From mockingbird at ihug.co.nz Thu Feb 1 01:13:27 2007 From: mockingbird at ihug.co.nz (Chris Bannister) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 14:13:27 +1300 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <20070131013130.GG15093@santiago.connexer.com> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <20070131013130.GG15093@santiago.connexer.com> Message-ID: <20070201011327.GA12198@kan> On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 08:31:30PM -0500, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: > On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 06:06:05PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > > Hi there, > > > > My girlfriend is buying a new computer a month or two from now and I'm > > hoping to convince her to let me install ubuntu feisty on it, and set up > > a windows VM using the new KVM module and rdesktop. The idea of the VM > > is to let her use software she feels she 'really needs' -- right now, > > this is MS Office, endnote and Dreamweaver (I'd like to make all 3 > > disappear, but that's another, longer-term project). > > > If those are the only programs she really "needs" from MS-land, then > crossover office would be a real possibility and then you could possibly > go completely Linux. We use it at my church since the Pastor and some > of the staff need Office XP. Does crossover office provide a replacement for endnote? -- Chris. ====== Don't forget to check that your /etc/apt/sources.lst entries point to etch and not testing, otherwise you may end up with a broken system once etch goes stable. From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 01:43:56 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:43:56 -0500 Subject: Autoflush USB thumb drive after copy In-Reply-To: <200701311859.44748.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <1170254849.8678.2.camel@localhost> <20070131155204.GY7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <45C145DC.2070302@rogers.com> Hey All, I've got a USB thumb drive that I rarely use. Just started to again, but when I copy a file to it, unless I umount the node when I'm done, the file doesn't get committed. IMO, this is stupid - anyone know the reasoning behind this? This must be a very basic issue and I'm sure there's a quick fix for it. However, I haven't found a quick fix by poking around my system or STFW yet. I thought for sure this'd be something I could tweak with an /etc/sysconfig editor, but no go. sysctl -a didn't show anything that looked apropos either. If anyone could point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it. Cheers, B -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 02:20:38 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:20:38 -0500 Subject: clearing the neighbourhood In-Reply-To: <45C12220.6090303-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <45C12220.6090303@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <45C14E76.2090500@utoronto.ca> Chris Aitken wrote: > Way off-topic. > > Can anyone explain "clearing the neighbourhood" (as per IAU planet > defintion) to me and my ten year-old? We're trying to understand why the > flavour-of-the-month is that Pluto is not a planet. > > And, yeah, I have burrowed into a few links in wikipedia. Take a look here: http://blogs.nature.com/news/blog/2006/08/iau.html "[An] earlier definition had required first and foremost that a planet be round, then lumped planets that were not ?dominant? in their local population into a subcategory of dwarf planets. The new definition required that a planet be both round and dominant, then put any round objects left over into a ?dwarf-planet? category." These two as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_planet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearing_the_neighbourhood#Details -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 03:14:53 2007 From: gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jing Su) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 22:14:53 -0500 Subject: Autoflush USB thumb drive after copy In-Reply-To: <45C145DC.2070302-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <1170254849.8678.2.camel@localhost> <20070131155204.GY7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <45C145DC.2070302@rogers.com> Message-ID: For performance Linux does not immediately commit writes. It is recommended to umount, or else call sync several times to ensure full flush. On 1/31/07, Byron Sonne wrote: > Hey All, > > I've got a USB thumb drive that I rarely use. Just started to again, but > when I copy a file to it, unless I umount the node when I'm done, the > file doesn't get committed. IMO, this is stupid - anyone know the > reasoning behind this? > > This must be a very basic issue and I'm sure there's a quick fix for it. > However, I haven't found a quick fix by poking around my system or STFW > yet. I thought for sure this'd be something I could tweak with an > /etc/sysconfig editor, but no go. sysctl -a didn't show anything that > looked apropos either. > > If anyone could point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it. > > Cheers, > B > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 04:04:30 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 31 Jan 2007 23:04:30 -0500 Subject: better multi-display support in X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Jing Su" writes: > Hello, > > I have a laptop that I sometimes want to connect an external monitor > to and have extra screen real-estate. So far, the only solution that > really works for me is to restart X with Xinerama when I have the > external monitor connected and restart X again when I disconnect to be > on-the-go. > > This has really frustrated me because it's just not very friendly or > smooth. I've tried running in dual-screen mode (having two different > X screens) but it's annoying to not be able to juggle and move windows > around. It's still the case then when I connect or reconnect I have > to restart the apps that I want to move. > > Googling hasn't turned up many useful results for me on this topic. > Has anyone else had better luck in terms of little utility programs or > configs which make this a more bearable experience? xrandr combined with various dual head setups (Xinerama, radeon MergedFB, ATI fglrx Big Desktop, or nVidia TwinView) _may_ do what you want. I generally just switch between the builtin flat panel at 1024x768 and an external flat panel at 1280x1024 (with my notebook closed) so YMMV. Note that the proprietary ATI fglrx drivers have (some) hotplug support. nVidia may have something similar. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 04:00:11 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 23:00:11 -0500 Subject: Autoflush USB thumb drive after copy In-Reply-To: <45C145DC.2070302-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <45C145DC.2070302@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200701312300.11399.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Wednesday 31 January 2007 20:43, Byron Sonne wrote: > This must be a very basic issue and I'm sure there's a quick fix for it. > However, I haven't found a quick fix by poking around my system or STFW > yet. I thought for sure this'd be something I could tweak with an > /etc/sysconfig editor, but no go. sysctl -a didn't show anything that > looked apropos either. I think you might get close to the behaviour that you want by arranging for the filesystem to be mounted synchronously (sync option), dirsync might also be needed, dunno. Keep in mind that even Windows forces you to "safely remove" hardware such as this - though it may commit it's writes more quickly than Linux. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 04:31:03 2007 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 23:31:03 -0500 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20070131233103.e09a8d68.hgibson@eol.ca> On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:06:05 -0500 Matt Price wrote: > Hi there, > > My girlfriend is buying a new computer a month or two from now and I'm > hoping to convince her to let me install ubuntu feisty on it... > > So I am looking for stories from people who have done this successfully, > and if possible some web postings that explain how easy it is to do, who > transparently it works, and how happy customers are when they get a look > at the superior OS which is GNUlinux (or ubuntu, or gentoo, or debian, > or whatever). cross-posting to the 3 communities I sort of belong to > (ubuntu, debian, toronto lug), sorry if you get multiple copies. > > Thanks loads! Looking forward to lots of success stories, > > Matt Matt, I picked up a second-hand Pentium III for my mom and I put Fedora Core_2 on it. My objective was to hand her a computer with an OS I understand and that I can reinstall if neccessary without violating anyone's intellectual property. My assumptions are that the machine will not slowly deteriorate in performance as spyware and other crap gets installed from internet, and that the machine will be reliable. So far, so good. I delivered the reliability I said that I would. She was unable to cancel a print job because she launched the print window, but did not realize she had to select a printer. Windows would have failed too. I advised her to use Open Office rather than AbiWord to prepare documents. AbiWord looked simpler to her, but I figure Open Office does everything, somehow. There is something to be said for bloatware. The main incompatibility between Open Office and Microsoft Word is that OO spaces its lines out more, messing up the formatting a bit. Other than that, you can generate documents in DOC format and switch back and forth between machines. I know nothing about endnote. The correct Microsoft Windows resource for editing HTML is NOTEPAD. A functional level of HTML can be taught in about an hour. Stylesheets can be figured out in an hour or two more. You can send her to http://www.WebPagesThatSuck.com to find out why the graphic editors, particularly Microsoft FrontPage, don't work very well. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 04:30:06 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 31 Jan 2007 23:30:06 -0500 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <1170200117.4405.425.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <1170200117.4405.425.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: ted leslie writes: > I went down this road, > > I installed SLED for my wife and she was ok with evolution email > and firefox, [snip] I gave my wife a simple choice: 1. Use Windows and get little or no support from me because it's too time consuming (not to mention expensive) to support and I find using Windows so unpleasant that it makes me very grumpy. 2. Use Linux and get all the support she needs. This was about 1996 or so and she's been using Linux ever since. Currently she's running Ubuntu Dapper on a 2GHz Dell laptop with 512M RAM. She has Windows '98 running in Vmware for the occasional Windows program that has no Linux equivalent (mainly sewing and knitting stuff). She's very happy with this setup and needs very little support, much less than she did when she was just running Windows. A lot of Windows users say they want something that "just works". What they really want is something that works just like Windows. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 06:27:22 2007 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 14:27:22 +0800 Subject: OT: Load balancing of 2 DSL connection Message-ID: <200702011427.23104.jerome@gmanmi.tv> hi, does anyone here knows of a good load balancer DSL connections? thanks, DISCLAIMER: This Message may contain confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of this message is prohibited. If you received this message in error please notify your Mail Administrator and delete this message immediately. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of GMA New Media, Inc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 02:23:57 2007 From: sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Steve Harvey) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:23:57 -0500 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <200701311859.44748.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <1170254849.8678.2.camel@localhost> <20070131155204.GY7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20070201022357.GE91169@shell.vex.net> On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 06:59:44PM -0500, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Wednesday 31 January 2007 10:52, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > > Make that Core 2 Duo. The core Duo probably won't do it at all. > > Nope, core duo is fine as well. I have a Dell inspiron 6400 with a T2400 > (IIRC) ... definitely a core duo and definitely has VT. All core duos from > T2200 and up (if not earlier) should have VT capability. I've tried HP, > Toshiba and Dell laptops and all had VT enabled and working fine for Xen. It's unsafe to rely solely on marketing-generated brands. According to my research, T2300 is fine, T2300E not. Also not T2250. *Some* HPs have it disabled in the BIOS because they couldn't test the feature at the time (may need to wait for the BIOS upgrade if you're stuck with one). Even some of the Core 2 Duo chips don't have it, such as the T5500. More info at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Virtualization_Technology Your positive experience with the laptops you tried is encouraging to me as I'm tempted to just get an AMD-V machine. A footnote in www.intel.com/products/processor_number/proc_info_table.pdf also hints that just not any chipset will suffice. At this point in time, I'm not sure of the resolution status for various OSs/VMMs/chipsets with regard to IO virtualization issues. Assuming that certain Northbridge implementations have hardware assists for functions that would otherwise have to be carried out by a VMM (such as Xen 3.0+), I have not ascertained the reliability, security, and adequacy of performance of not using one of the sanctioned chipsets. I have found some ThinkPad T60s with 945GM or 945PM chipsets in a store where I've had to explain what virtualization is. I'm wondering if it is a safe assumption that they are safe to use given that 945G is. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 10:22:55 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 10:22:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: OS comparison Message-ID: Between A and B. Not about Linux. Do we (linuxers) *really* look up at these guys without having to redefine 'up' ?! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QdGt3ix2CQ Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 11:42:05 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 06:42:05 -0500 Subject: OS comparison In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e55af990702010342g565c6c76h7cb2a6a55aa67c14@mail.gmail.com> On 2/1/07, Peter P. wrote: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QdGt3ix2CQ Awesome. It makes me dislike Winders and Macks. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 11:53:33 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 06:53:33 -0500 Subject: OS comparison In-Reply-To: <1e55af990702010342g565c6c76h7cb2a6a55aa67c14-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990702010342g565c6c76h7cb2a6a55aa67c14@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990702010353m3b605ef5ta700069d48a51c04@mail.gmail.com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxOp5mBY9IY Macworld Boston 1997-The Microsoft Deal It opens with the patent cross-licensing stuff. So if the Apple guys had patented anything in OSX from 1997 and for 5 years, then Microsoft has it licensed. I smirked when near the end it talked about Mac + Windows is 100% of the desktop share. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 12:54:30 2007 From: interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Interlug Lists) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 07:54:30 -0500 Subject: Toronto Mapping Weekend Message-ID: <408ae1640702010454s3f6ab62fn2bf108e8b36cecd2@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, Linuxcaffe in Toronto has agreed to host the first OSM mapping weekend in North America. 17-18 February 2007 http://linuxcaffe.com/node/21951 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Toronto_Mapping_Weekend OpenStreetMap is a Linux / FLOSS project to collect and provide Open mapping data for everybody. There will be an introduction to OpenStreetMap presentation both days, as well as forays to collect map data to contribute to the project (weather permitting). So come for the Linuxy-goodness, the mapping-geekery or both. ( the venue serves the best hot chocolate on the planet, too! ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 13:41:02 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 08:41:02 -0500 Subject: event at linuxcaffe; KnoppMyth install demo with Teddy Mills Message-ID: Mr Mills will be at linuxcaffe to share his expertise in setting up MythTV, using KnoppMyth. If you have a computer that you would like to get going with this exciting software, pack it up and bring it along ! -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 14:27:49 2007 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 09:27:49 -0500 Subject: event at linuxcaffe; KnoppMyth install demo with Teddy Mills In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45C1F8E5.3090500@primus.ca> David J Patrick wrote: > Mr Mills will be at linuxcaffe to share his expertise in setting up > MythTV, using KnoppMyth. > If you have a computer that you would like to get going with this > exciting software, pack it up and bring it along ! From the "events" page at linuxcaffe: http://www.linuxcaffe.ca/node/21949 KnoppMyth with Teddy When: Start: Saturday, February 3, 2007 at 17:00 End: Saturday, February 3, 2007 at 19:00 Where: 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, ON, M6G 1H1 Sign up for KnopMyth with Teddy: http://www.linuxcaffe.ca/node/21949# Name, phone, and email is required for users who are not registered at this site. If you are a registered user at this site, please login to sign up for this event. (0 individuals signed up at 9:15 am, Feb. 1) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 15:50:10 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 10:50:10 -0500 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <200701311859.44748.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <1170254849.8678.2.camel@localhost> <20070131155204.GY7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20070201155010.GC7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 06:59:44PM -0500, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Nope, core duo is fine as well. I have a Dell inspiron 6400 with a T2400 > (IIRC) ... definitely a core duo and definitely has VT. All core duos from > T2200 and up (if not earlier) should have VT capability. I've tried HP, > Toshiba and Dell laptops and all had VT enabled and working fine for Xen. The table I found on intel's site I think said the 2300E does not, but the 2300 (no E) and up does. I guess E means 'economy', which of course means you don't get all the features but still get to pay plenty of money. :) > Wish I'd stuck with the Toshiba, it had Intel graphics. On the toshiba > graphics and suspend all worked out of the box - without ATI graphics not so > much, I suppose there are some functional ATI drivers that I could download > from somewhere but I'm too lazy to look ;-) Not necesarily. My experience has been that there really aren't fully functional drivers for an ATI. Mostly functional certainly, but never fully. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 15:55:19 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 10:55:19 -0500 Subject: Charting server load Message-ID: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Is there an easy, lightweight way to chart the loads on a server? I am one of many on a shared host that is obviously overloaded, and I want to see if I can get the provider to acknowledge that the machine needs upgrading or dividing. What I see is high availability (pings come back fast) but occasional high latency (40+ seconds to deliver a web page, 60+ seconds to establish an SSH connection) and high loads. When I see slowdowns and log into the box, uptime shows load averages in the 20s, 30s, 40s and even 50s. I don't know what those numbers mean, but they are a lot higher then I suspect is good for performance of the web sites on the machine. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 16:02:52 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 11:02:52 -0500 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <20070131233103.e09a8d68.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <20070131233103.e09a8d68.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <1170345772.8678.26.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 23:31 -0500, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:06:05 -0500 > Matt Price wrote: > > > Hi there, > > > > My girlfriend is buying a new computer a month or two from now and I'm > > hoping to convince her to let me install ubuntu feisty on it... > > > > So I am looking for stories from people who have done this successfully, > > and if possible some web postings that explain how easy it is to do, who > > transparently it works, and how happy customers are when they get a look > > at the superior OS which is GNUlinux (or ubuntu, or gentoo, or debian, > > or whatever). cross-posting to the 3 communities I sort of belong to > > (ubuntu, debian, toronto lug), sorry if you get multiple copies. > > > > Thanks loads! Looking forward to lots of success stories, > > > > Matt > > Matt, > > I picked up a second-hand Pentium III for my mom and I put Fedora Core_2 on it. My objective was to hand her a computer with an OS I understand and that I can reinstall if neccessary without violating anyone's intellectual property. My assumptions are that the machine will not slowly deteriorate in performance as spyware and other crap gets installed from internet, and that the machine will be reliable. > > So far, so good. I delivered the reliability I said that I would. > > She was unable to cancel a print job because she launched the print window, but did not realize she had to select a printer. Windows would have failed too. > > I advised her to use Open Office rather than AbiWord to prepare documents. AbiWord looked simpler to her, but I figure Open Office does everything, somehow. There is something to be said for bloatware. > > The main incompatibility between Open Office and Microsoft Word is that OO spaces its lines out more, messing up the formatting a bit. Other than that, you can generate documents in DOC format and switch back and forth between machines. > > I know nothing about endnote. > > The correct Microsoft Windows resource for editing HTML is NOTEPAD. A functional level of HTML can be taught in about an hour. Stylesheets can be figured out in an hour or two more. You can send her to http://www.WebPagesThatSuck.com to find out why the graphic editors, particularly Microsoft FrontPage, don't work very well. > I'm glad to hear hwo successful that worked with your mom, that's excellent. I think michelle is a slightly different use case. A few things: - in my experience going back and forth between OOo and MS Word usually introduces some formatting errors as you say, and they can be multiplied if the back-and-forth is extended. THere's also an o ccasional problem with bloating of the files. Since Michelle has lots of important docs (parts of books, finished books, articles, course outlines...) in .doc format, switching them over to .odt or .odp will be a hassle, and I don't want her to experience the shift to linux as a hassle. so I really do want to be sure she can use MS Office without difficulty. - right now endnote really is irreplaceable under GNU/linux. Endnote itself is a terrible, inflexible, incredibly frustrating product that changes its own undocumented standards with every release and is often self-incompatible, but since michelle has thousands of references in her EndNote db and also relies on it to format her citations within word, she needs it functionality. I hope that something much better will be available within say a year, through the zotero firefox extension and a redesigned bibliography component of OOo, but as I may have said already I've been thinking this is right around the bend for about 3 years. - I hate dreamweaver, but michelle's websites already feel like nothing but hassle for Michelle, and dreamweaver gives her a well-understood environment from which to edit her docs, maintain the web repository, and collaborate with her grad students; that's going to be hard for her to replace, and while I'd like to have that as a goal, it's something I would want for her to get weaned off of slowly. so I think my two options are really wine/crossover office, and virtualization through kvm. vmware's ok but pretty pokey in my experience. though of coursee the interface is very friendly and easy to use, which I guess is an advantage. Matt Matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 16:18:07 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 11:18:07 -0500 Subject: xrandr and nvidia [was: better multi-display support in X] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1170346687.8678.40.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 23:04 -0500, Tim Writer wrote: > "Jing Su" writes: > > > Hello, > > > > I have a laptop that I sometimes want to connect an external monitor > > to and have extra screen real-estate. So far, the only solution that > > really works for me is to restart X with Xinerama when I have the > > external monitor connected and restart X again when I disconnect to be > > on-the-go. > > > > This has really frustrated me because it's just not very friendly or > > smooth. I've tried running in dual-screen mode (having two different > > X screens) but it's annoying to not be able to juggle and move windows > > around. It's still the case then when I connect or reconnect I have > > to restart the apps that I want to move. > > > > Googling hasn't turned up many useful results for me on this topic. > > Has anyone else had better luck in terms of little utility programs or > > configs which make this a more bearable experience? > > xrandr combined with various dual head setups (Xinerama, radeon MergedFB, > ATI fglrx Big Desktop, or nVidia TwinView) _may_ do what you want. I > generally just switch between the builtin flat panel at 1024x768 and an > external flat panel at 1280x1024 (with my notebook closed) so YMMV. Note > that the proprietary ATI fglrx drivers have (some) hotplug support. nVidia > may have something similar. > I just finally got nvidia twinview working on my laptop and it's pretty cool, though I have trouble with the horizsync and vertsync when connecting to the projectors at work. actually sucked rather badly last week. in any case this solutionwill obviously only work if you have nvidia hardware and are willing to use the nonfree drivers. a further question w.r.t xrandr/twinview: I am able to switch between twinview configurations listed on the "multimodes" line of my xorg.conf, but only by using the graphical "nvidia-settings" program. My understanding is that I ought to be able to switch between them by using xrandr, like this: xrandr -o 2 xrandr -o 0 However, while xrandr -o 0 runs fine,, any other number produces an error: ~$ xrandr -o 1 X Error of failed request: BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes) Major opcode of failed request: 156 (RANDR) Minor opcode of failed request: 2 (RRSetScreenConfig) Serial number of failed request: 12 Current serial number in output stream: 12 ----------------------------------------------- I have what I think is a pretty good "device" section in my xorg.conf: Section "Device" Option "NvAGP" "1" Identifier "NVIDIA Corporation NVIDIA Default Card" Driver "nvidia" Option "NoLogo" "true" Option "ConnectedMonitor" "DFP-0, CRT-0" Option "UseDisplayDevice" "DFP-0, CRT-0" # Option "UseEdidFreqs" "false" Option "UseEdidFreqs" "true" Option "UseEDID" "true" # Option "UseEDID" "false" Option "TwinView" "true" Option "TwinViewOrientation" "LeftOf" # These sync options need to be changed to get the monitor to work with presentations Option "SecondMonitorHorizSync" "30-160" Option "SecondMonitorVertRefresh" "30-85" # playing with metamodes is probably a good idea, may be useful when doing presentations # nvidia-settings also always a good option. Option "metamodes" "CRT-0: 1280x1024 +1920+0, DFP-0: 1920x1200 +0+0; CRT-0: 1024x768 +1920+0, DFP-0: 1920x1200 +0+0; CRT-0: 800x600 +1920+0, DFP-0: 1920x1200 +0+0; CRT-0: nvidia-auto-select +1920+0, DFP-0: 1920x1200 +0+0; CRT-0: NULL, DFP-0: 1920x1200 +0+0" # Not sure if this xinerama option is good or not # Option "Xinerama" "on" Option "TwinViewXineramaInfoOrder" "DFP-0, CRT-0" # experiment with this to get it to work with my main screen # Option "DPI" "75 x 75" Option "DPI" "96 x 96" Option "UseEdidDpi" "false" Option "FlatPanelProperties" "Scaling = Centered, Dithering = Default" Option "AddARGBGLXVisuals" "true" Option "TripleBuffer" "true" EndSection with all of these options I can do most of what I want (though beryl and compiz currently both break when xinerama/twinview are switched on), but I would really like to be able to change configurations on the command-line. anyone know whether I'm doing something wrong? thanks, m -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 16:23:16 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 11:23:16 -0500 Subject: Autoflush USB thumb drive after copy In-Reply-To: References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <1170254849.8678.2.camel@localhost> <20070131155204.GY7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <45C145DC.2070302@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070201162316.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 10:14:53PM -0500, Jing Su wrote: > For performance Linux does not immediately commit writes. It is > recommended to umount, or else call sync several times to ensure full > flush. I would say umount is not recomended, it is mandetory. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 16:24:55 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 11:24:55 -0500 Subject: Autoflush USB thumb drive after copy In-Reply-To: <200701312300.11399.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <45C145DC.2070302@rogers.com> <200701312300.11399.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20070201162455.GE7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 11:00:11PM -0500, Fraser Campbell wrote: > I think you might get close to the behaviour that you want by arranging for > the filesystem to be mounted synchronously (sync option), dirsync might also > be needed, dunno. Which causes severe excesive wear on the flash memory. And kills performance. Very very bad idea, that earlier versions of some distributions did. > Keep in mind that even Windows forces you to "safely remove" hardware such as > this - though it may commit it's writes more quickly than Linux. Certainly the only way to know for sure the write is done. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 16:31:02 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 11:31:02 -0500 Subject: OT: Load balancing of 2 DSL connection In-Reply-To: <200702011427.23104.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200702011427.23104.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20070201163102.GF7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 02:27:22PM +0800, JM wrote: > does anyone here knows of a good load balancer DSL connections? Load balancing without cooporation from the ISP is basicly imposible. You can do special rules for certain types of traffic to use one link or the other (or the only one left if one breaks) but that is about it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 16:38:25 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 11:38:25 -0500 Subject: Charting server load In-Reply-To: <20070201155519.GA16957-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: The two tools that come to mind are top and xload. You probably have top, but xload is an X11 graphical tool that you may not be able to run. The load average is how many processes are ready to run at any given time. Depending on the hardware configuration, the limits to speed may be the hard drive sub-system, the amount of swap, the network or the processor throughput. For example, I have two types of CPU in my grid engine -- one is a 1GHz machine with 1/2G RAM, and the other is a beefier processor (2.5GHz perhaps) with 2G RAM. Some jobs that take 3-4 hours on the first class machine take about 10 minutes on the second class of machine, strictly because the swap is used less because there's more RAM. And I can see that by running top -- kswapd is taking 30-50% of the CPU, the task itself is getting about .1% of the CPU, and the rest is idle time, waiting for the hard drive subsystem. That's a situation where more RAM would help; unfortunately these motherboards are maxed out. If you're experiencing loads of 20, 30 and 40, it's time to move some processes (and probably users) to other boxes. Web pages should load in 1-3 seconds -- more than that (people have little patience when browsing) and you'll lose your audience. The load on my busiest server (doing both database and web server duties) peaked at around 8 yesterday while we processed almost 300 documents on the grid engine, but it settled down to a reasonable value of 4, and response time for web requests continued to be reasonable. You probably need to contact your web provider and ask them when the new boxes are being rolled out to lower the load. And if they're not being rolled out, think about finding a new web provider. (I can highly recommend pair.com -- FreeBSD servers, a great network and great customer service.) -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb On 2/1/07, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > > Is there an easy, lightweight way to chart the loads on a server? I am > one of many on a shared host that is obviously overloaded, and I want to > see if I can get the provider to acknowledge that the machine needs > upgrading or dividing. > > What I see is high availability (pings come back fast) but occasional > high latency (40+ seconds to deliver a web page, 60+ seconds to > establish an SSH connection) and high loads. When I see slowdowns and > log into the box, uptime shows load averages in the 20s, 30s, 40s and > even 50s. I don't know what those numbers mean, but they are a lot > higher then I suspect is good for performance of the web sites on the > machine. > > Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks. > -- > > yours, > > William > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFFwg1mHQtmiuz+KT8RAhEnAKCzxQtpVE6Kp84jiSf22QBTsU6EIACfVpkJ > Whj2mp2mVcKQ6755TdrU3jE= > =0SZ0 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 17:15:01 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 12:15:01 -0500 Subject: Charting server load In-Reply-To: References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070201171501.GB16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 11:38:25AM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote: > The two tools that come to mind are top and xload. You probably have top, > but xload is an X11 graphical tool that you may not be able to run. I've been looking at top, but I note that it is pretty CPU intensive, and I'm trying to lower the load as much as I can :-P > The load average is how many processes are ready to run at any given time. > Depending on the hardware configuration, the limits to speed may be the > hard drive sub-system, the amount of swap, the network or the processor > throughput. > > For example, I have two types of CPU in my grid engine -- one is a 1GHz > machine with 1/2G RAM, and the other is a beefier processor (2.5GHz > perhaps) with 2G RAM. Some jobs that take 3-4 hours on the first class > machine take about 10 minutes on the second class of machine, strictly > because the swap is used less because there's more RAM. > > And I can see that by running top -- kswapd is taking 30-50% of the CPU, > the task itself is getting about .1% of the CPU, and the rest is idle > time, waiting for the hard drive subsystem. That's a situation where more > RAM would help; unfortunately these motherboards are maxed out. That's quite helpful, thank you. All of the machines that I run have loads under 1, and so I have little experience with this type of thing. > You probably need to contact your web provider and ask them when the new > boxes are being rolled out to lower the load. And if they're not being > rolled out, think about finding a new web provider. (I can highly > recommend [1]pair.com -- FreeBSD servers, a great network and great > customer service.) I appreciate the advice - I'll contact the provider. As for pair, they are technically sound as you suggest, but because they are a US company I am uncomfortable with them legislatively. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 17:17:27 2007 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 12:17:27 -0500 Subject: Toshiba Satellite P100-MA1 Message-ID: Howdy, I was wondering if anyone on the list has had experience with this notebook (Toshiba Satellite P100-MA1) and linux. The satellite A20 I'm currently using is on its last legs. I like the P100-MA1 because it has a 17" wide screen and defaults to 1GB memory with a Core Duo processor. For the money, it seems to be a good buy; but I'll pass if its linux support is wanting. Thanks for the info, Randy -- Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world --John Lennon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 17:17:54 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 12:17:54 -0500 Subject: Autoflush USB thumb drive after copy In-Reply-To: <20070201162316.GD7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <1170254849.8678.2.camel@localhost> <20070131155204.GY7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <45C145DC.2070302@rogers.com> <20070201162316.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45C220C2.6030306@rogers.com> >> For performance Linux does not immediately commit writes. It is >> recommended to umount, or else call sync several times to ensure full >> flush. > I would say umount is not recomended, it is mandetory. Umm... totally defeats the purpose of being USB hotpluggable, doesn't it? If it's gonna behave like that, then ls shouldn't show it as being present until it's committed, like my other disks. Either it's on the bloody stick or it's not. My OS should not lie to me, and I shouldn't have to wonder where my files are. Here's what should happen: 1. I copy the file. 2. The file is copied. 3. If I pull it out while it's copying, then the file gets corrupted. 4. Done. And wearing out the memory? Dudes... at these costs, that's not an issue :) It's cheap and plentiful. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 17:43:47 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 12:43:47 -0500 Subject: Autoflush USB thumb drive after copy In-Reply-To: <45C220C2.6030306-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <1170254849.8678.2.camel@localhost> <20070131155204.GY7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <45C145DC.2070302@rogers.com> <20070201162316.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45C220C2.6030306@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070201174347.GG7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 12:17:54PM -0500, Byron Sonne wrote: > Umm... totally defeats the purpose of being USB hotpluggable, doesn't it? Hotplugable means you can connect and disconnect while powered. It has nothing to do with connecting and disconnecting while _IN_USE_. > If it's gonna behave like that, then ls shouldn't show it as being > present until it's committed, like my other disks. Either it's on the > bloody stick or it's not. Well you could turn of write caching if you don't want performance at all, and you could run with it mounted with sync if you don't care about the lifespan of the device, in which case yes it will not return until it is done writing. > My OS should not lie to me, and I shouldn't have to wonder where my > files are. Here's what should happen: > 1. I copy the file. > 2. The file is copied. > 3. If I pull it out while it's copying, then the file gets corrupted. > 4. Done. Well you can always do this then: cp .... sync When sync returns, then it is done. Of course you still have to umount the filesystem since that is the unix way, unless that is somehow handled automatically. Or call umount after the copy. when umount returns, it is done writing and unmounted. I personally love the fact I can mount a usb key of floppy, copy some stuff to it, edit some files on it, copy more stuff, rename a few things, all while the actualy writing is taking place. Why should we go back to the idiotic dos days where you had to wait for the computer to do every single step before it would even let you tell it what the next step was. You couldn't even type ahead anymore than the keyboard buffer (which I think was less than 50 characters). If you want to be sure something is done, use sync. That is what it is for. It tells the system to flsuh everything unwritten to disk and don't return until done that. > And wearing out the memory? Dudes... at these costs, that's not an issue > :) It's cheap and plentiful. Problem is it doesn't go from working to not working, it goes from working to working but unreliably and occationally corrupting bits, to not working at all. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 17:59:25 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 12:59:25 -0500 Subject: Toshiba Satellite P100-MA1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070201175925.GH7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 12:17:27PM -0500, Randy Jonasz wrote: > I was wondering if anyone on the list has had experience with this > notebook (Toshiba Satellite P100-MA1) and linux. The satellite A20 > I'm currently using is on its last legs. I like the P100-MA1 because > it has a 17" wide screen and defaults to 1GB memory with a Core Duo > processor. For the money, it seems to be a good buy; but I'll pass if > its linux support is wanting. Well specs look decent. Nvidia 7900 GS will certainly work with the binary nvidia driver, if it doesn't work with the open source nv driver. SATA drive should work if the kernel is new enough, unless they somehow managed to find a totally amazingly recent chipset no one has seen yet. Dell seems to be experts at doing that, but hopefully all that is resolved as of 2.6.18 or something around that level. The SATA dvd drive may not work yet, but I think it should (possible needing the libata.atapienabled=1 boot option until it becomes the kernel default, if it isn't already). 1440x900 screen (16:10) should be OK with the nvidia drivers. They are generally quite good at dealing with native LCD resolutions now. 2x1GB RAM seems nice. 120GB HD is about as large as they come (there are a few 160 or 200GB drives around, but they are new and not common yet). 5400rpm is among the faster laptop drives, although it doesn't help the battery life (neither does the 17" screen I guess). The 5-in-1 card reader will probably not work. If it is TI based at least. Someone is trying to reverse engineer the TI parts (I have seen them in HP and Compaq systems among others), so potentially some day they might work. Audio is intel (It must be an intel chipset), so it should work, if not now, then pretty soon. Pointing device is either normal PS/2 mouse compatible, or it might be an alps/synaptics pad, which there are drivers for. It may take soem X config tweaking to adjust the sensitivity (my wife's laptop has a synaptic touchpad and it was way way way too slow with the default settings). So well I would expect it to work fine with a VERY recent distribution release. Of course I don't have one so I can't say for sure, but at least the specs make it look like something I would try if I was to buy a laptop for linux use. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 18:14:23 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 13:13:23 +1859 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <1170345772.8678.26.camel@localhost> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <20070131233103.e09a8d68.hgibson@eol.ca> <1170345772.8678.26.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <7ac602420702011014u29c5bc54nd86567b13915ac73@mail.gmail.com> I'm a bit late to the party here, and I've only glanced over the discussion history, so sorry if anything I say has already been dismissed. > - right now endnote really is irreplaceable under GNU/linux. Endnote > itself is a terrible, inflexible, incredibly frustrating product that > changes its own undocumented standards with every release and is often > self-incompatible, but since michelle has thousands of references in her > EndNote db and also relies on it to format her citations within word, > she needs it functionality. I hope that something much better will be > available within say a year, through the zotero firefox extension and a > redesigned bibliography component of OOo, but as I may have said already > I've been thinking this is right around the bend for about 3 years. I understand your desire not to make Michelle switch cold turkey to anything vastly different from what she's used to--especially for applications in which she has a lot of vested interest such as Word--so I'm not advocating that. But, I wonder if your long term goal should be switching her to something based on LaTeX, rather than OOo. I used LyX throughout university to take notes, write papers, do assignments, etc. I still use it today for the occasional letter that I need to send to banks, clients, etc. because the results look so professional. The learning curve is a bit intimidating at first, but once you know how to use it, it's an incredibly productive tool. LyX even has an officially-supported Windows port, so she can give free copies to grad students unwilling to switch. I've never used BibTeX, but it sounds like a competitor to EndNote, only open and indefinitely self-compatible. Basically, I guess I'm saying that OOo is great for a lot of things, but it sounds like Michelle's usage pattern is better suited to LaTeX and its related tools and I think LyX could help her become productive with LaTeX in the long term. Of course, I share your belief that running Word via Wine or some kind of VM is the best strategy in the short term. Ian PS If my chatter regarding LyX seems at all useful to you, and you've never heard of it before, you can check out the home page at http://www.lyx.org -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 18:15:42 2007 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 13:15:42 -0500 Subject: NewTLUG Message-ID: <45C22E4E.2040000@yahoo.ca> Whom is managing the list over there? Something is borked as Mailman isn't accepting any connection to the admin page in order to change my options, using the following URL contained in the membership reminder rec'd this AM; ("CGI script error Error: No such list talk Delivered by Mailman version 2.1.5 Python Powered GNU's Not Unix"). Further more, e-mail to the list admin was returned as undeliverable. ? Thank-you. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 18:22:31 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 13:22:31 -0500 Subject: new Rogers terms of service In-Reply-To: <20070131181823.56751.qmail-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070131181823.56751.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 1/31/07, DANIEL GARDINER wrote: > > > --- "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: > > 14. You may not use the Services for anything > > other than your own > > personal use. You may not resell the Services, > > receive any charge or > > benefit for the use of the Services or provide > > internet access or any > > other feature of the Services to any third > > party. You may not share > > or transfer your Services without our express > > consent. > > > > a. the internet is about sharing. Is a web server > > sharing my Service > > when it sends a message to me?? > > > > b. does that mean that the rest of my household > > (family) cannot use the internet? > > I think they are trying to say that you can't hook > up a wireless router and allow/sell access to your > neighbour(hood). > > > 51. [WRT Television Services] Only one > > television or FM receiver may be > > attached to any outlet. ... > > > > Does this prohibit VCRs, PVRs, etc? > > I don't think so, it sounds more like the old mantra > of "if you want a tv in another room you need to put > in another outlet, you can't split the signal and run > a line to the other room". The last time I added outlets (a few years back), the Rogers guy told me there was one price for a single outlet, and another price for 2 or more outlets. I think I have six connections right now, and that mostly means connections to a VCR and then through to a TV .. so we could be recording and watching as many as 12 channels simultaneously. I'm sure that the average is less than 2. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 18:22:30 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 13:21:30 +1859 Subject: Charting server load In-Reply-To: <20070201171501.GB16957-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070201171501.GB16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <7ac602420702011022j1b2422dbm60a0f6fcfe6d1ece@mail.gmail.com> > That's quite helpful, thank you. All of the machines that I run have > loads under 1, and so I have little experience with this type of thing. I believe, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, that "maximum load" is the same as the number of CPUs in the system. In other words, if you have a uniprocessor, and the load is 1, then the CPU is always busy, but you haven't overloaded the system. In a dual-processor setup, you can run with a load of 2 and it's the same as a uniprocessor running at 1--both processors are maxed, but the system's not overloaded. So, assuming my understanding of the load number is correct, your web servers would need to be 40-processor machines to be able to run at a load of 40 without being overloaded. Or, turning that on its head, your hosting company has apparently oversold the server by a factor of 10 to 40, depending on how many cores are in the machine, which is unreasonable in my eyes, unless its costing you pennies. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 18:28:34 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 13:28:34 -0500 Subject: new Rogers terms of service In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1/30/07, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > I just got a new "terms of service" from Rogers. It is now unified to > cover all Rogers services. Things that I noted in my first quick > glance. This document doesn't seem to be online. > > Definition: > > "Equipment" means any device, equipment or hardware used to > access the Services or used in conjunction with the Services, > including any SIM (Subscriber Identity Module) card. > > This definition catches things I own, not just Rogers' property. > That makes a lot of things very wrong in the sequel. This doesn't sound like a bad thing. 14. You may not use the Services for anything other than your own > personal use. You may not resell the Services, receive any charge or > benefit for the use of the Services or provide internet access or any > other feature of the Services to any third party. You may not share > or transfer your Services without our express consent. > > a. the internet is about sharing. Is a web server sharing my Service > when it sends a message to me?? No, but if you re-sell web services to someone, and those services are being provided by Rogers through your account, then I imagine you'll be liable. b. does that mean that the rest of my household (family) cannot use the > internet? You family's use of the Internet connection probably falls under the umbrella of 'your own personal use'. Summary: I think that this is overreaching. Nah, it's just lawyers earning their salaries. 19. ... We may also access or preserve content or information to > comply with legal process in Canada or foreign jurisdictions, ... > > Notice the word "foreign". This is inappropriate and unacceptible. Unless the CIA gets involved in something that you're doing, I wouldn't worry about it. 51. [WRT Television Services] Only one television or FM receiver may be > attached to any outlet. ... > > Does this prohibit VCRs, PVRs, etc? The fragment you listed doesn't refer to those devices, so I'd interpret that as meaning that there are no limits. And no, I am not a lawyer. ;) -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 18:29:27 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 13:28:27 +1859 Subject: Toshiba Satellite P100-MA1 In-Reply-To: <20070201175925.GH7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201175925.GH7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420702011029y5636511fie5c29e259cd7c61b@mail.gmail.com> > SATA drive should work if the kernel is new enough, unless they somehow > managed to find a totally amazingly recent chipset no one has seen yet. > Dell seems to be experts at doing that, but hopefully all that is > resolved as of 2.6.18 or something around that level. The SATA dvd > drive may not work yet, but I think it should (possible needing the > libata.atapienabled=1 boot option until it becomes the kernel default, > if it isn't already). [snip] > Audio is intel (It must be an intel chipset), so it should work, if not > now, then pretty soon. I have a Dell Precision M90. It's got a SATA DVD drive and Intel's "High Definition" audio. The SATA DVD drive works like a dream--no problems at all. The HD Audio is strange. It "works", but I sometimes have to unload and reload the alsa modules if I want to switch between headphones and no headphones or vice versa. Makes me look like an idiot if I forget because I'm wearing headphones but the whole office can hear the music I'm listening to. Of course, my problems with the audio could have something to do with the motherboard, or something, and not be specific to Intel's audio chips. There are some other hardware weirdnesses on this machine, too, so it might be the specific combination I have. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 18:34:03 2007 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 13:34:03 -0500 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <7ac602420702011014u29c5bc54nd86567b13915ac73-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420702011014u29c5bc54nd86567b13915ac73@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: My experience is that Bibtex is very good and easy to use on linux or windows. But for someone who has all their references in endnote already is their an easy way to convert them to bibtex? On Fri, 2 Feb 2007, Ian Petersen wrote: > I'm a bit late to the party here, and I've only glanced over the > discussion history, so sorry if anything I say has already been > dismissed. > > > - right now endnote really is irreplaceable under GNU/linux. Endnote > > itself is a terrible, inflexible, incredibly frustrating product that > > changes its own undocumented standards with every release and is often > > self-incompatible, but since michelle has thousands of references in her > > EndNote db and also relies on it to format her citations within word, > > she needs it functionality. I hope that something much better will be > > available within say a year, through the zotero firefox extension and a > > redesigned bibliography component of OOo, but as I may have said already > > I've been thinking this is right around the bend for about 3 years. > > I understand your desire not to make Michelle switch cold turkey to > anything vastly different from what she's used to--especially for > applications in which she has a lot of vested interest such as > Word--so I'm not advocating that. But, I wonder if your long term > goal should be switching her to something based on LaTeX, rather than > OOo. > > I used LyX throughout university to take notes, write papers, do > assignments, etc. I still use it today for the occasional letter that > I need to send to banks, clients, etc. because the results look so > professional. The learning curve is a bit intimidating at first, but > once you know how to use it, it's an incredibly productive tool. LyX > even has an officially-supported Windows port, so she can give free > copies to grad students unwilling to switch. > > I've never used BibTeX, but it sounds like a competitor to EndNote, > only open and indefinitely self-compatible. > > Basically, I guess I'm saying that OOo is great for a lot of things, > but it sounds like Michelle's usage pattern is better suited to LaTeX > and its related tools and I think LyX could help her become productive > with LaTeX in the long term. Of course, I share your belief that > running Word via Wine or some kind of VM is the best strategy in the > short term. > > Ian > > PS If my chatter regarding LyX seems at all useful to you, and you've > never heard of it before, you can check out the home page at > http://www.lyx.org > > -- > Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? > Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 18:45:03 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 13:45:03 -0500 Subject: Adobe flash player within Konqueror? Message-ID: <45C2352F.4000608@telly.org> Hey all, I've downloaded the new Adobe Flash Player 9 and it works great within Firefox. However, I don't know how to get Konqueror to understand to open flv files using the plugin (it works fine on swf files). Using mplayer mighe be an option as a standalone, but it only plays flv videos silently. It's greatly appreciate if anyone could suggest a fix to either issue: - hearing audio properly when playing an flv file within mplayer - getting Konqueror to use the Adobe Firefox plugin to play flv files Thanks! - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 19:00:00 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 14:00:00 -0500 Subject: Charting server load In-Reply-To: <7ac602420702011022j1b2422dbm60a0f6fcfe6d1ece-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070201171501.GB16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <7ac602420702011022j1b2422dbm60a0f6fcfe6d1ece@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2/1/07, Ian Petersen wrote: > > > That's quite helpful, thank you. All of the machines that I run have > > loads under 1, and so I have little experience with this type of thing. > > I believe, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, that "maximum > load" is the same as the number of CPUs in the system. In other > words, if you have a uniprocessor, and the load is 1, then the CPU is > always busy, but you haven't overloaded the system. In a > dual-processor setup, you can run with a load of 2 and it's the same > as a uniprocessor running at 1--both processors are maxed, but the > system's not overloaded. Ian's quite right .. depending on the version of top that's available, you may get a lins starting with 'CPU states' for each processor, or you may just get a single line starting with 'Cpu(s):' A single processor machine might look like this: 13:52:55 up 2 days, 7:28, 7 users, load average: 0.07, 0.06, 0.09 89 processes: 88 sleeping, 1 running, 0 zombie, 0 stopped CPU states: 2.8% user 0.4% system 0.0% nice 0.0% iowait 96.7% idle Mem: 513772k av, 504120k used, 9652k free, 0k shrd, 82244k buff 389064k actv, 0k in_d, 10468k in_c Swap: 1044184k av, 13608k used, 1030576k free 274352k cached PID USER PRI NI SIZE RSS SHARE STAT %CPU %MEM TIME CPU COMMAND 15726 alex 20 0 1144 1144 864 R 0.9 0.2 0:00 0 top 1 root 15 0 480 452 424 S 0.0 0.0 0:04 0 init 2 root 15 0 0 0 0 SW 0.0 0.0 0:00 0 keventd 3 root 15 0 0 0 0 SW 0.0 0.0 0:01 0 kapmd 4 root 34 19 0 0 0 SWN 0.0 0.0 0:00 0 ksoftirqd_CPU 9 root 25 0 0 0 0 SW 0.0 0.0 0:00 0 bdflush 5 root 15 0 0 0 0 SW 0.0 0.0 0:00 0 kswapd 6 root 15 0 0 0 0 SW 0.0 0.0 0:00 0 kscand/DMA ... and a multi-processor machine might look like this: top - 13:53:14 up 389 days, 8:03, 1 user, load average: 0.03, 0.01, 0.00 Tasks: 106 total, 1 running, 105 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie Cpu(s): 0.0% us, 0.0% sy, 0.0% ni, 99.9% id, 0.0% wa, 0.0% hi, 0.0% si Mem: 2074712k total, 1084732k used, 989980k free, 166684k buffers Swap: 4194296k total, 0k used, 4194296k free, 359816k cached PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 12858 openvpn 15 0 7464 4536 1144 S 2.0 0.2 11:03.81openvpn 1 root 16 0 1744 568 492 S 0.0 0.0 0:16.26init 2 root RT 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:15.90migration/0 3 root 34 19 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00ksoftirqd/0 4 root RT 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:09.78migration/1 5 root 34 19 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00ksoftirqd/1 6 root RT 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:07.55migration/2 7 root 39 19 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00ksoftirqd/2 8 root RT 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:16.08migration/3 9 root 39 19 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00ksoftirqd/3 10 root 10 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:14.95events/0 11 root 10 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:02.35events/1 12 root 10 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:01.45events/2 13 root 10 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.44events/3 14 root 10 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.01 khelper ... Note that for the multi-processor machine there are multiple event queues. So, assuming my understanding of the load number is correct, your web > servers would need to be 40-processor machines to be able to run at a > load of 40 without being overloaded. Or, turning that on its head, > your hosting company has apparently oversold the server by a factor of > 10 to 40, depending on how many cores are in the machine, which is > unreasonable in my eyes, unless its costing you pennies. Right -- it may be that it's a dual or quad machine that's just keeping busy, but my guess is that it's a single processor machine that the web provider is making plenty of money from. Try the command $ cat /proc/cpuinfo and see what it says -- it should list the available processors on the system. The first system shown above has a single 1GHz processor with 256K cache; the second one has four 2.4GHz processors, each with 512K cache. Bogomips numbers are 2005 and 4799, respectively. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 20:18:04 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 15:18:04 -0500 Subject: Charting server load In-Reply-To: <7ac602420702011022j1b2422dbm60a0f6fcfe6d1ece-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070201171501.GB16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <7ac602420702011022j1b2422dbm60a0f6fcfe6d1ece@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070201201804.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 01:21:30PM +1859, Ian Petersen wrote: > I believe, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, that "maximum > load" is the same as the number of CPUs in the system. In other > words, if you have a uniprocessor, and the load is 1, then the CPU is > always busy, but you haven't overloaded the system. In a > dual-processor setup, you can run with a load of 2 and it's the same > as a uniprocessor running at 1--both processors are maxed, but the > system's not overloaded. > > So, assuming my understanding of the load number is correct, your web > servers would need to be 40-processor machines to be able to run at a > load of 40 without being overloaded. Or, turning that on its head, > your hosting company has apparently oversold the server by a factor of > 10 to 40, depending on how many cores are in the machine, which is > unreasonable in my eyes, unless its costing you pennies. Well not quite. A load of less than 1.00 (on a single cpu system) means you are not running at 100% cpu load. On the other hand you could have the system running at 100% cpu, but having it running 50 tasks at the same time, which would be a load of 50. The load is simply: On average how many processes are in the 'ready to run' state. If on average, 0.5 processes are ready to run, then you can only be using 50% cpu, while if 3 processes are, then you must be running at 100% cpu, unless you have more than 3 processors. Of course a system with a load of 50 might be doing fine and be perfectly responsive, while another with a load of 5 might be bogged down with too much memory and disk io and be very slow at responding. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 20:19:21 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 15:19:21 -0500 Subject: Toshiba Satellite P100-MA1 In-Reply-To: <7ac602420702011029y5636511fie5c29e259cd7c61b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201175925.GH7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420702011029y5636511fie5c29e259cd7c61b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070201201921.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 01:28:27PM +1859, Ian Petersen wrote: > I have a Dell Precision M90. It's got a SATA DVD drive and Intel's > "High Definition" audio. The SATA DVD drive works like a dream--no > problems at all. The HD Audio is strange. It "works", but I > sometimes have to unload and reload the alsa modules if I want to > switch between headphones and no headphones or vice versa. Makes me > look like an idiot if I forget because I'm wearing headphones but the > whole office can hear the music I'm listening to. > > Of course, my problems with the audio could have something to do with > the motherboard, or something, and not be specific to Intel's audio > chips. There are some other hardware weirdnesses on this machine, > too, so it might be the specific combination I have. I seem to recall emails on lkml about intel hd audio bugs in alsa recently, so it is probably just a bug that is being worked on. Good to know the SATA drive is working fine. Which kernel and distribution is that with though? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 20:22:53 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 15:22:53 -0500 Subject: new Rogers terms of service In-Reply-To: References: <20070131181823.56751.qmail@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070201202253.GK7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:22:31PM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote: > The last time I added outlets (a few years back), the Rogers guy told me > there was one price for a single outlet, and another price for 2 or more > outlets. I think I have six connections right now, and that mostly means > connections to a VCR and then through to a TV .. so we could be recording > and watching as many as 12 channels simultaneously. I'm sure that the > average is less than 2. I remember reading in some of the documentation, that yes it is one price for 1 outlet, and another for multi outlet up to 4. If you want more than 4 you have to pay a one time fee for an amplifier as far as I recall to boost the signal to allow splitting it more (I think up to 8 outlets). Of course when I had cable installed they installed a 4 way splitter, and it made the digital cable box fail to tune a lot of channels. Problem disappeared when I removed the splitter and ran the cable to a single outlet with the cable box. Apparently the wiring in the house is just too crappy, so I added my own signal amplifier before the 4 way splitter and it solved the problem. Replacing the cable in the house with better quality might be a better plan, but I don't want to mess with that myself and don't want to pay for it either. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 20:24:26 2007 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 15:24:26 -0500 Subject: Toshiba Satellite P100-MA1 In-Reply-To: <7ac602420702011029y5636511fie5c29e259cd7c61b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201175925.GH7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420702011029y5636511fie5c29e259cd7c61b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks all for replying. Len, as usual, you're informative and thorough. I can now switch my lobbying efforts to high gear and get my boss to buy me this toy, er tool. :) Cheers, Randy -- Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world --John Lennon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 20:54:49 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 15:54:49 -0500 Subject: Toshiba Satellite P100-MA1 In-Reply-To: <20070201201921.GJ7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201175925.GH7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420702011029y5636511fie5c29e259cd7c61b@mail.gmail.com> <20070201201921.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420702011254n13813060q454ffdfb5a0a3bc1@mail.gmail.com> > I seem to recall emails on lkml about intel hd audio bugs in alsa > recently, so it is probably just a bug that is being worked on. That's encouraging--I assumed it was a hardware issue because it does other weird things, like randomly panicking on boot because it can't find the hard disk (don't remember the exact wording--I just reboot when it happens), or randomly appearing to power on but not getting to a POST never mind booting (the LEDs turn on, but the screen stays black and there's no apparent hard drive activity). I paid for Dell's idiot insurance, so I should probably talk to tech support, but my list of things to do is long and the machine usually works, even if it takes a couple of boots. > Good to know the SATA drive is working fine. Which kernel and > distribution is that with though? I'm a bit of a Gentoo fanboy (*boo hiss*). Here's the output of uname -a: Linux samwise 2.6.18-gentoo-r3 #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Nov 30 12:12:23 EST 2006 i686 Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T7200 @ 2.00GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 21:03:31 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 16:03:31 -0500 Subject: Charting server load In-Reply-To: <20070201201804.GI7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070201171501.GB16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <7ac602420702011022j1b2422dbm60a0f6fcfe6d1ece@mail.gmail.com> <20070201201804.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420702011303m7ab35a7r6a81980edea782f7@mail.gmail.com> > Of course a system with a load of 50 might be doing fine and be > perfectly responsive, while another with a load of 5 might be bogged > down with too much memory and disk io and be very slow at responding. I can see how a system with high load might still be responsive because I would define responsive as "responds nearly immediately to user input" where "user input" could be defined as key presses, mouse movements, ssh connection requests, etc. This could easily be accomplished by running user-facing processes at high priority so that user input forces the relevant processes onto the CPU. On the other hand, a non-hyperthreaded, single-core uniprocessor can still only do "one thing at a time", ignoring vector instructions, so if, for the last minute, there was an average of 50 ready processes in the run-queue, how is that not "overloaded"? A load of 50, to me, means that at any given moment the kernel had 50 things to do but had to pick one (or N on an N-core system). If I had 50 things to do at any given moment and was restricted to doing only one at a time, I'd feel pretty stressed. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 21:16:30 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 16:16:30 -0500 Subject: Charting server load In-Reply-To: <20070201201804.GI7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <7ac602420702011022j1b2422dbm60a0f6fcfe6d1ece@mail.gmail.com> <20070201201804.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200702011616.30986.softquake@gmail.com> On Thursday 01 February 2007 15:18, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 01:21:30PM +1859, Ian Petersen wrote: > > The load is simply: On average how many processes are in the 'ready to > run' state. If on average, 0.5 processes are ready to run, then you can > only be using 50% cpu, while if 3 processes are, then you must be > running at 100% cpu, unless you have more than 3 processors. Not quite true. In case of Linux, it is not only the number of processes that counts but also the number of attempts to read or write to a file (writing in particular is time consuming). Hence, CPU might be using 5% of its ability, RAM might be used in 10% only, while load might go to 50 and the computer will slow down tremendously when for instance a heavy usage of database takes place. Adding CPU or RAM will... surprise, surprise! will NOT help! The system spends simply too much time in a state when attempts to get to hard drive are done. I observed that situation when experimenting with postgres. Solution which is used in similar cases is... putting postgres data to RAM instead on HD. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 21:35:48 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 16:35:48 -0500 Subject: Toshiba Satellite P100-MA1 In-Reply-To: <7ac602420702011254n13813060q454ffdfb5a0a3bc1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201175925.GH7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420702011029y5636511fie5c29e259cd7c61b@mail.gmail.com> <20070201201921.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420702011254n13813060q454ffdfb5a0a3bc1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070201213548.GL7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 03:54:49PM -0500, Ian Petersen wrote: > That's encouraging--I assumed it was a hardware issue because it does > other weird things, like randomly panicking on boot because it can't > find the hard disk (don't remember the exact wording--I just reboot > when it happens), or randomly appearing to power on but not getting to > a POST never mind booting (the LEDs turn on, but the screen stays > black and there's no apparent hard drive activity). I paid for Dell's > idiot insurance, so I should probably talk to tech support, but my > list of things to do is long and the machine usually works, even if it > takes a couple of boots. That does sound like a hardware problem. :) > I'm a bit of a Gentoo fanboy (*boo hiss*). Here's the output of uname -a: > > Linux samwise 2.6.18-gentoo-r3 #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Nov 30 12:12:23 EST > 2006 i686 Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T7200 @ 2.00GHz GenuineIntel > GNU/Linux OK, so 2.6.18 is looking like most SATA issues are fixed. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 21:40:06 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 16:40:06 -0500 Subject: Charting server load In-Reply-To: <7ac602420702011303m7ab35a7r6a81980edea782f7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070201171501.GB16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <7ac602420702011022j1b2422dbm60a0f6fcfe6d1ece@mail.gmail.com> <20070201201804.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420702011303m7ab35a7r6a81980edea782f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070201214006.GM7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 04:03:31PM -0500, Ian Petersen wrote: > I can see how a system with high load might still be responsive > because I would define responsive as "responds nearly immediately to > user input" where "user input" could be defined as key presses, mouse > movements, ssh connection requests, etc. This could easily be > accomplished by running user-facing processes at high priority so that > user input forces the relevant processes onto the CPU. > > On the other hand, a non-hyperthreaded, single-core uniprocessor can > still only do "one thing at a time", ignoring vector instructions, so > if, for the last minute, there was an average of 50 ready processes in > the run-queue, how is that not "overloaded"? A load of 50, to me, > means that at any given moment the kernel had 50 things to do but had > to pick one (or N on an N-core system). If I had 50 things to do at > any given moment and was restricted to doing only one at a time, I'd > feel pretty stressed. If the 50 processes each needed 2.01% of the cpu to get all their work done all the time, then you are only overloaded by 0.5%, so really you are keeping up with the load. If even one of the processes was to be stopped, your load should actually drop quickly to less than 1 since it would suddenly be able to keep up with all the work. Load averages are rather weird that way. Another system could have 2 tasks running which both need all the cpu they can get, which would mean by some definitions that the system is overloaded by 100%, although of course if they are really cpu bound no matter how fast your cpu, they would still want 100% of it until the task is done. You could have 2 tasks, each of which need 75% of the cpu to get all their work done real time, but by having two, you get a load average of 2 and both tasks are not quite keeping up with their work in real time. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 22:09:32 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 17:09:32 -0500 Subject: Charting server load In-Reply-To: <20070201214006.GM7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070201171501.GB16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <7ac602420702011022j1b2422dbm60a0f6fcfe6d1ece@mail.gmail.com> <20070201201804.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420702011303m7ab35a7r6a81980edea782f7@mail.gmail.com> <20070201214006.GM7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420702011409w2756fb9fpfed8dee06584e146@mail.gmail.com> > If the 50 processes each needed 2.01% of the cpu to get all their work > done all the time, then you are only overloaded by 0.5%, so really you > are keeping up with the load. If even one of the processes was to be > stopped, your load should actually drop quickly to less than 1 since it > would suddenly be able to keep up with all the work. Load averages are > rather weird that way. [snip] OK, that makes a certain amount of sense, but I still feel unconvinced. The load average is exactly that: an average. A load of 50 says that, over the last minute, every time the run queue was sampled (how often does that happen anyway?) there were 50 processes "ready to go". Now, if all of our 50 hypothetical processes need 2.01% of the CPU to get all their work done, shouldn't each one show up in roughly 2.01% of the samples? If that's true, then each sample would see, on average, one process in the ready state and the load would be one (well, 1.05 since we're talking 2.01% not 2%). On the other hand, if the sampling mechanism samples N times for a minute and the average sample sees 50 processes in the ready state, then the load is 50 because the kernel "always" had 50 choices of things to do during the last minute. I don't see how you can arrive at that state with 50 processes that need ~2% of the CPU each. Such a state sounds to me like 50 CPU-bound processes. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 22:42:17 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 17:42:17 -0500 Subject: Nice surprise , w.r.t. linux hardware compat. Message-ID: <1170369737.4405.544.camel@stan64.site> i needed to assess the ability a group of people that is 500-1000 that run a live linux distro, that may run into problems with usb chip set compat. (specifically new dell 521 line that has a usb bug). So i order four pci usb expansion cards from tiger today, and am ready to plug them in and see if linux might work with them, I pick up the Trendnet 5-port usb 2.0 pci card, right on front it states: Compatibility: "Windows 98SE/ME/2000/XP, Linux, Max OS" man!! even shown before Mac OS! and it can't be because of alphabetical order cause Windows was listed first. i also got three usb sound adapters to check out, linux recognizes all three by name, but in my SLED sound config panel it doesnt see them, but alsa utils does, but i have yet to figure out how to get suse to work with them got a Plextor usb external 16x DVD as well, ran right away and i did a 10MB/second DVD sio transfer, but main thing i have to check is if it can be booted from, as some of my linux users , maybe 1-2 in 100 are getting new mobo's with chip sets that have dropped pata drivers or something and screwed up the ability to do a linux live distro boot, so i am hoping if the mobo supports boot from usb (and in turn dvd on usb bus) it will fix that. will be interesting to see out of the 3-4 usb/pci cards i got, if they all work and how well. now if i could just figure out how to get the usb sound adapters to work (they get detected, and i can talk to them via alsamixer, etc), but i need for them to be "automatically usable" from apps in suse and that isn't happening for some reason :( one of them on detect sets up /dev/audio1 /dev/dsp1 /dev/mixer1 which makes me think if my internal sound card is disabled it will assign itself the base /dev/audio /dev/dsp and just work, but be nice to figure out how to use a usb sound adapter and a builtin one at the same time. -tl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 22:45:08 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 17:45:08 -0500 Subject: Charting server load In-Reply-To: <7ac602420702011409w2756fb9fpfed8dee06584e146-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070201171501.GB16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <7ac602420702011022j1b2422dbm60a0f6fcfe6d1ece@mail.gmail.com> <20070201201804.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420702011303m7ab35a7r6a81980edea782f7@mail.gmail.com> <20070201214006.GM7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420702011409w2756fb9fpfed8dee06584e146@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070201224508.GN7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 05:09:32PM -0500, Ian Petersen wrote: > OK, that makes a certain amount of sense, but I still feel unconvinced. > > The load average is exactly that: an average. A load of 50 says that, > over the last minute, every time the run queue was sampled (how often > does that happen anyway?) there were 50 processes "ready to go". > > Now, if all of our 50 hypothetical processes need 2.01% of the CPU to > get all their work done, shouldn't each one show up in roughly 2.01% > of the samples? If that's true, then each sample would see, on > average, one process in the ready state and the load would be one > (well, 1.05 since we're talking 2.01% not 2%). Depends when it is samples, and how the load is distributed by the processes. > On the other hand, if the sampling mechanism samples N times for a > minute and the average sample sees 50 processes in the ready state, > then the load is 50 because the kernel "always" had 50 choices of > things to do during the last minute. I don't see how you can arrive > at that state with 50 processes that need ~2% of the CPU each. Such a > state sounds to me like 50 CPU-bound processes. They may be processing data coming in a serial or network port. Not everything is cpu bound. Or every xxx ms they wake up and do a certain amount of work and go to sleep again. Certainly most of the time, a higher load means a busier system, but it does depend on the type of processes it is running. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 22:47:30 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 17:47:30 -0500 Subject: Nice surprise , w.r.t. linux hardware compat. In-Reply-To: <1170369737.4405.544.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1170369737.4405.544.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <20070201224730.GO7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 05:42:17PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > > i needed to assess the ability a group of people that is 500-1000 that > run a live linux distro, that may run into problems with usb chip set > compat. (specifically new dell 521 line that has a usb bug). > > So i order four pci usb expansion cards from tiger today, > and am ready to plug them in and see if linux might work with them, > > I pick up the Trendnet 5-port usb 2.0 pci card, > > right on front it states: > > Compatibility: "Windows 98SE/ME/2000/XP, Linux, Max OS" > > man!! even shown before Mac OS! > and it can't be because of alphabetical order cause Windows was listed > first. > > > i also got three usb sound adapters to check out, linux recognizes all > three by name, but in my SLED sound config panel it doesnt see them, but > alsa utils does, but i have yet to figure out how to get suse to work > with them > > got a Plextor usb external 16x DVD as well, ran right away and i did a > 10MB/second DVD sio transfer, but main thing i have to check is if it > can be booted from, as some of my linux users , maybe 1-2 in 100 are > getting new mobo's with chip sets that have dropped pata drivers or > something and screwed up the ability to do a linux live distro boot, so > i am hoping if the mobo supports boot from usb (and in turn dvd on usb > bus) it will fix that. > > will be interesting to see out of the 3-4 usb/pci cards i got, if they > all work and how well. > > now if i could just figure out how to get the usb sound adapters to work > (they get detected, and i can talk to them via alsamixer, etc), but i > need for them to be "automatically usable" from apps in suse and > that isn't happening for some reason :( > > one of them on detect sets up /dev/audio1 /dev/dsp1 /dev/mixer1 which > makes me think if my internal sound card is disabled it will assign > itself the base /dev/audio /dev/dsp and just work, but > be nice to figure out how to use a usb sound adapter and a builtin one > at the same time. You can create a .asoundrc for the user to control which device to use by default. Or you could make sure to load the usb audio driver before the onboard audio driver, assuming the usb audio is always plugged in. Selecting which audio device to use is always a bit of a pain. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 1 23:56:27 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 18:56:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Load balancing of 2 DSL connection In-Reply-To: <200702011427.23104.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200702011427.23104.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Feb 2007, JM wrote: > > hi, > does anyone here knows of a good load balancer DSL connections? You can use iproute2 to load balance the links. You can even weight the links (so if one is twice as fast as the other you can push packets out in a 2:1 ratio). Last time I did this fail-over was not it's strong point. If you don't want to do that you can split the 'net in 2 (as I did once) and route half out one link and half out the other :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 00:31:43 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 19:31:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Charting server load In-Reply-To: <7ac602420702011409w2756fb9fpfed8dee06584e146-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070201171501.GB16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <7ac602420702011022j1b2422dbm60a0f6fcfe6d1ece@mail.gmail.com> <20070201201804.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420702011303m7ab35a7r6a81980edea782f7@mail.gmail.com> <20070201214006.GM7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420702011409w2756fb9fpfed8dee06584e146@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Feb 2007, Ian Petersen wrote: > [snip] > > OK, that makes a certain amount of sense, but I still feel unconvinced. > > The load average is exactly that: an average. A load of 50 says that, > over the last minute, every time the run queue was sampled (how often > does that happen anyway?) there were 50 processes "ready to go". It doesn't really need to "sample" afaik as the kernels knows how many processes are flagged to run each timeslice since it is moving them in and out of the run queue. It only needs to count them and it probably has to do that anyway. > Now, if all of our 50 hypothetical processes need 2.01% of the CPU to > get all their work done, shouldn't each one show up in roughly 2.01% > of the samples? If that's true, then each sample would see, on > average, one process in the ready state and the load would be one > (well, 1.05 since we're talking 2.01% not 2%). This logic sounds spot on to me. At any given time approximately 49 of the 50 processes are not asking for the cpu because they are i/o bound at the time. Thus the load would indeed be approximately 1.05 as you say. Getting back to William's original question, a load of 50 would mean that the system is sustaining a cpu bound situation which translates to an overloaded system in my books since processes are getting far less time on the cpu than they need to run optimally. A cpu bound system which was not also heavily i/o loaded may respond quite well to interactive use (ie, the shell may seem to be responding fine to many commands) but this is because in general interactive use demands little of a system. If you are typing, a modern computer is quite capable of servicing many processes between your keystrokes. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 02:02:38 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 21:02:38 -0500 Subject: Charting server load In-Reply-To: References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <7ac602420702011409w2756fb9fpfed8dee06584e146@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200702012102.38526.softquake@gmail.com> On Thursday 01 February 2007 19:31, Robert Brockway wrote: > Getting back to William's original question, a load of 50 would mean that > the system is sustaining a cpu bound situation which translates to an > overloaded system in my books since processes are getting far less time on > the cpu than they need to run optimally. There seems to be a lot of confusion around about how load is defined. And indeed, it seems that it is defined differently on various systems. On Linux, a process that waits for I/O results counts to load. This means that load may be huge while CPU and RAM are almost not used. Just HD is busy... But still that makes sense. If HD is busy it is hard to drive.. Situations are possible when adding CPU power or RAM available or amount of swap will not help. HD capability is a something that can not be easy jumped over. When the load is huge - something goes wrong. May be just badly designed database queries? Too many users on the system? For some users, large load may have no influence on their activity. For others, might be devastating. Depending on what they are doing and what is the reason of "high load". zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 03:26:07 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 22:26:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Toshiba Satellite P100-MA1 In-Reply-To: <20070201175925.GH7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201175925.GH7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | The 5-in-1 card reader will probably not work. If it is TI based at | least. Someone is trying to reverse engineer the TI parts (I have seen | them in HP and Compaq systems among others), so potentially some day | they might work. If it is like the one in my 2 or 3 year old HP notebook, it is a scandal, as far as I'm concernted: there is a Linux driver but you need the firmware slug to upload. That slug is in the MS Windows driver, encrypted. The encryption has been reverse engineered, but the person who has done it is scared to publish the method. I'm sure the encryption is easy to figure out, but I'm not about to bother. Neither HP nor TI have released the slug. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 03:57:21 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 22:57:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: Autoflush USB thumb drive after copy In-Reply-To: <20070201174347.GG7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <1170254849.8678.2.camel@localhost> <20070131155204.GY7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <45C145DC.2070302@rogers.com> <20070201162316.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45C220C2.6030306@rogers.com> <20070201174347.GG7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 12:17:54PM -0500, Byron Sonne wrote: | > If it's gonna behave like that, then ls shouldn't show it as being | > present until it's committed, like my other disks. Either it's on the | > bloody stick or it's not. Your other disks (on Linux) are exactly like the USB stick. If you remove your hard drive before unmounting, you will get exactly the same problem. (Power failure has this effect.) Ditto for floppies. | Well you could turn of write caching if you don't want performance at | all, and you could run with it mounted with sync if you don't care about | the lifespan of the device, in which case yes it will not return until | it is done writing. The mount(8) manpage defines sync: sync All I/O to the file system should be done synchronously. In case of media with limited number of write cycles (e.g. some flash drives) "sync" may cause life-cycle shortening. With sync, I think that each write(1) operation would have its bits sent to the device before the system call returned (that's my literal interpretation). This could be gruesome, depending on the size of the writes. One theoretically pure approach would be to never mount the device and use mcopy to write files (to some kind of FAT filesystem). But I agree with Lennart that explicit unmounting (perhaps through a GUI) is the right way to go. This is also true of floppies. I always thought Apple had the right idea when they made the eject function be mediated by the OS (unless you used a paperclip). Now we have USB with that same old problem. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 13:04:53 2007 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 08:04:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Load balancing of 2 DSL connection In-Reply-To: References: <200702011427.23104.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <30340.72.38.22.170.1170421493.squirrel@72.38.22.170> www.hotbrick.ca sells several router type boxes that support load balancing. Might be worth a look. Stephen > On Thu, 1 Feb 2007, JM wrote: > >> >> hi, >> does anyone here knows of a good load balancer DSL connections? > > You can use iproute2 to load balance the links. You can even weight the > links (so if one is twice as fast as the other you can push packets out in > a 2:1 ratio). Last time I did this fail-over was not it's strong point. > > If you don't want to do that you can split the 'net in 2 (as I did once) > and route half out one link and half out the other :) > > Rob > > -- > Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 > Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 > OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org > Web: www.opentrend.net > Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA Tel: (905) 627-1302 x14 Fax: (905) 627-5022 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 15:20:20 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 10:20:20 -0500 Subject: Toshiba Satellite P100-MA1 In-Reply-To: References: <20070201175925.GH7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070202152020.GP7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 10:26:07PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > If it is like the one in my 2 or 3 year old HP notebook, it is a > scandal, as far as I'm concernted: there is a Linux driver but you > need the firmware slug to upload. That slug is in the MS Windows > driver, encrypted. The encryption has been reverse engineered, but > the person who has done it is scared to publish the method. > > I'm sure the encryption is easy to figure out, but I'm not about to > bother. > > Neither HP nor TI have released the slug. I don't have much hope for it either. Then again in the case of my wife's laptop the thing is useless in windows too. It doesn't work with cards bigger than 512M for some reason, so her 1GB card from the camera doesn't work. Plugging in the camera works, using the card reader in the usb connected printer works fine, using an external card reader on usb works fine. Just the TI crap doesn't work. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 15:35:04 2007 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 10:35:04 -0500 Subject: OT: Load balancing of 2 DSL connection In-Reply-To: <200702011427.23104.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200702011427.23104.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: On 2/1/07, JM wrote: > > > hi, > does anyone here knows of a good load balancer DSL connections? > > thanks, pfsense (http://www.pfsense.com/) is a BSD based router package that supports load balancing. Although, I think only one of them can be a PPPoE connection. Can't vouch for the load balancing component though I use it in a non-load balanced environment and it's pretty decent. Might be worth looking at, as there are ways around the PPPoE limitations. Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 17:18:19 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 12:18:19 -0500 Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... Message-ID: <45C3725B.6010507@telly.org> http://www.crncanada.ca/content/software/opinion-this-publicity-li.shtml Kinda makes me proud that I unsubscribed from the ubuntu-ca mailing list a few weeks ago. Geez, how can such good software so badly represent itself to the public? I have to generally agree with the author about the sheer stupidity of this action. Can I assume that TLUG had nothing to do with it? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 17:20:45 2007 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 12:20:45 -0500 Subject: File to Serial Message-ID: <45C372ED.7070306@alteeve.com> How can I copy a file to the serial port? I know there is a way, but I have forgotten. And nolonger have the book I read it in... Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 17:27:08 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 12:27:08 -0500 Subject: Autoflush USB thumb drive after copy In-Reply-To: <45C220C2.6030306-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <1170254849.8678.2.camel@localhost> <20070131155204.GY7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <45C145DC.2070302@rogers.com> <20070201162316.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45C220C2.6030306@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280702020927q3106125fu316ecc564b74379a@mail.gmail.com> Byron, If you're wondering why this caching system was put in place, think back to running programs off a floppy under DOS. Umm - assuming of course that you ever did that. I remember it, and coming to Linux was a revelation. If you ran a program off a floppy under DOS, it would usually take between 15 and 30 seconds to load. Then if you quit the program and immediately restarted it, it would again take 15 to 30 seconds to load. The same applied to loading a data file. This was because the OS couldn't assume it was the same file because you might have changed the floppy. Linux would take 15-30 seconds to load a file off a mounted floppy the first time, but about 1 second every time thereafter. "mount" is an agreement between you and the OS: "I'm going to leave this media in for a while, and I'll tell you before I remove it." In return for making this agreement, all your reads and writes are sped up considerably. I agree that remembering to "umount" stuff is initially a pain, but it's worth it. On 2/1/07, Byron Sonne wrote: > >> For performance Linux does not immediately commit writes. It is > >> recommended to umount, or else call sync several times to ensure full > >> flush. > > I would say umount is not recomended, it is mandetory. > > Umm... totally defeats the purpose of being USB hotpluggable, doesn't it? > > If it's gonna behave like that, then ls shouldn't show it as being > present until it's committed, like my other disks. Either it's on the > bloody stick or it's not. > > My OS should not lie to me, and I shouldn't have to wonder where my > files are. Here's what should happen: > > 1. I copy the file. > 2. The file is copied. > 3. If I pull it out while it's copying, then the file gets corrupted. > 4. Done. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 17:26:53 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 12:26:53 -0500 Subject: Autoflush USB thumb drive after copy In-Reply-To: References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <1170254849.8678.2.camel@localhost> <20070131155204.GY7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <45C145DC.2070302@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45C3745D.70608@ve3syb.ca> On 1/31/07, Byron Sonne wrote: >> I've got a USB thumb drive that I rarely use. Just started to again, but >> when I copy a file to it, unless I umount the node when I'm done, the >> file doesn't get committed. IMO, this is stupid - anyone know the >> reasoning behind this? >> >> If anyone could point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it. What is wrong with unmounting a drive before removing it? If you pull out a USB thumb drive under Windows you will get a nasty message saying that you should have told it you wanted to stop using the device before you pulled it out. Its pretty much the same thing in Linux. It makes sure any unwritten data is written to the device, and that no one else is using the device. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Eric.Malenfant-xNZwKgViW5gAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 17:28:21 2007 From: Eric.Malenfant-xNZwKgViW5gAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Eric.Malenfant-xNZwKgViW5gAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 11:28:21 -0600 Subject: File to Serial In-Reply-To: <45C372ED.7070306-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45C372ED.7070306@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <98A4A2882BDF3249B4A3650DA062799F0652040F@daebe100.NOE.Nokia.com> `cat file > /dev/ttyS0` ; where 0 is your serial port. - Eric -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of ext Lance F. Squire Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 12:21 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: File to Serial How can I copy a file to the serial port? I know there is a way, but I have forgotten. And nolonger have the book I read it in... Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 17:30:00 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 12:30:00 -0500 Subject: File to Serial In-Reply-To: <45C372ED.7070306-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45C372ED.7070306@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20070202173000.GQ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 12:20:45PM -0500, Lance F. Squire wrote: > How can I copy a file to the serial port? > > I know there is a way, but I have forgotten. And nolonger have the book > I read it in... Well it might be possible to do: cat file > /dev/ttyS0 Then again there may be flow control issues and such. You can set the serial port settings using stty -F /dev/ttyS0 ... minicom has a 'send file raw' option, which works rather well. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 18:31:29 2007 From: mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Marcel Gagne) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 13:31:29 -0500 Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: <45C3725B.6010507-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45C3725B.6010507@telly.org> Message-ID: <200702021331.29246.mggagne@salmar.com> Hello all, Not sure who David is, but I'll keep the subject line intact for threading purposes. On February 2, 2007 12:18:19 pm Evan Leibovitch wrote: > http://www.crncanada.ca/content/software/opinion-this-publicity-li.shtml > > Kinda makes me proud that I unsubscribed from the ubuntu-ca mailing list > a few weeks ago. Geez, how can such good software so badly represent > itself to the public? > > I have to generally agree with the author about the sheer stupidity of > this action. Can I assume that TLUG had nothing to do with it? Thanks for bringing this up, Evan. Before I get on my soapbox, I want to give the people this guy overheard the benefit of the doubt. When sitting down, bantering over a beer, people make a lot of boasts they have no intention of carrying out. e.g. "I'm going to $damage_description that $derogatory_embellishment $name_of_target and dump him $some_location." Happens all the time. So this could just be all talk. If it is even partly true, then I need to climb on my soapbox for a moment. If people want to stand a respectable distance outside the ice house, blow up their inflatable Tux, educate a few people about Linux and open source, and hand out CDs, that's their right and I don't have any trouble with that. If, however, the article is representing fact and people actually meant to trespass, disrupt Microsoft's demo, and cause property damage, we have a serious problem on our hands. Technically, Linux and open source collectively represent a better product than what comes out of Redmond. Philosophically, Linux and open source software is good for the world, providing a level playing field that makes advanced technology available to those who might not otherwise be able to take advantage of it. It's also good for the environment, letting people reuse hardware rather than dumping it. I could go on but suffice it to say that the reason I put so much energy into promoting Linux and open source software is because I believe in it both techonologically and philosophically. I also firmly believe that Linux and open source software can win a greater mindshare with a positive message than a negative one. Let's not keep harping on about how bad our competitor is. Instead, let's show how good we are. Linux and open source boasts a fantastic, worldwide community. Let's show the world that our ethics are as important as out brains. As the article referenced by Evan suggests, Linux and open source do not need the kind of publicity that mayhem gets you. It's worse than a bad idea. [ Marcel gets off his soapbox ] Take care out there. -- Marcel (Writer and Free Thinker at Large) Gagn? Note: This massagee wos nat speel or gramer-checkered. Mandatory home page reference - http://www.marcelgagne.com/ Author of the "Moving to Linux" series of books and the all new, "Moving to Free Software" Join the WFTL-LUG : http://www.marcelgagne.com/wftllugform.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 18:35:50 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 18:35:50 +0000 Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: <45C3725B.6010507-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45C3725B.6010507@telly.org> Message-ID: On 2/2/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > http://www.crncanada.ca/content/software/opinion-this-publicity-li.shtml > > Kinda makes me proud that I unsubscribed from the ubuntu-ca mailing list > a few weeks ago. Geez, how can such good software so badly represent > itself to the public? > > I have to generally agree with the author about the sheer stupidity of > this action. Can I assume that TLUG had nothing to do with it? I know I never heard about it... The fact that they refer to a 10 foot tall penguin causes me a little bit of concern, though... The thing about protesting is that if you're going to do it, you have *GOT* to make sure that: a) You're sitting on a *clear* "moral high ground." Ergo, anyone that is discussing engaging in breaking copyright (e.g. - burning copies of "Vista" CDs) isn't on that ground. b) You can trust the others you're protesting with. That the guy with the decent laptop doesn't trust the others to take care of it doesn't suggest that there's much trust to go around. And I certainly wouldn't trust the guy talking about burning Vista CDs... If nobody was willing to pay for a spool of CDs to give out Linux/Ubuntu CDs, that's also an indication of lack of "community spirit." If you can't get a group of ten would-be participants to toss out $5 apiece, they're obviously not even as economically committed to this as they might be to, say, buying lunch today... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 19:12:43 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 14:12:43 -0500 Subject: Charting server load In-Reply-To: <20070201155519.GA16957-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <45C38D2B.8030306@ve3syb.ca> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Is there an easy, lightweight way to chart the loads on a server? I am > one of many on a shared host that is obviously overloaded, and I want to > see if I can get the provider to acknowledge that the machine needs > upgrading or dividing. > When I was monitoring a machine running a web server some time ago, I used a cron job that ran every 5 minutes to grab and save information about network on a given interface. The information was gathered by doing SNMP queries. SNMP allows you to access all sorts of information (if the server is running an snmp daemon). Alternatively, you could just run a cron job to save the uptime information to the end of a file every x minutes. If the load average is getting over 20 at times, the machine is definitely getting bogged with some (as in too many CPU intensive?) processes. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 21:03:25 2007 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 16:03:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: <45C3725B.6010507-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45C3725B.6010507@telly.org> Message-ID: <33705.11298.qm@web60120.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, It seems that the final plan is nothing like the overheard comments: http://blog.tonyyarusso.com/planetubuntu/ubuntu-canadas-toronto-chapter-brings-the-penguin-to-the-ice-house/ I wouldn't judge based on some heard brainstorming; let's see how it goes. Fernando --- Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > http://www.crncanada.ca/content/software/opinion-this-publicity-li.shtml > > Kinda makes me proud that I unsubscribed from the > ubuntu-ca mailing list > a few weeks ago. Geez, how can such good software so > badly represent > itself to the public? > > I have to generally agree with the author about the > sheer stupidity of > this action. Can I assume that TLUG had nothing to > do with it? > > - Evan > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Eric.Malenfant-xNZwKgViW5gAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 21:05:12 2007 From: Eric.Malenfant-xNZwKgViW5gAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Eric.Malenfant-xNZwKgViW5gAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 15:05:12 -0600 Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: References: <45C3725B.6010507@telly.org> Message-ID: <98A4A2882BDF3249B4A3650DA062799F065207F3@daebe100.NOE.Nokia.com> Well, this has now just made the front page of Digg - - Eric -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of ext Christopher Browne Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 1:36 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... On 2/2/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > http://www.crncanada.ca/content/software/opinion-this-publicity-li.sht > ml > > Kinda makes me proud that I unsubscribed from the ubuntu-ca mailing > list a few weeks ago. Geez, how can such good software so badly > represent itself to the public? > > I have to generally agree with the author about the sheer stupidity of > this action. Can I assume that TLUG had nothing to do with it? I know I never heard about it... The fact that they refer to a 10 foot tall penguin causes me a little bit of concern, though... The thing about protesting is that if you're going to do it, you have *GOT* to make sure that: a) You're sitting on a *clear* "moral high ground." Ergo, anyone that is discussing engaging in breaking copyright (e.g. - burning copies of "Vista" CDs) isn't on that ground. b) You can trust the others you're protesting with. That the guy with the decent laptop doesn't trust the others to take care of it doesn't suggest that there's much trust to go around. And I certainly wouldn't trust the guy talking about burning Vista CDs... If nobody was willing to pay for a spool of CDs to give out Linux/Ubuntu CDs, that's also an indication of lack of "community spirit." If you can't get a group of ten would-be participants to toss out $5 apiece, they're obviously not even as economically committed to this as they might be to, say, buying lunch today... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 21:24:06 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 16:24:06 -0500 Subject: File to Serial In-Reply-To: <98A4A2882BDF3249B4A3650DA062799F0652040F-EbeTJvw03O1uQ36E7UOhrbahn/p+MhOh@public.gmane.org> References: <45C372ED.7070306@alteeve.com> <98A4A2882BDF3249B4A3650DA062799F0652040F@daebe100.NOE.Nokia.com> Message-ID: <1170451446.3332.228.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Fri, 2007-02-02 at 11:28 -0600, Eric.Malenfant-xNZwKgViW5gAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > `cat file > /dev/ttyS0` ; where 0 is your serial port. > > - Eric What is the purpose for this? Are you trying to print? Send a file to an archaic device? -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 21:25:32 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 16:25:32 -0500 Subject: playing with ubuntu first time In-Reply-To: References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <7ac602420702011409w2756fb9fpfed8dee06584e146@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200702021625.33438.softquake@gmail.com> When I do: apt-get install texinfo I see that it attempts to do something with postfix (restart it and other things). That fails. Why postfix? What it has to do with postfix? Why restarting? Isn't that crazy? The fact is that I have postfix installed (and running) but from source. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 22:50:49 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 02 Feb 2007 17:50:49 -0500 Subject: playing with ubuntu first time In-Reply-To: <200702021625.33438.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <7ac602420702011409w2756fb9fpfed8dee06584e146@mail.gmail.com> <200702021625.33438.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: Zbigniew Koziol writes: > When I do: > > apt-get install texinfo > > I see that it attempts to do something with postfix (restart it and other > things). That fails. > > Why postfix? What it has to do with postfix? Why restarting? Isn't that crazy? Is it possible that you have a version of postfix partially installed? When installation of a package failed to complete properly (for whatever reason), apt-get will try to remedy it whenever it's run. What does: % dpkg -l postfix say? How about this? % sudo apt-get -s -f install > The fact is that I have postfix installed (and running) but from source. Why from source? Except for "leaf" packages (on which nothing depends), installing packages from source is often a source of trouble on any package based Linux distro. If you insist on running postfix from source, you should probably "apt-get install postfix", disable it, and install postfix into a completely separate tree, such as /usr/local or /opt. This ensures that all postfix dependencies are satisfied and that Ubuntu is aware that you have an mta installed. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 23:07:26 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 18:07:26 -0500 Subject: playing with ubuntu first time In-Reply-To: References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200702021625.33438.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200702021807.26487.softquake@gmail.com> On Friday 02 February 2007 17:50, Tim Writer wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol writes: > > When I do: > > > > apt-get install texinfo > > > > I see that it attempts to do something with postfix (restart it and other > > things). That fails. > > > > Why postfix? What it has to do with postfix? Why restarting? Isn't that > > crazy? > > Is it possible that you have a version of postfix partially installed? When > installation of a package failed to complete properly (for whatever > reason), apt-get will try to remedy it whenever it's run. What does: > > % dpkg -l postfix Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) ||/ Name Version Description +++-======================-======================-============================================================ iF postfix 2.2.10-1ubuntu0.1 A high-performance mail transport agent > say? How about this? > > % sudo apt-get -s -f install I do not want to ;) > > The fact is that I have postfix installed (and running) but from source. > > Why from source? Except for "leaf" packages (on which nothing depends), > installing packages from source is often a source of trouble on any package > based Linux distro. Installing from source gives me more freedom. Isn't Linux about freedom? That's why I use it. I want to have a possibility to test various extra optional packages/configurations and installing by apt-get or any other similar toy does not give me that. > If you insist on running postfix from source, you should probably "apt-get > install postfix", disable it, and install postfix into a completely > separate tree, such as /usr/local or /opt. This ensures that all postfix > dependencies are satisfied and that Ubuntu is aware that you have an mta > installed. Thank you. Your comments were helpfull. When it comes to texinfo, I installed it already.. from source :) Thanks, zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 23:28:12 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 18:28:12 -0500 Subject: playing with ubuntu first time In-Reply-To: <200702021807.26487.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200702021807.26487.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200702021828.12888.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Friday 02 February 2007 18:07, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On Friday 02 February 2007 17:50, Tim Writer wrote: > > Zbigniew Koziol writes: [snip] > > > The fact is that I have postfix installed (and running) but > > > from source. > > > > Why from source? Except for "leaf" packages (on which nothing > > depends), installing packages from source is often a source of > > trouble on any package based Linux distro. > > Installing from source gives me more freedom. Isn't Linux about > freedom? That's why I use it. I want to have a possibility to test > various extra optional packages/configurations and installing by > apt-get or any other similar toy does not give me that. Yes, Linux is about freedom but it seems pointless to run a distro that has a package manager and then not use it. You can have the freedom to experiment and still not break your system if you rebuild the source packages and install the binary packages that you create. If you really want to build stuff from source most of the time and see a package manager as a toy, why not use a source based distro like Slackware or Gentoo in the first place? -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 23:34:55 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 18:34:55 -0500 Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: <200702021331.29246.mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <45C3725B.6010507@telly.org> <200702021331.29246.mggagne@salmar.com> Message-ID: <45C3CA9F.3050005@telly.org> Marcel Gagne wrote: > Not sure who David is, but I'll keep the subject line intact for threading > purposes. > I was referring to David Patrick of Linuxcaffe, which was never mentioned by name but clearly the venue of the eavesdropping and the location of Ubuntu advocacy meetings. The 10-foot penguin belongs to Linuxcaffe, I believe, and was last seen IIRC at last years' TLUG picnic. I haven't seen it in person but saw a picture of it at the last TLUG exec meeting. > If people want to stand a respectable distance outside the ice house, blow up their inflatable Tux, educate a few people about Linux and open source, and hand out CDs, that's their right and I don't have any trouble with that. If, however, the article is representing fact and people actually meant to trespass, disrupt Microsoft's demo, and cause property damage, we have a serious problem on our hands. > Even the tactic of a press stunt of crashing the Windows event has limited value anymore. Given the speed at which people can download CDs if they want the software, the value of distributing disks isn't what it used to be. Compounding the problem is that Ubuntu crowd are obsessed with building up the Ubuntu "brand", as distinct from promoting generic Linux. Otherwise, Ubuntu Toronto would be a SIG of TLUG (like NewTLUG) rather than a completely independent group. Before unsubscribing I practically begged Ubuntu folks to participate more with the larger community, only to be largely ignored. Maybe it's just as well. I totally share Marcel's sentiment, - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 2 23:57:13 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 18:57:13 -0500 Subject: playing with ubuntu first time In-Reply-To: <200702021828.12888.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200702021807.26487.softquake@gmail.com> <200702021828.12888.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <200702021857.13394.softquake@gmail.com> On Friday 02 February 2007 18:28, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Yes, Linux is about freedom but it seems pointless to run a distro > that has a package manager and then not use it. You can have the > freedom to experiment and still not break your system if you rebuild > the source packages and install the binary packages that you create. > If you really want to build stuff from source most of the time and > see a package manager as a toy, why not use a source based distro > like Slackware or Gentoo in the first place? Good point. Next time I will. Perhaps Slackware? That was my first Linux distribution I used 10 years ago.. :) Thanks for comment. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 3 00:16:19 2007 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 19:16:19 -0500 Subject: File to Serial In-Reply-To: <98A4A2882BDF3249B4A3650DA062799F0652040F-EbeTJvw03O1uQ36E7UOhrbahn/p+MhOh@public.gmane.org> References: <45C372ED.7070306@alteeve.com> <98A4A2882BDF3249B4A3650DA062799F0652040F@daebe100.NOE.Nokia.com> Message-ID: <45C3D453.2030606@alteeve.com> Eric.Malenfant-xNZwKgViW5gAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > `cat file > /dev/ttyS0` ; where 0 is your serial port. Thanks! Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 3 01:14:10 2007 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 20:14:10 -0500 Subject: Adobe flash player within Konqueror? In-Reply-To: <45C2352F.4000608-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45C2352F.4000608@telly.org> Message-ID: <200702022014.10685.amarjan@pobox.com> On February 1, 2007 01:45:03 pm Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hey all, > > I've downloaded the new Adobe Flash Player 9 and it works great within > Firefox. However, I don't know how to get Konqueror to understand to > open flv files using the plugin (it works fine on swf files). > > Using mplayer mighe be an option as a standalone, but it only plays flv > videos silently. > > It's greatly appreciate if anyone could suggest a fix to either issue: > > - hearing audio properly when playing an flv file within mplayer > - getting Konqueror to use the Adobe Firefox plugin to play flv files > > Thanks! > > - Evan Konqueror will run Netscape plugins just fine in a helper process. Check Settings..Configure Konqueror..Plugins. There's a button labelled "Scan for new plugins" which might be all you need. Just make sure you don't have any old flash player binaries lying around. I had trouble with Konqueror when I installed Flash 9 because I had a Flash 7 plugin somewhere in ~/.mozilla. Under the "Plugins" tab, the checkbox "Use artsdsp to pipe plugin sound through aRts" is checked in the default Kubuntu profile. If you're using Ubuntu (or Debian I presume?), I highly recommend using the Adobe Flash Player installer package. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 3 01:55:13 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 20:55:13 -0500 Subject: playing with ubuntu first time In-Reply-To: <200702021807.26487.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200702021625.33438.softquake@gmail.com> <200702021807.26487.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45C3EB81.6030800@telly.org> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Installing from source gives me more freedom. Isn't Linux about freedom? > That's why I use it. I want to have a possibility to test various extra > optional packages/configurations and installing by apt-get or any other > similar toy does not give me that. > Sounds like Gentoo is more your speed than Ubuntu. :-) - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 3 03:00:33 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 22:00:33 -0500 Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: <200702021331.29246.mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <45C3725B.6010507@telly.org> <200702021331.29246.mggagne@salmar.com> Message-ID: <45C3FAD1.7000102@utoronto.ca> Marcel Gagne wrote: > Hello all, > > Not sure who David is, but I'll keep the subject line intact for threading > purposes. > > On February 2, 2007 12:18:19 pm Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> http://www.crncanada.ca/content/software/opinion-this-publicity-li.shtml >> >> Kinda makes me proud that I unsubscribed from the ubuntu-ca mailing list >> a few weeks ago. Geez, how can such good software so badly represent >> itself to the public? >> >> I have to generally agree with the author about the sheer stupidity of >> this action. Can I assume that TLUG had nothing to do with it? > > Thanks for bringing this up, Evan. Before I get on my soapbox, I want to give > the people this guy overheard the benefit of the doubt. When sitting down, > bantering over a beer, people make a lot of boasts they have no intention of > carrying out. e.g. "I'm going to $damage_description that > $derogatory_embellishment $name_of_target and dump him $some_location." > Happens all the time. So this could just be all talk. > > If it is even partly true, then I need to climb on my soapbox for a moment. It is not so please climb down. It was a good time with no problems caused at all except by police who kindly asked tux be deflated. > If people want to stand a respectable distance outside the ice house, blow up > their inflatable Tux, educate a few people about Linux and open source, and > hand out CDs, that's their right and I don't have any trouble with that. If, > however, the article is representing fact and people actually meant to > trespass, disrupt Microsoft's demo, and cause property damage, we have a > serious problem on our hands. The article (mis)represents fact. 3 Microsoft people were present at the linuxcaffe the day before and likely the author was/is one of them from the Canadian Tire money bit. Surely we all understand context and taking such condescention with at least a little grain of salt? > Technically, Linux and open source collectively represent a better product > than what comes out of Redmond. Philosophically, Linux and open source > software is good for the world, providing a level playing field that makes > advanced technology available to those who might not otherwise be able to > take advantage of it. It's also good for the environment, letting people > reuse hardware rather than dumping it. I could go on but suffice it to say > that the reason I put so much energy into promoting Linux and open source > software is because I believe in it both techonologically and > philosophically. > > I also firmly believe that Linux and open source software can win a greater > mindshare with a positive message than a negative one. Let's not keep harping > on about how bad our competitor is. Instead, let's show how good we are. > Linux and open source boasts a fantastic, worldwide community. Let's show the > world that our ethics are as important as out brains. > > As the article referenced by Evan suggests, Linux and open source do not need > the kind of publicity that mayhem gets you. It's worse than a bad idea. > > [ Marcel gets off his soapbox ] A good time was had by all. See http://jamon.ca/main.php?g2_itemId=474 Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 3 03:09:28 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 22:09:28 -0500 Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: <45C3CA9F.3050005-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45C3725B.6010507@telly.org> <200702021331.29246.mggagne@salmar.com> <45C3CA9F.3050005@telly.org> Message-ID: <45C3FCE8.9030804@utoronto.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Marcel Gagne wrote: >> Not sure who David is, but I'll keep the subject line intact for >> threading purposes. >> > > I was referring to David Patrick of Linuxcaffe, which was never > mentioned by name but clearly the venue of the eavesdropping and the > location of Ubuntu advocacy meetings. > > The 10-foot penguin belongs to Linuxcaffe, I believe, and was last seen > IIRC at last years' TLUG picnic. I haven't seen it in person but saw a > picture of it at the last TLUG exec meeting. > >> If people want to stand a respectable distance outside the ice house, >> blow up their inflatable Tux, educate a few people about Linux and >> open source, and hand out CDs, that's their right and I don't have any >> trouble with that. If, however, the article is representing fact and >> people actually meant to trespass, disrupt Microsoft's demo, and cause >> property damage, we have a serious problem on our hands. >> > Even the tactic of a press stunt of crashing the Windows event has > limited value anymore. Given the speed at which people can download CDs > if they want the software, the value of distributing disks isn't what it > used to be. We distributed over 100 cds and people were begging for more... We were also quite adamant that no one be approached about Ubuntu, but rather, the pitch was "Have you heard of Linux"? After that, out come the cds if people are interested. You'd be surprised. The value is in actually talking to people, the cd is totally secondary. Face time baby! > Compounding the problem is that Ubuntu crowd are obsessed with building > up the Ubuntu "brand", as distinct from promoting generic Linux. > Otherwise, Ubuntu Toronto would be a SIG of TLUG (like NewTLUG) rather > than a completely independent group. Before unsubscribing I practically > begged Ubuntu folks to participate more with the larger community, only > to be largely ignored. See above. I'm part of said "Ubuntu crowd" but pitched Fedora and Debian to a number of people. Admittedly those were the ones who knew about Linux. I've even been running Fedora on most of my systems for a few months. But I think you fail to see what Ubuntu is doing for Linux. Just as Stallman was and is rightly pissed about Linux overshadowing GNU, Ubuntu may be doing the same in part for Linux. But we mostly all use and call it Linux. By this point I think that even the most idealistic can admit GNU/Linux is totally not what the public wants to hear and is largely academic to most anyways, so go figure. Just plain Linux works for me most of the time. I also managed to gain the interest of 2 people regarding TLUG (they'll be at the next meeting), and one is starting a Ryerson LUG (he began this before meeting us today). Interesting no? > Maybe it's just as well. I totally share Marcel's sentiment, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 3 03:12:43 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 22:12:43 -0500 Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: References: <45C3725B.6010507@telly.org> Message-ID: <45C3FDAB.50504@utoronto.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 2/2/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> >> http://www.crncanada.ca/content/software/opinion-this-publicity-li.shtml >> >> Kinda makes me proud that I unsubscribed from the ubuntu-ca mailing list >> a few weeks ago. Geez, how can such good software so badly represent >> itself to the public? >> >> I have to generally agree with the author about the sheer stupidity of >> this action. Can I assume that TLUG had nothing to do with it? > > I know I never heard about it... > > The fact that they refer to a 10 foot tall penguin causes me a little > bit of concern, though... > > The thing about protesting is that if you're going to do it, you have > *GOT* to make sure that: > > a) You're sitting on a *clear* "moral high ground." > > Ergo, anyone that is discussing engaging in breaking copyright (e.g. - > burning copies of "Vista" CDs) isn't on that ground. > > b) You can trust the others you're protesting with. > > That the guy with the decent laptop doesn't trust the others to take > care of it doesn't suggest that there's much trust to go around. And > I certainly wouldn't trust the guy talking about burning Vista CDs... > > If nobody was willing to pay for a spool of CDs to give out > Linux/Ubuntu CDs, that's also an indication of lack of "community > spirit." If you can't get a group of ten would-be participants to > toss out $5 apiece, they're obviously not even as economically > committed to this as they might be to, say, buying lunch today... There was no protesting (except for the nasty powertripping security at the square which is privately operated, they earned my protest). Many of us are students. That's why we use Linux... Life in the fishbowl kind of sucks. At least Ubuntu Toronto is doing something though, so to any detractors, too bad, we're having fun, causing no trouble, and promoting Linux. Exuberance I think it's called. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 3 03:13:30 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 22:13:30 -0500 Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: <33705.11298.qm-8P7eC/iJEu6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <33705.11298.qm@web60120.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45C3FDDA.8080302@utoronto.ca> Fernando Duran wrote: > Hi, > > It seems that the final plan is nothing like the > overheard comments: > > http://blog.tonyyarusso.com/planetubuntu/ubuntu-canadas-toronto-chapter-brings-the-penguin-to-the-ice-house/ > > I wouldn't judge based on some heard brainstorming; > let's see how it goes. Pictures here, and more on Flickr no doubt: http://jamon.ca/main.php?g2_itemId=474 Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 3 03:17:27 2007 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 22:17:27 -0500 Subject: File to Serial In-Reply-To: <1170451446.3332.228.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <45C372ED.7070306@alteeve.com> <98A4A2882BDF3249B4A3650DA062799F0652040F@daebe100.NOE.Nokia.com> <1170451446.3332.228.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <45C3FEC7.10501@alteeve.com> John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Fri, 2007-02-02 at 11:28 -0600, Eric.Malenfant-xNZwKgViW5gAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> `cat file > /dev/ttyS0` ; where 0 is your serial port. >> >> - Eric > > What is the purpose for this? Are you trying to print? Send a file to an > archaic device? > Got it in Two! ;) Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 3 03:18:36 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 22:18:36 -0500 Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: <45C3725B.6010507-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45C3725B.6010507@telly.org> Message-ID: <45C3FF0C.7020203@utoronto.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > http://www.crncanada.ca/content/software/opinion-this-publicity-li.shtml > > Kinda makes me proud that I unsubscribed from the ubuntu-ca mailing list > a few weeks ago. Geez, how can such good software so badly represent > itself to the public? > > I have to generally agree with the author about the sheer stupidity of > this action. Can I assume that TLUG had nothing to do with it? Since no one from TLUG (except David) has attended any of the public meet and greet events (Software Freedom Day and this) that I know of, TLUG is in the clear, no worries about tarnishing reputation. Perhaps only of being overshadowed in terms of distributing cds and advocacy (which admittedly the aforementioned bombastic article paints are painfully lacking). Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 3 05:08:43 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 00:08:43 -0500 Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: <45C3725B.6010507-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45C3725B.6010507@telly.org> Message-ID: On 02/02/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... I most certainly was, Evan, it was fun and I'd do it again. In fact, I plan to ! Tomorrow starting about 2pm, this time in front of the Eaton Centre, accross from der IceHaus. > > http://www.crncanada.ca/content/software/opinion-this-publicity-li.shtml > > Kinda makes me proud that I unsubscribed from the ubuntu-ca mailing list > a few weeks ago. Geez, how can such good software so badly represent > itself to the public? If fresh faced enthusiasts donating time and money to stand in the cold and extol the virtues of linux and free software, is bad representation, then proud you should be. > > I have to generally agree with the author about the sheer stupidity of > this action. Can I assume that TLUG had nothing to do with it? Except for the fact that a Board member was principal organizer, no, not at all. The stupidity in question was entirely the result of that band of unruly ubuntu enthusiasts. They can't seem to grasp how a LUG should behave, and insist on telling EVERYBODY how great linux is. Have faith that after this weekends appalling display of shameless promotion in the cold despite stern condemnation, they will surely learn their lesson, or at least how to get the word out to a couple of hundred thousand people. Will we see you tomorrow ? djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hq4ever at gmail.com Sat Feb 3 10:20:42 2007 From: hq4ever at gmail.com (Maxim Veksler) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 12:20:42 +0200 Subject: [TLUG]: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <1170254849.8678.2.camel@localhost> <20070131155204.GY7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: On 2/1/07, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Wednesday 31 January 2007 10:52, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 09:47:29AM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > > > yes, I know. the core-duo hcips seem the obvious hcoice, probably > > > either a thinkpad x60 or a sony sz series. > > > > Make that Core 2 Duo. The core Duo probably won't do it at all. > > Nope, core duo is fine as well. I have a Dell inspiron 6400 with a T2400 > (IIRC) ... definitely a core duo and definitely has VT. All core duos from > T2200 and up (if not earlier) should have VT capability. I've tried HP, > Toshiba and Dell laptops and all had VT enabled and working fine for Xen. > How can I tell if my CPU support VT? Could you please post your /proc/cpuinfo for comparison? <<< cat /proc/cpuinfo processor : 0 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 6 model : 14 model name : Genuine Intel(R) CPU T2400 @ 1.83GHz stepping : 8 cpu MHz : 1000.000 cache size : 2048 KB physical id : 0 siblings : 1 core id : 255 cpu cores : 1 fdiv_bug : no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug : no coma_bug : no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 10 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe constant_tsc pni monitor vmx est tm2 xtpr bogomips : 3662.50 processor : 1 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 6 model : 14 model name : Genuine Intel(R) CPU T2400 @ 1.83GHz stepping : 8 cpu MHz : 1000.000 cache size : 2048 KB physical id : 1 siblings : 1 core id : 255 cpu cores : 1 fdiv_bug : no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug : no coma_bug : no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 10 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe constant_tsc pni monitor vmx est tm2 xtpr bogomips : 3657.80 >>> > -- > Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ > Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux > > -- Cheers, Maxim Veksler "Free as in Freedom" - Do u GNU ? From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 3 13:58:17 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 08:58:17 -0500 Subject: playing with ubuntu first time In-Reply-To: <200702021807.26487.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200702021625.33438.softquake@gmail.com> <200702021807.26487.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2/2/07, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On Friday 02 February 2007 17:50, Tim Writer wrote: > > Zbigniew Koziol writes: > > > When I do: > > > > > > apt-get install texinfo > > > > > > I see that it attempts to do something with postfix (restart it and other > > > things). That fails. > > > > > > Why postfix? What it has to do with postfix? Why restarting? Isn't that > > > crazy? > > > > Is it possible that you have a version of postfix partially installed? When > > installation of a package failed to complete properly (for whatever > > reason), apt-get will try to remedy it whenever it's run. What does: > > > > % dpkg -l postfix > > Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold > | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed > |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: > uppercase=bad) > ||/ Name Version Description > +++-======================-======================-============================================================ > iF postfix 2.2.10-1ubuntu0.1 A high-performance mail > transport agent > > > say? How about this? > > > > % sudo apt-get -s -f install > > I do not want to ;) Then why did you: a) Choose a distribution which expects to do this sort of thing, and, more importantly, b) Let it leave a package-managed copy of postfix half-installed? Installing something from source that the distribution will happily manage for you is a *little* bit daft. But having a package-managed copy of an app that you leave broken in addition to one installed from sources is the *real* problem, "all the way daft." > > > The fact is that I have postfix installed (and running) but from source. > > > > Why from source? Except for "leaf" packages (on which nothing depends), > > installing packages from source is often a source of trouble on any package > > based Linux distro. > > Installing from source gives me more freedom. Isn't Linux about freedom? > That's why I use it. I want to have a possibility to test various extra > optional packages/configurations and installing by apt-get or any other > similar toy does not give me that. I find that the trade off is in another direction. Installing from packages gives me "more freedom" because I never have to bother understanding the details of the sources for them. I don't need to bother storing any of those details in my head, and I don't need to do any work managing the sources. Freedom from managing source code is also of value... > > If you insist on running postfix from source, you should probably "apt-get > > install postfix", disable it, and install postfix into a completely > > separate tree, such as /usr/local or /opt. This ensures that all postfix > > dependencies are satisfied and that Ubuntu is aware that you have an mta > > installed. > > Thank you. Your comments were helpfull. > > When it comes to texinfo, I installed it already.. from source :) I strongly believe that *in most cases* there is not much to be gained from installing things from source. Unless you're building a system rife with likely-to-be-unmanageable idiosyncracies, it is very likely that 90% or more of the time, you don't need to have the "special sauce" from building from sources. At most, some small percentage of software selections will warrant being built from source. I see this at work; in my department, we *do* produce custom builds of PostgreSQL and Slony-I, and I tend to have half a dozen or so custom builds of it of varying versions on my workstation. However, life is too short for this to extend to everything. There are vanishingly few other things on my workstation where source builds are preferable. Entertainingly, in the AIX environment, the very same is true. PostgreSQL has various things it depends on that aren't base AIX libraries. I need GCC, GNU Make, M4, OpenSSH libraries, Tcl, readline, and quite a bunch of other libraries for this and that. Our sysadmins wind up building GCC because they need that for other purposes. All the rest of it we pull in as RPM files. In the Solaris days, I got forced to build many of those component libs, but today, there's little to be gained by it. It's a pain to manage custom-built libs. On Ubuntu (much like Debian), you might find that the preferable way to handle your Desperate Need For Customized Postfix (which I imagine is actually a mirage; you probably only think you needed to build it from sources) is to build your own package for it. That is, of course, how Debian came into being. The main point of it is that each developer wants to customize their favorite package, and they *don't* feel it valuable to have to spend a lot of time managing things extraneous to their interests. Thus, you manage, as source, the few packages you care about, installing binaries as needed for these packages, and use the binary forms for the vast majority of packages where you have no reason to need to care about having idiosyncratic configuration. If that's totally incompatible with your ways of doing things, perhaps you should look into Slackware or Gentoo... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 3 16:14:49 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 11:14:49 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <200702031037.41813.dave-VvnUh7fPG/k7v45Mz1C67QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> Message-ID: 3pm, they're going again ! if you want to join in, c'mon down. If you're just embarrased, just say "huh, ubuntu fanboyz" and go back to fragging. ;-) djp ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Dave Sullivan Date: 03-Feb-2007 10:37 Subject: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! To: ubuntu-ca-nLRlyDuq1AZFpShjVBNYrg at public.gmane.org Hey Folks! I know it's really last minute, but we're planning to head back down to Yonge-Dundas Square in Toronto today, Saturday February 3rd, at 3PM! We're already in the process of burning off more CDs, and if anyone is available and willing to help out, we'd highly appreciate if you bring any CDs you already have, or burn off a bunch and bring 'em down! Yesterday, we handed out nearly 80 CDs (all we had!) and almost 200 information sheets about Ubuntu and free software. Let's do it again today, and really get the word out! See you there! -- Dave Sullivan dave-VvnUh7fPG/k7v45Mz1C67QC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org 647-235-0328 -- ubuntu-ca mailing list ubuntu-ca-nLRlyDuq1AZFpShjVBNYrg at public.gmane.org https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-ca -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From b.arquette-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 3 16:32:28 2007 From: b.arquette-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (B Arquette) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 11:32:28 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> Message-ID: It can't hurt to have a few moderate voices walk by......... On 2/3/07, David J Patrick wrote: > > 3pm, they're going again ! > if you want to join in, c'mon down. > If you're just embarrased, just say "huh, ubuntu fanboyz" and go back > to fragging. > ;-) > djp > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Dave Sullivan > Date: 03-Feb-2007 10:37 > Subject: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! > To: ubuntu-ca-nLRlyDuq1AZFpShjVBNYrg at public.gmane.org > > > Hey Folks! > > I know it's really last minute, but we're planning to head back down to > Yonge-Dundas Square in Toronto today, Saturday February 3rd, at 3PM! > > We're already in the process of burning off more CDs, and if anyone is > available and willing to help out, we'd highly appreciate if you bring any > CDs you already have, or burn off a bunch and bring 'em down! > > Yesterday, we handed out nearly 80 CDs (all we had!) and almost 200 > information sheets about Ubuntu and free software. Let's do it again > today, > and really get the word out! > > See you there! > > -- > Dave Sullivan > dave-VvnUh7fPG/k7v45Mz1C67QC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org > 647-235-0328 > > -- > ubuntu-ca mailing list > ubuntu-ca-nLRlyDuq1AZFpShjVBNYrg at public.gmane.org > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-ca > > > -- > djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org > www.linuxcaffe.ca > geek chic and caffe cachet > 326 Harbord Street, > Toronto, M6G 3A5, > (416) 534-2116 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Occasional Random Thoughts brought to you at barquette.blogspot.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 3 23:29:44 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 18:29:44 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990702031529n4adf725ar5a2512c34afb7445@mail.gmail.com> One of these days, some Linux dudes ought to put on a street-play or something. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 4 03:34:16 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 22:34:16 -0500 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <200702032234.16955.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Saturday 03 February 2007 05:20, Maxim Veksler wrote: > How can I tell if my CPU support VT? vmx flags which you have should be good enough. I believe vme is related but I'm not sure that it would be good enough by itself. > Could you please post your /proc/cpuinfo for comparison? Sorry, I don't have laptop convenient at the moment. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 4 10:52:09 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 11:52:09 +0100 Subject: bash expansion help In-Reply-To: <200702032234.16955.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200702032234.16955.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <45C5BAD9.3080903@visible-assets.com> Hi everyone, I'm trying to find some method to expand this variable $arm_opts: "GENERIC_ARM ARM{610,710,720T,920T,922T,926T,_{SA110,SA1100,XSCALE}}" to this: "GENERIC_ARM ARM610 ARM710 ARM720T ARM920T ARM922T ARM926T ARM_SA110 ARM_SA1100 ARM_XSCALE" in bash. Any tips ? Thanks, ~/Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 4 14:09:56 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 17:09:56 +0300 Subject: Charting server load In-Reply-To: <45C38D2B.8030306-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <45C38D2B.8030306@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On 02/02/07, Kevin Cozens wrote: > > William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > > Is there an easy, lightweight way to chart the loads on a server? I am > > one of many on a shared host that is obviously overloaded, and I want to > > see if I can get the provider to acknowledge that the machine needs > > upgrading or dividing. > > Yes, and a good tool for that is cacti. If your hosting guys are running SNMP agent, this would be the best solution IMHO as it can graph both the system and the service load over time. Cacti should run on a remote host to avoid slowing your hosting box. The cool thing about cacti is you will just need to point your provider to the cacti graphs. William When I was monitoring a machine running a web server some time ago, I > used a cron job that ran every 5 minutes to grab and save information > about network on a given interface. The information was gathered by > doing SNMP queries. SNMP allows you to access all sorts of information > (if the server is running an snmp daemon). Alternatively, you could just > run a cron job to save the uptime information to the end of a file every > x minutes. > > If the load average is getting over 20 at times, the machine is > definitely getting bogged with some (as in too many CPU intensive?) > processes. > > -- > Cheers! > > Kevin. > > http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" > Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: > | Try to assimilate the world!" > #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 4 14:34:15 2007 From: rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 09:34:15 -0500 Subject: Open Source scheduling In-Reply-To: References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <45C38D2B.8030306@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <45C5EEE7.4050906@luckdancing.com> I'm trying to find an open source solution or good starting point for a staff scheduling/time management package for a coffee shop, something about the size of a Tim Hortons. Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From skrishnan-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 4 14:44:00 2007 From: skrishnan-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (S. Krishnan) Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 09:44:00 -0500 Subject: Charting server load In-Reply-To: References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <45C38D2B.8030306@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <1170600240.2046.3.camel@ambipapa> On Sun, 2007-02-04 at 17:09 +0300, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > On 02/02/07, Kevin Cozens wrote: > William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > > Is there an easy, lightweight way to chart the loads on a > server? I am > > one of many on a shared host that is obviously overloaded, > and I want to > > see if I can get the provider to acknowledge that the > machine needs > > upgrading or dividing. > > > Yes, and a good tool for that is cacti. If your hosting guys are > running SNMP agent, this would be the best solution IMHO as it can > graph both the system and the service load over time. Cacti should run > on a remote host to avoid slowing your hosting box. > The cool thing about cacti is you will just need to point your > provider to the cacti graphs. > William > One way is to use sar (http://perso.orange.fr/sebastien.godard/) with kSar (http://ksar.atomique.net/) for graphs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 4 15:30:14 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 10:30:14 -0500 Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: References: <45C3725B.6010507@telly.org> Message-ID: <1170603015.7563.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-02-03 at 00:08 -0500, David J Patrick wrote: > > http://www.crncanada.ca/content/software/opinion-this-publicity-li.shtml If someone overheard the marketing and strategy discussions in Microsoft's board rooms, what do you think they would say? -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 4 16:14:48 2007 From: interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Interlug Lists) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 11:14:48 -0500 Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: <1170603015.7563.93.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <45C3725B.6010507@telly.org> <1170603015.7563.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <408ae1640702040814q2e3c8f12na409d8d0b7a249e2@mail.gmail.com> On 2/4/07, John Van Ostrand wrote: > > > If someone overheard the marketing and strategy discussions in Microsoft's > board rooms, what do you think they would say? > I suppose that depends if what they say is sponsored by advertisers? Oh, come on now. Microsoft is filled with professionals who have nothing but the consumers best interests at heart. I'm sure there is nothing untoward hidden behind the curtain. http://www.iowaconsumercase.org/011107/PX_2768.pdf Oops. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 4 16:41:16 2007 From: interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Interlug Lists) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 11:41:16 -0500 Subject: Good press Message-ID: <408ae1640702040841t33c23f52tfb4432b5799d74ef@mail.gmail.com> http://wvs.topleftpixel.com/07/02/04/ This is an awesome photoblogger in Toronto. It isn't usually on topic for TLUG, but today it is. Scroll down. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skrishnan-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 4 16:47:30 2007 From: skrishnan-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (S. Krishnan) Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 11:47:30 -0500 Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: <1170603015.7563.93.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <45C3725B.6010507@telly.org> <1170603015.7563.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1170607650.2442.1.camel@ambipapa> On Sun, 2007-02-04 at 10:30 -0500, John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Sat, 2007-02-03 at 00:08 -0500, David J Patrick wrote: > > > http://www.crncanada.ca/content/software/opinion-this-publicity-li.shtml > > If someone overheard the marketing and strategy discussions in > Microsoft's board rooms, what do you think they would say? > The Halloween documents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents) make good reading. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 4 21:22:40 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 22:22:40 +0100 Subject: bash expansion help In-Reply-To: <45C5BAD9.3080903-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200702032234.16955.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <45C5BAD9.3080903@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <45C64EA0.3030506@visible-assets.com> Don't grep, awk, sed, and tr seem to ultimately solve all of life's problems? $ arm_opts="GENERIC_ARM ARM{610,710,720T,920T,922T,926T,_{SA110,SA1100,XSCALE}}" $ echo ARM920T | grep -e "$(echo $arm_opts | sed '{s/ /|/}')" ARM920T ~/Chris Christopher Friedt wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I'm trying to find some method to expand this variable $arm_opts: > > "GENERIC_ARM ARM{610,710,720T,920T,922T,926T,_{SA110,SA1100,XSCALE}}" > > to this: > > "GENERIC_ARM ARM610 ARM710 ARM720T ARM920T ARM922T ARM926T ARM_SA110 > ARM_SA1100 ARM_XSCALE" > > in bash. > > Any tips ? > > > Thanks, > > ~/Chris > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 4 21:53:27 2007 From: sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Steve Harvey) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 16:53:27 -0500 Subject: bash expansion help In-Reply-To: <45C5BAD9.3080903-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200702032234.16955.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <45C5BAD9.3080903@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <20070204215327.GF91169@shell.vex.net> On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 11:52:09AM +0100, Christopher Friedt wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I'm trying to find some method to expand this variable $arm_opts: > > "GENERIC_ARM ARM{610,710,720T,920T,922T,926T,_{SA110,SA1100,XSCALE}}" > > to this: > > "GENERIC_ARM ARM610 ARM710 ARM720T ARM920T ARM922T ARM926T ARM_SA110 > ARM_SA1100 ARM_XSCALE" > > in bash. > > Any tips ? > arm_opts_exp=`echo echo $arm_opts | bash` -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 4 22:09:33 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 23:09:33 +0100 Subject: bash expansion help In-Reply-To: <20070204215327.GF91169-bEteefDXIgtmcu3hnIyYJQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200702032234.16955.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <45C5BAD9.3080903@visible-assets.com> <20070204215327.GF91169@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: <45C6599D.4080402@visible-assets.com> Doh! Yeah, my solution didn't work. You're a genius Steve! Thanks! ~/Chris Steve Harvey wrote: > On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 11:52:09AM +0100, Christopher Friedt wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> I'm trying to find some method to expand this variable $arm_opts: >> >> "GENERIC_ARM ARM{610,710,720T,920T,922T,926T,_{SA110,SA1100,XSCALE}}" >> >> to this: >> >> "GENERIC_ARM ARM610 ARM710 ARM720T ARM920T ARM922T ARM926T ARM_SA110 >> ARM_SA1100 ARM_XSCALE" >> >> in bash. >> >> Any tips ? >> > > arm_opts_exp=`echo echo $arm_opts | bash` > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 4 20:44:06 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 15:44:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: bash expansion help In-Reply-To: <45C5BAD9.3080903-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <45C5BAD9.3080903@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <20070204204406.05227DFC5@shell.vex.net> [ Charset UTF-8 unsupported, converting... ] > Hi everyone, > > I'm trying to find some method to expand this variable $arm_opts: > > "GENERIC_ARM ARM{610,710,720T,920T,922T,926T,_{SA110,SA1100,XSCALE}}" > > to this: > > "GENERIC_ARM ARM610 ARM710 ARM720T ARM920T ARM922T ARM926T ARM_SA110 > ARM_SA1100 ARM_XSCALE" Looks easy enough to parse in Perl. Any reason to insist on Bash? In BASH, I find it easier to parse through a list if you use space delimiters. I couldn't get it to work with my standard method. I suggest, if BASH is insisted upon and Perl must be avoided, that you use sed/awk (probably sed more than awk). In case you don't know (many seem to think sed is out of "fahsion"), sed is a parser, like perl (sed stands for Stream editor). THere are some similarities in syntax, but sed is not a language, like Perl is. Paul King > > in bash. > > Any tips ? > > > Thanks, > > ~/Chris > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 03:20:46 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 22:20:46 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> Message-ID: <45C6A28E.20104@telly.org> David J Patrick wrote: > If you're just embarrased, just say "huh, ubuntu fanboyz" and go back > to fragging. Ubuntu fanboyz. Yeah, that about sums it up. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 04:11:37 2007 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David C. chipman) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 23:11:37 -0500 Subject: File to Serial In-Reply-To: <45C3FEC7.10501-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45C372ED.7070306@alteeve.com> <98A4A2882BDF3249B4A3650DA062799F0652040F@daebe100.NOE.Nokia.com> <1170451446.3332.228.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <45C3FEC7.10501@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20070204231137.2e2950fb@david.chipman> Hi Lance, > > What is the purpose for this? Are you trying to print? Send a file > > to an archaic device? > > > > Got it in Two! ;) Can you tell us the background? It might be interesting. Later, -David Chipman -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 04:35:02 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 23:35:02 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <45C6A28E.20104-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C6A28E.20104@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070204233502.0132d8a3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 22:20:46 -0500 Evan Leibovitch got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > David J Patrick wrote: > > > If you're just embarrased, just say "huh, ubuntu fanboyz" and go back > > to fragging. > > Ubuntu fanboyz. Yeah, that about sums it up. ...lifting the box, David's prediction proved correct, and he shouted 'Take that Schrodinger!' ;-) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: Yeah, well I'm gonna build my own lunar space lander! With blackjack aaaaannd Hookers! Actually, forget the space lander, and the blackjack. Ahhhh forget the whole thing! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 04:46:19 2007 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 23:46:19 -0500 Subject: File to Serial In-Reply-To: <20070204231137.2e2950fb-lQMCrfjKGrJ3Ex1Y5TzZUg@public.gmane.org> References: <45C372ED.7070306@alteeve.com> <98A4A2882BDF3249B4A3650DA062799F0652040F@daebe100.NOE.Nokia.com> <1170451446.3332.228.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <45C3FEC7.10501@alteeve.com> <20070204231137.2e2950fb@david.chipman> Message-ID: <45C6B69B.6070604@alteeve.com> David C. chipman wrote: > > Can you tell us the background? It might be > interesting. Later, > > -David Chipman Ok, Picked up an ALEXtel (Bell) terminal. Was trying to get the NAPLPS files I have to display on it to see how it compared to the Telidon/Teleguide terminal I already had. Lance F. Squire -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 04:28:25 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 23:28:25 -0500 Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: <45C3FCE8.9030804-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <45C3725B.6010507@telly.org> <200702021331.29246.mggagne@salmar.com> <45C3CA9F.3050005@telly.org> <45C3FCE8.9030804@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <45C6B269.60907@telly.org> Jamon Camisso wrote: > We distributed over 100 cds and people were begging for more. I used to love my old steady supply of AOL floppies and CDs, they made for great coasters. Just because people love getting free stuff doesn't mean that a single one of those CDs is going to make its way onto someone's computer. But hey, it's your dime... > .. We were also quite adamant that no one be approached about Ubuntu, > but rather, the pitch was "Have you heard of Linux"? Well, all attempts to promote the event as a publicity stunt (accurately) mentioned that it was Ubuntu pulling the stunt. The CRN article may have tried to tar the broader community with the associated immaturity, and it indeed was the only publicity generated by the event outside of that generated by the participants themselves. > After that, out come the cds if people are interested. You'd be > surprised. The value is in actually talking to people, the cd is > totally secondary. Face time baby! Talk about condescention. Many people on this list -- including some with the worst criticisms of this dumb event -- have done more than their share of "face time". I for one am personally responsible for getting more than 3,000 Caldera CDs into the Toronto area more then a decade ago, back at a time when every distributed CD had to be accompanied by a lengthy description of what "this Lie-nux thing" was. Many other folks here have done at least as much, at the Toronto Linux Centre on Eastern Avenue, the National Installfest and other events that really had lasting effect. So please spare the johnny-come-lately lectures on the value of face time. Don't parrot the Ubuntu sentiment that they're inventing Linux advocacy. > But I think you fail to see what Ubuntu is doing for Linux. Just as > Stallman was and is rightly pissed about Linux overshadowing GNU, > Ubuntu may be doing the same in part for Linux. Good lord these guys are full of themselves, aren't they? Please don't take this personally, Jamon, but if you truly believe this you need some serious schooling on the history of Linux. There isn't a single tactic being trotted out -- except for the CD-mailed-anywhere thing funded out of Shuttleworth's pocket -- that hasn't been used by other advocates for many, many years. Ubuntu is at best a refinement of work already been done, it is certainly not the reinvention -- let alone the revolution -- that its cheerleaders claim. It is right now the leader (in certain criteria) amongst a crowded field of distributions, it is certainly a fine piece of work and currently my distro of choice. But it is no giant leap in technology or process from the rest of the pack. Unfortunately its cheerleaders, in the pitiful belief that their baby is indeed a breed apart from everything else, are rapidly alienating the greater community. The relationship between Ubuntu Toronto and TLUG (ie, there is no relationship) is typical. Is the fact that "F*ck Ubuntu" t-shirts are common at Debian meetings a source of pride? If you dismiss that as petty jealousy, you'd be wrong. > By this point I think that even the most idealistic can admit > GNU/Linux is totally not what the public wants to hear and is largely > academic to most anyways, so go figure. I guess we're not reading the same magazines. From my POV, Linux is now a cornerstone of the product strategies of IBM, Novell and Oracle. It's on track for submission as an ISO standard for operating systems, with equal status to POSIX. It's being suggested by analysts as a worthy alternative to a Vista upgrade, and is a source of increasing employment for its practitioners. It's still not for everyone -- especially those who want a great games machine -- but it's of value to a steadily increasing proportion of PC users. Writers like Marcel have been helping Linux be more accessible to the masses long before Ubuntu was a gleam in Mark Shuttleworth's eye. So no, I don't think it's largely academic. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 04:57:08 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 23:57:08 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <20070204233502.0132d8a3-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C6A28E.20104@telly.org> <20070204233502.0132d8a3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <200702042357.09094.softquake@gmail.com> On Sunday 04 February 2007 23:35, JoeHill wrote: > On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 22:20:46 -0500 > > Evan Leibovitch got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > David J Patrick wrote: > > > If you're just embarrased, just say "huh, ubuntu fanboyz" and go back > > > to fragging. > > > > Ubuntu fanboyz. Yeah, that about sums it up. > > ...lifting the box, David's prediction proved correct, and he shouted 'Take > that Schrodinger!' ;-) Schrodinger is a something. I am 10 years after doing physics but I can not forget Schrodinger equation. Now, I have Schrodinger's cats around! They are with me all the time. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 06:19:16 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 01:19:16 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <200702042357.09094.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C6A28E.20104@telly.org> <20070204233502.0132d8a3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <200702042357.09094.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070205011916.2b706fde@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Sun, 4 Feb 2007 23:57:08 -0500 Zbigniew Koziol got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > On Sunday 04 February 2007 23:35, JoeHill wrote: > > On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 22:20:46 -0500 > > > > Evan Leibovitch got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > > David J Patrick wrote: > > > > If you're just embarrased, just say "huh, ubuntu fanboyz" and go back > > > > to fragging. > > > > > > Ubuntu fanboyz. Yeah, that about sums it up. > > > > ...lifting the box, David's prediction proved correct, and he shouted 'Take > > that Schrodinger!' ;-) > > Schrodinger is a something. I am 10 years after doing physics but I can not > forget Schrodinger equation. Now, I have Schrodinger's cats around! They are > with me all the time. Jeez, I hope not literally! One of them is supposed to be...well, not too 'active', and both very very...radioactive! :-)) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Old robot: What are ye doing? Bender: We're whaling on the original were-car, which is you, you jerk. Old robot: Ye think me be he? Bender: Si. Old robot: Nee. I mean, no. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 07:07:02 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 02:07:02 -0500 Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: <45C6B269.60907-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45C3725B.6010507@telly.org> <200702021331.29246.mggagne@salmar.com> <45C3CA9F.3050005@telly.org> <45C3FCE8.9030804@utoronto.ca> <45C6B269.60907@telly.org> Message-ID: <45C6D796.8010504@utoronto.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: >> We distributed over 100 cds and people were begging for more. > I used to love my old steady supply of AOL floppies and CDs, they made > for great coasters. > > Just because people love getting free stuff doesn't mean that a single > one of those CDs is going to make its way onto someone's computer. But > hey, it's your dime... If 1% of those makes it into someone's computer, I think everyone involved would be happy. I know that 2 of the 3 police officers who were there walked away with CDS and all three actually knew about Linux and wanted to try the livecd. Now we're at 3% and that doesn't include the fellow who won a copy of Vista only to find that his system wouldn't run all that well with it and took an Ubuntu cd with great enthusiasm. My bet is anywhere from 5-10%. > Well, all attempts to promote the event as a publicity stunt > (accurately) mentioned that it was Ubuntu pulling the stunt. The CRN > article may have tried to tar the broader community with the associated > immaturity, and it indeed was the only publicity generated by the event > outside of that generated by the participants themselves. Because it was an Ubuntu effort. But then I don't think that most publicity just falls into people's laps. Moreover, I think that the 550+ digg users who weighed in on the event would agree. We've got a few new subscribers to the ubuntu-ca mailing list because of it, so I think the goal of promoting Linux (Ubuntu or otherwise) was achieved. I recruited two new TLUG members too, they might even pay for a membership :) > Talk about condescention. Many people on this list -- including some > with the worst criticisms of this dumb event -- have done more than > their share of "face time". I for one am personally responsible for > getting more than 3,000 Caldera CDs into the Toronto area more then a > decade ago, back at a time when every distributed CD had to be > accompanied by a lengthy description of what "this Lie-nux thing" was. > Many other folks here have done at least as much, at the Toronto Linux > Centre on Eastern Avenue, the National Installfest and other events that > really had lasting effect. If I was condescending, I apologize, it wasn't intended. It's easy to be overly flippant and terse when there was so much negative feedback, especially after standing in the cold for 3 hours. We got the same question as you too: what is Linux? Quite a few people sort of knew already. 3,000 is great, hopefully we can get a few thousand free Ubuntu discs to hand out too, at the caffe and at Ubuntu Toronto meetings and local events (there's talk of a Linuxworld or it360 or whatever it'll be called this year both). I'd be happy to hand out Fedora Core discs as well. > So please spare the johnny-come-lately lectures on the value of face > time. Don't parrot the Ubuntu sentiment that they're inventing Linux > advocacy. In 5 years of living in Toronto, the last few events of this year and the linuxcaffe itself are the best examples of face time I've seen. Maybe I live under a larger than average sized rock, but I'm pretty sure that as far as talking to normal people (not suits), right now Ubuntu Canada is it for Toronto. TLUG haven't been doing much advocacy from what I've seen. So instead of waiting or trying to integrate or cooperate, especially on short notice, it seems that sometimes it's just easier to go ahead and just do something where others are not. Anything, especially with inflatables. Ubuntu aren't inventing advocacy at all, but they're certainly doing something for it. Jono Bacon of Lugradio was hired by Canonical because of his advocacy work for example. He's someone who was working in the broader advocacy community in the UK that Canonical valued enough to put on salary. No mean feat. Maybe he just wanted a job, but his enthusiasm and passion for Ubuntu has convinced a few friends of mine to try it out. >> But I think you fail to see what Ubuntu is doing for Linux. Just as >> Stallman was and is rightly pissed about Linux overshadowing GNU, >> Ubuntu may be doing the same in part for Linux. > Good lord these guys are full of themselves, aren't they? Please don't > take this personally, Jamon, but if you truly believe this you need some > serious schooling on the history of Linux. You'll note the modal verb "may" in that last sentence. It denotes two things: first my opinion that there is a parallel to be considered; second, the epistemological uncertainty of said statement in my mind. Also, by these guys are you referring to myself or the group (which has a number of female members)? Additionally, you forget that I'm a recent Fedora user. You might be curious to know that of the people we spoke to at the event, many had heard of Ubuntu, but not Linux. Many had of course heard only of Linux. But go figure. > There isn't a single tactic being trotted out -- except for the > CD-mailed-anywhere thing funded out of Shuttleworth's pocket -- that > hasn't been used by other advocates for many, many years. Ubuntu is at > best a refinement of work already been done, it is certainly not the > reinvention -- let alone the revolution -- that its cheerleaders claim. > It is right now the leader (in certain criteria) amongst a crowded field > of distributions, it is certainly a fine piece of work and currently my > distro of choice. But it is no giant leap in technology or process from > the rest of the pack. Unfortunately its cheerleaders, in the pitiful > belief that their baby is indeed a breed apart from everything else, are > rapidly alienating the greater community. The relationship between > Ubuntu Toronto and TLUG (ie, there is no relationship) is typical. Is > the fact that "F*ck Ubuntu" t-shirts are common at Debian meetings a > source of pride? If you dismiss that as petty jealousy, you'd be wrong. Nothing comes along all that often that isn't a mere incremental improvement. It has been leading for a while now, and may well be overtaken at some point in the near or distant future. But for now, you can be sure that no one in the Ubuntu camp is going to let up. Is the greater community (by which I assume you mean FOSS in Toronto) what Ubuntu Canada/Toronto is after? I think not. Being a recognized team by Canonical frames the group's advocacy work in terms of small scale projects since the group is still small. The audience Ubuntu/Canonical is after as a whole is the desktop first and foremost at the moment, though it has made excellent inroads with the server market too (SPARC). I think Canonical is going after the desktop user and hoping that that will carry over into support contracts and general use on workstations and servers. I think the going marketing term for the approach is "grassroots". That disdained pitiful belief is what some might call dogged idealism, and from our familiarity with history, and by virtue of using GNU/Linux, I think we have an implicit respect and understanding of what such persistence and vision can accomplish, so let's not dismiss the current optimism (or fanboyishness if you would prefer) out of hand. Nor would I dismiss the Debian developers' concerns at all. Nor does Canonical from what I can tell. From Mark Shuttleworth's blog: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/56 "I?m of the opinion that Ubuntu could not exist without Debian. So it?s absolutely my intention to see that Ubuntu is a constructive part of the broader Debian landscape. It?s vital that Ubuntu help to sustain and grow Debian, because it?s the breadth and strength of Debian which make up the ?shoulders of greatness? on which we in the Ubuntu community stand when we reach for the stars." > I guess we're not reading the same magazines. From my POV, Linux is now > a cornerstone of the product strategies of IBM, Novell and Oracle. It's > on track for submission as an ISO standard for operating systems, with > equal status to POSIX. It's being suggested by analysts as a worthy > alternative to a Vista upgrade, and is a source of increasing employment > for its practitioners. It's still not for everyone -- especially those > who want a great games machine -- but it's of value to a steadily > increasing proportion of PC users. Writers like Marcel have been helping > Linux be more accessible to the masses long before Ubuntu was a gleam in > Mark Shuttleworth's eye. As a potential new user who I've just stopped on the street, I mention ISO standard and a computer, POSIX, IBM, Novell, or Oracle, and eyes are glazed over already. Those names have nothing to do (from the potential user's perspective) with the day to day interaction with their email, internet and wordprocessing and video/music enjoyment. > So no, I don't think it's largely academic. No we're reading the same magazines, but since the people we were talking to (and about) don't even know what Linux is half the time, never mind read Linuxjournal, it is academic in this context. It is academic to them I think, and counter-productive to add more acronyms and names to the mix when first introducing Linux on a person to person basis. I do recall posting on this list a few times extolling the virtues of calling it GNU/Linux and how figures like Stallman are necessary, so I'm confident in having it both ways here. What we could use are a few more tempered (read mature, knowledgeable, patient, whatever you like) people at any upcoming events like this past weekend's. There were quite a few people coming home from work on Yonge, and having some people dressed in suits doing PR would be a nice addition. Maybe some help in the planning stages would be useful too to prevent such stupidity of the CRN article (btw, what does making money off buying Canadian Tire money have to do at all with Linux!?) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 08:32:05 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 09:32:05 +0100 Subject: bash expansion help In-Reply-To: <20070204204406.05227DFC5-bEteefDXIgtmcu3hnIyYJQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070204204406.05227DFC5@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: <45C6EB85.90803@visible-assets.com> Hi Paul, I'm very familiar w/ sed, and I would gladly use it. However, I don't know enough about sed to use these types of regular expressions w/ it. I usually just attempt regexp stuff w/ range matching and whitespace. In this particular case, I would have needed to use some extension that had memory as well (for previous matches). I think something along the line of (1){a,b,c...} => 1a 1b 1c where a b c could have any number of the same patterns, would have done the trick... I'm not really sure how to code that w/ gnu or posix regular expressions... Any suggestions? It's probably pretty straight forward. Luckily, the expansion that I needed was exactly the same type of expansion used in bash for filenames. Except in this case, the items didn't actually represent filenames. For some reason I couldn't make bash do the proper expansion with ${}. so Steven's suggestion of echo echo $var | bash was exactly the solution I was looking for. I can't actually use perl in this case either, because my task is going to need to be run w/ a bare minimum of dependencies, and especially disk space. Bash for me was about as large as I wanted to get. Thanks for the reply in any case though ;-) Do you know the right way to key in the type of grep regexp mentioned above? I'll give it another shot - it would tidy up my code a bit anyway. ~/Chris Paul King wrote: > [ Charset UTF-8 unsupported, converting... ] >> Hi everyone, >> >> I'm trying to find some method to expand this variable $arm_opts: >> >> "GENERIC_ARM ARM{610,710,720T,920T,922T,926T,_{SA110,SA1100,XSCALE}}" >> >> to this: >> >> "GENERIC_ARM ARM610 ARM710 ARM720T ARM920T ARM922T ARM926T ARM_SA110 >> ARM_SA1100 ARM_XSCALE" > > Looks easy enough to parse in Perl. Any reason to insist on Bash? > > In BASH, I find it easier to parse through a list if you use space > delimiters. I couldn't get it to work with my standard method. I > suggest, if BASH is insisted upon and Perl must be avoided, that you use > sed/awk (probably sed more than awk). > > In case you don't know (many seem to think sed is out of "fahsion"), sed > is a parser, like perl (sed stands for Stream editor). THere are some > similarities in syntax, but sed is not a language, like Perl is. > > Paul King > >> in bash. >> >> Any tips ? >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> ~/Chris >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 08:48:36 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 03:48:36 -0500 Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: <45C6B269.60907-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45C3725B.6010507@telly.org> <200702021331.29246.mggagne@salmar.com> <45C3CA9F.3050005@telly.org> <45C3FCE8.9030804@utoronto.ca> <45C6B269.60907@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070205034836.21017ca5@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 23:28:25 -0500 Evan Leibovitch got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Jamon Camisso wrote: > > We distributed over 100 cds and people were begging for more. > I used to love my old steady supply of AOL floppies and CDs, they made > for great coasters. AOL dumped its half-assed wares on people who never requested them, blanketing the planet with CD-spam. From what I've heard, the only people walking away with Linux CD's at this event were those who showed at least some interest in them. Nice try, but...you hit nothing but air. > Just because people love getting free stuff doesn't mean that a single > one of those CDs is going to make its way onto someone's computer. But > hey, it's your dime... > > > .. We were also quite adamant that no one be approached about Ubuntu, > > but rather, the pitch was "Have you heard of Linux"? > Well, all attempts to promote the event as a publicity stunt > (accurately) mentioned that it was Ubuntu pulling the stunt. The CRN > article may have tried to tar the broader community with the associated > immaturity, and it indeed was the only publicity generated by the event > outside of that generated by the participants themselves. > > > After that, out come the cds if people are interested. You'd be > > surprised. The value is in actually talking to people, the cd is > > totally secondary. Face time baby! > Talk about condescention. Many people on this list -- including some > with the worst criticisms of this dumb event -- have done more than > their share of "face time". I for one am personally responsible for > getting more than 3,000 Caldera CDs into the Toronto area more then a > decade ago, Jeez, comparing Ubuntu CD's to those containing AOL and Caldera. What's next? An invokation of Godwin's Law? > back at a time when every distributed CD had to be accompanied by a lengthy > description of what "this Lie-nux thing" was. Many other folks here have done > at least as much, at the Toronto Linux Centre on Eastern Avenue, the National > Installfest and other events that really had lasting effect. > > So please spare the johnny-come-lately lectures on the value of face > time. Don't parrot the Ubuntu sentiment that they're inventing Linux > advocacy. > > > But I think you fail to see what Ubuntu is doing for Linux. Just as > > Stallman was and is rightly pissed about Linux overshadowing GNU, > > Ubuntu may be doing the same in part for Linux. > Good lord these guys are full of themselves, aren't they? Please don't > take this personally, Jamon, but if you truly believe this you need some > serious schooling on the history of Linux. Oh, please...I'm feeling queasy. > There isn't a single tactic being trotted out -- except for the > CD-mailed-anywhere thing funded out of Shuttleworth's pocket -- that > hasn't been used by other advocates for many, many years. Ubuntu is at > best a refinement of work already been done, it is certainly not the > reinvention -- let alone the revolution -- that its cheerleaders claim. > It is right now the leader (in certain criteria) amongst a crowded field > of distributions, it is certainly a fine piece of work and currently my > distro of choice. But it is no giant leap in technology or process from > the rest of the pack. I see, so once you've put your revolutionary mark on the planet, no one else dare claim to do any great work, it is all 'derivative'. Had my fill of this 20 years ago from the 'Kings English' people. Didn't have wings then, and still can't get off the ground today. > Unfortunately its cheerleaders, in the pitiful belief that their baby is > indeed a breed apart from everything else, are rapidly alienating the greater > community. The relationship between Ubuntu Toronto and TLUG (ie, there is no > relationship) is typical. Is the fact that "F*ck Ubuntu" t-shirts are common > at Debian meetings a source of pride? If you dismiss that as petty jealousy, > you'd be wrong. Ah, so now we see the beginnings of the ad-hominem attacks, only by proxy. Nice. > > By this point I think that even the most idealistic can admit > > GNU/Linux is totally not what the public wants to hear and is largely > > academic to most anyways, so go figure. > I guess we're not reading the same magazines. From my POV, Linux is now > a cornerstone of the product strategies of IBM, Novell and Oracle. It's > on track for submission as an ISO standard for operating systems, with > equal status to POSIX. It's being suggested by analysts as a worthy > alternative to a Vista upgrade, and is a source of increasing employment > for its practitioners. It's still not for everyone -- especially those > who want a great games machine -- but it's of value to a steadily > increasing proportion of PC users. Writers like Marcel have been helping > Linux be more accessible to the masses long before Ubuntu was a gleam in > Mark Shuttleworth's eye. Here comes the 'we made great, now it's being taken over by a bunch of crazy hippies'. Wow, never heard that one before. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Fry: What are we going to do? Professor: Duh, I know, let's play the lottery. Amy: No, let's buy internet stock. Zoidberg: On margin! Zoidbee wants to buy on margin. Hermes: Look at me! I'm invisible. Fry: Wait a minute, I know what's going on here. You've all become idiots. Bender: Hey, let's go join the Reform party! Everyone: Yeah! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 10:50:26 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 13:50:26 +0300 Subject: Hardware indentification through a ssh session Message-ID: Hey Pals, Lets say you have a dell boxs somewhere remote. Is there a way one can tell the hardware model of the equipments other than physically being there? I have pocked around /proc and dmesg and all I see are generic stuff. I am looking for stuff like serial number and other details needed for hardware inventory. Advice and thanks in advance William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 14:27:37 2007 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 09:27:37 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <200702042357.09094.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C6A28E.20104@telly.org> <20070204233502.0132d8a3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <200702042357.09094.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070205142736.GE10225@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 11:57:08PM -0500, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Schrodinger is a something. I am 10 years after doing physics but I can not > forget Schrodinger equation. Now, I have Schrodinger's cats around! They are > with me all the time. Schrodinger's cats would both be with you all the time and not with you ever. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 14:11:07 2007 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 09:11:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Hardware indentification through a ssh session In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Feb 2007, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Lets say you have a dell boxs somewhere remote. Is there a way one can tell > the hardware model of the equipments other than physically being there? I > have pocked around /proc and dmesg and all I see are generic stuff. I am > looking for stuff like serial number and other details needed for hardware > inventory. If you install Dell's Open Manage (OM) tools, this information is available via SNMP as well as via thier web interface on port 1311. Terry -- Terry Tanski, BSc RHCE Email: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 16:24:56 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 11:24:56 -0500 Subject: playing with ubuntu first time In-Reply-To: <200702021807.26487.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070201155519.GA16957@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200702021625.33438.softquake@gmail.com> <200702021807.26487.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070205162456.GR7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 06:07:26PM -0500, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Installing from source gives me more freedom. Isn't Linux about freedom? > That's why I use it. I want to have a possibility to test various extra > optional packages/configurations and installing by apt-get or any other > similar toy does not give me that. The sensible methods for doing this are: Get the apt package source, change the build options, and add a .1 to the version number (dch -i), then build the package (dpkb-buildpackage -us -uc -b). Then you can install it with dpkg -i whatever.deb, and perhaps put it on hold (echo "packagename hold"|dpkg --set-selections) to make sure it doesn't upgrade without your knowledge. or.. Create an equivs package to fullfill the dependancies so that everything else knows that the package really is installed. Fighting the package system is just dumb and asking for trouble. If you don't want to take advantage of a package system to solve problems, you may be better off using something that doesn't even have one. I highly recommend the first option. It has served me well for many years now, and avoided exactly the kind of problem you are having. Building things problem and installing them problerly is rather nice. It means you know exactly where things are and everything on the system is able to be managed the same way. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 16:31:53 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 11:31:53 -0500 Subject: bash expansion help In-Reply-To: <20070204215327.GF91169-bEteefDXIgtmcu3hnIyYJQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200702032234.16955.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <45C5BAD9.3080903@visible-assets.com> <20070204215327.GF91169@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: <20070205163153.GS7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 04:53:27PM -0500, Steve Harvey wrote: > arm_opts_exp=`echo echo $arm_opts | bash` Whatever is the '| bash' part for? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 16:32:36 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 11:32:36 -0500 Subject: Hardware indentification through a ssh session In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070205163236.GT7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 01:50:26PM +0300, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Lets say you have a dell boxs somewhere remote. Is there a way one can tell > the hardware model of the equipments other than physically being there? I > have pocked around /proc and dmesg and all I see are generic stuff. I am > looking for stuff like serial number and other details needed for hardware > inventory. > Advice and thanks in advance You could try 'dmidecode'. That might give it to you. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 17:48:51 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 12:48:51 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> Message-ID: On 03/02/07, David J Patrick wrote: > 3pm, they're going again ! > if you want to join in, c'mon down. Thanks to the penguinistas who braved the cold a second day, and to those who cheered the event on. Dave Sullivans' wrap-up can be found at http://dave-sullivan.com/entries/5/ with flikr images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/66336472 at N00/377869110/in/set-72157594514735917/ and for fun, google "ice house linux toronto" To those of you who felt that is was a cheap publicity stunt, (cost, including CDs pamphlets, a new 12v supply and cab fare ~ $245.00) and/ or that it was an embarrassment to the community, I would like to say "hey lighten up and have a little FUN !". Rather than lift noses in disdain, catch a whiff of a fresh wave of enthusiasm and adoption. Get used to it, Enjoy it. The days of linux and Free Software belonging to us geek elite, are nearly over. Can you say "mainstream" ? djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 17:57:41 2007 From: sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Steve Harvey) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 12:57:41 -0500 Subject: bash expansion help In-Reply-To: <20070205163153.GS7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200702032234.16955.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <45C5BAD9.3080903@visible-assets.com> <20070204215327.GF91169@shell.vex.net> <20070205163153.GS7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070205175741.GG91169@shell.vex.net> On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 11:31:53AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 04:53:27PM -0500, Steve Harvey wrote: > > arm_opts_exp=`echo echo $arm_opts | bash` > > Whatever is the '| bash' part for? bash will happily do recursive brace expansion on it's input: $ #I'm using a pared down version for brevity $ echo GENERIC_ARM ARM{610,710,_{SA110,SA1100,XSCALE}} GENERIC_ARM ARM610 ARM710 ARM_SA110 ARM_SA1100 ARM_XSCALE $ # Presuming it's a variable within a script that we want to expand $ arm_opts="GENERIC_ARM ARM{610,710,_{SA110,SA1100,XSCALE}}" $ echo $arm_opts GENERIC_ARM ARM{610,710,_{SA110,SA1100,XSCALE}} $ # not what we want, therefore pipe it into bash Can you find a way do do this with less overhead? I count two invocations of the shell, one implicit by using `` and one explicit. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 18:09:08 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 13:09:08 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> Message-ID: <45C772C4.2090200@telly.org> David J Patrick wrote: > To those of you who felt that is was a cheap publicity stunt, (cost, > including CDs pamphlets, a new 12v supply and cab fare ~ $245.00) > and/or that it was an embarrassment to the community, I would like to > say "hey lighten up and have a little FUN!". Hey, nothing says that it couldn't be both fun _and_ an embarrassment! > Get used to it, Enjoy it. Hey, it's your $245, for the right to stand outside of someone else's party in -20 windchill, and remind passers-by why you weren't invited. Have a blast. If I'm going to be voluntarily out in that kind of weather I'd better be wearing skis or helping the homeless. > The days of linux and Free Software belonging to us geek elite, are > nearly over. Can you say "mainstream"? Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 18:16:54 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 13:16:54 -0500 Subject: bash expansion help In-Reply-To: <20070205175741.GG91169-bEteefDXIgtmcu3hnIyYJQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200702032234.16955.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <45C5BAD9.3080903@visible-assets.com> <20070204215327.GF91169@shell.vex.net> <20070205163153.GS7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070205175741.GG91169@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: <20070205181654.GU7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 12:57:41PM -0500, Steve Harvey wrote: > bash will happily do recursive brace expansion on it's input: > > $ #I'm using a pared down version for brevity > $ echo GENERIC_ARM ARM{610,710,_{SA110,SA1100,XSCALE}} > GENERIC_ARM ARM610 ARM710 ARM_SA110 ARM_SA1100 ARM_XSCALE > $ # Presuming it's a variable within a script that we want to expand > $ arm_opts="GENERIC_ARM ARM{610,710,_{SA110,SA1100,XSCALE}}" > $ echo $arm_opts > GENERIC_ARM ARM{610,710,_{SA110,SA1100,XSCALE}} > $ # not what we want, therefore pipe it into bash > > Can you find a way do do this with less overhead? I count two > invocations of the shell, one implicit by using `` and one explicit. Hmm, I missed that if was expanding $arm_opts. I had been playing with it as just foo=`echo ARM{610,710,_{SA110,SA1100,XSCALE}}` which didn't need another shell. Given the extra variable, no I don't think I can find a shorter method. Not sure eval or anything else would do it, but it would take more characters to do it for sure. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 19:02:23 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 14:02:23 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <45C772C4.2090200-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C772C4.2090200@telly.org> Message-ID: <45C77F3F.8090505@utoronto.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > David J Patrick wrote: >> To those of you who felt that is was a cheap publicity stunt, (cost, >> including CDs pamphlets, a new 12v supply and cab fare ~ $245.00) >> and/or that it was an embarrassment to the community, I would like to >> say "hey lighten up and have a little FUN!". > Hey, nothing says that it couldn't be both fun _and_ an embarrassment! Nothing embarrassing about the event hitting the front page of digg a 2 times in as may days. Nor is there anything embarrassing about 1600+ hits per hour with a peak of 11,000 per hour at one point on my tiny xen server hosting my photos of the event and Dave Sullivan's post-event wrapup. 77,000 hits in 2 days and counting... http://dave-sullivan.com/entries/5/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/66336472 at N00/ 2,500+ views on those photos and counting, so washout and embarrassment it was not. >> Get used to it, Enjoy it. > Hey, it's your $245, for the right to stand outside of someone else's > party in -20 windchill, and remind passers-by why you weren't invited. > Have a blast. If I'm going to be voluntarily out in that kind of weather > I'd better be wearing skis or helping the homeless. Why would we be invited in any situation? We had a blast and the weather made it that much more of a memorable experience. Saturday was colder too from what I hear... >> The days of linux and Free Software belonging to us geek elite, are >> nearly over. Can you say "mainstream"? > > Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. The implication there being that we have now condemned ourselves to some terrible future repetition of a horrific past in GNU/Linux's history? Huh? Don't know what you're referring to there. I think there may be more of a generation gap at work here than any of us care to admit. However, repeating the past in an iteratively improving fashion isn't a bad thing if there are improvements to be made (IMHO of course). So trotting out a cliche like that lends your argument little force, rhetorical or otherwise. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 20:39:34 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 15:39:34 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <45C77F3F.8090505-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C772C4.2090200@telly.org> <45C77F3F.8090505@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070205153934.211c92f4@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 14:02:23 -0500 Jamon Camisso got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > David J Patrick wrote: > >> To those of you who felt that is was a cheap publicity stunt, (cost, > >> including CDs pamphlets, a new 12v supply and cab fare ~ $245.00) > >> and/or that it was an embarrassment to the community, I would like to > >> say "hey lighten up and have a little FUN!". > > Hey, nothing says that it couldn't be both fun _and_ an embarrassment! > > Nothing embarrassing about the event hitting the front page of digg a 2 > times in as may days. Nor is there anything embarrassing about 1600+ > hits per hour with a peak of 11,000 per hour at one point on my tiny xen > server hosting my photos of the event and Dave Sullivan's post-event > wrapup. 77,000 hits in 2 days and counting... > > http://dave-sullivan.com/entries/5/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/66336472 at N00/ > > 2,500+ views on those photos and counting, so washout and embarrassment > it was not. Excellent work, all. Really, my only regret (perhaps not yours, eh? heh...) is that I could not be there to cheer you on. I hope that someday soon I will have the guts, and the self control (;-)) to be a part of something like this without being too tempted to beat the hell out of the other side just for my own jollies. I'm workin' on that. Once again, brilliant job, all that is good in the world flows from this kind of spirit, don't ever let the Scrooges get you down, you're fightin' the good fight (without fighting, of course) :-) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: I can't keep running people over. I'm not famous enough to get away with it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 20:41:54 2007 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 15:41:54 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <45C77F3F.8090505-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C772C4.2090200@telly.org> <45C77F3F.8090505@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <45C79692.9050206@yahoo.ca> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Nothing embarrassing about the event hitting the front page of digg a 2 > times in as may days. Nor is there anything embarrassing about 1600+ > hits per hour with a peak of 11,000 per hour at one point on my tiny xen > server hosting my photos of the event and Dave Sullivan's post-event > wrapup. 77,000 hits in 2 days and counting... > I think there may be more of a generation gap at work here than any of > us care to admit. However, repeating the past in an iteratively > improving fashion isn't a bad thing if there are improvements to be made > (IMHO of course). So trotting out a cliche like that lends your argument > little force, rhetorical or otherwise. Caveat: I'm in the advertising/marketing business. :) TLinux needs quality advertising and endorsements. This grass roots thing isn't effective, (in this case) because it reinforces the stereo type that Linux enthusiasts are nothing but hobbyists, poor students or geeks. Not that there is anything wrong with either of those, but you get my drift, I'm sure. Judging the success of your endeavour by how many digg hits or visits to your personal blog, doesn't mean much in the real world. Now, if you got some publicity on the main stream blogs or media (as long as it's good publicity) that would be rather successful, in my view. The kind of advertising that Linux requires,(IMO) is the kind geared towards decision makers, and definitely NOT the kind were you're essentially, crashing another's party. That's pretty negative in my book -- I don't know many people that are that impressed with the type of advertising that happened on the weekend (outside the ice house). In my mind it's no different than being a Jehovah Witness, or an Evangelical, passing out tracts on the street corner, it's just about as effective. I'm not really sure that Geeks are the best suited for this type of work. There generally is a reason why Marketing is separate from Engineering. So obviously I don't think LUGs are good for this either. ;) It really has nothing to do with a perceived "generation gap", more in knowing how to sell to your customer. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 21:20:33 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 16:20:33 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <45C79692.9050206-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C772C4.2090200@telly.org> <45C77F3F.8090505@utoronto.ca> <45C79692.9050206@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <20070205162033.06255b65@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 15:41:54 -0500 Stephen Allen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > I'm not really sure that Geeks are the best suited for this type of > work. Yes, Linus was an unmitigated failure for over a decade until the genuises with the demographics charts stepped in. > There generally is a reason why Marketing is separate from > Engineering. So obviously I don't think LUGs are good for this either. ;) Don't call us, we'll call you ;-) > It really has nothing to do with a perceived "generation gap", more in > knowing how to sell to your customer. Oh, yeah, Marketing has done such wonders for the progress of human civilization. Just look at all the great things we've accomplished with the trillions we've spent on advertising, everything from eating disorders and smoking to the success of Britney Spears and Fox News. Yeeha! -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: If it ain't black and white, peck, scratch and bite. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 22:15:00 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 17:15:00 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <45C79692.9050206-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C772C4.2090200@telly.org> <45C77F3F.8090505@utoronto.ca> <45C79692.9050206@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <45C7AC64.4060508@utoronto.ca> Stephen Allen wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: > >> Nothing embarrassing about the event hitting the front page of digg a 2 >> times in as may days. Nor is there anything embarrassing about 1600+ >> hits per hour with a peak of 11,000 per hour at one point on my tiny xen >> server hosting my photos of the event and Dave Sullivan's post-event >> wrapup. 77,000 hits in 2 days and counting... > > > >> I think there may be more of a generation gap at work here than any of >> us care to admit. However, repeating the past in an iteratively >> improving fashion isn't a bad thing if there are improvements to be made >> (IMHO of course). So trotting out a cliche like that lends your argument >> little force, rhetorical or otherwise. > > Caveat: I'm in the advertising/marketing business. :) > > TLinux needs quality advertising and endorsements. This grass roots > thing isn't effective, (in this case) because it reinforces the stereo > type that Linux enthusiasts are nothing but hobbyists, poor students or > geeks. So I shouldn't bother getting people to try it out because you aren't out there with me? Dundas Square is a great location judging by the number of other poor students and hobbyists who were there. Geeks too. Just remember these words I heard once from a marketing friend who no doubt picked it up from somewhere else: "Geek is chic" > Not that there is anything wrong with either of those, but you get my > drift, I'm sure. > > Judging the success of your endeavour by how many digg hits or visits to > your personal blog, doesn't mean much in the real world. Perhaps there is more to it than just "real world" success. After all, if someone hears about it and downloads a binary copy, what's real about that apart from electrons over a few tubes? Real or not, I heard about Linux online, learned about it online, downloaded and installed it without ever meeting anyone in the "real world" of which you speak. Suffice to say that I'm guilty on all counts of shameless idealism and complete and utter contempt for the middle class panacea of the "real world" which I'm sure consists largely of white, responsible, pragmatic and career or family oriented, middle management types and decision makers. Overly harsh, I know, but I hear this real world thing often enough to know that it is usually a thinly veiled (unacknowledged?) attempt to keep people from trying to do something where they just might succeed where another has failed. I do not mean to imply anything by that statement, your intent is simply to dismiss, not cut down or belittle. > Now, if you got some publicity on the main stream blogs or media (as > long as it's good publicity) that would be rather successful, in my view. Digg is not a small site by any means. Not a "mainstream" blog (of which I'm sure many are commercialized to the point of impenetrability anyways), but not something to be totally written off either. > The kind of advertising that Linux requires,(IMO) is the kind geared > towards decision makers, and definitely NOT the kind were you're > essentially, crashing another's party. > > That's pretty negative in my book -- I don't know many people that are > that impressed with the type of advertising that happened on the weekend > (outside the ice house). In my mind it's no different than being a > Jehovah Witness, or an Evangelical, passing out tracts on the street > corner, it's just about as effective. Suits or not, apart from this list and the MSDN forums, the feedback has been overwhelmingly positive. And what utter nonsense that religious bit, whatever the Church of Stallman might say to the contrary. Absolutely different as there is no implicit or explicit moralizing or judgment of the people we were talking to, nor (at least for me) is/was there any smugness involved. Totally different. And effective too as we had someone else post back that they had tried the disc and liked it. > I'm not really sure that Geeks are the best suited for this type of > work. There generally is a reason why Marketing is separate from > Engineering. So obviously I don't think LUGs are good for this either. ;) > > It really has nothing to do with a perceived "generation gap", more in > knowing how to sell to your customer. Who is precisely on the side of the gap that doesn't care about corporate decision making yet. We're not talking about customers, we're talking about and to people--there is a huge difference in approaches. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 22:56:45 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 17:56:45 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <45C7AC64.4060508-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C772C4.2090200@telly.org> <45C77F3F.8090505@utoronto.ca> <45C79692.9050206@yahoo.ca> <45C7AC64.4060508@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1170716205.4405.717.camel@stan64.site> I have some questions/comments .. My girl friend is using Linux now, has been for a few weeks at least, she doesn't even know about any connection between a penguin/tux and linux. Someone who has never even heard of Linux before, I can't imagine they are somehow going to magically make a connection? I think it would be useful to get tux a tatoo on his belly/chest area that says "Linux", maybe have him holding a flag? just a thought. In one of the blogs it said the Police ask who is in charge, and someone stepped forward ..... do you really need to appoint someone to be "in charge" of a group demonstration? Probably better that any official of law enforcement are told it was truly a group initiative. I actually am very much in support of the linux demonstration at the ice house, but I also do understand what the neigh-sayers points are too about the real impact and such. You have to start somewhere however, and unless you can pay someone to float a blimp above the city (say like pink floyd did years past), this (ice house demo.)is a pretty economical way to start. You even got listed now on linux.org and linuxtoday.com !!! If one were to plan even a bigger party crash, i wonder ..... you got booted off dundas square because its apparently private property?, but if the event had of been bigger, many more people, could the police have even muscled you off the sidewalk and in general just plain told you to pack it up and keep it out of sight? I was thinking what would have been ideal, for impact, would be a 30" lcd monitor hooked to a portable running some jaw dropping beryl/xgl demo (with help of a rather large battery system i guess...). And give out DVD like a gamix live DVD/cd so the receiver of it can get to something good (a game) and later bask in the reflection of a superior OS if their attention is held long enough. Linux is a really hard sell (to the home desktop), just because people don't like change in that area for the most part. I do look at the success of linux coming more from the business side, and commercial side, with thing like cell phones runing linux, and the purchaser doesn't really care to know its linux, but the name branding gets out there, or a company like PSA Peugeot Citroen putting potential 20K people at their offices on a Suse desktop, which , once the employee is use to it, and needs to up grade their OS at home ... good things can happen. I think that giving out free CD/DVD distro's is good, but what is even better is that you can claim that something really cool runs on there (ala live version) that a person would want to see, irregardless of it being linux or not, like a game (i.e. gamix). This would probably drastically increase the take up rate of someone actually attempting to use it once they do get it home. I think the really cool thing about the ice house demo. is that, there might have/be a chance to get say coverage on CITY-TV "newscaster in the street segment", or something like that, that is, more the traditional reason you do a protest/demonstration, to get what is usually very expensive media coverage on TV. Put another 10 people on the corner handing out DVD/CD and someone with a connection to Mozes Znaimer and maybe next time you can make the 11:00 news with a headline like "Linux supporters with a 20' high penguin crash MS and Bill Gates Vista coming out party" ... :) -tl On Mon, 2007-02-05 at 17:15 -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Stephen Allen wrote: > > Jamon Camisso wrote: > > > >> Nothing embarrassing about the event hitting the front page of digg a 2 > >> times in as may days. Nor is there anything embarrassing about 1600+ > >> hits per hour with a peak of 11,000 per hour at one point on my tiny xen > >> server hosting my photos of the event and Dave Sullivan's post-event > >> wrapup. 77,000 hits in 2 days and counting... > > > > > > > >> I think there may be more of a generation gap at work here than any of > >> us care to admit. However, repeating the past in an iteratively > >> improving fashion isn't a bad thing if there are improvements to be made > >> (IMHO of course). So trotting out a cliche like that lends your argument > >> little force, rhetorical or otherwise. > > > > Caveat: I'm in the advertising/marketing business. :) > > > > TLinux needs quality advertising and endorsements. This grass roots > > thing isn't effective, (in this case) because it reinforces the stereo > > type that Linux enthusiasts are nothing but hobbyists, poor students or > > geeks. > > So I shouldn't bother getting people to try it out because you aren't > out there with me? Dundas Square is a great location judging by the > number of other poor students and hobbyists who were there. Geeks too. > > Just remember these words I heard once from a marketing friend who no > doubt picked it up from somewhere else: "Geek is chic" > > > Not that there is anything wrong with either of those, but you get my > > drift, I'm sure. > > > > Judging the success of your endeavour by how many digg hits or visits to > > your personal blog, doesn't mean much in the real world. > > Perhaps there is more to it than just "real world" success. After all, > if someone hears about it and downloads a binary copy, what's real about > that apart from electrons over a few tubes? Real or not, I heard about > Linux online, learned about it online, downloaded and installed it > without ever meeting anyone in the "real world" of which you speak. > Suffice to say that I'm guilty on all counts of shameless idealism and > complete and utter contempt for the middle class panacea of the "real > world" which I'm sure consists largely of white, responsible, pragmatic > and career or family oriented, middle management types and decision makers. > > Overly harsh, I know, but I hear this real world thing often enough to > know that it is usually a thinly veiled (unacknowledged?) attempt to > keep people from trying to do something where they just might succeed > where another has failed. I do not mean to imply anything by that > statement, your intent is simply to dismiss, not cut down or belittle. > > > Now, if you got some publicity on the main stream blogs or media (as > > long as it's good publicity) that would be rather successful, in my view. > > Digg is not a small site by any means. Not a "mainstream" blog (of which > I'm sure many are commercialized to the point of impenetrability > anyways), but not something to be totally written off either. > > > The kind of advertising that Linux requires,(IMO) is the kind geared > > towards decision makers, and definitely NOT the kind were you're > > essentially, crashing another's party. > > > > That's pretty negative in my book -- I don't know many people that are > > that impressed with the type of advertising that happened on the weekend > > (outside the ice house). In my mind it's no different than being a > > Jehovah Witness, or an Evangelical, passing out tracts on the street > > corner, it's just about as effective. > > Suits or not, apart from this list and the MSDN forums, the feedback has > been overwhelmingly positive. > > And what utter nonsense that religious bit, whatever the Church of > Stallman might say to the contrary. Absolutely different as there is no > implicit or explicit moralizing or judgment of the people we were > talking to, nor (at least for me) is/was there any smugness involved. > Totally different. And effective too as we had someone else post back > that they had tried the disc and liked it. > > > I'm not really sure that Geeks are the best suited for this type of > > work. There generally is a reason why Marketing is separate from > > Engineering. So obviously I don't think LUGs are good for this either. ;) > > > > It really has nothing to do with a perceived "generation gap", more in > > knowing how to sell to your customer. > > Who is precisely on the side of the gap that doesn't care about > corporate decision making yet. We're not talking about customers, we're > talking about and to people--there is a huge difference in approaches. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 5 23:35:54 2007 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 18:35:54 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <45C7AC64.4060508-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C772C4.2090200@telly.org> <45C77F3F.8090505@utoronto.ca> <45C79692.9050206@yahoo.ca> <45C7AC64.4060508@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <92ee967a0702051535g3b261b06q13435c9f39260ed3@mail.gmail.com> On 2/5/07, Jamon Camisso wrote: ... > So I shouldn't bother getting people to try it out because you aren't > out there with me? Dundas Square is a great location judging by the > number of other poor students and hobbyists who were there. Geeks too. > > Just remember these words I heard once from a marketing friend who no > doubt picked it up from somewhere else: "Geek is chic" I think the Penguin did a good job to remind Microsoft and the general public that they can't lay claim to public spaces unchallenged. That was important IMHO. Good marketing message. Bad sales pitch :-) There's a mixed metaphor in all this somewhere. Those who throw pitches from ice houses attract penguins? -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 00:10:16 2007 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 19:10:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <20070205153934.211c92f4-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20070205153934.211c92f4@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <705687.44322.qm@web61315.mail.yahoo.com> I missed the event. I thought the "David please tell me ....." thread was some personal dispute that occasionally arise on this list. Otherwise, I could have helped with burning some CDs. Personally, I am thrilled by what you guys did. Linux started and grew out of community effort not by marketing army. It became what it is by merit not by marketing fud. The merit was a result of fun loving, creative minds rather than money mongers. As for marketing Linux as a brand, Microsoft will soon join the band. It is the spirit, the economic model embodied in Open Source/Free Software that matters and it is best promoted by fresh faced enthusiasts. EK JoeHill wrote: On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 14:02:23 -0500 Jamon Camisso got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > David J Patrick wrote: > >> To those of you who felt that is was a cheap publicity stunt, (cost, > >> including CDs pamphlets, a new 12v supply and cab fare ~ $245.00) > >> and/or that it was an embarrassment to the community, I would like to > >> say "hey lighten up and have a little FUN!". > > Hey, nothing says that it couldn't be both fun _and_ an embarrassment! > > Nothing embarrassing about the event hitting the front page of digg a 2 > times in as may days. Nor is there anything embarrassing about 1600+ > hits per hour with a peak of 11,000 per hour at one point on my tiny xen > server hosting my photos of the event and Dave Sullivan's post-event > wrapup. 77,000 hits in 2 days and counting... > > http://dave-sullivan.com/entries/5/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/66336472 at N00/ > > 2,500+ views on those photos and counting, so washout and embarrassment > it was not. Excellent work, all. Really, my only regret (perhaps not yours, eh? heh...) is that I could not be there to cheer you on. I hope that someday soon I will have the guts, and the self control (;-)) to be a part of something like this without being too tempted to beat the hell out of the other side just for my own jollies. I'm workin' on that. Once again, brilliant job, all that is good in the world flows from this kind of spirit, don't ever let the Scrooges get you down, you're fightin' the good fight (without fighting, of course) :-) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: I can't keep running people over. I'm not famous enough to get away with it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists --------------------------------- All new Yahoo! Mail --------------------------------- Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 00:29:35 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 19:29:35 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <1170716205.4405.717.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C772C4.2090200@telly.org> <45C77F3F.8090505@utoronto.ca> <45C79692.9050206@yahoo.ca> <45C7AC64.4060508@utoronto.ca> <1170716205.4405.717.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <45C7CBEF.7040508@telly.org> ted leslie wrote: > You even got listed now on linux.org and linuxtoday.com !!! > Was the intent to be admired by other geeks, or to get publicity amongst those who were not familiar with Linux? Notice on linux.org/LinuxToday/Digg/etc. is simply preaching/boasting to the converted. And while peer recognition is a significant motivation behind FOSS activities, it wasn't the stated reason for the event. This isn't about a generation gap, it's about being honest who's attention you're trying to attract. The mainstream media didn't really pay that much attention to the Microsoft event, which itself was only a dumb stunt. So if they're not interested in the host, why would they care about the parasite? The only media which reported on the event which is not mainly read by geeks or existing Linux users -- CRN, which has a circulation of about 30K of which many are not just users but influencers as well -- was critical. Even if there were some positive responses, the net result was likely a negative. > If one were to plan even a bigger party crash, i wonder ..... you got booted off dundas square because its apparently private property? I suspect that Dundas Square is public property, but that events staged there require permits. > Linux is a really hard sell (to the home desktop), just because people don't like change in that area for the most part. There are a zillion reasons. Top of the list is that most people DON'T CARE about the OS, they use what's shipped with the PC and everything else is too much bother. For the masses that Ubuntu proponents seem to care so much about, switching to Linux is only the last stage of a long necessary learning process most people would prefer to ignore. Before one can get to the deeper issues (Linux versus Windows, Ubuntu versus other distros, open source versus proprietary), the biggest -- and most difficult -- convincing is to convince people why they should even care about their OS. It doesn't matter to the mainstream if Linux is easier to install than Windows, if Windows is already pre-installed. It doesn't matter that Linux runs games, because Windows runs more games (and supports the most popular games in a manner that Linux doesn't). It doesn't matter to most that Linux is less buggy if help desks support it better. Buggy and broken as Windows is, PC makers and ISPs understand it and its warts, and it's stable _enough_ for most people. Personally, I believe now that it's just dumb to assert that most non-IT people can be convinced to switch to Linux through direct convincing, any more than they can be convinced that a car will run better by replacing the manufacturer's muffler on their car with a performance model. Car enthusiasts will know the difference in mufflers, most drivers don't care. Same thing with operating systems. I personally find it FAR more effective to ease IT-phobic people into open source by introducing them to OpenOffice, Firefox and Thunderbird (and maybe Gimp) for Windows. Those projects, unlike Linux, offer compelling reasons for a typical Windows user to install (ie, no-cost office suite and a browser with popup blockers) Once they've had some time with these apps, one can then gently teach how the same benefits that open source brings to office suites and net clients can be had at the OS level -- but it's still a hard sell, and most will be satisfied with FOSS applications on Windows. The Linux desktop still has a far better chance of catching on in business than amongst the general public, and business IT decision makers are more likely to be reading CRN than Digg. Maybe the Ubuntu crowd will continue to assert that the IT-ignorant masses can be convinced through stunts and eye-candy. I would hope that they might re-examine their tactics, work with the greater community, and consider the real targets (and consequences) of their promotional stunts. If you're just trying to be k3wl in front of other open source activists, then presenting any kind of an annoyance to Microsoft is always good exposure. But at least be honest about it. If there is, OTOH, a genuine interest in getting to the masses, the required tactics take far more thought and planning than Ubuntu (or Canonical, for that matter) has shown to date. Working with the greater community, rather than in isolation for the benefit of Ubuntu-specific branding awareness (which is itself 100% marketing), will help move this forward. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 01:54:24 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 20:54:24 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <45C7CBEF.7040508-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C772C4.2090200@telly.org> <45C77F3F.8090505@utoronto.ca> <45C79692.9050206@yahoo.ca> <45C7AC64.4060508@utoronto.ca> <1170716205.4405.717.camel@stan64.site> <45C7CBEF.7040508@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070205205424.5a54f9d7@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 19:29:35 -0500 Evan Leibovitch got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: Next demo: Evan's house! -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Lucy Liu: That was incredible, Bender. You're like Jackie Chan before he got all doughy. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 02:29:51 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 21:29:51 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <20070205205424.5a54f9d7-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C772C4.2090200@telly.org> <45C77F3F.8090505@utoronto.ca> <45C79692.9050206@yahoo.ca> <45C7AC64.4060508@utoronto.ca> <1170716205.4405.717.camel@stan64.site> <45C7CBEF.7040508@telly.org> <20070205205424.5a54f9d7@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <45C7E81F.4080500@telly.org> JoeHill wrote: > Next demo: Evan's house! > Sure, why not? It would be just as effective as the last one. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 04:16:59 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 23:16:59 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <705687.44322.qm-oJNNZefkkGSA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <705687.44322.qm@web61315.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45C8013B.4070309@rogers.com> Screw the douches that are afraid of harmful advocacy. Since when was linux about playing nice with the main stream or trying to land more sheeple converts? You've lost yer way brethren. Ubuntu == meh. Any distro designed to lure mom & pop == meh. You ever notice the world we live in now? Folks are lost, dudes & dudettes, and we're not going to get them back. Don't bother. Waste of time and energy and direction. Let them use windows crap, choke and die. Or run a mac. Or whatever. Let them stew in whatever choice they've made for themselves. In the mean time, let's have some fun fucking with them when we have the chance! I'm just sad I didn't think of this first. Besides, CRN is for pedophiles, republicans, and ex-car wash employees. Who the frig reads or writes industry crap rags? You should be busy coding, hacking on stuff, making it better. Not easier. Elegant, not simplistic. Media == distraction, folks. Stop giving 'em page views fer chrissakes, and get back to work ;) Cheers, B -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 04:19:29 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 23:19:29 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista Message-ID: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> bought a ps3 tonight at future shop, but I had some questions regarding its interfacing to my 1080i tv (that doesnt receive 1080p), so they told me i could surf on their computers set up in the computer section to find my answers for the PS3. Well in the puter section they had vista installed. the first thing i noticed is that vista does look way better then XP. in fact it looks a bit better then OSX10.4, but perhaps not as commonly theme'd, but its a far way off a good beryl/compiz xgl set up , but i was told i might not be looking at the highest graphical version of Vista, and I didn't want to spend time to figure it out, i was there to buy a PS3. So the sales man tells me, by the way if your looking at upgrading my home pc to Vista, I might want to think twice, he says Vista is really bad as it , he claims, takes your initial EULA (Acceptance) and will nuke your shit if it doesn't like it (or something to that extent), i was thinking, WOW if every future shop salesman was like that, Bill isn't going to sell to many copies! Anyways one thing stood out really bad in Vista, I have to assume it was the portable it was installed on, nice portable, BUT, I was using IE (on Vista) to get some google results, and I noticed that when i click the mouse into the text boxes to enter my url and search terms, no I-bar appeared, so i didnt think much of it at first, because I wanted to get my answers about the PS3, but once i got my answers (or lack of), i tooled with Vista, and all though in some places i got a I-bar, no mater what i did in the IE browser in the URL and google search text box, no I-bar occured ... i could type and cursor in the text box, but no I-bar, which is freaky because i dont try to type something into a text box until i see my I-bar flashing. Holy crap thats one serious freaking bug, I am assuming its a driver issue between the portable and Vista, but still, this shocked me. I don't think futureshop put on any other software to screw with something so basic?, and unless they installed some google tool bar stuff that broke I-bars in text entry boxes?? anyways if I was looking to by a portable with Vista (Assuming I know nothing about the existence of Linux, or OSX), I could hardly have been happy taking that particular combination home. To evaluate the Debian NTFS new Linux install ability off the standard MS boot sequence (i.e. install linux in a image on a NTFS, and boot into it off of the MS boot chain), I get to tool with Vista at a later date to make sure Debian can do that on Vista, so I will be force to play with Vista, but at least I can better eval it. In our company , we wanted someone else to eval Vista as well, so we oferred them a free copy to the obviously lucky person that volunteered first. They are all XP users by the way, I am the only Linux user (but most of our none management staff use a linux boot DVD environemnt). So anyways not one managment (or greater) level employee wanted the free Vista copy, they simply are not going to try it .... so we have to buy a new machine and install it and give it out, and for that everyone put up their hands, but to just get a free copy of Vista and install it over your XP, no one was going to have any of that. I thought all the negative stuff i was hearing about Vista, was overhype by the linux community (hate Bills shit no matter what), but so far I am actually surprised just how scared the real XP users (i work with) are of it. On another interesting note, a company that provides us with our Telephony equipment (handles about 400 lines or so at this time), and does IVR, VOIP, etc, it was originally sold for the Win32 and Sun platforms. (ours runs on about 30 Billy servers) The product maker just told us that ..... We'll be focusing mostly on the Linux platform now, the win32 based system will not be the way to expand in the (ours/their) future. So here I am , the IT guy , outfit our shop with all Linux, but I don't have any authority over the Telephony side (else they would be linux based), and now they have been told their platform will eventually be changing over to Linux ... you can imagine just how sorry I feel for that department ... NOT! ahhh life is good! -tl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 04:38:37 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 23:38:37 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <1170735569.4405.760.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 11:19:29PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: >Anyways one thing stood out really bad in Vista, >I have to assume it was the portable it was installed on, nice portable, >BUT, I was using IE (on Vista) to get some google results, and I noticed >that when i click the mouse into the text boxes to enter my url and >search terms, no I-bar appeared, so i didnt think much of it at first, >because I wanted to get my answers about the PS3, but once i got my >answers (or lack of), i tooled with Vista, and all though in some places >i got a I-bar, no mater what i did in the IE browser in the URL and >google search text box, no I-bar occured ... i could type and cursor in >the text box, but no I-bar, which is freaky because i dont try to type >something into a text box until i see my I-bar flashing. >Holy crap thats one serious freaking bug, >I am assuming its a driver issue between the portable and Vista, but >still, >this shocked me. I don't think futureshop put on any other software to This is a bug, but not a driver bug - a design team bug. The default insert cursor is set to a single pixel wide, and with screen hinting that means that it disappears for some displays. This is a "top 10" migration question for most users, and you can set the insert cursor arbitrarily wide, if you know where to look. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 04:41:02 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 23:41:02 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <1170735569.4405.760.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <45C806DE.6020602@telly.org> ted leslie wrote: > So the sales man tells me, by the way if your looking at upgrading my > home pc to Vista, I might want to think twice, he says Vista is > really bad as it , he claims, takes your initial EULA (Acceptance) and > will nuke your shit if it doesn't like it (or something to that extent), > i was thinking, WOW if every future shop salesman was like that, Bill > isn't going to sell to many copies! > Thanks for the report, Ted. That does sound bad. I've been reading that they're not going to be selling too many upgrades anytime soon (especially because of the HW requirements), but it will become the new pre-install on new PCs. Hmm. Maybe the Linux crowd just needs to keep on its path, produce top-notch stuff, and eventually MS will just bully people towards us. I've mentioned that so far I don't see non-IT folks seeing a compelling reason to install Linux. Maybe in Vista MS will provide Linux with the compelling reason (DRM nastiness), without the needing to do anything different. BTW, what _is_ a "good beryl/compiz xgl set up"? I know the thing is now relatively easy to install, are there any good default configurations? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From brad-+D6Uf2+aGuUGMZLEs5zN4UEOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 04:45:54 2007 From: brad-+D6Uf2+aGuUGMZLEs5zN4UEOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (Brad Harrison) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 23:45:54 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <45C8013B.4070309-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <705687.44322.qm@web61315.mail.yahoo.com> <45C8013B.4070309@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200702052345.54172.brad@harrisonpowered.com> graffiti in our subways, linux style? http://www.loconet.ca/?p=64 On Monday 05 February 2007 11:16 pm, Byron Sonne wrote: > Screw the douches that are afraid of harmful advocacy. Since when was > linux about playing nice with the main stream or trying to land more > sheeple converts? You've lost yer way brethren. > > Ubuntu == meh. Any distro designed to lure mom & pop == meh. > > You ever notice the world we live in now? Folks are lost, dudes & > dudettes, and we're not going to get them back. Don't bother. Waste of > time and energy and direction. Let them use windows crap, choke and die. > Or run a mac. Or whatever. > > Let them stew in whatever choice they've made for themselves. > > In the mean time, let's have some fun fucking with them when we have the > chance! I'm just sad I didn't think of this first. > > Besides, CRN is for pedophiles, republicans, and ex-car wash employees. > Who the frig reads or writes industry crap rags? You should be busy > coding, hacking on stuff, making it better. Not easier. Elegant, not > simplistic. Media == distraction, folks. Stop giving 'em page views fer > chrissakes, and get back to work ;) > > Cheers, > B > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Brad Harrison www.harrisonpowered.com Mississauga, Ontario, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 06:06:34 2007 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 01:06:34 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <20070205162033.06255b65-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C772C4.2090200@telly.org> <45C77F3F.8090505@utoronto.ca> <45C79692.9050206@yahoo.ca> <20070205162033.06255b65@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <45C81AEA.4040007@yahoo.ca> JoeHill wrote: > On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 15:41:54 -0500 > Stephen Allen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > >> I'm not really sure that Geeks are the best suited for this type of >> work. > > Yes, Linus was an unmitigated failure for over a decade until the genuises with > the demographics charts stepped in. Who said it was? If one wants it to become popular in the mainstream, then one has to think like a businessman and understand how to market effectively. I'm not saying it should necessarily be marketed to the mainstream, but that's neither here or there in terms of this discussion. >> There generally is a reason why Marketing is separate from >> Engineering. So obviously I don't think LUGs are good for this either. ;) > > Don't call us, we'll call you ;-) You're quite a wit Joe. ;) >> It really has nothing to do with a perceived "generation gap", more in >> knowing how to sell to your customer. > > Oh, yeah, Marketing has done such wonders for the progress of human > civilization. Just look at all the great things we've accomplished with the > trillions we've spent on advertising, everything from eating disorders and > smoking to the success of Britney Spears and Fox News. Yeeha! I hope you never are in a position that you have to sell anything Joe, because you'll be eating your words. LOL __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 08:28:29 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 03:28:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <45C81AEA.4040007-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C772C4.2090200@telly.org> <45C77F3F.8090505@utoronto.ca> <45C79692.9050206@yahoo.ca> <20070205162033.06255b65@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45C81AEA.4040007@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Feb 2007, Stephen Allen wrote: > JoeHill wrote: >> On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 15:41:54 -0500 >> Stephen Allen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: >> >>> I'm not really sure that Geeks are the best suited for this type of >>> work. >> >> Yes, Linus was an unmitigated failure for over a decade until the genuises with >> the demographics charts stepped in. > > Who said it was? > > If one wants it to become popular in the mainstream, then one has to > think like a businessman and understand how to market effectively. Linux is well on the way to becoming (if it isn't already) without it. > I'm not saying it should necessarily be marketed to the mainstream, but > that's neither here or there in terms of this discussion. Then what's your point? -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 10:21:04 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 05:21:04 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <45C81AEA.4040007-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C772C4.2090200@telly.org> <45C77F3F.8090505@utoronto.ca> <45C79692.9050206@yahoo.ca> <20070205162033.06255b65@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45C81AEA.4040007@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <20070206052104.7b17e5c2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 01:06:34 -0500 Stephen Allen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > I hope you never are in a position that you have to sell anything Joe, Me too. Especially my soul :-) The assumption that 'one has to think like a businessman' is just that, an assumption. A very very old and unsuccessful assumption. Not to mention sickeningly racist and sexist, but that's for another forum. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Fry: Mmm, the gristle in a blanket isn't half bad. Bender: And try one of these popsicle sticks. They've absorbed quite a bit of flavor. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 10:35:15 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 05:35:15 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <20070206052104.7b17e5c2-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C772C4.2090200@telly.org> <45C77F3F.8090505@utoronto.ca> <45C79692.9050206@yahoo.ca> <20070205162033.06255b65@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45C81AEA.4040007@yahoo.ca> <20070206052104.7b17e5c2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20070206053515.625c550e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Tue, 6 Feb 2007 05:21:04 -0500 JoeHill got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Stephen Allen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > > I hope you never are in a position that you have to sell anything Joe, > > Me too. Especially my soul :-) > > The assumption that 'one has to think like a businessman' is just that, an > assumption. A very very old and unsuccessful assumption. > > Not to mention sickeningly racist and sexist, but that's for another forum. ...and before you throw the 'here come the PC police' bandwagon into high gear, no, saying 'businesspeople' won't change anything. I'm not *that* simple ;-) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: I ain't your loverboy Flexo, the guy you love so much. You even love anybody pretending to be him! Angleyne: Well, maybe I love you so much I love you no matter who you're pretending to be. Bender: Oh, how I wish I could believe or understand that. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 10:32:30 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 05:32:30 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <45C8013B.4070309-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <705687.44322.qm@web61315.mail.yahoo.com> <45C8013B.4070309@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070206053230.1c0193d1@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 23:16:59 -0500 Byron Sonne got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Screw the douches that are afraid of harmful advocacy. Since when was > linux about playing nice with the main stream or trying to land more > sheeple converts? You've lost yer way brethren. > > Ubuntu == meh. Any distro designed to lure mom & pop == meh. > > You ever notice the world we live in now? Folks are lost, dudes & > dudettes, and we're not going to get them back. Don't bother. Waste of > time and energy and direction. Let them use windows crap, choke and die. > Or run a mac. Or whatever. > > Let them stew in whatever choice they've made for themselves. > > In the mean time, let's have some fun fucking with them when we have the > chance! I'm just sad I didn't think of this first. > > Besides, CRN is for pedophiles, republicans, and ex-car wash employees. > Who the frig reads or writes industry crap rags? You should be busy > coding, hacking on stuff, making it better. Not easier. Elegant, not > simplistic. Media == distraction, folks. Stop giving 'em page views fer > chrissakes, and get back to work ;) Whoa. Not exactly Ghandi, but definitely a step in the right direction. Love it. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender to Zoidberg: "You're looking less nuts, crabby." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 12:23:01 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 15:23:01 +0300 Subject: Hardware indentification through a ssh session In-Reply-To: <20070205163236.GT7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070205163236.GT7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Thanks dudes and dudets William On 05/02/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 01:50:26PM +0300, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > > Lets say you have a dell boxs somewhere remote. Is there a way one can > tell > > the hardware model of the equipments other than physically being > there? I > > have pocked around /proc and dmesg and all I see are generic stuff. I am > > looking for stuff like serial number and other details needed for > hardware > > inventory. > > Advice and thanks in advance > > You could try 'dmidecode'. That might give it to you. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 14:00:07 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 09:00:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <45C806DE.6020602-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45C806DE.6020602@telly.org> Message-ID: <425108.35063.qm@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I've mentioned that so far I don't see non-IT folks > seeing a compelling > reason to install Linux. Maybe in Vista MS will > provide Linux with the > compelling reason (DRM nastiness), without the > needing to do anything > different. Well, some IT folks don't see a need to install Linux. I know one local IT guru who thinks that Linux isn't reliable enough for him. Said guru's home machines are an odd collection of Sun, SGI and PCs running FreeBSD... To each their own, at least said guru knows enough to RUN away from MS Windows... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 14:22:34 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 09:22:34 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <20070206043837.GA535-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 11:38:37PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > This is a bug, but not a driver bug - a design team bug. The default > insert cursor is set to a single pixel wide, and with screen hinting that > means that it disappears for some displays. This is a "top 10" migration > question for most users, and you can set the insert cursor arbitrarily > wide, if you know where to look. Could it be someone has an LCD screen set to the wrong resolution and the scaling is making such small things disappear? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 15:03:26 2007 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 10:03:26 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C772C4.2090200@telly.org> <45C77F3F.8090505@utoronto.ca> <45C79692.9050206@yahoo.ca> <20070205162033.06255b65@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45C81AEA.4040007@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <45C898BE.5010102@yahoo.ca> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> I'm not saying it should necessarily be marketed to the mainstream, but >> that's neither here or there in terms of this discussion. > > Then what's your point? That if one is going to market, do it right, and know whom your market is. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 15:10:22 2007 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 10:10:22 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <20070206052104.7b17e5c2-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C772C4.2090200@telly.org> <45C77F3F.8090505@utoronto.ca> <45C79692.9050206@yahoo.ca> <20070205162033.06255b65@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45C81AEA.4040007@yahoo.ca> <20070206052104.7b17e5c2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <45C89A5E.5080100@yahoo.ca> JoeHill wrote: > On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 01:06:34 -0500 > Stephen Allen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > >> I hope you never are in a position that you have to sell anything Joe, > > Me too. Especially my soul :-) LOL > The assumption that 'one has to think like a businessman' is just that, an > assumption. A very very old and unsuccessful assumption. OK Think like an entrepreneur who thinks like a businessman. > Not to mention sickeningly racist and sexist, but that's for another forum. Well, if that's what you bring to the table, good luck convincing most people that Linux is a viable option. They're sure to respect your opinion. You might consider that extremes of opinion tends to frighten people. Not something you wish to do when you're attempting to make a point vis-a-vis marketing anything, whether it be a trinket or a computer operating system. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 15:18:11 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 10:18:11 -0500 Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: <20070205034836.21017ca5-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <45C3725B.6010507@telly.org> <200702021331.29246.mggagne@salmar.com> <45C3CA9F.3050005@telly.org> <45C3FCE8.9030804@utoronto.ca> <45C6B269.60907@telly.org> <20070205034836.21017ca5@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <1f13df280702060718g6b6f67f6ic4bb7e830c5e1da7@mail.gmail.com> It seems to me that the original argument against this event revolved around the discussion of vandalism on the Ubuntu mailing list. This didn't occur, so I'm not sure I see why this remains a big issue. Was the event successful? They handed out a lot of CDs by the sound of it, and personally I think this is a good thing: the distinction between people voluntarily taking CDs and receiving AOL-like mass mailings is a pretty big one. And they talked to people - that's always good. Is this the "right" method? It wasn't perfect, but they went out and showed a hell of a lot of enthusiasm, and that's a good thing. As for the Debian-Ubuntu debate ... I'm also an Ubuntu user. I used Debian for a couple years, and continue to use it on a couple other systems. They're both excellent. Ubuntu puts a user-friendly face on an occasionally difficult-to-use but very good distro. Debian is upset that Ubuntu has hijacked all their hard work. But the work of both is under the GPL, anyone can borrow their work wholesale. It's something you need to accept when you sign on to the GPL. Someone may yet "hijack" Ubuntu - including Debian, who could look at borrowing any of the good stuff Ubuntu has done if they weren't so spitting mad at them in the first place. Every community has fringe members who make wild suggestions and occasionally do stupid things. From an initial bad idea, someone got out there and talked to a bunch of Windows users about Linux, and even gave them a way to install it. Let's call this a win. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 15:20:20 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 10:20:20 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <20070206142234.GV7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 09:22:34AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 11:38:37PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> This is a bug, but not a driver bug - a design team bug. The default >> insert cursor is set to a single pixel wide, and with screen hinting that >> means that it disappears for some displays. This is a "top 10" migration >> question for most users, and you can set the insert cursor arbitrarily >> wide, if you know where to look. > >Could it be someone has an LCD screen set to the wrong resolution and >the scaling is making such small things disappear? Yes, I believe that is it exactly. I'm perfectly happy to have Vista drive people to (drink) Linux, but I think this one is just an example of why UI decisions are hard - I see similar wrong-headedness in the major desktops for Linux too. -- yours, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 15:34:59 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 10:34:59 -0500 Subject: Trouble within screen Message-ID: <20070206153458.GB640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I'm running a multi-headed screen session on my home machine. I am logged into my home machine via ssh, and I have attached to my screen session. So far so good. I launch the screen session automatically from a terminal which I launch via .xinitrc. I'm trying to give all the relevant info here. Everything seems to be fine, until I launch vim (not gvim - this is for things like email composition in mutt). Once I do that, I see the following errors: Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server Xlib: Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 key X is running on my home machine, but I am not logged in - another user is the one running X on the physical box. I'm just running off my screen session. Is there a way to a) make this error go away or b) is it that screen thinks it should be in a terminal emulator, and I should launch my screen session from the console? Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks. -- yours, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 16:16:12 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 11:16:12 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <45C89A5E.5080100-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C772C4.2090200@telly.org> <45C77F3F.8090505@utoronto.ca> <45C79692.9050206@yahoo.ca> <20070205162033.06255b65@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45C81AEA.4040007@yahoo.ca> <20070206052104.7b17e5c2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45C89A5E.5080100@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <20070206111612.55e1ffcc@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 10:10:22 -0500 Stephen Allen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > JoeHill wrote: > > On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 01:06:34 -0500 > > Stephen Allen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > > >> I hope you never are in a position that you have to sell anything Joe, > > > > Me too. Especially my soul :-) > > LOL > > > The assumption that 'one has to think like a businessman' is just that, an > > assumption. A very very old and unsuccessful assumption. > > OK Think like an entrepreneur who thinks like a businessman. > > > Not to mention sickeningly racist and sexist, but that's for another > > forum. > > Well, if that's what you bring to the table, good luck convincing most > people that Linux is a viable option. They're sure to respect your opinion. > > You might consider that extremes of opinion tends to frighten people. > Not something you wish to do when you're attempting to make a point > vis-a-vis marketing anything, whether it be a trinket or a computer > operating system. Again, you're assuming I want to 'market' anything at all; I don't. I'm not out to convince anyone, other than to show them, perhaps if only by my own example, what I'm committed to. If they like it, great. If they don't, well, like they say, you can't change the world, only yourself. I believe this has been the problem with this discussion from the beginning, and what has led to the repetitiveness of the points made on both sides: we're talking about two different things here. Marketing, really, is about brainwashing. One is presenting a certain point of view or process or, god forbid, 'product' (bleh) and using a spin to convince people of the value of...whatever you got. As soon as you begin to believe that your choice is better than any other, you've lost. You're just 'doing your job', and nothing else. It ceases to really matter at some point whether you even believe what you're saying, because you're committed. That's fine for selling 'widgets', it's a complete disaster for promoting change. Ask all the greats, . As far as Linux goes, like I say, as soon as it becomes primarily a 'product', we're dead. It'll be pigeonholed, packaged, and crippled, just like all the others. It certainly will cease to be any part of real social change. Of course, an operating system is not, hell *should not*, be the vanguard of social change, which is what I was getting at with the racism bit. Most of the world does not give a rat's ass about anything to do with computing, they're more concerned with their next bloody meal. To assume anything different is arrogance of the highest order. However, I can tell you for sure that a monopolistic behemoth that dictates the way in which computing is used will forever hobble any effort in regards to social change, and free software, whether Linux continues to be a part of that 'movement' or not, is a good start at making it impossible for cretins like Gates to profit from people's misery forever, as they certainly intend to do, whether consciously or not. Back to the point at hand: the Ice House event, to my mind, symbolizes what is the important part about free software and social change: the people who made the effort to take part were not there to beat anything into anyone's skull, and from what I know, had no interest in changing anyone's mind. Their goal was simply to show others what they were passionate about, and to make their own choices a public thing. Again, if anyone saw that and went 'cool, gotta *check that out*', and that leads to someone at some point making a change in how they relate to computing, faaaantastic, and from the description I've read, that's certainly what happened. To hell with the statistics, one or two is enough, even geeks have friends ;-) Leave the marketing to IBM and Novell. As far as *really* changing people's minds, that will only really happen when they actually see that they have a choice, and seeing other people like them having a choice is the most important step in that direction. Some slick advert has about the same staying power as an impotent shrew. Anyway, back to my snide one-liners, that was f'n tiring and probably made no damn sense. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Hermes to Bender: "What did you get her, you mushy gizmo?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 16:28:03 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 11:28:03 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <45C89A5E.5080100-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C772C4.2090200@telly.org> <45C77F3F.8090505@utoronto.ca> <45C79692.9050206@yahoo.ca> <20070205162033.06255b65@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45C81AEA.4040007@yahoo.ca> <20070206052104.7b17e5c2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45C89A5E.5080100@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <20070206112803.106fca33@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 10:10:22 -0500 Stephen Allen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > JoeHill wrote: > > On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 01:06:34 -0500 > > Stephen Allen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > > >> I hope you never are in a position that you have to sell anything Joe, > > > > Me too. Especially my soul :-) > > LOL > > > The assumption that 'one has to think like a businessman' is just that, an > > assumption. A very very old and unsuccessful assumption. > > OK Think like an entrepreneur who thinks like a businessman. Keep in mind, in all this, that I harbour no ill will (or at least know that I should not) toward marketing professionals, businessmen, or entrepeneurs. My definition of what those things mean is in no way representative of how I view the people who use those titles, or whatever. Everyone needs to do something. Everyone has a purpose...even if it's as a good source of protein ;-) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "Hey, sexy mama. Wanna kill all the humans?" -Bender -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 16:37:25 2007 From: mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Marcel Gagne) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 11:37:25 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <45C7CBEF.7040508-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <1170716205.4405.717.camel@stan64.site> <45C7CBEF.7040508@telly.org> Message-ID: <200702061137.26092.mggagne@salmar.com> Hello all, Wow, I'm amazed that this discussion is still going strong. Obviously a topic that is near and dear to some. On February 5, 2007 07:29:35 pm Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > I personally find it FAR more effective to ease IT-phobic people into > open source by introducing them to OpenOffice, Firefox and Thunderbird > (and maybe Gimp) for Windows. Those projects, unlike Linux, offer > compelling reasons for a typical Windows user to install (ie, no-cost > office suite and a browser with popup blockers) Once they've had some > time with these apps, one can then gently teach how the same benefits > that open source brings to office suites and net clients can be had at > the OS level -- but it's still a hard sell, and most will be satisfied > with FOSS applications on Windows. I call those "transitional applications" and I've written/talked a fair bit on this subject -- in fact, my latest book, "Moving to Free Software" covers free software alternatives under *GASP* Windows. Evan has a very good point here, I believe. It's a particularly important point for those who don't want to equate Free Software and Linux as one and the same. The Windows using crowd gets the benefit of free software and, when the time comes and they are ready to look at a Linux desktop, they won't find it totally alien. And marketing, by the way, isn't evil. Nor is marketing == selling. Marketing is, at its core, the process of finding out what the people want and giving it to them. Or, to put it in FOSS terms, finding out what their itch is, and providing them with the tools to scratch it. Take care out there. -- Marcel (Writer and Free Thinker at Large) Gagn? Note: This massagee wos nat speel or gramer-checkered. Mandatory home page reference - http://www.marcelgagne.com/ Author of the "Moving to Linux" series of books and the all new, "Moving to Free Software" Join the WFTL-LUG : http://www.marcelgagne.com/wftllugform.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 17:12:57 2007 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 12:12:57 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <20070206152020.GA640-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I thought I would provide my own impressions on Vista, in line with the parent. I'm running it in a virtual machine on my MacBook Pro (Core 2 Duo 2.3GHz). Performance is pretty good, but I wanted to address the whole "look and feel" thing that's been commented upon. As a Mac OS X user, you'll already know that I appreciate beauty and ease of use in an operating system. So you'll know where I'm coming from when I say that the whole Beryl/Compiz/XGL nexus holds little for me. It's eye candy without the matching ease of use. It doesn't functionally change the way you use a KDE/Gnome desktop. Ditto for Vista. There's a fresh coat of paint on it, but it works fundamentally the same as Windows XP. Once you use it you'll find there's little to no learning curve. They talk about revolution, but the new OS is merely evolutionary. Don't misread me: there's nothing terribly wrong with that. But I get my hackles up when people talk about slick-looking interfaces and ignore the usability. In this regard, I've actually found Vista to be a step down in some instances. I believe this is a great opportunity for open source operating systems to step up; but they should play the hand of "better, more reliable computing experience", rather than eye candy. Cheers, Aaron. On 2/6/07, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 09:22:34AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 11:38:37PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > >> This is a bug, but not a driver bug - a design team bug. The default > >> insert cursor is set to a single pixel wide, and with screen hinting that > >> means that it disappears for some displays. This is a "top 10" migration > >> question for most users, and you can set the insert cursor arbitrarily > >> wide, if you know where to look. > > > >Could it be someone has an LCD screen set to the wrong resolution and > >the scaling is making such small things disappear? > > Yes, I believe that is it exactly. I'm perfectly happy to have Vista > drive people to (drink) Linux, but I think this one is just an example > of why UI decisions are hard - I see similar wrong-headedness in the > major desktops for Linux too. > -- > > yours, > > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 17:40:07 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 12:40:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <20070206152020.GA640-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Feb 2007, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Yes, I believe that is it exactly. I'm perfectly happy to have Vista > drive people to (drink) Linux, but I think this one is just an example > of why UI decisions are hard - I see similar wrong-headedness in the > major desktops for Linux too. I think you are right but it shows some of the power of the approach of X really (and also the power of OSS). X (and as a result Linux) offers a huge variety of GUIs for users. Thus if one finds brain-dead behaviour in KDE or Gnome (or both) there are still plenty of options. If one finds brain-dead behaviour in the MS-Vista GUI how many alternatives are available? Few or none. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 17:42:23 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 12:42:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: <1f13df280702060718g6b6f67f6ic4bb7e830c5e1da7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <45C3725B.6010507@telly.org> <200702021331.29246.mggagne@salmar.com> <45C3CA9F.3050005@telly.org> <45C3FCE8.9030804@utoronto.ca> <45C6B269.60907@telly.org> <20070205034836.21017ca5@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1f13df280702060718g6b6f67f6ic4bb7e830c5e1da7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Feb 2007, Giles Orr wrote: ... > As for the Debian-Ubuntu debate ... I'm also an Ubuntu user. I used > Debian for a couple years, and continue to use it on a couple other > systems. They're both excellent. Ubuntu puts a user-friendly face on > an occasionally difficult-to-use but very good distro. Debian is > upset that Ubuntu has hijacked all their hard work. But the work of > both is under the GPL, anyone can borrow their work wholesale. It's > something you need to accept when you sign on to the GPL. Someone may > yet "hijack" Ubuntu They already have; gNewSense, , is a distro based on Ubuntu with all non-free components removed. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 17:45:57 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 12:45:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <45C806DE.6020602-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <45C806DE.6020602@telly.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Feb 2007, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I've mentioned that so far I don't see non-IT folks seeing a compelling > reason to install Linux. Maybe in Vista MS will provide Linux with the > compelling reason (DRM nastiness), without the needing to do anything > different. Over the last few years I've heard many non-IT people level the types of criticism at MS that only a hardcore OSS geek would have done 10 years ago. Many "average users" have become disgruntled and have been looking for alternatives. I expect this trend to accerate with DRM as the true ramifications become apparent. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 17:49:32 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 12:49:32 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1170784172.8929.21.camel@stan64.site> On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 12:12 -0500, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi all, > I thought I would provide my own impressions on Vista, in line with the parent. > > I'm running it in a virtual machine on my MacBook Pro (Core 2 Duo > 2.3GHz). Performance is pretty good, but I wanted to address the whole > "look and feel" thing that's been commented upon. As a Mac OS X user, > you'll already know that I appreciate beauty and ease of use in an > operating system. So you'll know where I'm coming from when I say that > the whole Beryl/Compiz/XGL nexus holds little for me. It's eye candy I don't know if it is a part of a plug in to beryl, but they have that Mac like bottom panel , animate/zoom thing. I have a Mac igloo running 10.4, and I got it 1.5 years ago, this was before compiz and fluendo,etc. So when it came to itunes (and online music purchases, I did really think it was preferable to linux) But there are two things that I think are brain dead on a Mac, 1) why is every apps tool bar on the very top of the screen, I have been an apple user since about 1981, and certainly when i got my first 128MB Mac, with only running a few apps, and a small screen, having a common top pull down menu panel was OK. Fast forward to this century, and people have 20-30 apps/windows open, and i don't want to be going to the top of the screen for my menus all the time. 2) on the alt tab'ing on a Mac, when you land on a "shrunk" app, like in linux dt's it should revert out of "shrunk" state. I mean what was apple thinking, you are going to alt tab to a app, release on it, and _not_ want to use it? Now with compiz/beryl, the transparent windows can be helpful, i.e. make a top window slightly transparent to see a IM messages underneath. The 3D cube rocks , now you could think of it as just a animated V-desktop switcher, but some time it is cool to see something on one face of the cube and referencing something else on another adjoining face. The rainy desktop, yeah i can't see to much of a real use for that, perhaps start rain when you get a ICQ/email might be nice, one could argue it doesnt then take a permanent flagging spot up on your desktop. Wobbly windows, the only benefit i know of that is that they want to (if not already) tie the responsiveness of the app to its ability to wobble, thus allowing for a clue into perhaps how that one app has been loaded, or run away. I think Beryl/compiz/xgl are a great initial step to bringing about a whole new platform to make some advancements in DT usability. My igloo is on the selling block now, my wife who up until recently used windows, when she uses the mac, she thinks its UI is f'd up - but thats due to years of win32 mind rot. Me as a power user, the mac UI is now just to much of a hand cuff, and its just getting way to far behind linux in technology. So for the first time in 27 years, i am about to become apple-less, and for the first time in about 22 years Mac-less. Actually i had a apple][, Apple ///, various lisa'a, mac 128, mac 512, fat mac, mac se, ... igloo. And i can't say I am going to miss it. But , if i ever get the need again, I think you can install the Intel-Mac OS now in a VM on linux, or so i heard, and i am sure this will become even more doable in the future. But unless Jobs gets his thumb outta his ass, I just see the Mac slipping farther and farther behind with respect to usability as compared to a good linux desktop. -tl > without the matching ease of use. It doesn't functionally change the > way you use a KDE/Gnome desktop. > > Ditto for Vista. There's a fresh coat of paint on it, but it works > fundamentally the same as Windows XP. Once you use it you'll find > there's little to no learning curve. They talk about revolution, but > the new OS is merely evolutionary. Don't misread me: there's nothing > terribly wrong with that. But I get my hackles up when people talk > about slick-looking interfaces and ignore the usability. In this > regard, I've actually found Vista to be a step down in some instances. > > I believe this is a great opportunity for open source operating > systems to step up; but they should play the hand of "better, more > reliable computing experience", rather than eye candy. > > Cheers, > Aaron. > > On 2/6/07, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 09:22:34AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > >On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 11:38:37PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > > >> This is a bug, but not a driver bug - a design team bug. The default > > >> insert cursor is set to a single pixel wide, and with screen hinting that > > >> means that it disappears for some displays. This is a "top 10" migration > > >> question for most users, and you can set the insert cursor arbitrarily > > >> wide, if you know where to look. > > > > > >Could it be someone has an LCD screen set to the wrong resolution and > > >the scaling is making such small things disappear? > > > > Yes, I believe that is it exactly. I'm perfectly happy to have Vista > > drive people to (drink) Linux, but I think this one is just an example > > of why UI decisions are hard - I see similar wrong-headedness in the > > major desktops for Linux too. > > -- > > > > yours, > > > > William > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 18:23:02 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 13:23:02 -0500 Subject: Trouble within screen In-Reply-To: <20070206153458.GB640-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070206153458.GB640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070206182302.GW7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 10:34:59AM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I'm running a multi-headed screen session on my home machine. I am > logged into my home machine via ssh, and I have attached to my screen > session. So far so good. > > I launch the screen session automatically from a terminal which I launch > via .xinitrc. I'm trying to give all the relevant info here. > > Everything seems to be fine, until I launch vim (not gvim - this is for > things like email composition in mutt). Once I do that, I see the > following errors: > > Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server > Xlib: Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 key > > X is running on my home machine, but I am not logged in - another user > is the one running X on the physical box. I'm just running off my > screen session. Did you start screen while running X, then detach, and come back later and attach to screen without X running? In that case you would still have the DISPLAY variable set inside screen since it was present when you created the screen session. vim likes to set xterm title bars to useful information, which may need X access, so perhaps when it sees a DISPLAY variable set, it tries to access X and fails since it is no longer a valid DISPLAY to talk to. > Is there a way to a) make this error go away or b) is it that screen > thinks it should be in a terminal emulator, and I should launch my > screen session from the console? > > Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks. Are you using su to change to another user inside X? If so try using su - username instead, so that you don't carry over the original users environment, since most of it isn't valid for the other user anyhow. If DISPLAY isn't set in the environment, then nothing will try to use it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 18:29:03 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 13:29:03 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <1170784172.8929.21.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> <1170784172.8929.21.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <20070206182902.GX7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 12:49:32PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > I don't know if it is a part of a plug in to beryl, but they have that > Mac like bottom panel , animate/zoom thing. > > I have a Mac igloo running 10.4, and I got it 1.5 years ago, > this was before compiz and fluendo,etc. So when it came to itunes > (and online music purchases, I did really think it was preferable to > linux) > But there are two things that I think are brain dead on a Mac, > 1) why is every apps tool bar on the very top of the screen, > I have been an apple user since about 1981, and certainly when i got my > first 128MB Mac, with only running a few apps, and a small screen, > having a common top pull down menu panel was OK. > Fast forward to this century, and people have 20-30 apps/windows open, > and i don't want to be going to the top of the screen for my menus all > the time. Having the menus in a consistent place, where moving the mouse to the top of the screen (where amazingly it conviniently stops by itself) hits the menu is actually a very good idea for a user interface. Microsoft messed it up, after the Mac and the Amiga had already done it the better way. Having the menu in one place also saves screen space, which there is never enough of. Microsoft's new solution is to make the menus disappear until you hit alt or point to the right part of the window (wherever that is), which is probably a bad idea. People don't use things they can't see or don't know where is. The amiga was pretty clever in that the status bar was also the menu bar as soon as you hit the right mouse button (which is the button used for menus on the amiga). Most things since unfortunately have just done it the microsoft way. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 18:54:17 2007 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 13:54:17 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <1170784172.8929.21.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> <1170784172.8929.21.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <4386c5b20702061054s327fc830n7685a02e18d5bdff@mail.gmail.com> Yikes, This is the last place to start a flame ware, but hey, there's good reasoning for some of those brain dead features you speak of: > But there are two things that I think are brain dead on a Mac, > 1) why is every apps tool bar on the very top of the screen, > I have been an apple user since about 1981, and certainly when i got my > first 128MB Mac, with only running a few apps, and a small screen, > having a common top pull down menu panel was OK. > Fast forward to this century, and people have 20-30 apps/windows open, > and i don't want to be going to the top of the screen for my menus all > the time. There's a couple answers to that one. The best is something called "Fitt's Law" which talks about the ease of acquiring a target with your mouse much easier when it's at the hard stop on the sides and corners of a screen. This is a feature, not a bug. Even taking that into account, the proliferation of keyboard shortcuts tends to invalidate the mousework -- when you use an app long enough you tend to not use the menus much. Ubuntu realizes this to a certain extent anyway: placing their system-wide menu in the always-at-the-top position. > 2) on the alt tab'ing on a Mac, when you land on a "shrunk" > app, like in linux dt's it should revert out of "shrunk" state. > I mean what was apple thinking, you are going to alt tab to a app, > release on it, and _not_ want to use it? The very question is a funny one because if you've been using a Mac for this long, then you should know, you don't shrink apps, you shrink windows. So definitely, if you want to shrink a window to the Dock, and you switch back to the app, it'll stay in the Dock. You can then create new windows from the app. It's a partcularly Mac phenomenon, actually, and it throws off Windows users all the time. Linux users too. > But unless Jobs gets his > thumb outta his ass, I just see the Mac slipping farther and farther > behind with respect to usability as compared to a good linux desktop. There's "good" again. others have asked what you mean by this; I'd like to know as well. I think Apple has provided some great, innovative user interface features, like system-wide instant search, and Expos? to make sense of all those open windows. Suffice to say your experience is your own, and you need to make the call on your platform that makes the most sense for you. That's all any of us can do. :-) Cheers, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 18:56:08 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 13:56:08 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <20070206182902.GX7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> <1170784172.8929.21.camel@stan64.site> <20070206182902.GX7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1170788168.8929.31.camel@stan64.site> When i a was doing my Masters of Math at waterloo, i took a grad course in UI, from Bill Cowan, i wonder if he is still there? you're there is see, name ring a bell? he was an excellent prof. he is probably retired by now. Anyways one of the things we did, is do UI tests, and count number of feet the mouse moved over the source of a sessions. Popup menus at the mouse point on the middle and right click was pretty popular (common back then). Now back in 1991, on a SGI, our mind set at the time was, 1-2 apps, actaully mostly one, and we'd measure mouse movement distances,etc. more from the point of view of tool panels for a app. I can see your point, but then I have been a dual head 3200x1200 desktop'r for some time and redundant (not sure that is even correct) menus on each app, isnt so bad, now with the cheaping on montiors, especially digital paper coming into play in the next year or two, a 400$ 30" 2560x1440 5lbs monitor is going to be relatively soon (its about 1800$ now and 20 lbs), so i would argue the issue of desktop menu saving space will be right out the window at that time, and with such a bigger desktop, you will get bitten even harder with that Mac top menu way of doing things. For a power user, the old original X way of a right or middle click for menus is actually pretty efficient, but boring. -tl On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 13:29 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 12:49:32PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > > I don't know if it is a part of a plug in to beryl, but they have that > > Mac like bottom panel , animate/zoom thing. > > > > I have a Mac igloo running 10.4, and I got it 1.5 years ago, > > this was before compiz and fluendo,etc. So when it came to itunes > > (and online music purchases, I did really think it was preferable to > > linux) > > But there are two things that I think are brain dead on a Mac, > > 1) why is every apps tool bar on the very top of the screen, > > I have been an apple user since about 1981, and certainly when i got my > > first 128MB Mac, with only running a few apps, and a small screen, > > having a common top pull down menu panel was OK. > > Fast forward to this century, and people have 20-30 apps/windows open, > > and i don't want to be going to the top of the screen for my menus all > > the time. > > Having the menus in a consistent place, where moving the mouse to the > top of the screen (where amazingly it conviniently stops by itself) > hits the menu is actually a very good idea for a user interface. > Microsoft messed it up, after the Mac and the Amiga had already done it > the better way. Having the menu in one place also saves screen space, > which there is never enough of. Microsoft's new solution is to make > the menus disappear until you hit alt or point to the right part of the > window (wherever that is), which is probably a bad idea. People don't > use things they can't see or don't know where is. The amiga was pretty > clever in that the status bar was also the menu bar as soon as you hit > the right mouse button (which is the button used for menus on the amiga). > Most things since unfortunately have just done it the microsoft way. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 19:03:49 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:03:49 -0500 Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: References: <45C3725B.6010507@telly.org> <200702021331.29246.mggagne@salmar.com> <45C3CA9F.3050005@telly.org> <45C3FCE8.9030804@utoronto.ca> <45C6B269.60907@telly.org> <20070205034836.21017ca5@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1f13df280702060718g6b6f67f6ic4bb7e830c5e1da7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45C8D115.4040901@telly.org> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > They already have; gNewSense, , is a > distro based on Ubuntu with all non-free components removed. Gee, I always thought that was called Debian. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 19:12:56 2007 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 14:12:56 -0500 Subject: Evan, please tell me you weren't part of this... Message-ID: <92ee967a0702061112h4858aedft965002621786b61e@mail.gmail.com> Now *this* is over the top: :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 19:37:57 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 14:37:57 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <1170788168.8929.31.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> <1170784172.8929.21.camel@stan64.site> <20070206182902.GX7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170788168.8929.31.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <20070206193757.GY7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 01:56:08PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > When i a was doing my Masters of Math at waterloo, > i took a grad course in UI, from Bill Cowan, i wonder if he is still > there? you're there is see, name ring a bell? he was an excellent prof. > he is probably retired by now. I graduated almost 7 years ago. :) > Anyways one of the things we did, is do UI tests, and count number of > feet the mouse moved over the source of a sessions. Popup menus at the > mouse point on the middle and right click was pretty popular (common > back then). Well, interesting thing to test, but on the other hand is that actually a meassure of a better interface? Lots of good keyboard shortcuts could cut that down to essentially nothing. A completely keyboard controlled interface with no mouse at all would win that contest easily. Does that mean it is a better interface? > Now back in 1991, on a SGI, our mind set at the time was, 1-2 apps, > actaully mostly one, and we'd measure mouse movement distances,etc. > more from the point of view of tool panels for a app. Certainly explains the circular popup menus some SGI apps had at the time too. Some people liked them (little mouse movement needed), others hated them (hard to hit quickly). > I can see your point, but then I have been a dual head 3200x1200 > desktop'r for some time and redundant (not sure that is even correct) > menus on each app, isnt so bad, > now with the cheaping on montiors, especially digital paper coming into > play in the next year or two, a 400$ 30" 2560x1440 5lbs monitor is > going to be relatively soon (its about 1800$ now and 20 lbs), so i would > argue the issue of desktop menu saving space will be right out the > window at that time, and with such a bigger desktop, you will get bitten > even harder with that Mac top menu way of doing things. > For a power user, the old original X way of a right or middle click for > menus is actually pretty efficient, but boring. Dell is selling the 30" 2560x1600 for $1399 right now. I still think the right way to make an efficient interface, is keyboard shortcuts. And whoever invented drag-and-drop should be severely punished. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 19:38:31 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 14:38:31 -0500 Subject: David, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: <45C8D115.4040901-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45C3725B.6010507@telly.org> <200702021331.29246.mggagne@salmar.com> <45C3CA9F.3050005@telly.org> <45C3FCE8.9030804@utoronto.ca> <45C6B269.60907@telly.org> <20070205034836.21017ca5@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1f13df280702060718g6b6f67f6ic4bb7e830c5e1da7@mail.gmail.com> <45C8D115.4040901@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070206193831.GZ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 02:03:49PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Gee, I always thought that was called Debian. Some people think debian should drop the 'non-free' section. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 19:40:37 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 14:40:37 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20070206194037.GA7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 02:30:19PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > so my crappy wireless router/printserver (smc barricade 2804wbrp-g) > seems to have definitively died. I am therefore looking for a new > router and a new printserver. this time, though, I want something > that'll last more than 14 months. can anyone make a recommendation, > especially for a printserver? That's where I would expect > incompatibilities to show up. I would also consider upgrading to a > networkable, duplexing printer that has a decent linux driver -- the > brother hl-1440, my current printer, has a bug which wastes a fair > amount of paper. How much are you willing to spend on a printer, and how much do you plan on printing on it? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 19:54:21 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:54:21 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <20070206194037.GA7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <20070206194037.GA7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1170791661.5808.41.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 14:40 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 02:30:19PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > > so my crappy wireless router/printserver (smc barricade 2804wbrp-g) > > seems to have definitively died. I am therefore looking for a new > > router and a new printserver. this time, though, I want something > > that'll last more than 14 months. can anyone make a recommendation, > > especially for a printserver? That's where I would expect > > incompatibilities to show up. I would also consider upgrading to a > > networkable, duplexing printer that has a decent linux driver -- the > > brother hl-1440, my current printer, has a bug which wastes a fair > > amount of paper. > > How much are you willing to spend on a printer, and how much do you plan > on printing on it? > um, not exactly sure on price. $500 seems like the very high end, I suppose, and I'm hoping for somewhat less. We print all our written work on it, as well as a fair number of downloaded scientific articles; I don't know what that comes to, a few thousand pages/month I suppose, not much more than that I hope. matt > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 19:30:19 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:30:19 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations Message-ID: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> Hi, so my crappy wireless router/printserver (smc barricade 2804wbrp-g) seems to have definitively died. I am therefore looking for a new router and a new printserver. this time, though, I want something that'll last more than 14 months. can anyone make a recommendation, especially for a printserver? That's where I would expect incompatibilities to show up. I would also consider upgrading to a networkable, duplexing printer that has a decent linux driver -- the brother hl-1440, my current printer, has a bug which wastes a fair amount of paper. thanks much! matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 20:06:03 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 15:06:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: Why Linux is more secure than Windows Message-ID: <50951.207.188.67.188.1170792363.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> http://blogs.zdnet.com/threatchaos/?p=311 A graphical display of system calls, comparing the two operating systems. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 20:11:19 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 15:11:19 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1170792679.3332.316.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 14:30 -0500, Matt Price wrote: > so my crappy wireless router/printserver (smc barricade 2804wbrp-g) > seems to have definitively died. I am therefore looking for a new > router and a new printserver. this time, though, I want something > that'll last more than 14 months. can anyone make a recommendation, > especially for a printserver? That's where I would expect > incompatibilities to show up. I would also consider upgrading to a > networkable, duplexing printer that has a decent linux driver -- the > brother hl-1440, my current printer, has a bug which wastes a fair > amount of paper. You can't go wrong with a Jet Direct. There a little pricey (~$200) but of all the Jet Directs I've installed I've only had one or two fail. I've used other, cheaper print servers and have always been disappointed. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 20:24:22 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 15:24:22 -0500 Subject: Trouble within screen In-Reply-To: <20070206182302.GW7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070206153458.GB640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206182302.GW7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070206202422.GA632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 01:23:02PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Everything seems to be fine, until I launch vim (not gvim - this is for >> things like email composition in mutt). Once I do that, I see the >> following errors: >> >> Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server >> Xlib: Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 key >Did you start screen while running X, then detach, and come back later >and attach to screen without X running? In that case you would still >have the DISPLAY variable set inside screen since it was present when >you created the screen session. vim likes to set xterm title bars to >useful information, which may need X access, so perhaps when it sees a >DISPLAY variable set, it tries to access X and fails since it is no >longer a valid DISPLAY to talk to. You hit the nail on the head! It was as simple as unsetting the $DISPLAY variable. The only problem was, I didn't know how, so I tried Google "Linux unset display". Heh, it turns out that "unset" is a command :-) Who knew? Thanks a ton. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 21:25:30 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 16:25:30 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20702061054s327fc830n7685a02e18d5bdff-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> <1170784172.8929.21.camel@stan64.site> <4386c5b20702061054s327fc830n7685a02e18d5bdff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1170797130.8929.90.camel@stan64.site> On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 13:54 -0500, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Yikes, > This is the last place to start a flame ware, but hey, there's good > reasoning for some of those brain dead features you speak of: > > > But there are two things that I think are brain dead on a Mac, > > 1) why is every apps tool bar on the very top of the screen, > > I have been an apple user since about 1981, and certainly when i got my > > first 128MB Mac, with only running a few apps, and a small screen, > > having a common top pull down menu panel was OK. > > Fast forward to this century, and people have 20-30 apps/windows open, > > and i don't want to be going to the top of the screen for my menus all > > the time. > > There's a couple answers to that one. The best is something called > "Fitt's Law" which talks about the ease of acquiring a target with > your mouse much easier when it's at the hard stop on the sides and > corners of a screen. This is a feature, not a bug. Even taking that > into account, the proliferation of keyboard shortcuts tends to > invalidate the mousework -- when you use an app long enough you tend > to not use the menus much. Ubuntu realizes this to a certain extent > anyway: placing their system-wide menu in the always-at-the-top > position. Yeah i guess honestly this is where i am in a extremely small minority, I choose to adopt a thumb touchpad keyboard many years ago, i mean to me, i hate to say it, if you have to move your hands off the touch typing position and grab a mouse, you immediately get invalidated as a power user. People some times sit down at my desk and want to use my computer to show me something and usually state the same thing, how can you use this!?, in a mere movement of 2 cm's with the thumb your running from screen edge to screen edge, so for me the mouse physics and fitt's doesn't apply, as I get where i want to go so much faster because i am there before most people have gotten half way to even reaching for the mouse to start the process. I even emailed and inquired about the head point system where you wear the hat, or stick little circles on your head and a detector senses your head movement and moves the mouse cursor, but its not too supported to linux yet, else probably my thumb pad would be a thing of the past. I even looked at those binary keyboard balls, ..... don't get me started :) .... anyways based on my extreme ways what I require is going to be perhaps in a vast minority. The problem with short cut keys is if you use them very rarely .... use it or lose it. For me I find the best thing is the Slickedit approach, where you have mouse/pulldowns, etc but as you want it you can assign everything to keyboard short cuts, so you can grow at your own pace. > > > 2) on the alt tab'ing on a Mac, when you land on a "shrunk" > > app, like in linux dt's it should revert out of "shrunk" state. > > I mean what was apple thinking, you are going to alt tab to a app, > > release on it, and _not_ want to use it? > > The very question is a funny one because if you've been using a Mac > for this long, then you should know, you don't shrink apps, you shrink > windows. So definitely, if you want to shrink a window to the Dock, > and you switch back to the app, it'll stay in the Dock. You can then > create new windows from the app. It's a partcularly Mac phenomenon, > actually, and it throws off Windows users all the time. Linux users > too. Your making me want to plug my mac back in and see... but again, I just remember alt tabbing, landed on the iconic image of the app i was running, that is shrunk (iconified?), and got zip. When i speak of the mac, it is under the context of being (or is sold to be) dead simple. If i put X on the osx10.4 and go crazy downloading ... even KDE, etc, then I am at a Linux distro by then (with the QT/itunes) benifits of the Mac to boot, but I have severely crossed into the power user mode by then, and I would argue that is defeating the purpose on the reason for the Mac. > > > But unless Jobs gets his > > thumb outta his ass, I just see the Mac slipping farther and farther > > behind with respect to usability as compared to a good linux desktop. > > There's "good" again. others have asked what you mean by this; I'd > like to know as well. I think Apple has provided some great, > innovative user interface features, like system-wide instant search, > and Expos? to make sense of all those open windows. Suffice to say > your experience is your own, and you need to make the call on your > platform that makes the most sense for you. That's all any of us can Being a long time mac users, i more then many realize their pedigree ontowards current UI ...... or is that xerox :) but seriously they are hugely inventive. That said, as of late, on my 10.4 install I don't have a 3d desktop, in fact just to get v-desktops i had to go to the apple down load site and download and install something that gave me that functionality, something most Mac users will not venture to do. A power mac users, based on the X ability of Mac, really can get everything a Linux user has, and the benefits of the QT codec, etc, the only reason I don't run a hybrid, is that currently i have a dual dual core opteron 2.6GhzX4 system and two pci-e slots one with a 7900gt dual dual link, and awaiting another. I can't get this on a Mac (yet?), and I certainly can't get a dual quad core (which I am evaling for work) yet on a Mac, and if apple had it, all though their quality is good, their prices are kinda high, if Apple had a dual quad core, with ability for dual card dual dual link dvi graphics cards and it was even 15-20% higher priced then a opteron soln, honestly I'd be running Mac hardware, and a hybrid OSX104. and linux system. What MAC OSX10.4 doesn't provide me with (out of the box) (granted i havnt dug deep in on Mac set up), KDE like (or devil's pie) features to place and size a popup window (from any app) to were i want it, important for a dual head user (i.e. dont want it put down over lapping across both monitors) also to remember last size and placement on some, and over ride placement on others. 3D desktop (beryl/compiz) effects and features. Option like via Devil's Pie, to have control over a app's popup, say a IM message, i want it on all v-desktops. I think this is stuff apple will have to have in time, especially as a certain segment of users get more "poweruser'ish". Another feature that is supposed to be out in beta that is really cool, not sure who gets inventive credit for this, is dual mouse cursors, that concept will take some getting used to , but when you think of it, having the ability to switch mouse cursors, so you could leave one over say on one of your dual or tri monitors, in say your photoshop (gimpshop) window, leave the other in your dev. env. on another window, and warp between mouse cursors, MAN that is going to be sweet, and I have only heard of this coming to Linux (if its coming to mac or MS soon, i'd love to know). Personally, I will use multi mouse cursors, at least 2 if not three of them, the minute its out and stable. Now would multi mouse cursors be a poweruser feature only? or would one day this be considered standard on a OS desktop UI? Hopefully someone will not say thats a Apple innovation, then I will turn really red, but I don't know who innovated that. I guess what I feel is that the opensource community's contribution to these things, must be larger then the resources apple, MS, Sun, etc put into this, so it comes as no surprise to me that where there is a lot more effort/resources there usually is more progress (MS NT OS comes to mind as the only huge negation to this rule). MS has sort of caught up to Linux (with vista) with respect to 3D desktop, and Mac is supposed to be there with its 10.5, but, then MS is going to be 5-6 years before their next major release?, and Apple? 1.5-2 years? In that time, unless a lot of the open source contributors go on sabbatical, its frightening to think about the technology gap that will grow between Linux distro's and MS/Apple. and yes some of it will be eye-candy, but then again, it seems like eye-candy usually becomes a needed feature sooner or later. Also, I would agree that the linux tech. of xgl, etc is version 0.95 right now, well Suse claims compiz is 1.0 like, but beryl is considered < 1.0 release. Anyways, it seems to me the opensource community has a lot of time to ice this stuff before MS and even apple will have their next gen. OS's out ... MS Windows 2012? Apple OS 11 ? bottom line is i hear people saying Mac's are so user friendly and Linux is the opposite, and I just don't see it, I saw it in spades 2-3+ years ago, but I don't see it today, in fact I see tables turned a bit (Suse SLED vs. OSX 10.4 i think would be an example), whats more important is I see the gap growing. -tl > do. :-) > > Cheers, > Aaron. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 22:00:15 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 17:00:15 -0500 Subject: MPX Message-ID: <1170799215.8929.102.camel@stan64.site> (touched on this in my just posted vista/macOS UI post) it had been a while since i read about mpx, here is a good link, there is a aftermarket MS sol'n that came out a bit (months) prior to this, I had read it was going to become standard in X, and thus standard in a Linux distro, and that you could option key between cursors (not just have to have two or more physical pointing devices). Not sure where status is at. So it seems now there is a proprietary soln for Win32, a opensource sol'n for X, i see one google hit for dual cursor dual mouse on OSX, but appears to link to a page that no longer references it. this is for those who might be interested in MPX need to dig more and find out if there is a dual pointer HW mouse that linux supports that works with MPX (on X) http://wearables.unisa.edu.au/mpx/ when i have a spare moment, i cant wait to try it. -tl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 22:01:34 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:01:34 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <1170791661.5808.41.camel@localhost> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <20070206194037.GA7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170791661.5808.41.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <7ac602420702061401h6f2e9ce2t379f9daa01c19207@mail.gmail.com> > um, not exactly sure on price. $500 seems like the very high end, I > suppose, and I'm hoping for somewhat less. We print all our written > work on it, as well as a fair number of downloaded scientific articles; > I don't know what that comes to, a few thousand pages/month I suppose, > not much more than that I hope. I bought a Xerox Phaser 6120 from Costco.ca for about $400 (it was less than $400, but I can't remember the price). It's a colour laser with built-in networking, and the installation CD includes ppds for CUPS. So far, it's worked like a charm, although _sometimes_ the printout includes a couple of blank sheets that were accidentally fed through the printer. This little problem doesn't seem to affect the output, though, and I just put the extra pages back in the paper tray. All in all, I'm very happy with this printer, and I'd definitely buy another one if the need ever arose. Ian PS By the way, my wife has recently started working as a sales rep for Xerox and she tells me the Phaser line is the bane of Xerox' existence because they won't die, so Xerox never makes another sale to those who buy one. I'm not 100% certain that my printer is of the same quality, though, because it's a "consumer" product, not a "business" product. -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 22:33:03 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:33:03 -0500 Subject: Why Linux is more secure than Windows In-Reply-To: <50951.207.188.67.188.1170792363.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50951.207.188.67.188.1170792363.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On 06/02/07, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > http://blogs.zdnet.com/threatchaos/?p=311 > > A graphical display of system calls, comparing the two operating systems. ohhh, that's a PEACH ! [bookmark, little star] djp > > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 22:50:11 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:50:11 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <1170791661.5808.41.camel@localhost> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <20070206194037.GA7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170791661.5808.41.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20070206225011.GB7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 02:54:21PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > um, not exactly sure on price. $500 seems like the very high end, I > suppose, and I'm hoping for somewhat less. We print all our written > work on it, as well as a fair number of downloaded scientific articles; > I don't know what that comes to, a few thousand pages/month I suppose, > not much more than that I hope. Well I know my farther decided the inkjet was costing too much in ink and the head got clogged to often and was hassle. He now runs a nice ethernet connected Xerox Phaser 6300N. Given after mail in rebate they are $1149 for a full colour laser with adobe postscript level 3 (not some knock off that doesn't work), they are hard to beat for compatiblity. After all if it has real postscript, and a network connection, native IPP, a web interface, etc, how can it not work with everything? It is also amazingly fast (the 800MHz PPC processor seems good at rendering postscript.) If you want duplex (which can be nice I admit) that will cost $250 more. If you consider cost per page of many "cheap" laser priters, you realize it won't take that many thousands of pages before the "cheap" printer becomes a rather expensice printer (and a much slower one too). Do not ever consider the Phaser 8xxx series unless your print volume is more like 1000+ pages per day. It has some very expensive habits if the head cools off. So it might look cheap at $650, and it sure prints nice and fast and has very nice features, but if it isn't used and the head gets cold due to a power blip or something, it will eat between 5 and 10 dollars in ink to flush out the head. If your print volume is high though, and it never really gets a chance to be idle, then it is a very economical printer in terms of cost per page. I have looked at some of the $100 BW laser printers you can get, and they typically rival an inkjet (if not worse) in cost per page, and have very bad linux support in general (they are often win printers since that way they save the cost of a rendering engine in the printer). Until you hit about $1000 or so, it seems you get ripped off on the supplies (since the idea is to hook you on the cheap printer, and then if you actually use it much, they make the real profits on the supplies you have to buy). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 23:02:52 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 18:02:52 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <7ac602420702061401h6f2e9ce2t379f9daa01c19207-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <20070206194037.GA7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170791661.5808.41.camel@localhost> <7ac602420702061401h6f2e9ce2t379f9daa01c19207@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070206230252.GC7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 05:01:34PM -0500, Ian Petersen wrote: > I bought a Xerox Phaser 6120 from Costco.ca for about $400 (it was > less than $400, but I can't remember the price). It's a colour laser > with built-in networking, and the installation CD includes ppds for > CUPS. So far, it's worked like a charm, although _sometimes_ the > printout includes a couple of blank sheets that were accidentally fed > through the printer. This little problem doesn't seem to affect the > output, though, and I just put the extra pages back in the paper tray. > > All in all, I'm very happy with this printer, and I'd definitely buy > another one if the need ever arose. > > Ian > > PS By the way, my wife has recently started working as a sales rep for > Xerox and she tells me the Phaser line is the bane of Xerox' existence > because they won't die, so Xerox never makes another sale to those who > buy one. I'm not 100% certain that my printer is of the same quality, > though, because it's a "consumer" product, not a "business" product. Other than the issues with the phaser 8xxx line (not that they break, just the idiotic head flush requirement), they are amazingly solid. My farther very much likes his 6300N, although the 8400N was a very expensive mistake (which Xerox to their credit did take back at full original purchase price against the 6300N, although he is still out close to $1000 in supplies it wasted). I would have thought Xerox liked happy customers with reliable products that kept buying supplies from them for years and years. If your products keep dieing, people will go buy something else next time. The 6120 looks decent. It has a 300MHz cpu for postscript level 3 rendering, and a network link. It is 4 pass for colour rather than 1 pass on the 6300, but for a casual user that is hardly and issue, and for users that hardly ever use colour it is really no issue at all. I don't know if it is built like a tank the way the 6300 and such are, but the specs sound nice. Maybe I should get one of those for home to replace the @#$#@$ HP inkjet that came free with my wife's laptop. I see they have a duplexor option for the 6120 as well, which adds 128MB ram, and the duplexor, and costs $509. Doesn't that start to bring the price up close to the cost of a 6300DN which is 5 times faster at colour, and costs a bit less per page? I doubt they will sell many of those options. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 23:04:03 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 18:04:03 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <1170792679.3332.316.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <1170792679.3332.316.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <20070206230403.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 03:11:19PM -0500, John Van Ostrand wrote: > You can't go wrong with a Jet Direct. There a little pricey (~$200) but > of all the Jet Directs I've installed I've only had one or two fail. > I've used other, cheaper print servers and have always been > disappointed. Can't go wrong with the network port built in to many printers either. An add on print server or network card for a printer is almost always way too expensive compared to getting a printer with the feature built in in the first place. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 23:09:03 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 18:09:03 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <1170797130.8929.90.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> <1170784172.8929.21.camel@stan64.site> <4386c5b20702061054s327fc830n7685a02e18d5bdff@mail.gmail.com> <1170797130.8929.90.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <20070206230903.GE7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 04:25:30PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > Yeah i guess honestly this is where i am in a extremely small minority, > I choose to adopt a thumb touchpad keyboard many years ago, > i mean to me, i hate to say it, if you have to move your > hands off the touch typing position and grab a mouse, you immediately > get invalidated as a power user. People some times sit down at my desk > and want to use my computer to show me something and usually state the > same thing, how can you use this!?, in a mere movement of 2 cm's with > the thumb your running from screen edge to screen edge, so for me the > mouse physics and fitt's doesn't apply, as I get where i want to go so > much faster because i am there before most people have gotten half way > to even reaching for the mouse to start the process. I even emailed and > inquired about the head point system where you wear the hat, or stick > little circles on your head and a detector senses your head movement and > moves the mouse cursor, but its not too supported to linux yet, else > probably my thumb pad would be a thing of the past. I even looked at > those binary keyboard balls, ..... don't get me started :) .... > anyways based on my extreme ways what I require is going to be perhaps > in a vast minority. > The problem with short cut keys is if you use them very rarely .... > use it or lose it. > For me I find the best thing is the Slickedit approach, where you have > mouse/pulldowns, etc but as you want it you can assign everything to > keyboard short cuts, so you can grow at your own pace. To me, touch pads, pointer sticks, and track balls are all useless. They are less accurate to use (well for fine movement the track ball isn't bad, but for going direct to a certain place on the screen, it sucks). If you need any pointing device at all, you probably aren't really a power user. A well setup interface shouldn't have any reason for a pointing device in general. So a graphical browser might need ine, but in that case I at least want something accurate that will go to whatever part of the screen needed immediately, and you almost never need to move back to the keyboard in that case, since you are mostly just clicking links and scrolling. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 23:25:19 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 18:25:19 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <20070206230403.GD7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <1170792679.3332.316.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070206230403.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45C90E5F.4010809@telly.org> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 03:11:19PM -0500, John Van Ostrand wrote: > >> You can't go wrong with a Jet Direct. > Can't go wrong with the network port built in to many printers either. > An add on print server or network card for a printer is almost always > way too expensive compared to getting a printer with the feature built > in in the first place. > What they said. I?ve now had an Officejet 7130 for almost three years and it's needed nothing except ink and one replacement ($50) printhead. At the time, $650 seemed pricey but it had a JetDirect built-in and duplex too. Well supported under Linux by HP, though I wish I could receive faxes into the PC. Since then I've been involved in the install of some newer Officejets and they seemed to work fine too. As for routers, what about those Linksys units that can be flashed with Linux? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 23:44:39 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 18:44:39 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <20070206230903.GE7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> <1170784172.8929.21.camel@stan64.site> <4386c5b20702061054s327fc830n7685a02e18d5bdff@mail.gmail.com> <1170797130.8929.90.camel@stan64.site> <20070206230903.GE7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1170805479.8929.134.camel@stan64.site> On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 18:09 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 04:25:30PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > > Yeah i guess honestly this is where i am in a extremely small minority, > > I choose to adopt a thumb touchpad keyboard many years ago, > > i mean to me, i hate to say it, if you have to move your > > hands off the touch typing position and grab a mouse, you immediately > > get invalidated as a power user. People some times sit down at my desk > > and want to use my computer to show me something and usually state the > > same thing, how can you use this!?, in a mere movement of 2 cm's with > > the thumb your running from screen edge to screen edge, so for me the > > mouse physics and fitt's doesn't apply, as I get where i want to go so > > much faster because i am there before most people have gotten half way > > to even reaching for the mouse to start the process. I even emailed and > > inquired about the head point system where you wear the hat, or stick > > little circles on your head and a detector senses your head movement and > > moves the mouse cursor, but its not too supported to linux yet, else > > probably my thumb pad would be a thing of the past. I even looked at > > those binary keyboard balls, ..... don't get me started :) .... > > anyways based on my extreme ways what I require is going to be perhaps > > in a vast minority. > > The problem with short cut keys is if you use them very rarely .... > > use it or lose it. > > For me I find the best thing is the Slickedit approach, where you have > > mouse/pulldowns, etc but as you want it you can assign everything to > > keyboard short cuts, so you can grow at your own pace. > > To me, touch pads, pointer sticks, and track balls are all useless. > They are less accurate to use (well for fine movement the track ball > isn't bad, but for going direct to a certain place on the screen, it > sucks). If you need any pointing device at all, you probably aren't > really a power user. A well setup interface shouldn't have any reason > for a pointing device in general. So a graphical browser might need > ine, but in that case I at least want something accurate that will go to > whatever part of the screen needed immediately, and you almost never > need to move back to the keyboard in that case, since you are mostly > just clicking links and scrolling. I am there! or i tried to be, some time ago i downloaded a version of firefox that had every clickable thing on the web page assigned to a keyboard letter/number, no mousing in the web page, take about finding heaven. ... but then i go to a flash page, dhtml page, complicated html, etc,etc experiment aborted, back to touch pad. That "well setup interface" (for a poweruser) if you ever find it, let me know. 6-7 years ago I even setup dragon speaking (whatever its called), when i was a windows desktop user, so i could speak out my desktop UI commands, i had limited success, and people in the ofifce thought i was nutz, when i went to linux, i look up that technology for linux, only to find IBM dropped the ball on it (on linux). also if your on the phone, and trying to use desktop via voice, that also doesn't work so good. So I am not without trying to find this utopia you speak off :) -tl > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 6 23:58:16 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 18:58:16 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <45C806DE.6020602-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <45C806DE.6020602@telly.org> Message-ID: <200702061858.17001.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Monday 05 February 2007 23:41, Evan Leibovitch wrote: [snip] > BTW, what _is_ a "good beryl/compiz xgl set up"? I know the thing > is now relatively easy to install, are there any good default > configurations? And why should I care? I've seen videos of this and have tried it on a few machines. As far as I can see, it is nothing more than eye candy that I don't care about. The first thing I do with a new install of any OS, any desktop, is to disable all the effects. I don't need no steenkin' fading menus or dancing windows. I suspect it appeals to the same people who think it's "cool" to have Flash gateway pages for web sites (with no "I want to leave this moronic page, NOW!" link). -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 00:05:57 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 19:05:57 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <20070206230403.GD7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <1170792679.3332.316.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070206230403.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1170806757.3593.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 18:04 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Can't go wrong with the network port built in to many printers either. > An add on print server or network card for a printer is almost always > way too expensive compared to getting a printer with the feature built > in in the first place. In my experience that's not the case. With HP and Okidata that is. The internal print server is often a couple of hundred dollars more. There are benefits to having an internal print server though, which may be why they are priced at a premium. The internal ones will expose consumable levels via SNMP so that you can monitor them centrally. While this is useful for larger organizations. The main value to SOHO is the simplicity, no extra printer cable, power supply and extra device. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 00:26:47 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 06 Feb 2007 19:26:47 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <45C90E5F.4010809-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <1170792679.3332.316.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070206230403.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45C90E5F.4010809@telly.org> Message-ID: Evan Leibovitch writes: > As for routers, what about those Linksys units that can be flashed with > Linux? Unfortunately, Cisco chose to "upgrade" the Linksys WRT54GS so that it's no longer compatible with Linux. Instead, they came out with the WRT54L with half the flash and half the RAM so that it's nowhere near as versatile. Fortunately, there are other manufacturers that make routers which are compatible with the OpenWRT firmware. See this page for complete list: http://wiki.openwrt.org/TableOfHardware Note that I'm still using an older WRT54GS and have no direct experience with some of the other models. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 00:47:20 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 06 Feb 2007 19:47:20 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <1170805479.8929.134.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> <1170784172.8929.21.camel@stan64.site> <4386c5b20702061054s327fc830n7685a02e18d5bdff@mail.gmail.com> <1170797130.8929.90.camel@stan64.site> <20070206230903.GE7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170805479.8929.134.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: ted leslie writes: > On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 18:09 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 04:25:30PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > > > Yeah i guess honestly this is where i am in a extremely small minority, > > > I choose to adopt a thumb touchpad keyboard many years ago, > > > i mean to me, i hate to say it, if you have to move your > > > hands off the touch typing position and grab a mouse, you immediately > > > get invalidated as a power user. People some times sit down at my desk > > > and want to use my computer to show me something and usually state the > > > same thing, how can you use this!?, in a mere movement of 2 cm's with > > > the thumb your running from screen edge to screen edge, so for me the > > > mouse physics and fitt's doesn't apply, as I get where i want to go so > > > much faster because i am there before most people have gotten half way > > > to even reaching for the mouse to start the process. I even emailed and > > > inquired about the head point system where you wear the hat, or stick > > > little circles on your head and a detector senses your head movement and > > > moves the mouse cursor, but its not too supported to linux yet, else > > > probably my thumb pad would be a thing of the past. I even looked at > > > those binary keyboard balls, ..... don't get me started :) .... > > > anyways based on my extreme ways what I require is going to be perhaps > > > in a vast minority. > > > The problem with short cut keys is if you use them very rarely .... > > > use it or lose it. > > > For me I find the best thing is the Slickedit approach, where you have > > > mouse/pulldowns, etc but as you want it you can assign everything to > > > keyboard short cuts, so you can grow at your own pace. > > > > To me, touch pads, pointer sticks, and track balls are all useless. > > They are less accurate to use (well for fine movement the track ball > > isn't bad, but for going direct to a certain place on the screen, it > > sucks). If you need any pointing device at all, you probably aren't > > really a power user. A well setup interface shouldn't have any reason > > for a pointing device in general. So a graphical browser might need > > ine, but in that case I at least want something accurate that will go to > > whatever part of the screen needed immediately, and you almost never > > need to move back to the keyboard in that case, since you are mostly > > just clicking links and scrolling. > > I am there! or i tried to be, some time ago i downloaded a version of > firefox that had every clickable thing on the web page assigned to a > keyboard letter/number, no mousing in the web page, take about finding > heaven. ... but then i go to a flash page, dhtml page, complicated html, > etc,etc > experiment aborted, back to touch pad. That "well setup interface" (for > a poweruser) if you ever find it, let me know. It's called Emacs. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 00:42:30 2007 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 19:42:30 -0500 Subject: bash expansion help In-Reply-To: <20070205181654.GU7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200702032234.16955.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <45C5BAD9.3080903@visible-assets.com> <20070204215327.GF91169@shell.vex.net> <20070205163153.GS7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070205175741.GG91169@shell.vex.net> <20070205181654.GU7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070207004230.GA10091@wp.magstar.net> On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 01:16:54PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Can you find a way do do this with less overhead? I count two > > invocations of the shell, one implicit by using `` and one explicit. > > Hmm, I missed that if was expanding $arm_opts. I had been playing with > it as just foo=`echo ARM{610,710,_{SA110,SA1100,XSCALE}}` which didn't > need another shell. Given the extra variable, no I don't think I can > find a shorter method. Not sure eval or anything else would do it, but > it would take more characters to do it for sure. I'm sure of it. :-) Try eval echo ... -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 02:18:05 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 21:18:05 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <200702061858.17001.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <45C806DE.6020602@telly.org> <200702061858.17001.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <45C936DD.9040602@telly.org> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >> BTW, what _is_ a "good beryl/compiz xgl set up"? I know the thing >> is now relatively easy to install, are there any good default >> configurations? >> > > And why should I care? I've seen videos of this and have tried it on a > few machines. As far as I can see, it is nothing more than eye candy > that I don't care about. The first thing I do with a new install of > any OS, any desktop, is to disable all the effects. I don't need no > steenkin' fading menus or dancing windows. I suspect it appeals to > the same people who think it's "cool" to have Flash gateway pages for > web sites (with no "I want to leave this moronic page, NOW!" link). > So I take it your answer to my question is "no, there are not any good default configurations".... :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 02:46:15 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 21:46:15 -0500 Subject: Why Linux is more secure than Windows In-Reply-To: <50951.207.188.67.188.1170792363.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50951.207.188.67.188.1170792363.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20070206214615.79b1aad7@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Tue, 6 Feb 2007 15:06:03 -0500 (EST) phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > http://blogs.zdnet.com/threatchaos/?p=311 > > A graphical display of system calls, comparing the two operating systems. Heh, anyone who has 'worked' with Windows (I know, oxymoron) has some idea that this is what they're running into, but to actually see it in a graphic form...wow, that's just heinous. Really. Anyone doing any kind of work that would result in that kind of...I can't even think of a word to describe what that is...should be fired and then shot. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: Grab a shovel. I'm only one skull short of a Mousketeer reunion. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 03:05:44 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 22:05:44 -0500 Subject: Evan, please tell me you weren't part of this... In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0702061112h4858aedft965002621786b61e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <92ee967a0702061112h4858aedft965002621786b61e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990702061905g4b8099a4v779f9d9ed204ffff@mail.gmail.com> On 2/6/07, Mike Kallies wrote: > Now *this* is over the top: > > The original thread: http://www.loconet.ca/?p=64 Some nice Swedish graffiti: http://crossnet.se/crossnetflow/community/picsbook/105376.jpg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 03:14:15 2007 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 22:14:15 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <20070206230903.GE7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> <1170784172.8929.21.camel@stan64.site> <4386c5b20702061054s327fc830n7685a02e18d5bdff@mail.gmail.com> <1170797130.8929.90.camel@stan64.site> <20070206230903.GE7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45C94407.1080300@yahoo.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 04:25:30PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > > To me, touch pads, pointer sticks, and track balls are all useless. > They are less accurate to use (well for fine movement the track ball > isn't bad, but for going direct to a certain place on the screen, it > sucks). If you need any pointing device at all, you probably aren't > really a power user. A well setup interface shouldn't have any reason > for a pointing device in general. So a graphical browser might need > ine, but in that case I at least want something accurate that will go to > whatever part of the screen needed immediately, and you almost never > need to move back to the keyboard in that case, since you are mostly > just clicking links and scrolling. Aren't you guys forgetting about other power users using say Gimp or Photoshop that need a mouse ? Some tasks such as close cropping, creating masks, simply cannot be done with just a keyboard. Sometimes people need to use a tablet for sketching. Then there is the plethora of video editors using Maya, Final Cut with three button mice ... Having said that, I'm a keyboard junkie, but it isn't always possible to avoid a mouse or other pointing device. Not everyone uses a computer for programming. :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 04:36:15 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 23:36:15 -0500 Subject: Why Linux is more secure than Windows In-Reply-To: <50951.207.188.67.188.1170792363.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50951.207.188.67.188.1170792363.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On 2/6/07, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > http://blogs.zdnet.com/threatchaos/?p=311 > > A graphical display of system calls, comparing the two operating systems. There's actually also a disanalogy involved... It's not merely an OS comparison; it is a comparison of how two different applications (Apache vs IIS) utilize system calls on two different operating systems. It seems to me that it would be *very* interesting to see a third comparison, which could indeed be done, where they graphed the system calls done when Apache served up a web page on Windows. No doubt it would be somewhat different from the other two graphs; it would be *WAY* more of an OS comparison, since it would take out any fundamental behavioural differences between IIS and Apache. It would also be interesting to see how some other web server like WN or Boa handles things. We might well discover that Apache's behaviour is also pretty byzantine and seeming-wasteful... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 06:28:42 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 01:27:42 +1859 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <20070206230252.GC7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <20070206194037.GA7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170791661.5808.41.camel@localhost> <7ac602420702061401h6f2e9ce2t379f9daa01c19207@mail.gmail.com> <20070206230252.GC7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420702062228n739eba1fi678264c49f0c28bc@mail.gmail.com> > I would have thought Xerox liked happy customers with reliable products > that kept buying supplies from them for years and years. If your > products keep dieing, people will go buy something else next time. Well, in the business market, the printer/photocopier/all-in-one is a depreciable capital expense, so it's a little different from the consumer market. Certainly Xerox does well by selling a long-lived machine that generates positive buzz and brings income via consumables but consider that a machine that lasts 4-5 years (instead of 10+) is still "good" but also brings Xerox the benefit of hardware upgrade invoices every so often. Also, a machine that's 10+ years old and still needs consumables might be a drain on Xerox if the consumables being produced for newer machines don't fit into the older machines. I don't know if this is a real problem or not. As for the tank-ness of the 6120, it's certainly heavy and seems solidly built. The footprint is approximately 18" square, and I'd say the machine ways more than 40 lbs., but all those numbers are estimates--they're not off a spec sheet. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 07:29:59 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 02:29:59 -0500 Subject: Simple video editing? Message-ID: <45C97FF7.5070809@telly.org> I have two DIVX (.avi extension) video files. I want to reduce the size of them, by reducing the size, but also by chopping off the first and last few seconds of the clip. The former I think I can figure out using ffmpeg, but I'm not sure what to use for the the latter. I'd like to have a simple tool that could extract, for instance, the span from 1:15 to 59:45 out of a video. Any suggestions? Is ffmpeg the best tool for resizing? Thanks! - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 07:30:44 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 02:30:44 -0500 Subject: Simple video editing? Message-ID: <45C98024.2010208@telly.org> I have two DIVX (.avi extension) video files. I want to reduce the size of them, by reducing the resolution, but also by chopping off the first and last few seconds of the clip. The former I think I can figure out using ffmpeg, but I'm not sure what to use for the the latter. I'd like to have a simple tool that could extract, for instance, the span from 1:15 to 59:45 out of a video. Any suggestions? Is ffmpeg the best tool for resizing? Thanks! - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 08:23:03 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 09:23:03 +0100 Subject: Simple video editing? In-Reply-To: <45C98024.2010208-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45C98024.2010208@telly.org> Message-ID: <45C98C67.5030803@visible-assets.com> Using transcode it is very likely also possible to do this. Transcode also links into the ffmpeg code if it's specified as a build option. There is also lots of documentation about transcode. http://www.transcoding.org/cgi-bin/transcode There are several methods of reducing the size of each of the movies. You might also want to look into encoding the audio with a different codec or using a slightly lower sampling rate (I usually find that 160 kbps is more than enough for most films). You can also reduce the frequency of keyframes in the mpeg conversion I think. Most of my use with transcode comes from using 'dvd::rip' (obviously for encoding ... umm... all of those home-movies with my kids and whatnot... what am i saying, i don't even have any kids) but I would recommend it without hesitation. ~/Chris Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I have two DIVX (.avi extension) video files. I want to reduce the size > of them, by reducing the resolution, but also by chopping off the first > and last few seconds of the clip. > > The former I think I can figure out using ffmpeg, but I'm not sure what > to use for the the latter. > I'd like to have a simple tool that could extract, for instance, the > span from 1:15 to 59:45 out of a video. > > Any suggestions? Is ffmpeg the best tool for resizing? > > Thanks! > > - Evan > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 09:29:40 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 12:29:40 +0300 Subject: Sasl Digest-md5 support for openldap Message-ID: Hallo pals, Sometime back, I wrote to the tlug seeking some help on openldap schema. I managed to overcome that particular problem, thanks for your guidance, but I haven't figured how to enable sasl despite giving it a trial numerous times. I am writing seeking help with this issue. A recap on what I am doing. I have a working ldap that can do both simple and ssl binding/queries. I have populated it and in fact enabled a couple of application to use it. I am using fedora 6, and the default openldap version 2.3.27-4, cyrus-sasl-2.1.22-4 and cyrus-sasl-md5-2.1.22-4. I believe sasl digest-md5 is enabled on ldap, if one believes below querry [root at localhost william]# ldapsearch -x -s base -b "" "(objectclass=*)" + # extended LDIF # # LDAPv3 # base <> with scope baseObject # filter: (objectclass=*) # requesting: + # # dn: structuralObjectClass: OpenLDAProotDSE configContext: cn=config namingContexts: dc=afsat,dc=com supportedControl: 1.3.6.1.4.1.4203.1.9.1.1 supportedControl: 2.16.840.1.113730.3.4.18 supportedControl: 2.16.840.1.113730.3.4.2 supportedControl: 1.3.6.1.4.1.4203.1.10.1 supportedControl: 1.2.840.113556.1.4.319 supportedControl: 1.2.826.0.1.334810.2.3 supportedControl: 1.2.826.0.1.3344810.2.3 supportedControl: 1.3.6.1.1.13.2 supportedControl: 1.3.6.1.1.13.1 supportedControl: 1.3.6.1.1.12 supportedExtension: 1.3.6.1.4.1.4203.1.11.1 supportedExtension: 1.3.6.1.4.1.4203.1.11.3 supportedFeatures: 1.3.6.1.1.14 supportedFeatures: 1.3.6.1.4.1.4203.1.5.1 supportedFeatures: 1.3.6.1.4.1.4203.1.5.2 supportedFeatures: 1.3.6.1.4.1.4203.1.5.3 supportedFeatures: 1.3.6.1.4.1.4203.1.5.4 supportedFeatures: 1.3.6.1.4.1.4203.1.5.5 supportedLDAPVersion: 3 supportedSASLMechanisms: DIGEST-MD5 supportedSASLMechanisms: CRAM-MD5 entryDN: subschemaSubentry: cn=Subschema result search: 2 result: 0 Success # numResponses: 2 # numEntries: 1 Clearly Digest-md5 look like it sould work. There is also the sasl database. After installation, it looks like redhat guys creat a default account, whose password I have not figured out. I have created other two as shown below, but they haven't allowed successful access through sasl either [root at localhost kihara]# /usr/sbin/sasldblistusers2 kihara-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob at public.gmane.org: userPassword admin-kTeZXNXRcg2w25LekrCu8cM6rOWSkUom at public.gmane.org: userPassword admin-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob at public.gmane.org: userPassword admin-kTeZXNXRcg2w25LekrCu8cM6rOWSkUom at public.gmane.org is what was created by the installation process. The rest were manually generated by me as I didn't have access to the admin-kTeZXNXRcg0YjaQjVNXZ7LjjLBE8jN/0 at public.gmane.org password. However, logging in using the later two haven't been helpful as below error shows [root at localhost kihara]# ldapsearch -U admin-kTeZXNXRcg2w25LekrCu8cM6rOWSkUom at public.gmane.org -b 'dc= afsat.com' SASL/DIGEST-MD5 authentication started Please enter your password: ldap_sasl_interactive_bind_s: Invalid credentials (49) additional info: SASL(-13): user not found: no secret in database [root at localhost kihara]# ldapsearch -U admin -b 'dc=afsat.com' SASL/DIGEST-MD5 authentication started Please enter your password: ldap_sasl_interactive_bind_s: Invalid credentials (49) additional info: SASL(-13): user not found: no secret in database Now the question is, what database is the above error referring to? sasldb or bdb, the backend of ldap? Can change of host name lead to problems and what need to be edited to alleviate the issue? Advice and thanks in advance William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 14:02:32 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 09:02:32 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <1170792679.3332.316.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070206230403.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45C90E5F.4010809@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070207140232.GF7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 07:26:47PM -0500, Tim Writer wrote: > Unfortunately, Cisco chose to "upgrade" the Linksys WRT54GS so that it's no > longer compatible with Linux. Instead, they came out with the WRT54L with > half the flash and half the RAM so that it's nowhere near as versatile. > Fortunately, there are other manufacturers that make routers which are > compatible with the OpenWRT firmware. See this page for complete list: > > http://wiki.openwrt.org/TableOfHardware > > Note that I'm still using an older WRT54GS and have no direct experience > with some of the other models. The WRT54GL is identical to the WRT54G v4, which had full ram, and such, and it still runs linux and is still flashable to whichever you want. The WRT54G v5 and above, and I believe the WRT54GS v2 and above are both stripped down, and running vmworks, and according to reviews they are amazingly crappy routers compared to the linux based versions. I am amazed that a few MB or ram and flash can save enough money to pay a license for vmworks, and still supposedly come out cheaper to produce. Weird. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 14:04:33 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 09:04:33 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <1170806757.3593.7.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <1170792679.3332.316.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070206230403.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170806757.3593.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070207140433.GG7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 07:05:57PM -0500, John Van Ostrand wrote: > In my experience that's not the case. With HP and Okidata that is. The > internal print server is often a couple of hundred dollars more. > > There are benefits to having an internal print server though, which may > be why they are priced at a premium. The internal ones will expose > consumable levels via SNMP so that you can monitor them centrally. While > this is useful for larger organizations. The main value to SOHO is the > simplicity, no extra printer cable, power supply and extra device. Given how many newer laser printers simply come with network standard, it doesn't seem like a big deal anymore. If you want a networked printer, buy a networked printer, don't add an external print server or add in card, since both are going to be expensive options, or not as good. I am still amazed you can get a xerox colour laser with networking and postscript level 3 for $400. -- Len Sorense -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 14:14:19 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 09:14:19 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <7ac602420702062228n739eba1fi678264c49f0c28bc-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <20070206194037.GA7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170791661.5808.41.camel@localhost> <7ac602420702061401h6f2e9ce2t379f9daa01c19207@mail.gmail.com> <20070206230252.GC7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420702062228n739eba1fi678264c49f0c28bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070207141419.GH7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 08, 2007 at 01:27:42AM +1859, Ian Petersen wrote: > Well, in the business market, the printer/photocopier/all-in-one is a > depreciable capital expense, so it's a little different from the > consumer market. Certainly Xerox does well by selling a long-lived > machine that generates positive buzz and brings income via consumables > but consider that a machine that lasts 4-5 years (instead of 10+) is > still "good" but also brings Xerox the benefit of hardware upgrade > invoices every so often. All they have to do is make one that is sufficiently better (faster, better print quality, etc), then people will upgrade. Besides if they are that good they can just sell to all the people they haven't sold to yet. :) > Also, a machine that's 10+ years old and still needs consumables might > be a drain on Xerox if the consumables being produced for newer > machines don't fit into the older machines. I don't know if this is a > real problem or not. At the profit margins on consumables, that is hardly an issue. I think they will survive. > As for the tank-ness of the 6120, it's certainly heavy and seems > solidly built. The footprint is approximately 18" square, and I'd say > the machine ways more than 40 lbs., but all those numbers are > estimates--they're not off a spec sheet. Well you are right. The specs say 44 lbs, and 17.4 x 15.6". The 6300 adds 8" to the depth due to having 4 rollers instead of 1. Also makes the weight 77 lbs instead. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 14:47:20 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 09:47:20 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <20070207140433.GG7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <1170792679.3332.316.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070206230403.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170806757.3593.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070207140433.GG7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1170859640.3332.329.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 09:04 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Given how many newer laser printers simply come with network standard, > it doesn't seem like a big deal anymore. If you want a networked > printer, buy a networked printer, don't add an external print server or > add in card, since both are going to be expensive options, or not as > good. I agree but with business printers you often don't have a choice. Consumer or SOHO may be different now. One thing to watch out for is that some of the HP multi-functions advertise a network model and simply ship an external Jet Direct with the standard model printer. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 15:27:56 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 10:27:56 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <1170859640.3332.329.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <1170792679.3332.316.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070206230403.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170806757.3593.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070207140433.GG7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170859640.3332.329.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <45C9EFFC.60009@telly.org> John Van Ostrand wrote: > One thing to watch out for is that some of the HP multi-functions advertise a network model and simply ship an external Jet Direct with > the standard model printer. > I'm not sure why this something to 'watch out for'. In the model I bought (OJ 7130) that's what I got; the printer had parallel and USB ports, and the JetDirect fit (exactly) into the parallel port. The module was powered by the parallel port so it didn't have its own power brick, and it fit nicely in the recess area for the port; it might as well be built-in. If it works as advertised, what's the difference ? I take this as _extra_ flexibility, because the numbers of printers shipped with a parallel port these days is shrinking. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 15:35:17 2007 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 10:35:17 -0500 Subject: Linux and Religion Message-ID: <200702071035.17501.wildberger@cogeco.ca> What has Linux to do with Religion?. Nothing ! And yet, I find myself thinking of how much the mindset of Linuxers has in common with religious goals. Let me list some of the similarities as they come to mind: -My religion is better than yours. My distro is better than yours. -Any religion other than mine is evil. Any OS other than Linux should be shunt. -Close your mind to the doctrines and merits of other alternatives. -Spread your believes by any means, regardless, if it is asked for or not. -Be disparaging and disruptive of the endeavors of those outside your own brand I could go on for more, but I am sure you get the drift. The recent discussions on the "Icehouse affair" highlighted some of the above. For the life of me, I cannot understand why people cannot accept the simple concept of open source software in the spirit it was conceived. Let the community work together to achieve the best result without being slowed down by petty jealousies. If you should find a particular distro to do the job, then be glad and tell others why you think so, without forcing it on them or diparage other distros. The effort of spreading the gospel of Linux has a lot of merit for for those who derive some financial gain by the increase of the number of Linux users. For me it has the benefit of getting more information published, which in turn will help the development of better distros. So, more power to those people who weathered the cold in front of the Icehouse to get some Linux publicity. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stewsinc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 15:46:34 2007 From: stewsinc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Stewart Sinclair) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 10:46:34 -0500 Subject: Public concerns In-Reply-To: <45C94407.1080300-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> <1170784172.8929.21.camel@stan64.site> <4386c5b20702061054s327fc830n7685a02e18d5bdff@mail.gmail.com> <1170797130.8929.90.camel@stan64.site> <20070206230903.GE7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45C94407.1080300@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <45C9F45A.5020008@eol.ca> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070206.wnetneut0206/BNStory/Technology/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20070206.wnetneut0206 globeandmail.com: Tories fear telecom giants? Posted AT 8:22 PM EST ON 06/02/07 Tories fear telecom giants? LEE-ANNE GOODMAN CANADIAN PRESS Internal documents suggest the Tory government is reluctant to impose consumer safeguards for the Web because it wants to protect the competitive position of businesses that offer Internet access. Documents obtained by The Canadian Press indicate that Industry Minister Maxime Bernier, who has previously declared a ?consumer first? approach, is carefully heeding the arguments of large telecommunications companies like Videotron and Telus against so-called Net neutrality legislation. Net neutrality, dubbed the First Amendment of the Internet in the United States, aims to ensure the public can view the smallest blogs just as quickly and easily as the largest corporate websites. It stops telecom giants from ensuring that pages of companies that pay them load faster than any others. Mr. Bernier has been poring over a report for almost a year by the federally appointed Telecommunications Policy Review Panel that recommends changes to the Telecommunications Act, including replacing a clause on ?unjust discrimination? that does little to either uphold the principles of Net neutrality or prevent it from being violated. ...cut -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 15:50:41 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 10:50:41 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <1170859640.3332.329.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <1170792679.3332.316.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070206230403.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170806757.3593.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070207140433.GG7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170859640.3332.329.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <20070207155041.GI7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 07, 2007 at 09:47:20AM -0500, John Van Ostrand wrote: > I agree but with business printers you often don't have a choice. > Consumer or SOHO may be different now. I consider something like a phaser 6300 to be a perfectly good business printer, and potentially SOHO too. The 6120 is certainly at a price where consumer sounds reasonable (I am tempted to go buy one myself). > One thing to watch out for is that some of the HP multi-functions > advertise a network model and simply ship an external Jet Direct with > the standard model printer. That sounds sucky. Of course I don't buy HP, so I would't know. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 15:51:58 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 10:51:58 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <45C9EFFC.60009-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <1170792679.3332.316.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070206230403.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170806757.3593.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070207140433.GG7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170859640.3332.329.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <45C9EFFC.60009@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070207155158.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 07, 2007 at 10:27:56AM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I'm not sure why this something to 'watch out for'. In the model I > bought (OJ 7130) that's what I got; the printer had parallel and USB > ports, and the JetDirect fit (exactly) into the parallel port. The > module was powered by the parallel port so it didn't have its own power > brick, and it fit nicely in the recess area for the port; it might as > well be built-in. Could it be configured from the printer's control panel (they may have tied it in with custom pins on the parallel port)? > If it works as advertised, what's the difference ? I take this as > _extra_ flexibility, because the numbers of printers shipped with a > parallel port these days is shrinking. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 15:56:39 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 10:56:39 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <45C9EFFC.60009-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <1170792679.3332.316.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070206230403.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170806757.3593.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070207140433.GG7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170859640.3332.329.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <45C9EFFC.60009@telly.org> Message-ID: <1170863799.3332.357.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 10:27 -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I'm not sure why this something to 'watch out for'. In the model I > bought (OJ 7130) that's what I got; the printer had parallel and USB > ports, and the JetDirect fit (exactly) into the parallel port. The > module was powered by the parallel port so it didn't have its own power > brick, and it fit nicely in the recess area for the port; it might as > well be built-in. > > If it works as advertised, what's the difference ? I take this as > _extra_ flexibility, because the numbers of printers shipped with a > parallel port these days is shrinking. It may simply not be what one is expecting. Having a print server hanging perilously off the back, or not having the ability to SNMP manage consumables may be things one wants. (I am assuming that one can't manage consumables with SNMP on these.) Think of the first Winmodem or Windows GDI printers people bought. Hey it worked as advertised and may have satisfied most people, but some would have wanted to know those differences before hand. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 15:59:12 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 10:59:12 -0500 Subject: Linux and Religion In-Reply-To: <200702071035.17501.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200702071035.17501.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <20070207155912.GK7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 07, 2007 at 10:35:17AM -0500, John Wildberger wrote: > What has Linux to do with Religion?. Nothing ! > And yet, I find myself thinking of how much the mindset of Linuxers has in > common with religious goals. > Let me list some of the similarities as they come to mind: > > -My religion is better than yours. My distro is better than yours. I think my distrobution is better than yours, which is why I use it. If you want to know why I will tell you, otherwise you can do what you want. > -Any religion other than mine is evil. Any OS other than Linux should be > shunt. Did you mean shunned? I think lots of OSs are just fine, I just think some are better than others. I find windows quite annoying in many ways, and it seems to get unstable over time, which is hard to put up with when I have debian installations that run as well as the day I installed them (in 1998) with many upgrades done in place ever since. If you need to run a program that only exists for windows, then go ahead and do that. If you don't need to, then I don't know why you would want to put yourself through all the suffering (or put your personal tech support through the suffering). My dad recently asked me 'what is that computer under the desk doing' to which I replied 'running the internet connection'. I thought it wasn't doing anything anymore since he never had to reboot or power cycle or anything to it anymore (It used to have a network card issue which I resolved by changing the type of cards). > -Close your mind to the doctrines and merits of other alternatives. I prefer to look at the alternatives and see if there is ever anything better. That is why I have gone through many distributions over the years. > -Spread your believes by any means, regardless, if it is asked for or not. I prefer to tell people if they ask. The rest of the time people aren't interested. > -Be disparaging and disruptive of the endeavors of those outside your own > brand But they might come up with good ideas that can be copied into my choice. Better to spend effort improving what I use than to disrupt what others use. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 15:52:31 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 15:52:31 +0000 Subject: Linux and Religion In-Reply-To: <200702071035.17501.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200702071035.17501.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: On 2/7/07, John Wildberger wrote: > > What has Linux to do with Religion?. Nothing ! > And yet, I find myself thinking of how much the mindset of Linuxers has in > common with religious goals. > Let me list some of the similarities as they come to mind: > > -My religion is better than yours. My distro is better than yours. > -Any religion other than mine is evil. Any OS other than Linux should be > shunt. > -Close your mind to the doctrines and merits of other alternatives. > -Spread your believes by any means, regardless, if it is asked for or not. > -Be disparaging and disruptive of the endeavors of those outside your own > brand > > I could go on for more, but I am sure you get the drift. I have to disagree. This sort of thing applies identically with the following assorted substitutions: s/religion/football team/g s/religion/operating system/g s/religion/US political party/g s/religion/Star Ship Enterprise captain/g s/religion/computer language/g s/religion/barbeque style/g -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 16:35:05 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 11:35:05 -0500 Subject: Linux and Religion In-Reply-To: <200702071035.17501.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200702071035.17501.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <45C9FFB9.604@telly.org> John Wildberger wrote: > What has Linux to do with Religion?. Nothing! > I guess you haven't seen Richard Stallman don a robe, put an old mainframe disk platter on his head and refer to himself as 'Saint iGNUcius'. I wish I could make that up; I've seen him do it twice. http://www.gnu.org/people/saintignucius.jpg There is no question that some in the community that the philosophy of free software is itself based on certain fundamental beliefs about human nature, and could qualify by some definitions as religion. Arguably, the main difference between the philosophies of "open source" and "free software" are that "open source" people believe that this stuff is more efficient, more secure, better value and a better use of resources, while "free software" advocates simply believe that software freedom is a moral imperative. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-for-freedom.html > And yet, I find myself thinking of how much the mindset of Linuxers has in > common with religious goals. > Let me list some of the similarities as they come to mind: > > -My religion is better than yours. My distro is better than yours. > -Any religion other than mine is evil. Any OS other than Linux should be > shunt. > -Close your mind to the doctrines and merits of other alternatives. > -Spread your believes by any means, regardless, if it is asked for or not. > -Be disparaging and disruptive of the endeavors of those outside your own > brand > I think in the above you're confusing 'religion' (which a belief system) and 'advocacy' (which is the energetic promotion of one approach to an issue in preference over other similar approaches). Indeed, many of the statements above could apply to simple marketing tactics. Having said that -- to infer religion is to talk about moral codes and matters of philosophy on human nature, and there are certainly many examples of that within our community. > The effort of spreading the gospel of Linux has a lot of merit for for those > who derive some financial gain by the increase of the number of Linux users. > For me it has the benefit of getting more information published, which in > turn will help the development of better distros. So, more power to those > people who weathered the cold in front of the Icehouse to get some Linux > publicity. > If you recall how this thread started, it was about the fact that the largest publicity it generated was _negative_. While existing geeks and Linux fans thought it was a neat idea, outsiders -- the ones they're trying to convince -- derided it. I'm not knocking advocacy events; I've helped to stage a few of them myself, and I applaud the efforts of others here, including GTALUG, in its efforts to get the word out. However, the Ice House event was poorly planned (city permits, anyone?) reactive rather than active (why have Microsoft dictate the time and place of your efforts?) and amateurly staged. Of the sincerity and eagerness of the participants I have no doubt, but their energy could have been put to much better effect; this community has been around for a decade and has learned some lessons in the past about getting the kind of publicity that appeals to the audience that doesn't yet know or understand Linux. The Icehouse event was a bad tactic, badly conceived, and the publicity results bear that out. The handful of people who were receptive at the event does not balance out the tens of thousands who were exposed to the negative article at CRN; the damage far outweighed the benefit. It's no coincidence that two of the biggest critics of the event -- Marcel and me -- are professional writers who have deep background into the challenges of getting positive publicity, and an awareness of the attitudes of the people the community is trying to sway. Both of us have dedicated big chunks of our careers to promoting Linux and open source to the masses, and appreciate any reasonable attempt at doing so. This was not one of them. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 16:46:07 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 11:46:07 -0500 Subject: Simple video editing? In-Reply-To: <45C98024.2010208-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45C98024.2010208@telly.org> Message-ID: <1170866767.8929.196.camel@stan64.site> i use mplayer/mencoder this is my shell line to chop up something start=430; end=780; diff=`sh -c "expr $end - $start"`; frm=`sh -c "expr $diff \* 30"`; mencoder $V -ovc copy -ss $start -frames $frm -o `mktemp vidXXXXXX` $V is the video clips name have to match frame rate change 30 to 24 or 29 or whatever your in also can re encode by "man mencoder" and change -ovc, also need to add audio flags too some other handy stuff i use for corrections of interlacing, and digital filters, etc are below, also note scale switch, the 3d digital noise filter rocks! -ssf lgb=0.2:cgb=0.1 -vop scale=1152:720,pp=fd,hqdn3d=2:2:18" -double -ssf lgb=0.8:cgb=0.3 -vop eq2=1.0:0.6:0.0:0.9,scale=0,pp=fd,hqdn3d=9:9:15" -tl On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 02:30 -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I have two DIVX (.avi extension) video files. I want to reduce the size > of them, by reducing the resolution, but also by chopping off the first > and last few seconds of the clip. > > The former I think I can figure out using ffmpeg, but I'm not sure what > to use for the the latter. > I'd like to have a simple tool that could extract, for instance, the > span from 1:15 to 59:45 out of a video. > > Any suggestions? Is ffmpeg the best tool for resizing? > > Thanks! > > - Evan > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jane-UlHtTOpGojasTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 16:47:54 2007 From: jane-UlHtTOpGojasTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Jane Zhang) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 11:47:54 -0500 Subject: Linux and Religion In-Reply-To: <45C9FFB9.604-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45C9FFB9.604@telly.org> Message-ID: <002b01c74ad7$b686cc60$9996fea9@Fred> Well then, perhaps we can start planning now for Software Freedom Day 2007? It's going to be Saturday 15th of September this year. http://softwarefreedomday.org/ Regardless if one thinks the Ice House event was a success or not, I do feel there is a need for the Linux community to come together and think strategically about the promotion of Free and Open Source Software. Ideas? Jane -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Evan Leibovitch Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 11:35 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux and Religion John Wildberger wrote: > What has Linux to do with Religion?. Nothing! > I guess you haven't seen Richard Stallman don a robe, put an old mainframe disk platter on his head and refer to himself as 'Saint iGNUcius'. I wish I could make that up; I've seen him do it twice. http://www.gnu.org/people/saintignucius.jpg There is no question that some in the community that the philosophy of free software is itself based on certain fundamental beliefs about human nature, and could qualify by some definitions as religion. Arguably, the main difference between the philosophies of "open source" and "free software" are that "open source" people believe that this stuff is more efficient, more secure, better value and a better use of resources, while "free software" advocates simply believe that software freedom is a moral imperative. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-for-freedom.html > And yet, I find myself thinking of how much the mindset of Linuxers has in > common with religious goals. > Let me list some of the similarities as they come to mind: > > -My religion is better than yours. My distro is better than yours. > -Any religion other than mine is evil. Any OS other than Linux should be > shunt. > -Close your mind to the doctrines and merits of other alternatives. > -Spread your believes by any means, regardless, if it is asked for or not. > -Be disparaging and disruptive of the endeavors of those outside your own > brand > I think in the above you're confusing 'religion' (which a belief system) and 'advocacy' (which is the energetic promotion of one approach to an issue in preference over other similar approaches). Indeed, many of the statements above could apply to simple marketing tactics. Having said that -- to infer religion is to talk about moral codes and matters of philosophy on human nature, and there are certainly many examples of that within our community. > The effort of spreading the gospel of Linux has a lot of merit for for those > who derive some financial gain by the increase of the number of Linux users. > For me it has the benefit of getting more information published, which in > turn will help the development of better distros. So, more power to those > people who weathered the cold in front of the Icehouse to get some Linux > publicity. > If you recall how this thread started, it was about the fact that the largest publicity it generated was _negative_. While existing geeks and Linux fans thought it was a neat idea, outsiders -- the ones they're trying to convince -- derided it. I'm not knocking advocacy events; I've helped to stage a few of them myself, and I applaud the efforts of others here, including GTALUG, in its efforts to get the word out. However, the Ice House event was poorly planned (city permits, anyone?) reactive rather than active (why have Microsoft dictate the time and place of your efforts?) and amateurly staged. Of the sincerity and eagerness of the participants I have no doubt, but their energy could have been put to much better effect; this community has been around for a decade and has learned some lessons in the past about getting the kind of publicity that appeals to the audience that doesn't yet know or understand Linux. The Icehouse event was a bad tactic, badly conceived, and the publicity results bear that out. The handful of people who were receptive at the event does not balance out the tens of thousands who were exposed to the negative article at CRN; the damage far outweighed the benefit. It's no coincidence that two of the biggest critics of the event -- Marcel and me -- are professional writers who have deep background into the challenges of getting positive publicity, and an awareness of the attitudes of the people the community is trying to sway. Both of us have dedicated big chunks of our careers to promoting Linux and open source to the masses, and appreciate any reasonable attempt at doing so. This was not one of them. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 17:25:16 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 12:25:16 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <20070207155158.GJ7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <1170792679.3332.316.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070206230403.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170806757.3593.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070207140433.GG7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170859640.3332.329.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <45C9EFFC.60009@telly.org> <20070207155158.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45CA0B7C.6010004@telly.org> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Feb 07, 2007 at 10:27:56AM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >> I'm not sure why this something to 'watch out for'. In the model I >> bought (OJ 7130) that's what I got; the printer had parallel and USB >> ports, and the JetDirect fit (exactly) into the parallel port. The >> module was powered by the parallel port so it didn't have its own power >> brick, and it fit nicely in the recess area for the port; it might as >> well be built-in. >> > > Could it be configured from the printer's control panel (they may have > tied it in with custom pins on the parallel port)? > Yes. And the PC (including those running Linux) has access to the printer (ink levels, check and set status, modify the fax directory, etc). As for "hanging perilously off the back", that's not necessarily the case. The JetDirect on the back of my printer looks like it was custom-fitted, is smaller than most power bricks, and is quite solidly mounted. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 17:20:03 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 12:20:03 -0500 Subject: Linux and Religion In-Reply-To: <002b01c74ad7$b686cc60$9996fea9@Fred> References: <002b01c74ad7$b686cc60$9996fea9@Fred> Message-ID: <45CA0A43.2040109@telly.org> Jane Zhang wrote: > Well then, perhaps we can start planning now for Software Freedom Day 2007? > It's going to be Saturday 15th of September this year. > http://softwarefreedomday.org/ > Now you're talking! What can/should TLUG do to play its part in this worldwide event? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 17:19:23 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 12:19:23 -0500 Subject: Trouble in LVM land Message-ID: <200702071219.24329.mervc@eol.ca> Well my good experience with LVM didn't last long. A couple of days ago, my Mythtv backend computer would not boot up. All the startup stuff seems to go along well then it halts with can't find videolv01 A helpful message is to use another superblock and e2fsck. Tried that but it doesn't let e2fsck access hda3. Situation on the drive [ setup with the MythDora distro ] hda1 150 MB ext3 /boot hda2 7 GB LVM rootvg rootlv01 / rootlv02 swap hda3 236 GB LVM videovg videolv01 /video To complicate things I extended videolv01 with hdb. I doubt that anything has been written to hdb yet since I haven't done much TV watching. I don't know if the trouble might be caused by hdb or not. Can I just disconnect hdb? I do have a couple of movies and TV shows on the logical volume videolv01, but if I have to lose them, it isn't the end of the world. However without being able to boot up, I don't know how to use any of the LVM tools like lvreduce or lvremove that I see listed. Help from my LVM tutors? I hope that I have supplied enough info. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 17:31:29 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 12:31:29 -0500 Subject: Trouble in LVM land In-Reply-To: <200702071219.24329.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200702071219.24329.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20070207173129.GL7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 07, 2007 at 12:19:23PM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > Well my good experience with LVM didn't last long. > > A couple of days ago, my Mythtv backend computer would not boot up. All the > startup stuff seems to go along well then it halts with > can't find videolv01 > A helpful message is to use another superblock and e2fsck. Tried that but it > doesn't let e2fsck access hda3. > > Situation on the drive [ setup with the MythDora distro ] > hda1 150 MB ext3 /boot > hda2 7 GB LVM rootvg > rootlv01 / > rootlv02 swap > hda3 236 GB LVM videovg > videolv01 /video > > To complicate things I extended videolv01 with hdb. I doubt that > anything has been written to hdb yet since I haven't done much TV watching. I > don't know if the trouble might be caused by hdb or not. Can I just > disconnect hdb? If hdb isn't working, perhaps it can't start the videovg. What does vgdisplay say? All parts of a volume group must be present to access any of it. VGs spanning multiple devices run the same risks as raid0 in that you loose one device, you loose it all. Generally it is recomended that all physical volumes in LVM run raid1 or higher. That is how I run all my LVMs (raid1 devices as the PVs for everything). > I do have a couple of movies and TV shows on the logical volume videolv01, but > if I have to lose them, it isn't the end of the world. However without being > able to boot up, I don't know how to use any of the LVM tools like lvreduce > or lvremove that I see listed. Well being able to boot and fix things is exactly why I will never put / on LVM. > Help from my LVM tutors? I hope that I have supplied enough info. Well my advice was not to put root on LVM, since well it's hard to debug when you can't boot unfortunately. Can you boot a previous kernel? maybe a kernel upgrade broke booting. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 17:32:30 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 12:32:30 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <45CA0B7C.6010004-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <1170792679.3332.316.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070206230403.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170806757.3593.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070207140433.GG7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170859640.3332.329.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <45C9EFFC.60009@telly.org> <20070207155158.GJ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45CA0B7C.6010004@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070207173230.GM7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 07, 2007 at 12:25:16PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Yes. And the PC (including those running Linux) has access to the > printer (ink levels, check and set status, modify the fax directory, etc). > > As for "hanging perilously off the back", that's not necessarily the > case. The JetDirect on the back of my printer looks like it was > custom-fitted, is smaller than most power bricks, and is quite solidly > mounted. Neat design choice. Doesn't sound too different from the cards that are installed into another socket in the printer really. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 17:54:05 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 12:54:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux and Religion In-Reply-To: <45CA0A43.2040109-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45CA0A43.2040109@telly.org> Message-ID: <401931.42738.qm@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Jane Zhang wrote: > > Well then, perhaps we can start planning now for > Software Freedom Day 2007? > > It's going to be Saturday 15th of September this > year. > > http://softwarefreedomday.org/ > > > Now you're talking! > > What can/should TLUG do to play its part in this > worldwide event? Well, let's start with parameters. The problem with a lot of events is they tend to be held in places where unless you are already a Linux fan you will not hear about the event (to continue with the Religion theme, it is like that old expression "preaching to the choir"). 5th floor of a UofT building may be easy to get to, but it isn't going to attract the casual computer user that we would like to reach. So, first point is we want a venue that is VERY public, say corner of Bloor/Yonge? Nathan Phillip Square? or Dundas Square? Sort of place that attracts people... Second point, we want a short (under 30 second) pitch that people who would not know an OS from a hole in the ground can know/understand. We also want a handout again, short and easy to understand that we can pass out by the thousands... What else? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 18:04:55 2007 From: mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Marcel Gagne) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 13:04:55 -0500 Subject: Simple video editing? In-Reply-To: <45C98024.2010208-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45C98024.2010208@telly.org> Message-ID: <200702071304.55457.mggagne@salmar.com> Hello Evan (and everyone else, too), On February 7, 2007 02:30:44 am Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I have two DIVX (.avi extension) video files. I want to reduce the size > of them, by reducing the resolution, but also by chopping off the first > and last few seconds of the clip. > > Any suggestions? Is ffmpeg the best tool for resizing? Given that video is a graphical experience, I tend to prefer graphical tools here. Two of my favourites are KdenLive and Avidemux. http://kdenlive.sourceforge.net/index.php http://avidemux.sourceforge.net/ KdenLive is, for lack of a better word, a movie-making tool (they refer to it as a non-linear video editor). Its downside is that it is still in early development and, while good in many ways, it is somewhat unstable. Avidemux, in terms of flat out simplicity, may be just what you need. As with any video editing tool, however, prepare yourself for an hour or so of playing around before you achieve anything. Later, you'll be thankful. Take care out there. -- Marcel (Writer and Free Thinker at Large) Gagn? Note: This massagee wos nat speel or gramer-checkered. Mandatory home page reference - http://www.marcelgagne.com/ Author of the "Moving to Linux" series of books and the all new, "Moving to Free Software" Join the WFTL-LUG : http://www.marcelgagne.com/wftllugform.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 18:19:27 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 13:19:27 -0500 Subject: Trouble in LVM land In-Reply-To: <200702071219.24329.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200702071219.24329.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <1170872367.3332.369.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 12:19 -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > Well my good experience with LVM didn't last long. > > A couple of days ago, my Mythtv backend computer would not boot up. All the > startup stuff seems to go along well then it halts with > can't find videolv01 > A helpful message is to use another superblock and e2fsck. Tried that but it > doesn't let e2fsck access hda3. > > Situation on the drive [ setup with the MythDora distro ] > hda1 150 MB ext3 /boot > hda2 7 GB LVM rootvg > rootlv01 / > rootlv02 swap > hda3 236 GB LVM videovg > videolv01 /video > > To complicate things I extended videolv01 with hdb. I doubt that > anything has been written to hdb yet since I haven't done much TV watching. I > don't know if the trouble might be caused by hdb or not. Can I just > disconnect hdb? > > I do have a couple of movies and TV shows on the logical volume videolv01, but > if I have to lose them, it isn't the end of the world. However without being > able to boot up, I don't know how to use any of the LVM tools like lvreduce > or lvremove that I see listed. > > Help from my LVM tutors? I hope that I have supplied enough info. Any chance the videolv01 is not activated because the hdb drive is missing or corrupted? Boot to single user and try: vgscan vgchange -a y videolv01 vgdisplay videolv01 If you get an error from any of the above it might be insightful. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 18:30:59 2007 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 13:30:59 -0500 Subject: Linux and Religion In-Reply-To: References: <200702071035.17501.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <200702071330.59673.wildberger@cogeco.ca> On Wednesday 07 February 2007 10:52, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 2/7/07, John Wildberger wrote: > > What has Linux to do with Religion?. Nothing ! > I have to disagree. > > This sort of thing applies identically with the following assorted > substitutions: > > s/religion/football team/g > s/religion/operating system/g > s/religion/US political party/g > s/religion/Star Ship Enterprise captain/g > s/religion/computer language/g > s/religion/barbeque style/g I am sure you are right, but none of your suggested substitutions expresses the implied narrow mindedness and blind zealousness of the number of Linuxers who are unwilling to show respect to other peoples efforts. Religion in this context is the one that comes to mind first. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 18:31:26 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 13:31:26 -0500 Subject: Trouble in LVM land In-Reply-To: <1170872367.3332.369.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <200702071219.24329.mervc@eol.ca> <1170872367.3332.369.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <1170873086.3332.377.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 13:19 -0500, John Van Ostrand wrote: > Any chance the videolv01 is not activated because the hdb drive is > missing or corrupted? Boot to single user and try: > > vgscan > vgchange -a y videolv01 > vgdisplay videolv01 > > If you get an error from any of the above it might be insightful. Ooops, change those videolv01 in the commands to videovg. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jane-UlHtTOpGojasTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 18:32:18 2007 From: jane-UlHtTOpGojasTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Jane Zhang) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 13:32:18 -0500 Subject: Linux and Religion In-Reply-To: <401931.42738.qm-fjYszm/wOJWB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <401931.42738.qm@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003f01c74ae6$4c674bc0$9996fea9@Fred> What if we set up a round-table discussion where we can invite the different open source groups to participate? Do we have an agenda for the March meeting? What about using that as the platform to get organized? In the mean time can we set up a wiki to gather input from the community? The possibilities are endless... :-) Jane -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Colin McGregor Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 12:54 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux and Religion --- Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Jane Zhang wrote: > > Well then, perhaps we can start planning now for > Software Freedom Day 2007? > > It's going to be Saturday 15th of September this > year. > > http://softwarefreedomday.org/ > > > Now you're talking! > > What can/should TLUG do to play its part in this > worldwide event? Well, let's start with parameters. The problem with a lot of events is they tend to be held in places where unless you are already a Linux fan you will not hear about the event (to continue with the Religion theme, it is like that old expression "preaching to the choir"). 5th floor of a UofT building may be easy to get to, but it isn't going to attract the casual computer user that we would like to reach. So, first point is we want a venue that is VERY public, say corner of Bloor/Yonge? Nathan Phillip Square? or Dundas Square? Sort of place that attracts people... Second point, we want a short (under 30 second) pitch that people who would not know an OS from a hole in the ground can know/understand. We also want a handout again, short and easy to understand that we can pass out by the thousands... What else? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 19:17:20 2007 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Mike Oliver) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 11:17:20 -0800 Subject: Linux and Religion In-Reply-To: References: <200702071035.17501.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <45CA25C0.60900@mathstat.yorku.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > This sort of thing applies identically with the following assorted > substitutions: > > s/religion/football team/g > s/religion/operating system/g > s/religion/US political party/g Why *US* political party? Y'all's parties aren't like that? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 20:02:57 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 15:02:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: Software Freedom Day (wasLinux and Religion) In-Reply-To: <45CA0A43.2040109-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <002b01c74ad7$b686cc60$9996fea9@Fred> <45CA0A43.2040109@telly.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Feb 2007, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Jane Zhang wrote: >> Well then, perhaps we can start planning now for Software Freedom Day 2007? >> It's going to be Saturday 15th of September this year. >> http://softwarefreedomday.org/ >> > Now you're talking! > > What can/should TLUG do to play its part in this worldwide event? First, get the local SFD contact involved. According to , that is teddymills AT hotmail.com Teddy is on this list, so perhaps he can chime in here. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 20:05:29 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 15:05:29 -0500 Subject: Linux and Religion In-Reply-To: <45CA25C0.60900-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <200702071035.17501.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <45CA25C0.60900@mathstat.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <20070207200529.GN7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 07, 2007 at 11:17:20AM -0800, Mike Oliver wrote: > Why *US* political party? Y'all's parties > aren't like that? No they aren't. People in most countries are willing to change their government if it isn't doing a good job. Parties can go from major to not even official party status in a single election. The US seems to have gotten stuck with the idea that there are only two parties, and nothing else can ever have a chance. Of course as long as nobody thinks anything else has a chance they won't vote for anything else, which is just silly. A lot of countries have so many parties that you can't ever get a single party with a majority, they have to form coalitions of 5 or 6 parties to form a majority to govern. I believe the 2 party systems is one of the biggest flaws of the US. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 20:06:57 2007 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 15:06:57 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <1170784172.8929.21.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> <1170784172.8929.21.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: On 2/6/07, ted leslie wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 12:12 -0500, Aaron Vegh wrote: > But there are two things that I think are brain dead on a Mac, > 1) why is every apps tool bar on the very top of the screen, > I have been an apple user since about 1981, and certainly when i got my > first 128MB Mac, with only running a few apps, and a small screen, > having a common top pull down menu panel was OK. > Fast forward to this century, and people have 20-30 apps/windows open, > and i don't want to be going to the top of the screen for my menus all > the time. I'm sorry, but the single menu bar at the top of the screen is the Right Way (tm) to do it. I can always find it, even if I'm not looking at the screen. I use linux, windows, and mac os x about equally right now, and I can't tell you how much I wish for a single menu bar in ubuntu. 2) on the alt tab'ing on a Mac, when you land on a "shrunk" > app, like in linux dt's it should revert out of "shrunk" state. > I mean what was apple thinking, you are going to alt tab to a app, > release on it, and _not_ want to use it? Yeah, that's silly. Some freeware app out there can probably change that behavior, but this is a pretty good criticism. I haven't tried out the whole xgl+whatever experience yet, but from what I gather, if I still have to use KDE and Gnome, there are likely going to be usability problems. Gnome as done by Ubuntu is the best I've seen so far. It's the closest to achieving the consistency needed for a good experience. But still, I want that single menu bar. Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 20:54:52 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 15:54:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> <1170784172.8929.21.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Feb 2007, Michael MacLeod wrote: > On 2/6/07, ted leslie wrote: >> >> On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 12:12 -0500, Aaron Vegh wrote: >> But there are two things that I think are brain dead on a Mac, >> 1) why is every apps tool bar on the very top of the screen, >> I have been an apple user since about 1981, and certainly when i got my >> first 128MB Mac, with only running a few apps, and a small screen, >> having a common top pull down menu panel was OK. >> Fast forward to this century, and people have 20-30 apps/windows open, >> and i don't want to be going to the top of the screen for my menus all >> the time. > > > I'm sorry, but the single menu bar at the top of the screen is the Right Way > (tm) to do it. I can always find it, even if I'm not looking at the screen. > I use linux, windows, and mac os x about equally right now, and I can't tell > you how much I wish for a single menu bar in ubuntu. The right way to do it is to offer the user a choice. For those have have windows take focus whenever the mouse passes over them, the single menu bar would not work. I used an Amiga for 15 years before switching to Linux, and I don't miss the single menu bar. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 21:03:06 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 16:03:06 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> <1170784172.8929.21.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <1170882186.8929.224.camel@stan64.site> On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 15:06 -0500, Michael MacLeod wrote: > On 2/6/07, ted leslie wrote: > On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 12:12 -0500, Aaron Vegh wrote: > But there are two things that I think are brain dead on a Mac, > 1) why is every apps tool bar on the very top of the screen, > I have been an apple user since about 1981, and certainly when > i got my > first 128MB Mac, with only running a few apps, and a small > screen, > having a common top pull down menu panel was OK. > Fast forward to this century, and people have 20-30 > apps/windows open, > and i don't want to be going to the top of the screen for my > menus all > the time. > > I'm sorry, but the single menu bar at the top of the screen is the > Right Way (tm) to do it. I can always find it, even if I'm not looking > at the screen. I use linux, windows, and mac os x about equally right > now, and I can't tell you how much I wish for a single menu bar in In 10 years whe you have a 60" monitor with say 10,400x8000 resoluton, it cost 100$ and weights 30 lbs, and every one has one, you will not have a central menu bar at top, trust me. ) -tl > ubuntu. > > > 2) on the alt tab'ing on a Mac, when you land on a "shrunk" > app, like in linux dt's it should revert out of "shrunk" > state. > I mean what was apple thinking, you are going to alt tab to a > app, > release on it, and _not_ want to use it? > > > Yeah, that's silly. Some freeware app out there can probably change > that behavior, but this is a pretty good criticism. > > I haven't tried out the whole xgl+whatever experience yet, but from > what I gather, if I still have to use KDE and Gnome, there are likely > going to be usability problems. Gnome as done by Ubuntu is the best > I've seen so far. It's the closest to achieving the consistency needed > for a good experience. But still, I want that single menu bar. > > Mike > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 21:11:28 2007 From: sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Steve Harvey) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 16:11:28 -0500 Subject: bash expansion help In-Reply-To: <20070207004230.GA10091-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <1170198365.6784.18.camel@localhost> <200701311859.44748.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200702032234.16955.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <45C5BAD9.3080903@visible-assets.com> <20070204215327.GF91169@shell.vex.net> <20070205163153.GS7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070205175741.GG91169@shell.vex.net> <20070205181654.GU7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070207004230.GA10091@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <20070207211128.GH91169@shell.vex.net> On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 07:42:30PM -0500, William Park wrote: > On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 01:16:54PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > Can you find a way do do this with less overhead? I count two > > > invocations of the shell, one implicit by using `` and one explicit. Oops! I missed one. See below. > > > > Hmm, I missed that if was expanding $arm_opts. I had been playing with > > it as just foo=`echo ARM{610,710,_{SA110,SA1100,XSCALE}}` which didn't > > need another shell. Given the extra variable, no I don't think I can > > find a shorter method. Not sure eval or anything else would do it, but > > it would take more characters to do it for sure. > > I'm sure of it. :-) Try > eval echo ... Using eval turns out to be lot more parsimonious. This can be verified using strace. $ arm_opts_exp=`eval echo $arm_opts` #only a single fork w/o execve $ arm_opts_exp=`echo echo $arm_opts | bash` The second form forks three times; the process that parses the stuff between the backticks has to, in turn, fork a process to handle each piece of the pipeline. To make matters worse from a performance POV (not that it often matters), the second of these must locate and exec the bash executable. Piping into bash also has the disadvantage (tried on version 2.05b.0 with libc-2.3.1 which may be a wee bit dated) in that it cannot perform a seek on its input to determine its length, it then reads it one character at a time. > BashDiff: Super Bash shell > http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ Ahh! You forgot the kitchen sink. :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 21:32:53 2007 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 16:32:53 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <1170882186.8929.224.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> <1170784172.8929.21.camel@stan64.site> <1170882186.8929.224.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <4386c5b20702071332v40359594n5afb3de77efc12e8@mail.gmail.com> > In 10 years whe you have a 60" monitor with say 10,400x8000 > resoluton, it cost 100$ and weights 30 lbs, and every one has one, > you will not have a central menu bar at top, trust me. ) If that happens I'll be too happy to care about the menu bar! LOL -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 21:53:34 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 16:53:34 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <1170882186.8929.224.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> <1170784172.8929.21.camel@stan64.site> <1170882186.8929.224.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <1e55af990702071353i68e35aa3xbba7ff998a3bd4dd@mail.gmail.com> On 2/7/07, ted leslie wrote: > In 10 years whe you have a 60" monitor with say 10,400x8000 > resoluton, it cost 100$ and weights 30 lbs, and every one has one, > you will not have a central menu bar at top, trust me. ) I don't know if you've worked on a large screen, but there comes a point when your neck hurts because of the oversized workspace. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 22:38:53 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 17:38:53 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <20070205142736.GE10225-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C6A28E.20104@telly.org> <20070204233502.0132d8a3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <200702042357.09094.softquake@gmail.com> <20070205142736.GE10225@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <45CA54FD.7040904@rogers.com> John Macdonald wrote: > On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 11:57:08PM -0500, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > >> Schrodinger is a something. I am 10 years after doing physics but I can not >> forget Schrodinger equation. Now, I have Schrodinger's cats around! They are >> with me all the time. >> > > Schrodinger's cats would both be with you all the time > and not with you ever. > > How much cat food would you need? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 00:07:18 2007 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 19:07:18 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <45CA54FD.7040904-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45C6A28E.20104@telly.org> <20070204233502.0132d8a3@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <200702042357.09094.softquake@gmail.com> <20070205142736.GE10225@lupus.perlwolf.com> <45CA54FD.7040904@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070208000718.GC20177@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Wed, Feb 07, 2007 at 05:38:53PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > John Macdonald wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 11:57:08PM -0500, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > > >> Schrodinger is a something. I am 10 years after doing physics but I can not > >> forget Schrodinger equation. Now, I have Schrodinger's cats around! They are > >> with me all the time. > >> > > > > Schrodinger's cats would both be with you all the time > > and not with you ever. > > > > > How much cat food would you need? ;-) A lot. The cats would always be there when the food was available and not there when it isn't. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 23:07:22 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 18:07:22 -0500 Subject: Menu Bars (was Re:First impression of Vista) In-Reply-To: References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> <1170784172.8929.21.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <45CA5BAA.8050107@telly.org> FWIW, KDE offers mac-like top-of-screen behavior. >From "configure your desktop" go to "behavior" and select a choice for "menu bar on top of screen". I've tried it and it works Mac-style but I didn't like it and disabled the feature. Personal preference. I just confirmed it on KDE 3.4 on Mandriva and Kubuntu. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 23:24:14 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 18:24:14 -0500 Subject: Software Freedom Day (wasLinux and Religion) In-Reply-To: References: <002b01c74ad7$b686cc60$9996fea9@Fred> <45CA0A43.2040109@telly.org> Message-ID: <200702071824.15626.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Wednesday 07 February 2007 15:02, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Wed, 7 Feb 2007, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Jane Zhang wrote: > >> Well then, perhaps we can start planning now for Software > >> Freedom Day 2007? It's going to be Saturday 15th of September > >> this year. > >> http://softwarefreedomday.org/ > > > > Now you're talking! > > > > What can/should TLUG do to play its part in this worldwide event? > > First, get the local SFD contact involved. According to > , that is > teddymills AT hotmail.com > > Teddy is on this list, so perhaps he can chime in here. Perhaps the first act of emancipation would be for Teddy to get a real email address instead of using one provided by a company that is the antithesis of software freedom :) -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 23:34:57 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 18:34:57 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <1170784172.8929.21.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <200702071834.59235.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Wednesday 07 February 2007 15:06, Michael MacLeod wrote: > On 2/6/07, ted leslie wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 12:12 -0500, Aaron Vegh wrote: > > But there are two things that I think are brain dead on a Mac, > > 1) why is every apps tool bar on the very top of the screen, > > I have been an apple user since about 1981, and certainly when i > > got my first 128MB Mac, with only running a few apps, and a small > > screen, having a common top pull down menu panel was OK. > > Fast forward to this century, and people have 20-30 apps/windows > > open, and i don't want to be going to the top of the screen for > > my menus all the time. > > I'm sorry, but the single menu bar at the top of the screen is the > Right Way (tm) to do it. I can always find it, even if I'm not > looking at the screen. I use linux, windows, and mac os x about > equally right now, and I can't tell you how much I wish for a > single menu bar in ubuntu. If you want the single menu bar in Linux, KDE will happily accommodate you. It's in the KDE Control Center, Desktop>>Behavior - Menu Bat at Top of Screen, select "Current application's menu bar (MacOS style)". -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 23:39:09 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 18:39:09 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <200702071834.59235.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <200702071834.59235.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <200702071839.09452.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Wednesday 07 February 2007 18:34, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On Wednesday 07 February 2007 15:06, Michael MacLeod wrote: > > On 2/6/07, ted leslie wrote: > > > On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 12:12 -0500, Aaron Vegh wrote: > > > But there are two things that I think are brain dead on a Mac, > > > 1) why is every apps tool bar on the very top of the screen, > > > I have been an apple user since about 1981, and certainly when > > > i got my first 128MB Mac, with only running a few apps, and a > > > small screen, having a common top pull down menu panel was OK. > > > Fast forward to this century, and people have 20-30 > > > apps/windows open, and i don't want to be going to the top of > > > the screen for my menus all the time. > > > > I'm sorry, but the single menu bar at the top of the screen is > > the Right Way (tm) to do it. I can always find it, even if I'm > > not looking at the screen. I use linux, windows, and mac os x > > about equally right now, and I can't tell you how much I wish for > > a single menu bar in ubuntu. > > If you want the single menu bar in Linux, KDE will happily > accommodate you. It's in the KDE Control Center, Desktop>>Behavior > - Menu Bat at Top of Screen, select "Current application's menu bar > (MacOS style)". Menu Bat? What was I thinking? -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 7 23:55:22 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 18:55:22 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <20070208000718.GC20177-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45CA54FD.7040904@rogers.com> <20070208000718.GC20177@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <200702071855.23088.softquake@gmail.com> On Wednesday 07 February 2007 19:07, John Macdonald wrote: > On Wed, Feb 07, 2007 at 05:38:53PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > > John Macdonald wrote: > > > On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 11:57:08PM -0500, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > >> Schrodinger is a something. I am 10 years after doing physics but I > > >> can not forget Schrodinger equation. Now, I have Schrodinger's cats > > >> around! They are with me all the time. > > > > > > Schrodinger's cats would both be with you all the time > > > and not with you ever. > > > > How much cat food would you need? ;-) > > A lot. The cats would always be there when the food was > available and not there when it isn't. Even a worser scenario is possible. If cats behave like bosons, they may undergo a quantum phase transition and condense into Bose-Einstein state. Such a state would attract other cats around. It is however an interesting analogy. Here the food plays a role of an interaction that actually does not occour between cats directely, however, that interaction is mediated by the presence of food. In other words, food plays a role of, let say, of interaction like between phonons and electrons. And while electrons repulse each other, in certain situations they can bind together into Cooper pairs and create a superconductive state. Better do not feed these cats at all.. Food besides can attract dogs as well. I would prefer not to see dogs condensed into a superfluid state... They would all behave like one. They would flow through the windows, doors, regardles of gravitation. They could flow out through chimney, all of them behaving like one super-dog. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 00:30:13 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 19:30:13 -0500 Subject: Trouble in LVM land In-Reply-To: <20070207173129.GL7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200702071219.24329.mervc@eol.ca> <20070207173129.GL7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200702071930.13698.mervc@eol.ca> On Wednesday 07 February 2007 12:31, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Feb 07, 2007 at 12:19:23PM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > > Well my good experience with LVM didn't last long. > > > > > > To complicate things I extended videolv01 with hdb. I doubt that > > anything has been written to hdb yet since I haven't done much TV > > watching. I don't know if the trouble might be caused by hdb or not. Can > > I just disconnect hdb? > > If hdb isn't working, perhaps it can't start the videovg. What does > vgdisplay say? All parts of a volume group must be present to access > any of it. VGs spanning multiple devices run the same risks as raid0 in > that you loose one device, you loose it all. Generally it is recomended > that all physical volumes in LVM run raid1 or higher. That is how I run > all my LVMs (raid1 devices as the PVs for everything). > I guess I wasn't clear enough. The booting procedure reaches the point where udev starts and it first reports /dev/rootvg/rootlv01 clean xxx files xxxx blocks /boot clean xxx files xxxblocks the next group of lines report no such device or file /dev/videovg/videolv01 etc etc the videovg group is just data for mythtv. The boot procedure stops as usual and there is the usual ' Type Control-D to continue' but when the mtce shell is exited, the computer reboots. I have found that the new Ubuntu finds errors with every drive I have on 4 systems and I see this error regularly. Suse 10.2, FC-6, Debian, Mepis, and Kanotix (Debian) never seem to see a problem. I am used to this Control-D message and exiting the shell. I can issue no commands, since booting never finishes. This has been running just fine, and had rebooted a number of times with no problems. There are no other distro's on the system which is FC-5 based incidentally. I could use a liveCD to look at the drive, 'cept I have no clue what to look for. Does that help, or do I just re-install? Which might be quicker and less edifying. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 01:08:29 2007 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 20:08:29 -0500 Subject: Linux and Religion In-Reply-To: <401931.42738.qm-fjYszm/wOJWB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <401931.42738.qm@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45CA780D.401@sympatico.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: >Well, let's start with parameters. The problem with a >lot of events is they tend to be held in places where >unless you are already a Linux fan you will not hear >about the event (to continue with the Religion theme, >it is like that old expression "preaching to the >choir"). 5th floor of a UofT building may be easy to >get to, but it isn't going to attract the casual >computer user that we would like to reach. So, first >point is we want a venue that is VERY public, say >corner of Bloor/Yonge? Nathan Phillip Square? or >Dundas Square? Sort of place that attracts people... > If it stays cold enough 'till then, we may be able to get an ice house real cheap :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 01:12:01 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 20:12:01 -0500 Subject: Trouble in LVM land In-Reply-To: <200702071930.13698.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200702071219.24329.mervc@eol.ca> <20070207173129.GL7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200702071930.13698.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <1170897123.3593.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 19:30 -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > I guess I wasn't clear enough. The booting procedure reaches the point where > udev starts and it first reports > > /dev/rootvg/rootlv01 clean xxx files xxxx blocks > /boot clean xxx files xxxblocks > > the next group of lines report > > no such device or file /dev/videovg/videolv01 etc etc > > the videovg group is just data for mythtv. The boot procedure stops as > usual and there is the usual ' Type Control-D to continue' but when the mtce > shell is exited, the computer reboots. > > I have found that the new Ubuntu finds errors with every drive I have on 4 > systems and I see this error regularly. Suse 10.2, FC-6, Debian, Mepis, and > Kanotix (Debian) never seem to see a problem. I am used to this Control-D > message and exiting the shell. > > I can issue no commands, since booting never finishes. This has been running > just fine, and had rebooted a number of times with no problems. There are no > other distro's on the system which is FC-5 based incidentally. > > I could use a liveCD to look at the drive, 'cept I have no clue what to look > for. > > Does that help, or do I just re-install? Which might be quicker and less > edifying. At the Ctrl-D prompt you should be typing the root user's password and pressing enter. This will log you into a shell where you will be able to type commands. While in this shell you should be able to run commands like: vgscan vgdisplay On some rescue shells you would prefix the command with lvm, e.g.: lvm vgdisplay >From the error you mention, "No such device or file", indicates that device file is not there. This could be because the volume group is not active or it was misspelled. Here are the steps that you need to do and before you do them MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHICH DEVICES ARE USED FOR FILE SYSTEMS AND WHICH ARE IN VOLUME GROUPS. These commands may delete data from your disks if you use them incorrectly. 1. Make sure that the physical devices are visible. Use 'sfdisk -l' to list disks and partitions. If that's not there try 'fdisk -l'. If you can see the disks then that's your problem. Check disk connections, controllers, etc and replace the disk if needed. 2. Ensure that each device is properly setup as an LVM physical volume (PV). Use 'pvdisplay /dev/hda1', 'pvdisplay /dev/hda2', etc to make sure each disk looks good. If pvdisplay gives an error it's possible that a) a file system was created directly on the partition (like a /boot partition) or the physical volume was created on the whole disk device (e.g. hdb instead of hdb1.) NOTE: You almost certanly didn't create a PV on /dev/hda. 3. Make sure that the volume groups are active. Run 'vgdisplay videovg'. You should see interesting output. If you don't then the volume group is not active. If steps 1 and 2 work then this step should work. If you can't see the VG then try to activate it 'vgchange -a y videovg'. Alternatively, maybe it was misspelled. Try 'vgdisplay' and see if it is displayed. 4. The file system may simply need to be checked. I'm going to assume you are using an ext3 file system. IF YOU AREN'T then don't use this command. Run 'e2fsck /dev/videovg/videolv01' answer 'y' to all questions. If you are willing to abandon this file system and re-create. You could also choose to recreate the LV or even the VG. 5. Finally try to mount the file system. It may be that /etc/fstab has the wrong file system type listed and refuses to mount it. Run "mount /dev/videovg/videolv01 /mnt". The command should run without error and your file system should be mounted on /mnt. Run 'ls /mnt' to see if you can see your files. Then run 'umount /mnt' to unmount it. Good luck. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 03:01:01 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 22:01:01 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <200702071855.23088.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45CA54FD.7040904@rogers.com> <20070208000718.GC20177@lupus.perlwolf.com> <200702071855.23088.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070207220101.54eb9095@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 18:55:22 -0500 Zbigniew Koziol got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > On Wednesday 07 February 2007 19:07, John Macdonald wrote: > > On Wed, Feb 07, 2007 at 05:38:53PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > > > John Macdonald wrote: > > > > On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 11:57:08PM -0500, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > > >> Schrodinger is a something. I am 10 years after doing physics but I > > > >> can not forget Schrodinger equation. Now, I have Schrodinger's cats > > > >> around! They are with me all the time. > > > > > > > > Schrodinger's cats would both be with you all the time > > > > and not with you ever. > > > > > > How much cat food would you need? ;-) > > > > A lot. The cats would always be there when the food was > > available and not there when it isn't. > > Even a worser scenario is possible. If cats behave like bosons, they may > undergo a quantum phase transition and condense into Bose-Einstein state. LOL! Aaaaah, now this is a fun thread again... > Such a state would attract other cats around. It is however an interesting > analogy. Here the food plays a role of an interaction that actually does not > occour between cats directely, however, that interaction is mediated by the > presence of food. In other words, food plays a role of, let say, of > interaction like between phonons and electrons. And while electrons repulse > each other, in certain situations they can bind together into Cooper pairs > and create a superconductive state. And it's been bloody cold enough in my damn basement to keep them like that. Would superconductivity negate the hellacious hatred that cats seem to have for each other though? > Better do not feed these cats at all.. Food besides can attract dogs as well. > I would prefer not to see dogs condensed into a superfluid state... They > would all behave like one. They would flow through the windows, doors, > regardles of gravitation. They could flow out through chimney, all of them > behaving like one super-dog. A dog able to run on walls like Neo? No thanks. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: I believe that qualifies as ill. At least from a technical standpoint. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 03:22:46 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 22:22:46 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <20070207220101.54eb9095-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <200702071855.23088.softquake@gmail.com> <20070207220101.54eb9095@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <200702072222.46513.softquake@gmail.com> On Wednesday 07 February 2007 22:01, JoeHill wrote: > On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 18:55:22 -0500 > > Zbigniew Koziol got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > On Wednesday 07 February 2007 19:07, John Macdonald wrote: > > > On Wed, Feb 07, 2007 at 05:38:53PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > > > > John Macdonald wrote: > > > > > On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 11:57:08PM -0500, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > > > >> Schrodinger is a something. I am 10 years after doing physics but > > > > >> I can not forget Schrodinger equation. Now, I have Schrodinger's > > > > >> cats around! They are with me all the time. > > > > > > > > > > Schrodinger's cats would both be with you all the time > > > > > and not with you ever. > > > > > > > > How much cat food would you need? ;-) > > > > > > A lot. The cats would always be there when the food was > > > available and not there when it isn't. > > > > Even a worser scenario is possible. If cats behave like bosons, they may > > undergo a quantum phase transition and condense into Bose-Einstein state. > > LOL! Aaaaah, now this is a fun thread again... > > > Such a state would attract other cats around. It is however an > > interesting analogy. Here the food plays a role of an interaction that > > actually does not occour between cats directely, however, that > > interaction is mediated by the presence of food. In other words, food > > plays a role of, let say, of interaction like between phonons and > > electrons. And while electrons repulse each other, in certain situations > > they can bind together into Cooper pairs and create a superconductive > > state. > > And it's been bloody cold enough in my damn basement to keep them like > that. Would superconductivity negate the hellacious hatred that cats seem > to have for each other though? Not superconductivity per se. The hatred would be negated by food that attracts each of them. They start to bahave like they liked each other. For instance they start to run after each other around the food, in a circle. Forming in that way a Cooper pair. Other cats, to be able to participate in this game, have no choice but to enter the same race, one after another, around the same food. In that way these "Cooper pairs" condense into a superfluid state. They all start to behave like one. All pairs of cats, it looks like, attract each other. The catastrophe is unavoidable. They are going likely to pass a quantum phase transition. Become one entity. I do not think that penguins would behave differently in a similar situation, forming possibly a quantum macroscopic super-penguin, or just a super-Linux, a new state of virtual matter. zb. > > Better do not feed these cats at all.. Food besides can attract dogs as > > well. I would prefer not to see dogs condensed into a superfluid state... > > They would all behave like one. They would flow through the windows, > > doors, regardles of gravitation. They could flow out through chimney, all > > of them behaving like one super-dog. > > A dog able to run on walls like Neo? No thanks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 03:26:41 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 22:26:41 -0500 Subject: Linux and Religion In-Reply-To: <45CA25C0.60900-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <200702071035.17501.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <45CA25C0.60900@mathstat.yorku.ca> Message-ID: On 2/7/07, Mike Oliver wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > > > This sort of thing applies identically with the following assorted > > substitutions: > > > > s/religion/football team/g > > s/religion/operating system/g > > s/religion/US political party/g > > Why *US* political party? Y'all's parties > aren't like that? No, US political stripes are bizarrely exclusionary in their membership this way. A lot of Canadians aren't too keen on GWB; generally tend to be a bit too much on the "left wing of the bird" to consider positions consistent with the Republicans. But Americans are *deeply* divided in this manner, and have been for a terribly long time. Democrats couldn't *imagine* voting Republican, and vice-versa. And it tends to get passed on by the regional culture. One bizarreness is that Texas, now "Bush Country," and a place that is, indeed, very Republican in its voting preferences, has seen a sort of "sea change" take place over the last 20 or so years. Back in the day, Texas was *absolutely* Democrat territory. LBJ was from there; Texans, while seemingly "independence-oriented," aren't terribly independently minded, politically, and no right-thinking Texan in the '60s would have voted for a Republican. The periodic oddity to US politics is that the parties actually reshape themselves, over time, which has led to, in the Texas case, a complete switch. There are VERY large sets of Americans that lack the imaginativeness to consider the 'other party,' whichever that one might be. In contrast, Canada has seen *much* higher variations in what parties people have been willing to consider. There was the shift from the Progressive Conservatives winning their largest ever majority (*clearly* involving people voting for them) to them being all but eliminated in the House. Half of the remaining PCs quit the party, as Jean Charest took over the Quebec Liberal Party in a successful bid to become premier of Quebec, effectively eliminating the party that had clearly seen the majority of the votes. We have watched Canadian voters bouncing from party to party ever since. In particular, there have been substantial bounces of voters between the Liberals, New Conservatives, and NDP. In the US, it's fairly much guaranteed that "voters of color" will vote Democrat; they fairly much can't imagine voting Republican. The traditional equivalent, in Canada, is that immigrant groups, who commonly came in under the auspices of Liberal policies, were amongst the strongest Liberal supporters. Unlike in the US situation, apparently their imaginations were open enough that when they got offended by corruption surrounding the Liberal party, some in fact did migrate to other parties. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 03:44:33 2007 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Mike Oliver) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 19:44:33 -0800 Subject: Linux and Religion In-Reply-To: References: <200702071035.17501.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <45CA25C0.60900@mathstat.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <45CA9CA1.7040608@mathstat.yorku.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 2/7/07, Mike Oliver wrote: > >> Christopher Browne wrote: >> >> > This sort of thing applies identically with the following assorted >> > substitutions: >> > >> > s/religion/football team/g >> > s/religion/operating system/g >> > s/religion/US political party/g >> >> Why *US* political party? Y'all's parties >> aren't like that? > > But Americans are *deeply* divided in this manner, and have been for a > terribly long time. Democrats couldn't *imagine* voting Republican, > and vice-versa. That isn't really true. Sure, there are lots of people with that sort of party loyalty, but there are also lots who aren't. My experience in Canada was that Canadians think they are very different from Americans but are, in fact, not. Yes, the political center is shifted a bit, but that's about it; on most other matters they are very similar. The biggest difference I noted was that they struck me as a little touchier if you said the wrong thing. But that could be more an East/West distinction than North/South. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 06:56:18 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 01:56:18 -0500 Subject: [OT] Another unconventional http address Message-ID: <45CA8342.24743.504B42@sciguy.vex.net> >From the "stupid browser tricks" department: About a year ago (possibly longer) I mentioned that some spammers were using what I had thought were interesting, such as entering a long integer where the IP address (or, more generally, a web address) ought to be, such as: http://10000000003328/ (probably doesn't lead anywhere, but is just an example). I have a new one, from a apammer. This website appears to have a RedHat Apache placeholder page: http://0xc8.0x2b.0x50.0x74/ That is the first time I had seen anyone use hex digits for a web URL. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 07:34:01 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 08 Feb 2007 02:34:01 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <20070207140232.GF7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <1170792679.3332.316.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070206230403.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45C90E5F.4010809@telly.org> <20070207140232.GF7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) writes: > On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 07:26:47PM -0500, Tim Writer wrote: > > Unfortunately, Cisco chose to "upgrade" the Linksys WRT54GS so that it's no > > longer compatible with Linux. Instead, they came out with the WRT54L with > > half the flash and half the RAM so that it's nowhere near as versatile. > > Fortunately, there are other manufacturers that make routers which are > > compatible with the OpenWRT firmware. See this page for complete list: > > > > http://wiki.openwrt.org/TableOfHardware > > > > Note that I'm still using an older WRT54GS and have no direct experience > > with some of the other models. > > The WRT54GL is identical to the WRT54G v4, which had full ram, and such, > and it still runs linux and is still flashable to whichever you want. According to the above page, the WRT54GL and WRT54G v4 have 4MB RAM and 16MB of flash. > The WRT54G v5 and above, and I believe the WRT54GS v2 and above are both > stripped down, and running vmworks, and according to reviews they are > amazingly crappy routers compared to the linux based versions. I agree about the WRT54G v5. The WRT54GS v1 through v3 all have 8MB RAM, 32MB flash, and are supported by OpenWRT, i.e. can run Linux. I'm running Asterisk with decent voice quality on my WRT54GS v2. > I am amazed that a few MB or ram and flash can save enough money to pay > a license for vmworks, and still supposedly come out cheaper to produce. > Weird. Don't you mean vxworks? -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 07:56:35 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 08 Feb 2007 02:56:35 -0500 Subject: Trouble in LVM land In-Reply-To: <1170897123.3593.57.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <200702071219.24329.mervc@eol.ca> <20070207173129.GL7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200702071930.13698.mervc@eol.ca> <1170897123.3593.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: John Van Ostrand writes: > On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 19:30 -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > > I guess I wasn't clear enough. The booting procedure reaches the point where > > udev starts and it first reports > > > > /dev/rootvg/rootlv01 clean xxx files xxxx blocks > > /boot clean xxx files xxxblocks > > > > the next group of lines report > > > > no such device or file /dev/videovg/videolv01 etc etc > > > > the videovg group is just data for mythtv. The boot procedure stops as > > usual and there is the usual ' Type Control-D to continue' but when the mtce > > shell is exited, the computer reboots. > > > > I have found that the new Ubuntu finds errors with every drive I have on 4 > > systems and I see this error regularly. Suse 10.2, FC-6, Debian, Mepis, and > > Kanotix (Debian) never seem to see a problem. I am used to this Control-D > > message and exiting the shell. > > > > I can issue no commands, since booting never finishes. This has been running > > just fine, and had rebooted a number of times with no problems. There are no > > other distro's on the system which is FC-5 based incidentally. > > > > I could use a liveCD to look at the drive, 'cept I have no clue what to look > > for. > > > > Does that help, or do I just re-install? Which might be quicker and less > > edifying. > > At the Ctrl-D prompt you should be typing the root user's password and > pressing enter. This will log you into a shell where you will be able to > type commands. > > While in this shell you should be able to run commands like: > > vgscan > vgdisplay > > On some rescue shells you would prefix the command with lvm, e.g.: > > lvm vgdisplay > > >From the error you mention, "No such device or file", indicates that > device file is not there. This could be because the volume group is not > active or it was misspelled. > > Here are the steps that you need to do and before you do them MAKE SURE > YOU KNOW WHICH DEVICES ARE USED FOR FILE SYSTEMS AND WHICH ARE IN VOLUME > GROUPS. These commands may delete data from your disks if you use them > incorrectly. > > 1. Make sure that the physical devices are visible. Use 'sfdisk -l' to > list disks and partitions. If that's not there try 'fdisk -l'. If you > can see the disks then that's your problem. Check disk connections, You meant "can't". > controllers, etc and replace the disk if needed. > > 2. Ensure that each device is properly setup as an LVM physical volume > (PV). Use 'pvdisplay /dev/hda1', 'pvdisplay /dev/hda2', etc to make sure > each disk looks good. If pvdisplay gives an error it's possible that a) > a file system was created directly on the partition (like a /boot > partition) or the physical volume was created on the whole disk device > (e.g. hdb instead of hdb1.) NOTE: You almost certanly didn't create a PV > on /dev/hda. You can also try pvscan. You should see all your PVs. > 3. Make sure that the volume groups are active. Run 'vgdisplay videovg'. > You should see interesting output. If you don't then the volume group is > not active. If steps 1 and 2 work then this step should work. If you > can't see the VG then try to activate it 'vgchange -a y videovg'. > Alternatively, maybe it was misspelled. Try 'vgdisplay' and see if it is > displayed. > > 4. The file system may simply need to be checked. I'm going to assume > you are using an ext3 file system. IF YOU AREN'T then don't use this > command. Run 'e2fsck /dev/videovg/videolv01' answer 'y' to all > questions. If you are willing to abandon this file system and re-create. > You could also choose to recreate the LV or even the VG. > > 5. Finally try to mount the file system. It may be that /etc/fstab has > the wrong file system type listed and refuses to mount it. Run > "mount /dev/videovg/videolv01 /mnt". The command should run without > error and your file system should be mounted on /mnt. Run 'ls /mnt' to > see if you can see your files. Then run 'umount /mnt' to unmount it. If you think you've lost a PV (i.e. step 2 above didn't work), see the instructions REPLACING PHYSICAL VOLUMES in the vgcfgrestore man page. If all else fails, you can try restoring your volume group descriptor area using vgcfgrestore. You should run these commands with the --test option first. Good luck. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 11:41:52 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 06:41:52 -0500 Subject: [OT] Another unconventional http address In-Reply-To: <45CA8342.24743.504B42-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <45CA8342.24743.504B42@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <1e55af990702080341q1bdc2d5cya696f7281f3eb086@mail.gmail.com> On 2/8/07, Paul King wrote: > That is the first time I had seen anyone use hex digits for a web URL. I once saw a one-character .com URL. x.com where x was some kind of odd extended/international character that I can't remember.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 13:01:43 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 08:01:43 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu Ice House: Repeat Event Today! In-Reply-To: <200702071855.23088.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <45CA54FD.7040904@rogers.com> <20070208000718.GC20177@lupus.perlwolf.com> <200702071855.23088.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45CB1F37.9050600@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Better do not feed these cats at all.. Food besides can attract dogs as well. > I would prefer not to see dogs condensed into a superfluid state... They > would all behave like one. They would flow through the windows, doors, > regardles of gravitation. They could flow out through chimney, all of them > behaving like one super-dog. > > There seems to be some temporal distortion occurring too. You appear to have sent your reply to John at 6:55 PM, which is before he posted at 7:07. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 13:42:38 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 08:42:38 -0500 Subject: Linux and Religion In-Reply-To: References: <200702071035.17501.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <45CA25C0.60900@mathstat.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <20070208084238.6a509d61@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 22:26:41 -0500 Christopher Browne got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > (*clearly* involving people voting for them) Aaaaaah, took me two times to catch that...nice :-) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: I get a good vibe from this place. Nice long dinner table, quiet well-behaved spiders, graveyards adjacent.... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 13:45:24 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 08:45:24 -0500 Subject: Linux and Religion In-Reply-To: <20070207200529.GN7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200702071035.17501.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <45CA25C0.60900@mathstat.yorku.ca> <20070207200529.GN7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070208084524.2ac080f1@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 15:05:29 -0500 Lennart Sorensen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > On Wed, Feb 07, 2007 at 11:17:20AM -0800, Mike Oliver wrote: > > Why *US* political party? Y'all's parties > > aren't like that? > > No they aren't. People in most countries are willing to change their > government if it isn't doing a good job. Parties can go from major to > not even official party status in a single election. The US seems to > have gotten stuck with the idea that there are only two parties, and > nothing else can ever have a chance. Of course as long as nobody thinks > anything else has a chance they won't vote for anything else, which is > just silly. A lot of countries have so many parties that you can't ever > get a single party with a majority, they have to form coalitions of 5 or > 6 parties to form a majority to govern. I believe the 2 party systems > is one of the biggest flaws of the US. Always makes me think of that line from the Blues Brothers, when they ask the proprietor of the redneck roadhouse what kind of music they prefer: "Oh, we got both kinds: Country *and* Western." -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "C'mon, it's just like making love. Y'know, left, down, rotate sixty-two degrees, engage rotors...." -Bender -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 13:52:10 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 08:52:10 -0500 Subject: Simple video editing? In-Reply-To: <45C98C67.5030803-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <45C98024.2010208@telly.org> <45C98C67.5030803@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <20070208085210.3d5cafa8@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 09:23:03 +0100 Christopher Friedt got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Using transcode it is very likely also possible to do this. Transcode > also links into the ffmpeg code if it's specified as a build option. > > There is also lots of documentation about transcode. > > http://www.transcoding.org/cgi-bin/transcode > > There are several methods of reducing the size of each of the movies. > You might also want to look into encoding the audio with a different > codec or using a slightly lower sampling rate (I usually find that 160 > kbps is more than enough for most films). > > You can also reduce the frequency of keyframes in the mpeg conversion I > think. > > Most of my use with transcode comes from using 'dvd::rip' (obviously for > encoding ... umm... all of those home-movies with my kids and whatnot... > what am i saying, i don't even have any kids) but I would recommend it > without hesitation. > > ~/Chris > > Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > I have two DIVX (.avi extension) video files. I want to reduce the size > > of them, by reducing the resolution, but also by chopping off the first > > and last few seconds of the clip. > > > > The former I think I can figure out using ffmpeg, but I'm not sure what > > to use for the the latter. > > I'd like to have a simple tool that could extract, for instance, the > > span from 1:15 to 59:45 out of a video. > > > > Any suggestions? Is ffmpeg the best tool for resizing? > > > > Thanks! > > > > - Evan Missed the original post, but transcode, mencoder, and ffmpeg and the like are great tools. One 'suite' that has made it dead easy to do exactly what you are asking about is the Tovid Suite, basically a collection of Python and shell scripts that pull all of these together to allow for custom encoding options from a simplified command line (or even a GUI if you like). Right from the encoding to some really sweet menu creation options (Todisc): http://tovid.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page I would really recommend getting the latest SVN, it's got some extra options that are just way too cool. Also, the developers will pretty much bend over backwards to help you, very accessible. Hell, they even tolerate me ;-) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: I get a good vibe from this place. Nice long dinner table, quiet well-behaved spiders, graveyards adjacent.... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 15:16:54 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 10:16:54 -0500 Subject: [OT] Another unconventional http address In-Reply-To: <45CA8342.24743.504B42-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <45CA8342.24743.504B42@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <45CB3EE6.8040605@rogers.com> Paul King wrote: > >From the "stupid browser tricks" department: > > About a year ago (possibly longer) I mentioned that some spammers were using > what I had thought were interesting, such as entering a long integer where the > IP address (or, more generally, a web address) ought to be, such as: > http://10000000003328/ (probably doesn't lead anywhere, but is just an > example). > > I have a new one, from a apammer. This website appears to have a RedHat Apache > placeholder page: http://0xc8.0x2b.0x50.0x74/ > > That is the first time I had seen anyone use hex digits for a web URL. > IPv6 uses hex. However bear in mind that hex, decimal, octal etc. are strictly for the convienence of humans. All the computers worry about is binary. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 15:28:16 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 16:28:16 +0100 Subject: Linux and Religion In-Reply-To: <200702071035.17501.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200702071035.17501.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <45CB4190.9000308@visible-assets.com> I haven't read what the Icehouse affair is, but I think this is a good analogy. Personally, I think that open source is great - i use nothing but open source software ... well, except adobe reader and my ati drivers. And there is definitely a huge number of people that will flame on about how linux beats microsoft hands down, or whatever... the truth is that bugs are inherent in any software... I could go on and on about how great open source software is actually, and love showing people how great linux works on my laptop, or on any of the the embedded devices I use it on ;-) What I don't do very often is say what I find lacking in open source software. The idea is always lingering in the back of my head. There is 1 main issue with open source software - or at least the 'bazaar' model of software development vs 'the cathedral'. That is, as the number of independently designed software systems increases, so does the inefficiency of the system as a whole. Code is re-used less - in ram and also in the design, people often re-invent the wheel, and subsequently introduce bugs into the system that could otherwise be avoided, and so on. That is probably a theorem somewhere in mathematic logic, proven by Church or Turing or Godel, or Hilber, or ... one of those guys. However, there are obviously factors working against that. 1) the developer/user community decides on what or who is best in each case - i.e. more often than not, there are excellent programmers working on the linux kernel, or Xorg, etc. and they are there because their talent has been appraised well. 2) non-developers are quite often highly valued simply for their excellent, non-technical opinions on aesthetic, performance, or useability. 3) most obviously, if software is garbage, people tend to use it less. Still, if a theorem's a theorem, then in theory it should be full-standing ... well, unless your theorem proves that it itself is not proveable. The linux kernel developers have done a fairly good job in refining their own tree to be more and more efficient as well. One could point out how great the Mac os X is, in terms of it's user interface / appearance, as well as what's running under the hood. I can't say much about the existence of Mac bugs, because I don't own a Mac. But what I can really appreciate about their software, is that it is very much 'unified', from an outward appearance. everything is fairly scrutinously tweaked, and you can tell that it was designed with the purpose of 'functioning _excellently_ as a whole' For those reasons, I really give a thumbs up to the BSD folks, and very, very, very rarely to the 'cathedral'. I find also that, using open source software in my work and contributing back to it as much as possible, sometimes I don't really have enough time to ensure that the stuff I give back is as efficient as I would hope it to be. Other times, I wish that all of the applications that I use, which for the most part are independent, had a tighter collective design, rather than being a 'patch-work quilt' ... Anyway, these are just things that I can remark on... but then again maybe I just have a religious conflict ;-) Or maybe I'm just software agnostic :) ~/Chris John Wildberger wrote: > What has Linux to do with Religion?. Nothing ! > And yet, I find myself thinking of how much the mindset of Linuxers has in > common with religious goals. > Let me list some of the similarities as they come to mind: > > -My religion is better than yours. My distro is better than yours. > -Any religion other than mine is evil. Any OS other than Linux should be > shunt. > -Close your mind to the doctrines and merits of other alternatives. > -Spread your believes by any means, regardless, if it is asked for or not. > -Be disparaging and disruptive of the endeavors of those outside your own > brand > > I could go on for more, but I am sure you get the drift. > The recent discussions on the "Icehouse affair" highlighted some of the above. > For the life of me, I cannot understand why people cannot accept the simple > concept of open source software in the spirit it was conceived. > Let the community work together to achieve the best result without being > slowed down by petty jealousies. > If you should find a particular distro to do the job, then be glad and tell > others why you think so, without forcing it on them or diparage other > distros. > The effort of spreading the gospel of Linux has a lot of merit for for those > who derive some financial gain by the increase of the number of Linux users. > For me it has the benefit of getting more information published, which in > turn will help the development of better distros. So, more power to those > people who weathered the cold in front of the Icehouse to get some Linux > publicity. > > John > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 15:29:28 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 10:29:28 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <1170792679.3332.316.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070206230403.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45C90E5F.4010809@telly.org> <20070207140232.GF7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1170948568.20007.25.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 02:34 -0500, Tim Writer wrote: > lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) writes: > > > The WRT54G v5 and above, and I believe the WRT54GS v2 and above are both > > stripped down, and running vmworks, and according to reviews they are > > amazingly crappy routers compared to the linux based versions. > > I agree about the WRT54G v5. The WRT54GS v1 through v3 all have 8MB RAM, > 32MB flash, and are supported by OpenWRT, i.e. can run Linux. I'm running > Asterisk with decent voice quality on my WRT54GS v2. hmm, so I bought a wrt54gl and now I am wondering whether the fact it runs linux is a pandora's box. Has anyone made a mod to this router that actually improves their quality of life? I'm worried I'll be excoriated for my sdupidity when I start breaking up our internet access... thx, m -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 15:42:34 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 10:42:34 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> <1170784172.8929.21.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <20070208154234.GO7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 07, 2007 at 03:54:52PM -0500, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > The right way to do it is to offer the user a choice. > > For those have have windows take focus whenever the mouse passes > over them, the single menu bar would not work. The amiga method would. You right click and the menu for the current window would appear, which you then select from, and release the button. The more common left click activated menus everything else seems to use now would not work well that way. Of course given how programmers all like to reinvent the wheel, I doubt they will be willing to give up control of their menus. Certainly since X applications are given a window to run in, and there is no concept of an external menu system, I doubt it would be easy if at all possible to implement the menu style of the amiga or mac, unless something like gnome or kde decides all their programs will use some new window manager feature for menus, but leaving all other X applications to handle their own menus. > I used an Amiga for 15 years before switching to Linux, and I > don't miss the single menu bar. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 15:56:37 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 10:56:37 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <1170792679.3332.316.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070206230403.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45C90E5F.4010809@telly.org> <20070207140232.GF7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070208155637.GP7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 08, 2007 at 02:34:01AM -0500, Tim Writer wrote: > According to the above page, the WRT54GL and WRT54G v4 have 4MB RAM and > 16MB of flash. You sure it's not 4MB flash and 16MB ram? That would make much more sense on an embedded system. > I agree about the WRT54G v5. The WRT54GS v1 through v3 all have 8MB RAM, > 32MB flash, and are supported by OpenWRT, i.e. can run Linux. I'm running > Asterisk with decent voice quality on my WRT54GS v2. Hmm, I thought the GS only had one version before the stripped it down. I must have misremembered. Certainly the extra ram and flash on the early GS models was nice, but they don't make those anymore and they don't make a WRT54GSL. > Don't you mean vxworks? Typo. Oops. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 15:58:07 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 10:58:07 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <1170948568.20007.25.camel@localhost> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <1170792679.3332.316.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070206230403.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45C90E5F.4010809@telly.org> <20070207140232.GF7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170948568.20007.25.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20070208155807.GQ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 08, 2007 at 10:29:28AM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > hmm, so I bought a wrt54gl and now I am wondering whether the fact it > runs linux is a pandora's box. Has anyone made a mod to this router > that actually improves their quality of life? I'm worried I'll be > excoriated for my sdupidity when I start breaking up our internet > access... The people who make replacement firmware says the GL is identical to the G v4 running linux and same hardware specs and all that. I haven't tried loading replacement firmware on one yet, although I may at some point do so on the one I got for my parents. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 16:19:12 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 08 Feb 2007 11:19:12 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <1170792679.3332.316.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070206230403.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45C90E5F.4010809@telly.org> <20070207140232.GF7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Tim Writer writes: > lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) writes: > > > On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 07:26:47PM -0500, Tim Writer wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Cisco chose to "upgrade" the Linksys WRT54GS so that it's no > > > longer compatible with Linux. Instead, they came out with the WRT54L with > > > half the flash and half the RAM so that it's nowhere near as versatile. > > > Fortunately, there are other manufacturers that make routers which are > > > compatible with the OpenWRT firmware. See this page for complete list: > > > > > > http://wiki.openwrt.org/TableOfHardware > > > > > > Note that I'm still using an older WRT54GS and have no direct experience > > > with some of the other models. > > > > The WRT54GL is identical to the WRT54G v4, which had full ram, and such, > > and it still runs linux and is still flashable to whichever you want. > > According to the above page, the WRT54GL and WRT54G v4 have 4MB RAM and > 16MB of flash. Sorry, that should be 16MB RAM and 4MB flash. > > The WRT54G v5 and above, and I believe the WRT54GS v2 and above are both > > stripped down, and running vmworks, and according to reviews they are > > amazingly crappy routers compared to the linux based versions. > > I agree about the WRT54G v5. The WRT54GS v1 through v3 all have 8MB RAM, > 32MB flash, and are supported by OpenWRT, i.e. can run Linux. I'm running > Asterisk with decent voice quality on my WRT54GS v2. And that should be 32MB RAM and 8MB flash. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 16:36:04 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 11:36:04 -0500 Subject: IM without a silo? Message-ID: <20070208163603.GC632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I've been using ICQ for instant messaging for a while, via gaim, and it works fine. However, I can't send or receive messages from people who use MSN or AOL or Yahoo! or anything else. This makes me sad. The question: Is there a way to have one IM setup that lets me send and receive IMs from people in different silos? I'm delighted to use Jabber, but I don't want to have to convince anyone else to use it, and I would prefer not to have to get an account in every silo to give me the illusion of interoperability. Is this doable? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 16:43:08 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 08 Feb 2007 11:43:08 -0500 Subject: router/printserver/printer recommendations In-Reply-To: <1170948568.20007.25.camel@localhost> References: <1170790219.5808.38.camel@localhost> <1170792679.3332.316.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <20070206230403.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45C90E5F.4010809@telly.org> <20070207140232.GF7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1170948568.20007.25.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Matt Price writes: > On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 02:34 -0500, Tim Writer wrote: > > lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) writes: > > > > > The WRT54G v5 and above, and I believe the WRT54GS v2 and above are both > > > stripped down, and running vmworks, and according to reviews they are > > > amazingly crappy routers compared to the linux based versions. > > > > I agree about the WRT54G v5. The WRT54GS v1 through v3 all have 8MB RAM, > > 32MB flash, and are supported by OpenWRT, i.e. can run Linux. I'm running > > Asterisk with decent voice quality on my WRT54GS v2. > > hmm, so I bought a wrt54gl and now I am wondering whether the fact it > runs linux is a pandora's box. Has anyone made a mod to this router > that actually improves their quality of life? I'm worried I'll be > excoriated for my sdupidity when I start breaking up our internet > access... The original G and later the GS ran Linux. They used a captive interface with minimal functionality that hid the power of Linux underneath. Cisco came out with the L when they moved the GS (and later models) to vxworks. I'm not sure why they did this but maybe they just wanted to keep the hobbyists interested. Or, maybe they had a large contract with a manufacturer. In terms of hardware features, the L is very like the G and should run OpenWRT without problems. Will it improve the quality of your life? That depends on how you define quality. The stock interface is easy to use but not very capable. For example, the LAN and the wireless LAN are bridged and you can't firewall the WLAN from the LAN. (This is like most low cost wireless routers, btw.) In order to secure your LAN, you have to use WPA etc. on the wireless side which is a PITA. OpenWRT allows you to have separate interfaces for the LAN, WLAN, and WAN, and to firewall them with iptables. In fact, you can split the LAN ports into separate interfaces so you can have as many as 6 independent interfaces (including the WLAN). (This depends on the Ethernet hardware and I'm not sure if it can be done on the L.) You can also install a VPN (OpenVPN), although performance isn't great, maxing out at about 1MB/sec. OpenWRT is like a mini Debian distro. If you're comfortable with the command line, dpkg, and apt, OpenWRT will be no trouble. Due to the limited RAM and flash available on the L, you'll be limited by what you can do. For example, you won't be able to install Asterisk. However, you will be able to build a capable little firewall which uses a lot less power than a conventional PC. If you like the idea, I stronly recommend you check out the OpenWRT pages at http://www.openwrt.org. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 16:43:24 2007 From: Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 11:43:24 -0500 Subject: IM without a silo? In-Reply-To: <20070208163603.GC632-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070208163603.GC632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: S29wZXRlIHdpbGwgYWxsb3cgeW91IHRvIGhhdmUgbXV0aXBsZSBhY2NvdW50cyBmcm9tIG11bHRp cGxlIHRyYW5zcG9ydHMsIA0KYnV0IHlvdSBhcmUgcmVxdWlyZWQgdG8gaGF2ZSBhbiBhY2NvdW50 IGZvciBlYWNoIHRyYW5zcG9ydC4NCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KDQpKYXNvbiBT aGVpbg0KTmV0d29yayBBZG1pbmlzdHJhdG9yIOKAkyBMaW51eCBTeXN0ZW1zDQpJb3ZhdGUgSGVh bHRoIFNjaWVuY2VzIEluYy4NCjUxMDAgU3BlY3RydW0gV2F5DQpNaXNzaXNzYXVnYSwgT04gTDRX IDVTMiANCiggOTA1ICkgLSA2NzggLSAzMTE5ICAgeCAzMTM2DQoxIC0gODg4IC0gMzM0IC0gNDQ0 OCwgICAgeCAzMTM2ICh0b2xsLWZyZWUpDQooIDQxNiApIC0gMjcyIC0gNzk5OCAgQmxhY2tiZXJy eQ0KamFzb24uc2hlaW5AaW92YXRlLmNvbSANCg0KQ3VzdG9tZXIgU2VydmljZS4gQ29sbGFib3Jh dGlvbi4gSW5ub3ZhdGlvbi4gRWZmaWNpZW5jeS4gDQpJb3ZhdGUncyBJbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBUZWNo bm9sb2d5IFRlYW0gDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCg0KQ09ORklERU5USUFMSVRZ IE5PVElDRTogDQpUSElTIEVMRUNUUk9OSUMgTUFJTCBUUkFOU01JU1NJT04gSVMgUFJJVklMRUdF RCBBTkQgQ09ORklERU5USUFMIEFORCBJUw0KSU5URU5ERUQgT05MWSBGT1IgVEhFIFJFVklFVyBP RiBUSEUgUEFSVFkgVE8gV0hPTSBJVCBJUyBBRERSRVNTRUQuIA0KVEhFIElORk9STUFUSU9OIENP TlRBSU5FRCBJTiBUSElTIEUtTUFJTCBJUyBDT05GSURFTlRJQUwgQU5EIElTIERJU0NMT1NFRA0K VE8gWU9VIFVOREVSIFRIRSBFWFBSRVNTIFVOREVSU1RBTkRJTkcgVEhBVCBZT1UgV0lMTCBOT1Qg RElTQ0xPU0UgSVQNCk9SIElUUyBDT05URU5UUyBUTyBBTlkgVEhJUkQgUEFSVFkgV0lUSE9VVCBU SEUgRVhQUkVTUyBXUklUVEVOIENPTlNFTlQNCk9GIEFOIEFVVEhPUklaRUQgT0ZGSUNFUiBPRiBJ T1ZBVEUgSEVBTFRIIFNDSUVOQ0VTIFNFUlZJQ0VTIElOQy4gSUYgWU9VDQpIQVZFIFJFQ0VJVkVE IFRISVMgVFJBTlNNSVNTSU9OIElOIEVSUk9SLCBQTEVBU0UgSU1NRURJQVRFTFkgUkVUVVJOIElU IA0KVE8gVEhFIFNFTkRFUi4NCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCg0K -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 17:03:43 2007 From: sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Steve Harvey) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 12:03:43 -0500 Subject: Linux and Religion In-Reply-To: <45CA780D.401-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <401931.42738.qm@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <45CA780D.401@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20070208170343.GI91169@shell.vex.net> On Wed, Feb 07, 2007 at 08:08:29PM -0500, John Moniz wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > > >Well, let's start with parameters. The problem with a > >lot of events is they tend to be held in places where > >unless you are already a Linux fan you will not hear > >about the event (to continue with the Religion theme, > >it is like that old expression "preaching to the > >choir"). 5th floor of a UofT building may be easy to > >get to, but it isn't going to attract the casual > >computer user that we would like to reach. So, first > >point is we want a venue that is VERY public, say > >corner of Bloor/Yonge? Nathan Phillip Square? or > >Dundas Square? Sort of place that attracts people... > > > If it stays cold enough 'till then, we may be able to get an ice house > real cheap :-) > It's gone. Monday evening I went to check it out and all I found was an empty square with what looked like bulldozer tracks in the snow. I thought an interesting discussion might have ensued had I told them that I was a Microsoft user back in 1984/5 (Xenix). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 17:23:00 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 12:23:00 -0500 Subject: IM without a silo? In-Reply-To: <20070208163603.GC632-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070208163603.GC632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070208172300.GR7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 08, 2007 at 11:36:04AM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I've been using ICQ for instant messaging for a while, via gaim, and it > works fine. However, I can't send or receive messages from people who > use MSN or AOL or Yahoo! or anything else. This makes me sad. > > The question: Is there a way to have one IM setup that lets me send and > receive IMs from people in different silos? I'm delighted to use > Jabber, but I don't want to have to convince anyone else to use it, and > I would prefer not to have to get an account in every silo to give me > the illusion of interoperability. Is this doable? Thanks. I have no problem with yahoo using gaim (although it has to be a fairly recent version to work, since yahoo keeps changing the protocol). I know people using it with msn successfully too, with the same issues as yahoo. I use it with jabber as well (google's IM). If you aren't running gaim 2.x you probably won't be able to do yahoo or msn. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 19:26:16 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 14:26:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: Mythtery: Rogers Cable channel lineup changes for Toronto Message-ID: Rogers has changed their conventional cable TV channel lineup in Toronto. Zap2it Labs and MythTV do not adjust to the change automatically. Here's what worked for me: Log into your Zap2it labs account. Ask to "modify" your channel selection. Don't bother to make changes, but "update" it. Then ask to "modify" again. The new channels will appear. Adjust your selections and "update" again. On your MythTV box, manually do a mythfilldatabase. I actually did two: mythfilldatabase --do-channel-updates mythfilldatabase --refresh-all Perhaps these could be combined. I got hints from http://bb.labs.zap2it.com/viewtopic.php?t=1138 See also http://www.shoprogers.com/store/cable/ptv/programming/channel_lineups2.asp?SystemID=1&province=ON&cityName=1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 21:48:39 2007 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 16:48:39 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? Message-ID: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> Canonical Ltd., the sponsor of Ubuntu, and Linspire Inc. the developer of Linspire and Freespire, on February 8 announced a technology partnership to integrate with each other's Linux distributions. http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7103672739.html The Linspire Canonical Partnership FAQ: http://wiki.freespire.org/index.php/Linspire_Canonical_Partnership_FAQ Ubuntu/CNR Integrated Packaging System diagram: http://media.linspire.com/cnr/images/CNR-system2.jpg Perhaps the technology partnership announced by Kevin Carmony and Mark Shuttleworth will foster "advancing and unifying the Linux desktop" and "offer differentiation and choice, while reducing fragmentation" (Carmony) "based on sharing and collaboration" "rather than duplicating that work" (Shuttleworth). Perhaps it will encourage the Ubuntu fanboyz to work with TLUG as a SIG and embrace cooperation to benefit all from the combined experience, wisdom, and resources. Perhaps not. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 22:08:02 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 17:08:02 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <45CB9AB7.6060700-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> Message-ID: <1170972482.20020.5.camel@stan64.site> http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/cancomical-lynchpad the paranoid angle. -tl On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 16:48 -0500, George Nicol wrote: > Canonical Ltd., the sponsor of Ubuntu, and Linspire Inc. the developer > of Linspire and Freespire, on February 8 announced a technology > partnership to integrate with each other's Linux distributions. > http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7103672739.html > > The Linspire Canonical Partnership FAQ: > http://wiki.freespire.org/index.php/Linspire_Canonical_Partnership_FAQ > > Ubuntu/CNR Integrated Packaging System diagram: > http://media.linspire.com/cnr/images/CNR-system2.jpg > > Perhaps the technology partnership announced by Kevin Carmony and Mark > Shuttleworth will foster "advancing and unifying the Linux desktop" and > "offer differentiation and choice, while reducing fragmentation" > (Carmony) "based on sharing and collaboration" "rather than duplicating > that work" (Shuttleworth). > > Perhaps it will encourage the Ubuntu fanboyz to work with TLUG as a SIG > and embrace cooperation to benefit all from the combined experience, > wisdom, and resources. > > Perhaps not. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 22:22:38 2007 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 17:22:38 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <45CB9AB7.6060700-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> Message-ID: <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> On 08/02/2007 George Nicol wrote: > Perhaps not. Yeah I don't think the Linux desktop is ever going to be reality. It goes back to understanding what the market that uses Graphical Desktops want. Marketing for normal everyday users, as opposed to hacker culture needs. Nothing wrong with hacker culture though. Apple has spent litterally millions on getting it pretty close to what users actually want and like (although not perfect). I don't see Ubuntu being the solution either. I've been using Linux for probably a decade or little more (mainly as server OS). There just isn't the full suite of applications that I need to use on a daily basis for the Linux desktop to be reality where I work or at my home. Like another poster suggested earlier this week, the desktop application suite has to be developed for Linux, in order for the desktop to be even a good sell to most people. Unfortuantely that will require copious proprietary products being supported by vendors for Linux. I don't see that happening. :( __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 22:26:49 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 17:26:49 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <45CB9AB7.6060700-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> Message-ID: <45CBA3A9.3080507@utoronto.ca> George Nicol wrote: > Perhaps it will encourage the Ubuntu fanboyz to work with TLUG as a SIG > and embrace cooperation to benefit all from the combined experience, > wisdom, and resources. Fanboyz is certainly the term of endearment needed to get said fans on board. Perhaps a little less gender bias would be a first step to not putting up a barrier as there are female Ubuntu users who participate in the biweekly meetings and contribute to Ubuntu development. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 23:15:12 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 18:15:12 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <45CB9AB7.6060700-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> Message-ID: <45CBAF00.1050803@telly.org> Maybe it's just me, or maybe a Canadian thing or an age thing, but it's going to be hard for me to change the mindset that CNR refers to trains. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 23:22:03 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 18:22:03 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <45CBA2AE.6030207-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <20070208182203.381eafbd@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 17:22:38 -0500 Stephen Allen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > On 08/02/2007 George Nicol wrote: > > Perhaps not. > > Yeah I don't think the Linux desktop is ever going to be reality. It > goes back to understanding what the market that uses Graphical Desktops > want. Marketing for normal everyday users, as opposed to hacker > culture needs. Nothing wrong with hacker culture though. Oh, well, I'm sure the millions of hackers who handed you the Linux kernel for free the last ten years are relieved to hear that ;-) > Apple has spent litterally millions on getting it pretty close to what > users actually want and like (although not perfect). I don't see Ubuntu > being the solution either. Reasons? Facts? Any connection with reality whatsoever? Or just more 'I think therefore it is.'? > I've been using Linux for probably a decade or little more (mainly as > server OS). There just isn't the full suite of applications that I need > to use on a daily basis for the Linux desktop to be reality where I work > or at my home. Not yet. Five years ago it was a struggle for me to anything in terms of 'desktop' applications on Linux. Now I plug it in/install it, and it just works. Is that all of a sudden going to stop for some reason that I am unaware of? > Like another poster suggested earlier this week, the desktop application > suite has to be developed for Linux, in order for the desktop to be even > a good sell to most people. Unfortuantely that will require copious > proprietary products being supported by vendors for Linux. I don't see > that happening. :( Jeez, talk about religion. This is absolutely no different than 'As it was in the beginning, so shall it ever be'. Don't you guys ever get tired of spewing baseless assumptions? -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "Why would a robot need to drink?" -Fry "I don't need to drink, I can quit anytime I want." -Bender -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 23:32:23 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 00:32:23 +0100 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <45CBAF00.1050803-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBAF00.1050803@telly.org> Message-ID: <45CBB307.2080001@visible-assets.com> I have no idea what CNR stands for, aside from Canadian National Rail... what am I missing out on? ... oooohhhh... Click and Run... umm... how worthy of an abbreviation :) Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Maybe it's just me, or maybe a Canadian thing or an age thing, but it's > going to be hard for me to change the mindset that CNR refers to trains. > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jane-UlHtTOpGojasTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 23:41:05 2007 From: jane-UlHtTOpGojasTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Jane Zhang) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 18:41:05 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <45CBA3A9.3080507-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <45CBA3A9.3080507@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <001e01c74bda$99df2400$0300a8c0@Fred> :-) And here I am just about to chime in and sign up as a Ubuntu fangrrl... Thanks Jamon! Is Teddy MIA? Jane -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jamon Camisso Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 5:27 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? George Nicol wrote: > Perhaps it will encourage the Ubuntu fanboyz to work with TLUG as a SIG > and embrace cooperation to benefit all from the combined experience, > wisdom, and resources. Fanboyz is certainly the term of endearment needed to get said fans on board. Perhaps a little less gender bias would be a first step to not putting up a barrier as there are female Ubuntu users who participate in the biweekly meetings and contribute to Ubuntu development. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 23:55:23 2007 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 18:55:23 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <20070208182203.381eafbd-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <20070208182203.381eafbd@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <45CBB86B.9070802@yahoo.ca> JoeHill wrote: > On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 17:22:38 -0500 > Stephen Allen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: That attribution while funny the first time, gets old fast. >> Yeah I don't think the Linux desktop is ever going to be reality. It >> goes back to understanding what the market that uses Graphical Desktops >> want. Marketing for normal everyday users, as opposed to hacker >> culture needs. Nothing wrong with hacker culture though. > > Oh, well, I'm sure the millions of hackers who handed you the Linux kernel for > free the last ten years are relieved to hear that ;-) The kernel is Linux, and we're talking Linux desktops not the kernel. Nice try though at a strawman. >> Apple has spent litterally millions on getting it pretty close to what >> users actually want and like (although not perfect). I don't see Ubuntu >> being the solution either. > > Reasons? Facts? Any connection with reality whatsoever? Or just more 'I think > therefore it is.'? You doubt that Apple has spent millions on their desktop? I'm not sure what your point is, Joe. >> I've been using Linux for probably a decade or little more (mainly as >> server OS). There just isn't the full suite of applications that I need >> to use on a daily basis for the Linux desktop to be reality where I work >> or at my home. > > Not yet. Five years ago it was a struggle for me to anything in terms of > 'desktop' applications on Linux. Now I plug it in/install it, and it just > works. Is that all of a sudden going to stop for some reason that I am unaware > of? You haven't been paying attention. Applications come first and in the work world that uses desktops, Linux isn't there for a reason. There aren't many great applications that many people use daily that actually run on it, or run on it well. Until the Linux desktop is exposed to people in a work environment, there won't be any wide scale adoption of the Linux desktop in the home, therefore it won't improve to get to the stage that the others are. You're seriously in dreamland if you think otherwise. >> Like another poster suggested earlier this week, the desktop application >> suite has to be developed for Linux, in order for the desktop to be even >> a good sell to most people. Unfortuantely that will require copious >> proprietary products being supported by vendors for Linux. I don't see >> that happening. :( > > Jeez, talk about religion. This is absolutely no different than 'As it was in > the beginning, so shall it ever be'. Don't you guys ever get tired of spewing > baseless assumptions? > Joe it's called being pragmatic as opposed to being dogmatic. We all know that most Linux users are good at spouting dogma. ;) BTW just curious Joe, but have you ever rolled your own kernel? :-P __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 8 23:57:42 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 18:57:42 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <45CBA2AE.6030207-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <1170979062.20020.45.camel@stan64.site> On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 17:22 -0500, Stephen Allen wrote: > On 08/02/2007 George Nicol wrote: > > Perhaps not. > > Yeah I don't think the Linux desktop is ever going to be reality. It > goes back to understanding what the market that uses Graphical Desktops > want. Marketing for normal everyday users, as opposed to hacker > culture needs. Nothing wrong with hacker culture though. I agree if one restricts this to desktop thinking, but I think relatively soon (upto 10yrs) most cell phones, PDA, PVR, PS3/4, web appliances, TV's, even mobo bios will be Linux , so I am hoping that fact will just make it take off on the desktop, i.e. coming from a whole different angle. > > Apple has spent litterally millions on getting it pretty close to what > users actually want and like (although not perfect). I don't see Ubuntu > being the solution either. And whats really bad is that SUSE claims to have sat generic computer users down and done evaluations to build a easy to use system. They improved in some areas (i think) and actually got worse in others. With all the $$$ spent in Linux, you'd figure they could just sit down a nice population (statistical representation of) 5000 users, capture the issues they have and solve the issues, its not like its rock science, its just a bit of coin needed. What would it cost to have 5000 people submit to 160 hours of "monitoring"? at 16$/hr thats 12M$, someone just spend it (in the linux camp) and be done with it for pete's sake. > > I've been using Linux for probably a decade or little more (mainly as > server OS). There just isn't the full suite of applications that I need > to use on a daily basis for the Linux desktop to be reality where I work > or at my home. I'd be interested in what it is you use that you can't get on Linux ... I stopped using Windows 5+ years ago because it couldnt give me what I wanted, only Linux could. Win32 was a dead end for video capture tech. and programming development, and of course IE was totally screw'd. One thing that is interesting at my work, is that they just got a crackberry outlook express server thingy. And the installing company says to interface with it from Win desktop you need to go to the full 2003+ office suite, that has a outlook client to support corp. calendaring (or so they say). So i google and hopefully Evolution (windows client) for free will come to the rescue. If it does, i can hopefully steer another 10-15K$ away from Bills pocket. > > Like another poster suggested earlier this week, the desktop application > suite has to be developed for Linux, in order for the desktop to be even > a good sell to most people. Unfortuantely that will require copious > proprietary products being supported by vendors for Linux. I don't see > that happening. :( Hopefully the Fluendo example will start to change this. If adobe wasn't so dam screwed up, it would be a better situation. How such a completely useless company can have such a critical suite of products baffles me. The Flash 5 IDE product was a grade school computing class project at best. The slowness of flash for linux for years was costly to Linux, and the lack of photoshop, and to a lesser extent premier doesn't help. Personally it would be nice to see every Linux user ban adobe, but then that would drive some back to Windows just to get flash ability. Its a vicious cycle with adobe, someone has got to put them out of their misery. Gimpshop is great, and I can power my way to get what i used in Premier in Linux products, but no choice when it comes to going to a web site and having to view flash, for that I have to rely on those bastards. -tl > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 00:00:17 2007 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 19:00:17 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <45CBA3A9.3080507-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA3A9.3080507@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <45CBB991.4090704@primus.ca> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Fanboyz is certainly the term of endearment needed to get said fans on > board. Perhaps a little less gender bias would be a first step to not > putting up a barrier as there are female Ubuntu users who participate in > the biweekly meetings and contribute to Ubuntu development. Sorry. Ubuntu fanboyz'n'grrlz. Does such a term exist? I think everyone here knows the _group_ I was referring to. I simply reused the name that djp put forward in his invitation to join Saturday's action. Did you enlighten him as well? Nevertheless, I apologize. Now Jamon, Jane, and all the fanpplz, instead of pouncing on picayune points, reread the original post and join the conversation. I look forward to your constructive input. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 00:12:23 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 19:12:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now?y In-Reply-To: <45CBB86B.9070802-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <20070208182203.381eafbd@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45CBB86B.9070802@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Feb 2007, Stephen Allen wrote: ... >>> I've been using Linux for probably a decade or little more (mainly as >>> server OS). There just isn't the full suite of applications that I need >>> to use on a daily basis for the Linux desktop to be reality where I work >>> or at my home. >> >> Not yet. Five years ago it was a struggle for me to anything in terms of >> 'desktop' applications on Linux. Now I plug it in/install it, and it just >> works. Is that all of a sudden going to stop for some reason that I am unaware >> of? > > You haven't been paying attention. Applications come first and in the > work world that uses desktops, Linux isn't there for a reason. There > aren't many great applications that many people use daily that actually > run on it, or run on it well. You've been spending too much time on your server. There are more great apps for the Linux desktop than 90% of people need. I've used no other desktop for about 7 years. Many others on this list can say the same (or longer). My daughter and granddaughter, neither of whom is a geek, have been using Linux for the last two years with no problems. > Until the Linux desktop is exposed to people in a work environment, > there won't be any wide scale adoption of the Linux desktop in the home, > therefore it won't improve to get to the stage that the others are. Getting to the stage the others are is downgrading (or is that degrading?). -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 00:31:03 2007 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 19:31:03 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <1170979062.20020.45.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <1170979062.20020.45.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <45CBC0C7.1090408@yahoo.ca> ted leslie wrote: > On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 17:22 -0500, Stephen Allen wrote: >> On 08/02/2007 George Nicol wrote: >>> Perhaps not. >> Yeah I don't think the Linux desktop is ever going to be reality. It >> goes back to understanding what the market that uses Graphical Desktops >> want. Marketing for normal everyday users, as opposed to hacker >> culture needs. Nothing wrong with hacker culture though. > > I agree if one restricts this to desktop thinking, but I think > relatively soon (upto 10yrs) most cell phones, PDA, PVR, PS3/4, web > appliances, TV's, even mobo bios will be Linux , so I am hoping that > fact will just make it take off on the desktop, i.e. coming from a whole > different angle. Absolutely. I understand Linux is huge in the embedded market. I'm not sure if it's possible to get on the computer desktop at home though, at least the way the computer desktop metaphor is these days. I personally believe it's the licensing hurdle and the associated hacker culture. I guess I should point out, I agree with most people on why Linux is great -- I simply don't see my favourite operating system through rose coloured glasses when it comes to mainstream use on the desktop. Wishful thinking it just that ... :) >> Apple has spent litterally millions on getting it pretty close to what >> users actually want and like (although not perfect). I don't see Ubuntu >> being the solution either. > > And whats really bad is that SUSE claims to have sat generic computer > users down and done evaluations to build a easy to use system. They > improved in some areas (i think) and actually got worse in others. > With all the $$$ spent in Linux, you'd figure they could just sit > down a nice population (statistical representation of) 5000 users, > capture the issues they have and solve the issues, its not like its rock > science, its just a bit of coin needed. What would it cost to have 5000 > people submit to 160 hours of "monitoring"? at 16$/hr thats 12M$, > someone just spend it (in the linux camp) and be done with it for pete's > sake. Agreed. I Wonder why Ubuntu doesn't do something like this? As I understand it, all Ubuntu does is primarily package proprietary drivers and use the Debian developers hard work in order to look good. Remember in the late 90's when some Apple developers went on their own and developed that money pit, Nautilus? What a bloated piece of crap! >> I've been using Linux for probably a decade or little more (mainly as >> server OS). There just isn't the full suite of applications that I need >> to use on a daily basis for the Linux desktop to be reality where I work >> or at my home. > > I'd be interested in what it is you use that you can't get on Linux ... > I stopped using Windows 5+ years ago because it couldnt give me what I > wanted, only Linux could. Win32 was a dead end for video capture tech. > and programming development, and of course IE was totally screw'd. Well professionally almost everything. I use Photoshop, Final Cut Pro, Maya, After Effects, Quark and InDesign regularly. There is nothing open source that has the polish or penetration of those applications (Scribus is improving nicely, but it's still just a brother of PageMaker). Heck I need to use Acrobat as well, and in the type of work I do, it's just easier to use a desktop GUI. Personally I prefer to use vim, but it's kind of hard to work with creatives whom all use proprietary applications when you're using open source. Unfortunate, but true. > One thing that is interesting at my work, is that they just got a > crackberry outlook express server thingy. And the installing company > says to interface with it from Win desktop you need to go to the full > 2003+ office suite, that has a outlook client to support corp. > calendaring (or so they say). So i google and hopefully Evolution > (windows client) for free will come to the rescue. If it does, i can > hopefully steer another 10-15K$ away from Bills pocket. There is an open source connector for Exchange called Brutus. I've never used it but might be worth to take a look at; Brutus is an Exchange connector and development framework that offers access to all of MAPI and therefore to all versions of Microsoft Exchange from version 5.5 onwards. It is a complete wrapping of all of MAPI into a (large) set of CORBA interfaces. It enables any groupware client to integrate seamlessly into any organization with large Exchange deployments on an equal footing with MS Outlook. Being based on CORBA, it is platform independent, and works equally well on Linux, the BSDs, Windows, or wherever there is a CORBA implementation available. >> Like another poster suggested earlier this week, the desktop application >> suite has to be developed for Linux, in order for the desktop to be even >> a good sell to most people. Unfortuantely that will require copious >> proprietary products being supported by vendors for Linux. I don't see >> that happening. :( > Hopefully the Fluendo example will start to change this. > > If adobe wasn't so dam screwed up, it would be a better situation. > How such a completely useless company can have such a critical suite of > products baffles me. The Flash 5 IDE product was a grade school > computing class project at best. The slowness of flash for linux for > years was costly to Linux, and the lack of photoshop, and to a lesser > extent premier doesn't help. Personally it would be nice to see every > Linux user ban adobe, but then that would drive some back to Windows > just to get flash ability. Its a vicious cycle with adobe, someone has > got to put them out of their misery. Gimpshop is great, and I can power > my way to get what i used in Premier in Linux products, but no choice > when it comes to going to a web site and having to view flash, for that > I have to rely on those bastards. Well I like Adobe, more so since they bought Macromedia and brought their hacker culture to Adobe. I don't share your disdain of Flash, in fact I love Flash, and what I can do with it server side now. Rich Internet Applications are about to take off big time. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 00:34:38 2007 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 19:34:38 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <45CBA3A9.3080507-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA3A9.3080507@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <45CBC19E.7000307@primus.ca> Jamon Camisso wrote (in the Ice House: Repeat Event thread): > Suffice to say that I'm guilty on all counts of shameless idealism > and complete and utter contempt for the middle class panacea of > the "real world" which I'm sure consists largely of white, > responsible, pragmatic and career or family oriented, middle > management types and decision makers. I'll see your gender bias and raise you (what?) colour bias. I await your apology to the white people. Nevermind, young man, I know what you meant. Just kidding about the beam in your eye. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 00:53:59 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 19:53:59 -0500 Subject: Schrodingers Penguins. Was: Ubuntu Ice something In-Reply-To: <45CB1F37.9050600-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200702031037.41813.dave@dave-sullivan.com> <200702071855.23088.softquake@gmail.com> <45CB1F37.9050600@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200702081953.59728.softquake@gmail.com> On Thursday 08 February 2007 08:01, James Knott wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > Better do not feed these cats at all.. Food besides can attract dogs as > > well. I would prefer not to see dogs condensed into a superfluid state... > > They would all behave like one. They would flow through the windows, > > doors, regardles of gravitation. They could flow out through chimney, all > > of them behaving like one super-dog. > > There seems to be some temporal distortion occurring too. You appear to > have sent your reply to John at 6:55 PM, which is before he posted at > 7:07. ;-) Since it is not certain where an object or event will occur in space, does it ought to be certain when it occurs? There is in fact a lot analogies between physical phenomena and social life. Unfortunately, rather physicist only are able to notice them. In this society however physicists do not play any more important role and are not understood. When I entered learning programming quite a few years ago, I had no doubt that this is a field of activity for me. Programmers though, or, thats more important - managers, had no clue about physics and the fact that they are potentially ones of the best to enter programming. Ignorance governs this world. I had fun, too. My mind is filled up with analogies ;) zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 01:14:41 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 20:14:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <20070208182203.381eafbd@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45CBB86B.9070802@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > There are more > great apps for the Linux desktop than 90% of people need. I've used > no other desktop for about 7 years. Many others on this list can > say the same (or longer). I run my engineering business almost entirely on a Linux desktop and have done so for years. Open office for technical and financial spreadsheets, word processing and presentations. Xfig for engineering drawings. Octave for mathematical analysis. Gnuplot for, well, plotting. Latex for technical documents. Tcl for device interfacing and engineering programs. Firefox for web surfing. A *raft* of useful small programs (eg, gzip) and shell scripts for various file format conversions. Suse as the underlying operating system. The only thing we cannot do under Linux these days are PCB layout and routing. As a matter of habit, I use Electronic Workbench under Windows for circuit simulation, but I believe there is a linux-based alternative now. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 01:32:18 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 08 Feb 2007 20:32:18 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <1170979062.20020.45.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <1170979062.20020.45.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: ted leslie writes: > And whats really bad is that SUSE claims to have sat generic computer > users down and done evaluations to build a easy to use system. They > improved in some areas (i think) and actually got worse in others. > With all the $$$ spent in Linux, you'd figure they could just sit > down a nice population (statistical representation of) 5000 users, > capture the issues they have and solve the issues, its not like its rock > science, its just a bit of coin needed. What would it cost to have 5000 > people submit to 160 hours of "monitoring"? at 16$/hr thats 12M$, > someone just spend it (in the linux camp) and be done with it for pete's > sake. That's a simplistic analysis. Many office workers are paid $40,000 to $60,000 (or more) so $21/hr is a more realistic minimum. Then, there's overhead (office space, benefits, etc.) which is usually between .5 and 2 times the hourly rate. Call it 1, so you're looking at $42/hr. Already your project is costing over $33 million and that doesn't include the cost of developing the survey, deployment of the desktops to be monitored, or analysis of the results. Who are you going to monitor? Imagine the disruption caused by having your desktop and familiar tools replaced for a month. Would you allow your employees to be subjected to that? How much would you charge for a month of lost productivity? Or, did you think people would do this instead of taking vacation? > One thing that is interesting at my work, is that they just got a > crackberry outlook express server thingy. And the installing company > says to interface with it from Win desktop you need to go to the full > 2003+ office suite, that has a outlook client to support corp. > calendaring (or so they say). So i google and hopefully Evolution > (windows client) for free will come to the rescue. If it does, i can > hopefully steer another 10-15K$ away from Bills pocket. I just finished a contract at AMD in Markham (formerly ATI) where they have an Exchange server. I tried the Evolution root, as did a lot of the Linux people there. I spent about a month struggling with it until I finally gave up. IMO, Evolution is good for one thing: showing Windows users how bad Open Source software can be. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 01:52:38 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 20:52:38 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <45CBB991.4090704-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA3A9.3080507@utoronto.ca> <45CBB991.4090704@primus.ca> Message-ID: <45CBD3E6.5070308@utoronto.ca> George Nicol wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: >> Fanboyz is certainly the term of endearment needed to get said fans on >> board. Perhaps a little less gender bias would be a first step to not >> putting up a barrier as there are female Ubuntu users who participate >> in the biweekly meetings and contribute to Ubuntu development. > > Sorry. Ubuntu fanboyz'n'grrlz. Does such a term exist? I think everyone > here knows the _group_ I was referring to. I simply reused the name that > djp put forward in his invitation to join Saturday's action. Did you > enlighten him as well? Nevertheless, I apologize. Put forward in the context of mock self-depreciation. Evan's reply brings the derogatory connotations out explicitly, so if my reaction was too much of a kneejerk it was because of the weightiness of the term. Rather fraught with meaning now after the last few threads/days isn't it? Can you tell? :) > Now Jamon, Jane, and all the fanpplz, instead of pouncing on picayune > points, reread the original post and join the conversation. I look > forward to your constructive input. Well, I'd say the biggest barrier to input from the Ubuntu camp within the city is that the Ubuntu Canada mailing list and group suffices to satisfy most participants' needs in terms of LUG/SIG. There is just no need to look beyond our thriving, active list and communities. Of all the people who've been at Ubuntu events and meetings, I count 3 including myself that subscribe to this list. There is a reason for this no doubt, though I'm not exactly sure what it might be. I'm thinking geographical and technical factors are the two most worthy of consideration. Geographically, you're looking at a largely downtown oriented crowd of students and/or their employers. Technically, though I think we all recognize the value of some of the more esoteric topics covered at LUG meetings to those more involved in Linux professionally, there are more interesting things to learn about and play with than writing iptables rules or the like. I have google for that. Some people like to *play* with their computers; and though things like beryl may not appeal or have any utility to the more seasoned of users, it is just damn fun to play with some of the effects, and doubly so with other like minded users. There is an element of "coolness" involved here. Lack of interest and relevance are working as barriers, compounded by geography. Additionally, most of the frothing at the mouth Ubuntu users referred to as fanpplz are familiar enough with Linux such that a group like NewTLUG seems a little mundane as well as being geographically inaccessible or at least inconvenient. So you have a group of young, idealistic, enthusiastic, and intelligent fanz0rz users using, discussing, and advocating their distro of choice. No harm in that I'm sure we can all agree. Maybe a discussion about means and ends is what is really needed. Though I think you'll find that discussing the means will always involve a 10' penguin because TUX is just that *cool*, and if there's one thing that Linux lacks in the zeitgeist, it is "cool". Regarding all this chatter about participation in the broader LUG/SIG community. Well now, Ubuntu users show up at TLUG meetings, but where are TLUG members at Ubuntu meetings? Having 2 meetings a month in a downtown TTC accessible venue like the linuxcaffe surely would allow someone to come and perhaps do a little outreach of their own? Come calling at any reasonable hour in #ubuntu-ca on freenode and you'll find a few members idling away there too. So, to anyone reading this, maybe drop into the channel sometime, and make some *constructive* suggestions. Subscribe the the mailing list or come to a meeting. Maybe try Ubuntu sometime if you haven't too, don't worry, no one has to know but you ;) As a conclusion to a needlessly long email, I will say this: dialogue has to go both ways, and without any relevance or interest to Ubuntu users, or understanding on the part of other groups of the composition and group dynamics of the Ubuntu group, there isn't going to be much accomplished from our perspective. OTO I can see that for some, getting involved with a group like Ubuntu Toronto would seem like duplicating efforts and be just plain embarrassing to some (it's just daylight, come on!) Finally, I think the Ubuntu Toronto group is inherently approachable and hasn't been at all closed to input from others--there just hasn't been anything said to the group that was constructive, worthwhile, or rational enough to be persuasive and worth considering. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 01:54:14 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 20:54:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now?y In-Reply-To: References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <1170979062.20020.45.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Feb 2007, Tim Writer wrote: > > I just finished a contract at AMD in Markham (formerly ATI) where they have > an Exchange server. I tried the Evolution root, as did a lot of the Linux > people there. I spent about a month struggling with it until I finally gave > up. IMO, Evolution is good for one thing: showing Windows users how bad > Open Source software can be. Is that because it tries to emulate Outlook? (I've never used either, so I don't know how similar they are.) -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 02:02:25 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 21:02:25 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <45CBC19E.7000307-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA3A9.3080507@utoronto.ca> <45CBC19E.7000307@primus.ca> Message-ID: <45CBD631.5080205@utoronto.ca> George Nicol wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote (in the Ice House: Repeat Event thread): >> Suffice to say that I'm guilty on all counts of shameless idealism >> and complete and utter contempt for the middle class panacea of >> the "real world" which I'm sure consists largely of white, >> responsible, pragmatic and career or family oriented, middle >> management types and decision makers. > > I'll see your gender bias and raise you (what?) colour bias. > I await your apology to the white people. Ouch ;) Being white and including the adverb "largely" indicating the degree of "consists" was a good enough bet in my mind. > Nevermind, young man, I know what you meant. Just kidding about the beam > in your eye. Smiley face up there looks like s/he only has one eye to begin with. Good thing you're kidding, having a beam in the other would be trouble indeed. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 02:35:37 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 21:35:37 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <1170979062.20020.45.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <45CBDDF9.4040607@telly.org> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> I spent about a month struggling with it until I finally gave up. >> IMO, Evolution is good for one thing: showing Windows users how bad >> Open Source software can be. > > Is that because it tries to emulate Outlook? The client/server connection between Outlook and Exchange uses MAPI as its protocol instead of POP or IMAP. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 02:59:37 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 21:59:37 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <1170979062.20020.45.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <1170989977.20020.60.camel@stan64.site> On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 20:32 -0500, Tim Writer wrote: > ted leslie writes: > > > And whats really bad is that SUSE claims to have sat generic computer > > users down and done evaluations to build a easy to use system. They > > improved in some areas (i think) and actually got worse in others. > > With all the $$$ spent in Linux, you'd figure they could just sit > > down a nice population (statistical representation of) 5000 users, > > capture the issues they have and solve the issues, its not like its rock > > science, its just a bit of coin needed. What would it cost to have 5000 > > people submit to 160 hours of "monitoring"? at 16$/hr thats 12M$, > > someone just spend it (in the linux camp) and be done with it for pete's > > sake. > > That's a simplistic analysis. Many office workers are paid $40,000 to > $60,000 (or more) so $21/hr is a more realistic minimum. Then, there's > overhead (office space, benefits, etc.) which is usually between .5 and 2 > times the hourly rate. Call it 1, so you're looking at $42/hr. Already your > project is costing over $33 million and that doesn't include the cost of > developing the survey, deployment of the desktops to be monitored, or > analysis of the results. > > Who are you going to monitor? Imagine the disruption caused by having your > desktop and familiar tools replaced for a month. Would you allow your > employees to be subjected to that? How much would you charge for a month of > lost productivity? Or, did you think people would do this instead of taking > vacation? > > > One thing that is interesting at my work, is that they just got a > > crackberry outlook express server thingy. And the installing company > > says to interface with it from Win desktop you need to go to the full > > 2003+ office suite, that has a outlook client to support corp. > > calendaring (or so they say). So i google and hopefully Evolution > > (windows client) for free will come to the rescue. If it does, i can > > hopefully steer another 10-15K$ away from Bills pocket. > > I just finished a contract at AMD in Markham (formerly ATI) where they have > an Exchange server. I tried the Evolution root, as did a lot of the Linux > people there. I spent about a month struggling with it until I finally gave > up. IMO, Evolution is good for one thing: showing Windows users how bad > Open Source software can be. > Care to elaborate on your sol'n? or was it payments to Bill in the end? -tl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 16:08:56 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 11:08:56 -0500 Subject: of Hackers, Newbies and Fanboys Message-ID: Recently, the ubuntu-toronto group mobilized around a promotional opportunity, and pulled off a high profile action, with very little expense, or lead-time. As a result, the story was picked up by a raft of online news services worldwide, and the result was overwhelmingly positive. The only real negative response come from the comments on MSDN (not surprisingly) and Evan and Marcel. Now MSDN naturally loathes anything not born of Richmond, but the CLUE contingent professes a desire to promote linux and open source, so their reaction is a little more troubling. thing #1 There exists several distinct OSS enthused groups in Toronto, and despite the insistence of some who hold hard the "no duplicated effort" banner, these groups each have reasons to exist, and cannot, nor should not be dismissed. Each one has something different to offer, and none satisfy all needs. It is my hope to help reconcile these differences, and to turn the situation from one of conflict, competition and frustration, to one of co-operation and mutual respect. After all, at the end of the day, each group has formed around the idea of furthering the use of linux and Free Software. thing#1.1 GTAlug, a.k.a. TLUG is big, established, downtown and is comprised of members who represent the CompSci old-guard. It is where the big-propeller geeks gather, and is an incalculably valuable resource. OTOH, meetings are often on arcane subject matter, of little interest to Newbies, and the atmosphere can be seen as less than inviting to those new to linux. Seasoned professional SysAdmins are less likely to consider non-traditional promotional means, and while containing vast personal repositories of knowledge and experience, tend to be camera shy and easily startled. thing# 1.2 CLUE also features an established old-guard of technologists, but has avowed to further advocacy to all levels of government and NGOs. Russell McOrmands ongoing work has been outstanding, and he succinctly identifies important issues, and responds clearly and forcefully. The CLUE website features important resources, and is a key aggregation point for advocacy. OTOH, principal members of CLUE have recently been pouring negativity into other groups, imploring some to refocus all energies on CLUE, and others to simply disband. It is my hope that those people (Evan) can recognize and respect other groups right to exists and to act in what ever manner they see fit. Recent derisive commentary will only serve to dampen enthusiasm and to lessen interest and in so doing, harm credibility of (and contributions to) CLUE. This MUST NOT HAPPEN, as CLUEs activities are vital. thing #1.3 newTLUG is fresh, vibrant, inviting and serves another geographical area. We can all learn a thing or two from their meetings, and their approach, and we should also try also learn from the conditions that caused this group to split from TLUG, many moons ago. OTOH, newTLUG does not serve those who don't want to trek an hour northward, nor those experienced users who are quickly bored by groups of new user in the throes of discovery. thing #1.4 ubuntu-toronto and/or ubuntu-ca formed from the fruits of Canonical. They are official members of a world-wide community, fans of the code-base and users of a rich development infrastructure. They tend to be newer users (ubuntu is still young) and bring fresh energy, enthusiasm and imagination to the mix. While many of them are personal devotees of ubuntu, they recognize that it it built upon debian, and that that in turn is but one (if huge) facet of the larger linux movement worldwide. The ubuntu group tends to have a promotional bent, continue to demonstrate their willingness to explore new mediums and methods. OTOH, because they did not form as splinter groups from existing LUGs, and their focus is on a single (set of) distribution(s) they may not be fully aware of existing groups and/or resources. thing#2 Insults and derision aren't helping. If you disagree with the methods of one group, name-calling and belittlement only diminish your own position. Want to alter the focus of a group ? Consider joining it and effecting change in a positive and constructive manner from the inside. Bring something better to the table. As a participant in all of the above LUGs, as well as other open source related UGs, I can see clearly how each of the above mentioned groups has a reason to exist, and a shared desire to see the other groups maximize their potential, and to help the whole Free Software ecosystem flourish. Despite divisive and derisive elements in our midst, it is my strong impression that the consensus is a desire to see all linux users needs served, with a minimum of effort wasted to duplicity. I intend to use my position as elected TLUG board member, and ubuntu-ca member, to foster co-operation between the "factions". ubuntu-ca is forming methods and policies to that effect, and I hope to see GTAlug and NEWtlug do the same. On that note, I would like to propose a meeting with representatives of each, to discuss ways of turning this "problem" into an opportunity. thanks, David J Patrick -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 17:13:48 2007 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 12:13:48 -0500 Subject: PegaSoft - P3P Privacy Policies - One Week Warning Message-ID: <1171041228.5096.38.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> The next PegaSoft dinner meeting is Date: Thursday, February 15, 2007 at 7:00 pm Location: the Linux Caffe. Topic: P3P Privacy Policies (Ken B) Those "privacy policies" at the bottom of web pages are more than legal documents. They are also XML files formatted for the P3P privacy policy standard and are used by modern web browsers. This is a basic introduction to P3P and how to add privacy policies to your web site. Attendance is free but we ask you to tell us your coming (RSVP) so we can confirm there's enough people to keep the Linux Caffe open after hours for this event. Send an email to Ken Burtch (address on http://www.pegasoft.ca/people.html). Learn more about PegaSoft at www.pegasoft.ca. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 03:53:42 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 22:53:42 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <45CBB86B.9070802-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <20070208182203.381eafbd@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45CBB86B.9070802@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <20070208225342.6c7318e1@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 18:55:23 -0500 Stephen Allen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > JoeHill wrote: > > On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 17:22:38 -0500 > > Stephen Allen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > That attribution while funny the first time, gets old fast. What, I gotta change it every...er, ya, you're right. > >> Yeah I don't think the Linux desktop is ever going to be reality. It > >> goes back to understanding what the market that uses Graphical Desktops > >> want. Marketing for normal everyday users, as opposed to hacker > >> culture needs. Nothing wrong with hacker culture though. > > > > Oh, well, I'm sure the millions of hackers who handed you the Linux kernel > > for free the last ten years are relieved to hear that ;-) > > The kernel is Linux, and we're talking Linux desktops not the kernel. > Nice try though at a strawman. Kernel, GNU, FOSS, whatever. Nice try at redirecting, though. > >> Apple has spent litterally millions on getting it pretty close to what > >> users actually want and like (although not perfect). I don't see Ubuntu > >> being the solution either. > > > > Reasons? Facts? Any connection with reality whatsoever? Or just more 'I > > think therefore it is.'? > > You doubt that Apple has spent millions on their desktop? I'm not sure > what your point is, Joe. Re: Ubuntu. More dodging. Spin doctor? Oh, right, yep. > >> I've been using Linux for probably a decade or little more (mainly as > >> server OS). There just isn't the full suite of applications that I need > >> to use on a daily basis for the Linux desktop to be reality where I work > >> or at my home. > > > > Not yet. Five years ago it was a struggle for me to anything in terms of > > 'desktop' applications on Linux. Now I plug it in/install it, and it just > > works. Is that all of a sudden going to stop for some reason that I am > > unaware of? > > You haven't been paying attention. Applications come first and in the > work world that uses desktops, Linux isn't there for a reason. There > aren't many great applications that many people use daily that actually > run on it, or run on it well. > > Until the Linux desktop is exposed to people in a work environment, > there won't be any wide scale adoption of the Linux desktop in the home, > therefore it won't improve to get to the stage that the others are. > > You're seriously in dreamland if you think otherwise. Oh man. I respond to 'There just isn't the full suite of applications that I need to use on a daily basis' with 'not yet, but there might be'. Your reply is 'I didn't say that', and add some lame qualification about 'there won't be any wide scale adoption of the Linux desktop in the home' that was not in evidence previously (another 'so it is, so it ever shall be', amazingly), and accuse me of...something equally lame. Homey don't play dat. > > >> Like another poster suggested earlier this week, the desktop application > >> suite has to be developed for Linux, in order for the desktop to be even > >> a good sell to most people. Unfortuantely that will require copious > >> proprietary products being supported by vendors for Linux. I don't see > >> that happening. :( > > > > Jeez, talk about religion. This is absolutely no different than 'As it was > > in the beginning, so shall it ever be'. Don't you guys ever get tired of > > spewing baseless assumptions? > > > > Joe it's called being pragmatic as opposed to being dogmatic. We all > know that most Linux users are good at spouting dogma. ;) Heh. Wow, you are good. When you're nailed for being dogmatic... > BTW just curious Joe, but have you ever rolled your own kernel? :-P Now you're just being a...never mind. This is getting really silly. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Lucy Liu: That was incredible, Bender. You're like Jackie Chan before he got all doughy. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 04:17:28 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 08 Feb 2007 23:17:28 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <45CBDDF9.4040607-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <1170979062.20020.45.camel@stan64.site> <45CBDDF9.4040607@telly.org> Message-ID: Evan Leibovitch writes: > Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > >> I spent about a month struggling with it until I finally gave up. IMO, > >> Evolution is good for one thing: showing Windows users how bad Open > >> Source software can be. > > > > > Is that because it tries to emulate Outlook? > The client/server connection between Outlook and Exchange uses MAPI as its > protocol instead of POP or IMAP. You can use IMAP too, as long as it's enabled by the Exchange admin. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 04:22:45 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 08 Feb 2007 23:22:45 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <1170989977.20020.60.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <1170979062.20020.45.camel@stan64.site> <1170989977.20020.60.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: ted leslie writes: > On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 20:32 -0500, Tim Writer wrote: > > I just finished a contract at AMD in Markham (formerly ATI) where they have > > an Exchange server. I tried the Evolution root, as did a lot of the Linux > > people there. I spent about a month struggling with it until I finally gave > > up. IMO, Evolution is good for one thing: showing Windows users how bad > > Open Source software can be. > > > > Care to elaborate on your sol'n? or was it payments to Bill in the end? My contract was for development (in the Linux group) so I wasn't in a postion to recommend major changes to their corporate IT infrastructure. My solution was to use Gnus, with IMAP and LDAP support. Almost any e-mail client would do, Gnus just happens to be my preferred client. Of course, you don't get calendaring with this approach. For calendaring, I bit the bullet and used Outlook via rdesktop. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 04:16:46 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 08 Feb 2007 23:16:46 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now?y In-Reply-To: References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <1170979062.20020.45.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: "Chris F.A. Johnson" writes: > On Thu, 8 Feb 2007, Tim Writer wrote: > > > > I just finished a contract at AMD in Markham (formerly ATI) where they have > > an Exchange server. I tried the Evolution root, as did a lot of the Linux > > people there. I spent about a month struggling with it until I finally gave > > up. IMO, Evolution is good for one thing: showing Windows users how bad > > Open Source software can be. > > Is that because it tries to emulate Outlook? No. It's because it's got more serious bugs than features. It loses settings mysteriously. If you can complete e-mail addresses using the Global Address List (Exchange terminology), you can't access your shared calendar. If you can access your shared calendar, you can't complete addresses. The Exchange connector leaks memory so badly that you have to restart it half a dozen times daily (this on a system with 1GB RAM). All the messages in folders disappear and can't be recovered; you can see them with another IMAP client but not Evolution. It mysteriously stops sending and receiving (even when it's not using all your RAM). I could go on. If it was a 0.1 application, I'd say it was promising. Considering it's "mature", I think it's a disaster and should be dropped from distributions. A little googling will reveal that I'm not alone. > (I've never used either, so I don't know how similar they are.) > > -- > Chris F.A. Johnson > =================================================================== > Author: > Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From manimotomushi-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 15:58:23 2007 From: manimotomushi-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Manimoto Mushi) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 10:58:23 -0500 Subject: HELP - how to record sound? Message-ID: NOTE: The following request for help was posted to alt.os.linux.slackware as well. I am using Slackware 11.0 + kernel 2.6.19.2. Soundcard is a "SBLive! Platinum." I want to record some cassettes I have and store them as mp3's. So I did exactly what I did a few years ago in windows... 1 - plugged the headphone output from the cassette deck to the "Line In" of sound card. (I know that I could use the desk's Line Out instead but the deck is flaky, and the sound output this way is very good). 2 - Used "alsamixer" set volume of "Line In" to required level. 3 - Verified this worked by playing a cassette and adjusting output level, etc. 4 - Used "arecord" to record with command: "arecord -f cd -t wav outfile.wav" Now it seems to record, but when I listen to the file there is no sound at all. Using a sound editor to look at the waveform I just see a straight line, confirming that nothing was recorded. I've played around with all the alsamixer settings to make sure they are as should be but nothing. I then tried in Windows (all I have is Win98) and using the Creative utility I can record successfully. I want to do this in Linux since its performance and large file handling are so much better and I don't use windows for anything anymore and want to continue like that... :-) Any one have suggestions as to what I should try? Has anyone a similar setup as mine and can record from Line In? Thanks for any help. _________________________________________________________________ http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=43.658648~-79.383962&style=r&lvl=15&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=3702663&cid=7ABE80D1746919B4!1329 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 04:03:05 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 23:03:05 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <45CBDDF9.4040607-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBDDF9.4040607@telly.org> Message-ID: <200702082303.05124.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Thursday 08 February 2007 21:35, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > >> I spent about a month struggling with it until I finally gave up. > >> IMO, Evolution is good for one thing: showing Windows users how bad > >> Open Source software can be. > > > > Is that because it tries to emulate Outlook? > > The client/server connection between Outlook and Exchange uses MAPI as > its protocol instead of POP or IMAP. And evolution-exchange uses webdav (emulating what outlook web access does), I've also tried evolution-exchange and my experience was pretty awful. Stephen in an email a little while ago mentioned evolution-brutus which sounds interesting unfortunately it seems like evolution-brutus is a server which must be set up on a Windows server. If you are given an exchange server I don't think there's any way around it. Use outlook, use a blackberry (if you have blackberry enterprise server) or use outlook web access. I use rdesktop to login to a Windows server and run outlook natively from there. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 19:56:34 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 14:56:34 -0500 Subject: HELP - how to record sound? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070209195634.GS7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 09, 2007 at 10:58:23AM -0500, Manimoto Mushi wrote: > NOTE: The following request for help was posted to alt.os.linux.slackware > as well. > > I am using Slackware 11.0 + kernel 2.6.19.2. Soundcard is a "SBLive! > Platinum." > > I want to record some cassettes I have and store them as mp3's. So I did > exactly > what I did a few years ago in windows... > 1 - plugged the headphone output from the cassette deck to the "Line In" of > sound card. (I know that I could use the desk's Line Out instead but > the > deck is flaky, and the sound output this way is very good). > 2 - Used "alsamixer" set volume of "Line In" to required level. > 3 - Verified this worked by playing a cassette and adjusting output level, > etc. > 4 - Used "arecord" to record with command: "arecord -f cd -t wav > outfile.wav" > > Now it seems to record, but when I listen to the file there is no sound at > all. > Using a sound editor to look at the waveform I just see a straight line, > confirming that nothing was recorded. > > I've played around with all the alsamixer settings to make sure they are as > should be but nothing. > > I then tried in Windows (all I have is Win98) and using the Creative > utility I > can record successfully. I want to do this in Linux since its performance > and > large file handling are so much better and I don't use windows for anything > anymore and want to continue like that... :-) > > Any one have suggestions as to what I should try? Has anyone a similar setup > as mine and can record from Line In? Did you select the line in as the capture source? Hit tab in alsamixer to switch to capture view, then go to the line in input, and hit space to select it as the capture source, or do something like: amixer -c 0 sset Line,0 unmute cap It might default to capture from mic or CD input, which would explain getting no recording. What you enable for listening is completely seperate from the capture source. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 16:43:14 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 11:43:14 -0500 Subject: Mythtery: Rogers Cable channel lineup changes for Toronto In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200702091143.14588.mervc@eol.ca> On Thursday 08 February 2007 14:26, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Rogers has changed their conventional cable TV channel lineup in Toronto. > Zap2it Labs and MythTV do not adjust to the change automatically. > > Here's what worked for me: > Thanks muchly for these hints. Saved me a lot of frustration. Cheers -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 20:04:08 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 15:04:08 -0500 Subject: Trouble in LVM land In-Reply-To: <1170897123.3593.57.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <200702071219.24329.mervc@eol.ca> <200702071930.13698.mervc@eol.ca> <1170897123.3593.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200702091504.08559.mervc@eol.ca> On Wednesday 07 February 2007 20:12, John Van Ostrand wrote: Hopefully this won't be too confusing, deleting all my original comments. I do want to thank you for all the time you took typing all those suggestions and Tim's and your additional corrections and hints. I have put another drive in the box and installed mythtv backend on it. This problem drive is now hdb and perhaps I can recover the movies that are in the /videolv01volume. Maybe I can continue to run your troubleshooting techniques, I'll try. At any rate, don't spend any more time on this, unless you have spare time and think it might give us more insights. I have included some comments re your suggestions. > > At the Ctrl-D prompt you should be typing the root user's password and > pressing enter. This will log you into a shell where you will be able to > type commands. > Well normally in the past I haven't tried to fix the problem since booting usually continues when I exit the shell, however not this time, so thanks for the reminder to get back to basics. > While in this shell you should be able to run commands like: > > vgscan vgscan /dev/hda Locking type 1 initialization failed > vgdisplay vgdisplay /dev/hda gave the same error [?] message > > >From the error you mention, "No such device or file", indicates that > > device file is not there. This could be because the volume group is not > active or it was misspelled. > > Here are the steps that you need to do and before you do them MAKE SURE > YOU KNOW WHICH DEVICES ARE USED FOR FILE SYSTEMS AND WHICH ARE IN VOLUME > GROUPS. These commands may delete data from your disks if you use them > incorrectly. > > 1. Make sure that the physical devices are visible. Use 'sfdisk -l' to > list disks and partitions. If that's not there try 'fdisk -l'. If you > can see the disks then that's your problem. Check disk connections, > controllers, etc and replace the disk if needed. > fdisk -l /dev/hda lists the contents the same as I showed in my initial message, roughly hda1 150 MB ext3 /boot hda2 7 GB LVM rootvg rootlv01 / rootlv02 swap hda3 236 GB LVM videovg videolv01 /video However fdisk -l /dev/hdb /dev/hdb doesn't contain a valid partition table Since hdb1 is just an extension of videolv01, this may be normal. When I did the extension, the size of videolv01 changed from 230 GB's to 500+ GB's. I assumed that I had done it correctly. I am positive that fdisk created hda1, since Tim warned me of this partitioning error. However with no hda1, maybe? > 2. Ensure that each device is properly setup as an LVM physical volume > (PV). Use 'pvdisplay /dev/hda1', 'pvdisplay /dev/hda2', etc to make sure > each disk looks good. If pvdisplay gives an error it's possible that a) > a file system was created directly on the partition (like a /boot > partition) or the physical volume was created on the whole disk device > (e.g. hdb instead of hdb1.) NOTE: You almost certanly didn't create a PV > on /dev/hda. > I printed your page and made notes as I tried your suggestions, nothing written here, so I guess I had no results for pvdisplay or pvscan. > 3. Make sure that the volume groups are active. Run 'vgdisplay videovg'. > You should see interesting output. If you don't then the volume group is > not active. If steps 1 and 2 work then this step should work. If you > can't see the VG then try to activate it 'vgchange -a y videovg'. > Alternatively, maybe it was misspelled. Try 'vgdisplay' and see if it is > displayed. > Vgdisplay only gives the results I mentioned at the top. > 4. The file system may simply need to be checked. I'm going to assume > you are using an ext3 file system. IF YOU AREN'T then don't use this > command. Run 'e2fsck /dev/videovg/videolv01' answer 'y' to all > questions. If you are willing to abandon this file system and re-create. > You could also choose to recreate the LV or even the VG. > e2fsck /dev/rootvg/rootlv01 clean ........ doesn't apply to /rootlv02 swap e2fsck /dev/hda1 clean ......... [ /boot ] e2fsck /dev/hda3 effectively -doesn't exist- > 5. Finally try to mount the file system. It may be that /etc/fstab has > the wrong file system type listed and refuses to mount it. Run > "mount /dev/videovg/videolv01 /mnt". The command should run without > error and your file system should be mounted on /mnt. Run 'ls /mnt' to > see if you can see your files. Then run 'umount /mnt' to unmount it. > Can't mount something that doesn't exist, right? One thing I didn't mention was, the booting messages that flow by have a line; fstab has an error on line 18. From the shell 'less' only displays the 8 lines that are there. From the shell 'nano' loads the 8 lines and I don't see anything further down but I can't write the file since it is 'read only'. Perhaps this is a part of the problem. I will be interested in seeing if, now that the old partition hda3 which is now hdb3 gives the same results, ie none. This might not be surprising now that part of /dev/videovg/videolv01 has been amputated with the removal of it's erstwhile companion, hdb[1]. Again thanks, have a good weekend. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 04:04:10 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 23:04:10 -0500 Subject: git question: resolving conflicts Message-ID: <1170993850.5965.109.camel@localhost> hi, i'm a terrible coder but I'm trying to work with the ubuntu kernel source, making a few modifications so that it's easier to build custom kernels on ubuntu (I hate how complex it is on the current set up). anyway I'm merging the suspend2 git tree and the ubuntu tree, andthere are currently a couple of merge conflicts: $ cg-branch-add suspend2 git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/nigelc/suspend2-head.git $ cg-update suspend2 ... Applying changes... Merging 549ae0ac3d574a682e82b02e79259a65445a675b -> 83f6a220185d229f6d54098ecd774837c3cd1e33 to c665c66bd17e9dd5bad964a4befbe649c6c95474 ... .......... Auto-merging drivers/usb/host/ehci-hub.c CONFLICTS during merge. MERGE ERROR: File drivers/usb/host/ehci-ps3.c added in both branches, but different in each! MERGE ERROR: Conflicting versions saved as 'drivers/usb/host/ehci-ps3.c~ubuntu-suspend2' and 'drivers/usb/host/ehci-ps3.c~suspend2'. ... Auto-merging drivers/usb/host/ehci.h ... Auto-merging drivers/usb/host/ohci-at91.c MERGE ERROR: File drivers/usb/host/ohci-ppc-of.c added in both branches, but different in each! MERGE ERROR: Conflicting versions saved as 'drivers/usb/host/ohci-ppc-of.c~ubuntu-suspend2' and 'drivers/usb/host/ohci-ppc-of.c~suspend2'. MERGE ERROR: File drivers/usb/host/ohci-ps3.c added in both branches, but different in each! MERGE ERROR: Conflicting versions saved as 'drivers/usb/host/ohci-ps3.c~ubuntu-suspend2' and 'drivers/usb/host/ohci-ps3.c~suspend2'. ..... Conflicts during merge. Do cg-commit after resolving them. cg-reset will cancel the merge. ------------------------- since I'm a bit ignorant, I also looked at cg-status: ? arch/powerpc/platforms/ps3/system-bus.c~suspend2 ? arch/powerpc/platforms/ps3/system-bus.c~ubuntu-suspend2 ? drivers/usb/host/ehci-ps3.c~suspend2 ? drivers/usb/host/ehci-ps3.c~ubuntu-suspend2 ? drivers/usb/host/ohci-ppc-of.c~suspend2 ? drivers/usb/host/ohci-ppc-of.c~ubuntu-suspend2 ? drivers/usb/host/ohci-ps3.c~suspend2 ? drivers/usb/host/ohci-ps3.c~ubuntu-suspend2 the differences between the files seem to be pretty minor and I think I can just fix them without knowing what's going on ( in any case I'm compiling on i386, not ppc). However, I guess I don't know how to resolve conflicts in git! I madethe changes I thought appropriate, then typed: $ cg-commit ohci-ppc-of.c ohci-ps3.c ehci-ps3.c and got: cg-commit: cannot commit individual files when merging so obviously I'm missing something but I confess that my head swims when I try to read the git documentation. ANy hints for a semi-tech what I ought to do in this instance? thanks much, matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jane-UlHtTOpGojasTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 04:09:03 2007 From: jane-UlHtTOpGojasTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Jane Zhang) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 23:09:03 -0500 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <45CBD3E6.5070308-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <45CBD3E6.5070308@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <002701c74c00$0962cf50$0300a8c0@Fred> As someone who works with non-profits on technology projects, I see way too often the challenges they face both financially and from a lack of technical knowledge. My main goal is to make technology more accessible to everyone and to educate organizations/individuals to utilize technology more efficiently, thus my interest in FOSS. >From what I can see, there are at least two gaps in the Linux community right now. The lack of FOSS advocacy on a community level and the lack of out reach to youth. When I first became interested in Open Source advocacy, I found out about CLUE, but CLUE seems to be involved mainly with the government and policy makers. There really doesn't seem be a group or organization that's focused on the promotion of FOSS to the public in the GTA. Ubuntu Toronto is at least headed in that direction, and I think most of the members would love to collaborate with the rest of the open source community. This then brings me to the topic of attracting more young people to the Linux community. Most true techno-phobic people these days are from the generation when computers are considered a new phenomenon. The younger generations grew up with technology so it is second nature to them. They are going to be the Linux geeks of the future, so let's nourish and mentor their efforts instead of ripping them a new one for trying. Walk a mile in their shoes and see where they are coming from might help. In the age of MySpace, YouTube, and viral marketing, going out to the ICE House with a 10' Tux and a big smile on your face to promote the benefits of Open Source doesn't sound *that* embarrassing. So, let us open up the discussion of collaborating for Software Freedom Day 2007. Teddy, please feel free to respond since you are listed as the rep for SFD. If not, let's carry on with the planning process anyway. For those of you who care about FOSS, it's time to make a difference. For those of you that have wisdom to dispense, show us how it can be done properly. We are all ears. Jane *perhaps too young and idealistic for her own good, but it's not going to stop her from trying.* -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jamon Camisso Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 8:53 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? George Nicol wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: >> Fanboyz is certainly the term of endearment needed to get said fans on >> board. Perhaps a little less gender bias would be a first step to not >> putting up a barrier as there are female Ubuntu users who participate >> in the biweekly meetings and contribute to Ubuntu development. > > Sorry. Ubuntu fanboyz'n'grrlz. Does such a term exist? I think everyone > here knows the _group_ I was referring to. I simply reused the name that > djp put forward in his invitation to join Saturday's action. Did you > enlighten him as well? Nevertheless, I apologize. Put forward in the context of mock self-depreciation. Evan's reply brings the derogatory connotations out explicitly, so if my reaction was too much of a kneejerk it was because of the weightiness of the term. Rather fraught with meaning now after the last few threads/days isn't it? Can you tell? :) > Now Jamon, Jane, and all the fanpplz, instead of pouncing on picayune > points, reread the original post and join the conversation. I look > forward to your constructive input. Well, I'd say the biggest barrier to input from the Ubuntu camp within the city is that the Ubuntu Canada mailing list and group suffices to satisfy most participants' needs in terms of LUG/SIG. There is just no need to look beyond our thriving, active list and communities. Of all the people who've been at Ubuntu events and meetings, I count 3 including myself that subscribe to this list. There is a reason for this no doubt, though I'm not exactly sure what it might be. I'm thinking geographical and technical factors are the two most worthy of consideration. Geographically, you're looking at a largely downtown oriented crowd of students and/or their employers. Technically, though I think we all recognize the value of some of the more esoteric topics covered at LUG meetings to those more involved in Linux professionally, there are more interesting things to learn about and play with than writing iptables rules or the like. I have google for that. Some people like to *play* with their computers; and though things like beryl may not appeal or have any utility to the more seasoned of users, it is just damn fun to play with some of the effects, and doubly so with other like minded users. There is an element of "coolness" involved here. Lack of interest and relevance are working as barriers, compounded by geography. Additionally, most of the frothing at the mouth Ubuntu users referred to as fanpplz are familiar enough with Linux such that a group like NewTLUG seems a little mundane as well as being geographically inaccessible or at least inconvenient. So you have a group of young, idealistic, enthusiastic, and intelligent fanz0rz users using, discussing, and advocating their distro of choice. No harm in that I'm sure we can all agree. Maybe a discussion about means and ends is what is really needed. Though I think you'll find that discussing the means will always involve a 10' penguin because TUX is just that *cool*, and if there's one thing that Linux lacks in the zeitgeist, it is "cool". Regarding all this chatter about participation in the broader LUG/SIG community. Well now, Ubuntu users show up at TLUG meetings, but where are TLUG members at Ubuntu meetings? Having 2 meetings a month in a downtown TTC accessible venue like the linuxcaffe surely would allow someone to come and perhaps do a little outreach of their own? Come calling at any reasonable hour in #ubuntu-ca on freenode and you'll find a few members idling away there too. So, to anyone reading this, maybe drop into the channel sometime, and make some *constructive* suggestions. Subscribe the the mailing list or come to a meeting. Maybe try Ubuntu sometime if you haven't too, don't worry, no one has to know but you ;) As a conclusion to a needlessly long email, I will say this: dialogue has to go both ways, and without any relevance or interest to Ubuntu users, or understanding on the part of other groups of the composition and group dynamics of the Ubuntu group, there isn't going to be much accomplished from our perspective. OTO I can see that for some, getting involved with a group like Ubuntu Toronto would seem like duplicating efforts and be just plain embarrassing to some (it's just daylight, come on!) Finally, I think the Ubuntu Toronto group is inherently approachable and hasn't been at all closed to input from others--there just hasn't been anything said to the group that was constructive, worthwhile, or rational enough to be persuasive and worth considering. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 20:14:20 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 15:14:20 -0500 Subject: of Hackers, Newbies and Fanboys In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070209201420.GD632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Thank you David. I have been recently dismayed at the negative tone of some of the threads on this list, and I'm pleased to see it being addressed. Enthusiasm can lead to faux pas and tactical missteps, but, given the generally mature and tolerant tone the list sets, I think we can cut those who are enthused a little slack. People who use Linux are a pretty diverse group, and just as there is no One True Distro there is no single motivation for Linux use. Just as we help one another out technically with patience and forbearance, we can debate advocacy and publicity in the same spirit. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 20:23:47 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 15:23:47 -0500 Subject: Recommend a video card? Message-ID: <20070209202347.GE632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Can anyone recommend a video card for Linux? I have a couple of criteria, but I think most bars are set pretty low: 1. DVI out - I am looking at an LCD monitor, and most require DVI - my Matrox G450 is VGA only, and I understand that LCDs do well with digital input. 2. Can perform basic 3D rendering - at least the OpenGL stuff to some degree. I'm not gaming, but I wouldn't mind be able to at least experiment with xgl/compiz. 3. Cheap. 4. Has acceptable performance with open source drivers. I am not going to install any binary-only modules. The last one is not negotiable. If someone has an older card gathering dust that would fit these criteria, I would happily buy it from you. Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 20:30:27 2007 From: mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Marcel Gagne) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 15:30:27 -0500 Subject: of Hackers, Newbies and Fanboys In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200702091530.28005.mggagne@salmar.com> Hello David, I intended to reply in private but since you mentioned my name publicly, I'll make my reply public as well. On February 9, 2007 11:08:56 am David J Patrick wrote: > > positive. The only real negative response come from the comments on > MSDN (not surprisingly) and Evan and Marcel. Now MSDN naturally > loathes anything not born of Richmond, but the CLUE contingent > professes a desire to promote linux and open source, so their reaction > is a little more troubling. Before you accuse Marcel of negative comments, read Marcel's email on this subject a second time. I've said frightfully little on this subject but what I said came out of a genuine concern for this community and how it is perceived. The message I wrote on this subject was a warning, prior to the events taking place, in fact (I refuse to make judgements on what happened at the event itself). I said that IF the author of the CRN Canada article (who suggested attendees were looking to trespass, disrupt, and cause property damage) was right in what he overheard, then I believe it was an amazingly bad idea. I still think that any event attended by Free Software enthusiasts that involves trespassing on someone else's property and causing harm is a bad idea and I won't back down from that point. I did, however, also suggest that talk of "starting a fire" in the ice house, could just as easily be just that, talk. Guys sitting around chatting over a beer or coffee have been known to posture and make suggestions they would never carry out. I resent any suggestion that I stand in the way of Linux and open source advocacy or that what I do is meant to somehow derail its progress. I have put more work, energy, and enthusiasm into helping bring Linux and open source into the mainstream than most and I'll hold my record up to yours any day. If you are offended by my warnings that breaking the law, trespassing, and causing property damage are somehow barriers to open source advocacy, then you've got some explaining to do. > duplicity. I intend to use my position as elected TLUG board member, > and ubuntu-ca member, to foster co-operation between the "factions". > ubuntu-ca is forming methods and policies to that effect, and I hope > to see GTAlug and NEWtlug do the same. I'm not a 'faction'. I am, however, one who was deeply concerned about what could have been a disaster for this community (assuming the CRN Canada article was reporting on genuine intentions), a community I care deeply about. I spoke out in hopes of preventing a potential public relations (not to mention, legal) nightmare. > On that note, I would like to > propose a meeting with representatives of each, to discuss ways of > turning this "problem" into an opportunity. Still see this as a problem? -- Marcel (Writer and Free Thinker at Large) Gagn? Note: This massagee wos nat speel or gramer-checkered. Mandatory home page reference - http://www.marcelgagne.com/ Author of the "Moving to Linux" series of books and the all new, "Moving to Free Software" Join the WFTL-LUG : http://www.marcelgagne.com/wftllugform.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 20:43:42 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 15:43:42 -0500 Subject: Recommend a video card? In-Reply-To: <20070209202347.GE632-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070209202347.GE632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <7ac602420702091243y44dfadc3va316e4553e94786c@mail.gmail.com> I understand that Intel makes some video hardware that meets all your criteria. I'm not sure of the model numbers, or if it's possible to buy them as outboard cards--you may have to buy a motherboard with Intel video on board. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 21:02:58 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 16:02:58 -0500 Subject: Recommend a video card? In-Reply-To: <7ac602420702091243y44dfadc3va316e4553e94786c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070209202347.GE632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <7ac602420702091243y44dfadc3va316e4553e94786c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070209210258.GF632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Fri, Feb 09, 2007 at 03:43:42PM -0500, Ian Petersen wrote: >I understand that Intel makes some video hardware that meets all your >criteria. I'm not sure of the model numbers, or if it's possible to >buy them as outboard cards--you may have to buy a motherboard with >Intel video on board. Thanks for the suggestion. I note that there are several chipsets mentioned on the fsf.org page relating to Intel video cards, which looked promising. However, I have not been able to find an Intel video card that wasn't an on-board model. If I bought a new motherboard I'd have to buy a new CPU as well, and then my perfectly functional RAM would have to be replaced, and all of a sudden it's priced me out of a new monitor, which is the reason for this exercise. I appreciate the suggestion, and if anyone can recommend a stand-alone Intel video card I'd be quite interested. Thanks again. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 21:09:10 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 16:09:10 -0500 Subject: Recommend a video card? In-Reply-To: <20070209202347.GE632-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070209202347.GE632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070209210910.GT7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 09, 2007 at 03:23:47PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Can anyone recommend a video card for Linux? I have a couple of > criteria, but I think most bars are set pretty low: > > 1. DVI out - I am looking at an LCD monitor, and most require DVI - my > Matrox G450 is VGA only, and I understand that LCDs do well with digital > input. > > 2. Can perform basic 3D rendering - at least the OpenGL stuff to some > degree. I'm not gaming, but I wouldn't mind be able to at least > experiment with xgl/compiz. > > 3. Cheap. > > 4. Has acceptable performance with open source drivers. I am not going > to install any binary-only modules. > > The last one is not negotiable. If someone has an older card gathering > dust that would fit these criteria, I would happily buy it from you. > Thanks. Well lets see: DVI implies not old. Open Source 3D implies old as far as I can tell. Cheap implies old or at least low end which often implies no DVI. You can get ATI 9200 cards (AGP or PCI) with 128MB refurbished from ATI's online store, although they are VGA only, not DVI. The open source driver for that may be functional for what you want. The R3xx based cards (9500 to X8xx) seem to be starting to work, but not fully for some features. So perhaps a 9550 or something (also available refurbished) is an option. They do have VGA and DVI it appears. There certainly is no simple answer that fits all your requirements. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 21:10:12 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 16:10:12 -0500 Subject: Recommend a video card? In-Reply-To: <7ac602420702091243y44dfadc3va316e4553e94786c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070209202347.GE632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <7ac602420702091243y44dfadc3va316e4553e94786c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070209211012.GU7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 09, 2007 at 03:43:42PM -0500, Ian Petersen wrote: > I understand that Intel makes some video hardware that meets all your > criteria. I'm not sure of the model numbers, or if it's possible to > buy them as outboard cards--you may have to buy a motherboard with > Intel video on board. Intel has an open driver that does 3D on a chip with DVI output? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 21:53:45 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 16:53:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux People/Advocacy Projects.... Message-ID: <676586.34938.qm@web88213.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Well, let me note where things stand with advocacy projects... I've been a bit slow on talking about the Linux World Canada show (which is to be part of the IT360 show this year at the Metro Convention Centre). Current writing project is an item on RHEL5 (not yet released to the general public). Any event, we have a deal with the IT360 people, which means we will have a booth at the show. I will be announcing a planning meeting once I get clear of this project... Basically I would like a variation on what happened last year (which over all worked out quite well). In other words tweaks to formula that is working. Some changes that may be coming down the pipe will be to have our booth next to some other Linux advocacy groups (CLUE? Linux International? etc.). I would also be happy to help start a ball rolling re: Software Freedom day in September. Let's start by asking questions like "What do we as a group want to achieve from Software Freedom day?". Do we want to say be encouraging the use of free software on any/all platforms (to the point of say handing out CDs with say Firefox for Windows)?. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 22:07:22 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 17:07:22 -0500 Subject: Recommend a video card? In-Reply-To: <20070209211012.GU7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070209202347.GE632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <7ac602420702091243y44dfadc3va316e4553e94786c@mail.gmail.com> <20070209211012.GU7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420702091407q1d779225oefcf0ca284cdb20c@mail.gmail.com> > Intel has an open driver that does 3D on a chip with DVI output? Intel has an open driver that does 3D--now that you question me, I'm not certain about the DVI bit, but William has already given an economic reason not to go with Intel anyway. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 22:10:10 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 23:10:10 +0100 Subject: of Hackers, Newbies and Fanboys In-Reply-To: <200702091530.28005.mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200702091530.28005.mggagne@salmar.com> Message-ID: <45CCF142.6000702@utoronto.ca> Marcel Gagne wrote: > Hello David, --------------------- snip ------------------------------------------------- > > I said that IF the author of the CRN Canada article (who suggested attendees > were looking to trespass, disrupt, and cause property damage) was right in > what he overheard, then I believe it was an amazingly bad idea. I still think > that any event attended by Free Software enthusiasts that involves > trespassing on someone else's property and causing harm is a bad idea and I > won't back down from that point. I did, however, also suggest that talk > of "starting a fire" in the ice house, could just as easily be just that, > talk. Guys sitting around chatting over a beer or coffee have been known to > posture and make suggestions they would never carry out. --------------------- snip --------------------------------------------------- Has anybody made the comment that the CRN Canada article was a BAD piece of journalism? Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 22:21:27 2007 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 17:21:27 -0500 Subject: Toshiba Satellite P100-MA1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Everyone, Well, my boss gave in and bought me the laptop. I've successfully installed ubuntu edgy eft, although I had to use the alternative text mode installation as the regular live cd x server crapped out. After playing with xorg.conf I am able to use the 3d acceleration for intel 945GM Express video chipset. However the max resolution I have is 1280x800. The monitor is capable of 1440x900. I've added the following line to the Monitor section of xorg.conf without success. Modeline "1440x900 at 60" 96.30 1440 1544 1688 1904 900 901 904 958 I used a modeline calculator to get the numbers. The Xorg log says (II) I810(0): Not using mode "1440x900" (no mode of this name) Would anyone have any suggestions as to how I can get X to recognize the mode? Thanks! Randy -- Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world --John Lennon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 22:26:38 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 17:26:38 -0500 Subject: of Hackers, Newbies and Fanboys In-Reply-To: <45CCF142.6000702-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200702091530.28005.mggagne@salmar.com> <45CCF142.6000702@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <200702091726.38893.softquake@gmail.com> On Friday 09 February 2007 17:10, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Marcel Gagne wrote: > > Hello David, > > --------------------------------------------------- > > Has anybody made the comment that the CRN Canada article was a BAD piece of > journalism? So far, I guess, nobody. I do agree, it was. And, what was my very first impression when I read it for the first time? Well, my impression was that the article was prepared by someone who is rather on the same side as Microsoft, and I could not quite trust various statements there that look rather like a bending observations of the author towards his "views". If someone has such a mistrust after reading - thats sufficient evidence that this is a poor journalism. zb. > Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 9 23:03:20 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 18:03:20 -0500 Subject: Toshiba Satellite P100-MA1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070209230320.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 09, 2007 at 05:21:27PM -0500, Randy Jonasz wrote: > Hey Everyone, > > Well, my boss gave in and bought me the laptop. I've successfully > installed ubuntu edgy eft, although I had to use the alternative text > mode installation as the regular live cd x server crapped out. After > playing with xorg.conf I am able to use the 3d acceleration for intel > 945GM Express video chipset. However the max resolution I have is > 1280x800. The monitor is capable of 1440x900. I've added the > following line to the Monitor section of xorg.conf without success. > > Modeline "1440x900 at 60" 96.30 1440 1544 1688 1904 900 901 904 > 958 > > I used a modeline calculator to get the numbers. The Xorg log says > > (II) I810(0): Not using mode "1440x900" (no mode of this name) > > Would anyone have any suggestions as to how I can get X to recognize the > mode? You named the mode "1440x900 at 60" not "1440x900", so you have to use 1440x900 at 60 in the Modes section as well, or change the modeline to not have @60 in the name. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 00:51:56 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 19:51:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Mythtery: Rogers Cable channel lineup changes for Toronto In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | Here's what worked for me: Actually, I spoke too soon. All the new channels were added but the replaced channels remained. To be concrete, Rogers replaced 3 channels: 37: CNNH replaced by BBCW 48: SPCCAN replaced by TCMC 55 CNBCC replaced by AMCCAN Zap2it got this right. MythTV thinks both sets of channels co-exist (according the the channel guide). MythWeb thinks only the old ones exist (I think that it takes only one channel per number, and the last one wins). How can I get these old channels deleted? I tried a bunch of things including mythfilldatabase --do-channel-updates mythfilldatabase --remove-new-channels mythtvsetup: remove channel Here's what I ended up doing. The following procedure will eliminate the dead channels from the display of the Program Guide. shutdown myth backend run mythtvsetup select "5. channel Editor" change "sort mode" to "Channel Number" (makes it easier to find the channel in the list) for each channel to be deleted: move to the channel from "Channels" pane press return, which gets you to "Cannel Options - Common" page unselect (untick) the "visible" checkbox click next click finish repeat for each channel ESC key to leave Channel Editor ESC key to exit mythtvsetup start up myth backend -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 01:25:09 2007 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 20:25:09 -0500 Subject: of Hackers, Newbies and Fanboys In-Reply-To: <200702091726.38893.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200702091530.28005.mggagne@salmar.com> <45CCF142.6000702@utoronto.ca> <200702091726.38893.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <92ee967a0702091725h7731fe6w207ecdd449f8c7bd@mail.gmail.com> On 2/9/07, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On Friday 09 February 2007 17:10, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > > Marcel Gagne wrote: > > > Hello David, > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > Has anybody made the comment that the CRN Canada article was a BAD piece of > > journalism? > > So far, I guess, nobody. I do agree, it was. Here too. Terrible article. An opinion peice on something the author isn't quite sure they heard clearly in a cafe. I've read better blogs. I've read few blogs so bad. He should have just turned around and interviewed them. It would have been much more sensible. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From demsullivan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 01:55:09 2007 From: demsullivan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Sullivan) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 20:55:09 -0500 Subject: of Hackers, Newbies and Fanboys In-Reply-To: <200702091530.28005.mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200702091530.28005.mggagne@salmar.com> Message-ID: <200702092055.10925.demsullivan@gmail.com> Marcel, Indeed, the CRN article was very much based on hearsay and mailing list ramblings, and IMO is an example of very poor reporting. Not once did the writer make an attempt to ask us for an official word. It was never our intention to trespass or cause a disturbance of any kind. In fact, the event was quite peaceful and consisted of CDs and informational sheets being handed out, as well as talking to folks on the street about open source and software licensing. Now that I'm writing my first post to the TLUG mailing list, I'll take the opportunity to introduce myself: I am the lead "Ubuntu fanboy" for the Toronto team, and I am looking forward to taking steps in the right direction with regards to co-operating with the TLUG community. I think the Software Freedom Day 2007 project is a great way to collaborate and share our ideas and experience to work toward our common goals. Pending schedule arrangements, I plan on being present at the next TLUG meeting. I hope that TLUG folks will take similar steps and join us at an Ubuntu Toronto meeting to see what we're all about as well. -- Dave Sullivan dave-VvnUh7fPG/k7v45Mz1C67QC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org 647-235-0328 On Friday 09 February 2007 3:30 pm, Marcel Gagne wrote: > Hello David, > > I intended to reply in private but since you mentioned my name publicly, > I'll make my reply public as well. > > On February 9, 2007 11:08:56 am David J Patrick wrote: > > positive. The only real negative response come from the comments on > > MSDN (not surprisingly) and Evan and Marcel. Now MSDN naturally > > loathes anything not born of Richmond, but the CLUE contingent > > professes a desire to promote linux and open source, so their reaction > > is a little more troubling. > > Before you accuse Marcel of negative comments, read Marcel's email on this > subject a second time. I've said frightfully little on this subject but > what I said came out of a genuine concern for this community and how it is > perceived. The message I wrote on this subject was a warning, prior to the > events taking place, in fact (I refuse to make judgements on what happened > at the event itself). > > I said that IF the author of the CRN Canada article (who suggested > attendees were looking to trespass, disrupt, and cause property damage) was > right in what he overheard, then I believe it was an amazingly bad idea. I > still think that any event attended by Free Software enthusiasts that > involves trespassing on someone else's property and causing harm is a bad > idea and I won't back down from that point. I did, however, also suggest > that talk of "starting a fire" in the ice house, could just as easily be > just that, talk. Guys sitting around chatting over a beer or coffee have > been known to posture and make suggestions they would never carry out. > > I resent any suggestion that I stand in the way of Linux and open source > advocacy or that what I do is meant to somehow derail its progress. I have > put more work, energy, and enthusiasm into helping bring Linux and open > source into the mainstream than most and I'll hold my record up to yours > any day. > > If you are offended by my warnings that breaking the law, trespassing, and > causing property damage are somehow barriers to open source advocacy, then > you've got some explaining to do. > > > duplicity. I intend to use my position as elected TLUG board member, > > and ubuntu-ca member, to foster co-operation between the "factions". > > ubuntu-ca is forming methods and policies to that effect, and I hope > > to see GTAlug and NEWtlug do the same. > > I'm not a 'faction'. I am, however, one who was deeply concerned about what > could have been a disaster for this community (assuming the CRN Canada > article was reporting on genuine intentions), a community I care deeply > about. I spoke out in hopes of preventing a potential public relations (not > to mention, legal) nightmare. > > > On that note, I would like to > > propose a meeting with representatives of each, to discuss ways of > > turning this "problem" into an opportunity. > > Still see this as a problem? -- Dave Sullivan dave-VvnUh7fPG/k7v45Mz1C67QC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org 647-235-0328 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From demsullivan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 01:55:46 2007 From: demsullivan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Sullivan) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 20:55:46 -0500 Subject: Linux People/Advocacy Projects.... In-Reply-To: <676586.34938.qm-iqFe0qLNPGCB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <676586.34938.qm@web88213.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200702092055.46765.demsullivan@gmail.com> On Friday 09 February 2007 4:53 pm, Colin McGregor wrote: > Well, let me note where things stand with advocacy > projects... > > I've been a bit slow on talking about the Linux World > Canada show (which is to be part of the IT360 show > this year at the Metro Convention Centre). Current > writing project is an item on RHEL5 (not yet released > to the general public). Any event, we have a deal with > the IT360 people, which means we will have a booth at > the show. I will be announcing a planning meeting once > I get clear of this project... > > Basically I would like a variation on what happened > last year (which over all worked out quite well). In > other words tweaks to formula that is working. Some > changes that may be coming down the pipe will be to > have our booth next to some other Linux advocacy > groups (CLUE? Linux International? etc.). > > I would also be happy to help start a ball rolling re: > Software Freedom day in September. Let's start by > asking questions like "What do we as a group want to > achieve from Software Freedom day?". Do we want to say > be encouraging the use of free software on any/all > platforms (to the point of say handing out CDs with > say Firefox for Windows)?. > > > Colin McGregor Hi Colin, Ubuntu Toronto whipped together a small event for Software Freedom Day last year. We handed out CDs and gave a small demo to a handful of people off the street. This year, I think it'd be great if the event could be a bit more high profile. Giving demos of free software -- not just on Linux -- would be ideal, I think. We could show off OpenOffice and Firefox running on Windows, and explain the benefits of them. It might even be a good idea to hand out copies of the Open CD, in addition to talking about Linux. For those who aren't yet ready to embrace a whole new OS, encouraging them to use free software on Windows is not a bad idea. Perhaps we should set up a face-to-face forum where members from various groups can meet to discuss this project. I've suggested that maybe we could alternate hosting these talks and discussions between TLUG meetings and Ubuntu Toronto meetings. Thoughts? -- Dave Sullivan dave-VvnUh7fPG/k7v45Mz1C67QC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org 647-235-0328 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 02:21:28 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 21:21:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Toshiba Satellite P100-MA1 In-Reply-To: <20070209230320.GV7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070209230320.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Fri, Feb 09, 2007 at 05:21:27PM -0500, Randy Jonasz wrote: | > After | > playing with xorg.conf I am able to use the 3d acceleration for intel | > 945GM Express video chipset. However the max resolution I have is | > 1280x800. | > (II) I810(0): Not using mode "1440x900" (no mode of this name) | You named the mode "1440x900 at 60" not "1440x900", so you have to use | 1440x900 at 60 in the Modes section as well, or change the modeline to not | have @60 in the name. Len's right. But there might be another problem. In the past, and probably still, the Intel chipset X video driver will only support resolutions that the BIOS supports (for a VGA mode). Stupidly, many laptops do not have a BIOS-supported resolution matching the native resolution of the display panel! There is a fudge to get around this: the program 915resolution. I think that Ubuntu actually includes this as an optional program. Roughly: - when invoked appropriately, it overwrites the RAM copy of the BIOS, replacing selected resolution entries. - invoking it this way is done best in something that gets run during booting like rc.local (I'm not sure if that is the right file on Ubuntu). The command "locate 915resolution" might be interesting (it is on my notebook with older Ubuntu.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 04:19:08 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 23:19:08 -0500 Subject: of Hackers, Newbies and Fanboys In-Reply-To: <200702091530.28005.mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200702091530.28005.mggagne@salmar.com> Message-ID: On 09/02/07, Marcel Gagne wrote: > > Hello David, > > I intended to reply in private but since you mentioned my name publicly, I'll > make my reply public as well. I'm sorry, Marcel, if you've been dragged into laundry day with the whole "David, please tell me you weren't part of this..." subject line. > Before you accuse Marcel of negative comments, read Marcel's email on this > subject a second time. I've said frightfully little on this subject I have re-read the threads and it seems I have over-reacted in assuming that you and the original poster were shoulder to shoulder, on this one. My very public apology, for that. It might have been better had the original post been sent to me privately. > > I said that IF the author of the CRN Canada article (who suggested attendees > were looking to trespass, disrupt, and cause property damage) was right in > what he overheard, then I believe it was an amazingly bad idea. The CRN story was amazingly wrong. Andrew McKay was in the room, but failed to eavesdrop with any degree of accuracy. Had he spoken up, we would have happily told him what we were up to. > I still think > that any event attended by Free Software enthusiasts that involves > trespassing on someone else's property and causing harm is a bad idea and I > won't back down from that point. I did, however, also suggest that talk > of "starting a fire" in the ice house, could just as easily be just that, > talk. Guys sitting around chatting over a beer or coffee have been known to > posture and make suggestions they would never carry out. I certainly agree that there lines that should not be crossed, but the grate between Dundas Sq and the sidewalk is not one of them. > > I resent any suggestion that I stand in the way of Linux and open source > advocacy or that what I do is meant to somehow derail its progress. I have > put more work, energy, and enthusiasm into helping bring Linux and open > source into the mainstream than most and I'll hold my record up to yours any > day. No need, Marcel, I concede ! Your contributions are undeniable. I was reading your articles long before I had dreamed of linuxcaffe and have nothing but respect for you and your work. > > If you are offended by my warnings that breaking the law, trespassing, and > causing property damage are somehow barriers to open source advocacy, then > you've got some explaining to do. Your warnings were so far off the mark, in this case, that they were irrelevant. I think we can all agree that crime is not a viable option in our quest for Software Freedom. We'll leave that to the super-villains. > Still see this as a problem? not with you, amigo, but if we can't cleanse our collective palate of any inter-LUG bitterness, we'll never taste the sweetness of real co-operation. The ubuntu-toronto volunteers made direct contact with hundreds of pedestrians, who walked away with CDs and or info sheets. Dozens of gleeful photos were takenwith Big Tux, some by wild linux geeks, some by folks who thought the penguin was cute. Thousands of Torontonians saw a giant linux penguin, that weekend, and even the police officers at the event left with CDs and new ideas about their personal software choices. Tens of thousands of unique web visitors (and counting) so all in all, I think it it was a success. No crimes were committed, no harm done, and anything said beyond what we did was merely that; silly talk between friends in (what we thought was) private. Let's just have a giggle, pat the fanboyzandgrrlz on the back, recognize each others strengths and weaknesses, and move on to something... even MORE outrageous ! ;-) djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 05:42:55 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 00:42:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Recommend a video card? In-Reply-To: <20070209210910.GT7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070209202347.GE632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070209210910.GT7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | DVI implies not old. | Open Source 3D implies old as far as I can tell. The two "old"s are different. I have ATI 9000 and 9250 cards with DVI connectors. Both are quite well supported by open (community written) drivers. These are the last cards for which ATI released good specs (as I understand it). Not 100%: TVout is only supported by a hack, one that isn't adopted by xorg. | Cheap implies old or at least low end which often implies no DVI. My 9250 cards cost $20 or $30 (I'm a bargain hunter). | You can get ATI 9200 cards (AGP or PCI) with 128MB refurbished from | ATI's online store, although they are VGA only, not DVI. The open | source driver for that may be functional for what you want. Example of an AGP card that is probably available (they might be out of stock): http://www.factorydirect.ca/catalog/product_spec.php?pcode=AT0925 | The R3xx based cards (9500 to X8xx) seem to be starting to work, but not | fully for some features. So perhaps a 9550 or something (also available | refurbished) is an option. They do have VGA and DVI it appears. I wonder how well that is going. I'm conservative about this, but hopeful. It is actually in recently released version of xorg. Note: all this support appears to be the fruit of reverse engineering. The nouveau project aims to create the first open-source 3d support for nVidia cards. Early days: http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FrontPage My impressions: - The kind of bus affects your choice (PCI, AGP, or PCIe, in historical order). - If you need dual-link DVI (unlikely), only newer cards will do. - for open source drivers, ATI cards up to 9250 are good: they actually have 3d acceleration. Dual head support. - at least until recently, open source drivers did not support ATI X1000 series at all (well, the VESA driver would, but only at BIOS-supported resolutions, and there is no hack equivalent to 915resolution) - most or all nVidia cards are well supported in 2d by open source drivers. No 3d support. No dual head (I think). - nVidia proprietary drivers seem to be better than ATI proprietary drivers My experiences have been mixed. I recently tried proprietary drivers for the first time. I was trying to get TVout working on a Myth box (with only PCI slots). The built-in Intel video controller didn't have a composite out (for TV). I tried both the ATI Radeon 9250 and an nVidia FX 5200 plus cards. - open-source nVidia seemed like a bad idea: hardware acceleration (not available with the open source driver) seemed useful for decoding MPEG-2 videos. Also, no TVout option as far as I know. Note: I didn't actually test this option. - the closed source nVidia driver worked reasonably well for a while. There was a bit of herring-bone pattern artifact on the TV. Then, just after the start of the year, the X server started hanging during the playing of videos (perhaps 10 minutes in). This appeared to be from some Ubuntu update that I installed after Christmas. Debugging the closed source driver was not easy. I gave up. - the closed source ATI driver almost worked. Unfortunately there was a bug whereby the Xv overlay was stretched and truncated. No fix will be forthcoming because more recent ATI drivers (since last summer) no longer support the 9250. - I ended up with the standard open source ATI driver + a patch from Gatos to do TV out. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 08:26:25 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 09:26:25 +0100 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <20070208182203.381eafbd@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45CBB86B.9070802@yahoo.ca> <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <45CD81B1.2060008@visible-assets.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > The only thing we cannot do under Linux these days are PCB layout and > routing. As a matter of habit, I use Electronic Workbench under Windows > for circuit simulation, but I believe there is a linux-based alternative > now. > I've laid out & routed a board with Eagle (although for the full version it costs something - http://www.cadsoft.de/prices.htm ). The board had sram, an FPGA, a linear regulator, several connectors. Jim at Ryerson actually machine cut the board for me. I can't remember exactly what the smallest trace dimension was, but I used eagle, and his smallest trace dimension, and it worked :) Still, I suppose it can only beat something like OrCAD in price :P ~/Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 08:37:44 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 09:37:44 +0100 Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <200702082303.05124.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBDDF9.4040607@telly.org> <200702082303.05124.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <45CD8458.3080308@visible-assets.com> OpenOffice has done a pretty good job at convincing loads of people to switch office software. I use it regularly, and although I still find a few odds and ends that could be fixed, I'm happy enough with it. Now if someone only did that same sort of 'ISO standardized XML format' thing they did w/ the open document format, but to groupware instead. That would be pretty great. I absolutely loathe groupware in any case... outlook, groupwise... even evolution i'm sad to say. Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Thursday 08 February 2007 21:35, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >>>> I spent about a month struggling with it until I finally gave up. >>>> IMO, Evolution is good for one thing: showing Windows users how bad >>>> Open Source software can be. >>> Is that because it tries to emulate Outlook? >> The client/server connection between Outlook and Exchange uses MAPI as >> its protocol instead of POP or IMAP. > > And evolution-exchange uses webdav (emulating what outlook web access does), > > I've also tried evolution-exchange and my experience was pretty awful. > Stephen in an email a little while ago mentioned evolution-brutus which > sounds interesting unfortunately it seems like evolution-brutus is a server > which must be set up on a Windows server. > > If you are given an exchange server I don't think there's any way around it. > Use outlook, use a blackberry (if you have blackberry enterprise server) or > use outlook web access. I use rdesktop to login to a Windows server and run > outlook natively from there. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 08:57:32 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 09:57:32 +0100 Subject: xen virtualization and linux distros Message-ID: <45CD88FC.6030303@visible-assets.com> Hi everyone, My company would like to set up some virtualization on one of our multi-processor / multi-core server machines, using Xen. I've heard excellent things about Xen. The question is, which 'distro' should one use with it. I've been a gentooer for quite a while now, and believe that it's pretty great, even for server administration. The Xen / Gentoo documentation is pretty good, and they've apparently even done it somehow so that when you make a new image, it doesn't have to be a whole distro - only some basic necessities. This is sort of a survey, but does anyone have experience using Xen for virtualization? If so, which flavour of linux was used? Are there any dis / advantages that can be highlighted? ~/Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 10:45:47 2007 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 05:45:47 -0500 Subject: Small format factor 486-PI/PII needed for ipcop firewall Message-ID: <45CDA25B.6070809@knet.ca> I am looking for a small form factor 486/Pentium I/II. If you have one that is collecting dust, let me know offlist. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 12:56:35 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 07:56:35 -0500 Subject: xen virtualization and linux distros In-Reply-To: <45CD88FC.6030303-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <45CD88FC.6030303@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <200702100756.35598.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Saturday 10 February 2007 03:57, Christopher Friedt wrote: > I've heard excellent things about Xen. The question is, which 'distro' > should one use with it. Depends what you want to run on it (any commercial apps?) and what distros you are most comfortable with. Then of course there's the state of Xen support for that distro. RHEL5 is scheduled for release very soon and I expect it will have some of the better Xen support once it's out. SLES10 (and some of their free distros have it). > I've been a gentooer for quite a while now, and believe that it's pretty > great, even for server administration. The Xen / Gentoo documentation is > pretty good, and they've apparently even done it somehow so that when > you make a new image, it doesn't have to be a whole distro - only some > basic necessities. Any Xen host can have that. It's called copy-on-write filesystem, the underlying technology is just a writeable LVM snapshot - unless something new has come along. If you are most comfortable with gentoo and it fits the business purpose then gentoo would probably be a good choice. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 13:34:28 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 08:34:28 -0500 Subject: Virtualization on Debian Message-ID: <45CDC9E4.9060600@pppoe.ca> Hi All It was suggested that we look into virtualization. At present, there are 3 servers running Debian (2 stable and 1 unstable). The boxes are running Apache, MySQL and PHP. I've some reading material lined up and then noticed the thread "xen virtualization and linux distros" start up. Not wanting to "hijack" the thread (the distro will remain Debian), I'm asking for some help. Are virtual servers common in production systems now? More to the point, what is your experience? What to look at first (Xen or other options) using a Debian system? Any gotchas to look out for? I'm looking for some pointers to start off with. Thanks in advance. Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 17:42:09 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:42:09 -0500 Subject: Mythtery: Rogers Cable channel lineup changes for Toronto In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200702101242.09551.mervc@eol.ca> On Friday 09 February 2007 19:51, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | Here's what worked for me: > > Actually, I spoke too soon. > > All the new channels were added but the replaced channels remained. > To be concrete, Rogers replaced 3 channels: > 37: CNNH replaced by BBCW > 48: SPCCAN replaced by TCMC > 55 CNBCC replaced by AMCCAN > > Zap2it got this right. > > MythTV thinks both sets of channels co-exist (according the the > channel guide). > I did a new backend install after updating zap2it. So my database was just new and just fine. Had you deleted your old one you might have been fortunate too? I notice on Zap2it's companion listings site, tvlistings.zap2it.com, that I can get a listing for Rogers Digital. I don't see that option for the area we are interested in. Have you seen a hint there that I haven't? Now going through 500 channels is a drag at 30 channels per page, I can't imagine doing it in mythtv at 6 channels per page. We can jump to any channel, something I haven't figured out at 'tvlistings', nor have I found their sorting to be any great shakes. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 18:19:31 2007 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:19:31 -0500 Subject: Small format factor 486-PI/PII needed for ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <45CDA25B.6070809-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <45CDA25B.6070809@knet.ca> Message-ID: <45CE0CB3.9030101@sympatico.ca> Teddy David Mills wrote: > > I am looking for a small form factor 486/Pentium I/II. > If you have one that is collecting dust, let me know offlist. Teddy, I may have something, although getting it to you may be a chore (or maybe not). Let me know if you still need it and I'll check my surplus stuff. A 486 at least should be no problem to find. John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 19:08:52 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:08:52 -0500 Subject: time sinchronization In-Reply-To: <45CD81B1.2060008-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <45CD81B1.2060008@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <200702101408.52494.softquake@gmail.com> It did work on my computers in the past. Now, I maintain ubuntu server. That, it seemed, trivial thing, does not look trivial anymore. Would someone be kind enough to write a short, basic recipe for that? What, if any, software should I install? Which ports should be opened? How to synchronize from command line? Is time.nsrc.ca appropriate for using? zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 19:53:21 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:53:21 -0500 Subject: time sinchronization In-Reply-To: <200702101408.52494.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <45CD81B1.2060008@visible-assets.com> <200702101408.52494.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070210195321.GG632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Sat, Feb 10, 2007 at 02:08:52PM -0500, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > >It did work on my computers in the past. > >Now, I maintain ubuntu server. That, it seemed, trivial thing, does not look >trivial anymore. > >Would someone be kind enough to write a short, basic recipe for that? > >What, if any, software should I install? Which ports should be opened? How to >synchronize from command line? Is time.nsrc.ca appropriate for using? I recommend ntpdate. I run the following via cron on an hourly basis: ntpdate pool.ntp.org tock.utoronto.ca is also a good choice. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 20:26:02 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 15:26:02 -0500 Subject: time sinchronization In-Reply-To: <20070210195321.GG632-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <45CD81B1.2060008@visible-assets.com> <200702101408.52494.softquake@gmail.com> <20070210195321.GG632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990702101226u10e86163ka1d403f10d5a67c4@mail.gmail.com> On 2/10/07, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > tock.utoronto.ca is also a good choice. I thought that was the backup, and that tick.utoronto.ca was the primary.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 20:31:05 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 15:31:05 -0500 Subject: xen virtualization and linux distros In-Reply-To: <45CD88FC.6030303-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <45CD88FC.6030303@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <200702101531.07095.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Saturday 10 February 2007 03:57, Christopher Friedt wrote: > Hi everyone, > > My company would like to set up some virtualization on one of our > multi-processor / multi-core server machines, using Xen. > > I've heard excellent things about Xen. The question is, which > 'distro' should one use with it. > > I've been a gentooer for quite a while now, and believe that it's > pretty great, even for server administration. The Xen / Gentoo > documentation is pretty good, and they've apparently even done it > somehow so that when you make a new image, it doesn't have to be a > whole distro - only some basic necessities. > > > This is sort of a survey, but does anyone have experience using Xen > for virtualization? > > If so, which flavour of linux was used? I integrated Xen 2x with Mandriva in June, 2005 and have been happily using it ever since. Getting Xen to run on any distro isn't that hard. The real work was in integrating it with the networking and firewalling scripts, Shorewall in Mandriva's case, Mandriva's msec system, dealing with issues related to not having access to the bare metal from the virtual machines, and so on. At the time, the only distros that integrated Xen were Suse and Fedora Core and "minimal" installations of either weighed in at a porky 800 MB. My Mandriva dom0 is 210 MB and runs fine with only 64 MB of RAM allocated to it. I could get that even smaller if I did away with urpmi, which I won't. On top of that dom0, I run Mandriva Gentoo, CentOS, and Debian Etch, Ubuntu. You can run whatever distro you like in a domU (virtual machine). > Are there any dis / advantages that can be highlighted? I spent a fair amount of time on the Xen IRC channel and have found the people there extremely knowledgeable and helpful. I have no complaints with Xen. OpenVZ is another option I had looked at last year. It seemed like I could put more virtual machines on a given box (without overloading it) due to the way that OpenVZ allocates resources compared to Xen but I have never put anything into production. Xen has better isolation between virtual machines but in most hosting scenarios, that difference is negligible. When I tried OpenVZ, it was with a Fedora Core 5 kernel. I submitted a bug report when I got stack dumps on boot even before modules were loaded. This led to an interesting conversation on IRC with one of the lead developers who said that in production, they prefer RHEL/CentOS because its product lifetime is 5-7 years. He said that Red Hat backports security fixes to their stable kernel so it is mature and contains only required fixes. He said that distros like Fedora and OpenSuse often include kernels that are not ready for production so new bugs are introduced constantly. He had no opinion on Debian because he didn't use it. Take that conversation with a grain of salt because it was on May 30, 2006 so things could have changed since then, though I don't think the Fedora or OpenSuse situation is any different today or ever will be given that both are bleeding edge distros. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 21:48:15 2007 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 16:48:15 -0500 Subject: time sinchronization In-Reply-To: <1e55af990702101226u10e86163ka1d403f10d5a67c4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <45CD81B1.2060008@visible-assets.com> <200702101408.52494.softquake@gmail.com> <20070210195321.GG632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1e55af990702101226u10e86163ka1d403f10d5a67c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1171144095.16607.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> On Sat, 2007-02-10 at 15:26 -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > On 2/10/07, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > > tock.utoronto.ca is also a good choice. > > I thought that was the backup, and that tick.utoronto.ca was the primary.. I go right to the official source: time.nrc.ca, the National Research Council of Canada's atomic clock. Ken B. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 22:00:25 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 17:00:25 -0500 Subject: time sinchronization In-Reply-To: <200702101408.52494.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <45CD81B1.2060008@visible-assets.com> <200702101408.52494.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2/10/07, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > It did work on my computers in the past. > > Now, I maintain ubuntu server. That, it seemed, trivial thing, does not look > trivial anymore. I might wildly guess that this may be a case where Debian has introduced several packages and put some common config into one or two of them such that "fighting with the distribution" is getting you into frustration. > Would someone be kind enough to write a short, basic recipe for that? 1. Install ntp apt-get install ntp 2. Make sure it has some servers listed in /etc/ntp.conf There is a global pool of over 100 NTP servers that provide round-robin services via DNS; if you specify "pool.ntp.org", you'll use that pool, and not flood anybody. > What, if any, software should I install? ntp >Which ports should be opened? Port 123 needs to be open to UDP traffic. > How to synchronize from command line? For that, you need to install the separate package, ntpdate. If ntpd is NOT running, you can, as root, run: ntpdate pool.ntp.org pool.ntp.org myhost.org yourhost.org ... > Is time.nsrc.ca appropriate for using? Probably not, unless you're setting time for a large set of servers. You should probably use pool.ntp.org instead. Another entertaining option is to consider backtracing the servers nearby you in your network. For instance, if I trace a route out to somewhere (say slashdot), I find a whole bunch of routers in the way. Many of them are Cisco routers that are running NTP. knuth:~# traceroute slashdot.org traceroute to slashdot.org (66.35.250.150), 30 hops max, 52 byte packets 1 godel (192.168.1.1) 0.369 ms 0.300 ms 0.298 ms 2 64.230.197.235 (64.230.197.235) 52.002 ms 52.169 ms 50.934 ms 3 dis26-toronto63_Vlan112.net.bell.ca (64.230.222.81) 49.018 ms 47.679 ms 50.631 ms 4 core4-toronto63_GE5-2.net.bell.ca (64.230.207.105) 51.990 ms 49.893 ms 50.249 ms 5 core1-chicago23_pos12-0-0.net.bell.ca (64.230.147.14) 60.330 ms 61.197 ms 57.883 ms 6 bx4-chicago23_POS3-0.net.bell.ca (64.230.203.50) 63.479 ms 60.386 ms 59.579 ms 7 dcr1-so-3-1-0.chicago.savvis.net (208.175.10.85) 60.268 ms 59.505 ms 93.675 ms 8 dcr2-so-2-0-0.Denver.savvis.net (204.70.192.133) 83.555 ms 85.276 ms 84.046 ms 9 dcr1-so-2-0-0.SanFranciscosfo.savvis.net (204.70.192.114) 126.579 ms 128.396 ms 161.049 ms 10 dcr2-so-5-0-0.SanFranciscosfo.savvis.net (204.70.192.150) 126.611 ms 126.159 ms 124.423 ms 11 bhr1-pos-0-0.SantaClarasc8.savvis.net (208.172.156.198) 128.546 ms 125.492 ms 127.232 ms 12 csr1-ve243.santaclarasc8.savvis.net (66.35.194.50) 129.895 ms 128.189 ms 132.192 ms 13 66.35.212.174 (66.35.212.174) 132.563 ms 174.111 ms 128.656 ms 14 slashdot.org (66.35.250.150) 135.238 ms !C 128.849 ms !C 129.558 ms !C Turning this into an ntpdate request: knuth:~# ntpdate `traceroute slashdot.org 2> /dev/null | awk '{print $2}' | tr '()' ' ' ` 10 Feb 16:50:43 ntpdate[19518]: adjust time server 208.172.156.198 offset 0.000835 sec I'm not sure that's 100% 'kosher,' but if argued with, I could argue that these servers all volunteered to carry my traffic. The argument would be stronger if I restricted the list to the Bell servers nearby, as I'm paying them for Internet services... At any rate, I'd suggest trying to have some diverse set of servers that *aren't* all the same tick/tock @ U(T). FYI, it seems like a waste of time to me to try to find a server geographically nearby. When I run traceroute, I find that I need to go thru Chicago to get back to anything at U(T). That's going to be common for anyone using Bell Sympatico. I wouldn't be surprised if Rogers users would discover similar to be true. It appears that Sympatico hasn't any connections to the Toronto Internet Exchange (torix.net), which seems silly to me; there ought to be value to having direct quick access to geographically nearby servers around Toronto. Of course, they've never been accused of being particularly bright... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 10 23:46:01 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 18:46:01 -0500 Subject: time sinchronization In-Reply-To: References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <200702101408.52494.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200702101846.03427.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Saturday 10 February 2007 17:00, Christopher Browne wrote: [snip] > FYI, it seems like a waste of time to me to try to find a server > geographically nearby. When I run traceroute, I find that I need > to go thru Chicago to get back to anything at U(T). That's going > to be common for anyone using Bell Sympatico. I wouldn't be > surprised if Rogers users would discover similar to be true. Rogers has decent peering. It's five hops on the Rogers network, all in Toronto, before I get to Torix and another three to U of T from there. A couple more hops on the U of T network, and I'm at the end of the line. > It appears that Sympatico hasn't any connections to the Toronto > Internet Exchange (torix.net), which seems silly to me; there ought > to be value to having direct quick access to geographically nearby > servers around Toronto. Of course, they've never been accused of > being particularly bright... That they make Rogers look good says a lot about the sad state of competition, or lack thereof, in this market. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 11 00:00:02 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 19:00:02 -0500 Subject: time sinchronization In-Reply-To: <1171144095.16607.2.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <45CD81B1.2060008@visible-assets.com> <200702101408.52494.softquake@gmail.com> <20070210195321.GG632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1e55af990702101226u10e86163ka1d403f10d5a67c4@mail.gmail.com> <1171144095.16607.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <45CE5C82.6060101@telly.org> Ken Burtch wrote: > On Sat, 2007-02-10 at 15:26 -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > >> On 2/10/07, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> >>> tock.utoronto.ca is also a good choice. >>> >> I thought that was the backup, and that tick.utoronto.ca was the primary.. >> > > I go right to the official source: time.nrc.ca, the National Research > Council of Canada's atomic clock. > When you install Ubuntu's ntp services, it automatically includes a pointer to the site ntp.ubuntu.com . It works, but relay times from Canada are pretty long. NRC actually maintains two separate time servers, in separate locations on separate networks, and both are available to the public: time.nrc.ca time.chu.nrc.ca NRC also provides authenticated services for a fee. More info on its time synchronization services can be found at http://inms-ienm.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/time_services/network_time_protocol_e.html (BTW, this document also indicates that the NRC's stratum-1 servers -- the ones talking directly to the atomic clocks -- run Linux.) If you're only using one, I'd follow Ken's suggestion and sync to time.nrc.ca. But /etc/ntp.conf (or /etc/ntp/ntp.conf, depending on your ditribution) can be configured to have multiple servers for redudancy. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 11 00:31:13 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 19:31:13 -0500 Subject: xen virtualization and linux distros In-Reply-To: <200702100756.35598.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <45CD88FC.6030303@visible-assets.com> <200702100756.35598.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: So far I've gotten Xen on FC6 working. there's some warts, but for the most part it works. So questions I plan on running a database server on one of the guests. How much overhead is there in the disk device driver ? Also is there a way to get access to a physical ethernet interface in the guest ? I have 3 on the machine, might as well use them Any comments on how robust they are ? Dave On 10-Feb-07, at 7:56 AM, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Saturday 10 February 2007 03:57, Christopher Friedt wrote: > >> I've heard excellent things about Xen. The question is, which >> 'distro' >> should one use with it. > > Depends what you want to run on it (any commercial apps?) and what > distros you > are most comfortable with. Then of course there's the state of Xen > support > for that distro. RHEL5 is scheduled for release very soon and I > expect it > will have some of the better Xen support once it's out. SLES10 > (and some of > their free distros have it). > >> I've been a gentooer for quite a while now, and believe that it's >> pretty >> great, even for server administration. The Xen / Gentoo >> documentation is >> pretty good, and they've apparently even done it somehow so that when >> you make a new image, it doesn't have to be a whole distro - only >> some >> basic necessities. > > Any Xen host can have that. It's called copy-on-write filesystem, the > underlying technology is just a writeable LVM snapshot - unless > something new > has come along. > > If you are most comfortable with gentoo and it fits the business > purpose then > gentoo would probably be a good choice. > > -- > Fraser Campbell http:// > www.wehave.net/ > Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian > GNU/Linux > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 11 00:44:05 2007 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 19:44:05 -0500 Subject: time sinchronization In-Reply-To: <200702101408.52494.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <45CD81B1.2060008@visible-assets.com> <200702101408.52494.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2/10/07, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > > It did work on my computers in the past. > > Now, I maintain ubuntu server. That, it seemed, trivial thing, does not > look > trivial anymore. > > Would someone be kind enough to write a short, basic recipe for that? > > What, if any, software should I install? Which ports should be opened? How > to > synchronize from command line? Is time.nsrc.ca appropriate for using? > > zb. > -- > On Ubuntu the packages you want are: ntpdate (for one off updates), ntp-server, ntp-simple, and ntp. ntp-server is the one you're likely looking for, the others should be installed as dependencies. For some reason, Ubuntu doesn't install the ntp daemon by default, just ntpdate which it uses once daily I think. Then edit the /etc/ntp.conf file to your taste. time.nrc.ca, tick/tock.utoronto.ca, ca.pool.ntp.org and [0-2].north-america.pool.ntp.orgare all good choices for ntp servers to sync to. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 11 00:53:27 2007 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 19:53:27 -0500 Subject: Mythtery: Rogers Cable channel lineup changes for Toronto In-Reply-To: <200702101242.09551.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200702101242.09551.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: I managed to fix this. I logged into zap2it, deleted my lineup, saved, and then recreated it. Next, I stopped the backend, loaded up mythtv-setup, and deleted my capture cards, video sources, and input connections. Saved that. Then started mythtv-setup and recreated them. I was probably a little over-zealous about what you have to delete in mythtv-setup, but for my setup it's easy to recreate it. You could probably get away with just deleting your video sources and input connections, but keeping your capture cards. Mike On 2/10/07, Merv Curley wrote: > > On Friday 09 February 2007 19:51, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > | Here's what worked for me: > > > > Actually, I spoke too soon. > > > > All the new channels were added but the replaced channels remained. > > To be concrete, Rogers replaced 3 channels: > > 37: CNNH replaced by BBCW > > 48: SPCCAN replaced by TCMC > > 55 CNBCC replaced by AMCCAN > > > > Zap2it got this right. > > > > MythTV thinks both sets of channels co-exist (according the the > > channel guide). > > > I did a new backend install after updating zap2it. So my database was > just > new and just fine. Had you deleted your old one you might have been > fortunate too? > > I notice on Zap2it's companion listings site, tvlistings.zap2it.com, that > I > can get a listing for Rogers Digital. I don't see that option for the > area > we are interested in. Have you seen a hint there that I haven't? > > Now going through 500 channels is a drag at 30 channels per page, I can't > imagine doing it in mythtv at 6 channels per page. We can jump to any > channel, something I haven't figured out at 'tvlistings', nor have I found > their sorting to be any great shakes. > > -- > Merv Curley > Toronto, Ont. Can > > SuSE 10.2 Linux > Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 11 02:14:22 2007 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 21:14:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <200702071839.09452.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200702071839.09452.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <736009.4118.qm@web61324.mail.yahoo.com> --- CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On Wednesday 07 February 2007 18:34, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > On Wednesday 07 February 2007 15:06, Michael MacLeod wrote: > > > On 2/6/07, ted leslie wrote: > > > > On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 12:12 -0500, Aaron Vegh wrote: > > > > But there are two things that I think are brain dead on a > Mac, > > > > 1) why is every apps tool bar on the very top of the screen, > > > > I have been an apple user since about 1981, and certainly > when > > > > i got my first 128MB Mac, with only running a few apps, and a > > > > small screen, having a common top pull down menu panel was > OK. > > > > Fast forward to this century, and people have 20-30 > > > > apps/windows open, and i don't want to be going to the top of > > > > the screen for my menus all the time. > > > > > > I'm sorry, but the single menu bar at the top of the screen is > > > the Right Way (tm) to do it. I can always find it, even if I'm > > > not looking at the screen. I use linux, windows, and mac os x > > > about equally right now, and I can't tell you how much I wish > for > > > a single menu bar in ubuntu. But on the other hand when you have overlapping windows, the only way to ensure that you are working on the right window is if the menu bar is tied to the windows rather than at the top which is common for all. You really got to be a meticulus user to not make mistake using a menu for one window thinking you are using it for another one. But then, if you do what I do, maximize window to avoid window confusion, then you will have the menu bar always at the top. I don't think the Right Way (tm) is really the right way :-) EK __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 11 03:11:50 2007 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 22:11:50 -0500 Subject: Small format factor 486-PI/PII needed for ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <45CE0CB3.9030101-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <45CDA25B.6070809@knet.ca> <45CE0CB3.9030101@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <45CE8976.2060002@sympatico.ca> John Moniz wrote: > Teddy David Mills wrote: > >> >> I am looking for a small form factor 486/Pentium I/II. >> If you have one that is collecting dust, let me know offlist. > > > Teddy, I may have something, although getting it to you may be a chore > (or maybe not). Let me know if you still need it and I'll check my > surplus stuff. A 486 at least should be no problem to find. > > John. Sorry folks, I was sure I had sent this off list. John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 11 03:39:23 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 22:39:23 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <736009.4118.qm-kR5ePFgau4uA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <200702071839.09452.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <736009.4118.qm@web61324.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990702101939q761b7889l7f117a863e427f4b@mail.gmail.com> On 2/10/07, E K wrote: > You really got to be a meticulus user to not make mistake using a > menu for one window thinking you are using it for another one. But > then, if you do what I do, maximize window to avoid window confusion, > then you will have the menu bar always at the top. Maximized windows doesn't work when you have a screen so large you have to turn your head to see one side or the other side of a window. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 11 16:08:45 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:08:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fwd: Re:Mythtery: Rogers Cable channel lineup changes for Toronto Message-ID: <74952.54712.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Michael MacLeod wrote: > I managed to fix this. I logged into zap2it, deleted > my lineup, saved, and > then recreated it. Next, I stopped the backend, > loaded up mythtv-setup, and > deleted my capture cards, video sources, and input > connections. Saved that. > Then started mythtv-setup and recreated them. I was > probably a little > over-zealous about what you have to delete in > mythtv-setup, but for my setup > it's easy to recreate it. You could probably get > away with just deleting > your video sources and input connections, but > keeping your capture cards. Yes, this is about what I ended up having to do. Big issue seems to be that mythbackend MUST be shut down before you make changes to channel line-up, otherwise wierdness happens. The wierdness I saw before going in to kill and re-creating things was channel listings were shifted in the program grid, so listings for channel 2 showed up for channel 3, channel 3 appeared by channel 4 etc.. Now, all fixed. I did use the whole exercise to also drop in channel icons, I trust all the local MythTV users know about: http://www.lyngsat-logo.com/ Through the above you can find the logos for the vast majority of channels available via Rogers (though with some you will have hunt a bit, like the TV Guide channel logo is under USA, etc.). Now, some channels I don't directly care about the station logo, for example I don't care about the CBLT Toronto logo, all I care about is that station is a CBC station, thus my use of the CBC logo, NOT the CBLT logo. The only logo I couldn't find via the above was for VoicePrint, but I just grabbed that from: http://www.voiceprintcanada.com/index.php Then I dropped all the logos into: /home/mythtv/.mythtv/channels/ and entered the appropriate info. into the channel line-up. Trick that I have used that I hope will make life easier in future, when setting up the icon files, I put them into a subdirectory under /home/mythtv/.mythtv/channels/ and then used symlinks to connect the name used by Zap2It and the "real" file. this way I can enter under the channel info. in myth-setup the icon /home/mythtv/.mythtv/channels/cblt and have the 'cblt" file point to what ever image I want to appear on screen. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 11 17:11:17 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:11:17 -0500 Subject: Linux Advocacy in Toronto -- pt 1 In-Reply-To: <002701c74c00$0962cf50$0300a8c0@Fred> References: <002701c74c00$0962cf50$0300a8c0@Fred> Message-ID: <45CF4E35.7040704@telly.org> [ Please forgive the length of this -- I'm trying to combine thoughts from a dozen different directions here, and I have neither the will nor the cycles to write a dozen different responses. I've broken this message into two parts -- one is what I hope to be seen as a reasonable analysis of the landscape, the other a proposed model for moving forward. If it's indeed believed that I'm an obstacle to progress as David suggests, I'll gladly back out and shut up. But I've spent my last 25 years committed to the advocacy of open source (and before that, open systems) and have a mesaurable track record of success, so I think my POV has some merit. What I say here -- and indeed have said previously -- are not the views of CLUE or any other organization, but those of myself as a long-time participant in the support and advocacy of Linux in Toronto.] Hi Jane, > When I first became interested in Open Source advocacy, I found out about > CLUE, but CLUE seems to be involved mainly with the government and policy > makers. That's accurate. CLUE is not at all a user group. > There really doesn't seem be a group or organization that's focused on the promotion of FOSS to the public in the GTA. I think it's unfair to say that GTALUG hasn't been involved in advocacy issues. TLUG people have distributed what by now must be tens of thousands of CDs to the public, been active in attracting _positive_ media coverage, operated open houses in the Toronto Linux Centre (until the landlord wanted to use the building as a location for movie shoots) and was a cornerstone participant in the world's first-ever National Installfest. My point is that advocacy and promotion take many forms, and some forms are far more effeicient than others given the community's limited resources. And while it's quite legitimate to ask "what have you done lately?", it's also important not to be ignorant of important work of the past that illustrates GTALUG's traditional advocacy aims. It's just that elaborate events things like those -- that attract people to come to us, and have provably positive results -- take planning and resources and infrastructure. Sure, anyone can stand at Yonge and Dundas and hand out CDs with zero planning, and I'm sure there is a sense of accomplishment in doing so and maybe even some good responses. But there you're on the level with the Jehovahs Witnesses across the street. Lots of people take the copies of Watchtower offered to them for free, but that doesn't mean they'll convert. Torontonians are a generally polite bunch, they'll tell you they're interested and then go looking for the nearest trash bin. And, pardon me for the ambition, but I would like to see the use of open source to be more commonplace than the practise of JW. In addition -- like it or not -- the activity _did_ achieve negative publicity, in a media outlet read by tens of thousands of people who themselves have real influence over what people put on their PCs. Amongst all the gnashing of teeth in this mailing list about bad journalism, has anyone written a letter to the editor in response? There should have been an immediate answer; with the right connections (which we have) the rebuttal would have achieved equal exposure to the original slur. I believe that it is important for FOSS advocates to keep in mind that there are elaborate and well-financed efforts to destroy and demean what we do. Many of their previous tactics have failed, but their resources are deep and the will of FOSS's opponents are possibly as strong as those of its advocates. It must be anticipated that strangers will eavedrop, that activities will be scrutinized, and that opportunities to nillify the benefits of our efforts will be taken just as we seek to counter a Windows publicity stunt with a Linux counter-stunt. My personal frustration at seeing ubuntu-toronto and TLUG moving independently in parallel is because I really think both could -- and should -- benefit from each other. In GTALUG you have a dedicated bunch that have a proven track record of putting on successful events, and an infrastructure able to execute and begging for something to do. Its people have been around long enough to have a sense of what works and what doesn't. Heck it even has some financial resources to back projects and an established reputation for advocacy. However, many of its core people have been around for a very long time, there is a definite wane in imagination, and it is critically in need of new blood. In Ubuntu Toronto I see that same passion and enthusiasm that drove many of the GTALUG pioneers when they first got involved. I see the phenomenal potential to inject new ideas and new passion into the greater community. However, I also see that this group, in its current isolation has no sense of history, and seems inclined to impulsive, low-effort activities of dubious effectiveness. (Now, having said that, measuring effectiveness depends on the goals. If the goal of the Yonge & Dundas event was to get peer recognition, it was indeed a success. But peer recognition was never what I understood its goals to be.) There are SO MANY things that need doing that could offer big payouts related to the promotion of FOSS in Toronto: - A web portal at which the interested and the curious can see case studies of Toronto businesses and public agencies that use open source solutions (especially those involving migrations from Windows) - A business directory of Toronto-based FOSS-centric vendors and service providers - Liaison, communications and collaboration with IT/CS departments in the GTA's four universities and six community colleges - Advocacy within the GTA's city and regional governments as well as its school boards - Working with local PC makers to encourage the optional pre-installation of Linux (this involves both advocacy and support) - Support for people trying to advocate FOSS within their organizations (such as the Scarborough high school teacher who got his Linux lab closed down by the principal) - Awareness and liaison with the area media's technology reporters, and a knowledge of who's fair, who's positive and who's out to bash us - A chronicle of local open source activities and projects Any one of these activities could have a significant impact on the local acceptance of FOSS. But they take planning and ongoing committment, the antithesis of the spur-of-the-moment event at Yonge & Dundas. They take the COMBINATION of youthful energy and experience-based wisdom that I presently see moving in parallel and out of touch with each other. This is truly an example in which the whole has the potential to be greater than the sum of the parts. If you look at the _goals_ of Ubuntu Toronto and GTALUG you'll find staggering amounts of common purpose. The styles and tactics are different, but the actual objectives are nearly identical. (Of course, the Ubuntu group wants to promote Ubuntu, but it's hard to get buy-in for any specific distribution if the target is hostile to Linux.) My own frustrations have been with the lack of awareness of how much each group can benefit from working with the other. The young 'uns can benefit from the wisdom and resources of the local establishment, and the old farts can certainly benefit from the occasional kick in the pants to be more active. How to do this? The first step, as many people have said here, is communications. Perhaps, had TLUG been advised of the Yonge & Dundas event, it might have been even better. Certainly someone with some experience might have pointed out that you need a permit to do something like inflate a big Tux in a public square. Or maybe someone would have had access to slick pamphlets, or been able to print up buttons, etc. etc. Instead, the first I'd heard about the event was from the CRN article, which was hardly flattering. Folks said they needed to act fast, and didn't have time to alert the rest of us -- is that really the kind of planning an event like this deserves? I'm absolutely delighted to see so many people interested in Software Freedom Day. In past years they've had events in Montr?al to commemorate it and I'd love to see it spread. Indeed, between CLUE and GTALUG, there might even be some money available. In the meantime, I have a suggestion for a model -- that has worked extremely well for a variety of groups within the realm of IT and outside -- that I believe may help the community move forward together while recognizing a diversity of interests and approaches. More on that in part two of this message. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 11 17:14:43 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:14:43 -0500 Subject: Linux Advocacy in Toronto -- pt 2 Message-ID: <45CF4F03.6000801@telly.org> In part one of this message, I gave an overview of what I saw as the current landscape. In an attempt to offer one possible way to address issues identified there, I'd like to suggest a model for TLUG that accommodates both a central core community and a diverse, cross-pollenating array of sub-communities. Specifically, I would like to propose that GTALUG re-organize itself into a core structural group and a series of semi-autonomous special-interest groups -- each with its own meetings, its own mailing lists and its own informal leadership. The first ones that come to mind for which I see immediate need are: - Technical SIG (for all the alpha geeks) - New User SIG (generally, the current make-up of NewTLUG) - Ubuntu SIG (about all things Ubuntu, for both newcomers or old-timers) - Business SIG (those who make a living from selling FOSS-related products or services) - Advocacy SIG (related to the promotion and advancement of Linux to the press and public) Of course, any TLUG participant could be member of more than one SIG, but by breaking it up this way people get to work with the precise communities of interests that appeal to them. This model works very well for the PCCT, and the best thing is that SIGs can be created and taken down simply on the merits of having enough interest. If enough people were interested in a field of interest -- like office applications or virtualization or embedded Linux -- SIGs can be made easily. Just as easily, as interest drops any SIG can be disbanded with no hard feelings. In the successful models I've seen, the SIGs meet on their own, but at least quarterly there's a major meeting that brings everyone together in which each SIG tells the greater group what they're doing (often featuring a highlight speaker with a talk of general interest). Interested people go to the GTALUG website, where they find the SIG(s) of interest. A general low-volume mailing list is used by people looking for like-minds to start new SIGs. The nature of which SIGs exist is driven completely by the will and interests of the participants, not from top-down direction. Implementing this requires changes at the GTALUG board -- at least a resolution establishing a SIG mechanism and a method to create easily created portals and mailing lists (already fairly easy to do, I suspect). Eventually this could lead to bylaw changes -- if the model establishes itself as successful -- that embed SIGs as a fundamental component, and outline how SIGs are represented at the GTALUG board. At the same time, this action would mean Ubuntu Toronto morphing into the GTALUG Ubuntu SIG, NewTLUG becoming the New User SIG, etc. I don't know what the objections would be to this but I think they can be addressed and negotiated to everyone's satisfaction. At very least, this action allows for the SIGs to be attached to an existing non-profit incorporated entity which provides infrastructure, a modicum of legal protection, a way to collect resources, and a sense of stability and continuity. My intent here is not to block or insult, but to suggest a framework that recognizes the benefits of being part of a large community, while nurturing and growing diverse specialized interests within. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 11 17:27:41 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 18:27:41 +0100 Subject: xen virtualization and linux distros In-Reply-To: <200702101531.07095.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45CD88FC.6030303@visible-assets.com> <200702101531.07095.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <45CF520D.5080904@visible-assets.com> Thanks to everyone for your suggestions on Xen :) ~/Chris CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On Saturday 10 February 2007 03:57, Christopher Friedt wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> My company would like to set up some virtualization on one of our >> multi-processor / multi-core server machines, using Xen. >> >> I've heard excellent things about Xen. The question is, which >> 'distro' should one use with it. >> >> I've been a gentooer for quite a while now, and believe that it's >> pretty great, even for server administration. The Xen / Gentoo >> documentation is pretty good, and they've apparently even done it >> somehow so that when you make a new image, it doesn't have to be a >> whole distro - only some basic necessities. >> >> >> This is sort of a survey, but does anyone have experience using Xen >> for virtualization? >> >> If so, which flavour of linux was used? > > I integrated Xen 2x with Mandriva in June, 2005 and have been happily > using it ever since. Getting Xen to run on any distro isn't that > hard. The real work was in integrating it with the networking and > firewalling scripts, Shorewall in Mandriva's case, Mandriva's msec > system, dealing with issues related to not having access to the bare > metal from the virtual machines, and so on. At the time, the only > distros that integrated Xen were Suse and Fedora Core and "minimal" > installations of either weighed in at a porky 800 MB. My Mandriva > dom0 is 210 MB and runs fine with only 64 MB of RAM allocated to it. > I could get that even smaller if I did away with urpmi, which I > won't. > > On top of that dom0, I run Mandriva Gentoo, CentOS, and Debian Etch, > Ubuntu. You can run whatever distro you like in a domU (virtual > machine). > >> Are there any dis / advantages that can be highlighted? > > I spent a fair amount of time on the Xen IRC channel and have found > the people there extremely knowledgeable and helpful. I have no > complaints with Xen. > > OpenVZ is another option I had looked at last year. It seemed like I > could put more virtual machines on a given box (without overloading > it) due to the way that OpenVZ allocates resources compared to Xen > but I have never put anything into production. Xen has better > isolation between virtual machines but in most hosting scenarios, > that difference is negligible. > > When I tried OpenVZ, it was with a Fedora Core 5 kernel. I submitted a > bug report when I got stack dumps on boot even before modules were > loaded. This led to an interesting conversation on IRC with one of > the lead developers who said that in production, they prefer > RHEL/CentOS because its product lifetime is 5-7 years. He said that > Red Hat backports security fixes to their stable kernel so it is > mature and contains only required fixes. He said that distros like > Fedora and OpenSuse often include kernels that are not ready for > production so new bugs are introduced constantly. He had no opinion > on Debian because he didn't use it. Take that conversation with a > grain of salt because it was on May 30, 2006 so things could have > changed since then, though I don't think the Fedora or OpenSuse > situation is any different today or ever will be given that both are > bleeding edge distros. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 11 20:25:49 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 15:25:49 -0500 Subject: time sinchronization In-Reply-To: References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <200702101408.52494.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200702111525.50068.softquake@gmail.com> Christopher, Thanks a lot for your nice and detailed response. To others: kind thanks too. It turned out that in my case it was just a matter of creating /etc/ntp.conf and adding an entry there. Hence, it looks like that ntpd is by default installed in ubuntu, simply not configured only. Regards, zb. On Saturday 10 February 2007 17:00, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 2/10/07, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > It did work on my computers in the past. > > > > Now, I maintain ubuntu server. That, it seemed, trivial thing, does not > > look trivial anymore. > > I might wildly guess that this may be a case where Debian has > introduced several packages and put some common config into one or two > of them such that "fighting with the distribution" is getting you into > frustration. > > > Would someone be kind enough to write a short, basic recipe for that? > > 1. Install ntp > > apt-get install ntp > > 2. Make sure it has some servers listed in /etc/ntp.conf > > There is a global pool of over 100 NTP servers that provide > round-robin services via DNS; if you specify "pool.ntp.org", you'll > use that pool, and not flood anybody. > > > What, if any, software should I install? > > ntp > > >Which ports should be opened? > > Port 123 needs to be open to UDP traffic. > > > How to synchronize from command line? > > For that, you need to install the separate package, ntpdate. > > If ntpd is NOT running, you can, as root, run: > > ntpdate pool.ntp.org pool.ntp.org myhost.org yourhost.org ... > > > Is time.nsrc.ca appropriate for using? > > Probably not, unless you're setting time for a large set of servers. > > You should probably use pool.ntp.org instead. > > Another entertaining option is to consider backtracing the servers > nearby you in your network. > > For instance, if I trace a route out to somewhere (say slashdot), I > find a whole bunch of routers in the way. Many of them are Cisco > routers that are running NTP. > > knuth:~# traceroute slashdot.org > traceroute to slashdot.org (66.35.250.150), 30 hops max, 52 byte packets > 1 godel (192.168.1.1) 0.369 ms 0.300 ms 0.298 ms > 2 64.230.197.235 (64.230.197.235) 52.002 ms 52.169 ms 50.934 ms > 3 dis26-toronto63_Vlan112.net.bell.ca (64.230.222.81) 49.018 ms > 47.679 ms 50.631 ms > 4 core4-toronto63_GE5-2.net.bell.ca (64.230.207.105) 51.990 ms > 49.893 ms 50.249 ms > 5 core1-chicago23_pos12-0-0.net.bell.ca (64.230.147.14) 60.330 ms > 61.197 ms 57.883 ms > 6 bx4-chicago23_POS3-0.net.bell.ca (64.230.203.50) 63.479 ms > 60.386 ms 59.579 ms > 7 dcr1-so-3-1-0.chicago.savvis.net (208.175.10.85) 60.268 ms > 59.505 ms 93.675 ms > 8 dcr2-so-2-0-0.Denver.savvis.net (204.70.192.133) 83.555 ms > 85.276 ms 84.046 ms > 9 dcr1-so-2-0-0.SanFranciscosfo.savvis.net (204.70.192.114) 126.579 > ms 128.396 ms 161.049 ms > 10 dcr2-so-5-0-0.SanFranciscosfo.savvis.net (204.70.192.150) 126.611 > ms 126.159 ms 124.423 ms > 11 bhr1-pos-0-0.SantaClarasc8.savvis.net (208.172.156.198) 128.546 > ms 125.492 ms 127.232 ms > 12 csr1-ve243.santaclarasc8.savvis.net (66.35.194.50) 129.895 ms > 128.189 ms 132.192 ms > 13 66.35.212.174 (66.35.212.174) 132.563 ms 174.111 ms 128.656 ms > 14 slashdot.org (66.35.250.150) 135.238 ms !C 128.849 ms !C 129.558 ms > !C > > Turning this into an ntpdate request: > knuth:~# ntpdate `traceroute slashdot.org 2> /dev/null | awk '{print > $2}' | tr '()' ' ' ` > 10 Feb 16:50:43 ntpdate[19518]: adjust time server 208.172.156.198 > offset 0.000835 sec > > I'm not sure that's 100% 'kosher,' but if argued with, I could argue > that these servers all volunteered to carry my traffic. The argument > would be stronger if I restricted the list to the Bell servers nearby, > as I'm paying them for Internet services... > > At any rate, I'd suggest trying to have some diverse set of servers > that *aren't* all the same tick/tock @ U(T). > > FYI, it seems like a waste of time to me to try to find a server > geographically nearby. When I run traceroute, I find that I need to > go thru Chicago to get back to anything at U(T). That's going to be > common for anyone using Bell Sympatico. I wouldn't be surprised if > Rogers users would discover similar to be true. > > It appears that Sympatico hasn't any connections to the Toronto > Internet Exchange (torix.net), which seems silly to me; there ought to > be value to having direct quick access to geographically nearby > servers around Toronto. Of course, they've never been accused of > being particularly bright... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 11 20:45:53 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 15:45:53 -0500 Subject: event at linuxcaffe; OpenStreetMap weekend Message-ID: the first of its kind in North America. some details at http://www.linuxcaffe.ca/node/21954 and more at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Toronto_Mapping_Weekend if you're GPS inclined, come on down and join the fun mapping the town. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 01:11:32 2007 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 20:11:32 -0500 Subject: elephants dream Message-ID: <61e9e2b10702111711r444f8828k422627bdc1919de4@mail.gmail.com> Just watched *Elephants Dream* ... a cool animated short film made using open source software (check out the credits for mention of Blender, Gimp, Python, KDE, Ubuntu, etc.) and licensed under Creative Commons... it can be downloaded here: http://orange.blender.org/download Also, there is a "Making Of..." documentary describing the behind-the-scenes work that is very interesting: http://ed.plonkmedia.org/making_of_elephants_dream.mp4 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 01:25:35 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 20:25:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: elephants dream In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10702111711r444f8828k422627bdc1919de4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10702111711r444f8828k422627bdc1919de4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070212012535.C992EE24C@shell.vex.net> [ Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, converting... ] > Just watched *Elephants Dream* ... a cool animated short film made > using open source software (check out the credits for mention of > Blender, Gimp, Python, KDE, Ubuntu, etc.) and licensed under Creative > Commons... it can be downloaded here: I think it has been out for over a year now. When I downloaded it before the summer, it had already been around for a while. I made a DVD of both that movie and the making of it for myself. I must agree, however, that movies like this are important achievements, and deserves more discussion than it has been given. > > http://orange.blender.org/download > > Also, there is a "Making Of..." documentary describing the > behind-the-scenes work that is very interesting: > > http://ed.plonkmedia.org/making_of_elephants_dream.mp4 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 02:16:31 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 21:16:31 -0500 Subject: Is your zoneinfo updated for "new and improved" DST? Message-ID: <20070212021631.GA8005@waltdnes.org> It'll be here in a month. Here's how to check, assuming that you're on "Canada/Eastern" time. Note the changeovers on Mar 11 and Nov 4. [m3000][~] /usr/sbin/zdump -v /usr/share/zoneinfo/Canada/Eastern | grep 2007 /usr/share/zoneinfo/Canada/Eastern Sun Mar 11 06:59:59 2007 UTC = Sun Mar 11 01:59:59 2007 EST isdst=0 /usr/share/zoneinfo/Canada/Eastern Sun Mar 11 07:00:00 2007 UTC = Sun Mar 11 03:00:00 2007 EDT isdst=1 /usr/share/zoneinfo/Canada/Eastern Sun Nov 4 05:59:59 2007 UTC = Sun Nov 4 01:59:59 2007 EDT isdst=1 /usr/share/zoneinfo/Canada/Eastern Sun Nov 4 06:00:00 2007 UTC = Sun Nov 4 01:00:00 2007 EST isdst=0 -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 03:43:16 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 22:43:16 -0500 Subject: Another "copyright" money grab Message-ID: <20070212034316.GA9482@waltdnes.org> Full details at... http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=cccd9ce1-5279-4145-9874-a179b5be067f&k=26495 (Note; you may have to escape the ampersand in the URL). Executive summary... After one money grab was thrown out by the Federal Court of Appeals, the Private Copyright Coalition has made another request to the Copyright Board for a blanket levy on media cards and Ipods and MP3 players in general. This affects everybody. Media cards are mostly used in digital cameras. Their cost will go up. The Ipod is actually a small computer that can run linux ( http://ipodlinux.org ). This is a foot in the back door for going after your 320 gig hard drive. The levy on that will be awesome. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 02:55:38 2007 From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 21:55:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Is your zoneinfo updated for "new and improved" DST? Message-ID: <200702120255.l1C2tc2c076585@localhost.generalconcepts.com> | [m3000][~] /usr/sbin/zdump -v /usr/share/zoneinfo/Canada/Eastern | grep 2007 Don't forget to also check /etc/localtime - it could be a copy of an old version of the file. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 12:35:10 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 07:35:10 -0500 Subject: Is your zoneinfo updated for "new and improved" DST? In-Reply-To: <20070212021631.GA8005-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070212021631.GA8005@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990702120435s63bb7e81t8983468841ed94a4@mail.gmail.com> On 2/11/07, Walter Dnes wrote: > It'll be here in a month. Here's how to check, assuming that you're > on "Canada/Eastern" time. Note the changeovers on Mar 11 and Nov 4. And for people like me who had to take a moment to figure out what dst means.. http://www.timetemperature.com/tzca/daylight_saving_time_canada.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 13:33:06 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 08:33:06 -0500 Subject: Net neutrality and Canada Message-ID: <45D06C92.2050900@pppoe.ca> From the Toronto Star by Michael Geist, http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/180608 Excerpts: Bernier's willingness to parrot the corporate line became glaringly apparent last week when internal government documents obtained under the Access to Information Act indicated that he is skeptical about the need for legislative safeguards to ensure that all Canadians enjoy equal and unfettered access to Internet content and applications by avoiding a two-tier Internet. Those safeguards, widely referred to as net neutrality legislation, were featured in a government-commissioned report on telecom reform released last year. It recommended that Canada introduce legal protections to "confirm the right of Canadian consumers to access publicly available Internet applications and content of their choice by means of all public telecommunications networks providing access to the Internet." The need to prevent a two-tier Internet in Canada has never been greater. The Canadian competitive landscape is dominated by a handful of companies, with the top five providers controlling 84 per cent of Canadian Internet connections. Indeed, Canadian consumers who have access to broadband networks (many communities are still without access) invariably face steady price increases and service limitations from the indistinguishable choice between cable and DSL. Leveraging their dominant positions, Canadian telecommunications companies have been embroiled in a growing number of incidents involving content or application discrimination. Over the past two years, Telus blocked access to hundreds of websites during a dispute with its labour union, Shaw attempted to levy surcharges for Internet telephony services, Rogers quietly limited bandwidth for legitimate peer-to-peer software applications, and Videotron mused publicly about establishing a new Internet transmission tariff that would require content creators to pay millions for the privilege of transmitting their content. The government documents uncovered last week confirm that Bernier is aware of the situation. One prepared for the House of Commons Question Period notes that "Canadian telecommunications companies, like Bell and Telus, are increasingly determined to play a greater role in how Internet content is delivered. As the carriers of the content, they believe they should be gatekeepers of the content, with the freedom to impose fees for their role." Despite publicly maintaining that he is undecided on the issue, another document leaves little doubt that net neutrality legislation is not in the cards for Canada. A Question and Answer memorandum dated Nov. 16, 2006, asks about Bernier's position on net neutrality. Echoing the position of the major telecommunications companies, the response concludes, "market forces have served Canadians well when it comes to the Internet. Public policy must consider a number of aspects of this broad issue, including consumer protection and choice [and] enabling market forces to continue to shape the evolution of the Internet infrastructure, investment and innovation to the greatest extent feasible." Bernier's unquestioned faith in the market on the net neutrality issue places him and his government at odds not only with concerns of millions of Canadian Internet users but also with the emerging approach in the United States. After reports of the internal government position on net neutrality leaked out, Bloc MP Paul Cr?te raised the issue last Wednesday in the House of Commons, asking Bernier to commit to the principle of net neutrality. Bernier declined to do so, instead citing a recent Ipsos-Reid public opinion poll that he said demonstrated that 75 per cent of Quebec residents support his plans for telecom reform. In addition to mistaking polls for policies, Bernier did not mention that only 14 per cent of respondents were even aware of the government's telecom policy changes and that the survey made no mention of Internet access issues. More tellingly, he also neglected to reveal that it was Bell Canada that commissioned the survey. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Well worth reading in full, my 2 cents :-) Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 14:05:10 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 09:05:10 -0500 Subject: Virtualization on Debian In-Reply-To: <45CDC9E4.9060600-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <45CDC9E4.9060600@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420702120605t448e0796xe45c75f83cca7011@mail.gmail.com> Hi Meng, I don't have much personal experience with virtualization, and the experience I have is with VMWare ESX Server hosting a bunch of Windows guests, so I don't know how interested you'll be, but I thought I'd chime in anyway. My mother is the IT manager for a company of somewhere between 50 and 100 computer users. I'm pretty sure that her and her only direct report (Ben) are the entire IT staff for this company. They recently consolidated several servers onto a VMWare setup. I don't know the hardware specs for sure (although I could get them if anyone cares), but I think it's something like dual Xeon dual cores, with multi-GB RAM. There are two such machines sharing a SAN with, perhaps, 1TB of disk. This configuration has made maintenance a lot easier for Ben because he can now make some changes to the system during business hours that used to required after-hours work. I think this is because the virtual machines can be live migrated between the physical machines. I'm not exactly sure what this feature buys him, though, that allows him to do maintenance during the day. Another benefit of the virtualization is disaster recovery. I built a web application for them and it is being hosted on a Gentoo guest. This being my first-ever contract, I made a few mistakes. The worst mistake was to leave an insecure user/password combo on the machine after opening the SSH server to the world. Somebody from the Netherlands (or, maybe a zombie machine in the Netherlands) broke into the machine and started scanning the rest of the 'net for more open machines. Thankfully, I had a log of when it happened, and Ben had a backup of the VM from the night before. Monday morning, we created a new VM from the backup, compared the contents of the web-app's database between the two images, deleted the weak account, secured the SSH server to only accept key-based logins, and then transferred everything over to the new machine. Total recovery time was about 60 minutes and I was working from home. Perhaps similar or faster recovery times can be achieved with traditional backups and traditional servers--I don't know, because I've never done one--but this seemed quick to me. Finally, I think the electricity bill has dropped at my mother's office because they threw out a bunch of machines. The computer room is also cooler, so the air conditioner is running either less often or less powerfully. So, even though the project cost a few tens of thousands of dollars (I think), the overall effect is a net savings in the long run. (The project was more expensive than I would have expected, but it included an outside team doing a whole lot of pre-transition measuring to figure out how much horsepower the new host machines would need. I think the bill also includes some amount of post-transition support, the hardware, VMWare licenses, and probably a few other things I'm forgetting.) Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 14:17:21 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 09:17:21 -0500 Subject: running windows via kvm module -- any experiences? In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420702011014u29c5bc54nd86567b13915ac73@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420702120617lfe7c020jc91d343b19c85518@mail.gmail.com> > My experience is that Bibtex is very good and easy to use on linux or > windows. But for someone who has all their references in endnote already > is their an easy way to convert them to bibtex? I ran into this page: http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/2006/EECS-2006-183.html via Tim Bray's blog (http://tbray.org/ongoing/) and although that page might be separately relevant to some on this list, the citations at the end of it made me think of this thread. I don't know if there's an existing tool to convert EndNote to BibTeX, but it looks like it might be easy to whip something together in Perl (Python, Ruby, awk, sed, whatever). Here's the relevant text from the above link: BibTeX citation: @techreport{Asanovic:EECS-2006-183, Author = {Krste Asanovic, Ras Bodik, Bryan Christopher Catanzaro, Joseph James Gebis, Parry Husbands, Kurt Keutzer, David A. Patterson, William Lester Plishker, John Shalf, Samuel Webb Williams and Katherine A. Yelick}, Title = {The Landscape of Parallel Computing Research: A View from Berkeley}, Institution = {EECS Department, University of California, Berkeley}, Year = {2006}, Month = {December 18}, URL = {http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/2006/EECS-2006-183.html}, Number = {UCB/EECS-2006-183} } EndNote citation: %0 Report %A Asanovic, Krste %A Bodik, Ras %A Catanzaro, Bryan Christopher %A Gebis, Joseph James %A Husbands, Parry %A Keutzer, Kurt %A Patterson, David A. %A Plishker, William Lester %A Shalf, John %A Williams, Samuel Webb %A Yelick, Katherine A. %T The Landscape of Parallel Computing Research: A View from Berkeley %I EECS Department, University of California, Berkeley %D 2006 %8 December 18 %@ UCB/EECS-2006-183 %U http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/2006/EECS-2006-183.html %F Asanovic:EECS-2006-183 Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 15:08:21 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 10:08:21 -0500 Subject: Virtualization on Debian In-Reply-To: <7ac602420702120605t448e0796xe45c75f83cca7011-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <45CDC9E4.9060600@pppoe.ca> <7ac602420702120605t448e0796xe45c75f83cca7011@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45D082E5.2050803@pppoe.ca> Ian Petersen wrote: > Hi Meng, > > I don't have much personal experience with virtualization, and the > experience I have is with VMWare ESX Server hosting a bunch of Windows > guests, so I don't know how interested you'll be, but I thought I'd > chime in anyway. > > > > Ian > Ian Many thanks for the detailed response. I was following the other virtualization thread with interest. I read of some companies implementing virtualization for production and wondered if anyone on the list has experience with it at work, especially with regard to Debian. I have some reading and investigation to do with Xen, KVM and OpenVZ. I will also look into the hardware requirements. Thanks again. Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 15:18:10 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 10:18:10 -0500 Subject: Virtualization on Debian In-Reply-To: <45D082E5.2050803-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <45CDC9E4.9060600@pppoe.ca> <7ac602420702120605t448e0796xe45c75f83cca7011@mail.gmail.com> <45D082E5.2050803@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <44AE3D2D-BE18-4021-9F4E-4F24996882E3@visibleassets.com> Meng, What I did learn here is that you need relatively recent processors with hardware virtualization built in KVM won't work on processors without it whereas Xen will I'll be taking my server live this week and for a very short period of time could allow you access to one of the guests. Dave On 12-Feb-07, at 10:08 AM, Meng Cheah wrote: > Ian Petersen wrote: > >> Hi Meng, >> >> I don't have much personal experience with virtualization, and the >> experience I have is with VMWare ESX Server hosting a bunch of >> Windows >> guests, so I don't know how interested you'll be, but I thought I'd >> chime in anyway. >> >> >> >> Ian >> > Ian > > Many thanks for the detailed response. > I was following the other virtualization thread with interest. > > I read of some companies implementing virtualization for production > and wondered if anyone on the list has experience with it at work, > especially with regard to Debian. > I have some reading and investigation to do with Xen, KVM and OpenVZ. > I will also look into the hardware requirements. > > Thanks again. > > Meng Cheah > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 15:25:47 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 10:25:47 -0500 Subject: Small format factor 486-PI/PII needed for ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <45CE0CB3.9030101-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <45CDA25B.6070809@knet.ca> <45CE0CB3.9030101@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20070212152547.GW7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Feb 10, 2007 at 01:19:31PM -0500, John Moniz wrote: > Teddy David Mills wrote: > > > > >I am looking for a small form factor 486/Pentium I/II. > >If you have one that is collecting dust, let me know offlist. > > Teddy, I may have something, although getting it to you may be a chore > (or maybe not). Let me know if you still need it and I'll check my > surplus stuff. A 486 at least should be no problem to find. I am trying to remember the smallest 486 I ever saw (not counting laptops)... :) Small form factor does not come to mind. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 16:21:28 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 11:21:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Small format factor 486-PI/PII needed for ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <20070212152547.GW7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070212152547.GW7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070212162129.72906.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Feb 10, 2007 at 01:19:31PM -0500, John Moniz > wrote: > > Teddy David Mills wrote: > > > > > > > >I am looking for a small form factor 486/Pentium > I/II. > > >If you have one that is collecting dust, let me > know offlist. > > > > Teddy, I may have something, although getting it > to you may be a chore > > (or maybe not). Let me know if you still need it > and I'll check my > > surplus stuff. A 486 at least should be no problem > to find. > > I am trying to remember the smallest 486 I ever saw > (not counting > laptops)... :) Small form factor does not come to > mind. I have seen some very small '486 PCs aimed at the POS (point of sale) market (i.e. smart cash registers). But there is another issue with '486 boxes namely ALMOST none of the '486 boxes had PCI slots (yes, I did see a few of the last '486 boxes (i.e. 100/120 MHz boxes) with PCI, but they were RARE). The lack of PCI means you are basically limited to ISA bus and ALMOST none of the ISA bus cards support 100 mbps ethernet (yes, 3com did make one 100 mbps ISA card, but now we are talking extremely exotic). Further in many cases you are talking trouble with installing 2 ISA ethernet cards in the same box... Bottom line, going to a '486 is more of a nightmare than I would take on by choice. These days Pentium II PCs are in the "garbage PC" class, (i.e.: hunt around a bit and you can find them being put out with the trash), and with the PCI bus are a LOT less pain to deal with, and would be my pick for a custom firewall... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 16:24:13 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 11:24:13 -0500 Subject: Is your zoneinfo updated for "new and improved" DST? In-Reply-To: <20070212021631.GA8005-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070212021631.GA8005@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <45D094AD.201@telly.org> Walter Dnes wrote: > It'll be here in a month. Here's how to check, assuming that you're > on "Canada/Eastern" time. Note the changeovers on Mar 11 and Nov 4. > > [m3000][~] /usr/sbin/zdump -v /usr/share/zoneinfo/Canada/Eastern | grep 2007 > /usr/share/zoneinfo/Canada/Eastern Sun Mar 11 06:59:59 2007 UTC = Sun Mar 11 01:59:59 2007 EST isdst=0 > /usr/share/zoneinfo/Canada/Eastern Sun Mar 11 07:00:00 2007 UTC = Sun Mar 11 03:00:00 2007 EDT isdst=1 > /usr/share/zoneinfo/Canada/Eastern Sun Nov 4 05:59:59 2007 UTC = Sun Nov 4 01:59:59 2007 EDT isdst=1 > /usr/share/zoneinfo/Canada/Eastern Sun Nov 4 06:00:00 2007 UTC = Sun Nov 4 01:00:00 2007 EST isdst=0 > > I just noticed that my Kubuntu system also has /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Toronto -- same contents, different files. I have no idea if this is standard, or why it's not using links rather than separate files. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 16:48:55 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 11:48:55 -0500 Subject: Small format factor 486-PI/PII needed for ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <20070212162129.72906.qmail-XddnEKhDJlqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070212152547.GW7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070212162129.72906.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070212164855.GX7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 12, 2007 at 11:21:28AM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > I have seen some very small '486 PCs aimed at the POS > (point of sale) market (i.e. smart cash registers). > But there is another issue with '486 boxes namely > ALMOST none of the '486 boxes had PCI slots (yes, I > did see a few of the last '486 boxes (i.e. 100/120 MHz > boxes) with PCI, but they were RARE). The lack of PCI > means you are basically limited to ISA bus and ALMOST > none of the ISA bus cards support 100 mbps ethernet > (yes, 3com did make one 100 mbps ISA card, but now we > are talking extremely exotic). Further in many cases > you are talking trouble with installing 2 ISA ethernet > cards in the same box... Most 486's with PCI were probably PCI 1.0, which probably doesn't work with most modern cards (not sure it had 3.3V at all, and I am not sure the auto configuration works quite the same). > Bottom line, going to a '486 is more of a nightmare > than I would take on by choice. These days Pentium II > PCs are in the "garbage PC" class, (i.e.: hunt around > a bit and you can find them being put out with the > trash), and with the PCI bus are a LOT less pain to > deal with, and would be my pick for a custom > firewall... Certainly a small P2/P3 system can be had used for $100 or so. And it would have PCI 2.0 or 2.1, and usually 128MB ram (which would likely be more than the max ram possible on the 486 system). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 17:05:16 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 12:05:16 -0500 Subject: Is your zoneinfo updated for "new and improved" DST? In-Reply-To: <20070212021631.GA8005-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070212021631.GA8005@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <45D09E4C.4090903@ve3syb.ca> Walter Dnes wrote: > It'll be here in a month. Here's how to check, assuming that you're > on "Canada/Eastern" time. Note the changeovers on Mar 11 and Nov 4. > > [m3000][~] /usr/sbin/zdump -v /usr/share/zoneinfo/Canada/Eastern | grep 2007 I had read something in the newspaper that a change to when the clocks change was being considered. I didn't realize a change to the times had been adopted. My Linux box is up to date based on the output from the command you listed. I've updated the changeover points in my PDA. The only thing left to do is to figure out how to update the information in the old version of Windows on my machine (which is no longer supported by MS). I won't be surprised to find that some of the VCRs in the house will change at the wrong time of year. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 17:18:16 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 12:18:16 -0500 Subject: elephants dream In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10702111711r444f8828k422627bdc1919de4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10702111711r444f8828k422627bdc1919de4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45D0A158.1070200@ve3syb.ca> Daniel Armstrong wrote: > Just watched *Elephants Dream* ... a cool animated short film made > using open source software (check out the credits for mention of > Blender, Gimp, Python, KDE, Ubuntu, etc.) and licensed under Creative > Commons... it can be downloaded here: > > http://orange.blender.org/download That movie has been out for quite some time. I didn't really like the story of the movie or the look of the characters. I found it all rather odd. The talk about using Blender to make a movie gave me the impression it was going to have a running time longer than 10 or so minutes. That running time makes it a short rather than a movie. It was still rather impressive when you realize it was all done using Blender. The Blender community also benefits from additional developments and enhancements made to the program that were deemed necessary to assist in (or simplify) the production of the "movie". -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 18:21:20 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 13:21:20 -0500 Subject: Small format factor 486-PI/PII needed for ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <20070212162129.72906.qmail-XddnEKhDJlqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070212162129.72906.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1171304480.3332.501.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Mon, 2007-02-12 at 11:21 -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > Bottom line, going to a '486 is more of a nightmare > than I would take on by choice. These days Pentium II > PCs are in the "garbage PC" class, (i.e.: hunt around > a bit and you can find them being put out with the > trash), and with the PCI bus are a LOT less pain to > deal with, and would be my pick for a custom > firewall... I'm jumping in a little late here, but was your required for a 486 based on cost, power or is it technical? The Mini-ITX form factor can be put in a case with HD, RAM and processor for about $300. It's fanless with CPU speeds at 500MHz. It's an integrated M/B with one PCI slot. The M/B is about $150 and comes with CPU. $25 for RAM, $60 HD, and a case. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 19:17:33 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:17:33 -0500 Subject: PCB tools for Linux (was Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now?) In-Reply-To: <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <20070208182203.381eafbd@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45CBB86B.9070802@yahoo.ca> <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <45D0BD4D.3070708@ve3syb.ca> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > The only thing we cannot do under Linux these days are PCB layout and > routing. As a matter of habit, I use Electronic Workbench under Windows > for circuit simulation, but I believe there is a linux-based alternative > now. > Have you looked at the gEDA suite (http://www.geda.seul.org)? As previously mentioned, there is EagleCAD (http://www.cadsoft.de) for schematic capture and PCB layout. The gEDA suite has gschem for schematic capture. Associated with the gEDA suite is PCB (http://pcb.sourceforge.net) for PCB layout. I haven't spent much time with any of the above. They may be nice programs but I didn't find them that intuitive or conducive to just starting them up and being able to use them out of the box. It may be just a case of spending a bit more time using them first. The program I currently use for schematic capture and board layout is WinQCad (http://www.winqcad.com). Yes, it is a Windows program but the web site states right up front that you can run the program using Wine (which I have done). I have found WinQCad to be the easiest program of its type to use. I was able to start making useful schematics with it very quickly. The free version has a 499 pin limit only. It dosen't limit the size of board or number of layers you can have. The pin limit doesn't affect the schematic editor. It only seems to come in to play when you try to generate a netlist. (I'm not sure what impact it has for the board layout.) Its part and PCB outline libraries seem a bit limited but it is easy to edit and/or create the part and outline libraries. It can also import parts from other software packages. It seems to have a fairly decent autorouter. I've mainly used the schematic editing features so I can't say too much about the board layout aspects. So far, I have used it to create (or update from a very old OrCAD files) created 5 schematics ranging in size from a single A sized sheet to one consisting of 8 B sized sheets. BTW, does Octave handle equation solving along the lines of TK! Solver? I'm talking about a program where you can enter a formula, give it some known values for the variables and have it solve for the unknowns without have to re-arrange the formula. ie. Enter the formula for resonant frequency (Fr), provide values for Fr and C and have the program solve for L. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 19:29:57 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:29:57 -0500 Subject: Is your zoneinfo updated for "new and improved" DST? In-Reply-To: <45D09E4C.4090903-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070212021631.GA8005@waltdnes.org> <45D09E4C.4090903@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20070212192957.GY7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 12, 2007 at 12:05:16PM -0500, Kevin Cozens wrote: > I had read something in the newspaper that a change to when the clocks > change was being considered. I didn't realize a change to the times had > been adopted. > > My Linux box is up to date based on the output from the command you listed. > I've updated the changeover points in my PDA. The only thing left to do is > to figure out how to update the information in the old version of Windows > on my machine (which is no longer supported by MS). > > I won't be surprised to find that some of the VCRs in the house will change > at the wrong time of year. I would be surprised if any of them did do it correctly. Y2K was a coding error. This is a political error it seems. All the code that was correct last year is now incorrect. Maybe the Saskatchewan farmers were right. Daylights savings time is a stupid idea. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 19:32:01 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 20:32:01 +0100 Subject: PCB tools for Linux (was Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now?) In-Reply-To: <45D0BD4D.3070708-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <20070208182203.381eafbd@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45CBB86B.9070802@yahoo.ca> <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <45D0BD4D.3070708@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <45D0C0B1.7050108@visible-assets.com> Kevin Cozens wrote: > Have you looked at the gEDA suite (http://www.geda.seul.org)? I've used gEDA (with both spiceng and gnucap backends), but it seems that it's a little unstable - i've had it crash on me unexpectedly numerous times in one sitting, just doing a schematic & simulation for a very simple RC circuit. > BTW, does Octave handle equation solving along the lines of TK! Solver? > I'm talking about a program where you can enter a formula, give it some > known values for the variables and have it solve for the unknowns > without have to re-arrange the formula. > > ie. Enter the formula for resonant frequency (Fr), provide values for Fr > and C and have the program solve for L. > I think what Kevin is talking about above is symbolic math facilities, which i know that matlab & mathematica allow for. Matlab is _ok_ for this, so long as you've forked out all of the cash for the latest version. At my lab we have version 2007b or something like that, and symbolic math works like a charm (integration, simplification) On the other hand, at my old lab, our version of matlab was 7.0.1 and its symbolic editor crashed on every use, claiming something to do with the libc version on the system. I'm fairly interested in using octave a bit more too, does anyone know any other information about it? From what I understand, it has a syntax that is practically identical to matlab - along with many of the same built-in functions. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 20:41:27 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 15:41:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: Is your zoneinfo updated for "new and improved" DST? In-Reply-To: <20070212192957.GY7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070212192957.GY7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070212204127.89175.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Kevin Cozens wrote: > > I won't be surprised to find that some of the VCRs > in the house will change at the wrong time of year. > > I would be surprised if any of them did do it > correctly. Y2K was a > coding error. This is a political error it seems. > All the code that > was correct last year is now incorrect. Maybe the > Saskatchewan farmers > were right. Daylights savings time is a stupid > idea. Some will, sort of. I have a VCR about 6 years old that could handle the time change ok, reason being that it can use a time signal transmitted by the local PBS station. The bad news being in my experience (and I have not double checked this in a while) the PBS station clock tended to be off by more than I was happy with (ok, so I am a bit fanatical about the VCR clock being right to within 1-2 seconds)... So, that VCR is set to manual clock and I update it by hand as required... Now, the vast majority (and any older) VCRs that depends on an internal program to compensate for DST is going to be in trouble. Only old VCRs that use some sort of external time source will be ... sort of okay. Colin McGregor. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 12 20:52:15 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 20:52:15 +0000 Subject: PCB tools for Linux (was Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now?) In-Reply-To: <45D0C0B1.7050108-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <20070208182203.381eafbd@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45CBB86B.9070802@yahoo.ca> <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <45D0BD4D.3070708@ve3syb.ca> <45D0C0B1.7050108@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: On 2/12/07, Christopher Friedt wrote: > > BTW, does Octave handle equation solving along the lines of TK! Solver? > > I'm talking about a program where you can enter a formula, give it some > > known values for the variables and have it solve for the unknowns > > without have to re-arrange the formula. > > > > ie. Enter the formula for resonant frequency (Fr), provide values for Fr > > and C and have the program solve for L. > > > > I think what Kevin is talking about above is symbolic math facilities, > which i know that matlab & mathematica allow for. Matlab is _ok_ for > this, so long as you've forked out all of the cash for the latest > version. At my lab we have version 2007b or something like that, and > symbolic math works like a charm (integration, simplification) > > On the other hand, at my old lab, our version of matlab was 7.0.1 andS > its symbolic editor crashed on every use, claiming something to do with > the libc version on the system. > > I'm fairly interested in using octave a bit more too, does anyone know > any other information about it? From what I understand, it has a syntax > that is practically identical to matlab - along with many of the same > built-in functions. Octave declares itself to be intended to provide a "language that is mostly compatible with Matlab." Thus, it's good at manipulating matrix objects. If what is desired is a system for solving symbolic algebraic expressions, then Matlab isn't what is wanted. Matlab can solve linear algebra problems, but that amounts to solving things that look like: Ax = b where A is a matrix, and b and x are vectors. If you want a free computer algebra system, well, there are a number of those. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_computer_algebra_systems Most of them are available on Linux, some under OSS sorts of licenses. The more "general purpose" options that are readily available include: - Maxima (a version of Maxsyma) - Axiom (formerly called Sketchpad) These are a simple "apt-get install maxima axiom" away on a Debian system... The other historical big names are Maple (produced by Waterloo's SCG) and Mathematica (Wolfram). They're thousands of dollars per seat... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 13 02:19:52 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 21:19:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: March meeting Message-ID: Hi all. I seem to recall a suggestion was made on list to make one of the monthly meetings a "brain storm" session for Software Freedom Day 2007. Is there interest in doing this at the March meeting? We could even expand this and have it as a "town hall" style meeting in which people openly discuss a variety of topics related to GTALUG and Linux. Just a thought really. Rob the talks maintainer -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 13 02:26:13 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 21:26:13 -0500 Subject: March meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 12/02/07, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi all. I seem to recall a suggestion was made on list to make one of the > monthly meetings a "brain storm" session for Software Freedom Day 2007. > > Is there interest in doing this at the March meeting? personally I think that's too early. If SFD is in September, we should start building momentum in June. Otherwise we'll make plans, shelve them and bring them out in the fall ? djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From demsullivan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 13 02:29:06 2007 From: demsullivan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Sullivan) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 21:29:06 -0500 Subject: March meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200702122129.06772.demsullivan@gmail.com> On Monday 12 February 2007 9:19 pm, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi all. I seem to recall a suggestion was made on list to make one of the > monthly meetings a "brain storm" session for Software Freedom Day 2007. > > Is there interest in doing this at the March meeting? > > We could even expand this and have it as a "town hall" style meeting in > which people openly discuss a variety of topics related to GTALUG and > Linux. > > Just a thought really. > > Rob the talks maintainer Sounds good! TLUG folks are also welcome to come out to Ubuntu Toronto meetings for the same purpose: to collaborate and discuss Software Freedom Day 2007. -- Dave Sullivan dave-VvnUh7fPG/k7v45Mz1C67QC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org 647-235-0328 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 13 02:47:11 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 21:47:11 -0500 Subject: Virtualization on Debian In-Reply-To: <44AE3D2D-BE18-4021-9F4E-4F24996882E3-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <45CDC9E4.9060600@pppoe.ca> <7ac602420702120605t448e0796xe45c75f83cca7011@mail.gmail.com> <45D082E5.2050803@pppoe.ca> <44AE3D2D-BE18-4021-9F4E-4F24996882E3@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <45D126AF.7050904@pppoe.ca> Dave Cramer wrote: > Meng, > > What I did learn here is that you need relatively recent processors > with hardware virtualization built in > > KVM won't work on processors without it whereas Xen will > > I'll be taking my server live this week and for a very short period > of time could allow you access to one of the guests. > > Dave Dave Thanks for the information regarding the hardware requirements. I appreciate your offer of access but I have to decline as honestly, I'm starting from square one with regard to virtualization and this is a hectic week for me (Chinese New Year is on Sunday and I hope to be out of town next week). I'm touched by your offer, open source "hospitality"? :-) I believe it embodies the best of the spirit of open source. All the best. Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 13 03:17:42 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:17:42 -0500 Subject: Virtualization on Debian In-Reply-To: <45D126AF.7050904-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <45CDC9E4.9060600@pppoe.ca> <7ac602420702120605t448e0796xe45c75f83cca7011@mail.gmail.com> <45D082E5.2050803@pppoe.ca> <44AE3D2D-BE18-4021-9F4E-4F24996882E3@visibleassets.com> <45D126AF.7050904@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: On 12-Feb-07, at 9:47 PM, Meng Cheah wrote: > Dave Cramer wrote: > >> Meng, >> >> What I did learn here is that you need relatively recent >> processors with hardware virtualization built in >> >> KVM won't work on processors without it whereas Xen will >> >> I'll be taking my server live this week and for a very short >> period of time could allow you access to one of the guests. >> >> Dave > > Dave > > Thanks for the information regarding the hardware requirements. > > I appreciate your offer of access but I have to decline as > honestly, I'm starting from square one with regard to > virtualization and this is a hectic week for me (Chinese New Year > is on Sunday and I hope to be out of town next week). > > I'm touched by your offer, open source "hospitality"? :-) > I believe it embodies the best of the spirit of open source. Well I believe that I usually get back more than I give, but yeah, it's more or less open source hospitality. Also virtualization allows me the unique opportunity to do this, as I can just tear the machine down afterwards and rebuild it. Regards, Dave > > All the best. > > Meng Cheah > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From demsullivan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 13 03:17:59 2007 From: demsullivan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Sullivan) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:17:59 -0500 Subject: March meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200702122218.00000.demsullivan@gmail.com> On Monday 12 February 2007 9:26 pm, David J Patrick wrote: > On 12/02/07, Robert Brockway wrote: > > Hi all. I seem to recall a suggestion was made on list to make one of > > the monthly meetings a "brain storm" session for Software Freedom Day > > 2007. > > > > Is there interest in doing this at the March meeting? > > personally I think that's too early. If SFD is in September, we should > start building momentum in June. Otherwise we'll make plans, shelve > them and bring them out in the fall ? > djp I disagree.. the more planning time the better IMO.. at the very least we could have some preliminary talks. -- Dave Sullivan dave-VvnUh7fPG/k7v45Mz1C67QC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org 647-235-0328 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 13 03:44:39 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:44:39 -0500 Subject: Virtualization on Debian In-Reply-To: References: <45CDC9E4.9060600@pppoe.ca> <7ac602420702120605t448e0796xe45c75f83cca7011@mail.gmail.com> <45D082E5.2050803@pppoe.ca> <44AE3D2D-BE18-4021-9F4E-4F24996882E3@visibleassets.com> <45D126AF.7050904@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <45D13427.8050602@pppoe.ca> Dave Cramer wrote: > Well I believe that I usually get back more than I give, but yeah, > it's more or less open source hospitality. Also virtualization allows > me the unique opportunity to do this, as I can just tear the machine > down afterwards and rebuild it. > > Regards, > > Dave Hi Ian and Dave Many thanks again for the generosity and help. I have my work cut out for me :-) . Regards Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jane-UlHtTOpGojasTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 13 04:04:38 2007 From: jane-UlHtTOpGojasTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Jane Zhang) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 23:04:38 -0500 Subject: March meeting In-Reply-To: <200702122218.00000.demsullivan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200702122218.00000.demsullivan@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001201c74f24$14e64240$0300a8c0@Fred> I agree with Dave on this one. Especially if we want multiple groups involved for SFD, now is the time to get the discussion started. Also, if we want to look at sponsorship for spaces etc, planning now will give us time to put together a proper package for potential sponsors. Jane -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Dave Sullivan Sent: February 12, 2007 10:18 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: March meeting On Monday 12 February 2007 9:26 pm, David J Patrick wrote: > On 12/02/07, Robert Brockway wrote: > > Hi all. I seem to recall a suggestion was made on list to make one of > > the monthly meetings a "brain storm" session for Software Freedom Day > > 2007. > > > > Is there interest in doing this at the March meeting? > > personally I think that's too early. If SFD is in September, we should > start building momentum in June. Otherwise we'll make plans, shelve > them and bring them out in the fall ? > djp I disagree.. the more planning time the better IMO.. at the very least we could have some preliminary talks. -- Dave Sullivan dave-VvnUh7fPG/k7v45Mz1C67QC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org 647-235-0328 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 13 19:45:42 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 14:45:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Virtualization on Debian In-Reply-To: <45CDC9E4.9060600-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <45CDC9E4.9060600@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 10 Feb 2007, Meng Cheah wrote: > Are virtual servers common in production systems now? Yeah they are. This has some up on various Sysadmin lists like SAGE & SAGe-AU too. > More to the point, what is your experience? I use a lot of virtualised boxes in production now. Less power consumption, less physical space needed, less heat generated, less hardware problems and a high degree of flexibility including the ability to reconfigure the virutal boxes without picking up a screw driver. If the host server dies transferring the virtual boxes to another box is easy. > What to look at first (Xen or other options) using a Debian system? I use Qemu with the kqemu kernel module. http://www.qemu.org > Any gotchas to look out for? Virtualisation costs a little in terms of performance. Even if you can pass through the instructions in an efficient manner there is still the overhead of two filesystem layers to consider. Thus it is not a good choice in high performance computing (although people are doing it). Virtualisation lets you move towards "one function per box"[1] which greatly simplifies system/network management without having to have dozens of boxes taking up space & sucking power. I regularly setup virtual boxes for the following uses: Production Web servers Reverse Proxy Servers (ie, Apache as a reverse proxy) Development/Web Development servers DB servers Extra DNS servers (I like to have 2 real DNS servers) Mail servers General shell access servers Thin Client hosting environments Demand is almost always low enough to justify a virtual box over a real box. [1] Sometimes one function can be replaced with "group of closely related functions" without violating the principal behind this idea. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 13 19:53:28 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 14:53:28 -0500 Subject: now OT: Re:PCB tools for Linux (was Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now?) In-Reply-To: <45D0BD4D.3070708-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <20070208182203.381eafbd@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45CBB86B.9070802@yahoo.ca> <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <45D0BD4D.3070708@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <1171396408.6020.15.camel@stan64.site> Speaking of PCB, what is the finest pin pitch (or one can list pacakge) that one has been able to sucessfully place and solder on a PCB without resorting to a automated expensive sol'n but rather a tech that is hobbyist based, i.e. soldering iron, oven, etc? just interested in anyone experiences, as I would like to build a PCB using a Xilinx coolrunner CPLD and maybe a FPGA and they have PLCC versions but they are WAY big, then they have ball versions and quad packs. with ultra fine pin pitches, and I would like to go really fine, but this seem like it would be trying to thread a needle with welding gloves on and looking through a stain-glass window whilst doing it, unless they make one hell of a fine soldering iron and a soldering application method for this fine work? I read somewhere about tin'ing plating and and a oven, not sure if that's a tale or not. I know one can ship this stuff out pretty economically but I am intetrested in a lot of home tooling around with many pcb's, so i am thinking of getting a home milling machine (modified roland) that can do .01" traces and spaces, and assuming it does a good job, then placement and soldering is my only worry. Any real life experiences? mail me off list if like, I am interested in anyone experiences. -tl On Mon, 2007-02-12 at 14:17 -0500, Kevin Cozens wrote: > phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > The only thing we cannot do under Linux these days are PCB layout and > > routing. As a matter of habit, I use Electronic Workbench under Windows > > for circuit simulation, but I believe there is a linux-based alternative > > now. > > > Have you looked at the gEDA suite (http://www.geda.seul.org)? > > As previously mentioned, there is EagleCAD (http://www.cadsoft.de) for > schematic capture and PCB layout. The gEDA suite has gschem for > schematic capture. Associated with the gEDA suite is PCB > (http://pcb.sourceforge.net) for PCB layout. > > I haven't spent much time with any of the above. They may be nice > programs but I didn't find them that intuitive or conducive to just > starting them up and being able to use them out of the box. It may be > just a case of spending a bit more time using them first. > > The program I currently use for schematic capture and board layout is > WinQCad (http://www.winqcad.com). Yes, it is a Windows program but the > web site states right up front that you can run the program using Wine > (which I have done). > > I have found WinQCad to be the easiest program of its type to use. I was > able to start making useful schematics with it very quickly. The free > version has a 499 pin limit only. It dosen't limit the size of board or > number of layers you can have. The pin limit doesn't affect the > schematic editor. It only seems to come in to play when you try to > generate a netlist. (I'm not sure what impact it has for the board layout.) > > Its part and PCB outline libraries seem a bit limited but it is easy to > edit and/or create the part and outline libraries. It can also import > parts from other software packages. It seems to have a fairly decent > autorouter. I've mainly used the schematic editing features so I can't > say too much about the board layout aspects. > > So far, I have used it to create (or update from a very old OrCAD files) > created 5 schematics ranging in size from a single A sized sheet to one > consisting of 8 B sized sheets. > > BTW, does Octave handle equation solving along the lines of TK! Solver? > I'm talking about a program where you can enter a formula, give it some > known values for the variables and have it solve for the unknowns > without have to re-arrange the formula. > > ie. Enter the formula for resonant frequency (Fr), provide values for Fr > and C and have the program solve for L. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 13 20:31:08 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:31:08 -0500 Subject: now OT: Re:PCB tools for Linux (was Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now?) In-Reply-To: <1171396408.6020.15.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <20070208182203.381eafbd@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45CBB86B.9070802@yahoo.ca> <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <45D0BD4D.3070708@ve3syb.ca> <1171396408.6020.15.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <20070213203108.GZ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 13, 2007 at 02:53:28PM -0500, tleslie wrote: > Speaking of PCB, > what is the finest pin pitch (or one can list pacakge) > that one has been able to sucessfully place and solder on a PCB > without resorting to a automated expensive sol'n but rather > a tech that is hobbyist based, i.e. soldering iron, oven, etc? > > just interested in anyone experiences, as I would like to > build a PCB using a Xilinx coolrunner CPLD and maybe a FPGA > and they have PLCC versions but they are WAY big, > then they have ball versions and quad packs. with ultra fine pin > pitches, and I would like to go really fine, but this seem like > it would be trying to thread a needle with welding gloves on and > looking through a stain-glass window whilst doing it, unless > they make one hell of a fine soldering iron and a soldering application > method for this fine work? I read somewhere about tin'ing plating and > and a oven, not sure if that's a tale or not. I have seen the hardware guys where I work put quad pack chips on by hand. BGA I don't think so, since if you get it wrong the chip is junk and you start over with another one. Now the quad pack chips are being put on to boards with solder pads already in place using a heatgun to heat the area to melt the solder pads and attach the chip. Doing it on a board not prepared for it would probably be a pain. I think the pitch on the chips we use tend to be about 1.4mm. I think some chips may even be 1.0mm pitch, which starts to be a pain to fix if you ahve to touch of the solder on a pin. Better have something to magnify with. > I know one can ship this stuff out pretty economically but I am > intetrested in a lot of home tooling around with many pcb's, > so i am thinking of getting a home milling machine (modified roland) > that can do .01" traces and spaces, and assuming it does a good job, > then placement and soldering is my only worry. > > Any real life experiences? mail me off list if like, I am interested in > anyone experiences. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 13 23:36:01 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:36:01 -0500 Subject: is GPL3 a sign of the beast? In-Reply-To: <20070213203108.GZ7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <1171396408.6020.15.camel@stan64.site> <20070213203108.GZ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200702131836.02008.softquake@gmail.com> Or, is Stallman going to sacrifice our freedom for support from Sun? A good introduction: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=257 zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 13 23:57:43 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:57:43 -0500 Subject: Virtualization on Debian In-Reply-To: References: <45CDC9E4.9060600@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <200702131857.43812.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Tuesday 13 February 2007 14:45, Robert Brockway wrote: > > What to look at first (Xen or other options) using a Debian system? > > I use Qemu with the kqemu kernel module. http://www.qemu.org kqemu was very recently open sourced as well which is a nice bonus. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 01:58:17 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:58:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: is GPL3 a sign of the beast? In-Reply-To: <200702131836.02008.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200702131836.02008.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <608739.78282.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Or, is Stallman going to sacrifice our freedom for > support from Sun? > > A good introduction: > > http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=257 > > zb. No, Stallman is going to stick to his guns and push HARD for his vision on FREE software (free as in free speech, not necessarily free as beer). Stallman will play ball with anyone who meets his standards, be it GNU/Linux or someone else... I attended a talk by Richard Stallman in 1989, and the one thing that I really came away with was he missed his calling as a religious prophet. In December 2006 I exchanged e-mails with Stallman doing an interview for the now dead Tux Magazine, and it seems he has not changed in any signifigant degree in 17 years. For Stallman there is his way, the right way and there is total @#$% evil, with nothing in between. So, this isn't a betrayal for Stallman, he has always been clear where he stood, and like him or hate him (and I have mixed feelings, I think every field needs one (but only one) serious ideologue, and Stallman fits the bill for free software...). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 02:06:13 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:06:13 -0500 Subject: Virtualization on Debian In-Reply-To: <200702131857.43812.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <45CDC9E4.9060600@pppoe.ca> <200702131857.43812.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <45D26E95.2090201@pppoe.ca> Fraser Campbell wrote: >On Tuesday 13 February 2007 14:45, Robert Brockway wrote: > > > >>>What to look at first (Xen or other options) using a Debian system? >>> >>> >>I use Qemu with the kqemu kernel module. http://www.qemu.org >> >> > >kqemu was very recently open sourced as well which is a nice bonus. > > Thanks, Rob and Fraser. Rob, how about a talk on virtualization and your experiences? Maybe in March? :-) Cheers Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 02:14:25 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:14:25 -0500 Subject: is GPL3 a sign of the beast? In-Reply-To: <608739.78282.qm-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <608739.78282.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200702132114.25889.softquake@gmail.com> Our freedoms is what concerns me most. You say that Stallman will do things in the "right" way. I am supposed to believe that. I would like to. Are we not however on an edge? If kernel development splits, I will go to Torvalds. The main reason I use Linux is because I love freedom. zb. On Tuesday 13 February 2007 20:58, Colin McGregor wrote: > --- Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > Or, is Stallman going to sacrifice our freedom for > > support from Sun? > > > > A good introduction: > > > > http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=257 > > > > zb. > > No, Stallman is going to stick to his guns and push > HARD for his vision on FREE software (free as in free > speech, not necessarily free as beer). Stallman will > play ball with anyone who meets his standards, be it > GNU/Linux or someone else... > > I attended a talk by Richard Stallman in 1989, and the > one thing that I really came away with was he missed > his calling as a religious prophet. In December 2006 I > exchanged e-mails with Stallman doing an interview for > the now dead Tux Magazine, and it seems he has not > changed in any signifigant degree in 17 years. For > Stallman there is his way, the right way and there is > total @#$% evil, with nothing in between. > > So, this isn't a betrayal for Stallman, he has always > been clear where he stood, and like him or hate him > (and I have mixed feelings, I think every field needs > one (but only one) serious ideologue, and Stallman > fits the bill for free software...). > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 02:20:32 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:20:32 -0500 Subject: is GPL3 a sign of the beast? In-Reply-To: <608739.78282.qm-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <608739.78282.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45D271F0.4080704@telly.org> Colin McGregor wrote: >> Or, is Stallman going to sacrifice our freedom for >> support from Sun? >> >> >> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=257 >> > > No, Stallman is going to stick to his guns and push HARD for his vision on FREE software (free as in free speech, not necessarily free as beer). Stallman will play ball with anyone who meets his standards, be it GNU/Linux or someone else... > I think it's more complex than that. While Sun is floating the idea of releasing Solaris under the GPL3, it's reserving the right to maintain a proprietarily licensed version. That can't (or shouldn't IMO) be more acceptable to the FSF than the GPL-only Linux kernel. > I attended a talk by Richard Stallman in 1989, and the > one thing that I really came away with was he missed > his calling as a religious prophet. Maybe not. Do a Google on Saint IGNUcious. Didn't he walk out on a talk in Toronto? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 03:45:12 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:45:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: is GPL3 a sign of the beast? In-Reply-To: <200702132114.25889.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200702132114.25889.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <100632.13304.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Our freedoms is what concerns me most. > > You say that Stallman will do things in the "right" > way. > > I am supposed to believe that. I would like to. > > Are we not however on an edge? Yes and no. Define free? For Stallman the answer is free means you can get the source code and do what you want with that source code, all other issues are secondary (including cost, so Stallman doesn't object to someone changing $$$ for a piece of code). > If kernel development splits, I will go to Torvalds. > The main reason I use > Linux is because I love freedom. Well, you seem to assume there must be just one kernel, at the risk of starting an argument let me ask (even through I don't want to hear answers): - What is the best editor, vi or emacs? - What is the best desktop, Gnome or KDE? - Which is the best word processor, OpenOffice or AbiWord? and so on it goes. A year from now we MIGHT be asking: - What is the best GPL'ed OS, GNU/Linux or Solaris? Two years from now (after the destruction in lawsuits of a certain firm) we MIGHT be asking: - What is the best GPL'ed OS, GNU/Linux, Solaris, or Novell/IBM/Red Hat/Autozone/DaimlerChrysler Unixware? then sitting back and toasting marshmallows on the resulting flame war :-) . Regardless, there can be more than one legitimate answer to the question "What is the best...". My view is I am very happy where I am with GNU/Linux, but if (BIG IF) someone comes up with something better, I will consider switching... Colin McGregor > zb. > > On Tuesday 13 February 2007 20:58, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > --- Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > > Or, is Stallman going to sacrifice our freedom > for > > > support from Sun? > > > > > > A good introduction: > > > > > > http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=257 > > > > > > zb. > > > > No, Stallman is going to stick to his guns and > push > > HARD for his vision on FREE software (free as in > free > > speech, not necessarily free as beer). Stallman > will > > play ball with anyone who meets his standards, be > it > > GNU/Linux or someone else... > > > > I attended a talk by Richard Stallman in 1989, and > the > > one thing that I really came away with was he > missed > > his calling as a religious prophet. In December > 2006 I > > exchanged e-mails with Stallman doing an interview > for > > the now dead Tux Magazine, and it seems he has not > > changed in any signifigant degree in 17 years. For > > Stallman there is his way, the right way and there > is > > total @#$% evil, with nothing in between. > > > > So, this isn't a betrayal for Stallman, he has > always > > been clear where he stood, and like him or hate > him > > (and I have mixed feelings, I think every field > needs > > one (but only one) serious ideologue, and Stallman > > fits the bill for free software...). > > > > Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 03:52:22 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:52:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: Virtualization on Debian In-Reply-To: <45D26E95.2090201-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <45CDC9E4.9060600@pppoe.ca> <200702131857.43812.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <45D26E95.2090201@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Feb 2007, Meng Cheah wrote: > Rob, how about a talk on virtualization and your experiences? > Maybe in March? :-) Hahaha - you know that's actually not a bad idea :) And it is very cool that kqemu has recently been open sourced as Fraser noted. I stumbled across this license change only after making my last post - apparently the license was just changed without any particular announcement or fanfare. I'm now in the process of upgrading a bunch of Qemu installations to 0.9.0 which looks very exciting. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 03:57:43 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:57:43 -0500 Subject: is GPL3 a sign of the beast? In-Reply-To: <100632.13304.qm-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <100632.13304.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200702132257.44162.softquake@gmail.com> I wish others around woke up. It is already, though, somewhat late. With you - I may discuss since now on strictly technical issues, only. zb. On Tuesday 13 February 2007 22:45, Colin McGregor wrote: > --- Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > Our freedoms is what concerns me most. > > > > You say that Stallman will do things in the "right" > > way. > > > > I am supposed to believe that. I would like to. > > > > Are we not however on an edge? > > Yes and no. Define free? For Stallman the answer is > free means you can get the source code and do what you > want with that source code, all other issues are > secondary (including cost, so Stallman doesn't object > to someone changing $$$ for a piece of code). > > > If kernel development splits, I will go to Torvalds. > > The main reason I use > > Linux is because I love freedom. > > Well, you seem to assume there must be just one > kernel, at the risk of starting an argument let me ask > (even through I don't want to hear answers): > > - What is the best editor, vi or emacs? > - What is the best desktop, Gnome or KDE? > - Which is the best word processor, OpenOffice or > AbiWord? > > and so on it goes. A year from now we MIGHT be asking: > > - What is the best GPL'ed OS, GNU/Linux or Solaris? > > Two years from now (after the destruction in lawsuits > of a certain firm) we MIGHT be asking: > > - What is the best GPL'ed OS, GNU/Linux, Solaris, or > Novell/IBM/Red Hat/Autozone/DaimlerChrysler Unixware? > > then sitting back and toasting marshmallows on the > resulting flame war :-) . Regardless, there can be > more than one legitimate answer to the question "What > is the best...". > > My view is I am very happy where I am with GNU/Linux, > but if (BIG IF) someone comes up with something > better, I will consider switching... > > > Colin McGregor > > > zb. > > > > On Tuesday 13 February 2007 20:58, Colin McGregor > > > > wrote: > > > --- Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > > > Or, is Stallman going to sacrifice our freedom > > > > for > > > > > > support from Sun? > > > > > > > > A good introduction: > > > > > > > > http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=257 > > > > > > > > zb. > > > > > > No, Stallman is going to stick to his guns and > > > > push > > > > > HARD for his vision on FREE software (free as in > > > > free > > > > > speech, not necessarily free as beer). Stallman > > > > will > > > > > play ball with anyone who meets his standards, be > > > > it > > > > > GNU/Linux or someone else... > > > > > > I attended a talk by Richard Stallman in 1989, and > > > > the > > > > > one thing that I really came away with was he > > > > missed > > > > > his calling as a religious prophet. In December > > > > 2006 I > > > > > exchanged e-mails with Stallman doing an interview > > > > for > > > > > the now dead Tux Magazine, and it seems he has not > > > changed in any signifigant degree in 17 years. For > > > Stallman there is his way, the right way and there > > > > is > > > > > total @#$% evil, with nothing in between. > > > > > > So, this isn't a betrayal for Stallman, he has > > > > always > > > > > been clear where he stood, and like him or hate > > > > him > > > > > (and I have mixed feelings, I think every field > > > > needs > > > > > one (but only one) serious ideologue, and Stallman > > > fits the bill for free software...). > > > > > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 13:23:31 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 08:23:31 -0500 Subject: is GPL3 a sign of the beast? In-Reply-To: <200702131836.02008.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <1171396408.6020.15.camel@stan64.site> <20070213203108.GZ7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200702131836.02008.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45D30D53.9020200@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Or, is Stallman going to sacrifice our freedom for support from Sun? > > A good introduction: > > http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=257 > > While I'm certainly no expert on this, I get the impression that GPL 3 goes too far and is starting to impose restrictions that may be harmful to Linux. As for RMS, while he certainly has a lot to take credit for, I suspect he may be too much of a "fundamentalist" for the good of open source software. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 13:32:07 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 08:32:07 -0500 Subject: is GPL3 a sign of the beast? In-Reply-To: <608739.78282.qm-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <608739.78282.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45D30F57.5010608@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > So, this isn't a betrayal for Stallman, he has always > been clear where he stood, and like him or hate him > (and I have mixed feelings, I think every field needs > one (but only one) serious ideologue, and Stallman > fits the bill for free software...). > > As I mentioned in another note, he strikes me as a fundamentalist and you always have to be careful with fundamentalists, because they never consider the possibility they might be wrong. It's entirely possible he might take things too far. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 13:54:54 2007 From: mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Marcel Gagne) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 08:54:54 -0500 Subject: is GPL3 a sign of the beast? In-Reply-To: <100632.13304.qm-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <100632.13304.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200702140854.54351.mggagne@salmar.com> Hello all, On February 13, 2007 10:45:12 pm Colin McGregor wrote: > > (even through I don't want to hear answers): For all the answers you get on this one, I can only say, "You asked for it" [ insert appropriate smiley here ]. And since I can't resist . . . > - What is the best editor, vi or emacs? vi, of course, and in keeping with the subject line, there's also the Editor of the beast, VIVIVI. > - What is the best desktop, Gnome or KDE? KDE > - Which is the best word processor, OpenOffice or > AbiWord? OpenOffice.org > - What is the best GPL'ed OS, GNU/Linux or Solaris? I'd answer, but my sides are hurting from all the laughing I did on this one. I suppose you could even ask, "Which GPL'ed OS is best, GNU/Linux or Linux?" Now that would be funny. > Two years from now (after the destruction in lawsuits > of a certain firm) we MIGHT be asking: > > - What is the best GPL'ed OS, GNU/Linux, Solaris, or > Novell/IBM/Red Hat/Autozone/DaimlerChrysler Unixware? Somehow, that one wasn't as funny. Take care out there, and Happy Valentine's Day. -- Marcel (Writer and Free Thinker at Large) Gagn? Note: This massagee wos nat speel or gramer-checkered. Mandatory home page reference - http://www.marcelgagne.com/ Author of the "Moving to Linux" series of books and the all new, "Moving to Free Software" Join the WFTL-LUG : http://www.marcelgagne.com/wftllugform.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 14:34:55 2007 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:34:55 -0500 Subject: PegaSoft - One Day - P3P Message-ID: <1171463695.15608.1.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> We're looking for 3 more people so we can book the Linux Caffe. The next PegaSoft dinner meeting is Date: Thursday, February 15, 2007 at 7:00 pm Location: the Linux Caffe. Topic: P3P Privacy Policies (Ken B) Those "privacy policies" at the bottom of web pages are more than legal documents. They are also XML files formatted for the P3P privacy policy standard and are used by modern web browsers. This is a basic introduction to P3P and how to add privacy policies to your web site. Attendance is free but we ask you to tell us your coming (RSVP) so we can confirm there's enough people to keep the Linux Caffe open after hours for this event. Send an email to Ken Burtch (address on http://www.pegasoft.ca/people.html). -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 14:35:33 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:35:33 -0500 Subject: Wiki Updates Message-ID: At the 2006-01-22 board meeting, we discussed the notion of setting up a central "Resources" page whose URL we would put onto business cards for distribution at the IT360 conference. That represents perhaps the cheapest possible *useful* giveaway for us to have there. The notion was that we should pick some set of topics that are likely to be of some general interest that we have some local expertise on. For each topic, we should have pointers both to traditional "global" resources (e.g. - to http://samba.org/, for SAMBA) as well as to local resources that might be able to render local assistance. It appears that there is a relevant "Resources" page on the Wiki which I can't edit. In lieu of that, I have added in an itemized list at http://gtalug.org/wiki/Site_administration listing a set of items that Colin and I came up with. Each item should have its own Wiki page consisting of pointers to global resources (HOWTOs and such) as well as to any local support sources. I have "filled in the blanks" for a number of them, but for this to become a resource worthy of publishing cards with the URL, others need to fill in the blanks and generally make it a richer set of information. There are, in effect, four things to be done to improve things: 1. Fill in the blanks. For various topics (Linux on USB key, Custom Knoppix, Linux Networking, Wireless Networking on LInux), there need to be Wiki pages set up with useful material. 2. Interlink things. I added a page on PostgreSQL, and then did a search for various places where PostgreSQL was referenced, and added links to the PG page in those various places. I did the same (somewhat; not done) for references to the Linux kernel 3. Tighten things up. When I was looking at the Linux kernel linkages, I discovered that there was info about the Linux kernel scattered in various places. To some degree, I drew it to one main place. There is material already on Networking that could be drawn into a single central Wiki page, which would doubtless make it more useful. 4. Finally, having a central "link farm" page of sorts Having one page that quickly links to many topics of interest gives us a single URL that we can give out to people. There is a "Resources" page; it's somewhat locked against editing, so someone administrative on the Wiki needs to help out with that piece. If a dozen people each add / improve a page, and add some links within the wiki, and draw material from various places into the Page For A Topic, I think this wiki can be a resource of some significant value worthy of distributing cards with the URL on it. If I'm the only one that does anything, it won't be worthy of that... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 14:53:11 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:53:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: is GPL3 a sign of the beast? In-Reply-To: <200702140854.54351.mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200702140854.54351.mggagne@salmar.com> Message-ID: <516798.78004.qm@web88213.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Marcel Gagne wrote: > Hello all, > > On February 13, 2007 10:45:12 pm Colin McGregor > wrote: > > > > (even through I don't want to hear answers): > > For all the answers you get on this one, I can only > say, "You asked for it" [ > insert appropriate smiley here ]. And since I can't > resist . . . > > > - What is the best editor, vi or emacs? > > vi, of course, and in keeping with the subject line, > there's also the Editor > of the beast, VIVIVI. > > > - What is the best desktop, Gnome or KDE? > > KDE > > > - Which is the best word processor, OpenOffice or > > AbiWord? > > OpenOffice.org > > > - What is the best GPL'ed OS, GNU/Linux or > Solaris? > > I'd answer, but my sides are hurting from all the > laughing I did on this one. > I suppose you could even ask, "Which GPL'ed OS is > best, GNU/Linux or Linux?" > Now that would be funny. > > > Two years from now (after the destruction in > lawsuits > > of a certain firm) we MIGHT be asking: > > > > - What is the best GPL'ed OS, GNU/Linux, Solaris, > or > > Novell/IBM/Red Hat/Autozone/DaimlerChrysler > Unixware? > > Somehow, that one wasn't as funny. Oh, I think the thought of say a GPL'ed AutoZone Unixware is kind of funny, it makes about as much sense as buying computers from a catering company, which has happened : http://www.csrc.lse.ac.uk/LEO/About_LEO.htm > Take care out there, and Happy Valentine's Day. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 16:26:38 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:26:38 -0500 Subject: is GPL3 a sign of the beast? In-Reply-To: <100632.13304.qm-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <200702132114.25889.softquake@gmail.com> <100632.13304.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070214162638.GA7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 13, 2007 at 10:45:12PM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > Yes and no. Define free? For Stallman the answer is > free means you can get the source code and do what you > want with that source code, all other issues are > secondary (including cost, so Stallman doesn't object > to someone changing $$$ for a piece of code). But the GPL3 is adding new things you can't do with the source that you could do before while still letting other people do the same thing with the source with your changes. The GPL3 is trying to control the hardware on which the code is run rather than just the code, which I personally don't think it has any business getting involved with, even though I don't personally like what tivo and such are doing with their hardware. I just won't buy that hardware. The patent stuff and other new stuff in GPL3 seems fine, but the anti DRM hardware stance is just a bad idea. Wrong place to for that battle. > Well, you seem to assume there must be just one > kernel, at the risk of starting an argument let me ask > (even through I don't want to hear answers): > > - What is the best editor, vi or emacs? > - What is the best desktop, Gnome or KDE? > - Which is the best word processor, OpenOffice or > AbiWord? Does there have to be only one libc? I have seen very good arguments that the current GPL3 draft WILL cause a fork in gnu libc. > and so on it goes. A year from now we MIGHT be asking: > > - What is the best GPL'ed OS, GNU/Linux or Solaris? Well sun seems to have picked GPL v2 for Java (not v2 or later). I highly doubt they would go for GPL v3 for solaris if they ever decide to stop using their own license for it. > Two years from now (after the destruction in lawsuits > of a certain firm) we MIGHT be asking: > > - What is the best GPL'ed OS, GNU/Linux, Solaris, or > Novell/IBM/Red Hat/Autozone/DaimlerChrysler Unixware? Certainly won't be unixware. :) > then sitting back and toasting marshmallows on the > resulting flame war :-) . Regardless, there can be > more than one legitimate answer to the question "What > is the best...". > > My view is I am very happy where I am with GNU/Linux, > but if (BIG IF) someone comes up with something > better, I will consider switching... Keeping an open mind for something better is always a good idea. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 16:38:07 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:38:07 -0500 Subject: is GPL3 a sign of the beast? In-Reply-To: <20070214162638.GA7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200702132114.25889.softquake@gmail.com> <100632.13304.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070214162638.GA7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 2/14/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > Well sun seems to have picked GPL v2 for Java (not v2 or later). I > highly doubt they would go for GPL v3 for solaris if they ever decide to > stop using their own license for it. I bet they will wait till GPL3 with Solaris release. And they will go with GPL3 for Javas as well. Which means there will be a splitting in Java development also. zb. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 16:54:49 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:54:49 -0500 Subject: is GPL3 a sign of the beast? In-Reply-To: <516798.78004.qm-iqFe0qLNPGCB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <516798.78004.qm@web88213.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45D33ED9.50909@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > Oh, I think the thought of say a GPL'ed AutoZone > Unixware is kind of funny, it makes about as much > sense as buying computers from a catering company, > which has happened : > > http://www.csrc.lse.ac.uk/LEO/About_LEO.htm > Well, at least they'd have a good supply of chips. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 16:22:16 2007 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:22:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: event at linuxcaffe; OpenStreetMap weekend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Feb 2007, David J Patrick wrote: > some details at http://www.linuxcaffe.ca/node/21954 > and more at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Toronto_Mapping_Weekend > if you're GPS inclined, come on down and join the fun mapping the town. This looks interesting. Does anybody have any experience trying to connect a Garmin eTrex GPS to linux? JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 18:54:28 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:54:28 -0500 Subject: PCB tools for Linux (was Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now?) In-Reply-To: <45D0C0B1.7050108-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <20070208182203.381eafbd@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45CBB86B.9070802@yahoo.ca> <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <45D0BD4D.3070708@ve3syb.ca> <45D0C0B1.7050108@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <45D35AE4.9070800@ve3syb.ca> Christopher Friedt wrote: > I think what Kevin is talking about above is symbolic math facilities, I looked at some information on Math packages and it sounds like it may be the type of feature I would need that is similar to what I can get with TK Solver (http://www.uts.com/ItemDetails.asp?ItemID=0100-50-0010-00). One web page made a reference to two open source programs that have symbolic facilities. Of the two, the one that I will take a closer look at is called Maxima (http://maxima.sourceforge.net/). I'm not sure if it will do what I was able to do with the old version of TK Solver but its worth a look. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 19:39:30 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:39:30 -0500 Subject: IM without a silo? In-Reply-To: <20070208163603.GC632-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070208163603.GC632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <45D36572.2090203@ve3syb.ca> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I've been using ICQ for instant messaging for a while, via gaim, and it > works fine. However, I can't send or receive messages from people who > use MSN or AOL or Yahoo! or anything else. This makes me sad. > > The question: Is there a way to have one IM setup that lets me send and > receive IMs from people in different silos? I use GAIM under Windows and Linux. I have used it to communicate with a friend of mine via both Yahoo and MSN with no problem. Check the version of GAIM you are running and update it if its old. You should also check your firewall configuration. Perhaps it is preventing you from interacting with people on Yahoo and MSN. I do have a problem with handling file transfers to/from users on several protocols but I know that is my firewall configuration. I haven't tried to work out which ports need to be opened/forwarded to allow successful file transfers. Since I seldom need to do file transfers it hasn't been a priority. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 19:51:08 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:51:08 -0500 Subject: Simple video editing? In-Reply-To: <45C97FF7.5070809-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45C97FF7.5070809@telly.org> Message-ID: <45D3682C.6020103@ve3syb.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I have two DIVX (.avi extension) video files. I want to reduce the size > of them, by reducing the size, but also by chopping off the first and > last few seconds of the clip. > > The former I think I can figure out using ffmpeg, but I'm not sure what > to use for the the latter. If the other tools mentioned by others on this list don't do what you need, you may want to look at using Kino (http://www.kinodv.org) or LiVES (http://lives.sourceforge.net/). There is also Cinelerra (http://heroinewarrior.com/cinelerra.php3) but that's getting away from a simple program. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 21:10:35 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:10:35 +0000 Subject: PCB tools for Linux (was Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now?) In-Reply-To: <45D35AE4.9070800-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <20070208182203.381eafbd@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45CBB86B.9070802@yahoo.ca> <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <45D0BD4D.3070708@ve3syb.ca> <45D0C0B1.7050108@visible-assets.com> <45D35AE4.9070800@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On 2/14/07, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Christopher Friedt wrote: > > I think what Kevin is talking about above is symbolic math facilities, > > I looked at some information on Math packages and it sounds like it may be > the type of feature I would need that is similar to what I can get with TK > Solver (http://www.uts.com/ItemDetails.asp?ItemID=0100-50-0010-00). > > One web page made a reference to two open source programs that have > symbolic facilities. Of the two, the one that I will take a closer look at > is called Maxima (http://maxima.sourceforge.net/). I'm not sure if it will > do what I was able to do with the old version of TK Solver but its worth a > look. I suspect you'll find that Maxima can do a lot of things that TK Solver couldn't. TK Solver had some limited symbolic capabilities but was more intended for root finding. It's essentially an iterative solver of sets of nonlinear equations. In contrast, Maxima will be able to find exact analytical solutions to many problems. Another package possibly worth looking for is called "Mercury"; it, like TK Solver, has limited symbolic capabilities, but is designed to provide approximate numerical solutions. It was once called "Borland Eureka", but was released as share/abandon-ware. Might be runnable atop one of the DOS emulators... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 21:29:03 2007 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:29:03 -0500 Subject: Pegasoft - One More Needed Message-ID: <1171488543.21061.7.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> We need one more person to book the Linux Caffe tomorrow night. Anybody interested in coming out for some good food and hear a talk on P3P? Ken B. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 21:34:37 2007 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:34:37 -0500 Subject: Lone Coder Blog - The Perfect SuSE Firewall Setup Message-ID: <1171488877.21061.14.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> This is the latest--and largest--entry in my Lone Coder monthly column. A 22-point guide to setting up a home firewall with OpenSuSE 10.2 with a mail server, ClamAV and SpamAssassin. I lived to tell the tale! http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_february_2007.html Ken B. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 21:57:25 2007 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:57:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Pegasoft - One More Needed In-Reply-To: <1171488543.21061.7.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1171488543.21061.7.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <865399.33417.qm@web61314.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Ken, I will be there. EK --- Ken Burtch wrote: > We need one more person to book the Linux Caffe tomorrow night. > Anybody > interested in coming out for some good food and hear a talk on P3P? > > Ken B. > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: > 905-562-0848 > "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: > ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: > http://www.pegasoft.ca > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 22:03:55 2007 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:03:55 -0500 Subject: Pegasoft - One More Needed In-Reply-To: <865399.33417.qm-ncOeX8qdkx6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <865399.33417.qm@web61314.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1171490635.21061.19.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Thanks. See you there! KB On Wed, 2007-02-14 at 16:57 -0500, E K wrote: > Hi Ken, > > I will be there. > > EK > > --- Ken Burtch wrote: > > > We need one more person to book the Linux Caffe tomorrow night. > > Anybody > > interested in coming out for some good food and hear a talk on P3P? > > > > Ken B. > > > > -- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: > > 905-562-0848 > > "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: > > ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > > "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: > > http://www.pegasoft.ca > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 14 22:06:18 2007 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:06:18 -0500 Subject: Pegasoft - One More Needed In-Reply-To: <1171488543.21061.7.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1171488543.21061.7.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <1171490778.21061.24.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Looks like we're good to go. Thanks. KB On Wed, 2007-02-14 at 16:29 -0500, Ken Burtch wrote: > We need one more person to book the Linux Caffe tomorrow night. Anybody > interested in coming out for some good food and hear a talk on P3P? > > Ken B. > -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 15 00:16:27 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 19:16:27 -0500 Subject: Lone Coder Blog - The Perfect SuSE Firewall Setup In-Reply-To: <1171488877.21061.14.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1171488877.21061.14.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <200702141916.27364.softquake@gmail.com> Ken, this is nice. It is not really for beginners. I doubt very much. For me - it is, some parts are helpfull. As LS commented me a year ago - now they buy a router to make firewalls. Helpfull anyway. On Wednesday 14 February 2007 16:34, Ken Burtch wrote: > This is the latest--and largest--entry in my Lone Coder monthly column. > > A 22-point guide to setting up a home firewall with OpenSuSE 10.2 with a > mail server, ClamAV and SpamAssassin. I lived to tell the tale! > > http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_february_2007.html Regards, zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 15 00:47:33 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 19:47:33 -0500 Subject: PCB tools for Linux (was Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now?) In-Reply-To: References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <20070208182203.381eafbd@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45CBB86B.9070802@yahoo.ca> <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <45D0BD4D.3070708@ve3syb.ca> <45D0C0B1.7050108@visible-assets.com> <45D35AE4.9070800@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <45D3ADA5.7030106@ve3syb.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > I suspect you'll find that Maxima can do a lot of things that TK > Solver couldn't. That may be the case but I never found TK Solver couldn't do what I needed. Being able to enter a formula and playing with which values I supply and which one I have it calculate is all I need. It allows me to experiment with seeing how component tolerances affect a circuit, or determine what value of component I might need based on others I have on hand. From what I have read, some of the other programs require setting up matrixes. TK Solver never required that and I hope I can find one that doesn't require it. The other nice thing about TK Solver was its ability to handle different units and allowing you to enter rules on how to convert from one unit type to another. > In contrast, Maxima will be able to find exact analytical solutions to > many problems. > > Another package possibly worth looking for is called "Mercury"; I will take a look at Maxima. Thanks for the reference to Mercury. I will track that one down and see if it looks like the kind of application I would find useful. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 15 02:06:42 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:06:42 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45D3C032.8000403@ve3syb.ca> Aaron Vegh wrote: > I thought I would provide my own impressions on Vista, in line with the > parent. > > I'm running it in a virtual machine on my MacBook Pro (Core 2 Duo > 2.3GHz). Thanks for your impressions on it. Good to hear about things from those who use a product. I don't plan on getting it any time soon even if I had a machine that could run it. BTW, be careful about saying you are running Vista in a virtual machine. From what I have heard, that is a violation of the Vista EULA. :-) -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 15 02:34:25 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:34:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now? In-Reply-To: <45CBA2AE.6030207-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Feb 2007, Stephen Allen wrote: > Yeah I don't think the Linux desktop is ever going to be reality. It I think you've made the same fundamental mistake as so many others. Assuming that there is some fundamental need that will make one desktop win over another. A common question in industry rags is "Is Linux desktop ready?". The question is meaningless as it is too general. The only viable question is "Is Linux desktop ready for $USER" where $USER may be Bob the butcher, Sally the accountant or a whole class of users in a particular industry. The answer is entirely subject to how you set $USER. A Linux desktop is a reality because it is available and it is used by many people. Different people have different needs. I've been using Linux on the desktop since 1994 & exclusively since 1996. This is not as unusual as some may think. For me a Linux desktop has been a reality for 13 years, and it is so because it fulfills my needs. It may not fulfill yours but that's ok too. Will we reach a point in which most people (or even many people) run Linux on the desktop? Maybe not but that is entirely different to suggesting that a Linux desktop is not a reality because it is. I'm typing this now from pine in a window managed by fvwm2. So long as open standards exist there need not be one all pervading desktop, Linux or otherwise. Microsoft has a desktop monopoly right now. Once this monopoly is broken[1] I hope we never see another desktop monopoly again. Remember too that the desktop of today did not exist 40 years ago. It may not exist in another 40, except in a computer museum. [1] This will happen eventually as forever is a long time. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 15 02:50:09 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:50:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: time sinchronization In-Reply-To: <1171144095.16607.2.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <45CD81B1.2060008@visible-assets.com> <200702101408.52494.softquake@gmail.com> <20070210195321.GG632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1e55af990702101226u10e86163ka1d403f10d5a67c4@mail.gmail.com> <1171144095.16607.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 10 Feb 2007, Ken Burtch wrote: > I go right to the official source: time.nrc.ca, the National Research > Council of Canada's atomic clock. Please please please use tier 3 NTP sources. That's probably a tier 1 but could be tier 2. When end users use tier 1 or 2 it causes many problems often culminating with withdrawal of service of the organisation providing the free time servers. Your ISP should have an NTP server and that's the one to use. NTP is smart enough to adjust for delays introduced in transmission between time servers so there is no advantage in using a tier 1. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 15 03:18:31 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 22:18:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Laptop Request Message-ID: <50388.207.188.65.3.1171509511.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> I'm forwarding this from one of my Ryerson colleagues in Journalism. I can vouch for the authenticity of the request. If anyone has a pentium 3 or 4 class laptop that they'd like to give to a good cause, let me know and I'll set up the connection. Failing that, pointers to inexpensive laptops would be appreciated. Eventually, I suppose that the OLPC project may be an answer to this kind of situation, but for now.... Thanks - Peter ======================================================================= I do field work in Uganda from time to time, and over the years I have come to know a young man named William Bukenya. Until September his job was selling newspapers in front of the Sheraton Kampala. I'm not sure how he did it, but somehow he got admitted to business school at Makerere University. this is no mean feat, esp for a guy from an extremely poor family who has zero connections to anyone important. My husband and I have been helping with school fees, but the university is asking business students to acquire laptop computers. Does anyone have a laptop that is reasonably current (Pentium 3 or 4) and in not-bad shape, that they would consider donating? jagg carr-locke journalism -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jane-UlHtTOpGojasTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 15 03:34:07 2007 From: jane-UlHtTOpGojasTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Jane Zhang) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 22:34:07 -0500 Subject: Laptop Request In-Reply-To: <50388.207.188.65.3.1171509511.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50388.207.188.65.3.1171509511.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <000701c750b2$260ebf90$0300a8c0@Fred> You might want to try and post his cause on Give Meaning. http://www.givemeaning.com/ :-) Good luck! Jane -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sent: February 14, 2007 10:19 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Laptop Request I'm forwarding this from one of my Ryerson colleagues in Journalism. I can vouch for the authenticity of the request. If anyone has a pentium 3 or 4 class laptop that they'd like to give to a good cause, let me know and I'll set up the connection. Failing that, pointers to inexpensive laptops would be appreciated. Eventually, I suppose that the OLPC project may be an answer to this kind of situation, but for now.... Thanks - Peter ======================================================================= I do field work in Uganda from time to time, and over the years I have come to know a young man named William Bukenya. Until September his job was selling newspapers in front of the Sheraton Kampala. I'm not sure how he did it, but somehow he got admitted to business school at Makerere University. this is no mean feat, esp for a guy from an extremely poor family who has zero connections to anyone important. My husband and I have been helping with school fees, but the university is asking business students to acquire laptop computers. Does anyone have a laptop that is reasonably current (Pentium 3 or 4) and in not-bad shape, that they would consider donating? jagg carr-locke journalism -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 15 06:09:01 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 01:09:01 -0500 Subject: time sinchronization In-Reply-To: References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <45CD81B1.2060008@visible-assets.com> <200702101408.52494.softquake@gmail.com> <20070210195321.GG632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1e55af990702101226u10e86163ka1d403f10d5a67c4@mail.gmail.com> <1171144095.16607.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <45D3F8FD.2060401@ve3syb.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sat, 10 Feb 2007, Ken Burtch wrote: > >> I go right to the official source: time.nrc.ca, the National Research >> Council of Canada's atomic clock. [snip] > Your ISP should have an NTP server and that's the one to use. NTP is > smart enough to adjust for delays introduced in transmission between > time servers so there is no advantage in using a tier 1. I tend to use one of the three time time_?.timefreq.bldrdoc.gov servers (where ? is one of a, b, or c IIRC). So far, it has been the only time server that sets my clock to within a fraction of a second to the time I hear from WWV (via shortwave) which comes from the atomic clock of the NIST in Boulder, CO. IIRC, when I tried using nrc.ca as a time server, my computer's clock was less in sync with either the WWV or CHU Canada shortwave time signals. Most people don't need the clocks that closely set to UTC/GMT time. As a ham radio operator and shortwave listener, there are times I want the time on my computer to be as accurate as possible. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 15 11:53:27 2007 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 06:53:27 -0500 Subject: event at linuxcaffe; OpenStreetMap weekend In-Reply-To: ; from jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE@public.gmane.org on Wed, Feb 14, 2007 at 11:22:16 -0500 References: Message-ID: <20070215115327.GC9508@localhost> On Wed Feb 14,2007 11:22:16 AM John Vetterli wrote: > Does anybody have any experience trying to connect a Garmin eTrex > GPS to linux? I've connected my eTrex Venture Cx to linux machines. The unit was recognised and connected to gpsd, but I haven't done much with it. You shouldn't have problems. Garmin units are suppored in Linux both through serial and USB interfaces and using both the NMEA and Garmin proprietary protocols. There are many applications available. For the purposes of the OpenStreetMap event: Some later Garmin units with USB can be put into mass storage mode. You can then just read the track files as if the unit was a portable USB drive or flash drive. Also, if you have a Garmin unit with a SD or microSD card, you can remove the card and read the track files using a card reader. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 15 11:56:41 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 12:56:41 +0100 Subject: IM without a silo? In-Reply-To: <45D36572.2090203-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070208163603.GC632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <45D36572.2090203@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <45D44A79.5040501@visible-assets.com> Kevin Cozens wrote: > William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> I've been using ICQ for instant messaging for a while, via gaim, and it >> works fine. However, I can't send or receive messages from people who >> use MSN or AOL or Yahoo! or anything else. This makes me sad. >> >> The question: Is there a way to have one IM setup that lets me send and >> receive IMs from people in different silos? I think you'd need an MSN account in order to send or receive on their 'silo' ... but these days you can use any valid email account to create one, it doesn't have to be with hotmail or msn. Luckily there's encryption support too :) ~/Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 15 12:59:37 2007 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 07:59:37 -0500 Subject: Laptop Request In-Reply-To: <50388.207.188.65.3.1171509511.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50388.207.188.65.3.1171509511.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4386c5b20702150459n271fe930tc899311106e9f716@mail.gmail.com> Hi Peter, I have a P3-500 laptop, a Compaq Armada M300 subnotebook, that is gathering dust on a shelf here. I haven't looked at it in a while, but I think it's got 256 MB RAM, a 12GB hard drive, and a 12-inch display (1024x768). I've used it to both run various flavours of Linux and Windows. I think it needs a new internal battery (for the mobo) as it doesn't retain the time at startup. I think the main battery is in okay condition. This would be on the low end of what your felllow is looking for, but I would be willing to donate it for such a worthy cause. Cheers, Aaron. On 2/14/07, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > I'm forwarding this from one of my Ryerson colleagues in Journalism. I can > vouch for the authenticity of the request. > > If anyone has a pentium 3 or 4 class laptop that they'd like to give to a > good cause, let me know and I'll set up the connection. > > Failing that, pointers to inexpensive laptops would be appreciated. > > Eventually, I suppose that the OLPC project may be an answer to this kind > of situation, but for now.... > > Thanks - > Peter > ======================================================================= > > I do field work in Uganda from time to time, and over the years I have > come to know a young man named William Bukenya. Until September his job > was selling newspapers in front of the Sheraton Kampala. > > I'm not sure how he did it, but somehow he got admitted to business school > at Makerere University. this is no mean feat, esp for a guy from an > extremely poor family who has zero connections to anyone important. My > husband and I have been helping with school fees, but the university is > asking business students to acquire laptop computers. > > Does anyone have a laptop that is reasonably current (Pentium 3 or 4) > and in not-bad shape, that they would consider donating? > > jagg carr-locke > > journalism > > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 15 13:00:40 2007 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 08:00:40 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <45D3C032.8000403-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> <45D3C032.8000403@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <4386c5b20702150500wb5a0332h5cb23061aa3c1a91@mail.gmail.com> It's a violation to run Vista Home in a vm. I'm running Ultimate, which is okay. :-) Cheers, Aaron. On 2/14/07, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Aaron Vegh wrote: > > I thought I would provide my own impressions on Vista, in line with the > > parent. > > > > I'm running it in a virtual machine on my MacBook Pro (Core 2 Duo > > 2.3GHz). > > Thanks for your impressions on it. Good to hear about things from those who > use a product. I don't plan on getting it any time soon even if I had a > machine that could run it. > > BTW, be careful about saying you are running Vista in a virtual machine. From > what I have heard, that is a violation of the Vista EULA. :-) > > -- > Cheers! > > Kevin. > > http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" > Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: > | Try to assimilate the world!" > #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 15 18:30:20 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 13:30:20 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <45D3C032.8000403-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> <45D3C032.8000403@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20070215183020.GB7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 14, 2007 at 09:06:42PM -0500, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Thanks for your impressions on it. Good to hear about things from those who > use a product. I don't plan on getting it any time soon even if I had a > machine that could run it. > > BTW, be careful about saying you are running Vista in a virtual machine. > From what I have heard, that is a violation of the Vista EULA. :-) Only for _some_ versions of vista. They did realize developers need virtual machines. So as far as I understand the EULA, you may not install Vista Home Basic and Premium on a machine and use it inside a virtual machine as well. I can't quite make out if they think it is ok to only have it installed inside a virtual machine. Vista Ultimate may be installed on a machine and also inside a virtual machine on that same machine, but you can't do anything involving DRM inside the virtual machine (I have no idea why). Vista Business is like Ultimate as far as I can tell. Vista Enterprise (which of course you can't go and buy individually) is allowed to be installed on a machine and have up to 4 virtual machines running it too on the same machine used by the same person only. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 15 18:38:02 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 13:38:02 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20702150500wb5a0332h5cb23061aa3c1a91-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> <45D3C032.8000403@ve3syb.ca> <4386c5b20702150500wb5a0332h5cb23061aa3c1a91@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45D4A88A.6030604@ve3syb.ca> Aaron Vegh wrote: > It's a violation to run Vista Home in a vm. I'm running Ultimate, > which is okay. :-) So, not only do we have 6 different versions of Vista (2 are OEM only versions) but several different versions of the EULA to boot? What a mess! -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 15 18:51:41 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 13:51:41 -0500 Subject: First impression of Vista In-Reply-To: <20070215183020.GB7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1170735569.4405.760.camel@stan64.site> <20070206043837.GA535@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070206142234.GV7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070206152020.GA640@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4386c5b20702060912i23ac6d6bna77255826af76bd@mail.gmail.com> <45D3C032.8000403@ve3syb.ca> <20070215183020.GB7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070215185141.GJ632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Feb 15, 2007 at 01:30:20PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Wed, Feb 14, 2007 at 09:06:42PM -0500, Kevin Cozens wrote: >> Thanks for your impressions on it. Good to hear about things from those who >> use a product. I don't plan on getting it any time soon even if I had a >> machine that could run it. >> >> BTW, be careful about saying you are running Vista in a virtual machine. >> From what I have heard, that is a violation of the Vista EULA. :-) > >Only for _some_ versions of vista. They did realize developers need >virtual machines. > >So as far as I understand the EULA, you may not install Vista Home Basic >and Premium on a machine and use it inside a virtual machine as well. I >can't quite make out if they think it is ok to only have it installed >inside a virtual machine. > >Vista Ultimate may be installed on a machine and also inside a virtual >machine on that same machine, but you can't do anything involving DRM >inside the virtual machine (I have no idea why). The reason why is that the DRM code in Vista works at the device driver level to disable hardware from displaying certain types of media. The virtual machine does not work at that level, and so the DRM code simply does not work in a virtual machine (so it cannot be circumvented). Freedom is clearly over-rated :-) -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 15 19:38:53 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 14:38:53 -0500 Subject: event at linuxcaffe; OpenStreetMap weekend In-Reply-To: <20070215115327.GC9508@localhost> References: <20070215115327.GC9508@localhost> Message-ID: <45D4B6CD.4090309@ve3syb.ca> Greetings. Don't know if I missed the e-mail or not but I don't recall seeing a summary of how the OpenStreetMap event. How many people turned out? How much of Toronto (and/or nearby areas) got mapped? I'm intrigued by the whole OSM concept. It would be interesting to see the resulting maps being converted for use by (or used directly by) APRS (http://www.aprs.org/) software. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 15 20:02:31 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:02:31 -0500 Subject: event at linuxcaffe; OpenStreetMap weekend In-Reply-To: <45D4B6CD.4090309-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070215115327.GC9508@localhost> <45D4B6CD.4090309@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420702151202p2521cct18ceb71ac13b0c46@mail.gmail.com> > Don't know if I missed the e-mail or not but I don't recall seeing a summary > of how the OpenStreetMap event. How many people turned out? How much of > Toronto (and/or nearby areas) got mapped? I could be wrong, but I don't think it's happened yet. It's supposed to be this coming Saturday, I think (Feb. 17, 2007). Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 15 22:09:16 2007 From: interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Interlug Lists) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 17:09:16 -0500 Subject: event at linuxcaffe; OpenStreetMap weekend In-Reply-To: <7ac602420702151202p2521cct18ceb71ac13b0c46-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070215115327.GC9508@localhost> <45D4B6CD.4090309@ve3syb.ca> <7ac602420702151202p2521cct18ceb71ac13b0c46@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <408ae1640702151409ndf2e602ib2606c087b4543d6@mail.gmail.com> On 2/15/07, Ian Petersen wrote: > > > Don't know if I missed the e-mail or not but I don't recall seeing a > summary > > of how the OpenStreetMap event. How many people turned out? How much of > > Toronto (and/or nearby areas) got mapped? You can see the results of the recent London Mapping Party, including an animation, here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/London_mapping_party There will be a similar report for Toronto. I could be wrong, but I don't think it's happened yet. It's supposed > to be this coming Saturday, I think (Feb. 17, 2007). The Toronto Mapping Weekend is coming up this weekend. There will be a presentation "Introduction to OpenStreetMap" at 11:00am Saturday and 11:30 am Sunday. This presentation is suitable for those with no OSM experience. It runs about an hour, depending on questions. Come along for the Intro if you have any interest in GPSes, maps, geo-caching, geo-tagging photographs, or even cool open source / open data projects. So, one major goal is to build interest in OSM for new participants. The other major goal is to collect and create more OSM data in and around Toronto. The weekend is also suitable for current OSM contributors. Show up early so we can get you out and mapping during the Intro. We'll have morning, early afternoon and late afternoon mapping sessions. We have lots of mapping available to suit your mapping interests: urban, suburban, highway, and your mode of transport: vehicle, bicycle, foot, skateboard, dogteam. As long as the weather cooperates. Novice OSMers will have a chance to work with the OSM software tools with experienced users around for tips and advice. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 15 22:14:36 2007 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 17:14:36 -0500 Subject: event at linuxcaffe; OpenStreetMap weekend In-Reply-To: <408ae1640702151409ndf2e602ib2606c087b4543d6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070215115327.GC9508@localhost> <45D4B6CD.4090309@ve3syb.ca> <7ac602420702151202p2521cct18ceb71ac13b0c46@mail.gmail.com> <408ae1640702151409ndf2e602ib2606c087b4543d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45D4DB4C.5030700@rogers.com> Hey, this OSM stuff sounds very cool. May I mention that you ditch older GPS units and use only those with the SiRF chips? It drastically eliminates urban canyon effects and tracks awesome through foliage. I used to have a garmin eTrex Vista, which is an awesome unit... but it sucks compared to a garmin gpsmap 76Csx for tracking. Wow. p.s. mom & pop linux distros still suck ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 16 00:23:46 2007 From: sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Steve Harvey) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 19:23:46 -0500 Subject: event at linuxcaffe; OpenStreetMap weekend In-Reply-To: <408ae1640702151409ndf2e602ib2606c087b4543d6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070215115327.GC9508@localhost> <45D4B6CD.4090309@ve3syb.ca> <7ac602420702151202p2521cct18ceb71ac13b0c46@mail.gmail.com> <408ae1640702151409ndf2e602ib2606c087b4543d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070216002346.GK91169@shell.vex.net> On Thu, Feb 15, 2007 at 05:09:16PM -0500, Interlug Lists wrote: > You can see the results of the recent London Mapping Party, including an > animation, here: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/London_mapping_party > There will be a similar report for Toronto. > I don't like raining on people's parade, but isn't most of the work already done and freely available (thanks to our tax dollars)? http://www.geobase.ca/geobase/en/data/nrnc1.html Are people really objecting strongly enough with the terms of the license (linked to by the above) to want to duplicate the effort? I have worked with some of that data and other than new developments, back lanes and the odd missing street or sidewalk mistakenly included, it is fairly complete. Of course, street names and numbers and features such as buildings of interest are absent and producing a database of annotations would seem to be a useful project :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 16 01:32:38 2007 From: interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Interlug Lists) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 20:32:38 -0500 Subject: event at linuxcaffe; OpenStreetMap weekend In-Reply-To: <20070216002346.GK91169-bEteefDXIgtmcu3hnIyYJQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070215115327.GC9508@localhost> <45D4B6CD.4090309@ve3syb.ca> <7ac602420702151202p2521cct18ceb71ac13b0c46@mail.gmail.com> <408ae1640702151409ndf2e602ib2606c087b4543d6@mail.gmail.com> <20070216002346.GK91169@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: <408ae1640702151732i52fcbd9bn39ffc3933c816f54@mail.gmail.com> On 2/15/07, Steve Harvey wrote: [some great questions] Those are awesome questions, that I'm sure you'll find answers to at the workshop. ;-) See you there. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 16 06:12:20 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 01:12:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: a convert to Seaside Message-ID: [No, not me.] This blog entry looks interesting and relevant to the topic of this week's TLUG talk. "MY Full-Circle Jouney Back to Smalltalk" http://kentreis.wordpress.com/2007/02/12/my-full-circle-journey-back-to-smalltalk/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 16 06:37:03 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 09:37:03 +0300 Subject: Compiling ntop on fc6 Message-ID: Hi all, Have anyone here had an opportunity to compile ntop on fedora core 6? I am getting an error that doesn't make sense. All the checks are okay except for obscure software like Fortran - which I don't believe are critical, but the interesting error is the listed below checking for main in -lrrd_th... no configure: error: Unable to find RRD: please use --with-rrd-home=DIR >From above, one assumes it can't see RRD binary, but I am sure that rpm is installed as seen below [root at localhost ntop-3.3-rc0]# rpm -qa | grep rrd rrdtool-perl-1.2.18-1.fc6 rrdtool-1.2.18-1.fc6 I also made a soft link of the binary rrdtool-1.2.18-1.fc6 to rrdtool, but this didn't help. Including the home path for rrd-tool as suggested by the error was also in vain. Google offered very little as the only link that come up is at the end of this mail. Any help would be appreaciate and thanks in advance. Below is the list of failed checks checking net/bpf.h usability... no checking net/bpf.h presence... no checking for net/bpf.h... no checking if gcc supports -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions... no checking for main in -lxnet... no checking for main in -lsocket... no checking for g77... no checking for f77... no checking for xlf... no checking for frt... no checking for pgf77... no checking for fort77... no checking for fl32... no checking for af77... no checking for f90... no checking for xlf90... no checking for pgf90... no checking for epcf90... no checking for f95... no checking for fort... no checking for xlf95... no checking for ifc... no checking for efc... no checking for pgf95... no checking for lf95... no checking for gfortran... no checking whether we are using the GNU Fortran 77 compiler... no checking whether accepts -g... no www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/ntop/users/18923 William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 16 14:30:16 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 08:30:16 -0600 Subject: funny hard drive "activity" Message-ID: <1e55af990702160630j2307d246vd1b29f174462ec98@mail.gmail.com> I woke up this morning to see my computer gently blinking its hdd led in a nice gentle repeating pattern. It's odd, because there was nothing happening on the computer and it was left overnight, unplugged from a net connection. So what gives? Is it spending its off time wearing itself out, or is it legitimately doing something? - optimizing the drive? I know there's a bunch of "all is well" logging happening, but this struck me as a little strange because a log would just drop its data and go quiet again. Ideas? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 16 14:59:59 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 09:59:59 -0500 Subject: Compiling ntop on fc6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070216145959.GC7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 16, 2007 at 09:37:03AM +0300, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Hi all, > Have anyone here had an opportunity to compile ntop on fedora core 6? I am > getting an error that doesn't make sense. All the checks are okay except for > obscure software like Fortran - which I don't believe are critical, but the > interesting error is the listed below > > checking for main in -lrrd_th... no > configure: error: Unable to find RRD: please use --with-rrd-home=DIR > > From above, one assumes it can't see RRD binary, but I am sure that rpm is > installed as seen below > [root at localhost ntop-3.3-rc0]# rpm -qa | grep rrd > rrdtool-perl-1.2.18-1.fc6 > rrdtool-1.2.18-1.fc6 > > I also made a soft link of the binary rrdtool-1.2.18-1.fc6 to rrdtool, but > this didn't help. Including the home path for rrd-tool as suggested by the > error was also in vain. Google offered very little as the only link that > come up is at the end of this mail. Any help would be appreaciate and thanks > in advance. > > Below is the list of failed checks > checking net/bpf.h usability... no > checking net/bpf.h presence... no > checking for net/bpf.h... no > checking if gcc supports -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions... no > > checking for main in -lxnet... no > checking for main in -lsocket... no > > > checking for g77... no > checking for f77... no > checking for xlf... no > checking for frt... no > checking for pgf77... no > checking for fort77... no > checking for fl32... no > checking for af77... no > checking for f90... no > checking for xlf90... no > checking for pgf90... no > checking for epcf90... no > checking for f95... no > checking for fort... no > checking for xlf95... no > checking for ifc... no > checking for efc... no > checking for pgf95... no > checking for lf95... no > checking for gfortran... no > checking whether we are using the GNU Fortran 77 compiler... no > checking whether accepts -g... no > > www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/ntop/users/18923 That looks suspiciously like you don't even have gcc/g77 installed. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 16 15:00:23 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:00:23 -0500 Subject: funny hard drive "activity" In-Reply-To: <1e55af990702160630j2307d246vd1b29f174462ec98-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990702160630j2307d246vd1b29f174462ec98@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070216150023.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 16, 2007 at 08:30:16AM -0600, Sy Ali wrote: > I woke up this morning to see my computer gently blinking its hdd led > in a nice gentle repeating pattern. It's odd, because there was > nothing happening on the computer and it was left overnight, unplugged > from a net connection. > > So what gives? Is it spending its off time wearing itself out, or is > it legitimately doing something? - optimizing the drive? > > I know there's a bunch of "all is well" logging happening, but this > struck me as a little strange because a log would just drop its data > and go quiet again. Cron running updatedb? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 16 15:54:08 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 09:54:08 -0600 Subject: funny hard drive "activity" In-Reply-To: <20070216150023.GD7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990702160630j2307d246vd1b29f174462ec98@mail.gmail.com> <20070216150023.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990702160754w4b726e6etdb0ea06b3b5a30d4@mail.gmail.com> On 2/16/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Cron running updatedb? Aah, that would be a good one. It was almost on the hour when I was checking, so this is quite reasonable. I'll keep an eye out for this, but I'm fairly sure I've seen this sort of oddity at non-hourly times. I'll check out any other cron jobs. Also, a screen saver under some conditions could act in this way, but I don't use one. I actually had to struggle to just make the screen just go black. ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 16 16:44:47 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 19:44:47 +0300 Subject: Compiling ntop on fc6 In-Reply-To: <20070216145959.GC7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070216145959.GC7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > > > checking whether accepts -g... no > > > > www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/ntop/users/18923 > > That looks suspiciously like you don't even have gcc/g77 installed. I do have gcc installed through yum for sure. That is backed by a rpm query. I am however not sure if gcc/g77 is installed. My assumption was that installing gcc avails all the compilers. How would you use rpm to query for gcc sub components? I also thought most of the nos weren't critical. I will try to install all those required binaries, but it will be a pain. What looked critical though, was the error before configuration script bailed out - ie couldn't find rrd. That is where I have taken a lot of time looking William > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 16 17:00:25 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 12:00:25 -0500 Subject: Compiling ntop on fc6 In-Reply-To: References: <20070216145959.GC7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45D5E329.9080507@utoronto.ca> Kihara Muriithi wrote: > > > > checking whether accepts -g... no > > > > www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/ntop/users/18923 > > > That looks suspiciously like you don't even have gcc/g77 installed. > > > I do have gcc installed through yum for sure. That is backed by a rpm > query. I am however not sure if gcc/g77 is installed. My assumption was > that installing gcc avails all the compilers. How would you use rpm to > query for gcc sub components? > I also thought most of the nos weren't critical. I will try to install > all those required binaries, but it will be a pain. What looked critical > though, was the error before configuration script bailed out - ie > couldn't find rrd. That is where I have taken a lot of time looking Try installing compat-gcc-34-g77: yum show compat-gcc-34-g77 compat-gcc-34-g77 The compat-gcc-34-g77 package provides support for compiling Fortran 77 programs with the GNU Compiler Collection. The package may be a different version on FC6 (I'm on 7test1), but I think that package should do it. For some reason yum doesn't grab a lot of gcc stuff that I would consider a dependency. Regardless, try that package and see what happens. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 16 20:50:03 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 15:50:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: funny hard drive "activity" In-Reply-To: <1e55af990702160630j2307d246vd1b29f174462ec98-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990702160630j2307d246vd1b29f174462ec98@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Feb 2007, Sy Ali wrote: > I woke up this morning to see my computer gently blinking its hdd led > in a nice gentle repeating pattern. It's odd, because there was > nothing happening on the computer and it was left overnight, unplugged > from a net connection. > > So what gives? Is it spending its off time wearing itself out, or is > it legitimately doing something? - optimizing the drive? > > I know there's a bunch of "all is well" logging happening, but this > struck me as a little strange because a log would just drop its data > and go quiet again. > > Ideas? Use top and/or ps to see what processes are running. Use lsof to see what files are open. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 16 21:02:27 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 16:02:27 -0500 Subject: funny hard drive "activity" In-Reply-To: <1e55af990702160754w4b726e6etdb0ea06b3b5a30d4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990702160630j2307d246vd1b29f174462ec98@mail.gmail.com> <20070216150023.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990702160754w4b726e6etdb0ea06b3b5a30d4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45D61BE3.6090104@utoronto.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > On 2/16/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Cron running updatedb? > > Aah, that would be a good one. It was almost on the hour when I was > checking, so this is quite reasonable. I'll keep an eye out for this, > but I'm fairly sure I've seen this sort of oddity at non-hourly times. > I'll check out any other cron jobs. > > Also, a screen saver under some conditions could act in this way, but > I don't use one. I actually had to struggle to just make the screen > just go black. ;) Fedora likes to run makewhatis and prelink at the most inopportune times once a day. Both use lots of CPU and acess the disc... Something to check, not sure if PCLOS (if that's what you still use) has those set to run. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 17 03:44:14 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 22:44:14 -0500 Subject: funny hard drive "activity" In-Reply-To: <45D61BE3.6090104-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990702160630j2307d246vd1b29f174462ec98@mail.gmail.com> <20070216150023.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990702160754w4b726e6etdb0ea06b3b5a30d4@mail.gmail.com> <45D61BE3.6090104@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990702161944k7b55fa5ue09e8e202cefb987@mail.gmail.com> > On 2/16/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Cron running updatedb? I just checked - slocate is running weekly. On 2/16/07, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Fedora likes to run makewhatis and prelink at the most inopportune times > once a day. Both use lots of CPU and acess the disc... Something to > check, not sure if PCLOS (if that's what you still use) has those set to > run. Yep, I'm still using it. makewhatis is running daily and weekly (I've no idea why) I don't see prelink The only thing running hourly is msec. perhaps it was something stupid like skype constantly trying to reconnect to a nonexistant net connection and it getting logged. On 2/16/07, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > Use top and/or ps to see what processes are running. > > Use lsof to see what files are open. lsof is a nice idea, but it seems to be overkill with so much info.. Top wouldn't be useful since there's no logging. I'd have to log back in, and in that moment I'd bet that whatever process is being naughty would slink off into a dark corner. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 17 07:22:28 2007 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 02:22:28 -0500 Subject: a convert to Seaside In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > [No, not me.] > > This blog entry looks interesting and relevant to the topic of this week's > TLUG talk. "MY Full-Circle Jouney Back to Smalltalk" > > http://kentreis.wordpress.com/2007/02/12/my-full-circle-journey-back-to-smalltalk/ How was the talk? What do people think of Smalltalk and Seaside? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 17 15:46:05 2007 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 10:46:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Feb 27 NewTLUG meeting: Linux Printing with CUPS and more Command Line 101 Message-ID: This month's NewTLUG meeting will be held Tues Feb 27th., at the IBM offices 3600 Steeles Ave E. **Important** This meeting is free and all are welcome, however, all attendees will be required to have a security badge. Badges should be prepared in advance. If you plan to attend, please send your name to Paul (off-list at ), preferably by Monday Feb 26. ...and please be sure to return badges to the front reception at the end of the session. Thanks: to Paul for helping NewTLUG not only by arranging for a room and hosting our meetings at IBM but also with looking after the badges. Badges: please email Paul Mora to pre-register Date and Time: Tues Feb 27, 7-10pm Topic 1: Linux Printing with CUPS - we will setup a small network to demonstrate printing to: 1) a local (connected to the workstation) printer, 2) a network printer, and 3) a printer connected to a windows host and sharing a local printer with a lan plus a few CUPS issues Topic 2: "Command Line 101" ...a look at and discussion of useful or essential command line commands or operations. The tentative topic for this month is: "shell expansion" ie: - wildcards etc, - what to do when they fail (xargs, find...|, perl's readdir etc) - scope of expansion (ie what gets passed to the command - esp. if the expansion does not match any entries in the working dir) also practical limits to directory sizes Presenter(s): 1) Paul Mora and 2) Matt Rice Location: IBM offices 3600 Steeles Ave East, north side of Steeles at Pharmacy/Esna Park (between Victoria Park and Warden) http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?mapdata=nGCyq1371PhhgCmx6Z%2b1cDMK7StVSEOC8pv6WLEwpPl4J5csVKolXMC1br3AveG47eAtFWeuZ%2bwJ2KM5Oq7LBuLnoWwdmj0b8XrxuhJWdRt2Mc4gVOIEVqcICHRlLm6XTuuZzJMzAZAf3OoErhbEoEZ9FStAjnRb7vrPmDxfzc6Dkdp3pAlh6ZFovnxcYwyt1e0eUfOZpFdN4rspAMvur8zk2XOMgoEZ6s2G1gxGZI6fILrLIfssN9UqLRPAuYnV84Fbwn7amW8Y%2fM6NeCfvcJVGtRhNNBCahqzxnGwYk6G9JBDVKNwGC7biOuwnI5nkx95wKeq%2brOPhXzRb4XSHbA%3d%3d (sorry for the wrap) Directions: Meet at the front entrance well before 7:00pm (6:30 recommended) to pickup your ID badge. At about 7:00 we'll be escorted to the auditorium. Some provision will be made for anyone arriving a little late. Parking: Free parking is available in the visitor parkade from 6:00pm to 11:00pm. --- Herb Richter Richter Equipment, Toronto, Ontario http://PartsAndService.com http://PartsAndService.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 17 18:28:04 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 13:28:04 -0500 Subject: Virtualization on Debian In-Reply-To: References: <45CDC9E4.9060600@pppoe.ca> <200702131857.43812.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <45D26E95.2090201@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <63A8D5DE-9262-40F1-8685-0F00B06CBBD4@visibleassets.com> Well, here's my first report which is pretty decent this is on a fc6 dual opteron (248) with an areca RAID 10 In one of the guests. 500000+0 records in 500000+0 records out 4096000000 bytes (4.1 GB) copied, 91.7592 seconds, 44.6 MB/s real 1m56.271s user 0m0.348s sys 0m11.109s [root at localhost davec]# time dd if=bifile of=/dev/null bs=8192 500000+0 records in 500000+0 records out 4096000000 bytes (4.1 GB) copied, 31.5803 seconds, 130 MB/s I'm fairly impressed Dave On 13-Feb-07, at 10:52 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Tue, 13 Feb 2007, Meng Cheah wrote: > >> Rob, how about a talk on virtualization and your experiences? >> Maybe in March? :-) > > Hahaha - you know that's actually not a bad idea :) > > And it is very cool that kqemu has recently been open sourced as > Fraser noted. I stumbled across this license change only after > making my last post - apparently the license was just changed > without any particular announcement or fanfare. I'm now in the > process of upgrading a bunch of Qemu installations to 0.9.0 which > looks very exciting. > > Cheers, > > Rob > > -- > Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 > Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 > OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org > Web: www.opentrend.net > Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 17 20:40:54 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 20:40:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Borg candy Message-ID: How to lobby for support and build fandom, using an insider: http://tastyresearch.wordpress.com/work-stories/ (via slashdot) Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 18 06:12:48 2007 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David C. chipman) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 01:12:48 -0500 Subject: Borg candy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070218011248.139ae83d@david.chipman> Hi Peter, What can I say? That was a fascinating blog entry. I have to wonder though, about the slacking off that occurred. In the case of M$, it might explain the "good enough" quality of their software... Hmm? Later, -David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 18 06:25:15 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 01:25:15 -0500 Subject: Linux kernel 2.6.19 ATA drive support boobytrap Message-ID: <20070218062515.GA9071@waltdnes.org> This is of interest to those who build kernels. There's a discussion about this on the Gentoo mailing list. If you're moving from 2.6.18 to 2.6.19, and your system won't boot, and you get kernel panics about not being able to access the hard drive, this message is for you. ATA drive support in .config has been moved out of the SCSI section and into a section all its own. "make oldconfig" does *NOT* handle this properly, as I found out "the hard way". The relevant section in .config is... # # Serial ATA (prod) and Parallel ATA (experimental) drivers # CONFIG_ATA=y # CONFIG_SATA_AHCI is not set # CONFIG_SATA_SVW is not set # CONFIG_ATA_PIIX is not set # CONFIG_SATA_MV is not set CONFIG_SATA_NV=y # CONFIG_PDC_ADMA is not set Set CONFIG_ATA=y, and enable your drive controller (I'm on an Nvidia motherboard, yours will probably be different). With that change made, I am now able to boot up properly from... [m3000][waltdnes][~] uname -r 2.6.19-gentoo-r5 -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 18 11:15:36 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 11:15:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Borg candy References: <20070218011248.139ae83d@david.chipman> Message-ID: David C. chipman writes: > Hi Peter, > > What can I say? That was a fascinating blog entry. I > have to wonder though, about the slacking off that occurred. In the > case of M$, it might explain the "good enough" quality of their > software... Hmm? Later, I don't know about any 'slacking'. m$ continues to focus on 'user experience' (see under paperclip, scratch doggy and 'cool' warping windows) and raking in dollars using format user lock-in and license fee rises, and almost everyone else works hard to make their software usable and compatible (in the sense of not wiping out 5-sheet worksheets or 10-page painstakingly typeset documents when something or other happens). Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 18 14:49:43 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 09:49:43 -0500 Subject: Linux kernel 2.6.19 ATA drive support boobytrap In-Reply-To: <20070218062515.GA9071-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070218062515.GA9071@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20070218144943.GE7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Feb 18, 2007 at 01:25:15AM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > This is of interest to those who build kernels. There's a discussion > about this on the Gentoo mailing list. If you're moving from 2.6.18 to > 2.6.19, and your system won't boot, and you get kernel panics about not > being able to access the hard drive, this message is for you. > > ATA drive support in .config has been moved out of the SCSI section > and into a section all its own. "make oldconfig" does *NOT* handle this > properly, as I found out "the hard way". The relevant section in > .config is... This is hardly anything unusual. Things are moved sometimes. make oldconfig has never been a "Take my working config, run make oldconfig, hit enter on whatever it asks, and build". It is a method for answering config questions on the new kernel using answers from an older kernel, but the user must answer the new questions that don't have existing answers _correctly_. If you simply hit enter on the CONFIG_ATA question, and hence don't get asked the CONFIG_SATA* questions (which the oldconfig would have covered), well that is simply a user error. Configuring and building kernels does involve paying attension and reading the questions being asked. > # > # Serial ATA (prod) and Parallel ATA (experimental) drivers > # > CONFIG_ATA=y > # CONFIG_SATA_AHCI is not set > # CONFIG_SATA_SVW is not set > # CONFIG_ATA_PIIX is not set > # CONFIG_SATA_MV is not set > CONFIG_SATA_NV=y > # CONFIG_PDC_ADMA is not set > > Set CONFIG_ATA=y, and enable your drive controller (I'm on an Nvidia > motherboard, yours will probably be different). With that change made, > I am now able to boot up properly from... > > [m3000][waltdnes][~] uname -r > 2.6.19-gentoo-r5 -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 18 16:29:01 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 11:29:01 -0500 Subject: event at linuxcaffe; OpenStreetMap weekend In-Reply-To: <408ae1640702151409ndf2e602ib2606c087b4543d6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070215115327.GC9508@localhost> <45D4B6CD.4090309@ve3syb.ca> <7ac602420702151202p2521cct18ceb71ac13b0c46@mail.gmail.com> <408ae1640702151409ndf2e602ib2606c087b4543d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45D87ECD.2000609@ve3syb.ca> Interlug Lists wrote: > I could be wrong, but I don't think it's happened yet. It's supposed > to be this coming Saturday, I think (Feb. 17, 2007). That would explain why I haven't seen any results yet. I felt it had been some time since I saw the original messages about the event I thought it was history already. I hadn't paid close enough attention to the actual date. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 18 17:03:38 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 12:03:38 -0500 Subject: Linux kernel 2.6.19 ATA drive support boobytrap In-Reply-To: <20070218144943.GE7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070218062515.GA9071@waltdnes.org> <20070218144943.GE7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070218170338.GA9846@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Feb 18, 2007 at 09:49:43AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote > This is hardly anything unusual. Things are moved sometimes. make > oldconfig has never been a "Take my working config, run make oldconfig, > hit enter on whatever it asks, and build". I will admit to getting lazy. This is the first time it's bitten me like that. 99.9% of the changes seem to be support being added for exotic SCSI and/or RAID controllers. Since my system worked OK without this support previously, I hit "No" by default. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 18 17:39:38 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 12:39:38 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Job Postings Message-ID: <45D8490A.8494.585EFC9@sciguy.vex.net> I am forwarding this job posting to anyone interested. This is a programmer/analyst position with the Ontario College of Teachers. APply by February 23/2007. Paul King ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: hr-a7/XJQx/cRc at public.gmane.org To: "Sciguy" Subject: Job Postings Date sent: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 14:33:53 -0500 Send reply to: hr-a7/XJQx/cRc at public.gmane.org Posting 07-07 Programmer Analyst Information Technology Unit, Executive Department Regular Position - Category 7 - 2007 Salary Range $48,956 - $74,755 Purpose of Position: The Programmer Analyst's role is to define, develop, test, analyze, and maintain new software applications in support of the achievement of business requirements. This includes writing, coding, testing, and analyzing software programs and applications. The Programmer Analyst will also research, design, document, and modify software specifications throughout the production life cycle. Responsibilities: ?? Collaborate with developers, programmers, and designers in conceptualizing and development of new software programs and applications. ?? Liaise with network administrators, business analysts, and software engineers to assist in resolving problems with software products or company software systems. ?? Analyze and assess existing business systems and procedures. ?? Assist in the definition, development, and documentation of software's business requirements, objectives, deliverables, and specifications on a project-by-project basis in collaboration with internal users and departments. ?? Assist in defining software development project plans, including scoping, scheduling, and implementation. ?? Research, identify, analyze, and fulfill requirements of all internal and external program users. ?? Consistently write, translate, and code software programs and applications according to specifications. ?? Write programming scripts to enhance functionality and/or performance of company applications as necessary. ?? Design, run and monitor software performance tests on new and existing programs for the purposes of correcting errors, isolating areas for improvement, and general debugging. ?? Administer critical analysis of test results and deliver solutions to problem areas. ?? Generate statistics and write reports for management and/or team members on the status of the programming process. ?? Develop and maintain user manuals and guidelines. ?? Train end users to operate new or modified programs. ?? Conduct research on emerging application development software products, languages, and standards in support of procurement and development efforts. ?? Liaise with vendors for efficient implementation of new software products or systems and for resolution of any adaptation issues. ?? Recommend, schedule, and perform software improvements and upgrades. ?? Install software products for end users as required. ?? Manage and/or provide guidance to junior team members. ?? Other duties as assigned by the Manager of Information Technology Education, Skills, and Experience: ?? College diploma or university degree in the field of computer science, information systems, or software engineering, and three to five years work experience in the field ?? Proficiency in a variety of programming languages, including .Net 2.0, SQL, and N-tier architecture is preferred. ?? Excellent understanding of coding methods and documentation best practices. ?? Extensive relational database and operating systems experience. ?? Thorough understanding of current platforms. ?? Solid working knowledge of current Internet technologies. ?? Prior experience interviewing end-users for insight on functionality, interface, problems, and/or usability issues. ?? Able to communicate effectively with non-technical staff and with members of interdisciplinary teams. ?? Hands-on experience developing test cases and test plans. ?? Flexible and adaptable in regards to learning and understanding new technologies. ?? Knowledge of applicable data privacy practices and laws. ?? Strong English language written, oral, and interpersonal communication skills. French language proficiency is an asset. ?? Ability to conduct research into software-related issues and products. ?? Highly self motivated and directed. ?? Keen attention to detail. ?? Proven analytical and problem-solving abilities. ?? Ability to effectively prioritize and execute tasks in a high- pressure environment. ?? Experience working both independently and in a team-oriented, collaborative environment. The Ontario College of Teachers offers competitive salaries, comprehensive benefits and a modern, progressive work environment. To apply, please forward your resume no later than February 23, 2007: E-mail applications preferred: careers-AX7Uu6+3wag at public.gmane.org Indicate Posting Number in subject heading. Alternatively, applications may be mailed to: Human Resources, Ontario College of Teachers, 121 Bloor Street East, Toronto, ON M4W 3M5. As vacancies arise, job opportunities at the College are posted on the College web site at www.oct.ca Posting 07-08 Policy Analyst Policy and Research Unit, Executive Department Limited term appointment to August 31, 2007 Category 5 - 2007 Salary Range: $67,314 - $99,675 Purpose of Position: Experienced in policy analysis and research, you will provide research, policy and legislative support to the College and its governing council. Excellent analysis, writing and presentation skills required. Responsibilities: Policy & Research ??Prepare papers and recommendations on complex policy issues. ??Analyze reports and policy documents prepared by ministry or government departments or elsewhere within the education sector, preparing pr??cis of contents and directing the attention of senior staff to items of concern to the College. ??Prepare appropriate materials including presentations, position papers, briefing notes and statistical analysis for Council and Committee meetings, Legislative Committee hearings, policy conferences, working groups, task force meetings, and so forth. ??Co-ordinate the development of annual reports to the Legislative Assembly. ??Respond to senior management and Council correspondence as required. ??Respond to written and telephone inquiries regarding general policy and legislative matters. ??Identify and assess policy alternatives in terms of their benefits, deficiencies and impact on the Ontario College of Teachers and develop recommendations for consideration by senior management and the College Council. ??Provide timely and comprehensive briefings to senior staff, Council Members and stakeholders on policy issues and activities. Liaison ??Develop strong working relationships with assigned education stakeholder groups, identifying levels of awareness and concern with respect to issues and services that affect them. ??Represent the College on Ministry committees. ??Support other departments by ensuring adequate stakeholder consultation on policy proposals developed by the College. Legislation ??Research information and make substantive recommendations regarding the formulation of changes to College legislation, regulations, bylaws or procedures. ??Assist in the co-ordination of issue-specific meetings involving policy assistants, MPPs, Ministry staff, constituency office staff and their constituents. ??Ensure the development of briefing notes for the Minister of Education and other members participating in legislative debate on College bills or private members' public legislation or on opposition motions affecting the College related legislation. ??Ensure that appropriate consideration and responses are provided by the College to the concerns raised by government and opposition members and other interested parties. Issue Management ??Maintain issue-monitoring systems for assigned policy areas. ??Provide issue management support to the Manager, Registrar and the Chair. ??Anticipate possible issues by reviewing daily press clippings and other stakeholder publications. ??Ensure that the College is capable of reacting immediately to new issues that emerge from the Ministry, the legislature or from education sector organizations. ??Perform other duties as assigned by the Manager, Policy and Research The Ontario College of Teachers offers competitive salaries, comprehensive benefits and a modern, progressive work environment. To apply, please forward your resume no later than February 23, 2007 E-mail applications preferred: careers-AX7Uu6+3wag at public.gmane.org Indicate Posting Number in subject heading. Alternatively, applications may be mailed to: Human Resources, Ontario College of Teachers, 121 Bloor Street East, Toronto, ON M4W 3M5. As vacancies arise, job opportunities at the College are posted on the College web site at www.oct.ca Posting 07-09 Corporate Research Analyst Policy and Research Unit, g Department One year limited term appointment May 2007 to May 30, 2008 Category 5 - 2007 Salary Range: $67,314 - $99,675 Purpose of Position: To provide corporate research services and legislative support to the College in general and to the Executive Department in particular. Responsibilities: Corporate Research and Library ??Analyze reports and policy documents prepared by ministry or government departments or elsewhere within the education sector, preparing pr??cis of contents and directing the attention of senior staff to items of concern to the College. ??Perform administrative, liaison and dissemination activities associated with research activities. ??Review and approve orders for materials to update or enhance the College library's collection of research materials. ??Monitor legislation and maintain the Acts and regulations collection in the College's library. ??Identify, order and maintain key reference materials for the College's library. ??Provide College staff with research support. ??Maintain corporate statistics for annual reports and studies. ??Maintain cataloguing for the College's library central collection. ??Oversee the library on-line catalogue, circulation and reporting systems. ??Supervise and support College library technicians. ??Ensure that the College is capable of reacting immediately to new issues that emerge from the Ministry, the legislature or from education sector organizations. ??Respond to College member inquiries. Legislative and Policy ??Prepare papers and recommendations on complex policy issues. ??Prepare appropriate materials including presentations, position papers, briefing notes and statistical analysis for Council and Committee meetings, Legislative Committee hearings, policy conferences, working groups, task force meetings and so forth. ??Respond to written and telephone inquiries regarding general policy and legislative matters. ??Provide timely and comprehensive briefings to senior staff, Council Members and stakeholders on legislative and policy issues and activities. ??Research information and make substantive recommendations regarding the formulation of changes to College legislation, regulations, bylaws or procedures. ??Ensure the development of briefing notes for the Minister of Education and other members participating in legislative debate on College bills or private members' public legislation or on opposition motions affecting the College-related legislation. ??Monitor federal and provincial legislation to identify implications for the College and prepare reports and/or briefing notes for the Registrar, College Council and Committees. ?? Perform other duties as assigned by the Manager, Policy and Research. The Ontario College of Teachers offers competitive salaries, comprehensive benefits and a modern, progressive work environment. To apply, please forward your resume no later than February 23, 2007 E-mail applications preferred: careers-AX7Uu6+3wag at public.gmane.org Indicate Posting Number in subject heading. Alternatively, applications may be mailed to: Human Resources, Ontario College of Teachers, 121 Bloor Street East, Toronto, ON M4W 3M5. As vacancies arise, job opportunities at the College are posted on the College web site at www.oct.ca __________ NOD32 2066 (20070216) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com ------- End of forwarded message ------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 18 18:00:41 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 13:00:41 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Job Postings In-Reply-To: <45D8490A.8494.585EFC9-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <45D8490A.8494.585EFC9@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <200702181300.41945.softquake@gmail.com> There would be no job postings if this society functioned in a different way. zb. On Sunday 18 February 2007 12:39, Paul King wrote: > I am forwarding this job posting to anyone interested. This is a > programmer/analyst position with the Ontario College of Teachers. APply by > February 23/2007. > > Paul King > > ------- Forwarded message follows ------- > From: hr-a7/XJQx/cRc at public.gmane.org > To: "Sciguy" > Subject: Job Postings > Date sent: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 14:33:53 -0500 > Send reply to: hr-a7/XJQx/cRc at public.gmane.org > > > Posting 07-07 > Programmer Analyst > Information Technology Unit, Executive Department > > Regular Position - Category 7 - 2007 Salary Range $48,956 - $74,755 > > Purpose of Position: > The Programmer Analyst's role is to define, develop, test, analyze, and > maintain new software applications in support of the achievement of > business requirements. This includes writing, coding, testing, and > analyzing software programs and applications. The Programmer Analyst will > also research, design, document, and modify software specifications > throughout the production life cycle. > > Responsibilities: > ? Collaborate with developers, programmers, and designers in > conceptualizing and development of new software programs and > applications. ? Liaise with network administrators, business analysts, and > software engineers to assist in resolving problems with software products > or company software systems. > ? Analyze and assess existing business systems and procedures. > ? Assist in the definition, development, and documentation of > software's business requirements, objectives, deliverables, and > specifications on a project-by-project basis in collaboration with internal > users and departments. > ? Assist in defining software development project plans, including > scoping, scheduling, and implementation. > ? Research, identify, analyze, and fulfill requirements of all > internal and external program users. > ? Consistently write, translate, and code software programs and > applications according to specifications. > ? Write programming scripts to enhance functionality and/or > performance of company applications as necessary. > ? Design, run and monitor software performance tests on new and > existing programs for the purposes of correcting errors, isolating > areas for improvement, and general debugging. > ? Administer critical analysis of test results and deliver solutions > to problem areas. > ? Generate statistics and write reports for management and/or team > members on the status of the programming process. > ? Develop and maintain user manuals and guidelines. > ? Train end users to operate new or modified programs. > ? Conduct research on emerging application development software > products, languages, and standards in support of procurement and > development efforts. > ? Liaise with vendors for efficient implementation of new software > products or systems and for resolution of any adaptation issues. > ? Recommend, schedule, and perform software improvements and upgrades. > ? Install software products for end users as required. > ? Manage and/or provide guidance to junior team members. > ? Other duties as assigned by the Manager of Information Technology > > Education, Skills, and Experience: > ? College diploma or university degree in the field of computer > science, information systems, or software engineering, and three to > five years work experience in the field > ? Proficiency in a variety of programming languages, including .Net > 2.0, SQL, and N-tier architecture is preferred. > ? Excellent understanding of coding methods and documentation best > practices. > ? Extensive relational database and operating systems experience. > ? Thorough understanding of current platforms. > ? Solid working knowledge of current Internet technologies. > ? Prior experience interviewing end-users for insight on > functionality, interface, problems, and/or usability issues. > ? Able to communicate effectively with non-technical staff and with > members of interdisciplinary teams. > ? Hands-on experience developing test cases and test plans. > ? Flexible and adaptable in regards to learning and understanding new > technologies. > ? Knowledge of applicable data privacy practices and laws. > ? Strong English language written, oral, and interpersonal > communication skills. French language proficiency is an asset. > ? Ability to conduct research into software-related issues and > products. > ? Highly self motivated and directed. > ? Keen attention to detail. > ? Proven analytical and problem-solving abilities. > ? Ability to effectively prioritize and execute tasks in a high- > pressure environment. > ? Experience working both independently and in a team-oriented, > collaborative environment. > > The Ontario College of Teachers offers competitive salaries, > comprehensive benefits and a modern, progressive work environment. > To apply, please forward your resume no later than February 23, 2007: > E-mail applications preferred: careers-AX7Uu6+3wag at public.gmane.org Indicate Posting Number in > subject heading. > Alternatively, applications may be mailed to: Human Resources, Ontario > College of Teachers, > 121 Bloor Street East, Toronto, ON M4W 3M5. > As vacancies arise, job opportunities at the College are posted on the > College web site at www.oct.ca > > > > > Posting 07-08 > Policy Analyst > Policy and Research Unit, Executive Department > > Limited term appointment to August 31, 2007 > Category 5 - 2007 Salary Range: $67,314 - $99,675 > > Purpose of Position: > Experienced in policy analysis and research, you will provide research, > policy and legislative support to the College and its governing council. > Excellent analysis, writing and presentation skills required. > > Responsibilities: > Policy & Research > ?Prepare papers and recommendations on complex policy issues. > ?Analyze reports and policy documents prepared by ministry or > government departments or elsewhere within the education sector, > preparing pr?cis of contents and directing the attention of senior staff > to items of concern to the College. > ?Prepare appropriate materials including presentations, position > papers, briefing notes and statistical analysis for Council and > Committee meetings, Legislative Committee hearings, policy conferences, > working groups, task force meetings, and so forth. > ?Co-ordinate the development of annual reports to the Legislative > Assembly. > ?Respond to senior management and Council correspondence as required. > ?Respond to written and telephone inquiries regarding general policy > and legislative matters. > ?Identify and assess policy alternatives in terms of their benefits, > deficiencies and impact on the Ontario College of Teachers and develop > recommendations for consideration by senior management and the College > Council. ?Provide timely and comprehensive briefings to senior staff, > Council Members and stakeholders on policy issues and activities. > > Liaison > ?Develop strong working relationships with assigned education > stakeholder groups, identifying levels of awareness and concern with > respect to issues and services that affect them. > ?Represent the College on Ministry committees. > ?Support other departments by ensuring adequate stakeholder > consultation on policy proposals developed by the College. > > Legislation > ?Research information and make substantive recommendations regarding > the formulation of changes to College legislation, regulations, bylaws > or procedures. > ?Assist in the co-ordination of issue-specific meetings involving > policy assistants, MPPs, Ministry staff, constituency office staff and > their constituents. > ?Ensure the development of briefing notes for the Minister of > Education and other members participating in legislative debate on > College bills or private members' public legislation or on opposition > motions affecting the College related legislation. > ?Ensure that appropriate consideration and responses are provided by > the College to the concerns raised by government and opposition members > and other interested parties. > > Issue Management > ?Maintain issue-monitoring systems for assigned policy areas. > ?Provide issue management support to the Manager, Registrar and the > Chair. > ?Anticipate possible issues by reviewing daily press clippings and > other stakeholder publications. > ?Ensure that the College is capable of reacting immediately to new > issues that emerge from the Ministry, the legislature or from education > sector organizations. > ?Perform other duties as assigned by the Manager, Policy and Research > > > > > The Ontario College of Teachers offers competitive salaries, > comprehensive benefits and a modern, progressive work environment. > To apply, please forward your resume no later than February 23, 2007 > E-mail applications preferred: careers-AX7Uu6+3wag at public.gmane.org Indicate Posting Number in > subject heading. > Alternatively, applications may be mailed to: Human Resources, Ontario > College of Teachers, > 121 Bloor Street East, Toronto, ON M4W 3M5. > As vacancies arise, job opportunities at the College are posted on the > College web site at www.oct.ca > > > > > > Posting 07-09 > Corporate Research Analyst > Policy and Research Unit, g Department > > One year limited term appointment May 2007 to May 30, 2008 > Category 5 - 2007 Salary Range: $67,314 - $99,675 > > Purpose of Position: > To provide corporate research services and legislative support to the > College in general and to the Executive Department in particular. > > Responsibilities: > Corporate Research and Library > ?Analyze reports and policy documents prepared by ministry or > government departments or elsewhere within the education sector, > preparing pr?cis of contents and directing the attention of senior staff > to items of concern to the College. > ?Perform administrative, liaison and dissemination activities > associated with research activities. > ?Review and approve orders for materials to update or enhance the > College library's collection of research materials. > ?Monitor legislation and maintain the Acts and regulations collection > in the College's library. > ?Identify, order and maintain key reference materials for the > College's library. > ?Provide College staff with research support. > ?Maintain corporate statistics for annual reports and studies. > ?Maintain cataloguing for the College's library central collection. > ?Oversee the library on-line catalogue, circulation and reporting > systems. > ?Supervise and support College library technicians. > ?Ensure that the College is capable of reacting immediately to new > issues that emerge from the Ministry, the legislature or from education > sector organizations. > ?Respond to College member inquiries. > > Legislative and Policy > ?Prepare papers and recommendations on complex policy issues. > ?Prepare appropriate materials including presentations, position > papers, briefing notes and statistical analysis for Council and > Committee meetings, Legislative Committee hearings, policy conferences, > working groups, task force meetings and so forth. > ?Respond to written and telephone inquiries regarding general policy > and legislative matters. > ?Provide timely and comprehensive briefings to senior staff, Council > Members and stakeholders on legislative and policy issues and > activities. ?Research information and make substantive recommendations > regarding the formulation of changes to College legislation, regulations, > bylaws or procedures. > ?Ensure the development of briefing notes for the Minister of > Education and other members participating in legislative debate on > College bills or private members' public legislation or on opposition > motions affecting the College-related legislation. > ?Monitor federal and provincial legislation to identify implications > for the College and prepare reports and/or briefing notes for the > Registrar, College Council and Committees. > ? Perform other duties as assigned by the Manager, Policy and Research. > > > > The Ontario College of Teachers offers competitive salaries, > comprehensive benefits and a modern, progressive work environment. > To apply, please forward your resume no later than February 23, 2007 > E-mail applications preferred: careers-AX7Uu6+3wag at public.gmane.org Indicate Posting Number in > subject heading. > Alternatively, applications may be mailed to: Human Resources, Ontario > College of Teachers, > 121 Bloor Street East, Toronto, ON M4W 3M5. > As vacancies arise, job opportunities at the College are posted on the > College web site at www.oct.ca > > > > > > > __________ NOD32 2066 (20070216) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > ------- End of forwarded message ------- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 18 18:40:59 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 13:40:59 -0500 Subject: event at linuxcaffe; OpenStreetMap weekend In-Reply-To: <45D87ECD.2000609-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070215115327.GC9508@localhost> <45D4B6CD.4090309@ve3syb.ca> <7ac602420702151202p2521cct18ceb71ac13b0c46@mail.gmail.com> <408ae1640702151409ndf2e602ib2606c087b4543d6@mail.gmail.com> <45D87ECD.2000609@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On 18/02/07, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Interlug Lists wrote: > > I could be wrong, but I don't think it's happened yet. It's supposed > > to be this coming Saturday, I think (Feb. 17, 2007). > > That would explain why I haven't seen any results yet. I felt it had been some > time since I saw the original messages about the event I thought it was > history already. I hadn't paid close enough attention to the actual date. The event has been very cool so far, and some of the gang are out mapping, as I write. The density of the map, for the area around linuxcaffe, will soon be as dense as anything in North America ! djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 18 19:10:00 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:10:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: IT360 Show Planning Meeting. Message-ID: <150464.35444.qm@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> As I trust everyone knows, the IT360 Show is comming up at the end of April. This show will include the Linux World Canada show as part of the event and GTALug plans to have a booth at that show. So, I want to have a planning meeting to review where we stand on getting ready for that show. THe meeting will be: - Monday, February 19th, 2007 7:00 PM until done or store close (10:00 PM) - Starbucks inside the Indigo bookshop, 2300 Yonge St. (In the Yonge/Eglinton Centre just north of Eglinton Ave.) - All welcome. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 18 20:02:40 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 15:02:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: Electronic Name Badges. Message-ID: <119573.17887.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> One of the ideas that got briefly kicked around earlier was the idea of having electronic name badges for the likes of the IT360 show. This would be along the lines of what I did a number of years ago for a science fiction convention where I connected up a Parallax BASIC Stamp (ultra low-end controller) to a 16 character x 1 line LCD display to show various (funny) messages. This was an idea that worked out reasonably well (yes, there are a few things I would do different if I were doing it all again, and if there is interest I would be happy to note the things I thought were less than ideal about what I did first time out...). A few days ago I ran across a print out of the source code for that I used for the name badge... Yesterday I was in briefly at Linuxcaffe, and there seemed to be SOME real interest in this as an idea. So, to restart discussions, let me toss out some questions: - Is this a project that would be of general interest? - If this were to happen, each person would likely have to pay for his/her own badge (likely too expensive for GTALug to pay for), are people ok with this? - If so, is there a more cost effective LOW end controller option than the BASIC stamp? The specs./prices on the stamp can be seen here: http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=27100 There are a number of nice things going for the stamp, namely: - fairly low cost - programmable in a high level language, BASIC - 8 I/O lines - On board 9v battery clips/voltage regulator - Low power consumption - Software development tools available for Linux (which I have not tried, the only tools available when I did this were for MS-DOS...). There are also some very real limitations: - 256 bytes (NOT K bytes, bytes) of program storage,in EEPROM which must cover code and messages (the driver program plus messages of up to about 170 character can be stored in that space...). - The size of a 9v battery, which while not large is bigger than ideal for this application. In other words the ideal controller would have the same pluses (though cheaper would be nice), much more EEPROM space, and smaller. Also, while the 8 I/O lines is enough (I could feed data out to the LCD screen 4 bits at a time, thus allowing for the control lines), 11 I/O lines could make the code simpler... Ideas folks? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 18 20:30:25 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 15:30:25 -0500 Subject: a convert to Seaside In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200702181530.27183.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Saturday 17 February 2007, Yanni Chiu wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > [No, not me.] > > > > This blog entry looks interesting and relevant to the topic of > > this week's TLUG talk. "MY Full-Circle Jouney Back to Smalltalk" > > > > http://kentreis.wordpress.com/2007/02/12/my-full-circle-journey-b > >ack-to-smalltalk/ > > How was the talk? Unfortunately, I couldn't attend due to prior commitments. Had I found out about it earlier, I might have been able to do something about that. > What do people think of Smalltalk and Seaside? I've looked at Smalltalk and really wanted to like it because I have great respect for its creator but I couldn't get past the weirdness of the environment. I care about deployment issues so I'm not enthusiastic about deploying something on a server that requires VNC, or some such thing, in order to manage it. I'm also not enthusiastic about any environment that requires me to use a specific IDE or specific tools, especially one as weird and anachronistic as Squeak. I've worked with such a tool for a long time and after having made the switch to open source languages, like Python, I see using something like Squeak Smalltalk a major step backwards, even if Smalltalk is a more "pure" OO language. I can use any number of IDEs with Python but I am not forced to. I can (and do) use vim, Kate, or whatever text editor is at hand. I can use tools like grep, diff, Subversion on Python source. With Smalltalk, I can't leverage any of those familiar tools. I would need to find replacements for and relearn, well, just about everything. It is not obvious that effort would be worthwhile. In some respects, what I wrote above sounds very much like what PHP folks say about Python and Ruby so I admit that it is entirely possible that just like they miss the point of Python and Ruby because they don't know any better, I'm missing the point of Seaside and Smalltalk because I don't know any better. Perhaps there is some magic moment where the supposed advantages of Smalltalk becomes real and that I haven't encountered that moment yet. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 18 21:02:03 2007 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:02:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: Xen Virtualization In-Reply-To: <63A8D5DE-9262-40F1-8685-0F00B06CBBD4-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <63A8D5DE-9262-40F1-8685-0F00B06CBBD4@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <721198.13021.qm@web60124.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, Just some quick notes on my experience with Xen. One of the companies I work for (rimuhosting.com) was one of the first in offering Linux virtualization for web hosting; starting with UML and then with Xen. The summary is that using Xen has been very successful: from the business/consumer point of view you can get a Virtual Private Server with all the goodies of a dedicated server (full root access, own separated filessytem etc) at a small price. Technically it makes possible to add some unique features like full automated snapshot backups, console-over-ssh or easy VPS reinstalls. As it has been commented (I think), virtualization offers many advantages like added security, easier management, failure isolation etc. So in fact we're offering the customers that want a dedicated server from us that they can also get it with Xen, so they can have the features mentioned before. On the Xen downside, there are a couple of them. Of course there's some overhead, although little (not sure where the figure comes from but I'm reading 3-5%). In the VPS you give up direct access to hardware (usually not a problem) and running modules (if you want to able to recompile a new kernel without messing the settigns in the VPS'), although in our case most of them are built in the kernel or we can add them per a customer's request. Also while many web sites/services run happily with small memory (typical LAMP apps, mail etc), there are stacks or apps that consume quite a bit of memory, like anything using Java (tomcat/jboss etc), so sometimes they need an amount of memory that starts to compare with a dedicated server. Also a VPS' memory in Xen is fixed while running (it can be easily changed in a reboot), unlike other hypervisors (virtuozzo?) that allow for memory bursting (but that can lead to oversubscribing abuse too). Finally, and depending on the version of Xen, from time to time Xen hits some kernel bug and the server needs to be rebooted, so it may not be suitable for very high available servers. Regards, Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vgs-XzQKRVe1yT0V+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 18 21:20:20 2007 From: vgs-XzQKRVe1yT0V+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org (VGS) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:20:20 -0500 Subject: netstat -s Message-ID: <45D8C314.5090801@videotron.ca> Hello, Does anyone know what "packets directly received from backlog" means in netstat -s output. Also, where can I readup on the details of output of netstat -s ? Regards, Shinoj. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 18 22:20:29 2007 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David C. chipman) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 17:20:29 -0500 Subject: netstat -s In-Reply-To: <45D8C314.5090801-XzQKRVe1yT0V+D8aMU/kSg@public.gmane.org> References: <45D8C314.5090801@videotron.ca> Message-ID: <20070218172029.15322615@david.chipman> Hi Shinoj, The backlog is a part of the TCP connection algorithm. Since TCP uses what is called three-way-handshaking to initialize a new connection, if the process on the receiving system does not respond fast enough to incoming connection requests, then they need to be stored in the kernel, until the process can get around to acknowledging them. That is what the "back log" is for. Not having used netstat (in ages, at least), I'm guessing that what you are seeing is the number of packages in the 'backlog' at the time. I hope this helps, -David Chipman -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 18 22:25:29 2007 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David C. chipman) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 17:25:29 -0500 Subject: Borg candy In-Reply-To: References: <20070218011248.139ae83d@david.chipman> Message-ID: <20070218172529.4ae66007@david.chipman> Hi Peter, You say you saw anything about slacking? I would ask you to reread the stuff about the author's experience at Microsoft. He talks *loads* about the parties, and frankly, goofing-off he and the other interns were involved in. Later, -David Chipman -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 18 23:36:27 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 18:36:27 -0500 Subject: Electronic Name Badges. In-Reply-To: <119573.17887.qm-7EKNVtTItHqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <119573.17887.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1171841788.3315.149.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-02-18 at 15:02 -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > - Is this a project that would be of general interest? > - If this were to happen, each person would likely > have to pay for his/her own badge (likely too > expensive for GTALug to pay for), are people ok > with this? I'd be glad to pay for mine. > - If so, is there a more cost effective LOW end > controller option than the BASIC stamp How about an existing finished product: http://www.x-tremegeek.com/templates/searchdetail.asp?productID=11493 http://www.digibadge.com/DigiBadge_products.asp http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/7c54/ http://www.alibaba.com/productsearch/Name_Badge.html Or does it get cooler that this: http://createdigitalmotion.com/2006/09/13/wearable-visuals-phillips-lumalive-led-embedded-fabrics-give-whiter-whites-and-brighter-colours/ But you can buy this: http://www.tbuckles.com/index_files/Page435.htm > The specs./prices on the stamp can be seen here: > > http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=27100 > > There are a number of nice things going for the stamp, > namely: > > - fairly low cost > - programmable in a high level language, BASIC > - 8 I/O lines > - On board 9v battery clips/voltage regulator > - Low power consumption > - Software development tools available for Linux > (which I have not tried, the only tools avail able > when I did this were for MS-DOS...). > > There are also some very real limitations: > > - 256 bytes (NOT K bytes, bytes) of program storage,in > > EEPROM which must cover code and messages (the > driver > program plus messages of up to about 170 character > can be stored in that space...). > - The size of a 9v battery, which while not large is > bigger than ideal for this application. > > In other words the ideal controller would have the > same pluses (though cheaper would be nice), much more > EEPROM space, and smaller. Also, while the 8 I/O lines > is enough (I could feed data out to the LCD screen 4 > bits at a time, thus allowing for the control lines), > 11 I/O lines could make the code simpler... > > Ideas folks? Building one sounds like a fun project but some may simply want to purchase the finished product. However, this could be pretty cool if you could do it: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/feature/exclusive-sew-smart-diy-led-shirt-209601.php -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 00:12:40 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 19:12:40 -0500 Subject: Borg candy In-Reply-To: <20070218172529.4ae66007-lQMCrfjKGrJ3Ex1Y5TzZUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070218011248.139ae83d@david.chipman> <20070218172529.4ae66007@david.chipman> Message-ID: <45D8EB78.1040206@rogers.com> David C. chipman wrote: > Hi Peter, > > You say you saw anything about slacking? I would ask > you to reread the stuff about the author's experience at Microsoft. He > talks *loads* about the parties, and frankly, goofing-off he and the > other interns were involved in. Later, > > I seem to have missed the original message in this thread. Would anyone still have it? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 03:36:38 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 22:36:38 -0500 Subject: Electronic Name Badges. In-Reply-To: <119573.17887.qm-7EKNVtTItHqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <119573.17887.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45D91B46.4040100@ve3syb.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > - If so, is there a more cost effective LOW end > controller option than the BASIC stamp? > > The specs./prices on the stamp can be seen here: > > http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=27100 > > There are a number of nice things going for the stamp, > namely: > > - fairly low cost > - programmable in a high level language, BASIC > - 8 I/O lines > - On board 9v battery clips/voltage regulator > - Low power consumption > - Software development tools available for Linux I have used several different microcontrollers over the years and was considering a BASIC Stamp as a way to start getting some hands-on time with PIC's. That was until some people on the ##microcontrollers IRC channel turned me on to the Atmel AVR devices. I won't get in to why I prefer AVR's over PIC's as the reasons won't mean much to a lot of people on this list. A BASIC Stamp costs about $30US and is just a controller. A display circuit still needs to be obtained, wired up, and a program written. There are AVR equivalents to the PIC-based Stamps but the need to add a display would still exist. Fortunately, there is a better (and cheaper) alternative. Namely, the AVR Butterfly (http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools_card.asp?tool_id=3146). The Butterfly costs around $20US. On the Atmel site describing the Butterfly is the sentence "AVR Butterfly can also be used as a nametag." IIRC, it is one of the built-in demo programs of the device. The message can be edited using the on-board joystick and button. Another site with information on the butterfly has the following information: It is simply amazing what the Butterfly has built in: * 100 segment LCD display * 4 Mbit (that?s 512,000 bytes!) dataflash memory * Real Time Clock 32.768 kHz oscillator * 4-way joystick, with center push button * Temperature sensor * ADC voltage reading, 0-5V * Piezo speaker for sound generation * Header connector pads for access to peripherals * RS-232 level converter for PC communications * Bootloader for PC based programming without special hardware * Pre-programmed demos with source code * Built-in safety pin for hanging from you shirt (GEEK POWER!) * Kitchen sink. Ok, they were kidding about the kitchen sink but it almost seems like it when read over the list of features you get with this device for the money. Older versions also included a CdS based light-sensor. For those who are interested, a light sensor can still be added. The Butterfly also makes for an interesting device if you are into electronics and micro-controllers and want to learn about the AVR chips. If you decide to go with the Butterfly approach, I'll take a couple. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 04:04:29 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 23:04:29 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Job Postings In-Reply-To: <200702181300.41945.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <45D8490A.8494.585EFC9@sciguy.vex.net> <200702181300.41945.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2/18/07, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > There would be no job postings if this society functioned in a different way. Just so. In many societies, it is vanishingly rare for such things to take place in anything resembling a public fashion. Particularly for quasi-government positions like the ones Paul pointed out... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 04:07:26 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 23:07:26 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Job Postings In-Reply-To: References: <45D8490A.8494.585EFC9@sciguy.vex.net> <200702181300.41945.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200702182307.26799.softquake@gmail.com> On Sunday 18 February 2007 23:04, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 2/18/07, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > There would be no job postings if this society functioned in a different > > way. > > Just so. In many societies, it is vanishingly rare for such things to > take place in anything resembling a public fashion. Particularly for > quasi-government positions like the ones Paul pointed out... Point for you. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 04:10:07 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 23:10:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Electronic Name Badges. In-Reply-To: <45D91B46.4040100-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <119573.17887.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <45D91B46.4040100@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <50572.207.188.66.193.1171858207.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > I won't get in to why I prefer AVR's over > PIC's as the reasons won't mean much to a lot of people on this list. > OK, I'll do that ;). Actually, I think it's relevant - it's a computer architecture issue. I used the PIC in an early version of the open-instrumentation hardware, and came to regret it. We've since switched to Atmel microprocessors. Here are the reasons: The PIC has a limited instruction set, which Microchip (in a brilliant piece of marketing) claim is a virtue - you have fewer instructions to learn. However, after using the Motorola 68HC11 CISC instruction set, coding the PIC is like coding in binary. It takes many more instructions to do each task an the code is unreadable a week later. Of course, you can work in a high level language - and with the PIC, it's almost required. But, again in my experience, in an embedded application you frequently need to do things at the machine level, so you have to deal it assembly language instructions anyway. Furthermore, the PIC uses banked registers and segmented memory. You have to be very careful to ensure you're using the correct bank and the correct segment and, in some cases, you have to switch back and forth - which costs in instructions and speed. As an exercise, write a routine to output a string to a display. On the PIC, it's a terrible, obscure kluge. In their favour, Microchip do support the PIC very well, they have marketed it brilliantly, there is a lot of supporting literature available and the tools are fine. But this doesn't make up for the limitations of the machine itself. In contrast, the Atmel devices are much more like the 68HC11. They have an extensive CISC instruction set, a flat memory space and all registers are visible without bank switching. There is very little if any difference in price between Atmel and PIC and Atmel have all the usual nice features: A/D inputs, timers, on-board EEPROM and Flash, I/O ports and so on. And their literature and tools are excellent as well. Interestingly, the 68HC11 is still an excellent machine to learn on because it can easily be set up to have a monitor program in its 64k memory space that will do breakpoints, dump memory and generally allow for interactive control of the machine. That sort of thing is difficult with any of the single-chip microprocessors because the available memory space is typically 4k of flash. (Disclosure: we developed a 68HC11 board that is used at Ryerson and community colleges.) -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 04:12:32 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 23:12:32 -0500 Subject: Electronic Name Badges. In-Reply-To: <119573.17887.qm-7EKNVtTItHqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <119573.17887.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 2/18/07, Colin McGregor wrote: > Ideas folks? ThinkGeek has an actual "scrolling badge" for $30 USD. There may be other sources at slightly lower pricing; not sure... No need to start from scratch, and when the show isn't terribly many months away, it's a pretty nonsensical idea to do so. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 05:04:10 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 00:04:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Electronic Name Badges. In-Reply-To: <45D91B46.4040100-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <45D91B46.4040100@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20070219050410.97137.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Kevin Cozens wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > > - If so, is there a more cost effective LOW end > > controller option than the BASIC stamp? > > > > The specs./prices on the stamp can be seen here: > > > > > http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=27100 > > > > There are a number of nice things going for the > stamp, > > namely: > > > > - fairly low cost > > - programmable in a high level language, BASIC > > - 8 I/O lines > > - On board 9v battery clips/voltage regulator > > - Low power consumption > > - Software development tools available for Linux > > I have used several different microcontrollers over > the years and was > considering a BASIC Stamp as a way to start getting > some hands-on time with > PIC's. That was until some people on the > ##microcontrollers IRC channel turned > me on to the Atmel AVR devices. I won't get in to > why I prefer AVR's over > PIC's as the reasons won't mean much to a lot of > people on this list. > > A BASIC Stamp costs about $30US and is just a > controller. A display circuit > still needs to be obtained, wired up, and a program > written. Well, I've written the code for the Basic Stamp, and as for the displays you're talking about $10 at the likes of Active Surplus for a 2 line x 16 character display... Still, I had not heard of this Atmel AVR Butterfly controller before (not surprising as the last time I really looked at this area was about 10 years ago, and at THAT time the BASIC stamp was the best (well only) thing going in ultra-low end controllers). This Atmel Butterfly has some VERY interesting possibilities... > There are AVR equivalents to the PIC-based Stamps > but the need to add a > display would still exist. Fortunately, there is a > better (and cheaper) > alternative. > > Namely, the AVR Butterfly > (http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools_card.asp?tool_id=3146). > The Butterfly > costs around $20US. On the Atmel site describing the > Butterfly is the sentence > "AVR Butterfly can also be used as a nametag." IIRC, > it is one of the built-in > demo programs of the device. The message can be > edited using the on-board > joystick and button. > > Another site with information on the butterfly has > the following information: > > It is simply amazing what the Butterfly has built > in: > > * 100 segment LCD display > * 4 Mbit (that?s 512,000 bytes!) dataflash > memory > * Real Time Clock 32.768 kHz oscillator > * 4-way joystick, with center push button > * Temperature sensor > * ADC voltage reading, 0-5V > * Piezo speaker for sound generation > * Header connector pads for access to > peripherals > * RS-232 level converter for PC communications > * Bootloader for PC based programming without > special hardware > * Pre-programmed demos with source code > * Built-in safety pin for hanging from you > shirt (GEEK POWER!) > * Kitchen sink. > > Ok, they were kidding about the kitchen sink but it > almost seems like it when > read over the list of features you get with this > device for the money. Older > versions also included a CdS based light-sensor. For > those who are interested, > a light sensor can still be added. > > The Butterfly also makes for an interesting device > if you are into electronics > and micro-controllers and want to learn about the > AVR chips. If you decide to > go with the Butterfly approach, I'll take a couple. Well, if all I wanted was ONE electronic name badge for myself at the show, I would just re-work the case set-up for my current BASIC Stamp (the biggest problem with my current name badge). Were I doing this from scratch I would have a look at taking the Butterfly (or one of the cheaper display free Atmel controllers) and connecting it up to an LCD screen similar to what I currently use with the BASIC stamp... I am not impressed with the display on the Butterfly, it isn't as good as the display I was using about 10 years ago... I am also concerned about programming the Butterfly, nice thing about the Stamp being I could type lines like: Master: read i, char let i = i + 1 high RS if char > 30 then LCDer if char = 1 then clear i = 0 goto clear LCDer: gosub wr_LCD goto Master Ok, so UGLY code that I have not touched in 10 years. Goto commands put in to save bytes (needed when you only have 256 of them...). Still, QUICK and easy to understand just what is going on/how (even 10 years later). So, the positives on the Butterfly over the Stamp seem to be (after a quick reading on specs.): - MUCH more memory. - Programmable via RS-232 port (just need custom cable). - 16+ I/O pins - Cheaper - Limited sound built in. On the downside: - Larger - No info. on programming language (machine language?) Still, interesting stuff this Butterfly... Colin McGregor VE3ZAA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 05:08:48 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 00:08:48 -0500 Subject: Linux kernel 2.6.19 ATA drive support boobytrap In-Reply-To: <20070218062515.GA9071-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070218062515.GA9071@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <45D930E0.4060308@telly.org> Walter Dnes wrote: > # > # Serial ATA (prod) and Parallel ATA (experimental) drivers > # > Isn't there something wrong with this picture? Serial ATA is the new(er) technology -- "parallel ATA" is just a new name for what we've always called IDE, whose support under Linux I always know to be mature and not at all experimental. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 05:31:44 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 00:31:44 -0500 Subject: Electronic Name Badges. In-Reply-To: References: <119573.17887.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45D93640.90003@telly.org> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 2/18/07, Colin McGregor wrote: >> Ideas folks? > > ThinkGeek has an actual "scrolling badge" for $30 USD. There may be > other sources at slightly lower pricing; not sure... > > No need to start from scratch, and when the show isn't terribly many > months away, it's a pretty nonsensical idea to do so. Agreed. Here are some other possible options: http://www.streettags.com/PromoTagZ_Economy_RED_LED_BADGE_p/ptz-ec-rd.htm http://www.holoshop.com/ledmb.asp http://www.usbgeek.com/prod_detail.php?prod_id=0568 http://www.globalsources.com/manufacturers/LED-name-badges.html - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 06:35:25 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 01:35:25 -0500 Subject: Linux kernel 2.6.19 ATA drive support boobytrap In-Reply-To: <45D930E0.4060308-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070218062515.GA9071@waltdnes.org> <45D930E0.4060308@telly.org> Message-ID: <1171866925.5107.4.camel@stan64.site> I read that some mobo's are coming out with sata drivers (controls) in bios/firmware (which is the norm) but no longer pata support, that is now the responsibility of OS loaded drivers, no different then say for a RAID card. So it is a new thing, and it has already caused issues with making live-cd/dvd useless on those mobo's unless the live distro has the new drivers. -tl On Mon, 2007-02-19 at 00:08 -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Walter Dnes wrote: > > # > > # Serial ATA (prod) and Parallel ATA (experimental) drivers > > # > > > Isn't there something wrong with this picture? > > Serial ATA is the new(er) technology -- "parallel ATA" is just a new > name for what we've always called IDE, whose support under Linux I > always know to be mature and not at all experimental. > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From webstuff-MKqfGmd6cJs0gtvRndBQZNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 06:48:44 2007 From: webstuff-MKqfGmd6cJs0gtvRndBQZNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Craig Routledge) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 01:48:44 -0500 Subject: Linux kernel 2.6.19 ATA drive support boobytrap In-Reply-To: <45D930E0.4060308-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> (from evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org on Mon Feb 19 00:08:48 2007) References: <20070218062515.GA9071@waltdnes.org> <45D930E0.4060308@telly.org> Message-ID: <1171867724l.4918l.0l@localhost.localdomain> On 2007-02-19 00:08, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Walter Dnes wrote: > > # > > # Serial ATA (prod) and Parallel ATA (experimental) drivers > > # > Isn't there something wrong with this picture? > > Serial ATA is the new(er) technology -- "parallel ATA" is just a new > name for what we've always called IDE, whose support under Linux I > always know to be mature and not at all experimental. The experimental parallel ATA is a new codebase. There is an overview of the situation at: http://lwn.net/Articles/198344/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 14:07:49 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 09:07:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Electronic Name Badges. In-Reply-To: <45D93640.90003-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45D93640.90003@telly.org> Message-ID: <855462.93953.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > > On 2/18/07, Colin McGregor > wrote: > >> Ideas folks? > > > > ThinkGeek has an actual "scrolling badge" for $30 > USD. There may be > > other sources at slightly lower pricing; not > sure... > > > > No need to start from scratch, and when the show > isn't terribly many > > months away, it's a pretty nonsensical idea to do > so. > > Agreed. Here are some other possible options: > http://www.streettags.com/PromoTagZ_Economy_RED_LED_BADGE_p/ptz-ec-rd.htm > http://www.holoshop.com/ledmb.asp > http://www.usbgeek.com/prod_detail.php?prod_id=0568 > http://www.globalsources.com/manufacturers/LED-name-badges.html Well, the idea of electronic name badges was kicked around a little while back. From my point of view, the commercial badges are nice, but I wouldn't bother (I have a solution that I am more-or-less happy with, I would just re-work it slightly). It can also be fun to smell the flux (cleaner used in soldering), and know you will have something slightly different when done... Also, keep in mind that we are NOT talking a hard wiring project here. The display module I used for the badge has it's own controller on board, so all the wiring consisted of was 8 wires from Stamp to controller (4 data wires, 2 control wires, power and ground). Then the trick is in the software... This is all information I would be happy to share. Any event, not a big priority from my point of view, if people are interested in going down the commercial route, or buy some LOW end controllers (like the BASIC Stamp or Atmel Butterfly) and/or LCD display modules I would be happy to help co-ordinate a bulk purchase to bring down the price for everyone. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 14:11:38 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 09:11:38 -0500 Subject: Django Presentation at PyGTA Meeting on Feb. 20 Message-ID: <200702190911.39026.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Hello, I thought this might be interesting for some on this list. I will be presenting an overview of the Django web framework at the monthly PyGTA (Greater Toronto Area Python user group) meeting on Feb. 20. Django is represented as being "The Web framework for perfectionists with deadlines." In my experience, that is an apt description. I have found it to be coherent, powerful, well-documented, and very approachable. The support one can get on the Django IRC channel (irc.freenode.net, #django) and the Google Group is very good. There is an on-line book at , which fleshes out the documentation on the main site and the Wiki . When ---- Feb. 20, 2007 - 6:30 p.m. - informal part of the meeting where we can get (non-alcoholic) drinks and socialize 7:00 p.m. - formal part of the meeting starts (formal wear not required) Between 8:30 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. - wrap up and go to a nearby restaurant for beer, ice cream, hot chocolate, nibbles, sparkling conversation, etc. Where ----- LinuxCaffe 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, ON, M6G 1H1 416-534-2116 It is one block south of the Christie subway station for those who will be taking TTC. There is plenty of parking in the area for those who will be driving. Synopsis -------- I will provide an overview of how to set up the development environment and then show the code behind a site that I am working on. The site is simple enough that it will not require a deep understanding of the business rules to understand how things work. I will flip back and forth between the public face of the site, the auto-generated admin interface, and the code that I have written in order to show the relationship between them. If you do not know Python at all but have some programming experience, you should still be able to follow along. I meet many people on #django, especially PHP refugees, who are learning Python while they are learning Django so it is quite feasible. If you plan to attend, please let me know so that I can let David at LinuxCaffe know how many people to expect. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 15:38:05 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 10:38:05 -0500 Subject: tzdata for Canada Message-ID: <20070219153805.GD1674@watson-wilson.ca> I'm attempting to patch some old Red Hat 9 systems in order to comply with the new DST time change in March. I downloaded the file tzdata2007b.tar.gz from ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/. I then extracted the tar ball and issued the command zic -d /usr/src/tz/zoneinfo/ /usr/src/tz/northamerica A collection of new files are created in /usr/src/tz/northamerica. However, there is no Canada directory which is what is currently available in /usr/share/zoneinfo. How do I get the new time rules for Canada? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 17 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 16:01:48 2007 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:01:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: tzdata for Canada In-Reply-To: <20070219153805.GD1674-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070219153805.GD1674@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Neil Watson wrote: > I'm attempting to patch some old Red Hat 9 systems in order to comply > with the new DST time change in March. I downloaded the file > tzdata2007b.tar.gz from ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/. I then extracted > the tar ball and issued the command > zic -d /usr/src/tz/zoneinfo/ /usr/src/tz/northamerica > > A collection of new files are created in /usr/src/tz/northamerica. > However, there is no Canada directory which is what is currently > available in /usr/share/zoneinfo. How do I get the new time rules for > Canada? Run zic on the backward directory after building northamerica. Terry -- Terry Tanski, BSc RHCE Email: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 15:42:29 2007 From: sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Steve Harvey) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 10:42:29 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Job Postings In-Reply-To: <45D8490A.8494.585EFC9-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <45D8490A.8494.585EFC9@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <20070219154229.GM91169@shell.vex.net> On Sun, Feb 18, 2007 at 12:39:38PM -0500, Paul King wrote: > I am forwarding this job posting to anyone interested. This is a > programmer/analyst position with the Ontario College of Teachers. ... > ------- Forwarded message follows ------- > > From: hr-a7/XJQx/cRc at public.gmane.org > > > > Posting 07-07 > > Programmer Analyst > > Information Technology Unit, Executive Department > > > > > > Education, Skills, and Experience: > > College diploma or university degree in the field of computer > > science, information systems, or software engineering, and three > > to five years work experience in the field Why did they specify an upper limit on years of experience? Should I take it as a filter to remove folks who only have legacy skills, or is evidence of a the re-emergence of a social fad that I need to be concerned about? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 16:10:21 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:10:21 -0500 Subject: tzdata for Canadan In-Reply-To: References: <20070219153805.GD1674@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070219161021.GE1674@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Feb 19, 2007 at 11:01:48AM -0500, ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org wrote: >Run zic on the backward directory after building northamerica. [root at ns tz]# zic -d zoneinfo/ backward zic: Can't link from zoneinfo//Africa/Asmara to zoneinfo//Africa/Asmera: No such file or directory -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 17 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 16:31:30 2007 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:31:30 -0500 Subject: Django Presentation at PyGTA Meeting on Feb. 20 In-Reply-To: <200702190911.39026.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200702190911.39026.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20070219163130.GA24471@wp.magstar.net> On Mon, Feb 19, 2007 at 09:11:38AM -0500, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: ... > When > ---- > Feb. 20, 2007 - 6:30 p.m. - informal part of the meeting where we can > get (non-alcoholic) drinks and socialize > 7:00 p.m. - formal part of the meeting starts (formal wear not > required) > Between 8:30 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. - wrap up and go to a nearby restaurant > for beer, ice cream, hot chocolate, nibbles, sparkling conversation, > etc. > > Where > ----- > LinuxCaffe > 326 Harbord Street, > Toronto, ON, M6G 1H1 > 416-534-2116 I'm looking forward. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 16:43:58 2007 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:43:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: tzdata for Canadan In-Reply-To: <20070219161021.GE1674-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070219161021.GE1674@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Neil Watson wrote: > On Mon, Feb 19, 2007 at 11:01:48AM -0500, ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org wrote: > >Run zic on the backward directory after building northamerica. > > [root at ns tz]# zic -d zoneinfo/ backward > zic: Can't link from zoneinfo//Africa/Asmara to zoneinfo//Africa/Asmera: > No such file or directory Building backward assumes you built the whole zoneinfo set beforehand. If you want to build just the canada subset, edit backward and remove all lines other than the canada ones. Building backward should work fine now. BTW, backward is a ro file so you will have to force write it. Terry -- Terry Tanski, BSc RHCE Email: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 16:57:08 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:57:08 -0500 Subject: Linux kernel 2.6.19 ATA drive support boobytrap In-Reply-To: <45D930E0.4060308-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070218062515.GA9071@waltdnes.org> <45D930E0.4060308@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070219165708.GF7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 19, 2007 at 12:08:48AM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Isn't there something wrong with this picture? > > Serial ATA is the new(er) technology -- "parallel ATA" is just a new > name for what we've always called IDE, whose support under Linux I > always know to be mature and not at all experimental. The IDE subsystem is mature (although has lots of bad error handling issues and uses it's own device node naming system). The libata PATA support is new (mainly written by Alan Cox), and use the same libata interface as current SATA drivers (some early SATA drivers were based on the ide subsystem design). So yes libata PATA support is new and experimental, libata SATA is production code, and ide subsystem is mature, but eventually headed for deprecation. Advantages for the libata interface is a more consistent support for ATAPI and other things, and the fact all disks will be /dev/sd* devices no matter what controller they connect to. You also won't have an ide-scsi issue with the bugs it contained, as everyting will simple be scsi style interface. This is of course how BSD has done it for years. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 17:33:00 2007 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 12:33:00 -0500 Subject: a convert to Seaside In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070219173300.GA8421@wp.magstar.net> On Sat, Feb 17, 2007 at 02:22:28AM -0500, Yanni Chiu wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >[No, not me.] > > > >This blog entry looks interesting and relevant to the topic of this week's > >TLUG talk. "MY Full-Circle Jouney Back to Smalltalk" > > > >http://kentreis.wordpress.com/2007/02/12/my-full-circle-journey-back-to-smalltalk/ > > How was the talk? > What do people think of Smalltalk and Seaside? Can someone give short tutorial on Smalltalk syntax? No GUI please! -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From manimotomushi-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 19:09:52 2007 From: manimotomushi-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Manimoto Mushi) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 14:09:52 -0500 Subject: Linux+Sympatico Email Revisited Message-ID: Hi all: Some time ago I posted a problem regarding Linux + Seamonkey and email at sympatico.ca. I received a lot of good answers which helped me understand the "why" of the problem, however I never figured out a solution. So... is there anyone on this list that is able to send and receive email from the sympatico.ca "hm" email servers, i.e. the one's that have been migrated to hotmail? for example "pop6hm" and "smtphm" If so what email prog are you using? My friend who had the problem has had to use gmail since then - I cannot believe that only those using Outlook can use sympatico's email. Thanks mm _________________________________________________________________ http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=43.658648~-79.383962&style=r&lvl=15&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=3702663&cid=7ABE80D1746919B4!1329 >From January 26 to February 8, 2007 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 19:28:33 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 14:28:33 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Job Postings In-Reply-To: <20070219154229.GM91169-bEteefDXIgtmcu3hnIyYJQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45D8490A.8494.585EFC9@sciguy.vex.net> <20070219154229.GM91169@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: On 2/19/07, Steve Harvey wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 18, 2007 at 12:39:38PM -0500, Paul King wrote: > > I am forwarding this job posting to anyone interested. This is a > > programmer/analyst position with the Ontario College of Teachers. ... > > ------- Forwarded message follows ------- > > > From: hr-a7/XJQx/cRc at public.gmane.org > > > > > > Posting 07-07 > > > Programmer Analyst > > > Information Technology Unit, Executive Department > > > > > > > > > Education, Skills, and Experience: > > > College diploma or university degree in the field of computer > > > science, information systems, or software engineering, and three > > > to five years work experience in the field > > Why did they specify an upper limit on years of experience? Should I > take it as a filter to remove folks who only have legacy skills, or is > evidence of a the re-emergence of a social fad that I need to be > concerned about? I didn't read that as an upper limit .. rather I read it as 'at least three to five years work experience ..', something that I haven't worried in quite a while. ;) And in fact, if there was a limit to the amount of experience, that could be interpreted as age discrimination, something that any organization (and especially the government) wants to avoid. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 19:50:35 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 19:50:35 +0000 Subject: a convert to Seaside In-Reply-To: <20070219173300.GA8421-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070219173300.GA8421@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: On 2/19/07, William Park wrote: > Can someone give short tutorial on Smalltalk syntax? No GUI please! That's fairly much futile; integrating new classes and object instances into a Smalltalk image tends to be inextricably tied to the GUI. - You select a parent class; - Create a subclass of that parent class; - Indicate any variables/dictionaries intrinsic to the subclass - Add methods to the new class The syntax is extremely thin; the following shows a method illustrating every part of Smalltalk method syntax except for primitives... http://www.esug.org/whyusesmalltalktoteachoop/smalltalksyntaxonapostcard/ exampleWithNumber: x "A method that illustrates every part of Smalltalk method syntax except primitives. It has unary, binary, and keyword messages, declares arguments and temporaries, accesses a global variable (but not and instance variable), uses literals (array, character, symbol, string, integer, float), uses the pseudo variables true false, nil, self, and super, and has sequence, assignment, return and cascade. It has both zero argument and one argument blocks." |y| true & false not & (nil isNil) ifFalse: [self halt]. y := self size + super size. #($a #a "a" 1 1.0) do: [:each | Transcript show: (each class name); show: ' ']. ^ x < y Wikipedia also has some reasonable examples... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smalltalk -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 19:56:31 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 19:56:31 +0000 Subject: Electronic Name Badges. In-Reply-To: <855462.93953.qm-p6KvMhi7PWKB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <45D93640.90003@telly.org> <855462.93953.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 2/19/07, Colin McGregor wrote: > Any event, not a big priority from my point of view, > if people are interested in going down the commercial > route, or buy some LOW end controllers (like the BASIC > Stamp or Atmel Butterfly) and/or LCD display modules I > would be happy to help co-ordinate a bulk purchase to > bring down the price for everyone. If it were to run Linux, it would be a neat thing to buy a low end controller, but I don't think that's likely to be the case, alas... Having half a dozen LCD/LED badges carried by GTALUG folk would definitely be eye-catching, and THAT would be the point of the exercise :-) -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 20:03:08 2007 From: cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Chris Cunnington) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 15:03:08 -0500 Subject: a convert to Seaside In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here's an O'Reilly article on Smalltalk syntax: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2006/09/21/learning_smalltalk.html Chris Cunnington -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 20:38:08 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 15:38:08 -0500 Subject: a convert to Seaside In-Reply-To: <20070219173300.GA8421-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070219173300.GA8421@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <200702191538.09356.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Monday 19 February 2007, William Park wrote: > On Sat, Feb 17, 2007 at 02:22:28AM -0500, Yanni Chiu wrote: > > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > >[No, not me.] > > > > > >This blog entry looks interesting and relevant to the topic of > > > this week's TLUG talk. "MY Full-Circle Jouney Back to > > > Smalltalk" > > > > > >http://kentreis.wordpress.com/2007/02/12/my-full-circle-journey- > > >back-to-smalltalk/ > > > > How was the talk? > > What do people think of Smalltalk and Seaside? > > Can someone give short tutorial on Smalltalk syntax? No GUI > please! GNU Smalltalk seems to be the ticket if you want something that is a bit more conventional. I noticed the latest stable tarballs were from Dec. 2006 so it looks like it is being maintained, though the manual on the site is apparently obsolete. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 21:09:06 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 16:09:06 -0500 Subject: Electronic Name Badges. In-Reply-To: <50572.207.188.66.193.1171858207.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <119573.17887.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <45D91B46.4040100@ve3syb.ca> <50572.207.188.66.193.1171858207.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <45DA11F2.6000404@ve3syb.ca> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> I won't get in to why I prefer AVR's over >> PIC's as the reasons won't mean much to a lot of people on this list. >> > OK, I'll do that ;). Actually, I think it's relevant - it's a computer > architecture issue. If you insist... :-) In addition to most of what Peter mentioned, I also like that the AVR's have a RISC core (most/all instructions are single clock cycle), can operate without the need for an external crystal/oscillator/resonator, can be programmed using dead simple hardware, can be programmed in-circuit, have an instruction set optimized for use with C, C programs can be written for them in Linux (as well as DOS/Windows) using a version of the gcc toolchain for AVR, and have decent amounts of built-in memory (EEPROM and Flash) compared to some other microcontrollers I've used even in the 8-pin version. An ATtiny45 (8-pin package) has 4K Bytes of Flash, and 256 bytes each of EEPROM and SRAM. > Interestingly, the 68HC11 is still an excellent machine to learn on [snip] > (Disclosure: we developed a 68HC11 board that is > used at Ryerson and community colleges.) If someone is learning to work with computer chips they are better off starting with a microprocessor rather than a microcontroller. That 68HC11 board used at Ryerson is rather nice. I built one a few years ago after learning about it from a poster on one of the office doors during the time I was working for a company located on the Ryerson campus. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 22:13:16 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 17:13:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: Electronic Name Badges. In-Reply-To: References: <45D93640.90003@telly.org> <855462.93953.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50298.207.188.66.193.1171923196.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Having half a dozen LCD/LED badges carried by GTALUG folk would > definitely be eye-catching.. In a brightly-lit area like a convention floor, my guess is that it would either have to be an LED display or have a very bright backlight. Either way, you'd have to carry a significant-sized battery pack or be prepared to do some battery swapping on a regular basis. - Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 22:16:05 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 17:16:05 -0500 Subject: Electronic Name Badges. In-Reply-To: <855462.93953.qm-p6KvMhi7PWKB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <855462.93953.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45DA21A5.5080204@ve3syb.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > From my point of view, the commercial badges are nice, but I wouldn't > bother (I have a solution that I am more-or-less happy with, [snip] > Also, keep in mind that we are NOT talking a hard wiring project here. [snip] > Any event, not a big priority from my point of view, if people are > interested in going down the commercial route, or buy some LOW end > controllers (like the BASIC Stamp or Atmel Butterfly) and/or LCD display > modules I would be happy to help co-ordinate a bulk purchase to bring down > the price for everyone. You could certainly go the DIY route. I just proposed the Butterfly as an alternative approach since you asked "is there a more cost effective LOW end controller option than the BASIC stamp?". AFAIK, it is cheaper than a Stamp, and is a complete solution that can be used "out-of-the-box" (just insert the battery, program the message, clip it on using the backing pin, and you're done). It also requires zero development effort and parts procurement (other than a battery). A DIY solution might be preferred that uses LED's as they would be more readable and get noticed more than an LCD but would need more battery power to operate. There would also be the question of who is going to build the devices for those who would want one that don't know how to operate a soldering iron. BTW, the ATmega169 used on the Butterfly isn't exactly a LOW end controller with its 16-Kbyte self-programming Flash Program Memory, 1-Kbyte SRAM, 512 Byte EEPROM, 8 Channel 10-bit A/D-converter. 4 X 25 Segment LCD Driver, and up to 16 MIPS throughput at 16 MHz. I'm not trying to force anyone in to selecting the Butterfly method. Just putting the idea out there. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 22:27:02 2007 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 17:27:02 -0500 Subject: Sympatico email revisited Message-ID: <45DA2436.5020102@rogers.com> Soon after Sympatico started this nonsense, I was able to get Thunderbird to connect by selecting the 'Use TLS, if available' option on both the pop3 and smtp configs. This was about a year ago and Sympatico may have further buggered things up since. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 19 23:09:36 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 18:09:36 -0500 Subject: Linux+Sympatico Email Revisited In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070219180936.1a45a86c@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 14:09:52 -0500 Manimoto Mushi paid someone else to write: > My friend who had the problem has had to use gmail since then - I cannot > believe that only those using Outlook can use sympatico's email. Heck, I use Postfix to send and Fetchmail to receive. No fancy bits whatsoever, still using pop2.sympatico.ca and smtp1.sympatico.ca with no authentication (not too worried about some punk reading my mail really). Postfix relays through Symcraptico's smtp server, and I have no problems. Now, I've been using this setup for a few years, and never was forced to switch over to their egregiously annoying M$ setup with Hotmail or Passport, so that may be the difference. Also, I opted out of Sympatico's really stupid spam filtering, as it *did* make it nearly impossible for me to check my mail, I would definitely recommend dumping that crap as it was catching a lot of my list mail. It took me about 4 calls and 2 supervisors to get that shut down. Last time I called, I was told I was using their 'Classic' style e-mail service or something stupid like that, as if I was living in the dark ages. Maybe you can still ask for that ;-) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: "In the event of an emergency, my ass can be used as a floatation device." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 20 00:28:15 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 00:28:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Borg candy References: <20070218011248.139ae83d@david.chipman> <20070218172529.4ae66007@david.chipman> <45D8EB78.1040206@rogers.com> Message-ID: James Knott writes: > I seem to have missed the original message in this thread. Would anyone > still have it? http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug/31699 And I did not say anyhting about slacking. What I meant was, I think that work is bein done, but the focus is fundamentally different. Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 20 02:02:22 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 21:02:22 -0500 Subject: Electronic Name Badges. In-Reply-To: <45D91B46.4040100-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <119573.17887.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <45D91B46.4040100@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On 18/02/07, Kevin Cozens wrote: > > Namely, the AVR Butterfly > (http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools_card.asp?tool_id=3146). The Butterfly > costs around $20US. uhhh WOW ! I'll need a box of those ! now THAT's a namebadge ! whew ! > > It is simply amazing what the Butterfly has built in: > I'll say! I'be been looking at PICs, BasicStamps and SBCs, for a while, and this feature set for that price is astounding ! Let's talk bulk order, who wants how many ? djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 20 02:04:04 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 21:04:04 -0500 Subject: Remove carriage returns in a text file Message-ID: <20070219210404.6bc26128@node1.freeyourmachine.org> I have a text file that was apparently saved on a Windows box using Notepad or somesuch, because it is replete with carriage returns (^M), which only appear when I open the file with Nano. I did some searching and found this: http://www.vim.org/tips/tip.php?tip_id=26 However, when I open the file in Vim, the carriage returns do not appear. Also, what I know of how to use Vim would not fill the inside of a Barbie Matchbook (is there such a thing?) ;-) Any tips from the ubergeeks? -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Lucy Liu: That was incredible, Bender. You're like Jackie Chan before he got all doughy. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From webstuff-MKqfGmd6cJs0gtvRndBQZNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 20 02:26:36 2007 From: webstuff-MKqfGmd6cJs0gtvRndBQZNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Craig Routledge) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 21:26:36 -0500 Subject: Remove carriage returns in a text file In-Reply-To: <20070219210404.6bc26128-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> (from joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Mon Feb 19 21:04:04 2007) References: <20070219210404.6bc26128@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <1171938396l.7306l.0l@localhost.localdomain> On 2007-02-19 21:04, JoeHill wrote: > > I have a text file that was apparently saved on a Windows box using > Notepad or somesuch, because it is replete with carriage returns (^M) The command dos2unix is what you want, and should be present on most distributions. No fuss. No muss. There are also unix2dos and mac2unix. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 20 02:37:46 2007 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 21:37:46 -0500 Subject: Remove carriage returns in a text file In-Reply-To: <1171938396l.7306l.0l-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <20070219210404.6bc26128@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1171938396l.7306l.0l@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070219213746.723eb370@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Craig Routledge descended, with this inscribed on tablets: > On 2007-02-19 21:04, JoeHill wrote: > > > > I have a text file that was apparently saved on a Windows box using > > Notepad or somesuch, because it is replete with carriage returns (^M) > > The command dos2unix is what you want, and should be present on most > distributions. No fuss. No muss. There are also unix2dos and mac2unix. Now, that's hardly ubergeek...I didn't even have to use Vim ;-) Thank you very much! -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "The point is, you shouldn't eat things that feel pain." *BONK!* "Ow!" "Okay, we won't eat you!" --hippie & Bender -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 20 05:24:27 2007 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 00:24:27 -0500 Subject: Linux kernel 2.6.19 ATA drive support boobytrap In-Reply-To: <20070219165708.GF7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070218062515.GA9071@waltdnes.org> <45D930E0.4060308@telly.org> <20070219165708.GF7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070220052427.GA23978@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Mon, Feb 19, 2007 at 11:57:08AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Advantages for the libata interface is [ ... ] > [ ... ] and the fact all disks will be /dev/sd* devices > no matter what controller they connect to. Linux no longer will support Hard Disks (/dev/hd*), just Soft Disks (/dev/sd*). (That's a joke, I'll even provide the smiley to prove it. :-) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 20 04:09:50 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 23:09:50 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Job Postings In-Reply-To: References: <200702181300.41945.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45DA2E3E.17617.35E536F@sciguy.vex.net> On 18 Feb 2007 at 23:04, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 2/18/07, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > There would be no job postings if this society functioned in a different way. > > Just so. In many societies, it is vanishingly rare for such things to > take place in anything resembling a public fashion. Particularly for > quasi-government positions like the ones Paul pointed out... I have no idea what you are talking about or where you are going with this. I guess if we only hired our relatives or people we knew and did nothing else, then there would be no job postings. Or if we had a command economy and required the entire adult population to be employed by law, there would also be no need for postings. Or do I have the right idea? Did I break any rules by posting the job opening? Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 20 05:15:26 2007 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 00:15:26 -0500 Subject: a convert to Seaside In-Reply-To: <20070219173300.GA8421-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070219173300.GA8421@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: William Park wrote: > Can someone give short tutorial on Smalltalk syntax? The documentation link for the main Squeak Smalltalk site is: http://www.squeak.org/Documentation/ That's where I found the two links below. (1) You might find what you're asking for in the "Quick Reference" link at: http://www.mucow.com/squeak-qref.html#Syntax (2) There's lots of example code snippets at the "Terse guide to Squeak" link at: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/5699 You asked for the "syntax", but IMHO what you really want are the videos. There a Squeak videos too, but I happen to know this link: http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/blog/blogView?searchCategory=screencast which is done by the product manager for Cincom Smalltalk. It's a commercial product, and the direct descendent of the original Xerox PARC work. You'll want to look at the earlier videos where he goes through the basic stuff. BTW, they have a non-commercial use version which you can download and use indefinitely (unless you go commercial). So, don't let the "strange" appearance of Squeak put you off from trying Smalltalk; you can try Cincom Smalltalk for free, and have a more familiar looking set of windows. > No GUI please! That would miss 90% of the point, but no problem, you can work "headless" if you want. No way to explain it other than for you to watch the videos or "play" with Smalltalk for about an hour or two with a Smalltalker guiding you. Maybe you'll get to that "Aha!" moment, maybe you won't. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 20 05:58:35 2007 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 00:58:35 -0500 Subject: a convert to Seaside In-Reply-To: <200702181530.27183.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200702181530.27183.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > I've looked at Smalltalk and really wanted to like it because I have > great respect for its creator but I couldn't get past the weirdness > of the environment. IMHO, it's a matter of what you first encountered that determines what feels wierd. Consider someone who has only ever worked in the MS Windows GUI. Would a DOS prompt or UNIX shell prompt feel "wierd" to the GUI-only person. Command-line vs. GUI - there are arguments for both sides. People get conditioned to think the other is wierd. > I care about deployment issues so I'm not > enthusiastic about deploying something on a server that requires VNC, > or some such thing, in order to manage it. You don't have to use VNC to manage it. You can run it completely "headless", then it'll be just like any other daemon process. The ability to hook up a VNC interface is a huge advantage over something like a remote debugger port. You'll be able to access the entire running process in the exact same manner you had when you were developing the code. > I can (and do) use vim, Kate, or > whatever text editor is at hand. I can use tools like grep, diff, > Subversion on Python source. With Smalltalk, I can't leverage any of > those familiar tools. I would need to find replacements for and > relearn, well, just about everything. It is not obvious that effort > would be worthwhile. That's a common reaction, and understandable. Lots of newcomers are at a loss without their familiar file manipulation tools. But, in a Smalltalk image you don't manipulate your objects indirectly through files - you manipulate them directly, using the GUI/IDE that is inseparable from what is the Smalltalk experience. People eventually adjust, likely because the benefits are worth the change in habits. BTW, very occasionally I've exported the Smalltalk source code to a file, and used VI to do some gross edits (e.g. rename prefixes) - but most of the time, the Smalltalk tools are the easier way. > Perhaps there is some > magic moment where the supposed advantages of Smalltalk becomes real > and that I haven't encountered that moment yet. That's the prevaling thinking. I wouldn't know, since I encountered Smalltalk before I wrote a lot of code in C/Pascal-like languages (so I was never trapped into a narrow mindset that a computer programming language and environment had to consist of file editing and compiling). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 20 06:21:10 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 01:21:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: (Fwd) Job Postings In-Reply-To: <45DA2E3E.17617.35E536F-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <200702181300.41945.softquake@gmail.com> <45DA2E3E.17617.35E536F@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Paul King wrote: > I have no idea what you are talking about or where you are going with > this. I guess if we only hired our relatives or people we knew and did > nothing else, then there would be no job postings. Or if we had a > command economy and required the entire adult population to be employed > by law, there would also be no need for postings. Or do I have the right > idea? We could simply have everyone under the indirect control of the monarch in a pure feudal structure. If you look at it for most of human history most people weren't "employed" as we would recognise the term today. Of course most of them were far worse off than we are today, what with the rule of law and all that. > Did I break any rules by posting the job opening? Nah. I just felt Zbigniew was lamenting the state of the world. It's in quite a state after all. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 20 12:26:17 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 07:26:17 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Job Postings In-Reply-To: <20070219154229.GM91169-bEteefDXIgtmcu3hnIyYJQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45D8490A.8494.585EFC9@sciguy.vex.net> <20070219154229.GM91169@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: <45DAE8E9.90408@rogers.com> Steve Harvey wrote: > On Sun, Feb 18, 2007 at 12:39:38PM -0500, Paul King wrote: > >> I am forwarding this job posting to anyone interested. This is a >> programmer/analyst position with the Ontario College of Teachers. ... >> ------- Forwarded message follows ------- >> >>> From: hr-a7/XJQx/cRc at public.gmane.org >>> >>> Posting 07-07 >>> Programmer Analyst >>> Information Technology Unit, Executive Department >>> >>> >>> Education, Skills, and Experience: >>> College diploma or university degree in the field of computer >>> science, information systems, or software engineering, and three >>> to five years work experience in the field >>> > > Why did they specify an upper limit on years of experience? Should I > take it as a filter to remove folks who only have legacy skills, or is > evidence of a the re-emergence of a social fad that I need to be > concerned about? > Perhaps they want someone "junior" to pay them less. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 20 12:37:17 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:37:17 +0300 Subject: Rackable monitor and keyboard Message-ID: Hi, I am shopping for a rack console and from the look of it, its not that easy to get the pertinent details. For example most specs sheet don't tell, for example the maximum ports the monitor can handle, OS compatibility etc. Is it necessary to worry about or are these details determined by the KVM switch? If anyone here has done this shopping, what would one recommend - i.e the best deal. Thanks in advance William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 20 15:26:23 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 10:26:23 -0500 Subject: Rackable monitor and keyboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070220152623.GG7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 20, 2007 at 03:37:17PM +0300, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > I am shopping for a rack console and from the look of it, its not that > easy to get the pertinent details. For example most specs sheet don't tell, > for example the maximum ports the monitor can handle, OS compatibility etc. > Is it necessary to worry about or are these details determined by the KVM > switch? If anyone here has done this shopping, what would one recommend - > i.e the best deal. Well my experience has shown that some units do a terrible job emulating a ps/2 mouse, which unfortunately an awful lot of units still think is the correct way to run a mouse. Really what you want is USB for the mouse since it is supposed to be hotplugable and the systems don't mind a usb mouse appearing and disappearing. Something that supposed DVI might be starting to be relevant with the way monitors are going. Of course it should preferably do both analog and digital on DVI so that it works with everything, although if you have a digital only monitor then the systems better all do that of course. Not sure if servers have started having DVI yet. Some units support remote access via ethernet or such, which I guess is handy for some people (never tried such a thing myself), and some allow multiple units to be linked so that the keyboard shortcuts pass through multiple units as if they were all one large KVM. For compatibility, the only issue I have ever seen is with the ps/2 mouse port. I guess the choice of keys for the keyboard shortcuts could be an issue on some, but they usually offer a few choices so you can pick something that doesn't interfere with keys you need. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 20 17:21:14 2007 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 12:21:14 -0500 Subject: Remove carriage returns in a text file In-Reply-To: <20070219210404.6bc26128-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20070219210404.6bc26128@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <45DB2E0A.9040406@yahoo.ca> JoeHill wrote: [ ...] > However, when I open the file in Vim, the carriage returns do not appear. Also, > what I know of how to use Vim would not fill the inside of a Barbie Matchbook > (is there such a thing?) ;-) Well, I don't consider myself an ubergeek, (god I dislike that term) but in vim; 'gqap' should format according to whatever you've set your vim to use as word wrap. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From skrishnan-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 21 04:45:33 2007 From: skrishnan-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (S. Krishnan) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 23:45:33 -0500 Subject: Remove carriage returns in a text file In-Reply-To: <20070219210404.6bc26128-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20070219210404.6bc26128@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <1172033133.2120.3.camel@ambipapa> On Mon, 2007-02-19 at 21:04 -0500, JoeHill wrote: > I have a text file that was apparently saved on a Windows box using Notepad or > somesuch, because it is replete with carriage returns (^M), which only appear > when I open the file with Nano. Pipe it through tr(1) invoked as something like tr -d '\015', which will delete the CRs. If you want to convert the carriage returns to line feeds you can try tr '\015' '\012'. HTH. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 21 10:17:24 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 13:17:24 +0300 Subject: Rackable monitor and keyboard In-Reply-To: <20070220152623.GG7583-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070220152623.GG7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Hi Thanks for your advice Sorensen William On 20/02/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 20, 2007 at 03:37:17PM +0300, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > > I am shopping for a rack console and from the look of it, its not that > > easy to get the pertinent details. For example most specs sheet don't > tell, > > for example the maximum ports the monitor can handle, OS compatibility > etc. > > Is it necessary to worry about or are these details determined by the > KVM > > switch? If anyone here has done this shopping, what would one recommend > - > > i.e the best deal. > > Well my experience has shown that some units do a terrible job emulating > a ps/2 mouse, which unfortunately an awful lot of units still think is > the correct way to run a mouse. Really what you want is USB for the > mouse since it is supposed to be hotplugable and the systems don't mind > a usb mouse appearing and disappearing. Something that supposed DVI > might be starting to be relevant with the way monitors are going. Of > course it should preferably do both analog and digital on DVI so that it > works with everything, although if you have a digital only monitor then > the systems better all do that of course. Not sure if servers have > started having DVI yet. Some units support remote access via ethernet > or such, which I guess is handy for some people (never tried such a > thing myself), and some allow multiple units to be linked so that the > keyboard shortcuts pass through multiple units as if they were all one > large KVM. For compatibility, the only issue I have ever seen is with > the ps/2 mouse port. I guess the choice of keys for the keyboard > shortcuts could be an issue on some, but they usually offer a few > choices so you can pick something that doesn't interfere with keys you > need. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 21 12:44:15 2007 From: interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Interlug Lists) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 07:44:15 -0500 Subject: event at linuxcaffe; OpenStreetMap weekend In-Reply-To: References: <20070215115327.GC9508@localhost> <45D4B6CD.4090309@ve3syb.ca> <7ac602420702151202p2521cct18ceb71ac13b0c46@mail.gmail.com> <408ae1640702151409ndf2e602ib2606c087b4543d6@mail.gmail.com> <45D87ECD.2000609@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <408ae1640702210444x3eeb47e8va0c8b3617a210d77@mail.gmail.com> We had a small and enthusiastic group for the mapping weekend. Who knew that February would be cold? That didn't stop all of our intrepid mappers though. One new mapper even braved the minus-teens weather and snow on the ground to map a couple of parks on foot. See an animation of our progress during the weekend. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Toronto_Mapping_Weekend -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 21 13:05:02 2007 From: interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Interlug Lists) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 08:05:02 -0500 Subject: now OT: Re:PCB tools for Linux (was Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now?) In-Reply-To: <1171396408.6020.15.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <20070208182203.381eafbd@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45CBB86B.9070802@yahoo.ca> <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <45D0BD4D.3070708@ve3syb.ca> <1171396408.6020.15.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <408ae1640702210505h604a4702xfd70a88a93a50ea5@mail.gmail.com> On 2/13/07, tleslie wrote: > > Speaking of PCB, > what is the finest pin pitch (or one can list pacakge) > that one has been able to sucessfully place and solder on a PCB > without resorting to a automated expensive sol'n but rather > a tech that is hobbyist based, i.e. soldering iron, oven, etc? I've done SOIC with a hand-held iron. That's 0.05" pitch. Much more than one chip per board makes it trickier; the previous chip seems to block where the soldering iron needs to go for the next chip. I know one can ship this stuff out pretty economically but I am > intetrested in a lot of home tooling around with many pcb's, > so i am thinking of getting a home milling machine (modified roland) > that can do .01" traces and spaces, and assuming it does a good job, > then placement and soldering is my only worry. 0.01" traces and spaces are fun, but you'll want solder mask. Really. The combination of hand soldering small pitch devices and lack of solder mask is an unhappy recipe. With a home made board you'll have more trouble with registration between sides and through hole connections than minimum trace width. Any real life experiences? mail me off list if like, I am interested in > anyone experiences. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 21 14:00:19 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 09:00:19 -0500 Subject: now OT: Re:PCB tools for Linux (was Whenceforth the Ubuntu fanboyz now?) In-Reply-To: <408ae1640702210505h604a4702xfd70a88a93a50ea5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <45CB9AB7.6060700@primus.ca> <45CBA2AE.6030207@yahoo.ca> <20070208182203.381eafbd@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <45CBB86B.9070802@yahoo.ca> <50224.207.188.67.188.1170983681.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <45D0BD4D.3070708@ve3syb.ca> <1171396408.6020.15.camel@stan64.site> <408ae1640702210505h604a4702xfd70a88a93a50ea5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45DC5073.40609@rogers.com> Interlug Lists wrote: > On 2/13/07, *tleslie* > wrote: > > Speaking of PCB, > what is the finest pin pitch (or one can list pacakge) > that one has been able to sucessfully place and solder on a PCB > without resorting to a automated expensive sol'n but rather > a tech that is hobbyist based, i.e. soldering iron, oven, etc? > > > I've done SOIC with a hand-held iron. That's 0.05" pitch. Much more > than one chip per board makes it trickier; the previous chip seems to > block where the soldering iron needs to go for the next chip. I have done those with over 100 pins and several others chips and other devices on the board. Usually not a problem if you have a bit of experience. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 21 13:49:46 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 08:49:46 -0500 Subject: Remove carriage returns in a text file In-Reply-To: <1172033133.2120.3.camel@ambipapa> References: <20070219210404.6bc26128@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <1172033133.2120.3.camel@ambipapa> Message-ID: <20070221134946.GA22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 20, 2007 at 11:45:33PM -0500, S. Krishnan wrote: > Pipe it through tr(1) invoked as something like tr -d '\015', which will > delete the CRs. If you want to convert the carriage returns to line > feeds you can try tr '\015' '\012'. Unless you have old mac text files, I doubt you will need the CR -> LF conversion. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 21 20:36:05 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:36:05 -0500 Subject: Now THIS is advocacy! Message-ID: <45DCAD35.7030804@telly.org> Hey all, Have a look at http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/hardware/soa/Dell_users_demand_more_Linux_options/0,130061702,339273725,00.htm What lessons are there to be learned locally? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rrod-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 21 20:52:46 2007 From: rrod-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (R.R.) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:52:46 -0500 Subject: Now THIS is advocacy! In-Reply-To: <45DCAD35.7030804-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45DCAD35.7030804@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070221205251.4C52C30762@rock.ss.org> That Dell should start listening to its customers? - Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Evan Leibovitch Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:36 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Now THIS is advocacy! Hey all, Have a look at http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/hardware/soa/Dell_users_demand_more_Linux_optio ns/0,130061702,339273725,00.htm What lessons are there to be learned locally? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 21 20:54:57 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 20:54:57 +0000 Subject: Now THIS is advocacy! In-Reply-To: <45DCAD35.7030804-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45DCAD35.7030804@telly.org> Message-ID: On 2/21/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/hardware/soa/Dell_users_demand_more_Linux_options/0,130061702,339273725,00.htm > > What lessons are there to be learned locally? We stopped buying Dells when we discovered that the "cheapest components of the week" extended to $15K *servers* being compromised by this principle... I'd much rather buy a "beige box" than a Dell... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 21 20:49:07 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:49:07 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Job Postings In-Reply-To: References: <45D8490A.8494.585EFC9@sciguy.vex.net> <20070219154229.GM91169@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: <20070221204907.GB22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 19, 2007 at 02:28:33PM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote: > I didn't read that as an upper limit .. rather I read it as 'at least three > to five years work experience ..', something that I haven't worried in quite > a while. ;) Unless '3 to 5 years' is a unit, and they want at least that unit, then it should simply be 'at least 3 years'. Maybe some people think that there are '1 to 2 years', '3 to 5' years' and lots of years' as experience and they want one of the last two. :) Or maybe HR people or whoever writes these things just don't know how to express themselves correctly. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 21 21:43:28 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 16:43:28 -0500 Subject: Detecting increased RAM in Debian Sarge Message-ID: <45DCBD00.7060705@pppoe.ca> Hi I have a dualboot desktop (Windows XP/Debian Sarge). The motherboard is an Asus K8N with 3 memory slots. I had two 512 memory chips in the first 2 slots. I added a 1G memory chip to the 3rd slot this morning. All chips are Kingston PC3200. The BIOS detects 2 G RAM. Windows XP detects 2 G RAM. Knoppix 5.1.1 detects 2 G RAM. free, top, dmesg and /proc/meminfo on Knoppix displays 2 G RAM. But free, top, dmesg and /proc/meminfo on Sarge still displays 1 G RAM. I switched the 1 G chip to the first slot and the two 512 M chips to the second and third slots. Same results. Bios, XP and Knoppix displays 2 G RAM while Sarge displays 1 G RAM. How do I make my system detect all 2 G RAM? Thanks in advance. Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 21 21:58:21 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 16:58:21 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Job Postings In-Reply-To: <20070221204907.GB22465-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <45D8490A.8494.585EFC9@sciguy.vex.net> <20070219154229.GM91169@shell.vex.net> <20070221204907.GB22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45DCC07D.4090004@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Feb 19, 2007 at 02:28:33PM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote: > >> I didn't read that as an upper limit .. rather I read it as 'at least three >> to five years work experience ..', something that I haven't worried in quite >> a while. ;) >> > > Unless '3 to 5 years' is a unit, and they want at least that unit, then > it should simply be 'at least 3 years'. Maybe some people think that > there are '1 to 2 years', '3 to 5' years' and lots of years' as > experience and they want one of the last two. :) Or maybe HR people or > whoever writes these things just don't know how to express themselves > correctly. > > One ad I saw a few years back went something like "Recent grad with 5 years experience"! Then there are those who want more years experience than the technology has been around. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 21 22:12:58 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 17:12:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Which version of Vista to use Message-ID: <50035.207.188.66.193.1172095978.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> This appeared in the RASC (Royal Astronomy Society of Canada) newsgroup: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For those wondering which one of the versions of Vista to purchase, this may help: http://www.joyoftech.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/915.html Dave Roles _______________________________________________ rascals-ETbvJ2rUIr4Zq07fGvhYvA at public.gmane.org --- http://crux.stmarys.ca/mm21/listinfo/rascals -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 21 22:29:13 2007 From: sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Steve Harvey) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 17:29:13 -0500 Subject: Detecting increased RAM in Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <45DCBD00.7060705-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <45DCBD00.7060705@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <20070221222913.GN91169@shell.vex.net> On Wed, Feb 21, 2007 at 04:43:28PM -0500, Meng Cheah wrote: > free, top, dmesg and /proc/meminfo on Knoppix displays 2 G RAM. > But free, top, dmesg and /proc/meminfo on Sarge still displays 1 G RAM. > How do I make my system detect all 2 G RAM? > The kernel that you are running for Sarge probably was built with CONFIG_NOHIGHMEM=y . Assuming that you are running 2.6 kernels, you can easily check with: $ zcat /proc/config.gz | grep HIGHMEM If you want to rebuild your kernel, enabling High Memory Support can be done with one of the config tools under the Processor type and features section. You will want CONFIG_HIGHMEM=y and CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G=y with any of the other HIGHMEM-related items commented out. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 21 22:39:13 2007 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 17:39:13 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Job Postings In-Reply-To: <45DAE8E9.90408-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <45D8490A.8494.585EFC9@sciguy.vex.net> <20070219154229.GM91169@shell.vex.net> <45DAE8E9.90408@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070221223913.GA23302@wp.magstar.net> On Tue, Feb 20, 2007 at 07:26:17AM -0500, James Knott wrote: > Perhaps they want someone "junior" to pay them less. When they say "5 years of experience with Windows Vista," they mean exactly that. They want those who worked on Vista inside Microsoft. :-) -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 21 22:42:06 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 17:42:06 -0500 Subject: Now THIS is advocacy! In-Reply-To: References: <45DCAD35.7030804@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070221224206.GC22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 21, 2007 at 08:54:57PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: > We stopped buying Dells when we discovered that the "cheapest > components of the week" extended to $15K *servers* being compromised > by this principle... > > I'd much rather buy a "beige box" than a Dell... I would rather build a black box than buy a Dell. I want to know what the hardware is so I know it is supported. Dell can do whatever they want with their computers and software choices. I won't be buying any of them. Now their LCD monitors on the other hand are nice. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 21 22:43:27 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 17:43:27 -0500 Subject: Detecting increased RAM in Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <45DCBD00.7060705-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <45DCBD00.7060705@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <20070221224327.GD22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 21, 2007 at 04:43:28PM -0500, Meng Cheah wrote: > I have a dualboot desktop (Windows XP/Debian Sarge). > The motherboard is an Asus K8N with 3 memory slots. > I had two 512 memory chips in the first 2 slots. > I added a 1G memory chip to the 3rd slot this morning. > All chips are Kingston PC3200. > > The BIOS detects 2 G RAM. > Windows XP detects 2 G RAM. > Knoppix 5.1.1 detects 2 G RAM. > > free, top, dmesg and /proc/meminfo on Knoppix displays 2 G RAM. > But free, top, dmesg and /proc/meminfo on Sarge still displays 1 G RAM. > > I switched the 1 G chip to the first slot and the two 512 M chips to the > second and third slots. > Same results. Bios, XP and Knoppix displays 2 G RAM while Sarge displays > 1 G RAM. > > How do I make my system detect all 2 G RAM? Which kernel are you running? Remember it used to be common for linux kernels to only support 900MB ram since anything else required himem support. All newer kernels tend to have support for 4GB (I think most 2.6 kernels in debian do for example, but 2.4 certainly didn't). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 21 22:52:19 2007 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 17:52:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: (Fwd) Job Postings In-Reply-To: <45DCC07D.4090004-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <45DCC07D.4090004@rogers.com> Message-ID: <8263.19538.qm@web60119.mail.yahoo.com> I read the '3 to 5 years' requirement in general as: "we want you to have at least 3 years of experience, but don't expect us to pay more if you have more than 5 years of experience", since there's some assumed "industry standard" pay scale intervals according to position/responsibilities and years of experience. I haven't read in detail this specific job post, in some cases it may be the case (like suggested below) that the technology hasn't been around for longer than 5 years. Fernando http://fduran.com --- James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 19, 2007 at 02:28:33PM -0500, Alex > Beamish wrote: > > > >> I didn't read that as an upper limit .. rather I > read it as 'at least three > >> to five years work experience ..', something that > I haven't worried in quite > >> a while. ;) > >> > > > > Unless '3 to 5 years' is a unit, and they want at > least that unit, then > > it should simply be 'at least 3 years'. Maybe > some people think that > > there are '1 to 2 years', '3 to 5' years' and lots > of years' as > > experience and they want one of the last two. :) > Or maybe HR people or > > whoever writes these things just don't know how to > express themselves > > correctly. > > > > > > One ad I saw a few years back went something like > "Recent grad with 5 > years experience"! Then there are those who want > more years experience > than the technology has been around. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 21 23:01:51 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:01:51 -0500 Subject: Which version of Vista to use In-Reply-To: <50035.207.188.66.193.1172095978.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50035.207.188.66.193.1172095978.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <45DCCF5F.3020404@ve3syb.ca> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > For those wondering which one of the versions of Vista to purchase, this may > help: > > http://www.joyoftech.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/915.html Nice. I thought there were only four choices other than the two OEM version. I didn't know about a couple of those choices. Not being keen on the Vista EULA, when I get around to having the spare cash to replace my old Pentium II box, I will either build it myself or consider a Mac. Either way will allow me to avoid the MS tax. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 21 23:27:40 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:27:40 -0500 Subject: Now THIS is advocacy! In-Reply-To: <20070221224206.GC22465-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <45DCAD35.7030804@telly.org> <20070221224206.GC22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45DCD56C.3000707@telly.org> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I would rather build a black box than buy a Dell. I want to know what > the hardware is so I know it is supported. Dell can do whatever they > want with their computers and software choices. I won't be buying any > of them. Now their LCD monitors on the other hand are nice. > I think you're missing the point. The likelihood that most folks on this list don't use Dell is irrelevant. The purpose of advocacy is not to make the point to folks who already get it. If Dell -- either the #1 or #2 PC maker worldwide -- can be convinced to offer Linux pre-installs as an option to the current Windows tax, that is a IMO great advance. It helps reach people who neither know nor care about the innards of their computers. Most people who care about what go into their PCs are likely already aware of Linux, even if they don't use it. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 22 00:13:41 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:13:41 -0500 Subject: Detecting increased RAM in Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <20070221222913.GN91169-bEteefDXIgtmcu3hnIyYJQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45DCBD00.7060705@pppoe.ca> <20070221222913.GN91169@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: <45DCE035.2020902@pppoe.ca> Steve Harvey wrote: >On Wed, Feb 21, 2007 at 04:43:28PM -0500, Meng Cheah wrote > >>How do I make my system detect all 2 G RAM? >> >> >> > The kernel that you are running for Sarge probably was built with >CONFIG_NOHIGHMEM=y . Assuming that you are running 2.6 kernels, you >can easily check with: > >$ zcat /proc/config.gz | grep HIGHMEM > > /proc/config.gz does not exist in my system. My kernel is 2.6.8-2-386. > If you want to rebuild your kernel, enabling High Memory Support can >be done with one of the config tools under the Processor type and features >section. You will want CONFIG_HIGHMEM=y and CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G=y with >any of the other HIGHMEM-related items commented out. > > Is there any other way to find out? Thanks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 22 00:18:28 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:18:28 -0500 Subject: Detecting increased RAM in Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <20070221224327.GD22465-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <45DCBD00.7060705@pppoe.ca> <20070221224327.GD22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45DCE154.3020808@pppoe.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Wed, Feb 21, 2007 at 04:43:28PM -0500, Meng Cheah wrote: > > >>I have a dualboot desktop (Windows XP/Debian Sarge). >>The motherboard is an Asus K8N with 3 memory slots. >>I had two 512 memory chips in the first 2 slots. >>I added a 1G memory chip to the 3rd slot this morning. >>All chips are Kingston PC3200. >> >>The BIOS detects 2 G RAM. >>Windows XP detects 2 G RAM. >>Knoppix 5.1.1 detects 2 G RAM. >> >>free, top, dmesg and /proc/meminfo on Knoppix displays 2 G RAM. >>But free, top, dmesg and /proc/meminfo on Sarge still displays 1 G RAM. >> >>I switched the 1 G chip to the first slot and the two 512 M chips to the >>second and third slots. >>Same results. Bios, XP and Knoppix displays 2 G RAM while Sarge displays >>1 G RAM. >> >>How do I make my system detect all 2 G RAM? >> >> > >Which kernel are you running? Remember it used to be common for linux >kernels to only support 900MB ram since anything else required himem >support. All newer kernels tend to have support for 4GB (I think most >2.6 kernels in debian do for example, but 2.4 certainly didn't). > > > uname -a Linux 2.6.8-2-386 #1 Tue Aug 16 12:46:35 UTC 2005 i686 GNU/Linux How do I find out? Read the release notes? Any config files or settings to look at? Thanks Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 22 01:50:54 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 20:50:54 -0500 Subject: Detecting increased RAM in Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <20070221224327.GD22465-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <45DCBD00.7060705@pppoe.ca> <20070221224327.GD22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45DCF6FE.5010308@pppoe.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Wed, Feb 21, 2007 at 04:43:28PM -0500, Meng Cheah wrote: > > >>I have a dualboot desktop (Windows XP/Debian Sarge). >>The motherboard is an Asus K8N with 3 memory slots. >>I had two 512 memory chips in the first 2 slots. >>I added a 1G memory chip to the 3rd slot this morning. >>All chips are Kingston PC3200. >> >>The BIOS detects 2 G RAM. >>Windows XP detects 2 G RAM. >>Knoppix 5.1.1 detects 2 G RAM. >> >>free, top, dmesg and /proc/meminfo on Knoppix displays 2 G RAM. >>But free, top, dmesg and /proc/meminfo on Sarge still displays 1 G RAM. >> >>I switched the 1 G chip to the first slot and the two 512 M chips to the >>second and third slots. >>Same results. Bios, XP and Knoppix displays 2 G RAM while Sarge displays >>1 G RAM. >> >>How do I make my system detect all 2 G RAM? >> >> > >Which kernel are you running? Remember it used to be common for linux >kernels to only support 900MB ram since anything else required himem >support. All newer kernels tend to have support for 4GB (I think most >2.6 kernels in debian do for example, but 2.4 certainly didn't). > >- > > Hi Steve and Lennart Thanks for the help. I did some googling and found the section below in the /boot/config-2.6.8-2-386 file. I guess I have to recompile my kernel with CONFIG_NOHIGHMEM=n and CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G=y. # # Firmware Drivers # CONFIG_EDD=m CONFIG_NOHIGHMEM=y # CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G is not set # CONFIG_HIGHMEM64G is not set CONFIG_MATH_EMULATION=y CONFIG_MTRR=y # CONFIG_EFI is not set # CONFIG_REGPARM is not set # -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 22 05:07:12 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 00:07:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: Astronomy migration to Linux Message-ID: <50342.207.188.66.193.1172120832.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> This is an email in the RASC newsgroup regarding migrating to Vista vs using Linux. It would seem that many of the programs used to do amateur astronomy are available for Linux or run under Wine. I think we're going to see a lot of this type of migration, even in specialized fields such as this one. Begin Quote ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I have made the big jump to Linux because of Vista. I ran Vista log enough to know its bad news. I am not going to try and start a debate that is off topic. I merely ask anyone who considers moving to Vista to read the following link first: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html If you wish to talk about this part of my email, please do so by emailing me off list. The main reason I have replied to this email is the question of changing OSes and what astronomy and science software is available. I am now using Fedora Core 6 and have happily made the transition from Win32, almost completely. As with Vista, there are new things to learn and software alternatives to be found. For astronomy and imaging I have found and have been using the following in Linux: Stellarium is a cross platform planetarium program that is very good for demonstrating the sky and how things look. Its a nice free program to have in any OS. http://www.stellarium.org/ Celestia is another great program, does some things no other program does very well, especially for free. http://www.shatters.net/celestia/ Want to get more detailed free star chart program? Again another free and highly regarded program is Carte du Ciel (Skychart). It works in Linux, windows, and Mac OS X. http://www.ap-i.net/skychart/ I really like the Linux only program KStars. It has been mentioned here before. It is very well done and also has live connections to image databases for displaying real images. It is also free, and runs on a free OS. It has a telescope control interface too. http://edu.kde.org/kstars/ For controlling Canon cameras there is a utility called multican. There are many image transfer and image editing programs and Linux and image editing can now be done in 16 bit and with colour space awareness too. The best of these are The Gimp (8 bit only), Cinepaint up to 32 bit, Lightzone handles raw too, UFRaw and Raw Studio for adjusting raw images, all for free. There are two notable pay programs for Linux for image editing; Bibble Pro which costs $125 US and Pixel which costs $38 right now. There are programs worth running in Linux that aren't meant for Linux. They can be run in what is called WINE. WINE stands for Wine Is Not an Emulator. Registax and IRIS both seem to run fine. I also found one other interesting program called xephem, but I can't get it to compile yet due to some dependency missing I think. Any other programs out there anyone would like to share? Les Nagy Hamilton Centre _______________________________________________ rascals-ETbvJ2rUIr4Zq07fGvhYvA at public.gmane.org --- http://crux.stmarys.ca/mm21/listinfo/rascals -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 22 12:21:49 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 07:21:49 -0500 Subject: Astronomy migration to Linux In-Reply-To: <50342.207.188.66.193.1172120832.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50342.207.188.66.193.1172120832.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <45DD8ADD.2080704@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > This is an email in the RASC newsgroup regarding migrating to Vista vs > using Linux. It would seem that many of the programs used to do amateur > astronomy are available for Linux or run under Wine. > > I think we're going to see a lot of this type of migration, even in > specialized fields such as this one. > Of course, Unix was the astronomy OS for many years. I also saw a glimpse of SUSE Linux on a Nova program about an interplanetary probe, a while ago. And, if you watch closely in the movie "Contact", there's a scene where you can see a "Unix party" button stuck on a computer monitor. So, this is just a case of people going back to what has worked well before. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 22 16:25:48 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:25:48 -0500 Subject: Detecting increased RAM in Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <45DCF6FE.5010308-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <45DCBD00.7060705@pppoe.ca> <20070221224327.GD22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45DCF6FE.5010308@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <20070222162548.GE22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 21, 2007 at 08:50:54PM -0500, Meng Cheah wrote: > Thanks for the help. > > I did some googling and found the section below in the > /boot/config-2.6.8-2-386 file. > I guess I have to recompile my kernel with CONFIG_NOHIGHMEM=n and > CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G=y. > > # > # Firmware Drivers > # > CONFIG_EDD=m > CONFIG_NOHIGHMEM=y > # CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G is not set > # CONFIG_HIGHMEM64G is not set > CONFIG_MATH_EMULATION=y > CONFIG_MTRR=y > # CONFIG_EFI is not set > # CONFIG_REGPARM is not set That means you are running a kernel limited to 900MB ram. If you install kernel-image-2.6-686 (which will pull in 2.6.8-3-686) you will get a kernel with support for up to 4G ram. The 386 default kernel is not optimized (it has to run on 386) and is limited to 900MB ram (no 386/486 had that much anyhow and it is slightly faster that way). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 22 16:29:51 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:29:51 -0500 Subject: Now THIS is advocacy! In-Reply-To: <45DCD56C.3000707-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45DCAD35.7030804@telly.org> <20070221224206.GC22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45DCD56C.3000707@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070222162951.GF22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 21, 2007 at 06:27:40PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I think you're missing the point. The likelihood that most folks on this > list don't use Dell is irrelevant. I guess I simply don't believe that people who would even consider doing anything other than what everybody else does would even consider buying a dell (unless company policy dictated to them by someone that ought to know better tells them they must buy dell). > The purpose of advocacy is not to make the point to folks who already > get it. If Dell -- either the #1 or #2 PC maker worldwide -- can be > convinced to offer Linux pre-installs as an option to the current > Windows tax, that is a IMO great advance. It helps reach people who > neither know nor care about the innards of their computers. Most people > who care about what go into their PCs are likely already aware of Linux, > even if they don't use it. And if they don't know, are they going to order a dell with ubuntu? If they do (possibly by accident because it is now an option and it costs less (dell must sell a lot based on costs less given their adds for special buys which are the lowest end scrapings they can put together)) then what is going to happen when they can't install their windows game on it or can't install microsoft office that they pirated of their budy? I just don't think Dell wants that tech support nightmare. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 22 16:33:38 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:33:38 -0500 Subject: Astronomy migration to Linux In-Reply-To: <50342.207.188.66.193.1172120832.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50342.207.188.66.193.1172120832.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20070222163338.GG22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 12:07:12AM -0500, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > This is an email in the RASC newsgroup regarding migrating to Vista vs > using Linux. It would seem that many of the programs used to do amateur > astronomy are available for Linux or run under Wine. > > I think we're going to see a lot of this type of migration, even in > specialized fields such as this one. > > Begin Quote > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I have made the big jump to Linux because of Vista. I ran Vista log > enough to know its bad news. I am not going to try and start a debate > that is off topic. I merely ask anyone who considers moving to Vista to > read the following link first: > http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html > If you wish to talk about this part of my email, please do so by > emailing me off list. > > The main reason I have replied to this email is the question of changing > OSes and what astronomy and science software is available. I am now > using Fedora Core 6 and have happily made the transition from Win32, > almost completely. As with Vista, there are new things to learn and > software alternatives to be found. For astronomy and imaging I have > found and have been using the following in Linux: Why not Debian. If you are breaking free of corporate control you might as well go all the way. And the stable releases really tend to be stable releases with Debian. > Stellarium is a cross platform planetarium program that is very good for > demonstrating the sky and how things look. Its a nice free program to > have in any OS. > http://www.stellarium.org/ > > Celestia is another great program, does some things no other program > does very well, especially for free. > http://www.shatters.net/celestia/ > > Want to get more detailed free star chart program? Again another free > and highly regarded program is Carte du Ciel (Skychart). It works in > Linux, windows, and Mac OS X. > http://www.ap-i.net/skychart/ > > I really like the Linux only program KStars. It has been mentioned here > before. It is very well done and also has live connections to image > databases for displaying real images. It is also free, and runs on a > free OS. It has a telescope control interface too. > http://edu.kde.org/kstars/ kstars seems neat, although I have no clue how accurate or useful it is for someone that is actually in to things with astronomy. > For controlling Canon cameras there is a utility called multican. There > are many image transfer and image editing programs and Linux and image > editing can now be done in 16 bit and with colour space awareness too. > The best of these are The Gimp (8 bit only), Cinepaint up to 32 bit, > Lightzone handles raw too, UFRaw and Raw Studio for adjusting raw > images, all for free. > > There are two notable pay programs for Linux for image editing; Bibble > Pro which costs $125 US and Pixel which costs $38 right now. > > There are programs worth running in Linux that aren't meant for Linux. > They can be run in what is called WINE. WINE stands for Wine Is Not an > Emulator. Registax and IRIS both seem to run fine. > > I also found one other interesting program called xephem, but I can't > get it to compile yet due to some dependency missing I think. > > Any other programs out there anyone would like to share? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 22 16:36:49 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:36:49 -0500 Subject: Which version of Vista to use In-Reply-To: <50035.207.188.66.193.1172095978.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50035.207.188.66.193.1172095978.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20070222163649.GH22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 21, 2007 at 05:12:58PM -0500, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > This appeared in the RASC (Royal Astronomy Society of Canada) newsgroup: > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For those wondering which one of the versions of Vista to purchase, this may > help: > > http://www.joyoftech.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/915.html > > Dave Roles Don't forget all the 'N' versions without mediaplayer for the EU, and of course starter edition for "3rd world" markets. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 22 17:42:15 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 12:42:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: Detecting increased RAM in Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <45DCE035.2020902-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <45DCBD00.7060705@pppoe.ca> <20070221222913.GN91169@shell.vex.net> <45DCE035.2020902@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Feb 2007, Meng Cheah wrote: >> $ zcat /proc/config.gz | grep HIGHMEM >> > /proc/config.gz does not exist in my system. > My kernel is 2.6.8-2-386. Look at /boot/config-2.6.8-2-386. The copy under /proc mentioned above is the copy of the running kernel whereas the copy under /boot is a reference allowing you to recreate a kernel with the same parameters. Unless you've reconfigured and recompiled your kernel and copied the new config back to this file it will be equivalent to what is running. You're running the default install kernel btw. A packaged kernel designed for your architecture may well have HIGHMEM set already. Checkout the packaged kernels available here: aptitude search kernel-image Read up, keep recovery media handy, and maybe talk to us before upgrading the kernel. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 22 20:10:23 2007 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:10:23 -0500 Subject: Help with alsa .asoundrc Message-ID: Hi, I've been trying to find good documentation on .asoundrc file but I haven't found anything real good. I read through the documents on the alsa web site and a few wiki but I'm having a difficult time finding what each option is and how to use them. Most of the documentation are how tos that don't apply to what I'm trying to do. I'm using fc6 and the sound card is sound blaster live 5.1. I have 2 speakers next to my monitor, and 2 speakers in the room connected to an amp. What I want is to have the rear left and right output be the same as the front right and left and be able to contol both rear and front output with the master volume control. I suppose I could use a y-splitter but I'd prefer a software solution. Any tips or link to good documentation would be greatly appreceated. Martin _________________________________________________________________ http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=43.658648~-79.383962&style=r&lvl=15&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=3702663&cid=7ABE80D1746919B4!1329 >From January 26 to February 8, 2007 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 22 21:34:35 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:34:35 -0500 Subject: Help with alsa .asoundrc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070222213435.GI22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 03:10:23PM -0500, Martin Duclos wrote: > Hi, > I've been trying to find good documentation on .asoundrc file but I haven't > found anything real good. I read through the documents on the alsa web site > and a few wiki but I'm having a difficult time finding what each option is > and how to use them. Most of the documentation are how tos that don't apply > to what I'm trying to do. > > I'm using fc6 and the sound card is sound blaster live 5.1. I have 2 > speakers next to my monitor, and 2 speakers in the room connected to an > amp. What I want is to have the rear left and right output be the same as > the front right and left and be able to contol both rear and front output > with the master volume control. I suppose I could use a y-splitter but I'd > prefer a software solution. Any tips or link to good documentation would be > greatly appreceated. This might help: http://alsa.opensrc.org/Playing_stereo_on_surround_sound_setup_%28Howto%29 -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 23 03:37:18 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 22 Feb 2007 22:37:18 -0500 Subject: Now THIS is advocacy! In-Reply-To: <20070222162951.GF22465-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <45DCAD35.7030804@telly.org> <20070221224206.GC22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45DCD56C.3000707@telly.org> <20070222162951.GF22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) writes: > On Wed, Feb 21, 2007 at 06:27:40PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > I think you're missing the point. The likelihood that most folks on this > > list don't use Dell is irrelevant. > > I guess I simply don't believe that people who would even consider doing > anything other than what everybody else does would even consider buying > a dell (unless company policy dictated to them by someone that ought to > know better tells them they must buy dell). I bought a Dell Inspiron notebook a couple of years ago. At the time, it was a good deal and most of the hardware worked well with Linux. Other brands either didn't work as well with Linux or were significantly more expensive. I wouldn't consider a Dell desktop or server. Having said that, I will say that at some point most people get tired of hand-picking hardware for Linux. I know I got tired of it a long time ago. Unfortunately, in my experience, none of the (big) brand names do a decent job of ensuring their hardware works well with Linux. > > The purpose of advocacy is not to make the point to folks who already > > get it. If Dell -- either the #1 or #2 PC maker worldwide -- can be > > convinced to offer Linux pre-installs as an option to the current > > Windows tax, that is a IMO great advance. It helps reach people who > > neither know nor care about the innards of their computers. Most people > > who care about what go into their PCs are likely already aware of Linux, > > even if they don't use it. > > And if they don't know, are they going to order a dell with ubuntu? If > they do (possibly by accident because it is now an option and it costs > less (dell must sell a lot based on costs less given their adds for > special buys which are the lowest end scrapings they can put together)) > then what is going to happen when they can't install their windows game > on it or can't install microsoft office that they pirated of their budy? > > I just don't think Dell wants that tech support nightmare. If they want to sell computers into emerging markets like China, they won't have a choice. -- tim writer starnix care inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 23 04:36:55 2007 From: jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 23:36:55 -0500 Subject: Switch box problem In-Reply-To: <20070222213435.GI22465-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070222213435.GI22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45DE6F67.7030306@totaltravelmarketing.com> Hi List, I just got one of those switch boxes to change from computer to computer, and when I hop from server to another I loose the mouse, keyboard is ok, but how to avoid/fix this problem? The box is a cheap KVM 4 port switch ,model kys-104, box says it does support Linux, so I don't know wher is the problem. Any advice, my mouse if an (gasp) Microsoft intellimouse optical usb, connected to the box using a usb to ps2 convertor, I remember having the same problem with early versions of redhat, I have a suse 10.2 and Centos 4 which I need to switch to from time to time. Any advice would be welcome, thanks Jose -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 23 04:44:00 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 23:44:00 -0500 Subject: Detecting increased RAM in Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: References: <45DCBD00.7060705@pppoe.ca> <20070221222913.GN91169@shell.vex.net> <45DCE035.2020902@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <45DE7110.9030804@pppoe.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: > Look at /boot/config-2.6.8-2-386. The copy under /proc mentioned above > is the copy of the running kernel whereas the copy under /boot is a > reference allowing you to recreate a kernel with the same parameters. > Unless you've reconfigured and recompiled your kernel and copied the > new config back to this file it will be equivalent to what is running. > > You're running the default install kernel btw. A packaged kernel > designed for your architecture may well have HIGHMEM set already. > > Checkout the packaged kernels available here: > > aptitude search kernel-image > > Read up, keep recovery media handy, and maybe talk to us before > upgrading the kernel. > > Cheers, > > Rob > uname -a Linux <> 2.6.8-3-686 #1 Tue Dec 5 21:26:38 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux From /boot/config-2.6.8-3-686 # # Firmware Drivers # CONFIG_EDD=m # CONFIG_NOHIGHMEM is not set CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G=y # CONFIG_HIGHMEM64G is not set CONFIG_HIGHMEM=y Thanks again to all for the help :-) Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 23 04:56:13 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 23:56:13 -0500 Subject: Switch box problem In-Reply-To: <45DE6F67.7030306-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <20070222213435.GI22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45DE6F67.7030306@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420702222056v65154dfscf594303ee9e5b68@mail.gmail.com> I've heard KVMs sometimes have issues replicating/imitating a PS2 mouse. Can you use both keyboard and mouse as USB devices at the same time? Maybe via a USB hub? Just a thought--I don't have a KVM myself. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 23 06:51:41 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 01:51:41 -0500 Subject: Switch box problem In-Reply-To: <45DE6F67.7030306-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <20070222213435.GI22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45DE6F67.7030306@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <1172213501.5044.31.camel@stan64.site> there is a piece of software out there that has an ability on MAC MS and linux to alow you to push a mouse across all the screen from those platforms, and not do it via kvm, however if you needed the mouse say for bios, it wouldnt be to useful, but as long as all the systems to would want to kvm to are running, then this software would do exactly what you want, you mouse would be fixed to one the reliable systems (linux ofcourse) and a client mouse app would run on the other systems talking to the server. I did this with my Igloo Mac and a few linux boxes, it was sweet. If you cant google and find it, i can blow the dust of my igloo and get you the name. -tl On Thu, 2007-02-22 at 23:36 -0500, Jose wrote: > Hi List, > > I just got one of those switch boxes to change from computer to > computer, and when I hop from server to another I loose the mouse, > keyboard is ok, but how to avoid/fix this problem? > > The box is a cheap KVM 4 port switch ,model kys-104, box says it does > support Linux, so I don't know wher is the problem. > > Any advice, my mouse if an (gasp) Microsoft intellimouse optical usb, > connected to the box using a usb to ps2 convertor, I remember having the > same problem with early versions of redhat, I have a suse 10.2 and > Centos 4 which I need to switch to from time to time. > > Any advice would be welcome, thanks > > Jose > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 23 11:32:26 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 06:32:26 -0500 Subject: Now THIS is advocacy! In-Reply-To: References: <45DCAD35.7030804@telly.org> <20070221224206.GC22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45DCD56C.3000707@telly.org> <20070222162951.GF22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990702230332u2bf51fcfv1ee3ad2af7a6466d@mail.gmail.com> On 22 Feb 2007 22:37:18 -0500, Tim Writer wrote: > I wouldn't consider a Dell desktop or server. Having said that, I will say > that at some point most people get tired of hand-picking hardware for > Linux. I know I got tired of it a long time ago. Unfortunately, in my > experience, none of the (big) brand names do a decent job of ensuring their > hardware works well with Linux. I'm thinking mid-term about buying a dell workstation for the office. Now I've got to think twice about that. But the tempting prices and the line of credit does make Dell a good choice for most businesses. And Dell does have great warranty support. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 23 12:26:35 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 07:26:35 -0500 Subject: Switch box problem In-Reply-To: <1172213501.5044.31.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <20070222213435.GI22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45DE6F67.7030306@totaltravelmarketing.com> <1172213501.5044.31.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <45DEDD7B.60702@rogers.com> tleslie wrote: > there is a piece of software out there that has > an ability on MAC MS and linux to alow you to push a mouse across all > the screen from those platforms, and not do it via kvm, > however if you needed the mouse say for bios, it wouldnt be to useful, > but as long as all the systems to would want to kvm to are running, > then this software would do exactly what you want, you mouse would be > fixed to one the reliable systems (linux ofcourse) and a client mouse > app would run on the other systems talking to the server. > I did this with my Igloo Mac and a few linux boxes, it was sweet. > If you cant google and find it, i can blow the dust of my igloo and get > you the name. > > I simply use XDMCP to run remote terminals for my systems. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 23 15:20:46 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 10:20:46 -0500 Subject: Switch box problem In-Reply-To: <45DE6F67.7030306-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <20070222213435.GI22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45DE6F67.7030306@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <20070223152046.GJ22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 11:36:55PM -0500, Jose wrote: > I just got one of those switch boxes to change from computer to > computer, and when I hop from server to another I loose the mouse, > keyboard is ok, but how to avoid/fix this problem? > > The box is a cheap KVM 4 port switch ,model kys-104, box says it does > support Linux, so I don't know wher is the problem. > > Any advice, my mouse if an (gasp) Microsoft intellimouse optical usb, > connected to the box using a usb to ps2 convertor, I remember having the > same problem with early versions of redhat, I have a suse 10.2 and > Centos 4 which I need to switch to from time to time. > > Any advice would be welcome, thanks As I previously mentioned, a lot of KVMs don't do ps/2 mice correctly. You really really want a KVM that uses usb for the mouse instead. It will also in the future become harder to even find mice that allow converting to ps/2 so you might as well get rid of that old crap sooner rather than later. The problem with ps/2 is that there are so many protocols in use and it is by design NOT hot swap. In fact many systems shut down the port if you try and unplug or plug in something with power on and only a complete system reset will bring it back. Now all the different protocols mean that when you switch the kvm has to emulate a ps/2 mouse to the system when the mouse isn't connected, but which protocol should it emulate? What if one system wants just plain ps/2 and another wants intellimouse ps/2 (which has scroll wheel and more buttons and hence a different protocol)? With usb it is hot plug by design so there is nothing to emmulate. Just disconnect and reconnect when you switch and the system will deal with it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 23 15:21:17 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 10:21:17 -0500 Subject: Switch box problem In-Reply-To: <1172213501.5044.31.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <20070222213435.GI22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45DE6F67.7030306@totaltravelmarketing.com> <1172213501.5044.31.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <7ac602420702230721w41f311bch6c2ee2160e82493@mail.gmail.com> > I did this with my Igloo Mac and a few linux boxes, it was sweet. > If you cant google and find it, i can blow the dust of my igloo and get > you the name. I think you're referring to Synergy: http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/ Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 23 15:21:50 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 10:21:50 -0500 Subject: Detecting increased RAM in Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <45DE7110.9030804-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <45DCBD00.7060705@pppoe.ca> <20070221222913.GN91169@shell.vex.net> <45DCE035.2020902@pppoe.ca> <45DE7110.9030804@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <20070223152150.GK22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 11:44:00PM -0500, Meng Cheah wrote: > uname -a > Linux <> 2.6.8-3-686 #1 Tue Dec 5 21:26:38 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux > > From /boot/config-2.6.8-3-686 > # > # Firmware Drivers > # > CONFIG_EDD=m > # CONFIG_NOHIGHMEM is not set > CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G=y > # CONFIG_HIGHMEM64G is not set > CONFIG_HIGHMEM=y > > Thanks again to all for the help :-) So you now have 2GB ram I assume? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 23 15:41:23 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 10:41:23 -0500 Subject: Detecting increased RAM in Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <20070223152150.GK22465-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <45DCBD00.7060705@pppoe.ca> <20070221222913.GN91169@shell.vex.net> <45DCE035.2020902@pppoe.ca> <45DE7110.9030804@pppoe.ca> <20070223152150.GK22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45DF0B23.2000001@pppoe.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >So you now have 2GB ram I assume? > > free total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 2076664 202320 1874344 0 9960 121564 cat /proc/meminfo MemTotal: 2076664 kB MemFree: 1869208 kB Yes :-) and thanks. Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 23 16:25:00 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:25:00 -0500 Subject: Switch box problem In-Reply-To: <7ac602420702230721w41f311bch6c2ee2160e82493-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070222213435.GI22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45DE6F67.7030306@totaltravelmarketing.com> <1172213501.5044.31.camel@stan64.site> <7ac602420702230721w41f311bch6c2ee2160e82493@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1172247900.5044.40.camel@stan64.site> thats it! thanks, -tl On Fri, 2007-02-23 at 10:21 -0500, Ian Petersen wrote: > > I did this with my Igloo Mac and a few linux boxes, it was sweet. > > If you cant google and find it, i can blow the dust of my igloo and get > > you the name. > > I think you're referring to Synergy: http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/ > > Ian > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 23 17:30:37 2007 From: jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 12:30:37 -0500 Subject: Switch box problem In-Reply-To: <1172247900.5044.40.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <20070222213435.GI22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45DE6F67.7030306@totaltravelmarketing.com> <1172213501.5044.31.camel@stan64.site> <7ac602420702230721w41f311bch6c2ee2160e82493@mail.gmail.com> <1172247900.5044.40.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <45DF24BD.8060903@totaltravelmarketing.com> tleslie wrote: > thats it! thanks, > > -tl > > On Fri, 2007-02-23 at 10:21 -0500, Ian Petersen wrote: > >>> I did this with my Igloo Mac and a few linux boxes, it was sweet. >>> If you cant google and find it, i can blow the dust of my igloo and get >>> you the name. >>> >> I think you're referring to Synergy: http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/ >> >> Ian >> >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > Hi List In my case, I do need a hardware switch, as I have my servers loaded with dual boot and sometimes I need to swap from one type of OS to another. Thanks for all of the responses, I think I would return the item and get a usb switch instead, or get a Link Sys switch, I heard those are better. J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 23 17:42:02 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 12:42:02 -0500 Subject: Switch box problem In-Reply-To: <45DF24BD.8060903-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <20070222213435.GI22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45DE6F67.7030306@totaltravelmarketing.com> <1172213501.5044.31.camel@stan64.site> <7ac602420702230721w41f311bch6c2ee2160e82493@mail.gmail.com> <1172247900.5044.40.camel@stan64.site> <45DF24BD.8060903@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <1172252522.5044.68.camel@stan64.site> this would still not preclude you from using synergy as regardless of the OS you boot, it can run a synergy client on bootup, and if you dual boot the machine the runs the server, well you can install a server of synergy on all the OS's on that machine as well. but i guess while you are re-booting the server, you'd loose mouse ability to other boxes. also if you are installing o/s's a lot it might become a pain to have to remember to install the synergy. -tl On Fri, 2007-02-23 at 12:30 -0500, Jose wrote: > tleslie wrote: > > thats it! thanks, > > > > -tl > > > > On Fri, 2007-02-23 at 10:21 -0500, Ian Petersen wrote: > > > >>> I did this with my Igloo Mac and a few linux boxes, it was sweet. > >>> If you cant google and find it, i can blow the dust of my igloo and get > >>> you the name. > >>> > >> I think you're referring to Synergy: http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/ > >> > >> Ian > >> > >> > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > > > Hi List > > In my case, I do need a hardware switch, as I have my servers loaded > with dual boot and sometimes I need to swap from one type of OS to another. > > Thanks for all of the responses, I think I would return the item and get > a usb switch instead, or get a Link Sys switch, I heard those are better. > > J > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 23 23:29:12 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:29:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: Now THIS is advocacy! In-Reply-To: References: <45DCAD35.7030804@telly.org> <20070221224206.GC22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45DCD56C.3000707@telly.org> <20070222162951.GF22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Tim Writer | lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) writes: | > I guess I simply don't believe that people who would even consider doing | > anything other than what everybody else does would even consider buying | > a dell (unless company policy dictated to them by someone that ought to | > know better tells them they must buy dell). | | I bought a Dell Inspiron notebook a couple of years ago. At the time, it | was a good deal and most of the hardware worked well with Linux. Other | brands either didn't work as well with Linux or were significantly more | expensive. I second that. We bought an Inspiron 6000 (Centrino) notebook for my daughter a year and a half ago. Much more linux-friendly than my HP Pavilion zv5000z notebook (AMD 64). That's because I learned that Intel notebook chips are the best for Linux: open drivers for most of the bits. She has never once booted WindowsXP on it. So she's never had to click through that horrible license. | I wouldn't consider a Dell desktop or server. Having said that, I will say | that at some point most people get tired of hand-picking hardware for | Linux. I know I got tired of it a long time ago. Unfortunately, in my | experience, none of the (big) brand names do a decent job of ensuring their | hardware works well with Linux. Hear hear! I did buy three Dell desktops last year. They were cheap off-lease small form factor machines. Since they are based on Intel chipsets, they have decent Linux support. How cheap? $-10.00 each -- yes negative, but I had to pay $50 shipping, for a total of $20. I've generally picked AMD CPUs for the last many years. But they tend to come with more Linux problems (i.e. ATI (AMD), nVidia, or VIA chipsets). This kind of crap sends many wise folks to Macs. If Dell sold consumer desktops and notebooks that came with Linux, I might buy them. I would probably not use their choice of Linux, but it would mean that they had managed to get Linux to support everything. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 24 01:47:39 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 20:47:39 -0500 Subject: Now THIS is advocacy! In-Reply-To: References: <45DCAD35.7030804@telly.org> <20070221224206.GC22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45DCD56C.3000707@telly.org> <20070222162951.GF22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990702231747u7b283e55ida04c9d2c9ccbbbb@mail.gmail.com> On 2/23/07, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > If Dell sold consumer desktops and notebooks that came with Linux, I > might buy them. I would probably not use their choice of Linux, but > it would mean that they had managed to get Linux to support > everything. Same here. I actually had a conversation earlier today at work that went something like this: Can I throw this out (holds up a bulky case exhaust thing) me> Uh, no .. if I upgrade my computer, I might need that for airflow. But what if we just buy new computers.. a couple of powerhouse Dells with 32" widescreen LCDs me> (pauses in thought with a mixed look of confusion, excitement and horror) We ended up keeping it. =) I built my current setup. The way this thread is going, maybe I ought to think about building its future replacement too. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 24 03:54:50 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 22:54:50 -0500 Subject: Big Debian Linux Payday For HP Message-ID: <200702232254.50360.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> HP sold $25milion worth of systems last year where Debian support was specifically requested. Not bad ... http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3661481 -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 24 15:14:29 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 10:14:29 -0500 Subject: [TLUG-BOARD]: Wiki Updates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have solicited updates to the wiki in prep for it360 and have seen nothing so far. Am I wasting my time on this? On 2/14/07, Christopher Browne wrote: > At the 2006-01-22 board meeting, we discussed the notion of setting up > a central "Resources" page whose URL we would put onto business cards > for distribution at the IT360 conference. That represents perhaps the > cheapest possible *useful* giveaway for us to have there. > > The notion was that we should pick some set of topics that are likely > to be of some general interest that we have some local expertise on. > For each topic, we should have pointers both to traditional "global" > resources (e.g. - to http://samba.org/, for SAMBA) as well as to local > resources that might be able to render local assistance. > > It appears that there is a relevant "Resources" page on the Wiki which > I can't edit. In lieu of that, I have added in an itemized list at > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Site_administration listing a set of items that > Colin and I came up with. > > Each item should have its own Wiki page consisting of pointers to > global resources (HOWTOs and such) as well as to any local support > sources. > > I have "filled in the blanks" for a number of them, but for this to > become a resource worthy of publishing cards with the URL, others need > to fill in the blanks and generally make it a richer set of > information. > > There are, in effect, four things to be done to improve things: > > 1. Fill in the blanks. For various topics (Linux on USB key, Custom > Knoppix, Linux Networking, Wireless Networking on LInux), there need > to be Wiki pages set up with useful material. > > 2. Interlink things. > > I added a page on PostgreSQL, and then did a search for various places > where PostgreSQL was referenced, and added links to the PG page in > those various places. > > I did the same (somewhat; not done) for references to the Linux kernel > > 3. Tighten things up. > > When I was looking at the Linux kernel linkages, I discovered that > there was info about the Linux kernel scattered in various places. To > some degree, I drew it to one main place. > > There is material already on Networking that could be drawn into a > single central Wiki page, which would doubtless make it more useful. > > 4. Finally, having a central "link farm" page of sorts > > Having one page that quickly links to many topics of interest gives us > a single URL that we can give out to people. There is a "Resources" > page; it's somewhat locked against editing, so someone administrative > on the Wiki needs to help out with that piece. > > If a dozen people each add / improve a page, and add some links within > the wiki, and draw material from various places into the Page For A > Topic, I think this wiki can be a resource of some significant value > worthy of distributing cards with the URL on it. > > If I'm the only one that does anything, it won't be worthy of that... > > > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." > (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. http://tlug.ss.org > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: email > -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 24 15:44:09 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 10:44:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: Electronic Name Badges. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <246785.62615.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Well, I am poking around at a revised BASIC Stamp based name badge (why not, I already the Stamp on hand, for someone who doesn't have a BASIC Stamp on hand there appear to be other more cost effective solutions). Problem, I have aquired some 16 character x 2 line LCD display modules, but no data sheets. The modules have on them the following markings: DM080Z GEB-2294V-0 My google searches have only turned up others asking the same question, "what are the pin-outs for this module?". Things that I have run across include this: http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/resources.htm It seems there is a fairly standard pin-out sequence for LCD modules, with 14 or 16 pins (the 16 pin modules use the extra 2 pins to power the LCD back-light). A problem as my module has 15 pins. Other stuff, the module has a Hitachi HD44780S chip on it that I gather is the basis for many "smart" LCD modules, so I assume the commands to control this module are fairly typical, but... Anyone know what the pin-outs are for this modules, or does anyone have any suggestions as to how I should procceed? Thanks. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 24 18:27:23 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 13:27:23 -0500 Subject: [TLUG-BOARD]: Wiki Updates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e55af990702241027m69215296q27741df908a2defe@mail.gmail.com> On 2/24/07, Christopher Browne wrote: > I have solicited updates to the wiki in prep for it360 and have seen > nothing so far. Am I wasting my time on this? I've unlocked this page: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Resources It was locked to prevent spamming. If spam becomes a problem again, then it should be prevented using the bad behavior extension. I'd install it myself, but I don't have ssh access to do so. I recommend actually going ahead and doing whatever works, and then interested people will drop in and revise things. This is how wikis flourish. If things are kept toronto-centric or the most popular topics are linked-to, then it could be of use. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 24 18:51:00 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 13:51:00 -0500 Subject: Electronic Name Badges. In-Reply-To: <246785.62615.qm-p6KvMhi7PWKB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <246785.62615.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45E08914.8080000@ve3syb.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > Problem, I have aquired some 16 character x 2 line LCD > display modules, but no data sheets. The modules have > on them the following markings: [snip] > It seems there is a fairly standard pin-out sequence > for LCD modules, with 14 or 16 pins (the 16 pin > modules use the extra 2 pins to power the LCD > back-light). A problem as my module has 15 pins. Other > stuff, the module has a Hitachi HD44780S chip on it > that I gather is the basis for many "smart" LCD > modules, so I assume the commands to control this > module are fairly typical, but... > > Anyone know what the pin-outs are for this modules, or > does anyone have any suggestions as to how I should > procceed? It is pretty common to find a 44780 used as the controller for character based LCD's. You can find the "How to control a HD44780-based Character LCD" at http://home.iae.nl/users/pouweha/lcd/lcd.shtml which includes some information about standard pinouts. If your device has 15 pins, its possible that it just using the LCD backlight positions to provide a key for the cable that will connect to the board. Variations on some LCD's are the 14/16 lines in a row or as a 7x2/8x2 block. Just wish I could remember where my box of 15 or so 16x2 (or are they 20x2?) LCD modules are located. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 25 11:19:16 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:19:16 +0300 Subject: Automated auditing Message-ID: Hi all, I wonder if there is anybody here who have experience with automated auditing. I am planning to implement auditing on one of my box. I have googled around, but most articles discuss how to do it, but I am currently interested and what information would be important to collect without burying myself with data. Lots of data are good after a problem, but I think it may not be a good idea if one want to be proactive. Thanks William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 25 16:16:11 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 11:16:11 -0500 Subject: Linux in Russia In-Reply-To: <246785.62615.qm-p6KvMhi7PWKB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <246785.62615.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200702251116.11808.softquake@gmail.com> Its quiet here. A friend i correspond with send me this. Some of you possibly can read in Russian (wander myself if this will pass through the listserver properly). I am not Russian, I am Polish, but enjoy a lot knowing that language. The text is naive, she is not a programmer but she knows that I live of Linux. It looks like that there is a campain there by the state to promote Linux. That's a something. If state there decides to use Linux, they will use it en masse. ?????? ?? TV ???????? ?? Linux, ? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? ???????????? ??????? ???? ????? ?? ???????, ?? ?????? ?????? ???????? ??? ??? ??????? ? ????? ????? ??????????? ????? Windous. ? ??? ??? ? ?????? ????????????? ??????? ????? ? ??? ??????????? ????? ??????. ? ? ???????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????????????? ?????????? ?????????? Linux ? ??? ?????? ? 2011 ???? ????? ????? ????????? ?????????? ?? ??? ???????????? ??????? ? ??? ?? ???????????? ??????? ????? ???????? ? ???? ???????? ???????? ?????????? ????? ???? ?? 30% ??? ?? ??????? ???????? ? Windous. ??? ??? ?? ????????? ???? ????? ???????, ??? ? Linux ??????? ??????? zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 25 16:22:52 2007 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 11:22:52 -0500 Subject: Linux in Russia In-Reply-To: <200702251116.11808.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <246785.62615.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200702251116.11808.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b20702250822v3a765031m2ff0791a9b74aad8@mail.gmail.com> I can't read the text here, but I am reminded of a recent ruckus in Russia about using Linux in schools instead of MS. Some headmaster was imprisoned for pirating Windows! Ah, here's a story about it: http://eng.cnews.ru/news/top/indexEn.shtml?2007/02/05/234178 Cheers, Aaron. On 2/25/07, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Its quiet here. > > A friend i correspond with send me this. Some of you possibly can read in > Russian (wander myself if this will pass through the listserver properly). I > am not Russian, I am Polish, but enjoy a lot knowing that language. > > The text is naive, she is not a programmer but she knows that I live of Linux. > It looks like that there is a campain there by the state to promote Linux. > That's a something. If state there decides to use Linux, they will use it en > masse. > > ?????? ?? TV ???????? ? Linux, ? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? ???????????? ??????? ???? > ????? ?? ???????, ?? ?????? ?????? ???????? ??? ??? ??????? ? ????? ????? > ??????????? ????? Windous. ? ??? ??? ? ?????? ????????????? ??????? ????? ? > ??? ??????????? ????? ??????. ? ? ???????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????????????? > ?????????? ?????????? Linux ? ??? ?????? ? 2011 ???? ????? ????? ????????? > ?????????? ?? ??? ???????????? ??????? ? ??? ?? ???????????? ??????? ????? > ???????? ? ???? ???????? ???????? ?????????? ????? ???? ?? 30% ??? ?? ??????? > ???????? ? Windous. ??? ??? ?? ????????? ???? ????? ???????, ??? ? Linux > ??????? ??????? > > zb. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 25 17:32:11 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 12:32:11 -0500 Subject: Mythtv - Archive Message-ID: <200702251232.11240.mervc@eol.ca> Sorry gang, but more help req'd. I have followed the Mythtv Wiki for using the Archive plugin and I think all is well down to the Log Viewer. I assume that it tells the user about the progress of the burn to DVD via the updates that are done each 5 sec's. If it makes a difference, I am using SuSE 10.2 as a frontend doing the recording, the Mythtv server is on another machine. However I think I have a problem since nothing is happening in the log, here are the last incoherent lines [ laboriously copied and entered here correctly?]. Maybe needs a Python programmer? Traceback File '/usr/lib/python2.5/posixpath.py"', line 62, injoin elif path == "or path endswith ('/'): Attribute Error: 'None Type' object has no attribute 'endswith' Any help would be appreciated since my hard drive is filling up with Movies. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 25 17:50:21 2007 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 12:50:21 -0500 Subject: Mythtv - Archive In-Reply-To: <200702251232.11240.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200702251232.11240.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <45E1CC5D.5040801@gmail.com> I am robbing Peter to pay Paul. I am swapping large capacity USB2 disks around. Each with about 100-200 hours of mythtv programs. I think I will try the Mythv-Archive also and burn them off onto DVD. I have used the Mythtv-Archive to process recordings, burn and play them in commercial DVDs in the past. (My current KnoppMyth-server is not a fast computer, so that is why I did not continue to use KnoppMyth-Archive. /teddy Merv Curley wrote: > Sorry gang, but more help req'd. > > I have followed the Mythtv Wiki for using the Archive plugin and I think all > is well down to the Log Viewer. I assume that it tells the user about the > progress of the burn to DVD via the updates that are done each 5 sec's. > > If it makes a difference, I am using SuSE 10.2 as a frontend doing the > recording, the Mythtv server is on another machine. > > However I think I have a problem since nothing is happening in the log, here > are the last incoherent lines [ laboriously copied and entered here > correctly?]. Maybe needs a Python programmer? > > Traceback > File '/usr/lib/python2.5/posixpath.py"', line 62, injoin elif path == "or path > endswith ('/'): > Attribute Error: 'None Type' object has no attribute 'endswith' > > Any help would be appreciated since my hard drive is filling up with Movies. > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From skrishnan-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 25 18:06:16 2007 From: skrishnan-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (S. Krishnan) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 13:06:16 -0500 Subject: Linux in Russia In-Reply-To: <200702251116.11808.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <246785.62615.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200702251116.11808.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1172426776.3225.1.camel@ambipapa> On Sun, 2007-02-25 at 11:16 -0500, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Its quiet here. > > A friend i correspond with send me this. Some of you possibly can read in > Russian (wander myself if this will pass through the listserver properly). I > am not Russian, I am Polish, but enjoy a lot knowing that language. > > The text is naive, she is not a programmer but she knows that I live of Linux. > It looks like that there is a campain there by the state to promote Linux. > That's a something. If state there decides to use Linux, they will use it en > masse. > > ?????? ?? TV ???????? ? Linux, ? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? ???????????? ??????? ???? > ????? ?? ???????, ?? ?????? ?????? ???????? ??? ??? ??????? ? ????? ????? > ??????????? ????? Windous. ? ??? ??? ? ?????? ????????????? ??????? ????? ? > ??? ??????????? ????? ??????. ? ? ???????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????????????? > ?????????? ?????????? Linux ? ??? ?????? ? 2011 ???? ????? ????? ????????? > ?????????? ?? ??? ???????????? ??????? ? ??? ?? ???????????? ??????? ????? > ???????? ? ???? ???????? ???????? ?????????? ????? ???? ?? 30% ??? ?? ??????? > ???????? ? Windous. ??? ??? ?? ????????? ???? ????? ???????, ??? ? Linux > ??????? ??????? > A literal Babelfish translation: now on TV they spoke about Linux, the fact that this operating system is thus far barely developed about, but now many recognize that it cheaper and it has many advantages over Windous. And that it within the framework of national project will be developed very rapidly. But in Germany even now all offices of state are used Linux and that Europe to 2011 will be almost completely converted to this operating system and that those programmers which can work with this system they obtain wages higher by 30% how those which they work with Windous. So that you completely rights when said that in Linux the large future -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 25 19:03:16 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:03:16 -0500 Subject: Linux in Russia In-Reply-To: <1172426776.3225.1.camel@ambipapa> References: <246785.62615.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200702251116.11808.softquake@gmail.com> <1172426776.3225.1.camel@ambipapa> Message-ID: <200702251403.16341.softquake@gmail.com> This is a fairly good translation. I am chatting with her right now and she said again that right now again there is a program there on TV propagating Linux. This must be a sort of state sponsored propaganda. Sumsum corda! zb. On Sunday 25 February 2007 13:06, S. Krishnan wrote: > On Sun, 2007-02-25 at 11:16 -0500, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > Its quiet here. > > > > A friend i correspond with send me this. Some of you possibly can read in > > Russian (wander myself if this will pass through the listserver > > properly). I am not Russian, I am Polish, but enjoy a lot knowing that > > language. > > > > The text is naive, she is not a programmer but she knows that I live of > > Linux. It looks like that there is a campain there by the state to > > promote Linux. That's a something. If state there decides to use Linux, > > they will use it en masse. > > > > ?????? ?? TV ???????? ? Linux, ? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? ???????????? ??????? > > ???? ????? ?? ???????, ?? ?????? ?????? ???????? ??? ??? ??????? ? ????? > > ????? ??????????? ????? Windous. ? ??? ??? ? ?????? ????????????? ??????? > > ????? ? ??? ??????????? ????? ??????. ? ? ???????? ??? ?????? ??? > > ??????????????? ?????????? ?????????? Linux ? ??? ?????? ? 2011 ???? > > ????? ????? ????????? ?????????? ?? ??? ???????????? ??????? ? ??? ?? > > ???????????? ??????? ????? ???????? ? ???? ???????? ???????? ?????????? > > ????? ???? ?? 30% ??? ?? ??????? ???????? ? Windous. ??? ??? ?? ????????? > > ???? ????? ???????, ??? ? Linux ??????? ??????? > > A literal Babelfish translation: > > now on TV they spoke about Linux, the fact that this operating system is > thus far barely developed about, but now many recognize that it cheaper > and it has many advantages over Windous. And that it within the > framework of national project will be developed very rapidly. But in > Germany even now all offices of state are used Linux and that Europe to > 2011 will be almost completely converted to this operating system and > that those programmers which can work with this system they obtain wages > higher by 30% how those which they work with Windous. So that you > completely rights when said that in Linux the large future > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 00:20:39 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 19:20:39 -0500 Subject: Linux in Russia In-Reply-To: <200702251116.11808.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <246785.62615.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200702251116.11808.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45E227D7.3000708@telly.org> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > ?????? ?? TV ???????? ? Linux, ? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? ???????????? ??????? ???? > ????? ?? ???????, ?? ?????? ?????? ???????? ??? ??? ??????? ? ????? ????? > ??????????? ????? Windous. ? ??? ??? ? ?????? ????????????? ??????? ????? ? > ??? ??????????? ????? ??????. ? ? ???????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????????????? > ?????????? ?????????? Linux ? ??? ?????? ? 2011 ???? ????? ????? ????????? > ?????????? ?? ??? ???????????? ??????? ? ??? ?? ???????????? ??????? ????? > ???????? ? ???? ???????? ???????? ?????????? ????? ???? ?? 30% ??? ?? ??????? > ???????? ? Windous. ??? ??? ?? ????????? ???? ????? ???????, ??? ? Linux > ??????? ??????? > Google is my friend. I told it the above text and it told me: "Now on TV talked about Linux, the fact that we have the operating system is barely developed, it is now widely recognized that it is cheaper and has many advantages over Windous. And it is a national project will be our evolve very quickly. And in Germany now all government agencies are using Linux, and that Europe by 2011 will be almost completely to the operating system and that the programmers who can work from the system earn above 30% than those who work with Windous. So you had it right when he said that the Linux future" (yes, that's exactly how it ended.) The timing of this probably has something to do over the recent news that at least one school system decided to ditch Microsoft after a piracy scare. Apparently a principal is being prosecuted for purchasing computers that contained (apparently, unknown to him) bootleg copies of Windows. While Putin has become directly involved on the principal's side, prosecuters are were seeking a jail sentence. The response? Rather than be unsure of whether their Windows software is legitimate or not, schools choosing Linux don't have that risk. http://eng.cnews.ru/news/top/indexEn.shtml?2007/02/05/234178 - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 02:26:16 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:26:16 -0500 Subject: Can't Write to External Drive From User Account Message-ID: <20070225212616.18dbc59b.gstrom@teksavvy.com> I recently bought a 200 GB Maxtor OneTouch III USB 2.0 external hard drive. My system is a Dell Dimension 4100 running Slackware 10.2 with a 2.4.31 kernel. The drive was recognized as sda. I partitioned it as sda1 and sda2. >From root, everything works fine. From my user account, I can't write to the drive. I can mount it and read it, but not write to it. Since I have no trouble mounting the drive, I believe the fstab entries are correct: /dev/sda1 /mnt/usbdrive1 ext3 noauto,rw,users 0 0 /dev/sda2 /mnt/usbdrive2 ext3 noauto,rw,users 0 0 The permissions on /dev/sda1 and /dev/sda2 were as follows: rw- r-- --- root disk My user account is already a member of the disk group, so I changed the permissions to rw- rw- ---, but that didn't help. I don't know if this might be a Slackware-specific problem or a general permissions problem with some small thing I've overlooked. Does anyone have a suggestion? Thanks. -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fajarpri-RL4StXjWbcMdnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 02:40:29 2007 From: fajarpri-RL4StXjWbcMdnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Fajar Priyanto) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:40:29 +0700 Subject: Can't Write to External Drive From User Account In-Reply-To: <20070225212616.18dbc59b.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070225212616.18dbc59b.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <200702260940.30033.fajarpri@arinet.org> On Monday 26 February 2007 09:26, Glen Strom wrote: > I recently bought a 200 GB Maxtor OneTouch III USB 2.0 external hard > drive. My system is a Dell Dimension 4100 running Slackware 10.2 with a > 2.4.31 kernel. > > The drive was recognized as sda. I partitioned it as sda1 and sda2. > From root, everything works fine. From my user account, I can't write > to the drive. I can mount it and read it, but not write to it. > > Since I have no trouble mounting the drive, I believe the fstab entries > are correct: > > /dev/sda1 /mnt/usbdrive1 ext3 noauto,rw,users 0 0 > /dev/sda2 /mnt/usbdrive2 ext3 noauto,rw,users 0 0 > > > The permissions on /dev/sda1 and /dev/sda2 were as follows: > > rw- r-- --- root disk > > My user account is already a member of the disk group, so I > changed the permissions to rw- rw- ---, but that didn't help. > > I don't know if this might be a Slackware-specific problem or a general > permissions problem with some small thing I've overlooked. Does anyone > have a suggestion? Hi Glen, You have done the right thing. However since the /dev is owned by root and the permission is likely rwxr-xr-x, then it's still not writable. So, let's try this: 1. Make a directory in /dev/sda1, such as /dev/sda1/mydata 2. And chown it to your use account. It works for me here (using OpenSuse10.2). HTH, -- Fajar Priyanto | Reg'd Linux User #327841 | Linux tutorial http://linux2.arinet.org 9:36am up 1:17, 2.6.18.2-34-default GNU/Linux Let's use OpenOffice. http://www.openoffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 03:58:53 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:58:53 -0500 Subject: Can't Write to External Drive From User Account In-Reply-To: <20070225212616.18dbc59b.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070225212616.18dbc59b.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: On 2/25/07, Glen Strom wrote: > I don't know if this might be a Slackware-specific problem or a general > permissions problem with some small thing I've overlooked. Does anyone > have a suggestion? I don't see anything that sounds overtly wrong... What I would suggest is that you create a subdirectory on the new filesystem, as root, and chown that to an ordinary user account. The essential trouble is that a mount point, once a filesystem is mounted on it, has a pretty "rooty" flavour to it... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 04:38:15 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:38:15 -0500 Subject: Can't Write to External Drive From User Account In-Reply-To: <200702260940.30033.fajarpri-RL4StXjWbcMdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> References: <20070225212616.18dbc59b.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <200702260940.30033.fajarpri@arinet.org> Message-ID: <20070225233815.6a557736.gstrom@teksavvy.com> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:40:29 +0700 Fajar Priyanto wrote: > On Monday 26 February 2007 09:26, Glen Strom wrote: > > I recently bought a 200 GB Maxtor OneTouch III USB 2.0 external hard > > drive. My system is a Dell Dimension 4100 running Slackware 10.2 > > with a 2.4.31 kernel. > > > > The drive was recognized as sda. I partitioned it as sda1 and sda2. > > From root, everything works fine. From my user account, I can't > > write to the drive. I can mount it and read it, but not write to it. > > > > Since I have no trouble mounting the drive, I believe the fstab > > entries are correct: > > > > /dev/sda1 /mnt/usbdrive1 ext3 noauto,rw,users 0 0 > > /dev/sda2 /mnt/usbdrive2 ext3 noauto,rw,users 0 0 > > > > > > The permissions on /dev/sda1 and /dev/sda2 were as follows: > > > > rw- r-- --- root disk > > > > My user account is already a member of the disk group, so I > > changed the permissions to rw- rw- ---, but that didn't help. > > > > I don't know if this might be a Slackware-specific problem or a > > general permissions problem with some small thing I've overlooked. > > Does anyone have a suggestion? > > Hi Glen, > You have done the right thing. However since the /dev is owned by > root and the permission is likely rwxr-xr-x, then it's still not > writable. So, let's try this: > 1. Make a directory in /dev/sda1, such as /dev/sda1/mydata > 2. And chown it to your use account. > That works. Thanks to both Fajar and Christopher. -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 08:09:02 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 03:09:02 -0500 Subject: Revolution OS Message-ID: <1172477342.14229.111.camel@stan64.site> Last week on tllts they had the maker of Revolution OS which I had never heard of before (the movie). It isn't a free movie, but if you google you'll find a 700MB high quality copy avi out there in net land. I asked on tllts (chat) if he had a paypal link to donate $ and he gave a email (for paypal) but no link is on his site (i'd have to replay the podcast to extract the email, i don;t remember it off hand). Not sure how many (in tlug) have seen it. It is worth watching, but kind of dated. A few interesting things i observed/learned from it are: I (mistakingly now i see) have been refering to MS as a monopoly, which of course they are not, as if they were that would imply that they have no serious competitor for OS (and office, etc), which of course they do. However, they certainly were 4-6 years ago and before, but I do have to (like probably many) stop refering to MS as a Monopoly, because as doing so, one is really dumping on Linux. Of course we know the Monopoly lock they did have, still works in their favour today because of peoples lock in. I also am one who pronouces Linux "line x" Which is the third most popular pronouncation behind "len x" and "len nukes" Now in the movie RMS pronouces the "nukes" so hard its actually funny. I pronunce it (i guess most feel mispronous it), because even thou I only started to use Linux on my desktop starting about 5-6 years ago, and on servers a few years before that, when i first started to talk about it with school mates, when it came out as Yggdrasil Linux in UofT book store back in '93 (or sometime around that), "we" pronounced it like we saw it, with no heard audio pronouncation at that time from Linus as a guide. Now most actually don't pronounce it the "proper" way with the "nukes" at the end, so I don't feel to bad with my pronouncation, but what i found interesting, is that Linux did say the name came from the sound of his first name with the "ux" at the end, and do not must pronounce his hame "line - us" not "len us", so according to Linus, shouldn't it be pronouncd as i do "line ux" in North America ? What was also interesting is that Bruce Perens talks funny, and moves his head acutely when talks, almost like he is moving a dry cracker around in the back of his throat while he talks, it was kind of weird. Great guy, but certainly talks weird, maybe he did have a cold/flu. anyways, if you havn't seen it, check it out. and send the creator a few bucks to if you watch it all the way through. -tl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 13:20:03 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:20:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: compilation error: opal-2.2.5 + g++-3.3.6-8 Message-ID: Hi all, I get a compilation error from g++ when I try to compile opal with g++. Details: opal: opal-2.2.5 g++: g++ (GCC) 3.3.6 (Debian 1:3.3.6-8) error: g++: Internal error: Killed (program cc1plus) while compiling file: src/opal/transcoders.cxx Has anyone seen this and is there a known workaround ? thanks, Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 16:46:51 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:46:51 -0500 Subject: Padding numbers in filenames Message-ID: <20070226164651.GK632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I have a mess of sequentially numbered files (1.png, 2.png ... 824.png) that I'd like to pad the filenames of so that they sort prettily (0001.png, 0002.png ... 0824.png). I thought to use the rename command, but I'm not getting the results I need, and Google didn't help. Here's what I tried with rename: rename -n "s/(\d)\.png/000$1png/" * This would only catch the first 9 files, but I no that I had the right method. I can certainly whip up a quick program in Python or Perl (I could probably learn enough Ruby in half an hour too, or Lua, or C, or ... you get the picture) but I was curious where I was going wrong with rename. Any suggestions? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 16:53:15 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:53:15 +0000 Subject: Padding numbers in filenames In-Reply-To: <20070226164651.GK632-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070226164651.GK632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On 2/26/07, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I have a mess of sequentially numbered files (1.png, 2.png ... 824.png) > that I'd like to pad the filenames of so that they sort prettily > (0001.png, 0002.png ... 0824.png). I thought to use the rename command, > but I'm not getting the results I need, and Google didn't help. > > Here's what I tried with rename: > > rename -n "s/(\d)\.png/000$1png/" * > > This would only catch the first 9 files, but I no that I had the right > method. > > I can certainly whip up a quick program in Python or Perl (I could > probably learn enough Ruby in half an hour too, or Lua, or C, or ... > you get the picture) but I was curious where I was going wrong with > rename. Any suggestions? Thanks. Well, here's something that echos the commands to the command line: cbbrowne at dba2:~/> for i in `seq 12`; do f1=`printf "%d.png" $i` f2=`printf "%03d.png" $i` echo "mv $f1 $f2" done mv 1.png 001.png mv 2.png 002.png mv 3.png 003.png mv 4.png 004.png mv 5.png 005.png mv 6.png 006.png mv 7.png 007.png mv 8.png 008.png mv 9.png 009.png mv 10.png 010.png mv 11.png 011.png mv 12.png 012.png Change the last line as shown below to get the renaming to actually take place... for i in `seq 12`; do f1=`printf "%d.png" $i` f2=`printf "%03d.png" $i` mv $f1 $f2 done -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 16:56:25 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:56:25 -0500 Subject: Padding numbers in filenames In-Reply-To: <20070226164651.GK632-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070226164651.GK632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <7ac602420702260856x2c951dcfu69af4fdbffa3fa84@mail.gmail.com> There might be a faster way, but I always solve this problem with a for loop (in Bash--not sure how the syntax differs for other shells). for i in [1-9].png; { mv $i 000$i; } for i in [1-9][0-9].png; { mv $i 00$i; } for i in [1-9][0-9][0-9].png { mv $i 0$i; } Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 17:45:32 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:45:32 -0500 Subject: Now THIS is advocacy! In-Reply-To: References: <45DCAD35.7030804@telly.org> <20070221224206.GC22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45DCD56C.3000707@telly.org> <20070222162951.GF22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070226174532.GL22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 23, 2007 at 06:29:12PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > If Dell sold consumer desktops and notebooks that came with Linux, I > might buy them. I would probably not use their choice of Linux, but > it would mean that they had managed to get Linux to support > everything. And promise used to claim to support linux even though what they meant was that they had binary drivers you could load on redhat and suse, if you ran the stock kernel. Dell has even claimed linux support on some of their servers in the past using the same trick. Dell claiming support doesn't mean much without independant verification. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 17:47:33 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:47:33 -0500 Subject: Mythtv - Archive In-Reply-To: <200702251232.11240.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200702251232.11240.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20070226174733.GM22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Feb 25, 2007 at 12:32:11PM -0500, Merv Curley wrote: > Sorry gang, but more help req'd. > > I have followed the Mythtv Wiki for using the Archive plugin and I think all > is well down to the Log Viewer. I assume that it tells the user about the > progress of the burn to DVD via the updates that are done each 5 sec's. > > If it makes a difference, I am using SuSE 10.2 as a frontend doing the > recording, the Mythtv server is on another machine. > > However I think I have a problem since nothing is happening in the log, here > are the last incoherent lines [ laboriously copied and entered here > correctly?]. Maybe needs a Python programmer? > > Traceback > File '/usr/lib/python2.5/posixpath.py"', line 62, injoin elif path == "or path > endswith ('/'): > Attribute Error: 'None Type' object has no attribute 'endswith' > > Any help would be appreciated since my hard drive is filling up with Movies. I use python 2.4. I have no idea what changed in 2.5, or if any such changes could be breaking mytharchive. And I run mythtv on debian sid (which is amazingly trivial to get going). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 17:59:57 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:59:57 -0500 Subject: Revolution OS In-Reply-To: <1172477342.14229.111.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1172477342.14229.111.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <20070226175957.GN22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 26, 2007 at 03:09:02AM -0500, tleslie wrote: > Now most actually don't pronounce it the "proper" way with the "nukes" > at the end, so I don't feel to bad with my pronouncation, but what i > found interesting, is that Linux did say the name came from > the sound of his first name with the "ux" at the end, > and do not must pronounce his hame "line - us" > not "len us", so according to Linus, shouldn't > it be pronouncd as i do "line ux" in North America ? Just because you are in North America is no reason to mispromounce names (although it is near imposible to get people to do it right in many places since sometimes they simple can't hear the rather big difference, given you tend to loose the ability to hear sound distinctions you don't actually use). :) Linus is pronounced something along the lines of Lee-noose, except probably a bit shorter vowel sounds. As for Torvalds, I won't even go there. Of course given Linus is actually an English name it would seem, it is quite possible that it is Linus and his family that got the pronounciation wrong. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 18:02:00 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:02:00 -0500 Subject: Can't Write to External Drive From User Account In-Reply-To: <20070225212616.18dbc59b.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070225212616.18dbc59b.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20070226180200.GO22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Feb 25, 2007 at 09:26:16PM -0500, Glen Strom wrote: > I recently bought a 200 GB Maxtor OneTouch III USB 2.0 external hard > drive. My system is a Dell Dimension 4100 running Slackware 10.2 with a > 2.4.31 kernel. > > The drive was recognized as sda. I partitioned it as sda1 and sda2. > From root, everything works fine. From my user account, I can't write > to the drive. I can mount it and read it, but not write to it. > > Since I have no trouble mounting the drive, I believe the fstab entries > are correct: > > /dev/sda1 /mnt/usbdrive1 ext3 noauto,rw,users 0 0 > /dev/sda2 /mnt/usbdrive2 ext3 noauto,rw,users 0 0 > > The permissions on /dev/sda1 and /dev/sda2 were as follows: > > rw- r-- --- root disk Device permissions have nothing to do with filesystem access, only raw device access. > My user account is already a member of the disk group, so I > changed the permissions to rw- rw- ---, but that didn't help. > > I don't know if this might be a Slackware-specific problem or a general > permissions problem with some small thing I've overlooked. Does anyone > have a suggestion? If it is in fact ext3 then it all comes down to normal unix permissions. Who owns the root directory of /mnt/usbdrive1 and /mnt/usbdrive2? ls -ld /mnt/usbdrive[12] -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 18:21:53 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:21:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: April 2007 Linux Magazine. Message-ID: <167320.86866.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I have seen the planned front cover for the April 2007 Linux Magazine. On the cover is a red top hat with a 5 of spades playing card tucked into the hatband. Inside each of the spades is the face of a penguin... All rather neat. The reason I mention this is because (tooting my own horn), the art is to go with my review of Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 (which I have hat the chance to play with in Release Candidate 1 form over the last several weeks :-) ). Over all, I did like what I saw, big thing is the support for Xen virtualization in RHEL 5, with a few other interesting goodies tossed in on the side. Any event, in a few weeks the magazine should be out on some of the largest news stands in the city :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 18:24:56 2007 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:24:56 -0500 Subject: April 2007 Linux Magazine. In-Reply-To: <167320.86866.qm-7EKNVtTItHqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <167320.86866.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Way to go Colin, for snagging the cover story of Linux Magazine! pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Registered Linux user #2065 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 18:33:52 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:33:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: April 2007 Linux Magazine. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <188839.81486.qm@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Paul Mora wrote: > Way to go Colin, for snagging the cover story of > Linux Magazine! > > pm Thanks, the review also gave me a chance to spend a bit of time playing with an IBM x3950 server (a bit heavy, the fans are a little loud, and power consumption a bit high to make for a good home PC, but otherwise very nice (multiple 3 GHz Xeon CPUs are nice :-) ). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 18:35:45 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:35:45 -0500 Subject: Mythtv - Archive In-Reply-To: <20070226174733.GM22465-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200702251232.11240.mervc@eol.ca> <20070226174733.GM22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200702261335.45927.mervc@eol.ca> On Monday 26 February 2007 12:47, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Traceback > > File '/usr/lib/python2.5/posixpath.py"', line 62, injoin elif path == "or > > path endswith ('/'): > > Attribute Error: 'None Type' object has no attribute 'endswith' > > > > Any help would be appreciated since my hard drive is filling up with > > Movies. > > I use python 2.4. I have no idea what changed in 2.5, or if any such > changes could be breaking mytharchive. > > And I run mythtv on debian sid (which is amazingly trivial to get > going). > Well I did have a problem with Debian and FC-6, I don't recall what they were but I set it aside since the SuSE setup went well. I'll get back to Debian, running on this machine, and see if I get the same error. The python script is just doing something with '/' separators, adding or deleting them, I can't figure it out. Thanks for the reply -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 18:43:24 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:43:24 -0500 Subject: Revolution OS In-Reply-To: <20070226175957.GN22465-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1172477342.14229.111.camel@stan64.site> <20070226175957.GN22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200702261343.24285.mervc@eol.ca> On Monday 26 February 2007 12:59, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Feb 26, 2007 at 03:09:02AM -0500, tleslie wrote: > > Now most actually don't pronounce it the "proper" way with the "nukes" > > at the end, so I don't feel to bad with my pronouncation, but what i > > found interesting, is that Linux did say the name came from > > the sound of his first name with the "ux" at the end, > > and do not must pronounce his hame "line - us" > > not "len us", so according to Linus, shouldn't > > it be pronouncd as i do "line ux" in North America ? > Well I took my pronunciation from Peanuts - and we all know what a reference that is. I like Line-us and Line-ux. And I'll defend my right to mis-prounce it, paraphrasing Charlie Heston. Cheers -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 19:22:41 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:22:41 -0500 Subject: Revolution OS In-Reply-To: <200702261343.24285.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1172477342.14229.111.camel@stan64.site> <20070226175957.GN22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200702261343.24285.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <45E33381.9040502@rogers.com> Merv Curley wrote: > On Monday 26 February 2007 12:59, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> On Mon, Feb 26, 2007 at 03:09:02AM -0500, tleslie wrote: >> >>> Now most actually don't pronounce it the "proper" way with the "nukes" >>> at the end, so I don't feel to bad with my pronouncation, but what i >>> found interesting, is that Linux did say the name came from >>> the sound of his first name with the "ux" at the end, >>> and do not must pronounce his hame "line - us" >>> not "len us", so according to Linus, shouldn't >>> it be pronouncd as i do "line ux" in North America ? >>> > > Well I took my pronunciation from Peanuts - and we all know what a reference > that is. Leanuts??? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 14:04:49 2007 From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 08:04:49 -0600 (CST) Subject: Revolution OS In-Reply-To: <20070226175957.GN22465-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1172477342.14229.111.camel@stan64.site> <20070226175957.GN22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: in formal incantations, a proper finnish accent should always be used: http://www.safalra.com/science/linguistics/linux-pronunciation/ On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Feb 26, 2007 at 03:09:02AM -0500, tleslie wrote: >> Now most actually don't pronounce it the "proper" way with the "nukes" >> at the end, so I don't feel to bad with my pronouncation, but what i >> found interesting, is that Linux did say the name came from >> the sound of his first name with the "ux" at the end, >> and do not must pronounce his hame "line - us" >> not "len us", so according to Linus, shouldn't >> it be pronouncd as i do "line ux" in North America ? > > Just because you are in North America is no reason to mispromounce names > (although it is near imposible to get people to do it right in many > places since sometimes they simple can't hear the rather big difference, > given you tend to loose the ability to hear sound distinctions you don't > actually use). :) > > Linus is pronounced something along the lines of Lee-noose, except > probably a bit shorter vowel sounds. As for Torvalds, I won't even go > there. Of course given Linus is actually an English name it would seem, > it is quite possible that it is Linus and his family that got the > pronounciation wrong. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Scott C. Ripley phone: (416)738-6357 www: http://www.scottripley.com email: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Secure Your E-Mail! http://www.mysecuremail.com/javascrypt/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 21:53:17 2007 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:53:17 -0500 Subject: Groklaw Down ? Message-ID: <45E356CD.9060305@golden.net> PJ's down now the site ..........hmmmmmm Here's what I got when I tried to connect. Sorry, there are hardware problems with the database server, the RAID card is fried. Prognosis is that it will take till tomorrow EST to fix the machine. Groklaw will be down until then. Me thinks there is something up ? John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 22:06:41 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:06:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Groklaw Down ? In-Reply-To: <45E356CD.9060305-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <45E356CD.9060305@golden.net> Message-ID: <613304.31006.qm@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- John Myshrall wrote: > PJ's down now the site ..........hmmmmmm > > Here's what I got when I tried to connect. > > Sorry, there are hardware problems with the database > server, the RAID > card is fried. Prognosis is that it will take till > tomorrow EST to fix > the machine. Groklaw will be down until then. > > Me thinks there is something up ? Sometimes things are EXACTLY what they claim to be, and my take is this is likely one of them. If Groklaw is still down by say noon Wednesday then I may start to wonder if something more sinister is up, but for now, a dead RAID card sounds like a reasonable reason to a dead site to me... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 22:09:12 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:09:12 -0500 Subject: Groklaw Down ? In-Reply-To: <45E356CD.9060305-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <45E356CD.9060305@golden.net> Message-ID: <45E35A88.7020100@alteeve.com> John Myshrall wrote: > PJ's down now the site ..........hmmmmmm > > Here's what I got when I tried to connect. > > Sorry, there are hardware problems with the database server, the RAID > card is fried. Prognosis is that it will take till tomorrow EST to fix > the machine. Groklaw will be down until then. > > Me thinks there is something up ? > John Me thinks we should wait until "tomorrow EST" before worrying. PJ's sick, and has been under tremendous stress for our benefit. Let's give her the benefit of the doubt and take her at her word. If anything over these years, she's earned the respect and value of her words. Madi (hoping PJ the best, and looking forward to hearing from her again) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 22:16:10 2007 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:16:10 -0500 Subject: Groklaw down Message-ID: <45E35C2A.4040805@rogers.com> I don't think that there is much to it. Groklaw has been having database problems for some time -- usually giving a "can't connect to DB server" error. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 22:28:14 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:28:14 -0500 Subject: Can't Write to External Drive From User Account In-Reply-To: <20070226180200.GO22465-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070225212616.18dbc59b.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070226180200.GO22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070226172814.d320f4aa.gstrom@teksavvy.com> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:02:00 -0500 lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: > On Sun, Feb 25, 2007 at 09:26:16PM -0500, Glen Strom wrote: > > I recently bought a 200 GB Maxtor OneTouch III USB 2.0 external hard > > drive. My system is a Dell Dimension 4100 running Slackware 10.2 > > with a 2.4.31 kernel. > > > > The drive was recognized as sda. I partitioned it as sda1 and sda2. > > From root, everything works fine. From my user account, I can't > > write to the drive. I can mount it and read it, but not write to it. > > > > Since I have no trouble mounting the drive, I believe the fstab > > entries are correct: > > > > /dev/sda1 /mnt/usbdrive1 ext3 noauto,rw,users 0 0 > > /dev/sda2 /mnt/usbdrive2 ext3 noauto,rw,users 0 0 > > > > The permissions on /dev/sda1 and /dev/sda2 were as follows: > > > > rw- r-- --- root disk > > Device permissions have nothing to do with filesystem access, only raw > device access. > > > My user account is already a member of the disk group, so I > > changed the permissions to rw- rw- ---, but that didn't help. > > > > I don't know if this might be a Slackware-specific problem or a > > general permissions problem with some small thing I've overlooked. > > Does anyone have a suggestion? > > If it is in fact ext3 then it all comes down to normal unix > permissions. Who owns the root directory of /mnt/usbdrive1 > and /mnt/usbdrive2? > > ls -ld /mnt/usbdrive[12] > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2007-02-22 21:42 /mnt/usbdrive1 drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 2007-02-25 23:28 /mnt/usbdrive2 -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 26 21:38:57 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:38:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: Padding numbers in filenames In-Reply-To: <20070226164651.GK632-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070226164651.GK632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I have a mess of sequentially numbered files (1.png, 2.png ... 824.png) > that I'd like to pad the filenames of so that they sort prettily > (0001.png, 0002.png ... 0824.png). I thought to use the rename command, > but I'm not getting the results I need, and Google didn't help. > > Here's what I tried with rename: > > rename -n "s/(\d)\.png/000$1png/" * > > This would only catch the first 9 files, but I no that I had the right > method. > > I can certainly whip up a quick program in Python or Perl (I could > probably learn enough Ruby in half an hour too, or Lua, or C, or ... > you get the picture) but I was curious where I was going wrong with > rename. Any suggestions? Thanks. There are at least two different versions of rename, and they do not take the same syntax. A shell script (this is bash/ksh93 specific) is straightforward: for file in [1-9]*.png do newname=0000$file newname=${newname: -8} ## POSIX: newname=${newname#"${newname%????????}"} mv "$file" "$newname" done -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 01:11:41 2007 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 20:11:41 -0500 Subject: Recent Sympatico mail problems? Message-ID: <45E3854D.6000208@rogers.com> Hi Folk, I have a friend that has been trying to send me some stuff, but he told me tonight that Sympatico has been erroring out with a message that says "relaying mail to mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org is not allowed" and then it goes on to say the usual drivel about checking the email address etc. Mt friend reports that he has had similar problems with other Rogers accounts. He also told me that he can receive mail with no problems and that the problem started this weekend. FWIW, he uses Thunderbird on Win XP. Has anybody here been experiencing problems of this sort recently with Sympatico? I'd switch him to Ubuntu if I could, but unfortunately XP is already on the periphery of his no fly zone. TIA John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 02:16:18 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:16:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: Movie Night at TLUG? Message-ID: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> How about this for a TLUG meeting? We could each throw a couple of bucks into the pot, buy the DVD, and then show it at a meeting. The wikipedia entry is at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_os. -------------------------------------------------------- REVOLUTION OS is now on DVD REVOLUTION OS tells the inside story of the hackers who rebelled against the proprietary software model and Microsoft to create GNU/Linux and the Open Source movement. On June 1, 2001, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer said "Linux is a cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches." Microsoft fears GNU/Linux, and rightly so. GNU/Linux and the Open Source & Free Software movements arguably represent the greatest threat to Microsoft's way of life. Shot in cinemascope on 35mm film in Silicon Valley, REVOLUTION OS tracks down the key movers and shakers behind Linux, and finds out how and why Linux became such a potent threat. REVOLUTION OS features interviews with Linus Torvalds, Richard Stallman, Bruce Perens, Eric Raymond, Brian Behlendorf, Michael Tiemann, Larry Augustin, Frank Hecker, and Rob Malda. To view the trailer or the first eight minutes go to the ifilm website for REVOLUTION OS. Companies such as Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Oracle, Wipro, Ogilvy & Mather, OSTG, and Dreamworks Animation have rented REVOLUTON OS for private theatrical screenings. It has also screened in numerous film festivals including South By Southwest Film Festival, the Atlanta Film & Video Festival, Boston Film Festival, and Denver International Film Festival. REVOLUTION OS won Best Documentary at both the Savannah Film & Video Festival and the Kudzu Film Festival. REVOLUTION OS is available in the 35 mm motion picture format and runs 85 minutes. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 02:35:49 2007 From: rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org (Rick Delaney) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:35:49 -0500 Subject: Padding numbers in filenames In-Reply-To: <20070226164651.GK632-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070226164651.GK632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070227023549.GL19151@bort.ca> On Feb 26 2007, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > > rename -n "s/(\d)\.png/000$1png/" * > > This would only catch the first 9 files, but I no that I had the right > method. That's because you're only matching a single digit. It will "catch" more files but do the wrong thing. rename -n 's/(\d+)/sprintf("%04d", $1)/e' *.png or without the wasteful brackets rename -n 's/\d+/sprintf("%04d", $&)/e' *.png > I can certainly whip up a quick program in Python or Perl (I could ?? rename *is* Perl. -- Rick Delaney rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 02:46:15 2007 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:46:15 -0500 Subject: Movie Night at TLUG? In-Reply-To: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <45E39B77.3050307@gmail.com> I have a good quality .avi of the RevolutionOS. I was going to install this on a KnoppMyth box at Linuxcaffe. (we are waiting for a PIII) /teddy phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > How about this for a TLUG meeting? We could each throw a couple of bucks > into the pot, buy the DVD, and then show it at a meeting. > > The wikipedia entry is at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_os. > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > REVOLUTION OS is now on DVD > > REVOLUTION OS tells the inside story of the hackers who rebelled against > the proprietary software model and Microsoft to create GNU/Linux and the > Open Source movement. > > On June 1, 2001, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer said "Linux is a cancer that > attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it > touches." > > Microsoft fears GNU/Linux, and rightly so. GNU/Linux and the Open Source & > Free Software movements arguably represent the greatest threat to > Microsoft's way of life. Shot in cinemascope on 35mm film in Silicon > Valley, REVOLUTION OS tracks down the key movers and shakers behind Linux, > and finds out how and why Linux became such a potent threat. > > REVOLUTION OS features interviews with Linus Torvalds, Richard Stallman, > Bruce Perens, Eric Raymond, Brian Behlendorf, Michael Tiemann, Larry > Augustin, Frank Hecker, and Rob Malda. To view the trailer or the first > eight minutes go to the ifilm website for REVOLUTION OS. > > Companies such as Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Oracle, Wipro, Ogilvy & Mather, > OSTG, and Dreamworks Animation have rented REVOLUTON OS for private > theatrical screenings. It has also screened in numerous film festivals > including South By Southwest Film Festival, the Atlanta Film & Video > Festival, Boston Film Festival, and Denver International Film Festival. > REVOLUTION OS won Best Documentary at both the Savannah Film & Video > Festival and the Kudzu Film Festival. > > REVOLUTION OS is available in the 35 mm motion picture format and runs 85 > minutes. > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 14:56:36 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 09:56:36 -0500 Subject: Can't Write to External Drive From User Account In-Reply-To: <20070226172814.d320f4aa.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070225212616.18dbc59b.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070226180200.GO22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070226172814.d320f4aa.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20070227145636.GP22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 26, 2007 at 05:28:14PM -0500, Glen Strom wrote: > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2007-02-22 21:42 /mnt/usbdrive1 > > drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 2007-02-25 23:28 /mnt/usbdrive2 So only root has write access, and everyone else can read. Nothing chmod and chown can't deal with. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 15:00:01 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:00:01 -0500 Subject: Padding numbers in filenames In-Reply-To: <20070227023549.GL19151-h4KjNK7Mzas@public.gmane.org> References: <20070226164651.GK632@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070227023549.GL19151@bort.ca> Message-ID: <20070227150001.GA3004@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Mon, Feb 26, 2007 at 09:35:49PM -0500, Rick Delaney wrote: >On Feb 26 2007, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> >> rename -n "s/(\d)\.png/000$1png/" * >> >> This would only catch the first 9 files, but I no that I had the right >> method. > >That's because you're only matching a single digit. It will "catch" >more files but do the wrong thing. Thank you! I keep forgetting about greedy tokens. I just don't use regexes often enough. > rename -n 's/\d+/sprintf("%04d", $&)/e' *.png Interesting - I've never really used the "e" switch, or seen sprintf in a regex, but it certainly makes sense. The fact that everyone suggested using a formatted print should be a clue for me to get more acquainted with them. >?? rename *is* Perl. That's why I tend to use it before I use a bash loop - I have spent way more time with Perl then with bash. Not enough, plainly, but still :-) Thanks to all. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 15:30:14 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:30:14 -0500 Subject: Groklaw Down ? In-Reply-To: <45E356CD.9060305-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <45E356CD.9060305@golden.net> Message-ID: On 2/26/07, John Myshrall wrote: > > PJ's down now the site ..........hmmmmmm > > Here's what I got when I tried to connect. > > Sorry, there are hardware problems with the database server, the RAID > card is fried. Prognosis is that it will take till tomorrow EST to fix > the machine. Groklaw will be down until then. > > Me thinks there is something up ? OK, you can put all of your conspiracy theories away now ;) .. http://www.groklaw.net/ is back up. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 15:37:34 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:37:34 -0500 Subject: Groklaw Down ? In-Reply-To: References: <45E356CD.9060305@golden.net> Message-ID: <45E4503E.6010209@rogers.com> Alex Beamish wrote: > > > On 2/26/07, *John Myshrall* > wrote: > > PJ's down now the site ..........hmmmmmm > > Here's what I got when I tried to connect. > > Sorry, there are hardware problems with the database server, the RAID > card is fried. Prognosis is that it will take till tomorrow EST to > fix > the machine. Groklaw will be down until then. > > Me thinks there is something up ? > > > OK, you can put all of your conspiracy theories away now ;) .. > http://www.groklaw.net/ is back up. > And here I was getting ready to blame SCO. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 16:15:14 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:15:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: Movie Night at TLUG? In-Reply-To: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > How about this for a TLUG meeting? We could each throw a couple of bucks > into the pot, buy the DVD, and then show it at a meeting. I love this idea. How do others feel about trying to get this going for the next meeting - (March 13)? Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 16:17:03 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 11:16:03 +1859 Subject: Movie Night at TLUG? In-Reply-To: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420702270817t6cf01080o9f71cdbb3f81e6a3@mail.gmail.com> I'd certainly be willing to throw in a couple of dollars. What if there was a one- or two-dollar admittance fee that night and the extra money went into GTALUG's account? Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 16:38:17 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:38:17 -0500 Subject: Can't Write to External Drive From User Account In-Reply-To: <20070227145636.GP22465-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070225212616.18dbc59b.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070226180200.GO22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070226172814.d320f4aa.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070227145636.GP22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070227113817.69ee6063.gstrom@teksavvy.com> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 09:56:36 -0500 lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: > On Mon, Feb 26, 2007 at 05:28:14PM -0500, Glen Strom wrote: > > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2007-02-22 21:42 /mnt/usbdrive1 > > > > drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 2007-02-25 23:28 /mnt/usbdrive2 > > So only root has write access, and everyone else can read. Nothing > chmod and chown can't deal with. > I tried the following combinations--none work. rwx rwx rwx root root rwx rwx rwx root disk rwx rwx rwx root users rwx rwx rwx users -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 16:44:53 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:44:53 -0500 Subject: Movie Night at TLUG? In-Reply-To: <7ac602420702270817t6cf01080o9f71cdbb3f81e6a3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <7ac602420702270817t6cf01080o9f71cdbb3f81e6a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1172594693.14229.167.camel@stan64.site> when i was listening to the film maker (on tllts) he did give a paypal address for donations, so that would be preferable to buying dvd, as he would receive more, so if you decide on the throw in a few dollars way, i can dig his paypal email from the tllts podcast. i was going to throw him a 5'r myself -tl On Wed, 2007-02-28 at 11:16 +0000, Ian Petersen wrote: > I'd certainly be willing to throw in a couple of dollars. What if > there was a one- or two-dollar admittance fee that night and the extra > money went into GTALUG's account? > > Ian > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 16:54:04 2007 From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:54:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: BAC SecureTouch97 Message-ID: <54813.66.135.99.122.1172595244.squirrel@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> Hi All, I picked up a BAC SecureTouch 97 at Active Surplus about a year ago, and I've been thinking it would be an interesting thing to hook up to a Linux box. I got in touch with the manufacturer, but they don't offer anything for Linux (just to give you an idea of the less-than-stellar support for this device, Windows 98 and NT 4 are the only officially supported platforms). I've done some googling, but so far have come up empty-handed. Does anyone have a suggestion as to where I might be able to track down some useable info/drivers/code/etc.? Thanks! Matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 17:16:07 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:16:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Movie Night at TLUG? In-Reply-To: <1172594693.14229.167.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <7ac602420702270817t6cf01080o9f71cdbb3f81e6a3@mail.gmail.com> <1172594693.14229.167.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Feb 2007, tleslie wrote: > > when i was listening to the film maker (on tllts) he did give a paypal > address for donations, so that would be preferable to buying dvd, as he > would receive more, > so if you decide on the throw in a few dollars way, i can dig his paypal > email from the tllts podcast. i was going to throw him a 5'r myself So you are suggesting this would be an option if we watched it in avi format? Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 17:39:05 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:39:05 -0500 Subject: Movie Night at TLUG? In-Reply-To: References: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <7ac602420702270817t6cf01080o9f71cdbb3f81e6a3@mail.gmail.com> <1172594693.14229.167.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <1172597945.14229.188.camel@stan64.site> the avi 700MB i have is pretty good, i cant comment on what others have. -tl On Tue, 2007-02-27 at 12:16 -0500, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Tue, 27 Feb 2007, tleslie wrote: > > > > > when i was listening to the film maker (on tllts) he did give a paypal > > address for donations, so that would be preferable to buying dvd, as he > > would receive more, > > so if you decide on the throw in a few dollars way, i can dig his paypal > > email from the tllts podcast. i was going to throw him a 5'r myself > > So you are suggesting this would be an option if we watched it in avi > format? > > Rob > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 18:33:59 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 27 Feb 2007 13:33:59 -0500 Subject: Can't Write to External Drive From User Account In-Reply-To: <20070227113817.69ee6063.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070225212616.18dbc59b.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070226180200.GO22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070226172814.d320f4aa.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070227145636.GP22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070227113817.69ee6063.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: Glen Strom writes: > On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 09:56:36 -0500 > lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: > > > On Mon, Feb 26, 2007 at 05:28:14PM -0500, Glen Strom wrote: > > > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2007-02-22 21:42 /mnt/usbdrive1 > > > > > > drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 2007-02-25 23:28 /mnt/usbdrive2 > > > > So only root has write access, and everyone else can read. Nothing > > chmod and chown can't deal with. > > > I tried the following combinations--none work. > > rwx rwx rwx root root > rwx rwx rwx root disk > rwx rwx rwx root users > rwx rwx rwx users On the mount point with or without the drive mounted? If you chown/chmod the mount point without the drive mounted, it is overwritten (by the ownership and permissions of root of the mounted file system) when it is mounted. You must chown/chmod the mount point after it is mounted. Of course, the file system must support permissions and ownership. If it's a FAT file system, for example, this won't work. If it's a native Linux file system (ext2, ext3, xfs, jfs, etc.), it will be fine. -- tim writer starnix care inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 18:56:17 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:56:17 +0000 Subject: Movie Night at TLUG? In-Reply-To: References: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On 2/27/07, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > How about this for a TLUG meeting? We could each throw a couple of bucks > > into the pot, buy the DVD, and then show it at a meeting. > > I love this idea. How do others feel about trying to get this going for > the next meeting - (March 13)? Well, Dave Collier-Brown already is scheduled for a talk; I don't think an 85 minute movie can fit into the same meeting. Perhaps the 8 minute trailer could fit... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 19:21:31 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 14:21:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Movie Night at TLUG? In-Reply-To: References: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Feb 2007, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 2/27/07, Robert Brockway wrote: >> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> >> > How about this for a TLUG meeting? We could each throw a couple of bucks >> > into the pot, buy the DVD, and then show it at a meeting. >> >> I love this idea. How do others feel about trying to get this going for >> the next meeting - (March 13)? > > Well, Dave Collier-Brown already is scheduled for a talk; I don't > think an 85 minute movie can fit into the same meeting. Perhaps the 8 > minute trailer could fit... Oh yeah. I'm only the talks coordinator so what would I know ;) Someone suggested I do a talk on virtualisation but It's been quite a hard month so I'd rather not :) If Dave wants to go with this topic I'm all for it :) I note Dave is talking about Xen. At some point I'll follow up with a talk about Qemu. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 19:22:54 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 14:22:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: Movie Night at TLUG? In-Reply-To: <1172597945.14229.188.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <7ac602420702270817t6cf01080o9f71cdbb3f81e6a3@mail.gmail.com> <1172594693.14229.167.camel@stan64.site> <1172597945.14229.188.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Feb 2007, tleslie wrote: > the avi 700MB i have is pretty good, i cant comment on what others have. The next open meeting is May 8. Any objections to Revolution OS being the May 8 meeting event? Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 20:41:37 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:41:37 -0500 Subject: Movie Night at TLUG? In-Reply-To: <1172597945.14229.188.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <7ac602420702270817t6cf01080o9f71cdbb3f81e6a3@mail.gmail.com> <1172594693.14229.167.camel@stan64.site> <1172597945.14229.188.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <45E49781.90208@utoronto.ca> tleslie wrote: > the avi 700MB i have is pretty good, i cant comment on what others have. I bought a copy for Linux in the Park this past summer. I've since donated it to a local coop run by some friends for their DVD collection, but I can borrow it back again for a day or two no problem. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 22:00:13 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:00:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Microsoft squeezing virtualization Message-ID: Microsoft has taken a number of actions that seem to make it harder to use non-MS virtualization products: http://www.vmware.com/solutions/whitepapers/msoft_licensing_wp.html This sure looks like fodder for the US DoJ. Or the Canadian Combines Investigation Act (if the Canadian Govt had guts). BTW, I was one who complained to our government about MS but they never disclosed whether they investigated (that is normal, but it sure lets them off the hook). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 23:08:26 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:08:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tpm] Fwd:Movie Night at TLUG? In-Reply-To: <57897.216.13.71.74.1172614073.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0lrcv4dJfSQg@public.gmane.org> References: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <5bef4baf0702271129t75c1d43dr757bba181e302aff@mail.gmail.com> <57897.216.13.71.74.1172614073.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> Message-ID: <50902.207.188.65.57.1172617706.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> -- TLUG is thinking about doing a >> showing >> of Revolution OS as one of their meetings. > Nobody needs to pay anything; I own a copy of the DVD. > Apparently the movie companies originally opposed video tape recording because of the idea that 'one person could buy a copy of the movie and then multiple people would watch it for free'! Here we are proposing to do what was once Hollywood's worst nightmare. OTOH, the subjects of the movie support this kind of openness, so the whole thing has a pleasing symmetry to it. Then, as it turned out, a whole new market opened up for movies which is at least as lucrative as theatre showings. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 27 23:29:45 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:29:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tpm] Fwd:Movie Night at TLUG? In-Reply-To: <50902.207.188.65.57.1172617706.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <5bef4baf0702271129t75c1d43dr757bba181e302aff@mail.gmail.com> <57897.216.13.71.74.1172614073.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> <50902.207.188.65.57.1172617706.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Feb 2007, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Then, as it turned out, a whole new market opened up for movies which is > at least as lucrative as theatre showings. That's the key right there. Openness actually has a tendency to open new markets (imagine :) So after being dragged kicking and screaming in to a new century certain powerful groups then realise they can make a buck off the new market. It happens time and time again and they still don't get it. Me cynical, of course not ;) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 28 00:49:03 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:49:03 -0500 Subject: "Failed to open control device /dev/em8300-0" In-Reply-To: <50902.207.188.65.57.1172617706.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <57897.216.13.71.74.1172614073.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> <50902.207.188.65.57.1172617706.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <200702271949.03965.softquake@gmail.com> This is xine. And no, I do not expect really help. Though I would be glad to. The reason of my writing is different. I thought for a long time that Google is our friend. That we can find there an answer to any technical problem. Thats right. We can find there _an_ answer. In most cases naive and useless. We can hardly find however a solution to the problem. Why? Because most what we find on Google are silly discussions by unexperienced people. Once they find a solution to their problem they do not bother to report back how they solved their problem. This particular case is possibly not unusual, though silly as well. And difficult, because it is silly: I was able to view movies with xine, without a problem. And than, one day, I found that I can not. There was a short period between, that I could view experiencing problems. That makes me to think that the cause of my problems is in hardware. But why? Where? I can hear sound but have a green xine window instead of movie. In the past, turning on or off some other audio applications removed the problem temporarily. Now, I know nothing more what I could do. Perhaps reinstall the system but that would be a very silly advise. Running xine in verbose mode (--verbose) produces a line like that in the subjec. And if you care to look on Google for that, you will get exactly the same message that I am getting ;) I use right now the most recent versions of xine libraries. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 28 01:01:06 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 20:01:06 -0500 Subject: Microsoft squeezing virtualization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e55af990702271701j3ba8b52boe4e50e7a31f1578d@mail.gmail.com> On 2/27/07, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Microsoft has taken a number of actions that seem to make it harder to use > non-MS virtualization products: > http://www.vmware.com/solutions/whitepapers/msoft_licensing_wp.html That was a very good read. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 28 01:07:57 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 20:07:57 -0500 Subject: Can't Write to External Drive From User Account In-Reply-To: References: <20070225212616.18dbc59b.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070226180200.GO22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070226172814.d320f4aa.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070227145636.GP22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070227113817.69ee6063.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20070227200757.993ff67d.gstrom@teksavvy.com> On 27 Feb 2007 13:33:59 -0500 Tim Writer wrote: > Glen Strom writes: > > > On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 09:56:36 -0500 > > lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Feb 26, 2007 at 05:28:14PM -0500, Glen Strom wrote: > > > > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2007-02-22 21:42 /mnt/usbdrive1 > > > > > > > > drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 2007-02-25 23:28 /mnt/usbdrive2 > > > > > > So only root has write access, and everyone else can read. > > > Nothing chmod and chown can't deal with. > > > > > I tried the following combinations--none work. > > > > rwx rwx rwx root root > > rwx rwx rwx root disk > > rwx rwx rwx root users > > rwx rwx rwx users > > On the mount point with or without the drive mounted? > > If you chown/chmod the mount point without the drive mounted, it is > overwritten (by the ownership and permissions of root of the mounted > file system) when it is mounted. You must chown/chmod the mount point > after it is mounted. > > Of course, the file system must support permissions and ownership. If > it's a FAT file system, for example, this won't work. If it's a > native Linux file system (ext2, ext3, xfs, jfs, etc.), it will be > fine. > I thought I must have forgotten something. It is an ext3 file system, and I was changing the permissions without first mounting the drive. After I mounted it, the change worked, but not without an unexpected side effect (unexpected by me, anyway). When I first changed the permissions, I removed the executable flag because the drive is for backup purposes only: rw- rw- r-- root disk I could not access /mnt/usbdrive1 from my user account. It would only work when I included the executable flag for both root and group. rwx rwx r-- root disk I don't know why that is, but anyway, everything seems to work ok now. -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 28 01:31:15 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 20:31:15 -0500 Subject: Now THIS is advocacy! In-Reply-To: <45DCAD35.7030804-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45DCAD35.7030804@telly.org> Message-ID: <200702272031.16082.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Wednesday 21 February 2007 15:36, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Have a look at http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/hardware/soa/Dell_users_demand_more_Linux_options/0,130061702,339273725,00.htm I wonder what started that ball rolling? By the time I heard about the site (through LWN) there were already 30,000+ votes between the various Linux ideas. Anyway, it seems to have had an impact ... Dell to add Linux-certified desktops, laptops: http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8995206909.html -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 28 01:35:51 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 20:35:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: Can't Write to External Drive From User Account In-Reply-To: <20070227200757.993ff67d.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070225212616.18dbc59b.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070226180200.GO22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070226172814.d320f4aa.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070227145636.GP22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070227113817.69ee6063.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070227200757.993ff67d.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Feb 2007, Glen Strom wrote: ... > When I first changed the permissions, I removed the executable flag > because the drive is for backup purposes only: > > rw- rw- r-- root disk > > I could not access /mnt/usbdrive1 from my user account. It would only > work when I included the executable flag for both root and group. > > rwx rwx r-- root disk > > I don't know why that is, but anyway, everything seems to work ok now. You cannot access a directory unless you have execute permission on it. (There are some exceptions.) -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 28 03:02:01 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 22:02:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Microsoft squeezing virtualization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50602.207.188.65.57.1172631721.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Microsoft has taken a number of actions that seem to make it harder to use > non-MS virtualization products: > http://www.vmware.com/solutions/whitepapers/msoft_licensing_wp.html > Remember that comparison of cars to software? Something like cars would get zillions of miles to the gallon if they had made the same advances as software. Continuing that analogy, if Microsoft made cars, the EULA would specify that the car could be repossessed if you used non-Microsoft gasoline in it. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 28 05:19:23 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 00:19:23 -0500 Subject: funny hard drive "activity" In-Reply-To: <1e55af990702161944k7b55fa5ue09e8e202cefb987-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990702160630j2307d246vd1b29f174462ec98@mail.gmail.com> <20070216150023.GD7583@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990702160754w4b726e6etdb0ea06b3b5a30d4@mail.gmail.com> <45D61BE3.6090104@utoronto.ca> <1e55af990702161944k7b55fa5ue09e8e202cefb987@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990702272119r28aa1f65waed88d2e025b17f7@mail.gmail.com> It looks like gam_server [1] is the culprit. And maybe the settings are aggressive. /etc/gamin/gaminrc has: #fsset ext3 none poll /* So I suppose the problem turned out to be my distribution's use of it.. [1] http://www.gnome.org/~veillard/gamin/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 28 14:36:52 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 09:36:52 -0500 Subject: Can't Write to External Drive From User Account In-Reply-To: <20070227200757.993ff67d.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070225212616.18dbc59b.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070226180200.GO22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070226172814.d320f4aa.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070227145636.GP22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070227113817.69ee6063.gstrom@teksavvy.com> <20070227200757.993ff67d.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20070228143652.GQ22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 27, 2007 at 08:07:57PM -0500, Glen Strom wrote: > I thought I must have forgotten something. It is an ext3 file system, > and I was changing the permissions without first mounting the drive. > After I mounted it, the change worked, but not without an unexpected > side effect (unexpected by me, anyway). > > When I first changed the permissions, I removed the executable flag > because the drive is for backup purposes only: > > rw- rw- r-- root disk > > I could not access /mnt/usbdrive1 from my user account. It would only > work when I included the executable flag for both root and group. > > rwx rwx r-- root disk > > I don't know why that is, but anyway, everything seems to work ok now. The execute bit is used to control directory access on directories. No execute means you can't look up filenames in the directory, although you can still access files if you know their names already. A directory needs read and execute access for a user to have any kind of normal sane access to it. You can mount with noexec instead if that is what you want, since that prevents people running binaries from there, but doesn't prevent access to directories. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 28 14:43:09 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 09:43:09 -0500 Subject: Microsoft squeezing virtualization In-Reply-To: <50602.207.188.65.57.1172631721.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50602.207.188.65.57.1172631721.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20070228144309.GR22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 27, 2007 at 10:02:01PM -0500, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Remember that comparison of cars to software? Something like cars would > get zillions of miles to the gallon if they had made the same advances as > software. > > Continuing that analogy, if Microsoft made cars, the EULA would specify > that the car could be repossessed if you used non-Microsoft gasoline in > it. Of course you can't compare software and cars. I can copy the bits in a software program trivially. I can't copy a car without a lot of work and materials. Software can operate entirely self contained in many cases. Cars need input of fuel from outside sources, needs access to roads from other sources, and needs to get along with other vehicles on those roads, most of which are from other sources. Cars also have lots of rules applied to them that manufacturers and operators must follow, while software can do whatever it wants. The concept of comparing them simply makes no sense. And it is NOT software that has made advancements. It is computer hardware. Now that you can try and compare to cars since it too is a lot of work to copy. In many ways software really hasn't advanced at all, rather the opposite. It has gotten big, bloated, and inefficient, because the computer hardware has gotten so good that programmers don't have any incentive in writing efficient code. To some extent the internet has also made it easier to get away with selling bad software since you can easily distribute patches and updates, where in the past it had better be right when you shipped it since most users wouldn't be able to get patches for it if it didn't work right. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 28 15:15:04 2007 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:15:04 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Fwd:Movie Night at TLUG? In-Reply-To: References: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <5bef4baf0702271129t75c1d43dr757bba181e302aff@mail.gmail.com> <57897.216.13.71.74.1172614073.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> <50902.207.188.65.57.1172617706.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: Hi all. I've got the DVD as well; I show it to my intro to Linux classes at IBM all the time. If you want to borrow it for a LUG meeting, let me know. Interesting thing about the DVD is it is region 0 (no CSS encryption). I bet that was one of the conditions on which Richard Stallman participated. It should be viewable in any Linux distro without the CSS libraries. The movie also comes with a second DVD with stills, outtakes from the interviews, and some GNU documentation on it. pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Registered Linux user #2065 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 28 15:19:43 2007 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:19:43 -0500 Subject: NewTLUG CUPS Presentation on line Message-ID: Hi Everyone. For those people who were at last night's NewTLUG presentation on CUPS, I've put my presentation slides up on http://www.mora.ca (in PDF format). If you want the OpenOffice.org source, send me an email. pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Registered Linux user #2065 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 28 15:18:19 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:18:19 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Fwd:Movie Night at TLUG? In-Reply-To: References: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <5bef4baf0702271129t75c1d43dr757bba181e302aff@mail.gmail.com> <57897.216.13.71.74.1172614073.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> <50902.207.188.65.57.1172617706.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20070228151819.GS22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 28, 2007 at 10:15:04AM -0500, Paul Mora wrote: > I've got the DVD as well; I show it to my intro to Linux classes at > IBM all the time. If you want to borrow it for a LUG meeting, let me > know. > > Interesting thing about the DVD is it is region 0 (no CSS encryption). > I bet that was one of the conditions on which Richard Stallman > participated. It should be viewable in any Linux distro without the > CSS libraries. Region 0 doesn't mean no encryption necesarily. Although I suspect in this case it may in fact also have no encryption. > The movie also comes with a second DVD with stills, outtakes from the > interviews, and some GNU documentation on it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 28 15:48:25 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:48:25 -0500 Subject: Revolution OS In-Reply-To: <45E33381.9040502-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1172477342.14229.111.camel@stan64.site> <200702261343.24285.mervc@eol.ca> <45E33381.9040502@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200702281048.26094.mervc@eol.ca> On Monday 26 February 2007 14:22, James Knott wrote: > > Well I took my pronunciation from Peanuts - and we all know what a > > reference that is. > > Leanuts??? ;-) > > -- No I think Line-uts -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 28 16:30:46 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 11:30:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: Movie Night at TLUG? In-Reply-To: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: | From: | How about this for a TLUG meeting? We could each throw a couple of bucks | into the pot, buy the DVD, and then show it at a meeting. Technically, this violates copyright as I understand it. Owning a DVD does not give you the "public presentation" right or "exhibition rights" (perhaps this only applies for works created after 1988 June 8). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 28 16:52:59 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 11:52:59 -0500 Subject: Movie Night at TLUG? In-Reply-To: References: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <45E5B36B.4050008@utoronto.ca> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: > > | How about this for a TLUG meeting? We could each throw a couple of bucks > | into the pot, buy the DVD, and then show it at a meeting. > > Technically, this violates copyright as I understand it. > > Owning a DVD does not give you the "public presentation" right or > "exhibition rights" (perhaps this only applies for works created after > 1988 June 8). But in an academic setting, such as the Galbraith building at U of T, and without collecting any money, I think scholarly fair use applies. That and it was shown to a group of TLUG members this summer (10-15 I think) with nary a whimper about infringement. As Paul Mora mentioned, educational fair use covers exhibition where we are concerned I think. If 20-30 members each pitched in $1 to buy a copy and TLUG was the owner of the copy, what then? The best way to do it though would be to contact Mr. Moore, and get him to come give a talk at the May 8 meeting. Maybe if 30-50 members each pitched in $10-20 dollars we could buy him a plane ticket and hotel room. It isn't much. Or maybe we could dip into the membership fund to subsidize a portion? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 28 17:35:07 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 17:35:07 +0000 Subject: NewTLUG CUPS Presentation on line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2/28/07, Paul Mora wrote: > For those people who were at last night's NewTLUG presentation on > CUPS, I've put my presentation slides up on http://www.mora.ca (in PDF > format). I have added a page on CUPS that links to: - The slides - The meeting page - The CUPS web site And have taken the liberty of putting links to the CUPS page in the meeting page as well as the resources page... Feel free to improve as needed... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 28 17:54:42 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 17:54:42 +0000 Subject: [TLUG-BOARD]: Wiki Updates In-Reply-To: <20070224213952.844C391FE4-LUOcaToN/7Qa23XkYYEGGdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20070224213952.844C391FE4@xprdmxin.myway.com> Message-ID: On 2/24/07, qwerty172-wzCN7aUSXSrQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org wrote: > I think this should be approached in a different way. I suggest that we start by soliciting >ideas of what people would like to see on the resource page from the mailing list. After >such a list is made available try to get people from the list to contribute to the >resource. > The approach should be democratized so that those who are interested in writing >about topics are given the opportunity to do so instead of trying to get volnteers to >write about topics we feel are worthy of writing about. > > Just a thought. Wikis are decidedly very democratic that way. Indeed, they're arguably even a bit more "anarchic" than that; people are generally pretty free to add whatever they like irrespective of what others might want to impose. And that seems pretty OK to me. Thanks, Sy, for turning on the ability to update the Resources page ; that makes it pretty easy to have a terse set of links to resources that seem of interest. People will notice on that page that there are Wiki pages for each of the following topics: * Consultants * Linux distributions * MythTV * LTSP * X Window System and running either apps or X itself atop OpenGL * Linux Kernel * Linux Networking and configuration * Mozilla (Firefox, Thunderbird, ...) * OpenOffice.org * GIMP * SAMBA * Databases: PostgreSQL * Accounting: LedgerSMB * Spamassassin * CUPS - Common UNIX Printing System And for each, I have tried to set up links in between the respective topics and: a) Some well-known public resources for the component; b) Meetings we may have held on the topic c) Local resources on the topic There are several additional topics that don't have a page sitting behind them; if anyone feels those should be "further detailed," feel free to do so. If there are things that there are local experts on that are NOT on that list, it would doubtless be a keen thing to enhance the list and the wiki accordingly. Feel free. I haven't done many links to HOWTO documents; if there are ones that are good, feel free to add them. (If there are BAD HOWTO documents, feel free *not* to link to them :-).) The point of this is to try to have some useful links about Linux, particularly some links to *local* resources so that if someone is looking for assistance, they can find something that's better than merely searching for a HOWTO out on the Internet. If this is merely "Chris's set of listed resources," that's not of all that much value. If there is a reasonably rich set of contributors to these resources, then it will become of rather more considerable value. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 28 19:36:57 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 14:35:57 +1859 Subject: Movie Night at TLUG? In-Reply-To: <45E5B36B.4050008-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <50522.207.188.65.57.1172542578.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <45E5B36B.4050008@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420702281136p28817804v7f02d7d638f03229@mail.gmail.com> > The best way to do it though would be to contact Mr. Moore, and get him > to come give a talk at the May 8 meeting. Maybe if 30-50 members each > pitched in $10-20 dollars we could buy him a plane ticket and hotel > room. It isn't much. Or maybe we could dip into the membership fund to > subsidize a portion? Ten to twenty dollars for a speaker sounds like an awesome idea! I'd contribute. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists