From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 1 12:14:14 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 08:14:14 -0400 Subject: Hardware compatibility: NVIDIA Nforce 570 Ultra MCP and SATA In-Reply-To: <20070730214837.GC20906-RS9mMug8cEdeEBsGXKxUuhXIDzx3rGmiQFUY5ocGksJFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <46AB5838.1050109@pppoe.ca> <46AB5D4E.5040807@utoronto.ca> <46AB9839.8070100@pppoe.ca> <46ABA68C.4080400@utoronto.ca> <20070730173310.GA20906@glucose-fructose.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46AE3760.5000905@pppoe.ca> <20070730214837.GC20906@glucose-fructose.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <46B07916.8090900@pppoe.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > My sister's machine has had 1GB of PC6400 Platinum from OCZ since xmas, > and so far it has run flawlessly. I got the OCZ since it was lifetime > warrenty, PC6400 CL4, and had the lowest price after the mail in rebate. > I often buy crucial, corsair, or kingston as well. > > It isn't worth buying generic ram anymore given the small price > difference. When I used to buy generic ram, often it didn't perform at > the spec it claimed to. > > I was using generic RAM, then switched to Kingston. OCZ looks good, good reviews and prices. Thanks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 1 19:16:40 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 19:16:40 +0000 Subject: About openoffice.org styles Message-ID: I was doing an upgrade and noticed some "style" packages scrolling past. Dependancies tend to draw in the following packages: cbbrowne at dba2:/home/cbbrowne $ dpkg -l | grep openoffice | grep style ii openoffice.org-style-andromeda 2.2.1-7 Default symbol style for OpenOffice.org ii openoffice.org-style-crystal 2.2.1-7 Crystal symbol style for OpenOffice.org ii openoffice.org-style-hicontrast 2.2.1-7 Hicontrast symbol style for OpenOffice.org ii openoffice.org-style-industrial 2.2.1-7 Industrial symbol style for OpenOffice.org ii openoffice.org-style-tango 2.2.1-7 Tango symbol style for OpenOffice.org Looking inside: cbbrowne at dba2:/home/cbbrowne $ dpkg -L openoffice.org-style-tango /. /usr /usr/lib /usr/lib/openoffice /usr/lib/openoffice/share /usr/lib/openoffice/share/config /usr/lib/openoffice/share/config/images_tango.zip /usr/share /usr/share/doc /usr/share/doc/openoffice.org-style-tango /usr/share/doc/openoffice.org-style-tango/changelog.Debian.gz /usr/share/doc/openoffice.org-style-tango/NEWS.Debian.gz /usr/share/doc/openoffice.org-style-tango/copyright /usr/share/doc/openoffice.org-style-tango/changelog.gz /usr/share/doc/openoffice.org-style-tango/README.gz /usr/share/doc/openoffice.org-style-tango/README.Debian.gz cbbrowne at dba2:/home/cbbrowne $ The interesting file is the .zip file; what is lacking is any indication as to how to activate one or another of these sets of images. A googling for this finds neither documentation nor mailing list reports. I tried unzipping one of the files in that directory (as root); that didn't seem to have any interesting effect. Are these "styles" useless, or does anyone know how to use them? -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 2 16:09:26 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 09:09:26 -0700 Subject: About openoffice.org styles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3a97ef0708020909r7acb0897kf1cea6c01070047a@mail.gmail.com> I assume you're a Ubuntu (or Debian/unstable) user, since I can't find those packages on Debian/stable I can't test those styles, but I did find this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/99760 from menu Tools -> Options-> View Here you can select style, like Human, Industrial. But styles Tango, High-contrast are available also, even if the corresponding packages aren't installed, thats a bit confusing There are styles in my version, but just the boring ones (Automatic, Default, HiContrast, Industrial, Crystal). On 8/1/07, Christopher Browne wrote: > I was doing an upgrade and noticed some "style" packages scrolling past. > > Dependancies tend to draw in the following packages: > cbbrowne at dba2:/home/cbbrowne $ dpkg -l | grep openoffice | grep style > ii openoffice.org-style-andromeda 2.2.1-7 > Default symbol style for OpenOffice.org > ii openoffice.org-style-crystal 2.2.1-7 > Crystal symbol style for OpenOffice.org > ii openoffice.org-style-hicontrast 2.2.1-7 > Hicontrast symbol style for OpenOffice.org > ii openoffice.org-style-industrial 2.2.1-7 > Industrial symbol style for OpenOffice.org > ii openoffice.org-style-tango 2.2.1-7 > Tango symbol style for OpenOffice.org > > Looking inside: > cbbrowne at dba2:/home/cbbrowne $ dpkg -L openoffice.org-style-tango > /. > /usr > /usr/lib > /usr/lib/openoffice > /usr/lib/openoffice/share > /usr/lib/openoffice/share/config > /usr/lib/openoffice/share/config/images_tango.zip > /usr/share > /usr/share/doc > /usr/share/doc/openoffice.org-style-tango > /usr/share/doc/openoffice.org-style-tango/changelog.Debian.gz > /usr/share/doc/openoffice.org-style-tango/NEWS.Debian.gz > /usr/share/doc/openoffice.org-style-tango/copyright > /usr/share/doc/openoffice.org-style-tango/changelog.gz > /usr/share/doc/openoffice.org-style-tango/README.gz > /usr/share/doc/openoffice.org-style-tango/README.Debian.gz > cbbrowne at dba2:/home/cbbrowne $ > > The interesting file is the .zip file; what is lacking is any > indication as to how to activate one or another of these sets of > images. > > A googling for this finds neither documentation nor mailing list reports. > > I tried unzipping one of the files in that directory (as root); that > didn't seem to have any interesting effect. > > Are these "styles" useless, or does anyone know how to use them? > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." > (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 2 16:33:42 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 16:33:42 +0000 Subject: About openoffice.org styles In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0708020909r7acb0897kf1cea6c01070047a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0708020909r7acb0897kf1cea6c01070047a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 8/2/07, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I assume you're a Ubuntu (or Debian/unstable) user, since I can't find > those packages on Debian/stable I can't test those styles, but I did > find this: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/99760 > > from menu Tools -> Options-> View > Here you can select style, like Human, Industrial. But styles Tango, > High-contrast are available also, even if the corresponding packages > aren't installed, thats a bit confusing > > There are styles in my version, but just the boring ones (Automatic, > Default, HiContrast, Industrial, Crystal). OK, searching that dialog box finally found them, thanks! The additional "icon styles" aren't *all* that more exciting; they are barely visible if you're using the small size. I'm a bit underwhelmed, but at least I know now :-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 2 18:52:21 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 14:52:21 -0400 Subject: scripting help Message-ID: <20070802185221.GB23877@watson-wilson.ca> I want to check, in a script, for a file or files that are less than x number of days old. If those conditions are met then do something. I had something like this in mind: find ${TOMCAT}build/backup -iname "*war_????????-????" \ -mtime -$BACKUPAGE || echo "No files found!" However, I believe that if find encounters any errors, like permission denied, the exit value would change and the test would fail. Can someone suggest a better way? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 25 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 2 19:27:57 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 15:27:57 -0400 Subject: scripting help In-Reply-To: <20070802185221.GB23877-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070802185221.GB23877@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <22e435080708021227o71f2264clec8223a549f54204@mail.gmail.com> On 8/2/07, Neil Watson wrote: > I want to check, in a script, for a file or files that are less than x > number of days old. If those conditions are met then do something. I > had something like this in mind: > > find ${TOMCAT}build/backup -iname "*war_????????-????" \ > -mtime -$BACKUPAGE || echo "No files found!" > > However, I believe that if find encounters any errors, like permission > denied, the exit value would change and the test would fail. > > Can someone suggest a better way? > I really like tmpreaper but not sure it fits this situation, I just use it is blow stuff away not actually "do stuff". SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 2 19:31:48 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 15:31:48 -0400 Subject: scripting help In-Reply-To: <22e435080708021227o71f2264clec8223a549f54204-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070802185221.GB23877@watson-wilson.ca> <22e435080708021227o71f2264clec8223a549f54204@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070802193148.GC23877@watson-wilson.ca> On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 03:27:57PM -0400, Sheldon Mustard wrote: >I really like tmpreaper but not sure it fits this situation, I just >use it is blow stuff away not actually "do stuff". I don't want to remove files. If it did I'd do something like find /path -type f -atime +30 -exec rm -f {} \; That was not my question. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 25 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 2 19:33:53 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 15:33:53 -0400 Subject: scripting help In-Reply-To: <20070802185221.GB23877-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070802185221.GB23877@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070802193353.GA14083@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 02:52:21PM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > I want to check, in a script, for a file or files that are less than x > number of days old. If those conditions are met then do something. I > had something like this in mind: > > find ${TOMCAT}build/backup -iname "*war_????????-????" \ > -mtime -$BACKUPAGE || echo "No files found!" > > However, I believe that if find encounters any errors, like permission > denied, the exit value would change and the test would fail. > > Can someone suggest a better way? You just want to know if there are some or not? change '|| echo ...' to '| wc -l' Simple, then check if the result is 0 or higher. Or use |grep -q '.' || echo ... If grep sees anything, it returns true, otherwise it returns false. No files means no output so nothing for grep to match on. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 2 20:31:02 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 13:31:02 -0700 Subject: scripting help In-Reply-To: <20070802185221.GB23877-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070802185221.GB23877@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0708021331m57a386acp3a001aeff9ac59a6@mail.gmail.com> How about this? if [ $( find ${TOMCAT}build/backup -iname "*war_????????-????" -mtime -${BACKUPAGE} 2>/dev/null | wc -l ) -gt 0 ] ; then echo "I will do something now"; fi On 8/2/07, Neil Watson wrote: > I want to check, in a script, for a file or files that are less than x > number of days old. If those conditions are met then do something. I > had something like this in mind: > > find ${TOMCAT}build/backup -iname "*war_????????-????" \ > -mtime -$BACKUPAGE || echo "No files found!" > > However, I believe that if find encounters any errors, like permission > denied, the exit value would change and the test would fail. > > Can someone suggest a better way? > > -- > Neil Watson | Debian Linux > System Administrator | Uptime 25 days > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 3 12:08:36 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 08:08:36 -0400 Subject: New Computer Thread Back in March Message-ID: <46B31AC4.7070506@utoronto.ca> Back in March I asked a question about computers that were quiet like the new iMacs. I was looking for computers with smart power supplies that would turn off their fans when the computer went to sleep. It is my considered opinion that Apple's iMac design is entirely unique. It is basically a laptop stuffed behind an LCD screen. I suspect that Apple's iMacs do not have power supply fans. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 3 13:48:49 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 09:48:49 -0400 Subject: New Computer Thread Back in March In-Reply-To: <46B31AC4.7070506-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <46B31AC4.7070506@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070803134849.GB14083@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 03, 2007 at 08:08:36AM -0400, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Back in March I asked a question about computers that were quiet like > the new iMacs. I was looking for computers with smart power supplies > that would turn off their fans when the computer went to sleep. > > It is my considered opinion that Apple's iMac design is entirely unique. > It is basically a laptop stuffed behind an LCD screen. I suspect that > Apple's iMacs do not have power supply fans. It is quite possible to make a computer with fans that is quiet. The one I built last December for my sister is so quiet that I have to check the power light to make sure I turned it on when I do anything on it. Not bad given it has a power supply fan, 2 case fans, a cpu fan and 2 harddrives running. It is all about choosing the right components if you want quiet. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 3 13:56:31 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 09:56:31 -0400 Subject: New Computer Thread Back in March In-Reply-To: <20070803134849.GB14083-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <46B31AC4.7070506@utoronto.ca> <20070803134849.GB14083@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <46B3340F.1090401@utoronto.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 03, 2007 at 08:08:36AM -0400, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: >> Back in March I asked a question about computers that were quiet like >> the new iMacs. I was looking for computers with smart power supplies >> that would turn off their fans when the computer went to sleep. >> >> It is my considered opinion that Apple's iMac design is entirely unique. >> It is basically a laptop stuffed behind an LCD screen. I suspect that >> Apple's iMacs do not have power supply fans. > > It is quite possible to make a computer with fans that is quiet. The > one I built last December for my sister is so quiet that I have to check > the power light to make sure I turned it on when I do anything on it. > Not bad given it has a power supply fan, 2 case fans, a cpu fan and 2 > harddrives running. It is all about choosing the right components if > you want quiet. Thanks for the heads up, I'll have to consider this next time I'm considering a new computer. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 3 14:08:24 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 10:08:24 -0400 Subject: New Computer Thread Back in March In-Reply-To: <46B3340F.1090401-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <46B31AC4.7070506@utoronto.ca> <20070803134849.GB14083@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46B3340F.1090401@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070803140824.GC14083@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 03, 2007 at 09:56:31AM -0400, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Thanks for the heads up, I'll have to consider this next time I'm > considering a new computer. I can tell you in this case the key was using a Silverstone TJ04 case, and a silverstone power supply (about 400W or so). The fans in the silverstone power supplies and their cases are amazingly quiet. The 5mm solid aluminum front on the case, and the rather solid steel sides help dampen noise too. The drives are WD SATA drives, which I find to be some of the quietest drives around. The stock cpu fan for the Core 2 6400 also seems to be quiet enough. A cheap flimsy case and a cheap power supply, will make a ton of noise. Cheap cases will have the sides amplifying any noise made in the computer as well as by any vibrations. I have also noticed many add in case fans can be rather noisy, especially after a few months when the sleeve bearings start to die. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 3 14:29:20 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 10:29:20 -0400 Subject: New Computer Thread Back in March In-Reply-To: <20070803140824.GC14083-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <46B31AC4.7070506@utoronto.ca> <20070803134849.GB14083@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46B3340F.1090401@utoronto.ca> <20070803140824.GC14083@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <46B33BC0.7070502@utoronto.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 03, 2007 at 09:56:31AM -0400, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: >> Thanks for the heads up, I'll have to consider this next time I'm >> considering a new computer. > > I can tell you in this case the key was using a Silverstone TJ04 case, > and a silverstone power supply (about 400W or so). The fans in the > silverstone power supplies and their cases are amazingly quiet. The 5mm > solid aluminum front on the case, and the rather solid steel sides help > dampen noise too. The drives are WD SATA drives, which I find to be > some of the quietest drives around. The stock cpu fan for the Core 2 > 6400 also seems to be quiet enough. A cheap flimsy case and a cheap > power supply, will make a ton of noise. Cheap cases will have the sides > amplifying any noise made in the computer as well as by any vibrations. > I have also noticed many add in case fans can be rather noisy, > especially after a few months when the sleeve bearings start to die. Antec Sonata II or III are good cases as well, and their 450W PSUs are quiet with multiple variable speed fans. I can hear the heads move on my one WD SATA drive when the computer is running, can't hear a thing with my RAIDed Seagates. No fan noise at all either, just a faint whooshing of air :) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 3 15:43:04 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 11:43:04 -0400 Subject: New Computer Thread Back in March In-Reply-To: <46B33BC0.7070502-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <46B31AC4.7070506@utoronto.ca> <20070803134849.GB14083@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46B3340F.1090401@utoronto.ca> <20070803140824.GC14083@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46B33BC0.7070502@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070803154304.GD14083@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 03, 2007 at 10:29:20AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Antec Sonata II or III are good cases as well, and their 450W PSUs are > quiet with multiple variable speed fans. I can hear the heads move on my > one WD SATA drive when the computer is running, can't hear a thing with > my RAIDed Seagates. No fan noise at all either, just a faint whooshing > of air :) I find the build quality much higher on the silverstone than the antec. Some of the antec's seem much too expensive for what you get. Well and I think the silverstone's are prettier. :) I do like antec's power supplies though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 3 22:12:50 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 18:12:50 -0400 Subject: [OT]: Anyone experienced with submitting RFC's to the IETF? Message-ID: <99a6c38f0708031512w786507d6r4435ea5a18c180c3@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I've been considering an idea for an RFC proposal to the Internet Engineering Task Force. In a nutshell, the idea revolves around providing Basic Auth authentication credentials using a login interface similar to sites that just use cookies. It's convenient to supply a username and password before "submitting," or clicking the login button, but cookie-based authentication just sucks compared to BasicAuth+SSL. I'm now in a position where I'm trying to help the organizers of Toronto Startup Weekend but am faced with problems reminiscent of those with my former employer. Obviously an RFC submission won't be processed in anywhere near the time that I need it, but I'd still like to pursue the matter. If there's anyone out there who's been involved with an IETF RFC submission, I'd really appreciate hearing from you. Thanks! - Scott. -- Scott Elcomb [ http://www.psema4.com/ ] "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 3 22:24:57 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 18:24:57 -0400 Subject: [OT]: Who owns the robots.txt "protocol?" In-Reply-To: <20070731184602.GD20906-RS9mMug8cEdeEBsGXKxUuhXIDzx3rGmiQFUY5ocGksJFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0707301849o57109057ta0eb4ce81a8ed9cd@mail.gmail.com> <20070731184602.GD20906@glucose-fructose.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0708031524s2a9767d6of5a6eaba3c44aff5@mail.gmail.com> On 7/31/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jul 30, 2007 at 09:49:52PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > Did I miss something, or is it just in the wording? > Well I think robots.txt was designed to support new tags, which other > robots are allowed to ignore if they don't understand, so probably > nothing wrong with google saying 'our bot now supports these additional > tags'. I'm going to write this one off as a wording / lack-of-sleep issue. :-) I can't help myself thinking about M$ anytime some company comes along and says "We've added this to the protocol!" If it's a standards body, ok. But if it's "just a corporation..." I guess I see Protocol's as being different from the bots that use them. ;-) In any event, thanks for your response! Take care, - Scott. -- Scott Elcomb [ http://www.psema4.com/ ] "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 3 23:43:21 2007 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 23:43:21 +0000 Subject: How to deal with errant tablet manufacturers Message-ID: <1186184601.5944.13.camel@ubuntu> Hey everyone, Just wanted to check how the people on this list have dealt with this problem, as I'm sure I'm not the only one who's run into something like this. The short end of the story is that I purchased a tablet from Electrovaya in November, and I've had problems with it for the past 6 months. I was told to my face this afternoon that my request that it not shut off spontaneously was "ridiculous" and that I didn't understand battery technology. From what I can tell, they have no intention of honouring the warranty or doing anything beyond replacing the batteries (which they've already done, to no avail - they aren't the source of the problem). Basically, I feel I've been sold a lemon. Any advice on how to deal with these guys? Thanks in advance, -kms === The full story if anyone's interested. First off the symptoms: when the battery gets below 20%, it'll either turn right off or the screen will go blank with no hope of it coming back, even after plugging the unit in. From what I can tell, you have to start with a full battery and run it down to that point, so it may be heat-related. I've always been able to reproduce this problem. At first they suspected the battery, so I ordered a new battery to test the theory as I was on a trip and couldn't afford to lose the tablet. The new battery did the same thing. So I returned the unit after I got back into the country, about 4 weeks ago. Since then, they've claimed that both the new and old battery were defective and gave me two new ones. I only got these last Wednesday. I tested it right away that night, and the same thing happened again. They have yet to reproduce the problem at their facility, but at the same time they have never followed the instructions I gave them. So now we're at a stalemate. I claim that I can reproduce the problem, and that I'll demonstrate it to them on Tuesday. They claim that there isn't a problem and that I'm just whining about battery performance (not true: the batteries work well, I just can't deal with an unreliable system). If they don't pony up on Tuesday, what are my options? Can I take this to some other power? Threaten legal action of some sort? Or am I forced to live with this crap and bitterly complain whenever anyone asks about my tablet? Thanks again for any and all advice! Kareem Shehata kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 3 23:46:14 2007 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 23:46:14 +0000 Subject: [OT]: Anyone experienced with submitting RFC's to the IETF? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0708031512w786507d6r4435ea5a18c180c3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0708031512w786507d6r4435ea5a18c180c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1186184774.5944.16.camel@ubuntu> On Fri, 2007-08-03 at 18:12 -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been considering an idea for an RFC proposal to the Internet > Engineering Task Force. In a nutshell, the idea revolves around > providing Basic Auth authentication credentials using a login > interface similar to sites that just use cookies. I've had a few ideas for different internet technologies but haven't gotten them to the point of an RFC. I'd be really curious to hear how it goes. Would you mind keeping us updated (provided no one else has a problem with that) or pointing me to a blog of some sort? Thanks! -kms Kareem Shehata kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 4 01:11:11 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 21:11:11 -0400 Subject: How to deal with errant tablet manufacturers In-Reply-To: <1186184601.5944.13.camel@ubuntu> References: <1186184601.5944.13.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: <46B3D22F.6020308@rogers.com> Kareem Shehata wrote: > If they don't pony up on Tuesday, what are my options? Can I take > this to some other power? Threaten legal action of some sort? Or am > I forced to live with this crap and bitterly complain whenever anyone > asks about my tablet? > Well, there's always the small claims court. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 4 11:17:57 2007 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 07:17:57 -0400 Subject: How to deal with errant tablet manufacturers In-Reply-To: <1186184601.5944.13.camel@ubuntu> References: <1186184601.5944.13.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: Hey Kareem, I've have similar problems in the past with a different piece of hardware. The support wouldn't do anything past reboot unplug update firmware. The best advice I can give you is to contact the company's customer relations departement, explain the problem in simple terms with how long it's been going on. Suggest that you would not recommend the product to anyone and so far your view of the company is very negative. Also mention that you feel they haven't honered their warrenty agreement and if nothing is done you will contact the better business bureau. That has always provided me with positive results in the past. Let me know how it goes! Martin Hey everyone, Just wanted to check how the people on this list have dealt with this problem, as I'm sure I'm not the only one who's run into something like this. The short end of the story is that I purchased a tablet from Electrovaya in November, and I've had problems with it for the past 6 months. I was told to my face this afternoon that my request that it not shut off spontaneously was "ridiculous" and that I didn't understand battery technology. From what I can tell, they have no intention of honouring the warranty or doing anything beyond replacing the batteries (which they've already done, to no avail - they aren't the source of the problem). Basically, I feel I've been sold a lemon. Any advice on how to deal with these guys? Thanks in advance, -kms === The full story if anyone's interested. First off the symptoms: when the battery gets below 20%, it'll either turn right off or the screen will go blank with no hope of it coming back, even after plugging the unit in. From what I can tell, you have to start with a full battery and run it down to that point, so it may be heat-related. I've always been able to reproduce this problem. At first they suspected the battery, so I ordered a new battery to test the theory as I was on a trip and couldn't afford to lose the tablet. The new battery did the same thing. So I returned the unit after I got back into the country, about 4 weeks ago. Since then, they've claimed that both the new and old battery were defective and gave me two new ones. I only got these last Wednesday. I tested it right away that night, and the same thing happened again. They have yet to reproduce the problem at their facility, but at the same time they have never followed the instructions I gave them. So now we're at a stalemate. I claim that I can reproduce the problem, and that I'll demonstrate it to them on Tuesday. They claim that there isn't a problem and that I'm just whining about battery performance (not true: the batteries work well, I just can't deal with an unreliable system). If they don't pony up on Tuesday, what are my options? Can I take this to some other power? Threaten legal action of some sort? Or am I forced to live with this crap and bitterly complain whenever anyone asks about my tablet? Thanks again for any and all advice! Kareem Shehata kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org _________________________________________________________________ Former Police Officer Paul Gillespie??s TAKE BACK THE INTERNET tips and tricks, watch the video now http://safety.sympatico.msn.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 4 13:06:43 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 09:06:43 -0400 Subject: learning the correct gcc to use Message-ID: <1e55af990708040606rfdc77cdweaa44cdb473c5f54@mail.gmail.com> How can I tell what version of gcc was used to build the software for a particular linux instance? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 5 03:36:36 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 23:36:36 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu/Kubuntu w/ Rotating Box? In-Reply-To: <46A6DDF1.2090003-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <46A55A21.80708@alteeve.com> <46A68CA2.9020301@rogers.com> <20070724235142.GA16428@oldeddie.dapayne.no-ip.org> <46A6DDF1.2090003@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070804233636.4eb38db7@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Evan Leibovitch left a post-it on the fridge: > David Payne wrote: > > > Compiz Fusion is the best (That I have > > [...] > > > > I no longer use it because it drove me nuts. > > Good to know I'm not alone. After a few weeks of trying > Beryl/Compiz/etc. I too turned it off. The animation of 'turning the > cube' actually slowed the existing process of moving between virtual > desktops, which Linux users have taken for granted for many years. > Transparent screens and windows that drag across the screen like jello > blobs lose their novelty quickly, and I simply don't see the functional > advantage. I don't use the cube either, but Beryl does provide what is, for me, the greatest map of my running applications ever: Scale. Whipping my mouse up to the top right of the screen and instantly seeing thumbnails of all my open apps is way cool. The animations and transparency and such do not provide anything in the strictly utilitarian sense, but they do give a nice feeling of depth and presence to the desktop, in my opinion anyhow. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "Aw, poor baby, chipped a fang." -Leela "Hey, I got a busted ass here! I don't see anyone kissing it." -Bender "All right, I'm coming." -Zoidberg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 5 05:05:26 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 01:05:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: How to deal with errant tablet manufacturers In-Reply-To: <1186184601.5944.13.camel@ubuntu> References: <1186184601.5944.13.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: | From: Kareem Shehata [Please use plain text for messages you send to the list, not HTML.] | Just wanted to check how the people on this list have dealt with this | problem, as I'm sure I'm not the only one who's run into something like | this. Tough problem. | The short end of the story is that I purchased a tablet from | Electrovaya in November, and I've had problems with it for the past 6 | months. I don't know that brand (I have heard its name, but that is about it). I take it you ordered this -- you did not order it from a local store. | First off the symptoms: when the battery gets below 20%, it'll either | turn right off or the screen will go blank with no hope of it coming | back, even after plugging the unit in. Perhaps your battery isn't callibrated. As I understand it, your software (BIOS?) may need to experiment to discover the voltage curve of your particular battery. It may well be that the batter has been exhausted while the system thinks there is still 20% capacity left. Do check if there is a BIOS update too. It might affect power management. | From what I can tell, you have | to start with a full battery and run it down to that point, so it may be | heat-related. I've always been able to reproduce this problem. Can you replicate it while the computer is on a laptop cooler of some kind? Can you replicate the problem in MS Windows (I presume that it came preloaded with Windows)? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 5 05:20:25 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 01:20:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: learning the correct gcc to use In-Reply-To: <1e55af990708040606rfdc77cdweaa44cdb473c5f54-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990708040606rfdc77cdweaa44cdb473c5f54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Sy Ali | How can I tell what version of gcc was used to build the software for | a particular linux instance? What is a Linux instance? On my Red Hat Linux, Fedora, and Ubuntu systems, /proc/version give some hints about how the kernel was compiled. Here's an example from this computer, running RHL7.0: Linux version 2.2.24-7.0.3 (bhcompile-d4vMwLtd9+JexYj40xR8/dvLeJWuRmrY at public.gmane.org) (gcc version egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)) #1 Fri Mar 14 08:18:18 EST 2003 Is that what you wanted to know? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 5 10:40:44 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 06:40:44 -0400 Subject: learning the correct gcc to use In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990708040606rfdc77cdweaa44cdb473c5f54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990708050340p25a6a266g9e933911dab91dcc@mail.gmail.com> On 8/5/07, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Sy Ali > > | How can I tell what version of gcc was used to build the software for > | a particular linux instance? > > What is a Linux instance? A random installation of unknown origin. =) > On my Red Hat Linux, Fedora, and Ubuntu systems, /proc/version give > some hints about how the kernel was compiled. Aha, this was what I was looking for, thanks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 5 11:55:55 2007 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 11:55:55 +0000 Subject: How to deal with errant tablet manufacturers In-Reply-To: References: <1186184601.5944.13.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: <1186314955.5711.9.camel@ubuntu> On Sun, 2007-08-05 at 01:05 -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I don't know that brand (I have heard its name, but that is about it). > I take it you ordered this -- you did not order it from a local store. Bought it directly from them, thinking that I was supporting a local manufacturer. > | First off the symptoms: when the battery gets below 20%, it'll either > | turn right off or the screen will go blank with no hope of it coming > | back, even after plugging the unit in. > > Perhaps your battery isn't callibrated. As I understand it, your > software (BIOS?) may need to experiment to discover the voltage curve of > your particular battery. It may well be that the batter has been > exhausted while the system thinks there is still 20% capacity left. > > Do check if there is a BIOS update too. It might affect power > management. I haven't been able to find any BIOS settings affect power, and no upgrades on their website. I would also have expected that if this were the problem, they really should have been able to spot it very quickly in their lab. > | From what I can tell, you have > | to start with a full battery and run it down to that point, so it may be > | heat-related. I've always been able to reproduce this problem. > > Can you replicate it while the computer is on a laptop cooler of some kind? Don't have one of those, but I'm testing in an air conditioned basement while the tablet is on a wirestand. The cooler would probably reduce heat a little, but for actual use there isn't a more ideal situation than this one. How much of a difference do you think that would make, and where might I find one for short-term use? > Can you replicate the problem in MS Windows (I presume that it came > preloaded with Windows)? Yup, I've left the Windows install on there. Thanks! -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 5 12:16:02 2007 From: slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (SlackRat) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 14:16:02 +0200 Subject: learning the correct gcc to use In-Reply-To: (D. Hugh Redelmeier's message of "Sun\, 5 Aug 2007 01\:20\:25 -0400 \(EDT\)") References: <1e55af990708040606rfdc77cdweaa44cdb473c5f54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87643u18jh.fsf@azurservers.com> "D. Hugh Redelmeier" writes: > | From: Sy Ali > > | How can I tell what version of gcc was used to build the software for > | a particular linux instance? > On slack /bin/cat /proc/version works just fine -- SlackRat - No 4Q to Reply - Like the Russkie said of the two leading Soviet Papers: "There ain't no pravada in Izvestia and there ain't no isvestia in Pravda" Pravda = Truth Izvestia = News -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 5 13:01:18 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 09:01:18 -0400 Subject: [OT]: Anyone experienced with submitting RFC's to the IETF? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0708031512w786507d6r4435ea5a18c180c3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0708031512w786507d6r4435ea5a18c180c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46B591DE.17658.BBE803@sciguy.vex.net> > Hi all, > > I've been considering an idea for an RFC proposal to the Internet > Engineering Task Force. In a nutshell, the idea revolves around > providing Basic Auth authentication credentials using a login > interface similar to sites that just use cookies. > > It's convenient to supply a username and password before "submitting," > or clicking the login button, but cookie-based authentication just > sucks compared to BasicAuth+SSL. I think you need to specify the protocol. You mention HTTP and allude to a forms interface, so your title has to mention that. There are many other ways to log into servers, and many kinds of servers, as I am sure your well know. >From the protocols I have had to work with, none of the RFCs were language dependent (not even the ones written by Microsoft). So, I would say that you will have to make your RFC language-independent. Would your protocol cover people who choose to log in using a text-based browser like Lynx? The IETF website should have submission guide-lines. I don't think it's all that difficult. The ones I have seen have a particular header format, and were written in ASCII. Some RFCs had graphics, so they are in PDF. This looks promising: http://www.rfc-editor.org/howtopub.html Good luck Paul King > > I'm now in a position where I'm trying to help the organizers of > Toronto Startup Weekend but am faced with problems reminiscent of > those with my former employer. > > Obviously an RFC submission won't be processed in anywhere near the > time that I need it, but I'd still like to pursue the matter. > > If there's anyone out there who's been involved with an IETF RFC > submission, I'd really appreciate hearing from you. > > Thanks! > - Scott. > > -- > Scott Elcomb [ http://www.psema4.com/ ] > > "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy > rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, > their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that > the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al > Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) > > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin > > '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting > on its shoes." - Mark Twain > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > __________ NOD32 2437 (20070803) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 5 17:02:42 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 13:02:42 -0400 Subject: New Computer Thread Back in March In-Reply-To: <46B33BC0.7070502-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <46B31AC4.7070506@utoronto.ca> <20070803134849.GB14083@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46B3340F.1090401@utoronto.ca> <20070803140824.GC14083@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46B33BC0.7070502@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <46B602B2.1090708@telly.org> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Antec Sonata II or III are good cases as well, and their 450W PSUs are > quiet with multiple variable speed fans. I can hear the heads move on > my one WD SATA drive when the computer is running, can't hear a thing > with my RAIDed Seagates. No fan noise at all either, just a faint > whooshing of air :) I've also had very good luck with the Sonata II; the fan is less distracting than the bright blue LEDs. This case also has a very novel method for keeping the CPU cool. I was told it's actually easier to make a big case quiet (the Sonata is standard "mid-tower" shape) than a small one, as larger fans don't need to turn as fast as small ones to move the same amount of air and it's fan RPM that affects noise more than anything (which is why 1U cases are so noisy). I see there's now a Sonata 3. It's worth a look, and (unlike many cases of this calibre) the power supply and case are sold together for what I'd consider a pretty good combo price. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 5 17:52:24 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 13:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Getting a new LILO boot message Message-ID: <60047.208.72.127.64.1186336344.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> Hi I was wondering if anyone knows of a way to get LILO to show a new boot message. It used to be (IIRC) that you just needed to edit the boot message file (/boot/boot_message.txt) and run LILO. Now it seems to choke when it sees that my /dev/hda1 is on an NT partition, and wants me to somehow change the partition ID. Since this already works as it is, I aborted the command. While running liloconfig doesn't "choke" and is more accepting of the XP partition, it also doesn't seem to change the message to the new one. If anyone can help with this, I would appreciate it. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 6 12:09:13 2007 From: erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Frank) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 08:09:13 -0400 Subject: New Laptop and 802.11 In-Reply-To: <60047.208.72.127.64.1186336344.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0lrcv4dJfSQg@public.gmane.org> References: <60047.208.72.127.64.1186336344.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> Message-ID: <46B70F69.2040500@rogers.com> Well, life is full of mixed emotions. My wife bought me an early Christmas present. A nice new Acer Aspire 5100 laptop. Hence my happiness. The bad news is that installing Kubuntu 7.04 doesn't find the built-in wifi and will require some fiddling on my part. So my love of Kubuntu has dropped a touch. In the meantime my wife is depressed because she figures I have a defective laptop because I haven't used it wirelessly yet and I keep telling her to "be patient, Linux and wireless aren't a perfect couple yet". Frank in Mississauga -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 6 16:08:52 2007 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 12:08:52 -0400 Subject: New Laptop and 802.11 Message-ID: <46B74794.2060401@rogers.com> Frank wrote: > The bad news is that installing Kubuntu 7.04 doesn't find the built-in > wifi and will require some fiddling on my part. So my love of Kubuntu > has dropped a touch. The Aspire 5100 series uses an Atheros chipset, so you will have to apt-get the madwifi package to get it to work. If you prefer KDE to Gnome, I've found that MEPIS (which uses the Ubuntu repositories) integrates KDE far better than Kubuntu does. FWIW, I have an Aspire 5003. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 6 18:18:52 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 14:18:52 -0400 Subject: OpenOffice Novell Edition Message-ID: <46B7660C.7090002@telly.org> Hello all, Apparently Novell has added quite a few features into its version which make it friendlier to Microsoft Office import/export. It's available for Windows and as part of the Novell and SuSE distributions. Novell/Microsoft political commentary aside, does anyone here have any experience with it? Has anyone here tried porting or installing OpenOffice Novell Edition from SuSE to another distribution? Thanks for any input. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 7 11:19:27 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 07:19:27 -0400 Subject: OpenOffice Novell Edition In-Reply-To: <46B7660C.7090002-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <46B7660C.7090002@telly.org> Message-ID: <46B8553F.80200@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hello all, > > > Apparently Novell has added quite a few features into its version which > make it friendlier to Microsoft Office import/export. It's available for > Windows and as part of the Novell and SuSE distributions. > > > Novell/Microsoft political commentary aside, does anyone here have any > experience with it? Has anyone here tried porting or installing > OpenOffice Novell Edition from SuSE to another distribution? > > I have the 64 bit version of OO v2.2.1 running and I don't see a way to save in the new format. The latest MS format is 2003 XML. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 7 14:20:12 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 10:20:12 -0400 Subject: LCD monitors Message-ID: <20070807142012.GB29129@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I am finally getting an LCD monitor, and I'm wondering if I have to do anything over than 'dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg'? I've had the same 17" CRT since I started using Linux in 2000, so I'm unsure if I need to do anything special. Also, is there a problem with the VGA-DVI adapters, or should things "just work"? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 7 14:45:03 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 07:45:03 -0700 Subject: LCD monitors In-Reply-To: <20070807142012.GB29129-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070807142012.GB29129@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3a97ef0708070745x75b5f006if6f37bd028c97a65@mail.gmail.com> I've never had an issues with the DVI-VGA conversion plus on my video-cards, they just behave like any normal card with a VGA output plug. As for reconfiguring Xorg, you might have to reconfigure the horizontal/vertical sync/refresh settings for your new monitor in /etc/X11/xorg.conf. If you're using a monitor/card that supports DDC (http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/D/DDC.html) then it's probably auto-detecting you video settings. If you've got some hardcoded settings, you may have some lines or sections like: Section "Monitor" Identifier "Monitor1" HorizSync 31.5 - 80.5 VertRefresh 20 - 60 Option "noddc" Option "DPMS" EndSection # ModeLine "720x576" 32.7 720 744 816 912 576 577 580 597 ModeLine "640x480" 12.5 640 650 700 800 480 490 492 625 -hsync -vsync interlace ModeLine "720x576o" 14.0625 720 760 800 900 576 600 615 625 -hsync -vsync interlace By taking out the HorizSync, VertRefresh, ModeLine, and any noddc lines, you could allow your computer to auto-detect the monitor settings. Try backing up your xorg.conf and removing those lines, then starting X. If you prefer to do it with the package, dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg should probably work as well, but then you'll have to re-enter all your video-card settings as well. On 8/7/07, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I am finally getting an LCD monitor, and I'm wondering if I have to do > anything over than 'dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg'? I've had the same > 17" CRT since I started using Linux in 2000, so I'm unsure if I need to > do anything special. > > Also, is there a problem with the VGA-DVI adapters, or should things > "just work"? Thanks. > -- > > yours, > > William > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFGuH+cHQtmiuz+KT8RAiepAJ9BIOpPI50CkWrNVYWbOJ5brtnmowCfapf2 > lrJvOtYLuv7AW3uKtCIjnT0= > =0laK > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 7 15:07:36 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 18:07:36 +0300 Subject: mailman configuration for multiple domains setup Message-ID: Hi pals, Anyone here who know of a good document which can assist in adapting mailman to accommodate multiple domains on the same server? I am aware there is two ways to go about this, tweaking mailman and the mta - exim for my case - for this to happen or installing multiple instance of mailman. I came across the above information while googling for a solution, but unfortunately, there wasn't much information provided beside that. They were more of a passing remark. Any assistance would be really appreciated. Regards William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 7 15:32:18 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:32:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: LCD monitors In-Reply-To: <20070807142012.GB29129-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070807142012.GB29129@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3080.99253.qm@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I am finally getting an LCD monitor, and I'm > wondering if I have to do > anything over than 'dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg'? > I've had the same > 17" CRT since I started using Linux in 2000, so I'm > unsure if I need to > do anything special. Probably not. A few months ago I spent a bit of time dealing with a SuSE Enterprise Linux box and 15" HP LCD screen. The hardware detection system in SuSE did not recognize this particular screen, and then went with some awful looking defaults. This was just an odd combo of one monitor and one distribution. Most of the time you should be fine. Other side of the coin I have a 17" LCD screen at home, and every distro I've tried at home has either auto-detected the screen with no problem, or gone with reasonable enough looking default settings. Regardless VGA just worked. > Also, is there a problem with the VGA-DVI adapters, > or should things > "just work"? Thanks. Not sure. I've never tried DVI. > -- > > yours, > > William > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 7 21:57:12 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 17:57:12 -0400 Subject: LCD monitors In-Reply-To: <20070807142012.GB29129-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070807142012.GB29129@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1f13df280708071457w69b9bcfdhe6c8c66dff951ed8@mail.gmail.com> On 8/7/07, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Also, is there a problem with the VGA-DVI adapters, or should things > "just work"? Thanks. I have a four year old Dell LCD monitor, which accepts either VGA or DVI in. Changes in my setup have meant that sometimes I'm running it on VGA, sometimes DVI. When I switch, I have to go into the monitor's OSD and tell it which to expect or I get garbled output. I don't know if this is common or if most auto-detect, but I thought I'd mention it. Slightly OT but if anyone is looking for a recommendation: less than a week ago I bought an Acer 2216W 22" widescreen LCD. It's about as cheap as you can get a 22" monitor at $261, and I like it a lot. Reviews have been good, which is why I chose it, but I'm not sure my review should count for too much given how short a time I've had it. This model is readily available on College Street. Native resolution is 1680x1050. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 8 15:22:57 2007 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:22:57 -0400 Subject: USB portable drive weirdness Message-ID: <20070808152257.GB27323@amtoo.utoronto.ca> I put a 2.5" drive in a portable enclosure, for backing up and transferring files, which connects to and draws power from a USB 2.0 cable. It works just fine on my laptop. Well, I plugged it into my desktop yesterday, and -- well, nothing. I mean nothing at all: no sign in dmesg that it even registered. It just wasn't there. OK, I thought, somewhere along the line I probably haven't loaded the right USB modules, or USB_mass_storage, or whatever. Then I plugged in my USB flash drive. Came right up, recognized by dmesg, mounted just fine as a USB weapon of mass storage. So the USB subsystem seems to be working. Tried the portable drive once more. Again, nothing. The drive light comes on so it *is* drawing power -- but no registration in dmesg. So I plugged it in my laptop, and there it is, no problem. Back on the desktop, nada. What is going on here? Any ideas? -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A2 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 8 15:31:44 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:31:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: USB portable drive weirdness In-Reply-To: <20070808152257.GB27323-LMpBBneordZSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <20070808152257.GB27323@amtoo.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <837618.4510.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Peter King wrote: > I put a 2.5" drive in a portable enclosure, for > backing up and transferring > files, which connects to and draws power from a USB > 2.0 cable. It works just > fine on my laptop. Well, I plugged it into my > desktop yesterday, and -- well, > nothing. I mean nothing at all: no sign in dmesg > that it even registered. It > just wasn't there. > > OK, I thought, somewhere along the line I probably > haven't loaded the right > USB modules, or USB_mass_storage, or whatever. Then > I plugged in my USB flash > drive. Came right up, recognized by dmesg, mounted > just fine as a USB weapon > of mass storage. So the USB subsystem seems to be > working. > > Tried the portable drive once more. Again, nothing. > The drive light comes on > so it *is* drawing power -- but no registration in > dmesg. So I plugged it in > my laptop, and there it is, no problem. Back on the > desktop, nada. > > What is going on here? Any ideas? Max power draw on one USB port is 500 mA. Some 2.5" drives with case can top that. My 2.5" drive case came with a funny looking USB Y cable allowing it to plug into 2 USB ports (i,e, it can draw 2 x 500 mA). My first guess in all this is your in a marginal power situation, the laptop can offer enough power, but the desktop comes up slightly short... Colin. > -- > Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Department of Philosophy > 215 Huron Street > The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc > Toronto, ON M5S 1A2 > CANADA > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > ========================================================================= > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 > 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 8 16:08:22 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 12:08:22 -0400 Subject: Getting a new LILO boot message In-Reply-To: <60047.208.72.127.64.1186336344.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0lrcv4dJfSQg@public.gmane.org> References: <60047.208.72.127.64.1186336344.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> Message-ID: <46B9B236.21315.310A774@sciguy.vex.net> After looking at my message again, it looks as if I left out some important things: I am using Slackware 11 The kernel is version 2.4.33.3 > Hi > > I was wondering if anyone knows of a way to get LILO to show a new boot > message. It used to be (IIRC) that you just needed to edit the boot > message file (/boot/boot_message.txt) and run LILO. Now it seems to choke > when it sees that my /dev/hda1 is on an NT partition, and wants me to > somehow change the partition ID. Since this already works as it is, I > aborted the command. While running liloconfig doesn't "choke" and is more > accepting of the XP partition, it also doesn't seem to change the message > to the new one. > > If anyone can help with this, I would appreciate it. > > Paul King > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 8 16:09:33 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 09:09:33 -0700 Subject: USB portable drive weirdness In-Reply-To: <837618.4510.qm-p6KvMhi7PWKB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070808152257.GB27323@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <837618.4510.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0708080909l703c60f4n77050d999f53ce99@mail.gmail.com> I had similar problems between a friend's laptop and my own. Mine is a *huge* HP with lots of power for USB, hers was a little Samsung that didn't quite make it power-wise. The drive would detect and work fine on my laptop, but on hers it was sometimes hit-and-miss or it would detect, then lose power, then come up again, etc... Her drive had a plug for using a 5V external power adaptor, does yours have something like this, Peter? On 8/8/07, Colin McGregor wrote: > --- Peter King wrote: > > I put a 2.5" drive in a portable enclosure, for > > backing up and transferring > > files, which connects to and draws power from a USB > > 2.0 cable. It works just > > fine on my laptop. Well, I plugged it into my > > desktop yesterday, and -- well, > > nothing. I mean nothing at all: no sign in dmesg > > that it even registered. It > > just wasn't there. > > > > OK, I thought, somewhere along the line I probably > > haven't loaded the right > > USB modules, or USB_mass_storage, or whatever. Then > > I plugged in my USB flash > > drive. Came right up, recognized by dmesg, mounted > > just fine as a USB weapon > > of mass storage. So the USB subsystem seems to be > > working. > > > > Tried the portable drive once more. Again, nothing. > > The drive light comes on > > so it *is* drawing power -- but no registration in > > dmesg. So I plugged it in > > my laptop, and there it is, no problem. Back on the > > desktop, nada. > > > > What is going on here? Any ideas? > > Max power draw on one USB port is 500 mA. Some 2.5" > drives with case can top that. My 2.5" drive case came > with a funny looking USB Y cable allowing it to plug > into 2 USB ports (i,e, it can draw 2 x 500 mA). My > first guess in all this is your in a marginal power > situation, the laptop can offer enough power, but the > desktop comes up slightly short... > > Colin. > > > -- > > Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > > Department of Philosophy > > 215 Huron Street > > The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc > > Toronto, ON M5S 1A2 > > CANADA > > > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > > > > ========================================================================= > > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 > > 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 8 16:13:29 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 09:13:29 -0700 Subject: Getting a new LILO boot message In-Reply-To: <46B9B236.21315.310A774-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <60047.208.72.127.64.1186336344.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> <46B9B236.21315.310A774@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <3a97ef0708080913v5ddcbabar6a0e1a22f88ee47c@mail.gmail.com> Are you actually trying to install to /dev/hda1 instead of the MBR (/dev/hda)? Maybe if you included a copy of your lilo.conf file? On 8/8/07, Paul King wrote: > After looking at my message again, it looks as if I left out some important > things: > > I am using Slackware 11 > The kernel is version 2.4.33.3 > > > Hi > > > > I was wondering if anyone knows of a way to get LILO to show a new boot > > message. It used to be (IIRC) that you just needed to edit the boot > > message file (/boot/boot_message.txt) and run LILO. Now it seems to choke > > when it sees that my /dev/hda1 is on an NT partition, and wants me to > > somehow change the partition ID. Since this already works as it is, I > > aborted the command. While running liloconfig doesn't "choke" and is more > > accepting of the XP partition, it also doesn't seem to change the message > > to the new one. > > > > If anyone can help with this, I would appreciate it. > > > > Paul King > > > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 8 16:20:36 2007 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 12:20:36 -0400 Subject: USB portable drive weirdness In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0708080909l703c60f4n77050d999f53ce99-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070808152257.GB27323@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <837618.4510.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <3a97ef0708080909l703c60f4n77050d999f53ce99@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070808162036.GA27526@amtoo.utoronto.ca> Thanks for the quick responses. Here are the answers: (1) the portable drive enclosure does *not* have any connector for an independent power supply; and (2) it did indeed come with one of those funny Y-cables for two USB devices. Perhaps if I try a regular USB cable...? Hmm. Suppose that the suggestion is right that my desktop is in a marginal power situation. (Strange but there you have it.) Are there any remedies, apart from giving up on the portable drive? -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A2 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 8 16:26:22 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 09:26:22 -0700 Subject: USB portable drive weirdness In-Reply-To: <20070808162036.GA27526-LMpBBneordZSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <20070808152257.GB27323@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <837618.4510.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <3a97ef0708080909l703c60f4n77050d999f53ce99@mail.gmail.com> <20070808162036.GA27526@amtoo.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0708080926t66a2ac48o2fb0cb763eb1b0c8@mail.gmail.com> Perhaps using a powered USB-hub (one that has a place to plug in a 5V adaptor)? I've found that using multiple USB-powered devices on a non-power hub sometimes seem to have similar issues (not enough juice from the USB bus to power them all), but giving the hub a little bit of 5V goodness can alleviate that issue. On 8/8/07, Peter King wrote: > Thanks for the quick responses. Here are the answers: (1) the portable drive > enclosure does *not* have any connector for an independent power supply; and > (2) it did indeed come with one of those funny Y-cables for two USB devices. > Perhaps if I try a regular USB cable...? Hmm. > > Suppose that the suggestion is right that my desktop is in a marginal power > situation. (Strange but there you have it.) Are there any remedies, apart from > giving up on the portable drive? > > -- > Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Department of Philosophy > 215 Huron Street > The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc > Toronto, ON M5S 1A2 > CANADA > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > ========================================================================= > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 8 16:28:21 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 12:28:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: USB portable drive weirdness In-Reply-To: <20070808162036.GA27526-LMpBBneordZSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <20070808162036.GA27526@amtoo.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <434388.14095.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Peter King wrote: > Thanks for the quick responses. Here are the > answers: (1) the portable drive > enclosure does *not* have any connector for an > independent power supply; and > (2) it did indeed come with one of those funny > Y-cables for two USB devices. > Perhaps if I try a regular USB cable...? Hmm. > > Suppose that the suggestion is right that my desktop > is in a marginal power > situation. (Strange but there you have it.) Are > there any remedies, apart from > giving up on the portable drive? My suggestions, are use the Y USB cable, and plug that into two different USB ports. If that doesn't work, get a powered USB hub (where the hub has its own wall tumor style power supply), connect the drive into that... Colin > -- > Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Department of Philosophy > 215 Huron Street > The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc > Toronto, ON M5S 1A2 > CANADA > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > ========================================================================= > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 > 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 8 16:39:28 2007 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 12:39:28 -0400 Subject: USB portable drive weirdness In-Reply-To: <20070808162036.GA27526-LMpBBneordZSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <20070808152257.GB27323@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <3a97ef0708080909l703c60f4n77050d999f53ce99@mail.gmail.com> <20070808162036.GA27526@amtoo.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <200708081239.28198.dbmacg@look.ca> I have a 60G drive with the usual Y-connector USB plugs, and I think your problem is low power. I found that the answer was to buy a powered USB hub with a good power supply. After buying two cheap hubs with small power supplies (one unmarked, and one rated at 1 amp), I went to Sourcecc (useta be Radio Shack) and got a 4-port hub with a 2.5amp power supply. Now everything works fine. If I move the 2.5a power supply to the cheap hubs, they work, too! Duncan On August 8, 2007 12:20:36 pm Peter King wrote: > Thanks for the quick responses. Here are the answers: (1) the portable > drive enclosure does *not* have any connector for an independent power > supply; and (2) it did indeed come with one of those funny Y-cables for two > USB devices. Perhaps if I try a regular USB cable...? Hmm. > > Suppose that the suggestion is right that my desktop is in a marginal power > situation. (Strange but there you have it.) Are there any remedies, apart > from giving up on the portable drive? -- --- Duncan MacGregor --- Toronto --- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 8 17:26:12 2007 From: slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (SlackRat) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 19:26:12 +0200 Subject: Getting a new LILO boot message In-Reply-To: <46B9B236.21315.310A774-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> (Paul King's message of "Wed\, 08 Aug 2007 12\:08\:22 -0400") References: <60047.208.72.127.64.1186336344.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> <46B9B236.21315.310A774@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <87wsw60wgb.fsf@azurservers.com> "Paul King" writes: > After looking at my message again, it looks as if I left out some important > things: > > I am using Slackware 11 > The kernel is version 2.4.33.3 > # Linux bootable partition config begins image = /boot/vmlinuz root = /dev/hda5 label = hda5_reiser read-only # Non-UMSDOS filesystems should be mounted read-only for checking # Linux bootable partition config ends # Linux bootable partition config begins image = /boot/vmlinuz root = /dev/hda1 label = hda1_reiser read-only # Non-UMSDOS filesystems should be mounted read-only for checking # Linux bootable partition config ends # Memtest bootable partition config begins image = /memtest/memtest.bin root = /dev/hda5 label = hda5_memtest # Memtest bootable partition config ends This works perfectly with the same version of slack and kernel as you have -- SlackRat - No 4Q to Reply - The best slaves are the ones that think they're free. Right George? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Alexander.Short-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 8 19:21:03 2007 From: Alexander.Short-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Alexander Short) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 15:21:03 -0400 Subject: Linux Job in Mississauga/Oakville Message-ID: IOVATE HEALTH SCIENCES SERVICES INC. Network Administrator - Linux Systems Email your resume: careers-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Network Administrator - Linux Systems Iovate is the maker of the MuscleTech family of products Opportunity: As a Network Administrator - Linux Systems at Iovate Health Sciences Inc., you will join a fast-paced, talented IT team to install, configure and maintain our back-office technologies and applications including file servers, storage, e-mail servers, websites, communications and remote-access equipment. Other responsibilities include: * detect, diagnose, document, and correct Linux, Windows, or network technology related problems * understand and apply industry-standard practices and procedures * plan and collaborate to accomplish network project objectives * research and develop new technology options * working under the general supervision of the Network Operations Manager Required Skills and Qualifications: * Post Secondary Education in related field * Minimum 2 years LAN administration experience in an enterprise environment * Demonstrated problem solving, research, communication, and organization skills * Self-motivated, goal oriented and works well under pressure * Preference will be given to candidates with a background in Linux, Windows, EMC SAN, procurve switches, internet and security technologies Culture: Located in Mississauga, we offer a dynamic, progressive, team based environment. We have on-site premium fitness facilities and encourage a healthy lifestyle. We also offer a comprehensive benefits package and the opportunity to grow with us. We're interested in learning more about you and appreciate you taking the time to apply in confidence to: careers-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 8 22:58:45 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 18:58:45 -0400 Subject: OT: Not-so-precise Swiss army unit mistakenly invades Liechtenstein Message-ID: <46BA4AA5.9060504@utoronto.ca> I know this is off topic, but it is hilarious. http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/03/02/swissinvade.html?ref=rss Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 8 23:30:39 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 19:30:39 -0400 Subject: OT: Not-so-precise Swiss army unit mistakenly invades Liechtenstein In-Reply-To: <46BA4AA5.9060504-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <46BA4AA5.9060504@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0708081630p7ea08677n2c25f155bb750822@mail.gmail.com> On 8/8/07, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > I know this is off topic, but it is hilarious. > > http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/03/02/swissinvade.html?ref=rss Curious - I'm pretty sure we see eye-to-eye on any number of issues, and fortunately for all involved (soldiers, politicians, and us "spectators") it is "a humorous accident," by why would you call this "hilarious?" If armed American soldiers ended up more than a Kilometer into Canada, would the story be as funny? Yes this is way OT, but an interesting exercise nonetheless, IMO. -- Scott Elcomb [ http://www.psema4.com/ ] "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 02:25:47 2007 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 22:25:47 -0400 Subject: LCD monitors In-Reply-To: <1f13df280708071457w69b9bcfdhe6c8c66dff951ed8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070807142012.GB29129@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1f13df280708071457w69b9bcfdhe6c8c66dff951ed8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10708081925u318d6238m9a16079c28972d0e@mail.gmail.com> On 8/7/07, Giles Orr wrote: > Slightly OT but if anyone is looking for a recommendation: less than a > week ago I bought an Acer 2216W 22" widescreen LCD. It's about as > cheap as you can get a 22" monitor at $261, and I like it a lot. > Reviews have been good, which is why I chose it, but I'm not sure my > review should count for too much given how short a time I've had it. > This model is readily available on College Street. Native resolution > is 1680x1050. I will second that recommendation... Mine was a Christmas present (when they were ~$100 more)... Its my first LCD and is a fantastic improvement over my old 17" CRT... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 03:58:52 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 23:58:52 -0400 Subject: Does no flashing lights mean a dead network card? Message-ID: <20070809035852.GB4554@waltdnes.org> I've been looking for an excuse to get rid of my 1999 Dell, all 128 megs of RAM and 450 mhz PIII. I just moved, and I find that the network cardi lights do not flash at all. I believe that implies dead hardware. I think this is co-incidence. A knock during the move hard enough to break the network card should've wreaked havoc with the rest of the machine. It works OK, except for the dead network card, which means no ADSL; did I ever mention that dialup is a pain? I decided some time ago that when parts start needing to be replaced, I should get rid of it. Does no flashing lights mean dead a physically dead card? The weird part is that dmesg doesn't complain, and ifconfig shows eth0 present and looking OK, but I can't even ping my ADSL modem. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 04:23:35 2007 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 00:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: LCD monitors In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10708081925u318d6238m9a16079c28972d0e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070807142012.GB29129@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1f13df280708071457w69b9bcfdhe6c8c66dff951ed8@mail.gmail.com> <61e9e2b10708081925u318d6238m9a16079c28972d0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4192.192.168.0.103.1186633415.squirrel@www.lijour.net> > On 8/7/07, Giles Orr wrote: >> Slightly OT but if anyone is looking for a recommendation: less than a >> week ago I bought an Acer 2216W 22" widescreen LCD. It's about as >> cheap as you can get a 22" monitor at $261, and I like it a lot. >> Reviews have been good, which is why I chose it, but I'm not sure my >> review should count for too much given how short a time I've had it. >> This model is readily available on College Street. Native resolution >> is 1680x1050. Great! Do you have the name of the shop, and/or the nearest intersection? I checked it out at tigerdirect.ca and it is about 270$. While you are at it, any recommendation for a good mobo doing RAID1 (and Linux -should I mention that?)? > > I will second that recommendation... Mine was a Christmas present > (when they were ~$100 more)... Its my first LCD and is a fantastic > improvement over my old 17" CRT... > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 11:16:58 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 07:16:58 -0400 Subject: LCD monitors In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10708081925u318d6238m9a16079c28972d0e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070807142012.GB29129@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1f13df280708071457w69b9bcfdhe6c8c66dff951ed8@mail.gmail.com> <61e9e2b10708081925u318d6238m9a16079c28972d0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46BAF7AA.3080202@rogers.com> Daniel Armstrong wrote: > On 8/7/07, Giles Orr wrote: > >> Slightly OT but if anyone is looking for a recommendation: less than a >> week ago I bought an Acer 2216W 22" widescreen LCD. It's about as >> cheap as you can get a 22" monitor at $261, and I like it a lot. >> Reviews have been good, which is why I chose it, but I'm not sure my >> review should count for too much given how short a time I've had it. >> This model is readily available on College Street. Native resolution >> is 1680x1050. >> > > I will second that recommendation... Mine was a Christmas present > (when they were ~$100 more)... Its my first LCD and is a fantastic > improvement over my old 17" CRT... > I bought my 1st and only LCD monitor a little over a year ago. It's a "refurb" from IBM that didn't cost much more than $100. It is quite nice to use. It's a 15", but thats close to the same dimensions as the usable area of the 17" CRT I used to use. Another advantage is I can store a lot more junk on top of my firewall computer, that also supports the monitor. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 11:25:38 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 07:25:38 -0400 Subject: Does no flashing lights mean a dead network card? In-Reply-To: <20070809035852.GB4554-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070809035852.GB4554@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <46BAF9B2.5070809@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > I've been looking for an excuse to get rid of my 1999 Dell, all 128 > megs of RAM and 450 mhz PIII. I just moved, and I find that the network > cardi lights do not flash at all. I believe that implies dead hardware. > I think this is co-incidence. A knock during the move hard enough to > break the network card should've wreaked havoc with the rest of the > machine. It works OK, except for the dead network card, which means no > ADSL; did I ever mention that dialup is a pain? > > I decided some time ago that when parts start needing to be replaced, > I should get rid of it. Does no flashing lights mean dead a physically > dead card? The weird part is that dmesg doesn't complain, and ifconfig > shows eth0 present and looking OK, but I can't even ping my ADSL modem. > > It could be damaged and not complain, if the damage gives the same appearance as no connection. However it is an old computer, but NICs are cheap. Your decision. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 11:42:15 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 07:42:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Does no flashing lights mean a dead network card? In-Reply-To: <20070809035852.GB4554-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070809035852.GB4554@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <519346.59012.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Walter Dnes wrote: > I've been looking for an excuse to get rid of my > 1999 Dell, all 128 > megs of RAM and 450 mhz PIII. I just moved, and I > find that the network > cardi lights do not flash at all. I believe that > implies dead hardware. > I think this is co-incidence. A knock during the > move hard enough to > break the network card should've wreaked havoc with > the rest of the > machine. It works OK, except for the dead network > card, which means no > ADSL; did I ever mention that dialup is a pain? I would start checking the obvious, cables, and connectors. I have seen (most unusual though) a network card that worked fine, but no LED (as best I could tell, a dead LED, period). > I decided some time ago that when parts start > needing to be replaced, > I should get rid of it. Does no flashing lights > mean dead a physically > dead card? The weird part is that dmesg doesn't > complain, and ifconfig > shows eth0 present and looking OK, but I can't even > ping my ADSL modem. After you have checked the cables, connectors, the device at the other end I would assume the issue to be a dead NIC card... Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 13:05:26 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 09:05:26 -0400 Subject: Does no flashing lights mean a dead network card? In-Reply-To: <46BAF9B2.5070809-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070809035852.GB4554@waltdnes.org> <46BAF9B2.5070809@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070809130526.GA7247@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 07:25:38AM -0400, James Knott wrote > It could be damaged and not complain, if the damage gives the same > appearance as no connection. However it is an old computer, but NICs > are cheap. Your decision. Now that I think about it, it may have been dead before the move. I asked for ADSL to be cut at month-end so I wouldn't have to pay for all of August, just for minimal usage in the first few days. I was using dialup. I have a script ~/bin/dialup that I use to connect... #!/bin/bash /usr/bin/sudo /sbin/ifconfig eth0 down /usr/bin/sudo /usr/bin/cp -f /etc/ssmtp/295.ssmtp.conf /etc/ssmtp/ssmtp.conf /usr/bin/sudo /usr/sbin/pon 295ca Appropriate entries made in /etc/sudoers and it works OK. My script to exit the dialup session is ~/bin/dialdown like so #!/bin/bash /usr/bin/sudo /usr/sbin/poff /usr/bin/sudo /usr/bin/cp -f /etc/ssmtp/istop.ssmtp.conf /etc/ssmtp/ssmtp.conf /usr/bin/sudo /etc/init.d/net.eth0 restart In the week *BEFORE THE MOVE* it was having extreme problems with the restart of eth0 after exiting the dialup session. If I wasn't so busy getting ready to move, I would've posted a question either here or on the Gentoo forum. I had packed away my other linux computer, so I never got to test out local networking in the days before the move. This is just one problem. I'm doing more and more streaming stuff. It handles internet radio (live365.com) OK. But it stutters badly on YouTube, etal. As a matter of fact, in some cases I can download the video, play it back, and it still stutters. A 1999 450 mhz PIII simply doesn't cut it today. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zh.huang-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 13:11:21 2007 From: zh.huang-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (zuoheng) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 21:11:21 +0800 Subject: Does no flashing lights mean a dead network card? In-Reply-To: <519346.59012.qm-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070809035852.GB4554@waltdnes.org> <519346.59012.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <573409e0708090611n4aa82ea0wd5be71fd43b071e5@mail.gmail.com> some type of NIC has two LED, one for link and one for activity The one for link will not flash, while the one for activity will flash when there is network traffic. I suggest to use "mii-tool" under shell prompt, to check if the auto-negotiation has succeed. Its output is more about the physical connection. my two cents. /zuoheng On 8/9/07, Colin McGregor wrote: > > --- Walter Dnes wrote: > > I've been looking for an excuse to get rid of my > > 1999 Dell, all 128 > > megs of RAM and 450 mhz PIII. I just moved, and I > > find that the network > > cardi lights do not flash at all. I believe that > > implies dead hardware. > > I think this is co-incidence. A knock during the > > move hard enough to > > break the network card should've wreaked havoc with > > the rest of the > > machine. It works OK, except for the dead network > > card, which means no > > ADSL; did I ever mention that dialup is a pain? > > I would start checking the obvious, cables, and > connectors. I have seen (most unusual though) a > network card that worked fine, but no LED (as best I > could tell, a dead LED, period). > > > I decided some time ago that when parts start > > needing to be replaced, > > I should get rid of it. Does no flashing lights > > mean dead a physically > > dead card? The weird part is that dmesg doesn't > > complain, and ifconfig > > shows eth0 present and looking OK, but I can't even > > ping my ADSL modem. > > After you have checked the cables, connectors, the > device at the other end I would assume the issue to be > a dead NIC card... > > Colin. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 13:11:48 2007 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 09:11:48 -0400 Subject: OT: Not-so-precise Swiss army unit mistakenly invades Liechtenstein In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0708081630p7ea08677n2c25f155bb750822-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <46BA4AA5.9060504@utoronto.ca> <99a6c38f0708081630p7ea08677n2c25f155bb750822@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1186665108.5644.3.camel@ubuntu> On Wed, 2007-08-08 at 19:30 -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Curious - I'm pretty sure we see eye-to-eye on any number of issues, > and fortunately for all involved (soldiers, politicians, and us > "spectators") it is "a humorous accident," by why would you call this > "hilarious?" Soldier 1: Hey dude, are we there yet? (in Swiss German) Soldier 2: Yea I think so, there's some lights ahead Soldier 1: This isn't where we started Soldier 2: Dude, we just invaded an un-armed country! > If armed American soldiers ended up more than a Kilometer into Canada, > would the story be as funny? Yes it would. Though we have enough hot air bags that I'm sure someone would make it big deal. We also have an army where Lichtenstein does not. Just adding a little more of the random to your day. -kms Kareem Shehata kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 13:20:23 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 09:20:23 -0400 Subject: Getting a new LILO boot message In-Reply-To: <87wsw60wgb.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <60047.208.72.127.64.1186336344.squirrel@webmail.vex.net>, <46B9B236.21315.310A774@sciguy.vex.net> (Paul King's message of "Wed\, 08 Aug 2007 12\:08\:22 -0400"), <87wsw60wgb.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: <46BADC57.15312.79D38CE@sciguy.vex.net> Thanks. I won't be able to do anything about this now for a few days. I will tell you how it goes, and as an earlier poster said, show you my lilo.conf file also. And, yes, to that poster, I did install it in the MBR. Paul > "Paul King" writes: > > > After looking at my message again, it looks as if I left out some important > > things: > > > > I am using Slackware 11 > > The kernel is version 2.4.33.3 > > > # Linux bootable partition config begins > image = /boot/vmlinuz > root = /dev/hda5 > label = hda5_reiser > read-only # Non-UMSDOS filesystems should be mounted read-only for > checking > # Linux bootable partition config ends > # Linux bootable partition config begins > image = /boot/vmlinuz > root = /dev/hda1 > label = hda1_reiser > read-only # Non-UMSDOS filesystems should be mounted read-only for > checking > # Linux bootable partition config ends > # Memtest bootable partition config begins > image = /memtest/memtest.bin > root = /dev/hda5 > label = hda5_memtest > # Memtest bootable partition config ends > > This works perfectly with the same version of slack and kernel as you have > > -- > SlackRat - No 4Q to Reply > - > The best slaves are the ones that think they're free. > Right George? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > __________ NOD32 2446 (20070809) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 14:10:47 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 10:10:47 -0400 Subject: OT: Not-so-precise Swiss army unit mistakenly invades Liechtenstein In-Reply-To: <1186665108.5644.3.camel@ubuntu> References: <46BA4AA5.9060504@utoronto.ca> <99a6c38f0708081630p7ea08677n2c25f155bb750822@mail.gmail.com> <1186665108.5644.3.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: <46BB2067.3070904@rogers.com> Kareem Shehata wrote: > On Wed, 2007-08-08 at 19:30 -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> Curious - I'm pretty sure we see eye-to-eye on any number of issues, >> and fortunately for all involved (soldiers, politicians, and us >> "spectators") it is "a humorous accident," by why would you call this >> "hilarious?" >> > > Soldier 1: Hey dude, are we there yet? (in Swiss German) > Soldier 2: Yea I think so, there's some lights ahead > Soldier 1: This isn't where we started > Soldier 2: Dude, we just invaded an un-armed country! > >> If armed American soldiers ended up more than a Kilometer into Canada, >> would the story be as funny? >> > > Yes it would. Though we have enough hot air bags that I'm sure > someone would make it big deal. We also have an army where > Lichtenstein does not. > > Just adding a little more of the random to your day. > Then again, we have to worry about Denmark attacking over Hans Island. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 14:22:00 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:22:00 -0400 Subject: LCD monitors In-Reply-To: <4192.192.168.0.103.1186633415.squirrel-yQHV/pc6l8fuNdv6BosnGw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070807142012.GB29129@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1f13df280708071457w69b9bcfdhe6c8c66dff951ed8@mail.gmail.com> <61e9e2b10708081925u318d6238m9a16079c28972d0e@mail.gmail.com> <4192.192.168.0.103.1186633415.squirrel@www.lijour.net> Message-ID: <1f13df280708090722o417a5279kc0480b776a717c72@mail.gmail.com> On 8/9/07, Marc Lijour wrote: > > On 8/7/07, Giles Orr wrote: > >> Slightly OT but if anyone is looking for a recommendation: less than a > >> week ago I bought an Acer 2216W 22" widescreen LCD. It's about as > >> cheap as you can get a 22" monitor at $261, and I like it a lot. > > Great! > Do you have the name of the shop, and/or the nearest intersection? > I checked it out at tigerdirect.ca and it is about 270$. http://www.filtechcomputer.com/ Filtech is on the east side of Spadina just south of College. Their website is fairly poor. I went there partly because they have a better reputation among geeks than any other store on the College strip. But you might want to call: they pulled down what appeared to be the last one in the store for me. That was a week ago though. > While you are at it, any recommendation for a good mobo doing RAID1 (and > Linux -should I mention that?)? Sorry, can't help at all on that one. I haven't bought a new computer in four years! -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 14:32:30 2007 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:32:30 -0400 Subject: Does no flashing lights mean a dead network card? In-Reply-To: <20070809035852.GB4554-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070809035852.GB4554@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <200708091032.30413.dbmacg@look.ca> Take the NIC card out, and put it back in. Try it again. Just 'Reseat the boards'. I suppose the problem could be oxide build up on the board's physical connection to the bus. Try it with a live CD. A small linux distribution should work fine with this machine. DSL (damn small linux) should work well. You might get by with Ubuntu. Dunc On August 8, 2007 11:58:52 pm Walter Dnes wrote: > I've been looking for an excuse to get rid of my 1999 Dell, all 128 > megs of RAM and 450 mhz PIII. I just moved, and I find that the network > cardi lights do not flash at all. I believe that implies dead hardware. > I think this is co-incidence. A knock during the move hard enough to > break the network card should've wreaked havoc with the rest of the > machine. It works OK, except for the dead network card, which means no > ADSL; did I ever mention that dialup is a pain? > > I decided some time ago that when parts start needing to be replaced, > I should get rid of it. Does no flashing lights mean dead a physically > dead card? The weird part is that dmesg doesn't complain, and ifconfig > shows eth0 present and looking OK, but I can't even ping my ADSL modem. -- --- Duncan MacGregor --- Toronto --- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 14:38:59 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV update Message-ID: <798553.10003.qm@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Small note, as previously noted the Zap2it labs that has provided MythTV schedule data is going away as of September 1st. Here is word on the (a?) non-profit replacement: http://www.schedulesdirect.org/ Bottom line, they are buying TV schedule data from Tribute Media Services and they have to pay for bandwidth. So, while they hope to drop the costs to something a LOT lower, the initial charge will be $15 (U.S.) for 3 months (at the end of the first 3 months they will look at income vs. costs and adjust the rates, the target they hope to hit is $20/year). Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jane99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 15:17:45 2007 From: jane99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jane Zhang) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 11:17:45 -0400 Subject: Anyone with netbsd and cyrus mail experience? Message-ID: <3037a13f0708090817h6fbbeccx93f29148bc66305b@mail.gmail.com> Hi there, A friend of mine is looking for some help with one of his clients. They are using NetBSD and one of the boxes has Cyrus mail server on it. If you are interested in some on going contract work, or to get more details on what his needs are, please email either myself (jane99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) or Brad at brad.anderson-oAASxIeIaE0 at public.gmane.org with your hourly rates and any questions you may have, thanks! Jane -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 15:41:51 2007 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:41:51 +0000 Subject: Music Managers In-Reply-To: <468EC83D.1090606-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <1183733161.5608.9.camel@ubuntu> <39020.199.246.40.54.1183734851.squirrel@smail.payneful.ca> <468EC83D.1090606@golden.net> Message-ID: <1186674111.5644.11.camel@ubuntu> On Fri, 2007-07-06 at 18:54 -0400, John Myshrall wrote: > > Rhythmbox is a lot like iTunes. > > > > http://www.gnome.org/projects/rhythmbox/ > > > > David Payne > > > > -- > > > And it supports network attached storage devices. Amarok doesn't if you > need this feature. I've been playing with rhythmbox, and I like some of the UI features of it and that it reads the iPod, but how do I sync? Or is that not available yet? Does amaroK do this? Thanks, -kms Kareem Shehata kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 16:00:33 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 12:00:33 -0400 Subject: Music Managers In-Reply-To: <1186674111.5644.11.camel@ubuntu> References: <1183733161.5608.9.camel@ubuntu> <39020.199.246.40.54.1183734851.squirrel@smail.payneful.ca> <468EC83D.1090606@golden.net> <1186674111.5644.11.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: <46BB3A21.3010704@utoronto.ca> Kareem Shehata wrote: > On Fri, 2007-07-06 at 18:54 -0400, John Myshrall wrote: > >>> Rhythmbox is a lot like iTunes. >>> >>> http://www.gnome.org/projects/rhythmbox/ >>> >>> David Payne >>> >>> -- >>> >> And it supports network attached storage devices. Amarok doesn't if you >> need this feature. > > > I've been playing with rhythmbox, and I like some of the UI features of > it and that it reads the iPod, but how do I sync? Or is that not > available yet? > > Does amaroK do this? It has support for iPods, not sure about syncing cover art, but for moving songs around, looks like it. I just use a cheap $20 1GB flash player, so not sure about the supposed bells and whistles of a bona fide iPod with Amarok. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 16:09:13 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 12:09:13 -0400 Subject: LCD monitors In-Reply-To: <1f13df280708090722o417a5279kc0480b776a717c72-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070807142012.GB29129@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1f13df280708071457w69b9bcfdhe6c8c66dff951ed8@mail.gmail.com> <61e9e2b10708081925u318d6238m9a16079c28972d0e@mail.gmail.com> <4192.192.168.0.103.1186633415.squirrel@www.lijour.net> <1f13df280708090722o417a5279kc0480b776a717c72@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46BB3C29.4010709@utoronto.ca> Giles Orr wrote: > On 8/9/07, Marc Lijour wrote: >>> On 8/7/07, Giles Orr wrote: >>>> Slightly OT but if anyone is looking for a recommendation: less than a >>>> week ago I bought an Acer 2216W 22" widescreen LCD. It's about as >>>> cheap as you can get a 22" monitor at $261, and I like it a lot. >> Great! >> Do you have the name of the shop, and/or the nearest intersection? >> I checked it out at tigerdirect.ca and it is about 270$. > > http://www.filtechcomputer.com/ > > Filtech is on the east side of Spadina just south of College. Their > website is fairly poor. I went there partly because they have a > better reputation among geeks than any other store on the College > strip. But you might want to call: they pulled down what appeared to > be the last one in the store for me. That was a week ago though. > >> While you are at it, any recommendation for a good mobo doing RAID1 (and >> Linux -should I mention that?)? > > Sorry, can't help at all on that one. I haven't bought a new computer > in four years! It's pretty easy to use softraid with any 2 or more hard drives to create a RAID(0,1,5...) array, and cheaper than buying a motherboard with a hardware raid controller. Most desktop mobos come with raid support, but that's done through the bios and software, so you're better off disabling that and using Linux to build and manage your array(s). There are some common ~$100 boards that come with 6-8 SATA ports, and 1-2 IDE, so you could build a pretty nifty storage array for yourself with a few $110 500GB drives ;) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 16:46:50 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 09:46:50 -0700 Subject: Semi-OT: Music players /w flash and playlists Message-ID: <3a97ef0708090946s70b62e31qcee4248ba4696007@mail.gmail.com> The previous thread on music apps reminded me about something I've been searching for quite awhile, but as of yet I haven't really been able to find something that quite suits my needs. Rather than a linux app, I'm looking for something portable that will handle a SD cards but still supports playlists. In a pinch, supporting directories and allowing me to skip between them easily would work as well, but playlists would be best. Preference would be given to something that either has a supposed linux client, or a text-based format that I could easily whip up a script to update, etc. If it's windows-only it's pretty much a no-go, since I don't really want to constantly rebooting into XP or loading up Qemu/VMware just to update my song list. My current toy is pretty simple, just an old-fashioned RCA Lyra that takes a AAA battery SD cards up to 2GB and allows you to skip ahead/back a song-at-a-time. It shows up as two mass-storage drives in 'nix or windows (one for internal memory, the other for the SD card). Something similar would be nice. I've always wondered why nobody makes something like the iPod but that can accept SD cards with playlists, especially since the most common issues I see with iPods (other than cracked screens due to abuse) are either a dead battery or a dead hard-drive. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 17:25:30 2007 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 17:25:30 +0000 Subject: Semi-OT: Music players /w flash and playlists In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0708090946s70b62e31qcee4248ba4696007-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0708090946s70b62e31qcee4248ba4696007@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1186680330.5644.17.camel@ubuntu> On Thu, 2007-08-09 at 09:46 -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Rather than a linux app, I'm looking for something portable that will > handle a SD cards but still supports playlists. In a pinch, supporting > directories and allowing me to skip between them easily would work as > well, but playlists would be best. I personally use my Nokia phone for this. The new ones come with some crappy "Nokia Music Manager" that doesn't work for anything, but the old ones just used directories. The mini or micro-SD cards they use usually come with an adapter to normal SD. Also means carying around one less gadget! -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 17:30:11 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 13:30:11 -0400 Subject: LCD monitors In-Reply-To: <1f13df280708071457w69b9bcfdhe6c8c66dff951ed8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070807142012.GB29129@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1f13df280708071457w69b9bcfdhe6c8c66dff951ed8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990708091030n65715d40r40f0554b0dfdb755@mail.gmail.com> On 8/7/07, Giles Orr wrote: > I have a four year old Dell LCD monitor, which accepts either VGA or > DVI in. Changes in my setup have meant that sometimes I'm running it > on VGA, sometimes DVI. When I switch, I have to go into the monitor's > OSD and tell it which to expect or I get garbled output. I don't know > if this is common or if most auto-detect, but I thought I'd mention > it. Everything these days will autodetect and turn off and give you a good message about it. On 8/7/07, Giles Orr wrote: > Slightly OT but if anyone is looking for a recommendation: less than a > week ago I bought an Acer 2216W 22" widescreen LCD. It's about as > cheap as you can get a 22" monitor at $261, and I like it a lot. > Reviews have been good, which is why I chose it, but I'm not sure my > review should count for too much given how short a time I've had it. > This model is readily available on College Street. Native resolution > is 1680x1050. One note: There are some godawful LCDs coming out. The new low-end 19" Dell screen I have for a spare computer at work will wash out a lot of colours. People will look at it and insist that everything looks good -- photographs and text all look good. But subtle colour changes are NOT visible at all. I can confirm this on other peoples screens too.. where they have trouble distinguishing white from beige. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 17:57:17 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:57:17 -0700 Subject: Semi-OT: Music players /w flash and playlists In-Reply-To: <1186680330.5644.17.camel@ubuntu> References: <3a97ef0708090946s70b62e31qcee4248ba4696007@mail.gmail.com> <1186680330.5644.17.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: <3a97ef0708091057w76840f1fu102e46683a109840@mail.gmail.com> I've considered that, however one thing I've noticed with people who have media-phones is that they tend to be chronically low on batteries. It would be nice to reduce my gadget count, but I think I'd prefer to keep my mp3 player (which is small and just clips onto my pants anyhow) separate from my phone for now since during long coding/driving sessions I'm usually playing music for hours on end. Cheers, TJA On 8/9/07, Kareem Shehata wrote: > On Thu, 2007-08-09 at 09:46 -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > > Rather than a linux app, I'm looking for something portable that will > > handle a SD cards but still supports playlists. In a pinch, supporting > > directories and allowing me to skip between them easily would work as > > well, but playlists would be best. > > I personally use my Nokia phone for this. The new ones come with some > crappy "Nokia Music Manager" that doesn't work for anything, but the old > ones just used directories. The mini or micro-SD cards they use usually > come with an adapter to normal SD. Also means carying around one less > gadget! > > -kms > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 18:13:46 2007 From: gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jing) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:13:46 -0400 Subject: pinning a process in memory Message-ID: Hi, I have a dumb question which defeated my attempts at googling for an answer. I know that there's a way to programmatically pin pages in memory through the mlock call, but I want to pin a process in memory from the command line. Anyone know what the magical incantation is for this? Simply turning off swap isn't an option since I want to swap some apps out. I just want a specific app to always stay in memory no matter what. -Jing -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 15:39:19 2007 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 11:39:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Not-so-precise Swiss army unit mistakenly invades Liechtenstein In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0708081630p7ea08677n2c25f155bb750822-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <46BA4AA5.9060504@utoronto.ca> <99a6c38f0708081630p7ea08677n2c25f155bb750822@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Aug 2007, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 8/8/07, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: >> I know this is off topic, but it is hilarious. >> http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/03/02/swissinvade.html?ref=rss > Curious - I'm pretty sure we see eye-to-eye on any number of issues, > and fortunately for all involved (soldiers, politicians, and us > "spectators") it is "a humorous accident," by why would you call this > "hilarious?" > If armed American soldiers ended up more than a Kilometer into Canada, > would the story be as funny? > Yes this is way OT, but an interesting exercise nonetheless, IMO. To me, the "humorous" part is that the reporter calls it an "invasion". I guess even the CBC want the news to be more sensational rather than call it a "navigation error". JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 18:40:33 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:40:33 -0400 Subject: OT: Not-so-precise Swiss army unit mistakenly invades Liechtenstein In-Reply-To: References: <46BA4AA5.9060504@utoronto.ca> <99a6c38f0708081630p7ea08677n2c25f155bb750822@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46BB5FA1.9080600@rogers.com> John Vetterli wrote: > On Wed, 8 Aug 2007, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> On 8/8/07, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: >>> I know this is off topic, but it is hilarious. >>> http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/03/02/swissinvade.html?ref=rss >> Curious - I'm pretty sure we see eye-to-eye on any number of issues, >> and fortunately for all involved (soldiers, politicians, and us >> "spectators") it is "a humorous accident," by why would you call this >> "hilarious?" >> If armed American soldiers ended up more than a Kilometer into Canada, >> would the story be as funny? >> Yes this is way OT, but an interesting exercise nonetheless, IMO. > > To me, the "humorous" part is that the reporter calls it an > "invasion". I guess even the CBC want the news to be more sensational > rather than call it a "navigation error". > I wonder if the Swiss army carried their knives? ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 18:49:51 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 18:49:51 +0000 Subject: OT: Not-so-precise Swiss army unit mistakenly invades Liechtenstein In-Reply-To: <1186665108.5644.3.camel@ubuntu> References: <46BA4AA5.9060504@utoronto.ca> <99a6c38f0708081630p7ea08677n2c25f155bb750822@mail.gmail.com> <1186665108.5644.3.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: On 8/9/07, Kareem Shehata wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-08-08 at 19:30 -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > Curious - I'm pretty sure we see eye-to-eye on any number of issues,and fortunately for all involved (soldiers, politicians, and us"spectators") it is "a humorous accident," by why would you call this"hilarious?" > > Soldier 1: Hey dude, are we there yet? (in Swiss German) > Soldier 2: Yea I think so, there's some lights ahead > Soldier 1: This isn't where we started > Soldier 2: Dude, we just invaded an un-armed country! > > If armed American soldiers ended up more than a Kilometer into Canada,would the story be as funny? > > Yes it would. Though we have enough hot air bags that I'm sure someone > would make it big deal. We also have an army where Lichtenstein does not. > There is also the difference that Canada is the second largest country in the world, whereas Liechtenstein occupies just 160 km^2. What is more deeply ironic about this is that Swiss troops (from a country that was neutral in both World Wars) "invaded" a neighbouring country *that was also neutral.* Their relevant histories of neutrality are different (Switzerland has been neutral since 1815, after CONSIDERABLE previous conflict, where their mercenaries were amongst the "tough guys" of Europe in the middle ages) whereas Liechtenstein only made such a declaration in 1868, the year after our Confederation). And, well, while Switzerland is neutral, they maintain a seriously nasty army (following the principle of "trust but verify"), whereas Liechtenstein disbanded their 80 troops at the time Canada became a country... Yes, it sure is funny :-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 18:53:30 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 18:53:30 +0000 Subject: OT: Not-so-precise Swiss army unit mistakenly invades Liechtenstein In-Reply-To: <46BB5FA1.9080600-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46BA4AA5.9060504@utoronto.ca> <99a6c38f0708081630p7ea08677n2c25f155bb750822@mail.gmail.com> <46BB5FA1.9080600@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 8/9/07, James Knott wrote: > I wonder if the Swiss army carried their knives? ;-) Some years ago, I had a Swiss roommate. He was permitted to bring his knife abroad, and he used it frequently in daily life :-). On the other hand, he was NOT permitted to bring his uniform abroad; that has been forbidden since, oh, going on 200 years... The only place where they are able to take uniforms is one other principality, where they form the official military defense, namely in Vatican City. (And there's a strange, strange irony in the fact that Switzerland is largely Protestant...) -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 19:01:08 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 15:01:08 -0400 Subject: OT: Not-so-precise Swiss army unit mistakenly invades Liechtenstein In-Reply-To: References: <46BA4AA5.9060504@utoronto.ca> <99a6c38f0708081630p7ea08677n2c25f155bb750822@mail.gmail.com> <46BB5FA1.9080600@rogers.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0708091201j606eb58y48cebc6b0e85cab8@mail.gmail.com> On 8/9/07, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 8/9/07, James Knott wrote: > > I wonder if the Swiss army carried their knives? ;-) > > Some years ago, I had a Swiss roommate. He was permitted to bring his > knife abroad, and he used it frequently in daily life :-). On the > other hand, he was NOT permitted to bring his uniform abroad; that has > been forbidden since, oh, going on 200 years... > > The only place where they are able to take uniforms is one other > principality, where they form the official military defense, namely in > Vatican City. (And there's a strange, strange irony in the fact that > Switzerland is largely Protestant...) Now that's an interesting piece of trivia; I'd never have guessed the Swiss protect the Vatican. To be honest, it sounds like a great piece for a documentary. -- Scott Elcomb [ http://www.psema4.com/ ] "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 19:06:11 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 19:06:11 +0000 Subject: Semi-OT: Music players /w flash and playlists In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0708091057w76840f1fu102e46683a109840-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0708090946s70b62e31qcee4248ba4696007@mail.gmail.com> <1186680330.5644.17.camel@ubuntu> <3a97ef0708091057w76840f1fu102e46683a109840@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 8/9/07, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I've considered that, however one thing I've noticed with people who > have media-phones is that they tend to be chronically low on > batteries. It would be nice to reduce my gadget count, but I think I'd > prefer to keep my mp3 player (which is small and just clips onto my > pants anyhow) separate from my phone for now since during long > coding/driving sessions I'm usually playing music for hours on end. I've gone with an Apple iPod, which is, via GNUPod, something I can operate with *completely* using Linux. In part, it's an embedded proprietary system, but interoperation is working fine, so I frankly don't care very much. I'm actually watching for the forthcoming availability of iPod Shuffle "clones," as it looks like Taiwanese and Chinese vendors are working on units that may even be more usable than the original, and which are really really tiny... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 19:16:50 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 15:16:50 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Music players /w flash and playlists In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0708091057w76840f1fu102e46683a109840-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0708090946s70b62e31qcee4248ba4696007@mail.gmail.com> <1186680330.5644.17.camel@ubuntu> <3a97ef0708091057w76840f1fu102e46683a109840@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000601c7dab9$d7c7f800$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Check out the insignia player (is a chi-pod). It's a 2/4GB flash MP3/mp4/wmv player with playlist support. Its only 89$ for the 2GB version and it has a 2.5 inch screen for video. It's a bloody amazing device. It even has dual headphones and a microSD slot. Right now I am watching episodes of stargate sg-1 on it. I bought mine at Canada computers. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Tyler > Aviss > Sent: August 9, 2007 1:57 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Semi-OT: Music players /w flash and playlists > > I've considered that, however one thing I've noticed with people who > have media-phones is that they tend to be chronically low on > batteries. It would be nice to reduce my gadget count, but I think I'd > prefer to keep my mp3 player (which is small and just clips onto my > pants anyhow) separate from my phone for now since during long > coding/driving sessions I'm usually playing music for hours on end. > > > Cheers, > > TJA > > On 8/9/07, Kareem Shehata wrote: > > On Thu, 2007-08-09 at 09:46 -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > > > Rather than a linux app, I'm looking for something portable that will > > > handle a SD cards but still supports playlists. In a pinch, supporting > > > directories and allowing me to skip between them easily would work as > > > well, but playlists would be best. > > > > I personally use my Nokia phone for this. The new ones come with some > > crappy "Nokia Music Manager" that doesn't work for anything, but the old > > ones just used directories. The mini or micro-SD cards they use usually > > come with an adapter to normal SD. Also means carying around one less > > gadget! > > > > -kms > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 19:30:25 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 15:30:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Not-so-precise Swiss army unit mistakenly invades Liechtenstein In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0708091201j606eb58y48cebc6b0e85cab8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0708091201j606eb58y48cebc6b0e85cab8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <538436.2017.qm@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 8/9/07, Christopher Browne > wrote: > > On 8/9/07, James Knott > wrote: > > > I wonder if the Swiss army carried their knives? > ;-) > > > > Some years ago, I had a Swiss roommate. He was > permitted to bring his > > knife abroad, and he used it frequently in daily > life :-). On the > > other hand, he was NOT permitted to bring his > uniform abroad; that has > > been forbidden since, oh, going on 200 years... > > > > The only place where they are able to take > uniforms is one other > > principality, where they form the official > military defense, namely in > > Vatican City. (And there's a strange, strange > irony in the fact that > > Switzerland is largely Protestant...) > > Now that's an interesting piece of trivia; I'd never > have guessed the > Swiss protect the Vatican. To be honest, it sounds > like a great piece > for a documentary. Documentaries have been done about the Swiss guard at the Vatican, and it does make for a colorful images (if you don't get that last comment, have a look at the Swiss guard dress uniform, which is unlike any current military dress uniform...). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 19:44:42 2007 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 15:44:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux-friendly hardware (was: LCD monitors) In-Reply-To: <1f13df280708090722o417a5279kc0480b776a717c72-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070807142012.GB29129@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1f13df280708071457w69b9bcfdhe6c8c66dff951ed8@mail.gmail.com> <61e9e2b10708081925u318d6238m9a16079c28972d0e@mail.gmail.com> <4192.192.168.0.103.1186633415.squirrel@www.lijour.net> <1f13df280708090722o417a5279kc0480b776a717c72@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <38849.192.168.0.105.1186688682.squirrel@www.lijour.net> > On 8/9/07, Marc Lijour wrote: >> > On 8/7/07, Giles Orr wrote: >> >> Slightly OT but if anyone is looking for a recommendation: less than >> a >> >> week ago I bought an Acer 2216W 22" widescreen LCD. It's about as >> >> cheap as you can get a 22" monitor at $261, and I like it a lot. >> >> Great! >> Do you have the name of the shop, and/or the nearest intersection? >> I checked it out at tigerdirect.ca and it is about 270$. > > http://www.filtechcomputer.com/ > > Filtech is on the east side of Spadina just south of College. Their > website is fairly poor. I went there partly because they have a > better reputation among geeks than any other store on the College > strip. But you might want to call: they pulled down what appeared to > be the last one in the store for me. That was a week ago though. Thanks for the tip >> While you are at it, any recommendation for a good mobo doing RAID1 (and >> Linux -should I mention that?)? > > Sorry, can't help at all on that one. I haven't bought a new computer > in four years! That is also my situation. Given that some hardware vendors were not famous for being Linux-friendly (in my experience I am thinking of ASUS and Logitech), I wonder if there has been some changes on the field. Linux users as a community are gaining in mass. I would hope that will make things easier for us. Furthermore, I'd prefer to give some dollars to a vendor that put some efforts in shipping a Linux-ready product. Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 20:40:01 2007 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 16:40:01 -0400 Subject: USB portable drive weirdness In-Reply-To: <434388.14095.qm-PUkK9LDfIAyB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070808162036.GA27526@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <434388.14095.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070809204001.GA31315@amtoo.utoronto.ca> On Wed, Aug 08, 2007 at 12:28:21PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > My suggestions, are use the Y USB cable, and plug that > into two different USB ports. If that doesn't work, > get a powered USB hub (where the hub has its own wall > tumor style power supply), connect the drive into > that... The clever idea of plugging the Y-USB cable into two ports on the desktop machine does not work, alas. I'll be getting a decent USB hub shortly, it seems. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A2 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 20:56:02 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 13:56:02 -0700 Subject: Semi-OT: Music players /w flash and playlists In-Reply-To: <000601c7dab9$d7c7f800$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0708090946s70b62e31qcee4248ba4696007@mail.gmail.com> <1186680330.5644.17.camel@ubuntu> <3a97ef0708091057w76840f1fu102e46683a109840@mail.gmail.com> <000601c7dab9$d7c7f800$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0708091356y3d286ec0w592c3857615829dc@mail.gmail.com> I looked up the 4GB model, and assuming it's the same one it looks quite nice. Looks like there's a video model and a just mp3 model: http://www.insignia-products.com/pc-226-6-insignia-4gb-mp3-player-black.aspx http://www.insignia-products.com/pc-224-6-insignia-4gb-video-mp3-player-black.aspx Yours would likely be the latter, and it seems to also have bluetooth support. How does it manage the playlists, and what's the 'nix compatibility angle on that like? I'm guessing that it's a user-editable file on a mass-storage type device? On 8/9/07, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Check out the insignia player (is a chi-pod). > It's a 2/4GB flash MP3/mp4/wmv player with playlist support. Its only 89$ > for the 2GB version and it has a 2.5 inch screen for video. > It's a bloody amazing device. It even has dual headphones and a microSD > slot. Right now I am watching episodes of stargate sg-1 on it. > > I bought mine at Canada computers. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Tyler > > Aviss > > Sent: August 9, 2007 1:57 PM > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Semi-OT: Music players /w flash and playlists > > > > I've considered that, however one thing I've noticed with people who > > have media-phones is that they tend to be chronically low on > > batteries. It would be nice to reduce my gadget count, but I think I'd > > prefer to keep my mp3 player (which is small and just clips onto my > > pants anyhow) separate from my phone for now since during long > > coding/driving sessions I'm usually playing music for hours on end. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > TJA > > > > On 8/9/07, Kareem Shehata wrote: > > > On Thu, 2007-08-09 at 09:46 -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > > > > Rather than a linux app, I'm looking for something portable that will > > > > handle a SD cards but still supports playlists. In a pinch, supporting > > > > directories and allowing me to skip between them easily would work as > > > > well, but playlists would be best. > > > > > > I personally use my Nokia phone for this. The new ones come with some > > > crappy "Nokia Music Manager" that doesn't work for anything, but the old > > > ones just used directories. The mini or micro-SD cards they use usually > > > come with an adapter to normal SD. Also means carying around one less > > > gadget! > > > > > > -kms > > > > > > > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 20:58:35 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 13:58:35 -0700 Subject: Linux-friendly hardware (was: LCD monitors) In-Reply-To: <38849.192.168.0.105.1186688682.squirrel-yQHV/pc6l8fuNdv6BosnGw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070807142012.GB29129@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1f13df280708071457w69b9bcfdhe6c8c66dff951ed8@mail.gmail.com> <61e9e2b10708081925u318d6238m9a16079c28972d0e@mail.gmail.com> <4192.192.168.0.103.1186633415.squirrel@www.lijour.net> <1f13df280708090722o417a5279kc0480b776a717c72@mail.gmail.com> <38849.192.168.0.105.1186688682.squirrel@www.lijour.net> Message-ID: <3a97ef0708091358o597abb28r4cc3eb7dc3703772@mail.gmail.com> Just as a note, I do believe that they are one of the "Cash Discount" stores that costs an extra 3% to use a credit-card. So bring cash, or - if you want the extra safety of a visa warranty-wise - be prepared to pay a little bit more. On 8/9/07, Marc Lijour wrote: > > On 8/9/07, Marc Lijour wrote: > >> > On 8/7/07, Giles Orr wrote: > >> >> Slightly OT but if anyone is looking for a recommendation: less than > >> a > >> >> week ago I bought an Acer 2216W 22" widescreen LCD. It's about as > >> >> cheap as you can get a 22" monitor at $261, and I like it a lot. > >> > >> Great! > >> Do you have the name of the shop, and/or the nearest intersection? > >> I checked it out at tigerdirect.ca and it is about 270$. > > > > http://www.filtechcomputer.com/ > > > > Filtech is on the east side of Spadina just south of College. Their > > website is fairly poor. I went there partly because they have a > > better reputation among geeks than any other store on the College > > strip. But you might want to call: they pulled down what appeared to > > be the last one in the store for me. That was a week ago though. > > Thanks for the tip > > >> While you are at it, any recommendation for a good mobo doing RAID1 (and > >> Linux -should I mention that?)? > > > > Sorry, can't help at all on that one. I haven't bought a new computer > > in four years! > > That is also my situation. Given that some hardware vendors were not > famous for being Linux-friendly (in my experience I am thinking of ASUS > and Logitech), I wonder if there has been some changes on the field. Linux > users as a community are gaining in mass. I would hope that will make > things easier for us. > Furthermore, I'd prefer to give some dollars to a vendor that put some > efforts in shipping a Linux-ready product. > > Marc > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 22:17:32 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 18:17:32 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Music players /w flash and playlists In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0708091356y3d286ec0w592c3857615829dc-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0708090946s70b62e31qcee4248ba4696007@mail.gmail.com> <1186680330.5644.17.camel@ubuntu> <3a97ef0708091057w76840f1fu102e46683a109840@mail.gmail.com> <000601c7dab9$d7c7f800$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <3a97ef0708091356y3d286ec0w592c3857615829dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00aa01c7dad3$1699eed0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> It supports both MTP and MSC (mass storage) modes. Try using Amarok, it has MTP support. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Tyler > Aviss > Sent: August 9, 2007 4:56 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Semi-OT: Music players /w flash and playlists > > I looked up the 4GB model, and assuming it's the same one it looks quite > nice. > Looks like there's a video model and a just mp3 model: > > http://www.insignia-products.com/pc-226-6-insignia-4gb-mp3-player- > black.aspx > http://www.insignia-products.com/pc-224-6-insignia-4gb-video-mp3-player- > black.aspx > > Yours would likely be the latter, and it seems to also have bluetooth > support. > > How does it manage the playlists, and what's the 'nix compatibility > angle on that like? I'm guessing that it's a user-editable file on a > mass-storage type device? > > On 8/9/07, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > Check out the insignia player (is a chi-pod). > > It's a 2/4GB flash MP3/mp4/wmv player with playlist support. Its only > 89$ > > for the 2GB version and it has a 2.5 inch screen for video. > > It's a bloody amazing device. It even has dual headphones and a microSD > > slot. Right now I am watching episodes of stargate sg-1 on it. > > > > I bought mine at Canada computers. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Tyler > > > Aviss > > > Sent: August 9, 2007 1:57 PM > > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Semi-OT: Music players /w flash and playlists > > > > > > I've considered that, however one thing I've noticed with people who > > > have media-phones is that they tend to be chronically low on > > > batteries. It would be nice to reduce my gadget count, but I think I'd > > > prefer to keep my mp3 player (which is small and just clips onto my > > > pants anyhow) separate from my phone for now since during long > > > coding/driving sessions I'm usually playing music for hours on end. > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > TJA > > > > > > On 8/9/07, Kareem Shehata wrote: > > > > On Thu, 2007-08-09 at 09:46 -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > > > > > Rather than a linux app, I'm looking for something portable that > will > > > > > handle a SD cards but still supports playlists. In a pinch, > supporting > > > > > directories and allowing me to skip between them easily would work > as > > > > > well, but playlists would be best. > > > > > > > > I personally use my Nokia phone for this. The new ones come with > some > > > > crappy "Nokia Music Manager" that doesn't work for anything, but the > old > > > > ones just used directories. The mini or micro-SD cards they use > usually > > > > come with an adapter to normal SD. Also means carying around one > less > > > > gadget! > > > > > > > > -kms > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 22:28:35 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 18:28:35 -0400 Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday Message-ID: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Make sure you get a license. http://www.warnerchappell.com/wcm_2/song_search/song_detail/songview_2.jsp?e songId=126621000 &view=fulllyrics -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 22:36:41 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 22:36:41 +0000 Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday In-Reply-To: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: On 8/9/07, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Make sure you get a license. http://www.warnerchappell.com/wcm_2/song_search/song_detail/songview_2.jsp?esongId=126621000&view=fulllyrics Wikipedia has a pretty informative discussion of it... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Birthday_to_You -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 22:54:30 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 18:54:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday In-Reply-To: References: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <5131.74.99.30.125.1186700070.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > > Wikipedia has a pretty informative discussion of it... Indeed, from Wikipedia: ----------------------- Many restaurants have original, modern, corporate-developed songs that are used instead of the old-fashioned "Happy Birthday to You" when serving patrons the traditional cake on their birthdays. Originally, these songs were specifically developed to prevent copyright infringement and having to pay royalties. ----------------------- Yesterday evening I had dinner at a Swiss Chalet in Richmond Hill. The wait staff gathered several times to sing the Swiss Chalet corporate birthday song. I wondered why the didn't just sing 'Happy Birthday [tm]". Now I know. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 23:59:27 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 19:59:27 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly hardware In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0708091358o597abb28r4cc3eb7dc3703772-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070807142012.GB29129@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1f13df280708071457w69b9bcfdhe6c8c66dff951ed8@mail.gmail.com> <61e9e2b10708081925u318d6238m9a16079c28972d0e@mail.gmail.com> <4192.192.168.0.103.1186633415.squirrel@www.lijour.net> <1f13df280708090722o417a5279kc0480b776a717c72@mail.gmail.com> <38849.192.168.0.105.1186688682.squirrel@www.lijour.net> <3a97ef0708091358o597abb28r4cc3eb7dc3703772@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46BBAA5F.1040806@rogers.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > Just as a note, I do believe that they are one of the "Cash Discount" > stores that costs an extra 3% to use a credit-card. So bring cash, or > - if you want the extra safety of a visa warranty-wise - be prepared > to pay a little bit more. > Many stores will also take debit cards, without charging that extra 3%. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 00:42:49 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:42:49 -0400 Subject: UserFriendly Strip Comments Message-ID: <46BBB489.3080302@rogers.com> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20070711 -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 01:10:49 2007 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 21:10:49 -0400 Subject: USB portable drive weirdness In-Reply-To: <20070809204001.GA31315-LMpBBneordZSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <20070808162036.GA27526@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <434388.14095.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070809204001.GA31315@amtoo.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070810011049.GA6962@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 04:40:01PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > On Wed, Aug 08, 2007 at 12:28:21PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > > > My suggestions, are use the Y USB cable, and plug that > > into two different USB ports. If that doesn't work, > > get a powered USB hub (where the hub has its own wall > > tumor style power supply), connect the drive into > > that... > > The clever idea of plugging the Y-USB cable into two ports on the > desktop machine does not work, alas. I'll be getting a decent USB > hub shortly, it seems. Even with Y-cable, you have to plug into "powered" USB ports. 500mA is the max, but only for initial surge. I believe steady-state max is about half of that (can't remember). -- William Park , Toronto, Canada BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 01:16:52 2007 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 21:16:52 -0400 Subject: scripting help In-Reply-To: <20070802185221.GB23877-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070802185221.GB23877@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070810011652.GB6962@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 02:52:21PM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > I want to check, in a script, for a file or files that are less than x > number of days old. If those conditions are met then do something. I > had something like this in mind: > > find ${TOMCAT}build/backup -iname "*war_????????-????" \ > -mtime -$BACKUPAGE || echo "No files found!" > > However, I believe that if find encounters any errors, like permission > denied, the exit value would change and the test would fail. > > Can someone suggest a better way? Check stdout insted of return value, ie. find ... | while read i; do echo "found $i" done or in 2 steps (preferred), find ... > /tmp/x if [ -s /tmp/x ]; then echo "found something" fi -- William Park , Toronto, Canada BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 01:21:02 2007 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 21:21:02 -0400 Subject: $200 Linux Laptop In-Reply-To: <1e55af990707250015i6ad32695see5abf34e4b5e577-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990707250015i6ad32695see5abf34e4b5e577@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070810012102.GC6962@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 03:15:43AM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > ASUS: > http://www.hothardware.com/articles/Hands%5Fon%5Fwith%5Fthe%5FASUS%5FEee/ > http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3829 > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFLJJw6WRqM > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEeLJltAHRE > > The Kitchener Waterloo LUG is wooing ASUS to get a loaner laptop to > present on it, or to get a rep to drop by. No luck yet. Do we have > any contacts with ASUS to try the same? > > Also, there's this one: > Medison Celebrity $ 163.21 CAD > http://www.medisoncelebrity.com/product.html $200 is rip-off. BestBuy is selling a "mainstream" Acer laptop for $499. Lesson: Never fight commodity PC. You won't win. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 02:03:28 2007 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 22:03:28 -0400 Subject: $200 Linux Laptop In-Reply-To: <20070810012102.GC6962-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990707250015i6ad32695see5abf34e4b5e577@mail.gmail.com> <20070810012102.GC6962@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <92ee967a0708091903q35b3fd06q77851e4dcfdd66e@mail.gmail.com> On 8/9/07, William Park wrote: > On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 03:15:43AM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > > ASUS: > > http://www.hothardware.com/articles/Hands%5Fon%5Fwith%5Fthe%5FASUS%5FEee/ > > http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3829 > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFLJJw6WRqM > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEeLJltAHRE > > > > The Kitchener Waterloo LUG is wooing ASUS to get a loaner laptop to > > present on it, or to get a rep to drop by. No luck yet. Do we have > > any contacts with ASUS to try the same? > > > > Also, there's this one: > > Medison Celebrity $ 163.21 CAD > > http://www.medisoncelebrity.com/product.html > > $200 is rip-off. BestBuy is selling a "mainstream" Acer laptop for > $499. Lesson: Never fight commodity PC. You won't win. $470 Acer: Product Weight 2.4 kg Product Dimensions 34.1(W) x 3.5(H) x 25.1(D) cm $200 eee PC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASUS_Eee_PC Weight: 890 g 2 lbs Dimensions: 22.5 ? 16.5 ? 2.1~3.5 cm The eee PC is small enough to carry around, (supposedly) more durable than most machines, and cheap enough that you won't have to pack it in a specially reinforced foam backpack. BTW, unless somebody has newer info than me, the Medison is a scam :-) -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 02:40:00 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 22:40:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: USB portable drive weirdness In-Reply-To: <20070810011049.GA6962-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070808162036.GA27526@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <434388.14095.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070809204001.GA31315@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <20070810011049.GA6962@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <5225.74.99.30.125.1186713600.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Even with Y-cable, you have to plug into "powered" USB ports. 500mA is > the max, but only for initial surge. I believe steady-state max is > about half of that (can't remember). We rely on the fact that it's 500mA *continuous* to run our scope and generator, and that seems to work. But there are many under-powered USB ports out there, in which case you have to use a powered hub. Or steal from two ports. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 21:08:43 2007 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 17:08:43 -0400 Subject: USB portable drive weirdness In-Reply-To: <20070809204001.GA31315-LMpBBneordZSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <20070808162036.GA27526@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <434388.14095.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070809204001.GA31315@amtoo.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <200708091708.43706.dbmacg@look.ca> Some computer 'features' remain, mainframe or PC, such as power supplies that produce erratic or weak current. They manifest themselves in other ways, like erratic peripheral behaviour. Low humidity in December caused erratic mainframe problems in the dear old days, making printers an tape drives fail. High-speed tape rewind in a dry environment would leave a trail of static sparks that *erased* the tape. A few buckets of water in the air conditioner kept us going once we figured it out. But it took several Decembers. Computers that are overheating never say 'It's too hot!' and shut down gracefully, but hang or leave bizarre software messages. So you have to to guess about power supply capability. Dunc On August 9, 2007 04:40:01 pm Peter King wrote: > On Wed, Aug 08, 2007 at 12:28:21PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > > My suggestions, are use the Y USB cable, and plug that > > into two different USB ports. If that doesn't work, > > get a powered USB hub (where the hub has its own wall > > tumor style power supply), connect the drive into > > that... > > The clever idea of plugging the Y-USB cable into two ports on the > desktop machine does not work, alas. I'll be getting a decent USB > hub shortly, it seems. -- --- Duncan MacGregor --- Toronto --- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 14:52:22 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:52:22 -0400 Subject: Does no flashing lights mean a dead network card? In-Reply-To: <200708091032.30413.dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM@public.gmane.org> References: <20070809035852.GB4554@waltdnes.org> <200708091032.30413.dbmacg@look.ca> Message-ID: <20070810145222.GA27688@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 10:32:30AM -0400, Duncan MacGregor wrote > Just 'Reseat the boards'. I did that. Now instead of coming up with no error message, but refusing to work, eth0 errors out at reboot, and ifconfig shows that it doesn't exist. And the internal dialup modem has also stopped working. I think that it's trying to tell me something. Yesterday wasn't all doom and gloom, however. I do have an AMD3000+ that has been patiently waiting in the wings to take over as my main machine. Cybersurf had promised to have ADSL functional at my new address by the end of Friday, Aug 10. Yesterday (Thursday the 9th) at around 7:00PM I noticed that the "WAN" light on my ADSL modem was solid on, instead of blinking. So I fired up Firfox, and away I went. 3 megabippies; and I can listen to 64 kbits audio streams again... wheee. With the network card, and now the internal modem gone, I think it's time to retire the Dell. Next month would be its 8th anniversary, and that is ancient for a PC. I... - tarred up /home/waltdnes on the Dell - copied it over to a 2 gig USB key fob - renamed /home/waltdnes on the AMD3000+ to /home/waltdnes.old - copied the tarball over to the AMD - untarred it I keep the backup machine synced so that it can act as a hot backup, so all other directories were mostly up to date. I only had to update one other directory. That was a relatively painless switchover. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 15:03:15 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:03:15 -0700 Subject: Bring on the iClones Message-ID: <3a97ef0708100803p3a728750p747ab5f9ed010005@mail.gmail.com> As soon here (there also a link on slashdot) http://www.popsci.com/popsci/technology/e7e48a137b144110vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html Has anyone ever played with one of these various clones? From what I've heard the functionality is pretty good, and many are based on software built upon linux but made to copy the original functionality. I wonder how hackable the clones are... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 15:59:54 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:59:54 -0400 Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday In-Reply-To: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <20070810155954.GB27688@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 06:28:35PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote > Make sure you get a license. I would like to point out to readers of the ***GREATER TORONTO AREA*** Linux Users Group the supreme sacrifice by Major General Sir Isaac Brock, and many other brave soldiers like him. Thanks to their sacrifices, Toronto and the rest of Canada are subject to the laws listed at http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en and *NOT* the laws listed at http://www.usa.gov/Topics/Reference_Shelf/Laws.shtml Check with a licenced lawyer in your jurisdiction for the final answer. The US is slowly expanding its copyright terms to approach infinity. In Canada (and most of the rest of the world) recordings made in 1956 are public domain. I would advise caution about any trips to the USA. Don't take an mp3 player with any music with you to the US. A music collection that is public domain in Canada might not be so in the USA -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 17:04:12 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:04:12 -0700 Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday In-Reply-To: <20070810155954.GB27688-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070810155954.GB27688@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <3a97ef0708101004w6e7ce773te01ff351296a8986@mail.gmail.com> OK, so now my question would be: If a company - such as for example Swiss Chalet - which has American offices, sings a US copyrighted song that isn't such in Canada... could they still be sued? One might want to remember the fate of the neteller execs when they had a connecting flight through the US: http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/19/0035220 >From what I remember of this case, the gentlemen in question were actually not even decision-makers, but rather shareholders, and I've even heard that they'd left that role before the new US law went into effect. You might think "it won't happen to me", but I suppose that those execs, or others such as Mr Arar though the same. Heck, if you're into online gambling, or have Cuban Cigars in your luggage, I'd be careful that your non-US flight doesn't have to have some form of diversion or emergency landing in US soil... it's just scary. On 8/10/07, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 06:28:35PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote > > Make sure you get a license. > > I would like to point out to readers of the ***GREATER TORONTO AREA*** > Linux Users Group the supreme sacrifice by Major General Sir Isaac Brock, > and many other brave soldiers like him. Thanks to their sacrifices, > Toronto and the rest of Canada are subject to the laws listed at > http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en and *NOT* the laws listed at > http://www.usa.gov/Topics/Reference_Shelf/Laws.shtml Check with a > licenced lawyer in your jurisdiction for the final answer. > > The US is slowly expanding its copyright terms to approach infinity. > In Canada (and most of the rest of the world) recordings made in 1956 > are public domain. I would advise caution about any trips to the USA. > Don't take an mp3 player with any music with you to the US. A music > collection that is public domain in Canada might not be so in the USA > > -- > Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 > Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? > A. I think it would be a good idea. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 17:54:56 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 13:54:56 -0400 Subject: USB portable drive weirdness In-Reply-To: <20070810011049.GA6962-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070808162036.GA27526@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <434388.14095.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070809204001.GA31315@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <20070810011049.GA6962@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <46BCA670.9000902@ve3syb.ca> William Park wrote: > On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 04:40:01PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > Even with Y-cable, you have to plug into "powered" USB ports. 500mA is > the max, but only for initial surge. I believe steady-state max is > about half of that (can't remember). Wikipedia has some information about the available power from USB ports at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usb#Power. Quoting from that page: "Initially, a device is only allowed to draw 100 mA. It may request more current from the upstream device in units of 100 mA up to a maximum of 500 mA. If a bus-powered hub is used, the devices downstream may only use a total of four units ? 400 mA ? of current. This limits compliant bus-powered hubs to 4 ports. The host operating system typically keeps track of the power requirements of the USB network and may warn the computer's operator when a given segment requires more power than is available." Bottom line is you can be certain to have 100mA available for a device. More than that is likely to be available. 500mA is likely to be pushing the limits of what some computers will let you have. The number of USB ports might have something to do with how much power each port is allowed to have. My old PII computer which had only two USB 1 ports could charge my PDA via its sync cable after a few hours. My new "state of the art" Core 2 Duo machine with its 6 (or is it 8?) ports takes longer to charge the PDA when using just the sync cable. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 19:11:10 2007 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:11:10 -0400 Subject: USB portable drive weirdness In-Reply-To: <200708081239.28198.dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM@public.gmane.org> References: <20070808152257.GB27323@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <3a97ef0708080909l703c60f4n77050d999f53ce99@mail.gmail.com> <20070808162036.GA27526@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <200708081239.28198.dbmacg@look.ca> Message-ID: <20070810191110.GG16015@amtoo.utoronto.ca> On Wed, Aug 08, 2007 at 12:39:28PM -0400, Duncan MacGregor wrote: > I found that the answer was to buy a powered USB hub with a good power supply. > After buying two cheap hubs with small power supplies (one unmarked, and one > rated at 1 amp), I went to Sourcecc (useta be Radio Shack) and got a 4-port > hub with a 2.5amp power supply. Now everything works fine. That's it, exactly. I bought an independently-powered USB hub (2.4amps) and plugged it in. Now everything Just Works. Thanks to one and all for the advice. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A2 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 20:59:07 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:59:07 -0400 Subject: cat 5 & electrical Message-ID: <46BCD19B.9050309@chrisaitken.net> Can you lay cat 5 alongside electrical wire in the wall frame (pre-drywall) or is there disturbance/heat or any other problem? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 21:23:00 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 17:23:00 -0400 Subject: Groklaw - Court Rules: Novell owns the UNIX and UnixWare copyrights! Novell has right to waive! Message-ID: <46BCD734.7000103@rogers.com> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070810165237718 -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 21:30:28 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 17:30:28 -0400 Subject: cat 5 & electrical In-Reply-To: <46BCD19B.9050309-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <46BCD19B.9050309@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <46BCD8F4.8020309@rogers.com> Chris Aitken wrote: > Can you lay cat 5 alongside electrical wire in the wall frame > (pre-drywall) or is there disturbance/heat or any other problem? While it's always a good idea to keep data and power separate, there is no interference issue between them. The 60 Hz AC frequency is far removed from the frequencies used in ethernet. Also, ethernet was designed to share multipair cables with phone systems, where the frequencies are also much higher than 60 Hz. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 21:48:10 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 17:48:10 -0400 Subject: And that wasn' t the only good news (was Re:Groklaw - Court Rules: Novell owns the UNIX and UnixWare copyrights!...) In-Reply-To: <46BCD734.7000103-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46BCD734.7000103@rogers.com> Message-ID: <46BCDD1A.3080800@telly.org> James Knott wrote: > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070810165237718 > More good news: A key decision to determine the USA official position the OpenXML file format as a standard went AGAINST Microsoft by a narrow vote. As a result the US will be heavily pressured to stand against endorsement if OpenXML ever gets to an acceptance vote at ISO. http://www.consortiuminfo.org/standardsblog/article.php?story=20070810112044631 - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 21:49:49 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 17:49:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Groklaw - Court Rules: Novell owns the UNIX and UnixWare copyrights! Novell has right to waive! In-Reply-To: <46BCD734.7000103-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46BCD734.7000103@rogers.com> Message-ID: <741025.99448.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- James Knott wrote: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070810165237718 FANTASTIC!!! Quick reading of the article, Novell owns the Unixware copyrights!, Novell has every right to waive any infringement issues with IBM, so now there is ZERO question regarding IBM having done anything wrong (IBM having maintained that they didn't do anything outside the letter of their agreements, and didn't require Novell's blessing, that point is now irrelevant). Further the judge noted that SCO owes Novell $ for the licenses sold to Microsoft and Sun, how much is still to be decided. This will almost certainly bankrupt SCO. Also, while SCO's case against IBM is now decapitated and gutted, IBM's case against SCO is untouched. So, if by miracle (and that is what it will take) SCO does survive the current encounter with Novell, IBM will kill the company... A great day :-) . Colin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 22:05:41 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:05:41 -0400 Subject: And that wasn' t the only good news (was Re:Groklaw - Court Rules: Novell owns the UNIX and UnixWare copyrights!...) In-Reply-To: <46BCDD1A.3080800-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <46BCD734.7000103@rogers.com> <46BCDD1A.3080800@telly.org> Message-ID: <46BCE135.1010107@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > James Knott wrote: > >> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070810165237718 >> >> > More good news: A key decision to determine the USA official position > the OpenXML file format as a standard went AGAINST Microsoft by a > narrow vote. As a result the US will be heavily pressured to stand > against endorsement if OpenXML ever gets to an acceptance vote at ISO. > > http://www.consortiuminfo.org/standardsblog/article.php?story=20070810112044631 > > That article was also covered on Groklaw. Groklaw is an excellent site for following this sort of thing. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 22:09:00 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:09:00 -0400 Subject: Groklaw - Court Rules: Novell owns the UNIX and UnixWare copyrights! Novell has right to waive! In-Reply-To: <741025.99448.qm-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <741025.99448.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46BCE1FC.5070600@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > --- James Knott wrote: > > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070810165237718 > > FANTASTIC!!! > > Quick reading of the article, Novell owns the Unixware > copyrights!, Novell has every right to waive any > infringement issues with IBM, so now there is ZERO > question regarding IBM having done anything wrong (IBM > having maintained that they didn't do anything outside > the letter of their agreements, and didn't require > Novell's blessing, that point is now irrelevant). > > Further the judge noted that SCO owes Novell $ for the > licenses sold to Microsoft and Sun, how much is still > to be decided. This will almost certainly bankrupt > SCO. > > Also, while SCO's case against IBM is now decapitated > and gutted, IBM's case against SCO is untouched. So, > if by miracle (and that is what it will take) SCO does > survive the current encounter with Novell, IBM will > kill the company... > > A great day :-) . > > Essentially, SCO lost their claims, but the Novell and IBM counterclaims stand. It sure sounds like launching those claims and others wasn't such a good idea. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 01:52:11 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 21:52:11 -0400 Subject: cat 5 & electrical In-Reply-To: <46BCD8F4.8020309-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46BCD19B.9050309@chrisaitken.net> <46BCD8F4.8020309@rogers.com> Message-ID: <46BD164B.9060400@chrisaitken.net> James Knott wrote: >Chris Aitken wrote: > > >>Can you lay cat 5 alongside electrical wire in the wall frame >>(pre-drywall) or is there disturbance/heat or any other problem? >> >> >While it's always a good idea to keep data and power separate, there is >no interference issue between them. The 60 Hz AC frequency is far >removed from the frequencies used in ethernet. Also, ethernet was >designed to share multipair cables with phone systems, where the >frequencies are also much higher than 60 Hz. > > Thanks. We're getting an electrician to inspect it and he wants to see separate holes minimum six inches apart - so we're going with that. Thanks, Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 02:17:04 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 22:17:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: cat 5 & electrical In-Reply-To: <46BD164B.9060400-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <46BD164B.9060400@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <286450.54510.qm@web88213.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Chris Aitken wrote: > James Knott wrote: > > >Chris Aitken wrote: > > > > > >>Can you lay cat 5 alongside electrical wire in the > wall frame > >>(pre-drywall) or is there disturbance/heat or any > other problem? > >> > >> > >While it's always a good idea to keep data and > power separate, there is > >no interference issue between them. The 60 Hz AC > frequency is far > >removed from the frequencies used in ethernet. > Also, ethernet was > >designed to share multipair cables with phone > systems, where the > >frequencies are also much higher than 60 Hz. > > > > > Thanks. We're getting an electrician to inspect it > and he wants to see > separate holes minimum six inches apart - so we're > going with that. Have a look at: http://www.siemon.com/us/white_papers/99-07-15-nextgencabling.asp Bottom line in these folks view is that while not legally required 24 inches is recommended... Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 02:35:53 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 22:35:53 -0400 Subject: cat 5 & electrical In-Reply-To: <286450.54510.qm-iqFe0qLNPGCB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <286450.54510.qm@web88213.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46BD2089.8090607@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > --- Chris Aitken wrote: > >> James Knott wrote: >> >> >>> Chris Aitken wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Can you lay cat 5 alongside electrical wire in the >>>> >> wall frame >> >>>> (pre-drywall) or is there disturbance/heat or any >>>> >> other problem? >> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> While it's always a good idea to keep data and >>> >> power separate, there is >> >>> no interference issue between them. The 60 Hz AC >>> >> frequency is far >> >>> removed from the frequencies used in ethernet. >>> >> Also, ethernet was >> >>> designed to share multipair cables with phone >>> >> systems, where the >> >>> frequencies are also much higher than 60 Hz. >>> >>> >>> >> Thanks. We're getting an electrician to inspect it >> and he wants to see >> separate holes minimum six inches apart - so we're >> going with that. >> > > Have a look at: > > http://www.siemon.com/us/white_papers/99-07-15-nextgencabling.asp > > Bottom line in these folks view is that while not > legally required 24 inches is recommended... > > > I wonder what they base that on? As the safety specs say, the cables can be close, provided there's a conduit or raceway of some type protecting them. And as I mentioned, the frequencies in question are too far apart for interference to be an issue. Sure more distance is nice, but not always attainable. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 02:52:18 2007 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 22:52:18 -0400 Subject: Groklaw - Court Rules: Novell owns the UNIX and UnixWare copyrights! Novell has right to waive! In-Reply-To: <46BCE1FC.5070600-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <741025.99448.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46BCE1FC.5070600@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200708102252.19591.glayng@sympatico.ca> Of course you realize that the stock price of SCO is just going to soar to the Moon on Monday. It always goes up on bad news, down on good. It's kinda backwards that way. ^_^ Me, I'm buying stock in chair manufacturers. On Friday 10 August 2007 18:09, James Knott wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > > --- James Knott wrote: > > > > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070810165237718 > > > > FANTASTIC!!! > > > > Quick reading of the article, Novell owns the Unixware > > copyrights!, Novell has every right to waive any > > infringement issues with IBM, so now there is ZERO > > question regarding IBM having done anything wrong (IBM > > having maintained that they didn't do anything outside > > the letter of their agreements, and didn't require > > Novell's blessing, that point is now irrelevant). > > > > Further the judge noted that SCO owes Novell $ for the > > licenses sold to Microsoft and Sun, how much is still > > to be decided. This will almost certainly bankrupt > > SCO. > > > > Also, while SCO's case against IBM is now decapitated > > and gutted, IBM's case against SCO is untouched. So, > > if by miracle (and that is what it will take) SCO does > > survive the current encounter with Novell, IBM will > > kill the company... > > > > A great day :-) . > > Essentially, SCO lost their claims, but the Novell and IBM counterclaims > stand. It sure sounds like launching those claims and others wasn't such > a good idea. ;-) -- there's no place like 127.0.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 15:16:28 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 11:16:28 -0400 Subject: cat 5 & electrical In-Reply-To: <46BD2089.8090607-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <286450.54510.qm@web88213.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46BD2089.8090607@rogers.com> Message-ID: <46BDD2CC.2040405@chrisaitken.net> James Knott wrote: >Colin McGregor wrote: > > >>--- Chris Aitken wrote: >> >> >I wonder what they base that on? As the safety specs say, the cables >can be close, provided there's a conduit or raceway of some type >protecting them. And as I mentioned, the frequencies in question are >too far apart for interference to be an issue. Sure more distance is >nice, but not always attainable. > > Now we've decided that although the cat 5 will be in separate holes (than the electrical wire), we want to put two cables in the cat 5 holes. Any crosstalk problem with that? Chris > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 15:59:56 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 11:59:56 -0400 Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0708101004w6e7ce773te01ff351296a8986-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070810155954.GB27688@waltdnes.org> <3a97ef0708101004w6e7ce773te01ff351296a8986@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070811155956.GB5433@waltdnes.org> On Fri, Aug 10, 2007 at 10:04:12AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote > OK, so now my question would be: If a company - such as for example > Swiss Chalet - which has American offices, sings a US copyrighted song > that isn't such in Canada... could they still be sued? > > One might want to remember the fate of the neteller execs when they > had a connecting flight through the US: > > http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/19/0035220 > > From what I remember of this case, the gentlemen in question were > actually not even decision-makers, but rather shareholders, and I've > even heard that they'd left that role before the new US law went into > effect. > > You might think "it won't happen to me", but I suppose that those > execs, or others such as Mr Arar though the same. Heck, if you're into > online gambling, or have Cuban Cigars in your luggage, I'd be careful > that your non-US flight doesn't have to have some form of diversion or > emergency landing in US soil... it's just scary. As a lifelong small-c conservative, I never thought I'd ever say this, but the collapse of the USSR has been a bad thing for the rest of the world. The US is the only bully left in the schoolyard, and it can do what it damn well pleases. Who ya going to turn to to help you against them? -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 16:52:26 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:52:26 -0400 Subject: cat 5 & electrical In-Reply-To: <46BDD2CC.2040405-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <286450.54510.qm@web88213.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46BD2089.8090607@rogers.com> <46BDD2CC.2040405@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <46BDE94A.5060701@rogers.com> Chris Aitken wrote: > James Knott wrote: > >> Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> >>> --- Chris Aitken wrote: >>> > > >> I wonder what they base that on? As the safety specs say, the cables >> can be close, provided there's a conduit or raceway of some type >> protecting them. And as I mentioned, the frequencies in question are >> too far apart for interference to be an issue. Sure more distance is >> nice, but not always attainable. >> >> > Now we've decided that although the cat 5 will be in separate holes > (than the electrical wire), we want to put two cables in the cat 5 > holes. Any crosstalk problem with that? > Not likely. When the engineers set the maximum recommended length, they considered crosstalk within the cable. The pairs in another cable would not be as close, as those within the same cable. Also, crosstalk does not occur only at the ends. It is distributed along the entire length of the cable and the cables would likely not be in such close proximity anywhere else. Also that sort of thing tends to become critical only at the extremes of allowed cable length. One thing that is important is to not use staples that crush the cable. It's best to use the plastic clips or cable ties to hold the cable in place. Crushing the cable can cause a discontinuity of the cable characteristics, which could lead to signal degradation. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 16:58:54 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:58:54 -0400 Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday In-Reply-To: <20070811155956.GB5433-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070810155954.GB27688@waltdnes.org> <3a97ef0708101004w6e7ce773te01ff351296a8986@mail.gmail.com> <20070811155956.GB5433@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <46BDEACE.8040304@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > On Fri, Aug 10, 2007 at 10:04:12AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote > >> OK, so now my question would be: If a company - such as for example >> Swiss Chalet - which has American offices, sings a US copyrighted song >> that isn't such in Canada... could they still be sued? >> >> One might want to remember the fate of the neteller execs when they >> had a connecting flight through the US: >> >> http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/19/0035220 >> >> From what I remember of this case, the gentlemen in question were >> actually not even decision-makers, but rather shareholders, and I've >> even heard that they'd left that role before the new US law went into >> effect. >> >> You might think "it won't happen to me", but I suppose that those >> execs, or others such as Mr Arar though the same. Heck, if you're into >> online gambling, or have Cuban Cigars in your luggage, I'd be careful >> that your non-US flight doesn't have to have some form of diversion or >> emergency landing in US soil... it's just scary. >> > > As a lifelong small-c conservative, I never thought I'd ever say this, > but the collapse of the USSR has been a bad thing for the rest of the > world. The US is the only bully left in the schoolyard, and it can do > what it damn well pleases. Who ya going to turn to to help you against > them? > > FWIW, I saw that the music was from the 19th century and the words were copyright in 1935. I would assume they were copyright only in English, so I suppose the French version could be performed legally. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 18:04:56 2007 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 18:04:56 +0000 Subject: cat 5 & electrical In-Reply-To: <46BD164B.9060400-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <46BCD19B.9050309@chrisaitken.net> <46BCD8F4.8020309@rogers.com> <46BD164B.9060400@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <1186855496.8677.6.camel@ubuntu> On Fri, 2007-08-10 at 21:52 -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > Thanks. We're getting an electrician to inspect it and he wants to see > separate holes minimum six inches apart - so we're going with that. > Yup, that's a standard electrical practise, and it might actually be set out in the electrical code. Not required for this particular case, but a general requirement for building wiring to keep communication and power wiring separate. -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 18:12:24 2007 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 18:12:24 +0000 Subject: More fun with laptop batteries - now a science project where you can take part! Message-ID: <1186855944.8677.14.camel@ubuntu> Apparently the random shutting down isn't a problem with my tablet. Electrovaya would prefer if you stopped at the end of that previous sentence, but they've pretty much admitted that it's a design problem with all scribbler tablets. I was just the first to find it. Here comes the fun part where you get to join in! I could really use some data points on what happens with other manufacturers doing exactly the same procedure. I've listed the test protocol below. If you have a laptop and have a chance anytime in the next week, I would really appreciate if you try this and let me know the results. If you can't take the time to follow the steps exactly, but somehow just drain the battery out under normal use and let me know the results, that works too but I need to know that you didn't follow the protocol so the data can be accurately interpreted. 1. Start with batteries fully charged and the laptop off (preferably for a long time so any thermals have settled) 2. Boot and login as normal 3. Change the power scheme to "always on" (or anything that won't suspend or turn off the screen) 4. Keep the battery meter window open so you can tell how low the battery gets. Start a stop watch for runtime if you can. 5. Start a scan of the hard disk for errors, including checking for bad sectors. All this does is make sure the hard drive is working continuously. When the scan completes, start it again. 6. Time how long it takes, and what ends up happening when the batteries run low. Does it suspend when you expect it to? Hibernate? Do anything unusual, such as just shutdown? What's the lowest point the battery gets to? Thanks in advance for your help with this! -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 18:18:38 2007 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 14:18:38 -0400 Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday In-Reply-To: <20070811155956.GB5433-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070810155954.GB27688@waltdnes.org> <3a97ef0708101004w6e7ce773te01ff351296a8986@mail.gmail.com> <20070811155956.GB5433@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1186856318.8677.19.camel@ubuntu> On Sat, 2007-08-11 at 11:59 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > As a lifelong small-c conservative, I never thought I'd ever say this, > but the collapse of the USSR has been a bad thing for the rest of the > world. The US is the only bully left in the schoolyard, and it can do > what it damn well pleases. Who ya going to turn to to help you against > them? China. I for one welcome our new communist overlords! (yes folks that was sarcasm. the scariest part is that the Chinese copyright laws might make more sense then what the Americans are doing). -kms -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 19:24:14 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:24:14 -0400 Subject: SElinux help Message-ID: <20070811192414.GA4830@watson-wilson.ca> Hello, I'm trying to enable SElinux on a Debian server. I've followed this article: http://wiki.debian.org/SELinux All goes well in the setup section until step 8. ettin:~# check-selinux-installation ../proc/1 kernel.. SELinux is not enabled. The init process (PID 1) is running in an incorrect domain. Old style ttys were found. Dynamic motd updating is enabled SELinux shows not enabled. However, lilo.conf shows this: image = /vmlinuz append = " selinux=1" initrd = /initrd.img root = /dev/hdb1 label = debian read-only Further: ettin:~# setenforce 1 setenforce: SELinux is disabled I noticed at boot time there seems some sort of dump/stack trace related to SELinux. Alas, this error is not logged any where. Can anyone offer any tips? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 15:18:28 up 15 min, 3 users, load average: 0.13, 0.20, 0.23 http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 19:42:22 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:42:22 -0400 Subject: Dell Inspiron 530 compatability questions before buying Message-ID: <20070811194222.GA6070@waltdnes.org> Anybody have experience with this machine under linux? Since my 1999 Dell lasted almost 8 years, I'm willing to pay a bit extra. Oh yeah, price reduced at dell.ca by $300, expires the 16th. I'm not looking at the low-end Celeron version, but the Pentium dual core processor version. According to a response on the Gentoo list, the integrated "Graphics Media Accelerator 3100" is well-supported. I don't like the idea of binary blobs for Nvidia that work with the current kernel, but break when you update the kernel. And as for ATI, fglrx has caused the only hard lockups I have experienced in linux in the past couple of years. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 19:57:01 2007 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:57:01 -0400 Subject: Groklaw - Court Rules: Novell owns the UNIX and UnixWare copyrights! Novell has right to waive! In-Reply-To: <46BCE1FC.5070600-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <741025.99448.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46BCE1FC.5070600@rogers.com> Message-ID: <46BE148D.3060100@gmail.com> I hope that Novell and IBM do the right thing. That is, knock SCO out, like SCO wanted to knock them out. Dont let your enemy fight another day. James Knott wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > >> --- James Knott wrote: >> >> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070810165237718 >> >> FANTASTIC!!! >> >> Quick reading of the article, Novell owns the Unixware >> copyrights!, Novell has every right to waive any >> infringement issues with IBM, so now there is ZERO >> question regarding IBM having done anything wrong (IBM >> having maintained that they didn't do anything outside >> the letter of their agreements, and didn't require >> Novell's blessing, that point is now irrelevant). >> >> Further the judge noted that SCO owes Novell $ for the >> licenses sold to Microsoft and Sun, how much is still >> to be decided. This will almost certainly bankrupt >> SCO. >> >> Also, while SCO's case against IBM is now decapitated >> and gutted, IBM's case against SCO is untouched. So, >> if by miracle (and that is what it will take) SCO does >> survive the current encounter with Novell, IBM will >> kill the company... >> >> A great day :-) . >> >> >> > > Essentially, SCO lost their claims, but the Novell and IBM counterclaims > stand. It sure sounds like launching those claims and others wasn't such > a good idea. ;-) > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 20:19:50 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 16:19:50 -0400 Subject: Groklaw - Court Rules: Novell owns the UNIX and UnixWare copyrights! Novell has right to waive! In-Reply-To: <46BE148D.3060100-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <741025.99448.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46BCE1FC.5070600@rogers.com> <46BE148D.3060100@gmail.com> Message-ID: <46BE19E6.6090302@rogers.com> Teddy Mills wrote: > > I hope that Novell and IBM do the right thing. > That is, knock SCO out, like SCO wanted to knock them out. > Dont let your enemy fight another day. > At this point, I don't think it will take much to knock them out. According to what I've read, the only year they made money, was when they had those deals with MS and Sun. Now, what happens is they have to find out how much they owe Novell for those deals. They will likely owe more than they're worth. There are also a couple of things in that ruling that could lead to criminal charges against the principals at SCO. One of those is "conversion" of the money they owed Novell. Another is the fact that even though they knew they didn't own the copyrights, they still launched the suits, as though they did. For those sorts of fraudulent action, the directors can be held personally liable. Also, a couple of weeks ago, SCO announced some new deal (I've forgotten the details). I wonder how long that will last? -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 21:20:48 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 17:20:48 -0400 Subject: Bring on the iClones In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0708100803p3a728750p747ab5f9ed010005-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0708100803p3a728750p747ab5f9ed010005@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990708111420t3b7974dgc41e345d3d6ff977@mail.gmail.com> On 8/10/07, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Has anyone ever played with one of these various clones? From what > I've heard the functionality is pretty good, and many are based on > software built upon linux but made to copy the original functionality. > > I wonder how hackable the clones are... Just go with something which was designed to be open and hackable for all its hardware and software.. http://www.openmoko.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 22:14:57 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 18:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Groklaw - Court Rules: Novell owns the UNIX and UnixWare copyrights! Novell has right to waive! In-Reply-To: <46BE19E6.6090302-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <741025.99448.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46BCE1FC.5070600@rogers.com> <46BE148D.3060100@gmail.com> <46BE19E6.6090302@rogers.com> Message-ID: <6239.74.99.30.125.1186870497.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Teddy Mills wrote: >> >> I hope that Novell and IBM do the right thing. >> That is, knock SCO out, like SCO wanted to knock them out. >> Dont let your enemy fight another day. >> If SCO was a stalking-horse for M$ to propagate FUD - as some have suggested - then this is not the end of the story. The threat of patent suits doesn't seem to have gotten much traction. It will be interesting to see what is the next FUD Offensive. On the other hand, the current M$ policy to embrace Open Source in certain areas is much more unsettling than any of the FUD. It's like hearing George W. Bush announce that there are certain positive aspects to Communism. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 22:21:22 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 18:21:22 -0400 Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0708101004w6e7ce773te01ff351296a8986-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070810155954.GB27688@waltdnes.org> <3a97ef0708101004w6e7ce773te01ff351296a8986@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990708111521h103e0a0fl167db48074e50228@mail.gmail.com> On 8/10/07, Tyler Aviss wrote: > You might think "it won't happen to me", but I suppose that those > execs, or others such as Mr Arar though the same. Heck, if you're into > online gambling, or have Cuban Cigars in your luggage, I'd be careful > that your non-US flight doesn't have to have some form of diversion or > emergency landing in US soil... it's just scary. Well that just stopped me from ever getting on a plane.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 00:12:02 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 20:12:02 -0400 Subject: UserFriendly Strip Comments In-Reply-To: <46BBB489.3080302-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46BBB489.3080302@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990708111712m22760159p53a6eaca323b37a2@mail.gmail.com> On 8/9/07, James Knott wrote: > > http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20070711 yes? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 02:21:14 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 22:21:14 -0400 Subject: New Laptop and 802.11 In-Reply-To: <46B70F69.2040500-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <60047.208.72.127.64.1186336344.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> <46B70F69.2040500@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070812022114.GA25648@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 06, 2007 at 08:09:13AM -0400, Frank wrote: > Well, life is full of mixed emotions. My wife bought me an early > Christmas present. A nice new Acer Aspire 5100 laptop. Hence my happiness. > > The bad news is that installing Kubuntu 7.04 doesn't find the built-in > wifi and will require some fiddling on my part. So my love of Kubuntu > has dropped a touch. In the meantime my wife is depressed because she > figures I have a defective laptop because I haven't used it wirelessly > yet and I keep telling her to "be patient, Linux and wireless aren't a > perfect couple yet". Which wireless chipset? Many laptops have intel wireless, which generally works very well. Broadcom is often near imposible to make work. Atheros may work great or not at all, depending on the chip type (newer ones generally work very badly or not at all, while old ones worked very easily). If you want a laptop that works with linux, the centrino logo is actually not a bad thing to look for. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 02:25:27 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 22:25:27 -0400 Subject: Dell Inspiron 530 compatability questions before buying In-Reply-To: <20070811194222.GA6070-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070811194222.GA6070@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20070812022527.GB25648@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Aug 11, 2007 at 03:42:22PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > Anybody have experience with this machine under linux? Since my > 1999 Dell lasted almost 8 years, I'm willing to pay a bit extra. Oh > yeah, price reduced at dell.ca by $300, expires the 16th. I'm not > looking at the low-end Celeron version, but the Pentium dual core > processor version. Wow a Dell laptop that lasted 8 years? From what I read a lot of the Dell Inspiron laptops you are lucky if they stay working more than 6 months past the end of warrenty. Nice class action suits taking place against Dell as a result. And you really don't want a Pentium anything. You want a Core based system instead. Currently I am starting to think Asus will be my choice for laptop vendor (they have been my choice of mainboard vendor for 15 years). > According to a response on the Gentoo list, the integrated "Graphics > Media Accelerator 3100" is well-supported. I don't like the idea of > binary blobs for Nvidia that work with the current kernel, but break > when you update the kernel. And as for ATI, fglrx has caused the only > hard lockups I have experienced in linux in the past couple of years. Well if you don't care about 3D, nvidia's work fine with the nv driver. The intel works fine too, but I have no idea if the 3100 has any 3D support yet (some of the older ones certainly do, although fast they aren't). I won't touch ATI's mobile chips either. Too many driver lockups. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 02:54:38 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 22:54:38 -0400 Subject: Dell Inspiron 530 compatability questions before buying In-Reply-To: <20070812022527.GB25648-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070811194222.GA6070@waltdnes.org> <20070812022527.GB25648@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <46BE766E.1060300@utoronto.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Aug 11, 2007 at 03:42:22PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: >> Anybody have experience with this machine under linux? Since my >> 1999 Dell lasted almost 8 years, I'm willing to pay a bit extra. Oh >> yeah, price reduced at dell.ca by $300, expires the 16th. I'm not >> looking at the low-end Celeron version, but the Pentium dual core >> processor version. > > Wow a Dell laptop that lasted 8 years? From what I read a lot of the > Dell Inspiron laptops you are lucky if they stay working more than 6 > months past the end of warrenty. Nice class action suits taking place > against Dell as a result. > > And you really don't want a Pentium anything. You want a Core based > system instead. > > Currently I am starting to think Asus will be my choice for laptop > vendor (they have been my choice of mainboard vendor for 15 years). I built my ASUS laptop from a barebones chassis bought at College and Spadina (Filtech). Pick your CPU, RAM, HDD, put it all together. In 3 years it has taken quite a few beatings but the thing has a carbon fiber chassis so it's lifespan won't be shortened by any abuse I throw at it. It's seen a few Gentoo compiles, Fedoras, Suse (before it was evil), Ubuntu, and Debian Sarge, Etch, and now unstable. Everything has just worked, including the ATI video card. Can't say enough good things about the quality of their laptops. >> According to a response on the Gentoo list, the integrated "Graphics >> Media Accelerator 3100" is well-supported. I don't like the idea of >> binary blobs for Nvidia that work with the current kernel, but break >> when you update the kernel. And as for ATI, fglrx has caused the only >> hard lockups I have experienced in linux in the past couple of years. > > Well if you don't care about 3D, nvidia's work fine with the nv driver. > The intel works fine too, but I have no idea if the 3100 has any 3D > support yet (some of the older ones certainly do, although fast they > aren't). I won't touch ATI's mobile chips either. Too many driver > lockups. The radeon driver is fabulous with my 9700 mobile, I haven't had any trouble with it such that I just don't bother with the fglrx blob. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 04:53:41 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 00:53:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Dell Inspiron 530 compatability questions before buying In-Reply-To: <20070812022527.GB25648-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070811194222.GA6070@waltdnes.org> <20070812022527.GB25648@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Sat, Aug 11, 2007 at 03:42:22PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: | > I'm not | > looking at the low-end Celeron version, but the Pentium dual core | > processor version. | And you really don't want a Pentium anything. You want a Core based | system instead. You've been fooled. "Pentium Dual Core" is what Intel is calling cost-reduced processors based on the same technology as Core Duo or Core 2 Duo processors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_Dual-Core And they've also got Celeron branded processors based on the Core technology. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celeron#Conroe-L Talk about confusing. Of course the name "Core" is rather convusing, Then Core Duo and Core 2 Duo. Sheeesh. Pentium is really a brand, not a technology. That's why I started http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pentium_brand&action=history last year. Unfortunately most wikipedia pages confuse branding with technology families. See, for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium Bottom line: I would guess that the Pentium Dual Core is a very cost-effective choice. I'd prefer the ones based on Core 2 Duo (Allendale) design: 64-bit instruction set perhaps VT, I don't know. Neither is very important for most lap-top uses. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 05:22:31 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 01:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: New Laptop and 802.11 In-Reply-To: <46B70F69.2040500-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <60047.208.72.127.64.1186336344.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> <46B70F69.2040500@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: Frank | Well, life is full of mixed emotions. My wife bought me an early Christmas | present. A nice new Acer Aspire 5100 laptop. Hence my happiness. | | The bad news is that installing Kubuntu 7.04 doesn't find the built-in wifi | and will require some fiddling on my part. I installed Feisty (Ubuntu 7.04) on an Acer Aspire 5570-2792. Such descriptive names Acer comes up with. I documented my experiences here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/AcerAspire5570-2792 In this case, the Atheros driver (MadWifi) recognized the hardware and tried to use it, but to no effect. I had to suppress MadWifi and use ndiswrapper. It too didn't work but I got the author to fix it on my machine! Those fixes went into CVS and have since been released. Probably not part of the Ubuntu repositories yet. I wish that MadWifi worked. The HAL balked but the diagnostic was useless. And the HAL is not opens source. Grrr. The notebook lives in another country so I don't get to experiment with it often. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 05:35:09 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 01:35:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday In-Reply-To: <46BDEACE.8040304-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070810155954.GB27688@waltdnes.org> <3a97ef0708101004w6e7ce773te01ff351296a8986@mail.gmail.com> <20070811155956.GB5433@waltdnes.org> <46BDEACE.8040304@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | FWIW, I saw that the music was from the 19th century and the words were | copyright in 1935. I would assume they were copyright only in English, | so I suppose the French version could be performed legally. I don't think so. They would have been created more recently and perhaps the author lived later. In the US, without registration, before they signed onto the Berne Convention (late 1970's I think), there would be no copyright. Here, things are born copyrighted without registration (Berne, again). This is complicated stuff. Just the kind of stuff we need consumers to understand! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 05:52:25 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 01:52:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: And that wasn' t the only good news (was Re:Groklaw - Court Rules: Novell owns the UNIX and UnixWare copyrights!...) In-Reply-To: <46BCDD1A.3080800-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <46BCD734.7000103@rogers.com> <46BCDD1A.3080800@telly.org> Message-ID: | From: Evan Leibovitch | More good news: A key decision to determine the USA official position | the OpenXML file format as a standard went AGAINST Microsoft by a | narrow vote. As a result the US will be heavily pressured to stand | against endorsement if OpenXML ever gets to an acceptance vote at ISO. | | http://www.consortiuminfo.org/standardsblog/article.php?story=20070810112044631 Evan: what's Canada up to on this? Do you know? BTW, the good news isn't 100% good. Most of the "no" votes were "no with comments". They switch to "yes" if the comments are addressed. Prepare for recursion. The comments on these votes were to the effect that the US should vote "no, with comments" with the comments being a selection of the technical public comments. If the US so votes, the US "no" becomes a "yes" if the comments are addressed (satisfactorily?). Since I don't know the actual technical comments, I cannot tell if that is a high bar. Besides, there are a couple of weeks left for backroom magic before the US vote is decided. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 06:58:35 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 06:58:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Groklaw - Court Rules: Novell owns the UNIX and UnixWare copyrights! Novell has right to waive! References: <741025.99448.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46BCE1FC.5070600@rogers.com> <46BE148D.3060100@gmail.com> <46BE19E6.6090302@rogers.com> <6239.74.99.30.125.1186870497.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: I think that the little bit of news that everyone missed in the general euphoria is going to come back and haunt somebody: According to some articles, SUN bought rights to Unix from SCO. But now it turns out that SCO never had those rights in the first place. So now SUN, the famous Unix software supplier, is p0wn3d by ... Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 07:00:58 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 07:00:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: UserFriendly Strip Comments References: <46BBB489.3080302@rogers.com> <1e55af990708111712m22760159p53a6eaca323b37a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > yes? Thank you for your comment ;-) Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 11:57:10 2007 From: erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Frank) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 07:57:10 -0400 Subject: New Laptop and 802.11 In-Reply-To: References: <60047.208.72.127.64.1186336344.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> <46B70F69.2040500@rogers.com> Message-ID: <46BEF596.1080303@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Frank > > | Well, life is full of mixed emotions. My wife bought me an early Christmas > | present. A nice new Acer Aspire 5100 laptop. Hence my happiness. > | > | The bad news is that installing Kubuntu 7.04 doesn't find the built-in wifi > | and will require some fiddling on my part. > > I installed Feisty (Ubuntu 7.04) on an Acer Aspire 5570-2792. Such > descriptive names Acer comes up with. I documented my experiences > here: > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/AcerAspire5570-2792 > > In this case, the Atheros driver (MadWifi) recognized the hardware and tried to > use it, but to no effect. > > I had to suppress MadWifi and use ndiswrapper. It too didn't work but > I got the author to fix it on my machine! Those fixes went into CVS > and have since been released. Probably not part of the Ubuntu > repositories yet. > > I wish that MadWifi worked. The HAL balked but the diagnostic was > useless. And the HAL is not opens source. Grrr. > > The notebook lives in another country so I don't get to experiment > with it often. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > Excellent! Mine is a 5100-5023. What I've done in the meantime is make the laptop dual-boot. It came with a Vista CD and I figured there may be times when my wife wants to use it (she hasn't converted to Kubuntu yet but the day is coming). So I have Vista and Kubuntu (64-bit AMD) installed. And now I'm reading up on ndiswrapper so I can make the next great leap forward. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 13:06:40 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 09:06:40 -0400 Subject: LCD monitors In-Reply-To: <20070807142012.GB29129-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070807142012.GB29129@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070812130640.GA31001@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 07, 2007 at 10:20:12AM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I am finally getting an LCD monitor, and I'm wondering if I have to do > anything over than 'dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg'? I've had the same > 17" CRT since I started using Linux in 2000, so I'm unsure if I need to > do anything special. dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg should be everything you need to do. > Also, is there a problem with the VGA-DVI adapters, or should things > "just work"? Thanks. There are DVI-I to VGA adapters, which simply allow you to connect VGA to a DVI-I port. You can not do the reverse and connect a DVI display to a VGA port. Most LCD screens include both DVI and VGA, although you should get a more stable display using DVI since there is no analog conversions involved. DVI-D ports only do DVI but most video cards are DVI-I. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 13:09:49 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 09:09:49 -0400 Subject: LCD monitors In-Reply-To: <4192.192.168.0.103.1186633415.squirrel-yQHV/pc6l8fuNdv6BosnGw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070807142012.GB29129@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1f13df280708071457w69b9bcfdhe6c8c66dff951ed8@mail.gmail.com> <61e9e2b10708081925u318d6238m9a16079c28972d0e@mail.gmail.com> <4192.192.168.0.103.1186633415.squirrel@www.lijour.net> Message-ID: <20070812130949.GB31001@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 12:23:35AM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > Do you have the name of the shop, and/or the nearest intersection? > I checked it out at tigerdirect.ca and it is about 270$. I am currently looking for something that will do 1920x1200, since I am moving away from a 21" CRT that does 1600x1200, and I just can't go down to 1680x1050. :) The Dell 2407WFP looks nice. > While you are at it, any recommendation for a good mobo doing RAID1 (and > Linux -should I mention that?)? Ignore any mention of raid on a motherboard. They are all just fake raid done by the bios and a windows driver. Much better to just treat it as a regular sata controller and use md software raid in linux. There are server boards with real raid built in, but I doubt that is what you are looking at. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 13:12:29 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 09:12:29 -0400 Subject: LCD monitors In-Reply-To: <1e55af990708091030n65715d40r40f0554b0dfdb755-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070807142012.GB29129@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1f13df280708071457w69b9bcfdhe6c8c66dff951ed8@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990708091030n65715d40r40f0554b0dfdb755@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070812131229.GC31001@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 01:30:11PM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > Everything these days will autodetect and turn off and give you a good > message about it. > > One note: There are some godawful LCDs coming out. The new low-end > 19" Dell screen I have for a spare computer at work will wash out a > lot of colours. People will look at it and insist that everything > looks good -- photographs and text all look good. But subtle colour > changes are NOT visible at all. Probably the 6bit/colour displays rather than 8bit/colour. > I can confirm this on other peoples screens too.. where they have > trouble distinguishing white from beige. They really do look pretty bad. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 13:22:51 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 09:22:51 -0400 Subject: pinning a process in memory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070812132251.GD31001@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 02:13:46PM -0400, jing wrote: > I have a dumb question which defeated my attempts at googling for an > answer. I know that there's a way to programmatically pin pages in > memory through the mlock call, but I want to pin a process in memory > from the command line. Anyone know what the magical incantation is > for this? > > Simply turning off swap isn't an option since I want to swap some apps > out. I just want a specific app to always stay in memory no matter > what. I believe the answer is that you can't do it. If a process wants to avoid swapping, the programmer should call mlock or mlockall. In general the memory manager in linux is very good, and you should never have any need to override it's behaviour. You may want to tune some of it's options for caching and such in /proc/sys. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 13:24:31 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 09:24:31 -0400 Subject: cat 5 & electrical In-Reply-To: <46BDD2CC.2040405-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <286450.54510.qm@web88213.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46BD2089.8090607@rogers.com> <46BDD2CC.2040405@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20070812132431.GE31001@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Aug 11, 2007 at 11:16:28AM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > Now we've decided that although the cat 5 will be in separate holes > (than the electrical wire), we want to put two cables in the cat 5 > holes. Any crosstalk problem with that? Why Cat5? You need 5e or 6 to run gigabit. Why would you wire with less than 5e anymore? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 13:32:27 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 09:32:27 -0400 Subject: Dell Inspiron 530 compatability questions before buying In-Reply-To: References: <20070811194222.GA6070@waltdnes.org> <20070812022527.GB25648@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070812133227.GF31001@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Aug 12, 2007 at 12:53:41AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > You've been fooled. "Pentium Dual Core" is what Intel is calling > cost-reduced processors based on the same technology as Core Duo or > Core 2 Duo processors. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_Dual-Core Hmm, that seems to be a recent change. Always trust intel to do a great job and confusing the hell out of their customers so that they will buy their old junk by accident. :) So the Pentium Dual Core T2060, T2080 and T2130 are old P6 designs, while the E2140 and E2160 are based on the Core architecture. > And they've also got Celeron branded > processors based on the Core technology. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celeron#Conroe-L > > Talk about confusing. Of course the name "Core" is rather convusing, > Then Core Duo and Core 2 Duo. Sheeesh. Yep, since the Core (no 2) are not Core achitecture, but instead P6 (Pentium M) based. > Pentium is really a brand, not a technology. That's why I started > http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pentium_brand&action=history > last year. Unfortunately most wikipedia pages confuse branding with > technology families. See, for example > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium > > Bottom line: I would guess that the Pentium Dual Core is a very > cost-effective choice. I'd prefer the ones based on Core 2 Duo > (Allendale) design: 64-bit instruction set perhaps VT, I don't know. > Neither is very important for most lap-top uses. The lower end Core 2 Duo mobile chips don't have VT, but the higher end ones do. Might be useful, might not. I am not sure yet. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 17:19:28 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 13:19:28 -0400 Subject: Bootloader problems & compiling for older kernels Message-ID: <99a6c38f0708121019l4087a40due1b44e58c4528afb@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I managed to acquire an ancient laptop in the last week for virtually nothing. The specs: Make/Model: HyperBook 600 from Hyperdata CPU: Pentium - 75Mhz Ram: 24Mb Hdd: 510Mb Bios: AMIBIOS (1993) Part 1 - Bootloaders I've got Win95b and Basic Linux 3.5* loaded onto the hard drive, but I can't seem to get either lilo or grub working properly: - Lilo can load linux, can't find chain.b to load Win95. - Grub can load Win95, but not linux (Error 17 - Can't mount partition) I built a Grub boot floppy (which was used to install grub to the MBR) and that works perfectly fine. All my googling about the Error 17 problem suggests that Grub may not work properly with such an old Hdd and BIOS. Does anyone have recommendations for other bootloaders? Part 2 - Compiling Basic Linux is very tiny (designed specifically for old laptops) and doesn't have much in the way of packages. IMO, it does an absolutely amazing job for fitting on two floppies. I'd like to compile some software for it using my development environment under Ubuntu Edgy. Besides ensuring that I have the right libraries, is there anything I need to watch out for - particularly as far as kernel differences go? My Edgy is using a 2.6.17 kernel, and Basic Linux is using a 2.2.16 (IIRC). Thanks in advance! - Scott. * Basic Linux: http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/baslinux/ -- Scott Elcomb [ http://www.psema4.com/ ] "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 19:02:08 2007 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 15:02:08 -0400 Subject: USB portable drive weirdness In-Reply-To: <20070810191110.GG16015-LMpBBneordZSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <20070808152257.GB27323@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <3a97ef0708080909l703c60f4n77050d999f53ce99@mail.gmail.com> <20070808162036.GA27526@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <200708081239.28198.dbmacg@look.ca> <20070810191110.GG16015@amtoo.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070812150208.90ecd472.hgibson@eol.ca> On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:11:10 -0400 Peter King wrote: > On Wed, Aug 08, 2007 at 12:39:28PM -0400, Duncan MacGregor wrote: > > > I found that the answer was to buy a powered USB hub with a good power supply. > > After buying two cheap hubs with small power supplies (one unmarked, and one > > rated at 1 amp), I went to Sourcecc (useta be Radio Shack) and got a 4-port > > hub with a 2.5amp power supply. Now everything works fine. > > That's it, exactly. I bought an independently-powered USB hub (2.4amps) and > plugged it in. Now everything Just Works. Thanks to one and all for the > advice. Paul, I am too late to be helpful, but this may help somebody else. I bought a USB hub for my desktop and it behaved erratically. I checked either /etc/messages or dmesg, and I saw a message that the USB hub was not receiving enough power. I bought a power supply, and everything worked. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 19:09:18 2007 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 15:09:18 -0400 Subject: OT: Not-so-precise Swiss army unit mistakenly invades Liechtenstein In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0708081630p7ea08677n2c25f155bb750822-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <46BA4AA5.9060504@utoronto.ca> <99a6c38f0708081630p7ea08677n2c25f155bb750822@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070812150918.afd9929a.hgibson@eol.ca> On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 19:30:39 -0400 "Scott Elcomb" wrote: > > If armed American soldiers ended up more than a Kilometer into Canada, > would the story be as funny? > > Yes this is way OT, but an interesting exercise nonetheless, IMO. Scott, I believe there was an incident in which the Italian army invaded Sweden. It was a NATO exercise. The airliner was diverted for some reason, the Italians were not told, and they were left wandering around a Swedish airport in full camo until someone figured what was going on. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 19:56:57 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 15:56:57 -0400 Subject: OT: Not-so-precise Swiss army unit mistakenly invades Liechtenstein In-Reply-To: <20070812150918.afd9929a.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46BA4AA5.9060504@utoronto.ca> <99a6c38f0708081630p7ea08677n2c25f155bb750822@mail.gmail.com> <20070812150918.afd9929a.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <46BF6609.5020609@rogers.com> Howard Gibson wrote: > On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 19:30:39 -0400 > "Scott Elcomb" wrote: > >> If armed American soldiers ended up more than a Kilometer into Canada, >> would the story be as funny? >> >> Yes this is way OT, but an interesting exercise nonetheless, IMO. >> > > Scott, > > I believe there was an incident in which the Italian army invaded Sweden. It was a NATO exercise. The airliner was diverted for some reason, the Italians were not told, and they were left wandering around a Swedish airport in full camo until someone figured what was going on. > > Then there was the Mexican "invasion" of the U.S., after Katrina. However, we should still keep an eye open for Viking longships around Hans Island. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 18:28:49 2007 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 14:28:49 -0400 Subject: New Computer Thread Back in March In-Reply-To: <46B602B2.1090708-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <46B31AC4.7070506@utoronto.ca> <20070803134849.GB14083@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46B3340F.1090401@utoronto.ca> <20070803140824.GC14083@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46B33BC0.7070502@utoronto.ca> <46B602B2.1090708@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070812142849.4239ec55.hgibson@eol.ca> On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 13:02:42 -0400 Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > I was told it's actually easier to make a big case quiet (the Sonata is > standard "mid-tower" shape) than a small one, as larger fans don't need > to turn as fast as small ones to move the same amount of air and it's > fan RPM that affects noise more than anything (which is why 1U cases are > so noisy). Evan, This is _one_ of the reasons airliners have switched from turbo-jets to the high bypass turbo-fans. If you move more air at a lower speed, you make less noise. If you look in a fan catalogue, you will see airflow and pressure curves and you will see the noise, usually ?in decibels. I have never tried to select a quiet fan, so I do not have a feel for this subject. My fans have to deliver airflow no matter how much stuff we put in front of them, the space for them is limited, and they go into aircraft where everything is noisy anyway. If you want to replace an existing fan, you should be able to remove it from your computer, identify the part number and search for the fan on the internet. You need to equal the airflow _and_ the back pressure (also called head), as well as the voltage. There might be a quieter one out there. Fan blades vary wildly in shape between fans that otherwise, would appear to be identical. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 18:43:37 2007 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 14:43:37 -0400 Subject: New Laptop and 802.11 In-Reply-To: <46B70F69.2040500-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <60047.208.72.127.64.1186336344.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> <46B70F69.2040500@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070812144337.e58fcf40.hgibson@eol.ca> On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 08:09:13 -0400 Frank wrote: > Well, life is full of mixed emotions. My wife bought me an early > Christmas present. A nice new Acer Aspire 5100 laptop. Hence my happiness. > > The bad news is that installing Kubuntu 7.04 doesn't find the built-in > wifi and will require some fiddling on my part. So my love of Kubuntu > has dropped a touch. In the meantime my wife is depressed because she > figures I have a defective laptop because I haven't used it wirelessly > yet and I keep telling her to "be patient, Linux and wireless aren't a > perfect couple yet". > > Frank in Mississauga Frank, My Acer Aspire 3620 has buttons and idiot lights that support wireless communications, but I eventually figured out that there are no wireless devices on it. I have to plug something in. Try `/sbin/lspci` and see what devices your computer recognizes. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 21:59:34 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 17:59:34 -0400 Subject: Groklaw - Ahem Message-ID: <46BF82C6.5090606@rogers.com> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070812141040179 ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 22:19:42 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 18:19:42 -0400 Subject: OT: Not-so-precise Swiss army unit mistakenly invades Liechtenstein In-Reply-To: <20070812150918.afd9929a.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46BA4AA5.9060504@utoronto.ca> <99a6c38f0708081630p7ea08677n2c25f155bb750822@mail.gmail.com> <20070812150918.afd9929a.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: On 8/12/07, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 19:30:39 -0400 > "Scott Elcomb" wrote: > > > > If armed American soldiers ended up more than a Kilometer into Canada, > > would the story be as funny? > > > > Yes this is way OT, but an interesting exercise nonetheless, IMO. > > Scott, > > I believe there was an incident in which the Italian army invaded Sweden. It was a NATO exercise. The airliner was diverted for some reason, the Italians were not told, and they were left wandering around a Swedish airport in full camo until someone figured what was going on. http://www.historyhouse.com/uts/pyrrhus/ No, the trouble was that they chartered a plane to go to Kristiansand, Norway, where the NATO exercises were being held. Unfortunately, due to some misreading somewhere, they wound up in Kristianstad, Sweden. It appears to have been blamed on the pilot. By the way, Sweden is NOT a member of NATO, so it can be argued that there was an "invasion" of sorts... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 22:46:03 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 18:46:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Detecting LCD Monitors. Message-ID: <36728.31085.qm@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I am looking for a painless way to detect if an LCD screen is connected to a box running a Ubuntu Live CD. The basic problem being I want the screen to have a resolution of at least 1024 x 768 and look good. CRTs with a 4:3 screen ratio can be forced to 1024 x 768 and be fairly sure (assuming the monitor can support 1024 x 768 at all) will look decent. Not so LCD screens, who I gather if you were to say try to force say a 1280 x 1024 to a 1024 x 768 resolution will look like @#$%. In other words the problem is along the following lines: If monitor = CRT then If supported resolution => 1024 x 768 then set resolution to 1024 x 768 else display error shutdown If monitor = LCD then If best supported resolution = 1024 x 768 then set resolution to 1024 x 768 else If best resolution < 1024 x 768 then display error shutdown else set to highest available resolution. With the Ubuntu Live CD /etc/X11/xorg.conf is basically useless for this, as it is always "generic monitor" , with only 1024x768 and lower resolutions listed. EDID is a standard that allows a video card to get some basic information about the monitor it is connected to. The problem is EDID data doesn't carry the two pieces of data I want most, is this an LCD screen and what is the native screen resolution. /var/log/xorg.0.log does list the EDID data and offers a way to get partway to my goal. xorg.0.log will identify which screen resolutions the screen does support, so if I see a 16:9 (widescreen) screen supported I suspect I am on fairly safe ground going to the highest 16:9 resolution. While detecting 16:9 helps, there is the issue of 4:3 LCD screens. EDID can carry manufacture name, and model information, so if I know that a Brand XYZ Model 42 monitor is an LCD I am good. But that leaves some ugly issues, putting together such a table of LCD screens and knowing that the software may get ugly the instant someone decides to use this live CD with the latest / greatest new LCD screens. Another issue, I have a no-name LCD screen where the manufacturer name was left blank in the EDID data, which suggests there may be limits even if I have a HUGE list of manufacture/model names... So, have I missed something obvious here? Thanks. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 23:53:41 2007 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 19:53:41 -0400 Subject: Power Spike question Message-ID: <46BF9D85.5010100@rogers.com> Hi Folk, I have a question about possible damage from a power spike. I was at a client's home today and his Win XP computer was erroring out with a missing DLL message, his printer was dead (as was the wall receptacle into which the printer was plugged). The computer was surge protected but the printer was not and the printer was connected to the computer via a usb cable. Could a power spike from the bad wall receptacle have taken out the printer and then also affected the computer via the usb connection? TIA John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jad-V3Qe//ktpHnR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 00:10:32 2007 From: jad-V3Qe//ktpHnR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org (Jose A. Dias) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 20:10:32 -0400 Subject: Power Spike question References: <46BF9D85.5010100@rogers.com> Message-ID: <08795C772787354E914917175F5503301B46A5@skarloey.diaslan.net> Yes, very possible. Surges will take whatever path is available. Any, and all, computer equipment should be behind a surge protector, and if possible, behind a working UPS. To fix your client's problem, I'd start by booting the PC without *any* peripherals, and see what you get. Run a "chkdsk /f c:" and see what that gives you. Hopefully you will not need to scrap the computer, but with spikes that's always a possibility. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of John > McGregor > Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 7:54 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Power Spike question > > Hi Folk, > I have a question about possible damage from a power spike. I was > at a client's home today and his Win XP computer was erroring out with a > missing DLL message, his printer was dead (as was the wall receptacle > into which the printer was plugged). The computer was surge protected > but the printer was not and the printer was connected to the computer > via a usb cable. Could a power spike from the bad wall receptacle have > taken out the printer and then also affected the computer via the usb > connection? > > TIA > > John > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 8507 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 01:13:45 2007 From: erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Frank) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 21:13:45 -0400 Subject: New Laptop and 802.11 In-Reply-To: <20070812144337.e58fcf40.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <60047.208.72.127.64.1186336344.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> <46B70F69.2040500@rogers.com> <20070812144337.e58fcf40.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <46BFB049.3050209@rogers.com> Howard Gibson wrote: > Frank, > > My Acer Aspire 3620 has buttons and idiot lights that support wireless communications, but I eventually figured out that there are no wireless devices on it. I have to plug something in. > > Try `/sbin/lspci` and see what devices your computer recognizes. > > Thanks. Will try that. Frank -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 01:17:22 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 21:17:22 -0400 Subject: Power Spike question In-Reply-To: <46BF9D85.5010100-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46BF9D85.5010100@rogers.com> Message-ID: <46BFB122.6050902@rogers.com> John McGregor wrote: > Hi Folk, > I have a question about possible damage from a power spike. I was > at a client's home today and his Win XP computer was erroring out with a > missing DLL message, his printer was dead (as was the wall receptacle > into which the printer was plugged). The computer was surge protected > but the printer was not and the printer was connected to the computer > via a usb cable. Could a power spike from the bad wall receptacle have > taken out the printer and then also affected the computer via the usb > connection? > Most "surge protectors" don't do much and yes, a surge could come in via any cable. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 01:51:09 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 21:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Detecting LCD Monitors. In-Reply-To: <36728.31085.qm-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <36728.31085.qm@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: | From: Colin McGregor | So, have I missed something obvious here? I just read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDID The "Limitations" section seems relevant and unfortunate. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 01:59:24 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 21:59:24 -0400 Subject: OT: Not-so-precise Swiss army unit mistakenly invades Liechtenstein In-Reply-To: <20070812150918.afd9929a.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46BA4AA5.9060504@utoronto.ca> <99a6c38f0708081630p7ea08677n2c25f155bb750822@mail.gmail.com> <20070812150918.afd9929a.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0708121859g72b01860t13242c7e4052a7cb@mail.gmail.com> On 8/12/07, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 19:30:39 -0400 > "Scott Elcomb" wrote: > > > > If armed American soldiers ended up more than a Kilometer into Canada, > > would the story be as funny? > > > > Yes this is way OT, but an interesting exercise nonetheless, IMO. > > Scott, > > I believe there was an incident in which the Italian army invaded Sweden. It was a NATO exercise. The airliner was diverted for some reason, the Italians were not told, and they were left wandering around a Swedish airport in full camo until someone figured what was going on. OK, I've seen the other responses to yours. Rather than find myself driving any further into controversy, I'll just drop this bit and see what happens. You refer to another incident where some sovereign nations' military has gone astray. I still don't think this is an "overly funny," topic. Perhaps it's my upbringing - I watched far too many (20th century) war movies when I was young - and there seems to be a lot more military activity among the first world nations over the last 5 years than I'd really care to think about. Should we discuss this openly? Should I post my thoughts to my blog? Yes, it is an interesting exercise, but using historical references as a guide it isn't inconceivable that I (personally) might find myself in trouble for my analysis. (On the surface, it's easy to respond with a "We live in a free society and have the right to free speech," but lately, there seems a number of reasons why that may not be the whole of the truth. I'd agree that Canada's one of the better nations in which to do so, but I'd rather not tempt fate.) The event you mentioned is another example of a military misplaced; do you have additional thoughts on the matter? -- Scott Elcomb [ http://www.psema4.com/ ] "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 02:07:24 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 22:07:24 -0400 Subject: OT: Not-so-precise Swiss army unit mistakenly invades Liechtenstein In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0708121859g72b01860t13242c7e4052a7cb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <46BA4AA5.9060504@utoronto.ca> <99a6c38f0708081630p7ea08677n2c25f155bb750822@mail.gmail.com> <20070812150918.afd9929a.hgibson@eol.ca> <99a6c38f0708121859g72b01860t13242c7e4052a7cb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0708121907p5161ecbbo3268bb6d26fe258b@mail.gmail.com> On 8/12/07, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Should we discuss this openly? Should I post my thoughts to my blog? Rrgh. Not trying to be a 'troll,' and certainly not looking to be unnecessarily controversial. I'm not sure that I made much sense in my previous post. I've never really thought this topic through completely even though it's increasingly on my mind. Be happy to try and clear the air, off-list and on (if other members don't mind). -- Scott Elcomb [ http://www.psema4.com/ ] "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 06:09:03 2007 From: sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Steve Harvey) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 02:09:03 -0400 Subject: Bootloader problems & compiling for older kernels In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0708121019l4087a40due1b44e58c4528afb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0708121019l4087a40due1b44e58c4528afb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070813060903.GT93377@shell.vex.net> On Sun, Aug 12, 2007 at 01:19:28PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > I've got Win95b and Basic Linux 3.5* loaded onto the hard drive, but I > can't seem to get either lilo or grub working properly: > > - Lilo can load linux, can't find chain.b to load Win95. > - Grub can load Win95, but not linux (Error 17 - Can't mount partition) > > I built a Grub boot floppy (which was used to install grub to the MBR) > and that works perfectly fine. All my googling about the Error 17 > problem suggests that Grub may not work properly with such an old Hdd > and BIOS. You might be running across that old limit of 1023 cylinders. Detailed explanation is at: http://www.unifix.de/tutorial/ENG-Large.Disk-MiniHOWTO.html > > Does anyone have recommendations for other bootloaders? > I have created boot floppies with syslinux. All you need is the (b)zImage, as long as it will fit. Sometimes when building a kernel (at least with 2.4.20) you will be warned that it is too big to fit on a floppy even though it does fit. That message is triggered if the size is over 1MB-64k. http://syslinux.zytor.com/ I know that Debian, Ubuntu and Knoppix use syslinux. Slackware doesn't use it by default, but support is there (kernels/makedisk on the first install CD, at least for 9.0). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 06:24:50 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 23:24:50 -0700 Subject: Bootloader problems & compiling for older kernels In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0708121019l4087a40due1b44e58c4528afb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0708121019l4087a40due1b44e58c4528afb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0708122324g7f6a1b8fhcdf4acf48d81ba9f@mail.gmail.com> could you attach your grub.conf and lilo.conf files for us to have a peek at? On 8/12/07, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Hi all, > > I managed to acquire an ancient laptop in the last week for virtually > nothing. The specs: > > Make/Model: HyperBook 600 from Hyperdata > CPU: Pentium - 75Mhz > Ram: 24Mb > Hdd: 510Mb > Bios: AMIBIOS (1993) > > > Part 1 - Bootloaders > > I've got Win95b and Basic Linux 3.5* loaded onto the hard drive, but I > can't seem to get either lilo or grub working properly: > > - Lilo can load linux, can't find chain.b to load Win95. > - Grub can load Win95, but not linux (Error 17 - Can't mount partition) > > I built a Grub boot floppy (which was used to install grub to the MBR) > and that works perfectly fine. All my googling about the Error 17 > problem suggests that Grub may not work properly with such an old Hdd > and BIOS. > > Does anyone have recommendations for other bootloaders? > > > Part 2 - Compiling > > Basic Linux is very tiny (designed specifically for old laptops) and > doesn't have much in the way of packages. IMO, it does an absolutely > amazing job for fitting on two floppies. > > I'd like to compile some software for it using my development > environment under Ubuntu Edgy. Besides ensuring that I have the right > libraries, is there anything I need to watch out for - particularly as > far as kernel differences go? > > My Edgy is using a 2.6.17 kernel, and Basic Linux is using a 2.2.16 (IIRC). > > Thanks in advance! > - Scott. > > * Basic Linux: > http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/baslinux/ > > -- > Scott Elcomb [ http://www.psema4.com/ ] > > "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy > rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, > their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that > the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al > Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) > > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin > > '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting > on its shoes." - Mark Twain > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 12:20:36 2007 From: drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Tyree Woody) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 07:20:36 -0500 Subject: Your C1alis S0ft T4bs 0rder #704238 Message-ID: If you having trouble falling or staying asleep, Amb1en may be the solution that will give you that much needed rest. But with the current costs of med1cations in the United States, that rest may have a steep price. This is why thousands of Americans are turning to US Hea1thcare 1nc., the online d4ugstore where they can fill their prescr1ptions for a fraction of the cost. At US Hea1thcare 1nc. you can buy practically any prescr1ption med1cation without having to show us the actual prescr1ption. But that's not our only advantage: you can rest assured that when you buy at our online store, you will get the best price, and that your order will be filled and shipped to you n a matter of hours. So, after all, getting your next order of Amb1en doesn't have to keep you awake. http://www.papallwk.com/ If you want to be excluded from th1s ma1ling http://www.papallwk.com/m0veme/ We will process your request in 48hr's -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 13:46:10 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:46:10 -0400 Subject: USB portable drive weirdness In-Reply-To: <20070808162036.GA27526-LMpBBneordZSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <20070808152257.GB27323@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <837618.4510.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <3a97ef0708080909l703c60f4n77050d999f53ce99@mail.gmail.com> <20070808162036.GA27526@amtoo.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070813134609.GA9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 08, 2007 at 12:20:36PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > Thanks for the quick responses. Here are the answers: (1) the portable drive > enclosure does *not* have any connector for an independent power supply; and > (2) it did indeed come with one of those funny Y-cables for two USB devices. > Perhaps if I try a regular USB cable...? Hmm. > > Suppose that the suggestion is right that my desktop is in a marginal power > situation. (Strange but there you have it.) Are there any remedies, apart from > giving up on the portable drive? Make sure you use that Y cable and plug it into two seperate USB ports on the host system (not into a hub). Plug in the plug with the pass through first, then the regular one. That way you get power first, then more power and usb data lines last. I am not sure, but I think USB2 ports are supposed to handle more power than USB1 ports. Of course there is also the issue that a USB port is allowed to restrict power to something like 50mA until a device registers and tells the system what power it needs, after which the power may then provide more pwoer and allow the device to go into full operation, or it may tell the device that it can't provide that level of power and not start up the device. USB is funny that way. So even with a second plug, some systems may provide very little if any power on that second port since there is no USB device there to request more power. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 13:59:18 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:59:18 -0400 Subject: Groklaw - Court Rules: Novell owns the UNIX and UnixWare copyrights! Novell has right to waive! In-Reply-To: <200708102252.19591.glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <741025.99448.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46BCE1FC.5070600@rogers.com> <200708102252.19591.glayng@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <46C063B6.8050209@telly.org> Gary Layng wrote: > Of course you realize that the stock price of SCO is just going to soar to the Moon on Monday. > Not this time. At Friday closing SCOX was $1.44. As I write this Monday morning it's going between 0.35 and 0.40. (On March 31, 2000 it was $94). - Evan PS: Does anyone here live in the provincial riding of Oak Ridges (which includes Richmond Hill, Souffville and northwest Markham)? MPP Frank Klee just spent a bunch of money on SCO to help run his re-election campaign, enough that SCO would boast about the sale to CNN and others: http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/LAM05006082007-1.htm -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 14:09:42 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:09:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: USB portable drive weirdness In-Reply-To: <20070813134609.GA9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070808152257.GB27323@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <837618.4510.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <3a97ef0708080909l703c60f4n77050d999f53ce99@mail.gmail.com> <20070808162036.GA27526@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <20070813134609.GA9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7827.74.99.30.125.1187014182.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > > I am not sure, but I think USB2 ports are supposed to handle more power > than USB1 ports. > As far as I know, all USB ports can supply 500mA. IBM were proposing a version that could supply more current, but it doesn't seem to be in use yet. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 14:14:00 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:14:00 -0400 Subject: USB portable drive weirdness In-Reply-To: <200708081239.28198.dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM@public.gmane.org> References: <20070808152257.GB27323@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <3a97ef0708080909l703c60f4n77050d999f53ce99@mail.gmail.com> <20070808162036.GA27526@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <200708081239.28198.dbmacg@look.ca> Message-ID: <20070813141400.GB9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 08, 2007 at 12:39:28PM -0400, Duncan MacGregor wrote: > I have a 60G drive with the usual Y-connector USB plugs, and I think your > problem is low power. > > I found that the answer was to buy a powered USB hub with a good power supply. > After buying two cheap hubs with small power supplies (one unmarked, and one > rated at 1 amp), I went to Sourcecc (useta be Radio Shack) and got a 4-port > hub with a 2.5amp power supply. Now everything works fine. If I move the 2.5a > power supply to the cheap hubs, they work, too! My wife has a nexstar 2.5" enclosure with a 60GB fujitsu in it, and it uses the Y cable too. So far it has worked on the machines she has tried it on (my desktops, a compaq laptop, and an asus tablet PC) and never a problem yet. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 15:07:30 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:07:30 -0400 Subject: New Laptop and 802.11 In-Reply-To: <20070812144337.e58fcf40.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <60047.208.72.127.64.1186336344.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> <46B70F69.2040500@rogers.com> <20070812144337.e58fcf40.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20070813150729.GC9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Aug 12, 2007 at 02:43:37PM -0400, Howard Gibson wrote: > My Acer Aspire 3620 has buttons and idiot lights that support wireless communications, but I eventually figured out that there are no wireless devices on it. I have to plug something in. > > Try `/sbin/lspci` and see what devices your computer recognizes. Probably has an empty miniPCI slot that could take a wifi card (assuming you can get one the BIOS will accept). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 15:23:24 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:23:24 -0400 Subject: Groklaw - Court Rules: Novell owns the UNIX and UnixWare copyrights! Novell has right to waive! In-Reply-To: <46C063B6.8050209-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <741025.99448.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46BCE1FC.5070600@rogers.com> <200708102252.19591.glayng@sympatico.ca> <46C063B6.8050209@telly.org> Message-ID: On 8/13/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Gary Layng wrote: > > Of course you realize that the stock price of SCO is just going to soar > to the Moon on Monday. > > > Not this time. > > At Friday closing SCOX was $1.44. > > As I write this Monday morning it's going between 0.35 and 0.40. > > (On March 31, 2000 it was $94). Also amusing is that the trading volume last week was little more than line noise, and today, trades are in the tens of thousands of shares. Or, to put it another way, today's trading (so far) is two orders of magnitude larger than the average volume (1.71M versus 97K). I can't imagine why anyone's still buying the stock, even at less than fifty cents a share. Does the SCO office in Utah have really nice furniture? ;) -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 15:46:56 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:46:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Groklaw - Court Rules: Novell owns the UNIX and UnixWare copyrights! Novell has right to waive! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <573171.85265.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Alex Beamish wrote: > On 8/13/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > > > Gary Layng wrote: > > > Of course you realize that the stock price of > SCO is just going to soar > > to the Moon on Monday. > > > > > Not this time. > > > > At Friday closing SCOX was $1.44. > > > > As I write this Monday morning it's going between > 0.35 and 0.40. > > > > (On March 31, 2000 it was $94). > > > Also amusing is that the trading volume last week > was little more than line > noise, and today, trades are in the tens of > thousands of shares. Or, to put > it another way, today's trading (so far) is two > orders of magnitude larger > than the average volume (1.71M versus 97K). I can't > imagine why anyone's > still buying the stock, even at less than fifty > cents a share. I've heard some folks want SCO share certificates as a wall decoration... Something I might be interested in once the share price hits say $0.01 per share (say next week :-) ). Colin. > Does the SCO office in Utah have really nice > furniture? ;) > > -- > Alex Beamish > Toronto, Ontario > aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 16:01:37 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:01:37 -0700 Subject: Groklaw - Court Rules: Novell owns the UNIX and UnixWare copyrights! Novell has right to waive! In-Reply-To: <573171.85265.qm-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <573171.85265.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0708130901t1ac29d90l48cdb4d83267e09e@mail.gmail.com> I think that those certificates are literally going to be worth about as much as the paper they're printed on, except for the additional value on ebay to collectors in this regard :-) On 8/13/07, Colin McGregor wrote: > --- Alex Beamish wrote: > > On 8/13/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > > > > > Gary Layng wrote: > > > > Of course you realize that the stock price of > > SCO is just going to soar > > > to the Moon on Monday. > > > > > > > Not this time. > > > > > > At Friday closing SCOX was $1.44. > > > > > > As I write this Monday morning it's going between > > 0.35 and 0.40. > > > > > > (On March 31, 2000 it was $94). > > > > > > Also amusing is that the trading volume last week > > was little more than line > > noise, and today, trades are in the tens of > > thousands of shares. Or, to put > > it another way, today's trading (so far) is two > > orders of magnitude larger > > than the average volume (1.71M versus 97K). I can't > > imagine why anyone's > > still buying the stock, even at less than fifty > > cents a share. > > I've heard some folks want SCO share certificates as a > wall decoration... Something I might be interested in > once the share price hits say $0.01 per share (say > next week :-) ). > > Colin. > > > Does the SCO office in Utah have really nice > > furniture? ;) > > > > -- > > Alex Beamish > > Toronto, Ontario > > aka talexb > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 16:16:42 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 12:16:42 -0400 Subject: Power Spike question In-Reply-To: <46BF9D85.5010100-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46BF9D85.5010100@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070813161642.GD9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Aug 12, 2007 at 07:53:41PM -0400, John McGregor wrote: > Hi Folk, > I have a question about possible damage from a power spike. I was > at a client's home today and his Win XP computer was erroring out with a > missing DLL message, his printer was dead (as was the wall receptacle > into which the printer was plugged). The computer was surge protected > but the printer was not and the printer was connected to the computer > via a usb cable. Could a power spike from the bad wall receptacle have > taken out the printer and then also affected the computer via the usb > connection? Certainly sounds possible. In the past I have seen windows corrupt itself due to the system being unstable caused by a cheap crap power supply. After a better power supply was installed and windows was reinstalled from scratch, it was actually quite reliable. Of course a power surge could have knocked the power supply funny which could then cause all sorts of problems too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 16:39:39 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:39:39 -0700 Subject: Power Spike question In-Reply-To: <20070813161642.GD9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <46BF9D85.5010100@rogers.com> <20070813161642.GD9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0708130939i21d5a28apd6bc0c90b79ea3f4@mail.gmail.com> Even without the surge hitting the box itself, depending on what it was doing during the time of the surge the sudden power-loss may have caused corruption on the hard-drive as well. Power surges are funny things though. I had a client whom had the transformer near his house hit by lightning. It fried his fridge, kills the CMOS battery on his computer and likewise the CD-ROM drive, but other than that the machine ran fine once the battery was replaced... On 8/13/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Aug 12, 2007 at 07:53:41PM -0400, John McGregor wrote: > > Hi Folk, > > I have a question about possible damage from a power spike. I was > > at a client's home today and his Win XP computer was erroring out with a > > missing DLL message, his printer was dead (as was the wall receptacle > > into which the printer was plugged). The computer was surge protected > > but the printer was not and the printer was connected to the computer > > via a usb cable. Could a power spike from the bad wall receptacle have > > taken out the printer and then also affected the computer via the usb > > connection? > > Certainly sounds possible. > > In the past I have seen windows corrupt itself due to the system being > unstable caused by a cheap crap power supply. After a better power > supply was installed and windows was reinstalled from scratch, it was > actually quite reliable. Of course a power surge could have knocked the > power supply funny which could then cause all sorts of problems too. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 16:49:16 2007 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 12:49:16 -0400 Subject: Groklaw - Court Rules: Novell owns the UNIX and UnixWare copyrights! Novell has right to waive! In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0708130901t1ac29d90l48cdb4d83267e09e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <573171.85265.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <3a97ef0708130901t1ac29d90l48cdb4d83267e09e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46C08B8C.3020703@gmail.com> http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SCOX&t=5d&l=on&z=m&q=l&c= I might not be a market expert, so I could be wrong; but I think vertical lines straight down are bad. Tyler Aviss wrote: > I think that those certificates are literally going to be worth about > as much as the paper they're printed on, except for the additional > value on ebay to collectors in this regard :-) > > On 8/13/07, Colin McGregor wrote: > >> --- Alex Beamish wrote: >> >>> On 8/13/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >>> >>>> Gary Layng wrote: >>>> >>>>> Of course you realize that the stock price of >>>>> >>> SCO is just going to soar >>> >>>> to the Moon on Monday. >>>> >>>> Not this time. >>>> >>>> At Friday closing SCOX was $1.44. >>>> >>>> As I write this Monday morning it's going between >>>> >>> 0.35 and 0.40. >>> >>>> (On March 31, 2000 it was $94). >>>> >>> Also amusing is that the trading volume last week >>> was little more than line >>> noise, and today, trades are in the tens of >>> thousands of shares. Or, to put >>> it another way, today's trading (so far) is two >>> orders of magnitude larger >>> than the average volume (1.71M versus 97K). I can't >>> imagine why anyone's >>> still buying the stock, even at less than fifty >>> cents a share. >>> >> I've heard some folks want SCO share certificates as a >> wall decoration... Something I might be interested in >> once the share price hits say $0.01 per share (say >> next week :-) ). >> >> Colin. >> >> >>> Does the SCO office in Utah have really nice >>> furniture? ;) >>> >>> -- >>> Alex Beamish >>> Toronto, Ontario >>> aka talexb >>> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 17:12:47 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:12:47 -0400 Subject: Groklaw - Court Rules: Novell owns the UNIX and UnixWare copyrights! Novell has right to waive! In-Reply-To: <46C08B8C.3020703-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <573171.85265.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <3a97ef0708130901t1ac29d90l48cdb4d83267e09e@mail.gmail.com> <46C08B8C.3020703@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1187025167.4917.379.camel@stan64.site> On Mon, 2007-08-13 at 12:49 -0400, Teddy Mills wrote: > http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SCOX&t=5d&l=on&z=m&q=l&c= > > I might not be a market expert, so I could be wrong; > but I think vertical lines straight down are bad. be nice to see some of the sco execs behind virtical lines ..errr bars. if that doesn't happen I am going o be pissed. Can any one say pump and dump. Well not just now, but years ago. -tl > > > > Tyler Aviss wrote: > > I think that those certificates are literally going to be worth about > > as much as the paper they're printed on, except for the additional > > value on ebay to collectors in this regard :-) > > > > On 8/13/07, Colin McGregor wrote: > > > >> --- Alex Beamish wrote: > >> > >>> On 8/13/07, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >>> > >>>> Gary Layng wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Of course you realize that the stock price of > >>>>> > >>> SCO is just going to soar > >>> > >>>> to the Moon on Monday. > >>>> > >>>> Not this time. > >>>> > >>>> At Friday closing SCOX was $1.44. > >>>> > >>>> As I write this Monday morning it's going between > >>>> > >>> 0.35 and 0.40. > >>> > >>>> (On March 31, 2000 it was $94). > >>>> > >>> Also amusing is that the trading volume last week > >>> was little more than line > >>> noise, and today, trades are in the tens of > >>> thousands of shares. Or, to put > >>> it another way, today's trading (so far) is two > >>> orders of magnitude larger > >>> than the average volume (1.71M versus 97K). I can't > >>> imagine why anyone's > >>> still buying the stock, even at less than fifty > >>> cents a share. > >>> > >> I've heard some folks want SCO share certificates as a > >> wall decoration... Something I might be interested in > >> once the share price hits say $0.01 per share (say > >> next week :-) ). > >> > >> Colin. > >> > >> > >>> Does the SCO office in Utah have really nice > >>> furniture? ;) > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Alex Beamish > >>> Toronto, Ontario > >>> aka talexb > >>> > >> -- > >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > >> > >> > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 17:17:21 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:17:21 -0400 Subject: Detecting LCD Monitors. In-Reply-To: <36728.31085.qm-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <36728.31085.qm@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070813171721.GE9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Aug 12, 2007 at 06:46:03PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > I am looking for a painless way to detect if an LCD > screen is connected to a box running a Ubuntu Live CD. > > > The basic problem being I want the screen to have a > resolution of at least 1024 x 768 and look good. CRTs > with a 4:3 screen ratio can be forced to 1024 x 768 > and be fairly sure (assuming the monitor can support > 1024 x 768 at all) will look decent. Not so LCD > screens, who I gather if you were to say try to force > say a 1280 x 1024 to a 1024 x 768 resolution will look > like @#$%. > > In other words the problem is along the following > lines: > > If monitor = CRT then > If supported resolution => 1024 x 768 then > set resolution to 1024 x 768 > else > display error > shutdown > > If monitor = LCD then > If best supported resolution = 1024 x 768 then > set resolution to 1024 x 768 > else > If best resolution < 1024 x 768 then > display error > shutdown > else > set to highest available resolution. > > With the Ubuntu Live CD /etc/X11/xorg.conf is > basically useless for this, as it is always "generic > monitor" , with only 1024x768 and lower resolutions > listed. > > EDID is a standard that allows a video card to get > some basic information about the monitor it is > connected to. The problem is EDID data doesn't carry > the two pieces of data I want most, is this an LCD > screen and what is the native screen resolution. > > /var/log/xorg.0.log does list the EDID data and offers > a way to get partway to my goal. xorg.0.log will > identify which screen resolutions the screen does > support, so if I see a 16:9 (widescreen) screen > supported I suspect I am on fairly safe ground going > to the highest 16:9 resolution. Could you try and include the Xorg log file in an email? I don't have an LCD to look at to see what it detects. > While detecting 16:9 helps, there is the issue of 4:3 > LCD screens. EDID can carry manufacture name, and > model information, so if I know that a Brand XYZ Model > 42 monitor is an LCD I am good. But that leaves some > ugly issues, putting together such a table of LCD > screens and knowing that the software may get ugly the > instant someone decides to use this live CD with the > latest / greatest new LCD screens. Another issue, I > have a no-name LCD screen where the manufacturer name > was left blank in the EDID data, which suggests there > may be limits even if I have a HUGE list of > manufacture/model names... I haven't seen any 16:9 computer LCD screens (only TVs seem to be 16:9). Computer LCDs are either 16:10 or 15:9 from what I can tell. 15:9 tends to be 1280x768, while 16:10 is lots of screens, like 1280x800, 1680x1050, 1440x900, 2560x1600, 1920x1200, etc. All are some multiple of 80x50 pixels except the 1280x768 which is just odd. > So, have I missed something obvious here? Not sure. I imagine there has to be a way to detect the screen size and use the native size of an LCD. Windows seems to do it somehow. Normally I would pick whatever the highest resolution the display claims to support is. Certainly for LCDs that should almost certainly be the native resolution. Lookup by brand/model is just not going to be very useful. It will always be out of date. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 17:26:06 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:26:06 -0400 Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday In-Reply-To: <5131.74.99.30.125.1186700070.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <5131.74.99.30.125.1186700070.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20070813172606.GF9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 06:54:30PM -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Indeed, from Wikipedia: > ----------------------- > Many restaurants have original, modern, corporate-developed songs that are > used instead of the old-fashioned "Happy Birthday to You" when serving > patrons the traditional cake on their birthdays. Originally, these songs > were specifically developed to prevent copyright infringement and having > to pay royalties. > ----------------------- > Yesterday evening I had dinner at a Swiss Chalet in Richmond Hill. The > wait staff gathered several times to sing the Swiss Chalet corporate > birthday song. I wondered why the didn't just sing 'Happy Birthday [tm]". > Now I know. Of course just about anything is a better song than "Happy Birthday [tm]" too. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 17:39:19 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:39:19 -0400 Subject: Groklaw - Court Rules: Novell owns the UNIX and UnixWare copyrights! Novell has right to waive! In-Reply-To: <46C063B6.8050209-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <741025.99448.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46BCE1FC.5070600@rogers.com> <200708102252.19591.glayng@sympatico.ca> <46C063B6.8050209@telly.org> Message-ID: <46C09747.4000403@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Gary Layng wrote: > >> Of course you realize that the stock price of SCO is just going to soar to the Moon on Monday. >> >> > Not this time. > > At Friday closing SCOX was $1.44. > > As I write this Monday morning it's going between 0.35 and 0.40. > > (On March 31, 2000 it was $94). > > - Evan > > > PS: Does anyone here live in the provincial riding of Oak Ridges (which > includes Richmond Hill, Souffville and northwest Markham)? MPP Frank > Klee just spent a bunch of money on SCO to help run his re-election > campaign, enough that SCO would boast about the sale to CNN and others: > http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/LAM05006082007-1.htm > w to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > While I don't live in his riding, I did send him a note suggesting he find another supplier, as SCO is not likely to be around much longer. Incidentally, right now, they've traded about 30x their average volume. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 20:49:31 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 16:49:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Detecting LCD Monitors. In-Reply-To: <20070813171721.GE9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070813171721.GE9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <158502.90693.qm@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Aug 12, 2007 at 06:46:03PM -0400, Colin > McGregor wrote: > > I am looking for a painless way to detect if an > LCD > > screen is connected to a box running a Ubuntu Live > CD. > > > > > > The basic problem being I want the screen to have > a > > resolution of at least 1024 x 768 and look good. > CRTs > > with a 4:3 screen ratio can be forced to 1024 x > 768 > > and be fairly sure (assuming the monitor can > support > > 1024 x 768 at all) will look decent. Not so LCD > > screens, who I gather if you were to say try to > force > > say a 1280 x 1024 to a 1024 x 768 resolution will > look > > like @#$%. > > > > In other words the problem is along the following > > lines: > > > > If monitor = CRT then > > If supported resolution => 1024 x 768 then > > set resolution to 1024 x 768 > > else > > display error > > shutdown > > > > If monitor = LCD then > > If best supported resolution = 1024 x 768 then > > set resolution to 1024 x 768 > > else > > If best resolution < 1024 x 768 then > > display error > > shutdown > > else > > set to highest available resolution. > > > > With the Ubuntu Live CD /etc/X11/xorg.conf is > > basically useless for this, as it is always > "generic > > monitor" , with only 1024x768 and lower > resolutions > > listed. > > > > EDID is a standard that allows a video card to get > > some basic information about the monitor it is > > connected to. The problem is EDID data doesn't > carry > > the two pieces of data I want most, is this an LCD > > screen and what is the native screen resolution. > > > > /var/log/xorg.0.log does list the EDID data and > offers > > a way to get partway to my goal. xorg.0.log will > > identify which screen resolutions the screen does > > support, so if I see a 16:9 (widescreen) screen > > supported I suspect I am on fairly safe ground > going > > to the highest 16:9 resolution. > > Could you try and include the Xorg log file in an > email? I don't have > an LCD to look at to see what it detects. I tried posting a response earlier, and possibly due to size (the xorg.0.log file is LONG) it hasn't gone through. Regardless I suspect the log file will not be of much use as the LCD screen I am using on my test box has a max. resolution of 1024 x 768. So, not the ideal source of help in this situation. I will plan to pick-up some sort of wide screen LCD later this week to get to the bottom of all this... > > While detecting 16:9 helps, there is the issue of > 4:3 > > LCD screens. EDID can carry manufacture name, and > > model information, so if I know that a Brand XYZ > Model > > 42 monitor is an LCD I am good. But that leaves > some > > ugly issues, putting together such a table of LCD > > screens and knowing that the software may get ugly > the > > instant someone decides to use this live CD with > the > > latest / greatest new LCD screens. Another issue, > I > > have a no-name LCD screen where the manufacturer > name > > was left blank in the EDID data, which suggests > there > > may be limits even if I have a HUGE list of > > manufacture/model names... > > I haven't seen any 16:9 computer LCD screens (only > TVs seem to be 16:9). > Computer LCDs are either 16:10 or 15:9 from what I > can tell. > > 15:9 tends to be 1280x768, while 16:10 is lots of > screens, like > 1280x800, 1680x1050, 1440x900, 2560x1600, 1920x1200, > etc. All are some > multiple of 80x50 pixels except the 1280x768 which > is just odd. > > > So, have I missed something obvious here? > > Not sure. I imagine there has to be a way to detect > the screen size and > use the native size of an LCD. Windows seems to do > it somehow. > > Normally I would pick whatever the highest > resolution the display claims > to support is. Certainly for LCDs that should > almost certainly be the > native resolution. Yes, only there is no way that I can see to tell if I am dealing with an LCD. I do know that there have been a SMALL number of CRT based non-4:3 aspect ratio monitors, those have been MOST unusual (a quick search only turned up the Sony GDM-FW900, but no doubt there have been a few others). Regardless, if I see a non-4:3 aspect ratio screen I can be FAIRLY sure I am dealing with a LCD screen. Bottom line in all this is to make sure that what ever hardware this live CD is thrown at, the screen will look GOOD, and show at least a 1024 x 768 screen. PERIOD!! My "main" home machine has a big bad 21" CRT screen, which I am happy to run at 1600x1200, numbers that some visitors to my place (like say my mother) find too small to be readable... Okay, so if I take that machine and go to say 1024 x 768 I know everyone (who doesn't have serious vision problems) will find readable. Problem with LCD screens is I don't know if 1024x768 will look good (on my test box the LCD at 1024x768 is great, but then that is what that LCD screen was made to do...). > Lookup by brand/model is just not going to be very > useful. It will > always be out of date. Yes, that is what I figured, sigh... Colin. > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 21:54:17 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:54:17 -0400 Subject: Detecting LCD Monitors. In-Reply-To: <158502.90693.qm-57gzaD/7YRGB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070813171721.GE9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <158502.90693.qm@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070813215417.GG9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 13, 2007 at 04:49:31PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > I tried posting a response earlier, and possibly due > to size (the xorg.0.log file is LONG) it hasn't gone > through. Regardless I suspect the log file will not be > of much use as the LCD screen I am using on my test > box has a max. resolution of 1024 x 768. So, not the > ideal source of help in this situation. I will plan to > pick-up some sort of wide screen LCD later this week > to get to the bottom of all this... > > Yes, only there is no way that I can see to tell if I > am dealing with an LCD. I do know that there have been > a SMALL number of CRT based non-4:3 aspect ratio > monitors, those have been MOST unusual (a quick search > only turned up the Sony GDM-FW900, but no doubt there > have been a few others). Regardless, if I see a > non-4:3 aspect ratio screen I can be FAIRLY sure I am > dealing with a LCD screen. > > Bottom line in all this is to make sure that what ever > hardware this live CD is thrown at, the screen will > look GOOD, and show at least a 1024 x 768 screen. > PERIOD!! My "main" home machine has a big bad 21" CRT > screen, which I am happy to run at 1600x1200, numbers > that some visitors to my place (like say my mother) > find too small to be readable... Okay, so if I take > that machine and go to say 1024 x 768 I know everyone > (who doesn't have serious vision problems) will find > readable. Problem with LCD screens is I don't know if > 1024x768 will look good (on my test box the LCD at > 1024x768 is great, but then that is what that LCD > screen was made to do...). There is also the annoying issue that 1280x1024 CRTs are 4:3 while a 1280x1024 LCD is 5:4 (as far as I can tell). Not that you need a different X config, and hopefully X would read the screen dimensions by edid and get the aspect right. Well the 1280x1024 CRTs were always scewed it seemed. We have some 19" LCDs here at work which are 1280x1024 5:4 and the edid data if I run 'get-edid|parse-edid' only returns 1280x1024 as a defined mode. I think a CRT usually returns more (can't really check since my nvidia doesn't seem to like get-edid). My home machine with a 21" CRT shows this in the X log: (II) NV(0): Manufacturer's mask: 0 (II) NV(0): Supported Future Video Modes: (II) NV(0): #0: hsize: 1600 vsize 1200 refresh: 85 vid: 22953 (II) NV(0): #1: hsize: 1600 vsize 1200 refresh: 75 vid: 20393 (II) NV(0): #2: hsize: 1024 vsize 768 refresh: 85 vid: 22881 (II) NV(0): #3: hsize: 1152 vsize 864 refresh: 85 vid: 22897 (II) NV(0): #4: hsize: 800 vsize 600 refresh: 85 vid: 22853 (II) NV(0): #5: hsize: 1800 vsize 1440 refresh: 75 vid: 36802 (II) NV(0): #6: hsize: 640 vsize 480 refresh: 85 vid: 22833 (II) NV(0): Supported additional Video Mode: (II) NV(0): clock: 157.5 MHz Image Size: 364 x 291 mm (II) NV(0): h_active: 1280 h_sync: 1344 h_sync_end 1504 h_blank_end 1728 h_border: 0 (II) NV(0): v_active: 1024 v_sync: 1025 v_sync_end 1028 v_blanking: 1072 v_border: 0 (II) NV(0): Ranges: V min: 48 V max: 170 Hz, H min: 30 H max: 130 kHz, PixClock max 290 MHz (II) NV(0): Monitor name: DELL P1130 (II) NV(0): Serial No: 6D25124B60FL So in this case, 1600x1200 is a good choice (mode #0), while 1800x1440 works, it isn't as clear or recommended. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 00:28:41 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:28:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Detecting LCD Monitors. In-Reply-To: <158502.90693.qm-57gzaD/7YRGB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <158502.90693.qm@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Here's a rather confusing extract from my machine's Xorg.0.log: 1 (II) NV(0): Probing for EDID on I2C bus B... 2 (II) NV(0): I2C device "DDC:ddc2" registered at address 0xA0. 3 (II) NV(0): I2C device "DDC:ddc2" removed. * 4 (--) NV(0): DDC detected a DFP: 5 (II) NV(0): Manufacturer: DEL Model: 4016 Serial#: 1194472500 6 (II) NV(0): Year: 2005 Week: 51 7 (II) NV(0): EDID Version: 1.3 8 (II) NV(0): Digital Display Input * 9 (II) NV(0): Max H-Image Size [cm]: horiz.: 64 vert.: 40 10 (II) NV(0): Gamma: 2.20 11 (II) NV(0): DPMS capabilities: Off; RGB/Color Display * 12 (II) NV(0): First detailed timing not preferred mode in violation of standard! * 13 (II) NV(0): redX: 0.640 redY: 0.343 greenX: 0.292 greenY: 0.611 14 (II) NV(0): blueX: 0.146 blueY: 0.074 whiteX: 0.313 whiteY: 0.331 15 (II) NV(0): Manufacturer's mask: 0 16 (II) NV(0): Supported additional Video Mode: 17 (II) NV(0): clock: 71.0 MHz Image Size: 646 x 406 mm 18 (II) NV(0): h_active: 1280 h_sync: 1328 h_sync_end 1360 h_blank_end 1440 h_border: 0 19 (II) NV(0): v_active: 800 v_sync: 803 v_sync_end 809 v_blanking: 823 v_border: 0 20 (II) NV(0): Supported additional Video Mode: 21 (II) NV(0): clock: 268.0 MHz Image Size: 646 x 406 mm 22 (II) NV(0): h_active: 2560 h_sync: 2608 h_sync_end 2640 h_blank_end 2720 h_border: 0 23 (II) NV(0): v_active: 1600 v_sync: 1603 v_sync_end 1609 v_blanking: 1646 v_border: 0 24 (II) NV(0): Monitor name: DELL 3007WFP 25 (II) NV(0): Serial No: JG5785CFG244 26 (II) NV(0): EDID (in hex): 27 (II) NV(0): 00ffffffffffff0010ac164034343247 28 (II) NV(0): 330f01038040287828fe87a3574a9c25 29 (II) NV(0): 13505400000001010101010101010101 30 (II) NV(0): 010101010101bc1b00a0502017303020 31 (II) NV(0): 360086962100001ab06800a0a0402e60 32 (II) NV(0): 3020360086962100001e000000fc0044 33 (II) NV(0): 454c4c20333030375746500a000000ff 34 (II) NV(0): 004a47353738354346473234340a0007 * 35 (--) NV(0): CRTC 0 is currently programmed for DFP * 36 (II) NV(0): Using DFP on CRTC 0 37 (--) NV(0): Panel size is 2560 x 1600 38 (II) NV(0): Printing DDC gathered Modelines: 39 (II) NV(0): Modeline "1280x800" 71.00 1280 1328 1360 1440 800 803 809 823 -hsync +vsync 40 (II) NV(0): Modeline "2560x1600" 268.00 2560 2608 2640 2720 1600 1603 1609 1646 +hsync +vsync * 41 (II) NV(0): Panel is TMDS 42 (--) NV(0): VideoRAM: 262144 kBytes 43 (==) NV(0): Using gamma correction (1.0, 1.0, 1.0) 44 (II) NV(0): : Using hsync range of 49.31-98.71 kHz 45 (II) NV(0): : Using vrefresh range of 59.86-59.97 Hz 46 (II) NV(0): Estimated virtual size for aspect ratio 1.6000 is 2560x1600 47 (II) NV(0): Clock range: 12.00 to 400.00 MHz 48 (II) NV(0): Not using default mode "640x350" (hsync out of range) Things to note: Line 4 says that a Digital Flat Panel was detected. Could that be what you are looking for? Lines 35 and 36 also mention DFP. Line 9 tells you the size of the display. That could be used to tell the aspect ratio. As well, if this were to get into the xorg.conf Monitor section's DisplaySize declaration, I think that X will scale fonts to make them readable for most people. Line 41 says that the panel is TMDS. Perhaps that strongly suggests LCD. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_Minimized_Differential_Signaling Line 12 says that the monitor violates some standard. Line 12 seems to suggest that the data specifies a preferred mode. Perhaps that is what you shuld be using. BTW, lines 12 and 13 were actually one originally: I broke them appart. I would guess that this is an X bug. Context: - Fedora 7 x86_64 - nVidia 7800GTX - Dell 3007FPW 2560x1600 pixels - nv (open-source, 2d-only) driver - xorg-x11-server 1.3.0.0-9.fc7 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 01:06:57 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:06:57 -0400 Subject: Dell Inspiron 530 compatability questions before buying In-Reply-To: <20070812022527.GB25648-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070811194222.GA6070@waltdnes.org> <20070812022527.GB25648@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070814010657.GA8977@waltdnes.org> On Sat, Aug 11, 2007 at 10:25:27PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote > On Sat, Aug 11, 2007 at 03:42:22PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > > Anybody have experience with this machine under linux? Since my > > 1999 Dell lasted almost 8 years, I'm willing to pay a bit extra. Oh > > yeah, price reduced at dell.ca by $300, expires the 16th. I'm not > > looking at the low-end Celeron version, but the Pentium dual core > > processor version. > > Wow a Dell laptop that lasted 8 years? laptop??? What laptop? I don't recall mentioning laptop anywhere. See http://configure.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=ca&CS=cadhs1&l=en&OC=D530DV_F_2E It's definitely a desktop. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 02:01:58 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:01:58 -0400 Subject: I agreed 100% with Cheney's position on Iraq invasion... Message-ID: <20070814020157.GB8977@waltdnes.org> ...too bad he changed his mind since 1994. He was a great prophet. http://youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 02:10:13 2007 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz Family) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:10:13 -0400 Subject: Groklaw - Court Rules: Novell owns the UNIX and UnixWare copyrights! Novell has right to waive! In-Reply-To: <46C063B6.8050209-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <741025.99448.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46BCE1FC.5070600@rogers.com> <200708102252.19591.glayng@sympatico.ca> <46C063B6.8050209@telly.org> Message-ID: <46C10F05.6000307@sympatico.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Gary Layng wrote: > >> Of course you realize that the stock price of SCO is just going to soar to the Moon on Monday. >> >> > Not this time. > > At Friday closing SCOX was $1.44. > > As I write this Monday morning it's going between 0.35 and 0.40. > > (On March 31, 2000 it was $94). > > - Evan > > > PS: Does anyone here live in the provincial riding of Oak Ridges (which > includes Richmond Hill, Souffville and northwest Markham)? MPP Frank > Klee just spent a bunch of money on SCO to help run his re-election > campaign, enough that SCO would boast about the sale to CNN and others: > http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/LAM05006082007-1.htm He doesn't presently represent my riding, but he is switching to it for the next election. He also lives in our neighbourhood. As long as it isn't tax money, I'm not so sure it's my place to tell him how to spend it. But if I get the chance, I'll bring up his poor choice of supplier. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 02:26:04 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:26:04 -0400 Subject: Groklaw - Court Rules: Novell owns the UNIX and UnixWare copyrights! Novell has right to waive! In-Reply-To: <46C10F05.6000307-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <741025.99448.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46BCE1FC.5070600@rogers.com> <200708102252.19591.glayng@sympatico.ca> <46C063B6.8050209@telly.org> <46C10F05.6000307@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <46C112BC.5040609@utoronto.ca> Moniz Family wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> Gary Layng wrote: >> >>> Of course you realize that the stock price of SCO is just going to >>> soar to the Moon on Monday. >>> >> Not this time. >> >> At Friday closing SCOX was $1.44. >> >> As I write this Monday morning it's going between 0.35 and 0.40. >> >> (On March 31, 2000 it was $94). >> >> - Evan >> >> >> PS: Does anyone here live in the provincial riding of Oak Ridges (which >> includes Richmond Hill, Souffville and northwest Markham)? MPP Frank >> Klee just spent a bunch of money on SCO to help run his re-election >> campaign, enough that SCO would boast about the sale to CNN and others: >> http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/LAM05006082007-1.htm >> > He doesn't presently represent my riding, but he is switching to it for > the next election. He also lives in our neighbourhood. As long as it > isn't tax money, I'm not so sure it's my place to tell him how to spend > it. But if I get the chance, I'll bring up his poor choice of supplier. It's absolutely your place, else if he's reelected and makes more decisions like that one, it will end up being public tax money. If he's in office already it is absolutely a matter of place. And more importantly, it is also a matter of civic duty to inform him of your view on the matter since his is apparently myopic at best--that or he's just plain ignorant about the SCO case. So either way, speak up, regardless of whether you get the chance. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 02:55:08 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:55:08 -0400 Subject: USB portable drive weirdness In-Reply-To: <7827.74.99.30.125.1187014182.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20070808152257.GB27323@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <837618.4510.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <3a97ef0708080909l703c60f4n77050d999f53ce99@mail.gmail.com> <20070808162036.GA27526@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <20070813134609.GA9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7827.74.99.30.125.1187014182.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <46C1198C.2090400@ve3syb.ca> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> I am not sure, but I think USB2 ports are supposed to handle more power >> than USB1 ports. >> > As far as I know, all USB ports can supply 500mA. IBM were proposing a > version that could supply more current, but it doesn't seem to be in use > yet. The way I interpreted the information about USB (from wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usb#Power) a port will start out supplying a low current (no more than 100mA) and the USB device has to ask for more. It is up to the computer whether it wants to (or can) honour the request for higher current. If the USB device doesn't have the smarts in it to make a request for higher current, it will only be guaranteed 100mA. Getting more than that without negotiation would be a crap shoot. The proposed USB PlusPower spec would make it a lot easier to be sure of getting higher currents and/or voltages. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 03:24:07 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 23:24:07 -0400 Subject: Interesting variation on the Nigerian Internet Scam Message-ID: <46C12057.8010804@telly.org> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6943616.stm -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 03:56:57 2007 From: interluglists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Interlug Lists) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 23:56:57 -0400 Subject: Ontario Linux Fest - Two months and counting Message-ID: <408ae1640708132056u7afa6ad3h8cbfd346c8341e5a@mail.gmail.com> Ontario Linux Fest - Two months to go It is hard to believe that Ontario Linux Fest is coming up in just two short months. Where did the summer go? It seems like just a moment ago, the organizing committee decided to do this and started by locating a venue. And how we have made progress since then! What is Ontario Linux Fest? Ontario Linux Fest will be held Saturday 13 October 2007 at the Toronto Congress Centre near the Toronto airport. We'll run all day with fascinating and informative presentations from key Open Source developers and advocates. We'll have an exhibition area where you can meet with our sponsors and learn about their projects and products. And most importantly you'll mix and mingle with other key players in F/LOSS. Register now to reserve your spot http://onlinux.ca/olfreg Ontario Linux Fest will extend into the night with a reception for attendees, sponsors and presenters. Top notch presentations and speakers Ontario Linux Fest speakers range from the best known, long time advocates and personalities in the community to some of the brightest lights building the future of GNU/Linux to end users who make a difference for our friends and neighbours. Our attendees will find topics of interest from the deeply technical you the passionate and inspirational. We still have spots for a few more speakers, so if you are a key contributor to a GNU/Linux project that will interest our attendees and you are an engaging public speaker, sign up now. Send us an outline of your topics papers-Q2zETkUEcRyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Key industry sponsors We are thrilled to have the support and sponsorship of IBM and Novell for the inaugural Ontario Linux Fest. It is no surprise that these companies support Free and Open Source software at the grass roots level. Each are also key contributors to many projects, employers of key developers and members of F/LOSS advocacy groups including Open Source Development Labs, Open Invention Network and others. Would your company like to demonstrate your support of GNU/Linux by sponsoring Ontario Linux Fest? We still have openings for sponsors. Contact us at http://onlinux.ca/callforsponsors Attendees you'll want to meet. You'll meet other F/LOSS enthusiasts with interests like yours, and those who have solved challenges that you need to address in several different ways. You'll met people who will become colleagues and friends and employers / employees. You'll be able to help somebody who is just learning and get tips from the gurus. And when it is all over, you'll be exhausted, exhilarated and anxious to come again next year! Register now and reserve your spot at Ontario Linux Fest 2007. http://onlinux.ca/olfreg We really appreciate you registering as soon as possible (like now) so that we can have accurate numbers for things like programs and goodie bags and you know, chairs and stuff. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 05:27:29 2007 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 01:27:29 -0400 Subject: (question) Copying audio CD by command line? Message-ID: <20070814052729.GA11865@node1.opengeometry.net> I would like to duplicate (aka. clone) an audio CD. How do I do this using command line? My guess is that the solution is some permutation of 'cdrecord', 'readcd', 'cdrdao', and 'cdparanoia'. From what I've read so far, I would extract track by track, and then write them to a new CD. But, I want to copy all info from the original CD, not just audio. Any pointers would be appreciated. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 09:57:19 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 12:57:19 +0300 Subject: New Laptop and 802.11 In-Reply-To: <20070812022114.GA25648-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <60047.208.72.127.64.1186336344.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> <46B70F69.2040500@rogers.com> <20070812022114.GA25648@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Hi > Many laptops have intel wireless, which generally works very well. I have an Intel chipset - Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 2200BG to be specific, and the damn thing has never worked for me. I run up to date fedora 6, and wonder if someone has had any luck with it, as this post infer it should be possible. > Broadcom is often near imposible to make work. Atheros may work great > or not at all, depending on the chip type (newer ones generally work > very badly or not at all, while old ones worked very easily). > > If you want a laptop that works with linux, the centrino logo is > actually not a bad thing to look for.# > > -- > Len Sorensen Regards William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 11:14:56 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 07:14:56 -0400 Subject: Groklaw - Court Rules: Novell owns the UNIX and UnixWare copyrights! Novell has right to waive! In-Reply-To: <46C10F05.6000307-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <741025.99448.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46BCE1FC.5070600@rogers.com> <200708102252.19591.glayng@sympatico.ca> <46C063B6.8050209@telly.org> <46C10F05.6000307@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <46C18EB0.3050308@rogers.com> Moniz Family wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> Gary Layng wrote: >> >>> Of course you realize that the stock price of SCO is just going to >>> soar to the Moon on Monday. >>> >> Not this time. >> >> At Friday closing SCOX was $1.44. >> >> As I write this Monday morning it's going between 0.35 and 0.40. >> >> (On March 31, 2000 it was $94). >> >> - Evan >> >> >> PS: Does anyone here live in the provincial riding of Oak Ridges (which >> includes Richmond Hill, Souffville and northwest Markham)? MPP Frank >> Klee just spent a bunch of money on SCO to help run his re-election >> campaign, enough that SCO would boast about the sale to CNN and others: >> http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/LAM05006082007-1.htm >> > He doesn't presently represent my riding, but he is switching to it > for the next election. He also lives in our neighbourhood. As long as > it isn't tax money, I'm not so sure it's my place to tell him how to > spend it. But if I get the chance, I'll bring up his poor choice of > supplier. He's not in my riding either, but I sent him a couple of notes pointing out the situation, including the shake down scam. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 13:47:56 2007 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:47:56 -0400 Subject: (question) Copying audio CD by command line? In-Reply-To: <20070814052729.GA11865-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070814052729.GA11865@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1187099276.5710.16.camel@ubuntu> On Tue, 2007-08-14 at 01:27 -0400, William Park wrote: > I would like to duplicate (aka. clone) an audio CD. How do I do this > using command line? > > My guess is that the solution is some permutation of 'cdrecord', > 'readcd', 'cdrdao', and 'cdparanoia'. From what I've read so far, I > would extract track by track, and then write them to a new CD. But, I > want to copy all info from the original CD, not just audio. > > Any pointers would be appreciated. The tool for that is definitely cdrdao. IIRC, just doing "cdrdao copy" should do the trick. If you want to keep an image of the CD, then use: $ cdrdao read-cd --datafile cd_name.bin cd_name.toc and then write the cd with: $ cdrdao write-cd --datafile cd_name.bin cd_name.toc -kms -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 14:28:49 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:28:49 -0400 Subject: LCD monitors In-Reply-To: <20070812130640.GA31001-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070807142012.GB29129@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070812130640.GA31001@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070814142849.GC3460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Sun, Aug 12, 2007 at 09:06:40AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Tue, Aug 07, 2007 at 10:20:12AM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> I am finally getting an LCD monitor, and I'm wondering if I have to do >> anything over than 'dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg'? I've had the same >> 17" CRT since I started using Linux in 2000, so I'm unsure if I need to >> do anything special. The monitor finally arrived, and it has a VGA input, so my video card just plugged right in with no need for an adapter, which is nice. My dpkg-reconfigure command worked fine, but now I have a couple of questions. Is there an advantage to the digital input (should I get a DVI video card)? It is set at its native resolution right now - do I need to do anything else - is sub-pixel hinting a good thing? For reference, the monitor I got is this one: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=cadhs1&sku=320-5205 It's a bit huge, and almost too bright to look at, but it's seems very nice :-) -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 15:23:02 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:23:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: LCD monitors In-Reply-To: <20070812130949.GB31001-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070807142012.GB29129@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1f13df280708071457w69b9bcfdhe6c8c66dff951ed8@mail.gmail.com> <61e9e2b10708081925u318d6238m9a16079c28972d0e@mail.gmail.com> <4192.192.168.0.103.1186633415.squirrel@www.lijour.net> <20070812130949.GB31001@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | I am currently looking for something that will do 1920x1200, since I am | moving away from a 21" CRT that does 1600x1200, and I just can't go down | to 1680x1050. :) The Dell 2407WFP looks nice. The 2407WFP-HC is probably an excellent monitor. I have the previous version and am quite happy. But I don't have lots of other monitors to compare it with. Today's entry in the Dell's "10 Days of Deals" is this monitor: $599 http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=477155 http://accessories.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=cadhs1&sku=320-5647 This is $50 less than an otherwise good price for this monitor: http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=474824 So if you know that you want this monitor, buy it today. LCDs are continuously getting better and cheaper. But not in a 100% predictable way. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 15:33:48 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:33:48 -0400 Subject: LCD monitors In-Reply-To: References: <20070807142012.GB29129@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1f13df280708071457w69b9bcfdhe6c8c66dff951ed8@mail.gmail.com> <61e9e2b10708081925u318d6238m9a16079c28972d0e@mail.gmail.com> <4192.192.168.0.103.1186633415.squirrel@www.lijour.net> <20070812130949.GB31001@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070814153348.GH9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 14, 2007 at 11:23:02AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > The 2407WFP-HC is probably an excellent monitor. I have the previous > version and am quite happy. But I don't have lots of other monitors > to compare it with. > > Today's entry in the Dell's "10 Days of Deals" is this monitor: $599 > http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=477155 > http://accessories.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=cadhs1&sku=320-5647 > > This is $50 less than an otherwise good price for this monitor: > http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=474824 > > So if you know that you want this monitor, buy it today. > > LCDs are continuously getting better and cheaper. But not in a 100% > predictable way. The 2407 has been on sale for 699 for the last few weeks, and today is 599 as their tuesday special. I just ordered one. :) What a convinient time for it to go on sale. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 15:38:51 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:38:51 -0400 Subject: LCD monitors In-Reply-To: <20070814142849.GC3460-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070807142012.GB29129@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070812130640.GA31001@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070814142849.GC3460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070814153851.GI9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 14, 2007 at 10:28:49AM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > The monitor finally arrived, and it has a VGA input, so my video card > just plugged right in with no need for an adapter, which is nice. My > dpkg-reconfigure command worked fine, but now I have a couple of > questions. > > Is there an advantage to the digital input (should I get a DVI video > card)? Using VGA means going from digital (in the video card) to analog (on the cable) back to digital (in the LCD panel). Using DVI means digital all the way, which means much less change of interference and distorsions. And the screen doesn't have to worry about locking on to the signal to get alignment and such. Most of the time the analog signal will be perfectly fine and everything will work, but if there is any interference, the DVI will deal with it much better and should always give a perfectly stable display. > It is set at its native resolution right now - do I need to do anything > else - is sub-pixel hinting a good thing? Subpixel hinting can help fonts look better since the RGB pixels on the LCD are not going to blend quite as much as they do on a CRT, and having software know about that can help. > For reference, the monitor I got is this one: > http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=cadhs1&sku=320-5205 > > It's a bit huge, and almost too bright to look at, but it's seems very > nice :-) Make sure you configure X to run at 1680x1050, since that is the only proper resolution for that screen. Anything else with be a bit blurred. I look forward to getting my 24" 1920x1200 screen in a few weeks. Time to toss the pile of old 21" CRTs (none of which work properly anymore). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 15:44:08 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:44:08 -0400 Subject: Detecting LCD Monitors. In-Reply-To: References: <158502.90693.qm@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070814154408.GJ9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 13, 2007 at 08:28:41PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Here's a rather confusing extract from my machine's Xorg.0.log: > > 1 (II) NV(0): Probing for EDID on I2C bus B... > 2 (II) NV(0): I2C device "DDC:ddc2" registered at address 0xA0. > 3 (II) NV(0): I2C device "DDC:ddc2" removed. > * 4 (--) NV(0): DDC detected a DFP: Well DFP means digital flat panel. Certainly good to know. > 5 (II) NV(0): Manufacturer: DEL Model: 4016 Serial#: 1194472500 > 6 (II) NV(0): Year: 2005 Week: 51 > 7 (II) NV(0): EDID Version: 1.3 > 8 (II) NV(0): Digital Display Input > * 9 (II) NV(0): Max H-Image Size [cm]: horiz.: 64 vert.: 40 > 10 (II) NV(0): Gamma: 2.20 > 11 (II) NV(0): DPMS capabilities: Off; RGB/Color Display > * 12 (II) NV(0): First detailed timing not preferred mode in violation of standard! > * 13 (II) NV(0): redX: 0.640 redY: 0.343 greenX: 0.292 greenY: 0.611 > 14 (II) NV(0): blueX: 0.146 blueY: 0.074 whiteX: 0.313 whiteY: 0.331 > 15 (II) NV(0): Manufacturer's mask: 0 > 16 (II) NV(0): Supported additional Video Mode: > 17 (II) NV(0): clock: 71.0 MHz Image Size: 646 x 406 mm > 18 (II) NV(0): h_active: 1280 h_sync: 1328 h_sync_end 1360 h_blank_end 1440 h_border: 0 > 19 (II) NV(0): v_active: 800 v_sync: 803 v_sync_end 809 v_blanking: 823 v_border: 0 > 20 (II) NV(0): Supported additional Video Mode: > 21 (II) NV(0): clock: 268.0 MHz Image Size: 646 x 406 mm > 22 (II) NV(0): h_active: 2560 h_sync: 2608 h_sync_end 2640 h_blank_end 2720 h_border: 0 > 23 (II) NV(0): v_active: 1600 v_sync: 1603 v_sync_end 1609 v_blanking: 1646 v_border: 0 > 24 (II) NV(0): Monitor name: DELL 3007WFP > 25 (II) NV(0): Serial No: JG5785CFG244 > 26 (II) NV(0): EDID (in hex): > 27 (II) NV(0): 00ffffffffffff0010ac164034343247 > 28 (II) NV(0): 330f01038040287828fe87a3574a9c25 > 29 (II) NV(0): 13505400000001010101010101010101 > 30 (II) NV(0): 010101010101bc1b00a0502017303020 > 31 (II) NV(0): 360086962100001ab06800a0a0402e60 > 32 (II) NV(0): 3020360086962100001e000000fc0044 > 33 (II) NV(0): 454c4c20333030375746500a000000ff > 34 (II) NV(0): 004a47353738354346473234340a0007 > * 35 (--) NV(0): CRTC 0 is currently programmed for DFP > * 36 (II) NV(0): Using DFP on CRTC 0 > 37 (--) NV(0): Panel size is 2560 x 1600 That line looks awfully useful. And of course the two modeline choices below are in fact the only two valid settings on that screen, of which the 2560x1600 is obviously the desired one. > 38 (II) NV(0): Printing DDC gathered Modelines: > 39 (II) NV(0): Modeline "1280x800" 71.00 1280 1328 1360 1440 800 803 809 823 -hsync +vsync > 40 (II) NV(0): Modeline "2560x1600" 268.00 2560 2608 2640 2720 1600 1603 1609 1646 +hsync +vsync > * 41 (II) NV(0): Panel is TMDS > 42 (--) NV(0): VideoRAM: 262144 kBytes > 43 (==) NV(0): Using gamma correction (1.0, 1.0, 1.0) > 44 (II) NV(0): : Using hsync range of 49.31-98.71 kHz > 45 (II) NV(0): : Using vrefresh range of 59.86-59.97 Hz > 46 (II) NV(0): Estimated virtual size for aspect ratio 1.6000 is 2560x1600 > 47 (II) NV(0): Clock range: 12.00 to 400.00 MHz > 48 (II) NV(0): Not using default mode "640x350" (hsync out of range) > > Things to note: > > Line 4 says that a Digital Flat Panel was detected. Could that be > what you are looking for? Lines 35 and 36 also mention DFP. Well certainly with the nvidia driver, this is useful info. The fglrx ati driver gives rather different output. > Line 9 tells you the size of the display. That could be used to tell > the aspect ratio. As well, if this were to get into the xorg.conf > Monitor section's DisplaySize declaration, I think that X will scale > fonts to make them readable for most people. > > Line 41 says that the panel is TMDS. Perhaps that strongly suggests LCD. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_Minimized_Differential_Signaling > > Line 12 says that the monitor violates some standard. > > Line 12 seems to suggest that the data specifies a preferred mode. > Perhaps that is what you shuld be using. Interesting, although there is the issue that only the 1280x800 mode is always going to work, while 2560x1600 only works with a dual link cable and dual link port. Perhaps that is why the data was arranged that way so that the first mode was the mode that would always work, and the prefered mode is the one that might not work if the system setup is wrong. > BTW, lines 12 and 13 were actually one originally: I broke them > appart. I would guess that this is an X bug. > > Context: > - Fedora 7 x86_64 > - nVidia 7800GTX > - Dell 3007FPW 2560x1600 pixels > - nv (open-source, 2d-only) driver > - xorg-x11-server 1.3.0.0-9.fc7 -- Len SOrensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 15:45:05 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:45:05 -0400 Subject: Dell Inspiron 530 compatability questions before buying In-Reply-To: <20070814010657.GA8977-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070811194222.GA6070@waltdnes.org> <20070812022527.GB25648@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070814010657.GA8977@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20070814154505.GK9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 13, 2007 at 09:06:57PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > laptop??? What laptop? I don't recall mentioning laptop anywhere. See > http://configure.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=ca&CS=cadhs1&l=en&OC=D530DV_F_2E > It's definitely a desktop. Hmm, I must have been confused by something else I read in another message. I can believe the desktop lasting that well. They seem to be OK. Avoid the laptops from Dell is my opinion. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 15:46:35 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:46:35 -0400 Subject: (question) Copying audio CD by command line? In-Reply-To: <20070814052729.GA11865-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070814052729.GA11865@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20070814154635.GL9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 14, 2007 at 01:27:29AM -0400, William Park wrote: > I would like to duplicate (aka. clone) an audio CD. How do I do this > using command line? > > My guess is that the solution is some permutation of 'cdrecord', > 'readcd', 'cdrdao', and 'cdparanoia'. From what I've read so far, I > would extract track by track, and then write them to a new CD. But, I > want to copy all info from the original CD, not just audio. > > Any pointers would be appreciated. cdrdao should be the simplest way to do a complete dump (data and toc) of a CD, and then burn a copy matching the original. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 16:25:48 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 12:25:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Stuff to give away... Message-ID: <458625.56660.qm@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I am still in the process of clearing out some old (and not so old) Linux related stuff, which I will be passing on at tonight's GTALug meeting, namely: - Some IO cards (ISA, PCI and AGP) - Some recent copies of Linux Journal - At least one (old) optical drive - Some old Linux install CDs (Novell and Red Hat). - PC133 RAM - A few other small bits... I am looking for some DDR memory of almost any speed/size as I am looking at bringing up a second testing box, on basically no money... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 16:45:28 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 12:45:28 -0400 Subject: New Laptop and 802.11 In-Reply-To: References: <60047.208.72.127.64.1186336344.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> <46B70F69.2040500@rogers.com> <20070812022114.GA25648@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070814164528.GM9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 14, 2007 at 12:57:19PM +0300, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > I have an Intel chipset - Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 2200BG to be > specific, and the damn thing has never worked for me. I run up to date > fedora 6, and wonder if someone has had any luck with it, as this post > infer it should be possible. Well if you have the ipw2200 driver (which certainly wasn't part of the kernel last I checked but available seperately), along with the required firmware files, then I believe it should work quite well. On debian the package for the driver is ipw2200-modules-2.6.18-5-686 (or whichever cpu type the kernel is built for). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 21:31:19 2007 From: slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (SlackRat) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:31:19 +0200 Subject: OT - But Interesting - Wikipedia Sleuth Message-ID: <87643hst08.fsf@azurservers.com> See who's editing Wikipedia entries Tne CIA is identified as a major culprit Article: http://pcapostate.blogspot.com/2007/08/yep-blogs-were-right-whole-time-see.html Snoop for yourself: http://wikiscanner.virgil.gr/ -- SlackRat - No 4Q to Reply - They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 21:37:20 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:37:20 -0400 Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday In-Reply-To: <20070811155956.GB5433-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070810155954.GB27688@waltdnes.org> <3a97ef0708101004w6e7ce773te01ff351296a8986@mail.gmail.com> <20070811155956.GB5433@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20070814173720.15d6823d@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Walter Dnes left a post-it on the fridge: > On Fri, Aug 10, 2007 at 10:04:12AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote > > OK, so now my question would be: If a company - such as for example > > Swiss Chalet - which has American offices, sings a US copyrighted song > > that isn't such in Canada... could they still be sued? > > > > One might want to remember the fate of the neteller execs when they > > had a connecting flight through the US: > > > > http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/19/0035220 > > > > From what I remember of this case, the gentlemen in question were > > actually not even decision-makers, but rather shareholders, and I've > > even heard that they'd left that role before the new US law went into > > effect. > > > > You might think "it won't happen to me", but I suppose that those > > execs, or others such as Mr Arar though the same. Heck, if you're into > > online gambling, or have Cuban Cigars in your luggage, I'd be careful > > that your non-US flight doesn't have to have some form of diversion or > > emergency landing in US soil... it's just scary. > > As a lifelong small-c conservative, I never thought I'd ever say this, > but the collapse of the USSR has been a bad thing for the rest of the > world. The US is the only bully left in the schoolyard, and it can do > what it damn well pleases. Who ya going to turn to to help you against > them? Actually, the US clearly did not learn the lessons of the USSR after its experiences in Afghanistan. Soon the American empire will find itself just about as relevant as that of the former Soviet Union, ie. not at all. Empires do not require an enemy to become pretty much ignored and ineffective. They do it to themselves every time. Beautiful thing to watch. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Lucy Liu: That was incredible, Bender. You're like Jackie Chan before he got all doughy. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 21:41:01 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:41:01 -0400 Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday In-Reply-To: <1186856318.8677.19.camel@ubuntu> References: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070810155954.GB27688@waltdnes.org> <3a97ef0708101004w6e7ce773te01ff351296a8986@mail.gmail.com> <20070811155956.GB5433@waltdnes.org> <1186856318.8677.19.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: <20070814174101.0700b57c@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Kareem Shehata left a post-it on the fridge: > On Sat, 2007-08-11 at 11:59 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > > > As a lifelong small-c conservative, I never thought I'd ever say this, > > but the collapse of the USSR has been a bad thing for the rest of the > > world. The US is the only bully left in the schoolyard, and it can do > > what it damn well pleases. Who ya going to turn to to help you against > > them? > > > > China. > > I for one welcome our new communist overlords! lol. Kent Brockman? -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "Why don't you just come move in with me?" -Bender "Really? That would be great! You sure I won't be imposing?" -Fry "Nah. I've always wanted a pet." -Bender -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 22:02:41 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:02:41 -0400 Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday In-Reply-To: <20070814173720.15d6823d-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070810155954.GB27688@waltdnes.org> <3a97ef0708101004w6e7ce773te01ff351296a8986@mail.gmail.com> <20070811155956.GB5433@waltdnes.org> <20070814173720.15d6823d@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <46C22681.80209@rogers.com> JoeHill wrote: > Empires do not require an enemy to become pretty much ignored and ineffective. > They do it to themselves every time. Beautiful thing to watch. > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2168426,00.asp?kc=EWRSS03129TX1K0000616 -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 22:14:59 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:14:59 -0400 Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday In-Reply-To: <46C22681.80209-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070810155954.GB27688@waltdnes.org> <3a97ef0708101004w6e7ce773te01ff351296a8986@mail.gmail.com> <20070811155956.GB5433@waltdnes.org> <20070814173720.15d6823d@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46C22681.80209@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070814181459.0a4eb481@node1.freeyourmachine.org> James Knott left a post-it on the fridge: > JoeHill wrote: > > Empires do not require an enemy to become pretty much ignored and > > ineffective. They do it to themselves every time. Beautiful thing to watch. > > > > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2168426,00.asp?kc=EWRSS03129TX1K0000616 Heh, the most beeeeaauuuutiful of all :-) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: OK, but I don't want anyone thinking we're robosexuals. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 22:17:04 2007 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:17:04 -0400 Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday In-Reply-To: <20070814174101.0700b57c-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20070814174101.0700b57c@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <46c229d7.0b6a400a.2262.0e24@mx.google.com> -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of JoeHill Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 5:41 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday >> I for one welcome our new communist overlords! > >lol. Kent Brockman? Shhh! Don't let out my secret identity! -kms No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.17/951 - Release Date: 8/13/2007 10:15 AM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 00:12:33 2007 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:12:33 -0400 Subject: OT - But Interesting - Wikipedia Sleuth Message-ID: <46C244F1.4090905@rogers.com> Oh horror of horrors. Individuals and corporations are exercising their rights to make edits to Wikipedia and as a result it's not very factual anymore. Why is this author (and seemingly many others) so surprised? I've got to sat that opening an article with this line :" Golly, I would have expected that this sofware engineer/genius would have been black, that's what Hollywood and the Jews Media are always touting isn't it?" makes me think that the author may have an agenda that has skewed his thinking and his conclusions. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 00:47:16 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:47:16 -0400 Subject: OT - But Interesting - Wikipedia Sleuth In-Reply-To: <46C244F1.4090905-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46C244F1.4090905@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070814204716.3f6f5fb2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> John McGregor left a post-it on the fridge: > Oh horror of horrors. Individuals and corporations are exercising their > rights to make edits to Wikipedia and as a result it's not very factual > anymore. Why is this author (and seemingly many others) so surprised? Corporations have rights? That's news to me. They're not mentioned in any of the great iterations of individual rights that I'm aware of. Anyway... Doesn't sound like they're surprised at all. Sounds more like he's got kind of a shit-eating grin, seeing that people who thought they would somehow be 'anonymous' in editing Wikipedia to fulfill some clearly conflicting corporate interest (ie. profits) are finding out exactly the opposite. While I'm not saying that anyone should be barred from editing Wikipedia, if they're going to delete a bunch of embarassing information then that fact is certainly not going to be allowed to remain hidden. I can certainly sympathize with that feeling, hell everybody should on some level these days. It's about time that corporate interests were subject to the same issues regarding privacy and anonymity that individuals are, that is to say, having none at all. It's hilarious to me that corporations have been arguing before their golfing buddies on the courts that they have the same rights as individuals, and at the same time argue that they should enjoy greater rights to privacy and anonymity in their dealings than individuals have. > I've got to sat that opening an article with this line :" Golly, I would > have expected that this sofware engineer/genius would have been black, > that's what Hollywood and the Jews Media are always touting isn't it?" > makes me think that the author may have an agenda that has skewed his > thinking and his conclusions. It looks to me like an attempt at some kind of ironic humour, though I really don't get it. If that's not it, I have no idea what that little intro represents. Weird. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: "I came here with a simple dream, a dream of killing all humans." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 02:11:13 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 22:11:13 -0400 Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday In-Reply-To: <46C22681.80209-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070810155954.GB27688@waltdnes.org> <3a97ef0708101004w6e7ce773te01ff351296a8986@mail.gmail.com> <20070811155956.GB5433@waltdnes.org> <20070814173720.15d6823d@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46C22681.80209@rogers.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420708141911w53b9dfdesed4cae5abfae3ce6@mail.gmail.com> On 8/14/07, James Knott wrote: > JoeHill wrote: > > Empires do not require an enemy to become pretty much ignored and ineffective. > > They do it to themselves every time. Beautiful thing to watch. > > > > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2168426,00.asp?kc=EWRSS03129TX1K0000616 The general "feel" of that article is nice, but the details in it are rather questionable. From the article: "[In a Linux-based OS there is] no such thing as a DLL, which Crawford described as the second most evil thing in Windows behind ActiveX." Doesn't an .so serve the same purpose as a DLL? I don't know much about DLLs, so there could be subtle differences in purpose that I'm unaware of, but I though DLL stood for "dynamic link library", or something similar, and is therefor basically the same as an .so (shared object, right?). Also from the article: "We also need to get the different distributions to work on a common release cycle," I suppose you might convince Suse, Red Hat, and Ubuntu to come up with some kind of general intention to _try_ to adhere to a common release schedule, but outside of that this suggestion seems like complete lunacy to me. It may be the case that Vista is driving Windows users to Linux, but the article seems to have weak foundations.... Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 03:13:24 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:13:24 -0400 Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday In-Reply-To: <7ac602420708141911w53b9dfdesed4cae5abfae3ce6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070810155954.GB27688@waltdnes.org> <3a97ef0708101004w6e7ce773te01ff351296a8986@mail.gmail.com> <20070811155956.GB5433@waltdnes.org> <20070814173720.15d6823d@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46C22681.80209@rogers.com> <7ac602420708141911w53b9dfdesed4cae5abfae3ce6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070814231324.65c55aa4@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Ian Petersen left a post-it on the fridge: > On 8/14/07, James Knott wrote: > > JoeHill wrote: > > > Empires do not require an enemy to become pretty much ignored and > > > ineffective. They do it to themselves every time. Beautiful thing to > > > watch. > > > > > > > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2168426,00.asp?kc=EWRSS03129TX1K0000616 > > The general "feel" of that article is nice, but the details in it are > rather questionable. From the article: > > "[In a Linux-based OS there is] no such thing as a DLL, which Crawford > described as the second most evil thing in Windows behind ActiveX." > > Doesn't an .so serve the same purpose as a DLL? I don't know much > about DLLs, so there could be subtle differences in purpose that I'm > unaware of, but I though DLL stood for "dynamic link library", or > something similar, and is therefor basically the same as an .so > (shared object, right?). Functionally, they are very similar, ie. they provide functionality that is 'shared' by different applications. In practical terms, they are not even remotely the same thing. For one thing, there is absolutely no consensus whatsoever among developers that produce Windows applications in terms of what is contained in them. Installing an application from one vendor will very often give you a libray which contains code that is not only redundant and duplicated many many times on your system (bloat, confusion), but may even go so far as to conflict with a library installed with software from another vendor (lockups, crashes, and a security nightmare). Nice. Contrast this with shared objects on the FOSS side: as far as I know, there is almost zero probability that my install of imlib2.so will conflict with anything else, because most every open source developer on the planet knows exactly what is contained in imlib2.so, and so they have no need to bother including anything with their software which might duplicate, or worse, conflict with, the code in imlib2.so. In fact, so far as I know, I have never ever installed an application on my system which came with its own bunch of .so files. They rely on package management to make sure that my system will have all the required shared objects in order to function properly. Of course, I'm sure this is not 100%. It has never happened to me or anyone I am aware of, but conflicts or duplication could happen. But comparing that to what happens on Windows is really not realistic at all. > Also from the article: > > "We also need to get the different distributions to work on a common > release cycle," > > I suppose you might convince Suse, Red Hat, and Ubuntu to come up with > some kind of general intention to _try_ to adhere to a common release > schedule, but outside of that this suggestion seems like complete > lunacy to me. Perhaps, I don't know. I'm not sure how significant this is to the success of LInux, though. The numbers in the article which clearly show that Linux is making huge gains in terms of users and developers seem to contradict the idea that a common release cycle is a basic prerequisite to success. Sure, it would _help_, but it does not appear to holding us back, eh? > It may be the case that Vista is driving Windows users to Linux, but > the article seems to have weak foundations.... Two minor points (neither of which you have demonstrated to be of any consequence) is is 'weak foundations'? -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Lucy Liu: That was incredible, Bender. You're like Jackie Chan before he got all doughy. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 05:24:56 2007 From: slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (SlackRat) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 07:24:56 +0200 Subject: OT - But Interesting - Wikipedia Sleuth In-Reply-To: <20070814204716.3f6f5fb2-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> (joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org's message of "Tue\, 14 Aug 2007 20\:47\:16 -0400") References: <46C244F1.4090905@rogers.com> <20070814204716.3f6f5fb2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <87wsvxqsif.fsf@azurservers.com> JoeHill writes: > John McGregor left a post-it on the fridge: > >> Oh horror of horrors. Individuals and corporations are exercising their >> rights to make edits to Wikipedia and as a result it's not very factual >> anymore. Why is this author (and seemingly many others) so surprised? > > Corporations have rights? That's news to me. They're not mentioned in any of > the great iterations of individual rights that I'm aware of. Anyway... > A good example, indicating that you really have to read _anything_ in Wikipedia with a heafty dose of scepticism is the fact that Coca Cola and Pepsi continually edit the Wikipedia entries to mitigate the fact that they simply fill their Bottles of "Healthy Spring Water" with filtered Municipal tap water and that in many instances it is in fact less healthy than the original tap water and that in Britain recently, Coca Cola's product was actually found to be contaminated and decidedly unhealthy.. Coca Cola also delete the fact that they paid a hefty fine recently for running this scam and have rcently, in the fine print, been disclosing that the source of their Elixir is P.W.S. - which is Spin Doctor DoubleSpeak for "Public Water Source", a tactic also employed by their rival, Pepsi. http://www.greenbang.com/324/the-big-bottled-water-scam/ The Preamble to the item was merely a continuation of a previous rant that there's about as much truth in Wikipedia as there is in the BBC and Fox News broadcasts where the BBC recently Slandered the Queen with an outright lie and were compelled to issue a grovelling apology which was not accepted and Her Maj is now tete-a-tete with her Lawyers, and good old Fox News completely forgot to mention Ron Paul in their reporting of the IOWA "Straw Poll" where he came 4th. despite the fact that they mentioned candidates who came 6th. and 7th. -- SlackRat - No 4Q to Reply - Idly wondering what happened to the Thirteenth Amendment to the US Constitution. The one that would have stripped Citizenship from the likes of Sir Rudy Giuliani, Sir Colin Powell and Sir Ronald Reagan and which was ratified by Virginia, the 13th and last requisite State to ratify an Amendment at that time, on March 12, 1819. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 05:32:46 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 01:32:46 -0400 Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday In-Reply-To: <20070814231324.65c55aa4-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <7ac602420708141911w53b9dfdesed4cae5abfae3ce6@mail.gmail.com> <20070814231324.65c55aa4@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <200708150132.47158.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Tuesday 14 August 2007 23:13, JoeHill wrote: > Ian Petersen left a post-it on the fridge: > > On 8/14/07, James Knott wrote: > > > JoeHill wrote: > > > > Empires do not require an enemy to become pretty much ignored > > > > and ineffective. They do it to themselves every time. > > > > Beautiful thing to watch. > > > > > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2168426,00.asp?kc=EWRSS031 > > >29TX1K0000616 > > > > The general "feel" of that article is nice, but the details in it > > are rather questionable. From the article: > > > > "[In a Linux-based OS there is] no such thing as a DLL, which > > Crawford described as the second most evil thing in Windows > > behind ActiveX." > > > > Doesn't an .so serve the same purpose as a DLL? I don't know > > much about DLLs, so there could be subtle differences in purpose > > that I'm unaware of, but I though DLL stood for "dynamic link > > library", or something similar, and is therefor basically the > > same as an .so (shared object, right?). > > Functionally, they are very similar, ie. they provide functionality > that is 'shared' by different applications. In practical terms, > they are not even remotely the same thing. For one thing, there is > absolutely no consensus whatsoever among developers that produce > Windows applications in terms of what is contained in them. > Installing an application from one vendor will very often give you > a libray which contains code that is not only redundant and > duplicated many many times on your system (bloat, confusion), but > may even go so far as to conflict with a library installed with > software from another vendor (lockups, crashes, and a security > nightmare). Nice. > > Contrast this with shared objects on the FOSS side: as far as I > know, there is almost zero probability that my install of imlib2.so > will conflict with anything else, because most every open source > developer on the planet knows exactly what is contained in > imlib2.so, and so they have no need to bother including anything > with their software which might duplicate, or worse, conflict with, > the code in imlib2.so. In fact, so far as I know, I have never ever > installed an application on my system which came with its own bunch > of .so files. They rely on package management to make sure that my > system will have all the required shared objects in order to > function properly. From: "Thus it is an environment issue related to compilation of the software and not a bug in any. Ie., Win32 DLL hell on Linux." I have had to deal with this issue while deploying Django apps on the same server being used to serve Drupal. glibc version issues are also "fun". -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 06:14:10 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 02:14:10 -0400 Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday In-Reply-To: <20070814231324.65c55aa4-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070810155954.GB27688@waltdnes.org> <3a97ef0708101004w6e7ce773te01ff351296a8986@mail.gmail.com> <20070811155956.GB5433@waltdnes.org> <20070814173720.15d6823d@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46C22681.80209@rogers.com> <7ac602420708141911w53b9dfdesed4cae5abfae3ce6@mail.gmail.com> <20070814231324.65c55aa4@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <7ac602420708142314j5fd9bd4ak5ec4aa5a54796c0@mail.gmail.com> On 8/14/07, JoeHill wrote: > Functionally, they are very similar, ie. they provide functionality that is > 'shared' by different applications. In practical terms, they are not even > remotely the same thing. For one thing, there is absolutely no consensus > whatsoever among developers that produce Windows applications in terms of what > is contained in them. Installing an application from one vendor will very often > give you a libray which contains code that is not only redundant and duplicated > many many times on your system (bloat, confusion), but may even go so far as to > conflict with a library installed with software from another vendor (lockups, > crashes, and a security nightmare). Nice. > > Contrast this with shared objects on the FOSS side: as far as I know, there is > almost zero probability that my install of imlib2.so will conflict with > anything else, because most every open source developer on the planet knows > exactly what is contained in imlib2.so, and so they have no need to bother > including anything with their software which might duplicate, or worse, > conflict with, the code in imlib2.so. In fact, so far as I know, I have never > ever installed an application on my system which came with its own bunch of .so > files. They rely on package management to make sure that my system will have > all the required shared objects in order to function properly. > > Of course, I'm sure this is not 100%. It has never happened to me or anyone I > am aware of, but conflicts or duplication could happen. But comparing that to > what happens on Windows is really not realistic at all. You have experience where I don't, so maybe Crawford is not as far off base as I thought, but it seems to me that the fundamental difference you outlined between DDLs and shared objects is that "you never know what's in an arbitrary DLL" and "you almost always know what's in an arbitrary .so" and I think that's got more to do with the open, communicative nature of FLOSS (as opposed to the closed, secretive nature of closed software) than it does with any fundamental difference between a DLL and an .so. If closed software developers published the contents of their DLLs, it seems to me you'd be able to count on the contents of an arbitrary DLL. This difference is indeed a benefit of running an open system instead of a closed one, but I still think Crawford is being misleading when he says "there's no such thing as a DLL"--although perhaps I'm picking apart technical trivialities that the average business person doesn't care about. > Perhaps, I don't know. I'm not sure how significant this is to the success of > LInux, though. The numbers in the article which clearly show that Linux is > making huge gains in terms of users and developers seem to contradict the idea > that a common release cycle is a basic prerequisite to success. Sure, it would > _help_, but it does not appear to holding us back, eh? I didn't mean to say that it was lunacy to conclude that a common release cycle would help Linux adoption. I meant that it was lunacy to think that you'd ever _have_ a common release cycle, and therefore someone that suggests we _need_ a common release cycle is perhaps not completely reasonable. As you say, we seem to be managing without one, so I can't see the need. > Two minor points (neither of which you have demonstrated to be of any > consequence) is is 'weak foundations'? I guess they _are_ rather minor points, and it was targeted at business people, not tech people, but I wondered if the existence of funny logic in some parts of the article indicated the existence of funny logic in the rest of article or the data sources used in preparing it. My BS-O-meter went off. YMMV. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 17:45:08 2007 From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:45:08 -0400 Subject: Stuff to give away... In-Reply-To: <458625.56660.qm-fjYszm/wOJWB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <458625.56660.qm@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070814134508.9jlwfeevys80cccg@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> Hi Colin, I suggest checking out Value Village - I just recently donated a bunch of old hardware to the one around Queen West and Logan. Though I don't think there was any DDR memory in my box o' parts, I did notice that they had a ton of old hardware kicking around. Quoting Colin McGregor : > I am still in the process of clearing out some old > (and not so old) Linux related stuff, which I will be > passing on at tonight's GTALug meeting, namely: > > - Some IO cards (ISA, PCI and AGP) > - Some recent copies of Linux Journal > - At least one (old) optical drive > - Some old Linux install CDs (Novell and Red Hat). > - PC133 RAM > - A few other small bits... > > I am looking for some DDR memory of almost any > speed/size as I am looking at bringing up a second > testing box, on basically no money... > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 11:04:58 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 07:04:58 -0400 Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday In-Reply-To: <7ac602420708141911w53b9dfdesed4cae5abfae3ce6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070810155954.GB27688@waltdnes.org> <3a97ef0708101004w6e7ce773te01ff351296a8986@mail.gmail.com> <20070811155956.GB5433@waltdnes.org> <20070814173720.15d6823d@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46C22681.80209@rogers.com> <7ac602420708141911w53b9dfdesed4cae5abfae3ce6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46C2DDDA.5010807@rogers.com> Ian Petersen wrote: > On 8/14/07, James Knott wrote: > >> JoeHill wrote: >> >>> Empires do not require an enemy to become pretty much ignored and ineffective. >>> They do it to themselves every time. Beautiful thing to watch. >>> >>> >>> >> http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2168426,00.asp?kc=EWRSS03129TX1K0000616 >> > > The general "feel" of that article is nice, but the details in it are > rather questionable. From the article: > > "[In a Linux-based OS there is] no such thing as a DLL, which Crawford > described as the second most evil thing in Windows behind ActiveX." > > Doesn't an .so serve the same purpose as a DLL? I don't know much > about DLLs, so there could be subtle differences in purpose that I'm > unaware of, but I though DLL stood for "dynamic link library", or > something similar, and is therefor basically the same as an .so > (shared object, right?). > > In Windows, DLL's are often changed with the installation of an application. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 13:17:47 2007 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:17:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: cat 5 & electrical In-Reply-To: <20070812132431.GE31001-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <286450.54510.qm@web88213.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46BD2089.8090607@rogers.com> <46BDD2CC.2040405@chrisaitken.net> <20070812132431.GE31001@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Aug 2007, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Why Cat5? You need 5e or 6 to run gigabit. Why would you wire with > less than 5e anymore? Often when people say "Cat5" these days they are referringh to Cat5e because the original Cat5 is so bad. I think that is what is happening here. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 14:18:23 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:18:23 -0400 Subject: Music Managers In-Reply-To: <1186674111.5644.11.camel@ubuntu> References: <1183733161.5608.9.camel@ubuntu> <39020.199.246.40.54.1183734851.squirrel@smail.payneful.ca> <468EC83D.1090606@golden.net> <1186674111.5644.11.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: <20070815101823.3783eccc@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Kareem Shehata left a post-it on the fridge: > On Fri, 2007-07-06 at 18:54 -0400, John Myshrall wrote: > > > > Rhythmbox is a lot like iTunes. > > > > > > http://www.gnome.org/projects/rhythmbox/ > > > > > > David Payne > > > > > > -- > > > > > And it supports network attached storage devices. Amarok doesn't if you > > need this feature. > > > I've been playing with rhythmbox, and I like some of the UI features of > it and that it reads the iPod, but how do I sync? Or is that not > available yet? Try gtkpod, I used this on my Ubuntu Feisty box and it worked quite well. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: A woman like that you gotta romance first! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 16:43:40 2007 From: maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 12:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Power Spike question In-Reply-To: References: <46BF9D85.5010100@rogers.com> <08795C772787354E914917175F5503301B46A5@skarloey.diaslan.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Aug 2007, Alex Maynard wrote: On Sun, 12 Aug 2007, Jose A. Dias wrote: > >> Yes, very possible. >> >> Surges will take whatever path is available. >> >> Any, and all, computer equipment should be behind a surge protector, and >> if possible, behind a working UPS. > If I remember correctly, my UPS had explicit warnings not to plug the printer into it. Alex >> To fix your client's problem, I'd start by booting the PC without *any* >> peripherals, and see what you get. Run a "chkdsk /f c:" and see what >> that gives you. Hopefully you will not need to scrap the computer, but >> with spikes that's always a possibility. >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of John >>> McGregor >>> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 7:54 PM >>> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >>> Subject: [TLUG]: Power Spike question >>> >>> Hi Folk, >>> I have a question about possible damage from a power spike. I >> was >>> at a client's home today and his Win XP computer was erroring out with >> a >>> missing DLL message, his printer was dead (as was the wall receptacle >>> into which the printer was plugged). The computer was surge protected >>> but the printer was not and the printer was connected to the computer >>> via a usb cable. Could a power spike from the bad wall receptacle have >>> taken out the printer and then also affected the computer via the usb >>> connection? >>> >>> TIA >>> >>> John >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> -- >> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. >> It has removed 8507 spam emails to date. >> Paying users do not have this message in their emails. >> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 17:34:15 2007 From: maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:34:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Adding Verdana font to Adobe Acrobat to read Air Canada tickets? Message-ID: Hi All, I am wondering if anyone might have any tips for me on a small font problem I'm having in Adobe Acrobat in unbuntu? In order to read the Verdana fonts in Air Canada PDF files I added the msttcorefonts (microsoft fonts) package (sudo apt-get install msttcorefonts) as suggested at: http://mondaybynoon.com/2007/04/02/linux-font-equivalents-to-popular-web-typefaces/ The install was fine and using xpdf I can see the fonts (and airline ticket), but acrobat still gives me a missing Verdana font error and file full of dots. I know Verdana is now on my computer since xpdf can read, but I am not really sure how to get acroread to find it. Am I missing something obvious? Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 17:46:11 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:46:11 -0400 Subject: Bandwidth monitor for a server with many virtual hosts Message-ID: <46C33BE3.4000309@alteeve.com> Hi all, Until now, I have not worried about how much bandwidth various customers whom we host use. Now that our number of clients grows though, I need to start tracking who uses how much bandwidth. What do you guys here use to log bandwidth usage? Our clients use mail, web and can copy data to/from the server via scp/rsync. I suspect I could hack up something using TCP dump, but I really doubt I could come up with something elegant and efficient. :) Thanks all! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 17:53:52 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:53:52 -0400 Subject: Bandwidth monitor for a server with many virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <46C33BE3.4000309-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46C33BE3.4000309@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20070815175352.GB27671@watson-wilson.ca> Can you better define virtual host? Apache, Zen, Vmware or other? You want to measure bandwidth usage for each virtual host? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 3 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 18:08:01 2007 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:08:01 -0400 Subject: Power Spike question Message-ID: <46C34101.5010500@rogers.com> Alex wrote: > If I remember correctly, my UPS had explicit warnings not to plug the > printer > into it. That's because the power draw of a laser printer would drain a UPS in very quick order. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 18:12:17 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:12:17 -0400 Subject: Bandwidth monitor for a server with many virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <46C33BE3.4000309-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46C33BE3.4000309@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1187201537.11428.356.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Wed, 2007-08-15 at 13:46 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Until now, I have not worried about how much bandwidth various > customers whom we host use. Now that our number of clients grows though, > I need to start tracking who uses how much bandwidth. > > What do you guys here use to log bandwidth usage? Our clients use > mail, web and can copy data to/from the server via scp/rsync. I suspect > I could hack up something using TCP dump, but I really doubt I could > come up with something elegant and efficient. :) Do all of your virtualhosts use separate access_log and error_log files? That would make it easy to parse those for bytes transferred. It's won't take into account TCP overhead, but it would allow you single out a busy host. Have you taken a look at ntop and apachetop? Ntop can classify traffic by service (http vs. smtp vs pop vs https, etc) and by IP address. Apachetop shows you top-like stats on web page hits by tailing access_logs. Again not really what you are looking for but I thought I would offer it. -- Register for the Ontario Linux Fest Conference today! A Linux conference for users by users. http://onlinux.ca -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 866-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fax: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 18:12:33 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:12:33 -0400 Subject: Bandwidth monitor for a server with many virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <20070815175352.GB27671-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <46C33BE3.4000309@alteeve.com> <20070815175352.GB27671@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <46C34211.2090600@alteeve.com> Neil Watson wrote: > Can you better define virtual host? Apache, Zen, Vmware or other? You > want to measure bandwidth usage for each virtual host? Apache2 Virtual Hosts would be the main source of bandwidth and thus the one I would be most concerned about. Perhaps I can create a list of files under each VH container then parse logs against that? I was hoping for a more elegant solution though... Secondly, I would like to say "log any network traffic to these directories". This way I could just make a list of directories that are used by a given client and see how much data was read/written. Then there is the question of data going into/from a DB... *sigh* Hence my reason for asking. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 18:17:51 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:17:51 -0400 Subject: Bandwidth monitor for a server with many virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <1187201537.11428.356.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <46C33BE3.4000309@alteeve.com> <1187201537.11428.356.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <46C3434F.4050609@alteeve.com> John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Wed, 2007-08-15 at 13:46 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Until now, I have not worried about how much bandwidth various >> customers whom we host use. Now that our number of clients grows though, >> I need to start tracking who uses how much bandwidth. >> >> What do you guys here use to log bandwidth usage? Our clients use >> mail, web and can copy data to/from the server via scp/rsync. I suspect >> I could hack up something using TCP dump, but I really doubt I could >> come up with something elegant and efficient. :) > > Do all of your virtualhosts use separate access_log and error_log files? > That would make it easy to parse those for bytes transferred. It's won't > take into account TCP overhead, but it would allow you single out a busy > host. All VHs do have their own log directories. Though I find sometimes data is written to Apache2's main log file for some reason I've never resolved. Thankfully I think this is mainly for 'error', and not 'access'. If I know the packet size and the amount of data needed for each packet, shouldn't I be able to say 'fileX' is 'Y' size, which would need 'Z packets + TCP overhead' and come up with a reasonable number? I am not concerned with getting every last byte accounted for, but I do like being able to get anything as close to accurate as possible, for accuracy's sake. :) > Have you taken a look at ntop and apachetop? Ntop can classify traffic > by service (http vs. smtp vs pop vs https, etc) and by IP address. > Apachetop shows you top-like stats on web page hits by tailing > access_logs. Again not really what you are looking for but I thought I > would offer it. Those sound neat for other reasons, and no I haven't played with them. Thanks! However, I don't think it'd work quite well for me. Writing a script to read all the files in each VH container then tailing the access logs and periodically updating the file list and writing data to a DB would work. It just seems like such a cludge. I would be surprised it there isn't "a better way" out there... Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 18:34:46 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:34:46 -0400 Subject: Bandwidth monitor for a server with many virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <46C3434F.4050609-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46C33BE3.4000309@alteeve.com> <1187201537.11428.356.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <46C3434F.4050609@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1187202886.11428.372.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Wed, 2007-08-15 at 14:17 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > John Van Ostrand wrote: > All VHs do have their own log directories. Though I find sometimes data > is written to Apache2's main log file for some reason I've never > resolved. Thankfully I think this is mainly for 'error', and not 'access'. > > If I know the packet size and the amount of data needed for each packet, > shouldn't I be able to say 'fileX' is 'Y' size, which would need 'Z > packets + TCP overhead' and come up with a reasonable number? > > I am not concerned with getting every last byte accounted for, but I do > like being able to get anything as close to accurate as possible, for > accuracy's sake. :) I doubt you'd be able to get that count accurately. If you chose to base it on a standard MTU you should be able to get it much closer, but the MTU can be slightly lower for DSL connections and often much lower for modem connection. Satellite may also have a different MTU. Lower MTU means higher overhead. > Those sound neat for other reasons, and no I haven't played with them. > Thanks! However, I don't think it'd work quite well for me. Writing a > script to read all the files in each VH container then tailing the > access logs and periodically updating the file list and writing data to > a DB would work. It just seems like such a cludge. I would be surprised > it there isn't "a better way" out there... If I were to do it (after searching sf.net for something pre-existing) I would use a script to parse the access_log file for a given date, or a given hour and accumulate it in a database. Your up-to-date bandwidth would never be real-time but it would be simple. Even a 'tail' won't give you real-time, apache seems to chunk the writes for performance. -- Register for the Ontario Linux Fest Conference today! A Linux conference for users by users. http://onlinux.ca -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 866-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fax: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 18:36:26 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:36:26 -0400 Subject: Bandwidth monitor for a server with many virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <46C33BE3.4000309-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46C33BE3.4000309@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0708151136u15c71307iee2e93c257880734@mail.gmail.com> On 8/15/07, Madison Kelly wrote: > Until now, I have not worried about how much bandwidth various > customers whom we host use. Now that our number of clients grows though, > I need to start tracking who uses how much bandwidth. > > What do you guys here use to log bandwidth usage? Our clients use > mail, web and can copy data to/from the server via scp/rsync. I suspect > I could hack up something using TCP dump, but I really doubt I could > come up with something elegant and efficient. :) I've happily been using AWStats for several years. It doesn't track scp or rsync but does analyze and report web, ftp, and mail traffic. It's written in Perl; you may be able to extend it with additional log parsers for scp, rsync, tcp, etc. http://awstats.sourceforge.net/ -- Scott Elcomb [ http://www.psema4.com/ ] "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 18:44:48 2007 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:44:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Bandwidth monitor for a server with many virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <46C33BE3.4000309-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46C33BE3.4000309@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <362295.56185.qm@web60114.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, If you clients have different ip addresses then you can easily use any of the many bandwidth monitoring tools like mrtg.org, ntop.org, cacti.net etc. There are other more light-weighted programs without the fancy graphs. If you use virtual hosting in apache then you can measure http traffic with an apache log parsing/stat tool like awstat or webalizer, of course this won't account for mail/scp traffic. Fernando --- Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > Until now, I have not worried about how much > bandwidth various > customers whom we host use. Now that our number of > clients grows though, > I need to start tracking who uses how much > bandwidth. > > What do you guys here use to log bandwidth usage? > Our clients use > mail, web and can copy data to/from the server via > scp/rsync. I suspect > I could hack up something using TCP dump, but I > really doubt I could > come up with something elegant and efficient. :) > > Thanks all! > > Madison > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 18:52:23 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:52:23 -0400 Subject: OT: Next Time you sing happy birthday In-Reply-To: <7ac602420708141911w53b9dfdesed4cae5abfae3ce6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <00b101c7dad4$a15bac10$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070810155954.GB27688@waltdnes.org> <3a97ef0708101004w6e7ce773te01ff351296a8986@mail.gmail.com> <20070811155956.GB5433@waltdnes.org> <20070814173720.15d6823d@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46C22681.80209@rogers.com> <7ac602420708141911w53b9dfdesed4cae5abfae3ce6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070815185223.GN9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 14, 2007 at 10:11:13PM -0400, Ian Petersen wrote: > The general "feel" of that article is nice, but the details in it are > rather questionable. From the article: > > "[In a Linux-based OS there is] no such thing as a DLL, which Crawford > described as the second most evil thing in Windows behind ActiveX." > > Doesn't an .so serve the same purpose as a DLL? I don't know much > about DLLs, so there could be subtle differences in purpose that I'm > unaware of, but I though DLL stood for "dynamic link library", or > something similar, and is therefor basically the same as an .so > (shared object, right?). Certainly very similar. The difference is mainly in how they are handled. On linux when a program is loaded that requires a library, it loads the library along with the program. If another program is already using the same library from the same file, then only one copy of the copy is actually in memory (although any data space used by the library is seperate for each instance). If the file is replaced with a new version of the library, then any existing programs continue to use the version that is in memory, while any new programs will load the new version instead (in which case there will be a copy of both versions of the code in memory). On windows, when a program is loaded that requires a library, the dll is loaded into memory if it isn't already loaded. While the library is in use, you can not modify the file on disk. This makes replacing dll's on windows a real pain since you have to close all current users of the dll first. For many key system dll files this is imposible since the GUI itself is using them. The only way to replace the dll, is to schedule a task to replace the files on the next boot before starting the GUI. This is the main reason updates on windows so often require you to reboot. To me that is the main part of that makes windows have a dll hell. Nothing wrong with shared libraries, just something wrong with how windows deals with them. A big part of what causes the problem is that on windows you can not delete a file that is open. On linux you can delete it, but the inode of a file only goes away when all hardlinks to the file are deleted and all open file handles to the inode are closed. So having a program use a library on linux and deleting it, doesn't free the disk space, and the library can still be accessed as long as the program needs it, and you can hence easily install a new version of the library and start using it for new programs. Since windows won't let you delete or even change the file that is open and in use, you get the annoying problems when trying to update files that are in use. The other part of what gives dll hell on windows, is that they have historically been very bad at making sure the libraries kept a compatible ABI between versions. After all one would hope that a library claiming to be version 3 should work with all programs compiled against library version 3. Linux tends to be very good at that. Microsoft used to be very bad at it. They would fix little bugs and change suttle behaviours as part of minor upgrades, and break programs that depended on that specific behaviour in the interface. On linux each library is named libfoo.so.1.2.3 where 1.2.3 is the version of the library. A symlink named libfoo.so.1 will link to libfoo.so.1.2.3 as an implementation of the version 1 ABI of libfoo. Any program compiled against libfoo.so.1 should work with any version of libfoo.so.1.x.y and almost always do. They probably won't work with libfoo.so.2.3.4, since that would indicate a major change to the library interface. But you can have both libfoo.so.1 and libfoo.so.2 installed at once, so that isn't a problem. You could even have libfoo.so.1.2.3 and libfoo.so.1.1.2 installed, and if a program for some reason (they aren't supposed to) is linked against libfoo.so.1.1.2 specifically, it can still use that file, although most programs with use the libfoo.so.1 symlink which would normally be a symlink to the latest version of libfoo.so.1.x.y that is installed. On windows each library is often just named foo.dll and any version information is internal to the file in some header. So a program can say it needs at least version x.y.z of foo.dll, but if a program happens to only work with version 1.2.3 and you have 2.1.0, then you are out of luck because you can't install both files at the same time (you can cheat by putting the specific version into the directory containing the exe for the program, which almost always will cause it to load the local copy of the dll rather than the system default version of the dll.) In some cases you will see different file names for different major versions, such as vbrun300.dll, vbrun400.dll, etc. The linux method seems more flexible and more thought out. > Also from the article: > > "We also need to get the different distributions to work on a common > release cycle," > > I suppose you might convince Suse, Red Hat, and Ubuntu to come up with > some kind of general intention to _try_ to adhere to a common release > schedule, but outside of that this suggestion seems like complete > lunacy to me. Fixed release schedules cause crappy software. Releases that are done when they are ready and have no serious bugs left are much better. Any time marketing/sales get involved in deciding when a release has to be done is a mistake. They can offer input on when they would like it, and the feature set can be based on the expected amount of time to implement and debug the feature set, but if it still has bugs by the expected release date, well then the expected release date just won't be met (or you will be releasing buggy software which is bad for your reputation). > It may be the case that Vista is driving Windows users to Linux, but > the article seems to have weak foundations.... -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 18:55:34 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:55:34 -0400 Subject: Power Spike question In-Reply-To: References: <46BF9D85.5010100@rogers.com> <08795C772787354E914917175F5503301B46A5@skarloey.diaslan.net> Message-ID: <20070815185534.GO9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 12:43:40PM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: > If I remember correctly, my UPS had explicit warnings not to plug the > printer > into it. No, the warning is to not plug any _laser_ printer into it. So the same goes for any laser based fax or photocopier, or anything else that contains a fuser. The fuser causes a nasty power surge when it fires up, which UPS's and even surge protectors don't like. In fact you really want a surge protector between your computer and the nasty device with the fuser in it to protect against the surges it creates. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 18:57:33 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:57:33 -0400 Subject: Bandwidth monitor for a server with many virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <46C33BE3.4000309-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46C33BE3.4000309@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20070815185733.GP9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 01:46:11PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Until now, I have not worried about how much bandwidth various > customers whom we host use. Now that our number of clients grows though, > I need to start tracking who uses how much bandwidth. > > What do you guys here use to log bandwidth usage? Our clients use > mail, web and can copy data to/from the server via scp/rsync. I suspect > I could hack up something using TCP dump, but I really doubt I could > come up with something elegant and efficient. :) iptables can count packets/bytes for every rule. So if you can setup a rule for each virtual IP or whatever else you can define to identify each user, then you can keep track of those numbers. There are packages that configure and monitor iptables to generate usage reports already, although I can't seem to recall the name of the one I used in the past. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 19:10:53 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:10:53 -0400 Subject: OT - But Interesting - Wikipedia Sleuth In-Reply-To: <46C244F1.4090905-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46C244F1.4090905@rogers.com> Message-ID: <46C3177D.23114.27C44551@sciguy.vex.net> > Oh horror of horrors. Individuals and corporations are exercising their > rights to make edits to Wikipedia and as a result it's not very factual > anymore. Why is this author (and seemingly many others) so surprised? > > I've got to sat that opening an article with this line :" Golly, I would > have expected that this sofware engineer/genius would have been black, > that's what Hollywood and the Jews Media are always touting isn't it?" > makes me think that the author may have an agenda that has skewed his > thinking and his conclusions. > With the "CIA editing Wikipedia" headline, I think the author is attempting to be tongue-in-cheek by stringing together a few well-known paranoid conspiracy theories, with the implication that the CIA editing Wikipedia could be considered to be by some to be just as paranoid -- except, as the headline says, it really happened. Paul King > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > __________ NOD32 2464 (20070815) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 19:07:46 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:07:46 -0400 Subject: Bandwidth monitor for a server with many virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0708151136u15c71307iee2e93c257880734-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <46C33BE3.4000309@alteeve.com> <99a6c38f0708151136u15c71307iee2e93c257880734@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46C34F02.90608@alteeve.com> Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 8/15/07, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Until now, I have not worried about how much bandwidth various >> customers whom we host use. Now that our number of clients grows though, >> I need to start tracking who uses how much bandwidth. >> >> What do you guys here use to log bandwidth usage? Our clients use >> mail, web and can copy data to/from the server via scp/rsync. I suspect >> I could hack up something using TCP dump, but I really doubt I could >> come up with something elegant and efficient. :) > > I've happily been using AWStats for several years. It doesn't track > scp or rsync but does analyze and report web, ftp, and mail traffic. > > It's written in Perl; you may be able to extend it with additional log > parsers for scp, rsync, tcp, etc. > > http://awstats.sourceforge.net/ oooooh, a potential perl solution! This is gooood, very gooood. :P Thanks! Looking into it now! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 19:10:25 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:10:25 -0400 Subject: Bandwidth monitor for a server with many virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <20070815185733.GP9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <46C33BE3.4000309@alteeve.com> <20070815185733.GP9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <46C34FA1.1060505@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 01:46:11PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Until now, I have not worried about how much bandwidth various >> customers whom we host use. Now that our number of clients grows though, >> I need to start tracking who uses how much bandwidth. >> >> What do you guys here use to log bandwidth usage? Our clients use >> mail, web and can copy data to/from the server via scp/rsync. I suspect >> I could hack up something using TCP dump, but I really doubt I could >> come up with something elegant and efficient. :) > > iptables can count packets/bytes for every rule. So if you can setup a > rule for each virtual IP or whatever else you can define to identify > each user, then you can keep track of those numbers. There are packages > that configure and monitor iptables to generate usage reports already, > although I can't seem to recall the name of the one I used in the past. Heh, what is funny is that someone here at the office was talking about using virtual machines. I was hesitant though because I didn't want each client to have to have their own IP. That meant I would need to setup several port forwards for each client's virtual machine. I never even thought about using iptables for logging! Thanks, another good idea to look at! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 19:16:15 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:16:15 -0400 Subject: Bandwidth monitor for a server with many virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <46C34FA1.1060505-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46C33BE3.4000309@alteeve.com> <20070815185733.GP9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46C34FA1.1060505@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20070815191615.GD27671@watson-wilson.ca> On Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 03:10:25PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >Heh, what is funny is that someone here at the office was talking about >using virtual machines. I was hesitant though because I didn't want each >client to have to have their own IP. That meant I would need to setup Apache VMs do not need their own IP addresses. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 4 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 19:23:49 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:23:49 -0400 Subject: Bandwidth monitor for a server with many virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <20070815191615.GD27671-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <46C33BE3.4000309@alteeve.com> <20070815185733.GP9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46C34FA1.1060505@alteeve.com> <20070815191615.GD27671@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <46C352C5.9020009@alteeve.com> Neil Watson wrote: > On Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 03:10:25PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Heh, what is funny is that someone here at the office was talking >> about using virtual machines. I was hesitant though because I didn't >> want each client to have to have their own IP. That meant I would need >> to setup > > Apache VMs do not need their own IP addresses. Aye, but virtual machines each running their own apache do. ;) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 19:32:31 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:32:31 -0400 Subject: Bandwidth monitor for a server with many virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <46C34FA1.1060505-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46C33BE3.4000309@alteeve.com> <20070815185733.GP9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46C34FA1.1060505@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20070815193231.GQ9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 03:10:25PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Heh, what is funny is that someone here at the office was talking about > using virtual machines. I was hesitant though because I didn't want each > client to have to have their own IP. That meant I would need to setup > several port forwards for each client's virtual machine. I never even > thought about using iptables for logging! > > Don't forget that on the local machine, iptables can also do maching by userid, processid, etc. Not just based on IP. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 19:32:54 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:32:54 -0400 Subject: Bandwidth monitor for a server with many virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <20070815193231.GQ9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <46C33BE3.4000309@alteeve.com> <20070815185733.GP9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46C34FA1.1060505@alteeve.com> <20070815193231.GQ9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <46C354E6.4030204@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 03:10:25PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Heh, what is funny is that someone here at the office was talking about >> using virtual machines. I was hesitant though because I didn't want each >> client to have to have their own IP. That meant I would need to setup >> several port forwards for each client's virtual machine. I never even >> thought about using iptables for logging! >> >> > > Don't forget that on the local machine, iptables can also do maching by > userid, processid, etc. Not just based on IP. Huh, who'da thunk it... No I didn't know, thanks! If this works the "firewall" will only be used for logging, so it may be perfect. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 19:36:41 2007 From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:36:41 -0500 (CDT) Subject: OT - But Interesting - Wikipedia Sleuth In-Reply-To: <46C3177D.23114.27C44551-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <46C244F1.4090905@rogers.com> <46C3177D.23114.27C44551@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: silly anecdote: a while back, i logged on to one of my servers and noticed Last Login: XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX.cia.com i didn't recognize the address and it gave me a bit of a start... (until i remembered i'd been down at my dad's and logged in remotely) :-) Scott On Wed, 15 Aug 2007, Paul King wrote: >> Oh horror of horrors. Individuals and corporations are exercising their >> rights to make edits to Wikipedia and as a result it's not very factual >> anymore. Why is this author (and seemingly many others) so surprised? >> >> I've got to sat that opening an article with this line :" Golly, I would >> have expected that this sofware engineer/genius would have been black, >> that's what Hollywood and the Jews Media are always touting isn't it?" >> makes me think that the author may have an agenda that has skewed his >> thinking and his conclusions. >> > > With the "CIA editing Wikipedia" headline, I think the author is attempting to > be tongue-in-cheek by stringing together a few well-known paranoid conspiracy > theories, with the implication that the CIA editing Wikipedia could be > considered to be by some to be just as paranoid -- except, as the headline > says, it really happened. > > Paul King > >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> __________ NOD32 2464 (20070815) Information __________ >> >> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Scott C. Ripley phone: (416)738-6357 www: http://www.scottripley.com email: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Secure Your E-Mail! http://www.mysecuremail.com/javascrypt/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 19:53:41 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:53:41 -0400 Subject: OT - But Interesting - Wikipedia Sleuth In-Reply-To: References: <46C244F1.4090905@rogers.com> <46C3177D.23114.27C44551@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <20070815155341.67a0733f@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Scott C. Ripley left a post-it on the fridge: > silly anecdote: > > a while back, i logged on to one of my servers and noticed > > Last Login: XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX.cia.com > > i didn't recognize the address and it gave me a bit of a start... (until i > remembered i'd been down at my dad's and logged in remotely) Sooooo, your Dad works somewhere in Virginia? ;) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: OK, but I don't want anyone thinking we're robosexuals. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 21:42:03 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:42:03 -0400 Subject: cat 5 & electrical In-Reply-To: References: <286450.54510.qm@web88213.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46BD2089.8090607@rogers.com> <46BDD2CC.2040405@chrisaitken.net> <20070812132431.GE31001@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070815214203.15783.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Robert Brockway writes: > On Sun, 12 Aug 2007, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> Why Cat5? You need 5e or 6 to run gigabit. Why would you wire with >> less than 5e anymore? > > Often when people say "Cat5" these days they are referringh to Cat5e > because the original Cat5 is so bad. I think that is what is happening > here. Yeah, I was generically referring to it as cat 5. I think there is an E after the 5. I'll check when I'm back from holidaying. Thanks. Chris > > Cheers, > > Rob > > -- > "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." > -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 21:47:22 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:47:22 -0400 Subject: cat 5 & electrical In-Reply-To: <1186855496.8677.6.camel@ubuntu> References: <46BCD19B.9050309@chrisaitken.net> <46BCD8F4.8020309@rogers.com> <46BD164B.9060400@chrisaitken.net> <1186855496.8677.6.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: <20070815214722.24094.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Kareem Shehata writes: > On Fri, 2007-08-10 at 21:52 -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: >> Thanks. We're getting an electrician to inspect it and he wants to see >> separate holes minimum six inches apart - so we're going with that. >> > > Yup, that's a standard electrical practise, and it might actually be set > out in the electrical code. Not required for this particular case, Why? Chris but > a general requirement for building wiring to keep communication and > power wiring separate. > > -kms > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From demsullivan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 23:37:29 2007 From: demsullivan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Sullivan) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:37:29 -0400 Subject: OT but Tech-related Question Message-ID: <200708151937.32744.demsullivan@gmail.com> Hey All, I'm looking into switching Internet and TV service providers, and I've run across Look Communications, which provides DSL service and "Wireless TV" service. I'm just wondering, does anyone have any experience with this technology? For those who have never heard of it, they have a small frequency range in the 2.5GHz band that they use to broadcast digital TV signals from various broadcast points, which are connected by fibre to their distribution office. I'm not sure how reliable this service would be, or what the quality would be like. Can anyone provide any insight, or anecdotes about Look's services? They're very inexpensive and it sounds great. Thanks! -- Dave Sullivan dave-VvnUh7fPG/k7v45Mz1C67QC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org 647-235-0328 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 07:33:40 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:33:40 +0300 Subject: New Laptop and 802.11 In-Reply-To: <20070814164528.GM9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <60047.208.72.127.64.1186336344.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> <46B70F69.2040500@rogers.com> <20070812022114.GA25648@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070814164528.GM9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Hi Thanks dude. Thats a good pointer. Yeah I do have the driver and it looks like my problem is the later - freaking firmware. Will look at it some day when I get some time to spare, the ethernet cable is doing a good job at the moment. Regards William > Well if you have the ipw2200 driver (which certainly wasn't part of the > kernel last I checked but available seperately), along with the required > firmware files, then I believe it should work quite well. > > On debian the package for the driver is ipw2200-modules-2.6.18-5-686 (or > whichever cpu type the kernel is built for). > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 08:01:41 2007 From: slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (SlackRat) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:01:41 +0200 Subject: OT - But Interesting - Wikipedia Sleuth In-Reply-To: <20070815155341.67a0733f-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> (joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org's message of "Wed\, 15 Aug 2007 15\:53\:41 -0400") References: <46C244F1.4090905@rogers.com> <46C3177D.23114.27C44551@sciguy.vex.net> <20070815155341.67a0733f@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <87vebfx5zu.fsf@azurservers.com> JoeHill a ?crit profondement: > Sooooo, your Dad works somewhere in Virginia? ;) I love your face, Joe. But even with xmagnify, I can't figure out whether you're a FireFighter, Fisherman or something else ;) -- SlackRat - No 4Q to Reply - On the 50th anniversary of their original unification, the EU powers congratulated themselves on the way they had kept Europe free of war ever since 1945. They did not seem even to notice how they had just gone to war with a European nation called Serbia, and that the Soviet Union had kicked the living sh!t out of Hungary and Czechoslovakia. Libert?, ?galit?, Fraternit? == S?paration http://azurservers.com/forum/no-eu.png -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 13:58:49 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:58:49 -0400 Subject: virtual machines Message-ID: <20070816135849.GH3460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I need to use Citrix to log onto the network at work, but I don't like the idea of running Citrix's code on my nice clean machine with all open-source, community-vetted code. So, I was thinking I'd set up a virtual machine and run the Citrix client in that. Any recommendations for a easy-to-set-up virtual machine environment? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 14:04:34 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:04:34 -0400 Subject: virtual machines In-Reply-To: <20070816135849.GH3460-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070816135849.GH3460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070816140434.GA2823@watson-wilson.ca> That seems like a lot of work. However, I think that Vmware workstation si now free. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 4 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 14:10:15 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:10:15 -0400 Subject: virtual machines In-Reply-To: <20070816135849.GH3460-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070816135849.GH3460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1187273415.11428.391.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 09:58 -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I need to use Citrix to log onto the network at work, but I don't like > the idea of running Citrix's code on my nice clean machine with all > open-source, community-vetted code. So, I was thinking I'd set up a > virtual machine and run the Citrix client in that. Any recommendations > for a easy-to-set-up virtual machine environment? Thanks. VMWare is by far the easiest, but it breaks the "open source, community vetted code" rule. It is freely available but closed source. Xen is the next option, but it can be a little tricky and depending on your distro could be hard to implement. It as well is true virtualization. You could use a chroot'ed environment. It's not virtualization, but it does segment the files. Still all this is a little far to go in order to run a Citrix client. Why not use rdesktop? Is there not an open source ICA client? -- Register for the Ontario Linux Fest Conference today! A Linux conference for users by users. http://onlinux.ca -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 866-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fax: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 13:21:16 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:21:16 -0400 Subject: OT - But Interesting - Wikipedia Sleuth In-Reply-To: <87vebfx5zu.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <46C244F1.4090905@rogers.com> <46C3177D.23114.27C44551@sciguy.vex.net> <20070815155341.67a0733f@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <87vebfx5zu.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: <20070816092116.7373ae94@node1.freeyourmachine.org> SlackRat left a post-it on the fridge: > JoeHill a ?crit profondement: > > > Sooooo, your Dad works somewhere in Virginia? ;) > > I love your face, Joe. When I tell you who it is, I'm not so sure... > But even with xmagnify, I can't figure out whether you're a > FireFighter, Fisherman or something else ;) I like the fact it's kinda obscured, because he's not exactly popular with some people (putting it mildly). It's actually Eminem from the video 'Mosh'. Eminem may have started a few fires, but I'm quite sure he could not fish to save his life ;) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: He's a witch! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 14:39:54 2007 From: slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (SlackRat) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 16:39:54 +0200 Subject: OT - But Interesting - Wikipedia Sleuth In-Reply-To: <20070816092116.7373ae94-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> (joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org's message of "Thu\, 16 Aug 2007 09\:21\:16 -0400") References: <46C244F1.4090905@rogers.com> <46C3177D.23114.27C44551@sciguy.vex.net> <20070815155341.67a0733f@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <87vebfx5zu.fsf@azurservers.com> <20070816092116.7373ae94@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <87d4xna6h1.fsf@azurservers.com> JoeHill writes: > I like the fact it's kinda obscured, because he's not exactly popular with some > people (putting it mildly). It's actually Eminem from the video 'Mosh'. > > Eminem may have started a few fires, but I'm quite sure he could not fish to > save his life ;) > Well thanks for the info But I'm still no wiser Firstly I don't reside in North America and secondly the last time I went to the movies was to see Johnny Weismuller as Tarzan. And that's about 60 years ago now ;) -- SlackRat - No fsck-U to Reply - Holding a joint press conference with the new British Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, George W. Bush called Iraq a 'new democracy' http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18102.htm -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 14:44:55 2007 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:44:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: virtual machines In-Reply-To: <1187273415.11428.391.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1187273415.11428.391.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <602589.20955.qm@web60115.mail.yahoo.com> Citrix bought Xensource yesterday btw http://www.xensource.com/about/Pages/CitrixAcquisition.aspx Fernando --- John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 09:58 -0400, William O'Higgins > Witteman wrote: > > I need to use Citrix to log onto the network at > work, but I don't like > > the idea of running Citrix's code on my nice clean > machine with all > > open-source, community-vetted code. So, I was > thinking I'd set up a > > virtual machine and run the Citrix client in that. > Any recommendations > > for a easy-to-set-up virtual machine environment? > Thanks. > > VMWare is by far the easiest, but it breaks the > "open source, community > vetted code" rule. It is freely available but closed > source. > > Xen is the next option, but it can be a little > tricky and depending on > your distro could be hard to implement. It as well > is true > virtualization. > > You could use a chroot'ed environment. It's not > virtualization, but it > does segment the files. > > Still all this is a little far to go in order to run > a Citrix client. > Why not use rdesktop? Is there not an open source > ICA client? > -- > Register for the Ontario Linux Fest Conference > today! > A Linux conference for users by users. > http://onlinux.ca > -- > John Van Ostrand Net Direct > Inc. > CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. > Unit 12 > Waterloo, ON > N2L 5C6 > john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 866-883-1172 > x5102 > Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fax: > 519-883-8533 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com Get news delivered with the All new Yahoo! Mail. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. Start today at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 17:06:26 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:06:26 -0700 Subject: virtual machines In-Reply-To: <20070816140434.GA2823-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070816135849.GH3460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070816140434.GA2823@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0708161006n471ab75bnce5dd072289d88d2@mail.gmail.com> I've got a copy of VMWare server that was gratis. All I needed to do was supply my email (another alias, yay) to create a login and then get a valid serial key. The workstation download is still listed as "evaluation version" so that one is likely still not quite as free. I like John's suggestion of a chroot. As far as CPU power it's probably the most efficient, as you are not running a VM over top of your regular OS. The files would be happily segregated from your normal OS files as well, although the processes would still run in the same memory space. If you wanted to step a bit further than the chroot, but not quite as far as the VM, another option would be to use something like util-vserver. You need to make some patches to the kernel for this, and then create what's basically a changeroot, but the vserver would then be unware of anything happening in your base OS. I've had good luck with this. Last kernel I tried the patches with was a 2.6.21 series. Regards, Tyler Aviss On 8/16/07, Neil Watson wrote: > That seems like a lot of work. However, I think that Vmware workstation > si now free. > > -- > Neil Watson | Debian Linux > System Administrator | Uptime 4 days > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 19:09:07 2007 From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:09:07 -0400 Subject: virtual machines In-Reply-To: <20070816135849.GH3460-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070816135849.GH3460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070816150907.wot66vyvjvkkwco0@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> Personally, I'd go for VMware Server - the product is free (though actual support costs money), and you can get some handy packaged pre-built VMs for all sorts of tasks. Disclaimer: I work for VMWare in Tech Support, so I may be biased. Quoting William O'Higgins Witteman : > I need to use Citrix to log onto the network at work, but I don't like > the idea of running Citrix's code on my nice clean machine with all > open-source, community-vetted code. So, I was thinking I'd set up a > virtual machine and run the Citrix client in that. Any recommendations > for a easy-to-set-up virtual machine environment? Thanks. > -- > > yours, > > William > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 19:19:14 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:19:14 -0400 Subject: UserFriendly on SCO Message-ID: <46C4A332.2050100@rogers.com> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20070816 ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 20:11:13 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 16:11:13 -0400 Subject: virtual machines In-Reply-To: <20070816150907.wot66vyvjvkkwco0-lGUHJOqNqQhyLmsWvbx5QJQhnBGJm0FR@public.gmane.org> References: <20070816135849.GH3460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070816150907.wot66vyvjvkkwco0@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> Message-ID: <46C4AF61.7030708@ve3syb.ca> matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org wrote: > Disclaimer: I work for VMWare in Tech Support, so I may be biased. Does this mean you are the person to poke and complain to when VMWare doesn't work under Fedora Core 6 running the 2.6.22 kernel? See below if you (or someone else) cares to see the details. One of these days I'm going to read up on VMWare to find out if I can actually use it with an existing Windows partition without having to umount the partition. I have several Linux apps that access data stored in the Windows side of the machine (ie. Firefox bookmarks, Thunderbird e-mail). CC [M] /tmp/vmware-config1/vmmon-only/common/task.o cc1plus: warning: command line option "-Wdeclaration-after-statement" is valid for C/ObjC but not for C++ cc1plus: warning: command line option "-Wno-pointer-sign" is valid for C/ObjC but not for C++ cc1plus: warning: command line option "-Wstrict-prototypes" is valid for Ada/C/ObjC but not for C++ cc1plus: warning: command line option "-ffreestanding" is valid for C/ObjC but not for C++ include/asm/page.h: In function ?pte_t native_make_pte(long unsigned int)?: include/asm/page.h:112: error: expected primary-expression before ?)? token include/asm/page.h:112: error: expected ?;? before ?{? token include/asm/page.h:112: error: expected primary-expression before ?.? token include/asm/page.h:112: error: expected `;' before ?}? token make[2]: *** [/tmp/vmware-config1/vmmon-only/common/task.o] Error 1 make[1]: *** [_module_/tmp/vmware-config1/vmmon-only] Error 2 make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/kernels/2.6.22.1-32.fc6-i686' make: *** [vmmon.ko] Error 2 make: Leaving directory `/tmp/vmware-config1/vmmon-only' Unable to build the vmmon module. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 21:06:46 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:06:46 -0700 Subject: virtual machines In-Reply-To: <46C4AF61.7030708-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070816135849.GH3460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070816150907.wot66vyvjvkkwco0@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> <46C4AF61.7030708@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0708161406q4981c5cay76f2525249718df@mail.gmail.com> Ran into similar issues when using Debian/Etch. Have you tried the vmware any-any update: vmware-any-any-update113 On 8/16/07, Kevin Cozens wrote: > matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Disclaimer: I work for VMWare in Tech Support, so I may be biased. > > Does this mean you are the person to poke and complain to when VMWare doesn't > work under Fedora Core 6 running the 2.6.22 kernel? See below if you (or > someone else) cares to see the details. > > One of these days I'm going to read up on VMWare to find out if I can actually > use it with an existing Windows partition without having to umount the > partition. I have several Linux apps that access data stored in the Windows > side of the machine (ie. Firefox bookmarks, Thunderbird e-mail). > > > CC [M] /tmp/vmware-config1/vmmon-only/common/task.o > cc1plus: warning: command line option "-Wdeclaration-after-statement" is valid > for C/ObjC but not for C++ > cc1plus: warning: command line option "-Wno-pointer-sign" is valid for C/ObjC > but not for C++ > cc1plus: warning: command line option "-Wstrict-prototypes" is valid for > Ada/C/ObjC but not for C++ > cc1plus: warning: command line option "-ffreestanding" is valid for C/ObjC but > not for C++ > include/asm/page.h: In function 'pte_t native_make_pte(long unsigned int)': > include/asm/page.h:112: error: expected primary-expression before ')' token > include/asm/page.h:112: error: expected ';' before '{' token > include/asm/page.h:112: error: expected primary-expression before '.' token > include/asm/page.h:112: error: expected `;' before '}' token > make[2]: *** [/tmp/vmware-config1/vmmon-only/common/task.o] Error 1 > make[1]: *** [_module_/tmp/vmware-config1/vmmon-only] Error 2 > make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/kernels/2.6.22.1-32.fc6-i686' > make: *** [vmmon.ko] Error 2 > make: Leaving directory `/tmp/vmware-config1/vmmon-only' > Unable to build the vmmon module. > > -- > Cheers! > > Kevin. > > http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" > Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: > | Try to assimilate the world!" > #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 21:44:41 2007 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 17:44:41 -0400 Subject: OT but Tech-related Question Message-ID: <40EAA9DE9015244685020EE950693D021279488688@VMBX102.ihostexchange.net> Had clients in rural east milton a couple years ago but they switched to world without wires (now terago) since they had trouble providing a reliable signal. Their customer service handled it well and they acknowledged the issues without a battle. One other in burlington who switched to their dsl when it was available and just recently went to cogeco business as they had too good a deal to turn down D -----Original Message----- From: "Dave Sullivan" To: "tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org" Sent: 15/08/07 7:38 PM Subject: [TLUG]: OT but Tech-related Question Hey All, I'm looking into switching Internet and TV service providers, and I've run across Look Communications, which provides DSL service and "Wireless TV" service. I'm just wondering, does anyone have any experience with this technology? For those who have never heard of it, they have a small frequency range in the 2.5GHz band that they use to broadcast digital TV signals from various broadcast points, which are connected by fibre to their distribution office. I'm not sure how reliable this service would be, or what the quality would be like. Can anyone provide any insight, or anecdotes about Look's services? They're very inexpensive and it sounds great. Thanks! -- Dave Sullivan dave-VvnUh7fPG/k7v45Mz1C67QC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org 647-235-0328 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 14:51:56 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 10:51:56 -0400 Subject: OT but Tech-related Question In-Reply-To: <200708151937.32744.demsullivan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200708151937.32744.demsullivan@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200708171051.57250.mervc@eol.ca> On Wednesday 15 August 2007 19:37, Dave Sullivan wrote: > Hey All, > > I'm looking into switching Internet and TV service providers, and I've run > across Look Communications, which provides DSL service and "Wireless TV" > service. > > I'm just wondering, does anyone have any experience with this technology? > For those who have never heard of it, they have a small frequency range in > the 2.5GHz band that they use to broadcast digital TV signals from various > broadcast points, which are connected by fibre to their distribution > office. > > I'm not sure how reliable this service would be, or what the quality would > be like. Can anyone provide any insight, or anecdotes about Look's > services? They're very inexpensive and it sounds great. > > Thanks! I am surprised that you didn't get more replies but I am pretty sure Look is in some stage of bankruptcy. There was a note in the paper recently, they couldn't find a buyer and who knows what the future holds. I friend worked in Customer Support and was let go many months ago. As far as I know they weren't accepting individuals, just business accounts a few months ago. Now maybe nothing. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Sid Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.7 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 16:19:38 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:19:38 -0400 Subject: virtual machines In-Reply-To: <46C4AF61.7030708-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070816135849.GH3460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070816150907.wot66vyvjvkkwco0@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> <46C4AF61.7030708@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990708170919o3c3f0b05ra5eb5cb17814e79a@mail.gmail.com> On 8/16/07, Kevin Cozens wrote: > One of these days I'm going to read up on VMWare to find out if I can actually > use it with an existing Windows partition without having to umount the > partition. I have several Linux apps that access data stored in the Windows > side of the machine (ie. Firefox bookmarks, Thunderbird e-mail). This used to not be possible. I did fair testing and learned that while the functionality was there and reported as there, there were notes hidden in documentation which say it's untested and unsupported. At the time when i was testing it would quietly obliterate your files. So.. this functionality might still not be supported. I wanted to do things this way so that I wouldn't have to bother installing fancy vmware connectivity software within that installation in order to transfer files back and forth. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 16:36:17 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:36:17 -0400 Subject: Anyone used the Canon iP3300 or the Canon iP1800 printers? Message-ID: <46C5CE81.9080100@ve3syb.ca> Greetings, all. I'm currently looking at which printers I can use as part of a project for a client. I'm looking mainly at ink jet printers. The catch is that I'm using an ARM based board running Linux and have very little free flash memory (< 12M) after installing the application, the Ghostscript 8.60 executable, and one font file. Based on information from the Linux Printing Database the Canon PIXMA iP3300 should work using the bjc800 driver. The Canon PIXMA iP1800 should also work under Linux but the Linux drivers from Canon are mainly for use with a CUPS based printing system. The application generates a Postscript file which is fed to Ghostscript which then talks to the printer over a USB port. Has anyone used either of these two printers? Is the iP1800 another printer that can be made to (partially?) work with the bjc800 driver? Only a single page will be output in black and white three to four times a day. It won't matter if the full features of the printer are not supported by an older, but compatible, driver. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From parrains.linux-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 16:50:58 2007 From: parrains.linux-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org (parrains.linux-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 18:50:58 +0200 Subject: Participez au projet parrains.linux Message-ID: <1187369458.46c5d1f26fb07@imp.free.fr> Bonjour, J'ai r?cemment cr?? ce site : http://parrains.linux.free.fr C'est un annuaire de Linuxien(ne)s se proposant d'aider en personne celles et ceux qui d?butent ou qui progressent dans l'utilisation d'un syst?me GNU/Linux. Ce site, initialement con?u pour la France seule, s'adresse d?sormais ? tous les Linuxiens francophones. Pour exister pleinement il a besoin d'une liste cons?quente de "Parrains et Marraines" de tous les pays francophones. J'esp?re que l'?quipe de GTALUG en fera partie. Par ailleurs, toute aide ou remarque sera la bienvenue pour faire ?voluer ce site (qui pr?sente encore s?rement quelques erreurs). Vous pouvez suivre et participer aux discussions suivantes : -sur le projet (le fond) : http://www.developpez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=372830 -sur le site (la forme): http://www.developpez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=373281 Merci, Thrystan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 16:55:00 2007 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:55:00 -0400 Subject: virtual machines In-Reply-To: <1e55af990708170919o3c3f0b05ra5eb5cb17814e79a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070816135849.GH3460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070816150907.wot66vyvjvkkwco0@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> <46C4AF61.7030708@ve3syb.ca> <1e55af990708170919o3c3f0b05ra5eb5cb17814e79a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <92ee967a0708170955t634b08b7h5f6805e2c985f1dc@mail.gmail.com> On 8/17/07, Sy Ali wrote: > On 8/16/07, Kevin Cozens wrote: > > One of these days I'm going to read up on VMWare to find out if I can actually > > use it with an existing Windows partition without having to umount the > > partition. I have several Linux apps that access data stored in the Windows > > side of the machine (ie. Firefox bookmarks, Thunderbird e-mail). > > This used to not be possible. I did fair testing and learned that > while the functionality was there and reported as there, there were > notes hidden in documentation which say it's untested and unsupported. > At the time when i was testing it would quietly obliterate your > files. > > So.. this functionality might still not be supported. > > I wanted to do things this way so that I wouldn't have to bother > installing fancy vmware connectivity software within that installation > in order to transfer files back and forth. You can always use the guest OS to share the folders on the "network" and mount them on your host Linux system. Then the guest OS will use its networking support to deal with locking open files on the guest partition and other dumb stuff. I assume by connectivity software, you mean that package in VMWare workstation (which is not free), which lets you share directories and stuff? -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 17:16:27 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 13:16:27 -0400 Subject: virtual machines In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0708170955t634b08b7h5f6805e2c985f1dc-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070816135849.GH3460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070816150907.wot66vyvjvkkwco0@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> <46C4AF61.7030708@ve3syb.ca> <1e55af990708170919o3c3f0b05ra5eb5cb17814e79a@mail.gmail.com> <92ee967a0708170955t634b08b7h5f6805e2c985f1dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990708171016p24f7a7b2vd0061e4ed29ce1c0@mail.gmail.com> On 8/17/07, Mike Kallies wrote: > You can always use the guest OS to share the folders on the "network" > and mount them on your host Linux system. Then the guest OS will use > its networking support to deal with locking open files on the guest > partition and other dumb stuff. I played with that.. but DOS networking is a bit of a hassle. =) > I assume by connectivity software, you mean that package in VMWare > workstation (which is not free), which lets you share directories and > stuff? Yes, that's it. I think there's a lesser or feature-limited free version isn't there? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 17:31:24 2007 From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 13:31:24 -0400 Subject: virtual machines In-Reply-To: <1e55af990708171016p24f7a7b2vd0061e4ed29ce1c0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070816135849.GH3460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070816150907.wot66vyvjvkkwco0@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> <46C4AF61.7030708@ve3syb.ca> <1e55af990708170919o3c3f0b05ra5eb5cb17814e79a@mail.gmail.com> <92ee967a0708170955t634b08b7h5f6805e2c985f1dc@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990708171016p24f7a7b2vd0061e4ed29ce1c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070817133124.t3okgdfl4e804cck@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> Ha ha, yes I suppose you can ask me questions, though I can't guarantee I'll have the answers - I support a different product, though I do have some training on Workstation and Server. Incidentally, as far as I'm aware, Fedora isn't supported under VMWare Server or Workstation - the rule of thumb is, if there's no corporate support available for a distro, it probably won't get on the official supported list. I'd recommend cruising the VMware forums though - some interesting results come out of there. The free app is VMWare Server; it's not really lesser or feature-limited, it's just a different type of app. For example, Workstation's snapshot system allows you to have a lot more branching, but you can't run Workstation as a service (i.e. auto-boot VMs when your host reboots). Server, on the other hand, is exactly that - a server. So the feature set is more oriented towards people who want to run a few servers from a single piece of hardware, but don't want to go whole-hog and get the enterprise server (ESX). As for the connectivity software, the only thing that I'm aware of that gets installed in the guest O/S is drivers; you can install the VMware Tools (regardless of whether you're using VMware Workstation or Server), but it's really more of an optimization package than a feature-adding type of thing. Both apps will also allow you to choose folders on your Host O/S to share to your Guest O/S. Quoting Sy Ali : > On 8/17/07, Mike Kallies wrote: >> You can always use the guest OS to share the folders on the "network" >> and mount them on your host Linux system. Then the guest OS will use >> its networking support to deal with locking open files on the guest >> partition and other dumb stuff. > > I played with that.. but DOS networking is a bit of a hassle. =) > > >> I assume by connectivity software, you mean that package in VMWare >> workstation (which is not free), which lets you share directories and >> stuff? > > Yes, that's it. > > I think there's a lesser or feature-limited free version isn't there? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 17:44:04 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 13:44:04 -0400 Subject: OT: Apple Takes a Step Back With iMovie =?UTF-8?B?4oCZMDggLSBQb2c=?= =?UTF-8?B?dWXigJlzIFBvc3RzIC0gVGVjaG5vbG9neSAtIE5ldyBZb3JrIFRpbWVzIEJsb2c=?= Message-ID: <46C5DE64.5050909@utoronto.ca> I think this article illustrates the perils of proprietary software companies. http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/17/apple-takes-a-step-back-with-imovie-08/index.html?ex=1345003200&en=2cb8abf4277cbac4&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 18:32:37 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:32:37 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card Message-ID: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Dose anyone know how the E-MU 1212 M PCI soundcard is under linux? I must admit I am just going to start some web searches for that information now. Time is of the essence ( I go back to TImmins tomorrow morning and I've found the card (used) at L&McQ). So forgive the hasty post as I need to make a quick decision... Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 18:41:33 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:41:33 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <20070817183237.1945.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org writes: > Dose anyone know how the E-MU 1212 M PCI soundcard is under linux? > > I must admit I am just going to start some web searches for that > information now. Alsa Matrix has this: E-MU 1212m CA0102, FPGA Details [PCI] [ANALOGio] [RCAio] [TOSio] [ADATio] Support arriving in 1.0.14 I'm assuming 1.0.14 meanns the version of Alsa. So, do I buy tthe card and the next thing I know Alsa 1.0.14 is out, I install it (whatever that process looks like) and everything is hunky dory? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 18:51:37 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:51:37 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <20070817184133.21437.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org writes: > chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org writes: > >> Dose anyone know how the E-MU 1212 M PCI soundcard is under linux? I found this at alsa-project bugtracker: The first version of the driver for 1212m and 1820m is now out there in kernel 2.6.19 or alsa-driver 1.0.14. Does this mean that if I either install alsa 1.0.14 or have linux with kernel 2.6.19 (which would have alsa 1.0.14) I should be okay (but not woth all features?)? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Alexander.Short-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 19:02:50 2007 From: Alexander.Short-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Alexander Short) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:02:50 -0400 Subject: OT but Tech-related Question Message-ID: Look has been in and out of bankruptcy for _years_ I used them in Milton where they are headquarted for TV and wireless internet (not 802.11) They were insanely cheap. I pay 130 for what I paid look $80. The tv was reliable but they at last check have no pvr or HD capabilities. The internet when up was very fast. 10 meg when this was quite unusual for residential internet. The problem was the service was junk. After laying out 400 in equipment I didn't keep the service even 6 months, went through 2-3 modems and one week which ended up being the last straw a tech had to be dispatched 4 days in a one week period. My wife drew the line since I need functioning internet and go a wee bit crazy when it doesn't. You may however find their dsl as reliable/unreliable as everyone elses dsl. Hth Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: owner-tlug at ss.org To: tlug at ss.org Sent: Fri Aug 17 10:51:56 2007 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT but Tech-related Question On Wednesday 15 August 2007 19:37, Dave Sullivan wrote: > Hey All, > > I'm looking into switching Internet and TV service providers, and I've run > across Look Communications, which provides DSL service and "Wireless TV" > service. > > I'm just wondering, does anyone have any experience with this technology? > For those who have never heard of it, they have a small frequency range in > the 2.5GHz band that they use to broadcast digital TV signals from various > broadcast points, which are connected by fibre to their distribution > office. > > I'm not sure how reliable this service would be, or what the quality would > be like. Can anyone provide any insight, or anecdotes about Look's > services? They're very inexpensive and it sounds great. > > Thanks! I am surprised that you didn't get more replies but I am pretty sure Look is in some stage of bankruptcy. There was a note in the paper recently, they couldn't find a buyer and who knows what the future holds. I friend worked in Customer Support and was let go many months ago. As far as I know they weren't accepting individuals, just business accounts a few months ago. Now maybe nothing. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Sid Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.7 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 19:30:59 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:30:59 -0400 Subject: OT but Tech-related Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070817193059.GA10400@watson-wilson.ca> It's to bad about about Look. Their wireless technology really is terrific. We left Look TV last year. The reception was always good and reliability was better than the Rogers connection we have now. However, the lack of a PVR made us finally leave Look. I'll miss them. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 6 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 21:45:52 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:45:52 -0400 Subject: Anyone used the Canon iP3300 or the Canon iP1800 printers? In-Reply-To: <46C5CE81.9080100-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <46C5CE81.9080100@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20070817214551.GR9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 17, 2007 at 12:36:17PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > I'm currently looking at which printers I can use as part of a project for > a client. I'm looking mainly at ink jet printers. The catch is that I'm > using an ARM based board running Linux and have very little free flash > memory (< 12M) after installing the application, the Ghostscript 8.60 > executable, and one font file. > > Based on information from the Linux Printing Database the Canon PIXMA > iP3300 should work using the bjc800 driver. The Canon PIXMA iP1800 should > also work under Linux but the Linux drivers from Canon are mainly for use > with a CUPS based printing system. > > The application generates a Postscript file which is fed to Ghostscript > which then talks to the printer over a USB port. Has anyone used either of > these two printers? Is the iP1800 another printer that can be made to > (partially?) work with the bjc800 driver? > > Only a single page will be output in black and white three to four times a > day. It won't matter if the full features of the printer are not supported > by an older, but compatible, driver. What kind of budget is available for it? Obviously the simplest solution is to get an actual postscript printer instead (will also be way faster that way). You can get nice colour laser printers from xerox that do postscript for about $500, and they cost way less to use than an inkjet, and you don't have to worry about cleaning cycles either. Anything that should be reliable with little maintenance has to avoid inkjets. The Xerox 6120/N can be had for $399 after rebate at the moment and has parallel, usb2 and 10/100 ethernet connections. As for drivers for inkjets, some unfortunately use binary blobs in some cases, which tends to make them x86 cpu only. Others do work with plain ghostscript or gutenprint, in which case the only issue is how much cpu load it will take to drive it. Oh and ghostscript and buddies take a LOT of ram to render a single page. I would actually be surprised if most arm based systems have enough ram and tmp space to run a postscript renderer. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 21:47:19 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:47:19 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <20070817185137.11735.qmail-oZic0ScuCLMGvIJkKQROuQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 17, 2007 at 02:51:37PM -0400, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > >>Dose anyone know how the E-MU 1212 M PCI soundcard is under linux? > > I found this at alsa-project bugtracker: > > The first version of the driver for 1212m and 1820m is now out there in > kernel 2.6.19 or alsa-driver 1.0.14. > > Does this mean that if I either install alsa 1.0.14 or have linux with > kernel 2.6.19 (which would have alsa 1.0.14) I should be okay (but not woth > all features?)? Probably isn't fully featured yet, but at least basic support ought to be there in a current kernel then. You could always ask the alsa mailing lists to be sure. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 21:49:27 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:49:27 -0400 Subject: virtual machines In-Reply-To: <20070816135849.GH3460-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070816135849.GH3460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070817214927.GT9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 16, 2007 at 09:58:49AM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I need to use Citrix to log onto the network at work, but I don't like > the idea of running Citrix's code on my nice clean machine with all > open-source, community-vetted code. So, I was thinking I'd set up a > virtual machine and run the Citrix client in that. Any recommendations > for a easy-to-set-up virtual machine environment? Thanks. Just convince people to spring for the X11 support for citrix. Then any X server can do an XDMCP connection and login to the citrix box. I used to do that years ago when I had a co-op job at Husky Injection Molding, since all their CAD people ran HP-UX boxes, and used a citrix server to run word and outlook and such from their HP box. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 22:01:00 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 22:01:00 +0000 Subject: Debian 14th - Many Belated Returns Message-ID: Yesterday was the 14th "birthday" for the Debian project: Worth noting; next year is the 15th, which is arguably a more significant anniversary deserving attention. The attention probably *doesn't* involve singing songs that might require paying royalties out ;-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 00:53:30 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 20:53:30 -0400 Subject: virtual machines In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0708161406q4981c5cay76f2525249718df-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070816135849.GH3460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070816150907.wot66vyvjvkkwco0@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> <46C4AF61.7030708@ve3syb.ca> <3a97ef0708161406q4981c5cay76f2525249718df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46C6430A.7010408@ve3syb.ca> Tyler Aviss wrote: > Have you tried the vmware any-any update: > > vmware-any-any-update113 Thanks. I checked the vmware web site and I had the most recent version installed. Using the information you mentioned I found messages in the forums from other people having the same problem as myself. Found a link to the patch file on a machine in .cz land. It compiles now (with one file spitting out a ton of warning messages). No more complaints on system startup. I even registered for a serial number. All that is left to do now is figure out if its useful for anything (for me at least). :-) -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 00:58:17 2007 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 20:58:17 -0400 Subject: Debian 14th - Many Belated Returns In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46C64429.4000900@golden.net> Christopher Browne wrote: > Yesterday was the 14th "birthday" for the Debian project: > > > Worth noting; next year is the 15th, which is arguably a more > significant anniversary deserving attention. > > The attention probably *doesn't* involve singing songs that might > require paying royalties out ;-). > > rofl :-P -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 14:53:46 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 10:53:46 -0400 Subject: Is the LinuxCaffe Web Site Down? Message-ID: <46C707FA.4030708@utoronto.ca> See Subject Line. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 15:32:38 2007 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 11:32:38 -0400 Subject: Is the LinuxCaffe Web Site Down? In-Reply-To: <46C707FA.4030708-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <46C707FA.4030708@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <46C71116.5010507@primus.ca> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Is the LinuxCaffe Web Site Down? Yes, it is. At least, I can't connect either. Maybe David has gone across the road to have a picnic in Bickford Park. Which reminds me... picnic? No mention here in a long time or did I miss something? . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 16:02:21 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:02:21 -0400 Subject: Is the LinuxCaffe Web Site Down? In-Reply-To: <46C71116.5010507-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <46C707FA.4030708@utoronto.ca> <46C71116.5010507@primus.ca> Message-ID: <46C7180D.2090403@utoronto.ca> George Nicol wrote: > Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > >> Is the LinuxCaffe Web Site Down? > > Yes, it is. At least, I can't connect either. Maybe David has gone > across the road to have a picnic in Bickford Park. Which reminds me... > > picnic? > > No mention here in a long time or did I miss something? Yes, Today is the Linux in the Park event. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 17:12:24 2007 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 13:12:24 -0400 Subject: Can I Write to a USB Drive Message-ID: <46C72878.5020702@rogers.com> I am using Ubuntu My USB hard drive is seen as read only. Is there a way write to it? If so, how. Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 17:20:26 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 13:20:26 -0400 Subject: Is the LinuxCaffe Web Site Down? In-Reply-To: <46C707FA.4030708-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <46C707FA.4030708@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <46C72A5A.8080907@utoronto.ca> Not any more. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 17:22:14 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 13:22:14 -0400 Subject: Is the LinuxCaffe Web Site Down? In-Reply-To: <46C7180D.2090403-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <46C707FA.4030708@utoronto.ca> <46C71116.5010507@primus.ca> <46C7180D.2090403@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <46C72AC6.1010801@utoronto.ca> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > George Nicol wrote: > >> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: >> >>> Is the LinuxCaffe Web Site Down? >> >> Yes, it is. At least, I can't connect either. Maybe David has gone >> across the road to have a picnic in Bickford Park. Which reminds me... >> >> picnic? >> >> No mention here in a long time or did I miss something? > > Yes, Today is the Linux in the Park event. Correction, Tomorrow July 19 is the Linux in the Park event. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 17:49:18 2007 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 13:49:18 -0400 Subject: Can I Write to a USB Drive In-Reply-To: <46C72878.5020702-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46C72878.5020702@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070818174918.GA7186@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Aug 18, 2007 at 01:12:24PM -0400, Stephen wrote: > I am using Ubuntu > > My USB hard drive is seen as read only. Is there a way write to it? > > If so, how. mount -w ... mount -o rw ... -- William Park , Toronto, Canada BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 21:19:15 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 17:19:15 -0400 Subject: Is the LinuxCaffe Web Site Down? In-Reply-To: <46C71116.5010507-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <46C707FA.4030708@utoronto.ca> <46C71116.5010507@primus.ca> Message-ID: <46C76253.6080604@rogers.com> George Nicol wrote: > Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > >> Is the LinuxCaffe Web Site Down? > > Yes, it is. At least, I can't connect either. Maybe David has gone > across the road to have a picnic in Bickford Park. Either that, or he's gone to Tim's for a coffee. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 21:21:04 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 17:21:04 -0400 Subject: Can I Write to a USB Drive In-Reply-To: <46C72878.5020702-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46C72878.5020702@rogers.com> Message-ID: <46C762C0.4020900@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > I am using Ubuntu > > My USB hard drive is seen as read only. Is there a way write to it? > What format is it? In SUSE, FAT partitions are mounted read & write, but NTFS are normally read only. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 21:50:43 2007 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 17:50:43 -0400 Subject: Can I Write to a USB Drive In-Reply-To: <46C762C0.4020900-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46C72878.5020702@rogers.com> <46C762C0.4020900@rogers.com> Message-ID: <46C769B3.4080101@rogers.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 21:52:32 2007 From: myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 17:52:32 -0400 Subject: Is the LinuxCaffe Web Site Down? In-Reply-To: <46C707FA.4030708-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <46C707FA.4030708@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <958E61C6-AD30-4254-B13B-CE6EAFABC90E@monkeyinyoursoul.com> It has been down since 6 to about 12:45 because of server traffic. --- Myles A. Braithwaite Monkey in your Soul - http://miys.net myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org On 18-Aug-07, at 10:53 AM, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > See Subject Line. > > Ivan. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2435 bytes Desc: not available URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 21:52:47 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 17:52:47 -0400 Subject: Is the LinuxCaffe Web Site Down? In-Reply-To: <46C72AC6.1010801-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <46C707FA.4030708@utoronto.ca> <46C71116.5010507@primus.ca> <46C7180D.2090403@utoronto.ca> <46C72AC6.1010801@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <46C76A2F.8000808@rogers.com> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Ivan Avery Frey wrote: >> George Nicol wrote: >> >>> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: >>> >>>> Is the LinuxCaffe Web Site Down? >>> >>> Yes, it is. At least, I can't connect either. Maybe David has gone >>> across the road to have a picnic in Bickford Park. Which reminds me... >>> >>> picnic? >>> >>> No mention here in a long time or did I miss something? >> >> Yes, Today is the Linux in the Park event. > > Correction, Tomorrow July 19 is the Linux in the Park event. July 19??? I'd better hurry. That was last month!!! ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 23:50:28 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 19:50:28 -0400 Subject: Is the LinuxCaffe Web Site Down? In-Reply-To: <46C76A2F.8000808-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46C707FA.4030708@utoronto.ca> <46C71116.5010507@primus.ca> <46C7180D.2090403@utoronto.ca> <46C72AC6.1010801@utoronto.ca> <46C76A2F.8000808@rogers.com> Message-ID: <46C785C4.4080804@utoronto.ca> James Knott wrote: > Ivan Avery Frey wrote: >> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: >>> George Nicol wrote: >>> >>>> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: >>>> >>>>> Is the LinuxCaffe Web Site Down? >>>> Yes, it is. At least, I can't connect either. Maybe David has gone >>>> across the road to have a picnic in Bickford Park. Which reminds me... >>>> >>>> picnic? >>>> >>>> No mention here in a long time or did I miss something? >>> Yes, Today is the Linux in the Park event. >> Correction, Tomorrow July 19 is the Linux in the Park event. > > July 19??? I'd better hurry. That was last month!!! ;-) Yup, my bad, Aug. 19th. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 19 20:00:57 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:00:57 -0400 Subject: cat 5 & electrical In-Reply-To: <1186855496.8677.6.camel@ubuntu> References: <46BCD19B.9050309@chrisaitken.net> <46BCD8F4.8020309@rogers.com> <46BD164B.9060400@chrisaitken.net> <1186855496.8677.6.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: <46C8A179.2030000@chrisaitken.net> Kareem Shehata wrote: >On Fri, 2007-08-10 at 21:52 -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > > >>Thanks. We're getting an electrician to inspect it and he wants to see >>separate holes minimum six inches apart - so we're going with that. >> >> >> > >Yup, that's a standard electrical practise, and it might actually be set >out in the electrical code. Not required for this particular case, but >a general requirement for building wiring to keep communication and >power wiring separate. > > Also, should it really matter to me whether the cable is cat 5 or cat 5e? I have one of each in the wall. If it's really going to make any discernable difference then now is the time I should replace it (we're drywalling tomorrow). Chris >-kms > > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 19 17:38:17 2007 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 17:38:17 Subject: CSF/Papyrus Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20070819173817.6267687a@mail.look.ca> Has anyone heard of CSF/Papyrus, or CSF, or Papyrus ? What do you know of it or them ? James ('Jim') E. McIntosh 416-292-8126 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 04:09:27 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 00:09:27 -0400 Subject: Anyone used the Canon iP3300 or the Canon iP1800 printers? In-Reply-To: <20070817214551.GR9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <46C5CE81.9080100@ve3syb.ca> <20070817214551.GR9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <46C913F7.2010401@ve3syb.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > What kind of budget is available for it? Obviously the simplest > solution is to get an actual postscript printer instead (will also be > way faster that way). You can get nice colour laser printers from Postscript printers would work but are way more costly than other laser printers that could be used. Not to mention they would be complete overkill for the few pages that need to be printed each day. The pages being printed are in black and white only at the moment. > Anything that should be reliable with little maintenance has to > avoid inkjets. If they print a few pages each day there shouldn't be too much in terms of maintenance to worry about. > As for drivers for inkjets, some unfortunately use binary blobs Yes, I've seen that situation with a few of the Canon inkjet printers. > Oh and ghostscript and buddies take a LOT of ram to render a single > page. I would actually be surprised if most arm based systems have > enough ram and tmp space to run a postscript renderer. The CPU board has 32Meg of SRAM with a bit more than half free with the application and Ghostscsript running. Initial tests show it is only taking about 10Meg of memory to print a page at 300 dpi which still leaves a few Meg of RAM to spare. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 04:32:51 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 00:32:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: cat 5 & electrical In-Reply-To: <46C8A179.2030000-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <46BCD19B.9050309@chrisaitken.net> <46BCD8F4.8020309@rogers.com> <46BD164B.9060400@chrisaitken.net> <1186855496.8677.6.camel@ubuntu> <46C8A179.2030000@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: | From: Chris Aitken | Also, should it really matter to me whether the cable is cat 5 or cat 5e? I | have one of each in the wall. If it's really going to make any discernable | difference then now is the time I should replace it (we're drywalling | tomorrow). I would think that putting in Cat 6 would make the most sense because that is the most modern standard that you can conform to. Eventually, all ethernet NICs will be 1G (or better). Might as well support it now. You don't really want to reopen the wall. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 07:23:43 2007 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 03:23:43 -0400 Subject: cat 5 & electrical In-Reply-To: References: <46BCD19B.9050309@chrisaitken.net> <46BCD8F4.8020309@rogers.com> <46BD164B.9060400@chrisaitken.net> <1186855496.8677.6.camel@ubuntu> <46C8A179.2030000@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <46C9417F.2050501@golden.net> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Chris Aitken > > | Also, should it really matter to me whether the cable is cat 5 or cat 5e? I > | have one of each in the wall. If it's really going to make any discernable > | difference then now is the time I should replace it (we're drywalling > | tomorrow). > > I would think that putting in Cat 6 would make the most sense because > that is the most modern standard that you can conform to. Eventually, > all ethernet NICs will be 1G (or better). Might as well support it > now. You don't really want to reopen the wall. > -- > Or even better run a conduit. Upgrade as needed. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 13:27:56 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 09:27:56 -0400 Subject: Can I Write to a USB Drive In-Reply-To: <46C72878.5020702-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46C72878.5020702@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070820132756.GU9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Aug 18, 2007 at 01:12:24PM -0400, Stephen wrote: > I am using Ubuntu > > My USB hard drive is seen as read only. Is there a way write to it? > > If so, how. If you are not root, you probably just don't have permission to do writes. A fmask/dmask option if using fat32 should help when mounting, or the regular permissions if it is ext2/3 or similar. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 13:31:26 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 09:31:26 -0400 Subject: cat 5 & electrical In-Reply-To: <46C8A179.2030000-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <46BCD19B.9050309@chrisaitken.net> <46BCD8F4.8020309@rogers.com> <46BD164B.9060400@chrisaitken.net> <1186855496.8677.6.camel@ubuntu> <46C8A179.2030000@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20070820133126.GV9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Aug 19, 2007 at 04:00:57PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > Also, should it really matter to me whether the cable is cat 5 or cat > 5e? I have one of each in the wall. If it's really going to make any > discernable difference then now is the time I should replace it (we're > drywalling tomorrow). Gigabit Ethernet (which is becoming standard on most systems, and switches are getting cheap) probably won't work (or at least not reliably) using cat 5. Cat 5e is good enough for Gigabit Ethernet. A coworker also recently noticed some cat5 cable he had bought had a strange feature. The two pairs of wires used for 10/100Mbit Ethernet were the expected resistance, while the other two pairs were much lower grade wire with double the resistance. It seems whoever made the cable went cheap on the wires most people don't use anyhow. Of course Gigabit Ethernet uses all 4 pairs, so suddenly such tricks would matter. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 13:35:26 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 09:35:26 -0400 Subject: Anyone used the Canon iP3300 or the Canon iP1800 printers? In-Reply-To: <46C913F7.2010401-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <46C5CE81.9080100@ve3syb.ca> <20070817214551.GR9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46C913F7.2010401@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20070820133526.GW9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 20, 2007 at 12:09:27AM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Postscript printers would work but are way more costly than other laser > printers that could be used. Not to mention they would be complete overkill > for the few pages that need to be printed each day. The pages being printed > are in black and white only at the moment. You are telling me a $400 cdn colour laser with postscript is too expensive to use? And being black and white now doesn't mean you don't decide there is a use for colour later. And besides if you don't use colour it doesn't cost anything extra to have a colour printer, you just won't be using any colour ink. :) I guess it depends how much the whole system costs, what the purpose is, etc. > If they print a few pages each day there shouldn't be too much in terms of > maintenance to worry about. An inkjet can have an annoying tendancy to need to be cleaned right when you want to use it, and then you have to reprint your pages, hope the cleaning went well, otherwise clean again, reprint, repeat. An inkjet that prints a lot is not a problem. It is an inkjet that doesn't do much that causes problems. > Yes, I've seen that situation with a few of the Canon inkjet printers. Well binary blobs mean essentially unsupported printer under linux. > The CPU board has 32Meg of SRAM with a bit more than half free with the > application and Ghostscsript running. Initial tests show it is only taking > about 10Meg of memory to print a page at 300 dpi which still leaves a few > Meg of RAM to spare. Still seems close. And of course depends on the complexity of the postscript being printed. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 13:37:16 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 09:37:16 -0400 Subject: virtual machines In-Reply-To: <46C6430A.7010408-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070816135849.GH3460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070816150907.wot66vyvjvkkwco0@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> <46C4AF61.7030708@ve3syb.ca> <3a97ef0708161406q4981c5cay76f2525249718df@mail.gmail.com> <46C6430A.7010408@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20070820133716.GX9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 17, 2007 at 08:53:30PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Thanks. I checked the vmware web site and I had the most recent version > installed. Using the information you mentioned I found messages in the > forums > from other people having the same problem as myself. Found a link to the > patch > file on a machine in .cz land. > > It compiles now (with one file spitting out a ton of warning messages). No > more complaints on system startup. I even registered for a serial number. > All that is left to do now is figure out if its useful for anything (for me > at least). :-) The vmware-any-any-update* patches don't seem to come from vmware, but rather a community of people who fix up the kernel drivers for vmware to deal with kernel changes. Often worth grabbing if you have compile problems. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 13:39:44 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 09:39:44 -0400 Subject: virtual machines In-Reply-To: <1e55af990708170919o3c3f0b05ra5eb5cb17814e79a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070816135849.GH3460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070816150907.wot66vyvjvkkwco0@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> <46C4AF61.7030708@ve3syb.ca> <1e55af990708170919o3c3f0b05ra5eb5cb17814e79a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070820133944.GY9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 17, 2007 at 12:19:38PM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > This used to not be possible. I did fair testing and learned that > while the functionality was there and reported as there, there were > notes hidden in documentation which say it's untested and unsupported. > At the time when i was testing it would quietly obliterate your > files. > > So.. this functionality might still not be supported. > > I wanted to do things this way so that I wouldn't have to bother > installing fancy vmware connectivity software within that installation > in order to transfer files back and forth. With caching and locking and such to worry about, how would a filesystem deal with two OSs trying to read and write the same filesystem at the same time? Unless the filesystem was designed specifically to allow simultanious access, then it won't work. Not something VMware can do anything to solve. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 21 03:22:59 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:22:59 -0400 Subject: xfce Message-ID: <1e55af990708202022q395bad23jaf3a7ed2df15cebe@mail.gmail.com> I just want to say that my experiences with xfce has been some of the best I've ever had on Linux. The mostly-intelligent GUI installer, all the applications. Most of the defaults are somewhat sane, and can at least be reconfigured to actually be sane. Each little application has been nice and simple, and I've been quite impressed. Since blackbox seems to be dead (the mailing list is only for spammers, and sean's email addresses all bounce) I've been exploring other avenues just to see what's out there. The xfce suite all seems quite nice. I just have to figure out how the heck I got kde tray icons working when I was using xfwm instead of blackbox. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 21 03:26:07 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:26:07 -0400 Subject: virtual machines In-Reply-To: <20070820133944.GY9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070816135849.GH3460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070816150907.wot66vyvjvkkwco0@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> <46C4AF61.7030708@ve3syb.ca> <1e55af990708170919o3c3f0b05ra5eb5cb17814e79a@mail.gmail.com> <20070820133944.GY9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990708202026w7c16b01bhc86a3c4b0166d62e@mail.gmail.com> On 8/20/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > With caching and locking and such to worry about, how would a > filesystem deal with two OSs trying to read and write the same > filesystem at the same time? Unless the filesystem was designed > specifically to allow simultanious access, then it won't work. > > Not something VMware can do anything to solve. Aah yes.. this makes sense. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 21 03:33:44 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 03:33:44 +0000 Subject: virtual machines In-Reply-To: <20070820133944.GY9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070816135849.GH3460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070816150907.wot66vyvjvkkwco0@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> <46C4AF61.7030708@ve3syb.ca> <1e55af990708170919o3c3f0b05ra5eb5cb17814e79a@mail.gmail.com> <20070820133944.GY9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0708202033p438f54d4va53a290a69ff3b12@mail.gmail.com> Perhaps using a COW filesystem and individual COW-files per each session? I haven't noticed VMWare supporting COW's, but Qemu does... albeit not for this purpose (though you could create two qcow's and then have different sessions with them). On 8/20/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 17, 2007 at 12:19:38PM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > > This used to not be possible. I did fair testing and learned that > > while the functionality was there and reported as there, there were > > notes hidden in documentation which say it's untested and unsupported. > > At the time when i was testing it would quietly obliterate your > > files. > > > > So.. this functionality might still not be supported. > > > > I wanted to do things this way so that I wouldn't have to bother > > installing fancy vmware connectivity software within that installation > > in order to transfer files back and forth. > > With caching and locking and such to worry about, how would a > filesystem deal with two OSs trying to read and write the same > filesystem at the same time? Unless the filesystem was designed > specifically to allow simultanious access, then it won't work. > > Not something VMware can do anything to solve. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 21 05:39:48 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 01:39:48 -0400 Subject: xfce In-Reply-To: <1e55af990708202022q395bad23jaf3a7ed2df15cebe-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990708202022q395bad23jaf3a7ed2df15cebe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070821013948.658fa8cc@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Sy Ali left a post-it on the fridge: > I just want to say that my experiences with xfce has been some of the > best I've ever had on Linux. The mostly-intelligent GUI installer, > all the applications. Most of the defaults are somewhat sane, and can > at least be reconfigured to actually be sane. > > Each little application has been nice and simple, and I've been quite > impressed. > > Since blackbox seems to be dead (the mailing list is only for > spammers, and sean's email addresses all bounce) I've been exploring > other avenues just to see what's out there. The xfce suite all seems > quite nice. It is incredible how many useful tools there are in a desktop that is considered light, no? And all the plugins for the panel and Thunar...sweet :-) > I just have to figure out how the heck I got kde tray icons working > when I was using xfwm instead of blackbox. Anything that loads a tray icon should show in the xfce panel with the systray plugin, though I don't use any KDE stuff. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Fry: You gotta help me, Bender. How can I prove I'm human? Bender: You could drop dead. That'd show 'em. Fry: I don't wanna. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 21 10:36:16 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 06:36:16 -0400 Subject: xfce In-Reply-To: <20070821013948.658fa8cc-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990708202022q395bad23jaf3a7ed2df15cebe@mail.gmail.com> <20070821013948.658fa8cc@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990708210336o29338e7ar932c8af29ec1a240@mail.gmail.com> On 8/21/07, JoeHill wrote: > Anything that loads a tray icon should show in the xfce panel with the systray > plugin, though I don't use any KDE stuff. Yeah, anything should. Except this hasn't been true for any combination of window manager or tray since blackbox + fbpanel. (not fluxbox + fbpanel, etc etc) I did get it working *once* for xfwm and fbpanel, and xfwm and xfce-panel.. but I wasn't able to reproduce it. I'll try harder, later. The only reason I care about a tray at all is because of kgpg. The other pgp helpers are totally useless to me. Maybe I could script a little helper and be done with it.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 21 16:29:57 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:29:57 +0000 Subject: xfce In-Reply-To: <20070821013948.658fa8cc-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990708202022q395bad23jaf3a7ed2df15cebe@mail.gmail.com> <20070821013948.658fa8cc@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: On 8/21/07, JoeHill wrote: > It is incredible how many useful tools there are in a desktop that is > considered light, no? And all the plugins for the panel and Thunar...sweet :-) I'm confused as to why anyone considers it "light," when it's nothing of the kind. - Installing xfce4 draws in 51MB of packages - Do you know how many libraries xfdesktop4 depends on??? 52. - Yes, Thunar is *slightly* less bloated than Nautilus; it consumes only 60MB of RAM, rather than Nautilus' 78MB. Compare with, for instance, GNUstep's "mere" 48MB of RAM consumption for its "GWorkspace" file manager. - xfce-panel has about half the RSS (16MB) of gnome-panel (28MB), until it spawns its "plugin" process, adding another 14MB, and bringing it out "heavier" than gnome-panel. In what way is this supposed to be "light" other than possibly in the (worthless) sense of "sometimes, but by no means always, very slightly less bloated than similar GNOME or KDE applications" ? "Light" should mean "considerably less weighty than alternatives." And if GNOME and KDE are to be considered "bloated" (which seems pretty reasonable to me), they are NOT meaningful comparison points, unless you can demonstrate at least order-of-magnitude differences in weight (with a base of at least 2, but preferably evaluating based on decimal orders of magnitude). Based on any of the evaluations I have seen, XFCE is a bloated, heavyweight "desktop" system that people falsely claim to be "lighter" than GNOME and KDE. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 21 17:29:00 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:29:00 -0400 Subject: xfce In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990708202022q395bad23jaf3a7ed2df15cebe@mail.gmail.com> <20070821013948.658fa8cc@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <46CB20DC.3080107@utoronto.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: ..... snip ....... > Based on any of the evaluations I have seen, XFCE is a bloated, > heavyweight "desktop" system that people falsely claim to be "lighter" > than GNOME and KDE. I suspect that earlier versions of XFCE were "lighter" than Gnome or KDE. My suspicions could be wrong however. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 21 18:01:00 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:01:00 -0400 Subject: xfce In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990708202022q395bad23jaf3a7ed2df15cebe@mail.gmail.com> <20070821013948.658fa8cc@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990708211101h6cf8312k1a2bfdb48f23def4@mail.gmail.com> On 8/21/07, Christopher Browne wrote: > I'm confused as to why anyone considers it "light," when it's nothing > of the kind. It's apps all run faster than KDE's equivalents, that's for sure. Maybe if I dig out my p266 I'd notice a more significant difference. I've got some notes on doing memory and speed testing which I'd love to get into but I haven't the time these days. > "Light" should mean "considerably less weighty than alternatives." "alternatives" has been the issue with me. Most alternatives have been complete shite. For the base features I'm seeing with the xfce apps I'm getting a nice simple design and much more responsive programs compared to what I'm used to. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 21 18:16:05 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:16:05 -0400 Subject: virtual machines In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0708202033p438f54d4va53a290a69ff3b12-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070816135849.GH3460@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20070816150907.wot66vyvjvkkwco0@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> <46C4AF61.7030708@ve3syb.ca> <1e55af990708170919o3c3f0b05ra5eb5cb17814e79a@mail.gmail.com> <20070820133944.GY9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0708202033p438f54d4va53a290a69ff3b12@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070821181605.GZ9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 21, 2007 at 03:33:44AM +0000, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Perhaps using a COW filesystem and individual COW-files per each > session? I haven't noticed VMWare supporting COW's, but Qemu does... > albeit not for this purpose (though you could create two qcow's and > then have different sessions with them). But that doesn't give shared access, just multiple copies of the same filesystem. You can't treat it like a network drive. If you want a shared network drive, use NFS or Samba or similar. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 21 22:25:02 2007 From: drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Maryann Haley) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:25:02 -0500 Subject: Your Zol0ft 0rder #5221446 Message-ID: Hi, We have cheapest Cial1s S0ft T4bs and V1agra S0ft T4bs online. Visit US He4lthc4re Inc. at: http://www.nadaskee.com/ If you want to be excluded from th1s ma1ling http://www.nadaskee.com/m0veme/ We will process your request in 48hr's -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kmastin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 00:15:29 2007 From: kmastin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (KEITH MASTIN) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 20:15:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: apt sources.list syntax Message-ID: <561126.44746.qm@web88307.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Hey all; Just recently installed my first debian distro (4.0), and I can't quite get the sources.list syntax down so that apt-get update doesn't barf. I've read the mans, checked the bible (v. 3.1) and looked through about as much of the debian mailing list archives as I could before going totally brain-dead, and well, I'm still scratching my head over this and hoping someone out there could shed some light on the situation for me. Here's my sources.list: quote # # deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 r0 _Etch_ - Official i386 NETINST Binary-1 20070407-11:29]/ etch contrib main deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 r0 _Etch_ - Official i386 NETINST Binary-1 20070407-11:29]/ etch contrib main deb http://debian.yorku.ca/debian/ etch main deb-src http://debian.yorku.ca/debian/ etch main deb http://security.debian.org/ etch/updates main contrib deb-src http://security.debian.org/ etch/updates main contrib deb http://packages.debian.org/unstable/libs/ unquote The last line is the one I'm trying to add by hand., to get some sun-java jre and jdk thingys from http://packages.debian.org/unstable/libs/ The last few lines of output after running apt-get update: quote Ign http://packages.debian.org etch/unstable Packages Err http://packages.debian.org etch/unstable Packages 404 Not Found Fetched 2B in 1s (2B/s) Failed to fetch http://packages.debian.org/dists/etch/unstable/binary-i386/Packages.gz 404 Not Found Reading package lists... Done W: Couldn't stat source package list http://packages.debian.org etch/unstable Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/packages.debian.org_dists_etch_unstable_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory) W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems E: Some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead. unquote I see that apt-get update read http://packages.debian.org/unstable/libs/ as http://packages.debian.org etch/unstable, which is incorrect. It's gotta be a brain fart on my part in decyphering the mans ( the only source of readable info I've found on this). Here's the relevant section of man sources.list: The format for a sources.list entry using the deb and deb-src types are: quote deb uri distribution [component1] [component2] [...] The URI for the deb type must specify the base of the Debian distribution, from which APT will find the information it needs. distribution can specify an exact path, in which case the components must be omitted and distribution must end with a slash (/). This is useful for when only a particular sub-section of the archive denoted by the URI is of interest. If distribution does not specify an exact path, at least one component must be present. unquote Using that info, the line I've added at the end of sources.list looks to be correct, I get essentially the same results when I change the last line to: quote deb http://packages.debian.org/debian unstable contrib unquote If someone could shed some light on this or lead me in the right direction, I would be eternally grateful. TIA Kind regards, Keith Mastin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kmastin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 01:57:53 2007 From: kmastin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (KEITH MASTIN) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 21:57:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: apt sources.list syntax In-Reply-To: <561126.44746.qm-bQ1vtEImh6aB9c0Qi4KiSg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <561126.44746.qm@web88307.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <32021.67739.qm@web88306.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I found the answer in apt Pinning. Swapped the last line for this: #Debian Unstable deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian etch main contrib non-free This works now. 10X KEITH MASTIN wrote: Hey all; .... If someone could shed some light on this or lead me in the right direction, I would be eternally grateful. TIA Kind regards, Keith Mastin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 13:55:54 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:55:54 -0400 Subject: apt sources.list syntax In-Reply-To: <561126.44746.qm-bQ1vtEImh6aB9c0Qi4KiSg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <561126.44746.qm@web88307.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070822135554.GA9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 21, 2007 at 08:15:29PM -0400, KEITH MASTIN wrote: > Hey all; > Just recently installed my first debian distro (4.0), and I can't quite get the sources.list syntax down so that apt-get update doesn't barf. > > I've read the mans, checked the bible (v. 3.1) and looked through about as much of the debian mailing list archives as I could before going totally brain-dead, and well, I'm still scratching my head over this and hoping someone out there could shed some light on the situation for me. > > Here's my sources.list: > quote > # > # deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 r0 _Etch_ - Official i386 NETINST Binary-1 20070407-11:29]/ etch contrib main > > deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 r0 _Etch_ - Official i386 NETINST Binary-1 20070407-11:29]/ etch contrib main > > deb http://debian.yorku.ca/debian/ etch main > deb-src http://debian.yorku.ca/debian/ etch main > > deb http://security.debian.org/ etch/updates main contrib > deb-src http://security.debian.org/ etch/updates main contrib > > deb http://packages.debian.org/unstable/libs/ > unquote > > The last line is the one I'm trying to add by hand., to get some sun-java jre and jdk thingys from http://packages.debian.org/unstable/libs/ > > The last few lines of output after running apt-get update: > > quote > Ign http://packages.debian.org etch/unstable Packages > Err http://packages.debian.org etch/unstable Packages > 404 Not Found > Fetched 2B in 1s (2B/s) > Failed to fetch http://packages.debian.org/dists/etch/unstable/binary-i386/Packages.gz 404 Not Found packages.debian.org is NOT a package archive. You can't use that as a package source. If you want some parts of unstable, you have to add something like: deb http://debian.yorku.ca/debian/ unstable main Then since that will make it upgrade the whole system to unstable, you add something like: /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01default: APT::Default-Release "stable"; You can then upgrade normally since it will prefer things from stable. If you want a package from unstable you can do: apt-get install packagename/unstable It will then tag that package to come from unstable and keep upgrading it from unstable. You can also do: apt-get -t unstable install packagename That will install the package and all dependancies from unstable and tag them all as such to continue upgrading those from unstable. Mixing and matching often doesn't work though, and may in fact already be imposible between etch and testing/unstable due to the major change in libc version, and if you upgrade libc on stable then you are very much not running stable anymore and would be better off moving to testing entirely. Of course if all you want is java stuff you should be able to install sun's java packages directly from the debian archive. You just have to add 'contrib non-free' after 'main' to your original deb line. Java isn't "free" so it goes in "non-free" which you have to tell it you want to use. Then you can install sun-java5-jre or sun-java5-jdk, etc. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 13:57:44 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:57:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rogers/Yahoo @#$% Message-ID: <225205.49001.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Roger-Yahoo webmail system appears to have dropped all support for Linux based browsers (OUCH!!!). My attempts to login this morning just got me error messages about how my browser was not supported (they do support FireFox BUT only on Mac & PC). Rogers phone support was useless (they point the finger at Yahoo). Temp. solution is to goto the www.yahoo.com site, login there which at least for now works... I tried Konquerer's change browser ID function but that doesn't get past the your web browser is not supported message. Anyone got a better solution? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 14:14:18 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:14:18 -0400 Subject: Rogers/Yahoo @#$% In-Reply-To: <225205.49001.qm-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <225205.49001.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46CC44BA.1060104@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > Roger-Yahoo webmail system appears to have dropped all > support for Linux based browsers (OUCH!!!). My > attempts to login this morning just got me error > messages about how my browser was not supported (they > do support FireFox BUT only on Mac & PC). Rogers phone > support was useless (they point the finger at Yahoo). > > Temp. solution is to goto the www.yahoo.com site, > login there which at least for now works... > > I tried Konquerer's change browser ID function but > that doesn't get past the your web browser is not > supported message. Anyone got a better solution? > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > I can get to it using Firefox. What sort of problem are you having? -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 13:57:09 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:57:09 -0400 Subject: apt sources.list syntax In-Reply-To: <32021.67739.qm-E1eVPpLDIxaB9c0Qi4KiSg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <561126.44746.qm@web88307.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <32021.67739.qm@web88306.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070822135709.GB9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 21, 2007 at 09:57:53PM -0400, KEITH MASTIN wrote: > I found the answer in apt Pinning. Swapped the last line for this: > > #Debian Unstable > deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian etch main contrib non-free Why a comment saying unstable for a line saying etch (= stable). And yes since java is in non-free, adding that helps. Might as well just add the 'contrib non-free' to your first line from yorku instead, and drop the last line entirely. Just redundant. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 14:19:35 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:19:35 -0400 Subject: Rogers/Yahoo @#$% In-Reply-To: <225205.49001.qm-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <225205.49001.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070822141935.GC9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 22, 2007 at 09:57:44AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Roger-Yahoo webmail system appears to have dropped all > support for Linux based browsers (OUCH!!!). My > attempts to login this morning just got me error > messages about how my browser was not supported (they > do support FireFox BUT only on Mac & PC). Rogers phone > support was useless (they point the finger at Yahoo). > > Temp. solution is to goto the www.yahoo.com site, > login there which at least for now works... > > I tried Konquerer's change browser ID function but > that doesn't get past the your web browser is not > supported message. Anyone got a better solution? Well I tried doing a useragent override in firefox and the site works just fine now. I went to about:config in firefox, added a new key named: general.useragent.override and set the value to: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; InfoPath.1) Amazingly stupid to not simply allow any firefox 1.5 or higher rather than mac or windows only. But it is Yahoo/Rogers so stupidity is to be expected. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 00:14:15 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 20:14:15 -0400 Subject: Music Managers In-Reply-To: <1183733161.5608.9.camel@ubuntu> References: <1183733161.5608.9.camel@ubuntu> Message-ID: <46CB7FD7.1050104@visible-assets.com> Banshee is my music manager of choice. It's very well put together and has support for several digital audio players. I would suggest sticking with 0.12.1 for now - I ran into an issue with 0.13. Cheers, ~/Chris Kareem Shehata wrote: > Just a quick question: any suggestions for a good music manager? I have > admit that I really liked the way iTunes kept everything in order on my > Windows box, but it would be nice to have something with ogg support and > less Apple-controlled. > > Cheers, > > -kms > > Kareem Shehata > kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 14:37:14 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rogers/Yahoo @#$% In-Reply-To: <20070822141935.GC9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070822141935.GC9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <215449.24536.qm@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Aug 22, 2007 at 09:57:44AM -0400, Colin > McGregor wrote: > > Roger-Yahoo webmail system appears to have dropped > all > > support for Linux based browsers (OUCH!!!). My > > attempts to login this morning just got me error > > messages about how my browser was not supported > (they > > do support FireFox BUT only on Mac & PC). Rogers > phone > > support was useless (they point the finger at > Yahoo). > > > > Temp. solution is to goto the www.yahoo.com site, > > login there which at least for now works... > > > > I tried Konquerer's change browser ID function but > > that doesn't get past the your web browser is not > > supported message. Anyone got a better solution? > > Well I tried doing a useragent override in firefox > and the site works > just fine now. > > I went to about:config in firefox, added a new key > named: > > general.useragent.override > > and set the value to: > > Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; > SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; InfoPath.1) > > Amazingly stupid to not simply allow any firefox 1.5 > or higher rather > than mac or windows only. But it is Yahoo/Rogers so > stupidity is to be > expected. Thanks, that does work. VERY much appreciated. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 14:40:58 2007 From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:40:58 -0400 Subject: Rogers/Yahoo @#$% In-Reply-To: <225205.49001.qm-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <225205.49001.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070822104058.e34bra6v14hwkow4@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> Glad to hear you found a workaround, but here's a solution to the underlying problem: change ISPs to a more O/S-agnostic one :) Quoting Colin McGregor : > Roger-Yahoo webmail system appears to have dropped all > support for Linux based browsers (OUCH!!!). My > attempts to login this morning just got me error > messages about how my browser was not supported (they > do support FireFox BUT only on Mac & PC). Rogers phone > support was useless (they point the finger at Yahoo). > > Temp. solution is to goto the www.yahoo.com site, > login there which at least for now works... > > I tried Konquerer's change browser ID function but > that doesn't get past the your web browser is not > supported message. Anyone got a better solution? > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 15:30:02 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:30:02 -0400 Subject: apt sources.list syntax In-Reply-To: <32021.67739.qm-E1eVPpLDIxaB9c0Qi4KiSg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <32021.67739.qm@web88306.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200708221130.02607.mervc@eol.ca> On Tuesday 21 August 2007 21:57, KEITH MASTIN wrote: > I found the answer in apt Pinning. Swapped the last line for this: > > #Debian Unstable > deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian etch main contrib non-free > > This works now. > > 10X > > KEITH MASTIN wrote: Hey all; > .... > If someone could shed some light on this or lead me in the right direction, > I would be eternally grateful. TIA > There are other useful repositories, maybe the most useful is debian-mutlimedia.org but a mirror that is ok is [sources.list] deb http://gulus.usherbrooke.ca/pub/distro/debian/debian-multimedia etch main You will see error messages until you apt-get install debian-multimedia-keyring In a few months if your system is still stable you could change to the testing repository which will upgrade many programs to newer versions. All this involves is changing the word 'etch' to 'testing' in each line of sources.list. I would stay away from 'unstable' for awhile. You really only need 3 active lines in sources.list, all packages in etch, security updates from etch and the debian-multimedia site. You will come across more, if you want google-earth, they have a debian repository and so on. It is highly unlikely that you will need any source code debs so put a # at the head of the deb-src lines. You are finished with the CDRom so that could also have a # at the beginning of the line. These will all speedup the 'apt-get update' that you should do weekly or more often. Hopefully you understood Lennart's message, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear otherwise, :-) Enjoy apt-getting -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian lenny Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.7 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kmastin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 15:31:33 2007 From: kmastin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (KEITH MASTIN) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:31:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: apt sources.list syntax In-Reply-To: <20070822135709.GB9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070822135709.GB9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <2082.12364.qm@web88309.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: On Tue, Aug 21, 2007 at 09:57:53PM -0400, KEITH MASTIN wrote: > >I found the answer in apt Pinning. Swapped the last line for this: > > > >#Debian Unstable >> deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian etch main contrib non-free >Why a comment saying unstable for a line saying etch (= stable). Urk! Did I mention this is my first kick at Debian? >And yes since java is in non-free, adding that helps. >Might as well just add the 'contrib non-free' to your first line from >yorku instead, and drop the last line entirely. Just redundant. Hmmm.... I did a web search and only got hits for the debian servers based in the states. Shortest distance between 2 points and all that.... Point taken though. Thanks -- Len Sorensen -Kind regards, Keith -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kmastin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 15:42:55 2007 From: kmastin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (KEITH MASTIN) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rogers/Yahoo @#$% In-Reply-To: <225205.49001.qm-DooQHYYYUaiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <225205.49001.qm@web88202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <343016.35370.qm@web88307.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I had the same problem with both IceWeasel and Epiphany the other day. Browser not supported. After installing Firefox 2.0.0.6 the problem went away. Funny thing is, the problem went away for all 3 browsers. Colin McGregor wrote: Roger-Yahoo webmail system appears to have dropped all support for Linux based browsers (OUCH!!!). My attempts to login this morning just got me error messages about how my browser was not supported (they do support FireFox BUT only on Mac & PC). Rogers phone support was useless (they point the finger at Yahoo). Temp. solution is to goto the www.yahoo.com site, login there which at least for now works... I tried Konquerer's change browser ID function but that doesn't get past the your web browser is not supported message. Anyone got a better solution? Colin McGregor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kmastin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 16:11:54 2007 From: kmastin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (KEITH MASTIN) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:11:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: apt sources.list syntax In-Reply-To: <20070822135554.GA9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070822135554.GA9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <796279.68791.qm@web88313.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: On Tue, Aug 21, 2007 at 08:15:29PM -0400, KEITH MASTIN wrote: > >Hey all; ... >> 404 Not Found >packages.debian.org is NOT a package archive. You can't use that as a >package source. Found out the hard way. >If you want some parts of unstable, you have to add something like: >deb http://debian.yorku.ca/debian/ unstable main >Then since that will make it upgrade the whole system to unstable, you >add something like: >/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01default: >APT::Default-Release "stable"; >You can then upgrade normally since it will prefer things from stable. >If you want a package from unstable you can do: >apt-get install packagename/unstable >It will then tag that package to come from unstable and keep upgrading >it from unstable. You can also do: >apt-get -t unstable install packagename >That will install the package and all dependancies from unstable and tag >them all as such to continue upgrading those from unstable. Apparently, there's also /etc/apt/preferences file that can be edited to set priorities to achieve the same thing. The reference from the bible (sarge) pp. 98-99 is like so: Explanation: Sarge Package: * Pin: release a=stable Pin-Priority: 999 Explanation: Etch Package: * Pin: release a=testing Pin-Priority: 90 Explanation: Sid Package: * Pin: release a=unstable Pin-Priority: 80 Package: * Pin: release a=experimental Pin-Priority: 10 ... In the example preferences file, packages belonging to the stable release get the highest priority. Testing, unstable and experimental are both less than 100, so assuming you have a package installed, you will not be prompted to upgrade it even if a newer version is available than what is stable. If you run apt-cache policy again, you can see the difference pinning makes:.... >Mixing and matching often doesn't work though, and may in fact already >be imposible between etch and testing/unstable due to the major change >in libc version, and if you upgrade libc on stable then you are very >much not running stable anymore and would be better off moving to >testing entirely. My first run at Debian. I might very well have to backup/format/re-install due to previously unforeseen foobars at some time. And I thought Redhat was a learning cliff... >Of course if all you want is java stuff you should be able to install >sun's java packages directly from the debian archive. You just have to >add 'contrib non-free' after 'main' to your original deb line. Java >isn't "free" so it goes in "non-free" which you have to tell it you want >to use. Then you can install sun-java5-jre or sun-java5-jdk, etc. My web searches didn't show these packages in the stable repositories. I wouldn't be suprised to learn that I missed something though... Thanks -- Len Sorensen -- Kind regards, Keith -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 16:57:11 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:57:11 -0400 Subject: apt sources.list syntax In-Reply-To: <796279.68791.qm-45SaQNQO+WOB9c0Qi4KiSg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070822135554.GA9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <796279.68791.qm@web88313.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070822165711.GA13493@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, Aug 22, 2007 at 12:11:54PM -0400, KEITH MASTIN wrote: > >Mixing and matching often doesn't work though, and may in fact already > >be imposible between etch and testing/unstable due to the major change > >in libc version, and if you upgrade libc on stable then you are very > >much not running stable anymore and would be better off moving to > >testing entirely. > > My first run at Debian. I might very well have to > backup/format/re-install due to previously unforeseen foobars at some > time. And I thought Redhat was a learning cliff... Getting Debian up and running is not its strength, as you are discovering. I was trying lots of different distros for a while, and I thought I'd keep trying others, but once I got Debian installed I found no reason to switch. My systems are up to date, but I last installed more than two years ago. apt-get dist-upgrade keeps me as close to the cutting edge as I care to be, and everything just keeps working (mostly - there is the occasional wobble, but I'm *astonished* at how well things work.) Good luck! -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 17:04:21 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 13:04:21 -0400 Subject: apt sources.list syntax In-Reply-To: <20070822165711.GA13493-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070822135554.GA9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <796279.68791.qm@web88313.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <20070822165711.GA13493@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070822170421.GD9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 22, 2007 at 12:57:11PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Getting Debian up and running is not its strength, as you are > discovering. I was trying lots of different distros for a while, and I > thought I'd keep trying others, but once I got Debian installed I found > no reason to switch. My systems are up to date, but I last installed > more than two years ago. apt-get dist-upgrade keeps me as close to the > cutting edge as I care to be, and everything just keeps working (mostly > - there is the occasional wobble, but I'm *astonished* at how well > things work.) Good luck! I have one machine running Debian that was last installed during the summer of 1999. dist-upgrade works well. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 14:15:02 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:15:02 -0400 Subject: Novell OpenOffice for other distros? Message-ID: <46CD9666.4000007@telly.org> As some of you might know, Novell has been shipping its own version of OpenOffice, which includes a number of bug-fixes as well as (claimed) significantly improved interoperability with Microsoft file formats (both OpenXML and previous). I' ve been using the Windows version of it instead of the 'official' OOo. Apparently they include the Linux version on the free version of SuSE as well. Is anyone here aware of any work to repackage this for other distros? Thanks! - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 14:29:49 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:29:49 -0400 Subject: Novell OpenOffice for other distros? In-Reply-To: <46CD9666.4000007-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <46CD9666.4000007@telly.org> Message-ID: <46CD99DD.60708@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > As some of you might know, Novell has been shipping its own version of > OpenOffice, which includes a number of bug-fixes as well as (claimed) > significantly improved interoperability with Microsoft file formats > (both OpenXML and previous). > > I' ve been using the Windows version of it instead of the 'official' > OOo. Apparently they include the Linux version on the free version of > SuSE as well. > > Is anyone here aware of any work to repackage this for other distros? > > My understanding is that Novell contributes their changes back to the community, so they should eventually appear in other versions. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 14:40:38 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:40:38 -0400 Subject: Novell OpenOffice for other distros? In-Reply-To: <46CD99DD.60708-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46CD9666.4000007@telly.org> <46CD99DD.60708@rogers.com> Message-ID: <46CD9C66.7090702@telly.org> James Knott wrote: > My understanding is that Novell contributes their changes back to the > community, so they should eventually appear in other versions. This is correct AFAIK. However, I'm aware of the speed at which OOo operates, and I' d like to use the features this decade. Also, it' s not certain that all Novell submissions will be accepted -- some of the Microsoft compatibility features are philosophically contentious and may possibly be rejected on political grounds. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 14:58:00 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:58:00 -0400 Subject: Novell OpenOffice for other distros? In-Reply-To: <46CD9C66.7090702-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <46CD9666.4000007@telly.org> <46CD99DD.60708@rogers.com> <46CD9C66.7090702@telly.org> Message-ID: <46CDA078.3060809@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > James Knott wrote: > >> My understanding is that Novell contributes their changes back to the >> community, so they should eventually appear in other versions. >> > This is correct AFAIK. However, I'm aware of the speed at which OOo > operates, and I' d like to use the features this decade. Also, it' s not > certain that all Novell submissions will be accepted -- some of the > Microsoft compatibility features are philosophically contentious and may > possibly be rejected on political grounds. > > Have you tried installing it? the RPMs are availalble and if that fails, there's always the source. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pmaddocks-9U2EIkBaTy57jpW2VZu3qypHNdL/HXVq at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 15:15:51 2007 From: pmaddocks-9U2EIkBaTy57jpW2VZu3qypHNdL/HXVq at public.gmane.org (pmaddocks-9U2EIkBaTy57jpW2VZu3qypHNdL/HXVq at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:15:51 -0400 Subject: Philip Maddocks/CORP/BROOKFIELD is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 23/08/2007 and will not return until 24/08/2007. I will respond to your message when I return. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 15:30:16 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:30:16 -0400 Subject: Mutt and Maildir oddness Message-ID: <20070823153016.GC13493@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I am using mutt for mail reading, and I recently switched to using maildirs, rather than mbox files. I have been happy with the switch, but I have found one thing that is odd. When I get new mail, procmail puts it into folders based on several criteria. That works just fine. The oddness comes when I look at the folder view in mutt. For some folders, when new mail arrives it "touch"es the directory, and so those directories get bumped to the top of my list. However, other directories don't get moved to the top of the list when mail is added. For instance, when I am in mutt and I wish to change mail folders, I press "c?", which shows a directory listing of my mailboxes. It is sorted by modified date, with the most recent changes at the top. Right now it shows, tlug, inbox, mom, etc... If I get a new message in my inbox, the order changes - inbox, tlug, mom, etc... If I get a new message from my mom, the order doesn't change - but there is no appreciable difference in permissions or behaviour - the directory just isn't "touch"ed. The procmail rules are practically identical, and I can so no reason why some mail folders register new mail while others don't. Does anyone know what's going on? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 15:42:05 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:42:05 -0400 Subject: Novell OpenOffice for other distros? In-Reply-To: <46CDA078.3060809-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46CD9666.4000007@telly.org> <46CD99DD.60708@rogers.com> <46CD9C66.7090702@telly.org> <46CDA078.3060809@rogers.com> Message-ID: <46CDAACD.9090600@telly.org> James Knott wrote: > Have you tried installing it? the RPMs are availalble Sigh, This just brings us back to my original question ... is anyone here aware of efforts to repackage it for other distros? Unfortunately, RPM != RPM. SuSE ones don' t generally work on Fedora, whose RPMs don't work on Mandriva, etc. My past attempts to load one distro's RPMs on another's system have tended to end in heartbreak. Dependency renaming and all sorts of other problems. In any case, I'm currently using .deb based distros. > and if that fails, there's always the source. For Linux to be considered at all as a mainstream alternative, this is no longer an acceptable answer (if it ever was). Anyone capable of actually executing this option is already aware its availability. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 15:58:55 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:58:55 -0400 Subject: Novell OpenOffice for other distros? In-Reply-To: <46CD9666.4000007-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <46CD9666.4000007@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070823155855.GE9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 23, 2007 at 10:15:02AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > As some of you might know, Novell has been shipping its own version of > OpenOffice, which includes a number of bug-fixes as well as (claimed) > significantly improved interoperability with Microsoft file formats > (both OpenXML and previous). > > I' ve been using the Windows version of it instead of the 'official' > OOo. Apparently they include the Linux version on the free version of > SuSE as well. > > Is anyone here aware of any work to repackage this for other distros? Well Debian has 2.2.1 in unstable and 2.3.0~oog680m1 in experimental. They also tend to be good at picking up fixes for OOo, including many they have come up with themselves. (I believe debian was the first to really have OOo working properly for multiple users with a single installation without having to run the setup program for each user.) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 16:18:36 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 12:18:36 -0400 Subject: Novell OpenOffice for other distros? In-Reply-To: <20070823155855.GE9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <46CD9666.4000007@telly.org> <20070823155855.GE9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <46CDB35C.6080705@telly.org> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Aug 23, 2007 at 10:15:02AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >> As some of you might know, Novell has been shipping its own version of >> OpenOffice,[...] >> Is anyone here aware of any work to repackage this for other distros? >> > > Well Debian has 2.2.1 in unstable and 2.3.0~oog680m1 in experimental. > Those are the 'official' stream. Novell is still numbering its current release as 2.1 http://www.novell.com/products/desktop/features/ooo.html > They also tend to be good at picking up fixes for OOo, including many > they have come up with themselves. (I believe debian was the first to > really have OOo working properly for multiple users with a single > installation without having to run the setup program for each user.) > That could be interesting, and would give us _three_ different feature-sets: - the 'official' one from OOo - Novell Edition - Debian Edition - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 16:49:59 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 12:49:59 -0400 Subject: Novell OpenOffice for other distros? In-Reply-To: <46CDAACD.9090600-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <46CD9666.4000007@telly.org> <46CD99DD.60708@rogers.com> <46CD9C66.7090702@telly.org> <46CDA078.3060809@rogers.com> <46CDAACD.9090600@telly.org> Message-ID: <46CDBAB7.4040702@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > James Knott wrote: > >> Have you tried installing it? the RPMs are availalble >> > Sigh, This just brings us back to my original question ... is anyone > here aware of efforts to repackage it for other distros? > > Unfortunately, RPM != RPM. SuSE ones don' t generally work on Fedora, > whose RPMs don't work on Mandriva, etc. My past attempts to load one > distro's RPMs on another's system have tended to end in heartbreak. > Dependency renaming and all sorts of other problems. > > In any case, I'm currently using .deb based distros. > > >> and if that fails, there's always the source. >> > For Linux to be considered at all as a mainstream alternative, this is > no longer an acceptable answer (if it ever was). Anyone capable of > actually executing this option is already aware its availability. > > For someone to repackage it, they'll have to do what I suggested. They get the source and make a new package. If you, the person who's looking for that, is able to do so, why don't you do it and contribute it to another group? That is part of what the Linux community does, to make things easier for others. As for having the source available, that's one of the strengths of Linux, in that someone can take a package and move it to another system, even with different CPU etc. FWIW, I have on occasion compiled from source and it means I can run software that's not otherwise available. Also, RPM based systems have something called "checkinstall", which can make RPMs from source, which I have done as well. I assume there's something similar for .DEBs. BTW, if you go this route, make sure you get the latest packages, as the main site includes the packages as originally distributed. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 16:57:28 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 12:57:28 -0400 Subject: Novell OpenOffice for other distros? In-Reply-To: <46CDB35C.6080705-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <46CD9666.4000007@telly.org> <20070823155855.GE9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CDB35C.6080705@telly.org> Message-ID: <46CDBC78.9060501@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> On Thu, Aug 23, 2007 at 10:15:02AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> >> >>> As some of you might know, Novell has been shipping its own version of >>> OpenOffice,[...] >>> Is anyone here aware of any work to repackage this for other distros? >>> >>> >> Well Debian has 2.2.1 in unstable and 2.3.0~oog680m1 in experimental. >> >> > Those are the 'official' stream. > Novell is still numbering its current release as 2.1 > http://www.novell.com/products/desktop/features/ooo.html > > That would be the "official" release. There's a projects site that has 2.2.1 (both 32 & 64 bit), but I don't have the site address handy. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 18:23:51 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:23:51 -0400 Subject: Novell OpenOffice for other distros? In-Reply-To: <46CDBC78.9060501-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46CD9666.4000007@telly.org> <20070823155855.GE9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CDB35C.6080705@telly.org> <46CDBC78.9060501@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070823182351.GF9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 23, 2007 at 12:57:28PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > That would be the "official" release. There's a projects site that has > 2.2.1 (both 32 & 64 bit), but I don't have the site address handy. www.openoffice.org appears to have an official 2.2.1 release. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 23:34:00 2007 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 19:34:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Philip Maddocks/CORP/BROOKFIELD is out of the office. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Aug 2007, pmaddocks-9U2EIkBaTy57jpW2VZu3qypHNdL/HXVq at public.gmane.org wrote: > I will be out of the office starting 23/08/2007 and will not return until > 24/08/2007. > > I will respond to your message when I return. Hi Philip. It's a shame that after all these years some out of office (OOO) software still replies to mailing lists and people who send to mailing lists. The reality is that it is trivial to avoid doing this. Email sent via a list always has the "Precedence:" header to set to bulk, junk or list[1]. The OOO software need only check that to see if a reply is needed. The Unix vacation(1) program has worked this way for a very long time (15-20 years I believe). I encourage everyone who has OOO software that is replying to list mail to send an email along to your vendor encouraging them to apply the trivial fix that will prevent this problem from occuring. Or better yet, switch to open source software which is typically better behaved. I just felt this was a great opportunity to complain about a problem which is trivial to fix and yet goes unfixed in some software year after year. Cheers, [1] I suppose there may be badly behaved lists that do not do this but I am not aware of any. Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 18:49:58 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:49:58 -0400 Subject: interacting with wondows on a new laptop//endnote functionality Message-ID: <1187894998.17163.23.camel@localhost> hi folks, my girlfriend is buying a new laptop (thinkpad x61s, looks sweet) and is ready to make the switch to linux. However, she has one serious requirement that makes it difficult to make the full switch. She writes in MS Word and uses endnote to manage her citations. She has a substantial endnote database which she needs to retain access to, and she also uses endnote's in-paper citation facility from inside word. There don't really seem to be equivalents in openoffice for these features; the bibliographic project is working on implementing some, but that is at LEAST a year off; and as far as i can tell endnote doesn't really run in WINE. One option is to use zotero from firefox, but i don't think that's really satisfacory either. So i think michelle will need to run windows from time to time. The best option would be to run xp or vista as a virtual machine inside linux, but this may be very processor-intensive, and also, i htink it's hard to suspend-to-disk and suspend-to-ram from the host os when virtual os's are running. I know that the ubuntu xen-enabled kernels don't have suspend options enabled. Suspending will be pretty much essential on this machine, though. So what i'm hoping to do is to use the vista or xp partition as a vm under vmware, xen, or kvm, with a dual-boot option also enabled. Has anyone done this? Any suggestions on what to do? the laptop won't be here for a week or two but i want to have a plan of action in place before it arrives. Thanks loads, matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 01:51:15 2007 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:51:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! Message-ID: For the September meeting I'd like to run a debate (sort of). The title of the debate is "Emacs is superior to vi". This will be a friendly and well natured debate on the relative merits of our favourite two editors. I need 3 people for the affirmative and 3 people for the negative. The affirmative people will be saying Emacs is superior to vi while the negative people will be disputing this. Each person will speak for 4-5 minutes. Please email me asap to be a debater in GTALUG's inaugural debate and indicate which side you would prefer to debate (or if you have no preference). One thing we can be sure of - GTALUG has plenty of people ready to make themselves heard ;) Important Clarifications: - The title is deliberately vague - the definition of Emacs here includes all past & present versions of the OS^H^Heditor. - vi is correctly pronounced "vee eye". The vi team are expected to pronounce vi correctly. The Emacs team may be granted a little more latitude in how to pronounce vi. The vi team may get away with saying "Emucks". - Debaters may demonstrate points in either editor using a Linux system and the overhead projector during their debate. - Participants will be selected in the order the emails arrive in my inbox. If we have more than 6 offers of participation then those who offered first will be invited to be judges. - Participants in this debate will have first right of refusal on being a judge in future debates until such time as they take up the offer. Thanks, Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 01:57:28 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:57:28 -0400 Subject: interacting with wondows on a new laptop//endnote functionality In-Reply-To: <1187894998.17163.23.camel@localhost> References: <1187894998.17163.23.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <46CE3B08.7040907@utoronto.ca> Matt Price wrote: > hi folks, > > my girlfriend is buying a new laptop (thinkpad x61s, looks sweet) and is > ready to make the switch to linux. However, she has one serious > requirement that makes it difficult to make the full switch. She writes > in MS Word and uses endnote to manage her citations. She has a > substantial endnote database which she needs to retain access to, and > she also uses endnote's in-paper citation facility from inside word. > There don't really seem to be equivalents in openoffice for these > features; the bibliographic project is working on implementing some, but > that is at LEAST a year off; and as far as i can tell endnote doesn't > really run in WINE. I've run endnote 7 in wine, and it looks like 9.0 works fairly well too: http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iVersionId=3894 Not sure how Word would integrate with it though. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 02:13:03 2007 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:13:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: interacting with wondows on a new laptop//endnote functionality In-Reply-To: <1187894998.17163.23.camel@localhost> References: <1187894998.17163.23.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Aug 2007, Matt Price wrote: > virtual machine inside linux, but this may be very processor-intensive, Hi Matt. My wife runs Ubuntu on the desktop with MS-Windows running under VMWare. A pretty common solution really. The laptop has a dual core T2300 and 2GB of ram. The VMWare session get a 256MB. She has no performance problems at all. > and also, i htink it's hard to suspend-to-disk and suspend-to-ram from > the host os when virtual os's are running. I know that the ubuntu Yes this has proven to be something of a drag. When she ran a full VMWare workstation (5.5) she could manually suspend the VM. Now she is using the player (I may reinstall the Workstation) and normally shutsdown MS-Windows before suspending. MS-Windows isn't open so often that this has been a big issue. A change to Xen is being evaluated. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 02:21:33 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:21:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20978.74.99.30.125.1187922093.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > For the September meeting I'd like to run a debate (sort of). > > The title of the debate is "Emacs is superior to vi". This will be a > friendly > and well natured debate on the relative merits of our favourite two > editors. Questions: Maybe the winner goes up against a 'Pox on both your houses' group? (I'll help with that ;). Who plays the Don Cherry part? (They need to supply their own clown costume.) -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 02:43:01 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <335886.23779.qm@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Anyone know of a good cheap source of metal helmets and flack jackets? It had to be said :-) Colin. --- Robert Brockway wrote: > For the September meeting I'd like to run a debate > (sort of). > > The title of the debate is "Emacs is superior to > vi". This will be a friendly > and well natured debate on the relative merits of > our favourite two editors. > > I need 3 people for the affirmative and 3 people for > the negative. The > affirmative people will be saying Emacs is superior > to vi while the negative > people will be disputing this. Each person will > speak for 4-5 minutes. > > Please email me asap to be a debater in GTALUG's > inaugural debate and indicate > which side you would prefer to debate (or if you > have no preference). One > thing we can be sure of - GTALUG has plenty of > people ready to make themselves > heard ;) > > Important Clarifications: > > - The title is deliberately vague - the definition > of Emacs here includes all > past & present versions of the OS^H^Heditor. > > - vi is correctly pronounced "vee eye". The vi team > are expected to pronounce > vi correctly. The Emacs team may be granted a > little more latitude in how to > pronounce vi. The vi team may get away with saying > "Emucks". > > - Debaters may demonstrate points in either editor > using a Linux system and the > overhead projector during their debate. > > - Participants will be selected in the order the > emails arrive in my inbox. If > we have more than 6 offers of participation then > those who offered first will > be invited to be judges. > > - Participants in this debate will have first right > of refusal on being a judge > in future debates until such time as they take up > the offer. > > Thanks, > > Rob > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 03:11:09 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 23:11:09 -0400 Subject: Can't install Gentoo linux on Dell Inspiron 530 Message-ID: <20070824031109.GB5688@waltdnes.org> I got a shiny new Dell Inspiron from the "PC fairy". Windows Vista works OK (at least good enough for Windows). It does not want to be formatted. I insert the latest minimal install CD, and things start off OK at the beginning of the boot process. *THE USB KEYBOARD WORKS OK AT THE BEGINNING* I can type in "gentoo" or "gentoo-nofb". A bunch of modules load, and eventually we get to the "default keymap" stage, at which point, things fall apart. 1) The keyboard (USB) now types each character twice. If I attempt to type "41", it comes out as "4411", and the install program complains about an invalid keymap number. 2) Even though the CD managed to boot initially, it now complains about not being able to find any bootable medium. The CMOS setup shows... SATA-0 SAMSUNG HD501LJ SATA-1 HL-DT-ST CD-RW/DVD-R SATA-2 port not present SATA-3 port not present SATA-4 HL-DT-STDVD+-RW GSA- SATA-5 None Drive A 1.44M, 3.5 in The install asks me to type in either the boot device or "shell" for a shell. Of course, with a b0rk3n keyboard, I can't do either. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 03:25:49 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 23:25:49 -0400 Subject: interacting with wondows on a new laptop//endnote functionality In-Reply-To: <46CE3B08.7040907-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1187894998.17163.23.camel@localhost> <46CE3B08.7040907@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1187925949.17163.36.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2007-23-08 at 21:57 -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Matt Price wrote: > > hi folks, > > > > my girlfriend is buying a new laptop (thinkpad x61s, looks sweet) and is > > ready to make the switch to linux. However, she has one serious > > requirement that makes it difficult to make the full switch. She writes > > in MS Word and uses endnote to manage her citations. She has a > > substantial endnote database which she needs to retain access to, and > > she also uses endnote's in-paper citation facility from inside word. > > There don't really seem to be equivalents in openoffice for these > > features; the bibliographic project is working on implementing some, but > > that is at LEAST a year off; and as far as i can tell endnote doesn't > > really run in WINE. > > I've run endnote 7 in wine, and it looks like 9.0 works fairly well too: > http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iVersionId=3894 > > Not sure how Word would integrate with it though. > yeah, it seems like everyone has trouble with the cite-u-write functionality, or whatever it's called. this is the main thing that's hard to replace; zotero does almost everything else already. there's a new zoteero-openoffice plugin that does some of that now, but as ODF doesn't yet support bibliographic fields properly i can't imagine it works very well at this stage. > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 03:28:00 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 23:28:00 -0400 Subject: interacting with wondows on a new laptop//endnote functionality In-Reply-To: References: <1187894998.17163.23.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1187926080.17163.40.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2007-23-08 at 22:13 -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Thu, 23 Aug 2007, Matt Price wrote: > > > virtual machine inside linux, but this may be very processor-intensive, > > Hi Matt. My wife runs Ubuntu on the desktop with MS-Windows running under > VMWare. A pretty common solution really. The laptop has a dual core > T2300 and 2GB of ram. The VMWare session get a 256MB. She has no > performance problems at all. > may i ask what kind of vmware image you use -- a standard disk image, or a real partition? i understand the latter is possible, but i've not heard directly from anyone who's actually accomplished it. > > and also, i htink it's hard to suspend-to-disk and suspend-to-ram from > > the host os when virtual os's are running. I know that the ubuntu > > Yes this has proven to be something of a drag. When she ran a full VMWare > workstation (5.5) she could manually suspend the VM. Now she is using the > player (I may reinstall the Workstation) and normally shutsdown MS-Windows > before suspending. MS-Windows isn't open so often that this has been a > big issue. > so sounds like workstation would be a good idea. i'm not sure, but i seem to remember that it's easier to run workstation in ubuntu than it used to be. > A change to Xen is being evaluated. > if you could let me know how that goes i'd be REALLY appreciative. Thanks much, matt > Cheers, > > Rob > -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 04:06:26 2007 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 00:06:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: interacting with wondows on a new laptop//endnote functionality In-Reply-To: <1187926080.17163.40.camel@localhost> References: <1187894998.17163.23.camel@localhost> <1187926080.17163.40.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Aug 2007, Matt Price wrote: > may i ask what kind of vmware image you use -- a standard disk image, or > a real partition? i understand the latter is possible, but i've not > heard directly from anyone who's actually accomplished it. We're using a standard VMWare disk image for MS-Windows. I have quite a number of Linux disk images that were actually converted from Qemu. I did consider trying out partitions with VMWare but performance with disk images has always been good and I didn't want to lose the flexibility the images offer. >> Yes this has proven to be something of a drag. When she ran a full VMWare >> workstation (5.5) she could manually suspend the VM. Now she is using the >> player (I may reinstall the Workstation) and normally shutsdown MS-Windows >> before suspending. MS-Windows isn't open so often that this has been a >> big issue. >> > > so sounds like workstation would be a good idea. i'm not sure, but i > seem to remember that it's easier to run workstation in ubuntu than it > used to be. It's always been fairly easy to setup VMWare. These days I use bridged networking exclusively. >> A change to Xen is being evaluated. >> > if you could let me know how that goes i'd be REALLY appreciative. > Thanks much, NP. Hopefully I'll get to play with this soon. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 04:14:48 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 00:14:48 -0400 Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070824041448.GA5917@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Aug 23, 2007 at 09:51:15PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote > Important Clarifications: > > - The title is deliberately vague - the definition of Emacs here includes > all past & present versions of the OS^H^Heditor. Given that, I hope that you allow vim as part of vi, otherwise the debate is stacked in favour of emacs. If you do find "vi" on a modern linux system today, it's most likely a symlink to vim. > - vi is correctly pronounced "vee eye". It's actually pronounced as "vim" (rhymes with "him"). -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 11:12:19 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 07:12:19 -0400 Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46CEBD13.1020407@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > > - vi is correctly pronounced "vee eye". The vi team are expected to > pronounce vi correctly. I thought it was pronounced "six". ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 11:40:25 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 07:40:25 -0400 Subject: Novell OpenOffice for other distros? In-Reply-To: <46CDBAB7.4040702-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46CD9666.4000007@telly.org> <46CD99DD.60708@rogers.com> <46CD9C66.7090702@telly.org> <46CDA078.3060809@rogers.com> <46CDAACD.9090600@telly.org> <46CDBAB7.4040702@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280708240440y274f301cs239c5ca9e423a2d9@mail.gmail.com> On 8/23/07, James Knott wrote: > FWIW, I have on occasion compiled from source and it means I can run > software that's not otherwise available. Also, RPM based systems have > something called "checkinstall", which can make RPMs from source, which > I have done as well. I assume there's something similar for .DEBs. checkinstall on a Debian system makes .deb packages - I didn't know it worked on RPM-based systems. Nice to hear it. I've used it a LOT rather than installing from source: it gets the installed files listed in the package system so they don't get wiped out by a conflicting deb later (although I don't know how to generate proper dependencies for the packages it makes, so I wouldn't donate them back to the community). checkinstall is great. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 12:19:21 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:19:21 -0400 Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/23/07, Robert Brockway wrote: > I need 3 people for the affirmative and 3 people for the negative. The > affirmative people will be saying Emacs is superior to vi while the negative > people will be disputing this. Each person will speak for 4-5 minutes. Well, I've been using Emacs for a whole lot of years, so I can probably join the relevant team ;-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 13:30:36 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:30:36 -0400 Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070824133036.GD13493@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 08:19:21AM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: >On 8/23/07, Robert Brockway wrote: >> I need 3 people for the affirmative and 3 people for the negative. The >> affirmative people will be saying Emacs is superior to vi while the negative >> people will be disputing this. Each person will speak for 4-5 minutes. > >Well, I've been using Emacs for a whole lot of years, so I can >probably join the relevant team ;-). So, that's one more for the vi side :-) -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 13:48:42 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:48:42 -0400 Subject: interacting with wondows on a new laptop//endnote functionality In-Reply-To: <1187894998.17163.23.camel@localhost> References: <1187894998.17163.23.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20070824134842.GG9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 23, 2007 at 02:49:58PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > my girlfriend is buying a new laptop (thinkpad x61s, looks sweet) and is > ready to make the switch to linux. However, she has one serious > requirement that makes it difficult to make the full switch. She writes > in MS Word and uses endnote to manage her citations. She has a > substantial endnote database which she needs to retain access to, and > she also uses endnote's in-paper citation facility from inside word. > There don't really seem to be equivalents in openoffice for these > features; the bibliographic project is working on implementing some, but > that is at LEAST a year off; and as far as i can tell endnote doesn't > really run in WINE. You can always dual boot. Or use vmware, although that would require buying a copy of windows to run in vmware. > One option is to use zotero from firefox, but i don't think that's > really satisfacory either. So i think michelle will need to run windows > from time to time. The best option would be to run xp or vista as a > virtual machine inside linux, but this may be very processor-intensive, > and also, i htink it's hard to suspend-to-disk and suspend-to-ram from > the host os when virtual os's are running. I know that the ubuntu > xen-enabled kernels don't have suspend options enabled. Suspending will > be pretty much essential on this machine, though. So what i'm hoping to > do is to use the vista or xp partition as a vm under vmware, xen, or > kvm, with a dual-boot option also enabled. Has anyone done this? Any > suggestions on what to do? the laptop won't be here for a week or two > but i want to have a plan of action in place before it arrives. Personally I think the Asus R1F looks like a much nicer laptop and better deal than the thinkpad. My wife loves hers. (She has the R1F-K018E with an extra 1GB ram added for $50. The R1F-K049E has 2GB already, and a larger disk and faster cpu). There are even people working on finishing the driver for the wacom based tablet interface for linux. Apparently most of it is working as far as I can tell. Using vista under a VM violates the license. XP would be OK. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 13:50:45 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:50:45 -0400 Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070824135045.GH9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 23, 2007 at 09:51:15PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > For the September meeting I'd like to run a debate (sort of). > > The title of the debate is "Emacs is superior to vi". This will be a > friendly and well natured debate on the relative merits of our favourite > two editors. But of course it is. Now a real debate would be "Emacs is superior to vim" which would be very hard to prove. :) Plain vi drives vim users nuts too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 13:53:17 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:53:17 -0400 Subject: Can't install Gentoo linux on Dell Inspiron 530 In-Reply-To: <20070824031109.GB5688-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070824031109.GB5688@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20070824135317.GI9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 23, 2007 at 11:11:09PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I got a shiny new Dell Inspiron from the "PC fairy". Windows Vista > works OK (at least good enough for Windows). It does not want to be > formatted. I insert the latest minimal install CD, and things start > off OK at the beginning of the boot process. *THE USB KEYBOARD WORKS OK > AT THE BEGINNING* I can type in "gentoo" or "gentoo-nofb". A bunch of > modules load, and eventually we get to the "default keymap" stage, at > which point, things fall apart. > > 1) The keyboard (USB) now types each character twice. If I attempt to > type "41", it comes out as "4411", and the install program complains > about an invalid keymap number. > > 2) Even though the CD managed to boot initially, it now complains > about not being able to find any bootable medium. The CMOS setup shows... > > SATA-0 SAMSUNG HD501LJ > SATA-1 HL-DT-ST CD-RW/DVD-R > SATA-2 port not present > SATA-3 port not present > SATA-4 HL-DT-STDVD+-RW GSA- > SATA-5 None > > Drive A 1.44M, 3.5 in > > The install asks me to type in either the boot device or "shell" for a > shell. Of course, with a b0rk3n keyboard, I can't do either. Is gentoo using a new enough kernel to use sata optical drives? Does it have support for such enabled? Initial boot is handled by bios so that doesn't count. As for the keyboard, well usb handoff is broken in some bioses and can be a real pain. Dell machines are in general probably the most likely to have such bios breakage. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 13:54:55 2007 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:54:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: <20070824041448.GA5917-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070824041448.GA5917@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Aug 2007, Walter Dnes wrote: >> - The title is deliberately vague - the definition of Emacs here includes >> all past & present versions of the OS^H^Heditor. > > Given that, I hope that you allow vim as part of vi, otherwise the > debate is stacked in favour of emacs. If you do find "vi" on a modern > linux system today, it's most likely a symlink to vim. Yeah I should have been more explicit here - I meant vi and clones. >> - vi is correctly pronounced "vee eye". > > It's actually pronounced as "vim" (rhymes with "him"). Or vile or elvis :) Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 13:56:34 2007 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:56:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: <20070824135045.GH9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070824135045.GH9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Aug 2007, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > But of course it is. Now a real debate would be "Emacs is superior to > vim" which would be very hard to prove. :) Plain vi drives vim users > nuts too. Ok ok I meant vi and clones :) Len, want to join the negative (vi) side of the debate? Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 13:57:44 2007 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:57:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: <46CEBD13.1020407-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46CEBD13.1020407@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Aug 2007, James Knott wrote: > Robert Brockway wrote: >> >> - vi is correctly pronounced "vee eye". The vi team are expected to >> pronounce vi correctly. > I thought it was pronounced "six". ;-) That's my favourite mispronounciation of vi :) Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 14:15:33 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:15:33 -0400 Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: References: <20070824135045.GH9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070824141533.GJ9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 09:56:34AM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > Ok ok I meant vi and clones :) > > Len, want to join the negative (vi) side of the debate? No, getting downtown is just too much of a pain (which is why I haven't been to any meetings yet). And I don't know enough about emacs to really debate anything about it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 14:18:02 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:18:02 -0400 Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: <20070824135045.GH9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070824135045.GH9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <46CEE89A.3000708@utoronto.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Aug 23, 2007 at 09:51:15PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: >> For the September meeting I'd like to run a debate (sort of). >> >> The title of the debate is "Emacs is superior to vi". This will be a >> friendly and well natured debate on the relative merits of our favourite >> two editors. > > But of course it is. Now a real debate would be "Emacs is superior to > vim" which would be very hard to prove. :) Plain vi drives vim users > nuts too. I was surprised to find vi absent from the Debian Etch disk I was using yesterday. No ed either. I've made good use of netinstall disks in the past with things like debootstrap etc., but hadn't noticed the lack of any editor on the disk. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 14:31:32 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:31:32 -0400 Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: <46CEE89A.3000708-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070824135045.GH9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CEE89A.3000708@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <46CEEBC4.1060904@utoronto.ca> Jamon Camisso wrote: > I was surprised to find vi absent from the Debian Etch disk I was using > yesterday. No ed either. I've made good use of netinstall disks in the > past with things like debootstrap etc., but hadn't noticed the lack of > any editor on the disk. Isn't ae the canonical editor for Debian? Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 15:11:32 2007 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 11:11:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: <335886.23779.qm-57gzaD/7YRGB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <335886.23779.qm@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Aug 2007, Colin McGregor wrote: > Anyone know of a good cheap source of metal helmets > and flack jackets? Heh. If this was taking place in January, I would have suggested a snowball fight between vi users and emacs users. JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 15:23:51 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 11:23:51 -0400 Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46CEF807.1090100@ve3syb.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: > - vi is correctly pronounced "vee eye". The vi team are expected to > pronounce vi correctly. Interesting. I've always pronounced it "vie" (rhymes with eye). And that wouldn't make me a candidate for the Emacs team. :-) I've never used Emacs. I don't even have it installed on any of my machines. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 16:13:07 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:13:07 -0400 Subject: interacting with wondows on a new laptop//endnote functionality In-Reply-To: <1187926080.17163.40.camel@localhost> References: <1187894998.17163.23.camel@localhost> <1187926080.17163.40.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <22e435080708240913h78962283s2b8515c0f794fb0d@mail.gmail.com> On 8/23/07, Matt Price wrote: > may i ask what kind of vmware image you use -- a standard disk image, or > a real partition? i understand the latter is possible, but i've not > heard directly from anyone who's actually accomplished it. It was a while back for me but I did do something close to this IIRC: http://www.venturecake.com/a-simple-guide-to-using-your-existing-windows-install-apps-in-ubuntu/ -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 16:19:34 2007 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:19:34 -0400 Subject: Mutt and Maildir oddness In-Reply-To: <20070823153016.GC13493-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20070823153016.GC13493@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070824161934.GE13493@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Aug 23, 2007 at 11:30:16AM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >I am using mutt for mail reading, and I recently switched to using >maildirs, rather than mbox files. I have been happy with the switch, >but I have found one thing that is odd. When I get new mail, procmail >puts it into folders based on several criteria. That works just fine. > >The oddness comes when I look at the folder view in mutt. For some >folders, when new mail arrives it "touch"es the directory, and so those >directories get bumped to the top of my list. However, other >directories don't get moved to the top of the list when mail is added. In answer to my own question, I couldn't find a reason why this behaviour was occurring, but I did find a work-around. I am now using an extra line in my .procmailrc to "touch" the directories as a side effect of delivering mail to them. It's working quite well, but it wasn't easy to figure out, so I record it here for posterity. :0: * ^(From|To|Cc).*tlug * ? /usr/bin/touch $MAILDIR/tlug || true tlug/ First I look for my pattern match (in this case the string "tlug" in the to, from or cc header). Then, I pipe the message through a shell command (that's what the "?" does), and if it returns true, you move to the next line, in this case delivering the email to the appropriate folder. The trick was that "touch"ing the directory doesn't use the email message, and can't be counted on to return true, but the OR and calling the "true" command does. The behaviour is that the output of the last command in the string is checked, so we get to run a command as a side effect of the match line above. It's quite handy, but it is a security risk - this report bears no warranty express or implied. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 16:23:23 2007 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:23:23 -0400 Subject: Can't install Gentoo linux on Dell Inspiron 530 In-Reply-To: <20070824135317.GI9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070824031109.GB5688@waltdnes.org> <20070824135317.GI9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880708240923h15a952a3t50339209976f0352@mail.gmail.com> I installed an older gentoo on a vmware image and I had some problems with scsi devices... Can you maybe pass scsi variable in the kernel? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 17:14:00 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 13:14:00 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <20070817214719.GS9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Fri, Aug 17, 2007 at 02:51:37PM -0400, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: > > >>>>Dose anyone know how the E-MU 1212 M PCI soundcard is under linux? >>>> >>>> >>I found this at alsa-project bugtracker: >> >>The first version of the driver for 1212m and 1820m is now out there in >>kernel 2.6.19 or alsa-driver 1.0.14. >> >>Does this mean that if I either install alsa 1.0.14 or have linux with >>kernel 2.6.19 (which would have alsa 1.0.14) I should be okay (but not woth >>all features?)? >> >> > >Probably isn't fully featured yet, but at least basic support ought to >be there in a current kernel then. > I ended up buying this card (E-MU 1212 M PCI). It was a hundred bucks, used, from L&McQ. So, it does not come with a manual. I have three things (at least) to work through: 1. No sound. I'm getting no sound out of it at all. gnome-volume-control detected the card as EMU APS [Audio Mixer (OSS)]. I guess semi-pro cards do not have a port called "speakers". The card is in two parts - the part with the PCI teeth has "EXTERNAL" (looks like ethernet), co-ax (RCA) S/DIF IN and OUT, ADAT and a six-sided port with some kind of nuclear power symbol beside it. The slave card (if I can call it that - no PCI teeth, just a ribbon cable to it) has 1/4" INs and OUTs and MIDI IN and OUT. So, the only thing that seems likely to take sound to speakers are the 1/4" OUTs. So, I hooked up a pair of cheap PC speakers but no sound is coming out. The speakers are fine, because I was using them last night with the old soundcard (SBL! 5.1). 2. Mystery driver. Another interesting thing is that gnome-volume-control reports a second card (or driver?): Soiund Blaster Audigy [Alsa Mixer]. Why would that be? I never had that card. There is an onboard card that I disabled in the BIOS a long time ago, and I took my SBL! 5.1 out this morning. 3. System Adequate? I ran commands to find kernel and alsa version. [chris at p733 chris]$ uname -r 2.6.5-1.358 [chris at p733 chris]$ cat /proc/asound/version Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Driver Version 1.0.4rc2 (Tue Mar 30 08:19:30 2004 UTC). Compiled on May 8 2004 for kernel 2.6.5-1.358. Like I posted at the top of this email, alsa-project bugtracker advises kernel 2.6.19 (I have 2.6.5-1.358, which I guess is an older version) and alsa-driver 1.0.14 (I have 1.0.4rc2, which I guess /is/ okay). Any ideas? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 17:44:47 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 13:44:47 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46CF11D8.3090603-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> Chris Aitken wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> On Fri, Aug 17, 2007 at 02:51:37PM -0400, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: >> >> >>>>> Dose anyone know how the E-MU 1212 M PCI soundcard is under linux? >>>>> >>> I found this at alsa-project bugtracker: >>> The first version of the driver for 1212m and 1820m is now out there >>> in kernel 2.6.19 or alsa-driver 1.0.14. >>> Does this mean that if I either install alsa 1.0.14 or have linux >>> with kernel 2.6.19 (which would have alsa 1.0.14) I should be okay >>> (but not woth all features?)? >> >> Probably isn't fully featured yet, but at least basic support ought to >> be there in a current kernel then. > I ended up buying this card (E-MU 1212 M PCI). It was a hundred bucks, > used, from L&McQ. So, it does not come with a manual. I have three > things (at least) to work through: > > 1. No sound. I'm getting no sound out of it at all. gnome-volume-control > detected the card as EMU APS [Audio Mixer (OSS)]. I guess semi-pro cards > do not have a port called "speakers". The card is in two parts - the > part with the PCI teeth has "EXTERNAL" (looks like ethernet), co-ax > (RCA) S/DIF IN and OUT, ADAT and a six-sided port with some kind of > nuclear power symbol beside it. The slave card (if I can call it that - > no PCI teeth, just a ribbon cable to it) has 1/4" INs and OUTs and MIDI > IN and OUT. So, the only thing that seems likely to take sound to > speakers are the 1/4" OUTs. So, I hooked up a pair of cheap PC speakers > but no sound is coming out. The speakers are fine, because I was using > them last night with the old soundcard (SBL! 5.1). > > 2. Mystery driver. Another interesting thing is that > gnome-volume-control reports a second card (or driver?): Soiund Blaster > Audigy [Alsa Mixer]. Why would that be? I never had that card. There is > an onboard card that I disabled in the BIOS a long time ago, and I took > my SBL! 5.1 out this morning. > > 3. System Adequate? I ran commands to find kernel and alsa version. > > [chris at p733 chris]$ uname -r > 2.6.5-1.358 > [chris at p733 chris]$ cat /proc/asound/version > Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Driver Version 1.0.4rc2 (Tue Mar 30 > 08:19:30 2004 UTC). > Compiled on May 8 2004 for kernel 2.6.5-1.358. > > Like I posted at the top of this email, alsa-project bugtracker advises > kernel 2.6.19 (I have 2.6.5-1.358, which I guess is an older version) > and alsa-driver 1.0.14 (I have 1.0.4rc2, which I guess /is/ okay). 1.0.14 > 1.0.4, so that probably isn't ok if the bugtracker advises the former. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 18:41:27 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 14:41:27 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46CF11D8.3090603-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20070824184127.GK9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 01:14:00PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > I ended up buying this card (E-MU 1212 M PCI). It was a hundred bucks, > used, from L&McQ. So, it does not come with a manual. I have three > things (at least) to work through: > > 1. No sound. I'm getting no sound out of it at all. gnome-volume-control > detected the card as EMU APS [Audio Mixer (OSS)]. I guess semi-pro cards > do not have a port called "speakers". The card is in two parts - the > part with the PCI teeth has "EXTERNAL" (looks like ethernet), co-ax > (RCA) S/DIF IN and OUT, ADAT and a six-sided port with some kind of > nuclear power symbol beside it. The slave card (if I can call it that - > no PCI teeth, just a ribbon cable to it) has 1/4" INs and OUTs and MIDI > IN and OUT. So, the only thing that seems likely to take sound to > speakers are the 1/4" OUTs. So, I hooked up a pair of cheap PC speakers > but no sound is coming out. The speakers are fine, because I was using > them last night with the old soundcard (SBL! 5.1). The 1/4" outs are balanced and can not be trivially connected to PC speakers. Balanced connectors use a ground reference and a pair of differential signal lines. To connect you need the right cables such as this one: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/closeup/CPR202--Main That is a stereo RCA to unbalanced TS cable. The manual from emu even mentions it. You can get the PDF at the emu website here: http://www.emu.com/support/files/storage/1820_1.81_(EN).pdf The 1820 and 1212 are related. Or you could use something like this: http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?category=142&subcategory=191&product=13342 That one is easier to use for pc speakers since it has a 1/8" stereo jack rather than RCA jacks. > 2. Mystery driver. Another interesting thing is that > gnome-volume-control reports a second card (or driver?): Soiund Blaster > Audigy [Alsa Mixer]. Why would that be? I never had that card. There is > an onboard card that I disabled in the BIOS a long time ago, and I took > my SBL! 5.1 out this morning. Did you remove any saved settings for alsa that were left over from the sb live? Maybe that is confusing it. > 3. System Adequate? I ran commands to find kernel and alsa version. > > [chris at p733 chris]$ uname -r > 2.6.5-1.358 Maybe you should get something more current. 2.6.22 has full alsa 1.0.14 for example. What do you see in /proc/asound/cards ? > [chris at p733 chris]$ cat /proc/asound/version > Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Driver Version 1.0.4rc2 (Tue Mar 30 > 08:19:30 2004 UTC). > Compiled on May 8 2004 for kernel 2.6.5-1.358. > > Like I posted at the top of this email, alsa-project bugtracker advises > kernel 2.6.19 (I have 2.6.5-1.358, which I guess is an older version) > and alsa-driver 1.0.14 (I have 1.0.4rc2, which I guess /is/ okay). It may or may not be good enough. The support was supposed to be in 2.6.14 but rc2 may not have had it yet. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 18:42:22 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 14:42:22 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46CF190F.3090607-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070824184222.GL9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 01:44:47PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > 1.0.14 > 1.0.4, so that probably isn't ok if the bugtracker advises the > former. Wow I misread that as 1.0.14rc2. Yes 1.0.4rc2 is ancient (2 or 3 years old). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 18:55:42 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 14:55:42 -0400 Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: References: , <20070824041448.GA5917@waltdnes.org>, Message-ID: <46CEF16E.25364.58FAB38@sciguy.vex.net> > Or vile or elvis :) > I believe vile represents a concession to the emacs side of the debate. But I am an Elvis user, and quite like it. It's nothing like emacs. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 19:01:45 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 15:01:45 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46CF190F.3090607-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Chris Aitken wrote: > >> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Aug 17, 2007 at 02:51:37PM -0400, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: >>> >>> >>>>>> Dose anyone know how the E-MU 1212 M PCI soundcard is under >>>>>> linux? >>>>> >>>> I found this at alsa-project bugtracker: >>>> The first version of the driver for 1212m and 1820m is now out >>>> there in kernel 2.6.19 or alsa-driver 1.0.14. >>>> Does this mean that if I either install alsa 1.0.14 or have linux >>>> with kernel 2.6.19 (which would have alsa 1.0.14) I should be okay >>>> (but not woth all features?)? >>> >>> >>> Probably isn't fully featured yet, but at least basic support ought to >>> be there in a current kernel then. >> >> I ended up buying this card (E-MU 1212 M PCI). It was a hundred >> bucks, used, from L&McQ. So, it does not come with a manual. I have >> three things (at least) to work through: >> >> 1. No sound. I'm getting no sound out of it at all. >> gnome-volume-control detected the card as EMU APS [Audio Mixer >> (OSS)]. I guess semi-pro cards do not have a port called "speakers". >> The card is in two parts - the part with the PCI teeth has "EXTERNAL" >> (looks like ethernet), co-ax (RCA) S/DIF IN and OUT, ADAT and a >> six-sided port with some kind of nuclear power symbol beside it. The >> slave card (if I can call it that - no PCI teeth, just a ribbon cable >> to it) has 1/4" INs and OUTs and MIDI IN and OUT. So, the only thing >> that seems likely to take sound to speakers are the 1/4" OUTs. So, I >> hooked up a pair of cheap PC speakers but no sound is coming out. The >> speakers are fine, because I was using them last night with the old >> soundcard (SBL! 5.1). >> >> 2. Mystery driver. Another interesting thing is that >> gnome-volume-control reports a second card (or driver?): Soiund >> Blaster Audigy [Alsa Mixer]. Why would that be? I never had that >> card. There is an onboard card that I disabled in the BIOS a long >> time ago, and I took my SBL! 5.1 out this morning. >> >> 3. System Adequate? I ran commands to find kernel and alsa version. >> >> [chris at p733 chris]$ uname -r >> 2.6.5-1.358 >> [chris at p733 chris]$ cat /proc/asound/version >> Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Driver Version 1.0.4rc2 (Tue Mar 30 >> 08:19:30 2004 UTC). >> Compiled on May 8 2004 for kernel 2.6.5-1.358. >> >> Like I posted at the top of this email, alsa-project bugtracker >> advises kernel 2.6.19 (I have 2.6.5-1.358, which I guess is an older >> version) and alsa-driver 1.0.14 (I have 1.0.4rc2, which I guess /is/ >> okay). > > > 1.0.14 > 1.0.4, so that probably isn't ok if the bugtracker advises > the former. Oops, I thought a zero was implied after the final digit (i.e. 1.0.4 si the same as 1.0.40, but I guess that's not so). I might just download the ISOs fro FC7 and upgrade, if FC7 is stable (and my hardware can handle it)... Chris > > Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 19:19:30 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 15:19:30 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46CF2B19.5000207-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20070824191930.GM9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 03:01:45PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > Oops, I thought a zero was implied after the final digit (i.e. 1.0.4 si > the same as 1.0.40, but I guess that's not so). I might just download > the ISOs fro FC7 and upgrade, if FC7 is stable (and my hardware can > handle it)... No version numbers are simply numbers seperated by dots. So 1.009.2 is the same as 1.9.2 1.0.4 is the same as 1.0.0004 and is less than 1.0.14 since 14 > 4. So leading zeroes are optional (and rarely used) and nothing trailing is ever implied. Time for an upgrade to newer alsa utilities, libraries and a newer kernel with 1.0.14 alsa drivers. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 19:29:49 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 15:29:49 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <20070824191930.GM9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> <20070824191930.GM9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <46CF31AD.6000801@chrisaitken.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 03:01:45PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > > >>Oops, I thought a zero was implied after the final digit (i.e. 1.0.4 si >>the same as 1.0.40, but I guess that's not so). I might just download >>the ISOs fro FC7 and upgrade, if FC7 is stable (and my hardware can >>handle it)... >> >> > >No version numbers are simply numbers seperated by dots. > >So 1.009.2 is the same as 1.9.2 > >1.0.4 is the same as 1.0.0004 and is less than 1.0.14 since 14 > 4. > >So leading zeroes are optional (and rarely used) and nothing trailing is >ever implied. > > Thanks for the explanation. >Time for an upgrade to newer alsa utilities, libraries and a newer >kernel with 1.0.14 alsa drivers. > > Okay, I want upgrade to F7. I have found all kinds of erositories with DVD ISO but none with the CD ISO... Chris >-- >Len Sorensen > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 19:34:51 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 15:34:51 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46CF2B19.5000207-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <46CF32DB.6070102@utoronto.ca> Chris Aitken wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: > >> Chris Aitken wrote: >> >>> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> >>>> On Fri, Aug 17, 2007 at 02:51:37PM -0400, chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Dose anyone know how the E-MU 1212 M PCI soundcard is under >>>>>>> linux? >>>>>> >>>>> I found this at alsa-project bugtracker: >>>>> The first version of the driver for 1212m and 1820m is now out >>>>> there in kernel 2.6.19 or alsa-driver 1.0.14. >>>>> Does this mean that if I either install alsa 1.0.14 or have linux >>>>> with kernel 2.6.19 (which would have alsa 1.0.14) I should be okay >>>>> (but not woth all features?)? >>>> >>>> >>>> Probably isn't fully featured yet, but at least basic support ought to >>>> be there in a current kernel then. >>> >>> I ended up buying this card (E-MU 1212 M PCI). It was a hundred >>> bucks, used, from L&McQ. So, it does not come with a manual. I have >>> three things (at least) to work through: >>> >>> 1. No sound. I'm getting no sound out of it at all. >>> gnome-volume-control detected the card as EMU APS [Audio Mixer >>> (OSS)]. I guess semi-pro cards do not have a port called "speakers". >>> The card is in two parts - the part with the PCI teeth has "EXTERNAL" >>> (looks like ethernet), co-ax (RCA) S/DIF IN and OUT, ADAT and a >>> six-sided port with some kind of nuclear power symbol beside it. The >>> slave card (if I can call it that - no PCI teeth, just a ribbon cable >>> to it) has 1/4" INs and OUTs and MIDI IN and OUT. So, the only thing >>> that seems likely to take sound to speakers are the 1/4" OUTs. So, I >>> hooked up a pair of cheap PC speakers but no sound is coming out. The >>> speakers are fine, because I was using them last night with the old >>> soundcard (SBL! 5.1). >>> >>> 2. Mystery driver. Another interesting thing is that >>> gnome-volume-control reports a second card (or driver?): Soiund >>> Blaster Audigy [Alsa Mixer]. Why would that be? I never had that >>> card. There is an onboard card that I disabled in the BIOS a long >>> time ago, and I took my SBL! 5.1 out this morning. >>> >>> 3. System Adequate? I ran commands to find kernel and alsa version. >>> >>> [chris at p733 chris]$ uname -r >>> 2.6.5-1.358 >>> [chris at p733 chris]$ cat /proc/asound/version >>> Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Driver Version 1.0.4rc2 (Tue Mar 30 >>> 08:19:30 2004 UTC). >>> Compiled on May 8 2004 for kernel 2.6.5-1.358. >>> >>> Like I posted at the top of this email, alsa-project bugtracker >>> advises kernel 2.6.19 (I have 2.6.5-1.358, which I guess is an older >>> version) and alsa-driver 1.0.14 (I have 1.0.4rc2, which I guess /is/ >>> okay). >> >> >> 1.0.14 > 1.0.4, so that probably isn't ok if the bugtracker advises >> the former. > > Oops, I thought a zero was implied after the final digit (i.e. 1.0.4 si > the same as 1.0.40, but I guess that's not so). I might just download > the ISOs fro FC7 and upgrade, if FC7 is stable (and my hardware can > handle it)... Fedora 7 (not Fedora Core, just Fedora now) is very stable, I've had it running for a few months now (almost 3 since it was released) and haven't run into any problems. It's no Debian :) but it certainly does the job, and well. You'll want to do a clean install though, upgrades between Fedora releases are notoriously variable in ease, most are riddled with hidden pitfalls -- your data might even get eaten by a grue if you aren't careful. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 19:34:18 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 15:34:18 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46CF31AD.6000801-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> <20070824191930.GM9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF31AD.6000801@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <46CF32BA.6060101@chrisaitken.net> Chris Aitken wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 03:01:45PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: >> >> >>> Oops, I thought a zero was implied after the final digit (i.e. 1.0.4 >>> si the same as 1.0.40, but I guess that's not so). I might just >>> download the ISOs fro FC7 and upgrade, if FC7 is stable (and my >>> hardware can handle it)... >>> >> >> >> No version numbers are simply numbers seperated by dots. >> >> So 1.009.2 is the same as 1.9.2 >> >> 1.0.4 is the same as 1.0.0004 and is less than 1.0.14 since 14 > 4. >> >> So leading zeroes are optional (and rarely used) and nothing trailing is >> ever implied. >> >> > Thanks for the explanation. > >> Time for an upgrade to newer alsa utilities, libraries and a newer >> kernel with 1.0.14 alsa drivers. >> >> > Okay, I want upgrade to F7. I have found all kinds of erositories with > DVD ISO but none with the CD ISO... I found one explanation that to install from CD, you instal from the live CD... > > Chris > >> -- >> Len Sorensen > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 19:37:16 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 15:37:16 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46CF32DB.6070102-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> <46CF32DB.6070102@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <46CF336C.9080708@chrisaitken.net> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Fedora 7 (not Fedora Core, just Fedora now) is very stable, I've had > it running for a few months now (almost 3 since it was released) and > haven't run into any problems. It's no Debian :) but it certainly does > the job, and well. > > You'll want to do a clean install though, Oh, man, I have so many applications that were tough to install: rosegarden, hppsc 1610 driver, and a few more... > upgrades between Fedora releases are notoriously variable in ease, > most are riddled with hidden pitfalls -- your data might even get > eaten by a grue if you aren't careful. I'vwe had pretty good luck with upgrades between releases. Is the one to 7 /particularly/ bad? Chris > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 19:54:03 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 15:54:03 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46CF31AD.6000801-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> <20070824191930.GM9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF31AD.6000801@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20070824195403.GN9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 03:29:49PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > Okay, I want upgrade to F7. I have found all kinds of erositories with > DVD ISO but none with the CD ISO... Can't you just upgrade over the internet? Doesn't all distributions do that these days? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 19:55:28 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 15:55:28 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46CF32DB.6070102-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> <46CF32DB.6070102@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070824195528.GO9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 03:34:51PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Fedora 7 (not Fedora Core, just Fedora now) is very stable, I've had it > running for a few months now (almost 3 since it was released) and > haven't run into any problems. It's no Debian :) but it certainly does > the job, and well. > > You'll want to do a clean install though, upgrades between Fedora > releases are notoriously variable in ease, most are riddled with hidden > pitfalls -- your data might even get eaten by a grue if you aren't careful. Whee sounds like fun. Good to know redhat still does their upgrades the way they always have. Well maybe not. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 20:14:04 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 16:14:04 -0400 Subject: Can't install Gentoo linux on Dell Inspiron 530 In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880708240923h15a952a3t50339209976f0352-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070824031109.GB5688@waltdnes.org> <20070824135317.GI9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880708240923h15a952a3t50339209976f0352@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070824201404.GA7095@waltdnes.org> On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 12:23:23PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote > I installed an older gentoo on a vmware image and I had some problems > with scsi devices... At the first boot prompt I tried several options... gentoo root=/dev/hda1 gentoo root=/dev/sda1 I also read /usr/src/linux/Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt and tried various iterations of... gentoo atkbd.foobar=n No luck at all. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 21:01:54 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:01:54 +0000 Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: <20070824135045.GH9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070824135045.GH9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 8/24/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Aug 23, 2007 at 09:51:15PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > > For the September meeting I'd like to run a debate (sort of). > > > > The title of the debate is "Emacs is superior to vi". This will be a > > friendly and well natured debate on the relative merits of our favourite > > two editors. > > But of course it is. Now a real debate would be "Emacs is superior to > vim" which would be very hard to prove. :) Plain vi drives vim users > nuts too. Interestingly, I often find that I'm more apt with my use of vi than a lot of people; they apparently got used to vim, and when put on a Solaris or AIX box which actually has "Real vi," I know what to do, but they don't... Actually, I'd like to suggest that it ought NOT be obvious that vim may be counted as an instance of vi... If it is, then some arguments can be made (that don't favor vi) that cannot be made if it isn't. I don't find vi and vim to be anywhere near "the same," so it seems to me that it's a valid position to require that this debate either be "Emacs versus vi" or "Emacs versus vim," but not accept the ambiguity of "anything containing vi in its name"... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 21:22:27 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 17:22:27 -0400 Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: References: <20070824135045.GH9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070824212227.GP9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 09:01:54PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: > Interestingly, I often find that I'm more apt with my use of vi than a > lot of people; they apparently got used to vim, and when put on a > Solaris or AIX box which actually has "Real vi," I know what to do, > but they don't... > > Actually, I'd like to suggest that it ought NOT be obvious that vim > may be counted as an instance of vi... If it is, then some arguments > can be made (that don't favor vi) that cannot be made if it isn't. > > I don't find vi and vim to be anywhere near "the same," so it seems to > me that it's a valid position to require that this debate either be > "Emacs versus vi" or "Emacs versus vim," but not accept the ambiguity > of "anything containing vi in its name"... Sounds reasonable to me. vim is certainly the most advanced of all the vi style editors. It is certainly the one I use, and I get annoyed trying to deal with other vi clones due to missing things I am used to using. I can edit a file in plain vi but it isn't anywhere near as efficient. Do the different emacsen have similar issues between each other in terms of features you get used to using? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 21:37:33 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:37:33 +0000 Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: <20070824212227.GP9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070824135045.GH9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070824212227.GP9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 8/24/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 09:01:54PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: > > Interestingly, I often find that I'm more apt with my use of vi than a > > lot of people; they apparently got used to vim, and when put on a > > Solaris or AIX box which actually has "Real vi," I know what to do, > > but they don't... > > > > Actually, I'd like to suggest that it ought NOT be obvious that vim > > may be counted as an instance of vi... If it is, then some arguments > > can be made (that don't favor vi) that cannot be made if it isn't. > > > > I don't find vi and vim to be anywhere near "the same," so it seems to > > me that it's a valid position to require that this debate either be > > "Emacs versus vi" or "Emacs versus vim," but not accept the ambiguity > > of "anything containing vi in its name"... > > Sounds reasonable to me. vim is certainly the most advanced of all the > vi style editors. It is certainly the one I use, and I get annoyed > trying to deal with other vi clones due to missing things I am used to > using. I can edit a file in plain vi but it isn't anywhere near as > efficient. > > Do the different emacsen have similar issues between each other in terms > of features you get used to using? I find that any of the features I expect to have are available both with XEmacs (which I find I prefer) and GNU Emacs. But the thing is, Emacs was *intended* to be extended when Gosling and Stallman originated it. In contrast, I don't think Bill Joy intended the same for his editor, and frankly, I find it irritating when I encounter highly extended versions as they prevent staff from getting productive with the versions that they can expect on Real UNIX platforms... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 21:38:36 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 17:38:36 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46CF336C.9080708-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> <46CF32DB.6070102@utoronto.ca> <46CF336C.9080708@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <46CF4FDC.5050509@utoronto.ca> Chris Aitken wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: > > > >> Fedora 7 (not Fedora Core, just Fedora now) is very stable, I've had >> it running for a few months now (almost 3 since it was released) and >> haven't run into any problems. It's no Debian :) but it certainly does >> the job, and well. >> >> You'll want to do a clean install though, > > Oh, man, I have so many applications that were tough to install: > rosegarden, hppsc 1610 driver, and a few more... > >> upgrades between Fedora releases are notoriously variable in ease, >> most are riddled with hidden pitfalls -- your data might even get >> eaten by a grue if you aren't careful. > > I'vwe had pretty good luck with upgrades between releases. Is the one to > 7 /particularly/ bad? Take a look at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/YumUpgradeFaq, specifically the FC6 -> F7 part. Of course, any version earlier than FC6 will also suffer the same problem. From that page: "Fedora 7 replaces the old IDE subsystem with libata. Drive device names which previously started /dev/hd.. will become /dev/sd.. after the upgrade. /dev/hda1 will usually become /dev/sda1 although there may not be a direct relationship between the old and new device names, hdd will not necessarily become sdd for example." Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david-KgjyJOZJJiMsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 21:40:42 2007 From: david-KgjyJOZJJiMsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (David Payne) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:40:42 -0300 Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: References: <20070824135045.GH9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070824214041.GA17760@payneful.ca> On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 09:01:54PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: > I don't find vi and vim to be anywhere near "the same," so it seems to > me that it's a valid position to require that this debate either be > "Emacs versus vi" or "Emacs versus vim," but not accept the ambiguity > of "anything containing vi in its name"... vim can be 100% backwards compatible with vi if I remember correctly. It can even be made to act just like vi. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 21:44:26 2007 From: slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (SlackRat) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 23:44:26 +0200 Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: <20070824212227.GP9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> (Lennart Sorensen's message of "Fri\, 24 Aug 2007 17\:22\:27 -0400") References: <20070824135045.GH9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070824212227.GP9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <87fy28k3ph.fsf@azurservers.com> * lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) a ?crit profondement: | | On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 09:01:54PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: | > Interestingly, I often find that I'm more apt with my use of vi than a | > lot of people; they apparently got used to vim, and when put on a | > Solaris or AIX box which actually has "Real vi," I know what to do, | > but they don't... | > | > Actually, I'd like to suggest that it ought NOT be obvious that vim | > may be counted as an instance of vi... If it is, then some arguments | > can be made (that don't favor vi) that cannot be made if it isn't. | > | > I don't find vi and vim to be anywhere near "the same," so it seems to | > me that it's a valid position to require that this debate either be | > "Emacs versus vi" or "Emacs versus vim," but not accept the ambiguity | > of "anything containing vi in its name"... | | Sounds reasonable to me. vim is certainly the most advanced of all the | vi style editors. It is certainly the one I use, and I get annoyed | trying to deal with other vi clones due to missing things I am used to | using. I can edit a file in plain vi but it isn't anywhere near as | efficient. | | Do the different emacsen have similar issues between each other in terms | of features you get used to using? | The versions stay mostly compatible. I find that the thing that irks me the most is the difference between the CLI and X11 functionality. -- SlackRat - No fsck-U to Reply -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 25 02:25:05 2007 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:25:05 -0400 Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: References: <20070824135045.GH9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070825022505.GA7086@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 09:01:54PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 8/24/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > But of course it is. Now a real debate would be "Emacs is superior > > to vim" which would be very hard to prove. :) Plain vi drives vim > > users nuts too. > > Interestingly, I often find that I'm more apt with my use of vi than a > lot of people; they apparently got used to vim, and when put on a > Solaris or AIX box which actually has "Real vi," I know what to do, > but they don't... > > Actually, I'd like to suggest that it ought NOT be obvious that vim > may be counted as an instance of vi... If it is, then some arguments > can be made (that don't favor vi) that cannot be made if it isn't. > > I don't find vi and vim to be anywhere near "the same," so it seems to > me that it's a valid position to require that this debate either be > "Emacs versus vi" or "Emacs versus vim," but not accept the ambiguity > of "anything containing vi in its name"... Vim is superset of Vi, which can be seen by moving ~/.vimrc to something else. "Vi" really shines when used for command-line editing, especially on slow remote terminal. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 25 02:31:15 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:31:15 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <20070824195403.GN9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> <20070824191930.GM9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF31AD.6000801@chrisaitken.net> <20070824195403.GN9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <46CF9473.6060405@chrisaitken.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 03:29:49PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > > >>Okay, I want upgrade to F7. I have found all kinds of erositories with >>DVD ISO but none with the CD ISO... >> >> > >Can't you just upgrade over the internet? Doesn't all distributions do >that these days? > > yum install fedora 7? Chris >-- >Len Sorensen > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 25 02:38:17 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:38:17 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46CF9473.6060405-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> <20070824191930.GM9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF31AD.6000801@chrisaitken.net> <20070824195403.GN9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF9473.6060405@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <46CF9619.5070505@chrisaitken.net> Chris Aitken wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 03:29:49PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: >> >> >>> Okay, I want upgrade to F7. I have found all kinds of repositories >>> with DVD ISO but none with the CD ISO... >> I found out that to install fedora 7 from CD you must do it from the live CD. There is no ISO on CD. Only DVD now. I have a Creative PC-DVD Dxr2. I'm pretty sire it's a DVD drive but not a burner. The problem, it is said, with installing from the live CD is that you get a bare bones installation. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 25 02:48:59 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:48:59 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46CF9619.5070505-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> <20070824191930.GM9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF31AD.6000801@chrisaitken.net> <20070824195403.GN9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF9473.6060405@chrisaitken.net> <46CF9619.5070505@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <46CF989B.6060207@chrisaitken.net> Chris Aitken wrote: > Chris Aitken wrote: > >> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 03:29:49PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Okay, I want upgrade to F7. I have found all kinds of repositories >>>> with DVD ISO but none with the CD ISO... >>> >>> > I found out that to install fedora 7 from CD you must do it from the > live CD. There is no ISO on CD. Only DVD now. I have a Creative PC-DVD > Dxr2. I'm pretty sire it's a DVD drive but not a burner. The problem, > it is said, with installing from the live CD is that you get a bare > bones installation. I guess I'll have to buy a DVD burner. They're about 80 bucks in Timmins. I saw an ACER AT180 at the Source for 400-something bucks - tempting - but I read on the net that it's loud - won't do for me in my recording studio. What I like about my Compaq Deskpro EN is that it is so quiet. I wish I could get a quiet box with a little faster processor... Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 25 03:01:23 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 23:01:23 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46CF989B.6060207-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> <20070824191930.GM9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF31AD.6000801@chrisaitken.net> <20070824195403.GN9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF9473.6060405@chrisaitken.net> <46CF9619.5070505@chrisaitken.net> <46CF989B.6060207@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20070825030123.GQ9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 10:48:59PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > I guess I'll have to buy a DVD burner. They're about 80 bucks in > Timmins. I saw an ACER AT180 at the Source for 400-something bucks - > tempting - but I read on the net that it's loud - won't do for me in my > recording studio. What I like about my Compaq Deskpro EN is that it is > so quiet. I wish I could get a quiet box with a little faster processor... Wow around here pioneer and LG and such dvd burners go for $35 to $40. A plextor might set you back $120 or so. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 25 03:15:51 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 23:15:51 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46CF9619.5070505-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> <20070824191930.GM9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF31AD.6000801@chrisaitken.net> <20070824195403.GN9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF9473.6060405@chrisaitken.net> <46CF9619.5070505@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <46CF9EE7.6040001@utoronto.ca> Chris Aitken wrote: > Chris Aitken wrote: > >> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 03:29:49PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Okay, I want upgrade to F7. I have found all kinds of repositories >>>> with DVD ISO but none with the CD ISO... >>> > I found out that to install fedora 7 from CD you must do it from the > live CD. There is no ISO on CD. Only DVD now. I have a Creative PC-DVD > Dxr2. I'm pretty sire it's a DVD drive but not a burner. The problem, it > is said, with installing from the live CD is that you get a bare bones > installation. Take your pick of Gnome livecd download methods: http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//Fedora-7-Live-i686.torrent http://fedora.mirror.iweb.ca/releases/7/Live/i386/Fedora-7-Live-i686.iso Either will do (same iso), and will fit on a 700mb CD. It is a livecd and has an installer included. Or are you a KDE user? http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//Fedora-7-KDE-Live-i686.torrent http://fedora.mirror.iweb.ca/releases/7/Live/i386/Fedora-7-KDE-Live-i686.iso Same as above, download, burn, run, install, enjoy. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 25 06:28:00 2007 From: drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Phillip Erwin) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 01:28:00 -0500 Subject: Your Mer1dia 0rder #8867587 Message-ID: We have everything you need: Phenterm1ne, Cial1s S0ft T4bs, V1agra S0ft T4bs, Cial1s, V1agra, Lev1tra, Propec1a, Val1um, Xan4x, Amb1en, Zyb4n, Atar4x, At1van, Car1soma, Ultr4m, Glucoph4ge, Lip1tor, Mer1dia, Zoc0r, N0rvasc, Prov1gil/Modaf1nil, Zol0ft, V1agra Oral Gel. We respect your privacy - we guarantee you a total anonymity of your 0rder and lowest prices. Visit US He4lthc4re Inc. online at: http://www.aaskwlmm.com/ If you want to be excluded from th1s ma1ling http://www.aaskwlmm.com/m0veme/ We will process your request in 48hr's -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 25 13:29:58 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 09:29:58 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46CF989B.6060207-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> <20070824191930.GM9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF31AD.6000801@chrisaitken.net> <20070824195403.GN9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF9473.6060405@chrisaitken.net> <46CF9619.5070505@chrisaitken.net> <46CF989B.6060207@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <46D02ED6.6080107@chrisaitken.net> Chris Aitken wrote: > Chris Aitken wrote: > >> Chris Aitken wrote: >> >>> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> >>>> On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 03:29:49PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Okay, I want upgrade to F7. I have found all kinds of repositories >>>>> with DVD ISO but none with the CD ISO... >>>> >>>> >>>> >> I found out that to install fedora 7 from CD you must do it from the >> live CD. There is no ISO on CD. Only DVD now. I have a Creative >> PC-DVD Dxr2. I'm pretty sire it's a DVD drive but not a burner. > Can I tell from the name if that is a burner or just a drive? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 25 13:37:06 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 09:37:06 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46D02ED6.6080107-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> <20070824191930.GM9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF31AD.6000801@chrisaitken.net> <20070824195403.GN9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF9473.6060405@chrisaitken.net> <46CF9619.5070505@chrisaitken.net> <46CF989B.6060207@chrisaitken.net> <46D02ED6.6080107@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <46D03082.1030504@chrisaitken.net> Chris Aitken wrote: >>> I found out that to install fedora 7 from CD you must do it from the >>> live CD. There is no ISO on CD. Only DVD now. I have a Creative >>> PC-DVD Dxr2. I'm pretty sire it's a DVD drive but not a burner. >> >> > Can I tell from the name if that is a burner or just a drive? Never mind - I see in Hardware Browser it's CREATIVE DVD-ROM DVD 2240E. So, it's Read-Only Memory. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 25 13:39:19 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 09:39:19 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <20070825030123.GQ9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> <20070824191930.GM9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF31AD.6000801@chrisaitken.net> <20070824195403.GN9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF9473.6060405@chrisaitken.net> <46CF9619.5070505@chrisaitken.net> <46CF989B.6060207@chrisaitken.net> <20070825030123.GQ9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <46D03107.1040909@chrisaitken.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 10:48:59PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > > >>I guess I'll have to buy a DVD burner. They're about 80 bucks in >>Timmins. I saw an ACER AT180 at the Source for 400-something bucks - >>tempting - but I read on the net that it's loud - won't do for me in my >>recording studio. What I like about my Compaq Deskpro EN is that it is >>so quiet. I wish I could get a quiet box with a little faster processor... >> >> > >Wow around here pioneer and LG and such dvd burners go for $35 to $40. >A plextor might set you back $120 or so. > > Maybe I'll look a little harder. We have a Krazy Krazy, Staples, Source, and a couple of small computer stores. I guess CD/DVD RW would be best. Chris >-- >Len Sorensen > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 25 13:43:32 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 09:43:32 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46CF9EE7.6040001-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> <20070824191930.GM9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF31AD.6000801@chrisaitken.net> <20070824195403.GN9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF9473.6060405@chrisaitken.net> <46CF9619.5070505@chrisaitken.net> <46CF9EE7.6040001@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <46D03204.7080505@chrisaitken.net> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Take your pick of Gnome livecd download methods: > > http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//Fedora-7-Live-i686.torrent > http://fedora.mirror.iweb.ca/releases/7/Live/i386/Fedora-7-Live-i686.iso Okay, I'm downloading that one now. The live CD will give me a bare bones installation. I'll also look into getting a CD/DVD RW today. Then I can do the full installation. I might even try the upgrade first - if it pooches everything then I can so the clean install. Chris > > Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 25 22:07:16 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:07:16 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46D03204.7080505-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> <20070824191930.GM9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF31AD.6000801@chrisaitken.net> <20070824195403.GN9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF9473.6060405@chrisaitken.net> <46CF9619.5070505@chrisaitken.net> <46CF9EE7.6040001@utoronto.ca> <46D03204.7080505@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <46D0A814.7020505@chrisaitken.net> Chris Aitken wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: > > > >> Take your pick of Gnome livecd download methods: >> >> http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//Fedora-7-Live-i686.torrent >> http://fedora.mirror.iweb.ca/releases/7/Live/i386/Fedora-7-Live-i686.iso > > > Okay, I'm downloading that one now. The live CD will give me a bare > bones installation. I'll also look into getting a CD/DVD RW today. I just bought a DVD burner. I asked if it was a normal IDE drive. He said yes. I just opened it up. It doesn't look like an IDE drive. No teeth for data, no molex connector for power. what is this? LG GSA H62 N Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 25 22:19:07 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:19:07 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46D0A814.7020505-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> <20070824191930.GM9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF31AD.6000801@chrisaitken.net> <20070824195403.GN9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF9473.6060405@chrisaitken.net> <46CF9619.5070505@chrisaitken.net> <46CF9EE7.6040001@utoronto.ca> <46D03204.7080505@chrisaitken.net> <46D0A814.7020505@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <46D0AADB.5010400@utoronto.ca> Chris Aitken wrote: > Chris Aitken wrote: > >> Jamon Camisso wrote: >> >> >> >>> Take your pick of Gnome livecd download methods: >>> >>> http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//Fedora-7-Live-i686.torrent >>> http://fedora.mirror.iweb.ca/releases/7/Live/i386/Fedora-7-Live-i686.iso >> >> >> Okay, I'm downloading that one now. The live CD will give me a bare >> bones installation. I'll also look into getting a CD/DVD RW today. > > I just bought a DVD burner. I asked if it was a normal IDE drive. He > said yes. I just opened it up. It doesn't look like an IDE drive. No > teeth for data, no molex connector for power. what is this? > > LG GSA H62 N That's an SATA burner, as are most newer drives: http://ca.lge.com/en/products/model/detail/dvdwriter_gsah62n.jhtml So if you asked for an IDE DVD burner, the salesperson either made a mistake or misled you. Hopefully the former, though in that case one has to wonder at the competence of said salesperson. Hopefully it isn't the latter... You should be able to go back and ask for an exchange. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 25 22:22:35 2007 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:22:35 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46D0A814.7020505-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> <20070824191930.GM9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF31AD.6000801@chrisaitken.net> <20070824195403.GN9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF9473.6060405@chrisaitken.net> <46CF9619.5070505@chrisaitken.net> <46CF9EE7.6040001@utoronto.ca> <46D03204.7080505@chrisaitken.net> <46D0A814.7020505@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <46D0ABAB.6070906@golden.net> Chris Aitken wrote: > Chris Aitken wrote: > >> Jamon Camisso wrote: >> >> >> >>> Take your pick of Gnome livecd download methods: >>> >>> http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//Fedora-7-Live-i686.torrent >>> http://fedora.mirror.iweb.ca/releases/7/Live/i386/Fedora-7-Live-i686.iso >>> >> >> >> Okay, I'm downloading that one now. The live CD will give me a bare >> bones installation. I'll also look into getting a CD/DVD RW today. > > I just bought a DVD burner. I asked if it was a normal IDE drive. He > said yes. I just opened it up. It doesn't look like an IDE drive. No > teeth for data, no molex connector for power. what is this? > > LG GSA H62 N > > Chris > > It's SATA and you should have bought GSA-H54 which is IDE. Take it back. I'm glad you bought a DVD burner instead of a CD burner. Much better choice. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 25 22:23:06 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:23:06 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46D0AADB.5010400-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> <20070824191930.GM9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF31AD.6000801@chrisaitken.net> <20070824195403.GN9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF9473.6060405@chrisaitken.net> <46CF9619.5070505@chrisaitken.net> <46CF9EE7.6040001@utoronto.ca> <46D03204.7080505@chrisaitken.net> <46D0A814.7020505@chrisaitken.net> <46D0AADB.5010400@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <46D0ABCA.6080804@utoronto.ca> Jamon Camisso wrote: >> I just bought a DVD burner. I asked if it was a normal IDE drive. He >> said yes. I just opened it up. It doesn't look like an IDE drive. No >> teeth for data, no molex connector for power. what is this? >> >> LG GSA H62 N > > That's an SATA burner, as are most newer drives: > http://ca.lge.com/en/products/model/detail/dvdwriter_gsah62n.jhtml > > So if you asked for an IDE DVD burner, the salesperson either made a > mistake or misled you. Hopefully the former, though in that case one has > to wonder at the competence of said salesperson. Hopefully it isn't the > latter... > > You should be able to go back and ask for an exchange. Note I'm assuming you don't want an SATA drive, or don't have an SATA port(s) on your motherboard. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 25 22:57:42 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:57:42 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46D0ABCA.6080804-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070817183237.1945.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817184133.21437.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817185137.11735.qmail@mail.vianet.ca> <20070817214719.GS9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> <20070824191930.GM9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF31AD.6000801@chrisaitken.net> <20070824195403.GN9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF9473.6060405@chrisaitken.net> <46CF9619.5070505@chrisaitken.net> <46CF9EE7.6040001@utoronto.ca> <46D03204.7080505@chrisaitken.net> <46D0A814.7020505@chrisaitken.net> <46D0AADB.5010400@utoronto.ca> <46D0ABCA.6080804@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <46D0B3E6.4050405@chrisaitken.net> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Note I'm assuming you don't want an SATA drive, or don't have an SATA > port(s) on your motherboard. I doubt it. It's a Compaq Deskpro EN. PIII 733. I assune that SATA is an improvement over IDE. I'm used to two drives jumpered master/slave. Chris > > Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 26 00:13:04 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 20:13:04 -0400 Subject: remote solar/wind power for an embedded system Message-ID: Anyone have recommendations for a remote power system. This could include a solar cell, battery, and or small turbine to provide power for a remote sensing embedded linux device. The device itself requires approx 10 watts to run. Additionally I need power to run a wifi or satellite modem. Apparently there is some literature out of Algonquin College. I have found some thermostatically (hot and cold ) controlled NEMA weather proof boxes. This is probably a requirement as well. Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 26 01:32:21 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 21:32:21 -0400 Subject: Can't install Gentoo linux on Dell Inspiron 530 In-Reply-To: <20070824031109.GB5688-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070824031109.GB5688@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20070826013221.GB8786@waltdnes.org> I at least have the keyboard functioning properly. The boot line is gentoo noapic irqpoll acpi=force I found this via Google, where someone had a similar problem under Slax. The busybox shell doesn't have fdisk or lspci. I want to be able to run "fdisk -l" and "lspci -v", to find out what exactly the install sees. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 26 14:57:42 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 10:57:42 -0400 Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <46D02ED6.6080107-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <46CF11D8.3090603@chrisaitken.net> <46CF190F.3090607@utoronto.ca> <46CF2B19.5000207@chrisaitken.net> <20070824191930.GM9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF31AD.6000801@chrisaitken.net> <20070824195403.GN9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CF9473.6060405@chrisaitken.net> <46CF9619.5070505@chrisaitken.net> <46CF989B.6060207@chrisaitken.net> <46D02ED6.6080107@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20070826145742.GR9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Aug 25, 2007 at 09:29:58AM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > Can I tell from the name if that is a burner or just a drive? I am not sure you can buy anything that isn't a burner anymore. But the name usually gives a good idea. And what you want is a computer store, not a place like staples or futureshop. You just want an OEM drive by itself. No packageing, no software, etc. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 26 16:27:21 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 12:27:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: E-MU 1212 M PCI card In-Reply-To: <20070826145742.GR9411-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070826145742.GR9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <660584.15491.qm@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Aug 25, 2007 at 09:29:58AM -0400, Chris > Aitken wrote: > > Can I tell from the name if that is a burner or > just a drive? > > I am not sure you can buy anything that isn't a > burner anymore. But the > name usually gives a good idea. Canada Computers sells 5 models of DVD reader only drives on their website. I can see some security paranoid businesses / government departments not permitting any sort of removable writable media capable drives be installed. I do think that non-burning drives may become something of a specialty item though... > And what you want is a computer store, not a place > like staples or > futureshop. You just want an OEM drive by itself. > No packageing, no > software, etc. :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 26 17:30:55 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:30:55 -0400 Subject: lost the "crunch" Message-ID: <46D1B8CF.4040400@chrisaitken.net> It's been a long time since I've crimped an RJ-45 onto cat 5 cable. I'm not getting any data through the finished ethernet cable. I have the colours correct: w-gr, gr, w-or, bl, w-bl, or, w-br, br (left to right from pin 1 as you are looking at the side without the clip). I'm just not getting that "crunch" I used to get when crimping. Any ideas. I'll just keep trying to get that crunching feeling back while I await response... Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 26 17:39:09 2007 From: sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Steve Harvey) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:39:09 -0400 Subject: lost the "crunch" In-Reply-To: <46D1B8CF.4040400-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <46D1B8CF.4040400@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20070826173909.GG38056@shell.vex.net> On Sun, Aug 26, 2007 at 01:30:55PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > It's been a long time since I've crimped an RJ-45 onto cat 5 cable. I'm > not getting any data through the finished ethernet cable. I have the > colours correct: w-gr, gr, w-or, bl, w-bl, or, w-br, br (left to right > from pin 1 as you are looking at the side without the clip). I'm just > not getting that "crunch" I used to get when crimping. > > Any ideas. I'll just keep trying to get that crunching feeling back > while I await response... > http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/ethernetcables.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 26 17:42:58 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:42:58 -0400 Subject: lost the "crunch" In-Reply-To: <20070826173909.GG38056-bEteefDXIgtmcu3hnIyYJQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46D1B8CF.4040400@chrisaitken.net> <20070826173909.GG38056@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: <46D1BBA2.1010201@chrisaitken.net> Steve Harvey wrote: > On Sun, Aug 26, 2007 at 01:30:55PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > >> It's been a long time since I've crimped an RJ-45 onto cat 5 cable. I'm >> not getting any data through the finished ethernet cable. I have the >> colours correct: w-gr, gr, w-or, bl, w-bl, or, w-br, br (left to right >> from pin 1 as you are looking at the side without the clip). I'm just >> not getting that "crunch" I used to get when crimping. >> >> Any ideas. I'll just keep trying to get that crunching feeling back >> while I await response... >> >> > http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/ethernetcables.html > Thanks. That's a nice site. All the information is there - clean diagrams - all in one page. I'm OK now. I never did hear the crunch but the cables working now. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 26 17:59:46 2007 From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:59:46 -0400 Subject: OT-Repurposing PDAs Message-ID: <20070826135946.de74uqshajtw0g88@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> Hi all, As part of my effort to get rid of old clutter, I've come across a couple of dead PDAs. I hate the idea of them going to waste, but I have a working PDA solution right now, so I'd like to repurpose them. Unfortunately, I appear to have a case of Maker's Block, so I'd appreciate any suggestions for what I could use the following for instead of as a PDA: -Palm M130 (Screen is signifigantly scratched, internal battery is shot) -Cassiopeia (Can't remember which model I have, but I think it's the older one; also, I think I got rid of the dock) -Sharp EL-6890 (256kb Electronic organizer, battery dead) -Sharp ZQ-3000 (32 kb Electronic organizer, battery dead) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 26 18:02:02 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 14:02:02 -0400 Subject: lost the "crunch" In-Reply-To: <46D1B8CF.4040400-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <46D1B8CF.4040400@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <46D1C01A.4090109@rogers.com> Chris Aitken wrote: > It's been a long time since I've crimped an RJ-45 onto cat 5 cable. I'm > not getting any data through the finished ethernet cable. I have the > colours correct: w-gr, gr, w-or, bl, w-bl, or, w-br, br (left to right > from pin 1 as you are looking at the side without the clip). I'm just > not getting that "crunch" I used to get when crimping. > > Any ideas. I'll just keep trying to get that crunching feeling back > while I await response... > Can you see that the pins are in fact pushed down into the wires? Do you get continuity on any of the wires? Is it a good crimper that you've used before? Without actually seeing a connector, it's hard to guess. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 26 18:16:30 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 14:16:30 -0400 Subject: lost the "crunch" In-Reply-To: <20070826173909.GG38056-bEteefDXIgtmcu3hnIyYJQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46D1B8CF.4040400@chrisaitken.net> <20070826173909.GG38056@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: <46D1C37E.8080708@rogers.com> Steve Harvey wrote: > http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/ethernetcables.html > I got a chuckle from a couple of lines "+Note: The cross over cable layout is suitable for 1000Base-T operation, all 4 pairs are crossed." Last I heard, gigabit doesn't care about cross over or not, as all 4 pairs are bi-directional. "Cut the cable to length - make sure it is more than long enough for your needs. Remember, an end to end connection should not extend more than 100m (~328ft). Try to keep cables short, the longer the cable becomes the more it may affect performance, usually noticable as a gradual decrease in speed and increase in latency." It's take a very long cable to make much of a difference in latency. The speed of light in a vacuum is 300M / uS. The velocity factor of cable is in the vicinity of 0.70 so that would work out to over 200M /uS in cable or 0.5 uS for 100M. You'd be hard pressed to find a networking situation, where a latency on the order of 1 uS would be significant. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 26 19:02:32 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 15:02:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT-Repurposing PDAs In-Reply-To: <20070826135946.de74uqshajtw0g88-lGUHJOqNqQhyLmsWvbx5QJQhnBGJm0FR@public.gmane.org> References: <20070826135946.de74uqshajtw0g88@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> Message-ID: <946282.7199.qm@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hi all, > > As part of my effort to get rid of old clutter, I've > come across a > couple of dead PDAs. I hate the idea of them going > to waste, but I > have a working PDA solution right now, so I'd like > to repurpose them. > Unfortunately, I appear to have a case of Maker's > Block, so I'd > appreciate any suggestions for what I could use the > following for > instead of as a PDA: > > -Palm M130 (Screen is signifigantly scratched, > internal battery is shot) For the Palm at least, have a look at: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~reshko/PILOT/ Basically use Palm as the brains for a SMALL robot... > -Cassiopeia (Can't remember which model I have, but > I think it's the > older one; also, I think I got rid of the dock) > -Sharp EL-6890 (256kb Electronic organizer, battery > dead) > -Sharp ZQ-3000 (32 kb Electronic organizer, battery > dead) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 26 20:33:07 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:33:07 -0400 Subject: restoring mail file in thunderbird Message-ID: <46D1E383.70904@chrisaitken.net> I just did a clean install of fedora 7. I used scp to copy my mail file from a backup computer. I changed the permissions. I created a new account and pointed the server to that (/home/chris/docs2bckup/mymail). I reload thunderbird but still no mail. Interestingly one (and only one) folder shows up (a folder named "holding" that I had set message filters to send junk mail to). Why is this so difficult? I've done this from version to version before... Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 26 20:36:48 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:36:48 -0400 Subject: restoring mail file in thunderbird In-Reply-To: <46D1E383.70904-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <46D1E383.70904@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <46D1E460.3000401@chrisaitken.net> Chris Aitken wrote: > I just did a clean install of fedora 7. I used scp to copy my mail > file from a backup computer. I changed the permissions. I created a > new account and pointed the server to that > (/home/chris/docs2bckup/mymail). I reload thunderbird but still no > mail. Interestingly one (and only one) folder shows up (a folder named > "holding" that I had set message filters to send junk mail to). Why is > this so difficult? I've done this from version to version before... Also, thunderbird is defaulting to go to the Local Folders account (I never really did understand the "special" Local Folders account). THe acount I want to get to is chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org - it shows up in properties but when I open thunderbird I am in Local Folders... > > Chris > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 26 20:41:17 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:41:17 -0400 Subject: restoring mail file in thunderbird In-Reply-To: <46D1E383.70904-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <46D1E383.70904@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <46D1E56D.5080509@utoronto.ca> Chris Aitken wrote: > I just did a clean install of fedora 7. I used scp to copy my mail file > from a backup computer. I changed the permissions. I created a new > account and pointed the server to that (/home/chris/docs2bckup/mymail). > I reload thunderbird but still no mail. Interestingly one (and only one) > folder shows up (a folder named "holding" that I had set message filters > to send junk mail to). Why is this so difficult? I've done this from > version to version before... Thunderbird uses a ~/.thunderbird or ~/.mozilla-thunderbird directory for its settings, extensions, and most importantly, mbox (I think that's the format) files. You might want to wipe out the new .thunderbird or whatever it is and copy a copy of your backup into its place. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 26 20:39:54 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:39:54 -0400 Subject: restoring mail file in thunderbird In-Reply-To: <46D1E460.3000401-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <46D1E383.70904@chrisaitken.net> <46D1E460.3000401@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <46D1E51A.2030708@chrisaitken.net> Chris Aitken wrote: > Chris Aitken wrote: >> I just did a clean install of fedora 7. I used scp to copy my mail >> file from a backup computer. I changed the permissions. I created a >> new account and pointed the server to that >> (/home/chris/docs2bckup/mymail). I reload thunderbird but still no >> mail. Interestingly one (and only one) folder shows up (a folder >> named "holding" that I had set message filters to send junk mail to). >> Why is this so difficult? I've done this from version to version >> before... > Also, thunderbird is defaulting to go to the Local Folders account (I > never really did understand the "special" Local Folders account). The > acount I want to get to is chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org - it shows up in > properties but when I open thunderbird I am in Local Folders... And I notice that I was getting two of every email for a while - not now but for a while... >> >> Chris >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 26 20:41:55 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:41:55 -0400 Subject: restoring mail file in thunderbird In-Reply-To: <46D1E460.3000401-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <46D1E383.70904@chrisaitken.net> <46D1E460.3000401@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <46D1E593.7050708@chrisaitken.net> Chris Aitken wrote: > Chris Aitken wrote: >> I just did a clean install of fedora 7. I used scp to copy my mail >> file from a backup computer. I changed the permissions. I created a >> new account and pointed the server to that >> (/home/chris/docs2bckup/mymail). I reload thunderbird but still no >> mail. Interestingly one (and only one) folder shows up (a folder >> named "holding" that I had set message filters to send junk mail to). >> Why is this so difficult? I've done this from version to version >> before... > Also, thunderbird is defaulting to go to the Local Folders account (I > never really did understand the "special" Local Folders account). THe > acount I want to get to is chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org - it shows up in > properties but when I open thunderbird I am in Local Folders... Would I be better to simply copy the contents of my mail folder into Local Folders? >> >> Chris >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 26 20:53:42 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:53:42 -0400 Subject: restoring mail file in thunderbird In-Reply-To: <46D1E56D.5080509-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <46D1E383.70904@chrisaitken.net> <46D1E56D.5080509@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <46D1E856.6060302@chrisaitken.net> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Chris Aitken wrote: >> I just did a clean install of fedora 7. I used scp to copy my mail >> file from a backup computer. I changed the permissions. I created a >> new account and pointed the server to that >> (/home/chris/docs2bckup/mymail). I reload thunderbird but still no >> mail. Interestingly one (and only one) folder shows up (a folder >> named "holding" that I had set message filters to send junk mail to). >> Why is this so difficult? I've done this from version to version >> before... > > Thunderbird uses a ~/.thunderbird or ~/.mozilla-thunderbird directory > for its settings, extensions, and most importantly, mbox (I think > that's the format) files. > > You might want to wipe out the new .thunderbird or whatever it is and > copy a copy of your backup into its place. Okay - I was hoping to do it the way I have in the past. I had everything I want to backup (including my mail file) in one directory - so everything (not just mail) was really easy to backup with a single scp command. i could change that but then backups will be tougher (not just to do, but to think about). The way I had it was just by pointing the new thunderbird account to the old file in this one tobebackedup directory. It ain't working this time. The mail file was from an older FC so I'm not sure if that's part of the problem. Chris > > Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 26 22:35:13 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 18:35:13 -0400 Subject: lost the "crunch" In-Reply-To: <46D1BBA2.1010201-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <46D1B8CF.4040400@chrisaitken.net> <20070826173909.GG38056@shell.vex.net> <46D1BBA2.1010201@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <1188167713.5277.70.camel@stan64.site> i always thought the 200$ tool was a huge rip off, but it worked and i got the crunch, when i got the sayal's electronics 30$ special it works, but no crunch. if you need the crunch pay the extra 170$, or sit on a few flakes of captain crunch when you clutch and crimp :) for the effect. i think the 200$ one has some leverage thing happening , and a ratchet too. -tl On Sun, 2007-08-26 at 13:42 -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > Steve Harvey wrote: > > On Sun, Aug 26, 2007 at 01:30:55PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > > > >> It's been a long time since I've crimped an RJ-45 onto cat 5 cable. I'm > >> not getting any data through the finished ethernet cable. I have the > >> colours correct: w-gr, gr, w-or, bl, w-bl, or, w-br, br (left to right > >> from pin 1 as you are looking at the side without the clip). I'm just > >> not getting that "crunch" I used to get when crimping. > >> > >> Any ideas. I'll just keep trying to get that crunching feeling back > >> while I await response... > >> > >> > > http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/ethernetcables.html > > > Thanks. That's a nice site. All the information is there - clean > diagrams - all in one page. I'm OK now. I never did hear the crunch but > the cables working now. > > Chris > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 00:55:22 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:55:22 -0400 Subject: lost the "crunch" In-Reply-To: <1188167713.5277.70.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <46D1B8CF.4040400@chrisaitken.net> <20070826173909.GG38056@shell.vex.net> <46D1BBA2.1010201@chrisaitken.net> <1188167713.5277.70.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <46D220FA.8000709@chrisaitken.net> tleslie wrote: > i always thought the 200$ tool was a huge rip off, but it worked and i > got the crunch, > when i got the sayal's electronics 30$ special > it works, but no crunch. > > if you need the crunch pay the extra 170$, > or sit on a few flakes of captain crunch when you > clutch and crimp :) for the effect. > Maybe the crunch is in the crimper not the RJ-45. It could have been the first four notes of Beethoven's Fifth Syymphony but they went for the crunch. :) Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 01:44:40 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 21:44:40 -0400 Subject: restore thunderbird mail file Message-ID: <46D22C88.6000701@chrisaitken.net> Sorry for starting a new thread (if the name is not exactly the same). I'm have email trouble. I was able to do the restore the way I want on a test file. It's an older version of the mail file. What I noticed about that mail file (mail.old) is that for each folder therein is a Mailbox file (whatever), a C source code (whatever.msf) and a folder (whatever.sbd). However, for the file I want to restore (mail.new) there is no Mailbox file (only the other two) for each folder I created. The only folders for which there is a Mailbox file, are things like Trash, Inbox - folders generated by the system. The only one that I created that has a Mailbox file is "holding" probably only because that is for the Message Filter (so, after I create it I guess i's a system file). So, where do I go from here? I guess, for some reason, that when I've been doing backup in the last six months, the Mailbox files have not been copying over. Or maybe it's because that new mail file was one I created in Thunderbird (not an import from an older system). Can I create Mailbox files for each of my .sbd/.msf pairs? Sounds tedious. But possible? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 26 18:38:17 2007 From: tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 14:38:17 -0400 Subject: lost the "crunch" In-Reply-To: <46D1B8CF.4040400-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <46D1B8CF.4040400@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20070826183817.GB24797@thecat.localnet> Hi Chris, On Sun, Aug 26, 2007 at 01:30:55PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > It's been a long time since I've crimped an RJ-45 onto cat 5 cable. I'm > not getting any data through the finished ethernet cable. I have the > colours correct: w-gr, gr, w-or, bl, w-bl, or, w-br, br (left to right > from pin 1 as you are looking at the side without the clip). I'm just > not getting that "crunch" I used to get when crimping. > > Any ideas. I'll just keep trying to get that crunching feeling back > while I await response... One thing I learned the hard way was the importance of using a good quality crimping tool. I originally bought one of the $29 "kits" that included the crimping tool plus a two part cable tester. My failure rate was around 30% (which I attributed to just being clumsy with tools). I finally broke down and bought a half decent crimper for about $75 and have not had one bad crimp since! (Note that you can go well into the hundreds of dollars for professional level crimpers.) The good thing that came out of the cheapie kit was the tester. I.ve found it very useful for testing for bad connections/crimps and for confirming straight vs cross-over cables. Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 03:37:58 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 23:37:58 -0400 Subject: OT-Repurposing PDAs In-Reply-To: <20070826135946.de74uqshajtw0g88-lGUHJOqNqQhyLmsWvbx5QJQhnBGJm0FR@public.gmane.org> References: <20070826135946.de74uqshajtw0g88@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> Message-ID: On 8/26/07, matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hi all, > > As part of my effort to get rid of old clutter, I've come across a > couple of dead PDAs. I hate the idea of them going to waste, but I > have a working PDA solution right now, so I'd like to repurpose them. > Unfortunately, I appear to have a case of Maker's Block, so I'd > appreciate any suggestions for what I could use the following for > instead of as a PDA: > > -Palm M130 (Screen is signifigantly scratched, internal battery is shot) > -Cassiopeia (Can't remember which model I have, but I think it's the > older one; also, I think I got rid of the dock) > -Sharp EL-6890 (256kb Electronic organizer, battery dead) > -Sharp ZQ-3000 (32 kb Electronic organizer, battery dead) These sorts of things are very much purpose-built; repurposing them to new applications is highly unlikely to be worthwhile. - Getting them to function as what they were designed to be is likely to cost more than they did (e.g. - replacing batteries that are likely no longer manufactured for a PDA that is no longer manufactured). - Turning them into an "embedded platform" is likely also to be quite unsuitable; if you need something for embedding, you're much better off buying a board with either an IA-32 or xScale processor new that actually satisfies the needs. Generally speaking, computer hardware is now *so* cheap that it is virtually impossible for fixing it to be of more monetary value than just buying a new one. New disk drives are spectacularly cheaper, per GB, than earlier generations. Likewise RAM chips. Likewise Flash storage. Time being money, at some level, if it takes more than a couple hours to "repurpose" one of these PDAs, you're *way* better off buying new hardware unless some very peculiar circumstances are true, where somehow, your time is, strangely, NOT of any value to you. It's something of a shame that this hardware is so obsolete that it's essentially worthless. Except when you consider that part of the reason for that is that newer, spectacularly more powerful stuff is now cheap. Life's short enough that I decline to have too much regret for this... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 04:34:41 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 00:34:41 -0400 Subject: OT-Repurposing PDAs In-Reply-To: References: <20070826135946.de74uqshajtw0g88@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> Message-ID: <46D25461.5050500@utoronto.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 8/26/07, matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> As part of my effort to get rid of old clutter, I've come across a >> couple of dead PDAs. I hate the idea of them going to waste, but I >> have a working PDA solution right now, so I'd like to repurpose them. >> Unfortunately, I appear to have a case of Maker's Block, so I'd >> appreciate any suggestions for what I could use the following for >> instead of as a PDA: >> >> -Palm M130 (Screen is signifigantly scratched, internal battery is shot) >> -Cassiopeia (Can't remember which model I have, but I think it's the >> older one; also, I think I got rid of the dock) >> -Sharp EL-6890 (256kb Electronic organizer, battery dead) >> -Sharp ZQ-3000 (32 kb Electronic organizer, battery dead) > > These sorts of things are very much purpose-built; repurposing them to > new applications is highly unlikely to be worthwhile. > > - Getting them to function as what they were designed to be is likely > to cost more than they did (e.g. - replacing batteries that are likely > no longer manufactured for a PDA that is no longer manufactured). > > - Turning them into an "embedded platform" is likely also to be quite > unsuitable; if you need something for embedding, you're much better > off buying a board with either an IA-32 or xScale processor new that > actually satisfies the needs. > > Generally speaking, computer hardware is now *so* cheap that it is > virtually impossible for fixing it to be of more monetary value than > just buying a new one. New disk drives are spectacularly cheaper, per > GB, than earlier generations. Likewise RAM chips. Likewise Flash > storage. > > Time being money, at some level, if it takes more than a couple hours > to "repurpose" one of these PDAs, you're *way* better off buying new > hardware unless some very peculiar circumstances are true, where > somehow, your time is, strangely, NOT of any value to you. Time may not be, but I think we all value the environment to some degree or another -- it's of value to all of us. Even the Government of Canada agrees, and that was in 2003: http://www.ec.gc.ca/envirozine/english/issues/33/feature1_e.cfm I can't imagine the e-waste we're generating has been reduced between now and then, so the issue remains. > It's something of a shame that this hardware is so obsolete that it's > essentially worthless. Except when you consider that part of the > reason for that is that newer, spectacularly more powerful stuff is > now cheap. Life's short enough that I decline to have too much regret > for this... It isn't necessarily worthless, just look at the prosperity of the Chinese city of Guiyu, which is a major electronics recycling and reclamation center. Someone there thinks there's value and derives a profit recycling our obsolete electronic goods. Albeit as scrap material, and at the cost of the health of the workers and local population: Even the Washington Post thought it was worthy of commenting upon: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A56653-2003Feb24 Some disturbing pictures, things like open air copper smelting: http://www.ecologicliving.ca/ArticleRead.aspx?id=29 PBDEs (flame retardant) in Chinese electronics-recycling workers: http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/esthag-w/2007/july/science/kb_china.html From that article: "Toxicology studies conducted with animals show that BDE?209 can impact thyroid hormones and alter brain development." Note: *everyone on this list would benefit from taking the time to read this next article*: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1913570 An excerpt from that article: "Observation of e-waste processing. The primitive e-waste recycling procedures in Guiyu were mainly as follows: a) Old electronic equipment was dismantled (Figure 2) with electric drill, cutter, hammer, and screwdriver into component parts such as monitor, hard drive, CD driver, wires, cables, circuit boards, transformer, charger, battery, and plastic or metal frame that are sold for reuse or to other workshops for further recycling. b) Circuit boards (Figure 3) of computers and other large appliances were heated over coal fires to melt the solder to release valuable electronic components, such as diodes, resistors, and microchips. c) Circuit boards of cell phones and other hand-held devices were taken apart by a electrothermal machine (Figure 4), which was a particular environmental and human health concern in the processing of e-waste in Guiyu. d) In acid baths (Figure 5), some microchips and computer parts were soaked to extract precious gold and palladium, from which the waste acids were discharged into nearby fields and streams. e) Wires and cables were stripped or simply burnt in open air to recover metals. f) Printer cartridges were ripped apart for their toner and recyclable aluminum, steel, and plastic parts. g) Plastic [e.g., polyvinyl chloride (PVC), acrylonitrile butadiene styrene copolymer (ABS), high-density polyethylene (HDPE)] was sorted by workers according to rigidity, color, and luster. Plastic scraps that cannot be sorted visually must be burned and classified by burning odor." So yes, everyone, go ahead and buy new electronics. We're doing everyone a favour by reinvesting in technology companies that will make our current technology obsolete, such that it will end up being "recycled" into the next new piece of kit that will revolutionize the way we do business. Environment is irrelevant right? And hey, what better way to ensure we stay on the top of the global capitalist pile along with the U.S. and E.U. than by shipping off our waste to other countries like China and India and letting those people contract whatever horrible disease our precious flame-retardant cellphones cause when they're burned anyways, and where the type of plastic is checked by a person smelling the smoke. Now Linux may not be able to solve that problem, but damnit, if it runs on that old pda, or you can make use of it in some fashion, then do it. You'll get geek points and good karma. Ok, I'm done. But please, everyone, at least think about what happens when you throw out that old crt or tower; you owe it to yourself and to the rest of us who live on this planet. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 05:08:15 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 01:08:15 -0400 Subject: OT-Repurposing PDAs In-Reply-To: <46D25461.5050500-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070826135946.de74uqshajtw0g88@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> <46D25461.5050500@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On 8/27/07, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Now Linux may not be able to solve that problem, but damnit, if it runs > on that old pda, or you can make use of it in some fashion, then do it. > You'll get geek points and good karma. The thing is, NO, Linux *WILL NOT RUN* on that old PDA. Most of the ones described are ancient Casio units that probably have 8 bit CPUs and almost certainly do not have MMUs. The "powerful" one has 256K of memory, and the last I checked, Linux required more than 1MB just to get a kernel going. You might be able to run NetBSD on the Cassiopeia; there doesn't seem to be an active Linux port for it. The M130 is an old 8MB M68K unit with no MMU, so that there's barely anything you can do with Linux on it. uCLinux on Palm 68K has always been a "proof of concept" thing as opposed to actually being terribly useful for anything. So NO, Linux is in no way a solution to any of this. But we also know that the hardware wasn't all working, too; there are dead batteries (can't be replaced without invoking all the "evil pollution badness" that you suggested) and other dead hardware that was pretty much designed not to be able to be fixed. I rather expect that the difference between "disposing of things as badly as possible" and "as well as possible" is NOT infinite, and therefore should not be treated as if it were a wide-open infinite factor to be avoided at all costs. Avoiding disposal is *also* costly, and pretending it isn't is just silly. At some point, by the way, the attempt to "save the CRT" also backfires. CRTs consume a lot more energy than LCD screens, generally speaking, and, as LEDs come into the picture (for backlighting), there is fairly soon going to be a big conflict of interest in this regard. Do you: a) Keep the old CRT running, at the cost of heavy power consumption, and, ultimately, pain to your eyes, as the screen degrades, or b) Replace with an LCD screen that uses less materials and less power and which fairly likely lasts better? Disk drives have another "driving" issue, namely that a new one has some *LARGE* multiple more space than an old one, whilst consuming no more power and no more materials (likely less). And an old one *WILL* fail, of that you can be certain. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 12:24:27 2007 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:24:27 -0400 Subject: remote solar/wind power for an embedded system In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200708270824.28114.ican@netrover.com> If you haven't already chosen the embedded system you might want to look into the ultra low power IO Anywhere system. (www.io-anywhere.ca). There is also a company out of Vancouver which specializes in low power systems for remote data applications. http://techsol.ca/products/index.html bob On Saturday 25 August 2007 08:13 pm, Dave Cramer wrote: > Anyone have recommendations for a remote power system. > > This could include a solar cell, battery, and or small turbine to > provide power for a remote sensing embedded linux device. > > The device itself requires approx 10 watts to run. Additionally I > need power to run a wifi or satellite modem. Apparently there is some > literature out of Algonquin College. > > I have found some thermostatically (hot and cold ) controlled NEMA > weather proof boxes. This is probably a requirement as well. > > Dave > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gravity.is.the.man-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 12:24:35 2007 From: gravity.is.the.man-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Henry de Valence) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:24:35 -0400 Subject: Installing Kubuntu on Dell Inspiron Message-ID: <200708270824.35866.gravity.is.the.man@gmail.com> I'm having some problems installing Kubuntu 7.04 on my new Dell Inspiron 1420. When I first tried to boot from the live DVD, it kicked me out to a BusyBox shell and told me "cannot access tty; job control turned off". After following instructions here http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=421588&page=2 I went through the steps, but I got stuck on "You will now boot into the LiveCD normally." Instead, I got a splash screen which then disappeared into a blinking cursor. If I do Ctrl-Alt-F[1-6], I can get a working command line, but KDM is all screwed up. I tried to restart it using 'sudo /etc/init.d/kdm restart', which informed me that kdm wasn't running. It then tried to start it, which gave me a nice splash screen that quickly crashed back to the cursor. When I did 'start' or 'reload', I get the same problem. I also tried booting with 'irqpoll', as someone suggested, but that didn't help. FYI: I have no idea what the different boot options mean; I just followed instructions. It came with a bunch of weird partitions, including one for the DELL MediaDirect (which seems really pointless to me anyways) and a backup partition. I backed up the backup and then wiped & reinstalled Vista on a single 40GB partition, just to see if that might help. It didn't (but I didn't lose much/anything for trying, so whatever.) If I can't get Kubuntu, I would like to install a distro that has KDE, but I'd like to use Kubuntu just because it's what I'm used to, and I'm kinda new to Linux anyways. I also tried booting into a Kubuntu 7.10 Tribe 4 disc, which didn't work ( Not that I thought it would, but it was lying around.) Harry -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 15:29:48 2007 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:29:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Can't install Gentoo linux on Dell Inspiron 530 In-Reply-To: <20070826013221.GB8786-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070826013221.GB8786@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <619794.29941.qm@web61322.mail.yahoo.com> Walter Dnes wrote: I at least have the keyboard functioning properly. The boot line is gentoo noapic irqpoll acpi=force I found this via Google, where someone had a similar problem under Slax. The busybox shell doesn't have fdisk or lspci. I want to be able to run "fdisk -l" and "lspci -v", to find out what exactly the install sees. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. I have installed Ubuntu 7.04 on Inpiron 530S. I was not able to get the network card working so I put in a DLink card that Ubuntu recognised. Well, I have to give up the video capabilities and settle for a VESA driver to get it working. That would be a problem if you are using a wide screen monitor and do graphic editing. EK --------------------------------- Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 18:35:33 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:35:33 -0400 Subject: restore thunderbird mail file Message-ID: <46D31975.5060304@chrisaitken.net> Sorry to start yet another thread of possible slightly different name. I've lost a bit of mail but the problem is resolved. Since I found that all the Mailbox files were missing I checked the original mail file on the backup pc to see if they were there but just didn't copy over. Sure enough they were - they didn't copy over because the permissions did not allow me to open them (I could only view them in the file manager). So, I reset permissions with the permissive chmod 777, did another scp from the target machine to pull the Mailbox files over, re-pointed thunderbird to the mail file, and voila! everything is cool. Thanks for your help! Chris Happy (so far) new fedora 7 user. P.S. I was worried I'd have to do painful re-installs of rosegarden, open office, audacity, and hp-whatever-it's-called that lets me use my hp psc 1610. THe printer was detected so that's fine. As for ht apps, I just went to Add/Remove Software, picked out everything I want (it was all there) and I guess it just rips it off the 'net, 'cause it asked for no CDs (or DVDs). Good thing, as there's not much on the f7 live CD that I installed from. I installed to hd from the f7 live CD because I had no DVD burner (the full version of f7 is only on DVD). Also, thanks for the advice about getting a DVD burner. Yeah, it /was/ the LG H54 (IDE) that the first salesman told me about. When I came back to pick it up, another salesman gave me the LG H62. I didn't check the back panel because I had never heard of SATA (I don't get out much). So, I exchanged the drive and have my IDE DVD RW installed now. Again, thanks everyone! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 19:36:37 2007 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:36:37 -0400 Subject: attack on my server Message-ID: Hi, I've had a number of unauthorized attempts to gain access to my server as I can see from the log files. Aug 27 02:19:50 billy sshd(pam_unix)[9375]: authentication failure; logname= uid=0 euid=0 tty=ssh ruser= rhost=125.65.113.134 Aug 27 02:32:42 billy sshd(pam_unix)[9637]: authentication failure; logname= uid=0 euid=0 tty=ssh ruser= rhost=59-106-23-199.r-bl100.sakura.ne.jp I'm not convinced the isp will actually do something about it. How would one proceed to keep those users off my box? I was thinking of just blocking those particular networks but I'm worried of blocking too many poeple. Is there a way to address this properly? Thanks Martin _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail. Even hotter than before. Get a better look now. www.newhotmail.ca?icid=WLHMENCA148 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 19:46:43 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:46:43 -0400 Subject: attack on my server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46D32A23.5020505@utoronto.ca> Martin Duclos wrote: > Hi, > I've had a number of unauthorized attempts to gain access to my server > as I can see from the log files. > > Aug 27 02:19:50 billy sshd(pam_unix)[9375]: authentication failure; > logname= uid=0 euid=0 tty=ssh ruser= rhost=125.65.113.134 > > Aug 27 02:32:42 billy sshd(pam_unix)[9637]: authentication failure; > logname= uid=0 euid=0 tty=ssh ruser= > rhost=59-106-23-199.r-bl100.sakura.ne.jp > > I'm not convinced the isp will actually do something about it. How would > one proceed to keep those users off my box? I was thinking of just > blocking those particular networks but I'm worried of blocking too many > poeple. > > Is there a way to address this properly? Easiest is to move ssh from port 22 to another port, something random, above 1024. That or only allow key based authentication which is the most secure (unless someone gets a copy of your key): Put these into your /etc/ssh/sshd_config PasswordAuthentication no PubkeyAuthentication yes Make sure you have access physical access to the box before you reload ssh and make sure you've already created, installed, and tested your keys first! It sucks to lock yourself out of your own box. Daniel Robins of Gentoo fame wrote a good couple of articles for IBM on ssh keys: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-keyc.html http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-keyc2/ Another tool to use is fail2ban or denyhosts, but a few attempts get made before those tools block the offending ip. Use keys if you can. If you need passwords then move ssh from port 22 and install denyhosts or fail2ban. Don't forget to do a whois on the ip and notify the abuse-IEbV4ISQ1OQLjeHjzwaQZA at public.gmane.org address :) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 19:52:00 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:52:00 -0400 Subject: attack on my server In-Reply-To: <46D32A23.5020505-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <46D32A23.5020505@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420708271252k1f8ca629m9f0803e92e95763e@mail.gmail.com> On 8/27/07, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Put these into your /etc/ssh/sshd_config > PasswordAuthentication no > PubkeyAuthentication yes I think you have to turn off PAM-based access, too. I had the same problem as Martin and used the same solution as Jamon suggested. I thought I had configured sshd to only allow key-based logins, but username/password combos were being accepted until I turn off PAM, too. I don't remember the explanation. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 19:59:12 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:59:12 -0400 Subject: attack on my server In-Reply-To: <7ac602420708271252k1f8ca629m9f0803e92e95763e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <46D32A23.5020505@utoronto.ca> <7ac602420708271252k1f8ca629m9f0803e92e95763e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46D32D10.10300@utoronto.ca> Ian Petersen wrote: > On 8/27/07, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> Put these into your /etc/ssh/sshd_config >> PasswordAuthentication no >> PubkeyAuthentication yes > > I think you have to turn off PAM-based access, too. I had the same > problem as Martin and used the same solution as Jamon suggested. I > thought I had configured sshd to only allow key-based logins, but > username/password combos were being accepted until I turn off PAM, > too. I don't remember the explanation. > > Ian > Right. Add/change: UsePAM no Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 20:04:12 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:04:12 -0400 Subject: attack on my server In-Reply-To: <46D32A23.5020505-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <46D32A23.5020505@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070827200412.GE29321@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Aug 27, 2007 at 03:46:43PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: >Easiest is to move ssh from port 22 to another port, something random, >above 1024. I think this gives a false sense of security. You have to assume that if a port is publicly available then cracker will find it. After all only a 5 minute port scan stands between him and the obfuscated port. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 4 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 19:48:44 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:48:44 -0400 Subject: attack on my server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070827194844.GD29321@watson-wilson.ca> This is standard script crack attempts. I have hundreds a week. Keep you system hardened, up to date and keep backups. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 4 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 20:21:06 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:21:06 -0400 Subject: attack on my server In-Reply-To: <46D32D10.10300-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <46D32A23.5020505@utoronto.ca> <7ac602420708271252k1f8ca629m9f0803e92e95763e@mail.gmail.com> <46D32D10.10300@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <5917FB85-3A8E-4F37-AB00-8BDFCCCF08D2@visibleassets.com> I don't stop there. turn off root login in sshd_config. Additionally deny remote root login using PAM forces you to use sudo. Dave On 27-Aug-07, at 3:59 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Ian Petersen wrote: >> On 8/27/07, Jamon Camisso wrote: >>> Put these into your /etc/ssh/sshd_config >>> PasswordAuthentication no >>> PubkeyAuthentication yes >> I think you have to turn off PAM-based access, too. I had the same >> problem as Martin and used the same solution as Jamon suggested. I >> thought I had configured sshd to only allow key-based logins, but >> username/password combos were being accepted until I turn off PAM, >> too. I don't remember the explanation. >> Ian > > Right. Add/change: > UsePAM no > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 20:23:40 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:23:40 -0400 Subject: attack on my server In-Reply-To: <5917FB85-3A8E-4F37-AB00-8BDFCCCF08D2-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <46D32A23.5020505@utoronto.ca> <7ac602420708271252k1f8ca629m9f0803e92e95763e@mail.gmail.com> <46D32D10.10300@utoronto.ca> <5917FB85-3A8E-4F37-AB00-8BDFCCCF08D2@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <46D332CC.9040205@utoronto.ca> Dave Cramer wrote: > I don't stop there. > > turn off root login in sshd_config. > > Additionally deny remote root login using PAM forces you to use sudo. > > Dave And host based authentication is a good directive to use too if you have a static ip. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 20:28:13 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:28:13 -0400 Subject: attack on my server In-Reply-To: <20070827200412.GE29321-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <46D32A23.5020505@utoronto.ca> <20070827200412.GE29321@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <46D333DD.1040509@utoronto.ca> Neil Watson wrote: > On Mon, Aug 27, 2007 at 03:46:43PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> Easiest is to move ssh from port 22 to another port, something random, >> above 1024. > > I think this gives a false sense of security. You have to assume that > if a port is publicly available then cracker will find it. After all > only a 5 minute port scan stands between him and the obfuscated port. Sure, again keys are best. But moving the port reduces automated scans drastically, I'd say by an order of magnitude at least, usually more. If you're up against a cracker who wants in, then any open port is a potential vulnerability. If you have to have passwords, move the port, use fail2ban/denyhosts, and maybe setup port-knocking too. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 20:39:04 2007 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:39:04 -0400 Subject: attack on my server In-Reply-To: <46D333DD.1040509-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <46D32A23.5020505@utoronto.ca> <20070827200412.GE29321@watson-wilson.ca> <46D333DD.1040509@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <40EAA9DE9015244685020EE950693D02145E9C1790@VMBX102.ihostexchange.net> I trash anything outside of Western Europe and North America. Yep, won't keep out the bored university students but 90% of my attacks trace out to Eastern Europe or Asia. D. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jamon > Camisso > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 4:28 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: attack on my server > > Neil Watson wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 27, 2007 at 03:46:43PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > >> Easiest is to move ssh from port 22 to another port, something > random, > >> above 1024. > > > > I think this gives a false sense of security. You have to assume > that > > if a port is publicly available then cracker will find it. After all > > only a 5 minute port scan stands between him and the obfuscated port. > > Sure, again keys are best. But moving the port reduces automated scans > drastically, I'd say by an order of magnitude at least, usually more. > > If you're up against a cracker who wants in, then any open port is a > potential vulnerability. If you have to have passwords, move the port, > use fail2ban/denyhosts, and maybe setup port-knocking too. > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 21:25:13 2007 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:25:13 -0400 Subject: attack on my server In-Reply-To: <5917FB85-3A8E-4F37-AB00-8BDFCCCF08D2-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <46D32A23.5020505@utoronto.ca> <7ac602420708271252k1f8ca629m9f0803e92e95763e@mail.gmail.com> <46D32D10.10300@utoronto.ca> <5917FB85-3A8E-4F37-AB00-8BDFCCCF08D2@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <20070827212513.GA17640@wp.magstar.net> On Mon, Aug 27, 2007 at 04:21:06PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > turn off root login in sshd_config. That's going a bit too far. Firewall and "Key-access only" are sufficient, even for root account. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kmastin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 21:16:26 2007 From: kmastin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:16:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: attack on my server In-Reply-To: <46D32A23.5020505-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <46D32A23.5020505@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <455390.92820.qm@web88305.mail.re4.yahoo.com> --- Jamon Camisso wrote: > Martin Duclos wrote: > > Hi, > > I've had a number of unauthorized attempts to gain > access to my server ... > > Don't forget to do a whois on the ip and notify the > abuse-IEbV4ISQ1OQLjeHjzwaQZA at public.gmane.org address :) As a courtesy, assume the ip is spoofed when you make the notification. You may also want to place some watchdogs on your system. A couple I'de recommend looking at are Nessus and Saint. If you have a free box to use for something like this the STD might also be of interest. Good luck Keith > > Jamon > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 23:14:19 2007 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:14:19 -0400 Subject: attack on my server In-Reply-To: <87y7fwio5b.fsf-HasXQTlsvt3rBOhAThGf31HQDTjEqnB/@public.gmane.org> References: <87y7fwio5b.fsf@MagnumOpus.Murcurius> Message-ID: Thanks for all that replies! I was thinking of just blocking by ip but it can get tedious to keep going thru logs to find each offending host and block ip by ip. My worry with that was that the attacher might have a whole pool of addresses. I didn't think changing the port would help that much. I like the idea of DenyHost and the like. Martin ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Charles philip Chan" Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: attack on my server Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:54:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from rock.ss.org ([206.108.5.1]) by bay0-mc12-f2.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:55:26 -0700 Received: by rock.ss.org (Postfix)id 341BC307AF; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by rock.ss.org (Postfix, from userid 54)id 2E8213075B; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:54:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w X-Message-Info: EoYTbT2lH2P+rXKj3a/vL46Oj+K1AzRUmXxQ9jRoowR5Vos7vLZJWqsiJIxFeS+KC+Pwsr+hX7wv4VPWJqNdHA== Delivered-To: route-tlug-JcsaL2wEbRNAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org X-Original-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Delivered-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org References: <46D32A23.5020505-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org><20070827200412.GE29321-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org><46D333DD.1040509-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110007 (No Gnus v0.7) Emacs/22.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-Face: G;Z,`sm>)4t4LB/GUrgH$W`!AmfHMj,LG)Z}X0ax at s9:0>0)B&@vcm{v-le)wng)?|o]D\Z}0:6X Precedence: list Return-Path: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Aug 2007 22:55:27.0233 (UTC) FILETIME=[5C10E710:01C7E8FD] Jamon Camisso writes: > Sure, again keys are best. But moving the port reduces automated scans > drastically, I'd say by an order of magnitude at least, usually more. No matter what, a port scan will find it. a better option for this is to use denyhost: http://denyhosts.sourceforge.net/ if your copy of sshd is compiled with tcpwrapper support. Another option is to use snort with flex-response or in conjuction with guardian.pl or blockit.pl. Charles -- Use debugging compilers. - The Elements of Programming Style (Kernighan & Plaugher) << attach3 >> _________________________________________________________________ Show Your Messenger Buddies How You Really Feel http://www.freemessengeremoticons.ca/?icid=EMENCA122 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 23:25:51 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:25:51 -0700 Subject: attack on my server In-Reply-To: <87y7fwio5b.fsf-HasXQTlsvt3rBOhAThGf31HQDTjEqnB/@public.gmane.org> References: <46D32A23.5020505@utoronto.ca> <20070827200412.GE29321@watson-wilson.ca> <46D333DD.1040509@utoronto.ca> <87y7fwio5b.fsf@MagnumOpus.Murcurius> Message-ID: <3a97ef0708271625o27d21212tbe5f32ad35c52a6f@mail.gmail.com> Agreed. Anything that adds to security without overly impeding functionality/performance is usually a good idea. In this case I was trying to indicate that if keyless access is needed then having a secondary password-authenticated SSH for non-privilaged accounts is a good idea. However, having denyhosts or other measures on top of that is an even better idea. On one of my more secure servers I actually keep most of my net-accessible processes running from a vserver, which keeps the chance of the whole server being compromised down. On 8/27/07, Charles philip Chan wrote: > Jamon Camisso writes: > > > Sure, again keys are best. But moving the port reduces automated scans > > drastically, I'd say by an order of magnitude at least, usually more. > > No matter what, a port scan will find it. a better option for this is to > use denyhost: > > http://denyhosts.sourceforge.net/ > > if your copy of sshd is compiled with tcpwrapper support. Another option > is to use snort with flex-response or in conjuction with guardian.pl or > blockit.pl. > > Charles > > -- > Use debugging compilers. > - The Elements of Programming Style (Kernighan & Plaugher) > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 29 11:28:04 2007 From: paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org (Paul Nash) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 07:28:04 -0400 Subject: FC6 unable to get out of local network Message-ID: I've just seen a very wierd FC6 install. The machine can reach anything on the local network, but cannot get outside. The IP, netmask, gateway are all set correctly. Outgoing packets get to the gateway, which forwards them, but return packets are ignored. I've tried turning iptables off; makes no difference. Tcpdump does not show any of the return packets either. Tcpdump does not show ICMP packets either, only TCP or UDP. Traceroute gives "no response" indications in bursts, about 5 lines of "* * *", then a 5-second wait, then five lines of "* * *". Box is a new-ish 64-bit AMD, running 32-bit FC6. Next move is to re-install on an old P3 and see whet happens. Anyone else seen anything like this? Any ideas? paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 29 12:43:37 2007 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 08:43:37 -0400 Subject: general questions about updates Message-ID: <46D569F9.2090909@chrisaitken.net> I just got my first "There are four updates" offering. Then I get to view the updates to accept them or not. Is there any general wisdom about accepting these updates? 1. Are they usually so small you might as well just take 'em all? 2. Are they likely to enhance operations of other applications - ones that don't seem to be related to the update package? For instance is elfutils likely to help me with anything other than an app called "elf" (if there is such a beast)? 3. Are the offerings customized to my system, or are they just all the updates created in the four days since I installed fedora7 (four seems like a lot, btw - I'm amazed how people work on these things for nothing but the pleasure of doing a good thing)? Here are the offerings: updated elfutils packages available updated liberation-fonts packages available updated liboil packages available updated rpm packages available None of those packages ring a bell - other than rpm. Thanks, Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 29 13:17:00 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:17:00 -0400 Subject: Video Editing In-Reply-To: <200708282223.13362.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200708282223.13362.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20070829131700.GE11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 28, 2007 at 10:23:13PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > I have a 10 minute corporate video on DVD which I would like to edit > for length and content. I will be cutting out about half of it and > will be adding some still images to it. A friend ripped the DVD into > WMV format. I can also rip it into various formats with VLC. Once it > is in some format like that, what do you suggest I can use to edit > that video? I want to be able to separate the soundtrack, which is > just stock music, from the video and then add the soundtrack back to > the video after I have edited the video. I can trim the soundtrack as > necessary then. Well what you really want is probably the original mpeg data from the DVD since it will have the highest quality since it won't have been decompressed and then recompressed. It also nicely has the audio as a seperate stream, so to seperate the video and audio all you have to do is demux the mpeg (vob) from the DVD and you get an mpeg audio file and an mpeg video file. Both should be easy to edit in any video editing program you have, after which you can multiplex them back together (or maybe the video editing program will do it for you). To get the original mpeg data, either just copy the vob files, or use dvdbackup or decss or whichever is available. Ripping to a super lossy wmv is not a good start before editing. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 29 13:18:41 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:18:41 -0400 Subject: FC6 unable to get out of local network In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070829131841.GF11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 29, 2007 at 07:28:04AM -0400, Paul Nash wrote: > I've just seen a very wierd FC6 install. The machine can reach anything on > the local network, but cannot get outside. The IP, netmask, gateway are > all set correctly. Outgoing packets get to the gateway, which forwards > them, but return packets are ignored. > > I've tried turning iptables off; makes no difference. Tcpdump does not > show any of the return packets either. Tcpdump does not show ICMP packets > either, only TCP or UDP. > > Traceroute gives "no response" indications in bursts, about 5 lines of "* * > *", then a 5-second wait, then five lines of "* * *". Many routers especially at ISPs don't respond to traceroute requests. Doesn't mean much necesarily. > Box is a new-ish 64-bit AMD, running 32-bit FC6. Next move is to > re-install on an old P3 and see whet happens. > > Anyone else seen anything like this? Any ideas? Can other machines go through the same gateway? If yes, then it sure is weird. If no, fix the masquarade setup on the gateway. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 29 13:23:37 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:23:37 -0400 Subject: general questions about updates In-Reply-To: <46D569F9.2090909-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <46D569F9.2090909@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20070829132337.GG11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 29, 2007 at 08:43:37AM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > I just got my first "There are four updates" offering. Then I get to > view the updates to accept them or not. Is there any general wisdom > about accepting these updates? > > 1. Are they usually so small you might as well just take 'em all? On Debian I pretty much always upgrade everything unless I have a specific reason for not upgrading something, in which case I put it on hold. > 2. Are they likely to enhance operations of other applications - ones > that don't seem to be related to the update package? For instance is > elfutils likely to help me with anything other than an app called "elf" > (if there is such a beast)? elfutils will only do something if you are doing development and need to inspect internal details of binaries. All the updates are probably just minor bug fixes. > 3. Are the offerings customized to my system, or are they just all the > updates created in the four days since I installed fedora7 (four seems > like a lot, btw - I'm amazed how people work on these things for nothing > but the pleasure of doing a good thing)? Just the updates in the last four days to the packages you have installed (at least I hope that is how fedora's update system works). > Here are the offerings: > > updated elfutils packages available Utilities for inspecting and working with elf binaries. No idea why that would normally be installed unless you do actual development on the system. > updated liberation-fonts packages available Some font package I guess. Never heard of it. Not in Debian under any name similar to that. > updated liboil packages available Library of optimized inner loops. Used by gstreamer and other video stuff under gnome (and possibly other things too). > updated rpm packages available package manager obviously. > None of those packages ring a bell - other than rpm. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 29 15:09:22 2007 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd:Your Mer1dia 0rder #8867587 Message-ID: <1188400162.46d58c22cdee4@webmail.golden.net> ----- Forwarded message from Phillip Erwin ----- Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 01:28:00 -0500 From: Phillip Erwin Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Your Mer1dia 0rder #8867587 To: drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org WTF any other tluggers getting this crap. Look at the reply too. Drew has another side business lol. We have everything you need: Phenterm1ne, Cial1s S0ft T4bs, V1agra S0ft T4bs, Cial1s, V1agra, Lev1tra, Propec1a, Val1um, Xan4x, Amb1en, Zyb4n, Atar4x, At1van, Car1soma, Ultr4m, Glucoph4ge, Lip1tor, Mer1dia, Zoc0r, N0rvasc, Prov1gil/Modaf1nil, Zol0ft, V1agra Oral Gel. We respect your privacy - we guarantee you a total anonymity of your 0rder and lowest prices. Visit US He4lthc4re Inc. online at: http://www.aaskwlmm.com/ If you want to be excluded from th1s ma1ling http://www.aaskwlmm.com/m0veme/ We will process your request in 48hr's -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists ----- End forwarded message ----- -------------------------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through WebMail | Courtesy of Execulink -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 29 15:30:34 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:30:34 -0400 Subject: Your Mer1dia 0rder #8867587 In-Reply-To: <1188400162.46d58c22cdee4-2RFepEojUI3p24aHPuLyy6xOck334EZe@public.gmane.org> References: <1188400162.46d58c22cdee4@webmail.golden.net> Message-ID: You did a favor to these spammers. The letter had Reply-to to TLUG list and thats what they wanted it to be sended by using a social trick. Also, the fact that it had in From drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org does not mean it it indeed come rom that address... BTW, Google mail seems to go the same way as Microsoft did long time ago: now I can not see full header of messages received in my mail box... zb. On 8/29/07, jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > ----- Forwarded message from Phillip Erwin ----- > Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 01:28:00 -0500 > From: Phillip Erwin > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Your Mer1dia 0rder #8867587 > To: drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > WTF any other tluggers getting this crap. Look at the reply too. Drew has > another side business lol. > > > We have everything you need: Phenterm1ne, Cial1s S0ft T4bs, V1agra > S0ft T4bs, Cial1s, V1agra, Lev1tra, Propec1a, Val1um, Xan4x, Amb1en, > Zyb4n, Atar4x, At1van, Car1soma, Ultr4m, Glucoph4ge, > Lip1tor, Mer1dia, Zoc0r, N0rvasc, Prov1gil/Modaf1nil, Zol0ft, > V1agra Oral Gel. > > We respect your privacy - we guarantee you a total > anonymity of your 0rder and lowest prices. > Visit US He4lthc4re Inc. online at: http://www.aaskwlmm.com/ > > > > > If you want to be excluded from th1s ma1ling > http://www.aaskwlmm.com/m0veme/ > We will process your request in 48hr's > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through WebMail | Courtesy of Execulink > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 29 15:44:33 2007 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:44:33 -0400 Subject: attack on my server In-Reply-To: References: <58680.66.11.182.5.1188278060.squirrel@canuckster.org> <33520576-FB8D-4D7D-A4E8-9113051AEFD0@visibleassets.com> <20070828145535.GA5731@watson-wilson.ca> <20070828204403.F4016854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20070829154433.AEC13854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> Alex Maynard wrote: > This suggests choosing the phassprhase words at random by rolling > dice. I'm sure that will be hard to break, but isn't that also hard > to remember unless you use it very often? Alex I haven't used this for my personal password, but I have for my root password. Despite the fact that I only type the root password once a month or so, I have had no difficulty remembering it. The fact that it is a string of words with a few special characters thrown in actually makes it a lot more memorable than other good passwords I have used. I actually include spaces between the words which helps my mind think of them as a (admitedly nonsense) phrase. And the fact that it is such a good password means that there is no point in changing the password periodically unless you're *really* paranoid. As Ian points out the phrase is a set of 5 words chosen from the list, which, if you add the one special character suggested (as I did for my root password) gives you 74.6 bits of entropy. For comparison, an 8 character password chosen *completely at random* (i.e. by rolling dice) from a 95 character alphabet (standard printable ascii) give you 52.5 bits of entropy. That extra 22 bits of entropy means that it is 2^22 (about 4 million) times harder to crack. It is also not subject to a dictionary attack. The words are just there to help you remember the result of the 29 random dice rolls you made. Using the example from the page, instead of the key cleft-cam-synod-lacy-yr, you could as well use 1666515653563223561665224 - they are isomorphic and both have 6^25 or 2^64.6 (64.6 bits) worth of entropy. For anyone interested in passwords and entropy, you may find: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Password_cracking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptographic_key_length http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Password_strength http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passphrase interesting. For a description of what that entropy does for you, see: http://world.std.com/~reinhold/dicewarefaq.html#howlong In that analysis, that 8-character random password is almost equivalent to a four-word diceware password. And lastly, I've referred a few times to *random* 8-character passwords. If you're going to do that, I suggest you follow: http://world.std.com/~reinhold/dicewarefaq.html#tables because you won't have randomness otherwise. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 29 15:45:12 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:45:12 -0400 Subject: Your Mer1dia 0rder #8867587 In-Reply-To: References: <1188400162.46d58c22cdee4@webmail.golden.net> Message-ID: <7ac602420708290845y43a66454u92d4c74d7e734f6c@mail.gmail.com> On 8/29/07, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > BTW, Google mail seems to go the same way as Microsoft did long time ago: > now I can not see full header of messages received in my mail box... I think I can. There's a down-arrow in the upper-right corner of each message in my inbox. When I click on it, I get a menu with a "Show original" menu item. Clicking on "Show original" brings up a new window with the entire email in plain text. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 29 15:52:29 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:52:29 -0400 Subject: Your Mer1dia 0rder #8867587 In-Reply-To: <7ac602420708290845y43a66454u92d4c74d7e734f6c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1188400162.46d58c22cdee4@webmail.golden.net> <7ac602420708290845y43a66454u92d4c74d7e734f6c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Right. Thanks. zb. On 8/29/07, Ian Petersen wrote: > > On 8/29/07, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > BTW, Google mail seems to go the same way as Microsoft did long time > ago: > > now I can not see full header of messages received in my mail box... > > I think I can. There's a down-arrow in the upper-right corner of each > message in my inbox. When I click on it, I get a menu with a "Show > original" menu item. Clicking on "Show original" brings up a new > window with the entire email in plain text. > > Ian > > -- > Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? > Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists-MKqfGmd6cJs0gtvRndBQZNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 29 16:14:08 2007 From: lists-MKqfGmd6cJs0gtvRndBQZNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Craig Routledge) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 12:14:08 -0400 Subject: general questions about updates In-Reply-To: <20070829132337.GG11129-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> (from lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org on Wed Aug 29 09:23:37 2007) References: <20070829132337.GG11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1188404048l.4905l.0l@treehouse> On 2007-08-29 09:23, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Aug 29, 2007 at 08:43:37AM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > > I just got my first "There are four updates" offering. Then I get to > > view the updates to accept them or not. Is there any general wisdom > > about accepting these updates? > > > > 1. Are they usually so small you might as well just take 'em all? On broadband yes. On dialup, some of the big packages you'd better let download while you do something else. They are sometimes upgrades to new versions. Usually they are bugfixes and security updates. So in general you always want to update, regardless of size. My brother is not technically inclined, so I set up his machine to automatically download and apply all updates. In three years, there has only been one problem. The video driver for his machine in the mainline kernel stopped working once. You wouldn't want to do that for a production system, but it's fine for a home system. You can always revert the update until it gets sorted out. > On Debian I pretty much always upgrade everything unless I have a > specific reason for not upgrading something, in which case I put it on > hold. Agreed. Those exclusions should be quite rare. I currently don't have any. > > 2. Are they likely to enhance operations of other applications - ones > > that don't seem to be related to the update package? For instance is > > elfutils likely to help me with anything other than an app called "elf" > > (if there is such a beast)? Many are libraries or utilities that may be used by other applications. So yes. > > 3. Are the offerings customized to my system, or are they just all the > > updates created in the four days since I installed fedora7 (four seems > > like a lot, btw - I'm amazed how people work on these things for > nothing > > > but the pleasure of doing a good thing)? > > Just the updates in the last four days to the packages you have > installed (at least I hope that is how fedora's update system works). Correct. > > Here are the offerings: > > > > updated liberation-fonts packages available > Some font package I guess. Never heard of it. Not in Debian under any > name similar to that. If I recall correctly, they are fonts designed to be drop in replacements for Microsoft Windows fonts that appear on many webpages, but are distributed under an open license. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 29 17:12:07 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:12:07 -0400 Subject: Your Mer1dia 0rder #8867587 In-Reply-To: References: <1188400162.46d58c22cdee4@webmail.golden.net> Message-ID: <20070829171207.GH11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 29, 2007 at 11:30:34AM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > You did a favor to these spammers. The letter had Reply-to to TLUG list and > thats what they wanted it to be sended by using a social trick. > > Also, the fact that it had in From drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org does not mean it it indeed > come rom that address... > > BTW, Google mail seems to go the same way as Microsoft did long time ago: > now I can not see full header of messages received in my mail box... Click the little "down arrow" in the upper right corner of the message pane when on a message, and select "View Original". Seems to do the job for me. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 29 17:15:28 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:15:28 -0400 Subject: general questions about updates In-Reply-To: <1188404048l.4905l.0l@treehouse> References: <20070829132337.GG11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1188404048l.4905l.0l@treehouse> Message-ID: <20070829171528.GI11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 29, 2007 at 12:14:08PM -0400, Craig Routledge wrote: > On broadband yes. On dialup, some of the big packages you'd better let > download while you do something else. I used to do this when I had dial up to maintain a debian unstable system: dial up internet with 'pon' then do: apt-get update;apt-get --download-only -y dist-upgrade;poff Then I would go to bed, and in the morning it would be ready for me to install the updates it had already downloaded. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 29 17:35:32 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:35:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Can't install Gentoo linux on Dell Inspiron 530 In-Reply-To: <619794.29941.qm-I0FLLw3AZCWA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <619794.29941.qm@web61322.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: | From: E K [Please don't use HTML in mail to this list (or to me).] | I have installed Ubuntu 7.04 on Inpiron 530S. I was not able to get | the network card working so I put in a DLink card that Ubuntu | recognised. Well, I have to give up the video capabilities and settle | for a VESA driver to get it working. That would be a problem if you | are using a wide screen monitor and do graphic editing. I don't know what an Inpiron (or Inspiron) 530S is. But I bet you can get these things working with enough research. When you say "network card", are you meaning wired or wireless? Wired is usually easy, wireless can be more of a challenge. It is sad if you have to use VESA. If you are willing to use proprietary drivers, you should be able to use native drivers and get reasonable results. I think that the Inspiron 530s is an Intel-based desktop. I would guess that the built-in ethernet should work on any modern Linux. The video is probably an integrated Intel GMA 3100 device. Intel seems to be feeding driver support into X.org. So if it isn't supported now, it should be soon. I'm not saying that it is easy to get all this working, only that it is likely that it can be done. Google for other folks' experience. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 29 21:44:50 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:44:50 -0400 Subject: Can't install Gentoo linux on Dell Inspiron 530 In-Reply-To: References: <619794.29941.qm@web61322.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070829214450.GJ11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 29, 2007 at 01:35:32PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I don't know what an Inpiron (or Inspiron) 530S is. But I bet you can > get these things working with enough research. > > When you say "network card", are you meaning wired or wireless? > Wired is usually easy, wireless can be more of a challenge. > > It is sad if you have to use VESA. If you are willing to use > proprietary drivers, you should be able to use native drivers and get > reasonable results. > > I think that the Inspiron 530s is an Intel-based desktop. I would > guess that the built-in ethernet should work on any modern Linux. The > video is probably an integrated Intel GMA 3100 device. Intel seems to > be feeding driver support into X.org. So if it isn't supported now, > it should be soon. > > I'm not saying that it is easy to get all this working, only that it > is likely that it can be done. Google for other folks' experience. I would think an intel video chipset would work with a current x.org i810 driver. Not sure though. The 530s can optionally have an ATI X1300, which is likely to be a bigger pain to get working than the X3100 intel. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 29 22:20:09 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:20:09 -0400 Subject: Your Mer1dia 0rder #8867587 In-Reply-To: <20070829171207.GH11129-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1188400162.46d58c22cdee4@webmail.golden.net> <20070829171207.GH11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Actually yes, I did get a similar spam. I was wondering after the original post her and realized that if it has been send in mass mailing to this group than I should have receive it as well. After checking the spam folder I found a letter with the following headers. This time Reply-To was set to my own address, so one might think that it did not make sense to send a message in that way, and without a contact address. But now, it make sense. At the end of the message there was URL address to a web site. I did not bother to check what is there. Now, when spam filretring works better and better, these people use more and more sophisticated social tricks to get their attention... zb. Delivered-To: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Received: by 10.143.162.4 with SMTP id p4cs66059wfo; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.115.107.1 with SMTP id j1mr702628wam.1188407896333; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from 209.85.147.114 ([221.148.203.15]) by mx.google.com with SMTP id g25si9298339wag.2007.08.29.10.17.49; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 221.148.203.15 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of dave-a8GzhnWS74A9ruZUYCyO/2p9QXPmyE46 at public.gmane.org) client-ip=221.148.203.15; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral smtp.mail=dave-a8GzhnWS74A9ruZUYCyO/2p9QXPmyE46 at public.gmane.org X-Originating-IP: 168.188.30.0 by smtp.124.161.97.19; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:15:20 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Bridget Lane" Reply-To: "Bridget Lane" To: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Subject: Your Prov1gil/Modaf1nil 0rder #198649 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:15:20 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 29 23:06:05 2007 From: paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org (Paul Nash) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:06:05 -0400 Subject: FC6 unable to get out of local network In-Reply-To: <20070829131841.GF11129-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070829131841.GF11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: >Can other machines go through the same gateway? Yup. Normal access + traceroute from other boxes works fine. Incoming and outgoing on local network is fine, no access past the local network for this device. Tried a different ether NIC and different router (switched the Cisco for a D-Link or something similar), same problem. The fact that tcpdump doesn't see ICMP packets, and only sees live traffic (eg: ssh session) about 15 seconds *after* the packet has come in and been replied to makes me think that it may be some sort of kernel wierdness or a hardware problem. paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 00:39:51 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:39:51 -0400 Subject: OT-Repurposing PDAs In-Reply-To: References: <20070826135946.de74uqshajtw0g88@www.matthewmiddleton.ca>, <46D25461.5050500@utoronto.ca>, Message-ID: <46D5D997.7375.14B5991@sciguy.vex.net> > On 8/27/07, Jamon Camisso wrote: > The M130 is an old 8MB M68K unit with no MMU, so that there's barely > anything you can do with Linux on it. uCLinux on Palm 68K has always > been a "proof of concept" thing as opposed to actually being terribly > useful for anything. Linux has a PDA interface for the m130 running Palm OS. I forgot the name of it, but you can at least perform seemingly any function that the m130 does. I still use an m130, and even have a mini keyboard for it. I used it when I had debian installed, and it had to be downloaded separately. Of course, this is not repurposing, this is using the palm pilot for its intended purpose, so I don't know if that is what you want. But at least it clears the air about the m130 not being useful in linux. I know you meant the m130s OS, but at least I wanted to clear the air regarding its use under Linux. Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 11:11:12 2007 From: jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jon Thiele) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 07:11:12 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions Message-ID: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> Almost all of my small business clients run the same setup: CENTOS on their file server and flexbackup as backup software to a Seagate STT220000A 10/20GB tape drive. I love these drives. I've used them almost exclusively for the last 8 years. They are cheap ($200), last 4 or 5 years under normal load and easy to use. However, last week I discovered that I have a problem. A client's tape drive failed and I found out that Seagate/Quantum no longer make these drives - in fact, I can't find a single distributor (TechData, DirectDial, EMJ) in Canada that has stock... (Refurbished - yes, new - no.) I'm now looking for a new, long term solution. I've thought of moving to 8GB or 16GB USB RAM drives (reliability problems???), I played with using daily USB external hard drives (kind of hard to put in your purse to take home every night...), I looked into online backup solutions (most of them for some unknown reason want Windows...), someone suggested the IOMEGA REV removable hard drive (are they going to be around in 5 years???), I've looked at more expensive SCSI drives (large initial cost > $1,200), and I've even thought of setting up my own backup site where I would go in every night and grab the modified files from each client (do I really want to do this???). So, can I pick your collective brains??? What cheap, offsite, easy-to-use, backup solutions do you use for your Linux servers??? Your suggestions are appreciated. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 12:33:16 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:33:16 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> Message-ID: On 8/30/07, Jon Thiele wrote: > Almost all of my small business clients run the same setup: CENTOS on their > file server and flexbackup as backup software to a Seagate STT220000A > 10/20GB tape drive. I love these drives. I've used them almost exclusively > for the last 8 years. They are cheap ($200), last 4 or 5 years under normal > load and easy to use. However, last week I discovered that I have a > problem. A client's tape drive failed and I found out that Seagate/Quantum > no longer make these drives - in fact, I can't find a single distributor > (TechData, DirectDial, EMJ) in Canada that has stock... (Refurbished - yes, > new - no.) > > I'm now looking for a new, long term solution. I've thought of moving to > 8GB or 16GB USB RAM drives (reliability problems???), I played with using > daily USB external hard drives (kind of hard to put in your purse to take > home every night...), I looked into online backup solutions (most of them > for some unknown reason want Windows...), someone suggested the IOMEGA REV > removable hard drive (are they going to be around in 5 years???), I've > looked at more expensive SCSI drives (large initial cost > $1,200), and I've > even thought of setting up my own backup site where I would go in every > night and grab the modified files from each client (do I really want to do > this???). > > So, can I pick your collective brains??? What cheap, offsite, easy-to-use, > backup solutions do you use for your Linux servers??? Your suggestions are > appreciated. The direction that backups have been going has generally been away from tape, and towards the use of extra disk drives. Stick a 500GB drive in a USB2 carrier and you have something that can be rotated offsite periodically. If that seems fragile, you can get 250GB laptop drives that should be more robust against light knocks, both being smaller, and specifically designed for the higher-motion laptop environment. A 250GB laptop drive is $215 at Canada Computers, and a Vantec NexStar case is about $20. It's a bit cheaper for 500GB drives, but they're obviously more fragile. The act of having multiple locations for an enterprise gives redundancy right away, which makes it more reasonable to keep copies of things at both locations. The need to keep tapes off-site falls, considerably; the risks that are big enough to cause both sites to get destroyed are likely to be company-destroying anyways. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 12:49:49 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:49:49 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> Message-ID: <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> I still think that rotating tapes is cheaper and safer than disks. For speed many companies are moving to disk backups for quick restores but, these disk backups are copied to tapes for off site storage and rotation. It is a common for companies to fail in planning for long term data recovery. They pay lip service to laws like SOX by storing tapes off site for years. However, they do not ensure that they have the ability to recover that data from tape when the time comes. Five years from now will they be able to read the tape or the Exchange 5.5 data stored on it? To this end one needs to create a data retention policy to cover all aspects of backup and restore. What will be backed up? How long will the data be kept? How will the data be restored to the user the on the day before it is officially expired? Working to that end, if you buy another tape drive I suggest you buy two and put one in storage with your off site tapes. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 7 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Alexander.Short-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 13:12:17 2007 From: Alexander.Short-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Alexander Short) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:12:17 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> Message-ID: I fell into the similar situation where in a single-machine environment, the computer was stolen, and with it went the most recent backup tape but more importantly the drive. At the time the replacement drive on a weekend was _impossible_ to purchase, fortunately I called about 40 ISPs/Computer stores before I found someone that had one in the back room and for $50 bucks would dump the data to a drive. >From there on in, I switched to a DVD burner for backup. The negative is size restrictions, but if you can manage, at least you'll have something that should be fairly readable in 5 years time. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jon Thiele Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 7:11 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Backup Solutions Almost all of my small business clients run the same setup: CENTOS on their file server and flexbackup as backup software to a Seagate STT220000A 10/20GB tape drive. I love these drives. I've used them almost exclusively for the last 8 years. They are cheap ($200), last 4 or 5 years under normal load and easy to use. However, last week I discovered that I have a problem. A client's tape drive failed and I found out that Seagate/Quantum no longer make these drives - in fact, I can't find a single distributor (TechData, DirectDial, EMJ) in Canada that has stock... (Refurbished - yes, new - no.) I'm now looking for a new, long term solution. I've thought of moving to 8GB or 16GB USB RAM drives (reliability problems???), I played with using daily USB external hard drives (kind of hard to put in your purse to take home every night...), I looked into online backup solutions (most of them for some unknown reason want Windows...), someone suggested the IOMEGA REV removable hard drive (are they going to be around in 5 years???), I've looked at more expensive SCSI drives (large initial cost > $1,200), and I've even thought of setting up my own backup site where I would go in every night and grab the modified files from each client (do I really want to do this???). So, can I pick your collective brains??? What cheap, offsite, easy-to-use, backup solutions do you use for your Linux servers??? Your suggestions are appreciated. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 13:44:22 2007 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:44:22 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> Message-ID: <20070830134422.71B8C854F8@sarg.ryerson.ca> Depending on the bandwidth available, you might do as I have done. I have a backup machine, let's call it backup.foo.org, and clients c1.org, c2.org. Then on backup I create accounts c1, c2 with the following /etc/passwd entries: c1:x:990:990:C1 Backup:/home/c1:/home/c1/Start c2:x:990:990:C2 Backup:/home/c2:/home/c2/Start Then I put the executable file Start as follows: #! /bin/sh case "$1.$2" in -c.save) umask 077 N=`date +%Y-%m-%d-%H-%M` cat >save-$N.tar.gz ls -l save-$N.tar.gz exit 0;; -c.list) ls -l save-*.tar.gz exit 0;; *) echo Error exit 1 ;; esac in each home directory. I set up ssh for each of them and copy the pub file to the client systems. Then I put a cron job on the clients that looks something like: 0 1 * * * tar zcf - dir1 dir2 | ssh c1-QYmCcGDK76Yu87cJ84SUZA at public.gmane.org save I say "something like" because I don't have access to those machines anymore, so I'm going by memory. Worked like a charm. On the backup machine I would go in once a month or so and delete all but every 10th backup. If this is too much storage or bandwidth, doing full backup on Sundays and doing incrementals the other days has worked very well for me in other contexts. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 14:32:47 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:32:47 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> Message-ID: <20070830143247.GK11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 07:11:12AM -0400, Jon Thiele wrote: > Almost all of my small business clients run the same setup: CENTOS on their > file server and flexbackup as backup software to a Seagate STT220000A > 10/20GB tape drive. I love these drives. I've used them almost exclusively > for the last 8 years. They are cheap ($200), last 4 or 5 years under normal > load and easy to use. However, last week I discovered that I have a > problem. A client's tape drive failed and I found out that Seagate/Quantum > no longer make these drives - in fact, I can't find a single distributor > (TechData, DirectDial, EMJ) in Canada that has stock... (Refurbished - yes, > new - no.) > > I'm now looking for a new, long term solution. I've thought of moving to > 8GB or 16GB USB RAM drives (reliability problems???), I played with using > daily USB external hard drives (kind of hard to put in your purse to take > home every night...), I looked into online backup solutions (most of them > for some unknown reason want Windows...), someone suggested the IOMEGA REV > removable hard drive (are they going to be around in 5 years???), I've > looked at more expensive SCSI drives (large initial cost > $1,200), and I've > even thought of setting up my own backup site where I would go in every > night and grab the modified files from each client (do I really want to do > this???). > > So, can I pick your collective brains??? What cheap, offsite, easy-to-use, > backup solutions do you use for your Linux servers??? Your suggestions are > appreciated. A 500GB SATA drive in an enclosure really does work. We use that at work, instead of the DVD backups we used to make. We rotate through 3 drives on a weekly basis. At under $200 with taxes per drive and enclosure they are great. USB2.0 and eSATA support. We just leave on power supply and usb cable attached to the server at all times and swap out the drive. The enclosure we use is the Vantec NST-360SU (got them at Canada Computers). I am actually going to go get another one today for my wife to backup her laptop to. I find that unless you have a very very large system to backup, tape drives are too much trouble. Anyone can read a USB/eSATA drive containing a normal filesystem. Finding a way to restore your backup data from tape isn't easy. After all if the building burns down and you have to buy all new servers, can you even get the tape drives for the new servers to restore your backups? If the answer is no or not sure, then your backups are essentially useless. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 14:50:05 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:50:05 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> Message-ID: <1188485405.4900.25.camel@stan64.site> I am having to decide on an issue similar, also need to send a copy to client on regular interval, may consider blueray, media will be cheap as dirt soon, and very reliable, reasonable storage size. Burner is about 800$ now i believe. Burn will probably be half that in a year. The capacity of blueray is just right for me too. -tl On Thu, 2007-08-30 at 07:11 -0400, Jon Thiele wrote: > Almost all of my small business clients run the same setup: CENTOS on their > file server and flexbackup as backup software to a Seagate STT220000A > 10/20GB tape drive. I love these drives. I've used them almost exclusively > for the last 8 years. They are cheap ($200), last 4 or 5 years under normal > load and easy to use. However, last week I discovered that I have a > problem. A client's tape drive failed and I found out that Seagate/Quantum > no longer make these drives - in fact, I can't find a single distributor > (TechData, DirectDial, EMJ) in Canada that has stock... (Refurbished - yes, > new - no.) > > I'm now looking for a new, long term solution. I've thought of moving to > 8GB or 16GB USB RAM drives (reliability problems???), I played with using > daily USB external hard drives (kind of hard to put in your purse to take > home every night...), I looked into online backup solutions (most of them > for some unknown reason want Windows...), someone suggested the IOMEGA REV > removable hard drive (are they going to be around in 5 years???), I've > looked at more expensive SCSI drives (large initial cost > $1,200), and I've > even thought of setting up my own backup site where I would go in every > night and grab the modified files from each client (do I really want to do > this???). > > So, can I pick your collective brains??? What cheap, offsite, easy-to-use, > backup solutions do you use for your Linux servers??? Your suggestions are > appreciated. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 15:54:10 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:54:10 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <1188485405.4900.25.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <1188485405.4900.25.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <7ac602420708300854p6b9146c5lf1f9cb621770879c@mail.gmail.com> I'm using rdiff-backup (http://rdiff-backup.nongnu.org/) to make daily incremental backups to a local machine with a pair of mirrored 500GB drives in it. I plan to eventually create a remote, encrypted copy of the local backup on Amazon's S3 once a week, or so. If I was a business, with money to spend on backup solutions, I'd use http://rsync.net/. Someone from this list recommended rsync.net. I looked over their site and it looks like a really useful system. The only problem for me was the price--my data is valuable to me, but I can't afford them when Amazon's S3 is going to be less than half the price. Also, it's hard to define "mission critical" for personal data. If I have to recover from a catastrophic failure, it's OK if it takes me a couple of days or weeks. It sounds like rsync.net hires people whose job it is to make sure you're back up and running ASAP. That feature might be worth money to a business. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 16:11:49 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:11:49 +0000 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <20070830124949.GA31598-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On 8/30/07, Neil Watson wrote: > I still think that rotating tapes is cheaper and safer than disks. For > speed many companies are moving to disk backups for quick restores but, > these disk backups are copied to tapes for off site storage and > rotation. The thing is, the improvements in disk drive technology have NOT been generally getting applied to tape drive technology, with the result that the speed and size of disk drives have been growing steadily, whereas the same is not true for tape. - Travan maxxes out at 20GB for ~$500 - LTO maxxes out at 400GB, and costs thousand$ - DAT maxxes out at 80GB, for ~$1K - AIT maxxes out at 400GB, for thousand$ And generally speaking, media for tape drives costs only very slightly less, per GB, than SATA/IDE drives. You can buy a dozen USB-connected drives with enclosures for about the same price as a DAT/AIT drive plus a dozen tapes. Periodically, you'll have to replace disk drives, but the same was true for tapes... > It is a common for companies to fail in planning for long term data > recovery. They pay lip service to laws like SOX by storing tapes off > site for years. However, they do not ensure that they have the ability > to recover that data from tape when the time comes. Five years from now > will they be able to read the tape or the Exchange 5.5 data stored on > it? Will they be able to buy a tape drive that can still read the media? If they're backing up on a disk drive, then there is the very significant merit that they can, at any time, plug one of the backups into a computer, mount it, and have some hope of connecting it to (say) an Exchange server to test the ability to read the data. > To this end one needs to create a data retention policy to cover all > aspects of backup and restore. What will be backed up? How long will > the data be kept? How will the data be restored to the user the on the > day before it is officially expired? Working to that end, if you buy > another tape drive I suggest you buy two and put one in storage with > your off site tapes. All good questions. If these aren't answered, then it doesn't matter what media you're using to do the backups, you're likely to have useless results. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 16:19:34 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:19:34 -0400 Subject: PostgreSQL SELECT question Message-ID: <46D6EE16.1090803@alteeve.com> Hi all, I am pretty sure I've done this before, but I am drawing a blank on how I did it or even what commands I need. Missing the later makes it hard to search. :P I've got Postfix working using PostgreSQL as the backend on a small, simple test database where I have a simple table called 'users' with a column called 'usr_email' which holds, surprisingly, the user's email address (ie: 'mkelly-J0of1frlU80 at public.gmane.org'). To tell Postfix where the user's email inbox is (to write incoming email to) I tell it to do this query: SELECT substring(usr_email FROM '@(.*)')||'/'||substring(usr_email FROM '(.*)@')||'/inbox' AS email_file FROM users WHERE usr_email='mkelly-J0of1frlU80 at public.gmane.org'; Which returns: email_file ----------------------- test.com/mkelly/inbox Now I want to move to a more complex database where the email name comes from 'users' -> 'usr_email' (ie: 'mkelly') and the domain suffix comes from 'domains' -> 'dom_name' (ie: 'test.com'). The problem is, I am limited to how I can tell Postfix to generate the query. Specifically, I can't (or don't know how to) tell Postfix to create a join or split the email address. I can only tell Postfix what table to query, what the SELECT field to use, and what column to do the WHERE on. So, my question, Can I create a 'virtual table' table (or some such) that would take something like?: SELECT email_file FROM virtual_table WHERE email_addy='mkelly-J0of1frlU80 at public.gmane.org'; Where the email_addy can be split to create this query: SELECT b.dom_name||'/'||a.usr_email||'/inbox' AS email_file FROM users a, domains b WHERE a.usr_dom_id=b.dom_id AND a.usr_email='mkelly' AND b.dom_name='test.com'; Which would still return: email_file ----------------------- test.com/mkelly/inbox I hope I got the question across well enough. :) Thanks all! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 16:40:23 2007 From: fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (asdf) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: OT: Toshiba laptops - reliability and build quality Message-ID: <436398.41158.qm@web51805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> (off-topic posting... regarding laptops) Anyone on this list have experience with Toshiba laptops (the Satellite A200 series in particular)? Care to comment on your experience with them esp. regarding reliability and overall build quality? There's a particular Toshiba Satellite model on sale at Future Shop at the moment that appears to be a good deal: Toshiba Core2 Duo T5300 1.73GHz Laptop (A200-AH9) http://tinyurl.com/26tt75 However, when I was in a Future Shop store close to where I live in Toronto I happened to ask one of the sales associates about the reliability of Toshiba laptops. In response, the SA took me inside the service/repair area of the store and I was shocked to see something like 7 or 8 Toshiba laptops in there for various repair issues. The only other brands I saw in there were HP. The problem is that I am stuck with Future Shop gift certificates and need to get a laptop. And only the above Toshiba model sports a Core 2 Duo processor which is what I want to get. So, I'd like to hear about other TLUGers experiences (good and bad) with Toshiba laptops. Thanks! Salman Ahmed ____________________________________________________________________________________ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 16:53:35 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:53:35 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070830165335.GB31598@watson-wilson.ca> On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 04:11:49PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: >You can buy a dozen USB-connected drives with enclosures for about the >same price as a DAT/AIT drive plus a dozen tapes. Periodically, >you'll have to replace disk drives, but the same was true for tapes... You can stack tapes in boxes and truck them off to Iron Mountain or your own safety deposit box via your bicycle. Would you bet your data integrity and possibly your job on a disk surviving such transport and environmental hazards? Hard drives are the most fragile part of any modern computer. Suggesting that they be used as portable backup media is very risky >> They pay lip service to laws like SOX by storing tapes off site for >> years. However, they do not ensure that they have the ability to >> recover that data from tape when the time comes. Five years from now >> will they be able to read the tape or the Exchange 5.5 data stored on >> it? >Will they be able to buy a tape drive that can still read the media? That's by you buy two drives. Another option is to regularly migrate old backups to newer media. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 7 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 16:58:27 2007 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:58:27 -0400 Subject: Toshiba laptops Message-ID: <46D6F733.8030905@rogers.com> I had a Satellite 5003 which died after 14 months of use due to a poorly designed cooling system which was unrepairable. I was fortunate to have purchased an extended warranty, so I was able to replace it with an Acer at no cost to me. At the time that I was searching out possible replacements, I saw reports on Tux Mobil that Toshiba uses a funky method of accessing SATA drives and that this can make installing Linux difficult to impossible. I wouldn't buy a Toshiba again. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 17:03:47 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:03:47 -0400 Subject: OT: Toshiba laptops - reliability and build quality In-Reply-To: <436398.41158.qm-4xim6713zGWB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <436398.41158.qm@web51805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070830170347.GL11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 09:40:23AM -0700, asdf wrote: > (off-topic posting... regarding laptops) > > Anyone on this list have experience with Toshiba laptops (the Satellite A200 series > in particular)? Care to comment on your experience with them esp. regarding > reliability and overall build quality? > > There's a particular Toshiba Satellite model on sale at Future Shop at the moment > that appears to be a good deal: > > Toshiba Core2 Duo T5300 1.73GHz Laptop (A200-AH9) > http://tinyurl.com/26tt75 Well intel CPU and chipset gives decent chance of Linux support. 2GB ram is nice. 200GB HD is impresive for a laptop. 15.4" 1280x800 is quite common. 2.72kg is rather good for something with a 15.4" screen and a claimed 4 hour battery life. All for $1000 is actually a pretty good deal by the looks of it. It also appears to be out of stock at most futureshop locations (although not all). > However, when I was in a Future Shop store close to where I live in Toronto I > happened to ask one of the sales associates about the reliability of Toshiba > laptops. In response, the SA took me inside the service/repair area of the store and > I was shocked to see something like 7 or 8 Toshiba laptops in there for various > repair issues. The only other brands I saw in there were HP. > > The problem is that I am stuck with Future Shop gift certificates and need to get a > laptop. And only the above Toshiba model sports a Core 2 Duo processor which is what > I want to get. > > So, I'd like to hear about other TLUGers experiences (good and bad) with Toshiba > laptops. Well I have in the past gotten a Compaq (HP) laptop at FutureShop. From it I have learned that consumer laptops from brand names are pretty much junk and I will never buy another one. My wife's current laptop is an Asus R1F-K018E which is way better build quality than the Compaq, and not that much more expensive. The warrenty is better too than the Compaq and I don't think the power connector is likely to fail on the Asus either since it actually looks solid while the Compaq looked flimpsy (and it was). Nothing is built quite like a Thinkpad, but they cost a lost more (probably double of the Asus for anything close to equivalant). My only experience with Toshiba was a number of years ago, and the problem was that they had invented their own pcmcia controller that Linux didn't like. I was not impressed, but it wasn't my laptop I was just helping out. :) On the other hand the Toshiba can't possibly be worse than the HP/Compaq models in quality. If you expect it to last more than 2 to 3 years, you should probably go buy something meant for business users instead, or maybe a Mac. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 17:06:20 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:06:20 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <20070830165335.GB31598-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830165335.GB31598@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070830170620.GM11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 12:53:35PM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > You can stack tapes in boxes and truck them off to Iron Mountain or your > own safety deposit box via your bicycle. Would you bet your data > integrity and possibly your job on a disk surviving such transport and > environmental hazards? Hard drives are the most fragile part of any > modern computer. Suggesting that they be used as portable backup media > is very risky Actually modern harddisks seem pretty darn sturdy. Some tape formats I wouldn't even be sure would read back reliably 5 minutes after writing it (like say DDS). Perhaps those new 32GB solid state disks then, except then tape might start to look affordable again. > That's by you buy two drives. Another option is to regularly migrate > old backups to newer media. That sounds like a lot of (expensive) work. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 17:07:16 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:07:16 -0400 Subject: Toshiba laptops In-Reply-To: <46D6F733.8030905-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <46D6F733.8030905@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070830170716.GN11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 12:58:27PM -0400, John McGregor wrote: > I had a Satellite 5003 which died after 14 months of use due to a poorly > designed cooling system which was unrepairable. I was fortunate to have > purchased an extended warranty, so I was able to replace it with an Acer > at no cost to me. At the time that I was searching out possible > replacements, I saw reports on Tux Mobil that Toshiba uses a funky > method of accessing SATA drives and that this can make installing Linux > difficult to impossible. I wouldn't buy a Toshiba again. Is funky in this case similar to what Dell's do just to make installing XP easier (that is to run in IDE emulation mode)? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 18:15:01 2007 From: drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Donnell Stratton) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:15:01 -0500 Subject: Dreams can cost less repl1ca w4tches from r0lex here Message-ID: Everybody knows that a Cart1er w4tch is a silent statement of wealth and luxury. But we all know as well that the price of putting one of them on your wrist is for the most unaffordable by the average Joe. That??s why repl1ca Cart1er w4tches are becoming more and more popular by the day. They??re actually the affordable solution to this dilemma. And thanks to the internet, there is now a place where the highest quality Cart1er repl1cas are available: Prest1ge Repl1cas. So, why not take a look at the extensive inventory that this site has to offer? After all, browsing through their hundreds of Cart1er w4tches is absolutely free, and buying the one of your dreams is simply inexpensive. http://www.spelwikkj.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 17:25:51 2007 From: fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (asdf) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: OT: Toshiba laptops - reliability and build quality In-Reply-To: <20070830170347.GL11129-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070830170347.GL11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <448181.12136.qm@web51806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Well intel CPU and chipset gives decent chance of Linux support. 2GB > ram is nice. 200GB HD is impresive for a laptop. 15.4" 1280x800 is > quite common. 2.72kg is rather good for something with a 15.4" screen > and a claimed 4 hour battery life. All for $1000 is actually a pretty > good deal by the looks of it. It also appears to be out of stock at > most futureshop locations (although not all). My thoughts exactly... and it includes a Core 2 Duo CPU (not the older Pentium Dual Core or Core Duo CPUs). And the built-in Intel wireless card appears to be Linux compatible (via MadWifi). It's a pretty decent looking unit too but that's highly subjective of course. This Toshiba A200-AH9 is available at a few Future Shop locations in Scarborough but for some reason is showing as OOS (out of stock) on their website. > > Well I have in the past gotten a Compaq (HP) laptop at FutureShop. From > it I have learned that consumer laptops from brand names are pretty much > junk and I will never buy another one. > Good to know. From what I've seen at Future Shop, I am not convinced of any of the brand names' reliability. The Acer laptops looked decent but FS isn't carrying very many Acer models. > > On the other hand the Toshiba can't possibly be > worse than the HP/Compaq models in quality. If you expect it to last > more than 2 to 3 years, you should probably go buy something meant for > business users instead, or maybe a Mac. > I am leaning towards Dell at the moment. For around $1050.00 before taxes I can get a similar or better spec-ed system compared to the Toshiba model that I was so interested in before. Cheers, Salman Ahmed ____________________________________________________________________________________ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 17:28:01 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:28:01 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <20070830170620.GM11129-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830165335.GB31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830170620.GM11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070830172801.GC31598@watson-wilson.ca> On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 01:06:20PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> That's by you buy two drives. Another option is to regularly migrate >> old backups to newer media. > >That sounds like a lot of (expensive) work. It is but, if one is legally mandated to provide data years after it was backed up then the price must be paid. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 7 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 17:49:20 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:49:20 -0400 Subject: PostgreSQL SELECT question In-Reply-To: <46D6EE16.1090803-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46D6EE16.1090803@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420708301049t1765397r802900464145cae9@mail.gmail.com> I think you want a view. Something like this: CREATE VIEW virtual_table AS ; Also, have a look at \h CREATE VIEW in psql. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 18:02:51 2007 From: maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:02:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <20070830172801.GC31598-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830165335.GB31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830170620.GM11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070830172801.GC31598@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: I just rsync regularly between one home and one work computers and one or two old laptops? Now I am wondering if this is good enough or if I need to be doing something else on top of that? Though its only my own data, losing it would pose a big cost. Does this seem reasonably or do you think I should be adding some extra safe-gaurds? Alex On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Neil Watson wrote: > On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 01:06:20PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> That's by you buy two drives. Another option is to regularly migrate >>> old backups to newer media. >> >> That sounds like a lot of (expensive) work. > > It is but, if one is legally mandated to provide data years after it was > backed up then the price must be paid. > > -- > Neil Watson | Debian Linux > System Administrator | Uptime 7 days > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 17:56:15 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:56:15 -0400 Subject: PostgreSQL SELECT question In-Reply-To: <7ac602420708301049t1765397r802900464145cae9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <46D6EE16.1090803@alteeve.com> <7ac602420708301049t1765397r802900464145cae9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46D704BF.7030101@alteeve.com> Ian Petersen wrote: > I think you want a view. Something like this: > > CREATE VIEW virtual_table AS ; > > Also, have a look at \h CREATE VIEW in psql. > > Ian > I read up on VIEWs (http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.1/interactive/sql-createview.html) but it doesn't show any examples. I can't figure out mainly how to split the email address provided by postfix into two sections of the query... Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 18:06:29 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:06:29 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830165335.GB31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830170620.GM11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070830172801.GC31598@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070830180629.GD31598@watson-wilson.ca> On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 02:02:51PM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: >I just rsync regularly between one home and one work computers and one or >two old laptops? Now I am wondering if this is good enough or if I need >to be doing something else on top of that? Though its only my own data, >losing it would pose a big cost. Does this seem reasonably or do you think >I should be adding some extra safe-gaurds? It depends on what type of data loss you want to protect yourself from. When you use rsync what happens to files at the backup location that were deleted at the source? Using your rsync method can you restore a historical file? -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 7 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 18:09:37 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:09:37 -0400 Subject: PostgreSQL SELECT question In-Reply-To: <46D6EE16.1090803-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46D6EE16.1090803@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <79202F95-DBF7-4B45-91F1-18EC5541C8B1@visibleassets.com> Madison, Try looking up views in postgresql, or rules Dave On 30-Aug-07, at 12:19 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I am pretty sure I've done this before, but I am drawing a blank on > how I did it or even what commands I need. Missing the later makes it > hard to search. :P > > I've got Postfix working using PostgreSQL as the backend on a small, > simple test database where I have a simple table called 'users' with a > column called 'usr_email' which holds, surprisingly, the user's email > address (ie: 'mkelly-J0of1frlU80 at public.gmane.org'). > > To tell Postfix where the user's email inbox is (to write incoming > email to) I tell it to do this query: > > SELECT > substring(usr_email FROM '@(.*)')||'/'||substring(usr_email FROM > '(.*)@')||'/inbox' > AS > email_file > FROM > users > WHERE > usr_email='mkelly-J0of1frlU80 at public.gmane.org'; > > Which returns: > > email_file > ----------------------- > test.com/mkelly/inbox > > Now I want to move to a more complex database where the email name > comes from 'users' -> 'usr_email' (ie: 'mkelly') and the domain suffix > comes from 'domains' -> 'dom_name' (ie: 'test.com'). > > The problem is, I am limited to how I can tell Postfix to generate > the query. Specifically, I can't (or don't know how to) tell > Postfix to > create a join or split the email address. I can only tell Postfix what > table to query, what the SELECT field to use, and what column to do > the > WHERE on. > > So, my question, > > Can I create a 'virtual table' table (or some such) that would take > something like?: > > SELECT email_file FROM virtual_table WHERE > email_addy='mkelly-J0of1frlU80 at public.gmane.org'; > > Where the email_addy can be split to create this query: > > SELECT > b.dom_name||'/'||a.usr_email||'/inbox' > AS > email_file > FROM > users a, domains b > WHERE > a.usr_dom_id=b.dom_id > AND > a.usr_email='mkelly' > AND > b.dom_name='test.com'; > > Which would still return: > > email_file > ----------------------- > test.com/mkelly/inbox > > > I hope I got the question across well enough. :) > > Thanks all! > > Madi > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 18:09:40 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:09:40 -0400 Subject: PostgreSQL SELECT question In-Reply-To: <46D704BF.7030101-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <46D6EE16.1090803@alteeve.com> <7ac602420708301049t1765397r802900464145cae9@mail.gmail.com> <46D704BF.7030101@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420708301109q172ed990n1817fa8e72cea530@mail.gmail.com> Sorry, I didn't really parse all the SQL you posted in your original email. I assumed that you would create a view that performs the necessary join to recreate the old table structure from the new structure. If you did that, then the existing query you're using to get the file from the email address should still work. I suppose you want something like this: CREATE VIEW address_to_filesystem AS SELECT u.usr_email || '@' || d.dom_name as address, d.dom_name || '/' || u.usr_email || '/inbox' as file FROM users u JOIN domains d ON u.usr_dom_id = d.dom_id; The above should create a view with fields address and file where the address is 'user at domain' and the file is 'user/domain/inbox'. Then you can tell Postfix to SELECT file FROM address_to_filesystem WHERE address = 'user at domain'; HTH, Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 18:10:37 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:10:37 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <20070830180629.GD31598-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830165335.GB31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830170620.GM11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070830172801.GC31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830180629.GD31598@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <46D7081D.3050506@utoronto.ca> Neil Watson wrote: > On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 02:02:51PM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: >> I just rsync regularly between one home and one work computers and one >> or two old laptops? Now I am wondering if this is good enough or if I >> need >> to be doing something else on top of that? Though its only my own data, >> losing it would pose a big cost. Does this seem reasonably or do you >> think I should be adding some extra safe-gaurds? > > It depends on what type of data loss you want to protect yourself from. > When you use rsync what happens to files at the backup location that > were deleted at the source? Using your rsync method can you restore a > historical file? No reason you can't rsync a daily/weekly tarball that has all said files. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 18:28:02 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:28:02 -0400 Subject: PostgreSQL SELECT question In-Reply-To: <7ac602420708301109q172ed990n1817fa8e72cea530-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <46D6EE16.1090803@alteeve.com> <7ac602420708301049t1765397r802900464145cae9@mail.gmail.com> <46D704BF.7030101@alteeve.com> <7ac602420708301109q172ed990n1817fa8e72cea530@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46D70C32.9020909@alteeve.com> Ian Petersen wrote: > Sorry, I didn't really parse all the SQL you posted in your original > email. I assumed that you would create a view that performs the > necessary join to recreate the old table structure from the new > structure. If you did that, then the existing query you're using to > get the file from the email address should still work. > > I suppose you want something like this: > > CREATE VIEW address_to_filesystem AS > SELECT u.usr_email || '@' || d.dom_name as address, > d.dom_name || '/' || u.usr_email || '/inbox' as file > FROM users u JOIN domains d ON u.usr_dom_id = d.dom_id; > > The above should create a view with fields address and file where the > address is 'user at domain' and the file is 'user/domain/inbox'. Then > you can tell Postfix to > > SELECT file FROM address_to_filesystem WHERE address = 'user at domain'; > > HTH, > Ian > Ian, you rock! That works like a charm. I am duly humbled. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 18:31:51 2007 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:31:51 -0400 Subject: OT: Toshiba laptops - reliability and build quality In-Reply-To: <436398.41158.qm-4xim6713zGWB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <436398.41158.qm@web51805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 8/30/07, asdf wrote: > (off-topic posting... regarding laptops) > > Anyone on this list have experience with Toshiba laptops (the Satellite A200 series > in particular)? Care to comment on your experience with them esp. regarding > reliability and overall build quality? I've had a satellite P-100 from tigerdirect for the past year without problems. I'm running ubuntu 7.04. The only real hiccup I've had is there's no sound. Although a guy I work with got a satellite P-200 I believe and he has sound. Cheers, Randy -- Oscar Developer McMaster University 75 Frid Street, Hamilton, ON 905 525 9140 x27735 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 18:46:15 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:46:15 -0400 Subject: [OT] Sony: uses a rootkit *again* Message-ID: <1e55af990708301146v4eea792bseac6f70b9b707abf@mail.gmail.com> Sony can't seem to keep its hands off its customers' hard drives. Earlier this week, two security companies found that fingerprint-scanning USB drives sold by the company install hidden software on users' computers, just two years after a similar tactic led to mass recalls of another Sony product and a string of lawsuits. http://www.forbes.com/technology/2007/08/29/sony-rootkit-security-tech-cx_ag_0829spyware.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 18:57:15 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:57:15 -0400 Subject: OT: Toshiba laptops - reliability and build quality In-Reply-To: <448181.12136.qm-r6rlgsx/m2yB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070830170347.GL11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <448181.12136.qm@web51806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070830185715.GO11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 10:25:51AM -0700, asdf wrote: > My thoughts exactly... and it includes a Core 2 Duo CPU (not the older Pentium Dual > Core or Core Duo CPUs). And the built-in Intel wireless card appears to be Linux > compatible (via MadWifi). It's a pretty decent looking unit too but that's highly > subjective of course. This Toshiba A200-AH9 is available at a few Future Shop > locations in Scarborough but for some reason is showing as OOS (out of stock) on > their website. I would think it was an intel 3945 wireless chip. Intel at least was submitting driver code to the kernel 3 or 4 months ago for that. Not sure what the current state is, but at least that was a good sign. Futureshop claims their inventory stuff is updated every hour, but some stores are very bad at maintaining the data so if the store has crappy data then the web site gets to have crappy data. > Good to know. From what I've seen at Future Shop, I am not convinced of any of the > brand names' reliability. The Acer laptops looked decent but FS isn't carrying very > many Acer models. Well Acer at least is a fairly large manufacturer, which also happens to do some direct to retail sales. I have never owned any acer products myself, but I don't think I have really heard any horror stories either. I figured the Asus laptop for my wife would be worth trying given I have been a happy Asus mainboard user for 14 years now (I won't buy anything else). > I am leaning towards Dell at the moment. For around $1050.00 before taxes I can get > a similar or better spec-ed system compared to the Toshiba model that I was so > interested in before. A friend recently had me look at their Dell laptop which wouldn't power on, charge or anything else related to power. Turns out there has been a large class action lawsuit in the US over it, and there is a lawyer in toronto trying to do the same in canada due to a systematic failure of the power system on the mainboard on the model (I believe it was a 5150). Dell may make OK business stuff, but in general their consumer stuff is as cheap and low quality as they think they can get away with. I only buy monitors and the occational UPS from Dell. No way would I consider their computers. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 18:57:58 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:57:58 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <20070830172801.GC31598-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830165335.GB31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830170620.GM11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070830172801.GC31598@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070830185758.GP11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 01:28:01PM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > It is but, if one is legally mandated to provide data years after it was > backed up then the price must be paid. Or a better backup method chosen. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 19:17:20 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:17:20 -0400 Subject: [OT] Sony: uses a rootkit *again* In-Reply-To: <1e55af990708301146v4eea792bseac6f70b9b707abf-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990708301146v4eea792bseac6f70b9b707abf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0708301217p496f5d7ejb88162d81edcc790@mail.gmail.com> On 8/30/07, Sy Ali wrote: > Sony can't seem to keep its hands off its customers' hard drives. > Earlier this week, two security companies found that > fingerprint-scanning USB drives sold by the company install hidden > software on users' computers, just two years after a similar tactic > led to mass recalls of another Sony product and a string of lawsuits. > > http://www.forbes.com/technology/2007/08/29/sony-rootkit-security-tech-cx_ag_0829spyware.html Yeah, read that one this morning. Unfortunately it isn't the only rootkit situation involving Sony in the last week or so: http://www.gamingbob.com/2007/08/23/bioshock-installs-rootkit-including-demo/ There are a bunch of comments that say SecuROM (by Sony DADC) is a rootkit, but others that disagree. In any event, I'll not knowingly purchase anything further from Sony. -- Scott Elcomb [ http://www.psema4.com/ ] "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 19:40:00 2007 From: maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:40:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <20070830180629.GD31598-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830165335.GB31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830170620.GM11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070830172801.GC31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830180629.GD31598@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Neil Watson wrote: > On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 02:02:51PM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: >> I just rsync regularly between one home and one work computers and one or >> two old laptops? Now I am wondering if this is good enough or if I need >> to be doing something else on top of that? Though its only my own data, >> losing it would pose a big cost. Does this seem reasonably or do you think >> I should be adding some extra safe-gaurds? > > It depends on what type of data loss you want to protect yourself from. > When you use rsync what happens to files at the backup location that > were deleted at the source? Using your rsync method can you restore a > historical file? Thank you. This is the part I worry about. If I corrupt a file on one computer, it will soon be corrupted on all. I guess I should keep some older backups that only change once a week/month as well? Alex > > -- > Neil Watson | Debian Linux > System Administrator | Uptime 7 days > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 19:40:47 2007 From: maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:40:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <46D7081D.3050506-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830165335.GB31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830170620.GM11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070830172801.GC31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830180629.GD31598@watson-wilson.ca> <46D7081D.3050506@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Neil Watson wrote: >> On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 02:02:51PM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: >>> I just rsync regularly between one home and one work computers and one or >>> two old laptops? Now I am wondering if this is good enough or if I need >>> to be doing something else on top of that? Though its only my own data, >>> losing it would pose a big cost. Does this seem reasonably or do you think >>> I should be adding some extra safe-gaurds? >> >> It depends on what type of data loss you want to protect yourself from. >> When you use rsync what happens to files at the backup location that >> were deleted at the source? Using your rsync method can you restore a >> historical file? > > No reason you can't rsync a daily/weekly tarball that has all said files. Thank you. That sounds like a good suggestion. Alex > > Jamon > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 19:44:18 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:44:18 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830165335.GB31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830170620.GM11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070830172801.GC31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830180629.GD31598@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070830194418.GQ11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 03:40:00PM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: > Thank you. This is the part I worry about. If I corrupt a file on one > computer, it will soon be corrupted on all. I guess I should keep some > older backups that only change once a week/month as well? Well rsnapshot uses rsync but keeps revisions from each transfer. I use it to keep revisions every couple of hours on a couple of servers. It can also of course transfer remotely by rsync and hence uses the standard regular amount of transfers of rsync, but with the advantage of keeping historical copies (and by using hardlinks to store the revisions, only files with changes require additional space to store). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 19:44:56 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:44:56 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830165335.GB31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830170620.GM11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070830172801.GC31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830180629.GD31598@watson-wilson.ca> <46D7081D.3050506@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070830194456.GR11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 03:40:47PM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: > Thank you. That sounds like a good suggestion. Pretty inefficient for both network bandwidth and storage space. See my other message for the efficient way to do it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 19:52:00 2007 From: vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Vic Gedris) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:52:00 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830165335.GB31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830170620.GM11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070830172801.GC31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830180629.GD31598@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <9858fafd0708301252t72f40f76k4a0bbcac424ad4d7@mail.gmail.com> On 8/30/07, Alex Maynard wrote: > > > It depends on what type of data loss you want to protect yourself from. > > When you use rsync what happens to files at the backup location that > > were deleted at the source? Using your rsync method can you restore a > > historical file? > > Thank you. This is the part I worry about. If I corrupt a file on one > computer, it will soon be corrupted on all. I guess I should keep some > older backups that only change once a week/month as well? Check out http://www.rsnapshot.org/ -vic -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 20:11:00 2007 From: maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:11:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <20070830194418.GQ11129-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830165335.GB31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830170620.GM11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070830172801.GC31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830180629.GD31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830194418.GQ11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 03:40:00PM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: >> Thank you. This is the part I worry about. If I corrupt a file on one >> computer, it will soon be corrupted on all. I guess I should keep some >> older backups that only change once a week/month as well? > > Well rsnapshot uses rsync but keeps revisions from each transfer. I use > it to keep revisions every couple of hours on a couple of servers. It > can also of course transfer remotely by rsync and hence uses the > standard regular amount of transfers of rsync, but with the advantage of > keeping historical copies (and by using hardlinks to store the > revisions, only files with changes require additional space to store). I don't change that many files that often so this suggestion should save a lot of hard-drive space for multiple backups. Thanks very much. Alex > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 20:23:47 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:23:47 -0400 Subject: Video Editing In-Reply-To: <20070829012848.2365c7b4-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <200708282223.13362.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20070828225938.416b5f88@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46D4F102.3010206@golden.net> <20070829012848.2365c7b4@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <46D72753.1020407@ve3syb.ca> JoeHill wrote: > I use Tovid myself, very very big fan. It's not so much for video _editing_, > though; more focused on dvd authoring, and in fact does that very quickly and > easily, especially if you are comfortable on the command line. Tovid is only available as a command line package? How does Tovid compare to the dvdauthor/qdvdauthor packages? -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 20:33:16 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:33:16 -0400 Subject: Video Editing In-Reply-To: <46D72753.1020407-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200708282223.13362.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20070828225938.416b5f88@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46D4F102.3010206@golden.net> <20070829012848.2365c7b4@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46D72753.1020407@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <46D7298C.4030807@utoronto.ca> Kevin Cozens wrote: > JoeHill wrote: >> I use Tovid myself, very very big fan. It's not so much for video >> _editing_, >> though; more focused on dvd authoring, and in fact does that very >> quickly and >> easily, especially if you are comfortable on the command line. > > Tovid is only available as a command line package? How does Tovid > compare to the dvdauthor/qdvdauthor packages? > What about LiVES for video editing? Myles pointed it out in the last Linux Journal or Linux Format. I don't do enough editing to know whether it's comparable to the other tools out there, but I like it. http://lives.sourceforge.net Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 21:08:10 2007 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:08:10 -0400 Subject: Using a handheld GPS for aviation Message-ID: <46d731b6.0e2b400a.06ae.ffffa0bd@mx.google.com> Hello all, I?ve managed to finally get all of the aviation waypoints onto my handheld GPS so that I can use it as a reference while flying. Thought this might interest a few people here and elsewhere, so I wrote up how I did it at the link below. It?s my first attempt at HOWTO, as any criticism is appreciate it. It was written with the aviation audience in mind, so I kept it simple and actually pointed out the Windows-oriented tools on purpose. It?s likely just as easy to do (if not easier) on Linux with GPSBabel, but I haven?t looked up the commands to do it ? I?ll add them to the doc if they?re forwarded my way. Lastly, does anyone have experience with custom mapping? It would be great to have full aviation maps on a handheld garmin, but that?s getting a little too advanced for me! Cheers, -kms No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.12/979 - Release Date: 2007-08-29 20:21 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 21:22:31 2007 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:22:31 -0400 Subject: Video Editing In-Reply-To: <46D72753.1020407-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200708282223.13362.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20070828225938.416b5f88@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46D4F102.3010206@golden.net> <20070829012848.2365c7b4@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <46D72753.1020407@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20070830172231.7bf1e90e@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Kevin Cozens left a post-it on the fridge: > JoeHill wrote: > > I use Tovid myself, very very big fan. It's not so much for video _editing_, > > though; more focused on dvd authoring, and in fact does that very quickly > > and easily, especially if you are comfortable on the command line. > > Tovid is only available as a command line package? How does Tovid compare to > the dvdauthor/qdvdauthor packages? Sorry, no I didn't phrase that properly... :-\ There is a Tovid GUI (in fact, you can even code your own custom GUI in Python), and it is fairly simple to use, though even the developers say it needs some work. However, like so many things, you can fire it off from the command line in about a tenth of the time it would take with the GUI. Tovid is like qdvdauthor in that is a front end for a whole series of apps, like dvdauthor and the various encoding tools like ffmpeg. I only very briefly tried qdvdauthor because a) it is QT/KDE, and I really hate that and b) it is way too complicated as a GUI when I can run one simple command with Tovid to do the encoding, and then use Todisc to create really nice menus for the DVD. Qdvdauthor does have some nice features, but I found them to be implemented in kind of a cumbersome and confusing way. Basically, to make a DVD with a simple menu using Tovid, it would go something like this: tovid -in infile -out encodedfile makemenu title -out dvdmenu makexml -menu dvdmenu.mpg encodedfile.mpg -out dvd makedvd -burn dvd.xml Now, if you want you can make very fancy animated menu's using Todisc instead of makemenu...again, there is a GUI, and a very nice one, but I'm still partial to the command line. This is an old one I used to create one of my Futurama DVD's: todisc -menu-title "S e a s o n 3" -menu-fontsize 32 -menu-font /home/joehill/.fonts/HANDGOTB.TTF -title-color DarkSlateGray -stroke-color WhiteSmoke -text-mist -text-mist-color LightSteelBlue4 -text-mist-opacity 90 -files -titles "Bender Gets Made" "Problem With Popplers" "Mothers Day" "Anthology of Interest" -thumb-font /home/joehill/.fonts/HANDGOTB.TTF -thumb-fontsize 10 -opacity 90 -thumb-text-color white -loop 4 -background futurama-s01e09-hell_is_other_robots.avi -bgaudio futurama-s01e09-hell_is_other_robots.avi -sameq -menu-length 23 -button-style rect -menu-fade -align south -seek 360 -out rama ...and that's a SHORT one! :) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Fry: You gotta help me, Bender. How can I prove I'm human? Bender: You could drop dead. That'd show 'em. Fry: I don't wanna. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 02:32:27 2007 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:32:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: References: <20070824135045.GH9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CEE89A.3000708@utoronto.ca> <46CEEBC4.1060904@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> Isn't ae the canonical editor for Debian? > > Isn't it Ubuntu that has a Canonical editor? ;) > > If the spots are not all taken, I'll join the pro-Emacs side. Thanks Chris. We have 2 for Emacs but no one is standing to defend the honour of vi or any of his clones. If we don't fill the spots shortly I'm going with plan B. Yeah I have a plan B :) Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 02:39:57 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:39:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: References: <20070824135045.GH9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CEE89A.3000708@utoronto.ca> <46CEEBC4.1060904@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > >> > Isn't ae the canonical editor for Debian? >> >> Isn't it Ubuntu that has a Canonical editor? ;) >> >> If the spots are not all taken, I'll join the pro-Emacs side. > > Thanks Chris. We have 2 for Emacs but no one is standing to defend the > honour of vi or any of his clones. Is that really surprising? > If we don't fill the spots shortly I'm going with plan B. Yeah I have a plan > B :) -- Chris F.A. Johnson ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 02:40:47 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:40:47 -0400 Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: References: <20070824135045.GH9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CEE89A.3000708@utoronto.ca> <46CEEBC4.1060904@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0708301940o44c522a0t3e7de7c876e3a5a1@mail.gmail.com> On 8/30/07, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > >> Isn't ae the canonical editor for Debian? > > > > Isn't it Ubuntu that has a Canonical editor? ;) > > > > If the spots are not all taken, I'll join the pro-Emacs side. > > Thanks Chris. We have 2 for Emacs but no one is standing to defend the > honour of vi or any of his clones. > > If we don't fill the spots shortly I'm going with plan B. Yeah I have a > plan B :) Ahhh, finally! GNU Nano! :P -- Scott Elcomb [ http://www.psema4.com/ ] "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 03:59:14 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:59:14 -0400 Subject: interacting with wondows on a new laptop//endnote functionality In-Reply-To: <22e435080708240913h78962283s2b8515c0f794fb0d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1187894998.17163.23.camel@localhost> <1187926080.17163.40.camel@localhost> <22e435080708240913h78962283s2b8515c0f794fb0d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46D79212.4080409@ve3syb.ca> Sheldon Mustard wrote: > On 8/23/07, Matt Price wrote: > It was a while back for me but I did do something close to this IIRC: > > http://www.venturecake.com/a-simple-guide-to-using-your-existing-windows-install-apps-in-ubuntu/ Thanks for that link. I have been wanting to boot Windows from within Linux using some sort of emulation or virtual machine set up for a while. The web page helped as I got a bit nervous when I saw the messages that popped up when I told vmware I wanted to boot from a partition. I'm at the point where booting windows gives me a BSOD during boot before it restarts trying to boot Windows. The BSOD screen appears for such a brief time that I can't read the messages. I think I need to install the SCSI drivers even though I'm only using SATA drives. I also keep seeing references to the vmware tools package. I haven't figured out where to download this yet. In addition to the web page above, it gave me an idea of a search to perform on the vmware site. This let me find a PDF file which details setting up vmware on a dual boot machine. The PDF file can be found at: http://www.vmware.com/pdf/dualboot_tech_note.pdf -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 04:01:11 2007 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 00:01:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <20070830124949.GA31598-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Neil Watson wrote: > I still think that rotating tapes is cheaper and safer than disks. For It really depends. Low end tape technologies are quite unreliable. There are even cases of tape head alignment problems that mean that the tape can only be read on the tape drive that wrote them. Too bad if you are doing a DR after the tape drive is destroyed along with several major systems (afterall it is sitting right next to them). To get good reliability out of tapes you need to spend a lot of money. > It is a common for companies to fail in planning for long term data > recovery. They pay lip service to laws like SOX by storing tapes off > site for years. However, they do not ensure that they have the ability > to recover that data from tape when the time comes. Five years from now > will they be able to read the tape or the Exchange 5.5 data stored on > it? Indeed. DR testing is an essential component of any robust backup regime. > To this end one needs to create a data retention policy to cover all > aspects of backup and restore. What will be backed up? How long will > the data be kept? How will the data be restored to the user the on the > day before it is officially expired? Working to that end, if you buy > another tape drive I suggest you buy two and put one in storage with > your off site tapes. Excellent info (with my caveat about head alignment problems in some tape technologies). Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 04:05:44 2007 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 00:05:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830165335.GB31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830170620.GM11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070830172801.GC31598@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Alex Maynard wrote: > I just rsync regularly between one home and one work computers and one or two > old laptops? Now I am wondering if this is good enough or if I need > to be doing something else on top of that? Though its only my own data, > losing it would pose a big cost. Does this seem reasonably or do you think I > should be adding some extra safe-gaurds? Hi Alex. Do you allow rsync to delete files? If so then it is conceivable that you could delete files from your primary box only to have rsync helpfully carry this change to your backups. Disks are cheap and as has been noted here many of us are using these for personal and small business backups. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 04:09:35 2007 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 00:09:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830165335.GB31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830170620.GM11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070830172801.GC31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830180629.GD31598@watson-wilson.ca> <46D7081D.3050506@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Alex Maynard wrote: > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> No reason you can't rsync a daily/weekly tarball that has all said files. > > Thank you. That sounds like a good suggestion. I strongly recommend periodic full backups (not justlast weeks changes). You want to know your files are really there when a disaster strikes. Having full backups makes a disaster recovery much simpler. I normally do level 0 backups monthly (aka full backups), level 2 each Monday rising to level 8 on the following Sunday. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 04:28:27 2007 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 00:28:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830165335.GB31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830170620.GM11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070830172801.GC31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830180629.GD31598@watson-wilson.ca> <46D7081D.3050506@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, I wrote: > I strongly recommend periodic full backups (not justlast weeks changes). You > want to know your files are really there when a disaster strikes. Having full > backups makes a disaster recovery much simpler. I've decide to expand on this a bit. I follow the KISS principal for backups. Keep it simple. Disaster Recovery is a PITA even when you think you've thought of everything (I've had to do real DRs for clients several times including a restoration in the multi-terabyte range once). Don't make the recovery any more complicated than it needs to be. I backup virtually[1] everything on every box, including the OS. When you are doing a DR in the real world you don't want to be having to debug application config problems or even driver problems. Just back it up - backup disk is cheap and OS installs are comparatively small. Just backing up /etc and expecting to recover from the latest version of packages won't work in many cases - config files can change & different compile time options may be used. I set things up so that when I do a DR all I need to do it bring the restore media back on site, prepare the disks on the box, and start restoring. Full restore first followed by the appropriate set of incrementals. Then I run the bootloader and we're pretty much done. If we are talking about restoration to an entirely new system them you can expect some driver issues once the restoration is done but they are not generally serious. Linux copes with new hardware very well. Not a bad idea to keep the original distro kernel around in case you need to boot the system on different hardware. [1] There are some things I do not backup. /tmp & /var/tmp, & mounted cdroms. Sometimes a box may have a "scratch" filesystem which is not backed up - for example it may only contain iso images from the 'net that can be downloaded again if a disaster occurs. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 05:14:43 2007 From: slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (SlackRat) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:14:43 +0200 Subject: OT: Toshiba laptops - reliability and build quality In-Reply-To: <436398.41158.qm-4xim6713zGWB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> (asdf's message of "Thu\, 30 Aug 2007 09\:40\:23 -0700 \(PDT\)") References: <436398.41158.qm@web51805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <87sl60gu9o.fsf@azurservers.com> * asdf a ?crit profondement: | | (off-topic posting... regarding laptops) | | Anyone on this list have experience with Toshiba laptops (the Satellite A200 series | in particular)? Care to comment on your experience with them esp. regarding | reliability and overall build quality? | My experience with a Toshiba Laptop sold in Europe as model M40 bought in France from the Carrefour chain has been traumatic to say the least. It has been back five times for warranty service and returned promptly very close to the five of the "three to five weeks" upper limit promised for return which in effect means that I only effectively had the use of it for half of the warranty period. The motherboard has been replaced twice. The clock still loses up to 19 minutes per hour The bios still beeps occasionally but stops after a couple of days The CD/DVD writer degrades until after about six writes, it refuses to write at all. - this was (supposedly) fixed on four occasions The power on/off switch still works intermittently and on occasion requires the battery to be either exhausted or removed to power down. Luckily the battery is exhausted after about 30 minutes and certainly not the 6.1 hours advertized!!! Numerous other problems have in fact been fixed. A nice letter to Toshiba Europe in Deutschland written in impeccable German and sent both via electronic and snail mail has been ignored. Now, a little out of warranty, they said that they would look at it again. However the problem here is that Toshiba will not look at a machine that does not have Windows installed and I deleted the Windows partition as soon as the warranty year expired. The System Reinstall disk, which in any case reformats the whole drive, refuses to work now complaining that it was attempting to install _Windows 98_ but could not find Command.com - the Reinstall disk reinstalls Windows XP normally Additionally, when compiling a kernel, one needs to remember to include the special Toshiba Laptop options. -- SlackRat - No fsck-U to Reply -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david-KgjyJOZJJiMsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 05:29:58 2007 From: david-KgjyJOZJJiMsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (David Payne) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 02:29:58 -0300 Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: References: <20070824135045.GH9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CEE89A.3000708@utoronto.ca> <46CEEBC4.1060904@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070831052957.GF22395@payneful.ca> On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 10:32:27PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > >>Isn't ae the canonical editor for Debian? > > > > Isn't it Ubuntu that has a Canonical editor? ;) > > > > If the spots are not all taken, I'll join the pro-Emacs side. > > Thanks Chris. We have 2 for Emacs but no one is standing to defend the > honour of vi or any of his clones. > > If we don't fill the spots shortly I'm going with plan B. Yeah I have a > plan B :) > > Cheers, > > Rob Ahh, I use vim all the time. But I don't consider myself a vim expert so I am not only going to defend it. Also to defend vim against Emacs one should know at least a little bit about Emacs. I know of Emacs and bits and pices of it but I never used it beyond just starting it up. David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 05:40:49 2007 From: slackrat4Q-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (SlackRat) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:40:49 +0200 Subject: Appache Logging Message-ID: <87odgogt26.fsf@azurservers.com> I seem to have missed something somewhere and wonder if anyone can advise. I added the "%e" to my format specification and took the rest from the Apache manual. But my lan/loopback logons are still logged This is what I have in the relevant section of the httpd.conf file: # # The following directives define some format nicknames for use with # a CustomLog directive (see below). # LogFormat "%h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b \"%{Referer}i\" \"%{User-Agent}i\"" combined LogFormat "%h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b %e" common LogFormat "%{Referer}i -> %U" referer LogFormat "%{User-agent}i" agent # # The location and format of the access logfile (Common Logfile Format). # If you do not define any access logfiles within a # container, they will be logged here. Contrariwise, if you *do* # define per- access logfiles, transactions will be # logged therein and *not* in this file. # # Mark requests from the loop-back interface SetEnvIf Remote_Addr "127\.0\.0\.1" dontlog SetEnvIf Remote_Addr "192\.168\.0\.1" dontlog SetEnvIf Remote_Addr "192\.168\.0\.2" dontlog # Mark requests for the robots.txt file SetEnvIf Request_URI "^/robots\.txt$" dontlog CustomLog /var/log/apache/access_log common # # If you would like to have agent and referer logfiles, uncomment the # following directives. # CustomLog /var/log/apache/referer_log referer #CustomLog /var/log/apache/agent_log agent -- SlackRat - No fsck-U to Reply -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 10:23:43 2007 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 06:23:43 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830165335.GB31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830170620.GM11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070830172801.GC31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830180629.GD31598@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <40EAA9DE9015244685020EE950693D02145E9C1C11@VMBX102.ihostexchange.net> I've run an rsync based backup service now for about 5 years (unfortunately maxed out on storage for the next bit until I add more storage space - so I'm not even going to make a sales pitch here). Clients can run either Windows based NASBACKUP solution or any unix/linux based system supporting rsync. Some of the attributes include: 1. Daily message of status - reads a log file for success/failure - notifies of success...failure...last received connection, failure (if applicable) and success dates. - also reports to me then if missed over a week (can be changed by clients to more or less if desired - a critical overdue warning). 2. Web site to alter passwords for clients, request new accounts, etc 3. Uses Reiser F/S due to the number of files - ext3 couldn't handle the volume of flies. 4. a daily run of a utility called freedups which puts changes multiple copies of the file to a single file with multiple links/pointers significantly reducing the storage requirements 5. 30 day rolling view of the data - couple clients run hourly data up to the server too..though it only has the single snapshot of the day unless they create a structure at their end and it replicates that - nuisance but it gives them onsite then a quick recovery of the data, and mine become the long term view. It's using a Raid 5 disk with hot spare and I used to see a monthly disk failure but with changing brands earlier this year, that's gone away. Downsides of this are adding space is tedious...and when I change boxes the environment runs on...or need to reload the OS, the data replication process took weeks to move the data since moving the data meant moving 30 copies of data...and resetting links on the My point...if you're interested in such a setup, let me know and I can forward off-list the code chunks I've set up over the years. I'm sure there's lots more that could be done but this has been a working setup for me and my clients do appreciate the service as we'll all known..it's not if you'll have a disk failure (or user error), simply a question of when. D. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Alex > Maynard > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 3:40 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Backup Solutions > > > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Neil Watson wrote: > > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 02:02:51PM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: > >> I just rsync regularly between one home and one work computers and > one or > >> two old laptops? Now I am wondering if this is good enough or if I > need > >> to be doing something else on top of that? Though its only my own > data, > >> losing it would pose a big cost. Does this seem reasonably or do you > think > >> I should be adding some extra safe-gaurds? > > > > It depends on what type of data loss you want to protect yourself > from. > > When you use rsync what happens to files at the backup location that > > were deleted at the source? Using your rsync method can you restore > a > > historical file? > > Thank you. This is the part I worry about. If I corrupt a file on one > computer, it will soon be corrupted on all. I guess I should keep some > older backups that only change once a week/month as well? > > Alex > > > > > -- > > Neil Watson | Debian Linux > > System Administrator | Uptime 7 days > > http://watson-wilson.ca > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 12:58:49 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:58:49 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070831125849.GA6604@watson-wilson.ca> On Fri, Aug 31, 2007 at 12:01:11AM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: >It really depends. Low end tape technologies are quite unreliable. >There are even cases of tape head alignment problems that mean that the >tape can only be read on the tape drive that wrote them. Too bad if you >are doing a DR after the tape drive is destroyed along with several major >systems (afterall it is sitting right next to them). I agree. I would never recommend consumer grade tape drives. Yes reliable tape drives do cost quite a bit. I like to think of backup costs as insurance and keep that cost in mind when comparing tapes versus disks. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 8 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 13:49:53 2007 From: maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:49:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830165335.GB31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830170620.GM11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070830172801.GC31598@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Alex Maynard wrote: > >> I just rsync regularly between one home and one work computers and one or >> two old laptops? Now I am wondering if this is good enough or if I need >> to be doing something else on top of that? Though its only my own data, >> losing it would pose a big cost. Does this seem reasonably or do you think >> I should be adding some extra safe-gaurds? > > Hi Alex. Do you allow rsync to delete files? If so then it is conceivable > that you could delete files from your primary box only to have rsync > helpfully carry this change to your backups. Hi Rob, Thanks very much. I was worried about that too and set rsync not to delete anything. Of course, this means that it is hard to get rid of files I don't want anymore, but that seemed the better of the two problems. So if a file gets deleted I'm okay, but if it gets corrupted the change will get passed on to the backups. > > Disks are cheap and as has been noted here many of us are using these for > personal and small business backups. > Thank you! That's another good suggestion. Cheers, Alex > Cheers, > > Rob > > -- > "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." > -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 13:53:23 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:53:23 -0400 Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: <20070831052957.GF22395-KgjyJOZJJiMsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: , , <20070831052957.GF22395@payneful.ca> Message-ID: <46D7E513.22141.37ECD8A@sciguy.vex.net> > > Ahh, I use vim all the time. But I don't consider myself a > vim expert so I am not only going to defend it. > > Also to defend vim against Emacs one should know at least a > little bit about Emacs. I know of Emacs and bits and pices > of it but I never used it beyond just starting it up. > Oh well... I wish I could be there to defend vi, but I am teaching night school... :-( Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 14:22:50 2007 From: maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:22:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <20070831125849.GA6604-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070831125849.GA6604@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, Neil Watson wrote: > On Fri, Aug 31, 2007 at 12:01:11AM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: >> It really depends. Low end tape technologies are quite unreliable. There >> are even cases of tape head alignment problems that mean that the tape can >> only be read on the tape drive that wrote them. Too bad if you are doing a >> DR after the tape drive is destroyed along with several major systems >> (afterall it is sitting right next to them). > > I agree. I would never recommend consumer grade tape drives. Yes > reliable tape drives do cost quite a bit. I like to think of backup > costs as insurance and keep that cost in mind when comparing tapes > versus disks. A back up to a disk or another computer is easily verified by looking at the files, especially if no compression is used. Is it equally easy to verify that the files are there on the tape backup or do you need to do something like a test restore to double check? This is something I was never sure about. Alex > > -- > Neil Watson | Debian Linux > System Administrator | Uptime 8 days > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 14:22:19 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:22:19 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070831125849.GA6604@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070831142219.GA6902@watson-wilson.ca> On Fri, Aug 31, 2007 at 10:22:50AM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: >A back up to a disk or another computer is easily verified by looking at >the files, especially if no compression is used. Is it equally easy to >verify that the files are there on the tape backup or do you need to do >something like a test restore to double check? This is something I was >never sure about. Good backup software verifies its writing as it goes. You can gain added confidence by performing fire drills. By this I mean every few weeks randomly choose a file or group of files and restore them from your backup media. This tests both your technology and your method. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 8 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 14:28:35 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:28:35 -0400 Subject: vi vs Emacs debate live at GTALUG September 11 !!! In-Reply-To: References: <20070824135045.GH9411@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46CEE89A.3000708@utoronto.ca> <46CEEBC4.1060904@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <46D82593.8000807@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > > Thanks Chris. We have 2 for Emacs but no one is standing to defend > the honour of vi or any of his clones. > > It could be that some things are so good, they don't need defending. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 14:37:26 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:37:26 -0400 Subject: loading mibs with net-snmp Message-ID: <20070831143726.GB6902@watson-wilson.ca> How do I load the mib /usr/share/snmp/mibs/EtherLike-MIB.txt using the snmpd.conf file? # Test snmp.conf file by Neil Watson # Wed Aug 29 13:51:29 EDT 2007 syscontact nhwatson-hcDgGtZH8xNBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org # User accounts rouser roperson priv rwuser rwperson priv createUser roperson MD5 myropa55w0rd DES myropa55phrase createUser rwperson MD5 myrwpa55w0rd DES myrwpa55phrase -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 8 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 15:07:29 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:07:29 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830165335.GB31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830170620.GM11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070830172801.GC31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830180629.GD31598@watson-wilson.ca> <46D7081D.3050506@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <46D82EB1.30503@ve3syb.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: > I normally do level 0 backups monthly (aka full backups), level 2 each > Monday rising to level 8 on the following Sunday. At least 9 levels of backup?? You have your full backup and your incremental backup and one should follow a schedule as to when each is done. How does one arrive at so many backup levels? Do the other levels include scheduling information? -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 15:32:38 2007 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:32:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <46D82EB1.30503-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830165335.GB31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830170620.GM11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070830172801.GC31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830180629.GD31598@watson-wilson.ca> <46D7081D.3050506@utoronto.ca> <46D82EB1.30503@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Robert Brockway wrote: >> I normally do level 0 backups monthly (aka full backups), level 2 each >> Monday rising to level 8 on the following Sunday. > > At least 9 levels of backup?? > > You have your full backup and your incremental backup and one should follow a > schedule as to when each is done. How does one arrive at so many backup > levels? Do the other levels include scheduling information? How to arrange dump levels is a topic that sysadmins have been debating for decades. There is even an approach based on the "Tower of Hanoi" puzzle (referred to in the dump(1) man page on Linux last time I checked). I use this many levels deliberately as a trade off between backup and recovery. Backups are common, restoration uncommon and disaster recovery is hopefully rare. Thus it made sense to me to optimise towards backups since they are the most common operation. By using so many levels I reduce the time and storage that backups take at the expense of longer restorations and disaster recoveries. I have deemed this to be a good trade off. Using Towers of Hanoi and deleting the redundant logs may be more efficient and one day I may go that route. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 15:45:01 2007 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070831125849.GA6604@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, Alex Maynard wrote: > A back up to a disk or another computer is easily verified by looking at the > files, especially if no compression is used. Is it equally easy to verify > that the files are there on the tape backup or do you need to do > something like a test restore to double check? This is something I was never > sure about. Testing file restoration from tape is not[1] any more difficult than testing restoration from disk based backups. This is Unix so (almost) everything is a file :) [1] You'll probably need to get used to the mt & mtx commands but that is important anyway if you are using tapes. I agree with Neil's comments on "fire drills" too. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 15:52:44 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:52:44 -0400 Subject: "NVidia is great!" - Umm, no? Message-ID: <1f13df280708310852r14eea7beu833092dedf78e1ac@mail.gmail.com> This is a rant against the state of Linux video support. Feel free to stop reading now. I recently purchased a NVidia video card, an XFX GeForce 6800 XTreme - AGP 8X, 256Mb DDR3 dual DVI. Why isn't quite clear because I'm not a gamer, but it's a dual head card and I like things to run smoothly. I bought it because fans of Open Source pretty much uniformly told me that NVidia products were really good, the way to go for high end video. I beg to differ. NVidia users have to choose between two X drivers: the Open Source "nv" driver, and the binary-only "nvidia" driver. As I said, I'm not much of a gamer so I figured the "nv" driver would be fine: with a card this powerful, even the relatively slow OS driver would produce good effect, right? So I set the card up and everything went well until I started trying to run Xinerama. X failed repeatedly, no matter how I massaged xorg.conf, telling me: Fatal server error: Requested Entity already in use! It took several days before I finally found a very small statement in someone's mailing list archive that the "nv" driver doesn't support dual head. Sounds like it never has and possibly never will. So here I am with two lovely LCD monitors I expected to run with my awesome new NVidia card, and unable to do so with the free driver. I had avoided the "nvidia" driver not so much because I'm an OS fanatic (although I prefer to avoid proprietary software), but because installing it requires digging into the kernel. There's a major problem here from my point of view: every time Debian upgrades the kernel I'm either going to have to stick with the old kernel or recompile a part of the support system for NVidia's proprietary driver, and quite possibly download a new version of the binary blob. Which is more likely to be kept up to date? The OS "nv" driver - history has shown this. So I dug in and tried to get the "nvidia" driver working. As of kernel version 2.6.20, the kernel developers are going out of their way to make it difficult to use proprietary binary blobs in the kernel to avoid "tainting." The compile kept aborting with the message: FATAL: modpost: GPL-incompatible module nvidia.ko uses GPL-only symbol 'paravirt_ops' The general consensus online is that the best work-around for this problem (and it's acknowledged to not be very good) is to build a new kernel without paravirt_ops. That's lovely: you completely break several forms of virtualization software if you do that, certainly qemu, probably others. I don't often use this stuff, but I don't want to kill it! And I HATE building kernels: I usually have to take three or four runs at it (not to mention the four to six hours of time it takes me to dig through all the kernel options) because the first few builds panic and die before I get the options right. But there's another method (thanks Jamon!): http://grizach.sc18.info/nvpatch/ . This gentleman has patched NVidia's own build script to hack your kernel source to cut out checks for GPL violations. It worked perfectly. So in using this I've used obscure and untrustworthy software of dubious legality (he thinks NVidia's license allows him to do this, but I wonder) to subvert the enforcement of the GPL. This is highly kernel-specific (Debian only, kernel 2.6.21-2 only) and will undoubtedly not work with the next Debian kernel release. All of this makes me remember my Matrox G400 with considerable fondness. It was a good card. Yes, it uses a binary blob, but no recompiles, just move the blob in with the modules every time you upgraded the kernel, and off you went. Hell, even the ATI card I had prior to this was easier to get running. If Torvalds is to be believed, Intel is the way to go (for non-gamers, anyway). But ... do they even make add-on video cards? I know them only for onboard video. How about dual head? I really love my dual head. This is definitely a place where Linux does NOT "just work." I ain't defecting to Windows or anything like that, but I really, really, wish this all worked better. While I admit that I wrote this primarily so I could vent, I'd be pleased to hear anyone else on the subject - better choices, things I missed, even "you're an idiot" - so long as it's backed up by solid logic. Thanks for "listening." -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 16:13:32 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 12:13:32 -0400 Subject: "NVidia is great!" - Umm, no? In-Reply-To: <1f13df280708310852r14eea7beu833092dedf78e1ac-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280708310852r14eea7beu833092dedf78e1ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46D83E2C.1090909@telly.org> Giles Orr wrote: > I recently purchased a NVidia video card, an XFX GeForce 6800 XTreme - > AGP 8X, 256Mb DDR3 dual DVI. Why isn't quite clear because I'm not a > gamer, but it's a dual head card and I like things to run smoothly. I > bought it because fans of Open Source pretty much uniformly told me > that NVidia products were really good, the way to go for high end > video. I beg to differ. > I think that many of the kinds of problems you encountered might also apply to the way ATI cards are handled. > It took several days before I finally found a very small statement in > someone's mailing list archive that the "nv" driver doesn't support > dual head. Sounds like it never has and possibly never will. So here > I am with two lovely LCD monitors I expected to run with my awesome > new NVidia card, and unable to do so with the free driver. It's not surprising that the folks who must write the drivers by reverse-engineering closed chipsets can't support every function. OTOH, at least in ATI-land, the free driver supports the extensions needed to support Compiz/Beryl/etc and the proprietary one doesn't. > I had avoided the "nvidia" driver not so much because I'm an OS fanatic > (although I prefer to avoid proprietary software), but because > installing it requires digging into the kernel. This problem is on I suspect that distributions can address. Lately I've been playing with a few distros -- Mepis, PCLOS, SuSE 10.3 and Kubuntu "Gutsy" -- some of them in pre-release form. Some of these distros have a very smooth way of switching from the free to proprietary video drivers, the new Ubuntu method is actually quite slick, especially for post-install switching. Unless you're playing with the kernel for other reasons, there's no reason you should have to get into it just over the video drivers. If you really want to stay with a reasonably pure debian core, consider Mepis. > This is definitely a place where Linux does NOT "just work." I ain't > defecting to Windows or anything like that, but I really, really, wish > this all worked better. > Personally, I think this is a packaging issue more than anything else, and that some packagers care about this issue more than others. Some distributions excel at the video driver switching, and you don' t have to give up the stability of Debian to try them. (BTW, of the ones above, I will probably stick with either Mepis or Kubuntu. I'm pissed that Kubuntu hosed my system without apology when I tried to upgrade from Feisty to pre-release Gutsy. If it needs a re-install to be done cleanly -- or if they simply can't get major upgrades down properly -- they should be honest about it and at least have a way to back out. But the new release is quite fine.) - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 16:19:38 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 12:19:38 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <20070831125849.GA6604-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070831125849.GA6604@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <46D83F9A.3020508@ve3syb.ca> Neil Watson wrote: > I agree. I would never recommend consumer grade tape drives. Yes > reliable tape drives do cost quite a bit. How much would you need to spend to get a "reliable" tape drive for backing up data? Quite a few years ago I had been using 4mm DAT tape drives that had a SCSI interface. I had an HP 4mm DAT. It didn't last all that long (a year or so?) before it died. The replacement drive also died after an even short period of time but with a different failure. I was able to take the mechanics from one drive and the electronics from the other to make a "new" drive. It also died after a short while. The Toshiba 4mm DAT that was purchased for backing up a couple of SGI computers also didn't seem to last very long. The two HP drives retailed for about $800 IIRC. The company I was working for paid more than that for the Toshiba drive. None of the drives saw heavy use. Backups only took one or two 2G tapes and were mainly used about once a month. AFAIK, I never had a problem with the tapes. Just the drives. I no longer trust a tape system for backups. More recently I was using DVD's for backups. The main issue has been trying to find useable (or decent) Linux backup software that can use DVD's for the external storage medium. The other issue is that the amount of data to be backed up is starting to out pace the storage capacity of DVD's. At first, two DVD's were enough but no longer. My current machine has two drives configured as RAID1. I also just recently picked up a removable harddrive for backups. Someone suggested keeping a spare drive so that you can do restores later on in case the drives are no longer available down the road. Since the interface to the computer (SCSI, IDE, SATA, ...) can change over time and older interfaces may become obsolete, it may be necessary to keep a spare computer with the required interface around as well as the drive. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 16:28:10 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 12:28:10 -0400 Subject: "NVidia is great!" - Umm, no? In-Reply-To: <1f13df280708310852r14eea7beu833092dedf78e1ac-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280708310852r14eea7beu833092dedf78e1ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070831162810.GS11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 31, 2007 at 11:52:44AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > This is a rant against the state of Linux video support. Feel free to > stop reading now. Well nice rant on the state of hardware makers not releasing specs. > I recently purchased a NVidia video card, an XFX GeForce 6800 XTreme - > AGP 8X, 256Mb DDR3 dual DVI. Why isn't quite clear because I'm not a > gamer, but it's a dual head card and I like things to run smoothly. I > bought it because fans of Open Source pretty much uniformly told me > that NVidia products were really good, the way to go for high end > video. I beg to differ. I run a 6600GT which is also dual head DVI and probably much cheaper (if they still made them). > NVidia users have to choose between two X drivers: the Open Source > "nv" driver, and the binary-only "nvidia" driver. As I said, I'm not > much of a gamer so I figured the "nv" driver would be fine: with a > card this powerful, even the relatively slow OS driver would produce > good effect, right? So I set the card up and everything went well > until I started trying to run Xinerama. X failed repeatedly, no > matter how I massaged xorg.conf, telling me: > > Fatal server error: > Requested Entity already in use! > > It took several days before I finally found a very small statement in > someone's mailing list archive that the "nv" driver doesn't support > dual head. Sounds like it never has and possibly never will. So here > I am with two lovely LCD monitors I expected to run with my awesome > new NVidia card, and unable to do so with the free driver. I had > avoided the "nvidia" driver not so much because I'm an OS fanatic > (although I prefer to avoid proprietary software), but because > installing it requires digging into the kernel. There's a major > problem here from my point of view: every time Debian upgrades the > kernel I'm either going to have to stick with the old kernel or > recompile a part of the support system for NVidia's proprietary > driver, and quite possibly download a new version of the binary blob. > Which is more likely to be kept up to date? The OS "nv" driver - > history has shown this. > > So I dug in and tried to get the "nvidia" driver working. As of > kernel version 2.6.20, the kernel developers are going out of their > way to make it difficult to use proprietary binary blobs in the kernel > to avoid "tainting." The compile kept aborting with the message: > > FATAL: modpost: GPL-incompatible module nvidia.ko uses GPL-only symbol > 'paravirt_ops' That was a mistake and fixed in 2.6.22. The nvidia drivers use usleep, which accidentally ended up depending on a GPL only symbol when paravirt_ops were added and enabled. 2.6.22 fixed that so that usleep doesn't accidentally become GPL only anymore. > All of this makes me remember my Matrox G400 with considerable > fondness. It was a good card. Yes, it uses a binary blob, but no > recompiles, just move the blob in with the modules every time you > upgraded the kernel, and off you went. Hell, even the ATI > card I had prior to this was easier to get running. If Torvalds is to > be believed, Intel is the way to go (for non-gamers, anyway). But ... > do they even make add-on video cards? I know them only for onboard > video. How about dual head? I really love my dual head. No currently intel in integrated only. > This is definitely a place where Linux does NOT "just work." I ain't > defecting to Windows or anything like that, but I really, really, wish > this all worked better. Well if none of the companies that make dual head cards are willing to release specs, what can anyone do? > While I admit that I wrote this primarily so I could vent, I'd be > pleased to hear anyone else on the subject - better choices, things I > missed, even "you're an idiot" - so long as it's backed up by solid > logic. Thanks for "listening." Personally I run Debian with the proprietary nvidia drivers (from debian's non-free archive section). When a new kernel comes out, generally all I have to do is: m-a a-i -t nvidia, and then I am all set again. For stable releases the binary modules will already be provided built for the kernel and can simply be installed. I also only run one monitor at a time (at least for now). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 16:33:01 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 12:33:01 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <46D83F9A.3020508-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070831125849.GA6604@watson-wilson.ca> <46D83F9A.3020508@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20070831163301.GT11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 31, 2007 at 12:19:38PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > How much would you need to spend to get a "reliable" tape drive for backing > up data? > > Quite a few years ago I had been using 4mm DAT tape drives that had a SCSI > interface. I had an HP 4mm DAT. It didn't last all that long (a year or > so?) before it died. The replacement drive also died after an even short > period of time but with a different failure. I was able to take the > mechanics from one drive and the electronics from the other to make a "new" > drive. It also died after a short while. The Toshiba 4mm DAT that was > purchased for backing up a couple of SGI computers also didn't seem to last > very long. > > The two HP drives retailed for about $800 IIRC. The company I was working > for paid more than that for the Toshiba drive. None of the drives saw heavy > use. Backups only took one or two 2G tapes and were mainly used about once > a month. AFAIK, I never had a problem with the tapes. Just the drives. I no > longer trust a tape system for backups. To be durable, avoid anything that uses helical scan heads. So no DAT, DDS, Exabyte, AIT, etc. Helical scan causes much higher head wear and tape wear (my experience in the past with HP DDS drives was about 10 to 15 uses of a tape and it was toast). Linear tapy systems like DLT (and I believe LTO) are much much more durable. > More recently I was using DVD's for backups. The main issue has been trying > to find useable (or decent) Linux backup software that can use DVD's for > the external storage medium. The other issue is that the amount of data to > be backed up is starting to out pace the storage capacity of DVD's. At > first, two DVD's were enough but no longer. > > My current machine has two drives configured as RAID1. I also just recently > picked up a removable harddrive for backups. > > Someone suggested keeping a spare drive so that you can do restores later > on in case the drives are no longer available down the road. Since the > interface to the computer (SCSI, IDE, SATA, ...) can change over time and > older interfaces may become obsolete, it may be necessary to keep a spare > computer with the required interface around as well as the drive. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david-KgjyJOZJJiMsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 16:35:42 2007 From: david-KgjyJOZJJiMsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (David Payne) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:35:42 -0300 Subject: "NVidia is great!" - Umm, no? In-Reply-To: <46D83E2C.1090909-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280708310852r14eea7beu833092dedf78e1ac@mail.gmail.com> <46D83E2C.1090909@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070831163542.GG22395@payneful.ca> On Fri, Aug 31, 2007 at 12:13:32PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > (BTW, of the ones above, I will probably stick with either Mepis or > Kubuntu. I'm pissed that Kubuntu hosed my system without apology when I > tried to upgrade from Feisty to pre-release Gutsy. If it needs a > re-install to be done cleanly -- or if they simply can't get major > upgrades down properly -- they should be honest about it and at least > have a way to back out. But the new release is quite fine.) Like you say, Gusty is still pre-release. You may not need a re-install when they releace Gusty. I think one should understand the risks when using Pre-release software. David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 17:11:42 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:11:42 -0400 Subject: general questions about updates In-Reply-To: <46D569F9.2090909-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <46D569F9.2090909@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <46D84BCE.7080101@ve3syb.ca> Chris Aitken wrote: > I just got my first "There are four updates" offering. Then I get to > view the updates to accept them or not. Is there any general wisdom > about accepting these updates? Only four? :-) Some days you will see more updates than four. It all depends on how long it has been since you last checked for updates. The general wisdom would be to accept all updates. The only exceptions would be kernel updates and (possibly) major new versions of programs. > 1. Are they usually so small you might as well just take 'em all? The size will vary depending on the size of the package. For example, OpenOffice packages are rather large so the updates are also a lot of bytes that need to be downloaded. > 2. Are they likely to enhance operations of other applications You need to look at the details about the update (if it is provided). Updates can be security related fixes, bug fixes, or a new version with extra features. The updates available are just a list of newer packages available. They don't always relate to each other. > 3. Are the offerings customized to my system, or are they just all the > updates created in the four days since I installed fedora7 The updates are offered are based on what you have installed on the machine and/or what needs to be installed to update a package. Sometimes a newer version of a package will have additional dependencies so pacakges will get installed that you may not have previously had on your machine. Sometimes updates will let you know you have something installed on your machine which you may not need. The update program won't tell you that. When you see something that doesn't look familiar (or out of curiousity) you ask what something is and/or who needs it you may find out that you don't want it and/or the thing that may need it. I've gotten rid of a few things as a result (not that disk space is much of a concern these days). -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 17:17:14 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:17:14 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu upgrades (was Re:"NVidia is great!" - Umm, no?) In-Reply-To: <20070831163542.GG22395-KgjyJOZJJiMsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280708310852r14eea7beu833092dedf78e1ac@mail.gmail.com> <46D83E2C.1090909@telly.org> <20070831163542.GG22395@payneful.ca> Message-ID: <46D84D1A.6020302@telly.org> David Payne wrote: > On Fri, Aug 31, 2007 at 12:13:32PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >> I'm pissed that Kubuntu hosed my system without apology when I >> tried to upgrade from Feisty to pre-release Gutsy. If it needs a >> re-install to be done cleanly -- or if they simply can't get major >> upgrades down properly -- they should be honest about it and at least >> have a way to back out. But the new release is quite fine.) >> > > Like you say, Gusty is still pre-release. You may not need a re-install when they releace Gusty. I think one should understand the risks when using Pre-release software. > I'd be with you on this, except for the fact that I've had similar failures in the past, doing full upgrades of versions that were not pre-release. Ubuntu just can't get this right, and there are no indications that anything has yet been learned from previous mistakes. For this reason, I did multiple backups in anticipation of an upgrade failure, and unfortunately the system lived down to my expectations in this particular regard once again. This is a substantial enough problem that I doubt it can be licked before the planned release a little more than a month from now. (FWIW, I haven't yet mentioned all the nagging little problems which I _do_ anticipate will be fixed before release.) I had at least expected by now that they'd offer a method to test the results of an upgrade or back out, but these haven' t emerged and certainly won't be in official Ubuntu 7.10. Ubuntu's a great distro -- and probably one I'll stick with -- but this is a chronic weakness. Just be aware that chances of hosing your system irreversibly when doing a full-release upgrade are high. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 17:46:15 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:46:15 -0400 Subject: "NVidia is great!" - Umm, no? In-Reply-To: <20070831162810.GS11129-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280708310852r14eea7beu833092dedf78e1ac@mail.gmail.com> <20070831162810.GS11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <46D853E7.8080901@utoronto.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 31, 2007 at 11:52:44AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: >> This is a rant against the state of Linux video support. Feel free to >> stop reading now. > > Well nice rant on the state of hardware makers not releasing specs. > >> I recently purchased a NVidia video card, an XFX GeForce 6800 XTreme - >> AGP 8X, 256Mb DDR3 dual DVI. Why isn't quite clear because I'm not a >> gamer, but it's a dual head card and I like things to run smoothly. I >> bought it because fans of Open Source pretty much uniformly told me >> that NVidia products were really good, the way to go for high end >> video. I beg to differ. > > I run a 6600GT which is also dual head DVI and probably much cheaper (if > they still made them). > >> NVidia users have to choose between two X drivers: the Open Source >> "nv" driver, and the binary-only "nvidia" driver. As I said, I'm not >> much of a gamer so I figured the "nv" driver would be fine: with a >> card this powerful, even the relatively slow OS driver would produce >> good effect, right? So I set the card up and everything went well >> until I started trying to run Xinerama. X failed repeatedly, no >> matter how I massaged xorg.conf, telling me: >> >> Fatal server error: >> Requested Entity already in use! >> >> It took several days before I finally found a very small statement in >> someone's mailing list archive that the "nv" driver doesn't support >> dual head. Sounds like it never has and possibly never will. So here >> I am with two lovely LCD monitors I expected to run with my awesome >> new NVidia card, and unable to do so with the free driver. I had >> avoided the "nvidia" driver not so much because I'm an OS fanatic >> (although I prefer to avoid proprietary software), but because >> installing it requires digging into the kernel. There's a major >> problem here from my point of view: every time Debian upgrades the >> kernel I'm either going to have to stick with the old kernel or >> recompile a part of the support system for NVidia's proprietary >> driver, and quite possibly download a new version of the binary blob. >> Which is more likely to be kept up to date? The OS "nv" driver - >> history has shown this. >> >> So I dug in and tried to get the "nvidia" driver working. As of >> kernel version 2.6.20, the kernel developers are going out of their >> way to make it difficult to use proprietary binary blobs in the kernel >> to avoid "tainting." The compile kept aborting with the message: >> >> FATAL: modpost: GPL-incompatible module nvidia.ko uses GPL-only symbol >> 'paravirt_ops' > > That was a mistake and fixed in 2.6.22. The nvidia drivers use usleep, > which accidentally ended up depending on a GPL only symbol when > paravirt_ops were added and enabled. 2.6.22 fixed that so that usleep > doesn't accidentally become GPL only anymore. > >> All of this makes me remember my Matrox G400 with considerable >> fondness. It was a good card. Yes, it uses a binary blob, but no >> recompiles, just move the blob in with the modules every time you >> upgraded the kernel, and off you went. Hell, even the ATI >> card I had prior to this was easier to get running. If Torvalds is to >> be believed, Intel is the way to go (for non-gamers, anyway). But ... >> do they even make add-on video cards? I know them only for onboard >> video. How about dual head? I really love my dual head. > > No currently intel in integrated only. > >> This is definitely a place where Linux does NOT "just work." I ain't >> defecting to Windows or anything like that, but I really, really, wish >> this all worked better. > > Well if none of the companies that make dual head cards are willing to > release specs, what can anyone do? > >> While I admit that I wrote this primarily so I could vent, I'd be >> pleased to hear anyone else on the subject - better choices, things I >> missed, even "you're an idiot" - so long as it's backed up by solid >> logic. Thanks for "listening." > > Personally I run Debian with the proprietary nvidia drivers (from > debian's non-free archive section). When a new kernel comes out, > generally all I have to do is: m-a a-i -t nvidia, and then I am all set > again. For stable releases the binary modules will already be provided > built for the kernel and can simply be installed. I also only run one > monitor at a time (at least for now). Just for reference (for those who don't know/use it), m-a is module-assistant and it helps download unpack, build, and install modules, like nvidia, fglrx, ipw2200 etc. A useful tool if you haven't used it. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 17:47:31 2007 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:47:31 -0400 Subject: [OT]: Help Atomic OS (Security) with an email Message-ID: <99a6c38f0708311047i306bd89fy64aceaa87b5fabc2@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, Yesterday, while researching Web OS related topics, I came across the GNUCitizen[1] site. The site focuses primarily on security issues and after some browsing around, I came across an interesting little contest they're running - with the winners receiving some exposure on their site and a book entitled "Cross Site Scripting Attacks: Xss Exploits and Defense."[2] The description of the contest[3] is: "For the month of August we are going to collect various pieces of work that inspire the hacker spirit. This means that we except[4] projects that are creative, clever, unique, provocative, intelligent, intense, intriguing or simply interesting." Unfortunately, the contest ends today. If you think that Atomic OS[5] is a worthwhile entry, please send an email (saying why) to contact-at-gnucitizen.org and group-at-gnucitizen.org Thanks in advance - I know it's just a book, but it is a book that could help me secure AOS. ;-) Take care all, - Scott [1] http://www.gnucitizen.org/blog/web-os [2] http://www.amazon.com/Cross-Site-Scripting-Attacks-Exploits/dp/1597491543 [3] http://www.gnucitizen.org/projects/the-month-of-hacker-folklore [4] I assume this was supposed to be 'accept.' [5] http://www.psema4.com/ -- Scott Elcomb [ http://www.psema4.com/ ] "Our Founders' faith in the viability of representative democracy rested on their trust in the wisdom of a well-informed citizenry, their ingenious design for checks and balances, and their belief that the rule of reason is the natural sovereign of a free people." - Al Gore (The Assault on Reason, 2008) "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin '"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 17:49:59 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:49:59 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu upgrades (was Re:"NVidia is great!" - Umm, no?) In-Reply-To: <46D84D1A.6020302-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280708310852r14eea7beu833092dedf78e1ac@mail.gmail.com> <46D83E2C.1090909@telly.org> <20070831163542.GG22395@payneful.ca> <46D84D1A.6020302@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070831174959.GU11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 31, 2007 at 01:17:14PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I'd be with you on this, except for the fact that I've had similar > failures in the past, doing full upgrades of versions that were not > pre-release. Ubuntu just can't get this right, and there are no > indications that anything has yet been learned from previous mistakes. > For this reason, I did multiple backups in anticipation of an upgrade > failure, and unfortunately the system lived down to my expectations in > this particular regard once again. Odd. Seems Debian manages upgrades quite well. Maybe that is part of what makes a release take so long. > This is a substantial enough problem that I doubt it can be licked > before the planned release a little more than a month from now. (FWIW, I > haven't yet mentioned all the nagging little problems which I _do_ > anticipate will be fixed before release.) I had at least expected by now > that they'd offer a method to test the results of an upgrade or back > out, but these haven' t emerged and certainly won't be in official > Ubuntu 7.10. > > Ubuntu's a great distro -- and probably one I'll stick with -- but this > is a chronic weakness. Just be aware that chances of hosing your system > irreversibly when doing a full-release upgrade are high. Well Redhat has had how many years to learn? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 17:51:32 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:51:32 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu upgrades (was Re:"NVidia is great!" - Umm, no?) In-Reply-To: <46D84D1A.6020302-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280708310852r14eea7beu833092dedf78e1ac@mail.gmail.com> <46D83E2C.1090909@telly.org> <20070831163542.GG22395@payneful.ca> <46D84D1A.6020302@telly.org> Message-ID: <46D85524.1010407@utoronto.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > David Payne wrote: >> On Fri, Aug 31, 2007 at 12:13:32PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> >>> I'm pissed that Kubuntu hosed my system without apology when I >>> tried to upgrade from Feisty to pre-release Gutsy. If it needs a >>> re-install to be done cleanly -- or if they simply can't get major >>> upgrades down properly -- they should be honest about it and at least >>> have a way to back out. But the new release is quite fine.) >>> >> Like you say, Gusty is still pre-release. You may not need a re-install when they releace Gusty. I think one should understand the risks when using Pre-release software. >> > I'd be with you on this, except for the fact that I've had similar > failures in the past, doing full upgrades of versions that were not > pre-release. Ubuntu just can't get this right, and there are no > indications that anything has yet been learned from previous mistakes. > For this reason, I did multiple backups in anticipation of an upgrade > failure, and unfortunately the system lived down to my expectations in > this particular regard once again. > > This is a substantial enough problem that I doubt it can be licked > before the planned release a little more than a month from now. (FWIW, I > haven't yet mentioned all the nagging little problems which I _do_ > anticipate will be fixed before release.) I had at least expected by now > that they'd offer a method to test the results of an upgrade or back > out, but these haven' t emerged and certainly won't be in official > Ubuntu 7.10. > > Ubuntu's a great distro -- and probably one I'll stick with -- but this > is a chronic weakness. Just be aware that chances of hosing your system > irreversibly when doing a full-release upgrade are high. Which are you using, apt-get or aptitude? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 18:42:13 2007 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:42:13 -0700 Subject: "NVidia is great!" - Umm, no? In-Reply-To: <1f13df280708310852r14eea7beu833092dedf78e1ac-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280708310852r14eea7beu833092dedf78e1ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0708311142x559b6854ib853fd05c25a0ae2@mail.gmail.com> I've always tended to roll my own kernels since I'm not a huge fan of the stock ones (they tend to be either "too little" or "too much", and I prefer to support "everything that's in this machine." Therefore, I'm not entirely sure how this works with the Debian stock kernels, but on two of my machines running Debian /w Nvidia cards I haven't had any issues getting 2.6.21 compiled and/or working. I haven't done dual-DVI mind you, but it seems your issues with the "nvidia" module are more in getting it compiled? Let me know if you need some help. If all else fails perhaps I could SSH into your desktop, roll a nice custom kernel (and step through the process as necessary), and help you get those Nvidia drivers working. Oh, and for the record, Intel's drivers usually work pretty nicely, and they're probably the best out-of-the-box FOSS drivers due to, I'm assuming, Intel supposedly being great at supplying specs for their hardware. They tend to not be as high-end cards hardware-wise as NVidia or ATI, but the i915 series was pretty good on some of the machines at work (ran Beryl, played games such as Nexius nicely, etc). ATI's drivers on Linux were nightmarish up until recently. I could never get one to work without a lot of third-party patching. However, since they've been bought up by AMD, I've noticed that the last ones actually worked fine out of the box without much any patches. They do have a GUI installer too. I have no comparison between driver performance re ATI vs AMD though, as the one I use commonly is in my laptop and I don't have a comparable NVidia card of that gen anyhow. NVidia's drivers - with the exception of a few instances with recently released kernels prior to an update coming out - have worked very nicely for me. There was one other issue awhile back when Xorg started modularizing their configuration rather heavily, but it didn't take too long to be fix. But again, I roll my own kernels, and there's no GUI interface if you're into that sorta thing. I've never run into any GPL-only errors with 2.6.20+ (I think the latest I'm running on a machine with NV is a 2.6.21 kernel, although I may be mistaken and the laptop may have a .22), and I don't use CPU paravirtualization support (the option in question), so maybe killing that off in your kernel will make things happier. Another alternative would be to give me a copy of these files /proc/config.gz /proc/cpuinfo /proc/pci (and let me know if you use IDE or SATA drives) That should allow me or someone else with a bit of free time to build a kernel that works for your machine, and then I can debianize for your convenience as well. Looking it up, it seems that either it's an issue specific to a few kernels, or a certain kernel config. It's not an issue with NVidia, but rather in fact with EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL being set by some overzealous kernel devs (even Linus doesn't agree with this), and should be fixed in later kernels. Oh, and it's fixed in 2.6.22 as well, see here :-) http://www.nabble.com/Bug-432746:-nvidia-kernel-source:-module-build-fails-with-error-message-t4063733.html I'm taking the liberty of closing this bug since the paravirt_ops symbol is no longer marked as GPL-only in the 2.6.22 kernel. Cheers, Tyler On 8/31/07, Giles Orr wrote: > This is a rant against the state of Linux video support. Feel free to > stop reading now. > > I recently purchased a NVidia video card, an XFX GeForce 6800 XTreme - > AGP 8X, 256Mb DDR3 dual DVI. Why isn't quite clear because I'm not a > gamer, but it's a dual head card and I like things to run smoothly. I > bought it because fans of Open Source pretty much uniformly told me > that NVidia products were really good, the way to go for high end > video. I beg to differ. > > NVidia users have to choose between two X drivers: the Open Source > "nv" driver, and the binary-only "nvidia" driver. As I said, I'm not > much of a gamer so I figured the "nv" driver would be fine: with a > card this powerful, even the relatively slow OS driver would produce > good effect, right? So I set the card up and everything went well > until I started trying to run Xinerama. X failed repeatedly, no > matter how I massaged xorg.conf, telling me: > > Fatal server error: > Requested Entity already in use! > > It took several days before I finally found a very small statement in > someone's mailing list archive that the "nv" driver doesn't support > dual head. Sounds like it never has and possibly never will. So here > I am with two lovely LCD monitors I expected to run with my awesome > new NVidia card, and unable to do so with the free driver. I had > avoided the "nvidia" driver not so much because I'm an OS fanatic > (although I prefer to avoid proprietary software), but because > installing it requires digging into the kernel. There's a major > problem here from my point of view: every time Debian upgrades the > kernel I'm either going to have to stick with the old kernel or > recompile a part of the support system for NVidia's proprietary > driver, and quite possibly download a new version of the binary blob. > Which is more likely to be kept up to date? The OS "nv" driver - > history has shown this. > > So I dug in and tried to get the "nvidia" driver working. As of > kernel version 2.6.20, the kernel developers are going out of their > way to make it difficult to use proprietary binary blobs in the kernel > to avoid "tainting." The compile kept aborting with the message: > > FATAL: modpost: GPL-incompatible module nvidia.ko uses GPL-only symbol > 'paravirt_ops' > > The general consensus online is that the best work-around for this > problem (and it's acknowledged to not be very good) is to build a new > kernel without paravirt_ops. That's lovely: you completely break > several forms of virtualization software if you do that, certainly > qemu, probably others. I don't often use this stuff, but I don't want > to kill it! And I HATE building kernels: I usually have to take three > or four runs at it (not to mention the four to six hours of time it > takes me to dig through all the kernel options) because the first few > builds panic and die before I get the options right. > > But there's another method (thanks Jamon!): > http://grizach.sc18.info/nvpatch/ . This gentleman has patched > NVidia's own build script to hack your kernel source to cut out checks > for GPL violations. It worked perfectly. So in using this I've used > obscure and untrustworthy software of dubious legality (he thinks > NVidia's license allows him to do this, but I wonder) to subvert the > enforcement of the GPL. This is highly kernel-specific (Debian only, > kernel 2.6.21-2 only) and will undoubtedly not work with the next > Debian kernel release. > > All of this makes me remember my Matrox G400 with considerable > fondness. It was a good card. Yes, it uses a binary blob, but no > recompiles, just move the blob in with the modules every time you > upgraded the kernel, and off you went. Hell, even the ATI > card I had prior to this was easier to get running. If Torvalds is to > be believed, Intel is the way to go (for non-gamers, anyway). But ... > do they even make add-on video cards? I know them only for onboard > video. How about dual head? I really love my dual head. > > This is definitely a place where Linux does NOT "just work." I ain't > defecting to Windows or anything like that, but I really, really, wish > this all worked better. > > While I admit that I wrote this primarily so I could vent, I'd be > pleased to hear anyone else on the subject - better choices, things I > missed, even "you're an idiot" - so long as it's backed up by solid > logic. Thanks for "listening." > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 19:03:55 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:03:55 -0400 Subject: "NVidia is great!" - Umm, no? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0708311142x559b6854ib853fd05c25a0ae2-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280708310852r14eea7beu833092dedf78e1ac@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0708311142x559b6854ib853fd05c25a0ae2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070831190355.GV11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 31, 2007 at 11:42:13AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I've always tended to roll my own kernels since I'm not a huge fan of > the stock ones (they tend to be either "too little" or "too much", and > I prefer to support "everything that's in this machine." Therefore, > I'm not entirely sure how this works with the Debian stock kernels, > but on two of my machines running Debian /w Nvidia cards I haven't had > any issues getting 2.6.21 compiled and/or working. I haven't done > dual-DVI mind you, but it seems your issues with the "nvidia" module > are more in getting it compiled? 2.6.21 was an upstream kernel mistake, not an error on Debian's part. And 2.6.22 (current in Sid) works fine. You can not compile the binary nvidia drivers against any 2.6.21 with paravirt enabled. I use Debian's kernels because then I don't have to spend much time keeping track of security fixes and updates, and I also prefer kernels with modules for everything just in case I ever add such a device to the system. It seems annoying to have to recompile your kernel everytime you add some new hardware. > Let me know if you need some help. If all else fails perhaps I could > SSH into your desktop, roll a nice custom kernel (and step through the > process as necessary), and help you get those Nvidia drivers working. > > Oh, and for the record, Intel's drivers usually work pretty nicely, > and they're probably the best out-of-the-box FOSS drivers due to, I'm > assuming, Intel supposedly being great at supplying specs for their > hardware. They tend to not be as high-end cards hardware-wise as > NVidia or ATI, but the i915 series was pretty good on some of the > machines at work (ran Beryl, played games such as Nexius nicely, etc). Intel is getting better at releasing specs. For some things. There are companies that are better, but intel is certainly among the better ones. > ATI's drivers on Linux were nightmarish up until recently. I could > never get one to work without a lot of third-party patching. However, > since they've been bought up by AMD, I've noticed that the last ones > actually worked fine out of the box without much any patches. They do > have a GUI installer too. I have no comparison between driver > performance re ATI vs AMD though, as the one I use commonly is in my > laptop and I don't have a comparable NVidia card of that gen anyhow. If the drivers can't be installed directly by the debian package management tools I don't want them on my system. :) And unfortunately it is going to take multiple years of reliable consistently good drivers from ATI before I buy another one of their products. Open source drivers would speed that up. > NVidia's drivers - with the exception of a few instances with recently > released kernels prior to an update coming out - have worked very > nicely for me. There was one other issue awhile back when Xorg started > modularizing their configuration rather heavily, but it didn't take > too long to be fix. But again, I roll my own kernels, and there's no > GUI interface if you're into that sorta thing. I've never run into any > GPL-only errors with 2.6.20+ (I think the latest I'm running on a > machine with NV is a 2.6.21 kernel, although I may be mistaken and the > laptop may have a .22), and I don't use CPU paravirtualization support > (the option in question), so maybe killing that off in your kernel > will make things happier. Another alternative would be to give me a > copy of these files When configured with paravirt the udelay function ends up depending on a GPL only symbol which makes udelay GPL only which makes the nvidia driver unable to use udelay. The kernel developers said this was unintentional, and as of 2.6.22 you can now again use udelay without any issue even with the new paravirt stuff enabled. The Debian prebuilt 2.6.22 kernels in Sid (and soon if not already, Lenny) work just fine for everything. They even include the ivtv modules now so ivtv-source is no longer needed for my mythtv box. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 19:35:55 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:35:55 -0400 Subject: Backup Solutions In-Reply-To: <1188674765.3748.5.camel@localhost> References: <018701c7eaf6$7961b790$c601a8c0@plex31> <20070830124949.GA31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830165335.GB31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830170620.GM11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070830172801.GC31598@watson-wilson.ca> <20070830180629.GD31598@watson-wilson.ca> <1188674765.3748.5.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20070831193555.GW11129@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Sep 01, 2007 at 03:26:05PM -0400, keith wrote: > The more the merrier. 1/day/week + 1/week/current month + 1/month/year + > 1/year should give you enough redundancy to cover just about any > eventuality that we use backups for. That is exactly what rsnapshot does. Well that and multiple copies for the last day too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 19:46:03 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:46:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ubuntu upgrades (was Re:"NVidia is great!" - Umm, no?) In-Reply-To: <46D85524.1010407-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280708310852r14eea7beu833092dedf78e1ac@mail.gmail.com> <46D83E2C.1090909@telly.org> <20070831163542.GG22395@payneful.ca> <46D84D1A.6020302@telly.org> <46D85524.1010407@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <56358.69.157.194.50.1188589563.squirrel@secure.starnix.com> >> Ubuntu's a great distro -- and probably one I'll stick with -- but this >> is a chronic weakness. Just be aware that chances of hosing your system >> irreversibly when doing a full-release upgrade are high. > > Which are you using, apt-get or aptitude? adept-updater -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 19:46:26 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:46:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ubuntu upgrades (was Re:"NVidia is great!" - Umm, no?) In-Reply-To: <46D85524.1010407-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280708310852r14eea7beu833092dedf78e1ac@mail.gmail.com> <46D83E2C.1090909@telly.org> <20070831163542.GG22395@payneful.ca> <46D84D1A.6020302@telly.org> <46D85524.1010407@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <56369.69.157.194.50.1188589586.squirrel@secure.starnix.com> >> Ubuntu's a great distro -- and probably one I'll stick with -- but this >> is a chronic weakness. Just be aware that chances of hosing your system >> irreversibly when doing a full-release upgrade are high. > > Which are you using, apt-get or aptitude? adept-updater, which is the recommended tool for Kubuntu. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists