From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 00:10:24 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 20:10:24 -0400 Subject: Yet Another reason to use linux... In-Reply-To: <460EDCD6.8070504-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070329220304.GA22788@waltdnes.org> <2dcd3a0f7e1a696cabf4655e6652ad0c@localhost> <200703311151.58489.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <460EDCD6.8070504@rogers.com> Message-ID: <460EF870.7020002@telly.org> > Governments everywhere but in English-speaking countries seem to be > embracing open source. One example would be the Turkish government. There are many examples around the world. Brazil and China are probably still the most aggressive, but there are too many other countries to count. The countries signing onto the OLPC deal so far include Argentina, Brazil, Libya, Nigeria, Rwanda and Uruguay -- this indicates a heavy investment in a Linux-based endeavour. > It has taken the unusual step of not only favouring the use of open > source but actively funding over a dozen people working full-time on > the Pardus Linux > distribution. There are plenty of examples that go beyond that -- it's not so unusual anymore. For example, take the Open Source Competency Centre run by the government of Malaysia: http://oscc.org.my/ I had the great fortune to have been able to visit that centre; it's extremely well equipped and is designed to be a resource to offer objective information on OSS for any IT manager, bureaucrat or politician. Other examples of public sector use of FOSS, from Munich city hall to the S?o Paulo subway, are becoming more common. > http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-5227983.html > That isn't a particularly good example, for it's Sun selling StarOffice. That was not an open source deal, so it says nothing about Queen's Park's interest in OSS. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 01:59:36 2007 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter P.) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 01:59:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: How to print to USB printer from embedded ARM board? References: <460EB797.4080202@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: Kevin Cozens writes: > The easiest way to provide support for printing some text and some line graphs > would be for the program to generate Postscript code and pass that to a > typical Linux printing system based on lpr (or an lpr variant) or even CUPS > along Ghostscript and (possibly) a2ps. PS can be generated but it takes 'some' work to get it right. There are libraries for this. > Does anyone happen to have a general idea how much disk space an Lpr/CUPS with > Ghostscript printing system would need? I don't need to support all printers > at once. The packages could be stripped down so that only one printer is > supported at any given time. Similarly with fonts as only a few of the basic > ones would be made available. lpr (actually lpd) has the smallest footprint but you only need it if you want to do queued printing. Else simply use gs with stdout connected to a printer (or specify the output device). > How much memory might be required by the printing process to (mainly for > Ghostscript) while generating the data to be sent to the attached printer from > the passed Postscript code? gs is huge, it uses huge fonts, and it will need about 8M or more just to start up with one page. gs typically builds an entire image of the output in ram before outputting it. Thus a single page monochrome in ram at 1bpp will require about 6MB. So 16MB should be barely enough to print a page. > Any recommendations as to printing system to use (lpr, GNUlpr, LprNG, cups)? bare gs or lpd+gs. > Are there any other thoughts or concerns I should be considering that I might > have overlooked? The daemon and gs will get stuck sometimes, when something unexpected happens to the printer and/or to the queue (or when the PS code contains errors). Make sure you have a procedure to 'unstick' a stuck job. This includes flushing any temp files from spools etc (and consider that a flushed job may be lost). good luck, Peter P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 05:03:25 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 01:03:25 -0400 Subject: Is the hw list working? Message-ID: <460F3D1D.8020105@pppoe.ca> Hi I sent a message to the hw list on March 28 and the message below just came in: The following message to was undeliverable. The reason for the problem: 5.4.7 - Delivery expired (message too old) '[Errno 61] Connection refused' Regards Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 10:17:30 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 12:17:30 +0200 Subject: Genesys gl811e - based usb mass storage In-Reply-To: <200703311429.10999.dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM@public.gmane.org> References: <460B3517.100@visible-assets.com> <200703311429.10999.dbmacg@look.ca> Message-ID: <460F86BA.1050706@visible-assets.com> My USB storage device came with it's own power brick, but I also tried using a powered 4 port usb hub, which predictably did not make a difference. I used 2 different USB cables, and also a powered and a non-powered port. All of the USB ports on my laptop have been reliable I can say. The problem is the actual chip. The manufacturers of the gl811e, Genesys Logic, eventually replied to the linux-usb-devel list saying that to have their usb-ide bridge work, one would need to alter the linux kernel so that MAX_SECTORS was reduced to 64. _Fine_ so they wanted to be a bit cheap with their chip and only include a 32kB as opposed to a 64kB cache. I can understand that from an economics point of view. However, they also told the linux-usb-devel group that an extra 100us delay was added between the scsi command and the data stage, in spite of Genesys claiming that their chips are 100% standards compliant... That really nerfs me sometimes :P I tried hacking out a few things in the kernel, but it seems that this enclosure is truly a piece of garbage. I've read that even with the official windows drivers, windows users still encounter write / read errors when transferring large chunks of data with this chip. the contingency plan: going to ask for my $$ back ! ~/Chris Duncan MacGregor wrote: > On Wednesday 28 March 2007 23:40, Christopher Friedt wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> This is a bit of a shot in the dark, but I picked up a usb 2.0 hard disk >> enclosure created by a company called 'inLine' in Germany, and it was >> unfortunately not autodetected as a mass storage device with the linux >> kernel (2.6.19). > > 1. Make sure you cables are ok. Some of mine were defective. > > Your problem can be caused by a weak power supply, especially if you take > drive power from the USB connection. > > I eventually bought a $30 4-port hub that came with a 2.5A 5V power supply: > > http://www.thesourcecc.com/estore/Product.aspx?language=en-CA&catalog=Online&category=USB_Hubs&product=2616527 > > THAT worked. When I tried that power supply on the other cheaper hubs that > had failed, they also worked. > > Duncan MacGregor - Toronto - > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 13:32:09 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 09:32:09 -0400 Subject: OT: Looking for a reliable 3rd party AD Provider In-Reply-To: <1e55af990703310726j42356c43h5398e50c0fc0196d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200703301355.28584.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <1175262949.8724.1.camel@sirius.syd.operationaldynamics.com> <460D4173.4000808@utoronto.ca> <20070330165920.GI3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1175331126.11667.17.camel@sirius.syd.operationaldynamics.com> <1e55af990703310726j42356c43h5398e50c0fc0196d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 3/31/07, Sy Ali wrote: > On 3/31/07, Andrew Cowie wrote: > > Yup, that means that this firm's > > entire internet presence relies on the outsourced authentication > > provided by salesforce.com. > > > > Insane. > > Just make sure you pay all your bills on time! =) True, and go further; you have to be certain that salesforce.com is 100% successful at paying *their* bills on time, at least for all of the services that are relevant to the authentication system... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 14:12:21 2007 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 10:12:21 -0400 Subject: How to print to USB printer from embedded ARM board? In-Reply-To: <460EB797.4080202-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <460EB797.4080202@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <460FBDC5.70506@the-wire.com> Kevin Cozens wrote: > I have been approached about helping on a project that is running Linux > on an Embedded ARM board (a TS-7250). [ ... ] > Does anyone happen to have a general idea how much disk space an > Lpr/CUPS with Ghostscript printing system would need? [ ... ] > Are there pre-compiled packages of lpr (& c.), Ghostscript, etc. already > out there for ARM? (It would save me cross-compiling). The board manufacturer supplies root filesystem images for Debian Linux. I'm running a TS-7400 here with Debian 3.1 Sarge. With this you can do apt-get for any of the Debian supported packages that weren't included in the image. The apt-get install for CUPS was easy (22.7MB storage, btw), but then I got hung up on USB printer support -- lack of drivers or some such thing... I, too, will chase this down. I need to know this stuff. Cheers, Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 14:40:48 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 15:40:48 +0100 Subject: PCI Device problem - maybe In-Reply-To: <7ac602420703301037p4a6e6553g519dfc5670a3f4fb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200703301303.12648.mervc@eol.ca> <7ac602420703301037p4a6e6553g519dfc5670a3f4fb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200704011540.48639.mervc@eol.ca> On Friday 30 March 2007 18:37, Ian Petersen wrote: > On 3/30/07, Merv Curley wrote: > > PCI : Cannot allocate resource region 1 of device 0000:00:0c.0 > > ditto 2 > > and regions 3, 4, 5 > > > I'm pretty sure the '0000:00:0c.0' is some kind of PCI identifier (I > don't know if it's a bus number, or what). If you run lspci, it'll > show you the PCI devices on the system beside this PCI identifier, > which you should be able to compare to the error message to narrow > down which device is failing. > > Ian Well I have found the device. I wanted more serial ports on this machine and some years ago installed a PCI card with 2 ports. Removed it and the errors went away. Now to find out why it is no longer usable with Debian. Dmsg in FC-6 and SuSE 10.2 don't report the error, but the card may not be active with them either. Haven't used the extra ports in many months. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Sidux 2007-1 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 15:51:39 2007 From: rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 11:51:39 -0400 Subject: OT: Looking for a reliable 3rd party AD Provider In-Reply-To: References: <200703301355.28584.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <1175262949.8724.1.camel@sirius.syd.operationaldynamics.com> <460D4173.4000808@utoronto.ca> <20070330165920.GI3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1175331126.11667.17.camel@sirius.syd.operationaldynamics.com> <1e55af990703310726j42356c43h5398e50c0fc0196d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <460FD50B.70101@luckdancing.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > > True, and go further; you have to be certain that salesforce.com is > 100% successful at paying *their* bills on time, at least for all of > the services that are relevant to the authentication system... > I had a couple conversations about this with people I've been pitching SugarCRM as an in house solution to. The main motivation I've heard expressed for buying these hosted services plans seems to be so that their employees can't get at the data. It's funny or rather, ironic, that although the people I've talked to obviously feel that there employees are incompetent lying thieves, it doesn't seem to occur to them that the employees of the service provider or the owners may be even bigger incompetent lying thieves. The implications of the ready availability of keyloggers also don't seem to have sunk in. And when you bring up the availability/lag issues they just look blank. Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 16:44:39 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 12:44:39 -0400 Subject: Google Have Some Fun With Us Message-ID: <20070401124439.3940643e.gstrom@teksavvy.com> I think Google is getting into the spirit of April Fools Day. www.google.com/tisp/ -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 17:54:07 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 13:54:07 -0400 Subject: Google Have Some Fun With Us In-Reply-To: <20070401124439.3940643e.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070401124439.3940643e.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: On 4/1/07, Glen Strom wrote: > I think Google is getting into the spirit of April Fools Day. > > www.google.com/tisp/ The flow diagram is awesome. Look for the guy with snorkel, goggles, pocket protector, and a badge marked "PHD"... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 18:08:27 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 14:08:27 -0400 Subject: How to print to USB printer from embedded ARM board? In-Reply-To: References: <460EB797.4080202@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <460FF51B.1080006@ve3syb.ca> Peter P. wrote: > PS can be generated but it takes 'some' work to get it right. There are > libraries for this. Generating the PS code wasn't my main concern. I have a vague recollection of having written/generated PS code many many moons ago. Most of what I need will probably be a bunch of moveto/lineto calls and/or the relative versions of those calls. > lpr (actually lpd) has the smallest footprint but you only need it if you want > to do queued printing. Else simply use gs with stdout connected to a printer (or > specify the output device). I can probably get away without queuing the output. I'll know for sure when I talk some more with the client. > gs is huge, it uses huge fonts, and it will need about 8M or more just to start > up with one page. gs typically builds an entire image of the output in ram > before outputting it. Thus a single page monochrome in ram at 1bpp will require > about 6MB. So 16MB should be barely enough to print a page. I was able to run a simple test using my USB connected printer. Using top I saw ghostscript using about 10MB. If some of the memory requirements are due to the fonts that are loaded on startup I should be able to cut that down as I only need one or two. >> Any recommendations as to printing system to use (lpr, GNUlpr, LprNG, cups)? > > bare gs or lpd+gs. I will start with bare gs for now. I will have to look up the details of an lpr (or cups) sequence of events when printing. I wasn't sure that would work as lpr and cups printing systems need some sort of "printer drivers". It made me think I was going to need more than barebones gs. > The daemon and gs will get stuck sometimes, when something unexpected happens to > the printer and/or to the queue (or when the PS code contains errors). I'll keep that in mind. Expected errors are lack of paper/ink/toner, printer off-line, or printer powered-off. > good luck, Thanks. Hopefully I won't need it (luck that is). :-) -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 19:25:04 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 15:25:04 -0400 Subject: Google Have Some Fun With Us In-Reply-To: References: <20070401124439.3940643e.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <46100710.8020108@telly.org> Christopher Browne wrote: >> www.google.com/tisp/ > > The flow diagram is awesome. > > Look for the guy with snorkel, goggles, pocket protector, and a badge > marked "PHD"... Even better, in the FAQ: "Your FREE TiSP service includes a Google Toolbar-based analysis of your dietary habits and genetic predispositions [...] To offset the cost of providing the TiSP service, we use information gathered by discreet DNA sequencing of your personal bodily output to display online ads that are contextually relevant to your culinary preferences, current health status and likelihood of developing particular medical conditions going forward." This gives new meaning to the term "fiber optics". - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 19:47:41 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 15:47:41 -0400 Subject: Google Have Some Fun With Us In-Reply-To: <20070401124439.3940643e.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070401124439.3940643e.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990704011247t6fc4b1d1s2ef1af2cf87dd5a@mail.gmail.com> On 4/1/07, Glen Strom wrote: > I think Google is getting into the spirit of April Fools Day. > > www.google.com/tisp/ Also Gmail Paper: https://mail.google.com/mail/help/paper/more.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 20:01:46 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 16:01:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IT360 show planning meeting. Message-ID: <65560.63028.qm@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> There will be a planning meeting for the upcoming IT360 trade show (April 30th, May 1st and May 2nd). The planning meeting will be April 2nd at 7:00 PM in the Starbucks coffee shop inside the Indigo Book shop at Yonge & Eglinton (on Yonge, JUST north of Eglinton). Topics to be reviewed will be: - Booth furnishings - Flier/handout (current plan being to tweak the flier we did last year). - Buttons - Volunteer rules (again basically the same as last year) Further I have heard via Gordon Chillcott that we MAY have a visitor at the meeting from one of the other non-profit groups that will have a booth at the show. If this happens then the following topic will come up: - Mutual co-operation for mutual benefit. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 20:13:45 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 16:13:45 -0400 Subject: Google Have Some Fun With Us In-Reply-To: <20070401124439.3940643e.gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070401124439.3940643e.gstrom@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <460FDA39.22724.7745D3C@sciguy.vex.net> > I think Google is getting into the spirit of April Fools Day. > > www.google.com/tisp/ > > I think I would like to see nanobots coming out of my toilet at least once! :-) Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 20:20:53 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 16:20:53 -0400 Subject: Google Have Some Fun With Us In-Reply-To: <460FDA39.22724.7745D3C-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <460FDA39.22724.7745D3C@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <46101425.3070704@rogers.com> Paul King wrote: >> I think Google is getting into the spirit of April Fools Day. >> >> www.google.com/tisp/ >> >> >> > > I think I would like to see nanobots coming out of my toilet at least once! :-) > > Of course, then you'd want to remember what you were drinking or smoking. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 21:07:27 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:07:27 -0400 Subject: Cluster attached storage to linux .... anyone? HP MSA 1000 for example. Message-ID: <1175461647.4838.104.camel@stan64.site> I am thinking of buying a HP MSA1000 storage array, with a 2gB fiber channel (standard) if I put the 2gB fiber card in any given linux box, and assuming thats all fine .... do the drivers just make the MSA1000 appear as a device in /dev no different then /dev/sda or dev/hda .... ???? and if so ... how do i specify (get at) a particular unit/partition on the MSA, given i could have umpteen of them. i read one article way back about some firewire cluster setup and it did talk about the drivers making it as easy as a /dev ref. to get at the storage, and in that case it was easy because it was a single drive system so i'd imagine it was just /dev/xxa1 /dev/xxa2 for the different partitions on the drive array setup. But for the MSA1000 (MSA 500 or 1500 for that matter), you can have a shit load of defined drives sets and partitions. anyone got any insight? I'd hope i could just see the partitions over the arrays as /dev/xxxYn format, but why am i thinking it might not be that easy. And then what about if you are addressing multiple MSA devices ? Maybe there is some translation layer config file that has to be set up or something. doesn't even have to be a HP insight, a DELL/IBM/SUN experience might be just as valuable. -tl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 22:19:20 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 18:19:20 -0400 Subject: special announcement for April 1 Message-ID: <460FF7A8.13228.7E753C1@sciguy.vex.net> Have a look at my latest web page :-) http://linux.alimentarus.net/lastpage.shtml I think it has a meaning that extends well beyond the April 1 "festivities" :-). Pass it on. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 22:35:50 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 18:35:50 -0400 Subject: Cluster attached storage to linux .... anyone? HP MSA 1000 forexample. In-Reply-To: <1175461647.4838.104.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1175461647.4838.104.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <000001c774ae$1a3ee710$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Yup, its not really rocket science. I used to work with an EVA and RHEL. Just install the HBA drivers. If you are using multipathing but you don't have multipathing aware software you may be limited to only one path to the SAN, or you may risk data corruption. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of tleslie > Sent: April 1, 2007 5:07 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Cluster attached storage to linux .... anyone? HP MSA > 1000 forexample. > > I am thinking of buying a HP MSA1000 storage array, > with a 2gB fiber channel (standard) > > if I put the 2gB fiber card in any given linux box, > and assuming thats all fine .... > > do the drivers just make the MSA1000 appear as a device in /dev > no different then /dev/sda or dev/hda .... ???? > > and if so ... > how do i specify (get at) a particular unit/partition > on the MSA, given i could have umpteen of them. > > i read one article way back about some firewire cluster setup > and it did talk about the drivers making it as easy as a /dev ref. to > get at the storage, and in that case it was easy because it was a single > drive system so i'd imagine it was just /dev/xxa1 /dev/xxa2 for the > different partitions on the drive array setup. > But for the MSA1000 (MSA 500 or 1500 for that matter), > you can have a shit load of defined drives sets and partitions. > > anyone got any insight? > > I'd hope i could just see the partitions over the arrays as /dev/xxxYn > format, but why am i thinking it might not be that easy. > And then what about if you are addressing multiple MSA devices ? > > Maybe there is some translation layer config file that has to be set up > or something. > > doesn't even have to be a HP insight, a DELL/IBM/SUN experience might be > just as valuable. > > -tl > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 22:47:27 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 18:47:27 -0400 Subject: IT360 show planning meeting. In-Reply-To: <65560.63028.qm-Kg4S4JJQdT6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <65560.63028.qm@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001001c774af$b9a4c2b0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Pardon my ignorance (being a FoB and all), what is IT360? I see that there is also Linux World Canada on that same date http://www.biztradeshows.com/trade-events/linux-world-canada.html > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Colin > McGregor > Sent: April 1, 2007 4:02 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: IT360 show planning meeting. > > There will be a planning meeting for the upcoming > IT360 trade show (April 30th, May 1st and May 2nd). > The planning meeting will be April 2nd at 7:00 PM in > the Starbucks coffee shop inside the Indigo Book shop > at Yonge & Eglinton (on Yonge, JUST north of > Eglinton). > > Topics to be reviewed will be: > > - Booth furnishings > - Flier/handout (current plan being to tweak the > flier we did last year). > - Buttons > - Volunteer rules (again basically the same as > last year) > > Further I have heard via Gordon Chillcott that we MAY > have a visitor at the meeting from one of the other > non-profit groups that will have a booth at the show. > If this happens then the following topic will come up: > > - Mutual co-operation for mutual benefit. > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 22:49:46 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 18:49:46 -0400 Subject: What Is The Linux Version Of ... In-Reply-To: <460A518F.1080201-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <460A518F.1080201@rogers.com> Message-ID: <002601c774b0$0c8000d0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Does Linux have a "Desktop Lockdown" equivalent like MS group policies? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of James > Knott > Sent: March 28, 2007 7:29 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: What Is The Linux Version Of ... > > John Vetterli wrote: > > On Tue, 27 Mar 2007, Christopher Browne wrote: > >> As followup to one of the discussions that came up yesterday at the > >> board meeting, I set up the following wiki page: > >> http://gtalug.org/wiki/LinuxVersionOf > >> It seeks to answer the question: "What is the Linux Version of ..." > > > > I don't use it myself, but isn't KOffice a valid alternative to MS > > Office? > > > > I suspect OpenOffice is a better comparison. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 1 22:54:06 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 18:54:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IT360 show planning meeting. In-Reply-To: <001001c774af$b9a4c2b0$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <001001c774af$b9a4c2b0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <20070401225406.94687.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Pardon my ignorance (being a FoB and all), what is > IT360? > I see that there is also Linux World Canada on that > same date > http://www.biztradeshows.com/trade-events/linux-world-canada.html The people who in past years have done the Linux World Canada show have been expanding beyond just Linux, and are now doing a show with Linux, Voice over IP, Smalltalk, etc.. With that has come a name change, with Linux World Canada being part of the IT360 show. It will all be one big show with different area dedicated to different topics. Hope this helps. Colin McGregor > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] > On Behalf Of Colin > > McGregor > > Sent: April 1, 2007 4:02 PM > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Subject: [TLUG]: IT360 show planning meeting. > > > > There will be a planning meeting for the upcoming > > IT360 trade show (April 30th, May 1st and May > 2nd). > > The planning meeting will be April 2nd at 7:00 PM > in > > the Starbucks coffee shop inside the Indigo Book > shop > > at Yonge & Eglinton (on Yonge, JUST north of > > Eglinton). > > > > Topics to be reviewed will be: > > > > - Booth furnishings > > - Flier/handout (current plan being to tweak the > > flier we did last year). > > - Buttons > > - Volunteer rules (again basically the same as > > last year) > > > > Further I have heard via Gordon Chillcott that we > MAY > > have a visitor at the meeting from one of the > other > > non-profit groups that will have a booth at the > show. > > If this happens then the following topic will come > up: > > > > - Mutual co-operation for mutual benefit. > > > > Colin McGregor > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 01:01:19 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 21:01:19 -0400 Subject: IT360 show planning meeting. In-Reply-To: <001001c774af$b9a4c2b0$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <65560.63028.qm@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <001001c774af$b9a4c2b0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <461055DF.5070903@rogers.com> Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Pardon my ignorance (being a FoB and all), what is IT360? > I see that there is also Linux World Canada on that same date > http://www.biztradeshows.com/trade-events/linux-world-canada.html > > It's the new name for the combined Linux World and Network World shows. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 00:56:49 2007 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David C. chipman) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 20:56:49 -0400 Subject: special announcement for April 1 In-Reply-To: <460FF7A8.13228.7E753C1-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <460FF7A8.13228.7E753C1@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <20070401205649.2aceb617@david.chipman> Hi Paul, I just had to say, that that was wickedly funny. Thanks for sharing. I wonder if there have been other Net companies that have done April Fools Day things. Later, -David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 02:04:06 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 22:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: What Is The Linux Version Of ... In-Reply-To: <002601c774b0$0c8000d0$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <460A518F.1080201@rogers.com> <002601c774b0$0c8000d0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Apr 2007, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Does Linux have a "Desktop Lockdown" equivalent like MS group policies? This is a great example of the paradigm difference between MS and *nix. Such a thing is not needed in Linux as a lockdown can be done at the Window manager (as a GUI is near universal these days). More extensive lockdowns can be done through a chroot or even a virtual box. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 02:11:43 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 22:11:43 -0400 Subject: IT360 show planning meeting. In-Reply-To: <001001c774af$b9a4c2b0$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <65560.63028.qm@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <001001c774af$b9a4c2b0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: On 4/1/07, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Pardon my ignorance (being a FoB and all), what is IT360? > I see that there is also Linux World Canada on that same date > http://www.biztradeshows.com/trade-events/linux-world-canada.html IT360 is the overall name of the whole tradeshow. It includes a number of sub-shows including LinuxWorld. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 03:16:34 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 23:16:34 -0400 Subject: What Is The Linux Version Of ... In-Reply-To: References: <460A518F.1080201@rogers.com> <002601c774b0$0c8000d0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <002c01c774d5$521b10b0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Again, pardon my ignorance. But I am speaking of things like controlling browser proxy settings, forcing a background, forcing desktop themes etc.. I should probably frame this.. My daughter just started kindergarten in a private institution and they had a bunch of computers and I was thinking of hooking them up together in a network. So my buddy and I went in, wired the place and setup a file server etc.. The thing is that these are pre-teen kids and I wanted to find a way to lock down the desktop so that they cant change wallpapers and themes etc.. the edu versions of windows 2003 svr is pretty cheap but I was wondering how would I do this with Linux... (client and server) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Robert > Brockway > Sent: April 1, 2007 10:04 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: RE: [TLUG]: What Is The Linux Version Of ... > > On Sun, 1 Apr 2007, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > > Does Linux have a "Desktop Lockdown" equivalent like MS group policies? > > This is a great example of the paradigm difference between MS and *nix. > Such a thing is not needed in Linux as a lockdown can be done at the > Window manager (as a GUI is near universal these days). More extensive > lockdowns can be done through a chroot or even a virtual box. > > Cheers, > > Rob > > -- > Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 > Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 > OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org > Web: www.opentrend.net > Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 04:14:02 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 00:14:02 -0400 Subject: GTALug buttons for the IT360 show... In-Reply-To: <20070331152003.52617.qmail-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070331152003.52617.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4610830A.5060204@utoronto.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > - Do we go with the same artwork (last year it was > very nice, but can we do better/different)? Would be > tempting to have a slightly different button each > year, so people who volunteer each year can have a > collection... But, anyone asking for different artwork > may be asked to supply artwork :-) . Hi Colin, I'll be reusing my button from last year. I was wondering though if it would be possible to do away with the big L? Tux appears to be overwhelmed by it. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 04:28:32 2007 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 12:28:32 +0800 Subject: OT: Looking for a reliable 3rd party AD Provider In-Reply-To: References: <200703301355.28584.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <1175262949.8724.1.camel@sirius.syd.operationaldynamics.com> Message-ID: <200704021228.32511.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Sorry for that... what I mean is ADS.. like banner ads.. etc.. On Friday 30 March 2007 23:40, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > Andrew Cowie writes: > > On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 13:55 +0800, JM wrote: > > > I'm looking for a 3rd party company [that] provides AD services.. > > > > Ok, I'll bite. What's "A" "D" in this context? > > well, acronymfinder.com has lots of potential choices. I'm pretty certin > that he's not looking for adult or airdrop services, though :) > > My guess is Active Directory. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 11:09:05 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 07:09:05 -0400 Subject: What Is The Linux Version Of ... In-Reply-To: <002601c774b0$0c8000d0$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <460A518F.1080201@rogers.com> <002601c774b0$0c8000d0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <200704020709.10819.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Sunday 01 April 2007, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Does Linux have a "Desktop Lockdown" equivalent like MS group > policies? KDE Kiosk . -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 11:41:25 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 13:41:25 +0200 Subject: Genesys gl811e - based usb mass storage In-Reply-To: <460F86BA.1050706-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <460B3517.100@visible-assets.com> <200703311429.10999.dbmacg@look.ca> <460F86BA.1050706@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <4610EBE5.3040803@visible-assets.com> Totally unpredictably, today I managed to bring up my hdd in the external enclosure, but there is a trick - I needed to reboot the computer && cycle the power on the enclosure before the bios came up. Then linux registered the device as one would normall expect under /dev/sdb. It has never worked when I power the device on when linux is running, which I find very odd. The device was automatically detected at runtime by two windows machines in the office, so I've ruled out the possibility that it is faulty hardware - just irregular. Perhaps the error is somehow because of HAL ? It's really hard for me to determine what to make of this, but it works as long as the device was powered on and before the computer was. I think it was picked up with the help of the BIOS. Am I talking smack, or could this be a decent explaination? Still, it doesn't help at all that I can't load it from a running kernel. ~/Chris Christopher Friedt wrote: > My USB storage device came with it's own power brick, but I also tried > using a powered 4 port usb hub, which predictably did not make a > difference. I used 2 different USB cables, and also a powered and a > non-powered port. All of the USB ports on my laptop have been reliable I > can say. > > The problem is the actual chip. The manufacturers of the gl811e, Genesys > Logic, eventually replied to the linux-usb-devel list saying that to > have their usb-ide bridge work, one would need to alter the linux kernel > so that MAX_SECTORS was reduced to 64. _Fine_ so they wanted to be a bit > cheap with their chip and only include a 32kB as opposed to a 64kB > cache. I can understand that from an economics point of view. > > However, they also told the linux-usb-devel group that an extra 100us > delay was added between the scsi command and the data stage, in spite of > Genesys claiming that their chips are 100% standards compliant... > > That really nerfs me sometimes :P > > I tried hacking out a few things in the kernel, but it seems that this > enclosure is truly a piece of garbage. I've read that even with the > official windows drivers, windows users still encounter write / read > errors when transferring large chunks of data with this chip. > > the contingency plan: going to ask for my $$ back ! > > > ~/Chris > > Duncan MacGregor wrote: >> On Wednesday 28 March 2007 23:40, Christopher Friedt wrote: >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> This is a bit of a shot in the dark, but I picked up a usb 2.0 hard disk >>> enclosure created by a company called 'inLine' in Germany, and it was >>> unfortunately not autodetected as a mass storage device with the linux >>> kernel (2.6.19). >> >> 1. Make sure you cables are ok. Some of mine were defective. >> >> Your problem can be caused by a weak power supply, especially if you >> take drive power from the USB connection. >> I eventually bought a $30 4-port hub that came with a 2.5A 5V power >> supply: >> >> http://www.thesourcecc.com/estore/Product.aspx?language=en-CA&catalog=Online&category=USB_Hubs&product=2616527 >> >> >> THAT worked. When I tried that power supply on the other cheaper hubs >> that had failed, they also worked. >> >> Duncan MacGregor - Toronto - >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 14:33:04 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:33:04 -0400 Subject: What Is The Linux Version Of ... In-Reply-To: <002601c774b0$0c8000d0$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <460A518F.1080201@rogers.com> <002601c774b0$0c8000d0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <1175524384.10825.322.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Sun, 2007-04-01 at 18:49 -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Does Linux have a "Desktop Lockdown" equivalent like MS group policies? I saw a demo of a Gnome feature that was really slick, Sabayon. it would bring up a nested X session and the administrator would manually modify the desktop, menus, etc. It would create a policy for a network of systems. Gnome has Sabayon (http://www.gnome.org/projects/sabayon/ldap.html) KDE has Kiosk (http://www.kde.org/info/3.1/feature_guide_flat.html) -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 14:34:54 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:34:54 -0400 Subject: IT360 show planning meeting. In-Reply-To: <20070401225406.94687.qmail-iE2/U85ktn6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070401225406.94687.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1175524494.10825.325.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Sun, 2007-04-01 at 18:54 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > The people who in past years have done the Linux World > Canada show have been expanding beyond just Linux, and > are now doing a show with Linux, Voice over IP, > Smalltalk, etc.. With that has come a name change, > with Linux World Canada being part of the IT360 show. > It will all be one big show with different area > dedicated to different topics. I think this dilution has caused the massive drop off of exhibitors this year. It's almost half of what it used to be, 74 from 147. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 14:56:44 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 10:56:44 -0400 Subject: VirtualBox and Qemu networking In-Reply-To: <460EA91F.2080300-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <74958.88159.qm@web61322.mail.yahoo.com> <46093E52.6010105@ve3syb.ca> <20070327211055.GF22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <460EA91F.2080300@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20070402145644.GK3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Mar 31, 2007 at 02:31:59PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Thanks for the comments about vmware. Always surprises me how the web sites > about vmware and similar programs/systems don't seem to provide the > "basic"(?) type of info I was looking for. Or, if they do provide it, you > have to really dig for it. I think it is all there but takes some searching. > I'm not sure if I could use vmware with the old version of Windows I"m > using or with the old computer (PII with 384Meg installed) I'm currently > using. The web site indicates that you can download a trial version so that > might be the thing to do at some point. Well any version of windows will run inside vmware. It does a very good job emulating x86 hardware. Well any x86 version of windows I guess. If you have a new enough 64bit cpu and run 64bit linux, you can run a 64bit guest as well (none of the 64bit machines I have tried on yet were new enough, although I think my wife's new tablet PC she got friday probably can, although being a T5500 it doesn't have the virtualization instructions, so who knows. If she ever needs it I imagine a replacement CPU could be installed). > I will take a closer look at the workstation vs. server version. I have a > suspicion I would want the workstation version as I would want to use it on > my machine machine which means a few $$ to pay out. Well I use vmware server on my machine in exactly the same way I used to use vmware workstation and I haven't found anything missing in it yet that vmware workstation provided. Only the other way around. > The other option I keep running across is Win4Lin. Having just read a page > comparing it to vmware, it sounds like vmware is more what I want. It might > let the programs see enough of the underlying hardware that I might be able > to run one of my high end CAD packages using it. As was pointed out in the > article, there is quite a difference in price between the two products. win4lin only worked with win95/98 I thought, although I must admit I never really looked at it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 15:13:23 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:13:23 -0400 Subject: IT360 show planning meeting. In-Reply-To: <1175524494.10825.325.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070401225406.94687.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1175524494.10825.325.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <46111D93.5000800@telly.org> John Van Ostrand wrote: >> The people who in past years have done the Linux World >> Canada show have been expanding beyond just Linux, and >> are now doing a show with Linux, Voice over IP, >> Smalltalk, etc.. With that has come a name change, >> with Linux World Canada being part of the IT360 show. >> It will all be one big show with different area >> dedicated to different topics. >> > > I think this dilution has caused the massive drop off of exhibitors this > year. It's almost half of what it used to be, 74 from 147. > Note that worldwide, the Linux conference market has also shrunken dramatically. The annual winter LinuxWorld show that once filled a number of halls in NYC's massive Javitz Centre, quietly moved to Boston two years ago then died. The remaining LW show in SF is smaller than it used to be. Some countries' LW shows just stopped happening (It wasn't that long ago that Montr?al and Vancouver had their own LinuxWorlds too). There are a number of possible reasons. Some involve changing travel budgets and the Internet's ability to dispense increasingly elaborate brochureware. Some involves multinationals increasing perception of Canada as a regional sales territory of the US. Me, I like to think that at least some of this comes from the fact that Linux is now more mainstream, and no longer a novelty. So if a buyer wants to see Linux in action, (s)he just goes to an IT show and not just one absorbed in Linux-in-a-vacuum. Nobody thinks of IBM, HP, AMD and Oracle as Linux companies, yet Linux now plays great roles in their business. A show limiting itself to just Linux vendors, or just Linux offerings of broader vendors, may simply be too restrictive in the current tradeshow environment -- this speaks more to the maturity of Linux and its vendors than anything else. I'm happy to be involved with the show this year, and think that the approach of introducing emerging open source technologies -- this year, Asterisk and open source VOIP -- is a good one. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 15:15:26 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 11:15:26 -0400 Subject: Cluster attached storage to linux .... anyone? HP MSA 1000 for example. In-Reply-To: <1175461647.4838.104.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1175461647.4838.104.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <20070402151526.GL3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Apr 01, 2007 at 05:07:27PM -0400, tleslie wrote: > I am thinking of buying a HP MSA1000 storage array, > with a 2gB fiber channel (standard) > > if I put the 2gB fiber card in any given linux box, > and assuming thats all fine .... Sounds awfully expensive. > do the drivers just make the MSA1000 appear as a device in /dev > no different then /dev/sda or dev/hda .... ???? Fibre channel just has devices appear as scsi disks. What device provides the actual fibre channel storage is not relevant (just like firewire disks all just appear as storage to firewire). > and if so ... > how do i specify (get at) a particular unit/partition > on the MSA, given i could have umpteen of them. Each unit will be assigned a scsi device, with a serial number that should make some sense for the device. The driver should also have some way to show which unit number is which scsi LUN. > i read one article way back about some firewire cluster setup > and it did talk about the drivers making it as easy as a /dev ref. to > get at the storage, and in that case it was easy because it was a single > drive system so i'd imagine it was just /dev/xxa1 /dev/xxa2 for the > different partitions on the drive array setup. > But for the MSA1000 (MSA 500 or 1500 for that matter), > you can have a shit load of defined drives sets and partitions. Well linux does have a limit to how many scsi devices it will support, although I think there are kernel patches to change that. It has been a few years since I used fibre channel and a SAN. In that case we had dual controllers and redundant paths to the SAN and ended up with 4 copies of each device (since each card had a hostcontroller number, and then each path had an ID, and each LUN had an id, giving 4 ways to reach any given LUN). We then used the md drivers to run them in failover mode so that it would detect lost connections to a LUN and switch to an alternate path to that device. Of course it means 4 scsi devices per LUN and then an md device for each real LUN. > anyone got any insight? > > I'd hope i could just see the partitions over the arrays as /dev/xxxYn > format, but why am i thinking it might not be that easy. > And then what about if you are addressing multiple MSA devices ? Well you can partition each volume normally as sdXY with up to 14 partitions (3 primary and 11 logical, or 4 primary) per scsi device. > Maybe there is some translation layer config file that has to be set up > or something. > > doesn't even have to be a HP insight, a DELL/IBM/SUN experience might be > just as valuable. Well my experience was with a qlogic 2200 (as far as I remember) connected to an IBM shark or something like that. If I was in charge of things I would NEVER consider spending money on fibrechannel. SAS looks like a much better idea, and I expect it to kill of the fibre channel market over the next few years. Personally I will just stick with SATA for most things though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 15:17:54 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 11:17:54 -0400 Subject: What Is The Linux Version Of ... In-Reply-To: <002c01c774d5$521b10b0$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <460A518F.1080201@rogers.com> <002601c774b0$0c8000d0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <002c01c774d5$521b10b0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <20070402151754.GM3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Apr 01, 2007 at 11:16:34PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Again, pardon my ignorance. But I am speaking of things like controlling > browser proxy settings, forcing a background, forcing desktop themes etc.. > > I should probably frame this.. > > My daughter just started kindergarten in a private institution and they had > a bunch of computers and I was thinking of hooking them up together in a > network. So my buddy and I went in, wired the place and setup a file server > etc.. > > The thing is that these are pre-teen kids and I wanted to find a way to lock > down the desktop so that they cant change wallpapers and themes etc.. the > edu versions of windows 2003 svr is pretty cheap but I was wondering how > would I do this with Linux... (client and server) I think the global firefox config in /etc can be used to force certain settings. I imagine many other things can too. Of course many config files can simply be made not writeable by the user and locked that way. Of course if the firewall only allows port 80 access via the proxy, you don't need to keep it locked. If they remove the proxy settings they get no connection. Good incentive to leave it alone. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 15:41:55 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 11:41:55 -0400 Subject: How to print to USB printer from embedded ARM board? In-Reply-To: <460EB797.4080202-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <460EB797.4080202@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20070402154155.GN3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Mar 31, 2007 at 03:33:43PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > I have been approached about helping on a project that is running Linux on > an Embedded ARM board (a TS-7250). The application being run on the board > needs to be able use a printer connected via USB. The idea is to not be > tied to one specific printer. Assuming the clients using the printer run windows and will install the right print driver, then having it setup to use raw mode to the usb printer could work. If you want to be able to do anymore or support clients that use postscript (like many cups clients expect) then I suspect the general answer is that it can not be done. Lots of printers simply have no support under anything other than windows. > The board comes standard with 32MB SDRAM and 32MB Flash disk and is > optionally available with up to 64MB SDRAM and 128MB Flash disk. The board > also supports USB Flash drives. I wouldn't want to run ghostscript or any other rendering application to drive an inkjet or win printer with that amount of resources. Yet another reason to probably just support raw mode. > I'm going to be checking what is provided with the stock demo Linux distro > that comes with the board (TS-Linux) as well as the Debian distro that is > also available for the board to see what (if any) printing related packages > may already be included in the two distros. > > The easiest way to provide support for printing some text and some line > graphs would be for the program to generate Postscript code and pass that > to a typical Linux printing system based on lpr (or an lpr variant) or even > CUPS along Ghostscript and (possibly) a2ps. > > This brings to mind several questions. > > Does anyone happen to have a general idea how much disk space an Lpr/CUPS > with Ghostscript printing system would need? I don't need to support all > printers at once. The packages could be stripped down so that only one > printer is supported at any given time. Similarly with fonts as only a few > of the basic ones would be made available. You would need temp space for the rendered dumps before they are passed to the printer. As for the print system itself, not sure. > How much memory might be required by the printing process to (mainly for > Ghostscript) while generating the data to be sent to the attached printer > from the passed Postscript code? ghostscript can use a lot of ram (certainly more than 64MB) in my experience. > Any recommendations as to printing system to use (lpr, GNUlpr, LprNG, cups)? I wouldn't dream of using anything other than cups anymore. It supports IPP and LPD as input protocols as well as IPP, LPD, jetdirect, samba, and many more as output protocols (although you might only want USB). > Are there pre-compiled packages of lpr (& c.), Ghostscript, etc. already > out there for ARM? (It would save me cross-compiling). Well debian has arm support, both big endian and little endian for many arm based devices. http://www.embeddedarm.com/linux/ARM.htm even mentions debian as an option for that particular board. Of course debian could be a bit big for such a small flash. 256MB is easy to run debian in, but even 128MB could be rather tight. It can be shrunk a bit though. > Are there any other thoughts or concerns I should be considering that I > might have overlooked? > > I'm still doing my own investigation regarding the project. I just thought > I would tap in to the minds and experiences of the other members of TLUG > before I agree to work on the project. Well I have seen print servers before that supported parallel or usb devices, and all of them were raw mode only. They did no rendering or conversion at all, leaving that to the clients instead since they would actually have the resources to do the job, and it gives the clients full support for the features of their printer in the driver they use. Since you apparently want to support output from an application and not to be a print server, I think you unfortunately are stuck with only supporting certain printers which are those with good linux support, and with low overhead for generating the output. I would think it might actually require limiting support to postscript printers to avoid the rendering overhead that I am not sure you have enough resources to do, although it would be worth testing. Certainly hpijs/hplip supports a lot of modern HP printers, and gutenprint/gimpprint supports a lot of epson and other inkjet printers as well as some laser printers. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 15:47:16 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 11:47:16 -0400 Subject: PCI Device problem - maybe In-Reply-To: <200704011540.48639.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200704011540.48639.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20070402154716.GO3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Apr 01, 2007 at 03:40:48PM +0100, Merv Curley wrote: > Well I have found the device. I wanted more serial ports on this machine and > some years ago installed a PCI card with 2 ports. Removed it and the errors > went away. Now to find out why it is no longer usable with Debian. Dmsg in > FC-6 and SuSE 10.2 don't report the error, but the card may not be active > with them either. Haven't used the extra ports in many months. What is/was the lspci -n output for that device? Maybe the driver changed or something. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 16:36:29 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 12:36:29 -0400 Subject: IT360 show planning meeting. In-Reply-To: <20070401225406.94687.qmail-iE2/U85ktn6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070401225406.94687.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4611310D.5040702@ve3syb.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > The people who in past years have done the Linux World > Canada show have been expanding beyond just Linux, and > are now doing a show with Linux, Voice over IP, > Smalltalk, etc.. I hope that means the show is bigger this year. I couldn't believe how small the show was last year. It only took up about half the floor space of the north building. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 16:46:11 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 12:46:11 -0400 Subject: IT360 show planning meeting. In-Reply-To: <4611310D.5040702-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070401225406.94687.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4611310D.5040702@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <1175532371.10825.327.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Mon, 2007-04-02 at 12:36 -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > I hope that means the show is bigger this year. I couldn't believe how small > the show was last year. It only took up about half the floor space of the > north building. And that was LW's largest show in Toronto to date. It grew bit-by-bit every year until this year. Does anyone have an attendance estimate for this year? IIRC last year was about 1,300. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org ph: 518-883-1172 x5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 17:09:57 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 13:09:57 -0400 Subject: IT360 show planning meeting. In-Reply-To: <1175532371.10825.327.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070401225406.94687.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4611310D.5040702@ve3syb.ca> <1175532371.10825.327.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <461138E5.3090800@rogers.com> John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Mon, 2007-04-02 at 12:36 -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > >> I hope that means the show is bigger this year. I couldn't believe how small >> the show was last year. It only took up about half the floor space of the >> north building. >> > > And that was LW's largest show in Toronto to date. It grew bit-by-bit > every year until this year. Does anyone have an attendance estimate for > this year? IIRC last year was about 1,300. > > I recall one Linux show, a few years ago, that filled the south hall. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 18:22:55 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 14:22:55 -0400 Subject: How to print to USB printer from embedded ARM board? In-Reply-To: <460FBDC5.70506-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <460EB797.4080202@ve3syb.ca> <460FBDC5.70506@the-wire.com> Message-ID: <461149FF.9090607@ve3syb.ca> Mel Wilson wrote: > The board manufacturer supplies root filesystem images for Debian > Linux. I'm running a TS-7400 here with Debian 3.1 Sarge. With this you > can do apt-get for any of the Debian supported packages that weren't > included in the image. Good to know. I just looked and I see it in the list I made of the files in the root filesystem. > The apt-get install for CUPS was easy (22.7MB storage, btw), but then I > got hung up on USB printer support -- lack of drivers or some such thing... > I, too, will chase this down. I need to know this stuff. Can I chat with you off-list about this? I'd like to get more details about the problems you are experiencing in case I may run in to the same problems. My first question is whether there is a /dev/usb/lp0 (or similar) that appears when the printer is connected and turned on. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 19:46:07 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 15:46:07 -0400 Subject: IT360 show planning meeting. In-Reply-To: <461138E5.3090800-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070401225406.94687.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4611310D.5040702@ve3syb.ca> <1175532371.10825.327.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <461138E5.3090800@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1175543168.10825.343.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Mon, 2007-04-02 at 13:09 -0400, James Knott wrote: > I recall one Linux show, a few years ago, that filled the south hall. It wasn't Linux World. Here was its sizes over the years: Year Exhbitors Attendees 2006 101 2,100 2005 101 2,400 2004 84 2,650 2003 50 1,863 (SARS) -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. CTO, co-CEO 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 2 20:33:54 2007 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 16:33:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: VirtualBox and Qemu networking In-Reply-To: <20070402145644.GK3509-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070402145644.GK3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <385802.10110.qm@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: On Sat, Mar 31, 2007 at 02:31:59PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Thanks for the comments about vmware. Always surprises me how the web sites > about vmware and similar programs/systems don't seem to provide the > "basic"(?) type of info I was looking for. Or, if they do provide it, you > have to really dig for it. I think it is all there but takes some searching. > I'm not sure if I could use vmware with the old version of Windows I"m > using or with the old computer (PII with 384Meg installed) I'm currently > using. The web site indicates that you can download a trial version so that > might be the thing to do at some point. Well any version of windows will run inside vmware. It does a very good job emulating x86 hardware. Well any x86 version of windows I guess. If you have a new enough 64bit cpu and run 64bit linux, you can run a 64bit guest as well (none of the 64bit machines I have tried on yet were new enough, although I think my wife's new tablet PC she got friday probably can, although being a T5500 it doesn't have the virtualization instructions, so who knows. If she ever needs it I imagine a replacement CPU could be installed). > I will take a closer look at the workstation vs. server version. I have a > suspicion I would want the workstation version as I would want to use it on > my machine machine which means a few $$ to pay out. Well I use vmware server on my machine in exactly the same way I used to use vmware workstation and I haven't found anything missing in it yet that vmware workstation provided. Only the other way around. > The other option I keep running across is Win4Lin. Having just read a page > comparing it to vmware, it sounds like vmware is more what I want. It might > let the programs see enough of the underlying hardware that I might be able > to run one of my high end CAD packages using it. As was pointed out in the > article, there is quite a difference in price between the two products. win4lin only worked with win95/98 I thought, although I must admit I never really looked at it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists I discovered that VirtualBox network was working after all. What was not working was ping. I just launched IE from within Windows and there it goes, I can connect to the internet via the host connection. Both host adapter and NAT work fine. I couldn't get Qemu's networking up. The adapter that Qemu was supposed to emulate to the guest OS is not seen by the guest OS. I liked VirtualBox better than VMWare. It is lightweight and installation is intuitive (and there is no need for license key, etc.). What is more, if you delete a virtual machine it cleans the files associated with the virtual machine as well so you don't have to hunt them. It also supports all versions of Windows including DOS, OS2, Linux, etc. I like Qemu's single file - the disk image - virtual machines. I don't if it will get the more device support though. Equbay --------------------------------- Share your photos with the people who matter at Yahoo! Canada Photos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 3 03:37:42 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 23:37:42 -0400 Subject: What Is The Linux Version Of ... In-Reply-To: <20070402151754.GM3509-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <460A518F.1080201@rogers.com> <002601c774b0$0c8000d0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <002c01c774d5$521b10b0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070402151754.GM3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990704022037s56efd057kb8817c571b4d5161@mail.gmail.com> I bumped into this document: http://www.linuxrsp.ru/win-lin-soft/table-eng.html It may well help with this effort. I've also linked to it on http://gtalug.org/wiki/LinuxVersionOf -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 3 04:04:36 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 00:04:36 -0400 Subject: VirtualBox and Qemu networking In-Reply-To: <385802.10110.qm-inj+/bcMcZ6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <385802.10110.qm@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200704030004.36515.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Monday 02 April 2007 16:33, E K wrote: > I like Qemu's single file - the disk image - virtual machines. I don't if > it will get the more device support though. Qemu is also quite happy to use a logical volume or physical disk partition for the virtual disk as well - as are KVM and Xen. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 3 04:20:53 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 00:20:53 -0400 Subject: Cluster attached storage to linux .... anyone? HP MSA 1000 for example. In-Reply-To: <1175461647.4838.104.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1175461647.4838.104.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <200704030020.54025.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Sunday 01 April 2007 17:07, tleslie wrote: > i read one article way back about some firewire cluster setup > and it did talk about the drivers making it as easy as a /dev ref. to > get at the storage, and in that case it was easy because it was a single > drive system so i'd imagine it was just /dev/xxa1 /dev/xxa2 for the > different partitions on the drive array setup. > But for the MSA1000 (MSA 500 or 1500 for that matter), > you can have a shit load of defined drives sets and partitions. > > anyone got any insight? You haven't given a clear idea of why you're considering fibrechannel ... One question would be do you expect to share the storage with multiple servers? If so you will need FC switches. If sharing the storage then are you sharing LUNs, or will each server mount unique LUNs? If you're sharing LUNs then you'll want a reasonably robust means of ensuring that your volumes don't get simultaneously mounted (LVM tagging works ok for this). If on the other hand you do want to simultaneously mount the common LUNs then you need a cluster aware filesystem - OCFS2, GFS, veritas, polyserve, ??? If you want redundancy then you'll want to have dual FC HBAs per server, dual FC switches and dual controllers on the MSA1500 ... then some multipathing layer on top of that. device mapper multipath can work well on a real SAN, not certain on the MSAs right now. md multipath never used it, might work. qlogic drivers have built in multipath support and in some cases it is the best solution (I believe it is in the case of MSA devices). > I'd hope i could just see the partitions over the arrays as /dev/xxxYn > format, but why am i thinking it might not be that easy. > And then what about if you are addressing multiple MSA devices ? I'm not a FC expert but I'd guess if you throw multiple MSAs on the same fabric then your servers will be able to see them all. You would definitely want persistent naming setup in this case (udev rules are good enough) as there's no guarantee that the devices will be found in the same order. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 3 05:16:43 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 01:16:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Dell to offer linux pre-installed on desktops In-Reply-To: References: <460BEFF4.8010207@rogers.com> <4522.66.11.182.5.1175190096.squirrel@canuckster.org> <460BFF3B.6010207@alteeve.com> <20070329202235.GB3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 16:37:44 -0400 | From: Alex Beamish | On 3/29/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: | > Still amazing to see Dell go from pure Wintel, to their current state. | | I don't see it as amazing at all -- maybe I'm missing something key in this | whole discussion. | | If Dell customers want something that's not a Windows OS on their hardware, | ... Up until last year, Dell did not ship anything with AMD processors*. On the surface, this was a silly choice: AMD had better price/performance and even just performance in a number of important areas. Compounding the mystery, they switched to supporting AMD just when AMD no longer was the performance leader. There must have been some kind of sweet secret deal between Dell and Intel that kept AMD out. Perhaps this deal broke down when AMD sued Intel over just this kind of thing. Or perhaps the performance gap got to hard to ignore. Apple switched from PPC to x86 roughly the same time. They said they were going to Intel when AMD had the best x86. But they knew that Intel was going to pull ahead at the time Apple would start to ship x86 boxes. I think Apple got to ship some of the first systems with Intel Core. It also sounded as if Apple made some kind of sweet deal with Intel. So Dell should have known that they could have ignored AMD for a few more months and been out of the woods on performance. But on price, I think AMD beats Intel, even now. They have to. And they clearly gave an extraordinary deal to get Dell -- AMD were so hungry for it. It appears that Intel has managed to market a bait-and-switch. Current gen Intel chips are better than current gen AMD chips. But if you want them at a low price, Intel will sell you last-gen chips (P4) which are inferior to AMD chips. Maybe the P4 stuff will be phased out soon. http://www1.ca.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/dt_basic?c=ca&cs=cadhs1&l=en&s=dhs "Basic Desktops": $369 Dell E521 Semperon (cost reduced Athlon; includes x86-64) $479 Dell E520 Celeron D (cost reduced P4; no x86-64 AFAIK) "Mainstream Desktops": $579 E520 Pentium D $489 E521 Athlon 64 "Performance Desktops" Only Intel chips, some of which are P4. In each pair, the CPUs are close enough to being equal (to consumers, not fans). The AMDs are considerably cheaper. I worry that AMD will (again) get a stigma of being cheap, not just inexpensive. I've not laid out the complete set of choices. Dell makes it very hard to figure them out (definitely not orthogonal). This is part of their method of price differentiation. (* They did have a SKU for AMD CPU chips; I could never figure out why.) ================================================================ I don't care much if Dell offers to sell a few models with Linux pre-installed. The vendors that do this have traditionally charged more for those systems than ones with MS Windows pre-loaded. I want Dell to certify configurations as being suitable for Linux: having open-source drivers. I'm willing to load the Linux, the pain is not knowing, when I order a box, whether it will have some stupid Linux support gotcha. As an example, the E521 didn't run Linux when it came out. Some USB / keyboard problem, if I remember correctly. That's a real annoyance to bump into. It is worst on laptops. I want them to provide a reference Linux that can be downloaded. All GPLed. (Wishful thinking when it comes to video cards and wireless.) I want this for all their lines, not just selected high-cost configurations. I'll settle for "reasonable" exclusions (e.g. having to pay for a more expensive wireless card). I want them to have Linux available when each model is released, not months later. Currently, Linux users start working through barriers after they get the machine. It often takes time before the kinks are sorted. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 3 05:30:14 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 01:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Yet Another reason to use linux... In-Reply-To: <20070329220304.GA22788-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070321044701.GB1973@waltdnes.org> <20070329220304.GA22788@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: | From: Walter Dnes | http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?newsid=8226 | | Neener Neener... linux is greener Most mainline Linux distros seem to be roughly as piggy as WinXP. Luckilly Vista has come out, so the bar has moved (the wrong way). I wonder why there isn't a mainline distro that is reasonably functional and yet "parties like it's 1999". If you know what you are doing, you can slim some distros down or pick slim off-beat ones, but the "know what you are doing" is the catch. Open Office is reputed to be piggier than MS Office, an amazing accomplishment. My laptop (Celeron M CPU) takes less power under WinXP than Linux. I measured it. My guess: the Linux clock interrupt coming in at 1KHz, whether it is needed or not, is burning power. At OLS last year there was a talk by an Intel guy about only having clock interrupts when there was something scheduled for that tick. Great talk. The feature is coming, but I'm impatient. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 3 05:36:21 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 01:36:21 -0400 Subject: Yet Another reason to use linux... In-Reply-To: References: <20070321044701.GB1973@waltdnes.org> <20070329220304.GA22788@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <7ac602420704022236k713b960fkefd472c5d589fa0e@mail.gmail.com> On 4/3/07, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > At OLS last year there was a talk by an Intel guy about only having > clock interrupts when there was something scheduled for that tick. > Great talk. The feature is coming, but I'm impatient. I think I've seen somewhere that this feature has been released. It's only in the latest kernel, and it might only be in the latest RC, but, if you're impatient enough, that might not be a problem. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 3 15:17:17 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 11:17:17 -0400 Subject: OT: Dell to offer linux pre-installed on desktops In-Reply-To: References: <460BEFF4.8010207@rogers.com> <4522.66.11.182.5.1175190096.squirrel@canuckster.org> <460BFF3B.6010207@alteeve.com> <20070329202235.GB3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070403151717.GP3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 01:16:43AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Up until last year, Dell did not ship anything with AMD processors*. > On the surface, this was a silly choice: AMD had better > price/performance and even just performance in a number of important > areas. Compounding the mystery, they switched to supporting AMD just > when AMD no longer was the performance leader. > > There must have been some kind of sweet secret deal between Dell and > Intel that kept AMD out. Perhaps this deal broke down when AMD sued > Intel over just this kind of thing. Or perhaps the performance gap > got to hard to ignore. > > Apple switched from PPC to x86 roughly the same time. They said they > were going to Intel when AMD had the best x86. But they knew that > Intel was going to pull ahead at the time Apple would start to ship > x86 boxes. I think Apple got to ship some of the first systems with > Intel Core. It also sounded as if Apple made some kind of sweet deal > with Intel. Intel has the best complete solution for chipset and cpu and wireless combined. And the Core processors are a very good design. Other than development machines apple never used the P4 at all. I have no doubt intel kept apple well informed about what their new CPU design was going to do. > So Dell should have known that they could have ignored AMD for a few > more months and been out of the woods on performance. But on price, I > think AMD beats Intel, even now. They have to. And they clearly gave > an extraordinary deal to get Dell -- AMD were so hungry for it. But they couldn't ignore the server area where for 4 or more processors the opteron is still superior. > It appears that Intel has managed to market a bait-and-switch. > Current gen Intel chips are better than current gen AMD chips. But if > you want them at a low price, Intel will sell you last-gen chips (P4) > which are inferior to AMD chips. Maybe the P4 stuff will be phased > out soon. Intel has already said last year that the P4 will slowly be phased out as their fabs move over to making Core 2 designs. > http://www1.ca.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/dt_basic?c=ca&cs=cadhs1&l=en&s=dhs > "Basic Desktops": > $369 Dell E521 Semperon (cost reduced Athlon; includes x86-64) > $479 Dell E520 Celeron D (cost reduced P4; no x86-64 AFAIK) > > "Mainstream Desktops": > $579 E520 Pentium D > $489 E521 Athlon 64 > > "Performance Desktops" > Only Intel chips, some of which are P4. I suspect part of that is that Dell probably has long term delivery contracts with intel, and tend to sell mostly what is cheap because that is their market. High volumes of cheap junk. > In each pair, the CPUs are close enough to being equal (to consumers, > not fans). The AMDs are considerably cheaper. I worry that AMD will > (again) get a stigma of being cheap, not just inexpensive. Well AMD claims to be working on a new revision of the K8 that is supposed to get a good boost in performance (Their claims make it sound like they could match or probably even beat the current Core 2 design). And AMD still has the better memory interface and multi cpu support. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 3 15:19:44 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 11:19:44 -0400 Subject: Yet Another reason to use linux... In-Reply-To: References: <20070321044701.GB1973@waltdnes.org> <20070329220304.GA22788@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20070403151944.GQ3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 01:30:14AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Most mainline Linux distros seem to be roughly as piggy as WinXP. > Luckilly Vista has come out, so the bar has moved (the wrong way). Debian only installs what you ask for. Still runs on my 486/66, so it can't be too bloated (not that I want to run X on the 486, it never was particularly good at that). > I wonder why there isn't a mainline distro that is reasonably > functional and yet "parties like it's 1999". If you know what you are > doing, you can slim some distros down or pick slim off-beat ones, but > the "know what you are doing" is the catch. > > Open Office is reputed to be piggier than MS Office, an amazing > accomplishment. There is java involved. Not that big an accomplishment then. > My laptop (Celeron M CPU) takes less power under WinXP than Linux. I > measured it. My guess: the Linux clock interrupt coming in at 1KHz, > whether it is needed or not, is burning power. In the future that is changing. Dynamic ticks is being worked on right now. It has been noted to make a measurable difference in power savings. > At OLS last year there was a talk by an Intel guy about only having > clock interrupts when there was something scheduled for that tick. > Great talk. The feature is coming, but I'm impatient. 2.6.20 has some support I believe, but I don't think it works fully yet. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 3 16:00:51 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 12:00:51 -0400 Subject: Yet Another reason to use linux... In-Reply-To: References: <20070321044701.GB1973@waltdnes.org> <20070329220304.GA22788@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990704030900i3679dab8u847793aedfa0d5db@mail.gmail.com> On 4/3/07, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Most mainline Linux distros seem to be roughly as piggy as WinXP. > Luckilly Vista has come out, so the bar has moved (the wrong way). > > I wonder why there isn't a mainline distro that is reasonably > functional and yet "parties like it's 1999". If you know what you are > doing, you can slim some distros down or pick slim off-beat ones, but > the "know what you are doing" is the catch. There are lots of choices - and most of them suck. I've spent a bunch of time looking through the selection only to realise that it would be easier to strip down a mainstream distro to a reasomable level than deal with the crusty old "not updated since 1999" distros out there. There are some reasonable candidates out there - but for some strange reason they want to use fluxbox instead of blackbox. *shrug*. But there really are some interesting choices - which, for example, use an alternate to X11.. DSL is looking nice. Too bad it has craptastic hardware detection. Bleh, I might have to revive psylos. =/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 3 16:27:10 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 12:27:10 -0400 Subject: Yet Another reason to use linux... In-Reply-To: <1e55af990704030900i3679dab8u847793aedfa0d5db-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070321044701.GB1973@waltdnes.org> <20070329220304.GA22788@waltdnes.org> <1e55af990704030900i3679dab8u847793aedfa0d5db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <22e435080704030927r2f9ead10u7dfb9a14aaa98a9@mail.gmail.com> On 4/3/07, Sy Ali wrote: > > On 4/3/07, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > I wonder why there isn't a mainline distro that is reasonably > > functional and yet "parties like it's 1999". If you know what you are > > doing, you can slim some distros down or pick slim off-beat ones, but > > the "know what you are doing" is the catch. > > There are lots of choices - and most of them suck. I've spent a bunch > of time looking through the selection only to realise that it would be > easier to strip down a mainstream distro to a reasomable level than > deal with the crusty old "not updated since 1999" distros out there. > xubuntu runs pretty well on 96 or 128 MB RAM is that 1999 levels probably not eh. SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 3 17:03:16 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 13:03:16 -0400 Subject: Yet Another reason to use linux... In-Reply-To: <22e435080704030927r2f9ead10u7dfb9a14aaa98a9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070321044701.GB1973@waltdnes.org> <20070329220304.GA22788@waltdnes.org> <1e55af990704030900i3679dab8u847793aedfa0d5db@mail.gmail.com> <22e435080704030927r2f9ead10u7dfb9a14aaa98a9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070403170316.GR3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 12:27:10PM -0400, Sheldon Mustard wrote: > xubuntu runs pretty well on 96 or 128 MB RAM is that 1999 levels probably > not eh. Well common around 1995 was Penium 90 with 8MB ram. I built a CAD system in early 1997 with a PPro 200 and 128MB ram, so that would probably be above normal at the time. I think by 2000 256MB ram would be pretty common, so yeah 96 or 128MB ram would probably be perfectly reasonable in 1999. The main ram problem is X and some of the applications for it (KDE being the worst offender I think, with gnome a close second, although openoffice and firefox may in some cases be even worse on ram use). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 3 21:14:37 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 17:14:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: free: exotic monitors (very high res monochrome) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A month ago, I offered these monitors to TLUG (and then Craigslist and Freecycle). Nobody was crazy enough to take them. So I've sweetened the deal! >From a generous freecycler, I got an adapter (13w3 to VGA) that would allow you to connect one of these to a VGA controller card. All you have to do is figure out the settings. Most controllers could not drive these at full resolution, but that isn't required. I used one monitor for a few minutes yesterday (on a Win95 box with the ImageAccel 2 video card). It looked nice. Last call! Otherwise these are going to Environment Day soon http://www.toronto.ca/environment_days/schedule.htm (At past Environment Days I've seen a lot of hardware that could have been reused. Instead, they were destined to be scrapped. Sad, but probably economically sound.) | Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 17:49:01 -0500 (EST) | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | To: Toronto Linux Users Group | Subject: free: exotic monitors (very high res monochrome) | | I have two amazing monitors that I've barely used. | | Cornerstone DualPage 2092 CRT | - comes with PCI video card "ImageAccel 2" | - fixed frequency (hence specialized video card) | - 2040x1664 resolution! | - 19" viewable | - grey scale (16 levels with this video card) | - Manufactured 1997 July | | Bad news: | | - the only drivers are binary: OS/2 (2.11, Warp 3.0), MS Win 3.1, MS | Win 95, MS Win NT (3.51 and 4.0). (There were SCO drivers but | they've been lost to the world.) | | - no specifications. Any new drivers will require reverse | engineering. | | - phosphor is slightly burnt (these monitors were originally used for | form-filling). Focus needs to be improved. | | I used one for a bit under MS Win95, using an X for Win95 to access a | real system (Linux). | | Under Linux, the monitor works, but is totally wasted because the only | supported resolution is 640x480. The video card has a Cirrus Logic | VGA chip for this resolution but is custom for the real resolutions. | | The easiest way to support this monitor might be to use a different | controller card. | | TLUGers get first crack at these two monitors. Reply soon, they'll go | fast (I hope). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Eric.Malenfant-xNZwKgViW5gAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 3 21:23:26 2007 From: Eric.Malenfant-xNZwKgViW5gAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Eric.Malenfant-xNZwKgViW5gAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 16:23:26 -0500 Subject: : Re: free: exotic monitors (very high res monochrome) Message-ID: <98A4A2882BDF3249B4A3650DA062799F01A22C88@daebe100.NOE.Nokia.com> Mobile email powered by Nokia Intellisync ----Original message---- From: ext D. Hugh Redelmeier Received: 4/3/2007 To: Toronto Linux Users Group Subject: [TLUG]: Re: free: exotic monitors (very high res monochrome) A month ago, I offered these monitors to TLUG (and then Craigslist and Freecycle). Nobody was crazy enough to take them. So I've sweetened the deal! >From a generous freecycler, I got an adapter (13w3 to VGA) that would allow you to connect one of these to a VGA controller card. All you have to do is figure out the settings. Most controllers could not drive these at full resolution, but that isn't required. I used one monitor for a few minutes yesterday (on a Win95 box with the ImageAccel 2 video card). It looked nice. Last call! Otherwise these are going to Environment Day soon http://www.toronto.ca/environment_days/schedule.htm (At past Environment Days I've seen a lot of hardware that could have been reused. Instead, they were destined to be scrapped. Sad, but probably economically sound.) | Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 17:49:01 -0500 (EST) | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | To: Toronto Linux Users Group | Subject: free: exotic monitors (very high res monochrome) | | I have two amazing monitors that I've barely used. | | Cornerstone DualPage 2092 CRT | - comes with PCI video card "ImageAccel 2" | - fixed frequency (hence specialized video card) | - 2040x1664 resolution! | - 19" viewable | - grey scale (16 levels with this video card) | - Manufactured 1997 July | | Bad news: | | - the only drivers are binary: OS/2 (2.11, Warp 3.0), MS Win 3.1, MS | Win 95, MS Win NT (3.51 and 4.0). (There were SCO drivers but | they've been lost to the world.) | | - no specifications. Any new drivers will require reverse | engineering. | | - phosphor is slightly burnt (these monitors were originally used for | form-filling). Focus needs to be improved. | | I used one for a bit under MS Win95, using an X for Win95 to access a | real system (Linux). | | Under Linux, the monitor works, but is totally wasted because the only | supported resolution is 640x480. The video card has a Cirrus Logic | VGA chip for this resolution but is custom for the real resolutions. | | The easiest way to support this monitor might be to use a different | controller card. | | TLUGers get first crack at these two monitors. Reply soon, they'll go | fast (I hope). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists My mobile email is powered by Nokia's Intellisync Mobile Suite -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 3 21:28:13 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 17:28:13 -0400 Subject: free: exotic monitors (very high res monochrome) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070403212813.GS3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 05:14:37PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > A month ago, I offered these monitors to TLUG (and then Craigslist and > Freecycle). Nobody was crazy enough to take them. > > So I've sweetened the deal! > > From a generous freecycler, I got an adapter (13w3 to VGA) that would > allow you to connect one of these to a VGA controller card. All you > have to do is figure out the settings. Most controllers could not > drive these at full resolution, but that isn't required. Hopefully the right kind since each company used a slightly different pinout on the 13w3 connectors (SGI and Sun had seperate pinouts for their use of those connectors). Some Hitachi monitors used them too, and I think they used Sun pinout, but I am not sure (I am sure they did not use SGI pinout however. I tried that) > I used one monitor for a few minutes yesterday (on a Win95 box with > the ImageAccel 2 video card). It looked nice. Much as I love old weird stuff, CRTs just take too much room, and monochrome just wasn't ever that interesting. :) Probably use too much power too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 3 21:28:55 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 17:28:55 -0400 Subject: Yet Another reason to use linux... In-Reply-To: <22e435080704030927r2f9ead10u7dfb9a14aaa98a9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070321044701.GB1973@waltdnes.org> <1e55af990704030900i3679dab8u847793aedfa0d5db@mail.gmail.com> <22e435080704030927r2f9ead10u7dfb9a14aaa98a9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200704031728.56512.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Tuesday 03 April 2007, Sheldon Mustard wrote: > On 4/3/07, Sy Ali wrote: > > On 4/3/07, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > > I wonder why there isn't a mainline distro that is reasonably > > > functional and yet "parties like it's 1999". If you know what > > > you are doing, you can slim some distros down or pick slim > > > off-beat ones, but the "know what you are doing" is the catch. > > > > There are lots of choices - and most of them suck. I've spent a > > bunch of time looking through the selection only to realise that > > it would be easier to strip down a mainstream distro to a > > reasomable level than deal with the crusty old "not updated since > > 1999" distros out there. > > xubuntu runs pretty well on 96 or 128 MB RAM is that 1999 levels > probably not eh. > > SJM I'm a long-time KDE user and love everything about it but its resource utilization. KDE and the facilities and tools it provides are ingrained in my development process. I also love my trusty old ThinkPad A21p. I'm not fussed by the fact that it's a P3/850 or that some of the markings on the keyboard have worn off. I'm a touch typist and have developed muscle memory for which keys I need to push. The only things I find lacking on this machine are RAM and disk space. The latter is easy to address for a very nominal amount but the 512M of RAM I have is already maxed out so that limits the continuing usefulness of this machine as a developer's platform. In what turned out to be a futile attempt at finding a reasonable alternative to KDE as a desktop manager while still continuing to use the KDE tools that I depend on, I tested fluxbox and XFce. I'm running Fedora Core 6 on this machine. It's a piggy distro and for the most part, I don't really like it but I don't have the time to go on another round of testing different distros right now. I already run Etch, Mandriva, CentOS, and Ubuntu (server-only) on other machines and I've run Kubuntu, OpenSuse, Mandriva, and Gentoo on this laptop so I've already evaluated a few alternatives and have found them wanting in one area or another. I don't find that APT has any clear advantage over RPM, despite the hype around it but that's a different discussion, which I'll leave for another day. Empirical testing of fluxbox, XFce, and KDE on my laptop contradicts the folklore of XFce being a lightweight alternative to KDE or Gnome. Speaking of Gnome, I couldn't be bothered testing it because I knew I'd never use it and would have to remove all the Gnome junk after installing it just for testing anyway. Besides, in previous tests of Gnome within the last couple of years, Gnome's memory footprint was indeed lower than KDE's but it wasn't enough to compensate for its ugly UI and its poor attention to usability. If I have to put up with that, I'll go the whole way and just use something like fluxbox. My testing methods were as follows. I ran four tests, the first with no X running (init 3), the second with fluxbox, the third with XFce, and the last with KDE. Between each test, I rebooted the machine to clear any potential after-effects of the desktop manager in question not cleaning up properly after itself. The same daemons were running in all cases. Only in the KDE case was I running any applets, such as knewsticker, kalarm, kgpg, klipper, and a host of others. If anything, the KDE memory consumption would be lower if I didn't run those applets so in effect, I was discriminating against KDE, my favourite. These tests were done in mid-February, 2007 with the latest versions of the respective desktop managers from the Fedora repositories. I've pasted the results of the "free -m" command for the four test cases below. I've modified the spacing on the first two rows in the hope that the formatting won't be screwed up by line wrapping. My baseline - console only -------------------------- total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 502 212 290 0 14 152 -/+ buffers/cache: 44 457 Swap: 2000 0 2000 fluxbox ------- total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 502 363 138 0 29 272 -/+ buffers/cache: 61 440 Swap: 2000 0 2000 XFce ---- total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 502 497 5 0 36 322 -/+ buffers/cache: 138 363 Swap: 2000 0 2000 KDE --- total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 502 445 57 0 33 310 -/+ buffers/cache: 101 401 Swap: 2000 0 2000 I ended up sticking with KDE because the difference in memory consumption was not worth the loss of productivity and inconvenience of switching to fluxbox and there were no gains to be had using XFce anyway. I simply don't believe Xubuntu would be very pleasant to use on a 96M or 128M system. My son is running that very distro on a Celeron 366 with 196M of RAM and while it is barely useable, it is slower than when that same machine was running Windows 98. I think we do Linux a disservice when we make these claims that are not only unsupported but actually contradicted by the evidence. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 3 22:51:28 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:51:28 -0400 Subject: Yet Another reason to use linux... In-Reply-To: <200704031728.56512.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070321044701.GB1973@waltdnes.org> <1e55af990704030900i3679dab8u847793aedfa0d5db@mail.gmail.com> <22e435080704030927r2f9ead10u7dfb9a14aaa98a9@mail.gmail.com> <200704031728.56512.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20070403225128.GT3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 05:28:55PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > I'm a long-time KDE user and love everything about it but its resource > utilization. KDE and the facilities and tools it provides are > ingrained in my development process. I also love my trusty old > ThinkPad A21p. I'm not fussed by the fact that it's a P3/850 or that > some of the markings on the keyboard have worn off. I'm a touch > typist and have developed muscle memory for which keys I need to > push. The only things I find lacking on this machine are RAM and disk > space. The latter is easy to address for a very nominal amount but > the 512M of RAM I have is already maxed out so that limits the > continuing usefulness of this machine as a developer's platform. > > In what turned out to be a futile attempt at finding a reasonable > alternative to KDE as a desktop manager while still continuing to use > the KDE tools that I depend on, I tested fluxbox and XFce. I'm > running Fedora Core 6 on this machine. It's a piggy distro and for > the most part, I don't really like it but I don't have the time to go > on another round of testing different distros right now. I already > run Etch, Mandriva, CentOS, and Ubuntu (server-only) on other > machines and I've run Kubuntu, OpenSuse, Mandriva, and Gentoo on this > laptop so I've already evaluated a few alternatives and have found > them wanting in one area or another. I don't find that APT has any > clear advantage over RPM, despite the hype around it but that's a > different discussion, which I'll leave for another day. If you use the kde tools you will get the resource requirements of KDE. The window manager part is actually not a big deal resource wise, the kde subsystem that all the tools use for communications is. So pretty much any kde tool will cause a resource problem. As for apt versus rpm, well that's not really the thing that makes debian better. It's a nifty tool, it managed the downloads and upgrades for you and resolving the dependancies, something which took years for rpm based systems to gain. The real reason it is better is that it's packages actually have accurate dependancy information, and are put together consistently and in a way that everything can work together and get along. It doesn't matter if your packaging tools work well if the packages they are managing are crap. I just upgraded my 486 which I installed Debian 2.1 on in 1999. It is now upgrading to 4.0 (ok so I am doing it slightly early), and other than having to purge a couple of ancient packages for netscape 4.77 I forgot I had installed (which were getting in the way of upgrading to X.org it told me), the upgrade has gone just fine (the power failure in the middle was a bit inconvinient, but the upgrade system doesn't mind it would seem.) It has gone through 2.1, 2.2, 3.0, 3.1 and now 4.0. Gotta love quality packaging of software, by people that do it just because they care, and hence release when it is ready and not a moment before. > Empirical testing of fluxbox, XFce, and KDE on my laptop contradicts > the folklore of XFce being a lightweight alternative to KDE or Gnome. > Speaking of Gnome, I couldn't be bothered testing it because I knew > I'd never use it and would have to remove all the Gnome junk after > installing it just for testing anyway. Besides, in previous tests of > Gnome within the last couple of years, Gnome's memory footprint was > indeed lower than KDE's but it wasn't enough to compensate for its > ugly UI and its poor attention to usability. If I have to put up with > that, I'll go the whole way and just use something like fluxbox. I actually find the current version of gnome much better than they were in the past, and have actually ditched kde in favour of it. Now using a different window manager is no help as long as you continue using anything kde related. > My testing methods were as follows. I ran four tests, the first with > no X running (init 3), the second with fluxbox, the third with XFce, > and the last with KDE. Between each test, I rebooted the machine to > clear any potential after-effects of the desktop manager in question > not cleaning up properly after itself. The same daemons were running > in all cases. Only in the KDE case was I running any applets, such as > knewsticker, kalarm, kgpg, klipper, and a host of others. If > anything, the KDE memory consumption would be lower if I didn't run > those applets so in effect, I was discriminating against KDE, my > favourite. These tests were done in mid-February, 2007 with the > latest versions of the respective desktop managers from the Fedora > repositories. > > I've pasted the results of the "free -m" command for the four test > cases below. I've modified the spacing on the first two rows in the > hope that the formatting won't be screwed up by line wrapping. > > My baseline - console only > -------------------------- > total used free shared buffers cached > Mem: 502 212 290 0 14 152 > -/+ buffers/cache: 44 457 > Swap: 2000 0 2000 > > fluxbox > ------- > total used free shared buffers cached > Mem: 502 363 138 0 29 272 > -/+ buffers/cache: 61 440 > Swap: 2000 0 2000 > > XFce > ---- > total used free shared buffers cached > Mem: 502 497 5 0 36 322 > -/+ buffers/cache: 138 363 > Swap: 2000 0 2000 > > KDE > --- > total used free shared buffers cached > Mem: 502 445 57 0 33 310 > -/+ buffers/cache: 101 401 > Swap: 2000 0 2000 > > I ended up sticking with KDE because the difference in memory > consumption was not worth the loss of productivity and inconvenience > of switching to fluxbox and there were no gains to be had using XFce > anyway. > > I simply don't believe Xubuntu would be very pleasant to use on a 96M > or 128M system. My son is running that very distro on a Celeron 366 > with 196M of RAM and while it is barely useable, it is slower than > when that same machine was running Windows 98. I think we do Linux a > disservice when we make these claims that are not only unsupported > but actually contradicted by the evidence. Well Linux is not to blame when people choose to run bloated applications on it. I don't blame windows for some of the java monstrosities I have encountered. Most office applications, graphical browsers, and such are simply amazingly inefficient on resources. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 4 01:09:43 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 21:09:43 -0400 Subject: Yet Another reason to use linux... In-Reply-To: <20070403225128.GT3509-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070321044701.GB1973@waltdnes.org> <1e55af990704030900i3679dab8u847793aedfa0d5db@mail.gmail.com> <22e435080704030927r2f9ead10u7dfb9a14aaa98a9@mail.gmail.com> <200704031728.56512.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20070403225128.GT3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990704031809r5a95d3cq9f4c09aa66f8690a@mail.gmail.com> Just a quick note on the KDE thread. I've tried and tried to find alternatives to a number of KDE applications, but that seems to be a hopeless cause. There is another thread which has talked about finding the Linux equivalent of various Windows apps. I wonder how it would change if the equivalent apps were organized so people could also look for non-KDE alternatives. Some curious strugles for me have included - kate (hmm, with nedit maybe? or just bone up on vim) - k3b (various good choices these days) - kgpg (all I want to do is have encrypted text in my clipboard and be able to decrypt it into a popup window and the reverse - apparently this is impossible with the other choices) - etc.. It's quite an adventure to try to step away from some of the really great KDE applications. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 4 01:17:29 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 21:17:29 -0400 Subject: Yet Another reason to use linux... In-Reply-To: <1e55af990704031809r5a95d3cq9f4c09aa66f8690a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070321044701.GB1973@waltdnes.org> <1e55af990704030900i3679dab8u847793aedfa0d5db@mail.gmail.com> <22e435080704030927r2f9ead10u7dfb9a14aaa98a9@mail.gmail.com> <200704031728.56512.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20070403225128.GT3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990704031809r5a95d3cq9f4c09aa66f8690a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990704031817v4d9b85by3a1dd150c95d8a9b@mail.gmail.com> On 4/3/07, Sy Ali wrote: > - kgpg (all I want to do is have encrypted text in my clipboard and be > able to decrypt it into a popup window and the reverse - apparently > this is impossible with the other choices) Bless those kwluggers: http://firegpg.tuxfamily.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 4 01:23:26 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 21:23:26 -0400 Subject: free: exotic monitors (very high res monochrome) In-Reply-To: <20070403212813.GS3509-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070403212813.GS3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990704031823h639619b7x7a8598b46bce5509@mail.gmail.com> On 4/3/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Probably use too much power too. They're *great* for that chilly spare room. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 4 02:21:49 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:21:49 -0400 Subject: Yet Another reason to use linux... In-Reply-To: References: <20070321044701.GB1973@waltdnes.org> <20070329220304.GA22788@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20070404022149.GA4149@waltdnes.org> On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 01:30:14AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote > Most mainline Linux distros seem to be roughly as piggy as WinXP. > Luckilly Vista has come out, so the bar has moved (the wrong way). > > I wonder why there isn't a mainline distro that is reasonably > functional and yet "parties like it's 1999". If you know what you > are doing, you can slim some distros down or pick slim off-beat ones, > but the "know what you are doing" is the catch. I've ranted on this list about that very thing before. The problem is the apps. The developer of App A is too lazy to write one or two functions direct to X API, so he uses a lib that has most of GNOME as a dependancy. The developer of App B does something similar, except it's with KDE. The developer of App C pulls in Java. Etc, etc, next thing you know, you've got a gazillion libs on your hard drive. Try running these 3 apps simultaneously, and you end up all those dlls loaded in memory simultaneously. And another question... why is it that Java can be squeezed into a cell phone, but it clutters up my hard drive with 3/4 of a gig of garbage (*NOT* counting the source code)? -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 4 14:25:22 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:25:22 -0400 Subject: Yet Another reason to use linux... In-Reply-To: <1e55af990704031809r5a95d3cq9f4c09aa66f8690a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070321044701.GB1973@waltdnes.org> <1e55af990704030900i3679dab8u847793aedfa0d5db@mail.gmail.com> <22e435080704030927r2f9ead10u7dfb9a14aaa98a9@mail.gmail.com> <200704031728.56512.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20070403225128.GT3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990704031809r5a95d3cq9f4c09aa66f8690a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070404142522.GU3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 09:09:43PM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > Just a quick note on the KDE thread. > > I've tried and tried to find alternatives to a number of KDE > applications, but that seems to be a hopeless cause. > > There is another thread which has talked about finding the Linux > equivalent of various Windows apps. I wonder how it would change if > the equivalent apps were organized so people could also look for > non-KDE alternatives. > > Some curious strugles for me have included > > - kate (hmm, with nedit maybe? or just bone up on vim) I only use vim. gvim isn't bad but I just use vim. I hate dealing with most other editors. > - k3b (various good choices these days) The nautilus cdburner plugin actually works surprisingly well. I personally prefer mkisofs and company from the command line. > - kgpg (all I want to do is have encrypted text in my clipboard and be > able to decrypt it into a popup window and the reverse - apparently > this is impossible with the other choices) Never heard of that, nor ever thought of needing such a tool. no idea. > It's quite an adventure to try to step away from some of the really > great KDE applications. I guess I never used most of them. I really just want working terminal windows and the ability to run a web browser (and certainly not konqueror). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 4 14:28:05 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:28:05 -0400 Subject: Yet Another reason to use linux... In-Reply-To: <20070404022149.GA4149-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070321044701.GB1973@waltdnes.org> <20070329220304.GA22788@waltdnes.org> <20070404022149.GA4149@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20070404142805.GV3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 10:21:49PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I've ranted on this list about that very thing before. The problem is > the apps. The developer of App A is too lazy to write one or two > functions direct to X API, so he uses a lib that has most of GNOME as a > dependancy. The developer of App B does something similar, except it's > with KDE. The developer of App C pulls in Java. Etc, etc, next thing > you know, you've got a gazillion libs on your hard drive. Try running > these 3 apps simultaneously, and you end up all those dlls loaded in > memory simultaneously. > > And another question... why is it that Java can be squeezed into a > cell phone, but it clutters up my hard drive with 3/4 of a gig of > garbage (*NOT* counting the source code)? Because java for mobile and java for other systems are not the same. The mobile java is stripped down a lot, since it is for a much more specific purpose and target. You can not just take a random java program and try running it on a cell phone. It won't work. You have to explicitly make a java program for a mobile device to have it work on cell phones. There is a reason java for mobile devices has a different name. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 4 14:29:46 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:29:46 -0400 Subject: free: exotic monitors (very high res monochrome) In-Reply-To: <1e55af990704031823h639619b7x7a8598b46bce5509-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070403212813.GS3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990704031823h639619b7x7a8598b46bce5509@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070404142946.GW3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 09:23:26PM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > They're *great* for that chilly spare room. =) So is my old sun 3/50 (with the extra 8MB ram on a board between the cpu and mainboard) with the 19" B/W monitor. It was a bit noisy but it sure helped keep the place warm in the winter. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 4 17:14:08 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 13:14:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: free: exotic monitors (very high res monochrome) In-Reply-To: <20070404142946.GW3509-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070403212813.GS3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990704031823h639619b7x7a8598b46bce5509@mail.gmail.com> <20070404142946.GW3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 09:23:26PM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: | > They're *great* for that chilly spare room. =) | | So is my old sun 3/50 (with the extra 8MB ram on a board between the cpu | and mainboard) with the 19" B/W monitor. It was a bit noisy but it sure | helped keep the place warm in the winter. :) OK, so you know how great that Sun monitor was back in the day (1152x900) (I seem to remember that you got it much later). PC monitors of the time were not even VGA (that was first introduced in 1987). This monitor is 2040x1664, close to twice the resolution of the Sun's in each dimension. And it is grey-scale, not just black and white, which counts as even more resolution. About power consumption: I did some measurements of it and a Viewsonic PT775 (17" VGA with a Trinitron or Trinitron-like tube): 7-8w PT775 asleep 70-71w PT775 text login screen (mostly black) 73-74w PT775 text mode, mostly white 84w-86w PT775 Red Hat Linux 8 desktop, moderate resolution 5w DP2092 asleep 120w-127w DP2092 active That does not seem too bad to me. | From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 4 10:25:50 2007 | Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Yet Another reason to use linux... | I really just want working terminal | windows and the ability to run a web browser (and certainly not | konqueror). For browsing, this monitor isn't great but it works: too many sites use colour. For a terminal window, this monitor is very hard to beat. Monochrome/grey-scale works much better than colour because the pixels can blend -- no dot-triads. Colour monitors of necessity look grainy (unless you invent a new technology or you have resolution much beyond what is available now). A programmer can never have enough pixels. My current main monitor is the 30" Dell LCD with only about 20% more pixels that this grey-scale (2560x1600). If only this had an X driver. The controller cards are PCI so these monitors could easily be used as the second (and third) on a system. I daydreamed of reverse-engineering the binary drivers, but I never could trick myself into wasting the time. Using a VGA card would be simpler, but my desk is now full of LCDs. It looks as if these are getting pitched :-( -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 4 18:47:04 2007 From: jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:47:04 -0400 Subject: SDL on usb stick Message-ID: <4613F2A8.2030100@totaltravelmarketing.com> Hi List, I have a 1GB usb stick, I tried loading it with DamnSmallLinux 3.3 on it, but after running syslinux ver 32 and 30 and creating a 250 partition just allow some extra room, and left the rest unpartition, I am unable to make to run , I ran the pendrive.bat and dslbase.bat from a Windows station and both run fine. During bootup I got on one sation the message "missing os" and trying on another station, it would just bypass the usb after checking if there is anything on it. I also tried using Puppy, got it to startup the OS, but just after I press F2 or ENTER to continue with loading the kernel, it just hangs. Has anybody tried this before, thanks in advance for any comments Jose -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 4 19:52:22 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:52:22 -0400 Subject: free: exotic monitors (very high res monochrome) In-Reply-To: References: <20070403212813.GS3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990704031823h639619b7x7a8598b46bce5509@mail.gmail.com> <20070404142946.GW3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070404195221.GX3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 01:14:08PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > OK, so you know how great that Sun monitor was back in the day > (1152x900) (I seem to remember that you got it much later). PC > monitors of the time were not even VGA (that was first introduced in > 1987). Yes the sun screens worked well, for text and other things that black and white was ok for. Anything graphical was just hopeless, and any browser after netscape 3 seems to just not display in any usable way in b/w mode. > This monitor is 2040x1664, close to twice the resolution of the Sun's > in each dimension. And it is grey-scale, not just black and white, > which counts as even more resolution. Certainly a much better screen. It was probably a dream monitor for desktop publishing years ago. > About power consumption: I did some measurements of it and a Viewsonic > PT775 (17" VGA with a Trinitron or Trinitron-like tube): > > 7-8w PT775 asleep > 70-71w PT775 text login screen (mostly black) > 73-74w PT775 text mode, mostly white > 84w-86w PT775 Red Hat Linux 8 desktop, moderate resolution > > 5w DP2092 asleep > 120w-127w DP2092 active > > That does not seem too bad to me. No not too bad really. > For browsing, this monitor isn't great but it works: too many sites > use colour. > > For a terminal window, this monitor is very hard to beat. > Monochrome/grey-scale works much better than colour because the pixels > can blend -- no dot-triads. Colour monitors of necessity look grainy > (unless you invent a new technology or you have resolution much beyond > what is available now). Hmm, I tend to find blending pixels make things look blurry and not in a good way. For images it is a good thing of course. > A programmer can never have enough pixels. My current main monitor is the > 30" Dell LCD with only about 20% more pixels that this grey-scale > (2560x1600). Sure, but those are colour pixels. Perhaps what you want is one of those 22" or so 3840x2400 things. > If only this had an X driver. The controller cards are PCI so these > monitors could easily be used as the second (and third) on a system. > I daydreamed of reverse-engineering the binary drivers, but I never > could trick myself into wasting the time. Using a VGA card would be > simpler, but my desk is now full of LCDs. > > It looks as if these are getting pitched :-( If they had colour they would have much more appeal I suspect. And at 19" they are a bit small. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 4 19:53:53 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:53:53 -0400 Subject: SDL on usb stick In-Reply-To: <4613F2A8.2030100-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <4613F2A8.2030100@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <20070404195353.GY3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 02:47:04PM -0400, Jose wrote: > I have a 1GB usb stick, I tried loading it with DamnSmallLinux 3.3 on > it, but after running syslinux ver 32 and 30 and creating a 250 > partition just allow some extra room, and left the rest unpartition, I > am unable to make to run , I ran the pendrive.bat and dslbase.bat from a > Windows station and both run fine. > > During bootup I got on one sation the message "missing os" and trying on > another station, it would just bypass the usb after checking if there is > anything on it. > > I also tried using Puppy, got it to startup the OS, but just after I > press F2 or ENTER to continue with loading the kernel, it just hangs. > > Has anybody tried this before, thanks in advance for any comments There isn't really a standard for booting from USB. There are a few different ways to do it. Perhaps your bios doesn't support the method your setup wants to use. Or maybe the bios is not set to boot from usb, or if it is, it is set to boot from usb using the wrong method. What choices does the bios have and which did you pick? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 4 21:46:29 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 17:46:29 -0400 Subject: agpgart detection hangs FC5 boot process on IBM xSeries 300 Message-ID: <1f13df280704041446jcf104a3hd242b213ef338b70@mail.gmail.com> My brother has an older IBM xSeries 300 (I think that's the correct name) at work, and they're trying to run Fedora Core 5 on it. I would have suggested another distro, but they need FC5 for a specific application, or so they're told by their consultant. The machine is a 1U server, Celeron 950MHz(?), dual IBM NICs, 640Mb memory, S3 Savage Pro 4 video. The installation goes fine, and everything works fine if you run the CD in rescue mode - the NICs work, but everything is text mode. They aren't concerned with X. The real problem comes when you try to boot from the installed FC 2.6.15 kernel. It hangs on boot every time. I used GRUB's command line to removed "rhgb" (Red Hat Graphical Boot, which wasn't running anyway), and "quiet". After I'd done that, I could see we were getting to agpgart detection, at which point the server hangs. The video card is onboard and the system sees it as PCI rather than AGP. We don't need to use RAM for video memory since we're not using X. But I can't figure out how to stop the kernel from trying to detect agpgart. I tried kernel command line parameters "noagpgart" and "agpgart=no" but both of these were wild guesses and didn't change anything. With the HD in a different box (another Celeron they had around, but a desktop not a server) I compiled a new kernel using the latest kernel.???.src.rpm and rpmbuild ... I tried to comment out any configuration of AGPGART, but apparently I wasn't successful (I'm NOT a kernel expert): it's a 2.6.20 kernel that runs fine in the desktop but tanks at the same place in the IBM. It's interesting and annoying that the install/rescue kernel DOESN'T tank on agpgart detection, but I don't know how to capitalize on that. Any and all suggestions welcome. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 4 23:41:21 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 19:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SDL on usb stick In-Reply-To: <20070404195353.GY3509-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4613F2A8.2030100@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20070404195353.GY3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | There isn't really a standard for booting from USB. There are a few | different ways to do it. I think that there is (after googling a bit). But it does not say what the contents of the medium should look like: http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/usb_msc_boot_1.0.pdf I always assumed that you organized a flash memory like a hard disk partition OR like a partition. The first sector would be a Boot Record and would contain a 512-byte boot block. I'm more confused now that I've looked it up. Of course bootable CD's don't look like that. They have a virtual floppy image that the BIOS can boot from and make available to the boot code etc. through INT 13. As a virtual floppy, it is allowed to be 2.88M, even though few real floppies were that size. (Apparently it could also emulate a hard drive). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Torito_(CD-ROM_standard) Of course the PC world had to re-invent bootable CDs (1995). Sun had differently bootable CDs quite a bit earlier. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 4 23:45:20 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 19:45:20 -0400 Subject: agpgart detection hangs FC5 boot process on IBM xSeries 300 In-Reply-To: <1f13df280704041446jcf104a3hd242b213ef338b70-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280704041446jcf104a3hd242b213ef338b70@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200704041945.21202.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Wednesday 04 April 2007, Giles Orr wrote: > My brother has an older IBM xSeries 300 (I think that's the correct > name) at work, and they're trying to run Fedora Core 5 on it. I > would have suggested another distro, but they need FC5 for a > specific application, or so they're told by their consultant. The > machine is a 1U server, Celeron 950MHz(?), dual IBM NICs, 640Mb > memory, S3 Savage Pro 4 video. The installation goes fine, and > everything works fine if you run the CD in rescue mode - the NICs > work, but everything is text mode. They aren't concerned with X. [snip] Try booting using Knoppix or some other live distro to see what happens. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 4 23:55:40 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 19:55:40 -0400 Subject: agpgart detection hangs FC5 boot process on IBM xSeries 300 In-Reply-To: <200704041945.21202.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280704041446jcf104a3hd242b213ef338b70@mail.gmail.com> <200704041945.21202.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280704041655l1c199e90i24a0bc1a13a9c17d@mail.gmail.com> On 4/4/07, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On Wednesday 04 April 2007, Giles Orr wrote: > > My brother has an older IBM xSeries 300 (I think that's the correct > > name) at work, and they're trying to run Fedora Core 5 on it. I > > would have suggested another distro, but they need FC5 for a > > specific application, or so they're told by their consultant. The > > machine is a 1U server, Celeron 950MHz(?), dual IBM NICs, 640Mb > > memory, S3 Savage Pro 4 video. The installation goes fine, and > > everything works fine if you run the CD in rescue mode - the NICs > > work, but everything is text mode. They aren't concerned with X. > [snip] > > Try booting using Knoppix or some other live distro to see what > happens. Sorry, I should have mentioned: that was pretty much my first thought. Knoppix hung completely, even in failsafe mode. I apologize that I didn't write down the errors or where it hung ... but I did try it. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 4 23:57:05 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:57:05 -0400 Subject: SDL on usb stick In-Reply-To: <4613F2A8.2030100-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <4613F2A8.2030100@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <46143B51.4030007@ve3syb.ca> Jose wrote: > I have a 1GB usb stick, I tried loading it with DamnSmallLinux 3.3 on > it, but after running syslinux ver 32 and 30 and creating a 250 > partition just allow some extra room, and left the rest unpartition, I > am unable to make to run [snip] > Has anybody tried this before, thanks in advance for any comments I have done this. I found most of the information I had found on the net didn't seem to work very well (if at all). The information I found usually involved the use of syslinux. I finally came up with my own set of steps that seem to work reliably. The following notes are what I typed up for myself a while back about how I make a USB key bootable. Making a USB key bootable The information below provides an overview of the steps you need to follow in order to create a bootable ext2 based file system partition on a USB key. The information below is based on the assumptions that your USB key is /dev/sda and that it can be mounted to /media/usbdisk. Run 'fdisk /dev/sda' and create at least one partition and mark it as bootable. The following steps will assume the bootable partition is the first one (ie. /dev/sda1). Now that you have a bootable partition, run the following commands: mke2fs /dev/sda1 mount /dev/sda1 /media/usbdisk grub-install --no-floppy --root-directory=/media/usbdisk /dev/sda cd /media/usbdisk/boot/grub rm fat_stage1_5 ffs_stage_1_5 iso9660_stage_1_5 jfs_stage_1_5 minix_stage_1_5 rm reiserfs_stage_1_5 ufs2_stage_1_5 vstatfs_stage_1_5 xfs_stage_1_5 cd - At this point, the only remaining stage1_5 file in /media/usbdisk/boot/grub should be the one named 'e2fs_stage1_5'. The remaining information is for use when remastering a CD-ROM image for use on a USB key. Delete (or don't copy) the stage1, stage2, and *stage1_5 files from the /boot/grub directory of the ISO being remastered for a USB key prior to copying the ISO files over to the USB key. In the grub directory, create a symlink called menu.1st which points to grub.conf. Add bootusb1 or bootusb2 to the kernel command line of the grub.conf file in /boot/grub. P.S. Thanks for asking about this. I meant to add this information as a page on my web site. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 5 02:18:30 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 22:18:30 -0400 Subject: Reviewing Window Managers Message-ID: <1f13df280704041918h6d47e8adu2b2f6aadfe5e8e37@mail.gmail.com> In 2003 I tried out a bunch of window managers because IceWM went mildly wonky when I started using a dual-head arrangement. I'd been using IceWM for a couple years but it's Xinerama support was somewhat unstable back then. When one of my annual conferences came around I wrote up a paper on a bunch of WMs that I'd tested - information on style, behaviour, memory usage, how good the documentation was ... It was a selective list of WMs entitled "The Other Window Managers," because of its exclusion of KDE and Gnome. I figure everyone knows about those (and yes, I know they're "desktop environments," not "window managers"). You can see the original paper on my website at http://www.gilesorr.com/papers/otherwm2003/book1.html . Because I'm mildly insane and definitely have too much time on my hands, I've decided to update this paper and make it comprehensive - all WMs available in English, excluding Gnome, KDE, and proprietary WMs. Right at the moment that list stretches to about 130 window managers, not all of which are actually still available or compilable. I'll probably also be applying a cut-off date, probably January 2005 - nothing that hasn't been updated since then. Older ones will be mentioned, but not given a thorough review. And yes, this may never get completed. Where I could use some help ... - history: I was a relatively early starter with Linux (1994) but I think there are people on this list who were using Unix 20 years prior to that. Feel free to take a look at http://www.gilesorr.com/papers/otherwm2007/images/owm.png in all its ludicrous glory and tell me what I've missed. It's an attempt to document influence between WMs. It's also big and unwieldy. - tracking down WMs I've missed: please look at the following list and see if any WMs you know are missing. - 3dwm (.org domain for sale) - 5Dwm (http://5dwm.org/home.html) + 9wm / w9wm + aewm + AEWM++ aka Sapphire (deb+"goodies") (http://freshmeat.net/projects/sapphire/) - ahwm (http://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~ahiorean/ahwm/ latest 2002) - amaterus (http://www.taiyaki.org/amaterus/index.en.html but source has vanished) - amiwm (deb) - anarchy (http://proteus.freeshell.org/anarchy/) - B4Step (http://b4step.free.fr/) - BadWM (http://badwm.sourceforge.net/ "not actively maintained") - beryl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryl_%28window_manager%29) + Blackbox - blwm (http://directory.fsf.org/blwm.html Portugese) - clementine (http://freshmeat.net/projects/clementine/) - clfswm (http://freshmeat.net/projects/clfswm/) - compiz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compiz) + CTWM - cwm (http://monkey.org/~marius/pages/?page=cwm) - dwm - Eclipse (http://common-lisp.net/project/eclipse/) - ede (http://ede.sourceforge.net/) + Enlightenment - epiwm (http://www.nongnu.org/epiwm/ latest 2001) - EvilPoison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EvilPoison) + EvilWM - expocity (http://www.pycage.de/#expocity - mixed metacity+expose) - failsafewm (http://freshmeat.net/projects/failsafewm/) - Firebox (http://freshmeat.net/projects/firebox/) + Fluxbox + FLWM - FOX WM (http://freshmeat.net/projects/fxwm/) - fpcbol (http://sourceforge.net/projects/fpcbol but is it a WM?) - Framer (needs very outdated Eiffel) - fvwm + FVWM2 - fvwm95 - fvwm-crystal (http://freshmeat.net/projects/fvwm-crystal/) + Golem (http://freshmeat.net/projects/golem/) - gwm - GwML (site dead) + HackedBox - HaZe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HaZe) + Heliwm (http://www.cc.rim.or.jp/~hok/heliwm/) + Ice WM - Integrity (http://integrity.sourceforge.net/) - Interface WM (http://freshmeat.net/projects/interfacewm/) + Ion - JD4X http://jdx.sourceforge.net/ - JWM (Joe's Window Manager) - Kahakai - Karmen (http://freshmeat.net/projects/karmen/) - kwin (KDE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KWin) - larswm (deb) - lwm (deb http://freshmeat.net/projects/lwm/) - Luminocity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminocity) - maewm - Manix (http://freshmeat.net/projects/manix-de/) + Matchbox - mavosxwm (http://mavosxwm.sourceforge.net/ dead) + Metacity - Metisse (http://insitu.lri.fr/metisse/) - miwm (http://miwm.sourceforge.net/basic.php) - mlvwm (http://www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~y-miyata/mlvwm.html Apple clone, RIP 2000) - mosquito WM (http://freshmeat.net/projects/mosquito/) - Multi-Cursor WM (http://freshmeat.net/projects/multicursor-wm/ WEIRD) + MWM - novawm (http://novawm.sourceforge.net/ No latest 2002 alpha) - olvwm (deb) - olwm (deb) - openbox - orion (http://orion.antidesktop.net/cgi-bin/wiki) - oroborus (http://www.oroborus.org/) - pawm (http://www.pleyades.net/pawm/) - pekwm - perlwm (http://freshmeat.net/projects/perlwm/ too old but a lot of people would be interested?) - phluid (http://freshmeat.net/projects/phluid/ - probably dead) - piewm - PLWM, PointLess WM (http://plwm.sourceforge.net/) - Puppet (WM for Escher Java lib http://escher.sourceforge.net/) + PWM - pywm - qlwm (http://qlwm.get.to/ based on Qt) - QuarkWM (http://sourceforge.net/projects/quarkwm) + QVWM (http://freshmeat.net/projects/qvwm/) + Ratpoison - ROX Desktop (http://rox.sourceforge.net/desktop/static.html) - sapphire (see aewm++) - sawfish - scwm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scwm) - sithwm + stumpwm - subtle (http://freshmeat.net/projects/subtle/) - swm (Solbourne http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swm, http://xwinman.org/archive/swm/) - swm (http://www.small-window-manager.de/) + Tab Window Manager - tinywm - toyd (http://www.toyd.org/ pre-alpha) - treewm + TrsWM (http://freshmeat.net/projects/trswm/) - tvtwm (http://freshmeat.net/projects/tvtwm/) - twindy (http://freshmeat.net/projects/twindy/) - twm - ude (http://freshmeat.net/projects/ude/ = uwm under aptitude) - uwm ("Universal" http://xwinman.org/uwm.tar.gz) - vtwm (deb http://freshmeat.net/projects/vtwm/) - w9wm - waimea - weewm - Whim (http://whim.linuxsys.net/site/0) - Whimsy (http://freshmeat.net/projects/whimsy/) - wimpwm (http://uebb.cs.tu-berlin.de/~magr/wimpwm/) + Windowlab + WindowMaker (deb) + WM2 - wmg (http://sourceforge.net/projects/wmg/) - wmi (predecessor to wmii) - wmii (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wmii) - WMX (with WM2) - wwm (Weird WM http://www.joerch.org/wwm/ dead) + xfce-wm or xfwm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xfwm) - XIGE (site dead) - XPDE - xswm (http://freshmeat.net/projects/xswm/ eXtreme Speed) (based on evil) - xwem (http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/xwem emacs) - yawm (yawm.org dead) - yeahwm (http://freshmeat.net/projects/yeahwm/) - Zeta desktop environment (http://freshmeat.net/projects/zde/) - zwm (http://freshmeat.net/projects/zwm/) -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 5 02:36:44 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 22:36:44 -0400 Subject: SDL on usb stick In-Reply-To: References: <4613F2A8.2030100@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20070404195353.GY3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070405023644.GZ3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 07:41:21PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I think that there is (after googling a bit). But it does not say > what the contents of the medium should look like: > http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/usb_msc_boot_1.0.pdf > > I always assumed that you organized a flash memory like a hard disk > partition OR like a partition. The first sector would be a Boot > Record and would contain a 512-byte boot block. I'm more confused now > that I've looked it up. Well sometimes it is treated like a big floppy, and other times like a hard disk. So sometimes you get partitions and sometimes you don't. Some bios's have settings for USB Zip, USB Floppy, or USH HD for boot, which affects which setup it will expect and boot from. > Of course bootable CD's don't look like that. They have a virtual > floppy image that the BIOS can boot from and make available to the > boot code etc. through INT 13. As a virtual floppy, it is > allowed to be 2.88M, even though few real floppies were that size. > (Apparently it could also emulate a hard drive). > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Torito_(CD-ROM_standard) Actually floppy emulation isn't used very often anymore. Now most things use el torito no emulation mode, where the whole iso filesystem can be read through the bios interface. This is what isolinux uses, as well as all windows installers for NT based windows versions. Most x86 linux distributions use isolinux for booting as far as I know. The floppy emulation is just so restrictive in space and very annoying to generate so hardly anyone uses it anymore. > Of course the PC world had to re-invent bootable CDs (1995). Sun had > differently bootable CDs quite a bit earlier. Well many unix systems could boot from CD, but they required that the CD drive support 512byte sectors, which some scsi cdrom drives did, but most do not. Most do only 2048 byte sectors. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 5 03:12:36 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 23:12:36 -0400 Subject: Reviewing Window Managers In-Reply-To: <1f13df280704041918h6d47e8adu2b2f6aadfe5e8e37-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280704041918h6d47e8adu2b2f6aadfe5e8e37@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990704042012x49163f4fx4789f8a09379aa4e@mail.gmail.com> Cool! On 4/4/07, Giles Orr wrote: > Because I'm mildly insane and definitely have too much time on my > hands, I've decided to update this paper and make it comprehensive - One thing which would be most helpful would be to give people a high-level overview of the project. This would include the status/state of the window manager. For example, "Anarchy" is nice and new and shiny, however it is .. "slim", to put it nicely, and the project is in an alpha state. I really like that you talk about documentation and the community. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 5 03:14:00 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 23:14:00 -0400 Subject: Reviewing Window Managers In-Reply-To: <1e55af990704042012x49163f4fx4789f8a09379aa4e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280704041918h6d47e8adu2b2f6aadfe5e8e37@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990704042012x49163f4fx4789f8a09379aa4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990704042014g7d871e52j48b2e0961b0cc5c2@mail.gmail.com> On 4/4/07, Sy Ali wrote: > One thing which would be most helpful would be to give people a > high-level overview of the project. Sorry, I mean to say that one page would have an overview for each window manager in a nice table. Perhaps you could use a javascript sort routine on the table to let people sort things by "footprint lightness" or "alpha/beta-ness", "quality of documentation", "size of community" etc.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 5 03:35:12 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:35:12 -0400 Subject: Reviewing Window Managers In-Reply-To: <1f13df280704041918h6d47e8adu2b2f6aadfe5e8e37-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280704041918h6d47e8adu2b2f6aadfe5e8e37@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46146E70.1070206@ve3syb.ca> Giles Orr wrote: > - olvwm (deb) > - olwm (deb) Why is there '(deb)' beside teh above two items? I have used one of them (I think it was olvwm although I might have also tried olwm) a long time ago for a while on a non-Debian machine. I was using it on an early version of RedHat (4.1 or 4.2) or possibly on a machine running Slackware. It was interesting to be running a machine at home with a GUI that looked just the GUI I saw on the monitor of the sys admin at work. The company was running several Sun OS based machines at the time. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 5 04:25:02 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 00:25:02 -0400 Subject: Reviewing Window Managers In-Reply-To: <1f13df280704041918h6d47e8adu2b2f6aadfe5e8e37-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280704041918h6d47e8adu2b2f6aadfe5e8e37@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070405002502.8f05c3d5.gstrom@teksavvy.com> There's a website that's been listing window managers for the past several years at the following location: http://xwinman.org/ -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 5 05:00:37 2007 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David C. Chipman) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 01:00:37 -0400 Subject: agpgart detection hangs FC5 boot process on IBM xSeries 300 In-Reply-To: <1f13df280704041655l1c199e90i24a0bc1a13a9c17d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280704041446jcf104a3hd242b213ef338b70@mail.gmail.com> <200704041945.21202.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1f13df280704041655l1c199e90i24a0bc1a13a9c17d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070405010037.101237f8@david.chipman> On Wed, 4 Apr 2007 19:55:40 -0400 "Giles Orr" wrote: > On 4/4/07, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > On Wednesday 04 April 2007, Giles Orr wrote: > > > My brother has an older IBM xSeries 300 (I think that's the > > > correct name) at work, and they're trying to run Fedora Core 5 on > > > it. I would have suggested another distro, but they need FC5 for > > > a specific application, or so they're told by their consultant. > > > The machine is a 1U server, Celeron 950MHz(?), dual IBM NICs, > > > 640Mb memory, S3 Savage Pro 4 video. The installation goes fine, > > > and everything works fine if you run the CD in rescue mode - the > > > NICs work, but everything is text mode. They aren't concerned > > > with X. > > [snip] > > > > Try booting using Knoppix or some other live distro to see what > > happens. > > Sorry, I should have mentioned: that was pretty much my first thought. > Knoppix hung completely, even in failsafe mode. I apologize that I > didn't write down the errors or where it hung ... but I did try it. > Hi Giles, Could you test Knoppix again, and get the errors written down? That would be a help. Later, and good luck! -David Chipman -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 5 12:22:12 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 08:22:12 -0400 Subject: Reviewing Window Managers In-Reply-To: <1f13df280704041918h6d47e8adu2b2f6aadfe5e8e37-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280704041918h6d47e8adu2b2f6aadfe5e8e37@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4614B1B4.4236.1FD4123@sciguy.vex.net> > Where I could use some help ... > > - history: I was a relatively early starter with Linux (1994) but I > think there are people on this list who were using Unix 20 years prior > to that. Feel free to take a look at > http://www.gilesorr.com/papers/otherwm2007/images/owm.png in all its > ludicrous glory and tell me what I've missed. It's an attempt to > document influence between WMs. It's also big and unwieldy. > > - tracking down WMs I've missed: please look at the following list and > see if any WMs you know are missing. Check Sourceforge again. Golem does not appear to be dead. Paul King > > - 3dwm (.org domain for sale) > - 5Dwm (http://5dwm.org/home.html) > + 9wm / w9wm > + aewm > + AEWM++ aka Sapphire (deb+"goodies") (http://freshmeat.net/projects/sapphire/) > - ahwm (http://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~ahiorean/ahwm/ latest 2002) > - amaterus (http://www.taiyaki.org/amaterus/index.en.html but source > has vanished) > - amiwm (deb) > - anarchy (http://proteus.freeshell.org/anarchy/) > - B4Step (http://b4step.free.fr/) > - BadWM (http://badwm.sourceforge.net/ "not actively maintained") > - beryl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryl_%28window_manager%29) > + Blackbox > - blwm (http://directory.fsf.org/blwm.html Portugese) > - clementine (http://freshmeat.net/projects/clementine/) > - clfswm (http://freshmeat.net/projects/clfswm/) > - compiz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compiz) > + CTWM > - cwm (http://monkey.org/~marius/pages/?page=cwm) > - dwm > - Eclipse (http://common-lisp.net/project/eclipse/) > - ede (http://ede.sourceforge.net/) > + Enlightenment > - epiwm (http://www.nongnu.org/epiwm/ latest 2001) > - EvilPoison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EvilPoison) > + EvilWM > - expocity (http://www.pycage.de/#expocity - mixed metacity+expose) > - failsafewm (http://freshmeat.net/projects/failsafewm/) > - Firebox (http://freshmeat.net/projects/firebox/) > + Fluxbox > + FLWM > - FOX WM (http://freshmeat.net/projects/fxwm/) > - fpcbol (http://sourceforge.net/projects/fpcbol but is it a WM?) > - Framer (needs very outdated Eiffel) > - fvwm > + FVWM2 > - fvwm95 > - fvwm-crystal (http://freshmeat.net/projects/fvwm-crystal/) > + Golem (http://freshmeat.net/projects/golem/) > - gwm > - GwML (site dead) > + HackedBox > - HaZe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HaZe) > + Heliwm (http://www.cc.rim.or.jp/~hok/heliwm/) > + Ice WM > - Integrity (http://integrity.sourceforge.net/) > - Interface WM (http://freshmeat.net/projects/interfacewm/) > + Ion > - JD4X http://jdx.sourceforge.net/ > - JWM (Joe's Window Manager) > - Kahakai > - Karmen (http://freshmeat.net/projects/karmen/) > - kwin (KDE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KWin) > - larswm (deb) > - lwm (deb http://freshmeat.net/projects/lwm/) > - Luminocity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminocity) > - maewm > - Manix (http://freshmeat.net/projects/manix-de/) > + Matchbox > - mavosxwm (http://mavosxwm.sourceforge.net/ dead) > + Metacity > - Metisse (http://insitu.lri.fr/metisse/) > - miwm (http://miwm.sourceforge.net/basic.php) > - mlvwm (http://www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~y-miyata/mlvwm.html Apple clone, RIP 2000) > - mosquito WM (http://freshmeat.net/projects/mosquito/) - Multi-Cursor WM > (http://freshmeat.net/projects/multicursor-wm/ WEIRD) + MWM - novawm > (http://novawm.sourceforge.net/ No latest 2002 alpha) - olvwm (deb) - olwm (deb) > - openbox - orion (http://orion.antidesktop.net/cgi-bin/wiki) - oroborus > (http://www.oroborus.org/) - pawm (http://www.pleyades.net/pawm/) - pekwm - > perlwm (http://freshmeat.net/projects/perlwm/ too old but a lot of people would > be interested?) - phluid (http://freshmeat.net/projects/phluid/ - probably dead) > - piewm - PLWM, PointLess WM (http://plwm.sourceforge.net/) - Puppet (WM for > Escher Java lib http://escher.sourceforge.net/) + PWM - pywm - qlwm > (http://qlwm.get.to/ based on Qt) - QuarkWM > (http://sourceforge.net/projects/quarkwm) + QVWM > (http://freshmeat.net/projects/qvwm/) + Ratpoison - ROX Desktop > (http://rox.sourceforge.net/desktop/static.html) - sapphire (see aewm++) - > sawfish - scwm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scwm) - sithwm + stumpwm - subtle > (http://freshmeat.net/projects/subtle/) - swm (Solbourne > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swm, http://xwinman.org/archive/swm/) - swm > (http://www.small-window-manager.de/) + Tab Window Manager - tinywm - toyd > (http://www.toyd.org/ pre-alpha) - treewm + TrsWM > (http://freshmeat.net/projects/trswm/) - tvtwm > (http://freshmeat.net/projects/tvtwm/) - twindy > (http://freshmeat.net/projects/twindy/) - twm - ude > (http://freshmeat.net/projects/ude/ = uwm under aptitude) - uwm ("Universal" > http://xwinman.org/uwm.tar.gz) - vtwm (deb http://freshmeat.net/projects/vtwm/) > - w9wm - waimea - weewm - Whim (http://whim.linuxsys.net/site/0) - Whimsy > (http://freshmeat.net/projects/whimsy/) - wimpwm > (http://uebb.cs.tu-berlin.de/~magr/wimpwm/) + Windowlab + WindowMaker (deb) + > WM2 - wmg (http://sourceforge.net/projects/wmg/) - wmi (predecessor to wmii) - > wmii (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wmii) - WMX (with WM2) - wwm (Weird WM > http://www.joerch.org/wwm/ dead) + xfce-wm or xfwm > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xfwm) - XIGE (site dead) - XPDE - xswm > (http://freshmeat.net/projects/xswm/ eXtreme Speed) (based on evil) - xwem > (http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/xwem emacs) - yawm (yawm.org dead) - yeahwm > (http://freshmeat.net/projects/yeahwm/) - Zeta desktop environment > (http://freshmeat.net/projects/zde/) - zwm (http://freshmeat.net/projects/zwm/) > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 5 13:52:35 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 09:52:35 -0400 Subject: Search Engine Optimization workshop @ linuxcaffe Message-ID: Bob Mutch, of SEO Company, will be giving a workshop on how you, yes YOU, can generate more traffic on your website(s) by using some simple search optimization techniques. for event details, go; http://linuxcaffe.ca/node/22023 SEO Company outline here; http://linuxcaffe.ca/node/22029 and website here; http://www.seocompany.ca/ The workshop will be this Saturday, from 5pm-7pm. Seating is limited to the first 20 to show up, with the next ten standing and everyone else standing outside grumbling about how cruelly cold it is, for April. and hoping their pals inside are taking excellent notes. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 5 14:46:45 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:46:45 -0400 Subject: Fwd:Reviewing Window Managers In-Reply-To: <1f13df280704050742y474054bdia154edec6300799a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280704041918h6d47e8adu2b2f6aadfe5e8e37@mail.gmail.com> <4614B1B4.4236.1FD4123@sciguy.vex.net> <1f13df280704050742y474054bdia154edec6300799a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280704050746p2fd1937ft3d3f5bff5618b64d@mail.gmail.com> To answer a bunch of questions at once ... On 4/4/07, Sy Ali wrote: > > One thing which would be most helpful would be to give people a > > high-level overview of the project. > > Sorry, I mean to say that one page would have an overview for each > window manager in a nice table. > > Perhaps you could use a javascript sort routine on the table to let > people sort things by "footprint lightness" or "alpha/beta-ness", > "quality of documentation", "size of community" etc.. I think the table idea is an excellent one, but I'm writing the paper in DocBook format which doesn't support sorting - although it will definitely do tables. I could do an external HTML table, but the truth is my JS skills just aren't up to that. If I do the table (it's a question of time - I'd like to) I would also include the language it's written in, which would interest a lot of people as well. On 4/4/07, Kevin Cozens wrote: > > - olvwm (deb) > > - olwm (deb) > > Why is there '(deb)' beside teh above two items? The (deb) marker by the WM name was just an indicator that I can fetch that particular WM through Debian's package management system. It's an artifact of my own notes that I should have removed from the list. On 4/5/07, Glen Strom wrote: > There's a website that's been listing window managers for the > past several years at the following location: > > http://xwinman.org/ Thanks for the URL - I've been using them heavily for years. :-) I think I've got all the WMs they list. On 4/5/07, Paul King wrote: > Check Sourceforge again. Golem does not appear to be dead. I'm not sure a hiatus of four years followed by a beta code release with promises of renewed vitality and another year of silence constitutes a return from death ... The name "golem" may be appropriate. I had high hopes for that one too. Sorry, I see it a lot with WMs - coders with the best of intentions who just can't quite find the time to update the project. Of course, my document may itself go that way, only time will tell. Nevertheless it does fall within my cutoff date (Jan. 2005) so I'll review it. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 5 15:48:14 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 11:48:14 -0400 Subject: Reviewing Window Managers In-Reply-To: <1f13df280704041918h6d47e8adu2b2f6aadfe5e8e37-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280704041918h6d47e8adu2b2f6aadfe5e8e37@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 4/4/07, Giles Orr wrote: > > [..] > Where I could use some help ... > > - history: I was a relatively early starter with Linux (1994) but I > think there are people on this list who were using Unix 20 years prior > to that. Feel free to take a look at > http://www.gilesorr.com/papers/otherwm2007/images/owm.png in all its > ludicrous glory and tell me what I've missed. It's an attempt to > document influence between WMs. It's also big and unwieldy. > > - tracking down WMs I've missed: please look at the following list and > see if any WMs you know are missing. > [..] > - wimpwm (http://uebb.cs.tu-berlin.de/~magr/wimpwm/) > + Windowlab > + WindowMaker (deb) http://www.windowmaker.info/ WindowMaker is the only one I use .. I just don't have the patience for Gnome or KDE. In WindowMaker, there's no menu unless you ask for it; I can switch between virtual desktops with a keystroke or a mouse click (but the keystroke is about 100 times more likely) and it's very fast. But I concede that this is a personal choice .. I like a clean interface that's a simple as possible. That's probably why I love Google's main page and dislike the craziness of most media web sites -- too many different sized boxes, all that flashing, moving, and changing colours going on in the ads and competing for my attention. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 5 17:08:04 2007 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 13:08:04 -0400 Subject: agpgart detection hangs FC5 boot process on IBM xSeries 300 In-Reply-To: <20070405010037.101237f8-lQMCrfjKGrJ3Ex1Y5TzZUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280704041446jcf104a3hd242b213ef338b70@mail.gmail.com> <200704041945.21202.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <1f13df280704041655l1c199e90i24a0bc1a13a9c17d@mail.gmail.com> <20070405010037.101237f8@david.chipman> Message-ID: <46152CF4.4050206@gmail.com> Not sure about the S3 Savage Pro, but most other S3 video, integrated or not, I disabled and installed a video card with more oomph. If you run it in text mode, your okay with the S3. I would run that computer as a server in text mode. I would run that GUI application on another computer with FC5 as needed. I cannot see why one would run an xSeries server in GUI/workstation mode. Then possibly having to disable the integrated and install another video card. /tm David C. Chipman wrote: > On Wed, 4 Apr 2007 19:55:40 -0400 > "Giles Orr" wrote: > > >> On 4/4/07, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >> >>> On Wednesday 04 April 2007, Giles Orr wrote: >>> >>>> My brother has an older IBM xSeries 300 (I think that's the >>>> correct name) at work, and they're trying to run Fedora Core 5 on >>>> it. I would have suggested another distro, but they need FC5 for >>>> a specific application, or so they're told by their consultant. >>>> The machine is a 1U server, Celeron 950MHz(?), dual IBM NICs, >>>> 640Mb memory, S3 Savage Pro 4 video. The installation goes fine, >>>> and everything works fine if you run the CD in rescue mode - the >>>> NICs work, but everything is text mode. They aren't concerned >>>> with X. >>>> >>> [snip] >>> >>> Try booting using Knoppix or some other live distro to see what >>> happens. >>> >> Sorry, I should have mentioned: that was pretty much my first thought. >> Knoppix hung completely, even in failsafe mode. I apologize that I >> didn't write down the errors or where it hung ... but I did try it. >> >> > Hi Giles, > > Could you test Knoppix again, and get the errors written down? That > would be a help. Later, and good luck! > > -David Chipman > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 5 20:36:04 2007 From: jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 16:36:04 -0400 Subject: SDL on usb stick In-Reply-To: <20070405023644.GZ3509-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4613F2A8.2030100@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20070404195353.GY3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070405023644.GZ3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <46155DB4.7000508@totaltravelmarketing.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 07:41:21PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >> I think that there is (after googling a bit). But it does not say >> what the contents of the medium should look like: >> http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/usb_msc_boot_1.0.pdf >> >> I always assumed that you organized a flash memory like a hard disk >> partition OR like a partition. The first sector would be a Boot >> Record and would contain a 512-byte boot block. I'm more confused now >> that I've looked it up. >> > > Well sometimes it is treated like a big floppy, and other times like a > hard disk. So sometimes you get partitions and sometimes you don't. > Some bios's have settings for USB Zip, USB Floppy, or USH HD for boot, > which affects which setup it will expect and boot from. > > >> Of course bootable CD's don't look like that. They have a virtual >> floppy image that the BIOS can boot from and make available to the >> boot code etc. through INT 13. As a virtual floppy, it is >> allowed to be 2.88M, even though few real floppies were that size. >> (Apparently it could also emulate a hard drive). >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Torito_(CD-ROM_standard) >> > > Actually floppy emulation isn't used very often anymore. Now most > things use el torito no emulation mode, where the whole iso filesystem > can be read through the bios interface. This is what isolinux uses, as > well as all windows installers for NT based windows versions. Most x86 > linux distributions use isolinux for booting as far as I know. The > floppy emulation is just so restrictive in space and very annoying to > generate so hardly anyone uses it anymore. > > >> Of course the PC world had to re-invent bootable CDs (1995). Sun had >> differently bootable CDs quite a bit earlier. >> > > Well many unix systems could boot from CD, but they required that the CD > drive support 512byte sectors, which some scsi cdrom drives did, but > most do not. Most do only 2048 byte sectors. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > Hi Everybody Kevin's plan did the job, I appreciate all of your responses. Thanks for your time and help Happy Easter!! Jose -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 6 21:16:01 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 17:16:01 -0400 Subject: CityTV story about Dell and pre-installed linux, from linuxcaffe Message-ID: The CityTV WebNation news crews just left after taping a story about how Dell is set to offer linux as optional OS. Expect clips of my own shaggy self blathering about linux, Dell and Microsoft. The story should be on CityTV tonight at 6pm, 11pm, tomorrow and all weekend on CP24. Amber (the host) is considering doing a regular report from linuxcaffe, so get your hair cut, practice your best Expert Geek look, in the mirror, and come on down. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 6 21:38:57 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 17:38:57 -0400 Subject: CityTV story about Dell and pre-installed linux, from linuxcaffe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4616BDF1.6090508@rogers.com> David J Patrick wrote: > The CityTV WebNation news crews just left after taping a story about > how Dell is set to offer linux as optional OS. Expect clips of my own > shaggy self blathering about linux, Dell and Microsoft. The story > should be on CityTV tonight at 6pm, 11pm, tomorrow and all weekend on > CP24. > Amber (the host) is considering doing a regular report from > linuxcaffe, so get your hair cut, practice your best Expert Geek look, > in the mirror, and come on down. > djp > And please, PLEASE wear a clean shirt protector!!! ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 6 23:21:17 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 19:21:17 -0400 Subject: Yet Another reason to use linux... In-Reply-To: <20070403225128.GT3509-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070321044701.GB1973@waltdnes.org> <200704031728.56512.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20070403225128.GT3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200704061921.17699.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Tuesday 03 April 2007, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > If you use the kde tools you will get the resource requirements of > KDE. The window manager part is actually not a big deal resource > wise, the kde subsystem that all the tools use for communications > is. So pretty much any kde tool will cause a resource problem. Save for Kopete, which seems to have its share of problems and which I only use occasionally for IM, none of the other KDE/Qt apps I use, Kate, kdesvn, Quanta, KMail, digikam, kompare, Qt Designer, Eric, KDevelop, Konqueror, kmymoney, konsole, etc. are objectionable in terms of resource utilization. The biggest culprits in runaway memory useage seems to be OpenOffice, GIMP, and Firefox, especially if the Flash plug-in is invoked. You'll note none of those are Qt or KDE applications. When Firefox goes crazy, it sets Xorg off on a bender. I'm not going to stop using GUI web browsers or the Flash plug-in because both are integral to what I need to do so trying to convince me of the Zen of lynx, links, vim, or blocking Flash and turning off JavaScript is pointless. > As for apt versus rpm, well that's not really the thing that makes > debian better. It's a nifty tool, it managed the downloads and > upgrades for you and resolving the dependancies, something which > took years for rpm based systems to gain. That is just folklore and Debian snobbery. Debian is no better at managing dependencies on removal of packages than say, Mandriva, which has the best suite of tools around RPM. Mandriva's urpmi and the Smart package manager that is used on various distros is at least as good, if not better, at managing dependencies as apt. If you compare bare rpm to apt, of course rpm is going to look worse. Urpmie compared to apt is a more valid comparison. Yum, unfortunately, stinks compared to either. It may be capable but it's so slow as to be barely useable. > The real reason it is > better is that it's packages actually have accurate dependancy > information, and are put together consistently and in a way that > everything can work together and get along. It doesn't matter if > your packaging tools work well if the packages they are managing > are crap. More folklore and Debian snobbery. Red Hat Enterprise Linux and Mandriva are perfectly coherent and useable distros. If you don't want to spring for RHEL, you can use CentOS. If you start installing packages from random repositories packaged by inexperienced or clueless people, all distros, including the vaunted Debian, can have problems. > I just upgraded my 486 which I installed Debian 2.1 on in 1999. It > is now upgrading to 4.0 (ok so I am doing it slightly early), and > other than having to purge a couple of ancient packages for > netscape 4.77 I forgot I had installed (which were getting in the > way of upgrading to X.org it told me), the upgrade has gone just > fine (the power failure in the middle was a bit inconvinient, but > the upgrade system doesn't mind it would seem.) It has gone > through 2.1, 2.2, 3.0, 3.1 and now 4.0. Gotta love quality > packaging of software, by people that do it just because they care, > and hence release when it is ready and not a moment before. That is not a typical scenario even in the Debian world. Oh sure, many people claim this and I'm sure some of them even manage to do it as easily as they claim but I'll bet if you looked closely, you would find that a) it wasn't quite as easy as they claimed it to be, and b) they limited their choice of packages to well-known, widely-used, and official packages, not some "weird" packages from unofficial repositories. In other words, they made compromises that many people aren't willing to make. The ability to do rolling upgrades without reinstallation is touted as a virtue by Debian folks but I dispute it's value. I'd much rather have the means of (re)installing quickly onto bare metal (or a virtual machine) and be able to carry customizations forward with minimal fuss. If you want to convince someone of the merits of Debian, I think a greater win is debootstrap. I can create a new Debian instance on our Xen hosting infrastructure in a matter of minutes. To me, that is worth much more than being able to upgrade on an ongoing basis. The former, I can script and repeat. Systems that are continuously upgraded without reinstallation tend to accumulate barnacles no matter how careful one is and when they go down, they may not be as easy to replicate as one that was installed fresh a few months ago. Rolling upgrades are more prone to breakage and are more difficult to repeat whereas fresh installs are less prone to breakage and are more repeatable. > > Empirical testing of fluxbox, XFce, and KDE on my laptop > > contradicts the folklore of XFce being a lightweight alternative > > to KDE or Gnome. Speaking of Gnome, I couldn't be bothered > > testing it because I knew I'd never use it and would have to > > remove all the Gnome junk after installing it just for testing > > anyway. Besides, in previous tests of Gnome within the last > > couple of years, Gnome's memory footprint was indeed lower than > > KDE's but it wasn't enough to compensate for its ugly UI and its > > poor attention to usability. If I have to put up with that, I'll > > go the whole way and just use something like fluxbox. > > I actually find the current version of gnome much better than they > were in the past, and have actually ditched kde in favour of it. > Now using a different window manager is no help as long as you > continue using anything kde related. I develop apps using PyQt and PyKDE so I'm not likely to ditch KDE in favour of Gnome's sub-standard UI and Mono's promotion of Microsoft's agenda. To me, KDE isn't just the desktop manager. It is integral to my software development processes. As I outlined in my previous message, the resource utilization of the various desktop managers I tried weren't appreciably different enough to justify switching. The right solution to my problem of my formerly suitable but increasingly hard-to-tolerate laptop isn't going on a quixotic quest to find The Ultimate Desktop Manager/Windowing Manager that manages to supposedly run (more like crawl) on 486/66 machines but to upgrade to a modern machine. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 7 01:16:03 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 21:16:03 -0400 Subject: CityTV story about Dell and pre-installed linux, from linuxcaffe In-Reply-To: <170210.19197.qm-7EKNVtTItHqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <170210.19197.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4616F0D3.1040002@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > Funny thing, I think the only pocket protector I've > ever had was one from Icom (a well known, well > respected amateur radio equipment builder (yes, I own > two of their radios and my amateur radio licence is > VE3ZAA)). Hummm ... how many groups are out there with > a "geek" image issue? > > - Linux, Unix, etc. computer users > - Amateur radio operators > - Model railroad fans? > > Who else? > > I'm VE3ZU. Been licensed for 35 years. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 7 01:12:05 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 21:12:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CityTV story about Dell and pre-installed linux, from linuxcaffe In-Reply-To: <4616BDF1.6090508-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4616BDF1.6090508@rogers.com> Message-ID: <170210.19197.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- James Knott wrote: > David J Patrick wrote: > > The CityTV WebNation news crews just left after > taping a story about > > how Dell is set to offer linux as optional OS. > Expect clips of my own > > shaggy self blathering about linux, Dell and > Microsoft. The story > > should be on CityTV tonight at 6pm, 11pm, tomorrow > and all weekend on > > CP24. > > Amber (the host) is considering doing a regular > report from > > linuxcaffe, so get your hair cut, practice your > best Expert Geek look, > > in the mirror, and come on down. > > djp > > > And please, PLEASE wear a clean shirt protector!!! > ;-) Funny thing, I think the only pocket protector I've ever had was one from Icom (a well known, well respected amateur radio equipment builder (yes, I own two of their radios and my amateur radio licence is VE3ZAA)). Hummm ... how many groups are out there with a "geek" image issue? - Linux, Unix, etc. computer users - Amateur radio operators - Model railroad fans? Who else? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 7 02:00:10 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 22:00:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CityTV story about Dell and pre-installed linux, from linuxcaffe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Apr 2007, David J Patrick wrote: > The CityTV WebNation news crews just left after taping a story about > how Dell is set to offer linux as optional OS. Expect clips of my own > shaggy self blathering about linux, Dell and Microsoft. The story > should be on CityTV tonight at 6pm, 11pm, tomorrow and all weekend on > CP24. Excellent. > Amber (the host) is considering doing a regular report from Be sure to educate the world on open standards :) > linuxcaffe, so get your hair cut, practice your best Expert Geek look, > in the mirror, and come on down. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 7 02:55:31 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 22:55:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CityTV story about Dell and pre-installed linux, from linuxcaffe In-Reply-To: <4616F0D3.1040002-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4616F0D3.1040002@rogers.com> Message-ID: <981056.88101.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- James Knott wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > > Funny thing, I think the only pocket protector > I've > > ever had was one from Icom (a well known, well > > respected amateur radio equipment builder (yes, I > own > > two of their radios and my amateur radio licence > is > > VE3ZAA)). Hummm ... how many groups are out there > with > > a "geek" image issue? > > > > - Linux, Unix, etc. computer users > > - Amateur radio operators > > - Model railroad fans? > > > > Who else? > > > I'm VE3ZU. Been licensed for 35 years. Cool, as you have a 5 character VE3 series licence I would have automatically assumed you had held your licence for a while (I've held my licence since 1990). So, back to the question of people with a geekdom image problem. Accountants have a image problem of people tend to think that they are boring, but not geeky (noted as one who has an uncle and a cousin who are accountants ...). This past week I watched on DVD "The World's Fastest Indian" about a man who tweaked the @#$% out of an Indian brand motorcycle. Again the serious gear heads have image issues, but not one of geek... So, how do we put some distance between us and the geek label? Or is it even worth doing? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 7 03:53:15 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 23:53:15 -0400 Subject: CityTV story about Dell and pre-installed linux, from linuxcaffe In-Reply-To: <981056.88101.qm-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <981056.88101.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <461715AB.5080004@ve3syb.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: >> I'm VE3ZU. Been licensed for 35 years. > > Cool, as you have a 5 character VE3 series licence I > would have automatically assumed you had held your > licence for a while (I've held my licence since 1990). Not sure that is true anymore. I think there are some newer hams that have 2 letter suffix with a VA3 prefix. > This past week I watched on DVD "The World's Fastest > Indian" about a man who tweaked the @#$% out of an > Indian brand motorcycle. I saw that movie a while ago when it came out on the movie network. Good movie. Amazing to hear the original top speed of the bike was about 50mph. BTW, I've been interested in ham radio for a little over 30 years. Had my ticket for about the last 15 or so. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 7 04:02:09 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 00:02:09 -0400 Subject: CityTV story about Dell and pre-installed linux, from linuxcaffe In-Reply-To: <981056.88101.qm-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <981056.88101.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <461717C1.8010005@telly.org> > So, how do we put some distance between us and the > geek label? Or is it even worth doing? > I think that the answers to both questions are personal rather than group decisions. In many cases they're also complex questions. Arguably, being considered a geek can be considered a better stereotype than being boring. Being involved in computers, in itself, is insufficient, for geekdom. That usually goes along with (IMO): - difficulty in avoiding use of logic to solve illogical (ie, emotional or political) problems - more than a passing interest in science fiction - knowing computer languages as well as (or better than!) spoken ones - preferring email or IM communications over face-to-face - attempts to be helpful that are interpreted as being a "know-it-all" - a POV that technology is an end to itself rather than the source of tools to do "other" things - dependecny on technology as a source of recreation as well as income Having said all this, being seen as a geek -- in itself -- isn't as negative as it used to be. The richest person in the world, widely admired, is generally considered to be one (even if hardcore geeks would disagree). Movies such as Independence Day have elevated tech-heads to hero status, on par with the muscle-bounds. I personally liked the role Seth Green played in the (newer) Italian Job. Negative examples of geeks, such as Neil Goldman on Family Guy, concentrate on anti-social mannerisms more than tech as the basis for the ridicule. The inference often made is that tech-heads relate to inanimate objects better than they do to real people, which is occasionally still accurate. But, as was mentioned about the bike-modding gear-head, that doesn't just apply to computer folks. :-P It also doesn't appear to help that, at a time when there are more women in many traditionally male-dominated fields, the gender gap in IT is actually growing: http://www.cioinsight.com/article2/0,1540,2110748,00.asp?kc=CMCIOEMNL040307EP23 This may ironically mean that being involved in IT may be more of a macho thing than ever. :-) - Evan PS: My favourite "you might be a geek if..." list is at http://www.julen.net/ephemera/pub/Geek.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 7 04:15:17 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 00:15:17 -0400 Subject: CityTV story about Dell and pre-installed linux, from linuxcaffe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 06/04/07, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Fri, 6 Apr 2007, David J Patrick wrote: > > > Amber (the host) is considering doing a regular report from > > Be sure to educate the world on open standards :) the WebNation folk are aware of open standards, if not actually using them, and I'll certainly keep ringing that bell. by the way, did you notice how quicky and completely this thread want OT ? astounding, really, should we start something with a "Do I look Geeky in this ?; was Dell linux offering makes national Canadian newscasts" subject line ? so, in any event, the shoot went splendidly, they'll be back, and IMHO think the final clip is short and kinda punchy. It's at http://www.citynews.ca/international/day/4-6-2007_676.aspx djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 7 05:17:32 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 01:17:32 -0400 Subject: CityTV story about Dell and pre-installed linux, from linuxcaffe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e55af990704062217w1a8e113at49e24764bfc92649@mail.gmail.com> On 4/7/07, David J Patrick wrote: > by the way, did you notice how quicky and completely this thread want OT ? > astounding, really, The quality of a thread can be determined by how far it goes off course while holding everyone's attention. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 7 05:20:01 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 01:20:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Projector for April Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Mar 2007, David J Patrick wrote: > On 13/03/07, Robert Brockway wrote: >> Hi all. Is anyone able to provide a project for the meeting on April 10? > > linuxcaffes 2000 lumens at your service. Ok, after our "mine is more lumenous than yours" discussion last month we decided that LinuxCaffe was bringing the projector for the April 10th meeting... http://gtalug.org/wiki/Meetings:2007-04 Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 7 06:35:44 2007 From: brandon-77Z/iqU1yLlrovVCs/uTlw at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 02:35:44 -0400 Subject: CityTV story about Dell and pre-installed linux, from linuxcaffe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070407063544.GB618@pyBook.no-domain-set.bellcanada> Robert Brockway said: > On Fri, 6 Apr 2007, David J Patrick wrote: > > >The CityTV WebNation news crews just left after taping a story about > >how Dell is set to offer linux as optional OS. Expect clips of my own > >shaggy self blathering about linux, Dell and Microsoft. The story > >should be on CityTV tonight at 6pm, 11pm, tomorrow and all weekend on > >CP24. > > Excellent. > > >Amber (the host) is considering doing a regular report from > > Be sure to educate the world on open standards :) > > >linuxcaffe, so get your hair cut, practice your best Expert Geek look, > >in the mirror, and come on down. > > Rob > She's really geeky and should do a good job of not missing the point. She's not "I used to program a PDP while walking through 10-feet of snow uphill both ways" geeky, but she understands technology and the issues. http://www.twit.tv/ITN (net at nite podcast she co-hosts) http://ambermac.typepad.com/ (her blog) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 7 12:00:21 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 08:00:21 -0400 Subject: CityTV story about Dell and pre-installed linux, from linuxcaffe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <461787D5.4050807@rogers.com> David J Patrick wrote: > On 06/04/07, Robert Brockway wrote: >> On Fri, 6 Apr 2007, David J Patrick wrote: >> >> > Amber (the host) is considering doing a regular report from >> >> Be sure to educate the world on open standards :) > > the WebNation folk are aware of open standards, if not actually using > them, and I'll certainly keep ringing that bell. I watched the new at 6:00 PM, but didn't see it. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 7 14:51:36 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 10:51:36 -0400 Subject: CityTV story about Dell and pre-installed linux, from linuxcaffe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4/6/07, David J Patrick wrote: > > The CityTV WebNation news crews just left after taping a story about > how Dell is set to offer linux as optional OS. Expect clips of my own > shaggy self blathering about linux, Dell and Microsoft. The story > should be on CityTV tonight at 6pm, 11pm, tomorrow and all weekend on > CP24. I was contentedly reading the paper at the dining room table this morning when my wife called me over to the TV where she had CP24 going -- my first thought was, "Hey, that's David Patrick!", confirmed a moment later by an outside show of linuxcaffe.ca. Great PR for your business and also for Linux. Amber (the host) is considering doing a regular report from > linuxcaffe, so get your hair cut, practice your best Expert Geek look, > in the mirror, and come on down. I dunno -- I have so little hair now, most people I see on a daily basis wouldn't notice a hair cut. Maybe if I trimmed my goatee. Linux has been taken up very quickly by geeks (OK, we're geeks -- deal) for a number of reasons: [] It's not Microsoft (and there are multiple reasons for this choice alone), [] It comes with the source code, [] It's community based, [] It's free, and [] If you're keen, you can add a feature to a program you use and pass it along However, doing such a radical thing as leaving the Microsoft mother ship can be quite a leap of faith -- support is reduced from 'Help is just a phone call away' to reading the documentation (gasp!), mailing lists, web searches and IRC. Getting Linux to the desktop is a challenge, but every year we get a little closer. My first encounter with SuSE 6.2 and YaST was brutal, and I didn't try Linux again for a few years. Now, having worked with Linux for close to ten years, I'm much moer comfortable with it -- and Linux has come a long way. There's also quite a crop of high school and university students who are quite content to use Linux, as well as a plentiful supply of recycled white boxes (old computers) that work just fine with Linux, while being border-line for Windows XP and useless for Vista. Microsoft is going to be around for a while, but Linux is going to continue to grab market share. And that's a very cool thing. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 7 15:35:32 2007 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 11:35:32 -0400 Subject: CityTV story about Dell and pre-installed linux, from linuxcaffe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4617BA44.7060907@the-wire.com> Alex Beamish wrote: > Linux has been taken up very quickly by geeks (OK, we're geeks -- deal) for > a number of reasons: > > [] It's not Microsoft (and there are multiple reasons for this choice > alone), > [] It comes with the source code, > [] It's community based, > [] It's free, and > [] If you're keen, you can add a feature to a program you use and pass it > along [] It's real software, but you can still afford it. I stopped playing with Linux when some people approached me for a bid for a web application. I had my toys already, and I cooked up a LAPP prototype in a week, showed it, and got accepted. After that, there was money around, and we could pay a couple of thousand for M$ tolls -- customer's insistence -- but without that available Linux, Apache, Postgres there would have been no project. (Left out Python, not because there's anything wrong with it, but because there were/are easily available languages around; Python was one of them.) This point is a lot like "it's free", but I want to stress "it's *real*". The demo ran on production-quality code. The final site could have run on the exact same software, had the client wanted. > [ ... ] > Getting Linux to the desktop is a challenge, but every year we get a little > closer. My first encounter with SuSE 6.2 and YaST was brutal, and I didn't > try Linux again for a few years. Now, having worked with Linux for close to > ten years, I'm much moer comfortable with it -- and Linux has come a long > way. I just got a new desktop to support a new project, and Kubuntu simply slid on. After installing, I saw a desktop that's just as easy (IMHO) as the standard consumer system my mother uses. At some point some friend of mine is going to come to me one time too many with computer troubles, and come away running real software. Cheers, Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 7 17:42:55 2007 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 13:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CityTV story about Dell and pre-installed linux, from linuxcaffe In-Reply-To: <461787D5.4050807-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <461787D5.4050807@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1427.66.11.182.5.1175967775.squirrel@canuckster.org> > David J Patrick wrote: >> On 06/04/07, Robert Brockway wrote: >>> On Fri, 6 Apr 2007, David J Patrick wrote: >>> >>> > Amber (the host) is considering doing a regular report from >>> >>> Be sure to educate the world on open standards :) >> >> the WebNation folk are aware of open standards, if not actually using >> them, and I'll certainly keep ringing that bell. > > I watched the new at 6:00 PM, but didn't see it. > me too > -- > Use OpenOffice.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 7 18:49:42 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 14:49:42 -0400 Subject: CityTV story about Dell and pre-installed linux, from linuxcaffe In-Reply-To: <981056.88101.qm-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <4616F0D3.1040002@rogers.com> <981056.88101.qm@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070407184942.GA3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 10:55:31PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Cool, as you have a 5 character VE3 series licence I > would have automatically assumed you had held your > licence for a while (I've held my licence since 1990). > > So, back to the question of people with a geekdom > image problem. Accountants have a image problem of > people tend to think that they are boring, but not > geeky (noted as one who has an uncle and a cousin who > are accountants ...). > > This past week I watched on DVD "The World's Fastest > Indian" about a man who tweaked the @#$% out of an > Indian brand motorcycle. Again the serious gear heads > have image issues, but not one of geek... > > So, how do we put some distance between us and the > geek label? Or is it even worth doing? I think some of us are doing just fine. :) I think I am a computer geek. I have the specs of way too much hardware in my head (no idea why it sticks while lots of other thigns don't). I write software for a living, including the occational device driver. I don't wear jeans and t-shirts anymore (in university I did, but have since found out people seem to take you a lot more seriously if you dress reasonably business casual, as in a shirt and pants. Given I look younger than I am, anything to be taken seriously helps). I don't drink lots of caffeine (I used to, no I don't have any). I will talk about computer things, cars, and other technology until people tell me to shut up (usually my wife, unless she started up some topic of NP complete problems and proofs and such.) I am married to someone with a degree in Math, who has done multiple years of embedded systems programming, and is now working on a masters in computer science and probably a PhD as well. I think I must be doing something right. :) So I think I am a geek, but I don't think I necesarily fit the old image of one anymore. I also think after the burst of the big tech bubble, companies don't just hire all the tech people they can get, so they can afford to be a bit more picky about who they hire. The geeks can't just do whatever they want anymore. We have to at least try to fit in. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 7 18:44:10 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 14:44:10 -0400 Subject: CityTV story about Dell and pre-installed linux, from linuxcaffe In-Reply-To: <1427.66.11.182.5.1175967775.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <461787D5.4050807@rogers.com> <1427.66.11.182.5.1175967775.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <4617E67A.2070709@rogers.com> Jason Carson wrote: >> David J Patrick wrote: >> >>> On 06/04/07, Robert Brockway wrote: >>> >>>> On Fri, 6 Apr 2007, David J Patrick wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Amber (the host) is considering doing a regular report from >>>>> >>>> Be sure to educate the world on open standards :) >>>> >>> the WebNation folk are aware of open standards, if not actually using >>> them, and I'll certainly keep ringing that bell. >>> >> I watched the new at 6:00 PM, but didn't see it. >> >> > > me too > > Of course, the important question now is did anyone watch at 6 and see it? ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 7 19:09:49 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 15:09:49 -0400 Subject: Yet Another reason to use linux... In-Reply-To: <200704061921.17699.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070321044701.GB1973@waltdnes.org> <200704031728.56512.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20070403225128.GT3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200704061921.17699.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20070407190949.GB3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 07:21:17PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > More folklore and Debian snobbery. Red Hat Enterprise Linux and > Mandriva are perfectly coherent and useable distros. If you don't > want to spring for RHEL, you can use CentOS. If you start installing > packages from random repositories packaged by inexperienced or > clueless people, all distros, including the vaunted Debian, can have > problems. Certainly people that start installing things using 3rd party install scripts like the nvidia driver installer, and such, are just asking for trouble. If you fight the package management system by insisting you know better, you will get what you ask for, which is a fight. > That is not a typical scenario even in the Debian world. Oh sure, many > people claim this and I'm sure some of them even manage to do it as > easily as they claim but I'll bet if you looked closely, you would > find that a) it wasn't quite as easy as they claimed it to be, and b) > they limited their choice of packages to well-known, widely-used, and > official packages, not some "weird" packages from unofficial > repositories. In other words, they made compromises that many people > aren't willing to make. Actually the machine has been through my use at university installing all sorts of odd packages for languages I needed for a course, and I do use packages from unofficial package archives (I wanted mplayer and such). Some unofficial archives are a disaster. Many are very good. Sometimes I have had to fix something, but it has been rare. > The ability to do rolling upgrades without reinstallation is touted as > a virtue by Debian folks but I dispute it's value. I'd much rather > have the means of (re)installing quickly onto bare metal (or a > virtual machine) and be able to carry customizations forward with > minimal fuss. If you want to convince someone of the merits of > Debian, I think a greater win is debootstrap. I can create a new > Debian instance on our Xen hosting infrastructure in a matter of > minutes. To me, that is worth much more than being able to upgrade on > an ongoing basis. The former, I can script and repeat. Systems that > are continuously upgraded without reinstallation tend to accumulate > barnacles no matter how careful one is and when they go down, they > may not be as easy to replicate as one that was installed fresh a few > months ago. Rolling upgrades are more prone to breakage and are more > difficult to repeat whereas fresh installs are less prone to breakage > and are more repeatable. Deootstrap is great. But still I like being able to keep my system the way it is an upgrade in place. I hate starting over, since I have never seen anyone have a complete backup of all their favourite settings to restore on a new system to instantly have it the way they want it. Some are close. Most of my machines now run raid1, since I hate having to start over due to a disk failure (even as rare as they are). I want to use my system, not reinstall it. I think microsoft, and to some extent a lot of the linux distriutions have given upgrades a bad reputation. > I develop apps using PyQt and PyKDE so I'm not likely to ditch KDE in > favour of Gnome's sub-standard UI and Mono's promotion of Microsoft's > agenda. To me, KDE isn't just the desktop manager. It is integral to > my software development processes. As I outlined in my previous > message, the resource utilization of the various desktop managers I > tried weren't appreciably different enough to justify switching. The > right solution to my problem of my formerly suitable but increasingly > hard-to-tolerate laptop isn't going on a quixotic quest to find The > Ultimate Desktop Manager/Windowing Manager that manages to supposedly > run (more like crawl) on 486/66 machines but to upgrade to a modern > machine. Well i don't think X was ever great on a 486. I still used it whenever I needed to run a graphical browser at university (I guess at the time if would have been navigator 4.77 most of the time). I certainly don't think kde should be ditched, since it does keep getting better. And having to major desktops inventing features for each other to copy seems to be doing a great job. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 7 21:07:51 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 17:07:51 -0400 Subject: CityTV story about Dell and pre-installed linux, from linuxcaffe In-Reply-To: <461787D5.4050807-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <461787D5.4050807@rogers.com> Message-ID: <46180827.6020507@ve3syb.ca> James Knott wrote: > I watched the new at 6:00 PM, but didn't see it. I missed the 6pm news so I watched City at 11pm. I didn't see the news item. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 8 01:00:04 2007 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 21:00:04 -0400 Subject: Linux Computer Message-ID: Hello everyone, I hope the long weekend is treating you well. In lieu of doing my own research or as part of that research, I thought I would toss out a general question. I'm putting together a desktop computer for my parents. They need to run linux and they want to spend around $1200. What sort of hardware can I get that will be fully compatible with mandriva? They use the computer mainly as a window onto the internet and email, but from time to time, they also edit and print digital photos as well with the gimp. I'd like to go with a dual core amd athlon 64 with 2GB of ram and maybe a western digital sata hard drive. I'm not sure what video card to get, but I'd like one with dvi out and nvidia chipset. Don't need to worry about ethernet card as we have an old dlink which works well. Sound card is not all that important; they're used to a sb live. They also want a flatscreen lcd monitor, but this does not need to be included in the $1200, although if it could be, that would be great. Any and all advice is welcome! Cheers, Randy -- Oscar Developer McMaster University 75 Frid Street, Hamilton, ON 905 525 9140 x27735 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 8 01:40:05 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 21:40:05 -0400 Subject: Linux Computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070408014005.GC3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Apr 07, 2007 at 09:00:04PM -0400, Randy Jonasz wrote: > I hope the long weekend is treating you well. In lieu of doing my own > research or as part of that research, I thought I would toss out a > general question. I'm putting together a desktop computer for my > parents. They need to run linux and they want to spend around $1200. > What sort of hardware can I get that will be fully compatible with > mandriva? They use the computer mainly as a window onto the internet > and email, but from time to time, they also edit and print digital > photos as well with the gimp. > > I'd like to go with a dual core amd athlon 64 with 2GB of ram and > maybe a western digital sata hard drive. I'm not sure what video card > to get, but I'd like one with dvi out and nvidia chipset. Don't need > to worry about ethernet card as we have an old dlink which works well. > Sound card is not all that important; they're used to a sb live. > They also want a flatscreen lcd monitor, but this does not need to be > included in the $1200, although if it could be, that would be great. > > Any and all advice is welcome! Well I have no clue what mandriva supports (I have never liked anything about mandrake/mandriva). I do know that in my experience I have had good luck with nvidia chipsets, usually via chipsets, and intel chipsets. I highly recommend avoiding ati chipsets and sis. Ethernet is almost always onboard now so not really much of an issue, except a few companies put very strange network chips onboard with terrible support. The most recent machine I built just before xmas for my sister, which I did not run linux on, but am quite sure would work, had this: Asus P5B Core 2 Duo E6400 2x512MB OCZ DDR2 PC6400 ram XFX nvidia 7600GT 2xWD1600JS 160GB HDs (running raid1). SilverStone TJ04B-W case SilverStone 400W power supply Pioneer DVR-111 PATA dvd writer I think that ended up at around $1200 or so. Since it has an intel chipset ethernet and sata and all that should pretty much just work with any distribution with a recent 2.6 kernel, and of course the video will work with the nvidia drivers for sure. The 7600GT supports a single link and a dual link DVI, so it can run anything you want to connect to it. If I was building myself a new system I would make it quite similar to that one, although I would be tempted by an nvidia 680i based board that could run SLI, although I likely would never use that feature. The nvidia chipsets have occationally had a few issues with linux, but they are usually worked out pretty quickly. I like athlon 64s, but the intel chipset simple has better support, and the core 2 duo is a better cpu design, so that's what I consider correct to buy at this time. For an athlon 64 I would look for an nvidia 570 or 590 based board, since the current via chipsets still seem to have some bugs to get worked out in the linux kernel. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 8 05:38:47 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 07:38:47 +0200 Subject: Linux Computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46187FE7.4020702@visible-assets.com> Hi Randy, Actually, I have a desktop PC that I would like to sell. I've had it for approximately 1 year and 2 months. It's an AMD64 system. The only reason I'm getting rid of it is because I'm living for the most part in Germany and moved everything out of my place in Toronto - except for this computer. I've spent a pretty large effort to ensure that all of the hardware inside of it is compatible with linux. It's quite loaded, but I would be willing to give it away for a price incredibly lower than what you're planning to spend. It includes a monitor, mouse, speakers, a gamepad, as well as all of the pci cards inside. Email me off list if you're interested, but please change the Subject line, otherwise it will likely get filtered into the depth of my TLUG folder. Cheers, ~/Chris Randy Jonasz wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I hope the long weekend is treating you well. In lieu of doing my own > research or as part of that research, I thought I would toss out a > general question. I'm putting together a desktop computer for my > parents. They need to run linux and they want to spend around $1200. > What sort of hardware can I get that will be fully compatible with > mandriva? They use the computer mainly as a window onto the internet > and email, but from time to time, they also edit and print digital > photos as well with the gimp. > > I'd like to go with a dual core amd athlon 64 with 2GB of ram and > maybe a western digital sata hard drive. I'm not sure what video card > to get, but I'd like one with dvi out and nvidia chipset. Don't need > to worry about ethernet card as we have an old dlink which works well. > Sound card is not all that important; they're used to a sb live. > They also want a flatscreen lcd monitor, but this does not need to be > included in the $1200, although if it could be, that would be great. > > Any and all advice is welcome! > > Cheers, > > Randy > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 8 18:30:25 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 14:30:25 -0400 Subject: New Debian Message-ID: <20070408183025.GD3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Debian 4.0 (Etch) is released. Yay! It has been less than 2 years since Sarge was released, which is actually pretty good for Debian. And only about 4 month after the intended release date. It now has an optional graphical installer for people that think such things are important. It now uses a 2.6 kernel at all times, rather than optionally. Apache 2.2 (yay large file support), and lots of other new goodies. Also has amd64(x86_64) architecture officially supported now, unlike the unofficial sarge port. No wonder the Debian servers are slow today. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 8 18:59:47 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 14:59:47 -0400 Subject: New Debian In-Reply-To: <20070408183025.GD3509-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070408183025.GD3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200704081459.47703.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Sunday 08 April 2007 14:30, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Debian 4.0 (Etch) is released. Yay! It has been less than 2 years > since Sarge was released, which is actually pretty good for Debian. And > only about 4 month after the intended release date. > > It now has an optional graphical installer for people that think such > things are important. It now uses a 2.6 kernel at all times, rather > than optionally. Apache 2.2 (yay large file support), and lots of > other new goodies. Also has amd64(x86_64) architecture officially > supported now, unlike the unofficial sarge port. Just noticed that myself on LWN. Announcement is at http://www.debian.org/News/2007/20070408 for those interested. Debian releases always seem to be this way - first I can't wait for them, then they're delayed, then I see grumbling about how the process is broken, then I forget about it, then it springs out of the blue (at least for me). This is great timing, I'm about to build some new servers and I don't much like using testing (or unstable). -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 8 19:02:41 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 15:02:41 -0400 Subject: New Debian In-Reply-To: <20070408183025.GD3509-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070408183025.GD3509@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <46193C51.8070509@utoronto.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Debian 4.0 (Etch) is released. Yay! It has been less than 2 years > since Sarge was released, which is actually pretty good for Debian. And > only about 4 month after the intended release date. > > It now has an optional graphical installer for people that think such > things are important. It now uses a 2.6 kernel at all times, rather > than optionally. Apache 2.2 (yay large file support), and lots of > other new goodies. Also has amd64(x86_64) architecture officially > supported now, unlike the unofficial sarge port. > > No wonder the Debian servers are slow today. :) See http://wiki.debian.org/ReleasePartyEtch Anyone up for a real happenin' release party at the linuxcaffe sometime this week? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 07:18:43 2007 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 03:18:43 -0400 Subject: Linux Computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200704090318.43352.marc@lijour.net> On Saturday 07 April 2007 21:00, Randy Jonasz wrote: > I hope the long weekend is treating you well. In lieu of doing my own > research or as part of that research, I thought I would toss out a > general question. ?I'm putting together a desktop computer for my > parents. ?They need to run linux and they want to spend around $1200. > What sort of hardware can I get that will be fully compatible with > mandriva? ?They use the computer mainly as a window onto the internet > and email, but from time to time, ?they also edit and print digital > photos as well with the gimp. Check this out: http://www.mandriva.com/hardware -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 07:27:27 2007 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 03:27:27 -0400 Subject: Pasting with the mouse Message-ID: <200704090327.27966.marc@lijour.net> Hi I tried compiz and Xgl recently. Unfortunately, I lost the copy-pasting capabilities of my (usb wheel) mouse in the process. I don't find the information to set it up. Where should I look? Well, I still have the right-click option, but I'd prefer to keep using the middle button ;) Thank you, Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 10:10:45 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 06:10:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IT360 show planning meeting. Message-ID: <476445.25842.qm@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> There will be a planning meeting for the upcoming IT360 trade show (April 30th, May 1st and May 2nd). The planning meeting will be April 9th at 7:00 PM in the Starbucks coffee shop inside the Indigo Book shop at Yonge & Eglinton (on Yonge, JUST north of Eglinton). Topics to be reviewed will be: - Booth furnishings - Flier/handout (current plan being to tweak the flier we did last year). - Buttons - Volunteer rules (again basically the same as last year) Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 14:55:50 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 10:55:50 -0400 Subject: Pasting with the mouse In-Reply-To: <200704090327.27966.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200704090327.27966.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <20070409145550.GA2300@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 03:27:27AM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > I tried compiz and Xgl recently. Unfortunately, I lost the copy-pasting > capabilities of my (usb wheel) mouse in the process. I don't find the > information to set it up. Where should I look? > > Well, I still have the right-click option, but I'd prefer to keep using the > middle button ;) Not sure, I have been using beryl on my system lately, using the nvidia driver, which doesn't require xgl or aiglx. Works nicely. Mouse buttons still work as they always did. Did you change the number of buttons on the mouse in the x config? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 15:27:03 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 11:27:03 -0400 Subject: OFTDF Message-ID: <00a901c77abb$8737e9d0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Is anyone here involved with OFTDF.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 17:47:57 2007 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 13:47:57 -0400 Subject: Advise: Programming Language to Learn In-Reply-To: <461A79ED.4010901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <461A79ED.4010901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <461A7C4D.4070008@alteeve.com> Stephen wrote: > > I know Pascal well, C fair and PHP pretty well. > Personally I would use Perl, but I know of no reason PHP couldn't do the job. Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 18:10:12 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 14:10:12 -0400 Subject: Groups and Directories In-Reply-To: <461A77D2.40007-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <461A7614.2010200@alteeve.com> <461A77D2.40007@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20070409181012.GD2300@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 01:28:50PM -0400, Lance F. Squire wrote: > correction!: > user, user, rwxr-xr-x > > user, group, rwxrwxr-x Well setting the directory to g+ws will take care of the group name, but doesn't fix the permissions. Changing the umask setting for all the users might take care of it though. A umask of 0002 certainly makes it do the right thing for me. The default is normally 0022 on most systems. Another option is using posix acl to set the defaults but it is a bit more complicated (although much much more flexible too). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 18:06:55 2007 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 14:06:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: can't ssh out? In-Reply-To: <1176141214.7146.10.camel@localhost> References: <1176141214.7146.10.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <582165.63414.qm@web60120.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, have you tried ssh'ing out from the laptop to other servers? (to rule out the server) what happens if you ssh localhost ? try more debugging: "ssh -vvv host" how does the ssh config file look like? ie: $ grep ^[^#] /etc/ssh/ssh_config Fernando --- Matt Price wrote: > ho folks, > > on an otherwise functioning laptop, I've suddenly > found I can't ssh out, > although, fortunately, I can ssh IN, so my data's > not entirely trapped. > I've tried from various user accounts, including one > fresh one, so the > problem doesn't seem to be in the ~/.ssh/ directory. > > > ssh -v [host] gives this: > > ~$ ssh -v 192.168.2.210 > OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-8ubuntu1, OpenSSL 0.9.8c 05 Sep > 2006 > debug1: Reading configuration data > /etc/ssh/ssh_config > debug1: Applying options for 192.* > debug1: Applying options for * > debug1: Connecting to 192.168.2.210 [192.168.2.210] > port 22. > debug1: Connection established. > debug1: identity file /home/matt/.ssh/identity type > -1 > debug1: identity file /home/matt/.ssh/id_rsa type -1 > debug1: identity file /home/matt/.ssh/id_dsa type -1 > debug1: Remote protocol version 2.0, remote software > version > OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-7ubuntu1 > debug1: match: OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-7ubuntu1 pat > OpenSSH* > debug1: Enabling compatibility mode for protocol 2.0 > debug1: Local version string SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.3p2 > Debian-8ubuntu1 > debug1: An invalid name was supplied > Configuration file does not specify default realm > > debug1: An invalid name was supplied > A parameter was malformed > Validation error > > debug1: An invalid name was supplied > Configuration file does not specify default realm > > debug1: An invalid name was supplied > A parameter was malformed > Validation error > > debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT sent > debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT received > debug1: kex: server->client aes128-cbc hmac-md5 none > debug1: kex: client->server aes128-cbc hmac-md5 none > debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_REQUEST(1024<1024<8192) > sent > debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_GROUP > debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_INIT sent > debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_REPLY > Warning: Permanently added '192.168.2.210' (RSA) to > the list of known > hosts. > debug1: ssh_rsa_verify: signature correct > debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS sent > debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS > debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS received > debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_REQUEST sent > debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_ACCEPT received > ------------------------------ > ...after this the process just hangs. Meanwhile on > the server side I > get this in /var/log/auth.log: > sshd[PID]: fatal: Timeout before authentication for > 192.168.2.104 > > I'm not sure what the trouble can be. As I > mentioned, the process works > fine in the opposite direction so there's no issue > with the network > connection, and i don't believe i've modified the > files in /etc/ssh/ for > a while -- certainly not recently enough to have > caused this problem > directly. I am running ubuntu feisty, so this may > be a bug in ssh, but > i don't seem anything reported on launchpad and this > is pretty odd > behaviour. So I just wondered if there was an ssh > guru out there who > could help me interpret these messages. > > thanks, > matt > > > > -- > Matt Price > History Dept > University of Toronto > matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 18:04:18 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 14:04:18 -0400 Subject: Advise: Programming Language to Learn In-Reply-To: <461A79ED.4010901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <461A79ED.4010901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070409180418.GB2300@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 01:37:49PM -0400, Stephen wrote: > I often need to do utility programs to, for example, extract email > addresses from a text file. Well for munging text, it is hard to beat perl (other than for writing understandable pretty code). I suspect python handles text quite well too, and is certainly a much cleaner language. awk could probably do it too, but I wouldn't want to inflict that on people in general. > I used to use OS/2 REXX and it was great and fast. > > What would be a good choice to use on my Linux system? > > I know Pascal well, C fair and PHP pretty well. I would say try python. Quite popular, with lots of handy libraries available. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 17:45:20 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 13:45:20 -0400 Subject: Advise: Programming Language to Learn In-Reply-To: <461A79ED.4010901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <461A79ED.4010901@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 4/9/07, Stephen wrote: > > I often need to do utility programs to, for example, extract email > addresses from a text file. That's the kind of thing that awk, sed and Perl are very good at. I used to use OS/2 REXX and it was great and fast. REXX is a lot like shell programming .. while it's possibly to do lots of cool things with shell, it's not extensible and tough to debug. What would be a good choice to use on my Linux system? Depending on how complicated the scripts are going to get, it's a toss-up between awk, sed and Perl. I haven't used sed much, but it's very good at grabbing stuff and displaying what you want. awk is a little more involved, but works very well. Perl might be overkill for just searching through a file for E-Mail addresses, but you can use it in so many other areas of Systems Administration and Software Development. I know Pascal well, C fair and PHP pretty well. I would stay away from the compiled languages unless run-time speed is paramount. I don't know PHP well enough to comment on how well it might extract E-Mail addresses from a file, but I'm guessing that sed or awk would be a better choice. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 18:20:29 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 14:19:29 -0401 Subject: Advise: Programming Language to Learn In-Reply-To: <461A79ED.4010901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <461A79ED.4010901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420704091120t6d966bc5xb7ea28843b3cf976@mail.gmail.com> On 4/9/07, Stephen wrote: > I often need to do utility programs to, for example, extract email > addresses from a text file. > > I used to use OS/2 REXX and it was great and fast. > > What would be a good choice to use on my Linux system? Depending on your circumstances, why not REXX? There's an interpreter called "Regina" at http://regina-rexx.sourceforge.net/, and I'm sure I've seen something from IBM floating around somewhere. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 17:28:50 2007 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 13:28:50 -0400 Subject: Groups and Directories In-Reply-To: <461A7614.2010200-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <461A7614.2010200@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <461A77D2.40007@alteeve.com> Lance F. Squire wrote: > I have a group of people working in a server. > > They can all see the common files/directories as they all belong to the > group. > > However, when they create new dicectories in the area they default to > rwxr-xr-x or 755 > correction!: user, user, rwxr-xr-x > How can i get the files/directories to default to 775? > user, group, rwxrwxr-x > Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 17:52:56 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 13:52:56 -0400 Subject: Advise: Programming Language to Learn In-Reply-To: <461A79ED.4010901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <461A79ED.4010901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1176141176.10936.52.camel@stan64.site> Perl would be the best for regex's and such, and quick and on ever linux distro. (or atleast 99.99% of them) -tl On Mon, 2007-04-09 at 13:37 -0400, Stephen wrote: > I often need to do utility programs to, for example, extract email > addresses from a text file. > > I used to use OS/2 REXX and it was great and fast. > > What would be a good choice to use on my Linux system? > > I know Pascal well, C fair and PHP pretty well. > > Thanks > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 17:01:05 2007 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 13:01:05 -0400 Subject: Pasting with the mouse In-Reply-To: <20070409145550.GA2300-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200704090327.27966.marc@lijour.net> <20070409145550.GA2300@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200704091301.05950.marc@lijour.net> On Monday 09 April 2007 10:55, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 03:27:27AM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > > I tried compiz and Xgl recently. Unfortunately, I lost the copy-pasting > > capabilities of my (usb wheel) mouse in the process. I don't find the > > information to set it up. Where should I look? > > > > Well, I still have the right-click option, but I'd prefer to keep using > > the middle button ;) > > Not sure, I have been using beryl on my system lately, using the nvidia > driver, which doesn't require xgl or aiglx. Works nicely. Mouse > buttons still work as they always did. Did you change the number of > buttons on the mouse in the x config? My system uses the ATI driver (ati-8.28.8). Here is the relevant part of my xorg.conf : Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Mouse1" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol" "ExplorerPS/2" Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Mouse2" Driver "evdev" Option "product" "0xc50e" Option "vendor" "0x046d" Option "HWheelRelativeAxisButtons" "7 6" EndSection I tried to reconfigure X with no success. I am not a X expert I am afraid. I disabled Xgl by setting XGL=no in /etc/sysconfig/xgl Thanks. Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 17:21:24 2007 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 13:21:24 -0400 Subject: Groups and Directories Message-ID: <461A7614.2010200@alteeve.com> I have a group of people working in a server. They can all see the common files/directories as they all belong to the group. However, when they create new dicectories in the area they default to rwxr-xr-x or 755 How can i get the files/directories to default to 775? Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 17:37:49 2007 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 13:37:49 -0400 Subject: Advise: Programming Language to Learn Message-ID: <461A79ED.4010901@rogers.com> I often need to do utility programs to, for example, extract email addresses from a text file. I used to use OS/2 REXX and it was great and fast. What would be a good choice to use on my Linux system? I know Pascal well, C fair and PHP pretty well. Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 17:44:23 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 13:44:23 -0400 Subject: Advise: Programming Language to Learn In-Reply-To: <461A79ED.4010901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <461A79ED.4010901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <461A7B77.2040505@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > I often need to do utility programs to, for example, extract email > addresses from a text file. > > I used to use OS/2 REXX and it was great and fast. > > What would be a good choice to use on my Linux system? > > I know Pascal well, C fair and PHP pretty well. Bash shell scripts are quite good. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 17:53:34 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 13:53:34 -0400 Subject: can't ssh out? Message-ID: <1176141214.7146.10.camel@localhost> ho folks, on an otherwise functioning laptop, I've suddenly found I can't ssh out, although, fortunately, I can ssh IN, so my data's not entirely trapped. I've tried from various user accounts, including one fresh one, so the problem doesn't seem to be in the ~/.ssh/ directory. ssh -v [host] gives this: ~$ ssh -v 192.168.2.210 OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-8ubuntu1, OpenSSL 0.9.8c 05 Sep 2006 debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config debug1: Applying options for 192.* debug1: Applying options for * debug1: Connecting to 192.168.2.210 [192.168.2.210] port 22. debug1: Connection established. debug1: identity file /home/matt/.ssh/identity type -1 debug1: identity file /home/matt/.ssh/id_rsa type -1 debug1: identity file /home/matt/.ssh/id_dsa type -1 debug1: Remote protocol version 2.0, remote software version OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-7ubuntu1 debug1: match: OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-7ubuntu1 pat OpenSSH* debug1: Enabling compatibility mode for protocol 2.0 debug1: Local version string SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-8ubuntu1 debug1: An invalid name was supplied Configuration file does not specify default realm debug1: An invalid name was supplied A parameter was malformed Validation error debug1: An invalid name was supplied Configuration file does not specify default realm debug1: An invalid name was supplied A parameter was malformed Validation error debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT sent debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT received debug1: kex: server->client aes128-cbc hmac-md5 none debug1: kex: client->server aes128-cbc hmac-md5 none debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_REQUEST(1024<1024<8192) sent debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_GROUP debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_INIT sent debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_REPLY Warning: Permanently added '192.168.2.210' (RSA) to the list of known hosts. debug1: ssh_rsa_verify: signature correct debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS sent debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS received debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_REQUEST sent debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_ACCEPT received ------------------------------ ...after this the process just hangs. Meanwhile on the server side I get this in /var/log/auth.log: sshd[PID]: fatal: Timeout before authentication for 192.168.2.104 I'm not sure what the trouble can be. As I mentioned, the process works fine in the opposite direction so there's no issue with the network connection, and i don't believe i've modified the files in /etc/ssh/ for a while -- certainly not recently enough to have caused this problem directly. I am running ubuntu feisty, so this may be a bug in ssh, but i don't seem anything reported on launchpad and this is pretty odd behaviour. So I just wondered if there was an ssh guru out there who could help me interpret these messages. thanks, matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 18:01:22 2007 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 14:01:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Advise: Programming Language to Learn In-Reply-To: <461A79ED.4010901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <461A79ED.4010901@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2007, Stephen wrote: > I often need to do utility programs to, for example, extract email addresses > from a text file. > > I used to use OS/2 REXX and it was great and fast. > > What would be a good choice to use on my Linux system? > > I know Pascal well, C fair and PHP pretty well. There isn't much that cannot be done with shell scripts. If you use the command line, you already have some knowledge of the shell. The shell can do a lot without using any external commands, and combined with commands such as awk, sed, grep, etc., most tasks are easily handled. For example, to extract email addresses: FILE=/var/spool/mail/$USER tr '[ ,><"]' '\n' < "$FILE" | grep '. at .*\.' -- Chris F.A. Johnson ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 18:06:38 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 14:06:38 -0400 Subject: can't ssh out? In-Reply-To: <1176141214.7146.10.camel@localhost> References: <1176141214.7146.10.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20070409180638.GC2300@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 01:53:34PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > ho folks, > > on an otherwise functioning laptop, I've suddenly found I can't ssh out, > although, fortunately, I can ssh IN, so my data's not entirely trapped. > I've tried from various user accounts, including one fresh one, so the > problem doesn't seem to be in the ~/.ssh/ directory. > > ssh -v [host] gives this: > > ~$ ssh -v 192.168.2.210 > OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-8ubuntu1, OpenSSL 0.9.8c 05 Sep 2006 > debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config > debug1: Applying options for 192.* > debug1: Applying options for * > debug1: Connecting to 192.168.2.210 [192.168.2.210] port 22. > debug1: Connection established. > debug1: identity file /home/matt/.ssh/identity type -1 > debug1: identity file /home/matt/.ssh/id_rsa type -1 > debug1: identity file /home/matt/.ssh/id_dsa type -1 > debug1: Remote protocol version 2.0, remote software version > OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-7ubuntu1 > debug1: match: OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-7ubuntu1 pat OpenSSH* > debug1: Enabling compatibility mode for protocol 2.0 > debug1: Local version string SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-8ubuntu1 > debug1: An invalid name was supplied > Configuration file does not specify default realm > > debug1: An invalid name was supplied > A parameter was malformed > Validation error > > debug1: An invalid name was supplied > Configuration file does not specify default realm > > debug1: An invalid name was supplied > A parameter was malformed > Validation error > > debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT sent > debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT received > debug1: kex: server->client aes128-cbc hmac-md5 none > debug1: kex: client->server aes128-cbc hmac-md5 none > debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_REQUEST(1024<1024<8192) sent > debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_GROUP > debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_INIT sent > debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_REPLY > Warning: Permanently added '192.168.2.210' (RSA) to the list of known > hosts. > debug1: ssh_rsa_verify: signature correct > debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS sent > debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS > debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS received > debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_REQUEST sent > debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_ACCEPT received > ------------------------------ > ...after this the process just hangs. Meanwhile on the server side I > get this in /var/log/auth.log: > sshd[PID]: fatal: Timeout before authentication for 192.168.2.104 > > I'm not sure what the trouble can be. As I mentioned, the process works > fine in the opposite direction so there's no issue with the network > connection, and i don't believe i've modified the files in /etc/ssh/ for > a while -- certainly not recently enough to have caused this problem > directly. I am running ubuntu feisty, so this may be a bug in ssh, but > i don't seem anything reported on launchpad and this is pretty odd > behaviour. So I just wondered if there was an ssh guru out there who > could help me interpret these messages. Any chance of an error in /etc/ssh/ssh_config ? Or perhaps a corrupted file in ~/.ssh/ Does it affect all users on the system or just some? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 21:38:03 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 17:38:03 -0400 Subject: can't ssh out? In-Reply-To: <476025.75524.qm-FEj/TcKwS9CA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <476025.75524.qm@web60111.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1176154683.7146.32.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2007-09-04 at 16:52 -0400, Fernando Duran wrote: > Hmmm, some semi-random thoughts: > > - I guess you upgraded to ubuntu feisty (perhaps > apt-get dist-upgrade ?) and that version is still not > stable (wait till later this month?). Was ssh working > properly before the upgrade? Any other recent change, > networking? > i've been running feisty for some time, since about november- - occacionally my system's been broken, but very rarely. this breakage is less than a week old, probably quite a bit less; but i'm not sure when the last change to ssh-client or ssh-server was. > - Time-outs always makes me suspect DNS. Just for the > sake of it, use ip addresses instead of host name, > localhost. Some people (especially mac users) have > problems when reverse dns is not set and it takes them > minutes to log in. this doesn't seem to be it; i've tried plain ip addresses and there's no difference, and this user can find url's using dns in other contexts. > > - Problem just for a user: Try delete (leaving home > directory) and recreate the user? Any difference (for > instance in /etc/password) between your main older > user and the new one (like shell etc)? compare also > their env variables. What happens if from root you: > sudo -u matt ssh 127.0.0.1 ? interesting. This works. and, ah! env shows two ssh-related variables: $ env | grep -i ssh SSH_AGENT_PID=7098 SSH_AUTH_SOCK=/tmp/ssh-XeRWOq7017/agent.7017.seahorse i'd forgotten about that. from root of course this isn't an issue: ~# sudo -u matt env | grep -i ssh ~# so, tried killing seahorse-agent, and solves the problem! yay. now i justh ave to figure out what's wrong with seahorse and how to fix it. any suggestions? thanks, matt > > - Look at the logs /var/logs/messages /var/log/secure > for possible ssh/authentication error messages > > - sanity checks: /etc/init.d/sshd restart , netstat > -talp while connecting, backup and clean the > /etc/ssh/ssh_config file, leave only defaults. > > - for extra points: tcpdump, strace... > > Fernando > > --- Matt Price wrote: > > > Thanks to Lennart and Fernando, need to correct my > > own error though: > > > > > > On Mon, 2007-09-04 at 13:53 -0400, Matt Price wrote: > > > ho folks, > > > > > > on an otherwise functioning laptop, I've suddenly > > found I can't ssh out, > > > although, fortunately, I can ssh IN, so my data's > > not entirely trapped. > > > I've tried from various user accounts, including > > one fresh one, so the > > > problem doesn't seem to be in the ~/.ssh/ > > directory. > > > > > ok, i *thought* i'd done that -- but due to > > something, perhaps using > > sudo instead of su, i made some kind of error, > > because it turns out that > > this problem *is* really limited to my main user > > account (which of > > course makes it *much* less crippling). ssh out > > from root or other > > accounts (there aren't any other real accounts on > > this laptop, but i > > made up a fake one) work fine. > > > > I tried deleting my ~/.ssh directory, but that made > > no > > difference. /etc/ssh/* seem to me to be fine; > > here's the output of your > > grep command, ferndando: > > :~$ grep ^[^#] /etc/ssh/ssh_config > > Host 192.* mythtv anarres > > StrictHostKeyChecking no > > UserKnownHostsFile /dev/null > > Host * > > SendEnv LANG LC_* > > HashKnownHosts yes > > GSSAPIAuthentication yes > > GSSAPIDelegateCredentials no > > > > ---- > > ssh localhost fails, but works fine from other > > accounts; ssh -vvv gives > > (just at the end): > > debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_INIT sent > > debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_REPLY > > debug3: check_host_in_hostfile: filename > > /home/matt/.ssh/known_hosts > > debug3: check_host_in_hostfile: match line 1 > > debug1: Host 'localhost' is known and matches the > > RSA host key. > > debug1: Found key in /home/matt/.ssh/known_hosts:1 > > debug2: bits set: 477/1024 > > debug1: ssh_rsa_verify: signature correct > > debug2: kex_derive_keys > > debug2: set_newkeys: mode 1 > > debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS sent > > debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS > > debug2: set_newkeys: mode 0 > > debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS received > > debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_REQUEST sent > > debug2: service_accept: ssh-userauth > > debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_ACCEPT received > > ---- > > ... and then a long hang. This is with a fresh > > ~/.ssh directory... > > > > tahnks again, and sorry for the misleading > > misinformation, > > > > matt > > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > matt > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Matt Price > > History Dept > > University of Toronto > > matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > > > > > --------------------- > Fernando Duran > http://www.fduran.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 19:37:42 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 15:37:42 -0400 Subject: Advise: Programming Language to Learn In-Reply-To: <20070409180418.GB2300-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <461A79ED.4010901@rogers.com> <20070409180418.GB2300@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200704091537.43459.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Monday 09 April 2007, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 01:37:49PM -0400, Stephen wrote: > > I often need to do utility programs to, for example, extract > > email addresses from a text file. > > Well for munging text, it is hard to beat perl (other than for > writing understandable pretty code). I suspect python handles text > quite well too, and is certainly a much cleaner language. awk > could probably do it too, but I wouldn't want to inflict that on > people in general. > > > I used to use OS/2 REXX and it was great and fast. > > > > What would be a good choice to use on my Linux system? > > > > I know Pascal well, C fair and PHP pretty well. > > I would say try python. Quite popular, with lots of handy > libraries available. I second Len's suggestion. Python has excellent string and regular expression modules and being an expressive, compact, approachable, and orthogonal language, doing this sort of thing is easy. Like Perl, Python is included with virtually every Linux distro and OS X. HP apparently includes it on their Windows machines as well. It will certainly be no harder to use Python than shell or Perl but it can be a lot easier. The only challenging bit in your particular case is identifying email addresses. If you are certain that "@" is not used anywhere in that file but in email addresses, or better yet, email addresses are denoted by "mailto:", you can use the "re" module to find the email addresses. Here is an example from a recent bit of code I wrote for importing data from a tab-delimited text file into a PostgreSQL-backed Django application. This code populates a "Location" taxonomy vocabulary using the Django ORM (Object Relational Mapper). The final result is a tree that looks something like this: root - Base -- Location --- Ontario ---- North Bay ---- Ottawa ---- Toronto ---- Waterloo ---- Windsor # Begin example # Bring the csv module into the current namespace import csv # Bring the Taxonomy class from the taxonomy models module into the current namespace from taxonomy.models import Taxonomy # Create the root node for the taxonomy tree root=Taxonomy.Create_super_root() # Create a Base node to which we can add vocabularies base_cat=root.add_child("Base") # Create the Location vocabulary location=base_cat.add_child("Location") # Add a term called "Ontario" to the Location vocabulary ont = location.add_child("Ontario", value="ON") # Open the tab-delimited text file containing Ontario cities file_ref = file("data/on-cities.txt") # Instantiate a csv reader object the_file = csv.reader(file_ref, delimiter="\t") # Iterate over the_file for the_row in the_file: # Add a city as a child to the Ontario term by referencing the first column in the_row ont.add_child(the_row[0]) # Close the file handle when there are no more rows in the_file file_ref.close() # End example The general form of what you would have to do is similar but instead of creating a taxonomy, which is specific to my use case, you would be parsing the_row in the_file to extract the email addresses and doing something with them. You might, for example, be sending an email to each of them. Assuming the file you have to deal with is not a delimited file, you will probably not use the "csv" module to open the file but just open it directly using "open". It depends on what you are trying to accomplish. In pseudo code, it would look something like this: # Begin example the_file = open('/path/to/my/file') for the_row in the_file: extract the email address from the_row do something with the email address - save to a file, send email, etc. thefile.close() # End example -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 19:14:51 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 15:14:51 -0400 Subject: can't ssh out? In-Reply-To: <1176141214.7146.10.camel@localhost> References: <1176141214.7146.10.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1176146091.7146.21.camel@localhost> Thanks to Lennart and Fernando, need to correct my own error though: On Mon, 2007-09-04 at 13:53 -0400, Matt Price wrote: > ho folks, > > on an otherwise functioning laptop, I've suddenly found I can't ssh out, > although, fortunately, I can ssh IN, so my data's not entirely trapped. > I've tried from various user accounts, including one fresh one, so the > problem doesn't seem to be in the ~/.ssh/ directory. > ok, i *thought* i'd done that -- but due to something, perhaps using sudo instead of su, i made some kind of error, because it turns out that this problem *is* really limited to my main user account (which of course makes it *much* less crippling). ssh out from root or other accounts (there aren't any other real accounts on this laptop, but i made up a fake one) work fine. I tried deleting my ~/.ssh directory, but that made no difference. /etc/ssh/* seem to me to be fine; here's the output of your grep command, ferndando: :~$ grep ^[^#] /etc/ssh/ssh_config Host 192.* mythtv anarres StrictHostKeyChecking no UserKnownHostsFile /dev/null Host * SendEnv LANG LC_* HashKnownHosts yes GSSAPIAuthentication yes GSSAPIDelegateCredentials no ---- ssh localhost fails, but works fine from other accounts; ssh -vvv gives (just at the end): debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_INIT sent debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_REPLY debug3: check_host_in_hostfile: filename /home/matt/.ssh/known_hosts debug3: check_host_in_hostfile: match line 1 debug1: Host 'localhost' is known and matches the RSA host key. debug1: Found key in /home/matt/.ssh/known_hosts:1 debug2: bits set: 477/1024 debug1: ssh_rsa_verify: signature correct debug2: kex_derive_keys debug2: set_newkeys: mode 1 debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS sent debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS debug2: set_newkeys: mode 0 debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS received debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_REQUEST sent debug2: service_accept: ssh-userauth debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_ACCEPT received ---- ... and then a long hang. This is with a fresh ~/.ssh directory... tahnks again, and sorry for the misleading misinformation, matt > thanks, > matt > > > -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 19:36:31 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 15:36:31 -0400 Subject: Advise: Programming Language to Learn In-Reply-To: <461A79ED.4010901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <461A79ED.4010901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <461A5D7F.32147.41D13@sciguy.vex.net> > I often need to do utility programs to, for example, extract email > addresses from a text file. > > I used to use OS/2 REXX and it was great and fast. > > What would be a good choice to use on my Linux system? > > I know Pascal well, C fair and PHP pretty well. > PHP would be a good choice for handling email. For other applications, C would not go astray on Linux Paul King > Thanks > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 19:41:19 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 15:41:19 -0400 Subject: Advise: Programming Language to Learn In-Reply-To: <20070409180418.GB2300-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <461A79ED.4010901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <461A5E9F.31786.8842A@sciguy.vex.net> > On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 01:37:49PM -0400, Stephen wrote: > > I often need to do utility programs to, for example, extract email > > addresses from a text file. > > Well for munging text, it is hard to beat perl (other than for writing > understandable pretty code). I suspect python handles text quite well > too, and is certainly a much cleaner language. awk could probably do it > too, but I wouldn't want to inflict that on people in general. > For fear of garnering wrath from purists, I agree even to the extent that perl seems to have assumed most of the functionality of sed and awk. If you can pattern-match in sed, you can pattern-match in perl, since the syntax is mostly the same. > > I used to use OS/2 REXX and it was great and fast. > > > > What would be a good choice to use on my Linux system? > > > > I know Pascal well, C fair and PHP pretty well. > > I would say try python. Quite popular, with lots of handy libraries > available. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 19:48:02 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 21:48:02 +0200 Subject: Advise: Programming Language to Learn In-Reply-To: <461A79ED.4010901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <461A79ED.4010901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <461A9872.6050704@visible-assets.com> awk, sed. grep && some sort of shell - that's your best bet if you want something quick & easy. ~/Chris Stephen wrote: > I often need to do utility programs to, for example, extract email > addresses from a text file. > > I used to use OS/2 REXX and it was great and fast. > > What would be a good choice to use on my Linux system? > > I know Pascal well, C fair and PHP pretty well. > > Thanks > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 19:56:49 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 15:56:49 -0400 Subject: Advise: Programming Language to Learn In-Reply-To: <461A9872.6050704-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <461A79ED.4010901@rogers.com> <461A9872.6050704@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: <20070409195649.GB17499@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 09:48:02PM +0200, Christopher Friedt wrote: >awk, sed. grep && some sort of shell - that's your best bet if you want >something quick & easy. I agree that shell scripts are an invaluable tool. I will argue that shell scripts, done properly, are not always quick and easy. A good shell script is just as time consuming as any other language. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 41 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 20:52:29 2007 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 16:52:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: can't ssh out? In-Reply-To: <1176146091.7146.21.camel@localhost> References: <1176146091.7146.21.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <476025.75524.qm@web60111.mail.yahoo.com> Hmmm, some semi-random thoughts: - I guess you upgraded to ubuntu feisty (perhaps apt-get dist-upgrade ?) and that version is still not stable (wait till later this month?). Was ssh working properly before the upgrade? Any other recent change, networking? - Time-outs always makes me suspect DNS. Just for the sake of it, use ip addresses instead of host name, localhost. Some people (especially mac users) have problems when reverse dns is not set and it takes them minutes to log in. - Problem just for a user: Try delete (leaving home directory) and recreate the user? Any difference (for instance in /etc/password) between your main older user and the new one (like shell etc)? compare also their env variables. What happens if from root you: sudo -u matt ssh 127.0.0.1 ? - Look at the logs /var/logs/messages /var/log/secure for possible ssh/authentication error messages - sanity checks: /etc/init.d/sshd restart , netstat -talp while connecting, backup and clean the /etc/ssh/ssh_config file, leave only defaults. - for extra points: tcpdump, strace... Fernando --- Matt Price wrote: > Thanks to Lennart and Fernando, need to correct my > own error though: > > > On Mon, 2007-09-04 at 13:53 -0400, Matt Price wrote: > > ho folks, > > > > on an otherwise functioning laptop, I've suddenly > found I can't ssh out, > > although, fortunately, I can ssh IN, so my data's > not entirely trapped. > > I've tried from various user accounts, including > one fresh one, so the > > problem doesn't seem to be in the ~/.ssh/ > directory. > > > ok, i *thought* i'd done that -- but due to > something, perhaps using > sudo instead of su, i made some kind of error, > because it turns out that > this problem *is* really limited to my main user > account (which of > course makes it *much* less crippling). ssh out > from root or other > accounts (there aren't any other real accounts on > this laptop, but i > made up a fake one) work fine. > > I tried deleting my ~/.ssh directory, but that made > no > difference. /etc/ssh/* seem to me to be fine; > here's the output of your > grep command, ferndando: > :~$ grep ^[^#] /etc/ssh/ssh_config > Host 192.* mythtv anarres > StrictHostKeyChecking no > UserKnownHostsFile /dev/null > Host * > SendEnv LANG LC_* > HashKnownHosts yes > GSSAPIAuthentication yes > GSSAPIDelegateCredentials no > > ---- > ssh localhost fails, but works fine from other > accounts; ssh -vvv gives > (just at the end): > debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_INIT sent > debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_REPLY > debug3: check_host_in_hostfile: filename > /home/matt/.ssh/known_hosts > debug3: check_host_in_hostfile: match line 1 > debug1: Host 'localhost' is known and matches the > RSA host key. > debug1: Found key in /home/matt/.ssh/known_hosts:1 > debug2: bits set: 477/1024 > debug1: ssh_rsa_verify: signature correct > debug2: kex_derive_keys > debug2: set_newkeys: mode 1 > debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS sent > debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS > debug2: set_newkeys: mode 0 > debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS received > debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_REQUEST sent > debug2: service_accept: ssh-userauth > debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_ACCEPT received > ---- > ... and then a long hang. This is with a fresh > ~/.ssh directory... > > tahnks again, and sorry for the misleading > misinformation, > > matt > > > > > thanks, > > matt > > > > > > > -- > Matt Price > History Dept > University of Toronto > matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 21:27:22 2007 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:27:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: Re:can't ssh out? Message-ID: <550664.48778.qm@web60116.mail.yahoo.com> A couple more sanity checks: - use "find" to see what config files (ssh, networking...) changed recently in /etc , - compare with diff the .ssh directory contents of both users, copy the new one over the old one - apt-get update; apt-get upgrade Although by looking at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssh it seems that the openssh version is the same for edgy and feisty; it changed from dapper. Fernando --- Fernando Duran wrote: > Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 16:52:29 -0400 (EDT) > From: Fernando Duran > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: can't ssh out? > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Hmmm, some semi-random thoughts: > > - I guess you upgraded to ubuntu feisty (perhaps > apt-get dist-upgrade ?) and that version is still > not > stable (wait till later this month?). Was ssh > working > properly before the upgrade? Any other recent > change, > networking? > > - Time-outs always makes me suspect DNS. Just for > the > sake of it, use ip addresses instead of host name, > localhost. Some people (especially mac users) have > problems when reverse dns is not set and it takes > them > minutes to log in. > > - Problem just for a user: Try delete (leaving home > directory) and recreate the user? Any difference > (for > instance in /etc/password) between your main older > user and the new one (like shell etc)? compare also > their env variables. What happens if from root you: > sudo -u matt ssh 127.0.0.1 ? > > - Look at the logs /var/logs/messages > /var/log/secure > for possible ssh/authentication error messages > > - sanity checks: /etc/init.d/sshd restart , netstat > -talp while connecting, backup and clean the > /etc/ssh/ssh_config file, leave only defaults. > > - for extra points: tcpdump, strace... > > Fernando > > --- Matt Price wrote: > > > Thanks to Lennart and Fernando, need to correct my > > own error though: > > > > > > On Mon, 2007-09-04 at 13:53 -0400, Matt Price > wrote: > > > ho folks, > > > > > > on an otherwise functioning laptop, I've > suddenly > > found I can't ssh out, > > > although, fortunately, I can ssh IN, so my > data's > > not entirely trapped. > > > I've tried from various user accounts, including > > one fresh one, so the > > > problem doesn't seem to be in the ~/.ssh/ > > directory. > > > > > ok, i *thought* i'd done that -- but due to > > something, perhaps using > > sudo instead of su, i made some kind of error, > > because it turns out that > > this problem *is* really limited to my main user > > account (which of > > course makes it *much* less crippling). ssh out > > from root or other > > accounts (there aren't any other real accounts on > > this laptop, but i > > made up a fake one) work fine. > > > > I tried deleting my ~/.ssh directory, but that > made > > no > > difference. /etc/ssh/* seem to me to be fine; > > here's the output of your > > grep command, ferndando: > > :~$ grep ^[^#] /etc/ssh/ssh_config > > Host 192.* mythtv anarres > > StrictHostKeyChecking no > > UserKnownHostsFile /dev/null > > Host * > > SendEnv LANG LC_* > > HashKnownHosts yes > > GSSAPIAuthentication yes > > GSSAPIDelegateCredentials no > > > > ---- > > ssh localhost fails, but works fine from other > > accounts; ssh -vvv gives > > (just at the end): > > debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_INIT sent > > debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_REPLY > > debug3: check_host_in_hostfile: filename > > /home/matt/.ssh/known_hosts > > debug3: check_host_in_hostfile: match line 1 > > debug1: Host 'localhost' is known and matches the > > RSA host key. > > debug1: Found key in /home/matt/.ssh/known_hosts:1 > > debug2: bits set: 477/1024 > > debug1: ssh_rsa_verify: signature correct > > debug2: kex_derive_keys > > debug2: set_newkeys: mode 1 > > debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS sent > > debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS > > debug2: set_newkeys: mode 0 > > debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS received > > debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_REQUEST sent > > debug2: service_accept: ssh-userauth > > debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_ACCEPT received > > ---- > > ... and then a long hang. This is with a fresh > > ~/.ssh directory... > > > > tahnks again, and sorry for the misleading > > misinformation, > > > > matt > > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > matt > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Matt Price > > History Dept > > University of Toronto > > matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > > > > > --------------------- > Fernando Duran > http://www.fduran.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 23:13:55 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 19:13:55 -0400 Subject: Groups and Directories In-Reply-To: <461A7614.2010200-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <461A7614.2010200@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <461AC8B3.5070801@ve3syb.ca> Lance F. Squire wrote: > How can i get the files/directories to default to 775? What I have done in a similar situation for a shared directory was to set group write perms on the directory (chmod 755) then set the sgid bit (chmod g+s). -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 10 01:13:45 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 21:13:45 -0400 Subject: Advise: Programming Language to Learn In-Reply-To: <461A79ED.4010901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <461A79ED.4010901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990704091813t6477c769je5455fee34079f06@mail.gmail.com> On 4/9/07, Stephen wrote: > I know Pascal well, C fair and PHP pretty well. Pascal is still alive, if you do a bit of poking around. The answer to your inquiry would depend on what you're interested in playing with / learning. I rather like Ruby's text / file processing, but I've heard good things about using the shell or Perl. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 10 03:33:23 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 23:33:23 -0400 Subject: OT: [Fwd: Reminder: [Live Webcast] Project Open Source|Open Access, April 10, 2007 6pm EDT.] Message-ID: <461B0583.4030406@utoronto.ca> Unfortunately this conflicts with our meeting. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Reminder: [Live Webcast] Project Open Source|Open Access, April 10, 2007 6pm EDT. Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 13:16:54 -0400 From: Kelly Rankin To: 'Kelly Rankin' Just a reminder about this Tuesday's webcast "Open Source Imagined Networks," please see below for details. Apologies if there are any cross postings. ** Please feel free to forward this email to other interested parties** Project Open Source|Open Access, at the University of Toronto, Presents: CODE: Building the New Agora explores current perspectives on the contemporary perception of hardware/software and investigates how open source/open access alters our approaches to professional and social networks. Less than five years ago the cultural theorist Lev Manovich claimed that while the 1990s were all about the virtual, the next decade might be about physical space and interactions, albeit augmented by electronic information. To explore these rapidly changing paradigms you are invited to participate in the CODE Keynote: Tuesday, April 10, 2007, 6PM EDT Keynote: Open Source Imagined Networks Speaker: Wendy Hui Kyong Chun, Department of Modern Culture and Media Brown University, CREATE ePresence ACCOUNT AND USE SYSTEM WIZARD AT: http://epresence.tv/mediaContent/website_register_first.aspx?c=1 We recommend you create your account and run a system check in advance of the event. TO WATCH THE LECTURE ON APRIL 10TH LOGIN 15 MINUTES BEFORE EVENT AT: http://epresence.tv/mediaContent/website_live.aspx For more details, or to attend the event in person, please see: http://open.utoronto.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=526&Itemid =264 CODE is generously supported by KMDI's Project Open Source|Open Access. Kelly Rankin Business Manager, ePresence Open Source Consortium University of Toronto http://epresence.tv 416-946-8512 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 10 11:34:45 2007 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:34:45 -0400 Subject: Advise: Programming Language to Learn In-Reply-To: <461A79ED.4010901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <461A79ED.4010901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070410113444.GG17735@btd248.bangthedrum.net> On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 01:37:49PM -0400, Stephen wrote: > I often need to do utility programs to, for example, extract email > addresses from a text file. Any language could do this, but Python is a good chice since the time you invest in learning it for this simple thing pays off later in bigger ways. Python is the preferred administration language for Ubuntu, RedHat, Gentoo, and many high profile projects like Gnome, Xen and Subversion. HP recently bought a Python (and Ajax) based web service company to develop its strategy of making consumer printing from the web easier, and distributes Python on all its Pavillion PC's. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 10 11:48:09 2007 From: rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:48:09 -0400 Subject: Advise: Programming Language to Learn In-Reply-To: <20070410113444.GG17735-iFVh0st4hley7MaN/dbMZZCvNENFVyUR@public.gmane.org> References: <461A79ED.4010901@rogers.com> <20070410113444.GG17735@btd248.bangthedrum.net> Message-ID: <461B7979.6010506@luckdancing.com> Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 01:37:49PM -0400, Stephen wrote: > >> I often need to do utility programs to, for example, extract email >> addresses from a text file. >> http://www.freebyte.com/programming/cobol/ Hey, works for me :-) Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 10 14:15:02 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:15:02 -0400 Subject: seahorse and ssh In-Reply-To: <1176154683.7146.32.camel@localhost> References: <476025.75524.qm@web60111.mail.yahoo.com> <1176154683.7146.32.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1176214502.7165.13.camel@localhost> still trying to work all this out. On Mon, 2007-09-04 at 17:38 -0400, Matt Price wrote: > On Mon, 2007-09-04 at 16:52 -0400, Fernando Duran wrote: > > - Problem just for a user: Try delete (leaving home > > directory) and recreate the user? Any difference (for > > instance in /etc/password) between your main older > > user and the new one (like shell etc)? compare also > > their env variables. What happens if from root you: > > sudo -u matt ssh 127.0.0.1 ? > interesting. This works. and, ah! env shows two ssh-related > variables: > $ env | grep -i ssh > SSH_AGENT_PID=7098have tried some experiments and it does sem as if > SSH_AUTH_SOCK=/tmp/ssh-XeRWOq7017/agent.7017.seahorse > > i'd forgotten about that. from root of course this isn't an issue: > ~# sudo -u matt env | grep -i ssh > ~# > > so, tried killing seahorse-agent, and solves the problem! yay. now i > justh ave to figure out what's wrong with seahorse and how to fix it. > any suggestions? tha so i'm not really surenks, > i've been experimen ting and itdoes seem as though seahorse-agent is the problem here. however killing seahorse makes it harder to use wireless in gnome, and adds a burden to email (have to enter my passwrod every time i send a signed email); so i restart it manually in a terminal and watch to see what happens. I getthese error messageso n startup: matt at gont:~$ killall seahorse-agent matt at gont:~$ seahorse-agent -d (seahorse-agent:8198): GnomeUI-WARNING **: While connecting to session manager: Could not open network socket. ** Message: Another GPG agent already running ** (seahorse-agent:8198): WARNING **: couldn't connect to SSH agent at: /tmp/ssh-sBWSGo7040/agent.7040.seahorse: No such file or directory ** (seahorse-agent:8198): WARNING **: couldn't contact SSH agent. Cannot proxy SSH key requests. ------------- there's no man page to speak of for seahorse on ubuntu, so i'm not really sure what this all means. anyone else understand this? it seems like another process is supposed to be running -- another seahorse-agent i guess-- but can't be found by the new seahorse, which therefore refuses to handle ssh requests (which is very good, since then ssh just works fine with manual entries). does that sound right? what might be causing this problem/how might i fix it? since i rebooted to make surei had a clean slate i remembered that i have been having a funny problem with m gnome-session failing on boot -- the session lasts just about two seconds,then goes to the gdm login page, after which everything boots fine. i'm not sure what's ccausing that glitch but it souldsas though it might help explain some of what i'm seeing. anyway, if there's anyone out there who understnads what's going on i'd love some hints. thanks, matt > matt > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 10 12:01:13 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:01:13 -0400 Subject: Advise: Programming Language to Learn In-Reply-To: <461B7979.6010506-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw@public.gmane.org> References: <461A79ED.4010901@rogers.com> <20070410113444.GG17735@btd248.bangthedrum.net> <461B7979.6010506@luckdancing.com> Message-ID: <461B7C89.5040908@rogers.com> Rob Sutherland wrote: > Andrew Malcolmson wrote: >> On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 01:37:49PM -0400, Stephen wrote: >> >>> I often need to do utility programs to, for example, extract email >>> addresses from a text file. >>> > > http://www.freebyte.com/programming/cobol/ > > Hey, works for me :-) > What about "Visual Cobol"? ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 10 18:32:56 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 14:32:56 -0400 Subject: Groups and Directories In-Reply-To: <20070409181012.GD2300-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> (Lennart Sorensen's message of "Mon\, 9 Apr 2007 14\:10\:12 -0400") References: <461A7614.2010200@alteeve.com> <461A77D2.40007@alteeve.com> <20070409181012.GD2300@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <87tzvo2i7b.fsf@halley.timwriter.ca> lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) writes: > On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 01:28:50PM -0400, Lance F. Squire wrote: >> correction!: >> user, user, rwxr-xr-x >> >> user, group, rwxrwxr-x > > Well setting the directory to g+ws will take care of the group name, but > doesn't fix the permissions. Changing the umask setting for all the > users might take care of it though. > > A umask of 0002 certainly makes it do the right thing for me. The > default is normally 0022 on most systems. This approach works best when you're using a "user private groups" scheme, i.e. every user has his/her own primary group. This way, the more permissive umask doesn't provide access you don't want. For additional detail, see: http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-7.3-Manual/ref-guide/s1-users-groups-private-groups.html -- tim writer starnix care inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 10 16:17:34 2007 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:17:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: seahorse and ssh In-Reply-To: <1176214502.7165.13.camel@localhost> References: <1176214502.7165.13.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <335070.72778.qm@web60115.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I don't know anything about seahorse-agent, I guess is like ssh-agent for gnome? oh, OK googled up: http://live.gnome.org/Seahorse Can you use an alternative, or maybe apt-get remove --purge & apt-get install it? simplify its settings if possible? does it produce a log, any info in the Linux logs? Fernando --- Matt Price wrote: > still trying to work all this out. > > On Mon, 2007-09-04 at 17:38 -0400, Matt Price wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-09-04 at 16:52 -0400, Fernando Duran > wrote: > > > > - Problem just for a user: Try delete (leaving > home > > > directory) and recreate the user? Any difference > (for > > > instance in /etc/password) between your main > older > > > user and the new one (like shell etc)? compare > also > > > their env variables. What happens if from root > you: > > > sudo -u matt ssh 127.0.0.1 ? > > interesting. This works. and, ah! env shows two > ssh-related > > variables: > > $ env | grep -i ssh > > SSH_AGENT_PID=7098have tried some experiments and > it does sem as if > > > SSH_AUTH_SOCK=/tmp/ssh-XeRWOq7017/agent.7017.seahorse > > > > i'd forgotten about that. from root of course > this isn't an issue: > > ~# sudo -u matt env | grep -i ssh > > ~# > > > > so, tried killing seahorse-agent, and solves the > problem! yay. now i > > justh ave to figure out what's wrong with seahorse > and how to fix it. > > any suggestions? tha so i'm not really surenks, > > > i've been experimen ting and itdoes seem as though > seahorse-agent is the > problem here. however killing seahorse makes it > harder to use wireless > in gnome, and adds a burden to email (have to enter > my passwrod every > time i send a signed email); so i restart it > manually in a terminal and > watch to see what happens. I getthese error > messageso n startup: > > matt at gont:~$ killall seahorse-agent > matt at gont:~$ seahorse-agent -d > > (seahorse-agent:8198): GnomeUI-WARNING **: While > connecting to session > manager: > Could not open network socket. > ** Message: Another GPG agent already running > > > ** (seahorse-agent:8198): WARNING **: couldn't > connect to SSH agent > at: /tmp/ssh-sBWSGo7040/agent.7040.seahorse: No such > file or directory > > ** (seahorse-agent:8198): WARNING **: couldn't > contact SSH agent. Cannot > proxy SSH key requests. > ------------- > there's no man page to speak of for seahorse on > ubuntu, so i'm not > really sure what this all means. anyone else > understand this? it seems > like another process is supposed to be running -- > another seahorse-agent > i guess-- but can't be found by the new seahorse, > which therefore > refuses to handle ssh requests (which is very good, > since then ssh just > works fine with manual entries). does that sound > right? what might be > causing this problem/how might i fix it? > > since i rebooted to make surei had a clean slate i > remembered that i > have been having a funny problem with m > gnome-session failing on boot -- > the session lasts just about two seconds,then goes > to the gdm login > page, after which everything boots fine. i'm not > sure what's ccausing > that glitch but it souldsas though it might help > explain some of what > i'm seeing. > > anyway, if there's anyone out there who understnads > what's going on i'd > love some hints. thanks, > > matt > > > > matt > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > Matt Price > History Dept > University of Toronto > matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 11 02:26:45 2007 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 22:26:45 -0400 Subject: version control: darcs vs bazaar-ng vs cogito vs monotone Message-ID: <20070411022645.GA30742@md5.ca> Hi, Right now I need to find a version control system that will allow me to work with remote developers and be somewhat flexible. I have looked at these four VCSs and find it particularly hard to distinguish real down to earth reasons why not to use one of them. I do like the fact that git / cogito is maintained by Linus and friends, meaning long life and cunning view of particularly sharp developers continually evolving and fixing the code. And fact that it has to be fast, and it is. Any opinions on those version control systems would be appreciated. Regards, Pavel -- Create like God. Command like a King. Work like a Slave. http://perlpimp.com : http://md5.ca/resume.pdf -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 11 03:41:28 2007 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 23:41:28 -0400 Subject: version control: darcs vs bazaar-ng vs cogito vs monotone In-Reply-To: <20070411022645.GA30742-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <20070411022645.GA30742@md5.ca> Message-ID: <1176262888.3941.19.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 22:26 -0400, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > Hi, > Right now I need to find a version control system that will allow me to work with remote developers and be somewhat flexible. I have looked at these four VCSs and find it particularly hard to distinguish real down to earth reasons why not to use one of them. I do like the fact that git / cogito is maintained by Linus and friends, meaning long life and cunning view of particularly sharp developers continually evolving and fixing the code. And fact that it has to be fast, and it is. > > Any opinions on those version control systems would be appreciated. > Regards, > Pavel A few years ago when Linus first announced his version control system after leaving BitKeeper (?), he said that his VCS was only designed for the Linux kernel developers and wasn't intended for wide-spread use. I don't know if this is still true. YMMV. Ken B. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 11 03:52:00 2007 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 23:52:00 -0400 Subject: version control: darcs vs bazaar-ng vs cogito vs monotone In-Reply-To: <1176262888.3941.19.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070411022645.GA30742@md5.ca> <1176262888.3941.19.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <20070411035200.GA31618@md5.ca> Ken Burtch(kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org)@Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 11:41:28PM -0400: > A few years ago when Linus first announced his version control system > after leaving BitKeeper (?), he said that his VCS was only designed for > the Linux kernel developers and wasn't intended for wide-spread use. I > don't know if this is still true. YMMV. Reason it is for the kernel, is that is easier to deal with people's contributions as all changes are stored in patchsets. At that granularity it is easier to deal with deciding what goes in and what doesn't. So far that I know I am installing it and looking at the manuals now. Pavel -- Create like God. Command like a King. Work like a Slave. http://gpg.md5.ca http://perlpimp.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 11 15:20:53 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:20:53 -0400 Subject: version control: darcs vs bazaar-ng vs cogito vs monotone In-Reply-To: <20070411022645.GA30742-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <20070411022645.GA30742@md5.ca> Message-ID: On 4/10/07, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > > Hi, > Right now I need to find a version control system that will allow me to > work with remote developers and be somewhat flexible. I have looked at these > four VCSs and find it particularly hard to distinguish real down to earth > reasons why not to use one of them. I do like the fact that git / cogito is > maintained by Linus and friends, meaning long life and cunning view of > particularly sharp developers continually evolving and fixing the code. And > fact that it has to be fast, and it is. > > Any opinions on those version control systems would be appreciated. How about Subversion (http://subversion.tigris.org/)? It works locally and remotely. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 11 16:12:20 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:12:20 -0400 Subject: version control: darcs vs bazaar-ng vs cogito vs monotone In-Reply-To: References: <20070411022645.GA30742@md5.ca> Message-ID: <461D08E4.90706@alteeve.com> Alex Beamish wrote: > On 4/10/07, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: >> >> Hi, >> Right now I need to find a version control system that will allow me to >> work with remote developers and be somewhat flexible. I have looked at >> these >> four VCSs and find it particularly hard to distinguish real down to earth >> reasons why not to use one of them. I do like the fact that git / >> cogito is >> maintained by Linus and friends, meaning long life and cunning view of >> particularly sharp developers continually evolving and fixing the >> code. And >> fact that it has to be fast, and it is. >> >> Any opinions on those version control systems would be appreciated. > > > How about Subversion (http://subversion.tigris.org/)? It works locally and > remotely. > I know subversion wasn't on your list, but I'd also like to recommend it. I've only used CVS and SVN, but of those two I really like Subversion, specially with the ViewVC (used to be named ViewCVS) front end. The only downside to ViewVC is that it doesn't have an internal method of restricting access. To deal with that though a simple .htaccess file in the directory with viewvc.cgi works very well. My $0.02. Please let us know what you decide on and what you think of it after you use it for a bit. Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 11 17:34:55 2007 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 13:34:55 -0400 Subject: Advise: Programming Language to Learn In-Reply-To: <461A79ED.4010901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <461A79ED.4010901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <461D1C3F.3020804@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > What would be a good choice to use on my Linux system? > Thank you all for your replies. Not a touch of 'religion' at all. I am going to start with PERL. It is close to PHP and seems intended for what I want to do. Cheers! Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 11 17:45:31 2007 From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 13:45:31 -0400 Subject: Tech conference in the country Message-ID: <1176313532.30960.131.camel@smeagol> Looking for an alternative to IT360? Look no further than a day trip to beautiful Owen Sound for the first annual HICK Tech Forum! Or come for the keynote and stay the night! We'd love to have you here. ----- HICK Tech: The rural and modern technology conference --------- Momentum is building for HICK Tech (HICK = How the Internet Connects Knowledge), the first annual forum for technology users and producers in Grey-Bruce to take place April 30-May 1. Over 30 workshops have now been confirmed. Divided into four streams?business, digital lifestyles, education and health?the workshops will present a wide variety of learning opportunities for a wide range of registrants. Local IT professionals and everyday users of information technology will find the HICK Tech sessions informative, provocative and stimulating. Session leaders include Richard Thomas (home videos and digitization), Ron Nolan (bovine genetics), Larry Jensen (building a song with digital recording equipment), Rob Cotton (digital cameras), Mini Jacques (low vision Internet users), Shane Jolley (Grass Roots Democracy Online), Francesca Dobbyn (volunteer services portal project) and Michael den Tandt (critical journalism and the future of the media). HICK Tech will bring together local technology users from first time dial-up e-mailers to full time web workers to learn, connect and celebrate our online community. The HICK Tech keynote presentation, The Momentum Machine, with Jen Evans (president of Sequentia Communications and technology columnist for The Globe and Mail) will tackle the issue of community participation in a rural setting such as ours as well as the importance of technology to youth, seniors and other online users. The Momentum Machine, co-sponsored by The Sun Times and The Bluewater Association for Lifelong Learning, will be at The Roxy, 7 pm, Monday April 30. Tickets are now available from The Roxy for $25. The HICK Tech Forum with over 30 sessions to choose from will take place at Georgian College on May 1. Register now ($100) at www.HICKTech.com and spend a day exploring the future in Grey/Bruce. For more information and to register, contact Emma Jane Hogbin 519-371-2665 emma-TH5C/S0Y0PNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org www.hicktech.com -- Emma Jane Hogbin, B.Sc. Conference Chair, H.I.C.K. Tech (519) 371-2665 - emma-TH5C/S0Y0PNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org HICK Tech - The Rural and Modern Technology Forum - www.hicktech.com April 30 - May 1 in Owen Sound, Ontario, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 11 20:55:46 2007 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 16:55:46 -0400 Subject: IT360-TLUG-booth In-Reply-To: <476445.25842.qm-W5RQQfbthkOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <476445.25842.qm@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <461D4B52.5040409@gmail.com> http://www.it360.ca/pdfs/2007/IT360_Floorplan.pdf On the floorplan, what number was TLUG assigned? Colin McGregor wrote: > There will be a planning meeting for the upcoming > IT360 trade show (April 30th, May 1st and May 2nd). > The planning meeting will be April 9th at 7:00 PM in > the Starbucks coffee shop inside the Indigo Book shop > at Yonge & Eglinton (on Yonge, JUST north of > Eglinton). > > Topics to be reviewed will be: > > - Booth furnishings > - Flier/handout (current plan being to tweak the > flier we did last year). > - Buttons > - Volunteer rules (again basically the same as > last year) > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 11 21:03:12 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:03:12 -0400 Subject: version control: darcs vs bazaar-ng vs cogito vs monotone In-Reply-To: <20070411022645.GA30742-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <20070411022645.GA30742@md5.ca> Message-ID: <20070411210312.GE2300@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 10:26:45PM -0400, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > Right now I need to find a version control system that will allow me to work with remote developers and be somewhat flexible. I have looked at these four VCSs and find it particularly hard to distinguish real down to earth reasons why not to use one of them. I do like the fact that git / cogito is maintained by Linus and friends, meaning long life and cunning view of particularly sharp developers continually evolving and fixing the code. And fact that it has to be fast, and it is. > > Any opinions on those version control systems would be appreciated. Well git works quite well for people working somewhat independantly on features, but wanting to share changesets, which of course is how the linux kernel development works. If you want everyone working from one tree with shared updates, then it probably isn't what you want. Another popular one is subversion, which also handles submits as sets of changes, making merging and such rather nice. CVS simply sucks. Doesn't handle file renames, directories, changes that involve multiple files (makes it your problem to track down stuff to merge later), etc. It is layering one VCS ontop of another which was limited to begin with. Just don't bother. I don't actually know anything about any of the 4 you meantioned in the topic, making me rather doubt if they have particularly many users at all. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 11 23:27:53 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:27:53 -0400 Subject: version control: darcs vs bazaar-ng vs cogito vs monotone In-Reply-To: <20070411022645.GA30742-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <20070411022645.GA30742@md5.ca> Message-ID: <200704111927.53605.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Tuesday 10 April 2007 22:26, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > Right now I need to find a version control system that will allow me to > work with remote developers and be somewhat flexible. I have looked at > these four VCSs and find it particularly hard to distinguish real down to > earth reasons why not to use one of them. I do like the fact that git / > cogito is maintained by Linus and friends, meaning long life and cunning > view of particularly sharp developers continually evolving and fixing the > code. And fact that it has to be fast, and it is. I really wanted to like git (for the same reasons as you) but so far I haven't been able to. I've used cvs, svn and perforce in the past and never had trouble understanding any of them (granted usage concepts map pretty much 1-to-1). The few half-hearted attempts I made at understanding git just left me feeling very stupid. There were some git sessions at OLS last year and the answer to many questions seemed to be not to use core-git for "that", it seemed to me that there were a lot of add-ons in order to make git useable. IIIRC there were no "revision numbers" just a checksum for each commit (perhaps I didn't dig deep enough) - on the other hand cryptographic authentication of history and full history while disconnected is neat, and (it sounds like) core-git has improved (just checked wikipedia entry). I use subversion for my personal issues. My repository is about 3 years old, it's at about 10GB currently, no compaints. Also, despite having no use for it, I like the fact that svn can run on windows. Apologies for bashing git and ignoring your question ;-) -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From askshakthimaan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 12 04:16:51 2007 From: askshakthimaan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Shakthi Kannan) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:46:51 +0530 Subject: Advise: Programming Language to Learn In-Reply-To: <461D1C3F.3020804-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <461A79ED.4010901@rogers.com> <461D1C3F.3020804@rogers.com> Message-ID: <17daacef0704112116x3616aff5sba5008987eaf366f@mail.gmail.com> Hi, On 4/11/07, Stephen wrote: > I am going to start with PERL. If you haven't decided on a book already, I'd suggest "Beginning Perl" by Simon Cozens. http://www.perl.org/books/beginning-perl/ Book is released under Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivs-NonCommercial License. Regards, SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 12 16:28:08 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 19:28:08 +0300 Subject: OT Solaris issue Message-ID: Hallo, How does on shut down firewall on Solaris? Or ever better, how would I open some port in solaris. I know how to work with iptables, but that knowledge doesn't seem helpful here Any help would be appreaciated Thanks William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 12 16:55:02 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:55:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IT360-TLUG-booth In-Reply-To: <461D4B52.5040409-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <461D4B52.5040409@gmail.com> Message-ID: <958053.47064.qm@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- teddymills wrote: > http://www.it360.ca/pdfs/2007/IT360_Floorplan.pdf > > On the floorplan, what number was TLUG assigned? We are to be in booth 404, and yes, I've already had private e-mails with booth not found jokes... > Colin McGregor wrote: > > There will be a planning meeting for the upcoming > > IT360 trade show (April 30th, May 1st and May > 2nd). > > The planning meeting will be April 9th at 7:00 PM > in > > the Starbucks coffee shop inside the Indigo Book > shop > > at Yonge & Eglinton (on Yonge, JUST north of > > Eglinton). > > > > Topics to be reviewed will be: > > > > - Booth furnishings > > - Flier/handout (current plan being to tweak the > > flier we did last year). > > - Buttons > > - Volunteer rules (again basically the same as > > last year) > > > > Colin McGregor > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 12 17:04:41 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:04:41 -0400 Subject: OT Solaris issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <22e435080704121004q6970eeffkd4b47756b2f2e730@mail.gmail.com> assuming you are using ip filters check out /etc/opt/ipf/ipf.conf to mod the setup. There should be a script in /etc/init.d/ to stop it. SJM On 4/12/07, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > > Hallo, > How does on shut down firewall on Solaris? Or ever better, how would I > open some port in solaris. I know how to work with iptables, but that > knowledge doesn't seem helpful here > > Any help would be appreaciated > > Thanks > William > -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 12 14:13:50 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:13:50 -0400 Subject: version control: darcs vs bazaar-ng vs cogito vs monotone In-Reply-To: <20070411022645.GA30742-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <20070411022645.GA30742@md5.ca> Message-ID: <200704121013.51768.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Tuesday 10 April 2007, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > Hi, > Right now I need to find a version control system that will allow > me to work with remote developers and be somewhat flexible. I have > looked at these four VCSs and find it particularly hard to > distinguish real down to earth reasons why not to use one of them. > I do like the fact that git / cogito is maintained by Linus and > friends, meaning long life and cunning view of particularly sharp > developers continually evolving and fixing the code. And fact that > it has to be fast, and it is. > > Any opinions on those version control systems would be appreciated. Hi Pavel, I use Subversion mostly because I have not seen the need for distributed version control. If you insist on distributed version control, I can add two more to the mix, svk and Mercurial. I have not used either one though I understand that svk is built on top of svn libraries. I would be inclined to choose svk simply because there are so many tools for Subversion, such as excellent integration with Trac. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 12 20:43:31 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 16:43:31 -0400 Subject: OT: Computer Scientist or Serial Killer? Message-ID: <461E99F3.6040803@telly.org> http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/killerquiz/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 12 17:15:26 2007 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:15:26 -0400 Subject: open source project need help with USB driver Message-ID: <200704121315.26924.ican@netrover.com> I facilitate an open source project which produces software to interface data acquisition units in a physics lab in Brazil. http://users.netrover.com/~ican/drdaq The hardware that is used is a parallel port driven acquisition unit produced by Pico Technologies: http://www.drdaq.com There is a Linux driver for this unit. With parallel ports becoming obsolete on newer computers there is a need to retrofit this hardware to USB. Pico Tech helps with the following product: http://www.picotech.com/usb_parallel_port.html ... but as is often the case there are no Linux drivers for this system. Pico Tech produces great hardware but when it comes to Linux support ... let's just say they suck. Some scanning around Google I came across these articles: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7466 http://libusb.sourceforge.net/doc/ http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/answers/Programming/Developing_Linux_Device_Drivers_using_Libusb_API It seems that maybe a user space USB driver for the DrDAQ via the libusb might be the way to go. Unfortunately, nobody involved in this open source project has sufficient expertise to handle the task. If you know of anyone with the expertise (or wanting to gain the expertise) and willing to volunteer as a coach/developer have them contact me offlist. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 12 22:00:56 2007 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 18:00:56 -0400 Subject: version control: darcs vs bazaar-ng vs cogito vs monotone In-Reply-To: <200704121013.51768.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070411022645.GA30742@md5.ca> <200704121013.51768.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20070412220056.GA14482@md5.ca> > I use Subversion mostly because I have not seen the need for > distributed version control. If you insist on distributed version > control, I can add two more to the mix, svk and Mercurial. I have not > used either one though I understand that svk is built on top of svn > libraries. I would be inclined to choose svk simply because there are > so many tools for Subversion, such as excellent integration with > Trac. Hi Clifford, Thanks for pointing svk. That some weighty comment on why I would want to use svk, I was not even aware that there was offline version of subversion. Regards, Pavel -- Create like God. Command like a King. Work like a Slave. http://perlpimp.com | http://md5.ca/resume.pdf -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 9 03:05:40 2007 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 23:05:40 -0400 Subject: CityTV story about Dell and pre-installed linux, from linuxcaffe In-Reply-To: <170210.19197.qm-7EKNVtTItHqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <4616BDF1.6090508@rogers.com> <170210.19197.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070408230540.7da1f32e.hgibson@eol.ca> On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 21:12:05 -0400 (EDT) Colin McGregor wrote: > > And please, PLEASE wear a clean shirt protector!!! > > ;-) > > Funny thing, I think the only pocket protector I've > ever had was one from Icom (a well known, well > respected amateur radio equipment builder (yes, I own > two of their radios and my amateur radio licence is > VE3ZAA)). Hummm ... how many groups are out there with > a "geek" image issue? > > - Linux, Unix, etc. computer users > - Amateur radio operators > - Model railroad fans? > > Who else? I have a pocket protector sitting in my desk at home. It has nothing directly to do with electronics. It is for PEM fasteners. These are for captive nuts you press into sheet metal. I do not know how these rate on the geek scale. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 13 01:15:40 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:15:40 -0400 Subject: CityTV story about Dell and pre-installed linux, from linuxcaffe In-Reply-To: <20070408230540.7da1f32e.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4616BDF1.6090508@rogers.com> <170210.19197.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070408230540.7da1f32e.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: On 08/04/07, Howard Gibson wrote: > I have a pocket protector sitting in my desk at home. It has nothing directly to do with electronics. It is for PEM fasteners. These are for captive nuts you press into sheet metal. I do not know how these rate on the geek scale. quite high, IMHO, djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 13 01:32:53 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:32:53 -0400 Subject: CityTV story about Dell and pre-installed linux, from linuxcaffe In-Reply-To: References: <4616BDF1.6090508@rogers.com> <170210.19197.qm@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070408230540.7da1f32e.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990704121832i22ce7a8fvc8a2770043294e54@mail.gmail.com> On 4/12/07, David J Patrick wrote: > On 08/04/07, Howard Gibson wrote: > > I have a pocket protector sitting in my desk at home. It has nothing directly to do with electronics. It is for PEM fasteners. These are for captive nuts you press into sheet metal. I do not know how these rate on the geek scale. > quite high, IMHO, There should be some sort of ratings table, with bonus points for detailing an obscure field, a field that requires at least 8 years of post-secondary to get near, a field that requires 10+ years of "hard hobby-time", using buzzwords or arcane terminology, etc.. Heck, there probably is a list. *googles* Hmm.. geek terror scale: http://rant.mivox.com/archives/000221.html Hmm.. geeky music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fow7iUaKrq4 Hmm.. no luck at a glance. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 13 01:39:08 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:39:08 -0400 Subject: did i miss this cbc story? Adopting Ubuntu Message-ID: <461EDF3C.50805@utoronto.ca> Via BLUG, http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/tech/linux.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 13 13:45:13 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:45:13 -0400 Subject: open source project need help with USB driver In-Reply-To: <200704121315.26924.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200704121315.26924.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <461F8969.5050903@rogers.com> bob wrote: > With parallel ports becoming obsolete on newer computers there is a need to > retrofit this hardware to USB. Pico Tech helps with the following > product: > Do USB parallel ports not work? -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 13 14:12:22 2007 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:12:22 -0400 Subject: open source project need help with USB driver In-Reply-To: <461F8969.5050903-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200704121315.26924.ican@netrover.com> <461F8969.5050903@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200704131012.25234.ican@netrover.com> On Friday 13 April 2007 09:45 am, James Knott wrote: > bob wrote: > > With parallel ports becoming obsolete on newer computers there is a need > > to retrofit this hardware to USB. Pico Tech helps with the following > > product: > > Do USB parallel ports not work? The group in Brazil has not tried the USB to parallel converter that Pico Tech supplies. As to whether it works one can only assume that since it is a commerical product complete with Gatesware drivers that the hardware does work as advertised. The issue at hand is the creation of a Linux driver for that USB to parallel converter to allow the legacy DrDAQ devices in the lab in Brazil to continue in use with newer computers which no longer have a parallel port. I'm interfacing with the Pico support people to see if I can get a written spec out of them describing the interface to the DrDAQ. The group in Brazil is currently using the Linux driver that Pico Tech supplies for the DrDAQ product connected to a parallel port. The source code for that driver is available and presumably could be perused to reverse engineer the above spec. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 13 14:52:08 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:52:08 -0400 Subject: open source project need help with USB driver In-Reply-To: <200704121315.26924.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200704121315.26924.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <20070413145208.GF2300@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 01:15:26PM -0400, bob wrote: > I facilitate an open source project which produces software to interface data > acquisition units in a physics lab in Brazil. > > http://users.netrover.com/~ican/drdaq > > The hardware that is used is a parallel port driven acquisition unit produced > by Pico Technologies: > > http://www.drdaq.com > > There is a Linux driver for this unit. > > With parallel ports becoming obsolete on newer computers there is a need to > retrofit this hardware to USB. Pico Tech helps with the following > product: > > http://www.picotech.com/usb_parallel_port.html Is a parallel to USB adapter not simple to get and use? Would the chip used in one of those simplify the development a lot? > ... but as is often the case there are no Linux drivers for this system. > Pico Tech produces great hardware but when it comes to Linux support ... > let's just say they suck. I thought USB parallel ports were standard and just worked. Well I guess given all the companies screwing up usb-storage, no doubt they can screw up usb parallel as well. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 13 15:46:17 2007 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 11:46:17 -0400 Subject: open source project need help with USB driver In-Reply-To: <20070413145208.GF2300-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> (Lennart Sorensen's message of "Fri\, 13 Apr 2007 10\:52\:08 -0400") References: <200704121315.26924.ican@netrover.com> <20070413145208.GF2300@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <87k5wg9t12.fsf@halley.timwriter.ca> lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) writes: > On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 01:15:26PM -0400, bob wrote: >> I facilitate an open source project which produces software to interface data >> acquisition units in a physics lab in Brazil. >> >> http://users.netrover.com/~ican/drdaq >> >> The hardware that is used is a parallel port driven acquisition unit produced >> by Pico Technologies: >> >> http://www.drdaq.com >> >> There is a Linux driver for this unit. >> >> With parallel ports becoming obsolete on newer computers there is a need to >> retrofit this hardware to USB. Pico Tech helps with the following >> product: >> >> http://www.picotech.com/usb_parallel_port.html > > Is a parallel to USB adapter not simple to get and use? Would the chip > used in one of those simplify the development a lot? > >> ... but as is often the case there are no Linux drivers for this system. >> Pico Tech produces great hardware but when it comes to Linux support ... >> let's just say they suck. > > I thought USB parallel ports were standard and just worked. Well I > guess given all the companies screwing up usb-storage, no doubt they can > screw up usb parallel as well. It's my impression that USB parallel ports are not standard at all. Devices using the Lucent USS720 chip appear to be well supported. I don't think any other USB parallel devices are supported, at least not in the standard kernel. This impression is based solely on documentation in the kernel source and past experience trying to get a Targus parallel port adapter working. I have no direct experience with parrallel ports based on the USS720. I suggest the original poster try a USB parallel port based on the USS720. -- tim writer starnix care inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 13 21:14:57 2007 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 17:14:57 -0400 Subject: version control: darcs vs bazaar-ng vs cogito vs monotone In-Reply-To: <20070411022645.GA30742-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <20070411022645.GA30742@md5.ca> Message-ID: <20070413211457.GA23813@md5.ca> Hi, Just for those who wish to know as a followup, found on one of the bookmarking sites, on how mozilla 2.0 team was choosing new VCS. Process was arduous, they ended up choosing mercurial for its decent performance on windows, otherwise would have chosen git, if not for requirenment of Windows capability: http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/preed/2007/04/version_control_system_shootou_1.html Regards, Pavel -- Create like God. Command like a King. Work like a Slave. http://perlpimp.com | http://md5.ca/resume.pdf -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 14 01:27:58 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 21:27:58 -0400 Subject: OT: Job posting (contract) Message-ID: <46202E1E.2050107@alteeve.com> Hi all, I work for a small company and we need a flash programmer. Working remotely is okay, and the amount of work needed is yet to be determined. This is for an existing application that simply needs to be maintained and have small features and bug fixes applied. This program uses flash for the front end data entry section (retail application) which uses PHP and a MySQL database on a Linux server. We need someone fairly soon, so please email me directly (off list) or give me a call (I'll give you my direct line off-list). If anyone knows of someone who might be interested, please pass this message along. Thanks! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 14 11:20:29 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 14:20:29 +0300 Subject: phpldapadmin assistance Message-ID: Hi pals, I have been looking around for a way to let users manage their password without admin assistance. In another word, I am looking for a way where a user can point a browser to a certain address, put his/her current user name and password and get an interface where password change is possible. These passwords are held in bdb, openldap back end. This have proved to be really difficult. How do people manage ldap content out there? I initially attempted to replace bdb with mysql. My plan was, once I had openldap running with mysql as its backend, I could set up apache to manage mysql, without using the ldap protocol. That wasn't successful. There is little documentation on the Internet on how to do this and I couldn't figure a way around compilation errors I encountered in the course of doing it. I have at the moment seized giving this idea preference, but would give it another shot if I came across a clear howto. The other attempt was to set up phpldapadmin. This is definitely easier, but not without some hiccups. It looks like phpldapadmin can only bind to openldap as manager or anonymous. The problem is, if it binds as manager user1 can mess around with user2 password, even if one login to phpldapadmin with his/her own username. On the other hand, if phpldapadmin binds anonymously, no user can change the password. Now this is not ideal as administrator will need to be involved in password changes. Is phpldapadmin capable of doing this? i.e. binding as a user and offering rights to change data of that specific user only. If so, is it possible for once to assist me with config.php file with confidential data stripped off? I would be grateful for any assistance Thanks William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 15 02:05:56 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 22:05:56 -0400 Subject: Advise: Programming Language to Learn In-Reply-To: <461A79ED.4010901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <461A79ED.4010901@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 4/9/07, Stephen wrote: > I often need to do utility programs to, for example, extract email > addresses from a text file. > > I used to use OS/2 REXX and it was great and fast. > > What would be a good choice to use on my Linux system? > > I know Pascal well, C fair and PHP pretty well. Well, for the near-PL/1-ness of REXX, there would be no substitute for something like Regina, which is an open source version of REXX. If what you want is the "most nearly analagous" thing, then Bash is probably what you want, with Perl/Python being possibly not-so-innocent bystanders. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 15 03:10:36 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 23:10:36 -0400 Subject: phpldapadmin assistance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001701c77f0b$a41d9b40$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> _____ From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Kihara Muriithi Sent: April 14, 2007 7:20 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: phpldapadmin assistance Hi pals, I have been looking around for a way to let users manage their password without admin assistance. In another word, I am looking for a way where a user can point a browser to a certain address, put his/her current user name and password and get an interface where password change is possible. These passwords are held in bdb, openldap back end. This have proved to be really difficult. How do people manage ldap content out there? I initially attempted to replace bdb with mysql. My plan was, once I had openldap running with mysql as its backend, I could set up apache to manage mysql, without using the ldap protocol. That wasn't successful. There is little documentation on the Internet on how to do this and I couldn't figure a way around compilation errors I encountered in the course of doing it. I have at the moment seized giving this idea preference, but would give it another shot if I came across a clear howto. The other attempt was to set up phpldapadmin. This is definitely easier, but not without some hiccups. It looks like phpldapadmin can only bind to openldap as manager or anonymous. The problem is, if it binds as manager user1 can mess around with user2 password, even if one login to phpldapadmin with his/her own username. On the other hand, if phpldapadmin binds anonymously, no user can change the password. Now this is not ideal as administrator will need to be involved in password changes. Is phpldapadmin capable of doing this? i.e. binding as a user and offering rights to change data of that specific user only. If so, is it possible for once to assist me with config.php file with confidential data stripped off? I would be grateful for any assistance Thanks William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 15 03:14:47 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 23:14:47 -0400 Subject: phpldapadmin assistance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001c01c77f0c$394fe1a0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Set your ACL in slapd.conf and write a simple webpage to call ldappasswd. If you need help msg me offline _____ From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Kihara Muriithi Sent: April 14, 2007 7:20 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: phpldapadmin assistance Hi pals, I have been looking around for a way to let users manage their password without admin assistance. In another word, I am looking for a way where a user can point a browser to a certain address, put his/her current user name and password and get an interface where password change is possible. These passwords are held in bdb, openldap back end. This have proved to be really difficult. How do people manage ldap content out there? I initially attempted to replace bdb with mysql. My plan was, once I had openldap running with mysql as its backend, I could set up apache to manage mysql, without using the ldap protocol. That wasn't successful. There is little documentation on the Internet on how to do this and I couldn't figure a way around compilation errors I encountered in the course of doing it. I have at the moment seized giving this idea preference, but would give it another shot if I came across a clear howto. The other attempt was to set up phpldapadmin. This is definitely easier, but not without some hiccups. It looks like phpldapadmin can only bind to openldap as manager or anonymous. The problem is, if it binds as manager user1 can mess around with user2 password, even if one login to phpldapadmin with his/her own username. On the other hand, if phpldapadmin binds anonymously, no user can change the password. Now this is not ideal as administrator will need to be involved in password changes. Is phpldapadmin capable of doing this? i.e. binding as a user and offering rights to change data of that specific user only. If so, is it possible for once to assist me with config.php file with confidential data stripped off? I would be grateful for any assistance Thanks William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 15 16:33:16 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 12:33:16 -0400 Subject: NFS, AFS and Samba Message-ID: <000f01c77f7b$c5533ca0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> So what do the majority of you guys use out there? I am finding NFS completely insecure unless I have 100% control over all my clients that are mounting volumes. Does anyone use AFS? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 15 17:28:59 2007 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 13:28:59 -0400 Subject: NFS, AFS and Samba In-Reply-To: <000f01c77f7b$c5533ca0$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <000f01c77f7b$c5533ca0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <462260DB.1070702@the-wire.com> Ansar Mohammed wrote: > So what do the majority of you guys use out there? > I am finding NFS completely insecure unless I have 100% control over all my > clients that are mounting volumes. Does anyone use AFS? Samba and NFS, but so far only on LANs where I have enough trust in the other hosts. If I try for anything bigger I'm more inclined to try FTP through SSH.. haven't researched that yet. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 15 20:07:37 2007 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 16:07:37 -0400 Subject: NFS, AFS and Samba In-Reply-To: <000f01c77f7b$c5533ca0$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <000f01c77f7b$c5533ca0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <20070415200737.GA10130@md5.ca> Ansar Mohammed(ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org)@Sun, Apr 15, 2007 at 12:33:16PM -0400: > So what do the majority of you guys use out there? > I am finding NFS completely insecure unless I have 100% control over all my > clients that are mounting volumes. Does anyone use AFS? If you want to serve files to anonymous individuals, HTTP is best. If you want them to upload use sftp. If you have authorized individuals, you will need to create VPN, for those interested in participating in your LAN. Thats how many companies do that. You can have NFS, running properly if you have NIS. Samba is a little bit simpler in authentication department and is quite fast, but you don't get to keep your permissions. So yes if you want remote users to use your LAN services in general you would want then to connect to your net via some sort of VPN. Which will include authenticaiton. FreeSWAN seems to be popular. Cheers, Pavel -- Create like God. Command like a King. Work like a Slave. http://perlpimp.com | http://md5.ca/resume.pdf -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 15 20:33:35 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 16:33:35 -0400 Subject: NFS, AFS and Samba In-Reply-To: <20070415200737.GA10130-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <000f01c77f7b$c5533ca0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070415200737.GA10130@md5.ca> Message-ID: <46228C1F.4040409@rogers.com> Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > So yes if you want remote users to use your LAN services in general you would want then to connect to your net via some sort of VPN. Which will include authenticaiton. FreeSWAN seems to be popular. > Cheers, > Pavel > > I use OpenVPN, which works well on both Linux & Windows. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 15 21:14:41 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 17:14:41 -0400 Subject: NFS, AFS and Samba In-Reply-To: <46228C1F.4040409-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <000f01c77f7b$c5533ca0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070415200737.GA10130@md5.ca> <46228C1F.4040409@rogers.com> Message-ID: <462295C1.60807@utoronto.ca> James Knott wrote: > Pavel Zaitsev wrote: >> So yes if you want remote users to use your LAN services in general you would want then to connect to your net via some sort of VPN. Which will include authenticaiton. FreeSWAN seems to be popular. >> Cheers, >> Pavel >> >> > I use OpenVPN, which works well on both Linux & Windows. > > sshfs? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 15 21:15:14 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 17:15:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: NFS, AFS and Samba In-Reply-To: <46228C1F.4040409-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <000f01c77f7b$c5533ca0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070415200737.GA10130@md5.ca> <46228C1F.4040409@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Apr 2007, James Knott wrote: > Pavel Zaitsev wrote: >> So yes if you want remote users to use your LAN services in general you would want then to connect to your net via some sort of VPN. Which will include authenticaiton. FreeSWAN seems to be popular. >> Cheers, >> Pavel >> >> > I use OpenVPN, which works well on both Linux & Windows. And Mac OSX. I'm running multiple OpenVPN installations with all 3 client OSes running happily. Supposedly Solaris, FreeBSD and others work too but I haven't tried. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 16 02:00:52 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 22:00:52 -0400 Subject: NFS, AFS and Samba In-Reply-To: <20070415200737.GA10130-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <000f01c77f7b$c5533ca0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <20070415200737.GA10130@md5.ca> Message-ID: <005001c77fcb$10966990$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Well I am using NFS with nss_ldap authentication. It's a good solution but NFS is really quite insecure. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Pavel > Zaitsev > Sent: April 15, 2007 4:08 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: NFS, AFS and Samba > > Ansar Mohammed(ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org)@Sun, Apr 15, 2007 at 12:33:16PM -0400: > > So what do the majority of you guys use out there? > > I am finding NFS completely insecure unless I have 100% control over all > my > > clients that are mounting volumes. Does anyone use AFS? > > > If you want to serve files to anonymous individuals, HTTP is best. If you > want them to upload use sftp. If you have authorized individuals, you will > need to create VPN, for those interested in participating in your LAN. > Thats how many companies do that. You can have NFS, running properly if > you have NIS. Samba is a little bit simpler in authentication department > and is quite fast, but you don't get to keep your permissions. > > So yes if you want remote users to use your LAN services in general you > would want then to connect to your net via some sort of VPN. Which will > include authenticaiton. FreeSWAN seems to be popular. > Cheers, > Pavel > > -- > Create like God. Command like a King. Work like a Slave. > http://perlpimp.com | http://md5.ca/resume.pdf > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 16 02:01:50 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 22:01:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IT360 Planning meeting. Message-ID: <594807.84410.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> There will be a planning meeting for the upcoming IT360 trade show (April 30th, May 1st and May 2nd). The planning meeting will be April 16th at 7:00 PM in the Starbucks coffee shop inside the Indigo Book shop at Yonge & Eglinton (on Yonge, JUST north of Eglinton). Topics to be reviewed will be: - Booth furnishings - Flier/handout (current plan being to tweak the flier we did last year). - Buttons - Volunteer rules (again basically the same as last year) Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 16 06:23:14 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 02:23:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SQL-Ledger relicensing on slashdot Message-ID: Relevant to our talk of last Tuesday: http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/04/15/1759254.shtml One of the comments was from a TLUGger and about our meeting. ================ Now I want to learn what some other accounting systems mentioned in comments are like. * Front Accounting * Ledger SMB <== subject of talk * WebERP * OpenAccounting * TurboCash o Windows * GnuCash * Personal o HomeBank o jGnash o GFP o Grisbi * CK-Ledger * Compiere * Lazy8 * Quasar o Linux Canada * phpCOIN * opentaps * Bambooinvoice * GnuAccounting * phpOrganisation * OpenBravo http://newartisans.com/ledger.html [newartisans.com] http://kmymoney2.sourceforge.net/ Chris Browne may know all of these :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 16 13:20:16 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:20:16 -0400 Subject: NFS, AFS and Samba In-Reply-To: <000f01c77f7b$c5533ca0$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <000f01c77f7b$c5533ca0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <200704160920.17104.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Sunday 15 April 2007 12:33, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > So what do the majority of you guys use out there? I've been using NFS, usually with a dedicated VLAN for NFS traffic. > I am finding NFS completely insecure unless I have 100% control over all my > clients that are mounting volumes. Does anyone use AFS? What about NFSv4, is it still a pipe dream or is it useable yet? NFSv4 is supposed to handle encryption and authentication in a reasonably secure way. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 16 16:24:31 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:24:31 -0400 Subject: NFS, AFS and Samba In-Reply-To: <200704160920.17104.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <000f01c77f7b$c5533ca0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <200704160920.17104.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <00f501c78043$b7464b70$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> There are some implementations that are pretty good quality. But AFAIK you need Kerberos running to get the security benefits. BTW, how many people use Kerberos out there? I am still using nss_ldap/openldap. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Fraser > Campbell > Sent: April 16, 2007 9:20 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: NFS, AFS and Samba > > On Sunday 15 April 2007 12:33, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > > So what do the majority of you guys use out there? > > I've been using NFS, usually with a dedicated VLAN for NFS traffic. > > > I am finding NFS completely insecure unless I have 100% control over all > my > > clients that are mounting volumes. Does anyone use AFS? > > What about NFSv4, is it still a pipe dream or is it useable yet? NFSv4 is > supposed to handle encryption and authentication in a reasonably secure > way. > > -- > Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ > Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 16 20:04:21 2007 From: simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org (Simon P. Ditner) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:04:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: JOB: Embedded linux integrator (fulltime) Message-ID: A local tech start-up is on the hunt for some rising stars in the local Linux community... -------- About Us: Jazinga Systems Inc. is a provider of communication and unified messaging technology for the SOHO marketplace. Jazinga's proprietary technologies enable SOHO Companies to have all of the communications functionality advantages of large corporations without the complexity and cost. Jazinga technologies include IP-PBX, e-mail, fax and wireless networking. Jazinga is a privately held start-up company funded by Brightspark Ventures of Toronto. Location: Toronto - Yonge and Sheppard The Opportunity: Jazinga seeks an enthusiastic, experienced and adaptable full time Systems Developer who is passionate about Linux integration. This is an opportunity to work in a multi-faceted environment where you will have exposure to leading edge technologies in the networking and telecom market. This role will allow you to make an impact on a newly developing market. Key Responsibilities: * Port and integrate Linux packages onto a reference platform. * Design, implement and unit test features and functionality as required Qualifications: * You have a minimum of 2 years software development experience * You have working experience with scripting languages (Python is an asset) * Experience writing unit test code * Adept at low level debugging * Strong communication, problem-solving, hacking and analytical skills * Experience in the development of applications for embedded devices would be an asset * As priorities change or shift, you are able to adapt, estimate the impact of the change, and identify new design priorities that meet the need * You have a degree in Computer Science, Computer Engineering, or equivalent work/personal experience. * Experience with MontaVista or uClinux an asset What's in it for You: * Excellent opportunity to join an early stage communication technology start up with strong leadership and vision * Access to all the latest communication technologies * Competitive salary and benefits with stock options available for full-time employees Contact: jobs-dmHEAtkjyaVBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Although we thank everyone for applying, only those selected for an interview will be contacted. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 16 22:33:08 2007 From: jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (jim) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:33:08 -0400 Subject: Powerline HD Message-ID: <200704161833.09036.jim@taylors.ca> I was looking at a product from D-link that uses your house wiring as your network. This would be very handy in some instances. Every site I googled had the same comments as the D-link site. Configuration requires Windows 2000,XP,Vista. Has anyone used this type of products? What I really want to know is after I configure it with Windows will it run when I boot to Linux? And any other problems I might encounter. Thanks -- Jim Taylor 416-651-1967 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 17 01:45:23 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:45:23 -0400 Subject: "Canadian DMCA To Be Introduced This Spring"? Message-ID: <462426B3.90207@pppoe.ca> http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/1875/125/ Canadian DMCA To Be Introduced This Spring "The Hill Times reports this week (issue still not online) that the Conservative government will introduce copyright reform legislation this spring provided that there is no election. The paper points to two main changes from the Liberals Bill C-60 - tougher anti-circumvention legislation (ie. DMCA-style laws that ban devices that can be used to circumvent as well as provisions that block all circumvention subject to the odd exception) and an educational exception that will provide for free access to web-based materials. If this report is true, the bill will be remarkable in its ability generate more opposition than any prior copyright bill in Canadian history. From a policy perspective, it is a disaster - dangerous and unnecessary laws to support DRM and an educational exception that does little to address the needs of the education community while encouraging even greater use of DRM." ... Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 17 07:11:30 2007 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 03:11:30 -0400 Subject: Advise: Programming Language to Learn In-Reply-To: <17daacef0704112116x3616aff5sba5008987eaf366f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <461A79ED.4010901@rogers.com> <461D1C3F.3020804@rogers.com> <17daacef0704112116x3616aff5sba5008987eaf366f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 4/12/07, Shakthi Kannan wrote: > > If you haven't decided on a book already, I'd suggest "Beginning Perl" > by Simon Cozens. > > http://www.perl.org/books/beginning-perl/ > > Book is released under Creative Commons > Attribution-NoDerivs-NonCommercial License. Some other resources: * There are a variety of Perl books online, including Beginning Perl and all those listed at http://books.perl.org/onlinebooks -- but don't forget CPAN, your source of freely downloadable Perl modules (i.e. libraries). Just type cpan and press Enter to enter the CPAN shell, or visit the CPAN website. * If you prefer newsgroups over mailing lists, comp.lang.perl.misc is an excellent newsgroup for all your Perl questions. But we on the TLUG list also take Perl questions. :) * And don't forget the superb tool perldoc(1) which lets you see full help on any perl keyword. Type perldoc perl to see the start page. Type perldoc perlintro for the tutorial. Type perldoc split for help on the split keyword, and so on. If you use Emacs, try cperl-mode. It provides you with quick tooltip-like help on any keyword or builtin whenever you leave the point (cursor) over a keyword for 5 seconds or more. Cperl-mode does a lot. M-x customize-option cperl-hairy to t if you want all the bells and whistles turned on. Regards, Jason -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 17 12:47:03 2007 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:47:03 -0400 Subject: Linksys NSLU2, anyone? Message-ID: <20070417124703.GA17235@amtoo.utoronto.ca> I'm thinking of buying a Linksys NSLU2 (aka "Slug"), and wondering about two things: (1) Does anyone on TLUG have any experience with an NSLU2? (2) Does anyone know where to get one? None of the stores along College have them in stock. Thanks! -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A2 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 17 13:05:51 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:05:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IT360 Show Booth Volunteers Message-ID: <20070417130551.39843.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Here is who I currently have registered for the IT360 show booth as a GTALug booth (listed in the order I entered peoples names into the system (read more-or-less random)). Colin McGregor Seneca Cunningham David Patrick Bill Thanis Amos Weatherill Gordon Chillcott Ivan Avery Frey Myles Braithwaite Steve Harvey John Van Ostrand Drew Sulivan Maureen Thornton Herb Richter Giles Orr If you are on the above list and did not get a "confirmed" e-mail let me know and I will work on sorting that out. If your NOT on this list and want to be a volunteer please get back to me with the following information: - Name (as you want it printed on your badge) - Address (home or work, your call) - Phone number - Fax number (if available, and if you want companies to be able to contact you this way). - E-mail address (you may want to use an e-mail address you don't care a lot about here...). I will attempt to get everone not currently registered, register tonight. Thanks. Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From steven.meyer-bdq14YP6qtRg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 17 15:53:50 2007 From: steven.meyer-bdq14YP6qtRg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (steven meyer) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:53:50 -0500 Subject: Powerline HD References: <200704161833.09036.jim@taylors.ca> Message-ID: <002401c78108$978cb150$8001a8c0@MYDA> Ethernet(RJ45) Homeplug modules will work as network bridges out the box on Linux or Windows or other IP devices without requiring special set-up. The set-up is needed to change the encryption key for security. I would avoid USB type Homeplug devices. I'm using modules from IOGear. Steven ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim" To: Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 5:33 PM Subject: [TLUG]: Powerline HD >I was looking at a product from D-link that uses your house wiring as your > network. This would be very handy in some instances. Every site I googled > had > the same comments as the D-link site. Configuration requires Windows > 2000,XP,Vista. > Has anyone used this type of products? > What I really want to know is after I configure it with Windows will it > run > when I boot to Linux? And any other problems I might encounter. > > Thanks > -- > Jim Taylor > 416-651-1967 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 17 16:44:18 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:44:18 -0400 Subject: Will Linux run on an HP m7680n? Message-ID: <4624F962.8080108@ve3syb.ca> Greetings, all. It turns out my current computer (a PII 266MHz) that I put together myself is not 7 years old as I thought but 9 years old (I just recently found the receipt for the MB). I would like to upgrade it and soon while some machine are still available that don't have Vista on them. I could put a machine together but these days but these days I just don't really feel like going through the hassle to research all the bits and pieces I need and I'm still not sure how much (if any) money I would save over buying off the shelf. Also, if I get the right machine off the shelf I can still get a copy of Windows XP rather than Vista. I still have a few applications I run from time to time that want Windows (a few games such as Myst and Uru, and a CAD application). One of the few machines available at a local store near me has a Hewlett Packard m7680n available for about $1,000. It has a nice amount of RAM and HD built-in along with a TV tuner card (not sure whose card). I know some people don't seem to like the HP machines. My concerns are whether I can change the display board (if I need to) and am I likely to run in to any other problems with running Linux on it? Has anyone tried using this machine with Linux or know of web sites with information from people who have (tried?) using Linux on it? I haven't found a lot of information regarding this machine and Linux in my searches to date. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 17 18:22:10 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 14:22:10 -0400 Subject: Linksys NSLU2, anyone? In-Reply-To: <20070417124703.GA17235-LMpBBneordZSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <20070417124703.GA17235@amtoo.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On 4/17/07, Peter King wrote: > I'm thinking of buying a Linksys NSLU2 (aka "Slug"), and wondering about > two things: > > (1) Does anyone on TLUG have any experience with an NSLU2? > (2) Does anyone know where to get one? None of the stores > along College have them in stock. I have one running, erm, ... I think "unslung." Apparently Debian has gotten more pleasant on it than it was when I last played with it. I've seen it recently on shelves at BestBuy... http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10045051&catid=21116 -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 17 18:23:05 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 14:23:05 -0400 Subject: Linksys NSLU2, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <20070417124703.GA17235@amtoo.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On 4/17/07, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 4/17/07, Peter King wrote: > > I'm thinking of buying a Linksys NSLU2 (aka "Slug"), and wondering about > > two things: > > > > (1) Does anyone on TLUG have any experience with an NSLU2? > > (2) Does anyone know where to get one? None of the stores > > along College have them in stock. > > I have one running, erm, ... I think "unslung." > > Apparently Debian has gotten more pleasant on it than it was when I > last played with it. > > I've seen it recently on shelves at BestBuy... > http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10045051&catid=21116 BTW, the canonical place to go for info on how to deal with it is... http://www.nslu2-linux.org/ -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 17 20:48:30 2007 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:48:30 -0400 Subject: Will Linux run on an HP m7680n? In-Reply-To: <4624F962.8080108-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4624F962.8080108@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <200704171648.30118.mervc@eol.ca> On Tuesday 17 April 2007 12:44, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Greetings, all. > > I could put a machine together but these days but these days I just don't > really feel like going through the hassle to research all the bits and > pieces I need and I'm still not sure how much (if any) money I would save > over buying off the shelf. Just before Xmas I picked up a Gateway Athlon 64 - 3600 [Media Center] and all the the goodies for $399, it is fine with Linux. A son last month got an equiv. Emachine computer which also was completely compatible. Now Factory Direct may not be convenient to you but there are other houses around with good deals on surplus computers marked as re-furbed. $1000 sounds like too much. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 17 19:58:08 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 15:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linksys NSLU2, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <20070417124703.GA17235@amtoo.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: | From: Christopher Browne | I have one running, erm, ... I think "unslung." | | Apparently Debian has gotten more pleasant on it than it was when I | last played with it. I bought (but have not used) a Linksys WRTSL54GS. Would this be better for your application? It includes a wireless router, a switch, and one USB 2.0 port for mass storage. Supported by OpenWRT, but I just read an unverified message that said that the USB2.0 support might be broken, forcing USB1.1 speeds. See message 178 here: http://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=3529&p=8 Slightly cheaper than the NSLU2 at Best Buy ($149.99). $117.59 at Canada Computers. http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=009794 $115 and Infonec http://www.infonec.com/site/main.php?module=detail&id=16509 But wait! Canada Computers lists them for $88.19, with only two in stock (one in Richmond Hill, one in Scarborough): http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=004999&cid=990 I once had them ship something between their stores. No charge, but it took a few days. According to http://wiki.openwrt.org/TableOfHardware: NSLU2 is based on a 266MHz Intel IXP 422 [ARM], has 8M flash, 32M RAM, 2 USB 2.0 ports, not currently/yet supported by OpenWRT. WRTSL54GS is based on 266MHz Broadcom 4704 [MIPS 32, I think], has 8M flash, 32M RAM, 1 USB 2.0 port, and is supported by OpenWRT. I like the idea of hacking on these little, cheap, low power boxes. I just haven't gotten around to it. One might choose between these boxes based upon which community is better suited to ones interests. I chose the WRTSL54GS because I thought that more kinds of connection meant more ways of using it. Oh, and I do want to hack on a router and I thought USB might make that easier. Final reason: a good price at Tiger Direct (turned out to be a price error). Who else in TLUG is interested in hacking on consumer-targetted routers? The best deal right now is probably the Motorola WR850G, refurb, for $22 or $23 (4M flash, 16M RAM, OpenWRT support). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 17 20:26:57 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Will Linux run on an HP m7680n? In-Reply-To: <200704171648.30118.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4624F962.8080108@ve3syb.ca> <200704171648.30118.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: | From: Merv Curley | On Tuesday 17 April 2007 12:44, Kevin Cozens wrote: | > I could put a machine together but these days but these days I just don't | > really feel like going through the hassle to research all the bits and | > pieces I need and I'm still not sure how much (if any) money I would save | > over buying off the shelf. | | Just before Xmas I picked up a Gateway Athlon 64 - 3600 [Media Center] and | all the the goodies for $399, it is fine with Linux. A son last month got an | equiv. Emachine computer which also was completely compatible. Now Factory | Direct may not be convenient to you but there are other houses around with | good deals on surplus computers marked as re-furbed. | | $1000 sounds like too much. I agree. But the m7680n has a lot of extras that Kevin might actually want. http://www.hp.ca/products/static/consumer/Fall2006/m7680n.pdf - 2G of RAM (but RAM prices have tumbled recently; 1G DDR2 can be found for $70 I think) - 500G in two hard drives (each worth just under $100 retail). - two optical drives - no floppy - TV Tuner with remote control. I think that this is an OEM version of the Hauppauge PVR 150, but I'm not sure. Worth perhaps $100 if you want it. - Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 CPU. This CPU sells at a premium. Better than the AMD competition, but I personally think that the market price is higher than the benefit. Note that this will support x86_64 instructions (unlike the orignal Core) and VT (for processor virtualization) (unlike the older AMDs). - I don't know what the nVidia 7300LE graphics card is. It is apparently occupying the PCIe x16 slot. - something is occupying all 3 PCI slots. Guess: Tuner card, 802.11b/g card, modem card (probably a WinModem). - includes 802.11b/g (not common for desktops) - includes wireless keyboard and mouse - includes Windows XP, not Vista. This is probably a negative. It probably explains the reduction from list price. Does it run Linux? I don't know. Probably. Try google. - Intel P965 chipset ought to be good. - nVidia 7300LE ought to be supported - the wireless card is a crapshoot. - the tuner might well be supported (depends on the brand) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 17 21:15:37 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:15:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: getting to Ottawa Linux Symposium Message-ID: Today only, Westjet is offering $11 flights from Toronto to Ottawa. Of course that price is meaningless: it gets buried in other charges. I booked a flight to Ottawa for OLS, and back, for $114.84, all in (I think). Porter would cost $192.22 for the same days. Last year was cheaper, and more fun: I got a ride with Fraser Campbell (thanks!). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 17 23:36:55 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 19:36:55 -0400 Subject: rescue cd for amd64/lvm? Message-ID: <1176853015.7427.36.camel@localhost> hi, my system has somehow gotten hosed (i suspect my son pulling the plug had something to do with it, but it could just be a bug in ubuntu feisty); the boot process stalls when it gets to mounting the root filesystem, which is an lvm filesystem. i would like to boot into a cd environment and chroot into the old filesystem, but am having trouble finding an amd64 rescue cd on which lvm actually works. i tried ubuntu feisty but the lvm tools are missing from the live cd; when i tried to apt-get install them the operation was successful, but i got an error about "no lvscan found for the version of LVM on your computer" -- i don't know whether that perhaps has something to do with the kernel or some such. And i386 images can't run any of the 64-bit binaries from the old system (at least, i haven't been able to make this work). So does anyone have any suggestions? thanks muchly, matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 17 23:53:00 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 19:53:00 -0400 Subject: rescue cd for amd64/lvm? In-Reply-To: <1176853015.7427.36.camel@localhost> References: <1176853015.7427.36.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <7ac602420704171653o3d21b080tb1daa89cf7d2c21@mail.gmail.com> On 4/17/07, Matt Price wrote: > So does anyone have any suggestions? thanks muchly, The minimal Gentoo installation CD for AMD64 includes lvm support, I think, and it's about 50MB to download. You can get it here: http://adelie.polymtl.ca/releases/amd64/2006.1/installcd/install-amd64-minimal-2006.1.iso or you can pick your own mirror from here: http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/mirrors.xml As for solving your root problem, I'm not sure what to suggest. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 00:09:15 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:09:15 -0400 Subject: rescue cd for amd64/lvm? In-Reply-To: <1176853015.7427.36.camel@localhost> References: <1176853015.7427.36.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200704172009.15881.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Tuesday 17 April 2007 19:36, Matt Price wrote: > about "no lvscan found for the version of LVM on your computer" -- i > don't know whether that perhaps has something to do with the kernel or > some such. And i386 images can't run any of the 64-bit binaries from > the old system (at least, i haven't been able to make this work). So > does anyone have any suggestions? thanks muchly, Are you using the ubuntu alternate CD - it claims to better support LVM and RAID. -- Fraser Campbell Georgetown, Ontario, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 00:13:03 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:13:03 -0400 Subject: rescue cd for amd64/lvm? In-Reply-To: <200704172009.15881.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <1176853015.7427.36.camel@localhost> <200704172009.15881.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <1176855184.7427.42.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2007-17-04 at 20:09 -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Tuesday 17 April 2007 19:36, Matt Price wrote: > > > about "no lvscan found for the version of LVM on your computer" -- i > > don't know whether that perhaps has something to do with the kernel or > > some such. And i386 images can't run any of the 64-bit binaries from > > the old system (at least, i haven't been able to make this work). So > > does anyone have any suggestions? thanks muchly, > > Are you using the ubuntu alternate CD - it claims to better support LVM and > RAID. > i wasn't as i don't want to do an actual installation. are you suggesting i could boot into the busybox shell and mount everything from there, then chroot into my root partition? do you think that might work? matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 00:21:43 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:21:43 -0400 Subject: [OT] A question for you web geeks out there ... Message-ID: <46252C57.3456.321DB2@sciguy.vex.net> Hello: I have been given the job of maintaining a web site on Yahoo (not my decision, but Yahoo doesn't actually seem as yucky as I first thought), which uses a number of bells and whistles for its basic service. I had been playing around with its blog function, and later decided to disable it after making a few entries to see how it worked (the blog is not necessary for the website). I noticed when I disabled the blog, the files I created were still visible. In the blog directory were files called "index.html" and "index.xml", plus some accessory files (javascript, small graphics files, etc). I decided to delete index.html. I created a zero-length index.html file in its place (intending to examine the other files to see what their purpose was). When I tested it, I saw the file again as if I hadn't deleted it (I cleared the cache on my browser). I clicked on "index.xml", and it came out on my browser as a fairly nicely- formatted webpage. I clicked on my zero-length index.html file, and the same content came up, except with minimal formatting (times roman, black on white). My question is: how is it that I can click on a zero-length HTML file -- an empty file -- and it still is served to me as a web page with any content at all? Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 00:42:54 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:42:54 -0400 Subject: [OT] A question for you web geeks out there ... In-Reply-To: <46252C57.3456.321DB2-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <46252C57.3456.321DB2@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <200704172042.55648.softquake@gmail.com> On Tuesday 17 April 2007 20:21, Paul King wrote: > My question is: how is it that I can click on a zero-length HTML file -- an > empty file -- and it still is served to me as a web page with any content > at all? With apache, let say, a lot of tricks could be done. Shouldn't you ask them about details how their web server works? Or perhaps you are you using a proxy server? Or they are actually using a sort of proxy server in the middle? zb. > Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 02:11:24 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 22:11:24 -0400 Subject: [OT] A question for you web geeks out there ... In-Reply-To: <46252C57.3456.321DB2-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <46252C57.3456.321DB2@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: On 4/17/07, Paul King wrote: > > Hello: > > I have been given the job of maintaining a web site on Yahoo (not my > decision, > but Yahoo doesn't actually seem as yucky as I first thought), which uses a > number of bells and whistles for its basic service. I had been playing > around > with its blog function, and later decided to disable it after making a few > entries to see how it worked (the blog is not necessary for the website). > > I noticed when I disabled the blog, the files I created were still > visible. In > the blog directory were files called "index.html" and "index.xml", plus > some > accessory files (javascript, small graphics files, etc). I decided to > delete > index.html. I created a zero-length index.html file in its place > (intending to > examine the other files to see what their purpose was). When I tested it, > I saw > the file again as if I hadn't deleted it (I cleared the cache on my > browser). I > clicked on "index.xml", and it came out on my browser as a fairly nicely- > formatted webpage. I clicked on my zero-length index.html file, and the > same > content came up, except with minimal formatting (times roman, black on > white). > > My question is: how is it that I can click on a zero-length HTML file -- > an > empty file -- and it still is served to me as a web page with any content > at > all? I'm guessing that when you created the zero length index.html, Yahoo's upload code probably said, "Silly user .. he doesn't really mean to do that" and ignored the change. Obviously, you can't get a nicely formatted web page from a zero length file. :) -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 02:35:45 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 22:35:45 -0400 Subject: rescue cd for amd64/lvm? In-Reply-To: <1176855184.7427.42.camel@localhost> References: <1176853015.7427.36.camel@localhost> <200704172009.15881.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <1176855184.7427.42.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200704172235.45620.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Tuesday 17 April 2007 20:13, Matt Price wrote: > > Are you using the ubuntu alternate CD - it claims to better support LVM > > and RAID. > > i wasn't as i don't want to do an actual installation. are you > suggesting i could boot into the busybox shell and mount everything from > there, then chroot into my root partition? do you think that might > work? I'd think that it will, I'm not sure that it has any mode explicitly geared for rescue but you can just go through all the install steps up to partitioning and then flip to another virtual console to do your diagnosis. -- Fraser Campbell Georgetown, Ontario, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 03:34:06 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 23:34:06 -0400 Subject: help analyzing an attack Message-ID: <9862A95E-8E79-403A-A325-0CEB3ADC57CF@visibleassets.com> Someone managed to get into one of my machines. I caught it fairly early. However I still don't know how he got root Here's how he hid his files cd /dev/shm mkdir " " cd " " Here's the logs from secure Apr 17 17:34:58 fileserver sshd[15258]: Accepted password for alex from ::ffff:86.126.15.187 port 1088 ssh2 Apr 17 17:35:18 fileserver userhelper[15290]: pam_timestamp: updated timestamp file `/var/run/sudo/root/unknown' Apr 17 17:35:18 fileserver userhelper[15291]: running '/usr/share/ system-config-samba/system-config-samba.py' with root privileges on behalf of 'root' Apr 17 17:36:42 fileserver userhelper[15301]: pam_timestamp: updated timestamp file `/var/run/sudo/root/unknown' Apr 17 17:36:42 fileserver userhelper[15302]: running '/usr/share/ system-config-users/system-config-users' with root privileges on behalf of 'root' Apr 17 17:37:15 fileserver userhelper[15307]: pam_timestamp: updated timestamp file `/var/run/sudo/root/unknown' Apr 17 17:37:15 fileserver userhelper[15308]: running '/usr/share/ system-config-samba/system-config-samba.py' with root privileges on behalf of 'root' Apr 17 17:37:30 fileserver userhelper[15311]: pam_timestamp: updated timestamp file `/var/run/sudo/root/unknown' Apr 17 17:37:30 fileserver userhelper[15312]: running '/usr/share/ system-config-users/system-config-users' with root privileges on behalf of 'root' Apr 17 17:43:30 fileserver sshd[15336]: pam_succeed_if: requirement "uid < 100" not met by user "alex" Apr 17 17:43:30 fileserver sshd[15336]: Accepted password for alex from ::ffff:86.126.15.187 port 1169 ssh2 any suggestions ? I'm checking for root kits now Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 03:43:05 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 23:43:05 -0400 Subject: [OT] A question for you web geeks out there ... In-Reply-To: References: <46252C57.3456.321DB2@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <46255B89.10205.EA78B5@sciguy.vex.net> I tried the html on a different computer... looks like the cache wasn't cleared after all ... oops :-$ However, index.xml, which is of nonzero length, still turns out to be a nicely- formatted webpage. So, to be fair to Yahoo, they seemed to have done it right this time. Paul King > > On 4/17/07, Paul King wrote: > Hello: > > I have been given the job of maintaining a web site on Yahoo (not my > decision, but Yahoo doesn't actually seem as yucky as I first thought), > which uses a number of bells and whistles for its basic service. I had been > playing around with its blog function, and later decided to disable it after > making a few entries to see how it worked (the blog is not necessary for the > website). > > I noticed when I disabled the blog, the files I created were still visible. > In the blog directory were files called "index.html" and "index.xml", plus > some accessory files (javascript, small graphics files, etc). I decided to > delete index.html. I created a zero-length index.html file in its place > (intending to examine the other files to see what their purpose was). When I > tested it, I saw the file again as if I hadn't deleted it (I cleared the > cache on my browser). I clicked on "index.xml", and it came out on my > browser as a fairly nicely- formatted webpage. I clicked on my zero-length > index.html file, and the same content came up, except with minimal > formatting (times roman, black on white). > > My question is: how is it that I can click on a zero-length HTML file -- an > empty file -- and it still is served to me as a web page with any content at > all? > > > I'm guessing that when you created the zero length index.html, Yahoo's upload > code probably said, "Silly user .. he doesn't really mean to do that" and > ignored the change. Obviously, you can't get a nicely formatted web page from a > zero length file. :) > > -- > Alex Beamish > Toronto, Ontario > aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 04:24:04 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 00:24:04 -0400 Subject: help analyzing an attack In-Reply-To: <9862A95E-8E79-403A-A325-0CEB3ADC57CF-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <9862A95E-8E79-403A-A325-0CEB3ADC57CF@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <46259D64.7080502@utoronto.ca> Dave Cramer wrote: > Someone managed to get into one of my machines. I caught it fairly > early. However I still don't know how he got root > > Here's how he hid his files > > cd /dev/shm > mkdir " " > cd " " > > > Here's the logs from secure > > Apr 17 17:34:58 fileserver sshd[15258]: Accepted password for alex from > ::ffff:86.126.15.187 port 1088 ssh2 > Apr 17 17:35:18 fileserver userhelper[15290]: pam_timestamp: updated > timestamp file `/var/run/sudo/root/unknown' > Apr 17 17:35:18 fileserver userhelper[15291]: running > '/usr/share/system-config-samba/system-config-samba.py' with root > privileges on behalf of 'root' > Apr 17 17:36:42 fileserver userhelper[15301]: pam_timestamp: updated > timestamp file `/var/run/sudo/root/unknown' > Apr 17 17:36:42 fileserver userhelper[15302]: running > '/usr/share/system-config-users/system-config-users' with root > privileges on behalf of 'root' > Apr 17 17:37:15 fileserver userhelper[15307]: pam_timestamp: updated > timestamp file `/var/run/sudo/root/unknown' > Apr 17 17:37:15 fileserver userhelper[15308]: running > '/usr/share/system-config-samba/system-config-samba.py' with root > privileges on behalf of 'root' > Apr 17 17:37:30 fileserver userhelper[15311]: pam_timestamp: updated > timestamp file `/var/run/sudo/root/unknown' > Apr 17 17:37:30 fileserver userhelper[15312]: running > '/usr/share/system-config-users/system-config-users' with root > privileges on behalf of 'root' > Apr 17 17:43:30 fileserver sshd[15336]: pam_succeed_if: requirement "uid > < 100" not met by user "alex" > Apr 17 17:43:30 fileserver sshd[15336]: Accepted password for alex from > ::ffff:86.126.15.187 port 1169 ssh2 > > any suggestions ? > > I'm checking for root kits now If it's a compromised root account, you're best off backing up your data and reinstalling. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 04:39:19 2007 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 00:39:19 -0400 Subject: Will Linux run on an HP m7680n? In-Reply-To: References: <4624F962.8080108@ve3syb.ca> <200704171648.30118.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4625A0F7.9040105@ve3syb.ca> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Merv Curley > | Just before Xmas I picked up a Gateway Athlon 64 - 3600 [Media Center] and > | all the the goodies for $399, it is fine with Linux. A son last month got an > | equiv. Emachine computer which also was completely compatible. Now Factory > | Direct may not be convenient to you but there are other houses around with > | good deals on surplus computers marked as re-furbed. > | > | $1000 sounds like too much. > > I agree. But the m7680n has a lot of extras that Kevin might actually > want. Thank you both for the comments. I see ads quite often for machines around $500 or less. They may be ok for a lot of people but I find they are often lacking in memory or disk space. I don't really need a bleeding edge machine but I am looking for something that is a bit higher up than most of your average consumer level machines. I don't know where a Factory Direct place is near me. I'm also a bit cautious about some of the places that try and keep their computer prices low. I can't be sure of the quality of what is inside the box. I don't drive which makes getting to a place such as Factory Direct (wherever the closest one to me might be) not very convenient. The last three times I've bought a machine off the shelf (or had one made to my specs) they cost me around $3,000. I have been looking at Dell machines. The starting prices are good but by the time I customize it I was up around $2800. More recently, Dell machines price out at a bit over $2,000. This HP with its features for only a touch over $1,000 seems like a bargain. > - 2G of RAM > - 500G in two hard drives (each worth just under $100 retail). > - two optical drives > - no floppy All of the above are nice little bonus features. I wanted at least 1G. The pair of 250G drives lets me do disk mirroring or just doing backups to the second drive. I haven't used a floppy drive for ages. I copy files between machines using memory sticks or network connection. > - TV Tuner with remote control. I think that this is an OEM version > of the Hauppauge PVR 150, but I'm not sure. A tuner card is useful. I have a number of things I on old video tapes I want to capture and convert to DVD before the tapes die (and while I still have a VCR around). Someone at the store mentioned they think the TV Tuner board is made by Hauppage. I've read in the past that they are supported under Linux. > - Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 CPU. The two cores will be nice to have. > - I don't know what the nVidia 7300LE graphics card is. It is a lower-end, OEM, or stripped down video card. It isn't on the motherboard so it can be upgraded later if necessary. I hear that nVidia boards better support (or work better) than ATI these days, plus I wanted an nVidia board so I could check out their Cg technology. > - something is occupying all 3 PCI slots. Guess: Tuner card, 802.11b/g > card, modem card (probably a WinModem). The modem and WiFi I'll probably pull out. I don't need them. I also need to make room for an old SCSI controller card which I still need in order to use my scanner. > - includes Windows XP, not Vista. This is probably a negative. This is definitely a plus! This machine is the last machine in the store that does not come with Vista. I won't touch Vista. I've read the EULA and won't accept it. > Does it run Linux? I don't know. Probably. Try google. I have been. It looks like I should be ok from what I can find. I also checked on the sound card and it should be supported with a recent version of Alsa. It is the only slight question mark as it appears to be built-in to the motherboard. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 06:00:57 2007 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:00:57 -0400 Subject: help analyzing an attack In-Reply-To: <46259D64.7080502-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <9862A95E-8E79-403A-A325-0CEB3ADC57CF@visibleassets.com> <46259D64.7080502@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070418060057.GA6151@md5.ca> Jamon Camisso(jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org)@Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 12:24:04AM -0400: > If it's a compromised root account, you're best off backing up your data > and reinstalling. I agree with Jamon, as long as most of your data is not code. If it is code, there shall be validation of code, if copy of this code is only on that system. Cheers, Pavel -- Create like God. Command like a King. Work like a Slave. http://perlpimp.com | http://static.md5.ca/resume.pdf -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason.shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 13:13:36 2007 From: jason.shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:13:36 -0400 Subject: rescue cd for amd64/lvm? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1176902016.26520.57.camel@jshein> Try the CentOS 4.4 LiveCD It comes with a graphical LVM2 tool that works wonders at mounting existing LVM volumes. http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-announce/2006-May/012905.html -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Jason Shein Network Administrator ? Linux Systems Iovate Health Sciences Inc. 5100 Spectrum Way Mississauga, ON L4W 5S2 ( 905 ) - 678 - 3119 x 3136 1 - 888 - 334 - 4448, x 3136 (toll-free) ( 416 ) - 272 - 7998 Blackberry jason.shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Customer Service. Collaboration. Innovation. Efficiency. Iovate's Information Technology Team _______________________________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL AND IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE REVIEW OF THE PARTY TO WHOM IT IS ADDRESSED. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS CONFIDENTIAL AND IS DISCLOSED TO YOU UNDER THE EXPRESS UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU WILL NOT DISCLOSE IT OR ITS CONTENTS TO ANY THIRD PARTY WITHOUT THE EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF AN AUTHORIZED OFFICER OF IOVATE HEALTH SCIENCES SERVICES INC. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS TRANSMISSION IN ERROR, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY RETURN IT TO THE SENDER. _______________________________________________________________________________ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 13:14:56 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:14:56 -0400 Subject: help analyzing an attack In-Reply-To: <20070418060057.GA6151-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <9862A95E-8E79-403A-A325-0CEB3ADC57CF@visibleassets.com> <46259D64.7080502@utoronto.ca> <20070418060057.GA6151@md5.ca> Message-ID: <9C549502-7CAD-4FAB-93AC-05094DE47DBF@visibleassets.com> I understand what it is, what I'd like to know is how. Are there good tools around for checking for rootkits ? Dave On 18-Apr-07, at 2:00 AM, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > Jamon Camisso(jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org)@Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at > 12:24:04AM -0400: >> If it's a compromised root account, you're best off backing up >> your data >> and reinstalling. > > I agree with Jamon, as long as most of your data is not code. If it > is code, > there shall be validation of code, if copy of this code is only on > that > system. > Cheers, > Pavel > > > -- > Create like God. Command like a King. Work like a Slave. > http://perlpimp.com | http://static.md5.ca/resume.pdf > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason.shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 13:22:21 2007 From: jason.shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:22:21 -0400 Subject: help analyzing an attack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1176902542.26520.59.camel@jshein> Try rkhunter http://www.rootkit.nl/ And chkrootkit http://www.chkrootkit.org/ -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Jason Shein Network Administrator ? Linux Systems Iovate Health Sciences Inc. 5100 Spectrum Way Mississauga, ON L4W 5S2 ( 905 ) - 678 - 3119 x 3136 1 - 888 - 334 - 4448, x 3136 (toll-free) ( 416 ) - 272 - 7998 Blackberry jason.shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Customer Service. Collaboration. Innovation. Efficiency. Iovate's Information Technology Team _______________________________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL AND IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE REVIEW OF THE PARTY TO WHOM IT IS ADDRESSED. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS CONFIDENTIAL AND IS DISCLOSED TO YOU UNDER THE EXPRESS UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU WILL NOT DISCLOSE IT OR ITS CONTENTS TO ANY THIRD PARTY WITHOUT THE EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF AN AUTHORIZED OFFICER OF IOVATE HEALTH SCIENCES SERVICES INC. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS TRANSMISSION IN ERROR, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY RETURN IT TO THE SENDER. _______________________________________________________________________________ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 13:33:46 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:33:46 -0400 Subject: help analyzing an attack In-Reply-To: <1176902542.26520.59.camel@jshein> References: <1176902542.26520.59.camel@jshein> Message-ID: <866CEA0E-88BF-4F04-B36E-37056482A911@visibleassets.com> Well, rootkit hunter returns too many connections on their mysql box. :( chkrootkit doesn't find anything Thanks Dave On 18-Apr-07, at 9:22 AM, Jason Shein wrote: > Try rkhunter > http://www.rootkit.nl/ > > And chkrootkit > http://www.chkrootkit.org/ > -- > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________ > > Jason Shein > Network Administrator ? Linux Systems > Iovate Health Sciences Inc. > 5100 Spectrum Way > Mississauga, ON L4W 5S2 > ( 905 ) - 678 - 3119 x 3136 > 1 - 888 - 334 - 4448, x 3136 (toll-free) > ( 416 ) - 272 - 7998 Blackberry > jason.shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org > > Customer Service. Collaboration. Innovation. Efficiency. > Iovate's Information Technology Team > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________ > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: > THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL > AND IS > INTENDED ONLY FOR THE REVIEW OF THE PARTY TO WHOM IT IS ADDRESSED. THE > INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS CONFIDENTIAL AND IS > DISCLOSED TO > YOU UNDER THE EXPRESS UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU WILL NOT DISCLOSE IT > OR ITS > CONTENTS TO ANY THIRD PARTY WITHOUT THE EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF AN > AUTHORIZED OFFICER OF IOVATE HEALTH SCIENCES SERVICES INC. IF YOU HAVE > RECEIVED THIS TRANSMISSION IN ERROR, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY RETURN IT > TO THE > SENDER. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 13:54:10 2007 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:54:10 -0400 Subject: open source project need help with USB driver In-Reply-To: <200704121315.26924.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200704121315.26924.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: On 4/12/07, bob wrote: ... > With parallel ports becoming obsolete on newer computers there is a need to > retrofit this hardware to USB. ... Is it really impossible to purchase a computer with a parallel port built in? I bet that at least server-class machines still have parallel ports. Also, why not just buy used older PCs with parallel ports? Cheers, Jason -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 14:03:06 2007 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:03:06 -0400 Subject: Is it possible to get OEM Windows refunds in Canada? (was: Will Linux run on an HP m7680n?) Message-ID: ... > This is definitely a plus! This machine is the last machine in the > store that does not come with Vista. I won't touch Vista. I've read > the EULA and won't accept it. ... I wonder: Is it possible to get Windows refunds in Canada if you do not accept the terms of the Windows EULA? I once read on the web about the steps some people in the US took and managed to get a refund of the OEM cost of Windows. It sounds like they went through a big hassle, but does it also not make a statement? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 14:10:23 2007 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:10:23 -0400 Subject: "Canadian DMCA To Be Introduced This Spring"? In-Reply-To: <462426B3.90207-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <462426B3.90207@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: On 4/16/07, Meng Cheah wrote: ... > "The Hill Times reports this week (issue > still not online) that the Conservative government will introduce > copyright reform legislation this spring provided that there is no > election. The paper points to two main changes from the Liberals Bill > C-60 - tougher anti-circumvention legislation (ie. DMCA-style laws that > ban devices that can be used to circumvent as well as provisions that > block all circumvention subject to the odd exception) and an educational > exception that will provide for free access to web-based materials. > > If this report is true, the bill will be remarkable in its ability > generate more opposition than any prior copyright bill in Canadian > history. From a policy perspective, it is a disaster - dangerous and > unnecessary laws to support DRM and an educational exception that does > little to address the needs of the education community while encouraging > even greater use of DRM." ... So it sounds like this will be like the Bill C-60 that never got to second reading when the Paul Martin government fell[1], but worse. That's scary -- even Bill C-60 was a worrisome piece of legislation. Why do governments like to pass such unnecessary laws? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_C-60 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 14:39:25 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:39:25 -0400 Subject: open source project need help with USB driver In-Reply-To: References: <200704121315.26924.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <20070418143925.GA5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 09:54:10AM -0400, Jason Spiro wrote: > Is it really impossible to purchase a computer with a parallel port > built in? I bet that at least server-class machines still have > parallel ports. > > Also, why not just buy used older PCs with parallel ports? Why would a server class machine have a parallel port anymore? Anyone using a proper server has networked printers, not old crappy parallel slowpoke things. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 15:27:11 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:27:11 -0400 Subject: Will Linux run on an HP m7680n? In-Reply-To: <4624F962.8080108-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4624F962.8080108@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20070418152711.GB5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 12:44:18PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Greetings, all. > > It turns out my current computer (a PII 266MHz) that I put together myself > is not 7 years old as I thought but 9 years old (I just recently found the > receipt for the MB). I would like to upgrade it and soon while some machine > are still available that don't have Vista on them. Hmm, well from my brief experience playing with vista on my wife's new tablet, I know that if I was to buy a machine with windows pre installed, it would NOT be XP anymore. It is much much nicer, and works a lot better. The advertised new stuff is whatever, but the small improvements in behaviour all over are so worth it. Not sure it justifies the upgrade price (well actually I don't think windows justifies its price ever), but if you are getting it anyhow, it is much better than XP. > I could put a machine together but these days but these days I just don't > really feel like going through the hassle to research all the bits and > pieces I need and I'm still not sure how much (if any) money I would save > over buying off the shelf. Also, if I get the right machine off the shelf I > can still get a copy of Windows XP rather than Vista. I still have a few > applications I run from time to time that want Windows (a few games such as > Myst and Uru, and a CAD application). Well I prefer building them myself (I think it is fun). Then I know what hardware is in the machine and can pick sensible combinations that make sense. See my comments on the HP specs below. > One of the few machines available at a local store near me has a Hewlett > Packard m7680n available for about $1,000. It has a nice amount of RAM and > HD built-in along with a TV tuner card (not sure whose card). Yeah who knows if it will work or not with linux. > I know some people don't seem to like the HP machines. My concerns are > whether I can change the display board (if I need to) and am I likely to > run in to any other problems with running Linux on it? Well the nvidia card is likely to work fine with linux, although it won't be fast, and would probably be a lousy game card. Just fine for TV watching of course. It will be a normal PCI express card so it can be changed later. Of course I have also personally had enough of HP's shitty consumer products by now. My wife's laptop (compaq presario) had the power connector break, which from my research into it seems to be a known design flaw on those series. The HP inkjet all in one that came free with the laptop will usually print a page or two then show "E" and 'check paper' and 'check ink cartridges' and then be sufficiently dead to not let you at the ink cartridges until you yank the power cord (power off is not enough). Then if you reboot windows you might get it to print another page before it hangs while claiming paper jam. So I am not buying anymore stuff from HP's consumer division (no idea if their enterprise level stuff is any better). > Has anyone tried using this machine with Linux or know of web sites with > information from people who have (tried?) using Linux on it? I haven't > found a lot of information regarding this machine and Linux in my searches > to date. Well the specs of the machine are very silly. A 2.13GHz Core 2 Duo is rather nice, and 2GB ram (2x1GB for dual channel) is nice too, but they used PC4200 ram, when most cheap companies don't even go lower than PC5300, and I think anyone sensible uses PC6400 (after all why buy a fast cpu and put slow ram in to slow it down?) Of course the video card has very little ram on it (by todays standards) with I think 64MB, and will borrow ram from the system if it needs more. The P965 chipset I would expect to work with linux. Intel chipsets generally do. The video card should be fine, and the cpu/ram of course always work. The TV tuner is a who knows, as is the IR remote. The wireless is also who knows. Modem probably doesn't work with linux, but the ethernet should be fine (although I am amazed anyone still has a board with 10/100 only ethernet). Some searching seems to indicate that the tv tuner is a happauge 26xxx series (PVR-150), so if that is true, then it should be supported, and assuming they use the IR remote part of that card, then I suspect that would work with linux too. Sound and DVD drive should work fine. So should the memory card reader I suspect (almost certainly just USB mass storage). I guess a question is how much would it cost to get a similar spec machine, except with a bit better quality components? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 15:34:38 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:34:38 -0400 Subject: Will Linux run on an HP m7680n? In-Reply-To: <4625A0F7.9040105-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4624F962.8080108@ve3syb.ca> <200704171648.30118.mervc@eol.ca> <4625A0F7.9040105@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20070418153438.GC5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 12:39:19AM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Thank you both for the comments. I see ads quite often for machines around > $500 or less. They may be ok for a lot of people but I find they are often > lacking in memory or disk space. I don't really need a bleeding edge > machine but I am looking for something that is a bit higher up than most of > your average consumer level machines. My experience with emachines (since a few friends have bought them), is that the quality is really as bad as people say it is. They do fail much more often and sooner than most other machines. Support is also seriously lacking (don't ever expect bios upgrades to fix anything from emachines or updated drivers for anything. If you aren't happy with the box running exactly as it came from the factory, well too bad since that is what you get). > I don't know where a Factory Direct place is near me. I'm also a bit > cautious about some of the places that try and keep their computer prices > low. I can't be sure of the quality of what is inside the box. I don't > drive which makes getting to a place such as Factory Direct (wherever the > closest one to me might be) not very convenient. If the prices are low you can be sure of the quality of the components in the box. As low as they think they can get away with without too many warranty or tech support calls. > The last three times I've bought a machine off the shelf (or had one made > to my specs) they cost me around $3,000. I have been looking at Dell > machines. The starting prices are good but by the time I customize it I was > up around $2800. More recently, Dell machines price out at a bit over > $2,000. This HP with its features for only a touch over $1,000 seems like a > bargain. > > The modem and WiFi I'll probably pull out. I don't need them. I also need > to make room for an old SCSI controller card which I still need in order to > use my scanner. Is a scanner that old worth using anymore? > This is definitely a plus! This machine is the last machine in the store > that does not come with Vista. I won't touch Vista. I've read the EULA and > won't accept it. Have you read the one for XP SP2? Which part makes you accept XP SP2 but not Vista? > I have been. It looks like I should be ok from what I can find. I also > checked on the sound card and it should be supported with a recent version > of Alsa. It is the only slight question mark as it appears to be built-in > to the motherboard. P965 has intel HD audio. Alsa should support that. It is new so there may be bugs, but it will eventually work just fine. Intel is generally quite decent for supporting linux and getting things working. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 15:52:14 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:52:14 -0400 Subject: help analyzing an attack In-Reply-To: <9862A95E-8E79-403A-A325-0CEB3ADC57CF-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <9862A95E-8E79-403A-A325-0CEB3ADC57CF@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <20070418155214.GD5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 11:34:06PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > Someone managed to get into one of my machines. I caught it fairly > early. However I still don't know how he got root Got any services running? Apache, ftp, nfs, etc? Running an up to date distribution or a pretty old one? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 15:54:07 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:54:07 -0400 Subject: help analyzing an attack In-Reply-To: <20070418155214.GD5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <9862A95E-8E79-403A-A325-0CEB3ADC57CF@visibleassets.com> <20070418155214.GD5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <46263F1F.2070300@utoronto.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 11:34:06PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: >> Someone managed to get into one of my machines. I caught it fairly >> early. However I still don't know how he got root > > Got any services running? Apache, ftp, nfs, etc? Running an up to date > distribution or a pretty old one? ssh -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 16:17:38 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:17:38 -0400 Subject: help analyzing an attack In-Reply-To: <46263F1F.2070300-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <9862A95E-8E79-403A-A325-0CEB3ADC57CF@visibleassets.com> <20070418155214.GD5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46263F1F.2070300@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Here's what I know. Looks like weak password on ssh, then portforwarding through ssh to x windows, probably an X bug. Fedora Core 2 is the distribution. Dave On 18-Apr-07, at 11:54 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 11:34:06PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: >>> Someone managed to get into one of my machines. I caught it >>> fairly early. However I still don't know how he got root >> Got any services running? Apache, ftp, nfs, etc? Running an up >> to date >> distribution or a pretty old one? > > ssh > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 16:57:37 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:57:37 -0400 Subject: Linksys NSLU2, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <20070417124703.GA17235@amtoo.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070418165737.GE5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 03:58:08PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Christopher Browne > > | I have one running, erm, ... I think "unslung." > | > | Apparently Debian has gotten more pleasant on it than it was when I > | last played with it. > > I bought (but have not used) a Linksys WRTSL54GS. Would this be > better for your application? It includes a wireless router, a switch, > and one USB 2.0 port for mass storage. > > Supported by OpenWRT, but I just read an unverified message that said > that the USB2.0 support might be broken, forcing USB1.1 speeds. > See message 178 here: > http://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=3529&p=8 I thought OpenWRT only ran on the early revisions of the 54GS. Is the WRTSL different than the WRT perhaps? Is it similar to the WRT54GL in being a linux version again? > Slightly cheaper than the NSLU2 at Best Buy ($149.99). > $117.59 at Canada Computers. > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=009794 > $115 and Infonec > http://www.infonec.com/site/main.php?module=detail&id=16509 > > But wait! Canada Computers lists them for $88.19, with only two in > stock (one in Richmond Hill, one in Scarborough): > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=004999&cid=990 > I once had them ship something between their stores. No charge, but > it took a few days. > > According to http://wiki.openwrt.org/TableOfHardware: > > NSLU2 is based on a 266MHz Intel IXP 422 [ARM], has 8M flash, 32M RAM, 2 USB > 2.0 ports, not currently/yet supported by OpenWRT. > > WRTSL54GS is based on 266MHz Broadcom 4704 [MIPS 32, I think], has 8M > flash, 32M RAM, 1 USB 2.0 port, and is supported by OpenWRT. I think out of those two, the NSLU2 has the better hardware. And having debian support counts for a lot. Of course the NSLU doesn't do wireless, which I guess matters to some people. I tend to believe broadcom hardware is to be avoided, given the hassle they have given me so far. Would be nice with more ram of course, but oh well. Of course some people have modified their NSLU2 to have 64 or 128MB ram by replacing the ram chips on the board and telling APEX to enable more ram. > I like the idea of hacking on these little, cheap, low power boxes. I > just haven't gotten around to it. One might choose between these > boxes based upon which community is better suited to ones interests. > I chose the WRTSL54GS because I thought that more kinds of connection > meant more ways of using it. Oh, and I do want to hack on a router > and I thought USB might make that easier. Final reason: a good price > at Tiger Direct (turned out to be a price error). Does soldering bits in the unit count as your kind of hacking? > Who else in TLUG is interested in hacking on consumer-targetted > routers? The best deal right now is probably the Motorola WR850G, > refurb, for $22 or $23 (4M flash, 16M RAM, OpenWRT support). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 16:58:14 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:58:14 -0400 Subject: help analyzing an attack In-Reply-To: <46263F1F.2070300-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <9862A95E-8E79-403A-A325-0CEB3ADC57CF@visibleassets.com> <20070418155214.GD5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46263F1F.2070300@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070418165814.GF5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 11:54:07AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > ssh Using a stupidly easy to guess password? :) Which version of sshd? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 17:14:05 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 13:14:05 -0400 Subject: help analyzing an attack In-Reply-To: <20070418165814.GF5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <9862A95E-8E79-403A-A325-0CEB3ADC57CF@visibleassets.com> <20070418155214.GD5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46263F1F.2070300@utoronto.ca> <20070418165814.GF5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <2DDB63F0-79E0-47ED-86F8-C153193B930F@visibleassets.com> On 18-Apr-07, at 12:58 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 11:54:07AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> ssh > > Using a stupidly easy to guess password? :) > Yes, don't ask, the horse is already out of the barn... :( > Which version of sshd? OpenSSH_3.6.1p2 Dave > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 16:43:01 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Will Linux run on an HP m7680n? In-Reply-To: <20070418153438.GC5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4624F962.8080108@ve3syb.ca> <200704171648.30118.mervc@eol.ca> <4625A0F7.9040105@ve3syb.ca> <20070418153438.GC5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 12:39:19AM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: | My experience with emachines (since a few friends have bought them), is | that the quality is really as bad as people say it is. I've had behaviour "above expectations" from eMachines. Inexpensive, little support, work OK. But maybe I'm not critical enough. I like my consumer HP boxes better than eMachines. In fact, I like my HP boxes a lot because they seem to work, are cheap, and are quieter than any boxes that I've built. I buy machines very opportunistically. My current (HP) desktop turns out to have been a Staples price error. My previous (HP) desktop was a "debranded" refurb from Computer Warehouse Outlet (since renamed) at a ridiculously low price. All my eMachines were Boxing Day specials at Future Shop, except for the one I just got by catching it before it would have been crunched at a City of Toronto Environment Day. Here is an apparently interesting deal on now if you want a Core 2 Duo system: refurb Gateway, cheap, at Tiger Direct. http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=2912886&sku=G153-GT5238E http://support.gateway.com/s/PC/R/1009189/1009189sp2.shtml - half the price of the HP. - Half the RAM, half the disk space, slower processor - integrated Intel video, but the x3000 which might be good for an integrated chipset. Has VGA and DVI-I out (not common with integrated video). It is said to support HDCP which is, uh, interesting (surely only under Vista, and yet this system does not come with Vista; might be a lie). Why pay for a discrete card that you are going to toss? - 2 x PCI, PCIe x16, PCIe x1 - WinXP You may have to pay for shipping, i.e. it may not be available in-store. TD sometimes has interesting stuff, but my level of trust isn't high. I have no experience with Gateway products. Refurb is more of a risk (short warranty). For a much lower price, every once in a while, you can get a brand new Athlon 64 system from Dell. But you have to be willing to take their low-end loss-leader. When you configure reasonable extras, the price generally grows disproportionately (who would make a desktop system with 80G hard drives these days??). | > The last three times I've bought a machine off the shelf (or had one made | > to my specs) they cost me around $3,000. I have been looking at Dell | > machines. The starting prices are good but by the time I customize it I was | > up around $2800. More recently, Dell machines price out at a bit over | > $2,000. This HP with its features for only a touch over $1,000 seems like a | > bargain. Prices really have come done. Even more for notebooks than for desktops. For many people, it now makes more sense to buy a "desktop replacement" notebook than a desktop. Very roughly: I used to spend $2500 on computers. Now I spend $700. (Last year I spent most of the difference on a monitor and the necessary video card. That was cutting edge and fun. The price would be perhaps a third lower now.) I think that it is reasonable (not fun) to buy PCs that are not quite cutting edge. It may or may not shave a year off the ultimate life of the machine but it often cuts as much as half off the cost. | > The modem and WiFi I'll probably pull out. I don't need them. The modem is surely a writeoff. The WiFi is probably part of the price you are paying -- the machine should be cheaper without it. | I also need | > to make room for an old SCSI controller card which I still need in order to | > use my scanner. | | Is a scanner that old worth using anymore? We use our SCSI scanner because it can scan legal-size documents. None of the consumer scanners now seem to do that. Kevin might have other reasons. We also have a slide scanner that uses SCSI. It lost Windows support when WinXP came out. Works in Linux. | > This is definitely a plus! This machine is the last machine in the store | > that does not come with Vista. I won't touch Vista. I've read the EULA and | > won't accept it. | | Have you read the one for XP SP2? Which part makes you accept XP SP2 | but not Vista? Although BIOS updates are infrequent from HP, they do happen. And they require MS Windows to install them :-(. Dell seems to make theirs possible to install from DOS. | Intel is generally | quite decent for supporting linux and getting things working. Yes. That makes the most difference in notebooks. Notebook video and wireless are minefields (hard to swap them out!) and Intel seems to be the best bet. But even with Intel you cannot assume compatibility. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 16:54:47 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:54:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linksys NSLU2, anyone? In-Reply-To: <20070418165737.GE5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070417124703.GA17235@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <20070418165737.GE5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | I thought OpenWRT only ran on the early revisions of the 54GS. Is the | WRTSL different than the WRT perhaps? Is it similar to the WRT54GL in | being a linux version again? They haven't produced a nasty cost-reduced version of the WRTSL54GS as far as I know. So it is like the old WRT54GS: twice the flash and RAM of the GL. I don't know why they didn't make the GL like the old GS and charged a bit more. | I think out of those two, the NSLU2 has the better hardware. And having | debian support counts for a lot. OK. I have no basis to compare. I haven't read the spec sheets of either the Intel or Broadcom chips. | Does soldering bits in the unit count as your kind of hacking? Not generally my favourite kind, but I have done it (perhaps not in this millennium). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 18:05:05 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:05:05 -0400 Subject: help analyzing an attack In-Reply-To: <2DDB63F0-79E0-47ED-86F8-C153193B930F-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <9862A95E-8E79-403A-A325-0CEB3ADC57CF@visibleassets.com> <20070418155214.GD5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46263F1F.2070300@utoronto.ca> <20070418165814.GF5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <2DDB63F0-79E0-47ED-86F8-C153193B930F@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420704181105l1d87e3a4qea3a071e0a9d1c3b@mail.gmail.com> On 4/18/07, Dave Cramer wrote: > > > > Using a stupidly easy to guess password? :) > > > Yes, don't ask, the horse is already out of the barn... :( I had this happen to me once, and I also felt stupid. Now I can only ssh into my machine using a key pair--password authentication is completely disabled. You might want to consider that when you get your machine rebuilt. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 18:09:56 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:09:56 -0400 Subject: "Canadian DMCA To Be Introduced This Spring"? In-Reply-To: References: <462426B3.90207@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <1176919796.4848.458.camel@stan64.site> On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 10:10 -0400, Jason Spiro wrote: > On 4/16/07, Meng Cheah wrote: > ... > > "The Hill Times reports this week (issue > > still not online) that the Conservative government will introduce > > copyright reform legislation this spring provided that there is no > > election. The paper points to two main changes from the Liberals Bill > > C-60 - tougher anti-circumvention legislation (ie. DMCA-style laws that > > ban devices that can be used to circumvent as well as provisions that > > block all circumvention subject to the odd exception) and an educational > > exception that will provide for free access to web-based materials. > > > > If this report is true, the bill will be remarkable in its ability > > generate more opposition than any prior copyright bill in Canadian > > history. From a policy perspective, it is a disaster - dangerous and > > unnecessary laws to support DRM and an educational exception that does > > little to address the needs of the education community while encouraging > > even greater use of DRM." ... > > So it sounds like this will be like the Bill C-60 that never got to > second reading when the Paul Martin government fell[1], but worse. > That's scary -- even Bill C-60 was a worrisome piece of legislation. > > Why do governments like to pass such unnecessary laws? Why do a great many people feel obligated to steal stuff? DRM isn't needed if people don't steal. Government is at fault, they need to throw large volume pirates into the pokey and throw away the key. They applied muscle for dishes over the years, and they raid large volume "mod chip" video machine places, but it is harder to raid media/software piracy. If we could throw people into the can for piracy, it would also benifit Linux, as many people have pirate MS OS's and if they have to buy legit , its Linux time!! -tl > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_C-60 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 18:30:51 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:30:51 -0400 Subject: help analyzing an attack In-Reply-To: <7ac602420704181105l1d87e3a4qea3a071e0a9d1c3b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <9862A95E-8E79-403A-A325-0CEB3ADC57CF@visibleassets.com> <20070418155214.GD5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46263F1F.2070300@utoronto.ca> <20070418165814.GF5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <2DDB63F0-79E0-47ED-86F8-C153193B930F@visibleassets.com> <7ac602420704181105l1d87e3a4qea3a071e0a9d1c3b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <462663DB.2020409@utoronto.ca> Ian Petersen wrote: > On 4/18/07, Dave Cramer wrote: >> > >> > Using a stupidly easy to guess password? :) >> > >> Yes, don't ask, the horse is already out of the barn... :( > > I had this happen to me once, and I also felt stupid. Now I can only > ssh into my machine using a key pair--password authentication is > completely disabled. You might want to consider that when you get > your machine rebuilt. > > Ian > Simply moving ssh from port 22 is the easiest and most effective way to avoid *most* attacks. However, security through obscurity, as we all know, is only so resilient to crackers, so passkey auth only is the most effective solution. Also, with the Fedora releases, pretty much 18 months after the release, imagine that your version never happened. It is pretty imperative that you upgrade every 18 months if you want your system to stay secure. If you like fedora, but want security, give centos a try, you'll like it, and they just released version 5 which is pretty nice. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 19:20:02 2007 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:20:02 -0400 Subject: Linksys NSLU2, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <20070417124703.GA17235@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <20070418165737.GE5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880704181220la58846as78098c7fa010dcc2@mail.gmail.com> Hi Guys, I have both a WRT56GSV4 (which is running openWRT) pretty useless unless you use NFS for installing apps. I have 2 SLUGs both work quite well, and over clocking it is as simple as using a Nail Clipper to take a transitor off. I did it it works fine. Using DEBIAN on it.. installed lighthttp, installed nfs server, in stalled Samba shares, ran a web server using apache too. What do you want to run on it? I've also heard you can install gentoo but havent done that.. With Debian Slug you can have more than 2 drives and use USB hubs. On 4/18/07, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > | From: Lennart Sorensen > > | I thought OpenWRT only ran on the early revisions of the 54GS. Is the > | WRTSL different than the WRT perhaps? Is it similar to the WRT54GL in > | being a linux version again? > > They haven't produced a nasty cost-reduced version of the WRTSL54GS as far > as I know. So it is like the old WRT54GS: twice the flash and RAM of > the GL. I don't know why they didn't make the GL like the old GS and > charged a bit more. > > | I think out of those two, the NSLU2 has the better hardware. And having > | debian support counts for a lot. > > OK. I have no basis to compare. I haven't read the spec sheets of > either the Intel or Broadcom chips. > > | Does soldering bits in the unit count as your kind of hacking? > > Not generally my favourite kind, but I have done it (perhaps not in > this millennium). > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 19:23:01 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:23:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: help analyzing an attack In-Reply-To: <866CEA0E-88BF-4F04-B36E-37056482A911-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <1176902542.26520.59.camel@jshein> <866CEA0E-88BF-4F04-B36E-37056482A911@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Apr 2007, Dave Cramer wrote: > Well, rootkit hunter returns too many connections on their mysql box. :( > > chkrootkit doesn't find anything www.chkrootkit.org eventually came up for me but it is slow at the moment. Hint: don't accept a copy of chkrootkit (or any other software for that matter) from an untrusted source. I always pull it down from the home site an examine the signature (yeah they could both be compromised but at some point we need to trust something). Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 19:26:18 2007 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:26:18 -0400 Subject: Intrested in asterisks any ideas on prices? Message-ID: <32f6a8880704181226u57daf96ancead0eb4ac9b9d6c@mail.gmail.com> Hi Guys, I'm interested in using Asterisks(just for hacking around) on my Router using OPENWRT. Does anyone know of any cheap prices for phones and hardware, as well as providers? Is this even worth trying out? I may also use my SLUG :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 18:30:18 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:30:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: "Canadian DMCA To Be Introduced This Spring"? In-Reply-To: <1176919796.4848.458.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <462426B3.90207@pppoe.ca> <1176919796.4848.458.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: | From: tleslie | Why do a great many people feel obligated to steal stuff? I think that the word "steal" is inappropriate when talking about contravention of Intellectual Monopoly. "Steal" is a concept that fits things that you lose when someone else gets them. | DRM isn't needed if people don't steal. See above. I think that I would agree with the idea of DRM if it was not used to take away rights that I previously had. DRM is not about enforcing traditional copyright, it is about give much more control (strict and fine-grained) to the publisher (not even the creator). | Government is at fault, they need to throw large volume pirates | into the pokey and throw away the key. | They applied muscle for dishes over the years, and they raid | large volume "mod chip" video machine places, but it is harder | to raid media/software piracy. If I had a mainstream game console, I would like a mod chip in it (or the software equivalent). It is a necessary precursor to running Linux. I generally observe copyright and patent laws. But if I own a piece of hardware, I want it to be working for me, not against me. I would not run a game or other software that I hadn't properly licensed. But I want the freedom to do my own things with my physical devices. There are a number of bits of software that I won't used because of the license terms, not because of the price. | If we could throw people into the can for piracy, it would also | benifit Linux, as many people have pirate MS OS's and if they | have to buy legit , its Linux time!! I agree. Microsoft uses piracy as a form of price discrimination. Very effective in developing their monopoly. I'm sure that at some points it was intentional. Probably not so any more in the developed world -- they are suffering from market saturation and would like to eke out any additional revenue they can. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 19:31:23 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:31:23 -0400 Subject: Intrested in asterisks any ideas on prices? Message-ID: You should ask this on the TAUG list. That's the toronto asterisk user group. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Germiquet" [davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org] Sent: 18/04/2007 03:26 PM AST To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Intrested in asterisks any ideas on prices? Hi Guys, I'm interested in using Asterisks(just for hacking around) on my Router using OPENWRT. Does anyone know of any cheap prices for phones and hardware, as well as providers? Is this even worth trying out? I may also use my SLUG :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 21:23:40 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:23:40 -0400 Subject: Intrested in asterisks any ideas on prices? In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880704181226u57daf96ancead0eb4ac9b9d6c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880704181226u57daf96ancead0eb4ac9b9d6c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008701c781ff$d6982fd0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> You can get a cheap ip phone on ebay for 50$ CDn. To hack around you can use an one of a number of software phones or even msn messenger. I don't recommend playing with it on a router. Get a PC and use http://www.asterisknow.org _____ From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Dave Germiquet Sent: April 18, 2007 3:26 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Intrested in asterisks any ideas on prices? Hi Guys, I'm interested in using Asterisks(just for hacking around) on my Router using OPENWRT. Does anyone know of any cheap prices for phones and hardware, as well as providers? Is this even worth trying out? I may also use my SLUG :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 22:19:01 2007 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:19:01 -0400 Subject: Intrested in asterisks any ideas on prices? In-Reply-To: <008701c781ff$d6982fd0$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880704181226u57daf96ancead0eb4ac9b9d6c@mail.gmail.com> <008701c781ff$d6982fd0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880704181519x6ea9c7cdie2d1478c79aaeba2@mail.gmail.com> Hmm.. I can use MSN messenger? Are you serious? I'll google on that.. On 4/18/07, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > You can get a cheap ip phone on ebay for 50$ CDn. To hack around you can > use an one of a number of software phones or even msn messenger. > > I don't recommend playing with it on a router. Get a PC and use > http://www.asterisknow.org > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] *On Behalf Of *Dave > Germiquet > *Sent:* April 18, 2007 3:26 PM > *To:* tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > *Subject:* [TLUG]: Intrested in asterisks any ideas on prices? > > > > Hi Guys, > > I'm interested in using Asterisks(just for hacking around) on my Router > using OPENWRT. Does anyone know of any cheap prices for phones and hardware, > as well as providers? > > Is this even worth trying out? > > I may also use my SLUG :) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 18 23:03:37 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:03:37 -0400 Subject: Intrested in asterisks any ideas on prices? In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880704181519x6ea9c7cdie2d1478c79aaeba2-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880704181226u57daf96ancead0eb4ac9b9d6c@mail.gmail.com> <008701c781ff$d6982fd0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <32f6a8880704181519x6ea9c7cdie2d1478c79aaeba2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001c01c7820d$ccc22610$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Yea. That was my sandbox before I went live. Any sip compliant software or hardware. I use cheap ip phones. _____ From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Dave Germiquet Sent: April 18, 2007 6:19 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Intrested in asterisks any ideas on prices? Hmm.. I can use MSN messenger? Are you serious? I'll google on that.. On 4/18/07, Ansar Mohammed > wrote: You can get a cheap ip phone on ebay for 50$ CDn. To hack around you can use an one of a number of software phones or even msn messenger. I don't recommend playing with it on a router. Get a PC and use http://www.asterisknow.org _____ From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org ] On Behalf Of Dave Germiquet Sent: April 18, 2007 3:26 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Intrested in asterisks any ideas on prices? Hi Guys, I'm interested in using Asterisks(just for hacking around) on my Router using OPENWRT. Does anyone know of any cheap prices for phones and hardware, as well as providers? Is this even worth trying out? I may also use my SLUG :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 19 15:45:24 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:45:24 +0000 Subject: Intrested in asterisks any ideas on prices? In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880704181226u57daf96ancead0eb4ac9b9d6c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880704181226u57daf96ancead0eb4ac9b9d6c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 4/18/07, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I'm interested in using Asterisks(just for hacking around) on my Router > using OPENWRT. Does anyone know of any cheap prices for phones and hardware, > as well as providers? > > Is this even worth trying out? > > I may also use my SLUG :) http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Asterisk+Canadian+Users Apparently Unlimitel.ca gets pretty highly recommended as a VoIP service provider... For hardware, see: http://www.voipdepot.ca/ http://www.voipgizmos.com/ http://www.voipstorecanada.ca/catalog/ http://voipware.ca/en-ca/index.php -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 19 18:29:30 2007 From: taa-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:29:30 -0300 (ADT) Subject: Job Posting: Linux System Administrator Message-ID: Hi guys, Our company is growing, the number of servers is growing, and we have an opening for a sysadmin. We are the largest customer of Rogers in Atlantic Canada in terms of bandwidth. We have over 100 Linux servers and expect to grow to over 200 very soon. The full job description is posted on our corporate site at: http://www.itinteractiveservices.com/node/13 We also have a number of R&D and Operations positions for starting immediately or in the near future. All are posted on the site. I'd be happy to answer any general questions on or off the list. Cheers, TAA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tony Abou-Assaleh Director of Research and Development GenieKnows.com IT Interactive Services Inc. Voice: (902)-431-4847 Ext 156 Fax: (902)-431-4848 Email: taa-D3zMUlhP5N+XSf5tG21kQg at public.gmane.org --------------------------------[THE END]------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 19 19:07:08 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:07:08 -0400 Subject: Job Posting: Linux System Administrator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070419190708.GG28318@watson-wilson.ca> On Thu, Apr 19, 2007 at 03:29:30PM -0300, Tony Abou-Assaleh wrote: >Our company is growing, the number of servers is growing, and we have an >opening for a sysadmin. This being the Toronto Linux Users Group you might have mentioned that the position is in Halifax. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 51 days http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 19 19:46:39 2007 From: tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:46:39 -0400 Subject: Job Posting: Linux System Administrator In-Reply-To: <20070419190708.GG28318-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070419190708.GG28318@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070419194639.GA3998@thecat.localnet> On Thu, Apr 19, 2007 at 03:07:08PM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > On Thu, Apr 19, 2007 at 03:29:30PM -0300, Tony Abou-Assaleh wrote: > >Our company is growing, the number of servers is growing, and we have an > >opening for a sysadmin. > > This being the Toronto Linux Users Group you might have mentioned that > the position is in Halifax. Well, at least he did mention "We are the largest customer of Rogers in Atlantic Canada". :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 19 22:02:57 2007 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:02:57 -0400 Subject: Job Posting: Linux System Administrator In-Reply-To: <20070419190708.GG28318-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20070419190708.GG28318@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20070419220257.GN2899@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Thu, Apr 19, 2007 at 03:07:08PM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > On Thu, Apr 19, 2007 at 03:29:30PM -0300, Tony Abou-Assaleh wrote: > >Our company is growing, the number of servers is growing, and we have an > >opening for a sysadmin. > > This being the Toronto Linux Users Group you might have mentioned that > the position is in Halifax. I sort of guessed that "the largest customer of Rogers in Atlantic Canada" was unlikely to be based in Toronto. :-) The area code on the phone number was a second clue. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 19 22:04:51 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:04:51 -0400 Subject: Will Linux run on an HP m7680n? In-Reply-To: References: <4624F962.8080108@ve3syb.ca> <200704171648.30118.mervc@eol.ca> <4625A0F7.9040105@ve3syb.ca> <20070418153438.GC5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070419220451.GG5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 12:43:01PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I've had behaviour "above expectations" from eMachines. Inexpensive, > little support, work OK. > > But maybe I'm not critical enough. I like my consumer HP boxes better > than eMachines. In fact, I like my HP boxes a lot because they seem > to work, are cheap, and are quieter than any boxes that I've built. Well my wife's Compaq R3240 had the power connector break, the case on the back of the screen has huge long cracks in it, the cover on the dvd drive is falling off, and it is about 2.5 years old and has been treated very gently. The HP PSC1350 printer-all-in-one, will usually print a page or two before going into it's 'error' mode where only unplugging it from the wall and plugging it back in again will get it restored (and of course the windows drivers require a reboot to even attempt another page). My sister had a P3 733 HP machine, which was also a piece of junk, although reasonably reliable. When I build a machine, I use an Asus motherboard. My wife now has an Asus laptop. I hope it does as well as their mainboards have done for the last 15 years that I have been using them. > I buy machines very opportunistically. My current (HP) desktop turns out > to have been a Staples price error. My previous (HP) desktop was a > "debranded" refurb from Computer Warehouse Outlet (since renamed) at a > ridiculously low price. All my eMachines were Boxing Day specials at > Future Shop, except for the one I just got by catching it before it > would have been crunched at a City of Toronto Environment Day. > > Here is an apparently interesting deal on now if you want a Core 2 Duo > system: refurb Gateway, cheap, at Tiger Direct. > > http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=2912886&sku=G153-GT5238E > http://support.gateway.com/s/PC/R/1009189/1009189sp2.shtml > > - half the price of the HP. > > - Half the RAM, half the disk space, slower processor > > - integrated Intel video, but the x3000 which might be good for an > integrated chipset. Has VGA and DVI-I out (not common with > integrated video). It is said to support HDCP which is, uh, > interesting (surely only under Vista, and yet this system does not > come with Vista; might be a lie). Why pay for a discrete card that > you are going to toss? > > - 2 x PCI, PCIe x16, PCIe x1 > > - WinXP > > You may have to pay for shipping, i.e. it may not be available > in-store. > > TD sometimes has interesting stuff, but my level of trust isn't high. > > I have no experience with Gateway products. Refurb is more of a risk > (short warranty). > > For a much lower price, every once in a while, you can get a brand new > Athlon 64 system from Dell. But you have to be willing to take their > low-end loss-leader. When you configure reasonable extras, the price > generally grows disproportionately (who would make a desktop system > with 80G hard drives these days??). Dell likes cutting corners I would never want cut on those machines. Of course I don't think expecting a machine to still work perfectly in 5 or even 10 years is unreasonable (I still have a 486/66 in use as a file server and firewall after 15 years. Damn reliable box.) I am willing to spend 25% more if it is going to last twice as long, and have less problems during its lifetime. Almost every single time I have gone for something cheap, I have been burned and very disappointed. Maybe that is just because I expect perfection and nothing less. > Prices really have come done. Even more for notebooks than for > desktops. For many people, it now makes more sense to buy a "desktop > replacement" notebook than a desktop. > > Very roughly: I used to spend $2500 on computers. Now I spend $700. > (Last year I spent most of the difference on a monitor and the > necessary video card. That was cutting edge and fun. The price > would be perhaps a third lower now.) I seem to have always used mostly leftovers from my farther's CAD system upgrades. Lucky me. :) Add a couple of new bits to the leftovers, and perfectly good high quality system, that is only 5 years or so out of date. Perfect for Linux of course. > I think that it is reasonable (not fun) to buy PCs that are not quite > cutting edge. It may or may not shave a year off the ultimate life of > the machine but it often cuts as much as half off the cost. > > The modem is surely a writeoff. The WiFi is probably part of the > price you are paying -- the machine should be cheaper without it. > > We use our SCSI scanner because it can scan legal-size documents. None > of the consumer scanners now seem to do that. Kevin might have other > reasons. Yeah legal isn't part of the consumer worlds it seems. > We also have a slide scanner that uses SCSI. It lost Windows support > when WinXP came out. Works in Linux. I guess that makes some sense. > Although BIOS updates are infrequent from HP, they do happen. And > they require MS Windows to install them :-(. Dell seems to make > theirs possible to install from DOS. Asus just requires it to be on a CD or floppy and the BIOS takes care of the rest. Totally OS independant. > Yes. That makes the most difference in notebooks. Notebook video and > wireless are minefields (hard to swap them out!) and Intel seems to be > the best bet. But even with Intel you cannot assume compatibility. True, but intel does seem to usually make it work with linux fairly soon after release. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 19 22:06:35 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:06:35 -0400 Subject: Linksys NSLU2, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <20070417124703.GA17235@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <20070418165737.GE5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070419220635.GH5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 12:54:47PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > They haven't produced a nasty cost-reduced version of the WRTSL54GS as far > as I know. So it is like the old WRT54GS: twice the flash and RAM of > the GL. I don't know why they didn't make the GL like the old GS and > charged a bit more. Well I hadn't seen the WRTSL54GS before, only the WRT54GS which I knew had been cut down at some point. > OK. I have no basis to compare. I haven't read the spec sheets of > either the Intel or Broadcom chips. I highly doubt you will ever see the spec sheets of the broadcom. :) > Not generally my favourite kind, but I have done it (perhaps not in > this millennium). Well there are people that have made the NSLU2 have 64 or 128MB ram by doing some soldering. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 20 06:19:23 2007 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 02:19:23 -0400 Subject: Do you still need volunteers for the IT360 show? Message-ID: Dear TLUG members, I am interested in volunteering at IT360 this year. I will be free throughout Monday and Tuesday (I've just finished exams and I have yet to find a Unix training-related summer job.) I don't know any TLUG members in person, only through the list, but I have some trade show experience: I helped run the York University Computer Club booth at the Canadian Undergraduate Technology Conference a few years ago, and things went well. Are you still looking for TLUG booth volunteers? Would you be interested in having me and/or a Linux enthusiast friend or two of mine as volunteers? Also, for future reference: Do volunteers get to attend any of the conference events? I'd love to hear maddog and/or Don Tapscott speak if I could. If you reply, please Reply to All. Cheers, Jason Spiro Computer programming student, Seneca College -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I provide software development and training services to clients worldwide. Contact me for a FREE consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. +1 (416) 781-5938 / Email: info-1hdvTAswZAHQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org / MSN: jasonspiro-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 20 16:07:01 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 12:07:01 -0400 Subject: help analyzing an attack In-Reply-To: <7ac602420704181105l1d87e3a4qea3a071e0a9d1c3b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <9862A95E-8E79-403A-A325-0CEB3ADC57CF@visibleassets.com> <20070418155214.GD5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46263F1F.2070300@utoronto.ca> <20070418165814.GF5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <2DDB63F0-79E0-47ED-86F8-C153193B930F@visibleassets.com> <7ac602420704181105l1d87e3a4qea3a071e0a9d1c3b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4628E525.9030006@utoronto.ca> Ian Petersen wrote: > On 4/18/07, Dave Cramer wrote: >> > >> > Using a stupidly easy to guess password? :) >> > >> Yes, don't ask, the horse is already out of the barn... :( > > I had this happen to me once, and I also felt stupid. Now I can only > ssh into my machine using a key pair--password authentication is > completely disabled. You might want to consider that when you get > your machine rebuilt. If I'm not mistaken one can require both: key-pair AND password authentication. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 20 16:14:35 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 12:13:35 -0401 Subject: help analyzing an attack In-Reply-To: <4628E525.9030006-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <9862A95E-8E79-403A-A325-0CEB3ADC57CF@visibleassets.com> <20070418155214.GD5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46263F1F.2070300@utoronto.ca> <20070418165814.GF5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <2DDB63F0-79E0-47ED-86F8-C153193B930F@visibleassets.com> <7ac602420704181105l1d87e3a4qea3a071e0a9d1c3b@mail.gmail.com> <4628E525.9030006@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420704200914q5b460f15w64b5591dbe7f45f1@mail.gmail.com> On 4/20/07, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > If I'm not mistaken one can require both: key-pair AND password > authentication. I could be wrong, but I think that's done when you create the key-pair. I'm lazy, so my key-pair is not password protected, but the ssh-keygen command asks for a password and admonishes you if it's blank. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 20 23:08:14 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 19:08:14 -0400 Subject: Conservative MP Introduces 'Clean Internet Act' Message-ID: <462947DE.1070804@pppoe.ca> http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/1884/125/ "Conservative MP Joy Smith yesterday introduced the Clean Internet Act (Bill C-427) . The private member's bill would establish an Internet service provider licensing system to be administered by the CRTC along with "know your subscriber" requirements and content blocking powers. Just about everything associated with this bill is (to be charitable) rather odd. Smith introduced it by warning against the use of the Internet to support human trafficking and added that "the bill would address the fact that child pornography is not okay to put on the Internet throughout our nation," though the Criminal Code already does that. The bill itself includes (and I am not making this up): * an ISP licensing system to be administered by the CRTC that is defined so broadly that it would seemingly capture anyone offering a wifi connection * a "know your subscriber" requirement where ISPs would be required to deny service to past offenders (though the ISP would escape liability if upon learning of an offending customer, it terminated service and notified the Minister of Industry) * a new power that would allow the Minister of Industry to order an ISP to block access to content that promotes violence against women, promotes hatred, or contains child pornography. ISPs that fail to block face possible jail time for the company's directors and officers. * the Minister of Industry can prescribe special powers to facilitate searches of electronic data systems (ie. lawful access)" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 20 23:33:13 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 19:33:13 -0400 Subject: Conservative MP Introduces 'Clean Internet Act' In-Reply-To: <462947DE.1070804-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <462947DE.1070804@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: Why they would not provide evidence that the steps they propose to fight the "crime" are justified somehow in a well documented statistics of crime? Well, I never ever saw a well documented, publicly available and discussed statistics of that kind. zb. On 4/20/07, Meng Cheah wrote: > > http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/1884/125/ > > "Conservative MP Joy Smith yesterday > introduced > < > http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=39&Ses=1&DocId=2842428#SOB-2010623 > > > the Clean Internet Act (Bill C-427) > < > http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&Parl=39&Ses=1&Mode=1&Pub=Bill&Doc=C-427_1&File=24#1 > >. > The private member's bill would establish an Internet service provider > licensing system to be administered by the CRTC along with "know your > subscriber" requirements and content blocking powers. Just about > everything associated with this bill is (to be charitable) rather odd. > Smith introduced it by warning against the use of the Internet to > support human trafficking and added that "the bill would address the > fact that child pornography is not okay to put on the Internet > throughout our nation," though the Criminal Code already does that. > > The bill itself includes (and I am not making this up): > > * an ISP licensing system to be administered by the CRTC that is > defined so broadly that it would seemingly capture anyone offering > a wifi connection > * a "know your subscriber" requirement where ISPs would be required > to deny service to past offenders (though the ISP would escape > liability if upon learning of an offending customer, it terminated > service and notified the Minister of Industry) > * a new power that would allow the Minister of Industry to order an > ISP to block access to content that promotes violence against > women, promotes hatred, or contains child pornography. ISPs that > fail to block face possible jail time for the company's directors > and officers. > * the Minister of Industry can prescribe special powers to > facilitate searches of electronic data systems (ie. lawful access)" > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 21 13:31:48 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:31:48 -0400 Subject: Getting Feisty Message-ID: <462A1244.4080703@telly.org> Well, it took about 36 hours but I was finally able to do the 'online' upgrade of Kubuntu from 6.10 ("edgy") to the newly released 7.04 ("feisty") on my laptop. It's not a process I'd recommend to the impatient, or those who want to know what's going on. I expected Ubuntu servers to be really busy on the first day of release, but there were a few surprises. 1) Upgrades, apparently, can only be done online, and not from a CDROM. This means that the benefits of bittorrent, that would be really helpful at high-download times, are lost to upgraders. (update: apparently this is now possible but you need to download the "alternate" CDROM and the process is a little tougher for KDE users.) 2) The Canadian download server seems to have really low capacity, which hurts because you can't choose what server to use for the initial upgrade. No menu choices; it picks one for you and that's it. My upgrade process crashed six times because the Canadian server would simply refuse connections at various points through the days. Once the core upgrade is complete, you can choose a different country repository and things work more normally. For this reaso I would suggest purging your system of large non-essential packages before doing the upgrade, them come back and install them later when you can choose the best repository. 3) Every time you restart the upgrade system after a crash, it has to re-download a whole bunch of initial files. While the main software .deb files are cached once you get going, about 15-20 minutes of downloading has to be redone every time you start the install process, even if it just stopped on you. On the good side, if it crashes midway through a download of a file, the system can recover the partial download and pick up where it left off. Visually things are a little different, but there's little that's earth shattering. It's nice to be up to OpenOffice 2.2 and the newest KDE. Some icons such as network and battery status are different. But this is certainly more of an incremental bump than a major shift in anything. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 21 14:32:11 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:32:11 -0400 Subject: Getting Feisty In-Reply-To: <462A1244.4080703-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <462A1244.4080703@telly.org> Message-ID: <462A206B.10704@utoronto.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Well, it took about 36 hours but I was finally able to do the 'online' > upgrade of Kubuntu from 6.10 ("edgy") to the newly released 7.04 > ("feisty") on my laptop. > > It's not a process I'd recommend to the impatient, or those who want to > know what's going on. I expected Ubuntu servers to be really busy on the > first day of release, but there were a few surprises. > > 1) Upgrades, apparently, can only be done online, and not from a CDROM. > This means that the benefits of bittorrent, that would be really helpful > at high-download times, are lost to upgraders. (update: apparently this > is now possible but you need to download the "alternate" CDROM and the > process is a little tougher for KDE users.) > > 2) The Canadian download server seems to have really low capacity, which > hurts because you can't choose what server to use for the initial > upgrade. No menu choices; it picks one for you and that's it. My upgrade > process crashed six times because the Canadian server would simply > refuse connections at various points through the days. Once the core > upgrade is complete, you can choose a different country repository and > things work more normally. For this reaso I would suggest purging your > system of large non-essential packages before doing the upgrade, them > come back and install them later when you can choose the best repository. > > 3) Every time you restart the upgrade system after a crash, it has to > re-download a whole bunch of initial files. While the main software .deb > files are cached once you get going, about 15-20 minutes of downloading > has to be redone every time you start the install process, even if it > just stopped on you. On the good side, if it crashes midway through a > download of a file, the system can recover the partial download and pick > up where it left off. > > Visually things are a little different, but there's little that's earth > shattering. It's nice to be up to OpenOffice 2.2 and the newest KDE. > Some icons such as network and battery status are different. But this is > certainly more of an incremental bump than a major shift in anything. deb http://debian.yorku.ca/ubuntu main restricted universe multiverse deb-src http://debian.yorku.ca/ubuntu main restricted universe multiverse Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 21 14:40:00 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:40:00 -0400 Subject: Getting Feisty In-Reply-To: <462A206B.10704-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <462A1244.4080703@telly.org> <462A206B.10704@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <462A2240.5000101@telly.org> Jamon Camisso wrote: > deb http://debian.yorku.ca/ubuntu main restricted universe multiverse > deb-src http://debian.yorku.ca/ubuntu main restricted universe multiverse Is this private to TLUG members? There are no Canadian mirrors listed at Ubuntu central, and this isn't mentioned at the Ubuntu Canada website. I just don't want to spread the word about this too far if York doesn't want that. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 21 14:40:32 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:40:32 -0400 Subject: Getting Feisty In-Reply-To: <462A206B.10704-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <462A1244.4080703@telly.org> <462A206B.10704@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <462A2260.4000903@telly.org> Jamon Camisso wrote: > deb http://debian.yorku.ca/ubuntu main restricted universe multiverse > deb-src http://debian.yorku.ca/ubuntu main restricted universe multiverse Thanks for the link -- but is this private to TLUG members? There are no Canadian mirrors listed at Ubuntu central, and this isn't mentioned at the Ubuntu Canada website. I just don't want to spread the word about this too far if York doesn't want that. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 21 14:46:34 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:46:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: pcHDTV HD-5500 Message-ID: <390910.29807.qm@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I am looking at upgrades to my MythTV box, and one of the topics I am looking at is getting an HDTV card. In particular I am interested in the pcHDTV HD-5500 PCI tuner card (which does support Linux (in fact Windows is not officially supported :-) ) . So, I have some questions: - Anyone with experience using this card locally? - Anyone know of a local source for this card (I have yet to find one)? - Would there be any interest in putting together a bulk order with several people getting together in order to get a volume discount on these cards? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 21 14:52:42 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:52:42 -0400 Subject: Getting Feisty In-Reply-To: <462A2260.4000903-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <462A1244.4080703@telly.org> <462A206B.10704@utoronto.ca> <462A2260.4000903@telly.org> Message-ID: <462A253A.7020100@utoronto.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: >> deb http://debian.yorku.ca/ubuntu main restricted universe multiverse >> deb-src http://debian.yorku.ca/ubuntu main restricted universe multiverse > Thanks for the link -- but is this private to TLUG members? > > There are no Canadian mirrors listed at Ubuntu central, and this isn't > mentioned at the Ubuntu Canada website. > > I just don't want to spread the word about this too far if York doesn't > want that. Well, for any Debian install, that is the primary Canadian mirror that any installer I've used recently uses. I'd assume that since the mirror is not more than 1 day out of sync with the primary mirrors for Ubuntu patches etc., that someone is maintaining it. The Ubuntu portion of the server was down for 2 or three days last fall for some reason, some thought it was gone, so who knows what the policy is. The Debian portion isn't going away anytime soon though, so I'd imagine both will stay online for a good long while. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 21 16:28:43 2007 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 00:28:43 +0800 (PHT) Subject: OT: network routing information Message-ID: <1209.202.175.226.99.1177172923.squirrel@webmail.gmanmi.tv> hi, i need to understand how a provider routes data via its different transits, a provider is telling me that most internet providers route traffic via TCP only.. and not like their service they are routing traffic to their different transits based on a lot of things.. latency, network availability etc.. tia, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ndavey3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 21 22:25:20 2007 From: ndavey3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Nick Davey) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 18:25:20 -0400 Subject: OT: network routing information In-Reply-To: <1209.202.175.226.99.1177172923.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2aFdZzb36Jg/IbXMQ5te18@public.gmane.org> References: <1209.202.175.226.99.1177172923.squirrel@webmail.gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <99e6b2860704211525i3c8bb11er81f46dc173e32ab6@mail.gmail.com> Providers will route to their transit providers based on any number of reasons, including local policy of whether traffic should be passed to the best path or the closest exit point, monetary cost, or even load balanced across several connections. Some providers such as tech savvy even work it into their packages, paying more for the transit provider that has a better connection. This statement is far too ambiguous tho: a provider is telling me that most internet providers route > traffic via TCP only. > Hope that helps, Nick On 4/21/07, jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org wrote: > > hi, > > i need to understand how a provider routes data via its different > transits, a provider is telling me that most internet providers route > traffic via TCP only.. > > and not like their service they are routing traffic to their different > transits based on a lot of things.. latency, network availability etc.. > > tia, > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 22 01:01:03 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 21:01:03 -0400 Subject: OT: network routing information In-Reply-To: <1209.202.175.226.99.1177172923.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2aFdZzb36Jg/IbXMQ5te18@public.gmane.org> References: <1209.202.175.226.99.1177172923.squirrel@webmail.gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <462AB3CF.3060903@rogers.com> jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org wrote: > hi, > > i need to understand how a provider routes data via its different > transits, a provider is telling me that most internet providers route > traffic via TCP only.. > > and not like their service they are routing traffic to their different > transits based on a lot of things.. latency, network availability etc.. > > tia, > > As for routing, it would be IP, not TCP that's used for routing. There are other routable protocols, such as IPX, but they wouldn't be used for the internet. I'm not sure if I understand your question, but I think you're asking about quality of service issues. If so, you generally can't count on them for use on the public internet. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 22 01:29:31 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 21:29:31 -0400 Subject: Xubuntu pre-install questions Message-ID: <20070422012931.GA5285@waltdnes.org> My main machine is an AMD running Gentoo. My 1999 Dell 450mhz, PIII, with 128 megs of ram isn't being used for much now, so I figure I'll give Xubuntu a test drive. The harddrive is 41 gigs. I intend to wipe it and install fresh. My current "three partitions" strategy is... - 10 gigs for / - a swap partition - the rest is /home. Any odds-and-ends that don't belong to a specific account go into /home/misc My questions are... 1) What is the recommended size for /, assuming I install "the works"? 2) What is the recommended size for the swap partition? 3) What is the recommended filesystem? (ext3fs, reiserfs, whatever) Any helpful pre-install hints would be appreciated. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 22 02:10:14 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 22:10:14 -0400 Subject: Xubuntu pre-install questions In-Reply-To: <20070422012931.GA5285-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070422012931.GA5285@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <7ac602420704211910p24466853ia7fc1dec9c76244b@mail.gmail.com> On 4/21/07, Walter Dnes wrote: > - 10 gigs for / > - a swap partition > - the rest is /home. Any odds-and-ends that don't belong to a specific > account go into /home/misc > > My questions are... > 1) What is the recommended size for /, assuming I install "the works"? > 2) What is the recommended size for the swap partition? > 3) What is the recommended filesystem? (ext3fs, reiserfs, whatever) > > Any helpful pre-install hints would be appreciated. My system at home has a 2 Gig / and everything else is on LVM volumes. When I say everything else, I mean /home, /opt, /tmp, /usr, /var, etc. I find this setup to be very flexible. I leave /bin and /sbin on the same partition that holds / so I can boot to a mostly-usable system even without LVM. As for a swap partition, I'd recommend using a swap file instead. In 2.6 kernels the speed difference between swap partitions and swap files is negligble to non-existant but swap files are much more flexible because you can add and remove them as you see fit. Regarding filesystems, I'm partial to ReiserFS, but I hear that version 3 (the only stable version) is basically in maintenance mode and that there are some fundamental problems with it. (I don't remember the details but SuSE, who used to use ReiserFS by default, has switched away from it.) I think ext3 is the standard these days. I think both ext3 and ReiserFS can be resized while the filesystem is mounted, which is a big boon if you're using LVM and want to resize one of your logical partitions. One caveat is that the system I'm describing is Gentoo, so most of the user-ish binaries end up in /usr/bin so I'm not really at risk of running out of space on /. I don't know where Xubuntu puts things so you may need a bigger / partition. I'd expect both distros to mostly adhere to the filesystem hierarchy standard, though, so I'd just go ahead with 2 Gigs if it were me. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 22 03:31:38 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 23:31:38 -0400 Subject: Knemo versus Knetworkmanager Message-ID: <462AD71A.3040202@telly.org> Hello to all you KDE users out there. One of the first thing I noticed when booting into my newly updated Kubuntu was that my panel now has icons for both Knemo and Knetworkmanager. Both are trying to tell me the status of my networking; this seems a little redundant. What are KDE users here using to configure and monitor their network interfaces? KNemo or Knetworkmanager? This instance is on a laptop, so being able to turn on/off the wireless and search/connect-to hotspots is important. Thanks! - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 22 03:44:23 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 23:44:23 -0400 Subject: Xubuntu pre-install questions In-Reply-To: <7ac602420704211910p24466853ia7fc1dec9c76244b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070422012931.GA5285@waltdnes.org> <7ac602420704211910p24466853ia7fc1dec9c76244b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <22e435080704212044y701d5a4chabda128a58a2f1f4@mail.gmail.com> On 4/21/07, Ian Petersen wrote: > > Regarding filesystems, I'm partial to ReiserFS, but I hear that > version 3 (the only stable version) is basically in maintenance mode > and that there are some fundamental problems with it. (I don't > remember the details but SuSE, who used to use ReiserFS by default, > has switched away from it.) I think ext3 is the standard these days. > The details are Novell was concerned b/c Hans Reiser was charged with the murder of his wife. Once upon a time I very much preferred reiserfs for general purpose servers. I guess this discussion is all academic now anyways b/c zfs is the future right ... damn I am such a sun fanboy. SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jab-76OBl6+JcyzDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 22 04:07:58 2007 From: jab-76OBl6+JcyzDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Jeremy Baker) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 00:07:58 -0400 Subject: Knemo versus Knetworkmanager In-Reply-To: <462AD71A.3040202-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <462AD71A.3040202@telly.org> Message-ID: <200704220007.58528.jab@muskokatech.ca> On April 21, 2007 11:31:38 pm Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hello to all you KDE users out there. > > One of the first thing I noticed when booting into my newly updated > Kubuntu was that my panel now has icons for both Knemo and > Knetworkmanager. Both are trying to tell me the status of my networking; > this seems a little redundant. > > What are KDE users here using to configure and monitor their network > interfaces? KNemo or Knetworkmanager? This instance is on a laptop, so > being able to turn on/off the wireless and search/connect-to hotspots is > important. > > Thanks! > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists I use knetworkmanager to configure my network interfaces. Any monitoring that it is capable of is in my opinion a secondary function. It does a pretty good job of connecting me to known wireless networks, and seemlessly switches me to wired if it is plugged in. After a quick glance at the knemo web page, it appears to be primarily a monitoring application. I use gkrellm for monitoring so I have not tried knemo. -- Jeremy Baker GnuPGP fingerprint = EE66 AC49 E008 E09A 7A2A ?0195 50EF 580B EDBB 95B6 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 22 11:27:02 2007 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 07:27:02 -0400 Subject: Conservative MP Introduces 'Clean Internet Act' In-Reply-To: References: <462947DE.1070804@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <462B0E46.12138.66C60DB@sciguy.vex.net> That's because it is not intended to fight crime. It is intended to invade our privacy. The rhetoric in recent years to "fight crime before it happens" means to use police state measures and to hold everyone, including past offenders, as guilty before being proven innocent. In most free countries, it is the other way around. This snooping law, like all snooping laws, is purported to be a surveillance of past offenders. But to know if a past offender is gaining internet access, what they really have to do is to examine the registrations, messages, and other traffic of the rest of us as well. Laws like this, like all laws that allow snooping of our internet traffic without warrant, is a law against everybody, not just a law against repeat offenders. I find it difficult for anyone to say that the police are only looking at repeat offenders, or foreign terrorists, since it is so difficult *not* to look at all of the traffic -- since it is all nothing more than a fishing expedition for cops anyway. Even past offenders -- if they have been punished for their crimes, then I feel they have a right to be left alone. If punishment is not enough for them to learn their lesson, then I have to say that that is a failure of the prison system and justice system, since it is supposed to act as a deterrent. If we accept that the justice system works, then we also accept that people outside of prison have a right to be left alone. If we accept that "offenders never change", then we allow the concept of "guilty until proven innocent" to be tolerable in a free society. If it becomes acceptable to treat repeat offenders in this fashion, then it becomes acceptable to treat the rest of us in the same way. We are all guilty of something. All that is left is for the police to find out what we are guilty of. Would you want to live in a country like that? Paul King > > Why they would not provide evidence that the steps they propose to fight the > "crime" are justified somehow in a well documented statistics of crime? Well, I > never ever saw a well documented, publicly available and discussed statistics of > that kind. > > zb. > > > On 4/20/07, Meng Cheah wrote: > http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/1884/125/ > > "Conservative MP Joy Smith yesterday > introduced > &Par l=39&Ses=1&DocId=2842428#SOB-2010623 > the Clean Internet Act (Bill > C-427) > 9&Se s=1&Mode=1&Pub=Bill&Doc=C-427_1&File=24#1 >. The private member's bill > would establish an Internet service provider licensing system to be > administered by the CRTC along with "know your subscriber" requirements and > content blocking powers.Just about everything associated with this bill is > (to be charitable) rather odd. Smith introduced it by warning against the > use of the Internet to support human trafficking and added that "the bill > would address the fact that child pornography is not okay to put on the > Internet throughout our nation," though the Criminal Code already does that. > > The bill itself includes (and I am not making this up): > > * an ISP licensing system to be administered by the CRTC that is > defined so broadly that it would seemingly capture anyone offering > a wifi connection > * a "know your subscriber" requirement where ISPs would be required > to deny service to past offenders (though the ISP would escape > liability if upon learning of an offending customer, it terminated > service and notified the Minister of Industry) > * a new power that would allow the Minister of Industry to order an > ISP to block access to content that promotes violence against > women, promotes hatred, or contains child pornography.ISPs that > fail to block face possible jail time for the company's directors > and officers. > * the Minister of Industry can prescribe special powers to > facilitate searches of electronic data systems (ie. lawful access)" > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 22 14:55:35 2007 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 10:55:35 -0400 Subject: Xubuntu pre-install questions In-Reply-To: <7ac602420704211910p24466853ia7fc1dec9c76244b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070422012931.GA5285@waltdnes.org> <7ac602420704211910p24466853ia7fc1dec9c76244b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <462B7767.1060802@the-wire.com> Ian Petersen wrote: > One caveat is that the system I'm describing is Gentoo, so most of the > user-ish binaries end up in /usr/bin so I'm not really at risk of > running out of space on /. I don't know where Xubuntu puts things so > you may need a bigger / partition. I'd expect both distros to mostly > adhere to the filesystem hierarchy standard, though, so I'd just go > ahead with 2 Gigs if it were me. I just did a Kubuntu install, taking defaults for most things, but putting /home, /var and swap in their own partitions. With the standard stuff plus qemu, Thunderbird, Firefox and a few others, / is taking 2.33 GB. I once had an incident with Slackware 10 that suggested that if I installed *EVERYTHING* in the release it would have needed about 4GB in / . All the stuff I want to use (including KDE, gcc, ...) fits into 2GB in / partition. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 22 16:10:18 2007 From: tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 12:10:18 -0400 Subject: Getting Feisty In-Reply-To: <462A2260.4000903-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <462A1244.4080703@telly.org> <462A206B.10704@utoronto.ca> <462A2260.4000903@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070422161018.GB6614@thecat.localnet> On Sat, Apr 21, 2007 at 10:40:32AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: > > deb http://debian.yorku.ca/ubuntu main restricted universe multiverse > > deb-src http://debian.yorku.ca/ubuntu main restricted universe multiverse > Thanks for the link -- but is this private to TLUG members? > > There are no Canadian mirrors listed at Ubuntu central, and this isn't > mentioned at the Ubuntu Canada website. > > I just don't want to spread the word about this too far if York doesn't > want that. Well debian.yorku.ca is an official Debian mirror so I would suspect that its ubuntu mirrors are probably public as well. Be nice to have some way of confirming that though. Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 22 17:37:09 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 13:37:09 -0400 Subject: Xubuntu pre-install questions In-Reply-To: <462B7767.1060802-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070422012931.GA5285@waltdnes.org> <7ac602420704211910p24466853ia7fc1dec9c76244b@mail.gmail.com> <462B7767.1060802@the-wire.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420704221037q7108c910o3ad20815f8d9df61@mail.gmail.com> On 4/22/07, Mel Wilson wrote: > I just did a Kubuntu install, taking defaults for most things, but > putting /home, /var and swap in their own partitions. With the > standard stuff plus qemu, Thunderbird, Firefox and a few others, / is > taking 2.33 GB. > > I once had an incident with Slackware 10 that suggested that if I > installed *EVERYTHING* in the release it would have needed about 4GB > in / . All the stuff I want to use (including KDE, gcc, ...) fits > into 2GB in / partition. I'm now sitting at the machine I described earlier (I wasn't before) and I can tell you I vastly over-estimated the size of /. It's only a 1 GB partition, and I have 600 MB free. A / that takes 2.33 GB seems huge to me! Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 22 17:57:53 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 13:57:53 -0400 Subject: Getting Feisty In-Reply-To: <20070422161018.GB6614-70WplSiaoiAG/9ncUZ6upg@public.gmane.org> References: <462A1244.4080703@telly.org> <462A206B.10704@utoronto.ca> <462A2260.4000903@telly.org> <20070422161018.GB6614@thecat.localnet> Message-ID: On 22/04/07, Allen Taylor wrote: > Well debian.yorku.ca is an official Debian mirror so I would suspect > that its ubuntu mirrors are probably public as well. Be nice to have > some way of confirming that though. we use 'em as our default mirror, for over a year, they're nice and fast and this is the first time I've even considered public/non-public. go for it! djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 22 18:55:58 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 14:55:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: www.gtalug.org Message-ID: Hi all. www.gtalug.org has been reporting MySQL errors for at least 30 minutes (so the error isn't transient). Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 00:43:56 2007 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:43:56 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? Message-ID: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> Just a question for those of you with Mac... - Why do you (supposedly Linux guys) have Mac? - How does Mac help you in a way that Linux doesn't? - Do you use Mac for your Linux/Unix related tasks? - After using them both, have you given up on Mac? Or, Linux? In other word, convince me to buy a Mac for myself, and not just as present. :-) - William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 00:49:48 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:49:48 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: <20070423004356.GA6531-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <8C74A2AF-1BE8-4CBF-8C79-15E2B098A552@visibleassets.com> cuz it "just works" I need a machine that I don't have to futz with. My job is making servers work, not my workstation. Dave On 22-Apr-07, at 8:43 PM, William Park wrote: > Just a question for those of you with Mac... > > - Why do you (supposedly Linux guys) have Mac? > - How does Mac help you in a way that Linux doesn't? > - Do you use Mac for your Linux/Unix related tasks? > - After using them both, have you given up on Mac? Or, Linux? > > In other word, convince me to buy a Mac for myself, and not just as > present. :-) > > - > William Park , Toronto, Canada > ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive > http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html > BashDiff: Super Bash shell > http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 01:06:09 2007 From: erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Frank (Erebus)) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 21:06:09 -0400 Subject: Kubuntu 7.04 Problem Install In-Reply-To: <20070423004356.GA6531-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <200704222106.09705.erebus@rogers.com> Well, so fa not so good. I've downloaded Kubuntu and Ubuntu regular and alternalternate installs. I've downloaded it to my wife's WinXP machine as well as my Kubuntu machine and burned the CDs on both. So far, it gets part way through "loading additional components" and says that there is an error on the CD (so far I've burned 16 CDs). So I've taken the step of asking Canonical to mail me a Kubuntu 7.04 which hopefully will solve my issue. Let's just say that I am a little frustrated. Frank in Mississauga -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 01:45:16 2007 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 21:45:16 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: <20070423004356.GA6531-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20070423014516.GA16241@md5.ca> William Park(opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org)@Sun, Apr 22, 2007 at 08:43:56PM -0400: > Just a question for those of you with Mac... > > - Why do you (supposedly Linux guys) have Mac? > - How does Mac help you in a way that Linux doesn't? > - Do you use Mac for your Linux/Unix related tasks? > - After using them both, have you given up on Mac? Or, Linux? > > In other word, convince me to buy a Mac for myself, and not just as > present. :-) new macbooks are fast, they run linux and os x and windows when you need to. they all things you need a computer to do while taking the least possible amount of your worthwhile time straightening out library versions, kernel patches and wireless firmware versions. some people live by fildding with things, some people need a reliable "office tool" and unix buddy. so it just works. also it looks very nice and has good battery lifetime. macbook, is better then pro, because it is plastic and does wireless whole lot better. plus it doesn't rust. hth p. -- Create like God. Command like a King. Work like a Slave. http://perlpimp.com | http://static.md5.ca/resume.pdf -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 01:51:55 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 21:51:55 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: <20070423004356.GA6531-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <462C113B.4020708@telly.org> William Park wrote: > Just a question for those of you with Mac... > I don't. But my son works at the Yorkdale Apple store and I know some friends that like both Linux and Macs. > - Why do you (supposedly Linux guys) have Mac? > At a lot of fundamental things, it's both easier to use (ie, one-button mouse) and has really nice eye candy. There's no comparison between the way Macs handle things like photo and music collections compared to the way Linux and Windows handles these same tasks. For more complex stuff, now Macs have a console window with a shell and many of the same underlying tools as a Linux/Unix system. But if you want simple, Apple definitely wins on the UI. It's not a compelling reason for _me_ to switch, but understand the attraction. My quick summary is that: - Lintel is the best choice for people who love computers - Mac is the best choice for people who hate computers > - How does Mac help you in a way that Linux doesn't? > In a very subjective way I'd just suggest that it's "friendlier" at a lot of mundane tasks that non-geeks would do. The Mac OS can't do anything that a Linux box can't do, but it's more novice-friendly (IMO) and it has better available software if you're in the creative arts. (Sorry, but if you're doing graphics for printed media, Gimp doesn't cut it. While Linux is increasing its presence in the field of movie animation, don't even think about it for architecture. And you just don't hear about too many musicians making Linux-based synthesizers or sampling systems.) > - Do you use Mac for your Linux/Unix related tasks? > - After using them both, have you given up on Mac? Or, Linux? > Neither. They both have their place, which is better depends heavily on the intended user. Of course, all else equal I'd surely prefer the option that relied on non-proprietary software, but all else +isn't_ equal here. Linux may be good _enough_ in some areas for computing newcomers, but Apple does really well in this part. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 02:00:45 2007 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:00:45 -0400 Subject: Kubuntu 7.04 problem install Message-ID: <462C134D.7080404@rogers.com> > > So far, it gets part > way through "loading additional components" and says that there is an error > on the CD (so far I've burned 16 CDs). I think that there is a distinct possibility that the drive you are using to read the CD is dead, dying, or needs to be cleaned, since it's unlikely that two different burners would produce multiple CDs that all fail at the exact same point in the install. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 02:41:39 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:41:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: help analyzing an attack In-Reply-To: <7ac602420704200914q5b460f15w64b5591dbe7f45f1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <9862A95E-8E79-403A-A325-0CEB3ADC57CF@visibleassets.com> <20070418155214.GD5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46263F1F.2070300@utoronto.ca> <20070418165814.GF5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <2DDB63F0-79E0-47ED-86F8-C153193B930F@visibleassets.com> <7ac602420704181105l1d87e3a4qea3a071e0a9d1c3b@mail.gmail.com> <4628E525.9030006@utoronto.ca> <7ac602420704200914q5b460f15w64b5591dbe7f45f1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Apr 2007, Ian Petersen wrote: > I could be wrong, but I think that's done when you create the > key-pair. I'm lazy, so my key-pair is not password protected, but the > ssh-keygen command asks for a password and admonishes you if it's > blank. It's worth noting that the ssh _passphrase_ that you are prompted for during key authentication (or earlier if using ssh-agent) is not just a password. Password authentication is a distinct process to PKI authentication. The PKI passphrase never transverses the network during authentication while the regular password does (albeit over an encrypted channel). I don't _think_ it is possible to turn on PKI auth and password auth at once in OpenSSH but it may be. Even if it was possible I'd be inclined to stick to PKI auth only as the addition of a standard password would add little to security and would throw away a lot of the cool stuff you can do with ssh when using ssh-agent. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 02:45:17 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:45:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: help analyzing an attack In-Reply-To: References: <9862A95E-8E79-403A-A325-0CEB3ADC57CF@visibleassets.com> <20070418155214.GD5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <46263F1F.2070300@utoronto.ca> <20070418165814.GF5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <2DDB63F0-79E0-47ED-86F8-C153193B930F@visibleassets.com> <7ac602420704181105l1d87e3a4qea3a071e0a9d1c3b@mail.gmail.com> <4628E525.9030006@utoronto.ca> <7ac602420704200914q5b460f15w64b5591dbe7f45f1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Apr 2007, Robert Brockway wrote: > I don't _think_ it is possible to turn on PKI auth and password auth at once > in OpenSSH but it may be. Even if it was possible I'd be inclined to stick Let me clarify here - it is possible (and common) to configure OpenSSH to try for PKI auth and then fall back to password auth (or others) if the PKI auth is unsuccessful. I'm just not sure it is possible to require PKI auth and[1] password auth to successfully authenticate. [1] This is a logical and. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 02:56:56 2007 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:56:56 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: <20070423014516.GA16241-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <20070423014516.GA16241@md5.ca> Message-ID: <20070423025656.GA6881@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Apr 22, 2007 at 09:45:16PM -0400, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > William Park(opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org)@Sun, Apr 22, 2007 at 08:43:56PM -0400: > > Just a question for those of you with Mac... > > > > - Why do you (supposedly Linux guys) have Mac? > > - How does Mac help you in a way that Linux doesn't? > > - Do you use Mac for your Linux/Unix related tasks? > > - After using them both, have you given up on Mac? Or, Linux? > > > > In other word, convince me to buy a Mac for myself, and not just as > > present. :-) > > new macbooks are fast, they run linux and os x and windows Which Linux distro installs onto iMac/Macbook? My main interest at this point is... I hear/read that there is BSD underneath. But, how useable is Mac as Unix machine? I hear that Mac OS running on top of BSD is not the same as KDE/Gnome running on top of Linux/Xorg. > when you need to. they all things you need a computer to do > while taking the least possible amount of your worthwhile time > straightening out library versions, kernel patches and > wireless firmware versions. some people live by fildding with > things, some people need a reliable "office tool" and unix buddy. > so it just works. > > also it looks very nice and has good battery lifetime. macbook, is > better then pro, because it is plastic and does wireless whole lot > better. plus it doesn't rust. > hth -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jonzou-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 03:49:41 2007 From: jonzou-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jon) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 23:49:41 -0400 Subject: Linksys NSLU2, anyone? In-Reply-To: <20070419220635.GH5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070417124703.GA17235@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <20070418165737.GE5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070419220635.GH5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3009c0a80704222049w30092bd3l20299f534eb596a0@mail.gmail.com> I'm running openwrt on asus wl-500g premium,excellent hardware,266 cpu 4m flash 32m ram and 2 usb2 port,also optware from nslu2 is very helpful,bunch of apps have been ported .currently i hook a hd and a webcam on it. On 4/19/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 12:54:47PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > They haven't produced a nasty cost-reduced version of the WRTSL54GS as > far > > as I know. So it is like the old WRT54GS: twice the flash and RAM of > > the GL. I don't know why they didn't make the GL like the old GS and > > charged a bit more. > > Well I hadn't seen the WRTSL54GS before, only the WRT54GS which I knew > had been cut down at some point. > > > OK. I have no basis to compare. I haven't read the spec sheets of > > either the Intel or Broadcom chips. > > I highly doubt you will ever see the spec sheets of the broadcom. :) > > > Not generally my favourite kind, but I have done it (perhaps not in > > this millennium). > > Well there are people that have made the NSLU2 have 64 or 128MB ram by > doing some soldering. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 03:55:35 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 23:55:35 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: <20070423025656.GA6881-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <20070423014516.GA16241@md5.ca> <20070423025656.GA6881@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On 4/22/07, William Park wrote: > On Sun, Apr 22, 2007 at 09:45:16PM -0400, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > > William Park(opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org)@Sun, Apr 22, 2007 at 08:43:56PM -0400: > > > Just a question for those of you with Mac... > > > > > > - Why do you (supposedly Linux guys) have Mac? > > > - How does Mac help you in a way that Linux doesn't? > > > - Do you use Mac for your Linux/Unix related tasks? > > > - After using them both, have you given up on Mac? Or, Linux? > > > > > > In other word, convince me to buy a Mac for myself, and not just as > > > present. :-) > > > > new macbooks are fast, they run linux and os x and windows > > Which Linux distro installs onto iMac/Macbook? Evidently, Debian does: http://wiki.debian.org/MacBook I've also heard report of Ubuntu and Slackware possibly working. There's a VM-ware-like system called "Parallels" which is up to the task of running Windows, so I expect pretty well any Intel Linux could function there. > My main interest at this point is... I hear/read that there is BSD > underneath. But, how useable is Mac as Unix machine? I hear that Mac > OS running on top of BSD is not the same as KDE/Gnome running on top > of Linux/Xorg. There's an X package, so you can certainly run X stuff. But the "native" Mac software does not use X, so yes, it's loosely true that "MacOS" is not the same as running GNOME or KDE applications on Linux. Mind you, numerous GNOME and KDE applications can be run either 'natively' (e.g.- via the Cocoa API) or via X. And describing that in sufficient detail to properly characterize it would get us into the realm of being fairly much kernel-agnostic in that such things as X, GNOME, and KDE run just as well (or badly) on various non-Linux OSes as they do on Linux. If you look at the major sorts of "desktop applications," there are nice ports of many of them to MacOS. I find NeoOffice (the "Cocoa-ized" version of OpenOffice.org) faster to load and run on MacOS than it seems to be on Linux/X. Between Darwin and Ports, a whole lot of the apps that run on Linux and/or BSD will run more or less nicely on MacOS. Characterizing things as either better or worse is *very* much in the eye of the beholder: one man's meat may be another man's poison, which goes in all directions. > > when you need to. they all things you need a computer to do > > while taking the least possible amount of your worthwhile time > > straightening out library versions, kernel patches and > > wireless firmware versions. some people live by fildding with > > things, some people need a reliable "office tool" and unix buddy. > > so it just works. > > > > also it looks very nice and has good battery lifetime. macbook, is > > better then pro, because it is plastic and does wireless whole lot > > better. plus it doesn't rust. One less-obvious "Mac merit" is that it comes with a functioning Java environment, which is not true for any flavour of Linux. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 04:16:59 2007 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 00:16:59 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <20070423014516.GA16241@md5.ca> <20070423025656.GA6881@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20070423001659.b3b8e471.gstrom@teksavvy.com> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 23:55:35 -0400 "Christopher Browne" wrote: > I've also heard report of Ubuntu and Slackware possibly working. > There is an unofficial port called Slackintosh http://workaround.ch/index.html but it's for the PowerPC. -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 05:49:16 2007 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (Jerome Macaranas) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:49:16 +0800 Subject: OT: network routing information In-Reply-To: <99e6b2860704211525i3c8bb11er81f46dc173e32ab6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1209.202.175.226.99.1177172923.squirrel@webmail.gmanmi.tv> <99e6b2860704211525i3c8bb11er81f46dc173e32ab6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200704231349.16802.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Since I'm dealing with a sales personnel I would assume that he's not pointing to OSI's transport layer. I have been reading through FCP "Flow Control Platform" of Internap (Internet Provider.. white paper is available on the site) I was wondering if those written technologies are being implemented on all ISPs.. Nick, do you have similar technology being exercised in your company? tia, On Sunday 22 April 2007 06:25, Nick Davey wrote: > Providers will route to their transit providers based on any number of > reasons, including local policy of whether traffic should be passed to the > best path or the closest exit point, monetary cost, or even load balanced > across several connections. Some providers such as tech savvy even work it > into their packages, paying more for the transit provider that has a better > connection. This statement is far too ambiguous tho: > > a provider is telling me that most internet providers route > > > traffic via TCP only. > > Hope that helps, > > Nick > > On 4/21/07, jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org wrote: > > hi, > > > > i need to understand how a provider routes data via its different > > transits, a provider is telling me that most internet providers route > > traffic via TCP only.. > > > > and not like their service they are routing traffic to their different > > transits based on a lot of things.. latency, network availability etc.. > > > > tia, > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 11:23:34 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:23:34 -0400 Subject: Linksys NSLU2, anyone? In-Reply-To: <3009c0a80704222049w30092bd3l20299f534eb596a0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070417124703.GA17235@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <20070418165737.GE5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070419220635.GH5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3009c0a80704222049w30092bd3l20299f534eb596a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <462C9736.6070606@rogers.com> > > > Not generally my favourite kind, but I have done it (perhaps not in > > this millennium). > > Well there are people that have made the NSLU2 have 64 or 128MB ram by > doing some soldering. > Many years ago, I upgraded a couple of VIC-20s, by increasing the RAM from 5KB all the way to 8K!!! I did this by soldering the new memory chips on top of some of the existing ones and then adding a bit of wiring. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 11:37:23 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:37:23 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: <20070423025656.GA6881-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <20070423014516.GA16241@md5.ca> <20070423025656.GA6881@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <2DCA4989-EDB2-4825-9C08-FBD9F9FF6AA7@visibleassets.com> On 22-Apr-07, at 10:56 PM, William Park wrote: > On Sun, Apr 22, 2007 at 09:45:16PM -0400, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: >> William Park(opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org)@Sun, Apr 22, 2007 at >> 08:43:56PM -0400: >>> Just a question for those of you with Mac... >>> >>> - Why do you (supposedly Linux guys) have Mac? >>> - How does Mac help you in a way that Linux doesn't? >>> - Do you use Mac for your Linux/Unix related tasks? >>> - After using them both, have you given up on Mac? Or, Linux? >>> >>> In other word, convince me to buy a Mac for myself, and not just as >>> present. :-) >> >> new macbooks are fast, they run linux and os x and windows Yes, they are as fast as anything out there, in fact at one time they were the fastest notebooks around > > Which Linux distro installs onto iMac/Macbook? almost any now. They run windows natively after all > > My main interest at this point is... I hear/read that there is BSD > underneath. But, how useable is Mac as Unix machine? I hear that Mac > OS running on top of BSD is not the same as KDE/Gnome running on top > of Linux/Xorg. Pretty much vanilla BSD underneath. All the commands you'd expect to find in a shell. The one thing that they have messed with is user auth. /etc/passwd is not used. Other than that I can do anything in a shell I can do on a BSD box, > >> when you need to. they all things you need a computer to do >> while taking the least possible amount of your worthwhile time >> straightening out library versions, kernel patches and >> wireless firmware versions. some people live by fildding with >> things, some people need a reliable "office tool" and unix buddy. >> so it just works. >> Yes, as I said, It "just works" so I can concentrate on working. All the little things like dual displays, auto dimming, etc actually work! Now admittedly you have to pay for some utilities, but nothing is truly $0 cost. Add up the number of hours you spend getting your desktop the way you want it. Then multiply that by your hourly rate, then go and use that money to buy a Mac I did Dave >> also it looks very nice and has good battery lifetime. macbook, is >> better then pro, because it is plastic and does wireless whole lot >> better. plus it doesn't rust. >> hth > > -- > William Park , Toronto, Canada > ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive > http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html > BashDiff: Super Bash shell > http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 13:20:25 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:20:25 -0400 Subject: Xubuntu pre-install questions In-Reply-To: <20070422012931.GA5285-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070422012931.GA5285@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20070423132025.GI5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Apr 21, 2007 at 09:29:31PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > My main machine is an AMD running Gentoo. My 1999 Dell 450mhz, PIII, > with 128 megs of ram isn't being used for much now, so I figure I'll > give Xubuntu a test drive. The harddrive is 41 gigs. I intend to wipe > it and install fresh. My current "three partitions" strategy is... > > - 10 gigs for / > - a swap partition > - the rest is /home. Any odds-and-ends that don't belong to a specific > account go into /home/misc > > My questions are... > 1) What is the recommended size for /, assuming I install "the works"? 10GB sounds pretty reasonable. > 2) What is the recommended size for the swap partition? Depends what you do. I would probably do 256MB if it was my machine just to give it a bit of working room. > 3) What is the recommended filesystem? (ext3fs, reiserfs, whatever) ext3 > Any helpful pre-install hints would be appreciated. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 13:22:28 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:22:28 -0400 Subject: Xubuntu pre-install questions In-Reply-To: <7ac602420704211910p24466853ia7fc1dec9c76244b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070422012931.GA5285@waltdnes.org> <7ac602420704211910p24466853ia7fc1dec9c76244b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070423132228.GJ5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Apr 21, 2007 at 10:10:14PM -0400, Ian Petersen wrote: > My system at home has a 2 Gig / and everything else is on LVM volumes. > When I say everything else, I mean /home, /opt, /tmp, /usr, /var, > etc. I find this setup to be very flexible. I leave /bin and /sbin > on the same partition that holds / so I can boot to a mostly-usable > system even without LVM. > > As for a swap partition, I'd recommend using a swap file instead. In > 2.6 kernels the speed difference between swap partitions and swap > files is negligble to non-existant but swap files are much more > flexible because you can add and remove them as you see fit. > > Regarding filesystems, I'm partial to ReiserFS, but I hear that > version 3 (the only stable version) is basically in maintenance mode > and that there are some fundamental problems with it. (I don't > remember the details but SuSE, who used to use ReiserFS by default, > has switched away from it.) I think ext3 is the standard these days. > I think both ext3 and ReiserFS can be resized while the filesystem is > mounted, which is a big boon if you're using LVM and want to resize > one of your logical partitions. reiserfs3 is also the only filesystem to ever cause me to loose data due to serious file corruption. I am never using that again and I highly discourage other people from using it. It's handling of any kind of error seems to be a disaster. > One caveat is that the system I'm describing is Gentoo, so most of the > user-ish binaries end up in /usr/bin so I'm not really at risk of > running out of space on /. I don't know where Xubuntu puts things so > you may need a bigger / partition. I'd expect both distros to mostly > adhere to the filesystem hierarchy standard, though, so I'd just go > ahead with 2 Gigs if it were me. If /usr is a seperate partition, then most things will be going there. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 13:23:24 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:23:24 -0400 Subject: Xubuntu pre-install questions In-Reply-To: <22e435080704212044y701d5a4chabda128a58a2f1f4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070422012931.GA5285@waltdnes.org> <7ac602420704211910p24466853ia7fc1dec9c76244b@mail.gmail.com> <22e435080704212044y701d5a4chabda128a58a2f1f4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070423132324.GK5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Apr 21, 2007 at 11:44:23PM -0400, Sheldon Mustard wrote: > The details are Novell was concerned b/c Hans Reiser was charged with the > murder of his wife. > > Once upon a time I very much preferred reiserfs for general purpose > servers. I guess this discussion is all academic now anyways b/c zfs is the > future right ... damn I am such a sun fanboy. Too bad about Sun's choice of license and all those patents they filed for. Not much future in a filesystem no one can use. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 12:56:30 2007 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:56:30 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: <462C113B.4020708-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <462C113B.4020708@telly.org> Message-ID: <20070423125631.0990E83836@sarg.ryerson.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > My quick summary is that: > - Lintel is the best choice for people who love computers > - Mac is the best choice for people who hate computers I'd say it as: - Linux is the best choice for people who want to mess with computers, including learning and gaining self-confidence, and for servers - Mac OS-X is the best choice for people who want to use computers, whether that be the traditional designer, writers, or coders (a very large percentage of computer science researchers run Macs, now). I am responsible in some way for 6 computers: 3 Linux servers, 1 Linux laptop, 1 Mac laptop, and 1 iMac; the servers won't be changing, the Macs are what I use as my interface and that won't be changing, and my partner is fairly happy with her Linux laptop (although another iMac may be in the cards). I used to be in the first camp (for more than a dozen years), but got very frustrated with drivers and multi-media stuff. I got my Mac laptop 4 years ago, and have been very happy with it, and added the iMac a year ago. I will say, though that Linux has improved in its ability to 'just work' in the last few years. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 13:29:10 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:29:10 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: <20070423004356.GA6531-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20070423132910.GL5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Apr 22, 2007 at 08:43:56PM -0400, William Park wrote: > Just a question for those of you with Mac... > > - Why do you (supposedly Linux guys) have Mac? I don't have one. I wouldn't mind one of the powerpc mac's since they make excellent powerpc linux systems. Since the macs had such limited numbers, getting linux to fully support everything was somewhat easier. PowerPC is a nice architecture, and the macs well supported by linux. What is not to like? > - How does Mac help you in a way that Linux doesn't? I think you mean Mac OS then. That's different. No interest in that from me. > - Do you use Mac for your Linux/Unix related tasks? > - After using them both, have you given up on Mac? Or, Linux? I know people using the powerbooks. At least one person started out with mac os X, then installed debian, then went back to os X for a bit, and remembered why he left and went back to linux on it. Mac OS X was just too limiting apparently. > In other word, convince me to buy a Mac for myself, and not just as > present. :-) Well it depends if you want it for the nice hardware or the OS it comes with. I like the nice hardware, and don't really care one way or the other about their OS. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 13:30:06 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:30:06 -0400 Subject: Kubuntu 7.04 Problem Install In-Reply-To: <200704222106.09705.erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <200704222106.09705.erebus@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070423133006.GM5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Apr 22, 2007 at 09:06:09PM -0400, Frank (Erebus) wrote: > Well, so fa not so good. I've downloaded Kubuntu and Ubuntu regular and > alternalternate installs. I've downloaded it to my wife's WinXP machine as > well as my Kubuntu machine and burned the CDs on both. So far, it gets part > way through "loading additional components" and says that there is an error > on the CD (so far I've burned 16 CDs). So I've taken the step of asking > Canonical to mail me a Kubuntu 7.04 which hopefully will solve my issue. > Let's just say that I am a little frustrated. Did you check the md5sum on the images you downloaded? Any reason you can't do a netinstall? Way less stupid pointless downloading. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 13:33:11 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:33:11 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: <2DCA4989-EDB2-4825-9C08-FBD9F9FF6AA7-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <20070423014516.GA16241@md5.ca> <20070423025656.GA6881@node1.opengeometry.net> <2DCA4989-EDB2-4825-9C08-FBD9F9FF6AA7@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <20070423133311.GN5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 07:37:23AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > almost any now. They run windows natively after all As long as the distribution supports EFI based machines, which I doubt very many do yet. Windows requires bootcamp to run after all, which means it is very much NOT a standard PC (in about the same way the SGI Visual Workstations were not standard PCs, and their support in linux seems to have gone seriously downhill). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 13:41:43 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:41:43 -0400 Subject: Linksys NSLU2, anyone? In-Reply-To: <462C9736.6070606-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20070417124703.GA17235@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <20070418165737.GE5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070419220635.GH5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3009c0a80704222049w30092bd3l20299f534eb596a0@mail.gmail.com> <462C9736.6070606@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070423134143.GO5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 07:23:34AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Many years ago, I upgraded a couple of VIC-20s, by increasing the RAM > from 5KB all the way to 8K!!! I did this by soldering the new memory > chips on top of some of the existing ones and then adding a bit of wiring. With the right modules to plug in you could get up to 32k on a Vic-20. Mine only ever had 5k though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 14:38:05 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:38:05 -0400 Subject: Linksys NSLU2, anyone? In-Reply-To: <20070423134143.GO5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070417124703.GA17235@amtoo.utoronto.ca> <20070418165737.GE5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070419220635.GH5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3009c0a80704222049w30092bd3l20299f534eb596a0@mail.gmail.com> <462C9736.6070606@rogers.com> <20070423134143.GO5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <462CC4CD.8010706@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 07:23:34AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> Many years ago, I upgraded a couple of VIC-20s, by increasing the RAM >> from 5KB all the way to 8K!!! I did this by soldering the new memory >> chips on top of some of the existing ones and then adding a bit of wiring. >> > > With the right modules to plug in you could get up to 32k on a Vic-20. > Mine only ever had 5k though. > Those VIC-20s belonged to co-workers, who saw the mod in a magazine and asked me to do it for them. I've never owned a Commie computer myself. ;-) My first computer was an IMSAI 8080. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMSAI_8080 Incidentally. I recently bought a Nokia N800 and increased the SD RAM from 128 MB to 4 G. It was a lot easier doing that, than that 3K upgrade on the VIC. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 15:26:53 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:26:53 -0400 Subject: semi-OT: portable backup drive Message-ID: <1177342013.6492.19.camel@localhost> hi olks, i'm heading out of town for an extended trip (most of a year) and won'th ave access to my desktop, which is what i usually use for backups and storage. i'm looking for a backup hard drive that i can take with me on that trip -- something pretty substantial so that i can take all mybacked-up dvd's with me, as well as some audio projects i'm working on. can anyone recommend a good deal in this domain? it would be nice if the enclosure weren't too huge; otherwise i'm not really decided on what i want. in 3.5" drives, 500gb seems to be a pretty decent price point at the moment, but i could go smaller or larger if the best deal is to be found in either of those directions. thanks as always, matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 15:36:07 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:36:07 -0400 Subject: semi-OT: portable backup drive In-Reply-To: <1177342013.6492.19.camel@localhost> References: <1177342013.6492.19.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20070423153607.GP5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 11:26:53AM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > i'm heading out of town for an extended trip (most of a year) and won'th > ave access to my desktop, which is what i usually use for backups and > storage. i'm looking for a backup hard drive that i can take with me on > that trip -- something pretty substantial so that i can take all > mybacked-up dvd's with me, as well as some audio projects i'm working > on. can anyone recommend a good deal in this domain? it would be nice > if the enclosure weren't too huge; otherwise i'm not really decided on > what i want. in 3.5" drives, 500gb seems to be a pretty decent price > point at the moment, but i could go smaller or larger if the best deal > is to be found in either of those directions. Well you could get something like a Vantec NexStar3 NST-360SU (My wife has a 260 (2.5" laptop drive one) and it just works). The 360SU does eSATA and USB2.0 for a 3.5" SATA drive and of course has an external power supply (always needed for 3.5" drives). Vantec seems to know how to do external drives that work. Then just buy whichever SATA drive you like (320GB or 500GB WD should be decent) and put it in. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 16:33:37 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:33:37 -0400 Subject: semi-OT: portable backup drive In-Reply-To: <1177342013.6492.19.camel@localhost> References: <1177342013.6492.19.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On 4/23/07, Matt Price wrote: > hi olks, > > i'm heading out of town for an extended trip (most of a year) and won'th > ave access to my desktop, which is what i usually use for backups and > storage. i'm looking for a backup hard drive that i can take with me on > that trip -- something pretty substantial so that i can take all > mybacked-up dvd's with me, as well as some audio projects i'm working > on. can anyone recommend a good deal in this domain? it would be nice > if the enclosure weren't too huge; otherwise i'm not really decided on > what i want. in 3.5" drives, 500gb seems to be a pretty decent price > point at the moment, but i could go smaller or larger if the best deal > is to be found in either of those directions. My chorus (northernlightschorus.com) bought a LaCie 250G external drive some time ago. With a USB2 connection, it's very fast, and 250G is plenty, even for a three hour session using a dozen mics, recording at 160kHz. At the time (perhaps 2 years ago) it was about a dollar a gigabyte -- http://www.lacie.com/products/range.htm?id=10036 has some examples for you. And Carbon Computing -- http://www.carbonation.com/sales/index.html -- sells the units locally. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb ps This is my first post to TLUG that should be text-only. Apologies to all about the previous HTML behaviour. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 17:02:10 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:02:10 -0400 Subject: semi-OT: portable backup drive In-Reply-To: References: <1177342013.6492.19.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <462CE692.2080608@utoronto.ca> Alex Beamish wrote: > On 4/23/07, Matt Price wrote: >> hi olks, >> >> i'm heading out of town for an extended trip (most of a year) and won'th >> ave access to my desktop, which is what i usually use for backups and >> storage. i'm looking for a backup hard drive that i can take with me on >> that trip -- something pretty substantial so that i can take all >> mybacked-up dvd's with me, as well as some audio projects i'm working >> on. can anyone recommend a good deal in this domain? it would be nice >> if the enclosure weren't too huge; otherwise i'm not really decided on >> what i want. in 3.5" drives, 500gb seems to be a pretty decent price >> point at the moment, but i could go smaller or larger if the best deal >> is to be found in either of those directions. > > My chorus (northernlightschorus.com) bought a LaCie 250G external > drive some time ago. With a USB2 connection, it's very fast, and 250G > is plenty, even for a three hour session using a dozen mics, recording > at 160kHz. At the time (perhaps 2 years ago) it was about a dollar a > gigabyte -- http://www.lacie.com/products/range.htm?id=10036 has some > examples for you. And Carbon Computing -- > http://www.carbonation.com/sales/index.html -- sells the units > locally. > I find that, for all LaCie's posturing as a Porsche affiliated or whatever it is design, their power input and cord are horrible (likely because they use the same Delta electronics stuff that everyone else does). Vantec are far cheaper than any LaCie, and you get to use whatever drive you like, now, and in the future. I haven't attempted to dissassemble a LaCie, but I'd imagine it would void the warranty on the unit and the drive. Plus with all their industrial Porsche design, I'm sure taking one apart is a non-trivial task. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 17:27:42 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:27:42 -0400 Subject: semi-OT: portable backup drive In-Reply-To: <462CE692.2080608-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1177342013.6492.19.camel@localhost> <462CE692.2080608@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <462CEC8E.4020306@rogers.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > > I find that, for all LaCie's posturing as a Porsche affiliated or > whatever it is design, their power input and cord are horrible (likely > because they use the same Delta electronics stuff that everyone else > does). > > Vantec are far cheaper than any LaCie, and you get to use whatever > drive you like, now, and in the future. I haven't attempted to > dissassemble a LaCie, but I'd imagine it would void the warranty on > the unit and the drive. Plus with all their industrial Porsche design, > I'm sure taking one apart is a non-trivial task. > I bought an Adaptec 3.5 inch USB 2 case a while ago. It works very well and currenly holds a 160 GB drive. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 17:44:27 2007 From: cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Chris Cunnington) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:44:27 -0400 Subject: Welcome to Microsoft !!! In-Reply-To: <462CEC8E.4020306-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <462CEC8E.4020306@rogers.com> Message-ID: Hi All, I've bought a Microsoft Vista laden computer because ... So, since I have to leave Mac, and learn Microsoft, I need to know a few things. 1. What do Microsofties use instead of Fetch for uploading files for a website to a server (ftp client)? 2. Where's my Terminal? I need to find the application in Vista/XP that will present me with a command line I can summon vi from. Where is that? Cheers, Chris Cunnington -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 17:50:19 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:50:19 -0400 Subject: Welcome to Microsoft !!! In-Reply-To: References: <462CEC8E.4020306@rogers.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420704231050m6f7b11b0ncd8a28284975fca@mail.gmail.com> On 4/23/07, Chris Cunnington wrote: > 1. What do Microsofties use instead of Fetch for uploading files for a > website to a server (ftp client)? > > 2. Where's my Terminal? I need to find the application in Vista/XP that will > present me with a command line I can summon vi from. Where is that? You may want to install Cygwin if you plan to use a Windows machine like a Unix machine. I think the Windows way to run FTP or vi is through the start menu. Barring either Cygwin or use of the start menu, the "terminal" in XP can be reached by using the Run menu item within the start menu to execute cmd.exe. I haven't used the Vista command shell, so it might be better, but if you're used to Bash, you'll find cmd.exe to be terrible, I think. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 17:52:35 2007 From: paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org (Paul Nash) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:52:35 -0400 Subject: Welcome to Microsoft !!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >2. Where's my Terminal? I need to find the application in Vista/XP that will >present me with a command line I can summon vi from. Where is that? Start -> run -> cmd \\windows\system32\cmd.exe (I think). Drag an alias into the "quick launch area". Also take a look at cygwin (Unix emulator for Windog). It is a bit sucky, but that's unavoidable with Windoze underneath. Buy lots and lots of anti-depressants, blood-pressure pills, and a punch-bag with Hiss Billness' face on it. And make sure that you hang on to your Mac for when you need to get some work done accurately and in a hurry. paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 18:09:59 2007 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:09:59 -0400 Subject: Welcome to Microsoft Message-ID: <462CF677.6080109@rogers.com> > > 1. What do Microsofties use instead of Fetch for uploading files for a > website to a server (ftp client)? The most common app amongst my friends that still use Windows is Filezilla: http://filezilla.sourceforge.net/ > 2. Where's my Terminal? I need to find the application in Vista/XP that will > present me with a command line I can summon vi from. Where is that? > Start --> Program Files --> Accessories --> Command. Or just type 'cmd' in the Run box on the Start menu. Vi is not available for Windows, but Vim is: http://www.vim.org/download.php HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 18:21:16 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:21:16 -0400 Subject: Welcome to Microsoft !!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <462CF91C.7050203@rogers.com> Chris Cunnington wrote: > Hi All, > > I've bought a Microsoft Vista laden computer because ... > > So, since I have to leave Mac, and learn Microsoft, I need to know a few > things. > > 1. What do Microsofties use instead of Fetch for uploading files for a > website to a server (ftp client)? > > 2. Where's my Terminal? I need to find the application in Vista/XP that will > present me with a command line I can summon vi from. Where is that? > Dunno about Vista, but in XP you can use "Run" by entering "cmd" in the box. If you use it a lot, you can create an icon and place it in the start menu. Also, to minimize withdrawal pains, you probably want to install Cygwin. It will give you a "Unix" environment. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 18:24:09 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:24:09 -0400 Subject: Welcome to Microsoft !!! In-Reply-To: <7ac602420704231050m6f7b11b0ncd8a28284975fca-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <462CEC8E.4020306@rogers.com> <7ac602420704231050m6f7b11b0ncd8a28284975fca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <462CF9C9.3030402@rogers.com> Ian Petersen wrote: > On 4/23/07, Chris Cunnington wrote: >> 1. What do Microsofties use instead of Fetch for uploading files for a >> website to a server (ftp client)? >> >> 2. Where's my Terminal? I need to find the application in Vista/XP >> that will >> present me with a command line I can summon vi from. Where is that? > > You may want to install Cygwin if you plan to use a Windows machine > like a Unix machine. I think the Windows way to run FTP or vi is > through the start menu. > > Barring either Cygwin or use of the start menu, the "terminal" in XP > can be reached by using the Run menu item within the start menu to > execute cmd.exe. I haven't used the Vista command shell, so it might > be better, but if you're used to Bash, you'll find cmd.exe to be > terrible, I think. > > Ian > It's terrible, even without comparison to bash. It's worse than the command line in earlier versions of Windows or even good(?) ol' DOSKEY -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 18:35:34 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:35:34 -0400 Subject: Welcome to Microsoft !!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200704231435.34492.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Monday 23 April 2007 13:44, Chris Cunnington wrote: > Hi All, > > I've bought a Microsoft Vista laden computer because ... > > So, since I have to leave Mac, and learn Microsoft, I need to know > a few things. > > 1. What do Microsofties use instead of Fetch for uploading files > for a website to a server (ftp client)? PuTTY and optionally, WinSCP. > 2. Where's my Terminal? I need to find the application in Vista/XP > that will present me with a command line I can summon vi from. > Where is that? I saw a demo of a Microsoft shell, code named "monad", a couple of years ago. It looked quite interesting. No idea if it is in Vista or not. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 19:20:42 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:20:42 -0400 Subject: Welcome to Microsoft !!! In-Reply-To: <200704231435.34492.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200704231435.34492.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <00b301c785dc$7c9d6e60$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Its called powershell now. You need a few tools 1. PuTTY 2. WinSCP 3. Basic utilities http://unxutils.sourceforge.net/ > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of CLIFFORD > ILKAY > Sent: April 23, 2007 2:36 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Welcome to Microsoft !!! > > On Monday 23 April 2007 13:44, Chris Cunnington wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > I've bought a Microsoft Vista laden computer because ... > > > > So, since I have to leave Mac, and learn Microsoft, I need to know > > a few things. > > > > 1. What do Microsofties use instead of Fetch for uploading files > > for a website to a server (ftp client)? > > PuTTY and optionally, WinSCP. > > > 2. Where's my Terminal? I need to find the application in Vista/XP > > that will present me with a command line I can summon vi from. > > Where is that? > > I saw a demo of a Microsoft shell, code named "monad", a couple of > years ago. It looked quite interesting. No idea if it is in Vista or > not. > -- > Regards, > > Clifford Ilkay > Dinamis Corporation > 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 > Toronto, ON > Canada M4N 3P6 > > > +1 416-410-3326 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 19:22:24 2007 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:22:24 -0400 Subject: Welcome to Windows Message-ID: <462D0770.3020004@rogers.com> > > I saw a demo of a Microsoft shell, code named "monad", a couple of > years ago. It looked quite interesting. No idea if it is in Vista or > not. There is a spelling mistake here. I believe that the proper term is gonad. And you can be sure that its not in Vista because Ballmer and Gates don't have any. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 19:26:14 2007 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Starting my own computer business Message-ID: <2047.66.11.182.5.1177356374.squirrel@canuckster.org> Greetings, I am starting up my own computer business. What do you call the paper that makes a carbon copy (1 for the customer and 1 for me). So I can write down the bill at the customers house after doing the repair/upgrade. Where can I get this? Jason Carson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 18:28:12 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:28:12 -0400 Subject: Welcome to Microsoft !!! In-Reply-To: <00b301c785dc$7c9d6e60$0105a8c0-MlQI6EnZl2wPJunrU1OSJXVPGwe2822SptRUGzx/cGc@public.gmane.org> References: <200704231435.34492.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <00b301c785dc$7c9d6e60$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <1177352892.3198.99.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Mon, 2007-04-23 at 15:20 -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Its called powershell now. > > You need a few tools > > 1. PuTTY > 2. WinSCP > 3. Basic utilities > http://unxutils.sourceforge.net/ You may also want RealVNC for remote control if you like or you can turn on the remote assistance (Right click on My Computer then choose one of the tabs) We also recommend Firefox, Open Office. Don't forget security. Coming from a Mac you should start to be very paranoid. Distrust everything. An Anti-virus and Spyware detector are needed. We've used Lavasoft's AdAware on many occasions to identify spyware. You also need a firewall or firewall software on your computer. You can use the built-in if you like. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 19:55:52 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:55:52 -0400 Subject: OT: Starting my own computer business In-Reply-To: <2047.66.11.182.5.1177356374.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <2047.66.11.182.5.1177356374.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <1177358152.3862.41.camel@stan64.site> Grand and Toy has 2 and 3 (or more) copy receipt/invoice books, at least they used to. maybe any given large stationary store would have it too i bet. Have not seen any recently that have the seperate carbon sheet in middle, usually its embedded into the actual paper. bring a small portable printer with you, maybe that might be better. They have some, i.e. receipt printer for pizza store, that has dual layer paper, you have to bring a bag of trix with you anyways, i.e. portable and such i guess? -tl On Mon, 2007-04-23 at 15:26 -0400, Jason Carson wrote: > Greetings, > > I am starting up my own computer business. What do you call the paper that > makes a carbon copy (1 for the customer and 1 for me). So I can write down > the bill at the customers house after doing the repair/upgrade. Where can > I get this? > > Jason Carson > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 19:50:02 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Starting my own computer business In-Reply-To: <2047.66.11.182.5.1177356374.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <2047.66.11.182.5.1177356374.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <50694.207.188.88.203.1177357802.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Jason - A 'receipt book'. You can get them at Staples. Good luck with the business. > Greetings, > > I am starting up my own computer business. What do you call the paper that > makes a carbon copy (1 for the customer and 1 for me). So I can write down > the bill at the customers house after doing the repair/upgrade. Where can > I get this? > > Jason Carson > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 19:53:23 2007 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:53:23 -0400 Subject: starting own business Message-ID: <462D0EB3.4090608@rogers.com> > > I am starting up my own computer business. What do you call the paper that > makes a carbon copy (1 for the customer and 1 for me). So I can write down > the bill at the customers house after doing the repair/upgrade. Where can > I get this? You'll want an Invoice book or Sales book and you will find a large selection at Grand and Toy or Staples. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 20:05:12 2007 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:05:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Starting my own computer business In-Reply-To: <50694.207.188.88.203.1177357802.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <2047.66.11.182.5.1177356374.squirrel@canuckster.org> <50694.207.188.88.203.1177357802.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1808.66.11.182.5.1177358712.squirrel@canuckster.org> Great, thanks > > Jason - > > A 'receipt book'. You can get them at Staples. > > Good luck with the business. > > >> Greetings, >> >> I am starting up my own computer business. What do you call the paper >> that >> makes a carbon copy (1 for the customer and 1 for me). So I can write >> down >> the bill at the customers house after doing the repair/upgrade. Where >> can >> I get this? >> >> Jason Carson >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 20:23:53 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:23:53 -0400 Subject: OT: Starting my own computer business In-Reply-To: <2047.66.11.182.5.1177356374.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <2047.66.11.182.5.1177356374.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <462D15D9.5040606@rogers.com> Jason Carson wrote: > Greetings, > > I am starting up my own computer business. What do you call the paper that > makes a carbon copy (1 for the customer and 1 for me). So I can write down > the bill at the customers house after doing the repair/upgrade. Where can > I get this? > > Well, there is carbon paper, though you can also get multi-part forms that don't require it. You may want to check places such as Staples for standard forms. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 20:41:56 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:41:56 -0400 Subject: Welcome to Microsoft !!! In-Reply-To: <462CF9C9.3030402-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <462CEC8E.4020306@rogers.com> <7ac602420704231050m6f7b11b0ncd8a28284975fca@mail.gmail.com> <462CF9C9.3030402@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070423204156.GA8540@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 02:24:09PM -0400, James Knott wrote > It's terrible, even without comparison to bash. It's worse than the > command line in earlier versions of Windows or even good(?) ol' DOSKEY Actually, DOSKEY is a command in the XP DOS shell, so it may still be in Vista. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 20:42:44 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:42:44 +0000 Subject: Welcome to Microsoft !!! In-Reply-To: <200704231435.34492.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200704231435.34492.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On 4/23/07, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On Monday 23 April 2007 13:44, Chris Cunnington wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > I've bought a Microsoft Vista laden computer because ... > > > > So, since I have to leave Mac, and learn Microsoft, I need to know > > a few things. > > > > 1. What do Microsofties use instead of Fetch for uploading files > > for a website to a server (ftp client)? > > PuTTY and optionally, WinSCP. > > > 2. Where's my Terminal? I need to find the application in Vista/XP > > that will present me with a command line I can summon vi from. > > Where is that? > > I saw a demo of a Microsoft shell, code named "monad", a couple of > years ago. It looked quite interesting. No idea if it is in Vista or > not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_PowerShell http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/technologies/management/powershell/default.mspx They renamed it as Windows "PowerShell," and yes, it's available on Vista. The Wikipedia page describes it seemingly fairly nicely... The following "comparison of shells" is also pretty apropos... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_computer_shells It's definitely an enormous step ahead from what they had in previous OSes. The "grand error" is that, way, way, way back when, IBM put Rexx in as a way to script on OS/2, which was a reasonably powerful way to do things. Microsoft, when deploying Windows, ABSOLUTELY REJECTED this, and effectively rejected having anything smarter than COMMAND.COM as a scripting language. In my view, that is as severe a mistake as anything else that they have ever done that might be considered mistaken. If they *had* decided to have some form of "powerful shell," almost irrespective of what, I expect that things would have turned out differently in how subsequent systems from MSFT have been deployed/adopted. Monad/PowerShell is a *genuine* step in the "way more powerful" direction; feel smug about Linux superiority at some peril... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 21:05:47 2007 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:05:47 -0400 Subject: Kubuntu 7.04 Problem Install In-Reply-To: <20070423133006.GM5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <200704222106.09705.erebus@rogers.com> <20070423133006.GM5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1177362347.3108.2.camel@opus> On Mon, 2007-23-04 at 09:30 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Apr 22, 2007 at 09:06:09PM -0400, Frank (Erebus) wrote: > > Well, so fa not so good. I've downloaded Kubuntu and Ubuntu regular and > > alternalternate installs. I've downloaded it to my wife's WinXP machine as > > well as my Kubuntu machine and burned the CDs on both. So far, it gets part > > way through "loading additional components" and says that there is an error > > on the CD (so far I've burned 16 CDs). So I've taken the step of asking > > Canonical to mail me a Kubuntu 7.04 which hopefully will solve my issue. > > Let's just say that I am a little frustrated. > > Did you check the md5sum on the images you downloaded? > > Any reason you can't do a netinstall? Way less stupid pointless > downloading. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- Exactly! I just performed a Debian Net-install worked great. I have been reborn. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From abentley-9uqKfT/VB6MKNb1xFVKl7WItS4zQEDct at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 21:08:51 2007 From: abentley-9uqKfT/VB6MKNb1xFVKl7WItS4zQEDct at public.gmane.org (Aaron Bentley) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:08:51 -0400 Subject: We're hiring Python & C++ programmers Message-ID: <462D2063.5010301@panoramicfeedback.com> Hi all, My company, PanoMetrics, is looking to hire a few good programmers who know Python and C++. If you're interested, please see: http://panoramicfeedback.com/jobs.php Thanks, Aaron -- Aaron Bentley Director of Technology Panometrics, Inc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 21:45:20 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:45:20 -0400 Subject: Welcome to Microsoft !!! In-Reply-To: <7ac602420704231050m6f7b11b0ncd8a28284975fca-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <462CEC8E.4020306@rogers.com> <7ac602420704231050m6f7b11b0ncd8a28284975fca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070423214520.GR5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 01:50:19PM -0400, Ian Petersen wrote: > You may want to install Cygwin if you plan to use a Windows machine > like a Unix machine. I think the Windows way to run FTP or vi is > through the start menu. > > Barring either Cygwin or use of the start menu, the "terminal" in XP > can be reached by using the Run menu item within the start menu to > execute cmd.exe. I haven't used the Vista command shell, so it might > be better, but if you're used to Bash, you'll find cmd.exe to be > terrible, I think. cmd.exe is the same in vista. No change. The new shell was dropped from vista a while ago. Now they are talking longhorn might get the new shell. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 21:44:31 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:44:31 -0400 Subject: Welcome to Microsoft !!! In-Reply-To: References: <462CEC8E.4020306@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070423214431.GQ5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 01:44:27PM -0400, Chris Cunnington wrote: > I've bought a Microsoft Vista laden computer because ... > > So, since I have to leave Mac, and learn Microsoft, I need to know a few > things. > > 1. What do Microsofties use instead of Fetch for uploading files for a > website to a server (ftp client)? Well there is a command line ftp client, but it is very crappy. I think ie and firefox can do ftp. Could install cygwin and use ncftp. > 2. Where's my Terminal? I need to find the application in Vista/XP that will > present me with a command line I can summon vi from. Where is that? I tend to do 'windows-R then cmd'. Not much of a command line or terminal of course. cygwin makes a better one for sure. For ssh, putty seems best. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 22:26:43 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:26:43 -0400 Subject: OT: Starting my own computer business In-Reply-To: <2047.66.11.182.5.1177356374.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <2047.66.11.182.5.1177356374.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <462D32A3.8070901@telly.org> Jason Carson wrote: > I am starting up my own computer business. What do you call the paper that > makes a carbon copy (1 for the customer and 1 for me). So I can write down > the bill at the customers house after doing the repair/upgrade. Where can > I get this? > Essentially you want a multi-part pad, that's wither for work-orders (for services) or invoices (for hard goods). You can get pads like this that either use carbon paper (there's a single sheet that you keep moving down, between the original and the copy-to-be). However, there's also a concept of "carbonless" multipart forms, that use special paper on each original. Carbonless forms are more convenient and much easier to find these days, but they're messier and worse for the environment because they can't be recycled. One source I've worked with before is NEBS, that can custom print your company name on the invoices for that little touch of stability. http://www.nebs.ca/canEcat/products/categories/forms.jsp Another forms company is Blueline, whose stuff is sold everywhere from Staples to WalMart: http://www.bluelineinc.com/vw/fs/p014.htm (Of course, if you really want to impress people you would eventually custom-print your own forms, using a laptop and a portable printer. That way you can download the work info directly into your accounting system (and sooner or later, you _will_ have an accounting system if you're serious about this...) HTH, Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From edchin99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 21:31:26 2007 From: edchin99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (=?UTF-8?B?RWQg0K3QtNC00Lgg6Zmz5a2Q5p2+?=) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:31:26 -0300 Subject: starting own business In-Reply-To: <462D0EB3.4090608-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <462D0EB3.4090608@rogers.com> Message-ID: <462D25AE.3070806@gmail.com> John McGregor wrote: >> I am starting up my own computer business. What do you call the paper that >> makes a carbon copy (1 for the customer and 1 for me). So I can write down >> the bill at the customers house after doing the repair/upgrade. Where can >> I get this? > You'll want an Invoice book or Sales book and you will find a large > selection at Grand and Toy or Staples. Also use the NCR (no carbon required) type if you can find them. They're a lot less messier than carbons. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 22:51:48 2007 From: erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Frank (Erebus)) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:51:48 -0400 Subject: Kubuntu 7.04 Problem Install In-Reply-To: <20070423133006.GM5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> <200704222106.09705.erebus@rogers.com> <20070423133006.GM5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200704231851.48227.erebus@rogers.com> On Monday 23 April 2007 09:30, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Did you check the md5sum on the images you downloaded? > > Any reason you can't do a netinstall? Way less stupid pointless > downloading. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- md5sums are fine. And net upgrade has issues part way through (can't remember where) Frank -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 23:41:58 2007 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:41:58 -0400 Subject: OT: Starting my own computer business In-Reply-To: <2047.66.11.182.5.1177356374.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <2047.66.11.182.5.1177356374.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <462D4446.9060501@gmail.com> Say that you need the written invoice to generate the computer invoice that you will email to them the next day. Dont forget to get their email address! 99% of clients dont have a problem with that. Jason Carson wrote: > Greetings, > > I am starting up my own computer business. What do you call the paper that > makes a carbon copy (1 for the customer and 1 for me). So I can write down > the bill at the customers house after doing the repair/upgrade. Where can > I get this? > > Jason Carson > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 23:42:30 2007 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:42:30 -0400 Subject: The battle for wireless network drivers Message-ID: <1177371750.7735.1185931953@webmail.messagingengine.com> December 2006 survey of the state of Linux wireless chipset support. Definitely worth reading, especially for the bit where the author contacts hardware vendors to try to get a straight answer on their disclosure policies. http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/content/view/293 ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 23 23:53:46 2007 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:53:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Starting my own computer business In-Reply-To: <462D32A3.8070901-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <2047.66.11.182.5.1177356374.squirrel@canuckster.org> <462D32A3.8070901@telly.org> Message-ID: <2173.66.11.182.5.1177372426.squirrel@canuckster.org> > Jason Carson wrote: >> I am starting up my own computer business. What do you call the paper >> that >> makes a carbon copy (1 for the customer and 1 for me). So I can write >> down >> the bill at the customers house after doing the repair/upgrade. Where >> can >> I get this? >> > Essentially you want a multi-part pad, that's wither for work-orders > (for services) or invoices (for hard goods). > > You can get pads like this that either use carbon paper (there's a > single sheet that you keep moving down, between the original and the > copy-to-be). However, there's also a concept of "carbonless" multipart > forms, that use special paper on each original. > > Carbonless forms are more convenient and much easier to find these days, > but they're messier and worse for the environment because they can't be > recycled. > > One source I've worked with before is NEBS, that can custom print your > company name on the invoices for that little touch of stability. > http://www.nebs.ca/canEcat/products/categories/forms.jsp > > Another forms company is Blueline, whose stuff is sold everywhere from > Staples to WalMart: > http://www.bluelineinc.com/vw/fs/p014.htm > > > (Of course, if you really want to impress people you would eventually > custom-print your own forms, using a laptop and a portable printer. That > way you can download the work info directly into your accounting system > (and sooner or later, you _will_ have an accounting system if you're > serious about this...) Is there any software you would recommend for this? > HTH, > > Evan > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 00:05:02 2007 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:05:02 -0400 Subject: OT: Starting my own computer business In-Reply-To: <462D4446.9060501-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <462D4446.9060501@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5F47429283BD2A4C8FF1106E3F27F4730311D962@mse2be2.mse2.exchange.ms> Go professional....this is what I did this year...solved lots of receivable problems... 1. laptop. 2. bluetooth printer (HP 460 is a great model..battery on it..charge it once a week..does a couple pages a day). Fits in my old samsonite hard side briefcase... 3. dare I say it...Quickbooks...(yes, 95% of my support is windows...I put in linux and see it 2-3 years later only if a hard drive or power supply fails...otherwise forget about i)... Do an invoice right on site. One invoice, single number to track...etc...then you don't fall behind on your paperwork as I've learned over the past 12 years...paperwork is my biggets issue..never time to catch up....always something new to occupy my time in the "down times" Just my $0.02. D. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of teddymills Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 7:42 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: Starting my own computer business Say that you need the written invoice to generate the computer invoice that you will email to them the next day. Dont forget to get their email address! 99% of clients dont have a problem with that. Jason Carson wrote: > Greetings, > > I am starting up my own computer business. What do you call the paper > that makes a carbon copy (1 for the customer and 1 for me). So I can > write down the bill at the customers house after doing the > repair/upgrade. Where can I get this? > > Jason Carson > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How > to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 00:31:15 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:31:15 -0400 Subject: Welcome to Microsoft !!! In-Reply-To: <20070423204156.GA8540-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <462CEC8E.4020306@rogers.com> <7ac602420704231050m6f7b11b0ncd8a28284975fca@mail.gmail.com> <462CF9C9.3030402@rogers.com> <20070423204156.GA8540@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <462D4FD3.2050307@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 02:24:09PM -0400, James Knott wrote > > >> It's terrible, even without comparison to bash. It's worse than the >> command line in earlier versions of Windows or even good(?) ol' DOSKEY >> > > Actually, DOSKEY is a command in the XP DOS shell, so it may still be > in Vista. > > The thing I dislike about the command prompt in XP is when you want to recall a previous command, you don't know whether to use the up or down arrow. In earlier versions of Windows, it was consistent. You used up arrow to move back and down arrow to move forward through the history, just like in Linux. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 00:34:28 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:34:28 -0400 Subject: starting own business In-Reply-To: <462D25AE.3070806-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <462D0EB3.4090608@rogers.com> <462D25AE.3070806@gmail.com> Message-ID: <462D5094.2070603@rogers.com> Ed ???? ??? wrote: > John McGregor wrote: >>> I am starting up my own computer business. What do you call the >>> paper that >>> makes a carbon copy (1 for the customer and 1 for me). So I can >>> write down >>> the bill at the customers house after doing the repair/upgrade. >>> Where can >>> I get this? >> You'll want an Invoice book or Sales book and you will find a large >> selection at Grand and Toy or Staples. > > Also use the NCR (no carbon required) type if you can find them. > They're a lot less messier than carbons. http://www.aerias.org/DesktopModules/ArticleDetail.aspx?articleId=54 -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 00:44:56 2007 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:44:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: starting own business In-Reply-To: <462D5094.2070603-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <462D0EB3.4090608@rogers.com> <462D25AE.3070806@gmail.com> <462D5094.2070603@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4309.66.11.182.5.1177375496.squirrel@canuckster.org> > Ed ???????? ????????? wrote: >> John McGregor wrote: >>>> I am starting up my own computer business. What do you call the >>>> paper that >>>> makes a carbon copy (1 for the customer and 1 for me). So I can >>>> write down >>>> the bill at the customers house after doing the repair/upgrade. >>>> Where can >>>> I get this? >>> You'll want an Invoice book or Sales book and you will find a large >>> selection at Grand and Toy or Staples. >> >> Also use the NCR (no carbon required) type if you can find them. >> They're a lot less messier than carbons. > > http://www.aerias.org/DesktopModules/ArticleDetail.aspx?articleId=54 Good to know, won't be using those! > > -- > Use OpenOffice.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jonzou-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 01:18:54 2007 From: jonzou-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jon) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:18:54 -0400 Subject: Welcome to Microsoft !!! In-Reply-To: <462D4FD3.2050307-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <462CEC8E.4020306@rogers.com> <7ac602420704231050m6f7b11b0ncd8a28284975fca@mail.gmail.com> <462CF9C9.3030402@rogers.com> <20070423204156.GA8540@waltdnes.org> <462D4FD3.2050307@rogers.com> Message-ID: <3009c0a80704231818i30823a48jf57ab6027b7a15c3@mail.gmail.com> about the command shell,has anyone try cygwin on vista?It's perfect for linux users,nearly everything you need ssh vi gcc perl python etc,I even run sqsh within it to admin sql server. On 4/23/07, James Knott wrote: > > Walter Dnes wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 02:24:09PM -0400, James Knott wrote > > > > > >> It's terrible, even without comparison to bash. It's worse than the > >> command line in earlier versions of Windows or even good(?) ol' DOSKEY > >> > > > > Actually, DOSKEY is a command in the XP DOS shell, so it may still be > > in Vista. > > > > > The thing I dislike about the command prompt in XP is when you want to > recall a previous command, you don't know whether to use the up or down > arrow. In earlier versions of Windows, it was consistent. You used up > arrow to move back and down arrow to move forward through the history, > just like in Linux. > > > -- > Use OpenOffice.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 02:17:13 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:17:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Speaker for May 8 Message-ID: Sorry for the short notice but anyone interested in speaking at the May 8 talk? Also available: June, July, August, September... :) Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 02:48:00 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:48:00 -0400 Subject: Speaker for May 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <462D6FE0.5010402@utoronto.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: > Sorry for the short notice but anyone interested in speaking at the May > 8 talk? Also available: June, July, August, September... :) > > Cheers, J.T.S Moore of Revolution OS directorial, writerly, and production fame has said that we can screen the film. I think Teddy also got in touch with him. I'll dig up the email and forward it to the list. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 03:07:47 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:07:47 -0400 Subject: ssh won't allow non-root users to login on centos Message-ID: Anyone seen this before ? I can do rsync with a non-root user I can login with the root user what I can't seem to do is get a pts ? I've disabled selinux Here's the last bit of the logs from sshd Apr 24 11:07:52 langstaff sshd[3941]: debug1: restore_uid: 0/0 Apr 24 11:07:52 langstaff sshd[3941]: debug3: mm_answer_keyallowed: key 0x9be41d8 is allowed Apr 24 11:07:52 langstaff sshd[3941]: debug3: mm_request_send entering: type 22 Apr 24 11:07:52 langstaff sshd[3941]: debug3: mm_request_receive entering Apr 24 15:07:52 langstaff sshd[3942]: debug3: mm_key_verify entering Apr 24 15:07:52 langstaff sshd[3942]: debug3: mm_request_send entering: type 23 Apr 24 15:07:52 langstaff sshd[3942]: debug3: mm_key_verify: waiting for MONITOR_ANS_KEYVERIFY Apr 24 11:07:52 langstaff sshd[3941]: debug3: monitor_read: checking request 23 Apr 24 15:07:52 langstaff sshd[3942]: debug3: mm_request_receive_expect entering: type 24 Apr 24 15:07:52 langstaff sshd[3942]: debug3: mm_request_receive entering Apr 24 15:07:52 langstaff sshd[3942]: debug1: do_cleanup Apr 24 15:07:52 langstaff sshd[3942]: debug1: PAM: cleanup Apr 24 15:07:52 langstaff sshd[3942]: debug3: PAM: sshpam_thread_cleanup entering Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 03:23:17 2007 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David C. Chipman) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:23:17 -0400 Subject: ssh won't allow non-root users to login on centos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070423232317.1641c82b@david.chipman> Hi David, I was wondering, could you post your sshd_config file, please? Thank you, -David Chipman -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 04:18:35 2007 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 00:18:35 -0400 Subject: ssh won't allow non-root users to login on centos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070424041835.C49B783833@sarg.ryerson.ca> The other thing that bites me occasionally is permissions on ~davec and ~davec/.ssh - if they are writable by group or other, you won't be able to ssh in. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 10:54:00 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 06:54:00 -0400 Subject: ssh won't allow non-root users to login on centos In-Reply-To: <20070423232317.1641c82b-lQMCrfjKGrJ3Ex1Y5TzZUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423232317.1641c82b@david.chipman> Message-ID: Sure, Here it is -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: sshd_config URL: -------------- next part -------------- On 23-Apr-07, at 11:23 PM, David C. Chipman wrote: > Hi David, > > I was wondering, could you post your sshd_config file, > please? Thank you, > > -David Chipman > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 10:55:13 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 06:55:13 -0400 Subject: ssh won't allow non-root users to login on centos In-Reply-To: <20070424041835.C49B783833-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20070424041835.C49B783833@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: Dave, but I can get past that, and even if I don't have the public key it accepts the password and then fails later. FWIW, I can do scp .... and copy a file. It's getting a login that's the problem. Dave On 24-Apr-07, at 12:18 AM, Dave Mason wrote: > The other thing that bites me occasionally is permissions on ~davec > and > ~davec/.ssh - if they are writable by group or other, you won't be > able > to ssh in. > > ../Dave > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 11:52:58 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 07:52:58 -0400 Subject: starting own business In-Reply-To: <462D5094.2070603-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <462D0EB3.4090608@rogers.com> <462D25AE.3070806@gmail.com> <462D5094.2070603@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990704240452w70ebeb9cvd1ba05a7dacccdf7@mail.gmail.com> On 4/23/07, James Knott wrote: > > Also use the NCR (no carbon required) type if you can find them. > > They're a lot less messier than carbons. > > http://www.aerias.org/DesktopModules/ArticleDetail.aspx?articleId=54 That article links to http://www.carbonless.org which is a storehouse of such articles. Whoa. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 12:30:17 2007 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Terry Tanski) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:30:17 -0400 Subject: ssh won't allow non-root users to login on centos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <462DF859.5090001@cogeco.ca> Dave Cramer wrote: > Anyone seen this before ? > > I can do rsync with a non-root user > I can login with the root user > what I can't seem to do is get a pts ? > I've disabled selinux Did you check to see if the shell assigned to the user exists and is listed in /etc/shells? Terry -- Terry Tanski, BSc RHCE Email: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 13:01:53 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:01:53 -0400 Subject: ssh won't allow non-root users to login on centos In-Reply-To: <462DF859.5090001-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <462DF859.5090001@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <837743C9-3D21-4DDB-A333-3BCBE69577B7@visibleassets.com> On 24-Apr-07, at 8:30 AM, Terry Tanski wrote: > Dave Cramer wrote: >> Anyone seen this before ? >> I can do rsync with a non-root user >> I can login with the root user >> what I can't seem to do is get a pts ? >> I've disabled selinux > > Did you check to see if the shell assigned to the user exists and > is listed in /etc/shells? > Yup! > Terry > > -- > > Terry Tanski, BSc RHCE > Email: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 13:14:47 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:14:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: IT360 Volunteer Rules Message-ID: <648267.54010.qm@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> What follows is the rules for volunteers at the IT360 show. Keep in mind that on some points I am constrained by the rules set out by the show organizers (yes I have received some negative feedback when I offered the following to ... a smaller mailing list). Still, if there is a real problem with any one of the below points , if it is something that the show organizers will let us change I would be happy to listen and adjust. Volunteer Rules: Our goal at this show is to offer a positive view of Linux and the Linux community to corporate decision makers. So, the follow rules are in place. Personal maintenance: - Here we are stealing the 6-2-1 rule from the World Science Fiction Convention for volunteers, namely all volunteers are expected to have at least: - 6 hours of sleep per 24 hours - 2 solid meals per 24 hours - 1 bath or shower per 24 hours For the non-bald volunteers, it will be expected that said hair will have been recently washed. Business: - Non-GTALug business must be kept away from the booth, to places like a nearby coffee shop. Dress Code: - Dress code will be business casual. This means: - For men shirts with a collar, - For men no ties. - For men long pants, no shorts or kilts. - For everyone: - All clothes recently washed (or dry cleaned). - All clothes in good condition (ie: no shirts or pants with holes). - Shoes, no sandals. - No T-shirts. Any volunteers who appear to be in clear violation of the above will be instructed to leave. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 15:07:21 2007 From: paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org (Paul Nash) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:07:21 -0400 Subject: ssh won't allow non-root users to login on centos In-Reply-To: <837743C9-3D21-4DDB-A333-3BCBE69577B7-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <462DF859.5090001@cogeco.ca> <837743C9-3D21-4DDB-A333-3BCBE69577B7@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: I've seen something similar on FreeBSD boxes where I have just done a dump-restore from another machine. If permissions on /var/run (and/or /var/run/ld.so.hints) are hosed, bash (my usual use shell) will not start for a non-root user, while csh (my usual root shell) works fine. On linux you probably want to look at your load library cache. paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 15:19:23 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft for Linux people In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <926115.13291.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> One of the problems I have had in talking with potential employers is my lack of Windows skills (in particular lack of experience with Active directory) in mixed Unix/Linux/Windows environments. So, how does a Linux guy get enough Windows skills function supporting a mixed environment? Community college courses? Any on-line courses? Other? Thanks. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 15:24:11 2007 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:24:11 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: <20070423004356.GA6531-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <462E211B.2090009@utoronto.ca> William Park wrote: > Just a question for those of you with Mac... > > - Why do you (supposedly Linux guys) have Mac? > - How does Mac help you in a way that Linux doesn't? > - Do you use Mac for your Linux/Unix related tasks? > - After using them both, have you given up on Mac? Or, Linux? > > In other word, convince me to buy a Mac for myself, and not just as > present. :-) Hmmmmm, I could write a book on this. I bought my PowerBook 2 years ago with the expectation of running Linux on it. I never got around to it. Mac OS X IS a unix operating system. I think more Linux related stuff has been ported to OS X than to Windows. The printing subsystem on Mac is CUPS. The Terminal application uses Bash as its shell. One caveat, I had to upgrade to Tiger to take advantage of some of plugins for Eclipse. Tiger now comes with all the new Apple systems. My PowerBook is amazingly quiet for the most part, (yeah accessing the DVD drive is really noisy.) One can boot the PowerBook and most Apple systems I believe in Firewire target mode. It basically turns the system into an external hard disk which can be hot mounted on another system (useful if you need to access the data and the drive won't boot). If you need to disable this feature you can use Open Firmware Password Protection. For more info check out Apple's site and click on Mac OS X. Take care, Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 15:24:23 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:24:23 -0400 Subject: Microsoft for Linux people In-Reply-To: <926115.13291.qm-p6KvMhi7PWKB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <926115.13291.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070424152423.GD6978@watson-wilson.ca> On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 11:19:23AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >a Linux guy get enough Windows skills function >supporting a mixed environment? Community college >courses? Any on-line courses? Other? www.oreilly.com You can learn more reading those books than most course will teach you. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 11:23:35 up 18:20, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 15:26:24 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:26:24 -0400 Subject: ssh won't allow non-root users to login on centos In-Reply-To: References: <20070424041835.C49B783833@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20070424152624.GS5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 06:55:13AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > but I can get past that, and even if I don't have the public key it > accepts the password and then fails later. > > FWIW, I can do scp .... and copy a file. It's getting a login that's > the problem. Did you put something broken in your shell's config file for interactive shells? scp runs as a noninteractive shell so it wouldn't run those commands, but ssh would since that starts an interactive shell. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 15:29:01 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:29:01 -0400 Subject: Microsoft for Linux people In-Reply-To: <926115.13291.qm-p6KvMhi7PWKB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <926115.13291.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070424152901.GT5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 11:19:23AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > One of the problems I have had in talking with > potential employers is my lack of Windows skills (in > particular lack of experience with Active directory) > in mixed Unix/Linux/Windows environments. So, how does > a Linux guy get enough Windows skills function > supporting a mixed environment? Community college > courses? Any on-line courses? Other? I try to know enough about windows to fix many of the usual problems, but little enough that no one will ever try to make me a windows admin again. Don't want to do that again. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 15:31:16 2007 From: gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jing) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:31:16 -0400 Subject: ssh won't allow non-root users to login on centos In-Reply-To: References: <20070423232317.1641c82b@david.chipman> Message-ID: I think SSHD defaults to disallowing root logins. Try changing the line: #PermitRootLogin no to: PermitRootLogin yes On 4/24/07, Dave Cramer wrote: > Sure, > > Here it is > > > On 23-Apr-07, at 11:23 PM, David C. Chipman wrote: > > > Hi David, > > > > I was wondering, could you post your sshd_config file, > > please? Thank you, > > > > -David Chipman > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 14:39:10 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:39:10 -0400 Subject: Microsoft for Linux people In-Reply-To: <20070424152901.GT5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <926115.13291.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070424152901.GT5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1177425550.3198.177.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Tue, 2007-04-24 at 11:29 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I try to know enough about windows to fix many of the usual problems, > but little enough that no one will ever try to make me a windows admin > again. Don't want to do that again. Like will all OSes experience is everything. There are lots of books and courses out there but the real test is going to be working with the product for long enough that you get used to the subtleties. An MS user group may be an option to help add to that experience (via others). One sprung up last year here in Waterloo. It seemed heavily supported by Microsoft and I suspect that it is an MS attempt at cultivating and astro-turf movement. You may find the same in the GTA. Nowadays you will also find that MS puts on a lot of free seminars. Get plugged into their mailing lists go to the events and you could end up with free copies of OS software as well as cursory training on features and usable howtos. I go to bring a little balance to the group. I've had articles posted and presented on Open Source topics. Some of these IT professionals had no idea open source was out there. As an aside, I find it disturbing that we've seen two posts from people moving to Microsoft. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 15:46:32 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:46:32 -0400 Subject: ssh won't allow non-root users to login on centos In-Reply-To: References: <20070423232317.1641c82b@david.chipman> Message-ID: <20070424154632.GU5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 11:31:16AM -0400, jing wrote: > I think SSHD defaults to disallowing root logins. > Try changing the line: > #PermitRootLogin no > to: > PermitRootLogin yes Except I think the problem was that _only_ root could login. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 15:46:40 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:46:40 -0400 Subject: Microsoft for Linux people In-Reply-To: <926115.13291.qm-p6KvMhi7PWKB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <926115.13291.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <462E2660.1090609@utoronto.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > One of the problems I have had in talking with > potential employers is my lack of Windows skills (in > particular lack of experience with Active directory) > in mixed Unix/Linux/Windows environments. So, how does > a Linux guy get enough Windows skills function > supporting a mixed environment? Community college > courses? Any on-line courses? Other? Just use it. QEMU, VMware etc., you can easily setup a VM without having to do any partitioning. You can download free evaluation versions of their server products that are good for 180 days IIRC. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 15:47:41 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:47:41 -0400 Subject: Microsoft for Linux people In-Reply-To: <1177425550.3198.177.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <926115.13291.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070424152901.GT5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1177425550.3198.177.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <20070424154741.GV5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 10:39:10AM -0400, John Van Ostrand wrote: > Like will all OSes experience is everything. There are lots of books and > courses out there but the real test is going to be working with the > product for long enough that you get used to the subtleties. > > An MS user group may be an option to help add to that experience (via > others). One sprung up last year here in Waterloo. It seemed heavily > supported by Microsoft and I suspect that it is an MS attempt at > cultivating and astro-turf movement. You may find the same in the GTA. > > Nowadays you will also find that MS puts on a lot of free seminars. Get > plugged into their mailing lists go to the events and you could end up > with free copies of OS software as well as cursory training on features > and usable howtos. > > I go to bring a little balance to the group. I've had articles posted > and presented on Open Source topics. Some of these IT professionals had > no idea open source was out there. > > As an aside, I find it disturbing that we've seen two posts from people > moving to Microsoft. Well one was moving mac to windows, so that hardly counts as a big deal. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 15:47:34 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:47:34 -0400 Subject: Microsoft for Linux people In-Reply-To: <926115.13291.qm-p6KvMhi7PWKB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <926115.13291.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <462E2696.9080000@utoronto.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > One of the problems I have had in talking with > potential employers is my lack of Windows skills (in > particular lack of experience with Active directory) > in mixed Unix/Linux/Windows environments. So, how does > a Linux guy get enough Windows skills function > supporting a mixed environment? Community college > courses? Any on-line courses? Other? Just use it. QEMU, VMware etc., you can easily setup a VM without having to do any partitioning. You can download free evaluation versions of their (Microsoft's) server products that are good for 180 days IIRC. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 15:48:22 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:48:22 -0400 Subject: Microsoft for Linux people In-Reply-To: <462E2660.1090609-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <926115.13291.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <462E2660.1090609@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070424154822.GW5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 11:46:40AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Just use it. QEMU, VMware etc., you can easily setup a VM without having > to do any partitioning. You can download free evaluation versions of > their server products that are good for 180 days IIRC. Vmware server is free forever (well at least you can use the current version as long as you want) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 15:59:08 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:59:08 -0400 Subject: Microsoft for Linux people In-Reply-To: <20070424154822.GW5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <926115.13291.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <462E2660.1090609@utoronto.ca> <20070424154822.GW5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <462E294C.7040001@utoronto.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 11:46:40AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> Just use it. QEMU, VMware etc., you can easily setup a VM without having >> to do any partitioning. You can download free evaluation versions of >> their server products that are good for 180 days IIRC. > > Vmware server is free forever (well at least you can use the current > version as long as you want) Argh, network latency badness. I meant to say Microsoft Server products. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 16:05:46 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:05:46 -0400 Subject: Microsoft for Linux people In-Reply-To: <1177425550.3198.177.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <926115.13291.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070424152901.GT5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1177425550.3198.177.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <462E2ADA.8050306@telly.org> John Van Ostrand wrote: > An MS user group may be an option to help add to that experience (via > others). One sprung up last year here in Waterloo. It seemed heavily > supported by Microsoft and I suspect that it is an MS attempt at > cultivating and astro-turf movement. You may find the same in the GTA. > Much as it may turn my stomach, I'd be hesitant to call such groups astroturf. Open source doesn't have a monopoly on computer user groups, and Microsoft's sponsoring them is not anymore insidious as Red Hat sponsoring a LUG or Oreilly sending free swag. >From certain perspectives, Linux User Groups are helping to lobby and recruit for things that profit Novell and IBM, and Windows groups are no more evil than that. In any case, there's been a PC user group in Toronto for ages (http://www.pcct.org/). I don't ever recall it getting MS money. > As an aside, I find it disturbing that we've seen two posts from people moving to Microsoft. > "Having to hold their nose and work with" != "moving to". Microsoft is out there. Linux and open source has made strong headway -- far deeper than Unix or OS/2 ever did -- but there is a lot of inertia to overcome. Furthermore, Microsoft has made "good enough" an art form, and in many cases open source may be superior, but not better _enough_ to force a compelling reason to switch. In the meantime, an increasing number of hybrid environments are IMO Good News, since they indicate the rising number of Windows shops experimenting with mixed environments. And let's face it, there are many more Windows shops moving to mixed environments than Linux shops. For every Linux admin needing to learn enough Windows, there are a hundred with the opposite problem. - Evan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3837 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 16:10:48 2007 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:10:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Speaker for May 8 In-Reply-To: <462D6FE0.5010402-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <462D6FE0.5010402@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Apr 2007, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Robert Brockway wrote: >> Sorry for the short notice but anyone interested in speaking at the May 8 >> talk? Also available: June, July, August, September... :) >> >> Cheers, > > J.T.S Moore of Revolution OS directorial, writerly, and production fame has > said that we can screen the film. I think Teddy also got in touch with him. > I'll dig up the email and forward it to the list. Great. Let's schedule this for May. I've never actually seen it :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 16:13:03 2007 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:13:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ssh won't allow non-root users to login on centos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <634831.87550.qm@web60111.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dave Cramer wrote: > Anyone seen this before ? > > I can do rsync with a non-root user > I can login with the root user > what I can't seem to do is get a pts ? > >From the root prompt, do a "su - user" and also "su user". Do you get a shell for the user? In "grep root /etc/passwd" and same for the non-root user, is the last column the same? If you create a new "test" user, can you ssh in? If you ssh as root, can you get another session (pts) if you ssh again as root while the first session is still on? Fernando --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com Get news delivered with the All new Yahoo! Mail. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. Start today at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 16:18:05 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:18:05 -0400 Subject: ssh won't allow non-root users to login on centos In-Reply-To: <20070424154632.GU5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423232317.1641c82b@david.chipman> <20070424154632.GU5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <591035D4-6258-426B-BC1F-C93A4794B601@visibleassets.com> On 24-Apr-07, at 11:46 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 11:31:16AM -0400, jing wrote: >> I think SSHD defaults to disallowing root logins. >> Try changing the line: >> #PermitRootLogin no >> to: >> PermitRootLogin yes > > Except I think the problem was that _only_ root could login. > Yes this is the problem. Dave > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 16:20:28 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:20:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft for Linux people In-Reply-To: <20070424154741.GV5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070424154741.GV5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <561989.32399.qm@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 10:39:10AM -0400, John Van > Ostrand wrote: > > Like will all OSes experience is everything. There > are lots of books and > > courses out there but the real test is going to be > working with the > > product for long enough that you get used to the > subtleties. > > > > An MS user group may be an option to help add to > that experience (via > > others). One sprung up last year here in Waterloo. > It seemed heavily > > supported by Microsoft and I suspect that it is an > MS attempt at > > cultivating and astro-turf movement. You may find > the same in the GTA. > > > > Nowadays you will also find that MS puts on a lot > of free seminars. Get > > plugged into their mailing lists go to the events > and you could end up > > with free copies of OS software as well as cursory > training on features > > and usable howtos. > > > > I go to bring a little balance to the group. I've > had articles posted > > and presented on Open Source topics. Some of these > IT professionals had > > no idea open source was out there. > > > > As an aside, I find it disturbing that we've seen > two posts from people > > moving to Microsoft. > > Well one was moving mac to windows, so that hardly > counts as a big deal. > :) The idea of going to Microsoft by itself has very little appeal to me (...make that zero). I would be very happy to continue on with my life centred around Linux/FreeBSD. On the other hand on the job front I have had far too long, too dry a season, so knowledge that will noticeably improve my employment prospects is a real interest at this point in my life. Further IF I am going to take a college or university course over the summer, this is something I need to be jumping on now... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 16:30:17 2007 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:30:17 -0400 Subject: Microsoft for Linux People Message-ID: <462E3099.8010801@rogers.com> I took CITM315 at Ryerson. It's billed as an intro to network management but it's really hands-on training in Windows Server 2003. I had no trouble passing it and I doubt that you would either. As a bonus, the instructor, Fahrid Shirazi, is an active Windows sys-admin who also has Linux+ certification (= no attitude towards us FOSS types). I don't think that the course (alone) would equip you to pass a certification exam, but certainly you have the experience to fill in the few blanks. http://ce-online.ryerson.ca/ce/calendar/default.asp?section=course&sub=subject&subject={A2139620-A3B1-11D4-AE93-00E029501EB1}&mode=course&ccode=CITM%20315 apologies for the long link John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 16:31:31 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:31:31 -0400 Subject: Microsoft for Linux people In-Reply-To: <561989.32399.qm-Kg4S4JJQdT6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070424154741.GV5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <561989.32399.qm@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070424163131.GX5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 12:20:28PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > The idea of going to Microsoft by itself has very > little appeal to me (...make that zero). I would be > very happy to continue on with my life centred around > Linux/FreeBSD. On the other hand on the job front I > have had far too long, too dry a season, so knowledge > that will noticeably improve my employment prospects > is a real interest at this point in my life. > > Further IF I am going to take a college or university > course over the summer, this is something I need to be > jumping on now... I have been lucky enough to manage to have jobs involving programing on linux so far. At university we used unix systems exclusively (I think maybe a first year course in pascal was on macs). Seemed like a great system to me. Co-op jobs often involved windows, but what can you do. Some of them involved unix systems instead which was always much more pleasant to work with. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 16:49:55 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:49:55 -0400 Subject: Fwd: IT360 Volunteer Rules In-Reply-To: <648267.54010.qm-2K+iNxKRQwOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <648267.54010.qm@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <462E3533.4000202@utoronto.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > What follows is the rules for volunteers at the IT360 > show. > > Keep in mind that on some points I am constrained by > the rules set out by the show organizers (yes I have > received some negative feedback when I offered the > following to ... a smaller mailing list). Still, if > there is a real problem with any one of the below > points , if it is something that the show organizers > will let us change I would be happy to listen and > adjust. > > Volunteer Rules: > > Our goal at this show is to offer a positive view of > Linux and the Linux community to corporate decision > makers. So, the follow rules are in place. > > Personal maintenance: > > - Here we are stealing the 6-2-1 rule from the World > Science Fiction Convention for volunteers, namely all > volunteers are expected to have at least: > > - 6 hours of sleep per 24 hours > - 2 solid meals per 24 hours > - 1 bath or shower per 24 hours > > For the non-bald volunteers, it will be expected that > said hair will have been recently washed. > > Business: > > - Non-GTALug business must be kept away from the > booth, to places like a nearby coffee shop. > > Dress Code: > > - Dress code will be business casual. This means: > - For men shirts with a collar, > - For men no ties. > - For men long pants, no shorts or kilts. > - For everyone: > - All clothes recently washed (or dry cleaned). > - All clothes in good condition (ie: no shirts > or pants with holes). > - Shoes, no sandals. > - No T-shirts. > > Any volunteers who appear to be in clear violation of > the above will be instructed to leave. What's up with the kilts thing?? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 17:21:50 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:21:50 -0400 Subject: Fwd: IT360 Volunteer Rules In-Reply-To: <462E3533.4000202-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <648267.54010.qm@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <462E3533.4000202@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20070424172150.GY5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 12:49:55PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > > What's up with the kilts thing?? Apparently they only want to see the legs of women at the show. Or maybe they have something against scotish clothing. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 17:22:12 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:22:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: IT360 Volunteer Rules In-Reply-To: <462E3533.4000202-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <462E3533.4000202@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <737902.58388.qm@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Jamon Camisso wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > > What follows is the rules for volunteers at the > IT360 > > show. > > > > Keep in mind that on some points I am constrained > by > > the rules set out by the show organizers (yes I > have > > received some negative feedback when I offered the > > following to ... a smaller mailing list). Still, > if > > there is a real problem with any one of the below > > points , if it is something that the show > organizers > > will let us change I would be happy to listen and > > adjust. > > > > Volunteer Rules: > > > > Our goal at this show is to offer a positive view > of > > Linux and the Linux community to corporate > decision > > makers. So, the follow rules are in place. > > > > Personal maintenance: > > > > - Here we are stealing the 6-2-1 rule from the > World > > Science Fiction Convention for volunteers, namely > all > > volunteers are expected to have at least: > > > > - 6 hours of sleep per 24 hours > > - 2 solid meals per 24 hours > > - 1 bath or shower per 24 hours > > > > For the non-bald volunteers, it will be expected > that > > said hair will have been recently washed. > > > > Business: > > > > - Non-GTALug business must be kept away from the > > booth, to places like a nearby coffee shop. > > > > Dress Code: > > > > - Dress code will be business casual. This means: > > - For men shirts with a collar, > > - For men no ties. > > - For men long pants, no shorts or kilts. > > - For everyone: > > - All clothes recently washed (or dry > cleaned). > > - All clothes in good condition (ie: no > shirts > > or pants with holes). > > - Shoes, no sandals. > > - No T-shirts. > > > > Any volunteers who appear to be in clear violation > of > > the above will be instructed to leave. > > What's up with the kilts thing?? > > Jamon We have had various ... odd ... clothing suggestions for the show. My father owned a kilt (guess which tartan (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartan) :-) ). and he would from time to time wear it, with the sporran, (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporran) sports jacket, tie, knee socks, leather shoes, etc.. All in its own odd way quite nice, and elegant. Problem is, we are geeks and MOST of us (Gordon Chillcott being the one exception I can think of) are not seen in a workplace (other than the male members of the group in an interview) with a jacket and tie. We are not "suits" and attempting that look, basically goes badly for us (yes we did try it at the first Linux World Canada show). Now a kilt without the sports jacket and tie (or sports jacket and ... "puffy" shirt) typically looks more barbarian than elegant... Here our goal is to make the suits understand that Linux is a SAFE choice and GTALug can help anyone interested in learning more about Linux. Like it or not, looks do count... So, basically the goal is to have folks looking like the sort of people you would find in a professional, but relaxed IT department (that middle ground between suits and ratty looking T-shirts...). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 19:37:07 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 15:37:07 -0400 Subject: Fwd: IT360 Volunteer Rules In-Reply-To: <737902.58388.qm-XddnEKhDJlqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <462E3533.4000202@utoronto.ca> <737902.58388.qm@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070424193707.GZ5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 01:22:12PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > We have had various ... odd ... clothing suggestions > for the show. My father owned a kilt (guess which > tartan (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartan) :-) ). and he > would from time to time wear it, with the sporran, > (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporran) sports jacket, tie, > knee socks, leather shoes, etc.. All in its own odd > way quite nice, and elegant. It sure looks impresive when done right (My wife is a MacLeod, so I have seen her family doing it right. Fortunately they seem to avoid the MacLeod "Loud" tartan (see http://www.clan-macleod-scotland.org.uk/tartans.php) and go for the less loud choice. She does own a kilt in the yellow tartan that she used to use in the past, with matching tartan sox.) > Problem is, we are geeks and MOST of us (Gordon > Chillcott being the one exception I can think of) are > not seen in a workplace (other than the male members > of the group in an interview) with a jacket and tie. > We are not "suits" and attempting that look, basically > goes badly for us (yes we did try it at the first > Linux World Canada show). I thought sales people wore suits and ties, while everyone else would just wear something more casual. :) > Now a kilt without the sports jacket and tie (or > sports jacket and ... "puffy" shirt) typically looks > more barbarian than elegant... Here our goal is to > make the suits understand that Linux is a SAFE choice > and GTALug can help anyone interested in learning more > about Linux. > > Like it or not, looks do count... > > So, basically the goal is to have folks looking like > the sort of people you would find in a professional, > but relaxed IT department (that middle ground between > suits and ratty looking T-shirts...). Seems like the right goal. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 19:47:49 2007 From: myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 15:47:49 -0400 Subject: Fwd: IT360 Volunteer Rules In-Reply-To: <20070424193707.GZ5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <462E3533.4000202@utoronto.ca> <737902.58388.qm@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20070424193707.GZ5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <462E5EE5.5000804@monkeyinyoursoul.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I thought sales people wore suits and ties, while everyone else would > just wear something more casual. :) > Actuality that bring up a good point. Are we going to IT360 in the hopes to sell Linux? Or as more of a User Group of sorts? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 20:10:34 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: IT360 Volunteer Rules In-Reply-To: <462E5EE5.5000804-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <462E5EE5.5000804@monkeyinyoursoul.com> Message-ID: <938459.40092.qm@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > I thought sales people wore suits and ties, while > everyone else would > > just wear something more casual. :) > > > > Actuality that bring up a good point. Are we going > to IT360 in the hopes > to sell Linux? Or as more of a User Group of sorts? As a group our goal is to sell GTALug as a resource that can help people learn about Linux. In other words telling suits Linux is a safe choice. If stuff beyond the above happens at the show, great, but keep the non-GTALug stuff away from the booth. For example, Linux Pro Magazine will have a booth at the show. Given my writing for some other publications, visiting that booth will be a priority. If something ... interesting and/or profitable ... happens at that booth, great... if not, well there are a lot of other booths to see / learn from... Part of the reason I overstaffed the booth was just to make sure this sort of thing could easily happen. Nobody should feel tied down to the booth, there should be enough people available that at any given instant most of the volunteers can be learning from some of the other booths, and/or talking side deals... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 20:12:43 2007 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:12:43 -0400 Subject: Fwd: IT360 Volunteer Rules In-Reply-To: <648267.54010.qm-2K+iNxKRQwOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <648267.54010.qm@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200704241612.43529.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 09:14, Colin McGregor wrote: > What follows is the rules for volunteers at the IT360 > show. [snip] > - Dress code will be business casual. This means: > - For men shirts with a collar, > - For men no ties. [snip] > Any volunteers who appear to be in clear violation of > the above will be instructed to leave. [snip] No ties really sounds bizarre. Since when is it no longer acceptable to wear a suit and tie in a professional setting? Also, why are there no specific instructions for women? Dressing inappropriately is hardly the exclusive domain of men. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 20:40:54 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:40:54 -0400 Subject: Fwd: IT360 Volunteer Rules In-Reply-To: <462E3533.4000202-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <648267.54010.qm@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <462E3533.4000202@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <462E6B56.6090706@rogers.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> Dress Code: >> >> - Dress code will be business casual. This means: >> - For men shirts with a collar, - For men no ties. >> - For men long pants, no shorts or kilts. >> - For everyone: >> - All clothes recently washed (or dry cleaned). >> - All clothes in good condition (ie: no shirts >> or pants with holes). >> - Shoes, no sandals. >> - No T-shirts. >> >> Any volunteers who appear to be in clear violation of >> the above will be instructed to leave. > > What's up with the kilts thing?? > Some people with names starting with "McG" like to wear them, to the great embarrassment of all in the vicinity. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 20:47:11 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:47:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: IT360 Volunteer Rules In-Reply-To: <200704241612.43529.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200704241612.43529.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <592051.90421.qm@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On Tuesday 24 April 2007 09:14, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > What follows is the rules for volunteers at the > IT360 > > show. > [snip] > > - Dress code will be business casual. This means: > > - For men shirts with a collar, > > - For men no ties. > [snip] > > Any volunteers who appear to be in clear violation > of > > the above will be instructed to leave. > [snip] > > No ties really sounds bizarre. Since when is it no > longer acceptable > to wear a suit and tie in a professional setting? I don't have a problem with ties, I own enough of them, and I have been in IT jobs where ties were required (about 20 years ago I worked for a firm where EVERY male staff member, regardless as to department was required to wear sports jacket and tie, for the right size pay cheque, that's fine with me :-) ). First time out at the Linux World Canada show (the one where SCO had a booth (how times change :-) )) we tried the business formal look, and let's just say it didn't work out. Since then asking everyone to show up in business casual has worked,and that is what I have attempted to codify in the rules. > Also, why are there no specific instructions for > women? Dressing > inappropriately is hardly the exclusive domain of > men. Very true, there being TV shows basically dedicated to women with little to a bad fashion sense (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Not_to_Wear) but like it or not in OUR society what women can get away with in terms of clothes is a LOT wider than with men. Problem is how to write an short list of fashion does/don't without looking sexist, nasty, etc... What you saw in the rule list was the best I could come up with, and yes, I am open to suggestions as to how it could be improved. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 21:03:20 2007 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:03:20 -0400 Subject: Fwd: IT360 Volunteer Rules In-Reply-To: <592051.90421.qm-Kg4S4JJQdT6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <200704241612.43529.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <592051.90421.qm@web88215.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 24/04/07, Colin McGregor wrote: > What you saw in the rule list was the best I could > come up with, and yes, I am open to suggestions as to > how it could be improved. For starters, rather than Rules + "asked to leave" consequences, how about appealing to the generally high level of intelligence of the LUG, and make "guidelines" or "suggestions". Wanting to appeal to suits by dressin' up is fine, and the request not to have us look like a rag-tag bunch of motley, unkempt geeks (that we are) is fine too, but I think that a lively thread on looking sharp and showered would suffice. I, for one, choose to wear my linuxcaffe t-shirt (for starters) and finding myself in violation of the dress code, rather than risk being ostrich-sized, I will simply spend my time at the show visiting booths that will tolerate that sort of thing. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 21:04:09 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:04:09 -0400 Subject: Linux and gaming - sapling program Message-ID: <1e55af990704241404n15704f96u29623f7a1ee53a53@mail.gmail.com> http://www.fallingleafsystems.com/sapling/ I just signed up for these guys to check them out. I want to see something like this done for the Linux community. I hate the idea of paying a service fee and want to see a one-time translation fee. Yes, I would pay *more* for a game, via a service like this, just so it would work on Linux. It's a teeny tiny setup, with a small forum.. and nothing extra gained for paying (yet), so I can't recommend it unless you're into the idea and don't care about the $50. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 21:13:56 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:13:56 -0400 Subject: Linux and gaming - sapling program In-Reply-To: <1e55af990704241404n15704f96u29623f7a1ee53a53-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990704241404n15704f96u29623f7a1ee53a53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070424211356.GA5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 05:04:09PM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > http://www.fallingleafsystems.com/sapling/ > > I just signed up for these guys to check them out. I want to see > something like this done for the Linux community. I hate the idea of > paying a service fee and want to see a one-time translation fee. Yes, > I would pay *more* for a game, via a service like this, just so it > would work on Linux. > > It's a teeny tiny setup, with a small forum.. and nothing extra gained > for paying (yet), so I can't recommend it unless you're into the idea > and don't care about the $50. =) Hmm, seems interesting, although they seem very lacking on details of what they are actually doing. At least with Loki we knew that they were porting the original game code to SDL/openGL for linux. It sounds like these guys are writing a directx to opengl library and then somehow porting the game or maybe just doing a wrapper around the windows binary. Hard to say with the lack of details they provide. For now I will stick to supporting the few comanies that released linux binaries for their games (I am not done playing NWN yet either). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 21:14:22 2007 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:14:22 -0400 Subject: Who can I contact for information about the teaching field? Message-ID: Hi all, I am a Seneca College student on summer break with computer tutoring experience doing Linux-related and other tutoring. I also have done some small-group teaching in the past. I have Debian and Ubuntu Linux system administration knowledge, some software maintenance experience, and various other skills. I am interested in finding teaching work for the summer, in Toronto, Ottawa, or elsewhere. Is it reasonable to be looking for teaching work for only four months? What are the main companies who do Linux or computer training in Toronto? Who in the field can I contact for more information on the industry? Regards, Jason -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I provide software development and training services to clients worldwide. Contact me for a FREE consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. +1 (416) 781-5938 / Email: info-1hdvTAswZAHQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org / MSN: jasonspiro-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 21:22:07 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:22:07 -0400 Subject: Who can I contact for information about the teaching field? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e55af990704241422q532d14aapb429a11a8348265b@mail.gmail.com> On 4/24/07, Jason Spiro wrote: > I am interested in finding teaching work for the summer, in Toronto, > Ottawa, or elsewhere. Is it reasonable to be looking for teaching > work for only four months? What are the main companies who do Linux > or computer training in Toronto? Who in the field can I contact for > more information on the industry? "teaching" might not be the right word.. perhaps tutoring is better. I know that teachers college exists to bring people up to speed for that field, but I also remember hearing that it's a bit more relaxed for substitute teachers. One good way to begin your research is to pretend to be a student. Put on that hat, and think about how you would look to find tutoring, teaching, etc in this field. Then find those resources.. Then you put on another hat and call them up as yourself, and ask them about positions, job requirements, about the industry, etc. Check these out to see if they could point you in the right direction, in the long term: http://www1.servicecanada.gc.ca/en/subjects/employment/index.shtml http://www.jobsetc.ca/home.jsp?lang=e -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 21:58:09 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:58:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Thank you list. Message-ID: <945279.76409.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Last year at the IT360 show we had a flier with a list of the firms that had been of assistance to GTALug over the previous year, something I want to repeat this year. So, which firms, and/or non-profits have provided assistance to GTALug in any area over the last year, be it in meeting room space, and or equipment loans and/or whatever? Here is my first pass at such a list (in alphabetical order): Afilias IBM Canada Ltd. IT World Expo Canada Linuxcaffe Seneca College of Applied Arts and Technology Systems Software Computer Consulting University of Toronto No doubt I have missed a few names, who else? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 22:06:10 2007 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:06:10 -0400 Subject: ssh won't allow non-root users to login on centos In-Reply-To: <591035D4-6258-426B-BC1F-C93A4794B601-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423232317.1641c82b@david.chipman> <20070424154632.GU5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <591035D4-6258-426B-BC1F-C93A4794B601@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: You might have a look for a file called .nologin in /etc .. I think the startup procedure writes that to disk while it begins starting up, then moves it when everything's running. Presumably, if the startup procedure is interrupted, this file doesn't get removed. The .nologin file is ignored for root logins. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 22:10:11 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:10:11 -0400 Subject: pcHDTV HD-5500 In-Reply-To: <390910.29807.qm-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <390910.29807.qm@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070424221011.GB5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Apr 21, 2007 at 10:46:34AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > I am looking at upgrades to my MythTV box, and one of > the topics I am looking at is getting an HDTV card. In > particular I am interested in the pcHDTV HD-5500 PCI > tuner card (which does support Linux (in fact Windows > is not officially supported :-) ) . So, I have some > questions: > > - Anyone with experience using this card locally? > - Anyone know of a local source for this card (I have > yet to find one)? > - Would there be any interest in putting together a > bulk order with several people getting together in > order to get a volume discount on these cards? I am tempted to get one, but on the other hand putting up an OTA antenna seems like a pain, and other than the time shift channels on rogers cable you wouldn't get much with the QAM tuner since most things are encrypted (like all the local HDTV channels for example). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 22:18:31 2007 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:18:31 -0400 Subject: ssh won't allow non-root users to login on centos In-Reply-To: References: <20070423232317.1641c82b@david.chipman> <20070424154632.GU5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <591035D4-6258-426B-BC1F-C93A4794B601@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <1B7B4D7B-2AE1-4013-A4C3-A8E01C66DBAB@visibleassets.com> On 24-Apr-07, at 6:06 PM, Alex Beamish wrote: > You might have a look for a file called .nologin in /etc .. I think > the startup procedure writes that to disk while it begins starting up, > then moves it when everything's running. Presumably, if the startup > procedure is interrupted, this file doesn't get removed. The .nologin > file is ignored for root logins. > Yup, tried that, it's not there. No matter I'm rebuilding the thing anyway. Probably ubuntu tls-6.0.1 Dave > -- > Alex Beamish > Toronto, Ontario > aka talexb > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 24 23:47:18 2007 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:47:18 -0400 Subject: Linux -> Mac? In-Reply-To: <20070423004356.GA6531-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070423004356.GA6531@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: I used linux exclusively in high school and into university, but at a certain point I wanted to do something other than tweak my laptop and desktop systems. I got a powerbook, which came complete with a bash shell and unix underpinnings, and a fantastic user interface. I run linux on my servers, bsd on the firewall/router, and on the media pc (mythtv is awsome). But for a system that I use to check email, surf the web, and other regular activities, the mac is what I use. None of the linux machines have a monitor attached, and all my administration is done through Terminal on the mac and ssh. So, after using them both I still use them both, just each in their respective niche. I've heard good things about beryl and xgl, but for all that hassle, I could spend that time doing something more productive. That said, I'm very thankful for the time I spent playing around with linux (especially slackware) for teaching me valuable skills that serve me well on a daily basis, both working on the linux servers I continue to run and when working on the mac. I routinely pop about the filesystem on the mac in terminal, and have more than once used my knowledge of unix in general to help diagnose a sick mac. Knowing that you can use dd to diagnose a bad hard disk saved my friend from having to buy a whole new powerbook, just replaced the drive and reinstalled. On 4/22/07, William Park wrote: > > Just a question for those of you with Mac... > > - Why do you (supposedly Linux guys) have Mac? > - How does Mac help you in a way that Linux doesn't? > - Do you use Mac for your Linux/Unix related tasks? > - After using them both, have you given up on Mac? Or, Linux? > > In other word, convince me to buy a Mac for myself, and not just as > present. :-) > > - > William Park , Toronto, Canada > ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive > http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html > BashDiff: Super Bash shell > http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 00:48:11 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 20:48:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: pcHDTV HD-5500 In-Reply-To: <20070424221011.GB5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070424221011.GB5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <241053.76874.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Apr 21, 2007 at 10:46:34AM -0400, Colin > McGregor wrote: > > I am looking at upgrades to my MythTV box, and one > of > > the topics I am looking at is getting an HDTV > card. In > > particular I am interested in the pcHDTV HD-5500 > PCI > > tuner card (which does support Linux (in fact > Windows > > is not officially supported :-) ) . So, I have > some > > questions: > > > > - Anyone with experience using this card locally? > > - Anyone know of a local source for this card (I > have > > yet to find one)? > > - Would there be any interest in putting together > a > > bulk order with several people getting together in > > order to get a volume discount on these cards? > > I am tempted to get one, but on the other hand > putting up an OTA antenna > seems like a pain, and other than the time shift > channels on rogers > cable you wouldn't get much with the QAM tuner since > most things are > encrypted (like all the local HDTV channels for > example). As I understand it the HD-5500 offers a number of options, none of them ideal. - You can use the card as a regular analog BT-8xx series TV tuner (which is seriously ugly, it means your paying over $100 (US) for a poor performing type of tuner card the likes of which can be found locally for under $40). - Just connect it to you regular local cable co. (i.e.: Rogers), where you can get the regular analog channels and a handful of digital channels, in analog channel quality. - Connect the card to an HDTV antenna (either the likes of rabbit ear style in-house table top antenna or the big external tower antenna), modest number of channels, but all in (excellent) HD quality. - Connect the card to a Rogers cable HD (or other firm's satellite HD) boxes. Excellent quality, lots of channels, but extra $ on a monthly basis and you have to sort out how to control the external box from MythTV (can be done, but it can become very messy). So, interesting topic and one I want to keep an eye, as CURRENT word is that come Feb. 2009 (read just after the next US presidential election...) analog TV will disappear from US airwaves. How long after that Canada will follow suit, and further how long after that the cable companies will want to drop analog TV support all makes for some interesting questions... So, those of us interested in MythTV type boxes will need to pay attention to Linux supported HD tuner cards (of which the HD-5500 currently appears to be the "gold" standard). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 00:57:12 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 20:57:12 -0400 Subject: Linux and gaming - sapling program In-Reply-To: <20070424211356.GA5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990704241404n15704f96u29623f7a1ee53a53@mail.gmail.com> <20070424211356.GA5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1177462632.3862.104.camel@stan64.site> the prey demo?, is that the "prey" that was released for Xbox last year? what prey demo would one be using? one intended for a PC version? "prey" for X-box had pretty decent graphics and an innovative gravity flip around thingy, but lacked good subplots. It would be impressive to so that running on a linux box i do say! post more details that you find. -tl On Tue, 2007-04-24 at 17:13 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 05:04:09PM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > > http://www.fallingleafsystems.com/sapling/ > > > > I just signed up for these guys to check them out. I want to see > > something like this done for the Linux community. I hate the idea of > > paying a service fee and want to see a one-time translation fee. Yes, > > I would pay *more* for a game, via a service like this, just so it > > would work on Linux. > > > > It's a teeny tiny setup, with a small forum.. and nothing extra gained > > for paying (yet), so I can't recommend it unless you're into the idea > > and don't care about the $50. =) > > Hmm, seems interesting, although they seem very lacking on details of > what they are actually doing. At least with Loki we knew that they were > porting the original game code to SDL/openGL for linux. It sounds like > these guys are writing a directx to opengl library and then somehow > porting the game or maybe just doing a wrapper around the windows > binary. Hard to say with the lack of details they provide. > > For now I will stick to supporting the few comanies that released linux > binaries for their games (I am not done playing NWN yet either). > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 00:51:37 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 20:51:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IT360 show planning meeting. Message-ID: <460480.34257.qm@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> There will be a planning meeting for the upcoming IT360 trade show (April 30th, May 1st and May 2nd). The planning meeting will be April 25th at 7:00 PM in the Starbucks coffee shop inside the Indigo Book shop at Yonge & Eglinton (on Yonge, JUST north of Eglinton). Topics to be reviewed will be: - Booth furnishings - Flier/handout. - Buttons - Misc. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 03:10:54 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 23:10:54 -0400 Subject: pcHDTV HD-5500 In-Reply-To: <241053.76874.qm-PUkK9LDfIAyB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <241053.76874.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <462EC6BE.2060506@telly.org> Colin McGregor wrote: > So, those of us interested in MythTV type boxes will > need to pay attention to Linux supported HD tuner > cards (of which the HD-5500 currently appears to be > the "gold" standard). > What are the recommended Linux-supported options for those who prefer USB over PCI for this? There are USB tuners from $45 to $300, and it's hard to tell them apart (or figure out what's supported) in a list such as http://www.factorydirect.ca/catalog/category_list.php?cat=0810 or http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowSearchList&kw=tuner&cid=CC.344&mfg=all - Evan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3837 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 04:11:09 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 00:11:09 -0400 Subject: pcHDTV HD-5500 In-Reply-To: <241053.76874.qm-PUkK9LDfIAyB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <241053.76874.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1177474269.3862.115.camel@stan64.site> On Tue, 2007-04-24 at 20:48 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > --- Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > > > On Sat, Apr 21, 2007 at 10:46:34AM -0400, Colin > > McGregor wrote: > > > I am looking at upgrades to my MythTV box, and one > > - Just connect it to you regular local cable co. > (i.e.: Rogers), where you can get the regular analog > channels and a handful of digital channels, in analog > channel quality. > > - Connect the card to an HDTV antenna (either the > likes of rabbit ear style in-house table top antenna > or the big external tower antenna), modest number of > channels, but all in (excellent) HD quality. > > - Connect the card to a Rogers cable HD (or other > firm's satellite HD) boxes. Excellent quality, lots of Connect it how? if its a tuner, why connect it? can it take in dvi / composite or firewire to capture mpeg or raw video stream from a HD cable tuner/pvr device, if this thing can record HD from a rogers box, i.e. take down 1280x1080i to 1920x1080i well i am buying one tomorrow! but I don't think it can? Well, when I get a free minute I will go over spec's, but if your sure, let me know. -tl > channels, but extra $ on a monthly basis and you have > to sort out how to control the external box from > MythTV (can be done, but it can become very messy). > > So, interesting topic and one I want to keep an eye, > as CURRENT word is that come Feb. 2009 (read just > after the next US presidential election...) analog TV > will disappear from US airwaves. How long after that > Canada will follow suit, and further how long after > that the cable companies will want to drop analog TV > support all makes for some interesting questions... > > So, those of us interested in MythTV type boxes will > need to pay attention to Linux supported HD tuner > cards (of which the HD-5500 currently appears to be > the "gold" standard). > > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 13:22:58 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:22:58 -0400 Subject: IT360 show planning meeting. In-Reply-To: <460480.34257.qm-iE2/U85ktn6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <460480.34257.qm@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <462F5632.6000702@pppoe.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: >There will be a planning meeting for the upcoming >IT360 trade show (April 30th, May 1st and May 2nd). >The planning meeting will be April 25th at 7:00 PM in >the Starbucks coffee shop inside the Indigo Book shop >at Yonge & Eglinton (on Yonge, JUST north of >Eglinton). > >Topics to be reviewed will be: > >- Booth furnishings >- Flier/handout. >- Buttons >- Misc. > > > Colin For some reason, I received your email early this morning. I volunteered to help with the setup of the booth on April 30. Where and when do we meet? Do I need to collect my badge before the 30th or can I get it from you on the morning of the setup? I have received the it360 Exhibitor Confirmation. I understand the booth will be 404. Thanks. Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 13:40:19 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:40:19 -0400 Subject: Linux and gaming - sapling program In-Reply-To: <1177462632.3862.104.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990704241404n15704f96u29623f7a1ee53a53@mail.gmail.com> <20070424211356.GA5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1177462632.3862.104.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <20070425134019.GC5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 08:57:12PM -0400, tleslie wrote: > the prey demo?, is that the "prey" that was released for Xbox last year? > what prey demo would one be using? one intended for a PC version? > "prey" for X-box had pretty decent graphics and an innovative > gravity flip around thingy, but lacked good subplots. > > It would be impressive to so that running on a linux box i do say! > > post more details that you find. Well after reading their forums it seems they intend to have 'converters' which tear apart the windows binary, then replace calls to directx libraries and such with calls to their own code (using SDL as far as I understand it for some of it), and then assemble the chunks of code into a linux or mac or windows excutable (part of their plan is to support directx10 games running on win xp). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 13:50:05 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:50:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IT360 show planning meeting. In-Reply-To: <462F5632.6000702-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <462F5632.6000702@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <387597.48682.qm@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Meng Cheah wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > > >There will be a planning meeting for the upcoming > >IT360 trade show (April 30th, May 1st and May 2nd). > >The planning meeting will be April 25th at 7:00 PM > in > >the Starbucks coffee shop inside the Indigo Book > shop > >at Yonge & Eglinton (on Yonge, JUST north of > >Eglinton). > > > >Topics to be reviewed will be: > > > >- Booth furnishings > >- Flier/handout. > >- Buttons > >- Misc. > > > > > > > Colin > > For some reason, I received your email early this > morning. > I volunteered to help with the setup of the booth on > April 30. > Where and when do we meet? Do I need to collect my > badge before the 30th > or can I get it from you on the morning of the > setup? I have received > the it360 Exhibitor Confirmation. > I understand the booth will be 404. When it comes to badge pick-up, just print the conformation e-mail you received and present that at the registration desk when you arrive (if they do things like past years there will be a separate line for exhibitors, check the signs over the registration desk(s)). I have printed out the conformations if you have a problem with your printer, let me know... As for set-up times that is still being arranged, and I will let everyone know as soon as that is set. Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 13:58:35 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:58:35 -0400 Subject: pcHDTV HD-5500 In-Reply-To: <241053.76874.qm-PUkK9LDfIAyB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20070424221011.GB5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <241053.76874.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070425135835.GD5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 08:48:11PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > As I understand it the HD-5500 offers a number of > options, none of them ideal. > > - You can use the card as a regular analog BT-8xx > series TV tuner (which is seriously ugly, it means > your paying over $100 (US) for a poor performing type > of tuner card the likes of which can be found locally > for under $40). Yes it requires recording the audio through your sound card's line in. Video only through PCI. PVR cards from hauppauge of course have mpeg2 encoders so they do all the work and include sound and video in a single stream, which is much nicer. > - Just connect it to you regular local cable co. > (i.e.: Rogers), where you can get the regular analog > channels and a handful of digital channels, in analog > channel quality. Interesting of course, but not sure it is worth the money for that. > - Connect the card to an HDTV antenna (either the > likes of rabbit ear style in-house table top antenna > or the big external tower antenna), modest number of > channels, but all in (excellent) HD quality. If you have lots of buildings around you I suspect you need it at least on the roof. Of course this has long term use if you get it working as more local stations go HD. > - Connect the card to a Rogers cable HD (or other > firm's satellite HD) boxes. Excellent quality, lots of > channels, but extra $ on a monthly basis and you have > to sort out how to control the external box from > MythTV (can be done, but it can become very messy). Connect it how? If you use svideo, then you may as well use a regular tuner card because you are only getting SD out of it anyhow. I read some people use firewire to connect to a rogers HD box (on those that support it which apparently not all do), which mythtv can then receive and control. Unfortunately many channels have their broadcast flag/encryption enabled so you can't record those by firewire. > So, interesting topic and one I want to keep an eye, > as CURRENT word is that come Feb. 2009 (read just > after the next US presidential election...) analog TV > will disappear from US airwaves. How long after that > Canada will follow suit, and further how long after > that the cable companies will want to drop analog TV > support all makes for some interesting questions... > > So, those of us interested in MythTV type boxes will > need to pay attention to Linux supported HD tuner > cards (of which the HD-5500 currently appears to be > the "gold" standard). Unfortunately with the state of cable and similar services in canada, the customer has no rights what so ever, and the "service" provider doesn't care one bit about what the customer wants. If you want a PVR rogers would like you to buy their $700 box so that they control what you can do with it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 15:40:43 2007 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 18:40:43 +0300 Subject: Iptable for nat assistance Message-ID: Hi all, I have been attempting to use iptables to NAT internal IPs to an external IP without success. I have experience with iptables, but mainly on how to close or open specific ports. Nat has proved a little challenging and thats why i am seeking assistance. Lets say I have an internal IPs as 10.0.0.0/24 and need all those IP natted to an external IP 192.168.2.1. This is what I have attempted in my quest to find a solution. /sbin/iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j SNAT --to 192.168.2.1 when I check the firewall status, I notice this table insertion Chain POSTROUTING (policy ACCEPT) target prot opt source destination SNAT all -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 to:192.168.2.1 To be frank, I expected 192.168.2.1 to be the destination. The way the details are presented is confusing, IMO. Whats however puzzling is this command is rejected when I attempt to make it persistant as seen below. vi /etec/sysconfig/iptables Just before the line below, I inserted the second command REJECT all -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 reject-with icmp-host-prohibited -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j SNAT --to 192.168.2.1 This however don't work as iptable throws an error message and fails to come up. Now the question is, what is the proper way of doing a nat throw a linux box? I have enabled IP forwarding by the way. Thanks in advance William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 15:58:10 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:58:10 -0400 Subject: Books by Mark Burgess Message-ID: <200704251158.10675.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Hi, Wondering if anyone here has purchased books by Mark Burgess and what you thought ... mainly I am looking at these books because I'm considering a cfengine implementation and thought the author's books might be useful companions. "Analytical Network and System Administration: Managing Human-Computer Systems" has no reviews on amazon and at 110 USD it's more than a little pricey. "Principles of Network and System Principles of Network and System" is much more affordable and does have some reviews (somewhat mixed). -- Fraser Campbell Georgetown, Ontario, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 16:05:23 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:05:23 -0400 Subject: Iptable for nat assistance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1177517123.3862.168.camel@stan64.site> On Wed, 2007-04-25 at 18:40 +0300, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Hi all, > I have been attempting to use iptables to NAT internal IPs to an > external IP without success. I have experience with iptables, but > mainly on how to close or open specific ports. Nat has proved a little > challenging and thats why i am seeking assistance. > Lets say I have an internal IPs as 10.0.0.0/24 and need all those IP > natted to an external IP 192.168.2.1. This is what I have attempted in > my quest to find a solution. > /sbin/iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j SNAT --to 192.168.2.1 > > when I check the firewall status, I notice this table insertion > Chain POSTROUTING (policy ACCEPT) > target prot opt source destination > SNAT all -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 > to:192.168.2.1 > SNAT means source address translation, you want DNAT > To be frank, I expected 192.168.2.1 to be the destination. The way > the details are presented is confusing, IMO. Whats however puzzling is > this command is rejected when I attempt to make it persistant as seen > below. > vi /etec/sysconfig/iptables > Just before the line below, I inserted the second command > REJECT all -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 > reject-with icmp-host-prohibited > -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j SNAT --to 192.168.2.1 > > This however don't work as iptable throws an error message and fails > to come up. > Now the question is, what is the proper way of doing a nat throw a > linux box? I have enabled IP forwarding by the way. > > Thanks in advance > William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 16:06:42 2007 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:06:42 -0400 Subject: Books by Mark Burgess In-Reply-To: <200704251158.10675.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200704251158.10675.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20070425160642.GA14982@watson-wilson.ca> On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 11:58:10AM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote: >Wondering if anyone here has purchased books by Mark Burgess and what you >thought ... mainly I am looking at these books because I'm considering a >cfengine implementation and thought the author's books might be useful >companions. I began using CFengine late last year. I studied the CF reference material and few online articles but, no dead tree books. Sage is supposed to be releasing a short topic booklet about CF some time this year. -- Neil Watson | Debian Linux System Administrator | Uptime 1 day http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 16:56:19 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:56:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Iptable for nat assistance In-Reply-To: <1177517123.3862.168.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1177517123.3862.168.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <1180112110.3178.118.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Wed, 2007-04-25 at 12:05 -0400, tleslie wrote: > On Wed, 2007-04-25 at 18:40 +0300, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > > /sbin/iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j SNAT --to 192.168.2.1 > > > > when I check the firewall status, I notice this table insertion > > Chain POSTROUTING (policy ACCEPT) > > target prot opt source destination > > SNAT all -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 > > to:192.168.2.1 > > > > SNAT means source address translation, you want DNAT You also need to a forwards in place too: # Allow outgoing requests iptables -A FORWARD --out-interface eth0 --jump ACCEPT # Allow responses back in iptables -A FORWARD --in-interface eth0 --match state --state related,established --jump ACCEPT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 17:21:05 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 17:21:05 +0000 Subject: Books by Mark Burgess In-Reply-To: <200704251158.10675.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200704251158.10675.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: On 4/25/07, Fraser Campbell wrote: > "Principles of Network and System Principles of Network and System" is much > more affordable and does have some reviews (somewhat mixed). Picked this one up at work; I was hoping that it would contain a lot of cfengine recipes, unfortunately, it didn't. It is a reasonable overview of the sorts of things that sysadmins tend to need to manage on Unix systems, and contains an introduction to cfengine, but the latter is a lot less extensive than the documentation that is included with cfengine. I was a bit disappointed; I was hoping for more cfengine "integration." -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/cfengine.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 17:36:37 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:36:37 -0400 Subject: Iptable for nat assistance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070425173637.GE5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 06:40:43PM +0300, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Hi all, > I have been attempting to use iptables to NAT internal IPs to an external > IP without success. I have experience with iptables, but mainly on how to > close or open specific ports. Nat has proved a little challenging and thats > why i am seeking assistance. > Lets say I have an internal IPs as 10.0.0.0/24 and need all those IP natted > to an external IP 192.168.2.1. This is what I have attempted in my quest to > find a solution. > /sbin/iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j SNAT --to 192.168.2.1 > > when I check the firewall status, I notice this table insertion > Chain POSTROUTING (policy ACCEPT) > target prot opt source destination > SNAT all -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 to:192.168.2.1 I prefer the output of iptables with -v added to show which interface the rule applies to. You might also want to make it only apply to the 10.x network, rather than everything. So try adding -s 10.0.0.0/24 to that rule above. > To be frank, I expected 192.168.2.1 to be the destination. The way the > details are presented is confusing, IMO. Whats however puzzling is this > command is rejected when I attempt to make it persistant as seen below. > vi /etec/sysconfig/iptables > Just before the line below, I inserted the second command > REJECT all -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 reject-with > icmp-host-prohibited > -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j SNAT --to 192.168.2.1 The destination is any address that is outside through eth0. 0.0.0.0/0 means any. The source you didn't specify in your case so that too was any. The only requirement you supplied was that it be stuff going out eth0. > This however don't work as iptable throws an error message and fails to come > up. > Now the question is, what is the proper way of doing a nat throw a linux > box? I have enabled IP forwarding by the way. I personally tend to use shorewall to manage the specific iptables rules since it adds a more comprehensible and manageable abstraction on top of iptables. With shorewall you could do something as simple as this in your /etc/shorewall/masq file: #INTERFACE SUBNET ADDRESS PROTO PORT(S) IPSEC eth0 eth1 192.168.2.1 -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 17:48:17 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:48:17 -0400 Subject: Books by Mark Burgess In-Reply-To: References: <200704251158.10675.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <200704251348.17144.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Wednesday 25 April 2007 13:21, Christopher Browne wrote: > I was a bit disappointed; I was hoping for more cfengine "integration." > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/cfengine.html Thanks Chris, the above page has a nice collection of links. I think I'll stick with online sources of documentation for now and I'll see if I can find Burgess' books in Chapters next time I'm there. -- Fraser Campbell Georgetown, Ontario, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 19:11:59 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:11:59 +0000 Subject: cfengine: was- re- books by Mark Burgess Message-ID: On 4/25/07, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Wednesday 25 April 2007 13:21, Christopher Browne wrote: > > > I was a bit disappointed; I was hoping for more cfengine "integration." > > -- > > http://linuxfinances.info/info/cfengine.html > > Thanks Chris, the above page has a nice collection of links. I think I'll > stick with online sources of documentation for now and I'll see if I can find > Burgess' books in Chapters next time I'm there. Also take a look at: http://del.icio.us/cbbrowne/cfengine?setcount=100 http://sial.org/howto/cfengine/ -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 20:16:58 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:16:58 -0400 Subject: Who can I contact for information about the teaching field? In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990704241422q532d14aapb429a11a8348265b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990704251316j454fa399w500192360a174cf4@mail.gmail.com> On 4/25/07, Jason A. Spiro wrote: > 2007/4/24, Sy Ali wrote: > > > > "teaching" might not be the right word.. perhaps tutoring is better. > > I know that teachers college exists to bring people up to speed for > > that field, but I also remember hearing that it's a bit more relaxed > > for substitute teachers. > > > I assume you are thinking more about lower-level teaching: > e.g. teaching children. I should have clarified: I am hoping to > teach adults in more advanced topics if possible. I understood that you meant adults .. but I don't see how you can get into the industry (and make actual money) on such short notice without a teaching degree.. even becoming a teacher's assistant sounds hard, as they probably hand-pick from among their students. > Hmm, I would go with the largest schools, e.g. Seneca or U of T. So I > guess I should talk with those schools and ask if it is still > practical to apply for class lab assistant work there for this summer. Absolutely that's what you should do. At least get a feeler or two out there to learn what the real situation is. Even if you find it hard to get your foot in the door, ask them if they know anyone or what direction you could go towards.. you never know. > But I suspect I'd have better luck applying to smaller places: > perhaps you or others know people in the field and have suggestions > about people I could talk to? I've got no suggestions myself, as I'm not really in the business.. Hopefully we can hear a couple of other voices out there. I'd bet there have been some people who have done some private lessons.. maybe that's an industry waiting to be explored. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jonzou-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 21:30:50 2007 From: jonzou-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jon) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 17:30:50 -0400 Subject: Iptable for nat assistance In-Reply-To: <20070425173637.GE5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070425173637.GE5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3009c0a80704251430p3dc9a8f9l9ff71e2d68d1245f@mail.gmail.com> besides shorewall, firehol is another helping tool and really easy to understand On 4/25/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 06:40:43PM +0300, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > > Hi all, > > I have been attempting to use iptables to NAT internal IPs to an > external > > IP without success. I have experience with iptables, but mainly on how > to > > close or open specific ports. Nat has proved a little challenging and > thats > > why i am seeking assistance. > > Lets say I have an internal IPs as 10.0.0.0/24 and need all those IP > natted > > to an external IP 192.168.2.1. This is what I have attempted in my quest > to > > find a solution. > > /sbin/iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j SNAT --to 192.168.2.1 > > > > when I check the firewall status, I notice this table insertion > > Chain POSTROUTING (policy ACCEPT) > > target prot opt source destination > > SNAT all -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 to: > 192.168.2.1 > > I prefer the output of iptables with -v added to show which interface > the rule applies to. > > You might also want to make it only apply to the 10.x network, rather > than everything. So try adding -s 10.0.0.0/24 to that rule above. > > > To be frank, I expected 192.168.2.1 to be the destination. The way the > > details are presented is confusing, IMO. Whats however puzzling is this > > command is rejected when I attempt to make it persistant as seen below. > > vi /etec/sysconfig/iptables > > Just before the line below, I inserted the second command > > REJECT all -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 reject-with > > icmp-host-prohibited > > -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j SNAT --to 192.168.2.1 > > The destination is any address that is outside through eth0. 0.0.0.0/0 > means any. The source you didn't specify in your case so that too > was any. The only requirement you supplied was that it be stuff going > out eth0. > > > This however don't work as iptable throws an error message and fails to > come > > up. > > Now the question is, what is the proper way of doing a nat throw a linux > > box? I have enabled IP forwarding by the way. > > I personally tend to use shorewall to manage the specific iptables rules > since it adds a more comprehensible and manageable abstraction on top of > iptables. > > With shorewall you could do something as simple as this in your > /etc/shorewall/masq file: > > #INTERFACE SUBNET ADDRESS PROTO PORT(S) > IPSEC > eth0 eth1 192.168.2.1 > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 21:38:12 2007 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 17:38:12 -0400 Subject: DebianSLUG (on NSLU2) uptiem Message-ID: <32f6a8880704251438n3b930955j421d5e0bf1ad714a@mail.gmail.com> Gosh.. Debian ETCH (unstable is up for 109 days without crashing) Samba and HTTP and SSH Server. 17:28:49 up 109 days, 6:40, 2 users, load average: 1.15, 1.08, 1.02 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 22:54:30 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 18:54:30 -0400 Subject: DebianSLUG (on NSLU2) uptiem In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880704251438n3b930955j421d5e0bf1ad714a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880704251438n3b930955j421d5e0bf1ad714a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070425225430.GF5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 05:38:12PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Gosh.. Debian ETCH (unstable is up for 109 days without crashing) > Samba and HTTP and SSH Server. > > 17:28:49 up 109 days, 6:40, 2 users, load average: 1.15, 1.08, 1.02 Hmm, not bad. I think this server should be updated to etch and have a reboot soon: r01:~# uptime 18:53:05 up 334 days, 5:59, 6 users, load average: 1.06, 0.91, 0.68 I think that was when I added some more disks to the machine. This one has apparently been 125 days since I last made the mistake of doing grep -r on /proc by accident (some kernels lock up nicely when you do that): r02:~# uptime 18:51:33 up 125 days, 3:55, 16 users, load average: 0.01, 0.26, 0.53 Good uptime is simple to achive with linux today. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jonzou-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 25 23:20:15 2007 From: jonzou-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jon) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:20:15 -0400 Subject: DebianSLUG (on NSLU2) uptiem In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880704251438n3b930955j421d5e0bf1ad714a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880704251438n3b930955j421d5e0bf1ad714a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3009c0a80704251620o2fe8104bscb9234cce558e12e@mail.gmail.com> Good,mine is an asus wl-500gp,amule ctorrent samba http ssh webcam itune daapd 19:16:41 up 5 days, 13:06, load average: 0.15, 0.39, 0.56 now finish all the service I want and wish it can last that long On 4/25/07, Dave Germiquet wrote: > > Gosh.. Debian ETCH (unstable is up for 109 days without crashing) > Samba and HTTP and SSH Server. > > 17:28:49 up 109 days, 6:40, 2 users, load average: 1.15, 1.08, 1.02 > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 01:43:29 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:43:29 -0400 Subject: IT360 show planning meeting. In-Reply-To: <387597.48682.qm-2K+iNxKRQwOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <387597.48682.qm@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <463003C1.8000301@pppoe.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: >When it comes to badge pick-up, just print the >conformation e-mail you received and present that at >the registration desk when you arrive (if they do >things like past years there will be a separate line >for exhibitors, check the signs over the registration >desk(s)). I have printed out the conformations if you >have a problem with your printer, let me know... > >As for set-up times that is still being arranged, and >I will let everyone know as soon as that is set. > > Thanks. Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 02:10:41 2007 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:10:41 -0400 Subject: Iptable for nat assistance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46300A21.5070808@pppoe.ca> Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Hi all, > I have been attempting to use iptables to NAT internal IPs to an > external IP without success. I have experience with iptables, but > mainly on how to close or open specific ports. Nat has proved a little > challenging and thats why i am seeking assistance. > Lets say I have an internal IPs as 10.0.0.0/24 > and need all those IP natted to an external IP 192.168.2.1 > . This is what I have attempted in my quest to > find a solution. > /sbin/iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j SNAT --to 192.168.2.1 > > > when I check the firewall status, I notice this table insertion > Chain POSTROUTING (policy ACCEPT) > target prot opt source destination > SNAT all -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 > to:192.168.2.1 > > To be frank, I expected 192.168.2.1 to be the > destination. The way the details are presented is confusing, IMO. > Whats however puzzling is this command is rejected when I attempt to > make it persistant as seen below. > vi /etec/sysconfig/iptables > Just before the line below, I inserted the second command > REJECT all -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 > reject-with icmp-host-prohibited > -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j SNAT --to 192.168.2.1 > > This however don't work as iptable throws an error message and fails > to come up. > Now the question is, what is the proper way of doing a nat throw a > linux box? I have enabled IP forwarding by the way. > > Thanks in advance > William You may want to look at the Linux IP Masquerade Howto. http://tldp.org/HOWTO/IP-Masquerade-HOWTO/index.html It walks you through the process with examples. YMMV. Many people like Shorewall and other tools. Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 12:27:23 2007 From: cfriedt-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:27:23 +0200 Subject: Emacs & default font Message-ID: <46309AAB.4060901@visible-assets.com> Does anyone know how to change the default font in emacs ? For instance, my fonts always start up too large, and I usually hold down shift & use the left mouse button to open up a menu & select 8x13 (i sit very close to the screen, but luckily it's LCD). I've tried several times to find that in the 'options' or 'customize emacs' screen, but to no avail. Any tips? ~/Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 13:04:36 2007 From: cunnington-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Chris Cunnington) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 09:04:36 -0400 Subject: Vista Command Line Message-ID: I found the command line. Hit the Start button, and type command into the search window. Then the command prompt shows up. It understands ping and netstat, but not ls, pwd, or vim. Oh, joy. So I have two questions, now that I've encountered MS-DOS (which descended from Kildall's C/PM, and Patterson's QDOS. And no, you didn't know that. I'm the first person to know that. Ever.) 1. Can anybody recommend a book on MS-DOS? 2. Can anybody give me a reason for reading such a book? Shane/Bash, come back! SHANE! Chris Cunnington -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 13:32:30 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 09:32:30 -0400 Subject: Vista Command Line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070426133230.GG5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 09:04:36AM -0400, Chris Cunnington wrote: > I found the command line. Hit the Start button, and type command into the > search window. Then the command prompt shows up. It understands ping and > netstat, but not ls, pwd, or vim. Oh, joy. So I have two questions, now that > I've encountered MS-DOS (which descended from Kildall's C/PM, and > Patterson's QDOS. And no, you didn't know that. I'm the first person to know > that. Ever.) > > 1. Can anybody recommend a book on MS-DOS? Wouldn't be that helpful. You are NOT in fact talking to DOS, but to cmd.exe (which has a lot more features and built in commands than command.com on DOS did). It still sucks compared to a unix shell, but is also a lot better than what DOS had. > 2. Can anybody give me a reason for reading such a book? You are having trouble sleeping? You could go download the powershell for vista if you want to try their new powerful command line instead. The syntax seems a bit weird, but that is hardly surprising. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 13:50:49 2007 From: paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org (Paul Nash) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 09:50:49 -0400 Subject: Vista Command Line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >1. Can anybody recommend a book on MS-DOS? MS Press have an excellent book (part of their "pocket reference" series IIRC) on Windows XP and Server management via command-line tools. Explains how to do almost anything over a remote SSH session (if you first set up openssh on the box). Well worth the money, and unlike RDP, you can do it on an XP box while someone is logged in on the console, and you can even drive a server from your Blackberry! No doubt they will bring out a Vista title soon. Highly recommended if you have to deal with Windows boxen. pal -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 14:09:20 2007 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:09:20 -0400 Subject: Vista Command Line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <015101c7880c$7cae47d0$0105a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> Well you do have the option of installing one of two UNIX subsystems on Windows. http://www.cygwin.com/ http://www.microsoft.com/technet/interopmigration/unix/sfu/default.mspx Then you would still have Bash, sed, awk yada yada yada.... > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Chris > Cunnington > Sent: April 26, 2007 9:05 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Vista Command Line > > I found the command line. Hit the Start button, and type command into the > search window. Then the command prompt shows up. It understands ping and > netstat, but not ls, pwd, or vim. Oh, joy. So I have two questions, now > that > I've encountered MS-DOS (which descended from Kildall's C/PM, and > Patterson's QDOS. And no, you didn't know that. I'm the first person to > know > that. Ever.) > > 1. Can anybody recommend a book on MS-DOS? > > 2. Can anybody give me a reason for reading such a book? > > > Shane/Bash, come back! SHANE! > > > Chris Cunnington > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 14:14:16 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:14:16 -0400 Subject: generic 'problem with sound device' Message-ID: <1e55af990704260714v59b81488m1aa5a4519f5349b7@mail.gmail.com> I have a Plantronics USB headset that I've been using with Skype and Ekiga (for VoIP) It stopped working, giving a generic "I don't feel like working" error. These are the things I've tried: * restarting the software * restarting the computer * checking mixer settings * restarting alsa, sound, usb, etc * removing the device, rebooting and inserting it only after rebooting. I had issues with the headset being seen if I unplug it and plug it back in. * moving the headset to different usb ports * removing all other usb devices (except my mouse) * reinstalling the entire distribution, skype and ekiga * trying a new headset (same brand/model) * trying a new headset (different brand/model) I've tried various combinations of the above. Nothing seems to be working. Is there anything that I've overlooked? How can I troubleshoot this further? Can I conclude that this is some kind of hardware issue? If so - how in the heck is it so specific? Everything else sound or USB are all working just fine. Is this some kind of issue with having a second sound device? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 14:17:01 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:17:01 -0400 Subject: generic 'problem with sound device' In-Reply-To: <1e55af990704260714v59b81488m1aa5a4519f5349b7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990704260714v59b81488m1aa5a4519f5349b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990704260717r1c36e5c7w281d87b0e2f26ff5@mail.gmail.com> On 4/26/07, Sy Ali wrote: > These are the things I've tried: Oh, I've also tried switching between ALSA and OSS, to no avail. OSS seems to be faster at giving me the errors though.. ALSA has a bit more of a delay. =/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 14:18:02 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:18:02 -0400 Subject: Vista Command Line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4630B49A.40906@rogers.com> Chris Cunnington wrote: > I found the command line. Hit the Start button, and type command into the > search window. Then the command prompt shows up. It understands ping and > netstat, but not ls, pwd, or vim. Oh, joy. So I have two questions, now that > I've encountered MS-DOS (which descended from Kildall's C/PM, and > Patterson's QDOS. And no, you didn't know that. I'm the first person to know > that. Ever.) > Actually, I have a copy of Byte Magazine from (IIRC) June 1986, that contains an article by Tim Patterson about the history of DOS. I also recognized before then that many of the DOS calls were identical or very simialr to those in CP/M. > 1. Can anybody recommend a book on MS-DOS? > > 2. Can anybody give me a reason for reading such a book? > No. BTW, I have *EVERY* issue of Byte Magazine, going back to Vol. 1, #1, Sept 1975. I bought the first 3 issues, in person, from Wayne Green the original publisher of Byte, at the 1975 Radio Society of Ontario Convention in Ottawa, Oct. 1975. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 14:19:11 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:19:11 -0400 Subject: Vista Command Line In-Reply-To: <20070426133230.GG5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20070426133230.GG5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4630B4DF.6050706@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 09:04:36AM -0400, Chris Cunnington wrote: > >> I found the command line. Hit the Start button, and type command into the >> search window. Then the command prompt shows up. It understands ping and >> netstat, but not ls, pwd, or vim. Oh, joy. So I have two questions, now that >> I've encountered MS-DOS (which descended from Kildall's C/PM, and >> Patterson's QDOS. And no, you didn't know that. I'm the first person to know >> that. Ever.) >> >> 1. Can anybody recommend a book on MS-DOS? >> > > Wouldn't be that helpful. You are NOT in fact talking to DOS, but to > cmd.exe (which has a lot more features and built in commands than > command.com on DOS did). It still sucks compared to a unix shell, but > is also a lot better than what DOS had. > > >> 2. Can anybody give me a reason for reading such a book? >> > > You are having trouble sleeping? > > You could go download the powershell for vista if you want to try their > new powerful command line instead. The syntax seems a bit weird, but > that is hardly surprising. > > Or better yet, install Cygwin. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 15:27:34 2007 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:27:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Emacs & default font In-Reply-To: <46309AAB.4060901-u6hQ6WWl8Q3d1t4wvoaeXtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <46309AAB.4060901@visible-assets.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Apr 2007, Christopher Friedt wrote: > Does anyone know how to change the default font in emacs ? I have these lines in my $HOME/.Xresources and $HOME/.Xdefaults files: Emacs*font: -*-lucidatypewriter-medium-r-normal-sans-12-*-*-*-*-*-iso8859-1 Emacs*XlwMenu.font: -*-helvetica-bold-r-normal--12-*-*-*-*-*-iso8859-1 (I don't know if emacs looks at .Xresources or .Xdefaults; on my system they're both the same file.) HTH JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 15:37:48 2007 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:37:48 -0400 Subject: Do you still need IT360 volunteers? Message-ID: Hi Colin, I am interested in volunteering at IT360 this year. I will be free throughout Monday and Tuesday. I don't know any TLUG members in person, only through the list, but I have some trade show experience: I helped run the York University Computer Club booth at the Canadian Undergraduate Technology Conference a few years ago, and things went well. Are you still looking for TLUG booth volunteers? Would you be interested in having me and/or a Linux enthusiast friend or two of mine as volunteers? Also, for future reference: Do volunteers get to attend any of the conference events? I'd love to hear maddog and/or Don Tapscott speak if I could. Cheers, Jason Spiro Computer programming student, Seneca College cc: list -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I provide software development and training services to clients worldwide. Contact me for a FREE consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. +1 (416) 781-5938 / Email: info-1hdvTAswZAHQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org / MSN: jasonspiro-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 15:47:31 2007 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:47:31 -0400 Subject: Installing Perl Modules with RPM In-Reply-To: <20070326172549.GX22465-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <873478.4799.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <11952.192.168.20.1.1174922050.squirrel@192.168.20.1> <20070326172549.GX22465@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: 2007/3/26, Lennart Sorensen wrote: ... > As for making packages, I must admit I am spoiled: > > # dh-make-perl --build --cpan Time::HiRes > > (assuming you fulfill the perl module dependancies in order of course) > > And out should come a ready to install .deb Yeah, dh-make-perl is very nice. Though it would be even better if it could automatically download and build the dependencies too... I experimented with CPANPLUS::Dist::Deb[1] and its cpan2dist tool but it didn't work well for me. I don't remember exactly what the problem was though [1] http://www.annocpan.org/~KANE/CPANPLUS-Dist-Deb-0.04/lib/CPANPLUS/Dist/Deb.pm -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I provide software development and training services to clients worldwide. Contact me for a FREE consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. +1 (416) 781-5938 / Email: info-1hdvTAswZAHQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org / MSN: jasonspiro-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 16:03:56 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:03:56 -0400 Subject: Vista Command Line In-Reply-To: <4630B49A.40906-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4630B49A.40906@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070426160356.GH5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 10:18:02AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > BTW, I have *EVERY* issue of Byte Magazine, going back to Vol. 1, #1, > Sept 1975. I bought the first 3 issues, in person, from Wayne Green the > original publisher of Byte, at the 1975 Radio Society of Ontario > Convention in Ottawa, Oct. 1975. I stopped reading byte when it became apparent they intended to be just another windows magazine rather than a computer magazine. It used to be a good magazine. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 18:20:12 2007 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:20:12 -0400 Subject: Vista Command Line In-Reply-To: <4630B49A.40906-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4630B49A.40906@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20070426182012.GA28762@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 10:18:02AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > BTW, I have *EVERY* issue of Byte Magazine, going back to Vol. 1, #1, > Sept 1975. I bought the first 3 issues, in person, from Wayne Green the > original publisher of Byte, at the 1975 Radio Society of Ontario > Convention in Ottawa, Oct. 1975. I did too for a long time, but eventually got rid of them. I also had a fairly complete set of Kilobaud Microcomputing (which Wayne Green started after he left Byte), which got purged at the same time as Byte. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 17:23:45 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:23:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Do you still need IT360 volunteers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <415466.69893.qm@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Jason Spiro wrote: > Hi Colin, > > I am interested in volunteering at IT360 this year. > I will be free > throughout Monday and Tuesday. I don't know any TLUG > members in > person, only through the list, but I have some trade > show experience: > I helped run the York University Computer Club booth > at the Canadian > Undergraduate Technology Conference a few years ago, > and things went > well. > > Are you still looking for TLUG booth volunteers? > Would you be > interested in having me and/or a Linux enthusiast > friend or two of > mine as volunteers? One of the things I do is deliberately overbook on volunteers, this way people can do 1-2 hours of booth duty and then see the rest of the show (or as the case may be see the show for a while, then do 1-2 hours at the booth, your call...). So, while at present I have enough volunteers to cover the booth I would be delighted to have you as a volunteer. If you could forward the following bits of information on to me, I will get you signed up: - Name (as you want it to appear on your badge) - Mailing address, home or office (this will not appear on you badge, but (subject to conditions) will be available to other exhibitors). - preferred e-mail address (the show will send you some e-mail, some important before the show (and some not so important after the show), so you may want to use an e-mail address you can dump after the show). - Phone # - Fax number (if desired/available). > Also, for future reference: Do volunteers get to > attend any of the > conference events? I'd love to hear maddog and/or > Don Tapscott speak > if I could. The "keynote" speeches are available for free to everyone at the show and Don Tapscott will be giving the Tuesday, May 1 keynote speech (from 9:45 am to 10:45 am). Not sure what the story will be on Jon ("Maddog") Hall. Last year "Maddog" did hang out at the Linux International booth, and I found him fairly approachable for a short one-on-one talk (okay, so I was wearing a "Press" badge at the time... :-) ). > Cheers, > Jason Spiro > Computer programming student, Seneca College Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 18:03:26 2007 From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:03:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: dr. dobb's journal Message-ID: hey all, anyone out there a dr. dobb's subcriber? they changed the format a while back and i don't seem to like it as much anymore but i can't exactly put my finger on why... anyone have thoughts on the subject? Scott -- Scott C. Ripley phone: (416)738-6357 www: http://www.scottripley.com email: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Secure Your E-Mail! http://www.mysecuremail.com/javascrypt/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 18:08:52 2007 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:08:52 -0400 Subject: naked serial port / modem access Message-ID: <20070426180852.GA32677@md5.ca> Hi, I am wondering if there is most naked way to access a serial port without any sort of software, or minimal POSIX compliant software. And variation of shell script commands are acceptable. I found screen to work for accessing modem, as if it is your terminal. But if you have something simpler, that would be great. TIA, Pavel -- Create like God. Command like a King. Work like a Slave. http://perlpimp.com | http://static.md5.ca/resume.pdf -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 18:22:21 2007 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:22:21 -0400 Subject: naked serial port / modem access In-Reply-To: <20070426180852.GA32677-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <20070426180852.GA32677@md5.ca> Message-ID: <1177611741.3178.232.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Thu, 2007-04-26 at 14:08 -0400, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > Hi, > I am wondering if there is most naked way to access a serial port without any sort of software, or minimal POSIX compliant software. And variation of shell script commands are acceptable. I found screen to work for accessing modem, as if it is your terminal. But if you have something simpler, that would be great. My preference is UUCP but it isn't installed by default. Once you get it installed try this: cu -l ttyS0 -s 57600 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 18:30:52 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:30:52 -0400 Subject: Who can I contact for information about the teaching field? In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990704241422q532d14aapb429a11a8348265b@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990704251316j454fa399w500192360a174cf4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990704261130r7972d6a3me0d436f94cc2e6d9@mail.gmail.com> On 4/26/07, Jason A. Spiro wrote: > I have done private lessons in the past, but I suspect that without > some amazing marketing know-how that I don't have :-), I couldn't make > a full-time summer job out of it. Hmm.. *ponders* corporate training on the cheap: for only the cost of a full-time summer employee, have a small-group classroom environment, custom-fitted courses and private training. That'd be a good followup to a complete business conversion to Linux.. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 18:35:55 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:35:55 -0400 Subject: Who can I contact for information about the teaching field? In-Reply-To: <1e55af990704261130r7972d6a3me0d436f94cc2e6d9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990704241422q532d14aapb429a11a8348265b@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990704251316j454fa399w500192360a174cf4@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990704261130r7972d6a3me0d436f94cc2e6d9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4630F10B.6070305@utoronto.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > On 4/26/07, Jason A. Spiro wrote: >> I have done private lessons in the past, but I suspect that without >> some amazing marketing know-how that I don't have :-), I couldn't make >> a full-time summer job out of it. > > Hmm.. *ponders* > > corporate training on the cheap: for only the cost of a full-time > summer employee, have a small-group classroom environment, > custom-fitted courses and private training. > > That'd be a good followup to a complete business conversion to Linux.. =) > -- And use xen, vmware, or qemu virtual machines, so students can bork bork bork all they like. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 18:37:30 2007 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:37:30 -0400 Subject: Who can I contact for information about the teaching field? In-Reply-To: <1e55af990704261130r7972d6a3me0d436f94cc2e6d9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990704241422q532d14aapb429a11a8348265b@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990704251316j454fa399w500192360a174cf4@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990704261130r7972d6a3me0d436f94cc2e6d9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: 2007/4/26, Sy Ali : > On 4/26/07, Jason A. Spiro wrote: > > I have done private lessons in the past, but I suspect that without > > some amazing marketing know-how that I don't have :-), I couldn't make > > a full-time summer job out of it. > > Hmm.. *ponders* > > corporate training on the cheap: for only the cost of a full-time > summer employee, have a small-group classroom environment, > custom-fitted courses and private training. > > That'd be a good followup to a complete business conversion to Linux.. =) Hmm... It would. I wonder: is it common nowadays for companies to convert to Linux on the desktop? Who does those kinds of conversions? I'd love to get in touch with them and see if they might be interested in something like your idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 18:45:07 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:45:07 -0400 Subject: naked serial port / modem access In-Reply-To: <20070426180852.GA32677-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <20070426180852.GA32677@md5.ca> Message-ID: <20070426184507.GI5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 02:08:52PM -0400, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > I am wondering if there is most naked way to access a serial port without any sort of software, or minimal POSIX compliant software. And variation of shell script commands are acceptable. I found screen to work for accessing modem, as if it is your terminal. But if you have something simpler, that would be great. cat ought to work, assuming you set the port settings with stty first to something that makes sense. Not the most pleasant or flexible way to do it though. I tend to prefer using minicom for serial access. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 18:59:00 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:59:00 -0400 Subject: Finally, a Linux-based Treo... Message-ID: <4630F674.4090104@telly.org> http://news.com.com/Palm+touts+stability+of+Linux-based+Treos/2100-1041_3-6175171.html?tag=item -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 23:06:51 2007 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:06:51 -0400 Subject: who do i contact about LPI tests for IT360 Message-ID: <32f6a8880704261606m7c9309f2ja0f794b4b8dfb4d6@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, I need to know if LPI certification tests will be done for 201 and 202 at the i360 fair its saying 101 and 102 however i was told i could do LPI 201 and 202 and want to confirm? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 23:08:49 2007 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:08:49 -0400 Subject: is LPIC Certifications Respected in industry. Message-ID: <32f6a8880704261608h7e6732b0p5bdc8628d0485f67@mail.gmail.com> Hi Everyone, Can people give me there input on what they think about LPI ceritfications and if it makes people stand out when they have this certification (LPIC1 and LPIC2?) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 26 23:17:53 2007 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 26 Apr 2007 19:17:53 -0400 Subject: who do i contact about LPI tests for IT360 In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880704261606m7c9309f2ja0f794b4b8dfb4d6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880704261606m7c9309f2ja0f794b4b8dfb4d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: "Dave Germiquet" writes: > I need to know if LPI certification tests will be done for 201 and 202 at > the i360 fair its saying 101 and 102 however i was told i could do LPI 201 > and 202 and want to confirm? You should contact glenn. @lpi.org ;) Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix care, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 27 12:58:40 2007 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:58:40 -0400 Subject: file copy with progress? Message-ID: <4386c5b20704270558t463b2e36p136d7d71969b1de5@mail.gmail.com> Hi there, I'm copying a large number of files to another drive, totalling over 250GB. The command cp, and scp, will show nothing while doing that copy. I'd love to see a progress indicator for each file in the copy so I know how it's coming along. Any suggestions? Thanks! Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 27 13:04:00 2007 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:04:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: file copy with progress? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20704270558t463b2e36p136d7d71969b1de5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20704270558t463b2e36p136d7d71969b1de5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50237.207.188.88.126.1177679040.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Does cp -v do what you want? That lists each file as it is copied. > Hi there, > I'm copying a large number of files to another drive, totalling over > 250GB. The command cp, and scp, will show nothing while doing that > copy. I'd love to see a progress indicator for each file in the copy > so I know how it's coming along. Any suggestions? > > Thanks! > Aaron. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 27 13:18:36 2007 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:18:36 -0400 Subject: file copy with progress? In-Reply-To: <50237.207.188.88.126.1177679040.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20704270558t463b2e36p136d7d71969b1de5@mail.gmail.com> <50237.207.188.88.126.1177679040.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4386c5b20704270618g57774e74q63194621f24390f@mail.gmail.com> Yeah, not bad! Not as slick as other command-line download indicators, but in this case (lots of smaller files) it does the job. Cheers! Aaron. On 4/27/07, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Does cp -v do what you want? That lists each file as it is copied. > > > > Hi there, > > I'm copying a large number of files to another drive, totalling over > > 250GB. The command cp, and scp, will show nothing while doing that > > copy. I'd love to see a progress indicator for each file in the copy > > so I know how it's coming along. Any suggestions? > > > > Thanks! > > Aaron. > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 27 15:19:46 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:19:46 -0400 Subject: file copy with progress? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20704270558t463b2e36p136d7d71969b1de5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20704270558t463b2e36p136d7d71969b1de5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46321492.40908@rogers.com> Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi there, > I'm copying a large number of files to another drive, totalling over > 250GB. The command cp, and scp, will show nothing while doing that > copy. I'd love to see a progress indicator for each file in the copy > so I know how it's coming along. Any suggestions? > Have you tried the verbose -v option? -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 27 16:00:42 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:00:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft for Linux People In-Reply-To: <462E3099.8010801-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <462E3099.8010801@rogers.com> Message-ID: <842242.21588.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- John McGregor wrote: > I took CITM315 at Ryerson. It's billed as an intro > to network management > but it's really hands-on training in Windows Server > 2003. I had no > trouble passing it and I doubt that you would > either. As a bonus, the > instructor, Fahrid Shirazi, is an active Windows > sys-admin who also has > Linux+ certification (= no attitude towards us FOSS > types). I don't > think that the course (alone) would equip you to > pass a certification > exam, but certainly you have the experience to fill > in the few blanks. > http://ce-online.ryerson.ca/ce/calendar/default.asp?section=course&sub=subject&subject={A2139620-A3B1-11D4-AE93-00E029501EB1}&mode=course&ccode=CITM%20315 > > apologies for the long link > > John Thanks, I've now signed up for the above course (starts next Thursday evening). There is a prerequisite course (CITM310), which sounds ... painfully basic. I had to jump through some hoops to get into CITM315 without the CITM310 (justifying past college courses and work experience in place of the prerequisite course). Any event any GTALug folks wanting to go the same route I am taking will need to have a word with one Gloria Allen (who seems to be fairly hard to get in touch with by phone...). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 27 16:16:23 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:16:23 -0400 Subject: file copy with progress? In-Reply-To: <46321492.40908-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20704270558t463b2e36p136d7d71969b1de5@mail.gmail.com> <46321492.40908@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990704270916r5d5a8f04p12f287e6693b9acc@mail.gmail.com> cp -v verbosity is a pretty boring progress indicator. It doesn't say what's left, etc. Maybe using rsync for copies would do it better. At least it says how many files are left.. but for moving, I'm not sure what to use. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 27 17:45:53 2007 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:45:53 -0400 Subject: Microsoft for Linux People In-Reply-To: <842242.21588.qm-p6KvMhi7PWKB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <462E3099.8010801@rogers.com> <842242.21588.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880704271045t2c32ff3fu700617694a407729@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, Are you doing this for a specific Windows Certification? I'm thinking of doing studying for Windows Certifications due to the popularity in Today's world :( Though I'm a command line fan. I see that course starts at 6:30 does anyone know of any courses which start at 8:00? I also was wondering if it would be better reading books and study guides to get certificates or if i should do courses, whatya all think? On 4/27/07, Colin McGregor wrote: > > --- John McGregor wrote: > > I took CITM315 at Ryerson. It's billed as an intro > > to network management > > but it's really hands-on training in Windows Server > > 2003. I had no > > trouble passing it and I doubt that you would > > either. As a bonus, the > > instructor, Fahrid Shirazi, is an active Windows > > sys-admin who also has > > Linux+ certification (= no attitude towards us FOSS > > types). I don't > > think that the course (alone) would equip you to > > pass a certification > > exam, but certainly you have the experience to fill > > in the few blanks. > > > > http://ce-online.ryerson.ca/ce/calendar/default.asp?section=course&sub=subject&subject={A2139620-A3B1-11D4-AE93-00E029501EB1}&mode=course&ccode=CITM%20315 > > > > apologies for the long link > > > > John > > Thanks, I've now signed up for the above course > (starts next Thursday evening). There is a > prerequisite course (CITM310), which sounds ... > painfully basic. I had to jump through some hoops to > get into CITM315 without the CITM310 (justifying past > college courses and work experience in place of the > prerequisite course). Any event any GTALug folks > wanting to go the same route I am taking will need to > have a word with one Gloria Allen (who seems to be > fairly hard to get in touch with by phone...). > > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason.shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 27 18:02:25 2007 From: jason.shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:02:25 -0400 Subject: file copy with progress? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1177696945.12853.31.camel@jshein> You could use scp #scp FILE_NAME USER-savSHZN5Fh8qMp+WYRx65w at public.gmane.org:/PATH_TO_FOLDER Seems kind of pointless to encrypt traffic to the local machine just so you can see the file transfer progress though... -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Jason Shein Network Administrator ? Linux Systems Iovate Health Sciences Inc. 5100 Spectrum Way Mississauga, ON L4W 5S2 ( 905 ) - 678 - 3119 x 3136 1 - 888 - 334 - 4448, x 3136 (toll-free) ( 416 ) - 272 - 7998 Blackberry jason.shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Customer Service. Collaboration. Innovation. Efficiency. Iovate's Information Technology Team _______________________________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL AND IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE REVIEW OF THE PARTY TO WHOM IT IS ADDRESSED. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS CONFIDENTIAL AND IS DISCLOSED TO YOU UNDER THE EXPRESS UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU WILL NOT DISCLOSE IT OR ITS CONTENTS TO ANY THIRD PARTY WITHOUT THE EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF AN AUTHORIZED OFFICER OF IOVATE HEALTH SCIENCES SERVICES INC. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS TRANSMISSION IN ERROR, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY RETURN IT TO THE SENDER. _______________________________________________________________________________ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 27 18:06:18 2007 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:06:18 -0400 Subject: file copy with progress? In-Reply-To: <1177696945.12853.31.camel@jshein> References: <1177696945.12853.31.camel@jshein> Message-ID: <4386c5b20704271106k6ea0340am1e50d7bc7859a3d8@mail.gmail.com> Indeed, there doesn't seem to be a slick file progress indicator a la SCP's over-the-network feature. Odd that you have to specify a network-style argument to get it. I mean come on, it's 2007! Let's update cp so it has this functionality. Any takers on this list? :-) Cheers, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 27 18:53:58 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:53:58 -0400 Subject: file copy with progress? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20704271106k6ea0340am1e50d7bc7859a3d8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1177696945.12853.31.camel@jshein> <4386c5b20704271106k6ea0340am1e50d7bc7859a3d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <463246C6.30706@rogers.com> Aaron Vegh wrote: > Indeed, there doesn't seem to be a slick file progress indicator a la > SCP's over-the-network feature. Odd that you have to specify a > network-style argument to get it. I mean come on, it's 2007! Let's > update cp so it has this functionality. Any takers on this list? :-) > Maybe it could be just like the one in Windows. That one seems to sit at close to zero, then suddenly zooms over to done. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason.shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 27 19:01:08 2007 From: jason.shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:01:08 -0400 Subject: file copy with progress? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1177700468.5723.1.camel@jshein> >Maybe it could be just like the one in Windows. That one seems to >sit at close to zero, then suddenly zooms over to done. ;-) Or it could be even more like Windows, and run for hours until it reaches 99% and fail with some obscure error. -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Jason Shein Network Administrator ? Linux Systems Iovate Health Sciences Inc. 5100 Spectrum Way Mississauga, ON L4W 5S2 ( 905 ) - 678 - 3119 x 3136 1 - 888 - 334 - 4448, x 3136 (toll-free) ( 416 ) - 272 - 7998 Blackberry jason.shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Customer Service. Collaboration. Innovation. Efficiency. Iovate's Information Technology Team _______________________________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL AND IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE REVIEW OF THE PARTY TO WHOM IT IS ADDRESSED. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS CONFIDENTIAL AND IS DISCLOSED TO YOU UNDER THE EXPRESS UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU WILL NOT DISCLOSE IT OR ITS CONTENTS TO ANY THIRD PARTY WITHOUT THE EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF AN AUTHORIZED OFFICER OF IOVATE HEALTH SCIENCES SERVICES INC. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS TRANSMISSION IN ERROR, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY RETURN IT TO THE SENDER. _______________________________________________________________________________ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 27 20:51:55 2007 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:51:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: file copy with progress? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20704271106k6ea0340am1e50d7bc7859a3d8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20704271106k6ea0340am1e50d7bc7859a3d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Apr 2007, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Indeed, there doesn't seem to be a slick file progress indicator a la > SCP's over-the-network feature. Odd that you have to specify a > network-style argument to get it. I mean come on, it's 2007! Let's > update cp so it has this functionality. Any takers on this list? :-) You can use scp to copy stuff from A to B on the same host (just like cp). Just don't include a hostname directive on either the source or destination. Terry -- Terry Tanski, BSc RHCE Email: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 27 21:10:40 2007 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:10:40 -0400 Subject: file copy with progress? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20704270558t463b2e36p136d7d71969b1de5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20704270558t463b2e36p136d7d71969b1de5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <463266D0.5080204@pobox.com> I often use rsync locally when I want to copy something and track its progress; for example, to copy a directory of files to another directory, I would use something like this: rsync -arv --progress /somedir/dirtocopy /otherdir where -a means "archive" (preserve attributes, mod times, etc. as far as possible) -r means "recursive" (for recursive directory copies) -v means "verbose" --progress shows progress on individual files during transfer You may wish to read the rsync man page first before using it; in particular, there's one special form involving a trailing slash on the source directory that's a little funky (this is explained in the "Usage" section). Amanda Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi there, > I'm copying a large number of files to another drive, totalling over > 250GB. The command cp, and scp, will show nothing while doing that > copy. I'd love to see a progress indicator for each file in the copy > so I know how it's coming along. Any suggestions? > > Thanks! > Aaron. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 27 21:27:18 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:27:18 -0400 Subject: is LPIC Certifications Respected in industry. In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880704261608h7e6732b0p5bdc8628d0485f67-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880704261608h7e6732b0p5bdc8628d0485f67@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070427212718.GJ5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 07:08:49PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Can people give me there input on what they think about LPI ceritfications > and if it makes people stand out when > they have this certification (LPIC1 and LPIC2?) Well me personally don't have much respect of any kind for any of the certifications. I prefer real experience. Of course I haven't had to hire people, so it doesn't matter that much what I personally think of them. :) I think of them mainly as an interesting puzzle to solve, similar to crosswords and such. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 27 21:29:52 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:29:52 -0400 Subject: file copy with progress? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20704270558t463b2e36p136d7d71969b1de5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20704270558t463b2e36p136d7d71969b1de5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070427212952.GK5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Apr 27, 2007 at 08:58:40AM -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: > I'm copying a large number of files to another drive, totalling over > 250GB. The command cp, and scp, will show nothing while doing that > copy. I'd love to see a progress indicator for each file in the copy > so I know how it's coming along. Any suggestions? Do you know how long it takes to figure out what to copy ahead of time to provide progress bars? Windows can spend more time gathering statistics before starting to copy than it does on the actual copy in cases involing lots of small files. rsync does give nice info with something like: rsync -av --progress sourcedir destdir -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 27 21:39:45 2007 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:39:45 -0400 Subject: is LPIC Certifications Respected in industry. In-Reply-To: <20070427212718.GJ5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880704261608h7e6732b0p5bdc8628d0485f67@mail.gmail.com> <20070427212718.GJ5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20070427213945.GA21477@md5.ca> Lennart Sorensen(lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org)@Fri, Apr 27, 2007 at 05:27:18PM -0400: > On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 07:08:49PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > > Can people give me there input on what they think about LPI ceritfications > > and if it makes people stand out when > > they have this certification (LPIC1 and LPIC2?) > > Well me personally don't have much respect of any kind for any of the > certifications. I prefer real experience. Of course I haven't had to > hire people, so it doesn't matter that much what I personally think of > them. :) I think of them mainly as an interesting puzzle to solve, > similar to crosswords and such. I think idea of certification is to catch the eye of the resumre reviewer, not to instill credibility of the individual in their possible boss. For that you have completed projects. Often people filtering out resumes are farthest from technical field, as these things help. A+, CCNS, MCSE whatever. p. -- Create like God. Command like a King. Work like a Slave. http://arslogic.com | http://arslogic.com/resume.pdf direct: 416-564-5255 | fax: 416-596-0128 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 27 23:34:00 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:34:00 -0400 Subject: rpm madness.. Message-ID: [root at localhost ~]# rpm -iv /media/CentOS_5.0_Final/CentOS/elfutils- 0.125-3.el5.i386.rpm Preparing packages for installation... package elfutils-0.125-3.el5 is already installed [root at localhost ~]# rpm -iv /media/CentOS_5.0_Final/CentOS/elfutils- devel-0.125-3.el5.i386.rpm error: Failed dependencies: elfutils-devel-static = 0.125-3.el5 is needed by elfutils-devel-0.125-3.el5.i386 elfutils-libelf-devel = 0.125-3.el5 is needed by elfutils-devel-0.125-3.el5.i386 [root at localhost ~]# rpm -iv /media/CentOS_5.0_Final/CentOS/elfutils- devel-static-0.125-3.el5.i386.rpm error: Failed dependencies: elfutils-devel = 0.125-3.el5 is needed by elfutils-devel-static-0.125-3.el5.i386 elfutils-libelf-devel-static = 0.125-3.el5 is needed by elfutils-devel-static-0.125-3.el5.i386 [root at localhost ~]# rpm -iv /media/CentOS_5.0_Final/CentOS/elfutils- libelf-0.125-3.el5.i386.rpm Preparing packages for installation... package elfutils-libelf-0.125-3.el5 is already installed [root at localhost ~]# -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 27 23:56:38 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:56:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft for Linux People In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880704271045t2c32ff3fu700617694a407729-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880704271045t2c32ff3fu700617694a407729@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <925814.36288.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi All, > > Are you doing this for a specific Windows > Certification? No, fill in some information gaps, period. > I'm thinking of doing studying for > Windows Certifications due to > the popularity in Today's world :( Though I'm a > command line fan. > > I see that course starts at 6:30 does anyone > know of any courses > which start at 8:00? Not off hand. > I also was wondering if it would be better > reading books and study > guides to get certificates or if i should do > courses, whatya all think? Depends on how you learn best. Both books and courses have their advantages and problems. If it is something I love and am interested in, books are great. If it is something I am not so keen on, then I will go with an instructor (cough, cough, MS Windows, cough, cough). > On 4/27/07, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > > > --- John McGregor wrote: > > > I took CITM315 at Ryerson. It's billed as an > intro > > > to network management > > > but it's really hands-on training in Windows > Server > > > 2003. I had no > > > trouble passing it and I doubt that you would > > > either. As a bonus, the > > > instructor, Fahrid Shirazi, is an active > Windows > > > sys-admin who also has > > > Linux+ certification (= no attitude towards us > FOSS > > > types). I don't > > > think that the course (alone) would equip you to > > > pass a certification > > > exam, but certainly you have the experience to > fill > > > in the few blanks. > > > > > > > > http://ce-online.ryerson.ca/ce/calendar/default.asp?section=course&sub=subject&subject={A2139620-A3B1-11D4-AE93-00E029501EB1}&mode=course&ccode=CITM%20315 > > > > > > apologies for the long link > > > > > > John > > > > Thanks, I've now signed up for the above course > > (starts next Thursday evening). There is a > > prerequisite course (CITM310), which sounds ... > > painfully basic. I had to jump through some hoops > to > > get into CITM315 without the CITM310 (justifying > past > > college courses and work experience in place of > the > > prerequisite course). Any event any GTALug folks > > wanting to go the same route I am taking will need > to > > have a word with one Gloria Allen (who seems to be > > fairly hard to get in touch with by phone...). > > > > > > Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 28 04:18:15 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:18:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: rpm madness.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Zbigniew Koziol Your mailer (gmail) sent your message in two forms: in plain text with confusing line breaks and in HTML. It would be good to only use plain text and to get the line breaks right. In my quoting, I've tried to get fix the line breaks. | [root at localhost ~]# rpm -iv /media/CentOS_5.0_Final/CentOS/elfutils-0.125-3.el5.i386.rpm | Preparing packages for installation... | package elfutils-0.125-3.el5 is already installed That need not be installed, it already is | [root at localhost ~]# rpm -iv /media/CentOS_5.0_Final/CentOS/elfutils-devel-0.125-3.el5.i386.rpm | error: Failed dependencies: | elfutils-devel-static = 0.125-3.el5 is needed by elfutils-devel-0.125-3.el5.i386 | elfutils-libelf-devel = 0.125-3.el5 is needed by elfutils-devel-0.125-3.el5.i386 To install elfutils-devel-0.125-3.el5.i386.rpm you also need those two other packages | [root at localhost ~]# rpm -iv /media/CentOS_5.0_Final/CentOS/elfutils-devel-static-0.125-3.el5.i386.rpm | error: Failed dependencies: | elfutils-devel = 0.125-3.el5 is needed by elfutils-devel-static-0.125-3.el5.i386 | elfutils-libelf-devel-static = 0.125-3.el5 is needed by elfutils-devel-static-0.125-3.el5.i386 Two more packages you need. Except that one of them is a repeat. | [root at localhost ~]# rpm -iv /media/CentOS_5.0_Final/CentOS/elfutils-libelf-0.125-3.el5.i386.rpm | Preparing packages for installation... | package elfutils-libelf-0.125-3.el5 is already installed Something you already had. Why did you try adding this one? ================ If packages are mutually dependant, you should install them with the same command. That way the system is never inconsistent (unless a command does not complete and RPM tries to avoid that). 1) consider using yum: it installs required dependencies # yum install elfutils-devel 2) or try: # cd /media/CentOS_5.0_Final/CentOS # rpm -iv \ > elfutils-devel-0.125-3.el5.i386.rpm \ > elfutils-devel-static-0.125-3.el5.i386.rpm \ > elfutils-libelf-devel-0.125-3.el5.i386.rpm \ > elfutils-libelf-devel-static-0.125-3.el5.i386.rpm (I guessed some of these filenames.) You may find that there are more dependencies, but I'm sure that you get the idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 28 09:45:54 2007 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 05:45:54 -0400 Subject: file copy with progress? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20704270558t463b2e36p136d7d71969b1de5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20704270558t463b2e36p136d7d71969b1de5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <463317D2.9050802@gmail.com> I am not sure how much it would slow the 'cp' process if the console displayed each file as it copied. For 250GB, it depends on the filesizes. I always started the 'cp process, opened another terminal, 'df -sh' periodically on whatever directory was being copied. Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi there, > I'm copying a large number of files to another drive, totalling over > 250GB. The command cp, and scp, will show nothing while doing that > copy. I'd love to see a progress indicator for each file in the copy > so I know how it's coming along. Any suggestions? > > Thanks! > Aaron. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 28 11:56:33 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 07:56:33 -0400 Subject: restoring partitions after a cfdisk bug deleted them Message-ID: <1e55af990704280456u6698a51eo869f89c3cc07fbab@mail.gmail.com> I'm doing some googling now, but maybe someone in the know would have a simple-ish answer.. I used cfdisk to delete some partitions and make them anew (i.e. to merge them) and it instead deleted them *and* deleted all partitions after those, combining them all into "free space". I only noticed this after mkfs -j those partitions which I recreated. I have since rebooted the system but have made no other change. So I have a few partitions, and then a big block of free space. And I need to recover a couple of partitions at the end. I know how large they are, if that helps.. I have a twin backup HDD with the same partitioning scheme as the primary hdd had. It's partitioning is probably a clone of what the first drive had, right down to the byte. This is what the primary hdd's partitioning has become: sda1 Primary Linux swap / Solaris 8.23 sda2 Primary Linux swap / Solaris 1003.49 sda3 Boot Primary Linux ext3 16.46 Pri/Log Free Space 319042.17 This is what the backup hdd's partitioning is like: sdb1 Primary Linux swap / Solaris 8.23 sdb2 Primary Linux swap / Solaris 1003.49 sdb3 Boot Primary Linux ext3 5000.98 sdb5 Logical Linux ext3 16.46 sdb6 Logical Linux ext3 1003.49 sdb7 Logical Linux ext3 1998.75 sdb8 Logical Linux ext3 1003.49 sdb9 Logical Linux ext3 3002.23 sdb10 Logical Linux ext3 1003.49 sdb11 Logical Linux ext3 1003.49 sdb12 Logical Linux ext3 235004.48 sdb13 Logical Linux ext3 70021.81 Given this problem, what's the best way to restore the data of the last two partitions on "sda12" and "sda13" (wherever they went) ? Seeing as I do have a backup, there is that easy solution. But my last backup was too long ago for me to want to roll back so easily. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 28 12:22:42 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 08:22:42 -0400 Subject: restoring partitions after a cfdisk bug deleted them In-Reply-To: <1e55af990704280456u6698a51eo869f89c3cc07fbab-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990704280456u6698a51eo869f89c3cc07fbab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990704280522x3df54325h26f22f1dca59909e@mail.gmail.com> On 4/28/07, Sy Ali wrote: > I'm doing some googling now, but maybe someone in the know would have > a simple-ish answer.. TestDisk, run as root, seems to be giving me what I want to see. So I'm trying it out. http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 28 12:44:17 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 08:44:17 -0400 Subject: restoring partitions after a cfdisk bug deleted them In-Reply-To: <1e55af990704280522x3df54325h26f22f1dca59909e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990704280456u6698a51eo869f89c3cc07fbab@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990704280522x3df54325h26f22f1dca59909e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990704280544xe0c1365r32c96fedcd8fa6b5@mail.gmail.com> On 4/28/07, Sy Ali wrote: > On 4/28/07, Sy Ali wrote: > > I'm doing some googling now, but maybe someone in the know would have > > a simple-ish answer.. > > TestDisk, run as root, seems to be giving me what I want to see. So > I'm trying it out. > > http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk It worked just fine. Now I'm refreshing my backup before trying again. Pardon the mailing list noise. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 28 14:01:34 2007 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:01:34 -0400 Subject: Xen Message-ID: <20070428100134.e87dc60e.hgibson@eol.ca> I have recently upgraded my old desktop from FC3 to FC6. I have just installed the non-Xen kernel and rebooted the machine, and now my serial ports and floppy drives are working again. It appears that my clunky old computer is _not_ having hardware problems. I spent the better part of a week trying to figure out why my computer could not access its modem. This was not a pleasant experience. I now have a hardware modem plugged into a USB port. I am about to re-configure GRUB to lauch FC6 without Xen. What does Xen do for a desktop user who is not doing kernel hacking or other software development? -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 28 14:04:12 2007 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:04:12 -0400 Subject: restoring partitions after a cfdisk bug deleted them In-Reply-To: <1e55af990704280544xe0c1365r32c96fedcd8fa6b5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990704280456u6698a51eo869f89c3cc07fbab@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990704280522x3df54325h26f22f1dca59909e@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990704280544xe0c1365r32c96fedcd8fa6b5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4633545C.8000501@utoronto.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > On 4/28/07, Sy Ali wrote: >> On 4/28/07, Sy Ali wrote: >> > I'm doing some googling now, but maybe someone in the know would have >> > a simple-ish answer.. >> >> TestDisk, run as root, seems to be giving me what I want to see. So >> I'm trying it out. >> >> http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk > > It worked just fine. Now I'm refreshing my backup before trying again. > > Pardon the mailing list noise. =) I've used TestDisk in the past such that I hit the paypal donate button. One of the few projects that is just so useful that I felt compelled to give a little monetary thanks. It wasn't even for data that was important, just the fact that such a well designed utility that works exists and is GPL. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 28 14:10:09 2007 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:10:09 -0400 Subject: file copy with progress? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20704270558t463b2e36p136d7d71969b1de5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20704270558t463b2e36p136d7d71969b1de5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280704280710wd3f2277gba4cb97a7c3e260d@mail.gmail.com> On 4/27/07, Aaron Vegh wrote: > I'm copying a large number of files to another drive, totalling over > 250GB. The command cp, and scp, will show nothing while doing that > copy. I'd love to see a progress indicator for each file in the copy > so I know how it's coming along. Any suggestions? http://freshmeat.net/projects/ecp/ I installed this on my machine a few months back with the intention of using it a lot (it includes the progress indicators you want, and that I wanted) but I only want it on big and/or slow copies (ie. off NFS) and I don't do those often enough to even remember I have it installed. Or to learn the command line switches. Anyway, I think it's what you're looking for. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 28 14:40:14 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:40:14 -0400 Subject: Xen In-Reply-To: <20070428100134.e87dc60e.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070428100134.e87dc60e.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <200704281040.14930.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Saturday 28 April 2007 10:01:34 Howard Gibson wrote: > What does Xen do for a desktop user who is not doing kernel hacking or > other software development? Xen is for running virtual machines. If you want to run different versions of Linux simultenously it can be useful. If you want to run windows it can be useful (assuming you have hardware virtualization support). Only you can answer why you might want a virtual machine, if you don't want one then definitely don't run Xen. Xen does mess up some hardware support (last I checked my b44 network driver still did not work under it). If you decide you do want virtual machines but want something less intrusive try KVM (if you have have hardware virtualization support) or QEMU. -- Fraser Campbell Georgetown, Ontario, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 28 14:47:12 2007 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Xen In-Reply-To: <20070428100134.e87dc60e.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20070428100134.e87dc60e.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <762693.55783.qm@web88214.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Howard Gibson wrote: > I have recently upgraded my old desktop from FC3 > to FC6. I have just installed the non-Xen kernel > and rebooted the machine, and now my serial ports > and floppy drives are working again. It appears > that my clunky old computer is _not_ having hardware > problems. > > I spent the better part of a week trying to > figure out why my computer could not access its > modem. This was not a pleasant experience. I now > have a hardware modem plugged into a USB port. I am > about to re-configure GRUB to lauch FC6 without Xen. > > What does Xen do for a desktop user who is not > doing kernel hacking or other software development? If you want (or need) to work with multiple OSs, then Xen is your ticket. Keep in mind though that under Xen you either need the other OS(s) to be aware that they are running under virtualization or you need the CPU hardware supported virtualization (the later has not been available until fairly recently...). So, if you have a recent CPU, you can run whatever OSs strike your fancy, say, old versions of Linux, FreeBSD or new MS Windows versions on your machine... Is this worth the effort for a desktop user? Depends ... If your in a position where say you need to ocasionaly run just one piece of old software that only available for OS-123, but you need to run that software badly, virtualization on the desktop may make a lot of sense... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 28 17:07:43 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:07:43 -0400 Subject: Xubuntu on 1999 Dell PIII 450mhz and 128 megs ram; not enough Message-ID: <20070428170743.GA18340@waltdnes.org> Although I may be considered a Gentoo fanboi by some, I did try Xubuntu last week. It wasn't on my main machine, but on my old 1999 Dell. The install was excruciatingly slow. Once installed, Xubuntu was only painfully slow. Optimized Gentoo runs OK on the Dell, and I keep it around as my emergency backup. With the exception of "internet TV" and editing 2560x1920 digital photos in Gimp, the Dell keeps pace with my AMD3000+ with 2 gigs of main ram, and 256 meg video (twice as much as the Dell's main ram). Xubuntu is supposed to be the least-resource hungry Ubuntu variant, because it uses XFCE desktop, rather than GNOME (Ubuntu) or KDE (Kubuntu). I use Blackbox WM under Gentoo. Desktop Environment? We don't need no steenkin desktop environment. Ubuntu is also probably compiled as i386. I set Gentoo to build with... CFLAGS="-O2 -march=pentium3 -fomit-frame-pointer -mmmx -msse -mfpmath=sse" plus I throw in "mmx" and "sse" use flags. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 28 18:42:00 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 14:42:00 -0400 Subject: Xubuntu on 1999 Dell PIII 450mhz and 128 megs ram; not enough In-Reply-To: <20070428170743.GA18340-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070428170743.GA18340@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990704281142p687c7c3fh35e3a3eeeb2f22ae@mail.gmail.com> On 4/28/07, Walter Dnes wrote: > Although I may be considered a Gentoo fanboi by some, I did try > Xubuntu last week. It wasn't on my main machine, but on my old 1999 > Dell. The install was excruciatingly slow. Once installed, Xubuntu was > only painfully slow. My previous desktop was Slackware running X with blackbox. It *flew*. That's a p2 266 with 96 megs of ram, and to be honest.. the last 32 was thrown in with zero benefit. Surfing while ripping while encoding three mp3s while listening to music which doesn't skip. No problem. Well.. firefox is dog slow. But that's "normal". My current desktop, PCLinuxOS has shown some interest in the entire light desktop thing, including a "business" distribution or SAM linux, both using xfce. Those aside, there will be the official "MiniME" which will be stripped down and will always fit on a CD and "TinyME" which apparently won't even have X. Handy, seeing as the main distriribution will go to a LiveDVD next. I'm going to be enjoying goofing around with my old computers as test boxes again.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 28 18:43:13 2007 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 14:43:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Xubuntu on 1999 Dell PIII 450mhz and 128 megs ram; not enough In-Reply-To: <20070428170743.GA18340-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070428170743.GA18340@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: | From: Walter Dnes | Although I may be considered a Gentoo fanboi by some, I did try | Xubuntu last week. It wasn't on my main machine, but on my old 1999 | Dell. The install was excruciatingly slow. Once installed, Xubuntu was | only painfully slow. Sad, but I'm not too surprised. (I'm typing this into my MUA running on a k6-200, 64M, RHL7.0 box.) | Optimized Gentoo runs OK on the Dell, and I keep it around as my | emergency backup. With the exception of "internet TV" and editing | 2560x1920 digital photos in Gimp, the Dell keeps pace with my AMD3000+ | with 2 gigs of main ram, and 256 meg video (twice as much as the Dell's | main ram). In what sense "keeps pace"? Is it that both are limited by your typing speed? | Ubuntu is also probably compiled as | i386. I set Gentoo to build with... | CFLAGS="-O2 -march=pentium3 -fomit-frame-pointer -mmmx -msse -mfpmath=sse" | plus I throw in "mmx" and "sse" use flags. How much difference do you expect that to make? I would expect a CPU usage difference that would be negligible. Since memory space is the problem, have a look at what "size" says about comparable binaries (eg. tr and bash, glibc). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 28 20:34:19 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 16:34:19 -0400 Subject: Windows Vista restricts GNU GCC apps to 32 MB Message-ID: <1e55af990704281334l4ede0f4dj568544802372a102@mail.gmail.com> http://www.trnicely.net/misc/vista.html .. reading it now. It's already interesting. I guess all gcc-compiled applications will have to have a special fugly-windows-workaround version too. How is that even possible when a lot of programs are "working fine and therefore not actively maintained" ? (cfdisk comes to mind) Or maybe someone can write a wrapper to help people recompile gcc software targetted to vista to help with this.. uh.. "feature". -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 28 21:36:10 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 17:36:10 -0400 Subject: Xubuntu on 1999 Dell PIII 450mhz and 128 megs ram; not enough In-Reply-To: <1e55af990704281142p687c7c3fh35e3a3eeeb2f22ae-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20070428170743.GA18340@waltdnes.org> <1e55af990704281142p687c7c3fh35e3a3eeeb2f22ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070428213610.GA18765@waltdnes.org> On Sat, Apr 28, 2007 at 02:42:00PM -0400, Sy Ali wrote > My previous desktop was Slackware running X with blackbox. It *flew*. > > That's a p2 266 with 96 megs of ram, and to be honest.. the last 32 > was thrown in with zero benefit. > > Surfing while ripping while encoding three mp3s while listening to > music which doesn't skip. No problem. Sounds almost like my Dell running Gentoo+blackbox. > Well.. firefox is dog slow. But that's "normal". "Slow" may be due to webpages with HTML that refuses to display the page until some overloaded adserver serves out a banner-ad to you. If you wanted slow, you should've tried beta-testing *MOZILLA* (not Firefox) 0.90 through 0.95 on a P3. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 28 22:52:10 2007 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 18:52:10 -0400 Subject: Windows Vista restricts GNU GCC apps to 32 MB In-Reply-To: <1e55af990704281334l4ede0f4dj568544802372a102-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990704281334l4ede0f4dj568544802372a102@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 4/28/07, Sy Ali wrote: > http://www.trnicely.net/misc/vista.html > > .. reading it now. It's already interesting. > > I guess all gcc-compiled applications will have to have a special > fugly-windows-workaround version too. How is that even possible when > a lot of programs are "working fine and therefore not actively > maintained" ? (cfdisk comes to mind) > > Or maybe someone can write a wrapper to help people recompile gcc > software targetted to vista to help with this.. uh.. "feature". This isn't as general a restriction as you seem to be reading it to be. It affects applications only if they effectively ignore that Win32 exists. In effect, it's a limitation when running MS-DOS-style applications on Windows (and that fits; MS-DOS was unaware of the existence of Win32 as it predates it). It's not a restriction for apps you might deploy using Cygwin; Cygwin provides a POSIX-y layer on top of Win32, in which case the restriction may be easily inferred NOT to apply. It's not a restriction for apps that might combine Win32 with "other stuff" (as would be the case for things like ports of Gimp or Gnome apps or KDE apps); by virtue of having memory management going thru Win32, they don't run into the "feature" you're pointing out. It may well be a relevant restriction to things like bootloaders, but anyone that builds a bootloader requiring 32MB of memory deserves any trouble they get into :-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "... memory leaks are quite acceptable in many applications ..." (Bjarne Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, page 220) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 28 23:35:42 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:35:42 -0400 Subject: Xubuntu on 1999 Dell PIII 450mhz and 128 megs ram; not enough In-Reply-To: <20070428213610.GA18765-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070428170743.GA18340@waltdnes.org> <1e55af990704281142p687c7c3fh35e3a3eeeb2f22ae@mail.gmail.com> <20070428213610.GA18765@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990704281635i5dbd1571l9b0194f2c48b766@mail.gmail.com> On 4/28/07, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sat, Apr 28, 2007 at 02:42:00PM -0400, Sy Ali wrote > > Well.. firefox is dog slow. But that's "normal". > > "Slow" may be due to webpages with HTML that refuses to display the > page until some overloaded adserver serves out a banner-ad to you. > If you wanted slow, you should've tried beta-testing *MOZILLA* (not > Firefox) 0.90 through 0.95 on a P3. I think firefox was around 0.30 at the time. I never did take a close look at mozilla.. the idea of all those features being folded together didn't exactly rub me the right way. I mean.. I was using blackbox, the king of the straight and narrow. They even kicked bbkeys out of their bed for eating crackers.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 28 23:41:28 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:41:28 -0400 Subject: Windows Vista restricts GNU GCC apps to 32 MB In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990704281334l4ede0f4dj568544802372a102@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990704281641o150cb468t4307d7d92de6be79@mail.gmail.com> On 4/28/07, Christopher Browne wrote: > In effect, it's a limitation when running MS-DOS-style applications on > Windows (and that fits; MS-DOS was unaware of the existence of Win32 > as it predates it). I read it differently.. as it seems to read that it is a problem for anyone who writes with one codebase which is to be deployed broadly without any special vista-specific tweaks. Yes, old software may not generally require more than 32MB of memory.. but some of it sure does. > It's not a restriction for apps you might deploy using Cygwin; Cygwin > provides a POSIX-y layer on top of Win32, in which case the > restriction may be easily inferred NOT to apply. The author of that article specifically cites cygwin as a non-solution because he requires a set of programming features which aren't provided within that environment. The type of stuff the author is working on is pretty neat. If you're into that math stuff. =) > It may well be a relevant restriction to things like bootloaders, but > anyone that builds a bootloader requiring 32MB of memory deserves any > trouble they get into :-). hah. I'm sure grub has that on the drawing board somewhere. ;) The article made me laugh to learn of such nonsense as not having a fullscreen 'dos' window anymore. Sigh.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 28 23:46:27 2007 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:46:27 -0400 Subject: I want GNU! Message-ID: <1e55af990704281646v152f0685x4e7b72748efc0971@mail.gmail.com> http://gnuart.onshore.com/uncle_gnu_i_want.html Hehe -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 29 00:45:12 2007 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 20:45:12 -0400 Subject: Xubuntu on 1999 Dell PIII 450mhz and 128 megs ram; not enough In-Reply-To: <20070428170743.GA18340-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20070428170743.GA18340@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <200704282045.12293.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Saturday 28 April 2007 13:07:43 Walter Dnes wrote: > I use Blackbox WM under Gentoo. Desktop Environment? We don't need > no steenkin desktop environment. Ubuntu is also probably compiled as > i386. I set Gentoo to build with... > CFLAGS="-O2 -march=pentium3 -fomit-frame-pointer -mmmx -msse -mfpmath=sse" > plus I throw in "mmx" and "sse" use flags. In Ubuntu you could also "apt-get install blackbox". Wow that is fast! I think I might have to play with blackbox, need to figure out how to put a few more things on the menu though (ubuntu package only gives xterm, restart and exit options). -- Fraser Campbell Georgetown, Ontario, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 29 03:22:09 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 23:22:09 -0400 Subject: Xubuntu on 1999 Dell PIII 450mhz and 128 megs ram; not enough In-Reply-To: References: <20070428170743.GA18340@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20070429032209.GB18765@waltdnes.org> On Sat, Apr 28, 2007 at 02:43:13PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote > Sad, but I'm not too surprised. (I'm typing this into my MUA running > on a k6-200, 64M, RHL7.0 box.) RHL7.3 was the end-user linux of its time. I was sad when Redhat dropped support for it. RH8 and RH9 were bloated. I tried them out and went back to 7.3. After RH dropped support, I switched to Debian. You may have heard the old joke about Debian having 3 versions... "Rusty", "Stale", and "Broken". I actually preferred it that way. I got tired of constant upgrades with Redhat firing out version-du-jour (7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 6, and 9). It did eventually bite me at one point when RealPlayer and Phoenix (or was it Firebird by then?) came out with security updates that would not install because Debian's versions of gtk and some other lib were too old. I switched to Crux and then to Gentoo. > | the Dell keeps pace with my AMD3000+ > > In what sense "keeps pace"? Is it that both are limited by your > typing speed? In the sense that I don't notice any speed difference. Web pages, popmail, ssmtp, usenet, and linux mirrors are limited by their servers. In the case of webpages, you may also run into HTML that deliberately won't display the full page until after an overloaded ad-server has spit out its banner ad. Streaming audio is no problem. It's the graphics- intensive stuff like editing large photos in Gimp and watching streaming video where the older machine falls down. > | Ubuntu is also probably compiled as > | i386. I set Gentoo to build with... > | CFLAGS="-O2 -march=pentium3 -fomit-frame-pointer -mmmx -msse -mfpmath=sse" > | plus I throw in "mmx" and "sse" use flags. > > How much difference do you expect that to make? I would expect a > CPU usage difference that would be negligible. "That depends". PostgreSQL pounding away on your hard drive probably isn't going to see any noticable difference. mplayer, using mmx and sse2 will improve your "internet TV" experience. On newer CPUs with mmxext, sse2, sse3, 3dnow, etc, it gets even better. A couple of personal experiences I've had over the years. Remember way back when, when Mozilla 0.9x (no, *NOT* Phoenix/Firebird/Firefox 0.9x) was the current beta? The people who complain about Firefox being slow today would absolutely freak out with Mozilla 0.91 on a 450 mhz PIII with 128 megs of ram. That was *REAL* slow. Long before I ran Gentoo, this was my first time with optimizing the compilation. I'm *NOT* a programmer. I downloaded the tarballs and blindly followed instructions. I may as well have been running RPM. I did see a noticable speedup as a result of the optimizations. Mozilla 0.91 became almost usable on the Dell. At about 0.95, I made it my "production" browser, as it was becoming half-decent, with optimization. Then there is Xboing, an abandoned game that I first loaded under Debian. It has speed levels from 1..9. I could handle up to level 3 under Debian. *ON THE SAME MACHINE* under Gentoo, the balls went whizzing past me so fast I couldn't play it, even at speed level 1. The game has been long abandoned. I followed instructions on the Gentoo forum. Instead of automatically emerging Xboing, I manually stepped through the process until the source code was unpacked. Then I edited the C source code and greatly increased the delay factor in a timing loop. Then I resumed the build. The modified game is playable. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 29 14:25:07 2007 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 10:25:07 -0400 Subject: Xubuntu on 1999 Dell PIII 450mhz and 128 megs ram; not enough In-Reply-To: <200704282045.12293.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <20070428170743.GA18340@waltdnes.org> <200704282045.12293.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20070429142507.GA20454@waltdnes.org> On Sat, Apr 28, 2007 at 08:45:12PM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote > I think I might have to play with blackbox, need to figure out how > to put a few more things on the menu though (ubuntu package only > gives xterm, restart and exit options). I use pypanel for that stuff. it gives you the basic bar at the bottom that hides away until you bring your mouse pointer to the bottom. You get a small digital clock and icons for active tasks. You have to manually type in a list of programs and icons in the "LAUNCH_LIST" section of .pypanelrc. One question about Ubuntu; does it expect dhcp addresses to be handed out? The install never asked me a question about my network. My Dell has a bog-standard "tulip" chip for its NIC, so it should've been detected. My main machine's firewall logs showed traffic on port 67 from source 0.0.0.0 destination 255.255.255.255 around the time the Dell was being re-booted. This indicates that the NIC was detected and was being used. I didn't get around to setting my router to give out a dynamic IP address, but I could've done it if I thought Xubuntu was going to be feasable. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 Q. Mr. Ghandi, what do you think of Microsoft security? A. I think it would be a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 30 00:42:30 2007 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (tleslie) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 20:42:30 -0400 Subject: Is it360 the death of the linux show in TO? Message-ID: <1177893750.3862.357.camel@stan64.site> I reg. for it360 and only just now went to check out this years exhibitors, no novell, no hp, no vmware, no 3ware, no redhat, .... not a lot, now i don't know whether to go to the it360 now ?.... except maybe to go because this will be the last show? I thought it wasn't half bad the last two-three years, I am almost wondering if I am reading the wrong exhibitor list? You would think with Linux growth it would be increasing with respect to exhibitors. f%$^ing depressing. -tl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 30 02:00:13 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 22:00:13 -0400 Subject: assorted hardware for free Message-ID: <1177898413.24646.19.camel@localhost> ho, i need to do some spring cleaning and get rid of some older hardware i'd been hanging onto for sentimental reasons. none of it is guaranteed but all of it worked more or less the last time i tried them out. what i have: -smc barricade turbo smc2804wbr wireless router -smc barricade g smc2804wbrp-g router and printserver -HP omnibook 4100 (aging, bur runs xfce ok); a bit banged up from a bike accident but no functional issues that i'm aware of. not sure exactly what the specs are as i haven't booted it for a while. -an old digidesign sound card -- high quality but there are no *nix drivers - generic ethernet/modem card - a couple of old cases,, one with some removable drive casings - big honking scsi enclosure -- anyone want it anymore??? - other odds and ends best if you can pick the stuff up (just southeast of the dufferin subway stop in toronto --sorry to the non-toronto ubuntu-ca'ers). next prolonged sunny period, they go out on the corner, so the quicker you can respond the better. matt -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 30 02:05:24 2007 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 22:05:24 -0400 Subject: Is it360 the death of the linux show in TO? In-Reply-To: <1177893750.3862.357.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1177893750.3862.357.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <46354EE4.9030802@telly.org> tleslie wrote: > I reg. for it360 and only just now went to check out this years exhibitors, > no novell, no hp, no vmware, no 3ware, no redhat, .... > not a lot, > now i don't know whether to go to the it360 now ?.... > except maybe to go because this will be the last show? > > I thought it wasn't half bad the last two-three years, > I am almost wondering if I am reading > the wrong exhibitor list? > > You would think with Linux growth it would be increasing with respect to > exhibitors. > > f%$^ing depressing. > There's another angle on this. Linux is now part of the mainstream, and doesn't need a ghetto of its own. Open source is a significant part of overall IT strategy, and is rarely considered in a vacuum. Red Hat doesn't need to build awareness within the Linux community. Where Red Hat now exhibits is in IT shows aimed at specific industry sectors, where it competes with Microsoft, Unix vendors, other Linux vendors, and Oracle :-). Buyers won't go to a separate show just to see the Linux component. This, combined with the Internet's ability to serve as a resource centre and redefined business travel priorities, this has affected more than just the Toronto show. Remember the huge LinuxWorld show that used to be held every winter at NYC's Javitz Centre? It moved to Boston for two years and then just faded away. Everything's now consolidated at the summer show in SanFran. Others shows have already felt the pain -- remember Comdex? If anything, this transition indicates an important maturing of Linux. You don't go to see Linux at a Linux show anymore, you go to see Linux at mainstream IT shows. Shows like IT360 are trying to evolve to satisfy the needs of the Linux community, as well as those conference goers that want a broader scope (as well as new technologies, sich as this year's Asterisk and Open Source VOIP conference within IT360 and last year's Smalltalk presence). - Evan Disclaimer: I am doing some work under contract for IT360 show organizers. I'd still have the same opinion, though, even if I wasn't. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 30 02:12:04 2007 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 22:12:04 -0400 Subject: assorted hardware for free Message-ID: <1177899124.24646.24.camel@localhost> ok, first of all that last message was supposed to start 'hi', not 'ho'. and second, i left out the crown jewel of my collection -- the gorgeous but no-longer-especially-useful ibm thinkpad 701c, with the magnificent 'butterfly' keyboard that slides out when you open the lid. beatiful. but a 486 or something that can't run any modern linux distro. please give it a good home! matt ps, and third, sorry to break the thread, but my stupid popserver is infuriatingly slow the last few days, didn't want to wait for the message to come through... -- Matt Price History Dept University of Toronto matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 30 05:33:35 2007 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 01:33:35 -0400 Subject: Is it360 the death of the linux show in TO? In-Reply-To: <46354EE4.9030802-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1177893750.3862.357.camel@stan64.site> <46354EE4.9030802@telly.org> Message-ID: Evan Leibovitch wrote: > ... > want a broader scope (as well as new technologies, sich as this year's > Asterisk and Open Source VOIP conference within IT360 and last year's > Smalltalk presence). Smalltalk is present this year as well. BTW, anyone wanting to see a real working OLPC (a.k.a. $100 laptop) would want to attend: http://www.it360.ca/session_detail.cfm?id=324 IIUC, if you've registered for a superpass, it ought to entitle you to attend. Otherwise, you might be able to see it at the Squeak/Smalltalk booth (#627), or maybe the guys at the booth could point out the guy who has it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 30 15:07:31 2007 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:07:31 -0400 Subject: [OT] IBM RS/6000 43P-133 up for grabs Message-ID: Hi Everyone. I've got an old IBM RS/6000 model 43P-133 available to anyone who wants to come and pick it up. Here's the specs: Processor: PowerPC 604e - 133MHz Memory: 128Mb Disk: 2 x 4Gb SCSI disks, IDE CD-ROM drive, diskette drive Network: onboard 10Mb Ethernet, plus 2 x 10Mb ISA Ethernet cards Other: 2 x serial, 1 x parallel, 1 x game port, integrated sound card Operating System: AIX 4.3.3 ML11 Case size: Mid-tower BONUS: IBM G76 17" CRT monitor Notes: This machine is a nice little box that would be perfect for anyone who needs or wants to learn about AIX, IBM's flavour of UNIX. While it's not the latest/greatest release, the core OS concepts are all there. Memory expansion is limited (256Mb max), but as long as you're not running any kind of graphical environment, it should work just fine as a little web/db server (would run Drupal nicely). You can also add pre-compiled GNU software from www.bullfreeware.com. The other kinda neat feature is that it has both integrated SCSI and IDE adapters, so you could expand the disk space quite nicely. It uses standard PS2 style mouse and keyboard, and works perfectly through a KVM. The onboard ethernet card doesn't work for some reason, but there are two ISA ethernet cards that work just fine. The machine comes with the AIX 4.3.3 install CDs, plus the SMS (firmware) diskettes, and an ancient copy of Windows for Workgroups 3.1.1 PowerPC Edition. Hardware manuals can be downloaded in PDF format from www.ibm.com/pc/support (search on 7248-133). The hardware is supported up to AIX 5.1, but in my experience, this machine runs best with 4.3.3. And, if you're REALLY adventurous, you CAN actually install Linux on it (so this post is not entirely off-topic). None of the modern distros work I think, but there was once upon a time a version of Slackware that worked with it. The HOW-TO may still be on www.tldp.org; check it out. I'd really like to see the machine go to someone that will use it or learn from it. Please contact me off list; first one that comes to get it gets it. pm -- Paul Mora Registered Linux user #2065 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 30 16:12:06 2007 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:12:06 -0400 Subject: [OT] IBM RS/6000 43P-133 up for grabs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Everyone. Thanks for the interest, the machine has been claimed. Took all of 20 minutes. :-) pm -- Paul Mora Registered Linux user #2065 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 30 16:28:59 2007 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:28:59 -0400 Subject: [OT] IBM RS/6000 43P-133 up for grabs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <22e435080704300928y5f61da6cv2089c1b28e88dfa0@mail.gmail.com> On 4/30/07, Paul Mora wrote: > > > And, if you're REALLY adventurous, you CAN actually install Linux on > it (so this post is not entirely off-topic). None of the modern > distros work I think, but there was once upon a time a version of > Slackware that worked with it. The HOW-TO may still be on > www.tldp.org; check it out. > > I recall wasting way to many hours of my life on machine of this class, my recommendation would be to run AIX 5 on it. SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 30 19:16:42 2007 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:16:42 -0400 Subject: assorted hardware for free In-Reply-To: <1177899124.24646.24.camel@localhost> References: <1177899124.24646.24.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <4636409A.1060103@alteeve.com> Matt Price wrote: > ok, first of all that last message was supposed to start 'hi', not 'ho'. > > and second, i left out the crown jewel of my collection -- the gorgeous > but no-longer-especially-useful ibm thinkpad 701c, with the magnificent > 'butterfly' keyboard that slides out when you open the lid. beatiful. > but a 486 or something that can't run any modern linux distro. please > give it a good home! > > matt > > ps, and third, sorry to break the thread, but my stupid popserver is infuriatingly slow the last few days, didn't want to wait for the message to come through... > Is the wireless router up still? I'd be happy to nab it! :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 30 19:43:28 2007 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:43:28 -0400 Subject: 2 More Needed for ACM Senior Membership Application Message-ID: <1177962208.6339.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Hello All, I've got one industry person to support my nomination to become an ACM Senior Member. I'm looking for two more! If you can help, please contact me! I have to apply by the end of May. --- Just as I was going to let my Association of Computing Machinery membership expire, it was pointed out to me that as of this year I can qualify to become a Senior Member of the ACM. And I'm not even 65. For details on the advanced memberships of the ACM, visit this site: http://www.acm.org/awards/amg_call.html In order to qualify for senior membership, I need endorsements from 3 computer people who know me and are willing recommend me for my contributions to computing. The criteria for membership are available here: http://www.acm.org/awards/senior_member_nom_guide.html. My book "Linux Shell Scripting with BASH", my open source projects, PegaSoft presentations, my Lone Coder column, etc. may be acceptable criteria for endorsing my nomination. If you think my contributions to computing, open source or Linux should be recognized by the ACM and you are willing to stand up and endorse me, please email me. Ken B. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 30 21:45:35 2007 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:45:35 -0400 Subject: is LPIC Certifications Respected in industry. In-Reply-To: <20070427213945.GA21477-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880704261608h7e6732b0p5bdc8628d0485f67@mail.gmail.com> <20070427212718.GJ5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070427213945.GA21477@md5.ca> Message-ID: <20070430214535.GL5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Apr 27, 2007 at 05:39:45PM -0400, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > I think idea of certification is to catch the eye of the resumre reviewer, not > to instill credibility of the individual in their possible boss. For that you > have completed projects. Often people filtering out resumes are farthest from > technical field, as these things help. A+, CCNS, MCSE whatever. But that simply means that certifications are trying to solve a problem that should be solved with a much more direct approach. Stop having clueless people reviewing the resumes. I can dream can't I? :) Look that resume has shiny stars on it. Add that to the good pile. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dgardiner0821-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 30 03:35:47 2007 From: dgardiner0821-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (DANIEL GARDINER) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 23:35:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: assorted hardware for free In-Reply-To: <1177898413.24646.19.camel@localhost> References: <1177898413.24646.19.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <356422.65352.qm@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Matt Price wrote: > best if you can pick the stuff up (just southeast of > the dufferin subway > stop in toronto --sorry to the non-toronto > ubuntu-ca'ers). next > prolonged sunny period, they go out on the corner, > so the quicker you > can respond the better. If you don't get rid of everything might I suggest that you check out the list of Toronto environment days at http://www.toronto.ca/environment_days/schedule.htm and find a close event to take the items to for recycling? Daniel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 30 22:46:23 2007 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:46:23 -0400 Subject: is LPIC Certifications Respected in industry. In-Reply-To: <20070430214535.GL5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880704261608h7e6732b0p5bdc8628d0485f67@mail.gmail.com> <20070427212718.GJ5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070427213945.GA21477@md5.ca> <20070430214535.GL5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <463671BF.8080502@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Apr 27, 2007 at 05:39:45PM -0400, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > >> I think idea of certification is to catch the eye of the resumre reviewer, not >> to instill credibility of the individual in their possible boss. For that you >> have completed projects. Often people filtering out resumes are farthest from >> technical field, as these things help. A+, CCNS, MCSE whatever. >> > > But that simply means that certifications are trying to solve a problem > that should be solved with a much more direct approach. Stop having > clueless people reviewing the resumes. > > I can dream can't I? :) Look that resume has shiny stars on it. Add > that to the good pile. > I used to get some shiny stars back in public school! Haven't had any lately though. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 30 22:49:53 2007 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:49:53 -0400 Subject: is LPIC Certifications Respected in industry. In-Reply-To: <20070430214535.GL5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880704261608h7e6732b0p5bdc8628d0485f67@mail.gmail.com> <20070427212718.GJ5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20070427213945.GA21477@md5.ca> <20070430214535.GL5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420704301549j2405477bx1d162c3e0863eb7@mail.gmail.com> On 4/30/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I can dream can't I? :) Look that resume has shiny stars on it. Add > that to the good pile. Thought I'd chime in with a fortune I once received: Avoid hiring unlucky people: throw half the resumes in the trash without reading them. - Anonymous Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 30 23:52:47 2007 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:52:47 -0400 Subject: is LPIC Certifications Respected in industry. In-Reply-To: <20070427212718.GJ5576-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880704261608h7e6732b0p5bdc8628d0485f67@mail.gmail.com> <20070427212718.GJ5576@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Len, you think like me. There is a lot of crap people around in our lives, people without imagination, who however have influance in their life on how the selection process looks like. They often have no clue about what they are doing. After 12 years of living in Canada as a fucken in fact immmigrant I have now a better view and am not afraid to express myself. This society is sick, sick with purpose. It imports a lot well educated people but just exploits them after they are here. This is a sort of contemporary slavary. Except that slaves are not only these who know nothing. Now.,slaves are these who are educated also. I have a very rare and unusual luck of working with a man who is very open minded. That man asked me once: how many programming languages you know? I silly answered: perl, pascal, php... He replyed: I can program in any language. And yes, he can. Now, I kniw that I can also. Just give me an opportunity! Silly crap that has control over our lives will have no idea what I wrote above. zb. On 4/27/07, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 07:08:49PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > > Can people give me there input on what they think about LPI > ceritfications > > and if it makes people stand out when > > they have this certification (LPIC1 and LPIC2?) > > Well me personally don't have much respect of any kind for any of the > certifications. I prefer real experience. Of course I haven't had to > hire people, so it doesn't matter that much what I personally think of > them. :) I think of them mainly as an interesting puzzle to solve, > similar to crosswords and such. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: