David, please tell me you weren't part of this...

JoeHill joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org
Mon Feb 5 08:48:36 UTC 2007


On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 23:28:25 -0500
Evan Leibovitch got an infinite number of monkeys to type out:

> Jamon Camisso wrote:
> > We distributed over 100 cds and people were begging for more.  
> I used to love my old steady supply of AOL floppies and CDs, they made
> for great coasters.

AOL dumped its half-assed wares on people who never requested them, blanketing
the planet with CD-spam.

From what I've heard, the only people walking away with Linux CD's at this
event were those who showed at least some interest in them.

Nice try, but...you hit nothing but air.
 
> Just because people love getting free stuff doesn't mean that a single
> one of those CDs is going to make its way onto someone's computer. But
> hey, it's your dime...
> 
> > .. We were also quite adamant that no one be approached about Ubuntu,
> > but rather, the pitch was "Have you heard of Linux"?  
> Well, all attempts to promote the event as a publicity stunt
> (accurately) mentioned that it was Ubuntu pulling the stunt. The CRN
> article may have tried to tar the broader community with the associated
> immaturity, and it indeed was the only publicity generated by the event
> outside of that generated by the participants themselves.
> 
> > After that, out come the cds if people are interested. You'd be
> > surprised. The value is in actually talking to people, the cd is
> > totally secondary. Face time baby!  
> Talk about condescention. Many people on this list -- including some
> with the worst criticisms of this dumb event -- have done more than
> their share of "face time". I for one am personally responsible for
> getting more than 3,000 Caldera CDs into the Toronto area more then a
> decade ago,

Jeez, comparing Ubuntu CD's to those containing AOL and Caldera. What's next?
An invokation of Godwin's Law?

> back at a time when every distributed CD had to be accompanied by a lengthy
> description of what "this Lie-nux thing" was. Many other folks here have done
> at least as much, at the Toronto Linux Centre on Eastern Avenue, the National
> Installfest and other events that really had lasting effect.
> 
> So please spare the johnny-come-lately lectures on the value of face
> time. Don't parrot the Ubuntu sentiment that they're inventing Linux
> advocacy.
> 
> > But I think you fail to see what Ubuntu is doing for Linux. Just as
> > Stallman was and is rightly pissed about Linux overshadowing GNU,
> > Ubuntu may be doing the same in part for Linux.  
> Good lord these guys are full of themselves, aren't they? Please don't
> take this personally, Jamon, but if you truly believe this you need some
> serious schooling on the history of Linux.

Oh, please...I'm feeling queasy.
 
> There isn't a single tactic being trotted out -- except for the
> CD-mailed-anywhere thing funded out of Shuttleworth's pocket -- that
> hasn't been used by other advocates for many, many years. Ubuntu is at
> best a refinement of work already been done, it is certainly not the
> reinvention -- let alone the revolution -- that its cheerleaders claim.
> It is right now the leader (in certain criteria) amongst a crowded field
> of distributions, it is certainly a fine piece of work and currently my
> distro of choice. But it is no giant leap in technology or process from
> the rest of the pack.

I see, so once you've put your revolutionary mark on the planet, no one else
dare claim to do any great work, it is all 'derivative'. Had my fill of this
20 years ago from the 'Kings English' people. Didn't have wings then, and still
can't get off the ground today.

> Unfortunately its cheerleaders, in the pitiful belief that their baby is
> indeed a breed apart from everything else, are rapidly alienating the greater
> community. The relationship between Ubuntu Toronto and TLUG (ie, there is no
> relationship) is typical. Is the fact that "F*ck Ubuntu" t-shirts are common
> at Debian meetings a source of pride? If you dismiss that as petty jealousy,
> you'd be wrong.

Ah, so now we see the beginnings of the ad-hominem attacks, only by proxy. Nice.
 
> > By this point I think that even the most idealistic can admit
> > GNU/Linux is totally not what the public wants to hear and is largely
> > academic to most anyways, so go figure.  
> I guess we're not reading the same magazines. From my POV, Linux is now
> a cornerstone of the product strategies of IBM, Novell and Oracle. It's
> on track for submission as an ISO standard for operating systems, with
> equal status to POSIX. It's being suggested by analysts as a worthy
> alternative to a Vista upgrade, and is a source of increasing employment
> for its practitioners. It's still not for everyone -- especially those
> who want a great games machine -- but it's of value to a steadily
> increasing proportion of PC users. Writers like Marcel have been helping
> Linux be more accessible to the masses long before Ubuntu was a gleam in
> Mark Shuttleworth's eye.

Here comes the 'we made <insert great thing here> great, now it's being taken
over by a bunch of crazy hippies'.

Wow, never heard that one before.

-- 
JoeHill
++++++++++++++++++++
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 Fry: Wait a minute, I know what's going on here. You've all become idiots.
 Bender: Hey, let's go join the Reform party!
 Everyone: Yeah! 
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