From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 1 00:21:38 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 19:21:38 -0500 Subject: [Very OT] Saddam Hanging Video -- Some comments In-Reply-To: <4597D19D.19727.69FA622-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <4597D19D.19727.69FA622@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <1e55af990612311621h3db69b22te5de2e14393a11f0@mail.gmail.com> On 12/31/06, Paul King wrote: > Sorry for this off-topic post > > The un-censored video (complete with camera misfirings) can be seen at > > http://pandachute.com/ http://www.nothingtoxic.com/media/1167548958/Saddam_Being_Hanged_Captured_from_a_Cell_Phone http://www.machovideo.com/article.php?article=2686 http://pandachute.com/videos/leaked_saddam_being_hung_video -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 1 00:53:42 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 19:53:42 -0500 Subject: web-security methods, advice please! Message-ID: <45985B96.2010500@alteeve.com> Hi all, I asked this earlier on TPM who've provided some great feedback. Now I though I'd like to get feedback from the (more diverse) TLUG peoples. :) (Perl) Code below. I've started a web-based CRM program for my new company and so I am more concerned with security than I have needed to be in the past. I was hoping to run down my current plan to see what TLUG'ers think. I am not a cryptologist (or particularly good at math) and make no claims to be a security expert of any kind. So please be brutal and honest with my plans (a cracker would)! :) - Two steps; 1. password authentication and 2. Cookie sessions. Password; - When a user creates (or changes) their password, they send to the server their desired password. - Being a new password, I generate a 36 byte 'salt' string and store this string in the database. - I run their password through SHA256 to get an unpadded base64 hash - I stick the salt onto this initial hash which I call my 'weak_key'. - I then generate a new (base64 SHA256) hash which I call the 'weak_hash' - I take this 'weak_hash', prefix the salt string and generate a new SHA256 base64 hash. I repeat this step 40,000+ times on my old laptop (will do it more on the server when I am done). (reasoning behind this step here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_strengthening ). - When a user logs in later their password is again sent to the server. - This time though the salt string is read from the DB and then all the steps above are repeated to see if the same hash value is created. Cookie; - Once a user successfully logs in, I set a cookie with their user ID number and a session hash. - To create this session hash I create a random number and store it in the database. I look at the current date on the server and then I combine: [UID + Random # + Date + Client UA + Client IP Address] and create a simple SHA256 base64 hash. - After this, each time the user calls the program, I: - Read their UA string and their IP address. - Get the random number out of the DB. - Check the current and previous date from the server. - Read the UID and session hash from the client's cookie. - Generate two hashes like I did above (one or today and yesterday's date) and check to see if either match the session hash. If so, the session is valid. If the previous date's hash matched, I update the session hash (to account for people working over midnight server-time). The salt string is a 36-byte string of alternating non-alphanumberic characters -> digits -> mixed-case letters. The salt is changed whenever the password is (re)set. I plan to use SSL to prevent sniffing but I don't know enough about cross-site scripting attacks to know how to properly defend against them. Below is the test program I wrote for generating the password hash. I am still working on the cookie code so I can't post that yet. Again, *Please* be brutal on your critiques of my methods. If my thinking is flawed, I would be grateful to learn now rather than later. :) Also, I don't believe in security through obscurity in the slightest, so if my methods can't survive being exposed, I'd also rather know now. :) Thanks as always!! Madison -=] Code [=- #!/usr/bin/perl -T use strict; use warnings; use Digest::SHA qw(sha256 sha256_hex sha256_base64); use Time::HiRes qw(usleep ualarm gettimeofday tv_interval); my $t0 = [gettimeofday]; my $msg=$ARGV[0]; my @seed=(" ", "~", "`", "!", "\@", "#", "\$", "\%", "^", "&", "*", "(", ")", "-", "_", "+", "=", "{", "[", "}", "]", "|", "\\", ":", ";", "\"", "'", ",", "<", ".", ">", "/", "?"); my @alpha=("a", "b", "c", "d", "e", "f", "g", "h", "i", "j", "k", "l", "m", "n", "o", "p", "q", "r", "s", "t", "u", "v", "w", "x", "y", "z", "A", "B", "C", "D", "E", "F", "G", "H", "I", "J", "K", "L", "M", "N", "O", "P", "Q", "R", "S", "T", "U", "V", "W", "X", "Y", "G"); my $seed_num=@seed; my $alpha_num=@alpha; my $hash_reiteration=32000; # Generate a new salt string (will use later when new passwords are saved). my $salt; for (1..12) { $salt.=$seed[int(rand($seed_num))]; $salt.=int(rand(10)); $salt.=$alpha[int(rand($alpha_num))]; } # SHA256 print "-=] SHA256 [=-\n"; $t0 = [gettimeofday]; my $weak_key=sha256_hex($msg); $weak_key.=$salt; my $weak_hash=sha256_base64($weak_key); print "Initial hashes generated in: [".tv_interval($t0)."] seconds.\n"; print "Seeds: [$seed_num], 'msg': [$msg], 'salt': [$salt]\n"; print "SHA_base64 of: [$weak_key]\n"; print " is: [$weak_hash]\n"; # Now reinforce the hash my $strong_hash=$weak_hash; for (1..$hash_reiteration) { $strong_hash=sha256_base64($salt.$strong_hash); } print "Strong hashes generated in: [".tv_interval($t0)."] seconds.\n"; print "Strong Hash of: [$weak_hash]\n"; print " is: [$strong_hash]\n"; exit(0); -=] Code [=- -=] Sample run [=- digimer at akane:~/an_sdb/cgi-bin$ ./test.pl foobar -=] SHA256 [=- Initial hashes generated in: [0.000257] seconds. Seeds: [33], 'msg': [foobar], 'salt': [*6w:7W=2k^4b]4k>4t 0W/7g&7t_7M\7k<3s] SHA_base64 of: [c3ab8ff13720e8ad9047dd39466b3c8974e592c2fa383d4a3960714caef0c4f2*6w:7W=2k^4b]4k>4t 0W/7g&7t_7M\7k<3s] is: [TsE7D2Q20LGLAH9hDJxDzOoADIgUdhZ++z6BKhHm8vE] Strong hashes generated in: [0.757067] seconds. Strong Hash of: [TsE7D2Q20LGLAH9hDJxDzOoADIgUdhZ++z6BKhHm8vE] is: [HaKr67EEQuSXR8nT7XNrECSy4eFvKZyDQcag0sI1SSA] -=] Sample run [=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 1 02:52:01 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 21:52:01 -0500 Subject: web-security methods, advice please! In-Reply-To: <45985B96.2010500-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45985B96.2010500@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990612311852i41392c51u26a699d39d59a1b@mail.gmail.com> On 12/31/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > I am not a cryptologist (or particularly good at math) and make no > claims to be a security expert of any kind. So please be brutal and > honest with my plans (a cracker would)! :) > > Again, *Please* be brutal on your critiques of my methods. If my > thinking is flawed, I would be grateful to learn now rather than later. :) I'm not in a position of expertise, but i want to give you the very first thing that lept to my mind.. Unless I'm missing something.. if you're not an expert, you shouldn't play at being one when security is in question. Having said that, is it possible for you to either contract this portion of the coding out to an expert or either re-use or buy existing, tested and trusted code for your own purposes? At the very least, this helps you cover your behind.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 1 02:55:08 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 21:55:08 -0500 Subject: web-security methods, advice please! In-Reply-To: <1e55af990612311852i41392c51u26a699d39d59a1b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <45985B96.2010500@alteeve.com> <1e55af990612311852i41392c51u26a699d39d59a1b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4598780C.8050609@alteeve.com> Sy Ali wrote: > On 12/31/06, Madison Kelly wrote: >> I am not a cryptologist (or particularly good at math) and make no >> claims to be a security expert of any kind. So please be brutal and >> honest with my plans (a cracker would)! :) >> >> Again, *Please* be brutal on your critiques of my methods. If my >> thinking is flawed, I would be grateful to learn now rather than >> later. :) > > I'm not in a position of expertise, but i want to give you the very > first thing that lept to my mind.. > > Unless I'm missing something.. if you're not an expert, you shouldn't > play at being one when security is in question. > > Having said that, is it possible for you to either contract this > portion of the coding out to an expert or either re-use or buy > existing, tested and trusted code for your own purposes? > > At the very least, this helps you cover your behind.. Wise advice, certainly. :) This is my own company though that I am starting on a shoe-string budget. There are many things I should be contracting out, not least being security, but I simply can't afford to do this at this point (though I may well later if/when business picks up). So for now, I am hoping that my prying questions will close at least a few of the holes I have certainly missed. :) Happy New Years! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 1 03:24:26 2007 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 22:24:26 -0500 Subject: web-security methods, advice please! In-Reply-To: <4598780C.8050609-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45985B96.2010500@alteeve.com> <1e55af990612311852i41392c51u26a699d39d59a1b@mail.gmail.com> <4598780C.8050609@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Judging by the amount of intellectual effort you've put in, I would disagree and say that you've already covered your butt far more than many others that don't, and have plenty of responsibility to do so. I'm thinking of the people who don't put in the minimal research needed to avoid creating SQL injection vulnerabilities, or people who put sensitive data on portable storage without figuring out how to encrypt it. I think your high level description sounds good, but I only looked briefly, and I have no experience doing what you're doing. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 1 10:24:17 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 11:24:17 +0100 Subject: [Very OT] Saddam Hanging Video -- Some comments In-Reply-To: <45983510.5050102-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4597D19D.19727.69FA622@sciguy.vex.net> <45983510.5050102@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4598E151.4020802@utoronto.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Paul King wrote: >> Sorry for this off-topic post >> >> The un-censored video (complete with camera misfirings) can be seen at >> > > I know *many*, *many* people have watched this, so please don't take > this as a personal thing, but I think watching that video degrades our > already-suffering society. I certainly don't think it's appropriate for > this list (but you did cover that with your subject). > > Fark took the stance that even though groups like CNN and Fox want to > share it, fine for them, but they wouldn't. For that, I give them huge > props. As they said, it's a snuff film. To me, watching it is akin to > getting everyone out for a good 'ol public hanging. Something that > should have stayed done away with. > > I have no lost love for Hussein, but I think this whole thing has been a > giant farce. Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 1 15:19:54 2007 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 10:19:54 -0500 Subject: [Very OT] Saddam Hanging Video -- Some comments In-Reply-To: <45983510.5050102-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4597D19D.19727.69FA622@sciguy.vex.net> <45983510.5050102@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4599269A.1020703@yahoo.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Fark took the stance that even though groups like CNN and Fox want to > share it, fine for them, but they wouldn't. For that, I give them huge > props. As they said, it's a snuff film. To me, watching it is akin to > getting everyone out for a good 'ol public hanging. Something that > should have stayed done away with. I can't agree with this -- It's important for people to see reality from time to time, especially in the western world, where we are so pampered, and often don't realize what's important in life, other than material things. CNN and the other media outlets did the so called right thing, NOT because they're paragon's of virtue, but because they were under pressure from the administration, as the American government wished to detach themselves from the event, and didn't wish to appear to be "gloating". That wouldn't have played well in the middle east (no kidding eh). It should be watched with repulsion, not with enjoyment. It's important for people to see what other people can do to others, and what retribution is all about, whether one believes in it or not. The important thing is that the majority of the world does, when one lives outside of the liberal democracies. We're far too politically correct for our own good. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 1 17:31:12 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 12:31:12 -0500 Subject: web-security methods, advice please! In-Reply-To: <4598780C.8050609-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45985B96.2010500@alteeve.com> <1e55af990612311852i41392c51u26a699d39d59a1b@mail.gmail.com> <4598780C.8050609@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <45994560.9000603@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Sy Ali wrote: >> On 12/31/06, Madison Kelly wrote: >>> I am not a cryptologist (or particularly good at math) and make no >>> claims to be a security expert of any kind. So please be brutal and >>> honest with my plans (a cracker would)! :) >>> >>> Again, *Please* be brutal on your critiques of my methods. If my >>> thinking is flawed, I would be grateful to learn now rather than >>> later. :) >> >> I'm not in a position of expertise, but i want to give you the very >> first thing that lept to my mind.. >> >> Unless I'm missing something.. if you're not an expert, you shouldn't >> play at being one when security is in question. >> >> Having said that, is it possible for you to either contract this >> portion of the coding out to an expert or either re-use or buy >> existing, tested and trusted code for your own purposes? >> >> At the very least, this helps you cover your behind.. > > Wise advice, certainly. :) > > This is my own company though that I am starting on a shoe-string > budget. There are many things I should be contracting out, not least > being security, but I simply can't afford to do this at this point > (though I may well later if/when business picks up). > > So for now, I am hoping that my prying questions will close at least a > few of the holes I have certainly missed. :) > One thing to bear in mind, is that you can never prove a system to be secure. You can only fail to break in. There have been many times in the past, when someone insisted they had a secure method. The only reason they could make that claim, was they didn't know enough about possible failures to recognize them. Even with widely scrutinized open source security methods, such as PGP etc., there is no proof that it's secure, only that despite all that inspection by experts, no one's yet found a way in, and so it's presumed to be secure at the moment. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 1 17:33:26 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 12:33:26 -0500 Subject: [Very OT] Saddam Hanging Video -- Some comments In-Reply-To: <4599269A.1020703-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <4597D19D.19727.69FA622@sciguy.vex.net> <45983510.5050102@alteeve.com> <4599269A.1020703@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <459945E6.5000703@alteeve.com> Stephen Allen wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: > >> Fark took the stance that even though groups like CNN and Fox want to >> share it, fine for them, but they wouldn't. For that, I give them huge >> props. As they said, it's a snuff film. To me, watching it is akin to >> getting everyone out for a good 'ol public hanging. Something that >> should have stayed done away with. > > I can't agree with this -- It's important for people to see reality from > time to time, especially in the western world, where we are so pampered, > and often don't realize what's important in life, other than material > things. I agree that our society (western) is far too detached from reality. The litigious society south of the border is an example of this taken to the extreme. We raise kids in bubbles, shielding them from their own mistakes. The result is a society who can't grasp the simple concept of self-reliance, self-responsibility and that their actions can have consequences. Perhaps we should mandate that high-school kids should volunteer at hospitals, prisons, rehab facilities and such. I think that might go a long way in helping turn this around. but Do you think many people, if anyone, changed one bit because they saw that film? > CNN and the other media outlets did the so called right thing, NOT > because they're paragon's of virtue, but because they were under > pressure from the administration, as the American government wished to > detach themselves from the event, and didn't wish to appear to be > "gloating". That wouldn't have played well in the middle east (no > kidding eh). You are likely onto something, sadly. However, I doubt there needed to be much arm twisting. This has generated a LOT of traffic/profits for them. > It should be watched with repulsion, not with enjoyment. It's important > for people to see what other people can do to others, and what > retribution is all about, whether one believes in it or not. The > important thing is that the majority of the world does, when one lives > outside of the liberal democracies. Wars should be fought with a sense of regret, not excitement. I am a pacifist and do not even kill bugs when I can avoid it. However, if a war broke out, and it was a just war (ie: WWII defending against Hitler) then I would fight. Not with pride, but with regret that it came this far. Most people in our society have never seen death. They have not seen broken bodies. These things are hidden away with surprising efficiency. This is largely why people get excited about war. You see soldiers whooping and hollering as they kill enemy soldiers. Movies glorify and romanticize this. People don't understand what it means though, to see a life end. That is why this video is useless in the public, at least in our society. Most people watching this will have no frame of reference more valid than pop-media. > We're far too politically correct for our own good. Like religion, PC has been co-opted. Political correctness was meant to be a tool to help people in a society accept that others with different backgrounds were inherently equal, and should be judged by their character and actions, not their racial, political, religious or medical backgrounds. It has been taken and used by people who wish to sanitize the world and used to hide away everything unpleasant. Much like how religion has been used to dictate a certain morality on to others and to preach intolerance towards those are different - contrary to the core teaching of all (major) religions. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 00:25:41 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 19:25:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Tux Magazine RIP Message-ID: <305593.24494.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Found out today that Tux Magazine has published its last issue. Something I found sad as I have done a reasonable amount of writing for that publication. It will be missed... Colin McGregor P.S. I have tossed an image of where I spent part of the Christmas holidays up on the kde-look.org website as can be seen here: www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=50970 Not a place in the sunny south.... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 03:42:59 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 22:42:59 -0500 Subject: [Very OT] Saddam Hanging Video -- Some comments In-Reply-To: <4599269A.1020703-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <45983510.5050102@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <45998E73.2268.2E2853B@sciguy.vex.net> On 1 Jan 2007 at 10:19, Stephen Allen wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: > > > Fark took the stance that even though groups like CNN and Fox want to > > share it, fine for them, but they wouldn't. For that, I give them huge > > props. As they said, it's a snuff film. To me, watching it is akin to > > getting everyone out for a good 'ol public hanging. Something that > > should have stayed done away with. > > I can't agree with this -- It's important for people to see reality from > time to time, especially in the western world, where we are so pampered, > and often don't realize what's important in life, other than material > things. > I agree with Stephen, although I would like to add that we need to see from time to time, the political and human consequences of political actions from the so-called "free world". The act of hanging -- a repulsive act all by itself -- was just the end result of an American political system that wanted to see itself as completely innocent by appointing an American judge, would not put America to scrutiny (even though the Geneva Convention states that he should be tried by a judge from his own country). His very trial is thus a war crime. Certainly, this is the end of a chapter of a very messy story. I believe we have to move away from "Saddam Bad"; "America Good". In fact, there doesn't seem to be any "good guys" at all in this story. I agree wholeheartedly with Steve when he says that we need to see "reality" on occasion. In the sixties, we did. We saw North Vietnamese civilians getting shot on our TV screens; we saw Bhuddists burning themselves to death on the streets of Hanoi on the 6 o'clock news while we ate dinner. Americans saw enough reality that they got angry, protested and ended the Vietnam War. The media has now been manipulated to the point that it would not surprise me if anyone ever got angry like that. We seemed to have waged a war apparently free of human suffering (unless Iraquis are causing it), to believe what the media tells us (and the media would rather us not talk about Gitmo). My feeling is that the war could simply go on in perpetuity, simply because we consider it too much an imposition on our lives and our psyches to view the images, the same ones which Iraquis will never forget, and experience in different guises every day. And I guarantee you, few people in Washington care about any imposition on the lives or psyches of Iraquis. Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 04:20:27 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 23:20:27 -0500 Subject: [Very OT] Saddam Hanging Video -- Some comments In-Reply-To: <459945E6.5000703-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4599269A.1020703@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <4599973B.18875.304D404@sciguy.vex.net> On 1 Jan 2007 at 12:33, Madison Kelly wrote: > Stephen Allen wrote: > > Madison Kelly wrote: > > > >> Fark took the stance that even though groups like CNN and Fox want to > >> share it, fine for them, but they wouldn't. For that, I give them huge > >> props. As they said, it's a snuff film. To me, watching it is akin to > >> getting everyone out for a good 'ol public hanging. Something that > >> should have stayed done away with. > > > > I can't agree with this -- It's important for people to see reality from > > time to time, especially in the western world, where we are so pampered, > > and often don't realize what's important in life, other than material > > things. > > I agree that our society (western) is far too detached from reality. The > litigious society south of the border is an example of this taken to the > extreme. We raise kids in bubbles, shielding them from their own > mistakes. The result is a society who can't grasp the simple concept of > self-reliance, self-responsibility and that their actions can have > consequences. > and I might add to the list, insensitive to the suffering of people in other nations as a direct result of American foreign policy. > Perhaps we should mandate that high-school kids should volunteer at > hospitals, prisons, rehab facilities and such. I think that might go a > long way in helping turn this around. > That might help with their sense of empathy (we can't have enough of that these days), but how do we fix the problem of suffering in other countries if we restrict access to frank and open information, which should have been available if the "free press" were actually "free"? It is quite a sad commentary these days that we have to go to an obscure website if we want a view of the world that has not been filtered through government officials, focus groups, and other stakeholders in the public relations industry. > but > > Do you think many people, if anyone, changed one bit because they saw > that film? > It certainly would. The vietnam war was relatively un-censored by today's standards, and an informed public (thanks to a media that did its job) got angry at what was being done in their name and put a stop to it. No one had any love lost over Ho Che Minh, either. But the Americans got out, anyway, because the war was unjust. Similarly, no one is disputing that Saddam is a rotten guy. But if Saddam is put on trial, so must the Americal support of Saddam before the first Gulf War be put on trial. > > > It should be watched with repulsion, not with enjoyment. It's important > > for people to see what other people can do to others, and what > > retribution is all about, whether one believes in it or not. The > > important thing is that the majority of the world does, when one lives > > outside of the liberal democracies. > > Wars should be fought with a sense of regret, not excitement. I am a > pacifist and do not even kill bugs when I can avoid it. However, if a > war broke out, and it was a just war (ie: WWII defending against Hitler) > then I would fight. Not with pride, but with regret that it came this far. Most people would agree with that. But to know that it is just, our media has to tell us the truth. This last "Gulf War", now going on longer than the American involvement in WWII, should be called the "Gulf Invasion", with America and Britain as the main invaders. > > Most people in our society have never seen death. They have not seen > broken bodies. These things are hidden away with surprising efficiency. > This is largely why people get excited about war. You see soldiers > whooping and hollering as they kill enemy soldiers. Movies glorify and > romanticize this. People don't understand what it means though, to see a > life end. > I don't think so. It depends on how it is presented. I believe that so long as we deny Iraquis a human identity, then it is easy not to feel for them. Once it sinks in to our consciousness that at the other end of the crosshairs was once a living human being who has a mother, father, and likely sisters and brothers; then it is possible to feel for them. But our media has made it easy not to feel anything for them, because we never know anything about Iraquis who die; we don't even care enough to find out how many Iraquis are dead. If you hear from any major media outlet what the numbers are, let me know. On the other hand, how easy is it to know how many American soldiers are dead? > That is why this video is useless in the public, at least in our > society. Most people watching this will have no frame of reference more > valid than pop-media. > The danger is the that people would know they were being lied to. This had to panic Big Media, since the prescence of the video forced both American and British media to radically change their official story (BBC seemed to have covered it better; not so sure about CNN). As for a frame of reference, people in the know saw for certain the "official" story of the quietness and cooperation of Saddam was shown to be a farce: he was anything but quiet or complacent -- he was clearly rebellious right to the bitter end. And because the video was freely available, the media could not be shown up by some wanker holding up a cell phone, so they had to report on it also. Regards Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 04:59:42 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 23:59:42 -0500 Subject: Tux Magazine RIP In-Reply-To: <305593.24494.qm-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <305593.24494.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4599A06E.17882.328C1D9@sciguy.vex.net> On 1 Jan 2007 at 19:25, Colin McGregor wrote: > P.S. I have tossed an image of where I spent part of > the Christmas holidays up on the kde-look.org website > as can be seen here: > > www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=50970 > > Not a place in the sunny south.... Hey, at least you saw snow! In Oakville, we've been as dry as a bone! Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 05:13:05 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 00:13:05 -0500 Subject: Tux Magazine RIP In-Reply-To: <4599A06E.17882.328C1D9-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <4599A06E.17882.328C1D9@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <4599E9E1.2020109@telly.org> Paul King wrote: > Hey, at least you saw snow! In Oakville, we've been as dry as a bone! > Dry and above-zero on New Years' Day is something I can get used to... - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 06:53:36 2007 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 01:53:36 -0500 Subject: Tux Magazine RIP In-Reply-To: <4599E9E1.2020109-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4599A06E.17882.328C1D9@sciguy.vex.net> <4599E9E1.2020109@telly.org> Message-ID: On 1/2/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Dry and above-zero on New Years' Day is something I can get used to... I agree, but it scares me to think about how uncertain our future climate is. 15 years ago this type of weather would be unheard of in our area. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 08:18:17 2007 From: slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slackrat) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 09:18:17 +0100 Subject: [Very OT] Saddam Hanging Video -- Some comments In-Reply-To: <4599973B.18875.304D404-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> (Paul King's message of "Mon\, 01 Jan 2007 23\:20\:27 -0500") References: <4599269A.1020703@yahoo.ca> <4599973B.18875.304D404@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <87tzz96dva.fsf@azurservers.com> "Paul King" writes: > If you hear > from any major media outlet what the numbers are, let me know. On the other > hand, how easy is it to know how many American soldiers are dead? > http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/ and a pretty cool site although probably of more interest to your agressive southern neighbours: http://nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=182 -- Regards, Slackrat [Bill Henderson] [No _4Q_ for direct email] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 14:27:30 2007 From: mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Marcel Gagne) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 09:27:30 -0500 Subject: Another Marcel Book In-Reply-To: <45900951.7080704-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <45900951.7080704@golden.net> Message-ID: <200701020927.30635.mggagne@salmar.com> Hello John (and others), Happy New Year! Just catching up on email after ignoring it for the holidays. On Monday 25 December 2006 12:24, John Myshrall wrote: > During my daily check on Groklaw, I saw this. Congrats Marcel on another > fine book ! Thank you. This is a great little review (a review of three books, no less) but particularly good to me [ insert appropriate smiley here ]. What's interesting is that review comes out within a few days of my latest book being released . . . yes, I now have six books out. The new one (if I may be allowed a moment of shameless self-promotion) is called "Moving to Free Software". This one is a real stretch for me since it covers free *GASP!* Windows software. With two exceptions, the packages covered all open source and mostly GPL. Those of you who follow my ramblings know that I believe in what I like to call "transitional applications", open source software that may have been written for the Linux platform, but that is also available for Windows. I figure if people aren't willing to switch to a Linux desktop right away, perhaps I can get them using the same software on their Windows systems. Or, to put it another way, change is difficult for people. As with any dangerous addiction, quitting cold turkey isn't easy which is why there are products like nicotine gum and the patch -- these are a smoker's transitional applications. So it is with moving from Windows desktops to Linux desktops. When people finally get tired of the viruses and spyware (adware, etc), they will find that their new Linux system uses all the software they have grown accustomed to. If you want to hear me preach (or read me preaching) on this topic, you can either buy the book, or check out one of the many articles I've written on this subject [ yet another smiley goes here ]. All in all, this is a great book to give to those people who just can't kick the Windows habit quite yet. Check out yon URL for links to your fav e-tailers. http://www.marcelgagne.com/mtfs.html > I guess I'll have to buy this one to keep the collection going. Will > you be at the next Linux expo in Toronto ? My mini Linux library thus > far has been quite useful for educating people new to Linux. > > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061225020125627 Thanks for the Groklaw link as well. Always good to see nice things being said about your work. Take care out there. -- Marcel (Writer and Free Thinker at Large) Gagn? Note: This massagee wos nat speel or gramer-checkered. Mandatory home page reference - http://www.marcelgagne.com/ Author of the "Moving to Linux" series of books and the all new, "Moving to Free Software" Join the WFTL-LUG : http://www.marcelgagne.com/wftllugform.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 14:37:28 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 09:37:28 -0500 Subject: [Very OT] Saddam Hanging Video -- Some comments In-Reply-To: <87tzz96dva.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <4599973B.18875.304D404@sciguy.vex.net> (Paul King's message of "Mon\, 01 Jan 2007 23\:20\:27 -0500") Message-ID: <459A27D8.21966.1B5A007@sciguy.vex.net> On 2 Jan 2007 at 9:18, Slackrat wrote: > "Paul King" writes: > > > If you hear > > from any major media outlet what the numbers are, let me know. On the other > > hand, how easy is it to know how many American soldiers are dead? > > > http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/ Thanks for that. You indeed had to go to outside of major media outlets to get even *estimates* of the dead, thus proving my point (notice what the subtitle of the website says: you *won't* find this stuff on Fox or CNN. Or for that matter, C-Span, PBS, ABC, NBC or CBS). And this number is a sample based on surveyors calling Iraqi families and asking how many family members are dead. I wonder how they were contacted. And they cite the Washington Post. Kudos to the Washington Post for reporting it in some detail. In the same article, take note of George Bush's estimate. > > and a pretty cool site although probably of more interest to your > agressive southern neighbours: > > > http://nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=182 > > -- > Regards, Slackrat [Bill Henderson] [No _4Q_ for direct email] > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > __________ NOD32 1951 (20070101) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 16:29:22 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 11:29:22 -0500 Subject: web-security methods, advice please! In-Reply-To: <45985B96.2010500-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45985B96.2010500@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20070102162922.GA3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Dec 31, 2006 at 07:53:42PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I asked this earlier on TPM who've provided some great feedback. Now > I though I'd like to get feedback from the (more diverse) TLUG peoples. :) > > (Perl) Code below. > > I've started a web-based CRM program for my new company and so I am > more concerned with security than I have needed to be in the past. I was > hoping to run down my current plan to see what TLUG'ers think. > > I am not a cryptologist (or particularly good at math) and make no > claims to be a security expert of any kind. So please be brutal and > honest with my plans (a cracker would)! :) > > - Two steps; 1. password authentication and 2. Cookie sessions. > > Password; > > - When a user creates (or changes) their password, they send to the > server their desired password. > - Being a new password, I generate a 36 byte 'salt' string and store > this string in the database. > - I run their password through SHA256 to get an unpadded base64 hash > - I stick the salt onto this initial hash which I call my 'weak_key'. > - I then generate a new (base64 SHA256) hash which I call the 'weak_hash' > - I take this 'weak_hash', prefix the salt string and generate a new > SHA256 base64 hash. I repeat this step 40,000+ times on my old laptop > (will do it more on the server when I am done). (reasoning behind this > step here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_strengthening ). Whatever is the point of all the repeated work? If the hash is any good, doing it once is sufficient. > - When a user logs in later their password is again sent to the server. > - This time though the salt string is read from the DB and then all > the steps above are repeated to see if the same hash value is created. > > Cookie; > > - Once a user successfully logs in, I set a cookie with their user ID > number and a session hash. > - To create this session hash I create a random number and store it > in the database. I look at the current date on the server and then I > combine: [UID + Random # + Date + Client UA + Client IP Address] and > create a simple SHA256 base64 hash. > > - After this, each time the user calls the program, I: > - Read their UA string and their IP address. I recommend NOT including the users IP in the check. IP addresses can change often, even during a session for perfectly good reasons. If I was on dial up and my connection died and I reconnect and get a new IP form the provider, that is not a good reason for any sessions to stop working. > - Get the random number out of the DB. > - Check the current and previous date from the server. > - Read the UID and session hash from the client's cookie. > - Generate two hashes like I did above (one or today and yesterday's > date) and check to see if either match the session hash. If so, the > session is valid. If the previous date's hash matched, I update the > session hash (to account for people working over midnight server-time). > > > The salt string is a 36-byte string of alternating non-alphanumberic > characters -> digits -> mixed-case letters. The salt is changed whenever > the password is (re)set. > > I plan to use SSL to prevent sniffing but I don't know enough about > cross-site scripting attacks to know how to properly defend against them. > > Below is the test program I wrote for generating the password hash. I > am still working on the cookie code so I can't post that yet. > > Again, *Please* be brutal on your critiques of my methods. If my > thinking is flawed, I would be grateful to learn now rather than later. :) > > Also, I don't believe in security through obscurity in the slightest, > so if my methods can't survive being exposed, I'd also rather know now. :) So why not simply use the same password storage hash system as your system uses (I believe MD5 hashed passwords are the most commen since the old unix crypt was limited to 8 character passwords)? There already exists code for it, and if it is considered secure enough to encrypt your root password on the server, you would think it is good for the password storage of your web page users too. Why reinvent the wheel and use code that no one else does, meaning code that no one else will check for bugs and maintain. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 16:51:27 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 11:51:27 -0500 Subject: web-security methods, advice please! In-Reply-To: <20070102162922.GA3394-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <45985B96.2010500@alteeve.com> <20070102162922.GA3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <459A8D8F.3030806@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> SHA256 base64 hash. I repeat this step 40,000+ times on my old laptop >> (will do it more on the server when I am done). (reasoning behind this >> step here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_strengthening ). > > Whatever is the point of all the repeated work? If the hash is any > good, doing it once is sufficient. The idea, as I understood it, was to force a brute-force attach to try X-number of hashes per password, slowing down a brute-force attack to about 1 password/second. It may be overkill though, specially because of the server-side CPU resources required... >> - After this, each time the user calls the program, I: >> - Read their UA string and their IP address. > > I recommend NOT including the users IP in the check. IP addresses can > change often, even during a session for perfectly good reasons. If I > was on dial up and my connection died and I reconnect and get a new IP > form the provider, that is not a good reason for any sessions to stop > working. If you were on a website that was storing your personal info (ie: financial data, CC numbers, etc) would it not be worth having to log back in after a dropped connection for the extra security? How do banks handle this? (I don't use web banking). Would there be an alternative string I could/should use that would be hard for a cracker to duplicate? I worry about just using the UA because it is so easily spoofed. >> Again, *Please* be brutal on your critiques of my methods. If my >> thinking is flawed, I would be grateful to learn now rather than later. :) >> >> Also, I don't believe in security through obscurity in the slightest, >> so if my methods can't survive being exposed, I'd also rather know now. :) > > So why not simply use the same password storage hash system as your > system uses (I believe MD5 hashed passwords are the most commen since > the old unix crypt was limited to 8 character passwords)? There already > exists code for it, and if it is considered secure enough to encrypt > your root password on the server, you would think it is good for the > password storage of your web page users too. Why reinvent the wheel and > use code that no one else does, meaning code that no one else will check > for bugs and maintain. MD5 and SHA1 have been compromised. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Md5 "In 1996, a flaw was found with the design of MD5; while it was not a clearly fatal weakness, cryptographers began to recommend using other algorithms, such as SHA-1. In 2004, more serious flaws were discovered making further use of the algorithm for security purposes questionable." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA "It [SHA1] was considered to be the successor to MD5, an earlier, widely-used hash function. Both are reportedly compromised. The other four variants (SHA-224, SHA-256, SHA-384, and SHA-512) are sometimes collectively referred to as SHA-2 functions or simply SHA-2. No attacks have yet been reported on the SHA-2 variants, but since they are similar to SHA-1, researchers are worried, and are developing candidates for a new, better hashing standard" *nix systems that use '/etc/shadow' use a random 2-byte salt and add it to the user's password when (re)set before the hash is generated. Then the salt is thrown away. When a user tries to login, their password is run through (up to) 4096 combinations until either the proper hash is matched of the number of possible salts run out and the password the user supplied was deemed to be wrong. This slows down a brute-force attack a bit, but not much. So a person wanting to crack into a *nix system (assuming they have access to the password hashes from '/etc/shadow') wouldn't need to try very hard with an MD5 rainbow table if the user's password was otherwise weak. This is why I didn't want to duplicate the *nix shadow file method. It's not very secure anymore. I do agree though that using my own code isn't ideal, for exactly the reasons you mentioned. Perhaps there is some more tested canned code I could use? Thanks for your feedback!! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 17:15:19 2007 From: rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org (rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 10:15:19 -0700 (MST) Subject: web-security methods, advice please! In-Reply-To: <459A8D8F.3030806-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45985B96.2010500@alteeve.com> <20070102162922.GA3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <459A8D8F.3030806@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <45030.216.94.82.194.1167758119.squirrel@www.luckdancing.com> > > I do agree though that using my own code isn't ideal, for exactly the > reasons you mentioned. Perhaps there is some more tested canned code I > could use? I wonder if it might be worth your while to locate similar packages to yours and look at their approaches/discussions? You said it was a CRM app, right? Maybe taking a close look at the security methods used by SugarCRM or a similar package that's been in the wild for a while would help. Of course, this has probably occurred to you :-) Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 17:27:41 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 12:27:41 -0500 Subject: [Very OT] Saddam Hanging Video -- Some comments In-Reply-To: <4599973B.18875.304D404-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <4599269A.1020703@yahoo.ca> <459945E6.5000703@alteeve.com> <4599973B.18875.304D404@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <7ac602420701020927x7192358bi6dea55abea2efc6b@mail.gmail.com> I wasn't going to watch the video until Paul said this: > As for a frame of reference, people > in the know saw for certain the "official" story of the quietness and > cooperation of Saddam was shown to be a farce: he was anything but quiet or > complacent -- he was clearly rebellious right to the bitter end. And because > the video was freely available, the media could not be shown up by some wanker > holding up a cell phone, so they had to report on it also. And now that I've seen the video, I wonder what I'm missing. Perhaps I have misunderstood what you mean by "rebellious right to the bitter end"? While a little unnerving, the video on pandachute.com doesn't really show much. From the doom-and-gloom in this thread, I was expecting to see Saddam convulsing at the end of the noose, or something (which is why I didn't originally want to watch the video). What I did see was the guards put the noose around his neck, and then a split second of Saddam falling, after which, the screen goes black. I couldn't understand any of the audio, but there was some shouting here and there. Throughout, Saddam seems calm. I suppose his calmness could be his final rebellion, but the video quality is poor, and his expression could just as easily be that of a man who has come to terms with his impending doom, or that of a man too much in shock to have any real emotion to share. I agree with a lot of the politically-motivated discussion in this thread--the wrongness of the war, the insensitivity of the people in the west, the failings of the major media outlets, etc.--but I don't see how this video can make much of an impact as a reality check for those of us in the West (myself included) who have never had to deal with unnatural death, war, or the tyranny of a sociopathic dictator. Personally, I was more affected by the images of the planes flying into the World Trade Center that were played in a loop on all the major news stations for the first week after September 11, 2001, and I found that entire event to be surreal. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 18:42:20 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:42:20 -0500 Subject: [Very OT] Saddam Hanging Video -- Some comments In-Reply-To: <7ac602420701020927x7192358bi6dea55abea2efc6b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4599269A.1020703@yahoo.ca> <459945E6.5000703@alteeve.com> <4599973B.18875.304D404@sciguy.vex.net> <7ac602420701020927x7192358bi6dea55abea2efc6b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990701021042s625228fcre788c3eaffcd5b0e@mail.gmail.com> On 1/2/07, Ian Petersen wrote: > Personally, I was more affected by the images of the planes flying > into the World Trade Center that were played in a loop on all the > major news stations for the first week after September 11, 2001, and I > found that entire event to be surreal. I have fond memories of seeing live broadcasts of it.. and deciding to switch to a Canadian station to learn about it.. and I ended up watching a rerun of Friends on CBC or some such. yep.. surreal.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 18:45:08 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:45:08 -0500 Subject: web-security methods, advice please! In-Reply-To: <459A8D8F.3030806-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45985B96.2010500@alteeve.com> <20070102162922.GA3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <459A8D8F.3030806@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990701021045y4c0c3e83l92c3507f293faae@mail.gmail.com> On 1/2/07, Madison Kelly wrote: > The idea, as I understood it, was to force a brute-force attach to try > X-number of hashes per password, slowing down a brute-force attack to > about 1 password/second. It may be overkill though, specially because of > the server-side CPU resources required... I'm confused.. why not implement this idea server-side.. to automatically delay multiple password attempts? Or better yet.. five password failures locks an IP out for x hours and logs the event. Perhaps these ideas would help against the brute force worries. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 19:38:23 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 19:38:23 +0000 Subject: web-security methods, advice please! In-Reply-To: <1e55af990701021045y4c0c3e83l92c3507f293faae-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <45985B96.2010500@alteeve.com> <20070102162922.GA3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <459A8D8F.3030806@alteeve.com> <1e55af990701021045y4c0c3e83l92c3507f293faae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 1/2/07, Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/2/07, Madison Kelly wrote: > > The idea, as I understood it, was to force a brute-force attach to try > > X-number of hashes per password, slowing down a brute-force attack to > > about 1 password/second. It may be overkill though, specially because of > > the server-side CPU resources required... > > I'm confused.. why not implement this idea server-side.. to > automatically delay multiple password attempts? > > Or better yet.. five password failures locks an IP out for x hours and > logs the event. > > Perhaps these ideas would help against the brute force worries. Throw in with this... Any time a password failure is detected for a particular IP, delay for somewhat increasing periods of time before releasing the connection, as well as before responding to new connections from that IP. Every time there's a failure, the delays increase [somewhat exponentially]; success drops it back to 0... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 20:00:43 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 15:00:43 -0500 Subject: web-security methods, advice please! In-Reply-To: <459A8D8F.3030806-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45985B96.2010500@alteeve.com> <20070102162922.GA3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <459A8D8F.3030806@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20070102200043.GB3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 11:51:27AM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >>SHA256 base64 hash. I repeat this step 40,000+ times on my old laptop > >>(will do it more on the server when I am done). (reasoning behind this > >>step here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_strengthening ). > > > >Whatever is the point of all the repeated work? If the hash is any > >good, doing it once is sufficient. > > The idea, as I understood it, was to force a brute-force attach to try > X-number of hashes per password, slowing down a brute-force attack to > about 1 password/second. It may be overkill though, specially because of > the server-side CPU resources required... > > >>- After this, each time the user calls the program, I: > >> - Read their UA string and their IP address. > > > >I recommend NOT including the users IP in the check. IP addresses can > >change often, even during a session for perfectly good reasons. If I > >was on dial up and my connection died and I reconnect and get a new IP > >form the provider, that is not a good reason for any sessions to stop > >working. > > If you were on a website that was storing your personal info (ie: > financial data, CC numbers, etc) would it not be worth having to log > back in after a dropped connection for the extra security? How do banks > handle this? (I don't use web banking). Would there be an alternative > string I could/should use that would be hard for a cracker to duplicate? > I worry about just using the UA because it is so easily spoofed. When using https I would think my valid session cookie should be sufficient. There are also some people who have multiple active IPs through load balancing (although not very common) where two http requests may come from different source IPs. I am not convinced requireing the IP to stay the same adds much if anything to security, but I am convinced that for a few people it will cause problems. > MD5 and SHA1 have been compromised. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Md5 > > "In 1996, a flaw was found with the design of MD5; while it was not a > clearly fatal weakness, cryptographers began to recommend using other > algorithms, such as SHA-1. In 2004, more serious flaws were discovered > making further use of the algorithm for security purposes questionable." > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA > > "It [SHA1] was considered to be the successor to MD5, an earlier, > widely-used hash function. Both are reportedly compromised. > > The other four variants (SHA-224, SHA-256, SHA-384, and SHA-512) are > sometimes collectively referred to as SHA-2 functions or simply SHA-2. > No attacks have yet been reported on the SHA-2 variants, but since they > are similar to SHA-1, researchers are worried, and are developing > candidates for a new, better hashing standard" > > *nix systems that use '/etc/shadow' use a random 2-byte salt and add it > to the user's password when (re)set before the hash is generated. Then > the salt is thrown away. When a user tries to login, their password is > run through (up to) 4096 combinations until either the proper hash is > matched of the number of possible salts run out and the password the > user supplied was deemed to be wrong. This slows down a brute-force > attack a bit, but not much. So a person wanting to crack into a *nix > system (assuming they have access to the password hashes from > '/etc/shadow') wouldn't need to try very hard with an MD5 rainbow table > if the user's password was otherwise weak. I believe with MD5 passwords, the salt is much larger, and is kept in the password file. With the larger salt, generating a precalculated lookup table with become very very large and time consuming, while reducing the time to check the password under normal use. > This is why I didn't want to duplicate the *nix shadow file method. It's > not very secure anymore. Well if the user password is weak, it probably still won't take very many tries to break it no matter what you do. > I do agree though that using my own code isn't ideal, for exactly the > reasons you mentioned. Perhaps there is some more tested canned code I > could use? Well you could always use SHA-512, since at least no one has broken it yet, and people have tried. Writing your own you just risk making one that isn't secure but you don't know it because no one has really looked at it. I certainly won't try inventing my own password hashing method. Just look at GSM, WEP, windows passwords, and many others for examples of what happens when people try to invent encryption systems without knowing what they are doing. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 20:02:27 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 15:02:27 -0500 Subject: Adding Hard Drives and IRQ Conflicts Message-ID: <459A7403.30792.2DF2749@sciguy.vex.net> Hello I have an ASUS AV7-133 motherboard using an Athlon K7 processor, and I have found to my horror that I have umpteen devices all sharing IRQ 9. This includes: ACPI (not sure what that is) Video card My sound card My ethernet card On-board USB ports PCI card USB ports My PCI Ultra ATA card (connected to one drive) On my XP system, I found this while looking into the "System Information" spawned by my Palm Desktop application. I find it rather odd that all these devices are drawing on only one IRQ. In fact, I can't think offhand of anything I have that isn't going through IRQ 9. Unless you count the on-board ATA controllers. I suspect that this is not the operating system's fault. This is hardware-based. I have a new hard drive that uses my PCI ATA card. When it is connected and powered up, things work OK for a while, then I hear a "click" inside the box (sounds like a hard drive "click"), then the operating system freezes indefinitely (no mouse, no keyboard) until I reboot it. The obvious problem here is with open files, and indeed many files got corrupted. Removing the hard drive removed the freezing problem. For anyone who knows more about hardware than me: does it actually sound like an IRQ conflict (haven't heard of that problem in years). It appears that there is an upper limit on the number of devices on the same IRQ until the system starts to get confused. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 20:03:11 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 15:03:11 -0500 Subject: web-security methods, advice please! In-Reply-To: <1e55af990701021045y4c0c3e83l92c3507f293faae-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <45985B96.2010500@alteeve.com> <20070102162922.GA3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <459A8D8F.3030806@alteeve.com> <1e55af990701021045y4c0c3e83l92c3507f293faae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070102200311.GC3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 01:45:08PM -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > I'm confused.. why not implement this idea server-side.. to > automatically delay multiple password attempts? > > Or better yet.. five password failures locks an IP out for x hours and > logs the event. > > Perhaps these ideas would help against the brute force worries. Well making a strong hash is more for making sure you can't crack the password if you somehow get a hold of the password database. Of course if you can get the password database, you already have access to the machine it would seem, in which case why try to break the passwords, just take the data you want directly instead and forget about the whole password mess. It isn't as if these are password hashes sent over the internet. The plaintext password is being sent over the internet so the hash is only to protect against decoding the password if you manage to crack the security of the server in the first place. Probably spending energy in trying to secure the wrong thing. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 20:48:26 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 15:48:26 -0500 Subject: Adding Hard Drives and IRQ Conflicts In-Reply-To: <459A7403.30792.2DF2749-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <459A7403.30792.2DF2749@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <20070102204825.GD3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 03:02:27PM -0500, Paul King wrote: > I have an ASUS AV7-133 motherboard using an Athlon K7 processor, and I have > found to my horror that I have umpteen devices all sharing IRQ 9. This > includes: > ACPI (not sure what that is) Advanced Configuration and Power management Interface (or something like that). It is an interface for managing device configuration and power management. It replaced APM among other things. It is quite useful (when not broken, which on many BIOS's it is). > Video card > My sound card > My ethernet card > On-board USB ports > PCI card USB ports > My PCI Ultra ATA card (connected to one drive) Well normally interrupts 9 through 11 are available to be assigned for PCI interrupts A through D. PCI is designed to share interrupts so it usually isn't a problem, although not sharing does have a very slight performance benefit. Often you can cause changes to the interrupt assignments by changing which physical PCI slot a device is plugged into. Onboard devices you can't change of course. Another way to affect things is to disable onboard devices that aren't needed to free up additional interrupts for use by PCI, for example parallel or serial ports, or parhaps the PS/2 mouse port (irq 12) if you have joined this millenium and moved to the far supperior USB mice. I have seen indications that some video cards don't actually like sharing their IRQ with certain types of devices. Often moving the conflicting device to another slot will resolve the issue with the video card. Interrupts used by standard devices: 0:timer (gotta have that one at least until HPET or APIC or something else takes over that job. Not likely to go away anytime soon though). 1:keyboard controller (if you have a usb keyboard, it might be possible for this one to free up although I doubt it). 2:second interrupt controller cascade interrupt 3: second serial port (if you don't use serial, you can often free this one by disabling the serial port in the bios). 4: first serial port (same as above). 5: sometimes used for a second isa parallel port, or older sound blaster cards or older onboard audio (mainly anything isa based or emulating isa hardware). Can often be free for other uses. 6: Floppy controller. Might be able to free it if you can disable the floppy controller in the bios, although often you can't. Not having any floppy drives enabled does not mean that the floppy controller is not still enabled. 7: first parallel port. Can often be freed by disabling the parallel port in the bios. 8: Real Time Clock. Gotta have that one. 9: Usually free for use, often used for ACPI or other PCI related hardware. Sometimes used for video cards (although that was mainly back in the EGA era). 10: Usually free for use by PCI 11: Usually free for use by PCI 12: PS/2 mouse port, if enabled. Some systems can disable this port in the bios freeing the interrupt for other uses. 13: FPU interrupt. Legacy thing due to the fact the math processor used to be a seperate chip and needed an interrupt to communicate with the CPU to tell it when it needed attension. Even though the FPU is now integrated, the interrupt is still there for backwards compability with old software I believe. 14: first IDE port. If you don't have an IDE port, and you don't have SATA pretending to be IDE (usually the case for many intel chipset boards, especially if they need to be able to run windows), then you can disable the port and free the IRQ. 15: second ide port. Same as above. I have run systems with ide disabled before that used PCI scsi for all disks, and I used irq 15 for a parallel port on an isa card in that machine. It actually ran all PCI devices on a single interrupt since I needed 4 serial ports and 2 parallel ports on that machine, which was irq 14 since I had IDE disabled entirely at the time. Machines which contain an APIC (advanced programmable interrupt controller) can have interrupts above 15, and are much less likely to be sharing interrupts in general. > On my XP system, I found this while looking into the "System Information" > spawned by my Palm Desktop application. I find it rather odd that all these > devices are drawing on only one IRQ. > > In fact, I can't think offhand of anything I have that isn't going through IRQ > 9. Unless you count the on-board ATA controllers. I suspect that this is not > the operating system's fault. This is hardware-based. > > I have a new hard drive that uses my PCI ATA card. When it is connected and > powered up, things work OK for a while, then I hear a "click" inside the box > (sounds like a hard drive "click"), then the operating system freezes > indefinitely (no mouse, no keyboard) until I reboot it. The obvious problem > here is with open files, and indeed many files got corrupted. Removing the hard > drive removed the freezing problem. > > For anyone who knows more about hardware than me: does it actually sound like > an IRQ conflict (haven't heard of that problem in years). It appears that there > is an upper limit on the number of devices on the same IRQ until the system > starts to get confused. Well a few ideas: You overloaded your power supply by adding another drive The driver for the IDE controller is buggy The IDE controller is broken -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 20:50:42 2007 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 15:50:42 -0500 Subject: Digital Copyright Canada Message-ID: <200701021550.43446.marc@lijour.net> Happy new Year! What about starting this new year with good resolution? I haven't seen mentioned the Digital Copyright Canada petition link on the list http://www.digital-copyright.ca/petition/ict/ Thank you CLUE. ml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 20:53:22 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 15:52:22 +1859 Subject: Help turning old hardware into a firewall Message-ID: <7ac602420701021253o2c0d6107rc676d0ab0c27a6fd@mail.gmail.com> Hello all, I have an old HP Pavilion 8260 that I'd like to turn into a Smoothwall firewall for my home network but I'm having trouble with the new network cards that I bought for the internal and DMZ interfaces. I hope someone here can offer some suggestions. The motherboard is a KL97-XV. I have an old 10/100 network card based on the Realtek 8139 chipset and it works fine with the 8139too module. I went out and bought two D-Link DGE-530T 10/100/1000 network cards assuming they would work fine. Googling suggests they would function using the skge module, but it appears my motherboard is too old because lspci doesn't even list the devices. On the D-Link box, it says I need a 32-bit PCI bus that is "Specification 2.2 Compliant". Running dmesg on the machine lists, amongst lots of other things: ... ACPI: Unable to locate RSDP ... Local APIC not detected. Using dummy APIC emulation. ... PCI: PCI BIOS revision 2.10 entry at 0xfd9c3, last bus=1 <---- is this 2.10 relevant? Setting up standard PCI resources ... PCI: Probing PCI hardware PCI: Probing PCI hardware (bus 00) PCI quirk: region 8000-803f claimed by PIIX4 ACPI PCI quirk: region 2180-218f claimed by PIIX4 SMB Boot video device is 0000:00:0e.0 PCI: Using IRQ router PIIX/ICH [8086/7110] at 0000:00:07.0 PCI: Bridge: 0000:00:01.0 IO window: disabled. MEM window: disabled. PREFETCH window: disabled. The output from lspci is livecd ~ # lspci 00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 440LX/EX - 82443LX/EX Host bridge (rev 03) 00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 440LX/EX - 82443LX/EX AGP bridge (rev 03) 00:07.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ISA (rev 01) 00:07.1 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 IDE (rev 01) 00:07.2 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 USB (rev 01) 00:07.3 Bridge: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ACPI (rev 01) 00:0b.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ (rev 10) 00:0e.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc 264VT [Mach64 VT] (rev 40) livecd ~ # lspci -x -t -[0000:00]-+-00.0 +-01.0-[0000:01]-- +-07.0 +-07.1 +-07.2 +-07.3 +-0b.0 \-0e.0 I've never had such trouble with hardware before, so I'm really not sure what to do next. I found a couple of forum pages suggesting that a BIOS upgrade sometimes fixes problems similar to mine, but I have no clue where to find such an upgrade. (Googling has turned up little.) Is it possible that the PCI hardware on the motherboard would support PCI spec 2.2 if it had the appropriate BIOS? Or should I just return the cards and buy some 10/100 cards, instead? (I'd rather not return the cards because I bought them from TigerDirect, and I expect I'll have to pay a restocking fee if I return them....) Thanks, Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 20:57:45 2007 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 15:57:45 -0500 Subject: Adding Hard Drives and IRQ Conflicts Message-ID: <459AC749.8000601@rogers.com> > > I have umpteen devices all sharing IRQ 9 IRQ 9 is usually a redirect to IRQ 10 - 15, so unless you are experiencing a significant problem, you shouldn't be concerned. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 22:00:04 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 17:00:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: Help turning old hardware into a firewall In-Reply-To: <7ac602420701021253o2c0d6107rc676d0ab0c27a6fd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420701021253o2c0d6107rc676d0ab0c27a6fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Ian Petersen | I have an old HP Pavilion 8260 that I'd like to turn into a Smoothwall | firewall for my home network but I'm having trouble with the new | network cards that I bought for the internal and DMZ interfaces. | I've never had such trouble with hardware before, so I'm really not | sure what to do next. I found a couple of forum pages suggesting that | a BIOS upgrade sometimes fixes problems similar to mine, but I have no | clue where to find such an upgrade. BIOS Version 4.06 (3 Jun 1998): http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/SoftwareDescription.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&prodTypeId=12454&prodSeriesId=46174&prodNameId=14076&swEnvOID=54&swLang=8&mode=2&taskId=135&swItem=pv102en | (Googling has turned up little.) I got this through Googling. | Is it possible that the PCI hardware on the motherboard would support | PCI spec 2.2 if it had the appropriate BIOS? I've not had such a problem, but then I've not tried 1G network cards. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 2 23:02:03 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 18:02:03 -0500 Subject: Help turning old hardware into a firewall In-Reply-To: <7ac602420701021253o2c0d6107rc676d0ab0c27a6fd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420701021253o2c0d6107rc676d0ab0c27a6fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <459AE46B.4090203@pppoe.ca> Ian Petersen wrote: > Hello all, > > I have an old HP Pavilion 8260 that I'd like to turn into a Smoothwall > firewall for my home network but I'm having trouble with the new > network cards that I bought for the internal and DMZ interfaces. I > hope someone here can offer some suggestions. > > The motherboard is a KL97-XV. I have an old 10/100 network card based > on the Realtek 8139 chipset and it works fine with the 8139too module. > I went out and bought two D-Link DGE-530T 10/100/1000 network cards > assuming they would work fine. Googling suggests they would function > using the skge module, but it appears my motherboard is too old > because lspci doesn't even list the devices. On the D-Link box, it > says I need a 32-bit PCI bus that is "Specification 2.2 Compliant". > Running dmesg on the machine lists, amongst lots of other things: > > ... > ACPI: Unable to locate RSDP > ... > Local APIC not detected. Using dummy APIC emulation. > ... > PCI: PCI BIOS revision 2.10 entry at 0xfd9c3, last bus=1 <---- is > this 2.10 relevant? > Setting up standard PCI resources > ... > PCI: Probing PCI hardware > PCI: Probing PCI hardware (bus 00) > PCI quirk: region 8000-803f claimed by PIIX4 ACPI > PCI quirk: region 2180-218f claimed by PIIX4 SMB > Boot video device is 0000:00:0e.0 > PCI: Using IRQ router PIIX/ICH [8086/7110] at 0000:00:07.0 > PCI: Bridge: 0000:00:01.0 > IO window: disabled. > MEM window: disabled. > PREFETCH window: disabled. > > > The output from lspci is > > livecd ~ # lspci > 00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 440LX/EX - 82443LX/EX Host > bridge (rev 03) > 00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 440LX/EX - 82443LX/EX AGP bridge > (rev 03) > 00:07.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ISA (rev 01) > 00:07.1 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 IDE (rev 01) > 00:07.2 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 USB (rev > 01) > 00:07.3 Bridge: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ACPI (rev 01) > 00:0b.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. > RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ (rev 10) > 00:0e.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc 264VT [Mach64 > VT] (rev 40) > livecd ~ # lspci -x -t > -[0000:00]-+-00.0 > +-01.0-[0000:01]-- > +-07.0 > +-07.1 > +-07.2 > +-07.3 > +-0b.0 > \-0e.0 > > I've never had such trouble with hardware before, so I'm really not > sure what to do next. I found a couple of forum pages suggesting that > a BIOS upgrade sometimes fixes problems similar to mine, but I have no > clue where to find such an upgrade. (Googling has turned up little.) > Is it possible that the PCI hardware on the motherboard would support > PCI spec 2.2 if it had the appropriate BIOS? Or should I just return > the cards and buy some 10/100 cards, instead? (I'd rather not return > the cards because I bought them from TigerDirect, and I expect I'll > have to pay a restocking fee if I return them....) If you want a couple of old NICs, I can bring them to the next meeting on January 9. If you have an old hard drive that you want to trade, that'll be great. If you don't, you still can have the NICs :-) . Just tell me if you want them, that way I'll know. Regards Meng > > Thanks, > Ian > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 03:09:09 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 22:09:09 -0500 Subject: web-security methods, advice please! In-Reply-To: <45994560.9000603-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <45985B96.2010500@alteeve.com> <1e55af990612311852i41392c51u26a699d39d59a1b@mail.gmail.com> <4598780C.8050609@alteeve.com> <45994560.9000603@rogers.com> Message-ID: <459B1E55.80605@alteeve.com> James Knott wrote: >> This is my own company though that I am starting on a shoe-string >> budget. There are many things I should be contracting out, not least >> being security, but I simply can't afford to do this at this point >> (though I may well later if/when business picks up). >> >> So for now, I am hoping that my prying questions will close at least a >> few of the holes I have certainly missed. :) >> > > One thing to bear in mind, is that you can never prove a system to be > secure. You can only fail to break in. There have been many times in > the past, when someone insisted they had a secure method. The only > reason they could make that claim, was they didn't know enough about > possible failures to recognize them. Even with widely scrutinized open > source security methods, such as PGP etc., there is no proof that it's > secure, only that despite all that inspection by experts, no one's yet > found a way in, and so it's presumed to be secure at the moment. Heh, I've learned enough humility through the years to know that I know just enough to get myself in healthy trouble. :) It's also why I am looking for feedback and advice. I know that, if my company does well down the road, I might have enough potential "goodies" for a cracker to take interest and spend some time on getting in. If someone gets root shell access (the db runs under a different user than the webserver), I figured the gig is up anyway. Given that, I want to protect from the web interface. So I want to lay an at least half-decent ground work now rather than wait until I get cracked before realizing "nows the time". :p Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 03:09:58 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 22:09:58 -0500 Subject: web-security methods, advice please! In-Reply-To: References: <45985B96.2010500@alteeve.com> <20070102162922.GA3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <459A8D8F.3030806@alteeve.com> <1e55af990701021045y4c0c3e83l92c3507f293faae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <459B1E86.4010109@alteeve.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 1/2/07, Sy Ali wrote: >> On 1/2/07, Madison Kelly wrote: >> > The idea, as I understood it, was to force a brute-force attach to try >> > X-number of hashes per password, slowing down a brute-force attack to >> > about 1 password/second. It may be overkill though, specially >> because of >> > the server-side CPU resources required... >> >> I'm confused.. why not implement this idea server-side.. to >> automatically delay multiple password attempts? >> >> Or better yet.. five password failures locks an IP out for x hours and >> logs the event. >> >> Perhaps these ideas would help against the brute force worries. > > Throw in with this... > > Any time a password failure is detected for a particular IP, delay for > somewhat increasing periods of time before releasing the connection, > as well as before responding to new connections from that IP. > > Every time there's a failure, the delays increase [somewhat > exponentially]; success drops it back to 0... Very smart, and will be done. Thanks! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 04:38:33 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 23:38:33 -0500 Subject: web-security methods, advice please! In-Reply-To: <45985B96.2010500-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45985B96.2010500@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <200701022338.34107.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Sunday 31 December 2006 19:53, Madison Kelly wrote: > ? ?- To create this session hash I create a random number and store it > in the database. I look at the current date on the server and then I > combine: [UID + Random # + Date + Client UA + Client IP Address] and > create a simple SHA256 base64 hash. I have tried this and I would say you at least have to drop the IP address (perhaps not, depends on what traffic you're expecting). There are clients where you can't depend on a user coming from the same IP all the time, they are proxied and the proxy can change from click to click (this was the case with AOL about 2 years ago when I was checking into it). -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 04:52:55 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 23:52:55 -0500 Subject: web-security methods, advice please! In-Reply-To: <200701022338.34107.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <45985B96.2010500@alteeve.com> <200701022338.34107.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <459B36A7.1060608@alteeve.com> Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Sunday 31 December 2006 19:53, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> - To create this session hash I create a random number and store it >> in the database. I look at the current date on the server and then I >> combine: [UID + Random # + Date + Client UA + Client IP Address] and >> create a simple SHA256 base64 hash. > > I have tried this and I would say you at least have to drop the IP address > (perhaps not, depends on what traffic you're expecting). > > There are clients where you can't depend on a user coming from the same IP all > the time, they are proxied and the proxy can change from click to click (this > was the case with AOL about 2 years ago when I was checking into it). > That's three or four recommendations to drop the IP, so yeah, it's gone. :) Mady -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 06:01:23 2007 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 01:01:23 -0500 Subject: (OT) Canadian FLOSS projects? Message-ID: <200701030101.23560.marc@lijour.net> Hi does somebody know what are the Canadian FLOSS projects? I stumbled across this article: http://pkp.sfu.ca/node/626 which let me thinking... Marc Lijour -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 06:06:19 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 01:06:19 -0500 Subject: (OT) Canadian FLOSS projects? In-Reply-To: <200701030101.23560.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200701030101.23560.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <459B47DB.50502@alteeve.com> Marc Lijour wrote: > Hi > > does somebody know what are the Canadian FLOSS projects? > > I stumbled across this article: http://pkp.sfu.ca/node/626 which let me > thinking... > > Marc Lijour My (humble) backup program is, and I know Scott's AtomOS is. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 06:19:29 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 01:19:29 -0500 Subject: (OT) Canadian FLOSS projects? In-Reply-To: <200701030101.23560.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200701030101.23560.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <20070103061929.GA17075@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 01:01:23AM -0500, Marc Lijour wrote: > >does somebody know what are the Canadian FLOSS projects? I think the most significant one is probably OpenBSD and it's off-shoots, OpenSSH, OpenNTP etc. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 12:47:04 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 07:47:04 -0500 Subject: a regular supply of perfectly compatible pcmcia cards Message-ID: Hi LUG ! I want to stock perfectly compatible 802.11 and hardwire ethernet PCMCIA cards, and sell (and use) them at the caffe. I put these questions to you 1) what's the best (100% compatible + good price) PCMCIA 802.11 b/g card ? 2) what's the best PCMCIA ethernet card ? 3) what's the best source of the above ? I'm hoping to answer the question "where can I get a linux compatible network card ?" with "linuxcaffe". many thanks, djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 13:31:47 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 08:31:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: a regular supply of perfectly compatible pcmcia cards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070103133147.94608.qmail@web88213.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- David J Patrick wrote: > Hi LUG ! > I want to stock perfectly compatible 802.11 and > hardwire ethernet PCMCIA > cards, and sell (and use) them at the caffe. > I put these questions to you > > 1) what's the best (100% compatible + good price) > PCMCIA 802.11 b/g card ? Well I am using an SMC SMCWCB-G cardbus card, which works well under the MadWIFI driver. Only catch with the driver is that the two "idiot" lights, that show Link and Activity do not light up when the card is in operation. Not sure if the above card is still available, but it was about $20 when I bought it in 2006. > 2) what's the best PCMCIA ethernet card ? Best I have ever found is the Xircom "RealPort Ethernet 10/100+Modem56". No long in production (and has not been for a few years), but is slick in that the Ethernet port is built into the card itself (it is one of the type 3 (thick) cards, and even so the Ethernet port is a TIGHT fit. Still, very nice not needing one of those oddball outside cable adaptors). I got mine used as part of an equipment trade. > 3) what's the best source of the above ? Classic problem with the above is that Xircom is no longer available new, and who might have a quantity of used Xircoms I have no idea. As for the SMC, the problem there is the way firms change card chipsets and yet leave the model number the same. So, even if you find SMC SMCWCB-G wireless cards you will have to ask "Is this the same SMC SMCWCB-G card?". > I'm hoping to answer the question > "where can I get a linux compatible network card ?" > with > "linuxcaffe". > many thanks, > djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 13:41:51 2007 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 08:41:51 -0500 Subject: (OT) Canadian FLOSS projects? In-Reply-To: <200701030101.23560.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200701030101.23560.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <200701030841.51995.ican@netrover.com> https://sourceforge.net/projects/simpl https://sourceforge.net/projects/ioanywhere https://sourceforge.net/projects/opndrs are Canadian projects which I facilitate. The IO Anywhere project has a Canadian hardware dimension as well, headquartered in Kitchener. bob On Wednesday 03 January 2007 01:01 am, Marc Lijour wrote: > Hi > > does somebody know what are the Canadian FLOSS projects? > > I stumbled across this article: http://pkp.sfu.ca/node/626 which let me > thinking... > > Marc Lijour > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 14:03:56 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 09:03:56 -0500 Subject: OT: Birth of a new geek(ette)! Message-ID: <459BB7CC.1050003@alteeve.com> Long-time TLUG'er Lance Squire and his wife Kim has there second baby last night, Megan Squire at 9lbs 9ozs! Their first son, Logan coming up on three is already well on his way to being an uber-geek of the future and I am sure his sister will follow in her parent' proud footsteps. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 14:17:13 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 09:17:13 -0500 Subject: OT: Birth of a new geek(ette)! In-Reply-To: <459BB7CC.1050003-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <459BB7CC.1050003@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 03/01/07, Madison Kelly wrote: > > Long-time TLUG'er Lance Squire and his wife Kim has there second baby > last night, Megan Squire at 9lbs 9ozs! gift ideas; bib with pocket protector ? little lab coat ? Fisher Price oscilloscope ? djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 14:23:09 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 09:23:09 -0500 Subject: (OT) Canadian FLOSS projects? In-Reply-To: <20070103061929.GA17075-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <200701030101.23560.marc@lijour.net> <20070103061929.GA17075@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1167834189.23496.133.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Wed, 2007-01-03 at 01:19 -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 01:01:23AM -0500, Marc Lijour wrote: > > > >does somebody know what are the Canadian FLOSS projects? > > I think the most significant one is probably OpenBSD and it's > off-shoots, OpenSSH, OpenNTP etc. We're working on Barry, Blackberry tools for Linux. How would one classify it to one country? In our case Barry is a new project with very few developers. What about OpenBSD, that must have developers globally? -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 14:24:05 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 09:24:05 -0500 Subject: (OT) Canadian FLOSS projects? In-Reply-To: <200701030841.51995.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200701030101.23560.marc@lijour.net> <200701030841.51995.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: On 03/01/07, bob wrote: > > The IO Anywhere project has a Canadian hardware dimension as well, > headquartered in Kitchener. what is IOanywhere ? (couldn't quite determine from lazy look at sites) I need to set up an array (30x) of 0-19VDC sources, to drive lighting controllers. is there an appliance, or components to do that sort of thing ? djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 14:25:36 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 09:25:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: (OT) Canadian FLOSS projects? In-Reply-To: <200701030101.23560.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200701030101.23560.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <50842.207.188.66.250.1167834336.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> We manage the Open Instrumentation Project, a usb oscilloscope and waveform generator supported by open-source software in Tcl/Tk. Peter > Hi > > does somebody know what are the Canadian FLOSS projects? > > I stumbled across this article: http://pkp.sfu.ca/node/626 which let me > thinking... > > Marc Lijour > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 15:18:16 2007 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 10:18:16 -0500 Subject: (OT) Canadian FLOSS projects? In-Reply-To: References: <200701030101.23560.marc@lijour.net> <200701030841.51995.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <200701031018.17886.ican@netrover.com> On Wednesday 03 January 2007 09:24 am, David J Patrick wrote: > On 03/01/07, bob wrote: > > The IO Anywhere project has a Canadian hardware dimension as well, > > headquartered in Kitchener. > > what is IOanywhere ? (couldn't quite determine from lazy look at sites) There are some photos and references here: http://hometoys.com/htinews/apr06/articles/appliance/part2.htm The students of my online Intro to Linux Programming course routinely "play" with an IO Anywhere appliance which is online (at least sometimes online) at the IO Anywhere headquarters. http://www.icanprogram.com/42ux/lesson12/lesson12.html If you go to the main IO Anywhere website (http://www.io-anywhere.ca) you can interact with that same live IO Anywhere appliance via the "Try Me" tab. (Last time I tried it would only worked via my Firefox browser and not Konqueror ??) > > I need to set up an array (30x) of 0-19VDC sources, to drive lighting > controllers. > is there an appliance, or components to do that sort of thing ? > djp You'd need to contact the engineers at IO Anywhere (www.io-anywhere.ca) with your specific specs to get a definitive answer. As the facilitator of the LGPL'd IO Anywhere Library project, I'm aware of some of the areas where this device has been deployed. These include a confocal laser eye scanner, building automation, point of sale, pharma pill press controllers and insitu steam valve testing. Certainly if you want to web enable some I/O in my experience this appliance is quite capable. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 15:34:45 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 10:34:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: (OT) Canadian FLOSS projects? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <914156.36660.qm@web88213.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- David J Patrick wrote: > On 03/01/07, bob wrote: > > > > > The IO Anywhere project has a Canadian hardware > dimension as well, > > headquartered in Kitchener. > > > what is IOanywhere ? (couldn't quite determine from > lazy look at sites) > > I need to set up an array (30x) of 0-19VDC sources, > to drive lighting > controllers. > is there an appliance, or components to do that sort > of thing ? Have a look at MisterHouse: misterhouse.net Which is an open source home automation project available for Linux and other OSs. Out of the box the program is cute/useful, with a bit of tweaking (and external hardware) it could easily do what you note above. Do be somewhat wary of the X-10 standard hardware for home automation (some of which does work with the MisterHouse software). It is inexpensive, readily available, but only sort of works, namely it tends to get false positives/negatives in the real world (i.e.: I have one X-10 lamp that tends to turn itself on for no visible reason...). Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 15:38:25 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 10:38:25 -0500 Subject: Recent Spadina/College retail experience Message-ID: Hi TLUG, I upgraded my wife's computer from Windows 98 to Windows XP for Christmas, with the unexpected side effect that the motherboard audio stopped working (CMI something or other -- it doesn't matter now). After flailing around and trying to fix it, I decided to visit Spadina/College for a new PCI sound card card. I usually patronize Sonnam[1], but their web site suggested that they were out of stock of the $40 PCI sound card that I wanted, and Hardware Direct[2] seemed to have a suitable card for $20. So, I love a bargain, and headed to Hardware Direct. Well, the place was crowded as they were still dealing with their extended Boxing Day clearance, so I sidled up to the counter and waited for a staff person to help me out. While I waited, and waited, and waited, I observed that three of the four guys behind the counter were spending a lot of time searching through the counter displays and shelving units for stock that didn't appear to be there. Lots of stuff, just not what people were asking for. A customer asked about different payment options, which lead to some discussion between him and a staff member. After about fifteen minutes I finally got served (they were busy), and I asked for a specific sound card (their web site said they had one in stock, and I had the flyer in front of me) and his response was "I can't find it." I asked if they were out of stock, and he repeated, "No, it's in stock, I just can't find it." Well, I asked, do you have any PCI sound cards that work under Windows XP? Wordlessly, he handed me a small box containing a sound card. Reading the fine print, I saw that it was for Windows 95/98/2000/ME. Not Windows XP. I pointed that out, and he just shrugged. So that was the end of that retail experience. Next I went down College and hit A Plus Software[3], spending about five minutes scouring the walls, looking for any kind of sound card, while one staff member served a customer and another yakked with what seemed to be either a friend or a long time customer. There were no sound cards on display, so I asked the cashier -- at least he couldn't ignore me -- and found out that they didn't have the inexpensive card I was looking for. So I ended up back at Sonnam where there were two staff members behind the counter, both busy with customers. I took a good gander around the store and finally found the sound cards offered, and pretty soon had a staff member ask me what I was looking for. I told him and he immediately pulled out a $15 sound card, with installation CD, and explained the drivers were for Windows 98/2000/ME, but weren't needed for Windows XP. Plug and Play. I bought it, got home, plugged it in, set is as the default sound card and it just worked. So .. I think the next time I go looking for computer parts, I'm going to go straight to Sonnam. Does anyone else have stories about shopping at Spadina/College? Is my experience unusual? -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb 1. http://www.sonnam.com/ 2. http://www.hardwaredirect.ca/ 3. http://www.apluscomputers.ca/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 15:58:42 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 10:58:42 -0500 Subject: Recent Spadina/College retail experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070103155842.GB21674@watson-wilson.ca> When I first installed Linux at home, back in the days of kernel 2.2, I had to be very specific about what hardware was installed. I think the same is true today. When I buy from a vendor my requirements are very specific and I do not accept alternatives. I don't shop in the College and Spadina corridor very often. I would not expect good service at such cut-rate establishments. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 11 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 16:11:42 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 11:11:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Recent Spadina/College retail experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <591896.49013.qm@web88213.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Alex Beamish wrote: [snip: stories of bad customer serice] > Does anyone else have stories about shopping at > Spadina/College? Is my > experience unusual? Your experiences are not unusual, the area is basicly a zoo. Yes, I do shop there, as I know there are bargins to be had on hardware. But I know/expect that the sales staff are full of @#$% and that with 1st rate prices comes 4th rate service. This is a trade-off I can live with, but I know this is not the way for everyone. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 16:30:36 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 16:30:36 +0000 Subject: (OT) Canadian FLOSS projects? In-Reply-To: <200701030101.23560.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200701030101.23560.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: On 1/3/07, Marc Lijour wrote: > does somebody know what are the Canadian FLOSS projects? There are plenty of Canadians that work on OSS projects... Few OSS projects are characteristically "nationalistic" aside from those that relate to specific language support. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 16:23:33 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 11:23:33 -0500 Subject: a regular supply of perfectly compatible pcmcia cards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200701031123.34072.mervc@eol.ca> On Wednesday 03 January 2007 07:47, David J Patrick wrote: > Hi LUG ! > I want to stock perfectly compatible 802.11 and hardwire ethernet PCMCIA > cards, and sell (and use) them at the caffe. > I put these questions to you > > 1) what's the best (100% compatible + good price) PCMCIA 802.11 b/g card ? > Well I have DLink and Linksys cards which worked ok in my Windoze Laptop but for convenience I now use a USB unit. Works with Win, Linux and probably anything else. It goes from desktop to laptop to ?? as required. Mechanically much superior to pcmcia, I feel. Merv -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 16:36:55 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 11:36:55 -0500 Subject: Recent Spadina/College retail experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <459BDBA7.1030900@rogers.com> Alex Beamish wrote: > Hi TLUG, > > I upgraded my wife's computer from Windows 98 to Windows XP for > Christmas, with the unexpected side effect that the motherboard audio > stopped working (CMI something or other -- it doesn't matter now). > After flailing around and trying to fix it, I decided to visit > Spadina/College for a new PCI sound card card. > But does the card support Linux??? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 17:01:50 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 12:01:50 -0500 Subject: MythTV - Frontend Message-ID: <200701031201.50367.mervc@eol.ca> I am now ready for Step 2. I have a Frontend and Backend running on a computer courtesy of MythDora. I got that going when KnoppMyth baffled me. Not that it takes much. Anyway I have this computer over in a corner of the basement and thought it might be nice to have TV available here. So all I need is a Frontend I gather. So far I haven't found the Deb's for mythtv which I gather are around somewhere. I did DL a Mythtv ver 20a and will compile it if necessary but since I only need the one module that seems a big job. I looked at LinPVR but that seems technically unfeasable and overkill. I wonder if I really need to load a full distro just to get a Frontend. Can't I just install the one part of Mythtv and have it logon to my existing backend server? I am not sure if I need much disk space on a Frontend client, doesn't the backend handle all the recordings from all clients? So much stuff is unclear. I now have 2 PVR-150's in my Backend, so that should handle 2 clients I think. Do I need a PVR for each client? I read on a mailing list somewhere of one user who had the equivalent of 5 PVR-150's in his machine. Thanks to any who have the time to answer these questions. Happy, happy -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Linux Etch Desktop: KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.2.3 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 17:14:10 2007 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 12:14:10 -0500 Subject: Recent Spadina/College retail experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <61e9e2b10701030914j3addd1f4oa1799cce6445ccbb@mail.gmail.com> On 1/3/07, Alex Beamish wrote: > Does anyone else have stories about shopping at Spadina/College? Is my > experience unusual? I took advantage of some Boxing Day sales to put together a new Linux box, and I found the staff at Filtech on Spadina - http://www.filtechcomputer.com - very nice and helpful. Competitive pricing as well. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 17:20:57 2007 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 12:20:57 -0500 Subject: MythTV - Frontend In-Reply-To: <200701031201.50367.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701031201.50367.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4386c5b20701030920w429ef2cer1a624fad11a3daca@mail.gmail.com> Hi Merv, I recently installed a Myth frontend/backend on a fresh box using the latest Ubuntu. This page includes a set of documentation for installing Myth 0.20 in a variety of situations -- including yours: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV_Edgy#head-5a1939ba2139f4520b40ea11412f5a5315a8e2ea I found it very useful, and easy to follow. Regarding your assumptions about the number of tuner cards, it's not entirely accurate. Each tuner card allows you to record a single stream at a time. With two, you can record on one channel, and watch on another. Or in your case, you could watch separate channels on two frontends. Or using one frontend you can record and watch separate channels, but a second frontend would be stuck watching the same thing. It's about resource allocation, if you get my drift. :-) Good luck! Aaron. On 1/3/07, Merv Curley wrote: > I am now ready for Step 2. I have a Frontend and Backend running on a > computer courtesy of MythDora. I got that going when KnoppMyth baffled me. > Not that it takes much. > > Anyway I have this computer over in a corner of the basement and thought it > might be nice to have TV available here. So all I need is a Frontend I > gather. So far I haven't found the Deb's for mythtv which I gather are around > somewhere. I did DL a Mythtv ver 20a and will compile it if necessary but > since I only need the one module that seems a big job. > > I looked at LinPVR but that seems technically unfeasable and overkill. I > wonder if I really need to load a full distro just to get a Frontend. Can't I > just install the one part of Mythtv and have it logon to my existing backend > server? > > I am not sure if I need much disk space on a Frontend client, doesn't the > backend handle all the recordings from all clients? So much stuff is > unclear. I now have 2 PVR-150's in my Backend, so that should handle 2 > clients I think. Do I need a PVR for each client? I read on a mailing list > somewhere of one user who had the equivalent of 5 PVR-150's in his machine. > > Thanks to any who have the time to answer these questions. > > Happy, happy > > > -- > Merv Curley > Toronto, Ont. Can > > Debian Linux Etch > Desktop: KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.2.3 > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 17:56:33 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 12:56:33 -0500 Subject: Recent Spadina/College retail experience In-Reply-To: <20070103155842.GB21674-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070103155842.GB21674@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <459BEE51.2030007@telly.org> Neil Watson wrote: > When I first installed Linux at home, back in the days of kernel 2.2, > I had to be very specific about what hardware was installed. I think > the > same is true today. When I buy from a vendor my requirements are > very specific and I do not accept alternatives. My experience is that clones are OK once an interface has been reasonably standardized. It used to be there were 20 different vendors of sound cards, each with its own interface. Now there are far fewer standards, and sometimes the generic standards-meeting cards can be better supported than "name brand" cards that try to extend the standard. > I don't shop in the College and Spadina corridor very often. I would > not expect good service at such cut-rate establishments. Ditto. Most of what I want can be found inexpensively enough at Canada Computer at Yonge & Sheppard, TigerDirect, or a store whose name escapes me on the north side of Sheppard just west of Allen Road. If I really want the clone-parts experience, these days I would go to Pacific Mall, which IIRC has more hole-in-the-wall PC parts places than College & Spadina while boasting IMO the world's finest food court. At the other end of the scale is CompuSmart at Mavis and Matheson in Mississauga (the net indicates they also have stores in Scarborough and at 151 Yonge). While sporting a smaller version of the BestBuy tech look&feel, they also have a dedicated whitebox/DIY section, with reasonably knowledgeable and helpful staff who (more often than not, at least when I've gone) are Linux-clueful. Their prices are a few dollars more than the Spadina & College chaos and they have fewer off-brands. But the experience can be much better on your nerves if PC hardware is not your obsession. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 18:37:19 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 13:37:19 -0500 Subject: a regular supply of perfectly compatible pcmcia cards In-Reply-To: <200701031123.34072.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701031123.34072.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <459BF7DF.9060006@rogers.com> Merv Curley wrote: > On Wednesday 03 January 2007 07:47, David J Patrick wrote: > >> Hi LUG ! >> I want to stock perfectly compatible 802.11 and hardwire ethernet PCMCIA >> cards, and sell (and use) them at the caffe. >> I put these questions to you >> >> 1) what's the best (100% compatible + good price) PCMCIA 802.11 b/g card ? >> >> > Well I have DLink and Linksys cards which worked ok in my Windoze Laptop but > for convenience I now use a USB unit. Works with Win, Linux and probably > anything else. It goes from desktop to laptop to ?? as required. > Mechanically much superior to pcmcia, I feel. > However, many laptops have only USB 1, which is barely adaquate for 802.11b and insufficient for 802.11a or g. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zhunt-KdxWn004MjY at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 19:14:51 2007 From: zhunt-KdxWn004MjY at public.gmane.org (Zoltan (ZEE4)) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 14:14:51 -0500 Subject: Recent Spadina/College retail experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <459C00AB.20503@zee4.com> Alex Beamish wrote: > Hi TLUG, > ... > > Does anyone else have stories about shopping at Spadina/College? Is my > experience unusual? > > -- > Alex Beamish > Toronto, Ontario > aka talexb > > 1. http://www.sonnam.com/ > 2. http://www.hardwaredirect.ca/ > 3. http://www.apluscomputers.ca/ > I've bought a few items over the past two years, personally I'd avoid Factory Direct - slow service, seems to sell a lot of refurbished stuff (they sell everything from computers to garden lights). The place I bought my last computer closed about 4 weeks after I bought it- good thing it still works as well as when I bought it, but then again, it's all off the shelf parts, so I don't expect too many problems. The best thing about the area is there are literally 10 stores in 10 minutes walking distance so you can walk down one side then the other comparing prices, that's what I've done last time I've bought computers (desktop and laptop). BTW: there's a new place, just opened in the last month, www.jumbocomputers.ca near Kensington Market (Augusta St.?) and College that looks nice - looks like part of the store is is going to be an Internet cafe - with bubble tea too :) Zoltan www.yyztech.ca - reviews, cybercafes, news -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 19:29:22 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:28:22 +1859 Subject: Help turning old hardware into a firewall In-Reply-To: <459AE46B.4090203-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420701021253o2c0d6107rc676d0ab0c27a6fd@mail.gmail.com> <459AE46B.4090203@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420701031129r53ce9469v649497ec2db71317@mail.gmail.com> > If you want a couple of old NICs, I can bring them to the next meeting > on January 9. > If you have an old hard drive that you want to trade, that'll be great. > If you don't, you still can have the NICs :-) . > Just tell me if you want them, that way I'll know. Thank you for the offer, Meng. Hugh's link led me to learn several new things: - I already have the latest BIOS - a newer BIOS, if it were available, probably couldn't make the motherboard PCI 2.2 compatible--it appears to be a function of the chipset, which in my case is Intel's 440LX So, I'd like to trade with you. Perhaps you could reply to me off-list with some more details about what you're looking for? I have a 4GB drive from about 1997 that I could easily part with, and there might be something else lying around, if that's not what you're looking for. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 19:46:11 2007 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 14:46:11 -0500 Subject: web based shell access without x Message-ID: <459C0803.5060702@knet.ca> I am often at remote locations around town trying to login to my server. For security reasons, usually I do not have access to a shell to start with. I setup my last server with X windows, VNC, portforwarding etc. So I could login to my server via any internet web browser and have shell access to my home server. This time I am not running X. Less memory and diskspace and a fair bit more secure. Therefore I do not believe vnc will work. I think vnc requires X. (get the familiar display GTK+ error upon startup) Therefore I am trying to get the same functionality as before. Login from any web browser and get ssh shell access to my home server. This time without using X (or having a shell access to start from) I have found MindTerm. and javassh. (Toronto Public Library is blocking some java outbound ports.) Maybe I can get javassh to use a port TPL is not blocking. Are there other solutions to this TLUG users have used? TIA from Teddy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 19:51:48 2007 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 14:51:48 -0500 Subject: web based shell access without x In-Reply-To: <459C0803.5060702-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <459C0803.5060702@knet.ca> Message-ID: <459C0954.9040508@knet.ca> Forgot to mention that I am getting by on webmin for now. Maybe I can use a ssh redirect portforward ? Teddy David Mills wrote: > > I am often at remote locations around town trying to login to my server. > For security reasons, usually I do not have access to a shell to start > with. > I setup my last server with X windows, VNC, portforwarding etc. > So I could login to my server via any internet web browser and have > shell access to my home server. > > This time I am not running X. > Less memory and diskspace and a fair bit more secure. > Therefore I do not believe vnc will work. I think vnc requires X. (get > the familiar display GTK+ error upon startup) > > Therefore I am trying to get the same functionality as before. > Login from any web browser and get ssh shell access to my home server. > This time without using X (or having a shell access to start from) > > I have found MindTerm. and javassh. (Toronto Public Library is > blocking some java outbound ports.) > Maybe I can get javassh to use a port TPL is not blocking. > > Are there other solutions to this TLUG users have used? > > TIA from Teddy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 19:55:26 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 14:55:26 -0500 Subject: Recent Spadina/College retail experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070103195526.GE3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 10:38:25AM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote: > Hi TLUG, > > I upgraded my wife's computer from Windows 98 to Windows XP for Christmas, > with the unexpected side effect that the motherboard audio stopped working > (CMI something or other -- it doesn't matter now). After flailing around and > trying to fix it, I decided to visit Spadina/College for a new PCI sound > card card. > > I usually patronize Sonnam[1], but their web site suggested that they were > out of stock of the $40 PCI sound card that I wanted, and Hardware Direct[2] > seemed to have a suitable card for $20. So, I love a bargain, and headed to > Hardware Direct. > > Well, the place was crowded as they were still dealing with their extended > Boxing Day clearance, so I sidled up to the counter and waited for a staff > person to help me out. While I waited, and waited, and waited, I observed > that three of the four guys behind the counter were spending a lot of time > searching through the counter displays and shelving units for stock that > didn't appear to be there. Lots of stuff, just not what people were asking > for. A customer asked about different payment options, which lead to some > discussion between him and a staff member. > > After about fifteen minutes I finally got served (they were busy), and I > asked for a specific sound card (their web site said they had one in stock, > and I had the flyer in front of me) and his response was "I can't find it." > I asked if they were out of stock, and he repeated, "No, it's in stock, I > just can't find it." > > Well, I asked, do you have any PCI sound cards that work under Windows XP? > Wordlessly, he handed me a small box containing a sound card. Reading the > fine print, I saw that it was for Windows 95/98/2000/ME. Not Windows XP. I > pointed that out, and he just shrugged. So that was the end of that retail > experience. > > Next I went down College and hit A Plus Software[3], spending about five > minutes scouring the walls, looking for any kind of sound card, while one > staff member served a customer and another yakked with what seemed to be > either a friend or a long time customer. There were no sound cards on > display, so I asked the cashier -- at least he couldn't ignore me -- and > found out that they didn't have the inexpensive card I was looking for. > > So I ended up back at Sonnam where there were two staff members behind the > counter, both busy with customers. I took a good gander around the store and > finally found the sound cards offered, and pretty soon had a staff member > ask me what I was looking for. I told him and he immediately pulled out a > $15 sound card, with installation CD, and explained the drivers were for > Windows 98/2000/ME, but weren't needed for Windows XP. Plug and Play. I > bought it, got home, plugged it in, set is as the default sound card and it > just worked. > > So .. I think the next time I go looking for computer parts, I'm going to go > straight to Sonnam. > > Does anyone else have stories about shopping at Spadina/College? Is my > experience unusual? I almost never go to that area. I do all my shopping at logic computer house or canada computers. I have been moving more and more to canada computers over tha last few months, especially since they now seem to have the lowest price of the two and more of the products I want. I don't know anywhere else I would bother to go. As for sound cards, well any sb live or audigy card would be a decent choice, and most stores should have an oem version of one of those for not too much money. No chance that there was a driver for the cmi chip/card for XP? Not that cmi had any insentive to write a driver for an old chip. They want you to buy a new one of course. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 20:00:55 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 15:00:55 -0500 Subject: MythTV - Frontend In-Reply-To: <200701031201.50367.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701031201.50367.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20070103200055.GF3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 12:01:50PM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > I am now ready for Step 2. I have a Frontend and Backend running on a > computer courtesy of MythDora. I got that going when KnoppMyth baffled me. > Not that it takes much. > > Anyway I have this computer over in a corner of the basement and thought it > might be nice to have TV available here. So all I need is a Frontend I > gather. So far I haven't found the Deb's for mythtv which I gather are around > somewhere. I did DL a Mythtv ver 20a and will compile it if necessary but > since I only need the one module that seems a big job. deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org sid main (change sid to whichever version you use). Has mplayer, mythtv, etc. It is what I use for my debian mythtv system. > I looked at LinPVR but that seems technically unfeasable and overkill. I > wonder if I really need to load a full distro just to get a Frontend. Can't I > just install the one part of Mythtv and have it logon to my existing backend > server? Yes you can. The front end and back end are seperate packages. You do need to know the mysql password and port numbers and IP of the backend machine in order to access it. > I am not sure if I need much disk space on a Frontend client, doesn't the > backend handle all the recordings from all clients? So much stuff is > unclear. I now have 2 PVR-150's in my Backend, so that should handle 2 > clients I think. Do I need a PVR for each client? I read on a mailing list > somewhere of one user who had the equivalent of 5 PVR-150's in his machine. Shouldn't take very much space. You can have as many tuners in one backend as you want, and I believe you can even have multiple backends talk to each other and share scheduling and such. > Thanks to any who have the time to answer these questions. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 20:01:37 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 15:01:37 -0500 Subject: web based shell access without x In-Reply-To: <459C0803.5060702-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <459C0803.5060702@knet.ca> Message-ID: <20070103200137.GA18830@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 02:46:11PM -0500, Teddy David Mills wrote: >I have found MindTerm. and javassh. (Toronto Public Library is blocking >some java outbound ports.) >Maybe I can get javassh to use a port TPL is not blocking. > >Are there other solutions to this TLUG users have used? I have not found a web-based SSH front end that I like, so I have PuTTY on a USB key. I have not found a place where I cannot put in the USB key and run PuTTY from there, and that tends to work for me. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 20:03:31 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 15:03:31 -0500 Subject: web based shell access without x In-Reply-To: <20070103200137.GA18830-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <459C0803.5060702@knet.ca> <20070103200137.GA18830@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070103200331.GB18830@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 03:01:37PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >I have not found a web-based SSH front end that I like, so I have PuTTY >on a USB key. I have not found a place where I cannot put in the USB >key and run PuTTY from there, and that tends to work for me. I neglect to mention that my sshd listens on port 443, which, as it belongs to https, is open on any firewall I've seen. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 20:22:17 2007 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 15:22:17 -0500 Subject: Recent Spadina/College retail experience In-Reply-To: <459C00AB.20503-KdxWn004MjY@public.gmane.org> References: <459C00AB.20503@zee4.com> Message-ID: <459C1079.3050308@knet.ca> Shopping at College/Spadina is the shopping equivalent of using Linux. 1. You should know what you want and why. (otherwise you'll be dependant on others; google is your friend!) 2. technical support on college/spadina can actually be helpful and useful. 3. separate the useful from the useless.ie.be wary of any enterprise level advice you get on college&spadina. 5. As for support, the only support I expect is warranty replacement. (which is black and white 99.99% of the time) 6. try to patron 3 stores or less for the expensive items. This way they should remember you. 7. i dont know if its a look or an attitude, but salesreps can spot sheep and marks. 8. i dont have the idea that it is a confrontational or zero sum game. It is a social/shop talk time. therefore you dont have religious flame wars. its a collaboration of ideas. 9. and my last tibit of advice? Keep walking right past Computer Systems Center. i dont know where im going with this, but you get the idea.... /tm Zoltan (ZEE4) wrote: > Alex Beamish wrote: >> Hi TLUG, >> ... >> >> Does anyone else have stories about shopping at Spadina/College? Is >> my experience unusual? >> >> -- >> Alex Beamish >> Toronto, Ontario >> aka talexb >> >> 1. http://www.sonnam.com/ >> 2. http://www.hardwaredirect.ca/ >> 3. http://www.apluscomputers.ca/ >> > I've bought a few items over the past two years, personally I'd avoid > Factory Direct - slow service, seems to sell a lot of refurbished > stuff (they sell everything from computers to garden lights). The > place I bought my last computer closed about 4 weeks after I bought > it- good thing it still works as well as when I bought it, but then > again, it's all off the shelf parts, so I don't expect too many > problems. The best thing about the area is there are literally 10 > stores in 10 minutes walking distance so you can walk down one side > then the other comparing prices, that's what I've done last time I've > bought computers (desktop and laptop). > > BTW: there's a new place, just opened in the last month, > www.jumbocomputers.ca near Kensington Market (Augusta St.?) and > College that looks nice - looks like part of the store is is going to > be an Internet cafe - with bubble tea too :) > > Zoltan > www.yyztech.ca - reviews, cybercafes, news > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 20:29:35 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 15:29:35 -0500 Subject: Help turning old hardware into a firewall In-Reply-To: <7ac602420701021253o2c0d6107rc676d0ab0c27a6fd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420701021253o2c0d6107rc676d0ab0c27a6fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070103202935.GG3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 03:52:22PM +1859, Ian Petersen wrote: > Hello all, > > I have an old HP Pavilion 8260 that I'd like to turn into a Smoothwall > firewall for my home network but I'm having trouble with the new > network cards that I bought for the internal and DMZ interfaces. I > hope someone here can offer some suggestions. > > The motherboard is a KL97-XV. I have an old 10/100 network card based > on the Realtek 8139 chipset and it works fine with the 8139too module. > I went out and bought two D-Link DGE-530T 10/100/1000 network cards > assuming they would work fine. Googling suggests they would function > using the skge module, but it appears my motherboard is too old > because lspci doesn't even list the devices. On the D-Link box, it > says I need a 32-bit PCI bus that is "Specification 2.2 Compliant". > Running dmesg on the machine lists, amongst lots of other things: > > ... > ACPI: Unable to locate RSDP > ... > Local APIC not detected. Using dummy APIC emulation. > ... > PCI: PCI BIOS revision 2.10 entry at 0xfd9c3, last bus=1 <---- is > this 2.10 relevant? I don't believe PCI 2.2 has a new software interface, so probably not. I suspect it is just a "This is compatible with the PCI 2.1 BIOS interface standard". > Setting up standard PCI resources > ... > PCI: Probing PCI hardware > PCI: Probing PCI hardware (bus 00) > PCI quirk: region 8000-803f claimed by PIIX4 ACPI > PCI quirk: region 2180-218f claimed by PIIX4 SMB > Boot video device is 0000:00:0e.0 > PCI: Using IRQ router PIIX/ICH [8086/7110] at 0000:00:07.0 > PCI: Bridge: 0000:00:01.0 > IO window: disabled. > MEM window: disabled. > PREFETCH window: disabled. > > > The output from lspci is > > livecd ~ # lspci > 00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 440LX/EX - 82443LX/EX Host > bridge (rev 03) > 00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 440LX/EX - 82443LX/EX AGP bridge (rev > 03) > 00:07.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ISA (rev 01) > 00:07.1 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 IDE (rev 01) > 00:07.2 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 USB (rev 01) > 00:07.3 Bridge: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ACPI (rev 01) > 00:0b.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. > RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ (rev 10) > 00:0e.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc 264VT [Mach64 > VT] (rev 40) > livecd ~ # lspci -x -t > -[0000:00]-+-00.0 > +-01.0-[0000:01]-- > +-07.0 > +-07.1 > +-07.2 > +-07.3 > +-0b.0 > \-0e.0 > > I've never had such trouble with hardware before, so I'm really not > sure what to do next. I found a couple of forum pages suggesting that > a BIOS upgrade sometimes fixes problems similar to mine, but I have no > clue where to find such an upgrade. (Googling has turned up little.) > Is it possible that the PCI hardware on the motherboard would support > PCI spec 2.2 if it had the appropriate BIOS? Or should I just return > the cards and buy some 10/100 cards, instead? (I'd rather not return > the cards because I bought them from TigerDirect, and I expect I'll > have to pay a restocking fee if I return them....) A bios upgrade won't change the version of PCI (that is a hardware thing). It could fix bios bugs however. You could try the -M option for lspci which is supposed to ignore misconfigured bridges and go through a very thorough bus scan looking for devices. One _major_ difference between pci 2.1 and 2.2 is that PCI 2.2 MUST provide 3.3V, and PCI 2.1 may provide 3.3V. If the card requires PCI 2.2 it may be that it requries a 3.3V rail on the PCI connector, which it is quite likely something as old as a 440LX machine doesn't have. Without that power rail the chip on the card might not even power on. After all many modern chips use 3.3V for their processing cores, even if they are using 5V signalling. If this is the case, then those cards will never work on that system it would seem. I wonder if the version of the card is what determines the need for PCI2.2 since I have found some indications that some DGE-530T cards only need PCI2.1, but dlink is one of those companies that likes changing card designs without changing model numbers so you never know what you are buying. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 20:30:49 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 15:30:49 -0500 Subject: Adding Hard Drives and IRQ Conflicts In-Reply-To: <459AC749.8000601-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <459AC749.8000601@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070103203049.GH3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 03:57:45PM -0500, John McGregor wrote: > IRQ 9 is usually a redirect to IRQ 10 - 15, so unless you are > experiencing a significant problem, you shouldn't be concerned. 9 was a replacement for IRQ 2 on the ISA bus (since 2 was changed to be the interrupt for the second IRQ controller). IRQ 8 to 15 are on the second controller, 0 to 7 on the first one with the second connected to the first on IRQ 2. So you have 15 IRQs total. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 20:29:19 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 15:29:19 -0500 Subject: MythTV - Frontend In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20701030920w429ef2cer1a624fad11a3daca-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200701031201.50367.mervc@eol.ca> <4386c5b20701030920w429ef2cer1a624fad11a3daca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701031529.19826.mervc@eol.ca> On Wednesday 03 January 2007 12:20, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi Merv, > I recently installed a Myth frontend/backend on a fresh box using the > latest Ubuntu. This page includes a set of documentation for > installing Myth 0.20 in a variety of situations -- including yours: > > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV_Edgy#head-5a1939ba2139f4520b40ea11 >412f5a5315a8e2ea > > I found it very useful, and easy to follow. > Thanks Aaron and Len, geez you didn't even give Colin a chance. So off I go to put my new knowledge to the test. And from what I read Len, you can have slave backends with one Master bvackend. No idea how to do it, and no reason to, in this 2 person household. Cheerio -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Linux Etch Desktop: KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.2.3 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 20:38:22 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 15:38:22 -0500 Subject: Recent Spadina/College retail experience In-Reply-To: <459C1079.3050308-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <459C00AB.20503@zee4.com> <459C1079.3050308@knet.ca> Message-ID: <20070103203822.GI3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 03:22:17PM -0500, Teddy David Mills wrote: > Shopping at College/Spadina is the shopping equivalent of using Linux. > > 1. You should know what you want and why. (otherwise you'll be dependant > on others; google is your friend!) > 2. technical support on college/spadina can actually be helpful and useful. > 3. separate the useful from the useless.ie.be wary of any enterprise > level advice you get on college&spadina. > 5. As for support, the only support I expect is warranty replacement. > (which is black and white 99.99% of the time) > 6. try to patron 3 stores or less for the expensive items. This way they > should remember you. > 7. i dont know if its a look or an attitude, but salesreps can spot > sheep and marks. I have no idea other than I never have a problem shopping at the places that look like a computer warehouse got hit by a tornado. :) > 8. i dont have the idea that it is a confrontational or zero sum game. > It is a social/shop talk time. therefore you dont have religious flame > wars. its a collaboration of ideas. I do shopping by figuring out what I want, who has it at the best price, going there and asking for it. I may occationally ask if they have any experience with a certain part if I am deciding between a couple of choices, and occationally if they have any experience with the compatibility of a certain part with a certain other part. Mostly I know what I want though. I don't expect them to spend time to give me support, I don't believe they have time or enough margins for that. If people don't know what they want or need, they need to go to a place that caters to that rather than high volume sales at low margins. They are not likely to get much patience from any of the DIY stores. I personally like being able to drive to canada computers, walk in, find the thing I want, pick it up, go to the cash, pay for it, and leave all in about 2 to 5 minutes. Sometimes I may have to ask someone to get the thing for me if it is one of the majority of things that are locked up in a cabinet or out in the back storage. I probably wouldn't recommend to most people to do computer shopping that way (although I probably wouldn't recommend computer shopping of any kind to most of the same people, since they are even more likely to be ripped off by a clueless sales drone at futureshop or MDG). > 9. and my last tibit of advice? Keep walking right past Computer Systems > Center. Never seen that one. :) > i dont know where im going with this, but you get the idea.... -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 20:39:09 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 15:39:09 -0500 Subject: MythTV - Frontend In-Reply-To: <200701031529.19826.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701031201.50367.mervc@eol.ca> <4386c5b20701030920w429ef2cer1a624fad11a3daca@mail.gmail.com> <200701031529.19826.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20070103203909.GJ3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 03:29:19PM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > Thanks Aaron and Len, geez you didn't even give Colin a chance. > > So off I go to put my new knowledge to the test. > > And from what I read Len, you can have slave backends with one Master > bvackend. No idea how to do it, and no reason to, in this 2 person household. You can fit a lot of PVR 500s in one backend before running out of PCI slots. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 21:39:43 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 16:39:43 -0500 Subject: Best tools for making a spider? Message-ID: <459C229F.20605@telly.org> This isn't meant to start a flamewar, honestly. I'm just wondering if there are some languages that are either optimized or otherwise more suitable than others for the specific task of writing a specialized web spider. So far the people I've spoken to say this is a perfect task for Ruby, but I don't know it at all. There is no previous baggage on this particular project so we can choose any tool we want -- but once chosen I'd like to stay with it. Having some existing open source templates or existing code to build upon is always nice too. I'm not going to be the programmer (we do want working code, after all :-) ) but I do have some say in the tech to be used. Any suggestions or pointers of where to explore this particular question are appreciated. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zhunt-KdxWn004MjY at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 21:52:52 2007 From: zhunt-KdxWn004MjY at public.gmane.org (Zoltan (ZEE4)) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 16:52:52 -0500 Subject: Best tools for making a spider? In-Reply-To: <459C229F.20605-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <459C229F.20605@telly.org> Message-ID: <459C25B4.5000200@zee4.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > This isn't meant to start a flamewar, honestly. > > I'm just wondering if there are some languages that are either > optimized or otherwise more suitable than others for the specific task > of writing a specialized web spider. > > So far the people I've spoken to say this is a perfect task for Ruby, > but I don't know it at all. There is no previous baggage on this > particular project so we can choose any tool we want -- but once > chosen I'd like to stay with it. Having some existing open source > templates or existing code to build upon is always nice too. > > I'm not going to be the programmer (we do want working code, after all > :-) ) but I do have some say in the tech to be used. Any suggestions > or pointers of where to explore this particular question are appreciated. > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > Googling "php pear spider" or "php spider" turns up a bunch of results. I'd take a look at some of these projects for ideas. Also, the reason I included "pear" in the search is that the pear library (pear.php.net) has a lot of pre-written code for all kinds of things, including networking. Zoltan www.yyztech.ca - reviews. news. cybercafes. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 22:16:10 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:16:10 -0500 Subject: Best tools for making a spider? In-Reply-To: <459C229F.20605-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <459C229F.20605@telly.org> Message-ID: On 1/3/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > This isn't meant to start a flamewar, honestly. > > I'm just wondering if there are some languages that are either optimized > or otherwise more suitable than others for the specific task of writing > a specialized web spider. > > So far the people I've spoken to say this is a perfect task for Ruby, > but I don't know it at all. There is no previous baggage on this > particular project so we can choose any tool we want -- but once chosen > I'd like to stay with it. Having some existing open source templates or > existing code to build upon is always nice too. > > I'm not going to be the programmer (we do want working code, after all > :-) ) but I do have some say in the tech to be used. Any suggestions or > pointers of where to explore this particular question are appreciated. I would expect you could use Andy Lester's WWW::Mechanize for spidering. See http://search.cpan.org/~petdance/WWW-Mechanize-1.20/lib/WWW/Mechanize.pm for lots more information. That page also links to O'Reilly's *Spidering Hacks* http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/spiderhks/ which would probably be a useful resource no matter what language platform you choose. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 22:37:02 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 17:37:02 -0500 Subject: Best tools for making a spider? In-Reply-To: References: <459C229F.20605@telly.org> Message-ID: <459C300E.4040900@alteeve.com> Alex Beamish wrote: > On 1/3/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> >> This isn't meant to start a flamewar, honestly. >> >> I'm just wondering if there are some languages that are either optimized >> or otherwise more suitable than others for the specific task of writing >> a specialized web spider. >> >> So far the people I've spoken to say this is a perfect task for Ruby, >> but I don't know it at all. There is no previous baggage on this >> particular project so we can choose any tool we want -- but once chosen >> I'd like to stay with it. Having some existing open source templates or >> existing code to build upon is always nice too. >> >> I'm not going to be the programmer (we do want working code, after all >> :-) ) but I do have some say in the tech to be used. Any suggestions or >> pointers of where to explore this particular question are appreciated. > > > I would expect you could use Andy Lester's WWW::Mechanize for spidering. > See > > http://search.cpan.org/~petdance/WWW-Mechanize-1.20/lib/WWW/Mechanize.pm > > for lots more information. That page also links to O'Reilly's *Spidering > Hacks* > > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/spiderhks/ > > which would probably be a useful resource no matter what language platform > you choose. > I'd throw a vote in for perl, too. *Lots* of modules to choose from and daeling with text is perl's forte. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 22:40:43 2007 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 17:40:43 -0500 Subject: Changed to fixed IP on Linus box and broke Windows Networking????? Help! In-Reply-To: <459C229F.20605-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <459C229F.20605@telly.org> Message-ID: <459C30EB.9090606@rogers.com> I have a Linux (Ubuntu) machine which is largely a server (apache, samba) and all was well when I had it set to dhcp. I want to access from outside, so I changed to fixed IP and now I cannot see it from XP machines, and the Linux box cannot see the XP machines? Pings work fine. Any and all ideas welcome! Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 22:52:32 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:52:32 -0500 Subject: OT: Birth of a new geek(ette)! In-Reply-To: <459BB7CC.1050003-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <459BB7CC.1050003@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0701031452s2a10a82bpb262ae7a9fd1dc6f@mail.gmail.com> On 1/3/07, Madison Kelly wrote: > Long-time TLUG'er Lance Squire and his wife Kim has there second baby > last night, Megan Squire at 9lbs 9ozs! > > Their first son, Logan coming up on three is already well on his way to > being an uber-geek of the future and I am sure his sister will follow in > her parent' proud footsteps. :) Congratulations to the Squire family! What a way to start a New Year! =) -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 22:56:22 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:56:22 -0500 Subject: Best tools for making a spider? In-Reply-To: <459C300E.4040900-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <459C229F.20605@telly.org> <459C300E.4040900@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0701031456q4742bd98vd2679f59567a29ad@mail.gmail.com> On 1/3/07, Madison Kelly wrote: > Alex Beamish wrote: > > On 1/3/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >> > >> This isn't meant to start a flamewar, honestly. > >> > >> I'm just wondering if there are some languages that are either optimized > >> or otherwise more suitable than others for the specific task of writing > >> a specialized web spider. > > I'd throw a vote in for perl, too. *Lots* of modules to choose from and > daeling with text is perl's forte. Having written a couple simple spiders, I'd agree - Perl has a long history in this regards and is both very capable and flexible. -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 23:01:34 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 18:00:34 +1859 Subject: Help turning old hardware into a firewall In-Reply-To: <20070103202935.GG3394-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420701021253o2c0d6107rc676d0ab0c27a6fd@mail.gmail.com> <20070103202935.GG3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420701031501nec67ec8g7194fc1fbbdef1a0@mail.gmail.com> > You could try the -M option for lspci which is supposed to ignore > misconfigured bridges and go through a very thorough bus scan looking > for devices. Well, I tried lspci -M and I didn't get any further. Thanks for the tip, though. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 23:16:22 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 18:16:22 -0500 Subject: Best tools for making a spider? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0701031456q4742bd98vd2679f59567a29ad-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <459C229F.20605@telly.org> <459C300E.4040900@alteeve.com> <99a6c38f0701031456q4742bd98vd2679f59567a29ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <180B7E7B-5811-44C1-B734-3CBF08FC1244@visibleassets.com> http://www.java-source.net/open-source/crawlers as well as lucene http://lucene.apache.org/ have a look at Nutch. It is a framework and uses lucene Dave On 3-Jan-07, at 5:56 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 1/3/07, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Alex Beamish wrote: >> > On 1/3/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> >> >> >> This isn't meant to start a flamewar, honestly. >> >> >> >> I'm just wondering if there are some languages that are either >> optimized >> >> or otherwise more suitable than others for the specific task of >> writing >> >> a specialized web spider. >> >> I'd throw a vote in for perl, too. *Lots* of modules to choose >> from and >> daeling with text is perl's forte. > > Having written a couple simple spiders, I'd agree - Perl has a long > history in this regards and is both very capable and flexible. > > -- > Scott Elcomb > http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ > http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ > http://psema4.googlepages.com/ > > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." > > - Benjamin Franklin > > '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting > on its shoes." > > - Mark Twain > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 3 23:59:48 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 18:59:48 -0500 Subject: Changed to fixed IP on Linus box and broke Windows Networking????? Help! In-Reply-To: <459C30EB.9090606-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <459C229F.20605@telly.org> <459C30EB.9090606@rogers.com> Message-ID: <459C4374.5010503@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > I have a Linux (Ubuntu) machine which is largely a server (apache, > samba) and all was well when I had it set to dhcp. > > I want to access from outside, so I changed to fixed IP and now I > cannot see it from XP machines, and the Linux box cannot see the XP > machines? > > Pings work fine. > > Any and all ideas welcome! > What are the IP address and subnet mask for each computer? Do you use the hosts files for mapping name to IP? If so, did you update them. At the command prompt in Windows enter "net view". What do you see. At the shell prompt in linux, try smbclient -L hostname. If that doesn't show anything, use the IP address in place of the hostname. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 00:10:06 2007 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 19:10:06 -0500 Subject: (OT) Canadian FLOSS projects? In-Reply-To: References: <200701030101.23560.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <200701031910.06634.marc@lijour.net> On Wednesday 03 January 2007 11:30, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 1/3/07, Marc Lijour wrote: > > does somebody know what are the Canadian FLOSS projects? > > There are plenty of Canadians that work on OSS projects... > > Few OSS projects are characteristically "nationalistic" aside from > those that relate to specific language support. This may be why this article struck me. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 00:09:54 2007 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 19:09:54 -0500 Subject: Changed to fixed IP on Linus box and broke Windows Networking????? Help! In-Reply-To: <459C4374.5010503-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <459C229F.20605@telly.org> <459C30EB.9090606@rogers.com> <459C4374.5010503@rogers.com> Message-ID: <459C45D2.1030004@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > Stephen wrote: > >> I have a Linux (Ubuntu) machine which is largely a server (apache, >> samba) and all was well when I had it set to dhcp. >> >> I want to access from outside, so I changed to fixed IP and now I >> cannot see it from XP machines, and the Linux box cannot see the XP >> machines? >> >> Pings work fine. >> >> Any and all ideas welcome! >> >> > > What are the IP address and subnet mask for each computer? > > Do you use the hosts files for mapping name to IP? If so, did you > update them. > > At the command prompt in Windows enter "net view". What do you see. > > At the shell prompt in linux, try smbclient -L hostname. If that > doesn't show anything, use the IP address in place of the hostname. > Found it. It was the samba.conf settings. When I installed it, the tool used the dynamic IP address at the time instead of eth0 in specifying the adaptor. Doh! All is well now after I fixed that. Thanks! Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 04:17:47 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 23:17:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: Recent Spadina/College retail experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A subject near and dear to my heart. I love bargains. All the advice has been good. I like going to Factory Direct to see what they have. But I don't trust it a lot: all the stuff is refurb, inexpensive, and dubious original quality. But there are worthwhile bargains. Just buy things from knowledge, not ignorance. (Example: I bought a bunch of Myth-friendly TV tuner cards at $30 each.) For parts, I've had good transactions with CTY, Canada Computers, Sonnam, Filtech, and others. As far as computers are concerned, I don't seem to build them myself any more. I find amazing bargains on prebuilt systems -- quieter and cheaper than the ones I build myself. Again, these bargains don't happen to my timetable, but they do happen. Off the shelf computers have gotten quite inexpensive in the last couple of years. Example: this week Future Shop was offering $150 off of online orders for clearance computers priced at $500 and up (or $150 Gift Cert for in-store purchases of clearance computers). Some people got Acer systems with Atlon 64 X2 3800+ for $400 and $450. FS revised the online price upward and is now out of stock: http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10079765&logon=&langid=EN# These store-bought systems are not perfect. Built-in video has no TV out or DVI. There are fewer PCI slots than I'd like. BIOS updates are rarer than for motherboards sold retail (so upgrading the CPU is less likely to work). Documentation isn't as complete. You get MS Windows whether you want it or not (but it appears to add little to the price). You don't get to choose the components so some may have no Linux support (my luck has been worse with notebooks). P.S. Is Jumbo Computers related to Jumbo Empanadas? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 04:27:39 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 23:27:39 -0500 Subject: Recent Spadina/College retail experience Message-ID: <459C3BEB.13098.9D40B8B@sciguy.vex.net> On 3 Jan 2007 at 11:11, Colin McGregor wrote: > --- Alex Beamish wrote: > [snip: stories of bad customer serice] > > > Does anyone else have stories about shopping at > > Spadina/College? Is my > > experience unusual? > > Your experiences are not unusual, the area is basicly > a zoo. Yes, I do shop there, as I know there are > bargins to be had on hardware. But I know/expect that > the sales staff are full of @#$% and that with 1st > rate prices comes 4th rate service. This is a > trade-off I can live with, but I know this is not the > way for everyone. > > Colin McGregor I agree. I wouldn't go there unless you know what you are looking for. I find unless you are talking to the manager, most of them don't know jack. But on the up-side, if a staffer doesn't know something they'll usually admit it, ask the manager, or surf to the manufacturer's website. If the hardware comes in a box, I'll read the box for any details I'm missing. Most of them don't know more than that. That being said, I have also enjoyed the bargains there, but it is a long drive these days, so I have been visiting there less often than before. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 07:25:36 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:25:36 +0300 Subject: Counting mail accounts on a system Message-ID: Hi, Lets say I need to need to know how many mail accounts exist on system, how would you do about it? I am thinking of counting directories under /var/spool/mail, but I am not sure if the directory exist after popping all mails. Counting accounts on the system would also not be accurate, since that would include ftp, http users, who just exist virtually. Any suggestion may be appreciated. Thanks William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 07:55:37 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 02:55:37 -0500 Subject: Counting mail accounts on a system In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99a6c38f0701032355m38de30advd7d2acfc18c4a266@mail.gmail.com> On 1/4/07, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Hi, > Lets say I need to need to know how many mail accounts exist on system, > how would you do about it? I am thinking of counting directories under > /var/spool/mail, but I am not sure if the directory exist after popping all > mails. Counting accounts on the system would also not be accurate, since > that would include ftp, http users, who just exist virtually. Any suggestion > may be appreciated. Not authoritative by any means (I'm not overly familiar with POP3), but if all of your mail users are IMAP users [have user accounts on a dedicated mail server (eg, UW-IMAP {using RHL xinetd defaults} and/or SHELL=/dev/false)] then any User ID within the range UID 500 to 500+n (where n=your number of users) should represent your User-Set. Under at least RHL (Red Hat Linux/Fedora Core/CentOS) based systems, this should work out as a nearly one-to-one correspondance with the entries in /var/spool/mail/ by username. With this type of setup, I usually count from 500 to 500+n and determine specific user names from either /etc/passwd or MySQL databases (on web servers via apache's modauth::mysql module). YMMV using this approach of course. Using SSL in this type of web environment is highly recommended. ;-) -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 08:01:46 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 03:01:46 -0500 Subject: Counting mail accounts on a system In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0701032355m38de30advd7d2acfc18c4a266-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0701032355m38de30advd7d2acfc18c4a266@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0701040001n25f8d4cdgbd8393b1189ff46e@mail.gmail.com> Ug. Fixing one's own message kinda suck as far as etiquette is concerned I suppose, but still it's sometimes necessary. On 1/4/07, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 1/4/07, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > > Hi, > > Lets say I need to need to know how many mail accounts exist on system, > > how would you do about it? I am thinking of counting directories under > > /var/spool/mail, but I am not sure if the directory exist after popping all > > mails. Counting accounts on the system would also not be accurate, since > > that would include ftp, http users, who just exist virtually. Any suggestion > > may be appreciated. > > Not authoritative by any means (I'm not overly familiar with POP3), > but if all of your mail users are IMAP users [have user accounts on a > dedicated mail server (eg, UW-IMAP {using RHL xinetd defaults} and/or > SHELL=/dev/false)] then any User ID within the range UID 500 to 500+n > (where n=your number of users) should represent your User-Set. SHELL=/dev/false should've read /bin/false. -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 13:41:39 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 08:41:39 -0500 Subject: webcam/mic recommendations? Message-ID: <1167918099.5646.83.camel@localhost> Hi, I am setting up skype and or a replacement on my laptop, whose internal mic doesn't work with my ubuntu setup. So I'm wondering whether anyone can recommend a webcam with mike that works with skype. ANd while I'm at it, does anyone know whether the Free SIP solutions interacts with the skype network? I'm really only using skype to communicate with my family, none of whom use gnu/linux (yet). thanks! matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 14:12:00 2007 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 09:12:00 -0500 Subject: webcam/mic recommendations? In-Reply-To: <1167918099.5646.83.camel@localhost> References: <1167918099.5646.83.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <459D0B30.9070402@rogers.com> Matt Price wrote: > Hi, > > I am setting up skype and or a replacement on my laptop, whose internal > mic doesn't work with my ubuntu setup. So I'm wondering whether anyone > can recommend a webcam with mike that works with skype. ANd while I'm > at it, does anyone know whether the Free SIP solutions interacts with > the skype network? I'm really only using skype to communicate with my > family, none of whom use gnu/linux (yet). > Hi Matt Skype depends on the OS to do sound. So any mike and headset combo that works with Ubuntu will work with Skype, and that should be all of them. Audio is pretty standard. Can't help with the webcam part. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 14:10:40 2007 From: mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Marcel Gagne) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 09:10:40 -0500 Subject: web based shell access without x In-Reply-To: <459C0803.5060702-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <459C0803.5060702@knet.ca> Message-ID: <200701040910.40545.mggagne@salmar.com> Hello Teddy Mills, On Wednesday 03 January 2007 14:46, Teddy David Mills wrote: > I am often at remote locations around town trying to login to my server. > For security reasons, usually I do not have access to a shell to start > with. I setup my last server with X windows, VNC, portforwarding etc. > So I could login to my server via any internet web browser and have > shell access to my home server. > > This time I am not running X. Hmm . . . some thoughts up front and perhaps you can explain why these might or might not work for you. First of all, Webmin, which is available via any browser, does have a Java SSH client built in (and telnet, too). Just go to : http://yourserver:10000/telnet You can also use VNC in a Java enabled-browser. Instead of connecting to port 5900 as you would with the vncviewer program, use this link instead. http://yourserver:5800/ Or 5801 or 5802, etc, depending on the session number (you could have multiple VNC sessions, of course). You didn't say what your client box was, but I'm assuming Windows. Nevertheless, you could run nxserver (FreeNX) on your server and connect using the Windows (or Linux) nxclient. It's fast, not resource intensive, works over SSH (standard port or whatever you like), and it's just like being there. I use nxclient all the time and I get full graphical desktop on machines hundreds and even thousands of miles away. Hope some of this helps. Take care out there. -- Marcel (Writer and Free Thinker at Large) Gagn? Note: This massagee wos nat speel or gramer-checkered. Mandatory home page reference - http://www.marcelgagne.com/ Author of the "Moving to Linux" series of books and the all new, "Moving to Free Software" Join the WFTL-LUG : http://www.marcelgagne.com/wftllugform.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 14:39:39 2007 From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 08:39:39 -0600 (CST) Subject: web based shell access without x In-Reply-To: <200701040910.40545.mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <459C0803.5060702@knet.ca> <200701040910.40545.mggagne@salmar.com> Message-ID: along similar lines, some useful SSH related tools here: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=60894 including a SSH applet... On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, Marcel Gagne wrote: > > Hello Teddy Mills, > > On Wednesday 03 January 2007 14:46, Teddy David Mills wrote: >> I am often at remote locations around town trying to login to my server. >> For security reasons, usually I do not have access to a shell to start >> with. I setup my last server with X windows, VNC, portforwarding etc. >> So I could login to my server via any internet web browser and have >> shell access to my home server. >> >> This time I am not running X. > > Hmm . . . some thoughts up front and perhaps you can explain why these might > or might not work for you. First of all, Webmin, which is available via any > browser, does have a Java SSH client built in (and telnet, too). Just go to : > > http://yourserver:10000/telnet > > You can also use VNC in a Java enabled-browser. Instead of connecting to port > 5900 as you would with the vncviewer program, use this link instead. > > http://yourserver:5800/ > > Or 5801 or 5802, etc, depending on the session number (you could have multiple > VNC sessions, of course). > > You didn't say what your client box was, but I'm assuming Windows. > Nevertheless, you could run nxserver (FreeNX) on your server and connect > using the Windows (or Linux) nxclient. It's fast, not resource intensive, > works over SSH (standard port or whatever you like), and it's just like being > there. I use nxclient all the time and I get full graphical desktop on > machines hundreds and even thousands of miles away. > > Hope some of this helps. > > Take care out there. > > -- Gold For Sale (e-mail me for info!) ----- Scott C. Ripley phone: (416)738-6357 www: http://www.scottripley.com email: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Secure Your E-Mail! http://www.mysecuremail.com/javascrypt/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 14:54:39 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 09:54:39 -0500 Subject: Taking the PDA plunge Message-ID: <20070104145439.GB28218@watson-wilson.ca> I'm almost half way though O'Reilly's 'Time Management for System Administrators'. It is true that I do not have a single organizer. I have calendars in both Outlook (at work) and Remind on my Linux server at home. I have no daily todo list. Now I have to look at getting a single calendar and todo list. A PDA seems a logical choice as it has the potential to allow me to sync to both Outlook and a Linux calendar and todo application (korganize, remind, or other)? My only PDA experience has been with with Blackberries. They are not Linux friendly. What do the rest of you do to keep a single calendar and todo list? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 12 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 15:15:10 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 15:15:10 +0000 Subject: Taking the PDA plunge In-Reply-To: <20070104145439.GB28218-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070104145439.GB28218@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On 1/4/07, Neil Watson wrote: > I'm almost half way though O'Reilly's 'Time Management for System > Administrators'. It is true that I do not have a single organizer. I > have calendars in both Outlook (at work) and Remind on my Linux server > at home. I have no daily todo list. Now I have to look at getting a > single calendar and todo list. A PDA seems a logical choice as it has > the potential to allow me to sync to both Outlook and a Linux calendar > and todo application (korganize, remind, or other)? > > My only PDA experience has been with with Blackberries. They are not > Linux friendly. What do the rest of you do to keep a single calendar > and todo list? PalmOS has gotten quite nicely usable; there are a number of applications that can successfully sync data from a PalmOS PDA. And that doesn't prevent also syncing against Windows, too... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 15:16:26 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:16:26 -0500 Subject: Recent Spadina/College retail experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070104151626.GK3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 11:17:47PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > These store-bought systems are not perfect. Built-in video has no TV > out or DVI. There are fewer PCI slots than I'd like. BIOS updates > are rarer than for motherboards sold retail (so upgrading the CPU > is less likely to work). Documentation isn't as complete. You get > MS Windows whether you want it or not (but it appears to add little to > the price). You don't get to choose the components so some may have > no Linux support (my luck has been worse with notebooks). That is why I build my own computers. I want to know what I have and that it will work and be supported. My experience with name brand machines has never been good. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 15:17:25 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:17:25 -0500 Subject: Help turning old hardware into a firewall In-Reply-To: <7ac602420701031501nec67ec8g7194fc1fbbdef1a0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420701021253o2c0d6107rc676d0ab0c27a6fd@mail.gmail.com> <20070103202935.GG3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420701031501nec67ec8g7194fc1fbbdef1a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070104151725.GL3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 06:00:34PM +1859, Ian Petersen wrote: > Well, I tried lspci -M and I didn't get any further. Thanks for the > tip, though. Well it may be an issue of a missing 3.3V rail on the PCI connector then. That would make the card not even power on and hence not show up on the bus. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 16:07:48 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:07:48 -0500 Subject: No networking with Debian 3.1 with 2.6 kernel In-Reply-To: <568764.92171.qm-5xIzErvUpPiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20061212173452.GG19986@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <568764.92171.qm@web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070104160747.GM3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Dec 24, 2006 at 10:24:06PM -0500, tlug-KfBRzk3UKwol8X4E99VVQg at public.gmane.org wrote: > I tried adding them... no luck. Here is the dmesg and > network restart output. Any ideas? > > *********************************** > /etc/init.d/networking restart > *********************************** > Setting up IP spoofing protection: rp_filter. > Enabling packet forwarding...done. > Reconfiguring network interfaces...ifup: interface lo > already configured > SIOCSIFADDR: No such device > eth0: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such > device > SIOCSIFNETMASK: No such device > SIOCSIFBRDADDR: No such device > eth0: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such > device > eth0: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such > device > Failed to bring up eth0. > Internet Software Consortium DHCP Client 2.0pl5 > Copyright 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999 The Internet > Software Consortium. > All rights reserved. So you really don't appear to have any ethernet ports enabled. What does 'ifconfig -a' show? what about 'cat /etc/modules' and 'lsmod'? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 16:17:04 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:17:04 -0500 Subject: Dig. Camera In-Reply-To: <20061222153929.GA3558-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20061222152613.DJSY12977.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@smtp1.sympatico.ca> <20061222153929.GA3558@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070104161704.GN3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Dec 22, 2006 at 10:39:29AM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > There may not be a quality restriction on xD cards, but the technology > is not as widely licensed, which means it is more expensive and may go > the way of Beta. I have also read and seen cases of xD cards for olympus not working in fuji cameras and vice versa. Apparently olympus uses xD type H and fuji uses xD type M. Way to go. Make the xD cards completely non standard and incompatible even with each other. xD has no future whatsoever in my opinion, and I would not take a camera using xD seriously (and would never buy one). It is a designed disaster. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 16:19:50 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:19:50 -0500 Subject: Dig. Camera In-Reply-To: <1166804516.23496.64.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <20061222152613.DJSY12977.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@smtp1.sympatico.ca> <1166804516.23496.64.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <20070104161950.GO3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Dec 22, 2006 at 11:21:56AM -0500, John Van Ostrand wrote: > The only two cameras that use the xD are Olympia and Fuji so if you buy > into xD you'll find you cannot use your cards anywhere else. They are > different than SD cards and are not interchangeable. > > My Fuji camera was a present but I might have chosen to go with an > SD-based camera given comparable specs. Even so I haven't had much > problems in finding xD media and it really means that I have to > repurchase when moving to a larger camera. I'll probably have to do that > anyway since the jump in megapixels will require a boost in memory. > > I seem to recall that xD was designed to store additional data about the > images like the model of camera and settings at the time. This doesn't > make sense to me since it must use a FAT file system and obviously uses > JPEGs. All cameras store that in the EXIF tag area of the jpeg. It has nothing to do with the memory cards. Fuji and olympus just wanted cards that only worked with their cameras (just like sony's memory sticks although at least those are used in more than just cameras). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 16:22:41 2007 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 11:22:41 -0500 Subject: CMS with picture voting In-Reply-To: <002401c6ff40$a999b310$0405a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <002401c6ff40$a999b310$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <459D29D1.7090209@interlog.com> Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Does anyone know of a good CMS that has a picture/voting pluggin? There are a ton of CMS out there and many of them are quite good. I know that CMS based on PHPnuke (and derivatives such as PostNuke) have modules that allow you to use the PHP-based Gallery package which you can find at http://gallery.menalto.com/. Version 2 of Gallery supports voting. Gallery2 is a very impressive package seriously worth a look. You may also find their notes on embedding Gallery2 (see http://codex.gallery2.org/index.php/Gallery2:Embedding) useful. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 16:23:46 2007 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 11:23:46 -0500 Subject: ubuntu and OpenVPN Message-ID: <459D2A12.4050403@rogers.com> I have installed OpenVPN and the Synaptic Package Manager shows it installed. But the Services program does not show it as a service to activate at boot time. I don't like to go behind the ubuntu GUI when all has worked well so far. Can anyone help me get going? Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 16:26:52 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:26:52 -0500 Subject: Dig. Camera In-Reply-To: <458C1DC6.2080706-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20061222152613.DJSY12977.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@smtp1.sympatico.ca> <1166804516.23496.64.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <458C1DC6.2080706@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070104162652.GP3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Dec 22, 2006 at 01:02:46PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > 1) Price -- while name-brand SD and xD cards are about the same price > for the same capacity, it's easier to find cheaper off-brands for SD. > The Sandisk prices for 2GB cards are between $80-90 for both SD and xD. > However, there are many more brands available for SD, one of them now > offering 2GB cards for $25 (after rebate at tigerdirect) and many others > at less than $40. (One company even sells a 4GB SD card for less than > the cost for a 2GB xD card.) A 4GB SD card must be SDHC not SD. SD is max 2GB by design and there are not too many cameras yet that support SDHC yet. SDHC cards only work in devices with an SDHC logo. SD cards should work in any SDHC device however. > The bottom line: Consider the extra cost of the card when assessing the > full price of the camera. You're going to need an extra card anyway, as > most of the ones included with the cameras are tiny and not too uselful > beyond demos. Many stores like FutureShop can (and will if you press) > drop the price of a card as an incentive to get you to buy a particular > model camera. Also consider the speed of the memory card when buying it. Slower cards take longer to save and load images, and as a result use more power to read and write. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 16:48:04 2007 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:48:04 -0500 Subject: Taking the PDA plunge In-Reply-To: <20070104145439.GB28218-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070104145439.GB28218@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070104164804.GB20103@amtoo.utoronto.ca> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 09:54:39AM -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > My only PDA experience has been with with Blackberries. They are not > Linux friendly. What do the rest of you do to keep a single calendar > and todo list? I have an iPAQ (bought off eBay) that runs a version of Linux, of course! Familiar 0.8.4, with GPE. So I use gpe-calendar and gpe-todo from the iPAQ. You can run them on the desktop machine and sync, but I find it easier to just plug in the iPAQ and run the software on my desktop screen: $ ssh -XY ipaq gpe-calendar I have an iPAQ 3955. But if you buy any later model, it should come with built-in bluetooth, which makes networking and using external keyboards etc. much easier. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A2 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 16:57:05 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 11:57:05 -0500 Subject: Taking the PDA plunge In-Reply-To: <20070104145439.GB28218-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070104145439.GB28218@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <1167929825.5646.94.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2007-04-01 at 09:54 -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > I'm almost half way though O'Reilly's 'Time Management for System > Administrators'. It is true that I do not have a single organizer. I > have calendars in both Outlook (at work) and Remind on my Linux server > at home. I have no daily todo list. Now I have to look at getting a > single calendar and todo list. A PDA seems a logical choice as it has > the potential to allow me to sync to both Outlook and a Linux calendar > and todo application (korganize, remind, or other)? > > My only PDA experience has been with with Blackberries. They are not > Linux friendly. What do the rest of you do to keep a single calendar > and todo list? > I use a palm t|x and like it; I wish it ran linux so the few remaining glitches could be worked out but I can live with it as is. I couldn't sync over usb so do that via wireless network or infrared. Both work flawlessly after a certain amount of configuration hassle. pilot-link & the programs that depend on it don't yet sync certain elements of the newer (os5) databases, e.g. the birthday field in addresses. otherwise it's very good. don't know whether kde apps sync better than the evolution/pilot-link combo? I think jpilot may. best, matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 17:04:47 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 12:04:47 -0500 Subject: Taking the PDA plunge In-Reply-To: <20070104145439.GB28218-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070104145439.GB28218@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <1167930287.5646.96.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2007-04-01 at 09:54 -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > I'm almost half way though O'Reilly's 'Time Management for System > Administrators'. It is true that I do not have a single organizer. I > have calendars in both Outlook (at work) and Remind on my Linux server > at home. I have no daily todo list. Now I have to look at getting a > single calendar and todo list. A PDA seems a logical choice as it has > the potential to allow me to sync to both Outlook and a Linux calendar > and todo application (korganize, remind, or other)? > > My only PDA experience has been with with Blackberries. They are not > Linux friendly. What do the rest of you do to keep a single calendar > and todo list? > I use a palm t|x and like it; I wish it ran linux so the few remaining glitches could be worked out but I can live with it as is. I couldn't sync over usb so do that via wireless network or infrared. Both work flawlessly after a certain amount of configuration hassle. pilot-link & the programs that depend on it don't yet sync certain elements of the newer (os5) databases, e.g. the birthday field in addresses. otherwise it's very good. don't know whether kde apps sync better than the evolution/pilot-link combo? I think jpilot may. best, matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 17:29:23 2007 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 04 Jan 2007 12:29:23 -0500 Subject: a regular supply of perfectly compatible pcmcia cards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "David J Patrick" writes: > I want to stock perfectly compatible 802.11 and hardwire ethernet PCMCIA > cards, and sell (and use) them at the caffe. > I put these questions to you > > 1) what's the best (100% compatible + good price) PCMCIA 802.11 b/g card ? > 2) what's the best PCMCIA ethernet card ? What I'd like is a supply of PCI wireless cards that work well. The PCMCIA ones seem to be a lot better supported in Linux. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 18:10:04 2007 From: Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 13:10:04 -0500 Subject: Taking the PDA plunge In-Reply-To: <1167930287.5646.96.camel@localhost> References: <1167930287.5646.96.camel@localhost> Message-ID: owner-tlug at ss.org wrote on 01/04/2007 12:04:47 PM: > On Thu, 2007-04-01 at 09:54 -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > > I'm almost half way though O'Reilly's 'Time Management for System > > Administrators'. It is true that I do not have a single organizer. I > > have calendars in both Outlook (at work) and Remind on my Linux server > > at home. I have no daily todo list. Now I have to look at getting a > > single calendar and todo list. A PDA seems a logical choice as it has > > the potential to allow me to sync to both Outlook and a Linux calendar > > and todo application (korganize, remind, or other)? > > > > My only PDA experience has been with with Blackberries. They are not > > Linux friendly. What do the rest of you do to keep a single calendar > > and todo list? > > > > I use a palm t|x and like it; I wish it ran linux so the few remaining > glitches could be worked out but I can live with it as is. I couldn't > sync over usb so do that via wireless network or infrared. Both work > flawlessly after a certain amount of configuration hassle. pilot-link & > the programs that depend on it don't yet sync certain elements of the > newer (os5) databases, e.g. the birthday field in addresses. otherwise > it's very good. don't know whether kde apps sync better than the > evolution/pilot-link combo? I think jpilot may. > > best, > matt > > -- > Matt Price > History Dept > University of Toronto > matt.price at utoronto.ca I use a TX as well, syncing via kpilot to kontact and it works flawlessly. Contacts, calendar, notes, and tasks all work fine. _______________________________________________________________________________ Jason Shein Network Administrator ? Linux Systems Iovate Health Sciences Inc. 5100 Spectrum Way Mississauga, ON L4W 5S2 ( 905 ) - 678 - 3119 x 3136 1 - 888 - 334 - 4448, x 3136 (toll-free) jason.shein at iovate.com Customer Service. Collaboration. Innovation. Efficiency. Iovate's Information Technology Team _______________________________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL AND IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE REVIEW OF THE PARTY TO WHOM IT IS ADDRESSED. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS CONFIDENTIAL AND IS DISCLOSED TO YOU UNDER THE EXPRESS UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU WILL NOT DISCLOSE IT OR ITS CONTENTS TO ANY THIRD PARTY WITHOUT THE EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF AN AUTHORIZED OFFICER OF IOVATE HEALTH SCIENCES SERVICES INC. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS TRANSMISSION IN ERROR, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY RETURN IT TO THE SENDER. _______________________________________________________________________________ From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 18:19:19 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 13:19:19 -0500 Subject: bridge eth1 to eth0? In-Reply-To: <200612291559.59810.shrike-3aB5TwEFUAhAfugRpC6u6w@public.gmane.org> References: <1167425490.5513.12.camel@localhost> <200612291559.59810.shrike@heinous.org> Message-ID: <1167934759.5646.103.camel@localhost> joseph, sorry I missed your mail earlier, response inline. m On Fri, 2006-29-12 at 15:59 -0500, Joseph Kubik wrote: > On Friday 29 December 2006 15:51, Matt Price wrote: > > hi, > > > > for stupid reasons I need to install via netboot on a compaq tablet > > (hoping this will work, it's my last shot!). I have an ubuntu desktop > > with two ethernet cards, eth0 & eth1, and have set up dhcp & tftp on > > eth1 as documented in various places on the web, e.g. here: > > > > http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/478 > > > > > > this works fine to a point. I have the ubuntu edgy netboot images > > in /var/lib/tftpboot, my tablet starts up with pxe, finding the images, > > and is ready to install but cannot find the broader internet 0-- it > > doesn't seem to see past the eth1 subnet. So, probably a simple > > question: how do I enable the eth1 traffic to bridge across to eth0 > > and thus access the whole internet? I guess it has something to do with > > ip forwarding or ip masquarading or one of those very scary and arcane > > pieces of dark magic. > > > > I don't want to makethis pre-new year's post too long and am not sure > > which pieces of info arethe most relevant but here's > > the /etc/network/interfaces on the desktop: > > > > # This file describes the network interfaces available on your system > > # and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5). > > > > # The loopback network interface > > auto lo > > iface lo inet loopback > > > > # The primary network interface > > auto eth0 > > #iface eth0 inet dhcp > > iface eth0 inet static > > address 192.168.2.210 > > netmask 255.255.255.0 > > gateway 192.168.2.1 > > > > auto eth1 > > #iface eth1 inet dhcp > > # The second network card with static ip > > iface eth1 inet static > > address 192.168.0.1 > > netmask 255.255.255.0 > > network 192.168.0.0 > > > > -------------- > > I should maybe say that eth0 attaches to a cheap wireless router -- > > simple but not very flexible. The router is then in turn attached > > through a cable modem to the local cable network. > > > > thanks and please let me know what other info I should provide. > > Matt > > If you leave your network the way it is, you don't want bridging, but rather > IP forwarding (aka to turn your system into a router). > > Make sure that the DHCP that is handed to the tablet has it's default route > set to 192.168.0.1 > I think that's right. the gateway is set to 192.168.0.1 via dhcp and no other devices are connected to the internet. do I need to issue a route command to be sure? > Enable IP forwarding. (echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward ) > done, also put it in /etc/sysctl.conf > Either disable any firewall you system is running, or make sure that it allows > traffic to pass through it. (I would disable it, do the install, and then > enable it (I'm lazy)) > > If all of the above fails or is too much, you can follow any of the how-tos on > "how to build a network install mirror" and then point to your own system. > that's an excellent suggestion and one I would have followed if I hadn't found a slightly different solution. as regards this forwrading, htough, I still odn't quite understnad why it's not working I'm wondering whether I need to somehow tell me dumb commodity router what to do with packets from the 192.168.0 subnet. or something. anyway, wish I understood better. thanks and best, matt > -Joseph- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 18:23:33 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 13:23:33 -0500 Subject: Taking the PDA plunge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1167935013.5646.106.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2007-04-01 at 13:10 -0500, Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org wrote: > owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote on 01/04/2007 12:04:47 PM: > > > On Thu, 2007-04-01 at 09:54 -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > > > I'm almost half way though O'Reilly's 'Time Management for System > > > Administrators'. It is true that I do not have a single organizer. I > > > have calendars in both Outlook (at work) and Remind on my Linux server > > > at home. I have no daily todo list. Now I have to look at getting a > > > single calendar and todo list. A PDA seems a logical choice as it has > > > the potential to allow me to sync to both Outlook and a Linux calendar > > > and todo application (korganize, remind, or other)? > > > > > > My only PDA experience has been with with Blackberries. They are not > > > Linux friendly. What do the rest of you do to keep a single calendar > > > and todo list? > > > > > > > I use a palm t|x and like it; I wish it ran linux so the few remaining > > glitches could be worked out but I can live with it as is. I couldn't > > sync over usb so do that via wireless network or infrared. Both work > > flawlessly after a certain amount of configuration hassle. pilot-link & > > the programs that depend on it don't yet sync certain elements of the > > newer (os5) databases, e.g. the birthday field in addresses. otherwise > > it's very good. don't know whether kde apps sync better than the > > evolution/pilot-link combo? I think jpilot may. > > > > best, > > matt > > > > -- > > Matt Price > > History Dept > > University of Toronto > > matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > > I use a TX as well, syncing via kpilot to kontact and it works flawlessly. > Contacts, calendar, notes, and tasks all work fine. do birthdays and other os5 fields get syned too? if so I might actually ocnsider swithing to kde... matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 18:26:31 2007 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 13:26:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Dig. Camera In-Reply-To: <20070104162652.GP3394-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20061222152613.DJSY12977.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@smtp1.sympatico.ca> <1166804516.23496.64.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <458C1DC6.2080706@telly.org> <20070104162652.GP3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Also consider the speed of the memory card when buying it. Slower cards > take longer to save and load images, and as a result use more power to > read and write. Quick question: will those so-called "high speed" SD cards (I see them advertised on Canada Computers' website) work in any device that uses SD cards? JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 18:48:22 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 13:48:22 -0500 Subject: a regular supply of perfectly compatible pcmcia cards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <459D4BF6.7090901@rogers.com> G. Matthew Rice wrote: > "David J Patrick" writes: > >> I want to stock perfectly compatible 802.11 and hardwire ethernet PCMCIA >> cards, and sell (and use) them at the caffe. >> I put these questions to you >> >> 1) what's the best (100% compatible + good price) PCMCIA 802.11 b/g card ? >> 2) what's the best PCMCIA ethernet card ? >> > > What I'd like is a supply of PCI wireless cards that work well. The PCMCIA > ones seem to be a lot better supported in Linux. > > Regards, > Some "PCI" cards are in fact PCMCIA cards in an adapter. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 18:52:49 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 13:52:49 -0500 Subject: ubuntu and OpenVPN In-Reply-To: <459D2A12.4050403-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <459D2A12.4050403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1167936769.6743.1.camel@localhost> I'm pretty sure openvpn has to be configured before it can be started. why not try once to run it by hand: sudo /etc/init.d/openvpn start and see what happens? matt On Thu, 2007-04-01 at 11:23 -0500, Stephen wrote: > I have installed OpenVPN and the Synaptic Package Manager shows it > installed. > > But the Services program does not show it as a service to activate at > boot time. > > I don't like to go behind the ubuntu GUI when all has worked well so far. > > Can anyone help me get going? > > Thanks > Stephen > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 19:00:30 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 14:00:30 -0500 Subject: ubuntu and OpenVPN In-Reply-To: <459D2A12.4050403-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <459D2A12.4050403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <459D4ECE.2030307@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > I have installed OpenVPN and the Synaptic Package Manager shows it > installed. > > But the Services program does not show it as a service to activate at > boot time. > > I don't like to go behind the ubuntu GUI when all has worked well so far. > > Can anyone help me get going? > I generally start it as needed. However, it has to be configured before you can use it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 19:14:02 2007 From: Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:14:02 -0500 Subject: Taking the PDA plunge In-Reply-To: <1167935013.5646.106.camel@localhost> References: <1167935013.5646.106.camel@localhost> Message-ID: > do birthdays and other os5 fields get syned too? if so I might actually > ocnsider swithing to kde... > > matt Yes they do sync, but I must note that I use Agendus Pro on my TX which could affect this.. http://www.iambic.com/agenduspro/palmos/ _______________________________________________________________________________ Jason Shein Network Administrator ? Linux Systems Iovate Health Sciences Inc. 5100 Spectrum Way Mississauga, ON L4W 5S2 ( 905 ) - 678 - 3119 x 3136 1 - 888 - 334 - 4448, x 3136 (toll-free) jason.shein at iovate.com Customer Service. Collaboration. Innovation. Efficiency. Iovate's Information Technology Team _______________________________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL AND IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE REVIEW OF THE PARTY TO WHOM IT IS ADDRESSED. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS CONFIDENTIAL AND IS DISCLOSED TO YOU UNDER THE EXPRESS UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU WILL NOT DISCLOSE IT OR ITS CONTENTS TO ANY THIRD PARTY WITHOUT THE EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF AN AUTHORIZED OFFICER OF IOVATE HEALTH SCIENCES SERVICES INC. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS TRANSMISSION IN ERROR, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY RETURN IT TO THE SENDER. _______________________________________________________________________________ From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 19:53:30 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:53:30 -0500 Subject: Dig. Camera In-Reply-To: References: <20061222152613.DJSY12977.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@smtp1.sympatico.ca> <1166804516.23496.64.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <458C1DC6.2080706@telly.org> <20070104162652.GP3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070104195330.GQ3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 01:26:31PM -0500, John Vetterli wrote: > Quick question: will those so-called "high speed" SD cards (I see them > advertised on Canada Computers' website) work in any device that uses SD > cards? They should. Of course some devices might not be fast enough to take advantage of the extra speed. A faster card simply has faster flash memory that doesn't take as long to update as a slower card. So the card can return from doing a write (or read) faster than a slow card. Most of the compact flash cards I have worked with have a read/write speed of about 2MB/s which is not particularly fast. Of course SDHC cards seem to hve ratings of 2, 4 and 6 MB/s whatever that compares to for the 50x and 133x speed ratings on some cards. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 19:55:09 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:55:09 -0500 Subject: a regular supply of perfectly compatible pcmcia cards In-Reply-To: <459D4BF6.7090901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <459D4BF6.7090901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070104195509.GR3394@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 01:48:22PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > Some "PCI" cards are in fact PCMCIA cards in an adapter. Not very common anymore. MiniPCI on an adapter on the other hand is now quite commom, although plain PCI cards are by far the most common just due to volume production now. It is no longer cost effective to just make pcmcia cards (of which almost none are ever sold anymore) and put them in adapters. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 4 17:14:07 2007 From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 12:14:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Taking the PDA plunge Message-ID: <200701041714.l04HE7Ni012080@localhost.generalconcepts.com> | I'm almost half way though O'Reilly's 'Time Management for System | Administrators'. A good read - Tom writes good books (and is a good person all round too). | My only PDA experience has been with with Blackberries. They are not | Linux friendly. What do the rest of you do to keep a single calendar | and todo list? I also use a Palm T|X that I ebay'd reconditioned and I'm quite happy with it. Big screen, wifi, bluetooth, pictures, mp3s. I sync over wifi to jpilot on freebsd. I'm a happy camper. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 01:16:37 2007 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 20:16:37 -0500 Subject: Taking the PDA plunge In-Reply-To: <200701041714.l04HE7Ni012080-bi+AKbBUZKYsbE7Vo+MiNSGuMlDgniV8mpATvIKMPHk@public.gmane.org> References: <200701041714.l04HE7Ni012080@localhost.generalconcepts.com> Message-ID: I have no clue about syncing with Outlook, but by running gpesyncd, the Nokia 770 might be capable of this. However, if you're not interested in the 770's 802.11g wireless or the nice screen it has, it's probably better to stick with an iPaq running familiar. I've never tried it, but I'm a little disappointed with Nokia's software offering for the 770 - maemo's development doesn't seem to be open, significant parts of it are completely closed source even, and trying to use the SDK has so far been a bit confusing for me. Simon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 02:58:02 2007 From: Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Kerry Panchoo) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 21:58:02 -0500 Subject: JOB: Linux Distribution CD & Live CD developer Message-ID: <459DBEBA.4000207@rogers.com> Linux Distribution CD & Live CD developer Toronto based online video and digital signage software developer is looking for a Linux Guru to do the following: - Create Linux Distribution Live CD with our Digital Signage Media Player applications - Create Linux Install CD with our Digital Signage Media Player applications - Create RPM package of our Digital Signage Media Player applications You will be required to also develop a browser based configuration interface for the media player application. Must Have: - Experience creating a Linux Live CD - Experience creating a custom Linux distribution CD - Experience with Fedora Core Linux Technical Skills: - Linux Shell Scripting - Linux Guru Please send resume to kerry-HMvRPAl1eopBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org with "JOB: Linux Distribution CD & Live CD developer" as the subject. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 05:02:41 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 00:02:41 -0500 Subject: Mythtv backend Message-ID: <200701050002.42138.mervc@eol.ca> I hope I am getting somewhere. I have followed the Ubuntu install instructions as suggested by Aaron Vegh. But since I have never tried to ssh to another computer, I am stopped at configuring the backend using this computer with X installed. Here is where I am, logged on to the backend computer. ssh merv-Q0ErXNX1RuZALGUKhjNAFw at public.gmane.org [ the backend ] The authenticity of host '192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2)' can't be established. RSA key fingerprint is c3:8e:98:40:1c:49:dd:5b:d3:21:32:8c:28:6d:80:bc. Are you sure you want to continue connecting (yes/no)? yes Warning: Permanently added '192.168.0.2' (RSA) to the list of known hosts. I don't imagine this is any probem. now I supply the password and I am logged on. So I try; sudo mythtv-setup. mythtv-setup: cannot connect to X server I read the suggested page at Gentoo-wiki but that didn't clear my grey cells since, it suggests - X11Forwarding needs to be enabled on the sshd server. I checked the file on the backend computer and 'X11 forwarding yes' ... Next the wiki suggests restarting sshd but it isn't in /etc/init.d. , Is that my problem? I did install the openssh-server package and ssh is there but not sshd. On this computer I have openssh-client but not the server installed. Further on, the wiki states to check $DISPLAY and on the backend it is blank. On this 'X' machine it is :0 On the backend machine I typed export DISPLAY=localhost:10.0 as suggested but $DISPLAY still comes up blank when I check from the logged on machine. Did I give enough details? Seems to me in the distant past I went through this $DISPLAY thing. Maybe why I have never succeeded at logging on and running pgm's on another system. Help? - Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Linux Etch Desktop: KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.2.3 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chrisjohn.clarke-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 06:01:16 2007 From: chrisjohn.clarke-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Chris Clarke) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 01:01:16 -0500 Subject: Mythtv backend In-Reply-To: <200701050002.42138.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701050002.42138.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <46c25a710701042201g73777b35o9e304c373804d698@mail.gmail.com> I'm pretty sure if you try ssh -X merv-Q0ErXNX1RuZALGUKhjNAFw at public.gmane.org it will forward it for you Good luck, Chris On 1/5/07, Merv Curley wrote: > I hope I am getting somewhere. > > I have followed the Ubuntu install instructions as suggested by Aaron Vegh. > But since I have never tried to ssh to another computer, I am stopped at > configuring the backend using this computer with X installed. > > Here is where I am, logged on to the backend computer. > > ssh merv-Q0ErXNX1RuZALGUKhjNAFw at public.gmane.org [ the backend ] > The authenticity of host '192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2)' can't be established. > RSA key fingerprint is c3:8e:98:40:1c:49:dd:5b:d3:21:32:8c:28:6d:80:bc. > Are you sure you want to continue connecting (yes/no)? yes > > Warning: Permanently added '192.168.0.2' (RSA) to the list of known hosts. > > I don't imagine this is any probem. now I supply the password and I am logged > on. So I try; sudo mythtv-setup. > > mythtv-setup: cannot connect to X server > > I read the suggested page at Gentoo-wiki but that didn't clear my grey cells > since, it suggests - > > X11Forwarding needs to be enabled on the sshd server. > > I checked the file on the backend computer and 'X11 forwarding yes' ... > > Next the wiki suggests restarting sshd but it isn't in /etc/init.d. , Is > that my problem? I did install the openssh-server package and ssh is there > but not sshd. > On this computer I have openssh-client but not the server installed. > > Further on, the wiki states to check $DISPLAY and on the backend it is blank. > On this 'X' machine it is :0 On the backend machine I typed > export DISPLAY=localhost:10.0 as suggested but $DISPLAY still comes up blank > when I check from the logged on machine. > > Did I give enough details? Seems to me in the distant past I went through > this $DISPLAY thing. Maybe why I have never succeeded at logging on and > running pgm's on another system. > > Help? > > - > Merv Curley > Toronto, Ont. Can > > Debian Linux Etch > Desktop: KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.2.3 > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 13:40:29 2007 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:40:29 -0500 Subject: Mythtv backend In-Reply-To: <200701050002.42138.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701050002.42138.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4386c5b20701050540j2ce8dd05q2cbca298c5760a6e@mail.gmail.com> You might want to try VNC as well. In Ubuntu, you can turn on Remote Desktop, and then use any VNC client to get in. Works well over local networks.... Cheers, Aaron. On 1/5/07, Merv Curley wrote: > I hope I am getting somewhere. > > I have followed the Ubuntu install instructions as suggested by Aaron Vegh. > But since I have never tried to ssh to another computer, I am stopped at > configuring the backend using this computer with X installed. > > Here is where I am, logged on to the backend computer. > > ssh merv-Q0ErXNX1RuZALGUKhjNAFw at public.gmane.org [ the backend ] > The authenticity of host '192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2)' can't be established. > RSA key fingerprint is c3:8e:98:40:1c:49:dd:5b:d3:21:32:8c:28:6d:80:bc. > Are you sure you want to continue connecting (yes/no)? yes > > Warning: Permanently added '192.168.0.2' (RSA) to the list of known hosts. > > I don't imagine this is any probem. now I supply the password and I am logged > on. So I try; sudo mythtv-setup. > > mythtv-setup: cannot connect to X server > > I read the suggested page at Gentoo-wiki but that didn't clear my grey cells > since, it suggests - > > X11Forwarding needs to be enabled on the sshd server. > > I checked the file on the backend computer and 'X11 forwarding yes' ... > > Next the wiki suggests restarting sshd but it isn't in /etc/init.d. , Is > that my problem? I did install the openssh-server package and ssh is there > but not sshd. > On this computer I have openssh-client but not the server installed. > > Further on, the wiki states to check $DISPLAY and on the backend it is blank. > On this 'X' machine it is :0 On the backend machine I typed > export DISPLAY=localhost:10.0 as suggested but $DISPLAY still comes up blank > when I check from the logged on machine. > > Did I give enough details? Seems to me in the distant past I went through > this $DISPLAY thing. Maybe why I have never succeeded at logging on and > running pgm's on another system. > > Help? > > - > Merv Curley > Toronto, Ont. Can > > Debian Linux Etch > Desktop: KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.2.3 > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 14:23:53 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:23:53 -0500 Subject: Mythtv backend In-Reply-To: <200701050002.42138.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701050002.42138.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20070105142353.GA17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 12:02:41AM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > I hope I am getting somewhere. > > I have followed the Ubuntu install instructions as suggested by Aaron Vegh. > But since I have never tried to ssh to another computer, I am stopped at > configuring the backend using this computer with X installed. > > Here is where I am, logged on to the backend computer. > > ssh merv-Q0ErXNX1RuZALGUKhjNAFw at public.gmane.org [ the backend ] > The authenticity of host '192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2)' can't be established. > RSA key fingerprint is c3:8e:98:40:1c:49:dd:5b:d3:21:32:8c:28:6d:80:bc. > Are you sure you want to continue connecting (yes/no)? yes > > Warning: Permanently added '192.168.0.2' (RSA) to the list of known hosts. > > I don't imagine this is any probem. now I supply the password and I am logged > on. So I try; sudo mythtv-setup. mythtv-setup should be run as the user that mythtv runs as, not as root. > mythtv-setup: cannot connect to X server > > I read the suggested page at Gentoo-wiki but that didn't clear my grey cells > since, it suggests - > > X11Forwarding needs to be enabled on the sshd server. > > I checked the file on the backend computer and 'X11 forwarding yes' ... Remember the -X or -Y option for ssh to enable X forwarding. Unless you ask the client to do X forwarding, it doesn't matter if the server is configured to allow it or not after all. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 15:55:31 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:55:31 -0500 Subject: Mythtv backend In-Reply-To: <20070105142353.GA17268-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200701050002.42138.mervc@eol.ca> <20070105142353.GA17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200701051055.31519.mervc@eol.ca> On Friday 05 January 2007 09:23, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > mythtv-setup should be run as the user that mythtv runs as, not as root. > So on the computer that is logging on to the backend, I need to have a mythtv user with the same password as is used on the backend?? Maybe this whole thing is easier if the backend is part of a full X install, and I can configure the backend on the computer where it is running. Of course that doesn't help the Linux learning curve. > > mythtv-setup: cannot connect to X server > > -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Linux Etch Desktop: KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.2.3 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 16:15:29 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:15:29 -0500 Subject: Mythtv backend In-Reply-To: <200701051055.31519.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701050002.42138.mervc@eol.ca> <20070105142353.GA17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200701051055.31519.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20070105161529.GB17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 10:55:31AM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > So on the computer that is logging on to the backend, I need to have a mythtv > user with the same password as is used on the backend?? > > Maybe this whole thing is easier if the backend is part of a full X install, > and I can configure the backend on the computer where it is running. Of > course that doesn't help the Linux learning curve. mythtv-setup is part of the backend, not the frontend. Doesn't installing the backend create a mythtv user account? There must be some howto out there on how to set mythtv up using seperate frontend and backend machines. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 16:16:20 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:16:20 -0500 Subject: Mythtv backend In-Reply-To: <46c25a710701042201g73777b35o9e304c373804d698-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200701050002.42138.mervc@eol.ca> <46c25a710701042201g73777b35o9e304c373804d698@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701051116.21065.mervc@eol.ca> On Friday 05 January 2007 01:01, Chris Clarke wrote: > I'm pretty sure if you try ssh -X merv-Q0ErXNX1RuZALGUKhjNAFw at public.gmane.org it will forward it for > you > > Good luck, > Chris > Yep that seemed to do it, a nice X display came up and the first page of the config displayed [language selection]. This was only after many error messages flashed by - QSqlQuery::exec: database not open QSqlQuery::exec: database not open 2007-01-05 11:07:40.922 DB Error (KickDatabase): Query was: SELECT NULL; No error type from QSqlError? Strange... 2007-01-05 11:07:40.974 Database not open while trying to save setting: Language 2007-01-05 11:07:40.983 Unable to connect to database! 2007-01-05 11:07:40.984 Driver error was [1/1045]: QMYSQL3: Unable to connect Database error was: Access denied for user 'mythtv'@'localhost' (using password: YES) However, on the backend computer I don't know if I need a user 'mythtv'? Right now there doesn't appear to be one. At least I can't log on as mythtv, only as 'merv'. Somewhere I read that the 'mythtv' user was created, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Can I change the user to 'merv' in the backend config or does that have bad implications down the road? Thanks for your time, so far. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Linux Etch Desktop: KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.2.3 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 17:08:55 2007 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:08:55 -0500 Subject: teddy-blog Message-ID: <459E8627.2060200@knet.ca> http://vger1.dyndns.org/serendipity/ I would copy/paste the blog data here, but it would just be copying the same data as whats in the blog. (without graphics) So instead of making new messages, from now, on I will just say "teddy-NEW ITEM" whatever the new item happens to be about. And a very brief description of the problem/issue/resolution. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 17:13:02 2007 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:13:02 -0500 Subject: teddy-sweetwater sweetness Message-ID: <459E871E.1040703@knet.ca> getting ssh2 to work without X or GUI, by using webmin modules. http://vger1.dyndns.org/serendipity/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 17:16:34 2007 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:16:34 -0500 Subject: teddy-3000 pictures of toronto in gallery2 Message-ID: <459E87F2.8080708@knet.ca> http://vger1.dyndns.org/serendipity/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 17:18:55 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:18:55 -0500 Subject: teddy-3000 pictures of toronto in gallery2 In-Reply-To: <459E87F2.8080708-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <459E87F2.8080708@knet.ca> Message-ID: <20070105171855.GC17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 12:16:34PM -0500, Teddy David Mills wrote: > http://vger1.dyndns.org/serendipity/ What does this have to do with TLUG? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 17:32:26 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:32:26 -0500 Subject: teddy-3000 pictures of toronto in gallery2 In-Reply-To: <20070105171855.GC17268-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <459E87F2.8080708@knet.ca> <20070105171855.GC17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <459E8BAA.2020005@telly.org> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> http://vger1.dyndns.org/serendipity/ >> > > What does this have to do with TLUG? > Heaven knows, its contents are at least as relevant as many of the threads here, and there's a direct TLUG reference. Thanks for the blog, Teddy. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 17:45:22 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:45:22 -0500 Subject: Mythtv backend In-Reply-To: <20070105161529.GB17268-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200701050002.42138.mervc@eol.ca> <200701051055.31519.mervc@eol.ca> <20070105161529.GB17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200701051245.22871.mervc@eol.ca> On Friday 05 January 2007 11:15, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 10:55:31AM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > > So on the computer that is logging on to the backend, I need to have a > > mythtv user with the same password as is used on the backend?? > > > > Maybe this whole thing is easier if the backend is part of a full X > > install, and I can configure the backend on the computer where it is > > running. Of course that doesn't help the Linux learning curve. > > mythtv-setup is part of the backend, not the frontend. Doesn't > installing the backend create a mythtv user account? > Well it didn't in my case, using the Ubuntu versions of Mythtv. My other experiences with Knoppmyth and mythdora both did all the background stuff. Maybe if I had used the Debian versions, all would have been well. > There must be some howto out there on how to set mythtv up using > seperate frontend and backend machines. Yes, the Ubuntu wiki [ as provided by Arron Vegh ] has a very good step by step but the shortcomings have led to these messages. Once I get it all working, I won't be unhappy to leave the backend on a Ubuntu base, but I want to add the frontend to this Debian install that I much prefer to Ubuntu. In the meantime I will create the mythtv user on the backend, then log on and get it configured to keep it stock Mythtv. Thanks for the help -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Linux Etch Desktop: KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.2.3 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 17:56:58 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:56:58 -0500 Subject: teddy-3000 pictures of toronto in gallery2 In-Reply-To: <459E8BAA.2020005-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <459E87F2.8080708@knet.ca> <20070105171855.GC17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <459E8BAA.2020005@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070105175658.GD17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 12:32:26PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Heaven knows, its contents are at least as relevant as many of the > threads here, and there's a direct TLUG reference. > > Thanks for the blog, Teddy. Hmm, yeah on further inspection it is at least somewhat related to Linux. I guess I have years of bad experiences with people who think posting URLs without any description is a good idea. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 22:12:55 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:12:55 -0500 Subject: what to use instead of skype? Message-ID: <1168035175.5619.37.camel@localhost> hey folks, so my extended family are all videoconferencing with skype now. I went through some efforts to get skype 1.3 working on my ubuntu laptop (dell latitude d820, some futzy audio settings), only to discover that the linux version has no video!!! I've never been so insulted, I tell ya... anyway, I need to figure out some way of getting video working, or my mother and father will KILL me with endless kvetching about how they don't get to see their grandchildren. So my question: Is there a video conferencing app that works across platforms (windows/linux most important, but my brother and his kiids are on mac, so all three would be better) that I can sell as a skype alternative? thanks as always, matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 22:16:59 2007 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:16:59 -0500 Subject: Counting mail accounts on a system In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <459ECE5B.10007@interlog.com> Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Lets say I need to need to know how many mail accounts exist on > system, how would you do about it? I am thinking of counting directories > under /var/spool/mail, but I am not sure if the directory exist after > popping all mails. Counting accounts on the system would also not be > accurate, since that would include ftp, http users, who just exist > virtually. Counting entries in /var/spool/mail will indicate the number of users who have received mail at one time or another. Even if a user has received mail and retreived the mail via POP there should still be a zero length file remaining in /var/spool/mail. If a person has never received mail you won't find a file in /var/spool/mail. I would expect that any user listed in /etc/passwd that has a password set would have access to e-mail. This would depend on the type of e-mail server you are using. The only other think to look at is if you have set up some restrictions on who has e-mail. You can use that information to reduce the number of accounts you determine by other means. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 23:00:03 2007 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 18:00:03 -0500 Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: <1168035175.5619.37.camel@localhost> References: <1168035175.5619.37.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Matt, On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Matt Price wrote: > > hey folks, > > so my extended family are all videoconferencing with skype now. I went > through some efforts to get skype 1.3 working on my ubuntu laptop (dell > latitude d820, some futzy audio settings), only to discover that the > linux version has no video!!! I just bought a dell laptop running ubuntu and am having a bit of trouble getting skype working. I wasn't going to bother the list with questions, but if you can share any details of how you got it working that could really help a lot. Alex I've never been so insulted, I tell ya... > anyway, I need to figure out some way of getting video working, or my > mother and father will KILL me with endless kvetching about how they > don't get to see their grandchildren. > > So my question: Is there a video conferencing app that works across > platforms (windows/linux most important, but my brother and his kiids > are on mac, so all three would be better) that I can sell as a skype > alternative? > > thanks as always, > matt > > -- > Matt Price > History Dept > University of Toronto > matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 23:06:06 2007 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 18:06:06 -0500 Subject: LCD TVs, computers, & linux Message-ID: Hi All, My wife and I have decided to finally splurge on a mid-sized flat screen TV. I was hoping at some point in the future to be able to use it as an extra large monitor now and then. I don't know that at all realistic. If it is, does it matter at all which brand we get (we got a sony LCD but have 30 days to return)? Also, are there special drivers or programs I would need? Just thought I would see if any one has thoughts on this before our 30 day return period is up. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 23:19:23 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 18:19:23 -0500 Subject: LCD TVs, computers, & linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200701051819.23307.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Friday 05 January 2007 18:06, Alex Maynard wrote: > My wife and I have decided to finally splurge on a mid-sized flat screen > TV. I was hoping at some point in the future to be able to use it as an > extra large monitor now and then. I don't know that at all realistic. If it We bought one last summer and use it periodically with the laptop to see our digital pictures in 37" VGA mode. In our case connect the laptop, flip it to VGA out, end of story. If you wanted to do crazy things like play video games then there would probably be a lot more to consider. One of these days I'm planning to get a computer permanently connected to the TV for general use. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 23:37:09 2007 From: mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Marcel Gagne) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 18:37:09 -0500 Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: <1168035175.5619.37.camel@localhost> References: <1168035175.5619.37.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200701051837.09619.mggagne@salmar.com> Hello Matt, On Friday 05 January 2007 17:12, Matt Price wrote: > > So my question: Is there a video conferencing app that works across > platforms (windows/linux most important, but my brother and his kiids > are on mac, so all three would be better) that I can sell as a skype > alternative? A superb (cross platform) alternative with video support included for Linux is WengoPhone. Cheaper than Skype by a long shot if you want to call landlines. It's also a SIP phone so you can use it to call other SIP phones. http://www.wengophone.com/index.php/homePage Take care out there. -- Marcel (Writer and Free Thinker at Large) Gagn? Note: This massagee wos nat speel or gramer-checkered. Mandatory home page reference - http://www.marcelgagne.com/ Author of the "Moving to Linux" series of books and the all new, "Moving to Free Software" Join the WFTL-LUG : http://www.marcelgagne.com/wftllugform.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 23:59:50 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 18:59:50 -0500 Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <459EE676.6040005@telly.org> Alex Maynard wrote: > I just bought a dell laptop running ubuntu and am having a bit of trouble getting skype working. I wasn't going to bother the list with questions, > but if you can share any details of how you got it working that could really help a lot. > I've had Skype working on my Ubuntu (Edgy) equipped systems, and it's worked well for me. Its call quality is far better than Vonage, which I ditched a few months ago once I got Skype working. The Linux and Mac versions of Skype are 1.3, while the Windows version is at version 3 (which includes the webcam support). Apparently the Linux version is going through a major rewrite, based on Qt4 (http://share.skype.com/sites/linux/2006/11/skype_progress.html#comment-13468); the message thread on that indicates that video and SMS capability is coming Real Soon Now. I had some sound problems with Ubuntu Dapper; for reasons unknown (to me), Edgy seems to work OK. If I can be of help to anyone trying to make Skype work, I'll do what I can. My account name is 'evanleibovitch'. Having said all that, I'll have a look at Wengo after Marcel's message. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 6 00:08:33 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 19:08:33 -0500 Subject: Mythtv-setup - we're getting there Message-ID: <200701051908.33849.mervc@eol.ca> Ok chaps, with your knowledge and my typing skills we are almost there. Halfway through the mythtv-setup and it told me no devices probed [ or some such ]. I have 2 PVR-150's plugged into the motherboard. The computer with the working Mythtv has an Adaptec videoh board [ ivtv driven ]. lsmod revealed only one module in common with all the ones reported by my working MythDora install. I just have ic2_core and it doesn't show a relationship with ivtv. On MythDora I have ivtv, videodev, 12c_algo_bit, cx2341x, tveeprom, v411_compat, v412_common, and i2c_core lists ivtv and others. I assume that a modprobe might be the answer? I appreciate all the help... -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Linux Etch Desktop: KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.2.3 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simone.richard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 6 00:28:45 2007 From: simone.richard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simone Richard) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 19:28:45 -0500 Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: <459EE676.6040005-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <459EE676.6040005@telly.org> Message-ID: <1bb290701051628l5ae931emcce013c47742ff1d@mail.gmail.com> Looking up Wengo, I came across this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_VoIP_software I don't know how accurate the info is. Cheers, Simone -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 6 00:26:38 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 19:26:38 -0500 Subject: LCD TVs, computers, & linux In-Reply-To: <200701051819.23307.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200701051819.23307.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <200701051926.39033.mervc@eol.ca> On Friday 05 January 2007 18:19, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Friday 05 January 2007 18:06, Alex Maynard wrote: > > My wife and I have decided to finally splurge on a mid-sized flat screen > > TV. I was hoping at some point in the future to be able to use it as an > > extra large monitor now and then. I don't know that at all realistic. If > > it > > We bought one last summer and use it periodically with the laptop to see > our digital pictures in 37" VGA mode. In our case connect the laptop, flip > it to VGA out, end of story. > > If you wanted to do crazy things like play video games then there would > probably be a lot more to consider. One of these days I'm planning to get > a computer permanently connected to the TV for general use. My Panasonic projector has a dvi input for a computer input and 2 component in's, so if one bought an adaptor to make YPbPr then that might work too. It has S-Video input but no RF input so the TV out of a video card is probably not useful. One other nice input is a serial RS 232 input, so with a bit of programming I believe the idea is to control the projector functions with a computer. Have fun. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Linux Etch Desktop: KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.2.3 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dgardiner0821-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 6 00:50:49 2007 From: dgardiner0821-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (DANIEL GARDINER) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 19:50:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: LCD TVs, computers, & linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <149500.79020.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Alex Maynard wrote: Hi All, My wife and I have decided to finally splurge on a mid-sized flat screen TV. I was hoping at some point in the future to be able to use it as an extra large monitor now and then. I don't know that at all realistic. If it is, does it matter at all which brand we get (we got a sony LCD but have 30 days to return)? Also, are there special drivers or programs I would need? Just thought I would see if any one has thoughts on this before our 30 day return period is up. Alex It's definitely possible, that's how I have my system set up right now. It all depends on what kind of connections your tv and video card will support. Many (if not all) will have SVGA (if your video card has this) and there are several models of that have a regular vga input (which I use). I have encountered some problems with the widescreen television. Best that I can tell it's something to do with the actual screen size and the "regular" tv signal (which is still just a square box that can be zoomed in several ways to become widescreen). Linux can take advantage of the full screen dimension without zooming (haven't been able to do that in windows) but there are someimes problems configuring X properly. I've had live cds work find only to end up with a black screen after installation. Also seen the boot sequence switch back and forth between the svga and vga inputs. Daniel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 6 01:50:28 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 20:50:28 -0500 Subject: Mythtv-setup - we're getting there In-Reply-To: <200701051908.33849.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701051908.33849.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <200701052050.28825.mervc@eol.ca> On Friday 05 January 2007 19:08, Merv Curley wrote: Oops, just found another Ubuntu help page which describes installing ivtv, I didn't realize I had to do that. Off I go .... > Ok chaps, with your knowledge and my typing skills we are almost there. > > Halfway through the mythtv-setup and it told me no devices probed [ or some > such ]. I have 2 PVR-150's plugged into the motherboard. The computer with > the working Mythtv has an Adaptec videoh board [ ivtv driven ]. > > lsmod revealed only one module in common with all the ones reported by my > working MythDora install. I just have ic2_core and it doesn't show a > relationship with ivtv. > > On MythDora I have ivtv, videodev, 12c_algo_bit, cx2341x, tveeprom, > v411_compat, v412_common, and i2c_core lists ivtv and others. I assume > that a modprobe might be the answer? > > I appreciate all the help... -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Linux Etch Desktop: KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.2.3 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 6 02:19:28 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 21:19:28 -0500 Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: <200701051837.09619.mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1168035175.5619.37.camel@localhost> <200701051837.09619.mggagne@salmar.com> Message-ID: <459F0730.2000404@telly.org> Marcel Gagne wrote: > A superb (cross platform) alternative with video support included for Linux is > WengoPhone. Cheaper than Skype by a long shot if you want to call landlines. > It's also a SIP phone so you can use it to call other SIP phones. > > http://www.wengophone.com/index.php/homePage > There's more info (and a direct comparison between Wengo and Skype) at http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/wengo_phone Now... in checking all this out I came across "the Gizmo project", which is the new project of the inventor of MP3.com and Linspire. Does anyone here know about it as an alternative to Skype or Wengo? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 6 04:02:24 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 23:02:24 -0500 Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1168056144.5513.12.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2007-05-01 at 18:00 -0500, Alex Maynard wrote: > Matt, > > On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Matt Price wrote: > > > > > hey folks, > > > > so my extended family are all videoconferencing with skype now. I went > > through some efforts to get skype 1.3 working on my ubuntu laptop (dell > > latitude d820, some futzy audio settings), only to discover that the > > linux version has no video!!! > > I just bought a dell laptop running ubuntu and am having a bit of trouble > getting skype working. I wasn't going to bother the list with questions, > but if you can share any details of how you got it working that could > really help a lot. > well, if you have a d820 or similar computer with this card: ~$ amixer info Card default 'Intel'/'HDA Intel at 0xdfffc000 irq 21' Mixer name : 'SigmaTel STAC9200' Components : 'HDA:83847690 HDA:14f12bfa' Controls : 11 Simple ctrls : 6 then the solution may be pretty simple. Use skype 1.3 (available in rpm and deb on their website) and upgrade your alsa-tools and alsa-utils ot 1.0.13; running a recent kernel may help also. THen run alsamiixer, and toggle the "input source" between 'mic' and 'front mic' a couple of times; after you've toggled, the internal mic should work (assuming you're set back to "mic"). THat was my main issue. The other one of course was that skype wanted to steal /dev/dsp; but 1.3 now supports alsa, so that's not an issue anymore. can be more specific if you think it would help, lemme know how it goes... matt > Alex > > > I've never been so insulted, I tell ya... > > anyway, I need to figure out some way of getting video working, or my > > mother and father will KILL me with endless kvetching about how they > > don't get to see their grandchildren. > > > > So my question: Is there a video conferencing app that works across > > platforms (windows/linux most important, but my brother and his kiids > > are on mac, so all three would be better) that I can sell as a skype > > alternative? > > > > thanks as always, > > matt > > > > -- > > Matt Price > > History Dept > > University of Toronto > > matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 6 04:09:02 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 23:09:02 -0500 Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: <200701051837.09619.mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1168035175.5619.37.camel@localhost> <200701051837.09619.mggagne@salmar.com> Message-ID: <1168056542.5513.16.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2007-05-01 at 18:37 -0500, Marcel Gagne wrote: > Hello Matt, > > On Friday 05 January 2007 17:12, Matt Price wrote: > > > > So my question: Is there a video conferencing app that works across > > platforms (windows/linux most important, but my brother and his kiids > > are on mac, so all three would be better) that I can sell as a skype > > alternative? > > A superb (cross platform) alternative with video support included for Linux is > WengoPhone. Cheaper than Skype by a long shot if you want to call landlines. > It's also a SIP phone so you can use it to call other SIP phones. > > http://www.wengophone.com/index.php/homePage > > Take care out there. > alas, I am having immense trouble getting wengophoneto work on my laptop. not usre if it's a soundcard error or something else, but it don't work at all for me; if I call the test number (333) I get only some vague crackling static and naught else. If the situation improves I'll definitely switch though... matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 6 11:05:46 2007 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 06:05:46 -0500 Subject: LCD TVs, computers, & linux In-Reply-To: <149500.79020.qm-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <149500.79020.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F47301F2E165@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> Have just got into the digital advertising business a few months back, this is one I may actually be able to contribute to... Many of the video cards recognize the system at the other end. What does that mean to you...some formats depending on the TV may not be supported. We find many of the systems don't support the 1280X768 mode (wide) but vitually all support 1024X768. Some will not let video card output what TV is capable of. Several PC's switch on the next reboot back to a more common resolution. Use a lot of Shuttle PC's and this is a common problem. Dell Optiplex's good. Compaq Deskpro's..don't get me started...Custom boxes with ATI cards...mixed experiences...why ATI...the streaming software was written hard coding some of the ATI attributes hence only ones that work for our application...not my call...stuck with it. That said, we're using all wide panel screens hence the 1024X768 needs content adjusted to look right. Viewsonics (32, 37 and 42's tested so far)...good price. Nuisance though in that "power save" is a blue screen rather than a power save mode. LG (32 and 37 tested so far)- good price. Can be configured to come on in scan for PC input first or start in PC input mode rather than TV. Sharp looking units. Sharp Aquos (42 tested so far) - fair price, excellent hdtv compared to few others I've seen (limited experience on this), computer input...AGGGGHHHHH. Keeps flipping to 640X480 - digital pic viewing lousy. Adjust system to hgher res, at next restart, back to low res mode again. Recommendation would be to take your PC down when you plan to buy (assuming it's a laptop)...plug in and test, configure the optimum then do a reboot and see if it retains the settings...or make sure you get from a store with a liberal return policy...test it for your self.. Good luck. D. _____ From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of DANIEL GARDINER Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 7:51 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: LCD TVs, computers, & linux Alex Maynard wrote: Hi All, My wife and I have decided to finally splurge on a mid-sized flat screen TV. I was hoping at some point in the future to be able to use it as an extra large monitor now and then. I don't know that at all realistic. If it is, does it matter at all which brand we get (we got a sony LCD but have 30 days to return)? Also, are there special drivers or programs I would need? Just thought I would see if any one has thoughts on this before our 30 day return period is up. Alex It's definitely possible, that's how I have my system set up right now. It all depends on what kind of connections your tv and video card will support. Many (if not all) will have SVGA (if your video card has this) and there are several models of that have a regular vga input (which I use). I have encountered some problems with the widescreen television. Best that I can tell it's something to do with the actual screen size and the "regular" tv signal (which is still just a square box that can be zoomed in several ways to become widescreen). Linux can take advantage of the full screen dimension without zooming (haven't been able to do that in windows) but there are someimes problems configuring X properly. I've had live cds work find only to end up with a black screen after installation. Also seen the boot sequence switch back and forth between the svga and vga inputs. Daniel -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.6/617 - Release Date: 1/5/2007 11:11 AM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.6/617 - Release Date: 1/5/2007 11:11 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 6 16:01:42 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 11:01:42 -0500 Subject: LCD TVs, computers, & linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1f13df280701060801r37610d98lb7db6612c612be61@mail.gmail.com> On 1/5/07, Alex Maynard wrote: > My wife and I have decided to finally splurge on a mid-sized flat screen > TV. I was hoping at some point in the future to be able to use it as an extra > large monitor now and then. I don't know that at all realistic. If it is, > does it matter at all which brand we get (we got a sony LCD but have 30 > days to return)? Also, are there special drivers or programs I would > need? Just thought I would see if any one has thoughts on this before our > 30 day return period is up. My brother bought a 37" Sceptre 1080p a few months back. This is a 1920x1080 resolution screen, as opposed to the much commoner 1080i = 1366x768 resolution. Given the size of these monitors, if you're considering using it with a computer, the higher resolution is a real plus. This unit has a VGA in, and was very easy to set up with the older (900MHz?) dual boot machine we're using. The computer has a Radeon 7500 in it. Windows didn't really have any trouble with it. Ubuntu took a bit of hand-tweaking of the xorg.conf file, it now runs at native screen resolution with 24 bit colour, and it looks fabulous. We ran "Elephant's Dream" at 1024x768, utterly fantastic. Sadly, at higher res all of the Linux video players generated odd colour bands. I hope to buy a similar screen for myself sometime. When I do, I'll definitely be looking for 1080p: it may not ever become a commonly used standard, but the extra resolution would definitely be worth it. And I'll look for VGA (or DVI) in. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 6 16:21:54 2007 From: mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Marcel Gagne) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 11:21:54 -0500 Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: <459F0730.2000404-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1168035175.5619.37.camel@localhost> <200701051837.09619.mggagne@salmar.com> <459F0730.2000404@telly.org> Message-ID: <200701061121.54890.mggagne@salmar.com> Hello Evan, and others, On Friday 05 January 2007 21:19, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Now... in checking all this out I came across "the Gizmo project", which > is the new project of the inventor of MP3.com and Linspire. Does anyone > here know about it as an alternative to Skype or Wengo? The Gizmo Project is a great SIP phone and I recommend it as well. It's also cross platform so Windows users can have one too. The catch, for the purposes of this original discussion, is that it does not have video support. It DOES, however, have a recording capability (oooohhh!) which makes it great for podcasts or interviews bound for podcasts. Later, eh. Take care out there. -- Marcel (Writer and Free Thinker at Large) Gagn? Note: This massagee wos nat speel or gramer-checkered. Mandatory home page reference - http://www.marcelgagne.com/ Author of the "Moving to Linux" series of books and the all new, "Moving to Free Software" Join the WFTL-LUG : http://www.marcelgagne.com/wftllugform.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 6 17:29:52 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 12:29:52 -0500 Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: <200701061121.54890.mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1168035175.5619.37.camel@localhost> <200701051837.09619.mggagne@salmar.com> <459F0730.2000404@telly.org> <200701061121.54890.mggagne@salmar.com> Message-ID: <459FDC90.8060209@telly.org> Marcel Gagne wrote: > The Gizmo Project is a great SIP phone and I recommend it as well. It's also cross platform so Windows users can have one too. The catch, for the purposes of this original discussion, is that it does not have video support. It DOES, however, have a recording capability (oooohhh!) which makes it great for podcasts or interviews bound for podcasts. I notice that it also appears to be the only one of any of the SIP projects to offer Canadian dial-in numbers. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 6 19:58:27 2007 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 14:58:27 -0500 Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: <459FDC90.8060209-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1168035175.5619.37.camel@localhost> <200701051837.09619.mggagne@salmar.com> <459F0730.2000404@telly.org> <200701061121.54890.mggagne@salmar.com> <459FDC90.8060209@telly.org> Message-ID: Ekiga is easy to use, but I've never had anyone to test the video with. You might be able to get your Windows-using acquaintences to interoperate with that feature using NetMeeting. For just audio SIP calls, Ekiga is the way to go, since you can use it with any SIP provider you have an account with. However, if you plan on using SIP often, perhap you may want to get an ATA (analog telephone adapter) to provide you with a phone line you can make calls on. If you're trying to use the video feature, this page will help: http://wiki.ekiga.org/index.php/Which_programs_work_with_Ekiga_%3F Also, there are several access numbers in Canada that allow people to make SIP calls for free using their existing phone line, but I haven't found any in Toronto. I tried the one I know about for Kitchener yesterday and it worked nicely. For Toronto, bbpglobal.com has an access number that you call where you can then dial the number of the bbpglobal SIP account you're trying to reach. For the other numbers, see http://www.sipbroker.com/sipbroker/action/pstnNumbers . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 6 22:04:29 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 17:04:29 -0500 Subject: Syncing PDA Message-ID: <20070106220429.GA5781@watson-wilson.ca> After our last discussion I took the plunge and bought a Palm Z22. I'm having a heck of a time trying to sync it. I've loaded the visor and usbserial kernel modules. When I attempt to have kpilot find the device, which appears as /dev/pilot => /dev/ttyUSBx the PDA briefly reports a sync but then goes quite. Kpilot report that it cannot find the device. I see some errors in the kernel log files: usb 1-3.2: new full speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 39 hub 1-3:1.0: Cannot enable port 2. Maybe the USB cable is bad? hub 1-3:1.0: Cannot enable port 2. Maybe the USB cable is bad? hub 1-3:1.0: Cannot enable port 2. Maybe the USB cable is bad? hub 1-3:1.0: Cannot enable port 2. Maybe the USB cable is bad? usb 1-3.2: new full speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 43 usb 1-3.2: device descriptor read/64, error -110 After that the /dev/ttyUSBx files disappear and do not return even when I attempt another sync. I've tried two different cables using both USB2 and USB1 ports but the error persists. I'm using kernel 2.6.19.1 and Debian Sarge. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 16:59:04 up 29 min, 3 users, load average: 1.21, 1.20, 0.73 http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 7 02:54:55 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 21:54:55 -0500 Subject: Syncing PDA In-Reply-To: <20070106220429.GA5781-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070106220429.GA5781@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <1168138495.5513.25.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2007-06-01 at 17:04 -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > After our last discussion I took the plunge and bought a Palm Z22. I'm > having a heck of a time trying to sync it. I've loaded the visor and > usbserial kernel modules. When I attempt to have kpilot find the > device, which appears as /dev/pilot => /dev/ttyUSBx the PDA briefly > reports a sync but then goes quite. Kpilot report that it cannot find > the device. I see some errors in the kernel log files: > > usb 1-3.2: new full speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 39 > hub 1-3:1.0: Cannot enable port 2. Maybe the USB cable is bad? > hub 1-3:1.0: Cannot enable port 2. Maybe the USB cable is bad? > hub 1-3:1.0: Cannot enable port 2. Maybe the USB cable is bad? > hub 1-3:1.0: Cannot enable port 2. Maybe the USB cable is bad? > usb 1-3.2: new full speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 43 > usb 1-3.2: device descriptor read/64, error -110 > > After that the /dev/ttyUSBx files disappear and do not return even when > I attempt another sync. I've tried two different cables using both USB2 > and USB1 ports but the error persists. I'm using kernel 2.6.19.1 and > Debian Sarge. > I've never used that model but I know from my experience with the t|x that some palms have buggy usb drivers and the devices appear at the wrong time for the syncing software to figure it out. A brand new version of pilot-link has just appeared and may fix some of those issues; in any case pilot-link is usually the best way to diagnose syncing problems as it's more flexible. The mailing list is also helpful. can't remember where to get the packages, though, and on my way out right now, sorry, matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From pallen3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 7 04:40:07 2007 From: pallen3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Patrick Allen) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 22:40:07 -0600 Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: <1168035175.5619.37.camel@localhost> References: <1168035175.5619.37.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <45A079A7.9050608@cogeco.ca> Hi Matt, and List, Matt Price wrote: > So my question: Is there a video conferencing app that works across > platforms? I'm unsure of it's "conferencing" capabilities, but Kopete really surprised me recently and actually recognizes my USB webcam and it works with Yahoo. Friends running a windows client for Yahoo were able to see my camera without a problem. I've yet to explore exactly how well everything works. But everything was a green light right from the Synaptic install. 2.6.17 KDE 3.5.5 -- Patrick Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 7 05:37:46 2007 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 00:37:46 -0500 Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: <45A079A7.9050608-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <1168035175.5619.37.camel@localhost> <45A079A7.9050608@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: I suppose you could run Kopete and ekiga at the same time if you don't get it all working in Ekiga. I second Kopete's wonderful webcam support. It's been in since the initial KDE 3.5 release. I don't think it does audio though (except for some simple jingle support for Google Talk). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 7 06:06:17 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 01:06:17 -0500 Subject: udev rules to turn networkmanager on and off? Message-ID: <1168149977.5517.25.camel@localhost> Hi, I have a tablet (compaq tc1000) with a flaky atmel wireless card that cuts out about once a day. When that happens, I can't get the carad to start back up again without rebooting, and sometimes even that doesn't work. Foretunately I have a prism2_usb wireless device that I can just plug in to the ocmputer when that happens. The device works fine but doesn't play with network-manager proerly -- n-m sees it, but isn't able to identify networks to which it might connect. The solution isn't so difficult -- I just stop n0m with (in ubuntu): sudo /etc/dbus-1/event.d/25NetworkManager stop ifup wlan0 where wlan0 is configured thus in /etc/network/interfaces: iface wlan0 inet dhcp wireless-mode managed since I have an unsecured network that's enough to get the thing to connect. However, this tablet is used mostly by my daughter who uses it largely to surf the internet. Itwould be great if she could use it as much as possible without the usb device connected, and THEN have the device brought up automatically, and network-manager stopped, when the device is plugged in. It would be great if network-manager could be restarted when the device is pulled out, too. I have a dumb little script that does what I want: #!/bin/sh case "$1" in start) /etc/dbus-1/event.d/25NetworkManager stop ifup wlan0 ;; stop) ifdown wlan0 /etc/dbus-1/event.d/25NetworkManager start ;; force-reload|restart) $0 stop $0 start ;; *) echo "Usage: /usr/local/scripts/usb_wireless {start|stop|restart| force-reload}" exit 1 ;; esac exit 0 ---------------- this works fine for me, but I'd like to have this script triggered automagically by udev or something. I was just wondering whether there was an obvious way to do this through udev; or if maybe there's also a better way to do it. I did try this in udev (using the udev rule that comes with the ubuntu linux-wlan-ng package). The first rule in the bunch is the default rule, the second is my first unsuccessful try, the third is my second unsuccessful try... : #SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", ENV{PHYSDEVDRIVER}=="prism2_usb", RUN+="/bin/sh -c '/sbin/wlanctl-ng $env{INTERFACE} lnxreq_ifstate ifstate=enable && sleep 3 && dbus-send --system /org/freedesktop/NetworkM anager org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.RefreshDevice string:$env{INTERFACE}'" #SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", ENV{PHYSDEVDRIVER}=="prism2_usb", RUN+="/bin/sh -c '/sbin/wlanctl-ng $env{INTERFACE} lnxreq_ifstate ifstate=enable && sleep 3 && /etc/dbus-1/event.d/25NetworkManager stop && ifup string:$env{INTERFACE}'" SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", ENV{PHYSDEVDRIVER}=="prism2_usb", RUN+="/bin/sh -c '/sbin/wlanctl-ng $env{INTERFACE} lnxreq_ifstate ifstate=enable && sleep 3 && /etc/dbus-1/event.d/25NetworkManager stop && ifup %k'" anyway I seem to be missing something so if anyone knows what it is I'd be right obliged... thanks, matt anyway htanks, matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 7 05:49:58 2007 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 00:49:58 -0500 Subject: Syncing PDA In-Reply-To: <1168138495.5513.25.camel@localhost> References: <20070106220429.GA5781@watson-wilson.ca> <1168138495.5513.25.camel@localhost> Message-ID: I found that timing is important when syncing my Z22 with JPilot. You have to hit sync right after you activate it on the handheld. It helps to have a udev rule to symlink the correct device to /dev/pilot, so that if it changes, you don't have to update your sync software. Ubuntu already does this, but I used to have a similar rule before that. This is what is present currently, put it in a file (ie. 99-custom.rules) in /etc/udev/rules.d if there isn't already something to handle this: # Create /dev/pilot symlink for Palm Pilots KERNEL=="ttyUSB*", SYSFS{product}=="Palm Handheld*|Handspring *", \ SYMLINK+="pilot" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 7 07:52:42 2007 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 02:52:42 -0500 Subject: udev rules to turn networkmanager on and off? In-Reply-To: <1168149977.5517.25.camel@localhost> References: <1168149977.5517.25.camel@localhost> Message-ID: what if the line that stops NM isn't returning 0? You could put touch commands in between or something to trace what's going on, or you can try calling your script instead of inlining those commands. Also, assuming your tablet uses a mini-PCI wireless card, you can replace your card by buying another one. I plan on buying an MSI card for my notebook, which is not an MSI machine and includes a bcm4306 card (Broadcom have a bad attitude). MSI cards should have a Ralink chip that uses either the rt2500 or rt61 driver. I know first hand that as of last summer the rt2500 driver was much more usable, but hopefully the state of the driver for rt2561 chips will have improved by now. When I eventually get my card I'll describe how well it works. Simon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 7 22:23:07 2007 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 17:23:07 -0500 Subject: webcam/mic recommendations? In-Reply-To: <459D0B30.9070402-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1167918099.5646.83.camel@localhost> <459D0B30.9070402@rogers.com> Message-ID: SIP is an alternative to the protocol that Skype uses. Because Skype's protocol is closed, you can't work with it with any clients other than Skype. On the other hand, with SIP, you can use it with a variety of software and hardware SIP clients, which can take the form of phones, and analogue telephone adapters that you can hook up an ordinary phone into to make calls with. I have a box next to me that can bridge a landline and VoIP call, letting me dial the landline, and make an outgoing long distance call over the internet through the box for next to nothing ( plus the cost of the landline, of course). SIP is not tied to Linux at all, so your best bet is to try to get your Windows using friends to switch to a SIP client. According to Ekiga's wiki there is video support in NetMeeting and in Windows Messenger ( oddly enough ), so you can try those two. I just tried using SIP with Windows Messenger and it seems quite easy to set up (I wasn't there though, I'm on the Linux end), so try that: 0. Make sure everyone has the latest version of Windows Messenger (and note that this is NOT MSN Messenger) 1. Get SIP addresses for each person from ekiga.net. 2. Configure their Windows Messengers to use their SIP addresses, and your Ekiga to use yours. Sign in, of course.. 3. Make a call to the address of the person you want to reach. I just tested this with a friend using SIP addresses from Ekiga.net, and it works with both audio and video. The audio was bad, but I think it was the bandwidth, and I can't really fix that right now, bad internet connection. Hopefully it will work well enough for you. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 7 23:27:23 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 18:27:23 -0500 Subject: need 128mb micro-dimm Message-ID: <45A181DB.2070103@utoronto.ca> Trying to refurbish a laptop that currently has 64mb of ram installed. Apparently it takes 66mhz micro-dimm ram, the extra slot allowing for up to 128mb in one stick. Does anyone have any extra that I could buy or borrow (until the 1st of Feb.) ? TIA, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 8 03:38:16 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 22:38:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: MythTV update Message-ID: <20070108033817.66355.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Just to note for those who use MythTV, there is a new version of the software out (Release 5 E50), the version used at the installfest last year was R5D1. Details to be seen here: http://www.mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html I got R5E50 installed earlier today, so I have not had real time to play with the new version yet. No BIG changes that I have seen YET, just some small tweaks... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 8 12:35:43 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 07:35:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: KnoppMythTV update In-Reply-To: <20070108033817.66355.qmail-7EKNVtTItHqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070108033817.66355.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <985622.62660.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Late at night, I should have made it clear in my message I was talking about KnoppMyth NOT MythTV. MythTV has been at version 0.20 for a few months, and now KnoppMyth, who's big focus is making MythTV a painless install is up to Release 5 E50. The install of MythTV version 0.20 a big selling point for the new KnoppMyth R5E50... Sorry about any confusion I may have caused... Colin McGregor --- Colin McGregor wrote: > Just to note for those who use MythTV, there is a > new > version of the software out (Release 5 E50), the > version used at the installfest last year was R5D1. > Details to be seen here: > > http://www.mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html > > I got R5E50 installed earlier today, so I have not > had > real time to play with the new version yet. No BIG > changes that I have seen YET, just some small > tweaks... > > Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 8 16:00:15 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 19:00:15 +0300 Subject: Radiator integration with openldap Message-ID: Hi all, I seem to be having a problem for the last two days with configuring a Radiator setup I am currently implementing. I have google, read the manual that come with the radiator, but I can't get myself out of the quagmire, so please help. The radiator and openldap both are running on the same box. Installed on the box is fedora 6 with the latest update. I am using the default openldap installation on fedora and the company has bought Radiator 3.15, a good implementation of radius, so I hear. I have been able to set up ldap and can querry data from it using the ldap tools. Radiator can also work as I have used the test script that come with it, for example radpwtst, radtest and they are not whining. The problem is I don't want to use the local user file, /etc/radiator/users as I suspect is what is currently happening. I have arrived at this conclusion as stopping slapd don't seem to affect radiator Below is the pertinent config that I thought would integrate radius to ldap. #AuthByPolicy ContinueUntilAccept Identifier CheckLDAP Host localhost Port 389 AuthDN cn=Manager,dc=Company,dc=com AuthPassword secret # # Filename %D/users # Please advice William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 8 16:28:34 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 11:28:34 -0500 Subject: KnoppMythTV update In-Reply-To: <985622.62660.qm-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <985622.62660.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200701081128.34531.mervc@eol.ca> On Monday 08 January 2007 07:35, Colin McGregor wrote: > Late at night, I should have made it clear in my > message I was talking about KnoppMyth NOT MythTV. > MythTV has been at version 0.20 for a few months, and > now KnoppMyth, who's big focus is making MythTV a > painless install is up to Release 5 E50. The install > of MythTV version 0.20 a big selling point for the new > KnoppMyth R5E50... > > Sorry about any confusion I may have caused... > > Colin McGregor > Well I'll put in a little plug for MythDora which has been at .20 for some time and just moved up to the latest subversion of .20. I found it easier to set up than KnoppMyth and FC-5 for the base has been quite stable, which surprised me. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Linux Etch Desktop: KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.2.3 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 8 20:13:52 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 15:13:52 -0500 Subject: LCD TVs, computers, & linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070108201352.GE17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 06:06:06PM -0500, Alex Maynard wrote: > My wife and I have decided to finally splurge on a mid-sized flat screen > TV. I was hoping at some point in the future to be able to use it as an extra > large monitor now and then. I don't know that at all realistic. If it is, > does it matter at all which brand we get (we got a sony LCD but have 30 > days to return)? Also, are there special drivers or programs I would > need? Just thought I would see if any one has thoughts on this before our > 30 day return period is up. Well if it is HDTV (I would hope any new 30" is) and has DVI or HDMI input, then you should be able to drive it from almost any video card with a DVI connector, if you set the video card to the native resolution of the TV. So if the TV is 1920x1080, then you should be able to use that (I know most Nvidia cards since at least the 6xxx series can do that resolution on DVI), or if it is the lower res you could set it to 1280x720. If it is one of the currently very typical @#$#$ up TVs that use 1366x768 then I have no idea what to do. Those can't show any HDTV signal without scaling (which I consider a stupid design mistake). If it is not HDTV, then you should be able to run using svideo, composite or component (if your video card has that, my 6600gt does), at usually 800x600 resolution. DVI should work too I guess if the TV has that, although I have never seen a non HDTV that had DVI. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 8 20:27:50 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 15:27:50 -0500 Subject: need 128mb micro-dimm In-Reply-To: <45A181DB.2070103-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <45A181DB.2070103@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070108202750.GF17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 at 06:27:23PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Trying to refurbish a laptop that currently has 64mb of ram installed. > Apparently it takes 66mhz micro-dimm ram, the extra slot allowing for up > to 128mb in one stick. Does anyone have any extra that I could buy or > borrow (until the 1st of Feb.) ? So 66MHz PC66 SDRAM SODIMM? I don't have any, but at least knowing the proper name might help find one. On _most_ systems PC100 or PC133 will work too and might be easier to find, although there are some exceptions which do not like faster ram due to design errors. It appears that you can still buy PC100 128MB SODIMMs for about $60 or so. What brand/model is the laptop? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 8 20:31:54 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 15:31:54 -0500 Subject: Syncing PDA In-Reply-To: <20070106220429.GA5781-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070106220429.GA5781@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070108203154.GG17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 06, 2007 at 05:04:29PM -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > After our last discussion I took the plunge and bought a Palm Z22. I'm > having a heck of a time trying to sync it. I've loaded the visor and > usbserial kernel modules. When I attempt to have kpilot find the > device, which appears as /dev/pilot => /dev/ttyUSBx the PDA briefly > reports a sync but then goes quite. Kpilot report that it cannot find > the device. I see some errors in the kernel log files: > > usb 1-3.2: new full speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 39 > hub 1-3:1.0: Cannot enable port 2. Maybe the USB cable is bad? > hub 1-3:1.0: Cannot enable port 2. Maybe the USB cable is bad? > hub 1-3:1.0: Cannot enable port 2. Maybe the USB cable is bad? > hub 1-3:1.0: Cannot enable port 2. Maybe the USB cable is bad? > usb 1-3.2: new full speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 43 > usb 1-3.2: device descriptor read/64, error -110 > > After that the /dev/ttyUSBx files disappear and do not return even when > I attempt another sync. I've tried two different cables using both USB2 > and USB1 ports but the error persists. I'm using kernel 2.6.19.1 and > Debian Sarge. Which USB chipset do you have? I have seen at least 2.6.18 fail to run USB2 devices on some SIS chipsets, while if ehci-hcd module is unloaded (making it USB1 only) everything works fine (although at USB1 speeds of course). Might be related to your problem. Of course you probably also need much newer sync software for the pilot than comes with sarge. My tungsten E can't sync with sarge, although it seems to have better luck with what is coming in etch. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 8 20:50:57 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 15:50:57 -0500 Subject: Syncing PDA In-Reply-To: <20070108203154.GG17268-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070106220429.GA5781@watson-wilson.ca> <20070108203154.GG17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070108205057.GD30208@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 at 03:31:54PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >Which USB chipset do you have? I have seen at least 2.6.18 fail to run >USB2 devices on some SIS chipsets, while if ehci-hcd module is unloaded >(making it USB1 only) everything works fine (although at USB1 speeds of >course). Might be related to your problem. 02:04.0 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev 61) 02:04.1 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev 61) 02:04.2 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB 2.0 (rev 63) I've configured this into my kernel not as a module. A rebuild may be needed. >Of course you probably also need much newer sync software for the pilot >than comes with sarge. My tungsten E can't sync with sarge, although it >seems to have better luck with what is coming in etch. I can't recall which name is which version but I'm running Debian version 4.0 (testing). -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 1 day http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 8 21:06:08 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 16:06:08 -0500 Subject: need 128mb micro-dimm In-Reply-To: <20070108202750.GF17268-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <45A181DB.2070103@utoronto.ca> <20070108202750.GF17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420701081306i53169b4v7566a17be97d9d82@mail.gmail.com> > So 66MHz PC66 SDRAM SODIMM? I don't have any, but at least knowing the > proper name might help find one. Ordinarily, I wouldn't comment on something like this because I'm no hardware whiz, but I think there might be a difference between SODIMMs and Micro-DIMMs. (I only thought to look into this case because I happened to notice that a hardware store I frequent--http://infonec.com--sells both SODIMMs and Micro-DIMMs.) According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SO-DIMM) SODIMMs come in 72-, 100-, 144-, or 200-pin formats. Wikipedia doesn't seem to have an English article on Micro-DIMMs (there is a German one that I didn't try to read), but googling for Micro-DIMM returns lots of hits for places to buy memory in formats like 144-, 172-, and 214-pin. Also, this page http://www.infineon.com/cgi-bin/ifx/portal/ep/channelView.do?channelId=-64253&pageTypeId=17099 seems to suggest that Micro DIMMs are smaller than SODIMMs. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 8 21:24:15 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 16:24:15 -0500 Subject: Syncing PDA In-Reply-To: <20070108205057.GD30208-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070106220429.GA5781@watson-wilson.ca> <20070108203154.GG17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070108205057.GD30208@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070108212415.GH17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 at 03:50:57PM -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > 02:04.0 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 > Controller (rev 61) > 02:04.1 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 > Controller (rev 61) > 02:04.2 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB 2.0 (rev 63) > > I've configured this into my kernel not as a module. A rebuild may be > needed. Well I know USB2 works on nvidia, and doens't work on some SIS chipset. Not sure of the state of via USB controllers. Do you have any good reason for using your own kernel rather than one of the debian provided kernels (they work great for me on all my machines). > I can't recall which name is which version but I'm running Debian > version 4.0 (testing). That would be Etch. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 8 21:30:34 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 16:30:34 -0500 Subject: need 128mb micro-dimm In-Reply-To: <7ac602420701081306i53169b4v7566a17be97d9d82-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <45A181DB.2070103@utoronto.ca> <20070108202750.GF17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420701081306i53169b4v7566a17be97d9d82@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070108213034.GI17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 at 04:06:08PM -0500, Ian Petersen wrote: > Ordinarily, I wouldn't comment on something like this because I'm no > hardware whiz, but I think there might be a difference between SODIMMs > and Micro-DIMMs. (I only thought to look into this case because I > happened to notice that a hardware store I > frequent--http://infonec.com--sells both SODIMMs and Micro-DIMMs.) Hmm, in that case I have never heard of or seen a microdimm. Seems kingston has microdimm 144pin 128 and 256MB. Somewhat more expensive than SODIMM that is for sure. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 8 21:31:39 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 16:31:39 -0500 Subject: Syncing PDA In-Reply-To: <20070108212415.GH17268-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070106220429.GA5781@watson-wilson.ca> <20070108203154.GG17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070108205057.GD30208@watson-wilson.ca> <20070108212415.GH17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070108213139.GE30208@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 at 04:24:15PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >Do you have any good reason for using your own kernel rather than one of >the debian provided kernels (they work great for me on all my machines). I'm not sure if this is a good reasons but, I've been burned by initrd images in the past. If I compile what I need to boot into the kernel then initrd is a step I can happily skip. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 1 day http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 8 22:44:47 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 17:44:47 -0500 Subject: partimage and Windows XP Message-ID: <1f13df280701081444j274da4eamb3348d2e1b71c62c@mail.gmail.com> I recently purchased a 120Gb HD to replace the 40 Gb HD in my laptop. I have a multi-boot system on the 40Gb including XP, and I'm somewhat stumped as to how to clone a Windows partition from one drive to the other. Unfortunately, I don't have the ability to put both drives into a computer together, but I can boot with Knoppix or the Ultimate Boot CD and save partition images to an external USB HD. I booted the 40Gb HD with Ubuntu and used "partimage" to create gzipped partition images for both Fedora Core 5 and Windows XP on the USB HD. I put the 120Gb into the laptop, booted Knoppix, and used partimage to unpack both images - Windows onto hda1, the first primary partition (it's on hda2 on the old HD). FC5 went onto a logical partition. Both partitions were slightly larger than the original partitions. With a GRUB install and a bit of tweaking, FC5 booted fine. But attempting to boot XP got me the GRUB parameters on screen and a screeching halt. The partition is mountable and appears to have the expected files, but won't boot. I haven't done anything like this before, and I don't have access to any "professional" ghosting/imaging software (although there seem to be many free choices). partimage's NTFS support is considered "experimental," so perhaps it's not the best choice? Any recommendations, success stories, or information on details I'm missing? Thanks. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 8 23:20:34 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 18:20:34 -0500 Subject: OT: Test, please ignore Message-ID: <45A2D1C2.5020107@alteeve.com> for the curious, I am testing to make sure mailing list stuff gets through spamassassin on my mail server. Sorry for the line noise :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 8 23:29:18 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 18:29:18 -0500 Subject: Syncing PDA In-Reply-To: <20070108213139.GE30208-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070106220429.GA5781@watson-wilson.ca> <20070108203154.GG17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070108205057.GD30208@watson-wilson.ca> <20070108212415.GH17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070108213139.GE30208@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070108232918.GJ17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 at 04:31:39PM -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > I'm not sure if this is a good reasons but, I've been burned by initrd > images in the past. If I compile what I need to boot into the kernel > then initrd is a step I can happily skip. I have had enough wasted time caused by NOT using modules, so I now know better than to compile a kernel with everything I need built in and nothing else. I have had very few problems with initrd's, especially with initramfs on debian (as long as you never ever touch yaird, which just sucks). Being able to unload a module when you have a problem with it is worth a lot of time, easily a lot more than solving any initrd problem ever takes. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 8 23:32:00 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 18:32:00 -0500 Subject: partimage and Windows XP In-Reply-To: <1f13df280701081444j274da4eamb3348d2e1b71c62c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280701081444j274da4eamb3348d2e1b71c62c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070108233200.GK17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 at 05:44:47PM -0500, Giles Orr wrote: > I recently purchased a 120Gb HD to replace the 40 Gb HD in my laptop. > I have a multi-boot system on the 40Gb including XP, and I'm somewhat > stumped as to how to clone a Windows partition from one drive to the > other. Unfortunately, I don't have the ability to put both drives > into a computer together, but I can boot with Knoppix or the Ultimate > Boot CD and save partition images to an external USB HD. Well you could do a fresh install (windows needs that every 6 or 12 months to stay sane after all) and then get a usb case (about $25 will get you a nice one) for the old drive to copy over the data afterwards. > I booted the 40Gb HD with Ubuntu and used "partimage" to create > gzipped partition images for both Fedora Core 5 and Windows XP on the > USB HD. I put the 120Gb into the laptop, booted Knoppix, and used > partimage to unpack both images - Windows onto hda1, the first primary > partition (it's on hda2 on the old HD). FC5 went onto a logical > partition. Both partitions were slightly larger than the original > partitions. With a GRUB install and a bit of tweaking, FC5 booted > fine. But attempting to boot XP got me the GRUB parameters on screen > and a screeching halt. The partition is mountable and appears to have > the expected files, but won't boot. > > I haven't done anything like this before, and I don't have access to > any "professional" ghosting/imaging software (although there seem to > be many free choices). partimage's NTFS support is considered > "experimental," so perhaps it's not the best choice? Any > recommendations, success stories, or information on details I'm > missing? Thanks. I find the boot process and NTFS too fragile to ever attempt any kind of clever transfers. It really does sound like a good time for a refresh. :) My wife just did that on her laptop with a new 120GB drive replacing a 60GB. Windows seems much faster after a fresh install on the new drive, and if anything went wrong her old drive was always able to be put back in the laptop in under 5 minutes. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 8 23:57:39 2007 From: right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org (Amos H. Weatherill) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 18:57:39 -0500 Subject: partimage and Windows XP In-Reply-To: <1f13df280701081444j274da4eamb3348d2e1b71c62c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280701081444j274da4eamb3348d2e1b71c62c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello, All. I recently purchased a 120Gb HD to replace the 40 Gb HD in my laptop. I have a multi-boot system on the 40Gb including XP, and I'm somewhat stumped as to how to clone a Windows partition from one drive to the other. Unfortunately, I don't have the ability to put both drives into a computer together, but I can boot with Knoppix or the Ultimate Boot CD and save partition images to an external USB HD. I booted the 40Gb HD with Ubuntu and used "partimage" to create gzipped partition images for both Fedora Core 5 and Windows XP on the USB HD. I put the 120Gb into the laptop, booted Knoppix, and used partimage to unpack both images - Windows onto hda1, the first primary partition (it's on hda2 on the old HD). FC5 went onto a logical partition. Both partitions were slightly larger than the original partitions. With a GRUB install and a bit of tweaking, FC5 booted fine. But attempting to boot XP got me the GRUB parameters on screen and a screeching halt. The partition is mountable and appears to have the expected files, but won't boot. This is a problem that I know about. Your XP won't boot on the new drive because you didn't make the WinXP partition hda2 like it was on the old HD. Boot into Knoppix and mount the WinXP partition, then edit the file called boot.ini. You need to look at the string that tells WinXP where to find its system partition. The file will look something like this : [boot loader] timeout=30 default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT [operating systems] multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional" /fastdetect The lines that you need to modify are the 3rd and 5th in the above example. The operative part is the 'partition(1)' part of the lines. Your file probably has 'partition(2)' in it. This is why Windows can't boot off the new HD. Change the lines to 'partition(1)' and it should work. Don't forget to save the file as an MS-DOS ASCII text file or windows won't understand it. If you have any problems with this, my E-Mail address is 'right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org' and my telephone # is 416-441-3453. Signed. Amos H. Weatherill. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 9 00:01:27 2007 From: right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org (Amos H. Weatherill) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 19:01:27 -0500 Subject: partimage and Windows XP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry about the sloppy format of my last message. I wanted to see if my E-Mail Client is properly configured for Replying to messages. Apparently it isn't. Signed. Amos H. Weatherill. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 9 11:36:33 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 06:36:33 -0500 Subject: Help turning old hardware into a firewall In-Reply-To: <7ac602420701031129r53ce9469v649497ec2db71317-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420701021253o2c0d6107rc676d0ab0c27a6fd@mail.gmail.com> <459AE46B.4090203@pppoe.ca> <7ac602420701031129r53ce9469v649497ec2db71317@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45A37E41.5030608@pppoe.ca> Ian Petersen wrote: >> If you want a couple of old NICs, I can bring them to the next meeting >> on January 9. >> If you have an old hard drive that you want to trade, that'll be great. >> If you don't, you still can have the NICs :-) . >> Just tell me if you want them, that way I'll know. > > > Thank you for the offer, Meng. > > Hugh's link led me to learn several new things: > > - I already have the latest BIOS > - a newer BIOS, if it were available, probably couldn't > make the motherboard PCI 2.2 compatible--it appears > to be a function of the chipset, which in my case > is Intel's 440LX > > So, I'd like to trade with you. Perhaps you could reply to me > off-list with some more details about what you're looking for? I have > a 4GB drive from about 1997 that I could easily part with, and there > might be something else lying around, if that's not what you're > looking for. > > Ian > Ian I'm bringing the NICs to the meeting tonight. To make it easier to recognize me, I'm Chinese, with glasses and will be wearing a green baseball cap :-) Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 9 12:39:26 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 07:39:26 -0500 Subject: Help turning old hardware into a firewall In-Reply-To: <45A37E41.5030608-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420701021253o2c0d6107rc676d0ab0c27a6fd@mail.gmail.com> <459AE46B.4090203@pppoe.ca> <7ac602420701031129r53ce9469v649497ec2db71317@mail.gmail.com> <45A37E41.5030608@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <45A38CFE.5020007@rogers.com> Meng Cheah wrote: > > > I'm bringing the NICs to the meeting tonight. > To make it easier to recognize me, I'm Chinese, with glasses and will > be wearing a green baseball cap :-) > You've just described half the geeks in the city! ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 9 16:45:00 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:45:00 -0500 Subject: Help turning old hardware into a firewall In-Reply-To: <45A37E41.5030608-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420701021253o2c0d6107rc676d0ab0c27a6fd@mail.gmail.com> <459AE46B.4090203@pppoe.ca> <7ac602420701031129r53ce9469v649497ec2db71317@mail.gmail.com> <45A37E41.5030608@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <20070109164500.GL17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 06:36:33AM -0500, Meng Cheah wrote: > I'm bringing the NICs to the meeting tonight. > To make it easier to recognize me, I'm Chinese, with glasses and will be > wearing a green baseball cap :-) Well I doubt anyone looking at the card can tell if it requires 3.3V and they can't tell by looking at the motherboard if it provides it either. However if the packaging says it must have PCI2.2, well your board certainly isn't, so the reason for requiring PCI2.2 may be why it doesn't work. Did you ever try the cards in any other machines? I also haven't ever been to any of the meetings yet. I am always busy tuesday evenings, and they are usually downtown, which is a place I try to avoid going. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 9 17:04:14 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:03:14 +1859 Subject: Help turning old hardware into a firewall In-Reply-To: <20070109164500.GL17268-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420701021253o2c0d6107rc676d0ab0c27a6fd@mail.gmail.com> <459AE46B.4090203@pppoe.ca> <7ac602420701031129r53ce9469v649497ec2db71317@mail.gmail.com> <45A37E41.5030608@pppoe.ca> <20070109164500.GL17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420701090904y536defa7p4203d6df60df9720@mail.gmail.com> > Did you ever try the cards in any other machines? Nope. There's no other machine around here that would be suitable as a firewall. I suppose there's a chance both cards could be DOA, but I figured that chance was smaller than the chance of hardware compatibility problems, considering the motherboard is nearly a decade old. Also, I did try reordering the cards in the available PCI slots, to no avail. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 5 13:37:10 2007 From: lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org (Oliver Meyn) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 08:37:10 -0500 Subject: Taking the PDA plunge In-Reply-To: <200701041714.l04HE7Ni012080-bi+AKbBUZKYsbE7Vo+MiNSGuMlDgniV8mpATvIKMPHk@public.gmane.org> References: <200701041714.l04HE7Ni012080@localhost.generalconcepts.com> Message-ID: <459E5486.1010600@mineallmeyn.com> John Sellens wrote: > I also use a Palm T|X that I ebay'd reconditioned and I'm quite > happy with it. Big screen, wifi, bluetooth, pictures, mp3s. > I sync over wifi to jpilot on freebsd. I'm a happy camper. > In general when you guys are talking about wifi, are you talking about WPA or just WEP? I'm keen on getting a pda that can double as a "universal remote" over wifi, but finding out details like WPA support + linux sync support is difficult (is WPA part of the 802.11g spec?). Thanks, Oliver -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 9 17:59:28 2007 From: Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:59:28 -0500 Subject: Taking the PDA plunge In-Reply-To: <459E5486.1010600-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g@public.gmane.org> References: <459E5486.1010600@mineallmeyn.com> Message-ID: PiANCj4gSW4gZ2VuZXJhbCB3aGVuIHlvdSBndXlzIGFyZSB0YWxraW5nIGFib3V0IHdpZmksIGFy ZSB5b3UgdGFsa2luZyBhYm91dCANCj4gV1BBIG9yIGp1c3QgV0VQPyAgSSdtIGtlZW4gb24gZ2V0 dGluZyBhIHBkYSB0aGF0IGNhbiBkb3VibGUgYXMgYSANCj4gInVuaXZlcnNhbCByZW1vdGUiIG92 ZXIgd2lmaSwgYnV0IGZpbmRpbmcgb3V0IGRldGFpbHMgbGlrZSBXUEEgc3VwcG9ydCArIA0KDQo+ IGxpbnV4IHN5bmMgc3VwcG9ydCBpcyBkaWZmaWN1bHQgKGlzIFdQQSBwYXJ0IG9mIHRoZSA4MDIu MTFnIHNwZWM/KS4NCj4gDQo+IFRoYW5rcywNCg0KDQpCYXNpYyBXUEEgaXMgaW5jbHVkZWQsIGJ1 dCB0aGVyZSBpcyBhbiBlbnRlcnByaXNlIHVwZGF0ZSBhdmFpbGFibGUgZm9yIA0KJDUuOTkgVVMN Cg0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy5wYWxtLmNvbS91cy9zb2Z0d2FyZS9lc3UvDQoNCi0tc25pcC0tDQoNCiJF U1UgYWRkcyBlbmhhbmNlZCBhdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgc2VjdXJlIGVuY3J5cHRpb24tYWxs IGluIGEgc2luZ2xlIA0KZG93bmxvYWQuIEVTVSANCnN1cHBvcnRzIG11dHVhbCBhdXRoZW50aWNh dGlvbiBwcm90b2NvbHMsIGluY2x1ZGluZyBFQVAtVExTLCBFQVAtVFRMUywgDQpFQVAtUEVBUCwg YW5kIA0KTEVBUCwgYXMgd2VsbCBhcyBzZXBhcmF0ZSBSQURJVVMgc2VydmVyIHByb3RvY29scy4g U3VwcG9ydGVkIGVuY3J5cHRpb24gDQptZXRob2RzIGluY2x1ZGUgDQpXRVAsIFRLSVAsIGFuZCBB RVMtQ0NNUC4gRVNVIG9mZmVycyBXUEEgRW50ZXJwcmlzZSBhbmQgV1BBMiBFbnRlcnByaXNlIA0K c2VjdXJpdHkgDQptZXRob2RzLCBhbmQgaW5jbHVkZXMgdGhlIFdpLUZpIHNlY3VyaXR5LCBXRVAg YW5kIFdQQSBQZXJzb25hbCAoUFNLKSANCnR5cGljYWxseSB1c2VkIGZvcg0KaG9tZSBhbmQgU09I TyBuZXR3b3Jrcy4iDQoNCi0tc25pcC0NCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KDQpKYXNv biBTaGVpbg0KTmV0d29yayBBZG1pbmlzdHJhdG9yIOKAkyBMaW51eCBTeXN0ZW1zDQpJb3ZhdGUg SGVhbHRoIFNjaWVuY2VzIEluYy4NCjUxMDAgU3BlY3RydW0gV2F5DQpNaXNzaXNzYXVnYSwgT04g TDRXIDVTMiANCiggOTA1ICkgLSA2NzggLSAzMTE5ICAgeCAzMTM2DQoxIC0gODg4IC0gMzM0IC0g NDQ0OCwgICAgeCAzMTM2ICh0b2xsLWZyZWUpDQpqYXNvbi5zaGVpbkBpb3ZhdGUuY29tIA0KDQpD dXN0b21lciBTZXJ2aWNlLiBDb2xsYWJvcmF0aW9uLiBJbm5vdmF0aW9uLiBFZmZpY2llbmN5LiAN CklvdmF0ZSdzIEluZm9ybWF0aW9uIFRlY2hub2xvZ3kgVGVhbSANCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fXw0KDQpDT05GSURFTlRJQUxJVFkgTk9USUNFOiANClRISVMgRUxFQ1RST05JQyBNQUlM IFRSQU5TTUlTU0lPTiBJUyBQUklWSUxFR0VEIEFORCBDT05GSURFTlRJQUwgQU5EIElTDQpJTlRF TkRFRCBPTkxZIEZPUiBUSEUgUkVWSUVXIE9GIFRIRSBQQVJUWSBUTyBXSE9NIElUIElTIEFERFJF U1NFRC4gDQpUSEUgSU5GT1JNQVRJT04gQ09OVEFJTkVEIElOIFRISVMgRS1NQUlMIElTIENPTkZJ REVOVElBTCBBTkQgSVMgRElTQ0xPU0VEDQpUTyBZT1UgVU5ERVIgVEhFIEVYUFJFU1MgVU5ERVJT VEFORElORyBUSEFUIFlPVSBXSUxMIE5PVCBESVNDTE9TRSBJVA0KT1IgSVRTIENPTlRFTlRTIFRP IEFOWSBUSElSRCBQQVJUWSBXSVRIT1VUIFRIRSBFWFBSRVNTIFdSSVRURU4gQ09OU0VOVA0KT0Yg QU4gQVVUSE9SSVpFRCBPRkZJQ0VSIE9GIElPVkFURSBIRUFMVEggU0NJRU5DRVMgU0VSVklDRVMg SU5DLiBJRiBZT1UgDQpIQVZFDQpSRUNFSVZFRCBUSElTIFRSQU5TTUlTU0lPTiBJTiBFUlJPUiwg UExFQVNFIElNTUVESUFURUxZIFJFVFVSTiBJVCANClRPIFRIRSBTRU5ERVIuDQpfX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fDQoNCg0K -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 9 14:08:13 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 09:08:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Why english is important Message-ID: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> If you are going to write phishing emails, it's *really* important to get the english language correct. For example: ---------------------------- Subject: Accounts Suspension Warning ID#### From: "services-HC00ipvQh1TgdWPOfyH0ygC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org" Date: Fri, January #, #### #:## am To: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ paypal Dear valued PayPal member, It has come to our attention that your billing information are out of order . ^^^ If you could please take #-## minutes out of your online experience and update your personal records so you will not run into any future problems with the online service. However, any failure in updating your records will result in account suspension . Please update your records now. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Not bad for some non-english speaking creeps working in a basement somewhere. I wonder how long it will take them before their english is perfect? -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 9 19:03:33 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:03:33 -0600 Subject: Why english is important In-Reply-To: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990701091103w17e3472at3c77de0fed164037@mail.gmail.com> On 1/9/07, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > If you are going to write phishing emails, it's *really* important to get > the english language correct. For example: I've seen some truly hilarious spam messages.. but what boggles the mind is that it appears that perfect English might not be as important as you and I would think. I'm in the midst of reading a book, and if I were a copyeditor of some sort, I'd have hung myself in protest. But it got published nontheless.. =/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 9 19:26:12 2007 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 14:26:12 -0500 Subject: Taking the PDA plunge In-Reply-To: References: <459E5486.1010600@mineallmeyn.com> Message-ID: I think WPA is designed as an interim solution for WEP's shortcomings that is theoretically supportable on all wireless hardware. Also for a while now, anything that is wifi certified must support WPA.. The only catch, really, is driver support on Linux in unsupported configurations (like familiar - you would need to investigate this) On the 770, WPA2 works fine, but be aware that not all of the code in the OS is libre. On 1/9/07, Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org wrote: > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 9 20:41:09 2007 From: right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org (Amos H. Weatherill) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 15:41:09 -0500 Subject: [OT] FW: Fraud alert from Minister of Finance Message-ID: Hello, Everyone. This is completely off topic for this list but given the subject matter I thought people wouldn't mind. Signed. Amos H. Weatherill >If you click on the web address below it displays the notice the government >has posted on their website regarding the current tax refund fraud sceme. > > > http://www.fin.gc.ca/fraud_e.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 9 21:53:13 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:53:13 -0500 Subject: a script for managing locations -- improve it? Message-ID: <1168379593.26211.41.camel@localhost> Hi, I just wrote a silly little script to help me manage my laptop locaitons. Nothing else I'd tried was really working for me. Anyway, it works well for me, but I'd like to get it to a stage where it can be used by other people... except that I really have to stop fooling around and do some work. So I thought I'd just post it here and see if anyone finds it useful/has ideas to make it better. THis is it -- I call it set_locations.py and run it as root... It basically assumes you're using postfix and cupsys, but I hope it could be modified to be more ecumenical #!/usr/bin/python import sys, os # define the relevant system calls NMINIT="/etc/dbus-1/event.d/25NetworkManager " SENDMAIL="postfix" PRINTCONF="lpoptions -d " # haven't tested vpn VPN="/etc/init.d/openvpn " class Location (object): """ THe class is the main object type in our little script """ def __init__ (self, attributes, name): #print attributes self.controlled_ifaces=attributes['controlled_ifaces'] self.nmstatus=attributes['nmstatus'] self.smtphost=attributes['smtphost'] self.defaultprinter=attributes['defaultprinter'] self.vpn=attributes['vpn'] ## print x,v ## self[x.__str__()]=v self.name=name #print dir(self) # locations have a bunch of attributes. You should define your own # based on the examples below home=Location({ 'controlled_ifaces' : {'eth0' : "", 'eth1' : "" }, 'defaultprinter' : "HL-1440", 'nmstatus' : 1, 'vpn' : 0, 'smtphost' : "smtp.broadband.rogers.com", 'name' : 'home' }, 'home') linuxcaffe=Location({ 'controlled_ifaces' : {'eth0' : "", 'eth1' : "" }, 'defaultprinter' : "HL-1440", 'nmstatus' : 1, 'vpn' : 0, 'smtphost' : "", 'name' : 'linuxcaffe' }, 'linuxcaffe') utor=Location({ 'controlled_ifaces' : {'eth0' : "utor", 'eth1' : "" }, 'defaultprinter' : "SAMBA", 'nmstatus' : 0, 'vpn' : 0, 'smtphost' : "postoffice126.utcc.utoronto.ca", 'name' : 'utor' }, 'utor') utorwireless=Location({ 'controlled_ifaces' : {'eth0 ' : "", 'eth1' : "" }, 'defaultprinter' : "SAMBA", 'nmstatus' : 1, 'vpn' : 0, 'smtphost' : "postoffice126.utcc.utoronto.ca", 'name' : 'utorwireless' }, 'utorwireless') roaming=Location({ 'controlled_ifaces' : {'eth0 ' : "", 'eth1' : "" }, 'defaultprinter' : "SAMBA", 'nmstatus' : 1, 'vpn' : 0, 'smtphost' : "postoffice126.utcc.utoronto.ca", 'name' : 'roaming' }, 'roaming') DefaultLocation=home def SetLocation (location): print "Using Location " + location.name # bring down all ifaces print "bringing down old interfaces" os.system(NMINIT + " stop") os.system("ifdown eth1") os.system("ifdown eth0") # bring network services back up print "bringing up network interfaces" for iface,name in location.controlled_ifaces.items(): #print iface, name if name: print "making the system call" cmd="ifup "+ iface + "=" + name print "cmd: ", cmd # problem here: if the value is wrong # the process stalls # needs a timeout control os.system("ifup "+ iface + "=" + name) if location.nmstatus: print "bringing up network-manager" os.system(NMINIT + " start") # reset postfix and printer if location.smtphost: print "Changing SMTP host..." if SENDMAIL=="postfix": os.system("postconf -e relayhost=" + location.smtphost) os.system("/etc/init.d/postfix restart") # reset default printer if location.defaultprinter: print "Resetting default printer" if PRINTCONF=="lpoptions -d ": os.system(PRINTCONF + location.defaultprinter) if location.vpn: os.system(VPN + " start") else: os.system(VPN + " stop") if __name__ == "__main__": if len(sys.argv)>1: # stupid brute-force method, I hate that import gc for obj in gc.get_objects(): if isinstance(obj, Location): #print obj.name if obj.name==sys.argv[1]: SetLocation(obj) #SetLocation(sys.argv[1]) else: SetLocation(DefaultLocation) -------------------- have fun, matt -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 01:48:17 2007 From: slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slackrat) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 02:48:17 +0100 Subject: Gnus Gurus? X-Guarantee headers Message-ID: <87irffslcu.fsf@azurservers.com> The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to gnu.emacs.gnus as well. Since upgrading my gnus my X-Guarantee headers are being displayed in reverse order See Full Headers This message was prepared with them thusly: (setq gnus-posting-styles '((".*" ;; BASIC ;; ##### (signature-file "~/.signature/bill") (name mail-user-name) (address "inconnu-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org") ("X-Homepage" "http://azurservers.com/") ("X-Operating-System" "Slackware GNU/Linux --current");; ("X-GUARANTEE4" "harmful content should be reported to abuse-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org") ("X-GUARANTEE3" "Azurservers.com publishes SPF records and any spam or otherwise") ("X-GUARANTEE2" "content or attachments when sent from @azurservers.com.") ("X-GUARANTEE1" "This email is Guaranteed to have been free of any malevolent") (organization "Front National [http://www.frontnational.com]")) I changed the order to the 4-3-2-1 indicated above upon noticing the problem when they had been a more rational 1-2-3-4 hoping they would be displayed correctly However, regardless of the order in the gnus.el file, they always appear as they are in the the headers to this message The solution of course is to move the text 1<-->4 and 2<-->3 But does anbody know why they would be ranked this way in Emacs/Gnus 22? -- Regards, Slackrat [Bill Henderson] [No _4Q_ for direct email] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 03:50:19 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:50:19 -0500 Subject: Why english is important In-Reply-To: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <45A4627B.7060905@pppoe.ca> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >If you are going to write phishing emails, it's *really* important to get >the english language correct. For example: > > >---------------------------- >Subject: Accounts Suspension Warning ID#### >From: "services-HC00ipvQh1TgdWPOfyH0ygC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org" >Date: Fri, January #, #### #:## am >To: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > paypal Dear valued PayPal member, It has come to our attention >that your billing information are out of order . > ^^^ >If you could please take #-## minutes out of your online experience and >update your personal records so you will not run into any future problems >with the online service. However, any failure in updating your >records will result in account suspension . Please update your >records now. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Not bad for some non-english speaking creeps working in a basement >somewhere. I wonder how long it will take them before their english is >perfect? > > > > I agree that correct usage of English is important to maximize the number of victims, but how many potential victims are university professors? Like Sy says, books have editors and even then errata. I would not assume that the author(s) are "some non-english [/sic/] speaking creeps in a basement somewhere." although that might be the case :-) . Regards Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 14:14:41 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:14:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [OT]TV recording for tomorrow January 10 @ 8PM In-Reply-To: <18344.1168411692-L9i2b+zLJ9LIrURfT66hzQ@public.gmane.org> References: <18344.1168411692@frauerpower.com> Message-ID: <20070110141442.67209.qmail@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Leah Kubik wrote: > Sorry for the late notice, but it turns out the > episode that I had previously asked if anyone could > record turned out to be on January 10th, tomorrow. > If anyone at all reads this and has sympathy on me, > I would really appreciate it if you could record the > following episode tomorrow evening, based on an > email I got from the producer: > > > The Workspace S.O.S. episode, featuring you, will > be on the Workopolis tv show that airs on January > 10th. > > > > That's on Report on Business Television, between 8 > and 8:30 pm." > > Thanks very much, and let me know if you need any > other info. I've set my MythTV box to record the show. So barring strangeness (say a power failure) I will have it recorded tonight. Question is what would be best for you to see the show after, and I am open to suggestions (last weekend I bought a DVD burner, but I am still sorting out issues with burning DVDs that can play in "normal" DVD players...). Colin McGregor > Leah > > ---- This message was sent via a demo version of - http://atmail.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 14:18:43 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:18:43 -0500 Subject: [OT]TV recording for tomorrow January 10 @ 8PM In-Reply-To: <20070110141442.67209.qmail-PUkK9LDfIAyB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <18344.1168411692@frauerpower.com> <20070110141442.67209.qmail@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070110141843.GM17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 09:14:41AM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > I've set my MythTV box to record the show. So barring > strangeness (say a power failure) I will have it > recorded tonight. Question is what would be best for > you to see the show after, and I am open to > suggestions (last weekend I bought a DVD burner, but I > am still sorting out issues with burning DVDs that can > play in "normal" DVD players...). I find 'mytharchive' does a wonderful job. The interface might be a little odd, but works great. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 15:47:22 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:47:22 -0500 Subject: nouveau driver pledge drive Message-ID: <1168444042.26211.50.camel@localhost> hi folks, hope this doesn't seem like spam. I just signed the pledgebank drive for the nouveau driver project -- it seemed like something tlug'ers might also be interested in. a 3d opensource driver for nvidia would solve a lot problems for a lot of laptop users... matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From leah-L9i2b+zLJ9LIrURfT66hzQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 06:48:12 2007 From: leah-L9i2b+zLJ9LIrURfT66hzQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Kubik) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 01:48:12 -0500 Subject: [OT]TV recording for tomorrow January 10 @ 8PM Message-ID: <18344.1168411692@frauerpower.com> Sorry for the late notice, but it turns out the episode that I had previously asked if anyone could record turned out to be on January 10th, tomorrow. If anyone at all reads this and has sympathy on me, I would really appreciate it if you could record the following episode tomorrow evening, based on an email I got from the producer: > The Workspace S.O.S. episode, featuring you, will be on the Workopolis tv show that airs on January 10th. > > That's on Report on Business Television, between 8 and 8:30 pm." Thanks very much, and let me know if you need any other info. Leah ---- This message was sent via a demo version of - http://atmail.com/-- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 19:21:25 2007 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 10 Jan 2007 14:21:25 -0500 Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alex Maynard writes: > > so my extended family are all videoconferencing with skype now. I went > > through some efforts to get skype 1.3 working on my ubuntu laptop (dell > > latitude d820, some futzy audio settings), only to discover that the > > linux version has no video!!! > > I just bought a dell laptop running ubuntu and am having a bit of trouble > getting skype working. I wasn't going to bother the list with questions, > but if you can share any details of how you got it working that could > really help a lot. For the latest ubuntu, I just installed easyubuntu and had it configure the sources.list file and and install things like skype for me (it also installs a lot of other useful multimedia packages that can't be distributed by ubuntu). HTH, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 17:39:06 2007 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:39:06 -0500 Subject: (k)ubuntu: howto prevent lp module from loading at boot? In-Reply-To: <1168444042.26211.50.camel@localhost> References: <1168444042.26211.50.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <45A524BA.2040706@buynet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I need to prevent the lp module from automatically loading at boot up on a kubuntu *1 workstation (so that a vmware *2 guest os can access "lpt1") I've tried editing the /etc/modules (I assume that the new modules.conf or conf.modules) and/or /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist dmesg shows a lot of lines like: [ 3742.434891] parport0: no more devices allowed [ 3742.435316] ppdev0: failed to register device! [ 3742.666942] parport0: no more devices allowed [ 3742.666947] ppdev0: failed to register device! [ 3742.666980] ppdev0: claim the port first [ 3805.511264] parport0: no more devices allowed I suspect that some other module or daemon such as cupsys or "HP Linux Imaging and Printing" hplip is (re)loading lp. To manually "rmmod lp" works but this is not an option for the particular user. Should I be looking at adding this to one of the init scripts (if so which one? ) ...I would rather not be adding a "sudo" to a user vmware launcher like /usr/bin/vmware. TIA, Herb Richter *1 kubuntu-6.06.1-desktop-i386 *2 VMware-workstation-5.5.1-19175 .. 2.6.15-27-386 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFpSS6U+pQaeEFGGARAmIXAJ0ST2DkmbdLUgHEsNSMGfm6C7JTJgCdE12h 2z7IfKaUMbuhbczjFcKCcV4= =3sP8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 20:11:47 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:11:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Why english is important References: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: writes: > If you are going to write phishing emails, it's *really* important to get > the english language correct. For example: Grin. I find this amusing. Next, people will expect burglars to be polite and wipe their feet when they enter and sweep out the broken glass so nobody steps in it. These are phishers. They are the bad guys. If they could spell or find the spell checker setting in their email composer then they would likely do something more legal than phishing for a living. All your base is mine is amusing for a reason imho. Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 20:30:52 2007 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:30:52 -0500 Subject: Why english is important In-Reply-To: References: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On 1/10/07, Peter P. wrote: > Grin. I find this amusing. Next, people will expect burglars to be polite and > wipe their feet when they enter and sweep out the broken glass so nobody steps > in it. These are phishers. They are the bad guys. If they could spell or find > the spell checker setting in their email composer then they would likely do > something more legal than phishing for a living. All your base is mine is > amusing for a reason imho. That's not the point - the reason it's important is because for phishers, good grammar is a valuable job skill, since they're impersonating organizations that are capable of communicating in fluent English. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 20:41:47 2007 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:41:47 -0500 Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The only multimedia package that can't be distributed by Ubuntu is w32codecs, and you can find and download it in less time than using one of these scripts. Everything else is in the official multiverse repositories, except for Skype, which I don't think is needed. Back when I first started with Ubuntu, I spent a lot of time figuring out how to write /etc/asound.conf so I could use Skype with my usb audio (in a webcam), and Skype's Linux audio wasn't just limited, it was broken (per-call file handle leak). If I knew I could have used Windows messenger and Ekiga (then called Gnomemeeting), I would never have touched Skype. My belief now is that it's completely unneeded as well, unless you're behind an extremely restrictive firewall, and SIP isn't working for you. I frown on using scripts to automate installation of extra packages - one only has to look at the wiki to know what to install by hand. Basically, a couple of gstreamer metapackages, libxine-extracodecs, flashplugin-nonfree, and then download and install w32codecs, and run /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/install-css.sh. Also useful is ffmpeg2theora for transcoding :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 20:52:25 2007 From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Matt) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:52:25 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource Message-ID: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> **WARNING-n00b ALERT** I've been dabbling in Linux over the last few years, and lately it has become apparent that my lack of programming/scripting knowledge is going to be a problem sooner or later, especially after Leah's excellent session on LDAP last night. However, I suck at debugging - I can handle tracking down silly mistakes like missing semicolons and the like, but when it comes to hardcore debugging, I'm usually up the proverbial creek. So, I have two questions: 1) What language should I look at learning/relearning? I'm thinking Perl, since I've done some before, though it's been a while 2) Does anyone know a good resource for n00bs to teach themselves? Thanks! Matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 21:00:02 2007 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:00:02 -0500 Subject: (k)ubuntu: howto prevent lp module from loading at boot? In-Reply-To: <45A524BA.2040706-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1168444042.26211.50.camel@localhost> <45A524BA.2040706@buynet.com> Message-ID: make sure you both remove it from /etc/modules and add a line like blacklist lp to /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist. You probably already knew this. If you want to run a command at boot, the easiest way is to run sudo crontab -e and then add a line like @reboot rmmod lp I'm not sure when that gets run, in relation to when your lp module gets loaded, but adding an rmmod at boot is definitely a hack anyway, so if it doesn't work, you can surely find a better way. I use cron to cap my CPU's speed at boot time, cause otherwise it will overheat and shut off, and I haven't tried blasting the insides with canned air yet :( In fact, if your problem is cups or hplip, and you aren't printing from that VM, just run for each script in hplip cupsys; do update-rc.d -f $script remove; done This will stop those services from running, and hopefully that will stop lp from loading. Keep in mind that you will still need to comment out lp in /etc/modules if you haven't. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 21:11:38 2007 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 10 Jan 2007 16:11:38 -0500 Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Simon writes: > one of these scripts. Everything else is in the official multiverse > repositories, except for Skype, which I don't think is needed. Back It is needed if employers and clients insist on using it ;) > I frown on using scripts to automate installation of extra packages - > one only has to look at the wiki to know what to install by hand. > Basically, a couple of gstreamer metapackages, libxine-extracodecs, > flashplugin-nonfree, and then download and install w32codecs, and run > /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/install-css.sh. Also useful is > ffmpeg2theora for transcoding :) > The only multimedia package that can't be distributed by Ubuntu is > w32codecs, and you can find and download it in less time than using Hmm: apt-get install easyubuntu easyubuntu seems like less time than doing by hand all of what you described :-D It'll also set up flash/java plugins, MIDI, more fonts (including the evil empire's), Nvidia/ATI closed drivers, ... Anywho, none of these are used for work so I'd probably never get around to installing them by hand (did it once, wasn't so much fun that I felt the need to do it again) if I hadn't found easyubuntu. TTYL, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 21:38:44 2007 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:38:44 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <1168462346.5512.16.camel-MHfmINoX7LZneC+ehBVEG2Xnswh1EIUO@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> Message-ID: <200701101638.45110.ican@netrover.com> Not for Perl, but for general C, Tcl/Tk and Bash Linux programming you might try my nofee online courses at: http://www.icanprogram.com/09tk/main.html and http://www.icanprogram.com/43ux/main.html All it will cost you is a voluntary contribution to Cancer research. bob On Wednesday 10 January 2007 03:52 pm, Matt wrote: > **WARNING-n00b ALERT** > I've been dabbling in Linux over the last few years, and lately it has > become apparent that my lack of programming/scripting knowledge is going > to be a problem sooner or later, especially after Leah's excellent > session on LDAP last night. However, I suck at debugging - I can handle > tracking down silly mistakes like missing semicolons and the like, but > when it comes to hardcore debugging, I'm usually up the proverbial > creek. > > So, I have two questions: > 1) What language should I look at learning/relearning? I'm thinking > Perl, since I've done some before, though it's been a while > 2) Does anyone know a good resource for n00bs to teach themselves? > > Thanks! > Matt > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 22:00:50 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:00:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <60938.69.157.194.50.1168466450.squirrel@secure.starnix.com> > Simon writes: >> one of these scripts. Everything else is in the official multiverse >> repositories, except for Skype, which I don't think is needed. Back > > It is needed if employers and clients insist on using it ;) True, but little of this technology is old enough to have established a huge amount of negative inertia. If there are better alternatives, the user base is not yet that entrenched to make moving impossible. (As the user base for these services is -- almost by definition -- bleeding edge early adopters, they can be more easily turned to something better. Having said that, it's yet to be established that the alternatives are superior beyond being more free. There are some wierd things about the Gizmo Project, for instance, that make it a less attractive alternative than it might otherwise be.) >> I frown on using scripts to automate installation of extra packages - I agree. It seems that all that easyubuntu does is temporarily add entries to your sources.list file, runs apt-get, and then reverts to your original file, all with a pretty new interface. As it's simply a second interface to augment synaptic or adept, I find that easyubuntu adds complexity rather than simplicity. Furthermore, updates of Easyubuntu-sourced packages require a two-step process; you need to upgrade easyubuntu *then* re-run it to upgrade its packages. I also notice that if you're using Kubuntu, installing easyubuntu forced the auxilliary install of a bunch of GNOME cruft My preference is just to add appropriate entries to my sources.list file; I find http://www.ubuntu-nl.org/source-o-matic/ extremely useful in this regard. Just do it once after system installation, then the "litigious" stuff installs (and updates) in the same manner as everything else. And, BTW, there are quite a few available "litigious" packages provided by groups such as the PLF. Here's a listing of what the PLF makes available for Mandriva: http://distrib-coffee.ipsl.jussieu.fr/pub/linux/plf/mandriva/non-free/10.2/i586/ Some of its entries are otherwise-free packages (such as xmms) that have extra support for non-free components added. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 22:00:53 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:00:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <60944.69.157.194.50.1168466453.squirrel@secure.starnix.com> > Simon writes: >> one of these scripts. Everything else is in the official multiverse >> repositories, except for Skype, which I don't think is needed. Back > > It is needed if employers and clients insist on using it ;) True, but little of this technology is old enough to have established a huge amount of negative inertia. If there are better alternatives, the user base is not yet that entrenched to make moving impossible. (As the user base for these services is -- almost by definition -- bleeding edge early adopters, they can be more easily turned to something better. Having said that, it's yet to be established that the alternatives are superior beyond being more free. There are some wierd things about the Gizmo Project, for instance, that make it a less attractive alternative than it might otherwise be.) >> I frown on using scripts to automate installation of extra packages - I agree. It seems that all that easyubuntu does is temporarily add entries to your sources.list file, runs apt-get, and then reverts to your original file, all with a pretty new interface. As it's simply a second interface to augment synaptic or adept, I find that easyubuntu adds complexity rather than simplicity. Furthermore, updates of Easyubuntu-sourced packages require a two-step process; you need to upgrade easyubuntu *then* re-run it to upgrade its packages. I also notice that if you're using Kubuntu, installing easyubuntu forced the auxilliary install of a bunch of GNOME cruft My preference is just to add appropriate entries to my sources.list file; I find http://www.ubuntu-nl.org/source-o-matic/ extremely useful in this regard. Just do it once after system installation, then the "litigious" stuff installs (and updates) in the same manner as everything else. And, BTW, there are quite a few available "litigious" packages provided by groups such as the PLF. Here's a listing of what the PLF makes available for Mandriva: http://distrib-coffee.ipsl.jussieu.fr/pub/linux/plf/mandriva/non-free/10.2/i586/ Some of its entries are otherwise-free packages (such as xmms) that have extra support for non-free components added. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 22:00:45 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:00:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <60933.69.157.194.50.1168466445.squirrel@secure.starnix.com> > Simon writes: >> one of these scripts. Everything else is in the official multiverse >> repositories, except for Skype, which I don't think is needed. Back > > It is needed if employers and clients insist on using it ;) True, but little of this technology is old enough to have established a huge amount of negative inertia. If there are better alternatives, the user base is not yet that entrenched to make moving impossible. (As the user base for these services is -- almost by definition -- bleeding edge early adopters, they can be more easily turned to something better. Having said that, it's yet to be established that the alternatives are superior beyond being more free. There are some wierd things about the Gizmo Project, for instance, that make it a less attractive alternative than it might otherwise be.) >> I frown on using scripts to automate installation of extra packages - I agree. It seems that all that easyubuntu does is temporarily add entries to your sources.list file, runs apt-get, and then reverts to your original file, all with a pretty new interface. As it's simply a second interface to augment synaptic or adept, I find that easyubuntu adds complexity rather than simplicity. Furthermore, updates of Easyubuntu-sourced packages require a two-step process; you need to upgrade easyubuntu *then* re-run it to upgrade its packages. I also notice that if you're using Kubuntu, installing easyubuntu forced the auxilliary install of a bunch of GNOME cruft My preference is just to add appropriate entries to my sources.list file; I find http://www.ubuntu-nl.org/source-o-matic/ extremely useful in this regard. Just do it once after system installation, then the "litigious" stuff installs (and updates) in the same manner as everything else. And, BTW, there are quite a few available "litigious" packages provided by groups such as the PLF. Here's a listing of what the PLF makes available for Mandriva: http://distrib-coffee.ipsl.jussieu.fr/pub/linux/plf/mandriva/non-free/10.2/i586/ Some of its entries are otherwise-free packages (such as xmms) that have extra support for non-free components added. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 22:02:57 2007 From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Matt) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:02:57 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <200701101638.45110.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <200701101638.45110.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <1168466577.5512.19.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> Cool, thanks! On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 16:38 -0500, bob wrote: > Not for Perl, but for general C, Tcl/Tk and Bash Linux programming you might > try my nofee online courses at: > > http://www.icanprogram.com/09tk/main.html > and > http://www.icanprogram.com/43ux/main.html > > All it will cost you is a voluntary contribution to Cancer research. > > bob > > > On Wednesday 10 January 2007 03:52 pm, Matt wrote: > > **WARNING-n00b ALERT** > > I've been dabbling in Linux over the last few years, and lately it has > > become apparent that my lack of programming/scripting knowledge is going > > to be a problem sooner or later, especially after Leah's excellent > > session on LDAP last night. However, I suck at debugging - I can handle > > tracking down silly mistakes like missing semicolons and the like, but > > when it comes to hardcore debugging, I'm usually up the proverbial > > creek. > > > > So, I have two questions: > > 1) What language should I look at learning/relearning? I'm thinking > > Perl, since I've done some before, though it's been a while > > 2) Does anyone know a good resource for n00bs to teach themselves? > > > > Thanks! > > Matt > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 22:03:11 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:03:11 -0500 Subject: (k)ubuntu: howto prevent lp module from loading at boot? In-Reply-To: <45A524BA.2040706-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1168444042.26211.50.camel@localhost> <45A524BA.2040706@buynet.com> Message-ID: <20070110220311.GN17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 12:39:06PM -0500, Herb Richter wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > I need to prevent the lp module from automatically loading at boot up on > a kubuntu *1 workstation (so that a vmware *2 guest os can access "lpt1") > > I've tried editing the /etc/modules (I assume that the new modules.conf > or conf.modules) and/or /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist > > dmesg shows a lot of lines like: > [ 3742.434891] parport0: no more devices allowed > [ 3742.435316] ppdev0: failed to register device! > [ 3742.666942] parport0: no more devices allowed > [ 3742.666947] ppdev0: failed to register device! > [ 3742.666980] ppdev0: claim the port first > [ 3805.511264] parport0: no more devices allowed > > I suspect that some other module or daemon such as cupsys or "HP Linux > Imaging and Printing" hplip is (re)loading lp. > > To manually "rmmod lp" works but this is not an option for the > particular user. > > Should I be looking at adding this to one of the init scripts (if so > which one? ) ...I would rather not be adding a "sudo" to a user vmware > launcher like /usr/bin/vmware. Something like: ----- /etc/modprobe.d/disablelp: alias lp off ----- That might do it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 22:06:26 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:06:26 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <1168462346.5512.16.camel-MHfmINoX7LZneC+ehBVEG2Xnswh1EIUO@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> Message-ID: <20070110220626.GO17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 03:52:25PM -0500, Matt wrote: > **WARNING-n00b ALERT** > I've been dabbling in Linux over the last few years, and lately it has > become apparent that my lack of programming/scripting knowledge is going > to be a problem sooner or later, especially after Leah's excellent > session on LDAP last night. However, I suck at debugging - I can handle > tracking down silly mistakes like missing semicolons and the like, but > when it comes to hardcore debugging, I'm usually up the proverbial > creek. > > So, I have two questions: > 1) What language should I look at learning/relearning? I'm thinking > Perl, since I've done some before, though it's been a while I hear python is nice. perl is certainly common and useful although one of the most messy and inconsistent languages I have ever worked with. There is also plain sh scripts and bash scripts which are very useful. awk scripts seem to be mostly replaced by perl now, as are sed scripts. Some people use ruby, although I have never been convinced it really has anything uniquely useful to offer. > 2) Does anyone know a good resource for n00bs to teach themselves? There should be lots of examples and introductions to most of the above a quick google search away. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 22:09:34 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:09:34 -0500 Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070110220934.GP17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 04:11:38PM -0500, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > It is needed if employers and clients insist on using it ;) Or you could teach them about open standards and such like SIP. Even Nortel telephone systems support SIP. Just because someone insists on using MSN messanger doesn't mean you can't show them gaim which is much better and support everything. With skype they can talk to skype users. With a SIp supporting program they can talk to lots of other SIP using systems including many phone systems. -- Len SOrensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From leah-L9i2b+zLJ9LIrURfT66hzQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 22:16:13 2007 From: leah-L9i2b+zLJ9LIrURfT66hzQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Kubik) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:16:13 -0500 Subject: Presentation files have been posted for LDAP talk Message-ID: <200701101716.13680.leah@frauerpower.com> The slides, supporting notes, and other resource links have now been posted for the LDAP talk at http://gtalug.org/wiki/Meetings:2007-01 : ''Online Presentation''' ; http://heinous.org/LDP/ldap_und_email : These are the actual slides, in HTML format ; http://heinous.org/LDP/LDAP_und_Email.odp : OpenOffice.org formatted presentation, in all it's original, spelling-mistake-laden glory ; http://heinous.org/wiki/OpenLDAP_and_how_to_do_something_vaguely_useful_with_it_on_a_Linux_mail_server : Presentation notes ; http://heinous.org/wiki/Category:LDAP : Other LDAP documentation on my web site Cheers, Leah -- Leah Kubik : d416-585-9971x692 : d416-703-5977 : m416-559-6511 Frauerpower! Co. : www.frauerpower.com : Toronto, ON Canada F9B6 FEFE 080B 8299 D7EA 1270 005C EC73 47C9 B7A6 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 22:23:55 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:23:55 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <1168462346.5512.16.camel-MHfmINoX7LZneC+ehBVEG2Xnswh1EIUO@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> Message-ID: <1168467835.23496.348.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> First off, I'm not a heads down programmer, I'm a system consultant who writes small utility programs to achieve my goals and I often work a bit in small web sites, but this may describe where you want to be. > 1) What language should I look at learning/relearning? I'm thinking > Perl, since I've done some before, though it's been a while It really depends on what you want to do. I find perl to be really good for system admin utilities and text file parsing. It's embedded pattern matching makes parsing text files and streams really easy. I may start out in a bash script and change to perl once I realize I need to do more. There are perl modules for everything so it's easy to do just about anything. There are GUI extensions for perl but... Red Hat, Fedora Core and CentOS all use Python for gui and curses admin tools. This may be where you want to go if you want to get fancy for admin. For web you might look at PHP (it's heavily used) or Java if you want to program serious web services. Ruby on rails has gained a lot of popularity lately for it's AJAX libraries. I've really just stuck with PHP. > 2) Does anyone know a good resource for n00bs to teach themselves? I don't look for tutorials any more, but you can find references at www.cpan.org for perl, www.php.net for PHP, and java.sun.com for Java. If you are going to get into web you'll need references to HTML, HTTP and Javascript too. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 22:27:18 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:27:18 -0500 Subject: Why english is important In-Reply-To: References: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1168468038.23496.352.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 15:30 -0500, Simon wrote: > That's not the point - the reason it's important is because for > phishers, good grammar is a valuable job skill, since they're > impersonating organizations that are capable of communicating in > fluent English. Absolutely, these are con-men, not burglars, and good ones will go that extra mile to convince you that they are legit. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 22:41:36 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:41:36 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <200701101638.45110.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <200701101638.45110.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0701101441i1187a857mb8fbbcf3de72a2dd@mail.gmail.com> On 1/10/07, bob wrote: > Not for Perl, but for general C, Tcl/Tk and Bash Linux programming you might > try my nofee online courses at: > > http://www.icanprogram.com/09tk/main.html > and > http://www.icanprogram.com/43ux/main.html > > All it will cost you is a voluntary contribution to Cancer research. > > bob > > > On Wednesday 10 January 2007 03:52 pm, Matt wrote: > > **WARNING-n00b ALERT** > > I've been dabbling in Linux over the last few years, and lately it has > > become apparent that my lack of programming/scripting knowledge is going > > to be a problem sooner or later, especially after Leah's excellent > > session on LDAP last night. However, I suck at debugging - I can handle > > tracking down silly mistakes like missing semicolons and the like, but > > when it comes to hardcore debugging, I'm usually up the proverbial > > creek. > > > > So, I have two questions: > > 1) What language should I look at learning/relearning? I'm thinking > > Perl, since I've done some before, though it's been a while > > 2) Does anyone know a good resource for n00bs to teach themselves? Taking one of the ICanProgram courses might be a good idea -- the Bash/C course looks like it covers quite a bit of ground and may give you a solid foundation for learning how to use debugging tools in general. (FWIW, I just registered for the 43ux course to fill in some basic linux dev gaps and get back into C programming... Thanks for the links/courses Bob!) If you choose to go with Perl (or even just to play around with a debugger), there's a nice little tutorial for getting started with the Perl 5.6 debugger at http://www.sunsite.ualberta.ca/Documentation/Misc/perl-5.6.1/pod/perldebtut.html (I would suspect that most of it applies to Perl 5.8 as well, but couldn't say for sure.) Best of Luck! -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 23:21:05 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 10 Jan 2007 18:21:05 -0500 Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: <60933.69.157.194.50.1168466445.squirrel-SDEzVqVlFnWye9+Y+OZS3dBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <60933.69.157.194.50.1168466445.squirrel@secure.starnix.com> Message-ID: "Evan Leibovitch" writes: > > Simon writes: > >> one of these scripts. Everything else is in the official multiverse > >> repositories, except for Skype, which I don't think is needed. Back > > > > It is needed if employers and clients insist on using it ;) > > True, but little of this technology is old enough to have established a > huge amount of negative inertia. If there are better alternatives, the > user base is not yet that entrenched to make moving impossible. > > (As the user base for these services is -- almost by definition -- > bleeding edge early adopters, they can be more easily turned to something > better. Having said that, it's yet to be established that the alternatives > are superior beyond being more free. Given the potential of a Skype vulnerability (whether intentional or unintentional) to inflict widespread damage, I think being "more free", i.e. more open to scrutiny, is particularly important in this context. A google search for: skype "security analysis" shows that there's much to be concerned about. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 10 23:32:07 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:32:07 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <1168462346.5512.16.camel-MHfmINoX7LZneC+ehBVEG2Xnswh1EIUO@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> Message-ID: <20070110233206.GA1875@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 03:52:25PM -0500, Matt wrote: >So, I have two questions: >1) What language should I look at learning/relearning? I'm thinking >Perl, since I've done some before, though it's been a while >2) Does anyone know a good resource for n00bs to teach themselves? Perl is solid and widely used. There is also an outstanding community supporting it. For Perl I'd recommend going to the Toronto Perl Mongers meetings to meet like-minded people, and to perlmonks.org to answer any/every question you might have. I would personally recommend Python though, for the following reasons: The standard library, that comes with every implementation of Python has most of anything you'll ever want. Perl has CPAN, but it's contents are incredibly uneven and hard to navigate - the Python standard library is all built in, and very nicely documented. The Python Tutor list - doesn't have the depth of experience and talent that perlmonks.org has, but they are always open, seemingly infinitely patient and very responsive. They will get you from beginner to quite confident. Then you join comp.lang.python. Nice syntax, good cross-platform capabilities and widely used for lots of things - there are Python jobs out there for those who want them. Python is integral to Red Hat, Google, the OLPC project and many others, and can very competently be used in nearly all circumstances. It's not perfect, but it's good and easy to get things done with. If you want to just get things done, avoid "clever" languages (Lisp, Forth) or "industrial" languages "C, C++" and especially avoid the "new" "holy grail" languages that claim to be all things to all people (Java, C#). -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 00:25:08 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:25:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <1168462346.5512.16.camel-MHfmINoX7LZneC+ehBVEG2Xnswh1EIUO@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Jan 2007, Matt wrote: > **WARNING-n00b ALERT** > I've been dabbling in Linux over the last few years, and lately it has > become apparent that my lack of programming/scripting knowledge is going > to be a problem sooner or later, especially after Leah's excellent > session on LDAP last night. However, I suck at debugging - I can handle > tracking down silly mistakes like missing semicolons and the like, but > when it comes to hardcore debugging, I'm usually up the proverbial > creek. > > So, I have two questions: > 1) What language should I look at learning/relearning? I'm thinking > Perl, since I've done some before, though it's been a while > 2) Does anyone know a good resource for n00bs to teach themselves? Everything begins with the shell. The commands you type at the prompt are the same ones you use in a script -- and vice versa. For the vast majority of programs, the shell is more than adequate. I use C when I need more speed (which is surpisingly rarely, these days), and I have learned enough lisp to write emacs functions. I tried perl and python, but perl is unreadable, and, I found both far more unwieldy than the shell. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 00:58:03 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:58:03 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> Message-ID: <45A58B9B.4070002@ve3syb.ca> Someone wrote: >> So, I have two questions: >> 1) What language should I look at learning/relearning? I'm thinking >> Perl, since I've done some before, though it's been a while Perl is good to know if you are going to be doing a lot of programming involving text manipulation. However, its syntax can appear to be rather cryptic at times. I'm pretty comfortable with Perl up to Perl 4. I haven't gotten in to the use of modules used in Perl 5. If you are interested in learning something for more general purpose programming, I would suggest you look at Python, or perhaps even Ruby. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 01:42:44 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:42:44 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <45A58B9B.4070002-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <45A58B9B.4070002@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <45A59614.4020000@telly.org> I notice that not a single person has suggested PHP, even though (from my minimal work to date) it appears to be reasonably flexible and is the foundation of many open source CMSs and other LAMP-based web apps. Are there objective reasons for not considering PHP as a place to invest one's time in entry-level programming, as opposed to Perl, Python, Ruby or shell? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 02:09:40 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:09:40 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <45A59614.4020000-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <45A58B9B.4070002@ve3syb.ca> <45A59614.4020000@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070111020940.GA2722@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 08:42:44PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >I notice that not a single person has suggested PHP, even though (from >my minimal work to date) it appears to be reasonably flexible and is the >foundation of many open source CMSs and other LAMP-based web apps. > >Are there objective reasons for not considering PHP as a place to invest >one's time in entry-level programming, as opposed to Perl, Python, Ruby >or shell? My reason for not suggesting it is because it is, by design, a web-centric tool, and I don't think that the web is a good place to learn programming - it is a hostile environment. It is easier to write a bad app in PHP than any other language, because it has an outward face. There are also a great many concerns about the language design of PHP, and while many great projects are written in it, it also accounts for a huge share of the security problems on the web. If a new programmer is starting web development, I would recommend that they start with a more general-purpose language and a mature framework (Ruby/Rails, Python/Django|TurboGears, Perl/Mason|Catalyst). They will get a web app up in about the same amount of time, but you will also learn a language that you can use elsewhere. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 02:16:46 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:16:46 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <45A59614.4020000-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <45A58B9B.4070002@ve3syb.ca> <45A59614.4020000@telly.org> Message-ID: <1168481807.6964.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 20:42 -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I notice that not a single person has suggested PHP, even though (from > my minimal work to date) it appears to be reasonably flexible and is the > foundation of many open source CMSs and other LAMP-based web apps. Then you missed my post. > Are there objective reasons for not considering PHP as a place to invest > one's time in entry-level programming, as opposed to Perl, Python, Ruby > or shell? If you're web based I think it makes sense. For console apps the debugging is a little to cumbersome. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 02:38:16 2007 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 10 Jan 2007 21:38:16 -0500 Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: <20070110220934.GP17268-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070110220934.GP17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) writes: > On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 04:11:38PM -0500, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > > It is needed if employers and clients insist on using it ;) > > Or you could teach them about open standards and such like SIP. Even You mean the same guys that I sent a 10 line dump of a mysql query today? It looks like: +=============+=========+=========+ | field 1 | field 2 | field 3 | +=============+=========+=========+ | data | data | data | ... +=============+=========+=========+ and I was asked to create an Excel spreadsheet of the data because they were having trouble dealing with it. I'll leave that edumication to someone with a lot more patience than I have. TTYL, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 02:58:18 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:58:18 -0500 Subject: (OT) Re:Why english is important In-Reply-To: <1168468038.23496.352.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1168468038.23496.352.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <45A5A7CA.6050901@telly.org> Sorry, the timing of this thread was just too good. This past weekend, I was shopping for Calrose (short grain) rice, the kind used for sushi making. At the T&T Asian supermarket in Promenade Mall, I purchased an 8kg bag of Tiger King brand rice. Not only was it inexpensive, but the colorful use of language in its description won me over (transcribed verbatim, including caps and punctuation): > "The TIGER KING Northeast Rice, the source directs from Japan; becomes > the high quality paddy rice variety after the improvement cultivation > and rich in beautifully to the Chinese northeast. > > TIGER KING Northeast Rice, pellet plentiful full, the cream color is > even, bright and clean like jade, crystal clear bright. And highly > cleanly guarantees the quality to be pure, does not contain the > impurity; Does not use rinse, then the direct watering puts into the > pot cooks a meal boils. After makes the rice, pure white glossy, the > feeling in the mouth fragrant soft is mellow, the delicate fragrance > whets the appetite. Besides normal edible, suits for the Japanese > sushi and South Korea mixes the food." You don't want to see the French translation; "TIGER KING Northeast Rice" becomes "le riz du nord-est de TIGRE ROL". BTW, Tiger King Group, according to the only address on the bag, is located in Markham. - Evan PS: I highly recommend a trip to one of Toronto's T&T supermarkets; this ain't no Loblaws. http://www.torontolife.com/guide/food/provisioners/tt-supermarket/ http://www.tnt-supermarket.com/main-e.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 04:52:15 2007 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 23:52:15 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <45A59614.4020000-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <45A58B9B.4070002@ve3syb.ca> <45A59614.4020000@telly.org> Message-ID: On 1/10/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I notice that not a single person has suggested PHP, even though (from > my minimal work to date) it appears to be reasonably flexible and is the > foundation of many open source CMSs and other LAMP-based web apps. > > Are there objective reasons for not considering PHP as a place to invest > one's time in entry-level programming, as opposed to Perl, Python, Ruby > or shell? > > - Evan In the hands of a skilled coder, there's nothing preventing the creation of a well written PHP app. However, the argument I've heard (I admit these are weasel words) is that it's not a good beginner language because it's easily possible for a beginner to start using PHP, write bad code, and develop bad habits. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pkozlenko-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 00:12:08 2007 From: pkozlenko-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Paul Kozlenko) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:12:08 -0500 Subject: LVS - Load Balancer - Help Message-ID: <001301c73515$243ecfb0$28001eac@dell> Anyone, I am trying to configure a load balancer and I am running into a brick wall. LVS seems to be the project that handles this but I keep running into one snag. I am not sure if there is a way around it. My scenario is that I have two devices that are like appliances (turn on and work - no command prompt or other - just fill in the blank to make it do what it was intended). All the documentation suggests that I need to setup a loopback interface that points to the virtual IP on each of the real servers. I would prefer to connect all devices (Real Server, Load Balancer and Client) on the same network - i.e. 172.27.100.0. That is - the real servers (appliances) and the clients do not have to change. The only Linux box in this whole thing is the load balancer. We have already used Juniper load balancers at $15K each and from what I understand, the only thing that needs to change using these is that the client points to a virtual IP rather than the real IP of either one of the real servers. The Juniper boxes work well, but the price of these ... well ... if it can be avoided. I would like to accomplish the same thing. The best information I have found thus far is: http://www.austintek.com/LVS/LVS-HOWTO/mini-HOWTO/LVS-mini-HOWTO.html If someone can suggest where to look to configure this. Where I can buy/download a prebuilt distro to do this. Or if someone can configure what I want for me. I would be willing to pay for the help of course ( I would have to be invoiced ). Any help on this would be appreciated Thanks - Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 05:29:39 2007 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 00:29:39 -0500 Subject: LVS - Load Balancer - Help In-Reply-To: <001301c73515$243ecfb0$28001eac@dell> References: <001301c73515$243ecfb0$28001eac@dell> Message-ID: http://perlstalker.amigo.net/Gentoo/LVS.phtml I don't know anything about this, but perhaps this link is easier to digest while still getting the job done. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vgs-XzQKRVe1yT0V+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 12:09:13 2007 From: vgs-XzQKRVe1yT0V+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org (VGS) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:09:13 -0500 Subject: LVS - Load Balancer - Help In-Reply-To: <001301c73515$243ecfb0$28001eac@dell> References: <001301c73515$243ecfb0$28001eac@dell> Message-ID: <45A628E9.7020401@videotron.ca> Hi, I did not fully understand your setup . You can use pen (http://siag.nu/pen/ ) if you are looking for a load balancer for "simple" tcp based protocols such as http or smtp. Regards, Shinoj. Paul Kozlenko wrote: > Anyone, > I am trying to configure a load balancer and I am running into a brick > wall. > > LVS seems to be the project that handles this but I keep running into > one snag. I am not sure if there is a way around it. My scenario is > that I have two devices that are like appliances (turn on and work - > no command prompt or other - just fill in the blank to make it do what > it was intended). All the documentation suggests that I need to setup > a loopback interface that points to the virtual IP on each of the real > servers. > > I would prefer to connect all devices (Real Server, Load Balancer and > Client) on the same network - i.e. 172.27.100.0. That is - the real > servers (appliances) and the clients do not have to change. > > The only Linux box in this whole thing is the load balancer. We have > already used Juniper load balancers at $15K each and from what I > understand, the only thing that needs to change using these is that > the client points to a virtual IP rather than the real IP of either > one of the real servers. The Juniper boxes work well, but the price of > these ... well ... if it can be avoided. > > I would like to accomplish the same thing. > > The best information I have found thus far is: > http://www.austintek.com/LVS/LVS-HOWTO/mini-HOWTO/LVS-mini-HOWTO.html > > If someone can suggest where to look to configure this. Where I can > buy/download a prebuilt distro to do this. Or if someone can configure > what I want for me. I would be willing to pay for the help of course ( > I would have to be invoiced ). > > Any help on this would be appreciated > > Thanks > - Paul > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 16:08:52 2007 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:08:52 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <45A59614.4020000-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <45A58B9B.4070002@ve3syb.ca> <45A59614.4020000@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070111160852.GA31388@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 08:42:44PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I notice that not a single person has suggested PHP, even though (from > my minimal work to date) it appears to be reasonably flexible and is the > foundation of many open source CMSs and other LAMP-based web apps. > > Are there objective reasons for not considering PHP as a place to invest > one's time in entry-level programming, as opposed to Perl, Python, Ruby > or shell? (Disclaimer: I have never used PHP.) I recently read an article (but I didn't keep track of where it was, I'm afraid) about PHP security problems. It said that the prime developers of PHP considered security to be far less important than simplicity of use - to the extent of not fixing insecure-as-installed issues (that's rejecting offered bug fixes, not just refusing to spend the effort to find a problem) but instead assuming that people who care about security will intuit the issues and work to avoid them while keeping the language "easy" for others. Hence, I would expect any PHP script, or any PHP programmer, to be likely to be providing security problems, and would expect that learning PHP to not be providing a sufficient grounding in safe programming.. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 15:02:05 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:02:05 -0500 Subject: (OT) Re:Why english is important In-Reply-To: <45A5A7CA.6050901-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1168468038.23496.352.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <45A5A7CA.6050901@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070111150205.GQ17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 09:58:18PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Sorry, the timing of this thread was just too good. > > This past weekend, I was shopping for Calrose (short grain) rice, the > kind used for sushi making. > > At the T&T Asian supermarket in Promenade Mall, I purchased an 8kg bag > of Tiger King brand rice. Not only was it inexpensive, but the colorful > use of language in its description won me over (transcribed verbatim, > including caps and punctuation): > > > "The TIGER KING Northeast Rice, the source directs from Japan; becomes > > the high quality paddy rice variety after the improvement cultivation > > and rich in beautifully to the Chinese northeast. > > > > TIGER KING Northeast Rice, pellet plentiful full, the cream color is > > even, bright and clean like jade, crystal clear bright. And highly > > cleanly guarantees the quality to be pure, does not contain the > > impurity; Does not use rinse, then the direct watering puts into the > > pot cooks a meal boils. After makes the rice, pure white glossy, the > > feeling in the mouth fragrant soft is mellow, the delicate fragrance > > whets the appetite. Besides normal edible, suits for the Japanese > > sushi and South Korea mixes the food." > > You don't want to see the French translation; "TIGER KING Northeast > Rice" becomes "le riz du nord-est de TIGRE ROL". > > BTW, Tiger King Group, according to the only address on the bag, is > located in Markham. Hmm, that almost sounds like the commentators you hear on iron chef. The japanese seem to have amazing abilities to describe food in terms of texture and flavour and other characteristics, which seem to be hard to translate since most people in english speaking countries don't really think much about food in that level of detail. My wife got a set of mahjong tiles for xmas (I believe from her brother) and the instructions in english are about as comprehensible as that rice description. The french instructions look much more sane (although I can't read them), so hopefully my wife can figure out the rules from that and translate for me. :) > PS: I highly recommend a trip to one of Toronto's T&T supermarkets; this > ain't no Loblaws. But they are so amazingly crowded whenever I go there. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 15:04:17 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:04:17 -0500 Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: References: <20070110220934.GP17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070111150417.GR17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 09:38:16PM -0500, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > You mean the same guys that I sent a 10 line dump of a mysql query today? > > It looks like: > > +=============+=========+=========+ > | field 1 | field 2 | field 3 | > +=============+=========+=========+ > | data | data | data | > ... > +=============+=========+=========+ > > and I was asked to create an Excel spreadsheet of the data because they were > having trouble dealing with it. So using windows makes people stupid (or maybe just incompetent) when it comes to computers. :) > I'll leave that edumication to someone with a lot more patience than I have. Just save it to a .csv file. Excel will open that for them. I think excel prefers tab seperation over commas in a .csv file, and "s around text fields. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 15:06:34 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:06:34 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <20070111160852.GA31388-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <45A58B9B.4070002@ve3syb.ca> <45A59614.4020000@telly.org> <20070111160852.GA31388@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20070111150634.GS17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 11:08:52AM -0500, John Macdonald wrote: > (Disclaimer: I have never used PHP.) > > I recently read an article (but I didn't keep track of where > it was, I'm afraid) about PHP security problems. It said that > the prime developers of PHP considered security to be far less > important than simplicity of use - to the extent of not fixing > insecure-as-installed issues (that's rejecting offered bug > fixes, not just refusing to spend the effort to find a problem) > but instead assuming that people who care about security will > intuit the issues and work to avoid them while keeping the > language "easy" for others. > > Hence, I would expect any PHP script, or any PHP programmer, > to be likely to be providing security problems, and would > expect that learning PHP to not be providing a sufficient > grounding in safe programming.. I like php. Nice easy to use web programming language. However security really has been a disaster for it. For example an article from today: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/11/php_apps_security/ Rather scary. Easy to use and not secure by design, means people who don't understand security issues will still be able to make programs that they believe are working just fine. Bad idea. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 15:13:51 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:13:51 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <1168462346.5512.16.camel-MHfmINoX7LZneC+ehBVEG2Xnswh1EIUO@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> Message-ID: You've already got quite a few good replies about various languages. So I'll try ;) not to start a language war, but your question was about debugging, so you should choose a language whose debugging makes the most sense to you. A long, long time ago (OK, it was 1987), I bought a fantastic package called Turbo C from a company called Borland and used it on an IBM PC XT to compile, link and debug C programs. You could edit, build and debug all in the same package, watching the various variables' values while watching the appropriate line of source highlighted on the screen. There are IDEs (Integrated Development Environments) which work in a similar manner .. I would recommend you find an IDE that works for you, and choose a language based on that. Then start developing programs that implement simple algorithims, and step through the code to see that it's all working as expected. My language of choice is Perl, partly because it fits my brain so well, partly because it's a quantum leap from C programming, partly because of the terrific books (from O'Reilly at http://www.ora.com), and partly because of the fantastic user community (Perlmonks at http://www.perlonks.org as already been mentioned, and the annual YAPC is a terrific learning and networking opportunity). I would recommend C only if you consider yourself an above average programmer -- if we're going with metaphors this morning I'd consider C to be a motorcycle, compared to other languages which would be cars and trucks. It's leaner, meaner, and way easier to get into trouble. As my friend's uncle said once, "If you get a flat front tire in a car going 120km/h, you have a problem. If you get a flat front tire on a motorcycle going 120km/h, you don't have problems any more." With C you can write just about anywhere in memory (OS protections notwithstanding) and in fact do just about anything. The Linux kernel is written in C, for example. PHP, Python, Ruby .. try them all. You'll find out for yourself whether you like the language and the user community -- both are important, because when the books can't help you any further, you'll need to talk to a live person, either on IRC, on a web site or face to face. And the community is a great way to stay in touch with language, find out what people are doing with it. Bash scripting is OK, but I find debugging it is a little dicey, so I'd only recommend it if you consider yourself an above average programmer. Finally, I don't know what level of school you're at, but a night course in programming skills might be very useful to you. Good luck! -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 15:33:44 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:33:44 -0500 Subject: (OT) Re:Why english is important In-Reply-To: <20070111150205.GQ17268-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1168468038.23496.352.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <45A5A7CA.6050901@telly.org> <20070111150205.GQ17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45A658D8.3030505@telly.org> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > My wife got a set of mahjong tiles for xmas (I believe from her brother) > and the instructions in english are about as comprehensible as that rice > description. The french instructions look much more sane (although I > can't read them), so hopefully my wife can figure out the rules from > that and translate for me. :) > > In the Jewish area of Toronto (go figure) there are Mah Jongg _leagues_, and stores in the area sell official rule books of a North American version of the game. Here's one place to get the current one online: http://www.mahjonggmaven.com/store/products_details.php?cat=0&cp=0&s=&id=A10-07 I haven't been around that stuff for ages, but the way I recall it was played a lot like Gin Rummy with tiles instead of cards. You can probably get by with the instructions on the Wikipedia page, but they're not exactly straightforward either. This may have actually very little with the way the tiles are used in Asia, but that's all I know. And of course it's nothing like the solitaire version found in many computer game forms. >> PS: I highly recommend a trip to one of Toronto's T&T supermarkets; this >> ain't no Loblaws. >> > > But they are so amazingly crowded whenever I go there. :) > Best time to go is Sunday night. They're open every night -- including Sundays -- until 10. And the Promenade location is less crowded than Steeles & Warden. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 15:34:43 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:34:43 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <20070111150634.GS17268-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <45A58B9B.4070002@ve3syb.ca> <45A59614.4020000@telly.org> <20070111160852.GA31388@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070111150634.GS17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1168529684.23496.366.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 10:06 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I like php. Nice easy to use web programming language. However > security really has been a disaster for it. For example an article from > today: > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/11/php_apps_security/ > > Rather scary. Easy to use and not secure by design, means people who > don't understand security issues will still be able to make programs > that they believe are working just fine. Bad idea. I don't think PHP is the problem. Its popularity combined with sloppy coding is the cause of the large number of exploits. The article even states this. Perhaps one can say that sloppy web coders choose PHP. It would be nice if a language made it easy to program more securely. Take one of the common exploits, SQL code injection. A programmer displays an HTML form, accepts data from it and uses that data in an SQL statement without checking. Aside from Perl (with non-default settings), what language helps to force the user to clean the data first? -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 15:37:06 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:37:06 -0500 Subject: what to use instead of skype? In-Reply-To: <20070111150417.GR17268-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070110220934.GP17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070111150417.GR17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1168529826.23496.369.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 10:04 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Just save it to a .csv file. Excel will open that for them. I think > excel prefers tab seperation over commas in a .csv file, and "s around > text fields. This extends the answer more, but HTML tables are imported really well into Excel and retain the formatting. Give it a .xls extension and Excel opens it as if it were an Excel file. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 15:46:09 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:46:09 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <1168529684.23496.366.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <45A58B9B.4070002@ve3syb.ca> <45A59614.4020000@telly.org> <20070111160852.GA31388@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070111150634.GS17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1168529684.23496.366.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <1168530370.23496.374.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 10:34 -0500, John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 10:06 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > I like php. Nice easy to use web programming language. However > > security really has been a disaster for it. For example an article from > > today: > > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/11/php_apps_security/ > > > > Rather scary. Easy to use and not secure by design, means people who > > don't understand security issues will still be able to make programs > > that they believe are working just fine. Bad idea. > > I don't think PHP is the problem. Its popularity combined with sloppy > coding is the cause of the large number of exploits. The article even > states this. Perhaps one can say that sloppy web coders choose PHP. > > It would be nice if a language made it easy to program more securely. > > Take one of the common exploits, SQL code injection. A programmer > displays an HTML form, accepts data from it and uses that data in an SQL > statement without checking. > > Aside from Perl (with non-default settings), what language helps to > force the user to clean the data first? I should have read more deeply into that article. PHP can do a lot more to be secure and that is evident from the Suhosin project. There are far more exposed vulnerabilities than I realized. It looks like Suhosin has experimental support for SQL code injection problems like what I mentioned. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 17:36:19 2007 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:36:19 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <1168529684.23496.366.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <45A58B9B.4070002@ve3syb.ca> <45A59614.4020000@telly.org> <20070111160852.GA31388@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070111150634.GS17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1168529684.23496.366.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <20070111173619.GC31388@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:34:43AM -0500, John Van Ostrand wrote: > I don't think PHP is the problem. Its popularity combined with sloppy > coding is the cause of the large number of exploits. The article even > states this. Perhaps one can say that sloppy web coders choose PHP. > > It would be nice if a language made it easy to program more securely. > > Take one of the common exploits, SQL code injection. A programmer > displays an HTML form, accepts data from it and uses that data in an SQL > statement without checking. I'm not sure if this is the same article that I saw, but something like this SQL injection was referred to in the acticle I saw. The issue was that the PHP examples on the official web site demonstrated the accept data and use it without checking paradigm and did not mention that there might be any danger in doing so. *That* is a problem with the language designers/promoters. Treating security as an afterthought final stage of programming guarantees that the program will be insecure. (As has been amply demonstrated by Microsoft.) > Aside from Perl (with non-default settings), what language helps to > force the user to clean the data first? AFAIK, Perl is the only language to have something like taint mode built into the language to tag data that comes from an insecure source and track its usage to ensure that only sanitized pieces of that data ever gets used in a context that might have security implications (but there are probably LISP variants that do, and perhaps others). Since Perl is used for far more things that running web scripts that interact with potential attackers; the fact that taint mode is not the default has reasonable justfication. Having to double the length of one-liner scripts to turn off tainting would be a significant imposition. Perl does use taint mode by default whenever it is run setuid - the circumstance that is clearly always running with inputs from a source that is not the same user as the program, and hence can be considered untrustworthy. Java has some sort of sandboxing to provide security support for running untrusted downloaded scripts - I don't know the exact details. Perl provides the Safe module to do that (but it is probably impossible to do this perfectly safely without adding so many restrictions as to make the downloaded script incapable of doing anything of value - this is likely in the same sort of range as the halting problem). There are surely other languages that try to provide sandboxing in some way. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 16:27:56 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:27:56 -0500 Subject: (OT) Re:Why english is important In-Reply-To: <45A658D8.3030505-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1168468038.23496.352.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <45A5A7CA.6050901@telly.org> <20070111150205.GQ17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45A658D8.3030505@telly.org> Message-ID: <45A6658C.8030203@pppoe.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: >Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > >>>PS: I highly recommend a trip to one of Toronto's T&T supermarkets; this >>>ain't no Loblaws. >>> >>> >>> >>But they are so amazingly crowded whenever I go there. :) >> >> >> >Best time to go is Sunday night. They're open every night -- including >Sundays -- until 10. > >And the Promenade location is less crowded than Steeles & Warden. > >- Evan > > > > Wait until fall :-) "Asian `Loblaws' set to expand Sometimes referred to as the "Loblaws" of Asian grocery stores, T & T Supermarket Inc. has announced it will open its first downtown Toronto store on city-owned waterfront property this fall. The store will be located in the former Knob Hill Farms supermarket on Cherry St., just north of Polson Ave."http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/169949 Sometimes, the "English" is a marketing gimmick(admittedly rare). I have in front of me a jar of "Aunty Gomay" crispy chillied shrimp. The rest of the label is standard English. My sister-in-law introduced the rest of the family to it, laughing and pointing out the play on "gourmet". It serves its purpose, you remember it and by the way, it's good. Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 16:31:42 2007 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:31:42 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <1168530370.23496.374.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <45A58B9B.4070002@ve3syb.ca> <45A59614.4020000@telly.org> <20070111160852.GA31388@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070111150634.GS17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1168529684.23496.366.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <1168530370.23496.374.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <45A6666E.3020306@pobox.com> John Van Ostrand wrote: > I should have read more deeply into that article. PHP can do a lot > more to be secure and that is evident from the Suhosin project. There > are far more exposed vulnerabilities than I realized. It looks like > Suhosin has experimental support for SQL code injection problems like > what I mentioned. Indeed, PHP is a security nightmare -- it requires a fair amount of skill and experience in the programmer to overcome the many security design defects in the language. The language's human factors are optimized to getting something working quickly, and *against* getting something working securely. That's why it's a horrible first programming language: it teaches terrible practices, but it allows the newbie to build something *useful*, so the newbie becomes highly resistant to learning how to do things *right*. After all, the app works, doesn't it? Never mind that the app compromises the newbie's data, the server the app runs on, and the Internet at large (much like the unsecured Windows machine the newbie uses). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 16:47:50 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:47:50 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <45A6666E.3020306-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <45A58B9B.4070002@ve3syb.ca> <45A59614.4020000@telly.org> <20070111160852.GA31388@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070111150634.GS17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1168529684.23496.366.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <1168530370.23496.374.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <45A6666E.3020306@pobox.com> Message-ID: <45A66A36.8010305@rogers.com> > Indeed, PHP is a security nightmare Ditto. It might be handy, but it allows incompetence to thrive. I got bored of doing PHP vuln work when I was still gainfully employed, because writing checks for vuln php apps was so rote... same mistakes over and over again. phpbb anyone? Gah. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 17:04:59 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:03:59 +1859 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <1168529684.23496.366.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <45A58B9B.4070002@ve3syb.ca> <45A59614.4020000@telly.org> <20070111160852.GA31388@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070111150634.GS17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1168529684.23496.366.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420701110904t4355bc66y2edfd6a88b753207@mail.gmail.com> > Aside from Perl (with non-default settings), what language helps to > force the user to clean the data first? Ruby also supports a "taint mode" that, to me, looks more sophisticated than Perl's version. I don't know the details of Perl's taint checking, though, so I could be wrong. You can see the details on Ruby's SAFE level here: http://ruby-doc.org/docs/ProgrammingRuby/html/taint.html Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 17:16:58 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:16:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: (OT) Re:Why english is important In-Reply-To: <45A6658C.8030203-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1168468038.23496.352.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <45A5A7CA.6050901@telly.org> <20070111150205.GQ17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45A658D8.3030505@telly.org> <45A6658C.8030203@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Meng Cheah wrote: > > "Asian `Loblaws' set to expand > Sometimes referred to as the "Loblaws" of Asian grocery stores, T & T > Supermarket Inc. has announced it will open its first downtown Toronto store > on city-owned waterfront property this fall. > The store will be located in the former Knob Hill Farms supermarket on Cherry > St., just north of Polson Ave."http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/169949 > > Sometimes, the "English" is a marketing gimmick(admittedly rare). > I have in front of me a jar of "Aunty Gomay" crispy chillied shrimp. > The rest of the label is standard English. > My sister-in-law introduced the rest of the family to it, laughing and > pointing out the play on "gourmet". Or is that "anti-gourmet"? > It serves its purpose, you remember it and by the way, it's good. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 17:49:49 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:49:49 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <1168529684.23496.366.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <45A58B9B.4070002@ve3syb.ca> <45A59614.4020000@telly.org> <20070111160852.GA31388@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070111150634.GS17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1168529684.23496.366.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: On 1/11/07, John Van Ostrand wrote: > > Aside from Perl (with non-default settings), what language helps to > force the user to clean the data first? For those unfamiliar with Perl, the non-default setting to which John is referring, is changing the first line of the CGI script from #!/usr/bin/perl -w to #!/usr/bin/perl -Tw John MacDonald has already pointed out that taint mode is also enabled automatically under certain conditions. And the reason taint mode isn't the default setting is because generating web pages is only one of the things that Perl is great for. ;) Running an installation procedure (as one of my Perl scripts does) doesn't need any taint checking, because all input is coming from a known user via interactive prompts. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 19:39:20 2007 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 14:39:20 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <45A58B9B.4070002@ve3syb.ca> <45A59614.4020000@telly.org> <20070111160852.GA31388@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070111150634.GS17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1168529684.23496.366.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <20070111193920.GE31388@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 12:49:49PM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote: > And the reason taint mode isn't the default setting is because generating > web pages is only one of the things that Perl is great for. ;) Running an > installation procedure (as one of my Perl scripts does) doesn't need any > taint checking, because all input is coming from a known user via > interactive prompts. More than just "a known user" but the same user that the script is running as, so anything that the script does based on the provided input is only things that the user would be permitted to do in other ways. That's why triggering taint mode whenever running setuid is a good thing, and leaving it up to the person running (or writing) the script to force taint mode when it will be used in a situation where the input is coming from some untrustable source is acceptable. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 19:16:13 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 14:16:13 -0500 Subject: APL+Win expertise sought. Message-ID: a linuxcaffe regular/ perl programmer / friend is in need of someone who groks APL+Win. anyone ? djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 21:11:11 2007 From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Matt) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:11:11 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <20070111193920.GE31388-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <45A58B9B.4070002@ve3syb.ca> <45A59614.4020000@telly.org> <20070111160852.GA31388@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070111150634.GS17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1168529684.23496.366.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070111193920.GE31388@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <1168549871.4646.10.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> Wow, thank you everyone for all this great info! I'm going to have to give this some more thought before I choose which language to start on. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 21:43:08 2007 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:43:08 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <1168549871.4646.10.camel-MHfmINoX7LZneC+ehBVEG2Xnswh1EIUO@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <45A58B9B.4070002@ve3syb.ca> <45A59614.4020000@telly.org> <20070111160852.GA31388@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070111150634.GS17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1168529684.23496.366.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070111193920.GE31388@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1168549871.4646.10.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> Message-ID: On 1/11/07, Matt wrote: > Wow, thank you everyone for all this great info! I'm going to have to > give this some more thought before I choose which language to start on. On the other hand, don't get too overwhelmed - pick something and dive in rather than think about it and end up doing nothing. I say this with a grim recollection of my first look at trying out Linux, back in 2001-2002 :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 21:55:56 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:55:56 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <45A58B9B.4070002@ve3syb.ca> <45A59614.4020000@telly.org> <20070111160852.GA31388@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070111150634.GS17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1168529684.23496.366.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070111193920.GE31388@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1168549871.4646.10.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0701111355h53e26f46wcc41a88c33a1413d@mail.gmail.com> On 1/11/07, Simon wrote: > On 1/11/07, Matt wrote: > > Wow, thank you everyone for all this great info! I'm going to have to > > give this some more thought before I choose which language to start on. > > On the other hand, don't get too overwhelmed - pick something and dive > in rather than think about it and end up doing nothing. I say this > with a grim recollection of my first look at trying out Linux, back in > 2001-2002 :) Agreed, starting 'round 2003/2004. :-) As has been mentioned elsewhere in the thread, one important factor to choosing a starting language would be to understand what kind of coding you'd like to do. Will it be for system administration? Application/Utility developement? Do you want it to be console based? XWindows? Web? Being able to answer these questions should help you get started. Once you've spent some time with one language, it's been my experience that writing in others isn't as hard is it might sound. I spent the first 10 years programming using BASIC and the next 10 learning/playing-wth a number of others. Better 'n Lego(TM) ;-) -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 22:50:06 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 17:50:06 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <1168529684.23496.366.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <45A58B9B.4070002@ve3syb.ca> <45A59614.4020000@telly.org> <20070111160852.GA31388@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070111150634.GS17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1168529684.23496.366.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <20070111225006.GT17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:34:43AM -0500, John Van Ostrand wrote: > I don't think PHP is the problem. Its popularity combined with sloppy > coding is the cause of the large number of exploits. The article even > states this. Perhaps one can say that sloppy web coders choose PHP. Being able to include() a url is just nuts. That should not be possible by default, since a lots of programs have been exploited by being able to specify which file to include, and as a result being able to make the program execute code from another site entirely. > It would be nice if a language made it easy to program more securely. > > Take one of the common exploits, SQL code injection. A programmer > displays an HTML form, accepts data from it and uses that data in an SQL > statement without checking. > > Aside from Perl (with non-default settings), what language helps to > force the user to clean the data first? Not very many unfortunately. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 23:10:53 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:10:53 +0000 Subject: APL+Win expertise sought. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1/11/07, David J Patrick wrote: > a linuxcaffe regular/ perl programmer / friend is in need of someone who > groks APL+Win. > anyone ? > djp Stuart Yarus... He's out of DFW, working at CompUSA. But he used to be editor of Quote Quad, once upon a time... Between people formerly associated with IP Sharp and Reuters and Strand and Snake Island Research, there are probably some in Toronto, but I don't particularly know them... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 23:27:55 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:27:55 +0000 Subject: Job Scheduling Message-ID: Is there anyone using more sophisticated job schedulers than cron? http://sunsite.uakom.sk/sunworldonline/swol-07-1998/swol-07-scheduling.html The above article points out the problems with this: "In short, cron is pretty much a fancy alarm clock, waking up at preset times to run a job. Detection of job failure is simplistic, and it can't rerun a failed job at a later date. If you're lucky, cron will send you e-mail that a job has failed, but more often than not, that e-mail goes to the superuser, not your personal mailbox. There is no way to tell cron to restart a failed job, or to automatically run a recovery job if some other job has failed." This article points out Unison Maestro, COSbatch, Autosys, CA Unicenter as commercial choices that have these sorts of additional capabilities. Others include Vexus Avatar, Dollar Enterprise, BMC Control-M, Tivoli Workload Scheduler, ... There are several OSS systems that might be of some relevance: http://jobscheduler.sourceforge.net/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/quartz (tasks must be in Java...) Anyone tried any of these? -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 01:21:55 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 20:21:55 -0500 Subject: make apache2 serve file as htmL? (kinda urgent) Message-ID: <1168564915.13654.8.camel@localhost> Hi folks, I just screwed up and wrote down the wrong url in my lecture: http://www.derailleur.org/global instead of http://www.derailleur.org/global.html so I thought, no problem, I'll just copy the page over. But as you can see by clicking the above links, the first one is served up as text. I tried changing DefaultType text/plain to DefaultType text/html in /etc/apache2/apache2.conf, and also in ROOT/.htaccess for this host, but neither had any effect.am I doing something wrong? All help much appreciated! thanks, Matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 01:39:41 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 20:39:41 -0500 Subject: make apache2 serve file as htmL? (kinda urgent) In-Reply-To: <1168564915.13654.8.camel@localhost> References: <1168564915.13654.8.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200701112039.41490.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Thursday 11 January 2007 20:21, Matt Price wrote: > Hi folks, > > I just screwed up and wrote down the wrong url in my lecture: > http://www.derailleur.org/global > instead of > http://www.derailleur.org/global.html > > so I thought, no problem, I'll just copy the page over. But as you > can see by clicking the above links, the first one is served up as > text. I tried changing > DefaultType text/plain > to > DefaultType text/html > > in > /etc/apache2/apache2.conf, and also in ROOT/.htaccess for this > host, > > but neither had any effect.am I doing something wrong? > > All help much appreciated! thanks, Hi Matt, If Apache is configured to follow symlinks, you could just put a symlink from global to global.html. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 01:40:33 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 20:40:33 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <1168549871.4646.10.camel-MHfmINoX7LZneC+ehBVEG2Xnswh1EIUO@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <20070111193920.GE31388@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1168549871.4646.10.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> Message-ID: <200701112040.34145.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Thursday 11 January 2007 16:11, Matt wrote: > Wow, thank you everyone for all this great info! I'm going to have > to give this some more thought before I choose which language to > start on. Hi Matt, Since you are new to programming, and even if you were not, I would highly recommend the book "Learn to Program Using Python" by Alan Gauld. Gauld explains that his objective is not necessarily to make you an expert in Python but to teach you about programming constructs that are common to most languages and I think he succeeds. Another book I've read that was like that was Dave Mark's excellent book of the early '90s "Learn C on the Macintosh". I wanted to learn C on the Macintosh and noticed that he did not assume any prior programming experience. I eventually gave the book to a friend who wanted to learn how to program but had no idea of what programming was and he found it quite useful. Many of the books or tutorials on the web assume you have some prior programming experience and jump right into the language. A couple of good resources on the web that come to mind are: "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist - Learning With Python" and "Instant Hacking" . The beauty of Python is that the barriers to entry to start using it are very low. If you're running Linux or OS X, you don't have to fuss with setting up a Python environment. On Windows, download and install from here: . Typing "python" in a shell will get you into a Python shell at which point, you'll immediately be able to start writing Python code. You can improve your Python experience considerably by installing iPython , which is an alternative Python shell but that's an optional step. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 02:22:27 2007 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:22:27 -0500 Subject: January PegaSoft Meeting - Java Applets Message-ID: <1168568547.5743.15.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> The next PegaSoft dinner meeting is Date: Thursday, January 19, 2007 at 7:00 pm Location: Linux Caffe Topic: Java Applet Basics (Ken B) Ken will run through the basic steps for creating your own Java applet for a web page, including using the Sun Java compiler and associated tools. Attendance is free but we ask you to tell us your coming so we can confirm there's enough interest to keep the Linux Caffe open after hours for this event. Send an email to Ken Burtch (address on http://www.pegasoft.ca/people.html). Ken B. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pkozlenko-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 11 22:37:09 2007 From: pkozlenko-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Paul Kozlenko) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 17:37:09 -0500 Subject: LVS - Load Balancer - Help References: <001301c73515$243ecfb0$28001eac@dell> <45A628E9.7020401@videotron.ca> Message-ID: <008e01c735d1$07b1ac70$28001eac@dell> First - I would like to thank Simon and yourself for your responses. Shinoj, I downloaded this, compiled it - and wow - one command line later - it works. Perfect. Just a note - I have installed it on OpenSuSE 10.1 - just in case you wanted to know. I'm in heaven - "Open" heaven. Thanks - Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "VGS" To: Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 7:09 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: LVS - Load Balancer - Help > > Hi, > > I did not fully understand your setup . You can use pen > (http://siag.nu/pen/ ) if you are looking for a load balancer for "simple" > tcp based protocols such as http or smtp. > > Regards, > Shinoj. > > > Paul Kozlenko wrote: > >> Anyone, >> I am trying to configure a load balancer and I am running into a brick >> wall. >> >> LVS seems to be the project that handles this but I keep running into one >> snag. I am not sure if there is a way around it. My scenario is that I >> have two devices that are like appliances (turn on and work - no command >> prompt or other - just fill in the blank to make it do what it was >> intended). All the documentation suggests that I need to setup a loopback >> interface that points to the virtual IP on each of the real servers. >> >> I would prefer to connect all devices (Real Server, Load Balancer and >> Client) on the same network - i.e. 172.27.100.0. That is - the real >> servers (appliances) and the clients do not have to change. >> >> The only Linux box in this whole thing is the load balancer. We have >> already used Juniper load balancers at $15K each and from what I >> understand, the only thing that needs to change using these is that the >> client points to a virtual IP rather than the real IP of either one of >> the real servers. The Juniper boxes work well, but the price of these ... >> well ... if it can be avoided. >> >> I would like to accomplish the same thing. >> >> The best information I have found thus far is: >> http://www.austintek.com/LVS/LVS-HOWTO/mini-HOWTO/LVS-mini-HOWTO.html >> >> If someone can suggest where to look to configure this. Where I can >> buy/download a prebuilt distro to do this. Or if someone can configure >> what I want for me. I would be willing to pay for the help of course ( I >> would have to be invoiced ). >> >> Any help on this would be appreciated >> >> Thanks >> - Paul >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 03:45:45 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 22:45:45 -0500 Subject: make apache2 serve file as htmL? (kinda urgent) In-Reply-To: <200701112039.41490.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1168564915.13654.8.camel@localhost> <200701112039.41490.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <1168573545.13654.15.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2007-11-01 at 20:39 -0500, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On Thursday 11 January 2007 20:21, Matt Price wrote: > > Hi folks, > > > > I just screwed up and wrote down the wrong url in my lecture: > > http://www.derailleur.org/global > > instead of > > http://www.derailleur.org/global.html > > > > so I thought, no problem, I'll just copy the page over. But as you > > can see by clicking the above links, the first one is served up as > > text. I tried changing > > DefaultType text/plain > > to > > DefaultType text/html > > > > in > > /etc/apache2/apache2.conf, and also in ROOT/.htaccess for this > > host, > > > > but neither had any effect.am I doing something wrong? > > > > All help much appreciated! thanks, > > Hi Matt, > > If Apache is configured to follow symlinks, you could just put a > symlink from global to global.html. Thanks clifford, I tried that, but it didn't work -- it seemed as though apache only read the file extension on the real file. Anyway, I have something that seems to be working right now: DefaultType text/html in /etc/apache2/sites-available/derailleur.org THat seems to be doingthe trick for now. Not a great solution -- I'm not sure whether the directive is limited to the directory in question, or if it also applies to all subdirectories? anyway, will only keep it this way for a few days I guess. thanks, matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 04:05:31 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 23:04:31 +1859 Subject: make apache2 serve file as htmL? (kinda urgent) In-Reply-To: <1168573545.13654.15.camel@localhost> References: <1168564915.13654.8.camel@localhost> <200701112039.41490.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1168573545.13654.15.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <7ac602420701112005v57e024d3r2aa450d025a8ed8d@mail.gmail.com> I don't know how to do URL rewriting in Apache, but this seems like the perfect application. Are there any wizards on the list that could share the incantation that makes Apache respond with a 301 Move Permanently when a client requests http://www.derailleur.org/global ? Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris.trismegistus-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 06:06:29 2007 From: chris.trismegistus-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Chris McDermott) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 01:06:29 -0500 Subject: make apache2 serve file as htmL? (kinda urgent) In-Reply-To: <1168564915.13654.8.camel@localhost> References: <1168564915.13654.8.camel@localhost> Message-ID: > I just screwed up and wrote down the wrong url in my lecture: > http://www.derailleur.org/global > instead of > http://www.derailleur.org/global.html Make a directory named 'global' and move the file to 'global/index.html'. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 12:34:52 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 07:34:52 -0500 Subject: UserFriendly Message-ID: <45A7806C.8040309@rogers.com> http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/07jan/uf009907.gif -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 14:12:52 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:12:52 -0500 Subject: make apache2 serve file as htmL? (kinda urgent) In-Reply-To: References: <1168564915.13654.8.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1168611172.13654.17.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2007-12-01 at 01:06 -0500, Chris McDermott wrote: > > I just screwed up and wrote down the wrong url in my lecture: > > http://www.derailleur.org/global > > instead of > > http://www.derailleur.org/global.html > > Make a directory named 'global' and move the file to 'global/index.html'. > gaah! that is SO obvious now you say it... thanks, matt > Chris > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 15:32:07 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:32:07 -0500 Subject: APL+Win expertise sought. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks noble LUG fellows, our local perl programming, coffee swilling pal was thrilled by your enthusiastic response, and I think he has found the needed knowledge. you collectively rock, djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 16:40:24 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:40:24 +0000 Subject: make apache2 serve file as htmL? (kinda urgent) In-Reply-To: References: <1168564915.13654.8.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On 1/12/07, Chris McDermott wrote: > > I just screwed up and wrote down the wrong url in my lecture: > > http://www.derailleur.org/global > > instead of > > http://www.derailleur.org/global.html > > Make a directory named 'global' and move the file to 'global/index.html'. That seems as though it would work, but it also seems a crummy answer to me. I'd like to be able to have my web pages all leave out the ".html" suffix, and still work. (Aside: People seem to keep forgetting that Unix has NO SUCH THING as a "file extension." It's not MS-DOS. It's not VMS. It's not MVS. All of those systems had special portions of filenames known as an "extension." Unix doesn't do that.) http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI.html "Cool URIs don't change" They suggest leaving out all sorts of things that often get stowed in a URI: - Author's name - Subject classification - Status (old/draft/latest/cool/lastweek) - Access permissions (public/private/team/...) - File name extension - Software mechanisms (.cgi, /exec/, .pl, ...) There's no good reason to publish your technical details as part of the URL, except that web servers sometimes make it inconvenient to do otherwise... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 17:02:56 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:02:56 -0500 Subject: LVM and MythTV Message-ID: <200701121202.56429.mervc@eol.ca> Those who have helped me get MythTV going, thanks. I now have a backend computer with the equivalent of 2 PVR-150's and one computer with a backend slave and frontend working. The MythDora distro did the job. I followed the Ubuntu backend instructions and that failed when I couldn't retrieve some files and then the frontend the same thing, when I couldn't get the gtk2.0 binaries. I know they are there in the pool - G directory but apt-get just can't find them. Anyway, MythDora sets up a Logical Volume for the data partition and I would like to add another e-ide harddisk to that volume. I have gone through the LVM Howto, but it is many, many pages written in 2002 and somehow nothing that old is relevant nor can I find just what I need to do. Can someone post some doc's they found that explains LVM in a manner I might understand? I did see some information about doing this in my myth travels but I have no idea if it was a forum or where I read it. Not enough sense to make a note of it at the time. Kinda wordy request for help, sorry. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Linux Etch Desktop: KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.2.3 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 17:56:43 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:56:43 -0500 Subject: LVM and MythTV In-Reply-To: <200701121202.56429.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701121202.56429.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20070112175643.GU17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 12:02:56PM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > Those who have helped me get MythTV going, thanks. I now have a backend > computer with the equivalent of 2 PVR-150's and one computer with a backend > slave and frontend working. > > The MythDora distro did the job. I followed the Ubuntu backend instructions > and that failed when I couldn't retrieve some files and then the frontend the > same thing, when I couldn't get the gtk2.0 binaries. I know they are there in > the pool - G directory but apt-get just can't find them. > > Anyway, MythDora sets up a Logical Volume for the data partition and I would > like to add another e-ide harddisk to that volume. I have gone through the > LVM Howto, but it is many, many pages written in 2002 and somehow nothing > that old is relevant nor can I find just what I need to do. Can someone post > some doc's they found that explains LVM in a manner I might understand? > > I did see some information about doing this in my myth travels but I have no > idea if it was a forum or where I read it. Not enough sense to make a note of > it at the time. Kinda wordy request for help, sorry. Create a partition on the new disk (you can run without partitions, but it tends to confuse some people). pvcreate /dev/newdisk (ie /dev/hdc1 or whatever your new device is) vgextend VolumeGroupName /dev/newdisk vgdisplay VolumeGroupName |grep -i free (to get number of free extents) lvextend /dev/VolumeGroupName/LogicalVolumeName -l +numberOfNewExtents Then resize the filesystem to fill the new volume size (some filesystems have to be unmounted to do that, others can be done online). For ext2 or ext3 I tend to do this: umount /dev/VolumeGroupName/LogicalVolumeName fsck -f /dev/VolumeGroupName/LogicalVolumeName resize2fs -p /dev/VolumeGroupName/LogicalVolumeName mount /dev/VolumeGroupName/LogicalVolumeName -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 19:07:59 2007 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:07:59 -0500 Subject: Unix file extensions (Was: make apache2 serve file as htmL...) Message-ID: <20070112190759.GA4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 04:40:24PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: > [...] (Aside: People seem to keep forgetting that > Unix has NO SUCH THING as a "file extension." It's not MS-DOS. It's > not VMS. It's not MVS. All of those systems had special portions of > filenames known as an "extension." Unix doesn't do that.) Unix, the operating system kernel, has no special meaning or support for file extensions. It does, however, permit users to use any conventions they like to organize their files. The only rules enforced by the operating system about file names are: - no slash in a file name (reserved for directory separator) - no null in a file name (reserved for string terminator in system calls) - "." and ".." are reserved for directory layout - each type of file system has its own additional limitations, in particular the maximum length of a file name is a property of the particular file system type On the other hand, Unix, the programming environment, has always made use of file extensions to manage files. The compiler, linker, and make, for example, all use extensions in a consistant way to specify types of files used for programming. The ls program uses file names that begin with . (i.e. contain only an extension) to denote files that are, by default, not listed. So, the original point is true, but only to a point. The concept "you have no NEED to use extensions in Unix" is useful for people to know. However, any phrasing of that concept that implies "you should not use extensions in Unix" is just plain wrong. So, be careful about how urgently you present that message. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 18:18:02 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:18:02 -0500 Subject: partimage and Windows XP - mildy OT Message-ID: <1f13df280701121018r7caf7904ib3043529f0ffe32@mail.gmail.com> On 1/8/07, Giles wrote: > I recently purchased a 120Gb HD to replace the 40 Gb HD in my laptop. > I have a multi-boot system on the 40Gb including XP, and I'm somewhat > stumped as to how to clone a Windows partition from one drive to the > other. Unfortunately, I don't have the ability to put both drives > into a computer together, but I can boot with Knoppix or the Ultimate > Boot CD and save partition images to an external USB HD. > > I booted the 40Gb HD with Ubuntu and used "partimage" to create > gzipped partition images for both Fedora Core 5 and Windows XP on the > USB HD. I put the 120Gb into the laptop, booted Knoppix, and used > partimage to unpack both images - Windows onto hda1, the first primary > partition (it's on hda2 on the old HD). FC5 went onto a logical > partition. Both partitions were slightly larger than the original > partitions. With a GRUB install and a bit of tweaking, FC5 booted > fine. But attempting to boot XP got me the GRUB parameters on screen > and a screeching halt. The partition is mountable and appears to have > the expected files, but won't boot. Sorry for quoting myself, but I thought the context was appropriate. Amos Weatherhill suggested fixing the partition numbers in \boot.ini ... unfortunately this didn't fix the problem. Len Sorensen suggested re-installing, but I would really prefer not to for several reasons. The main one is that I don't have physical media: I have only a recovery partition and no good way to make that work on a new hard drive (although I'll be working on that in the near future). Also, contrary to the accepted knowledge that Windows installs go sour in six months to a year, this one is running beautifully and it would take me weeks of tweaking to get a new install working as well. So I'd like to get this one working as a transplant if at all possible. I suppose I'm also stuck a bit on the principle of the thing: I "ought" to be able to do this. I have since replicated the partitions (hda1, 2, and 3) on the new HD: same physical sizes and even locations. Now Windows boots, but when you enter a username and password at the login screen, it says "logging out" and brings you back to the login screen. This applies to both the Administrator and a normal user, and also happens in Safe mode. A Google search mostly turns up discussions of trojans and viruses that cause this, but accessing the partition from Linux it's clear that I don't have the infection referred to (I don't have the executable that causes the problem). Has anybody seen this? Any ideas on fixing it? (I know this is kind of a Windows problem, but it's one that's more likely to happen to a Linux geek ...) Thanks for any help offered! -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 18:10:32 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 18:10:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Why english is important References: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: Simon writes: > That's not the point - the reason it's important is because for > phishers, good grammar is a valuable job skill, since they're > impersonating organizations that are capable of communicating in > fluent English. Ok, what's the difference between a phishing attempt for 5% of 419,000$ with spilling mistakes, spam from a broker promising about the same gains in percent for a minimum investment of 20,000$, and a phishing attempt from ebay complaining about the non-payment for the yelllow Valvo you bought last week ? These will likely all contain some bad engrish somewhere. What they have in common is the fact that someone who cannot be bothered to click on the spell check button is after your money in other than 'usual' ways (like your bank likely does, when it flogs some investment pamphlet with exquisite spelling and layout). As to 'organizations capable of communicating in fluent English', surely you must have met a couple of clerks whose accents are in the 'medium to difficult' categoy ? I am not a native english speaker and I have slightly more trouble than most pinning down accents, but even natives have trouble with certain kinds of 'plain engrish'. Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 19:35:21 2007 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:35:21 -0500 Subject: January PegaSoft Meeting - Java Applets In-Reply-To: <1168568547.5743.15.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1168568547.5743.15.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <1168630521.4940.5.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Correction: Thursday, January 18, 2007 KB On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 21:22 -0500, Ken Burtch wrote: > The next PegaSoft dinner meeting is > > Date: Thursday, January 19, 2007 at 7:00 pm > > Location: Linux Caffe > > Topic: Java Applet Basics (Ken B) > > Ken will run through the basic steps for creating your own > Java applet for a web page, including using the Sun Java > compiler and associated tools. > > > Attendance is free but we ask you to tell us your coming so we can > confirm there's enough interest to keep the Linux Caffe open after hours > for this event. Send an email to Ken Burtch > (address on http://www.pegasoft.ca/people.html). > > Ken B. > -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 20:16:30 2007 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:16:30 -0500 Subject: Government spooks helped Microsoft build Vista Message-ID: <1168632991.3963.112.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Looks like corruption is rife in the US with the NSA allegedly supporting Microsoft. Looks like soon it will be anti-American to not support Microsoft. (Bush-if you're not for us your against us) Now Novell is in with Microsoft. I don't know why I bother to continue to support Novell. http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36814 Does anyone have suggestions for long term IT strategies that won't land me on a terrorist list? Is RedHat really the only large non-Microsoft shop? RickT -- "Friends don't let friends use windows. Show a suffering windows user Linux today." http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 20:55:52 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:55:52 -0500 Subject: Government spooks helped Microsoft build Vista In-Reply-To: <1168632991.3963.112.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1168632991.3963.112.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <45A7F5D8.1060809@rogers.com> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > Looks like corruption is rife in the US with the NSA allegedly > supporting Microsoft. Looks like soon it will be anti-American to not > support Microsoft. (Bush-if you're not for us your against us) Now > Novell is in with Microsoft. I don't know why I bother to continue to > support Novell. http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36814 > > Does anyone have suggestions for long term IT strategies that won't land > me on a terrorist list? Is RedHat really the only large non-Microsoft > shop? > RickT > > Please bear in mind that it is the responsibility of the NSA to ensure software is secure for certain government uses. Any software that's to be used has to be certified. The list includes Unix, Windows, Netware and many others. Getting the NSA to say your software is secure, is not selling out. The NSA produced a secure version of Red Hat a few years ago. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 20:56:08 2007 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:56:08 -0500 Subject: Government spooks helped Microsoft build Vista In-Reply-To: <45A7F5D8.1060809-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1168632991.3963.112.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45A7F5D8.1060809@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1168635368.3963.118.camel@spot1.localhost.com> I appreciate the reply. I wasn't aware of that. On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 15:55 -0500, James Knott wrote: > Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > Looks like corruption is rife in the US with the NSA allegedly > > supporting Microsoft. Looks like soon it will be anti-American to not > > support Microsoft. (Bush-if you're not for us your against us) Now > > Novell is in with Microsoft. I don't know why I bother to continue to > > support Novell. http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36814 > > > > Does anyone have suggestions for long term IT strategies that won't land > > me on a terrorist list? Is RedHat really the only large non-Microsoft > > shop? > > RickT > > > > > Please bear in mind that it is the responsibility of the NSA to ensure > software is secure for certain government uses. Any software that's to > be used has to be certified. > The list includes Unix, Windows, Netware and many others. Getting the > NSA to say your software is secure, is not selling out. The NSA > produced a secure version of Red Hat a few years ago. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- "Friends don't let friends use windows. Show a suffering windows user Linux today." http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 21:46:10 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 21:46:10 +0000 Subject: Unix file extensions (Was: make apache2 serve file as htmL...) In-Reply-To: <20070112190759.GA4144-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20070112190759.GA4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: On 1/12/07, John Macdonald wrote: > On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 04:40:24PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: > > [...] (Aside: People seem to keep forgetting that > > Unix has NO SUCH THING as a "file extension." It's not MS-DOS. It's > > not VMS. It's not MVS. All of those systems had special portions of > > filenames known as an "extension." Unix doesn't do that.) > > Unix, the operating system kernel, has no special meaning or > support for file extensions. It does, however, permit users > to use any conventions they like to organize their files. The > only rules enforced by the operating system about file names are: > > - no slash in a file name (reserved for directory separator) > - no null in a file name (reserved for string terminator in system calls) > - "." and ".." are reserved for directory layout > - each type of file system has its own additional limitations, in particular > the maximum length of a file name is a property of the particular file > system type > > On the other hand, Unix, the programming environment, has always > made use of file extensions to manage files. The compiler, > linker, and make, for example, all use extensions in a > consistant way to specify types of files used for programming. > The ls program uses file names that begin with . (i.e. contain > only an extension) to denote files that are, by default, > not listed. I'm afraid my copy of Lion's Commentary is at home, so I can't do the pedantic "see, extensions have *never* been supported," but I believe I've checked that... The Unix programming environment has *never* used file extensions. It can't, because the filesystems don't support them. > The concept "you have no NEED to use extensions in Unix" > is useful for people to know. However, any phrasing of that > concept that implies "you should not use extensions in Unix" > is just plain wrong. So, be careful about how urgently you > present that message. No, it's not "plain wrong." If you examine filesystem code, you'll find that there Is No Such Thing As A File Extension. They don't exist. They aren't supported. (Well, they are in msdosfs and ISO9660, which, respectively, emulate FSes from Microsoft and DEC. But not in the *usual* Unixy filesystems...) Unix programming tools don't use them, either. Unix programming tools often use file suffixes to infer information about file type, but a suffix is not the same thing as an "extension." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filename_extension -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 22:58:09 2007 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:58:09 -0500 Subject: Government spooks helped Microsoft build Vista In-Reply-To: <45A7F5D8.1060809-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1168632991.3963.112.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45A7F5D8.1060809@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070112225809.GB4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 03:55:52PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > >Looks like corruption is rife in the US with the NSA allegedly > >supporting Microsoft. Looks like soon it will be anti-American to not > >support Microsoft. (Bush-if you're not for us your against us) Now > >Novell is in with Microsoft. I don't know why I bother to continue to > >support Novell. http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36814 > > > >Does anyone have suggestions for long term IT strategies that won't land > >me on a terrorist list? Is RedHat really the only large non-Microsoft > >shop? > >RickT > > > > > Please bear in mind that it is the responsibility of the NSA to ensure > software is secure for certain government uses. Any software that's to > be used has to be certified. > The list includes Unix, Windows, Netware and many others. Getting the > NSA to say your software is secure, is not selling out. The NSA > produced a secure version of Red Hat a few years ago. It is also their responsibility to ensure that the U.S. is capable of getting intelligence from foreign lands. As Bruce Schneier points out in his blog (Jan 9 about 10 entries ago right now http://www.schneier.com/blog/), these two responsibilities are opposed when they are examining popular software. Do they report problems so they can be fixed so that U.S. government use is safer, or do they leave them in so they can be used to spy on the rest of the world? -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 22:03:44 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:03:44 -0500 Subject: make apache2 serve file as htmL? (kinda urgent) In-Reply-To: References: <1168564915.13654.8.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200701121703.45059.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Friday 12 January 2007 11:40, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 1/12/07, Chris McDermott wrote: > > > I just screwed up and wrote down the wrong url in my lecture: > > > http://www.derailleur.org/global > > > instead of > > > http://www.derailleur.org/global.html > > > > Make a directory named 'global' and move the file to > > 'global/index.html'. > > That seems as though it would work, but it also seems a crummy > answer to me. > > I'd like to be able to have my web pages all leave out the ".html" > suffix, and still work. (Aside: People seem to keep forgetting > that Unix has NO SUCH THING as a "file extension." It's not > MS-DOS. It's not VMS. It's not MVS. All of those systems had > special portions of filenames known as an "extension." Unix > doesn't do that.) > > http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI.html > "Cool URIs don't change" > > They suggest leaving out all sorts of things that often get stowed > in a URI: - Author's name > - Subject classification > - Status (old/draft/latest/cool/lastweek) > - Access permissions (public/private/team/...) > - File name extension > - Software mechanisms (.cgi, /exec/, .pl, ...) > > There's no good reason to publish your technical details as part of > the URL, except that web servers sometimes make it inconvenient to > do otherwise... I agree, Chris. Plone, Drupal, Django, TurboGears, Pylons, and Ruby on Rails, to name a few web frameworks and content management systems, all have mechanisms to generate clean URLs. An added bonus to clean URLs is that URLs which are human friendly tend to be search engine friendly too. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 22:06:01 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:06:01 -0600 Subject: Unix file extensions (Was: make apache2 serve file as htmL...) In-Reply-To: References: <20070112190759.GA4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990701121406y4dab485aw70a72a899dd9ec2a@mail.gmail.com> On 1/12/07, Christopher Browne wrote: > Unix programming tools often use file suffixes to infer information > about file type, but a suffix is not the same thing as an "extension." File suffixes rock.. I still laugh when I see 8.3 filenames. Imagine a unix server with a website with all 8.3 filenames.. oh the hilarity. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From steven.meyer-bdq14YP6qtRg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 20:42:01 2007 From: steven.meyer-bdq14YP6qtRg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (steven meyer) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:42:01 -0500 Subject: Help Wanted In-Reply-To: <45A7806C.8040309-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <45A7806C.8040309@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1168634521.11780.2.camel@steven-desktop> Opportunity for new grad or recent grad in Science or Engineering to program Web user interfaces for embedded Linux devices. This is a contract position in Markham of 6 months and potentially longer. Please contact me off-list for more details. Steven (steven.meyer-bdq14YP6qtRg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 22:06:47 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:06:47 -0600 Subject: Unix file extensions (Was: make apache2 serve file as htmL...) In-Reply-To: <1e55af990701121406y4dab485aw70a72a899dd9ec2a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070112190759.GA4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1e55af990701121406y4dab485aw70a72a899dd9ec2a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990701121406g61efb314j7360160c6a7d4e04@mail.gmail.com> On 1/12/07, Sy Ali wrote: > File suffixes rock.. I still laugh when I see 8.3 filenames. > > Imagine a unix server with a website with all 8.3 filenames.. oh the hilarity. Note to self: think more before sending silly comments. I'm not sure if much of that made sense. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 22:23:27 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:23:27 -0600 Subject: Government spooks helped Microsoft build Vista In-Reply-To: <20070112225809.GB4144-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <1168632991.3963.112.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45A7F5D8.1060809@rogers.com> <20070112225809.GB4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990701121423s6e07c4dby32595d1be6c801e0@mail.gmail.com> On 1/12/07, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > Does anyone have suggestions for long term IT strategies that won't land > me on a terrorist list? Is RedHat really the only large non-Microsoft > shop? You just used the big "t" word alongside your real name. You're already flagged. ;) But more seriously, I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you looking to start a non-Microsoft-OS discussion? On 1/12/07, John Macdonald wrote: > It is also their responsibility to ensure that the U.S. is > capable of getting intelligence from foreign lands. As Bruce > Schneier points out in his blog (Jan 9 about 10 entries > ago right now http://www.schneier.com/blog/), these two > responsibilities are opposed when they are examining popular > software. Do they report problems so they can be fixed so > that U.S. government use is safer, or do they leave them in > so they can be used to spy on the rest of the world? A while back, an international collaboration of crackers ended up forcing the NSA etc to work together to provide significant security hole-finding resources to a number of companies. For free. At this point, holes in Windows are best plugged than left open. Home-soil is too vulnerable to bother taking advantage of the international application of security holes. There are other ways to open holes in installations, for "informational" purposes. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 23:34:11 2007 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 18:34:11 -0500 Subject: Unix file extensions (Was: make apache2 serve file as htmL...) In-Reply-To: References: <20070112190759.GA4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20070112233411.GC4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 09:46:10PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 1/12/07, John Macdonald wrote: > >On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 04:40:24PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: > >> [...] (Aside: People seem to keep forgetting that > >> Unix has NO SUCH THING as a "file extension." It's not MS-DOS. It's > >> not VMS. It's not MVS. All of those systems had special portions of > >> filenames known as an "extension." Unix doesn't do that.) > > > >Unix, the operating system kernel, has no special meaning or > >support for file extensions. It does, however, permit users > >to use any conventions they like to organize their files. The > >only rules enforced by the operating system about file names are: > > > >- no slash in a file name (reserved for directory separator) > >- no null in a file name (reserved for string terminator in system calls) > >- "." and ".." are reserved for directory layout > >- each type of file system has its own additional limitations, in > >particular > > the maximum length of a file name is a property of the particular file > > system type > > > >On the other hand, Unix, the programming environment, has always > >made use of file extensions to manage files. The compiler, > >linker, and make, for example, all use extensions in a > >consistant way to specify types of files used for programming. > >The ls program uses file names that begin with . (i.e. contain > >only an extension) to denote files that are, by default, > >not listed. > > I'm afraid my copy of Lion's Commentary is at home, so I can't do the > pedantic "see, extensions have *never* been supported," but I believe > I've checked that... > > The Unix programming environment has *never* used file extensions. It > can't, because the filesystems don't support them. > > >The concept "you have no NEED to use extensions in Unix" > >is useful for people to know. However, any phrasing of that > >concept that implies "you should not use extensions in Unix" > >is just plain wrong. So, be careful about how urgently you > >present that message. > > No, it's not "plain wrong." > > If you examine filesystem code, you'll find that there Is No Such > Thing As A File Extension. They don't exist. They aren't supported. > (Well, they are in msdosfs and ISO9660, which, respectively, emulate > FSes from Microsoft and DEC. But not in the *usual* Unixy > filesystems...) If you examine filesystem code, you're looking in the kernel. I stated above: Unix, the operating system kernel, has no special meaning or support for file extensions. [...] > Unix programming tools don't use them, either. Of course they do. Take a look at all of the default rules used by the make program - virtualy all of the actions it takes are based on existance of files with varying extensions matching the specified or required filenames. > Unix programming tools often use file suffixes to infer information > about file type, but a suffix is not the same thing as an "extension." Just because extensions on Unix are voluntary and only supported by programming tools does not mean they do not exist. If you want to call them something else, you'll just end up with confusing discussions, If you convince others that Unix does not have extensions, they'll have difficulties reading the man pages for programs like gcc and make. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filename_extension Quoting from there: (1) A filename extension is a suffix to the name of a computer file applied to show its format. The initial definition does not restrict itself only to suffices that are managed by the kernel/file system. There is a suggestion of that a bit later, but then the entry finishees off with: (2) Mac OS X, however, uses filename extensions as a consequence of being derived from the Unix-like NEXTSTEP, which didn't have type or creator code support in its file system. So, Unix file system suffices are still considerd "extensions" in the context of the definition you refer to (presumably intended as a counter=statement). -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 22:37:13 2007 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:37:13 -0500 Subject: Job Scheduling In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200701121737.13656.marc@lijour.net> If you use Java you coud look at the Quartz scheduler, you mention it. I used it and I have no complaints. It looks solid and you can use cron expressions ;-) On Thursday 11 January 2007 18:27, Christopher Browne wrote: > Is there anyone using more sophisticated job schedulers than cron? > > http://sunsite.uakom.sk/sunworldonline/swol-07-1998/swol-07-scheduling.html > > The above article points out the problems with this: > > "In short, cron is pretty much a fancy alarm clock, waking up at > preset times to run a job. Detection of job failure is simplistic, and > it can't rerun a failed job at a later date. If you're lucky, cron > will send you e-mail that a job has failed, but more often than not, > that e-mail goes to the superuser, not your personal mailbox. There is > no way to tell cron to restart a failed job, or to automatically run a > recovery job if some other job has failed." > > This article points out Unison Maestro, COSbatch, Autosys, CA > Unicenter as commercial choices that have these sorts of additional > capabilities. Others include Vexus Avatar, Dollar Enterprise, BMC > Control-M, Tivoli Workload Scheduler, ... > > There are several OSS systems that might be of some relevance: > > http://jobscheduler.sourceforge.net/ > http://sourceforge.net/projects/quartz (tasks must be in Java...) > > Anyone tried any of these? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 13 00:43:52 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 19:43:52 -0500 Subject: Odd debian kernel install problem Message-ID: <20070113004352.GA7628@watson-wilson.ca> I'm trying to install a Debian kernel: ettin:/boot# apt-get -V install kernel-image-2.6-686-smp Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree... Done The following NEW packages will be installed: kernel-image-2.6-686-smp (2.6.18+5) 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 64 not upgraded. Need to get 1972B of archives. After unpacking 32.8kB of additional disk space will be used. Get:1 http://debian.yorku.ca testing/main kernel-image-2.6-686-smp 1:2.6.18+5 [1972B] Fetched 1972B in 0s (13.2kB/s) Selecting previously deselected package kernel-image-2.6-686-smp. (Reading database ... 81432 files and directories currently installed.) Unpacking kernel-image-2.6-686-smp (from .../kernel-image-2.6-686-smp_1%3a2.6.18+5_i386.deb) ... Setting up kernel-image-2.6-686-smp (2.6.18+5) ... However, nothing seems to be installed. There are no new files in / or /boot. Where is the kernel and the initrd? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 19:42:44 up 55 min, 3 users, load average: 0.10, 0.11, 0.09 http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 14 02:48:51 2007 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:48:51 -0500 Subject: Job Scheduling In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That article's at least 8 years old. Are you sure that today's cron schedulers don't already do these things? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 13 01:09:15 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:09:15 -0500 Subject: LVM How-To by Lennart Message-ID: <200701122009.15518.mervc@eol.ca> Thanks for the instructions Lennart. From what stuck in the grey cells from the HOW-TO, it seemed to make sense. I assume that somewhere in the second stage I format the 'newdisk' with ext3 to match the present part of the logical volume? What I don't understand without going back to the Linux HOW-TO, is the extents you talked about. The result of vgdisplay for the partition videolv01 is PE / Size 1 / 32 MB Is the 32 MB what I use for the lvextend command? Something went disasterously wrong this afternoon, this computer locked up and I had to power down. When I restarted it, it just wouldn't reboot, about 10 error messages, ending something like, ' this shouldn't happen, but it did '. Nothing like a programmer with a sense of humor. At any rate, tonight after supper, I fired it up, I think every partition on 2 drives had errors, this is the first thing I've tried and all of todays messages are lost somewhere. Luckily I wrote all your instructions down and was able to check the first 4 steps to see about these extents. 'man fsck' doesn't reveal an -f option, perhaps that applies to LVM. Thanks again. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 14 23:58:26 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:58:26 -0500 Subject: OT: Copyright law changes could leave consumers vulnerable Message-ID: <45AAC3A2.3080702@pppoe.ca> http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2007/01/11/copyright-canada.html Ever recorded a television show or a movie so you can watch it later? Or ripped a CD so you can listen to it on your MP3 player? With changes to Canada's copyright laws expected as early as next month, these mundane 21st century activities could theoretically be open to prosecution ? unless the Conservative government steps in with expanded "fair use" or "fair dealing" protections for consumers. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 13 13:18:00 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 08:18:00 -0500 Subject: Job Scheduling In-Reply-To: <200701121737.13656.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200701121737.13656.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: Apple has something called launchd which is open source, even has a business friendly license http://launchd.macosforge.org/ Dave On 12-Jan-07, at 5:37 PM, Marc Lijour wrote: > > If you use Java you coud look at the Quartz scheduler, you mention it. > I used it and I have no complaints. It looks solid and you can use > cron > expressions ;-) > > On Thursday 11 January 2007 18:27, Christopher Browne wrote: >> Is there anyone using more sophisticated job schedulers than cron? >> >> http://sunsite.uakom.sk/sunworldonline/swol-07-1998/swol-07- >> scheduling.html >> >> The above article points out the problems with this: >> >> "In short, cron is pretty much a fancy alarm clock, waking up at >> preset times to run a job. Detection of job failure is simplistic, >> and >> it can't rerun a failed job at a later date. If you're lucky, cron >> will send you e-mail that a job has failed, but more often than not, >> that e-mail goes to the superuser, not your personal mailbox. >> There is >> no way to tell cron to restart a failed job, or to automatically >> run a >> recovery job if some other job has failed." >> >> This article points out Unison Maestro, COSbatch, Autosys, CA >> Unicenter as commercial choices that have these sorts of additional >> capabilities. Others include Vexus Avatar, Dollar Enterprise, BMC >> Control-M, Tivoli Workload Scheduler, ... >> >> There are several OSS systems that might be of some relevance: >> >> http://jobscheduler.sourceforge.net/ >> http://sourceforge.net/projects/quartz (tasks must be in Java...) >> >> Anyone tried any of these? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 13 09:43:27 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 04:43:27 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <1168462346.5512.16.camel-MHfmINoX7LZneC+ehBVEG2Xnswh1EIUO@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990701130143g70481d10p8d6043a9a6927322@mail.gmail.com> On 1/10/07, Matt wrote: > So, I have two questions: > 1) What language should I look at learning/relearning? I'm thinking > Perl, since I've done some before, though it's been a while > 2) Does anyone know a good resource for n00bs to teach themselves? I also ask the same questions others have asked: Why do you want to learn? For what specific purpose? If you're learning just to get entry-level skills to eventually get useful skills, then look at Ruby or Python. I recommend Ruby because it's easy on your brain. Links: http://www.trug.ca/Ruby And some good starting material: http://poignantguide.net/ruby/ http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/ http://tryruby.hobix.com/ Once you can do some very basic stuff, then re-examine yourself and choose a language suited to some field or problem. Bash for commandline, Ruby or the more popular PHP for web, Perl for all kinds of stuff, C for kernel stuff, etc. Or whatever language your favourite app is written in. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 13 02:42:22 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 21:42:22 -0500 Subject: Unix file extensions (Was: make apache2 serve file as htmL...) In-Reply-To: <20070112233411.GC4144-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20070112190759.GA4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070112233411.GC4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <45A8470E.3010205@rogers.com> John Macdonald wrote: > Just because extensions on Unix are voluntary and only supported > by programming tools does not mean they do not exist. If you > want to call them something else, you'll just end up with > confusing discussions, If you convince others that Unix does > not have extensions, they'll have difficulties reading the > man pages for programs like gcc and make. > > Many years ago, on some systems, different file types were stored differently on the disk. Nowadays, there's just the extension or suffix that designates the file type, but beyond that, has no effect on storage. However, DOS and Windows do use that to determine executables. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 16:03:16 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 11:03:16 -0500 Subject: lecture jan 26 Message-ID: <1168876996.13654.53.camel@localhost> Hi, tluggers might bei tnerested i nthe following lecture on January 26: Christ Kelty, Rice University "Two Bits: The Cultural Significance of Free Software" (140 St. George St., Room 205, 12 pm) Chris is probably the most interesting anthropologist to study free software, the talk should be qutie interesting. More info at: http://www.utoronto.ca/wgsi/biopolitics/spring.htm matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 03:46:01 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 22:46:01 -0500 Subject: test Message-ID: <20070114224601.229e9744@node1.freeyourmachine.org> -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bob Barker: "I may be against the fur industry, but that won't stop me from skinning you alive... as long as no one wears the skin." Fry: "How can I live my life if I can't tell good from evil?" Bender: "Ah, they're both fine choices, whatever floats your boat." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 23:20:19 2007 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 18:20:19 -0500 Subject: Government spooks helped Microsoft build Vista In-Reply-To: <1e55af990701121423s6e07c4dby32595d1be6c801e0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1168632991.3963.112.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45A7F5D8.1060809@rogers.com> <20070112225809.GB4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1e55af990701121423s6e07c4dby32595d1be6c801e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168644020.3963.173.camel@spot1.localhost.com> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 16:23 -0600, Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/12/07, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > Does anyone have suggestions for long term IT strategies that won't land > > me on a terrorist list? Is RedHat really the only large non-Microsoft > But more seriously, I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you > looking to start a non-Microsoft-OS discussion? I don't want to start/join a non-Microsoft-OS discussion but it may be a good idea. Now that Microsoft oddly enough gained market share illegally will continue to be the OS of choice for government and will be protected as a US munition. Who says crime doesn't pay? What are the options to eliminate Microsoft products (possibly even Novell) from a company IT repertoire? I know Debian, Xandros and Ubuntu are popular but lack any long term impact on the market. Most distributions are not US based. This has advantages and disadvantages. Non US based distributions lack market capitalization resulting in more complex support arrangements. Berkley OS (Unix) require significant programming skills and are not commercially supported. So this leaves RedHat. IBM, HP and other Unixes are a world unto themselves. If SCO wasn't so stupid they would be a good choice. > > On 1/12/07, John Macdonald wrote: > > It is also their responsibility to ensure that the U.S. is > > capable of getting intelligence from foreign lands. As Bruce > > Schneier points out in his blog (Jan 9 about 10 entries > > ago right now http://www.schneier.com/blog/), these two > > responsibilities are opposed when they are examining popular > > software. Do they report problems so they can be fixed so > > that U.S. government use is safer, or do they leave them in > > so they can be used to spy on the rest of the world? > > A while back, an international collaboration of crackers ended up > forcing the NSA etc to work together to provide significant security > hole-finding resources to a number of companies. For free. > > At this point, holes in Windows are best plugged than left open. > Home-soil is too vulnerable to bother taking advantage of the > international application of security holes. > > There are other ways to open holes in installations, for > "informational" purposes. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- "Friends don't let friends use windows. Show a suffering windows user Linux today." http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 14 23:16:30 2007 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:16:30 -0500 Subject: Unix file extensions (Was: make apache2 serve file as htmL...) In-Reply-To: References: <20070112190759.GA4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20070114181630.0c7101b7.hgibson@eol.ca> On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 21:46:10 +0000 "Christopher Browne" wrote: > > If you examine filesystem code, you'll find that there Is No Such > Thing As A File Extension. They don't exist. They aren't supported. > (Well, they are in msdosfs and ISO9660, which, respectively, emulate > FSes from Microsoft and DEC. But not in the *usual* Unixy > filesystems...) > > Unix programming tools don't use them, either. > > Unix programming tools often use file suffixes to infer information > about file type, but a suffix is not the same thing as an "extension." Christopher, It looks like I am going to have to transition from FVWM and the file mananger XFM to the Gnome distributed with Fedora Core_5. It is too bad, since XFM can use magic files to identify stuff. You do not need file extensions. Progress -- two steps forward, one step back. I hope. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 16:02:55 2007 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 11:02:55 -0500 Subject: Unix file extensions (Was: make apache2 serve file as htmL...) In-Reply-To: References: <20070112190759.GA4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20070115160255.GA18230@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Sun, Jan 14, 2007 at 10:51:04PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 1/12/07, John Macdonald wrote: > >On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 04:40:24PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: > >> [...] (Aside: People seem to keep forgetting that > >> Unix has NO SUCH THING as a "file extension." It's not MS-DOS. It's > >> not VMS. It's not MVS. All of those systems had special portions of > >> filenames known as an "extension." Unix doesn't do that.) > > > >Unix, the operating system kernel, has no special meaning or > >support for file extensions. It does, however, permit users > >to use any conventions they like to organize their files. The > >only rules enforced by the operating system about file names are: > > > >- no slash in a file name (reserved for directory separator) > >- no null in a file name (reserved for string terminator in system calls) > >- "." and ".." are reserved for directory layout > >- each type of file system has its own additional limitations, in > >particular > > the maximum length of a file name is a property of the particular file > > system type > > Right. This doesn't change that filenames have one single namespace, > not two, as is the case on all those other OSes. > > >On the other hand, Unix, the programming environment, has always > >made use of file extensions to manage files. > > Nonsense. It never has, which should be blatantly obvious in view > that Unix never had a separate namespace for file "extensions." Only a small part of the programming environment depends upon what is enforced by the operating system and file system, and that part is not really considered a required part of the programming environment. Until BSD FFS came along, filenames were restricted to 14 characters maximum, but as newer file systems provided fewer restrictions the programming environment continued work, just with fewer restrictions. > Look at GCC documentation. Does it say "behaviour is based on file > extension?" No. It says: > > "For any given input file, the file name suffix determines what kind > of compilation is done" It also says: "You might also like to precompile a C header file with a .h extension to be used in C++ compilations." and: "When used in combination with the -x command line option, -save-temps is sensible enough to avoid over writing an input source file with the same extension as an intermediate file." and: "-x assembler-with-cpp Specify the source language: C, C++, Objective-C, or assembly. This has nothing to do with standards conformance or extensions; it merely selects which base syntax to expect. If you give none of these options, cpp will deduce the language from the extension of the source file: .c, .cc, .m, or .S. Some other common extensions for C++ and assembly are also recognized. If cpp does not recog- nize the extension, it will treat the file as C; this is the most generic mode." and: "-fpreprocessed is implicit if the input file has one of the extensions .i, .ii or .mi. These are the extensions that GCC uses for preprocessed files created by -save-temps." So, the gcc man page does not agree with you that file name suffices may not be called extensions unless they are enforced by the operating system and/or file system. Browsing through the vim help pages (for syntax highlighting) I also see lots of usage of extension to denote file name suffices that specify the type of contents that are expected to be found in the file. > >So, the original point is true, but only to a point. > >The concept "you have no NEED to use extensions in Unix" > >is useful for people to know. However, any phrasing of that > >concept that implies "you should not use extensions in Unix" > >is just plain wrong. So, be careful about how urgently you > >present that message. > > No, I don't take any of it back. There are no extensions on Unix. Unix does not have what *you* call extensions, but that viewpoint is not adopted by the world at large. > The documentation for the respective programs clearly demonstrates this. It clearly demonstrates that using program suffices to denote the type of content in a file is called "file name extension", even on Unix systems. > Using the term "extension" instead of "suffix" or "pattern" is sure to > cause confusion, as it doesn't reflect the way things work. This > isn't VMS or TOPS-10 or MVS or CP/M; we don't have no steenking > extensions. Denying a term that is in common use is more likely to cause confusion than using it for in a situation that is enforced differently but generally has the same function. While VMS, TOP-10, MVS, and CP/M (and numerous others) have OS enforcement of extensions, they are surely inconsistant with each other about exactly what the full ramifications are. Do you next say that CP/M doesn't *really* have extensions because they aren't automatically tied into version control (another suffix usage on VMS)? -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 13 04:39:27 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 23:39:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: good deal on Nokia 770? Message-ID: I haven't kept track of the prices but tigerdirect.ca is offering the Nokia 770 for $359.97. I imagine that this is good. Perhaps it implies that they are being dumped. http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1827124&Sku=N529-0006&SRCCODE=LSCAN&CMP=AFC-LSCAN&AffiliateID=CAqD7bLWUPI-2bg_Gwzola_vSvtVh694jA Tiger Direct's US price seems to be $349 -- an amazingly low spread. Does NOT say "refurbished". 3 months warranty. On this list, 2006 November 1, Simon mentioned the US$350 price. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 13 20:09:12 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 15:09:12 -0500 Subject: LVM and MythTV In-Reply-To: <20070112175643.GU17268-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200701121202.56429.mervc@eol.ca> <20070112175643.GU17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200701131509.12602.mervc@eol.ca> On Friday 12 January 2007 12:56, Lennart Sorensen wrote: Thanks Lennart. Seems to make sense from what I read and remember from the HOW-TO, except > Create a partition on the new disk (you can run without partitions, but > it tends to confuse some people). > > pvcreate /dev/newdisk (ie /dev/hdc1 or whatever your new device is) > vgextend VolumeGroupName /dev/newdisk > vgdisplay VolumeGroupName |grep -i free (to get number of free extents) response is free PE / Size 1 / 32MB Is this what I should see?, I use ??? for the extent in the next line. > lvextend /dev/VolumeGroupName/LogicalVolumeName -l +numberOfNewExtents > > Then resize the filesystem to fill the new volume size (some filesystems > have to be unmounted to do that, others can be done online). > > For ext2 or ext3 I tend to do this: > umount /dev/VolumeGroupName/LogicalVolumeName > fsck -f /dev/VolumeGroupName/LogicalVolumeName > resize2fs -p /dev/VolumeGroupName/LogicalVolumeName > mount /dev/VolumeGroupName/LogicalVolumeName > > -- I assume that I make an ext3 filesystem before I mount it? The drive I am adding, was used before, for a week, on another computer for this same Myth distro and is formatted and set up exactly like this new install. I can't figure out what goes in fstab for hdb3 [ a LVM the same as hda3 ] so I could mount it and maybe copy some stuff over before I delete the 3 partitions to make one big partition. Could I express myself worse? I think the problem is in the /dev section. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Linux Etch Desktop: KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.2.3 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 17:28:19 2007 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John M. Moniz) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 12:28:19 -0500 Subject: Thunderbird Saved Mail Permissions Message-ID: <45ABB9B3.1050305@sympatico.ca> I use Thunderbird for e-mail on my little home network and have it set up to retrieve POP3 mail from sympatico. I use the Global setting and have the Thunderbird Server Settings such that each profile on any PC will retrieve the e-mail and store it to the same Inbox on a file server, giving all profiles full access to the mail on any PC. All saved mail folders are likewise accessible to any user on any PC. All saved folders have the owner & group set to one profile and permissions are set to be accessible by all users (all on the same group). I run into situations, when a user makes changes to the saved folders, where the ownership and permissions change to something other that what I have set. I don't know all of the occasions when this happens, but it always happens when a user compacts a folder. The user doing the compaction becomes the owner of the folder and the permissions change to 'read only' for all other users in the group. This can be annoying when it happens to the Inbox. I'd like to fix this without changing the whole system to IMAP (which I intend to do *some day*). Is there a way to fix the ownership permissions so that it doesn't get changed by other users? I thought I had found a solution in a book by setting the User ID and Group ID permission bits, but the changes still occur. As a home user, I don't get involved much in permissions other than rwx, so am at a loss. Any help would be thankfully appreciated. John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 19:47:00 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:47:00 -0500 Subject: Job Scheduling In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070115194700.GC5356@watson-wilson.ca> On Sat, Jan 13, 2007 at 09:48:51PM -0500, Simon wrote: >That article's at least 8 years old. Are you sure that today's cron >schedulers don't already do these things? I do not believe that cron can be centrally controlled nor does it understand job dependency. One has to look to enterprise schedulers, like Tivoli, for these features. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 2 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 03:51:04 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 22:51:04 -0500 Subject: Unix file extensions (Was: make apache2 serve file as htmL...) In-Reply-To: <20070112190759.GA4144-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20070112190759.GA4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: On 1/12/07, John Macdonald wrote: > On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 04:40:24PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: > > [...] (Aside: People seem to keep forgetting that > > Unix has NO SUCH THING as a "file extension." It's not MS-DOS. It's > > not VMS. It's not MVS. All of those systems had special portions of > > filenames known as an "extension." Unix doesn't do that.) > > Unix, the operating system kernel, has no special meaning or > support for file extensions. It does, however, permit users > to use any conventions they like to organize their files. The > only rules enforced by the operating system about file names are: > > - no slash in a file name (reserved for directory separator) > - no null in a file name (reserved for string terminator in system calls) > - "." and ".." are reserved for directory layout > - each type of file system has its own additional limitations, in particular > the maximum length of a file name is a property of the particular file > system type Right. This doesn't change that filenames have one single namespace, not two, as is the case on all those other OSes. > On the other hand, Unix, the programming environment, has always > made use of file extensions to manage files. Nonsense. It never has, which should be blatantly obvious in view that Unix never had a separate namespace for file "extensions." > The compiler, > linker, and make, for example, all use extensions in a > consistant way to specify types of files used for programming. No, since the filesystem never supported extensions, these tools do not use extensions for *any* purpose. Read the documentation for "Make," for instance. It uses what are called "suffix rules" to automate various transformations. Not extensions - suffix rules. > The ls program uses file names that begin with . (i.e. contain > only an extension) to denote files that are, by default, > not listed. In view of the nonexistence of extensions on Unix filesystems, it should be obvious that this cannot be a correct characterization of things. If you read the man page for ls, it says nothing about extensions. "-a" or "--all" indicates "do not ignore entries starting with ." Look at GCC documentation. Does it say "behaviour is based on file extension?" No. It says: "For any given input file, the file name suffix determines what kind of compilation is done" > So, the original point is true, but only to a point. > The concept "you have no NEED to use extensions in Unix" > is useful for people to know. However, any phrasing of that > concept that implies "you should not use extensions in Unix" > is just plain wrong. So, be careful about how urgently you > present that message. No, I don't take any of it back. There are no extensions on Unix. The documentation for the respective programs clearly demonstrates this. Using the term "extension" instead of "suffix" or "pattern" is sure to cause confusion, as it doesn't reflect the way things work. This isn't VMS or TOPS-10 or MVS or CP/M; we don't have no steenking extensions. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 20:02:25 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:02:25 -0500 Subject: OT: Copyright law changes could leave consumers vulnerable In-Reply-To: <45AAC3A2.3080702-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <45AAC3A2.3080702@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: On 1/14/07, Meng Cheah wrote: > > http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2007/01/11/copyright-canada.html > > Ever recorded a television show or a movie so you can watch it later? Or > ripped a CD so you can listen to it on your MP3 player? > > With changes to Canada's copyright laws expected as early as next month, > these mundane 21st century activities could theoretically be open to > prosecution ? unless the Conservative government steps in with expanded > "fair use" or "fair dealing" protections for consumers. I think this is a tempest in a teapot .. the doctrine of fair use is well accepted, and this applies to moving works from one media to another -- if I own a CD (we used to call them albums) it's perfectly fine to transfer them to another medium like an MP3 player (we used to record to tape). Making your own mix CD (we used to call them party tapes) from your own library of recordings is probably still covered under fair use, while buying a CD and making copies for all your friends (whether or not you get paid) is *not* fair use. Not much of a change, I think. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 19:56:21 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:56:21 +0000 Subject: Unix file extensions (Was: make apache2 serve file as htmL...) In-Reply-To: <20070114181630.0c7101b7.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070112190759.GA4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070114181630.0c7101b7.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: On 1/14/07, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 21:46:10 +0000 > "Christopher Browne" wrote: > > > > If you examine filesystem code, you'll find that there Is No Such > > Thing As A File Extension. They don't exist. They aren't supported. > > (Well, they are in msdosfs and ISO9660, which, respectively, emulate > > FSes from Microsoft and DEC. But not in the *usual* Unixy > > filesystems...) > > > > Unix programming tools don't use them, either. > > > > Unix programming tools often use file suffixes to infer information > > about file type, but a suffix is not the same thing as an "extension." > > Christopher, > > It looks like I am going to have to transition from FVWM and the file mananger XFM to the Gnome distributed with Fedora Core_5. It is too bad, since XFM can use magic files to identify stuff. You do not need file extensions. > > Progress -- two steps forward, one step back. I hope. Unfortunately, Nautilus wound up designed (not surprisingly, when written by Mac folk who expected a "magic number" on their former platform) to depend on suffix information to identify stuff. I was unhappy with this, and expressed opinion, at the time. As you have observed, /etc/magic can be used to provide signatures to identify stuff, generally with a LOT more accuracy than file extensions ever offered. Unfortunately, that accuracy comes at a cost: You have to read roughly the first 500 bytes of each file in order to match it against /etc/magic. Which, for a directory with a large number of entries, means a lot of I/O. That was why the Nautilus maintainers declined to use /etc/magic by default :-(. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 20:03:30 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 20:03:30 +0000 Subject: Job Scheduling In-Reply-To: <20070115194700.GC5356-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070115194700.GC5356@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On 1/15/07, Neil Watson wrote: > On Sat, Jan 13, 2007 at 09:48:51PM -0500, Simon wrote: > >That article's at least 8 years old. Are you sure that today's cron > >schedulers don't already do these things? > > I do not believe that cron can be centrally controlled nor does it > understand job dependency. One has to look to enterprise schedulers, > like Tivoli, for these features. RIght. It is rather disappointing that we have theoretically progressed 8 years, since then, but nonetheless *don't* have anything more sophisticated than traditional cron for job scheduling. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 15:47:27 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:47:27 +0000 Subject: Unix file extensions (Was: make apache2 serve file as htmL...) In-Reply-To: <20070115160255.GA18230-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20070112190759.GA4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070115160255.GA18230@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: On 1/15/07, John Macdonald wrote: > On Sun, Jan 14, 2007 at 10:51:04PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > > On 1/12/07, John Macdonald wrote: > > >On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 04:40:24PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: > > >> [...] (Aside: People seem to keep forgetting that > > >> Unix has NO SUCH THING as a "file extension." It's not MS-DOS. It's > > >> not VMS. It's not MVS. All of those systems had special portions of > > >> filenames known as an "extension." Unix doesn't do that.) > > > > > >Unix, the operating system kernel, has no special meaning or > > >support for file extensions. It does, however, permit users > > >to use any conventions they like to organize their files. The > > >only rules enforced by the operating system about file names are: > > > > > >- no slash in a file name (reserved for directory separator) > > >- no null in a file name (reserved for string terminator in system calls) > > >- "." and ".." are reserved for directory layout > > >- each type of file system has its own additional limitations, in > > >particular > > > the maximum length of a file name is a property of the particular file > > > system type > > > > Right. This doesn't change that filenames have one single namespace, > > not two, as is the case on all those other OSes. > > > > >On the other hand, Unix, the programming environment, has always > > >made use of file extensions to manage files. > > > > Nonsense. It never has, which should be blatantly obvious in view > > that Unix never had a separate namespace for file "extensions." > > Only a small part of the programming environment depends upon > what is enforced by the operating system and file system, > and that part is not really considered a required part of the > programming environment. Until BSD FFS came along, filenames > were restricted to 14 characters maximum, but as newer file > systems provided fewer restrictions the programming environment > continued work, just with fewer restrictions. Fewer restrictions, sure. Separate namespaces have not been introduced. > > Look at GCC documentation. Does it say "behaviour is based on file > > extension?" No. It says: > > > > "For any given input file, the file name suffix determines what kind > > of compilation is done" > > It also says: > > "You might also like to precompile a C header file with a .h > extension to be used in C++ compilations." > > and: > > "When used in combination with the -x command line option, > -save-temps is sensible enough to avoid over writing an input > source file with the same extension as an intermediate file." > > and: > > "-x assembler-with-cpp > Specify the source language: C, C++, Objective-C, or assembly. > This has nothing to do with standards conformance or extensions; it > merely selects which base syntax to expect. If you give none of > these options, cpp will deduce the language from the extension of > the source file: .c, .cc, .m, or .S. Some other common extensions > for C++ and assembly are also recognized. If cpp does not recog- > nize the extension, it will treat the file as C; this is the most > generic mode." > > and: > > "-fpreprocessed is implicit if the input file has one of the > extensions .i, .ii or .mi. These are the extensions that GCC > uses for preprocessed files created by -save-temps." > > So, the gcc man page does not agree with you that file name > suffices may not be called extensions unless they are enforced > by the operating system and/or file system. I guess I should submit a bug report. Because There Are No Extensions on many of the relevant platforms. > Browsing through the vim help pages (for syntax highlighting) > I also see lots of usage of extension to denote file name > suffices that specify the type of contents that are expected > to be found in the file. > > > >So, the original point is true, but only to a point. > > >The concept "you have no NEED to use extensions in Unix" > > >is useful for people to know. However, any phrasing of that > > >concept that implies "you should not use extensions in Unix" > > >is just plain wrong. So, be careful about how urgently you > > >present that message. > > > > No, I don't take any of it back. There are no extensions on Unix. > > Unix does not have what *you* call extensions, but that viewpoint > is not adopted by the world at large. > > > The documentation for the respective programs clearly demonstrates this. > > It clearly demonstrates that using program suffices to denote > the type of content in a file is called "file name extension", > even on Unix systems. That primarily demonstrates that the Unix community has seen an enormous influx of clueless Windows users who don't understand the difference and who have added things wrongly to the documentation. > > Using the term "extension" instead of "suffix" or "pattern" is sure to > > cause confusion, as it doesn't reflect the way things work. This > > isn't VMS or TOPS-10 or MVS or CP/M; we don't have no steenking > > extensions. > > Denying a term that is in common use is more likely to cause > confusion than using it for in a situation that is enforced > differently but generally has the same function. > > While VMS, TOP-10, MVS, and CP/M (and numerous others) have > OS enforcement of extensions, they are surely inconsistant > with each other about exactly what the full ramifications are. > > Do you next say that CP/M doesn't *really* have extensions > because they aren't automatically tied into version control > (another suffix usage on VMS)? No, because I'm not stupid. CP/M has extensions because its filesystems support a separate namespace devoted to providing them. VMS has multiple forms of extensions. But Unix doesn't. And its tools don't. Even if suffixes have been wrongly termed "extensions" in some fragments of documentation. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 14 01:14:30 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 20:14:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Why english is important In-Reply-To: <1e55af990701091103w17e3472at3c77de0fed164037-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1e55af990701091103w17e3472at3c77de0fed164037@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Jan 2007, Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/9/07, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> If you are going to write phishing emails, it's *really* important to get >> the english language correct. For example: > > I've seen some truly hilarious spam messages.. but what boggles the > mind is that it appears that perfect English might not be as important > as you and I would think. > > I'm in the midst of reading a book, and if I were a copyeditor of some > sort, I'd have hung myself in protest. > > But it got published nontheless.. =/ I have a printed visa for Syria in my old passport. It contains a number of basic spelling and gramatical errors in the printed text of the visa. Eg, "Numbar of Journeys?". Next time I'm in Australia (where my old passport is) I'll scan it for the amusement of all. Every country on Earth has a large number of people fluent in English. I expect the University of Damascus has an English department so I am at a loss to understand how a sovereign nation could make such basic mistakes in an important official document. Oh well, it was a good laugh :) Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 20:12:38 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:12:38 -0500 Subject: Syncing PDA In-Reply-To: <20070108232918.GJ17268-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070106220429.GA5781@watson-wilson.ca> <20070108203154.GG17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070108205057.GD30208@watson-wilson.ca> <20070108212415.GH17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070108213139.GE30208@watson-wilson.ca> <20070108232918.GJ17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070115201238.GD5356@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 at 06:29:18PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >Being able to unload a module when you have a problem with it is worth a >lot of time, easily a lot more than solving any initrd problem ever >takes. Taking Len's advice I installed the Debian kernel. The problem persisted until I unload the ehci USB module. Then syncing began working. However, my own clumsiness resulting in my purging useful data from my PDA. Luckily I had a backup at work. Now comes the search for calendar, todo and contacts software that works with the PDA. I currently use remind and abook but, I do not believe they sync with PalmOS. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 2 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 19:52:07 2007 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:52:07 -0500 Subject: Unix file extensions (Was: make apache2 serve file as htmL...) In-Reply-To: References: <20070112190759.GA4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070115160255.GA18230@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20070115195207.GB18230@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 03:47:27PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 1/15/07, John Macdonald wrote: > >So, the gcc man page does not agree with you that file name > >suffices may not be called extensions unless they are enforced > >by the operating system and/or file system. > > I guess I should submit a bug report. > > Because There Are No Extensions on many of the relevant platforms. Well, you can also submit similar bug reports for man pages for: a2ping apropos apt-ftparchive bibtex bison brltty c++, c, cpp (generated from source text related to the gcc man page source) capinfos cli compose ctangle, cweave, cweb cue2toc dar, dar_static dh_compress, dh_installchangelogs, dh_installman, dh_installmanpages dir, dircolors, ls dpkg-name dvipdfm, dvips, dvitype You can also check for usage of "extension" for man1 pages starting with e-z (I recognized "ls" in passing through "dir"), and then check sections other than 1 for additional "misuses" of the word extension. Or you could consider that maybe people use extension to mean a suffix that denotes the contents of a file because that usage is a useful concept, and few people care about the far less important distinction of whether or not the extension's meaning is enforced by the operating system. In the rare cases where extension enforcement is important, it can be explicitly noted. I've sertainly been using "extension" to mean "suffix denoting file content type" on Unix systems since the days before VAXes existed. The name probably came from TOP-10 (but it was also used in some way on IBM's CP/CMS if I recall correctly, so there may have been other origins), but the concept has been useful on Unix all along. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 13 00:31:45 2007 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 19:31:45 -0500 Subject: Government spooks helped Microsoft build Vista In-Reply-To: <1e55af990701121423s6e07c4dby32595d1be6c801e0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1168632991.3963.112.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45A7F5D8.1060809@rogers.com> <20070112225809.GB4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1e55af990701121423s6e07c4dby32595d1be6c801e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168648305.3963.176.camel@spot1.localhost.com> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 16:23 -0600, Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/12/07, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > Does anyone have suggestions for long term IT strategies that won't land > > me on a terrorist list? Is RedHat really the only large non-Microsoft > > shop? > > You just used the big "t" word alongside your real name. You're > already flagged. ;) > > But more seriously, I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you > looking to start a non-Microsoft-OS discussion? > > I don't want to start/join a non-Microsoft-OS discussion but it may be a good idea. Now that Microsoft oddly enough gained market share illegally will continue to be the OS of choice for government and will be protected as a US munition. Who says crime doesn't pay? What are the options to eliminate Microsoft products (possibly even Novell) from a company IT repertoire? I know Debian, Xandros and Ubuntu are popular but lack any long term impact on the market. Most distributions are not US based. This has advantages and disadvantages. Non US based distributions lack market capitalization resulting in more complex support arrangements. Berkley OS (Unix) require significant programming skills and are not commercially supported. So this leaves RedHat. IBM, HP and other Unixes are a world unto themselves. If SCO wasn't so stupid they would be a good choice. -- "Friends don't let friends use windows. Show a suffering windows user Linux today." http://www.TorontoNUI.ca > On 1/12/07, John Macdonald wrote: > > It is also their responsibility to ensure that the U.S. is > > capable of getting intelligence from foreign lands. As Bruce > > Schneier points out in his blog (Jan 9 about 10 entries > > ago right now http://www.schneier.com/blog/), these two > > responsibilities are opposed when they are examining popular > > software. Do they report problems so they can be fixed so > > that U.S. government use is safer, or do they leave them in > > so they can be used to spy on the rest of the world? > > A while back, an international collaboration of crackers ended up > forcing the NSA etc to work together to provide significant security > hole-finding resources to a number of companies. For free. > > At this point, holes in Windows are best plugged than left open. > Home-soil is too vulnerable to bother taking advantage of the > international application of security holes. > > There are other ways to open holes in installations, for > "informational" purposes. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- "Friends don't let friends use windows. Show a suffering windows user Linux today." http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 13 02:39:07 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 21:39:07 -0500 Subject: Government spooks helped Microsoft build Vista In-Reply-To: <20070112225809.GB4144-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <1168632991.3963.112.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45A7F5D8.1060809@rogers.com> <20070112225809.GB4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <45A8464B.8060900@rogers.com> John Macdonald wrote: > On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 03:55:52PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > >> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: >> >>> Looks like corruption is rife in the US with the NSA allegedly >>> supporting Microsoft. Looks like soon it will be anti-American to not >>> support Microsoft. (Bush-if you're not for us your against us) Now >>> Novell is in with Microsoft. I don't know why I bother to continue to >>> support Novell. http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36814 >>> >>> Does anyone have suggestions for long term IT strategies that won't land >>> me on a terrorist list? Is RedHat really the only large non-Microsoft >>> shop? >>> RickT >>> >>> >>> >> Please bear in mind that it is the responsibility of the NSA to ensure >> software is secure for certain government uses. Any software that's to >> be used has to be certified. >> The list includes Unix, Windows, Netware and many others. Getting the >> NSA to say your software is secure, is not selling out. The NSA >> produced a secure version of Red Hat a few years ago. >> > > It is also their responsibility to ensure that the U.S. is > capable of getting intelligence from foreign lands. As Bruce > Schneier points out in his blog (Jan 9 about 10 entries > ago right now http://www.schneier.com/blog/), these two > responsibilities are opposed when they are examining popular > software. Do they report problems so they can be fixed so > that U.S. government use is safer, or do they leave them in > so they can be used to spy on the rest of the world? > > Given that Linux is open source, it'd be hard for them to hide something in it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 13 02:35:57 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 21:35:57 -0500 Subject: Unix file extensions (Was: make apache2 serve file as htmL...) In-Reply-To: <1e55af990701121406y4dab485aw70a72a899dd9ec2a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070112190759.GA4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1e55af990701121406y4dab485aw70a72a899dd9ec2a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45A8458D.4080208@rogers.com> Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/12/07, Christopher Browne wrote: >> Unix programming tools often use file suffixes to infer information >> about file type, but a suffix is not the same thing as an "extension." > > File suffixes rock.. I still laugh when I see 8.3 filenames. > > Imagine a unix server with a website with all 8.3 filenames.. oh the > hilarity. I remember when I switched from DOS & 8.3 file names to OS/2, with up to 254 character file names. Again, OS/2 didn't rely on file name suffixes, but could use them. It used extended attributes (up to 65K bytes!), so that the file "knew" what application could open it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 20:41:27 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:41:27 -0500 Subject: Why english is important In-Reply-To: References: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1e55af990701091103w17e3472at3c77de0fed164037@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45ABE6F7.7090407@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > > I have a printed visa for Syria in my old passport. It contains a > number of basic spelling and gramatical errors in the printed text of > the visa. Eg, "Numbar of Journeys?". Next time I'm in Australia > (where my old passport is) I'll scan it for the amusement of all. Perhaps, while you're down there, you could also teach the Australians how to speak English. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 12 22:54:05 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 22:54:05 +0000 Subject: Job Scheduling In-Reply-To: <200701121737.13656.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200701121737.13656.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: On 1/12/07, Marc Lijour wrote: > If you use Java you coud look at the Quartz scheduler, you mention it. > I used it and I have no complaints. It looks solid and you can use cron > expressions ;-) I suspect that one's not much of an answer because it seems to only be an answer for Java-based applications. And many of our applications that need to be coordinated are NOT written in Java... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 13 19:39:27 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 14:39:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: (OT) Re:Why english is important In-Reply-To: <45A5A7CA.6050901-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1168468038.23496.352.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <45A5A7CA.6050901@telly.org> Message-ID: | From: Evan Leibovitch | This past weekend, I was shopping for Calrose (short grain) rice, the | kind used for sushi making. Learn something new every day. I vaguely thought Calrose was a brand name. Wikipedia says it is a variety of medium-grain rice. We call it short grain. We generally get Kokuho Rose from California http://www.kodafarms.com/ That seems to be both a variety of rice AND a brand name. Confusing. | At the T&T Asian supermarket in Promenade Mall, I purchased an 8kg bag | of Tiger King brand rice. Not only was it inexpensive, but the colorful | use of language in its description won me over (transcribed verbatim, | including caps and punctuation): Beware of agricultural products from China. Their use of pesticides and "nightsoil" is not controlled as well as in the first world. | PS: I highly recommend a trip to one of Toronto's T&T supermarkets; this | ain't no Loblaws. It's way more like Loblaws than other asian food stores we have been to. It is larger and cleaner and more anglophone. We like it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pallen3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 20:56:12 2007 From: pallen3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Patrick Allen) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:56:12 -0500 Subject: ISP Suggestions for the Burlington area Message-ID: <45ABEA6C.8020809@cogeco.ca> Greetings, I'd hoped that I could move and still keep my current ISP. But unfortunately that will not be possible. So I'm looking for suggestions from folk that have had dealings with highspeed providers in the Burlington area. (Cogeco not available at my location) Any information is appreciated. :) -- Patrick Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 20:49:20 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:49:20 -0500 Subject: OT: Copyright law changes could leave consumers vulnerable In-Reply-To: References: <45AAC3A2.3080702@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <45ABE8D0.8070601@rogers.com> Alex Beamish wrote: > On 1/14/07, *Meng Cheah* > wrote: > > http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2007/01/11/copyright-canada.html > > Ever recorded a television show or a movie so you can watch it > later? Or > ripped a CD so you can listen to it on your MP3 player? > > With changes to Canada's copyright laws expected as early as next > month, > these mundane 21st century activities could theoretically be open to > prosecution ? unless the Conservative government steps in with > expanded > "fair use" or "fair dealing" protections for consumers. > > > I think this is a tempest in a teapot .. the doctrine of fair use is > well accepted, and this applies to moving works from one media to > another -- if I own a CD (we used to call them albums) it's perfectly > fine to transfer them to another medium like an MP3 player (we used to > record to tape). > > Making your own mix CD (we used to call them party tapes) from your > own library of recordings is probably still covered under fair use, > while buying a CD and making copies for all your friends (whether or > not you get paid) is *not* fair use. > > Not much of a change, I think. Until DRM kicks in. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 21:00:51 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:00:51 -0500 Subject: OT: Copyright law changes could leave consumers vulnerable In-Reply-To: <45ABE8D0.8070601-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <45AAC3A2.3080702@pppoe.ca> <45ABE8D0.8070601@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070115210051.GA7580@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 03:49:20PM -0500, James Knott wrote: >>Not much of a change, I think. > >Until DRM kicks in. I'm not too worried about DRM. Things might get bad for a while but I don't think it will last too long. The digital genie is out of her bottle. DRM will not be able to put her back in again. I will not miss our old guard media overlords. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 2 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 21:01:13 2007 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:01:13 -0500 Subject: ISP Suggestions for the Burlington area Message-ID: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A338E@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> Out of Toronto but available here: mycybernet. Don't have a number handy D Dave Bour Desktop Solution Center 905.381.0077 dcbour at desktopsolutioncenter.ca For those who just want it to work... Giving you complete IT peace of mind. (Sent via Blackberry - hence message may be shorter than my usual verbose responses) PIN 3010A5AF (as of June 12, 2006) ----- Original Message ----- From: owner-tlug at ss.org To: tlug at ss.org Sent: Mon Jan 15 15:56:12 2007 Subject: [TLUG]: ISP Suggestions for the Burlington area Greetings, I'd hoped that I could move and still keep my current ISP. But unfortunately that will not be possible. So I'm looking for suggestions from folk that have had dealings with highspeed providers in the Burlington area. (Cogeco not available at my location) Any information is appreciated. :) -- Patrick Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.12/628 - Release Date: 1/15/2007 11:04 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 21:03:30 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:03:30 -0500 Subject: ISP Suggestions for the Burlington area In-Reply-To: <45ABEA6C.8020809-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <45ABEA6C.8020809@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <20070115210330.GB7580@watson-wilson.ca> I think you need to consider your criteria before asking this question. How important is speed? What about reliability? Do you want your connection unfiltered? Do you want a static IP as an option? Do you want service like email or web hosting? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 2 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 21:14:55 2007 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:14:55 -0500 Subject: ISP Suggestions for the Burlington area In-Reply-To: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A338E-hbz38jcr0NLYZa0sO8Gwjj0STfaKdC/d@public.gmane.org> References: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730A338E@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> Message-ID: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730206A66F@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> Now that I've got a real keyboard rather than my blackberry... HYPERLINK "http://mycybernet.net/"http://mycybernet.net/ Been with them about 3 yrs now, recently, became a business reseller for them too, that is I get $30 for every referral that stays 6 months. Can highly recommened them based on personal experience and number of people referred (even prior to incentive program) over the years. My contact is Imtiaz Cheval (905) 947-1801 x 102. I'll avoid posting his email to avoid spamming him via the post since they get archived. If you'd like it, drop me a line offline and I'll send it to you. D. _____ From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Dave Bour Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 4:01 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: ISP Suggestions for the Burlington area Out of Toronto but available here: mycybernet. Don't have a number handy D Dave Bour Desktop Solution Center 905.381.0077 dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org For those who just want it to work... Giving you complete IT peace of mind. (Sent via Blackberry - hence message may be shorter than my usual verbose responses) PIN 3010A5AF (as of June 12, 2006) ----- Original Message ----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Mon Jan 15 15:56:12 2007 Subject: [TLUG]: ISP Suggestions for the Burlington area Greetings, I'd hoped that I could move and still keep my current ISP. But unfortunately that will not be possible. So I'm looking for suggestions from folk that have had dealings with highspeed providers in the Burlington area. (Cogeco not available at my location) Any information is appreciated. :) -- Patrick Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: HYPERLINK "http://gtalug.org/"http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: HYPERLINK "http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists"http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.12/628 - Release Date: 1/15/2007 11:04 AM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.12/628 - Release Date: 1/15/2007 11:04 AM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.12/628 - Release Date: 1/15/2007 11:04 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 21:18:05 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:18:05 -0500 Subject: LVM How-To by Lennart In-Reply-To: <200701122009.15518.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701122009.15518.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20070115211805.GV17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 08:09:15PM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > Thanks for the instructions Lennart. From what stuck in the grey cells from > the HOW-TO, it seemed to make sense. I assume that somewhere in the second > stage I format the 'newdisk' with ext3 to match the present part of the > logical volume? No. You are extending an existing filesystem I imagine. If you don't want to expand an existing logical volume, you can create a new logical volume with lvcreate and format that afterwards. > What I don't understand without going back to the Linux HOW-TO, is the extents > you talked about. The result of vgdisplay for the partition videolv01 is > > PE / Size 1 / 32 MB > > Is the 32 MB what I use for the lvextend command? The vgdisplay should show how many free extents are unused (not used by any logical volume). That is how many extents you can potentially add to any existing logical volume. > Something went disasterously wrong this afternoon, this computer locked up and > I had to power down. When I restarted it, it just wouldn't reboot, about 10 > error messages, ending something like, ' this shouldn't happen, but it did '. > Nothing like a programmer with a sense of humor. > > At any rate, tonight after supper, I fired it up, I think every partition on 2 > drives had errors, this is the first thing I've tried and all of todays > messages are lost somewhere. Luckily I wrote all your instructions down and > was able to check the first 4 steps to see about these extents. Any chance you knocked a cable loose when you were adding the drive? > 'man fsck' doesn't reveal an -f option, perhaps that applies to LVM. I should have said fsck.ext3 -f not just fsck. So what have you done so far? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 21:22:58 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:21:58 +1859 Subject: Government spooks helped Microsoft build Vista In-Reply-To: <45A8464B.8060900-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1168632991.3963.112.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45A7F5D8.1060809@rogers.com> <20070112225809.GB4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> <45A8464B.8060900@rogers.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420701151322s2029c8f3n51ec43c5614d7a28@mail.gmail.com> > Given that Linux is open source, it'd be hard for them to hide something > in it. Given that the kernel is a couple of million lines of code, it might be easier than you think. The hard part is getting it past Linus (and his various lieutenants), but, IIRC, this has happened before. Certainly someone has tried. I remember something about some code that tried something similar to this: if ((currentUserId = 0)) { // benign-looking code } The extra parentheses around the assignment silences the compiler, and you're left hoping that a human reviewer catches the fact that you're assigning zero, not comparing to zero. I can't remember if this particular exploit ever made it into the wild, but I'm certain it was submitted for review. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 21:24:54 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:24:54 -0500 Subject: Why english is important In-Reply-To: References: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1e55af990701091103w17e3472at3c77de0fed164037@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070115212454.GW17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 13, 2007 at 08:14:30PM -0500, Robert Brockway wrote: > I have a printed visa for Syria in my old passport. It contains a number > of basic spelling and gramatical errors in the printed text of the visa. > Eg, "Numbar of Journeys?". Next time I'm in Australia (where my old > passport is) I'll scan it for the amusement of all. > > Every country on Earth has a large number of people fluent in English. I > expect the University of Damascus has an English department so I am at a > loss to understand how a sovereign nation could make such basic mistakes > in an important official document. Oh well, it was a good laugh :) Almost every sign in Legoland (the original one) has Danish, German and English on it. At the bottom of most of them it says: "If you have any questions, please ask our personal." My wife and I thought this was rather amusing, given it was the same error on every single sign. Given how well done the english usually is on the packaging from Lego, it seemed rather strange that no one had bothered to fix this yet. Never mind that they only bothered to write half the information for the english part of the signs for most things. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 21:25:36 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:25:36 -0500 Subject: Why english is important In-Reply-To: <45ABE6F7.7090407-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1e55af990701091103w17e3472at3c77de0fed164037@mail.gmail.com> <45ABE6F7.7090407@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070115212536.GX17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 03:41:27PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > Perhaps, while you're down there, you could also teach the Australians > how to speak English. ;-) What do they speak now? Never had a problem speaking to any of the people I have met from Australia. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 21:30:22 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:30:22 -0500 Subject: Odd debian kernel install problem In-Reply-To: <20070113004352.GA7628-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070113004352.GA7628@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070115213022.GY17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 07:43:52PM -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > I'm trying to install a Debian kernel: > ettin:/boot# apt-get -V install kernel-image-2.6-686-smp > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree... Done > The following NEW packages will be installed: > kernel-image-2.6-686-smp (2.6.18+5) > 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 64 not upgraded. > Need to get 1972B of archives. > After unpacking 32.8kB of additional disk space will be used. > Get:1 http://debian.yorku.ca testing/main kernel-image-2.6-686-smp > 1:2.6.18+5 [1972B] > Fetched 1972B in 0s (13.2kB/s) > Selecting previously deselected package kernel-image-2.6-686-smp. > (Reading database ... 81432 files and directories currently > installed.) > Unpacking kernel-image-2.6-686-smp (from > .../kernel-image-2.6-686-smp_1%3a2.6.18+5_i386.deb) ... > Setting up kernel-image-2.6-686-smp (2.6.18+5) ... > > However, nothing seems to be installed. There are no new files in / or > /boot. Where is the kernel and the initrd? That package should depend on another package. Oh and I think debian now calls them 'linux-image-...' rather than 'kernel-image-...'. Maybe that makes a difference. I think the package you want is: linux-image-2.6-686 which should depend on: linux-image-2.6.18-686 You can optionally install linux-image-2.6-686-smp which simply depends on linux-image-2.6-686 (all debian's kernels appear to be SMP enabled now). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 21:37:43 2007 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John M. Moniz) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:37:43 -0500 Subject: Why english is important In-Reply-To: <20070115212536.GX17268-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1e55af990701091103w17e3472at3c77de0fed164037@mail.gmail.com> <45ABE6F7.7090407@rogers.com> <20070115212536.GX17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45ABF427.2080607@sympatico.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 03:41:27PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > > >>Perhaps, while you're down there, you could also teach the Australians >>how to speak English. ;-) >> >> > >What do they speak now? Never had a problem speaking to any of the >people I have met from Australia. > >-- >Len Sorensen > I think it's called Strine... :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 21:33:53 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:33:53 -0500 Subject: Syncing PDA In-Reply-To: <20070115201238.GD5356-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070106220429.GA5781@watson-wilson.ca> <20070108203154.GG17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070108205057.GD30208@watson-wilson.ca> <20070108212415.GH17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070108213139.GE30208@watson-wilson.ca> <20070108232918.GJ17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070115201238.GD5356@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <1f13df280701151333p2a36f187udbf9ce3327504fbb@mail.gmail.com> On 1/15/07, Neil Watson wrote: > Now comes the search for calendar, todo and contacts software that works > with the PDA. I currently use remind and abook but, I do not believe > they sync with PalmOS. I use jpilot (http://www.jpilot.org/ , available as a package for most distros) and have for about five years. A couple years back it was miles ahead of kpilot (http://cvs.codeyard.net/kpilot/) - I doubt that's the case anymore but look into both yourself. Syncing to jpilot doesn't preclude using other sync methods such as the Palm desktop on Windows or pilot-xfer. Both of [jk]pilot are GUIs, not text-based. One advantage that jpilot retains is that it's small and has very few dependencies. If you find a text-based app that syncs all the info off a Palm, let me know! Also useful: txt2pdbdoc, which allows conversion of text files to .pdb format, readable by Palm Reader. (I've had better luck with txt2pdbdoc than bibelot recently.) http://freshmeat.net/projects/p5-palm/ is interesting - it still works, although it's dated - uses perl for limited command line access to Palm database files (thanks to David Patrick for pointing this one out to me). And finally - I have no idea if this works, I didn't even look at the home page, but it came up when I was trying to locate p5-palm: http://freshmeat.net/projects/perlabook/ . It claims to use perl to sync a Palm DB with abook. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 21:36:24 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:36:24 -0500 Subject: LVM and MythTV In-Reply-To: <200701131509.12602.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701121202.56429.mervc@eol.ca> <20070112175643.GU17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200701131509.12602.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20070115213624.GZ17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 13, 2007 at 03:09:12PM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > response is free PE / Size 1 / 32MB > > Is this what I should see?, I use ??? for the extent in the next line. What is the full output of vgdisplay of your volumegroup? I would expect to see something like: rceng02:/debian/rr1/dists/rr1/sandbox/ruggedbase# vgdisplay --- Volume group --- VG Name MainVG System ID Format lvm2 Metadata Areas 1 Metadata Sequence No 10 VG Access read/write VG Status resizable MAX LV 0 Cur LV 3 Open LV 3 Max PV 0 Cur PV 1 Act PV 1 VG Size 204.82 GB PE Size 4.00 MB Total PE 52434 Alloc PE / Size 52434 / 204.82 GB Free PE / Size 0 / 0 VG UUID soZK9G-fPmn-x05Z-kIsd-w11q-e8b0-WgT7Fg Since I am using all the space for logical volumes, I have 0 / 0 Free PEs (Physical Extents). If you create a new PV and add it to the VG, you should have more PEs free which can then be used to extend existing LVs or create new LVs. > I assume that I make an ext3 filesystem before I mount it? Only if you are making a new logical volume. If you are expanding an existing one, you already have a filesystem. > The drive I am adding, was used before, for a week, on another computer for > this same Myth distro and is formatted and set up exactly like this new > install. I can't figure out what goes in fstab for hdb3 [ a LVM the same as > hda3 ] so I could mount it and maybe copy some stuff over before I delete the > 3 partitions to make one big partition. Could I express myself worse? I > think the problem is in the /dev section. Trying to access an lvm from another system is not trivial (it can be done, but it can be a real pain). You would have to scan for the physical volumes, then assemble the volume group and activate it, then mount the logical volume. You can't simply mount it since you need to bring up the lvm first. -- Len SOrensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 21:38:07 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:38:07 -0500 Subject: Syncing PDA In-Reply-To: <20070115201238.GD5356-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070106220429.GA5781@watson-wilson.ca> <20070108203154.GG17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070108205057.GD30208@watson-wilson.ca> <20070108212415.GH17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070108213139.GE30208@watson-wilson.ca> <20070108232918.GJ17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070115201238.GD5356@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070115213807.GA17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 03:12:38PM -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > Taking Len's advice I installed the Debian kernel. The problem > persisted until I unload the ehci USB module. Then syncing began > working. However, my own clumsiness resulting in my purging useful data > from my PDA. Luckily I had a backup at work. I don't know what is wrong with the ehci driver lately. It used to work great and now someone seriously busted it. > Now comes the search for calendar, todo and contacts software that works > with the PDA. I currently use remind and abook but, I do not believe > they sync with PalmOS. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 21:45:10 2007 From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Matt) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:45:10 -0500 Subject: ISP Suggestions for the Burlington area In-Reply-To: <45ABEA6C.8020809-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <45ABEA6C.8020809@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <1168897510.5318.4.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> I think TekSavvy is available in Burlington. I've got them now, and they're pretty good - rates are pretty much the average, no major downtime, and I got a static IP (they charge for it, but it's $4...no biggie). On Mon, 2007-01-15 at 15:56 -0500, Patrick Allen wrote: > Greetings, > > I'd hoped that I could move and still keep my current ISP. But unfortunately > that will not be possible. So I'm looking for suggestions from folk that have > had dealings with highspeed providers in the Burlington area. (Cogeco not > available at my location) > > Any information is appreciated. :) > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pallen3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 21:45:37 2007 From: pallen3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Patrick Allen) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:45:37 -0500 Subject: ISP Suggestions for the Burlington area In-Reply-To: <20070115210330.GB7580-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <45ABEA6C.8020809@cogeco.ca> <20070115210330.GB7580@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <45ABF601.50306@cogeco.ca> Neil Watson wrote: > I think you need to consider your criteria before asking this question. I figured I'd delve into the nitty gritty myself once I had list of potentials to look at. Basically I'm just looking for a "home" connection. So things like speed and reliability need to have a balance with price. Regards, -- Patrick Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 22:06:33 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 17:06:33 -0500 Subject: ISP Suggestions for the Burlington area In-Reply-To: <20070115210330.GB7580-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <45ABEA6C.8020809@cogeco.ca> <20070115210330.GB7580@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070115220633.GB17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 04:03:30PM -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > I think you need to consider your criteria before asking this question. > How important is speed? What about reliability? Do you want your > connection unfiltered? Do you want a static IP as an option? Do you > want service like email or web hosting? And of course transfer quotas, penalties for exceeding said qoutas, etc. Surprisingly many ISPs make this information extremely difficult to find. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 22:08:34 2007 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 17:08:34 -0500 Subject: (k)ubuntu: howto prevent lp module from loading at boot? In-Reply-To: <20070110220311.GN17268-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1168444042.26211.50.camel@localhost> <45A524BA.2040706@buynet.com> <20070110220311.GN17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45ABFB62.8050209@buynet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 12:39:06PM -0500, Herb Richter wrote: >>I need to prevent the lp module from automatically loading at boot up on >>a kubuntu *1 workstation (so that a vmware *2 guest os can access "lpt1") [cut] > > Something like: > > ----- > /etc/modprobe.d/disablelp: > alias lp off > ----- > > That might do it. Yes, this works well, and has been quite stable over these last few days. ...a very elegant solution. Herb Richter... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFq/tiU+pQaeEFGGARAsNLAJ9B5IbWtskcd1ZiKbEIvUznaOtS+ACfWg3H 00wT+5gXIL67qYZ42J/8Vp8= =AdXZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 22:12:38 2007 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 17:12:38 -0500 Subject: Government spooks helped Microsoft build Vista In-Reply-To: <45ABDF93.40706-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <1168632991.3963.112.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45A7F5D8.1060809@rogers.com> <1168635368.3963.118.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45ABA759.9020105@yahoo.ca> <1168877453.3961.36.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45ABDF93.40706@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <1168899158.4944.9.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Not everybody is as informed on all aspects of IT as you are. I actually get some email commending me on some of my postings. I've traveled throughout the US and have been to many well known companies plant facilities. IT is a small part of industry. I may not be 100% informed on IT but I do know about industry and free speech. I may not please everyone but I do have freedom and the right to freely use software at heart. Peace. On Mon, 2007-01-15 at 15:09 -0500, Stephen Allen wrote: > Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > If you don't like it don't read it...stupid. > > Actually it would be nice if you wouldn't keep posting your stupid shite > URLs all the time -- and keep to relevant stuff that you have some clue > about. > > > On Mon, 2007-01-15 at 11:10 -0500, Stephen Allen wrote: > >> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > >>> I appreciate the reply. I wasn't aware of that. > >> You would have if you did a minimum of checking of facts before posting. > >> > >> I personally would prefer people check some facts before sending > >> sensational material to the list. You seem to do this regularly and it's > >> often NOT all that interesting, quite frankly. > >> > >> Most of us here already read our news online, so for me personally, this > >> is old news (even if it's tabloid sensationalism). > >> > >>> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 15:55 -0500, James Knott wrote: > >>>> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > >>>>> Looks like corruption is rife in the US with the NSA allegedly > >>>>> supporting Microsoft. Looks like soon it will be anti-American to not > >>>>> support Microsoft. (Bush-if you're not for us your against us) Now > >>>>> Novell is in with Microsoft. I don't know why I bother to continue to > >>>>> support Novell. http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36814 > >>>>> > >>>>> Does anyone have suggestions for long term IT strategies that won't land > >>>>> me on a terrorist list? Is RedHat really the only large non-Microsoft > >>>>> shop? > >>>>> RickT > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> Please bear in mind that it is the responsibility of the NSA to ensure > >>>> software is secure for certain government uses. Any software that's to > >>>> be used has to be certified. > >>>> The list includes Unix, Windows, Netware and many others. Getting the > >>>> NSA to say your software is secure, is not selling out. The NSA > >>>> produced a secure version of Red Hat a few years ago. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >>>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >>>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > >> __________________________________________________ > >> Do You Yahoo!? > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > >> http://mail.yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com -- "Friends don't let friends use windows. Show a suffering windows user Linux today." http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 22:14:36 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 17:14:36 -0500 Subject: (k)ubuntu: howto prevent lp module from loading at boot? In-Reply-To: <45ABFB62.8050209-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1168444042.26211.50.camel@localhost> <45A524BA.2040706@buynet.com> <20070110220311.GN17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45ABFB62.8050209@buynet.com> Message-ID: <20070115221436.GC17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 05:08:34PM -0500, Herb Richter wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 12:39:06PM -0500, Herb Richter wrote: > >>I need to prevent the lp module from automatically loading at boot up on > >>a kubuntu *1 workstation (so that a vmware *2 guest os can access "lpt1") > [cut] > > > > Something like: > > > > ----- > > /etc/modprobe.d/disablelp: > > alias lp off > > ----- > > > > That might do it. > > Yes, this works well, and has been quite stable over these last few days. > > ...a very elegant solution. I tend to prefer elegant and robust over some hard to understand hack. :) I am surprised the lp module got in the way of something though. Usually it shares the port quite nicely. Maybe it is the other user of the port that isn't sharing nicely. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 22:47:53 2007 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 17:47:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: old computers for free In-Reply-To: <7ac602420701151322s2029c8f3n51ec43c5614d7a28-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420701151322s2029c8f3n51ec43c5614d7a28@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070115224753.2115.qmail@web61313.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, My organization has some old computers (keyboards, mice and monitors as well) which might be useful as SOHO servers/gateway and sandbox projects. If anyone is interested please contact me off list. EK --------------------------------- All new Yahoo! Mail --------------------------------- Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 23:02:04 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:02:04 +0000 Subject: Why english is important In-Reply-To: References: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1e55af990701091103w17e3472at3c77de0fed164037@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 1/14/07, Robert Brockway wrote: > I have a printed visa for Syria in my old passport. It contains a number > of basic spelling and gramatical errors in the printed text of the visa. > Eg, "Numbar of Journeys?". Next time I'm in Australia (where my old > passport is) I'll scan it for the amusement of all. > > Every country on Earth has a large number of people fluent in English. I > expect the University of Damascus has an English department so I am at a > loss to understand how a sovereign nation could make such basic mistakes > in an important official document. Oh well, it was a good laugh :) No, this doesn't surprise me. In a lot of 3rd world nations, getting exact English grammar correct on bureaucratic documents *isn't* the #1 "best usage" of the people that are highly skilled at colloquial American/British English. The *best* usage of such people is likely to be in the area of sales and marketing, making sure that local stuff gets sold abroad or that foreign stuff gets purchased with the greatest effectiveness. If the grammar on government documents is more "approximate," as long as it isn't actually causing problems, it's not so much a priority. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 23:20:40 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:20:40 +0000 Subject: good deal on Nokia 770? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1/13/07, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I haven't kept track of the prices but tigerdirect.ca is offering the > Nokia 770 for $359.97. I imagine that this is good. Perhaps it implies > that they are being dumped. There's supposed to be a new set of models, the 870 and 880. If they went thru FCC filings in October, as indicated below... http://www.jzencovich.com/2006/10/29/nokia-870880-confirmed/ ... then it makes a lot of sense that Nokia might be starting to remainder the remainders so that they can start hawking the new models. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 23:43:32 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:43:32 -0500 Subject: Syncing PDA In-Reply-To: <20070115213807.GA17268-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070106220429.GA5781@watson-wilson.ca> <20070108203154.GG17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070108205057.GD30208@watson-wilson.ca> <20070108212415.GH17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070108213139.GE30208@watson-wilson.ca> <20070108232918.GJ17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070115201238.GD5356@watson-wilson.ca> <20070115213807.GA17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070115234332.GA8630@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 04:38:07PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >I don't know what is wrong with the ehci driver lately. It used to >work great and now someone seriously busted it. Since the kernel group retired the odd and even kernel trees I've had more issues than in the past. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 2 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 15 23:56:56 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:56:56 -0500 Subject: good deal on Nokia 770? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45AC14C8.2050102@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 1/13/07, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> I haven't kept track of the prices but tigerdirect.ca is offering the >> Nokia 770 for $359.97. I imagine that this is good. Perhaps it implies >> that they are being dumped. > > There's supposed to be a new set of models, the 870 and 880. > > If they went thru FCC filings in October, as indicated below... > http://www.jzencovich.com/2006/10/29/nokia-870880-confirmed/ > ... then it makes a lot of sense that Nokia might be starting to > remainder the remainders so that they can start hawking the new > models. The N800 was released last week. It's $509 at Tiger Direct. http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9981902594.html http://www.nokiausa.com/N800 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 00:11:54 2007 From: paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org (Paul Nash) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:11:54 -0500 Subject: Zoom 5801 ATA config Message-ID: I've been messing around with a Zoom 5801 ATA, talking to one of my Asterisk boxen, and suspect that I have broken the configuration rather badly. When I call the extension in question, I can see a SIP INVITE going to the ATA, which responds with a SIP RINGING. However, the handset does not ring, and if I go off-hook, the ATA does not respond. Similarly, when I go off-hook, I get a dialtone, but if I dial, there is no SIP traffic. It's a while since I played with this box, but I think that it did work once :-). Does anyone know how to reset it to a default factory config? I've tried their "hold the reset button for 5 seconds", which doesn't help, and I've tried holding the reset button while applying power. Alternatively, anyone have a simple config guide -- Zoom's docs would do Micro$oft proud, listing every feature but giving little or no explanation of what the options mean. Sigh. I *had* hoped to use it to bridge incoming PSTN calls into Asterisk, and give me another outgoing path, but it looks like it will do FXO or FXS, but not both at the same time. paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 00:36:21 2007 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:36:21 -0500 Subject: [OT] International Roaming Internet Access Message-ID: <45AC1E05.4000109@rogers.com> I am on a project that has me traveling to Australia and the US. The hotels are charging very high rates for Internet access. I seem to recall someone offered satellite service, but I can't find it. Anyone have anything to recommend. Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 01:44:25 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 20:44:25 -0500 Subject: Government spooks helped Microsoft build Vista In-Reply-To: <1168644020.3963.173.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1168632991.3963.112.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45A7F5D8.1060809@rogers.com> <20070112225809.GB4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1e55af990701121423s6e07c4dby32595d1be6c801e0@mail.gmail.com> <1168644020.3963.173.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <45AC2DF9.5050002@telly.org> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > What are the options to eliminate Microsoft products (possibly even Novell) from a > company IT repertoire? I know Debian, Xandros and Ubuntu are popular but > lack any long term impact on the market. Mark Shuttleworth is doing his darndest to position Ubuntu/Canonical as the global #3, and that is starting to bear fruit. Ubuntu is making Debian business friendly in a way that Xandros, Corel, Linspire and the Debian team itself have never really succeeded. There are still warts by the bagful in the Ubuntu model but they've come a very long way, despite some odd geography. (Canonical's having its headquarters in the Isle of Man can legitimately make one wonder if it's all one big community-supported tax dodge.) Still, lots of people have admire Debian but feared its seeming hostility to business and internal politics. Ubuntu has offered a very stable way to embrace the Debian way to Linux, even if the Debian team themselves aren't too happy about it. I think it's way premature to declare that Ubuntu is without impact (though they will probably concentrate on SMBs and leave the multinationals to Red Hat and Novell). Of course, don't forget about the second-tier commercial distributions that are slowly growing: - Mandriva, which is very strong in South America and Europe west of Germany - The Asianux project with partners in Japan, China and Korea (one of which is the wholly-owned subsidiary of Oracle Japan, MiracleLinux) Also not to be forgotten is Oracle. Together with IBM and HP, they are big into Linux -- and business IT -- without making their own distros. The landscape could change dramatically if any of these make major changes in what they support, or if any decide to do their own distribution. I don't see Oracle's "red hat support" strategy as having much success beyond the short term -- watch them to do something interesting... > Most distributions are not US based. There are plenty of US-based distros (Centos, PCLinuxOS, I think Mepis. Gentoo) but you may be limiting yourself to highly-funded commercial ones. > This has advantages and disadvantages. Non US based distributions lack market capitalization resulting in more complex support > arrangements. Berkley OS (Unix) require significant programming skills and are not commercially supported. So this leaves RedHat. IBM, HP and other Unixes are a world unto themselves. If SCO wasn't so stupid they would be a good choice. Yeah, when they first merged (or whatever happend) with Caldera I thought it had a really good potential -- Caldera's technology and grasp of Linux together with SCO's traditional affinity with small-systems integrators and VARs. Oh well. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 02:03:36 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 21:03:36 -0500 Subject: (OT) Re:Why english is important In-Reply-To: References: <50497.207.188.66.250.1168351693.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1168468038.23496.352.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <45A5A7CA.6050901@telly.org> Message-ID: <45AC3278.9070509@telly.org> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > We generally get Kokuho Rose from California http://www.kodafarms.com/ > That seems to be both a variety of rice AND a brand name. Confusing. > Kokuho is nothing more than a Calfornia brand of Calrose. Everything else is marketing. :-) They don't use the word Calrose for the same reason Red Hat doesn't use penguins. They're both trying to distance themselves from the rest in theoir fields. > Beware of agricultural products from China. Their use of pesticides > and "nightsoil" is not controlled as well as in the first world. > Well, despite the packagers' instructions otherwise, it's always good practise to rinse _any_ Calrose at least twice before cooking. > | PS: I highly recommend a trip to one of Toronto's T&T supermarkets; this > | ain't no Loblaws. > > It's way more like Loblaws than other asian food stores we have been to. Before T&T I bought my rice (and other Asian groceries) at a small chain called P.A.T. They have stores off Yonge near Sheppard, Bloor near Bathurst, Dundas near Cawthra, and Lawrence near Warden. Much smaller than T&T and clearly geared more to Korean and Japanese than other styles, but extremely clean and bright with helpful staff when I've gone. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 02:45:51 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 21:45:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home Message-ID: <790303.55456.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I am exchanging e-mails with a magazine regarding the loan of a Linux related product for review (product in question has not yet been released), which is all very neat and cool. Problem is power, I will need access to 220 volts for the duration of writing the review. The little server room down at GTCC does not have 220volt power, I have not been in the "new" Toronto Free-Net server room, so I am not sure if that is an option. So, the question is what can I do at home, as both my stove and clothes dyers are on 220volts with the BIG hockey puck style outlets. So, question is how can I make the device work, safely, and reliably? I can arrange things in such that I can live without say the electic clothes dryer for the time required to do the review. Ideally I do not want to call in a profesional electrician (they don't pay me that well for these reviews :-( ). but it must be done in a safe way. Thanks. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 03:04:39 2007 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 22:04:39 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home In-Reply-To: <790303.55456.qm-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <790303.55456.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1168916679.3486.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> You could buy a transformer here to go from 110 to 220 volts. http://www.houseof220.com/index.php?main_page=contact_us You would have to buy it based on the wattage of the product. One thing that you have to be sure of is that the product you are testing will work on 60Hz .Most 220 volt services run at 50Hz. Most likely it won't be an issue but just thought I'd mention it. If you just need it for a short time I may have a transformer I can lend you. Also I believe "Above All" on Bloor street sells them. Jim On Mon, 2007-01-15 at 21:45 -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > I am exchanging e-mails with a magazine regarding the > loan of a Linux related product for review (product in > question has not yet been released), which is all very > neat and cool. Problem is power, I will need access to > 220 volts for the duration of writing the review. The > little server room down at GTCC does not have 220volt > power, I have not been in the "new" Toronto Free-Net > server room, so I am not sure if that is an option. > So, the question is what can I do at home, as both my > stove and clothes dyers are on 220volts with the BIG > hockey puck style outlets. > > So, question is how can I make the device work, > safely, and reliably? I can arrange things in such > that I can live without say the electic clothes dryer > for the time required to do the review. Ideally I do > not want to call in a profesional electrician (they > don't pay me that well for these reviews :-( ). but it > must be done in a safe way. > > Thanks. > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 03:05:36 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 22:05:36 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home In-Reply-To: <790303.55456.qm-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <790303.55456.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45AC4100.7030809@telly.org> Colin McGregor wrote: > I am exchanging e-mails with a magazine regarding the > loan of a Linux related product for review (product in > question has not yet been released), which is all very > neat and cool. Problem is power, I will need access to > 220 volts for the duration of writing the review. The > little server room down at GTCC does not have 220volt > power, I have not been in the "new" Toronto Free-Net > server room, so I am not sure if that is an option. > So, the question is what can I do at home, as both my > stove and clothes dyers are on 220volts with the BIG > hockey puck style outlets. > I'm really surprised that a company would even make stuff like that now. That's downright low-tech. These days, almost all power supplies for electronics -- including PCs and the little bricks -- can handle from 100-240V. Most cellphone chargers and laptop AC adaptors can be used anywhere, with only the shape of the plug -- not the voltage -- being an obstacle. Are you sure that the PS for your unit can only take 220? It's possible that while the plug itself may be of European or other shape, the unit will still work with 110. What do the markings on the PS say? Plug adapters are pretty easy to find, especially around tourist areas. If it's a "device" (as opposed to, say, a PC), it should be possible to find a brick that will take 110 in and output whatever voltage is needed. Radio Shack (not the Source) used to sell adjustable voltage bricks -- Active and other electronic supply shops should have bricks that can be used with the device so long as they know the voltage and the plug style. If it's not a brick and requires 220, a travel transformer will cost less than $30 IIRC, so long as it's not too power thirsty. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 03:14:24 2007 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 22:14:24 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home In-Reply-To: <790303.55456.qm-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <790303.55456.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45AC4310.7080009@rogers.com> You can but 220 to 120 converters. I have one. It cost me $20. I assume you can buy 120 to 220 converters. There is a store in the plaza on the NW corner of Dufferin and Steeles called International Electronics or something like that. Check them out. Stephen Colin McGregor wrote: > I am exchanging e-mails with a magazine regarding the > loan of a Linux related product for review (product in > question has not yet been released), which is all very > neat and cool. Problem is power, I will need access to > 220 volts for the duration of writing the review. The > little server room down at GTCC does not have 220volt > power, I have not been in the "new" Toronto Free-Net > server room, so I am not sure if that is an option. > So, the question is what can I do at home, as both my > stove and clothes dyers are on 220volts with the BIG > hockey puck style outlets. > > So, question is how can I make the device work, > safely, and reliably? I can arrange things in such > that I can live without say the electic clothes dryer > for the time required to do the review. Ideally I do > not want to call in a profesional electrician (they > don't pay me that well for these reviews :-( ). but it > must be done in a safe way. > > Thanks. > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 03:56:33 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 22:56:33 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home In-Reply-To: <790303.55456.qm-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <790303.55456.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45AC4CF1.4040307@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > I am exchanging e-mails with a magazine regarding the > loan of a Linux related product for review (product in > question has not yet been released), which is all very > neat and cool. Problem is power, I will need access to > 220 volts for the duration of writing the review. The > little server room down at GTCC does not have 220volt > power, I have not been in the "new" Toronto Free-Net > server room, so I am not sure if that is an option. > So, the question is what can I do at home, as both my > stove and clothes dyers are on 220volts with the BIG > hockey puck style outlets. > 220 - 240V is used in home, as you mentioned for the stove & dryer. However, many outlets also have 240V available. These are common in kitchens, work shops etc. While the outlets are rated at 120, there is 240V between the hot terminals of the top and bottom outlets in the receptacle. Perhaps the easiest way, is to make up your own power cord that plugs into the dryer outlet. You'll have to be careful of the current rating of your power cord and the breakers or fuses supplying the outlet. However, if you're not comfortable working with the electrical system, don't do this on your own. Does the device actually require 220? Some equipment can run on either 120 or 240V. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 03:56:52 2007 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 22:56:52 -0500 Subject: Dial-up ISP in Kitchener/Waterloo? Message-ID: <61e9e2b10701151956j1910b318wf36361baba4dcd26@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone have a recommendation for a *dial-up* ISP that is Linux-friendly in the Kitchener/Waterloo area? I took a look around the local LUG's (KWLUG) website but didn't notice any ISP endorsements. Thanks! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 04:10:39 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:10:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home In-Reply-To: <45AC4CF1.4040307-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <45AC4CF1.4040307@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070116041039.81746.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- James Knott wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > > I am exchanging e-mails with a magazine regarding > the > > loan of a Linux related product for review > (product in > > question has not yet been released), which is all > very > > neat and cool. Problem is power, I will need > access to > > 220 volts for the duration of writing the review. > The > > little server room down at GTCC does not have > 220volt > > power, I have not been in the "new" Toronto > Free-Net > > server room, so I am not sure if that is an > option. > > So, the question is what can I do at home, as both > my > > stove and clothes dyers are on 220volts with the > BIG > > hockey puck style outlets. > > > > 220 - 240V is used in home, as you mentioned for the > stove & dryer. > However, many outlets also have 240V available. > These are common in > kitchens, work shops etc. While the outlets are > rated at 120, there is > 240V between the hot terminals of the top and bottom > outlets in the > receptacle. Perhaps the easiest way, is to make up > your own power cord > that plugs into the dryer outlet. You'll have to be > careful of the > current rating of your power cord and the breakers > or fuses supplying > the outlet. However, if you're not comfortable > working with the > electrical system, don't do this on your own. Does > the device actually > require 220? Some equipment can run on either 120 > or 240V. Sorry I re-read the specs, the power supplies (yes, it has more than one) are rated for 120/240 at 50/60 Hz, 1300 Watts... We are talking a monster... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 04:11:37 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:11:37 -0500 Subject: Syncing PDA In-Reply-To: <1f13df280701151333p2a36f187udbf9ce3327504fbb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070106220429.GA5781@watson-wilson.ca> <20070108203154.GG17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070108205057.GD30208@watson-wilson.ca> <20070108212415.GH17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070108213139.GE30208@watson-wilson.ca> <20070108232918.GJ17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070115201238.GD5356@watson-wilson.ca> <1f13df280701151333p2a36f187udbf9ce3327504fbb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 1/15/07, Giles Orr wrote: > On 1/15/07, Neil Watson wrote: > > Now comes the search for calendar, todo and contacts software that works > > with the PDA. I currently use remind and abook but, I do not believe > > they sync with PalmOS. > > I use jpilot (http://www.jpilot.org/ , available as a package for most > distros) and have for about five years. A couple years back it was > miles ahead of kpilot (http://cvs.codeyard.net/kpilot/) - I doubt > that's the case anymore but look into both yourself. The thing that impresses me about JPilot is that there's an addon module for managing secret things like passwords. On Debian and related systems, this is offered in the "jpilot-plugins" package, and it provides a fullscale GUI module, as part of JPilot, which syncs with the PalmOS application "GNU Keyring," which does on-PalmOS DES3 encryption. To me, that's the 5th "killer app" on the Palm (the others being calendar, todo, address book, and notes). > Syncing to > jpilot doesn't preclude using other sync methods such as the Palm > desktop on Windows or pilot-xfer. Both of [jk]pilot are GUIs, not > text-based. One advantage that jpilot retains is that it's small and > has very few dependencies. If you find a text-based app that syncs > all the info off a Palm, let me know! You can pull everything off readily enough using pilot-link components. That doesn't give you an address book, calendar, or such, per se... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ronjscott-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 04:17:52 2007 From: ronjscott-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (ron) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:17:52 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home In-Reply-To: <790303.55456.qm-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <790303.55456.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45AC51F0.6000900@sympatico.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: >I am exchanging e-mails with a magazine regarding the >loan of a Linux related product for review (product in >question has not yet been released), which is all very >neat and cool. Problem is power, I will need access to >220 volts for the duration of writing the review. The >little server room down at GTCC does not have 220volt >power, I have not been in the "new" Toronto Free-Net >server room, so I am not sure if that is an option. >So, the question is what can I do at home, as both my >stove and clothes dyers are on 220volts with the BIG >hockey puck style outlets. > >So, question is how can I make the device work, >safely, and reliably? I can arrange things in such >that I can live without say the electic clothes dryer >for the time required to do the review. Ideally I do >not want to call in a profesional electrician (they >don't pay me that well for these reviews :-( ). but it >must be done in a safe way. > >Thanks. > >Colin McGregor > > > Stove and clothes dryer outlets provide more current than conventional electrical outlets, which are limited to 15 Amp, for your protection. It probably would be safer to use a step up transformer plugged into a regular electrical outlet to go from 115 to 230 Volts. Often they come with taps to adjust the output voltage up or down a bit. We used this method where I used to be employed when we had 220 Volt computer equipment to work on. If this piece of equipment only needs a couple Amps at 220 Volts I could probably loan you something, depending on the time constraints. If interested, contact me off - list with details. Ron Scott ( the other white beard at NEWTlug meetings) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From shrike-3aB5TwEFUAhAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 03:26:13 2007 From: shrike-3aB5TwEFUAhAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 22:26:13 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home In-Reply-To: <790303.55456.qm-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <790303.55456.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200701152226.13100.shrike@heinous.org> On Monday 15 January 2007 21:45, Colin McGregor wrote: > I am exchanging e-mails with a magazine regarding the > loan of a Linux related product for review (product in > question has not yet been released), which is all very > neat and cool. Problem is power, I will need access to > 220 volts for the duration of writing the review. The > little server room down at GTCC does not have 220volt > power, I have not been in the "new" Toronto Free-Net > server room, so I am not sure if that is an option. > So, the question is what can I do at home, as both my > stove and clothes dyers are on 220volts with the BIG > hockey puck style outlets. > > So, question is how can I make the device work, > safely, and reliably? I can arrange things in such > that I can live without say the electic clothes dryer > for the time required to do the review. Ideally I do > not want to call in a profesional electrician (they > don't pay me that well for these reviews :-( ). but it > must be done in a safe way. > > Thanks. > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists The safe way's not cheap, and the cheap way's not safe. Personally, I'm comfortable sticking a stripped wire in an outlet and wedging it with a toothpick..... I don't however suggest it. The safe (er) way, is to buy a plug that fits your outlet, buy wire of the correct gauge for the appliance, and a receptacle of the right type and wire them together. Keep in mind that the small gauge wire of the appliance is now the "fuse" as the dryer breaker will never trip, probably not even if you cross the 14 gauge wires and melt them together. (don't ask). BTW, is your thingy a 220 single phase 60 hz or is it an EU 50 Hz or does it matter? -Joseph- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 09:44:12 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:44:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Government spooks helped Microsoft build Vista References: <1168632991.3963.112.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45A7F5D8.1060809@rogers.com> <20070112225809.GB4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> <45A8464B.8060900@rogers.com> <7ac602420701151322s2029c8f3n51ec43c5614d7a28@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Ian Petersen writes: > if ((currentUserId = 0)) { > // benign-looking code > } Good programming practice requires it to be written ((0 = currentUserId)) and that would catch it for sure. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 09:49:49 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:49:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: What beeps when mail arrives ? Message-ID: Hi all, I have a question: what beeps when new mail arrives ? I have biff etc turned off, but if there is any open shell, it beeps. This is annoying. 'env|grep MAIL' is empty, 'set|grep MAIL' yields MAILCHECK=60. Where is this bash behavior documented ? I suppose that unsetting MAILCHECK disables the beep, but what I need is the place where the beep is configured. Something like MAILCMD or such. thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 11:16:28 2007 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:16:28 -0500 Subject: The Linux Survey Message-ID: <45ACB40C.8000203@knet.ca> Here is the results so far of the first survey I created...called "The Linux Survey". Just some basic questions about open source Linux usage in the workplace. This survey I think is pretty harmless. If you do not want to do the survey, thats okay. These surveys are anonymous.I am not recording anything other than the results. http://vger1.dyndns.org/ucc/results.php?sid=28 To participate in the survey (select the survey you want to take, there will be more in the next little while) http://vger1.dyndns.org/ucc/ I have created these surveys/polls using UCCASS. I am going to be thinking of all kinds of new polls/surveys to run. Here is the preview of the survey questions. > > vger1-polls,voting and surveys > > Survey #28: The Linux Survey > > Page 1 of 1 > > 1. [*] Is management at your workplace aware of the open source/Linux > world of solutions ? > Definitely Yes > Cautiously Yes > Maybe > Probably Not > Definitely Not > > 2. [*] Is any open source software used at your workplace ? > Definitely Yes > Cautiously Yes > Maybe > Probably Not > Definitely Not > > 3. [*] How many Microsoft servers are used at your workplace/office ? > (W2000, W2003) > 0 > 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 6 > 7 > 8 > 9 > 10 > more than 10 > > 4. [*] How many Linux (or BSD etc.) servers are used at your workplace > /office? > 0 > 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 6 > 7 > 8 > 9 > 10 > more than 10 > > 5. [*] How many people at your place of work are open source/Linux > knowledgeable enough to setup a server? > 0 > 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 6 > 7 > 8 > 9 > 10 > more than 10 > > 6. [*] Would management at your workplace be interested in learning > about open source/Linux solutions ? > No > Yes - Once in a while > Yes - Frequently > Yes - Very frequently > Don't know > > 7. [*] How many employees at your workplace ? > Very high > High > Moderate > Very Low > Low > > 8. [*] Do you believe open source/Linux could be used to benefit your > workplace ? > No > Yes - Once in a while > Yes - Frequently > Yes - Very frequently > Don't know -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 12:07:10 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 07:07:10 -0500 Subject: Dial-up ISP in Kitchener/Waterloo? In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10701151956j1910b318wf36361baba4dcd26-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701151956j1910b318wf36361baba4dcd26@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I personally use sentex, and recommend them www.sentex.ca Dave On 15-Jan-07, at 10:56 PM, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > Does anyone have a recommendation for a *dial-up* ISP that is > Linux-friendly in the Kitchener/Waterloo area? I took a look around > the local LUG's (KWLUG) website but didn't notice any ISP > endorsements. Thanks! > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 12:50:14 2007 From: kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kyle O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 07:50:14 -0500 Subject: What beeps when mail arrives ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2274b9c30701160450r71c55db7o1f6908d55e943d4e@mail.gmail.com> I tend to turn the pcspeaker off either by taking it out of the kernel or unloading the module... might be extreme for this request though :) On 1/16/07, Peter P. wrote: > > Hi all, > > I have a question: what beeps when new mail arrives ? I have biff etc > turned > off, but if there is any open shell, it beeps. This is annoying. 'env|grep > MAIL' > is empty, 'set|grep MAIL' yields MAILCHECK=60. Where is this bash behavior > documented ? I suppose that unsetting MAILCHECK disables the beep, but > what I > need is the place where the beep is configured. Something like MAILCMD or > such. > > thanks, > Peter > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 12:58:30 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:58:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: What beeps when mail arrives ? References: <2274b9c30701160450r71c55db7o1f6908d55e943d4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Kyle O'Donnell writes: > I tend to turn the pcspeaker off either by taking it out of the kernel or > unloading the module... might be extreme for this request though :) Yup. The 'thing' that beeps is part of bash. If no shell is open there is no beep. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 13:49:49 2007 From: paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org (Paul Nash) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:49:49 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home In-Reply-To: <790303.55456.qm-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <790303.55456.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I moved here from South Africa 2 years ago, with several devices (like an HP LJ4000) that needed 220V power. Stove plug & socket, wired back-to-back, with a tap off to a (SA-style) 220V socket, daisy-chained with the stove -- this fed the Kenwood Chef and other kitchen appliances. HP LJ and other bits of geeky stuff were fed in a similar way from the dryer. As devices have died or been replaced, I have removed these adapters. And yes, you probably *should* put a separate breaker into the tap circuit -- the SA sockets and devices are rated at 15A, while the stove and dryer have 20A circuits IIRC. Lots of baseboard heaters also run on 220V, on 10A breakers. The 50Hz/60Hz seems to be a non-issue: the electronics don't care, and blenders and sewing machines run slightly faster. No big deal. My 220V UPS got a bit confused, but still worked fine. As with all these things, YMMV, and don't do this if you don't know what you're doing; I'm (was?) a professional electrical engineer, have designed building and subdevelopment electrical reticulation, so I know what the risks are. paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 14:07:01 2007 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:07:01 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu question Message-ID: <200701160907.01629.ican@netrover.com> I run an online Intro to Linux Programming course (http://www.icanprogram.com/43ux/main.html). One of the lessons involves fiddling around with the RCS version control system. I recently had a question from a student asking how to get RCS installed on his Ubuntu system. I don't run Ubuntu here, but it sounds like I need to add a section in my course lesson describing how to obtain and install RCS for Ubuntu systems. Thanks in advance for your help. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 14:14:48 2007 From: Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:14:48 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu question In-Reply-To: <200701160907.01629.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200701160907.01629.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: SGkgQm9iDQoNClRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgd2lsbCBpbnN0YWxsIFJDUyBhbmQgYWxsIGRlcGVuZGVu Y2llcy4NCg0Kc3VkbyBhcHQtZ2V0IGluc3RhbGwgcmNzDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X18NCg0KSmFzb24gU2hlaW4NCk5ldHdvcmsgQWRtaW5pc3RyYXRvciDigJMgTGludXggU3lzdGVt cw0KSW92YXRlIEhlYWx0aCBTY2llbmNlcyBJbmMuDQo1MTAwIFNwZWN0cnVtIFdheQ0KTWlzc2lz c2F1Z2EsIE9OIEw0VyA1UzIgDQooIDkwNSApIC0gNjc4IC0gMzExOSAgIHggMzEzNg0KMSAtIDg4 OCAtIDMzNCAtIDQ0NDgsICAgIHggMzEzNiAodG9sbC1mcmVlKQ0KamFzb24uc2hlaW5AaW92YXRl LmNvbSANCg0KQ3VzdG9tZXIgU2VydmljZS4gQ29sbGFib3JhdGlvbi4gSW5ub3ZhdGlvbi4gRWZm aWNpZW5jeS4gDQpJb3ZhdGUncyBJbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBUZWNobm9sb2d5IFRlYW0gDQoNCl9fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCg0KQ09ORklERU5USUFMSVRZIE5PVElDRTogDQpUSElTIEVMRUNU Uk9OSUMgTUFJTCBUUkFOU01JU1NJT04gSVMgUFJJVklMRUdFRCBBTkQgQ09ORklERU5USUFMIEFO RCBJUw0KSU5URU5ERUQgT05MWSBGT1IgVEhFIFJFVklFVyBPRiBUSEUgUEFSVFkgVE8gV0hPTSBJ VCBJUyBBRERSRVNTRUQuIA0KVEhFIElORk9STUFUSU9OIENPTlRBSU5FRCBJTiBUSElTIEUtTUFJ TCBJUyBDT05GSURFTlRJQUwgQU5EIElTIERJU0NMT1NFRA0KVE8gWU9VIFVOREVSIFRIRSBFWFBS RVNTIFVOREVSU1RBTkRJTkcgVEhBVCBZT1UgV0lMTCBOT1QgRElTQ0xPU0UgSVQNCk9SIElUUyBD T05URU5UUyBUTyBBTlkgVEhJUkQgUEFSVFkgV0lUSE9VVCBUSEUgRVhQUkVTUyBXUklUVEVOIENP TlNFTlQNCk9GIEFOIEFVVEhPUklaRUQgT0ZGSUNFUiBPRiBJT1ZBVEUgSEVBTFRIIFNDSUVOQ0VT IFNFUlZJQ0VTIElOQy4gSUYgWU9VIA0KSEFWRQ0KUkVDRUlWRUQgVEhJUyBUUkFOU01JU1NJT04g SU4gRVJST1IsIFBMRUFTRSBJTU1FRElBVEVMWSBSRVRVUk4gSVQgDQpUTyBUSEUgU0VOREVSLg0K X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KDQoNCg0KYm9iIDxpY2FuQG5ldHJvdmVyLmNvbT4gDQpT ZW50IGJ5OiBvd25lci10bHVnQHNzLm9yZw0KMDEvMTYvMjAwNyAwOTowNyBBTQ0KUGxlYXNlIHJl c3BvbmQgdG8NCnRsdWdAc3Mub3JnDQoNCg0KVG8NClRMVUcgPHRsdWdAc3Mub3JnPg0KY2MNCg0K U3ViamVjdA0KW1RMVUddOiBVYnVudHUgcXVlc3Rpb24NCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCkkgcnVuIGFuIG9u bGluZSBJbnRybyB0byBMaW51eCBQcm9ncmFtbWluZyBjb3Vyc2UgDQooaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pY2Fu cHJvZ3JhbS5jb20vNDN1eC9tYWluLmh0bWwpLiAgICBPbmUgb2YgdGhlIGxlc3NvbnMgDQppbnZv bHZlcyANCmZpZGRsaW5nIGFyb3VuZCB3aXRoIHRoZSBSQ1MgdmVyc2lvbiBjb250cm9sIHN5c3Rl bS4NCg0KSSByZWNlbnRseSBoYWQgYSBxdWVzdGlvbiBmcm9tIGEgc3R1ZGVudCBhc2tpbmcgaG93 IHRvIGdldCBSQ1MgaW5zdGFsbGVkIA0Kb24gDQpoaXMgVWJ1bnR1IHN5c3RlbS4NCg0KSSBkb24n dCBydW4gVWJ1bnR1IGhlcmUsICBidXQgaXQgc291bmRzIGxpa2UgSSBuZWVkIHRvIGFkZCBhIHNl Y3Rpb24gaW4gbXkgDQoNCmNvdXJzZSBsZXNzb24gZGVzY3JpYmluZyBob3cgdG8gb2J0YWluIGFu ZCBpbnN0YWxsIFJDUyBmb3IgVWJ1bnR1IHN5c3RlbXMuDQoNClRoYW5rcyBpbiBhZHZhbmNlIGZv ciB5b3VyIGhlbHAuDQoNCmJvYg0KLS0NClRoZSBUb3JvbnRvIExpbnV4IFVzZXJzIEdyb3VwLiAg ICAgIE1lZXRpbmdzOiBodHRwOi8vZ3RhbHVnLm9yZy8NClRMVUcgcmVxdWVzdHM6IExpbnV4IHRv cGljcywgTm8gSFRNTCwgd3JhcCB0ZXh0IGJlbG93IDgwIGNvbHVtbnMNCkhvdyB0byBVTlNVQlND UklCRTogaHR0cDovL2d0YWx1Zy5vcmcvd2lraS9NYWlsaW5nX2xpc3RzDQoNCg0K -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 14:18:28 2007 From: kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kyle O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:18:28 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu question In-Reply-To: References: <200701160907.01629.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <2274b9c30701160618g2f57c391gfaf53f81c843985b@mail.gmail.com> If you have your sources.list set correctly, simply type: # apt-get install rcs --kyleo On 1/16/07, Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org wrote: > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 15:13:25 2007 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:13:25 -0500 Subject: Dial-up ISP in Kitchener/Waterloo? In-Reply-To: References: <61e9e2b10701151956j1910b318wf36361baba4dcd26@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10701160713g7f985276weda03c4a7b692380@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for the recommendation... I will pass on the info to my friend in Kitchener. On 1/16/07, Dave Cramer wrote: > I personally use sentex, and recommend them > > > www.sentex.ca > > Dave > On 15-Jan-07, at 10:56 PM, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > > > Does anyone have a recommendation for a *dial-up* ISP that is > > Linux-friendly in the Kitchener/Waterloo area? I took a look around > > the local LUG's (KWLUG) website but didn't notice any ISP > > endorsements. Thanks! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 16:15:34 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:15:34 +0300 Subject: openldap root schema Message-ID: Hi all, After the recent slides that were shared on this group, I made up my mind to set up ldap, going as deep as I can. I have however hit a wall in the last three days and don't seem to have an idea how to go around them. I am humbly asking for help, so that I can move ahead hopefully. The main problem started because my root schema don't have a "uid", and this looks critical. I haven't figured how it should be added and my root schema currently looks as below dn: dc=afsat,dc=com dc: afsat objectclass: top objectclass: dcObject objectclass: organization o: Afsat ## Build the people ou. dn: ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com ou: people objectClass: organizationalUnit This was inserted successfully by slapadd tool. I then restarted openldap and attempted populating it will user extracted from /etc/passwd file and that is when I hit my first problem. The migration tool produced a ldif file of the following format. dn: uid=wmuriithi,ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com uid: wmuriithi cn: William Muriithi objectClass: account objectClass: posixAccount objectClass: top objectClass: shadowAccount userPassword: {crypt}LnMJ/n2rQsR.c shadowLastChange: 11108 shadowMax: 99999 shadowWarning: 7 shadowFlag: 134539460 loginShell: /bin/bash uidNumber: 530 gidNumber: 530 homeDirectory: /home/wmuriithi gecos: William Muriithi Attempting to feed this data to ldap lead to this error adding new entry "cn=William Muriithi,dc=afsat,dc=com" ldap_add: Object class violation (65) additional info: attribute 'uid' not allowed I have rebuild the database a couple of time with varying schema in an attempt to avoid the above issue without success. Eventually, I gave up, stripped the uid field and feed it to ldap hoping it wouldn't haunt me again. I was wrong, really wrong. The simple setup was over, and I started to face sasl and that is when the issue occured again. See, after configuring sasl, one has to go back to slap.conf, comment out rootdn and insert the following line saslRegexp uid=(.*),cn=localhost.localdomain,cn=DIGEST-MD5,cn=auth uid=$1,ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com On closer observation, the above line has a field uid. Now, what is this supposed to mean? Is it the same uid I left out when damping passwd file content to ldap or what is it? Would this field exist on the output below? # afsat.com dn: dc=afsat,dc=com dc: afsat objectClass: top objectClass: dcObject objectClass: organization o: Afsat # people, afsat.com dn: ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com ou: people objectClass: organizationalUnit # radius, afsat.com dn: cn=radius,dc=afsat,dc=com cn: radius sn: Admin userPassword:: cmFkaXVz objectClass: person On the side note, one has to insert users on sasldb. What is the idea behind this action? I assume all the authentication data should be held by ldap, what do we do with this sasl data, assuming the above assumption are correct? I believe if I can be sure what these two database do, I can progress. And finally, does a default ldap that come with fedora support GSSAPI? I was forced to use DIGEST-MD5, as I didn't wish to install from source. Installing from source would have required ACL configuration, and I plan to avoid that untill I have messed up with ldap seriously. Thanks in advance William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 16:23:06 2007 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:23:06 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <1e55af990701130143g70481d10p8d6043a9a6927322-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <1e55af990701130143g70481d10p8d6043a9a6927322@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168964586.30931.1169527857@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 04:43:27 -0500, "Sy Ali" said: > On 1/10/07, Matt wrote: > > So, I have two questions: > > 1) What language should I look at learning/relearning? I'm thinking > > Perl, since I've done some before, though it's been a while > > 2) Does anyone know a good resource for n00bs to teach themselves? > > I also ask the same questions others have asked: Why do you want to > learn? For what specific purpose? > > If you're learning just to get entry-level skills to eventually get > useful skills, then look at Ruby or Python. I recommend Ruby because > it's easy on your brain. > > Links: http://www.trug.ca/Ruby > > And some good starting material: > http://poignantguide.net/ruby/ > http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/ > http://tryruby.hobix.com/ > > Once you can do some very basic stuff, then re-examine yourself and > choose a language suited to some field or problem. Bash for > commandline, Ruby or the more popular PHP for web, Perl for all kinds > of stuff, C for kernel stuff, etc. > > Or whatever language your favourite app is written in. Matt is correct that Ruby or Python are great choices for first (and continuing) languages. They're similar in these ways: - cross-platform, high level languages, suitable for use almost anywhere - designed and used by discriminating users who've tried lots of languages - enthusiastic and mostly positive user communities They're different in these ways: - Ruby allows a lot of expressiveness, maybe at the cost of clarity - Python values clarity of intention above all, at the cost of terseness - Ruby is still young (though growing fast). Python has the great advantage of over ten years of learning resources, tools, and library support - Python is much more widely deployed, for instance in Linux system administration tools in Red Hat, Gentoo, and Ubuntu. It is a supported scripting language under Open Office, Gnome, and numerous applications. It is pre-loaded on HP Pavilion Windows XP machines. A huge amount of current web traffic runs on Python by way of BitTorrent. Prominent Python people work for Google, Yahoo, and even Microsoft. Ruby has made a big splash with its Rails framework, and may eventually surpass PHP in web development (hopefully), but for now, as far as I know, it hasn't gone a lot further. There's a lot of mutual respect between the two camps. Probably the best thing to do is try both and see which you prefer. If you want to meet some Python people, there's a meeting tonight (Tuesday) of the Toronto Python User's Group at the Linux Cafe. http://web.engcorp.com/pygta/wiki/NextMeeting ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 16:34:39 2007 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:34:39 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <1168964586.30931.1169527857-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <1e55af990701130143g70481d10p8d6043a9a6927322@mail.gmail.com> <1168964586.30931.1169527857@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1168965279.421.1169535231@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:23:06 -0500, "Andrew Malcolmson" said: [...snip...] Following up on my own post: I forgot to post some Python learning resources This'll do it: http://del.icio.us/tag/python+tutorial ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 16:42:57 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:42:57 -0500 Subject: The Linux Survey In-Reply-To: <45ACB40C.8000203-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <45ACB40C.8000203@knet.ca> Message-ID: > > 6. [*] Would management at your workplace be interested in learning about > open source/Linux solutions ? I don't know if the survey software you're using is capable of following streams, but another way to structure the survey is to do a gross filter in the early questions (I know nothing about Linux / I've heard of it / I use it occasionally / I use it a lot / I use it exclusively), and tailor the survey after that based on the gross filter. Since my workplace uses Linux almost exclusively (we use Windows on the laptops and on a few other machines), a question about management's interest in learning about open source doesn't make sense -- they already know and embrace open source/Linux. My two cents. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 16:50:19 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:50:19 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <1168964586.30931.1169527857-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <1e55af990701130143g70481d10p8d6043a9a6927322@mail.gmail.com> <1168964586.30931.1169527857@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420701160850o247c2be2p1bb0172456851ac1@mail.gmail.com> > - Ruby is still young (though growing fast). Python has the great > advantage of over ten years of learning resources, tools, and library > support I might be nitpicking, or even veering off topic here, but Ruby is about as old as Java. The first publicly available interpreter was released sometime around 1995. Of course, everything was Japanese, so it didn't get much attention in North America. Once the Pragmatic Programmers created some English documentation, it started to get some exposure, and then David Heinemeier Hansson (also known as DHH) released Ruby on Rails, which has only increased Ruby's visibility. Ian PS Random tidbit: another similarity between Python and Ruby is that they both have interpreters based on the Java virtual machine: Jython and JRuby. I don't know anything about Jython. JRuby, on the other hand, looks promising because Sun recently hired the developers to work full-time on JRuby. I assume that a JVM-based interpreter gives you access to Java's rather immense standard library. -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 17:18:25 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:18:25 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45AD08E1.3000205@ve3syb.ca> Paul Nash wrote: > And yes, you probably *should* put a separate breaker into the tap circuit > -- the SA sockets and devices are rated at 15A, while the stove and dryer > have 20A circuits IIRC. > Some of the 240V AC outlets in the home are 30 amp circuits. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 17:20:05 2007 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:20:05 -0500 Subject: (k)ubuntu: howto prevent lp module from loading at boot? In-Reply-To: <20070115221436.GC17268-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1168444042.26211.50.camel@localhost> <45A524BA.2040706@buynet.com> <20070110220311.GN17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45ABFB62.8050209@buynet.com> <20070115221436.GC17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45AD0945.6020804@buynet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > I am surprised the lp module got in the way of something though. > Usually it shares the port quite nicely. Maybe it is the other user of > the port that isn't sharing nicely. The other user is vmware->winXP. According to vmware, if I remember correctly, lp does not report its settings (or parameters) correctly so that vmware cannot share the port. ...and the usb port connections are somewhat flaky. On this particular workstation, we must have the printer available to both firefox etc and winXP/wordperfect at the same time and it *must* be point and click. What seems to be working well so far, is connecting the printer with both parallel and usb cables*1 and "reserving" the usb port for the Linux host and the lpt port for the guest o/s winXP. BTW, I'm quite impressed that KDE's (?) scanner application kooka was able to recognize and use either port (eventhough the second was added after the initial installation) without any configuration :-) Herb Richter... *1 - never done this before! ...two concurrent electrical routes to a single device or appliance: scary! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFrQlFU+pQaeEFGGARAg1lAJ41yAJJgP30kBT4Yv0Dnqh2GNjPHACcDT37 MWuoP39cnvEL2z/Ap2Hawrc= =GxRJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 17:28:53 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:28:53 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45AD0B55.9070101@ve3syb.ca> Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org wrote: > The following will install RCS and all dependencies. > > sudo apt-get install rcs > The user could also run the GUI package management program 'synaptic' and use it to install the rcs package. The command line approach is probably a little less intimidating than seeing the huge list of available (and installed) packages shown in synaptic. > N???'????T????.???)?m???n????2?????-????h?',6??0?+j?^???? | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 14:24:54 2007 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:24:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: Ubuntu question In-Reply-To: <200701160907.01629.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200701160907.01629.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <21209.72.38.22.170.1168957494.squirrel@72.38.22.170> Bob, I don't use RCS, however, this link looks like it might have what you need. http://packages.ubuntulinux.org/edgy/devel/rcs Stephen > I run an online Intro to Linux Programming course > (http://www.icanprogram.com/43ux/main.html). One of the lessons > involves > fiddling around with the RCS version control system. > > I recently had a question from a student asking how to get RCS installed > on > his Ubuntu system. > > I don't run Ubuntu here, but it sounds like I need to add a section in my > course lesson describing how to obtain and install RCS for Ubuntu systems. > > Thanks in advance for your help. > > bob > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA Tel: (905) 627-1302 x14 Fax: (905) 627-5022 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 19:59:59 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:59:59 -0500 Subject: (k)ubuntu: howto prevent lp module from loading at boot? In-Reply-To: <45AD0945.6020804-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1168444042.26211.50.camel@localhost> <45A524BA.2040706@buynet.com> <20070110220311.GN17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45ABFB62.8050209@buynet.com> <20070115221436.GC17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45AD0945.6020804@buynet.com> Message-ID: <20070116195959.GD17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 12:20:05PM -0500, Herb Richter wrote: > The other user is vmware->winXP. According to vmware, if I remember > correctly, lp does not report its settings (or parameters) correctly so > that vmware cannot share the port. ...and the usb port connections are > somewhat flaky. > > On this particular workstation, we must have the printer available to > both firefox etc and winXP/wordperfect at the same time and it *must* be > point and click. > > What seems to be working well so far, is connecting the printer with > both parallel and usb cables*1 and "reserving" the usb port for the > Linux host and the lpt port for the guest o/s winXP. Or you configure the printer with cupsys on linux, and then share it using samba with the windows guest over the "network". :) That's what I would do. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 20:05:54 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:05:54 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home In-Reply-To: <790303.55456.qm-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <790303.55456.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070116200553.GE17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 09:45:51PM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > I am exchanging e-mails with a magazine regarding the > loan of a Linux related product for review (product in > question has not yet been released), which is all very > neat and cool. Problem is power, I will need access to > 220 volts for the duration of writing the review. The > little server room down at GTCC does not have 220volt > power, I have not been in the "new" Toronto Free-Net > server room, so I am not sure if that is an option. > So, the question is what can I do at home, as both my > stove and clothes dyers are on 220volts with the BIG > hockey puck style outlets. > > So, question is how can I make the device work, > safely, and reliably? I can arrange things in such > that I can live without say the electic clothes dryer > for the time required to do the review. Ideally I do > not want to call in a profesional electrician (they > don't pay me that well for these reviews :-( ). but it > must be done in a safe way. Does it require 220V north american style (as in 2 phase power), or does it require 220V european style (as in 1 phase power). It does make a difference to many things whether you have 220V between 2 phases, or 220V between neutral and one phase. After all grounding would be very different relative to a phase compared to neutral (not that either should ever be directly connected to ground.) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 20:07:12 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:07:12 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home In-Reply-To: <1168916679.3486.11.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <790303.55456.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1168916679.3486.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070116200712.GF17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 10:04:39PM -0500, jim ruxton wrote: > You could buy a transformer here to go from 110 to 220 volts. > http://www.houseof220.com/index.php?main_page=contact_us > You would have to buy it based on the wattage of the product. One thing > that you have to be sure of is that the product you are testing will > work on 60Hz .Most 220 volt services run at 50Hz. Most likely it won't > be an issue but just thought I'd mention it. If you just need it for a > short time I may have a transformer I can lend you. Also I believe > "Above All" on Bloor street sells them. Many products here run 60Hz 220V (using both power rails in a common house hold circuit), such as the stove, dryer, A/C, etc. The real question is what kind of product it is for. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 20:08:10 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:08:10 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home In-Reply-To: <20070116041039.81746.qmail-iE2/U85ktn6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <45AC4CF1.4040307@rogers.com> <20070116041039.81746.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070116200810.GG17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 11:10:39PM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > Sorry I re-read the specs, the power supplies (yes, it > has more than one) are rated for 120/240 at 50/60 Hz, > 1300 Watts... We are talking a monster... If they are rated for 120V 60Hz 1300W, then you don't need 220V power. You just need an outlet that isn't sharing the circuit with anything else. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 21:59:04 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:59:04 -0500 Subject: LVM How-To by Lennart In-Reply-To: <20070115211805.GV17268-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200701122009.15518.mervc@eol.ca> <20070115211805.GV17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200701161659.05189.mervc@eol.ca> On Monday 15 January 2007 16:18, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 08:09:15PM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > > Thanks for the instructions Lennart. From what stuck in the grey cells > > from the HOW-TO, it seemed to make sense. I assume that somewhere in > > the second stage I format the 'newdisk' with ext3 to match the present > > part of the logical volume? > > No. You are extending an existing filesystem I imagine. If you don't > want to expand an existing logical volume, you can create a new logical > volume with lvcreate and format that afterwards. > hda on the Myth system, has a primary partition for /boot, a VolumeGroup [rootvg] for the Myth install / and the swap; and a VolumeGroup for Myth Data [videovg]. I have a 320 GB drive [hdb] that I thought could extend the videovg group. > > The vgdisplay should show how many free extents are unused (not used by > any logical volume). That is how many extents you can potentially add > to any existing logical volume. > Well it seems that vgdisplay didn't return what it should have because I didn't use the VolumeGroup name. I just tried again and vgdisplay videovg [now sez among other things] Max PV 0 0 Cur PV 1 1 Act PV 1 1 VG size 225.88 PE Size 32 MB Total PE 7228 Alloc PE/Size 7227 / 225.88 Free PE/Size 1 / 32 MB Is that better? How many free extents are there, just 1? Is this second drive going to be videolv02 for mounting purposes in fstab and a part of the 'videovg group? presently fstab is 2 entries for rootvg, one is /, and another swap and /dev/videovg/videolv01 /video ext3 defaults 0 0 > > Something went disasterously wrong this afternoon, this computer locked > > up and I had to power down. When I restarted it, it just wouldn't > > reboot, about 10 error messages, ending something like, ' this > > shouldn't happen, but it did '. Nothing like a programmer with a sense > > of humor. > > > > At any rate, tonight after supper, I fired it up, I think every > > partition on 2 drives had errors, this is the first thing I've tried > > and all of todays messages are lost somewhere. Luckily I wrote all > > your instructions down and was able to check the first 4 steps to see > > about these extents. > Stupid me, I booted into the wrong distro and unison hadn't brought it up to date for mail. > Any chance you knocked a cable loose when you were adding the drive? > This wasn't the computer that has Myth on it. It looks like the hard drive was 'on the edge'. Started taking the Bios ages to read it, then a minute to find the grub menu, another minute to actually display it. A new drive installed, the old one is in a USB case and I am slowly getting files and directories off it. Hellofa job. > > 'man fsck' doesn't reveal an -f option, perhaps that applies to LVM. > > I should have said fsck.ext3 -f not just fsck. > > So what have you done so far? With Myth., nothing. Got to figure out this extents thing, so I can increase the size of the Myth 'data directory' for all the recordings that are happening. I didn't realize that every minute of TV that I watch is saved to the hard drive. I realize that they are temporary files but with the novelty, I am using up a lot of space. Plus making recordings of movies that I haven't seen in some time. if the wife starts recording shows and watching TV on her computer, then I'll need lots of storage space. > > -- SuSE 10.2 hasn't been too bad so far, but it will take me a day or two to try the things that bugged me about 10.0 and 10.1. I only have a network install for Debian, so it takes a while to DL all the graphical stuff and get myself back in more familiar territory. Cheers -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 22:48:36 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:48:36 -0500 Subject: LVM and MythTV In-Reply-To: <20070115213624.GZ17268-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200701121202.56429.mervc@eol.ca> <200701131509.12602.mervc@eol.ca> <20070115213624.GZ17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200701161748.36440.mervc@eol.ca> On Monday 15 January 2007 16:36, Lennart Sorensen wrote: I sent this message twice sorta, I didn't see the first one appear so I rewrote it from a different distro. You replied twice, with helpful info each time. Thanks, and further to extants > VG Size 204.82 GB > PE Size 4.00 MB > Total PE 52434 > Alloc PE / Size 52434 / 204.82 GB > Free PE / Size 0 / 0 > VG UUID soZK9G-fPmn-x05Z-kIsd-w11q-e8b0-WgT7Fg > > Since I am using all the space for logical volumes, I have 0 / 0 Free > PEs (Physical Extents). If you create a new PV and add it to the VG, > you should have more PEs free which can then be used to extend existing > LVs or create new LVs. > In my other reply, I gave some of this info. Since it comes from another computer I had to type it and didn't give all the info like you did above . > > I assume that I make an ext3 filesystem before I mount it? > > Only if you are making a new logical volume. If you are expanding an > existing one, you already have a filesystem. > But I won't have a filesystem on this new linux partition on a new drive. The stuff relative to this is down a bit. > > Trying to access an lvm from another system is not trivial (it can be > done, but it can be a real pain). You would have to scan for the > physical volumes, then assemble the volume group and activate it, then > mount the logical volume. You can't simply mount it since you need to > bring up the lvm first. > No I expect to delete all the existing partitions and create one linux type partition. Then create a Logical Volume add it to the videovg VolumeGroup on hda. Maybe I create a new VolumeGroup on hdb? It would be nice if it were a part of videolv01, but I don't think that is possible. I think I can change the configuration of the backend, so the recordings sub-directory of /video would be this new mount in fstab. I have seen three mount points suggested for Mythv data, /var/lib/xxxx, /mnt/store and MythDora set it up as /video This will be confusing to you I am sure since these 2 messages are a part of the same thread. They are tied together in my grey cells, maybe I need to start over with this info? Cheerio -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 16 23:47:44 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 18:47:44 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu question In-Reply-To: <45AD0B55.9070101-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <45AD0B55.9070101@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20070116184744.2c22052e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:28:53 -0500 Kevin Cozens got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > The following will install RCS and all dependencies. > > > > sudo apt-get install rcs > > > The user could also run the GUI package management program 'synaptic' > and use it to install the rcs package. The command line approach is > probably a little less intimidating than seeing the huge list of > available (and installed) packages shown in synaptic. > > N???'????T????.???)?m???n????2?????-????h?',6??0?+j?^???? Out of curiousity, what is all that about? Its mostly just a bunch of > square blocks with hex codes inside and a lot of black circles with '?' ...think that may be your Thunderbird, d00d. It's his sig. Didn't show up like that til you replied, at least here anyway. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Fry: Ooh, Big Pink. It's the only gum with the breath freshening power of ham. Bender: And it pinkens your teeth while you chew. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 00:44:38 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:44:38 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home In-Reply-To: <45AC4100.7030809-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <790303.55456.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <45AC4100.7030809@telly.org> Message-ID: <200701161944.38491.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Monday 15 January 2007 22:05, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I'm really surprised that a company would even make stuff like that now. > That's downright low-tech. Not really but I agree that it's a PITA. Lots of stuff is still produced with non 110V requirements, HP's brand new C class blade chassis for example needs 3 phase power. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 01:25:23 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:25:23 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home In-Reply-To: <200701161944.38491.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <790303.55456.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <45AC4100.7030809@telly.org> <200701161944.38491.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <45AD7B03.7030305@rogers.com> Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Monday 15 January 2007 22:05, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > >> I'm really surprised that a company would even make stuff like that now. >> That's downright low-tech. >> > > Not really but I agree that it's a PITA. Lots of stuff is still produced with > non 110V requirements, HP's brand new C class blade chassis for example needs > 3 phase power. > > That's likely because it needs more power than can be safely delivered with a standard AC outlet. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 02:33:54 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:33:54 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu question In-Reply-To: <20070116184744.2c22052e-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <45AD0B55.9070101@ve3syb.ca> <20070116184744.2c22052e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <45AD8B12.8060503@ve3syb.ca> JoeHill wrote: > ...think that may be your Thunderbird, d00d. It's his sig. Didn't show up like > that til you replied, at least here anyway. I already figured out that it was probably a signature block as it appeared near the end of the message. I don't have non-English language fonts installed on my machine so I can't tell what language it might have been written in. One of the first time (or rare times) I've seen a non-English signature block on a mailing list I'm on. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 03:46:03 2007 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:46:03 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu question In-Reply-To: <45AD8B12.8060503-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <45AD0B55.9070101@ve3syb.ca> <20070116184744.2c22052e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45AD8B12.8060503@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <45AD9BFB.1060403@yahoo.ca> Kevin Cozens wrote: > JoeHill wrote: >> ...think that may be your Thunderbird, d00d. It's his sig. Didn't show >> up like >> that til you replied, at least here anyway. > I already figured out that it was probably a signature block as it > appeared near the end of the message. I don't have non-English language > fonts installed on my machine so I can't tell what language it might > have been written in. One of the first time (or rare times) I've seen a > non-English signature block on a mailing list I'm on. > Check your char set setup on your Linux box. The original was sent us-ascii, but since your reply it was changed to UTF-8. Perhaps your X-Windows or E-mail client can't work with the conversion properly. Is your system really set up for UTF-8? Just a thought anyways -- Of course I could be full of crap. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 04:03:23 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:03:23 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu question In-Reply-To: <45AD9BFB.1060403-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <45AD0B55.9070101@ve3syb.ca> <20070116184744.2c22052e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45AD8B12.8060503@ve3syb.ca> <45AD9BFB.1060403@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <20070116230323.372e00e9@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:46:03 -0500 Stephen Allen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Of course I could be full of crap. ...or, it could be a 'Windows Thing'... /runs for cover ;-) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: Bite my shiny, metal ass! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 04:50:31 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 16 Jan 2007 23:50:31 -0500 Subject: LVM How-To by Lennart In-Reply-To: <200701161659.05189.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701122009.15518.mervc@eol.ca> <20070115211805.GV17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200701161659.05189.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: Merv Curley writes: > On Monday 15 January 2007 16:18, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 08:09:15PM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > > > Thanks for the instructions Lennart. From what stuck in the grey cells > > > from the HOW-TO, it seemed to make sense. I assume that somewhere in > > > the second stage I format the 'newdisk' with ext3 to match the present > > > part of the logical volume? > > > > No. You are extending an existing filesystem I imagine. If you don't > > want to expand an existing logical volume, you can create a new logical > > volume with lvcreate and format that afterwards. > > > hda on the Myth system, has a primary partition for /boot, a VolumeGroup > [rootvg] for the Myth install / and the swap; and a VolumeGroup for > Myth Data [videovg]. I have a 320 GB drive [hdb] that I thought could > extend the videovg group. You can. Once you have extended it you have a choice. You can extend existing logical volumes (using lvextend) or you can create new logical volumes. New logical volumes would required to create file system on them before mounting. Existing logical volumes likely already have a file system which you can simply resize (e.g. using resize2fs) once you have extended the volume using lvextend. You complained about the LVM HOWTO but it's actually comprehensive. I think it would be a good idea for you to spend some more time with it, perhaps on an experimental system, to be sure you understand the concepts. > > The vgdisplay should show how many free extents are unused (not used by > > any logical volume). That is how many extents you can potentially add > > to any existing logical volume. > > > Well it seems that vgdisplay didn't return what it should have because I > didn't use the VolumeGroup name. I just tried again and > > vgdisplay videovg [now sez among other things] > > Max PV 0 0 Cur PV 1 1 Act PV 1 1 > VG size 225.88 PE Size 32 MB > Total PE 7228 > Alloc PE/Size 7227 / 225.88 > Free PE/Size 1 / 32 MB This is before running vgextend, correct? You only have one PV (physical disk partition) and 1 free extent (block of 32MB available for use by LVM). You need to use pvcreate to prepare your new disk for use with LVM and add that PV to your existing volume group using vgextend. At that point, you should have free extents. > Is that better? No. See above. > How many free extents are there, just 1? Yes. > Is this second drive going to be videolv02 for mounting purposes in fstab > and a part of the 'videovg group? Absolutely not. When using LVM, you don't mount (physical) drives or partitions, you mount logical volumes. The purpose of LVM is to provide a layer between the file system and physical disks. It allows you to resize your logical disks (logical volumes) by adding and removing physical disk resources. You can then grow and shrink file systems without needing to backup and restore them. Let me give you a concrete example. My laptop has a single physical disk. It has four physical partitions: 8GB for XP (yuck!), 512MB for the laptop diagnostics, 256MB for /boot, and the remaining 25GB as a single PV for LVM. The PV comprises (is allocated to) a single volume group, vg0. Within vg0, I have the following logival volumes: /dev/vg0/ub606_root /dev/vg0/ub606_usr /dev/vg0/ub606_var /dev/vg0/home /dev/vg0/ub610_root /dev/vg0/ub610_usr /dev/vg0/ub610_var When running Ubuntu 6.10, I have the following mounts: /dev/vg0/ub610_root on / /dev/vg0/ub610_usr on /usr /dev/vg0/ub610_var on /var /dev/hda3 on /boot type /dev/vg0/home on /home type I have free space in vg0, as you will have after you extend it with pvcreate and vgextend. I can add some of that free space to /home as follows: umount /home lvextend -L +4G /dev/vg0/home resize2fs /dev/vg0/home mount /home At this point, I'll have an additional 4GB of usable space in /home. Note that I didn't need to backup and restore /home, and I didn't need to make a new file system. [snip] Hope this helps, -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 05:22:04 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 17 Jan 2007 00:22:04 -0500 Subject: What beeps when mail arrives ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Peter P. writes: > Hi all, > > I have a question: what beeps when new mail arrives ? I have biff etc turned > off, but if there is any open shell, it beeps. This is annoying. 'env|grep MAIL' > is empty, 'set|grep MAIL' yields MAILCHECK=60. Where is this bash behavior > documented ? MAILCHECK (not the beep) is documented in the bashref info documentation. On Ubuntu/Debian, this belongs to the bash-doc package. > I suppose that unsetting MAILCHECK disables the beep, but what I > need is the place where the beep is configured. Something like MAILCMD or such. Check the bash startup files: /etc/profile ~/.bash_profile ~/.bash_login ~/.profile ~/.bashrc -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 06:07:32 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 17 Jan 2007 01:07:32 -0500 Subject: openldap root schema In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Kihara Muriithi" writes: > Hi all, > After the recent slides that were shared on this group, I made up my mind > to set up ldap, going as deep as I can. I have however hit a wall in the > last three days and don't seem to have an idea how to go around them. I am > humbly asking for help, so that I can move ahead hopefully. > The main problem started because my root schema don't have a "uid", and > this looks critical. I haven't figured how it should be added and my root > schema currently looks as below > dn: dc=afsat,dc=com > dc: afsat > objectclass: top > objectclass: dcObject > objectclass: organization > o: Afsat This looks fine. There's no need for your root schema to have uid attribute. Typically, only your users need a uid attribute. You can store users within any OU but typical Linux setups put users in the people us as you show below. Mapping of LDAP to Linux user credentials is handled by libnss-ldap and libpam-ldap, usually configured in /etc/libnss-ldap.conf and /etc/pam_ldap.conf. These need to be consistent with your LDAP schema, usually configured in /etc/ldap/slapd.conf. > ## Build the people ou. > dn: ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com > ou: people > objectClass: organizationalUnit Hmmm. There's no "objectClass: top" which is unusual. > This was inserted successfully by slapadd tool. I then restarted openldap > and attempted populating it will user extracted from /etc/passwd file and > that is when I hit my first problem. The migration tool produced a ldif file > of the following format. > dn: uid=wmuriithi,ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com > uid: wmuriithi > cn: William Muriithi > objectClass: account > objectClass: posixAccount > objectClass: top > objectClass: shadowAccount Hmmm. I'm not sure why you would have object classes account and posixAccount. Also, it's usual to have object class inetOrgPerson for e-mail etc. support. > userPassword: {crypt}LnMJ/n2rQsR.c > shadowLastChange: 11108 > shadowMax: 99999 > shadowWarning: 7 > shadowFlag: 134539460 > loginShell: /bin/bash > uidNumber: 530 > gidNumber: 530 > homeDirectory: /home/wmuriithi > gecos: William Muriithi > > Attempting to feed this data to ldap lead to this error > adding new entry "cn=William Muriithi,dc=afsat,dc=com" > ldap_add: Object class violation (65) > additional info: attribute 'uid' not allowed You appear to have a schema problem. > I have rebuild the database a couple of time with varying schema in an > attempt to avoid the above issue without success. Eventually, I gave up, > stripped the uid field and feed it to ldap hoping it wouldn't haunt me > again. I was wrong, really wrong. No, you'll need the uid field. > The simple setup was over, and I started to face sasl and that is when the > issue occured again. See, after configuring sasl, one has to go back to > slap.conf, comment out rootdn and insert the following line > saslRegexp uid=(.*),cn=localhost.localdomain,cn=DIGEST-MD5,cn=auth > uid=$1,ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com > On closer observation, the above line has a field uid. Now, what is this > supposed to mean? Is it the same uid I left out when damping passwd file > content to ldap or what is it? It's the same field. Since it's a component of the dn, you need it. I would focus on fixing your schema, getting a clean load, and making sure password file, etc. lookups work with LDAP before worrying about SASL. You can test this getent. > Would this field exist on the output below? No, because you haven't shown a user, i.e. an entry within the people ou. If you showed a user, it should have a uid. > # afsat.com > dn: dc=afsat,dc=com > dc: afsat > objectClass: top > objectClass: dcObject > objectClass: organization > o: Afsat > > # people, afsat.com > dn: ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com > ou: people > objectClass: organizationalUnit > > # radius, afsat.com > dn: cn=radius,dc=afsat,dc=com > cn: radius > sn: Admin > userPassword:: cmFkaXVz > objectClass: person > > On the side note, one has to insert users on sasldb. What is the idea > behind this action? I assume all the authentication data should be held by > ldap, what do we do with this sasl data, assuming the above assumption are > correct? I believe if I can be sure what these two database do, I can > progress. And finally, does a default ldap that come with fedora support > GSSAPI? I was forced to use DIGEST-MD5, as I didn't wish to install from > source. Installing from source would have required ACL configuration, and I > plan to avoid that untill I have messed up with ldap seriously. > > Thanks in advance > > William -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 07:55:36 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 02:55:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Copyright law changes could leave consumers vulnerable In-Reply-To: References: <45AAC3A2.3080702@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: | From: Alex Beamish | I think this is a tempest in a teapot .. the doctrine of fair use is well | accepted, and this applies to moving works from one media to another -- if I | own a CD (we used to call them albums) it's perfectly fine to transfer them | to another medium like an MP3 player (we used to record to tape). 1) "Fair Use" is the US term. Your use of it is a hint that you might not know what you are talking about with respect to the law in Canada. Our term is "Fair Dealing". 2) It appears to be illegal to copy music to an MP3 player under current and all previous Canadian copyright legislation. Changes in the last decade made "private copying" legal onto certain media such as CD-R (the quid pro quo being the levy). | Making your own mix CD (we used to call them party tapes) from your own | library of recordings is probably still covered under fair use, while buying | a CD and making copies for all your friends (whether or not you get paid) is | *not* fair use. Wrong again. Making party tapes was not legal. It is now, if the medium onto which you are recording has the levy and it is only for your personal use. You can let your friends make copies of the CD, onto a CD-R (for example). You cannot make the copy for them. | Not much of a change, I think. I wish. This is no tempest in a teapot unless you plan to ignore the law. And that will become increasingly difficult due to "technical means" (DRM). I'm not up to speed on what is in the new law but I expect that it will have anti-circumvention rules protecting DRM. This could be very bad -- the US equivalent is the DMCA and we know how horrible that has been (it will only get worse). NOW IS THE TIME TO TALK TO YOUR MP. Unfortunately, your MP is probably not of the governing party. BTW: I expect a Linux crowd to be more than averagely respectful of copyright laws: (1) many use Linux as opposed to pirating proprietary software (2) the GPL actually depends on copyright law for its effectiveness. BTW 2: DRM is a threat to Linux users in particular. Need I explain? Hint: think of DVD playing (DeCSS is so banned in the US that you cannot even legally have a link to it). Think of reading SD cards (where "secure" means "secure from the owner"). Think of running Linux on boxes sold to run MS Windows. Think of MythTV. Think of HDTV. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 08:47:32 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 11:47:32 +0300 Subject: openldap root schema In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Tim On 17 Jan 2007 01:07:32 -0500, Tim Writer wrote: > > ## Build the people ou. > > dn: ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com > > ou: people > > objectClass: organizationalUnit > > Hmmm. There's no "objectClass: top" which is unusual. I re-did it again and inserted objectClass top as you had suggested. Unfortunately, the problem persisted. Judging from a google search, I have noticed its a common thing to do, but it left me scratching my head. Why put "top" on more than one root schema? Shouldn't we have just one root? > This was inserted successfully by slapadd tool. I then restarted openldap > > and attempted populating it will user extracted from /etc/passwd file > and > > that is when I hit my first problem. The migration tool produced a ldif > file > > of the following format. > > dn: uid=wmuriithi,ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com > > uid: wmuriithi > > cn: William Muriithi > > objectClass: account > > objectClass: posixAccount > > objectClass: top > > objectClass: shadowAccount > > Hmmm. I'm not sure why you would have object classes account and > posixAccount. Also, it's usual to have object class inetOrgPerson for > e-mail etc. support. The data was automatically generated by an ldap migration tool, so I never gave it alot of thought. I just assumed they were correct > Attempting to feed this data to ldap lead to this error > > adding new entry "cn=William Muriithi,dc=afsat,dc=com" > > ldap_add: Object class violation (65) > > additional info: attribute 'uid' not allowed > > You appear to have a schema problem. Thats my feeling also. I googled alot on how other people out there do it, but it appear very different and don't work for me. I am suspecting this is because people out there install from source, while I am working with fedora binary rpms. And, while I was on it, I noticed an error on above insertion, but the solution didn't help. See below adding new entry "uid=wmuriithi,ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com" ldap_add: Object class violation (65) additional info: attribute 'uid' not allowed > Would this field exist on the output below? > > No, because you haven't shown a user, i.e. an entry within the people ou. > If you showed a user, it should have a uid. I am not sure if I understood you well, but I did I querry from what I assumed you were conveying above, and I still couldn't see the uid field. See the search below:- # ldapsearch -x -b "ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com" # extended LDIF # # LDAPv3 # base with scope subtree # filter: (objectclass=*) # requesting: ALL # # people, afsat.com dn: ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com ou: people objectClass: top objectClass: organizationalUnit # wmuriithi, people, afsat.com dn: cn=wmuriithi,ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com cn: wmuriithi sn: Muriithi userPassword:: bWFrYXU= objectClass: person # search result search: 2 result: 0 Success # numResponses: 3 # numEntries: 2 -- > tim writer starnix inc. > 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada > http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Thank you a lot for your help William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 14:54:06 2007 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:54:06 -0500 Subject: Unix file extensions (Was: make apache2 serve file as htmL...) In-Reply-To: References: <20070112190759.GA4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070114181630.0c7101b7.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20070117095406.daa451cf.hgibson@eol.ca> On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:56:21 +0000 "Christopher Browne" wrote: > Unfortunately, Nautilus wound up designed (not surprisingly, when > written by Mac folk who expected a "magic number" on their former > platform) to depend on suffix information to identify stuff. > > I was unhappy with this, and expressed opinion, at the time. > > As you have observed, /etc/magic can be used to provide signatures to > identify stuff, generally with a LOT more accuracy than file > extensions ever offered. > > Unfortunately, that accuracy comes at a cost: You have to read > roughly the first 500 bytes of each file in order to match it against > /etc/magic. Which, for a directory with a large number of entries, > means a lot of I/O. That was why the Nautilus maintainers declined to > use /etc/magic by default :-(. Christopher, Humungous directories are bad practise anyway! -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 14:57:58 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 08:57:58 -0600 Subject: OT: Copyright law changes could leave consumers vulnerable In-Reply-To: References: <45AAC3A2.3080702@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990701170657ic6afcd1yb93321b6add260d@mail.gmail.com> On 1/17/07, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > BTW 2: DRM is a threat to Linux users in particular. Need I explain? > Hint: think of DVD playing (DeCSS is so banned in the US that you cannot > even legally have a link to it). Think of reading SD cards (where > "secure" means "secure from the owner"). Think of running Linux on boxes > sold to run MS Windows. Think of MythTV. Think of HDTV. I'm thinking of standalone computers being illegal and mandatory always-connected boxes which are always on, displaying advertisements unless you pay more money for the right to turn the volume down or the screen off. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 15:10:10 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:10:10 -0500 Subject: OT: Copyright law changes could leave consumers vulnerable In-Reply-To: References: <45AAC3A2.3080702@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <20070117101010.3eca3e4e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 02:55:36 -0500 (EST) D. Hugh Redelmeier got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > 1) "Fair Use" is the US term. Your use of it is a hint that you might > not know what you are talking about with respect to the law in Canada. Whoa. Harsh. > 2) It appears to be illegal aaaand then you do exactly the same thing... ;-) Nothing with regard to anything you said is 'illegal'. It may be a violation of someone's copyright, the remedy for which is to file suit in civil court, but it is *not* illegal. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "Good news, everyone." -Professor "Uh oh. I don't like the sound of that." -Bender "You'll be making a delivery to the planet Trisaw." -Professor "Here it comes." -Bender "A mysterious world in the darkest depths of the forbidden zone." -Professor "Thank you, and goodnight." -Bender -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 15:37:54 2007 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (pavel) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:37:54 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu question In-Reply-To: <200701160907.01629.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200701160907.01629.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <22d2ce992086794042c8fd7c5af4c0d2@localhost> > I recently had a question from a student asking how to get RCS installed > on > his Ubuntu system. First question should be why, not how. If its to import RCS repository into a newer and more able source code control system, then you go to: http://www.gnu.org/software/rcs/rcs.html and load the program, enter directory where you loaded the file, unpack it like so: tar xvfz rcs-xxxxx.tar.gz cd rcs-xxxxxx/ ./configure make make install ./rcs ... etc etc. Suggestion for your student, for systems to be used: bazaar-ng and subversion. All easily locatable on google. Regards, Pavel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 16:20:23 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 11:20:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Copyright law changes could leave consumers vulnerable In-Reply-To: References: <45AAC3A2.3080702@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <50351.207.188.66.250.1169050823.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > I'm not up to speed on what is in the new law but I expect that it > will have anti-circumvention rules protecting DRM. This could be very > bad -- the US equivalent is the DMCA and we know how horrible that has > been (it will only get worse). > > NOW IS THE TIME TO TALK TO YOUR MP. Unfortunately, your MP is > probably not of the governing party. You've given us some hints, but it would help my enthusiasm for this cause if I understood what are the implications for someone who has no interest in popular culture, eg, does not own a TV set. (I suspect that many of us in this group have migrated from TV to things like Slashdot and Wikipedia.) Incidentally, my MP is Jack Layton, and the NDP elected Peggy Nash to replace the liberal MP (name mercifully forgotten) who was pro DRM. So talking to the opposition might not be completely ineffective. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 16:52:08 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 11:52:08 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu question In-Reply-To: <22d2ce992086794042c8fd7c5af4c0d2@localhost> References: <200701160907.01629.ican@netrover.com> <22d2ce992086794042c8fd7c5af4c0d2@localhost> Message-ID: <1f13df280701170852k76fbd2c8xcf29e23c4436f590@mail.gmail.com> On 1/17/07, pavel wrote: > > I recently had a question from a student asking how to get RCS installed > > on his Ubuntu system. > > First question should be why, not how. If its to import RCS repository into > a newer and more able source code control system, then you go to: [SNIP] > Suggestion for your student, for systems to be used: bazaar-ng and subversion. > All easily locatable on google. While you're correct that it would be bad for someone to try to use RCS when they're dealing with code coming from a CVS or subversion repository, using RCS for personal projects is a better idea than getting into the overhead of a distributed revision control system. RCS is simple, fairly straight forward, well known, and widely available, with little overhead and a tiny learning curve. I'm not sure this can be said for cvs, subversion, or bazaar. If all you want to do is track a few scripts and/or documents (be they text, HTML, SGML ...) on your own machine, RCS is still the easiest solution. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 17:09:28 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:09:28 -0500 Subject: LVM How-To by Lennart In-Reply-To: References: <200701122009.15518.mervc@eol.ca> <200701161659.05189.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <200701171209.28209.mervc@eol.ca> On Tuesday 16 January 2007 23:50, Tim Writer wrote: Hello Tim I know top posting is frowned on but no need to make you chase through the message for this. Thanks for the additional comments and examples, I hope that I can start to use the proper terms for working with LVM Groups. Now that I have an idea what this system is all about, the HOW-TO should make much more sense. It is just so long and detailed that I really got lost before the concepts sank in. Then any Linux documentation that is 4 years old is kinda suspect in my mind. After I installed this new drive on this computer [not my Mythtv backend], I was tempted to make 3 small Primary partions for distro /boot use and one large Vol Group, but I chickened out, not knowing what I was getting into. Now that I have your example, I see that is what I should have done. During the day, I'll consider re-doing this drive before I put any more work on it. s Again thanks and for saving Lennart a bunch of typing, altho he might just pipe up anyway :-) I am hoping that this ends this thread, but these 77 year old grey cells aren't so nimble anymore. Cheers > Merv Curley writes: > > On Monday 15 January 2007 16:18, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 08:09:15PM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > > > > Thanks for the instructions Lennart. From what stuck in the grey > > > > cells from the HOW-TO, it seemed to make sense. I assume that > > > > somewhere in the second stage I format the 'newdisk' with ext3 to > > > > match the present part of the logical volume? > > > > > > No. You are extending an existing filesystem I imagine. If you don't > > > want to expand an existing logical volume, you can create a new logical > > > volume with lvcreate and format that afterwards. > > > > hda on the Myth system, has a primary partition for /boot, a VolumeGroup > > [rootvg] for the Myth install / and the swap; and a VolumeGroup for > > Myth Data [videovg]. I have a 320 GB drive [hdb] that I thought could > > extend the videovg group. > > You can. Once you have extended it you have a choice. You can extend > existing logical volumes (using lvextend) or you can create new logical > volumes. New logical volumes would required to create file system on them > before mounting. Existing logical volumes likely already have a file system > which you can simply resize (e.g. using resize2fs) once you have extended > the volume using lvextend. > > You complained about the LVM HOWTO but it's actually comprehensive. I think > it would be a good idea for you to spend some more time with it, perhaps on > an experimental system, to be sure you understand the concepts. > > > > The vgdisplay should show how many free extents are unused (not used by > > > any logical volume). That is how many extents you can potentially add > > > to any existing logical volume. > > > > Well it seems that vgdisplay didn't return what it should have because I > > didn't use the VolumeGroup name. I just tried again and > > > > vgdisplay videovg [now sez among other things] > > > > Max PV 0 0 Cur PV 1 1 Act PV 1 1 > > VG size 225.88 PE Size 32 MB > > Total PE 7228> >> not VMS. It's not MVS. All of those systems had special portions of > >> filenames known as an "extension." Unix doesn't do that.) > > Alloc PE/Size 7227 / 225.88 > > Free PE/Size 1 / 32 MB > > This is before running vgextend, correct? You only have one PV (physical > disk partition) and 1 free extent (block of 32MB available for use by LVM). > You need to use pvcreate to prepare your new disk for use with LVM and add > that PV to your existing volume group using vgextend. At that point, you > should have free extents. > > > Is that better? > > No. See above. > > > How many free extents are there, just 1? > > Yes. > > > Is this second drive going to be videolv02 for mounting purposes in fstab > > and a part of the 'videovg group? > > Absolutely not. When using LVM, you don't mount (physical) drives or > partitions, you mount logical volumes. The purpose of LVM is to provide a > layer between the file system and physical disks. It allows you to resize > your logical disks (logical volumes) by adding and removing physical disk > resources. You can then grow and shrink file systems without needing to > backup and restore them. > > Let me give you a concrete example. My laptop has a single physical > disk. It has four physical partitions: 8GB for XP (yuck!), 512MB for the > laptop diagnostics, 256MB for /boot, and the remaining 25GB as a single PV > for LVM. > > The PV comprises (is allocated to) a single volume group, vg0. Within vg0, > I have the following logival volumes: > > /dev/vg0/ub606_root > /dev/vg0/ub606_usr > /dev/vg0/ub606_var > /dev/vg0/home > /dev/vg0/ub610_root > /dev/vg0/ub610_usr > /dev/vg0/ub610_var > > When running Ubuntu 6.10, I have the following mounts: > > /dev/vg0/ub610_root on / > /dev/vg0/ub610_usr on /usr > /dev/vg0/ub610_var on /var > /dev/hda3 on /boot type > /dev/vg0/home on /home type > > I have free space in vg0, as you will have after you extend it with > pvcreate and vgextend. I can add some of that free space to /home as > follows: > > umount /home > lvextend -L +4G /dev/vg0/home > resize2fs /dev/vg0/home > mount /home > > At this point, I'll have an additional 4GB of usable space in /home. Note > that I didn't need to backup and restore /home, and I didn't need to make a > new file system. > > [snip] >s > Hope this helps, -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 17:27:40 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:27:40 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu question In-Reply-To: <22d2ce992086794042c8fd7c5af4c0d2@localhost> References: <200701160907.01629.ican@netrover.com> <22d2ce992086794042c8fd7c5af4c0d2@localhost> Message-ID: <45AE5C8C.3030103@ve3syb.ca> pavel wrote: > First question should be why, not how. If its to import RCS repository into > a newer and more able source code control system, then you go to: > http://www.gnu.org/software/rcs/rcs.html > and load the program, enter directory where you loaded the file, unpack it > like so: > If all the person wanted to do was pull in stuff from an RCS repository in to a different SCCS such as CVS or Subversion, there is absolutely no need to compile RCS from source. The other SCCS will have a tool or instructions on how to accomplish that task. IIRC, my pocket guide to CVS had infomation on how to pull in data from RCS. If this person who wants RCS is just starting out in programming and/or the use of version control, RCS is a good place to get the basics down. It would make it easier when they are ready to make the move to CVS or, better still, Subversion. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 17:31:19 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:31:19 -0500 Subject: OT: Copyright law changes could leave consumers vulnerable In-Reply-To: <1e55af990701170657ic6afcd1yb93321b6add260d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <45AAC3A2.3080702@pppoe.ca> <1e55af990701170657ic6afcd1yb93321b6add260d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45AE5D67.3040003@ve3syb.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > I'm thinking of standalone computers being illegal and mandatory > always-connected boxes which are always on, displaying advertisements > unless you pay more money for the right to turn the volume down or the > screen off. Sounds a bit like something from "Max Headroom". -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 17:38:32 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 17 Jan 2007 12:38:32 -0500 Subject: openldap root schema In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Kihara Muriithi" writes: > Thanks Tim > On 17 Jan 2007 01:07:32 -0500, Tim Writer wrote: > > > > ## Build the people ou. > > > dn: ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com > > > ou: people > > > objectClass: organizationalUnit > > > > Hmmm. There's no "objectClass: top" which is unusual. > > I re-did it again and inserted objectClass top as you had suggested. > Unfortunately, the problem persisted. Judging from a google search, I have > noticed its a common thing to do, but it left me scratching my head. Why put > "top" on more than one root schema? Shouldn't we have just one root? Are you confusing the root of the LDAP tree with the root of the object class hierarchy (schema)? You can only have one rootdn but you can have many classes derived from the root class (top). > > This was inserted successfully by slapadd tool. I then restarted openldap > > > and attempted populating it will user extracted from /etc/passwd file > > and > > > that is when I hit my first problem. The migration tool produced a ldif > > file > > > of the following format. > > > dn: uid=wmuriithi,ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com > > > uid: wmuriithi > > > cn: William Muriithi > > > objectClass: account > > > objectClass: posixAccount > > > objectClass: top > > > objectClass: shadowAccount > > > > Hmmm. I'm not sure why you would have object classes account and > > posixAccount. Also, it's usual to have object class inetOrgPerson for > > e-mail etc. support. > > The data was automatically generated by an ldap migration tool, so I never > gave it alot of thought. I just assumed they were correct It's been a while since I've used them (migration tools) but, as I recall, they can be used in a number of ways and they may have to be modified. There are many ways to setup LDAP and so the tools aren't universal. They're more of a starting point and you may have to nurse them a bit, i.e. modify them to remove unwanted fields and add missing fields. > > Attempting to feed this data to ldap lead to this error > > > adding new entry "cn=William Muriithi,dc=afsat,dc=com" > > > ldap_add: Object class violation (65) > > > additional info: attribute 'uid' not allowed > > > > You appear to have a schema problem. > > > Thats my feeling also. I googled alot on how other people out there do it, > but it appear very different and don't work for me. I am suspecting this is > because people out there install from source, while I am working with > fedora binary rpms. Hmmm. I've installed from rpms on SUSE and using apt on Debian. It shouldn't be necessary to install from source. > And, while I was on it, I noticed an error on above > insertion, but the solution didn't help. See below > adding new entry "uid=wmuriithi,ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com" > ldap_add: Object class violation (65) > additional info: attribute 'uid' not allowed > > > Would this field exist on the output below? > > > > No, because you haven't shown a user, i.e. an entry within the people ou. > > If you showed a user, it should have a uid. > > > I am not sure if I understood you well, but I did I querry from what I > assumed you were conveying above, and I still couldn't see the uid field. What I meant is that the uid won't exist for the query you showed. If LDAP is setup correctly, it _should_ exist for users but I didn't expect it to exist in your case due to the problem you're describing. > See the search below:- > # ldapsearch -x -b "ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com" > # extended LDIF > # > # LDAPv3 > # base with scope subtree > # filter: (objectclass=*) > # requesting: ALL > # > > # people, afsat.com > dn: ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com > ou: people > objectClass: top > objectClass: organizationalUnit > > # wmuriithi, people, afsat.com > dn: cn=wmuriithi,ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com > cn: wmuriithi > sn: Muriithi > userPassword:: bWFrYXU= > objectClass: person > > # search result > search: 2 > result: 0 Success > > # numResponses: 3 > # numEntries: 2 > > > -- > > tim writer starnix inc. > > 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada > > http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > Thank you a lot for your help > William -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 17:36:07 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:36:07 -0500 Subject: OT: Copyright law changes could leave consumers vulnerable In-Reply-To: References: <45AAC3A2.3080702@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <45AE5E87.1060800@telly.org> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > NOW IS THE TIME TO TALK TO YOUR MP. Unfortunately, your MP is > probably not of the governing party. > If you are really interested in this topic, I would suggest that you might want to get involved with CLUE, which is focused on the national scene. We have helped distribute open source information kits to every MP in the current Parliament, and have been recognized as an interest group by the Heritage and Industry ministries (which are both involved in copyright since it affects cultural as well as business issues). Joining CLUE is easy. Participating -- helping us spread the word within the world of policy makers (not just MPs) -- could go a long way, and we can always use the help. Given that we are in a minority government, having opposition parties and MPs in support _can_ make a difference. http://www.cluecan.ca - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 17:43:29 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 17 Jan 2007 12:43:29 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu question In-Reply-To: <22d2ce992086794042c8fd7c5af4c0d2@localhost> References: <200701160907.01629.ican@netrover.com> <22d2ce992086794042c8fd7c5af4c0d2@localhost> Message-ID: pavel writes: > > > I recently had a question from a student asking how to get RCS installed > > on > > his Ubuntu system. > > First question should be why, not how. While I agree that there are more capable version control systems, RCS is still useful for managing individual files that don't form part of a coherent collection or project. For example, I often use RCS to manage configuration files within /etc. > If its to import RCS repository into > a newer and more able source code control system, then you go to: > http://www.gnu.org/software/rcs/rcs.html > and load the program, enter directory where you loaded the file, unpack it > like so: > > tar xvfz rcs-xxxxx.tar.gz > > cd rcs-xxxxxx/ > ./configure > make > make install > > ./rcs How is this better than "apt-get install rcs" or the appropriate yum incantation? > ... etc etc. > > Suggestion for your student, for systems to be used: bazaar-ng and subversion. > All easily locatable on google. > Regards, > Pavel > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pallen3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 17:47:42 2007 From: pallen3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Patrick Allen) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:47:42 -0500 Subject: OT: Copyright law changes could leave consumers vulnerable In-Reply-To: <45AE5D67.3040003-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <45AAC3A2.3080702@pppoe.ca> <1e55af990701170657ic6afcd1yb93321b6add260d@mail.gmail.com> <45AE5D67.3040003@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <45AE613E.5030300@cogeco.ca> Kevin Cozens wrote: > Sy Ali wrote: >> I'm thinking of standalone computers being illegal and mandatory >> always-connected boxes which are always on, displaying advertisements >> unless you pay more money for the right to turn the volume down or the >> screen off. > Sounds a bit like something from "Max Headroom". Or 1984. (Where only "certain" people could turn their sets off) -- Patrick Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 18:01:21 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 17 Jan 2007 13:01:21 -0500 Subject: LVM How-To by Lennart In-Reply-To: <200701171209.28209.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701122009.15518.mervc@eol.ca> <200701161659.05189.mervc@eol.ca> <200701171209.28209.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: Merv Curley writes: > On Tuesday 16 January 2007 23:50, Tim Writer wrote: > > Hello Tim > > I know top posting is frowned on but no need to make you chase through the > message for this. Thanks for the additional comments and examples, I hope > that I can start to use the proper terms for working with LVM Groups. Now > that I have an idea what this system is all about, the HOW-TO should make > much more sense. It is just so long and detailed that I really got lost > before the concepts sank in. Then any Linux documentation that is 4 years old > is kinda suspect in my mind. That's reasonable. In this case, most of it is okay and relevant. Just ignore anything to do with installation of kernels and the LVM software (this should be handled by your distribution) and other distribution specific thinks, like the procedure for creating root on LVM. Most distros have good tools for doing that now. For example, Debian's mkinitrd handles it correctly. > After I installed this new drive on this computer [not my Mythtv backend], I > was tempted to make 3 small Primary partions for distro /boot use and one > large Vol Group, but I chickened out, not knowing what I was getting into. > > Now that I have your example, I see that is what I should have done. During > the day, I'll consider re-doing this drive before I put any more work on it. > s With LVM, you should be able to migrate your data from the old drive to the new, so that you can repartition the old drive without needing to reinstall. Due to the vagaries of PC hardware, BIOSes, boot managers, etc. this can be non-trivial with your boot drive and I wouldn't do it until you're comfortbale with LVM (i.e. test it on a test system, if you have one). Before you attempt root on LVM (i.e. partition your disk into /boot and a large volume group), you should be comfortable with mounting LVM volumes from a live CD, such as KNOPPIX, Ubuntu Live, or RIP. Other than that, don't be afraid of LVM. It gives you a lot of flexibility and, IMO, is the best way to setup any Linux box. > Again thanks and for saving Lennart a bunch of typing, altho he might just > pipe up anyway :-) No problem. > I am hoping that this ends this thread, but these 77 year old grey cells > aren't so nimble anymore. No need to end it. Some good LVM examples on this list might stop a lot of those other questions like how to repartition a disk, how to mount a second disk, etc. Good luck. > Cheers > > > > > Merv Curley writes: > > > On Monday 15 January 2007 16:18, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > > On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 08:09:15PM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > > > > > Thanks for the instructions Lennart. From what stuck in the grey > > > > > cells from the HOW-TO, it seemed to make sense. I assume that > > > > > somewhere in the second stage I format the 'newdisk' with ext3 to > > > > > match the present part of the logical volume? > > > > > > > > No. You are extending an existing filesystem I imagine. If you don't > > > > want to expand an existing logical volume, you can create a new logical > > > > volume with lvcreate and format that afterwards. > > > > > > hda on the Myth system, has a primary partition for /boot, a VolumeGroup > > > [rootvg] for the Myth install / and the swap; and a VolumeGroup for > > > Myth Data [videovg]. I have a 320 GB drive [hdb] that I thought could > > > extend the videovg group. > > > > You can. Once you have extended it you have a choice. You can extend > > existing logical volumes (using lvextend) or you can create new logical > > volumes. New logical volumes would required to create file system on them > > before mounting. Existing logical volumes likely already have a file system > > which you can simply resize (e.g. using resize2fs) once you have extended > > the volume using lvextend. > > > > You complained about the LVM HOWTO but it's actually comprehensive. I think > > it would be a good idea for you to spend some more time with it, perhaps on > > an experimental system, to be sure you understand the concepts. > > > > > > The vgdisplay should show how many free extents are unused (not used by > > > > any logical volume). That is how many extents you can potentially add > > > > to any existing logical volume. > > > > > > Well it seems that vgdisplay didn't return what it should have because I > > > didn't use the VolumeGroup name. I just tried again and > > > > > > vgdisplay videovg [now sez among other things] > > > > > > Max PV 0 0 Cur PV 1 1 Act PV 1 1 > > > VG size 225.88 PE Size 32 MB > > > Total PE 7228> >> not VMS. It's not MVS. All of those systems had > special portions of > > >> filenames known as an "extension." Unix doesn't do that.) > > > Alloc PE/Size 7227 / 225.88 > > > Free PE/Size 1 / 32 MB > > > > This is before running vgextend, correct? You only have one PV (physical > > disk partition) and 1 free extent (block of 32MB available for use by LVM). > > You need to use pvcreate to prepare your new disk for use with LVM and add > > that PV to your existing volume group using vgextend. At that point, you > > should have free extents. > > > > > Is that better? > > > > No. See above. > > > > > How many free extents are there, just 1? > > > > Yes. > > > > > Is this second drive going to be videolv02 for mounting purposes in fstab > > > and a part of the 'videovg group? > > > > Absolutely not. When using LVM, you don't mount (physical) drives or > > partitions, you mount logical volumes. The purpose of LVM is to provide a > > layer between the file system and physical disks. It allows you to resize > > your logical disks (logical volumes) by adding and removing physical disk > > resources. You can then grow and shrink file systems without needing to > > backup and restore them. > > > > Let me give you a concrete example. My laptop has a single physical > > disk. It has four physical partitions: 8GB for XP (yuck!), 512MB for the > > laptop diagnostics, 256MB for /boot, and the remaining 25GB as a single PV > > for LVM. > > > > The PV comprises (is allocated to) a single volume group, vg0. Within vg0, > > I have the following logival volumes: > > > > /dev/vg0/ub606_root > > /dev/vg0/ub606_usr > > /dev/vg0/ub606_var > > /dev/vg0/home > > /dev/vg0/ub610_root > > /dev/vg0/ub610_usr > > /dev/vg0/ub610_var > > > > When running Ubuntu 6.10, I have the following mounts: > > > > /dev/vg0/ub610_root on / > > /dev/vg0/ub610_usr on /usr > > /dev/vg0/ub610_var on /var > > /dev/hda3 on /boot type > > /dev/vg0/home on /home type > > > > I have free space in vg0, as you will have after you extend it with > > pvcreate and vgextend. I can add some of that free space to /home as > > follows: > > > > umount /home > > lvextend -L +4G /dev/vg0/home > > resize2fs /dev/vg0/home > > mount /home > > > > At this point, I'll have an additional 4GB of usable space in /home. Note > > that I didn't need to backup and restore /home, and I didn't need to make a > > new file system. > > > > [snip] > >s > > > Hope this helps, > > -- > Merv Curley > Toronto, Ont. Can > > SuSE 10.2 Linux > Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 18:16:09 2007 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:16:09 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu question In-Reply-To: <45AE5C8C.3030103-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200701160907.01629.ican@netrover.com> <22d2ce992086794042c8fd7c5af4c0d2@localhost> <45AE5C8C.3030103@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <200701171316.10469.ican@netrover.com> On Wednesday 17 January 2007 12:27 pm, Kevin Cozens wrote: > pavel wrote: > > First question should be why, not how. If its to import RCS repository > > into a newer and more able source code control system, then you go to: > > http://www.gnu.org/software/rcs/rcs.html > > and load the program, enter directory where you loaded the file, unpack > > it like so: > > If all the person wanted to do was pull in stuff from an RCS repository > in to a different SCCS such as CVS or Subversion, there is absolutely no > need to compile RCS from source. The other SCCS will have a tool or > instructions on how to accomplish that task. IIRC, my pocket guide to > CVS had infomation on how to pull in data from RCS. > > If this person who wants RCS is just starting out in programming and/or > the use of version control, RCS is a good place to get the basics down. > It would make it easier when they are ready to make the move to CVS or, > better still, Subversion. Thankyou for all your responses. This student is enrolled in my Introduction to Linux Programming course. We use RCS to illustrate to a programming novice what version control is about. I chose RCS because it is simple and it is (as you responded) a "good place to get the basics down". The student did the appropriate apt-get and now reports that all is well. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 21:26:45 2007 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:26:45 -0500 Subject: PegaSoft - Thursday - Last Call Message-ID: <1169069205.15628.24.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> We need at least 4 more people to book the Linux Caffe. If you're interested in attending, please notify me no later than today. Ken B. --- The next PegaSoft dinner meeting is Date: Thursday, January 18, 2007 at 7:00 pm Location: Linux Caffe Topic: Java Applet Basics (Ken B) Ken will run through the basic steps for creating your own Java applet for a web page, including using the Sun Java compiler and associated tools. Attendance is free but we ask you to tell us your coming so we can confirm there's enough interest to keep the Linux Caffe open after hours for this event. Send an email to Ken Burtch (address on http://www.pegasoft.ca/people.html). Ken B. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 21:30:35 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:30:35 -0500 Subject: Programming/Scripting Resource In-Reply-To: <7ac602420701160850o247c2be2p1bb0172456851ac1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1168462346.5512.16.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> <1168964586.30931.1169527857@webmail.messagingengine.com> <7ac602420701160850o247c2be2p1bb0172456851ac1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701171630.35726.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Tuesday 16 January 2007 11:50, Ian Petersen wrote: > > - Ruby is still young (though growing fast). Python has the great > > advantage of over ten years of learning resources, tools, and > > library support > > I might be nitpicking, or even veering off topic here, but Ruby is > about as old as Java. The first publicly available interpreter was > released sometime around 1995. Of course, everything was Japanese, > so it didn't get much attention in North America. Once the > Pragmatic Programmers created some English documentation, it > started to get some exposure, and then David Heinemeier Hansson > (also known as DHH) released Ruby on Rails, which has only > increased Ruby's visibility. Actually, it took a few years for RoR to become an "overnight" success so Ruby's increase in visibility did not coincide with RoR's release but rather when RoR reached a tipping point in 2005. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 22:41:54 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:41:54 -0600 Subject: OT: Copyright law changes could leave consumers vulnerable In-Reply-To: <45AE613E.5030300-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <45AAC3A2.3080702@pppoe.ca> <1e55af990701170657ic6afcd1yb93321b6add260d@mail.gmail.com> <45AE5D67.3040003@ve3syb.ca> <45AE613E.5030300@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990701171441k6550a21fv83427e0c24a0fd07@mail.gmail.com> On 1/17/07, Patrick Allen wrote: > Kevin Cozens wrote: > > Sy Ali wrote: > >> I'm thinking of standalone computers being illegal and mandatory > >> always-connected boxes which are always on, displaying advertisements > >> unless you pay more money for the right to turn the volume down or the > >> screen off. > > Sounds a bit like something from "Max Headroom". > > Or 1984. (Where only "certain" people could turn their sets off) Bingo Note to Kevin: It's a good book, and the movie is ok too. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 23:37:43 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 18:37:43 -0500 Subject: OT: Copyright law changes could leave consumers vulnerable In-Reply-To: <50351.207.188.66.250.1169050823.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <45AAC3A2.3080702@pppoe.ca> <50351.207.188.66.250.1169050823.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <45AEB347.5070007@pppoe.ca> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > >>I'm not up to speed on what is in the new law but I expect that it >>will have anti-circumvention rules protecting DRM. This could be very >>bad -- the US equivalent is the DMCA and we know how horrible that has >>been (it will only get worse). >> >>NOW IS THE TIME TO TALK TO YOUR MP. Unfortunately, your MP is >>probably not of the governing party. >> >> > >You've given us some hints, but it would help my enthusiasm for this cause >if I understood what are the implications for someone who has no interest >in popular culture, eg, does not own a TV set. (I suspect that many of us >in this group have migrated from TV to things like Slashdot and >Wikipedia.) > > First they came for the hackers. But I never did anything illegal with my computer, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for the pornographers. But I thought there was too much smut on the Internet anyway, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for the anonymous remailers. But a lot of nasty stuff gets sent from anon.penet.fi, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for the encryption users. But I could never figure out how to work PGP anyway, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for me. And by that time there was no one left to speak up. -- Alara Rogers :-) http://www.fitug.de/archiv/satire/first.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came... >Incidentally, my MP is Jack Layton, and the NDP elected Peggy Nash to >replace the liberal MP (name mercifully forgotten) who was pro DRM. So >talking to the opposition might not be completely ineffective. > > > I agree, my MP is Olivia Chow and thank God, she is not of the governing party. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 17 23:41:48 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 18:41:48 -0500 Subject: OT: Copyright law changes could leave consumers vulnerable In-Reply-To: <1e55af990701171441k6550a21fv83427e0c24a0fd07-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <45AAC3A2.3080702@pppoe.ca> <1e55af990701170657ic6afcd1yb93321b6add260d@mail.gmail.com> <45AE5D67.3040003@ve3syb.ca> <45AE613E.5030300@cogeco.ca> <1e55af990701171441k6550a21fv83427e0c24a0fd07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45AEB43C.5010208@ve3syb.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > On 1/17/07, Patrick Allen wrote: >> Or 1984. (Where only "certain" people could turn their sets off) > > Bingo > > Note to Kevin: It's a good book, and the movie is ok too. Yes, I know about it. Despite my interest in SF I have not read the book or seen the movie (yet). -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 18 00:02:32 2007 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 19:02:32 -0500 Subject: Where's the mouse pointer? Message-ID: Hi, I recently installed FC6 and everything seemed to work fine. A few rebbots during install and upgrade and no problem. Today, all of a sudden, I reboot and the mouse pointer is gone. I see the mouse during the boot process but once the login screen comes up I don't see it anymore. When I move the mouse around I do see the button highlights. I can click and right click fine but I don't see the pointer itself. I regenerated another xorg.conf and googled it but no luck so far. Any pointers would be greatly appreceated! Thanks Martin _________________________________________________________________ Buy, Load, Play. The new Sympatico / MSN Music Store works seamlessly with Windows Media Player. Just Click PLAY. http://musicstore.sympatico.msn.ca/content/viewer.aspx?cid=SMS_Sept192006 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 18 00:44:39 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 19:44:39 -0500 Subject: Where's the mouse pointer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e55af990701171644v29361c35hb1920244b97cda2c@mail.gmail.com> Did you do any updating or the like? I wonder if the theme for your mouse pointers is somehow off.. maybe reinstalling a theme package would help? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 18 00:32:25 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 19:32:25 -0500 Subject: OT: Copyright law changes could leave consumers vulnerable In-Reply-To: <45AEB43C.5010208-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <45AAC3A2.3080702@pppoe.ca> <1e55af990701171441k6550a21fv83427e0c24a0fd07@mail.gmail.com> <45AEB43C.5010208@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <200701171932.26122.softquake@gmail.com> On Wednesday 17 January 2007 18:41, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Sy Ali wrote: > > On 1/17/07, Patrick Allen wrote: > >> Or 1984. (Where only "certain" people could turn their sets off) > > > > Bingo > > > > Note to Kevin: It's a good book, and the movie is ok too. > > Yes, I know about it. Despite my interest in SF I have not read the book > or seen the movie (yet). Books are usually worth more than movies and retain a stronger imprint in memory. I did not read books of Orwell. I remember however movie based on 1984 - it was quite impressive. Now, I am downloading through aMule a copy, to refresh my memory. Whenever I watch CNN - that movie comes to my mind ;) I saw also (again, through aMule) Animals Farm. That movie wasnt great in my opinion but it is worth to watch it once and remember. In general, P2P network allows to find great things. One however needs to know well how to search or get a direction from someone on what to search (thats a quite week point in case of P2P - searching mechanism is very poor). I know a lady in Russia (through the Internet) and she directed me to several wonderfull, very interesting movies that (and we are living in a "free" country!) that will never ever be shown here in public. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 18 01:14:23 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 20:14:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Copyright law changes could leave consumers vulnerable In-Reply-To: <50351.207.188.66.250.1169050823.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <45AAC3A2.3080702@pppoe.ca> <50351.207.188.66.250.1169050823.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: | From: | You've given us some hints, but it would help my enthusiasm for this cause | if I understood what are the implications for someone who has no interest | in popular culture, eg, does not own a TV set. (I suspect that many of us | in this group have migrated from TV to things like Slashdot and | Wikipedia.) Lot of reasons. Off the top of my head: - locks you are forbidden to break, even if you have a legal right to access the locked stuff. What will be locked? (What won't be locked?) - mass market computers (just as the xbox is locked now). We Linux users benefit from an accident: the raw hardware that the mass market has developed is amazingly suitable for our uses. But the producers don't care about us. If they did, we think that they'd make things easier for us (publish specs, fix BIOS bugs that don't manifest themselves in MS Windows, provide Linux drivers, etc.). In actual fact, they would just as likely lock us out and produce special Linux modules with higher prices. Mass marketers love to be able to price differentiate. Most boxes running Linux are servers and could be charged a business premium. TPM, protected by anti-circumvention legislation would be an important tool to enable this. Remember: don't think short term. This legislation sets the framework from now on. I don't imagine anti-circumvention ever going away. For one thing, that could be arguably be considered expropriation. Copyright law is usually changed in the opposite direction. - many interesting peripherals. Example: creating SD drivers for open source has been very difficult. It might become illegal. SD is a medium with a lot of cool non-cultural uses. - whatever comes after the mass-market computer. The computer might well disappear over time (remember, I'm not just talking about tomorrow or next year). The appliances that replace many of its current uses will each be a battleground. Right now: game systems, cell phones, music players, entertainment systems, home phones, embedded household computers. I vaguely recollect that there is talk of changing the defacto copyright regime for web pages. So that schools, for example, will pay a levy just so they can use the apparently free stuff on the web (and that was considered a break for them -- the rest of us would not have such an easy time). I was never able to internalize what was proposed. I don't think that this was in this round of changes. I personally think that copyright legislation enforcing DRM when that DRM takes away the user's rights, is truly broken. For example, DRM will prevent access to works that fall out of copyright. It will prevent uses that come under Fair Dealing. Outrageous. | Incidentally, my MP is Jack Layton, and the NDP elected Peggy Nash to | replace the liberal MP (name mercifully forgotten) who was pro DRM. So | talking to the opposition might not be completely ineffective. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmite_Bulte At the all-candidates meeting that I attended in my riding, all candidates strongly supported the new copyright legislation that had just died on the order paper. In fact they wanted more. The conservative did so without knowing anything about the issue. This was in response to a question from the head of one of the copyright collectives (a lawyer, not an artist). I did not ask a question because the meeting was sponsored by a local rate-payers group and they requested only locals ask questions. The problem is that all are naturally supportive of artists. They don't realize that the copyright law changes are primarily in the interests of the incumbent distribution channels, not the creators. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 18 01:18:05 2007 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 20:18:05 -0500 Subject: Where's the mouse pointer? In-Reply-To: <1e55af990701171644v29361c35hb1920244b97cda2c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990701171644v29361c35hb1920244b97cda2c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Tried different themes and tried reinstalling themes, same problem. I did update all pagckages but didn't have that problen for a few reboots. Did you do any updating or the like? I wonder if the theme for your mouse pointers is somehow off.. maybe reinstalling a theme package would help? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists _________________________________________________________________ http://ideas.live.com/programpage.aspx?versionid=b2456790-90e6-4d28-9219-5d7207d94d45&mkt=en-ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 18 06:35:09 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 01:35:09 -0500 Subject: Where's the mouse pointer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1169102109.26134.53.camel@stan64.site> i have seen exactly this issue too, it got solved by changing from a usb to a ps2 mouse. well not a perfect sol'n but it did solve it. -tl On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 20:18 -0500, Martin Duclos wrote: > Tried different themes and tried reinstalling themes, same problem. > > I did update all pagckages but didn't have that problen for a few reboots. > > > > > > Did you do any updating or the like? > > I wonder if the theme for your mouse pointers is somehow off.. maybe > reinstalling a theme package would help? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > _________________________________________________________________ > http://ideas.live.com/programpage.aspx?versionid=b2456790-90e6-4d28-9219-5d7207d94d45&mkt=en-ca > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 18 08:05:20 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:05:20 +0300 Subject: openldap root schema In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, Thank you very much for all that have help, both on list and off the list. Seems a good reading on what each class offer would do me good. The uid attribute is included in the inetOrgPerson. The moment I added that class to my root dn, the error seized and things have been cool so far. See below: dn: cn=admin,ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com uid: sysadmin cn: admin sn: LDAP administrator userPassword:: YWRtaW4= objectClass: person objectClass: inetOrgPerson If someone around here can explain from the top of their head the necessity of these two database, sasldb and kdb, the former for DIGEST-MD5 and the later for gssapi, I would be very grateful. I assume all the authentication data are held by ldap back end, bdb for fedora default install, so what the two database do is beyond my grasp at the moment. Thanks a lot William On 17 Jan 2007 12:38:32 -0500, Tim Writer wrote: > > "Kihara Muriithi" writes: > > > Thanks Tim > > On 17 Jan 2007 01:07:32 -0500, Tim Writer wrote: > > > > > > ## Build the people ou. > > > > dn: ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com > > > > ou: people > > > > objectClass: organizationalUnit > > > > > > Hmmm. There's no "objectClass: top" which is unusual. > > > > I re-did it again and inserted objectClass top as you had suggested. > > Unfortunately, the problem persisted. Judging from a google search, I > have > > noticed its a common thing to do, but it left me scratching my head. Why > put > > "top" on more than one root schema? Shouldn't we have just one root? > > Are you confusing the root of the LDAP tree with the root of the object > class hierarchy (schema)? You can only have one rootdn but you can have > many classes derived from the root class (top). > > > > This was inserted successfully by slapadd tool. I then restarted > openldap > > > > and attempted populating it will user extracted from /etc/passwd > file > > > and > > > > that is when I hit my first problem. The migration tool produced a > ldif > > > file > > > > of the following format. > > > > dn: uid=wmuriithi,ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com > > > > uid: wmuriithi > > > > cn: William Muriithi > > > > objectClass: account > > > > objectClass: posixAccount > > > > objectClass: top > > > > objectClass: shadowAccount > > > > > > Hmmm. I'm not sure why you would have object classes account and > > > posixAccount. Also, it's usual to have object class inetOrgPerson for > > > e-mail etc. support. > > > > The data was automatically generated by an ldap migration tool, so I > never > > gave it alot of thought. I just assumed they were correct > > It's been a while since I've used them (migration tools) but, as I recall, > they can be used in a number of ways and they may have to be > modified. There are many ways to setup LDAP and so the tools aren't > universal. They're more of a starting point and you may have to nurse them > a bit, i.e. modify them to remove unwanted fields and add missing fields. > > > > Attempting to feed this data to ldap lead to this error > > > > adding new entry "cn=William Muriithi,dc=afsat,dc=com" > > > > ldap_add: Object class violation (65) > > > > additional info: attribute 'uid' not allowed > > > > > > You appear to have a schema problem. > > > > > > Thats my feeling also. I googled alot on how other people out there do > it, > > but it appear very different and don't work for me. I am suspecting this > is > > because people out there install from source, while I am working with > > fedora binary rpms. > > Hmmm. I've installed from rpms on SUSE and using apt on Debian. It > shouldn't be necessary to install from source. > > > And, while I was on it, I noticed an error on above > > insertion, but the solution didn't help. See below > > adding new entry "uid=wmuriithi,ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com" > > ldap_add: Object class violation (65) > > additional info: attribute 'uid' not allowed > > > > > Would this field exist on the output below? > > > > > > No, because you haven't shown a user, i.e. an entry within the people > ou. > > > If you showed a user, it should have a uid. > > > > > > I am not sure if I understood you well, but I did I querry from what I > > assumed you were conveying above, and I still couldn't see the uid > field. > > What I meant is that the uid won't exist for the query you showed. If LDAP > is setup correctly, it _should_ exist for users but I didn't expect it to > exist in your case due to the problem you're describing. > > > See the search below:- > > # ldapsearch -x -b "ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com" > > # extended LDIF > > # > > # LDAPv3 > > # base with scope subtree > > # filter: (objectclass=*) > > # requesting: ALL > > # > > > > # people, afsat.com > > dn: ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com > > ou: people > > objectClass: top > > objectClass: organizationalUnit > > > > # wmuriithi, people, afsat.com > > dn: cn=wmuriithi,ou=people,dc=afsat,dc=com > > cn: wmuriithi > > sn: Muriithi > > userPassword:: bWFrYXU= > > objectClass: person > > > > # search result > > search: 2 > > result: 0 Success > > > > # numResponses: 3 > > # numEntries: 2 > > > > > > -- > > > tim writer starnix > inc. > > > 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, > canada > > > http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & > products > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > > Thank you a lot for your help > > William > > -- > tim writer starnix inc. > 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada > http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 18 11:33:16 2007 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 06:33:16 -0500 Subject: Where's the mouse pointer? In-Reply-To: <1169102109.26134.53.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1169102109.26134.53.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: I found a fix for the problem! I added this line to the xorg.conf. Option "HWCursor" "off" Found out the same problem seems to be affecting nvidia cards whith rhgb installed. Either removing rhgb or modifying xorg.conf fix the problem. Martin i have seen exactly this issue too, it got solved by changing from a usb to a ps2 mouse. well not a perfect sol'n but it did solve it. -tl On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 20:18 -0500, Martin Duclos wrote: > Tried different themes and tried reinstalling themes, same problem. > > I did update all pagckages but didn't have that problen for a few reboots. > > > > > > Did you do any updating or the like? > > I wonder if the theme for your mouse pointers is somehow off.. maybe > reinstalling a theme package would help? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > _________________________________________________________________ > http://ideas.live.com/programpage.aspx?versionid=b2456790-90e6-4d28-9219-5d7207d94d45&mkt=en-ca > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists _________________________________________________________________ Free Alerts??: Be smart - let your information find you??! http://alerts.live.com/Alerts/Default.aspx -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 18 13:39:28 2007 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 08:39:28 -0500 Subject: PegaSoft Meeting Cancellation Message-ID: <1169127568.1967.4.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Today's PegaSoft Dinner Meeting has been canceled due to too few people to book the venue. The next dinner meeting will be Thursday, February 15, 2007. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 18 14:08:02 2007 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 09:08:02 -0500 Subject: Where's the mouse pointer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: To expand on my last post, rhgb seems to be started on a seperate X server to avoid flicker when switching to a different tty to the graphic login. There appears to be a bug in the nvidia driver. There is one x running for rhbg, then a second one is started for graphic login and then rhgb dies. Somehow there's an issue with passing ther hardare cursor between two x servers. I should have said the workaround is to disable HWcursor as opposed to a fix... Martin I found a fix for the problem! I added this line to the xorg.conf. Option "HWCursor" "off" Found out the same problem seems to be affecting nvidia cards whith rhgb installed. Either removing rhgb or modifying xorg.conf fix the problem. Martin i have seen exactly this issue too, it got solved by changing from a usb to a ps2 mouse. well not a perfect sol'n but it did solve it. -tl On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 20:18 -0500, Martin Duclos wrote: > Tried different themes and tried reinstalling themes, same problem. > > I did update all pagckages but didn't have that problen for a few reboots. > > > > > > Did you do any updating or the like? > > I wonder if the theme for your mouse pointers is somehow off.. maybe > reinstalling a theme package would help? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > _________________________________________________________________ > http://ideas.live.com/programpage.aspx?versionid=b2456790-90e6-4d28-9219-5d7207d94d45&mkt=en-ca > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists _________________________________________________________________ Free Alerts??: Be smart - let your information find you??! http://alerts.live.com/Alerts/Default.aspx -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists _________________________________________________________________ http://ideas.live.com/programpage.aspx?versionid=b2456790-90e6-4d28-9219-5d7207d94d45&mkt=en-ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 18 16:51:17 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:51:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: New approach to illegal downloads and copying Message-ID: Well worth reading for the idea. Let's hope that the idiots who push DRM and 'media control' get the point and take the hint: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/17/yourmoney/media.php In a way EA went the Open Source Way with this imho. Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 18 17:31:06 2007 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:31:06 -0500 Subject: local network bandwidth killers Message-ID: <45AFAEDA.7030503@knet.ca> We have people on a local network that waste huge bandwidth by going to these sites like youtube and others and playing online mpegs and videos. What are some ways to prevent such frivilious waste of bandwidth ? (be aware, these people do whatever they want) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 18 17:34:14 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:34:14 -0500 Subject: Logical Volume Management Message-ID: <200701181234.14178.mervc@eol.ca> I have just received much good advice about LVM and if any others need some help that is quite readable in conjuction with the Man pages, try this http://www.howtoforge.com/linux_lvm There are probably others around but just found this last night and it seems very helpful after a quick scan. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 18 17:36:40 2007 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:36:40 -0500 Subject: local network bandwidth killers In-Reply-To: <45AFAEDA.7030503-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <45AFAEDA.7030503@knet.ca> Message-ID: <45AFB028.1070902@rogers.com> Install a proxy server and block the sites. Stephen Teddy David Mills wrote: > We have people on a local network that waste huge bandwidth by going > to these sites like youtube and others and playing online mpegs and > videos. > What are some ways to prevent such frivilious waste of bandwidth ? (be > aware, these people do whatever they want) > > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 18 18:08:27 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 13:08:27 -0500 Subject: local network bandwidth killers In-Reply-To: <45AFB028.1070902-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <45AFAEDA.7030503@knet.ca> <45AFB028.1070902@rogers.com> Message-ID: No, no, no. That's far too obvious -- a more amusing solution would be to limit the bandwidth coming from these content-heavy sites. And the way to do that would be to throttle bandwidth on everything except a list of specifically work-related sites. Of course, you need to do your homework first, and make sure that the higher-ups are presented with the problem, the solution and the expected benefits. And good luck with that. ;) Alex On 1/18/07, Stephen wrote: > > Install a proxy server and block the sites. > > Stephen > > Teddy David Mills wrote: > > We have people on a local network that waste huge bandwidth by going > > to these sites like youtube and others and playing online mpegs and > > videos. > > What are some ways to prevent such frivilious waste of bandwidth ? (be > > aware, these people do whatever they want) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 18 20:20:06 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:20:06 -0500 Subject: Subversion, user accounts and ACLs Message-ID: <20070118202006.GA25916@watson-wilson.ca> Suppose I have a Subversion repository: /trunk/ /branches/dev /branches/qa I want to be able to limit users to certain directories. John should only be able to access branches/qa. Jane should only be able to access branches/dev. I can accomplish this using Subversion's authz-db files. Using this method users contact a running Subversion daemon. Their credentials are stored in a password-db file. I do not like that this file is plain text. I also do not like that this does not give the user's a chance to change their passwords. Is there a way to control directory access inside a repository while still using UNIX shell accounts for logins? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 5 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 18 21:03:14 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:03:14 -0500 Subject: Subversion, user accounts and ACLs In-Reply-To: <20070118202006.GA25916-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070118202006.GA25916@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420701181303h6e3f91bco9af533df709eb78e@mail.gmail.com> I'm not sure if this will answer your question, but can't you accomplish this by serving the repository over the "svn+ssh" protocol (or whatever it's called). I would expect you could set up the repository machine to allow svn users to connect to the machine via ssh and only execute a certain set of commands such as /usr/bin/svn and /usr/bin/passwd. Will that do? Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 18 22:31:27 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:31:27 -0600 Subject: local network bandwidth killers In-Reply-To: <45AFAEDA.7030503-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <45AFAEDA.7030503@knet.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990701181431y67ff4842m898e31580d81938d@mail.gmail.com> On 1/18/07, Teddy David Mills wrote: > We have people on a local network that waste huge bandwidth by going to > these sites like youtube and others and playing online mpegs and videos. > What are some ways to prevent such frivilious waste of bandwidth ? (be > aware, these people do whatever they want) How many people are we talking about? Is this in a company? One way is to go the social route. Log things and then one by one people could be approached with the logs and can be told company policy. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 19 00:41:35 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 19:41:35 -0500 Subject: local network bandwidth killers In-Reply-To: <45AFAEDA.7030503-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <45AFAEDA.7030503@knet.ca> Message-ID: <45B013BF.5040606@ve3syb.ca> Teddy David Mills wrote: > We have people on a local network that waste huge bandwidth by going > to these sites like youtube and others and playing online mpegs and > videos. > What are some ways to prevent such frivilious waste of bandwidth ? (be > aware, these people do whatever they want) You can use the router and set up URL or domain blocking. You could even have a bit of fun by routing requests for some sites through a local "proxy" along the lines of that suggested at the Upside-Down-Ternet site (http://www.ex-parrot.com/~pete/upside-down-ternet.html). :-) -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 19 01:41:17 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:41:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: local network bandwidth killers In-Reply-To: <45B013BF.5040606-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <45B013BF.5040606@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <586243.8553.qm@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Kevin Cozens wrote: > Teddy David Mills wrote: > > We have people on a local network that waste huge > bandwidth by going > > to these sites like youtube and others and playing > online mpegs and > > videos. > > What are some ways to prevent such frivilious > waste of bandwidth ? (be > > aware, these people do whatever they want) > You can use the router and set up URL or domain > blocking. > > You could even have a bit of fun by routing requests > for some sites > through a local "proxy" along the lines of that > suggested at the > Upside-Down-Ternet site > (http://www.ex-parrot.com/~pete/upside-down-ternet.html). > :-) The above approach, tossing everyone at the KittenWar website, or playing games with all images is fine (could even be fun) in a home setting where you want to be nasty towards outright bandwidth thieves. Another approach, one easier to justify in a business setting is traffic shaping. In summary, everyone can get full access to the net, but the bandwidth pigs get stepped on. A summary of traffic shaping can be seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_shaping In other words you don't stop the Youtube people, you just make sure that after a short while the quality of service sucks so bad it isn't worth using... :-) . Colin McGregor VE3ZAA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 19 05:25:15 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 00:25:15 -0500 Subject: Unix file extensions (Was: make apache2 serve file as htmL...) In-Reply-To: References: <20070112190759.GA4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070115160255.GA18230@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20070119052515.GA14138@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 03:47:27PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote > That primarily demonstrates that the Unix community has seen an > enormous influx of clueless Windows users who don't understand the > difference and who have added things wrongly to the documentation. "Windows lusers" may believe in extensions. But "l33t H@><0R D00DS" on Windows know that even Windows doesn't really enforce extensions. Consider KLEZ, which delivered its payload with a .wav or a .mid extension. The MUA affectionately known as "Outhouse Excuse" would consider it "safe", because of the "extension". So it passed it on to the system to "play" the file. Windows examined the file, noted that it began with 2 bytes "MZ", and decided to execute it instead. The rest was history. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 19 12:55:14 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 06:55:14 -0600 Subject: Unix file extensions (Was: make apache2 serve file as htmL...) In-Reply-To: <20070119052515.GA14138-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070112190759.GA4144@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070115160255.GA18230@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070119052515.GA14138@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990701190455v61eed103xbd38cfcddb3d7c47@mail.gmail.com> On 1/18/07, Walter Dnes wrote: > Windows examined the file, noted that it > began with 2 bytes "MZ", and decided to execute it instead. The rest > was history. Some quick searching had me learn that those are the initials of Mark Zbikowski, the designer of the MS-DOS executable file format. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Zbikowski -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 19 15:56:03 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:56:03 -0500 Subject: help with iptables Message-ID: Heres what I want to do I have a new mail spam filter machine I want to test before I change the mx records this machine I will call A receives mail and forwards it to B currently B is the MX So what I'd like to do is using iptables : route port 25 traffic currently going to B --> A except when it comes from A I tried iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -m tcp -s ! A --dport 25 -j DNAT --to-destination A but this didn't work suggestions ? Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 19 16:32:29 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:32:29 -0500 Subject: Where's the mouse pointer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200701191132.29931.mervc@eol.ca> On Thursday 18 January 2007 09:08, Martin Duclos wrote: > To expand on my last post, rhgb seems to be started on a seperate X server > to avoid flicker when switching to a different tty to the graphic login. > There appears to be a bug in the nvidia driver. There is one x running for > rhbg, then a second one is started for graphic login and then rhgb dies. > Somehow there's an issue with passing ther hardare cursor between two x > servers. I should have said the workaround is to disable HWcursor as > opposed to a fix... > Martin > > > > I found a fix for the problem! > I added this line to the xorg.conf. > Option "HWCursor" "off" > Found out the same problem seems to be affecting nvidia cards whith rhgb > installed. Either removing rhgb or modifying xorg.conf fix the problem. > > Martin Thanks from me too, for the solution. I had this problem with a recent FC and with Mandriva 2007. I just quit evaluating them. This was with the 'nv' driver. No such problem with any Debian based distro or SuSE 10.1 or 10.2. So it may be more than just the nvidia driver? -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 19 16:41:14 2007 From: gstrom-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:41:14 -0500 Subject: ISP for Bathurst/Lawrence Area Message-ID: <20070119114114.c37debd3.gstrom@eol.ca> I'm moving to the Bathurst and Lawrence area and my current ISP, WinTel (EOL) doesn't service that area. Does anyone know of a good DSL ISP that does, or am I going to be stuck with Mr. Rogers overpriced cable service? Thanks. -- Glen Strom gstrom-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 19 16:54:06 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:54:06 -0500 Subject: help with iptables In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1169225646.8828.125.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Fri, 2007-01-19 at 10:56 -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: > So what I'd like to do is using iptables : > > > route port 25 traffic currently going to B --> A except when it comes > from A You have two options. If the port 25 traffic that you want to NAT is always coming in from one interface and system A is on another then use the --in-interface iptables option to specify the external interface. If you can't differentiate based on interface then you'll have to go to policy routing. See iproute2 to create a separate routing table for the traffic. You may also need to use iptables MANGLE table to mark packets. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 19 17:06:17 2007 From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Matt) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:06:17 -0500 Subject: ISP for Bathurst/Lawrence Area In-Reply-To: <20070119114114.c37debd3.gstrom-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070119114114.c37debd3.gstrom@eol.ca> Message-ID: <1169226377.4577.2.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> I'm pretty sure that TekSavvy services that area. The price is about average, and the connection is good quality - no downtime to speak of, and for $4 a month you can get a static IP. **Disclaimer: I get a referral bonus of $1 off my monthly bill if you sign up with them, but only if you put in my name as a referrer. That being said, I'd still recommend them. On Fri, 2007-01-19 at 11:41 -0500, Glen Strom wrote: > I'm moving to the Bathurst and Lawrence area and my current ISP, WinTel > (EOL) doesn't service that area. Does anyone know of a good DSL ISP > that does, or am I going to be stuck with Mr. Rogers overpriced cable > service? > > Thanks. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 19 19:11:02 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:11:02 -0500 Subject: help with iptables In-Reply-To: <1169225646.8828.125.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1169225646.8828.125.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: On 19-Jan-07, at 11:54 AM, John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-19 at 10:56 -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: > >> So what I'd like to do is using iptables : >> >> >> route port 25 traffic currently going to B --> A except when it comes >> from A > > You have two options. > > If the port 25 traffic that you want to NAT is always coming in > from one > interface and system A is on another then use the --in-interface > iptables option to specify the external interface. > > If you can't differentiate based on interface then you'll have to > go to > policy routing. See iproute2 to create a separate routing table for > the > traffic. You may also need to use iptables MANGLE table to mark > packets. > The solution was somewhat simpler... simply port forward the new spam filter to the old one, change the mx and then remove the port forwarding for testing. Sometimes looking at the problem from the reverse is better. Dave > > -- > John Van Ostrand > Net Direct Inc. > > CTO, co-CEO > 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 > Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 > map > john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org > Ph: 519-883-1172 > ext.5102 > Linux Solutions / IBM > Hardware > Fx: 519-883-8533 > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 19 19:46:08 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:46:08 -0500 Subject: LVM and MythTV In-Reply-To: <200701161748.36440.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701121202.56429.mervc@eol.ca> <200701131509.12602.mervc@eol.ca> <20070115213624.GZ17268@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200701161748.36440.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20070119194608.GA25915@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 05:48:36PM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > In my other reply, I gave some of this info. Since it comes from another > computer I had to type it and didn't give all the info like you did above You won't get info on the other lvm since it isn't 'active' on the current system (and hence not in the config for lvm on the current system). You could potentially find it by doing pvscan or vgscan to search for it. vgchange I believe can be used to enable a vg when you find it. > But I won't have a filesystem on this new linux partition on a new drive. > The stuff relative to this is down a bit. Filesystems go on top of the logical volumes. The partition/drive is just block storage. For example: +-------------------------+-----------------------+ | mount as /data (400GB) | mount as /home (70GB) | Mount points +-------------------------+-----------------------+ | ext3 filesystem (400GB) | ext3 filesystem (70GB)| Filesystems +-------------------------+-----------------------+ | LV_data(400GB) | LV_home (70GB) | Logical Volumes +-------------------------+-----------------------+ | VG_Main(470GB) | Volume Group +---------------+---------------------------------+ | PV_hda2(50GB) | PV_hdb1(320GB) | PV_sda1(100GB) | Physical Volumes +---------------+---------------------------------+ You can add more physical volumes to a volume group. You can add logical volumes to a volume group if there is unused extents in it (the example above doesn't have any free space left). You can even pvmove logical volumes away from specific physical volumes (if there is other free space in the volume group), and then vgremove that physical volume from the volume group if there is no logical volume using any part of the physical volume any more (great when getting rid of an old smaller drive for example, or transitioning from one raid to another). To increate a logical volume you: lvextend the logical volume by the amount of space you want to expand it by. resize the filesystem on the logical volume to the new size. To decrease a logical volume you: resize the filesystem down to less than the new size (to be safe) reduce the lvreduce the logical volume to your new size resize the filesystem up to match the exact new size. You can avoid the second resize if you are absolutely sure about the size you are resizing to (there are management tools for lvm that can do that for you I believe). > No I expect to delete all the existing partitions and create one linux type > partition. Then create a Logical Volume add it to the videovg VolumeGroup > on hda. Maybe I create a new VolumeGroup on hdb? No use one volume group. If you don't want to keep any data from the new drive, you simply delete all the partitions (using cfdisk), create one new partition, set to type to LVM, then use pvcreate on the new partition, vgextend to add the new partition to your existing volume group, and now vgdisplay should show the new drive's size as free space. > It would be nice if it were a part of videolv01, but I don't think that is > possible. I think I can change the configuration of the backend, so the > recordings sub-directory of /video would be this new mount in fstab. I have > seen three mount points suggested for Mythv > data, /var/lib/xxxx, /mnt/store and MythDora set it up as /video It is posible. That is the main point of LVM. > This will be confusing to you I am sure since these 2 messages are a part of > the same thread. They are tied together in my grey cells, maybe I need to > start over with this info? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 19 19:46:49 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:46:49 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home In-Reply-To: <200701161944.38491.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <790303.55456.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <45AC4100.7030809@telly.org> <200701161944.38491.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20070119194649.GB25915@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 07:44:38PM -0500, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Not really but I agree that it's a PITA. Lots of stuff is still produced with > non 110V requirements, HP's brand new C class blade chassis for example needs > 3 phase power. And how much power does a full blade chassis consume? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 19 19:57:07 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:57:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home In-Reply-To: <20070119194649.GB25915-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <790303.55456.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <45AC4100.7030809@telly.org> <200701161944.38491.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20070119194649.GB25915@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <50289.207.188.66.250.1169236627.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 07:44:38PM -0500, Fraser Campbell wrote: >> Not really but I agree that it's a PITA. Lots of stuff is still produced >> with >> non 110V requirements, HP's brand new C class blade chassis for example >> needs >> 3 phase power. > > And how much power does a full blade chassis consume? > Just guessing, the three phase power might be to avoid a nasty power factor on a single phase line. (Hydro don't like it when you have a load that puts the voltage and current out of phase. They still have to supply the voltage and current, but get paid less because the actual so-called real power is less.) -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 19 20:04:53 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:04:53 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home In-Reply-To: <20070119194649.GB25915-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <790303.55456.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <45AC4100.7030809@telly.org> <200701161944.38491.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20070119194649.GB25915@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45B12465.3010707@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 07:44:38PM -0500, Fraser Campbell wrote: > >> Not really but I agree that it's a PITA. Lots of stuff is still produced with >> non 110V requirements, HP's brand new C class blade chassis for example needs >> 3 phase power. >> > > And how much power does a full blade chassis consume? > According to what I read recently, IBM has a blade server that runs about 40 KW per cabinet!!! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 19 20:10:15 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:10:15 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home In-Reply-To: <50289.207.188.66.250.1169236627.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <790303.55456.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <45AC4100.7030809@telly.org> <200701161944.38491.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20070119194649.GB25915@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50289.207.188.66.250.1169236627.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <45B125A7.4030801@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 07:44:38PM -0500, Fraser Campbell wrote: >> >>> Not really but I agree that it's a PITA. Lots of stuff is still produced >>> with >>> non 110V requirements, HP's brand new C class blade chassis for example >>> needs >>> 3 phase power. >>> >> And how much power does a full blade chassis consume? >> >> > Just guessing, the three phase power might be to avoid a nasty power > factor on a single phase line. (Hydro don't like it when you have a load > that puts the voltage and current out of phase. They still have to supply > the voltage and current, but get paid less because the actual so-called > real power is less.) > > Computer equipment has long run on 3 phase power. I used to service mini computers and some of that stuff certainly did, depending on the load requirements. BTW, what sort of power factor do you get with switching power supplies? I'd expect noise might be a bigger concern. Three phase certainly makes for simpler power supply filtering. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 19 21:14:59 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:14:59 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home In-Reply-To: <45B12465.3010707-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <790303.55456.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <45AC4100.7030809@telly.org> <200701161944.38491.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20070119194649.GB25915@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45B12465.3010707@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1169241300.29197.35.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Fri, 2007-01-19 at 15:04 -0500, James Knott wrote: > According to what I read recently, IBM has a blade server that runs > about 40 KW per cabinet!!! To defend the IBM blades they boast lower power than 1Us and many other blades. It's the density that pushes the cabinet above data center norms. You can fit 84 blades in a cabinet which is comprised of 168 CPUs, (336 cores,) 168 SCSI hard disks, 24 Ethernet, Infiniband and/or SAN switches, and 12 management modules with KVM over IP. That's quite a bit of gear for 40KW and considering that it's probably peak consumption, it could commonly run on less. Also that figure may take into consideration the redundant power supplies. The system may only need 20KW to function and have the other 20KW as redundant power. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 19 21:26:11 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:26:11 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home In-Reply-To: <1169241300.29197.35.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <790303.55456.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <45AC4100.7030809@telly.org> <200701161944.38491.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20070119194649.GB25915@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45B12465.3010707@rogers.com> <1169241300.29197.35.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <45B13773.2000302@rogers.com> John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-19 at 15:04 -0500, James Knott wrote: > >> According to what I read recently, IBM has a blade server that runs >> about 40 KW per cabinet!!! >> > > To defend the IBM blades they boast lower power than 1Us and many other > blades. It's the density that pushes the cabinet above data center > norms. You can fit 84 blades in a cabinet which is comprised of 168 > CPUs, (336 cores,) 168 SCSI hard disks, 24 Ethernet, Infiniband and/or > SAN switches, and 12 management modules with KVM over IP. > > That's quite a bit of gear for 40KW and considering that it's probably > peak consumption, it could commonly run on less. Also that figure may > take into consideration the redundant power supplies. The system may > only need 20KW to function and have the other 20KW as redundant power. > > Though I can't say for certain, I believe that's actual operating power. They were discussing it in terms of the strains put on power and air conditioning systems. Apparently, for each watt of power used, you have to use another 1.25 - 1.5 W for cooling, so one of those cabinets could run you about 100 KW total! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vgs-XzQKRVe1yT0V+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 20 02:24:27 2007 From: vgs-XzQKRVe1yT0V+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org (VGS) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 21:24:27 -0500 Subject: help with iptables In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45B17D5B.9000502@videotron.ca> Hi, Add another remote server called C to the equation. C tries connecting to B:25 . B:25 forwards it to A:25 . A:25 should now send all reply packets to B which should then SNAT and forward the packets to C . This is needed for the connection to succeed. If A:25 sends packets directly to C, C does not know what to do with the packets as it is expecting packets from B and not A. Hope this helps you in making the changes necessary to make your setup work . Regards, Shinoj. Dave Cramer wrote: > Heres what I want to do > > I have a new mail spam filter machine I want to test before I change > the mx records > > > this machine I will call A receives mail and forwards it to B > > currently B is the MX > > So what I'd like to do is using iptables : > > route port 25 traffic currently going to B --> A except when it comes > from A > > I tried > > iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -m tcp -s ! A --dport 25 -j DNAT > --to-destination A > > but this didn't work > > suggestions ? > > Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 20 15:02:32 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 10:02:32 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT 220v power in the home In-Reply-To: <20070119194649.GB25915-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <790303.55456.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200701161944.38491.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20070119194649.GB25915@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200701201002.32231.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Friday 19 January 2007 14:46, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 07:44:38PM -0500, Fraser Campbell wrote: > > Not really but I agree that it's a PITA. Lots of stuff is still produced > > with non 110V requirements, HP's brand new C class blade chassis for > > example needs 3 phase power. > > And how much power does a full blade chassis consume? A lot I am sure but I leave that for the facilities people to figure out ;-) This overview doc talks a bit about power ... http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bc/docs/support/SupportManual/c00263417/c00263417.pdf Apparently you can run on single phase power as well but you aren't able to run he blades full bore in that config. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 20 18:30:07 2007 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 13:30:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Jan 23rd NewTLUG meeting: Tcl/Tk, USB interface, ports and Command Line 101 Message-ID: This month's NewTLUG meeting will be held Tues Jan 23rd, at Seneca College on the YorkU campus. Date: Tues Jan 23 Time: 7 - 10pm Topics: 1) a NewTLUG version of a previous TLUG talk by Peter Hiscocks re USB port interface and Tcl/Tk programming. Also, some history and evolution of serial and parallel ports plus the advantages and challenges of using USB ...see Peter's outline below 2) Command Line 101: a look at some basic tricks for moving around between Linux directories and executing commands with a minimum of keystrokes. Presenter: Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited Peter recently retired from a lengthy career of lecturing and operating labs in Electrical Engineering at Ryerson University to pursue the Open Instrumentation Project. He has extensive experience in Engineering Education and consulting in electronic circuit design. Location: Room and building TBA - Seneca at York http://www.yorku.ca/web/futurestudents/map/KeeleMasterMap.pdf The Seneca at York Campus, which is physically located in the south east part of York University, at Keele/Steeles. (note that this room is different from the usual one) Directions: For detailed directions and info on public transit, please see: http://cs.senecac.on.ca/~praveen.mitera/seneca-directions.html Parking: Paid parking is available on campus (about: $8). Building #84 on the map above is a close-by parking garage. - note #87 the parking lot is no longer for visitors so PLEASE use the parking garage (#84) Outline: The Open Instrumentation Project (OIP) makes low cost measurement equipment -- hardware and Open Source Software -- available to engineers, hobbiests and students. First, we describe programming in the Tcl/Tk language with special emphasis on rapid creation of a graphical user interface. We show it has been used in the OIP, and how its capabilities can be applied to other instrument and control projects. We then provide some background on methods of interfacing to the PC and the functions of the legacy serial, printer and bus ports. The USB port is rapidly replacing these methods, and so we explain the advantages and challenges of using USB. We describe the hardware and software of a simple approach to the USB interface, and provide pointers to some USB debugging tools. This will be of interest to anyone building hardware that talks to a the USB interface. We will demonstrate Tcl/Tk and the USB interface with a 20MSample/second dual channel oscilloscope, and a 100kHz arbitrary waveform generator. We will show how these instruments can be operated together by an open-source program to form a vector network analyser. As our contribution to Command Line 101, we'll open with some basic tricks for moving around between Linux directories and executing commands with a minimum of keystrokes. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Herb Richter Richter Equipment, Toronto, Ontario http://PartsAndService.com http://PartsAndService.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 21 19:17:19 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 14:17:19 -0500 Subject: Where's the LVM utils? ( Debian - Ubuntu ) Message-ID: <200701211417.20015.mervc@eol.ca> Lots of good advice came my way, but it wasn't enough. Tim suggested I play with LVM so I took a hard drive and almost did a Debian Network install [command Line only]. During the partitioning before the install Debian created a primary partition for for /boot and the rest of the disk for LVM. The logical partition had / [root] and swap volumes [terminology?], however I would have liked swap, a 5 gig, /, and another [80 Gig] for /data however that didn't seem to be possible at that stage. After a 30 min session downloading files from York U. the install died during the install of the man package. Thats my life. Next I tried a Cmd line install of Ubuntu, at least I got a system but not quite what I wanted. It insisted that I couldn't create just a primary for /boot and the rest for LVM. I had to also create a primary for / [root partition] and then I could use the rest for LVM. In here it created a swap partition. The install proceded and I now have a bootable drive. Except I don't have the utilities that I need to work with LVM. No vgcreate, vgdisplay and so on. I installed lvm-common and lvm2 from the Ubuntu repositories but still none of the goodies. Unless I am missing something else that is pretty basic. Bottoms up.... -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 21 20:20:35 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 15:20:35 -0500 Subject: MythTv - the mythtv user Message-ID: <200701211520.35978.mervc@eol.ca> I have set up SuSE 10.2 on two computers and it was quite easy to get a mythtv frontend working. As part of the setup, the mythtv user was created by something. The fontend seems to function just fine with 'me' as the user, is there any reason to keep the mythtv user? -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 21 20:58:07 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 21 Jan 2007 15:58:07 -0500 Subject: Where's the LVM utils? ( Debian - Ubuntu ) In-Reply-To: <200701211417.20015.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701211417.20015.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: Merv Curley writes: > Lots of good advice came my way, but it wasn't enough. > > Tim suggested I play with LVM so I took a hard drive and almost did a Debian > Network install [command Line only]. What version of Debian? > During the partitioning before the > install Debian created a primary partition for for /boot and the rest of > the disk for LVM. Debian created or you created? For LVM, you will want to do the partitioning yourself, i.e. don't select "Automatic partitioning" but do select "Custom" in the partitioner. These aren't the exact names offered in the menu but you get the idea. > The logical partition had / [root] and swap volumes [terminology?], > however I would have liked swap, a 5 gig, /, and another [80 Gig] for > /data however that didn't seem to be possible at that stage. It's important to try and get terminology correct so we can better understand the problems you're having. If partitioned correctly, you will have one of two possible setups: Setup 1 Primary partition (e.g. /dev/hda1) Formatted as ext3, mounted on /boot. Primary partition (e.g. /dev/hda2) Physical volume (PV) for LVM. Setup 2 Primary partition (e.g. /dev/hda1) Formatted as ext3, mounted on /boot. Extended partition (e.g. /dev/hda2, or /dev/hda3, or /dev/hda4) Logical partition (/dev/hda5) Physical volume (PV) for LVM. In either case, you will have a single Volume Group (VG) comprised of the single PV. Within that VG, you will have a series of Logical Volumes (LV) for each of your file systems (/, /home, etc.) and swap. IIRC, this is done in the Debian/Ubuntu installer, roughly as follows: First, delete all existing partitions on your desk. Next, create a partition for /boot, arrange to format it as ext3 and mount on /boot. Next, create a partition (using the remaining space) for LVM. Tell the partitioner to use this as a physical volume for LVM. Finally, create your logical volumes (for /, swap, /home, etc.), choosing the format (ext3, swap, etc.) and mount point accordingly. > After a 30 min session downloading files from York U. the install died > during the install of the man package. Thats my life. That's unfortunate. > Next I tried a Cmd line install of Ubuntu, at least I got a system but not > quite what I wanted. What version of Ubuntu? > It insisted that I couldn't create just a primary for /boot and the rest > for LVM. I had to also create a primary for / [root partition] and then I > could use the rest for LVM. In here it created a swap partition. It sounds to me like you didn't use the partitioner correctly. It will insist you have a root file system but it won't care if it's on a physical partition or a logical volume. If it was insisting you needed a root file system, you must not have created one in a logical volume. The Debian/Ubuntu partitioner does take some getting used to. IIRC, there's a separate Configure LVM step. You must create the /boot partition first, then (I think) the partition for LVM (your single PV), then do the Configure LVM step. At this point, you'll have a bunch of logical volumes. You will then have to tell the partitioner how to use each LV, i.e. format as ext3, mount on /, etc. > The install proceded and I now have a bootable drive. > > Except I don't have the utilities that I need to work with LVM. No vgcreate, > vgdisplay and so on. I think this confirms that you didn't setup LVM in the partitioner. If you had, it would have installed these utilities. The bottom line is you need to work with the Debian/Ubuntu partitioner until you're convinced that you have the partitions, logical volumes, file systems, mount points, etc. exactly as you want them. If you don't, there's no point in proceeding beyond this step. There's no magic here, it's not going to create partitions or LVs you didn't tell it to create. Hope this helps and good luck. > I installed lvm-common and lvm2 from the Ubuntu > repositories but still none of the goodies. Unless I am missing something > else that is pretty basic. > > Bottoms up.... > > -- > Merv Curley > Toronto, Ont. Can > > SuSE 10.2 Linux > Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 21 22:25:47 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:25:47 -0500 Subject: Where's the LVM utils? ( Debian - Ubuntu ) In-Reply-To: References: <200701211417.20015.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <200701211725.47408.mervc@eol.ca> On Sunday 21 January 2007 15:58, Tim Writer wrote: Both installs were Edgy... > > It sounds to me like you didn't use the partitioner correctly. It will > insist you have a root file system but it won't care if it's on a physical > partition or a logical volume. If it was insisting you needed a root file > system, you must not have created one in a logical volume. > > The Debian/Ubuntu partitioner does take some getting used to. IIRC, there's > a separate Configure LVM step. You must create the /boot partition first, > then (I think) the partition for LVM (your single PV), then do the > Configure LVM step. At this point, you'll have a bunch of logical > volumes. You will then have to tell the partitioner how to use each LV, > i.e. format as ext3, mount on /, etc. > This was the key. I discovered that after I created the /boot and LVM partitions they had to be written to disk. Then I noticed the 'Configure the Logical Volume manager' line at the top with the Guide/Help lines. I configured the Volume Group, again, write to disk Finally got through the creation of 3 logical vol's of the size and mount points that I wanted. Write to disk and then the Ubuntu install started and is going on as I write this. Thanks so much for this help Tim and taking out time on a Sunday afternoon. I still have free space on the hard drive and unallocated space inside the Volume group so I can experiment with extending log. volumes and stuff like you and Lennart have explained. Regards Merv -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 21 23:44:13 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 18:44:13 -0500 Subject: Where's the LVM utils? ( Debian - Ubuntu ) In-Reply-To: <200701211417.20015.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701211417.20015.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <200701211844.13792.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Sunday 21 January 2007 14:17, Merv Curley wrote: > Next I tried a Cmd line install of Ubuntu, at least I got a system but not > quite what I wanted. ?It insisted that I couldn't create just a primary > for /boot and the rest for LVM. I had to also create a primary for / [root > partition] and then I could use the rest for LVM. In here it created a swap > partition. ?The install proceded and I now have a bootable drive. I do recall a bug where the Debian installer would "unselect" partitions that had been set up prior to setting up LVM ... On your bootable system is there an actual /boot partition now that it's up and running or did you boot files end up in /root? If so then you're probably getting hit by that old bug/quirk. On the booting system try "mount | grep /boot", here's my output (you should see similar): fraser at someserver:~$ mount | grep /boot /dev/md0 on /boot type ext3 (rw) There's an alternative boot CD for Ubuntu which among other things claims to add "LVM and/or RAID partitioning". Perhaps you have to use this alternative image in order to get fully functional LVM install (this is the CD I have always used so I'm not sure about it). If you do try a reinstall for any reason do ensure that after you've finalized your LVM config and specified where to mount each LV that you also review the configuration of your primary partition for /boot (and ensure that /boot is still listed as it's mount point). -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 22 10:17:14 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:17:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: radio-canada.ca uses strange m$ audio format ? Message-ID: What OSS software would one use to listen to radio-canada.ca's downloadable audio ? thanks, Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 22 11:45:36 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 06:45:36 -0500 Subject: radio-canada.ca uses strange m$ audio format ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e55af990701220345v18dba860rcd32f450a2726792@mail.gmail.com> On 1/22/07, Peter P. wrote: > What OSS software would one use to listen to radio-canada.ca's downloadable audio > ? mplayer seems to work just fine. I can play stuff through a plugin. The caching took a while though.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 22 14:55:13 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 09:55:13 -0500 Subject: Where's the LVM utils? ( Debian - Ubuntu ) In-Reply-To: <200701211417.20015.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701211417.20015.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20070122145513.GC25915@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 21, 2007 at 02:17:19PM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > Lots of good advice came my way, but it wasn't enough. > > Tim suggested I play with LVM so I took a hard drive and almost did a Debian > Network install [command Line only]. During the partitioning before the > install Debian created a primary partition for for /boot and the rest of > the disk for LVM. The logical partition had / [root] and swap volumes > [terminology?], however I would have liked swap, a 5 gig, /, and another [80 > Gig] for /data however that didn't seem to be possible at that stage. After a > 30 min session downloading files from York U. the install died during the > install of the man package. Thats my life. > > Next I tried a Cmd line install of Ubuntu, at least I got a system but not > quite what I wanted. It insisted that I couldn't create just a primary > for /boot and the rest for LVM. I had to also create a primary for / [root > partition] and then I could use the rest for LVM. In here it created a swap > partition. The install proceded and I now have a bootable drive. > > Except I don't have the utilities that I need to work with LVM. No vgcreate, > vgdisplay and so on. I installed lvm-common and lvm2 from the Ubuntu > repositories but still none of the goodies. Unless I am missing something > else that is pretty basic. > > Bottoms up.... The utilities are of course in /usr/sbin and /sbin and hence only in the path of root, not a regular user. 'su -' to root first. Using sudo (which ubuntu seems to love) means having to be explicit about the path to the tools or adding all the sbin directories to your own path first. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 22 15:02:18 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:02:18 -0500 Subject: Where's the LVM utils? ( Debian - Ubuntu ) In-Reply-To: <200701211417.20015.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701211417.20015.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20070122150218.GD25915@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 21, 2007 at 02:17:19PM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > Next I tried a Cmd line install of Ubuntu, at least I got a system but not > quite what I wanted. It insisted that I couldn't create just a primary > for /boot and the rest for LVM. I had to also create a primary for / [root > partition] and then I could use the rest for LVM. In here it created a swap > partition. The install proceded and I now have a bootable drive. Actually having / on LVM always seems like a bad idea to me (I never do it). Since the LVM config files are in /etc and being able to do any kind of recovery requires access to the LVM tools (/sbin) having at least that much of my system bootable even if LVM breaks (which I have managed to do before when trying to use pvmove on a whole LVM at once rather than individual LVs), being able to boot and have a working system (although minimal) to repair it is rather handy. If / is on LVM then you have essentially nothing if it breaks. You can try and get it repaired using something like knoppix or such, but it will be a lot harder since you still need to assemble the LVM in order to get at the config files needed to assemble the LVM. Having a small / for /etc, /boot, /bin and /sbin is much much safer. No need for having /boot and / seperate of course. I imagine 500M or so would do for that if /usr and /var are on LVM. Might be best to actually leave /var on / too and just have seperate LVs for subdirs of /var that need space (like databases in /var/lib and some of the stuff in /var/log, and probablt /var/spool and /var/cache). I am not entirely sure how important /var might be for booting. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 22 15:22:08 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:22:08 -0500 Subject: help with iptables In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070122152208.GE25915@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 19, 2007 at 10:56:03AM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: > Heres what I want to do > > I have a new mail spam filter machine I want to test before I change > the mx records > > > this machine I will call A receives mail and forwards it to B > > currently B is the MX > > So what I'd like to do is using iptables : > > route port 25 traffic currently going to B --> A except when it comes > from A > > I tried > > iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -m tcp -s ! A --dport 25 -j DNAT > --to-destination A > > but this didn't work > > suggestions ? iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -m tcp -s ! AexternalIP --dport 25 -j DNAT --to-destination AinternalIP You also need to change the source IP to be that of B's internal address on those connections matching this rule so that the reply will go from A to B and back to the original requestor. If A only has an internal IP (I doubt it based on your description) and uses B as the default gateway, then you only need a DNAT rule (since there is only an internal IP to forward to, but that is not your setup at all I take it). You could also do: iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -m tcp -s ! AexternalIP --dport 25 -j DNAT --to-destination AexternalIP along with a rule changing the sourceIP of the packet to that of B's external IP. You must make the reply go back to B so that it can send it back to the originator. This of course means all your logs on A will say the message is coming from B, which really sucks. Your line actually makes a connection show up on A that appears to come from the original site, so A will reply to the original site, which has no idea who A is or why A is sending it replies, since it was talking to B. That doesn't work. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 22 15:30:25 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:30:25 -0500 Subject: Where's the LVM utils? ( Debian - Ubuntu ) In-Reply-To: <20070122150218.GD25915-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200701211417.20015.mervc@eol.ca> <20070122150218.GD25915@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1169479825.29197.79.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 10:02 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Actually having / on LVM always seems like a bad idea to me (I never do > it). I do it all the time. And I'd have /boot on LVM if Grub would support it. > Since the LVM config files are in /etc and being able to do any > kind of recovery requires access to the LVM tools (/sbin) having at > least that much of my system bootable even if LVM breaks (which I have > managed to do before when trying to use pvmove on a whole LVM at once > rather than individual LVs), being able to boot and have a working > system (although minimal) to repair it is rather handy. If / is on LVM > then you have essentially nothing if it breaks. You can try and get it > repaired using something like knoppix or such, but it will be a lot > harder since you still need to assemble the LVM in order to get at the > config files needed to assemble the LVM. What about vgscan? It pulls the VG config from the VG descriptor area on the disk and reassembles volume groups. > Having a small / for /etc, > /boot, /bin and /sbin is much much safer. No need for having /boot and > / seperate of course. I imagine 500M or so would do for that if /usr > and /var are on LVM. Might be best to actually leave /var on / too and > just have seperate LVs for subdirs of /var that need space (like > databases in /var/lib and some of the stuff in /var/log, and probablt > /var/spool and /var/cache). I am not entirely sure how important /var > might be for booting. It may be safer but less convenient and it sounds messy. Now instead of efficiently using space you've got lots of spare space devoted to subdirs of /var. As long as you're resigned to needing a rescue disk when you have to repair LVMs then you should be okay. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 22 17:09:00 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:09:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: IT360 Show April 30 - May 2, 2007 Message-ID: <134004.25024.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I trust everyone here knows that the IT360 trade show is coming up April 30 - May 2, 2007. This show will include the old LinuxWorld Canada show. So, as with past LinuxWorld shows, GTALug is hoping to have a booth at the show (and yes I expect there will be discount deals on show passes for GTALug members, details to follow). Still, there are some questions to be resolved, like: - Volunteers to staff the booth? - I will be in touch with people who volunteered last year. - Anyone else interested please e-mail me. - Swag to be offered at the booth? - Fliers promoting GTALug will in some form be repeated. - Last year the Ubuntu people offered us CD ROMs, I gather this will be an issue this year. - Other swag we had last year (and could repeat): - Small hard red/white candy. - Round pin back buttons with the GTALug logo. - Some small mint flavoured chocolates. - Meeting at the show? - Last year we had a NewTLUG meeting at the show, do we want to do something similar this year? Say a MythTV/KnoppMyth/etc video demo. On the question of swag I have already been hearing suggestions for big/fancy/expensive swag items (like custom T-shirts), which I am going to do my best to veto. Bottom line on swag items is that the stuff has to be cost effective, namely if we spend $500 to attract say $200 worth of new members then the show is not worth our time/effort. So, I see two or three types of swag items, namely: - Stuff we are happy to put in the hands of every person there (likely just photocopied sheets talking about GTALug/NewTLUG/WestTLUG). - Stuff we supply as thanks to booth volunteers (something like the pinback buttons). - Stuff that we MIGHT give as a thank you for getting a GTALub membership (something beyond just the membership card). Well, just a few things to toss around the group... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 22 17:22:33 2007 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:22:33 -0500 Subject: Stress Testing Message-ID: Hello everyone, I've been given a server at work to "stress test" the hardware. The server will be used as a java server, running tomcat. Any suggestions for software to use? I'm currently running memtest86. Cheers, Randy -- Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world --John Lennon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 22 17:48:13 2007 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:48:13 -0500 Subject: MythTv - the mythtv user In-Reply-To: <200701211520.35978.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701211520.35978.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: I imagine certain maintainence scripts are run as the mythtv user (think mtd and so forth), and the backend records the shows as the mythtv user I believe (or at least the mythtv user seems to own everything in /media/mythtv/recordings (or where ever you put it)). I certainly wouldn't delete it, as it might be necessary for some of these tasks. Personally I have my system set up to automatically log in as the mythtv user and to run mythfrontend in the xsession file, and since my room mates also need access to the account, it's easier to have a semi-public mythtv user where we all know the password, rather than handing out my own username and password to all my room mates. Wouldn't want them changing my password on me, even by accident. On 1/21/07, Merv Curley wrote: > > I have set up SuSE 10.2 on two computers and it was quite easy to get a > mythtv > frontend working. As part of the setup, the mythtv user was created by > something. The fontend seems to function just fine with 'me' as the user, > is > there any reason to keep the mythtv user? > > > -- > Merv Curley > Toronto, Ont. Can > > SuSE 10.2 Linux > Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 22 17:58:08 2007 From: Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:58:08 -0500 Subject: Stress Testing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Hello everyone, > > I've been given a server at work to "stress test" the hardware. The > server will be used as a java server, running tomcat. Any suggestions > for software to use? I'm currently running memtest86. > > Cheers, > > Randy Try stresslinux. It is available as a bootable CDROM and as a bootable USB key file system. http://www.stresslinux.org/software.php _______________________________________________________________________________ Jason Shein Network Administrator ? Linux Systems Iovate Health Sciences Inc. 5100 Spectrum Way Mississauga, ON L4W 5S2 ( 905 ) - 678 - 3119 x 3136 1 - 888 - 334 - 4448, x 3136 (toll-free) jason.shein at iovate.com Customer Service. Collaboration. Innovation. Efficiency. Iovate's Information Technology Team _______________________________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL AND IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE REVIEW OF THE PARTY TO WHOM IT IS ADDRESSED. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS CONFIDENTIAL AND IS DISCLOSED TO YOU UNDER THE EXPRESS UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU WILL NOT DISCLOSE IT OR ITS CONTENTS TO ANY THIRD PARTY WITHOUT THE EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF AN AUTHORIZED OFFICER OF IOVATE HEALTH SCIENCES SERVICES INC. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS TRANSMISSION IN ERROR, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY RETURN IT TO THE SENDER. _______________________________________________________________________________ From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 22 18:10:35 2007 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:10:35 -0500 Subject: Stress Testing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1/22/07, Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Try stresslinux. It is available as a bootable CDROM and as a bootable USB > key file system. > > http://www.stresslinux.org/software.php Thanks Jason! That fits the bill perfectly. Cheers, Randy -- Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world --John Lennon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 22 18:13:05 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:13:05 +0000 Subject: IT360 Show April 30 - May 2, 2007 In-Reply-To: <134004.25024.qm-PUkK9LDfIAyB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <134004.25024.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 1/22/07, Colin McGregor wrote: > On the question of swag I have already been hearing > suggestions for big/fancy/expensive swag items (like > custom T-shirts), which I am going to do my best to > veto. Bottom line on swag items is that the stuff has > to be cost effective, namely if we spend $500 to > attract say $200 worth of new members then the show is > not worth our time/effort. Let me suggest a different tack... (By the way, I'm in a position to veto the fancy/expensive stuff, too, and I certainly will...) The question to ask about any would-be idea about swag is What good does it really do us??? The reason why companies give things out at shows, and indeed, why commerce takes place in the first place, is that people value whatever it is that they're getting *more* than they value whatever it is that they're trading for it. We're already intending to do that in the sense that GTALUG folk intend to spend time at the booth spending their (more or less valuable) time speaking with people that happen by. I expect the benefits seen to mostly be of an intangible nature; in view that most of the costs are also intangible, that seems a good trade :-). I don't see that giving out T-shirts, which would presumably go to mostly NON-members, who, if they value things properly, would *MORE* value a 1/2h conversation that provided useful ideas, is a particularly good deal for either us or for the recipients. Arguments can be made to the effect that we should be giving some things out; I'm happy to listen to and consider *good* arguments that present *good* reasons to do so. Time is short enough that *poor* reasons should be quickly dropped. - "Because it's cool" is a poor reason. - "Because I like swag" is a poor reason. Good reasons do not necessarily need benefits that have dollar signs beside them, but there does need to be a clear expectation of some kind of benefit. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 22 18:28:39 2007 From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Matt) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:28:39 -0500 Subject: IT360 Show April 30 - May 2, 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <134004.25024.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1169490519.4760.14.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> Something to consider: while I'm sure those who will volunteer to man the booth will do so out of good will, their time is still valuable. Some may take time off from their jobs, sacrificing either pay or future vacation time, to assist. In that vein, I suggest that the "swag" given to the volunteers should either be something "cool" or something practical. I'm pretty sure that most people don't need yet another t-shirt, and even USB flash drives are becoming somewhat old as a freebie. Perhaps something along the lines of a set of those extendable cables, or a set of a loopback & crossover adapters (like the ones they sell on ThinkGeek). Just my two cents. On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 18:13 +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 1/22/07, Colin McGregor wrote: > > On the question of swag I have already been hearing > > suggestions for big/fancy/expensive swag items (like > > custom T-shirts), which I am going to do my best to > > veto. Bottom line on swag items is that the stuff has > > to be cost effective, namely if we spend $500 to > > attract say $200 worth of new members then the show is > > not worth our time/effort. > > Let me suggest a different tack... (By the way, I'm in a position to > veto the fancy/expensive stuff, too, and I certainly will...) > > The question to ask about any would-be idea about swag is > What good does it really do us??? > > The reason why companies give things out at shows, and indeed, why > commerce takes place in the first place, is that people value whatever > it is that they're getting *more* than they value whatever it is that > they're trading for it. > > We're already intending to do that in the sense that GTALUG folk > intend to spend time at the booth spending their (more or less > valuable) time speaking with people that happen by. > > I expect the benefits seen to mostly be of an intangible nature; in > view that most of the costs are also intangible, that seems a good > trade :-). > > I don't see that giving out T-shirts, which would presumably go to > mostly NON-members, who, if they value things properly, would *MORE* > value a 1/2h conversation that provided useful ideas, is a > particularly good deal for either us or for the recipients. > > Arguments can be made to the effect that we should be giving some > things out; I'm happy to listen to and consider *good* arguments that > present *good* reasons to do so. Time is short enough that *poor* > reasons should be quickly dropped. > > - "Because it's cool" is a poor reason. > - "Because I like swag" is a poor reason. > > Good reasons do not necessarily need benefits that have dollar signs > beside them, but there does need to be a clear expectation of some > kind of benefit. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 22 18:29:07 2007 From: interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Interlug Lists) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:29:07 -0500 Subject: New LUG forming (Cambridge) Message-ID: <408ae1640701221029l425c1183g227a6fbd6c3772a5@mail.gmail.com> The initial organizational meeting for CambridgeLUG will be held tonight in Cambridge. Those TLUG list readers from West of Toronto with an interest in adding their voice are welcome to attend. Map and location: http://cambridgelug.org/taxonomy/term/1 Additional meetings are schdeuled and listed on the web site. http://cambridgelug.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 22 18:42:44 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:42:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: IT360 Show April 30 - May 2, 2007 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <27594.85158.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Christopher Browne wrote: > On 1/22/07, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > On the question of swag I have already been > hearing > > suggestions for big/fancy/expensive swag items > (like > > custom T-shirts), which I am going to do my best > to > > veto. Bottom line on swag items is that the stuff > has > > to be cost effective, namely if we spend $500 to > > attract say $200 worth of new members then the > show is > > not worth our time/effort. > > Let me suggest a different tack... (By the way, I'm > in a position to > veto the fancy/expensive stuff, too, and I certainly > will...) > > The question to ask about any would-be idea about > swag is > What good does it really do us??? I basically agree. In the case of fliers it puts info. as to who we are/how to find us in the hands of a group of people that is most likely to join us (all in our quest for global domination :-) ). Fliers are also dirt cheap to do in mass quantities. If a commercial firm is willing to give us some sort of interesting swag item to give away (like the Ubuntu disks last year), I am all ears. But I am not going to hold my breath on that score... The free item would have to meet the following characteristics: - Would have to be something that would encourage people to stop at our booth to talk. - No real work on our part (i.e.: just unpack and put on display). - Would have to be clearly Linux related. - Would have to be fairly small/light (i.e.: no moving hundreds of heavy boxes). Other stuff, like the pin-back buttons, or candy, in modest quantity, fairly cheap, and make a good show volunteer "thank you". Beyond the fliers that we would like to plaster the show with, some corporate goodies, and a modest quantity of volunteer thank you items, that should be it unless someone can make a VERY good (very hard to make) exception case... Colin. > The reason why companies give things out at shows, > and indeed, why > commerce takes place in the first place, is that > people value whatever > it is that they're getting *more* than they value > whatever it is that > they're trading for it. > > We're already intending to do that in the sense that > GTALUG folk > intend to spend time at the booth spending their > (more or less > valuable) time speaking with people that happen by. > > I expect the benefits seen to mostly be of an > intangible nature; in > view that most of the costs are also intangible, > that seems a good > trade :-). > > I don't see that giving out T-shirts, which would > presumably go to > mostly NON-members, who, if they value things > properly, would *MORE* > value a 1/2h conversation that provided useful > ideas, is a > particularly good deal for either us or for the > recipients. > > Arguments can be made to the effect that we should > be giving some > things out; I'm happy to listen to and consider > *good* arguments that > present *good* reasons to do so. Time is short > enough that *poor* > reasons should be quickly dropped. > > - "Because it's cool" is a poor reason. > - "Because I like swag" is a poor reason. > > Good reasons do not necessarily need benefits that > have dollar signs > beside them, but there does need to be a clear > expectation of some > kind of benefit. > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many > applications ..." > (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, > page 220) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 22 18:52:31 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:52:31 -0500 Subject: IT360 Show April 30 - May 2, 2007 In-Reply-To: <134004.25024.qm-PUkK9LDfIAyB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <134004.25024.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1169491951.29197.132.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 12:09 -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > I trust everyone here knows that the IT360 trade show > is coming up April 30 - May 2, 2007. This show will > include the old LinuxWorld Canada show. So, as with > past LinuxWorld shows, GTALug is hoping to have a > booth at the show (and yes I expect there will be > discount deals on show passes for GTALug members, > details to follow). Still, there are some questions to > be resolved, like: I asked the question of "what audience do you want to hit and with what message" before and essentially got the answer of everything. To be successful I think it needs to be more clear than that. Based on your recent post has it narrowed down to a membership drive? If that's true I think it is the right direction. A single page handout makes perfect sense so does a bonus for membership that is suitable for the amount of revenue. Aside from that it only makes sense to give out stuff obtained for free. Contact Red Hat, Novell, Ubuntu, Google, IBM, Lenovo, etc, for free stuff. I'm sure if you give them enough time they'll come through for you. I'd be glad to take on the Red Hat task for you. Then I think you need to spend some time on the handout. The audience you had said you wanted before was anyone including enthusiasts, newbies, IT professionals, decision makers, network and storage people. You may have to narrow this down a bit to fit on a one page handout. Do we have an graphic artists on the list? An attractive handout would make a difference. It may be time to line up your most attractive presentations for the months following the show and hope that they attract new members. What about guerrilla advertising? Is there anything we could do on the show floor that could draw attention? Maybe have staff wear scrolling LED name badges that read "Join TLUG Today" (or something better) and have them walk around the show floor. Wear them on a hat and it may be better. Or some custom tee shirts with a suitable message. Finally make sure the show staff all on the same page. We don't want someone selling to hard or two softly and we want both the message and the goal to be clear. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 22 23:43:30 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:43:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: IT360 Show April 30 - May 2, 2007 In-Reply-To: <1169491951.29197.132.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1169491951.29197.132.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <20070122234330.5314.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 12:09 -0500, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > I trust everyone here knows that the IT360 trade > show > > is coming up April 30 - May 2, 2007. This show > will > > include the old LinuxWorld Canada show. So, as > with > > past LinuxWorld shows, GTALug is hoping to have a > > booth at the show (and yes I expect there will be > > discount deals on show passes for GTALug members, > > details to follow). Still, there are some > questions to > > be resolved, like: > > I asked the question of "what audience do you want > to hit and with what > message" before and essentially got the answer of > everything. To be > successful I think it needs to be more clear than > that. > > Based on your recent post has it narrowed down to a > membership drive? If > that's true I think it is the right direction. Yes, the primary focus will be getting new members. > A single page handout makes perfect sense so does a > bonus for membership > that is suitable for the amount of revenue. Aside > from that it only > makes sense to give out stuff obtained for free. > Contact Red Hat, > Novell, Ubuntu, Google, IBM, Lenovo, etc, for free > stuff. I'm sure if > you give them enough time they'll come through for > you. I'd be glad to > take on the Red Hat task for you. I'll get back to you on that, There are folks involved in the group who work for RedHat, and I would like a word with them first... > Then I think you need to spend some time on the > handout. The audience > you had said you wanted before was anyone including > enthusiasts, > newbies, IT professionals, decision makers, network > and storage people. > You may have to narrow this down a bit to fit on a > one page handout. > > Do we have an graphic artists on the list? An > attractive handout would > make a difference. > > It may be time to line up your most attractive > presentations for the > months following the show and hope that they attract > new members. > > What about guerrilla advertising? Is there anything > we could do on the > show floor that could draw attention? Maybe have > staff wear scrolling > LED name badges that read "Join TLUG Today" (or > something better) and > have them walk around the show floor. Wear them on a > hat and it may be > better. Or some custom tee shirts with a suitable > message. Well, several years ago I did an LCD based name badge for a science fiction convention using a BASIC Stamp (using an earlier version of this): www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=27100 and a 16 character x 1 line display sort of along the lines of what you see here: www.411techsystems.com/html/lcd_outlet.html I put the who thing in a blue plastic project box, programmed it in BASIC (I could get messages of up to about 170 characters long, which wasn't bad given how (very) little memory the BASIC stamp had), and I could run it all for about 1 day off a 9V battery... So, that sort of guerrilla marketting can be done, but ... Other that hauling my original LCD badge out of retirement, and seeing if I can pull together enough parts for another badge from bits currently kicking around home, I don't see a cost effective case for smart badges here... Would be a fun project to revisit though :-) . Would also be interesting to find out if there are other cheaper solutions that would work (when I did my LCD badge, the BASIC Stamp was about the cheapest, smallest pre-assembled controller I could get my hands on...). Still other guerrilla tactics are worth looking into, for example I remember the one science fiction convention were the people promoting an upcomming convention were all wearing vests made from the same cotton print fabric, so if you saw said vest you knew you were talking to someone very involved with said convention ... Some sort of ... "gender agnostic" ... clothing item might be an idea (I'm not a T-Shirt fan, and ties are likely to be ... problematic), still... > Finally make sure the show staff all on the same > page. We don't want > someone selling to hard or two softly and we want > both the message and > the goal to be clear. True, and as with last year I will be going over what we can/can't say in the booth with volunteers... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 22 23:49:42 2007 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:49:42 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet Message-ID: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> Well... I finally convinced my friend in Kitchener to go with high-speed over dial-up, only to discover that DSL service is not yet available for their address... which surprises me, being as they are close to downtown... But I have checked their phone # on the Bell and Teksavvy, websites and actually emailed Teksavvy, and such appears to be the case. Rogers appears to be the only high-speed option available, but I have never setup a cable modem with Linux... and the Rogers FAQ states that a technician makes a house call to setup the modem, but not the software side of things (at least on the free install... and certainly not on Linux). Couple questions: Is there any special 'gotchas' configuring Rogers high-speed internet to use with Linux? My major concern is there might be some config or software install that requires a Windows box... which will not be available at this address. Can the cable modem be accessed and configured through a web browser? Does the Rogers cable modem act as a router and dynamically assign a IP address to the connected Linux box? Thanks! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 00:08:06 2007 From: jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jon Thiele) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:08:06 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00ea01c73e82$8ed39510$c601a8c0@plex31> No gotchas. Out of the modem, you get a CAT5 cable that connects either to your PC or to a router. I'd install a router. No config of the moden is required. Plug it in and the modem downloads its own config depending on the package you buy. The modem is not a router (at least not my box). Buy a router. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Armstrong Sent: 22-Jan-07 6:50 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Rogers high-speed internet Well... I finally convinced my friend in Kitchener to go with high-speed over dial-up, only to discover that DSL service is not yet available for their address... which surprises me, being as they are close to downtown... But I have checked their phone # on the Bell and Teksavvy, websites and actually emailed Teksavvy, and such appears to be the case. Rogers appears to be the only high-speed option available, but I have never setup a cable modem with Linux... and the Rogers FAQ states that a technician makes a house call to setup the modem, but not the software side of things (at least on the free install... and certainly not on Linux). Couple questions: Is there any special 'gotchas' configuring Rogers high-speed internet to use with Linux? My major concern is there might be some config or software install that requires a Windows box... which will not be available at this address. Can the cable modem be accessed and configured through a web browser? Does the Rogers cable modem act as a router and dynamically assign a IP address to the connected Linux box? Thanks! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 00:19:29 2007 From: csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin Smillie) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:19:29 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 1/22/07, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > > Can the cable modem be accessed and configured through a web browser? > > Does the Rogers cable modem act as a router and dynamically assign a > IP address to the connected Linux box? > > No real problem with connecting Linux with Rogers but the Rogers modem is essentially a black box that you never interact with. About once a year I need to unplug it but otherwise it just sits their with some blinking lights. In my case I connect the ethernet connection from the modem into a PC that runs Linux. The only problem challenge I encountered is that rogers assigns you a hostname to be used for DHCP requests. Once I figured out how to configure the DHCP-client to send the Rogers host name it wasn't a problem. Apparently Rogers uses the hostname to as part of the authentication/registration to the modem... Colin Smillie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dgardiner0821-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 00:26:36 2007 From: dgardiner0821-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (DANIEL GARDINER) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:26:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <244950.53669.qm@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Daniel Armstrong wrote: > Couple questions: > > Is there any special 'gotchas' configuring Rogers > high-speed internet > to use with Linux? My major concern is there might > be some config or > software install that requires a Windows box... > which will not be > available at this address. I was running Windows when I had my Rogers modem installed. The software they included was optional, it was mainly for trouble-shooting problems with your connection. I had no problems when I switched over to Linux and didn't have to configure the modem, just selected DHCP for my network. > Can the cable modem be accessed and configured > through a web browser? Couldn't say, haven't tried. Last I checked Rogers used a number of different models, and your area determined which one you received. (This is what the technician told me when he set it up. The orignal modem he brought wouldn't work because it was for a different area.) > Does the Rogers cable modem act as a router and > dynamically assign a > IP address to the connected Linux box? I believe so but I am far from an expert. Daniel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 01:54:53 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 20:54:53 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45B56AED.1070703@rogers.com> Daniel Armstrong wrote: > Well... I finally convinced my friend in Kitchener to go with > high-speed over dial-up, only to discover that DSL service is not yet > available for their address... which surprises me, being as they are > close to downtown... But I have checked their phone # on the Bell and > Teksavvy, websites and actually emailed Teksavvy, and such appears to > be the case. > > Rogers appears to be the only high-speed option available, but I have > never setup a cable modem with Linux... and the Rogers FAQ states that > a technician makes a house call to setup the modem, but not the > software side of things (at least on the free install... and certainly > not on Linux). > > Couple questions: > > Is there any special 'gotchas' configuring Rogers high-speed internet > to use with Linux? My major concern is there might be some config or > software install that requires a Windows box... which will not be > available at this address. You don't have to install any software. > > Can the cable modem be accessed and configured through a web browser? You only have to configure your ethernet port for DHCP. > > Does the Rogers cable modem act as a router and dynamically assign a > IP address to the connected Linux box? The cable modem acts as a modem. The DHCP server is elsewhere on the Rogers network. > > Thanks! Incidentally, I'm on Rogers at home and have the misfortune of having to deal with Sympatico at work. Rogers is much better from a reliability and performance perspective. The help desk, while not supporting Linux is actually quite helpful, unlike that so called help desk that Sympatico provides. Also, with Rogers, while your address is DHCP, it changes so seldom it's virtually static. Further, your host name, which is derived from your modem and computer MAC addresses, never changes. This means you can always reach your computer from elsewhere, using it's host name. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 01:57:51 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 20:57:51 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45B56B9F.3060101@rogers.com> Colin Smillie wrote: > > > On 1/22/07, *Daniel Armstrong* > wrote: > > Can the cable modem be accessed and configured through a web browser? > > Does the Rogers cable modem act as a router and dynamically assign a > IP address to the connected Linux box? > > > No real problem with connecting Linux with Rogers but the Rogers modem > is essentially a black box that you never interact with. About once a > year I need to unplug it but otherwise it just sits their with some > blinking lights. > > In my case I connect the ethernet connection from the modem into a PC > that runs Linux. The only problem challenge I encountered is that > rogers assigns you a hostname to be used for DHCP requests. Once I > figured out how to configure the DHCP-client to send the Rogers host > name it wasn't a problem. Apparently Rogers uses the hostname to as > part of the authentication/registration to the modem... I never had to do that. I simply configured the ethernet port for DHCP and nothing else. The host name is derived from computer and modem MAC addresses. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 02:14:18 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 21:14:18 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1169518458.7563.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 19:19 -0500, Colin Smillie wrote: > No real problem with connecting Linux with Rogers but the Rogers modem > is essentially a black box that you never interact with. About once a > year I need to unplug it but otherwise it just sits their with some > blinking lights. > > In my case I connect the ethernet connection from the modem into a PC > that runs Linux. The only problem challenge I encountered is that > rogers assigns you a hostname to be used for DHCP requests. Once I > figured out how to configure the DHCP-client to send the Rogers host > name it wasn't a problem. Apparently Rogers uses the hostname to as > part of the authentication/registration to the modem... The cable modem is a simple bridge, and doesn't have a web interface. The DHCP hostname is an old config and is not needed any more. The only gotcha that I can tell you is that the modem (i.e. bridge) learns the MAC address of the first device it talks to. If they change between a router and a PC they will need to power off the modem and wait until the lights go dark. The only Linux config needed is DHCP. I never recommend that anyone install software from their ISP regardless of the ISP. It's just too invasive and you don't know what the installed software actually is. At my house they installed a separate cable for Internet. If I make a mistake and connect a TV to the same line I have degraded Internet performance. If you send a lot of email (500+ per day) expect to be cut off. The first time all it will take is a phone to call to activate it. The second time, you'll be cut off for two weeks with no appeal. I hope it helps. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 02:19:47 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 21:19:47 -0500 Subject: IT360 Show April 30 - May 2, 2007 In-Reply-To: <20070122234330.5314.qmail-fjYszm/wOJWB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070122234330.5314.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1169518789.7563.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 18:43 -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > I'll get back to you on that, There are folks involved > in the group who work for RedHat, and I would like a > word with them first... No problem, I thought I would offer. > Well, several years ago I did an LCD based name badge > for a science fiction convention using a BASIC Stamp > (using an earlier version of this): > > www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=27100 > > and a 16 character x 1 line display sort of along the > lines of what you see here: > > www.411techsystems.com/html/lcd_outlet.html > > I put the who thing in a blue plastic project box, > programmed it in BASIC (I could get messages of up to > about 170 characters long, which wasn't bad given how > (very) little memory the BASIC stamp had), and I could > run it all for about 1 day off a 9V battery... Here is what I meant, http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/7c54/, US$29. I've seen ones like these in various places. > So, that sort of guerrilla marketting can be done, but > ... Other that hauling my original LCD badge out of > retirement, and seeing if I can pull together enough > parts for another badge from bits currently kicking > around home, I don't see a cost effective case for > smart badges here... Would be a fun project to revisit > though :-) . Would also be interesting to find out if > there are other cheaper solutions that would work > (when I did my LCD badge, the BASIC Stamp was about > the cheapest, smallest pre-assembled controller I > could get my hands on...). > > Still other guerrilla tactics are worth looking into, > for example I remember the one science fiction > convention were the people promoting an upcomming > convention were all wearing vests made from the same > cotton print fabric, so if you saw said vest you knew > you were talking to someone very involved with said > convention ... Some sort of ... "gender agnostic" ... > clothing item might be an idea (I'm not a T-Shirt fan, > and ties are likely to be ... problematic), still... Good comments. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cpchan-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 02:25:46 2007 From: cpchan-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Charles philip Chan) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 21:25:46 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <45B56AED.1070703-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> (James Knott's message of "Mon\, 22 Jan 2007 20\:54\:53 -0500") References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B56AED.1070703@rogers.com> Message-ID: <87y7nuiimt.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> On 22 Jan 2007, james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org wrote: > Incidentally, I'm on Rogers at home and have the misfortune of having > to deal with Sympatico at work. I am on Sympatico, and I have to admit that their help desk is useless. I once called them to inform them that one of their email servers is down, and the tech keeps trying to "help" me setup "Outhouse Excuse" (I told them I use Linux). > Rogers is much better from a reliability and performance perspective. Sympatico is not too bad if you can support yourself. Although the speed is slower than cable, but the speed is constant since I don't have to share my connection with the whole neighbourhood. > The help desk, while not supporting Linux is actually quite helpful, > unlike that so called help desk that Sympatico provides. I had some pretty bad experiences with them when trying to help a friend. Unfortunately there is really no good tech support at the larger ISP's since the calls are monitored and they have to read from a script. > Further, your host name, which is derived from your modem and computer > MAC addresses, never changes. This means you can always reach your > computer from elsewhere, using it's host name. Which is of no use since their TOS forbids servers, IIRC. Charles -- We are MicroSoft. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. (Attributed to B.G., Gill Bates) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 188 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 02:29:31 2007 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 21:29:31 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <45B56AED.1070703-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B56AED.1070703@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 1/22/07, James Knott wrote: > > > Incidentally, I'm on Rogers at home and have the misfortune of having to > deal with Sympatico at work. Rogers is much better from a reliability > and performance perspective. The help desk, while not supporting Linux > is actually quite helpful, unlike that so called help desk that > Sympatico provides. Also, with Rogers, while your address is DHCP, it > changes so seldom it's virtually static. Further, your host name, which > is derived from your modem and computer MAC addresses, never changes. > This means you can always reach your computer from elsewhere, using it's > host name. I've had the exact oppsite experience. I have both Bell Sympatico and Rogers High Speed at home. The Bell connection isn't fast, as I'm at the limit for distance from the CO and they've had to knock the profile speed down a little, but it's been rock solid for the last 18 months I've lived where I do. It doesn't slow down, screw up, drop packets, or anything. The Rogers connection goes down for a solid week every three months. I've spent untold numbers of hours on the phone (mostly on hold) at Rogers to get the problem fixed, had no less than 5 visits from their 'technicians' to find the source of the problem, to no avail. Only this Sunday, after sending them a battery of ping test results showing more than 90% packet loss for hours on end and making sure they gave me ticket numbers and such did they send out a 'senior technician'. The guy found the problem within 1 minute of attaching a piece of signal reading equipment to our line. The same equipment all five of the previous techs had brought and supposedly used. The problem is with the line before the tap, so they have to send a maintainence crew to the neighbourhood to get it fixed. This is 18 months since I first reported a problem. And by the time they get a crew out to fix it, it'll have been at least 2 weeks since I've been able to use the cable connection. Good thing I have DSL as well... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 02:37:00 2007 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 21:37:00 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <1169518458.7563.28.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <1169518458.7563.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10701221837t7af17762k7145ec91e6ed0f63@mail.gmail.com> On 1/22/07, John Van Ostrand wrote: > The cable modem is a simple bridge, and doesn't have a web interface. The > DHCP hostname is an old config and is not needed any more. The only gotcha > that I can tell you is that the modem (i.e. bridge) learns the MAC address > of the first device it talks to. If they change between a router and a PC > they will need to power off the modem and wait until the lights go dark. The > only Linux config needed is DHCP. I never recommend that anyone install > software from their ISP regardless of the ISP. It's just too invasive and > you don't know what the installed software actually is. > Thanks everyone for the replies... When I setup my friend's Linux box this weekend, I will configure the ethernet card to use DHCP, and when Rogers installs the cable modem it sounds like it is simply a matter of plugging in the cable and bringing up the interface, i.e. I don't have to be there to get it going. Thanks again for the help... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 04:22:11 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 23:22:11 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45B58D73.40602@ve3syb.ca> Daniel Armstrong wrote: > Is there any special 'gotchas' configuring Rogers high-speed internet > to use with Linux? My major concern is there might be some config or > software install that requires a Windows box... which will not be > available at this address. Not really. I went the "self install" route. The technicians came, ran the wires, connected the modem to the cable, ran some tests with a laptop to make sure the modem was online and talking to the Rogers network. The one catch with a self install is the computer/modem cabling. The only cable I got with my modem was a USB cable. I used it at first to get connected. I eventually switched to using Ethernet when I added a router to my local network. If you want to use USB to access the modem, you need to configure the hardware device settings for "USB CDC Ethernet driver". Accessing a cable modem using Ethernet is just a matter of picking the driver for your NIC. After that it was a simple matter of connecting a cable between the computer and the modem followed by configuring Linux to use DHCP on the NIC. You don't even need to enter your assigned hostname. I haven't and find I don't need to. BTW, If you get a Terayon cable modem, watch out. They are known to be flaky. If you start experiencing random disconnects from the Internet from time to time and a power cycle of the modem gets it on line after you have been using the modem a couple of months, the modem may be going bad on you. Report the problem to Rogers and track your outages. After bugging them about my outages and saying I suspect the modem may be bad, they replaced the modem on the second service call to my home. The two guys that came the second time were standing at the front door with a new Motorola Surfboard 5100 modem in hand. They said that when they hear of connection problems and know that a Terayon modem was involved, they just swap it out. Rogers even gave me one months access free to keep me happy after all the trouble. (I didn't ask for it.) If I had reported it sooner I might have gotten two months. > Can the cable modem be accessed and configured through a web browser? It can be accessed via a web browser. To access the modem and its status screen, enter the address of http://192.168.100.1/ in to your web browser. There is little in the way of any configuration you can do. You can get useful status information about the cable signal. > Does the Rogers cable modem act as a router and dynamically assign a > IP address to the connected Linux box? Yes. The following is from the web page served by the Motorola Surfboard 5100 cable modem I have. DHCP Server Enabled The SURFboard cable modem can be used as a gateway to the Internet by a maximum of 32 users on a Local Area Network (LAN). When the Cable Modem is disconnected from the Internet, users on the LAN can be dynamically assigned IP Addresses by the Cable Modem DHCP Server. These addresses are assigned from an address pool which begins with 192.168.100.11 and ends with 192.168.100.42. Statically assigned IP addresses for other devices on the LAN should be chosen from outside of this range If you add a router to the network at some point in time, just configure the WAN settings of the router to use the MAC address of the computer NIC. That is what I did when I added a wireless router and everything is working fine. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 04:29:49 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 23:29:49 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu question In-Reply-To: <45AD9BFB.1060403-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <45AD0B55.9070101@ve3syb.ca> <20070116184744.2c22052e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45AD8B12.8060503@ve3syb.ca> <45AD9BFB.1060403@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <45B58F3D.1060002@ve3syb.ca> Stephen Allen wrote: > Check your char set setup on your Linux box. The original was sent > us-ascii, but since your reply it was changed to UTF-8. > > Perhaps your X-Windows or E-mail client can't work with the conversion > properly. Is your system really set up for UTF-8? Just a thought anyways If that sig was in us-ascii it must be some form of unicode(?) coding since standard ascii would have been readable. I know my machine handles UTF-8 coding since I need that in support of the programming I do in relation to GIMP. Then again, perhaps my computer was just hiding that block of text from me since it knows I am not in the US. It may have felt it was saving me from what it thought could be US propaganda. ;-) -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 04:36:08 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 22 Jan 2007 23:36:08 -0500 Subject: Where's the LVM utils? ( Debian - Ubuntu ) In-Reply-To: <1169479825.29197.79.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <200701211417.20015.mervc@eol.ca> <20070122150218.GD25915@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1169479825.29197.79.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: John Van Ostrand writes: > On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 10:02 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > Actually having / on LVM always seems like a bad idea to me (I never do > > it). > > I do it all the time. Me too. > And I'd have /boot on LVM if Grub would support it. I probably wouldn't go that far. > > Since the LVM config files are in /etc and being able to do any > > kind of recovery requires access to the LVM tools (/sbin) having at > > least that much of my system bootable even if LVM breaks (which I have > > managed to do before when trying to use pvmove on a whole LVM at once > > rather than individual LVs), being able to boot and have a working > > system (although minimal) to repair it is rather handy. If / is on LVM > > then you have essentially nothing if it breaks. You can try and get it > > repaired using something like knoppix or such, but it will be a lot > > harder since you still need to assemble the LVM in order to get at the > > config files needed to assemble the LVM. > > What about vgscan? It pulls the VG config from the VG descriptor area on > the disk and reassembles volume groups. Yes, I've restored LVM using a rescue CD (Knoppix or RIP) and vgscan numerous times. pvscan is also useful. Note that the LVM tools were removed from Knoppix at one point; I don't know if they're back. > > Having a small / for /etc, > > /boot, /bin and /sbin is much much safer. No need for having /boot and > > / seperate of course. I imagine 500M or so would do for that if /usr > > and /var are on LVM. Might be best to actually leave /var on / too and > > just have seperate LVs for subdirs of /var that need space (like > > databases in /var/lib and some of the stuff in /var/log, and probablt > > /var/spool and /var/cache). I am not entirely sure how important /var > > might be for booting. /var is not required for booting. I (almost) always make /var a separate volume. > It may be safer but less convenient and it sounds messy. Now instead of > efficiently using space you've got lots of spare space devoted to > subdirs of /var. > > As long as you're resigned to needing a rescue disk when you have to > repair LVMs then you should be okay. I think it depends on what you're trying to achieve with LVM. I use LVM on my notebook to allow me to install multiple versions of Linux which requires a separate root file system for each distro. Doing this without root on LVM is a pain. In this case, the benefits of being able to run multiple distros outweighs any possible loss of safety. I also use LVM for safe distribution upgrades. For example, when upgrading from Dapper to Edgy, I cloned my Dapper LVs, booted into them, then upgraded. Had there been any problem with the upgrade, I could have easily reverted to Dapper. Again, this is difficult to do without root on LVM. In addition, I would also argue that this makes a potentially disastrous operation (a major upgrade) much safer. To my mind, facilitating safe upgrades is a substantial benefit which more than justifies the slight risk of root on LVM. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 04:32:48 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 23:32:48 -0500 Subject: Lecture--Chris Kelty on Free Software Message-ID: <1169526768.4676.13.camel@localhost> Hi Folks, I think I posted this to the list last week but here's a proper notice about Chris Kelty's talk on Friday. Hope to see some of you there. Matt -------- Forwarded Message -------- >Please Circulate >+ REMINDER + > >Women and Gender Studies Institute's BIOPOLITICS + TECHNOSCIENCE series. > >CHRIS KELTY, Rice University >FRIDAY, Jan. 26, 140 St. George Street, Room 205, 12-1:00pm >"Two Bits: The Cultural Significance of Free Software" >*Co-sponsored with Faculty of Information Studies > >Chris Kelty is assistant professor of anthropology at Rice University >whose research in the field of science and technology studies focuses >on internet culture and history, intellectual property, free and open >source software, public domains, authorship, and ownership in the >U.S., Europe and India. His forthcoming book, Two Bits, will be >published by Duke. As well as many articles in collected volumes, >Kelty has published in Anthropological Quarterly, Cultural >Anthropology, and Grey Room. > >ABSTRACT >Two Bits is an ethnographic and historical portrait of the emergence >of Free Software. It tracks the components of Free Software as they >came together from the 1970s to the 1990s (legally, technically, and >organizationally) and proposes a model for thinking about projects >that have emerged out of Free Software, such as open access, Creative >Commons, or open source biology. Of particular concern is how Free >Software functions as a "recursive public" or a public sphere that >includes both expressive and technical forms of discourse. > >This event is open to all. See for >future events. > >Sponsors: New College; Centre for the Study of the United >States;Equity Studies; Faculty of Information Studies; South Asian >Studies; Centre for Environment; African Studies; Centre for Diaspora >and Transnational Studies; History; SSHRC > >Organizers: Michelle Murphy (michelle.murphy-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org) and Brian >Beaton (brian.beaton-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org). > >Michelle Murphy >Associate Professor, >History Department and Women and Gender Studies Institute >University of Toronto >40 Willcocks St. >Toronto, ON M5S1C6 >416-978-8964 -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 04:52:23 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 22 Jan 2007 23:52:23 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B56AED.1070703@rogers.com> Message-ID: "Michael MacLeod" writes: > I've had the exact oppsite experience. I have both Bell Sympatico and Rogers > High Speed at home. The Bell connection isn't fast, as I'm at the limit for > distance from the CO and they've had to knock the profile speed down a > little, but it's been rock solid for the last 18 months I've lived where I > do. It doesn't slow down, screw up, drop packets, or anything. > > The Rogers connection goes down for a solid week every three months. I've > spent untold numbers of hours on the phone (mostly on hold) at Rogers to get > the problem fixed, had no less than 5 visits from their 'technicians' to > find the source of the problem, to no avail. Only this Sunday, after sending > them a battery of ping test results showing more than 90% packet loss for > hours on end and making sure they gave me ticket numbers and such did they > send out a 'senior technician'. The guy found the problem within 1 minute of > attaching a piece of signal reading equipment to our line. The same > equipment all five of the previous techs had brought and supposedly used. > The problem is with the line before the tap, so they have to send a > maintainence crew to the neighbourhood to get it fixed. This is 18 months > since I first reported a problem. And by the time they get a crew out to fix > it, it'll have been at least 2 weeks since I've been able to use the cable > connection. I won't go into the gory details but I had a similar experience with Sympatico. After months of complaining and full outages lasting days or weeks, they finally sent a senior technician who quickly resolved the problem. He admitted that the technicians I had talked to on the phone didn't actually run the line tests they had claimed, i.e. they simply lied to get me off the phone. The bottom line is both organizations are behemoths and, for them, the economics of support is such that the best strategy is to get you off the phone as soon as possible on the principle that most people don't call back and most problems are temporary and/or user error. We need more competition. Sigh. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 12:21:58 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 07:21:58 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <1169518458.7563.28.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <1169518458.7563.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45B5FDE6.3030606@rogers.com> John Van Ostrand wrote: > > The cable modem is a simple bridge, and doesn't have a web interface. Actually, mine has one, but it's only for status etc. You can't change much. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 12:29:22 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 07:29:22 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <87y7nuiimt.fsf-HasXQTlsvt1ah8WM/F5+tg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B56AED.1070703@rogers.com> <87y7nuiimt.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> Message-ID: <45B5FFA2.9050306@rogers.com> Charles philip Chan wrote: > On 22 Jan 2007, james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org wrote: > > >> Incidentally, I'm on Rogers at home and have the misfortune of having >> to deal with Sympatico at work. >> > > I am on Sympatico, and I have to admit that their help desk is > useless. I once called them to inform them that one of their email > servers is down, and the tech keeps trying to "help" me setup "Outhouse > Excuse" (I told them I use Linux). > > >> Rogers is much better from a reliability and performance perspective. >> > > Sympatico is not too bad if you can support yourself. Although the speed > is slower than cable, but the speed is constant since I don't have to > share my connection with the whole neighbourhood. > > While you don't share the pair of wires to your home, you do start sharing at the DSLAM, back at the CO. For example, I did some work for Sprint, a couple of years ago on their DSL. You've got 192 (IIRC) DSL lines sharing 2 DS3's (about 45 Mb each). >> The help desk, while not supporting Linux is actually quite helpful, >> unlike that so called help desk that Sympatico provides. >> > > I had some pretty bad experiences with them when trying to help a > friend. Unfortunately there is really no good tech support at the larger > ISP's since the calls are monitored and they have to read from a script. > One big difference at Rogers is you can escalate to someone more knowledgeable. At Sympatico, if you try to escalate, they'll hang up on you. I've had that experience, while working on a business account, where Bell was the prime contractor! Further, if you can't click on the "Start Button", they won't help you. Since I'm working with networking equipment that connects directly to the ADSL modem, there's no Start Button available and therefore no help. Unlike Rogers, they won't even attempt to help. > >> Further, your host name, which is derived from your modem and computer >> MAC addresses, never changes. This means you can always reach your >> computer from elsewhere, using it's host name. >> > > Which is of no use since their TOS forbids servers, IIRC. > I use it for VPN access to my home network, not running a "server". According to what I read on their website a while ago, that's acceptable use. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 12:52:21 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 07:52:21 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <45B58D73.40602-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B58D73.40602@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <45B60505.2070509@rogers.com> Kevin Cozens wrote: > Daniel Armstrong wrote: >> Does the Rogers cable modem act as a router and dynamically assign a >> IP address to the connected Linux box? > Yes. The following is from the web page served by the Motorola > Surfboard 5100 cable modem I have. > > DHCP Server Enabled > The SURFboard cable modem can be used as a gateway to the Internet by > a maximum of 32 users on a Local Area Network (LAN). When the Cable > Modem is disconnected from the Internet, users on the LAN can be > dynamically assigned IP Addresses by the Cable Modem DHCP Server. > These addresses are assigned from an address pool which begins with > 192.168.100.11 and ends with 192.168.100.42. Statically assigned IP > addresses for other devices on the LAN should be chosen from outside > of this range You'll note that the DHCP server is only functional when the modem is off-line. The modem doesn't act like on of those firewall/router boxes. > > If you add a router to the network at some point in time, just > configure the WAN settings of the router to use the MAC address of the > computer NIC. That is what I did when I added a wireless router and > everything is working fine. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 15:12:10 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 10:12:10 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <45B58D73.40602-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B58D73.40602@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <45B625CA.3050004@telly.org> Kevin Cozens wrote: > BTW, If you get a Terayon cable modem, watch out. They are known to be > flaky. If you start experiencing random disconnects from the Internet > from time to time and a power cycle of the modem gets it on line after > you have been using the modem a couple of months, the modem may be > going bad on you. Report the problem to Rogers and track your outages. Mine's a Scientific Atlanta Webstar. It doesn't do random disconnects, but I do find that its performance degrades over time and that a cablemodem reboot every two months or so improves transmission speed. > After bugging them about my outages and saying I suspect the modem may > be bad, they replaced the modem on the second service call to my home. > The two guys that came the second time were standing at the front door > with a new Motorola Surfboard 5100 modem in hand. They said that when > they hear of connection problems and know that a Terayon modem was > involved, they just swap it out. Rogers even gave me one months access > free to keep me happy after all the trouble. Rogers also did the same for me when I was having some sustained service problems. I've never done Internet with Bell -- and based on the problems I've had with phone service, I wouldn't trust them with my net access. After a month of problems afer moving in, which included hours on the phone with support (through that absolutely miserable PBX system) and many days of no service, their response -- two months later -- was to send me a $5 book of Tim Horton's gift certificates (which you know didn't cost Bell $5). As a result, I spend the minimum possible with Bell -- and now that I'm using Skype more, even my minimal Bell long distance usage will be reduced. I also find that Rogers is 'router friendly' in that they now seem to expect that most users will have a router, rather than a single PC, attached to the cablemodem. And I've had more than one phone call in which I've heard the phrase "well, we don't technically support Linux, but here's what has worked for other people...." has been spoken. > It can be accessed via a web browser. To access the modem and its > status screen, enter the address of http://192.168.100.1/ in to your > web browser. There is little in the way of any configuration you can > do. You can get useful status information about the cable signal. Thanks! I didn't know that. It worked for me as well. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 15:32:23 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 10:32:23 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070123153223.GA7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 06:49:42PM -0500, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > Well... I finally convinced my friend in Kitchener to go with > high-speed over dial-up, only to discover that DSL service is not yet > available for their address... which surprises me, being as they are > close to downtown... But I have checked their phone # on the Bell and > Teksavvy, websites and actually emailed Teksavvy, and such appears to > be the case. > > Rogers appears to be the only high-speed option available, but I have > never setup a cable modem with Linux... and the Rogers FAQ states that > a technician makes a house call to setup the modem, but not the > software side of things (at least on the free install... and certainly > not on Linux). > > Couple questions: > > Is there any special 'gotchas' configuring Rogers high-speed internet > to use with Linux? My major concern is there might be some config or > software install that requires a Windows box... which will not be > available at this address. > > Can the cable modem be accessed and configured through a web browser? > > Does the Rogers cable modem act as a router and dynamically assign a > IP address to the connected Linux box? You plug in ethernet cable, enable dhcp, use connection. That's it. -- Len Sroensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 15:34:57 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 10:34:57 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070123153457.GB7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 07:19:29PM -0500, Colin Smillie wrote: > No real problem with connecting Linux with Rogers but the Rogers modem is > essentially a black box that you never interact with. About once a year I > need to unplug it but otherwise it just sits their with some blinking > lights. > > In my case I connect the ethernet connection from the modem into a PC that > runs Linux. The only problem challenge I encountered is that rogers assigns > you a hostname to be used for DHCP requests. Once I figured out how to > configure the DHCP-client to send the Rogers host name it wasn't a problem. > Apparently Rogers uses the hostname to as part of the > authentication/registration to the modem... Most rogers areas no longer require the hostname as part of dhcp. They just use the modem MAC address instead. I think only areas still running the old 'giant heatsink' cablemodems use that system, assuming there are any of those left. Any area using DOCSIS compliant modems shouldn't need the silly hostname thing. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 15:42:47 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 10:42:47 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <87y7nuiimt.fsf-HasXQTlsvt1ah8WM/F5+tg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B56AED.1070703@rogers.com> <87y7nuiimt.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> Message-ID: <20070123154247.GC7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 09:25:46PM -0500, Charles philip Chan wrote: > Sympatico is not too bad if you can support yourself. Although the speed > is slower than cable, but the speed is constant since I don't have to > share my connection with the whole neighbourhood. But you do have to share the ISP and the rest of the internet with them. Big freaking deal. That claim is one of the lamest marketing scams the DSL people have come up with. DSL is very nice, and has the advantage of not having to deal with rogers, but the sharing with your neighbours thing is just a load of crap. Some cable areas may be badly designed and have too many users on one segment (cogeco seems to love doing this), but from what I have seen rogers does a decent job keeping the number reasonable (I have no problem getting 700KB/s transfers regularly). > Which is of no use since their TOS forbids servers, IIRC. All the larger generic consumer oriented ones have that. I don't consider having ssh access to my PC to make it a server. A web server or mail server would be another issue. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 15:48:41 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 10:48:41 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <45B625CA.3050004-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B58D73.40602@ve3syb.ca> <45B625CA.3050004@telly.org> Message-ID: <45B62E59.8000709@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Kevin Cozens wrote: >> BTW, If you get a Terayon cable modem, watch out. They are known to >> be flaky. If you start experiencing random disconnects from the >> Internet from time to time and a power cycle of the modem gets it on >> line after you have been using the modem a couple of months, the >> modem may be going bad on you. Report the problem to Rogers and track >> your outages. > Mine's a Scientific Atlanta Webstar. It doesn't do random disconnects, > but I do find that its performance degrades over time and that a > cablemodem reboot every two months or so improves transmission speed. > >> After bugging them about my outages and saying I suspect the modem >> may be bad, they replaced the modem on the second service call to my >> home. The two guys that came the second time were standing at the >> front door with a new Motorola Surfboard 5100 modem in hand. They >> said that when they hear of connection problems and know that a >> Terayon modem was involved, they just swap it out. Rogers even gave >> me one months access free to keep me happy after all the trouble. > Rogers also did the same for me when I was having some sustained > service problems. > > I've never done Internet with Bell -- and based on the problems I've > had with phone service, I wouldn't trust them with my net access. > After a month of problems afer moving in, which included hours on the > phone with support (through that absolutely miserable PBX system) and > many days of no service, their response -- two months later -- was to > send me a $5 book of Tim Horton's gift certificates (which you know > didn't cost Bell $5). As a result, I spend the minimum possible with > Bell -- and now that I'm using Skype more, even my minimal Bell long > distance usage will be reduced. A couple of years ago, I tried to help a neighbour get set up on Sympatico. After three different modems, including one which killed her phones, she went with Rogers, which has worked well from the start. > > I also find that Rogers is 'router friendly' in that they now seem to > expect that most users will have a router, rather than a single PC, > attached to the cablemodem. And I've had more than one phone call in > which I've heard the phrase "well, we don't technically support Linux, > but here's what has worked for other people...." has been spoken. Bell will now supply a modem/router/firewall combo, but that's useless for my work, which requires only a modem. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 15:48:29 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 10:48:29 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <45B58D73.40602-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B58D73.40602@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20070123154829.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 11:22:11PM -0500, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Not really. I went the "self install" route. The technicians came, ran > the wires, connected the modem to the cable, ran some tests with a > laptop to make sure the modem was online and talking to the Rogers network. > > The one catch with a self install is the computer/modem cabling. The > only cable I got with my modem was a USB cable. I used it at first to > get connected. I eventually switched to using Ethernet when I added a > router to my local network. I got both usb and ethernet cables, and the technician did no testing other than check the modem synced up and got online. I thought that was perfectly good enough for me. > BTW, If you get a Terayon cable modem, watch out. They are known to be > flaky. If you start experiencing random disconnects from the Internet > from time to time and a power cycle of the modem gets it on line after > you have been using the modem a couple of months, the modem may be going > bad on you. Report the problem to Rogers and track your outages. Well I am using one of the Motorola modems. I have used the Terayon Pro modem in the past which worked fine. Not sure about the original Terayon model. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 17:25:45 2007 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:25:45 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <20070123154247.GC7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B56AED.1070703@rogers.com> <87y7nuiimt.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> <20070123154247.GC7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070123172545.GD20380@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 10:42:47AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 09:25:46PM -0500, Charles philip Chan wrote: > > Sympatico is not too bad if you can support yourself. Although the speed > > is slower than cable, but the speed is constant since I don't have to > > share my connection with the whole neighbourhood. > > But you do have to share the ISP and the rest of the internet with them. > Big freaking deal. That claim is one of the lamest marketing scams the > DSL people have come up with. DSL is very nice, and has the advantage > of not having to deal with rogers, but the sharing with your neighbours > thing is just a load of crap. Some cable areas may be badly designed > and have too many users on one segment (cogeco seems to love doing > this), but from what I have seen rogers does a decent job keeping the > number reasonable (I have no problem getting 700KB/s transfers > regularly). More a case of outliving its best-before date - the original cable service in most areas was widely reported to nosedive down to dial-up speed in the early evening. As the cable companies put better equipment into the local neighbourhoods so that there were fewer people sharing the local connection, that became less of an issue. The memory takes a lot longer to go away. > > Which is of no use since their TOS forbids servers, IIRC. > > All the larger generic consumer oriented ones have that. I don't > consider having ssh access to my PC to make it a server. A web server > or mail server would be another issue. That's the killer for me. I want to run my own mail server to support my own domain; having a web server is something I haven't done but if I did it would not be to broadcast info to the world, but to allow me remote access to things on the local system (which I currently do through ssh), so an ISP-provided web site is of no value. The mail "server" is only handling my family's email, nothing commercial, so I view terms that forbid it as carelessly attempting to solve a problem that is not relevant in my case with an overbroad policy. I switched from Sympatico for my DSL service when Sympatico started blocking incoming SMTP. And since Sympatico lied and told me that they had not made such a change when I first asked, and only admitted it after I'd spent a lot of time trying to find some other cause for the problem, I'm not planning to return. (Their arrangements with MS have just cemented that feeling.) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 16:26:18 2007 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:26:18 -0500 Subject: IT360 Show April 30 - May 2, 2007 In-Reply-To: <1169518789.7563.33.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <20070122234330.5314.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1169518789.7563.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Rather than focusing on giveaways, why not do some mini-lectures on some technical Linux topics? Set up a small theater; a white board (or projection screen) and some chairs. Something sort of like the ones that I did at the IBM booth last year. They don't have to be long, just 15-20 minutes, on some topic that you're familiar with, or find cool, or neat about Linux. Some example topics that come to mind are: - MythTV overview - Digital camera software demo or example - Music management under Linux (using amaroK and an iPod, or whatever) - Games under Linux... do they exist? You can even pillage some of the topics that were presented in the last year in NewTLUG and GTALUG; even get those presenters to do them again. That way, people can see first hand what we're all about, what the talks are like, and meet the "core" members and contributors of the LUGs. pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 16:30:57 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:30:57 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <20070123172545.GD20380-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B56AED.1070703@rogers.com> <87y7nuiimt.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> <20070123154247.GC7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070123172545.GD20380@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <45B63841.5060109@rogers.com> John Macdonald wrote: >> All the larger generic consumer oriented ones have that. I don't >> consider having ssh access to my PC to make it a server. A web server >> or mail server would be another issue. >> > > That's the killer for me. I want to run my own mail server > to support my own domain; having a web server is something I > haven't done but if I did it would not be to broadcast info to > the world, but to allow me remote access to things on the local > system (which I currently do through ssh), so an ISP-provided > web site is of no value. The mail "server" is only handling > my family's email, nothing commercial, so I view terms that > forbid it as carelessly attempting to solve a problem that is > not relevant in my case with an overbroad policy. > I run an IMAP mail server on my home network. However, it's not accessible from the net, except via VPN. I use fetchmail to bring the mail in. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 16:42:00 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:42:00 -0500 Subject: IT360 Show April 30 - May 2, 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <20070122234330.5314.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1169518789.7563.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1169570520.29197.195.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 11:26 -0500, Paul Mora wrote: > Rather than focusing on giveaways, why not do some mini-lectures on > some technical Linux topics? Set up a small theater; a white board > (or projection screen) and some chairs. Something sort of like the > ones that I did at the IBM booth last year. They don't have to be > long, just 15-20 minutes, on some topic that you're familiar with, or > find cool, or neat about Linux. Some example topics that come to mind > are: There won't be much room in a 10x10' area. I like the idea of presentations, but it may involve permission from the show management and would require advertising support to ensure attendance. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 17:11:16 2007 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:11:16 -0500 Subject: IT360 Show April 30 - May 2, 2007 In-Reply-To: <1169570520.29197.195.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070122234330.5314.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1169518789.7563.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169570520.29197.195.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: On 1/23/07, John Van Ostrand wrote: > There won't be much room in a 10x10' area. I like the idea of > presentations, but it may involve permission from the show management > and would require advertising support to ensure attendance. All you need to do to "ensure attendance" is to have interesting presentations. You'll get the people walking around the show floor. I agree that 10X10' is not much space to work though. pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Registered Linux user #2065 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 17:21:02 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:21:02 -0500 Subject: IT360 Show April 30 - May 2, 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <20070122234330.5314.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1169518789.7563.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169570520.29197.195.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <45B643FE.60808@rogers.com> Paul Mora wrote: > On 1/23/07, John Van Ostrand wrote: > >> There won't be much room in a 10x10' area. I like the idea of >> presentations, but it may involve permission from the show management >> and would require advertising support to ensure attendance. > > All you need to do to "ensure attendance" is to have interesting > presentations. You'll get the people walking around the show floor. > I agree that 10X10' is not much space to work though. > > pm > It's bigger than a "fixer upper" apartment in the Knightsbridge area of London, England, mentioned in today's Toronto Star. It's 77 square feet and going for about $400,000!!! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 17:26:17 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:26:17 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <20070123172545.GD20380-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B56AED.1070703@rogers.com> <87y7nuiimt.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> <20070123154247.GC7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070123172545.GD20380@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20070123122617.3a442031@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:25:45 -0500 John Macdonald got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 10:42:47AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 09:25:46PM -0500, Charles philip Chan wrote: > > > Sympatico is not too bad if you can support yourself. Although the speed > > > is slower than cable, but the speed is constant since I don't have to > > > share my connection with the whole neighbourhood. > > > > But you do have to share the ISP and the rest of the internet with them. > > Big freaking deal. That claim is one of the lamest marketing scams the > > DSL people have come up with. DSL is very nice, and has the advantage > > of not having to deal with rogers, but the sharing with your neighbours > > thing is just a load of crap. Some cable areas may be badly designed > > and have too many users on one segment (cogeco seems to love doing > > this), but from what I have seen rogers does a decent job keeping the > > number reasonable (I have no problem getting 700KB/s transfers > > regularly). > > More a case of outliving its best-before date - the original > cable service in most areas was widely reported to nosedive down > to dial-up speed in the early evening. As the cable companies > put better equipment into the local neighbourhoods so that there > were fewer people sharing the local connection, that became less > of an issue. The memory takes a lot longer to go away. > > > > Which is of no use since their TOS forbids servers, IIRC. > > > > All the larger generic consumer oriented ones have that. I don't > > consider having ssh access to my PC to make it a server. A web server > > or mail server would be another issue. > > That's the killer for me. I want to run my own mail server > to support my own domain; having a web server is something I > haven't done but if I did it would not be to broadcast info to > the world, but to allow me remote access to things on the local > system (which I currently do through ssh), so an ISP-provided > web site is of no value. The mail "server" is only handling > my family's email, nothing commercial, so I view terms that > forbid it as carelessly attempting to solve a problem that is > not relevant in my case with an overbroad policy. Bingo. What always bugged me was that these id10ts would outright ban something as benign as a what you describe, without the faintest idea of what they were even talking about. I understand they have to watch out for people like me inadvertantly setting up an open relay, but I really don't see what's wrong with accepting inbound mail. I just went through an 'outage' which would not let me retrieve my mail for 12 hours, and despite the fact it was the first problem I've experienced with Sympatico in over a year, it was...disconcerting. Having my own mail server, at least to accept incoming mail, would have allowed me to bypass this 'outage' and in fact I never would have even known it was happening. Of course, they don't seem to have any specific problem with all the youngsters downloading many GB's through what, for all intents and purposes is a *massive network of easily compromised servers*, AKA P2P. Good luck trying to explain that to them. What a bunch of dolts. > I switched from Sympatico for my DSL service when Sympatico > started blocking incoming SMTP. And since Sympatico lied and > told me that they had not made such a change when I first > asked, and only admitted it after I'd spent a lot of time > trying to find some other cause for the problem, I'm not > planning to return. (Their arrangements with MS have just > cemented that feeling.) Tough call for me. I get a pretty good deal on the monthly rate, and like I say, the service has been by and large reliable. However, after 12 hours with no mail, I was basically told a lie (it was an 'accident'...riiiiiiight), then hung up on when I had the temerity to demand a supervisor. My call to their 'Executive Office' for complaints, or whatever, has so far gone unanswered. This arrangement with MS will doubtless become the breaking point when, at some point, I need to actually admin my e-mail accounts. As far as I can tell, I would need to set up a Passport account with MS in order to access my Sympatico e-mail service via the web. There's about as much chance of me setting up a Passport account as there is me flapping my arms and flying to the moon. Looking at Teksavvy right now, just trying to figure out if the Alcatel Speed Touch modem I have is the right one, really cannot afford a new one right now (this has always been the breaking point for me, is having to buy/rent a new modem). -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: Fry, of all the friends I've had, you're the first. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 18:38:48 2007 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:38:48 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <45B63841.5060109-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B56AED.1070703@rogers.com> <87y7nuiimt.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> <20070123154247.GC7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070123172545.GD20380@lupus.perlwolf.com> <45B63841.5060109@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070123183848.GE20380@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 11:30:57AM -0500, James Knott wrote: > John Macdonald wrote: > >>All the larger generic consumer oriented ones have that. I don't > >>consider having ssh access to my PC to make it a server. A web server > >>or mail server would be another issue. > >> > > > >That's the killer for me. I want to run my own mail server > >to support my own domain; having a web server is something I > >haven't done but if I did it would not be to broadcast info to > >the world, but to allow me remote access to things on the local > >system (which I currently do through ssh), so an ISP-provided > >web site is of no value. The mail "server" is only handling > >my family's email, nothing commercial, so I view terms that > >forbid it as carelessly attempting to solve a problem that is > >not relevant in my case with an overbroad policy. > > > > I run an IMAP mail server on my home network. However, it's not > accessible from the net, except via VPN. I use fetchmail to bring the > mail in. It's the SMTP server that is the significant issue for me - the one that fetchmail would connect to. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 17:38:12 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:38:12 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <20070123154247.GC7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <87y7nuiimt.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> <20070123154247.GC7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200701231238.13426.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Tuesday 23 January 2007 10:42, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 09:25:46PM -0500, Charles philip Chan wrote: > > Sympatico is not too bad if you can support yourself. Although > > the speed is slower than cable, but the speed is constant since I > > don't have to share my connection with the whole neighbourhood. > > But you do have to share the ISP and the rest of the internet with > them. Big freaking deal. That claim is one of the lamest marketing > scams the DSL people have come up with. DSL is very nice, and has > the advantage of not having to deal with rogers, but the sharing > with your neighbours thing is just a load of crap. Some cable > areas may be badly designed and have too many users on one segment > (cogeco seems to love doing this), but from what I have seen rogers > does a decent job keeping the number reasonable (I have no problem > getting 700KB/s transfers regularly). I find the Sympatico ads annoying and misleading as well. I'm surprised someone hasn't complained to the appropriate authorities (Competition Bureau?) about their claims that Sympatico users don't share their connection. I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever that DSL is more consistent or faster, or vice versa. It really depends on the neighbourhood and even the specific installation. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 17:44:25 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:44:25 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <20070123172545.GD20380-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <20070123154247.GC7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070123172545.GD20380@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <200701231244.25985.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Tuesday 23 January 2007 12:25, John Macdonald wrote: > On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 10:42:47AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 09:25:46PM -0500, Charles philip Chan wrote: > > > Which is of no use since their TOS forbids servers, IIRC. > > > > All the larger generic consumer oriented ones have that. I don't > > consider having ssh access to my PC to make it a server. A web > > server or mail server would be another issue. > > That's the killer for me. I want to run my own mail server > to support my own domain; having a web server is something I > haven't done but if I did it would not be to broadcast info to > the world, but to allow me remote access to things on the local > system (which I currently do through ssh), so an ISP-provided > web site is of no value. The mail "server" is only handling > my family's email, nothing commercial, so I view terms that > forbid it as carelessly attempting to solve a problem that is > not relevant in my case with an overbroad policy. > > I switched from Sympatico for my DSL service when Sympatico > started blocking incoming SMTP. And since Sympatico lied and > told me that they had not made such a change when I first > asked, and only admitted it after I'd spent a lot of time > trying to find some other cause for the problem, I'm not > planning to return. (Their arrangements with MS have just > cemented that feeling.) Anyone running an smtp server these days on a DSL or cable modem connection, even if their ISP is going to provider reverse DNS for them (unlikely), should know that some unknown percentage of mail servers are going to silently drop their mail before it ever reaches the intended recipient. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 17:45:04 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:45:04 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <20070123122617.3a442031-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B56AED.1070703@rogers.com> <87y7nuiimt.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> <20070123154247.GC7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070123172545.GD20380@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070123122617.3a442031@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20070123174503.GA12949@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 12:26:17PM -0500, JoeHill wrote: >> > But you do have to share the ISP and the rest of the internet with them. >> > Big freaking deal. That claim is one of the lamest marketing scams the >> > DSL people have come up with. DSL is very nice, and has the advantage >> > of not having to deal with rogers, but the sharing with your neighbours >> > thing is just a load of crap. Some cable areas may be badly designed The key is that there is no requirement for Rogers to allow resellers, so you have to deal with Rogers. This is a dealbreaker. I always get 500kb/s, I have a static IP, my tech support (called four times in two years) knows Linux, and I can run whatever servers I want, and it costs $34 per month, tax in, total. I'm with Teksavvy. >Looking at Teksavvy right now, just trying to figure out if the Alcatel Speed >Touch modem I have is the right one, really cannot afford a new one right now >(this has always been the breaking point for me, is having to buy/rent a new >modem). Call them - they'll know and they'll actually tell you. I think it will be fine. With an ISP you want two things in terms of service (and in Terms of Service, when it comes to that): 1. tech support with a clue and reasonable policies 2. clout when it comes to dealing with the underlying carrier - a reseller's business is much more valuable to BellNexxia than your individual business is to any corporate entity. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 17:55:01 2007 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:55:01 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <20070123122617.3a442031-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B56AED.1070703@rogers.com> <87y7nuiimt.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> <20070123154247.GC7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070123172545.GD20380@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070123122617.3a442031@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10701230955x6244fc92s807e350685af91b@mail.gmail.com> On 1/23/07, JoeHill wrote: > Looking at Teksavvy right now, just trying to figure out if the Alcatel Speed > Touch modem I have is the right one, really cannot afford a new one right now > (this has always been the breaking point for me, is having to buy/rent a new > modem). Watch eBay for the SpeedTouch modems... some great deals appear from time to time. I picked up a SpeedTouch 546 (one of the models used by Teksavvy) a few months ago brand-new for ~$45 Cdn., including shipping. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 17:56:24 2007 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:56:24 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <20070123174503.GA12949-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B56AED.1070703@rogers.com> <87y7nuiimt.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> <20070123154247.GC7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070123172545.GD20380@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070123122617.3a442031@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070123174503.GA12949@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On 1/23/07, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > The key is that there is no requirement for Rogers to allow resellers, > so you have to deal with Rogers. This is a dealbreaker. I always get > 500kb/s, I have a static IP, my tech support (called four times in two > years) knows Linux, and I can run whatever servers I want, and it costs > $34 per month, tax in, total. I'm with Teksavvy. > > With an ISP you want two things in terms of service (and in Terms of > Service, when it comes to that): > > 1. tech support with a clue and reasonable policies > 2. clout when it comes to dealing with the underlying carrier - a > reseller's business is much more valuable to BellNexxia than your > individual business is to any corporate entity. > I currently work for a third party telecommunications company in tech support, and not all techs are made equal. Having worked in tech support, I can tell you that I will *always* call right back if my first call didn't satisfy my problem. Chances are, you'll get a different tech who will be competent. It seems to be this way with everyone in the business, and it's not necessarily the companies' fault. Hiring and training good tech support staff is hard and expensive, and keeping them is even harder. The good ones of course tend to get promoted out of tech support and into the internal IT department or to the NOC, which is also a drain on talent in the tech support department. It's kinda the mail room of the 21st century. I've personally had terrible techs at both Bell and Rogers, but also some very decent techs at both companies as well. I've managed to speak to tier 2 techs at both companies, and found them to be very knowledgeable. Both seem to be a crapshoot on tier 1, but the tier 2 techs have a future and a salary, and do a decent job. The useless tier 1 technicians are there to help the majority of useless customers. While you may be a very knowledgeable linux user, the majority of the calls these people get are outright crazy. People filtering their modems not the phones, people trying to plug their computer into the box the modem came in (I'm not kidding, I've seen that). But, if you can keep a tier 1 technician on the phone for about 15 minutes, they're past their 'average call resolution time' and wont mind doing up a ticket and sending you to a second level tech in order to keep their call times down. Level one is essentially there to make sure the second level doesn't have to deal with blazing idiots and simple problems. As for the 'sharing the internet with the neighbourhood' claim, John Macdonald got it right earlier that it's merely a claim that's not as true as it used to be. But anyone who's done tech support for a VoIP service will certainly be able to find you examples where it's true today. Standard troubleshooting for intermittent quality problems should always include "are there specific times of the day where the quality is bad? For instance, is it okay during the daytime but get bad around 3:30 or 4:00 and start getting better again around 9:30 or 10:00?". Believe me, it still happens. The problem with third party ISP's running through Bell Nexxia, is that you have another layer of corporation between you and someone who can fix your problem. Since the third party companies can't send out their own technicians, they have to book appointments with Bell to send out Entourage technicians to fix your problem. And I'm pretty sure Bell will deal with their own problems first. Plus, you're still at the mercy of any labour disputes between Entourage and Bell. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 18:22:07 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:22:07 -0500 Subject: IT360 Show April 30 - May 2, 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <20070122234330.5314.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1169518789.7563.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169570520.29197.195.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <1169576527.29197.204.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 12:11 -0500, Paul Mora wrote: > All you need to do to "ensure attendance" is to have interesting > presentations. You'll get the people walking around the show floor. > I agree that 10X10' is not much space to work though. Well, to fill a 10x10 it might do, but think of the effect of clogging an aisle with people who are interested in hearing a demo. This can only be had with scheduled presentations. Put it on a sign outside the booth and on the handouts and have the booth staff promote it. That's the advertising that I meant. Last year there were show-floor presentation time available that Net Direct helped to fill. I recommend you keep in contact with Janice (the IT World rep) and make her aware that you have some presentations available if she needs them in a pinch. There may be other opportunities too. The Toronto Asterisk User Group was asked to create a "mini" asterisk conference for the show. I think IT360 is working harder than ever to attract attendees and exhibitors. Maybe there's an opportunity to do something similar with TLUG. Brainstorming with Janice may make that happen. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 19:04:01 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:04:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: IT360 Show April 30 - May 2, 2007 In-Reply-To: <1169576527.29197.204.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1169576527.29197.204.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <773497.26135.qm@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 12:11 -0500, Paul Mora wrote: > > All you need to do to "ensure attendance" is to > have interesting > > presentations. You'll get the people walking > around the show floor. > > I agree that 10X10' is not much space to work > though. I was at the GTALug meeting last evening (which had Evan Leibovitch of CLUE in attendance), and I have been talking to the show organizers. A few things that are getting kicked around include: - Arranging to have multiple (well, 2+) booths beside each other, such as possibly GTALug and CLUE, so that in effect we might be talking a 10' x 20' booth shared by 2 groups (or some other multiple of 10' x 10'). This is still a bit up in the air (both CLUE and the show organizers are willing to consider this idea, but ... don't hold your breath...). - As happened last year the show has offered us a room in the evening. Last year we used the room offered to us for the regular NewTLUG meeting, which I gather made a very favourable impression on the show organizers. Assuming we can do everything with just standard AV equipment (i.e.: if we want Internet access there will be a charge to us) the doing some sort of presentation(s) in the evening would be trivial to arrange. - Evan is involved in helping set-up a VOIP program track for the show (thus I assume the Asterisk people and their involvement). - An idea was kicked around about possibly taking last year's NewTLUG presentation and recycling it for this year's show as part of the (paid) program track... I would be nervous about doing in-booth presentations with anything less than a 20' x 20' booth. While 2 groups uniting for a bigger booth is very possible, I very much doubt we will get to 4 groups together, Further we would need the show organizers to sign off. Finally not only would we need groups beside each other we would need all four groups to agree to give up some of their space to a presentation area... Far too easy for any of these items to derail the process... In other words, doing an evening presentation is very possible, on the show floor, no... > Well, to fill a 10x10 it might do, but think of the > effect of clogging > an aisle with people who are interested in hearing a > demo. This can only > be had with scheduled presentations. Put it on a > sign outside the booth > and on the handouts and have the booth staff promote > it. That's the > advertising that I meant. > > Last year there were show-floor presentation time > available that Net > Direct helped to fill. I recommend you keep in > contact with Janice (the > IT World rep) and make her aware that you have some > presentations > available if she needs them in a pinch. > > There may be other opportunities too. The Toronto > Asterisk User Group > was asked to create a "mini" asterisk conference for > the show. I think > IT360 is working harder than ever to attract > attendees and exhibitors. > Maybe there's an opportunity to do something similar > with TLUG. > Brainstorming with Janice may make that happen. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 19:27:14 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:27:14 -0500 Subject: IT360 Show April 30 - May 2, 2007 In-Reply-To: <773497.26135.qm-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <773497.26135.qm@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45B66192.1090806@telly.org> Colin McGregor wrote: > - Arranging to have multiple (well, 2+) booths beside > each other, such as possibly GTALug and CLUE, so that > in effect we might be talking a 10' x 20' booth shared > by 2 groups (or some other multiple of 10' x 10'). > This is still a bit up in the air (both CLUE and the > show organizers are willing to consider this idea, but > ... don't hold your breath...). > Actually, you can let your breaths out :-) According to a conversation from this morning, a request for CLUE and TLUG to have adjacent spaces appears to have no objection from show organizers, so there is indeed an opportunity to have a shared 10'x20' space. We may yet have room for Linuxcaffe's Tuxilla. It was also confirmed this morning that Maddog Hall will be in Toronto again this year, which means there will also be a Linux International booth. Whether this results in a possibility for a combined TLUG/CLUE/LI booth of 10x30 is pending on our talking to Maddog. > - Evan is involved in helping set-up a VOIP program track for the show (thus I assume the Asterisk people and their involvement). > True -- Simon Ditner of TAUG is heavily involved as well. (While we're at it, if anyone here is aware of someone who has something to contribute on the topic of open source telephony (Asterisk, FOSS skype alternatives, etc.), please let me know. > - An idea was kicked around about possibly taking last year's NewTLUG presentation and recycling it for this year's show as part of the (paid) program track... > For those that may not recall, that talk was on "What is a Linux distribution and how are the various ones different?") > I would be nervous about doing in-booth presentations with anything less than a 20' x 20' booth. Agreed, as Colin suggests this is highly unlikely. Also, don't forget that -- even if the space is available -- the show floor is very noisy; a PA system that would allow the speaker to be heard, and the chairs for the audience, don't come free. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 20:59:29 2007 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 15:59:29 -0500 Subject: Jan 23rd NewTLUG meeting: Tcl/Tk, USB interface, ports and Command Line 101 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1169585970.3145.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> I may have missed the announcement but what room and building is this in tonight? Jim > > This month's NewTLUG meeting will be held > Tues Jan 23rd, at Seneca College on the YorkU campus. > > > Date: Tues Jan 23 > Time: 7 - 10pm > > Topics: 1) a NewTLUG version of a previous TLUG talk by Peter > Hiscocks re USB port interface and Tcl/Tk programming. > Also, some history and evolution of serial and parallel > ports plus the advantages and challenges of using USB > ...see Peter's outline below > > 2) Command Line 101: a look at some basic tricks for moving > around between Linux directories and executing commands > with a minimum of keystrokes. > > Presenter: Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited > Peter recently retired from a lengthy career of lecturing > and operating labs in Electrical Engineering at Ryerson > University to pursue the Open Instrumentation Project. He > has extensive experience in Engineering Education and > consulting in electronic circuit design. > > Location: Room and building TBA - Seneca at York > > http://www.yorku.ca/web/futurestudents/map/KeeleMasterMap.pdf > The Seneca at York Campus, which is physically located in the > south east part of York University, at Keele/Steeles. > (note that this room is different from the usual one) > > Directions: For detailed directions and info on public transit, please > see: > http://cs.senecac.on.ca/~praveen.mitera/seneca-directions.html > > Parking: Paid parking is available on campus (about: $8). > Building #84 on the map above is a close-by parking > garage. - note #87 the parking lot is no longer for > visitors so PLEASE use the parking garage (#84) > > Outline: > > The Open Instrumentation Project (OIP) makes low cost measurement > equipment -- hardware and Open Source Software -- available to engineers, > hobbiests and students. > > First, we describe programming in the Tcl/Tk language with special > emphasis on rapid creation of a graphical user interface. We show it has > been used in the OIP, and how its capabilities can be applied to other > instrument and control projects. > > We then provide some background on methods of interfacing to the PC and > the functions of the legacy serial, printer and bus ports. The USB port is > rapidly replacing these methods, and so we explain the advantages and > challenges of using USB. We describe the hardware and software of a simple > approach to the USB interface, and provide pointers to some USB debugging > tools. This will be of interest to anyone building hardware that talks to a > the USB interface. > > We will demonstrate Tcl/Tk and the USB interface with a 20MSample/second > dual channel oscilloscope, and a 100kHz arbitrary waveform generator. We > will show how these instruments can be operated together by an open-source > program to form a vector network analyser. > > As our contribution to Command Line 101, we'll open with some basic tricks > for moving around between Linux directories and executing commands with a > minimum of keystrokes. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Herb Richter > Richter Equipment, Toronto, Ontario > http://PartsAndService.com > http://PartsAndService.ca > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 21:11:12 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:11:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: Jan 23rd NewTLUG meeting: Tcl/Tk, USB interface, ports and Command Line 101 In-Reply-To: <1169585970.3145.28.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1169585970.3145.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <608658.19237.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- jim ruxton wrote: > I may have missed the announcement but what room and > building is this in > tonight? > Jim Have a look at : http://gtalug.org/wiki/NewTlug_Meetings:2007-01-23 namely: Location: Seneca College on the YorkU campus in room S2168 (SEQ building) http://www.yorku.ca/web/futurestudents/map/KeeleMasterMap.pdf The Seneca at York Campus, which is physically located in the south east part of York University, at Keele/Steeles. Colin McGregor > > > > This month's NewTLUG meeting will be held > > Tues Jan 23rd, at Seneca College on the YorkU > campus. > > > > > > Date: Tues Jan 23 > > Time: 7 - 10pm > > > > Topics: 1) a NewTLUG version of a previous TLUG > talk by Peter > > Hiscocks re USB port interface and Tcl/Tk > programming. > > Also, some history and evolution of serial and > parallel > > ports plus the advantages and challenges of > using USB > > ...see Peter's outline below > > > > 2) Command Line 101: a look at some basic tricks > for moving > > around between Linux directories and executing > commands > > with a minimum of keystrokes. > > > > Presenter: Peter Hiscocks > > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited > > Peter recently retired from a lengthy career of > lecturing > > and operating labs in Electrical Engineering at > Ryerson > > University to pursue the Open Instrumentation > Project. He > > has extensive experience in Engineering > Education and > > consulting in electronic circuit design. > > > > Location: Room and building TBA - > Seneca at York > > > > > http://www.yorku.ca/web/futurestudents/map/KeeleMasterMap.pdf > > The Seneca at York Campus, which is physically > located in the > > south east part of York University, at > Keele/Steeles. > > (note that this room is different from the usual > one) > > > > Directions: For detailed directions and info on > public transit, please > > see: > > > http://cs.senecac.on.ca/~praveen.mitera/seneca-directions.html > > > > Parking: Paid parking is available on > campus (about: $8). > > Building #84 on the map above is a close-by > parking > > garage. - note #87 the parking lot is no longer > for > > visitors so PLEASE use the parking garage (#84) > > > > Outline: > > > > The Open Instrumentation Project (OIP) makes low > cost measurement > > equipment -- hardware and Open Source Software -- > available to engineers, > > hobbiests and students. > > > > First, we describe programming in the Tcl/Tk > language with special > > emphasis on rapid creation of a graphical user > interface. We show it has > > been used in the OIP, and how its capabilities can > be applied to other > > instrument and control projects. > > > > We then provide some background on methods of > interfacing to the PC and > > the functions of the legacy serial, printer and > bus ports. The USB port is > > rapidly replacing these methods, and so we explain > the advantages and > > challenges of using USB. We describe the hardware > and software of a simple > > approach to the USB interface, and provide > pointers to some USB debugging > > tools. This will be of interest to anyone building > hardware that talks to a > > the USB interface. > > > > We will demonstrate Tcl/Tk and the USB interface > with a 20MSample/second > > dual channel oscilloscope, and a 100kHz arbitrary > waveform generator. We > > will show how these instruments can be operated > together by an open-source > > program to form a vector network analyser. > > > > As our contribution to Command Line 101, we'll > open with some basic tricks > > for moving around between Linux directories and > executing commands with a > > minimum of keystrokes. > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Herb Richter > > Richter Equipment, Toronto, Ontario > > http://PartsAndService.com > > http://PartsAndService.ca > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 21:30:10 2007 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:30:10 -0500 Subject: Stress Testing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070123213010.GA26007@wp.magstar.net> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 12:22:33PM -0500, Randy Jonasz wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I've been given a server at work to "stress test" the hardware. The > server will be used as a java server, running tomcat. Any suggestions > for software to use? I'm currently running memtest86. while 1 ; do make kernel badblocks -svw partition find / ... done :-) -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 21:34:05 2007 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:34:05 -0500 Subject: Jan 23rd NewTLUG meeting: Tcl/Tk, USB interface, ports and Command Line 101 In-Reply-To: <608658.19237.qm-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <608658.19237.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1169588045.3154.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Thanks Colin. Jim > --- jim ruxton wrote: > > I may have missed the announcement but what room and > > building is this in > > tonight? > > Jim > > Have a look at : > > http://gtalug.org/wiki/NewTlug_Meetings:2007-01-23 > > namely: > > Location: > > Seneca College on the YorkU campus in room S2168 (SEQ > building) > http://www.yorku.ca/web/futurestudents/map/KeeleMasterMap.pdf > The Seneca at York Campus, which is physically located in > the south east part of York University, at > Keele/Steeles. > > Colin McGregor > > > > > > > This month's NewTLUG meeting will be held > > > Tues Jan 23rd, at Seneca College on the YorkU > > campus. > > > > > > > > > Date: Tues Jan 23 > > > Time: 7 - 10pm > > > > > > Topics: 1) a NewTLUG version of a previous TLUG > > talk by Peter > > > Hiscocks re USB port interface and Tcl/Tk > > programming. > > > Also, some history and evolution of serial and > > parallel > > > ports plus the advantages and challenges of > > using USB > > > ...see Peter's outline below > > > > > > 2) Command Line 101: a look at some basic tricks > > for moving > > > around between Linux directories and executing > > commands > > > with a minimum of keystrokes. > > > > > > Presenter: Peter Hiscocks > > > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited > > > Peter recently retired from a lengthy career of > > lecturing > > > and operating labs in Electrical Engineering at > > Ryerson > > > University to pursue the Open Instrumentation > > Project. He > > > has extensive experience in Engineering > > Education and > > > consulting in electronic circuit design. > > > > > > Location: Room and building TBA - > > Seneca at York > > > > > > > > > http://www.yorku.ca/web/futurestudents/map/KeeleMasterMap.pdf > > > The Seneca at York Campus, which is physically > > located in the > > > south east part of York University, at > > Keele/Steeles. > > > (note that this room is different from the usual > > one) > > > > > > Directions: For detailed directions and info on > > public transit, please > > > see: > > > > > > http://cs.senecac.on.ca/~praveen.mitera/seneca-directions.html > > > > > > Parking: Paid parking is available on > > campus (about: $8). > > > Building #84 on the map above is a close-by > > parking > > > garage. - note #87 the parking lot is no longer > > for > > > visitors so PLEASE use the parking garage (#84) > > > > > > Outline: > > > > > > The Open Instrumentation Project (OIP) makes low > > cost measurement > > > equipment -- hardware and Open Source Software -- > > available to engineers, > > > hobbiests and students. > > > > > > First, we describe programming in the Tcl/Tk > > language with special > > > emphasis on rapid creation of a graphical user > > interface. We show it has > > > been used in the OIP, and how its capabilities can > > be applied to other > > > instrument and control projects. > > > > > > We then provide some background on methods of > > interfacing to the PC and > > > the functions of the legacy serial, printer and > > bus ports. The USB port is > > > rapidly replacing these methods, and so we explain > > the advantages and > > > challenges of using USB. We describe the hardware > > and software of a simple > > > approach to the USB interface, and provide > > pointers to some USB debugging > > > tools. This will be of interest to anyone building > > hardware that talks to a > > > the USB interface. > > > > > > We will demonstrate Tcl/Tk and the USB interface > > with a 20MSample/second > > > dual channel oscilloscope, and a 100kHz arbitrary > > waveform generator. We > > > will show how these instruments can be operated > > together by an open-source > > > program to form a vector network analyser. > > > > > > As our contribution to Command Line 101, we'll > > open with some basic tricks > > > for moving around between Linux directories and > > executing commands with a > > > minimum of keystrokes. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Herb Richter > > > Richter Equipment, Toronto, Ontario > > > http://PartsAndService.com > > > http://PartsAndService.ca > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > > http://gtalug.org/ > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > > below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > > http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > > below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 21:45:31 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 23 Jan 2007 16:45:31 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <45B62E59.8000709-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B58D73.40602@ve3syb.ca> <45B625CA.3050004@telly.org> <45B62E59.8000709@rogers.com> Message-ID: James Knott writes: > Bell will now supply a modem/router/firewall combo, but that's useless for > my work, which requires only a modem. I don't get this at all. First of all, the Rogers "modem" is not a modem at all. It's a bridge. Second, unless your work involves snooping on your neighbours, I don't see how the network topology would affect you. At then end of the day, whether you're using PPPoE (Bell DSL) or plain Ethernet (Rogers), you have a publicly accessible IP, a suitable netmask (for the Internet side of your connection), and a default route (gateway) to the rest of the Internet. IP is IP is IP. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 21:48:45 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:48:45 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B58D73.40602@ve3syb.ca> <45B625CA.3050004@telly.org> <45B62E59.8000709@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45B682BD.90008@rogers.com> Tim Writer wrote: > James Knott writes: > > >> Bell will now supply a modem/router/firewall combo, but that's useless for >> my work, which requires only a modem. >> > > I don't get this at all. > > First of all, the Rogers "modem" is not a modem at all. It's a bridge. > It's a modem in that it converts ethernet signals to something usable on the cable network. > Second, unless your work involves snooping on your neighbours, I don't see > how the network topology would affect you. At then end of the day, whether > you're using PPPoE (Bell DSL) or plain Ethernet (Rogers), you have a > publicly accessible IP, a suitable netmask (for the Internet side of your > connection), and a default route (gateway) to the rest of the Internet. IP > is IP is IP. > > The modem/firewall/router combo isn't suitable, as the device I'm connecting has it's own firewall and address translation. It is also used for VoIP and must have a "real" IP address, not the RFC 1918 address provided by the modem/firewall/router box. Also, with ADSL, you don't see any traffic from your neighbours. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Eric.Malenfant-xNZwKgViW5gAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 23 22:46:34 2007 From: Eric.Malenfant-xNZwKgViW5gAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Eric.Malenfant-xNZwKgViW5gAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:46:34 -0600 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <20070123174503.GA12949-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B56AED.1070703@rogers.com> <87y7nuiimt.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> <20070123154247.GC7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070123172545.GD20380@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070123122617.3a442031@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20070123174503.GA12949@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <98A4A2882BDF3249B4A3650DA062799F06266390@daebe100.NOE.Nokia.com> I've been with Teksavvy since the istop disaster a few years ago, because of the same reasons I went with Istop. They do understand that there are other OS's out there, and if you ask, they will do a reverse-DNS mapping for you. I have been 1 happy camper since I moved to them, with NO outage whatsoever since I have been with them. 4$/mo for a static IP + reverse DNS so I can run my own mail server - is totally worth it. Plug it into a linux box, fire up rp-pppoe, and iptables firewall... And your laughing. - Eric -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of ext William O'Higgins Witteman Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 12:45 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Rogers high-speed internet On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 12:26:17PM -0500, JoeHill wrote: >> > But you do have to share the ISP and the rest of the internet with them. >> > Big freaking deal. That claim is one of the lamest marketing scams >> > the DSL people have come up with. DSL is very nice, and has the >> > advantage of not having to deal with rogers, but the sharing with >> > your neighbours thing is just a load of crap. Some cable areas may >> > be badly designed The key is that there is no requirement for Rogers to allow resellers, so you have to deal with Rogers. This is a dealbreaker. I always get 500kb/s, I have a static IP, my tech support (called four times in two years) knows Linux, and I can run whatever servers I want, and it costs $34 per month, tax in, total. I'm with Teksavvy. >Looking at Teksavvy right now, just trying to figure out if the Alcatel >Speed Touch modem I have is the right one, really cannot afford a new >one right now (this has always been the breaking point for me, is >having to buy/rent a new modem). Call them - they'll know and they'll actually tell you. I think it will be fine. With an ISP you want two things in terms of service (and in Terms of Service, when it comes to that): 1. tech support with a clue and reasonable policies 2. clout when it comes to dealing with the underlying carrier - a reseller's business is much more valuable to BellNexxia than your individual business is to any corporate entity. -- yours, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 00:48:56 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 19:48:56 -0500 Subject: MythTv - the mythtv user In-Reply-To: References: <200701211520.35978.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <200701231948.57238.mervc@eol.ca> On Monday 22 January 2007 12:48, Michael MacLeod wrote: > I imagine certain maintainence scripts are run as the mythtv user (think > mtd and so forth), and the backend records the shows as the mythtv user I > believe (or at least the mythtv user seems to own everything in > /media/mythtv/recordings (or where ever you put it)). I certainly wouldn't > delete it, as it might be necessary for some of these tasks. > Well looks like didn't quite supply enough info. I have one computer as a server in a remote part of the basement. That machine only has the mythtv user. In fact I usually log-in from another machine to 'mythtv@'server' and don't do any keyboard work now at the server. My front ends are in a couple of spots around the house and on them I can watch tv, order recordings, view recordings, delete recordings and the few things that are set up, all seem to work ok. These front end machines are where the mythtv users were created that have yet to be used. I am guessing that most people use a combo front-end/back-end install, so logging on as mythtv to watch tv might be best. However, have you thought of running mythfrontend from your own desktop? I suspect that no one has to log on as the mythtv user to watch telly. You will want the mythtv user for backend admin work I'd guess. So far, looks like any one of your users could delete the pool recordings, but isn't that a danger you have now? Of course this one week expert still has a lot to learn. So I won't delete the mythtv user accounts for a while yet. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 01:32:19 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 20:32:19 -0500 Subject: Where's the LVM utils? ( Debian - Ubuntu ) In-Reply-To: <200701211844.13792.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200701211417.20015.mervc@eol.ca> <200701211844.13792.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <200701232032.19397.mervc@eol.ca> On Sunday 21 January 2007 18:44, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Sunday 21 January 2007 14:17, Merv Curley wrote: > > Next I tried a Cmd line install of Ubuntu, at least I got a system but > > not quite what I wanted. ?It insisted that I couldn't create just a > > primary for /boot and the rest for LVM. I had to also create a primary > > for / [root partition] and then I could use the rest for LVM. In here it > > created a swap partition. ?The install proceded and I now have a bootable > > drive. > > I do recall a bug where the Debian installer would "unselect" partitions > that had been set up prior to setting up LVM ... > Well I guess that you read that my problems were with the partitioner. After I got everything working, I managed to install something for Mythtv that made the drive unbootable. Now I have to start all over, however it probably isn't such a bad thing to do a couple of times. Having read all the pros and cons of where to put /, has shown me that I should be prepared to use a rescue disk. But I hope it doesn't come to that cuz it will involve more hand wringing and annoying messages to the list... Lennart, I don't like using Ubuntu, but there is a very good howto for Ubuntu Mythtv installs and not for Debian. So using sudo is getting more automatic. Since I am not installing a desktop, Gnome doesn't come into focus. Thanks everyone for the enlightenment. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 01:46:40 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 20:46:40 -0500 Subject: Stress Testing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200701232046.40238.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Monday 22 January 2007 12:22, Randy Jonasz wrote: > I've been given a server at work to "stress test" the hardware. ?The > server will be used as a java server, running tomcat. ?Any suggestions > for software to use? ?I'm currently running memtest86. One thing I always do as a rule these days when I receive new hardware is stress test the disk subsystem. A simple run with bonnie++ has yieled "funny" results for me in the past ... lets just say that some of those fancy-schmancy raid controllers don't live up to their billing ;-) Stresslinux.org looks like an easy way to get bonnie++ and more (someone else mentioned it), I'll definitely be checking that out. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 02:04:40 2007 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 21:04:40 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <45B62E59.8000709-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B58D73.40602@ve3syb.ca> <45B625CA.3050004@telly.org> <45B62E59.8000709@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45B6BEB8.3040706@yahoo.ca> James Knott wrote: > Bell will now supply a modem/router/firewall combo, but that's useless > for my work, which requires only a modem. Well just use it for a modem then ... My experiences have been a little different. Two years ago I lived in Scarborough and used Cable Internet. It was atrocious, and even though I was on high speed, (as opposed to Ultra), I achieved a maximum 70 kbps usually averaging 40 kbps. This was in 3 different locations in Scarborough. Since I"ve moved to downtown Toronto, DSL from Sympatico, has been reliable -- More so than Cable ever was for me. I'm getting faster speed as well,(a steady average of 350 kbps, (sometimes higher) on most of my surfing/downloads. For $35/month (contract) I get better service, faster throughput, and a great little wireless/conventional router/switch/modem, that works better than my Linksys, ever did. YMMV __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 02:42:34 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 23 Jan 2007 21:42:34 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <45B682BD.90008-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B58D73.40602@ve3syb.ca> <45B625CA.3050004@telly.org> <45B62E59.8000709@rogers.com> <45B682BD.90008@rogers.com> Message-ID: James Knott writes: > Tim Writer wrote: > > James Knott writes: > > > > > > >> Bell will now supply a modem/router/firewall combo, but that's useless for > >> my work, which requires only a modem. > >> > > > > > I don't get this at all. > > > > First of all, the Rogers "modem" is not a modem at all. It's a bridge. > > > It's a modem in that it converts ethernet signals to something usable on > the cable network. I think we're both right. A cable modem includes both layer 1 (the physical layer) and layer 2 (the data link layer) of the OSI model. The physical layer of DOCSIS cable modems uses QAM (quadrature amplitude modulation) to convert (modulate/demodulate, hence "modem") between digital data and analog signals. The data link layer or MAC uses TDMA or S-CDMA to mediate access to the physical layer and convert between raw digital data to Ethernet frames. In contrast, a traditional analog modem provides only layer 1 and PPP is used for layer 2. Without PPP, there are no frames (packets), just a stream of bytes. To users, a neighbourhood of cable modems is much like a LAN, as if the cable modems make up one big hub into which everyone is plugged. I think it's useful to think of it as a bridge because (to the end user) it acts like a bridge. I believe cable companies chose to call it a modem because everyone "knows" what a modem is. > > Second, unless your work involves snooping on your neighbours, I don't see > > how the network topology would affect you. At then end of the day, whether > > you're using PPPoE (Bell DSL) or plain Ethernet (Rogers), you have a > > publicly accessible IP, a suitable netmask (for the Internet side of your > > connection), and a default route (gateway) to the rest of the Internet. IP > > is IP is IP. > > > > > > The modem/firewall/router combo isn't suitable, as the device I'm > connecting has it's own firewall and address translation. It is also used > for VoIP and must have a "real" IP address, not the RFC 1918 address > provided by the modem/firewall/router box. We have exactly that setup in our office: Bell DSL service with a combined DSL modem/router. As a result, we have two levels of NAT, one on the Bell DSL modem/router and one on our firewall but it makes no difference. Nobody ever sees the addresses on the (two node) network connecting the inside of the Bell DSL router to the outside of our firewall. This setup is very similar to a traditional T1 where the ISP provides a router. The main difference is their router doesn't usually do NAT and they configure it to route a (small) public subet so you can use public IPs on your firewall. I preferred the old DSL setup, with a separate DSL modem and PPPoE on the firewall because there was no need for two levels of NAT but I guess Bell figured most people want a router. > Also, with ADSL, you don't see any traffic from your neighbours. Sure, which is why I said you must be snooping on your neighbours. :-) -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 02:50:30 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 23 Jan 2007 21:50:30 -0500 Subject: MythTv - the mythtv user In-Reply-To: <200701231948.57238.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701211520.35978.mervc@eol.ca> <200701231948.57238.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: Merv Curley writes: > On Monday 22 January 2007 12:48, Michael MacLeod wrote: > > I imagine certain maintainence scripts are run as the mythtv user (think > > mtd and so forth), and the backend records the shows as the mythtv user I > > believe (or at least the mythtv user seems to own everything in > > /media/mythtv/recordings (or where ever you put it)). I certainly wouldn't > > delete it, as it might be necessary for some of these tasks. > > > Well looks like didn't quite supply enough info. I have one computer as a > server in a remote part of the basement. That machine only has the mythtv > user. In fact I usually log-in from another machine to 'mythtv@'server' and > don't do any keyboard work now at the server. My front ends are in a couple > of spots around the house and on them I can watch tv, order recordings, view > recordings, delete recordings and the few things that are set up, all seem to > work ok. > > These front end machines are where the mythtv users were created that have yet > to be used. > > I am guessing that most people use a combo front-end/back-end install, so > logging on as mythtv to watch tv might be best. However, have you thought > of running mythfrontend from your own desktop? Yes, although I haven't used it in a while. > I suspect that no one has to log on as the mythtv user to watch telly. Correct, you can definitely the mythfrontend as an ordinary desktop user. You do, however, have to setup your mythtv credentials correctly on desktop and on the backend, IIRC. I believe the packages have already done this for you for the mythtv user so it's easier to use it, esp. if your planning to watch TV full screen. If you want TV running in a window while doing other work, you'll want to set it up for yourself. I don't remember how to do this off the top of my head but I believe it's documented at mythtv.org. > You will want the mythtv user for backend admin work I'd guess. So far, > looks like any one of your users could delete the pool recordings, but > isn't that a danger you have now? I think so but I'm not certain. Perhaps someone else can weigh in. > Of course this one week expert still has a lot to learn. So I won't > delete the mythtv user accounts for a while yet. If you're concerned about security issues or something, you could just disable the mythtv account. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 03:18:31 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:18:31 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <45B6BEB8.3040706-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B58D73.40602@ve3syb.ca> <45B625CA.3050004@telly.org> <45B62E59.8000709@rogers.com> <45B6BEB8.3040706@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <45B6D007.1020603@rogers.com> Stephen Allen wrote: > James Knott wrote: > > >> Bell will now supply a modem/router/firewall combo, but that's useless >> for my work, which requires only a modem. >> > > Well just use it for a modem then ... > It wouldn't work that way. There was no way to bypass the firewall/router function. > My experiences have been a little different. > > Two years ago I lived in Scarborough and used Cable Internet. It was > atrocious, and even though I was on high speed, (as opposed to Ultra), I > achieved a maximum 70 kbps usually averaging 40 kbps. This was in 3 > different locations in Scarborough. > IIRC, there used to be a different provider (Shaw?) in parts of Scarborough, that had poor service compared to Rogers. > Since I"ve moved to downtown Toronto, DSL from Sympatico, has been > reliable -- More so than Cable ever was for me. I'm getting faster speed > as well,(a steady average of 350 kbps, (sometimes higher) on most of my > surfing/downloads. > > For $35/month (contract) I get better service, faster throughput, and a > great little wireless/conventional router/switch/modem, that works > better than my Linksys, ever did. > I've seen close to the rated 6 Mb/s on some downloads. Rogers has been very reliable for me, with only a few brief problems over the 7 years I've been using it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 03:26:46 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:26:46 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B58D73.40602@ve3syb.ca> <45B625CA.3050004@telly.org> <45B62E59.8000709@rogers.com> <45B682BD.90008@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45B6D1F6.1080601@rogers.com> Tim Writer wrote: > James Knott writes: > > >> Tim Writer wrote: >> >>> James Knott writes: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Bell will now supply a modem/router/firewall combo, but that's useless for >>>> my work, which requires only a modem. >>>> >>>> >>> I don't get this at all. >>> >>> First of all, the Rogers "modem" is not a modem at all. It's a bridge. >>> >> It's a modem in that it converts ethernet signals to something usable on >> the cable network. >> > > I think we're both right. > > A cable modem includes both layer 1 (the physical layer) and layer 2 (the > data link layer) of the OSI model. The physical layer of DOCSIS cable > modems uses QAM (quadrature amplitude modulation) to convert > (modulate/demodulate, hence "modem") between digital data and analog > signals. The data link layer or MAC uses TDMA or S-CDMA to mediate access > to the physical layer and convert between raw digital data to Ethernet > frames. > > In contrast, a traditional analog modem provides only layer 1 and PPP is > used for layer 2. Without PPP, there are no frames (packets), just a stream > of bytes. > > To users, a neighbourhood of cable modems is much like a LAN, as if the > cable modems make up one big hub into which everyone is plugged. I think > it's useful to think of it as a bridge because (to the end user) it acts > like a bridge. I believe cable companies chose to call it a modem because > everyone "knows" what a modem is. > A lot of people seem to think everyone in the neighbourhood is on one big lan. This hasn't been the case for years, if at all. The up and down paths are on separate frequencies back to the head end. This means that you can only see the neighbours the same way as you would any one else on the internet, that is via IP. Take a look at the DOCSIS specs to see why this is. If everyone on cable is one one big lan, then so is everyone on ADSL, for the same reason, that is everyone is a "neighbour" back at the head end or CO, but not before. > >>> Second, unless your work involves snooping on your neighbours, I don't see >>> how the network topology would affect you. At then end of the day, whether >>> you're using PPPoE (Bell DSL) or plain Ethernet (Rogers), you have a >>> publicly accessible IP, a suitable netmask (for the Internet side of your >>> connection), and a default route (gateway) to the rest of the Internet. IP >>> is IP is IP. >>> >>> >>> >> The modem/firewall/router combo isn't suitable, as the device I'm >> connecting has it's own firewall and address translation. It is also used >> for VoIP and must have a "real" IP address, not the RFC 1918 address >> provided by the modem/firewall/router box. >> > > We have exactly that setup in our office: Bell DSL service with a combined > DSL modem/router. As a result, we have two levels of NAT, one on the Bell > DSL modem/router and one on our firewall but it makes no difference. Nobody > ever sees the addresses on the (two node) network connecting the inside of > the Bell DSL router to the outside of our firewall. > This would mean providing translation for one TCP and up to 24 UDP ports per device. The firewalls don't provide that sort of filtering very easily. > This setup is very similar to a traditional T1 where the ISP provides a > router. The main difference is their router doesn't usually do NAT and they > configure it to route a (small) public subet so you can use public IPs on > your firewall. > > I preferred the old DSL setup, with a separate DSL modem and PPPoE on the > firewall because there was no need for two levels of NAT but I guess Bell > figured most people want a router. > > >> Also, with ADSL, you don't see any traffic from your neighbours. >> > > Sure, which is why I said you must be snooping on your neighbours. :-) > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 05:14:09 2007 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 00:14:09 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B58D73.40602@ve3syb.ca> <45B625CA.3050004@telly.org> <45B62E59.8000709@rogers.com> <45B682BD.90008@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 23 Jan 2007 21:42:34 -0500, Tim Writer wrote: > > James Knott writes: > > > Tim Writer wrote: > > > James Knott writes: > > >> Bell will now supply a modem/router/firewall combo, but that's > useless for > > >> my work, which requires only a modem. > > > The modem/firewall/router combo isn't suitable, as the device I'm > > connecting has it's own firewall and address translation. It is also > used > > for VoIP and must have a "real" IP address, not the RFC 1918 address > > provided by the modem/firewall/router box. > > We have exactly that setup in our office: Bell DSL service with a combined > DSL modem/router. As a result, we have two levels of NAT, one on the Bell > DSL modem/router and one on our firewall but it makes no difference. > Nobody > ever sees the addresses on the (two node) network connecting the inside of > the Bell DSL router to the outside of our firewall. > > This setup is very similar to a traditional T1 where the ISP provides a > router. The main difference is their router doesn't usually do NAT and > they > configure it to route a (small) public subet so you can use public IPs on > your firewall. > > I preferred the old DSL setup, with a separate DSL modem and PPPoE on the > firewall because there was no need for two levels of NAT but I guess Bell > figured most people want a router. > > > Also, with ADSL, you don't see any traffic from your neighbours. > > Sure, which is why I said you must be snooping on your neighbours. :-) > > -- > tim writer starnix inc. > 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada > http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products I have a Siemens Speedstream 6520 from Bell. It has four ethernet ports and wireless capability. If you connect your router to port 4, you can create a pppoe connection through the modem (no router mode). In fact, I have mine running the factory default settings, and haven't done the wizard in the modem, so it doesn't have my username and password in the config. When run like this, it'll let me make a pppoe connection through any of the four ports. In fact, I can run two seperate pppoe connections to two different computers at the same time. As long as the modem never recieves a dhcp discover packet, router mode is never enabled. Wireless clearly doesn't work, but since I have my own wireless router, I don't need to use Bell's mickey mouse wireless. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 05:44:05 2007 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 00:44:05 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <45B6D007.1020603-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B58D73.40602@ve3syb.ca> <45B625CA.3050004@telly.org> <45B62E59.8000709@rogers.com> <45B6BEB8.3040706@yahoo.ca> <45B6D007.1020603@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45B6F225.80502@yahoo.ca> James Knott wrote: > Stephen Allen wrote: >> Well just use it for a modem then ... >> > > It wouldn't work that way. There was no way to bypass the > firewall/router function. OK I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. :) >> My experiences have been a little different. >> >> Two years ago I lived in Scarborough and used Cable Internet. It was >> atrocious, and even though I was on high speed, (as opposed to Ultra), I >> achieved a maximum 70 kbps usually averaging 40 kbps. This was in 3 >> different locations in Scarborough. >> > IIRC, there used to be a different provider (Shaw?) in parts of > Scarborough, that had poor service compared to Rogers. At one time there was both, and both were equally terrible in my experience. I believe up in the 'burbs, Cable Internet is more common, whereas DSL is common downtown. I guess with the family concentration in the burbs, the children are downloading via P2P 24/7, and saturating the local loops. >> Since I"ve moved to downtown Toronto, DSL from Sympatico, has been >> reliable -- More so than Cable ever was for me. I'm getting faster speed >> as well,(a steady average of 350 kbps, (sometimes higher) on most of my >> surfing/downloads. >> >> For $35/month (contract) I get better service, faster throughput, and a >> great little wireless/conventional router/switch/modem, that works >> better than my Linksys, ever did. >> > > I've seen close to the rated 6 Mb/s on some downloads. Rogers has been > very reliable for me, with only a few brief problems over the 7 years > I've been using it. Well, I'm sorry to say that hasn't been my experience with Cable Internet in Scarborough. A friend of mine, (also downtown) has Rogers, and he's not pleased with it, since he's seen my throughput and price/month. Incidentally what area of town are you in? That might make a tremendous difference in terms of performance. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 12:23:46 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 07:23:46 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <45B6F225.80502-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B58D73.40602@ve3syb.ca> <45B625CA.3050004@telly.org> <45B62E59.8000709@rogers.com> <45B6BEB8.3040706@yahoo.ca> <45B6D007.1020603@rogers.com> <45B6F225.80502@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <45B74FD2.4050302@rogers.com> Stephen Allen wrote: >> >> IIRC, there used to be a different provider (Shaw?) in parts of >> Scarborough, that had poor service compared to Rogers. >> > > At one time there was both, and both were equally terrible in my > experience. > They wouldn't be in the same area at the same time. > > ncidentally what area of town are you in? That might make a tremendous > difference in terms of performance. I'm in Mississauga. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 13:59:30 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 08:59:30 -0500 Subject: Problem postscript files Message-ID: <20070124135930.GB9411@watson-wilson.ca> I've been given some files from a third party. They claim that these files are postscript files. The will print in Windows using the CLI 'print' command. They will not print to any postscript printers on a Linux server. The Linux 'file' command reports that the files are postscript. Is this some sort of 'embrace and extend' example? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 11 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From brad-+D6Uf2+aGuUGMZLEs5zN4UEOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 14:26:44 2007 From: brad-+D6Uf2+aGuUGMZLEs5zN4UEOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (Brad Harrison) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:26:44 -0500 Subject: Lun Question Message-ID: <200701240926.44376.brad@harrisonpowered.com> Hi Group, A quick question about LUNs. I have two systems with 50 shared LUNs in between them. I have a big list of raw devices already on the servers with no indication of the luns they are pointing to. I need to set the permissions/ownership of the devices and therefore I need to figure out which raw device is pointing to which lun. Of course I can override it thru /etc/raw but that wouldn?t be a clean solution. Any help would be greatly appreciated Thanks -- Brad Harrison www.harrisonpowered.com Mississauga, Ontario, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 14:32:05 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:32:05 -0500 Subject: Problem postscript files In-Reply-To: <20070124135930.GB9411-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070124135930.GB9411@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: What does Adobe Acrobat say when you try to open the files? On 1/24/07, Neil Watson wrote: > > I've been given some files from a third party. They claim that these > files are postscript files. The will print in Windows using the CLI > 'print' command. They will not print to any postscript printers on a > Linux server. The Linux 'file' command reports that the files are > postscript. Is this some sort of 'embrace and extend' example? > > -- > Neil Watson | Debian Linux > System Administrator | Uptime 11 days > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 14:36:19 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:36:19 -0500 Subject: Problem postscript files In-Reply-To: References: <20070124135930.GB9411@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070124143619.GC9411@watson-wilson.ca> On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 09:32:05AM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote: > What does Adobe Acrobat say when you try to open the files? Alas, I do not have Acrobat :( -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 11 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 14:58:18 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:58:18 -0500 Subject: Problem postscript files In-Reply-To: <20070124143619.GC9411-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070124135930.GB9411@watson-wilson.ca> <20070124143619.GC9411@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: No Acrobat? How about ggv or xpdf? Do you have any other tool that can read PostScript files? On 1/24/07, Neil Watson wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 09:32:05AM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote: > > What does Adobe Acrobat say when you try to open the files? > > Alas, I do not have Acrobat :( > > -- > Neil Watson | Debian Linux > System Administrator | Uptime 11 days > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 15:15:14 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:15:14 -0500 Subject: Where's the LVM utils? ( Debian - Ubuntu ) In-Reply-To: <200701232032.19397.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200701211417.20015.mervc@eol.ca> <200701211844.13792.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200701232032.19397.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20070124151514.GE7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 08:32:19PM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > Well I guess that you read that my problems were with the partitioner. After > I got everything working, I managed to install something for Mythtv that made > the drive unbootable. Now I have to start all over, however it probably isn't > such a bad thing to do a couple of times. > > Having read all the pros and cons of where to put /, has shown me that I > should be prepared to use a rescue disk. But I hope it doesn't come to that > cuz it will involve more hand wringing and annoying messages to the list... > > Lennart, I don't like using Ubuntu, but there is a very good howto for Ubuntu > Mythtv installs and not for Debian. So using sudo is getting more automatic. > Since I am not installing a desktop, Gnome doesn't come into focus. > > Thanks everyone for the enlightenment. Installing debian is simple. Installing the mythtv packages is simple. After that it is just mythtv configuration and has little to do with the distribution (ok you have to install the ivtv-source package and run 'm-a -t a-i ivtv' to build the drivers for the PVR cards too). For now I for sure will be sticking with the real thing (debian that is). I didn't even look for a howto when installing mythtv. It is really amazingly easy (contrary to what lots of documents claim, which seem to think all other PVR type software is much easier, although of course those all run on windows and hence the drivers come with windows installers). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 15:17:17 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:17:17 -0500 Subject: Problem postscript files In-Reply-To: <20070124135930.GB9411-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070124135930.GB9411@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070124151717.GF7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 08:59:30AM -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > I've been given some files from a third party. They claim that these > files are postscript files. The will print in Windows using the CLI > 'print' command. They will not print to any postscript printers on a > Linux server. The Linux 'file' command reports that the files are > postscript. Is this some sort of 'embrace and extend' example? They are probably printed to file using the drivers for a specific postscript printer. Will gv show them? Or are you saying they will print from windows using 'print' but not on linux to the exact same postscript printers? What postscript printers do you use? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 15:39:41 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:39:41 -0500 Subject: Problem postscript files In-Reply-To: <20070124135930.GB9411-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070124135930.GB9411@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420701240739w7fbe479n910d4b3cf0ba6e79@mail.gmail.com> I've had problems with Postscript files before (though not the same problems you're having) that I was able to fix by running the file through ps2ps. On my system, ps2ps is provided by the ghostscript package. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 15:52:01 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:52:01 -0500 Subject: Problem postscript files In-Reply-To: <20070124143619.GC9411-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070124135930.GB9411@watson-wilson.ca> <20070124143619.GC9411@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <45B780A1.10705@rogers.com> Neil Watson wrote: > On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 09:32:05AM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote: >> What does Adobe Acrobat say when you try to open the files? > > Alas, I do not have Acrobat :( > How do you manage that? It's available for just about every platform. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 15:53:46 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:53:46 -0500 Subject: Problem postscript files In-Reply-To: <45B780A1.10705-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070124135930.GB9411@watson-wilson.ca> <20070124143619.GC9411@watson-wilson.ca> <45B780A1.10705@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070124155346.GD9411@watson-wilson.ca> On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 10:52:01AM -0500, James Knott wrote: >>Alas, I do not have Acrobat :( >> >How do you manage that? It's available for just about every platform. Acrobat and Acrobat reader are different applications. I think some are confusing a pdf file with a postscript file. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 11 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 16:07:33 2007 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:07:33 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <45B74FD2.4050302-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B58D73.40602@ve3syb.ca> <45B625CA.3050004@telly.org> <45B62E59.8000709@rogers.com> <45B6BEB8.3040706@yahoo.ca> <45B6D007.1020603@rogers.com> <45B6F225.80502@yahoo.ca> <45B74FD2.4050302@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45B78445.3080705@yahoo.ca> James Knott wrote: > Stephen Allen wrote: >> At one time there was both, and both were equally terrible in my >> experience. >> > > They wouldn't be in the same area at the same time. Both were in the GTA during that period, ( they might have split up by boroughs [can't remember]). Of course I didn't mean to infer that *I* was using both at the same time. ;) >> ncidentally what area of town are you in? That might make a tremendous >> difference in terms of performance. > > I'm in Mississauga. OK So the Scarborough experience is probably different, as there is greater population density. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 16:15:19 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:15:19 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <45B78445.3080705-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B58D73.40602@ve3syb.ca> <45B625CA.3050004@telly.org> <45B62E59.8000709@rogers.com> <45B6BEB8.3040706@yahoo.ca> <45B6D007.1020603@rogers.com> <45B6F225.80502@yahoo.ca> <45B74FD2.4050302@rogers.com> <45B78445.3080705@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <45B78617.706@rogers.com> Stephen Allen wrote: > OK So the Scarborough experience is probably different, as there is > greater population density. Yeah, some of the people out there are kinda dense. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 16:41:02 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:41:02 -0500 Subject: Problem postscript files In-Reply-To: <20070124135930.GB9411-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070124135930.GB9411@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <45B78C1E.6020909@telly.org> Neil Watson wrote: > I've been given some files from a third party. They claim that these > files are postscript files. The will print in Windows using the CLI > 'print' command. They will not print to any postscript printers on a > Linux server. The Linux 'file' command reports that the files are > postscript. Is this some sort of 'embrace and extend' example? Probably not, broken PS isn't usually deliberate. Ghostscript/ghostview are fairly complete implementations; it's been a while since I used them to debug bad PS but it can certainly do that. Most GUI systems will have ghostview, and KDE and GNOME both have their own customizations (Kghostview and Ggv, respectively). When you say they won't print to postscript printers on a Linux server, that _might_ be because the Linux print systems are introducing their own garbage, so it's important to set your printing flags to ensure that extra file-processing is disabled. I've occasionally encountered situations in which the Linux print system, in a misguided attempt to be helpful, thinks the PS code is actually a source file, and prints the PS instructions rather than executing them! This means that, for instance, if you're using 'lpr' to print the file on a postscript printer under Linux make sure to use the "-l" flag. HTH. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 19:20:55 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:20:55 -0500 Subject: Sabayon? Message-ID: <45B7B197.9030008@telly.org> I've noted a distribution called Sabayon that's currently doing quite well in Distrowatch's popularity poll. It's based on Gentoo but I'm having a difficult time understanding just how it differs from its parent. From a basic read of the website just sounds like someone's pre-built Gentoo config. Can anyone offer any enlightenment on this? Is anyone here using it? Thanks! - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 19:59:06 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:59:06 -0500 Subject: Sabayon? In-Reply-To: <45B7B197.9030008-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45B7B197.9030008@telly.org> Message-ID: <7ac602420701241159l38b4273m25ae04c6b7a0ff42@mail.gmail.com> > Can anyone offer any enlightenment on this? Is anyone here using it? I downloaded it once and ran the LIveCD. Your comparison to "someone's pre-built Gentoo config" is reasonably apt. IIRC, Sabayon is a LiveCD distro like Knoppix (insomuch that you can use the environment that boots from the CD as a day-to-day computing environment) but built on Gentoo instead of Debian. I believe you can install Sabayon to your hard disk, at which point it's just a pre-built Gentoo, so you can "emerge sync && emerge world --update --deep" to upgrade the installed software to whatever the latest versions are in the portage tree. I think the main advantage of Sabayon over gentoo.org's offerings is that the LiveCD is useful for more than just installing Gentoo. Sabayon was also the first place I'd seen a Gentoo-based system running the new OpenGL-based X eye candy (AIGLX and/or Xgl--I forget which) but it's fairly easy to turn on AIGLX in a standard Gentoo install nowadays. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 20:23:10 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:23:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Lun Question References: <200701240926.44376.brad@harrisonpowered.com> Message-ID: Maybe this will help ? : #!/bin/sh # # determine scsi LUNs and device names etc # exports SCSI_LUNS which contains SCSI device name and info, one per line # # plp 2007 # ## note: the sed code removes partitions from the listing SCSI_LIST="" for d in `ls /dev/sd* /dev/sc* /dev/st*|sed -e 's/\(.*sd.*[0-9]\+\)//g'|sort`; do t="`scsi_info $d 2>/dev/null`" \ && SCSI_LIST="$SCSI_LIST\n$d `echo -n $t|tr '\n' ' '`" done [ "$1" == "--print" ] && echo -e "$SCSI_LIST" ## end Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 22:19:07 2007 From: jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:19:07 -0500 Subject: Sabayon? In-Reply-To: <45B7B197.9030008-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45B7B197.9030008@telly.org> Message-ID: <45B7DB5B.1050201@totaltravelmarketing.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I've noted a distribution called Sabayon that's currently doing quite > well in Distrowatch's popularity poll. It's based on Gentoo but I'm > having a difficult time understanding just how it differs from its > parent. From a basic read of the website just sounds like someone's > pre-built Gentoo config. > > Can anyone offer any enlightenment on this? Is anyone here using it? > > Thanks! > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > That I know of, it's pretty popular because it comes with the codecs to play DVD's. and mpeg movies Jose -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 22:24:47 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 23:24:47 +0100 Subject: Sabayon? In-Reply-To: <45B7B197.9030008-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45B7B197.9030008@telly.org> Message-ID: <45B7DCAF.2060303@visible-assets.com> Hmm... interesting. I haven't seen this distro before. There are a couple of interesting projects that are based on gentoo / portage. There is also a good livecd based on gentoo called Kororaa that allows you to try out Xgl. http://kororaa.org/static.php?page=download One I might add is called Paludis, which is an emerge-compatible package manager for use w/ portage. It is written in C++ so it's quite fast. If it were written in C I would consider using it on my embedded linux systems ;-) http://paludis.pioto.org/index.html ~/Chris Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I've noted a distribution called Sabayon that's currently doing quite > well in Distrowatch's popularity poll. It's based on Gentoo but I'm > having a difficult time understanding just how it differs from its > parent. From a basic read of the website just sounds like someone's > pre-built Gentoo config. > > Can anyone offer any enlightenment on this? Is anyone here using it? > > Thanks! > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 23:08:08 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:08:08 -0500 Subject: linux distro runs W98 games? Message-ID: <45B7E6D8.9070404@chrisaitken.net> My kids want to run Windows programs. I would like them to use linux for various reasons. Is there a commercial linux (of the redhat side of things rather than the debian side of things) distibution that can run Windows programs out-of-the-box? Optional extra paid-for support would be fine. I'm not interested in fiddling with their machines anymore. I've tried dual-boots but then they never boot up linux. I actually bought a copy of vmware but I can't shoehorn it into newer distributions. I don't know that it would be great for games anyway. Is there a distro that has successfully integrated wine or winex or whatever so it can run Windows programs? I guess they are older Windos programs because my son, for example, still wants W98SE instead of newer OSs. He says his programs won't even run on XP. Before *you* say it, *I'll* say it: "Yes, I *am* trying to make the problem go away by throwing money at it." I am willing to do the work on my own machine (audacity, rosegarden, printing, Internet, Thunderbird, openoffice et al.) but I am not willing to do this much work on the kids machines. But I would love for them to use linux. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 23:26:41 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:26:41 -0500 Subject: Sabayon? In-Reply-To: <45B7DCAF.2060303-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <45B7B197.9030008@telly.org> <45B7DCAF.2060303@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <45B7EB31.5070601@telly.org> Christopher Friedt wrote: > There is also a good livecd based on gentoo called Kororaa that allows > you to try out Xgl. > > http://kororaa.org/static.php?page=download Kororaa was good for one specific purpose -- it was the first live CD that had the Xgl/beryl stuff on it, so it made for quite a demo. I recall showing it off at a NewTLUG meeting some months ago, when it was the first distro to get the xgl install right. Problem is, everyone else has now caught up. :-) - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 24 23:35:13 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:35:13 -0500 Subject: linux distro runs W98 games? In-Reply-To: <45B7E6D8.9070404-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <45B7E6D8.9070404@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20070124183513.287bbc0b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:08:08 -0500 Chris Aitken got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > I don't know that it would be great for games anyway. Is > there a distro that has successfully integrated wine or winex or > whatever so it can run Windows programs? I guess they are older Windos > programs because my son, for example, still wants W98SE instead of newer > OSs. He says his programs won't even run on XP. Well, it wasn't *perfect*, but for the amount of money (about $10), it certainly was worth it: cedega. Yep, winex repackaged, and maybe not in the most ethical way, certainly not open. But I could not resist, and I tried it, and it bloody well worked. I was running everything from Halflife to Medal of Honour to almost...Halflife 2 (whereupon my hardware gave out). Cedega will run a great deal of Windows games, is very cheap for say, one or two months subscription, which at least will get you up and running, then you really need only pay when you absolutely have to have the latest update, which I never did for about 7 months. YMMV ;-) You don't mention what games exactly, but Cedega should run any of the more 'recent' games, there's a listing of supported games here: http://transgaming.org/gamesdb/ -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "I refuse to fight! I'm a concientious objector." -Bender "A what?" -Fry "You know, a coward." -Bender -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 25 00:50:03 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 19:50:03 -0500 Subject: mythtv -- export to mpeg/burn to dvd? Message-ID: <1169686203.5733.28.camel@localhost> Hi, I run mythtv 0.18 under ubuntu breezy on a low-end dell with a Hauppauge pvr-350 -- t all works great for me and I have not noticed any missing features.. however, I'm now getting requests from people to 'tape something for me' -- e.g., my brother wants us to tape Mr Rogers for his 2-year-old, and occasionally something's on the news that some neighbour wants recorded. so, question: is there an easy way to flag a bunch of recordings in mythtv, perhaps rip them to xvid or mpeg4, then burn them to a dvd? THis would all have to be done either through the mythtv interface, or on the command line; this machine has nothing attached to the onboard vga-out. And it would be nice if it could be done in a pretty straightforward way -- set a bunch of preferences, make sure that the the file has been flagged for commercials, then transcode to a reasonable file name. For some shows I'd probably do it as a cron job. looking around, it seems like nuvexport is the preferred tool for this. does anyone use nuvexport in approximately the way I describe? Or ocmbine it with some ad hoc scripts? WOuld love to hear the experience of others. thanks, Matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 25 01:24:18 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:24:18 -0500 Subject: MythTv - the mythtv user In-Reply-To: References: <200701211520.35978.mervc@eol.ca> <200701231948.57238.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <200701242024.19020.mervc@eol.ca> On Tuesday 23 January 2007 21:50, Tim Writer wrote: > > > I suspect that no one has to log on as the mythtv user to watch telly. > > Correct, you can definitely the mythfrontend as an ordinary desktop user. > You do, however, have to setup your mythtv credentials correctly on desktop > and on the backend, IIRC. I believe the packages have already done this for > you for the mythtv user so it's easier to use it, esp. if your planning to > watch TV full screen. If you want TV running in a window while doing other > work, you'll want to set it up for yourself. I don't remember how to do > this off the top of my head but I believe it's documented at mythtv.org. > There is one page that the user sets up where for a GUI, you specify the size of the tv image, [1024 x 768 is good on a 1280x1024 screen] and then the off sets from the top left corner. i still have to get a good quality picture on the monitor, but there are a lot of suggestions at gossamer-threads etc. None haven't worked for me but that has been from a lack of trying things. Then there is the operation of feeding a TV simultaneously, I gather in the Twinview mode for Nvidia cards. I didn't get a good quality picure with the XP media center or the Adaptec software either when I first tried TV out to see what it was all about. But this has been interesting, my first server - client experience and ssh'ing into another computer has been a great learning experience. Next is how to use a Standard Rogers Digital box, I don't believe we are able to use the HD one yet. Still lots to learn. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 25 01:39:09 2007 From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Matt) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:39:09 -0500 Subject: linux distro runs W98 games? In-Reply-To: <45B7E6D8.9070404-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <45B7E6D8.9070404@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <45B80A3D.5060602@matthewmiddleton.ca> Which distro were you trying to get VMWare into? If your kids are doing 3D games, VMware wouldn't be a good solution because AFAIK, there's no 3D video driver for a virtual video card. If you want some help getting VMWare Server going, it might help with some of the problems you described - you could just take a snapshot once you've got Windows installed and configured, and if things go horribly wrong, you could just reset to the snapshot. Chris Aitken wrote: > My kids want to run Windows programs. I would like them to use linux > for various reasons. Is there a commercial linux (of the redhat side > of things rather than the debian side of things) distibution that can > run Windows programs out-of-the-box? Optional extra paid-for support > would be fine. I'm not interested in fiddling with their machines > anymore. I've tried dual-boots but then they never boot up linux. I > actually bought a copy of vmware but I can't shoehorn it into newer > distributions. I don't know that it would be great for games anyway. > Is there a distro that has successfully integrated wine or winex or > whatever so it can run Windows programs? I guess they are older Windos > programs because my son, for example, still wants W98SE instead of > newer OSs. He says his programs won't even run on XP. > > Before *you* say it, *I'll* say it: "Yes, I *am* trying to make the > problem go away by throwing money at it." I am willing to do the work > on my own machine (audacity, rosegarden, printing, Internet, > Thunderbird, openoffice et al.) but I am not willing to do this much > work on the kids machines. But I would love for them to use linux. > > Chris > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dgardiner0821-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 25 02:22:38 2007 From: dgardiner0821-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (DANIEL GARDINER) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:22:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: linux distro runs W98 games? In-Reply-To: <20070124183513.287bbc0b-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20070124183513.287bbc0b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <32479.91468.qm@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- JoeHill wrote: > On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:08:08 -0500 > Chris Aitken got an infinite number of monkeys to > type out: > > > I don't know that it would be great for games > anyway. Is > > there a distro that has successfully integrated > wine or winex or > > whatever so it can run Windows programs? I guess > they are older Windos > > programs because my son, for example, still wants > W98SE instead of newer > > OSs. He says his programs won't even run on XP. > > Well, it wasn't *perfect*, but for the amount of > money (about $10), it > certainly was worth it: cedega. Yep, winex > repackaged, and maybe not in the > most ethical way, certainly not open. But I could > not resist, and I tried it, > and it bloody well worked. I was running everything > from Halflife to Medal of > Honour to almost...Halflife 2 (whereupon my hardware > gave out). > > Cedega will run a great deal of Windows games, is > very cheap for say, one or > two months subscription, which at least will get you > up and running, then you > really need only pay when you absolutely have to > have the latest update, which > I never did for about 7 months. YMMV ;-) Be careful with the video card though; cedega doesn't work as well with ATI as it does with Nvidia (which is probably due more to ATI than transgaming, but that's a different thread). Codeweavers have recently started supporting games, you could also give them a try (apparently World of Warcraft is already supported). An article I read recently suggested supporting them because they do release their code updates to the Wine project. You could also try Wine first and see if that works for anything, especially if they are older games that don't require the fancy video cards. Can't remember when it came out but Icewind Dale runs just fine under Wine on my machine. Daniel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dgardiner0821-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 25 02:24:10 2007 From: dgardiner0821-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (DANIEL GARDINER) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:24:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <45B78617.706-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <45B78617.706@rogers.com> Message-ID: <925448.87573.qm@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- James Knott wrote: > Stephen Allen wrote: > > OK So the Scarborough experience is probably > different, as there is > > greater population density. > > Yeah, some of the people out there are kinda dense. > ;-) > Hey, I resemble that remark! Daniel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 25 02:29:05 2007 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:29:05 -0500 Subject: mythtv -- export to mpeg/burn to dvd? In-Reply-To: <1169686203.5733.28.camel@localhost> References: <1169686203.5733.28.camel@localhost> Message-ID: I don't know how much effort you're prepared to put into this, but upgrading to ubuntu edgy eft and installing the most recent stable version of mythtv will net you the new MythArchive module, which will do exactly what you want. I regularly burn off dvd's with the weeks Daily Show and Colbert Report episodes for my girlfriend and her room mate. It'll even convert video files off the net and burn them to dvd. Having installed mythtv 0.18 on breezy as well, I can tell you that if you follow the guides at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV you'll get a working system pretty quickly. If you don't want to reinstall mtythv, you could do the legwork to add MythBurn to the install you have. I have to say though, that I found it easier to just upgrade than the shoehorn in MythBurn. However, depending on just how 'low end' we're talking about, the lower requirements for breezy and 0.18 might be reason enough to stick with what you have. On 1/24/07, Matt Price wrote: > > Hi, > > I run mythtv 0.18 under ubuntu breezy on a low-end dell with a Hauppauge > pvr-350 -- t all works great for me and I have not noticed any missing > features.. > > however, I'm now getting requests from people to 'tape something for me' > -- e.g., my brother wants us to tape Mr Rogers for his 2-year-old, and > occasionally something's on the news that some neighbour wants > recorded. > > so, question: is there an easy way to flag a bunch of recordings in > mythtv, perhaps rip them to xvid or mpeg4, then burn them to a dvd? > THis would all have to be done either through the mythtv interface, or > on the command line; this machine has nothing attached to the onboard > vga-out. And it would be nice if it could be done in a pretty > straightforward way -- set a bunch of preferences, make sure that the > the file has been flagged for commercials, then transcode to a > reasonable file name. For some shows I'd probably do it as a cron job. > > looking around, it seems like nuvexport is the preferred tool for this. > does anyone use nuvexport in approximately the way I describe? Or > ocmbine it with some ad hoc scripts? WOuld love to hear the experience > of others. > > thanks, > > Matt > > -- > Matt Price > History Dept > University of Toronto > matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 25 02:33:26 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:33:26 -0500 Subject: Avoiding duplicate submissions Message-ID: <45B816F6.5020501@alteeve.com> Hi all, I am trying to resolve an old problem that I am sure some of you here have dealt with. I've got a web app (perl+apache+postgres) that, for security reasons, only allows cgi variables to be passed as POST (so http://foo.com/cgi-bin/app.cgi?var=val&bar=baz fails). So this means all data is passed via forms. This may or may not be an issue, I dunno but I wanted to mention it. So, I tried using a refresh page. When a form was originally submitted or edited I would show a screen telling the user the save was successful and then refresh to reload the record (with changes applied). The problem is, somehow, the cgi variables remain so if a user refreshed their browser the data would resubmit. I don't see the cgi variables being passed when the refresh page calls the next page, so I am guessing it's in the user's browser somewhere. Perhaps not and I missed it? So a) can this be fixed and if so, how? Or b) what other scheme could I use to prevent duplicate submissions? Thanks all! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 25 03:56:39 2007 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:56:39 -0500 Subject: Problem postscript files In-Reply-To: <45B78C1E.6020909-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070124135930.GB9411@watson-wilson.ca> <45B78C1E.6020909@telly.org> Message-ID: <200701242256.39387.amarjan@pobox.com> On Wednesday 24 January 2007 11:41, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Neil Watson wrote: > > I've been given some files from a third party. They claim that these > > files are postscript files. The will print in Windows using the CLI > > 'print' command. They will not print to any postscript printers on a > > Linux server. The Linux 'file' command reports that the files are > > postscript. Is this some sort of 'embrace and extend' example? > > Probably not, broken PS isn't usually deliberate. There's one gotcha with Windows: some manufacturer-specific drivers (I remember HP) will insert printer-specific binary job control gunk at the start of the file. This gunk can cause problems on other postscript interpreters. Neil could try opening the files in a text editor. Pure postscript files start with something like %!PS-Adobe-3.0 Resource-ProcSet If there's anything ahead of that line, delete it and try again. > When you say they won't print to postscript printers on a Linux server, > that _might_ be because the Linux print systems are introducing their > own garbage, so it's important to set your printing flags to ensure that > extra file-processing is disabled. I've occasionally encountered > situations in which the Linux print system, in a misguided attempt to be > helpful, thinks the PS code is actually a source file, and prints the PS > instructions rather than executing them! Yes, it's quite annoying to discover that by finding a hundred pages of postscript source sitting in your printer's out tray... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 25 04:05:52 2007 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 23:05:52 -0500 Subject: LinuxWorld-NYC-Feb 14-15-2007 Message-ID: <45B82CA0.2080202@knet.ca> Has anyone from TLUG attended this event? Is there anyone at the show that could provide the passes to attend? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 25 04:24:07 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 23:24:07 -0500 Subject: LinuxWorld-NYC-Feb 14-15-2007 In-Reply-To: <45B82CA0.2080202-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <45B82CA0.2080202@knet.ca> Message-ID: <45B830E7.9070707@telly.org> Teddy David Mills wrote: > > Has anyone from TLUG attended this event? > Is there anyone at the show that could provide the passes to attend? Note: This is not a major tradeshow, it's not even called LinuxWorldExpo anymore. The NYC event is called the "Open Solutions Summit" and will be mainly conference (very little exhibit space, and that will be very enterprise focused). http://www.linuxworldexpo.com/live/14/ Are you sure that's what you want? There's only one US LinuxWorld show, and that's the one in SanFran. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 25 08:05:51 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 25 Jan 2007 03:05:51 -0500 Subject: Problem postscript files In-Reply-To: <45B78C1E.6020909-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070124135930.GB9411@watson-wilson.ca> <45B78C1E.6020909@telly.org> Message-ID: Evan Leibovitch writes: > When you say they won't print to postscript printers on a Linux server, > that _might_ be because the Linux print systems are introducing their > own garbage, so it's important to set your printing flags to ensure that > extra file-processing is disabled. I've occasionally encountered > situations in which the Linux print system, in a misguided attempt to be > helpful, thinks the PS code is actually a source file, and prints the PS > instructions rather than executing them! > > This means that, for instance, if you're using 'lpr' to print the file > on a postscript printer under Linux make sure to use the "-l" flag. Or, temporarily disable CUPS (or lpd) and copy the file directly to the port. For example, for a parallel printer: # cp file.ps /dev/lp0 -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 25 12:28:21 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 07:28:21 -0500 Subject: Dilbert Message-ID: <45B8A265.6020101@rogers.com> http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert20071832660125.gif -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 25 15:19:19 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:19:19 -0500 Subject: mythtv -- export to mpeg/burn to dvd? In-Reply-To: <1169686203.5733.28.camel@localhost> References: <1169686203.5733.28.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20070125151919.GG7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 07:50:03PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > Hi, > > I run mythtv 0.18 under ubuntu breezy on a low-end dell with a Hauppauge > pvr-350 -- t all works great for me and I have not noticed any missing > features.. > > however, I'm now getting requests from people to 'tape something for me' > -- e.g., my brother wants us to tape Mr Rogers for his 2-year-old, and > occasionally something's on the news that some neighbour wants > recorded. > > so, question: is there an easy way to flag a bunch of recordings in > mythtv, perhaps rip them to xvid or mpeg4, then burn them to a dvd? > THis would all have to be done either through the mythtv interface, or > on the command line; this machine has nothing attached to the onboard > vga-out. And it would be nice if it could be done in a pretty > straightforward way -- set a bunch of preferences, make sure that the > the file has been flagged for commercials, then transcode to a > reasonable file name. For some shows I'd probably do it as a cron job. > > looking around, it seems like nuvexport is the preferred tool for this. > does anyone use nuvexport in approximately the way I describe? Or > ocmbine it with some ad hoc scripts? WOuld love to hear the experience > of others. mytharchive (new in mythtv 0.20) does exactly that. It is great. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 25 20:53:13 2007 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 15:53:13 -0500 Subject: Avoiding duplicate submissions In-Reply-To: <45B816F6.5020501-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45B816F6.5020501@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880701251253q6f4a7cc1k1098846153f518fa@mail.gmail.com> Hi Madi, If your using postgres couldn't you add something in your web app which sets a transaction number and if it sees that transacation number it would not resubmit? I'm thinking your resubmitting the whole code you implemented. so thats why it is being resubmitted. On 1/24/07, Madison Kelly wrote: > > Hi all, > > I am trying to resolve an old problem that I am sure some of you here > have dealt with. > > I've got a web app (perl+apache+postgres) that, for security reasons, > only allows cgi variables to be passed as POST (so > http://foo.com/cgi-bin/app.cgi?var=val&bar=baz fails). So this means all > data is passed via forms. This may or may not be an issue, I dunno but I > wanted to mention it. > > So, I tried using a refresh page. When a form was originally > submitted or edited I would show a screen telling the user the save was > successful and then refresh to reload the record (with changes applied). > The problem is, somehow, the cgi variables remain so if a user refreshed > their browser the data would resubmit. I don't see the cgi variables > being passed when the refresh page calls the next page, so I am guessing > it's in the user's browser somewhere. Perhaps not and I missed it? > > So a) can this be fixed and if so, how? Or b) what other scheme could > I use to prevent duplicate submissions? > > Thanks all! > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 25 21:27:46 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:27:46 -0500 Subject: Avoiding duplicate submissions In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880701251253q6f4a7cc1k1098846153f518fa-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <45B816F6.5020501@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880701251253q6f4a7cc1k1098846153f518fa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45B920D2.5070002@alteeve.com> Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi Madi, > > If your using postgres couldn't you add something in your web app which > sets > a transaction number and if it sees that transacation number it would not > resubmit? > > I'm thinking your resubmitting the whole code you implemented. so thats why > it is being resubmitted. Thanks for the reply! I've got checks in the program to make sure duplicate submissions don't go through, but it's messy and generates an error ("sorry, not unique" or "nothing changed"). Though I am hoping to avoid entirely by clearing the values. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 26 00:51:04 2007 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:51:04 -0500 Subject: Before I start NFS RTFM, will NFS handle this problem? Message-ID: <45B95078.9000009@knet.ca> I am wasting a lot of diskspace by keeping multiple copies of the same data on different servers. for example: On CENTOS is my music collection and gallery2 picture database. I would like to move this data (and all the data I have) onto the FreeNAS1 server. But I have to tell CENTOS, to mount/map the remote FreeNAS1 directories to a various local directories; as if was local on Centos. (even though the data will only exist on the remote FreeNAS1 server) background data... I am using two FreeNAS servers FREENAS1 and FREENAS2. I back up FreeNAS1 to FreeNAS2 with rsync. Thus I have a valid backup of all data. Today's idea is to move EVERYTHING I have onto FreeNAS1. (currently 70GB) If I move everything onto FreeNAS1, then I have to tell my other linux servers to map FreeNAS directories and have them appear as local to that filesystem. I am not sure if this is what NFS is meant to do. If this is what NFS can do, then full speed ahead. btw, FreeNAS has a NFS setup tab. I would image I would have to make the other linux servers as NFS clients. If this works, it will save me 100's of GB's, a LOT of admin work, and all I have to do is keep dropping more stuff into FreeNAS1. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vgs-XzQKRVe1yT0V+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 26 01:23:50 2007 From: vgs-XzQKRVe1yT0V+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org (VGS) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 20:23:50 -0500 Subject: Before I start NFS RTFM, will NFS handle this problem? In-Reply-To: <45B95078.9000009-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <45B95078.9000009@knet.ca> Message-ID: <45B95826.7020509@videotron.ca> Yes NFS will do this. Add the following line in /etc/fstab . You may want to change the options. 10.10.10.10:/xyz /localfolder nfs timeo=14,intr 0 0 where 10.10.10.10 is the NFS server IP and xyz is the NFS export. localfolder is the path to localfolder. Then give command : mount -a Regards, Shinoj. Teddy David Mills wrote: > I am wasting a lot of diskspace by keeping multiple copies of the same > data on different servers. > > for example: > On CENTOS is my music collection and gallery2 picture database. > I would like to move this data (and all the data I have) onto the > FreeNAS1 server. > But I have to tell CENTOS, to mount/map the remote FreeNAS1 > directories to a various local directories; as if was local on Centos. > (even though the data will only exist on the remote FreeNAS1 server) > > > > background data... > > I am using two FreeNAS servers FREENAS1 and FREENAS2. > I back up FreeNAS1 to FreeNAS2 with rsync. > Thus I have a valid backup of all data. > > Today's idea is to move EVERYTHING I have onto FreeNAS1. (currently 70GB) > > If I move everything onto FreeNAS1, then I have to tell my other linux > servers to map FreeNAS directories and have them appear as local to > that filesystem. > I am not sure if this is what NFS is meant to do. If this is what NFS > can do, then full speed ahead. > > btw, > FreeNAS has a NFS setup tab. I would image I would have to make the > other linux servers as NFS clients. > If this works, it will save me 100's of GB's, a LOT of admin work, > and all I have to do is keep dropping more stuff into FreeNAS1. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 26 01:51:59 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 20:51:59 -0500 Subject: OT: Unparalleled Access Message-ID: <45B95EBF.3050808@pppoe.ca> http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/1631/125/ "CRIA's insistence on focusing on copyright as the source of its problems - along with its continual derision of Canadian policy and the motives of Canadians - is genuinely difficult to understand. Even more difficult to understand, notwithstanding the well-documented fundraising issues, is why the government keeps granting it unparalleled access. I've already reported about how CRIA was busy arranging an event for government officials within days of the election which led to a sponsored lobby session on March 2nd that included a government-funded lunch and a private meeting with Minister Oda. Now new documents reveal that this was merely the tip of the iceberg. Four weeks later (on April 1st), CRIA hosted a private lunch at the Juno Awards for Bev Oda featuring Henderson and the presidents of the major music labels followed by an artist roundtable. Six weeks after that (on May 16th), Graham Henderson was granted another meeting with Bev Oda, this time to counter the news that the indie labels had left CRIA and that the CMCC had launched. This represents an incredible amount of access, particularly considering the unwillingness of the Minister or her staff to even meet with groups representing Canadian artists. With literally monthly private meetings this spring between the Minister of Canadian Heritage and the President of the Canadian Recording Industry Association is it any wonder that Canadians are skeptical about whether their interests will be addressed in the next copyright bill?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 26 04:38:46 2007 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David C. chipman) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 23:38:46 -0500 Subject: Dilbert In-Reply-To: <45B8A265.6020101-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <45B8A265.6020101@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070125233846.35ca6317@david.chipman> Hi James, That dilbert strip wouldn't have something to say about Linux zealots, would it? ;) (Good God, I hope I'm not like that..) -David Chipman - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 26 08:48:35 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:48:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Dilbert References: <45B8A265.6020101@rogers.com> <20070125233846.35ca6317@david.chipman> Message-ID: > That dilbert strip wouldn't have something to say > about Linux zealots, would it? ;) (Good God, I hope I'm not like that..) It's clearly about *alien* Linux zealots, can't you see that ? ;-) Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 26 11:42:18 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:42:18 +0300 Subject: minicom and Cisco equipment issues Message-ID: Hi pals, I wonder if someone have seen this problem before. I have not been able to use a usb-serial cable to get access to Cisco equipment. I am sure minicom is properly configured as I have used the same setting that I used on another box that works well with Ciscos. The main difference is the serial port. One has a real serial port while the other one emulate a serial port through a USB port. The connection seems solid as I can see some Cisco CDP error message mixed up with a lot of gibberish on the console. I however can not interact with the console, and the only way out of it seem to kill the console. The device node is properly created, the kernel notice the interface insertion well -as inferred from the dmesg. I am at a loss at where else I can look for likely issue with this setup. Have someone encountered it and what was the solution? Advice Thanks William Port Scan<*1>: S0 S1 S2 S3 WvModem<*1>: Cannot get information for serial port. ttyUSB0<*1>: ATQ0 V1 E1 -- AjQAjQAj/?+[?Aj/x;?[12][0f]?#[1b]WE?[1a]?[1f][1f];C??E?{?^Z{[0b]??j/?[12]?[??z[?[07][12][0f]?#[1f]E??[1f][1f][1f];???E?{=[1f]?j[=?Q[??x[Q'??E?{[0f]^Z{[0b]+?[?'???E?{?^Z{[0b]??j/?[12]?[?? ttyUSB0<*1>: failed with 2400 baud, next try: 9600 baud ttyUSB0<*1>: ATQ0 V1 E1 -- Backup-Switch> ttyUSB0<*1>: failed with 9600 baud, next try: 115200 baud ttyUSB0<*1>: ATQ0 V1 E1 -- ttyUSB0<*1>: and failed too at 115200, giving up. atkbd.c: Use 'setkeycodes e059 ' to make it known. atkbd.c: Unknown key released (translated set 2, code 0xd9 on isa0060/serio0). atkbd.c: Use 'setkeycodes e059 ' to make it known. usb 2-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 2 usb 2-1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice usbcore: registered new interface driver usbserial drivers/usb/serial/usb-serial.c: USB Serial support registered for generic usbcore: registered new interface driver usbserial_generic drivers/usb/serial/usb-serial.c: USB Serial Driver core drivers/usb/serial/usb-serial.c: USB Serial support registered for pl2303 pl2303 2-1:1.0: pl2303 converter detected usb 2-1: pl2303 converter now attached to ttyUSB0 usbcore: registered new interface driver pl2303 drivers/usb/serial/pl2303.c: Prolific PL2303 USB to serial adaptor driver -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 26 12:37:49 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 07:37:49 -0500 Subject: support pages Message-ID: Hi Team Just wanted you to know that the linuxcaffe.ca/support pages are starting to generate real live contracts, even though only a handful of you are represented. When folks come into the caffe, looking for support (which happens a coupla times a day) I point 'em there, and several consultants AND clints have thanked me after the fact, for making the connection. The more of you with entries, the more it becomes a resource, the more interest, the more clients, the more money for you, etc... consider yourself reminded. :-) djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 26 13:57:20 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:57:20 -0500 Subject: Dilbert In-Reply-To: References: <45B8A265.6020101@rogers.com> <20070125233846.35ca6317@david.chipman> Message-ID: <00a601c74151$e693f0c0$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990418 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Peter P. > Sent: January 26, 2007 3:49 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Re:Dilbert > > > > That dilbert strip wouldn't have something to say > > about Linux zealots, would it? ;) (Good God, I hope I'm not like that..) > > It's clearly about *alien* Linux zealots, can't you see that ? ;-) > > Peter P. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 26 14:39:12 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 09:39:12 -0500 Subject: minicom and Cisco equipment issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070126143912.GH7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 02:42:18PM +0300, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Hi pals, > I wonder if someone have seen this problem before. I have not been able to > use a usb-serial cable to get access to Cisco equipment. I am sure minicom > is properly configured as I have used the same setting that I used on > another box that works well with Ciscos. The main difference is the serial > port. One has a real serial port while the other one emulate a serial port > through a USB port. > The connection seems solid as I can see some Cisco CDP error message > mixed up with a lot of gibberish on the console. I however can not interact > with the console, and the only way out of it seem to kill the console. The > device node is properly created, the kernel notice the interface insertion > well -as inferred from the dmesg. I am at a loss at where else I can look > for likely issue with this setup. Have someone encountered it and what was > the solution? Advice > > Thanks > William > > > Port Scan<*1>: S0 S1 S2 S3 > WvModem<*1>: Cannot get information for serial port. > ttyUSB0<*1>: ATQ0 V1 E1 -- > AjQAjQAj/???+[???Aj/x;???[12][0f]???#[1b]WE???[1a]?[1f][1f];C??????E???{???^Z{[0b]??????j/???[12]???[??????z[???[07][12][0f]???#[1f]E????[1f][1f][1f];?????????E???{=[1f]???j[=???Q[??????x[Q'??????E???{[0f]^Z{[0b]+???[???'?????????E???{???^Z{[0b]??????j/???[12]???[?????? > ttyUSB0<*1>: failed with 2400 baud, next try: 9600 baud > ttyUSB0<*1>: ATQ0 V1 E1 -- Backup-Switch> > ttyUSB0<*1>: failed with 9600 baud, next try: 115200 baud > ttyUSB0<*1>: ATQ0 V1 E1 -- > ttyUSB0<*1>: and failed too at 115200, giving up. > > > atkbd.c: Use 'setkeycodes e059 ' to make it known. > atkbd.c: Unknown key released (translated set 2, code 0xd9 on > isa0060/serio0). > atkbd.c: Use 'setkeycodes e059 ' to make it known. > usb 2-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 2 > usb 2-1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice > usbcore: registered new interface driver usbserial > drivers/usb/serial/usb-serial.c: USB Serial support registered for generic > usbcore: registered new interface driver usbserial_generic > drivers/usb/serial/usb-serial.c: USB Serial Driver core > drivers/usb/serial/usb-serial.c: USB Serial support registered for pl2303 > pl2303 2-1:1.0: pl2303 converter detected > usb 2-1: pl2303 converter now attached to ttyUSB0 > usbcore: registered new interface driver pl2303 > drivers/usb/serial/pl2303.c: Prolific PL2303 USB to serial adaptor driver I have used a pl2303 adapter recently, and was using it to talk to a USR modem which worked perfectly. No idea why it wouldn't work with a cisco unless the cisco was broken. Of course it could be the usb adapter is defective, or maybe the cable you are using is defective. Certainly the line '> ttyUSB0<*1>: ATQ0 V1 E1 -- Backup-Switch>' looks like at 9600 (as expected) the cisco did send readable text. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 26 15:09:11 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:09:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: minicom and Cisco equipment issues In-Reply-To: <20070126143912.GH7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070126143912.GH7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <50660.207.188.66.250.1169824151.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > I have used a pl2303 adapter recently, and was using it to talk to a USR > modem which worked perfectly. No idea why it wouldn't work with a cisco > unless the cisco was broken. Of course it could be the usb adapter is > defective, or maybe the cable you are using is defective. > We have found that some of the really cheap USB - serial adaptors simply do not work in talking to a hardware development system. So you might want to get a brand-name device and try that. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 26 15:23:56 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:23:56 -0500 Subject: minicom and Cisco equipment issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45BA1D0C.30703@rogers.com> Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Hi pals, > I wonder if someone have seen this problem before. I have not been > able to use a usb-serial cable to get access to Cisco equipment. I am > sure minicom is properly configured as I have used the same setting > that I used on another box that works well with Ciscos. The main > difference is the serial port. One has a real serial port while the > other one emulate a serial port through a USB port. > The connection seems solid as I can see some Cisco CDP error > message mixed up with a lot of gibberish on the console. I however > can not interact with the console, and the only way out of it seem to > kill the console. The device node is properly created, the kernel > notice the interface insertion well -as inferred from the dmesg. I am > at a loss at where else I can look for likely issue with this setup. > Have someone encountered it and what was the solution? Advice First, make sure the serial port can talk to itself. Short pins 2 & 3 of the DE-9 connector and configure minicom for no handshaking. When you type, you should see the characters appear on the screen. If that appears OK, then you know the serial port is working properly. Also, try connecting to the Cisco without handshaking. I use a serial connection to some equipment that uses the same connection as Cisco and it requires handshaking to be off. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 26 15:38:10 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:38:10 -0500 Subject: minicom and Cisco equipment issues In-Reply-To: <50660.207.188.66.250.1169824151.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20070126143912.GH7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50660.207.188.66.250.1169824151.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <45BA2062.8000609@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> I have used a pl2303 adapter recently, and was using it to talk to a USR >> modem which worked perfectly. No idea why it wouldn't work with a cisco >> unless the cisco was broken. Of course it could be the usb adapter is >> defective, or maybe the cable you are using is defective. >> >> > We have found that some of the really cheap USB - serial adaptors simply > do not work in talking to a hardware development system. So you might want > to get a brand-name device and try that. > > A couple of years ago, I picked up one at Logic Computer House, which didn't work at all in Linux or Windows. I took it back and tried a couple more of the same, while in the store. None of them worked. I then went to Sayal and got one that worked right away in Linux and also in Windows, after loading the driver. I recently bought another one from Sayal called "Manhattan", which works well in Linux. It was $20. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 26 17:10:53 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:10:53 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <20070123122617.3a442031-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B56AED.1070703@rogers.com> <87y7nuiimt.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> <20070123154247.GC7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070123172545.GD20380@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070123122617.3a442031@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <45BA361D.50309@ve3syb.ca> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 09:25:46PM -0500, Charles philip Chan wrote > Which is of no use since their TOS forbids servers, IIRC. Strictly speaking, IM, IRC, and P2P programs act in part as servers which would make using them going against their TOS. AFAIK, their real concern is someone running an FTP or Web server (for example) that would result in excessive traffic that could impact other users of the service. You wouldn't really want to run a server that would have a lot of traffic on it anyway since the upload speed is a lot lower than the download speed. There is also a monthly cap on the amount line to consider if one was wanting to run a server. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 26 17:24:56 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:24:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Dilbert References: <45B8A265.6020101@rogers.com> <20070125233846.35ca6317@david.chipman> Message-ID: I wonder what the Canadian equivalent of the following cartoon could be. http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990606 Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 26 17:41:05 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:41:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Dilbert References: <45B8A265.6020101@rogers.com> <20070125233846.35ca6317@david.chipman> Message-ID: Speaking of fanatical ... is't there this rumor about 'Linux' and 'Open Source' being anatema in some really big software and hardware houses ? http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990716 Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 26 19:14:00 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:14:00 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <45BA361D.50309-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B56AED.1070703@rogers.com> <87y7nuiimt.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> <20070123154247.GC7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070123172545.GD20380@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070123122617.3a442031@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45BA361D.50309@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <45BA52F8.4010409@rogers.com> > AFAIK, their real concern is someone running an FTP or Web server I've been running an ssh server for a good 9 years now and never had a problem. But I've also done huge, I mean hug, scp between home and several places, work, etc. Never had an issue. It's lead me to the conclusion that they only start paying attention to things when you're on a busy subnet/segment/whatever. Then it probably wouldn't matter what you were doing if they were under the squeeze... but I'll bet they look for web, ftp and p2p traffic before they pay attention to ssh. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 26 20:08:04 2007 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:08:04 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet In-Reply-To: <45BA52F8.4010409-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10701221549u5c7e2476kb0bcfd0ea284132f@mail.gmail.com> <45B56AED.1070703@rogers.com> <87y7nuiimt.fsf@MagnumOpus.khem> <20070123154247.GC7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070123172545.GD20380@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20070123122617.3a442031@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45BA361D.50309@ve3syb.ca> <45BA52F8.4010409@rogers.com> Message-ID: I've run web and ftp servers even on both Bell and Rogers connection before. Not particularly high traffic (the upload on residential connections wont allow for a high traffic site), but I've certainly run them before without a problem. I imagine that p2p is a bigger problem than ftp and web traffic in terms of bandwidth use, but web, ftp, and mail servers are a greater concern for liability. Easier to say they aren't allowed so you have the legal slack to shut down any 'problems' that arise. People running hate-speech websites and the like from home machines, people setting up open-relays for mail servers, etc. I don't think they intend to shut down hobbyists or budding comp sci students. On 1/26/07, Byron Sonne wrote: > > > AFAIK, their real concern is someone running an FTP or Web server > > I've been running an ssh server for a good 9 years now and never had a > problem. But I've also done huge, I mean hug, scp between home and > several places, work, etc. Never had an issue. > > It's lead me to the conclusion that they only start paying attention to > things when you're on a busy subnet/segment/whatever. Then it probably > wouldn't matter what you were doing if they were under the squeeze... > but I'll bet they look for web, ftp and p2p traffic before they pay > attention to ssh. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 27 06:25:28 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 01:25:28 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' Message-ID: The next time I'm looking to do any disk expansion, I think I'm going to look at some of the new "NAS" options... One that looks pretty attractive is the Infrant ReadyNAS. Empty of disk, it's about $800 CDN; it then supports up to 4 SATA drives, speaking RAID with that so that with 4 250GB drives, you'd have, with redundancy, 0.75TB of storage. According to the FAQ, it's actually running Linux. http://www.infrant.com/wiki/index.php/FAQ Yes, I could throw a SATA controller onto an existing box; the "appliance" approach here strikes me as being increasingly attractive. Has anyone tried one of these? -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 28 14:49:12 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 14:49:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Lun Question References: <200701240926.44376.brad@harrisonpowered.com> Message-ID: So did it help ? Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jad-V3Qe//ktpHnR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 28 15:41:31 2007 From: jad-V3Qe//ktpHnR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org (Jose A. Dias) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 10:41:31 -0500 Subject: Rogers high-speed internet Message-ID: <08795C772787354E914917175F5503301B461A@skarloey.diaslan.net> Stephen Allen wrote: > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:05 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Rogers high-speed internet > > James Knott wrote: > > > Bell will now supply a modem/router/firewall combo, but that's useless > > for my work, which requires only a modem. > > Well just use it for a modem then ... > > My experiences have been a little different. > > Two years ago I lived in Scarborough and used Cable Internet. It was > atrocious, and even though I was on high speed, (as opposed to Ultra), I > achieved a maximum 70 kbps usually averaging 40 kbps. This was in 3 > different locations in Scarborough. I live in the Eglinton and Martin Grove area, and DSL was not available until 2006. Everyone around had it, but I couldn't get it. My only choice was Rogers and I went with it. First with Teryon devices and it was hell. The things worked like crap (they just sat there and stunk up the place) and were not much faster then my old modems. When Rogers introduced their "new" Ultra I jumped on it. I bought the device and all of a sudden My speed doubled. Like any other business, Rogers is in the marked to make money. In a corner of a neighborhood, bound by the 427 and 401 on two sides, "good enough" was all I was getting. Good enough to use it, but nothing spectacular. By going to the "new" Ultra service I was no longer sharing this end of the segment. I hooked up early to Rogers, but most of my neighbors have now signed up, so congestion on our segment is an issue. I'm paying more for a service I feel I should have been getting from the beginning, but "full of choices" is not a classification I'd use for the internet connectivity market here in Toronto. It's available, but on "their" terms. > Since I"ve moved to downtown Toronto, DSL from Sympatico, has been > reliable -- More so than Cable ever was for me. I'm getting faster speed > as well,(a steady average of 350 kbps, (sometimes higher) on most of my > surfing/downloads. > > For $35/month (contract) I get better service, faster throughput, and a > great little wireless/conventional router/switch/modem, that works > better than my Linksys, ever did. IPCop is your friend. A Pentium 90 with a couple nic's will work non stop! > > YMMV YMWV > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 03:47:26 2007 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David C. chipman) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 22:47:26 -0500 Subject: Dilbert In-Reply-To: References: <45B8A265.6020101@rogers.com> <20070125233846.35ca6317@david.chipman> Message-ID: <20070128224726.78c08669@david.chipman> Hi Peter, You asked if I noticed it was an alien Linux zealot, and I have to say no, I didn't. Thanks for pointing it out. Later, -David Chipman -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 14:30:21 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:30:21 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 27, 2007 at 01:25:28AM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > The next time I'm looking to do any disk expansion, I think I'm going > to look at some of the new "NAS" options... > > One that looks pretty attractive is the Infrant ReadyNAS. > > Empty of disk, it's about $800 CDN; it then supports up to 4 SATA > drives, speaking RAID with that so that with 4 250GB drives, you'd > have, with redundancy, 0.75TB of storage. > > According to the FAQ, it's actually running Linux. > http://www.infrant.com/wiki/index.php/FAQ > > Yes, I could throw a SATA controller onto an existing box; the > "appliance" approach here strikes me as being increasingly attractive. > > Has anyone tried one of these? Hmm, so for $400 I can add 4 250GB drives to my system, use md software raid, and know how it works, how to fix it, and how to move it to a new controller later if my system dies for some reason. I can even add more disks and resize it if I want to. For $800 + $00, I can have the same size raid, but have no clue how it works, or how to fix it if it breaks, and it my controller dies, I have probably lost my data. I can't expand it past the 4 disks ever. I guess I just don't get it. :) Those poor windows users of course don't get software raid for free, so they are forced to spend more money on such things, but of course windows users are used to spending money to get trivial features (just check the cost of windows vista). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 17:11:35 2007 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 12:11:35 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <20070129143021.GI7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> On 1/29/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Jan 27, 2007 at 01:25:28AM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: ... > For $800 + $00, I can have the same size raid, but have no clue how it > works, or how to fix it if it breaks, and it my controller dies, I have > probably lost my data. I can't expand it past the 4 disks ever. > > I guess I just don't get it. :) Those poor windows users of course > don't get software raid for free, so they are forced to spend more money > on such things, but of course windows users are used to spending money > to get trivial features (just check the cost of windows vista). Windows has had software RAID since 1996 in NT 4. I think all your concerns are valid... if software RAID is inadequate for your solution (too many PCI slots lost to separate controllers, too much overhead, etc.. ) then you have to very carefully research, understand and trust your hardware. It's not an easy problem. Hardware RAID just moves a little more trust on to the hardware side. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 18:42:24 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 13:42:24 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> IMO, hardware raid is a better performer and more reliable. When it's hardware that's where the real advantages come in. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 18:58:30 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 13:58:30 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <45BE4010.4000901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 01:42:24PM -0500, Byron Sonne wrote: > IMO, hardware raid is a better performer and more reliable. When it's > hardware that's where the real advantages come in. My experience has been that software raid performed a lot better (maybe the hardware raid cards weren't very good). It is certainly easier to manage hardware raid in terms of booting and such, but not much else. Reliability is probably also identical. Easier to fix software raid than to get bugs in raid controller firmware fixed too. Linux software raid also has a lot more testing and a larger user base, than any hardware raid platform will ever have. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 19:05:20 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:05:20 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <45BE4010.4000901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45BE4570.7010802@alteeve.com> Byron Sonne wrote: > IMO, hardware raid is a better performer and more reliable. When it's > hardware that's where the real advantages come in. I feel that depends on the controller and hardware. I've seen so many "hardware" RAID controllers, which in reality are little more than the equivalent of winmodems, fail. Then unless you have a spare controller, you are SOL. In the cases where the alternative is low-end RAID hardware like that, I always recommend using software arrays. At least then the array is not tied to the hardware. Now, if you get a controller with a dedicated processor then you are in business. Generally those controllers have (at least) a dedicated MIPS CPU for handling XOR calculations (specially important in a failed state) with it's own dedicated RAM for caching and often even have their own battery backup on-board to maintain unwritten data in case of a power failure. On DB systems, this is specially important. http://www.adaptec.com/en-US/products/sas_cards/performance/SAS-4800/ Look like it's inline with what I am talking about (though I couldn't see specs on it's proc, but it's priced in the range to have one). My $0.02 :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 19:21:57 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:21:57 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <20070129185830.GJ7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45BE4955.2020309@rogers.com> > My experience has been that software raid performed a lot better (maybe > the hardware raid cards weren't very good) Probably the case; I'm not talking about typical College St. gear. Consumer stuff is often a poor representation of the techonologies that underlie the product. > Reliability is probably also identical. Easier to fix software raid > than to get bugs in raid controller firmware fixed too. Linux software > raid also has a lot more testing and a larger user base, than any > hardware raid platform will ever have. Negatory on all counts, good buddy! I'll bet $20 that Compaq/HP hardware raid cards are in more boxes... think of all the Proliant and Prosignia servers out there. Now think of the IBM and Dell product equivalents. I'm definately certain that with all of those combined there's more of them, and they've had more testing for longer, than any linux software raid. Software raid is a toy :) Cheers, B -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 19:27:03 2007 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:27:03 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <45BE4570.7010802-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45BE4570.7010802@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F473022EA592@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> I was a user of Adaptec 2410 cards...note the past tense. It's supposedly a true hardware raid contoller. Problems were, I'd get a failure on at least one of them (2 on board) at least every 3 months. 1/2 the time, it meant the loss of the array. I finally gave up and switched to dumb promise cards...on soft raid. The problems included complete lack of support from Adaptec, overheating issues, slow rebuilds (1.5tb array took about 1 week to complete), and incompatibility between different firmwares on the cards, meaning I couldn't even card swap in case of a failure. So now, it's soft raid for me. Crazy part, in light of this thread, is that swap (to soft raid) happened about 2 months ago with my first soft raid failure this weekend. I got an email that it happened. It brought the spare drive into play and in 3 hours, was finished the rebuild. I shut the box down this morning, swapped out a drive and brought it back up, new spare drive online in 10min after that. Single boot. I could never do it that easy on the hardware raid cards. I'm sold on soft raid now. And I'm not locked into anyone's propriety firmware, formats, etc. And I can easily expand beyond the 4 + 1 hot spare now too, which may be happening soon too. My only wish is that I'd done raid 6 instead of 5 reducing the risk of a controller failure, but maybe that's a project for this summer... My $0.02. Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Madison Kelly Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 2:05 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Nice looking 'disk array' Byron Sonne wrote: > IMO, hardware raid is a better performer and more reliable. When it's > hardware that's where the real advantages come in. I feel that depends on the controller and hardware. I've seen so many "hardware" RAID controllers, which in reality are little more than the equivalent of winmodems, fail. Then unless you have a spare controller, you are SOL. In the cases where the alternative is low-end RAID hardware like that, I always recommend using software arrays. At least then the array is not tied to the hardware. Now, if you get a controller with a dedicated processor then you are in business. Generally those controllers have (at least) a dedicated MIPS CPU for handling XOR calculations (specially important in a failed state) with it's own dedicated RAM for caching and often even have their own battery backup on-board to maintain unwritten data in case of a power failure. On DB systems, this is specially important. http://www.adaptec.com/en-US/products/sas_cards/performance/SAS-4800/ Look like it's inline with what I am talking about (though I couldn't see specs on it's proc, but it's priced in the range to have one). My $0.02 :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.14/657 - Release Date: 1/29/2007 9:04 AM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.14/657 - Release Date: 1/29/2007 9:04 AM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 19:34:38 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:34:38 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F473022EA592-hbz38jcr0NLYZa0sO8Gwjj0STfaKdC/d@public.gmane.org> References: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F473022EA592@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> Message-ID: <45BE4C4E.90100@alteeve.com> Dave Bour wrote: > I was a user of Adaptec 2410 cards...note the past tense. It's supposedly a true hardware raid contoller. Problems were, I'd get a failure on at least one of them (2 on board) at least every 3 months. 1/2 the time, it meant the loss of the array. I finally gave up and switched to dumb promise cards...on soft raid. > > The problems included complete lack of support from Adaptec, overheating issues, slow rebuilds (1.5tb array took about 1 week to complete), and incompatibility between different firmwares on the cards, meaning I couldn't even card swap in case of a failure. > > So now, it's soft raid for me. Crazy part, in light of this thread, is that swap (to soft raid) happened about 2 months ago with my first soft raid failure this weekend. I got an email that it happened. It brought the spare drive into play and in 3 hours, was finished the rebuild. I shut the box down this morning, swapped out a drive and brought it back up, new spare drive online in 10min after that. Single boot. I could never do it that easy on the hardware raid cards. > > I'm sold on soft raid now. And I'm not locked into anyone's propriety firmware, formats, etc. And I can easily expand beyond the 4 + 1 hot spare now too, which may be happening soon too. My only wish is that I'd done raid 6 instead of 5 reducing the risk of a controller failure, but maybe that's a project for this summer... > > My $0.02. > Dave > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Madison Kelly > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 2:05 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Nice looking 'disk array' > > Byron Sonne wrote: >> IMO, hardware raid is a better performer and more reliable. When it's >> hardware that's where the real advantages come in. > > I feel that depends on the controller and hardware. I've seen so many "hardware" RAID controllers, which in reality are little more than the equivalent of winmodems, fail. Then unless you have a spare controller, you are SOL. In the cases where the alternative is low-end RAID hardware like that, I always recommend using software arrays. At least then the array is not tied to the hardware. > > Now, if you get a controller with a dedicated processor then you are in business. Generally those controllers have (at least) a dedicated MIPS CPU for handling XOR calculations (specially important in a failed > state) with it's own dedicated RAM for caching and often even have their own battery backup on-board to maintain unwritten data in case of a power failure. On DB systems, this is specially important. > > http://www.adaptec.com/en-US/products/sas_cards/performance/SAS-4800/ > > Look like it's inline with what I am talking about (though I couldn't see specs on it's proc, but it's priced in the range to have one). > > My $0.02 :) > > Madi Good to know that about Adaptec. In the past, when I wasn't using the Compaq/Proliant controllers I would use Mylex, which was owned by IBM for a while but now by LSI (iirc). *sigh* Good hardware is a dieing breed in the face of commodity pressures. A sad state. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 19:37:28 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:37:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: billions of files, ext3, reiser, and ls -al In-Reply-To: <45BE4B8F.8030309-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <45BE4B8F.8030309@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Jan 2007, Byron Sonne wrote: > When I had a dir with a proverbial billion files in it, under reiser an > ls -al would throw an error like 'too many arguments'. I reinstalled my > system last night, converted to ext3, and now ls -al doesn't throw and > error anymore. > > If one were a betting person, would you be inclined to think the success > is due to (1) new file system or (2) modifications to the ls program? More likely you used a different command. If you just do 'ls -al', you would not get 'too many arguments'. If you do 'ls -al *' you will. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 19:41:57 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:41:57 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <45BE4C4E.90100-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F473022EA592@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> <45BE4C4E.90100@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <45BE4E05.70004@rogers.com> Madison... fix your posting! You don't need to quote everything just to leave 2 lines of new text at the bottom ;) This goes for the rest of you too! http://www.river.com/users/share/etiquette/ Madison Kelly wrote: > Dave Bour wrote: >> I was a user of Adaptec 2410 cards...note the past tense. It's >> supposedly a true hardware raid contoller. Problems were, I'd get a >> failure on at least one of them (2 on board) at least every 3 months. >> 1/2 the time, it meant the loss of the array. I finally gave up and >> switched to dumb promise cards...on soft raid. >> >> The problems included complete lack of support from Adaptec, >> overheating issues, slow rebuilds (1.5tb array took about 1 week to >> complete), and incompatibility between different firmwares on the >> cards, meaning I couldn't even card swap in case of a failure. >> So now, it's soft raid for me. Crazy part, in light of this thread, >> is that swap (to soft raid) happened about 2 months ago with my first >> soft raid failure this weekend. I got an email that it happened. It >> brought the spare drive into play and in 3 hours, was finished the >> rebuild. I shut the box down this morning, swapped out a drive and >> brought it back up, new spare drive online in 10min after that. >> Single boot. I could never do it that easy on the hardware raid cards. >> >> I'm sold on soft raid now. And I'm not locked into anyone's propriety >> firmware, formats, etc. And I can easily expand beyond the 4 + 1 hot >> spare now too, which may be happening soon too. My only wish is that >> I'd done raid 6 instead of 5 reducing the risk of a controller >> failure, but maybe that's a project for this summer... >> >> My $0.02. >> Dave >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of >> Madison Kelly >> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 2:05 PM >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Nice looking 'disk array' >> >> Byron Sonne wrote: >>> IMO, hardware raid is a better performer and more reliable. When it's >>> hardware that's where the real advantages come in. >> >> I feel that depends on the controller and hardware. I've seen so many >> "hardware" RAID controllers, which in reality are little more than the >> equivalent of winmodems, fail. Then unless you have a spare >> controller, you are SOL. In the cases where the alternative is low-end >> RAID hardware like that, I always recommend using software arrays. At >> least then the array is not tied to the hardware. >> >> Now, if you get a controller with a dedicated processor then you are >> in business. Generally those controllers have (at least) a dedicated >> MIPS CPU for handling XOR calculations (specially important in a failed >> state) with it's own dedicated RAM for caching and often even have >> their own battery backup on-board to maintain unwritten data in case >> of a power failure. On DB systems, this is specially important. >> >> http://www.adaptec.com/en-US/products/sas_cards/performance/SAS-4800/ >> >> Look like it's inline with what I am talking about (though I couldn't >> see specs on it's proc, but it's priced in the range to have one). >> >> My $0.02 :) >> >> Madi > > Good to know that about Adaptec. In the past, when I wasn't using the > Compaq/Proliant controllers I would use Mylex, which was owned by IBM > for a while but now by LSI (iirc). > > *sigh* > > Good hardware is a dieing breed in the face of commodity pressures. A > sad state. > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 19:47:13 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:47:13 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <45BE4E05.70004-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F473022EA592@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> <45BE4C4E.90100@alteeve.com> <45BE4E05.70004@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45BE4F41.3020100@alteeve.com> Byron Sonne wrote: > Madison... fix your posting! You don't need to quote everything just to > leave 2 lines of new text at the bottom ;) > > This goes for the rest of you too! > > http://www.river.com/users/share/etiquette/ Hey, I stopped top-posting, so I'm doing better! :P Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 19:31:27 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:31:27 -0500 Subject: billions of files, ext3, reiser, and ls -al Message-ID: <45BE4B8F.8030309@rogers.com> When I had a dir with a proverbial billion files in it, under reiser an ls -al would throw an error like 'too many arguments'. I reinstalled my system last night, converted to ext3, and now ls -al doesn't throw and error anymore. If one were a betting person, would you be inclined to think the success is due to (1) new file system or (2) modifications to the ls program? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 21:45:46 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:45:46 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <45BE4955.2020309-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE4955.2020309@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070129214546.GK7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 02:21:57PM -0500, Byron Sonne wrote: > > My experience has been that software raid performed a lot better (maybe > > the hardware raid cards weren't very good) > > Probably the case; I'm not talking about typical College St. gear. > Consumer stuff is often a poor representation of the techonologies that > underlie the product. My experience is with IBM ServeRaid 4M cards. Performance was a lot worse than linux software raid. I was very surprised by it. > Negatory on all counts, good buddy! I'll bet $20 that Compaq/HP hardware > raid cards are in more boxes... think of all the Proliant and Prosignia > servers out there. Now think of the IBM and Dell product equivalents. > I'm definately certain that with all of those combined there's more of > them, and they've had more testing for longer, than any linux software raid. > > Software raid is a toy :) Given companies like 3ware actually claim most of their users run software raid rather than hardware raid, I doubt it. A lot of people run software raid under linux. I can't imagine any hardware raid card has the same number of users as software raid under linux. Software raid is not a toy. It is a very useful tool. Many servers don't need the cpu power they have and can outperform dedicated hardware processors in many cases as a result. And for some people avoiding vendor lockin-in is a major advantage in addition to the potential performance gains and the cost savings (Well some people use raid cards as JBOD controllers, so no cost savings there). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 22:02:16 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:02:16 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <20070129214546.GK7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE4955.2020309@rogers.com> <20070129214546.GK7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45BE6EE8.1030307@rogers.com> > I can't imagine any hardware raid card > has the same number of users as software raid under linux. Ah, but that wasn't what was originally said ;) You said "Linux software raid also has a lot more testing and a larger user base, than any hardware raid platform will ever have." You didn't specify that the 'any hardware raid platform' was linux. With that admission I would of course have to concur that there's more Linux software raid users than Linux hardware raid users. > Software raid is not a toy. It is a very useful tool. Yeah, I overstated that ;) Still, well done hardware raid *is* a superior technical design. Not necessarily cost effective for the average user, I agree. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 22:10:08 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:10:08 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <45BE6EE8.1030307-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE4955.2020309@rogers.com> <20070129214546.GK7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE6EE8.1030307@rogers.com> Message-ID: > >> Software raid is not a toy. It is a very useful tool. > > Yeah, I overstated that ;) Still, well done hardware raid *is* a > superior technical design. Not necessarily cost effective for the > average user, I agree. So what happens in software raid when someone pulls the plug on the machine ??? and if you want fast cheap hardware RAID controllers check out Areca. 1GB optional battery backed up write cache means the answer to the above question is nothing bad. Dave > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 22:36:02 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:36:02 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE4955.2020309@rogers.com> <20070129214546.GK7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE6EE8.1030307@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45BE76D2.6070308@rogers.com> > So what happens in software raid when someone pulls the plug on the > machine ??? > and if you want fast cheap hardware RAID controllers check out Areca. > 1GB optional battery backed up write cache means the answer to the above > question is nothing bad. That's one the things I loved about the cpqarray (or wtf they were called) type cards. Battery backed up cache like you mentioned, saved our arses a couple times. I'm also fundamentally opposed to any device that cheaps out by using the host CPU. To me the idea reeks just like a winmodem. I don't care if there's cycles to spare; the idea just flat out bothers me. It's wrong like Windows is wrong. IMO it kinda goes against part of the Unix philosophy too: do one thing and do it well. And when your box is tapped serving out data to tons of people, and you've got a volume rebuild on your hands after replacing 2 failed drives out of 7... it's nice that the raid card has a CPU to do it's own work. The comparison I think we need between the two is this : serve out data to something like 8000 users while being backed up to tape simultaneously, as well as doing a volume rebuild. Sadly, this is a more realistic scenario than I wish it was ;) I picked 8000 because I'm familiar with the performance issues and gear for handling those kinds of resources. I will wager that the software raid falls over way before hardware raid in an enterprise environment. You also have the added advantage that alot (most?) of the enterprise raid uses scsi for the disks. SCSI drives tend to better built and hold up better than ATA (IDE) under the 8000 user type scenario envisioned above. There's a reason scsi drives cost more ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 23:09:41 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 18:09:41 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE4955.2020309@rogers.com> <20070129214546.GK7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE6EE8.1030307@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070129230941.GM7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 05:10:08PM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: > So what happens in software raid when someone pulls the plug on the > machine ??? Anything still in system ram is lost. > and if you want fast cheap hardware RAID controllers check out Areca. > 1GB optional battery backed up write cache means the answer to the > above question is nothing bad. Anything still in system ram is lost. Difference is that you get the ability to do some write caching in hardware, which you don't get above. Until the OS decides it is time to write though, both solutions are equal. The battery backed hardware raid can finish the I/O sooner for the OS though, and not loose it. So small benefit there. Surprisingly many hardware raid cards don't have battery backed caches though. Besides I have a UPS. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 23:15:34 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 18:15:34 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <45BE76D2.6070308-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE4955.2020309@rogers.com> <20070129214546.GK7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE6EE8.1030307@rogers.com> <45BE76D2.6070308@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070129231534.GN7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 05:36:02PM -0500, Byron Sonne wrote: > > So what happens in software raid when someone pulls the plug on the > > machine ??? > > and if you want fast cheap hardware RAID controllers check out Areca. > > 1GB optional battery backed up write cache means the answer to the above > > question is nothing bad. > > That's one the things I loved about the cpqarray (or wtf they were > called) type cards. Battery backed up cache like you mentioned, saved > our arses a couple times. > > I'm also fundamentally opposed to any device that cheaps out by using > the host CPU. To me the idea reeks just like a winmodem. I don't care if > there's cycles to spare; the idea just flat out bothers me. It's wrong > like Windows is wrong. IMO it kinda goes against part of the Unix > philosophy too: do one thing and do it well. But what if your 3GHz CPU does XOR better than the dedicated chip on the card? Now if you are running a database server which has things to do with the CPU, then sure offload the XOR to a dedicated chip, but otherwise, if you are running a fileserver only, perhaps you would rather have faster performance. > And when your box is tapped serving out data to tons of people, and > you've got a volume rebuild on your hands after replacing 2 failed > drives out of 7... it's nice that the raid card has a CPU to do it's own > work. You let two disks fail at once? > The comparison I think we need between the two is this : serve out data > to something like 8000 users while being backed up to tape > simultaneously, as well as doing a volume rebuild. Sadly, this is a more > realistic scenario than I wish it was ;) I picked 8000 because I'm > familiar with the performance issues and gear for handling those kinds > of resources. I will wager that the software raid falls over way before > hardware raid in an enterprise environment. > > You also have the added advantage that alot (most?) of the enterprise > raid uses scsi for the disks. SCSI drives tend to better built and hold > up better than ATA (IDE) under the 8000 user type scenario envisioned > above. There's a reason scsi drives cost more ;) SCSI tends to have faster seek times, lower capacities per disk, higher rotation speed, higher costs, and command queueing. SATA generation 2 has command queueing too, which helps a lot under multi user. Of course 3ware controllers emulate command queueing on any disk with the full benefit of that. I suspect some other cards do too. Parallel ATA is simply of no interest anymore, and I can't imagine anyone willingly buying any of those anymore. As for better built, well I am no longer convinced of that. Too many failures in IBM hotswap scsi drivers for me to believe that anymore. If you really care about enterprise though, you want SAS. Dual ported drives makes a lot of sense for reliability, and not having the scsi bus as a single point of failure for a raid also makes a lot of sense. The scsi cable is often much more likely to fail than the controller, so having one link per drive just makes sense, and having two links per drive makes even more sense. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 23:17:05 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 18:17:05 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <07E8BD25-CD19-4F48-B0A6-1091DD258843-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE4955.2020309@rogers.com> <20070129214546.GK7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE6EE8.1030307@rogers.com> <45BE76D2.6070308@rogers.com> <07E8BD25-CD19-4F48-B0A6-1091DD258843@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <20070129231705.GO7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 06:12:30PM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: > I think this statement is less true now than it was in the past. I'll > wager that there's no difference on the assembly line between SCSI > and SATA drives other than the electronic components. Well the WD Raptors spec wise sure seem the same as the WD scsi drives. Other SATA drives on the other hand are rather different platter densities than scsi drives, so at least something is different in them. You can't buy a 750GB scsi drive. Of course being different doesn't mean that one is necesarily lower quality than the other. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 23:30:49 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 18:30:49 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <20070129230941.GM7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE4955.2020309@rogers.com> <20070129214546.GK7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE6EE8.1030307@rogers.com> <20070129230941.GM7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1170113449.4405.340.camel@stan64.site> Good timing for me for this thread, i have just finished setting up 4 or so servers with 3ware PCI-X 8 and 12 channel sata raid controllers. I was thinking of setting up another involving about 16 drives, and perhaps a read throughput (not buffered) of about 1GB / second, the most i have got with a 8channel (8 drives) is about 500-600 MB/sec, so I am hoping a 16 channel (16 drive) could push me over 1GB/sec transfer. now if i take the linux software approach , I'd have to get about 12 sata channels as a pci-x expansion card (+4 on board). I get the 3ware 16 channel for about 1000$ i wonder how the linux software raid with PCI-X straight sata expansion cards is going to compare with cost and performance to a 3ware 16 channel in a single PCI-X slot? also , having a UPS on a system doing software raid, isnt the equivalent of a battery backup on a 3ware card, you could have a failure between UPS and CPU, or a kernel panic (granted a KP is pretty rare these days). If I can get 1GB/s transfer from a linux software raid sol'n , and its faster and cheaper then the 3ware .... man I am going to consider it!! anyone tried? I am going to hazard a guess that for a array rebuild, the HW raid has got to be preferable? but hopefully one isn't rebuilding to often. -tl On Mon, 2007-01-29 at 18:09 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 05:10:08PM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: > > So what happens in software raid when someone pulls the plug on the > > machine ??? > > Anything still in system ram is lost. > > > and if you want fast cheap hardware RAID controllers check out Areca. > > 1GB optional battery backed up write cache means the answer to the > > above question is nothing bad. > > Anything still in system ram is lost. > > Difference is that you get the ability to do some write caching in > hardware, which you don't get above. Until the OS decides it is time to > write though, both solutions are equal. The battery backed hardware > raid can finish the I/O sooner for the OS though, and not loose it. So > small benefit there. Surprisingly many hardware raid cards don't have > battery backed caches though. > > Besides I have a UPS. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 23:35:09 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 18:35:09 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <20070129230941.GM7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE4955.2020309@rogers.com> <20070129214546.GK7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE6EE8.1030307@rogers.com> <20070129230941.GM7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <57BC6560-B710-4E14-8C9D-2864BB240EFB@visibleassets.com> On 29-Jan-07, at 6:09 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 05:10:08PM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: >> So what happens in software raid when someone pulls the plug on the >> machine ??? > > Anything still in system ram is lost. Anything half written to disk is gone, and possibly the rest of your disk, this is what ext3 and other journalling filesystems are for. But they can still be corrupted. Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 23:07:15 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 18:07:15 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <45BE6EE8.1030307-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE4955.2020309@rogers.com> <20070129214546.GK7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE6EE8.1030307@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070129230715.GL7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 05:02:16PM -0500, Byron Sonne wrote: > Ah, but that wasn't what was originally said ;) > > You said "Linux software raid also has a lot more testing and a larger > user base, than any hardware raid platform will ever have." > > You didn't specify that the 'any hardware raid platform' was linux. With > that admission I would of course have to concur that there's more Linux > software raid users than Linux hardware raid users. Well I don't really care one bit what windows users use. > Yeah, I overstated that ;) Still, well done hardware raid *is* a > superior technical design. Not necessarily cost effective for the > average user, I agree. It is not necesarily more reliable, better performance, or anything else better. Software raid under linux is very good and keeps getting better. In my previous job as a sysadmin, I only starting having raid problems when we went from software to ServeRaid 4M's. That's when we started getting trouble with disks failing, performance got crappy, and maintaining the raid became a lot harder, never mind the cost of the stupid cards. I had expected the raid cards to make life simpler. All they simplified was the boot loader setup. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 29 23:12:30 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 18:12:30 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <45BE76D2.6070308-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE4955.2020309@rogers.com> <20070129214546.GK7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE6EE8.1030307@rogers.com> <45BE76D2.6070308@rogers.com> Message-ID: <07E8BD25-CD19-4F48-B0A6-1091DD258843@visibleassets.com> > > You also have the added advantage that alot (most?) of the enterprise > raid uses scsi for the disks. SCSI drives tend to better built and > hold > up better than ATA (IDE) under the 8000 user type scenario envisioned > above. There's a reason scsi drives cost more ;) I think this statement is less true now than it was in the past. I'll wager that there's no difference on the assembly line between SCSI and SATA drives other than the electronic components. Dave > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 00:07:42 2007 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (david thornton) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 00:07:42 +0000 Subject: Stress Testing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45BE8C4E.2000908@quadratic.net> Randy Jonasz wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I've been given a server at work to "stress test" the hardware. The > server will be used as a java server, running tomcat. Any suggestions > for software to use? I'm currently running memtest86. > > Cheers, > > Randy > you should stress test againt metric that matter to you. I've done a pile of stress testing over time. how many users at the same time? what application? Went you throw in some apache mysql and java ... you need to test under various configs. Test at various levels of concurrency? what are you going to measure? hits per second? transactions per second? Canned tools are good ( memtest , bonnie++ ), but tests for YOUR app are the best. David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 00:08:14 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 19:08:14 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <20070129230715.GL7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE4955.2020309@rogers.com> <20070129214546.GK7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE6EE8.1030307@rogers.com> <20070129230715.GL7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45BE8C6E.4020407@rogers.com> > Well I don't really care one bit what windows users use. And that's what confused me, hehe :) Well, it seems that the world has moved on when it comes to RAID. Thank god, it was too expensive before. tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org, lemme know how the stuff turns out. Cheers, B -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 00:08:38 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 19:08:38 -0500 Subject: [OT] Thunderbird opens urls in new window, not new tab In-Reply-To: <1170113449.4405.340.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE4955.2020309@rogers.com> <20070129214546.GK7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE6EE8.1030307@rogers.com> <20070129230941.GM7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170113449.4405.340.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <45BE8C86.7000905@rogers.com> Hey All, When I click on a link in Thunderbird, it opens it in a whole new firefox window. Instead I want it to open it as a new tab inside the already running firefox instance. I thought that was the default behaviour, I've check the faqs and docs and couldn't find an answer to this question. Also poked around in about:config but didn't see anything amiss. Also checked my preferences for both Thunderbird and Firefox, no luck. Sifted through the various .js files too. It's probably very simple, some handler somewhere is doing something like openURL(URL,new-window) instead of openURL(URL,new-tab) but I dunno where to play with that. Help appreciated! Cheers, B p.s. Lennart loves software raid and wants to make out with it! ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 00:10:42 2007 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (david thornton) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 00:10:42 +0000 Subject: Stress Testing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45BE8D02.7030505@quadratic.net> Randy Jonasz wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I've been given a server at work to "stress test" the hardware. The > server will be used as a java server, running tomcat. Any suggestions > for software to use? I'm currently running memtest86. > > Cheers, > > Randy > Oh and look into tweaking Xms and Xms ... those two variable can have amazing impacts on the health of your java app. David Thornton -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 00:17:03 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 19:17:03 -0500 Subject: Stress Testing In-Reply-To: <45BE8C4E.2000908-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45BE8C4E.2000908@quadratic.net> Message-ID: <45BE8E7F.7090008@rogers.com> >> I've been given a server at work to "stress test" the hardware. The >> server will be used as a java server, running tomcat. Any suggestions >> for software to use? I'm currently running memtest86. If you're just talking about basic 'burn in' and smoke testing the box, I've found that perpetually looping an automated Linux install works pretty good. Alot of i/o, and I like to think that the hardware detection routines flex the peripherals a good bit. That might be wishful thinking though. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 00:31:09 2007 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (david thornton) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 00:31:09 +0000 Subject: Stress Testing In-Reply-To: <45BE8E7F.7090008-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <45BE8C4E.2000908@quadratic.net> <45BE8E7F.7090008@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45BE91CD.7040806@quadratic.net> Byron Sonne wrote: >>>I've been given a server at work to "stress test" the hardware. The >>>server will be used as a java server, running tomcat. Any suggestions >>>for software to use? I'm currently running memtest86. >>> >>> > >If you're just talking about basic 'burn in' and smoke testing the box, >I've found that perpetually looping an automated Linux install works >pretty good. Alot of i/o, and I like to think that the hardware >detection routines flex the peripherals a good bit. That might be >wishful thinking though. >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > I dunno if that's such a good test these days... automated install only take me 55 seconds... yes that's right I actually had to brag about my new personal best for a default server build.... and it was RHEL 4!!!!! Proliant G5 with a single SAS system mirror over 100 meg wee!-thernet... I was flaberghasted when I saw it. now back to you regularly scheduled tech talk. David Thornton -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 01:01:34 2007 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 20:01:34 -0500 Subject: [OT] Thunderbird opens urls in new window, not new tab In-Reply-To: <45BE8C86.7000905-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE4955.2020309@rogers.com> <20070129214546.GK7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE6EE8.1030307@rogers.com> <20070129230941.GM7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170113449.4405.340.camel@stan64.site> <45BE8C86.7000905@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45BE98EE.5080201@the-wire.com> Byron Sonne wrote: > When I click on a link in Thunderbird, it opens it in a whole new > firefox window. Instead I want it to open it as a new tab inside the > already running firefox instance. I thought that was the default behaviour, I forget where I found this. I set the Config Editor entry named network.protocol-handler.app.http to a string giving the path to call up a script which reads #-------------------------------------- #!/bin/sh export MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME="/usr/local/firefox" url="$1" if [ "x$url" = "x" ]; then url="about:blank" fi if $MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME/mozilla-xremote-client openURL\("$url"\); then exit 0 fi exec $MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME/firefox "$url" #-------------------------------------- and that does the trick. Mel. > > I've check the faqs and docs and couldn't find an answer to this > question. Also poked around in about:config but didn't see anything > amiss. Also checked my preferences for both Thunderbird and Firefox, no > luck. Sifted through the various .js files too. > > It's probably very simple, some handler somewhere is doing something > like openURL(URL,new-window) instead of openURL(URL,new-tab) but I dunno > where to play with that. > > Help appreciated! > > Cheers, > B > > p.s. Lennart loves software raid and wants to make out with it! ;) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 02:49:23 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 21:49:23 -0500 Subject: [OT] Thunderbird opens urls in new window, not new tab In-Reply-To: <45BE98EE.5080201-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE4955.2020309@rogers.com> <20070129214546.GK7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE6EE8.1030307@rogers.com> <20070129230941.GM7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170113449.4405.340.camel@stan64.site> <45BE8C86.7000905@rogers.com> <45BE98EE.5080201@the-wire.com> Message-ID: <45BEB233.1020301@rogers.com> > network.protocol-handler.app.http to a string giving the path to call up > a script which reads Yep, that did the trick (I called it openlink.sh) with a few adjustments for paths, and a minor change from: mozilla-xremote-client openURL\("$url"\); To: mozilla-xremote-client -a firefox openURL\("$url",new-tab\) The "-a firefox" definitely has to be there or nothing happens. I also created a new file in my ~/.thunderbird/foobar.default/ called user.js that contains: user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.http", "/home/blsonne/.thunderbird/openlink.sh"); user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.https", "/home/blsonne/.thunderbird/openlink.sh"); user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.ftp", "/home/blsonne/.thunderbird/openlink.sh"); However, I'm not sure about the user.js step and whether it's necessary since I did it before I figured out you had to add the "-a firefox" bit to mozilla-xremote-client. Dude, thanks alot! Glad to have this issue solved. Cheers, B -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 03:48:24 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 22:48:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <20070129231534.GN7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE4955.2020309@rogers.com> <20070129214546.GK7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE6EE8.1030307@rogers.com> <45BE76D2.6070308@rogers.com> <20070129231534.GN7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | > That's one the things I loved about the cpqarray (or wtf they were | > called) type cards. Battery backed up cache like you mentioned, saved | > our arses a couple times. | > | > I'm also fundamentally opposed to any device that cheaps out by using | > the host CPU. To me the idea reeks just like a winmodem. I don't care if | > there's cycles to spare; the idea just flat out bothers me. It's wrong | > like Windows is wrong. IMO it kinda goes against part of the Unix | > philosophy too: do one thing and do it well. | | But what if your 3GHz CPU does XOR better than the dedicated chip on the | card? Now if you are running a database server which has things to do | with the CPU, then sure offload the XOR to a dedicated chip, but | otherwise, if you are running a fileserver only, perhaps you would | rather have faster performance. How one "feels" about these solutions ought to be analyzed. Here are some of my thoughts. Specialized hardware has often proven to be on the wrong curve compared with general-purpose hardware. The design cycles of Raid controllers seem to be longer than CPU design cycles. So you end up with dedicated hardware being slower than general purpose hardware. And being able to handle less memory. And having memory cost more. the economies of scale favour the general purpose most times. In fact, that logic is what inspired the development of RAID in the first place: taking a collection of Inexpensive (mass-market, small, cheap) Disks and making a Reliable system from them. An ARM on a controller board may well cost the same as a x86 CPU in your main computer. There is no question which provides more crunch per dollar. Winmodems were a bad idea (I think) for a few reasons: - real-time is really needed for a modem. General purpose OSes are bad are true real-time. (Note: realtime does not mean fast average response, it requires guaranteed low latency.) - the interface to the winmodem hardware was never documented in public documents. So no open source drivers were developed. (If I'm wrong, I'm not wrong about the vast majority of the winmodems.) - Even if the hardware were open, I suspect that each modem might expose a wildly different interface. This makes it unrewarding to write open-source drivers None of these reasons apply in the case of RAID. On the other hand, Linux has a monolithic kernel -- no internal firewalls. Problems in one part of the kernel can cause other parts to break. Hardware RAID *may* provide a useful firewall between the RAID implementation and the rest of the OS. Linux's development is somewhat chaotic. Perhaps a stable hardware RAID controller makes an important part of the system more stable. I'd feel surer of that if the interface between raid and the OS were file-based, not block based. Linux's IDE stack has a bad reputation. So bad, that SATA uses a new stack, as I understand it. SCSI is different too. I have heard lots of stories that give me doubts about this stuff. One long-term problem is that error conditions don't flow up the stack properly. Maybe a BSD system would be a safer choice. I don't know -- I'm talking about reputation. Dedicated hardware allows some mechanisms that are not widely available in the mass market. Stable memory with-RAM-like characteristics has been proposed for a long time but isn't widely available. RAID-board stable cache can be done unilaterally by the board maker. Perhaps MS's new support for "hybrid disks" will fill this gap (but flash probably doesn't allow enough write cycles to do this). UPS is good, but perhaps not good enough. A kernel crash for any reason, not just a disk driver failure, puts the integrity at risk. So-called hardware RAID controllers are actually software too. Just the other side of the interface. That software can be buggy. And very hard to debug. And with no user-serviceable parts. I'm a perfectionist. I'm not satisfied with the quality of Linux software. But I've been less impressed by much commercial software and firmware. I cannot speak to the quality of RAID firmware. Case in point: I bought a Linksys WRV200 VPN router perhaps six months ago. Horrible bugs are being worked through with new firmware releases. The router is getting close to useful now, in my estimation. Recently an awesomely bad security bug was revealed in this as well as all other Linksys products with QuickVPN(TM): all use the same private key to authenticate administration, a key that can be easily extracted from the distributed firmware. How many other bone-headed things are in the firmware? (Apparently QuickVPN cannot be turned off.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zuzhihui-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 06:10:32 2007 From: zuzhihui-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zu Zhihui) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 14:10:32 +0800 Subject: billions of files, ext3, reiser, and ls -al In-Reply-To: References: <45BE4B8F.8030309@rogers.com> Message-ID: <64360a0d0701292210i5c1a38b4y2669b1e40e8b77bc@mail.gmail.com> 2007/1/30, Chris F.A. Johnson : > > On Mon, 29 Jan 2007, Byron Sonne wrote: > > > When I had a dir with a proverbial billion files in it, under reiser an > > ls -al would throw an error like 'too many arguments'. I reinstalled my > > system last night, converted to ext3, and now ls -al doesn't throw and > > error anymore. > > > > If one were a betting person, would you be inclined to think the success > > is due to (1) new file system or (2) modifications to the ls program? I think the reason is neither (1) nor (2). It's caused by glibc. If you modify glibc and re-compile the ls program, it should be ok. More likely you used a different command. If you just do 'ls -al', > you would not get 'too many arguments'. If you do 'ls -al *' you > will. Agree -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 06:30:51 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 01:30:51 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <20070129185830.GJ7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200701300130.51784.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Monday 29 January 2007 13:58, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > My experience has been that software raid performed a lot better (maybe > the hardware raid cards weren't very good). It is certainly easier to > manage hardware raid in terms of booting and such, but not much else. Is there any circumstance where software RAID supports hot-swap? For me hot-swap is the big win on hardware RAID side, trying to get downtime to replace a failed disk is not always easy. > Reliability is probably also identical. Easier to fix software raid > than to get bugs in raid controller firmware fixed too. Linux software > raid also has a lot more testing and a larger user base, than any > hardware raid platform will ever have. I wouldn't be surprised if Linux software RAID is more reliable, I have seen some pretty horrendous bugs in hardware RAID (and heard of worse than I've seen). Usually the problems were on fairly bleeding edge equipment though. Compaq's SmartArray is one controller that I'm quite comfortable with, haven't seen major issues there. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 08:18:05 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 03:18:05 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <200701300130.51784.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200701300130.51784.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <7ac602420701300018o666c6222te9e1970a6b9aabec@mail.gmail.com> > Is there any circumstance where software RAID supports hot-swap? For me > hot-swap is the big win on hardware RAID side, trying to get downtime to > replace a failed disk is not always easy. I believe so, yes. There are ways to instruct a software RAID array to run in "degraded mode" (can't remember how, offhand--maybe with mdadm?). So, supposing your hardware supports hot-swapping, you can turn-off the target disk in software, hot-swap according to your hardware's protocol, and then turn the target, swapped disk back on. Once the swap is complete, the RAID array will start rebuilding in the background. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 08:20:19 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 03:20:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: billions of files, ext3, reiser, and ls -aly In-Reply-To: <64360a0d0701292210i5c1a38b4y2669b1e40e8b77bc-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <45BE4B8F.8030309@rogers.com> <64360a0d0701292210i5c1a38b4y2669b1e40e8b77bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, Zu Zhihui wrote: > 2007/1/30, Chris F.A. Johnson : >> >> On Mon, 29 Jan 2007, Byron Sonne wrote: >> >> > When I had a dir with a proverbial billion files in it, under reiser an >> > ls -al would throw an error like 'too many arguments'. I reinstalled my >> > system last night, converted to ext3, and now ls -al doesn't throw and >> > error anymore. >> > >> > If one were a betting person, would you be inclined to think the success >> > is due to (1) new file system or (2) modifications to the ls program? > > I think the reason is neither (1) nor (2). It's caused by glibc. If you > modify glibc and re-compile the ls program, it should be ok. If the command is 'ls -al' you will not get a 'too many arguments' error, because there are not too many arguments; there are none besides the options. If you use 'ls -al *' you may, and it depends on the system (glibc may be part of it) and how many arguments (and possibly the maximum length of the arguments). > More likely you used a different command. If you just do 'ls -al', >> you would not get 'too many arguments'. If you do 'ls -al *' you >> will. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 15:14:33 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:14:33 -0500 Subject: billions of files, ext3, reiser, and ls -aly In-Reply-To: References: <45BE4B8F.8030309@rogers.com> <64360a0d0701292210i5c1a38b4y2669b1e40e8b77bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070130151433.GS7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 03:20:19AM -0500, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > If the command is 'ls -al' you will not get a 'too many arguments' > error, because there are not too many arguments; there are none > besides the options. If you use 'ls -al *' you may, and it depends > on the system (glibc may be part of it) and how many arguments (and > possibly the maximum length of the arguments). The shell will have a command line limit usually. I think older versions of bash it was 32768 characters, but I think it is more like 128000 now. Not sure. I almost never exceed it, and when I do I know how to use find and xargs. Almost certainly the limit depends on the libc, the version of the shell, and various other factors. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 15:12:29 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:12:29 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <200701300130.51784.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200701300130.51784.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20070130151229.GR7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 01:30:51AM -0500, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Is there any circumstance where software RAID supports hot-swap? For me > hot-swap is the big win on hardware RAID side, trying to get downtime to > replace a failed disk is not always easy. If the hardware supports hotswap, then yes it can. You have to tell it to stop using a disk before yanking it (not a problem usually if it already failed, you just tell the raid to stop using it), then swap the drive, and tell the raid to start using the new one. I have done that with hotswap scsi drives hotswap backplanes before running on adaptec 2940 series controllers. SATA hotswap is finally starting to get finished in the kernel now, so that you can actually take advantage of the fact most SATA controllers (and all sata devices) are supposed to allow hotswap. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 15:05:31 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:05:31 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: <1170113449.4405.340.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <20070129143021.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE4955.2020309@rogers.com> <20070129214546.GK7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE6EE8.1030307@rogers.com> <20070129230941.GM7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170113449.4405.340.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <20070130150531.GP7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 06:30:49PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > Good timing for me for this thread, > > i have just finished setting up 4 or so servers with 3ware PCI-X 8 and > 12 channel sata raid controllers. > > I was thinking of setting up another involving about 16 drives, > and perhaps a read throughput (not buffered) of about 1GB / second, > the most i have got with a 8channel (8 drives) is about 500-600 MB/sec, > so I am hoping a 16 channel (16 drive) could push me over 1GB/sec > transfer. Hmm, the theoretical bandwidth of PCI-X (The 133MHz 64bit kind), is only a little over 1GB/s. Of course with overhead there is no way you could get transfers that high. Myabe 800MB/s, but even that could be pushing it. 500-600MB/s is rather amazing already. If you want more you need PCI express. > now if i take the linux software approach , I'd have to get > about 12 sata channels as a pci-x expansion card (+4 on board). > I get the 3ware 16 channel for about 1000$ > > i wonder how the linux software raid with PCI-X straight sata expansion > cards is going to compare with cost and performance to a > 3ware 16 channel in a single PCI-X slot? I doubt there are any PCI-X sata cards that aren't raid cards. Most simple sata cards are just 2 or 4 ports on plain PCI. > also , having a UPS on a system doing software raid, isnt the equivalent > of a battery backup on a 3ware card, > you could have a failure between UPS and CPU, or a kernel panic > (granted a KP is pretty rare these days). > > If I can get 1GB/s transfer from a linux software raid sol'n , > and its faster and cheaper then the 3ware .... man I am going to > consider it!! > anyone tried? Well getting controllers with that many channels pretty much means 3ware anyhow. :) I also don't know what the cpu load is for running 16 drives in raid5 or raid6, even with sse based raid code. Of course if you have independant busses for controllers, software raid would be able to span multiple controllers and potentially gain speed that way, although software raid does have the overhead of transfering all the data including parity and also reading parity for doing updates, where as the hardware raid only has to transfer the data, with the parity handled on the card. So if you are bus bandwidth starved, the hardware raid does have an advantage, except it can't span controllers (well maybe some controllers can, I don't think I have seen any that could though). > I am going to hazard a guess that for a array rebuild, the HW raid has > got to be preferable? but hopefully one isn't rebuilding to often. The hardware raid is probably a bit easier to rebuild (usually just stick in the drive, whereas software raid you have to tell it to add the new drive before it will rebuild). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 15:10:09 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:10:09 -0500 Subject: Nice looking 'disk array' In-Reply-To: References: <92ee967a0701290911t6396d3b8g65335f9efca1dccf@mail.gmail.com> <45BE4010.4000901@rogers.com> <20070129185830.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE4955.2020309@rogers.com> <20070129214546.GK7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BE6EE8.1030307@rogers.com> <45BE76D2.6070308@rogers.com> <20070129231534.GN7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070130151009.GQ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 10:48:24PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Linux's IDE stack has a bad reputation. So bad, that SATA uses a new > stack, as I understand it. SCSI is different too. I have heard lots > of stories that give me doubts about this stuff. One long-term > problem is that error conditions don't flow up the stack properly. > Maybe a BSD system would be a safer choice. I don't know -- I'm > talking about reputation. In fact as of 2.6.18 (as far as I recall), there is a parallel ata interface using the same ata stack as the serial ata drivers use to replace the old ide subsystem. As a result if you use the new drivers (the old ones are still there too) you get all your disk showing up as /dev/sd* -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 17:33:04 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:33:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: billions of files, ext3, reiser, and ls -aly In-Reply-To: <20070130151433.GS7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <45BE4B8F.8030309@rogers.com> <64360a0d0701292210i5c1a38b4y2669b1e40e8b77bc@mail.gmail.com> <20070130151433.GS7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 03:20:19AM -0500, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> If the command is 'ls -al' you will not get a 'too many arguments' >> error, because there are not too many arguments; there are none >> besides the options. If you use 'ls -al *' you may, and it depends >> on the system (glibc may be part of it) and how many arguments (and >> possibly the maximum length of the arguments). > > The shell will have a command line limit usually. I think older > versions of bash it was 32768 characters, but I think it is more like > 128000 now. Not sure. I almost never exceed it, and when I do I know > how to use find and xargs. Almost certainly the limit depends on the > libc, the version of the shell, and various other factors. The shell's limit depends on available memory. I've had command lines with a million arguments and millions of characters. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 19:01:02 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 14:01:02 -0500 Subject: billions of files, ext3, reiser, and ls -aly In-Reply-To: References: <45BE4B8F.8030309@rogers.com> <64360a0d0701292210i5c1a38b4y2669b1e40e8b77bc@mail.gmail.com> <20070130151433.GS7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45BF95EE.5020301@rogers.com> Gah, I'm a dingus :) Whoever suggested "ls -al" vs "ls -al *" was correct. I can't believe I didn't notice that. Now if you'll excuse me... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From manimotomushi-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 20:31:50 2007 From: manimotomushi-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Manimoto Mushi) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 15:31:50 -0500 Subject: Please ignore - this is a test Message-ID: _________________________________________________________________ Free Alerts??: Be smart - let your information find you??! http://alerts.live.com/Alerts/Default.aspx -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 21:56:52 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 30 Jan 2007 16:56:52 -0500 Subject: Looking for Alan Rocker In-Reply-To: <456D9583.9090508-J8gUg58EjS5Wk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <456D9583.9090508@vincefry.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, If you're still on this list, please send me an e-mail to . Thanks and sorry for bothering everyone else. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From manimotomushi-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 22:13:26 2007 From: manimotomushi-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Manimoto Mushi) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:13:26 -0500 Subject: Linux+Seamonkey+Sympatico Problem Message-ID: Hi all: I just joined this list and need help with a sympatico.ca related problem. Before posting this though I did review the mail-list archive and noticed that what I thought was a new problem is actually a few years old. Problem is as follows: A friend of mine in Quebec who uses Slackware 11.0 has for many years been a sympatico user with no problems receiving or sending email. A few weeks ago she found that she could not connect to her mail servers. After many calls to tech support we realized that their new email server POP: pophm.sympatico.ca and SMPT: smpthm.sympatico.ca may be blocking access by any email client other than Outlook. We first tried the new conf parameters in Seamonkey on Linux. We could only receive email NOT send. Then we tried the same info as we put in Outlook (which does work) in the Windows XP version of Seamonkey with *exactly* the same results as on the Linux side - can only receive not send mail. Is anyone out there successfully using the "hm" servers with Mozilla, Seamonkey, or even Thunderbird in Linux??? If so *please* share your secrets! How did you do it!. We have even tried to connect to smpt1 but this just fails to connect. Someone had suggested putting some kind of sniffer to see what transpires between Outlook and the servers. Has anyone done this? Does anyone know what the problem really is even though it may not be solvable? I mean it really looks like at the server side they are not allowing anything but Outlook to connect which is discrimination...no? Anyone out there a lawyer :-) Thanks for any help you can pass one. _________________________________________________________________ Buy what you want when you want it on Sympatico / MSN Shopping http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca/content/shp/?ctId=2,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=081805 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 22:31:04 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:31:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: new Rogers terms of service Message-ID: I just got a new "terms of service" from Rogers. It is now unified to cover all Rogers services. Things that I noted in my first quick glance. This document doesn't seem to be online. Definition: "Equipment" means any device, equipment or hardware used to access the Services or used in conjunction with the Services, including any SIM (Subscriber Identity Module) card. This definition catches things I own, not just Rogers' property. That makes a lot of things very wrong in the sequel. 14. You may not use the Services for anything other than your own personal use. You may not resell the Services, receive any charge or benefit for the use of the Services or provide internet access or any other feature of the Services to any third party. You may not share or transfer your Services without our express consent. a. the internet is about sharing. Is a web server sharing my Service when it sends a message to me?? b. does that mean that the rest of my household (family) cannot use the internet? Summary: I think that this is overreaching. 19. ... We may also access or preserve content or information to comply with legal process in Canada or foreign jurisdictions, ... Notice the word "foreign". This is inappropriate and unacceptible. 51. [WRT Television Services] Only one television or FM receiver may be attached to any outlet. ... Does this prohibit VCRs, PVRs, etc? 52. You may use the Equipment only at the service address identified on your account. Surely only if Rogers owns the Equipment! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 22:28:55 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:28:55 -0500 Subject: Linux+Seamonkey+Sympatico Problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45BFC6A7.7070209@alteeve.com> Manimoto Mushi wrote: > Hi all: > > I just joined this list and need help with a sympatico.ca related > problem. Before posting this though I did review the mail-list archive > and noticed that what I thought was a new problem is actually a few > years old. > > Problem is as follows: > A friend of mine in Quebec who uses Slackware 11.0 has for many years > been a sympatico user with no problems receiving or sending email. A few > weeks ago she found that she could not connect to her mail servers. > After many calls to tech support we realized that their new email server > POP: pophm.sympatico.ca and SMPT: smpthm.sympatico.ca may be blocking > access by any email client other than Outlook. We first tried the new > conf parameters in Seamonkey on Linux. We could only receive email NOT > send. Then we tried the same info as we put in Outlook (which does work) > in the Windows XP version of Seamonkey with *exactly* the same results > as on the Linux side - can only receive not send mail. > > Is anyone out there successfully using the "hm" servers with Mozilla, > Seamonkey, or even Thunderbird in Linux??? > > If so *please* share your secrets! How did you do it!. We have even > tried to connect to smpt1 but this just fails to connect. > > Someone had suggested putting some kind of sniffer to see what > transpires between Outlook and the servers. Has anyone done this? Does > anyone know what the problem really is even though it may not be > solvable? I mean it really looks like at the server side they are not > allowing anything but Outlook to connect which is discrimination...no? > Anyone out there a lawyer :-) > > Thanks for any help you can pass one. I can't say I know what is happening, but try, as a test, setting the SMTP server to 'smtp1.sympatico.ca'. I've used that in many places (residential and business) in Ontario and New Brunswick without a problem. HTH! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 22:51:06 2007 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:51:06 -0500 Subject: Linux+Seamonkey+Sympatico Problem Message-ID: <45BFCBDA.6000303@rogers.com> In order to use the new Sympatico servers, you have to select the "use TLS if available" option in Thunderbird for both incoming and outgoing connections. Since Sea Monkey is a continuation of the old Mozilla suite you should find this option in its account config panels. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From manimotomushi-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 22:51:24 2007 From: manimotomushi-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Manimoto Mushi) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:51:24 -0500 Subject: Linux+Seamonkey+Sympatico Problem In-Reply-To: <45BFC6A7.7070209-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45BFC6A7.7070209@alteeve.com> Message-ID: >I can't say I know what is happening, but try, as a test, setting the SMTP >server to 'smtp1.sympatico.ca'. I've used that in many places (residential >and business) in Ontario and New Brunswick without a problem. > >HTH! > >Madi Thanks Madi. We did try that as my post mentioned. smtp1 requires non-SSL connections. We tried that. How are you getting it to work? At first we tried the "right" params... Outgoing server name: smtp1.sympatico.ca Use username and password authentication: yes Use SSL: no Then we tried all other combinations and nothing doing. I actually live in Toronto and my friend is in Quebec so after many nights of helping her over the phone I have all of the Seamonkey and Outlook setup dialog boxes imprinted in my brain :-) For me it has to be one of the following reasons: a) Outlook communicates in some way that is not standard SMTP protocol and that sympatico takes advantage of that. b) There is a difference between Outlook's implementation of SSL and others that sympatico relies on. c) The GCCP (i.e. the global consortium of conspiracy practitioners) is at it again. An idea I had was to see if I could find a mail client that lets one change the agent header. then try to masquerade as Outlook and see what happens... thanks & cheers. _________________________________________________________________ Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 22:49:09 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:49:09 -0500 Subject: new Rogers terms of service In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200701301749.09420.softquake@gmail.com> On Tuesday 30 January 2007 17:31, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > 14. You may not use the Services for anything other than your own > personal use. You may not resell the Services, receive any charge or > benefit for the use of the Services or provide internet access or any > other feature of the Services to any third party. You may not share > or transfer your Services without our express consent. > > a. the internet is about sharing. Is a web server sharing my Service > when it sends a message to me?? > > b. does that mean that the rest of my household (family) cannot use the > internet? They probably mean sharing the bandwidth. But who knows... > Summary: I think that this is overreaching. > > > 19. ... We may also access or preserve content or information to > comply with legal process in Canada or foreign jurisdictions, ... > > Notice the word "foreign". This is inappropriate and unacceptible. Absolutely, this is not only "inappropriate" but unacceptable. Is it legal at all to surrender Canadians rights ? This point sounds sick entirely and I would not be surprised if it is illegal. > 51. [WRT Television Services] Only one television or FM receiver may be > attached to any outlet. ... > > Does this prohibit VCRs, PVRs, etc? I do not know ;) I decided to not use these large devil companies long ago. Well... right now I do use... temporarily, in some limited way... > 52. You may use the Equipment only at the service address identified > on your account. > > Surely only if Rogers owns the Equipment! ;) zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 23:02:42 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:02:42 -0500 Subject: Linux+Seamonkey+Sympatico Problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45BFCE92.1060402@alteeve.com> Manimoto Mushi wrote: >> I can't say I know what is happening, but try, as a test, setting the >> SMTP server to 'smtp1.sympatico.ca'. I've used that in many places >> (residential and business) in Ontario and New Brunswick without a >> problem. >> >> HTH! >> >> Madi > > Thanks Madi. We did try that as my post mentioned. > smtp1 requires non-SSL connections. We tried that. How are you getting > it to work? > > At first we tried the "right" params... > Outgoing server name: smtp1.sympatico.ca > Use username and password authentication: yes > Use SSL: no Try not passing the username. I don't use SSL or even have an account with sympatico any more (though I am on Bell networks) and I don't have a problem. I'm also using seamonkey on Debian testing (Etch). -=-=-=- Description: server name: smtp1.sympatico.ca Port: 25 Use name and password: Use secure connection: No -=-=-=- HTH Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 23:06:05 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:06:05 -0500 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? Message-ID: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> Hi there, My girlfriend is buying a new computer a month or two from now and I'm hoping to convince her to let me install ubuntu feisty on it, and set up a windows VM using the new KVM module and rdesktop. The idea of the VM is to let her use software she feels she 'really needs' -- right now, this is MS Office, endnote and Dreamweaver (I'd like to make all 3 disappear, but that's another, longer-term project). Her main objection right now is that the person trying to convince her is a known linux ideologue who spends hours at a time hacking on his machine, and that she has no interest whatsoever in hacking -- she just wants her computer to work for her in a fully transparent way. So I am looking for stories from people who have done this successfully, and if possible some web postings that explain how easy it is to do, who transparently it works, and how happy customers are when they get a look at the superior OS which is GNUlinux (or ubuntu, or gentoo, or debian, or whatever). cross-posting to the 3 communities I sort of belong to (ubuntu, debian, toronto lug), sorry if you get multiple copies. Thanks loads! Looking forward to lots of success stories, Matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 23:06:20 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:06:20 -0500 Subject: mythtv -- export to mpeg/burn to dvd? In-Reply-To: <20070125151919.GG7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1169686203.5733.28.camel@localhost> <20070125151919.GG7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1170198380.6784.20.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 10:19 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 07:50:03PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I run mythtv 0.18 under ubuntu breezy on a low-end dell with a Hauppauge > > pvr-350 -- t all works great for me and I have not noticed any missing > > features.. > > > > however, I'm now getting requests from people to 'tape something for me' > > -- e.g., my brother wants us to tape Mr Rogers for his 2-year-old, and > > occasionally something's on the news that some neighbour wants > > recorded. > > > > so, question: is there an easy way to flag a bunch of recordings in > > mythtv, perhaps rip them to xvid or mpeg4, then burn them to a dvd? > > THis would all have to be done either through the mythtv interface, or > > on the command line; this machine has nothing attached to the onboard > > vga-out. And it would be nice if it could be done in a pretty > > straightforward way -- set a bunch of preferences, make sure that the > > the file has been flagged for commercials, then transcode to a > > reasonable file name. For some shows I'd probably do it as a cron job. > > > > looking around, it seems like nuvexport is the preferred tool for this. > > does anyone use nuvexport in approximately the way I describe? Or > > ocmbine it with some ad hoc scripts? WOuld love to hear the experience > > of others. > > mytharchive (new in mythtv 0.20) does exactly that. It is great. > thanks to both you guys, and sorry for the delay in responding. when I have a chance I think I'll add a new partition to the lvm, upgrade to 0.20, and fool around with everything to make sure it works... I will be crucified if I botch up our mythtv set up as it's the only technical project in our house that anyone ELSE uses... matt > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 23:27:22 2007 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:27:22 -0500 Subject: Linux+Seamonkey+Sympatico Problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200701301827.23261.ican@netrover.com> I believe the "hm" in the Sympatico server names refers to "Hotmail" as in outsourced to ... Enough said. My experience with this problem is that it is not a Linux issue, it is at least an open source standards issue. A few months back I tried unsuccessfully to connect several Windows + Thunderbird configurations to Sympatico without any success (2 were in the GTA and one in Montreal). The only advice I could gleen from asking around at that time was that the Norton anti virus package and Thunderbird plus Sympatico were an unhappy combination because at least one person I know got his Windows-Thunderbird-Sympatico configuration to work by swapping the Norton anti virus for the AVG package. Didn't make sense to me, but then things on Windows rarely do. Both GTA Window's users switched providers and were able to use their Thunderbird email happily. The Montreal user went back to Outlook. I wish I could convince someone with the expertise to put a TCP/IP packet trace on the Sympatico/Hotmail-email client interaction. In particular it would be interesting to compare the packets for Outlook vs. Thunderbird for the same account on the same Sympatico account. While I suspect the SSL will "mess up" the scientific comparison, I think there would be a good story in the embrace and extinguish tweek that our friends and Hotmail have apparently done to SSL and TLS "standards" to allow only Outlook to work. bob On Tuesday 30 January 2007 05:51 pm, Manimoto Mushi wrote: > >I can't say I know what is happening, but try, as a test, setting the SMTP > >server to 'smtp1.sympatico.ca'. I've used that in many places (residential > >and business) in Ontario and New Brunswick without a problem. > > > >HTH! > > > >Madi > > Thanks Madi. We did try that as my post mentioned. > smtp1 requires non-SSL connections. We tried that. How are you getting it > to work? > > At first we tried the "right" params... > Outgoing server name: smtp1.sympatico.ca > Use username and password authentication: yes > Use SSL: no > > Then we tried all other combinations and nothing doing. I actually live in > Toronto and my friend is in Quebec so after many nights of helping her over > the phone I have all of the Seamonkey and Outlook setup dialog boxes > imprinted in my brain :-) > > For me it has to be one of the following reasons: > a) Outlook communicates in some way that is not standard SMTP protocol and > that sympatico takes advantage of that. > b) There is a difference between Outlook's implementation of SSL and others > that sympatico relies on. > c) The GCCP (i.e. the global consortium of conspiracy practitioners) is at > it again. > > An idea I had was to see if I could find a mail client that lets one change > the agent header. > then try to masquerade as Outlook and see what happens... > > thanks & cheers. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live > Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 23:24:36 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:24:36 -0500 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20070130232436.GT7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 06:06:05PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > My girlfriend is buying a new computer a month or two from now and I'm > hoping to convince her to let me install ubuntu feisty on it, and set up > a windows VM using the new KVM module and rdesktop. The idea of the VM > is to let her use software she feels she 'really needs' -- right now, > this is MS Office, endnote and Dreamweaver (I'd like to make all 3 > disappear, but that's another, longer-term project). Remember KVM _requires_ a CPU with hardware virtualization instructions. Not all CPUs have that. None of mine do so I certainly can't try it out. :) > Her main objection right now is that the person trying to convince her > is a known linux ideologue who spends hours at a time hacking on his > machine, and that she has no interest whatsoever in hacking -- she just > wants her computer to work for her in a fully transparent way. Another option is vmware, although that may be too much trouble to use as well. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 23:25:37 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:25:37 -0500 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200701301825.37846.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Tuesday 30 January 2007 18:06, Matt Price wrote: > My girlfriend is buying a new computer a month or two from now and I'm > hoping to convince her to let me install ubuntu feisty on it, and set up > a windows VM using the new KVM module and rdesktop. The idea of the VM > is to let her use software she feels she 'really needs' -- right now, > this is MS Office, endnote and Dreamweaver (I'd like to make all 3 > disappear, but that's another, longer-term project). The last time I tried KVM (probably release 5) Windows was very sluggish under it. One very noticeable problem was that the clock ran way too fast (minutes going by in seconds). If your machine is capable of running KVM then it should also be capable of running Xen. My experience with running Windows under Xen has been very good (no noticeable slowdown in either dom0 or the Windows VM), I am using ubuntu and the default Xen packages provided in edgy. I prefer the idea of KVM (especially on a laptop) and it's developing rapidly so I would expect it to be a good solution before too long - I doubt it's there yet. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 23:26:50 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:26:50 -0500 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <200701301825.37846.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <200701301825.37846.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20070130232650.GU7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 06:25:37PM -0500, Fraser Campbell wrote: > The last time I tried KVM (probably release 5) Windows was very sluggish under > it. One very noticeable problem was that the clock ran way too fast (minutes > going by in seconds). Wasn't KVM just merged like a few weeks ago? How can it be release 5 already? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 23:35:17 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:35:17 -0500 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1170200117.4405.425.camel@stan64.site> I went down this road, I installed SLED for my wife and she was ok with evolution email and firefox, but then "rock star supernova" and the other one, there web site used windows only codec's and the bastards (MS was tied to the production i think via MSNBC or something) they even had a chat board that wouldnt let you in unless you were using MS OS. Now supposedly with fluendo the MS media BS should be a thing of the past. Her Kodak digital camera worked right away with SLED10, as did her mp3 player. Actually the kodak camera worked MUCH better on the Linux SLED then on windows or Mac(OSX 10.4) (which i am selling now, because compiz/beryl just so put it to shame). The kodak software for the mac and windows was just basic stuff, where as with SLED you were fully hookedup. The HP all in one printer sucked for support, i have a parallel interface, and linux seems to want USB for best support, but i did get it working in SLED10. The only issue now is that some web sites (like she is doing a Canadian passport application) and she even tried on a friends MAC with no luck, apparently thats a MS OS only site (havnt tried it myself), so i set up a VMWARE in SLED10 and now she can do online passport, and anything IE only related. She uses open office for xls/doc compat. with no issues. So she basically is 98% linux, and 2% MS when the need. the 2% MS venture is only because some yoodles have no idea about how to put up web content to be not-MS only. Training need to run linux/SLED was zero, just jumped right in an rocked. But then i did futz with the HP printer however, she would be printerless still to this day if it was just her working the SLED. the experienced did make me realize that until Linux can make sure 99% of popular printer out there are going to work and work by installation by any old brain dead user, Linux isn't quite ready to replace MS for everyone, but man its close for most. Your girl friends success is going to depend alot on what version of linux you use and her hardware. SLED is sweet, but I did drop 50$, but then i run it on a few machines :) I hear ubuntu isn't half bad so hopefully it works out for you. I WOULDNT advice VMWARE on WIN host with LINUX guest, in my experiencs of late in projects deplying VMWARE on windows to run linux, i had to abort, the Hi there, > > My girlfriend is buying a new computer a month or two from now and I'm > hoping to convince her to let me install ubuntu feisty on it, and set up > a windows VM using the new KVM module and rdesktop. The idea of the VM > is to let her use software she feels she 'really needs' -- right now, > this is MS Office, endnote and Dreamweaver (I'd like to make all 3 > disappear, but that's another, longer-term project). > > Her main objection right now is that the person trying to convince her > is a known linux ideologue who spends hours at a time hacking on his > machine, and that she has no interest whatsoever in hacking -- she just > wants her computer to work for her in a fully transparent way. > > So I am looking for stories from people who have done this successfully, > and if possible some web postings that explain how easy it is to do, who > transparently it works, and how happy customers are when they get a look > at the superior OS which is GNUlinux (or ubuntu, or gentoo, or debian, > or whatever). cross-posting to the 3 communities I sort of belong to > (ubuntu, debian, toronto lug), sorry if you get multiple copies. > > Thanks loads! Looking forward to lots of success stories, > > Matt > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 30 23:50:58 2007 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:50:58 -0500 Subject: billions of files, ext3, reiser, and ls -aly In-Reply-To: <20070130151433.GS7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <45BE4B8F.8030309@rogers.com> <64360a0d0701292210i5c1a38b4y2669b1e40e8b77bc@mail.gmail.com> <20070130151433.GS7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45BFD9E2.3080601@sympatico.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 03:20:19AM -0500, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > >> If the command is 'ls -al' you will not get a 'too many arguments' >> error, because there are not too many arguments; there are none >> besides the options. If you use 'ls -al *' you may, and it depends >> on the system (glibc may be part of it) and how many arguments (and >> possibly the maximum length of the arguments). >> >> > >The shell will have a command line limit usually. I think older >versions of bash it was 32768 characters, but I think it is more like >128000 now. Not sure. I almost never exceed it, and when I do I know >how to use find and xargs. Almost certainly the limit depends on the >libc, the version of the shell, and various other factors. > >-- >Len Sorensen > I just ran into a similar problem trying to delete a bunch of unwanted files (cache for various programs mainly). In one case, there was a huge quantity of files in the directory and a 'rm -f ./*' gave me an error of too many arguments. I had to do it in chunks such as 'rm -f ./*.png' etc, grouping as many files together as possible. Should I have done this with a different command? John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 01:15:54 2007 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 20:15:54 -0500 Subject: billions of files, ext3, reiser, and ls -aly In-Reply-To: <45BFD9E2.3080601-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <45BE4B8F.8030309@rogers.com> <64360a0d0701292210i5c1a38b4y2669b1e40e8b77bc@mail.gmail.com> <20070130151433.GS7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BFD9E2.3080601@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20070131011554.GL10225@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 06:50:58PM -0500, John Moniz wrote: > I just ran into a similar problem trying to delete a bunch of unwanted > files (cache for various programs mainly). In one case, there was a huge > quantity of files in the directory and a 'rm -f ./*' gave me an error of > too many arguments. I had to do it in chunks such as 'rm -f ./*.png' > etc, grouping as many files together as possible. Should I have done > this with a different command? Using: find . -print | xargs rm would do it in one shot (as long as you really want to delete everything in the current directory and there are no sub-directories - there are other variants to deal with those cases). -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 00:03:17 2007 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (david thornton) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 00:03:17 +0000 Subject: Before I start NFS RTFM, will NFS handle this problem? In-Reply-To: <45B95078.9000009-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <45B95078.9000009@knet.ca> Message-ID: <45BFDCC5.6040305@quadratic.net> I'd go so far as to say: Dood: that's what NFS is for! Like Dood! David Teddy David Mills wrote: > I am wasting a lot of diskspace by keeping multiple copies of the same > data on different servers. > > for example: > On CENTOS is my music collection and gallery2 picture database. > I would like to move this data (and all the data I have) onto the > FreeNAS1 server. > But I have to tell CENTOS, to mount/map the remote FreeNAS1 > directories to a various local directories; as if was local on Centos. > (even though the data will only exist on the remote FreeNAS1 server) > > > > background data... > > I am using two FreeNAS servers FREENAS1 and FREENAS2. > I back up FreeNAS1 to FreeNAS2 with rsync. > Thus I have a valid backup of all data. > > Today's idea is to move EVERYTHING I have onto FreeNAS1. (currently 70GB) > > If I move everything onto FreeNAS1, then I have to tell my other linux > servers to map FreeNAS directories and have them appear as local to > that filesystem. > I am not sure if this is what NFS is meant to do. If this is what NFS > can do, then full speed ahead. > > btw, > FreeNAS has a NFS setup tab. I would image I would have to make the > other linux servers as NFS clients. > If this works, it will save me 100's of GB's, a LOT of admin work, > and all I have to do is keep dropping more stuff into FreeNAS1. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 00:31:46 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:31:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: billions of files, ext3, reiser, and ls -aly In-Reply-To: <45BFD9E2.3080601-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <45BE4B8F.8030309@rogers.com> <64360a0d0701292210i5c1a38b4y2669b1e40e8b77bc@mail.gmail.com> <20070130151433.GS7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BFD9E2.3080601@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, John Moniz wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 03:20:19AM -0500, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> >> > If the command is 'ls -al' you will not get a 'too many arguments' >> > error, because there are not too many arguments; there are none >> > besides the options. If you use 'ls -al *' you may, and it depends >> > on the system (glibc may be part of it) and how many arguments (and >> > possibly the maximum length of the arguments). >> >> The shell will have a command line limit usually. I think older >> versions of bash it was 32768 characters, but I think it is more like >> 128000 now. Not sure. I almost never exceed it, and when I do I know >> how to use find and xargs. Almost certainly the limit depends on the >> libc, the version of the shell, and various other factors. > > I just ran into a similar problem trying to delete a bunch of unwanted files > (cache for various programs mainly). In one case, there was a huge quantity > of files in the directory and a 'rm -f ./*' gave me an error of too many > arguments. I had to do it in chunks such as 'rm -f ./*.png' etc, grouping as > many files together as possible. Should I have done this with a different > command? There are various ways to do it. If the files are sensibly named (no spaces or other pathological characters), it it relatively easy, e.g.: xargs rm < <(ls .) printf "%s\n" * | xargs rm ## printf is a bash builtin -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 00:33:46 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:33:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: billions of files, ext3, reiser, and ls -aly In-Reply-To: <20070131011554.GL10225-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <45BE4B8F.8030309@rogers.com> <64360a0d0701292210i5c1a38b4y2669b1e40e8b77bc@mail.gmail.com> <20070130151433.GS7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BFD9E2.3080601@sympatico.ca> <20070131011554.GL10225@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, John Macdonald wrote: > On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 06:50:58PM -0500, John Moniz wrote: > > I just ran into a similar problem trying to delete a bunch of unwanted > > files (cache for various programs mainly). In one case, there was a huge > > quantity of files in the directory and a 'rm -f ./*' gave me an error of > > too many arguments. I had to do it in chunks such as 'rm -f ./*.png' > > etc, grouping as many files together as possible. Should I have done > > this with a different command? > > Using: > > find . -print | xargs rm In case there may be problems with filenames (spaces, etc.) use: find . -print0 | xargs -0 rm -f > would do it in one shot (as long as you really want to > delete everything in the current directory and there are > no sub-directories - there are other variants to deal with > those cases). If there are subdirectories whose contents you don't want to delete: find . -maxdepth 1 -print0 | xargs -0 rm -f -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From roberto at connexer.com Wed Jan 31 01:31:30 2007 From: roberto at connexer.com (Roberto C. Sanchez) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 20:31:30 -0500 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20070131013130.GG15093@santiago.connexer.com> On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 06:06:05PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > Hi there, > > My girlfriend is buying a new computer a month or two from now and I'm > hoping to convince her to let me install ubuntu feisty on it, and set up > a windows VM using the new KVM module and rdesktop. The idea of the VM > is to let her use software she feels she 'really needs' -- right now, > this is MS Office, endnote and Dreamweaver (I'd like to make all 3 > disappear, but that's another, longer-term project). > If those are the only programs she really "needs" from MS-land, then crossover office would be a real possibility and then you could possibly go completely Linux. We use it at my church since the Pastor and some of the staff need Office XP. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From manimotomushi-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 03:09:00 2007 From: manimotomushi-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Manimoto Mushi) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:09:00 -0500 Subject: Linux+Seamonkey+Sympatico Problem In-Reply-To: <200701301827.23261.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200701301827.23261.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: >From: bob >Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux+Seamonkey+Sympatico Problem >Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:27:22 -0500 > >I believe the "hm" in the Sympatico server names refers to "Hotmail" as in >outsourced to ... Yes I found this out as well. >I wish I could convince someone with the expertise to put a TCP/IP packet >trace on the Sympatico/Hotmail-email client interaction. In particular >it >would be interesting to compare the packets for Outlook vs. Thunderbird for >the same account on the same Sympatico account. While I suspect the SSL >will "mess up" the scientific comparison, I think there would be a good >story in the embrace and extinguish tweek that our friends and Hotmail have >apparently done to SSL and TLS "standards" to allow only Outlook to work. hmm....does Outlook work in Wine on Linux, I wonder? If it does, one could then dump the packets and analyze. I don't have the expertise to do the analysis but will see if Outlook will work on a WinXP machine under Linux+Wine. _________________________________________________________________ Buy, Load, Play. The new Sympatico / MSN Music Store works seamlessly with Windows Media Player. Just Click PLAY. http://musicstore.sympatico.msn.ca/content/viewer.aspx?cid=SMS_Sept192006 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 09:00:09 2007 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 04:00:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <1170200117.4405.425.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1170200117.4405.425.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <687355.44442.qm@web61312.mail.yahoo.com> I had installed Ubuntu to few people who has no idea about computers except using a fully setup windows machine and freaking when they hit a glich. One of them is in Calgary and the user has no access to anyone who even know what Linux is .....their resort is to call my number in Toronto. Setting up the machines, including printer was easier than corresponding setup of Windows. By the end of the installation, I was almost done. The only hack I had to do for the Calgary installation was to change the default file format for OpenOffice to be compatible with MSOffice and setup iptables at the start of the network. The firewall rules are to allow any outgoing trafic and related, established incoming trafic and drop everything else. For the others, I didn't need to do that since they were behind firewall. Even without a firewall, Ubuntu does not open any service accessible over the net. I find OpenOffice good enough for the kind of work I do, The ability to export your documents to PDF and your presentation to flash are added bonuses. However, you can also install Abiword and Gnumeric for a lighter load version. You can try Nvu as a Dreamweaver replacement, especially if she is not into server side scripting languages like ASP, PHP and JSP. Check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareEquivalents for more Widows software replacements on Ubuntu. If the website that she is working on is her own website, she might like to migrate to Joomla, a content managemet system. hth ek ted leslie wrote: I went down this road, I installed SLED for my wife and she was ok with evolution email and firefox, but then "rock star supernova" and the other one, there web site used windows only codec's and the bastards (MS was tied to the production i think via MSNBC or something) they even had a chat board that wouldnt let you in unless you were using MS OS. Now supposedly with fluendo the MS media BS should be a thing of the past. Her Kodak digital camera worked right away with SLED10, as did her mp3 player. Actually the kodak camera worked MUCH better on the Linux SLED then on windows or Mac(OSX 10.4) (which i am selling now, because compiz/beryl just so put it to shame). The kodak software for the mac and windows was just basic stuff, where as with SLED you were fully hookedup. The HP all in one printer sucked for support, i have a parallel interface, and linux seems to want USB for best support, but i did get it working in SLED10. The only issue now is that some web sites (like she is doing a Canadian passport application) and she even tried on a friends MAC with no luck, apparently thats a MS OS only site (havnt tried it myself), so i set up a VMWARE in SLED10 and now she can do online passport, and anything IE only related. She uses open office for xls/doc compat. with no issues. So she basically is 98% linux, and 2% MS when the need. the 2% MS venture is only because some yoodles have no idea about how to put up web content to be not-MS only. Training need to run linux/SLED was zero, just jumped right in an rocked. But then i did futz with the HP printer however, she would be printerless still to this day if it was just her working the SLED. the experienced did make me realize that until Linux can make sure 99% of popular printer out there are going to work and work by installation by any old brain dead user, Linux isn't quite ready to replace MS for everyone, but man its close for most. Your girl friends success is going to depend alot on what version of linux you use and her hardware. SLED is sweet, but I did drop 50$, but then i run it on a few machines :) I hear ubuntu isn't half bad so hopefully it works out for you. I WOULDNT advice VMWARE on WIN host with LINUX guest, in my experiencs of late in projects deplying VMWARE on windows to run linux, i had to abort, the or maybe they just struggle becasue MS OS makes it difficult, but you gotta do a VMWARE hosted on Linux and have vmware host the MS OS. -tl On Tue, 2007-01-30 at 18:06 -0500, Matt Price wrote: > Hi there, > > My girlfriend is buying a new computer a month or two from now and I'm > hoping to convince her to let me install ubuntu feisty on it, and set up > a windows VM using the new KVM module and rdesktop. The idea of the VM > is to let her use software she feels she 'really needs' -- right now, > this is MS Office, endnote and Dreamweaver (I'd like to make all 3 > disappear, but that's another, longer-term project). > > Her main objection right now is that the person trying to convince her > is a known linux ideologue who spends hours at a time hacking on his > machine, and that she has no interest whatsoever in hacking -- she just > wants her computer to work for her in a fully transparent way. > > So I am looking for stories from people who have done this successfully, > and if possible some web postings that explain how easy it is to do, who > transparently it works, and how happy customers are when they get a look > at the superior OS which is GNUlinux (or ubuntu, or gentoo, or debian, > or whatever). cross-posting to the 3 communities I sort of belong to > (ubuntu, debian, toronto lug), sorry if you get multiple copies. > > Thanks loads! Looking forward to lots of success stories, > > Matt > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists --------------------------------- All new Yahoo! Mail - --------------------------------- Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 09:44:27 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 04:44:27 -0500 Subject: new Rogers terms of service In-Reply-To: <200701301749.09420.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200701301749.09420.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990701310144h18d925x71a544e20d1675d5@mail.gmail.com> On 1/30/07, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > 19. ... We may also access or preserve content or information to > > comply with legal process in Canada or foreign jurisdictions, ... > > > > Notice the word "foreign". This is inappropriate and unacceptible. But what does "legal process" mean? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 12:26:40 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 07:26:40 -0500 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <20070130232650.GU7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <200701301825.37846.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20070130232650.GU7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200701310726.40468.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Tuesday 30 January 2007 18:26, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 06:25:37PM -0500, Fraser Campbell wrote: > > The last time I tried KVM (probably release 5) Windows was very sluggish > > under it. One very noticeable problem was that the clock ran way too > > fast (minutes going by in seconds). > > Wasn't KVM just merged like a few weeks ago? How can it be release 5 > already? Well their release numbering is a bit strange, it's now at release 12: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=180599 No release kernel contains it yet but it is being merged in 2.6.20. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 13:59:25 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 08:59:25 -0500 Subject: billions of files, ext3, reiser, and ls -aly In-Reply-To: <45BFD9E2.3080601-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <45BE4B8F.8030309@rogers.com> <64360a0d0701292210i5c1a38b4y2669b1e40e8b77bc@mail.gmail.com> <20070130151433.GS7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BFD9E2.3080601@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20070131135925.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 06:50:58PM -0500, John Moniz wrote: > I just ran into a similar problem trying to delete a bunch of unwanted > files (cache for various programs mainly). In one case, there was a huge > quantity of files in the directory and a 'rm -f ./*' gave me an error of > too many arguments. I had to do it in chunks such as 'rm -f ./*.png' > etc, grouping as many files together as possible. Should I have done > this with a different command? Something like: find . -maxdepth 1 -print0 |xargs -9 rm -f Or you could have done, cd ..; rm -rf dirname (assuming you didn't want to keep the dir). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 14:00:19 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 09:00:19 -0500 Subject: billions of files, ext3, reiser, and ls -aly In-Reply-To: References: <45BE4B8F.8030309@rogers.com> <64360a0d0701292210i5c1a38b4y2669b1e40e8b77bc@mail.gmail.com> <20070130151433.GS7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BFD9E2.3080601@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20070131140019.GW7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 07:31:46PM -0500, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > There are various ways to do it. If the files are sensibly named > (no spaces or other pathological characters), it it relatively > easy, e.g.: > > xargs rm < <(ls .) > > printf "%s\n" * | xargs rm ## printf is a bash builtin If they have spaces you can still use find: find . -print0 | xargs -0 rm -f That uses NULL seperation rather than space seperation. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 14:00:51 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 09:00:51 -0500 Subject: billions of files, ext3, reiser, and ls -aly In-Reply-To: <20070131011554.GL10225-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <45BE4B8F.8030309@rogers.com> <64360a0d0701292210i5c1a38b4y2669b1e40e8b77bc@mail.gmail.com> <20070130151433.GS7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45BFD9E2.3080601@sympatico.ca> <20070131011554.GL10225@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20070131140051.GX7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 08:15:54PM -0500, John Macdonald wrote: > Using: > > find . -print | xargs rm > > would do it in one shot (as long as you really want to > delete everything in the current directory and there are > no sub-directories - there are other variants to deal with > those cases). As long as no files have spaces in their names. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 13:55:33 2007 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 08:55:33 -0500 Subject: Linux+Seamonkey+Sympatico Problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200701310855.34021.ican@netrover.com> On Tuesday 30 January 2007 10:09 pm, Manimoto Mushi wrote: > >From: bob > >Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux+Seamonkey+Sympatico Problem > >Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:27:22 -0500 > > > >I believe the "hm" in the Sympatico server names refers to "Hotmail" as in > >outsourced to ... > > Yes I found this out as well. > > >I wish I could convince someone with the expertise to put a TCP/IP packet > >trace on the Sympatico/Hotmail-email client interaction. In particular > >it > >would be interesting to compare the packets for Outlook vs. Thunderbird > > for the same account on the same Sympatico account. While I suspect > > the SSL will "mess up" the scientific comparison, I think there would > > be a good story in the embrace and extinguish tweek that our friends and > > Hotmail have apparently done to SSL and TLS "standards" to allow only > > Outlook to work. > > hmm....does Outlook work in Wine on Linux, I wonder? > If it does, one could then dump the packets and analyze. > I don't have the expertise to do the analysis but will see if Outlook will > work on a WinXP machine under Linux+Wine. Checking the Codeweavers page, it would appear that there Crossover Linux package runs Outlook. Since Codeweavers is the commercial layer on top of WINE I'm going to assume that it runs well under WINE. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pr0f3ss0r1492 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 14:27:28 2007 From: pr0f3ss0r1492 at yahoo.com (Ottavio Caruso) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:27:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <952111.30903.qm@web52605.mail.yahoo.com> --- Matt Price wrote: > Hi there, > > My girlfriend is buying a new computer a month or two from now and > I'm > hoping to convince her to let me install ubuntu feisty on it, and > set up > a windows VM using the new KVM module and rdesktop. IMHO the last thing a responsible Linux user should do is trying to convince somebody who does not want Linux to install Linux, and I am speaking for myself not for you. -- Ottavio Caruso I will not purchase any computing equipment from manufacturers that recommend Windows Vista? or any other Microsoft? products. http://www.pledgebank.com/boycottvista ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST at lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster at lists.debian.org From matt.price at utoronto.ca Wed Jan 31 14:47:29 2007 From: matt.price at utoronto.ca (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 09:47:29 -0500 Subject: [TLUG]: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <20070130232436.GT7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <20070130232436.GT7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1170254849.8678.2.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2007-01-30 at 18:24 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 06:06:05PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > > My girlfriend is buying a new computer a month or two from now and I'm > > hoping to convince her to let me install ubuntu feisty on it, and set up > > a windows VM using the new KVM module and rdesktop. The idea of the VM > > is to let her use software she feels she 'really needs' -- right now, > > this is MS Office, endnote and Dreamweaver (I'd like to make all 3 > > disappear, but that's another, longer-term project). > > Remember KVM _requires_ a CPU with hardware virtualization instructions. > Not all CPUs have that. None of mine do so I certainly can't try it > out. :) > yes, I know. the core-duo hcips seem the obvious hcoice, probably either a thinkpad x60 or a sony sz series. > > Her main objection right now is that the person trying to convince her > > is a known linux ideologue who spends hours at a time hacking on his > > machine, and that she has no interest whatsoever in hacking -- she just > > wants her computer to work for her in a fully transparent way. > > Another option is vmware, although that may be too much trouble to use > as well. I do want to keep it pretty fast. vmware is fairly straightforward to set up on ubuntu now, htough, so that may actually be a pretty good option. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price at utoronto.ca -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 14:49:08 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 09:49:08 -0500 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <200701301825.37846.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <200701301825.37846.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <1170254948.8678.5.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2007-01-30 at 18:25 -0500, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Tuesday 30 January 2007 18:06, Matt Price wrote: > > > My girlfriend is buying a new computer a month or two from now and I'm > > hoping to convince her to let me install ubuntu feisty on it, and set up > > a windows VM using the new KVM module and rdesktop. The idea of the VM > > is to let her use software she feels she 'really needs' -- right now, > > this is MS Office, endnote and Dreamweaver (I'd like to make all 3 > > disappear, but that's another, longer-term project). > > The last time I tried KVM (probably release 5) Windows was very sluggish under > it. One very noticeable problem was that the clock ran way too fast (minutes > going by in seconds). > > If your machine is capable of running KVM then it should also be capable of > running Xen. My experience with running Windows under Xen has been very good > (no noticeable slowdown in either dom0 or the Windows VM), I am using ubuntu > and the default Xen packages provided in edgy. > I'd use xen except as I understand it xen doesn't yet support suspending dom0, so it's much more cumbersome to use on a laptop -- especially a tiny laptop like I'm planning to ifnd for michelle, whcih will be transported back and forth constantly. m > I prefer the idea of KVM (especially on a laptop) and it's developing rapidly > so I would expect it to be a good solution before too long - I doubt it's > there yet. > well, I can hold Michelle off a couple of months but I reckon that's it. -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 14:51:40 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 09:51:40 -0500 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <687355.44442.qm-MKFrfjzrikGA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <687355.44442.qm@web61312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1170255100.8678.9.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 04:00 -0500, E K wrote: > I find OpenOffice good enough for the kind of work I do, The ability > to export your documents to PDF and your presentation to flash are > added bonuses. However, you can also install Abiword and Gnumeric for > a lighter load version. > I like openoffice too, but until the bibliographic capabilities are improved, it's really impossible for most academics to abandon the MS WOrdEndnote combination (unless they use latex, in which case they're already in a special category). Openoffice MAY get their act together in the next 6 months, but I've been saying that for 3 years now... > You can try Nvu as a Dreamweaver replacement, especially if she is not > into server side scripting languages like ASP, PHP and JSP. Check out > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareEquivalents for more Widows software > replacements on Ubuntu. If the website that she is working on is her > own website, she might like to migrate to Joomla, a content managemet > system. also probably not a solution -- she runs a small website in an ad-hoc basis with a couple of grad students; they use dreamweaver, she uses dreamweaver, her only interest here is in not having to use another tool. maybe in the future though... m > > hth > > ek > > ted leslie wrote: > > I went down this road, > > I installed SLED for my wife and she was ok with evolution > email > and firefox, > > but then "rock star supernova" and the other one, there web > site used > windows only codec's and the bastards (MS was tied to the > production i > think via MSNBC or something) they even had a chat board that > wouldnt > let you in unless you were using MS OS. > Now supposedly with fluendo the MS media BS should be a thing > of the > past. > > Her Kodak digital camera worked right away with SLED10, as did > her mp3 > player. Actually the kodak camera worked MUCH better on the > Linux SLED > then on windows or Mac(OSX 10.4) (which i am selling now, > because > compiz/beryl just so put it to shame). The kodak software for > the mac > and windows was just basic stuff, where as with SLED you were > fully > hookedup. > The HP all in one printer sucked for support, i have a > parallel > interface, and linux seems to want USB for best support, but i > did get > it working in SLED10. > > The only issue now is that some web sites (like she is doing a > Canadian > passport application) and she even tried on a friends MAC with > no luck, > apparently thats a MS OS only site (havnt tried it myself), > so i set up a VMWARE in SLED10 and now she can do online > passport, > and anything IE only related. > > She uses open office for xls/doc compat. with no issues. > > So she basically is 98% linux, and 2% MS when the need. > the 2% MS venture is only because some yoodles have no idea > about how > to put up web content to be not-MS only. > > Training need to run linux/SLED was zero, > just jumped right in an rocked. > But then i did futz with the HP printer however, > she would be printerless still to this day if it was just > her working the SLED. > > the experienced did make me realize that until Linux can make > sure > 99% of popular printer out there are going to work and work by > installation by any old brain dead user, Linux isn't quite > ready to > replace MS for everyone, but man its close for most. > > Your girl friends success is going to depend alot on what > version of > linux you use and her hardware. SLED is sweet, but I did drop > 50$, > but then i run it on a few machines :) > I hear ubuntu isn't half bad so hopefully it works out for > you. > > I WOULDNT advice VMWARE on WIN host with LINUX guest, > in my experiencs of late in projects deplying VMWARE on > windows to run > linux, i had to abort, the > or maybe they just struggle becasue MS OS makes it difficult, > but you gotta do a VMWARE hosted on Linux and have vmware host > the MS > OS. > > -tl > > > > On Tue, 2007-01-30 at 18:06 -0500, Matt Price wrote: > > Hi there, > > > > My girlfriend is buying a new computer a month or two from > now and I'm > > hoping to convince her to let me install ubuntu feisty on > it, and set up > > a windows VM using the new KVM module and rdesktop. The idea > of the VM > > is to let her use software she feels she 'really needs' -- > right now, > > this is MS Office, endnote and Dreamweaver (I'd like to make > all 3 > > disappear, but that's another, longer-term project). > > > > Her main objection right now is that the person trying to > convince her > > is a known linux ideologue who spends hours at a time > hacking on his > > machine, and that she has no interest whatsoever in hacking > -- she just > > wants her computer to work for her in a fully transparent > way. > > > > So I am looking for stories from people who have done this > successfully, > > and if possible some web postings that explain how easy it > is to do, who > > transparently it works, and how happy customers are when > they get a look > > at the superior OS which is GNUlinux (or ubuntu, or gentoo, > or debian, > > or whatever). cross-posting to the 3 communities I sort of > belong to > > (ubuntu, debian, toronto lug), sorry if you get multiple > copies. > > > > Thanks loads! Looking forward to lots of success stories, > > > > Matt > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > All new Yahoo! Mail - > ______________________________________________________________________ > Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane. -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 15:19:31 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:19:31 -0500 Subject: Linux+Seamonkey+Sympatico Problem In-Reply-To: <200701310855.34021.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200701310855.34021.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <45C0B383.4030904@rogers.com> bob wrote: > On Tuesday 30 January 2007 10:09 pm, Manimoto Mushi wrote: > >>> From: bob >>> Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >>> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >>> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux+Seamonkey+Sympatico Problem >>> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:27:22 -0500 >>> >>> I believe the "hm" in the Sympatico server names refers to "Hotmail" as in >>> outsourced to ... >>> >> Yes I found this out as well. >> >> >>> I wish I could convince someone with the expertise to put a TCP/IP packet >>> trace on the Sympatico/Hotmail-email client interaction. In particular >>> it >>> would be interesting to compare the packets for Outlook vs. Thunderbird >>> for the same account on the same Sympatico account. While I suspect >>> the SSL will "mess up" the scientific comparison, I think there would >>> be a good story in the embrace and extinguish tweek that our friends and >>> Hotmail have apparently done to SSL and TLS "standards" to allow only >>> Outlook to work. >>> >> hmm....does Outlook work in Wine on Linux, I wonder? >> If it does, one could then dump the packets and analyze. >> I don't have the expertise to do the analysis but will see if Outlook will >> work on a WinXP machine under Linux+Wine. >> > > Checking the Codeweavers page, it would appear that there Crossover Linux > package runs Outlook. Since Codeweavers is the commercial layer on top of > WINE I'm going to assume that it runs well under WINE. > If Bell is forcing customers to use specific software, perhaps a few complaints to the CRTC, newspapers, MPs, net neutrality advocates etc. would be in order. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 15:54:16 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:54:16 -0500 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <1170255100.8678.9.camel@localhost> References: <687355.44442.qm@web61312.mail.yahoo.com> <1170255100.8678.9.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20070131155416.GZ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 09:51:40AM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > also probably not a solution -- she runs a small website in an ad-hoc > basis with a couple of grad students; they use dreamweaver, she uses > dreamweaver, her only interest here is in not having to use another > tool. maybe in the future though... Hmm, my exprience a few years ago with dreamweaver's generated HTML code (Well calling it HTML is being a bit generous given the generated code was only valid on Netscape 4 for some reason caused by a user clicking the wrong checkbox somewhere). Perhaps the name nightmareweaver would be more appropriate. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense at csclub.uwaterloo.ca Wed Jan 31 15:52:04 2007 From: lsorense at csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:52:04 -0500 Subject: [TLUG]: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <1170254849.8678.2.camel@localhost> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <20070130232436.GT7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170254849.8678.2.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20070131155204.GY7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 09:47:29AM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > yes, I know. the core-duo hcips seem the obvious hcoice, probably > either a thinkpad x60 or a sony sz series. Make that Core 2 Duo. The core Duo probably won't do it at all. -- Len Sorensen From dgardiner0821-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 18:18:23 2007 From: dgardiner0821-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (DANIEL GARDINER) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:18:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: new Rogers terms of service In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070131181823.56751.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: > 14. You may not use the Services for anything > other than your own > personal use. You may not resell the Services, > receive any charge or > benefit for the use of the Services or provide > internet access or any > other feature of the Services to any third > party. You may not share > or transfer your Services without our express > consent. > > a. the internet is about sharing. Is a web server > sharing my Service > when it sends a message to me?? > > b. does that mean that the rest of my household > (family) cannot use the internet? I think they are trying to say that you can't hook up a wireless router and allow/sell access to your neighbour(hood). > 51. [WRT Television Services] Only one > television or FM receiver may be > attached to any outlet. ... > > Does this prohibit VCRs, PVRs, etc? I don't think so, it sounds more like the old mantra of "if you want a tv in another room you need to put in another outlet, you can't split the signal and run a line to the other room". Daniel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 18:56:31 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:56:31 -0500 Subject: new Rogers terms of service In-Reply-To: <20070131181823.56751.qmail-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070131181823.56751.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070131185631.GF16106@watson-wilson.ca> On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 01:18:23PM -0500, DANIEL GARDINER wrote: >> b. does that mean that the rest of my household >> (family) cannot use the internet? > > I think they are trying to say that you can't hook >up a wireless router and allow/sell access to your >neighbour(hood). What about if you do it for free, by accident thanks to a helpful wifi router with an open default configuration? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 1 day http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 19:53:10 2007 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:53:10 -0500 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <92ee967a0701311153k583e974fqab684f832f4a913a@mail.gmail.com> On 1/30/07, Matt Price wrote: > Hi there, > > My girlfriend is buying a new computer a month or two from now and I'm > hoping to convince her to let me install ubuntu feisty on it, and set up > a windows VM using the new KVM module and rdesktop. The idea of the VM > is to let her use software she feels she 'really needs' -- right now, > this is MS Office, endnote and Dreamweaver (I'd like to make all 3 > disappear, but that's another, longer-term project). > > Her main objection right now is that the person trying to convince her > is a known linux ideologue who spends hours at a time hacking on his > machine, and that she has no interest whatsoever in hacking -- she just > wants her computer to work for her in a fully transparent way. > > So I am looking for stories from people who have done this successfully, > and if possible some web postings that explain how easy it is to do, who > transparently it works, and how happy customers are when they get a look > at the superior OS which is GNUlinux (or ubuntu, or gentoo, or debian, > or whatever). cross-posting to the 3 communities I sort of belong to > (ubuntu, debian, toronto lug), sorry if you get multiple copies. One suggestion of something to try... When you get Windows to run virtualized, connect to it through RDC rather than the native virtualization. With RDC, the mouse won't lag, and both the audio and clipboard will work reasonably well between Linux and Windows apps... play with the RDC settings if you have problems with those features. The performance is fantastic for business applications. You may want to have VMWare start Windows automatically and not present the GUI. Then Windows would be available in the background through the RDC client. Video will probably suck BTW, and if she doesn't understand what's going on, she might gripe about the startup and shutdown times. Also make her Windows home directory a Samba share from the Linux side. Then she can move stuff around seamlessly. If all goes well, then Windows will just show up on the desktop pager. Does anyone know if the OEM Windows XP license permits running Windows virtualized? -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 20:02:38 2007 From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Matt) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:02:38 -0500 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0701311153k583e974fqab684f832f4a913a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <92ee967a0701311153k583e974fqab684f832f4a913a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1170273758.4817.1.camel@AlphaTrion.vmware.com> AFAIK, there shouldn't be a problem with the license for XP. Now Vista on the other hand... > Does anyone know if the OEM Windows XP license permits running Windows > virtualized? > > -Mike > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 21:54:06 2007 From: gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jing Su) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:54:06 -0500 Subject: better multi-display support in X Message-ID: Hello, I have a laptop that I sometimes want to connect an external monitor to and have extra screen real-estate. So far, the only solution that really works for me is to restart X with Xinerama when I have the external monitor connected and restart X again when I disconnect to be on-the-go. This has really frustrated me because it's just not very friendly or smooth. I've tried running in dual-screen mode (having two different X screens) but it's annoying to not be able to juggle and move windows around. It's still the case then when I connect or reconnect I have to restart the apps that I want to move. Googling hasn't turned up many useful results for me on this topic. Has anyone else had better luck in terms of little utility programs or configs which make this a more bearable experience? -Jing P.S. my apologies if this has been discussed before... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 22:26:30 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:26:30 -0600 Subject: new Rogers terms of service In-Reply-To: <20070131185631.GF16106-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070131181823.56751.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070131185631.GF16106@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990701311426g4db3a474sde10ddc36c7c7451@mail.gmail.com> On 1/31/07, Neil Watson wrote: > On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 01:18:23PM -0500, DANIEL GARDINER wrote: > >> b. does that mean that the rest of my household > >> (family) cannot use the internet? > > > > I think they are trying to say that you can't hook > >up a wireless router and allow/sell access to your > >neighbour(hood). > > What about if you do it for free, by accident thanks to a helpful wifi > router with an open default configuration? Then it's still your fault. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 22:58:12 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:58:12 -0500 Subject: Linux+Seamonkey+Sympatico Problem In-Reply-To: <45C0B383.4030904-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200701310855.34021.ican@netrover.com> <45C0B383.4030904@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070131175812.77d81938@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:19:31 -0500 James Knott got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > If Bell is forcing customers to use specific software, perhaps a few > complaints to the CRTC, newspapers, MPs, net neutrality advocates etc. > would be in order. ...just now? ;-) They've been 'forcing' people to use specific software for years now, with their nearly OCD'ish response of 'We Don't Support That'. Hell, in that sense, anyone who operates any kind of utility, public, private, or combination thereof, is 'guilty' of such an offense in some way. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "Why don't you just come move in with me?" -Bender "Really? That would be great! You sure I won't be imposing?" -Fry "Nah. I've always wanted a pet." -Bender -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 23:11:28 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:11:28 -0500 Subject: clearing the neighbourhood Message-ID: <45C12220.6090303@chrisaitken.net> Way off-topic. Can anyone explain "clearing the neighbourhood" (as per IAU planet defintion) to me and my ten year-old? We're trying to understand why the flavour-of-the-month is that Pluto is not a planet. And, yeah, I have burrowed into a few links in wikipedia. Thanks, Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 23:57:07 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 23:57:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: new Rogers terms of service References: <200701301749.09420.softquake@gmail.com> <1e55af990701310144h18d925x71a544e20d1675d5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sy Ali writes: > > On 1/30/07, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > > 19. ... We may also access or preserve content or information to > > > comply with legal process in Canada or foreign jurisdictions, ... > > > > > > Notice the word "foreign". This is inappropriate and unacceptible. > > But what does "legal process" mean? imho: Anything that involves you, the RIAA and/or MPAA and a big inconvenience, that you don't know about yet but are about to find out. Or FUD. Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 31 23:59:44 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:59:44 -0500 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <20070131155204.GY7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <1170254849.8678.2.camel@localhost> <20070131155204.GY7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Wednesday 31 January 2007 10:52, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 09:47:29AM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > > yes, I know. the core-duo hcips seem the obvious hcoice, probably > > either a thinkpad x60 or a sony sz series. > > Make that Core 2 Duo. The core Duo probably won't do it at all. Nope, core duo is fine as well. I have a Dell inspiron 6400 with a T2400 (IIRC) ... definitely a core duo and definitely has VT. All core duos from T2200 and up (if not earlier) should have VT capability. I've tried HP, Toshiba and Dell laptops and all had VT enabled and working fine for Xen. Wish I'd stuck with the Toshiba, it had Intel graphics. On the toshiba graphics and suspend all worked out of the box - without ATI graphics not so much, I suppose there are some functional ATI drivers that I could download from somewhere but I'm too lazy to look ;-) -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists