command line arcane > commands. > > The XP wireless tools, Intel XP ProSET/Wireless > software is so > sophisticated it shames me as a programmer to see > how little a laptop > rates in the LINUX programming community. And > Microsoft provides its > own wireless tools too. > > WPA2 support doesn't seem to exist without exotic > additional sw i.e. > wpa-supplicant and ndiswrapper. > What order do these pieces of sw have to be > loaded??? > > This has been a non-issue of all the magazines and > writes. They are > probably using XP wireless to write about LINUX. > > > > > Very Disappointed [snip] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 17 01:41:31 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 21:41:31 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Centrino support In-Reply-To: <635638.95605.qm-7EKNVtTItHqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <635638.95605.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4674914B.4090904@utoronto.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > The following question was passed on to me by the > editor of a magazine I have written for. Anyone know > how to make wireless play nice on Linux based Centrino > laptops? > > One person (with the luck? / misfortune? to live) in > New Jersry would appreciate an answer. > http://ipw2200.sourceforge.net/firmware.php untar the firmware in /lib/firmware, maybe reboot. I've used all those distros with my Centrino laptop over the past few years, most distros have worked without any intervention on my part iirc. I didn't install it manually on my Fedora desktop box, but it's sitting there in /lib/modules, ergo... The ipw2200 driver is part of the kernel, it's totally free. The firmware is the only part that may require a user to intervene. > "None of the LINUX magazines have addressed this > problem for YEARS!!!" Not really a problem that has needed addressing, or the distros themselves have made it into a non-issue. WPA works with all those distros mentioned as well. wpa-supplicant isn't going away anytime soon, and usually (unless you have a broadcom card, and even then things are improving...) it works without any hassle. Rebuilding the ieee80211 and ipw2200 modules is straightforward as well. That is really only necessary to enable monitor mode for those cards, but I don't think that that's what the user is after in this case. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 17 01:52:31 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 21:52:31 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Centrino support In-Reply-To: <635638.95605.qm-7EKNVtTItHqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <635638.95605.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <467493DF.7090403@ve3syb.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > The following question was passed on to me by the > editor of a magazine I have written for. Anyone know > how to make wireless play nice on Linux based Centrino > laptops? A quick search of the internet for information about Linux and Centrino turned up several sites. Amongst them was http://tuxmobil.org/centrino.html. That page has many links about using Centrino under Linux. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjh-tkNKonCg4laeFQavDyXPBQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 17 03:28:54 2007 From: rjh-tkNKonCg4laeFQavDyXPBQ at public.gmane.org (Robin Humble) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 23:28:54 -0400 Subject: Fedora 7 Audio In-Reply-To: <467404E1.7000408-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200706151101.12682.mervc@eol.ca> <20070616151712.GB28889@lemming.cita.utoronto.ca> <467404E1.7000408@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070617032854.GA31084@lemming.cita.utoronto.ca> On Sat, Jun 16, 2007 at 11:42:25AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: >Robin Humble wrote: >>... for >>kicks I did a 'yum remove glibc.i686' which removed every i386 app, so >>until I need a realplay or to watch youtube it's a pure 64bit fedora for >>a change. >"nspluginwrapper is an Open Source compatibility plugin for Netscape 4 >(NPAPI) plugins. That is, it enables you to use plugins on platforms >they were not built for. For example, you can use the Adobe Flash plugin >on Linux/x86_64, NetBSD and FreeBSD platforms." > >http://gwenole.beauchesne.info/projects/nspluginwrapper > >Two rpms to install, then nspluginwrapper -i libflashplayer.so and >you're good to go. Flash is no reason to compromise on your 64bit system :) cool thanks! works :-) although I did need to install the i386/i586/i686 versions of all of the below to rebuild the nspluginwrapper rpm, and so that flash-player and realplayer will run... so my f7 box isn't just 64bit any more :-/ libXdmcp libSM glib2 atk libXinerama glibc libXi expat libXfixes libthai libXext libgcc freetype zlib cairo gnutls libXrandr libtiff alsa-lib libX11 glibc-devel libXt libXrender libjpeg libgcrypt libXft libstdc++ gtk2 fontconfig libgpg-error pango compat-libstdc++-33 libXau libICE libpng libXcursor cups-libs actually, both of these flash projects seem to be getting close to working: http://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/ http://swfdec.freedesktop.org/ but sadly they weren't up viewing to Linus's talk on youtube the last time I tried. cheers, robin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 17 03:30:56 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 23:30:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Energize IT 2007 Message-ID: <87262.22647.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, Well I spent Saturday down at the Energize IT 2007 event (which was sponsored by ... the evil software empire (no, not SCO, the huge evil empire :-) )). One point that was hammered on at length was how many more security flaws were in Linux as opposed to how few there were in MS Windows (ever see the big salt blocks that cattle farmers will put out for their animals? Would have been nice if tractor trailer loads of those blocks had been available to pass out to the attendees when those statistics were shown :-) ). I got a hands on session with MS System Center Operations Manager 2007, which seems to be a few good ideas, so buried in a pile of @#$% so thick as to be near useless. Sigh, someone should tell those folks you don't need a GUI for EVERYTHING... The food was not as good as the food served at the last Microsoft event I attended (box lunches vs. a buffet), and the swag was a lot more uneven (I came away with a small courier bag, a MS mouse, a 256 MB flash memory key and some demo/beta versions of MS software which is a better combo. than I gather many who were there got). I did see a few familiar faces at the event, some of whom are on this mailing list (so I will let them speak up if the want to... :-) ). I did tell one of the Microsoft folks about my encounter with their PR people. On the morning of June 5th (a week ago Tuesday) I got a phone call from a magazine editor (a magazine I have NEVER written for), neat, but he wants two 1,500 word articles by end of June 8th, each article to cover several issues. Needless to say I said sure I can do this. So, I start phoning and/or e-mailing local open source related folks thinking cool, I can help them get some good PR and they can help me quickly (which worked well, I got good to great, quick to very quick answers). I also touched base with Xandros and Microsoft re: their recent deal. The Xandros PR person gave me a solid enough answer to work with in about 2 hours. The Microsoft people gave me a "we got your e-mail and will get back to" response in about two hours. Thursday morning I sent a follow-up e-mail noting I hadn't heard anything and I noted I had a deadline (a deadline made worse by a 2nd editor asking for a 3rd article from me...). By end of Thursday I had an incomplete answer out of MS. Bottom line was an article that was by my standards quite tough on MS, not out of a real wish to be tough (when I write for publication I TRY to be nice :-) ). But when I am hearing from the user community and one of the firms in question isn't talking, well... Any event the articles were sent in shortly ahead of deadline. Now I wait for word if they have been accepted. I tried to tell the MS folks I spoke to that if they want the press to be nice to them, they have to be nice in return... Other stuff, I was crazy enough to wear a (very small) Tux pin, and I did make notes through the event on a notepad with the Red Hat logo on it :-) . One of the Microsoft people did make a neutral mention the Tux pin, otherwise nothing:-) . Some outside groups had booths at the event. I spoke to one of the people at the TASK (Toronto Area Security Klatch www.task.to) booth who noted their group is OS neutral, they deal with issues on all platforms. This leaves me to wonder what their meetings are like, 4 hours of Windows problems, followed by 2 minutes for the *BSDs and 2 minutes for Linux :-) ? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 17 04:18:55 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 00:18:55 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 14/06/07, David J Patrick wrote: > > Ben Powers, Ardour user, enthusiast and the guy who's writing the > manual, will be leading a workshop this Sunday from 4pm-6pm anyone ? it's gonna be good ! djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org OR davamundo-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 17 05:24:09 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 01:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Energize IT 2007 In-Reply-To: <87262.22647.qm-PUkK9LDfIAyB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <87262.22647.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: | From: Colin McGregor | Some outside groups had booths at the event. I spoke | to one of the people at the TASK (Toronto Area | Security Klatch www.task.to) booth who noted their | group is OS neutral, they deal with issues on all | platforms. This leaves me to wonder what their | meetings are like, 4 hours of Windows problems, | followed by 2 minutes for the *BSDs and 2 minutes for | Linux :-) ? I've been to a few TASK meetings. Very different from TLUG. Sponsored -- free pizza and pop if you get there on time. Very commercial: some folks with stuff to sell (like consulting); many folks in big IT shops. These are (mostly) technical folks, not sales folks. Not much Linux or BSD. Linux is a tool. For example, there was a presentation on BackTrack 2.0, a live CD based on Slackware aimed at "pen. testing" etc. Guess: all of there notebooks and desktops are MS (perhaps a few Macbooks). To be fair, there have been diverse presentations. Paul Wouters has done several, all involving Linux. (He too has a product: a box to manage Secure DNS signing etc. He gave a talk this week on it in the TASK booth at the Infosecurity Canada conference.) Note: I'm extrapolating from too small a sample. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 18 11:43:27 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 07:43:27 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 14/06/07, David J Patrick wrote: > > Ben Powers, Ardour user, enthusiast and the guy who's writing the > manual, will be leading a workshop this Sunday from 4pm-6pm (yes, we > usually close @ 5pm Sundays) at linuxcaffe. > So if you've ever wished you could have a fully functional digital > audio workstation, c'mon down and see how it works. Benny has asked > attendees to "pay what you can" and we will be giving away copies of > the latest UbuntuStudio. You missed a rather brilliant workshop. Benny demonstrated Ardour with a expertise and humour; he knows his stiff. We learned how to set up the realtime environment, how to make sure that JACK and ALSA were running, and how arour, in combination with the Hydrogen drum synthesizer, hardware to enable clear microphone and instrument input, and Benny's favorite software synth, could be used as a powerful and comprehensive recording and mastering environment. Benny will be back, to give the workshop again, this summer, and I'll be sure to give y'all another heads up, then question; if this is, in fact, the mailing list for Toronto's linux lovers, why are interesting workshops (like this one) drawing 0 responses, from the group ? djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org OR davamundo-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 18 13:28:38 2007 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:28:38 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <92ee967a0706180628w3c1b2cf7v69022158e1e31d6e@mail.gmail.com> On 6/18/07, David J Patrick wrote: > On 14/06/07, David J Patrick wrote: > > Ben Powers, Ardour user, enthusiast and the guy who's writing the > > manual, will be leading a workshop this Sunday from 4pm-6pm (yes, we > > usually close @ 5pm Sundays) at linuxcaffe. > > So if you've ever wished you could have a fully functional digital > > audio workstation, c'mon down and see how it works. Benny has asked > > attendees to "pay what you can" and we will be giving away copies of > > the latest UbuntuStudio. > > > You missed a rather brilliant workshop. Benny demonstrated Ardour with a > expertise and humour; he knows his stiff. We learned how to set up the > realtime environment, how to make sure that JACK and ALSA were running, and > how arour, in combination with the Hydrogen drum synthesizer, hardware to > enable clear microphone and instrument input, and Benny's favorite software > synth, could be used as a powerful and comprehensive recording and mastering > environment. Benny will be back, to give the workshop again, this summer, > and I'll be sure to give y'all another heads up, then > > question; if this is, in fact, the mailing list for Toronto's linux lovers, > why are interesting workshops (like this one) drawing 0 responses, from the > group ? Not sure really. I was tied up with some personal stuff, the topic is cool to me, but only because I'm curious as to the state of this stuff on Linux. Last time I tried hacking with Jack and ALSA, I spent weeks recompiling and tweaking... but that was 4 years ago IIRC. Most of this list seems to be comprised of small business operators and programming student types. We're seeing more and more FOSS contributors though, which is cool. I'd love to attend the make-up class :-) -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 18 14:41:45 2007 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 18 Jun 2007 10:41:45 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "David J Patrick" writes: > question; if this is, in fact, the mailing list for Toronto's linux lovers, > why are interesting workshops (like this one) drawing 0 responses, from the > group ? Well, there was a greeting card company created holiday this weekend that may have taken precedence over this event (and the whole Sonora Dodd created fater's day is just propaganda from said companies :)). Seriously, though, is this a recurring pattern or just this one time? Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix care, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 18 15:16:35 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:16:35 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 18 Jun 2007 10:41:45 -0400, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > > "David J Patrick" writes: > > question; if this is, in fact, the mailing list for Toronto's linux > lovers, > > why are interesting workshops (like this one) drawing 0 responses, from > the > > group ? > > Well, there was a greeting card company created holiday this weekend that > may > have taken precedence over this event (and the whole Sonora Dodd created > fater's day is just propaganda from said companies :)). > > Seriously, though, is this a recurring pattern or just this one time? It's a pattern . The are (how many ? hundreds of subscribers to this list, if three respond to an event notice, and one shows up, that's pretty much typical. it's either; Not enough advance notice GTAlug members are all "linuxcaffe"d out The subject matter (Digital Audio Workstation, MythTV, OpenStreetMap, Wellness for IT Workers, and others) is not as interesting to this particular LUG as I might have thought. The New to Ubuntu workshops were well attended, but as a result of ubuntu.ca enthusiasm. The stereotype is true; most linux geeks are basement bound and socially spastic, and unless there's beer involved, you won't see one in direct sunlight. Nahh, lots of our regulars are linux users and wild enthusiastic, and cool, besides, so that can't be it. ;-) so HEADS UP, fellow geeks, the workshop will continue, and they're getting better and better. Shake those little tail feathers, flap those wings, leave the egg at home and attend or even GIVE a worksop. k ? unless yer all, like, hangin at the BSD Bistro now, er sumthin. ;-) djp Regards, > -- > g. matthew rice starnix care, toronto, ontario, ca > phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 > http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org OR davamundo-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 18 15:22:52 2007 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:22:52 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <92ee967a0706180822m668d1c47x9b757f16fd65df5f@mail.gmail.com> On 18 Jun 2007 10:41:45 -0400, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > "David J Patrick" writes: > > question; if this is, in fact, the mailing list for Toronto's linux lovers, > > why are interesting workshops (like this one) drawing 0 responses, from the > > group ? > > Well, there was a greeting card company created holiday this weekend that may > have taken precedence over this event (and the whole Sonora Dodd created > fater's day is just propaganda from said companies :)). > > Seriously, though, is this a recurring pattern or just this one time? I think it is a pattern, but I've seen it in non-linuxy stuff too. Of 50 potential attendees, 40 forget, 5 don't have conflicting plans, 4 get distracted along the way, and 1 has a 50% chance of falling in a manhole. Occasionally a weekend is so intensely boring (e.g. massive sporting event on T.V. and a slow news day on Slashdot), that all 50 just show up. I'm thinking that Matthew's right, Father's day probably skewed the figures this time. Maybe Slashdot needs geographic categories... then Caffe Events could make headlines in the "Toronto" category. hmm... -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 18 16:38:28 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:38:28 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200706181238.28772.mervc@eol.ca> On Monday 18 June 2007 07:43, David J Patrick wrote: > > question; if this is, in fact, the mailing list for Toronto's linux lovers, > why are interesting workshops (like this one) drawing 0 responses, from the > group ? > For me partly. traveling to Richmond Hill and then Newcastle to receive homage from sons and families on that day. I haven't been downtown for some years mainly due to parking concerns and the possibility of wasting time and TTC fares on something of questionable help. I never missed TLUG meetings in the early years at Ryerson etc. but after a few disappointing sessions at the U of T. location I no longer attend. Your location is for downtowners, us suburbanites have lives where we live, sorry 'bout that. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 18 16:43:40 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:43:40 -0400 Subject: Fedora 7 Audio In-Reply-To: <4672AFC8.6060007-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200706151101.12682.mervc@eol.ca> <4672AFC8.6060007@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <200706181243.40143.mervc@eol.ca> On Friday 15 June 2007 11:27, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Odd, my experience (kde live installer) has been the inverse of yours -- > my user had audio the moment I logged in, my display was autodetected, > and my hard drives look and act exactly like they always have (SATA > though). > Well no one really replied to my questions. So it seems that Fedora 7 is going to be overwritten. Trying PCLinuxOS 2007 right now on another computer but that isn't too great either. Seems that I can't escape a Debian or Debian based distro. See I carry this big cloud around with me..... -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 18 16:46:21 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:46:21 -0400 Subject: Fedora 7 Audio In-Reply-To: <200706181243.40143.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200706151101.12682.mervc@eol.ca> <4672AFC8.6060007@utoronto.ca> <200706181243.40143.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4676B6DD.8040808@utoronto.ca> Merv Curley wrote: > On Friday 15 June 2007 11:27, Jamon Camisso wrote: > >> Odd, my experience (kde live installer) has been the inverse of yours -- >> my user had audio the moment I logged in, my display was autodetected, >> and my hard drives look and act exactly like they always have (SATA >> though). >> > > Well no one really replied to my questions. So it seems that Fedora 7 is > going to be overwritten. Trying PCLinuxOS 2007 right now on another computer > but that isn't too great either. Seems that I can't escape a Debian or Debian > based distro. What's to escape? Them's fightin' words. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 18 16:49:47 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:49:47 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6/18/07, David J Patrick wrote: > > > > On 18 Jun 2007 10:41:45 -0400, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > > > > "David J Patrick" writes: > > > question; if this is, in fact, the mailing list for Toronto's linux > > lovers, > > > why are interesting workshops (like this one) drawing 0 responses, > > from the > > > group ? > > > > Well, there was a greeting card company created holiday this weekend > > that may > > have taken precedence over this event (and the whole Sonora Dodd created > > fater's day is just propaganda from said companies :)). > > > > Seriously, though, is this a recurring pattern or just this one time? > > > It's a pattern . The are (how many ? hundreds of subscribers to this list, > if three respond to an event notice, and one shows up, that's pretty much > typical. > > it's either; > > Not enough advance notice > > GTAlug members are all "linuxcaffe"d out > > The subject matter (Digital Audio Workstation, MythTV, OpenStreetMap, > Wellness for IT Workers, and others) is not as interesting to this > particular LUG as I might have thought. The New to Ubuntu workshops were > well attended, but as a result of ubuntu.ca enthusiasm. > > The stereotype is true; most linux geeks are basement bound and socially > spastic, and unless there's beer involved, you won't see one in direct > sunlight. Nahh, lots of our regulars are linux users and wild enthusiastic, > and cool, besides, so that can't be it. ;-) > > so HEADS UP, fellow geeks, the workshop will continue, and they're getting > better and better. Shake those little tail feathers, flap those wings, leave > the egg at home and attend or even GIVE a worksop. k ? > > unless yer all, like, hangin at the BSD Bistro now, er sumthin. > ;-) > djp, I really wanted to attend this event, but had (quite enjoyable) family obligations to take care of on Sunday. Although I freely admit my computers are in my basement, it's because I live in a tiny bungalow, and have to make use of all available space. And my shoulders and chest are reddish-pink because I spent the sunny Sunday afternoon splashing in my parents' pool. If this event is ever offered again, I will certainly try to attend. Don't stop offering these seminars -- as a member of the TLUG community, I greatly appreciate the offer -- I just need to fit them into my schedule. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 18 17:35:35 2007 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 13:35:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2007, David J Patrick wrote: > It's a pattern . The are (how many ? hundreds of subscribers to this list, > if three respond to an event notice, and one shows up, that's pretty much > typical. it's either; > > Not enough advance notice I tend to agree with the 'not enough advance notice' point. There have been quite a few interesting LUG topics in the last six months that I had to miss because the announcement went out 'the day of' or 'the day before' and it was impossible to move existing plans. If these announcements went out say 3 or 4 days in advance, I could schedule/plan properly and attend more. Terry -- Terry Tanski, BSc RHCE Email: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 18 18:15:24 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 14:15:24 -0400 Subject: if BC can do it why not in Ontario? In-Reply-To: References: <200706060922.09616.ican@netrover.com> <20070606145834.GO10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070606114757.7f2d0cde@david.chipman> <20070606193447.GP10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070618181524.GX10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 16, 2007 at 12:24:21PM +0000, Peter P. wrote: > You may find that most 'civilized' cold weather countries in the Northern > Hemisphere have draconic alcohol laws. In Russia etc the draconic laws consist > in not allowing any full bottles to remain full ... (just kidding). But compare > with e.g. Scandinavia, Britain etc., and relate this to 'southern' countries > like Greece or Italy. There seems to be a pattern here. I don't know about the rest of scandinavia, but Denmark is very free going when it comes to alcohol. People walking down the street driking a beer is perfectly normal, and you can certainly buy beer in any grocery store. Quebec sees fairly reasonable though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 18 18:16:51 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 14:16:51 -0400 Subject: Fedora 7 Audio In-Reply-To: <4676B6DD.8040808-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200706151101.12682.mervc@eol.ca> <4672AFC8.6060007@utoronto.ca> <200706181243.40143.mervc@eol.ca> <4676B6DD.8040808@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070618181651.GY10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 12:46:21PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > What's to escape? Them's fightin' words. Debian even uses an audio group so permissions are simple to use and understand rather than redhat's silly mess. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 18 18:21:12 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 14:21:12 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: <200706181238.28772.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200706181238.28772.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <22e435080706181121j6a86b691pb7d5aed3867fa104@mail.gmail.com> On 6/18/07, Merv Curley wrote: > Your location is for downtowners, us suburbanites have lives where we live, > sorry 'bout that. Unfortunately this is quite true, I know it is was stops me from attending both TLUG meetings and events at the linuxcaffe. SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 18 18:24:23 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 14:24:23 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070618182423.GZ10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 11:16:35AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > It's a pattern . The are (how many ? hundreds of subscribers to this list, > if three respond to an event notice, and one shows up, that's pretty much > typical. > > it's either; > > Not enough advance notice > > GTAlug members are all "linuxcaffe"d out > > The subject matter (Digital Audio Workstation, MythTV, OpenStreetMap, > Wellness for IT Workers, and others) is not as interesting to this > particular LUG as I might have thought. The New to Ubuntu workshops were > well attended, but as a result of ubuntu.ca enthusiasm. > > The stereotype is true; most linux geeks are basement bound and socially > spastic, and unless there's beer involved, you won't see one in direct > sunlight. Nahh, lots of our regulars are linux users and wild enthusiastic, > and cool, besides, so that can't be it. ;-) > > so HEADS UP, fellow geeks, the workshop will continue, and they're getting > better and better. Shake those little tail feathers, flap those wings, leave > the egg at home and attend or even GIVE a worksop. k ? > > unless yer all, like, hangin at the BSD Bistro now, er sumthin. > ;-) I just don't really know anything about synthesizers and such, and have no idea what I would do with it if I did know something. Oh and I was in Montreal for the weekend. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 18 20:34:06 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:34:06 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: <200706181238.28772.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200706181238.28772.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4676EC3E.9000000@rogers.com> Merv Curley wrote: > On Monday 18 June 2007 07:43, David J Patrick wrote: > > >> question; if this is, in fact, the mailing list for Toronto's linux lovers, >> why are interesting workshops (like this one) drawing 0 responses, from the >> group ? >> >> > For me partly. traveling to Richmond Hill and then Newcastle > Carrying coals? ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 18 20:36:55 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:36:55 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4676ECE7.1070303@rogers.com> ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org wrote: > On Mon, 18 Jun 2007, David J Patrick wrote: > > >> It's a pattern . The are (how many ? hundreds of subscribers to this list, >> if three respond to an event notice, and one shows up, that's pretty much >> typical. it's either; >> >> Not enough advance notice >> > > I tend to agree with the 'not enough advance notice' point. There have > been quite a few interesting LUG topics in the last six months that I > had to miss because the announcement went out 'the day of' or 'the day > before' and it was impossible to move existing plans. If these > announcements went out say 3 or 4 days in advance, I could schedule/plan > properly and attend more. > > Terry > > I agree the short notices for TLUG is a problem. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 18 20:40:02 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:40:02 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: <22e435080706181121j6a86b691pb7d5aed3867fa104-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200706181238.28772.mervc@eol.ca> <22e435080706181121j6a86b691pb7d5aed3867fa104@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4676EDA2.2080007@rogers.com> Sheldon Mustard wrote: > On 6/18/07, Merv Curley wrote: >> Your location is for downtowners, us suburbanites have lives where >> we live, >> sorry 'bout that. > > Unfortunately this is quite true, I know it is was stops me from > attending both TLUG meetings and events at the linuxcaffe. > > SJM > Agreed. Coming to TLUG meetings often means fighting traffic to get there. The LinuxCafe is simply not in a reasonably handy location for 905'ers. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 19 16:50:05 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:50:05 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: <22e435080706181121j6a86b691pb7d5aed3867fa104-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200706181238.28772.mervc@eol.ca> <22e435080706181121j6a86b691pb7d5aed3867fa104@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4678093D.6080205@telly.org> Sheldon Mustard wrote: > On 6/18/07, Merv Curley wrote: >> Your location is for downtowners, us suburbanites have lives where >> we live, >> sorry 'bout that. > > Unfortunately this is quite true, I know it is was stops me from > attending both TLUG meetings and events at the linuxcaffe. So how many of you attend the suburban NewTLUG meetings, which alternate between the northwest (York U campus, Keele & Finch) and the northeast (IBM campus, Steeles near Warden)? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 19 17:06:29 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:06:29 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: <4678093D.6080205-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200706181238.28772.mervc@eol.ca> <22e435080706181121j6a86b691pb7d5aed3867fa104@mail.gmail.com> <4678093D.6080205@telly.org> Message-ID: <22e435080706191006l6a054e4dvd2c5de9a4d2cd205@mail.gmail.com> On 6/19/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Unfortunately this is quite true, I know it is was stops me from > > attending both TLUG meetings and events at the linuxcaffe. > > So how many of you attend the suburban NewTLUG meetings, which alternate > between the northwest (York U campus, Keele & Finch) and the northeast > (IBM campus, Steeles near Warden)? > There is one other issue which is infinitely more difficult then geography ... permission from the wife ;). Hopefully my kids will be big enough soon I can bring them and they will sit in a chair and listen and maybe get something out of it. SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 19 17:13:23 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:13:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: <4678093D.6080205-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200706181238.28772.mervc@eol.ca> <22e435080706181121j6a86b691pb7d5aed3867fa104@mail.gmail.com> <4678093D.6080205@telly.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2007, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Sheldon Mustard wrote: > >> On 6/18/07, Merv Curley wrote: >>> Your location is for downtowners, us suburbanites have lives where >>> we live, >>> sorry 'bout that. >> >> Unfortunately this is quite true, I know it is was stops me from >> attending both TLUG meetings and events at the linuxcaffe. > > So how many of you attend the suburban NewTLUG meetings, which alternate > between the northwest (York U campus, Keele & Finch) and the northeast > (IBM campus, Steeles near Warden)? For all *TLUG meetings, lack of notice is a major problem. There should be at least a week's notice of a meeting, and a reminder the day before. For NewTLUG, the travel time is also a factor; I have yet to make it to one of them. -- Chris F.A. Johnson ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 19 18:12:29 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 14:12:29 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: References: <200706181238.28772.mervc@eol.ca> <22e435080706181121j6a86b691pb7d5aed3867fa104@mail.gmail.com> <4678093D.6080205@telly.org> Message-ID: <46781C8D.8090500@telly.org> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > For all *TLUG meetings, lack of notice is a major problem. There > should be at least a week's notice of a meeting, and a reminder > the day before. Come on. TLUG has been meeting regularly on the 2nd Tuesday of the month for more than a decade. It may be a problem for those looking to pick and choose specific topics, but not a problem with the general issue of "when is the next meeting?". The meeting location has also been reasonably stable. Te argument of lack of specific notice is legitimate in the reasons why TLUG doen't attract a lot of newcomers. However, people who have been here for a while ought to be at least aware of the recurring pattern of meeting dates/places. > For NewTLUG, the travel time is also a factor; I have yet to make > it to one of them. The decision to have NewTLUG in the north, while TLUG remained central, was deliberate. If you couldn't make downtown easily, you could do the uptown events and vice versa. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 19 18:17:27 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 14:17:27 -0400 Subject: Toronto Star extended obit for Gerry Singleton Message-ID: <46781DB7.1000502@telly.org> http://www.thestar.com/article/226447 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 19 18:20:32 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 14:20:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: <46781C8D.8090500-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200706181238.28772.mervc@eol.ca> <22e435080706181121j6a86b691pb7d5aed3867fa104@mail.gmail.com> <4678093D.6080205@telly.org> <46781C8D.8090500@telly.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2007, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > >> For all *TLUG meetings, lack of notice is a major problem. There >> should be at least a week's notice of a meeting, and a reminder >> the day before. > > Come on. > > TLUG has been meeting regularly on the 2nd Tuesday of the month for more > than a decade. Is today the 2nd Tuesday or was that last week? I do not nroamlly pay attention to what week of the month today is. If I have ample notice, I am far more likely to attend. > It may be a problem for those looking to pick and choose specific > topics, but not a problem with the general issue of "when is the next > meeting?". Exactly. Many topics do not interest me. > The meeting location has also been reasonably stable. > > Te argument of lack of specific notice is legitimate in the reasons why > TLUG doen't attract a lot of newcomers. However, people who have been > here for a while ought to be at least aware of the recurring pattern of > meeting dates/places. It also doesn't help the rest of us. If *TLUG want to attract people, it should make it as easy as possible. >> For NewTLUG, the travel time is also a factor; I have yet to make >> it to one of them. > > The decision to have NewTLUG in the north, while TLUG remained central, > was deliberate. If you couldn't make downtown easily, you could do the > uptown events and vice versa. I realize that. When there is a topic that interests me at NewTLUG, I would be more likely to get there is I had reasonable notice. -- Chris F.A. Johnson ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 19 18:27:40 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 14:27:40 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: <46781C8D.8090500-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200706181238.28772.mervc@eol.ca> <22e435080706181121j6a86b691pb7d5aed3867fa104@mail.gmail.com> <4678093D.6080205@telly.org> <46781C8D.8090500@telly.org> Message-ID: <4678201C.2020603@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > >> For all *TLUG meetings, lack of notice is a major problem. There >> should be at least a week's notice of a meeting, and a reminder >> the day before. >> > > Come on. > > TLUG has been meeting regularly on the 2nd Tuesday of the month for more > than a decade. > It may be a problem for those looking to pick and choose specific > topics, but not a problem with the general issue of "when is the next > meeting?". > The meeting location has also been reasonably stable. > > Te argument of lack of specific notice is legitimate in the reasons why > TLUG doen't attract a lot of newcomers. However, people who have been > here for a while ought to be at least aware of the recurring pattern of > meeting dates/places. > > >> For NewTLUG, the travel time is also a factor; I have yet to make >> it to one of them. >> > > The decision to have NewTLUG in the north, while TLUG remained central, > was deliberate. If you couldn't make downtown easily, you could do the > uptown events and vice versa. > Because of the time and travel involved in getting to the meetings, I decide whether or not to go according to the topic. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 19 18:28:03 2007 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 14:28:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: <46781C8D.8090500-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <46781C8D.8090500@telly.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2007, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Te argument of lack of specific notice is legitimate in the reasons why > TLUG doen't attract a lot of newcomers. However, people who have been > here for a while ought to be at least aware of the recurring pattern of > meeting dates/places. I have been around for awhile but would still love to know (with a few days notice) whether the next session was 'How to pick your nose with Linux' or 'Load balancing primer using Pen and VRRP'! Terry -- Terry Tanski, BSc RHCE Email: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 19 18:56:06 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 14:56:06 -0400 Subject: Debian upgrade breaks nVidia support Message-ID: <20070619185606.GA9161@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I am using Debian testing, and after a recent dist-upgrade which updated xorg, I found myself without a functioning windowing environment. The problem was that X could no longer find the nvidia driver. I reconfigured X to use the nv driver, and I have a functioning windowing environment again, but I cannot find a way to use the nvidia driver and thus am not able to use OpenGL-dependent programs. There are several, older references to this problem on the web, but none of the methods (repair broken symlink (the symlink is not broken), reinstalling the drivers (done, but with no effect)) are restoring these drivers to full function. Does anyone have a suggestion? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 19 18:58:34 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 14:58:34 -0400 Subject: Debian upgrade breaks nVidia support In-Reply-To: <20070619185606.GA9161-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070619185606.GA9161@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070619185834.GB17934@watson-wilson.ca> Linking solve my problem: lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 44 2007-04-28 18:34 /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so -> /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1372276 2007-04-28 18:22 /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 47 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 19 19:25:20 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 15:25:20 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: <46781C8D.8090500-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200706181238.28772.mervc@eol.ca> <22e435080706181121j6a86b691pb7d5aed3867fa104@mail.gmail.com> <4678093D.6080205@telly.org> <46781C8D.8090500@telly.org> Message-ID: On 6/19/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > > For all *TLUG meetings, lack of notice is a major problem. There > > should be at least a week's notice of a meeting, and a reminder > > the day before. > > Come on. > > TLUG has been meeting regularly on the 2nd Tuesday of the month for more > than a decade. > It may be a problem for those looking to pick and choose specific > topics, but not a problem with the general issue of "when is the next > meeting?". > The meeting location has also been reasonably stable. Hi Evan, The original post on this thread was about a terrific workshop being offered on a Sunday at djp's Linux Caffe -- one I wish I could have gone to, because building an audio/video workstation is one of the (many) things I'd like to accomplish using Linux. I'm also kinda keen to see the inside of the Linux Caffe .. unfortunately, Father's Day also fell on that date, which for me, made it impossible to attend. As far as the monthly meetings go, I think *when* they occur is not as large an obstacle as what the topic is. I'm sure that some TLUG members go to all of the meetings, partly because they're interested in the topic, but partly because that's what they do. For example, I have chorus rehearsals every Monday night -- that's what I do. I think I've missed two rehearsals in seven or eight years. On Tuesday nights, some of us are juggling all kinds of other obligations, and have to decide if the topic is a "can't miss", as well as plan ahead so as to be able to come out. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 19 21:16:06 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 17:16:06 -0400 Subject: Debian upgrade breaks nVidia support In-Reply-To: <20070619185834.GB17934-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070619185606.GA9161@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619185834.GB17934@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070619211606.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 02:58:34PM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > Linking solve my problem: > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 44 2007-04-28 18:34 > /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so -> > /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so > > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1372276 2007-04-28 18:22 > /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so /usr/X11R6/lib is supposed to have gone away by now (or at least become only a symlink) so I would think it is a major bug in the nvidia package if it requires that link. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 20 02:05:06 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:05:06 -0400 Subject: Debian upgrade breaks nVidia support In-Reply-To: <20070619211606.GA10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070619185606.GA9161@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619185834.GB17934@watson-wilson.ca> <20070619211606.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070620020506.GA22520@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 05:16:06PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 02:58:34PM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: >> Linking solve my problem: >> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 44 2007-04-28 18:34 >> /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so -> >> /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so >> >> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1372276 2007-04-28 18:22 >> /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so > >/usr/X11R6/lib is supposed to have gone away by now (or at least become >only a symlink) so I would think it is a major bug in the nvidia package >if it requires that link. Sadly, because it means that I still don't have X with the nvidia driver, Neil's solution does not work. In fact, I had to create both the modules and the drivers directories, as they did not exist on my system. The error message I'm getting is as follows: xauth: creating new authority file /home/willyyam/.serverauth.22152 X Window System Version 1.3.0 Release Date: 19 April 2007 X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 1.3 Build Operating System: Linux Debian Current Operating System: Linux $hostname 2.6.18-4-k7 #1 SMP Mon Mar 26 17:57:15 UTC 2007 i686 Build Date: 01 June 2007 Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org to make sure that you have the latest version. Module Loader present Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Tue Jun 19 19:27:57 2007 (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" (EE) Failed to load module "nvidia" (module does not exist, 0) (EE) No drivers available. Fatal server error: no screens found XIO: fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server ":0.0" after 0 requests (0 known processed) with 0 events remaining. Any other help would be much appreciated. Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 20 02:13:58 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:13:58 -0400 Subject: Debian upgrade breaks nVidia support In-Reply-To: <20070620020506.GA22520-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070619185606.GA9161@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619185834.GB17934@watson-wilson.ca> <20070619211606.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070620020506.GA22520@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <46788D66.5070304@utoronto.ca> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 05:16:06PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 02:58:34PM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: >>> Linking solve my problem: >>> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 44 2007-04-28 18:34 >>> /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so -> >>> /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so >>> >>> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1372276 2007-04-28 18:22 >>> /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so >> /usr/X11R6/lib is supposed to have gone away by now (or at least become >> only a symlink) so I would think it is a major bug in the nvidia package >> if it requires that link. > > Sadly, because it means that I still don't have X with the nvidia > driver, Neil's solution does not work. In fact, I had to create both > the modules and the drivers directories, as they did not exist on my > system. > > The error message I'm getting is as follows: > > > xauth: creating new authority file /home/willyyam/.serverauth.22152 > > X Window System Version 1.3.0 > Release Date: 19 April 2007 > X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 1.3 > Build Operating System: Linux Debian > Current Operating System: Linux $hostname 2.6.18-4-k7 #1 SMP Mon Mar 26 17:57:15 UTC 2007 i686 > Build Date: 01 June 2007 > Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org > to make sure that you have the latest version. > Module Loader present > Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, > (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, > (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. > (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Tue Jun 19 19:27:57 2007 > (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" > (EE) Failed to load module "nvidia" (module does not exist, 0) > (EE) No drivers available. > > Fatal server error: > no screens found > XIO: fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server ":0.0" > after 0 requests (0 known processed) with 0 events remaining. > > Any other help would be much appreciated. Thanks. You mentioned you'd recompiled from nvidia's driver, where is nvidia.ko located? Try insmodding that and starting X, see what error you get then. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 20 02:18:33 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:18:33 -0400 Subject: Debian upgrade breaks nVidia support In-Reply-To: <20070620020506.GA22520-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070619185606.GA9161@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619185834.GB17934@watson-wilson.ca> <20070619211606.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070620020506.GA22520@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070619221833.42fa33be@node1.freeyourmachine.org> William O'Higgins Witteman left a post-it on the fridge: > On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 05:16:06PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 02:58:34PM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > >> Linking solve my problem: > >> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 44 2007-04-28 18:34 > >> /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so -> > >> /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so > >> > >> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1372276 2007-04-28 18:22 > >> /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so > > > >/usr/X11R6/lib is supposed to have gone away by now (or at least become > >only a symlink) so I would think it is a major bug in the nvidia package > >if it requires that link. > > Sadly, because it means that I still don't have X with the nvidia > driver, Neil's solution does not work. In fact, I had to create both > the modules and the drivers directories, as they did not exist on my > system. > > The error message I'm getting is as follows: > > > xauth: creating new authority file /home/willyyam/.serverauth.22152 > > X Window System Version 1.3.0 > Release Date: 19 April 2007 > X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 1.3 > Build Operating System: Linux Debian > Current Operating System: Linux $hostname 2.6.18-4-k7 #1 SMP Mon Mar 26 > 17:57:15 UTC 2007 i686 Build Date: 01 June 2007 > Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org > to make sure that you have the latest version. > Module Loader present > Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, > (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, > (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. > (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Tue Jun 19 19:27:57 2007 > (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" > (EE) Failed to load module "nvidia" (module does not exist, 0) > (EE) No drivers available. > > Fatal server error: > no screens found > XIO: fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server ":0.0" > after 0 requests (0 known processed) with 0 events remaining. > > Any other help would be much appreciated. Thanks. What does dmesg have to say about nvidia? dmesg | egrep -i nvidia If nothing, maybe just try loading the module manually. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: I don't know why, but when I look down at their little faces it makes me want to puke... in a good way. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 20 02:18:58 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:18:58 -0400 Subject: Toronto Star extended obit for Gerry Singleton In-Reply-To: <46781DB7.1000502-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <46781DB7.1000502@telly.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990706191918y52fc585es1c420eabb1f590fe@mail.gmail.com> On 6/19/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > http://www.thestar.com/article/226447 quote: At his wake in their home, Rena mentioned to his friends she couldn't get into his computer. They all trekked down to the basement to have a look. None could crack Singleton's program. I wonder how many of us this applies to? (says the guy who's encrypting the data on his DVD-RWs) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 20 02:27:09 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:27:09 -0400 Subject: Debian upgrade breaks nVidia support In-Reply-To: <20070619221833.42fa33be-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20070619185606.GA9161@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619185834.GB17934@watson-wilson.ca> <20070619211606.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070620020506.GA22520@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619221833.42fa33be@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20070620022709.GA25590@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 10:18:33PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: >> The error message I'm getting is as follows: >> >> >> xauth: creating new authority file /home/willyyam/.serverauth.22152 >> >> X Window System Version 1.3.0 >> Release Date: 19 April 2007 >> X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 1.3 >> Build Operating System: Linux Debian >> Current Operating System: Linux $hostname 2.6.18-4-k7 #1 SMP Mon Mar 26 >> 17:57:15 UTC 2007 i686 Build Date: 01 June 2007 >> Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org >> to make sure that you have the latest version. >> Module Loader present >> Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, >> (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, >> (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. >> (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Tue Jun 19 19:27:57 2007 >> (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" >> (EE) Failed to load module "nvidia" (module does not exist, 0) >> (EE) No drivers available. >> >> Fatal server error: >> no screens found >> XIO: fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server ":0.0" >> after 0 requests (0 known processed) with 0 events remaining. >> >> Any other help would be much appreciated. Thanks. > >What does dmesg have to say about nvidia? > >dmesg | egrep -i nvidia > >If nothing, maybe just try loading the module manually. nvidia: module license 'NVIDIA' taints kernel. NVRM: loading NVIDIA Linux x86 Kernel Module 1.0-8776 Mon Oct 16 21:56:04 PDT 2006 So, it does seem to be running that module (lsmod confirms) -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 20 02:34:36 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:34:36 -0400 Subject: Debian upgrade breaks nVidia support In-Reply-To: <46788D66.5070304-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070619185606.GA9161@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619185834.GB17934@watson-wilson.ca> <20070619211606.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070620020506.GA22520@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <46788D66.5070304@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070620023436.GB25590@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 10:13:58PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: >>The error message I'm getting is as follows: >> >> >>xauth: creating new authority file /home/willyyam/.serverauth.22152 >> >>X Window System Version 1.3.0 >>Release Date: 19 April 2007 >>X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 1.3 >>Build Operating System: Linux Debian >>Current Operating System: Linux $hostname 2.6.18-4-k7 #1 SMP Mon Mar 26 >>17:57:15 UTC 2007 i686 >>Build Date: 01 June 2007 >> Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org >> to make sure that you have the latest version. >>Module Loader present >>Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, >> (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, >> (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. >>(==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Tue Jun 19 19:27:57 2007 >>(==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" >>(EE) Failed to load module "nvidia" (module does not exist, 0) >>(EE) No drivers available. >> >>Fatal server error: >>no screens found >>XIO: fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server ":0.0" >> after 0 requests (0 known processed) with 0 events remaining. >> >>Any other help would be much appreciated. Thanks. > >You mentioned you'd recompiled from nvidia's driver, where is nvidia.ko >located? Try insmodding that and starting X, see what error you get then. I'm not sure I understand what you are suggesting, but nvidia.ko is located here /usr/src/modules/nvidia-kernel/debian/nvidia-kernel-2.6.18-4-k7/lib/modules/2.6.18-4-k7/nvidia/nvidia.ko and here /lib/modules/2.6.18-4-k7/nvidia/nvidia.ko -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 20 02:38:36 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:38:36 -0400 Subject: Debian upgrade breaks nVidia support In-Reply-To: <20070620022709.GA25590-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070619185606.GA9161@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619185834.GB17934@watson-wilson.ca> <20070619211606.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070620020506.GA22520@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619221833.42fa33be@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070620022709.GA25590@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070619223836.7bc64896@node1.freeyourmachine.org> William O'Higgins Witteman left a post-it on the fridge: > On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 10:18:33PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > > >> The error message I'm getting is as follows: > >> > >> > >> xauth: creating new authority file /home/willyyam/.serverauth.22152 > >> > >> X Window System Version 1.3.0 > >> Release Date: 19 April 2007 > >> X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 1.3 > >> Build Operating System: Linux Debian > >> Current Operating System: Linux $hostname 2.6.18-4-k7 #1 SMP Mon Mar 26 > >> 17:57:15 UTC 2007 i686 Build Date: 01 June 2007 > >> Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org > >> to make sure that you have the latest version. > >> Module Loader present > >> Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, > >> (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, > >> (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. > >> (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Tue Jun 19 19:27:57 2007 > >> (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" > >> (EE) Failed to load module "nvidia" (module does not exist, 0) > >> (EE) No drivers available. > >> > >> Fatal server error: > >> no screens found > >> XIO: fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server ":0.0" > >> after 0 requests (0 known processed) with 0 events remaining. > >> > >> Any other help would be much appreciated. Thanks. > > > >What does dmesg have to say about nvidia? > > > >dmesg | egrep -i nvidia > > > >If nothing, maybe just try loading the module manually. > > nvidia: module license 'NVIDIA' taints kernel. > NVRM: loading NVIDIA Linux x86 Kernel Module 1.0-8776 Mon Oct 16 > 21:56:04 PDT 2006 > > So, it does seem to be running that module (lsmod confirms) Wait, ver. 8776? Will that work with recent kernel/xorg versions? If you have a legacy card, I think the version you want is 7184, but I could be wrong about that. What I do know is when I upgraded to kernel 2.6.17-13 (I know, I know) I also had to upgrade my nvidia drivers, the old ones (9631) would not work. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "I love this planet. I've got wealth, fame, and access to the depths of sleaze that those things bring." -Bender -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 20 02:43:18 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:43:18 -0400 Subject: Debian upgrade breaks nVidia support In-Reply-To: <20070619223836.7bc64896-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20070619185606.GA9161@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619185834.GB17934@watson-wilson.ca> <20070619211606.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070620020506.GA22520@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619221833.42fa33be@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070620022709.GA25590@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619223836.7bc64896@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <46789446.2090509@utoronto.ca> JoeHill wrote: > William O'Higgins Witteman left a post-it on the fridge: > >> On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 10:18:33PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: >> >>>> The error message I'm getting is as follows: >>>> >>>> >>>> xauth: creating new authority file /home/willyyam/.serverauth.22152 >>>> >>>> X Window System Version 1.3.0 >>>> Release Date: 19 April 2007 >>>> X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 1.3 >>>> Build Operating System: Linux Debian >>>> Current Operating System: Linux $hostname 2.6.18-4-k7 #1 SMP Mon Mar 26 >>>> 17:57:15 UTC 2007 i686 Build Date: 01 June 2007 >>>> Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org >>>> to make sure that you have the latest version. >>>> Module Loader present >>>> Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, >>>> (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, >>>> (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. >>>> (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Tue Jun 19 19:27:57 2007 >>>> (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" >>>> (EE) Failed to load module "nvidia" (module does not exist, 0) >>>> (EE) No drivers available. >>>> >>>> Fatal server error: >>>> no screens found >>>> XIO: fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server ":0.0" >>>> after 0 requests (0 known processed) with 0 events remaining. >>>> >>>> Any other help would be much appreciated. Thanks. >>> What does dmesg have to say about nvidia? >>> >>> dmesg | egrep -i nvidia >>> >>> If nothing, maybe just try loading the module manually. >> nvidia: module license 'NVIDIA' taints kernel. >> NVRM: loading NVIDIA Linux x86 Kernel Module 1.0-8776 Mon Oct 16 >> 21:56:04 PDT 2006 >> >> So, it does seem to be running that module (lsmod confirms) > > Wait, ver. 8776? Will that work with recent kernel/xorg versions? If you have a > legacy card, I think the version you want is 7184, but I could be wrong about > that. What I do know is when I upgraded to kernel 2.6.17-13 (I know, I know) I > also had to upgrade my nvidia drivers, the old ones (9631) would not work. That the kernel loads the module is a pretty good indicator that it does/should ;) Typically the nvidia binary installer is good at doing things right with any distro I've used. I'd download that direct from nvidia and have a got with it. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 20 02:55:28 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:55:28 -0400 Subject: Debian upgrade breaks nVidia support In-Reply-To: <46789446.2090509-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070619185606.GA9161@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619185834.GB17934@watson-wilson.ca> <20070619211606.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070620020506.GA22520@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619221833.42fa33be@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070620022709.GA25590@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619223836.7bc64896@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46789446.2090509@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070619225528.71190845@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Jamon Camisso left a post-it on the fridge: > JoeHill wrote: > > William O'Higgins Witteman left a post-it on the fridge: > > > >> On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 10:18:33PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > >> > >>>> The error message I'm getting is as follows: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> xauth: creating new authority file /home/willyyam/.serverauth.22152 > >>>> > >>>> X Window System Version 1.3.0 > >>>> Release Date: 19 April 2007 > >>>> X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 1.3 > >>>> Build Operating System: Linux Debian > >>>> Current Operating System: Linux $hostname 2.6.18-4-k7 #1 SMP Mon Mar 26 > >>>> 17:57:15 UTC 2007 i686 Build Date: 01 June 2007 > >>>> Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org > >>>> to make sure that you have the latest version. > >>>> Module Loader present > >>>> Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, > >>>> (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, > >>>> (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. > >>>> (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Tue Jun 19 19:27:57 2007 > >>>> (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" > >>>> (EE) Failed to load module "nvidia" (module does not exist, 0) > >>>> (EE) No drivers available. > >>>> > >>>> Fatal server error: > >>>> no screens found > >>>> XIO: fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server ":0.0" > >>>> after 0 requests (0 known processed) with 0 events remaining. > >>>> > >>>> Any other help would be much appreciated. Thanks. > >>> What does dmesg have to say about nvidia? > >>> > >>> dmesg | egrep -i nvidia > >>> > >>> If nothing, maybe just try loading the module manually. > >> nvidia: module license 'NVIDIA' taints kernel. > >> NVRM: loading NVIDIA Linux x86 Kernel Module 1.0-8776 Mon Oct 16 > >> 21:56:04 PDT 2006 > >> > >> So, it does seem to be running that module (lsmod confirms) > > > > Wait, ver. 8776? Will that work with recent kernel/xorg versions? If you > > have a legacy card, I think the version you want is 7184, but I could be > > wrong about that. What I do know is when I upgraded to kernel 2.6.17-13 (I > > know, I know) I also had to upgrade my nvidia drivers, the old ones (9631) > > would not work. > > That the kernel loads the module is a pretty good indicator that it > does/should ;) Typically the nvidia binary installer is good at doing > things right with any distro I've used. I'd download that direct from > nvidia and have a got with it. That's what I'm running now, though to this day the colour/texture depth absolutely *sucks* in any of my games...the eternal mystery. How did you guess that the 9631 drivers were not from nvidia.com? ;-) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "Listen, Bender, where's your bathroom?" -Fry "Bath what?" -Bender "Bathroom." -Fry "What room?" -Bender "Bathroom!" -Fry "What what?" Bender "Ah, nevermind." -Fry -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 20 03:46:18 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 23:46:18 -0400 Subject: Toronto Star extended obit for Gerry Singleton In-Reply-To: <1e55af990706191918y52fc585es1c420eabb1f590fe-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <46781DB7.1000502@telly.org> <1e55af990706191918y52fc585es1c420eabb1f590fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4678A30A.5000902@telly.org> Sy Ali wrote: > quote: At his wake in their home, Rena mentioned to his friends she > couldn't get into his computer. They all trekked down to the basement > to have a look. None could crack Singleton's program. Translation: we couldn't guess the root password ;-) - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 20 04:13:00 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 00:13:00 -0400 Subject: Off Topic: Photo Conversion Message-ID: <20070620001300.a3dfb707.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Does anyone know of a reliable place that can convert old family photographs and slides to digital format? Thanks. -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 20 04:46:16 2007 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David C. Chipman) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 00:46:16 -0400 Subject: Off Topic: Photo Conversion In-Reply-To: <20070620001300.a3dfb707.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070620001300.a3dfb707.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20070620004616.79e3e5da@david.chipman> Hi Glen, > Does anyone know of a reliable place that can convert old > family photographs and slides to digital format? I imagine most photography stores should have that ability, or at least know where you should go to get it done. -David Chipman -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 20 07:43:56 2007 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 03:43:56 -0400 Subject: Off Topic: Photo Conversion In-Reply-To: <20070620004616.79e3e5da-lQMCrfjKGrJ3Ex1Y5TzZUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070620001300.a3dfb707.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070620004616.79e3e5da@david.chipman> Message-ID: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F47303B559FD@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> I did a bunch of these for a wedding anniversary last year. For the cost of it, (around 200 pics), I was able to replace my old scanner with a new one and still crank them out in about 3 hours. Quotes were around $1 per print without editing (repairs, etc) -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of David C. Chipman Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 12:46 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Off Topic: Photo Conversion Hi Glen, > Does anyone know of a reliable place that can convert old family > photographs and slides to digital format? I imagine most photography stores should have that ability, or at least know where you should go to get it done. -David Chipman -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 20 14:11:46 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 10:11:46 -0400 Subject: Toronto Star extended obit for Gerry Singleton In-Reply-To: <4678A30A.5000902-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <46781DB7.1000502@telly.org> <1e55af990706191918y52fc585es1c420eabb1f590fe@mail.gmail.com> <4678A30A.5000902@telly.org> Message-ID: <467935A2.5030307@ve3syb.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> quote: At his wake in their home, Rena mentioned to his friends she >> couldn't get into his computer. They all trekked down to the basement >> to have a look. None could crack Singleton's program. > Translation: we couldn't guess the root password ;-) I would have to assume the writer of the article didn't properly state what people were needing to do with the computer in the basement. Since they had physical access to the machine they wouldn't have needed to know any passwords to gain access to the machine unless there was a BIOS level password that prevented the machine from booting and even that could be worked around with physical access to the machine. It also goes without saying that if you can guess at the password, it wasn't a good password. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 20 14:16:49 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 10:16:49 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0706180822m668d1c47x9b757f16fd65df5f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <92ee967a0706180822m668d1c47x9b757f16fd65df5f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0706200716q3e46fbbbgc82ffd3728c5252b@mail.gmail.com> On 6/18/07, Mike Kallies wrote: > Maybe Slashdot needs geographic categories... then Caffe Events could > make headlines in the "Toronto" category. hmm... This idea kinda ties in with a concept I was thinking about proposing to CLUE. Perhaps Canada could use it's own slashdot or technocrat type site? I know Linuxcaffe and numerous LUG's have message boards, but they're not really the same. -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 20 14:26:54 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 10:26:54 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: References: <200706181238.28772.mervc@eol.ca> <22e435080706181121j6a86b691pb7d5aed3867fa104@mail.gmail.com> <4678093D.6080205@telly.org> <46781C8D.8090500@telly.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0706200726h657cb760t8ba738aa72b16897@mail.gmail.com> On 6/19/07, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Tue, 19 Jun 2007, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Te argument of lack of specific notice is legitimate in the reasons why > > TLUG doen't attract a lot of newcomers. However, people who have been > > here for a while ought to be at least aware of the recurring pattern of > > meeting dates/places. > > It also doesn't help the rest of us. If *TLUG want to attract > people, it should make it as easy as possible. I'd agree with making it as easy as possible for everyone, new folks and veterans alike. Instead of manually writing each notice and mailing it out to TLUG-Announce a few days ahead of time, why not type the meeting details into a DB and create a small cron-based mailer? If data for the next event isn't filled in, then it could simply notify the person responsible for the notices. An additional benefit of an automated mailer would be that it could easily send notices to other nearby LUG's and CLUE without adding any workload, limiting the potential for human error in the process. -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 20 14:51:26 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 10:51:26 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0706200726h657cb760t8ba738aa72b16897-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200706181238.28772.mervc@eol.ca> <22e435080706181121j6a86b691pb7d5aed3867fa104@mail.gmail.com> <4678093D.6080205@telly.org> <46781C8D.8090500@telly.org> <99a6c38f0706200726h657cb760t8ba738aa72b16897@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 6/20/07, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > On 6/19/07, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > On Tue, 19 Jun 2007, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > > Te argument of lack of specific notice is legitimate in the reasons > why > > > TLUG doen't attract a lot of newcomers. However, people who have been > > > here for a while ought to be at least aware of the recurring pattern > of > > > meeting dates/places. > > > > It also doesn't help the rest of us. If *TLUG want to attract > > people, it should make it as easy as possible. > > I'd agree with making it as easy as possible for everyone, new folks > and veterans alike. > > Instead of manually writing each notice and mailing it out to > TLUG-Announce a few days ahead of time, why not type the meeting > details into a DB and create a small cron-based mailer? If data for > the next event isn't filled in, then it could simply notify the person > responsible for the notices. Even better, since I'm now a big fan of Google Reader, is it possible to set up an RSS feed that makes these announcements? That just gives us more ways to publicize upcoming events. I did a search for feeds using 'GTALUG' yesterday, but came up dry. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 20 15:18:22 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 11:18:22 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshop; The Art of Ardour In-Reply-To: References: <200706181238.28772.mervc@eol.ca> <22e435080706181121j6a86b691pb7d5aed3867fa104@mail.gmail.com> <4678093D.6080205@telly.org> <46781C8D.8090500@telly.org> <99a6c38f0706200726h657cb760t8ba738aa72b16897@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4679453E.4050808@utoronto.ca> Alex Beamish wrote: > On 6/20/07, *Scott Elcomb* > > wrote: > > On 6/19/07, Chris F.A. Johnson > wrote: > > On Tue, 19 Jun 2007, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > > Te argument of lack of specific notice is legitimate in the > reasons why > > > TLUG doen't attract a lot of newcomers. However, people who > have been > > > here for a while ought to be at least aware of the recurring > pattern of > > > meeting dates/places. > > > > It also doesn't help the rest of us. If *TLUG want to attract > > people, it should make it as easy as possible. > > I'd agree with making it as easy as possible for everyone, new folks > and veterans alike. > > Instead of manually writing each notice and mailing it out to > TLUG-Announce a few days ahead of time, why not type the meeting > details into a DB and create a small cron-based mailer? If data for > the next event isn't filled in, then it could simply notify the person > responsible for the notices. > > > Even better, since I'm now a big fan of Google Reader, is it possible to > set up an RSS feed that makes these announcements? That just gives us > more ways to publicize upcoming events. > > I did a search for feeds using 'GTALUG' yesterday, but came up dry. Usually Special:Recentchanges and Special:Newpages can/have RSS setup. The content of the feeds leaves much to be desired however. I'm not sure about mediawiki's rss abilities outside of those pages? Chris? Sy? On a semi-related note, I've been working on an aggregator of various linux related feeds on the net, http://linuxreader.com It is rough right now as I haven't had much time to spend on it, but feedback would be good, and if anyone wants to help out, let me know. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 20 18:06:29 2007 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 14:06:29 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Centrino support In-Reply-To: <4674914B.4090904-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <635638.95605.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4674914B.4090904@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070620180629.GA6197@wp.magstar.net> On Sat, Jun 16, 2007 at 09:41:31PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > >The following question was passed on to me by the > >editor of a magazine I have written for. Anyone know > >how to make wireless play nice on Linux based Centrino > >laptops? > > > >One person (with the luck? / misfortune? to live) in > >New Jersry would appreciate an answer. > > > > http://ipw2200.sourceforge.net/firmware.php > > untar the firmware in /lib/firmware, maybe reboot. I've used all those > distros with my Centrino laptop over the past few years, most distros > have worked without any intervention on my part iirc. I didn't install > it manually on my Fedora desktop box, but it's sitting there in > /lib/modules, ergo... > > The ipw2200 driver is part of the kernel, it's totally free. The > firmware is the only part that may require a user to intervene. A very important point! I spent weeks, before I realized I had to DOWNLOAD firmware. Why can't they include them in the driver? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 20 18:56:28 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 14:56:28 -0400 Subject: [OT]: Seeking general Atomic OS usability comments In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0706141059i3ba2e492h6c12f548defbaf68-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0706141059i3ba2e492h6c12f548defbaf68@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4679785C.8050808@utoronto.ca> I tested in Camino on Mac OS X, and the resize function went all wonky on me. So I tried FireFox and found the same wonkiness. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 20 23:44:41 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 19:44:41 -0400 Subject: Dell 1110 laser printer Message-ID: <4679BBE9.3020602@rogers.com> I recently purchased a new Dell 1110 for $60 and it works well in Linux. Just select Samsung ML-1020 printer driver and it works fine. In fact, it's easier to set it up in Linux than Windows. With Linux, just plug it in, configure CUPS and it works. With Windows, you have to close that New Hardware Wizard and then install the drivers from CD. Much easier in Linux. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 21 00:14:45 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:14:45 -0400 Subject: Dell 1110 laser printer In-Reply-To: <4679BBE9.3020602-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4679BBE9.3020602@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4679C2F5.3000002@telly.org> James Knott wrote: > I recently purchased a new Dell 1110 for $60 and it works well in > Linux. Just select Samsung ML-1020 printer driver and it works fine. > In fact, it's easier to set it up in Linux than Windows. With Linux, > just plug it in, configure CUPS and it works. With Windows, you have to > close that New Hardware Wizard and then install the drivers from CD. > Much easier in Linux. > I've started to notice this as well. Based on my observations, it seems that a growing number of Windows peripherals demand that you don't connect them until loading the driver; doing otherwise will invoke Windows' driver-matching routines which will find the wrong driver. Linux, OTOH, either got it right the first time or it doesn't have the driver at all. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 21 01:38:06 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 21:38:06 -0400 Subject: OT [Fwd: Tomorrow!! ePresence Interactive Media Summer Release: v.4.0 & Media Portal] Message-ID: <4679D67E.6060709@utoronto.ca> The Knowledge Media Design Institute at the University of Toronto is presenting this. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Tomorrow!! ePresence Interactive Media Summer Release: v.4.0 & Media Portal Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 17:42:18 -0400 From: Kelly Rankin To: 'Kelly Rankin' Apologies if there are any cross postings. ** Please feel free to forward this email to other interested parties** ePresence Interactive Media http://epresence.tv announces its most exciting release ever! Attend a live webcast with Project Director and Professor, Ron Baecker, System Architect, Peter Wolf, and Usability Engineer, Rhys Causey, on Thursday June 21st, 2007 at 10:00am to 12:00 pm EDT to find out about our upcoming release of the ePresence webcasting and archiving software, v.4.0. Not only will this be our most exciting release to date - we're adding dynamic conferencing to ePresence's capabilities - this summer will also see the launch of our new community driven ePresence Media Portal and the entire ePresence webcasting and archiving software will be available for free download under a BSD license! To find out more about this summer's release, please attend the webcast on Thursday June 21st. Here's how: If you do *not* have an ePresence account, please run a system check and register at: http://media.epresence.tv/mediacontent/website_register_first.aspx?c=1 Login to the June 21st webcast at (we suggest logging in 15 minutes prior to the start time): http://media.epresence.tv/mediacontent/website_live.aspx?c=1 We would also love to hear from you after the webcast. If you have any questions or comments, please send an email to epresence-EQORsXqsY7KeFQavDyXPBQ at public.gmane.org If you would like to be removed from this list, please type "unsubscribe" in a reply to this email. Regards, Kelly Rankin Business Manager, ePresence Open Source Consortium University of Toronto http://epresence.tv 416-946-8512 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 21 08:00:27 2007 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 04:00:27 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe workshops and advance notification Message-ID: 2007/6/18, ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org : > On Mon, 18 Jun 2007, David J Patrick wrote: > > > It's a pattern . The are (how many ? hundreds of subscribers to this list, > > if three respond to an event notice, and one shows up, that's pretty much > > typical. it's either; > > > > Not enough advance notice > > I tend to agree with the 'not enough advance notice' point. There have > been quite a few interesting LUG topics in the last six months that I > had to miss because the announcement went out 'the day of' or 'the day > before' and it was impossible to move existing plans. If these > announcements went out say 3 or 4 days in advance, I could schedule/plan > properly and attend more. Hi all, hi Dave, I agree. Dave why not email out the linuxcaffe calendar to the TLUG list once a month or once every two weeks? Also it would be handy if you could list the stuff on: * the TLUG wiki, * the Seneca College zenit wiki frontpage if Mr. Selmys doesn't mind it, * upcoming.org (good because it requires no registration), * and/or Facebook (good because I can see what events my Facebook friends are going to)? Yes, it'd be a bit of work to do all that emailing and listing, but it'd be worth it: you'd get more business for your cafe. :) Btw, unrelated question: what if I ran a usability workshop/BOF once? Or an "intro to Emacs"? (I would base such an intro on Phil Sung's original slides from the new Emacs 22 online tour. It'd be short but cool.) Regards, Jason -- Jason Spiro: Linux consultant, web developer, Windows corporate trainer. No job too big or too small, whether two hours or two months. Contact me for info; to see my resume, send email with subject line "resume". +1 (416) 781-5938 / Email: info-1hdvTAswZAHQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org / MSN: jasonspiro-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 21 12:15:02 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:15:02 -0400 Subject: Nigerian school network development volunteers wanted Message-ID: A neighboring school has an exchange program with a Nigerian school system. (for more background, check out; http://linuxcaffe.ca/project/indi/nigeria) and I just found out that a representative will be flying out to Nigeria, from Ottawa, in just over two weeks. I have several laptops dedicated to the mission, and some infrastructure. The students of DAS have been collecting nickels for a year, in order to purchase any other required stuff. I would like to put together a couple of hard-core geek mash-up sessions, in order to have bundled up a turn-key thin client serving, laptop based network, in time for hand delivery. Is anyone interested in helping out ? djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org OR davamundo-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 21 12:30:52 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:30:52 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe event (sort-of) Blender festival ! Message-ID: and no, we're not making margaritas, but screening a compilation of animations done using blender.org, and featuring the acclaimed film "Elephants Dream" Open-air screenings take place Saturday night(s) from ~ 9pm - 11pm in Bickford park, across from linuxcaffe. This is a tentative announcement, as we're still compiling, and will have to learn how to author a DVD, between now and then. so if ya wanna see the state of the art, with regards to open source modeling/animation software, stand by for confirmation then come-on-down ! again sorry for the last minute notice, I be goin 18 hours a day to keep the lights burning at your OSS HQ, and these things sometimes slide. hope to see you there, djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org OR davamundo-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 21 15:42:09 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 18:42:09 +0300 Subject: Fwd: Centrino support In-Reply-To: <20070620180629.GA6197-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <635638.95605.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4674914B.4090904@utoronto.ca> <20070620180629.GA6197@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: > > The ipw2200 driver is part of the kernel, it's totally free. The > > firmware is the only part that may require a user to intervene. > > A very important point! I spent weeks, before I realized I had to > DOWNLOAD firmware. Why can't they include them in the driver? The firmware is not GPL compatable William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 21 18:30:24 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:30:24 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe event (sort-of) Blender festival ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99a6c38f0706211130k5cabacc2q914b6ce090153eca@mail.gmail.com> On 6/21/07, David J Patrick wrote: > Open-air screenings take place Saturday night(s) from ~ 9pm - 11pm in > Bickford park, across from linuxcaffe. This is a tentative > announcement, as we're still compiling, and will have to learn how to > author a DVD, between now and then. You might try Q DVD-Author. It's reported as being one of the better Linux GUI interfaces for the command line DVD Author package, but it has some issues. I've tried it a couple times, but it likes to crash and I keep running into problems during the disc-compilation stage. I received Catalyst Media Center (for Windoze) with my TV Wonder 200; if you run into trouble I'd be happy to put an .iso together for you. -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 21 19:29:31 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:29:31 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe event (sort-of) Blender festival ! In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0706211130k5cabacc2q914b6ce090153eca-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0706211130k5cabacc2q914b6ce090153eca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070621152931.2aa30000@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Scott Elcomb left a post-it on the fridge: > On 6/21/07, David J Patrick wrote: > > Open-air screenings take place Saturday night(s) from ~ 9pm - 11pm in > > Bickford park, across from linuxcaffe. This is a tentative > > announcement, as we're still compiling, and will have to learn how to > > author a DVD, between now and then. > > You might try Q DVD-Author. It's reported as being one of the better > Linux GUI interfaces for the command line DVD Author package, but it > has some issues. I've tried it a couple times, but it likes to crash > and I keep running into problems during the disc-compilation stage. > > I received Catalyst Media Center (for Windoze) with my TV Wonder 200; > if you run into trouble I'd be happy to put an .iso together for you. An alternative that's definitely worth a shot is Tovid. It's mainly a command line tool, though it does have a very simple and easy to use GUI (which has never crashed on me...). Converting almost any format to ntsc mpeg format is dead easy, as is creating a menu for the dvd . The menus can go from simple to over-the-top eye-candy. Tovid packages are available for Debian, Ubuntu and Mandriva that I'm sure of, but building even the SVN version is not exactly rocket science. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "Good news, everyone." -Professor "Uh oh. I don't like the sound of that." -Bender "You'll be making a delivery to the planet Trisaw." -Professor "Here it comes." -Bender "A mysterious world in the darkest depths of the forbidden zone." -Professor "Thank you, and goodnight." -Bender -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 21 19:48:57 2007 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:48:57 -0400 Subject: Nigerian school network development volunteers wanted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070621194857.GA25423@wp.magstar.net> On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 08:15:02AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > A neighboring school has an exchange program with a Nigerian school system. > (for more background, check out; > http://linuxcaffe.ca/project/indi/nigeria) and I just found out that a > representative will be flying out to Nigeria, from Ottawa, in just > over two weeks. I have several laptops dedicated to the mission, and > some infrastructure. The students of DAS have been collecting nickels > for a year, in order to purchase any other required stuff. I would > like to put together a couple of hard-core geek mash-up sessions, in > order to have bundled up a turn-key thin client serving, laptop based > network, in time for hand delivery. Is anyone interested in helping > out ? > djp Does USB key-based "thin client" work for you? :-) -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 21 20:26:26 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:26:26 -0400 Subject: Debian upgrade breaks nVidia support In-Reply-To: <20070620020506.GA22520-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070619185606.GA9161@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619185834.GB17934@watson-wilson.ca> <20070619211606.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070620020506.GA22520@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070621202626.GB10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 10:05:06PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Sadly, because it means that I still don't have X with the nvidia > driver, Neil's solution does not work. In fact, I had to create both > the modules and the drivers directories, as they did not exist on my > system. > > The error message I'm getting is as follows: > > > xauth: creating new authority file /home/willyyam/.serverauth.22152 > > X Window System Version 1.3.0 > Release Date: 19 April 2007 > X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 1.3 > Build Operating System: Linux Debian > Current Operating System: Linux $hostname 2.6.18-4-k7 #1 SMP Mon Mar 26 17:57:15 UTC 2007 i686 > Build Date: 01 June 2007 > Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org > to make sure that you have the latest version. > Module Loader present > Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, > (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, > (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. > (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Tue Jun 19 19:27:57 2007 > (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" > (EE) Failed to load module "nvidia" (module does not exist, 0) > (EE) No drivers available. > > Fatal server error: > no screens found > XIO: fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server ":0.0" > after 0 requests (0 known processed) with 0 events remaining. > > Any other help would be much appreciated. Thanks. > -- OK, so what version of things do you have: dpkg -l |grep nvidia dpkg -l |grep xorg-server Which nvidia card do you have? Could you include the X log file from /var/log and the xorg.conf file as well? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 21 20:34:41 2007 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:34:41 -0400 Subject: Off Topic: Photo Conversion In-Reply-To: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F47303B559FD-hbz38jcr0NLYZa0sO8Gwjj0STfaKdC/d@public.gmane.org> References: <20070620001300.a3dfb707.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070620004616.79e3e5da@david.chipman> <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F47303B559FD@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> Message-ID: <1182458081.22395.1196416995@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 03:43:56 -0400, "Dave Bour" said: > I did a bunch of these for a wedding anniversary last year. For the > cost of it, (around 200 pics), I was able to replace my old scanner > with a new one and still crank them out in about 3 hours. Quotes were > around $1 per print without editing (repairs, etc) I agree with the idea of buying your own scanner. Some of the HP All-in-Ones (print, scan, copy) and Scanjets have 'transparent media adapters' for scanning slides and negatives. These are very well supported under Linux, in fact, drivers come out for the All-in-One's before they do for Windows or Mac! ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 21 20:34:59 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:34:59 -0400 Subject: Toronto Star extended obit for Gerry Singleton In-Reply-To: <4678A30A.5000902-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <46781DB7.1000502@telly.org> <1e55af990706191918y52fc585es1c420eabb1f590fe@mail.gmail.com> <4678A30A.5000902@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070621203459.GD10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 11:46:18PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Sy Ali wrote: > > > quote: At his wake in their home, Rena mentioned to his friends she > > couldn't get into his computer. They all trekked down to the basement > > to have a look. None could crack Singleton's program. > Translation: we couldn't guess the root password ;-) Root passwords are trivial. Encrypted drives are a pain. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 21 20:37:53 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:37:53 -0400 Subject: Off Topic: Photo Conversion In-Reply-To: <1182458081.22395.1196416995-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070620001300.a3dfb707.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070620004616.79e3e5da@david.chipman> <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F47303B559FD@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> <1182458081.22395.1196416995@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20070621203752.GE10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 04:34:41PM -0400, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > I agree with the idea of buying your own scanner. Some of the HP > All-in-Ones (print, scan, copy) and Scanjets have 'transparent media > adapters' for scanning slides and negatives. > > These are very well supported under Linux, in fact, drivers come out for > the All-in-One's before they do for Windows or Mac! My HP all in one is a @#$@#$ crap box. It can't even copy more than one page between power cycles without crashing. It even tried to feed paper backwards last time I tried to copy something on it. No more HP for me. Scanning to windows still seems to work, but printing or copying involves getting 'E' every time after the first page prints. It then needs to have the power cord unplugged to make it work again (for another single page). It used to be epson scanners and printers just worked with linux, but unfortunately with the new ones you can't be sure of that anymore. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 21 20:15:41 2007 From: myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles A. Braithwaite) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:15:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: [Job] Google would like to converse with you In-Reply-To: <1182457070346.ad583385-8c76-46bb-a44b-6a729a379866-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1182457070346.ad583385-8c76-46bb-a44b-6a729a379866@google.com> Message-ID: <27600039.351182456941210.JavaMail.root@mail.monkeyinyoursoul.com> Google sent me this email today if anyone is looking for a position at Google I think in Caly. Sorry I doesn't look like there is any Python but its for GOOGLE! ----- biancam-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org wrote: > My name is Bianca Medina and I am a Recruiter for the Google.com > Engineering team. I found you on the Internet and I am interested to > know more about your past work experience and openness to new > opportunities. We currently have positions available at Google that > may be a good match for you. I am looking for engineers with very > strong coding skills in C, C++, Java software engineering, system > administration knowledge, and networking skills. I am hoping you could > help me. > > > Kind Regards, > > Bianca Medina > Recruiting team for > Google.com engineering. > Google Inc. > 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway > Mountain View, CA 94043 > biancam-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org > (650) 253-8257 -- Myles A. Braithwaite Monkey in your Soul - http://miys.net/ myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 21 21:36:33 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:36:33 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [Job] Google would like to converse with you In-Reply-To: <27600039.351182456941210.JavaMail.root-P7hDy7HEvxKlSOqo1t95ehiKKrzNP9OwAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <1182457070346.ad583385-8c76-46bb-a44b-6a729a379866@google.com> <27600039.351182456941210.JavaMail.root@mail.monkeyinyoursoul.com> Message-ID: <20070621213633.GF10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 04:15:41PM -0400, Myles A. Braithwaite wrote: > Google sent me this email today if anyone is looking for a position at Google I think in Caly. Sorry I doesn't look like there is any Python but its for GOOGLE! > I have had a couple of emails from a guy at google over the last couple of years. After doing some research I did determine them to be legitimate emails. Too bad they don't have a location in Canada. :) It might be a fun place to work otherwise. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 21 23:54:00 2007 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 19:54:00 -0400 Subject: Could we arrange a shared car / train to Ottawa Linux Symposium on Wed Jun 27 or thereabouts? Message-ID: Hi all, For those of you going to Ottawa Linux Symposium[1] (Wed Jun 27 till Sat Jun 30), how are you guys getting there? Do you know of anyone driving who might offer people a shared lift? I would be glad to pay for my share of the gas / car cost. I don't have a driver's licence though. (Or what about a shared car service or train? Does that mean a discount, or merely make the ride less boring?) Maybe also we should make a wiki page about car and/or hotel sharing, either on the TLUG wiki or on the OLS or Ottawa linux users' group website. Regards, Jason [1] http://www.linuxsymposium.org ; past speakers have included Alan Cox, David S. Miller, Andrew Morton, Dr. Stephen Tweedie and many others. AFAIK there are still spaces available for people who still want to sign up. -- Jason Spiro: Linux consultant, web developer, Windows corporate trainer. No job too big or too small, whether two hours or two months. Contact me for info; to see my resume, send email with subject line "resume". +1 (416) 781-5938 / Email: info-1hdvTAswZAHQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org / MSN: jasonspiro-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 00:40:12 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 20:40:12 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [Job] Google would like to converse with you In-Reply-To: <20070621213633.GF10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1182457070346.ad583385-8c76-46bb-a44b-6a729a379866@google.com> <27600039.351182456941210.JavaMail.root@mail.monkeyinyoursoul.com> <20070621213633.GF10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420706211740w364966c1qeea48167460f825d@mail.gmail.com> On 6/21/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Too bad they don't have a location in Canada. :) It > might be a fun place to work otherwise. They recently (in the last couple of years) opened a location in Waterloo, although it might have been a marketing office, or something--I don't know if there's any development going on there. Although, if they've already got the office, it seems silly to me not to put a development staff in there considering the close proximity to UW. But then it's not my company. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 01:49:51 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 21:49:51 -0400 Subject: Debian upgrade breaks nVidia support In-Reply-To: <20070621202626.GB10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070619185606.GA9161@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619185834.GB17934@watson-wilson.ca> <20070619211606.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070620020506.GA22520@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070621202626.GB10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070622014951.GA3137@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 04:26:26PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 10:05:06PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> Sadly, because it means that I still don't have X with the nvidia >> driver, Neil's solution does not work. In fact, I had to create both >> the modules and the drivers directories, as they did not exist on my >> system. >> >> The error message I'm getting is as follows: >> >> >> xauth: creating new authority file /home/willyyam/.serverauth.22152 >> >> X Window System Version 1.3.0 >> Release Date: 19 April 2007 >> X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 1.3 >> Build Operating System: Linux Debian >> Current Operating System: Linux $hostname 2.6.18-4-k7 #1 SMP Mon Mar 26 17:57:15 UTC 2007 i686 >> Build Date: 01 June 2007 >> Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org >> to make sure that you have the latest version. >> Module Loader present >> Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, >> (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, >> (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. >> (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Tue Jun 19 19:27:57 2007 >> (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" >> (EE) Failed to load module "nvidia" (module does not exist, 0) >> (EE) No drivers available. >> >> Fatal server error: >> no screens found >> XIO: fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server ":0.0" >> after 0 requests (0 known processed) with 0 events remaining. >> >> Any other help would be much appreciated. Thanks. > >OK, so what version of things do you have: > >dpkg -l |grep nvidia ii nvidia-glx 1.0.8776-4 NVIDIA binary XFree86 4.x driver ii nvidia-glx-dev 1.0.8776-4 NVIDIA binary XFree86 4.x / Xorg driver deve ii nvidia-kernel-2.6.18-4-k7 1.0.8776-4+2.6.18.dfsg.1-12 NVIDIA binary kernel module for Linux 2.6.18 ii nvidia-kernel-common 20051028+1 NVIDIA binary kernel module common files ii nvidia-kernel-source 1.0.8776-4 NVIDIA binary kernel module source ii nvidia-settings 1.0+20060516-3 Tool of configuring the NVIDIA graphics driv ii nvidia-xconfig 1.0+20070502-1 The NVIDIA X Configuration Tool >dpkg -l |grep xorg-server ii xserver-xorg 1:7.2-3 the X.Org X server ii xserver-xorg-core 2:1.3.0.0.dfsg-6 X.Org X server -- core server ii xserver-xorg-dev 2:1.3.0.0.dfsg-6 X.Org X server -- development files ii xserver-xorg-input-all 1:7.2-3 the X.Org X server -- input driver metapacka ii xserver-xorg-input-evdev 1:1.1.5-2 X.Org X server -- evdev input driver ii xserver-xorg-input-kbd 1:1.1.0-4 X.Org X server -- keyboard input driver ii xserver-xorg-input-mouse 1:1.1.1-3 X.Org X server -- mouse input driver ii xserver-xorg-input-synaptics 0.14.7~git20070517-2 Synaptics TouchPad driver for X.Org/XFree86 ii xserver-xorg-input-wacom 0.7.4.1-5 X.Org X server -- wacom input driver ii xserver-xorg-video-all 1:7.2-3 the X.Org X server -- output driver metapack ii xserver-xorg-video-apm 1:1.1.1-7 X.Org X server -- APM display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-ark 1:0.6.0-6 X.Org X server -- ark display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-ati 1:6.6.3-2 X.Org X server -- ATI display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-chips 1:1.1.1-4 X.Org X server -- Chips display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-cirrus 1:1.1.0-3 X.Org X server -- Cirrus display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-cyrix 1:1.1.0-4 X.Org X server -- Cyrix display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-dummy 1:0.2.0-3 X.Org X server -- dummy display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-fbdev 1:0.3.1-1 X.Org X server -- fbdev display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-glint 1:1.1.1-3 X.Org X server -- Glint display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-i128 1:1.2.1-2 X.Org X server -- i128 display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-i740 1:1.1.0-3 X.Org X server -- i740 display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-i810 2:1.7.2-4 X.Org X server -- Intel i8xx, i9xx display d ii xserver-xorg-video-imstt 1:1.1.0-3 X.Org X server -- IMSTT display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-mga 1:1.4.4.dfsg.1-2 X.Org X server -- MGA display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-neomagic 1:1.1.1-5 X.Org X server -- Neomagic display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-newport 1:0.2.1-2 X.Org X server -- Newport display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-nsc 1:2.8.2-2 X.Org X server -- NSC display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-nv 1:2.0.2-1 X.Org X server -- NV display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-rendition 1:4.1.3.dfsg.1-2 X.Org X server -- Rendition display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-s3 1:0.5.0-2 X.Org X server -- legacy S3 display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-s3virge 1:1.9.1-3 X.Org X server -- S3 ViRGE display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-savage 1:2.1.2-5 X.Org X server -- Savage display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-siliconmotion 1:1.5.1-1 X.Org X server -- SiliconMotion display driv ii xserver-xorg-video-sis 1:0.9.3-2 X.Org X server -- SiS display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-sisusb 1:0.8.1-3 X.Org X server -- SiS USB display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-tdfx 1:1.3.0-1 X.Org X server -- tdfx display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-tga 1:1.1.0-3 X.Org X server -- TGA display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-trident 1:1.2.3-1 X.Org X server -- Trident display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-tseng 1:1.1.1-1 X.Org X server -- Tseng display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-v4l 0.1.1-3 X.Org X server -- Video 4 Linux display driv ii xserver-xorg-video-vesa 1:1.3.0-1 X.Org X server -- VESA display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-vga 1:4.1.0-3 X.Org X server -- VGA display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-via 1:0.2.2-2 X.Org X server -- VIA display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-vmware 1:10.13.0-3 X.Org X server -- VMware display driver ii xserver-xorg-video-voodoo 1:1.1.1-2 X.Org X server -- Voodoo display driver >Which nvidia card do you have? FX5200 >Could you include the X log file from /var/log and the xorg.conf file as >well? The log file is above. Here is the xorg.conf: # xorg.conf (xorg X Window System server configuration file) # # This file was generated by dexconf, the Debian X Configuration tool, using # values from the debconf database. # # Edit this file with caution, and see the xorg.conf manual page. # (Type "man xorg.conf" at the shell prompt.) # # This file is automatically updated on xserver-xorg package upgrades *only* # if it has not been modified since the last upgrade of the xserver-xorg # package. # # If you have edited this file but would like it to be automatically updated # again, run the following command: # sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg Section "Files" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Generic Keyboard" Driver "kbd" Option "CoreKeyboard" Option "XkbRules" "xorg" Option "XkbModel" "pc104" Option "XkbLayout" "us" Option "XkbOptions" "esc:nocaps" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Configured Mouse" Driver "mouse" Option "CorePointer" Option "Device" "/dev/psaux" Option "Protocol" "PS/2" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "nVidia Corporation NV34 [GeForce FX 5200]" Driver "nv" BusID "PCI:1:0:0" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "Generic Monitor" Option "DPMS" HorizSync 28-49 VertRefresh 43-72 EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Default Screen" Device "nVidia Corporation NV34 [GeForce FX 5200]" Monitor "Generic Monitor" DefaultDepth 24 SubSection "Display" Depth 1 Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 4 Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 8 Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 15 Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 16 Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 24 Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection EndSection Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "Default Layout" Screen "Default Screen" InputDevice "Generic Keyboard" InputDevice "Configured Mouse" EndSection Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 02:18:47 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 22:18:47 -0400 Subject: Debian upgrade breaks nVidia support In-Reply-To: <20070622014951.GA3137-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070619185606.GA9161@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619185834.GB17934@watson-wilson.ca> <20070619211606.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070620020506.GA22520@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070621202626.GB10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070622014951.GA3137@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070621221847.72d40f2d@node1.freeyourmachine.org> William O'Higgins Witteman left a post-it on the fridge: > ii nvidia-glx 1.0.8776-4 NVIDIA > binary XFree86 4.x driver ii nvidia-glx-dev > 1.0.8776-4 NVIDIA binary XFree86 4.x / Xorg driver deve > ii nvidia-kernel-2.6.18-4-k7 1.0.8776-4+2.6.18.dfsg.1-12 NVIDIA > binary kernel module for Linux 2.6.18 ii nvidia-kernel-common > 20051028+1 NVIDIA binary kernel module common files ii > nvidia-kernel-source 1.0.8776-4 NVIDIA > binary kernel module source ii nvidia-settings > 1.0+20060516-3 Tool of configuring the NVIDIA graphics driv > ii nvidia-xconfig 1.0+20070502-1 The > NVIDIA X Configuration Tool Have you tried updating the NVidia drivers? It would at the very least eliminate that as a problem, no? -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: He's gay. Leela: How do you know? Bender: I have this thing called gaydar. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 02:40:19 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 22:40:19 -0400 Subject: Debian upgrade breaks nVidia support In-Reply-To: <20070621221847.72d40f2d-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20070619185606.GA9161@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619185834.GB17934@watson-wilson.ca> <20070619211606.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070620020506.GA22520@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070621202626.GB10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070622014951.GA3137@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070621221847.72d40f2d@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20070622024018.GB3137@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 10:18:47PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: >William O'Higgins Witteman left a post-it on the fridge: > >> ii nvidia-glx 1.0.8776-4 NVIDIA >> binary XFree86 4.x driver ii nvidia-glx-dev >> 1.0.8776-4 NVIDIA binary XFree86 4.x / Xorg driver deve >> ii nvidia-kernel-2.6.18-4-k7 1.0.8776-4+2.6.18.dfsg.1-12 NVIDIA >> binary kernel module for Linux 2.6.18 ii nvidia-kernel-common >> 20051028+1 NVIDIA binary kernel module common files ii >> nvidia-kernel-source 1.0.8776-4 NVIDIA >> binary kernel module source ii nvidia-settings >> 1.0+20060516-3 Tool of configuring the NVIDIA graphics driv >> ii nvidia-xconfig 1.0+20070502-1 The >> NVIDIA X Configuration Tool > >Have you tried updating the NVidia drivers? It would at the very least >eliminate that as a problem, no? These are, for Debian testing anyway, up to date. I'd fret more about that if a) this wasn't working just fine a week ago and b) if it was an upgrade to xserver-xorg that triggered the change from worky to no-worky. Good thought though, and if something doesn't give soon I'll dist-upgrade to unstable and then wait six months for testing to catch up to me and upgrades to happen again :-) -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 06:17:29 2007 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 02:17:29 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [Job] Google would like to converse with you In-Reply-To: <20070621213633.GF10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1182457070346.ad583385-8c76-46bb-a44b-6a729a379866@google.com> <27600039.351182456941210.JavaMail.root@mail.monkeyinyoursoul.com> <20070621213633.GF10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070622061729.GB14254@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 05:36:33PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 04:15:41PM -0400, Myles A. Braithwaite wrote: > > Google sent me this email today if anyone is looking for a position at Google I think in Caly. Sorry I doesn't look like there is any Python but its for GOOGLE! > > > > I have had a couple of emails from a guy at google over the last couple > of years. After doing some research I did determine them to be > legitimate emails. Too bad they don't have a location in Canada. :) It > might be a fun place to work otherwise. Google does have a location in Waterloo: 490 Dutton Drive #B9 Waterloo, Ontario, N2L 6H7 Canada Main Phone 1-519-880-2300 The primary focus of work there is mobile/wireless technology. (There is also a facility in Toronto, but I don't see any info about what it does - it may be a sales/support office of some sort.) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 11:36:20 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 07:36:20 -0400 Subject: Toronto Star extended obit for Gerry Singleton In-Reply-To: <20070621203459.GD10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <46781DB7.1000502@telly.org> <1e55af990706191918y52fc585es1c420eabb1f590fe@mail.gmail.com> <4678A30A.5000902@telly.org> <20070621203459.GD10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990706220436r7e3f9f36g21f0a4fdff539da4@mail.gmail.com> On 6/21/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Root passwords are trivial. Encrypted drives are a pain. :) And three cheers for rubberhosing! =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 12:55:46 2007 From: myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles A. Braithwaite) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 08:55:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: A Canadian VPS? Message-ID: <16581501.81182516946224.JavaMail.root@mail.monkeyinyoursoul.com> Hello, I am looking for a VPS hosted in Canada. Does anyone know any? -- Myles A. Braithwaite Monkey in your Soul - http://miys.net/ myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 13:29:53 2007 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 09:29:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: [Job] Google would like to converse with you In-Reply-To: <20070622061729.GB14254-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20070622061729.GB14254@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <516671.36231.qm@web60120.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, this gives an idea of what google does in Canada: http://www.google.ca/support/jobs/bin/static.py?page=intl.html&jobslc=canada Fernando --- John Macdonald wrote: > On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 05:36:33PM -0400, Lennart > Sorensen wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 04:15:41PM -0400, Myles A. > Braithwaite wrote: > > > Google sent me this email today if anyone is > looking for a position at Google I think in Caly. > Sorry I doesn't look like there is any Python but > its for GOOGLE! > > > > > > > I have had a couple of emails from a guy at google > over the last couple > > of years. After doing some research I did > determine them to be > > legitimate emails. Too bad they don't have a > location in Canada. :) It > > might be a fun place to work otherwise. > > Google does have a location in Waterloo: > > 490 Dutton Drive #B9 > Waterloo, Ontario, N2L 6H7 > Canada > > Main Phone 1-519-880-2300 > > The primary focus of work there is mobile/wireless > technology. > > (There is also a facility in Toronto, but I don't > see any > info about what it does - it may be a sales/support > office of > some sort.) > > -- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 13:50:59 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 09:50:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: [Job] Google would like to converse with you In-Reply-To: <20070621213633.GF10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070621213633.GF10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <221086.33839.qm@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 04:15:41PM -0400, Myles A. > Braithwaite wrote: > > Google sent me this email today if anyone is > looking for a position at Google I think in Caly. > Sorry I doesn't look like there is any Python but > its for GOOGLE! > > > > I have had a couple of emails from a guy at google > over the last couple > of years. After doing some research I did determine > them to be > legitimate emails. Too bad they don't have a > location in Canada. :) It > might be a fun place to work otherwise. Early this year I had three phone interviews with Google, re: a system administration possition. Google does have a Canadian data centre in the GTA. I never did find out just where, the closest they would say is "near the airport", and it was made clear that ownership of a car (or truck, etc.) was a must as the data centre has (had?) poor or nonexistant public transit. But, yes, Google does sound like a neat place to work, and working for them in the GTA is a possibility, but I am not sure how wide a range of positions are available here... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 14:34:56 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 10:34:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV changes. Message-ID: <986146.52725.qm@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Small note (small because I can see writing about this at greater length in a magazine article :-) ), Zap2it labs is dropping TV listing support for MythTV users in North America effective September 1st. So all of us using MythTV will need to upgrade / change our boxes between now and then. Before Zap2it labs the MythTV people did "screen scraping" downloading web pages and extracting the required data that way, and that MAY be what the MythTV returns to after September 1st, stay tuned. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 15:49:18 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 11:49:18 -0400 Subject: MythTV changes. In-Reply-To: <986146.52725.qm-2K+iNxKRQwOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <986146.52725.qm@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <22e435080706220849m53cd303ewb1e636cbb5f8aef8@mail.gmail.com> On 6/22/07, Colin McGregor wrote: > Small note (small because I can see writing about this > at greater length in a magazine article :-) ), Zap2it > labs is dropping TV listing support for MythTV users > in North America effective September 1st. So all of us > using MythTV will need to upgrade / change our boxes > between now and then. Before Zap2it labs the MythTV > people did "screen scraping" downloading web pages and > extracting the required data that way, and that MAY be > what the MythTV returns to after September 1st, stay > tuned. > > Colin McGregor Is xmltv the solution to this "issue", damn corporations :). SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 15:49:16 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 11:49:16 -0400 Subject: MythTV changes. In-Reply-To: <986146.52725.qm-2K+iNxKRQwOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <986146.52725.qm@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200706221149.16972.mervc@eol.ca> On Friday 22 June 2007 10:34, Colin McGregor wrote: > Before Zap2it labs the MythTV > people did "screen scraping" downloading web pages and > extracting the required data that way, and that MAY be > what the MythTV returns to after September 1st, stay > tuned. > I just extended my subscription yesterday and was saddened to see the notice on their web site. My experience with TV listings over the past few years has only involved Zap2It so it is good to know there may be an alternative. They mention subscription services, is this partly what you intend to cover Colin? Of course Mythtv will still do its main job, but a lot of the convenience of scheduling will be reduced. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 15:52:31 2007 From: paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org (Paul Nash) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 11:52:31 -0400 Subject: A Canadian VPS? In-Reply-To: <16581501.81182516946224.JavaMail.root-P7hDy7HEvxKlSOqo1t95ehiKKrzNP9OwAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <16581501.81182516946224.JavaMail.root@mail.monkeyinyoursoul.com> Message-ID: At 8:55 AM -0400 6/22/07, Myles A. Braithwaite wrote: >Hello, I am looking for a VPS hosted in Canada. Does anyone know any? Try iweb in Montreal: www.iweb8.com. I use them for one VPS server (machine w Virtuozzo and several VPS instances) and am very happy with them. paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 16:10:42 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 12:10:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV changes. In-Reply-To: <22e435080706220849m53cd303ewb1e636cbb5f8aef8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <22e435080706220849m53cd303ewb1e636cbb5f8aef8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <230670.52793.qm@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Sheldon Mustard wrote: > On 6/22/07, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > Small note (small because I can see writing about > this > > at greater length in a magazine article :-) ), > Zap2it > > labs is dropping TV listing support for MythTV > users > > in North America effective September 1st. So all > of us > > using MythTV will need to upgrade / change our > boxes > > between now and then. Before Zap2it labs the > MythTV > > people did "screen scraping" downloading web pages > and > > extracting the required data that way, and that > MAY be > > what the MythTV returns to after September 1st, > stay > > tuned. > > > > Colin McGregor > > Is xmltv the solution to this "issue", damn > corporations :). Yes and no. xmltv is a screen scraping program that is used by MythTV folks in several countries outside North America to create MythTV on-screen listings. Okay, so xmltv could be adapted for use in North America (and early versions of MythTV for North America I gather did use xmltv), but bottom line is "Where does the raw data come from?". Zap2it labs was nice in that you could provide your location via a zip/postal code and your TV provider (cable, antenna, or satellite) then they would provide the data all in a neatly packaged format. Part of what caused Zap2it labs to offer data this way was the impact that the screen scraping programs had on their servers, so by dropping this service they may make things worse... Colin McGregor > SJM > > -- > Sheldon Mustard > smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) > -- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 16:37:14 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 12:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV changes. In-Reply-To: <200706221149.16972.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200706221149.16972.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <738455.4537.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Merv Curley wrote: > On Friday 22 June 2007 10:34, Colin McGregor wrote: > > Before Zap2it labs the MythTV > > people did "screen scraping" downloading web pages > and > > extracting the required data that way, and that > MAY be > > what the MythTV returns to after September 1st, > stay > > tuned. > > > I just extended my subscription yesterday and was > saddened to see the notice > on their web site. > > My experience with TV listings over the past few > years has only involved > Zap2It so it is good to know there may be an > alternative. Well, folks outside North America have never had the likes of a Zap2It, yet people are happily using MythTV in the UK, Germany, etc.. So you don't have to have Zap2It for MythTV (though they did make life a LOT easier). > They mention subscription services, is this partly > what you intend to cover > Colin? Of course Mythtv will still do its main > job, but a lot of the > convenience of scheduling will be reduced. This is a developing story. The fact that Zap2It is dropping their service and the way that impacts on projects like MythTV is news, plus just which replaces Zap2It will be news (subscription for $? and/or the returns of xmltv to North America? and/or some other option?). Beyond that I'm not sure... What I am sure of is that there will be some sort of solution between now and September 1st. After all we are talking about a bunch of geeks looking at an interesting, time limited, clearly defined problem, with multiple valid possible solutions. I have faith that the community will come up with at least one (possibly more than one) valid solution. Colin McGregor > -- > Merv Curley > Toronto, Ont. Can > > SuSE 10.2 Linux > Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 16:43:09 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 12:43:09 -0400 Subject: MythTV changes. In-Reply-To: <738455.4537.qm-7EKNVtTItHqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <738455.4537.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <467BFC1D.5040604@utoronto.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > --- Merv Curley wrote: >> On Friday 22 June 2007 10:34, Colin McGregor wrote: >>> Before Zap2it labs the MythTV >>> people did "screen scraping" downloading web pages >> and >>> extracting the required data that way, and that >> MAY be >>> what the MythTV returns to after September 1st, >> stay >>> tuned. >>> >> I just extended my subscription yesterday and was >> saddened to see the notice >> on their web site. >> >> My experience with TV listings over the past few >> years has only involved >> Zap2It so it is good to know there may be an >> alternative. > > Well, folks outside North America have never had the > likes of a Zap2It, yet people are happily using MythTV > in the UK, Germany, etc.. So you don't have to have > Zap2It for MythTV (though they did make life a LOT > easier). > >> They mention subscription services, is this partly >> what you intend to cover >> Colin? Of course Mythtv will still do its main >> job, but a lot of the >> convenience of scheduling will be reduced. > > This is a developing story. The fact that Zap2It is > dropping their service and the way that impacts on > projects like MythTV is news, plus just which replaces > Zap2It will be news (subscription for $? and/or the > returns of xmltv to North America? and/or some other > option?). Beyond that I'm not sure... > > What I am sure of is that there will be some sort of > solution between now and September 1st. After all we > are talking about a bunch of geeks looking at an > interesting, time limited, clearly defined problem, > with multiple valid possible solutions. I have faith > that the community will come up with at least one > (possibly more than one) valid solution. Maybe give TVGuide a reason to exist and stop wasting trees. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 19:15:57 2007 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 15:15:57 -0400 Subject: MythTV changes. In-Reply-To: <230670.52793.qm-Kg4S4JJQdT6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <22e435080706220849m53cd303ewb1e636cbb5f8aef8@mail.gmail.com> <230670.52793.qm@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: 2007/6/22, Colin McGregor wrote: [snip] > Part of what > caused Zap2it labs to offer data this way was the > impact that the screen scraping programs had on their > servers, so by dropping this service they may make > things worse... When people first started using the scraper software, wouldn't it have been easier for them to just block the software instead of offering a data service? -- Jason Spiro: Linux consultant, web developer, Windows corporate trainer. No job too big or too small, whether two hours or two months. Contact me for info; to see my resume, send email with subject line "resume". +1 (416) 781-5938 / Email: info-1hdvTAswZAHQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org / MSN: jasonspiro-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 19:21:43 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 15:21:43 -0400 Subject: MythTV changes. In-Reply-To: <467BFC1D.5040604-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <738455.4537.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <467BFC1D.5040604@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0706221221h243fdc0fw266e6fd15767ed93@mail.gmail.com> On 6/22/07, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Maybe give TVGuide a reason to exist and stop wasting trees. I saw a couple mentions about scraping TV Guide online in yesterday's /. story. I don't really use MythTV at all - at least not yet - but I have to agree with Colin... There'll be a solution soon. :-) -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 19:26:10 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 15:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV changes. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <269385.96446.qm@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Jason Spiro wrote: > 2007/6/22, Colin McGregor > wrote: > [snip] > > Part of what > > caused Zap2it labs to offer data this way was the > > impact that the screen scraping programs had on > their > > servers, so by dropping this service they may make > > things worse... > > When people first started using the scraper > software, wouldn't it have > been easier for them to just block the software > instead of offering a > data service? Block it how? Change the web page layout every few days would be about the only way (i.e.: change faster than the scraper program can adapt...). The scraper software could make itself look like just about any web browser and play all sorts of games to get the data off a website... :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 20:35:06 2007 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:35:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT iPhone Message-ID: <2325.66.11.182.5.1182544506.squirrel@canuckster.org> Greetings, Are there any Canadian cellphone companies that offer service using the soon to be released Apple iPhone? Rogers, Telus, etc... Thanks Jason Carson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From geektastique-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 22:19:06 2007 From: geektastique-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steph Fox) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:19:06 -0400 Subject: OT iPhone In-Reply-To: <2325.66.11.182.5.1182544506.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <2325.66.11.182.5.1182544506.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <7111fbb0706221519v782517ber8035d2cf78b64687@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, Are there any Canadian cellphone companies that offer service using the > soon to be released Apple iPhone? Rogers, Telus, etc... It's been rumored that Rogers will have the contract, I'm not sure if they've officially announced it yet. As far as I know, no word on what the launch date would be (though one might make an educated guess that it would probably be between June and October, the US and European release dates). Cheers, Steph -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 22:58:48 2007 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:58:48 -0400 Subject: OT iPhone In-Reply-To: <7111fbb0706221519v782517ber8035d2cf78b64687-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <2325.66.11.182.5.1182544506.squirrel@canuckster.org> <7111fbb0706221519v782517ber8035d2cf78b64687@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b20706221558x52dac937w65bd5edc7f0c2bd0@mail.gmail.com> Rogers is the only provider who CAN carry the iPhone. And at the time of the iPhone's introduction, word from Rogers was "end of this year"... now they're coming out with statements suggesting there's no planned launch date. Rogers says that Apple is not talking to Canada yet, as they're focused on the US launch. No surprises there: Canada barely exists to Apple. You've been able to buy movies from the iTunes Store for over a year now in the US; you still can't here. And it took about a year for the iTunes Store to even show up here. Blech! At least, we'll have a good idea of whether the iPhone is "the shizzle" by the time we have the chance to buy one. Cheers, Aaron. On 6/22/07, Steph Fox wrote: > Hi All, > > > > Are there any Canadian cellphone companies that offer service using the > > soon to be released Apple iPhone? Rogers, Telus, etc... > > It's been rumored that Rogers will have the contract, I'm not sure if > they've officially announced it yet. As far as I know, no word on what the > launch date would be (though one might make an educated guess that it would > probably be between June and October, the US and European release dates). > > Cheers, > > Steph > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 22 23:37:34 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 19:37:34 -0400 Subject: OT iPhone In-Reply-To: <2325.66.11.182.5.1182544506.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <2325.66.11.182.5.1182544506.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <467C5D3E.4050103@rogers.com> jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org wrote: > Greetings, > > Are there any Canadian cellphone companies that offer service using the > soon to be released Apple iPhone? Rogers, Telus, etc... > > After a few seconds of hard Googling, I found this. http://earwaks.com/news/2466/rogers-to-carry-apple-iphone.html -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 23 00:13:45 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:13:45 -0400 Subject: Gov't (er, Taxpayer) funded Television and Proprietary Media Formats Message-ID: <99a6c38f0706221713t2eb92cb4x5b2e15d2fdc5deeb@mail.gmail.com> yro.slashdot is running a story about the BBC getting into hot water, compliments of the UK's Open Source Consortium. Apparently the row is about BBC's failure to support media formats other than Windows Media. IIRC, there were comments - in the last year or so - that the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation wasn't much better. I just made a quick check of CBC radio and TV online. (Admittidly not very thorough). Radio One says the stream is in Windows Media format, and Radio Two + TV (The National) says it's streamed in an mms:// protocol. So a couple questions: - Is mms:// an "open" protocol, or at least supported by open source applications (via the hard-working and rarely rewarded reverse engineering arm)? - If not, is there anything we can do to get the CBC to open up? Take care all, - Scott. -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 23 00:28:14 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:28:14 -0400 Subject: Gov't (er, Taxpayer) funded Television and Proprietary Media Formats In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0706221713t2eb92cb4x5b2e15d2fdc5deeb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0706221713t2eb92cb4x5b2e15d2fdc5deeb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <467C691E.6090205@utoronto.ca> Scott Elcomb wrote: > yro.slashdot is running a story about the BBC getting into hot water, > compliments of the UK's Open Source Consortium. > > Apparently the row is about BBC's failure to support media formats > other than Windows Media. > > IIRC, there were comments - in the last year or so - that the Canadian > Broadcasting Corporation wasn't much better. > > I just made a quick check of CBC radio and TV online. (Admittidly not > very thorough). Radio One says the stream is in Windows Media format, > and Radio Two + TV (The National) says it's streamed in an mms:// > protocol. > > So a couple questions: > - Is mms:// an "open" protocol, or at least supported by open source > applications (via the hard-working and rarely rewarded reverse > engineering arm)? > > - If not, is there anything we can do to get the CBC to open up? Having a hard time with their new layout, good money after bad IMO, their previous layout that seemed like it was only a year old was terrible, this one isn't much better. Regardless... http://www.cbc.ca/listen/ogg.html They've had those ogg streams up for a few years, but the quality is inferior to the wma streams (which play just fine in VLC). So the only thing to bug them about is just that, the quality. Otherwise, you're as free as you like to listen in an open format. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From geektastique-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 23 00:50:27 2007 From: geektastique-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steph Fox) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:50:27 -0400 Subject: Gov't (er, Taxpayer) funded Television and Proprietary Media Formats In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0706221713t2eb92cb4x5b2e15d2fdc5deeb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0706221713t2eb92cb4x5b2e15d2fdc5deeb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7111fbb0706221750pa07a235u513262046c61cb62@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, I just made a quick check of CBC radio and TV online. (Admittidly not > very thorough). Radio One says the stream is in Windows Media format, > and Radio Two + TV (The National) says it's streamed in an mms:// > protocol. I was just about to point out that both RadioOne and Two stream with Ogg Vorbis as well, but Jamon beat me to the punch! Interesting that they're still "testing" (I've listened to those streams at least as early as March 2005). But yes, definitely contact the CBC if you'd like to see an improvement (heck, just send them a line to say "thanks for having an open alternative"). I, for one, am surprised they're still using Windows Media as their only delivery mechanism for video (way to go and shut out pretty much everyone who's not using Windows). Cheers, Steph -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cfaj at freeshell.org Sat Jun 23 00:55:57 2007 From: cfaj at freeshell.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:55:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [TLUG]: Gov't (er, Taxpayer) funded Television and Proprietary Media Formats In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0706221713t2eb92cb4x5b2e15d2fdc5deeb@mail.gmail.com> References: <99a6c38f0706221713t2eb92cb4x5b2e15d2fdc5deeb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2007, Scott Elcomb wrote: > yro.slashdot is running a story about the BBC getting into hot water, > compliments of the UK's Open Source Consortium. > > Apparently the row is about BBC's failure to support media formats > other than Windows Media. > > IIRC, there were comments - in the last year or so - that the Canadian > Broadcasting Corporation wasn't much better. > > I just made a quick check of CBC radio and TV online. (Admittidly not > very thorough). Radio One says the stream is in Windows Media format, > and Radio Two + TV (The National) says it's streamed in an mms:// > protocol. > > So a couple questions: > - Is mms:// an "open" protocol, or at least supported by open source > applications (via the hard-working and rarely rewarded reverse > engineering arm)? It's great for time-shifting. mplayer -cache $cache mms://wm.cbc.ca/cbcr${ch}-${city} Replace ${ch} with 1 or 2, and ${city} with the city you want, and $cache with a number 32 or greater. E.g.: mplayer -cache 128 mms://wm.cbc.ca/cbcr2-winnipeg mplayer -cache 128 mms://wm.cbc.ca/cbcr1-toronto I use this to put it into the background with no output on screen: mplayer -wid 0x1e00f5e -xy 300 -cache 64 -vo xv,x11 -zoom \ -ao esd,alsa,oss,arts,null -osdlevel 3 -nojoystick -slave \ -nomouseinput mms://wm.cbc.ca/cbcr2-vancouver >/dev/null 2>&1 & -- Chris F.A. Johnson ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) From cfajohnson at teksavvy.com Sat Jun 23 00:57:42 2007 From: cfajohnson at teksavvy.com (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:57:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Gov't (er, Taxpayer) funded Television and Proprietary Media Formats In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0706221713t2eb92cb4x5b2e15d2fdc5deeb@mail.gmail.com> References: <99a6c38f0706221713t2eb92cb4x5b2e15d2fdc5deeb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2007, Scott Elcomb wrote: > yro.slashdot is running a story about the BBC getting into hot water, > compliments of the UK's Open Source Consortium. > > Apparently the row is about BBC's failure to support media formats > other than Windows Media. > > IIRC, there were comments - in the last year or so - that the Canadian > Broadcasting Corporation wasn't much better. > > I just made a quick check of CBC radio and TV online. (Admittidly not > very thorough). Radio One says the stream is in Windows Media format, > and Radio Two + TV (The National) says it's streamed in an mms:// > protocol. > > So a couple questions: > - Is mms:// an "open" protocol, or at least supported by open source > applications (via the hard-working and rarely rewarded reverse > engineering arm)? It's great for time-shifting. mplayer -cache $cache mms://wm.cbc.ca/cbcr${ch}-${city} Replace ${ch} with 1 or 2, and ${city} with the city you want, and $cache with a number 32 or greater. E.g.: mplayer -cache 128 mms://wm.cbc.ca/cbcr2-winnipeg mplayer -cache 128 mms://wm.cbc.ca/cbcr1-toronto I use this to put it into the background with no output on screen: mplayer -wid 0x1e00f5e -xy 300 -cache 64 -vo xv,x11 -zoom \ -ao esd,alsa,oss,arts,null -osdlevel 3 -nojoystick -slave \ -nomouseinput mms://wm.cbc.ca/cbcr2-vancouver >/dev/null 2>&1 & -- Chris F.A. Johnson ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 23 11:04:18 2007 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 07:04:18 -0400 Subject: MythTV changes. In-Reply-To: <269385.96446.qm-fjYszm/wOJWB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org>; from colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org on Fri, Jun 22, 2007 at 15:26:10 -0400 References: <269385.96446.qm@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070623110418.GA1986@localhost> On Fri Jun 22,2007 03:26:10 PM Colin McGregor wrote: > Block it how? Change the web page layout every few > days would be about the only way (i.e.: change faster > than the scraper program can adapt...). The scraper > software could make itself look like just about any > web browser and play all sorts of games to get the > data off a website... :-) . Make each page just a big image mapped GIF. The scraper would have to use OCR to extract the text. Using certain backgrounds would make the text easy to read with your eyes but difficult for OCR. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 23 15:13:31 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:13:31 -0400 Subject: Gov't (er, Taxpayer) funded Television and Proprietary Media Formats In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0706221713t2eb92cb4x5b2e15d2fdc5deeb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0706221713t2eb92cb4x5b2e15d2fdc5deeb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <467D005B.13693.DC4E98@sciguy.vex.net> Quirks and Quarks is also in Ogg Vorbis format. There are probably others. doing the same. As for streaming, you are right, either Windows Media or Real are the only two formats I am aware of. Paul King > yro.slashdot is running a story about the BBC getting into hot water, > compliments of the UK's Open Source Consortium. > > Apparently the row is about BBC's failure to support media formats > other than Windows Media. > > IIRC, there were comments - in the last year or so - that the Canadian > Broadcasting Corporation wasn't much better. > > I just made a quick check of CBC radio and TV online. (Admittidly not > very thorough). Radio One says the stream is in Windows Media format, > and Radio Two + TV (The National) says it's streamed in an mms:// > protocol. > > So a couple questions: > - Is mms:// an "open" protocol, or at least supported by open source > applications (via the hard-working and rarely rewarded reverse > engineering arm)? > > - If not, is there anything we can do to get the CBC to open up? > > Take care all, > - Scott. > > -- > Scott Elcomb > > "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy > rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, > their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that > the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al > Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) > > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin > > '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting > on its shoes." - Mark Twain > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > __________ NOD32 2348 (20070623) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 23 15:14:56 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:14:56 -0400 Subject: Gov't (er, Taxpayer) funded Television and Proprietary Media Formats In-Reply-To: <467C691E.6090205-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0706221713t2eb92cb4x5b2e15d2fdc5deeb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <467D00B0.28784.DD991C@sciguy.vex.net> > Scott Elcomb wrote: > > Having a hard time with their new layout, good money after bad IMO, > their previous layout that seemed like it was only a year old was > terrible, this one isn't much better. Regardless... > > http://www.cbc.ca/listen/ogg.html I wasn't aware of this one. I ought to try it. > > They've had those ogg streams up for a few years, but the quality is > inferior to the wma streams (which play just fine in VLC). So the only > thing to bug them about is just that, the quality. Otherwise, you're as > free as you like to listen in an open format. > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > __________ NOD32 2348 (20070623) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 23 21:42:54 2007 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 17:42:54 -0400 Subject: MythTV changes. In-Reply-To: <20070623110418.GA1986@localhost> References: <269385.96446.qm@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070623110418.GA1986@localhost> Message-ID: <32f6a8880706231442k48c4f0c3mcf4b4e9d6dcc538b@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone know if they'll have an option to pay for subscribition and use it with mythtv? Ya thats right i said it.. pay... On 6/23/07, Scott Allen wrote: > On Fri Jun 22,2007 03:26:10 PM Colin McGregor wrote: > > Block it how? Change the web page layout every few > > days would be about the only way (i.e.: change faster > > than the scraper program can adapt...). The scraper > > software could make itself look like just about any > > web browser and play all sorts of games to get the > > data off a website... :-) . > > Make each page just a big image mapped GIF. The scraper would have to > use OCR to extract the text. Using certain backgrounds would make the > text easy to read with your eyes but difficult for OCR. > > > -- > ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** > ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 24 00:34:35 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 20:34:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV changes. In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880706231442k48c4f0c3mcf4b4e9d6dcc538b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880706231442k48c4f0c3mcf4b4e9d6dcc538b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <329916.66183.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Dave Germiquet wrote: > Does anyone know if they'll have an option to pay > for subscribition and use it with mythtv? > > Ya thats right i said it.. pay... I have been looking through the mythtv-users mailing list and there has been a LOT of discussion re: what will happen after the shutdown of Zap2it Labs. At the moment all options appear to still be on the table (screen scrapping, pay service, and/or other). About the only things that do seem to be sure are: - September 1st, Zap2it goes away. - Zap2it is not set-up to deal with x thousand pay accounts, so if a pay service for data does come along it will be from another organization (or other organizations). Regardless, you will need to look at upgrading your MythTV box between now and September 1st. Colin McGregor > On 6/23/07, Scott Allen wrote: > > On Fri Jun 22,2007 03:26:10 PM Colin McGregor > wrote: > > > Block it how? Change the web page layout every > few > > > days would be about the only way (i.e.: change > faster > > > than the scraper program can adapt...). The > scraper > > > software could make itself look like just about > any > > > web browser and play all sorts of games to get > the > > > data off a website... :-) . > > > > Make each page just a big image mapped GIF. The > scraper would have to > > use OCR to extract the text. Using certain > backgrounds would make the > > text easy to read with your eyes but difficult for > OCR. > > > > > > -- > > ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** > > ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 24 02:13:27 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 22:13:27 -0400 Subject: MythTV changes. In-Reply-To: <329916.66183.qm-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <329916.66183.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <467DD347.1080808@utoronto.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > --- Dave Germiquet wrote: >> Does anyone know if they'll have an option to pay >> for subscribition and use it with mythtv? >> >> Ya thats right i said it.. pay... > > I have been looking through the mythtv-users mailing > list and there has been a LOT of discussion re: what > will happen after the shutdown of Zap2it Labs. At the > moment all options appear to still be on the table > (screen scrapping, pay service, and/or other). > > About the only things that do seem to be sure are: > > - September 1st, Zap2it goes away. > - Zap2it is not set-up to deal with x thousand pay > accounts, so if a pay service for data does come along > it will be from another organization (or other > organizations). > > Regardless, you will need to look at upgrading your > MythTV box between now and September 1st. Or becoming said paid service. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 24 18:13:41 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 14:13:41 -0400 Subject: MythTV changes. In-Reply-To: <986146.52725.qm-2K+iNxKRQwOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <986146.52725.qm@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 6/22/07, Colin McGregor wrote: > > Small note (small because I can see writing about this > at greater length in a magazine article :-) ), Zap2it > labs is dropping TV listing support for MythTV users > in North America effective September 1st. So all of us > using MythTV will need to upgrade / change our boxes > between now and then. Before Zap2it labs the MythTV > people did "screen scraping" downloading web pages and > extracting the required data that way, and that MAY be > what the MythTV returns to after September 1st, stay > tuned. How soon will it be before Google picks up on this and fills the gap with their own service? -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 24 19:22:04 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 15:22:04 -0400 Subject: DECtop Message-ID: Here's a most interesting "microscopic PC" product; it's a bit wimpy (128MB RAM, 10GB disk), but it is cheap ($100 USD) and vanishingly small... https://store.dataevolution.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=DT%2D7001 Could be pretty attractive as a non-server box... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 24 19:33:11 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 15:33:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV changes. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <119901.40808.qm@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Alex Beamish wrote: > On 6/22/07, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > > > Small note (small because I can see writing about > this > > at greater length in a magazine article :-) ), > Zap2it > > labs is dropping TV listing support for MythTV > users > > in North America effective September 1st. So all > of us > > using MythTV will need to upgrade / change our > boxes > > between now and then. Before Zap2it labs the > MythTV > > people did "screen scraping" downloading web pages > and > > extracting the required data that way, and that > MAY be > > what the MythTV returns to after September 1st, > stay > > tuned. > > > How soon will it be before Google picks up on this > and fills the gap with > their own service? Not sure where there is a play to Google's advantage here. Google's primary revenue stream comes from people seeing ads on-line, if they are watching TV that goes away. If a another major information provider were looking to enter this area Google might enter the area as a defencive move, but I don't see that happening. All the serious Google competitors in this area, Yahoo, etc, face the same issue, TV takes eyeballs away from search. For Microsoft's Live service there are the same issues as with Google, plus MythTV is a threat to Microsoft's multi-media software. For TV stations, for the most part there is no incentive to co-operate with the MythTV folks, since MythTV drops most advertising automatically. For the non-commercial stations (TVOntario, PBS, etc.), the issue is, they may be a will to co-operate with a MythTV project, but if that co-operation involves spending ANY money, well, the budget isn't there. For the cable TV / satellite TV companies the disincentive to helping MythTV is that MythTV would hurt their sales/rentals of PVR boxes... Some routes that I could see happening are: - Screen scraping systems. This did work on the first go-around of MythTV and is what is used outside North America. This system has issues, but it is known to work and can be done for free. - A pay service where a firm gets (or multiple firms get) $/year to offer data. - An "free" advertising driven system where you get the data free, but you must also deal with a once per day/week e-mail advert. from (insert firm name here). - Crazy volunteers who will collect/collate the data then make it available via p2p networks. The firms best positioned in my books to do the advertising based "free" route are the ones that already offer this data in other forms (read, newspapers :-) ). As in how would GTA MythTV users like their TV listing service, sponsored by "The Toronto Star" or "USA Today" or .... Well, remains to be seen which of the above will win out (it maybe something I have not thought of, or I may have misjudged Google/Yahoo/etc.). It maybe that a few dozen volunteers across North America with even less of a life than most of the folks on this mailing will deliver a volunteer driven solution, who knows. It may be that we will be looking at more than one "winner", a pay service with lots of bells and whistles, and screen scraping for the cheap :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 24 21:08:56 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:08:56 -0400 Subject: [OT] New Bell TOS Message-ID: <1e55af990706241408k6d080022oce957773885cce3d@mail.gmail.com> Since there has been some related discussion, I thought I'd share some snippets about the new "proposed" Bell TOS. It lets them: Jack up all the prices, so long as they notify you by means of a method *they* think is reasonable. Then they can abort your service without notice or reason. Service cancellation lets them charge for future unused services. Then they can accelerate all charges to bill you immediately. They can enter your home without notice, to seize their property. Also, I am in violation of their TOS if I ever plug in a Bell modem and then disconnect it. I am unable to copy their TOS for any reason. So I can't talk about it directly. I wonder what would happen if Bell was a person who had a little gambling problem and who needed to get some money real quick-like. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 24 22:42:02 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 18:42:02 -0400 Subject: Sample HTML to play FLV files from http://127.0.0.1 ? Message-ID: <20070624224202.GA13385@waltdnes.org> I've got a few .FLV (Flash Video) files that I want to pass around. Under linux, it "just works" to play .FLV files with mplayer or whatever. My Windows-using friends don't have it so easy (Yes, some of my best friends are Windows-users). There doesn't seem to be a "native" .FLV player in Windows. Obviously, YouTube, etc, work over the web for Flash-enabled browsers. I assume that it's a matter of putting together the correct HTML to invoke Flash (plugin or Active-X control) in the user's browser to play the .FLV file. Does anyone have working sample HTML code that does the trick to get the browser to "play" a local .FLV file? I've looked at YouTube and other sites, and I see a gazillion references to server-side scripts, which I can't figure out. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 00:17:32 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:17:32 -0400 Subject: [OT] New Bell TOS In-Reply-To: <1e55af990706241408k6d080022oce957773885cce3d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990706241408k6d080022oce957773885cce3d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070624201732.61a66473@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Sy Ali left a post-it on the fridge: > Since there has been some related discussion, I thought I'd share some > snippets about the new "proposed" Bell TOS. > > It lets them: > Jack up all the prices, so long as they notify you by means of a > method *they* think is reasonable. > Then they can abort your service without notice or reason. > Service cancellation lets them charge for future unused services. > Then they can accelerate all charges to bill you immediately. > They can enter your home without notice, to seize their property. > > Also, > I am in violation of their TOS if I ever plug in a Bell modem and then > disconnect it. > I am unable to copy their TOS for any reason. So I can't talk about > it directly. WTF? After my experiences using and working for Bell, I don't doubt the above is true, but I'd be curious to see the actual wording. Pretty incendiary stuff. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: "Oh my God, I'm so excited I wish I could wet my pants." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 00:29:34 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:29:34 -0400 Subject: DECtop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 54 dollars for shipping via USPS, ya think they are gouging on shipping ? Dave On 24-Jun-07, at 3:22 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > Here's a most interesting "microscopic PC" product; it's a bit wimpy > (128MB RAM, 10GB disk), but it is cheap ($100 USD) and vanishingly > small... > https://store.dataevolution.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=DT% > 2D7001 > > Could be pretty attractive as a non-server box... > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." > (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 02:49:52 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 22:49:52 -0400 Subject: DECtop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e55af990706241949sdf4f013tbfa542de28e735fb@mail.gmail.com> USB 1.1 =( A HDD with a locked boot sector, which apparently must be replaced to do any real Linux installation. The technical specs don't actually give any technical specs. I'll pass. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 02:50:52 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 22:50:52 -0400 Subject: DECtop In-Reply-To: <1e55af990706241949sdf4f013tbfa542de28e735fb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990706241949sdf4f013tbfa542de28e735fb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990706241950v402990c0u38cd9032dfa8073a@mail.gmail.com> On 6/24/07, Sy Ali wrote: > A HDD with a locked boot sector, which apparently must be replaced to > do any real Linux installation. http://jsco.org/dectop/ quote: This has been resolved! I tried using the manual partition editor during installation, and it worked. Unfortunately, since the drive is now unlocked, I can't go back and test exactly what it was that made the difference. Thanks to Paul Chin for showing that it could be done! Cool. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 03:16:00 2007 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 23:16:00 -0400 Subject: Sample HTML to play FLV files from http://127.0.0.1 ? In-Reply-To: <20070624224202.GA13385-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070624224202.GA13385@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4386c5b20706242016x17a73695yc2e1e6f358e9f7f7@mail.gmail.com> Am I missing something in the request? http://www.softpedia.com/get/Internet/WEB-Design/Flash/FLV-Player.shtml Cheers, Aaron. On 6/24/07, Walter Dnes wrote: > I've got a few .FLV (Flash Video) files that I want to pass around. > Under linux, it "just works" to play .FLV files with mplayer or > whatever. My Windows-using friends don't have it so easy (Yes, some of > my best friends are Windows-users). There doesn't seem to be a > "native" .FLV player in Windows. > > Obviously, YouTube, etc, work over the web for Flash-enabled browsers. > I assume that it's a matter of putting together the correct HTML to > invoke Flash (plugin or Active-X control) in the user's browser to play > the .FLV file. Does anyone have working sample HTML code that does the > trick to get the browser to "play" a local .FLV file? I've looked at > YouTube and other sites, and I see a gazillion references to server-side > scripts, which I can't figure out. > > -- > Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 > Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? > A. I think it would be a good idea. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 03:16:43 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 23:16:43 -0400 Subject: DECtop In-Reply-To: <1e55af990706241950v402990c0u38cd9032dfa8073a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990706241949sdf4f013tbfa542de28e735fb@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990706241950v402990c0u38cd9032dfa8073a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 6/24/07, Sy Ali wrote: > On 6/24/07, Sy Ali wrote: > > A HDD with a locked boot sector, which apparently must be replaced to > > do any real Linux installation. > > http://jsco.org/dectop/ > > quote: This has been resolved! I tried using the manual partition > editor during installation, and it worked. Unfortunately, since the > drive is now unlocked, I can't go back and test exactly what it was > that made the difference. Thanks to Paul Chin for showing that it > could be done! > > Cool. Yeah, I was aware of this already. Yes, it's known to be able to run Linux without too much in the way of heroics. USB 1.1 is admittedly not ideal, but the fact that they are actually selling (USD) $100 computers proves it can be done, as distinct from merely talking about the idea. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 03:30:42 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 23:30:42 -0400 Subject: Sample HTML to play FLV files from http://127.0.0.1 ? In-Reply-To: <20070624224202.GA13385-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070624224202.GA13385@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20070624233042.14ed838f@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Walter Dnes left a post-it on the fridge: > I've got a few .FLV (Flash Video) files that I want to pass around. > Under linux, it "just works" to play .FLV files with mplayer or > whatever. My Windows-using friends don't have it so easy (Yes, some of > my best friends are Windows-users). There doesn't seem to be a > "native" .FLV player in Windows. > > Obviously, YouTube, etc, work over the web for Flash-enabled browsers. > I assume that it's a matter of putting together the correct HTML to > invoke Flash (plugin or Active-X control) in the user's browser to play > the .FLV file. Does anyone have working sample HTML code that does the > trick to get the browser to "play" a local .FLV file? I've looked at > YouTube and other sites, and I see a gazillion references to server-side > scripts, which I can't figure out. I'm no HTML guru, but if you want to share these files with anyone and everyone, why not just convert them to avi with ffmpeg? Dead easy and anyone can play them with almost any player they've got installed. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: "In the event of an emergency, my ass can be used as a floatation device." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 03:51:39 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 23:51:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DECtop In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990706241949sdf4f013tbfa542de28e735fb@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990706241950v402990c0u38cd9032dfa8073a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2714.74.98.135.97.1182743499.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > USB 1.1 is admittedly not ideal, but the fact that they are actually > selling (USD) $100 computers proves it can be done, as distinct from > merely talking about the idea. It's a lot easier when you don't include a display, as seems to be the case here. Not only do you skip the cost of a very expensive component, you eliminate the requirement for the various power supplies, backlight, etc. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 04:29:26 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 00:29:26 -0400 Subject: DECtop In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990706241949sdf4f013tbfa542de28e735fb@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990706241950v402990c0u38cd9032dfa8073a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <768631270706242129se79a2c6ub0f398aad487bc04@mail.gmail.com> Agreed. Typically you'd have to fork over $300 to get something this small. I bought a mini-iTX box from casetronic that cost much more specifically because it was small and quiet. On 6/24/07, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 6/24/07, Sy Ali wrote: > > On 6/24/07, Sy Ali wrote: > > > A HDD with a locked boot sector, which apparently must be replaced to > > > do any real Linux installation. > > > > http://jsco.org/dectop/ > > > > quote: This has been resolved! I tried using the manual partition > > editor during installation, and it worked. Unfortunately, since the > > drive is now unlocked, I can't go back and test exactly what it was > > that made the difference. Thanks to Paul Chin for showing that it > > could be done! > > > > Cool. > > Yeah, I was aware of this already. Yes, it's known to be able to run > Linux without too much in the way of heroics. > > USB 1.1 is admittedly not ideal, but the fact that they are actually > selling (USD) $100 computers proves it can be done, as distinct from > merely talking about the idea. > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." > (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 13:51:22 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 09:51:22 -0400 Subject: [OT] New Bell TOS In-Reply-To: <1e55af990706241408k6d080022oce957773885cce3d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990706241408k6d080022oce957773885cce3d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 6/24/07, Sy Ali wrote: > > Since there has been some related discussion, I thought I'd share some > snippets about the new "proposed" Bell TOS. > > It lets them: > Jack up all the prices, so long as they notify you by means of a > method *they* think is reasonable. > Then they can abort your service without notice or reason. > Service cancellation lets them charge for future unused services. > Then they can accelerate all charges to bill you immediately. > They can enter your home without notice, to seize their property. > > Also, > I am in violation of their TOS if I ever plug in a Bell modem and then > disconnect it. > I am unable to copy their TOS for any reason. So I can't talk about > it directly. That's scary stuff. Do you have a URL with this information? Since I'm considering revamping my phone/Internet setup at home, how about a section on the GTAlug wiki about the various DSL providers? I see queries every now and then on the mailing list, and it happens often enough that I think it would be worthwhile to have current information posted there. For example, I've heard good things about TekSavvy, although I'm with Sympatico right now. Also, I'm being hounded by Rogers Home Phone (*two* calls within four days) and would like to get similar information posted about Skype/Rogers Home Phone comparisons. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 14:39:16 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 10:39:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT] New Bell TOS In-Reply-To: <1e55af990706241408k6d080022oce957773885cce3d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990706241408k6d080022oce957773885cce3d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47811.81518.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Sy Ali wrote: > Since there has been some related discussion, I > thought I'd share some > snippets about the new "proposed" Bell TOS. > > It lets them: > Jack up all the prices, so long as they notify you > by means of a > method *they* think is reasonable. > Then they can abort your service without notice or > reason. > Service cancellation lets them charge for future > unused services. > Then they can accelerate all charges to bill you > immediately. > They can enter your home without notice, to seize > their property. > > Also, > I am in violation of their TOS if I ever plug in a > Bell modem and then > disconnect it. > I am unable to copy their TOS for any reason. So I > can't talk about > it directly. > > > I wonder what would happen if Bell was a person who > had a little > gambling problem and who needed to get some money > real quick-like. Scary, but... I was involved in the creation of a TOS for an ISP (the Toronto Free-Net) which involved a group of us sitting around a table with a lawyer. From the ISPs point of view the question was how do we avoid getting sued or otherwise in trouble, both as an ISP and/or as individuals because some nut bar might do something crazy. The lawyer's job was to write legalese terms that would do just that. So, there was stuff about how we made no service guarantees, we could revoke accounts at any time for any reason, etc.. Never mind that our ISP did everything in our power to deliver reliable service, and so far we have only ever revoked one account (the account in question was used by a nut bar who thought it a cute idea to e-mail material that meets Canada's definition of child pornography to all board members...). So, having been on the other side of the equation I tend to give ISPs the benefit of a doubt on what is written in the TOS, and pay attention to how they actually apply the TOS... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 16:16:09 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:16:09 -0400 Subject: Debian upgrade breaks nVidia support In-Reply-To: <20070622014951.GA3137-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070619185606.GA9161@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619185834.GB17934@watson-wilson.ca> <20070619211606.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070620020506.GA22520@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070621202626.GB10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070622014951.GA3137@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070625161609.GG10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 09:49:51PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > ii nvidia-glx 1.0.8776-4 NVIDIA binary XFree86 4.x driver > ii nvidia-glx-dev 1.0.8776-4 NVIDIA binary XFree86 4.x / Xorg driver deve > ii nvidia-kernel-2.6.18-4-k7 1.0.8776-4+2.6.18.dfsg.1-12 NVIDIA binary kernel module for Linux 2.6.18 Current 2.6.18 kernel is 2.6.18-5 not -4, so you may have to rerun the nvidia module building by doing: m-a a-i -t prepare; m-a a-i -t nvidia > ii nvidia-kernel-common 20051028+1 NVIDIA binary kernel module common files > ii nvidia-kernel-source 1.0.8776-4 NVIDIA binary kernel module source > ii nvidia-settings 1.0+20060516-3 Tool of configuring the NVIDIA graphics driv > ii nvidia-xconfig 1.0+20070502-1 The NVIDIA X Configuration Tool > > ii xserver-xorg 1:7.2-3 the X.Org X server > ii xserver-xorg-core 2:1.3.0.0.dfsg-6 X.Org X server -- core server > ii xserver-xorg-dev 2:1.3.0.0.dfsg-6 X.Org X server -- development files > ii xserver-xorg-input-all 1:7.2-3 the X.Org X server -- input driver metapacka > ii xserver-xorg-input-evdev 1:1.1.5-2 X.Org X server -- evdev input driver > ii xserver-xorg-input-kbd 1:1.1.0-4 X.Org X server -- keyboard input driver > ii xserver-xorg-input-mouse 1:1.1.1-3 X.Org X server -- mouse input driver > ii xserver-xorg-input-synaptics 0.14.7~git20070517-2 Synaptics TouchPad driver for X.Org/XFree86 > ii xserver-xorg-input-wacom 0.7.4.1-5 X.Org X server -- wacom input driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-all 1:7.2-3 the X.Org X server -- output driver metapack > ii xserver-xorg-video-apm 1:1.1.1-7 X.Org X server -- APM display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-ark 1:0.6.0-6 X.Org X server -- ark display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-ati 1:6.6.3-2 X.Org X server -- ATI display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-chips 1:1.1.1-4 X.Org X server -- Chips display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-cirrus 1:1.1.0-3 X.Org X server -- Cirrus display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-cyrix 1:1.1.0-4 X.Org X server -- Cyrix display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-dummy 1:0.2.0-3 X.Org X server -- dummy display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-fbdev 1:0.3.1-1 X.Org X server -- fbdev display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-glint 1:1.1.1-3 X.Org X server -- Glint display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-i128 1:1.2.1-2 X.Org X server -- i128 display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-i740 1:1.1.0-3 X.Org X server -- i740 display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-i810 2:1.7.2-4 X.Org X server -- Intel i8xx, i9xx display d > ii xserver-xorg-video-imstt 1:1.1.0-3 X.Org X server -- IMSTT display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-mga 1:1.4.4.dfsg.1-2 X.Org X server -- MGA display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-neomagic 1:1.1.1-5 X.Org X server -- Neomagic display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-newport 1:0.2.1-2 X.Org X server -- Newport display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-nsc 1:2.8.2-2 X.Org X server -- NSC display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-nv 1:2.0.2-1 X.Org X server -- NV display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-rendition 1:4.1.3.dfsg.1-2 X.Org X server -- Rendition display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-s3 1:0.5.0-2 X.Org X server -- legacy S3 display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-s3virge 1:1.9.1-3 X.Org X server -- S3 ViRGE display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-savage 1:2.1.2-5 X.Org X server -- Savage display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-siliconmotion 1:1.5.1-1 X.Org X server -- SiliconMotion display driv > ii xserver-xorg-video-sis 1:0.9.3-2 X.Org X server -- SiS display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-sisusb 1:0.8.1-3 X.Org X server -- SiS USB display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-tdfx 1:1.3.0-1 X.Org X server -- tdfx display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-tga 1:1.1.0-3 X.Org X server -- TGA display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-trident 1:1.2.3-1 X.Org X server -- Trident display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-tseng 1:1.1.1-1 X.Org X server -- Tseng display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-v4l 0.1.1-3 X.Org X server -- Video 4 Linux display driv > ii xserver-xorg-video-vesa 1:1.3.0-1 X.Org X server -- VESA display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-vga 1:4.1.0-3 X.Org X server -- VGA display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-via 1:0.2.2-2 X.Org X server -- VIA display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-vmware 1:10.13.0-3 X.Org X server -- VMware display driver > ii xserver-xorg-video-voodoo 1:1.1.1-2 X.Org X server -- Voodoo display driver > >Which nvidia card do you have? > > FX5200 > > >Could you include the X log file from /var/log and the xorg.conf file as > >well? > > The log file is above. > > Here is the xorg.conf: > > > # xorg.conf (xorg X Window System server configuration file) > # > # This file was generated by dexconf, the Debian X Configuration tool, using > # values from the debconf database. > # > # Edit this file with caution, and see the xorg.conf manual page. > # (Type "man xorg.conf" at the shell prompt.) > # > # This file is automatically updated on xserver-xorg package upgrades *only* > # if it has not been modified since the last upgrade of the xserver-xorg > # package. > # > # If you have edited this file but would like it to be automatically updated > # again, run the following command: > # sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg > > Section "Files" > EndSection > > Section "InputDevice" > Identifier "Generic Keyboard" > Driver "kbd" > Option "CoreKeyboard" > Option "XkbRules" "xorg" > Option "XkbModel" "pc104" > Option "XkbLayout" "us" > Option "XkbOptions" "esc:nocaps" > EndSection > > Section "InputDevice" > Identifier "Configured Mouse" > Driver "mouse" > Option "CorePointer" > Option "Device" "/dev/psaux" > Option "Protocol" "PS/2" > EndSection This might be going away some day, since all mice are now handles by the common mouse interface in /dev/input/mice. Should still work for now though. > Section "Device" > Identifier "nVidia Corporation NV34 [GeForce FX 5200]" > Driver "nv" > BusID "PCI:1:0:0" > EndSection > > Section "Monitor" > Identifier "Generic Monitor" > Option "DPMS" > HorizSync 28-49 > VertRefresh 43-72 > EndSection > > Section "Screen" > Identifier "Default Screen" > Device "nVidia Corporation NV34 [GeForce FX 5200]" > Monitor "Generic Monitor" > DefaultDepth 24 > SubSection "Display" > Depth 1 > Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" > EndSubSection > SubSection "Display" > Depth 4 > Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" > EndSubSection > SubSection "Display" > Depth 8 > Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" > EndSubSection > SubSection "Display" > Depth 15 > Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" > EndSubSection > SubSection "Display" > Depth 16 > Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" > EndSubSection > SubSection "Display" > Depth 24 > Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" > EndSubSection > EndSection > > Section "ServerLayout" > Identifier "Default Layout" > Screen "Default Screen" > InputDevice "Generic Keyboard" > InputDevice "Configured Mouse" > EndSection > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Everything else looks OK. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 16:17:16 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:17:16 -0400 Subject: Debian upgrade breaks nVidia support In-Reply-To: <20070625161609.GG10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070619185606.GA9161@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619185834.GB17934@watson-wilson.ca> <20070619211606.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070620020506.GA22520@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070621202626.GB10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070622014951.GA3137@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070625161609.GG10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070625161716.GH10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 25, 2007 at 12:16:09PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 09:49:51PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > > ii nvidia-glx 1.0.8776-4 NVIDIA binary XFree86 4.x driver > > ii nvidia-glx-dev 1.0.8776-4 NVIDIA binary XFree86 4.x / Xorg driver deve > > ii nvidia-kernel-2.6.18-4-k7 1.0.8776-4+2.6.18.dfsg.1-12 NVIDIA binary kernel module for Linux 2.6.18 > > Current 2.6.18 kernel is 2.6.18-5 not -4, so you may have to rerun the > nvidia module building by doing: m-a a-i -t prepare; m-a a-i -t nvidia Oh and it you updated to 2.6.21, well don't do that. 2.6.21 has a bug that makes it incompatible with the nvidia drivers. 2.6.22 when released will fix that bug. I am still on 2.6.18-5 on my testing/unstable machines because of this. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 17:31:10 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 13:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: little boxes [was: DECtop] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Christopher Browne | Here's a most interesting "microscopic PC" product; it's a bit wimpy | (128MB RAM, 10GB disk), but it is cheap ($100 USD) and vanishingly | small... | https://store.dataevolution.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=DT%2D7001 | | Could be pretty attractive as a non-server box... I'm a sucker for little boxes. What is missing that I'd like: - serial port (usb + dongle would do, except for "serial console") - more ethernet - HD expansion? They probably take more power than non-x86 little boxes. The neat little-box deal today (and only today) is at www.Woot.com: they are selling the Nokia 770 Internet Tablet for US$129.00 + US$5.00 shipping (to the US only). Impressive screen. Obvious problem: the only memory expansion is RS-MMC. In theory wireless routers are great cheap hackable boxes. Some even come with USB2.0. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 18:18:39 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:18:39 -0400 Subject: little boxes [was: DECtop] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1182795519.12194.430.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Mon, 2007-06-25 at 13:31 -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I'm a sucker for little boxes. Me too. I have some business cases where I can use appliance like devices. Things like firewalls, Asterisk systems, network monitoring appliances, etc. I would love to hear what people are using for devices like that. > What is missing that I'd like: > > - serial port (usb + dongle would do, except for "serial console") > > - more ethernet > > - HD expansion? My main issue would be more Ethernet, nix the video, go with serial console and add external flash slot. Minimum Ethernet is 2 with options for 4. USB Ethernet would be tough since USB doesn't have good retention and I'd hate to see it fall out when brushed. Flash makes a great place to store configuration so replacing a dead unit is easy. A single PCI slot would also be good. PoE would be great with an optional power brick when needed. I'd really like to see three case options: 19" rack mount, wall mount and desk-top boxes. The PICs look great for a desk-top box. I'd want the 19" rack to have all the ports on front and look like a switch or router. The wall mount would essentially be the same as the rackmount. > They probably take more power than non-x86 little boxes. Low enough for PoE would be great, less than a standard PC would be fully expected. > In theory wireless routers are great cheap hackable boxes. Some even > come with USB2.0. But they can't be branded and many look too "consumer". Here's *my* dilemma: I want to see this in the sub $300 range, case included. The EPIA mini ITX are almost there, we just need a cost effective case. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 22:53:10 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:53:10 -0400 Subject: little boxes [was: DECtop] In-Reply-To: <1182795519.12194.430.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1182795519.12194.430.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: On 25-Jun-07, at 2:18 PM, John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Mon, 2007-06-25 at 13:31 -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> I'm a sucker for little boxes. > > Me too. I have some business cases where I can use appliance like > devices. Things like firewalls, Asterisk systems, network > monitoring appliances, etc. > > I would love to hear what people are using for devices like that. > have a look at www.embeddedarm.com I use these quite a bit, very reliable, runs linux albeit 2.4.x kernel currently >> What is missing that I'd like: >> >> - serial port (usb + dongle would do, except for "serial console") >> >> - more ethernet >> >> - HD expansion? > > My main issue would be more Ethernet, nix the video, go with serial > console and add external flash slot. Minimum Ethernet is 2 with > options for 4. USB Ethernet would be tough since USB doesn't have > good retention and I'd hate to see it fall out when brushed. Flash > makes a great place to store configuration so replacing a dead unit > is easy. A single PCI slot would also be good. PoE would be great > with an optional power brick when needed. > > I'd really like to see three case options: 19" rack mount, wall > mount and desk-top boxes. The PICs look great for a desk-top box. > I'd want the 19" rack to have all the ports on front and look like > a switch or router. The wall mount would essentially be the same as > the rackmount. > >> They probably take more power than non-x86 little boxes. > > Low enough for PoE would be great, less than a standard PC would be > fully expected. > >> In theory wireless routers are great cheap hackable boxes. Some even >> come with USB2.0. > > But they can't be branded and many look too "consumer". > > Here's *my* dilemma: I want to see this in the sub $300 range, case > included. > > The EPIA mini ITX are almost there, we just need a cost effective > case. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 22:07:06 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:07:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Gov't (er, Taxpayer) funded Television and Proprietary Media Formats In-Reply-To: <467C691E.6090205-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0706221713t2eb92cb4x5b2e15d2fdc5deeb@mail.gmail.com> <467C691E.6090205@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: | From: Jamon Camisso | http://www.cbc.ca/listen/ogg.html | | They've had those ogg streams up for a few years, but the quality is inferior | to the wma streams (which play just fine in VLC). So the only thing to bug | them about is just that, the quality. Otherwise, you're as free as you like to | listen in an open format. 1) they only stream Eastern Time. The mms stuff streams from each station in the local time. When I miss a show that I want, I grab the mms from farther west. 2) I try to record the ogg stream sometimes. The connection dies before an hour is up. Not good for an hour-long show. This used to not be the case, but it has been for perhaps a year. The mms streams may not have this problem. I'm trying mmsrip. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 27 22:16:09 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 18:16:09 -0400 Subject: Al Gore invented internet Message-ID: <4682E1A9.9060302@rogers.com> http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/07jun/uf010427.gif -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 28 01:04:14 2007 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 21:04:14 -0400 Subject: [OT] New Bell TOS In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990706241408k6d080022oce957773885cce3d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070627210414.1c1b4952.hgibson@eol.ca> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 09:51:22 -0400 "Alex Beamish" wrote: > Also, I'm being hounded by Rogers Home Phone (*two* calls within four days) > and would like to get similar information posted about Skype/Rogers Home > Phone comparisons. Alex and all, Do _not_ give Rogers your cellphone number. Lesson learned the hard way. :) -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 28 03:23:25 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 03:23:25 +0000 Subject: [OT] New Bell TOS In-Reply-To: <20070627210414.1c1b4952.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990706241408k6d080022oce957773885cce3d@mail.gmail.com> <20070627210414.1c1b4952.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0706272023l2e683497q257cae9793a6fb5f@mail.gmail.com> Interesting. I almost never get advertising calls on my cellphone, despite giving it away regularly as my primary (and only) contact number. I've never looked it up, but I assumed there were laws here similar to the US in regards to making marketing calls to cells, and telling somebody "this is my cellular number, it costs me minutes, please do not call me to advertise" usually gets rid of them pretty quick regardless. On 6/28/07, Howard Gibson wrote: > > On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 09:51:22 -0400 > "Alex Beamish" wrote: > > > Also, I'm being hounded by Rogers Home Phone (*two* calls within four > days) > > and would like to get similar information posted about Skype/Rogers Home > > Phone comparisons. > > Alex and all, > > Do _not_ give Rogers your cellphone number. > > Lesson learned the hard way. :) > > -- > Howard Gibson > hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org > howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org > http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 19:29:55 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 15:29:55 -0400 Subject: little boxes [was: DECtop] In-Reply-To: <1182795519.12194.430.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1182795519.12194.430.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <20070625192955.GA31194@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 25, 2007 at 02:18:39PM -0400, John Van Ostrand wrote: > Me too. I have some business cases where I can use appliance like > devices. Things like firewalls, Asterisk systems, network monitoring > appliances, etc. > > I would love to hear what people are using for devices like that. > > My main issue would be more Ethernet, nix the video, go with serial > console and add external flash slot. Minimum Ethernet is 2 with options > for 4. USB Ethernet would be tough since USB doesn't have good retention > and I'd hate to see it fall out when brushed. Flash makes a great place > to store configuration so replacing a dead unit is easy. A single PCI > slot would also be good. PoE would be great with an optional power brick > when needed. > > I'd really like to see three case options: 19" rack mount, wall mount > and desk-top boxes. The PICs look great for a desk-top box. I'd want the > 19" rack to have all the ports on front and look like a switch or > router. The wall mount would essentially be the same as the rackmount. You would love the router I work on at work I suspect, except the price tag it costs to make one. :) > Low enough for PoE would be great, less than a standard PC would be > fully expected. How much power can PoE supply? > But they can't be branded and many look too "consumer". > > Here's *my* dilemma: I want to see this in the sub $300 range, case > included. > > The EPIA mini ITX are almost there, we just need a cost effective case. You probably want it cheap too right? :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 28 23:28:56 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 19:28:56 -0400 Subject: unable to mount a partition a second time Message-ID: <1e55af990706281628j4af1d1a5la3c33cbb4356aad4@mail.gmail.com> There seems to be some default mount setting which makes it impossible for me to mount a partition a second time .. when that partition was already auto-mounted because of a setting in fstab. But checking fstab shows it as using default settings. On first boot, I cannot simply mount that partition a second time. But if I unmount it and then mount it once, and then twice.. it works! Does anyone know what's going on here? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 28 03:20:40 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 03:20:40 +0000 Subject: State of Linux jobs in the GTA Message-ID: <3a97ef0706272020t4e205b52q9085d2c81d43bbb8@mail.gmail.com> Hello All, First of all, I'd like to say hi to everyone here in the Eastern province, and introduce myself. My name is Tyler Aviss, and I'm joining up from BC to check up and see what the other side of the country is doing linux-wise, and more specifically to see what the current level of professional interest and employment is in regards to Linux. As with many here I'm sure, I started out long ago as a linux dabbler playing with webservers and scripts, ended up working with linux (well, mixed linux/windows/mac) at work and becoming a tech/sysadmin therein, and finally find myself in somewhat of a niche with my primary experience being based around linux and open-source technology in general. It's a wonderful thing, and it's sometimes both more interesting and easier... though not always both at the same time. So now my main background comes from having worked within two school districts, the first being mostly server-based (Debian) work, and the current one - where I am now employed - being based around Debian/RedHat/OpenBSD servers, thin-client based configurations, and open-source software. Actually, we were recently on slashdot and a few other sites in regards to this, although as is common the articles were a little light on the technicalities of such. Also, if there was anywhere one could learn to stretch a buck, it would be working in a school district :-) At the moment I'm faced with a decision. My current employer - though quite good for the moment - doesn't offer a lot of room for advancement anymore. My SO is also out-of-province, in Toronto. I have been hunting down jobs in the GTA, but so far I haven't found a lot that would be suitable. Higher costs of living would dictate that I find something similar to my current earnings, or better, and most of what I've found thus far have been web-developer jobs (and I lack knowledge of flash) or ones that require a lot of experience with Unix or Windows Servers. Most of my experience runs more along the lines of server/network management, desktop integration, and SysAdmin type work. I don't imagine I'd have too much trouble picking up on the intricacies of the Windows/Unix (I have some experience with both, but not a huge amount) environments, but I think my experience would mainly push me towards making more use of my current skillset. So, with that long-winded piece of introduction above, I decided that one of the better ways to learn more about Linux-based interests in the GTA, and the job-market therein, would be to contact the local LUG (aka you guys). Any recommendations of local businesses that might be able to make use of my skills (or better, use my existing skills and let me build new ones) would be great, as well as any references beyond "check google" or "check craigslist." Anyone who can supply some snippets of wisdom, suggestions, or other information would earn my gratitude. Regards, Tyler Aviss LPIC-2 and all-around nice guy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 28 02:24:55 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 22:24:55 -0400 Subject: Solved: Sample HTML to play FLV files from http://127.0.0.1 ? In-Reply-To: <20070624224202.GA13385-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070624224202.GA13385@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20070628022454.GA6869@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Jun 24, 2007 at 06:42:02PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote > Obviously, YouTube, etc, work over the web for Flash-enabled browsers. > I assume that it's a matter of putting together the correct HTML to > invoke Flash (plugin or Active-X control) in the user's browser to play > the .FLV file. Google is your friend. I finally found sample code. Here's how to get a .flv or .swf to play in your browser, and specify the width and height. Note that the code includes both the IE invocation, which Firefox ignores, and the Firefox invocation, which IE ignores. The result is that it actually plays in both browsers. I've de-fanged the angle-brackets into braces, for the benefit of the poor people who use glorified web-browsers to read email. {html} {body} {object width="550" height="400"} {param name="movie" value="sample.flv"} {embed src="sample.flv" width="550" height="400"} {/embed} {/object} {/body} {/html} -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 29 13:47:51 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:47:51 -0400 Subject: RedDot CMS and Subversion Message-ID: <20070629134751.GC23939@watson-wilson.ca> Does anyone have any experience with the RedDot CMS system? I'm trying to determine whether or not it is possible to have RedDot publish its files to a Subversion repository. Unfortunately, apart from RedDot's own website I see little information about it anywhere. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 56 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 27 17:22:09 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:22:09 -0400 Subject: Test Message-ID: <46829CC1.50100@alteeve.com> Is the list still up? I haven't seen anything in a couple days, including an earlier post I made. A Curious Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 27 22:28:09 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 18:28:09 -0400 Subject: [OT]: Is copying this list appropriate... Message-ID: <99a6c38f0706271528i51d8b08ard3ffed1e1e84cf00@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I'm preparing a letter to my MP regarding the use of FOSS in our Government and Education Systems, and hoping to touch on some related Intellectual Property issues. HLUG (Hamilton) doesn't appear to have a discussion list, and I'm loathe to join yet another web-based forum. Since the topics are as relevant to Toronto as they are to Hamilton, I think this should be ok... But. (Always a but, eh?) The big question: "Is it O.K. to CC: these communications to the TLUG list?" -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 27 20:06:45 2007 From: interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Interlug Lists) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:06:45 -0400 Subject: GPL v3 goes live Message-ID: <408ae1640706271306y6744779eh64148056f6f0894@mail.gmail.com> [forwarded from FSF.org] On Friday, June 29, at 12 noon (EDT), the Free Software Foundation will officially release the GNU GPL version 3. Please join us in celebration as we bring to a close eighteen months of public outreach and comment, in revision of the world's most popular free software license. Beyond the creation of an improved license, the process of drafting version 3 has helped highlight vital issues for the community of free software users. This is a moment to thank the thousands who participated by commenting on the license, and those that represented stakeholders through the GPLv3 committee process. Now with the release of GPLv3, we will see new defenses extended to free software. These defenses will continue the long history of fighting all efforts to make free software proprietary. Please join us as we stream live footage of Richard Stallman announcing GPLv3 from Noon (EDT) at www.fsf.org. If you are in the Boston area you can also join us at the FSF offices from 11:30am. Please let us know at if you would like to attend. -- Peter T. Brown Executive Director Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St. 5th Floor Boston, MA 02110-1301 USA Media contact for this event: Brett Smith 617-542-5942 brett-dGWS0fDw8IM at public.gmane.org About the FSF The Free Software Foundation, founded in 1985, is dedicated to promoting computer users' right to use, study, copy, modify, and redistribute computer programs. The FSF promotes the development and use of free (as in freedom) software--particularly the GNU operating system and its GNU/Linux variants--and free documentation for free software. The FSF also helps to spread awareness of the ethical and political issues of freedom in the use of software. Their Web site, located at www.fsf.org, is an important source of information about GNU/Linux. Donations to support their work can be made at http://donate.fsf.org. Their headquarters are in Boston, MA, USA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 19:41:14 2007 From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 15:41:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: little boxes [was: DECtop] Message-ID: <200706251941.l5PJfEdZ065157@localhost.generalconcepts.com> | From: John Van Ostrand | | Me too. I have some business cases where I can use appliance like | devices. Things like firewalls, Asterisk systems, network monitoring | appliances, etc. | | I would love to hear what people are using for devices like that. Are you familiar with the Soekris boxes? www.soekris.com They sound like they might fit your needs. e.g. m0n0wall firewall, etc. | But they can't be branded and many look too "consumer". | | Here's *my* dilemma: I want to see this in the sub $300 range, case | included. I think the Soekris 4850's are in the $200US range. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 27 10:11:16 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 06:11:16 -0400 Subject: little boxes [was: DECtop] In-Reply-To: References: <1182795519.12194.430.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <768631270706270311t40dbbd68u449a0f89292bd9e4@mail.gmail.com> I was looking for some small boxen recently. I used netier terminals retro-fitted with laptop ide disks.. They work great, are small and has even a PCI slot :) On 6/25/07, Dave Cramer wrote: > > > On 25-Jun-07, at 2:18 PM, John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Mon, 2007-06-25 at 13:31 -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I'm a sucker for little boxes. > Me too. I have some business cases where I can use appliance like devices. > Things like firewalls, Asterisk systems, network monitoring appliances, etc. > > I would love to hear what people are using for devices like that. > > > have a look at www.embeddedarm.com I use these quite a bit, very reliable, > runs linux albeit 2.4.x kernel currently > > What is missing that I'd like: - serial port (usb + dongle would do, except > for "serial console") - more ethernet - HD expansion? > > My main issue would be more Ethernet, nix the video, go with serial console > and add external flash slot. Minimum Ethernet is 2 with options for 4. USB > Ethernet would be tough since USB doesn't have good retention and I'd hate > to see it fall out when brushed. Flash makes a great place to store > configuration so replacing a dead unit is easy. A single PCI slot would also > be good. PoE would be great with an optional power brick when needed. > > I'd really like to see three case options: 19" rack mount, wall mount and > desk-top boxes. The PICs look great for a desk-top box. I'd want the 19" > rack to have all the ports on front and look like a switch or router. The > wall mount would essentially be the same as the rackmount. > > They probably take more power than non-x86 little boxes. > > Low enough for PoE would be great, less than a standard PC would be fully > expected. > > In theory wireless routers are great cheap hackable boxes. Some even come > with USB2.0. > > But they can't be branded and many look too "consumer". > > Here's *my* dilemma: I want to see this in the sub $300 range, case > included. > > The EPIA mini ITX are almost there, we just need a cost effective case. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 20:33:19 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 20:33:19 +0000 Subject: little boxes [was: DECtop] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6/25/07, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > They probably take more power than non-x86 little boxes. In this case, it *is* an x86; it's an "AMD Geode," which is a low power IA-32 chip. According to this site: it chews only 9 watts. The Docunext site sems interesting; it compares the DECtop with NSLU2 etc... There are a number of sorts of relevant hardware, between: - Embedded PPC, where I've not seen any potentially cheap ways to buy small quantities - StrongARM / XScale - MIPS - VIA Eden C7 - AMD Geode In practice, most have mostly only been available at quite extraordinarily high prices, generally where someone's trying to sell that they're saving you some TCO even though you're paying a horrible price for the product. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 28 21:09:04 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 17:09:04 -0400 Subject: What is eating swap? Message-ID: <200706281709.04518.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Funny that I haven't really run into this one before, hoping someone here has ideas ... I have a box with lots of free memory where swap usage is growing (slowly) despite lots of free memory and swap is actively being used (according to vmstat). Here's what free has to say: total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 1034640 439260 595380 0 34404 84544 -/+ buffers/cache: 320312 714328 Swap: 2097144 1793680 303464 It is RHEL4 (kernel 2.6.9-22.ELsmp 32-bit). There is no single process whose virtual size wouldn't fit within the 700MB of supposedly free memory. Interestingly although swap use is growing, "used" memory (the 320312 figure) is supposedly dropping. Normally when a box has free memory I can coax it into increasing the filesystem cache easily (find /usr -type f -exec cat '{}' \; > /dev/null), in this case filesystem cache does not grow at all no matter how much disk I read ... this suggests to me that there really is no free memory, or perhaps just that the kernel is in a really bad state. Is there a tool which can dig through memory to say which processes are pointing at the swapspace? Red Hat has an FAQ on this topic and they suggest looking at the swapped field in top (http://kbase.redhat.com/faq/FAQ_85_9807.shtm). As far as I can tell they are completely wrong, all of the numbers from top look quite bogus (on this and other machines). My other thought was that the box was hacked and some processes hidden from me ... at least so far I don't see any such indication. -- Fraser Campbell Georgetown, Ontario, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 29 18:11:40 2007 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 14:11:40 -0400 Subject: Web Hosting problem Message-ID: <46854B5C.1080108@rogers.com> I recently hired Nouvelocity Systems to host my new website www.matureit.ca and they have been terrific, but there is a problem. No client of Rogers can access it while its been proven that any client of any other ISP both in Canada and the USA can load it easily. Do any of you know of quirks with the Rogers network that Nouvelocity Systems would have to implement in order to rectify this. I have contacted Rogers and they have told me that they are getting their network engineers to investigate (but I'm not sure that I should hold out for much success on their end). TIA John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 22:18:45 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:18:45 -0400 Subject: High Availibity project, need help - stuck Message-ID: <46803F45.9060605@alteeve.com> Hi all, Has anyone here played with the http://Linux-ha.org stuff? I've been trying for about two weeks to get a small 2-node cluster working. I've gotten heartbeat2 working, a DRBD8 partition working, but at the moment I can't get the two of them to work together (errors when calling Filesystem saying it can't find fsck). I still need to get stonith working, and all this is taking me a lot longer than I had hoped. Unfortunately, my biggest hurdle is the completely abysmal documentation for this project. I've been taking copious notes in anticipation of helping fix this if/when I get it working myself. What I need is someone who can help get me over my current stumbling blocks. If you can help me, I would be very much in your debt! A very tired and frustrated Madi. PS - If/when I do get this going, and if there is interest, I'd be happy to give a TLUG talk on it with a walk-through build to help save other's the hassles I'm facing. I haven't given a talk in a while and have been wanting to present something anyway! :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 23:15:03 2007 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 19:15:03 -0400 Subject: little boxes [was: DECtop] In-Reply-To: <1182795519.12194.430.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1182795519.12194.430.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880706251615w1d48ed71y4280165a6703ef7f@mail.gmail.com> How would the WOOT device stack up with NAS? Could i attach a USB hard drives to it with Linux/USB Hub :) Is this possible? Maybe its nicer than my SLug lol.. On 6/25/07, John Van Ostrand wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-06-25 at 13:31 -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I'm a sucker for little boxes. > > > > Me too. I have some business cases where I can use appliance like devices. > Things like firewalls, Asterisk systems, network monitoring appliances, etc. > > I would love to hear what people are using for devices like that. > > > What is missing that I'd like: > > - serial port (usb + dongle would do, except for "serial console") > > - more ethernet > > - HD expansion? > > > My main issue would be more Ethernet, nix the video, go with serial console > and add external flash slot. Minimum Ethernet is 2 with options for 4. USB > Ethernet would be tough since USB doesn't have good retention and I'd hate > to see it fall out when brushed. Flash makes a great place to store > configuration so replacing a dead unit is easy. A single PCI slot would also > be good. PoE would be great with an optional power brick when needed. > > I'd really like to see three case options: 19" rack mount, wall mount and > desk-top boxes. The PICs look great for a desk-top box. I'd want the 19" > rack to have all the ports on front and look like a switch or router. The > wall mount would essentially be the same as the rackmount. > > > They probably take more power than non-x86 little boxes. > > > Low enough for PoE would be great, less than a standard PC would be fully > expected. > > > In theory wireless routers are great cheap hackable boxes. Some even > come with USB2.0. > > > But they can't be branded and many look too "consumer". > > Here's *my* dilemma: I want to see this in the sub $300 range, case > included. > > The EPIA mini ITX are almost there, we just need a cost effective case. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 28 06:37:09 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:37:09 +0300 Subject: Fedora 7 installation issue Message-ID: Hi Pals, I have tried installing Fedora 7 from DVD and it hasn't been as straight forward as I thought. The ISO image burnt on DVD looks alright, as I can boot from the DVD, and the installer does most of the preparation work - like probing the hardware. At some point, it ask me to choose installation from hard disk, CD, network etc, at which point I choose CD drive. The installer then inject the DVD, and ask that I insert the installation CD. This don't make sense, as I have the installation DVD on the drive all along. What could I be overlooking? Regards William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 28 12:38:25 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 08:38:25 -0400 Subject: [OT] New Bell TOS In-Reply-To: <20070627210414.1c1b4952.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990706241408k6d080022oce957773885cce3d@mail.gmail.com> <20070627210414.1c1b4952.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4683ABC1.8090809@alteeve.com> Howard Gibson wrote: > On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 09:51:22 -0400 > "Alex Beamish" wrote: > >> Also, I'm being hounded by Rogers Home Phone (*two* calls within four days) >> and would like to get similar information posted about Skype/Rogers Home >> Phone comparisons. > > Alex and all, > > Do _not_ give Rogers your cellphone number. > > Lesson learned the hard way. :) When I got my (Rogers) cell phone I got an advert call the next day. I called Rogers and told them, in polite but no uncertain terms, to NOT call me with any advertisements. Haven't had a call since. Well, not sooo true, the called after three months to remind me that the sign up free call period was over and to see if I was happy with my plan, but that was directly related to my account so it was fine. As for general telemarketers, I've found the magic words; "Please put me on your global do not call list". Generally a call center will call for many clients. If you leave out the word "global" they will put you on a 'do not call list' for that customer only. If you /do/ say 'global', then they won't call you for any client. When my b/f and I moved in with his grandparents they were getting a few telemarketing calls a day. I told them to say that, and now they almost never get any. This said, my advice is worth what you paid for it. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 29 21:29:36 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:29:36 -0400 Subject: linux distro runs W98 games? In-Reply-To: <32479.91468.qm-57gzaD/7YRGB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <32479.91468.qm@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <468579C0.3050301@chrisaitken.net> Sorry for the top post. I thought I'd include the whole email as this thread is so old. My FC Hardware Browser reports my card as 82815 CGC [Chipset Graphics Controller] Manufacturer; Intel Corp. Driver: Intel 815. Is this card likelty to work well with cedega in light of the information in this email? Or would it work better on my daughter's machaine (Matrox Graphics, Inc. MGA G400 AGP. Manufacturer: Unknown. Driver: Card: Matrox Millenium G400)? Chris DANIEL GARDINER wrote: >--- JoeHill wrote: > > > >>On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:08:08 -0500 >>Chris Aitken got an infinite number of monkeys to >>type out: >> >> >> >>>I don't know that it would be great for games >>> >>> >>anyway. Is >> >> >>>there a distro that has successfully integrated >>> >>> >>wine or winex or >> >> >>>whatever so it can run Windows programs? I guess >>> >>> >>they are older Windos >> >> >>>programs because my son, for example, still wants >>> >>> >>W98SE instead of newer >> >> >>>OSs. He says his programs won't even run on XP. >>> >>> >>Well, it wasn't *perfect*, but for the amount of >>money (about $10), it >>certainly was worth it: cedega. Yep, winex >>repackaged, and maybe not in the >>most ethical way, certainly not open. But I could >>not resist, and I tried it, >>and it bloody well worked. I was running everything >>from Halflife to Medal of >>Honour to almost...Halflife 2 (whereupon my hardware >>gave out). >> >>Cedega will run a great deal of Windows games, is >>very cheap for say, one or >>two months subscription, which at least will get you >>up and running, then you >>really need only pay when you absolutely have to >>have the latest update, which >>I never did for about 7 months. YMMV ;-) >> >> > > Be careful with the video card though; cedega >doesn't work as well with ATI as it does with Nvidia >(which is probably due more to ATI than transgaming, >but that's a different thread). > > Codeweavers have recently started supporting games, >you could also give them a try (apparently World of >Warcraft is already supported). An article I read >recently suggested supporting them because they do >release their code updates to the Wine project. > > You could also try Wine first and see if that works >for anything, especially if they are older games that >don't require the fancy video cards. Can't remember >when it came out but Icewind Dale runs just fine under >Wine on my machine. > > >Daniel >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 30 03:03:27 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 23:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Misc. bits. Message-ID: <557135.85464.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> First I trust everyone here knows that the Free Software Foundation has officially released the GNU Public Licence version 3. The GPL version 2 is the licence that most of the software a typical GNU/Linux system is released under. Provisions in the GPL 3 will make things ... interesting ... for a few companies, such as Microsoft, Novell, TiVo and Xandros (all who have in one way or another attempted to exploit loopholes in GPL 2, that are now closed in GPL 3). Last Monday I was talking to our fearless leader Drew Sullivan, he will be testing updates to the Wiki, and hopefully by the end of July the spam, defacement, etc. that we have be pained with should be a bad memory... Google Desktop Beta is out for Linux, so if you want to index the files of your Linux box, then be able to find them through a Google style search system check it out. I am working on a magazine article on recent Linux software bugs/flaws. If you have any that I must see. please let me know... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 27 22:49:38 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 18:49:38 -0400 Subject: Al Gore invented internet In-Reply-To: <4682E1A9.9060302-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4682E1A9.9060302@rogers.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0706271549y7757d69bp355774b347c44e26@mail.gmail.com> On 6/27/07, James Knott wrote: > > http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/07jun/uf010427.gif Oh, that's horrible. =) I always wondered why his name rang a distant bell. :S -- Scott Elcomb "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 28 11:06:54 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 07:06:54 -0400 Subject: [OT] New Bell TOS In-Reply-To: <20070627210414.1c1b4952.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990706241408k6d080022oce957773885cce3d@mail.gmail.com> <20070627210414.1c1b4952.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4683964E.7070606@rogers.com> Howard Gibson wrote: > On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 09:51:22 -0400 > "Alex Beamish" wrote: > > >> Also, I'm being hounded by Rogers Home Phone (*two* calls within four days) >> and would like to get similar information posted about Skype/Rogers Home >> Phone comparisons. >> > > Alex and all, > > Do _not_ give Rogers your cellphone number. > > Lesson learned the hard way. :) > > I wish Bell/Sympatico would stop harassing me. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 28 03:46:26 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 03:46:26 +0000 Subject: Meeting local linux community Message-ID: <3a97ef0706272046r21db7233xf61629cf12efd609@mail.gmail.com> Just to add to my previous email, I'll be around Toronto from the 15th to the 31st of July. I notice there's a "newTLUG" meeting (details TBA) but if any of the local pros wanted to meet up beforehand or just at the meeting I'd be happy to do so. Regards, Tyler Aviss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 25 19:54:11 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 15:54:11 -0400 Subject: Debian upgrade breaks nVidia support In-Reply-To: <20070625161716.GH10007-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070619185606.GA9161@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070619185834.GB17934@watson-wilson.ca> <20070619211606.GA10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070620020506.GA22520@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070621202626.GB10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070622014951.GA3137@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070625161609.GG10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070625161716.GH10007@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070625195411.GD3137@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Mon, Jun 25, 2007 at 12:17:16PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Mon, Jun 25, 2007 at 12:16:09PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 09:49:51PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> > ii nvidia-glx 1.0.8776-4 NVIDIA binary XFree86 4.x driver >> > ii nvidia-glx-dev 1.0.8776-4 NVIDIA binary XFree86 4.x / Xorg driver deve >> > ii nvidia-kernel-2.6.18-4-k7 1.0.8776-4+2.6.18.dfsg.1-12 NVIDIA binary kernel module for Linux 2.6.18 >> >> Current 2.6.18 kernel is 2.6.18-5 not -4, so you may have to rerun the >> nvidia module building by doing: m-a a-i -t prepare; m-a a-i -t nvidia I did this, but it doesn't do anything, because the kernel I have claims to be up to date, and I re-ran the nvidia module already. >Oh and it you updated to 2.6.21, well don't do that. 2.6.21 has a bug >that makes it incompatible with the nvidia drivers. 2.6.22 when >released will fix that bug. I am still on 2.6.18-5 on my >testing/unstable machines because of this. I'm glad to hear that my problem is explicable, but I'm not sure what exactly to do about it. Can you give me a pointer? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 27 16:26:09 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:26:09 -0400 Subject: Nigerian network hack night: Thursday @ linuxcaffe Message-ID: As some of you may recall, linuxcaffe has been talking (and talking and talking) about building a network of laptops (turn-key ltsp + supporting infrastructure + squid proxy (for sporadic net access) tailored for educational use) we have a collection of hardware, and students have been saving nickel for a year towards hardware. link to story on our being-renovated-and-almost-totally-unnavigable website http://linuxcaffe.ca/project/indi/nigeria So we knew the deadline was approaching, and it has sprung upon us in the form of this years exchange teachers flight to Nigeria, from Ottawa, on the 4th or 5th of July, that's like a week from now, and includes a glorious long weekend. so considering the long weekend, during some of which we will be CLOSED (that's right, in a lake, on a dock, or a hammock) our window of opportunity is tomorrow evening ! We're going to assemble hardware, including purchase of required connecting bits, and go nuts installing and configuring for a group of teachers in a technically and politically hostile area, who may be running 386s with Win311. It should be an interesting evening, and volunteered stuff and savvy will be most welcome. Untill then, we've got, like 24hrs to bat around ideas, on the list. thank you, David J Patrick -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org OR davamundo-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 27 23:32:48 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:32:48 -0400 Subject: FSF (Stallman?) at UofT Mississauga next week? Message-ID: <99a6c38f0706271632p6fb79a8bqfe4e5691e80d0102@mail.gmail.com> Anyone know anything about this? "Copyright vs. Community This speech will be hosted by the Department of Mathematical and Computational Sciences [...], University of Toronto at Mississauga" http://www.fsf.org/events/20070705 I checked the "for more information" site (UofT Mississauga) but don't see anything mentioned for the event. -- Scott Elcomb [ http://www.psema4.com/ ] "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists