From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 1 01:50:12 2006 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:50:12 -0400 Subject: relayhost when authentication is required In-Reply-To: References: <20060831171937.GB28391@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1157075412.5232.20.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2006-31-08 at 15:33 -0400, Paul Nash wrote: > > however our new evil isp (rogers/yahoo) requires > >authentication first. > > Install cyrus-sasl, rebuild postfix with sasl support. > > in /etc/postfix/main.cf: > > smtp_sasl_auth_enable = yes > smtp_sasl_password_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/sasl_passwd > smtp_sasl_security_options = > > in /etc/postfix/sasl_passwd: > > smtp.broadband.rogers.com myname-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org:mypasswd thanks to everyone for their help. this solution worked great, once i remembered to run postmap on /etc/postfix/sasl_passwd, which generates /etc/postfix/sasl_passwd.db. that's described here:http://www.tribulaciones.org/docs/postfix-sasl-tls-howto.html anyway thanks everyone. it's a huge help. now in addition to this i really feel my laptop ought to be able to switch postfix configurations when i go from location to location... but that's another story! thanks, matt > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 1 02:17:08 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 22:17:08 -0400 Subject: Linux may lose its chance of competing with Microsoft after the 64bit revolution gets underway In-Reply-To: <44F754C1.3020701-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <44F07632.4080900@rogers.com> <44F754C1.3020701@zleap.net> Message-ID: <44F79824.8050002@telly.org> paul sutton wrote: > I agree with this, why are we obsessed with the desktop, On the contrary, Linux to date has been "obsessed" with the server. It is only recently, within the last few years, that the Linux desktop has been mentioned at all as more than just a pretty UI for server admins and power users. Those of use who are old enough to remember the glory days of Linux recall that it was the lack of a credible desktop version that allowed Windows to encroach on its server territory. If your operation was going to be all-Windows or Windows/Unix, the logic went, wouldn't it be easier just to get both sides from one source? The story was compelling, especially to the small business sector that gleefully traded in its Unix-based Foxpros and Business Basics and Wyse 60s for Visual Basic and Access and talking paper clips. There is a lesson to be learned -- while I'm not amongst those who say Linux is a failure if it doesn't display Windows everywhere, I do believe that a credible desktop offering is very important to those advocates and vendors who need to demonstrate an corporate-quality end-to-end FOSS solution without needing to fall back on MS somewhere in the chain. IMO, credible does not mean that it needs to be as slick as the Mac or have as many third-party apps as MS-Windows. It just needs to be reasonably functional and easy to use by non-geeks. Things have come a very long way but there are still gaps that are fixable and can't be totally blamed on licensing issues (ie, better PDA connectivity, better interoperability between GNOME and KDE apps). As has been mentioned elsewhere, the client platform is not as monolythic as it used to be. Joining the traditional networked PCs are thin clients, PDAs, smartphones, networked game machines, the OLPC project, etc... and Linux has a growing presence here that shines as a flexible, extensible platform. Windows can continue to dominate the PC thick-client platform while seeing its share of the total client population plummet. If anything, Linux is unquestionably the current leader in scalability and end-to-end interoperability. It runs supercomputers and wristwatches. It arguably gave new life to the IBM mainframe product and powers millions of phones in Asia. In any case, Linux is doing quite well for itself in powering the servers that will give all those new clients something to do. A good desktop is a Really Nice Thing to have, but our world won't be made or broken based on whether your Fedora box can play Shockwave animations or do Pantone colour matching. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 1 04:35:03 2006 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 00:35:03 -0400 Subject: Linux may lose its chance of competing with Microsoft after the 64bit revolution gets underway In-Reply-To: <44F07632.4080900-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44F07632.4080900@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 8/26/06, Kush wrote: > This is a sobering scenario. > > Eric Raymond on desktop Linux > Desktop Linux - USA > Analysis -- Eric S. Raymond is one of the founders of open-source, and a > good deal of Linux's early popularity came from his non-stop beating of the > drum for ... > > Linux Guru: Desktop Window Closing > Red Herring - CA,USA > Eric Raymond on winning over the iPod generation, why Linux advocates don't > have much time to beat Microsoft, and the need for open source to conquer > hearts ... > I disagree. With 64Bit processing and multicore processors, Linux right now has the clear advantage. Microsoft's OSes (Vista included) do not make good use of either of these technologies. Anyone who's run both 64Bit Windows and 64Bit Linux will I am sure will agree with me that Linux is a much more mature 64Bit solution. While Microsoft has the large user base, Linux right now has the technological lead and I don't see them loosing it any time soon. -- Mark Lane, CET -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 1 11:12:24 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 07:12:24 -0400 Subject: Linux may lose its chance of competing with Microsoft after the 64bit revolution gets underway In-Reply-To: <44F754C1.3020701-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <44F07632.4080900@rogers.com> <44F754C1.3020701@zleap.net> Message-ID: <44F81598.10505@rogers.com> paul sutton wrote: > I agree with this, why are we obsessed with the desktop, Linux is > leading in other fields, e.g on web servers,also whenI watch science > programs in general when they are chatting to a scientest (or whoever) > in somecases the desktop software being used is not Windows and looks > more like nextstep (or perhaps gnustep). On one "Nova", I was able to identify SUSE Linux, on the scientist's computer. The show was about one of the interplanetary space probes, IIRC. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 1 13:15:06 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 09:15:06 -0400 Subject: georgetown In-Reply-To: <44F75198.50206-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <44F75198.50206@zleap.net> Message-ID: <200609010915.06189.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Thursday 31 August 2006 17:16, paul sutton wrote: > is anyone in georgetown, I am going to be there from tomorrow and over > the holiday weekend, n I may be able to meet up to chat about Linux > type stuff if anyone is interested. I am however I won't be here for the long weekend. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 1 14:39:14 2006 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 10:39:14 -0400 Subject: Looking for some help creating a HowTo for my online programing course using Cosmopod.com Message-ID: <200609011039.14683.ican@netrover.com> There is at least a couple of free online Linux distributions out there (that I'm aware of). http://www.cosmopod.com/ http://www.workspot.com I'm in a broadband challenged zone so I can't explore them as much as I would like. I operate several nofee online Linux Programming courses (http://www.icanprogram.com/nofeecourses.html) ... which are surprisingly still popular as they approach their 4th year. I've always aimed to offer my courses to the widest possible group of prospective students. Many of those may not have a Linux distribution installed on their computer (at work ... at school). A year or so ago I had a volunteer from Australia help with a Knoppix HowTo http://www.icanprogram.com/knoppixHowTo.html I'm looking for some broadband enabled volunteers to help create an equivalent HowTo for cosmopod.com (or similar online distro). If you are interested contact me offlist and we can discuss methodology etc. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From geofm-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 1 14:34:48 2006 From: geofm-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (GG.m) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 10:34:48 -0400 Subject: apt-get update In-Reply-To: <20060828184816.PHGV18394.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net-S6HM6mcWxYWbHxUYzX/Bp7Dks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <20060828184816.PHGV18394.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@smtp1.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <44F84508.6070909@sympatico.ca> geofm-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: A followup on apt-get and Kanotix. The following appeared on the home page of the Kanotix website, and I saw it today. ======== A package, that was meant for experimental has slipped into incoming today (Aug. 22) and will most likely be in next dist-upgrade. The package is xserver-xorg 1:1.1.1-3 Until that is fixed, there are 2 ways: -don't do dist-upgrade until further notice -put xserver-xorg on hold with echo xserver-xorg-core hold|dpkg --set-selections If you read this too late, you can fetch xserver-xorg-core/testing to fix things source: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/08/msg01007.html Edit: Open Office hangs in dist-upgrade With todays version 2.0.3-6 the problem is fixed, so dist-upgrade runs fine again In todays' dist-upgrade open office causes the system to hang. Apt-get -f install has to be done and that removes the following: openoffice.org, openoffice.org-draw, openoffice.org-impress After apt-get -f install do a: apt-get install openoffice.org That willl pull -draw & -impress as well. If any other errors should occur or other packages be removed, please inform us at irc #kanotix ===== Then the following message: ======= The issue has been resolved for kanotix, upgrades are supposed to be safe again - in case you got hit in the mean time, please upgrade xserver-xorg-core again and revert "echo xserver-xorg-core hold|dpkg --set-selections" with "echo xserver-xorg-core install|dpkg --set-selections" ======= It turns out that there was a problem with the repos. I don't think it was fixed even by Aug. 26, the last time I reinstalled Kanotix. I have just again reinstalled it. All seems good so far, however, I am doing limited updates. I am using Synaptic to install packages, plus I am limiting sources.list to debian stable and testing only. Unstable keeps wanting to update CUPS. Doing that in the past has caused CUPS to go completely AWOL on my system. Limiting sources.list to debian testing allows for the retention of the old version of CUPS which has the old HP drivers that I need, plus the Brother drivers also operate flawlessly. Hope that this helps someone. However, while I like using Kanotix, for me the smoothest, least troublesome operating distro that I have ever used is PCLinuxOS. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 1 15:44:30 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 11:44:30 -0400 Subject: Is your distribution LSB compliant? Message-ID: <44F8555E.5010809@telly.org> http://www.freestandards.org/en/LSB_Distribution_Status -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 1 16:01:46 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 12:01:46 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? Message-ID: <1157126506.4310.16.camel@spot1.localhost.com> I was watching Global (Rogers 3) this morning. It seems their morning news staff feel Micro$oft is a 'trusted source'. The topic was back to school. Global news recommends that students should not use regular encyclopedia's or http://www.wikipedia.org/ as a reference but should use Encarta. This was not a commercial (it was publicity). So what have we learned? Well given events over the last 12 years ...if you lie, cheat, deceive, manipulate the government, patent office and public you eventually cross a threshold from criminal to 'trusted source'. Sounds something like George Orwell's Animal Farm...anyone read that? BTW I'm now running Novell Desktop 10 and it's great!! Included is Helix Banshee, Firefox and Evolution...the best yet. Regards, Rick Tomaschuk "We need to slaughter Novell before they get stronger." -Former Microsoft VP James Allchin in a 09-9-91 e-mail (as revealed in Caldera v. Microsoft) http://www.msboycott.com/quotes/ -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 1 17:44:25 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 13:44:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <1157126506.4310.16.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1157126506.4310.16.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Sep 2006, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > "We need to slaughter Novell before they get stronger." > -Former Microsoft VP James Allchin in a 09-9-91 e-mail (as revealed in > Caldera v. Microsoft) > http://www.msboycott.com/quotes/ From that page: "Hey, is it the tradition here to give Bill the finger when you go through these doors?" -Open Source advocate Richard Stallman to a student outside Stanford's Bill Gates Building "Open Source advocate Richard Stallman"?? "Open Source advocate"??? -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 1 18:05:37 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 14:05:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <1157126506.4310.16.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1157126506.4310.16.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <20060901180537.95422.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > I was watching Global (Rogers 3) this morning. It > seems their morning > news staff feel Micro$oft is a 'trusted source'. The > topic was back to > school. Global news recommends that students should > not use regular > encyclopedia's or http://www.wikipedia.org/ as a > reference but should > use Encarta. This was not a commercial (it was > publicity). So what have > we learned? Well given events over the last 12 years > ...if you lie, > cheat, deceive, manipulate the government, patent > office and public you > eventually cross a threshold from criminal to > 'trusted source'. Sounds > something like George Orwell's Animal Farm...anyone > read that? > BTW I'm now running Novell Desktop 10 and it's > great!! Included is Helix > Banshee, Firefox and Evolution...the best yet. > Regards, > Rick Tomaschuk I have not read Animal Farm I'm afraid, but I do know my industry history well enough to know that Microsoft is not the first firm in our industry to be a less than honourable player. Go back to the 1960's and the "jokes" were about IBM and the seven dwarfs (UNIVAC, Burroughs, Scientific Data Systems, Control Data Corporation, General Electric, RCA and Honeywell). Namely, IBM totally DOMINATED the computer industry with only a handful of small players on the side, in a way that is in many ways comparable to the current situation with Microsoft. IBM achieved its position of power through some morally/legally questionable tactics (and spent time in court over such tactics). Now, IBM has been brought into line (due to Microsoft, sigh, groan) and is now a much more respected, if still very much a hardball player (as SCO is learning the hard way) in the industry. This situation did not stop at least one of my instructors in college during the 1980s from worshipping the ground IBM walked on. The fact that I thought it obvious to all that IBM was at the time something of a bully who needed to be taken down a notch wasn't obvious to all. I do admit to liking some Microsoft keyboards/mice, but overall I see Microsoft in exactly the same light as I saw IBM in the mid-1980s a bully who needs to be taken down a notch (or two). I do hope Microsoft coming down does not happen because a new comparable nasty shows up and that Microsoft does evolve into something respectable (i.e.: maybe just makers of nice keyboards and mice :-) ). Colin McGregor > "We need to slaughter Novell before they get > stronger." > -Former Microsoft VP James Allchin in a 09-9-91 > e-mail (as revealed in > Caldera v. Microsoft) > http://www.msboycott.com/quotes/ > > -- > http://www.TorontoNUI.ca > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 1 18:16:32 2006 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Mike Oliver) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 11:16:32 -0700 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <20060901180537.95422.qmail-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901180537.95422.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44F87900.8040008@mathstat.yorku.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > I do admit to liking some Microsoft keyboards/mice, > but overall I see Microsoft in exactly the same light > as I saw IBM in the mid-1980s a bully who needs to be > taken down a notch (or two). I do hope Microsoft > coming down does not happen because a new comparable > nasty shows up and that Microsoft does evolve into > something respectable (i.e.: maybe just makers of nice > keyboards and mice :-) ). They do one other thing well, and that's Developer Studio. Why can't somebody make a decent IDE, or more to the point a decent debugger, for Linux? I've futzed around with Eclipse, but while it has problems of its own, the biggest problem is that it sits on top of gdb, which is just blatantly broken. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 1 18:25:07 2006 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 14:25:07 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? Message-ID: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> I'm thinking of getting a new machine -- so I'm interested in any Linux war stories, good or bad, with the following hardware: AMD Athlon 64 X2 (dual core) Asus M2V Socket AM2 (Via K8T890) motherboard Asus EN7300GS GeForce 7300GS video card I expect to run Gentoo, to get the full 64-bit environment for the Athlon, and because I have to do something with the spare processor cycles ;-) -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A2 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 1 19:42:17 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 15:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: comparing CPU's In-Reply-To: <1156774633.28407.217.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <13E6EC4F-F447-4DE8-9E62-DC369192D4FD@visibleassets.com> <1156774633.28407.217.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Aug 2006, ted leslie wrote: > but when i put 9GB ram in it, and a 10K raptor > and a Nvidia 7900 vid card > and those additions made way more of a difference then the processor > upgrade. Absolutely. I/O (whether it be disk, memory or whatever) is almost always the bottleneck in a modern system. Unless you're in one of a small number of specialised fields CPU speed is rarely the limiting factor. Unfortunately CPU manufacturers and the IT industry as a whole have convinced most lay-people that a faster CPU is the solution to most problems. We're seeing smiliar misinformation at the moment with respect to dual core CPUs. Most users really can get by on a single core without any problems. Sure it is nice to have dual core but I wouldn't shell out any $$$ unless you've determined CPU performance really is your bottleneck[1]. A related issue is memory usage. Modern OSes do not just use memory to run apps. Less experienced GTALUGers may want to open a shell on their Linux box and run free. Checkout how the system is allocating memory. In a system with lots of RAM you will probably find a large disk cache in use - this goes a long way to improving the overall performance of the system. [1] and I mean through proper profiling :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 1 20:13:09 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 16:13:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <20060901182507.GA14265-bIfI8A3ED0pQNIHP08TOaLz7B6FnHHLR9KrOEb1XlYA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060901201309.7098.qmail@web61323.mail.yahoo.com> I have installed 64 bit Ubuntu (You can download it at http://gulus.usherbrooke.ca/pub/distro/ubuntu/iso/6.06/ubuntu-6.06.1-alternate-amd64.iso) on Gateway GT4010 (AMD Athlon 64 3500 2.2GHz processor, 1GB, nVidia GeForce 6100 onboard graphics) without a hitch. EK --- Peter King wrote: > I'm thinking of getting a new machine -- so I'm > interested in any > Linux war stories, good or bad, with the following > hardware: > > AMD Athlon 64 X2 (dual core) > Asus M2V Socket AM2 (Via K8T890) motherboard > Asus EN7300GS GeForce 7300GS video card > > I expect to run Gentoo, to get the full 64-bit > environment for the > Athlon, and because I have to do something with the > spare processor > cycles ;-) > > -- > Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Department of Philosophy > 215 Huron Street > The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc > Toronto, ON M5S 1A2 > CANADA > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > ========================================================================= > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 > 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 1 20:36:09 2006 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 16:36:09 -0400 Subject: Inquiry about FREE mailing lists Message-ID: <44F86179.14102.1F99DF@sciguy.vex.net> Hello I just wanted to run this past some people. I am planning to maintain a mailing list for a group of people, and I was wondering if there are any trustworthy providers of this service. I have tried three so far, and have not gotten to far. I was wondering if anyone can sayt anything about their reputations, and probably suggest a reputable provider. Since we are on a budget, I wish to stick to FREE email lists. www.coolist.com I created a list and added some "test users" (my alternate email addresses), but the users could not verify themselves. The link to verify the subscription was to a server called "28.nu". The "nu" country code belongs to a Pacific Island called Niue, about 2000 km northeast of Welland, New Zealand. I think it is a dead server, and no one is taking care of it. Emails to tech support bounced. Nice interface, though. Configurable in all the important ways. www.bravenet.com I had used BraveNet before for other services, and know about the advertising. I had set up a request for a mailing list, and the web server tells me that information about my password has been mailed to me. That was about 4 hours ago, and I am still waiting. Again, I intend to set up test users and see if it blows up on me. www.freelists.org Sounds OK, and they tell me I have to wait 24h until they approve of my idea, but something on their website said that they dealt with "teachnical topics" only. The purpose of my list is to discuss various managerial matters, so it is not strictly technical. I noticed from their display of list topics that they seem to allow some departure from technology-related stuff. But once again, I don't know anything about these guys, except that they are very pro-open-source, and run Linux, plus any other 'net-worthy freeware they can get their hands on. So they score points there. Any comments or suggestions are welcome. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 1 22:14:14 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 18:14:14 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <20060901182507.GA14265-bIfI8A3ED0pQNIHP08TOaLz7B6FnHHLR9KrOEb1XlYA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060901221414.GA28632@wp.magstar.net> On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 02:25:07PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > I'm thinking of getting a new machine -- so I'm interested in any > Linux war stories, good or bad, with the following hardware: > > AMD Athlon 64 X2 (dual core) > Asus M2V Socket AM2 (Via K8T890) motherboard > Asus EN7300GS GeForce 7300GS video card > > I expect to run Gentoo, to get the full 64-bit environment for the > Athlon, and because I have to do something with the spare processor > cycles ;-) Interesting... I'm thinking about getting rid of all my P2/P3's (all 4 of them) and replace them with a single P4 system. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 1 22:44:32 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 18:44:32 -0400 Subject: Inquiry about FREE mailing lists In-Reply-To: <44F86179.14102.1F99DF-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <44F86179.14102.1F99DF@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10609011544u2cbe2692g144a3c101f71302e@mail.gmail.com> On 9/1/06, Paul King wrote: > Hello > > I just wanted to run this past some people. I am planning to > maintain a mailing list for a group of people, and I was wondering > if there are any trustworthy providers of this service. > > I have tried three so far, and have not gotten to far. I was > wondering if anyone can sayt anything about their reputations, and > probably suggest a reputable provider. > > Since we are on a budget, I wish to stick to FREE email lists. What about setting up a Yahoo Group? Has anyone here done such a thing? I just subscribed to the 'Microscope' Yahoo Group... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Microscope/ ...with 1,900+ members, regular traffic and it seems to work well. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 1 23:03:23 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 19:03:23 -0400 Subject: Is your distribution LSB compliant? In-Reply-To: <44F8555E.5010809-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <44F8555E.5010809@telly.org> Message-ID: <44F8BC3B.4010204@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > http://www.freestandards.org/en/LSB_Distribution_Status > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml Yup. SUSE 10 & 10.1 here. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 1 23:23:51 2006 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 19:23:51 -0400 Subject: Inquiry about FREE mailing lists In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10609011544u2cbe2692g144a3c101f71302e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <44F86179.14102.1F99DF@sciguy.vex.net> <61e9e2b10609011544u2cbe2692g144a3c101f71302e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44F8C107.8010301@yahoo.ca> Daniel Armstrong wrote: > On 9/1/06, Paul King wrote: [...] >> Since we are on a budget, I wish to stick to FREE email lists. > > What about setting up a Yahoo Group? Has anyone here done such a > thing? I just subscribed to the 'Microscope' Yahoo Group... Google Groups can do private e-mail lists as well, or public -- It's up the list-mom. I'm on one presently and it works well, and has for the past 18 months. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 1 23:59:17 2006 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 19:59:17 -0400 Subject: Inquiry about FREE mailing lists In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10609011544u2cbe2692g144a3c101f71302e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <44F86179.14102.1F99DF@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <44F89115.27051.D99241@sciguy.vex.net> As an information source, OK, but it doesn't work for time- sensitive information. Trouble with yahoo groups is that you can't broadcast messages. If I need to send an announcement to everyone in my group (this is supposed to be a closed-subscription list), how do I know that everyone has read the email if I have a meeting to announce? Paul King On 1 Sep 2006 at 18:44, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > On 9/1/06, Paul King wrote: > > Hello > > > > I just wanted to run this past some people. I am planning to > > maintain a mailing list for a group of people, and I was wondering > > if there are any trustworthy providers of this service. > > > > I have tried three so far, and have not gotten to far. I was > > wondering if anyone can sayt anything about their reputations, and > > probably suggest a reputable provider. > > > > Since we are on a budget, I wish to stick to FREE email lists. > > What about setting up a Yahoo Group? Has anyone here done such a > thing? I just subscribed to the 'Microscope' Yahoo Group... > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Microscope/ > > ...with 1,900+ members, regular traffic and it seems to work well. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 00:12:44 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 20:12:44 -0400 Subject: Inquiry about FREE mailing lists In-Reply-To: <44F8C107.8010301-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <44F86179.14102.1F99DF@sciguy.vex.net> <61e9e2b10609011544u2cbe2692g144a3c101f71302e@mail.gmail.com> <44F8C107.8010301@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <61e9e2b10609011712k7e9a6009yc72090a1f4d1a833@mail.gmail.com> On 9/1/06, Stephen Allen wrote: > Daniel Armstrong wrote: > > On 9/1/06, Paul King wrote: > > [...] > > >> Since we are on a budget, I wish to stick to FREE email lists. > > > > What about setting up a Yahoo Group? Has anyone here done such a > > thing? I just subscribed to the 'Microscope' Yahoo Group... > > Google Groups can do private e-mail lists as well, or public -- It's up > the list-mom. I'm on one presently and it works well, and has for the > past 18 months. Google Groups look awesome! I just took a tour through the options - http://groups.google.com/intl/en/googlegroups/tour/index.html... thanks for the heads-up... I can definitely see uses for this free service... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 00:25:01 2006 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 20:25:01 -0400 Subject: Inquiry about FREE mailing lists In-Reply-To: <44F86179.14102.1F99DF-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <44F86179.14102.1F99DF@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <1f13df280609011725x21de68d3neb9063cc3581c08@mail.gmail.com> On 9/1/06, Paul King wrote: > I just wanted to run this past some people. I am planning to > maintain a mailing list for a group of people, and I was wondering > if there are any trustworthy providers of this service. I'm going to second the suggestion of yahoo groups, although I haven't adminned one. I'm a member of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altkeyboards/ , but I _never_ go to the website because I've always treated it as a mailing list. I've been on and off that list for several years, and they've been a yahoo group for about six years - I've been quite happy with the setup from a user point of view. I receive my messages from them exactly as I do from GTALUG. People have the option of getting mails or visiting the site (you may want them to receive emails, but options are generally good). It appears yahoo groups can have closed membership. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 02:19:35 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 22:19:35 -0400 Subject: Is your distribution LSB compliant? In-Reply-To: <44F8555E.5010809-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <44F8555E.5010809@telly.org> Message-ID: nope ! not yet, anyway; ubuntu djp On 9/1/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > > http://www.freestandards.org/en/LSB_Distribution_Status > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 02:30:41 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 22:30:41 -0400 Subject: Is your distribution LSB compliant? In-Reply-To: References: <44F8555E.5010809@telly.org> Message-ID: <44F8ECD1.4030803@rogers.com> David J Patrick wrote: > nope ! > not yet, anyway; ubuntu > djp Curious. I don't see Yggdrasil on that list. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 12:14:38 2006 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 08:14:38 -0400 Subject: Bot Posse Message-ID: <44F975AE.5050807@execulink.com> Hello LUG, I noticed the term "Bot Posse" in an article from August 2006 Linux Magazine, but first there is a write up today over at http://isc.sans.org/diary.php touching on what McAfee calls W32/SDbot.worm, Sophos calls W32/Vanebot-A and Symantec calls W32.Randex.GEL. It has amassed exploits from the last two years including MS04-007, MS05-017, MS05-039 and MS06-040. Also that it has been out for a couple of days now. I submit that it has never gone away. Further down the diary's page is this statement: "Now, since cleaning botnets, is... pretty much impossible, prevention is the key. If you DO get hit with a botnet infection running throughout your network, my general recomendation is.. rebuild the box." The Internet Storm Center's handler Joel goes on to say, "Now, I know that sounds drastic to some of you, but it gets rid of the worm, gets rid of the botnet, and plus you have a brand new box!" Joel concludes the statement with "So, maintain those images, keep your antivirus up to date, patch your boxes, and make sure your IDS/IPS is up to date." So on the one hand we have "cleaning botnets, is... impossible" and on the other "rebuild... gets rid of the botnet." Is it impossible to tear down botnets and why? greg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 12:17:24 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 08:17:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: More Mindless Self-Promotion Message-ID: <20060902121724.2780.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> The September 2006 issue of Tux Magazine is out and there are two articles in there by me: "Doom 3 and Quake 3, or Nightmares Spoken Here" pages 25 - 29 "Freespire 1.0.2" pages 56 - 58 So far I have spotted 3 errors in the above articles. One caused by the editor asking for a very last minute addition which I put in, but it caused other problems in the text, all but one of which I caught and fixed (left in a command that while it will not cause true evil to happen, also doesn't make sense given the situation)... The other two errors were things the editor put in, sigh... Any event lightweight looks at some dark and nasty games plus a look at a not quite ready for prime time Linux distro. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 14:20:26 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 10:20:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux may lose its chance of competing with Microsoft after the 64bit revolution gets underway In-Reply-To: <44F81598.10505-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44F07632.4080900@rogers.com> <44F754C1.3020701@zleap.net> <44F81598.10505@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Sep 2006, James Knott wrote: > On one "Nova", I was able to identify SUSE Linux, on the scientist's > computer. The show was about one of the interplanetary space probes, IIRC. Some years ago a friend of mine was interviewed by a science program for some revolutionary work he was doing[1]. Not only did he set his office up to prominently display his Linux based PC on film but he left various images of the HUMBUG LUG (http://www.humbug.org.au) on the screen and around the office to try to get it on film too. The editors managed to cut all of the references to HUMBUG out of the piece. Oh well, I guess they were on to him :) [1] On robotics IIRC - he's done work on revolutionary projects in a number of areas - very smart cookie. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 14:54:41 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 09:54:41 -0500 Subject: Is your distribution LSB compliant? In-Reply-To: <44F8ECD1.4030803-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44F8555E.5010809@telly.org> <44F8ECD1.4030803@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990609020754k14ceb557i1b237b30aba647d@mail.gmail.com> On 9/1/06, James Knott wrote: > David J Patrick wrote: > > nope ! > > not yet, anyway; ubuntu > > djp > > Curious. I don't see Yggdrasil on that list. ;-) Aah!! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 14:57:28 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 10:57:28 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <20060901180537.95422.qmail-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901180537.95422.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1157209049.3880.42.camel@spot1.localhost.com> On Fri, 2006-09-01 at 14:05 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > I have not read Animal Farm I'm afraid, but I do know Animal Farm is a satirical allegory of Soviet totalitarianism. Major events in the book are based on ones from the Soviet Union during the Stalin era. (From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_farm ...sorry I don't have Encarta) > my industry history well enough to know that Microsoft > is not the first firm in our industry to be a less > than honourable player. > > Go back to the 1960's and the "jokes" were about IBM > and the seven dwarfs (UNIVAC, Burroughs, Scientific > Data Systems, Control Data Corporation, General > Electric, RCA and Honeywell). Namely, IBM totally > DOMINATED the computer industry with only a handful of > small players on the side, in a way that is in many > ways comparable to the current situation with > Microsoft. IBM achieved its position of power through > some morally/legally questionable tactics (and spent > time in court over such tactics). Now, IBM has been > brought into line (due to Microsoft, sigh, groan) and > is now a much more respected, if still very much a > hardball player (as SCO is learning the hard way) in > the industry. Companies such as you mentioned exist due to the fact that most of the population is asleep or spend most of their time drinking beer. One day (when the wake up) the find a monopolistic company dominating their industry and they themselves are out of work. Another reason is that most people are just too 'chicken' or lazy to start their own business and follow through on the work to make it successful. Add to the mix corrupt lawyers, politicians and you end up with with unhappy campers demonstrating/complaining about some sad cause. (see: softwood lumber) > This situation did not stop at least one of my > instructors in college during the 1980s from > worshipping the ground IBM walked on. The fact that I > thought it obvious to all that IBM was at the time > something of a bully who needed to be taken down a I though Micro$oft was fine till they started focusing on world domination and quality control went out the window(tm). ;) > notch wasn't obvious to all. > > I do admit to liking some Microsoft keyboards/mice, > but overall I see Microsoft in exactly the same light > as I saw IBM in the mid-1980s a bully who needs to be > taken down a notch (or two). I do hope Microsoft I have among other things a 10+ year old no name great quality keyboard and circa 1996 IBM and Compaq mice ;) I've never had a reason to consider buying new ones... > coming down does not happen because a new comparable > nasty shows up and that Microsoft does evolve into > something respectable That says a lot about the hypocrisy in North America. Basically the message is: Rob a bank, If you don't end up in jail use the money to start a legitimate business and then moralize the population. Afterward move into respectable venues such as charity and moralize the population. Sounds reasonable... RickT > > "We need to slaughter Novell before they get > > stronger." > > -Former Microsoft VP James Allchin in a 09-9-91 > > e-mail (as revealed in > > Caldera v. Microsoft) > > http://www.msboycott.com/quotes/ > > > > -- > > http://www.TorontoNUI.ca > > > > > > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 15:19:40 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 11:19:40 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <1157209049.3880.42.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901180537.95422.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157209049.3880.42.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <200609021119.40414.softquake@gmail.com> On Saturday 02 September 2006 10:57, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > On Fri, 2006-09-01 at 14:05 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > > I have not read Animal Farm I'm afraid, but I do know > > Animal Farm is a satirical allegory of Soviet totalitarianism. Major > events in the book are based on ones from the Soviet Union during the > Stalin era. (From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_farm ...sorry I > don't have Encarta) Well, wikipedia is certainly either not a fully trustfull source of information. Was 1984 based on Soviet Union? I doubt that. I doubt also that the Animal Farm was. Orwell wrote rather about the possible evolution of the western civilization. Was he so wrong? In some sense no: 911 is an example. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paul-trWFDORQd8hBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 15:30:26 2006 From: paul-trWFDORQd8hBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Paul Osman) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 11:30:26 -0400 Subject: OT: Orwell (Was: Why not Linux?) In-Reply-To: <200609021119.40414.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901180537.95422.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157209049.3880.42.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <200609021119.40414.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7B7AEA0F-AFD1-4F95-A44D-733A12C6A652@enomaly.com> On 2-Sep-06, at 11:19 AM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On Saturday 02 September 2006 10:57, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: >> On Fri, 2006-09-01 at 14:05 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >>> I have not read Animal Farm I'm afraid, but I do know >> >> Animal Farm is a satirical allegory of Soviet totalitarianism. Major >> events in the book are based on ones from the Soviet Union during the >> Stalin era. (From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ >> Animal_farm ...sorry I >> don't have Encarta) > > Well, wikipedia is certainly either not a fully trustfull source of > information. > > Was 1984 based on Soviet Union? I doubt that. I doubt also that the > Animal > Farm was. > > Orwell wrote rather about the possible evolution of the western > civilization. > Was he so wrong? In some sense no: 911 is an example. > > zb. Hard to say exactly what Orwell's feelings about the Soviet Union were. Depends on what time he was writing I think. In "Homage to Catalonia", he describes his experiences fighting with the Communists in the Spanish Civil War. He was a member of the POUM (Workers' Party of Marxist Unification) which was eventually outlawed by the Communist Party, leaving many members, including Orwell feeling betrayed. He also seemed to have a lot of sympathy for the Anarchists in the CNT/FAI, who obviously were not fans of the Communist Party in Spain or it's backers in the Soviet Union. I think 1984 and Animal Farm were probably both based on his worries about totalitarianism in general... these views were probably shaped by both his outlook on Western Civilization and his experiences with Soviet backed Communists. Cheers, - Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 16:23:04 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 12:23:04 -0400 Subject: Is your distribution LSB compliant? In-Reply-To: <44F8555E.5010809-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <44F8555E.5010809@telly.org> Message-ID: On 9/1/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > http://www.freestandards.org/en/LSB_Distribution_Status It seems to me that the importance or value of this is not particularly growing. I daresay that I have never been in a situation where I was looking for LSB compliance. The sorts of software that I generally care to run tends to work fine on pretty well any distribution. Indeed, there's a significant vital subset that works fine on AIX, which is demonstrably not very similar to Linux. The thing for which LSB was supposed to be useful was the deployment of proprietary third party software, and as the set of free stuff grows, that seems to be turning more and more into a niche, as opposed to something of vital widespread importance. Sometimes, by the way, the compatibility comes "for free." On one occasion, coworkers accidentally installed database binaries built for RHAS/IA-32 on a SuSE/AMD-64 system. NO LSB was thought about in this process. Remarkably, nobody noticed the mismatch for several weeks; the IA-32 binaries were invisibly running fine (and this included some challenging bits like database replication :-)). I only discovered the problem when trying to add in a "3rd party" library, at which point the architecture mismatch emerged. All wound up happy; we were able to fix the mismatch without much difficulty. But other than IBM pronouncements that they think it's important to ISVs, I really haven't seen anyone looking for LSB compliance. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 16:54:20 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 12:54:20 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <200609021119.40414.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901180537.95422.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157209049.3880.42.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <200609021119.40414.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 9/2/06, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On Saturday 02 September 2006 10:57, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > On Fri, 2006-09-01 at 14:05 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > > > I have not read Animal Farm I'm afraid, but I do know > > > > Animal Farm is a satirical allegory of Soviet totalitarianism. Major > > events in the book are based on ones from the Soviet Union during the > > Stalin era. (From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_farm ...sorry I > > don't have Encarta) > > Well, wikipedia is certainly either not a fully trustfull source of > information. > > Was 1984 based on Soviet Union? I doubt that. I doubt also that the Animal > Farm was. Animal Farm is commonly compared to how the Soviet Union came to be... http://www.netcharles.com/orwell/essays/ukrainian-af-pref.htm http://www.novelguide.com/animalfarm/characterprofiles.html http://www.turnerlearning.com/tntlearning/animalfarm/afsymbol.html > Orwell wrote rather about the possible evolution of the western civilization. > Was he so wrong? In some sense no: 911 is an example. Orwell was definitely a "leftist," but his experiences in the Spanish Civil War apparently left him a strong opponent of Stalin. _Animal Farm_'s character, Napoleon, is generally compared to Stalin, much as Snowball is compared to Trotsky. It would be an oversimplification of Orwell to assume that everything he wrote was about the West's evils. Of course, all of the above is quite susceptible to reinterpretation. It would be best to go to Orwell's own words as to what Animal Farm was intended to be about: It is, in contrast, fair to say that 1984 (once planned to be called "The Last Man in Europe") has, as its locale, something resembling a "western" power. - Winston lives in the ruins of London - Oceania is a naval power, reminiscent of when the sun never set on the British Empire - They use dollars, and the empire includes the territory of the USA But viewing it as a pure "future history of the West" is also oversimplistic, as Oceania adopts things directly from a whole assortment of sources, including the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. There's a LOT that is ambiguous in 1984, and the way that Al Qaeda has, in effect, re-emerged as an expression of the Ottoman Empire, is quite a change of topic that 1984 did NOT anticipate. It viewed there being three powers: the West, Soviet East, and Asian East. The notion that a radical Islam would rise up to be of interest wasn't in his mind; it's an unexpected result that oil money has brought that back up. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 17:02:12 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 13:02:12 -0400 Subject: OT: Orwell (Was: Why not Linux?) In-Reply-To: <7B7AEA0F-AFD1-4F95-A44D-733A12C6A652-trWFDORQd8hBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901180537.95422.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157209049.3880.42.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <200609021119.40414.softquake@gmail.com> <7B7AEA0F-AFD1-4F95-A44D-733A12C6A652@enomaly.com> Message-ID: On 9/2/06, Paul Osman wrote: > On 2-Sep-06, at 11:19 AM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > > On Saturday 02 September 2006 10:57, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > >> On Fri, 2006-09-01 at 14:05 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > >>> I have not read Animal Farm I'm afraid, but I do know > >> > >> Animal Farm is a satirical allegory of Soviet totalitarianism. Major > >> events in the book are based on ones from the Soviet Union during the > >> Stalin era. (From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ > >> Animal_farm ...sorry I > >> don't have Encarta) > > > > Well, wikipedia is certainly either not a fully trustfull source of > > information. > > > > Was 1984 based on Soviet Union? I doubt that. I doubt also that the > > Animal > > Farm was. > > > > Orwell wrote rather about the possible evolution of the western > > civilization. > > Was he so wrong? In some sense no: 911 is an example. > > > > zb. > > Hard to say exactly what Orwell's feelings about the Soviet Union > were. Depends on what time he was writing I think. In "Homage to > Catalonia", he describes his experiences fighting with the Communists > in the Spanish Civil War. He was a member of the POUM (Workers' Party > of Marxist Unification) which was eventually outlawed by the > Communist Party, leaving many members, including Orwell feeling > betrayed. He also seemed to have a lot of sympathy for the Anarchists > in the CNT/FAI, who obviously were not fans of the Communist Party in > Spain or it's backers in the Soviet Union. Actually, it's not hard to say what his feelings were. He was pretty explicit about them in his preface to the Ukranian translation of Animal Farm: > I think 1984 and Animal Farm were probably both based on his worries > about totalitarianism in general... these views were probably shaped > by both his outlook on Western Civilization and his experiences with > Soviet backed Communists. 1984 was definitely ambiguous; Animal Farm was NOT. >From the preface: "I do not wish to comment on the work; if it does not speak for itself, it is a failure. But I should like to emphasise two points: first, that although the various episodes are taken from the actual history of the Russian Revolution, they are dealt with schematically and their chronological order is changed; this was necessary for the symmetry of the story. The second point has been missed by most critics, possibly because I did not emphasise it sufficiently. A number of readers may finish the book with the impression that it ends in the complete reconciliation of the pigs and the humans. That was not my intention; on the contrary I meant it to end on a loud note of discord, for I wrote it immediately after the Teheran Conference which everybody thought had established the best possible relations between the USSR and the West. I personally did not believe that such good relations would last long; and as events have shown, I wasn't far wrong." There is nothing that is at all unclear about: "the various episodes are taken from the actual history of the Russian Revolution" -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 17:18:42 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 13:18:42 -0400 Subject: OT: Orwell (Was: Why not Linux?) In-Reply-To: <7B7AEA0F-AFD1-4F95-A44D-733A12C6A652-trWFDORQd8hBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901180537.95422.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157209049.3880.42.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <200609021119.40414.softquake@gmail.com> <7B7AEA0F-AFD1-4F95-A44D-733A12C6A652@enomaly.com> Message-ID: <44F9BCF2.9010803@telly.org> Christopher did a good job in helping solidify the links between Animal Farm the the Russian Revolution. Adding to what he said, specific comparisons between Animal House characters/concepts and counterparts in the revolution (and the regime to follow) can be found at http://barney.gonzaga.edu/~sbennet3/mead/lessonplans/animalfarm.htm > Hard to say exactly what Orwell's feelings about the Soviet Union were. I think that Orwell's feelings were quite clear. His own POV was espressed through Benjamin the donkey, though arguably they could be extended to any revolution leading to totalitarian control. In the end the lessons of the book are summarized well by two famous British phrases: "Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely." -- Lord Acton "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" -- Roger Daltry - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 19:06:45 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 15:06:45 -0400 Subject: OT: Orwell (Was: Why not Linux?) In-Reply-To: <44F9BCF2.9010803-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901180537.95422.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157209049.3880.42.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <200609021119.40414.softquake@gmail.com> <7B7AEA0F-AFD1-4F95-A44D-733A12C6A652@enomaly.com> <44F9BCF2.9010803@telly.org> Message-ID: <44F9D645.6060203@pppoe.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > In the end the lessons of the book are summarized well by two famous > British phrases: > "Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely." -- Lord > Acton > "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" -- Roger Daltry > Great choice of quotations and sources, Evan :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 12:44:52 2006 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 12:44:52 Subject: Inquiry about FREE mailing lists In-Reply-To: <44F86179.14102.1F99DF-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <44F86179.14102.1F99DF@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20060902124452.5d371b6e@mail.look.ca> At 04:36 PM 2006/09/01 -0400, Paul King wrote: >Hello >I just wanted to run this past some people. I am planning to >maintain a mailing list for a group of people, and I was wondering >if there are any trustworthy providers of this service. (snip) >www.coolist.com > I created a list and added some "test users" (my alternate email > addresses), but the users could not verify themselves. The link to > verify the subscription was to a server called "28.nu". The "nu" > country code belongs to a Pacific Island called Niue, about 2000 km > northeast of Welland, New Zealand. I think it is a dead server, and > no one is taking care of it. Emails to tech support bounced. Nice > interface, though. Configurable in all the important ways. I was in a Scarborough-based group which tried Coollist a few years ago. Their Web site mentioned that the way that they stay in business is by selling subscribers' names, e-mail addresses and personal statistics to bulk e-mailers, the people who send out "spam". They had some technical problems, such as sending out an e-mail message up to 5 (five !) times, each time with a different date/timestamp. This intensified a "flame war". Actually, I'd really strongly advise that no one consider them unless necessary. Jim McIntosh -------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 20:30:26 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 16:30:26 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <200609021119.40414.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901180537.95422.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157209049.3880.42.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <200609021119.40414.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <44F9E9E2.9010905@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On Saturday 02 September 2006 10:57, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: >> On Fri, 2006-09-01 at 14:05 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >>> I have not read Animal Farm I'm afraid, but I do know >> Animal Farm is a satirical allegory of Soviet totalitarianism. Major >> events in the book are based on ones from the Soviet Union during the >> Stalin era. (From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_farm ...sorry I >> don't have Encarta) > > Well, wikipedia is certainly either not a fully trustfull source of > information. > > Was 1984 based on Soviet Union? I doubt that. I doubt also that the Animal > Farm was. Animal farm was about communism. "All men are created equal, but some are more equal than others.". came from that book. 1984 was more about government intrusion into our lives. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 21:25:10 2006 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 17:25:10 -0400 Subject: Inquiry about FREE mailing lists In-Reply-To: <1f13df280609011725x21de68d3neb9063cc3581c08-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <44F86179.14102.1F99DF@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <44F9BE76.27229.572D7BE@sciguy.vex.net> Again, while it has its uses, I had in mind a majordomo-style list server. It appears as if I have found freelists.org useful in that area, and they seemed to have accepted me. I have tested their operations, and it looks good. What I also wanted was the ability for people to send commands to the server to get things like FAQ files, info files, and the like. People can request digests, I can ban users and spammers from the list, and so on... Paul On 1 Sep 2006 at 20:25, Giles Orr wrote: > On 9/1/06, Paul King wrote: > > I just wanted to run this past some people. I am planning to > > maintain a mailing list for a group of people, and I was wondering > > if there are any trustworthy providers of this service. > > I'm going to second the suggestion of yahoo groups, although I haven't > adminned one. I'm a member of > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altkeyboards/ , but I _never_ go to the > website because I've always treated it as a mailing list. I've been > on and off that list for several years, and they've been a yahoo group > for about six years - I've been quite happy with the setup from a user > point of view. I receive my messages from them exactly as I do from > GTALUG. People have the option of getting mails or visiting the site > (you may want them to receive emails, but options are generally good). > It appears yahoo groups can have closed membership. > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 22:01:40 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 17:01:40 -0500 Subject: [OT] audio connection help In-Reply-To: <20060518152519.GG23932-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605172155x40e4e37du2742f65a588ba575@mail.gmail.com> <20060518152519.GG23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990609021501v32698253l83604c11e93402a7@mail.gmail.com> On 5/18/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 11:55:29PM -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > > I'm hoping to stumble into a couple of people who know about audio. > > > > I'm not sure how to search for answers, since these are all shortforms > > for audio terms.. and are a quite annoying to search for / research. > > > > > > I have a bit of a mystery on my hands with my motherboard (ASUS K8N) > > audio connections vs my case (Antec Sonata) front-case connections. > > > > The motherboard has a block of 9 pins: > > > > 1 2 3 x 4 > > 5 6 7 8 9 > > > > 1 - agnd > > 2 +5VA > > 3 BLINE_OUT_R > > 4 BLINE_OUT_L > > 5 MIC2 > > 6 MICPWR > > 7 Line out_R > > 8 NC > > 9 Line out_L > > x = not labelled/used. > > > > Most of that makes sense. The case, however, has a bunch of single > > lines which are labelled thusly: > > > > FPOUT-R > > FPOUT-L > > MIC > > RET-R > > RET-L > > MIC BIAS > > MIC GND > > > > I don't know how these match up. On top of that, there are seven > > lines for 9 items on the motherboard. 8 if I think that NC means "no > > connection". > > Well NC means no connection, and you don't need to power anything so the > +5VA can be left out. Now you have 7 pins to use on each end. > > Line Out R/L goes to FPOUT R/L. > BLINE OUT R/L goes to RET R/L > agnd goes to MIC GND. > MIC2 goes to MIC (Apparently MIC1 is on the back and MIC2 on the front > panel. I guess it supports two different MIC inputs in the sound chip). > MICPWR goes to MIC BIAS (bias is for powering some part of certain > microphone types hence why power would go there). > > That should take care of all 7 pins. > > When you plug something into the headphone jack on the front, it should > automatically mute the rear outputs (which is why the return lines are > there). Pretty handy. Just a quick thanks to you both. I finally had some time to really play around with this until I could come up with the solution. It was annoying to get the connections right, and even more annoying to have had to redo things when they weren't working. I've documented it for future generations. Lennart - As it turns out, the rear speakers do not mute when I use headphones in the front. http://jrandomhacker.info/Antec_Sonata_and_Asus_K8N_audio_connectors -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 23:17:14 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 19:17:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DJB in Toronto Message-ID: The famous Dan Bernstein is going to be in Toronto. He is going to be giving a couple of short courses (or something like that) At the Fields Institute for Research in Mathematical Science. THEMATIC PROGRAM IN CRYPTOGRAPHY, GRADUATE COURSES: Oct. 23-26 & Nov. 6-16, High-speed cryptography Instructor: D. J. Bernstein (University of Illinois at Chicago) I don't suggest that many of us TLUGgers would understand these talks. They are intended for graduate students and researchers in math. But DJB is famous/infamous for a number of other things. Like qmail, djbdns, fighting the US governement to export crypto, etc. I think that we ought to invite him to give a talk at TLUG while he is here. Who co-ordinates speakers? Does this look feasible? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 3 00:24:29 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 20:24:29 -0400 Subject: Audio DVD? Message-ID: <200609022024.30020.mervc@eol.ca> Audio-newbie here, I have just started doing what my 8 yr old granddaughter can do, make audio CD's. No problem with my LP.'s. I have some collections on tape which will not fit on a CD, I haven't found any information yet whether this is feasable using a DVD disk. If I use a DVD then I assume I could only use a DVD player for playback. K3b doesn't give this as a possibility, perhaps the command line? Regards -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 3 00:33:56 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 20:33:56 -0400 Subject: Audio DVD? In-Reply-To: <200609022024.30020.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200609022024.30020.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <44FA22F4.6070505@rogers.com> Merv Curley wrote: > Audio-newbie here, > > I have just started doing what my 8 yr old granddaughter can do, make audio > CD's. No problem with my LP.'s. > > I have some collections on tape which will not fit on a CD, I haven't found > any information yet whether this is feasable using a DVD disk. If I use a > DVD then I assume I could only use a DVD player for playback. > > K3b doesn't give this as a possibility, perhaps the command line? If your CD player supports MP3s, you could save some space that way. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 3 01:46:11 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 21:46:11 -0400 Subject: Backing up to DVDs Message-ID: <44FA33E3.5060801@telly.org> Hey all, Right now I'm doing my backups manually using K3B, because it's a simple way to create mountable DVD filesystems to which to copy files. I'd like to move to something that helps manage the task more automatically (and do things like incrementals and maximize capacity without breaking files across volumes), but it looks like available tools (such as Amanda) are meant to work with tape drives and raw devices. I'd like to use a backup system that will back files up to one or more DVD-Rs, as filesystems rather than 4.7GB tarballs; think `cpio -p` rather than `cpio -o`, if you know what I mean. The nicest thing about this is that no recovery or extraction software is necessary, only (if used) decompression. Speaking of compression; I'd love to be able to tell the system to bzip certain file types (ie. *.txt, *.log, *.doc, etc.) but not to even try to do files that are already compressed (ie, multimedia). Also, I'd love the system to make a log of what it's doing of the form: Are there articles anywhere about how to do this? Existing packages? Config changes to Amanda? Maybe this can all be done using shell or perl scripts and existing command line utilities, I'm just not sure if something like this has already been done. Certainly someone else has had to deal with this kind of thing before.... Does anyone here have any experience with "dar/kdar", "bacula" or "taper"? Would any of them fit the task? Thanks for all suggestions. I've waited too long to do this. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 2 22:32:18 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (paul sutton) Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 22:32:18 +0000 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <44F9E9E2.9010905-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901180537.95422.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157209049.3880.42.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <200609021119.40414.softquake@gmail.com> <44F9E9E2.9010905@rogers.com> Message-ID: <44FA0672.9090407@zleap.net> the nice thing about wikipedia is that you can edit the articles, esp if anything is incorrect. which can happen, I am sure the original authors of that entry won't mind any corrections, paul James Knott wrote: >Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > >>On Saturday 02 September 2006 10:57, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: >> >> >>>On Fri, 2006-09-01 at 14:05 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >>> >>> >>>>I have not read Animal Farm I'm afraid, but I do know >>>> >>>> >>>Animal Farm is a satirical allegory of Soviet totalitarianism. Major >>>events in the book are based on ones from the Soviet Union during the >>>Stalin era. (From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_farm ...sorry I >>>don't have Encarta) >>> >>> >>Well, wikipedia is certainly either not a fully trustfull source of >>information. >> >>Was 1984 based on Soviet Union? I doubt that. I doubt also that the Animal >>Farm was. >> >> > >Animal farm was about communism. "All men are created equal, but some >are more equal than others.". came from that book. 1984 was more about >government intrusion into our lives. > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 3 04:41:19 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 00:41:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <20060901221414.GA28632-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901221414.GA28632@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: | From: William Park | Interesting... I'm thinking about getting rid of all my P2/P3's (all 4 | of them) and replace them with a single P4 system. I've never bought a P4 (except for junky & cheap Celeron D systems). I would think that it would be silly to do so know. Core 2 is best right now, but not cheapest. Athlon is good, and cheap. So why buy a P4 which isn't good and can hardly be significantly cheaper than Athlon? Back-of-envelope calculation: P4 might take 40 more watts than an Athlon. If you leave your machine on all the time (which I do, and I would guess you do) that amounts 40W * 24h/d * 365d/y = 350kwh / y or about $20 extra per year in power charges. Bonus: the latest Athlons (those that use DDR2) and all Cores (except T2300e) have hardware assistance for virtualization. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 3 05:38:44 2006 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 01:38:44 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <20060901201309.7098.qmail-XaYfPTZAAdSA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901201309.7098.qmail@web61323.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 9/1/06, E K wrote: > I have installed 64 bit Ubuntu (You can download it at > http://gulus.usherbrooke.ca/pub/distro/ubuntu/iso/6.06/ubuntu-6.06.1-alternate-amd64.iso) > on Gateway GT4010 (AMD Athlon 64 3500 2.2GHz > processor, 1GB, nVidia GeForce 6100 onboard graphics) > without a hitch. > I'm sure Ubuntu is good if you are sticking with pure 64Bit software but can apt-get handle multi-arch libs yet? If you need some 32bit apps like a flash plugin for your browser or mplayer's 32bit codecs, Fedora is much more mature 64Bit system. -- Mark Lane, CET -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 3 11:30:05 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 07:30:05 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901221414.GA28632@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <44FABCBD.2020305@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: William Park > > | Interesting... I'm thinking about getting rid of all my P2/P3's (all 4 > | of them) and replace them with a single P4 system. > > I've never bought a P4 (except for junky & cheap Celeron D systems). > I would think that it would be silly to do so know. > > Core 2 is best right now, but not cheapest. > > Athlon is good, and cheap. > > So why buy a P4 which isn't good and can hardly be significantly > cheaper than Athlon? That would depend on whether you're buying new or not. There are plenty of name brand "refurb" P4 systems available for about $200, which are sufficiently powerful for many users. > > Back-of-envelope calculation: P4 might take 40 more watts than an > Athlon. If you leave your machine on all the time (which I do, and I > would guess you do) that amounts > 40W * 24h/d * 365d/y = 350kwh / y > or about $20 extra per year in power charges. > > Bonus: the latest Athlons (those that use DDR2) and all Cores (except > T2300e) have hardware assistance for virtualization. I've got an Athlon 64 3200+, which I bought in June. I assume it would have that too. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 3 16:04:09 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 12:04:09 -0400 Subject: Audio DVD? In-Reply-To: <44FA22F4.6070505-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200609022024.30020.mervc@eol.ca> <44FA22F4.6070505@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200609031204.09787.mervc@eol.ca> On Saturday 02 September 2006 20:33, James Knott wrote: > > If your CD player supports MP3s, you could save some space that way. > -- Well they are encoded to .ogg. I am talking about 180 min's compared to 80 on a CD. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 3 16:18:58 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 12:18:58 -0400 Subject: Audio DVD? In-Reply-To: <44FA22F4.6070505-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200609022024.30020.mervc@eol.ca> <44FA22F4.6070505@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200609031218.58785.mervc@eol.ca> On Saturday 02 September 2006 20:33, James Knott wrote: > > If your CD player supports MP3s, you could save some space that way. > -- It just dawned on me what you were saying. No the CD players I might use do not support mp3, ogg etc. One of course would be the car CD player. Maybe I should try making one with a DVD blank and see if it is ok, then try and find a way to put more music files on it. Sorry I missed your point at first. Merv -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 3 17:01:15 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 13:01:15 -0400 Subject: DJB in Toronto In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44FB0A5B.1070508@pppoe.ca> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >The famous Dan Bernstein is going to be in Toronto. He is going to be >giving a couple of short courses (or something like that) At the >Fields Institute for Research in Mathematical Science. > >THEMATIC PROGRAM IN CRYPTOGRAPHY, GRADUATE COURSES: >Oct. 23-26 & Nov. 6-16, High-speed cryptography > Instructor: D. J. Bernstein (University of Illinois at Chicago) > >I don't suggest that many of us TLUGgers would understand these talks. >They are intended for graduate students and researchers in math. > >But DJB is famous/infamous for a number of other things. Like qmail, >djbdns, fighting the US governement to export crypto, etc. > >I think that we ought to invite him to give a talk at TLUG while he is >here. > >Who co-ordinates speakers? Does this look feasible? > > > I believe Robert Brockway does. It'll be great if we can get him to give a talk. Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 3 17:20:06 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 13:20:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <44FABCBD.2020305-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901221414.GA28632@wp.magstar.net> <44FABCBD.2020305@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > So why buy a P4 which isn't good and can hardly be significantly | > cheaper than Athlon? | | That would depend on whether you're buying new or not. There are plenty | of name brand "refurb" P4 systems available for about $200, which are | sufficiently powerful for many users. Perhaps. I've never bought used systems that were not fairly old. I've not found the middle ground too appealing. I recently bought a few PIIIs (cheap). I've also bought refurb-but-hardly-used stuff. Another problem: early P4 systems used RDRAM (Rambus). That is expensive memory and probably hard to get as well. Since the first upgrade you might want to do is to add memory, this is Very Bad. | > Bonus: the latest Athlons (those that use DDR2) and all Cores (except | > T2300e) have hardware assistance for virtualization. | | I've got an Athlon 64 3200+, which I bought in June. I assume it would | have that too. Probably not. Does it use the AM2 socket? AM2 is the first AMD support for DDR2. Because the memory controller is in the CPU, the CPU determines the kind of memory that can be supported (unlike the Intel world). The AM2 socket CPUs are quite recent. They are the first AMD cpus with hardware assist for virtualization. AMD seemed to sneak this feature in with little fanfare. I hadn't noticed until Lennart pointed this out. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 3 17:29:31 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 13:29:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <1157209049.3880.42.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1157209049.3880.42.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <20060903172931.36904.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > On Fri, 2006-09-01 at 14:05 -0400, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > I have not read Animal Farm I'm afraid, but I do > know > > Animal Farm is a satirical allegory of Soviet > totalitarianism. Major > events in the book are based on ones from the Soviet > Union during the > Stalin era. (From: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_farm ...sorry I > don't have Encarta) > > > my industry history well enough to know that > Microsoft > > is not the first firm in our industry to be a less > > than honourable player. > > > > Go back to the 1960's and the "jokes" were about > IBM > > and the seven dwarfs (UNIVAC, Burroughs, > Scientific > > Data Systems, Control Data Corporation, General > > Electric, RCA and Honeywell). Namely, IBM totally > > DOMINATED the computer industry with only a > handful of > > small players on the side, in a way that is in > many > > ways comparable to the current situation with > > Microsoft. IBM achieved its position of power > through > > some morally/legally questionable tactics (and > spent > > time in court over such tactics). Now, IBM has > been > > brought into line (due to Microsoft, sigh, groan) > and > > is now a much more respected, if still very much a > > hardball player (as SCO is learning the hard way) > in > > the industry. > > Companies such as you mentioned exist due to the > fact > that most of the population is asleep or spend most > of > their time drinking beer. One day (when the wake up) > the find > a monopolistic company dominating their industry and > they > themselves are out of work. Another reason is that > most people > are just too 'chicken' or lazy to start their own > business and > follow through on the work to make it successful. > Add to the > mix corrupt lawyers, politicians and you end up with > with > unhappy campers demonstrating/complaining about some > sad cause. > (see: softwood lumber) While legally/morally questionable tactics have a real (major?) role to play in the domination of the industry by one player, there are other factors. Another "joke" from times gone by was "Nobody ever gets fired for choosing IBM". Point was, if an IT professional picked a solution from say Burroughs over IBM, and things went bad, the chances of getting fired were much higher than picking an IBM solution. Point was that IBM was seen for a lot of years as the "safe" choice. If something went wrong people could say to technology illiterate management, well, if IBM can not make this happen, then nobody can. Unfortunately, Microsoft is now in the "Nobody ever gets fired for" position. This even though in 99%+ of situations the Microsoft solution will cost more, and not be as reliable. > > This situation did not stop at least one of my > > instructors in college during the 1980s from > > worshipping the ground IBM walked on. The fact > that I > > thought it obvious to all that IBM was at the time > > something of a bully who needed to be taken down a > > I though Micro$oft was fine till they started > focusing on world > domination and quality control went out the > window(tm). ;) I have always been interested in the most cost effective solution, and for a time that was Microsoft. Now that there are very credible free alternatives to almost all Microsoft products (Linux and the *BSDs) why bother, there are better/cheaper alternatives. > > notch wasn't obvious to all. > > > > I do admit to liking some Microsoft > keyboards/mice, > > but overall I see Microsoft in exactly the same > light > > as I saw IBM in the mid-1980s a bully who needs to > be > > taken down a notch (or two). I do hope Microsoft > > I have among other things a 10+ year old no name > great > quality keyboard and circa 1996 IBM and Compaq mice > ;) > I've never had a reason to consider buying new > ones... Well, I have an odd fondness for the "Natural" keyboards, ugly as @#$% but very comfortable to type on. I wouldn't want to show off the keyboard, but for a desktop machine in my den, definitely. As for the Microsoft mice, I have been able to get some of the wireless mice for $9.99 at some of the local clearance shops, and at that price why not go wireless. They are decent enough mice, and being cord free is nice when you have a cluttered desk (like mine :-) ). > > coming down does not happen because a new > comparable > > nasty shows up and that Microsoft does evolve into > > something respectable > > That says a lot about the hypocrisy in North > America. > Basically the message is: Rob a bank, If you don't > end up > in jail use the money to start a legitimate business > and > then moralize the population. Afterward move into > respectable > venues such as charity and moralize the population. > Sounds reasonable... > RickT You can punish individuals for breaking the law, and the thought of Bill Gates being REQUIRED to wear an orange jumpsuit has a certain appeal. As for corporations, the best you can hope to do is force them to reform, this can be done by breaking them up and/or other legal actions, such as forced sale of assets. Now, I don't know of any ideal solution for Microsoft, but here are some ideas: - Make the source code to all Microsoft products open source under a BSD or GPL licence. - Require Microsoft OSs become a seperate company from the other parts. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 3 22:29:43 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 18:29:43 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <20060903172931.36904.qmail-2K+iNxKRQwOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060903172931.36904.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1157322583.4921.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> On Sun, 2006-09-03 at 13:29 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > While legally/morally questionable tactics have a real > (major?) role to play in the domination of the > industry by one player, there are other factors. > Another "joke" from times gone by was "Nobody ever > gets fired for choosing IBM". Point was, if an IT > professional picked a solution from say Burroughs over > IBM, and things went bad, the chances of getting fired > were much higher than picking an IBM solution. I just don't want to be the poor SOB responsible for installing, maintaining, patching, de-virus, de-spyware... > You can punish individuals for breaking the law, and > the thought of Bill Gates being REQUIRED to wear an > orange jumpsuit has a certain appeal. As for > corporations, the best you can hope to do is force > them to reform, this can be done by breaking them up > and/or other legal actions, such as forced sale of > assets. Now, I don't know of any ideal solution for > Microsoft, but here are some ideas: > > - Make the source code to all Microsoft products open > source under a BSD or GPL licence. > - Require Microsoft OSs become a seperate company from > the other parts. > I don't believe Microsoft will ever be forced by Government to change since to many they are a 'rags to riches' (sort of) story. Government intervention will be seen as excessive state control which many will take offense to. The best we can hope for is a co-ordinated effort to match them in every market to take away their 'oxygen' as their managers refer to it and drive margins down to the point they are unable to be profitable. Quite frankly its good to have a large window$ installed base. It will be a huge segment needing an upgrade in the future. RickT -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca "This really isn't that hard. If you're going to kill someone there isn't much reason to get all worked up about it and angry -- you just pull the trigger. Angry discussions before hand are a waste of time. We need to smile at Novell while we pull the trigger." -Former Microsoft VP James Allchin in a 09-9-91 e-mail (as revealed in Caldera v. Microsoft) http://www.msboycott.com/quotes/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 3 23:42:02 2006 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 19:42:02 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <1157322583.4921.13.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <20060903172931.36904.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157322583.4921.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <44FB684A.6020907@execulink.com> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > On Sun, 2006-09-03 at 13:29 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > > >>While legally/morally questionable tactics have a real >>(major?) role to play in the domination of the >>industry by one player, there are other factors. >>Another "joke" from times gone by was "Nobody ever >>gets fired for choosing IBM". Point was, if an IT >>professional picked a solution from say Burroughs over >>IBM, and things went bad, the chances of getting fired >>were much higher than picking an IBM solution. > > > I just don't want to be the poor SOB responsible for installing, > maintaining, patching, de-virus, de-spyware... > > >>You can punish individuals for breaking the law, and >>the thought of Bill Gates being REQUIRED to wear an >>orange jumpsuit has a certain appeal. As for >>corporations, the best you can hope to do is force >>them to reform, this can be done by breaking them up >>and/or other legal actions, such as forced sale of >>assets. Now, I don't know of any ideal solution for >>Microsoft, but here are some ideas: >> >>- Make the source code to all Microsoft products open >>source under a BSD or GPL licence. >>- Require Microsoft OSs become a seperate company from >>the other parts. >> > > I don't believe Microsoft will ever be forced by Government to > change since to many they are a 'rags to riches' (sort of) story. > Government intervention will be seen as excessive state control which > many will take offense to. The best we can hope for is a co-ordinated > effort to match them in every market to take away their 'oxygen' as > their managers refer to it and drive margins down to the point they are > unable to be profitable. Quite frankly its good to have a large window$ > installed base. It will be a huge segment needing an upgrade in the > future. > RickT Why must y'all continuously slam the world's greatest philanthropist in his finest hour? greg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 3 23:46:09 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 19:46:09 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <44FB684A.6020907-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060903172931.36904.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157322583.4921.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB684A.6020907@execulink.com> Message-ID: <44FB6941.60007@rogers.com> Gregory D Hough wrote: > Rick Tomaschuk wrote: >> On Sun, 2006-09-03 at 13:29 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> >>> While legally/morally questionable tactics have a real >>> (major?) role to play in the domination of the >>> industry by one player, there are other factors. >>> Another "joke" from times gone by was "Nobody ever >>> gets fired for choosing IBM". Point was, if an IT >>> professional picked a solution from say Burroughs over >>> IBM, and things went bad, the chances of getting fired >>> were much higher than picking an IBM solution. >> >> >> I just don't want to be the poor SOB responsible for installing, >> maintaining, patching, de-virus, de-spyware... >> >> >>> You can punish individuals for breaking the law, and >>> the thought of Bill Gates being REQUIRED to wear an >>> orange jumpsuit has a certain appeal. As for >>> corporations, the best you can hope to do is force >>> them to reform, this can be done by breaking them up >>> and/or other legal actions, such as forced sale of >>> assets. Now, I don't know of any ideal solution for >>> Microsoft, but here are some ideas: >>> - Make the source code to all Microsoft products open >>> source under a BSD or GPL licence. >>> - Require Microsoft OSs become a seperate company from >>> the other parts. >>> >> >> I don't believe Microsoft will ever be forced by Government to change >> since to many they are a 'rags to riches' (sort of) story. >> Government intervention will be seen as excessive state control which >> many will take offense to. The best we can hope for is a co-ordinated >> effort to match them in every market to take away their 'oxygen' as >> their managers refer to it and drive margins down to the point they are >> unable to be profitable. Quite frankly its good to have a large window$ >> installed base. It will be a huge segment needing an upgrade in the >> future. >> RickT > Why must y'all continuously slam the world's greatest philanthropist in > his finest hour? Perhaps because of the often illegal means he used to obtain that his wealth. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 3 23:51:01 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 19:51:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <1157322583.4921.13.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1157322583.4921.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <20060903235101.3579.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > On Sun, 2006-09-03 at 13:29 -0400, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > While legally/morally questionable tactics have a > real > > (major?) role to play in the domination of the > > industry by one player, there are other factors. > > Another "joke" from times gone by was "Nobody ever > > gets fired for choosing IBM". Point was, if an IT > > professional picked a solution from say Burroughs > over > > IBM, and things went bad, the chances of getting > fired > > were much higher than picking an IBM solution. > > I just don't want to be the poor SOB responsible for > installing, > maintaining, patching, de-virus, de-spyware... True, but supporting Microsoft is an honest, if nasty way to make a living. I don't have kind words for people who suggest large scale Microsoft solutions on the other hand... Wonder if MS-Windows support person would interest the likes of Mike Rowe, who hosts a show "Dirty Jobs" on the Discovery channel? "Dirty Jobs" looks at honest, but nasty jobs, like industrial grease trap cleaner, Florida alligator wrangler, and sewer pipe inspector. I mean dealing with Microsoft OSs is in some ways nastier than any of those jobs. > > You can punish individuals for breaking the law, > and > > the thought of Bill Gates being REQUIRED to wear > an > > orange jumpsuit has a certain appeal. As for > > corporations, the best you can hope to do is force > > them to reform, this can be done by breaking them > up > > and/or other legal actions, such as forced sale > of > > assets. Now, I don't know of any ideal solution > for > > Microsoft, but here are some ideas: > > > > - Make the source code to all Microsoft products > open > > source under a BSD or GPL licence. > > - Require Microsoft OSs become a seperate company > from > > the other parts. > > > I don't believe Microsoft will ever be forced by > Government to > change since to many they are a 'rags to riches' > (sort of) story. > Government intervention will be seen as excessive > state control which > many will take offense to. The best we can hope for > is a co-ordinated > effort to match them in every market to take away > their 'oxygen' as > their managers refer to it and drive margins down to > the point they are > unable to be profitable. Quite frankly its good to > have a large window$ > installed base. It will be a huge segment needing an > upgrade in the > future. > RickT Well, never say never when it comes to politics. I don't think anything will happen as long the Republicans control the US House, US Senate and US Presidency, but hopefully that will change with this fall's elections (part of a Canadian disease at the moment, not being keen on Republicans :-) , never mind the fact that some US Democrat administrations have been about as bad for Canada as the Republicans...). Also, quick route for Microsoft to get hammered by the government would be to have some sort of MASSIVE @#$% up in which Microsoft played a real part (say a virus exploiting a security hole that Microsoft hand known about, but not fixed for months effectively bringing down the Internet for a few days...). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 3 23:51:15 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 19:51:15 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <44FB6941.60007-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060903172931.36904.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157322583.4921.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB684A.6020907@execulink.com> <44FB6941.60007@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 3-Sep-06, at 7:46 PM, James Knott wrote: > Gregory D Hough wrote: >> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: >>> On Sun, 2006-09-03 at 13:29 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >>> >>> >>>> While legally/morally questionable tactics have a real >>>> (major?) role to play in the domination of the >>>> industry by one player, there are other factors. >>>> Another "joke" from times gone by was "Nobody ever >>>> gets fired for choosing IBM". Point was, if an IT >>>> professional picked a solution from say Burroughs over >>>> IBM, and things went bad, the chances of getting fired >>>> were much higher than picking an IBM solution. >>> >>> >>> I just don't want to be the poor SOB responsible for installing, >>> maintaining, patching, de-virus, de-spyware... >>> >>> >>>> You can punish individuals for breaking the law, and >>>> the thought of Bill Gates being REQUIRED to wear an >>>> orange jumpsuit has a certain appeal. As for >>>> corporations, the best you can hope to do is force >>>> them to reform, this can be done by breaking them up >>>> and/or other legal actions, such as forced sale of >>>> assets. Now, I don't know of any ideal solution for >>>> Microsoft, but here are some ideas: >>>> - Make the source code to all Microsoft products open >>>> source under a BSD or GPL licence. >>>> - Require Microsoft OSs become a seperate company from >>>> the other parts. >>>> >>> >>> I don't believe Microsoft will ever be forced by Government to >>> change >>> since to many they are a 'rags to riches' (sort of) story. >>> Government intervention will be seen as excessive state control >>> which >>> many will take offense to. The best we can hope for is a co- >>> ordinated >>> effort to match them in every market to take away their 'oxygen' as >>> their managers refer to it and drive margins down to the point >>> they are >>> unable to be profitable. Quite frankly its good to have a large >>> window$ >>> installed base. It will be a huge segment needing an upgrade in the >>> future. >>> RickT >> Why must y'all continuously slam the world's greatest >> philanthropist in >> his finest hour? > > Perhaps because of the often illegal means he used to obtain that his > wealth. That seems to be the norm, consider much of the Canadian, and US wealth was created out of the days when alcohol was illegal. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 3 23:57:55 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 19:57:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <20060903235101.3579.qmail-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060903235101.3579.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Sep 2006, Colin McGregor wrote: ... >> I just don't want to be the poor SOB responsible for >> installing, >> maintaining, patching, de-virus, de-spyware... > > True, but supporting Microsoft is an honest, if nasty > way to make a living. I don't have kind words for > people who suggest large scale Microsoft solutions on > the other hand... > > Wonder if MS-Windows support person would interest the > likes of Mike Rowe, who hosts a show "Dirty Jobs" on > the Discovery channel? "Dirty Jobs" looks at honest, > but nasty jobs, like industrial grease trap cleaner, > Florida alligator wrangler, and sewer pipe inspector. > I mean dealing with Microsoft OSs is in some ways > nastier than any of those jobs. That's not Mike Rowe of MikeRoweSoft.com fame, is it? -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 4 00:51:59 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 19:51:59 -0500 Subject: fsck and raidtools Message-ID: <1e55af990609031751u28a1f067yac311ee57e47f2f4@mail.gmail.com> fsck seems to go mental when I try to use it on an md device. Is this normal? # fsck /dev/md0 fsck 1.39 (29-May-2006) e2fsck 1.39 (29-May-2006) The filesystem size (according to the superblock) is 17101184 blocks The physical size of the device is 17101168 blocks Either the superblock or the partition table is likely to be corrupt! Abort? Going ahead with the repairs seems to do nothing. This error will always reappear. What's going on? How can I check an md device if fsck always acts like this? It sounds reasonable that I would have to check the (in this case) two source drives individually. Is that right? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 4 01:50:27 2006 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 21:50:27 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: References: <20060903172931.36904.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157322583.4921.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB684A.6020907@execulink.com> <44FB6941.60007@rogers.com> Message-ID: <44FB8663.5010306@execulink.com> Dave Cramer wrote: > > On 3-Sep-06, at 7:46 PM, James Knott wrote: > >> Gregory D Hough wrote: >> >>> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: >>> >>>> On Sun, 2006-09-03 at 13:29 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> While legally/morally questionable tactics have a real >>>>> (major?) role to play in the domination of the >>>>> industry by one player, there are other factors. >>>>> Another "joke" from times gone by was "Nobody ever >>>>> gets fired for choosing IBM". Point was, if an IT >>>>> professional picked a solution from say Burroughs over >>>>> IBM, and things went bad, the chances of getting fired >>>>> were much higher than picking an IBM solution. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I just don't want to be the poor SOB responsible for installing, >>>> maintaining, patching, de-virus, de-spyware... >>>> >>>> >>>>> You can punish individuals for breaking the law, and >>>>> the thought of Bill Gates being REQUIRED to wear an >>>>> orange jumpsuit has a certain appeal. As for >>>>> corporations, the best you can hope to do is force >>>>> them to reform, this can be done by breaking them up >>>>> and/or other legal actions, such as forced sale of >>>>> assets. Now, I don't know of any ideal solution for >>>>> Microsoft, but here are some ideas: >>>>> - Make the source code to all Microsoft products open >>>>> source under a BSD or GPL licence. >>>>> - Require Microsoft OSs become a seperate company from >>>>> the other parts. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I don't believe Microsoft will ever be forced by Government to change >>>> since to many they are a 'rags to riches' (sort of) story. >>>> Government intervention will be seen as excessive state control which >>>> many will take offense to. The best we can hope for is a co- ordinated >>>> effort to match them in every market to take away their 'oxygen' as >>>> their managers refer to it and drive margins down to the point they >>>> are >>>> unable to be profitable. Quite frankly its good to have a large >>>> window$ >>>> installed base. It will be a huge segment needing an upgrade in the >>>> future. >>>> RickT >>> >>> Why must y'all continuously slam the world's greatest philanthropist in >>> his finest hour? >> >> >> Perhaps because of the often illegal means he used to obtain that his >> wealth. > > That seems to be the norm, consider much of the Canadian, and US wealth > was created out of the days when alcohol was illegal. Those are very simplistic arguments which presume that illegal activities often earn greater profits. But what is so illegal about the worlds greatest philanthropist medicating the third world with experimental drugs from profits earned by the distribution of diseased software? My friends, it is a viscous circle. Nobody is perfect but God has seen to it that each one of us is perfectly suited for something good. We all have an opportunity to redeem ourselves from the wrongs we have perpetrated against one another. It just so happens that the world's greatest philanthropist has a much bigger Bill to pay. I just think it is more appropriate on a Linux list to discuss the goodness of our chosen OS than to be forever putting down the "other guy." It makes us all look bad in the eyes of potential converts. Hasn't anyone noticed all the misguided UNSUBSCRIBERS lately? greg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 4 01:35:18 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 21:35:18 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <20060903235101.3579.qmail-N/0UzftCW16B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1157322583.4921.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <20060903235101.3579.qmail@web88211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 9/3/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > Well, never say never when it comes to politics. I > don't think anything will happen as long the > Republicans control the US House, US Senate and US > Presidency, but hopefully that will change with this > fall's elections (part of a Canadian disease at the > moment, not being keen on Republicans :-) , never mind > the fact that some US Democrat administrations have > been about as bad for Canada as the Republicans...). Part of the Canadian "disease" is that they tend to be insufficiently imaginative to grasp how it could have been that *any* American could have voted Republican, forget about giving them control of so many portions of branches of the government. It's a bit entertaining, if dismaying, to hear Canadians imagining themselves to be on the "open-minded" moral high ground when their minds are evidently not nearly open enough to perceive how ordinary folk could have chosen to vote for the GOP... > Also, quick route for Microsoft to get hammered by the > government would be to have some sort of MASSIVE @#$% > up in which Microsoft played a real part (say a virus > exploiting a security hole that Microsoft hand known > about, but not fixed for months effectively bringing > down the Internet for a few days...). The thing is, too many portions of Internet infrastructure don't run WIndows for that to realistically happen. Cisco legitimately makes a lot of noise; they sell the routers widely used by practically everyone, and those routers *don't* run W*nd*ws. It would be believable to hear that all W*nd*ws systems connected to the Internet were taken down; that wouldn't take down the Internet. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 4 01:44:33 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 21:44:33 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <44FB8663.5010306-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060903172931.36904.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157322583.4921.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB684A.6020907@execulink.com> <44FB6941.60007@rogers.com> <44FB8663.5010306@execulink.com> Message-ID: On 9/3/06, Gregory D Hough wrote: > Dave Cramer wrote: > > > > On 3-Sep-06, at 7:46 PM, James Knott wrote: > > > >> Gregory D Hough wrote: > >> > >>> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > >>> > >>>> On Sun, 2006-09-03 at 13:29 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> While legally/morally questionable tactics have a real > >>>>> (major?) role to play in the domination of the > >>>>> industry by one player, there are other factors. > >>>>> Another "joke" from times gone by was "Nobody ever > >>>>> gets fired for choosing IBM". Point was, if an IT > >>>>> professional picked a solution from say Burroughs over > >>>>> IBM, and things went bad, the chances of getting fired > >>>>> were much higher than picking an IBM solution. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I just don't want to be the poor SOB responsible for installing, > >>>> maintaining, patching, de-virus, de-spyware... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> You can punish individuals for breaking the law, and > >>>>> the thought of Bill Gates being REQUIRED to wear an > >>>>> orange jumpsuit has a certain appeal. As for > >>>>> corporations, the best you can hope to do is force > >>>>> them to reform, this can be done by breaking them up > >>>>> and/or other legal actions, such as forced sale of > >>>>> assets. Now, I don't know of any ideal solution for > >>>>> Microsoft, but here are some ideas: > >>>>> - Make the source code to all Microsoft products open > >>>>> source under a BSD or GPL licence. > >>>>> - Require Microsoft OSs become a seperate company from > >>>>> the other parts. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> I don't believe Microsoft will ever be forced by Government to change > >>>> since to many they are a 'rags to riches' (sort of) story. > >>>> Government intervention will be seen as excessive state control which > >>>> many will take offense to. The best we can hope for is a co- ordinated > >>>> effort to match them in every market to take away their 'oxygen' as > >>>> their managers refer to it and drive margins down to the point they > >>>> are > >>>> unable to be profitable. Quite frankly its good to have a large > >>>> window$ > >>>> installed base. It will be a huge segment needing an upgrade in the > >>>> future. > >>>> RickT > >>> > >>> Why must y'all continuously slam the world's greatest philanthropist in > >>> his finest hour? > >> > >> > >> Perhaps because of the often illegal means he used to obtain that his > >> wealth. > > > > That seems to be the norm, consider much of the Canadian, and US wealth > > was created out of the days when alcohol was illegal. > > Those are very simplistic arguments which presume that illegal > activities often earn greater profits. But what is so illegal about the > worlds greatest philanthropist medicating the third world with > experimental drugs from profits earned by the distribution of diseased > software? Illegal activities generally do earn higher levels of profits than other activities; that's the only way for there to be an incentive to take on the risks involved in them. And it *is* fair to say that a lot of Canadian riches were made as a result of US Prohibition... > My friends, it is a viscous circle. Circles don't have viscosity. Only physical materials can be viscous... Such as water, which has a pretty low viscosity, compared to, say, molasses, which has a higher viscosity. >Nobody is perfect but God has seen > to it that each one of us is perfectly suited for something good. We all > have an opportunity to redeem ourselves from the wrongs we have > perpetrated against one another. It just so happens that the world's > greatest philanthropist has a much bigger Bill to pay. It's no "greatness" if the money was earned dishonestly. > I just think it is more appropriate on a Linux list to discuss the > goodness of our chosen OS than to be forever putting down the "other > guy." It makes us all look bad in the eyes of potential converts. Hasn't > anyone noticed all the misguided UNSUBSCRIBERS lately? People truly interested in Linux have a vastly more relevant mailing list they can subscribe to: -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 4 02:38:05 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 22:38:05 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <44FB8663.5010306-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060903172931.36904.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157322583.4921.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB684A.6020907@execulink.com> <44FB6941.60007@rogers.com> <44FB8663.5010306@execulink.com> Message-ID: <1157337485.3877.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> On Sun, 2006-09-03 at 21:50 -0400, Gregory D Hough wrote: > I just think it is more appropriate on a Linux list to discuss the > goodness of our chosen OS than to be forever putting down the "other > guy." It makes us all look bad in the eyes of potential converts. Hasn't > anyone noticed all the misguided UNSUBSCRIBERS lately? > > greg Sorry if I've offended some. I believe the only way to deal with some of the walking, breathing, human garbage out there is to expose their methods. For the faint of heart we have: http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-mini/Advocacy.html RickT -- "We need to slaughter Novell before they get stronger." -Former Microsoft VP James Allchin in a 09-9-91 e-mail (as revealed in Caldera v. Microsoft) http://www.msboycott.com/quotes/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 4 02:53:00 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 22:53:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060904025300.75589.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Christopher Browne wrote: > On 9/3/06, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > Well, never say never when it comes to politics. I > > don't think anything will happen as long the > > Republicans control the US House, US Senate and US > > Presidency, but hopefully that will change with > this > > fall's elections (part of a Canadian disease at > the > > moment, not being keen on Republicans :-) , never > mind > > the fact that some US Democrat administrations > have > > been about as bad for Canada as the > Republicans...). > > Part of the Canadian "disease" is that they tend to > be insufficiently > imaginative to grasp how it could have been that > *any* American could > have voted Republican, forget about giving them > control of so many > portions of branches of the government. > > It's a bit entertaining, if dismaying, to hear > Canadians imagining > themselves to be on the "open-minded" moral high > ground when their > minds are evidently not nearly open enough to > perceive how ordinary > folk could have chosen to vote for the GOP... There are legit reasons why I could understand an American voting Republican, such as liking the Democrats as a party, but thinking the local Democratic candidate is a total jerk and wanting to make sure said local jerk doesn't make it into office. Other reasons to vote Republican ... well I am sure they will come to me :-) . > > Also, quick route for Microsoft to get hammered by > the > > government would be to have some sort of MASSIVE > @#$% > > up in which Microsoft played a real part (say a > virus > > exploiting a security hole that Microsoft hand > known > > about, but not fixed for months effectively > bringing > > down the Internet for a few days...). > > The thing is, too many portions of Internet > infrastructure don't run > WIndows for that to realistically happen. Not sure. At my office we used to have 3 different non-routable networks connected to the Internet via one old FreeBSD box. One network was for the office administration, one was for volunteers, and one was for another charity that had space in our building. One evening I found the Internet connection out of our office was being clobbered. Turned out the other charity had a worm infected MS-Windows box that was creating a lot more traffic than our modest Internet connection could support. My solution, both effective and brutal, was to do an ifconfig down on the interface that supported the other charity. The next day when the other charity complained to me about how the Internet was down my answer was "yes, and it will stay down until...", as I was responsible for keeping the administration / volunteer stuff up, but not de-worming/tending the other charity's MS-Windows boxes... Now, the core routers, etc.. might survive say a massive denial of service attack or totally out of control self propagating worm, but if you get a situation where there was so much traffic that in self-defense Network Admins are shutting down connections in the hope of self-preservation (as I gather happened during the Morris Worm attack of 1988)... the fact that the key routers are still up would become academic... > Cisco legitimately makes a lot of noise; they sell > the routers widely > used by practically everyone, and those routers > *don't* run W*nd*ws. Yes, but ... my office FreeBSD box didn't go down, but until I killed that one interface it was for most practical purposes dead... > It would be believable to hear that all W*nd*ws > systems connected to > the Internet were taken down; that wouldn't take > down the Internet. Yes and no. A Microsoft version of the Morris worm (which some suggest took out about 10% of the machines then on the Internet) could for all PRACTICAL purposes down the Internet for days. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 4 03:09:52 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 23:09:52 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <1157337485.3877.4.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <20060903172931.36904.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157322583.4921.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB684A.6020907@execulink.com> <44FB6941.60007@rogers.com> <44FB8663.5010306@execulink.com> <1157337485.3877.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <44FB9900.30203@telly.org> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: >> I just think it is more appropriate on a Linux list to discuss the >> goodness of our chosen OS than to be forever putting down the "other >> guy." It makes us all look bad in the eyes of potential converts. Hasn't >> anyone noticed all the misguided UNSUBSCRIBERS lately? >> > Sorry if I've offended some. I believe the only way to deal with some of the walking, breathing, human garbage out there is to expose their methods. For the faint of heart we have: > http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-mini/Advocacy.html > The general approach in the world of FOSS is to make the best possible software possible, regardless of the progress of any particular brand X. I heartily advise folks here to read interviews with Linus Torvalds to see how irrelevant Microsoft can be to the development process. Having said that, those of us who try to encourage the use of FOSS can't help but be confronted by folks who have built their careers on using brand x and aren't about to switch any time soon. For some time now, the biggest obstacles to the adoption of FOSS (not just Linux but open source applications) have included inertia and fear of the unknown. Rick, like many long-timers here, understands this. Talking about the entrenched leader is unavoidable when dealing with advocacy/marketing, as we constantly encounter small minds who support the status quo quite deliberately to protect their own careers or accidentally because they don't know any better (or have been led astray by others with vested interests against change). I wouldn't characterize the people we're dealing with as garbage, or as asleep as another message suggested. To do so is to needlessly insult, it enforces the stereotype of FOSS advocates as elitists, AND it suggests a grave error in underestimating the skill or drive of those whose minds we're trying to change. To assert that people reject FOSS out of ignorance (or stupidity) is a big mistake; to use that assumption as a foundation for strategy is a guarantee of failure. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 4 09:59:58 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (paul sutton) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 09:59:58 +0000 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <44FB8663.5010306-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060903172931.36904.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157322583.4921.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB684A.6020907@execulink.com> <44FB6941.60007@rogers.com> <44FB8663.5010306@execulink.com> Message-ID: <44FBF91E.40508@zleap.net> I agree with this 100%, granted I sometimes refer to windows and windoze or doze. Lets concentrate on what OSS can do well at, why Linux is good and discuss ways to promote Linux and counter-act the myths surrounding this software and give the right impression. Paul > > > I just think it is more appropriate on a Linux list to discuss the > goodness of our chosen OS than to be forever putting down the "other > guy." It makes us all look bad in the eyes of potential converts. > Hasn't anyone noticed all the misguided UNSUBSCRIBERS lately? > > greg > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 4 14:19:10 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 10:19:10 -0400 Subject: Software Freedom Day & linuxcaffe Message-ID: Sept 16 is SFD ! see: softwarefreedomday.org the director of the initiative is Pia Waugh, from Auz. according to the Contact>Teams>Canada>ON>Toronto part of the site; === Toronto Ontario Canada. Software Freedom Day looks to be at either Dundas Square, or Nathan Phillips. Olympic Event at Dundas Square might rule out that venue. Other venues are possible. SFD contact is teddymills AT hotmail.com === NEAT ! I wonder what might happen ? As always, we scratched our heads and asked ourselves how this little geek-a-teria might get behind it. ...hmmmmm .. we just did LinuxInThePark2006, and the weather's beginning to turn, to that sort of thing is out... the then BING !!! the light comes on ! We'll shoot a "B-roll" TV news package, and deliver it to the networks in time for them to promote SFD, or at least explain the gaggle of CD waving geeks and the giant inflatable penguin ! We got location, lights, cameras, editing gear, expertise and a DVD burner, so why not ? The Local News stations/ networks will happily use anything local+event+reasonable quality+free, especially something so hi-tech and confusing as Open Source Software. We need; linux Luminaries. The most recognisable and/or influential and/or captivating speakers we can round up this week. Newbies, clueless OK, but wildly enthusiastic. To be interviewed, before the 11th, to make a 15second, a 45second and a 2 minute version, to be completed no later than Sept 13th. I've started a forum topic, at linuxcaffe.ca/sfd, and invite you do GOYA and do something. thank you, djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 4 10:20:35 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (paul sutton) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 10:20:35 +0000 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <44FB9900.30203-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060903172931.36904.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157322583.4921.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB684A.6020907@execulink.com> <44FB6941.60007@rogers.com> <44FB8663.5010306@execulink.com> <1157337485.3877.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB9900.30203@telly.org> Message-ID: <44FBFDF3.9010702@zleap.net> Thank you for the link i have added this to my website, now what I need is some sort of uptodate faq that can help promote the advantages of Linux over other operating systems, without being too complex, the sort of thing that can be used as a guide in promotional material or help me make my own website more accurate, etc. I know there is one out there, but it's pretty big, i just need something simple. for example to answer the following Focus on what Linux has to offer. There is no need to bash the competition. Linux is a good, solid product that stands on its own. but there is no point in saying Linux is a multi-tasking, multiprocessing operating system kernel when I then have to try and explain this to someone with no knowledge of computers, and will just want something to write letters, surf the net and send mail but still understand they are using free software and what that means, KISS whats relevent and what is not kind of thing paul > >> Sorry if I've offended some. I believe the only way to deal with >> some of the walking, breathing, human garbage out there is to expose >> their methods. For the faint of heart we have: >> http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-mini/Advocacy.html >> > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 4 15:24:14 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 11:24:14 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <44FB9900.30203-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060903172931.36904.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157322583.4921.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB684A.6020907@execulink.com> <44FB6941.60007@rogers.com> <44FB8663.5010306@execulink.com> <1157337485.3877.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB9900.30203@telly.org> Message-ID: <1157383454.3920.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I am as equally entitled to mine. I'm certain passengers on the Titanic were adamant about the choices they have made but this doesn't mean I have to like, honor, respect or even entertain the judgment of business leaders who are beyond reasoning with. I call 'em as I see 'em. Tyrants prevail when common people do nothing. Microsoft is an illegal monopoly according the the USDOJ. The company is impacting on our simplest day to day business operations and the economy in a negative way. Some obviously benefit but many do not. RickT On Sun, 2006-09-03 at 23:09 -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > >> I just think it is more appropriate on a Linux list to discuss the > >> goodness of our chosen OS than to be forever putting down the "other > >> guy." It makes us all look bad in the eyes of potential converts. Hasn't > >> anyone noticed all the misguided UNSUBSCRIBERS lately? > >> > > > Sorry if I've offended some. I believe the only way to deal with some of the walking, breathing, human garbage out there is to expose their methods. For the faint of heart we have: > > http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-mini/Advocacy.html > > > > The general approach in the world of FOSS is to make the best possible > software possible, regardless of the progress of any particular brand X. > I heartily advise folks here to read interviews with Linus Torvalds to > see how irrelevant Microsoft can be to the development process. > > Having said that, those of us who try to encourage the use of FOSS can't > help but be confronted by folks who have built their careers on using > brand x and aren't about to switch any time soon. For some time now, the > biggest obstacles to the adoption of FOSS (not just Linux but open > source applications) have included inertia and fear of the unknown. > > Rick, like many long-timers here, understands this. Talking about the > entrenched leader is unavoidable when dealing with advocacy/marketing, > as we constantly encounter small minds who support the status quo quite > deliberately to protect their own careers or accidentally because they > don't know any better (or have been led astray by others with vested > interests against change). > > I wouldn't characterize the people we're dealing with as garbage, or as > asleep as another message suggested. To do so is to needlessly insult, > it enforces the stereotype of FOSS advocates as elitists, AND it > suggests a grave error in underestimating the skill or drive of those > whose minds we're trying to change. > > To assert that people reject FOSS out of ignorance (or stupidity) is a > big mistake; to use that assumption as a foundation for strategy is a > guarantee of failure. > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- For big words see http://www.dictionary.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 4 16:20:25 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 12:20:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <1157383454.3920.17.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1157383454.3920.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <20060904162025.30023.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I > am as equally > entitled to mine. I'm certain passengers on the > Titanic were adamant > about the choices they have made but this doesn't > mean I have to like, > honor, respect or even entertain the judgment of > business leaders who > are beyond reasoning with. I call 'em as I see 'em. > Tyrants prevail when > common people do nothing. Microsoft is an illegal > monopoly according the > the USDOJ. The company is impacting on our simplest > day to day business > operations and the economy in a negative way. Some > obviously benefit but > many do not. > RickT For a few people their 1912 trip on the RMS Titanic was a pleasant experience, seriously. The Titanic made it's maiden voyage from Southampton, England, with stops at Cherbourg, France and Queenstown, Ireland, then from there the ship went into the Atlantic ocean for a date with an iceberg. There were a handful of people who only travelled from Southampton to Cherbourg or Queenston, and for them the RMS Titanic was good (this also explains why there are some nice surviving pictures taken during the Titanic's maiden voyage, all by a man who got off at Queenstown). Same story with Microsoft products, yes, there are some VERY few cases where Microsoft software is the best solution, but ... You don't want to use it one the big bad ocean (aka: the Internet), and ... and .... Colin McGregor > On Sun, 2006-09-03 at 23:09 -0400, Evan Leibovitch > wrote: > > Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > >> I just think it is more appropriate on a Linux > list to discuss the > > >> goodness of our chosen OS than to be forever > putting down the "other > > >> guy." It makes us all look bad in the eyes of > potential converts. Hasn't > > >> anyone noticed all the misguided UNSUBSCRIBERS > lately? > > >> > > > > > Sorry if I've offended some. I believe the only > way to deal with some of the walking, breathing, > human garbage out there is to expose their methods. > For the faint of heart we have: > > > > http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-mini/Advocacy.html > > > > > > > The general approach in the world of FOSS is to > make the best possible > > software possible, regardless of the progress of > any particular brand X. > > I heartily advise folks here to read interviews > with Linus Torvalds to > > see how irrelevant Microsoft can be to the > development process. > > > > Having said that, those of us who try to encourage > the use of FOSS can't > > help but be confronted by folks who have built > their careers on using > > brand x and aren't about to switch any time soon. > For some time now, the > > biggest obstacles to the adoption of FOSS (not > just Linux but open > > source applications) have included inertia and > fear of the unknown. > > > > Rick, like many long-timers here, understands > this. Talking about the > > entrenched leader is unavoidable when dealing with > advocacy/marketing, > > as we constantly encounter small minds who support > the status quo quite > > deliberately to protect their own careers or > accidentally because they > > don't know any better (or have been led astray by > others with vested > > interests against change). > > > > I wouldn't characterize the people we're dealing > with as garbage, or as > > asleep as another message suggested. To do so is > to needlessly insult, > > it enforces the stereotype of FOSS advocates as > elitists, AND it > > suggests a grave error in underestimating the > skill or drive of those > > whose minds we're trying to change. > > > > To assert that people reject FOSS out of ignorance > (or stupidity) is a > > big mistake; to use that assumption as a > foundation for strategy is a > > guarantee of failure. > > > > - Evan > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- > For big words see http://www.dictionary.com > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 4 16:51:22 2006 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 12:51:22 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <44FBFDF3.9010702-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060903172931.36904.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157322583.4921.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB684A.6020907@execulink.com> <44FB6941.60007@rogers.com> <44FB8663.5010306@execulink.com> <1157337485.3877.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB9900.30203@telly.org> <44FBFDF3.9010702@zleap.net> Message-ID: <44FC598A.3060505@execulink.com> paul sutton wrote: > Thank you for the link i have added this to my website, now what I need > is some sort of uptodate faq that can help promote the advantages of > Linux over other operating systems, without being too complex, the sort > of thing that can be used as a guide in promotional material or help me > make my own website more accurate, etc. > > I know there is one out there, but it's pretty big, i just need > something simple. for example to answer the following > > Focus on what Linux has to offer. There is no need to bash the > competition. Linux is a good, solid product that stands on its own. > > but there is no point in saying Linux is a multi-tasking, > multiprocessing operating system kernel when I then have to try and > explain this to someone with no knowledge of computers, and will just > want something to write letters, surf the net and send mail but still > understand they are using free software and what that means, KISS whats > relevent and what is not kind of thing > > paul > That's the whole point of discussions like these Paul... It ain't simple. The closed minds you'll encounter is the only element of simplicity. But it is my opinion that we Linux users have a silver bullet in our arsenal and that's the "Live Distro." Something the other guy won't touch with a telephone poll. Distros such as Mandrake Move, Knoppix and many others, are a great way to introduce Linux to family, friends and coworkers. It runs on their computer without messing with their hard drive, except possibly utilising Windows swap for some memory. Your local bookstore is a treasure trove for Linux magazines which have tripled over the last few years. When I browse the mags, I always make sure I accidently put them back on the shelf in a more prominent place, like in front of the popular PC stuff. There is a better chance that the next person will see it on the front shelf and buy it. If more are sold, the bookstore orders more and Linux quietly grows with just a teeny effort on your part. greg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 4 17:58:35 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 13:58:35 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901221414.GA28632@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <20060904175834.GA5113@wp.magstar.net> On Sun, Sep 03, 2006 at 12:41:19AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: William Park > > | Interesting... I'm thinking about getting rid of all my P2/P3's (all 4 > | of them) and replace them with a single P4 system. > > I've never bought a P4 (except for junky & cheap Celeron D systems). > I would think that it would be silly to do so know. > > Core 2 is best right now, but not cheapest. > > Athlon is good, and cheap. > > So why buy a P4 which isn't good and can hardly be significantly > cheaper than Athlon? > > Back-of-envelope calculation: P4 might take 40 more watts than an > Athlon. If you leave your machine on all the time (which I do, and I > would guess you do) that amounts > 40W * 24h/d * 365d/y = 350kwh / y > or about $20 extra per year in power charges. > > Bonus: the latest Athlons (those that use DDR2) and all Cores (except > T2300e) have hardware assistance for virtualization. It seems that all AM2 socket has DDR2 support. I am considering 1. - Sempron (AM2/2800+), $48 - DDR2-800 (2x512), $140 - Asus M2N-MX (AM2/nVidia), $99 2. - P4-541 (3.2GHz/800MHz), $109 - DDR-400 (2x512/2-3-2-5), $155 - Asus P5GL-MX (915GL/ICH6), $80 So, it's about the same price. And, they are the cheapest in Toronto. It all comes down to chipset. I'm more comfortable with Intel chipset than nVidia. I would be very interested in hearing any first-hand experiences about nVidia + Linux, since all I hear is nVidia + Windows. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 4 18:49:23 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 14:49:23 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <20060904175834.GA5113-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901221414.GA28632@wp.magstar.net> <20060904175834.GA5113@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <44FC7533.5020703@pppoe.ca> William Park wrote: >It seems that all AM2 socket has DDR2 support. I am considering > > 1. - Sempron (AM2/2800+), $48 > - DDR2-800 (2x512), $140 > - Asus M2N-MX (AM2/nVidia), $99 > > 2. - P4-541 (3.2GHz/800MHz), $109 > - DDR-400 (2x512/2-3-2-5), $155 > - Asus P5GL-MX (915GL/ICH6), $80 > >So, it's about the same price. And, they are the cheapest in Toronto. > >It all comes down to chipset. I'm more comfortable with Intel chipset >than nVidia. I would be very interested in hearing any first-hand >experiences about nVidia + Linux, since all I hear is nVidia + Windows. > > I'm running a Sempron 2500+ (Socket 754) 1.4 GHz CPU with a nVidia nForce 3 250 chipset, Asus K8N motherboard. No complaints. Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 4 18:55:49 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 14:55:49 -0400 Subject: Toronto Linux Job Market Message-ID: <44FC76B5.3070208@pppoe.ca> I came across this on craigslist dated August 29, http://toronto.craigslist.org/sad/200409342.html Is the job market this bad? Linux-Windows Systems Administrator- needs job-has wage subsid I am a Linux and Windows Systems Administrator. I have 10+ years of IT experience with Linux and Windows and networking. I am looking for an IT job in the Toronto area that involves: Linux, RHEL-4 internet servers, Windows, Windows 2003 Server, System Administration, Apache, MySQL, PHP, VOIP, Samba, ecommerce programming, CRMs, websites, firewalls, vpns, kernel programming, computer consulting etc. I have a wage subsidy. This means upto 60% of my wages will be paid by my sponser to a maximum of $7,000. You, the employer would pay 40% of my wage (until the $7,000 subsidy is used up) To be eligible the job must be (at minimum) (more is definitely ok :) 1. permament 2. 35 hours a week 3. $10 an hour I can send you my current resume in Word and PDF format as needed. Job location is Toronto * Compensation: permanent, 35 hours a week, minimum of $10/hour * yes -- OK for recruiters to contact this job poster. * yes -- Phone calls about this job are ok. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 4 19:07:46 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 15:07:46 -0400 Subject: Toronto Linux Job Market In-Reply-To: <44FC76B5.3070208-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <44FC76B5.3070208@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <44FC7982.5000209@rogers.com> Meng Cheah wrote: > I came across this on craigslist dated August 29, > http://toronto.craigslist.org/sad/200409342.html > Is the job market this bad? If he has Windows skills, he should be able to find something through Kelly, Compugen etc., if nothing else. $10/hour is *LOW*. If he has all those skills, he should be able to find something, unless there's some other problem. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 4 19:47:21 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 15:47:21 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <44FBFDF3.9010702-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060903172931.36904.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157322583.4921.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB684A.6020907@execulink.com> <44FB6941.60007@rogers.com> <44FB8663.5010306@execulink.com> <1157337485.3877.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB9900.30203@telly.org> <44FBFDF3.9010702@zleap.net> Message-ID: <1157399241.3898.2.camel@spot1.localhost.com> I've been perusing linux.org for close to a decade. Lots of good things... RickT http://www.linux.org/info/index.html http://www.linux.org/info/wanttouse.html http://www.novell.com/linux/?sourceid=sle10 http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Mon, 2006-09-04 at 10:20 +0000, paul sutton wrote: > Thank you for the link i have added this to my website, now what I need > is some sort of uptodate faq that can help promote the advantages of > Linux over other operating systems, without being too complex, the sort > of thing that can be used as a guide in promotional material or help me > make my own website more accurate, etc. > > I know there is one out there, but it's pretty big, i just need > something simple. for example to answer the following > > Focus on what Linux has to offer. There is no need to bash the > competition. Linux is a good, solid product that stands on its own. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 4 19:47:36 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 15:47:36 -0400 Subject: Toronto Linux Job Market In-Reply-To: <44FC76B5.3070208-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <44FC76B5.3070208@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <20060904194736.GA23763@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> I find the job market to be very good this year. I have recruiters calling me regularly. -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux System Administrator | Uptime 3 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.16.19 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 4 20:37:04 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 16:37:04 -0400 Subject: Toronto Linux Job Market In-Reply-To: <20060904194736.GA23763-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <44FC76B5.3070208@pppoe.ca> <20060904194736.GA23763@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <44FC8E70.1030700@rogers.com> Neil Watson wrote: > I find the job market to be very good this year. I have recruiters > calling me regularly. > I've had a few too. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 4 22:36:33 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 18:36:33 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <20060904175834.GA5113-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901221414.GA28632@wp.magstar.net> <20060904175834.GA5113@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <44FCAA71.9050500@telly.org> William Park wrote: >> Back-of-envelope calculation: P4 might take 40 more watts than an >> Athlon. If you leave your machine on all the time (which I do, and I >> would guess you do) that amounts >> 40W * 24h/d * 365d/y = 350kwh / y >> or about $20 extra per year in power charges. >> My personal concern is as much about energy dissipation as consumption. Which runs hotter? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 00:09:36 2006 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 20:09:36 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks Message-ID: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> I have a bunch of 7" (yes, 7-inch) double-sided, high density (something over 1MB per disk) floppies that I want to try to read. I really just want a dump onto a CD. I can decode the format (UCSD P-System) and extract the data. These were probably last used 20 years ago, but have been stored fairly carefully. I don't have much of a budget for this, but I would really like to read them, if possible. Any ideas, offers, or recommendations much appreciated! Thanks ../Dave (P.S. I know this is kinda off-topic, but I don't know of a more-knowledgeable Toronto group.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 00:33:03 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 20:33:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <20060905000936.6895F854EF-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > I have a bunch of 7" (yes, 7-inch) double-sided, high density (something > over 1MB per disk) floppies that I want to try to read. Zbigniew Stachniak (zbigniew-syTJIgLXA8osA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org) at York University has an extensive collection of legacy hardware and software as the basis for a small computer museum. So he might have something that is functional. Peter (Speaking of computer museums, I recall back in the early 80's a visiting high-school student remarked that the equipment in the Ryerson CS department would make a fine museum, and that they should simply change the label on the lab door. This story had wide currency, and suddenly there was a massive upgrade of the computer labs.) P. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 01:28:12 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 21:28:12 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <20060905000936.6895F854EF-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <44FCD2AC.7080405@rogers.com> Dave Mason wrote: > I have a bunch of 7" (yes, 7-inch) double-sided, high density (something > over 1MB per disk) floppies that I want to try to read. I really just > want a dump onto a CD. I can decode the format (UCSD P-System) and extract the > data. These were probably last used 20 years ago, but have been stored > fairly carefully. I don't have much of a budget for this, but I would > really like to read them, if possible. > > Any ideas, offers, or recommendations much appreciated! I believe you mean 8 inch floppies. You'd have to find someone with an 8 inch floppy drive and a system that can understand the format use. Also, are they hard or soft sectored? Hard sectored disks have several holes around the hub and soft sectored only one. They are not compatible. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 01:39:36 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 21:39:36 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <44FCAA71.9050500-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901221414.GA28632@wp.magstar.net> <20060904175834.GA5113@wp.magstar.net> <44FCAA71.9050500@telly.org> Message-ID: <44FCD558.1020402@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > William Park wrote: >>> Back-of-envelope calculation: P4 might take 40 more watts than an >>> Athlon. If you leave your machine on all the time (which I do, and I >>> would guess you do) that amounts 40W * 24h/d * 365d/y = 350kwh / y >>> or about $20 extra per year in power charges. >>> > My personal concern is as much about energy dissipation as consumption. They'd better be the same, unless you've discovered some new law of physics. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 01:45:23 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 21:45:23 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <44FCD6B3.3040100@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> I have a bunch of 7" (yes, 7-inch) double-sided, high density (something >> over 1MB per disk) floppies that I want to try to read. > > Zbigniew Stachniak (zbigniew-syTJIgLXA8osA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org) at York University has an > extensive collection of legacy hardware and software as the basis for a > small computer museum. So he might have something that is functional. > > Peter > > (Speaking of computer museums, I recall back in the early 80's a visiting > high-school student remarked that the equipment in the Ryerson CS > department would make a fine museum, and that they should simply change > the label on the lab door. This story had wide currency, and suddenly > there was a massive upgrade of the computer labs.) That would have been around the time I attended. They were just getting rid of the card punch equipment and soon brought in some microcomputers (Apple II and Zenith Z89). Of course there was still the problem of finding an available IBM terminal, that wasn't broken. ;-) Incidentally, I used to work with some 8" floppy drives, on Data General Eclipse and DEC VAX 11/780 systems. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 01:46:46 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 21:46:46 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <44FCD558.1020402-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901221414.GA28632@wp.magstar.net> <20060904175834.GA5113@wp.magstar.net> <44FCAA71.9050500@telly.org> <44FCD558.1020402@rogers.com> Message-ID: <44FCD706.30504@telly.org> James Knott wrote: > They'd better be the same, unless you've discovered some new law of > physics. ;-) > Sorry, I never studied law. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 01:50:37 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 21:50:37 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <20060905000936.6895F854EF-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On 9/4/06, Dave Mason wrote: > I have a bunch of 7" (yes, 7-inch) double-sided, high density (something > over 1MB per disk) floppies that I want to try to read. I really just > want a dump onto a CD. I can decode the format (UCSD P-System) and extract the > data. These were probably last used 20 years ago, but have been stored > fairly carefully. I don't have much of a budget for this, but I would > really like to read them, if possible. > > Any ideas, offers, or recommendations much appreciated! Are you sure that's 7"? The sequence of "floppy" formats was 8", then 5 1/4", then 3.5. I do not recall there ever being 7" floppies. Ebay.ca lists one relevant drive; a Shugart 851, located in England, priced at about $850... It's going to be challenging to find a suitable reader. If someone has an old CP/M machine, that may be helpful. Unfortunately, this represents hardware that is *really* obsolete, which has been replaced by a bunch of successive hardware generations... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 01:56:39 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 21:56:39 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <44FCD957.2050306@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 9/4/06, Dave Mason wrote: >> I have a bunch of 7" (yes, 7-inch) double-sided, high density (something >> over 1MB per disk) floppies that I want to try to read. I really just >> want a dump onto a CD. I can decode the format (UCSD P-System) and >> extract the >> data. These were probably last used 20 years ago, but have been stored >> fairly carefully. I don't have much of a budget for this, but I would >> really like to read them, if possible. >> >> Any ideas, offers, or recommendations much appreciated! > > Are you sure that's 7"? > > The sequence of "floppy" formats was 8", then 5 1/4", then 3.5. > > I do not recall there ever being 7" floppies. > > Ebay.ca lists one relevant drive; a Shugart 851, located in England, > priced at about $850... > > It's going to be challenging to find a suitable reader. If someone > has an old CP/M machine, that may be helpful. Unfortunately, this > represents hardware that is *really* obsolete, which has been replaced > by a bunch of successive hardware generations... Of course, after 20 years the data might not be readable. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 02:42:19 2006 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 22:42:19 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <44FB9900.30203-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060903172931.36904.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157322583.4921.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB684A.6020907@execulink.com> <44FB6941.60007@rogers.com> <44FB8663.5010306@execulink.com> <1157337485.3877.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB9900.30203@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060905024219.GC24295@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Sun, Sep 03, 2006 at 11:09:52PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: v- insert word here > To assert that people reject FOSS out of ignorance (or stupidity) is a > big mistake; to use that assumption as a foundation for strategy is a > guarantee of failure. If the "insert word here" is "all" then, sure, you're right. If that word is "some" you're totally wrong. Certainly there are lots of people that reject FOSS out of ignorance - they've believed the various bits of high profile FUD they've heard and haven't been exposed to the appropriate, often lower profile, anti-FUD. There are many that reject FOSS out of vested interest. Some deliberately and maliciously, others simply because their vested interests also function as blinders. There are also people who reject FOSS because it is not the right tool for their particular job; and they are usually right to be so. That is not a reason to avoid trying to address FUD and raise the conciousness of the less-concerned/ignorant who might have a lot to gain. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 02:25:29 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:25:29 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <20060905000936.6895F854EF-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <44FCE019.6000103@telly.org> Dave Mason wrote: > I have a bunch of 7" (yes, 7-inch) double-sided, high density (something over 1MB per disk) floppies that I want to try to read. I really just want a dump onto a CD. I can decode the format (UCSD P-System) and extract the data. These were probably last used 20 years ago, but have been stored fairly carefully. This puzzled me. I've used 8" floppies (in PDP-11s) and 5" floppies (Apple ][s, Commodores and the original IBM PCs). I've never heard of 7" ones. I don't recall the P-system being used on minis, and I don't recall 8" disks being able to store more than a few hundred KB, so my guess is on the 5" format. Then again, if the disks are that old, they're also from the days of when hard-sectored disks (16 holes in the media) were compatible with soft-sectored stuff (1 hole). Finding 5" drives shouldn't yet be too hard; finding 8" drives will be quite a bit harder. Finding one that supports your sectoring scheme, and having your disks have held their magnetism long enough to give you something readable.... if you can get it to work, immediately go out and but a lottery ticket. :-) > (P.S. I know this is kinda off-topic, but I don't know of a more-knowledgeable Toronto group.) > I won't spread that to the folks at u-u if you don't ;-). - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 02:53:16 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:53:16 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <20060905024219.GC24295-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20060903172931.36904.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157322583.4921.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB684A.6020907@execulink.com> <44FB6941.60007@rogers.com> <44FB8663.5010306@execulink.com> <1157337485.3877.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB9900.30203@telly.org> <20060905024219.GC24295@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <44FCE69C.6000405@telly.org> John Macdonald wrote: > On Sun, Sep 03, 2006 at 11:09:52PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > v- insert word here > >> To assert that people reject FOSS out of ignorance (or stupidity) is a >> big mistake; to use that assumption as a foundation for strategy is a >> guarantee of failure. >> > > If the "insert word here" is "all" then, sure, you're right. > If that word is "some" you're totally wrong. > Agreed. My problem is in the universality of the insult that *any* choice against FOSS is only done out of ignorance or malice, and the ultimate harm that such stereotyping can cause. > Certainly there are lots of people that reject FOSS out of ignorance - they've believed the various bits of high profile FUD they've heard and haven't been exposed to the appropriate, often lower profile, anti-FUD. Agreed. But I would take it a step further that they may not even believe the FUD themselves, but that doesn't matter if its result suits their purposes. They can also hate SCO, or be aware that SCO has no case, while exploiting its actions to avoid consideration of FOSS. They many not hate FOSS per-se but see it as a threat to their way of doing things (or their mastery over the realm they manage). This can be addressed, but not using conventional FUDbusting techniques, since it's hard to "unprove" a concern or doubt. True FUDbusting requires two parallel approaches. One is to attack the FUD and its source, but the other (often forgotten) part is to soothe the residual confusion and alieve the many "what if" fears. Trying to comfort someone you consider a moron (or evil) requires acting skills that I suggest are beyond the abilities of most advocates. This is far better handled, at the source, by ditching the contempt. > There are many that reject FOSS out of vested interest. And sometimes (often, in my experience) that vested interest is not so much a love of Micorosoft but an aversion to *any* change. They may know (and even agree) that the status quo sucks but have a long list of reasons why to cope rather than switch. I take it as a given that some of the extreme (and high-level) forms of this will not change until certain people retire. > Some deliberately and maliciously, Here's where we part company. They may be incompetent, or too comfortable, or simply scared to death of the new -- but few managers are malicious. Only employees and shareholders in Microsoft, as well as reviewers, resellers and servicers of its products have true vested interests in the company's success. The rest "love Microsoft" or "love proprietary", more often or not, because they're simply adverse to significant change and are forever looking for excuses and reasons to avoid/deny it. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 06:21:27 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 02:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060905062127.14745.qmail@web61323.mail.yahoo.com> Dapper Drake has a ia32-lib emulator and apt-get has the --force-architecture option to force a 32bit program to be installed. However, I must say, that I didn't install any of this programs. The only 32-bit application that I installed are those that are preconfigured; OpenOffice and so on. EK Mark Lane wrote: On 9/1/06, E K wrote: > I have installed 64 bit Ubuntu (You can download it at > http://gulus.usherbrooke.ca/pub/distro/ubuntu/iso/6.06/ubuntu-6.06.1-alternate-amd64.iso) > on Gateway GT4010 (AMD Athlon 64 3500 2.2GHz > processor, 1GB, nVidia GeForce 6100 onboard graphics) > without a hitch. > I'm sure Ubuntu is good if you are sticking with pure 64Bit software but can apt-get handle multi-arch libs yet? If you need some 32bit apps like a flash plugin for your browser or mplayer's 32bit codecs, Fedora is much more mature 64Bit system. -- Mark Lane, CET -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml --------------------------------- Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger with Voice -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 12:37:05 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 08:37:05 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <44FCE69C.6000405-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060903172931.36904.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157322583.4921.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB684A.6020907@execulink.com> <44FB6941.60007@rogers.com> <44FB8663.5010306@execulink.com> <1157337485.3877.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB9900.30203@telly.org> <20060905024219.GC24295@lupus.perlwolf.com> <44FCE69C.6000405@telly.org> Message-ID: It's really very simple; People will only change when the pain of the status quo is greater than the pain of change. For many of us (converted) we crossed that threshold long ago, but the rest of the populace will have to wait for a worm to eat their precious files, or the release of MS Vista ! -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 13:18:30 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 09:18:30 -0400 Subject: FreeNX Message-ID: <61e9e2b10609050618i944eed8r697f8ac56d87b9d6@mail.gmail.com> I have been messing around with FreeNX - remote display tech for accessing your Linux desktop from anywhere - and just posted a HOWTO: http://biohackery.com/node/38 This stuff is fun (and useful)! If you have never checked it out, I highly recommend it - the speed is pretty remarkable, and has many novel applications. One of the things I am going to use it for is to remotely administer the Linux box at my folks' place. I would love to hear feedback from other FreeNX users on how you put it to use! -- Daniel Wayne Armstrong :: build it yourself biology http://biohackery.com :: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 13:30:56 2006 From: kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kyle O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 09:30:56 -0400 Subject: Toronto Linux Job Market In-Reply-To: <44FC8E70.1030700-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <44FC76B5.3070208@pppoe.ca> <20060904194736.GA23763@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <44FC8E70.1030700@rogers.com> Message-ID: <2274b9c30609050630o41af3244pfb4087678b4b2966@mail.gmail.com> I've been emailed or called weekly. The IT job market has been pretty good for the last few years. Meng, I would check http://toronto.craigslist.com for jobs. I've seen a few posts that match your skillset. --kyleo On 9/4/06, James Knott wrote: > Neil Watson wrote: > > I find the job market to be very good this year. I have recruiters > > calling me regularly. > > > > I've had a few too. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 14:07:30 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 10:07:30 -0400 Subject: Toronto Linux Job Market In-Reply-To: <2274b9c30609050630o41af3244pfb4087678b4b2966-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <44FC76B5.3070208@pppoe.ca> <20060904194736.GA23763@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <44FC8E70.1030700@rogers.com> <2274b9c30609050630o41af3244pfb4087678b4b2966@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44FD84A2.2060202@pppoe.ca> Kyle O'Donnell wrote: > I've been emailed or called weekly. The IT job market has been pretty > good for the last few years. > > Meng, > > I would check http://toronto.craigslist.com for jobs. I've seen a few > posts that match your skillset. > > --kyleo > Kyle That's not me, that was the post. http://toronto.craigslist.com (or .org) is where I found the post. It was dated August 29, http://toronto.craigslist.org/sad/200409342.html Regards Meng Cheah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 14:21:31 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 10:21:31 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <44FD84E4.2000400-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060903172931.36904.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44FB6941.60007@rogers.com> <44FB8663.5010306@execulink.com> <1157337485.3877.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB9900.30203@telly.org> <20060905024219.GC24295@lupus.perlwolf.com> <44FCE69C.6000405@telly.org> <44FD84E4.2000400@execulink.com> Message-ID: On 9/5/06, Gregory D Hough wrote: > Isn't the pain already at critical mass? yes and no. It's more pain (in the a**) than ever, more expensive, more time consuming and more risky, but, as you say, for most that's "just the way it is" untill the word reaches them that there's another way. and that's our job ! djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 14:08:36 2006 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 10:08:36 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: References: <20060903172931.36904.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157322583.4921.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB684A.6020907@execulink.com> <44FB6941.60007@rogers.com> <44FB8663.5010306@execulink.com> <1157337485.3877.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB9900.30203@telly.org> <20060905024219.GC24295@lupus.perlwolf.com> <44FCE69C.6000405@telly.org> Message-ID: <44FD84E4.2000400@execulink.com> David J Patrick wrote: > It's really very simple; > People will only change when the pain of the status quo is greater > than the pain of change. For many of us (converted) we crossed that > threshold long ago, but the rest of the populace will have to wait for > a worm to eat their precious files, or the release of MS Vista ! Isn't the pain already at critical mass? I mean look at all what ya gotta do with a WinOS these days. You have to buy an AV and update sigs every day and you must renew that subscription every year to remain even mildly protected. You must contend with botnets that never go away seeking services on the box which are listening by default. You are given a browser riddled with a builtin error of design in which to visit your happy-go-plucky sites. You then must acquire certain Spyware and Adware gadgets to keep your cache clean. People have accepted all this as "just the way it is." I really don't think it is worth the energy beating this dead horse any longer. The money spent for all the above is huge and I don't think you're gonna find those holding the bursary willing to part company. greg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sacha-ctE++fEYmiYdc6zLPptBHg at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 3 13:27:13 2006 From: sacha-ctE++fEYmiYdc6zLPptBHg at public.gmane.org (Sacha Chua) Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 09:27:13 -0400 Subject: relayhost when authentication is required In-Reply-To: <1157075412.5232.20.camel@localhost> (Matt Price's message of "Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:50:12 -0400") References: <20060831171937.GB28391@utoronto.ca> <1157075412.5232.20.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <87psedjd1q.fsf@sachachua.com> Matt Price writes: > now in addition to this i really feel my laptop ought to be able to > switch postfix configurations when i go from location to location... > but that's another story! Try laptop-net or divine. =) -- Sacha Chua - http://sachachua.com Technology evangelist, storyteller, wannabe conversationalist, geekette Aspiring connector looking for mentors Interested in connecting and social computing in the enterprise -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 14:35:35 2006 From: tlug-G8usDCtqe957Ar2qsurDTA at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 10:35:35 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <44FCD2AC.7080405-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <44FCD2AC.7080405@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060905143535.GA3395@thecat.localnet> On Mon, Sep 04, 2006 at 09:28:12PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Dave Mason wrote: > > I have a bunch of 7" (yes, 7-inch) double-sided, high density (something > > over 1MB per disk) floppies that I want to try to read. I really just > > want a dump onto a CD. I can decode the format (UCSD P-System) and extract the > > data. These were probably last used 20 years ago, but have been stored > > fairly carefully. I don't have much of a budget for this, but I would > > really like to read them, if possible. > > > > Any ideas, offers, or recommendations much appreciated! > > I believe you mean 8 inch floppies. You'd have to find someone with an > 8 inch floppy drive and a system that can understand the format use. > Also, are they hard or soft sectored? Hard sectored disks have several > holes around the hub and soft sectored only one. They are not compatible. I actually have an 8" drive somewhere in the mountain of boxes in my basement but the CP/M system that I used it on is long gone. Since I just moved last week, my chances of finding it are slim at the moment. As others have noted, odds of reading old magnetic media go down significantly somewhere in the 5 to 10 year range. Good Luck, Allen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 14:43:16 2006 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 10:43:16 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <44FCE019.6000103-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <44FCE019.6000103@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060905144316.A88A1854F5@sarg.ryerson.ca> Oops... I thought all the UU people were now TLUG people! ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 14:46:28 2006 From: kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kyle O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 10:46:28 -0400 Subject: Toronto Linux Job Market In-Reply-To: <44FD84A2.2060202-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <44FC76B5.3070208@pppoe.ca> <20060904194736.GA23763@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <44FC8E70.1030700@rogers.com> <2274b9c30609050630o41af3244pfb4087678b4b2966@mail.gmail.com> <44FD84A2.2060202@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <2274b9c30609050746t21bb8726u44ca3f0c1762c3da@mail.gmail.com> woops :) On 9/5/06, Meng Cheah wrote: > Kyle O'Donnell wrote: > > > I've been emailed or called weekly. The IT job market has been pretty > > good for the last few years. > > > > Meng, > > > > I would check http://toronto.craigslist.com for jobs. I've seen a few > > posts that match your skillset. > > > > --kyleo > > > > Kyle > > That's not me, that was the post. > > http://toronto.craigslist.com (or .org) is where I found the post. > It was dated August 29, http://toronto.craigslist.org/sad/200409342.html > > Regards > > Meng Cheah > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 14:48:31 2006 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 10:48:31 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <44FCD2AC.7080405-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <44FCD2AC.7080405@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060905144831.C1447854F5@sarg.ryerson.ca> Yes, of course... shows how long it's been. These are 8" floppies, dual-head, double-side, soft-sector, double-density (3M 743-0 is on most of them). And they have (had) about 1MB on them. They come off a Z-80 based, UCSD P-System. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 15:48:15 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 18:48:15 +0300 Subject: Gnome issue Message-ID: Hi all A couple of hours ago, I installed Oracle 10g on a RHE3, following documentation to the letter. After installation, all was well untill I logged out. Then logging in as user oracle fails. Xfree86 works well, but gnome fails, leaving me with a dark desktop and a pop up with the error message below "your session only lasted less than 10 seconds. If you have not logged out yourself, this could mean that there is installation problem or that you may be out of diskspace." When I click okay, I am kicked out of the login session. I log in as another user and these are some of the information that I dug out that I assume may be helpful. (nautilus:7307): Eel-WARNING **: GConf error: Failed to contact configuration server; some possible causes are that you need to enable TCP/IP networking for ORBit, or you have stale NFS locks due to a system crash. See http://www.gnome.org/projects/gconf/ for information. (Details - 1: IOR file '/home/oracle/.gconfd/lock/ior' not opened successfully, no gconfd located: No such file or directory 2: IOR file '/home/oracle/.gconfd/lock/ior' not opened successfully, no gconfd located: No such file or directory) [root at theonion root]# ls -ld /home/oracle/ drwxrwxrwx 18 oracle oinstall 4096 Sep 5 17:22 /home/oracle/ [root at theonion root]# df /home/oracle/ Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/hda2 36859304 6736952 28249980 20% / What could be the issue? I am sure its related to oracle installation as it affect only one user and it started after installing the said application. Is there anybody who has seen this problem in the past? Is there a way of starting oracle without logging in as user oracle? Thanks in advance William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 15:49:50 2006 From: kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kyle O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 11:49:50 -0400 Subject: MS debuts voice recognition software Message-ID: <2274b9c30609050849y2d8c1897x69643ce74c6f076@mail.gmail.com> teehee http://www.break.com/movies/microsoft_test_fails.html --kyleo -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 16:09:07 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 12:09:07 -0400 Subject: MS debuts voice recognition software In-Reply-To: <2274b9c30609050849y2d8c1897x69643ce74c6f076-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <2274b9c30609050849y2d8c1897x69643ce74c6f076@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 9/5/06, Kyle O'Donnell wrote: > > teehee > > http://www.break.com/movies/microsoft_test_fails.html > > --kyleo > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml I couldn't find a link on the break.com web page to start the video .. but the youtube.com link appears to work fine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmkQ1Nc9UYQ To be fair to Microsoft, speech recognition is an incredibly tough nut to crack. Or as they say, to recognize speech, you have to 'wreck a nice beach'. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 15:21:58 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:21:58 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <20060905143535.GA3395-70WplSiaoiAG/9ncUZ6upg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <44FCD2AC.7080405@rogers.com> <20060905143535.GA3395@thecat.localnet> Message-ID: <44FD9616.5020206@telly.org> Allen Taylor wrote: >> I believe you mean 8 inch floppies. You'd have to find someone with an >> 8 inch floppy drive and a system that can understand the format use. >> Worse than that, you need to find a controller for it as well; 8" drives won't have the cable headers used by 3" floppies. I don't even recall if they used the same spec as 5" drives (which motherboards stopped supporting quite some time ago). The chances of finding such a controller are slim, and finding it for PCI substantially slimmer (since the 8" floppy controller spec was out of use for quite a while by the time PCI cards came into use. According to Wikipedia, there was only one source for drives supporting the 1M double-sided format: "The dual-sided 1MB floppy entered production in 1975, but was plagued by an industry problem, poor media quality. There were few tools available to test media for 'bit-shift' on the inner tracks, which made for high error rates, and the result was a substantial investment by Burroughs in a media tester design that they then gave to media makers as a quality control tool, leading to a vast improvement in yields." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk#Origins.2C_the_8-inch_disk Like I said, if you do end up being able to read these things, immediately go out and buy a lottery ticket. There's a possible solution, but it's commercial; CBL Data Recovery in Markham. I know they've got just about every tape drive format ever made, maybe they can handle old floppies too. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 16:29:09 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 12:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <20060905000936.6895F854EF-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20060905162909.6127.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Dave Mason wrote: > I have a bunch of 7" (yes, 7-inch) double-sided, > high density (something > over 1MB per disk) floppies that I want to try to > read. I really just > want a dump onto a CD. I can decode the format > (UCSD P-System) and extract the > data. These were probably last used 20 years ago, > but have been stored > fairly carefully. I don't have much of a budget for > this, but I would > really like to read them, if possible. > > Any ideas, offers, or recommendations much > appreciated! > > Thanks ../Dave The co-founder of the Toronto Free-Net was the head data librarian at the University of Toronto (a project I have been very involved with), and I know that old odd-ball magnetic media has been a regular pain for her. If you would like I would be happy to forward your question on to her and ask if she can offer her $0.02 worth. Said woman may not have an answer or only have an answer if you are part of the University of Toronto, but... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 16:05:46 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 12:05:46 -0400 Subject: US Supreme Court to hear "sw patents vs open source" case Message-ID: <44FDA05A.8000204@telly.org> I'm surprised Groklaw hasn't picked it up yet. http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=192501175 - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 16:39:56 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 12:39:56 -0400 Subject: Software Freedom Day; the local team Message-ID: Ahhh ! Our sweet summer of 2006 seems to have ended like it was on a switch. Back to school/ work, rake some leaves, think about Halloween costumes and HEY ! Here comes Software Freedom Day ! www.softwarefreedomday.org and what, if anything, do we want to do about it ? The event (or at least the website) is BIG! Kind of sponsored by Ubuntu, with an impressive number of participants around the globe. Sadly, as of this writing, Toronto (even Canada!) is barely represented. That's right ! literally, not on the map. Oh, we love our free software, alright, with a lotta LUGs and meet-ups and happy OSS users aplenty, but we're not spending enough quality time together. I mean the city, the country, the planet. There's a lot of 'em signed up to make some noise, http://www.softwarefreedomday.org/map/2006 and they're singing our song ! Y'know, the one about the Free Software and Freedom and stuff ? http://www.gnu.org/music/free-software-song.html *sigh* So anyways, If tlug got game den BRING IT ON ! [rolls big speakers into the gym, fires up thunderously catchy trax] GIMME A "G" GIMME A "T" GIMME AN"heyyy, where you guys goin' ? all I'm sayin, is if you ever got the urge to rush out and tell somebody how important free software is to you and the world, maybe Sept 16 is a good day for it ! Everybody else is doing it ! Yeah ! And we're gonna jump off a bridge ! .. just kidding... unless......... Go to http://www.softwarefreedomday.org/teams/america/Canada and see if we can engage some like minded Canadians, with a bit of energy and imagination. Who's on the local team ? djp (that's one) linuxcaffe can provide; meeting space web space coffee a projector a ten foot inflatable Tux local experts/ enthusiasts word-of-mouth and..uhh.. did I mention coffee ? >over< -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca/sfd 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 17:28:40 2006 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 13:28:40 -0400 Subject: MS debuts voice recognition software In-Reply-To: <2274b9c30609050849y2d8c1897x69643ce74c6f076-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <2274b9c30609050849y2d8c1897x69643ce74c6f076@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44FD7B88.10133.DA4267@sciguy.vex.net> On 5 Sep 2006 at 11:49, Kyle O'Donnell wrote: > teehee > > http://www.break.com/movies/microsoft_test_fails.html > > --kyleo Reminds me of one other weakness of voice software; its relative intolerance of voice inflection. Here I am *singing* "Puff the Magic Dragon" into my MS Voice Recognition software: Puff the Magic Dragon, by Peter Paul and Mary (hatchet job by gatesware) But half the magic dragon in the NAIA the C. N. frolicked in VRML is in the land called Hondo team Lee told to keep a poet loan that rascal puff the bottom strings and sealing wax and all the fancy stuff oh to get the FAA would trample on a boat with a load CEO Jackie Kemp to look out perched on Pope's gigantic tale no bowl canes and princes and what about when and they came and pirate ships would lower their flags one offer or download is now a month old CHORUS: puff the magic dragon they buy this the aunt frolicked in the autumn is standalone called home only e-mail OLAP of the magic dragon live by the C. for all of the a and B. are two man stendhal and called: and E. :-) Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 17:33:34 2006 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 13:33:34 -0400 Subject: MS debuts voice recognition software In-Reply-To: References: <2274b9c30609050849y2d8c1897x69643ce74c6f076@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44FD7CAE.909.DEC151@sciguy.vex.net> On 5 Sep 2006 at 12:09, Alex Beamish wrote: > > On 9/5/06, Kyle O'Donnell wrote: > teehee > > http://www.break.com/movies/microsoft_test_fails.html > > --kyleo > I couldn't find a link on the break.com web page to start the video .. but > the youtube.com link appears to work fine: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmkQ1Nc9UYQ > break.com wants you to pick a format then click "Save" before it sends you to the video. I don't recall what exactly it is I was "saving". But the page it sends you to loads the video without further delay. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 17:35:06 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 13:35:06 -0400 Subject: Gnome issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1157477706.804.29.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Tue, 2006-09-05 at 18:48 +0300, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > A couple of hours ago, I installed Oracle 10g on a RHE3, following > documentation to the letter. After installation, all was well untill I > logged out. Then logging in as user oracle fails. Xfree86 works well, > but gnome fails, leaving me with a dark desktop and a pop up with the > error message below > > "your session only lasted less than 10 seconds. If you have not > logged out yourself, this could mean that there is installation > problem or that you may be out of diskspace." When I click okay, I am > kicked out of the login session. Check the ~/.profile or ~/.bash_profile of the user that you tried to login as. Make sure that the user's shell is a standard Linux shell (/bin/bash usually) and that it results in a command prompt. > I log in as another user and these are some of the information that I > dug out that I assume may be helpful. > > (nautilus:7307): Eel-WARNING **: GConf error: > Failed to contact configuration server; some possible causes are > that you need to enable TCP/IP networking for ORBit, or you have stale > NFS locks due to a system crash. See > http://www.gnome.org/projects/gconf/ for information. (Details - 1: > IOR file '/home/oracle/.gconfd/lock/ior' not opened successfully, no > gconfd located: No such file or directory 2: IOR file > '/home/oracle/.gconfd/lock/ior' not opened successfully, no gconfd > located: No such file or directory) > > > [root at theonion root]# ls -ld /home/oracle/ > drwxrwxrwx 18 oracle oinstall 4096 Sep 5 17:22 /home/oracle/ > [root at theonion root]# df /home/oracle/ > Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on > /dev/hda2 36859304 6736952 28249980 20% / > > What could be the issue? I am sure its related to oracle installation > as it affect only one user and it started after installing the said > application. Is there anybody who has seen this problem in the past? > Is there a way of starting oracle without logging in as user oracle? Use the "switch user" command: "su - oracle" if that gives you a problem try "su oracle". You could also try to login to a text console (press Ctrl-Alt-F1) as oracle. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 12:54:17 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 13:54:17 +0100 Subject: MS debuts voice recognition software In-Reply-To: <44FD7B88.10133.DA4267-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <44FD7B88.10133.DA4267@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <44FD7379.40606@utoronto.ca> Paul King wrote: > On 5 Sep 2006 at 11:49, Kyle O'Donnell wrote: > >> teehee >> >> http://www.break.com/movies/microsoft_test_fails.html >> >> --kyleo > > Reminds me of one other weakness of voice software; its relative > intolerance of voice inflection. Here I am *singing* "Puff the Magic > Dragon" into my MS Voice Recognition software: > > Puff the Magic Dragon, by Peter Paul and Mary > (hatchet job by gatesware) > > But half the magic dragon in the NAIA the C. > N. frolicked in VRML is in the land called Hondo team > Lee told to keep a poet loan that rascal puff > the bottom strings and sealing wax > and all the fancy stuff oh > > to get the FAA would trample on a boat with a load CEO > Jackie Kemp to look out perched on Pope's gigantic tale > no bowl canes and princes and what about when and they came > and pirate ships would lower their flags one offer or download > is now a month old > > CHORUS: > > puff the magic dragon they buy this the > aunt frolicked in the autumn is standalone called home only e-mail > OLAP of the magic dragon live by the C. > for all of the a and B. are two man stendhal and called: and E. Hey so that's how spammers generate their seemingly legitimate text accompanying the embedded virus laden jpg for viagra. Hmm :p -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 20:51:14 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 16:51:14 -0400 Subject: US Supreme Court to hear "sw patents vs open source" case In-Reply-To: <44FDA05A.8000204-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <44FDA05A.8000204@telly.org> Message-ID: On 9/5/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > I'm surprised Groklaw hasn't picked it up yet. > > http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=192501175 It was mentioned a while back in an off-topic post: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=200608241141557#c473900 .. but PJ hasn't written a full-blown article about it that I can see. She is, no doubt, plugged into what the EFF is up to, including this case, so I'm sure she's aware of the case. Right now, I think more attention is focussed on SCO's upcoming quarterly conference call after the markets close tomorrow. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 21:14:49 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 17:14:49 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <44FB9900.30203-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060903172931.36904.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157322583.4921.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB684A.6020907@execulink.com> <44FB6941.60007@rogers.com> <44FB8663.5010306@execulink.com> <1157337485.3877.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB9900.30203@telly.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990609051414y6dc6f0bal295c656aa5984946@mail.gmail.com> On 9/3/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > The general approach in the world of FOSS is to make the best possible > software possible, regardless of the progress of any particular brand X. > I heartily advise folks here to read interviews with Linus Torvalds to > see how irrelevant Microsoft can be to the development process. It seems to be that most FOSS is done to scratch an itch, and only the serious developers begin to think about their audience, and donate their time to the public by making their software "the best it can be". These are the hero developers which have made Linux etc. so popular. A whole lot of software is "complete crap" to everyone but a select few, because it fulfills a niche and was not expanded (which would be "bloat" to some). And so without that expansion it has not been given the chance rise to achieve more of its potential. I've also seen cases where the software was intentionally hobbled because what could be considered "its potential" remains outside the scope (and funding) of the project. Mediawiki is my big example for that one. Add security? No, that's not the wiki way! And you're right.. from what I've seen, most of the outside world is entirely irrelevant to members of a hero development team. Some of them seem to only surface when they need to wrestle with strange things.. like including proprietary binaries in their distribution, or codec issues. These hero devs just keep having fun doing what they do, and the rest of us get to reap the rewards of their efforts. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 23:27:58 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 19:27:58 -0400 Subject: Software Freedom Day; the local team In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <61e9e2b10609051627i3c7d20deo28b7960e1ea2f47@mail.gmail.com> On 9/5/06, David J Patrick wrote: > Ahhh ! Our sweet summer of 2006 seems to have ended like it was on a > switch. Back to school/ work, rake some leaves, think about Halloween > costumes and HEY ! Here comes Software Freedom Day ! > www.softwarefreedomday.org Arrrgh... I am not free on the 16th to come to 'Software Freedom Day'! But I will be sure on that day to burn and distribute a few Live-CDs to spread the good word... Great posting David! -- Daniel Wayne Armstrong :: build it yourself biology http://biohackery.com :: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 23:41:58 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:41:58 -0400 Subject: Software Freedom Day; the local team In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10609051627i3c7d20deo28b7960e1ea2f47-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10609051627i3c7d20deo28b7960e1ea2f47@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44FE0B46.2090506@rogers.com> Daniel Armstrong wrote: > On 9/5/06, David J Patrick wrote: >> Ahhh ! Our sweet summer of 2006 seems to have ended like it was on a >> switch. Back to school/ work, rake some leaves, think about Halloween >> costumes and HEY ! Here comes Software Freedom Day ! >> www.softwarefreedomday.org > > Arrrgh... I am not free on the 16th to come to 'Software Freedom Day'! > But I will be sure on that day to burn and distribute a few Live-CDs > to spread the good word... > > Great posting David! > You can also make up some CDs with the Windows versions of OpenOffice, Seamonkey, Firefox, Java etc. and include a copy of Word Viewer, to help those who aren't quite ready for Linux, to start their move from MS. The Word Viewer allows them to see that their Writer docs work fine in Word. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From alain.maisonneuve_lists-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 6 15:14:22 2006 From: alain.maisonneuve_lists-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA at public.gmane.org (alain.maisonneuve_lists-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 11:14:22 -0400 Subject: Toronto Hydro Wifi Message-ID: <20060906111422.m8faj8sf0i4go0c8@webmail.swiftpenguin.com> So i saw on the news that this has been deployed today and will be free for 6 mths. Coverage is from Jarvis to Spadina and Front to Bloor. Has anyone tried it? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 6 15:43:53 2006 From: erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Erebus) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 15:43:53 +0000 Subject: Toronto Hydro Wifi In-Reply-To: <20060906111422.m8faj8sf0i4go0c8-2RFepEojUI1BfbfP7qimxQ7GUfgVobmE@public.gmane.org> References: <20060906111422.m8faj8sf0i4go0c8@webmail.swiftpenguin.com> Message-ID: <44FEECB9.3080203@rogers.com> alain.maisonneuve_lists-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA at public.gmane.org wrote: > So i saw on the news that this has been deployed today and will be free for 6 > mths. Coverage is from Jarvis to Spadina and Front to Bloor. > > Has anyone tried it? > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > > And what kind of hardware are they using on those lightpoles? (as usual I'm wondering brand and type) Frank -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 6 16:49:27 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 12:49:27 -0400 Subject: Identifying disks, drives and network mounts Message-ID: <44FEFC17.1070706@alteeve.com> Hi all, I have been struggling with this problem for a couple of years now (yes, really!) and have tried a couple different solutions that were never as robust as I would like. So I am hoping some brainiac here might have an idea! :) I need a way to look at a partition, be it a local, USB/Firewire-connected, SCSI, network or other disk and say "you are this particular device". - I can't rely on block paths because only IDE/SATA disks are (somewhat) static. - I can't rely on the drive's serial number because disks connected via USB/Firewire(?) return the USB-IDE/SATA's ASIC serial number and that could cause problems with carriers with swappable carriers. - I can't rely on 'file -s /dev/xx/' because it only returns serial numbers for locally connected drives with MS formatting. - I can't rely on 'blkid' because it doesn't seem to be on non-Linux (ie: BSD, Solaris) systems. I have a couple ideas, but they have problems (maybe someone could help me with). - If I could reliably get a unique ID (serial number, UUID, etc) for a given partition I'd be happy. 'blkid' does this somehow, so I know it's possible. - I could "sign" partitions using a small text file and generate my own serial numbers. The problem here is trusting that I would have permissions to do so. This is a backup program so I suspect people would likely mount remote network shares read-only, which would prevent me from writing this file. Any ideas (or corrections to my assumptions) would be greatly appreciated! I realize I may need to settle on a combination of solutions, but I'd like to keep that to a minimum, too. Thanks muchly!! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 6 18:50:01 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 14:50:01 -0400 Subject: Identifying disks, drives and network mounts In-Reply-To: <44FEFC17.1070706-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44FEFC17.1070706@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1157568601.804.175.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Wed, 2006-09-06 at 12:49 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I have been struggling with this problem for a couple of years now > (yes, really!) and have tried a couple different solutions that were > never as robust as I would like. So I am hoping some brainiac here might > have an idea! :) ... > Any ideas (or corrections to my assumptions) would be greatly > appreciated! I realize I may need to settle on a combination of > solutions, but I'd like to keep that to a minimum, too. This is a problem that has really only surfaced relatively recently (last 10 years). Most new file systems and volume managers should support some form of unique ID. I think you are not going to find a single solution. You've already identified the ext2/3 UUID from blkid. If you are dealing with LVM volumes you could use the UUIDs there. (vgdisplay or lvdisplay.) You may just have to find UUIDs in other file systems. Failing that the hidden file is a good idea, although like you said, not reliable. Finally you could use fs data like file system type, sizes, creation date, etc to come up with a pseudo unique ID. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From zhunt-KdxWn004MjY at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 6 20:14:33 2006 From: zhunt-KdxWn004MjY at public.gmane.org (Zoltan) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 15:14:33 -0500 Subject: Toronto Hydro Wifi In-Reply-To: <20060906111422.m8faj8sf0i4go0c8-2RFepEojUI1BfbfP7qimxQ7GUfgVobmE@public.gmane.org> References: <20060906111422.m8faj8sf0i4go0c8@webmail.swiftpenguin.com> Message-ID: <44FF2C29.2020209@zee4.com> alain.maisonneuve_lists-QX23z+6opsUOxlH4FaG5hA at public.gmane.org wrote: > So i saw on the news that this has been deployed today and will be free for 6 > mths. Coverage is from Jarvis to Spadina and Front to Bloor. > > Has anyone tried it? > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > > > > > I gave it try from my apartment which is right on Spadina, but no luck. I'm about 10 stories up though, so maybe it works better nearer to street-level. Zoltan -- www.YYZTech.ca Toronto talks tech. www.Dine.TO Toronto's premier restaurant search engine. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 6 20:10:54 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 16:10:54 -0400 Subject: OT: [HW] Bad blocks on my hard drive] In-Reply-To: <44F5C68E.1030906-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <44F5C68E.1030906@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <20060906201054.GF13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 01:10:38PM -0400, Meng Cheah wrote: > I recently bought a Maxtor 250G hard drive. > I've been using it for a few months with no problems. > > I needed to use the remaining 150G as hda4, > I partitioned it and ran "sudo mkfs.ext3 -cjv /dev/hda4". > > It showed: > mke2fs 1.37 (21-Mar-2005) > Filesystem label= > OS type: Linux > Block size=4096 (log=2) > Fragment size=4096 (log=2) > 18317312 inodes, 36624183 blocks > 1831209 blocks (5.00%) reserved for the super user > First data block=0 > 1118 block groups > 32768 blocks per group, 32768 fragments per group > 16384 inodes per group > Superblock backups stored on blocks: > 32768, 98304, 163840, 229376, 294912, 819200, 884736, 1605632, > 2654208, > 4096000, 7962624, 11239424, 20480000, 23887872 > > Running command: badblocks -b 4096 -s /dev/hda4 36624183 > Checking for bad blocks (read-only test): done 183 The position of the '183' is very odd and not at all like the other parts of the output. I have no idea what that is. > Writing inode tables: done > Creating journal (8192 blocks): done > Writing superblocks and filesystem accounting information: done > > This filesystem will be automatically checked every 39 mounts or > 180 days, whichever comes first. Use tune2fs -c or -i to override. > > Does this mean there are 183 bad blocks out of 36624183? Not sure. You can check if 'tune2fs -l /dev/hda4' has any more detail on things. None of my disks have any bad blocks. > Is this acceptable? If it actually has bad blocks, then no it isn't. A modern disk should not show bad blocks. It should remap them automatically. Of course to remap them you have to actually write to the sector in question. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 6 20:26:18 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 16:26:18 -0400 Subject: asus a7v8x In-Reply-To: <44F62856.308-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g@public.gmane.org> References: <20060829223518.5710.qmail@web50611.mail.yahoo.com> <44F62856.308@mineallmeyn.com> Message-ID: <20060906202618.GG13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 08:07:50PM -0400, Oliver Meyn wrote: > Arpad Toth wrote: > >hi lads, > > > >I am looking for a working asus socket A type mobo, > >must support DDR, the one a7v8x is just died > >here....anyone has kinda similar/same? > > > >tks, > > > >RP > > > Hi Arpad, > > I have a like new in box (came out to test a cpu, went back in) A7N8X-E. > This chipset was probably the best socket A of them all, supports ddr, > has onboard audio and dual nics. You can have it for $80, or less if > you insist. I'm in the beaches. They are excellent boards. Support every socket A cpu made as far as I can tell, and DDR ram up to 200MHz (well unless you want to overclock it). I got one of them a while ago, and it is doing a great job running my mythtv box. My work desktop runs the same board too as does my father's machine. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 6 21:20:30 2006 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Mike Oliver) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 14:20:30 -0700 Subject: OT: [HW] Bad blocks on my hard drive] In-Reply-To: <20060906201054.GF13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <44F5C68E.1030906@pppoe.ca> <20060906201054.GF13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <44FF3B9E.8060609@mathstat.yorku.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 01:10:38PM -0400, Meng Cheah wrote: > >>I recently bought a Maxtor 250G hard drive. >>I've been using it for a few months with no problems. >> >>I needed to use the remaining 150G as hda4, >>I partitioned it and ran "sudo mkfs.ext3 -cjv /dev/hda4". >> >>It showed: >>mke2fs 1.37 (21-Mar-2005) >>Filesystem label= >>OS type: Linux >>Block size=4096 (log=2) >>Fragment size=4096 (log=2) >>18317312 inodes, 36624183 blocks >>1831209 blocks (5.00%) reserved for the super user >>First data block=0 >>1118 block groups >>32768 blocks per group, 32768 fragments per group >>16384 inodes per group >>Superblock backups stored on blocks: >> 32768, 98304, 163840, 229376, 294912, 819200, 884736, 1605632, >>2654208, >> 4096000, 7962624, 11239424, 20480000, 23887872 >> >>Running command: badblocks -b 4096 -s /dev/hda4 36624183 >>Checking for bad blocks (read-only test): done 183 > > > The position of the '183' is very odd and not at all like the other > parts of the output. I have no idea what that is. Ooh! Ooh! I know! Pick me! This comes from the progress meter of the test. From time to time it prints the block it's currently looking at, and does a carriage return without linefeed to do it again. For some reason, when it prints "done", it erases some of the number, but not all of it. So the 183 is simply the last three digits of the number of blocks, which is 36624183. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 6 22:09:59 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 18:09:59 -0400 Subject: using sendmail without the service running Message-ID: I used to know how to do this, but can't find it anymore. There is a way to configure sendmail to send mail through a remote smtp server without first queuing it locally. Does anyone know the secret incantation ? Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From dmortondc-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 6 22:33:56 2006 From: dmortondc-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (dave morton) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 18:33:56 -0400 Subject: off topicthe home of tomorrow? Message-ID: we are doing a major renovation this winter. gazing into your crystal balls, i am sure most would agree that wireless in some form or another, will be the future in homes (for streaming etc.), however, does anyone have any thoughts on what might be useful to include in our new house's hard-wiring? i can envision a day when low voltage wiring will be the norm for lights etc but what about 'wiring' (fibre, cat5 etc) in the home of the near future? is gigabit ethernet going to stay within the wires or will it become just another part of the radio spectrum as soon as bandwith glitches are cleared up? since we have the opportunity to rewire from scratch, it seems a good time to consider what should be sticking out of the electrical boxes as the wiring goes in. perhaps nothing more than cat5 cable will be handy for most near-future needs...i don't know i am pretty typical of most of us in this group, everything is hybrid: ADSL, wired linux servers, wifi debian laptops, bluetooth for blackberry , imac hardwired to a printer but remote-controlled, rogers cable, wirefree phones etc, etc, etc. for sure... all this stuff will be connected differently in just a few years the question is, can i hedge my bets on any coming trend(s)? dave _________________________________________________________________ Back to school shopping is as easy as 1-2-3 http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca/content/shp/?ctId=493,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=081803 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 6 23:28:20 2006 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 19:28:20 -0400 Subject: OT: [HW] Bad blocks on my hard drive] In-Reply-To: <44FF3B9E.8060609-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <44F5C68E.1030906@pppoe.ca> <20060906201054.GF13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <44FF3B9E.8060609@mathstat.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <44FF5994.50201@pppoe.ca> Mike Oliver wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 01:10:38PM -0400, Meng Cheah wrote: >> >>> I recently bought a Maxtor 250G hard drive. >>> I've been using it for a few months with no problems. >>> >>> I needed to use the remaining 150G as hda4, >>> I partitioned it and ran "sudo mkfs.ext3 -cjv /dev/hda4". >>> >>> It showed: >>> mke2fs 1.37 (21-Mar-2005) >>> Filesystem label= >>> OS type: Linux >>> Block size=4096 (log=2) >>> Fragment size=4096 (log=2) >>> 18317312 inodes, 36624183 blocks >>> 1831209 blocks (5.00%) reserved for the super user >>> First data block=0 >>> 1118 block groups >>> 32768 blocks per group, 32768 fragments per group >>> 16384 inodes per group >>> Superblock backups stored on blocks: >>> 32768, 98304, 163840, 229376, 294912, 819200, 884736, 1605632, >>> 2654208, >>> 4096000, 7962624, 11239424, 20480000, 23887872 >>> >>> Running command: badblocks -b 4096 -s /dev/hda4 36624183 >>> Checking for bad blocks (read-only test): >>> done 183 >> >> >> >> The position of the '183' is very odd and not at all like the other >> parts of the output. I have no idea what that is. > > > > Ooh! Ooh! I know! Pick me! > > This comes from the progress meter of the test. From time to time > it prints the block it's currently looking at, and does a carriage > return without linefeed to do it again. For some reason, when it prints > "done", it erases some of the number, but not all of it. > > So the 183 is simply the last three digits of the number of blocks, > which is 36624183. Greetings, masters :-) While waiting for responses since my original posting, I contacted Maxtor Support and they are sending me a replacement. Then after a little reading and thinking, I ran "tune2fs -l /dev/hda4". There was no mention of bad blocks. I also ran "e2fsck -ccv /dev/hda4". "sudo e2fsck -ccv /dev/hda4 Password: e2fsck 1.37 (21-Mar-2005) Checking for bad blocks (non-destructive read-write test) Testing with random pattern: done 183 0 bad blocks ..." Out of curiousity, I ran "e2fsck -ccv /dev/hda3". "sudo e2fsck -ccv /dev/hda3 e2fsck 1.37 (21-Mar-2005) Checking for bad blocks (non-destructive read-write test) Testing with random pattern: done 400 0 bad blocks ..." I began to suspect false positives and was waiting for the replacement drive to arrive to check if it indeed had bad blocks. Turns out that I did not understand the "183" or "400". You're right, Mike. /dev/hda3 has "Block count: 12209400" so "Testing with random pattern: done 400" Thanks again, Lennart and Mike, for the help and elucidation :-) BTW I bought the drive at PC Village on Yonge, near Bloor. When I contacted them, they cheerfully referred me to Maxtor Support and advised me to ask for advance service, so that Maxtor would send me a drive in advance. Maxtor Support wanted me to run their Windows-based diagnostics. When I explained that I had 4 partitions, 1 Windows, 3 Linux and nowhere to store the data while troubleshooting, they told me that they would be sending me a drive. I could send them back my drive upon receipt of the replacement drive. No hassles. All they wanted was the serial # for identification of the drive and my credit card # for advance service. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 00:08:34 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 20:08:34 -0400 Subject: using sendmail without the service running In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1157587714.7721.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-09-06 at 18:09 -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > I used to know how to do this, but can't find it anymore. > I don't think > There is a way to configure sendmail to send mail through a remote > smtp server without first queuing it locally. Does anyone know the > secret incantation ? If you use sendmail I don't think that you'll find a "don't queue" option. I've never looked but sendmail is meant for store-and-forward. You need to find an SMTP client for Linux. There may be an elm or pine or mutt setup that may achieve this for this if you want to set it up. SMTP clients are pretty simple so I suspect you should be able to find one that does just what you want. A small perl script would do the job. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 00:17:54 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 20:17:54 -0400 Subject: using sendmail without the service running In-Reply-To: <1157587714.7721.16.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1157587714.7721.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <090E3D33-17E9-4D37-9C79-9296152CD8E7@visibleassets.com> John, I've done it before, I just don't remember how... remember sendmail is also an smtp client. --dc-- On 6-Sep-06, at 8:08 PM, John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Wed, 2006-09-06 at 18:09 -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: >> I used to know how to do this, but can't find it anymore. >> I don't think >> There is a way to configure sendmail to send mail through a remote >> smtp server without first queuing it locally. Does anyone know the >> secret incantation ? > > If you use sendmail I don't think that you'll find a "don't queue" > option. I've never looked but sendmail is meant for store-and-forward. > > You need to find an SMTP client for Linux. There may be an elm or pine > or mutt setup that may achieve this for this if you want to set it up. > SMTP clients are pretty simple so I suspect you should be able to find > one that does just what you want. A small perl script would do the > job. > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 00:36:05 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 19:36:05 -0500 Subject: off topicthe home of tomorrow? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e55af990609061736i23720f82m2d02d45c91a68a4b@mail.gmail.com> On 9/6/06, dave morton wrote: > i can envision a day when low voltage wiring will be the norm for lights etc > but what > about 'wiring' (fibre, cat5 etc) in the home of the near future? is gigabit > ethernet going to stay within the wires or will it become just another part > of the radio spectrum as soon as bandwith glitches are cleared up? Unless you do fancy networking (server / thin client stuff) then the newer wireless stuff which has been coming out will suit most needs. Heck, I do a bit of searching and find references to 400Mbit wireless.. There ought to be a technique or material or something which can be set into the structure of the place to let you fish new cable through at a later date.. perhaps that's your best bet for planning.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 01:15:21 2006 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 21:15:21 -0400 Subject: off topicthe home of tomorrow? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44FF72A9.5080202@golden.net> dave morton wrote: > we are doing a major renovation this winter. > > gazing into your crystal balls, i am sure most would agree that > wireless in some form or another, will be the future in homes (for > streaming etc.), however, does anyone have any thoughts on what might > be useful to include in our new house's hard-wiring? > > i can envision a day when low voltage wiring will be the norm for > lights etc but what > about 'wiring' (fibre, cat5 etc) in the home of the near future? is > gigabit ethernet going to stay within the wires or will it become just > another part of the radio spectrum as soon as bandwith glitches are > cleared up? > > since we have the opportunity to rewire from scratch, it seems a good > time to consider what should be sticking out of the electrical boxes > as the wiring goes in. perhaps nothing more than cat5 cable will be > handy for most near-future needs...i don't know > > i am pretty typical of most of us in this group, everything is hybrid: > ADSL, wired linux servers, wifi debian laptops, bluetooth for > blackberry , imac hardwired to a printer but remote-controlled, rogers > cable, wirefree phones etc, etc, etc. > > for sure... all this stuff will be connected differently in just a few > years > > the question is, can i hedge my bets on any coming trend(s)? > > dave After just finishing hard wiring my basement and future office / theater with Cat 5 (upper house is already) , I felt that if I could have made a conduit to run wiring it would have made more sense. Who knows what tomorrow brings. Keep in mind what may be bleeding edge may get easily replace by a smarter technology. My Advice is give yourself options. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 01:35:06 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 21:35:06 -0400 Subject: off topicthe home of tomorrow? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 9/6/06, dave morton wrote: > we are doing a major renovation this winter. > > gazing into your crystal balls, i am sure most would agree that wireless in > some form or another, will be the future in homes (for streaming etc.), > however, does anyone have any thoughts on what might be useful to include in > our new house's hard-wiring? At both the caffe, and in the little bungalow we call home, I installed cable trough, end to end. I still giggle every time I have to add or change wiring, thinking about what a pain it would have been had I buried it. -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 01:38:22 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 21:38:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: off topicthe home of tomorrow? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060907013823.88696.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- dave morton wrote: > we are doing a major renovation this winter. > > gazing into your crystal balls, i am sure most would > agree that wireless in > some form or another, will be the future in homes > (for streaming etc.), > however, does anyone have any thoughts on what might > be useful to include in > our new house's hard-wiring? I last seriously looked at the question of home networking a few years ago when I pulled Cat 5 cable from a small 19" rack in the basement to several places in the house (this being a house that was built in the 1920's). One key thing I did do was to make sure that any cable run that was a TOTAL pain to do first time out will not be a pain to replace. Most of the basement in my place is unfinished, but there is a finished den. The cable run into that den was a SERIOUS PAIN to do, but when I did it, I put in a large heavy duty conduit pipe out to an unfinished part of the basement (where the run to the 19" rack is painless). If I every want to change from Cat 5 to say optical cable it will be just a case of tape the new cable to the old and pull. Similar story for the run from the basement to the attic, royal pain to do once, it will be easy to replace cables through the conduit I put in place. Besides the "main" basement rack, I did set-up a small hub in the attic (protected inside an old wooden shoe box), which made the cable runs MUCH simpler as it means that every room in the house can be reached either from the attic or basement... I trust you know about the Leviton Quickport wall plates. Basically we are talking plates the same size as standard electrical outlet plates with 1 to 6 holes into which you can snap RJ-45 Cat 5 connectors, RJ-11 (analog phone) connectors, BNC connectors, etc., etc.. They look very slick and I have used them through out my place. Also, when I did this the only colours available for the plates was white and off white, neither of which matched the living room baseboards (dark brown). Easily fixed with a small paint brush and a small bottle of plastic model paint... I still don't totally trust wireless networking, in part due to my holding an amateur radio licence (VE3ZAA). A basic rule in my books has been, get a new radio, see what it can pick up. So, cordless phone calls, oddball radio stations, (like XMJ225, Toronto's most boring radio station, all Toronto weather, all the time) etc., no problem (well, okay, the phone calls I have heard were BORING, but that is beside the point). Basicly encryption or not, I don't want to be transmitting anything I care about, PERIOD. Besides Cat 5 feeding into a switch will give you bandwidth that can blow away a wireless network (yea, okay, so normally your big bottleneck will be the cable/ADSL connection, but still... :-) ). > i can envision a day when low voltage wiring will be > the norm for lights etc > but what > about 'wiring' (fibre, cat5 etc) in the home of the > near future? is gigabit > ethernet going to stay within the wires or will it > become just another part > of the radio spectrum as soon as bandwith glitches > are cleared up? > > since we have the opportunity to rewire from > scratch, it seems a good time > to consider what should be sticking out of the > electrical boxes as the > wiring goes in. perhaps nothing more than cat5 cable > will be handy for most > near-future needs...i don't know > > i am pretty typical of most of us in this group, > everything is hybrid: ADSL, > wired linux servers, wifi debian laptops, bluetooth > for blackberry , imac > hardwired to a printer but remote-controlled, rogers > cable, wirefree phones > etc, etc, etc. > > for sure... all this stuff will be connected > differently in just a few years > > the question is, can i hedge my bets on any coming > trend(s)? Well, my key points: - If doing it first time out is a total pain, make sure re-doing it will be fairly painless. - Make it look good. - Don't trust wireless. Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 02:30:51 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 22:30:51 -0400 Subject: off topicthe home of tomorrow? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1157596251.25949.255.camel@stan64.site> I think its the opposite. What a house 10-20 years from now will have is a bunch of 1920x1080p TV's with 50MB compressed streaming zipping across the house to and from a central media center, or multiple ones. Anything other then this heavy bandwidth media will probably be file transfers that can happen at any speed, the more money you spend the faster it will transfer, i.e. copy a DVD from one computer in the house to another. The absolute demand, at peak, will be a few 50MB HD video feeds and maybe some blue-ray copying, etc. For this you should have gigabit copper (or fiber). I can't see wireless gigabit being all that affordable even 10 years from now. You can't lose decking out gigabit copper, not to mention they will probably have technology that will do 2+GBit over it (if its quality stuff), if they don't already. I've always found wireless to be a waste of time except for the pure portability factor (i.e. pda, wifi phone), otherwise they keep pushing the nic cards in computer, and that is always far above wireless speeds. They have gigahz phones, but of course thats not the data rate but the carrier frequency ... so having said that, a gigabit copper network has the same data throughput as the frequency that the phone is on, so it boggles my mind as to how you would transmit multi-gigabit wireless, its been a while since I was in physics class in school, but isn't that microwave spectrum - a carrier to send gigabits of data? And they will still be discussing, 20 years from now, if a cell phone causes nogg'n cancer, so you gotta figure wired will always have its place. Who knows, maybe network boots will be the thing, and you'll have to download 2GB of data from the home "file repo" upon booting up your computer, what a thought. I'd bet on gigabit wired (or larger wired) home networks all the way for at least another 20-40 years. Look at the CELL puter model too, linking your Sony PS3, fridge, microwave, TV, etc together via fiber optics and having SMP type intercommunication with extremely small latency - again points to a wired future. I can see smart wired houses, with gigabit communication ports on wall jacks and floor panels, with perhaps 50-100 ports spread all over the house, with maybe at least one or two on ever wall of almost every room in the house, which then would make it likely to be shared with a 120v outlet, as far as the jack lay out, but you wouldnt try to carry gigabit on the actual 110v copper, but the electrician could at least route them together. Given that most devices that would use the communication, would also use 120v plugs, that makes the whole set up rather convenient and logical. The more i think about it, Sony/IBM/Toshiba's Cell processor "plan", probably doesn't include wireless due to how tightly coupled the Cell processors are to be. I'd say bet against wireless, at least if your going to be a power-user-home. -tl On Wed, 2006-09-06 at 18:33 -0400, dave morton wrote: > we are doing a major renovation this winter. > > gazing into your crystal balls, i am sure most would agree that wireless in > some form or another, will be the future in homes (for streaming etc.), > however, does anyone have any thoughts on what might be useful to include in > our new house's hard-wiring? > > i can envision a day when low voltage wiring will be the norm for lights etc > but what > about 'wiring' (fibre, cat5 etc) in the home of the near future? is gigabit > ethernet going to stay within the wires or will it become just another part > of the radio spectrum as soon as bandwith glitches are cleared up? > > since we have the opportunity to rewire from scratch, it seems a good time > to consider what should be sticking out of the electrical boxes as the > wiring goes in. perhaps nothing more than cat5 cable will be handy for most > near-future needs...i don't know > > i am pretty typical of most of us in this group, everything is hybrid: ADSL, > wired linux servers, wifi debian laptops, bluetooth for blackberry , imac > hardwired to a printer but remote-controlled, rogers cable, wirefree phones > etc, etc, etc. > > for sure... all this stuff will be connected differently in just a few years > > the question is, can i hedge my bets on any coming trend(s)? > > dave > > _________________________________________________________________ > Back to school shopping is as easy as 1-2-3 > http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca/content/shp/?ctId=493,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=081803 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 6 02:39:48 2006 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 22:39:48 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20060905223948.e5283560.hgibson@eol.ca> On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 20:33:03 -0400 (EDT) phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > (Speaking of computer museums, I recall back in the early 80's a visiting > high-school student remarked that the equipment in the Ryerson CS > department would make a fine museum, and that they should simply change > the label on the lab door. This story had wide currency, and suddenly > there was a massive upgrade of the computer labs.) > > P. Peter, I took a C programming course at Ryerson back about ten years ago. I had to go out and find a 5-1/4" floppy drive so that I could work offline. Perhaps the computers I saw were the replacements for the computer museum you saw. I still have the 5-1/4, at least until I find another need for the drive bay. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 03:21:55 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 23:21:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Publishing note... Message-ID: <20060907032155.89704.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> There is a new editor at Tux Magazine if anyone is interested. In an e-mail I got earlier today I gather that Tony Mobily is taking over from Kevin Shockey, effective immediately. No idea as to why the change happened. There do seemed to be a number of writers in our mail list. Besides my own efforts with Tux Magazine (among other places), folks on our list that I know have been published (and at least one place where they have been published) over the last few years include: Ken Burtch - Book "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Sacha Chua - Linux Journal Chris Johnson - Book "Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach" Evan Leibovitch - Tux Magazine William Park - Linux Gazette Further while I know Linux Journal regular Marcel Gagne is (was?) local I am not sure if he is on the list. No doubt I have missed some folks, but still, does raise the question, do we have a large enough group of writers and/or want-a-be writers to set-up some sort of Linux writers group? Just a thought... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 05:07:02 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 01:07:02 -0400 Subject: Identifying disks, drives and network mounts In-Reply-To: <1157568601.804.175.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <44FEFC17.1070706@alteeve.com> <1157568601.804.175.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <44FFA8F6.5060200@alteeve.com> John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Wed, 2006-09-06 at 12:49 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I have been struggling with this problem for a couple of years now >> (yes, really!) and have tried a couple different solutions that were >> never as robust as I would like. So I am hoping some brainiac here might >> have an idea! :) > ... >> Any ideas (or corrections to my assumptions) would be greatly >> appreciated! I realize I may need to settle on a combination of >> solutions, but I'd like to keep that to a minimum, too. > > This is a problem that has really only surfaced relatively recently > (last 10 years). Most new file systems and volume managers should > support some form of unique ID. > > I think you are not going to find a single solution. You've already > identified the ext2/3 UUID from blkid. > > If you are dealing with LVM volumes you could use the UUIDs there. > (vgdisplay or lvdisplay.) > > You may just have to find UUIDs in other file systems. Failing that the > hidden file is a good idea, although like you said, not reliable. > Finally you could use fs data like file system type, sizes, creation > date, etc to come up with a pseudo unique ID. Thanks for the idea! I am afraid I can not figure out how to read/find the partition creation time... That would be a great help if you could give me a pointer on this. Unless I get a better idea, I think what I will settle on is a three-step ID system. The first, and ideal method will be to create/read a 'signature' file that will have a UUID (generated by the perl 'Data::UUID' module). I will also record two other IDs; The second being the UUID returned by 'blkid' when available. Lastly will be an MD5 hash (or something similar) based on as static values as I can dig up (hence why the partition's creation date would be so helpful). An example when this third, least ideal step would be useful would be on NFS/SMB mounted partitions. They aren't examined by 'blkid' so no UUID would be available. Instead I could/would create a hash based on the hostname and share. Obviously this is easily broken, and would only be used as a "last-ditch" effort to ID the partition. I think I will try to find/record all three bits so that, for example, if the signature file was accidentally deleted I could try to match one of the less-ideal methods and try to restore the signature file (with the user confirming the guess). It's a little cumbersome, but lacking a more portable/universal method I can't think of a better way at the moment. Comments (positive or negative!) on this scheme? Any obvious problems or points of failure? Thanks again!! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 05:40:49 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 01:40:49 -0400 Subject: using sendmail without the service running In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060907054049.GA7758@waltdnes.org> On Wed, Sep 06, 2006 at 06:09:59PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote > I used to know how to do this, but can't find it anymore. > > There is a way to configure sendmail to send mail through a remote > smtp server without first queuing it locally. Does anyone know the > secret incantation ? If you simply want a simple send-only client, try ssmtp, which does only one thing, i.e. push email out the door to a smarthost (i.e. an MTA). It's usually your ISP's MTA, but could be any MTA, if you can point it to the proper machine. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 11:27:42 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 07:27:42 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <20060905223948.e5283560.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060905223948.e5283560.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4500022E.1090409@rogers.com> Howard Gibson wrote: > On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 20:33:03 -0400 (EDT) > phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> (Speaking of computer museums, I recall back in the early 80's a visiting >> high-school student remarked that the equipment in the Ryerson CS >> department would make a fine museum, and that they should simply change >> the label on the lab door. This story had wide currency, and suddenly >> there was a massive upgrade of the computer labs.) >> >> P. > > Peter, > > I took a C programming course at Ryerson back about ten years ago. I had to go out and find a 5-1/4" floppy drive so that I could work offline. Perhaps the computers I saw were the replacements for the computer museum you saw. > > I still have the 5-1/4, at least until I find another need for the drive bay. > You're lucky. When I took Fortran, BASIC and Pascal courses there, back in the mid '80s, we couldn't even use floppies. We used an IBM mainframe there and the only way to get the code out, was via print out or dial up access. When I took C at George Brown College in 1995, we could use 3.5" floppies. However, in class we used Turbo C on Windows 3.1, while at home I used Borland C on OS/2, so I had to be careful about variable sizes. For example an int was 16 bits in Borland C, but only 8 in Turbo. On occasion, my code would work fine at home, but crap out in class because I'd overflowed a variable. Also, when I was taking Fortran at Ryerson, I did my homework on a VAX 11/780 at work. That also meant I had to be careful about a few things. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 11:41:16 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 07:41:16 -0400 Subject: off topicthe home of tomorrow? In-Reply-To: <20060907013823.88696.qmail-XddnEKhDJlqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060907013823.88696.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4500055C.3070706@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > Besides the "main" basement rack, I did set-up a small > hub in the attic (protected inside an old wooden shoe > box) Where'd you find wooden shoes? ;-) > I still don't totally trust wireless networking, in > part due to my holding an amateur radio licence > (VE3ZAA). A basic rule in my books has been, get a new > radio, see what it can pick up. So, cordless phone > calls, oddball radio stations, (like XMJ225, Toronto's > most boring radio station, all Toronto weather, all > the time) etc., no problem (well, okay, the phone > calls I have heard were BORING, but that is beside the > point). Basicly encryption or not, I don't want to be > transmitting anything I care about, PERIOD. I have my WiFi outside of my firewall and have to use OpenVPN or SSH to access my network. I also use WEP, for whatever it's worth. BTW, VE3ZU here. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 11:49:32 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 07:49:32 -0400 Subject: off topicthe home of tomorrow? In-Reply-To: <1157596251.25949.255.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1157596251.25949.255.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: <4500074C.4030504@rogers.com> ted leslie wrote: > boggles my mind as to how you would transmit multi-gigabit wireless, > its been a while since I was in physics class in school, but isn't that > microwave spectrum - a carrier to send gigabits of data? And they will > still be discussing, 20 years from now, if a cell phone causes nogg'n > cancer, so you gotta figure wired will always have its place. Who knows, "Microwave" is an arbitrary term, signifying radio frequencies above 1 GHz. This spectrum includes the "PCS" cell phone band, WiFi, many cordless phones etc. Microwaves have not been demonstrated to cause cancer, as they are not ionizing radiation. Ionizing radiation, such as the upper ultraviolet frequencies, X-rays etc., does cause cancer. However, excessive levels of microwave energy can cause other problems, due to heating effects. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 12:06:27 2006 From: rob-3Aypa9sX/B7wvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 08:06:27 -0400 Subject: Publishing note... In-Reply-To: <20060907032155.89704.qmail-2K+iNxKRQwOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060907032155.89704.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200609070806.27976.rob@luckdancing.com> On Wednesday 06 September 2006 23:21, Colin McGregor wrote: > > No doubt I have missed some folks, but still, does Yep...I sold a couple of articles to Newsforge last year. > raise the question, do we have a large enough group of > writers and/or want-a-be writers to set-up some sort > of Linux writers group? Just a thought... I think it;s a good idea. A writers group could be very useful - my experience is that while you can get some useful feedback from editors, they are so busy that they tend to tell you what's wrong with an article rather than being able to work with you how to find out how to do it right. Having a more relaxed type of environment would be good. Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 12:07:19 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 08:07:19 -0400 Subject: using sendmail without the service running In-Reply-To: <20060907054049.GA7758-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060907054049.GA7758@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <69322A0C-9FF2-4AF4-B0B5-E2308670123A@visibleassets.com> Answering my own question in /etc/mail/submit.mc change dnl If you use IPv6 only, change [127.0.0.1] to [IPv6:::1] FEATURE(`msp', `[127.0.0.1]')dnl to FEATURE(`msp', `your smtp server')dnl and shut down sendmail --dc-- On 7-Sep-06, at 1:40 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Wed, Sep 06, 2006 at 06:09:59PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote >> I used to know how to do this, but can't find it anymore. >> >> There is a way to configure sendmail to send mail through a remote >> smtp server without first queuing it locally. Does anyone know the >> secret incantation ? > > If you simply want a simple send-only client, try ssmtp, which does > only one thing, i.e. push email out the door to a smarthost (i.e. an > MTA). It's usually your ISP's MTA, but could be any MTA, if you can > point it to the proper machine. > > -- > Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 > My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 12:47:21 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 08:47:21 -0400 Subject: Software Freedom Day; the local team In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> crickets << -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 13:26:45 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 09:26:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Publishing note... In-Reply-To: <20060907032155.89704.qmail-2K+iNxKRQwOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060907032155.89704.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50173.207.188.88.64.1157635605.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > > Ken Burtch - Book "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" > Sacha Chua - Linux Journal > Chris Johnson - Book "Shell Scripting Recipes: A > Problem-Solution Approach" > Evan Leibovitch - Tux Magazine > William Park - Linux Gazette > > No doubt I have missed some folks, Interesting. With co-author James Gaston I've published several articles in Circuit Cellar magazine, a mix of programming in the Tcl/Tk language and hardware. The most recent publication is in the current September issue of Circuit Cellar: A network analyser using programmable instruments. I'm not sure there is a need for a separate group per se, but it's useful to know about other writers in TLUG. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 13:53:34 2006 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 09:53:34 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <4500022E.1090409-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060905223948.e5283560.hgibson@eol.ca> <4500022E.1090409@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060907095334.bda8d332.hgibson@eol.ca> On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 07:27:42 -0400 James Knott wrote: for the computer museum you saw. > > > > I still have the 5-1/4, at least until I find another need for the drive bay. > > > > You're lucky. When I took Fortran, BASIC and Pascal courses there, back > in the mid '80s, we couldn't even use floppies. We used an IBM > mainframe there and the only way to get the code out, was via print out > or dial up access. > > When I took C at George Brown College in 1995, we could use 3.5" > floppies. However, in class we used Turbo C on Windows 3.1, while at > home I used Borland C on OS/2, so I had to be careful about variable > sizes. For example an int was 16 bits in Borland C, but only 8 in > Turbo. On occasion, my code would work fine at home, but crap out in > class because I'd overflowed a variable. > > Also, when I was taking Fortran at Ryerson, I did my homework on a VAX > 11/780 at work. That also meant I had to be careful about a few things. > > -- James, I graduated from Ryerson in 1982, and I took Fortran, and I may still have some of the punch cards. Unfortunately, I lost the punched tape for my CNC project. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 13:40:45 2006 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 09:40:45 -0400 Subject: Publishing note... In-Reply-To: <20060907032155.89704.qmail-2K+iNxKRQwOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060907032155.89704.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44FFE91D.3760.A564F89@sciguy.vex.net> I would also be interested, although I haven't written in a while. I have been published in The Globe and Mail, and almost all of the now-defunct Candian computer Magazines (the ones we used to get for free). I have also written for the Delphi Informant when it had a print version (now reduced to an online edition). Not much on Linux, however. More on computers, Internet, consumer stuff. I would love to write on Kylix, but since Borland dropped the product years ago, no-one wants to hear about it. Borland was based on WINE, which was its Achilles' heel. I recently pitched the CBC on an idea I have, but it is not really computer- related. Not to say that I am losing interest in Linux, it's just that I haven't found a market, and other things have kept me away from reading the Linux news websites to look for ideas, or reading their magazines. Paul On 6 Sep 2006 at 23:21, Colin McGregor wrote: > There is a new editor at Tux Magazine if anyone is > interested. In an e-mail I got earlier today I gather > that Tony Mobily is taking over from Kevin Shockey, > effective immediately. No idea as to why the change > happened. > > There do seemed to be a number of writers in our mail > list. Besides my own efforts with Tux Magazine (among > other places), folks on our list that I know have been > published (and at least one place where they have been > published) over the last few years include: > > Ken Burtch - Book "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" > Sacha Chua - Linux Journal > Chris Johnson - Book "Shell Scripting Recipes: A > Problem-Solution Approach" > Evan Leibovitch - Tux Magazine > William Park - Linux Gazette > > Further while I know Linux Journal regular Marcel > Gagne is (was?) local I am not sure if he is on the > list. > > No doubt I have missed some folks, but still, does > raise the question, do we have a large enough group of > writers and/or want-a-be writers to set-up some sort > of Linux writers group? Just a thought... > > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 14:15:18 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 10:15:18 -0400 Subject: Identifying disks, drives and network mounts In-Reply-To: <44FFA8F6.5060200-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44FEFC17.1070706@alteeve.com> <1157568601.804.175.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <44FFA8F6.5060200@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1157638518.17614.36.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Thu, 2006-09-07 at 01:07 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Thanks for the idea! > > I am afraid I can not figure out how to read/find the partition > creation time... That would be a great help if you could give me a > pointer on this. I don't think you'll be able to get partition creation times for either x86 partitions or SAN partitions. Other types of block devices have that information available, such as Logical Volumes (use lvdisplay /dev/Volume00/LogVol01). I would suggest you look at file system creation date. For ext2/3 use "tune2fs -l " I suspect that most other modern file systems will have. You may be stuck when it comes to FAT and network file systems though. It's going to vary depending on the file system type. I think you're best bet is to create an easily extensible method of identification. Design in the ones that you can test now and let your users plug in the ones that you don't have access to. Ideally it would be a libexec command that is passed the file system or block device and it returns a UUID. To make it easier for the user write the libexec commands to autodetect as well and provide a program to cycle through the commands looking for a successful detect. This should fit both novice users and pros alike. Since some commands will be generic perhaps the libexec autodetect commands could return a value indicating suitability. Generic commands could return a different value so that the more specific commands are used automatically. This could be layered so that there are more than one signature file option. On Posix file systems a .filename could be used. On FAT they could have hidden and system flags, etc. > Unless I get a better idea, I think what I will settle on is a > three-step ID system. The first, and ideal method will be to create/read > a 'signature' file that will have a UUID (generated by the perl > 'Data::UUID' module). > > I will also record two other IDs; The second being the UUID returned > by 'blkid' when available. Lastly will be an MD5 hash (or something > similar) based on as static values as I can dig up (hence why the > partition's creation date would be so helpful). An example when this > third, least ideal step would be useful would be on NFS/SMB mounted > partitions. They aren't examined by 'blkid' so no UUID would be > available. Instead I could/would create a hash based on the hostname and > share. Obviously this is easily broken, and would only be used as a > "last-ditch" effort to ID the partition. > > I think I will try to find/record all three bits so that, for > example, if the signature file was accidentally deleted I could try to > match one of the less-ideal methods and try to restore the signature > file (with the user confirming the guess). > > It's a little cumbersome, but lacking a more portable/universal > method I can't think of a better way at the moment. > > Comments (positive or negative!) on this scheme? Any obvious problems > or points of failure? -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 04:53:34 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 00:53:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <20060905000936.6895F854EF-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Sep 2006, Dave Mason wrote: > I have a bunch of 7" (yes, 7-inch) double-sided, high density (something > over 1MB per disk) floppies that I want to try to read. I really just > want a dump onto a CD. I can decode the format (UCSD P-System) and extract the > data. These were probably last used 20 years ago, but have been stored > fairly carefully. I don't have much of a budget for this, but I would > really like to read them, if possible. > > Any ideas, offers, or recommendations much appreciated! > > Thanks ../Dave > > (P.S. I know this is kinda off-topic, but I don't know of a > more-knowledgeable Toronto group.) I think Evan is spot on suggesting U-U (http://unixunanimous.org/). Dave if you are not subscribed I'd be happy to forward your email - just say yay or nay. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 6 20:54:58 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 16:54:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: [HW] Bad blocks on my hard drive] In-Reply-To: <20060906201054.GF13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <44F5C68E.1030906@pppoe.ca> <20060906201054.GF13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > If it actually has bad blocks, then no it isn't. A modern disk should > not show bad blocks. It should remap them automatically. Of course to > remap them you have to actually write to the sector in question. Indeed. When a modern drive is manufacturered it is setup with a reservation of space internally to remap. If a drive is failing to remap bad sectors on write it means it has run out of the reserved space. The original poster should assume the drive is not long for this world, get the data off it, and get a new drive. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 6 17:16:43 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 13:16:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Community volunteer project needs help Message-ID: Hi all. We've been involved in a community volunteer project for a while and with too many things on our plate we're hoping someone with a bit of time can assist. The project is mostly done but one bit remains uncompleted. We can't offer this as paid work as we are not getting paid to do this work. We can provide computer and human resources to assist in the completion of the project though, and I am happy to write a reference letter as a representative of this company for someone who puts in a decent amount of work on this project. If this sounds interesting then read on ... The remaining task is actually fairly simple and someone may like to give it a try for the fun of it. We are helping a number of non-profit agencies in providing wireless thin client access to people in Toronto who would otherwise not be able to access computers in their homes. Hardware is available and the servers are setup but someone needs to spend the time to build a live cdrom that will do what we want. The live cdrom will boot on each terminal which will then connect to a server to provide Internet & application access to users. The requirements for the cdrom are fairly straight forward: - Boot as a live cdrom and setup wireless access, an X server and a sound daemon. - Autodetect hardware well as a variety of h/w will be in use - basically we're getting free 2nd hand boxes for the project. - Use suitable wireless security. A prototype based on Debian is running but we need better hardware detection. The current prototype is using X to provide thin client access and is using WPA-PSK security. I'm negotiable on these points, If FreeNX is a better option then let's go for it. I'd even accept WEP instead of WPA to get the project moving forward. The project is stalled due to a lack of human-time. I think that covers the pertinent details well. Anyone interested should just email me. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 5 04:46:52 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 00:46:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Toronto Linux Job Market In-Reply-To: <44FC76B5.3070208-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <44FC76B5.3070208@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Sep 2006, Meng Cheah wrote: > I came across this on craigslist dated August 29, > http://toronto.craigslist.org/sad/200409342.html > Is the job market this bad? No, it isn't. As always the demand is top heavy - there are a definite shortage of people qualified for senior Linux positions while there tend to be quite a lot of people able to go for junior positions. No surprises there really. Linux admin is much more of a markettable skill than it was even 2 years ago. Until recently "pure" Linux positions were fairly rare. Lately they have become much more common as companies are now relying on Linux for core infrastructure much more readily. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 16:21:40 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 12:21:40 -0400 Subject: Publishing note... In-Reply-To: <44FFE91D.3760.A564F89-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060907032155.89704.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44FFE91D.3760.A564F89@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <20060907162140.GA4500@wp.magstar.net> On Thu, Sep 07, 2006 at 09:40:45AM -0400, Paul King wrote: > On 6 Sep 2006 at 23:21, Colin McGregor wrote: > > No doubt I have missed some folks, but still, does raise the > > question, do we have a large enough group of writers and/or > > want-a-be writers to set-up some sort of Linux writers group? Just a > > thought... I don't think our numbers justify a separate group. But, TLUG meeting is as good as any venue to bang our heads together. :-) -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 16:40:32 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 12:40:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Publishing note... In-Reply-To: <20060907162140.GA4500-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060907032155.89704.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <44FFE91D.3760.A564F89@sciguy.vex.net> <20060907162140.GA4500@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <50303.207.188.88.64.1157647232.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > I don't think our numbers justify a separate group. But, TLUG meeting > is as good as any venue to bang our heads together. :-) > A 'writer's table' at the pub, perhaps, analogous to the Writer's Circle at the Algonquin Hotel, where Dorothy Parker used to hang out. Parker was apparently fond of drinking at the Algonquin when she wrote for New Yorker magazine. The editor of said magazine was notoriously stingy. When he found her there, he remonstrated and asked 'Why aren't you at work'? Said Parker: 'Someone else was using the pencil'. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 17:24:06 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 13:24:06 -0400 Subject: Toronto Linux Job Market In-Reply-To: References: <44FC76B5.3070208@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <1157649846.17614.51.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> > No, it isn't. > > As always the demand is top heavy - there are a definite shortage of > people qualified for senior Linux positions while there tend to be quite a > lot of people able to go for junior positions. No surprises there really. > > Linux admin is much more of a markettable skill than it was even 2 years > ago. Until recently "pure" Linux positions were fairly rare. Lately they > have become much more common as companies are now relying on Linux for > core infrastructure much more readily. We have had a hard time over the years finding Linux admins. We need someone and that posting fits it to a 'T'. We are in Waterloo, however. Pretty soon we'll need another. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 17:37:16 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 13:37:16 -0400 Subject: Publishing note... In-Reply-To: <20060907032155.89704.qmail-2K+iNxKRQwOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060907032155.89704.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <450058CC.7010708@telly.org> Colin McGregor wrote: > There is a new editor at Tux Magazine if anyone is interested. In an e-mail I got earlier today I gather > that Tony Mobily is taking over from Kevin Shockey, effective immediately. No idea as to why the change happened. > Gawd, the folks at SSC just don't seem to know what to do with this. > Evan Leibovitch - Tux Magazine > There's a bit more; the Tux Magazine thing was a one-shot lark for which I still haven't been paid. As for other stuff... I'm happy to have encouraged people to migrate from SCO to Linux in 1997, long before the lawsuit: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/2062 Over the years I've done various pieces for an assortment of pubs, including two that I'm fairly proud of which appeared in peer-reviewed journals from IEEE and Harvard Law School. I did roughly 100 columns for ZDNet as its resident open source columnist, until the ZDNet/CNet merge when they purged all columnists and took a more FUD-filled approach to FOSS. http://telly.org/articles-zdnet There's the quarterly piece that I still do for Computing Canada magazine (which later appears in itbusiness.ca -- my last one was http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/en/ComputerCanada/News.asp?id=40040&bSearch=True) And then there's the occasional thing that's self published -- a piece I wrote in 1998, "the four phases of Linux acceptance", still attracts a good share of hits on my website: http://telly.org/4phases So, yeah, I guess you could say that I write from time to time. > Further while I know Linux Journal regular Marcel Gagne is (was?) local I am not sure if he is on the list. > Don't know if he's on the list -- Marcel maintains his own virtial user group at http://www.marcelgagne.com/wftl-lug.html -- but he is local (if you count Mississauga). > No doubt I have missed some folks, Chris Tyler, a CS instructor at Seneca at York, is an author for O'Reilly on Fedora. > but still, does raise the question, do we have a large enough group of writers and/or want-a-be writers to set-up some sort of Linux writers group? Just a thought... > Sounds like a good idea. I would keep it distinct from regular [New]TLUG meetings, though, as the issues and topics are radically different. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 17:57:01 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 13:57:01 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <45005D6D.4050505@telly.org> Robert Brockway wrote: > I think Evan is spot on suggesting U-U (http://unixunanimous.org/). > Dave if you are not subscribed I'd be happy to forward your email - > just say yay or nay. Heh. Dave was one of the original u-u guys, attending meetings and debating Usenet issues back when Linus was in grade school and the FSF was sending out magtapes of Emacs. His UUCP site, 'tmsoft', with which my site telly had a high-speed (ie, Telebit) connection, was IIRC the only node in Toronto (and one of the few anywhere) running Unix on a National Semiconductor 16032 CPU.** My only surprise here was that Dave didn't know u-u was still around. I suspect he knows where to find them. ;-) - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 18:23:37 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 14:23:37 -0400 Subject: Considering a DVD burner In-Reply-To: <44F72CA3.5090402-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <44F72CA3.5090402@uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: <20060907182337.GH13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 02:38:27PM -0400, Tom Watts wrote: > Does anyone have any experience with this NEC drive under Linux: > > http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2271184&sku=N27-1892 > > I'm considering it, but don't want to buy it if it isn't going to work > under Linux. It should work fine. I haven't seen any optical drive that didn't work with linux in a long time. Now by work I mean, you can read and write disks. If you want it fully supported, plextor is the only choice. The one missing feature is firmware updating, which plextors can do under linux, while every other brand (as far as I know) required windows, or dos if you are lucky, to update the firmware on the drive. The reasons to update firmware on a DVD writer is generally to add support for new types of disks, which does happen fairly frequently, although not as often as it used to. So if you have windows for dual boot, then no worry. If not, then you can either just decide to never update the firmware, or move the drive to a windows machine to update it every 6 months or so, whenever new firmware is released. Or you can pay 3 times as much and get the plextor (3 times $40 still isn't that insane). My personal machines all run plextor drives. So far I have only seen one plextor die, and my father used it as a CD player many hours a day while working for 6 years before it died. Seems the 12x drives probably spun a little too fast given they hadn't add the double suspension system yet to dampen vibrations, and audio CDs are often rather uneven. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 19:38:05 2006 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 15:38:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Running 2 website off 1 IP address Message-ID: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel@canuckster.org> Greetings, Is it possible to run 2 websites off 1 IP address, If so is there a faq somewhere that can show me how to do it? Thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 19:32:49 2006 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 15:32:49 -0400 Subject: Running 2 website off 1 IP address In-Reply-To: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: On 9/7/06, Jason Carson wrote: > Greetings, > > Is it possible to run 2 websites off 1 IP address, If so is there a faq > somewhere that can show me how to do it? > This can be done using Name based virtual hosting in Apache. http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/vhosts/name-based.html -- Mark Lane, CET -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 19:33:48 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 15:33:48 -0400 Subject: Running 2 website off 1 IP address In-Reply-To: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <4386c5b20609071233r20d39494w93138edce4c03c3d@mail.gmail.com> Definitely. It's done in Apache using a technique called virtual hosting. Essentially, apache listens on an IP address and port (80), and then you supply the hostnames that it watches for. Each vhost record contains the directory info etc. Docs for 1.3: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/vhosts/ Docs for 2: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/vhosts/mass.html Cheers, Aaron. On 9/7/06, Jason Carson wrote: > Greetings, > > Is it possible to run 2 websites off 1 IP address, If so is there a faq > somewhere that can show me how to do it? > > Thanks > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 19:36:38 2006 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 15:36:38 -0400 Subject: Running 2 website off 1 IP address In-Reply-To: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <20060907193638.E277D7537C@sarg.ryerson.ca> See http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/mod/core.html#namevirtualhost assuming you're running apache. You'll get a bunch more hist from google on "namevirtualhost" ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 19:51:35 2006 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 15:51:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Running 2 website off 1 IP address In-Reply-To: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <3981.192.168.0.96.1157658695.squirrel@canuckster.org> > Greetings, > > Is it possible to run 2 websites off 1 IP address, If so is there a faq > somewhere that can show me how to do it? > > Thanks > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > I am running apache 2 and this is my httpd.conf file but it doesn't seem to work. DocumentRoot "/var/www/localhost/htdocs/canuckster" ServerName canuckster.org allow from all Options +Indexes DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mmorpg ServerName massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org allow from all Options +Indexes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 19:45:43 2006 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 15:45:43 -0400 Subject: database schema visualization tools? Message-ID: <4386c5b20609071245r165b6ec0y6a36341b84d8ac7f@mail.gmail.com> Hi there, I'm looking for an open source package that will allow me to visualize tables in a relational database (mysql in this case, but the database itself is irrelevant). A tool that lets me enter database table names and column names, and then either draw or otherwise indicate relationships between the fields. The result would be a visual schema showing the tables with lines connecting them together. Does anything like this exist? Thanks, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 19:47:27 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 15:47:27 -0400 Subject: Running 2 website off 1 IP address In-Reply-To: <3981.192.168.0.96.1157658695.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel@canuckster.org> <3981.192.168.0.96.1157658695.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <1157658447.17614.87.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Thu, 2006-09-07 at 15:51 -0400, Jason Carson wrote: > I am running apache 2 and this is my httpd.conf file but it doesn't seem > to work. > > > DocumentRoot "/var/www/localhost/htdocs/canuckster" > ServerName canuckster.org > > allow from all > Options +Indexes > > > > > DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mmorpg > ServerName massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org > > allow from all > Options +Indexes > > You need a NameVirtualHost *:80 entry above those two. Also be aware that you need one IP address per SSL service. You don't seem to have any so you should be okay. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 20:06:39 2006 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 16:06:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Running 2 website off 1 IP address In-Reply-To: <1157658447.17614.87.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel@canuckster.org> <3981.192.168.0.96.1157658695.squirrel@canuckster.org> <1157658447.17614.87.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <4021.192.168.0.96.1157659599.squirrel@canuckster.org> ok, My httpd.conf looks like this now NameVirtualHost *:80 DocumentRoot "/var/www/localhost/htdocs/canuckster" ServerName canuckster.org allow from all Options +Indexes DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mmorpg ServerName massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org allow from all Options +Indexes However, only canuckster.org works, massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org doesn't work. > On Thu, 2006-09-07 at 15:51 -0400, Jason Carson wrote: > >> I am running apache 2 and this is my httpd.conf file but it doesn't seem >> to work. >> >> >> DocumentRoot "/var/www/localhost/htdocs/canuckster" >> ServerName canuckster.org >> >> allow from all >> Options +Indexes >> >> >> >> >> DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mmorpg >> ServerName massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org >> >> allow from all >> Options +Indexes >> >> > > > You need a NameVirtualHost *:80 entry above those two. > > Also be aware that you need one IP address per SSL service. You don't > seem to have any so you should be okay. > > -- > John Van Ostrand > Net Direct Inc. > > Chief Technology Officer > 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 > Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 > map > john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org > Ph: 519-883-1172 > ext.5102 > Linux Solutions / IBM > Hardware > Fx: 519-883-8533 > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 20:00:17 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 16:00:17 -0400 Subject: Running 2 website off 1 IP address In-Reply-To: <3981.192.168.0.96.1157658695.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel@canuckster.org> <3981.192.168.0.96.1157658695.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <20060907200017.GA472@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Sep 07, 2006 at 03:51:35PM -0400, Jason Carson wrote: >> Is it possible to run 2 websites off 1 IP address, If so is there a faq >> somewhere that can show me how to do it? >> >I am running apache 2 and this is my httpd.conf file but it doesn't seem >to work. I haven't looked too hard at your config, but remember to restart Apache when you've made a change - something like "/etc/init.d/httpd restart" (or perhaps apache instead of httpd). -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 20:13:34 2006 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 16:13:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Running 2 website off 1 IP address In-Reply-To: <20060907200017.GA472-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel@canuckster.org> <3981.192.168.0.96.1157658695.squirrel@canuckster.org> <20060907200017.GA472@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <4034.192.168.0.96.1157660014.squirrel@canuckster.org> > On Thu, Sep 07, 2006 at 03:51:35PM -0400, Jason Carson wrote: >>> Is it possible to run 2 websites off 1 IP address, If so is there a faq >>> somewhere that can show me how to do it? >>> > >>I am running apache 2 and this is my httpd.conf file but it doesn't seem >>to work. > > I haven't looked too hard at your config, but remember to restart Apache > when you've made a change - something like "/etc/init.d/httpd restart" (or > perhaps apache instead of httpd). > -- > > yours, > > William > > Yeah, I restarted apache (/etc/init.d/apache2 restart) but it still doesn't work. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 20:27:13 2006 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 16:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Running 2 website off 1 IP address In-Reply-To: <4021.192.168.0.96.1157659599.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel@canuckster.org> <3981.192.168.0.96.1157658695.squirrel@canuckster.org> <1157658447.17614.87.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <4021.192.168.0.96.1157659599.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <4085.192.168.0.96.1157660833.squirrel@canuckster.org> > ok, My httpd.conf looks like this now > > NameVirtualHost *:80 > > > DocumentRoot "/var/www/localhost/htdocs/canuckster" > ServerName canuckster.org > > allow from all > Options +Indexes > > > > > DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mmorpg > ServerName massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org > > allow from all > Options +Indexes > > > > However, only canuckster.org works, > massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org doesn't work. Could it be something wrong with my DNS configuration? >> On Thu, 2006-09-07 at 15:51 -0400, Jason Carson wrote: >> >>> I am running apache 2 and this is my httpd.conf file but it doesn't >>> seem >>> to work. >>> >>> >>> DocumentRoot "/var/www/localhost/htdocs/canuckster" >>> ServerName canuckster.org >>> >>> allow from all >>> Options +Indexes >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mmorpg >>> ServerName massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org >>> >>> allow from all >>> Options +Indexes >>> >>> >> >> >> You need a NameVirtualHost *:80 entry above those two. >> >> Also be aware that you need one IP address per SSL service. You don't >> seem to have any so you should be okay. >> >> -- >> John Van Ostrand >> Net Direct Inc. >> >> Chief Technology Officer >> 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 >> Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 >> map >> john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org >> Ph: 519-883-1172 >> ext.5102 >> Linux Solutions / IBM >> Hardware >> Fx: 519-883-8533 >> >> > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 20:33:40 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 16:33:40 -0400 Subject: Running 2 website off 1 IP address In-Reply-To: <4085.192.168.0.96.1157660833.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel@canuckster.org> <3981.192.168.0.96.1157658695.squirrel@canuckster.org> <1157658447.17614.87.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <4021.192.168.0.96.1157659599.squirrel@canuckster.org> <4085.192.168.0.96.1157660833.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <45008224.7050207@telly.org> Jason Carson wrote: >> >> DocumentRoot "/var/www/localhost/htdocs/canuckster" >> ServerName canuckster.org >> >> allow from all >> Options +Indexes >> >> >> >> >> DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mmorpg >> ServerName massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org >> >> allow from all >> Options +Indexes >> >> >> >> However, only canuckster.org works, >> massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org doesn't work. >> Boy, it's been a while. IIRC the system is very precise, so that in the above config http://assivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org will work but http://www.massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org will not. I think you may need to add another line to fix that: [...] DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mmorpg ServerName massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org ServerAlias *.massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org <---- add this allow from all Options +Indexes [...] This may not solve your problem, but it may solve some others down the road. Also, keep in mind that some browsers don't send enough information for the server to know what domain you want, so you might want to check things out with another server -- as well as the apache logs -- before being certain that the config doesn't work. See http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/vhosts/name-based.html for more info. HTH, - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 20:46:31 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 16:46:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: off topicthe home of tomorrow? In-Reply-To: <4500055C.3070706-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4500055C.3070706@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060907204631.94454.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- James Knott wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > > > Besides the "main" basement rack, I did set-up a > small > > hub in the attic (protected inside an old wooden > shoe > > box) > > Where'd you find wooden shoes? ;-) You know those crazy eco-friendly Dutch, biodegrade shoes, and biodegradable packaging :-) . Serious, the wooden box was fairly new (read likely less than 20 years). How it came into the house I don't know (I will blame my brother on that score as he is currently teaching English in South Korea :-) ). Any event when I got the box there was no top to the box, but I fixed that with a thin sheet of Plexiglas. The way in and out of the box (for cables) I did with a conduit connector (makes wrapping holes in order to keep insects out easier). > > I still don't totally trust wireless networking, > in > > part due to my holding an amateur radio licence > > (VE3ZAA). A basic rule in my books has been, get a > new > > radio, see what it can pick up. So, cordless phone > > calls, oddball radio stations, (like XMJ225, > Toronto's > > most boring radio station, all Toronto weather, > all > > the time) etc., no problem (well, okay, the phone > > calls I have heard were BORING, but that is beside > the > > point). Basicly encryption or not, I don't want to > be > > transmitting anything I care about, PERIOD. > > I have my WiFi outside of my firewall and have to > use OpenVPN or SSH to > access my network. I also use WEP, for whatever > it's worth. My key security trick is to keep the WiFi hub/router turned off when I am not using it (which isn't often). > BTW, VE3ZU here. Which qualifications? I have Basic and Advanced (yes, I really ought to sit down and learn Morse, but I haven't yet), and it has been too long since I have been at all active. Basically all my activity was on 2 meters... Colin McGregor VE3ZAA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 20:58:52 2006 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 16:58:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Running 2 website off 1 IP address In-Reply-To: <45008224.7050207-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel@canuckster.org> <3981.192.168.0.96.1157658695.squirrel@canuckster.org> <1157658447.17614.87.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <4021.192.168.0.96.1157659599.squirrel@canuckster.org> <4085.192.168.0.96.1157660833.squirrel@canuckster.org> <45008224.7050207@telly.org> Message-ID: <4117.192.168.0.96.1157662732.squirrel@canuckster.org> > Jason Carson wrote: >>> >>> DocumentRoot "/var/www/localhost/htdocs/canuckster" >>> ServerName canuckster.org >>> >>> allow from all >>> Options +Indexes >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mmorpg >>> ServerName massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org >>> >>> allow from all >>> Options +Indexes >>> >>> >>> >>> However, only canuckster.org works, >>> massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org doesn't work. >>> > Boy, it's been a while. > > IIRC the system is very precise, so that in the above config > http://assivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org will work but > http://www.massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org will not. > I think you may need to add another line to fix that: > > [...] > > DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mmorpg > ServerName massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org > ServerAlias *.massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org <---- > add this > > allow from all > Options +Indexes > > > [...] > > This may not solve your problem, but it may solve some others down the > road. Also, keep in mind that some browsers don't send enough > information for the server to know what domain you want, so you might > want to check things out with another server -- as well as the apache > logs -- before being certain that the config doesn't work. > > See http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/vhosts/name-based.html for more info. > > HTH, > > - Evan No, this didn't help but I will keep it in mind just in case I have problems down the road > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From paul-trWFDORQd8hBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 20:48:51 2006 From: paul-trWFDORQd8hBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Paul Osman) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 16:48:51 -0400 Subject: Running 2 website off 1 IP address In-Reply-To: <4085.192.168.0.96.1157660833.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel@canuckster.org> <3981.192.168.0.96.1157658695.squirrel@canuckster.org> <1157658447.17614.87.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <4021.192.168.0.96.1157659599.squirrel@canuckster.org> <4085.192.168.0.96.1157660833.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: On 7-Sep-06, at 4:27 PM, Jason Carson wrote: >> ok, My httpd.conf looks like this now >> >> NameVirtualHost *:80 >> >> >> DocumentRoot "/var/www/localhost/htdocs/canuckster" >> ServerName canuckster.org >> >> allow from all >> Options +Indexes >> >> >> >> >> DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mmorpg >> ServerName massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org >> >> allow from all >> Options +Indexes >> >> >> >> However, only canuckster.org works, >> massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org doesn't work. > > Could it be something wrong with my DNS configuration? Have you set up an A record for massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org yet? You may be doing this with a hosts file, or an internal DNS server on a LAN, but I noticed that canuckster.org has an A record and the other one doesn't. Additionally, perhaps you could tell us what you see when you access massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org? Do you get the canuckster.org document root? Cheers, -- Paul Osman Freelance Software Developer / Technology Consultant http://www.eval.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 20:50:29 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 16:50:29 -0400 Subject: fsck and raidtools In-Reply-To: <1e55af990609031751u28a1f067yac311ee57e47f2f4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990609031751u28a1f067yac311ee57e47f2f4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060907205029.GI13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Sep 03, 2006 at 07:51:59PM -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > fsck seems to go mental when I try to use it on an md device. Is this > normal? > > # fsck /dev/md0 > fsck 1.39 (29-May-2006) > e2fsck 1.39 (29-May-2006) > The filesystem size (according to the superblock) is 17101184 blocks > The physical size of the device is 17101168 blocks > Either the superblock or the partition table is likely to be corrupt! > Abort? > > Going ahead with the repairs seems to do nothing. This error will > always reappear. > > What's going on? How can I check an md device if fsck always acts like > this? > > It sounds reasonable that I would have to check the (in this case) two > source drives individually. Is that right? It looks more to me like someone did and mkfs on the device, then decided to make it a raid device, and the raid mirrored that original formatting (minus the raid superblock) onto both devices. This means part of the filesystem was overwritten of course by the raid superblock. One must always make a new filesystem after creating a raid, even if it looks like you can actually mount the old filesystem that was on one of the devices before hand. So in short, I believe someone made a mistake while setting up the raid and that the drive now has a slightly corrupted filesystem on it and should be re-mkfs'd to fix it. I have certainly never had fsck fail on an md device before. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 20:53:47 2006 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 16:53:47 -0400 Subject: Running 2 website off 1 IP address In-Reply-To: <45008224.7050207-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45008224.7050207@telly.org> Message-ID: <009601c6d2bf$b79d6590$0405a8c0@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> This idea works on the basis that your browser is sending a "Host: " header that matches the "ServerName" directive. If you are typing somtihing else in your browser other than "http://massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org" You will be redirected to the first site. I assume that you are typing in http://www.massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org In which case it does not match the "ServerName" directive and you are being sent to the default site (the first one) Add the following line after your "ServerName" directive: ServerAlias www.massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org That should do the trick! > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Evan > Leibovitch > Sent: September 7, 2006 4:34 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Running 2 website off 1 IP address > > Jason Carson wrote: > >> > >> DocumentRoot "/var/www/localhost/htdocs/canuckster" > >> ServerName canuckster.org > >> > >> allow from all > >> Options +Indexes > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mmorpg > >> ServerName massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org > >> > >> allow from all > >> Options +Indexes > >> > >> > >> > >> However, only canuckster.org works, > >> massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org doesn't work. > >> > Boy, it's been a while. > > IIRC the system is very precise, so that in the above config > http://assivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org will work but > http://www.massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org will not. > I think you may need to add another line to fix that: > > [...] > > DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mmorpg > ServerName massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org > ServerAlias *.massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org <---- > add this > > allow from all > Options +Indexes > > > [...] > > This may not solve your problem, but it may solve some others down the > road. Also, keep in mind that some browsers don't send enough > information for the server to know what domain you want, so you might > want to check things out with another server -- as well as the apache > logs -- before being certain that the config doesn't work. > > See http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/vhosts/name-based.html for more info. > > HTH, > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 20:58:44 2006 From: lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org (Oliver Meyn) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 16:58:44 -0400 Subject: Running 2 website off 1 IP address In-Reply-To: <3981.192.168.0.96.1157658695.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel@canuckster.org> <3981.192.168.0.96.1157658695.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <45008804.70700@mineallmeyn.com> Jason Carson wrote: > > I am running apache 2 and this is my httpd.conf file but it doesn't seem > to work. > > > DocumentRoot "/var/www/localhost/htdocs/canuckster" > ServerName canuckster.org > > allow from all > Options +Indexes > > > > > DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mmorpg > ServerName massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org > > allow from all > Options +Indexes > > > > Hi, I've always put the real ip instead of the '*'. Might help Oliver -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From paul-trWFDORQd8hBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 20:59:03 2006 From: paul-trWFDORQd8hBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Paul Osman) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 16:59:03 -0400 Subject: Running 2 website off 1 IP address In-Reply-To: <4117.192.168.0.96.1157662732.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel@canuckster.org> <3981.192.168.0.96.1157658695.squirrel@canuckster.org> <1157658447.17614.87.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <4021.192.168.0.96.1157659599.squirrel@canuckster.org> <4085.192.168.0.96.1157660833.squirrel@canuckster.org> <45008224.7050207@telly.org> <4117.192.168.0.96.1157662732.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: On 7-Sep-06, at 4:58 PM, Jason Carson wrote: >> Jason Carson wrote: >>>> >>>> DocumentRoot "/var/www/localhost/htdocs/canuckster" >>>> ServerName canuckster.org >>>> >>>> allow from all >>>> Options +Indexes >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mmorpg >>>> ServerName massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org >>>> >>>> allow from all >>>> Options +Indexes >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> However, only canuckster.org works, >>>> massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org doesn't work. >>>> >> Boy, it's been a while. >> >> IIRC the system is very precise, so that in the above config >> http://assivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org will work but >> http://www.massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org will not. >> I think you may need to add another line to fix that: >> >> [...] >> >> DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mmorpg >> ServerName massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org >> ServerAlias *.massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org >> <---- >> add this >> >> allow from all >> Options +Indexes >> >> >> [...] >> >> This may not solve your problem, but it may solve some others down >> the >> road. Also, keep in mind that some browsers don't send enough >> information for the server to know what domain you want, so you might >> want to check things out with another server -- as well as the apache >> logs -- before being certain that the config doesn't work. >> >> See http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/vhosts/name-based.html for >> more info. >> >> HTH, >> >> - Evan > > No, this didn't help but I will keep it in mind just in case I have > problems down the road It's your DNS configuration. You haven't set anything up for massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org. I just tried adding an entry to my host file and your VirtualHost configuration works. Add an A record or CNAME record for massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org and it will work just fine. Cheers, -- Paul Osman Freelance Software Developer / Technology Consultant http://www.eval.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 21:17:50 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 21:17:50 +0000 Subject: database schema visualization tools? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20609071245r165b6ec0y6a36341b84d8ac7f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20609071245r165b6ec0y6a36341b84d8ac7f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 9/7/06, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi there, > I'm looking for an open source package that will allow me to visualize > tables in a relational database (mysql in this case, but the database > itself is irrelevant). A tool that lets me enter database table names > and column names, and then either draw or otherwise indicate > relationships between the fields. The result would be a visual schema > showing the tables with lines connecting them together. > > Does anything like this exist? DIA has been used for this... There's a package called postgresql_autodoc which transforms DB schemas into diagrams in several formats. It's really quite DB-specific, but it might be possible to take an analagous approach with MySQL(tm), perhaps... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 21:30:59 2006 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 17:30:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DNS Setup In-Reply-To: <4085.192.168.0.96.1157660833.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel@canuckster.org> <3981.192.168.0.96.1157658695.squirrel@canuckster.org> <1157658447.17614.87.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <4021.192.168.0.96.1157659599.squirrel@canuckster.org> <4085.192.168.0.96.1157660833.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <4364.192.168.0.96.1157664659.squirrel@canuckster.org> ok, I think apache2 is configured correctly (Which you can see below), now for my DNS. Does anybody know what I should have with my DNS, or can I send my root password to someone off list so they can configure it for me using either text mode via ssh or Webmin? NameVirtualHost *:80 DocumentRoot "/var/www/localhost/htdocs/canuckster" ServerName canuckster.org allow from all Options +Indexes DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mmorpg ServerName massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org Options +Indexes However, only canuckster.org works, massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org doesn't work. > > Could it be something wrong with my DNS configuration? > > > > >>> On Thu, 2006-09-07 at 15:51 -0400, Jason Carson wrote: >>> >>>> I am running apache 2 and this is my httpd.conf file but it doesn't >>>> seem >>>> to work. >>>> >>>> >>>> DocumentRoot "/var/www/localhost/htdocs/canuckster" >>>> ServerName canuckster.org >>>> >>>> allow from all >>>> Options +Indexes >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mmorpg >>>> ServerName massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org >>>> >>>> allow from all >>>> Options +Indexes >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> You need a NameVirtualHost *:80 entry above those two. >>> >>> Also be aware that you need one IP address per SSL service. You don't >>> seem to have any so you should be okay. >>> >>> -- >>> John Van Ostrand >>> Net Direct Inc. >>> >>> Chief Technology Officer >>> 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 >>> Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 >>> map >>> john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org >>> Ph: 519-883-1172 >>> ext.5102 >>> Linux Solutions / IBM >>> Hardware >>> Fx: 519-883-8533 >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists >> > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 21:38:05 2006 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 17:38:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Running 2 website off 1 IP address In-Reply-To: References: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel@canuckster.org> <3981.192.168.0.96.1157658695.squirrel@canuckster.org> <1157658447.17614.87.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <4021.192.168.0.96.1157659599.squirrel@canuckster.org> <4085.192.168.0.96.1157660833.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <4370.192.168.0.96.1157665085.squirrel@canuckster.org> > > On 7-Sep-06, at 4:27 PM, Jason Carson wrote: > >>> ok, My httpd.conf looks like this now >>> >>> NameVirtualHost *:80 >>> >>> >>> DocumentRoot "/var/www/localhost/htdocs/canuckster" >>> ServerName canuckster.org >>> >>> allow from all >>> Options +Indexes >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mmorpg >>> ServerName massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org >>> >>> allow from all >>> Options +Indexes >>> >>> >>> >>> However, only canuckster.org works, >>> massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org doesn't work. >> >> Could it be something wrong with my DNS configuration? > > Have you set up an A record for > massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org yet? You may be doing > this with a hosts file, or an internal DNS server on a LAN, but I > noticed that canuckster.org has an A record and the other one doesn't. > > Additionally, perhaps you could tell us what you see when you access > massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org? Do you get the > canuckster.org document root? When I access http://massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org it just says The page cannot be displayed, what does it say when you try and access it? > Cheers, > -- > Paul Osman > Freelance Software Developer / Technology Consultant > http://www.eval.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 22:09:23 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:09:23 -0400 Subject: DNS Setup In-Reply-To: <4364.192.168.0.96.1157664659.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel@canuckster.org> <4085.192.168.0.96.1157660833.squirrel@canuckster.org> <4364.192.168.0.96.1157664659.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <200609071809.23711.softquake@gmail.com> On Thursday 07 September 2006 17:30, Jason Carson wrote: > ok, I think apache2 is configured correctly (Which you can see below), now > for my DNS. Does anybody know what I should have with my DNS, or can I > send my root password to someone off list so they can configure it for me > using either text mode via ssh or Webmin? > The web site works. I guess you are using IE from Windows? If so you may want to change these silly Internet Options on your computer so that 1) your browser displays a genuine server response in case of errors and not a message generated by the browser. 2) Make sure that what the browser shows is everytime served from the server and you are not viewing whats in the browsers cache. massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org does not have an entry in DNS. Or at least it did not propagate yet. This is not a matter of giving somebody root access to your computer. You need to have a DNS entry somewhere on a DNS server (perhaps a free one, like zoneedit.com) Do not rather send root password or any password through email. This is a bad practice, exposing you to dangers. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 23:01:38 2006 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 19:01:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DNS Setup In-Reply-To: <4364.192.168.0.96.1157664659.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel@canuckster.org> <3981.192.168.0.96.1157658695.squirrel@canuckster.org> <1157658447.17614.87.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> <4021.192.168.0.96.1157659599.squirrel@canuckster.org> <4085.192.168.0.96.1157660833.squirrel@canuckster.org> <4364.192.168.0.96.1157664659.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <4600.192.168.0.96.1157670098.squirrel@canuckster.org> ok, I have a file in /var/bind called massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org.hosts in this file is the following massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org. IN SOA penguin.canuckster.org. jay.canuckster.org. ( 1157669064 10800 3600 604800 38400 ) massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org. IN NS penguin.canuckster.org. massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org. IN A 66.11.182.5 so do i just have to wait for it to propagate around the internet? > ok, I think apache2 is configured correctly (Which you can see below), now > for my DNS. Does anybody know what I should have with my DNS, or can I > send my root password to someone off list so they can configure it for me > using either text mode via ssh or Webmin? > > > NameVirtualHost *:80 > > > DocumentRoot "/var/www/localhost/htdocs/canuckster" > ServerName canuckster.org > > allow from all > Options +Indexes > > > > > DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mmorpg > ServerName massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org > > Options +Indexes > > > > However, only canuckster.org works, > massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org doesn't work. >> >> Could it be something wrong with my DNS configuration? >> >> >> >> >>>> On Thu, 2006-09-07 at 15:51 -0400, Jason Carson wrote: >>>> >>>>> I am running apache 2 and this is my httpd.conf file but it doesn't >>>>> seem >>>>> to work. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> DocumentRoot "/var/www/localhost/htdocs/canuckster" >>>>> ServerName canuckster.org >>>>> >>>>> allow from all >>>>> Options +Indexes >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> DocumentRoot /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mmorpg >>>>> ServerName massivelymultiplayeronlineroleplayinggames.org >>>>> >>>>> allow from all >>>>> Options +Indexes >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> You need a NameVirtualHost *:80 entry above those two. >>>> >>>> Also be aware that you need one IP address per SSL service. You don't >>>> seem to have any so you should be okay. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John Van Ostrand >>>> Net Direct Inc. >>>> >>>> Chief Technology Officer >>>> 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 >>>> Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 >>>> map >>>> john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org >>>> Ph: 519-883-1172 >>>> ext.5102 >>>> Linux Solutions / IBM >>>> Hardware >>>> Fx: 519-883-8533 >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists >>> >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists >> > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 7 23:41:21 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:41:21 -0500 Subject: fsck and raidtools In-Reply-To: <20060907205029.GI13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990609031751u28a1f067yac311ee57e47f2f4@mail.gmail.com> <20060907205029.GI13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990609071641kb9d5a16v23ca388581cb8bb4@mail.gmail.com> On 9/7/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > It looks more to me like someone did and mkfs on the device, then > decided to make it a raid device, and the raid mirrored that original > formatting (minus the raid superblock) onto both devices. This means > part of the filesystem was overwritten of course by the raid superblock. > One must always make a new filesystem after creating a raid, even if it > looks like you can actually mount the old filesystem that was on one of > the devices before hand. > > So in short, I believe someone made a mistake while setting up the raid > and that the drive now has a slightly corrupted filesystem on it and > should be re-mkfs'd to fix it. I have certainly never had fsck fail on > an md device before. I wondered what was going on and restored from backups and restored the setup to a non-raid state. Now that I understand this I can set it back up the way it was intended. =) Thanks.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 00:04:51 2006 From: mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Marcel Gagne) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 20:04:51 -0400 Subject: Publishing note... In-Reply-To: <20060907032155.89704.qmail-2K+iNxKRQwOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060907032155.89704.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200609072004.53148.mggagne@salmar.com> Hello Colin (and others), On Wednesday 06 September 2006 23:21, Colin McGregor wrote: > > Further while I know Linux Journal regular Marcel > Gagne is (was?) local I am not sure if he is on the > list. Yes, he's still on the list, just terribly quiet running his own WFTL-LUG and, strangely enough, writing [ insert appropriate smiley here ]. /* shameless plug */ Since you've given me an opening, I'd like to point out that my new book, "Moving to Ubuntu Linux" has just been released in the states. It might take a few more days for it to show up in Canada. /* shameless plug */ Take care out there. -- Marcel (Writer and Free Thinker at Large) Gagn? Note: This massagee wos nat speel or gramer-checkered. Mandatory home page reference - http://www.marcelgagne.com/ Author of "Moving to Ubuntu" : Now Available! "Moving to Linux : Kiss the Blue Screen of Death Goodbye!" (1st and 2nd eds) ? "Moving to the Linux Business Desktop" ? "Linux System Administration, A User's Guide" Join the WFTL-LUG : http://www.marcelgagne.com/wftllugform.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 01:02:56 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:02:56 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <20060907095334.bda8d332.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060905223948.e5283560.hgibson@eol.ca> <4500022E.1090409@rogers.com> <20060907095334.bda8d332.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4500C140.6060901@rogers.com> Howard Gibson wrote: > I graduated from Ryerson in 1982, and I took Fortran, and I may still have some of the punch cards. Unfortunately, I lost the punched tape for my CNC project. > I never used punch cards at Ryerson, though the card punches etc., were still there. However, many years ago, I used to maintain and repair punch card and punched tape equipment. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 01:45:33 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:45:33 -0400 Subject: off topicthe home of tomorrow? In-Reply-To: <20060907204631.94454.qmail-57gzaD/7YRGB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060907204631.94454.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4500CB3D.1050004@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: >> BTW, VE3ZU here. > > Which qualifications? I have Basic and Advanced (yes, > I really ought to sit down and learn Morse, but I > haven't yet), and it has been too long since I have > been at all active. Basically all my activity was on 2 > meters... The old Advanced, which required 15 words per minute of code, plus theory and regs. I got my 1st licence in Feb. 1972 and the Advanced 1 year and 3 days later (back in those days you had to operate for a year, before going for the Advanced). No multiple guess back in those days. The written exams were essay type and on the basic license, you also had to draw several schematics and then answer questions about what you'd drawn. Back then, the Basic license also required 10 WPM. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 02:45:04 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 22:45:04 -0400 Subject: Why not Linux? In-Reply-To: <44FCE69C.6000405-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060903172931.36904.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1157322583.4921.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB684A.6020907@execulink.com> <44FB6941.60007@rogers.com> <44FB8663.5010306@execulink.com> <1157337485.3877.4.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <44FB9900.30203@telly.org> <20060905024219.GC24295@lupus.perlwolf.com> <44FCE69C.6000405@telly.org> Message-ID: <1157683504.3872.15.camel@spot1.localhost.com> As John Hall often mentions in his talks about software development... the paradigm changed from developers maintaining software 'on the fly' (circa 1985) to the availability of shrink wrapped product (after 1989 DOS, word processors...). Companies need expect to have a software department/programmer on staff, it's still ok to develop applications. The smallest, simplest 'bulletproof' apps can still do the job without buying 'developer studio' or paying royalties to some proprietary gorilla. People new to Linux need to know about the easiest way to solve their business problems using tools available with various distributions. RickT On Mon, 2006-09-04 at 22:53 -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > They may be incompetent, or too comfortable, or simply scared to death > of the new -- but few managers are malicious. > > Only employees and shareholders in Microsoft, as well as reviewers, > resellers and servicers of its products have true vested interests in > the company's success. The rest "love Microsoft" or "love proprietary", > more often or not, because they're simply adverse to significant change > and are forever looking for excuses and reasons to avoid/deny it. > > - Evan > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 03:06:21 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 23:06:21 -0400 Subject: US Supreme Court to hear "sw patents vs open source" case In-Reply-To: References: <44FDA05A.8000204@telly.org> Message-ID: <1157684781.3872.18.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Also: How corporations are about to drastically change the way you consume media, and how one local group is going to make them pay for it http://weeklydig.com/news_opinions/articles/drm_roll/ http://defectivebydesign.org/en/node RickT http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Tue, 2006-09-05 at 16:51 -0400, Alex Beamish wrote: > On 9/5/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I'm surprised Groklaw hasn't picked it up yet. > > http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=192501175 > > It was mentioned a while back in an off-topic post: > > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=200608241141557#c473900 > > .. but PJ hasn't written a full-blown article about it that I can see. > She is, no doubt, plugged into what the EFF is up to, including this > case, so I'm sure she's aware of the case. > > Right now, I think more attention is focussed on SCO's upcoming > quarterly conference call after the markets close tomorrow. > > > -- > Alex Beamish > Toronto, Ontario -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 00:43:46 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 01:43:46 +0100 Subject: Linux, Los Alamos, Cell Processor, 1.6 petaflops... Message-ID: <4500BCC2.3070208@utoronto.ca> Saw this earlier this evening: IBM to Build 1.6 Petaflops Super for Los Alamos Lab http://www.itjungle.com/breaking/bn090706-story01.html "Los Alamos plans to build Roadrunner in three stages. The first stage is to get the Opteron machines installed, which will comprise just under 80 teraflops of computing capacity and 16,000 Opteron processor cores. In the second phase, IBM will provide Los Alamos with some Cell-base blade servers and lots of programming assistance to tune Linux for the Cell chip and, more importantly, for the specific workloads at Los Alamos." We win again. Seems to me Linux (the kernel) and the Cell processor are getting a lot of positive press. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 14:43:20 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 10:43:20 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <4500022E.1090409-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060905223948.e5283560.hgibson@eol.ca> <4500022E.1090409@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060908144320.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 07, 2006 at 07:27:42AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > You're lucky. When I took Fortran, BASIC and Pascal courses there, back > in the mid '80s, we couldn't even use floppies. We used an IBM > mainframe there and the only way to get the code out, was via print out > or dial up access. > > When I took C at George Brown College in 1995, we could use 3.5" > floppies. However, in class we used Turbo C on Windows 3.1, while at > home I used Borland C on OS/2, so I had to be careful about variable > sizes. For example an int was 16 bits in Borland C, but only 8 in > Turbo. On occasion, my code would work fine at home, but crap out in > class because I'd overflowed a variable. Don't 8 bit integers violate the C standard? I thought it required integer to be at least 16 bits. > Also, when I was taking Fortran at Ryerson, I did my homework on a VAX > 11/780 at work. That also meant I had to be careful about a few things. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 15:26:16 2006 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 11:26:16 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <20060908144320.GJ13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060905223948.e5283560.hgibson@eol.ca> <4500022E.1090409@rogers.com> <20060908144320.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 07, 2006 at 07:27:42AM -0400, James Knott wrote: >> When I took C at George Brown College in 1995, we could use 3.5" >> floppies. However, in class we used Turbo C on Windows 3.1, while at >> home I used Borland C on OS/2, so I had to be careful about variable >> sizes. For example an int was 16 bits in Borland C, but only 8 in >> Turbo. On occasion, my code would work fine at home, but crap out in >> class because I'd overflowed a variable. > > Don't 8 bit integers violate the C standard? I thought it required > integer to be at least 16 bits. This recollection is rather strange. I'd been using Turbo C since 1986 or so, and remember only 16-bit ints. My version ran on a PC clone with 8088, so 16-bits was a normal size. In 1995 Turbo C 2.0 was my preferred small language, for writing little one-off utilities and the like. No hint of anything so non-standard. Cheers, Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 15:37:59 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 11:37:59 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060905223948.e5283560.hgibson@eol.ca> <4500022E.1090409@rogers.com> <20060908144320.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 9/8/06, Mel Wilson wrote: > > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 07, 2006 at 07:27:42AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> When I took C at George Brown College in 1995, we could use 3.5" > >> floppies. However, in class we used Turbo C on Windows 3.1, while at > >> home I used Borland C on OS/2, so I had to be careful about variable > >> sizes. For example an int was 16 bits in Borland C, but only 8 in > >> Turbo. On occasion, my code would work fine at home, but crap out in > >> class because I'd overflowed a variable. > > > > Don't 8 bit integers violate the C standard? I thought it required > > integer to be at least 16 bits. > > This recollection is rather strange. I'd been using Turbo C > since 1986 or so, and remember only 16-bit ints. My version ran > on a PC clone with 8088, so 16-bits was a normal size. > In 1995 Turbo C 2.0 was my preferred small language, for writing > little one-off utilities and the like. No hint of anything so > non-standard. I'd have to agree with Mel .. an int was 16 bits, but you could also specify a short which would be 8 bits, and a long which was 32 bits. And I got Turbo C in '87, astounded that for about $90 the C compiler came with a full blown IDE with debugger, make facility and various other utilities as well. Back then, talking about running Unix on a PC got you strange looks. Alex Cheers, Mel. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 16:40:11 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 12:40:11 -0400 Subject: Toronto Hydro Wifi In-Reply-To: <44FEECB9.3080203-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060906111422.m8faj8sf0i4go0c8@webmail.swiftpenguin.com> <44FEECB9.3080203@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060908164011.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 06, 2006 at 03:43:53PM +0000, Erebus wrote: > And what kind of hardware are they using on those lightpoles? (as usual > I'm wondering brand and type) The FAQ says Siemens provided most of the hardware involved. It also says you could use it as your home internet connection if you are in the area, although it also says the connection times out after 15 minutes of inactivity, so that kind of rules out using it as a useful connection if every time you want to do something, you have to launch a browser to login before using other programs. I think they will need to fix that stupidity somehow before it actually becomes useful for anything but occational use on the go. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 16:52:23 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 12:52:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Toronto Hydro Wifi In-Reply-To: <20060908164011.GK13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060906111422.m8faj8sf0i4go0c8@webmail.swiftpenguin.com> <44FEECB9.3080203@rogers.com> <20060908164011.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Sep 06, 2006 at 03:43:53PM +0000, Erebus wrote: >> And what kind of hardware are they using on those lightpoles? (as usual >> I'm wondering brand and type) > > The FAQ says Siemens provided most of the hardware involved. > > It also says you could use it as your home internet connection if you > are in the area, although it also says the connection times out after 15 > minutes of inactivity, so that kind of rules out using it as a useful > connection if every time you want to do something, you have to launch a > browser to login before using other programs. I think they will need to > fix that stupidity somehow before it actually becomes useful for > anything but occational use on the go. I cannot imagine having 15 minutes of inactivity. Between checking mail and newsgroups, my network connection is never idle that long. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 17:21:03 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:21:03 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <20060901182507.GA14265-bIfI8A3ED0pQNIHP08TOaLz7B6FnHHLR9KrOEb1XlYA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060908172103.GL13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 02:25:07PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > I'm thinking of getting a new machine -- so I'm interested in any > Linux war stories, good or bad, with the following hardware: > > AMD Athlon 64 X2 (dual core) They just had another price chop recently. Makes them look nicer again. > Asus M2V Socket AM2 (Via K8T890) motherboard As far as I have been able to tell so far, I think the nvidia chipsets are the fastest/best for athlon 64 at this time, with the via being the second best choice. So probably a decent choice. > Asus EN7300GS GeForce 7300GS video card That should work fine too, although don't expect fast 3D on it (I doubt you are expecting that from a low end card anyhow). > I expect to run Gentoo, to get the full 64-bit environment for the > Athlon, and because I have to do something with the spare processor > cycles ;-) Ehm, OK then. You could also let it idle and save on your power bill instead, not to mention your own time and sanity. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 17:24:09 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:24:09 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <20060901221414.GA28632-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901221414.GA28632@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <20060908172409.GN13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 06:14:14PM -0400, William Park wrote: > Interesting... I'm thinking about getting rid of all my P2/P3's (all 4 > of them) and replace them with a single P4 system. Why a P4? In my mind it has always been a lousy design, and still is. Intel's latest chip certainly shows just how bad it really is by totally clobering it in every benchmark while using half the power. Athlon 64 or Core 2 are really the only sensible choices in CPU today for x86 systems. No point being used systems, or systems so obsolete they might as well be used. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 17:27:31 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:27:31 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <44FABCBD.2020305-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901221414.GA28632@wp.magstar.net> <44FABCBD.2020305@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060908172731.GO13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Sep 03, 2006 at 07:30:05AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > That would depend on whether you're buying new or not. There are plenty > of name brand "refurb" P4 systems available for about $200, which are > sufficiently powerful for many users. Or get a new sempron system for about the same price. That even has a warrenty. > I've got an Athlon 64 3200+, which I bought in June. I assume it would > have that too. Depends on the stepping. If it was june, it was probably before socket AM2, and the older ones came both with and without virtualization assistance. For example this Athlon 64 3500+ socket 939 does NOT have support for virtualization (or even running 64bit guests in vmware): processor : 0 vendor_id : AuthenticAMD cpu family : 15 model : 15 model name : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3500+ stepping : 0 cpu MHz : 2202.912 cache size : 512 KB fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 1 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 pni syscall nx mmxext lm 3dnowext 3dnow bogomips : 4308.99 TLB size : 1024 4K pages clflush size : 64 cache_alignment : 64 address sizes : 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual power management: ts fid vid ttp It is a stepping 0 Athlon 64. I suspect you need stepping 2 or 3 before you get virtualization. Not sure which cpu flags those have to indicate that. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 17:40:19 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:40:19 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <20060904175834.GA5113-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901221414.GA28632@wp.magstar.net> <20060904175834.GA5113@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <20060908174019.GP13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 04, 2006 at 01:58:35PM -0400, William Park wrote: > It seems that all AM2 socket has DDR2 support. I am considering > > 1. - Sempron (AM2/2800+), $48 > - DDR2-800 (2x512), $140 > - Asus M2N-MX (AM2/nVidia), $99 So modern cpu socket with upgrade future. Modern ram you will be able to get for many years. Gigabit ethernet, SATA 2, etc. > 2. - P4-541 (3.2GHz/800MHz), $109 > - DDR-400 (2x512/2-3-2-5), $155 > - Asus P5GL-MX (915GL/ICH6), $80 Ram that will slowly be discontinued, and will become harder to upgrade. Energy wasting cpu, and most likely a mainboard with no future upgrade potential. 100Mbit ethernet, SATA 1, etc. > So, it's about the same price. And, they are the cheapest in Toronto. Same price, different features, and different generation of hardware. > It all comes down to chipset. I'm more comfortable with Intel chipset > than nVidia. I would be very interested in hearing any first-hand > experiences about nVidia + Linux, since all I hear is nVidia + Windows. nvidia chipsets and linux generally just work perfectly. ATI is a very different story. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 17:42:29 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:42:29 -0400 Subject: [OT] audio connection help In-Reply-To: <1e55af990609021501v32698253l83604c11e93402a7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605172155x40e4e37du2742f65a588ba575@mail.gmail.com> <20060518152519.GG23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990609021501v32698253l83604c11e93402a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060908174229.GQ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Sep 02, 2006 at 05:01:40PM -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > Just a quick thanks to you both. I finally had some time to really > play around with this until I could come up with the solution. It was > annoying to get the connections right, and even more annoying to have > had to redo things when they weren't working. I've documented it for > future generations. > > Lennart - As it turns out, the rear speakers do not mute when I use > headphones in the front. But do they work otherwise? The board I last hooked up front audio on did in fact mute when headphones were plugged in. > http://jrandomhacker.info/Antec_Sonata_and_Asus_K8N_audio_connectors -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 17:45:49 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:45:49 -0400 Subject: Audio DVD? In-Reply-To: <200609022024.30020.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200609022024.30020.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20060908174549.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Sep 02, 2006 at 08:24:29PM -0400, Merv Curley wrote: > Audio-newbie here, > > I have just started doing what my 8 yr old granddaughter can do, make audio > CD's. No problem with my LP.'s. > > I have some collections on tape which will not fit on a CD, I haven't found > any information yet whether this is feasable using a DVD disk. If I use a > DVD then I assume I could only use a DVD player for playback. > > K3b doesn't give this as a possibility, perhaps the command line? Most dvd players don't support DVD-Audio disks (whatever they are). DVD's do not support the audio format CDs use (audio CDs use just around 2400 bytes per block with some ECC code, while data CDs use 2048 bytes per block with the extra bytes used for a lot more ECC code since data has to be right while audio just has to be mostly right when read). DVDs are always using full data blocks and have no concept of an audio disk. Some players can play wav or mp3 or other audio files stored on a DVD, but it isn't part of the DVD spec. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 17:22:13 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:22:13 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901201309.7098.qmail@web61323.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060908172213.GM13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Sep 03, 2006 at 01:38:44AM -0400, Mark Lane wrote: > I'm sure Ubuntu is good if you are sticking with pure 64Bit software > but can apt-get handle multi-arch libs yet? Not yet. Still waiting for someone to actually solve that problem. So far I know of no distribution with an actual solution to it, just a few with some very dirty hacks. > If you need some 32bit apps like a flash plugin for your browser or > mplayer's 32bit codecs, Fedora is much more mature 64Bit system. And one of the ones that qualifies as a hack job. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 17:48:46 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:48:46 -0400 Subject: Toronto Hydro Wifi In-Reply-To: References: <20060906111422.m8faj8sf0i4go0c8@webmail.swiftpenguin.com> <44FEECB9.3080203@rogers.com> <20060908164011.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060908174846.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 12:52:23PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > I cannot imagine having 15 minutes of inactivity. Between > checking mail and newsgroups, my network connection is never > idle that long. What if I want to SSH to my home machine though? Their connection wouldn't work at all for any kind of connection inbound to your home network if you use their service as you internet connection. I guess not having a static IP would be another problem to deal with. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 18:02:09 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 14:02:09 -0400 Subject: Toronto Hydro Wifi In-Reply-To: <20060908174846.GS13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060906111422.m8faj8sf0i4go0c8@webmail.swiftpenguin.com> <44FEECB9.3080203@rogers.com> <20060908164011.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060908174846.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Run a cron job every 10 minutes to do something like this: wget http://www.google.ca -O /dev/null zb. On 9/8/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 12:52:23PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > I cannot imagine having 15 minutes of inactivity. Between > > checking mail and newsgroups, my network connection is never > > idle that long. > > What if I want to SSH to my home machine though? Their connection > wouldn't work at all for any kind of connection inbound to your home > network if you use their service as you internet connection. I guess > not having a static IP would be another problem to deal with. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 18:07:57 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 14:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Toronto Hydro Wifiy In-Reply-To: <20060908174846.GS13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060906111422.m8faj8sf0i4go0c8@webmail.swiftpenguin.com> <44FEECB9.3080203@rogers.com> <20060908164011.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060908174846.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 12:52:23PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> I cannot imagine having 15 minutes of inactivity. Between >> checking mail and newsgroups, my network connection is never >> idle that long. > > What if I want to SSH to my home machine though? Their connection > wouldn't work at all for any kind of connection inbound to your home > network if you use their service as you internet connection. Why not? > I guess not having a static IP would be another problem to deal > with. That's a minor problem. When I didn't have a static IP, I stored the current IP address on a remote site. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 18:18:04 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 14:18:04 -0400 Subject: Toronto Hydro Wifi In-Reply-To: <20060908174846.GS13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060906111422.m8faj8sf0i4go0c8@webmail.swiftpenguin.com> <44FEECB9.3080203@rogers.com> <20060908164011.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060908174846.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <99AFEC1A-9C8D-4705-B6FB-7256AD599BAC@visibleassets.com> On 8-Sep-06, at 1:48 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 12:52:23PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> I cannot imagine having 15 minutes of inactivity. Between >> checking mail and newsgroups, my network connection is never >> idle that long. > > What if I want to SSH to my home machine though? Their connection > wouldn't work at all for any kind of connection inbound to your home > network if you use their service as you internet connection. I guess > not having a static IP would be another problem to deal with. check out openvpn fairly easy way to get access to your own network from anywhere > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 18:22:29 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 14:22:29 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <20060908144320.GJ13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060905223948.e5283560.hgibson@eol.ca> <4500022E.1090409@rogers.com> <20060908144320.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4501B4E5.1060600@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Don't 8 bit integers violate the C standard? I thought it required > integer to be at least 16 bits. I don't know about the standard, but that was the int() size in Turbo C, which was the DOS version, running on Windows 3.1. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 18:25:59 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 14:25:59 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060905223948.e5283560.hgibson@eol.ca> <4500022E.1090409@rogers.com> <20060908144320.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4501B5B7.1070400@rogers.com> Mel Wilson wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Thu, Sep 07, 2006 at 07:27:42AM -0400, James Knott wrote: >>> When I took C at George Brown College in 1995, we could use 3.5" >>> floppies. However, in class we used Turbo C on Windows 3.1, while at >>> home I used Borland C on OS/2, so I had to be careful about variable >>> sizes. For example an int was 16 bits in Borland C, but only 8 in >>> Turbo. On occasion, my code would work fine at home, but crap out in >>> class because I'd overflowed a variable. >> >> Don't 8 bit integers violate the C standard? I thought it required >> integer to be at least 16 bits. > > This recollection is rather strange. I'd been using Turbo C > since 1986 or so, and remember only 16-bit ints. My version ran > on a PC clone with 8088, so 16-bits was a normal size. > In 1995 Turbo C 2.0 was my preferred small language, for writing > little one-off utilities and the like. No hint of anything so > non-standard. In retrospect, I could be wrong on that, as it was 11 year ago. Regardless, the integer in Borland C on OS/2 was twice as wide as on DOS Turbo C, so it may have been 32 vs 16 bits. I haven't looked at either compiler in years. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 18:36:40 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 14:36:40 -0400 Subject: Toronto Hydro Wifi In-Reply-To: <20060908174846.GS13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060906111422.m8faj8sf0i4go0c8@webmail.swiftpenguin.com> <44FEECB9.3080203@rogers.com> <20060908164011.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060908174846.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4501B838.3030006@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 12:52:23PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> I cannot imagine having 15 minutes of inactivity. Between >> checking mail and newsgroups, my network connection is never >> idle that long. > > What if I want to SSH to my home machine though? Their connection > wouldn't work at all for any kind of connection inbound to your home > network if you use their service as you internet connection. I guess > not having a static IP would be another problem to deal with. SSH would depend on whether they use NAT. If so, you're out of luck. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 18:38:42 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 14:38:42 -0400 Subject: Toronto Hydro Wifi In-Reply-To: <99AFEC1A-9C8D-4705-B6FB-7256AD599BAC-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <20060906111422.m8faj8sf0i4go0c8@webmail.swiftpenguin.com> <44FEECB9.3080203@rogers.com> <20060908164011.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060908174846.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <99AFEC1A-9C8D-4705-B6FB-7256AD599BAC@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <4501B8B2.2000105@rogers.com> Dave Cramer wrote: > > On 8-Sep-06, at 1:48 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 12:52:23PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >>> I cannot imagine having 15 minutes of inactivity. Between >>> checking mail and newsgroups, my network connection is never >>> idle that long. >> >> What if I want to SSH to my home machine though? Their connection >> wouldn't work at all for any kind of connection inbound to your home >> network if you use their service as you internet connection. I guess >> not having a static IP would be another problem to deal with. > check out openvpn fairly easy way to get access to your own network from > anywhere That depends on whether they hand out RFC1918 addresses. If so, you won't be able to connect to howe with anything. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 18:41:23 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 14:41:23 -0400 Subject: Toronto Hydro Wifiy In-Reply-To: References: <20060906111422.m8faj8sf0i4go0c8@webmail.swiftpenguin.com> <44FEECB9.3080203@rogers.com> <20060908164011.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060908174846.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4501B953.8090708@rogers.com> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 12:52:23PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >>> I cannot imagine having 15 minutes of inactivity. Between >>> checking mail and newsgroups, my network connection is never >>> idle that long. >> >> What if I want to SSH to my home machine though? Their connection >> wouldn't work at all for any kind of connection inbound to your home >> network if you use their service as you internet connection. > > Why not? > >> I guess not having a static IP would be another problem to deal >> with. > > That's a minor problem. When I didn't have a static IP, I stored > the current IP address on a remote site. > I have a DHCP address on Rogers. However, my host name, based on modem and computer MACs always stays the same. So, as long as the DNS is working, I can connect to my home system. Also, the DHCP addresses on Rogers are virtually static. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From behdad-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 18:59:30 2006 From: behdad-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 14:59:30 -0400 Subject: Toronto Hydro Wifi In-Reply-To: <4501B838.3030006-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060906111422.m8faj8sf0i4go0c8@webmail.swiftpenguin.com> <44FEECB9.3080203@rogers.com> <20060908164011.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060908174846.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4501B838.3030006@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1157741971.9112.83.camel@home> On Fri, 2006-09-08 at 14:36 -0400, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 12:52:23PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > >> I cannot imagine having 15 minutes of inactivity. Between > >> checking mail and newsgroups, my network connection is never > >> idle that long. > > > > What if I want to SSH to my home machine though? Their connection > > wouldn't work at all for any kind of connection inbound to your home > > network if you use their service as you internet connection. I guess > > not having a static IP would be another problem to deal with. > > SSH would depend on whether they use NAT. If so, you're out of luck. If you have a remote machine, you can have the home machine ssh to it and forward a port from the remote machine (say, 1022) to port 22 of the home machine. Then to connect to the home machine, you just ssh remote-machine -p 1022 behdad > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists -- behdad http://behdad.org/ "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill" -- Dan Bern, "New American Language" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 19:29:29 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 15:29:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Gnome issue In-Reply-To: <1157477706.804.29.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <1157477706.804.29.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <20060908192929.56966.qmail@web61320.mail.yahoo.com> Most likely the home directory of user oracle (/home/oracles) is missing or is not owned by oracle. In that case X can not create the session file and hence the message. The error you get from Gconf seem to confirm that. If that is the case you can create the home directory and/or change its ownership to oracle. However, you might have problem with the oracle installation in general and may need to sort that out. Hope that helps EK John Van Ostrand wrote: On Tue, 2006-09-05 at 18:48 +0300, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > A couple of hours ago, I installed Oracle 10g on a RHE3, following > documentation to the letter. After installation, all was well untill I > logged out. Then logging in as user oracle fails. Xfree86 works well, > but gnome fails, leaving me with a dark desktop and a pop up with the > error message below > > "your session only lasted less than 10 seconds. If you have not > logged out yourself, this could mean that there is installation > problem or that you may be out of diskspace." When I click okay, I am > kicked out of the login session. Check the ~/.profile or ~/.bash_profile of the user that you tried to login as. Make sure that the user's shell is a standard Linux shell (/bin/bash usually) and that it results in a command prompt. > I log in as another user and these are some of the information that I > dug out that I assume may be helpful. > > (nautilus:7307): Eel-WARNING **: GConf error: > Failed to contact configuration server; some possible causes are > that you need to enable TCP/IP networking for ORBit, or you have stale > NFS locks due to a system crash. See > http://www.gnome.org/projects/gconf/ for information. (Details - 1: > IOR file '/home/oracle/.gconfd/lock/ior' not opened successfully, no > gconfd located: No such file or directory 2: IOR file > '/home/oracle/.gconfd/lock/ior' not opened successfully, no gconfd > located: No such file or directory) > > > [root at theonion root]# ls -ld /home/oracle/ > drwxrwxrwx 18 oracle oinstall 4096 Sep 5 17:22 /home/oracle/ > [root at theonion root]# df /home/oracle/ > Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on > /dev/hda2 36859304 6736952 28249980 20% / > > What could be the issue? I am sure its related to oracle installation > as it affect only one user and it started after installing the said > application. Is there anybody who has seen this problem in the past? > Is there a way of starting oracle without logging in as user oracle? Use the "switch user" command: "su - oracle" if that gives you a problem try "su oracle". You could also try to login to a text console (press Ctrl-Alt-F1) as oracle. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml --------------------------------- Share your photos with the people who matter at Yahoo! Canada Photos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 19:32:53 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 15:32:53 -0400 Subject: Linux, Los Alamos, Cell Processor, 1.6 petaflops... In-Reply-To: <4500BCC2.3070208-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4500BCC2.3070208@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060908193253.GT13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 01:43:46AM +0100, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Saw this earlier this evening: > > IBM to Build 1.6 Petaflops Super for Los Alamos Lab > http://www.itjungle.com/breaking/bn090706-story01.html > > "Los Alamos plans to build Roadrunner in three stages. The first stage > is to get the Opteron machines installed, which will comprise just under > 80 teraflops of computing capacity and 16,000 Opteron processor cores. > In the second phase, IBM will provide Los Alamos with some Cell-base > blade servers and lots of programming assistance to tune Linux for the > Cell chip and, more importantly, for the specific workloads at Los Alamos." > > We win again. Seems to me Linux (the kernel) and the Cell processor are > getting a lot of positive press. It is actually 16000 cell processors (each of which has 8 SPEs and 1 powerpc based core). I haven't found anything that says how many opterons it will have as main processors though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 19:34:55 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 15:34:55 -0400 Subject: Toronto Hydro Wifiy In-Reply-To: References: <20060906111422.m8faj8sf0i4go0c8@webmail.swiftpenguin.com> <44FEECB9.3080203@rogers.com> <20060908164011.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060908174846.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060908193455.GU13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 02:07:57PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > Why not? Because if you have 15 minutes idle the system disconnects you and your system has to reauthenticate before being back on the network. Hence an inbound connection can't happen unless you are already authenticated and on the network. I guess you could probably write something to poke a website or something every 5 minutes, and if it fails, run a script to reauthenticate again. Still seems stupid to have to do that. > That's a minor problem. When I didn't have a static IP, I stored > the current IP address on a remote site. The dynamic IP is indeed a minor problem. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 19:35:34 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 15:35:34 -0400 Subject: Toronto Hydro Wifi In-Reply-To: <99AFEC1A-9C8D-4705-B6FB-7256AD599BAC-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <20060906111422.m8faj8sf0i4go0c8@webmail.swiftpenguin.com> <44FEECB9.3080203@rogers.com> <20060908164011.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060908174846.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <99AFEC1A-9C8D-4705-B6FB-7256AD599BAC@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <20060908193534.GV13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 02:18:04PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > check out openvpn fairly easy way to get access to your own network > from anywhere No need for a vpn, just a connection that is UP. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 19:56:55 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 15:56:55 -0400 Subject: filter unwanted domains? Message-ID: <4501CB07.7000503@vianet.ca> I get a lot of spam. Is there a way I can set a rule or set up a filter to send messages to senders that they need to email me again and have me accept them? Then I could add their domain to my friendly-domain list or somesuch. So, for instance, I could add ***@dsb1.edu.on.ca as friendly domain, or as I'm dealing with Sears now I could add sears.ca - that sort of thing... Obviously I don't know what I'm talking about. However, I've received returns to my emails where an organisation has done this - then I email them again and they add me to some list so subsequnet emails will be accepted. I don't what this is called - I don't even know what words to google to read up on this. I'll pay a little (?) if I *must* but if there is something easy I can do in Thunderbird 1.0 then I'll do that. Sincerely, Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 20:17:02 2006 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 16:17:02 -0400 Subject: filter unwanted domains? In-Reply-To: <4501CB07.7000503-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4501CB07.7000503@vianet.ca> Message-ID: <4501CFBE.5070803@yahoo.ca> Chris Aitken wrote: > I get a lot of spam. > > Is there a way I can set a rule or set up a filter to send messages to > senders that they need to email me again and have me accept them? Then I > could add their domain to my friendly-domain list or somesuch. So, for > instance, I could add ***@dsb1.edu.on.ca as friendly domain, or as I'm > dealing with Sears now I could add sears.ca - that sort of thing... > > Obviously I don't know what I'm talking about. However, I've received > returns to my emails where an organisation has done this - then I email > them again and they add me to some list so subsequnet emails will be > accepted. You're probably thinking of Challenge Response, which is in my opinion and that of others as a flawed model for combating SPAM/UCE. Why not just grab a GMail account Chris ? They do all the spam filtering for you, and it's pretty good. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 20:36:08 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 16:36:08 -0400 Subject: [OT] audio connection help In-Reply-To: <20060908174229.GQ13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605172155x40e4e37du2742f65a588ba575@mail.gmail.com> <20060518152519.GG23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990609021501v32698253l83604c11e93402a7@mail.gmail.com> <20060908174229.GQ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990609081336h4fbff02ds8e7ee765136b4324@mail.gmail.com> On 9/8/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Lennart - As it turns out, the rear speakers do not mute when I use > > headphones in the front. > > But do they work otherwise? The board I last hooked up front audio on > did in fact mute when headphones were plugged in. > > > http://jrandomhacker.info/Antec_Sonata_and_Asus_K8N_audio_connectors The rear speakers work at all times.. with or without the front speakers being used. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 21:07:23 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 17:07:23 -0400 Subject: filter unwanted domains? In-Reply-To: <4501CB07.7000503-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4501CB07.7000503@vianet.ca> Message-ID: <1157749643.12937.33.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Fri, 2006-09-08 at 15:56 -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > I get a lot of spam. How much is a lot? > Is there a way I can set a rule or set up a filter to send messages to > senders that they need to email me again and have me accept them? Then I > could add their domain to my friendly-domain list or somesuch. So, for > instance, I could add ***@dsb1.edu.on.ca as friendly domain, or as I'm > dealing with Sears now I could add sears.ca - that sort of thing... If you have your own mail server you can use greylisting. The technique is simple. It refuses email the first time it is sent and forces the sending server to retry later on. This is based on the fact that most spam servers are not persistent. If they fail to deliver a spam on the first try they simply move on. Greylisting works by keeping track of the sender-recipient combination of the email. It refuses the email only after it has this information and if the combination wasn't recently seen before. The combination is then stored in hopes the remote server returns. Legitimate mail servers will return to deliver it at a later time. Some will wait 15m, busy servers may wait 1h, it's configurable by the administrator. When the remote mail server tries again your email server checks for the sender-recipient pair and, now that it exists, it allows it. This pair is then kept for a longer period of time so that subsequent emails are allowed through on the first attempt. The main downside that I see is that you will have to wait for the first message that you get from someone. It also means that you have to accommodate other special cases if needed. For example you may have some web applications (fill-in-forms) that bypass mail servers and hit your server directly. Or you may also have remote users who use SMTP port from their mail clients. > Obviously I don't know what I'm talking about. However, I've received > returns to my emails where an organisation has done this - then I email > them again and they add me to some list so subsequnet emails will be > accepted. > > I don't what this is called - I don't even know what words to google to > read up on this. > > I'll pay a little (?) if I *must* but if there is something easy I can > do in Thunderbird 1.0 then I'll do that. > > Sincerely, > > Chris > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 21:35:08 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 17:35:08 -0400 Subject: filter unwanted domains? In-Reply-To: <4501CFBE.5070803-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <4501CB07.7000503@vianet.ca> <4501CFBE.5070803@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <4501E20C.6040606@vianet.ca> Stephen Allen wrote: >You're probably thinking of Challenge Response, > That name, as a descriptor, certainly fits what I've seen. >which is in my opinion >and that of others as a flawed model for combating SPAM/UCE. > >Why not just grab a GMail account Chris ? They do all the spam filtering >for you, and it's pretty good. > > Well, I already have two domains registered with EasyDNS and they give me email forwarding which I use to send [whatever]@chrisaitken.net and [whatever]@shinypinemusic.com to my ISP account, caitken-Bm8TULXj0r+VS+Kkd+ZcAg at public.gmane.org So, if I'm already dealing with these two companies shouldn't I just give them more money for whatever anti-spam solution they offer? [I'm assuming, of course, that gmail is another option I would have to pay for anyway...] Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 8 21:54:51 2006 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 17:54:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Thanks In-Reply-To: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <3941.192.168.0.96.1157657885.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <57237.66.11.182.5.1157752491.squirrel@canuckster.org> Thanks for the help guys, the site is now working perfectly Jason Carson > Greetings, > > Is it possible to run 2 websites off 1 IP address, If so is there a faq > somewhere that can show me how to do it? > > Thanks > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 00:04:16 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 20:04:16 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <20060908172213.GM13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901201309.7098.qmail@web61323.mail.yahoo.com> <20060908172213.GM13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: In my humble opinon, sticking with 32-bit is much, much easier, unless you have too much RAM. Too much closed source crap to worry about, and it doesn't make a significant difference in performance. I mean, of course, some people aren't doing it for that reason, they just want to early-adopt, and then my logic is irrelevant.. Also, I only tried 64-bit stuff when I was still a bit of a newb. Simon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 00:12:12 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 20:12:12 -0400 Subject: filter unwanted domains? In-Reply-To: <4501E20C.6040606-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4501CB07.7000503@vianet.ca> <4501CFBE.5070803@yahoo.ca> <4501E20C.6040606@vianet.ca> Message-ID: GMail is free! The caveat is that Google has all of your email on record. Lockin isn't too much of an issue though, you can use POP3 to get all of your email out of the account. Simon On 9/8/06, Chris Aitken wrote: [I'm > assuming, of course, that gmail is another option I would have to pay > for anyway...] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 00:55:57 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 20:55:57 -0400 Subject: Toronto Hydro Wifi In-Reply-To: <1157741971.9112.83.camel@home> References: <20060906111422.m8faj8sf0i4go0c8@webmail.swiftpenguin.com> <44FEECB9.3080203@rogers.com> <20060908164011.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060908174846.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4501B838.3030006@rogers.com> <1157741971.9112.83.camel@home> Message-ID: <4502111D.4040805@rogers.com> Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > On Fri, 2006-09-08 at 14:36 -0400, James Knott wrote: >> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 12:52:23PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >>>> I cannot imagine having 15 minutes of inactivity. Between >>>> checking mail and newsgroups, my network connection is never >>>> idle that long. >>> What if I want to SSH to my home machine though? Their connection >>> wouldn't work at all for any kind of connection inbound to your home >>> network if you use their service as you internet connection. I guess >>> not having a static IP would be another problem to deal with. >> SSH would depend on whether they use NAT. If so, you're out of luck. > > If you have a remote machine, you can have the home machine ssh to it > and forward a port from the remote machine (say, 1022) to port 22 of the > home machine. Then to connect to the home machine, you just ssh > remote-machine -p 1022 If you are away from home, how would you arrange to have your home system SSH to you, particularly if you don't know what the remote IP is before hand? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 01:19:55 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 21:19:55 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901201309.7098.qmail@web61323.mail.yahoo.com> <20060908172213.GM13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <450216BB.2040405@rogers.com> Simon wrote: > In my humble opinon, sticking with 32-bit is much, much easier, unless > you have too much RAM. Too much closed source crap to worry about, > and it doesn't make a significant difference in performance. I mean, > of course, some people aren't doing it for that reason, they just want > to early-adopt, and then my logic is irrelevant.. Also, I only tried > 64-bit stuff when I was still a bit of a newb. > You mean there are some people who actually don't need a 64 bit version of vi? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From ronjscott-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 01:26:12 2006 From: ronjscott-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (ron) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 21:26:12 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <4501B5B7.1070400-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060905223948.e5283560.hgibson@eol.ca> <4500022E.1090409@rogers.com> <20060908144320.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4501B5B7.1070400@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45021834.9080401@sympatico.ca> James Knott wrote: > Mel Wilson wrote: > >> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Sep 07, 2006 at 07:27:42AM -0400, James Knott wrote: >>> >>>> When I took C at George Brown College in 1995, we could use 3.5" >>>> floppies. However, in class we used Turbo C on Windows 3.1, while at >>>> home I used Borland C on OS/2, so I had to be careful about variable >>>> sizes. For example an int was 16 bits in Borland C, but only 8 in >>>> Turbo. On occasion, my code would work fine at home, but crap out in >>>> class because I'd overflowed a variable. >>> >>> >>> Don't 8 bit integers violate the C standard? I thought it required >>> integer to be at least 16 bits. >> >> >> This recollection is rather strange. I'd been using Turbo C >> since 1986 or so, and remember only 16-bit ints. My version ran >> on a PC clone with 8088, so 16-bits was a normal size. >> In 1995 Turbo C 2.0 was my preferred small language, for writing >> little one-off utilities and the like. No hint of anything so >> non-standard. > > > In retrospect, I could be wrong on that, as it was 11 year ago. > Regardless, the integer in Borland C on OS/2 was twice as wide as on > DOS Turbo C, so it may have been 32 vs 16 bits. I haven't looked at > either compiler in years. > In the "Turbo C User's Guide" by Borland International Inc., First Printing 1987, on page 94 in the paragraph titled "The Three ints" the last sentance is: "In Turbo C, these types occupy16 bits (short), 16 bits (int), and 32 bits (long)." There is half the answer. Ron -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 01:59:02 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 21:59:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <450216BB.2040405-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901201309.7098.qmail@web61323.mail.yahoo.com> <20060908172213.GM13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <450216BB.2040405@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, James Knott wrote: > Simon wrote: >> In my humble opinon, sticking with 32-bit is much, much easier, unless >> you have too much RAM. Too much closed source crap to worry about, >> and it doesn't make a significant difference in performance. I mean, >> of course, some people aren't doing it for that reason, they just want >> to early-adopt, and then my logic is irrelevant.. Also, I only tried >> 64-bit stuff when I was still a bit of a newb. >> > > You mean there are some people who actually don't need a 64 bit version > of vi? ;-) Or any version, for that matter. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 04:03:23 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 00:03:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060909040323.72026.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: > On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, James Knott wrote: > > > > You mean there are some people who actually don't > need a 64 bit version > > of vi? ;-) > > Or any version, for that matter. Now, now... I have dealt with old Sun boxes where the only editor awailable was vi. So vi has its place, for things like editing network configuration files, so you can go out on to the Internet and download a nice text editing program :-) . In other words I see vi as being like the World War II FP-45 Liberator pistol, a REALLY cheap and REALLY nasty pistol that was given out to resistance groups in Europe and Asia. The standing "joke" about the FP-45 was that you only used it to kill someone with a better gun and then threw the FP-45 away... With vi, use it to get something better and then ... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 04:27:59 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 00:27:59 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <20060901182507.GA14265-bIfI8A3ED0pQNIHP08TOaLz7B6FnHHLR9KrOEb1XlYA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <450242CF.1000305@telly.org> Peter King wrote: > I'm thinking of getting a new machine -- so I'm interested in any > Linux war stories, good or bad, with the following hardware: > > AMD Athlon 64 X2 (dual core) > A 64-bit OS is good. If this is for a desktop, keep in mind that the Adobe Flash player and the Windows media codecs don't work under 64-bit. I have no idea if they work on 64-bit hardware running a 32-bit OS. > Asus M2V Socket AM2 (Via K8T890) motherboard > I think I use something similar, without problem. > Asus EN7300GS GeForce 7300GS video card > To future-proof yourself, make sure that you get a video card that will support XGL hardware acceleration. http://gentoo-wiki.com/HARDWARE_Video_Card_Support_Under_XGL It says that the 7300GS is supported. > I expect to run Gentoo, to get the full 64-bit environment for the > Athlon, and because I have to do something with the spare processor > cycles ;-) > Don't forget to invest in a decent case. I heartily recommend Antec; their Sonata II case is the best one I've ever owned. Good cooling, good power, attention to detail (like rubber mounts for the hard drives), and really quiet. Check out the reviews. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 11:40:08 2006 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 12:40:08 +0100 Subject: using sendmail without the service running In-Reply-To: <69322A0C-9FF2-4AF4-B0B5-E2308670123A-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <20060907054049.GA7758@waltdnes.org> <69322A0C-9FF2-4AF4-B0B5-E2308670123A@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <4502A818.3090009@quadratic.net> If I may, Why not queue locally? David Dave Cramer wrote: > Answering my own question > > in /etc/mail/submit.mc > > change > > dnl If you use IPv6 only, change [127.0.0.1] to [IPv6:::1] > FEATURE(`msp', `[127.0.0.1]')dnl > > to > FEATURE(`msp', `your smtp server')dnl > > and shut down sendmail > > --dc-- > On 7-Sep-06, at 1:40 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > >> On Wed, Sep 06, 2006 at 06:09:59PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote >>> I used to know how to do this, but can't find it anymore. >>> >>> There is a way to configure sendmail to send mail through a remote >>> smtp server without first queuing it locally. Does anyone know the >>> secret incantation ? >> >> If you simply want a simple send-only client, try ssmtp, which does >> only one thing, i.e. push email out the door to a smarthost (i.e. an >> MTA). It's usually your ISP's MTA, but could be any MTA, if you can >> point it to the proper machine. >> >> -- >> Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 >> My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 11:52:38 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 07:52:38 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <450242CF.1000305-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <450242CF.1000305@telly.org> Message-ID: <4502AB06.8010001@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Peter King wrote: >> I'm thinking of getting a new machine -- so I'm interested in any >> Linux war stories, good or bad, with the following hardware: >> >> AMD Athlon 64 X2 (dual core) >> > A 64-bit OS is good. If this is for a desktop, keep in mind that the > Adobe Flash player and the Windows media codecs don't work under 64-bit. > I have no idea if they work on 64-bit hardware running a 32-bit OS. I run 64 bit SUSE 10.1. While there is a 64 bit version of Seamonky, I loaded the 32 bit version, so that the pluggins will work. The 32 bit apps work fine with a 64 bit Linux, unlike what I've been reading about Vista. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 11:54:01 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 06:54:01 -0500 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <450242CF.1000305-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <450242CF.1000305@telly.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990609090454t4354bfb3rb41a3e1323470ce0@mail.gmail.com> On 9/8/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Don't forget to invest in a decent case. I heartily recommend Antec; > their Sonata II case is the best one I've ever owned. Good cooling, good > power, attention to detail (like rubber mounts for the hard drives), and > really quiet. Check out the reviews. I've got a Sonata 1 here.. awesome stuff. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 11:54:24 2006 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 12:54:24 +0100 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <20060909040323.72026.qmail-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060909040323.72026.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4502AB70.9070208@quadratic.net> I would liken vi to an AK-47. Cheap, everywhere, with a healthly list of features ( single, semi and full automatic) This email should have the subject: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Vi Learn it! It's great! I can run emacs and clones, and vi and clones and the difference for me is: vi is there already. I can :X,Ys/A/B/g with the best of them. My 2.0e-2 David Colin McGregor wrote: > --- "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: > >> On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, James Knott wrote: >> >>> You mean there are some people who actually don't >>> >> need a 64 bit version >> >>> of vi? ;-) >>> >> Or any version, for that matter. >> > > Now, now... I have dealt with old Sun boxes where the > only editor awailable was vi. So vi has its place, for > things like editing network configuration files, so > you can go out on to the Internet and download a nice > text editing program :-) . > > In other words I see vi as being like the World War II > FP-45 Liberator pistol, a REALLY cheap and REALLY > nasty pistol that was given out to resistance groups > in Europe and Asia. The standing "joke" about the > FP-45 was that you only used it to kill someone with a > better gun and then threw the FP-45 away... With vi, > use it to get something better and then ... > > Colin McGregor > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 11:57:44 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 07:57:44 -0400 Subject: using sendmail without the service running In-Reply-To: <4502A818.3090009-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060907054049.GA7758@waltdnes.org> <69322A0C-9FF2-4AF4-B0B5-E2308670123A@visibleassets.com> <4502A818.3090009@quadratic.net> Message-ID: <76EB519C-531F-4102-B75B-FD2267DF8FDF@visibleassets.com> Just one more service I don't really need running, and I need to make sure it is secure. Dave On 9-Sep-06, at 7:40 AM, David Thornton wrote: > If I may, Why not queue locally? > > David > > Dave Cramer wrote: >> Answering my own question >> >> in /etc/mail/submit.mc >> >> change >> >> dnl If you use IPv6 only, change [127.0.0.1] to [IPv6:::1] >> FEATURE(`msp', `[127.0.0.1]')dnl >> >> to >> FEATURE(`msp', `your smtp server')dnl >> >> and shut down sendmail >> >> --dc-- >> On 7-Sep-06, at 1:40 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Sep 06, 2006 at 06:09:59PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote >>>> I used to know how to do this, but can't find it anymore. >>>> >>>> There is a way to configure sendmail to send mail through a remote >>>> smtp server without first queuing it locally. Does anyone know the >>>> secret incantation ? >>> >>> If you simply want a simple send-only client, try ssmtp, which >>> does >>> only one thing, i.e. push email out the door to a smarthost (i.e. an >>> MTA). It's usually your ISP's MTA, but could be any MTA, if you can >>> point it to the proper machine. >>> >>> -- >>> Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 >>> My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists >>> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 13:41:32 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 09:41:32 -0400 Subject: using sendmail without the service running In-Reply-To: <76EB519C-531F-4102-B75B-FD2267DF8FDF-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <20060907054049.GA7758@waltdnes.org> <69322A0C-9FF2-4AF4-B0B5-E2308670123A@visibleassets.com> <4502A818.3090009@quadratic.net> <76EB519C-531F-4102-B75B-FD2267DF8FDF@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <1157809292.12937.42.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 07:57 -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > Just one more service I don't really need running, and I need to make > sure it is secure. Security shouldn't be a big concern. Sendmail is pretty secure on most distro's installation. On Fedora/Red Hat for example, the only ports listening by default are on localhost. As long as the solution can handle message loss (when the remote SMTP server is unavailable) then lack of queuing shouldn't be a problem. What about system messages? You must be running a real stripped down system. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 14:47:19 2006 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 10:47:19 -0400 Subject: using sendmail without the service running In-Reply-To: <1157809292.12937.42.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <20060907054049.GA7758@waltdnes.org> <69322A0C-9FF2-4AF4-B0B5-E2308670123A@visibleassets.com> <4502A818.3090009@quadratic.net> <76EB519C-531F-4102-B75B-FD2267DF8FDF@visibleassets.com> <1157809292.12937.42.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <8A35CCFF-4B73-4F3C-9BA8-421BF56526F2@visibleassets.com> On 9-Sep-06, at 9:41 AM, John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 07:57 -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: >> Just one more service I don't really need running, and I need to make >> sure it is secure. > > Security shouldn't be a big concern. Sendmail is pretty secure on most > distro's installation. On Fedora/Red Hat for example, the only ports > listening by default are on localhost. Good point > > As long as the solution can handle message loss (when the remote SMTP > server is unavailable) then lack of queuing shouldn't be a problem. this is rare, as the SMTP server that I have is on the same local area network > > What about system messages? You must be running a real stripped down > system. They are punted off the box as well. There are certainly cases where I do run very small linux versions, yes. > > -- > John Van Ostrand > Net Direct Inc. > > Chief Technology Officer > 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 > Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 > map > john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org > Ph: 519-883-1172 > ext.5102 > Linux Solutions / IBM > Hardware > Fx: 519-883-8533 > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 15:00:04 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 11:00:04 -0400 Subject: database schema visualization tools? In-Reply-To: References: <4386c5b20609071245r165b6ec0y6a36341b84d8ac7f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200609091100.04685.softquake@gmail.com> On Thursday 07 September 2006 17:17, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 9/7/06, Aaron Vegh wrote: > > Hi there, > > I'm looking for an open source package that will allow me to visualize > > tables in a relational database (mysql in this case, but the database > > itself is irrelevant). A tool that lets me enter database table names > > and column names, and then either draw or otherwise indicate > > relationships between the fields. The result would be a visual schema > > showing the tables with lines connecting them together. > > > > Does anything like this exist? > > DIA has been used for this... > > There's a package called postgresql_autodoc which transforms DB > schemas into diagrams in several formats. It's really quite > DB-specific, but it might be possible to take an analagous approach > with MySQL(tm), perhaps... There is no ANY documentation for postgresql_autodoc . This is silly. The author spend time to write a possibly usefull software but did not care to explain even what are command line arguments. So often that happens. Sure, I could guess by looking into the code how to use it... But it did not work in my case anyway.. Exit code 2. ;) zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 15:33:34 2006 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 11:33:34 -0400 Subject: In praise of the FP-45 :-) (was: Re:Hardware experiences?) In-Reply-To: <20060909040323.72026.qmail-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: Message-ID: <4502A68E.29651.150A5314@sciguy.vex.net> On 9 Sep 2006 at 0:03, Colin McGregor wrote: > --- "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: > > On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, James Knott wrote: > > > > > > You mean there are some people who actually don't > > need a 64 bit version > > > of vi? ;-) > > > > Or any version, for that matter. > > Now, now... I have dealt with old Sun boxes where the > only editor awailable was vi. So vi has its place, for > things like editing network configuration files, so > you can go out on to the Internet and download a nice > text editing program :-) . > > In other words I see vi as being like the World War II > FP-45 Liberator pistol, a REALLY cheap and REALLY > nasty pistol that was given out to resistance groups > in Europe and Asia. The standing "joke" about the > FP-45 was that you only used it to kill someone with a > better gun and then threw the FP-45 away... With vi, > use it to get something better and then ... > > Colin McGregor > I would only agree if you are using pure vi. There are vi clones, such as elvis, vim that are much more configurable. Many people dislike the idea of "command mode/edit mode" that vi uses. I feel that it is the most efficient way to navigate a large document or large chunk of source code. I also like the idea that vi by design can be used on nearly any keyboard with a QWERTY key layout. I still use pure BSD-style vi when I have no choice (such as my vex account, where elvis doesn't seem to configure all that well). It has a reduced command set, and thus reduced configurability. "Pure" vi lacks syntax highlighting, help menus, and several configuration commands that I make regular use of under elvis, such as "se nowr" to prevent text wrapping. My vex account has vim, although it seems to run with a lot of warnings, so I don't use it all that much. Also, elvis has the ability to run makefiles from inside the editor, using ":make". vim also seems to have this feature. When there is an error relating to a line number, elvis will bring your cursor to that line. And of course, there is emacs, of which I have only ever used xemacs, and only then in viper mode. While I don't want to start a religious war over vi versus emacs, I can't see how hitting two, three, or more keys -- including various control and meta keys -- for an editing command under emacs is more efficient than hitting one key for doing something similar, as is typical in vi. Just my opinion. Of course, emacs has a million other things it can do, but for that I have the rest of Linux. I guess I direct this question mostly at Colin: Were you implying that emacs would be something better? If not, what else? nedit? pico? Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 16:39:25 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 12:39:25 -0400 Subject: In praise of the FP-45 :-) In-Reply-To: <4502A68E.29651.150A5314-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <4502A68E.29651.150A5314@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <200609091239.25351.softquake@gmail.com> On Saturday 09 September 2006 11:33, Paul King wrote: > On 9 Sep 2006 at 0:03, Colin McGregor wrote: > > better gun and then threw the FP-45 away... With vi, > > use it to get something better and then ... > > > > Colin McGregor > > I would only agree if you are using pure vi. > I guess I direct this question mostly at Colin: Were you implying that > emacs would be something better? If not, what else? nedit? pico? Some nostalgy? vi is usefull. When I started to use my early Linux skills for bread and butter I asked naively a more experienced co-worker: why should I care about editing /etc files on Linux? Am I not root? Well, there is yet God above root... And bad luck. Thats where vi comes handy. It happens that I often work with huge text files (hundreeds of MB or more). Is there any other text editor one can use with these large files? Perhaps there is. Certainly vi is one. Nedit can handle up to a few tens of MB only (depending on the amount of memory, swap, etc). pico will crash with a few MB. vi will work with any size. zb. > Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 18:17:14 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 14:17:14 -0400 Subject: Audio DVD? In-Reply-To: <20060908174549.GR13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200609022024.30020.mervc@eol.ca> <20060908174549.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200609091417.14330.mervc@eol.ca> On Friday 08 September 2006 13:45, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Most dvd players don't support DVD-Audio disks (whatever they are). > DVD's do not support the audio format CDs use (audio CDs use just around > 2400 bytes per block with some ECC code, while data CDs use 2048 bytes > per block with the extra bytes used for a lot more ECC code since data > has to be right while audio just has to be mostly right when read). > DVDs are always using full data blocks and have no concept of an audio > disk. Some players can play wav or mp3 or other audio files stored on a > DVD, but it isn't part of the DVD spec. > > -- Hello Lennart How do you keep so much information in that encyclopedia between your ears? Thanks very much, an explanation that adds to my limited knowledge. I gathered that audio CD's were more like tape, no filesystem and just blocks of data [audio] with something called CDR in the mix. Now I have ECC something or other. I have yet to find a resource dealing with all these digital audio basics. In my ignorance I hoped a DVD was a 12" LP disk compared to a 10". Obviously the DVD electronics are quite different from CD. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 18:22:42 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 14:22:42 -0400 Subject: In praise of the FP-45 :-) (was: Re:Hardware experiences?) In-Reply-To: <4502A68E.29651.150A5314-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <4502A68E.29651.150A5314@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <1157826162.4597.70.camel@stan64.site> what really rocks is vi embedded in a GUI editor, (best of both worlds) look at slickedit and get blown away. I down loaded a trial, and had no choose to buy it, its just in a class all by itself. There should be a project to make a opensource/free version of this puppy, but to my knowledge there isnt. -tl On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 11:33 -0400, Paul King wrote: > On 9 Sep 2006 at 0:03, Colin McGregor wrote: > > > --- "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: > > > On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, James Knott wrote: > > > > > > > > You mean there are some people who actually don't > > > need a 64 bit version > > > > of vi? ;-) > > > > > > Or any version, for that matter. > > > > Now, now... I have dealt with old Sun boxes where the > > only editor awailable was vi. So vi has its place, for > > things like editing network configuration files, so > > you can go out on to the Internet and download a nice > > text editing program :-) . > > > > In other words I see vi as being like the World War II > > FP-45 Liberator pistol, a REALLY cheap and REALLY > > nasty pistol that was given out to resistance groups > > in Europe and Asia. The standing "joke" about the > > FP-45 was that you only used it to kill someone with a > > better gun and then threw the FP-45 away... With vi, > > use it to get something better and then ... > > > > Colin McGregor > > > > I would only agree if you are using pure vi. There are vi clones, such as > elvis, vim that are much more configurable. Many people dislike the idea of > "command mode/edit mode" that vi uses. I feel that it is the most efficient > way to navigate a large document or large chunk of source code. I also like > the idea that vi by design can be used on nearly any keyboard with a QWERTY > key layout. > > I still use pure BSD-style vi when I have no choice (such as my vex > account, where elvis doesn't seem to configure all that well). It has a > reduced command set, and thus reduced configurability. "Pure" vi lacks > syntax highlighting, help menus, and several configuration commands that I > make regular use of under elvis, such as "se nowr" to prevent text > wrapping. My vex account has vim, although it seems to run with a lot of > warnings, so I don't use it all that much. > > Also, elvis has the ability to run makefiles from inside the editor, using > ":make". vim also seems to have this feature. When there is an error > relating to a line number, elvis will bring your cursor to that line. > > And of course, there is emacs, of which I have only ever used xemacs, and > only then in viper mode. While I don't want to start a religious war over > vi versus emacs, I can't see how hitting two, three, or more keys -- > including various control and meta keys -- for an editing command under > emacs is more efficient than hitting one key for doing something similar, > as is typical in vi. Just my opinion. Of course, emacs has a million other > things it can do, but for that I have the rest of Linux. > > I guess I direct this question mostly at Colin: Were you implying that > emacs would be something better? If not, what else? nedit? pico? > > Paul King > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 20:26:04 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 16:26:04 -0400 Subject: In praise of the FP-45 :-) (was: Re:Hardware experiences?) In-Reply-To: <1157826162.4597.70.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <4502A68E.29651.150A5314@sciguy.vex.net> <1157826162.4597.70.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: The whole point of vi and vim is that your hands don't have to move out of the home position to get anything done. Good for avoiding RSI if you ask me, but bad if you're using the mouse more than the keyboard for other apps you're running at the time. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 03:18:42 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 23:18:42 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901201309.7098.qmail@web61323.mail.yahoo.com> <20060908172213.GM13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 9/8/06, Simon wrote: > In my humble opinon, sticking with 32-bit is much, much easier, unless > you have too much RAM. Too much closed source crap to worry about, > and it doesn't make a significant difference in performance. I mean, > of course, some people aren't doing it for that reason, they just want > to early-adopt, and then my logic is irrelevant.. Also, I only tried > 64-bit stuff when I was still a bit of a newb. For a very large number of the "use cases," this is complete rubbish. One definition of "average" for "average Linux box" is that it is a system sitting at an ISP running Apache, SSH, Perl, Python, PHP, and perhaps one of the free software databases. There are a LOT of those systems out there, and they perfectly well take advantage of 64 bit architectures. The prime "use case" where 64 bit *presently* falls down somewhat is what strikes me as a MINORITY scenario, namely "Attempted Windows Replacement," where you need fairly much virus-for-virus compatibility deployed to people for whom any difference between what they get and the way Windows does things represents a bug. If what you actually want is Windows, then it seems to me that Microsoft does a better job of deploying that. I migrated my home systems to Alpha and AMD-64 some time ago and haven't had *any* 32 bit Linux around for at least a year or so now. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 03:26:22 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 23:26:22 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <4502AB70.9070208-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060909040323.72026.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4502AB70.9070208@quadratic.net> Message-ID: On 9/9/06, David Thornton wrote: > I would liken vi to an AK-47. > > Cheap, everywhere, with a healthly list of features ( single, semi and > full automatic) ... and able to destroy entire documents with a single :s/^.*$//g :-) I'm an Emacs guy, and Tramp mode (Transparent Remote Access, Multiple Protocols) now gives me the ability to access any documents I can get to via (ssh|rsh|rsync|scp|sudo|telnet). But it's frequent enough that I'm logged in somewhere where only vi is an option that it appears I have absorbed enough of that I'm often showing "vi people" what to do :-). -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 03:33:58 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 23:33:58 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <20060908144320.GJ13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060905223948.e5283560.hgibson@eol.ca> <4500022E.1090409@rogers.com> <20060908144320.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 9/8/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 07, 2006 at 07:27:42AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > > You're lucky. When I took Fortran, BASIC and Pascal courses there, back > > in the mid '80s, we couldn't even use floppies. We used an IBM > > mainframe there and the only way to get the code out, was via print out > > or dial up access. > > > > When I took C at George Brown College in 1995, we could use 3.5" > > floppies. However, in class we used Turbo C on Windows 3.1, while at > > home I used Borland C on OS/2, so I had to be careful about variable > > sizes. For example an int was 16 bits in Borland C, but only 8 in > > Turbo. On occasion, my code would work fine at home, but crap out in > > class because I'd overflowed a variable. > > Don't 8 bit integers violate the C standard? I thought it required > integer to be at least 16 bits. On a PIC, they could almost certainly be 8 bits :-) The sizes of char/short/int/long are not required to be any particular size in the standard. If memory serves, the relationship needs to hold that: sizeof(char) <= sizeof(short) <= sizeof(int) <= sizeof(long) But having 8 bit ints *is* consistent with... 8 <= 8 <= 8 <= 16 There used to be weirder platforms out there, such as systems with 12 bit registers, as well as Crays, where, if memory serves, the relationship was more like... 64 <= 64 <= 64 <= 64 (e.g. - a char was 64 bits long) Having an int 8 bits wide strikes me as being troublesome, for practical reasons, but it doesn't forcibly have to be nonstandard :-). -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From lfeder-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 21:49:23 2006 From: lfeder-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 23:49:23 +0200 Subject: Viewing tripwires-security attempts-cookiejar logs via a web interface Message-ID: I would like to secure login locally or remotely via a web browser to 1) monitor selected system logs, maybe tripwire logs, login attempts, failed and successful attempts 2) read the firewall text file and also report login attempts there also I am not having a security problem. I just get hassled by having to review some security logs via VNC or locally. I do have webmin installed, perhaps there is a webmin module? /teddy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 05:50:59 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 01:50:59 -0400 Subject: Viewing tripwires-security attempts-cookiejar logs via a web interface In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <32f6a8880609092250y103d5f3cxe02d562d47074e7d@mail.gmail.com> You could use SSL or use SSH tunnelingwith VNC no? On 9/9/06, Teddy Mills wrote: > > > I would like to secure login locally or remotely via a web browser to > > 1) monitor selected system logs, maybe tripwire logs, login attempts, > failed and successful attempts > 2) read the firewall text file and also report login attempts there also > > I am not having a security problem. > I just get hassled by having to review some security logs via VNC or > locally. > > I do have webmin installed, perhaps there is a webmin module? > > /teddy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lfeder-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 01:19:53 2006 From: lfeder-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 03:19:53 +0200 Subject: Viewing tripwires-security attempts-cookiejar logs via a web interface In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880609092250y103d5f3cxe02d562d47074e7d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880609092250y103d5f3cxe02d562d47074e7d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: What about getting a remote desktop via a HTTP web session? (or JAVA) /teddy Dave Germiquet wrote: > You could use SSL or use SSH tunnelingwith VNC no? > > On 9/9/06, *Teddy Mills* > wrote: > > > I would like to secure login locally or remotely via a web browser to > > 1) monitor selected system logs, maybe tripwire logs, login attempts, > failed and successful attempts > 2) read the firewall text file and also report login attempts > there also > > I am not having a security problem. > I just get hassled by having to review some security logs via VNC or > locally. > > I do have webmin installed, perhaps there is a webmin module? > > /teddy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 08:09:09 2006 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 04:09:09 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060905223948.e5283560.hgibson@eol.ca> <4500022E.1090409@rogers.com> <20060908144320.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060910080909.GA5739@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 11:33:58PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > The sizes of char/short/int/long are not required to be any particular > size in the standard. If memory serves, the relationship needs to > hold that: > > sizeof(char) <= sizeof(short) <= sizeof(int) <= sizeof(long) > > But having 8 bit ints *is* consistent with... > > 8 <= 8 <= 8 <= 16 But it is not consistant with the other rule about the size of an int - an int has to have enough bits to hold a pointer. For any machine with more than 256 addressable units, an 8-bit int doesn't work. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From lfeder-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 02:18:09 2006 From: lfeder-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 04:18:09 +0200 Subject: access your linux desktop remotely from any java-enabled web browser Message-ID: So I portforwarded 5800/5801 and 5900/5901 to my linux server and from any java-based web browser, I can now get to my gnome desktop. ie. http://www.yourserver.com:5800 I always thought I had to use the realvnc application. On many remote computers, you cannot just add realvnc if they dont have it. As for my previous post about viewing remote secure logs via http. I dont need that at all now. This solution is a million times better. As Peter Griffin on Family Guy says.....SWWWWEEEET! /teddy BTW, You can do the same thing with Windows (but I think you need to have IIS running ack!) http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/networking/expert/northrup_03may16.mspx . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 11:30:37 2006 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 07:30:37 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <20060910080909.GA5739-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>; from john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org on Sun, Sep 10, 2006 at 04:09:09 -0400 References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060905223948.e5283560.hgibson@eol.ca> <4500022E.1090409@rogers.com> <20060908144320.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060910080909.GA5739@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20060910113037.GA1997@localhost> On Sun Sep 10,2006 04:09:09 AM John Macdonald wrote: > But it is not consistant with the other rule about the > size of an int - an int has to have enough bits to > hold a pointer. I don't believe that this statement is correct. A pointer can be converted to an "integral type", which can be an int, short int, or long int. Therefore, a plain "int" can be 8 bits even if a pointer requires 16 bits. On such a system the pointer could be held in a long int (assuming that on this system a long int is at least 16 bits). -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 12:24:16 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 07:24:16 -0500 Subject: access your linux desktop remotely from any java-enabled web browser In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e55af990609100524x191ce06dw937fe19f2f70135d@mail.gmail.com> On 9/9/06, Teddy Mills wrote: > > So I portforwarded 5800/5801 and 5900/5901 to my linux server and from > any java-based web browser, > I can now get to my gnome desktop. ie. http://www.yourserver.com:5800 I need more information.. what application is running on your sever to make this desktop sharing possible? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 12:48:18 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 08:48:18 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <20060910080909.GA5739-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060905223948.e5283560.hgibson@eol.ca> <4500022E.1090409@rogers.com> <20060908144320.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060910080909.GA5739@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <45040992.5060908@rogers.com> John Macdonald wrote: > On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 11:33:58PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: >> The sizes of char/short/int/long are not required to be any particular >> size in the standard. If memory serves, the relationship needs to >> hold that: >> >> sizeof(char) <= sizeof(short) <= sizeof(int) <= sizeof(long) >> >> But having 8 bit ints *is* consistent with... >> >> 8 <= 8 <= 8 <= 16 > > But it is not consistant with the other rule about the > size of an int - an int has to have enough bits to > hold a pointer. For any machine with more than 256 > addressable units, an 8-bit int doesn't work. > As I mentioned in another wrong, I was probably wrong about the actual int sizes, but was correct in that the sizes were different between Turbo C on DOS and Borland C on OS/2. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 13:11:07 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 09:11:07 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901201309.7098.qmail@web61323.mail.yahoo.com> <20060908172213.GM13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: You know, if the OP was talking about making a server box, you'd be right, and I totally agree with you, but it looks like he's talking about making a desktop system. You seem to incorrectly think that the Linux desktop use case always involves a need for an unnatural compatibility with windows. I'm using it in a desktop situation, and I definitely don't want it to emulate Windows the way you describe. However, if I want to run flash, or mplayer with the closed source codecs, or any free software app that hasn't been ported to 64-bit (I know, these apps should be ashamed), I need to be running those apps in 32-bit mode. So my point was just that I don't think it's worth it to boot up in 64-bit rather than just run everything in 32-bit and not have to worry about this stuff until I see some decisive benchmarks that prove me wrong. If you're using the box as a server, then yes, I agree with you, you might as well use 64-bit, no matter what, cause the cons go away. On 9/9/06, Christopher Browne wrote: > For a very large number of the "use cases," this is complete rubbish. > > One definition of "average" for "average Linux box" is that it is a > system sitting at an ISP running Apache, SSH, Perl, Python, PHP, and > perhaps one of the free software databases. > > There are a LOT of those systems out there, and they perfectly well > take advantage of 64 bit architectures. > > The prime "use case" where 64 bit *presently* falls down somewhat is > what strikes me as a MINORITY scenario, namely "Attempted Windows > Replacement," where you need fairly much virus-for-virus compatibility > deployed to people for whom any difference between what they get and > the way Windows does things represents a bug. > > If what you actually want is Windows, then it seems to me that > Microsoft does a better job of deploying that. > > I migrated my home systems to Alpha and AMD-64 some time ago and > haven't had *any* 32 bit Linux around for at least a year or so now. > -- > http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html > Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This > is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and > `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From lfeder-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 07:38:21 2006 From: lfeder-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 09:38:21 +0200 Subject: access your linux desktop remotely from any java-enabled web browser In-Reply-To: <1e55af990609100524x191ce06dw937fe19f2f70135d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990609100524x191ce06dw937fe19f2f70135d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sy, The setup I am using is... 1. From the internet (doesnt matter who it is) Goes into an IPCOP firewall box 2. IPCOP firewall box does the portforwarding (very easy and quick changes via web interface) ports 5800 5801 (remote desktop via a web browser ) are forwarded to my NAT INTERNAL Linux server 5802, 5803 I portforward to some internal Win boxes (just match their realvnc settings to 5802 or 5803 etc.) 3. Linux server is a RHEL4, and already has "Remote Desktop" application, that lets you connect the desktop remotely. 4. If you dont have the app installed, just download it from realvnc.com 5. Make sure vncserver, and vncconfig, and vncpasswd are setup on your linux server....and GNOME or KDE as you like it... 6. http://yourip.com:5800 from any java enabled web browser should get you to your linux server desktop! (I use dynamic dns, so I dont have to remember the IP anymore) Sy Ali wrote: > On 9/9/06, Teddy Mills wrote: >> >> So I portforwarded 5800/5801 and 5900/5901 to my linux server and from >> any java-based web browser, >> I can now get to my gnome desktop. ie. http://www.yourserver.com:5800 > > I need more information.. what application is running on your sever to > make this desktop sharing possible? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 14:15:23 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 10:15:23 -0400 Subject: access your linux desktop remotely from any java-enabled web browser In-Reply-To: <450375E1.9030307-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <450375E1.9030307@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1157897723.7721.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-09-10 at 04:18 +0200, Teddy Mills wrote: > As Peter Griffin on Family Guy says.....SWWWWEEEET! FREAKIN' sweeeet, nya, ha, ha, ha, ha > BTW, You can do the same thing with Windows (but I think you need to > have IIS running ack!) No IIS needed. Port 5800 is the vncserver mini http server designed to simply push out the java applet which then connects back to port 5900. You may be able to close ports 5801 and 5901, those would be for a second desktop. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 09:21:49 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 10:21:49 +0100 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901201309.7098.qmail@web61323.mail.yahoo.com> <20060908172213.GM13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4503D92D.7040907@utoronto.ca> Simon wrote: > You know, if the OP was talking about making a server box, you'd be > right, and I totally agree with you, but it looks like he's talking > about making a desktop system. You seem to incorrectly think that > the Linux desktop use case always involves a need for an unnatural > compatibility with windows. I'm using it in a desktop situation, and > I definitely don't want it to emulate Windows the way you describe. > However, if I want to run flash, or mplayer with the closed source > codecs, or any free software app that hasn't been ported to 64-bit (I > know, these apps should be ashamed), I need to be running those apps > in 32-bit mode. So my point was just that I don't think it's worth it > to boot up in 64-bit rather than just run everything in 32-bit and not > have to worry about this stuff until I see some decisive benchmarks > that prove me wrong. http://www.linuxhardware.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/24/1747228 is the best of the three (read most favourable to 64 bit :) http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5768 for a SPARC based comparison, most compelling benchmark to stay with 32bit (on SPARC anyways) http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1665&page=9 for a windows based 32 vs 64bit comparison, again, 64 is favoured. http://www.anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.aspx?i=2447&p=5 some database benchmarks, opteron and xeon, 32 and 64bit comparisons (gentoo users take note of the "standard tuned Gentoo installation") -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 14:56:20 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 10:56:20 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <4503D92D.7040907-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901201309.7098.qmail@web61323.mail.yahoo.com> <20060908172213.GM13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4503D92D.7040907@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: In some of the benchmarks, the difference is pretty convincing, maybe I ought to rethink my position.. I knew 64-bit was generally faster on Athlon 64 chips, but I thought it was a more subtle boost than what was had with oggenc and povray. Then again, I don't do either of those things often ;) I think if I was installing a new system I'd consider it, but I'm too lazy and full of FUD to migrate my existing installs. I don't have a lot of HDD space to work with either, otherwise I'd just make new installs. The OP is on a desktop system, so he can have as many OS installs as he wants, with a reasonable price for the storage. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From tentra-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 14:57:25 2006 From: tentra-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Seneca Cunningham) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 10:57:25 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <20060910080909.GA5739-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060905223948.e5283560.hgibson@eol.ca> <4500022E.1090409@rogers.com> <20060908144320.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060910080909.GA5739@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: On 10-Sep-2006, at 04:09 :09, John Macdonald wrote: > On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 11:33:58PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: >> The sizes of char/short/int/long are not required to be any >> particular >> size in the standard. If memory serves, the relationship needs to >> hold that: >> >> sizeof(char) <= sizeof(short) <= sizeof(int) <= sizeof(long) >> >> But having 8 bit ints *is* consistent with... >> >> 8 <= 8 <= 8 <= 16 > > But it is not consistant with the other rule about the > size of an int - an int has to have enough bits to > hold a pointer. For any machine with more than 256 > addressable units, an 8-bit int doesn't work. What rule? I've dealt with systems that are ILP32 and LP64 (which one is determined by compiler flags). AIX is one of them, and if my recollections of porting are correct, Linux on AMD64 is another. The assumption that many 32-bit developers seem to hold that an int is the same width as a pointer causes porting delays. -- Seneca Cunningham tentra-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 16:29:37 2006 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 12:29:37 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060905223948.e5283560.hgibson@eol.ca> <4500022E.1090409@rogers.com> <20060908144320.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060910080909.GA5739@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20060910162937.GA7291@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Sun, Sep 10, 2006 at 10:57:25AM -0400, Seneca Cunningham wrote: > > On 10-Sep-2006, at 04:09 :09, John Macdonald wrote: > > >On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 11:33:58PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > >>The sizes of char/short/int/long are not required to be any > >>particular > >>size in the standard. If memory serves, the relationship needs to > >>hold that: > >> > >> sizeof(char) <= sizeof(short) <= sizeof(int) <= sizeof(long) > >> > >>But having 8 bit ints *is* consistent with... > >> > >> 8 <= 8 <= 8 <= 16 > > > >But it is not consistant with the other rule about the > >size of an int - an int has to have enough bits to > >hold a pointer. For any machine with more than 256 > >addressable units, an 8-bit int doesn't work. > > What rule? I've dealt with systems that are ILP32 and LP64 (which > one is determined by compiler flags). AIX is one of them, and if my > recollections of porting are correct, Linux on AMD64 is another. The > assumption that many 32-bit developers seem to hold that an int is > the same width as a pointer causes porting delays. Sorry, I meant to write "rule" instead of rule. It is not a real rule, but it was a programming practice for a long time. Because the default type for a function is int, and int was "always" large enough to hold a pointer, people would not bother to specify the type of functions when they were just copying the results around. K&R (original edition) warned about this practice ("a rather cavalier attitude toward copying pointers"). It meant that compiler designers were knowingly choosing to have portability problems if they used a smaller size for int than pointer. So, it tended to be done only for cross-compilers that were targetting stand-alone device controllers that were not going to be used as general purpose computers (and for which porting existing programs was not such an important issue). -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 15:47:30 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 10:47:30 -0500 Subject: access your linux desktop remotely from any java-enabled web browser In-Reply-To: References: <1e55af990609100524x191ce06dw937fe19f2f70135d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990609100847l5b756c88y9a1e8fb227a70d7b@mail.gmail.com> On 9/10/06, Teddy Mills wrote: > 3. Linux server is a RHEL4, and already has "Remote Desktop" > application, that lets you connect the desktop remotely. What is "Remote Desktop"? To my knowledge, vncserver does not provide the web server and java application.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 17:30:19 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 13:30:19 -0400 Subject: filter unwanted domains? In-Reply-To: <4501CFBE.5070803-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <4501CB07.7000503@vianet.ca> <4501CFBE.5070803@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <45044BAB.2070505@vianet.ca> Stephen Allen wrote: >Chris Aitken wrote: > > >>I get a lot of spam. >> >>Is there a way I can set a rule or set up a filter to send messages to >>senders that they need to email me again and have me accept them? Then I >>could add their domain to my friendly-domain list or somesuch. So, for >>instance, I could add ***@dsb1.edu.on.ca as friendly domain, or as I'm >>dealing with Sears now I could add sears.ca - that sort of thing... >> >>Obviously I don't know what I'm talking about. However, I've received >>returns to my emails where an organisation has done this - then I email >>them again and they add me to some list so subsequnet emails will be >>accepted. >> >> > >You're probably thinking of Challenge Response, > Yeah, that sounds like it. >which is in my opinion >and that of others as a flawed model for combating SPAM/UCE. > > How come? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 17:49:49 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 13:49:49 -0400 Subject: filter unwanted domains? In-Reply-To: <45044BAB.2070505-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4501CB07.7000503@vianet.ca> <4501CFBE.5070803@yahoo.ca> <45044BAB.2070505@vianet.ca> Message-ID: Cause the response part is a pain, and automated mailers, like mailing lists and such, can't do it. Definitely not worth the trouble when there are other methods of spam filtering that work better with less effort. Not that I'm recommending this, but as a better example, gmail's spam filtering is top-notch. You can't really ask for less effort than having to look through the spam folder now and then, it's been very accurate for me. On 9/10/06, Chris Aitken wrote: > How come? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 17:58:32 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 13:58:32 -0400 Subject: filter unwanted domains? In-Reply-To: References: <4501CB07.7000503@vianet.ca> <4501CFBE.5070803@yahoo.ca> <45044BAB.2070505@vianet.ca> Message-ID: <45045248.3010804@vianet.ca> Simon wrote: > Cause the response part is a pain, and automated mailers, like mailing > lists and such, can't do it. Definitely not worth the trouble when > there are other methods of spam filtering that work better with less > effort. Not that I'm recommending this, but as a better example, > gmail's spam filtering is top-notch. You can't really ask for less > effort than having to look through the spam folder now and then, it's > been very accurate for me. I'm not sure I like the idea of google having a record of all my emails... Also, I'm trying the filter that THunderbird has. I think that's the same as what you're talking about - any mail not from domains x y and z go to folder 'holding tank'. I'll check that every now and then for anything of import. Does that sound doable? Similar to your solution? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 18:43:48 2006 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:43:48 -0400 Subject: filter unwanted domains? In-Reply-To: <45044BAB.2070505-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4501CB07.7000503@vianet.ca> <4501CFBE.5070803@yahoo.ca> <45044BAB.2070505@vianet.ca> Message-ID: <45045CE4.2030504@yahoo.ca> On 10/09/2006 Chris Aitken wrote: > > which is in my opinion > > and that of others as a flawed model for combating SPAM/UCE. > > > > > How come? Well, Chris that information is a Google search away -- Here is one source of many; A quote from the URL: "Since more and more sites will rightly block these challenge emails, you can never be sure they will reach their target even when they are not misdirected themselves. So these systems will lose legitimate mail in an attempt to stop unwanted mail." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 18:54:23 2006 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:54:23 -0400 Subject: filter unwanted domains? In-Reply-To: <45045248.3010804-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4501CB07.7000503@vianet.ca> <4501CFBE.5070803@yahoo.ca> <45044BAB.2070505@vianet.ca> <45045248.3010804@vianet.ca> Message-ID: <45045F5F.5030204@yahoo.ca> Chris Aitken wrote: [...] > I'm not sure I like the idea of google having a record of all my emails... OK Fair enough. Are you that controversial ? ;) > Also, I'm trying the filter that THunderbird has. I think that's the > same as what you're talking about - any mail not from domains x y and z > go to folder 'holding tank'. I'll check that every now and then for > anything of import. Does that sound doable? Similar to your solution? Thunderbird's Bayesian filtering works great. Like all of these filter mechanisms, it's only as good as how it's trained/implemented by the end user (You). So, to start off, get all the SPAM and good e-mail (in the hundred's if not thousands) and tell T-Bird's JUNK filters which is good and bad in mass. Then you'll have some good junk filtering capability from the start. Then onwards, you'll have to tell T-Bird of each false positive and each SPAM that makes it through -- So the JUNK rules keep getting updated. Eventually you'll find that very little SPAM will make it through to your Inbox. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 19:13:24 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 15:13:24 -0400 Subject: filter unwanted domains? In-Reply-To: <4501CB07.7000503-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4501CB07.7000503@vianet.ca> Message-ID: <200609101513.25161.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Friday 08 September 2006 15:56, Chris Aitken wrote: > Is there a way I can set a rule or set up a filter to send messages to > senders that they need to email me again and have me accept them? Then I My $0.02 on that approach. I used TMDA for about 2 years to do this automatically. It worked very well (I got no spam). Here is the rough approach I used * pre-filter all mailing list mail to dedicated folders * pre-populate my white list from all my known recipients * pre-filter and whitelist a few domains from which I expect automated mails (chapters.ca for example) The only emails I get from random senders are from people privately replying to mailing list messages I might have sent. Those people are generally competent enough to read and understand the automated message I have sent them. No doubt I missed a few emails but I don't care that much about it. If you expected a lot of emails from random non-technical users then I think TMDA-like approaches would be much more trouble than they're worth. I was very happy with TMDA's performance for me personally but the fact that I was generating emails to unknown recipients bothered me a bit. Since lots of spam randomizes sender addresses this approach does (I suspect) result in a lot of innocent people getting the "junk" TMDA replies. Now I use greylisting and it works very well for me. Greylisting was 100% successful for me at first (zero non-list spams, versus 100-200 per day without greylisting) but these days 5-10 spams still get through. I like greylisting because it doesn't end up in emails being silently discarded (spam folder or /dev/null) and (for legitimate senders) if something goes wrong they should at least be informed of the fact that their message bounced. One issue issue with greylisting and TMDA is that neither approach addresses spam coming via mailing lists to which you subscribe. That's not much of an issue for me since I don't have much patience for lists which don't control their spam problems. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 20:59:33 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 16:59:33 -0400 Subject: iso-8859-2 encoding problem on filesystem In-Reply-To: <200609091239.25351.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4502A68E.29651.150A5314@sciguy.vex.net> <200609091239.25351.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200609101659.34368.softquake@gmail.com> I have got some songs in Polish from the Internet, recorded them on CD. I am able to play them by drugging by mouse to RealPlayer. But I can not open them in another way or copy them under a different file name to hard drive. They contain some Polish signs in iso-8859-2 (I guess) which are displayed in terminal window as ?'s . Midnight Commander used to deal perfectly well with similar problems but not this time. It looks like the system does not recognize the file names. How to make a copy of them under a different filename? zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 21:01:54 2006 From: sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Steve Harvey) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 17:01:54 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <20060910162937.GA7291-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060905223948.e5283560.hgibson@eol.ca> <4500022E.1090409@rogers.com> <20060908144320.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060910080909.GA5739@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20060910162937.GA7291@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20060910210154.GC9713@shell.vex.net> On Sun, Sep 10, 2006 at 12:29:37PM -0400, John Macdonald wrote: > On Sun, Sep 10, 2006 at 10:57:25AM -0400, Seneca Cunningham wrote: > > > > On 10-Sep-2006, at 04:09 :09, John Macdonald wrote: > > > > >On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 11:33:58PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > > >>The sizes of char/short/int/long are not required to be any > > >>particular > > >>size in the standard. If memory serves, the relationship needs to > > >>hold that: > > >> > > >> sizeof(char) <= sizeof(short) <= sizeof(int) <= sizeof(long) > > >> > > >>But having 8 bit ints *is* consistent with... > > >> > > >> 8 <= 8 <= 8 <= 16 > > > > > >But it is not consistant with the other rule about the > > >size of an int - an int has to have enough bits to > > >hold a pointer. For any machine with more than 256 > > >addressable units, an 8-bit int doesn't work. > > > > What rule? I've dealt with systems that are ILP32 and LP64 (which > > one is determined by compiler flags). AIX is one of them, and if my > > recollections of porting are correct, Linux on AMD64 is another. The > > assumption that many 32-bit developers seem to hold that an int is > > the same width as a pointer causes porting delays. > > Sorry, I meant to write "rule" instead of rule. > > It is not a real rule, but it was a programming practice for > a long time. Because the default type for a function is int, > and int was "always" large enough to hold a pointer, people > would not bother to specify the type of functions when they > were just copying the results around. K&R (original edition) > warned about this practice ("a rather cavalier attitude toward > copying pointers"). > > It meant that compiler designers were knowingly choosing to > have portability problems if they used a smaller size for int > than pointer. So, it tended to be done only for cross-compilers > that were targetting stand-alone device controllers that were > not going to be used as general purpose computers (and for which > porting existing programs was not such an important issue). > This was a major issue in porting System III Unix to the Honeywell Level 6. Storage was addressed as 16-bit words; if you needed a char *, a 16-bit index was tacked onto the pointer making a grand total of 48 bits. Other pointers stayed at 32 bits, which, if memory serves me correctly, was sizeof(long), with int being 16 bits. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 21:20:50 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 17:20:50 -0400 Subject: iso-8859-2 encoding problem on filesystem In-Reply-To: <200609101659.34368.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4502A68E.29651.150A5314@sciguy.vex.net> <200609091239.25351.softquake@gmail.com> <200609101659.34368.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: Try tab completion in a terminal, or looking at the files in nautilus or konqueror. Not sure though. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 21:28:05 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 17:28:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: iso-8859-2 encoding problem on filesystem In-Reply-To: <200609101659.34368.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4502A68E.29651.150A5314@sciguy.vex.net> <200609091239.25351.softquake@gmail.com> <200609101659.34368.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Sep 2006, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > I have got some songs in Polish from the Internet, recorded them on CD. > > I am able to play them by drugging by mouse to RealPlayer. > > But I can not open them in another way or copy them under a different file > name to hard drive. They contain some Polish signs in iso-8859-2 (I guess) > which are displayed in terminal window as ?'s . Midnight Commander used to > deal perfectly well with similar problems but not this time. It looks like > the system does not recognize the file names. > > How to make a copy of them under a different filename? Use wildcards in a shell, e.g.: for file in *.mp3 do newname=${file//[^a-zA-Z0-9.-_]/} mv "$file" "$newname" done -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 10 00:45:41 2006 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 20:45:41 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <20060909040323.72026.qmail-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060909040323.72026.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060909204541.461dc5ac.hgibson@eol.ca> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006 00:03:23 -0400 (EDT) Colin McGregor wrote: > > In other words I see vi as being like the World War II > FP-45 Liberator pistol, a REALLY cheap and REALLY > nasty pistol that was given out to resistance groups > in Europe and Asia. The standing "joke" about the > FP-45 was that you only used it to kill someone with a > better gun and then threw the FP-45 away... With vi, > use it to get something better and then ... > > Colin McGregor Colin, I still use vi a lot. A long time ago, before I ever thought about computers, I took a typing course in high school. Vi's strong point is efficiency. You can do practically everything with your fingers on the home row. Of course, if you are not a touch typist... Someone mentioned xemacs. I like this one a lot, especially for HTML, but it is not supplied with Fedora Core_5. I checked the website, and found it has not been updated since something like 2001. It does not support XHTML as far as I know. Is it still supported? -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 9 23:10:33 2006 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 19:10:33 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <20060908144320.GJ13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060905223948.e5283560.hgibson@eol.ca> <4500022E.1090409@rogers.com> <20060908144320.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060909191033.e7201b1e.hgibson@eol.ca> On Fri, 8 Sep 2006 10:43:20 -0400 Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Don't 8 bit integers violate the C standard? I thought it required > integer to be at least 16 bits. Lennart, Would eight bit integers even work? I recall running C Power on the Commodore_64, and its integers were sixteen bit. So were its long integers. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wini/Mailing_lists From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 11:05:05 2006 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 07:05:05 -0400 Subject: OT Internet Assigned Numbers Authority Message-ID: <450542E1.8020503@execulink.com> Hello, As I'm training my firewall to flag abusive hosts and automatically fire-off incident reports, I came across a perplexing situation. A particular host has no reverse name although it appears to be from an ISP out of Michigan. The abuse AT address is for IANA itself. Isn't this unusual? I'm not comfortable with my set-up emailing an incident report directly to IANA because I feel block owners should police their own hosts. This really throws a wrench in the works. Any thoughts? Thanks, greg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 10:54:04 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 06:54:04 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <20060910210154.GC9713-bEteefDXIgtmcu3hnIyYJQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060905223948.e5283560.hgibson@eol.ca> <4500022E.1090409@rogers.com> <20060908144320.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060910080909.GA5739@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20060910162937.GA7291@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20060910210154.GC9713@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: <4505404C.4010007@rogers.com> Steve Harvey wrote: > This was a major issue in porting System III Unix to the Honeywell > Level 6. Storage was addressed as 16-bit words; if you needed a > char *, a 16-bit index was tacked onto the pointer making a grand > total of 48 bits. Other pointers stayed at 32 bits, which, if > memory serves me correctly, was sizeof(long), with int being 16 bits. Now we're getting into ancient geek. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 12:47:27 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 08:47:27 -0400 Subject: access your linux desktop remotely from any java-enabled web browser In-Reply-To: <1e55af990609100847l5b756c88y9a1e8fb227a70d7b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990609100524x191ce06dw937fe19f2f70135d@mail.gmail.com> <1e55af990609100847l5b756c88y9a1e8fb227a70d7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1157978847.12937.69.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Sun, 2006-09-10 at 10:47 -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > What is "Remote Desktop"? > > To my knowledge, vncserver does not provide the web server and java > application.. The Remote Desktop that RHEL4 refers to is an X module that allows remote control of the console's X windows session. It uses the same protocol as VNC and is bundled in RHEL's vnc-server RPM. Fedora Core also has it. And before RHEL bundled it one could download xvnc from sourceforge and install it to get the same effect. I haven't checked but it's possible that RHEL and FC have simply bundled xvnc into vnc-server. Without this vnc module one cannot access the console's GUI, one had to create a second desktop (on vnc port 5901) and affix that desktop to a specific login. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 13:14:06 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:14:06 -0400 Subject: reading legacy floppy disks In-Reply-To: <20060909191033.e7201b1e.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060905000936.6895F854EF@sarg.ryerson.ca> <50517.207.188.67.34.1157416383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20060905223948.e5283560.hgibson@eol.ca> <4500022E.1090409@rogers.com> <20060908144320.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060909191033.e7201b1e.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20060911131405.GW13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 07:10:33PM -0400, Howard Gibson wrote: > Would eight bit integers even work? I recall running C Power on the Commodore_64, and its integers were sixteen bit. So were its long integers. I think any compiler that tried to make int 8 bits would fail to compile and run most C code. The C standard apparently requires: char minimum 8 bits (some compilers have 9, 16, 24, or even 32 bits) short minimum 16 bits int minimum 16 bits (most modern systems probably use 32 bits though) long minimum 32 bits long long minimum 64 bits -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 13:19:13 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:19:13 -0400 Subject: writing to another machine's /dev/ttyS0... how? Message-ID: <20060911131912.GA6331@wp.magstar.net> Is there an easy way to write to /dev/ttyS0 (dumb serial device) attached to another machine. On that remote machine, I just do cat ... > /dev/ttyS0 But, how do I this from separate machine? I guess, I can use 'inetd' method, but there has to be better way. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 13:42:18 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:42:18 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <4503D92D.7040907-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901201309.7098.qmail@web61323.mail.yahoo.com> <20060908172213.GM13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4503D92D.7040907@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060911134218.GX13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Sep 10, 2006 at 10:21:49AM +0100, Jamon Camisso wrote: > http://www.linuxhardware.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/24/1747228 is the best > of the three (read most favourable to 64 bit :) > > http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5768 for a SPARC based > comparison, most compelling benchmark to stay with 32bit (on SPARC anyways) The sparc was never designed to become faster in 64bit mode. It just added a 64bit mode to gain address range for the few programs that need it. Everything else is intended to stay 32bit on sparc on most systems. Why waste the extra bytes on pointers if you gain nothing in performance. > http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1665&page=9 for a > windows based 32 vs 64bit comparison, again, 64 is favoured. x86 processors (at least from AMD, and I think in the case of the Core 2) do gain performance in 64bit mode (extra registers and less legacy baggage helps a lot on x86). > http://www.anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.aspx?i=2447&p=5 some database > benchmarks, opteron and xeon, 32 and 64bit comparisons (gentoo users > take note of the "standard tuned Gentoo installation") -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 13:49:14 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:49:14 -0400 Subject: Audio DVD? In-Reply-To: <200609091417.14330.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200609022024.30020.mervc@eol.ca> <20060908174549.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200609091417.14330.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20060911134914.GY13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 02:17:14PM -0400, Merv Curley wrote: > How do you keep so much information in that encyclopedia between your ears? I don't know. Compression maybe? > Thanks very much, an explanation that adds to my limited knowledge. I > gathered that audio CD's were more like tape, no filesystem and just blocks > of data [audio] with something called CDR in the mix. Now I have ECC > something or other. I have yet to find a resource dealing with all these > digital audio basics. In my ignorance I hoped a DVD was a 12" LP disk > compared to a 10". Obviously the DVD electronics are quite different from > CD. Well DVDs have lots of room, and they were intended for video and data. A blip in an audio stream is hardly noticeable if a bit is wrong in one sample, given you get 44100 samples per second. Get a bit wrong in the mpeg2 stream of a DVD, and you get have a nasty block mess somewhere in your image, and due to how mpeg2 compresses, it can effect a number of frames in a row, and you only get up to 30 frames per second, some one bit error can screw up the image for a large fraction of a second, which you will notice. This means for a CD that holds 650MB of data, being able to hold an extra 15% when just doing audio was a good tradeoff given no one would notice, and of course they do still have some error correction on audio CDs, just not nearly as much. VideoCD uses the same format as audio CD, but storing an mpeg1 stream instead of audio. They can occationally show artifacts of errors during playback, but they still manage pretty impresive quality given they tend to fit about an hour of video on a single CD. SVCD uses mpeg2 and gets twice the resolution of VCD in the same space since mpeg2 compresses much better. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 14:13:39 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:13:39 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060901201309.7098.qmail@web61323.mail.yahoo.com> <20060908172213.GM13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060911141339.GZ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 08:04:16PM -0400, Simon wrote: > In my humble opinon, sticking with 32-bit is much, much easier, unless > you have too much RAM. Too much closed source crap to worry about, > and it doesn't make a significant difference in performance. I mean, > of course, some people aren't doing it for that reason, they just want > to early-adopt, and then my logic is irrelevant.. Also, I only tried > 64-bit stuff when I was still a bit of a newb. Sticking with 32bit software may still make sense for many people. Staying with 32bit hardware when buying new hardware is nuts. Why buy something that won't work with 64bit software when it becomes mature? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 14:14:40 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:14:40 -0400 Subject: [OT] audio connection help In-Reply-To: <1e55af990609081336h4fbff02ds8e7ee765136b4324-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605172155x40e4e37du2742f65a588ba575@mail.gmail.com> <20060518152519.GG23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990609021501v32698253l83604c11e93402a7@mail.gmail.com> <20060908174229.GQ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990609081336h4fbff02ds8e7ee765136b4324@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060911141440.GA13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 04:36:08PM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > The rear speakers work at all times.. with or without the front > speakers being used. read speakers are a different issue I guess. I never had any myself. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 14:58:23 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:58:23 -0400 Subject: off topicthe home of tomorrow? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060911145823.GB13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 06, 2006 at 06:33:56PM -0400, dave morton wrote: > we are doing a major renovation this winter. > > gazing into your crystal balls, i am sure most would agree that wireless in > some form or another, will be the future in homes (for streaming etc.), > however, does anyone have any thoughts on what might be useful to include > in our new house's hard-wiring? > > i can envision a day when low voltage wiring will be the norm for lights > etc but what > about 'wiring' (fibre, cat5 etc) in the home of the near future? is gigabit > ethernet going to stay within the wires or will it become just another part > of the radio spectrum as soon as bandwith glitches are cleared up? Well I know one of my cousins (in Denmark) has done a lot of installation of smart wiring for outlets and lights (they run power out to everywhere, and then a control network for the switches, so that you could program any switch to control any outlet or light in your house, including making a switch that could turn off every light in the house at once if you wanted. Everything just tied pack to a small dedicated control system. This stuff has apparently been commen in new houses there for 10 years now. You can even tell it when you go on vacation to repeat the pattern of turning lights on and off that you have done for the last week by having it use logs of when things were turned on and off. Beats dumb little timers on a few lights). > since we have the opportunity to rewire from scratch, it seems a good time > to consider what should be sticking out of the electrical boxes as the > wiring goes in. perhaps nothing more than cat5 cable will be handy for most > near-future needs...i don't know > > i am pretty typical of most of us in this group, everything is hybrid: > ADSL, wired linux servers, wifi debian laptops, bluetooth for blackberry , > imac hardwired to a printer but remote-controlled, rogers cable, wirefree > phones etc, etc, etc. > > for sure... all this stuff will be connected differently in just a few years > > the question is, can i hedge my bets on any coming trend(s)? Well you could always wire every room with a phone jack, cable outlet, a few CAT6 connections (CAT6 can certainly handle gigabit), and I guess you could always throw in a few other wire bundles for future use. Fiber is I believe rather expensive, and mostly useful for long distance hauls, or places where electrical isolation is required. As for wireless, I personally expect it to fall apart once enough people start using it that you don't get anything other than collisions and interference. 802.11n certainly appears to be heading towards a disaster if any of the tests of pre-n hardware are to be believed. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 15:48:24 2006 From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Gregory D Hough) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:48:24 -0400 Subject: OT Internet Assigned Numbers Authority In-Reply-To: <450542E1.8020503-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <450542E1.8020503@execulink.com> Message-ID: <45058548.9060306@execulink.com> Gregory D Hough wrote: > Hello, > > As I'm training my firewall to flag abusive hosts and automatically > fire-off incident reports, I came across a perplexing situation. A > particular host has no reverse name although it appears to be from an > ISP out of Michigan. The abuse AT address is for IANA itself. Isn't this > unusual? > > I'm not comfortable with my set-up emailing an incident report directly > to IANA because I feel block owners should police their own hosts. This > really throws a wrench in the works. Any thoughts? > > Thanks, > greg > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > OK fine, after poking around the ISP's web pages I found the appropriate address to direct incident reports to. I am amazed at how many ISP's have such poorly structured and outdated whois records including my own. Little, if anything should be said about such lame admins. Can't you tell? greg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 15:57:29 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:57:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT Internet Assigned Numbers Authority In-Reply-To: <45058548.9060306-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <450542E1.8020503@execulink.com> <45058548.9060306@execulink.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, Gregory D Hough wrote: > address to direct incident reports to. I am amazed at how many ISP's have > such poorly structured and outdated whois records including my own. I hear ya Greg. Many DNS domains are in a terrible state too. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 18:22:33 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:22:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: writing to another machine's /dev/ttyS0... how? In-Reply-To: <20060911131912.GA6331-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060911131912.GA6331@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, William Park wrote: > Is there an easy way to write to /dev/ttyS0 (dumb serial device) > attached to another machine. On that remote machine, I just do > cat ... > /dev/ttyS0 > > But, how do I this from separate machine? I guess, I can use 'inetd' > method, but there has to be better way. Ssh should work. Something like: echo "Bob is a cool guy" | ssh $REMOTEHOST "cat > /dev/ttyS0" With the right use of ssh-agent or null passphrases the access can be transparent. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 18:39:28 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:39:28 -0400 Subject: [WestTLUG] writing to another machine's /dev/ttyS0... how? In-Reply-To: <200609111333.59154.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060911131912.GA6331@wp.magstar.net> <200609111333.59154.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <20060911183928.GA6493@wp.magstar.net> On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 01:33:57PM -0400, bob wrote: > What exactly are you trying to do? Are you trying to exchange > information between machines over a serial link? Do you want to do > this inside some custom scripting? If so you can readily open up a > serial port from inside a Tcl/Tk script and read and write much as you > would to a file. Ideally, I want to do something like cat ... > 192.168.1.2:/dev/ttyS0 Of course, it would be better if I don't have to keep opening/closing the connections; but, that's minor point. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 19:45:00 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 15:45:00 -0400 Subject: writing to another machine's /dev/ttyS0... how? In-Reply-To: <20060911131912.GA6331-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060911131912.GA6331@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <200609111545.00448.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Monday 11 September 2006 09:19, William Park wrote: > Is there an easy way to write to /dev/ttyS0 (dumb serial device) > attached to another machine. On that remote machine, I just do > cat ... > /dev/ttyS0 > > But, how do I this from separate machine? I guess, I can use 'inetd' > method, but there has to be better way. Wouldn't know what to suggest without some idea of why you want to write data to ttyS0 ... a script running under inetd seems like a good solution. lpd print queues might be an option as well (if queueing is useful)??? -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 19:46:06 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 15:46:06 -0400 Subject: [WestTLUG] writing to another machine's /dev/ttyS0... how? In-Reply-To: <20060911183928.GA6493-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060911131912.GA6331@wp.magstar.net> <200609111333.59154.ican@netrover.com> <20060911183928.GA6493@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <20060911194606.GC13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 02:39:28PM -0400, William Park wrote: > Ideally, I want to do something like > > cat ... > 192.168.1.2:/dev/ttyS0 > > Of course, it would be better if I don't have to keep opening/closing > the connections; but, that's minor point. Perhaps you would like: # apt-cache show ser2net Package: ser2net Priority: optional Section: utils Installed-Size: 164 Maintainer: Marc Haber Architecture: i386 Version: 2.2-1 Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.2.ds1-4), libwrap0 Suggests: telnet Filename: pool/main/s/ser2net/ser2net_2.2-1_i386.deb Size: 38284 MD5sum: f7c878d1b61567aca75045de7e409edb SHA1: 20fafa406038d398d997b41e6e40f4e8db675b3f SHA256: 1bcbe60f0f97da68409f2dd40306c034d8b77a76fdb998033104a91fa19e199a Description: Allows network connections to serial ports This daemon allows telnet and tcp sessions to be established with a unit's serial ports. Combined with a terminal emulation like xterm or the Linux console, this can be a very simple means of communicating with routers, other systems' serial consoles and other equipment with a serial port. This is remarkably similar to the reverse telnet feature of some Cisco routers. . Upstream URL: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ser2net -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 20:28:21 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 16:28:21 -0400 Subject: writing to another machine's /dev/ttyS0... how? In-Reply-To: <20060911131912.GA6331-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060911131912.GA6331@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <4505C6E5.40505@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > Is there an easy way to write to /dev/ttyS0 (dumb serial device) > attached to another machine. On that remote machine, I just do > cat ... > /dev/ttyS0 > > But, how do I this from separate machine? I guess, I can use 'inetd' > method, but there has to be better way. > You could try running it through SSH. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 17:33:57 2006 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 13:33:57 -0400 Subject: [WestTLUG] writing to another machine's /dev/ttyS0... how? In-Reply-To: <20060911131912.GA6331-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060911131912.GA6331@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <200609111333.59154.ican@netrover.com> What exactly are you trying to do? Are you trying to exchange information between machines over a serial link? Do you want to do this inside some custom scripting? If so you can readily open up a serial port from inside a Tcl/Tk script and read and write much as you would to a file. bob On Monday 11 September 2006 09:19 am, William Park wrote: > Is there an easy way to write to /dev/ttyS0 (dumb serial device) > attached to another machine. On that remote machine, I just do > cat ... > /dev/ttyS0 > > But, how do I this from separate machine? I guess, I can use 'inetd' > method, but there has to be better way. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 21:09:12 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 17:09:12 -0400 Subject: Audio DVD? In-Reply-To: <20060911134914.GY13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200609022024.30020.mervc@eol.ca> <200609091417.14330.mervc@eol.ca> <20060911134914.GY13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200609111709.13191.mervc@eol.ca> On Monday 11 September 2006 09:49, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 02:17:14PM -0400, Merv Curley wrote: > > How do you keep so much information in that encyclopedia between your > > ears? > > I don't know. Compression maybe? > Maybe you should patent it.... Thanks for that additional information. Nice basic stuff that I hope I can remember. I like to know the why's, just my quirk. > > -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 21:15:04 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 17:15:04 -0400 Subject: [OT] audio connection help In-Reply-To: <20060911141440.GA13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605172155x40e4e37du2742f65a588ba575@mail.gmail.com> <20060518152519.GG23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990609021501v32698253l83604c11e93402a7@mail.gmail.com> <20060908174229.GQ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990609081336h4fbff02ds8e7ee765136b4324@mail.gmail.com> <20060911141440.GA13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990609111415y44805d77r1c9f976857abbcab@mail.gmail.com> On 9/11/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 04:36:08PM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: > > The rear speakers work at all times.. with or without the front > > speakers being used. > > read speakers are a different issue I guess. I never had any myself. :) Just to avoid confusion.. by 'rear speakers" I mean the 2 speakers which are plugged into the rear of my computers, as opposed to "front speakers" which is the jack in the front with the headphones.. I don't use a 5.1 setup or anything.. even though I buy DVDs which support it.. hmm. =/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 19:21:19 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:21:19 +0100 Subject: [OT] audio connection help In-Reply-To: <1e55af990609111415y44805d77r1c9f976857abbcab-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605172155x40e4e37du2742f65a588ba575@mail.gmail.com> <20060518152519.GG23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990609021501v32698253l83604c11e93402a7@mail.gmail.com> <20060908174229.GQ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990609081336h4fbff02ds8e7ee765136b4324@mail.gmail.com> <20060911141440.GA13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990609111415y44805d77r1c9f976857abbcab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4505B72F.8070204@utoronto.ca> Sy Ali wrote: > On 9/11/06, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 04:36:08PM -0400, Sy Ali wrote: >> > The rear speakers work at all times.. with or without the front >> > speakers being used. >> >> read speakers are a different issue I guess. I never had any myself. :) > > Just to avoid confusion.. by 'rear speakers" I mean the 2 speakers > which are plugged into the rear of my computers, as opposed to "front > speakers" which is the jack in the front with the headphones.. > > I don't use a 5.1 setup or anything.. even though I buy DVDs which > support it.. hmm. =/ I don't have the rest of this thread to check so bear with me if you've already heard it: Have you checked in alsamixer that Headphone Jack Sense is enabled? It should be present if your soundcard supports it. Mine is between Master and PCM (with 2 or so 3D sliders also in between. Something to check if you haven't already. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 00:23:21 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:23:21 -0400 Subject: ioctl question(s) Message-ID: <4505FDF9.9060805@alteeve.com> Hi all, I am afraid I am asking pretty n00b-ish questions :). I have been trying to find ways of identifying partitions and I have *finally* found that it *is* possible to read the hard drive serial number of a drive behind a USB/IDE adapter. The 'scsiinfo -a /dev/sda' call returns it, though slightly mangled (ie: real s/n is "abcdefgh" but is shown as "badcfehg"). Regardless, I now know it _is_ possible! So I've been doing more research and I keep seeing references to the 'ioctl' call, but I know very little (though at least some) C. For example, I have read that 'hdparm' finds an IDE disk's serial number by calling "ioctl 0x30d". Of course I am not sure how to do this or how to use 'strace' on 'scsiinfo' to figure out where/what it is calling when it gets the serial number off the disk behind the USB/IDE adapter (probably a scsi call?). So then, given the many dire warnings I have read about messing with ioctl, I was hoping someone here could give me a hand with some sample code (I am not trying to be lazy, just cautious!). How could I, for example, call "getsn /dev/hda" and have it return what is returned when "ioctl 0x30d" is called? I am looking only for the most simple, basic working code that I can build on. In the meantime I am going to try to learn 'strace' enough to see how 'scsiinfo' gets the HDD's serial number! :) Thanks all!! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 00:34:17 2006 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:34:17 -0400 Subject: SMART warns Boot Drive will Fail In-Reply-To: <4505FDF9.9060805-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4505FDF9.9060805@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <45060089.6040409@rogers.com> So I get the message when booting this evening. All my data directories are on other drives, /VAR, /USR, /HOME What is the least painful way to switch to a new boot drive. I use Ubunto. Thanks! Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 11 20:33:19 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (paul sutton) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:33:19 +0000 Subject: Linux laptops Message-ID: <4505C80F.2090905@zleap.net> Hi I was looking for laptop stores in toronto and found this http://www.computation.to/ if you goto specials then laptops they offer Linux on refurbished computers, as an alternatve to windows, I thought the group would be interested in this. They mainly have IBM thinkpads which is what I have, but i got mine from a different store. This company also offers recycling services, which may be of interest to other members of the group, so we can all do our bit to help the environment and at the same time add new life to older but working computers, and perhaps help close the digital divide further. Hope this is useful. Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 00:47:48 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 19:47:48 -0500 Subject: [OT] audio connection help In-Reply-To: <4505B72F.8070204-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1e55af990605172155x40e4e37du2742f65a588ba575@mail.gmail.com> <20060518152519.GG23932@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990609021501v32698253l83604c11e93402a7@mail.gmail.com> <20060908174229.GQ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990609081336h4fbff02ds8e7ee765136b4324@mail.gmail.com> <20060911141440.GA13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1e55af990609111415y44805d77r1c9f976857abbcab@mail.gmail.com> <4505B72F.8070204@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1e55af990609111747y141564bpa85e2b96952bcea9@mail.gmail.com> On 9/11/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: > I don't have the rest of this thread to check so bear with me if you've > already heard it: There is no problem to solve. The only issue that might be considered to remain is that when I plug my headphones in the front of my case, the speakers which are connected to the rear of my case do not mute. It's not a big enough issue to troubleshoot.. if there is a solution.. this might be normal. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 00:54:27 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:54:27 -0400 Subject: SMART warns Boot Drive will Fail In-Reply-To: <45060089.6040409-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4505FDF9.9060805@alteeve.com> <45060089.6040409@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45060543.8080801@alteeve.com> Stephen wrote: > So I get the message when booting this evening. > > All my data directories are on other drives, /VAR, /USR, /HOME > > What is the least painful way to switch to a new boot drive. > > I use Ubunto. > > Thanks! > Stephen > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Assuming you have other partitions to use, and that you are using grub, edit: '/boot/grub/menu.lst'. Copy the entry you normally use (don't edit, in case there are problems) and change the 'root (0,0)' line (and possible the 'kernel' line if needed) to point to the new disk. If you need to write the MBR on the new disk I *think* you need to use 'fdisk' to set the bootable flag on the new '/boot' partition, but I might be wrong. I haven't done this myself and am largely guessing. This is assuming you have already duplicated your partitions onto the new drive. Also, you might want to read 'man grub' and 'man fdisk' for more info, given the cost of "doing it wrong". Maybe someone here has experience doing this and can offer sounder advice? Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 01:19:27 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 01:19:27 +0000 Subject: [WestTLUG] writing to another machine's /dev/ttyS0... how? In-Reply-To: <200609111333.59154.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060911131912.GA6331@wp.magstar.net> <200609111333.59154.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <615186364-1158024010-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-351695320-@bxe023-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> One more idea. If you used the netcat (nc) method you need only open /dev/tcp// to read and write to the remote socket. Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network -----Original Message----- From: bob Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 13:33:57 To:tlug at ss.org, WestTLUG at yahoogroups.ca Subject: [TLUG]: Re: [WestTLUG] writing to another machine's /dev/ttyS0... how? What exactly are you trying to do? Are you trying to exchange information between machines over a serial link? Do you want to do this inside some custom scripting? If so you can readily open up a serial port from inside a Tcl/Tk script and read and write much as you would to a file. bob On Monday 11 September 2006 09:19 am, William Park wrote: > Is there an easy way to write to /dev/ttyS0 (dumb serial device) > attached to another machine. On that remote machine, I just do > cat ... > /dev/ttyS0 > > But, how do I this from separate machine? I guess, I can use 'inetd' > method, but there has to be better way. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-s7S4Dk53uTw at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 02:51:40 2006 From: paul-s7S4Dk53uTw at public.gmane.org (Paul van Fraassen) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 22:51:40 -0400 Subject: Backing up to DVDs In-Reply-To: <44FA33E3.5060801-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <44FA33E3.5060801@telly.org> Message-ID: <49833ce40609111951q6b97dd7es30263768588c03f0@mail.gmail.com> Sorry I didn't notice this post earlier but, better late than never right? I've used dar for some time on Debian (Sarge) and found it works well and sits nicely in scripts that I then hit with cron. Mostly, I then move the .dar file sets to other hard disks but I do on occasion burn them to DVDs. When ever I'm going to burn the archive sets I set the dar file size to < 2Gig as I ran into an ISO-9660 file size limit when I first played with this. I don't know if this is still the case as I haven't looked at it in a while maybe someone here has a update, fix hint etc. These days it seems putting the archives on external HDs makes the most sense on small number of machines Cost per Gig etc. I like using command line stuff for backups myself as it makes me feel like there is less to go wrong when I'm in a hurry to restore stuff :-) I know very retro. -Paul v.F. On 9/2/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Hey all, > > Right now I'm doing my backups manually using K3B, because it's a simple > way to create mountable DVD filesystems to which to copy files. > > I'd like to move to something that helps manage the task more > automatically (and do things like incrementals and maximize capacity > without breaking files across volumes), but it looks like available > tools (such as Amanda) are meant to work with tape drives and raw > devices. I'd like to use a backup system that will back files up to one > or more DVD-Rs, as filesystems rather than 4.7GB tarballs; think `cpio > -p` rather than `cpio -o`, if you know what I mean. The nicest thing > about this is that no recovery or extraction software is necessary, only > (if used) decompression. > > Speaking of compression; I'd love to be able to tell the system to bzip > certain file types (ie. *.txt, *.log, *.doc, etc.) but not to even try > to do files that are already compressed (ie, multimedia). > > Also, I'd love the system to make a log of what it's doing of the form: > > > Are there articles anywhere about how to do this? Existing packages? > Config changes to Amanda? Maybe this can all be done using shell or perl > scripts and existing command line utilities, I'm just not sure if > something like this has already been done. Certainly someone else has > had to deal with this kind of thing before.... > > Does anyone here have any experience with "dar/kdar", "bacula" or > "taper"? Would any of them fit the task? > > Thanks for all suggestions. I've waited too long to do this. > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 04:48:40 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 12 Sep 2006 00:48:40 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <450242CF.1000305-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <450242CF.1000305@telly.org> Message-ID: Evan Leibovitch writes: > Peter King wrote: > > I'm thinking of getting a new machine -- so I'm interested in any > > Linux war stories, good or bad, with the following hardware: > > > > AMD Athlon 64 X2 (dual core) > > > > A 64-bit OS is good. If this is for a desktop, keep in mind that the Adobe > Flash player and the Windows media codecs don't work under 64-bit. I have > no idea if they work on 64-bit hardware running a 32-bit OS. Running 32 bit Linux on 64 bit hardware is equivalent (in terms of application compatibility) to runing 32 bit Linux on 32 bit hardware. This is why many people suggest that 32 bit Linux is a safe choice for 64 bit systems. Running 32 bit applications on 64 bit Linux is a different story. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 07:45:33 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 03:45:33 -0400 Subject: Audio DVD? In-Reply-To: <200609091417.14330.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200609022024.30020.mervc@eol.ca> <20060908174549.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200609091417.14330.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20060912034533.06e2bb3c.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006 14:17:14 -0400 Merv Curley got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > How do you keep so much information in that encyclopedia between your ears? Paste it from Wikipedia? ;) /joehill ducks -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 /////////////////////////// "People should not be afraid of their Government, the Government should be afraid of the People." -- V. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 10:47:12 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 05:47:12 -0500 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <450242CF.1000305@telly.org> Message-ID: <1e55af990609120347r6f59f0aanfec4723b319975c9@mail.gmail.com> On 12 Sep 2006 00:48:40 -0400, Tim Writer wrote: > Running 32 bit Linux on 64 bit hardware is equivalent (in terms of > application compatibility) to runing 32 bit Linux on 32 bit hardware. I thought that this was untrue with some hardware setups.. Granted, it's in the manufacturer's best interest to make things as smooth as possible, but it's possible that 32-bit speed on a 64-bit setup might not be as good.. but I'm not sure if those are rare setups or not. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 13:01:22 2006 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:01:22 -0400 Subject: [WestTLUG] writing to another machine's /dev/ttyS0... how? In-Reply-To: <20060911183928.GA6493-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060911131912.GA6331@wp.magstar.net> <200609111333.59154.ican@netrover.com> <20060911183928.GA6493@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <200609120901.23521.ican@netrover.com> On Monday 11 September 2006 02:39 pm, William Park wrote: > On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 01:33:57PM -0400, bob wrote: > > What exactly are you trying to do? Are you trying to exchange > > information between machines over a serial link? Do you want to do > > this inside some custom scripting? If so you can readily open up a > > serial port from inside a Tcl/Tk script and read and write much as you > > would to a file. > > Ideally, I want to do something like > > cat ... > 192.168.1.2:/dev/ttyS0 > > Of course, it would be better if I don't have to keep opening/closing > the connections; but, that's minor point. OK. You want to be able to open a remote serial port on machine B and transport information from machine A to that port. Without giving away any proprietary info, what is that information going to do? Interface/control some device connected to that serial port? Do you need a full computer as machine B? or can you live with a simple network appliance? bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 14:09:24 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:09:24 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? In-Reply-To: <1e55af990609120347r6f59f0aanfec4723b319975c9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <450242CF.1000305@telly.org> <1e55af990609120347r6f59f0aanfec4723b319975c9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060912140924.GD13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 12, 2006 at 05:47:12AM -0500, Sy Ali wrote: > I thought that this was untrue with some hardware setups.. > > Granted, it's in the manufacturer's best interest to make things as > smooth as possible, but it's possible that 32-bit speed on a 64-bit > setup might not be as good.. but I'm not sure if those are rare setups > or not. Well the 32bit performance of the athlon 64/opteron systems is faster than any 32bit only athlon ever had. It was even faster than most of intel's 32bit and 64bit cpus on most things. Move to 64bit and the lead just increases. It was already the best 32bit cpu for a number of years, and hence a good buy even if you had no interest in 64bit support. It looks like the Core 2 may now be the cpu to beat on both 32 and 64bit performance though, assuming you can even find a store with one in stock to buy. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 15:27:31 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 11:27:31 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling Message-ID: <4506D1E3.1090902@alteeve.com> Hi all, My b/f is looking to get away from programming and into the hardware recycling business. This isn't exactly a huge industry, so I was hoping you guys might be able to help him out. He's looking to start by volunteering. Can you guys recommend some places he could check out? He's already looked into ReBoot and he wasn't too keen on them. He'd rather work for a smaller company if possible. Thanks all! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 16:11:22 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:11:22 +0000 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <4506D1E3.1090902-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4506D1E3.1090902@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 9/12/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > My b/f is looking to get away from programming and into the hardware > recycling business. This isn't exactly a huge industry, so I was hoping > you guys might be able to help him out. Unfortunately, the obsolescence rate of computer hardware has, if anything, increased over the last couple of years. There is a sense in which this is a "growth industry," namely that people, in being in some senses, more 'environmentally aware,' think it's more important than it used to be. But the ability to actually reuse old hardware has been falling. Colin McGregor can doubtless speak to this with considerable authority... He was with one of these organizations, and has been watching the economics get worse, not better. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 12:40:50 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (paul sutton) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:40:50 +0000 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <4506D1E3.1090902-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4506D1E3.1090902@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4506AAD2.3090903@zleap.net> I posted a link yesterday on the thread on Linux laptops http://www.computation.to/ They may be able to help, they are Toronto based, However they do programming and software design so I would guess those skills would come in useful, Paul Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > My b/f is looking to get away from programming and into the hardware > recycling business. This isn't exactly a huge industry, so I was > hoping you guys might be able to help him out. > > He's looking to start by volunteering. Can you guys recommend some > places he could check out? He's already looked into ReBoot and he > wasn't too keen on them. He'd rather work for a smaller company if > possible. > > Thanks all! > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 16:53:25 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:53:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060912165325.19916.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Christopher Browne wrote: > On 9/12/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > > My b/f is looking to get away from programming > and into the hardware > > recycling business. This isn't exactly a huge > industry, so I was hoping > > you guys might be able to help him out. > > Unfortunately, the obsolescence rate of computer > hardware has, if > anything, increased over the last couple of years. No, we seem to have hit something of a plateau for now. Hardware is NOT being rendered obsolete as quickly as times gone by. So what if the newest CPU chip will make MS-Word (or other MS trash) run 50% faster, it will not make a secretary type any faster, a fact well understood by most businesses. Thus organizations like the one I am with have been seeing fewer donations. What is also happening is that new hardware costs for a decent performing new boxes is dropping, so the residual value on old boxes has been going through the floor. > There is a sense in which this is a "growth > industry," namely that > people, in being in some senses, more > 'environmentally aware,' think > it's more important than it used to be. > > But the ability to actually reuse old hardware has > been falling. > Colin McGregor can doubtless speak to this with > considerable > authority... He was with one of these > organizations, and has been > watching the economics get worse, not better. Yes, this past weekend I was helping sort through over 1,500 PCs donated to the Toronto Free-Net separating out the not-so-good from the total trash (there were some '386SX boxes and '486 boxes among the machines donated, machines whose value can be measured in the cents per lb. the Free-Net can get from a scrap metal dealer...). Things MAY change post the release of MS Vista, assuming MS can convince (do a snow job on?) a large number of firms that the hardware demands of Vista are worth meeting. I doubt even MS's marketing department can convince enough firms to go to Vista to make a major change. As stands, for the foreseeable future hardware recycling is a bad business, one to stay away from and a business I want out of... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 17:13:50 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:13:50 -0400 Subject: Linux laptops In-Reply-To: <4505C80F.2090905-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <4505C80F.2090905@zleap.net> Message-ID: On 9/11/06, paul sutton wrote: > > Hi > > I was looking for laptop stores in toronto and found this > > http://www.computation.to/ > > if you goto specials then laptops they offer Linux on refurbished > computers, as an alternatve to windows, I thought the group would be > interested in this. > > They mainly have IBM thinkpads which is what I have, but i got mine > from a different store. > > This company also offers recycling services, which may be of interest > to other members of the group, so we can all do our bit to help the > environment and at the same time add new life to older but working > computers, and perhaps help close the digital divide further. > > Hope this is useful. I just dropped in on this store at lunch time, and though it's well signposted, you do have to walk to the end of an alley to get to this place. You can tell you've arrived because there's a stack of old cases stacked up just inside the door. The place is crammed with used equipment. I saw about half a dozen laptops setup, two running Windows XP, and one running OS X. There may have been Linux laptops lying around, but they either weren't on display or weren't turned on. The store also has a large supply of used screens (most below $75), used PCs (no prices) and used printers (most below $200, many labelled 'Perfect'). There were two guys working in the store, sitting at their desks, neither of whom seemed inclined to engage me in conversation. I browsed for five minutes, then walked out. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 17:31:33 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:31:33 -0400 Subject: Linux laptops In-Reply-To: References: <4505C80F.2090905@zleap.net> Message-ID: On 9/12/06, Alex Beamish wrote: -=snip=- > There were two guys working in the store, sitting at their desks, neither of > whom seemed inclined to engage me in conversation. I browsed for five > minutes, then walked out. good scouting, then ! We're always on the lookout for ols Thinkpad 600s, but we like to get 'em with NO os, and/or no HD (way cheaper). Then we run 'em as thin clients and rent 'em out to customers. We like the 600's 'cause they've got 1024x786 and they fit in a milk crate ! djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca/sfd geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 17:35:29 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:35:29 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <20060912165325.19916.qmail-2K+iNxKRQwOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060912165325.19916.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4506EFE1.2050000@telly.org> Colin McGregor wrote: > No, we seem to have hit something of a plateau for now. Hardware is NOT being rendered obsolete as > quickly as times gone by. So what if the newest CPU chip will make MS-Word (or other MS trash) run 50% > faster, it will not make a secretary type any faster, a fact well understood by most businesses. Thus > organizations like the one I am with have been seeing fewer donations. > I've noticed this as well. It seems that desktop systems -- especially those not doing multimedia -- long ago outran their operators' ability to use them. I also agree with Colin's comments about Vista, which will obsolete a lot of computers that most people will instinctively know have lots of life left. Is this an opportunity for Linux? Or will people will hang onto XP even longer than they held onto Win95 and Win98? (I don't know anyone who held onto NT.) > What is also happening is that new hardware costs for a decent performing new boxes is dropping, so the residual value on old boxes has been going through the floor. > So does that mean that slightly old but perfectly functioning OS-less PCs are available at REALLY cheap rates? I assumed that many donators to places like Reboot have already written off their gear and are thankful for anything they get. What's the going rate for a vanilla P3 system with decent video? > Yes, this past weekend I was helping sort through over 1,500 PCs donated to the Toronto Free-Net separating > out the not-so-good from the total trash (there were some '386SX boxes and '486 boxes among the machines > donated, machines whose value can be measured in the cents per lb. the Free-Net can get from a scrap metal > dealer...). Do you do like Portland's FreeGeek, extracting the easily-separated precious metals? They make significant coin by performing the first phase of the scrap/salvage operation. Volunteers get free PCs in return for contributing time. > Things MAY change post the release of MS Vista, assuming MS can convince (do a snow job on?) a large > number of firms that the hardware demands of Vista are worth meeting. I doubt even MS's marketing department > can convince enough firms to go to Vista to make a major change. As stands, for the foreseeable future > hardware recycling is a bad business, one to stay away from and a business I want out of... > I still really wish that someone could figure out how to tap the marketable potential of these boxes as LTSP thin clients. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 17:37:12 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:37:12 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <4506D1E3.1090902-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4506D1E3.1090902@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 9/12/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > My b/f is looking to get away from programming and into the hardware > recycling business. This isn't exactly a huge industry, so I was hoping > you guys might be able to help him out. There are a few avenues, as I see it; 1) get a space and open a refurbish/ repair shoppe. 2) try to find clients first, and set them up with preconfigured refurb stuff, and maybe back it up on a contract. 3) try to get sponsorred to take our "junk" computers, and furnish charitable institutions, around the world, with running, tested, configured "dream networks" ... made out of our old junk. it's worth doing, but some creativity will be required to make it pay. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca/sfd geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 17:56:49 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:56:49 -0400 Subject: Toronto Linux Job Market In-Reply-To: References: <44FC76B5.3070208@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: 2006/9/5, Robert Brockway : > > As always the demand is top heavy - there are a definite shortage of > people qualified for senior Linux positions while there tend to be quite a > lot of people able to go for junior positions. No surprises there really. > Where would you recommend I look to find out about part-time junior-level Linux positions? I am looking for something basic like coding, server setup, software testing, tech support, or something similar. I have a few years of experience with Debian and some C and Perl. I have a Secret security clearance from my past work with Justice Canada. -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I also do computer training and spyware removal for homes and businesses. Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org / 416-781-5938 / Skype ID: jasonspiro -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 17:52:46 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:52:46 -0400 Subject: Are there any SQL*Plus replacements with context-sensitive status bar help or F1 help? Message-ID: Hi all, I am taking an Oracle course at school. Is there a SQLPlus replacement for Linux that will offer context-sensitive help when I type a keyword like SELECT or INSERT then press F1? Or that will show the syntax of the command I am typing in the status bar as I type it? None of the SQLPlus replacements listed at http://freshmeat.net/search/?q=database+tab+completion appear at first glance to have such a thing. I may have to download and build them all and try them; if none have such a feature, I may try sending feature requests to the authors. Thanks in advance, Jason Spiro -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I also do computer training and spyware removal for homes and businesses. Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org / 416-781-5938 / Skype ID: jasonspiro -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 14:26:07 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (paul sutton) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:26:07 +0000 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <4506EFE1.2050000-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060912165325.19916.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506EFE1.2050000@telly.org> Message-ID: <4506C37F.3050602@zleap.net> My friend in england is currently collecting to send computers running ltsp to the cameroon for use in schools, he has sent some but they want more (and lots more it seems), so they can teach kids there it skills. If there is any chance of getting funding to move computers around the world, then there is a real chance that the 3rd world can really benefit, The potential is there, The link for more info is here http://digitaldivide.dyndns.org it will be up till saturday as he is hosting from home and wants to save electricity, and the planet. Paul, >> > > I still really wish that someone could figure out how to tap the > marketable potential of these boxes as LTSP thin clients. > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 18:29:52 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:29:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <4506EFE1.2050000-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4506EFE1.2050000@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > > No, we seem to have hit something of a plateau for > now. Hardware is NOT being rendered obsolete as > > quickly as times gone by. So what if the newest > CPU chip will make MS-Word (or other MS trash) run > 50% > > faster, it will not make a secretary type any > faster, a fact well understood by most businesses. > Thus > > organizations like the one I am with have been > seeing fewer donations. > > > I've noticed this as well. It seems that desktop > systems -- especially > those not doing multimedia -- long ago outran their > operators' ability > to use them. The heavy duty gamers are, as they have been for many years, the ones pushing the hardware envolope. Even the multimedia people take a back seat to the gamers... > I also agree with Colin's comments about Vista, > which will obsolete a > lot of computers that most people will instinctively > know have lots of > life left. How many firms are still running Windows 98? It will take a LOT to convince businesses to move to Vista, and unless there is a MASSIVE improvement in features (as happened when Microsoft went from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95) the change over will be slow (glacial?). > Is this an opportunity for Linux? Or will people > will hang onto XP even > longer than they held onto Win95 and Win98? (I don't > know anyone who > held onto NT.) I expect XP will be around for a LONG time. > > What is also happening is that new hardware costs > for a decent performing new boxes is dropping, so > the residual value on old boxes has been going > through the floor. > > > So does that mean that slightly old but perfectly > functioning OS-less > PCs are available at REALLY cheap rates? I assumed > that many donators to > places like Reboot have already written off their > gear and are thankful > for anything they get. What's the going rate for a > vanilla P3 system > with decent video? Well, there is still some discussion inside the Toronto Free-Net about prices we will be offering used boxes at. So I am not willing to comment on that other than to say not much for a complete package, PC, monitor, keyboard, mouse... > > Yes, this past weekend I was helping sort through > over 1,500 PCs donated to the Toronto Free-Net > separating > > out the not-so-good from the total trash (there > were some '386SX boxes and '486 boxes among the > machines > > donated, machines whose value can be measured in > the cents per lb. the Free-Net can get from a scrap > metal > > dealer...). > Do you do like Portland's FreeGeek, extracting the > easily-separated > precious metals? They make significant coin by > performing the first > phase of the scrap/salvage operation. Volunteers get > free PCs in return > for contributing time. No. > > Things MAY change post the release of MS Vista, > assuming MS can convince (do a snow job on?) a large > > number of firms that the hardware demands of Vista > are worth meeting. I doubt even MS's marketing > department > > can convince enough firms to go to Vista to make a > major change. As stands, for the foreseeable future > > hardware recycling is a bad business, one to stay > away from and a business I want out of... > > > I still really wish that someone could figure out > how to tap the > marketable potential of these boxes as LTSP thin > clients. I've set-up LTSP boxes, and I am not sure how to make such set-ups work well in places where you don't have a dedicated IT department (which is most small businesses). That in my books is the killer market... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 14:41:09 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (paul sutton) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:41:09 +0000 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <20060912182952.56277.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> is there a mailing list for free-net, I am sure Tom in England can help or advise here. I am chatting on irc right now. Paul >>I still really wish that someone could figure out >>how to tap the >>marketable potential of these boxes as LTSP thin >>clients. >> >> > >I've set-up LTSP boxes, and I am not sure how to make >such set-ups work well in places where you don't have >a dedicated IT department (which is most small >businesses). That in my books is the killer market... > >Colin McGregor > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 18:42:52 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:42:52 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <4506C705.7070200-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> Message-ID: <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> paul sutton wrote: > is there a mailing list for free-net, I am sure Tom in England can help > or advise here. I am chatting on irc right now. > > Paul Colin indicates that the retain market is dieing (dead?) but maybe this is something a government sponsorship or program might help with? I'd love to hear any input. Could you maybe ask him to email me (mkelly at alteeve . com)? If he has the time, of course. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 19:17:53 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:17:53 +0000 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <4506FFAC.3070405-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 9/12/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > paul sutton wrote: > > is there a mailing list for free-net, I am sure Tom in England can help > > or advise here. I am chatting on irc right now. > > > > Paul > > Colin indicates that the retain market is dieing (dead?) but maybe this > is something a government sponsorship or program might help with? I'd > love to hear any input. Could you maybe ask him to email me (mkelly at > alteeve . com)? If he has the time, of course. :) Why *should* the government artificially push the value of this up? That tends to lead to trouble... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 19:16:03 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:16:03 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 9/12/06, Madison Kelly wrote: >> paul sutton wrote: >> > is there a mailing list for free-net, I am sure Tom in England can help >> > or advise here. I am chatting on irc right now. >> > >> > Paul >> >> Colin indicates that the retain market is dieing (dead?) but maybe this >> is something a government sponsorship or program might help with? I'd >> love to hear any input. Could you maybe ask him to email me (mkelly at >> alteeve . com)? If he has the time, of course. :) > > Why *should* the government artificially push the value of this up? > > That tends to lead to trouble... Not to push the retail value up; To aid in diverting machines with useful life away from landfills and into countries that could still use them - as an example. This may be totally unfeasible, I admit, but it was worth asking if nothing else. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 19:32:29 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:32:29 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 9/12/06, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 9/12/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > > Colin indicates that the retain market is dieing (dead?) but maybe this > > is something a government sponsorship or program might help with? > > Why *should* the government artificially push the value of this up? 'cause it could recoup valuable materials from an otherwise costly and toxic waste stream ? 'cause it might offset downturns in the hi-tech sector and create jobs ? 'cause it might generate some green grassroots street-cred for the politician who had the brains/testicular fortutude to do it ? > > That tends to lead to trouble... Not doing that sort of thing can also lead to trouble... ;-) djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca/sfd geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 19:39:33 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:39:33 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <4506EFE1.2050000-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060912165325.19916.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506EFE1.2050000@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060912193933.GA3000@wp.magstar.net> On Tue, Sep 12, 2006 at 01:35:29PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I still really wish that someone could figure out how to tap the > marketable potential of these boxes as LTSP thin clients. Thin-client is an ideal solution for many situations. But, it's fundamentally flawed in marketing and sale. You are trying to sell "labour-saving" device to people whose very jobs are to provide those labour. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 19:59:57 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:59:57 +0000 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <45070773.1030103-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 9/12/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > > On 9/12/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> paul sutton wrote: > >> > is there a mailing list for free-net, I am sure Tom in England can help > >> > or advise here. I am chatting on irc right now. > >> > > >> > Paul > >> > >> Colin indicates that the retain market is dieing (dead?) but maybe this > >> is something a government sponsorship or program might help with? I'd > >> love to hear any input. Could you maybe ask him to email me (mkelly at > >> alteeve . com)? If he has the time, of course. :) > > > > Why *should* the government artificially push the value of this up? > > > > That tends to lead to trouble... > > Not to push the retail value up; To aid in diverting machines with > useful life away from landfills and into countries that could still use > them - as an example. This may be totally unfeasible, I admit, but it > was worth asking if nothing else. It seems economically infeasible. We recently saw an example on this very list; a fellow whose name escapes me was given a bunch of circa-486 boxes to take them to Haiti to put together an "Internet Cafe." He quickly came to the conclusion that it was much more viable to scrap them and buy some low-end new hardware for the purpose. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 20:27:11 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:27:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060912202711.958.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Christopher Browne wrote: > On 9/12/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > > paul sutton wrote: > > > is there a mailing list for free-net, I am sure > Tom in England can help > > > or advise here. I am chatting on irc right now. > > > > > > Paul > > > > Colin indicates that the retain market is dieing > (dead?) but maybe this > > is something a government sponsorship or program > might help with? I'd > > love to hear any input. Could you maybe ask him to > email me (mkelly at > > alteeve . com)? If he has the time, of course. :) > > Why *should* the government artificially push the > value of this up? > > That tends to lead to trouble... Even though I am in the business, I will let my centre-right politics come to the fore here. The government should only get involved to the extent that it makes $ sense. For example, if spending $1 to recycle a PC saves $2 in trash hauling/dumping fees, sure, do it. If in spending $1 to recycle a PC means you train a technician and get him/her off welfare saving $2 then sure do it. But at the moment sad to say the numbers don't add up. Sorry. Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 20:38:25 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:38:25 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 9/12/06, Christopher Browne wrote: > It seems economically infeasible. We recently saw an example on this > very list; a fellow whose name escapes me was given a bunch of > circa-486 boxes to take them to Haiti to put together an "Internet > Cafe." > > He quickly came to the conclusion that it was much more viable to > scrap them and buy some low-end new hardware for the purpose. well, sure, 486s are, total doorstops, these days, but the level that folks are getting rid of is probably more like PIII, with PIIs considered totally useless ! The folks in Haiti (or Rwanda, or Chile, or) would ROCK with a network made outta dat ! one of our day-dreams, here at the caffe, is an ongoing program where we shake down the local community, for the hardware, and get the geek squad (you, reading this) to buff it up, install stuff, test it, and get it ready for shipping and remote admin. The turn-key, pallettized, and shipped using funds raised in the process. We called it INDI (International Network Deployment Initiative) and there is and will be an ongoing need for the equipment we pay to get rid of. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca/sfd geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 21:14:23 2006 From: paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org (Paul Nash) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:14:23 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> Message-ID: >! The folks in Haiti (or Rwanda, or Chile, >or) would ROCK with a network made outta dat ! Umm, I hate to burst your bubble, but ... I come from South Africa, and have done a lot of work in underdeveloped areas there and in the rest of Africa. People there do not appreciate being used as a dumping ground for useless junk ("here, Windows '95 is good enough for your needs"). There is a lot of pretty advanced work going on (I build the first 3G cellular data network there long before anyone had deployed it in North America). The first mobile WiMax network rollout is going on in Ghana. Schools with computer labs need (and have) up-to-date systems and software, usually WinXP (yetch), Win2003 (yetch), Ubuntu (guess where that effort is based?). They have 100M or gigE networks. Folk there are also throwing out p2 and p3 machines as obsolete and useless. It's just aging hackers like me who see them as potential FreeBSD servers, firewalls, or furniture. Of course, Haiti and Chile might be different ... paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 21:43:14 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:43:14 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <450729F2.7050006@telly.org> Paul Nash wrote: > Umm, I hate to burst your bubble, but ... > > I come from South Africa, and have done a lot of work in underdeveloped areas there and in the rest of Africa. People there do not appreciate being used as a dumping ground for useless junk ("here, Windows '95 is good enough for your needs"). > The obvious desire to not want someone else's hand-me-downs needs to be balanced with the fact that, with so few resources around, the choice is often old hardware or no hardware. And Windows95 (and its class of hardware), while far removed from the bleeding edge of the developed world, is still often better than no computer at all. The nice thing about using open source is that you don't have to totally make do with old technology, as current versions of open source software often run fine on older hardware. Boxes that may not be able to run anything from Microsoft newer than NT can use the most current Linux just fine. > There is a lot of pretty advanced work going on (I build the first 3G cellular data network there long before anyone had deployed it in North America). The first mobile WiMax network rollout is going on in Ghana. > Sure there's some work going on. But there are still plenty of schools with no computers in them -- then again, the electricity to run them can be overly expensive and not available everywhere. I have good hopes for the OLPC program, which strives to provide current technology at low price. > Schools with computer labs need (and have) up-to-date systems and software, usually WinXP (yetch), Win2003 (yetch), Ubuntu (guess where that effort is based?). They have 100M or gigE networks. > How many schools have computer labs? > Folk there are also throwing out p2 and p3 machines as obsolete and useless. It's just aging hackers like me who see them as potential FreeBSD servers, firewalls, or furniture. > > Of course, Haiti and Chile might be different ... > Paul, even within Africa there are countries that do better than others, and you sure as heck can't compare South Africa with the rest of the continent. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 21:47:31 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:47:31 -0400 Subject: Audio DVD? In-Reply-To: <20060912034533.06e2bb3c.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <200609022024.30020.mervc@eol.ca> <200609091417.14330.mervc@eol.ca> <20060912034533.06e2bb3c.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200609121747.32186.mervc@eol.ca> On Tuesday 12 September 2006 03:45, JoeHill wrote: > > How do you keep so much information in that encyclopedia between your > > ears? > > Paste it from Wikipedia? ;) > > /joehill ducks Ouch, below the belt.... But just in case, I'll look, I never thought of it. Keep smiling -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 17:04:24 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:04:24 +0100 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <20060912202711.958.qmail-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060912202711.958.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4506E898.9000102@utoronto.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > Even though I am in the business, I will let my > centre-right politics come to the fore here. The > government should only get involved to the extent that > it makes $ sense. For example, if spending $1 to > recycle a PC saves $2 in trash hauling/dumping fees, > sure, do it. If in spending $1 to recycle a PC means > you train a technician and get him/her off welfare > saving $2 then sure do it. But at the moment sad to > say the numbers don't add up. Sorry. Ah yes, but if the government can recycle or donate its old hardware to an overseas development program claiming the purchase price as the current value (as happened with the 486's that were destined for Haiti), the tax write off and ability to claim x dollars in charitable contributions or waste diversion may well outweigh the real costs of disposing of the units. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 17:06:29 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:06:29 +0100 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4506E915.3040008@utoronto.ca> Paul Nash wrote: >> ! The folks in Haiti (or Rwanda, or Chile, >> or) would ROCK with a network made outta dat ! > > Umm, I hate to burst your bubble, but ... > > I come from South Africa, and have done a lot of work in underdeveloped > areas there and in the rest of Africa. People there do not appreciate > being used as a dumping ground for useless junk ("here, Windows '95 is good > enough for your needs"). Not useless, see below. > There is a lot of pretty advanced work going on (I build the first 3G > cellular data network there long before anyone had deployed it in North > America). The first mobile WiMax network rollout is going on in Ghana. > > Schools with computer labs need (and have) up-to-date systems and software, > usually WinXP (yetch), Win2003 (yetch), Ubuntu (guess where that effort is > based?). They have 100M or gigE networks. Perfect, 100mbit or gigabit is important. > Folk there are also throwing out p2 and p3 machines as obsolete and > useless. It's just aging hackers like me who see them as potential FreeBSD > servers, firewalls, or furniture. But they are not when you use them as thin clients or with xdmcp. They are as fast as your server and network. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 22:13:45 2006 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:13:45 -0400 Subject: Cold War game on linux .... mouse/Joystick? Message-ID: <1158099225.4597.189.camel@stan64.site> Just bought the Cold War game for linux, it rocks on my new Nvidia card. I have never really used Linux for gaming, so I thought i would start with this game. It uses mouse and keyboard for controls and this is just killing me, being so used to a crapbox-360 crapbox-1 ps2 gamecube, where the controller is thumb joysticks. I know linux can use a pc-gaming based joystick, even some pretty fancy ones, but is there any software that can "trick" the game once running to swap the joystick for the mouse? This games doesnt seem to support joystick, but if i could get the joystick to be seen as a mouse, then my problems would be solved, else i am going to have to relearning playing games with a keyboard, yikes, that takes me back 13 years to doom on a 386! -tl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 12 23:12:46 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:12:46 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20060912231246.GA4477@wp.magstar.net> On Tue, Sep 12, 2006 at 07:59:57PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: > It seems economically infeasible. We recently saw an example on this > very list; a fellow whose name escapes me was given a bunch of > circa-486 boxes to take them to Haiti to put together an "Internet > Cafe." > > He quickly came to the conclusion that it was much more viable to > scrap them and buy some low-end new hardware for the purpose. Also, I might add, that folks in Africa and South America want what we want. In fact, they are better able to take advantage of latest technology, since they don't have lagacy support. Keep in mind that China and India makes all the hardwares that we buy. Cell phone and mud-brick house do mingle very well. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 13 00:51:02 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:51:02 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <450755F6.8000407@rogers.com> David J Patrick wrote: > On 9/12/06, Christopher Browne wrote: >> On 9/12/06, Madison Kelly wrote: >> > Colin indicates that the retain market is dieing (dead?) but maybe this >> > is something a government sponsorship or program might help with? >> >> Why *should* the government artificially push the value of this up? > 'cause it could recoup valuable materials from an otherwise costly and > toxic waste stream ? 'cause it might offset downturns in the hi-tech > sector and create jobs ? 'cause it might generate some green > grassroots street-cred for the politician who had the > brains/testicular fortutude to do it ? > >> >> That tends to lead to trouble... > Not doing that sort of thing can also lead to trouble... > ;-) > djp > There wouldn't be a lot of "hi-tech" in recycling old computers. Most of the work would require little more than a reasonably warm body to do it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 13 03:32:17 2006 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:32:17 +0800 Subject: OT: Hardware suggestion Message-ID: <200609131132.17918.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Hi ALL, I have 32 linux servers that will connect to a SAN Network.. can anyone suggest a good storage to connect to a SAN Network? EMC, SUN Storage, NetApps, DS series. I cant rely on the vendors... hmmm Thanks, Mailing-List -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 13 12:38:56 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 08:38:56 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 9/12/06, Paul Nash wrote: > >! The folks in Haiti (or Rwanda, or Chile, > >or) would ROCK with a network made outta dat ! > > Umm, I hate to burst your bubble, but ... > > I come from South Africa, and have done a lot of work in underdeveloped > areas there and in the rest of Africa. People there do not appreciate > being used as a dumping ground for useless junk ("here, Windows '95 is good > enough for your needs"). I recently blogged about a local school teacher who went to Nigeria, this summer, to help out with the schools there. They were using 286s and their "big gun" was a 386 ! for their "computer class, the students had a sheet of paper with a computer keyboard printed on it ! linuxcaffe, when we first opened, was running (smoothly !) using all PIIs, and although we were lucky enough to be able to upgrade past these humble boxes, I know from experience that this level of technology is far from junk. I don't believe that this scholl in Nigeria would see a fleet of PIIs and a P4 host, all configured with the latest and greates linux, would be seen as "dumping". A single PII laptop would have revolutionized the entire operation, and here in toronto, you could pick one up at a garage sale for $30. I, for one, do not think that efforts to revitilize and deploy our "junk" computers, in less fortunate parts of the world, would be taken as an insult. djp PS. bubble not yet bursted -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca/sfd geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 13 14:36:30 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:36:30 -0400 Subject: OT: Hardware suggestion In-Reply-To: <200609131132.17918.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200609131132.17918.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <4508176E.7000307@alteeve.com> JM wrote: > Hi ALL, > > I have 32 linux servers that will connect to a SAN Network.. can anyone > suggest a good storage to connect to a SAN Network? EMC, SUN Storage, > NetApps, DS series. > > I cant rely on the vendors... hmmm > > Thanks, I am not sure if this is what you are looking at, but StorCase (same company who make Kingston RAM which is used in most servers) have a lot of storage products. I was looking into them when I was looking at twin-tailed disk arrays. If nothing else, give them a ring as the guys there are generally very friendly. When I asked about Linux support for one of their products (unrelated) they didn't know the answer but instead of ending it there the guy went and tried out the hardware on a Linux machine in their lab. Worth a few points. :) HTH Madi PS - http://storcase.com/ specifically look at their infostation line: http://storcase.com/infostation/ifs_ovrvw.asp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 13 14:56:26 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 14:56:26 +0000 Subject: OT: Hardware suggestion In-Reply-To: <4508176E.7000307-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200609131132.17918.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <4508176E.7000307@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 9/13/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > JM wrote: > > Hi ALL, > > > > I have 32 linux servers that will connect to a SAN Network.. can anyone > > suggest a good storage to connect to a SAN Network? EMC, SUN Storage, > > NetApps, DS series. > > > > I cant rely on the vendors... hmmm > > > > Thanks, > > I am not sure if this is what you are looking at, but StorCase (same > company who make Kingston RAM which is used in most servers) have a lot > of storage products. I was looking into them when I was looking at > twin-tailed disk arrays. If nothing else, give them a ring as the guys > there are generally very friendly. > > When I asked about Linux support for one of their products (unrelated) > they didn't know the answer but instead of ending it there the guy went > and tried out the hardware on a Linux machine in their lab. Worth a few > points. :) These are *very* different kinds of animals... SAN servers tend to start at $100K, and prices can go up considerably from there. We've got some EMC units; they are surely fast, but they are evidently painful to configure. An interesting option that we were looking at recently was with @lliance Technologies; they have an iSCSI thing that apparently is *most* fascinating, spreading updates across a disk array dynamically, with the fun effect that database traffic winds up striping itself across a barrel of disks, whilst archival traffic (backups, and other things that get read/written rarely) share space cooperatively. That means that you get as many spindles as the I/O intense activities need, and can (almost magically) use the spare space for archival-style storage... http://www.alltec.com/entcomp/storage/ Alliance has some good guys... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 13 14:59:20 2006 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:59:20 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <450729F2.7050006-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> <450729F2.7050006@telly.org> Message-ID: Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Sure there's some work going on. But there are still plenty of schools > with no computers in them -- then again, the electricity to run them can > be overly expensive and not available everywhere. I have good hopes for > the OLPC program, which strives to provide current technology at low price. The power to run the machines is the key. As noted by many, "old" machines can still provide useful computing horsepower, but if access has to be carefully controlled due to the power consumption, then the usefulness is limited. BTW, the latest OLPC design has done away with the hand crank (caused too much vibration). I think the replacement is a separate unit with a foot pedal. And here's a link to photos of Squeak Etoys running on an OLPC prototype display: http://piumarta.com/photos/olpc/ As with wireless phones, if there's no existing landline infrastructure, then it may make more sense to leapfrog to the better/cheaper technology. Compare the cost of acquiring an old PC and monitor, shipping them to difficult to reach locations, and finding and paying for the electricity to run them, vs. shipping a hand-powered OLPC at a target price of $100. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 13 15:04:29 2006 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:04:29 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> Message-ID: David J Patrick wrote: > I don't believe that this scholl in Nigeria would see a fleet of PIIs > and a P4 host, all configured with the latest and greates linux, would > be seen as "dumping". A single PII laptop would have revolutionized > the entire operation, and here in toronto, you could pick one up at a > garage sale for $30. > I, for one, do not think that efforts to revitilize and deploy our > "junk" computers, in less fortunate parts of the world, would be taken > as an insult. Google "computer training africa" pops up http://www.computers4africa.org/seeds.htm and http://www.computers4africa.org/faq.htm among others. Seems to be a lot of action in Uganda. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 13 15:07:58 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:07:58 -0400 Subject: OT: Hardware suggestion In-Reply-To: References: <200609131132.17918.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <4508176E.7000307@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <45081ECE.20803@alteeve.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 9/13/06, Madison Kelly wrote: >> JM wrote: >> > Hi ALL, >> > >> > I have 32 linux servers that will connect to a SAN Network.. >> can anyone >> > suggest a good storage to connect to a SAN Network? EMC, SUN Storage, >> > NetApps, DS series. >> > >> > I cant rely on the vendors... hmmm >> > >> > Thanks, >> >> I am not sure if this is what you are looking at, but StorCase (same >> company who make Kingston RAM which is used in most servers) have a lot >> of storage products. I was looking into them when I was looking at >> twin-tailed disk arrays. If nothing else, give them a ring as the guys >> there are generally very friendly. >> >> When I asked about Linux support for one of their products (unrelated) >> they didn't know the answer but instead of ending it there the guy went >> and tried out the hardware on a Linux machine in their lab. Worth a few >> points. :) > > These are *very* different kinds of animals... > > SAN servers tend to start at $100K, and prices can go up considerably > from there. > > We've got some EMC units; they are surely fast, but they are evidently > painful to configure. > > An interesting option that we were looking at recently was with > @lliance Technologies; they have an iSCSI thing that apparently is > *most* fascinating, spreading updates across a disk array dynamically, > with the fun effect that database traffic winds up striping itself > across a barrel of disks, whilst archival traffic (backups, and other > things that get read/written rarely) share space cooperatively. > > That means that you get as many spindles as the I/O intense activities > need, and can (almost magically) use the spare space for > archival-style storage... > > http://www.alltec.com/entcomp/storage/ > > Alliance has some good guys... Figured I might be off base on this. :p Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 13 15:11:26 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:11:26 -0400 Subject: OT: Hardware suggestion In-Reply-To: <200609131132.17918.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200609131132.17918.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <200609131111.26919.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Tuesday 12 September 2006 23:32, JM wrote: > I have 32 linux servers that will connect to a SAN Network.. can anyone > suggest a good storage to connect to a SAN Network? EMC, SUN Storage, > NetApps, DS series. Depends on the purpose of the storage. Are you using SAN for DR purposes, single site or multi-site? If the SAN is just for the purpose of sharing disks in small clusters then perhaps something like HP's MSA1000 series would do the trick ... not sure exactly how many systems it can scale to but it might be worth a look. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 13 15:26:02 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 15:26:02 +0000 Subject: Interesting article on outsourcing OSS support Message-ID: http://searchopensource.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid39_gci1215240,00.html The part that is particularly heartening is thus: ====================== Q: So are you saying that every IT organization using open source should have open source liaisons that are hands-on with the technology at all times? Zachary: Yes. Resources should be designated as the primary points of contact for each open source component within the user organization. While an organization may not have internal 'experts,' there is value in taking ownership of this process, as opposed to deferring entirely to a provider. It would be a mistake for an organization to fully outsource support for open source. Instead, consider it an augmentation of internal expertise. In that case, if an organization needs help with Apache Web server, it can go to a vendor like Covalent, which provides 24/7 support for Web services. If you have no internal leads on managing and supporting open source deployments today, then an organization must educate itself in this regard or it will not gain the ability to have flexibility and vendor independence down the road. ====================== -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 13 15:28:08 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:28:08 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> <450729F2.7050006@telly.org> Message-ID: <45082388.20404@telly.org> Yanni Chiu wrote: > BTW, the latest OLPC design has done away with the > hand crank (caused too much vibration). I think > the replacement is a separate unit with a foot pedal. > And here's a link to photos of Squeak Etoys running > on an OLPC prototype display: > http://piumarta.com/photos/olpc/ With a little luck, one of these prototypes will be on display at the Seneca College FSOSS conference next month. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 00:09:03 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 20:09:03 -0400 Subject: SMART warns Boot Drive will Fail In-Reply-To: <45060543.8080801-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4505FDF9.9060805@alteeve.com> <45060089.6040409@rogers.com> <45060543.8080801@alteeve.com> Message-ID: There isn't that much of a cost of doing it wrong, as long as you have a live-cd handy and know how to use chroot (chroot /mnt/ubuntu /bin/bash, basically, but you need to mount -o bind /dev, /sys/, to /mnt/ubuntu/dev and /mnt/ubuntu/sys first, and possibly copy /etc/mtab to /mnt/ubuntu/etc first). If you want to rewrite the MBR, you use grub-install while chrooted into (or booting normally) your ubuntu installation. If you want to transfer your root partition, use a live CD or otherwise separate OS, mount the old partition, mount the newly created one, and use cp -ar /path/to/old /path/to/new, otherwise you can use tar, but make sure you preserve perms and ownerships of files (look in the man page). Sorry for the crappy instructions, I'm trying to help, but not too hard ;) If you need more info about grub, see http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=10#doc_chap2, which explains how to set it up if you're chrooting into the install you're setting up, from a livecd or other OS. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 13 21:06:37 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (paul sutton) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 21:06:37 +0000 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <20060912231246.GA4477-SBOj+Tp9hCvc29vQ/UIUOA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> <20060912231246.GA4477@wp.magstar.net> Message-ID: <450872DD.5080003@zleap.net> Not sure what a AMD k6/2 500 is equivilent to in terms of intel hardware ( I am thinking p2 ) but I took my old one down the rugby club, it's running windows 98, and has 256 mbof ram, and i installed open office , connected my old printer (which is in bad shape), however the purpose I am using it for it works great, ok a bit slow, but I am used to a Duron 1600 with 1gb ram, but i just use it to type stuff out for people at the club. Old hardware is still perfectly usable, it just depends on what you want to use it for, I have a p3 900 with 256 ram, (laptop) running debian, in fact it runs it extremely well, so again it's older hardware but for doing what I do it works and that all that matters, as someone said faster hardware does not mean I will get my work done any quicker. I am sure there are lots of people out there who would apreciate the older hardware, paul > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 01:15:07 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 21:15:07 -0400 Subject: Free computer hardwares Message-ID: <20060914011507.GA10570@wp.magstar.net> I would like to give away the following items. Contact me off-list, if you want any. 1. Dual-P3/600MHz: - Abit VP6 dual motherboard, 4x128 PC-133 SDRAM, 2x20GB IBM harddisk, ATI Rage XL AGP, 3Com 905C, DLink Ralink wireless PCI, 2 port USB2.0 PCI, Enlight 300W ATX case. This has been my workhorse for many years. I even put a handle on top of the case. 2. 2xP3/800MHz: - cpu's only. They were pulled from my other dual-P3s. 3. CRT Monitors: - 12" IBM 8503 monochrome - 17" noname color - 17" NEC Multisync 75 - 21" Nanao FlexScan 6500 monochrome (heavy, you need car) 4. Cases: - Aopen mATX 250W tower -- empty case, fairly new, has handle on top - Enlight ATX 250W tower -- has P2 in it, has handle on top 5. Keyboards: - lots of PS/2 keyboards -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 01:48:53 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 21:48:53 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4508B505.2010605@rogers.com> David J Patrick wrote: > On 9/12/06, Paul Nash wrote: >> >! The folks in Haiti (or Rwanda, or Chile, >> >or) would ROCK with a network made outta dat ! >> >> Umm, I hate to burst your bubble, but ... >> >> I come from South Africa, and have done a lot of work in underdeveloped >> areas there and in the rest of Africa. People there do not appreciate >> being used as a dumping ground for useless junk ("here, Windows '95 is >> good >> enough for your needs"). > > I recently blogged about a local school teacher who went to Nigeria, > this summer, to help out with the schools there. They were using 286s > and their "big gun" was a 386 ! for their "computer class, the > students had a sheet of paper with a computer keyboard printed on it ! > linuxcaffe, when we first opened, was running (smoothly !) using all > PIIs, and although we were lucky enough to be able to upgrade past > these humble boxes, I know from experience that this level of > technology is far from junk. > I don't believe that this scholl in Nigeria would see a fleet of PIIs > and a P4 host, all configured with the latest and greates linux, would > be seen as "dumping". A single PII laptop would have revolutionized > the entire operation, and here in toronto, you could pick one up at a > garage sale for $30. > I, for one, do not think that efforts to revitilize and deploy our > "junk" computers, in less fortunate parts of the world, would be taken > as an insult. > djp > > PS. bubble not yet bursted One concern would be power line voltage. Many computers sold here only run on 120V power. What's the line voltage in Africa? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 01:56:07 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 21:56:07 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <450872DD.5080003-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> <20060912231246.GA4477@wp.magstar.net> <450872DD.5080003@zleap.net> Message-ID: On 9/13/06, paul sutton wrote: > I am sure there are lots of people out there who would apreciate the > older hardware, That doesn't contradict the notion that it is likely as economical for the would-be recipients in Africa to *instead* import low end modern hardware. I'll bet that it takes $100 worth of North American labour to prepare that Pentium II box to head to Africa. And then it'll cost $50 to ship it over. I'd be unsurprised if it took another $50 to bribe enough that there's a chance of it getting past the docks... At that point, you have something a fraction as powerful as a $300 new beige box. "Bleeding heart donors" may feel good about having "done something," but it doesn't make it great economics. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 02:10:05 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 22:10:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Host for commercial mail list? Message-ID: <51020.207.188.88.64.1158199805.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> I'd like to ask the group for advice on choosing a company to host a commercial mailing list. There are free mail list hosting services out there, but I assume they are for non-commercial use. And we can't use something that supported by advertising. The company we're currently using for web page hosting charges about $50 per month to host a mail list, which strikes me as a bit high. It could be anywhere in the world, but it would be a bonus to use a local business. Any suggestions would be welcome. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 02:25:00 2006 From: paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org (Paul Nash) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 22:25:00 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <4508B505.2010605-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> <4508B505.2010605@rogers.com> Message-ID: >One concern would be power line voltage. Many computers sold here only >run on 120V power. What's the line voltage in Africa? Most is 220/240VAC at 50Hz, but varies between 0 and 11kV, depending on where you are. 12V is common (recycled car batteries) in rural areas. paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 02:31:23 2006 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 22:31:23 -0400 Subject: Host for commercial mail list? In-Reply-To: <51020.207.188.88.64.1158199805.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <51020.207.188.88.64.1158199805.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1f13df280609131931udfbfc16sa60405d1904f35f6@mail.gmail.com> On 9/13/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > I'd like to ask the group for advice on choosing a company to host a > commercial mailing list. There are free mail list hosting services out > there, but I assume they are for non-commercial use. And we can't use > something that supported by advertising. > > The company we're currently using for web page hosting charges about $50 > per month to host a mail list, which strikes me as a bit high. > > It could be anywhere in the world, but it would be a bonus to use a local > business. My web hosting service (http://jaguarpc.com/) charges me about $8US/month for 6 gigabytes of space and lots of bandwidth, and mailing lists (many times many, if you care to run them) are an incidental extra. I ran a couple lists with their software, no problem. I've been with them four years, just paid for another year because both their services and support are excellent. They're not local though: Texas. I found them when I lived and worked in the US, and they still look like a very good deal. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 03:11:04 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 23:11:04 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> <20060912231246.GA4477@wp.magstar.net> <450872DD.5080003@zleap.net> Message-ID: <4508C848.7050409@telly.org> Christopher Browne wrote: > "Bleeding heart donors" may feel good about having "done something," > but it doesn't make it great economics. Arguably the same could be said about _most_ recycling programs. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 03:15:35 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 23:15:35 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> <4508B505.2010605@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 9/13/06, Paul Nash wrote: > > >One concern would be power line voltage. Many computers sold here only > >run on 120V power. What's the line voltage in Africa? > > Most is 220/240VAC at 50Hz, but varies between 0 and 11kV, depending on > where you are. 12V is common (recycled car batteries) in rural areas. I'd be curious as to the relative merits of elder versus newer systems in view of the issue of power consumption. The power troubles both here and in California over the last few years has led to considerable interest in computer systems that have lower power consumption. An interesting recent release: Movidis.com is selling systems based on the OCTEON? CN3860, a 16-core, 64-bit MIPS processor. It runs Linux, specifically Debian, which strikes me as the ideal choice for this, as it gives them a wide scope of software without the need for Movidis to sponsor yet another obscure Red Hat variation that'll quickly turn to crud (as happened with the Cobalt Qube...) At any rate, one of the claimed merits to this system is that it gives you a LOT of megahertz of processing power at a power cost of only 50 watts. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 03:55:53 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 23:55:53 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <20060912182952.56277.qmail-JoSsSUNfUciB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <4506EFE1.2050000@telly.org> <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060914035553.GB16693@waltdnes.org> On Tue, Sep 12, 2006 at 02:29:52PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote > I expect XP will be around for a LONG time. Unless Windows Genuine (ahem) Advantage shuts it down at a specific time. > > So does that mean that slightly old but perfectly > > functioning OS-less > > PCs are available at REALLY cheap rates? I assumed > > that many donators to > > places like Reboot have already written off their > > gear and are thankful > > for anything they get. What's the going rate for a > > vanilla P3 system > > with decent video? > > Well, there is still some discussion inside the Toronto Free-Net > about prices we will be offering used boxes at. So I am not willing > to comment on that other than to say not much for a complete package, > PC, monitor, keyboard, mouse... http://www.sub500.com/199s.htm shows $170 for a factory-refurbished 1.7 ghz P4 with 256 megs of RAM, a 20 gig drive, and a CD, keyboard, and speakers, with Linspire. Do you realize I paid more than 10 times as much for my 1999 Dell, PIII, 450 mhz, 128 megs of RAM, 35 gig drive, CD, keyboard, and speakers... sigh. Anything below P4 will be worthless soon. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 04:01:23 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 00:01:23 -0400 Subject: Ultimate FOSS mailserver? Message-ID: <4508D413.90506@telly.org> Hi all, I'll be installing a new mailserver for someone, so I can start from scratch rather than upgradiing from something else. So far the intention is to install the following components: - Postfix email server - SpamAssassin spam-removal system (with Maia web-based configuration interface) - Courier IMAP server - GPG - Mailman mailing list management - Clam anti-virus - Squirrel webmail 1) Are each of the above tools still considered at or near the top of their fields? 2) I don't have a lot of experience with Clam -- how is it? Is there a need to go to a commercial system like Sophos or will Clam fit the bill? 3) One important component missing above is a groupware (shared calendar/todo-list) system. Is there yet an open soure system that will support Outlook Express (or optionally, the Lightning extension to Thunderbird)? How mature are the open source exchange replacements such as oser? In general, how have TLUGers done this in other installations? 4) Are there specialized distributions or bundles that people can recommend for an install like this? Or is it OK to just pick the parts out of a conventional distro? Any help is appreciated. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jab-76OBl6+JcyzDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 04:35:47 2006 From: jab-76OBl6+JcyzDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Jeremy Baker) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 00:35:47 -0400 Subject: Ultimate FOSS mailserver? In-Reply-To: <4508D413.90506-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4508D413.90506@telly.org> Message-ID: <200609140035.47854.jab@muskokatech.ca> On Thursday 14 September 2006 00:01, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hi all, > > I'll be installing a new mailserver for someone, so I can start from > scratch rather than upgradiing from something else. > > So far the intention is to install the following components: > - Postfix email server > - SpamAssassin spam-removal system (with Maia web-based configuration > interface) > - Courier IMAP server > - GPG > - Mailman mailing list management > - Clam anti-virus > - Squirrel webmail > > > 1) Are each of the above tools still considered at or near the top of > their fields? > > 2) I don't have a lot of experience with Clam -- how is it? Is there a > need to go to a commercial system like Sophos or will Clam fit the bill? > > 3) One important component missing above is a groupware (shared > calendar/todo-list) system. Is there yet an open soure system that will > support Outlook Express (or optionally, the Lightning extension to > Thunderbird)? How mature are the open source exchange replacements such > as oser? In general, how have TLUGers done this in other installations? > > 4) Are there specialized distributions or bundles that people can > recommend for an install like this? Or is it OK to just pick the parts > out of a conventional distro? > > Any help is appreciated. > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists I have been using clam for a couple of years with amavis to scan all incoming mail to my server, and it has worked great. I don't know what you would gain with Sophos. I think my setup is pretty much identical to yours, except I also have postgrey in the mix, and is working fine on a FC4 installation. You will have to build the rpms for courier, but it doesn't take much effort. All in all, the products you have listed integrate quite easily. -- Jeremy Baker GnuPGP fingerprint = EE66 AC49 E008 E09A 7A2A ?0195 50EF 580B EDBB 95B6 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 11:36:20 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 07:36:20 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> <4508B505.2010605@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45093EB4.8060502@rogers.com> Paul Nash wrote: >> One concern would be power line voltage. Many computers sold here only >> run on 120V power. What's the line voltage in Africa? > > Most is 220/240VAC at 50Hz, but varies between 0 and 11kV, depending on > where you are. 12V is common (recycled car batteries) in rural areas. 11Kv? Isn't that a bit dangerous? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 11:51:29 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 07:51:29 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <45093EB4.8060502-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> <4508B505.2010605@rogers.com> <45093EB4.8060502@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 9/14/06, James Knott wrote: > Paul Nash wrote: > > Most is 220/240VAC at 50Hz, but varies between 0 and 11kV, depending on > > where you are. 12V is common (recycled car batteries) in rural areas. > > 11Kv? Isn't that a bit dangerous? not if you keep the conductors separate, and run them from, say, one telephone pole to another. That's how Toronto Hydro does it, anyhoo. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca/sfd geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 12:31:10 2006 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 08:31:10 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <4508C848.7050409-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> <20060912231246.GA4477@wp.magstar.net> <450872DD.5080003@zleap.net> <4508C848.7050409@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060914123110.6E4E483833@sarg.ryerson.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > "Bleeding heart donors" may feel good about having "done something," > but it doesn't make it great economics. Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Arguably the same could be said about _most_ recycling programs. ...if you consider no economic cost for enviromental degradation. Neither the manufacture nor the disposal of most electronic equipment are particularly green! So it behooves us to make as much use of them as possible. That said, there is a point at which greater power consumption of older systems, and potentially worse disposal practices (although that's fairly hard to imagine) might make sending of old equipment to "3rd world" countries uneconomic even factoring in environmental impact. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 12:38:25 2006 From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 07:38:25 -0500 (CDT) Subject: multi-function B/W laser printer device Message-ID: hey all, anyone have a favorite brand for a multi-function (fax, copy, etc.) B/W laser printer device? Scott -- Scott C. Ripley phone: (416)738-6357 www: http://www.scottripley.com email: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Secure Your E-Mail! http://www.mysecuremail.com/javascrypt/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 12:41:37 2006 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (Jerome Macaranas) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 20:41:37 +0800 Subject: OT: Hardware suggestion In-Reply-To: <200609131111.26919.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200609131132.17918.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <200609131111.26919.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <200609142041.37845.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Ill be using it for storage of videos and database... any experience in using IBM's DS series of storage compared to EMC like the CX300? IIRC CX300 is not the main stream product of EMC since the product was produced by clarion.. (am i right?) On Wednesday 13 September 2006 23:11, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Tuesday 12 September 2006 23:32, JM wrote: > > I have 32 linux servers that will connect to a SAN Network.. can anyone > > suggest a good storage to connect to a SAN Network? EMC, SUN Storage, > > NetApps, DS series. > > Depends on the purpose of the storage. Are you using SAN for DR purposes, > single site or multi-site? > > If the SAN is just for the purpose of sharing disks in small clusters then > perhaps something like HP's MSA1000 series would do the trick ... not sure > exactly how many systems it can scale to but it might be worth a look. Mailing-List -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 12:41:03 2006 From: paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org (Paul Nash) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 08:41:03 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <45093EB4.8060502-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> <4508B505.2010605@rogers.com> <45093EB4.8060502@rogers.com> Message-ID: >11Kv? Isn't that a bit dangerous? Yup. You should see what happens when the 11kV sub-feeder "leaks" into a 220V line. I had a UPS that went "bang" in a big way, along with almost every other electrical appliance (a catenary cable broke & dropped the 11kV lines onto the 380V lines that were strung along the same pole). Doesn't happen often, but when it does .... There are also case where poor folk "steal" power with illegal taps. Sometimes they can't tell the difference ... paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 13:46:57 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 09:46:57 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <20060914123110.6E4E483833-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> <20060912231246.GA4477@wp.magstar.net> <450872DD.5080003@zleap.net> <4508C848.7050409@telly.org> <20060914123110.6E4E483833@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On 9/14/06, Dave Mason wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > > "Bleeding heart donors" may feel good about having "done something," > > but it doesn't make it great economics. > > Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Arguably the same could be said about _most_ recycling programs. > > ...if you consider no economic cost for enviromental degradation. We don't have a way to objectively evaluate that cost, nor do we have a way to apply such a cost. If you're making up numbers, you can make up that recycling is as worthwhile as you wish it were. That doesn't come anywhere near making it so. That it is worthwhile, presented "ipso facto," is today's politically correct "voodoo economics." -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 13:54:28 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 09:54:28 -0400 Subject: multi-function B/W laser printer device In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45095F14.6080306@utoronto.ca> I don't have a favourite brand, but I would look into HP, Samsung, and Canon. But double check how a particular model will play with Linux. I wouldn't necessarily reject any brand off-hand. It appears that all-in-one laser printers have yet to reach the market mainstream. The printer manufacturer's like to push their inkjet lines because they make more money on the consumables. Consumer Reports has done reviews on single function laser printers and multi-function inkjets, but they haven't yet done any yet on multi-function lasers. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From LLanktree-BI68pzi1WsjYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 14:28:29 2006 From: LLanktree-BI68pzi1WsjYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Lorie Lanktree) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 10:28:29 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <4508C848.7050409-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4508C848.7050409@telly.org> Message-ID: Hi All Economics, from the greek for "house money", is far from being an exact science. One could argue the digging a hole in the ground, in the middle of nowhere, to get some very ugly black stuff is very uneconomical. But there are lots of people doing it. Lorie Lanktree -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Evan Leibovitch Sent: 13-Sep-06 11:11 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: hardware recycling Christopher Browne wrote: > "Bleeding heart donors" may feel good about having "done something," > but it doesn't make it great economics. Arguably the same could be said about _most_ recycling programs. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 14:29:52 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 10:29:52 -0400 Subject: multi-function B/W laser printer device In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45096760.3010408@telly.org> Scott C. Ripley wrote: > anyone have a favorite brand for a multi-function (fax, copy, etc.) > B/W laser printer device? At least in terms of Linux support, you can't beat HP; it's taken great lengths to provide official printing, scanning and fax (sending) support for its devices. You can check ahead of time how well a particular model is supported at http://hplip.sourceforge.net/supported_devices/mono_laser_mfp.html Also reasonably good in support are Brother and Epson, with Canon a notch or two below that. I also know of some people who would just say "anything but Lexmark". - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 15:03:00 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:03:00 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> <4508B505.2010605@rogers.com> <45093EB4.8060502@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45096F24.9000102@rogers.com> David J Patrick wrote: > On 9/14/06, James Knott wrote: >> Paul Nash wrote: > >> > Most is 220/240VAC at 50Hz, but varies between 0 and 11kV, depending on >> > where you are. 12V is common (recycled car batteries) in rural areas. >> >> 11Kv? Isn't that a bit dangerous? > > not if you keep the conductors separate, and run them from, say, one > telephone pole to another. That's how Toronto Hydro does it, anyhoo. And how many people run their computer with it? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 15:05:21 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:05:21 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> <4508B505.2010605@rogers.com> <45093EB4.8060502@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45096FB1.2030608@rogers.com> Paul Nash wrote: >> 11Kv? Isn't that a bit dangerous? > > Yup. You should see what happens when the 11kV sub-feeder "leaks" into a > 220V line. I had a UPS that went "bang" in a big way, along with almost > every other electrical appliance (a catenary cable broke & dropped the 11kV > lines onto the 380V lines that were strung along the same pole). > > Doesn't happen often, but when it does .... > > There are also case where poor folk "steal" power with illegal taps. > Sometimes they can't tell the difference ... I bet they soon find out! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 15:06:01 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:06:01 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <20060914123110.6E4E483833-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> <20060912231246.GA4477@wp.magstar.net> <450872DD.5080003@zleap.net> <4508C848.7050409@telly.org> <20060914123110.6E4E483833@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <45096FD9.7030507@telly.org> Dave Mason wrote: >> "Bleeding heart donors" may feel good about having "done something," >> but it doesn't make it great economics. > >> Arguably the same could be said about _most_ recycling programs. >> > > ...if you consider no economic cost for enviromental degradation. > Unfortunately, the resources used to provide the energy used in recycling (to drive the plants) and the necessary chemicals are often rarely evaluated for _their_ degradation costs when calculating the relative merits of various approaches. Sometimes (often?) a recycling effort can waste more resources than it reclaims. > Neither the manufacture nor the disposal of most electronic equipment are particularly green! Sending old computers to other countries can also be seen as a form of 'disposal', even if they're functional. While there's some good to be had in finding new uses for old computers, eventually they will be unusable, and the nasty task of reducing that equipment into components that can be buried, burned, decomposed or recycled becomes Someone Else's Problem. Unfortunately, waste reduction is a field dominated as much by emotion as fact; and one of the predominant emotions is guilt. Sending old PCs to developing countries accomplishes some good for the recipient, but that good is likely far outweighed by that of the senders who are enabled to alleviate multiple forms of guilt. The tax deduction doesn't hurt, either. I don't think that anyone has really crunched the numbers to determine the total value and cost of sending old PCs to the developing world (as opposed to developing cheaper ones to buy new). I suspect that the numbers would gore a few sacred cows. > So it behooves us to make as much use of them as possible. That said, there is a point at which greater power > consumption of older systems, and potentially worse disposal practices (although that's fairly hard to imagine) It's easy to imagine. There are areas of China that have destroyed the local water supply for generations because of the chemicals used to extract precious metals from circuit boards and other IT parts. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 15:09:57 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:09:57 -0400 Subject: Ultimate FOSS mailserver? In-Reply-To: <4508D413.90506-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4508D413.90506@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060914150957.GE13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 14, 2006 at 12:01:23AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I'll be installing a new mailserver for someone, so I can start from > scratch rather than upgradiing from something else. > > So far the intention is to install the following components: > - Postfix email server > - SpamAssassin spam-removal system (with Maia web-based configuration > interface) > - Courier IMAP server > - GPG > - Mailman mailing list management > - Clam anti-virus > - Squirrel webmail > > > 1) Are each of the above tools still considered at or near the top of > their fields? As far as I can tell, yes. I personally find spamassassin a useless slowpoke, so I use bogofilter instead. Works well for a suer, but requries some interaction to update it once in a while if it makes a mistake. Perhaps not the best choice for a mail server. > 2) I don't have a lot of experience with Clam -- how is it? Is there a > need to go to a commercial system like Sophos or will Clam fit the bill? Well the price is good, and since it will just be scanning email, it probably would be OK. > 3) One important component missing above is a groupware (shared > calendar/todo-list) system. Is there yet an open soure system that will > support Outlook Express (or optionally, the Lightning extension to > Thunderbird)? How mature are the open source exchange replacements such > as oser? In general, how have TLUGers done this in other installations? No clue. Apparently evolution can now talk to exchange. Not what you are asking for though. > 4) Are there specialized distributions or bundles that people can > recommend for an install like this? Or is it OK to just pick the parts > out of a conventional distro? I always find Debian has packages for everything. :) > Any help is appreciated. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 15:15:09 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:15:09 -0400 Subject: multi-function B/W laser printer device In-Reply-To: <45096760.3010408-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45096760.3010408@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060914151509.GF13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 14, 2006 at 10:29:52AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > At least in terms of Linux support, you can't beat HP; it's taken great > lengths to provide official printing, scanning and fax (sending) support > for its devices. You can check ahead of time how well a particular model > is supported at > http://hplip.sourceforge.net/supported_devices/mono_laser_mfp.html HP has certainly improved their support for linux. Their printers seem fairly reliable too. I wish their inkjet quality matched that of the epson's, but I guess you can't have it all. > Also reasonably good in support are Brother and Epson, with Canon a > notch or two below that. Certainly my experience with canon's is that they are often very badly supported if at all. And then there is the lousy print quality on top of that. Why bother. With brother I have only used a few of them, and they were in my opinion cheap junk, with lousy support due mainly to emulating HP devices (just not fully or properly). I won't buy anything made by brother anymore. > I also know of some people who would just say "anything but Lexmark". Yeah avoid those. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 15:22:05 2006 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:22:05 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <45096FD9.7030507-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> <20060912231246.GA4477@wp.magstar.net> <450872DD.5080003@zleap.net> <4508C848.7050409@telly.org> <20060914123110.6E4E483833@sarg.ryerson.ca> <45096FD9.7030507@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060914152205.0B65085500@sarg.ryerson.ca> Dave Mason wrote: > So it behooves us to make as much use of them as possible. That said, > there is a point at which greater power consumption of older systems, > and potentially worse disposal practices (although that's fairly hard > to imagine) Evan Leibovitch wrote: > It's easy to imagine. There are areas of China that have destroyed the > local water supply for generations because of the chemicals used to > extract precious metals from circuit boards and other IT parts. Yes. One could argue that that is actually *our* disposal practice, since North America and Europe have been the source of the vast majority of those e-parts. I agree with Evan's comment that the real cost of sending computers to the "3rd world" hasn't been calculated, and would likely be surprising along several vectors. But I'll stop contributing to this thread since it's clear that a lot of people here don't want to think of environmental costs until they have to. I find that sad, cuz I like to think that techies are more responsible and aware than most, but that's my problem. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 15:24:06 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:24:06 -0400 Subject: multi-function B/W laser printer device In-Reply-To: <45096760.3010408-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45096760.3010408@telly.org> Message-ID: <200609141124.07561.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Thursday 14 September 2006 10:29, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Scott C. Ripley wrote: > > anyone have a favorite brand for a multi-function (fax, copy, > > etc.) B/W laser printer device? > > At least in terms of Linux support, you can't beat HP; it's taken > great lengths to provide official printing, scanning and fax > (sending) support for its devices. You can check ahead of time how > well a particular model is supported at > http://hplip.sourceforge.net/supported_devices/mono_laser_mfp.html > > Also reasonably good in support are Brother and Epson, with Canon a > notch or two below that. > > I also know of some people who would just say "anything but > Lexmark". And some, like me, who swear by Lexmark equipment, though admittedly, we've never sold the consumer, all-in-one, or inkjet models, just their B&W lasers. They are built like tanks and I have had no problems with driver support in Linux. I use a 1650n and it's actually easier to install in Linux using CUPS than with Windows. One of the Lexmarks we sold a few years ago, an Optra S 2450, has printed 1.3 million copies with nothing more than regular preventative maintenance and toner cartridges. You can often find inexpensive refurbished units, though the copy counts are luck of the draw. A batch we sold ranged from 10k to 200k copies but all are working fine at least two years later. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 15:48:06 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:48:06 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <20060914152205.0B65085500-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> <20060912231246.GA4477@wp.magstar.net> <450872DD.5080003@zleap.net> <4508C848.7050409@telly.org> <20060914123110.6E4E483833@sarg.ryerson.ca> <45096FD9.7030507@telly.org> <20060914152205.0B65085500@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <450979B6.2060701@telly.org> Dave Mason wrote: > But I'll stop contributing to this thread since it's clear that a lot of people here don't want to think of environmental costs until they have to. I find that sad, cuz I like to think that techies are more responsible and aware than most, but that's my problem. > I hear ya; "what happens to old computers?" is the geek equivalent of "what's in that hot dog?". - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 15:54:20 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:54:20 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <45096F24.9000102-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4508B505.2010605@rogers.com> <45093EB4.8060502@rogers.com> <45096F24.9000102@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 9/14/06, James Knott wrote: > David J Patrick wrote: > > On 9/14/06, James Knott wrote: > >> Paul Nash wrote: > > > >> > Most is 220/240VAC at 50Hz, but varies between 0 and 11kV, depending on > >> > where you are. 12V is common (recycled car batteries) in rural areas. > >> > >> 11Kv? Isn't that a bit dangerous? > > > > not if you keep the conductors separate, and run them from, say, one > > telephone pole to another. That's how Toronto Hydro does it, anyhoo. > > And how many people run their computer with it? You mean, how many neighbourhoods of people ? lots ! just a little step down to 600v, then to 120v and there ya go ! -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca/sfd geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 15 15:55:30 2006 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 11:55:30 -0400 Subject: multi-function B/W laser printer device In-Reply-To: <20060914151509.GF13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <45096760.3010408@telly.org> <20060914151509.GF13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <450ACCF2.2090603@golden.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 14, 2006 at 10:29:52AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >> At least in terms of Linux support, you can't beat HP; it's taken great >> lengths to provide official printing, scanning and fax (sending) support >> for its devices. You can check ahead of time how well a particular model >> is supported at >> http://hplip.sourceforge.net/supported_devices/mono_laser_mfp.html >> > > HP has certainly improved their support for linux. Their printers seem > fairly reliable too. I wish their inkjet quality matched that of the > epson's, but I guess you can't have it all. > > >> Also reasonably good in support are Brother and Epson, with Canon a >> notch or two below that. >> > > Certainly my experience with canon's is that they are often very badly > supported if at all. And then there is the lousy print quality on top > of that. Why bother. > > With brother I have only used a few of them, and they were in my opinion > cheap junk, with lousy support due mainly to emulating HP devices (just > not fully or properly). I won't buy anything made by brother anymore. > > >> I also know of some people who would just say "anything but Lexmark". >> > > Yeah avoid those. > > Ditto on Lexmark IMHO I find the Samsung products great. There 4200 B&W multifunction claims supports Linux. I have a 2010 Laser and it works great. Check http://www.samsung.com/ca/products/printer/multifunctionproducts/scx_4200xaa.asp?page=Specifications $129.00 at Future Shop this week. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 16:07:06 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 12:07:06 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <20060914152205.0B65085500-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20060912182952.56277.qmail@web88208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4506C705.7070200@zleap.net> <4506FFAC.3070405@alteeve.com> <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> <20060912231246.GA4477@wp.magstar.net> <450872DD.5080003@zleap.net> <4508C848.7050409@telly.org> <20060914123110.6E4E483833@sarg.ryerson.ca> <45096FD9.7030507@telly.org> <20060914152205.0B65085500@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: Dave Mason wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> It's easy to imagine. There are areas of China that have destroyed the >> local water supply for generations because of the chemicals used to >> extract precious metals from circuit boards and other IT parts. > > Yes. One could argue that that is actually *our* disposal practice, > since North America and Europe have been the source of the vast majority > of those e-parts. > > I agree with Evan's comment that the real cost of sending computers to > the "3rd world" hasn't been calculated, and would likely be surprising > along several vectors. > > But I'll stop contributing to this thread since it's clear that a lot of > people here don't want to think of environmental costs until they have > to. I find that sad, cuz I like to think that techies are more > responsible and aware than most, but that's my problem. If we were to be as responsible as we'd like to think we should be/are, we'd likely reconsider purchasing new equipment altogether based on the environmental impact of manufacturing our shiny new PCBs, never mind their disposal. For all the parts that are recycled, those same chemicals to which Evan alludes were used in the manufacture of said parts. It strikes me that while recycling is an important issue/topic for discussion and practice, focusing on recycling is a rather effective way to avoid considering just how what it is we recycle gets made in the first place. I read a few years ago that PCB manufacturing takes an enormous amount of raw material to produce a single motherboard (I recall as least a few hundred lbs...) I can't find the figures though so I trust no one will take my word for it. I'll try searching a little more. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 16:46:03 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 12:46:03 -0400 Subject: hardware recycling In-Reply-To: <45097E2A.6020502-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <45070773.1030103@alteeve.com> <20060912231246.GA4477@wp.magstar.net> <450872DD.5080003@zleap.net> <4508C848.7050409@telly.org> <20060914123110.6E4E483833@sarg.ryerson.ca> <45096FD9.7030507@telly.org> <20060914152205.0B65085500@sarg.ryerson.ca> <45097E2A.6020502@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060914164603.GG13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 14, 2006 at 12:07:06PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > If we were to be as responsible as we'd like to think we should be/are, > we'd likely reconsider purchasing new equipment altogether based on the > environmental impact of manufacturing our shiny new PCBs, never mind > their disposal. For all the parts that are recycled, those same > chemicals to which Evan alludes were used in the manufacture of said parts. > > It strikes me that while recycling is an important issue/topic for > discussion and practice, focusing on recycling is a rather effective way > to avoid considering just how what it is we recycle gets made in the > first place. > > I read a few years ago that PCB manufacturing takes an enormous amount > of raw material to produce a single motherboard (I recall as least a few > hundred lbs...) I can't find the figures though so I trust no one will > take my word for it. I'll try searching a little more. Given the cost of a PCB, I find that to be very unlikely. There will certainly be some nasty chemicals involved, but hundreds of pounds, I don't think so. I suspect a lot of them can also be reused for many boards. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 16:47:39 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 12:47:39 -0400 Subject: multi-function B/W laser printer device In-Reply-To: <200609141124.07561.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45096760.3010408@telly.org> <200609141124.07561.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20060914164739.GH13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 14, 2006 at 11:24:06AM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > And some, like me, who swear by Lexmark equipment, though admittedly, > we've never sold the consumer, all-in-one, or inkjet models, just > their B&W lasers. They are built like tanks and I have had no > problems with driver support in Linux. I use a 1650n and it's > actually easier to install in Linux using CUPS than with Windows. One > of the Lexmarks we sold a few years ago, an Optra S 2450, has printed > 1.3 million copies with nothing more than regular preventative > maintenance and toner cartridges. You can often find inexpensive > refurbished units, though the copy counts are luck of the draw. A > batch we sold ranged from 10k to 200k copies but all are working fine > at least two years later. OK, the lexmark laser printers (the higher end ones with postscript and all that) are very nice printers. But then again for that price you could get a xerox laser printer that is probably even nicer. Their inkjets really are crap. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 17:21:52 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:21:52 -0400 Subject: Host for commercial mail list? In-Reply-To: <51020.207.188.88.64.1158199805.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <51020.207.188.88.64.1158199805.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On 9/13/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > I'd like to ask the group for advice on choosing a company to host a > commercial mailing list. There are free mail list hosting services out > there, but I assume they are for non-commercial use. And we can't use > something that supported by advertising. > > The company we're currently using for web page hosting charges about $50 > per month to host a mail list, which strikes me as a bit high. > > It could be anywhere in the world, but it would be a bonus to use a local > business. > > Any suggestions would be welcome. I use pair Networks (http://www.pair.com) as my web provider, and they have a free mailing list service ( http://www.pair.com/services/mailing_lists/index.html). The fine print says 'pricing .. will be announced in the near future' but that's just their way of saying that it's free now, but we reserve the right to charge for it later. It's been a couple of years, and there are no additional charges for mailing lists yet. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 18:15:30 2006 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 20:15:30 +0200 Subject: : Message-ID: <63660c200609141115q53445b64n5b4f40fff5d0c34e@mail.gmail.com> unsubscribe -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 12:30:05 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:30:05 +0200 Subject: subscriptions In-Reply-To: <63660c200609141115q53445b64n5b4f40fff5d0c34e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <63660c200609141115q53445b64n5b4f40fff5d0c34e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: sorry, forgot the right email address. Trying to organize email and accounts today. I had TLUG on 3 email accounts. teddy mills wrote: > unsubscribe > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 19:39:58 2006 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 15:39:58 -0400 Subject: Brawling with BitTorrent In-Reply-To: <44EAF70B.1020503-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ@public.gmane.org> References: <44EAF70B.1020503@execulink.com> Message-ID: <4509B00E.5030605@interlog.com> Gregory D Hough wrote: > These UDP's are hitting my IP every twenty minutes and some seconds. So > before I start throwing some brutal packets at the offending IP, I'd > like to know what is the proper way to make it stop. Have you checked to make sure you aren't running one of the BitTorrent daemons (either or both of the seeder or tracker)? -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 19:40:41 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 15:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Software Freedom Day! Message-ID: <20060914194041.1757.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> This was passed on to me by Jane Zhang, and I thought that it might be of some interest to the members of the Greater Toronto Linux user group, why I am not sure :-) ... What if anything is happening with the plans for a Software Freedom day event at Linuxcaffe? I would not want to be in a position where I had to choose between two events at the same time :-( ... Colin. --- Jane Zhang [snip] wrote: > From: "Jane Zhang" [snip] > To: [snip] > Subject: Software Freedom Day! > Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 15:24:32 -0400 > > Hello All, > > > > I'm helping the Toronto Chapter of the Ubuntu users > group to help celebrate > Software Freedom Day this Saturday Sept 16th. The > plan to have a mini-demo > fest at CSI from 10am to 2pm. Here's a copy of the > press release they have > written up. I hope to see some of you there! Please > please feel free to > promote the event. (you can find it on upcoming.org) > > > > Thanks! > > > > Jane > > > > --- > > Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) enthusiasts > around the world will once > again take to the streets for the third annual > Software Freedom Day (SFD) on > September 16th. The movement towards Open Source > Software has been gaining > momentum through the increasing popularity of Linux > computer operating > systems. Open Source software has freely available > source code that > encourages the user of the software to improve, > develop and share their > improvements. > > In Toronto, the Linux User Group (LUG) called Ubuntu > Toronto will be handing > out free Ubuntu CDs and providing demonstrations at > the Centre for Social > Innovation, 215 Spadina Ave. Suite 120, between 10am > and 2pm. Following this > event, Ubuntu Toronto members will be providing > online, real-time support > via a web-based chat, found at > http://www.linuxcaffe... > > > Ten teams in Canada will join 137 teams from more > than 100 countries around > the world in celebrating software freedom through > installfests, free CD > distribution, demonstrations, workshops and talks. > Celebrations are planned > for Melbourne, Mumbai, San Francisco and Victoria, > B.C, as well as many more > places. > > Ubuntu is a free, open source, Linux-based operating > system that starts with > a stable operating system and adds regular releases > every six months, a > clear focus on the user and usability, and a > commitment to security updates > with 18 months of support for every release (and > with the most recent Long > Term Support release, you get 3 years on the desktop > and 5 on the server!). > Ubuntu ships with the latest technology release as > well as a selection of > server and desktop software that makes for a > comfortable desktop experience > off a single installation CD. > > The Ubuntu community includes members who identify > with both the free > software and open source camps and many who identify > with both. The > philosophy of free, open source software fits well > with the name Ubuntu, > which is an African concept of ?humanity towards > others.? > > People who are interested in obtaining a free copy > of the Ubuntu operating > system software can speak to the members of Ubuntu > Toronto Software Freedom > Team who will be at the Centre for Social > Innovation, 215 Spadina Ave. Suite > 120 on Saturday, September 16th at 10am-2pm or they > can go to the linuxcaffe > at 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, or online at > www.linuxcaffe.ca. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 21:34:51 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 17:34:51 -0400 Subject: Software Freedom Day! In-Reply-To: <20060914194041.1757.qmail-fjYszm/wOJWB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20060914194041.1757.qmail@web88209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 9/14/06, Colin McGregor wrote: > This was passed on to me by Jane Zhang, and I thought > that it might be of some interest to the members of > the Greater Toronto Linux user group, why I am not > sure :-) ... Yowza ! > > What if anything is happening with the plans for a > Software Freedom day event at Linuxcaffe? As you know, Colin, every day is Software Freedom Day, here at the ol' caffe. But seriously.. I had thought I would be out at whatever the ubuntorontoists had going ! We hadn't planned anything specific, at the caffe, cause i thought the idea was to get out and preach to the unconverted ! Dundas Square, or the Super Centre for Social Intervention.. or whatever. But after the press gets sprayed with invitations to the caffe, I may have to rethink, a bit. > I would not > want to be in a position where I had to choose between > two events at the same time :-( ... heyyy It's international ! you can't be everywhere at once ! By tomorrow we should have a clearer idea where the main festivities will take place. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca/sfd geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 22:55:51 2006 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 18:55:51 -0400 Subject: Clustering and cronjobs In-Reply-To: <20060814153518.GC1367-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20060814153518.GC1367@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20060914225551.GA14976@ettin> I've finished building a cluster using the Redhat Cluster Suite. I've made the report available on my blog site: http://technocrat.watson-wilson.ca/ -- Neil Watson | Gentoo Linux System Administrator | Uptime 5 days http://watson-wilson.ca | 2.6.16.19 AMD Athlon(tm) MP 2000+ x 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 14 23:24:57 2006 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 19:24:57 -0400 Subject: xorg and ATI Mach64 (was Serious OO/Debian problem...) In-Reply-To: <44B6C344.3090109-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <44B65C7B.5010104@alteeve.com> <44B6C344.3090109@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4509E4C9.1060800@interlog.com> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > I run unstable and lost X when the x.org release reached 6.9 because > the ati mach64 drivers weren't recognizing my card any more. I just noticed this message. Which ATI card do you have? I have an ATI All-In-Wonder Pro card which I believe is a Mach64 based card. I had no problems with the card when the switch from XFree86 to xorg happened. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 15 01:25:29 2006 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 21:25:29 -0400 Subject: multi-function B/W laser printer device In-Reply-To: <450ACCF2.2090603-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <45096760.3010408@telly.org> <20060914151509.GF13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <450ACCF2.2090603@golden.net> Message-ID: <450A0109.4020805@sympatico.ca> John Myshrall wrote: > Ditto on Lexmark > > IMHO I find the Samsung products great. > > There 4200 B&W multifunction claims supports Linux. I have a 2010 > Laser and it works great. > > Check > > http://www.samsung.com/ca/products/printer/multifunctionproducts/scx_4200xaa.asp?page=Specifications > > > $129.00 at Future Shop this week. > > John I just got a raincheck for the Samsung 4200, which gives me some time to do a bit of research. It has a USB 2.0 interface, is anyone using it with USB 1.1? If so, does it work well? Thanks, John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 15 03:30:19 2006 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 23:30:19 -0400 Subject: xorg and ATI Mach64 (was Serious OO/Debian problem...) In-Reply-To: <4509E4C9.1060800-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <44B65C7B.5010104@alteeve.com> <44B6C344.3090109@utoronto.ca> <4509E4C9.1060800@interlog.com> Message-ID: <450A1E4B.3060000@utoronto.ca> Kevin Cozens wrote: > Ivan Avery Frey wrote: >> I run unstable and lost X when the x.org release reached 6.9 >> because the ati mach64 drivers weren't recognizing my card any more. > > I just noticed this message. Which ATI card do you have? I have an ATI > All-In-Wonder Pro card which I believe is a Mach64 based card. I had no > problems with the card when the switch from XFree86 to xorg happened. > I'm not sure what Mach64 based card this is anymore. The above message from me is incorrect. Xorg was correctly identifying the card but would run into an unaddressable memory error and crap out with a no usable screens error. Anyhow if you could advise me how I can get xorg 6.8 to tell me what card I have I will gladly forward this information to you. Ivan Avery Frey. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 15 15:32:32 2006 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 11:32:32 -0400 Subject: xorg and ATI Mach64 (was Serious OO/Debian problem...) In-Reply-To: <450A1E4B.3060000-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <44B65C7B.5010104@alteeve.com> <44B6C344.3090109@utoronto.ca> <4509E4C9.1060800@interlog.com> <450A1E4B.3060000@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <450AC790.8070907@interlog.com> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > I'm not sure what Mach64 based card this is anymore. The above message > from me is incorrect. Xorg was correctly identifying the card but would > run into an unaddressable memory error and crap out with a no usable > screens error. > > Anyhow if you could advise me how I can get xorg 6.8 to tell me what > card I have I will gladly forward this information to you. If you don't have the manuals or driver disks for the video card around the only way to know what card you have is to open up the machine, pull the board, and look at it. If you want to know what xorg thinks you have, you need to look at the contents of the xorg.conf file. Look for 'Section "Device"' that has an Identifier line containing the string "Videocard". My machine is running xorg 7.0.0 and the video card information in my xorg.conf file is: Section "Device" Identifier "Videocard0" Driver "ati" VendorName "Videocard vendor" BoardName "ATI All-in-Wonder Pro" VideoRam 7328 EndSection The VideoRam line for my video card would normally be 8192. The need to specify a lower value is part of my setup to allow use of the GATOS TV tuner program. If xorg is telling you "Unaddressable memory" it might be mis-identifying your card or it might think your card has more memory than is actually installed on the card. If it is guessing wrong about how much memory is available you could try using the VideoRam line to tell it how much RAM is on the card. Older video cards didn't have much video memory so you could try values such as 2048 or 4096. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 15 16:55:31 2006 From: lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Yang) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 09:55:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Router for a small network of about 25-30 users Message-ID: <20060915165531.80471.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com> Hello All, I am now considering an new router for a network of 25-30 users (mixed Linux and Windows workstations and a few servers). Currently, the router is an older PC and it connects to a switch and then everyone connected. I wonder whether someone has a good model to recommend. Many thanks, Michael -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 15 18:35:45 2006 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:35:45 -0400 Subject: Linux Equivalent to Norton Ghost? Message-ID: <450AF281.9020701@rogers.com> Is there? Or can I run this on my XP machine and ghost Linux formatted drives on there? Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 15 18:40:13 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:40:13 -0400 Subject: Linux Equivalent to Norton Ghost? In-Reply-To: <450AF281.9020701-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <450AF281.9020701@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 9/15/06, Stephen wrote: > Is there? > > Or can I run this on my XP machine and ghost Linux formatted drives on > there? how about a combination of the gparted live CD (for all your partioning and formatting needs) and "dd" ? djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca/sfd geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 15 19:56:02 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 15:56:02 -0400 Subject: Linux Equivalent to Norton Ghost? In-Reply-To: <450AF281.9020701-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <450AF281.9020701@rogers.com> Message-ID: <450B0552.1020201@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > Is there? > > Or can I run this on my XP machine and ghost Linux formatted drives on > there? http://www.partimage.org/Main_Page -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 15 20:50:37 2006 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:50:37 -0400 Subject: Linux Equivalent to Norton Ghost? In-Reply-To: References: <450AF281.9020701@rogers.com> Message-ID: <450B121D.7050409@rogers.com> David J Patrick wrote: > On 9/15/06, Stephen wrote: >> Is there? >> >> Or can I run this on my XP machine and ghost Linux formatted drives on >> there? > > how about a combination of the gparted live CD (for all your > partioning and formatting needs) and "dd" ? These don't seem to do what I need. I need to make a replacement boot drive. I want to avoid reinstalling everything, just copy it Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 16 00:09:32 2006 From: mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Marcel Gagne) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 20:09:32 -0400 Subject: Linux Equivalent to Norton Ghost? In-Reply-To: <450AF281.9020701-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <450AF281.9020701@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200609152009.34163.mggagne@salmar.com> Hello Stephen, On Friday 15 September 2006 14:35, Stephen wrote: > Is there? Well, there is the ever popular (or, judging from the response, only so popular) Ghost 4 Unix, or g4u. You'll find it at http://www.feyrer.de/g4u/ and it should do what you need. I've used it myself, a few years ago, and had good results. The package keeps getting updated so that's a good sign. James Knott also suggested http://www.partimage.org/Main_Page (Partimage). I haven't personally tried this one but I've heard good things from at least one person who has. Good luck, and take care out there. -- Marcel (Writer and Free Thinker at Large) Gagn? Note: This massagee wos nat speel or gramer-checkered. Mandatory home page reference - http://www.marcelgagne.com/ Author of "Moving to Ubuntu" : Now Available! "Moving to Linux : Kiss the Blue Screen of Death Goodbye!" (1st and 2nd eds) ? "Moving to the Linux Business Desktop" ? "Linux System Administration, A User's Guide" Join the WFTL-LUG : http://www.marcelgagne.com/wftllugform.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 16 06:35:45 2006 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 02:35:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ioctl question(s) In-Reply-To: <4505FDF9.9060805-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4505FDF9.9060805@alteeve.com> Message-ID: | From: Madison Kelly | I have been trying to find ways of identifying partitions and I have | *finally* found that it *is* possible to read the hard drive serial number of | a drive behind a USB/IDE adapter. The 'scsiinfo -a /dev/sda' call returns it, | though slightly mangled (ie: real s/n is "abcdefgh" but is shown as | "badcfehg"). Regardless, I now know it _is_ possible! This is byteswapped. Could be a bug or a feature. Perhaps worth investigating -- if it is a bug, it would be good to report it. I seem to recall that the SCSI standard is big-endian. The x86 is little-endian. This might be a sufficient explanation. Compare and contrast the output of hdparm -i and hdparm -I. Read the hdparm manual on this point. | So I've been doing more research and I keep seeing references to the 'ioctl' | call, but I know very little (though at least some) C. $ man 2 ioctl It is a system call and is documented where system calls should be documented. Having said that, there are a great many different ioctls, distinguished by the second parameter. Each driver may well define its own ioctls, or implement some conventional ones that similar drivers implement. The first argument influences the interpretation of the second argument. So hunting down the documentation for the specific ioctl isn't easy. Furthermore, Linux driver folks don't always take the obligation to document seriously. | For example, I have | read that 'hdparm' finds an IDE disk's serial number by calling "ioctl 0x30d". | Of course I am not sure how to do this or how to use 'strace' on 'scsiinfo' to | figure out where/what it is calling when it gets the serial number off the | disk behind the USB/IDE adapter (probably a scsi call?). strace is a good spelunking tool for sure. Consider moving on to the source if you want to see how to code that call. Pay particular attention to the #include statements | So then, given the many dire warnings I have read about messing with ioctl, | I was hoping someone here could give me a hand with some sample code (I am not | trying to be lazy, just cautious!). See above: Linux is all sample code. | How could I, for example, call "getsn /dev/hda" and have it return what is | returned when "ioctl 0x30d" is called? I am looking only for the most simple, | basic working code that I can build on. | | In the meantime I am going to try to learn 'strace' enough to see how | 'scsiinfo' gets the HDD's serial number! :) You might consider just scripting invocations of these various utilities. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 16 21:52:10 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 17:52:10 -0400 Subject: Linux Equivalent to Norton Ghost? In-Reply-To: <450B121D.7050409-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <450AF281.9020701@rogers.com> <450B121D.7050409@rogers.com> Message-ID: If the two drives are the same size and you want to copy one onto the other, the dd command is exactly what you would want. Even if they're not the same size, dd is still a good option, you would just have to do some partition resizing as well. If you have a liveCD, and both drives are connected, the syntax would be # dd if=/dev/olddrive of=/dev/newdrive For example: # dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/sda You can also do # dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/dev/sda1 but then you have to worry about the partitions being the right size, and the size of the filesystems you're copying as well. Definitely dd is what you want though, I myself have cloned an 80GB drive to a second one before replacing the first one in my laptop. If you clone them in this way, the second drive can be physically swapped in for the first. On 9/15/06, Stephen wrote: > These don't seem to do what I need. > > I need to make a replacement boot drive. I want to avoid reinstalling > everything, just copy it -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 17 01:34:48 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 21:34:48 -0400 Subject: [OT] Diggers digg Atomic OS Message-ID: <99a6c38f0609161834n17368778w41110f7a6af5f147@mail.gmail.com> An unexpected update on Atomic OS. It apparently hit digg a couple times. http://digg.com/software/AtomicOS_Another_AjaxOS http://digg.com/programming/AtomicOS_Another_AjaxOS_2 If you're a digger, the project would certainly appreciate your attention and support. =) -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 17 15:03:14 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 11:03:14 -0400 Subject: Cold War game on linux .... mouse/Joystick? In-Reply-To: <1158099225.4597.189.camel-Wos4hdNTH4j6K7/ahGyk6A@public.gmane.org> References: <1158099225.4597.189.camel@stan64.site> Message-ID: This is kind of OT, but aiming with a mouse is definitely easier than aiming with a joystick. I'd try to answer your question, but I don't know. Probably you'd want to look into configuring an extra input device in your xorg.conf that uses the stick, but I don't know if that would work. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmortondc-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 17 19:19:24 2006 From: dmortondc-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (dave morton) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 15:19:24 -0400 Subject: Linux Equivalent to Norton Ghost? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: i use g4u, it writes the disk sector by sector to any ftp site another (sligtly more complicated) project is clonezilla dave >From: "David J Patrick" >Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux Equivalent to Norton Ghost? >Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:40:13 -0400 > >On 9/15/06, Stephen wrote: >>Is there? >> >>Or can I run this on my XP machine and ghost Linux formatted drives on >>there? > >how about a combination of the gparted live CD (for all your >partioning and formatting needs) and "dd" ? >djp > >-- >djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org >www.linuxcaffe.ca/sfd >geek chic and caffe cachet >326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists _________________________________________________________________ Don??t waste time standing in line??try shopping online. Visit Sympatico / MSN Shopping today! http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 18 01:36:32 2006 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 21:36:32 -0400 Subject: OLPC News (2006-09-02) Message-ID: Here's a two-week old status report I came across. http://laptop.media.mit.edu/laptopnews.nsf/2e76a5a80bc36cbf85256cd700545fa5/b4c092e4f40cbe64852571dd00575a6b?OpenDocument It seems to me that OLPC is a bit of an open-source tour de force - one of the later status reports talks about an open-source SD Card implementation. So it seems that a biggish amount of money can really grease the wheels. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 18 01:52:04 2006 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 21:52:04 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? [FOLLOW-UP] In-Reply-To: <20060901182507.GA14265-bIfI8A3ED0pQNIHP08TOaLz7B6FnHHLR9KrOEb1XlYA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060918015204.GA6674@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 02:25:07PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > I'm thinking of getting a new machine -- so I'm interested in any > Linux war stories, good or bad, with the following hardware: > > AMD Athlon 64 X2 (dual core) > Asus M2V Socket AM2 (Via K8T890) motherboard > Asus EN7300GS GeForce 7300GS video card > > I expect to run Gentoo, to get the full 64-bit environment for the > Athlon, and because I have to do something with the spare processor > cycles ;-) A few weeks ago I posted the above message, and got many helpful replies. I thought I'd follow up with a brief report on the hardware. The motherboard has been a real struggle, so far. It uses two rather new and unusual components: a Via 8237A SouthBridge (note the "A"), which includes the SATA controller, and an Attasic gigabit ethernet chipset. There seems to be a patch in the very latest kernels for the SouthBridge (2.6.17.11+) but I could only find one distro that had a bleeding-edge installation disk that worked: the Knot 2 release of Edgy Eft, for (K)Ubuntu. So that's what I installed, despite the fact that I'm a command-line addict. This machine is so fast even KDE runs at a reasonable speed! ;-) Incidentally, if anyone knows how I could (or could have) installed gentoo on this thing, given that the 2006.1 release does not support the SATA controller, I'd be interested to know. The only things I could think of were to install a straight IDE disk, install to that, and then upgrade to a kernel that could see the SATA disks -- or, if I had but world enough and time, to roll my own "LiveCD". Neither option was very appealing, so I took the third way out: Wait, and it'll be supported by 2007.1. The onboard ethernet is doing me no good. I dropped in an old PCI ethernet card I had, to get connectivity while I find out whether there is anything to do about it. I read in a post somewhere how to recompile the source code provided by ASUS, but, of course, I've lost the link. Oh well. I'm surprised by the problems with the motherboard: I thought ASUS was well-supported, and, after all, nobody mentioned the off-brand chipset. That's what I get for not buying new computers more regularly! The video card works well. I can't figure out how to get the framebuffer working properly to get a decent console resolution, but that's likely just my unfamiliarity with (K)Ubuntu. It's close enough to Debian so it isn't so hard to pick up. I would like to get all the eye-candy out of the way, though. (K)Ubuntu automagically sets up a separate group of 32-bit libraries for folks to run OpenOffice (installed by default) or Firefox (available if you want it). The integration is seamless. Thanks to one and all who offered advice and suggestions! -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A2 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 17 23:21:00 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 00:21:00 +0100 Subject: Hardware experiences? [FOLLOW-UP] In-Reply-To: <20060918015204.GA6674-bIfI8A3ED0pQNIHP08TOaLz7B6FnHHLR9KrOEb1XlYA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060918015204.GA6674@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <450DD85C.2040705@utoronto.ca> Peter King wrote: > The motherboard has been a real struggle, so far. It uses two rather new > and unusual components: a Via 8237A SouthBridge (note the "A"), which > includes the SATA controller, and an Attasic gigabit ethernet chipset. > There seems to be a patch in the very latest kernels for the SouthBridge > (2.6.17.11+) but I could only find one distro that had a bleeding-edge > installation disk that worked: the Knot 2 release of Edgy Eft, for > (K)Ubuntu. So that's what I installed, despite the fact that I'm a > command-line addict. This machine is so fast even KDE runs at a > reasonable speed! ;-) That's frustrating. Did you use the alternate cd or gui to install then ;) > Incidentally, if anyone knows how I could (or could have) installed > gentoo on this thing, given that the 2006.1 release does not support > the SATA controller, I'd be interested to know. The only things I could > think of were to install a straight IDE disk, install to that, and then > upgrade to a kernel that could see the SATA disks -- or, if I had but > world enough and time, to roll my own "LiveCD". Neither option was very > appealing, so I took the third way out: Wait, and it'll be supported by > 2007.1. I'd have used that Edgy livecd (I assume that's what you used) to install gentoo through the normal chroot process, downloading and compiling the necessary patches to the 2.6.17 kernel into your chroot. > The onboard ethernet is doing me no good. I dropped in an old PCI > ethernet card I had, to get connectivity while I find out whether there > is anything to do about it. I read in a post somewhere how to recompile > the source code provided by ASUS, but, of course, I've lost the link. Oh > well. Cool that they're doing drivers for their stuff now. Too bad you can't get it to work though. The readme has this bit, you made it this far I assume? >4. Compile the driver module: > > make install > > The binary will be installed as: > > /lib/modules//kernel/drivers/net/atl1.[k]o http://dlsvr01.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/socketAM2/M2V/Linux_LAN.zip > I'm surprised by the problems with the motherboard: I thought ASUS was > well-supported, and, after all, nobody mentioned the off-brand chipset. > That's what I get for not buying new computers more regularly! Apart from the SATA issue, it seems like they are really trying, what with the LAN driver that supposedly works. Perhaps a few more weeks? > The video card works well. I can't figure out how to get the framebuffer > working properly to get a decent console resolution, but that's likely > just my unfamiliarity with (K)Ubuntu. It's close enough to Debian so it > isn't so hard to pick up. I would like to get all the eye-candy out of > the way, though. > > (K)Ubuntu automagically sets up a separate group of 32-bit libraries for > folks to run OpenOffice (installed by default) or Firefox (available if > you want it). The integration is seamless. Openoffice in Edgy is now a full 64bit package if I am not mistaken. They claim that edgy+1 should have full multiarch support once debian Etch goes stable. There is a beta tool called nspluginwrapper that allows 32bit extensions to 64 bit firefox: http://www.gibix.net/dokuwiki/en:projects:nspluginwrapper They claim ("reasonable") support for the following: Acrobat Reader (5.0.9 and 7.0.1) DejaVu Libre (3.5.14) Flash Player (7.0) Linux JPEG 2000 (0.0.2) Mplayerplug-in (2.80) Real Player (10.0.5) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 18 01:06:08 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 03:06:08 +0200 Subject: hwinfo Message-ID: Found this interesting program called "hwinfo" I am trying Ubuntu, so I am apt-get install'ing everything that looks interesting. This is the short summary..the standard hwinfo report goes on for like 25 pages! Run it once..keep the report on the drive somewhere.. root at ubs01:/usr/share# hwinfo --short cpu: Pentium III (Coppermine), 697 MHz keyboard: /dev/input/event0 AT Translated Set 2 keyboard monitor: Generic Monitor graphics card: Compaq 82810E CGC [Chipset Graphics Controller] sound: Compaq 82801AA AC'97 Audio storage: Intel 82801AA IDE network: eth0 Intel 82559 Fast Ethernet LOM with Basic Alert on LAN* network interface: eth0 Ethernet network interface lo Loopback network interface sit0 Network Interface disk: /dev/disk/by-id/ata-WDC_AC26400R_WD-WM6273248081 WDC AC26400R partition: /dev/disk/by-id/ata-WDC_AC26400R_WD-WM6273248081-part1 Partition /dev/disk/by-id/ata-WDC_AC26400R_WD-WM6273248081-part2 Partition /dev/disk/by-id/ata-WDC_AC26400R_WD-WM6273248081-part5 Partition usb controller: Intel 82801AA USB bios: BIOS bridge: Intel 82810E DC-133 GMCH [Graphics Memory Controller Hub] Intel 82801AA PCI Bridge Intel 82801AA ISA Bridge (LPC) hub: Linux 2.6.15-23-server uhci_hcd UHCI Host Controller memory: Main Memory unknown: FPU DMA controller PIC Timer RTC Keyboard controller -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 18 15:29:17 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 11:29:17 -0400 Subject: multi-function B/W laser printer device In-Reply-To: <450A0109.4020805-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <45096760.3010408@telly.org> <20060914151509.GF13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <450ACCF2.2090603@golden.net> <450A0109.4020805@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20060918152917.GI13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 14, 2006 at 09:25:29PM -0400, John Moniz wrote: > I just got a raincheck for the Samsung 4200, which gives me some time to > do a bit of research. It has a USB 2.0 interface, is anyone using it > with USB 1.1? If so, does it work well? It would be a _lot_ slower. Printing might not be too horribly slow, but scanning on USB 1 is really not fun at all. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 18 15:31:15 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 11:31:15 -0400 Subject: Router for a small network of about 25-30 users In-Reply-To: <20060915165531.80471.qmail-fizLuMQkVWqA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20060915165531.80471.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060918153115.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 15, 2006 at 09:55:31AM -0700, Michael Yang wrote: > I am now considering an new router for a network of 25-30 users (mixed Linux and Windows workstations and a few servers). Currently, the router is an older PC and it connects to a switch and then everyone connected. I wonder whether someone has a good model to recommend. Unless it is a _very_ old PC, I would say you have a good router already. Unless you plan to buy an expensive router, such as one of the Cisoco or similar class, then a PC would do at least as well. Home router junk boxes are no match for any reasonable PC, unless you just want something with a simple web interface, but no real ability to add new features. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 18 09:49:01 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 11:49:01 +0200 Subject: Router for a small network of about 25-30 users In-Reply-To: <20060918153115.GJ13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060915165531.80471.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com> <20060918153115.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I think if you went with SmoothWall or IPCOP, you would do just fine. And if you really had to choose, I would select IPCOP over SmoothWall. you could get a linksys, and get it up and running faster, but you would have a lot finer control over your firewall with a firewall distro. besides, getting a real ipsec-vpn (not a Microsoft L2 VPN) running between ipcop setups is fun and educational (use TauVPN client ) Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Sep 15, 2006 at 09:55:31AM -0700, Michael Yang wrote: > >> I am now considering an new router for a network of 25-30 users (mixed Linux and Windows workstations and a few servers). Currently, the router is an older PC and it connects to a switch and then everyone connected. I wonder whether someone has a good model to recommend. >> > > Unless it is a _very_ old PC, I would say you have a good router already. > Unless you plan to buy an expensive router, such as one of the Cisoco > or similar class, then a PC would do at least as well. Home router junk > boxes are no match for any reasonable PC, unless you just want something > with a simple web interface, but no real ability to add new features. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 18 16:22:04 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 12:22:04 -0400 Subject: Hardware experiences? [FOLLOW-UP] In-Reply-To: <20060918015204.GA6674-bIfI8A3ED0pQNIHP08TOaLz7B6FnHHLR9KrOEb1XlYA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060901182507.GA14265@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> <20060918015204.GA6674@grad11.philosophy.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20060918162204.GK13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Sep 17, 2006 at 09:52:04PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > A few weeks ago I posted the above message, and got many helpful > replies. I thought I'd follow up with a brief report on the hardware. > > The motherboard has been a real struggle, so far. It uses two rather new > and unusual components: a Via 8237A SouthBridge (note the "A"), which > includes the SATA controller, and an Attasic gigabit ethernet chipset. > There seems to be a patch in the very latest kernels for the SouthBridge > (2.6.17.11+) but I could only find one distro that had a bleeding-edge > installation disk that worked: the Knot 2 release of Edgy Eft, for > (K)Ubuntu. So that's what I installed, despite the fact that I'm a > command-line addict. This machine is so fast even KDE runs at a > reasonable speed! ;-) > > Incidentally, if anyone knows how I could (or could have) installed > gentoo on this thing, given that the 2006.1 release does not support > the SATA controller, I'd be interested to know. The only things I could > think of were to install a straight IDE disk, install to that, and then > upgrade to a kernel that could see the SATA disks -- or, if I had but > world enough and time, to roll my own "LiveCD". Neither option was very > appealing, so I took the third way out: Wait, and it'll be supported by > 2007.1. > > The onboard ethernet is doing me no good. I dropped in an old PCI > ethernet card I had, to get connectivity while I find out whether there > is anything to do about it. I read in a post somewhere how to recompile > the source code provided by ASUS, but, of course, I've lost the link. Oh > well. > > I'm surprised by the problems with the motherboard: I thought ASUS was > well-supported, and, after all, nobody mentioned the off-brand chipset. > That's what I get for not buying new computers more regularly! I did mention nvidia chipsets were much more likely to work. Via often works, but not always. I am sure it will be supported eventually (as in within a few months at the longest) by a new kernel. In fact it appears it is in 2.6.18-rc4 and newer, so it will be included in 2.6.18 by the looks of it. As soon as that is released, and your distribution updates their installer to use it, you will be all set. Nvidia boards have at least the nvidia ethernet port, which in my experience just works (although it used to be only 100mbit, I think it now has gigabit too). Most asus boards I have used lately have a marvell yukon chip for gigabit, which should work with skge/sk98lin driver. The attastic they seem to be using on cheaper boards on the other hand, required patching the kernel source last I checked (I don't own any boards with that chip, so I haven't followed it very much). > The video card works well. I can't figure out how to get the framebuffer > working properly to get a decent console resolution, but that's likely > just my unfamiliarity with (K)Ubuntu. It's close enough to Debian so it > isn't so hard to pick up. I would like to get all the eye-candy out of > the way, though. > > (K)Ubuntu automagically sets up a separate group of 32-bit libraries for > folks to run OpenOffice (installed by default) or Firefox (available if > you want it). The integration is seamless. > > Thanks to one and all who offered advice and suggestions! -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 18 16:45:16 2006 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 12:45:16 -0400 Subject: hwinfo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 9/17/06, Teddy David Mills wrote: > > Found this interesting program called "hwinfo" Which package provides hwinfo? I'm running xubuntu 6 Cheers, Randy -- Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world --John Lennon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 18 17:15:32 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 13:15:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hwinfo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Sep 2006, Randy Jonasz wrote: > On 9/17/06, Teddy David Mills wrote: >> >> Found this interesting program called "hwinfo" > > Which package provides hwinfo? I'm running xubuntu 6 Hi Randy. The package is actually called "hwinfo" :) $sudo aptitude search hwinfo p hwinfo - Hardware identification system Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 18 17:20:57 2006 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 13:20:57 -0400 Subject: Router for a small network of about 25-30 users In-Reply-To: <450E6B8D.3010100-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <20060915165531.80471.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com> <20060918153115.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <450E6B8D.3010100@knet.ca> Message-ID: <20060918172057.GA27206@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> >>>On Fri, Sep 15, 2006 at 09:55:31AM -0700, Michael Yang wrote: >>> >>>I am now considering an new router for a network of 25-30 users (mixed >>>Linux and Windows workstations and a few servers). Currently, the router >>>is an older PC and it connects to a switch and then everyone connected. I >>>wonder whether someone has a good model to recommend. On Mon, Sep 18, 2006 at 11:49:01AM +0200, Teddy David Mills wrote: > >I think if you went with SmoothWall or IPCOP, you would do just fine. >And if you really had to choose, I would select IPCOP over SmoothWall. > >you could get a linksys, and get it up and running faster, but you would >have a lot finer control >over your firewall with a firewall distro. besides, getting a real >ipsec-vpn (not a Microsoft L2 VPN) >running between ipcop setups is fun and educational (use TauVPN client ) Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> >>Unless it is a _very_ old PC, I would say you have a good router already. >>Unless you plan to buy an expensive router, such as one of the Cisoco >>or similar class, then a PC would do at least as well. Home router junk >>boxes are no match for any reasonable PC, unless you just want something >>with a simple web interface, but no real ability to add new features. The one advantage that you may find with a commodity switch is that it will likely use less power and make less noise than a PC. Reduced power use is nothing to sneeze at. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 18 18:06:15 2006 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:06:15 -0400 Subject: hwinfo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 9/18/06, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 18 Sep 2006, Randy Jonasz wrote: > > > On 9/17/06, Teddy David Mills wrote: > >> > >> Found this interesting program called "hwinfo" > > > > Which package provides hwinfo? I'm running xubuntu 6 > > Hi Randy. The package is actually called "hwinfo" :) hehe, I didn't have all the sources activated so I wasn't seeing it. doh! > > $sudo aptitude search hwinfo > p hwinfo - Hardware identification system > > Cheers, > > Rob > > -- > Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 > Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 > OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org > Web: www.opentrend.net > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world --John Lennon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 18 18:49:39 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:49:39 -0400 Subject: Router for a small network of about 25-30 users In-Reply-To: <20060918172057.GA27206-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20060915165531.80471.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com> <20060918153115.GJ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <450E6B8D.3010100@knet.ca> <20060918172057.GA27206@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20060918184939.GL13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 18, 2006 at 01:20:57PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > The one advantage that you may find with a commodity switch is that it > will likely use less power and make less noise than a PC. Reduced power > use is nothing to sneeze at. True I guess. On the other hand some routers like say a Cisco Pix 506, would appear to use a lot more power, if the heat it generates is anything to go by. :) Sometimes small routers don't use small amounts of power. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 18 19:18:46 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:18:46 +0000 Subject: Ohio LinuxFest Message-ID: Blowing my horn a bit, I'll be speaking at the upcoming Ohio LinuxFest in about two weeks: -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 18 19:50:21 2006 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 15:50:21 -0400 Subject: PegaSoft - Introduction to SQL Message-ID: <1158609021.5521.12.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> The next PegaSoft meeting will be Tuesday, September 19, 2006 at 7:00 pm at the Linux Caffe, one block south of the Christie subway stop. (We will be sharing the cafe with PyGTA, so hopefully they behave themselves.) Topic: Introduction to SQL. Please RSVP if you will be attending so I can present David Patrick with an accurate head count. KB -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 18 22:36:08 2006 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:36:08 -0400 Subject: multi-function B/W laser printer device In-Reply-To: <20060918152917.GI13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <45096760.3010408@telly.org> <20060914151509.GF13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <450ACCF2.2090603@golden.net> <450A0109.4020805@sympatico.ca> <20060918152917.GI13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <450F1F58.40708@sympatico.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Thu, Sep 14, 2006 at 09:25:29PM -0400, John Moniz wrote: > > >>I just got a raincheck for the Samsung 4200, which gives me some time to >>do a bit of research. It has a USB 2.0 interface, is anyone using it >>with USB 1.1? If so, does it work well? >> >> > >It would be a _lot_ slower. Printing might not be too horribly slow, >but scanning on USB 1 is really not fun at all. > >-- >Len Sorensen >-- > Thanks Lennart, that's good to know. I'll either have to get myself a USB 2 card for this PC or wait 'till I get a better PC. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-s7S4Dk53uTw at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 18 22:51:54 2006 From: paul-s7S4Dk53uTw at public.gmane.org (Paul van Fraassen) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:51:54 -0400 Subject: Linux Equivalent to Norton Ghost? In-Reply-To: <450AF281.9020701-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <450AF281.9020701@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49833ce40609181551k3a752ff6r52fe3366cdfdd7b7@mail.gmail.com> The replies re: dd and g4u etc all look good to me but, I thought I'd throw one more option into the mix because friend of mine pointed me to "mondo" and http://ccp14.minerals.csiro.au/ccp/web-mirrors/mondorescue/index.html . I haven't tried it yet so, if anyone else haves speak up. -pvf On 9/15/06, Stephen wrote: > > Is there? > > Or can I run this on my XP machine and ghost Linux formatted drives on > there? > > Thanks > Stephen > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 18 22:55:25 2006 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:55:25 -0400 Subject: Ohio LinuxFest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <61e9e2b10609181555r30e76352y8b8981a247d273c6@mail.gmail.com> On 9/18/06, Christopher Browne wrote: > Blowing my horn a bit, I'll be speaking at the upcoming Ohio LinuxFest > in about two weeks: > > > -- Good stuff! Ohio Linuxfest sounds like a fun affair... I have never been... maybe I will make it out there next year. -- Daniel Wayne Armstrong :: build it yourself biology http://biohackery.com :: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 18 23:31:27 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:31:27 -0400 Subject: Ohio LinuxFest In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10609181555r30e76352y8b8981a247d273c6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10609181555r30e76352y8b8981a247d273c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1158622287.5308.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-09-18 at 18:55 -0400, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > > > > -- > > Good stuff! Ohio Linuxfest sounds like a fun affair... I have never > been... maybe I will make it out there next year. Richard Weait convinced me two years ago and I've been ever since. The speakers are often key developers in the projects that they are presenting. There are so many good talks that it's often a tough choice between tracks. It's worth the 7 hour drive to Columbus. It's a nice city that has a great university district. I also make a point of stopping at the famous Tony Packo's http://www.tonypackos.com/ along the way. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 19 00:31:43 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 00:31:43 +0000 Subject: Despair-Like Posters for Linux Message-ID: http://www.arouse.net/despair-linux/ has a wonderful list of posters joking about the relative merits of different Linux distributions... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 19 02:22:06 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 22:22:06 -0400 Subject: Ohio LinuxFest In-Reply-To: <61e9e2b10609181555r30e76352y8b8981a247d273c6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10609181555r30e76352y8b8981a247d273c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 9/18/06, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > On 9/18/06, Christopher Browne wrote: > > Blowing my horn a bit, I'll be speaking at the upcoming Ohio LinuxFest > > in about two weeks: they got linux in Ohio, now ? I'll be durned ! -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca/sfd geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 19 02:25:25 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 22:25:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ohio LinuxFest In-Reply-To: References: <61e9e2b10609181555r30e76352y8b8981a247d273c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <51020.207.188.88.64.1158632725.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > On 9/18/06, Daniel Armstrong wrote: >> On 9/18/06, Christopher Browne wrote: >> > Blowing my horn a bit, I'll be speaking at the upcoming Ohio LinuxFest >> > in about two weeks: > > they got linux in Ohio, now ? > I'll be durned ! > Linux and voter fraud. (See the article in Rolling Stone.) -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 19 03:36:09 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 23:36:09 -0400 Subject: Ohio LinuxFest In-Reply-To: <1158622287.5308.8.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10609181555r30e76352y8b8981a247d273c6@mail.gmail.com> <1158622287.5308.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0609182036o4057a363h554f774f60a35f5b@mail.gmail.com> On 9/18/06, John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Mon, 2006-09-18 at 18:55 -0400, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > > > > > > -- > > > > Good stuff! Ohio Linuxfest sounds like a fun affair... I have never > > been... maybe I will make it out there next year. > > Richard Weait convinced me two years ago and I've been ever since. The > speakers are often key developers in the projects that they are > presenting. There are so many good talks that it's often a tough choice > between tracks. > > It's worth the 7 hour drive to Columbus. It's a nice city that has a > great university district. If you're headed out there this year, will you be blogging your take on Chris's talk and on the LinuxFest in general? I know I'd certainly be interested. -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 19 12:57:51 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 08:57:51 -0400 Subject: Ohio LinuxFest In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0609182036o4057a363h554f774f60a35f5b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10609181555r30e76352y8b8981a247d273c6@mail.gmail.com> <1158622287.5308.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <99a6c38f0609182036o4057a363h554f774f60a35f5b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1158670671.24238.49.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Mon, 2006-09-18 at 23:36 -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > If you're headed out there this year, will you be blogging your take > on Chris's talk and on the LinuxFest in general? I know I'd certainly > be interested. That would mean starting a blog to begin with. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 19 14:22:32 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:22:32 -0400 Subject: Ohio LinuxFest In-Reply-To: <1158670671.24238.49.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10609181555r30e76352y8b8981a247d273c6@mail.gmail.com> <1158622287.5308.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <99a6c38f0609182036o4057a363h554f774f60a35f5b@mail.gmail.com> <1158670671.24238.49.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Mon, 2006-09-18 at 23:36 -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> If you're headed out there this year, will you be blogging your take >> on Chris's talk and on the LinuxFest in general? I know I'd certainly >> be interested. > > That would mean starting a blog to begin with. http://www.cmsmatrix.org/matrix/cms-matrix?func=viewRatingDetails For all your CMS choosing needs (go drupal!). Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 19 15:16:37 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:16:37 -0400 Subject: multi-function B/W laser printer device In-Reply-To: <450F1F58.40708-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <45096760.3010408@telly.org> <20060914151509.GF13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <450ACCF2.2090603@golden.net> <450A0109.4020805@sympatico.ca> <20060918152917.GI13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <450F1F58.40708@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20060919151637.GM13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 18, 2006 at 06:36:08PM -0400, John Moniz wrote: > Thanks Lennart, that's good to know. I'll either have to get myself a > USB 2 card for this PC or wait 'till I get a better PC. You can get a USB2 card for less than $20. Hardly a problem. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 19 17:15:00 2006 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 13:15:00 -0400 Subject: PegaSoft - rescheduled to Thursday Message-ID: <1158686100.12307.6.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> The meeting has been postponed to Thursday night. The next PegaSoft meeting will be Thursday, September 21, 2006 at 7:00 pm at the Linux Caffe, one block south of the Christie subway stop. Demonstration: Unison file synchronization software Presentation Topic: Introduction to SQL. Please RSVP if you will be attending so I can present David Patrick with an accurate head count. KB -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 19 18:08:00 2006 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kihara Muriithi) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:08:00 +0300 Subject: https problems when behind a proxy Message-ID: Hallo all, I have come across this problem a couple of time. When I set a laptop running Redhat behind a proxy (Window ISA in one case and Webmarshall on the other), I can not visit any site that use https. The problem manifest itself with the browser taking really long to pull anything and finally throwing an error the address could not be found. However, if I log on a Window box behind the same proxy, everything seems to work smoothly. I am very sure the problem is not related to any configuration on my Linux installation as a clean install on another box ended in the same error. Would somebody by any chance have come accross this problem? What is the best way to figure out the route of the problem? Please assist. William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul-trWFDORQd8hBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 19 20:01:28 2006 From: paul-trWFDORQd8hBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Paul Osman) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 16:01:28 -0400 Subject: https problems when behind a proxy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 19-Sep-06, at 2:08 PM, Kihara Muriithi wrote: > Hallo all, > I have come across this problem a couple of time. When I set a > laptop running Redhat behind a proxy (Window ISA in one case and > Webmarshall on the other), I can not visit any site that use https. > The problem manifest itself with the browser taking really long to > pull anything and finally throwing an error the address could not > be found. However, if I log on a Window box behind the same proxy, > everything seems to work smoothly. I am very sure the problem is > not related to any configuration on my Linux installation as a > clean install on another box ended in the same error. > Would somebody by any chance have come accross this problem? What > is the best way to figure out the route of the problem? > Please assist. > > William It's probably to do with your browser's proxy settings. I think most browsers allow you to enter different proxy servers for HTTP and SSL. Make sure the settings are correct for both. Cheers, Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 19 22:01:36 2006 From: caitken-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:01:36 -0400 Subject: filter unwanted domains? In-Reply-To: <4501E20C.6040606-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4501CB07.7000503@vianet.ca> <4501CFBE.5070803@yahoo.ca> <4501E20C.6040606@vianet.ca> Message-ID: <451068C0.9040108@vianet.ca> Chris Aitken wrote: > Stephen Allen wrote: > > > >> You're probably thinking of Challenge Response, > > That name, as a descriptor, certainly fits what I've seen. > >> which is in my opinion >> and that of others as a flawed model for combating SPAM/UCE. >> >> Why not just grab a GMail account Chris ? They do all the spam filtering >> for you, and it's pretty good. > Just to close this out - the filtering that comes with Thunderbird is adequate for my needs. Thanks, everyone for your help. Chris >> >> > Well, I already have two domains registered with EasyDNS and they give > me email forwarding which I use to send [whatever]@chrisaitken.net and > [whatever]@shinypinemusic.com to my ISP account, caitken-Bm8TULXj0r+VS+Kkd+ZcAg at public.gmane.org > So, if I'm already dealing with these two companies shouldn't I just > give them more money for whatever anti-spam solution they offer? [I'm > assuming, of course, that gmail is another option I would have to pay > for anyway...] > > Chris > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 20 02:03:54 2006 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 22:03:54 -0400 Subject: MySQL Grant problem Message-ID: <4510A18A.7030307@rogers.com> Environment Ubuntu latest update, MySQL 5.0.22, client Windows XP running MySQL Query Browser I granted user account root on '%' with grant privileges via command line on server. I connect from XP using MySQL Query Browser with the root account and do: I create database sor then grant all privileges on sor.* to 'sor'@'localhost' identified by 'password'; Then I select * from mysql.user; and see that user sor is created, but every permission field is N What is going on? Why does user 'sor' not have any privileges? Thanks in advance. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 20 02:12:26 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 22:12:26 -0400 Subject: MySQL Grant problem In-Reply-To: <4510A18A.7030307-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4510A18A.7030307@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1158718346.6786.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-09-19 at 22:03 -0400, Stephen wrote: > Environment > > Ubuntu latest update, MySQL 5.0.22, client Windows XP running MySQL > Query Browser > > I granted user account root on '%' with grant privileges via command > line on server. > > I connect from XP using MySQL Query Browser with the root account and do: > > I create database sor > > then > > grant all privileges on sor.* to 'sor'@'localhost' identified by 'password'; > > Then I > > select * from mysql.user; > > and see that user sor is created, but every permission field is N > > What is going on? Why does user 'sor' not have any privileges? Try SELECT * FROM mysql.db You'll see the permissions there. You want to do a: FLUSH PRIVILEGES to force mysql to re-read the tables. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 20 12:22:17 2006 From: lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org (Oliver Meyn) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 08:22:17 -0400 Subject: MySQL Grant problem In-Reply-To: <4510A18A.7030307-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4510A18A.7030307@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45113279.40406@mineallmeyn.com> Stephen wrote: > > I connect from XP using MySQL Query Browser with the root account and do: > > grant all privileges on sor.* to 'sor'@'localhost' identified by > 'password'; > Wouldn't you want to grant sor.* to 'sor'@'ip_of_xpmachine' ? Oliver -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 20 16:42:05 2006 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:42:05 -0400 Subject: MySQL Grant problem In-Reply-To: <1158718346.6786.8.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <4510A18A.7030307@rogers.com> <1158718346.6786.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45116F5D.6010904@rogers.com> John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Tue, 2006-09-19 at 22:03 -0400, Stephen wrote: > >> Environment >> >> Ubuntu latest update, MySQL 5.0.22, client Windows XP running MySQL >> Query Browser >> >> I granted user account root on '%' with grant privileges via command >> line on server. >> >> I connect from XP using MySQL Query Browser with the root account and do: >> >> I create database sor >> >> then >> >> grant all privileges on sor.* to 'sor'@'localhost' identified by 'password'; >> >> Then I >> >> select * from mysql.user; >> >> and see that user sor is created, but every permission field is N >> >> What is going on? Why does user 'sor' not have any privileges? >> > > Try > > SELECT * FROM mysql.db > > You'll see the permissions there. > > You want to do a: > > FLUSH PRIVILEGES > > to force mysql to re-read the tables. > Thanks. I did and it looks like the permissions are there when selecting from mysql.db It still looks like they are not there when selecting from mysql.user Is this normal? I have not been able to test user sor yet. Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 20 16:46:26 2006 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:46:26 -0400 Subject: MySQL Grant problem In-Reply-To: <45113279.40406-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g@public.gmane.org> References: <4510A18A.7030307@rogers.com> <45113279.40406@mineallmeyn.com> Message-ID: <45117062.6000309@rogers.com> Oliver Meyn wrote: > Stephen wrote: >> >> I connect from XP using MySQL Query Browser with the root account and >> do: > >> >> grant all privileges on sor.* to 'sor'@'localhost' identified by >> 'password'; >> > > Wouldn't you want to grant sor.* to 'sor'@'ip_of_xpmachine' ? Not in this case. The database will be used for a web site and sor will be the PHP user. I am prototyping a system and its setup at home before a load to a web server. Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 20 17:31:45 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:31:45 -0400 Subject: "Linux Client Migration Cookbook" available for download Message-ID: <45117B01.3080602@rogers.com> -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 20 20:18:47 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 16:18:47 -0400 Subject: [OT] Are there any JavaScript User Groups in Southern Ontario? Message-ID: <99a6c38f0609201318i6d8e3171reb08ef203640b18f@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, Things have been pretty active on the Atomic OS front since the project showed up on digg. A new developer has come on board and his helping me convert the kernel into a much more robust design. (Eg, we're adding device files and real processes. Hopefully we'll having some multi-tasking ability soon as a result.) Anyway, we're running into little issues here and there, and while I'm on comp.languages.javascript and some other forums, I'm having trouble finding some answers. Does anyone know of any more local groups that specifically talk JavaScript? TIA -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 20 20:42:24 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 16:42:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Windows Error Messages Message-ID: <50703.207.188.88.64.1158784944.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> I know, I know, this is Off Topic. Shortcut to: http://www.hoax-slayer.com/windows-errors.html -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 20 22:44:57 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 18:44:57 -0400 Subject: [OT] Are there any JavaScript User Groups in Southern Ontario? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0609201318i6d8e3171reb08ef203640b18f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0609201318i6d8e3171reb08ef203640b18f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200609201844.57805.softquake@gmail.com> Recently, I have been quite active with JavaScript - need simply at my work. This is a messy language. But it offers so many possibilities now in developing outstanding web applications. Hence, I would be interested in participating in a mailing list like that one proposed by Scott. I am not sure if through my level of understanding I would be able to contribute - possibly I would. Perhaps someone around running servers would be willing to create a mailing list of that kind? In any case you may try to ask me to solve your problems. zb. On Wednesday 20 September 2006 16:18, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Hi all, > > Things have been pretty active on the Atomic OS front since the > project showed up on digg. A new developer has come on board and his > helping me convert the kernel into a much more robust design. (Eg, > we're adding device files and real processes. Hopefully we'll having > some multi-tasking ability soon as a result.) > > Anyway, we're running into little issues here and there, and while I'm > on comp.languages.javascript and some other forums, I'm having trouble > finding some answers. > > Does anyone know of any more local groups that specifically talk > JavaScript? > > TIA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 02:05:13 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 22:05:13 -0400 Subject: [OT] Are there any JavaScript User Groups in Southern Ontario? In-Reply-To: <200609201844.57805.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0609201318i6d8e3171reb08ef203640b18f@mail.gmail.com> <200609201844.57805.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0609201905l7447f7bcp9af162f86acadb46@mail.gmail.com> On 9/20/06, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > Recently, I have been quite active with JavaScript - need simply at my work. > This is a messy language. But it offers so many possibilities now in > developing outstanding web applications. Hence, I would be interested in > participating in a mailing list like that one proposed by Scott. I am not > sure if through my level of understanding I would be able to contribute - > possibly I would. Who knows until the question has been asked? =) And besides, even if you don't someone else might. Or they might have an idea that leads to a solution. That's why I'm always going off about communications and community I guess. Any, here's the question I posted to comp.languages.javascript: [-- quote begins --] Hi all, I've spent several days trying to work this out. Maybe I'm just searching for the wrong keywords/phrases. I have some code that looks like: [-- snippet starts --] Console = new Object(); Console.init = function() { this.STDIN = document.getElementById('console0_stdin'); this.STDOUT = document.getElementById('console0_stdout'); // set styles on the element references, eg: this.STDIN.style.width = '100%'; this.STDOUT.style.width = '100%'; } Console.focus = function() { this.STDIN.focus(); } Console.writeln = function(buffer) { this.STDOUT.value += "\n" + buffer; } [-- snippet ends --] I'm not sure why, but the Console.focus() and Console.writeln() methods just don't seem to be able to use the DOM references stored in Console.STDIN and Console.STDOUT. Everything's fine in the constructor, but other methods can't seem to use them. Any ideas? TIA - Scott http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ [-- quote ends --] > Perhaps someone around running servers would be willing to create a mailing > list of that kind? Actually, I could (maybe - would have to ask) handle that through the Atomic OS setup using sourceforge, I think. > In any case you may try to ask me to solve your problems. Thanks for your help. If you're interested in what's going on in comp.languages.javascript, you can find it at: http://tinyurl.com/md5rk http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.javascript/browse_thread/thread/80fe7ac111dc8441/324018101d1419f1#324018101d1419f1 -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 05:45:42 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 01:45:42 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge Message-ID: <45122706.90102@telly.org> I've been looking to put a new distro on my laptop, and my choice this time is to do something that is close to being, if not quite yet, fully cooked. I've tried Release Candidate 2 of Mandriva 2007; in fact that's what I'm using as I write this now. It uses the Compiz window manager with 3D effects using the AIGLX extensions to X Windows (it also supports XGL). Some of the eye candy is nice, but it doesn't really offer much more functionality and some things (like the elastic-band characteristic of windows) is starting to get on my nerves. I'm thinking of tossing it, and trying out Kubuntu Edgy instread. Lots of new stuff (and an available package of KDE 4!) but no plans to integrate the 3D stuff anytime soon. I was quite impressed with the Dapper release (which now supports the PLF repository as well as Mandriva). Does anyone have any experience with Edgy they'd like to share? Also: what's the Ubuntu upgrade experience like? Was going from Breezy to Dapper reasonably clean? Thanks for any responses! - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 08:06:01 2006 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 04:06:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Wikipedia software Message-ID: <57175.66.11.182.5.1158825961.squirrel@canuckster.org> What software is used to run wikipedia, is it freely available? jay -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 03:30:37 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 05:30:37 +0200 Subject: Wikipedia software Message-ID: wikipedia on wikipedia says this.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WIKIPEDIA#Software_and_hardware What software is used to run wikipedia, is it freely available? jay -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 10:15:51 2006 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 06:15:51 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <45122706.90102-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> Message-ID: <1158833752.5420.13.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2006-09-21 at 01:45 -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Also: what's the Ubuntu upgrade experience like? Was going from Breezy > to Dapper reasonably clean? In my experience, yes. Breezy to Dapper went smoothly for me on several x86's and an x86_64. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 13:35:52 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:35:52 -0400 Subject: Why Linux is better Message-ID: <45129538.9010602@rogers.com> -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 14:06:24 2006 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:06:24 -0400 Subject: Why Linux is better In-Reply-To: <45129538.9010602-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <45129538.9010602@rogers.com> Message-ID: <92ee967a0609210706g459d25b7s1f5b3f66dec761b8@mail.gmail.com> On 9/21/06, James Knott wrote: > > Here's a $133 machine including a fresh copy of Windows XP Home: There are a lot of good reasons to use Linux, but the price of Windows is not one of them. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ralphellis1-VsqqI1RANlEsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 14:15:33 2006 From: ralphellis1-VsqqI1RANlEsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ralph Ellis) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:15:33 -0400 Subject: Why Linux is better In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0609210706g459d25b7s1f5b3f66dec761b8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <45129538.9010602@rogers.com> <92ee967a0609210706g459d25b7s1f5b3f66dec761b8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45129E85.9040809@netscape.ca> Mike Kallies wrote: > On 9/21/06, James Knott wrote: >> >> > > Here's a $133 machine including a fresh copy of Windows XP Home: > > > > > There are a lot of good reasons to use Linux, but the price of Windows > is not one of them. > > > -Mike > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Usually the price of Windows itself is not the key concern but the need to buy security software, an office suite, graphics software, etc. I figure that if I had know enough about Linux 3 years ago, I would have saved about $1,000 in various software purchases over that time. The learning curve is steeper but you do save in the long run. Ralph Ellis -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 14:58:27 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <1158833752.5420.13.camel@localhost> References: <1158833752.5420.13.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20060921145827.76770.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com> The only issue that I came across was that hotway and hotsmtp are not working in Dapper so I can not read my hotmail emails from within Evolution. EK interlug wrote: On Thu, 2006-09-21 at 01:45 -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Also: what's the Ubuntu upgrade experience like? Was going from Breezy > to Dapper reasonably clean? In my experience, yes. Breezy to Dapper went smoothly for me on several x86's and an x86_64. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists --------------------------------- All new Yahoo! Mail - --------------------------------- Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From behdad-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 15:06:09 2006 From: behdad-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:06:09 -0400 Subject: Wikipedia software In-Reply-To: <57175.66.11.182.5.1158825961.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <57175.66.11.182.5.1158825961.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <1158851169.23483.4.camel@home> On Thu, 2006-09-21 at 04:06 -0400, Jason Carson wrote: > What software is used to run wikipedia, is it freely available? mediawiki. It's publicly available, yes. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki > jay > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- behdad http://behdad.org/ "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill" -- Dan Bern, "New American Language" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 09:43:54 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:43:54 +0200 Subject: Zimbabwe Message-ID: I am sure other countries are looking at this, and seeing how they will solve this. Zimbabwe without internet is not the same as say, Spain without Internet. Internet is way down the list, but it is there, and its important too. Although if you think about it...710K US should be pretty small potatoes for a country. ------- Internet services in Zimbabwe almost ground to a halt after fixed telephone provider TelOne said it had been disconnected from a satellite link for racking up arrears of 710,000 dollars. "We have been disconnected but we have since written a letter to the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe (RBZ) explaining our situation that we need 710,000 US dollars to offset our dues," Wellington Makamure, the state-owned TelOne's managing director told AFP. "They (RBZ) have helped us before and we are hopeful that the funds will be made available," to bail the firm out, he said Thursday. The move has resulted in slower browsing speeds for internet users. "This is catastrophic as all legal Internet Service Providers (ISPs) utilise TelOne for their outgoing bandwidth to the World Wide Web as well as for e-mail traffic," MWeb, the country's largest ISP, said in a statement. "Thus all such ISPs have and are being affected by this down time. In short, this is causing an almost collapse of the Internet in Zimbabwe." Makamure said the country is currently "re-routing every internet communication using other various options", but did not explain further. The southern African country is in the midst of an economic crisis characterised by four-digit inflation, soaring poverty levels, an unemployment rate hovering at over 70 percent and chronic shortages of fuel and basic goods such as cornmeal. ? AFP Internet services in Zimbabwe almost ground to a halt after fixed telephone provider TelOne said it had been disconnected from a satellite link for racking up arrears of 710,000 dollars. . "We have been disconnected but we have since written a letter to the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe (RBZ) explaining our situation that we need 710,000 US dollars to offset our dues," Wellington Makamure, the state-owned TelOne's managing director told AFP. . "They (RBZ) have helped us before and we are hopeful that the funds will be made available," to bail the firm out, he said Thursday. . The move has resulted in slower browsing speeds for internet users. . "This is catastrophic as all legal Internet Service Providers (ISPs) utilise TelOne for their outgoing bandwidth to the World Wide Web as well as for e-mail traffic," MWeb, the country's largest ISP, said in a statement. . "Thus all such ISPs have and are being affected by this down time. In short, this is causing an almost collapse of the Internet in Zimbabwe." . Makamure said the country is currently "re-routing every internet communication using other various options", but did not explain further. . The southern African country is in the midst of an economic crisis characterised by four-digit inflation, soaring poverty levels, an unemployment rate hovering at over 70 percent and chronic shortages of fuel and basic goods such as cornmeal. ? AFP Internet services in Zimbabwe almost ground to a halt after fixed telephone provider TelOne said it had been disconnected from a satellite link for racking up arrears of 710,000 dollars. . "We have been disconnected but we have since written a letter to the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe (RBZ) explaining our situation that we need 710,000 US dollars to offset our dues," Wellington Makamure, the state-owned TelOne's managing director told AFP. . "They (RBZ) have helped us before and we are hopeful that the funds will be made available," to bail the firm out, he said Thursday. . The move has resulted in slower browsing speeds for internet users. . "This is catastrophic as all legal Internet Service Providers (ISPs) utilise TelOne for their outgoing bandwidth to the World Wide Web as well as for e-mail traffic," MWeb, the country's largest ISP, said in a statement. . "Thus all such ISPs have and are being affected by this down time. In short, this is causing an almost collapse of the Internet in Zimbabwe." . Makamure said the country is currently "re-routing every internet communication using other various options", but did not explain further. . The southern African country is in the midst of an economic crisis characterised by four-digit inflation, soaring poverty levels, an unemployment rate hovering at over 70 percent and chronic shortages of fuel and basic goods such as cornmeal. ? AFP -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 15:51:12 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:51:12 -0400 Subject: Why Linux is better In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0609210706g459d25b7s1f5b3f66dec761b8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <45129538.9010602@rogers.com> <92ee967a0609210706g459d25b7s1f5b3f66dec761b8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4512B4F0.3010805@rogers.com> Mike Kallies wrote: > On 9/21/06, James Knott wrote: >> >> > > Here's a $133 machine including a fresh copy of Windows XP Home: > > > > > There are a lot of good reasons to use Linux, but the price of Windows > is not one of them. It's no problem to buy cheap hardware, with or without Linux. However price is only a small part of the picture. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 15:58:43 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:58:43 -0400 Subject: Ohio LinuxFest In-Reply-To: <1158622287.5308.8.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10609181555r30e76352y8b8981a247d273c6@mail.gmail.com> <1158622287.5308.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1158854323.3895.2.camel@spot1.localhost.com> If you have time check out the fully stocked Lamborghini dealership in Marysville just 20min from I-270 loop up 33(w) at Hwy36. RickT -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Mon, 2006-09-18 at 19:31 -0400, John Van Ostrand wrote: > On Mon, 2006-09-18 at 18:55 -0400, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > > > > > > -- > > > > Good stuff! Ohio Linuxfest sounds like a fun affair... I have never > > been... maybe I will make it out there next year. > > Richard Weait convinced me two years ago and I've been ever since. The > speakers are often key developers in the projects that they are > presenting. There are so many good talks that it's often a tough choice > between tracks. > > It's worth the 7 hour drive to Columbus. It's a nice city that has a > great university district. > > I also make a point of stopping at the famous Tony Packo's > http://www.tonypackos.com/ along the way. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 16:07:00 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 12:07:00 -0400 Subject: [OT] Zimbabwe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4512B8A4.5060701@alteeve.com> Teddy David Mills wrote: > > I am sure other countries are looking at this, and seeing how they will > solve this. Zimbabwe without internet is not the same as say, Spain > without Internet. > Internet is way down the list, but it is there, and its important too. > Although if you think about it...710K US should be pretty small potatoes > for a country. Heh, About a year ago one of the CBC Radio people (Anna Maria Tramonte?) interviewed a Zimbabwe higher-up about razing a bunch of homes that didn't have proper permits (or some such) leaving many thousands homeless. At one point she asked this rep why Mugabe would be building another multi-million dollar house while his people are suffering such incredible poverty and hardship. His answer was to accuse her of racism because, as he put it, she couldn't accept that a black man was successful. Mugabe et. al. have their heads so far up the rears that they can tickle their own tonsils with their tongues. What do they care about the internet? It's convenient censorship, I should expect. If only they had oil... Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tgoodaire-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 16:08:32 2006 From: tgoodaire-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tim Goodaire) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 12:08:32 -0400 Subject: Wikipedia software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <76d625fd0609210908m35de88f9udf85eaa099ba44bf@mail.gmail.com> On 9/20/06, Teddy David Mills wrote: > > > > wikipedia on wikipedia says this.... > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WIKIPEDIA#Software_and_hardware > > > What software is used to run wikipedia, is it freely available? It's called MediaWiki (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki), and it's free. jay > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 16:23:04 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 12:23:04 -0400 Subject: Zimbabwe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4512BC68.3000600@telly.org> Teddy David Mills wrote: > The move has resulted in slower browsing speeds for internet users. > "This is catastrophic as all legal Internet Service Providers (ISPs) > utilise TelOne for their outgoing bandwidth to the World Wide Web as > well as for e-mail traffic," MWeb, the country's largest ISP, said in > a statement. "Thus all such ISPs have and are being affected by this > down time. > In short, this is causing an almost collapse of the Internet in Zimbabwe." Did anyone catch the reference to _LEGAL_ Internet service providers? I wonder what the illegal/underground ones are doing? > Makamure said the country is currently "re-routing every internet > communication using other various options", > but did not explain further. The southern African country is in the > midst of an economic crisis characterised by four-digit inflation, > soaring poverty levels, an unemployment rate hovering at over 70 > percent and chronic shortages of fuel and basic goods such as > cornmeal. ? AFP Two years ago, I was invited to a UN meeting in Geneva to help explain the benefits of FOSS to international diplomats. It was the representative from Zimbabwe who stood up and gave a speech that may as well have been ghost-written by Microsoft, even more extreme than the American position. It was a FUD-filled diatribe that questioned the trustworthiness of open source as a tool of helping developing nations -- at a time when many of Zimbabwe's neighbours were already embracing it. Go figure. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 16:26:23 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:26:23 +0000 Subject: [OT] Zimbabwe In-Reply-To: <4512B8A4.5060701-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4512B8A4.5060701@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 9/21/06, Madison Kelly wrote: > If only they had oil... If they had oil, they'd have a new set of problems, and it might very well be the case that the very same people suffering incredible poverty and hardship would be suffering identically. It seems likely to me that something is very much broken in between the ISPs and the central company that is arranging the satellite bandwidth. It wouldn't surprise me at all if money was being skimmed out of that, thereby starving their ability to actually buy bandwidth. A central communications monopoly is an excellent target for efficient centralized skimming... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 16:45:02 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:45:02 +0000 Subject: Zimbabwe In-Reply-To: <4512BC68.3000600-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4512BC68.3000600@telly.org> Message-ID: On 9/21/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Teddy David Mills wrote: > > The move has resulted in slower browsing speeds for internet users. > > "This is catastrophic as all legal Internet Service Providers (ISPs) > > utilise TelOne for their outgoing bandwidth to the World Wide Web as > > well as for e-mail traffic," MWeb, the country's largest ISP, said in > > a statement. "Thus all such ISPs have and are being affected by this > > down time. > > In short, this is causing an almost collapse of the Internet in Zimbabwe." > Did anyone catch the reference to _LEGAL_ Internet service providers? > I wonder what the illegal/underground ones are doing? The SF show "Battlestar Galactica" had an episode this season on the operation of a black market within their fleet. Most interesting; it started out with a "principled" (ergo, left-leaning, liberal) politician deciding that as a problem was noticed, therefore the black market must be eliminated. Things fell to more of a "detente," by the end, which struck me as being the right answer. Black markets tend to arise when the "public" markets break down due to regulations that enforce uneconomic behaviours. The Soviet Union saw the phenomenon for a number of reasons; when they did heavy price-fixing, things squeezed to black markets in several directions: 1. Goods that customers valued more than the fixed prices could allow charging would disappear to the black market because better prices could be had there; 2. You're left with "public" stores filled with goods not very much worth buying; those without the budget to buy things they want from the black market would be stuck waiting in line for whatever was underpriced there; 3. Some goods would simply become publicly unavailable. Automobiles were exceedingly challenging to get, for instance. We have never seen these phenomena here in Canada to any material degree; we haven't seen prices fixed to a degree that would force products out of stores, with cigarette smuggling being a near-example. What we see, instead, is black markets used to market products that are outright illegal, such as drugs and prohibited weapons. The economic tales seem to indicate that to the degree to which the former Soviet Union did function, economically, the black market was very likely in considerable service of that. Attempts to squeeze it out seem generally bad. In the case of our black markets that are primarily trading in illegal items, I suspect there's still some ambiguity there. The US "War on Drugs" doesn't seem to have worked out terribly well. In more "challenged economies," whether African, historical, or fictional, seriously trying to eliminate black marks is probably a very bad idea, in fact. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 17:22:56 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 13:22:56 -0400 Subject: FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD Message-ID: <1158859376.3895.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Convicted monopolist Microsoft sponsored IDC research shows that the launch of Windows Vista will precipitate cascading economic benefits. Installing patches and re imaging hard drives thought by some to boost job opportunities. http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1000097 RickT -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD ...end of FUD -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 17:24:09 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 13:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Zimbabwe In-Reply-To: References: <4512BC68.3000600@telly.org> Message-ID: <50923.207.188.88.64.1158859449.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > The US "War on Drugs" doesn't seem to have worked > out terribly well. > If you assume its purpose is to restrict trade in drugs. If it's purpose is to enhance police budgets, it's worked fine. The illicit drug industry and the police are co-dependent. The drug guys need the police to keep the drug prices up, the police need drug busts to keep their budgets up. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 17:45:57 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 13:45:57 -0400 Subject: iPod on Linux Message-ID: <1158860757.3895.19.camel@spot1.localhost.com> I received an iPod for a gift but it requires Windows/Mac to load music. (groan) I've found some links for Linux help below. Any positive experiences on alternatives for iPod loading using Linux appreciated. Thanks in advance. http://pag.csail.mit.edu/~adonovan/hacks/ipod.html http://www.cs.duke.edu/~geha/ipod/ http://www.cavecanen.org/linux/ipod/ RickT -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From LLanktree-BI68pzi1WsjYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 17:57:35 2006 From: LLanktree-BI68pzi1WsjYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Lorie Lanktree) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 13:57:35 -0400 Subject: Zimbabwe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Christopher Browne Sent: 21-Sep-06 12:45 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Zimbabwe On 9/21/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Teddy David Mills wrote: > > In short, this is causing an almost collapse of the Internet in Zimbabwe." > Did anyone catch the reference to _LEGAL_ Internet service providers? > I wonder what the illegal/underground ones are doing? Black markets tend to arise when the "public" markets break down due to regulations that enforce uneconomic behaviours. The Soviet Union saw the phenomenon for a number of reasons; when they did heavy price-fixing, things squeezed to black markets in several directions: Exactly!! Once we get the government regulations out of the drug market the black market in cocaine and heroin will magicly go away. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 17:58:13 2006 From: Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 13:58:13 -0400 Subject: iPod on Linux In-Reply-To: <1158860757.3895.19.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1158860757.3895.19.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: http://www.yamipod.com/ Windows, Mac, Linux. Able to run off a USB stick. What else do you need? _______________________________________________________________________________ Jason Shein Network Administrator ? Linux Systems Iovate Health Sciences Inc. 5100 Spectrum Way Mississauga, ON L4W 5S2 ( 905 ) - 678 - 3119 x 3136 1 - 888 - 334 - 4448, x 3136 (toll-free) jason.shein at iovate.com From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 18:02:36 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:02:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: iPod on Linux In-Reply-To: <1158860757.3895.19.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1158860757.3895.19.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <20060921180236.42330.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > I received an iPod for a gift but it requires > Windows/Mac to load music. > (groan) I've found some links for Linux help below. > Any positive > experiences on alternatives for iPod loading using > Linux appreciated. > Thanks in advance. > http://pag.csail.mit.edu/~adonovan/hacks/ipod.html > http://www.cs.duke.edu/~geha/ipod/ > http://www.cavecanen.org/linux/ipod/ > > RickT How to make your iPod play nicely with Linux: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8160 Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 18:14:49 2006 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:14:49 -0400 Subject: Zimbabwe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 9/21/06, Lorie Lanktree wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of > Christopher Browne > Sent: 21-Sep-06 12:45 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Zimbabwe > > > On 9/21/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Teddy David Mills wrote: > > > > In short, this is causing an almost collapse of the Internet in > Zimbabwe." > > > Did anyone catch the reference to _LEGAL_ Internet service providers? > > I wonder what the illegal/underground ones are doing? > > Black markets tend to arise when the "public" markets break down due > to regulations that enforce uneconomic behaviours. The Soviet Union > saw the phenomenon for a number of reasons; when they did heavy > price-fixing, things squeezed to black markets in several directions: > > > Exactly!! > Once we get the government regulations out of the drug market the black > market in cocaine and heroin will magicly go away. Ah yes, I'm all for coding on cocaine. Is that Xtreme Programing taken to the, well, extreme? > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world --John Lennon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 18:26:39 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:26:39 -0400 Subject: Fud, Fud and Fud et al Message-ID: <4512D95F.6020901@rogers.com> While it seems that M$ is resorting to historical methods of media manipulation, their efforts don't seem to be generating the desired effect, aat least according to this article in the Financial times: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/e14962ce-4734-11db-83df-0000779e2340.html John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 18:48:23 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:48:23 -0400 Subject: iPod on Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1158864503.3895.21.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Impressive...Thanks! On Thu, 2006-09-21 at 13:58 -0400, Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org wrote: > http://www.yamipod.com/ > > Windows, Mac, Linux. Able to run off a USB stick. What else do you need? > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Jason Shein > Network Administrator ? Linux Systems > Iovate Health Sciences Inc. > 5100 Spectrum Way > Mississauga, ON L4W 5S2 > ( 905 ) - 678 - 3119 x 3136 > 1 - 888 - 334 - 4448, x 3136 (toll-free) > jason.shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org > > > y:+{h.)K 1?x,m?-Az.))60m{Z0G(?z0I at R m Z?)"?)X -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 18:54:34 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:54:34 -0400 Subject: Fud, Fud and Fud et al In-Reply-To: <4512D95F.6020901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4512D95F.6020901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1158864874.3895.27.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Keeping in line with the "only we're allowed to break the law mentality" iPod competitor Micro$oft Zune looks like a completely lawless utility which will destroy the music industry once and for all. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,2016085,00.asp On Thu, 2006-09-21 at 14:26 -0400, John McGregor wrote: > While it seems that M$ is resorting to historical methods of media > manipulation, their efforts don't seem to be generating the desired > effect, aat least according to this article in the Financial times: > http://www.ft.com/cms/s/e14962ce-4734-11db-83df-0000779e2340.html > > John > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- "I wonder what's going to happen next" http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 18:59:59 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <45122706.90102-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Sep 2006, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I've been looking to put a new distro on my laptop, and my choice this > time is to do something that is close to being, if not quite yet, fully > cooked. > > I've tried Release Candidate 2 of Mandriva 2007; in fact that's what I'm > using as I write this now. It uses the Compiz window manager with 3D > effects using the AIGLX extensions to X Windows (it also supports XGL). > Some of the eye candy is nice, but it doesn't really offer much more > functionality and some things (like the elastic-band characteristic of > windows) is starting to get on my nerves. > > I'm thinking of tossing it, Why would you toss an entire distro because you don't like the window manager? Use whategver window manager suits you; the distro has nothing to do with it. My desktop look the same whether I'm using Mandriva, Ubuntu or any other distro. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 19:04:55 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:04:55 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> Message-ID: Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Thu, 21 Sep 2006, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >> I've been looking to put a new distro on my laptop, and my choice this >> time is to do something that is close to being, if not quite yet, fully >> cooked. >> >> I've tried Release Candidate 2 of Mandriva 2007; in fact that's what I'm >> using as I write this now. It uses the Compiz window manager with 3D >> effects using the AIGLX extensions to X Windows (it also supports XGL). >> Some of the eye candy is nice, but it doesn't really offer much more >> functionality and some things (like the elastic-band characteristic of >> windows) is starting to get on my nerves. >> >> I'm thinking of tossing it, > > Why would you toss an entire distro because you don't like the > window manager? Use whategver window manager suits you; the distro > has nothing to do with it. My desktop look the same whether I'm > using Mandriva, Ubuntu or any other distro. Well, it sounds as if it more a matter of turning off aiglx by default rather than window manager in this case. That and/or compiz. I'd rather run a distro that has compiz off by default, especially considering that the project has now forked. Also, being a Release Candidate is a good reason in many cases to drop a distro, or a version thereof. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 19:05:53 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:05:53 -0400 Subject: Fud, Fud and Fud et al In-Reply-To: <1158864874.3895.27.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <4512D95F.6020901@rogers.com> <1158864874.3895.27.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > Keeping in line with the "only we're allowed to break the law mentality" > iPod competitor Micro$oft Zune looks like a completely lawless utility > which will destroy the music industry once and for all. > http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,2016085,00.asp Good. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 19:27:38 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 19:27:38 +0000 Subject: iPod on Linux In-Reply-To: <1158860757.3895.19.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1158860757.3895.19.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: On 9/21/06, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > I received an iPod for a gift but it requires Windows/Mac to load music. Nonsense. That's just FUD. I have never used Windows/Mac to load music on my iPod. I have been happy enough with GNUpod gtkpod is also reputedly usable. I have had less success with it, myself; it tends to crash on me :-(. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 19:34:32 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:34:32 -0400 Subject: Ohio LinuxFest In-Reply-To: <1158854323.3895.2.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10609181555r30e76352y8b8981a247d273c6@mail.gmail.com> <1158622287.5308.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1158854323.3895.2.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <20060921193432.GN13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 21, 2006 at 11:58:43AM -0400, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > If you have time check out the fully stocked Lamborghini dealership in > Marysville just 20min from I-270 loop up 33(w) at Hwy36. Better than the one on Front Street? :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 20:00:27 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:00:27 -0400 Subject: iPod on Linux In-Reply-To: References: <1158860757.3895.19.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880609211300g1418a889ucc98dcdf6366092e@mail.gmail.com> Well I personally love Amarok for ipod On 9/21/06, Christopher Browne wrote: > > On 9/21/06, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > I received an iPod for a gift but it requires Windows/Mac to load music. > > Nonsense. That's just FUD. > > I have never used Windows/Mac to load music on my iPod. I have been > happy enough with GNUpod > > gtkpod is also reputedly usable. I have had > less success with it, myself; it tends to crash on me :-(. > -- > http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html > Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This > is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and > `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 20:29:19 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:29:19 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <45122706.90102-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060921202919.GO13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 21, 2006 at 01:45:42AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I've been looking to put a new distro on my laptop, and my choice this > time is to do something that is close to being, if not quite yet, fully > cooked. > > I've tried Release Candidate 2 of Mandriva 2007; in fact that's what I'm > using as I write this now. It uses the Compiz window manager with 3D > effects using the AIGLX extensions to X Windows (it also supports XGL). > Some of the eye candy is nice, but it doesn't really offer much more > functionality and some things (like the elastic-band characteristic of > windows) is starting to get on my nerves. > > I'm thinking of tossing it, and trying out Kubuntu Edgy instread. Lots > of new stuff (and an available package of KDE 4!) but no plans to > integrate the 3D stuff anytime soon. I was quite impressed with the > Dapper release (which now supports the PLF repository as well as > Mandriva). Does anyone have any experience with Edgy they'd like to share? > > Also: what's the Ubuntu upgrade experience like? Was going from Breezy > to Dapper reasonably clean? I am not sure they support skipping versions (I don't run ubuntu myself). Might have to upgrade one version at a time. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 20:38:53 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:38:53 -0400 Subject: Ohio LinuxFest In-Reply-To: <20060921193432.GN13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10609181555r30e76352y8b8981a247d273c6@mail.gmail.com> <1158622287.5308.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1158854323.3895.2.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <20060921193432.GN13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1158871133.3895.30.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Never seen the one downtown. This one claims to be the largest in USA. http://www.lamborghiniohio.com/ On Thu, 2006-09-21 at 15:34 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 21, 2006 at 11:58:43AM -0400, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > If you have time check out the fully stocked Lamborghini dealership in > > Marysville just 20min from I-270 loop up 33(w) at Hwy36. > > Better than the one on Front Street? :) > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 20:51:13 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:51:13 -0400 Subject: Ohio LinuxFest In-Reply-To: <1158871133.3895.30.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10609181555r30e76352y8b8981a247d273c6@mail.gmail.com> <1158622287.5308.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1158854323.3895.2.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <20060921193432.GN13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1158871133.3895.30.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <20060921205113.GP13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 21, 2006 at 04:38:53PM -0400, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > Never seen the one downtown. This one claims to be the largest in USA. > http://www.lamborghiniohio.com/ You go to the corner of front and bathurst, and look through the windows. Or you can try and spot the quite small lamborghini logo on the wall by the garage door. They also sell Ducati bikes. The place is certainly rather low profile when you just go by. Much easier to spot the Toyota dealer near it at front and spadina. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 21:20:45 2006 From: sy1234-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy Ali) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:20:45 -0500 Subject: FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD In-Reply-To: <1158859376.3895.13.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1158859376.3895.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <1e55af990609211420vdda67des8376912bbf84e83b@mail.gmail.com> On 9/21/06, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > Convicted monopolist Microsoft sponsored IDC research shows that the > launch of Windows Vista will precipitate cascading economic benefits. > Installing patches and re imaging hard drives thought by some to boost > job opportunities. > > http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1000097 Wow, where can I get this mmorpg? I went to ebgame but they just looked at me funny. ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 21:29:25 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:29:25 -0400 Subject: Ohio LinuxFest In-Reply-To: <20060921205113.GP13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <61e9e2b10609181555r30e76352y8b8981a247d273c6@mail.gmail.com> <1158622287.5308.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1158854323.3895.2.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <20060921193432.GN13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1158871133.3895.30.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <20060921205113.GP13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1158874165.3895.32.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Yes, but then we miss out on the drive to Columbus, OH. On Thu, 2006-09-21 at 16:51 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 21, 2006 at 04:38:53PM -0400, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > Never seen the one downtown. This one claims to be the largest in USA. > > http://www.lamborghiniohio.com/ > > You go to the corner of front and bathurst, and look through the > windows. Or you can try and spot the quite small lamborghini logo on > the wall by the garage door. They also sell Ducati bikes. The place is > certainly rather low profile when you just go by. Much easier to spot > the Toyota dealer near it at front and spadina. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 21:54:18 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:54:18 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> Message-ID: <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > Why would you toss an entire distro because you don't like the window > manager? Use whategver window manager suits you; the distro has > nothing to do with it. My desktop look the same whether I'm using > Mandriva, Ubuntu or any other distro. I try not to make my posts too lengthy these days, so I left lots out of the original post -- the window manager is far from the only reason I'm looking to switch. Mandriva's package management system is getting worse, not better. Their shot at a live/install system, Mandriva One, fails to impress. Besides the technical issues, recent management changes (ie, a nasty parting of ways with founder Gael Duval) have led to an attitude more like Red Hat and Novell than what Mandriva/Mandrake has traditionally offered. As a result they're putting more distance between the for-pay versions and the free ones. By contrast, the commitment that there will only ever be one "level" of Ubuntu, identical for commercial or free use, offers significant appeal. And the one feature that I liked best about Mandriva at the time that Colin and I wrote the for the TuxMag shootout a few months ago -- the PLF repository -- is now available for Ubuntu. I may yet stay with Mandriva -- kubuntu may turn out to have "idiosyncrasies" of its own -- but I'd like to evaluate some alternatives before settling in for another few years. Re-install time is the best time to do a look around and re-survey the landscape. Heck, I might even be ready for Gentoo, if it can handle laptop issues such as wireless networking, battery power and hibernation... - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 22:13:56 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:13:56 -0400 Subject: Fud, Fud and Fud et al In-Reply-To: <4512D95F.6020901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4512D95F.6020901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45130EA4.5040002@telly.org> John McGregor wrote: > While it seems that M$ is resorting to historical methods of media > manipulation, their efforts don't seem to be generating the desired > effect, aat least according to this article in the Financial times: > http://www.ft.com/cms/s/e14962ce-4734-11db-83df-0000779e2340.html > Withholding (or slowing the introduction of) Vista from Europe really only hurts Microsoft. XP does what most people need, and MS needs the upgrade money more than people need the upgrade. Also consider that the longer MS delays Vista use worldwide, the longer ISVs may delay their introduction of Vista products, making the upgrade pitch harder in countries that _do_ have it available. Hardware companies will be able to buy time and sell non-Vista compliant gear. And, of course, the whole situation exposes the bully mentality even further and helps demonstrate to the public why MS is an unworthy supplier. Remember the whole City of Munich thing? The more Microsoft tried to kill the Linux the deal, the more they demonstrated that Linux was a better choice. Having said that, I'm not sure if bundling is per-se an anti-competitive practise unless it resembles dumping. It *is* conceivable that MS may be adding in more features to justify the value of Vista, a totally legitimate activity IMO. It's the locking out of competing alternatives, technically through hidden APIs or non-technically through OEM/reseller agreements, that are anti-competitive. After all, consider what's "bundled" in a typical Linux distribution. Are Linux distributors being anti-competitive against Adobe by including Xpdf, Ghostscript and Gimp? Is the installation-on-request of CLAM anti-competitive? If Linux distributions can include search engines, anti-virus and other tools that hurt sales from vendors of those products, why can't Microsoft? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 22:22:47 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 22:22:47 +0000 Subject: visearch Message-ID: Here's a pretty perverse web application... visearch.com The oddity is that it looks like it's doing a bunch of Javascript in order to emulate the user interface of vi. Apparently you can "dd" delete results you decide you didn't want, ":w" to save edited search results, and such... Very bizarre... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 22:49:18 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:49:18 -0400 Subject: FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD In-Reply-To: <1158859376.3895.13.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1158859376.3895.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <451316EE.1090607@telly.org> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > Convicted monopolist Microsoft sponsored IDC research shows that the > launch of Windows Vista will precipitate cascading economic benefits. > Installing patches and re imaging hard drives thought by some to boost > job opportunities. > > http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1000097 > I wish that folks thought a little more when tossing the term FUD around. Using it to describe anything a competitor says that one doesn't like helps neither the LJ writer nor the word. And this instance is _clearly_ not FUD. FUD is the use of rumours and innuendo to discredit competition by spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt about existing things. This particular tactic by MS is to promise (or really, just predict) future benefits if the EU gets out of its way. Furthermore, you know there's some accuracy to what's being said (though it's no doubt exaggerated). The IT industry _will_ make scads of money from upgrading companies to Vista -- not only the software itself and the services sold to do the actual upgrade, but the procurement of new hardware needed to run it, associated consultants fees, migration preparation, training etc etc etc. It's not a lie, or even a nasty rumour, that if the upgrade does not exist, the IT industry will lose out. At worst, the report is a half-truth in that it ignores the fact that money not spent on upgrades will not magically vanish. Money not spent on Vista will be spent on other needs, allow for creation of non-IT-support jobs, or simply allow companies to be more profitable and competitive by reducing expenses. While nobody expects MS/IDC to present the positive side of not having all those upgrades, it's clear that the IT sector -- the non-innovative, box-selling and disk-inserting portion of that sector -- stands to gain if the upgrade opportunity exists and stands to lose if it doesn't. I don't understand why anyone would be surprised at a report that states this case, let along consider it FUD. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 23:30:30 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 19:30:30 -0400 Subject: iPod on Linux In-Reply-To: <1158860757.3895.19.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1158860757.3895.19.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <200609211930.30526.marc@lijour.net> On September 21, 2006 01:45 pm, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > I received an iPod for a gift but it requires Windows/Mac to load music. > (groan) I've found some links for Linux help below. Any positive > experiences on alternatives for iPod loading using Linux appreciated. I love kpod (see sourceforge). There is a kio interface, aka you can type ipod:// instead of ftp:// or http:// in konqueror and then use drag and drop from there (beware it is a little trickier than that though as you have to click on some file to resync). All in all it is a pretty and very promissing package. I like also Amarok, and it is not only the ipod interface, you get the full Amarok package... GtkPod is very good too as said earlier on this list. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 23:47:02 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 19:47:02 -0400 Subject: FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD In-Reply-To: <451316EE.1090607-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1158859376.3895.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <451316EE.1090607@telly.org> Message-ID: <1158882422.3895.62.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt can exist if companies perceive that their lifeline to IT is in trouble. (eg. Gates/Ballmer Co.) The sheep that follow these turkeys may fear hardship if Micro$oft is not permitted to have its way. Micro$oft has cultivated an image of being indispensable in the market place. In fact while solving some problems such as ease of use and pervasiveness they have in fact created more problems than they solved by the dissemination of low quality code to the mass market under the guise of being a solid product. How many lost hours are in your life or your tech's life rebooting windows, running virus scans, spyware scans, reimagaing...and so on when you could have been doing something more productive? Day against DRM Oct. 3, 2006. Order some stickers from http://defectivebydesign.org/en/node RickT "Friends don't let friends use windows. Show a suffering windows user Linux today" http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Thu, 2006-09-21 at 18:49 -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > all those upgrades, it's clear that the IT sector -- the non-innovative, > box-selling and disk-inserting portion of that sector -- stands to gain > if the upgrade opportunity exists and stands to lose if it doesn't. > > I don't understand why anyone would be surprised at a report that states > this case, let along consider it FUD. > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 23:59:00 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 19:59:00 -0400 Subject: Why Linux is better In-Reply-To: <4512B4F0.3010805-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <45129538.9010602@rogers.com> <92ee967a0609210706g459d25b7s1f5b3f66dec761b8@mail.gmail.com> <4512B4F0.3010805@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45132744.5040507@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > Mike Kallies wrote: >> On 9/21/06, James Knott wrote: >>> >>> >> >> Here's a $133 machine including a fresh copy of Windows XP Home: >> >> >> >> >> There are a lot of good reasons to use Linux, but the price of Windows >> is not one of them. > > It's no problem to buy cheap hardware, with or without Linux. However > price is only a small part of the picture. Sorry, typo. That should have been "with or without Windows". -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 00:02:02 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:02:02 -0400 Subject: [OT] Are there any JavaScript User Groups in Southern Ontario? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0609201905l7447f7bcp9af162f86acadb46-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0609201318i6d8e3171reb08ef203640b18f@mail.gmail.com> <200609201844.57805.softquake@gmail.com> <99a6c38f0609201905l7447f7bcp9af162f86acadb46@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200609212002.02385.softquake@gmail.com> On Wednesday 20 September 2006 22:05, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 9/20/06, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > Recently, I have been quite active with JavaScript - need simply at my > > work. This is a messy language. But it offers so many possibilities now > > in developing outstanding web applications. Hence, I would be interested > > in participating in a mailing list like that one proposed by Scott. I am > > not sure if through my level of understanding I would be able to > > contribute - possibly I would. > > Who knows until the question has been asked? =) > > And besides, even if you don't someone else might. Or they might have > an idea that leads to a solution. That's why I'm always going off > about communications and community I guess. > > Any, here's the question I posted to comp.languages.javascript: > > [-- quote begins --] > Hi all, > > I've spent several days trying to work this out. Maybe I'm just > searching for the wrong keywords/phrases. > > I have some code that looks like: > > [-- snippet starts --] > Console = new Object(); > Console.init = function() { > this.STDIN = document.getElementById('console0_stdin'); > this.STDOUT = document.getElementById('console0_stdout'); > > // set styles on the element references, eg: > this.STDIN.style.width = '100%'; > this.STDOUT.style.width = '100%'; > } > > Console.focus = function() { > this.STDIN.focus(); > } > > Console.writeln = function(buffer) { > this.STDOUT.value += "\n" + buffer; > } > > [-- snippet ends --] > > I'm not sure why, but the Console.focus() and Console.writeln() methods > just don't seem to be able to use the DOM references stored in > Console.STDIN and Console.STDOUT. Everything's fine in the > constructor, but other methods can't seem to use them. > > Any ideas? TIA I guess you force me to learn better OOP in JavaScript? ;) Ideas? Not really so far. Perhaps a browser issue? Did you try on various browsers? My experience is that JavaScript works differently on every browser;) Not only because of differences or ambiguity in implementing JavaScript or DOM but also due to a number of bugs in any browser. zb. > > - Scott > http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ > [-- quote ends --] > > > Perhaps someone around running servers would be willing to create a > > mailing list of that kind? > > Actually, I could (maybe - would have to ask) handle that through the > Atomic OS setup using sourceforge, I think. > > > In any case you may try to ask me to solve your problems. > > Thanks for your help. If you're interested in what's going on in > comp.languages.javascript, you can find it at: > > http://tinyurl.com/md5rk > http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.javascript/browse_thread/thread/80 >fe7ac111dc8441/324018101d1419f1#324018101d1419f1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 00:25:06 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:25:06 -0400 Subject: Fud, Fud and Fud et al In-Reply-To: <45130EA4.5040002-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4512D95F.6020901@rogers.com> <45130EA4.5040002@telly.org> Message-ID: <45132D62.5070308@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Also consider that the longer MS delays Vista use worldwide, the longer > ISVs may delay their introduction of Vista products, making the upgrade > pitch harder in countries that _do_ have it available. Hardware > companies will be able to buy time and sell non-Vista compliant gear. > And, of course, the whole situation exposes the bully mentality even > further and helps demonstrate to the public why MS is an unworthy supplier. > > Remember the whole City of Munich thing? The more Microsoft tried to > kill the Linux the deal, the more they demonstrated that Linux was a > better choice. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 00:25:28 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:25:28 -0400 Subject: [OT] Are there any JavaScript User Groups in Southern Ontario? In-Reply-To: <200609212002.02385.softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0609201318i6d8e3171reb08ef203640b18f@mail.gmail.com> <200609201844.57805.softquake@gmail.com> <99a6c38f0609201905l7447f7bcp9af162f86acadb46@mail.gmail.com> <200609212002.02385.softquake@gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0609211725t16c11a2cncb8b8fb367a8cec9@mail.gmail.com> On 9/21/06, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On Wednesday 20 September 2006 22:05, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > Any ideas? TIA > > I guess you force me to learn better OOP in JavaScript? ;) lol. Me too. =) > Ideas? Not really so far. Perhaps a browser issue? Did you try on various > browsers? > > My experience is that JavaScript works differently on every browser;) Not only > because of differences or ambiguity in implementing JavaScript or DOM but > also due to a number of bugs in any browser. Eventually, we'll get support added for other browsers. My preffered order for adding browser support is Opera, Internet Exploder (er, Explorer ;-) and Safari. Then any others. In case it's not obvious, I'm a huge fan of the "Any Browser Campaign," http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/ I'm truly hoping there's a day when lynx will support JavaScript. :P Anyway, for now official Atomic OS development is exclusively aimed at Mozilla Firefox 1.5 or better. -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 00:40:08 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:40:08 -0400 Subject: [OT] Are there any JavaScript User Groups in Southern Ontario? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0609211725t16c11a2cncb8b8fb367a8cec9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0609201318i6d8e3171reb08ef203640b18f@mail.gmail.com> <200609212002.02385.softquake@gmail.com> <99a6c38f0609211725t16c11a2cncb8b8fb367a8cec9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200609212040.08351.softquake@gmail.com> On Thursday 21 September 2006 20:25, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > My experience is that JavaScript works differently on every browser;) Not > > only because of differences or ambiguity in implementing JavaScript or > > DOM but also due to a number of bugs in any browser. > > Eventually, we'll get support added for other browsers. My preffered > order for adding browser support is Opera, Internet Exploder (er, > Explorer ;-) and Safari. Then any others. The newest version of Opera has a great debugging tool. And not only for javascript. Check it out if you did not yet. > In case it's not obvious, I'm a huge fan of the "Any Browser > Campaign," http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/ > > I'm truly hoping there's a day when lynx will support JavaScript. :P ;) Lets leave Lynx to evolve in its own way;) Some things are impossible. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 00:51:08 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:51:08 -0400 Subject: FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD In-Reply-To: <451316EE.1090607-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1158859376.3895.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <451316EE.1090607@telly.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0609211751l7b5f289an37107fd92e0e9f78@mail.gmail.com> On 9/21/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > Convicted monopolist Microsoft sponsored IDC research shows that the > > launch of Windows Vista will precipitate cascading economic benefits. > > Installing patches and re imaging hard drives thought by some to boost > > job opportunities. > > > > http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1000097 > > > > I wish that folks thought a little more when tossing the term FUD > around. Using it to describe anything a competitor says that one doesn't > like helps neither the LJ writer nor the word. And this instance is > _clearly_ not FUD. Personally, I see Microsoft's move as nothing more than a simple marketing tactic. A weapon - armed, locked, and loaded on those who focus in on their FUD. What used to be a primary effect ("Woo - This research company says Microsoft continues to rule our economy....") has become a secondary effect. Some companies may still buy that, but M$ knows better. They know companies are listening for alternatives (because the _still_ don't control the internet - or at least the web.) The new "primary effect" is to cause those who "spot fud" to "cry wolf" and then use the ensuing confusion to "further explain" their goals. As always, my $0.02 -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 01:18:20 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:18:20 -0400 Subject: FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD In-Reply-To: <1158859376.3895.13.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1158859376.3895.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <20060921211820.68b519e3.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 13:22:56 -0400 Rick Tomaschuk got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Convicted monopolist Microsoft sponsored IDC research shows that the > launch of Windows Vista will precipitate cascading economic benefits. > Installing patches and re imaging hard drives thought by some to boost > job opportunities. Ya, and eating babies would solve the hunger crisis ;-) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 /////////////////////////// "People should not be afraid of their Government, the Government should be afraid of the People." -- V. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 01:32:57 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:32:57 -0400 Subject: FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD In-Reply-To: <451316EE.1090607-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1158859376.3895.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <451316EE.1090607@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060921213257.6bc67536.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:49:18 -0400 Evan Leibovitch got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > It's not a lie, or even a nasty rumour, that if the upgrade does not > exist, the IT industry will lose out. It is most certainly a lie. MS is presenting this POS as if it will be of net benefit to the economy. Nothing could be further from the truth. This is akin to the Nuclear Lobby claiming their energy is 'clean', despite the thousands of _dead lakes_ that dot our country from the mining of Uranium. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 /////////////////////////// "People should not be afraid of their Government, the Government should be afraid of the People." -- V. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 01:35:55 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:35:55 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <45130A0A.6090600-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> Message-ID: <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Thursday 21 September 2006 17:54, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Mandriva's package management system is getting worse, not better. Which one and how is it getting worse? They have more than one. I've always liked urpmi and thought it was a highly underrated package management system. With the acquisition of Connectiva, they also got SmartPM, which I'm using now on Fedora Core 5. It seems all right. > Their shot at a live/install system, Mandriva One, fails to > impress. Besides the technical issues, recent management changes > (ie, a nasty parting of ways with founder Gael Duval) have led to > an attitude more like Red Hat and Novell than what > Mandriva/Mandrake has traditionally offered. As a result they're > putting more distance between the for-pay versions and the free > ones. I can't fault the management of Mandriva for wanting to make money, especially in light of the company's near death experience couple of years ago. They are criticized if they don't make money and end up in bankruptcy protection but then are criticized when they try to make money by differentiating their free product from the product for which they charge money. I haven't seen this distance you're talking about increase. They have always had versions that were not offered for free but the free version wasn't lacking anything that other free distros offered. > By contrast, the commitment that there will only ever be one > "level" of Ubuntu, identical for commercial or free use, offers > significant appeal. And the one feature that I liked best about > Mandriva at the time that Colin and I wrote the for the TuxMag > shootout a few months ago -- the PLF repository -- is now available > for Ubuntu. How long it will remain so is not clear. See: . > I may yet stay with Mandriva -- kubuntu may turn out to have > "idiosyncrasies" of its own -- but I'd like to evaluate some > alternatives before settling in for another few years. I have been a Mandrake/Mandriva user for years. Until a month ago, I was running it on my laptop, which I use as my primary development/working environment. I went through a flurry of trying different distros because Mandriva 2006 that I had been using on that machine for the last year didn't support an external LCD projector at all. Apparently, it was because twinhead support in the version of X that shipped with 2006 was broken. I was surprised at how bad and fiddly twinhead configuration on X turned out to be. I ended up with FC5 not because I liked it but because it was the only one, out of Mandriva 2006, Mandriva 2007b2, Kubuntu (the latest, whatever that is - I can't keep the cutesy animal names straight), and Fedora Core 5, that worked, well, sort of and not without rough edges. It was interesting to note that the Windows users at the conference I attended also didn't have a smooth ride with their laptops and LCD projectors. The Apple equipment, as can be expected, seemed to work without any fuss. > Re-install > time is the best time to do a look around and re-survey the > landscape. Heck, I might even be ready for Gentoo, if it can handle > laptop issues such as wireless networking, battery power and > hibernation... I never use hibernation or any form of sleep mode on laptops with Linux or Windows because I've never found it to be without problems. The wake up time is often longer than boot time so I failed to see the attraction. I'd rather have something that boots quickly from a cold start. As for Gentoo, I have it running on a few servers. I'm impressed by how fast a Gentoo box boots and by its package management system. There was a recent Linux Journal article about creating Gentoo packages and it seemed to be a very clean and straightforward process. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 01:39:52 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:39:52 -0400 Subject: FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD In-Reply-To: <20060921213257.6bc67536.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <1158859376.3895.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <451316EE.1090607@telly.org> <20060921213257.6bc67536.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0609211839p710a8c73iff0377c872c3b346@mail.gmail.com> On 9/21/06, JoeHill wrote: [...] > JoeHill / RLU #282046 > /////////////////////////// > "People should not be afraid of their Government, the Government should be > afraid of the People." -- V. Just noticed. Nice sig. -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 03:07:23 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 23:07:23 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Which one and how is it getting worse? The GUI front end to urpmi that serves as the "software management" component of Mandriva's Control Centre. > They have more than one. I've always liked urpmi and thought it was a highly underrated package management system. A few years ago, urpmi was truly best of class. Now, others have caught up. The Kubuntu system, with its parallel downloads and an update notification service in the KDE panel, is IMO clearly better. > I can't fault the management of Mandriva for wanting to make money, especially in light of the company's near death experience couple of years ago. The pulled out of bankruptcy using the old business model; now they just strive to be a Red Hat wannabe. Now you need to buy a boxed set or a paid Club membership just to have access to free-but-proprietary RPMs such as winmodem drivers and Acrobat. I don't think Red Hat keeps those packages away from Fedora. > They are criticized if they don't make money and end up in bankruptcy protection but then are criticized when they try to make money by differentiating their free product from the product for which they charge money. If the difference is that the paid version includes Acrobat, Flash and the free version does not, that's hardly a differentiation. Withholding free-as-in-beer software from the free version is dumb. > They have always had versions that were not offered for free but the free version wasn't lacking anything that other free distros offered. > That's changed. If you don't have a paid club membership or a boxed set, getting stuff as simple as Flash becomes an unnecessary pain. >> By contrast, the commitment that there will only ever be one >> "level" of Ubuntu, identical for commercial or free use, offers >> significant appeal. And the one feature that I liked best about >> Mandriva at the time that Colin and I wrote the for the TuxMag >> shootout a few months ago -- the PLF repository -- is now available >> for Ubuntu. >> > > How long it will remain so is not clear. See: . > That mail just says they're looking for volunteers and the original person has stepped down. I note that this URL is an email on the "Ubuntu-PLF_discuss" mailing list. > I have been a Mandrake/Mandriva user for years. Until a month ago, I was running it on my laptop, which I use as my primary development/working environment. I went through a flurry of trying different distros because Mandriva 2006 that I had been using on that machine for the last year didn't support an external LCD projector at all. Apparently, it was because twinhead support in the version of X that shipped with 2006 was broken. Ironically, I never had a problem with that on my Mandriva-equipped Thinkpad T42. Just kept pressing Fn-F12 until the right combination of output came up. To each their own, I guess :-) > As for Gentoo, I have it running on a few servers. I suspected it was great for that. What's it like on the desktop? Thanks for the info. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 10:42:08 2006 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:42:08 +0800 Subject: OT: Linux running 32 and 64 Message-ID: <200609211842.08398.jerome@gmanmi.tv> hi all, does anyone know of a site the did a benchmark on 32bit vs 64bit processors? and dual core vs 2 single core processors? thanks, Mailing-List -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 21 22:43:45 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 23:43:45 +0100 Subject: OT: Linux running 32 and 64 In-Reply-To: <200609211842.08398.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200609211842.08398.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <451315A1.1060006@utoronto.ca> JM wrote: > hi all, > > does anyone know of a site the did a benchmark on 32bit vs 64bit processors? > and dual core vs 2 single core processors? This might help, I posted it a few weeks back: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug/28199/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 04:33:28 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 00:33:28 -0400 Subject: FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD In-Reply-To: <20060921213257.6bc67536.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <1158859376.3895.13.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <451316EE.1090607@telly.org> <20060921213257.6bc67536.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1158899608.2815.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-09-21 at 21:32 -0400, JoeHill wrote: > It is most certainly a lie. MS is presenting this POS as if it will be of net > benefit to the economy. Nothing could be further from the truth. > > This is akin to the Nuclear Lobby claiming their energy is 'clean', despite the > thousands of _dead lakes_ that dot our country from the mining of Uranium. It's not just MS that does this. Most of the hardware vendors rely on this for continuing income, both at the high end (Intel/AMD) and on the street. They need bigger, hungrier software to force an upgrade and sell more units. When we were an MCSP (MS Certified Solution Provider), MS would send us marketing material. I clearly remember two different sheets, one that gave me "facts" for my customers and another that was designed to convince me to continue to sel MS. There was one contradicting "fact" that stood out. We were told to tell the consumer that MS solutions would save them money by delivering lower TCO. MS told us that it would provide more ongoing licensing, installation, support and training revenue for us. The message was clear, we started focusing on Linux rather than lie to our customers. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 06:28:13 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 08:28:13 +0200 Subject: Hydro One connection? Message-ID: Anyone got a Hydro One connection? Are they at 151 Front Street or is it at College/University? They seem to start at 2Mbp and are probably very expensive. But if your setting up a new connection for a larger business, it might be good to know. They must have hundreds of miles of dark fibre(fibre that is unlit ie. unused) in Toronto by now. One thing is for sure...if you go with HydroOne, your ISP will always have power. Just wondering. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 15:04:13 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:04:13 -0400 Subject: Hydro One connection? In-Reply-To: <4513827D.7090003-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <4513827D.7090003@knet.ca> Message-ID: <20060922150413.GQ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 22, 2006 at 08:28:13AM +0200, Teddy David Mills wrote: > Anyone got a Hydro One connection? > Are they at 151 Front Street or is it at College/University? > They seem to start at 2Mbp and are probably very expensive. > But if your setting up a new connection for a larger business, it might > be good to know. > They must have hundreds of miles of dark fibre(fibre that is unlit ie. > unused) in Toronto by now. > One thing is for sure...if you go with HydroOne, your ISP will always > have power. Are you sure about that? It seemed an awful lot of places including the utilities had lost power during that well remembered august day. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 15:15:58 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:15:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hydro One connection? In-Reply-To: <20060922150413.GQ13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4513827D.7090003@knet.ca> <20060922150413.GQ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Sep 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Sep 22, 2006 at 08:28:13AM +0200, Teddy David Mills wrote: >> Anyone got a Hydro One connection? >> Are they at 151 Front Street or is it at College/University? >> They seem to start at 2Mbp and are probably very expensive. >> But if your setting up a new connection for a larger business, it might >> be good to know. >> They must have hundreds of miles of dark fibre(fibre that is unlit ie. >> unused) in Toronto by now. >> One thing is for sure...if you go with HydroOne, your ISP will always >> have power. > > Are you sure about that? It seemed an awful lot of places including the > utilities had lost power during that well remembered august day. :) I wouldn't call it an august day. It was, however, an August day. ;) -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 15:43:20 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:43:20 -0400 Subject: Hydro One connection? In-Reply-To: References: <4513827D.7090003@knet.ca> <20060922150413.GQ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45140498.3010102@telly.org> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> Are you sure about that? It seemed an awful lot of places including the >> utilities had lost power during that well remembered august day. :) > > I wouldn't call it an august day. > > It was, however, an August day. It sure was strange, even from a distance. My LPI work had taken me out of town during the time it happened; reading quotes from Mel Lastman in Hanoi's English-language newspaper (let alone watching sound-bites of him blaming the Americans on CNN's international service) was truly surreal. I still have the clip of Mel's tirade, as it appeared (and was appropriately dissected) on the Daily Show. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 16:16:46 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:16:46 -0400 Subject: Hydro One connection? In-Reply-To: References: <4513827D.7090003@knet.ca> <20060922150413.GQ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Fri, 22 Sep 2006, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> On Fri, Sep 22, 2006 at 08:28:13AM +0200, Teddy David Mills wrote: >>> Anyone got a Hydro One connection? >>> Are they at 151 Front Street or is it at College/University? >>> They seem to start at 2Mbp and are probably very expensive. >>> But if your setting up a new connection for a larger business, it might >>> be good to know. >>> They must have hundreds of miles of dark fibre(fibre that is unlit ie. >>> unused) in Toronto by now. >>> One thing is for sure...if you go with HydroOne, your ISP will always >>> have power. >> >> Are you sure about that? It seemed an awful lot of places including the >> utilities had lost power during that well remembered august day. :) > > I wouldn't call it an august day. > > It was, however, an August day. On the contrary -- it truly was an august August day. Clear blue skies, warm, and no work for many. Indeed, the evening and night were marked by an august August sky. Being from Barrie I take clear(ish) skies for granted. Many people remember the clear skies over Toronto above all else though. Truly I say to you, it was an august August day and night. You besmirch the majesty of the revealed night sky, a day of leisure and rest, and the memories thereof! Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 16:28:46 2006 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:28:46 -0400 Subject: Hydro One connection? In-Reply-To: References: <4513827D.7090003@knet.ca> <20060922150413.GQ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <45140F3E.9000904@alteeve.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Truly I say to you, it was an august August day and night. > > You besmirch the majesty of the revealed night sky, a day of leisure and > rest, and the memories thereof! > > Jamon Hear, Hear! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 16:30:30 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:30:30 -0400 Subject: Hydro One connection? In-Reply-To: <45140498.3010102-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4513827D.7090003@knet.ca> <20060922150413.GQ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <45140498.3010102@telly.org> Message-ID: <45140FA6.3040708@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >>> Are you sure about that? It seemed an awful lot of places including the >>> utilities had lost power during that well remembered august day. :) >> I wouldn't call it an august day. >> >> It was, however, an August day. > > It sure was strange, even from a distance. My LPI work had taken me out > of town during the time it happened; reading quotes from Mel Lastman in > Hanoi's English-language newspaper (let alone watching sound-bites of > him blaming the Americans on CNN's international service) was truly surreal. > > I still have the clip of Mel's tirade, as it appeared (and was > appropriately dissected) on the Daily Show. I remember that day well. I had to rough it and use dial up internet access. ;-) On that day, I left work around 4, got some gas & car wash and was just a few blocks from the gas station, when the radio station I was listening to went silent. I then noticed the traffic lights were out and other radio stations were also gone. I then arrived home just in time to hear my UPS die. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 16:18:51 2006 From: paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org (Paul Nash) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:18:51 -0400 Subject: Hydro One connection? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If their wifi network is anything to go by, run, do not walk, to the competition :-). Don't buy power from a computer company, Don't buy networks from a power company. paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 18:06:07 2006 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:06:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: QmailAdmin and cracklib-dicts? Message-ID: <25995.72.38.22.170.1158948367.squirrel@72.38.22.170> Hey all, I noticed at an webhost I was using the other week that they had configured QmailAdmin to pre-check the passwords used to create email accounts. I'd like to add that functionality to my qmail server. Does anyone know how this is done. There is no info on this at http://www.qmail.org or from the qmailadmin page at http://www.inter7.com/?page=qmailadmin Any thoughts on where I should look next? Thanks, Stephen -- Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA Tel: (905) 627-1302 x14 Fax: (905) 627-5022 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 18:24:43 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (paul sutton) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 18:24:43 +0000 Subject: Fud, Fud and Fud et al In-Reply-To: <1158864874.3895.27.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <4512D95F.6020901@rogers.com> <1158864874.3895.27.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <45142A6B.1090404@zleap.net> With the all-you-can eat model, we think this becomes compelling when paired with discovery," Jubelirer said, referring to the sharing of music between Zunes. "With a couple of buddies who own Zunes, you can grow and expand your musical tastes and collection far beyond what you previously imagined." It seems the potential for abuse and sharing of copyrighted material is here at last, condoned by microsoft, It's going to happen, and I hope the Music association of america (or what ever they are called), aim their lawsuits at MIcrosoft and not the people just taking advantag of this, what about security, perhaps this is a reason apple left out this feature, to stop such abuses. Ok time to concentrate and promote what Linux is good at, there are plenty of 3rd party mp3 players out there, Amarok works with mp3 players, so we asa a community need to promote the interoperability with these devices, and perhaps ipods, it will be interesting to see if it's possible to use zunes with Linux. Not that I would buy one and give Microsoft more money of course. Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 22 23:52:42 2006 From: erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Erebus) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 23:52:42 +0000 Subject: Playing videos In-Reply-To: References: <4506D1E3.1090902@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4514774A.3000905@rogers.com> OK. Here's the thing. I can watch MPEGs (stored on my hard drive) in Kaffeine (I'm running Kubuntu 6.06) but when I go to run: 1) .avi's - It says that it is running but nothing is visible on the screen (it's like a totally black video when Kaffeine shows it) 2) .asf's - it says "A problem occur while loading a library or a decoder: wmvdmod.dll" 3) Realmedia Files - KDE asks which app to use to run this file type and I tell it "kaffeine" and then nothing ever happens 4) .wmv's - same error as with .asf's Thanks in advance. Solving this problem would put me another great leap forward towards never needing to use Windows again (my ultimate goal). Frank in Mississauga (a.k.a. Erebus) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 23 02:07:18 2006 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 22:07:18 -0400 Subject: Playing videos In-Reply-To: <4514774A.3000905-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4506D1E3.1090902@alteeve.com> <4514774A.3000905@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200609222207.19530.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On Friday 22 September 2006 19:52, Erebus wrote: > OK. Here's the thing. I can watch MPEGs (stored on my hard drive) in > Kaffeine (I'm running Kubuntu 6.06) but when I go to run: > > 1) .avi's - It says that it is running but nothing is visible on the > screen (it's like a totally black video when Kaffeine shows it) > 2) .asf's - it says "A problem occur while loading a library or a > decoder: wmvdmod.dll" > 3) Realmedia Files - KDE asks which app to use to run this file type and > I tell it "kaffeine" and then nothing ever happens > 4) .wmv's - same error as with .asf's > > Thanks in advance. Solving this problem would put me another great leap > forward towards never needing to use Windows again (my ultimate goal). Use automatix to install the required codecs, and players. vlc Media Player plays all of the above without issues. http://www.getautomatix.com/ What Automatix offers: http://getautomatix.com/wiki/index.php?title=Software_and_Tweaks Easy installation method: add the following to your sources.list deb http://www.getautomatix.com/apt dapper main then run #sudo apt-get install automatix Automatix will show up in your system menu. -- Jason Shein Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 23 02:21:28 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 22:21:28 -0400 Subject: Fud, Fud and Fud et al In-Reply-To: <45142A6B.1090404-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <4512D95F.6020901@rogers.com> <1158864874.3895.27.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45142A6B.1090404@zleap.net> Message-ID: On 9/22/06, paul sutton wrote: > Ok time to concentrate and promote what Linux is good at, there are > plenty of 3rd party mp3 players out there, Amarok works with mp3 > players, so we asa a community need to promote the interoperability > with these devices, and perhaps ipods, it will be interesting to see if > it's possible to use zunes with Linux. Not that I would buy one and > give Microsoft more money of course. On that note, I rather delight in using some of the fine M$ branded peripherals, as they are usually of excellent quality, and M$ consistently /looses/ money on 'em. I find the likelhood of converts by branding is as is similar to the M$ adverts, on sourceforge. I even considered using Xboxs. djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 23 04:31:49 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 00:31:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Toronto Linux Job Market In-Reply-To: References: <44FC76B5.3070208@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Sep 2006, Jason Spiro wrote: Sorry for the delay in responding. I offer as my excuse that I was busy doing Linux admin :) > Where would you recommend I look to find out about part-time > junior-level Linux positions? I am looking for something basic like Part-time junior - that's a tricky one. One good trick at a junior level is to do volunteer work. Smaller companies and lots of others will consider this. One of two things tends to happen: 1. The place likes you and manages to fund a position (P/T or F/T). Don't expect this to happen really quickly. 2. The experience gained + references gets you a foot in the door somewhere else. A friend of mine was doing a non-University IT course in Australia but it was too MS-Windows centric. I suggested he needed some Unix experience to round out how IT education and to put him ahead of the crowd. I got him a volunteer spot at the place I was working at the time (a small IT consultancy). After about 18 months he landed a really nice job and hasn't looked back since. I've been noticing a lot of Linux kernel dev jobs coming up too. *hint* *hint* :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 23 10:56:49 2006 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 06:56:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: QmailAdmin and cracklib-dicts? In-Reply-To: <25995.72.38.22.170.1158948367.squirrel-u5iS8elThxsi7FR4L9eesA@public.gmane.org> References: <25995.72.38.22.170.1158948367.squirrel@72.38.22.170> Message-ID: <45318.66.11.182.5.1159009009.squirrel@canuckster.org> > Hey all, > > I noticed at an webhost I was using the other week that they had > configured QmailAdmin to pre-check the passwords used to create email > accounts. I'd like to add that functionality to my qmail server. Does > anyone know how this is done. There is no info on this at > http://www.qmail.org or from the qmailadmin page at > http://www.inter7.com/?page=qmailadmin > > Any thoughts on where I should look next? > Thanks, > > Stephen Email them and ask them how they did it. > > -- > Stephen W. Clarke > Marketing and Communications Officer > Nray Services Inc. > 56A Head Street > Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 > CANADA > > Tel: (905) 627-1302 x14 > Fax: (905) 627-5022 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 23 11:42:38 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 07:42:38 -0400 Subject: Toronto Linux Job Market In-Reply-To: References: <44FC76B5.3070208@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <45151DAE.4020607@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > Sorry for the delay in responding. I offer as my excuse that I was busy > doing Linux admin :) A busy Linux admin??? Oh, you must have a lot of Windows users. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 23 17:33:17 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 13:33:17 -0400 Subject: OT: DVD help Message-ID: <45156FDD.2020804@rogers.com> Hi Folk, I have been given the task of migrating the content of 3 mini-dvd discs to a standard sized dvd. I'm new to this so I'm asking for suggestions as to the best app for this purpose. I'm running MEPIS 6.0.6 on an Acer Aspire 5003 with a Turion ML34 and 768 MB ram. TIA John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From transoxania-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 23 18:46:22 2006 From: transoxania-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Ahmad) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 14:46:22 -0400 Subject: Email Image Spam Message-ID: <451580FE.8030601@sympatico.ca> Not really on topic but some users seem to be knowledgeable about spam. For the past few months I have been getting the odd piece of spam using images to circumvent spam filters. Aside from the amusing attempts by these messages to untrain my spam filters with content from books as the plain text it was easy to write a new filter to catch the spam. As soon as I did that I get a new spam message that circumvents the new filter with a bizarre subject "weary of the war" with excerpts from the book Head First "Design Patterns". I read the plain text and although it was simply text ripped from the book it actually made sense to me in the context of my new filter and the new piece of spam. The text was rearranged and was going about patterns that made sense in the context of spam patterns. Honestly, I only put sugar and milk in my nescafe. Now get this, I just spell checked this email and it offered to replace the word nescafe with the word mescaline. I'll bring some coffee to the next lug meeting if anyone wants a cup. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 23 22:21:59 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 18:21:59 -0400 Subject: Playing videos In-Reply-To: <200609222207.19530.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4506D1E3.1090902@alteeve.com> <4514774A.3000905@rogers.com> <200609222207.19530.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: official wiki documentation on what to install to get that stuff working: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 23 23:08:27 2006 From: erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Erebus) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:08:27 +0000 Subject: Playing videos In-Reply-To: <200609222207.19530.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4506D1E3.1090902@alteeve.com> <4514774A.3000905@rogers.com> <200609222207.19530.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <4515BE6B.5040307@rogers.com> Jason Shein wrote: > plays all of the above without issues. > http://www.getautomatix.com/ > > What Automatix offers: > http://getautomatix.com/wiki/index.php?title=Software_and_Tweaks > > Easy installation method: > > add the following to your sources.list > deb http://www.getautomatix.com/apt dapper main > > then run #sudo apt-get install automatix > > Automatix will show up in your system menu. > > > Use automatix to install the required codecs, and players. vlc Media > Player Well, now I have to do a repair/install on my machine because I accidentally hosed my sources.list file (oh boy did I screw it up haha). Frank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 24 20:55:28 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:55:28 -0400 Subject: IBM Redbooks Message-ID: <4516F0C0.9070403@rogers.com> IBM has many Linux "Redbooks" available for download. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 25 11:39:31 2006 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 07:39:31 -0400 Subject: Playing videos In-Reply-To: <4514774A.3000905-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4506D1E3.1090902@alteeve.com> <4514774A.3000905@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4517BFF3.8090006@golden.net> Erebus wrote: > OK. Here's the thing. I can watch MPEGs (stored on my hard drive) in > Kaffeine (I'm running Kubuntu 6.06) but when I go to run: > > 1) .avi's - It says that it is running but nothing is visible on the > screen (it's like a totally black video when Kaffeine shows it) > 2) .asf's - it says "A problem occur while loading a library or a > decoder: wmvdmod.dll" > 3) Realmedia Files - KDE asks which app to use to run this file type > and I tell it "kaffeine" and then nothing ever happens > 4) .wmv's - same error as with .asf's > > Thanks in advance. Solving this problem would put me another great > leap forward towards never needing to use Windows again (my ultimate > goal). > > Frank in Mississauga (a.k.a. Erebus) Down load and install the Easy Ubuntu script. It will give you everything you need. It works with Kubuntu too. http://easyubuntu.freecontrib.org/ John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 25 15:40:25 2006 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Definition: Ohno second (and apology) Message-ID: While posting this month's NewTLUG meeting announcement to the list, as it happened, I was reminded of the dreaded "ohno second". When I post the announcement, I include a list from my newtlug address book of names and address of people who might not otherwise see the announcement. ...the right way to do this is to use the Bcc: field, but, earlier today I screwed up and used the Cc: field. I didn't realize this until the message was already being sent. After a bit of a scramble, I did get pine to stop sending, but I don't know how many messages did get delivered. To those who's addresses were visible on messages that were sent I do apologize, ...sorry. The definition of an ohno second: the length of time between when you press a key and realize that you shouldn't have. -- Herb Richter Toronto, Ontario http://PartsAndService.com http://PartsAndService.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 25 16:13:34 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 16:13:34 +0000 Subject: Uh, oh... Looks like something went "bump" on gtalug.org... Message-ID: GTALUG has a problem Sorry! This site is experiencing technical difficulties. Try waiting a few minutes and reloading. (Can't contact the database server: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (111) (localhost)) -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 25 17:41:40 2006 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:41:40 -0400 Subject: hel[ tracking down two pesky problems Message-ID: <1159206100.14786.12.camel@localhost> Hey, I run Ubuntu Dapper on my Dell Latitude D820, pretty much a vanilla distro except that I use the suspend2-enabled kernels which can be found at various places on the net. Mostly it works great, but I have a couple of irritating problems with I'm now ready to try and deal with. they are: 1) strange screen flickering when screensaver turns on. When the screensaver activates, there are 5-10 seconds of flashing light, suring which the desktop is intermittently visible and can sometimes be seen in inverted colors (white baps to black, and various other colors undergo unsettling trnasformations). About half the time, these colors stay inverted when I deactivate the screensaver. I'm not sure what exactly this bug is related to. It occurs when I run either the free nv or the nonfree nvidia drivers, and whether I choose a blank screen or any of the specificable gnome screensavers. Any ideas what kinds of tests I might run to diagnose the problem? 2) some process grabs /dev/dsp when I suspend/resume. Often (but not always) when I resume, /dev/dsp becomes unavailable. At first I thought this was a driver problem, because there are several bugs in the intel_hda driver that my sound card uses -- it doesn't like to switch back and forth between speakers and headphones, and apparently hte microphone doesn't work that well (haven't tried it). However, I have discovered that access to /dev/dsp is usallky resotred if I log out and log back in again. SO I assume that some process is monopolizing /dev/dsp and is hung. Logging out and in kills the process, so /dev/dsp is available. Since ubuntu uses esd by default, that would be the obvious candidate; but theproblem occurs even when no instance of esd is running. Again, I don't know how to go about diagnosing this. ANy suggestions? Is there some way to check whether a device is being accessed by a process? Thanks as usual, matt -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 25 18:05:23 2006 From: kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kyle O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:05:23 -0400 Subject: hel[ tracking down two pesky problems In-Reply-To: <1159206100.14786.12.camel@localhost> References: <1159206100.14786.12.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <2274b9c30609251105g2e15c74j84a92941ca877bb9@mail.gmail.com> Hi Matt, I've found the same problem with /dev/dsp and have narrowed it down to either firefox and/or mplayerplug-in. --kyleo On 9/25/06, Matt Price wrote: > Hey, > > I run Ubuntu Dapper on my Dell Latitude D820, pretty much a vanilla > distro except that I use the suspend2-enabled kernels which can be found > at various places on the net. > > Mostly it works great, but I have a couple of irritating problems with > I'm now ready to try and deal with. they are: > > 1) strange screen flickering when screensaver turns on. When the > screensaver activates, there are 5-10 seconds of flashing light, suring > which the desktop is intermittently visible and can sometimes be seen in > inverted colors (white baps to black, and various other colors undergo > unsettling trnasformations). About half the time, these colors stay > inverted when I deactivate the screensaver. > > I'm not sure what exactly this bug is related to. It occurs when I run > either the free nv or the nonfree nvidia drivers, and whether I choose a > blank screen or any of the specificable gnome screensavers. Any ideas > what kinds of tests I might run to diagnose the problem? > > 2) some process grabs /dev/dsp when I suspend/resume. Often (but not > always) when I resume, /dev/dsp becomes unavailable. At first I thought > this was a driver problem, because there are several bugs in the > intel_hda driver that my sound card uses -- it doesn't like to switch > back and forth between speakers and headphones, and apparently hte > microphone doesn't work that well (haven't tried it). However, I have > discovered that access to /dev/dsp is usallky resotred if I log out and > log back in again. SO I assume that some process is > monopolizing /dev/dsp and is hung. Logging out and in kills the > process, so /dev/dsp is available. Since ubuntu uses esd by default, > that would be the obvious candidate; but theproblem occurs even when no > instance of esd is running. > > Again, I don't know how to go about diagnosing this. ANy suggestions? > Is there some way to check whether a device is being accessed by a > process? > > Thanks as usual, > > matt > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 25 18:09:36 2006 From: dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org (David Tilbrook) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:09:36 -0400 Subject: Gmail on firefox Message-ID: <45181B60.9060808@qef.com> Due to a disk crash I've had to install fedora and recofig everything in sight. A final problem to be resolved is access to gmail from within firefox. thunderbird is able to send and receive mail, so that's properly configured, but gmail just gives me: "Unable to reach Gmail. Please check your internet connection." I have tried a variety of resolutions but to no avail. Does anyone know how to set the Gmail Settings? -- david P.S.: Due to my head crash, I used CBL Data Recovery Tech. to recover what it could - my mistake. Two of the partitions were uncorrupted, but not after CBL did their bit: - all file modes set to 555, uid 0, gid 0 (although I had been ensured that they would be recovered) - all mtimes set to Sept. 11th, 10:34 or thereabouts - all sym links lost - all hard links lost - created a copy for every link - if files Xfoo and xfoo existed, so long to xfoo - left ..XXXXXX files (usually a copy of all over the system) All in all very unsatisfactory, but it was expensive!!! Anyone know of a unix-aware data recovery service for the next time? -- david -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 25 18:12:07 2006 From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:12:07 -0400 Subject: Publishing note... In-Reply-To: <450058CC.7010708-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060907032155.89704.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <450058CC.7010708@telly.org> Message-ID: <45181BF7.2050800@xtrinsic.com> HELO, The gtalug.org site is down (and with it any potential access to Web-based archives). Out of curiosity...did anything ever become of the writing group idea? regards, emma -- Emma Jane Hogbin, B.Sc. Founder, xtrinsic phone: (519) 371-2665 web: www.xtrinsic.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 25 18:23:08 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hel[ tracking down two pesky problems In-Reply-To: <1159206100.14786.12.camel@localhost> References: <1159206100.14786.12.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Sep 2006, Matt Price wrote: > 2) some process grabs /dev/dsp when I suspend/resume. Often (but not Use fuser and lsof to diagnose what is grabbing the file. My wife is running Ubuntu Dapper on her laptop and she had the a similar problem (in her case it may or may not have been related to suspension). I determined that it was esd which was starting and grabbing /dev/dsp periodically. I suspect some app she was starting was kicking off esd and causing the problem. Tracking down this app was proving difficult so one day I did a chmod a-x on esd as a work around as she wasn't using it for anything anyway. That was about 3 weeks ago and the problem has not occured since I did the chmod. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 25 18:41:06 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:41:06 +0000 Subject: Gmail on firefox In-Reply-To: <45181B60.9060808-hKuJ9UrQZDM@public.gmane.org> References: <45181B60.9060808@qef.com> Message-ID: On 9/25/06, David Tilbrook wrote: > Due to a disk crash I've had to install fedora and recofig > everything in sight. > > A final problem to be resolved is access to gmail from > within firefox. > > thunderbird is able to send and receive mail, so that's > properly configured, but gmail just gives me: > > "Unable to reach Gmail. Please check your > internet connection." > > I have tried a variety of resolutions but to no avail. > > Does anyone know how to set the Gmail Settings? The things that seem special about Gmail in my Thunderbird config... 1. Port is 995 (seems a unique number...) 2. Requires an SSL connection It may just be a matter of going through the Thunderbird config page... http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=38343&topic=1555 -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 25 19:08:25 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:08:25 -0400 Subject: Definition: Ohno second (and apology) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060925150825.4dc3e3e1.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Herb Richter got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > The definition of an ohno second: the length of time between when you > press a key and realize that you shouldn't have. That's pretty much how I feel all the time ;) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 /////////////////////////// "People should not be afraid of their Government, the Government should be afraid of the People." -- V. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 25 19:22:34 2006 From: dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org (David Tilbrook) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:22:34 -0400 Subject: Gmail on firefox In-Reply-To: References: <45181B60.9060808@qef.com> Message-ID: <45182C7A.10800@qef.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On 9/25/06, David Tilbrook wrote: > >> Due to a disk crash I've had to install fedora and recofig >> everything in sight. >> >> A final problem to be resolved is access to gmail from >> within firefox. >> >> thunderbird is able to send and receive mail, so that's >> properly configured, but gmail just gives me: >> >> "Unable to reach Gmail. Please check your >> internet connection." >> >> I have tried a variety of resolutions but to no avail. >> >> Does anyone know how to set the Gmail Settings? > > > The things that seem special about Gmail in my Thunderbird config... > > 1. Port is 995 (seems a unique number...) > > 2. Requires an SSL connection > > It may just be a matter of going through the Thunderbird config page... > > http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=38343&topic=1555 Do you mean that I must set up an additional account in THunderbird? If so how can I use two different SMPT ports as there appears to be only one place to set that port? I tried setting up a Gmail email account with the POP port of 995 but no joy in mudville. -- david -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 25 21:07:53 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:07:53 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <4513536B.6080904-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Sep 21, 2006 at 11:07:23PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote > > As for Gentoo, I have it running on a few servers. > I suspected it was great for that. What's it like on the desktop? Using it and loving it on my desktop. The package-management rocks. Install basic text-console-only setup. I then say "emerge bbkeys". bbkeys is the keyboard config for blackbox WM, so it obviously depends on blackbox. blackbox obviously depends on X, which depends on a whole bunch of other stuff. Portage will figure out the dependancies and pull them in and build them in the right order. So issuing the single command "emerge bbkeys" takes the system from text-mode only to one with a fully functional X gui and WM. Mind you, on an older machine, building X might be an overnight job, but you don't do it very often. With the new modular X, only updated pieces get rebuilt. The package-management can be annoying at times, if it pulls in stuff you didn't want. It's always recommended to do a "--pretend" emerge first, to see if you really want all the optional dependancies it pulls in. There's a very large selection of ebuilds covering just about every package you want. Failing that, you can always compile stuff manually into /usr/local. You can even do your own custom ebuilds, if you want portage to manage the package just like regular ebuilds. In Gentoo, there aren't major version changes, named after different animals. Gentoo's update process is sort of like a "rolling upgrade". If you installed Gentoo 2 years ago, and applied the updates every couple of weeks, today you would have the same system as if you had done a fresh install today. None of this blowing away / and installing fresh. The closest you come to this is during major upgrades to gcc. Going from 3.4.x to 4.1.1 involved a rebuild of all programs, but it's only two commands, and let it run overnight. Gentoo is not perfect, and just like any other distro, there are occasional hiccups. That's what the Gentoo mailing list is for. To excercise the control Gentoo gives you, there are a few extra config files. If you want something that works out of the box, and you'll take someone else's defaults, Ubuntu is OK. Gentoo is for people who want full control. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 00:08:49 2006 From: erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Erebus) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 00:08:49 +0000 Subject: Playing videos In-Reply-To: <200609222207.19530.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4506D1E3.1090902@alteeve.com> <4514774A.3000905@rogers.com> <200609222207.19530.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <45186F91.2000304@rogers.com> Jason Shein wrote: > Use automatix to install the required codecs, and players. vlc Media > Player Did that. Had to reinstall Kubuntu (due to me accidentally trying to add the Automatix repository wrong and then Adept choking on my mis-entry). Wow. Now I can watch all sorts of files and even listen to them! Wow!!!!! Thanks guys for all the help as always. Frank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 00:15:20 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:15:20 -0400 Subject: Playing videos In-Reply-To: <45186F91.2000304-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4506D1E3.1090902@alteeve.com> <4514774A.3000905@rogers.com> <200609222207.19530.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <45186F91.2000304@rogers.com> Message-ID: <45187118.8010802@telly.org> Erebus wrote: >> Use automatix to install the required codecs, and players. vlc Media >> Player > Did that. Had to reinstall Kubuntu (due to me accidentally trying to > add the Automatix repository wrong and then Adept choking on my > mis-entry). Wow. Now I can watch all sorts of files and even listen to > them! Wow!!!!! Can someone please reproduce the sources.list created by Automatix? I'd like to get the files but don't want to install a program to do it (especially since it doesn't yet support edgy). - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 01:36:23 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:36:23 -0400 Subject: At the US border Message-ID: <1159234583.3936.15.camel@spot1.localhost.com> I was crossing the US border Sunday and had a commercial shipment which needed to be processed. The customs officer kept me at the booth for close to a half hour because the system wasn't working properly. He commented that his windows machine was very slow. Eventually I was redirected to another booth where the lady customs officer said: "I hate windows. I want to throw my computer out the window." NO WORD OF A LIE. Don't anyone tell me not to bash Micro$oft since these scumbags affect my life just about everywhere I go!!!! RickT -- "Friends don't let friends use windows. Show a suffering windows user Linux today" http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 01:57:44 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:57:44 -0400 Subject: Gmail on firefox In-Reply-To: <45181B60.9060808-hKuJ9UrQZDM@public.gmane.org> References: <45181B60.9060808@qef.com> Message-ID: > Anyone know of a unix-aware data recovery service for > the next time? > > -- david Rather than anticipating a next time, you should back things up in some way, even if it's just RAID mirroring, or copying to an external drive every now and then, that would save you from needing this sort of expensive service. Sorry that I can't actually answer your question though. Simon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 02:13:07 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:13:07 -0400 Subject: Playing videos In-Reply-To: <45187118.8010802-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4506D1E3.1090902@alteeve.com> <4514774A.3000905@rogers.com> <200609222207.19530.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <45186F91.2000304@rogers.com> <45187118.8010802@telly.org> Message-ID: You don't need any special sources, just add universe and multiverse to your existing dapper, dapper-updates, and possibly dapper-security, I just add all three because I doubt that it would be harmful to me to do so, in any circumstance. I don't have any third party repositories, and I don't think I have trouble playing media files ( I could be wrong... but I do download a lot of clips and whatnot, and I don't recall any issues) I suggest installing the packages mozilla-mplayer, libxine-extracodecs, and w32codecs. I think those are enough to handle everything, but I might be forgetting something. If you like to use totem, I would also get totem-xine, but this is optional. If you use totem-gstreamer, then you'll want to install a bunch of gstreamer plugin packages too. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 02:17:07 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:17:07 -0400 Subject: At the US border In-Reply-To: <1159234583.3936.15.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1159234583.3936.15.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: Yes! I couldn't agree more. My friends don't seem to think it's a big deal that 90% (I think?) of computers, including theirs, are running an subpar OS from a company that has firmly established that they couldn't care less about their users, but it seriously drives me nuts. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 02:23:14 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:23:14 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <20060925210753.GA2495-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: I personally find that there are a lot of things I wouldn't have got working on Gentoo if I hadn't been sure I could do them from having seen them work on Ubuntu. It is impossible to say one is better than the other. Both have problem areas as well as strengths. Not to bash Gentoo, but portage is unacceptably slow. I'm talking about everything except building from source here, it shouldn't take 20 mins to do what apt-get update does in 30 secs, likewise for emerge -S vs apt-cache search or whatever ( I use synaptic mostly ). Also, Ubuntu doesn't have to be blown away for updates, you can dist-upgrade between releases. But, I'm typing this from Gentoo, so don't take it the wrong way. I use Gentoo for its flexibility, basically. And I can write ebuilds, but haven't learned how to make debian packages yet. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 02:30:35 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:30:35 -0400 Subject: Zimbabwe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Despite disliking drugs, I disagree with making them illegal, because it is supporting this black market. Legalising drugs wouldn't solve the drug problem, but it would solve a huge crime problem. As for Zimbabwe, they are under a pretty ridiculous dictatorship at present, to the point where I don't take their government seriously at all; it's sad to watch. On 9/21/06, Randy Jonasz wrote: > > Ah yes, I'm all for coding on cocaine. Is that Xtreme Programing > taken to the, well, extreme? > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 02:34:25 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:34:25 -0400 Subject: xorg and ATI Mach64 (was Serious OO/Debian problem...) In-Reply-To: <450AC790.8070907-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <44B65C7B.5010104@alteeve.com> <44B6C344.3090109@utoronto.ca> <4509E4C9.1060800@interlog.com> <450A1E4B.3060000@utoronto.ca> <450AC790.8070907@interlog.com> Message-ID: Err.. try looking at the output of lspci before opening your box up, it's much quicker, and it works for me. On 9/15/06, Kevin Cozens wrote: > > If you don't have the manuals or driver disks for the video card around > the > only way to know what card you have is to open up the machine, pull the > board, > and look at it. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 02:38:00 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:38:00 -0400 Subject: hel[ tracking down two pesky problems In-Reply-To: References: <1159206100.14786.12.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Gnome uses esd for all of the sound effects, unless this is turned off in the sound preferences (gnome-sound-properties). I'm not sure what else would use esd once that is turned off, but I don't recall seeing esd anywhere once I got gnome to stop using it. On 9/25/06, Robert Brockway wrote: > > I did a chmod a-x on esd as a work around as she wasn't using it for > anything anyway. That was about 3 weeks ago and the problem has not > occured since I did the chmod. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 25 22:38:38 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (paul sutton) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:38:38 +0000 Subject: At the US border In-Reply-To: <1159234583.3936.15.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1159234583.3936.15.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: <45185A6E.4000809@zleap.net> I guess this is a situation where you say you agree, but then state you use Linux which is free (as in freedom) software, and give them a website where they can find out more, and even perhaps the address of the user group so they can join and get help (as a newbie), The secret is more to agree and suggest a viable alternative, that way rather than been seen as another person moaning about MS you actually promote Linux and a real alternative. This way we can slowly but surely convert the masses of dis satisfied customers, show the community is welcoming to all, willing to be helpful etc, and dispel the lies and myths surrounding Linux users, and do our bit to fight the FUD. Lets show the world that we ARE nice people, and gain friends that way. Paul Rick Tomaschuk wrote: >I was crossing the US border Sunday and had a commercial shipment which >needed to be processed. The customs officer kept me at the booth for >close to a half hour because the system wasn't working properly. He >commented that his windows machine was very slow. Eventually I was >redirected to another booth where the lady customs officer said: "I hate >windows. I want to throw my computer out the window." NO WORD OF A LIE. >Don't anyone tell me not to bash Micro$oft since these scumbags affect >my life just about everywhere I go!!!! >RickT > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 03:54:06 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 23:54:06 -0400 Subject: Playing videos In-Reply-To: <45187118.8010802-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4506D1E3.1090902@alteeve.com> <4514774A.3000905@rogers.com> <200609222207.19530.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <45186F91.2000304@rogers.com> <45187118.8010802@telly.org> Message-ID: <4518A45E.7060108@utoronto.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Can someone please reproduce the sources.list created by Automatix? I'd > like to get the files but don't want to install a program to do it > (especially since it doesn't yet support edgy). http://www.ubuntulinux.nl/source-o-matic Like easyurpmi for Mandriva. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 14:35:54 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:35:54 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20060926143554.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 25, 2006 at 10:23:14PM -0400, Simon wrote: > I personally find that there are a lot of things I wouldn't have got working > on Gentoo if I hadn't been sure I could do them from having seen them work > on Ubuntu. It is impossible to say one is better than the other. Both have > problem areas as well as strengths. Not to bash Gentoo, but portage is > unacceptably slow. I'm talking about everything except building from source > here, it shouldn't take 20 mins to do what apt-get update does in 30 secs, > likewise for emerge -S vs apt-cache search or whatever ( I use synaptic > mostly ). Also, Ubuntu doesn't have to be blown away for updates, you can > dist-upgrade between releases. But, I'm typing this from Gentoo, so don't > take it the wrong way. I use Gentoo for its flexibility, basically. And I > can write ebuilds, but haven't learned how to make debian packages yet. Very few distributions have to be blown away to upgrade (and hence the whole need for seperate partitions for everything makes no sense either anymore). I don't even think slackware requires a reinstall of / for every upgrade anymore, although I don't know that for sure. The build everything from source is just a complete absolute waste of time with no gain whatsoever. Waste of time, cpu cycles, electricity and network bandwidth. For making debian packages, look at cdbs, or if you want something less simple, hello-dbs. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 15:05:34 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:05:34 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <20060926143554.GR13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> <20060926143554.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <451941BE.9020101@telly.org> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Very few distributions have to be blown away to upgrade Some are better at this than others. Mandriva is notorious for not having easy upgrade procedures, making a re-install less pain than an upgrade. I sure hope they've fixed that. The dependency facilities of modem package managers should make this easy. Ultimately there should be a single rpm or deb pseudo-package that includes no files of its own, just sufficient dependency requirements that having it installed means you're at (or beyond) a certain release level. > (and hence the whole need for seperate partitions for everything makes no sense either anymore). There are useful reasons for making /tmp or /var separate partitions regardless of upgrade > The build everything from source is just a complete absolute waste of time with no gain whatsoever. Waste of time, cpu cycles, electricity and network bandwidth. > I think the Gentoo community might beg to differ. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 17:16:03 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:16:03 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <451941BE.9020101-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> <20060926143554.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451941BE.9020101@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060926171603.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 11:05:34AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Some are better at this than others. Mandriva is notorious for not > having easy upgrade procedures, making a re-install less pain than an > upgrade. I sure hope they've fixed that. I was never impressed my mandrake/mandriva. > The dependency facilities of modem package managers should make this > easy. Ultimately there should be a single rpm or deb pseudo-package that > includes no files of its own, just sufficient dependency requirements > that having it installed means you're at (or beyond) a certain release > level. Or you just upgrade everything to being current for the release. After all you don't need to install everything, and hence there can't be a package that depends on everything being installed at a specific or higher version. I guess you could make it conflict with all older versions of every package though. > There are useful reasons for making /tmp or /var separate partitions > regardless of upgrade Certainly, but having seperate partitions for a whole bunch of things usualyl causes more trouble than it is worth with a modern distribution. > I think the Gentoo community might beg to differ. That doesn't mean they are right and I am wrong. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 17:35:42 2006 From: kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kyle O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:35:42 -0400 Subject: Playing videos In-Reply-To: <4518A45E.7060108-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4506D1E3.1090902@alteeve.com> <4514774A.3000905@rogers.com> <200609222207.19530.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <45186F91.2000304@rogers.com> <45187118.8010802@telly.org> <4518A45E.7060108@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <2274b9c30609261035h1fd0250t2cee8b673eacea13@mail.gmail.com> I just used this guide: http://easylinux.info/wiki/Ubuntu_dapper --kyleo On 9/25/06, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Can someone please reproduce the sources.list created by Automatix? I'd > > like to get the files but don't want to install a program to do it > > (especially since it doesn't yet support edgy). > > http://www.ubuntulinux.nl/source-o-matic > > Like easyurpmi for Mandriva. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 17:40:00 2006 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:40:00 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <451941BE.9020101-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> <20060926143554.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451941BE.9020101@telly.org> Message-ID: On 9/26/06, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > The dependency facilities of modem package managers should make this > easy. Ultimately there should be a single rpm or deb pseudo-package that > includes no files of its own, just sufficient dependency requirements > that having it installed means you're at (or beyond) a certain release > level. Is that not part of the promise of the "smart" package manager ? http://labix.org/smart djp -- djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org www.linuxcaffe.ca geek chic and caffe cachet 326 Harbord Street, Toronto, M6G 3A5, (416) 534-2116 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 19:51:03 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:51:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Publishing note... In-Reply-To: <45181BF7.2050800-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <45181BF7.2050800@xtrinsic.com> Message-ID: <20060926195103.28177.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > HELO, > > The gtalug.org site is down (and with it any > potential access to > Web-based archives). Out of curiosity...did anything > ever become of the > writing group idea? Told Drew Sullivan (who owns the site) about the problem with gtalug.org to his face last evening, not sure what is wrong/when it will be fixed, but the right person has been told. Nothing much happened re: the writing group idea, but I will try to kick start it in a few days (need to finish a review for Tux Magazine first). Have had two articles rejected over the past month, one for Tux Magazine, and one for a planned Tux Magazine spin-off. The first article has found another home already mind you (it is on SpamAssassin and is to appear in a future issue (I don't know when) of Linux Journal). Got word on the other rejection (an article on Procmail) and I have started that circulating elsewhere (starting with Linux Journal). So, we shall see... So, for a writers group I am interested in "intelligence" as in which tech. publishers are buying what, and how much are they paying :-) . Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 20:02:45 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:02:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Publishing note... In-Reply-To: <20060926195103.28177.qmail-57gzaD/7YRGB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <45181BF7.2050800@xtrinsic.com> <20060926195103.28177.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50315.207.188.88.64.1159300965.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > So, for a writers group I am interested in > "intelligence" as in which tech. publishers are buying > what, and how much are they paying :-) . > > Colin. I've had several articles published in Circuit Cellar. The material they publish is usually a mix of hardware and software, and they are Linux friendly. The rate of pay is about $100 per page and they pay fairly promptly. How does this rate of pay compare with other magazines? It strikes me that it would be a tough way to make a living, but it's a nice source of 'mad money'. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 20:41:45 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:41:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: At the US border In-Reply-To: <45185A6E.4000809-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <1159234583.3936.15.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45185A6E.4000809@zleap.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Sep 2006, paul sutton wrote: > I guess this is a situation where you say you agree, but then state you use > Linux which is free (as in freedom) software, and give them a website where I've done this before. In many cases the person has responded that they did not know alternatives existed (sometimes adding "except for Mac"). Slowly but surely we get the word out there. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 22:14:13 2006 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (david thornton) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 23:14:13 +0100 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <20060925210753.GA2495-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4519A635.1050503@quadratic.net> Walter Dnes wrote: >On Thu, Sep 21, 2006 at 11:07:23PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote > > > >>>As for Gentoo, I have it running on a few servers. >>> >>> >>I suspected it was great for that. What's it like on the desktop? >> >> > > Using it and loving it on my desktop. The package-management rocks. >Install basic text-console-only setup. I then say "emerge bbkeys". >bbkeys is the keyboard config for blackbox WM, so it obviously depends >on blackbox. blackbox obviously depends on X, which depends on a whole >bunch of other stuff. Portage will figure out the dependancies and pull >them in and build them in the right order. So issuing the single >command "emerge bbkeys" takes the system from text-mode only to one with >a fully functional X gui and WM. Mind you, on an older machine, building >X might be an overnight job, but you don't do it very often. With the >new modular X, only updated pieces get rebuilt. > > The package-management can be annoying at times, if it pulls in stuff >you didn't want. It's always recommended to do a "--pretend" emerge >first, to see if you really want all the optional dependancies it pulls >in. There's a very large selection of ebuilds covering just about every >package you want. Failing that, you can always compile stuff manually >into /usr/local. You can even do your own custom ebuilds, if you want >portage to manage the package just like regular ebuilds. > > In Gentoo, there aren't major version changes, named after different >animals. Gentoo's update process is sort of like a "rolling upgrade". >If you installed Gentoo 2 years ago, and applied the updates every >couple of weeks, today you would have the same system as if you had done >a fresh install today. None of this blowing away / and installing >fresh. The closest you come to this is during major upgrades to gcc. >Going from 3.4.x to 4.1.1 involved a rebuild of all programs, but it's >only two commands, and let it run overnight. > > Gentoo is not perfect, and just like any other distro, there are >occasional hiccups. That's what the Gentoo mailing list is for. To >excercise the control Gentoo gives you, there are a few extra config >files. If you want something that works out of the box, and you'll take >someone else's defaults, Ubuntu is OK. Gentoo is for people who want >full control. > > > Bump Gentoo = great All the coolness of linux + all the smarts of Freebsd Sigh, oh for gentoo at my workplace. David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 22:36:20 2006 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (david thornton) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 23:36:20 +0100 Subject: Fud, Fud and Fud et al In-Reply-To: <45142A6B.1090404-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <4512D95F.6020901@rogers.com> <1158864874.3895.27.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45142A6B.1090404@zleap.net> Message-ID: <4519AB64.2080201@quadratic.net> paul sutton wrote: > With the all-you-can eat model, we think this becomes compelling when > paired with discovery," Jubelirer said, referring to the sharing of > music between Zunes. "With a couple of buddies who own Zunes, you can > grow and expand your musical tastes and collection far beyond what you > previously imagined." > > It seems the potential for abuse and sharing of copyrighted material > is here at last, condoned by microsoft, It's going to happen, and > I hope the Music association of america (or what ever they are > called), aim their lawsuits at MIcrosoft and not the people just > taking advantag of this, what about security, > > perhaps this is a reason apple left out this feature, to stop such > abuses. > Ok time to concentrate and promote what Linux is good at, there are > plenty of 3rd party mp3 players out there, Amarok works with mp3 > players, so we asa a community need to promote the interoperability > with these devices, and perhaps ipods, it will be interesting to see > if it's possible to use zunes with Linux. Not that I would buy one > and give Microsoft more money of course. > > Paul > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists you can share tunes "with your buddies" using itunes, you can't take a copy for your self , but you can share. Dunno if that's a violation. IANAL (I am not a lawyer) and sometimes IORAL (I only resemble a lampshade) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 22:56:45 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 18:56:45 -0400 Subject: Zimbabwe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060926185645.1aba4b5a.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:14:49 -0400 Randy Jonasz got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Ah yes, I'm all for coding on cocaine. I just assumed all coders were cokeheads anyhow. It would explain a *lot* ;) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 /////////////////////////// "People should not be afraid of their Government, the Government should be afraid of the People." -- V. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 26 23:24:46 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 19:24:46 -0400 Subject: Fud, Fud and Fud et al In-Reply-To: <4519AB64.2080201-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4512D95F.6020901@rogers.com> <1158864874.3895.27.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45142A6B.1090404@zleap.net> <4519AB64.2080201@quadratic.net> Message-ID: <20060926192446.3e5917c3.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 23:36:20 +0100 david thornton got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > and sometimes IORAL (I only resemble a lampshade) ROFL! Is it comedy night on here? -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 /////////////////////////// "People should not be afraid of their Government, the Government should be afraid of the People." -- V. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 00:51:32 2006 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 26 Sep 2006 20:51:32 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <20060926171603.GS13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> <20060926143554.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451941BE.9020101@telly.org> <20060926171603.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Lennart Sorensen writes: > On Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 11:05:34AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > There are useful reasons for making /tmp or /var separate partitions > > regardless of upgrade > > Certainly, but having seperate partitions for a whole bunch of things > usualyl causes more trouble than it is worth with a modern distribution. How so? I think it depends on usage. For a notebook/desktop user coming from Windows, a single large partition is probably easier to understand. For a server, a single large partition reduces manageability, security, and reliability IMO. Personally, I use LVM on everything, even notebooks. For desktops and servers I use LVM on RAID. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 01:02:03 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 21:02:03 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> <20060926143554.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451941BE.9020101@telly.org> <20060926171603.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 26 Sep 2006 20:51:32 -0400, Tim Writer wrote: > Lennart Sorensen writes: > > > On Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 11:05:34AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > > There are useful reasons for making /tmp or /var separate partitions > > > regardless of upgrade > > > > Certainly, but having seperate partitions for a whole bunch of things > > usualyl causes more trouble than it is worth with a modern distribution. > > How so? I think it depends on usage. For a notebook/desktop user coming > from Windows, a single large partition is probably easier to understand. > For a server, a single large partition reduces manageability, security, and > reliability IMO. Somewhere between those, having /home as a separate partition has the considerable merit of allowing a reinstall of the whole "system" without forcibly destroying Your Files. More partitions is more to track, which may or may not be worthwhile... > Personally, I use LVM on everything, even notebooks. For desktops and > servers I use LVM on RAID. I haven't yet used LVM. I probably should, some time, but perhaps I'm too much of a luddite to see the merits ;-). -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 01:09:32 2006 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Mike Oliver) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 18:09:32 -0700 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> <20060926143554.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451941BE.9020101@telly.org> <20060926171603.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4519CF4C.2010308@mathstat.yorku.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > Somewhere between those, having /home as a separate partition has the > considerable merit of allowing a reinstall of the whole "system" > without forcibly destroying Your Files. Not to mention letting you try out multiple distros, and use your personal document files from all of them. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 01:17:23 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 21:17:23 -0400 Subject: Publishing note... In-Reply-To: <50315.207.188.88.64.1159300965.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <45181BF7.2050800@xtrinsic.com> <20060926195103.28177.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <50315.207.188.88.64.1159300965.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0609261817h5ba4f120g79a469c525592046@mail.gmail.com> On 9/26/06, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > So, for a writers group I am interested in > > "intelligence" as in which tech. publishers are buying > > what, and how much are they paying :-) . > > > > Colin. > > I've had several articles published in Circuit Cellar. The material they > publish is usually a mix of hardware and software, and they are Linux > friendly. The rate of pay is about $100 per page and they pay fairly > promptly. > > How does this rate of pay compare with other magazines? It strikes me that > it would be a tough way to make a living, but it's a nice source of 'mad > money'. Not sure if this is going off-topic or not... I've been offered help before on an article for Atomic OS (back when it was still WAJAX). To be honest though, and even though I can't write worth s*IT, I'd like to do a series of articles on how to work with Atomic. Quite frankly, the wider the audience, the better for everyone. IOW, I'd love to hear from any potential co-authors that might be able to help me. I'm all for a TLUG writers guild. ;-) -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 01:24:37 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 21:24:37 -0400 Subject: Fud, Fud and Fud et al In-Reply-To: <20060926192446.3e5917c3.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4512D95F.6020901@rogers.com> <1158864874.3895.27.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45142A6B.1090404@zleap.net> <4519AB64.2080201@quadratic.net> <20060926192446.3e5917c3.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0609261824w3acc0f44h28b168cd258317be@mail.gmail.com> On 9/26/06, JoeHill wrote: > On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 23:36:20 +0100 > david thornton got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > > and sometimes IORAL (I only resemble a lampshade) > > ROFL! Is it comedy night on here? LOL. =) Laughing is good for the soul, so bring it on! ;-) -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 01:28:31 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 21:28:31 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <451941BE.9020101-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> <20060926143554.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451941BE.9020101@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060926212831.53619c9a.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:05:34 -0400 Evan Leibovitch got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Some are better at this than others. Mandriva is notorious for not > having easy upgrade procedures, making a re-install less pain than an > upgrade. I sure hope they've fixed that. I tend to be very conservative in this area: I never upgrade unless there's something I absolutely must have. However, I have interacted with many on the Mandriva lists who do a 'urpmi --auto-select' every day with no issues. I know for certain that for many of them, this is their 'main' desktop box, so unless they're lying or utterly insane, it looks like it's gotten a lot better. I'm definitely gonna try it with 2007: http://qa.mandriva.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/MandrivaLinux2007ReleaseNotes Whoa. I'd love to try Gentoo, but I got these two kids, and a job to find... ;) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 /////////////////////////// "People should not be afraid of their Government, the Government should be afraid of the People." -- V. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 01:50:34 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 21:50:34 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: References: <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> <20060926143554.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451941BE.9020101@telly.org> <20060926171603.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060927015034.GA8954@wp.magstar.net> On Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 08:51:32PM -0400, Tim Writer wrote: > Lennart Sorensen writes: > > > On Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 11:05:34AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > > There are useful reasons for making /tmp or /var separate partitions > > > regardless of upgrade > > > > Certainly, but having seperate partitions for a whole bunch of things > > usualyl causes more trouble than it is worth with a modern distribution. > > How so? I think it depends on usage. For a notebook/desktop user coming > from Windows, a single large partition is probably easier to understand. > For a server, a single large partition reduces manageability, security, and > reliability IMO. > > Personally, I use LVM on everything, even notebooks. For desktops and > servers I use LVM on RAID. I think the deciding factor is your backup strategy. I used to have many partitions, each capable of complete backup/restore on its own. As harddisks got bigger, I used 2 partitions, ie. one for system (/) and another for your data (/home). /var and /usr/local symlinked to /home partition. Now, I am using one partition per harddisk, with nightly 'rsync' and weekly 'rsync --delete' to backup harddisk (2 of them, in fact). Easy to backup and restore. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 03:01:21 2006 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 23:01:21 -0400 Subject: OT: Linux running 32 and 64 In-Reply-To: <200609211842.08398.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200609211842.08398.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20060927030121.GA30652@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Sep 21, 2006 at 06:42:08PM +0800, JM wrote > hi all, > > does anyone know of a site the did a benchmark on 32bit vs > 64bit processors? and dual core vs 2 single core processors? > > thanks, http://www.worlds-fastest.com/ has a benchmark test that showed a certain web app was actually 37% *FASTER IN 32 BITS* versus 64 bits. The comparison was 32 versus 64 bit versions of SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 10, running on a machine with two AMD Opteron64 cpus. -- Walter Dnes In linux /sbin/init is Job #1 My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 05:13:21 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 01:13:21 -0400 Subject: Articles mentioned at NewTLUG last night Message-ID: <451A0871.2070105@telly.org> Hi all, At the NewTLUG meeting I mentioned some articles that some people might find of interest: "Is Debian dying?" http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7543606709.html "My Gentoo odyssey" http://distrocenter.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/09/12/213246&tid=108 - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 08:27:38 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (paul sutton) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 08:27:38 +0000 Subject: Fud, Fud and Fud et al In-Reply-To: <45130EA4.5040002-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4512D95F.6020901@rogers.com> <45130EA4.5040002@telly.org> Message-ID: <451A35FA.2030203@zleap.net> you raise a good point here, however there is nothing to stop adobe writing an install script for acrobat reader in order to allow users to EASILY install it on client computers, (it's a free download anyway). it would be better than download and manually installing. GIMP is fine, i don't think the amount of choice given is anti competative, esp as the Linux and related source is available freely so if adobe want to port photoshop to Linux they could. The only problem is the differences between gnome and kde, in terms of libraries, but this is being resolved so there is a common set of libraries, people can use, which in the long term will benefit all users. and may actually get things ported. SOmetimes choice is a bad thingand can slow down progress but the community is willing to listen and address these issues, something again that should be promoted. we need to do more postive promotion, at present codeweavers produce crossover office, that can run photoshop, and other applications written for windows, lets not worry what Microsoft are doing, lets concentrate on what We as a community want, promote and enhance our software. we do that right and we may start getting more LInux desktops, as people have said the more we bash microsoft it looks bad on us, plus the more we discuss MS articles with links or start threads like this it kind of suggests we have nothing to chat about with regard to OSS and Linux. Paul > >After all, consider what's "bundled" in a typical Linux distribution. >Are Linux distributors being anti-competitive against Adobe by including >Xpdf, Ghostscript and Gimp? Is the installation-on-request of CLAM >anti-competitive? If Linux distributions can include search engines, >anti-virus and other tools that hurt sales from vendors of those >products, why can't Microsoft? > >- Evan >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 15:15:45 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 11:15:45 -0400 Subject: OT: Linux running 32 and 64 In-Reply-To: <20060927030121.GA30652-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <200609211842.08398.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20060927030121.GA30652@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: Walter Dnes wrote: > On Thu, Sep 21, 2006 at 06:42:08PM +0800, JM wrote >> hi all, >> >> does anyone know of a site the did a benchmark on 32bit vs >> 64bit processors? and dual core vs 2 single core processors? >> >> thanks, > > http://www.worlds-fastest.com/ has a benchmark test that showed a > certain web app was actually 37% *FASTER IN 32 BITS* versus 64 bits. > The comparison was 32 versus 64 bit versions of SUSE Linux Enterprise > Server 10, running on a machine with two AMD Opteron64 cpus. They did not run their certain web app with more than 2gb of memory in any system. They did a test on their machines showing a marked difference in throughput when moving from 1gb to 2gb, so how about the 64bit advantage of having, say, 16gb of ram? That and how do we know that their cgi script is well designed without seeing it? It's great for them to have that paper though, as they can refer McDonalds and FedEx to it when those companies wonder about upgrading to 64bit. Instead, NN&A can get some great contracts selling upgrades to 32bit systems. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-trWFDORQd8hBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 15:16:45 2006 From: paul-trWFDORQd8hBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Paul Osman) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 11:16:45 -0400 Subject: OT: Anyone want some old computers? Message-ID: Sorry for the off-topic post, but I figured somebody here may be interested in this. I've got a bunch of old computers lying around that I need to get rid of ASAP or else they're off to the dump. I'm moving to BC tomorrow afternoon, so this is a bit urgent. Anyways, to be specific I have 5 Sparcstation 5 workstations... one of them has a suitable amount of RAM (64M iirc) and a 1GB hard drive... it's running NetBSD 3.0. The others are all missing hard drives and RAM but everything else works. They all have either 110Mhz or 95?Mhz processors. I also have an old Dell Optiplex P133 (I think?) with a broken onboard IDE controller. And, after just checking my closet I've realized I also have an old Compaq Pentium 1 something server and an IBM PC Server with a fancy old 4x1GB array. If anybody would like any of the above, let me know. I'm in the broadview / danforth area and can't deliver. Cheers, Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 15:54:26 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 11:54:26 -0400 Subject: OT: Anyone want some old computers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Paul, You might also list your stuff on Craig's List .. I got rid of a bunk bed in about 20 minutes. It's really incredibly fast, and free. On 9/27/06, Paul Osman wrote: > > Sorry for the off-topic post, but I figured somebody here may be > interested in this. I've got a bunch of old computers lying around > that I need to get rid of ASAP or else they're off to the dump. I'm > moving to BC tomorrow afternoon, so this is a bit urgent. Anyways, to > be specific I have 5 Sparcstation 5 workstations... one of them has a > suitable amount of RAM (64M iirc) and a 1GB hard drive... it's > running NetBSD 3.0. The others are all missing hard drives and RAM > but everything else works. They all have either 110Mhz or 95?Mhz > processors. I also have an old Dell Optiplex P133 (I think?) with a > broken onboard IDE controller. And, after just checking my closet > I've realized I also have an old Compaq Pentium 1 something server > and an IBM PC Server with a fancy old 4x1GB array. > > If anybody would like any of the above, let me know. I'm in the > broadview / danforth area and can't deliver. > > Cheers, > Paul > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 16:24:25 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 12:24:25 -0400 Subject: OT: Anyone want some old computers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alex Beamish wrote: > Paul, > > You might also list your stuff on Craig's List .. I got rid of a bunk > bed in about 20 minutes. It's really incredibly fast, and free. http://www.freecycle.org/ is great for giveaway stuff or trade too. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 16:41:13 2006 From: dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org (David Tilbrook) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 12:41:13 -0400 Subject: OT: Anyone want some old computers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <451AA9A9.7010508@qef.com> Alex Beamish wrote: > Paul, > > You might also list your stuff on Craig's List .. I got rid of a bunk > bed in about 20 minutes. It's really incredibly fast, and free. > How does one find Craig's list? -- dt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 16:42:39 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 12:42:39 -0400 Subject: Problems with Kubuntu Edgy and SMB mounting Message-ID: <451AA9FF.80408@telly.org> Well, the weekend install went surprisingly easily (for a distro I'd never really used much before) and I'm extremely happy with the result. There are just a couple of niggling things that I thought I'd ask about here before raising them as probloems or bugs. Some of these are as likely problems with my setup as bugs in Edgy. Reporting stuff is also better accepted is a solution can be offered :-). 1) The tiny icon for Thunderbird (the one that apprears on the KDE panel when it' s running, and shows in the upper left corner of the window running it) seems to be missing. The generic "X" shows isntead. This is wierd, because its KDE menu icon is fine, and the " compose mail" window open while I write this has a proper icon. 2) Also in Thunderbird. When I click on a URL in my mail it opens Konqueror rather than Firefox. I think I've looked everywhere to see where the association is made but obviously I' ve missed something. 3) I continue to have problems browsing and mounting Samba shares on a local server. Thsi line in /etc/fstab is //MYHOST/share /home/myhost-share smbfs username=evan,password=mypass,owner,user 0 0 It mounts fine at bootup, and `df` shows //MYHOST/share on /home/myhost-share type smbfs (rw) Reading is no problem; writing requires root. Is this an etch problem or am I doing something wrong? Under Mandriva, if I unmounted the shares as root and remounted them as non-root, I could write to them, which makes me think the problem is my config rather than Edgy. 3a) Not a single tool that I tried could properly browse the network and find the shares. What is the best tool in (K)ubuntu for browsing available shares and printers in an SMB network? (Of course, my lone Windows box on the network sees the server without a hitch). As always, any help is appreciated. Thanks! - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 17:01:46 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 13:01:46 -0400 Subject: OT: Anyone want some old computers? In-Reply-To: <451AA9A9.7010508-hKuJ9UrQZDM@public.gmane.org> References: <451AA9A9.7010508@qef.com> Message-ID: David Tilbrook wrote: > Alex Beamish wrote: >> Paul, >> >> You might also list your stuff on Craig's List .. I got rid of a bunk >> bed in about 20 minutes. It's really incredibly fast, and free. >> > > How does one find Craig's list? try http://toronto.craigslist.org/ Check the other Candian/relevant cities too. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 17:04:00 2006 From: Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Jason.Shein-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 13:04:00 -0400 Subject: Problems with Kubuntu Edgy and SMB mounting In-Reply-To: <451AA9FF.80408-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <451AA9FF.80408@telly.org> Message-ID: The following entry in /etc/fstab works for me on Dapper /// / smbfs users,auto,username=,credentials=/home//.credentials,uid=1000,gid=1000 0 0 and the .credentials file contains the following, and must be chmod 600 username= password= _______________________________________________________________________________ Jason Shein Network Administrator ? Linux Systems Iovate Health Sciences Inc. 5100 Spectrum Way Mississauga, ON L4W 5S2 ( 905 ) - 678 - 3119 x 3136 1 - 888 - 334 - 4448, x 3136 (toll-free) jason.shein at iovate.com Customer Service. Collaboration. Innovation. Efficiency. Iovate's Information Technology Team _______________________________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL AND IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE REVIEW OF THE PARTY TO WHOM IT IS ADDRESSED. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS CONFIDENTIAL AND IS DISCLOSED TO YOU UNDER THE EXPRESS UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU WILL NOT DISCLOSE IT OR ITS CONTENTS TO ANY THIRD PARTY WITHOUT THE EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF AN AUTHORIZED OFFICER OF IOVATE HEALTH SCIENCES SERVICES INC. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS TRANSMISSION IN ERROR, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY RETURN IT TO THE SENDER. _______________________________________________________________________________ Evan Leibovitch Sent by: owner-tlug at ss.org 09/27/2006 12:42 PM Please respond to tlug at ss.org To tlug at ss.org cc Subject [TLUG]: Problems with Kubuntu Edgy and SMB mounting Well, the weekend install went surprisingly easily (for a distro I'd never really used much before) and I'm extremely happy with the result. There are just a couple of niggling things that I thought I'd ask about here before raising them as probloems or bugs. Some of these are as likely problems with my setup as bugs in Edgy. Reporting stuff is also better accepted is a solution can be offered :-). 1) The tiny icon for Thunderbird (the one that apprears on the KDE panel when it' s running, and shows in the upper left corner of the window running it) seems to be missing. The generic "X" shows isntead. This is wierd, because its KDE menu icon is fine, and the " compose mail" window open while I write this has a proper icon. 2) Also in Thunderbird. When I click on a URL in my mail it opens Konqueror rather than Firefox. I think I've looked everywhere to see where the association is made but obviously I' ve missed something. 3) I continue to have problems browsing and mounting Samba shares on a local server. Thsi line in /etc/fstab is //MYHOST/share /home/myhost-share smbfs username=evan,password=mypass,owner,user 0 0 It mounts fine at bootup, and `df` shows //MYHOST/share on /home/myhost-share type smbfs (rw) Reading is no problem; writing requires root. Is this an etch problem or am I doing something wrong? Under Mandriva, if I unmounted the shares as root and remounted them as non-root, I could write to them, which makes me think the problem is my config rather than Edgy. 3a) Not a single tool that I tried could properly browse the network and find the shares. What is the best tool in (K)ubuntu for browsing available shares and printers in an SMB network? (Of course, my lone Windows box on the network sees the server without a hitch). As always, any help is appreciated. Thanks! - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 17:40:17 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 13:40:17 -0400 Subject: OT: Anyone want some old computers? In-Reply-To: <451AA9A9.7010508-hKuJ9UrQZDM@public.gmane.org> References: <451AA9A9.7010508@qef.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0609271040v26cca88bvf564380759e35369@mail.gmail.com> On 9/27/06, David Tilbrook wrote: > Alex Beamish wrote: > > Paul, > > > > You might also list your stuff on Craig's List .. I got rid of a bunk > > bed in about 20 minutes. It's really incredibly fast, and free. > > > > How does one find Craig's list? http://toronto.craigslist.org/ =) -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 17:58:25 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 13:58:25 -0400 Subject: Cleaning Flat Panels... Message-ID: <20060927135825.287c40d6.joehill@sympatico.ca> Just a tad offtopic, but before I ruin a pretty good display, what is the best way to clean the surface? In the manual, it just says to use a 'soft, dry, cloth'. I'm pretty sure Windex is not a good idea... I've been very careful about not sneezing or coughing at the display, and I'm not one of those really irritating people who have to touch the screen to point at something. I don't know how many knuckles (young and old) I've rapped on that one ;) However, there are some spots which I would like to clean off, and the 'soft dry cloth' doesn't seem to do it. Obviously I'm nervous about pressing too hard. Anyone have any magic tricks they use to keep their FP display clean? Thanks! -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 /////////////////////////// "People should not be afraid of their Government, the Government should be afraid of the People." -- V. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 18:02:03 2006 From: echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:02:03 -0400 Subject: OT: Anyone want some old computers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20060927140008.0497f450@sympatico.ca> I don't know how much we have room for, ... I live nearby and would like to meet you and would like to meet you. See URL at the bottom of this msg. At 11:16 AM 9/27/2006, you wrote: >Sorry for the off-topic post, but I figured somebody here may be >interested in this. I've got a bunch of old computers lying around >that I need to get rid of ASAP or else they're off to the dump. I'm >moving to BC tomorrow afternoon, so this is a bit urgent. Anyways, to >be specific I have 5 Sparcstation 5 workstations... one of them has a >suitable amount of RAM (64M iirc) and a 1GB hard drive... it's >running NetBSD 3.0. The others are all missing hard drives and RAM >but everything else works. They all have either 110Mhz or 95?Mhz >processors. I also have an old Dell Optiplex P133 (I think?) with a >broken onboard IDE controller. And, after just checking my closet >I've realized I also have an old Compaq Pentium 1 something server >and an IBM PC Server with a fancy old 4x1GB array. > >If anybody would like any of the above, let me know. I'm in the >broadview / danforth area and can't deliver. > >Cheers, >Paul >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/457 - Release Date: 9/26/2006 www3.sympatico.ca/echapin -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/457 - Release Date: 9/26/2006 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 18:09:10 2006 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:09:10 -0400 Subject: Problems with Kubuntu Edgy and SMB Mounting Message-ID: <451ABE46.4010303@rogers.com> > 2) Also in Thunderbird. When I click on a URL in my mail it opens > Konqueror rather than Firefox. I think I've looked everywhere to see > where the association is made but obviously I' ve missed something. In Mepis 6, which should be the same as Kubuntu Edgy, the path is: Start --> System --> System Configuration --> KDE Components --> Component Chooser >From there you can specify your default browser and email client and a few other things. As to the problem of the missing icon in the panel, I've had a similar problem in the past due to the wanted icon not scaling to the chosen resolution. Selecting the 'use larger icons' option for the panel usually solved the problem. HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 18:30:22 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 18:30:22 +0000 Subject: Cleaning Flat Panels... In-Reply-To: <20060927135825.287c40d6.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060927135825.287c40d6.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 9/27/06, JoeHill wrote: > However, there are some spots which I would like to clean off, and the 'soft > dry cloth' doesn't seem to do it. Obviously I'm nervous about pressing too hard. > > Anyone have any magic tricks they use to keep their FP display clean? I got a bag of microfibre towels at Costco; they're intended for cleaning cars, but are entirely suitable for mcuh more delicate things. (After all, they were long only available from 3M, at about $6 for a 6" square, for cleaning glasses...) Every few days, I spray some glasses cleaner on the screens and wipe down with the microfibre. Actually, I've got a bag of 18" squares in the trunk of the car; I'll probably be driving in to the next meeting, so could be willing to part with most of them there... $1 each is probably fair... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 18:39:51 2006 From: lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org (Oliver Meyn) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:39:51 -0400 Subject: Cleaning Flat Panels... In-Reply-To: <20060927135825.287c40d6.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060927135825.287c40d6.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <451AC577.40705@mineallmeyn.com> JoeHill wrote: > Just a tad offtopic, but before I ruin a pretty good display, what is the best > way to clean the surface? > > Anyone have any magic tricks they use to keep their FP display clean? I use a piece of microfibre (that happens to spend most of its time sitting between keyboard and screen in a closed laptop) and some breath. I wouldn't worry too much about using a little elbow grease, but as you're aware, a little caution is wise. All the splotches my monitors have suffered eventually gave way to this technique. And yeah, Windex is right out. Oliver -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Eric.Malenfant-xNZwKgViW5gAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 18:48:35 2006 From: Eric.Malenfant-xNZwKgViW5gAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Eric.Malenfant-xNZwKgViW5gAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 13:48:35 -0500 Subject: Cleaning Flat Panels... In-Reply-To: <451AC577.40705-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g@public.gmane.org> References: <451AC577.40705@mineallmeyn.com> Message-ID: <98A4A2882BDF3249B4A3650DA062799F036C47C1@daebe100.NOE.Nokia.com> Microfibre is great. Monstrer has a product as well which is a solution / cloth for sale. Now, try cleaning an LCD when your daughter gets a hold of 5 different colour Sharpie Markers and wipes that over your LCD.. trust me, the above won't work - there's are other alternatives, which trust me, is a trial and error I've done TWICE to the same monitor. No more Sharpie's near the computer now! ;) - Eric > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf > Of ext Oliver Meyn > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 2:40 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Cleaning Flat Panels... > > JoeHill wrote: > > Just a tad offtopic, but before I ruin a pretty good > display, what is > > the best way to clean the surface? > > > > Anyone have any magic tricks they use to keep their FP > display clean? > > I use a piece of microfibre (that happens to spend most of > its time sitting between keyboard and screen in a closed > laptop) and some breath. > I wouldn't worry too much about using a little elbow > grease, but as you're aware, a little caution is wise. All > the splotches my monitors have suffered eventually gave way > to this technique. And yeah, Windex is right out. > > Oliver > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 18:53:31 2006 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:53:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Cleaning Flat Panels... In-Reply-To: <98A4A2882BDF3249B4A3650DA062799F036C47C1-EbeTJvw03O1uQ36E7UOhrbahn/p+MhOh@public.gmane.org> References: <451AC577.40705@mineallmeyn.com> <98A4A2882BDF3249B4A3650DA062799F036C47C1@daebe100.NOE.Nokia.com> Message-ID: <50595.207.188.88.64.1159383211.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Now, try cleaning an LCD when your daughter gets a hold of 5 different > colour Sharpie Markers and wipes > that over your LCD.. trust me, the above won't work - there's are other > alternatives, which trust me, > is a trial and error I've done TWICE to the same monitor. No more > Sharpie's near the computer now! ;) > > - Eric When my daughter was at the crawling stage, she discovered that operating the red button on the power bar under the computer bench would cause both her parents to dance around in a state of great agitation. What fun! P. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 19:15:56 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:15:56 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: References: <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> <20060926143554.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451941BE.9020101@telly.org> <20060926171603.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060927191556.GT13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 08:51:32PM -0400, Tim Writer wrote: > How so? I think it depends on usage. For a notebook/desktop user coming > from Windows, a single large partition is probably easier to understand. > For a server, a single large partition reduces manageability, security, and > reliability IMO. > > Personally, I use LVM on everything, even notebooks. For desktops and > servers I use LVM on RAID. I agree with the LVM on RAID. I use that too. Makes it easier to add space to volumes when needed in the future. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 19:51:11 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:51:11 -0400 Subject: Cleaning Flat Panels... In-Reply-To: <50595.207.188.88.64.1159383211.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <451AC577.40705@mineallmeyn.com> <98A4A2882BDF3249B4A3650DA062799F036C47C1@daebe100.NOE.Nokia.com> <50595.207.188.88.64.1159383211.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20060927195111.GU13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 02:53:31PM -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > When my daughter was at the crawling stage, she discovered that operating > the red button on the power bar under the computer bench would cause both > her parents to dance around in a state of great agitation. > > What fun! One of our cats found that button while walking behind a dresser while visiting my wife's parents a couple of years ago. Suddenly the computer turned off, and we couldn't think of what would cause that, until looking at the cat standing on the power bar wondering what all the attension was suddenly all about. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 19:51:17 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:51:17 -0400 Subject: Cleaning Flat Panels... In-Reply-To: <50595.207.188.88.64.1159383211.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <451AC577.40705@mineallmeyn.com> <98A4A2882BDF3249B4A3650DA062799F036C47C1@daebe100.NOE.Nokia.com> <50595.207.188.88.64.1159383211.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20060927155117.254124c3.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:53:31 -0400 (EDT) phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > Now, try cleaning an LCD when your daughter gets a hold of 5 different > > colour Sharpie Markers and wipes > > that over your LCD.. trust me, the above won't work - there's are other > > alternatives, which trust me, > > is a trial and error I've done TWICE to the same monitor. No more > > Sharpie's near the computer now! ;) > > > > - Eric > > When my daughter was at the crawling stage, she discovered that operating > the red button on the power bar under the computer bench would cause both > her parents to dance around in a state of great agitation. > > What fun! Okay, you guys are scaring me. I've got a 2 yr old *son* (ie. mucho destructo). So the worst thing is I have to have an ugly piece of black tape over the bright shiny power and reset buttons. He's getting taller...oh jeez. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 /////////////////////////// "People should not be afraid of their Government, the Government should be afraid of the People." -- V. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 19:54:18 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:54:18 -0400 Subject: Cleaning Flat Panels... In-Reply-To: References: <20060927135825.287c40d6.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20060927155418.2b9a09c5.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 18:30:22 +0000 Christopher Browne got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Every few days, I spray some glasses cleaner on the screens and wipe > down with the microfibre. Actually, I've got a bag of 18" squares in > the trunk of the car; I'll probably be driving in to the next meeting, > so could be willing to part with most of them there... $1 each is > probably fair... Microfibre it is! Thanks all! (Hmmmm, I wonder if the techs in my wife's office use them...) Thanks for the offer, maybe that will give me some impetus to get up off my butt and go to one of these meeting finally :-) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 /////////////////////////// "People should not be afraid of their Government, the Government should be afraid of the People." -- V. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 20:05:09 2006 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:05:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Articles mentioned at NewTLUG last night In-Reply-To: <451A0871.2070105-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <451A0871.2070105@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060927200509.33892.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hi all, > > At the NewTLUG meeting I mentioned some articles > that some people might > find of interest: > > "Is Debian dying?" > http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7543606709.html Yawn, sigh, groan... I recently (re-)ran across an article where a Toronto Free-Net board member was talking about how the Toronto Free-Net was just about about to go under. Said article was written 10 years ago, and the Toronto Free-Net is still around. Yes, the Toronto Free-Net had problems then, and it has problems today, but as long as there are enough people that care a lot about the project it will continue. My take is that yes Debian has some internal political issues that may be a bit messy, but there are more than enough people that CARE about doing things the "right and proper" way things that will carry on. In other words, if I had to bet money on which Linux Distro. is most likely to be around, and actively supported 10 years from now my money would be on Debian. My money would also be on Debian for 10 years from now: - Airing dirty laundy in public. - Being slow to release. - Having one of the uglier presentation spaces. - Having one of the uglier install systems. - Having ROCK solid reliable code. In other words warts and all (and it has a few) I expect I will continue to like Debian. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 20:08:41 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:08:41 -0400 Subject: OT: Anyone want some old computers? In-Reply-To: <451AA9A9.7010508-hKuJ9UrQZDM@public.gmane.org> References: <451AA9A9.7010508@qef.com> Message-ID: <451ADA49.3070606@rogers.com> David Tilbrook wrote: > Alex Beamish wrote: >> Paul, >> >> You might also list your stuff on Craig's List .. I got rid of a bunk >> bed in about 20 minutes. It's really incredibly fast, and free. >> > > How does one find Craig's list? Same way as you find everything else, Google. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 20:13:29 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:13:29 -0400 Subject: Cleaning Flat Panels... In-Reply-To: <20060927135825.287c40d6.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060927135825.287c40d6.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <451ADB69.6000303@rogers.com> JoeHill wrote: > Just a tad offtopic, but before I ruin a pretty good display, what is the best > way to clean the surface? > > In the manual, it just says to use a 'soft, dry, cloth'. I'm pretty sure Windex > is not a good idea... > > I've been very careful about not sneezing or coughing at the display, and I'm > not one of those really irritating people who have to touch the screen to point > at something. I don't know how many knuckles (young and old) I've rapped on that > one ;) > > However, there are some spots which I would like to clean off, and the 'soft > dry cloth' doesn't seem to do it. Obviously I'm nervous about pressing too hard. > > Anyone have any magic tricks they use to keep their FP display clean? > > Thanks! > IIRC, the manual for my ThinkPad said mild soap & water on a soft cloth could be used for really dirty screen. It even works for removing PGP finger prints. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 20:19:36 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:19:36 -0400 Subject: Cleaning Flat Panels... In-Reply-To: <50595.207.188.88.64.1159383211.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <451AC577.40705@mineallmeyn.com> <98A4A2882BDF3249B4A3650DA062799F036C47C1@daebe100.NOE.Nokia.com> <50595.207.188.88.64.1159383211.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <451ADCD8.7000906@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > >> Now, try cleaning an LCD when your daughter gets a hold of 5 different >> colour Sharpie Markers and wipes >> that over your LCD.. trust me, the above won't work - there's are other >> alternatives, which trust me, >> is a trial and error I've done TWICE to the same monitor. No more >> Sharpie's near the computer now! ;) >> >> - Eric > > When my daughter was at the crawling stage, she discovered that operating > the red button on the power bar under the computer bench would cause both > her parents to dance around in a state of great agitation. > > What fun! Many years ago, I was in an assembly language programming class for the Datapoint 2200 (think Intel 8008 CPU, though made with discrete logic). Those devices used cassette tape for storage and I occasionally wanter around the class and "accidentally" trip over a power cord, if I noticed someone hadn't saved their data. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 20:41:08 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:41:08 -0400 Subject: OT: Anyone want some old computers? In-Reply-To: <451ADA49.3070606-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <451AA9A9.7010508@qef.com> <451ADA49.3070606@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200609271641.08718.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Wednesday 27 September 2006 16:08, James Knott wrote: > David Tilbrook wrote: > > How does one find Craig's list? > > Same way as you find everything else, Google. ;-) Staying off topic a little more ... Don't you think this is a bit scary? If the 3 companies running google, yahoo and msn combined to blacklist a website 99% of the public would never find it. I wonder what the solution might be? -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 20:49:48 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:49:48 -0400 Subject: Articles mentioned at NewTLUG last night In-Reply-To: <451A0871.2070105-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <451A0871.2070105@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060927204948.GV13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 01:13:21AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > At the NewTLUG meeting I mentioned some articles that some people might > find of interest: > > "Is Debian dying?" > http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7543606709.html I think many people start thinking that something is falling apart as soon as there is any arguments taking place. I think it just means democrazy is working. Debian is not a dictatorship after all. It isn't about to go away, and I think is in fact the distribution least likely to die. > "My Gentoo odyssey" > http://distrocenter.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/09/12/213246&tid=108 -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 20:50:16 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:50:16 -0400 Subject: Cleaning Flat Panels... In-Reply-To: <20060927135825.287c40d6.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060927135825.287c40d6.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200609271650.18091.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Wednesday 27 September 2006 13:58, JoeHill wrote: [snip] > Anyone have any magic tricks they use to keep their FP display > clean? I use a soft, lint-free cloth or paper towel and a spray screen cleaner, Kensington, Belkin, whatever is at hand. You can buy the sprays from stationary supply stores. The cleaners seem to be alcohol-based since they evaporate very quickly. I find I get better, streak-free results if I spray the cloth rather than spray the screen and wipe gently without swirling the cloth. In between cleanings, I use a carbon fiber record cleaning brush that I bought many years ago at Ring Audio to pick up the dust that settles on the screen. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 22:07:27 2006 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 18:07:27 -0400 Subject: Samba3 + WinXP problem Message-ID: <451AF61F.3090407@alteeve.com> Hi all, I've got a very frustrating problem at one of my job's client's networks that I administer. It seems that, come heck or high water, Windows XP (SP2) insists that a domain user who is added to the local machine's Administrator group will only get Guest privileges. This causes problems because the only way I can install software (inc. updates) is to login to the local machine instead of the domain. I have tried switching between tdbsam and smbpasswd backends, I have remapped my groups several times... I am stumped. If anyone is clueful on this, I would be *very* greatful as the client is getting impatient and I am feeling the pressure. Thanks all! Madison (who really hates all things windows... *sigh* ;) ). PS - If it helps, I'll post my smb.conf file (or anything else potentially helpful). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Eric.Malenfant-xNZwKgViW5gAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 27 22:31:26 2006 From: Eric.Malenfant-xNZwKgViW5gAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Eric.Malenfant-xNZwKgViW5gAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 17:31:26 -0500 Subject: Cleaning Flat Panels... In-Reply-To: <20060927155117.254124c3.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20060927155117.254124c3.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <98A4A2882BDF3249B4A3650DA062799F036C4BFB@daebe100.NOE.Nokia.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf > Of ext JoeHill > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 3:51 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Cleaning Flat Panels... > > On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:53:31 -0400 (EDT) > phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > > > Now, try cleaning an LCD when your daughter gets a hold of 5 > > > different colour Sharpie Markers and wipes that over your LCD.. > > > trust me, the above won't work - there's are other alternatives, > > > which trust me, is a trial and error I've done TWICE to the same > > > monitor. No more Sharpie's near the computer now! ;) > > > > > > - Eric > > > > When my daughter was at the crawling stage, she discovered that > > operating the red button on the power bar under the computer bench > > would cause both her parents to dance around in a state of > great agitation. > > > > What fun! > > Okay, you guys are scaring me. I've got a 2 yr old *son* (ie. > mucho destructo). > So the worst thing is I have to have an ugly piece of black > tape over the bright shiny power and reset buttons. > > He's getting taller...oh jeez. > > -- Well, my daughter is only going to be *2* this Sunday, so yeah, taller == more trouble! :) I've already had to disconnect the pretty blue LED's and even the LED fan inside the case because she was attracted to it all the time. The best is that when the wife is booted into Windows, she doesn't go near the computer. As soon as dad loads up the penguins, she's on my lap and not moving till I get off. Another convert, and I didn't have to do anything :) - Eric -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 01:13:15 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:13:15 -0400 Subject: Cleaning Flat Panels... In-Reply-To: <451ADCD8.7000906-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <451AC577.40705@mineallmeyn.com> <98A4A2882BDF3249B4A3650DA062799F036C47C1@daebe100.NOE.Nokia.com> <50595.207.188.88.64.1159383211.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <451ADCD8.7000906@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20060927211315.6cee387b@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:19:36 -0400 James Knott got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Many years ago, I was in an assembly language programming class for the > Datapoint 2200 (think Intel 8008 CPU, though made with discrete logic). > Those devices used cassette tape for storage and I occasionally wanter > around the class and "accidentally" trip over a power cord, if I noticed > someone hadn't saved their data. ;-) Eeeeevvvviiiilllll! I love it! -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 /////////////////////////// "People should not be afraid of their Government, the Government should be afraid of the People." -- V. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 01:19:10 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:19:10 -0400 Subject: Cleaning Flat Panels... In-Reply-To: References: <20060927135825.287c40d6.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20060927211910.78a23301@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 18:30:22 +0000 Christopher Browne got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Every few days, I spray some glasses cleaner on the screens and wipe > down with the microfibre. Actually, I've got a bag of 18" squares in > the trunk of the car; I'll probably be driving in to the next meeting, > so could be willing to part with most of them there... $1 each is > probably fair... Microfibre it is! Thanks all! (Hmmmm, I wonder if the techs in my wife's office use them...) Thanks for the offer, maybe that will give me some impetus to get up off my butt and go to one of these meeting finally :-) ...this didn't seem to come through the first time... -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 /////////////////////////// "People should not be afraid of their Government, the Government should be afraid of the People." -- V. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 02:59:13 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:59:13 -0400 Subject: Free Software Mailing to MPs Message-ID: Saw this on the Ottawa LUG list... ----------------------------------------------- Subject: [oclug-announce] mailout to all 308 MPs Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:52:03 -0400 From: "Brenda J. Butler" To: oclug-announce-pwPoLXtpye8KqIKEdFucNfd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Gosling www.goslingcommunity.org has organized a mailout of some info packages on Free and Open Source Software to all 308 Members of Parliament in the federal government. Included (that I know of, so far) are 2 CDs of Linux distros and some flyers, as well as URLs for them to get more information. This was sent out last Friday. If you want to help, please contact your Federal Member of Parliament and ask them about their opinion on this package. That act alone (writing the MP's once, before or as they get their package) may mean that a lot more MP's (or their staff) actually look at the packages and read them. If the OCLUG members also follow up afterwards with their MPs and answer any questions they might have, or demonstrate some software, or whatever, that would be even nicer. My email to my MP went out just now. The more constituents who send a message to an MP, the more seriously that MP will take the message. cheerio, bjb ------------------------------------------------------------ It would be most interesting for some GTA-based MPs to hear from their constituents, too... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 03:06:32 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 23:06:32 -0400 Subject: Free Software Mailing to MPs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <451B3C38.2050602@telly.org> Christopher Browne wrote: > Saw this on the Ottawa LUG list... Included in that package was the CLUE brochure we gave out at LinuxWorld, that helps state some of the community concerns about copyright "reform". - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 03:46:34 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 23:46:34 -0400 Subject: Motherboard Question Message-ID: <32f6a8880609272046x1e058453y7f0f7569c8b1d83@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, This may be a bit off topic but what type of processor would you guy suggest for computational performance. I have seen some posts about AMD being better however how is the Intel DUO performing? Is it currently better then what AMD Has to offer? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 03:55:00 2006 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 23:55:00 -0400 Subject: Motherboard Question In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880609272046x1e058453y7f0f7569c8b1d83-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880609272046x1e058453y7f0f7569c8b1d83@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880609272055v11a9ef2dq9f36e0c5a7282a86@mail.gmail.com> Hi, On 9/27/06, Dave Germiquet wrote: > > Hi All, > > This may be a bit off topic but what type of processor would you guy > suggest for computational performance. I have seen some posts about AMD > being better however how is the Intel DUO performing? Is it currently better > then what AMD Has to offer? > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 04:27:47 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 00:27:47 -0400 Subject: LF laptop for IPCOP firewall Message-ID: I would like to replace my mid-tower PC that runs IPCOP firewall with a laptop that has 2 NICs (PCMCIA) Does anyone know of (486 at minimum) laptop that would meet this requirement? I am guessing that almost any 486 laptop with CD should work, its just finding 2 PCMCIA cards of the same type that "should work." It could be done on a CD-less laptop, but it would require some disk drive juggling. I am doing this since a low power laptop should generate a lot less heat, noise, space and work just as well. If you have a laptop, please contact me offlist at teddymills aht knet.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 04:33:33 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 00:33:33 -0400 Subject: [OT] Atomic OS Lightning Talks at Toronto Perl Mongers - Sept 28th 2k6 Message-ID: <99a6c38f0609272133x2b4c7420n327b7876637118db@mail.gmail.com> Sorry about the last minute notice. I'll be doing one or two lightning talks (5 min each!) tomorrow at the Toronto Perl Mongers meeting about Atomic OS (and maybe my SAL perl modules which I hope will power Atomic applications) If there's anyone from *TLUG that want to come out, you'll find the necessary information at http://to.pm.org/ I'll try to bring handouts or something, but probably no CD's like at my last presentation to GTALUG. -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 09:14:07 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 05:14:07 -0400 Subject: Samba3 + WinXP problem In-Reply-To: <451AF61F.3090407-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <451AF61F.3090407@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1159434847.3395.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-09-27 at 18:07 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I've got a very frustrating problem at one of my job's client's > networks that I administer. It seems that, come heck or high water, > Windows XP (SP2) insists that a domain user who is added to the local > machine's Administrator group will only get Guest privileges. That's a unique problem, as you've probably found. We've been installing and taking care of Samba/Windows solutions for 10 years and I don't think we've hit that. Have you applied the XP registry patches that come bundled with Samba? This could also be a machine account problem. Try leaving the domain and re-joining. When you add users to the Administrators group, does the domain show up properly? Does the verify user button work? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 10:43:14 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 06:43:14 -0400 Subject: LF laptop for IPCOP firewall In-Reply-To: <451B4F43.2000206-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <451B4F43.2000206@knet.ca> Message-ID: <1159440194.3395.72.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-09-28 at 00:27 -0400, Teddy David Mills wrote: > I am guessing that almost any 486 laptop with CD should work, its just > finding 2 PCMCIA cards of the same type > that "should work." Why two identical NICs? Shouldn't you be able to use the on-board NIC (if it has one) and any other Linux supported PCMCIA or USB? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 11:08:23 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:08:23 -0400 Subject: Motherboard Question In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880609272046x1e058453y7f0f7569c8b1d83-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880609272046x1e058453y7f0f7569c8b1d83@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <451BAD27.7090601@rogers.com> Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi All, > > This may be a bit off topic but what type of processor would you guy > suggest for computational performance. I have seen some posts about AMD > being better however how is the Intel DUO performing? Is it currently > better then what AMD Has to offer? > > I suspect that for most users, either provide far more than sufficient performance. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 13:17:12 2006 From: jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:17:12 -0500 Subject: Display problem Message-ID: <451BCB58.2020306@totaltravelmarketing.com> Hi there I just installed Suse 10.0 64 on a Sun V40z attached to a HP TFT 5600 console (video, keyboard, mouse), everything was going ok, until I went for the initial reboot after the installation of the packages (by then Inknew I had to switch to 1024x764 from the initial gui with F3), and it wouldn't give me a gui afterwards, the display would go blank, thinking it was a driver problem I switch to text installation and everything went fine, but after first reboot post installation, same thing not gui at all, I switch to not gui and text logon and I can get to the server now and logon but it wont startup startx, only does it if I run the server as failsafe mode, it tells me there is a trident card in it and display wonderfully using failsafe, but if I go back to normal mode, it would go blank. I upgraded anything I could on failsafe mode and everything went ok hoping it would update the display drivers, but nothing still wont display anything on normal mode, I am attaching below the actual xorg.conf file I looked for trident drivers as it declares there ias one on that sun server, but nothing on the net, or if somebody has any other ideas, all would be welcome Thanks in advance for your help Jose -------------------------------------------- # /.../ # SaX generated X11 config file # Created on: 2006-09-27T11:35:52-0400. # # Version: 7.1 # Contact: Marcus Schaefer , 2002 # # Automatically generated by [ISaX] (7.1) # PLEASE DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE! # Section "Files" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/local" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/URW" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/PEX" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin2/misc:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin2/75dpi:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin2/100dpi:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin2/Type1" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin7/75dpi:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/baekmuk:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/japanese:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/kwintv" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/truetype" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/uni:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/CID" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/ucs/misc:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/ucs/75dpi:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/ucs/100dpi:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/hellas/misc:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/hellas/75dpi:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/hellas/100dpi:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/hellas/Type1" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/sgi:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/xtest" FontPath "/opt/kde3/share/fonts" EndSection Section "ServerFlags" Option "AllowMouseOpenFail" EndSection Section "Module" Load "freetype" Load "type1" Load "dbe" Load "glx" Load "extmod" Load "v4l" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Driver "kbd" Identifier "Keyboard[0]" Option "Protocol" "Standard" Option "XkbLayout" "us" Option "XkbModel" "pc104" Option "XkbRules" "xfree86" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Driver "mouse" Identifier "Mouse[1]" Option "Buttons" "7" Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" Option "Name" "ImExPS/2 Generic Explorer Mouse" Option "Protocol" "explorerps/2" Option "Vendor" "Sysp" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" EndSection Section "Monitor" DisplaySize 340 270 HorizSync 28-60 Identifier "Monitor[0]" ModelName "1024X768 at 60HZ" Option "DPMS" VendorName "--> LCD" VertRefresh 50-60 UseModes "Modes[0]" EndSection Section "Modes" Identifier "Modes[0]" Modeline "1024x768" 61.89 1024 1080 1184 1344 768 769 772 794 Modeline "800x600" 36.88 800 832 912 1024 600 601 604 621 Modeline "768x576" 33.74 768 792 872 976 576 577 580 596 Modeline "640x480" 23.06 640 656 720 800 480 481 484 497 EndSection Section "Screen" DefaultDepth 24 SubSection "Display" Depth 15 Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "768x576" "640x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 16 Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "768x576" "640x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 24 Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "768x576" "640x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 32 Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "768x576" "640x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 8 Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "768x576" "640x480" EndSubSection Device "Device[0]" Identifier "Screen[0]" Monitor "Monitor[0]" EndSection Section "Device" BoardName "9880" BusID "1:5:0" Driver "trident" Identifier "Device[0]" Screen 0 VendorName "Trident" EndSection Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "Layout[all]" InputDevice "Keyboard[0]" "CoreKeyboard" InputDevice "Mouse[1]" "CorePointer" Option "Clone" "off" Option "Xinerama" "off" Screen "Screen[0]" EndSection Section "DRI" Group "video" Mode 0660 EndSection Section "Extensions" EndSection -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jab-76OBl6+JcyzDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 12:34:38 2006 From: jab-76OBl6+JcyzDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Jeremy Baker) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:34:38 -0400 Subject: Display problem In-Reply-To: <451BCB58.2020306-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <451BCB58.2020306@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <200609280834.39200.jab@muskokatech.ca> On Thursday 28 September 2006 09:17, Jose wrote: > Hi there > > I just installed Suse 10.0 64 on a Sun V40z attached to a HP TFT 5600 > console (video, keyboard, mouse), everything was going ok, until I went > for the initial reboot after the installation of the packages (by then > Inknew I had to switch to 1024x764 from the initial gui with F3), and it > wouldn't give me a gui afterwards, the display would go blank, thinking > it was a driver problem I switch to text installation and everything > went fine, but after first reboot post installation, same thing not gui > at all, I switch to not gui and text logon and I can get to the server > now and logon but it wont startup startx, only does it if I run the > server as failsafe mode, it tells me there is a trident card in it and > display wonderfully using failsafe, but if I go back to normal mode, it > would go blank. > > I upgraded anything I could on failsafe mode and everything went ok > hoping it would update the display drivers, but nothing still wont > display anything on normal mode, I am attaching below the actual > xorg.conf file > > I looked for trident drivers as it declares there ias one on that sun > server, but nothing on the net, or if somebody has > any other ideas, all would be welcome > > Thanks in advance for your help > > Jose > > -------------------------------------------- > > # /.../ > # SaX generated X11 config file > # Created on: 2006-09-27T11:35:52-0400. > # > # Version: 7.1 > # Contact: Marcus Schaefer , 2002 > # > # Automatically generated by [ISaX] (7.1) > # PLEASE DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE! > # > Section "Files" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/local" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/URW" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/PEX" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin2/misc:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin2/75dpi:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin2/100dpi:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin2/Type1" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin7/75dpi:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/baekmuk:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/japanese:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/kwintv" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/truetype" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/uni:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/CID" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/ucs/misc:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/ucs/75dpi:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/ucs/100dpi:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/hellas/misc:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/hellas/75dpi:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/hellas/100dpi:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/hellas/Type1" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/sgi:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/xtest" > FontPath "/opt/kde3/share/fonts" > EndSection > > Section "ServerFlags" > Option "AllowMouseOpenFail" > EndSection > > Section "Module" > Load "freetype" > Load "type1" > Load "dbe" > Load "glx" > Load "extmod" > Load "v4l" > EndSection > > Section "InputDevice" > Driver "kbd" > Identifier "Keyboard[0]" > Option "Protocol" "Standard" > Option "XkbLayout" "us" > Option "XkbModel" "pc104" > Option "XkbRules" "xfree86" > EndSection > > Section "InputDevice" > Driver "mouse" > Identifier "Mouse[1]" > Option "Buttons" "7" > Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" > Option "Name" "ImExPS/2 Generic Explorer > Mouse" > Option "Protocol" "explorerps/2" > Option "Vendor" "Sysp" > Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" > EndSection > > Section "Monitor" > DisplaySize 340 270 > HorizSync 28-60 > Identifier "Monitor[0]" > ModelName "1024X768 at 60HZ" > Option "DPMS" > VendorName "--> LCD" > VertRefresh 50-60 > UseModes "Modes[0]" > EndSection > > Section "Modes" > Identifier "Modes[0]" > Modeline "1024x768" 61.89 1024 1080 1184 1344 768 > 769 772 794 > Modeline "800x600" 36.88 800 832 912 1024 600 601 > 604 621 > Modeline "768x576" 33.74 768 792 872 976 576 577 > 580 596 > Modeline "640x480" 23.06 640 656 720 800 480 481 > 484 497 > EndSection > > Section "Screen" > DefaultDepth 24 > SubSection "Display" > Depth 15 > Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "768x576" > "640x480" > EndSubSection > SubSection "Display" > Depth 16 > Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "768x576" > "640x480" > EndSubSection > SubSection "Display" > Depth 24 > Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "768x576" > "640x480" > EndSubSection > SubSection "Display" > Depth 32 > Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "768x576" > "640x480" > EndSubSection > SubSection "Display" > Depth 8 > Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "768x576" > "640x480" > EndSubSection > Device "Device[0]" > Identifier "Screen[0]" > Monitor "Monitor[0]" > EndSection > > Section "Device" > BoardName "9880" > BusID "1:5:0" > Driver "trident" > Identifier "Device[0]" > Screen 0 > VendorName "Trident" > EndSection > > Section "ServerLayout" > Identifier "Layout[all]" > InputDevice "Keyboard[0]" "CoreKeyboard" > InputDevice "Mouse[1]" "CorePointer" > Option "Clone" "off" > Option "Xinerama" "off" > Screen "Screen[0]" > EndSection > > Section "DRI" > Group "video" > Mode 0660 > EndSection > > Section "Extensions" > EndSection > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists You might want to post this question to SLE -- Jeremy Baker GnuPGP fingerprint = EE66 AC49 E008 E09A 7A2A ?0195 50EF 580B EDBB 95B6 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 13:51:32 2006 From: jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:51:32 -0500 Subject: Display problem In-Reply-To: <200609280834.39200.jab-76OBl6+JcyzDN57Tih+YPw@public.gmane.org> References: <451BCB58.2020306@totaltravelmarketing.com> <200609280834.39200.jab@muskokatech.ca> Message-ID: <451BD364.50707@totaltravelmarketing.com> Jeremy Baker wrote: > On Thursday 28 September 2006 09:17, Jose wrote: > >> Hi there >> >> I just installed Suse 10.0 64 on a Sun V40z attached to a HP TFT 5600 >> console (video, keyboard, mouse), everything was going ok, until I went >> for the initial reboot after the installation of the packages (by then >> Inknew I had to switch to 1024x764 from the initial gui with F3), and it >> wouldn't give me a gui afterwards, the display would go blank, thinking >> it was a driver problem I switch to text installation and everything >> went fine, but after first reboot post installation, same thing not gui >> at all, I switch to not gui and text logon and I can get to the server >> now and logon but it wont startup startx, only does it if I run the >> server as failsafe mode, it tells me there is a trident card in it and >> display wonderfully using failsafe, but if I go back to normal mode, it >> would go blank. >> >> I upgraded anything I could on failsafe mode and everything went ok >> hoping it would update the display drivers, but nothing still wont >> display anything on normal mode, I am attaching below the actual >> xorg.conf file >> >> I looked for trident drivers as it declares there ias one on that sun >> server, but nothing on the net, or if somebody has >> any other ideas, all would be welcome >> >> Thanks in advance for your help >> >> Jose >> >> -------------------------------------------- >> >> # /.../ >> # SaX generated X11 config file >> # Created on: 2006-09-27T11:35:52-0400. >> # >> # Version: 7.1 >> # Contact: Marcus Schaefer , 2002 >> # >> # Automatically generated by [ISaX] (7.1) >> # PLEASE DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE! >> # >> Section "Files" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc:unscaled" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/local" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi:unscaled" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi:unscaled" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/URW" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/PEX" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin2/misc:unscaled" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin2/75dpi:unscaled" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin2/100dpi:unscaled" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin2/Type1" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin7/75dpi:unscaled" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/baekmuk:unscaled" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/japanese:unscaled" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/kwintv" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/truetype" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/uni:unscaled" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/CID" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/ucs/misc:unscaled" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/ucs/75dpi:unscaled" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/ucs/100dpi:unscaled" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/hellas/misc:unscaled" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/hellas/75dpi:unscaled" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/hellas/100dpi:unscaled" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/hellas/Type1" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/sgi:unscaled" >> FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/xtest" >> FontPath "/opt/kde3/share/fonts" >> EndSection >> >> Section "ServerFlags" >> Option "AllowMouseOpenFail" >> EndSection >> >> Section "Module" >> Load "freetype" >> Load "type1" >> Load "dbe" >> Load "glx" >> Load "extmod" >> Load "v4l" >> EndSection >> >> Section "InputDevice" >> Driver "kbd" >> Identifier "Keyboard[0]" >> Option "Protocol" "Standard" >> Option "XkbLayout" "us" >> Option "XkbModel" "pc104" >> Option "XkbRules" "xfree86" >> EndSection >> >> Section "InputDevice" >> Driver "mouse" >> Identifier "Mouse[1]" >> Option "Buttons" "7" >> Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" >> Option "Name" "ImExPS/2 Generic Explorer >> Mouse" >> Option "Protocol" "explorerps/2" >> Option "Vendor" "Sysp" >> Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" >> EndSection >> >> Section "Monitor" >> DisplaySize 340 270 >> HorizSync 28-60 >> Identifier "Monitor[0]" >> ModelName "1024X768 at 60HZ" >> Option "DPMS" >> VendorName "--> LCD" >> VertRefresh 50-60 >> UseModes "Modes[0]" >> EndSection >> >> Section "Modes" >> Identifier "Modes[0]" >> Modeline "1024x768" 61.89 1024 1080 1184 1344 768 >> 769 772 794 >> Modeline "800x600" 36.88 800 832 912 1024 600 601 >> 604 621 >> Modeline "768x576" 33.74 768 792 872 976 576 577 >> 580 596 >> Modeline "640x480" 23.06 640 656 720 800 480 481 >> 484 497 >> EndSection >> >> Section "Screen" >> DefaultDepth 24 >> SubSection "Display" >> Depth 15 >> Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "768x576" >> "640x480" >> EndSubSection >> SubSection "Display" >> Depth 16 >> Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "768x576" >> "640x480" >> EndSubSection >> SubSection "Display" >> Depth 24 >> Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "768x576" >> "640x480" >> EndSubSection >> SubSection "Display" >> Depth 32 >> Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "768x576" >> "640x480" >> EndSubSection >> SubSection "Display" >> Depth 8 >> Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "768x576" >> "640x480" >> EndSubSection >> Device "Device[0]" >> Identifier "Screen[0]" >> Monitor "Monitor[0]" >> EndSection >> >> Section "Device" >> BoardName "9880" >> BusID "1:5:0" >> Driver "trident" >> Identifier "Device[0]" >> Screen 0 >> VendorName "Trident" >> EndSection >> >> Section "ServerLayout" >> Identifier "Layout[all]" >> InputDevice "Keyboard[0]" "CoreKeyboard" >> InputDevice "Mouse[1]" "CorePointer" >> Option "Clone" "off" >> Option "Xinerama" "off" >> Screen "Screen[0]" >> EndSection >> >> Section "DRI" >> Group "video" >> Mode 0660 >> EndSection >> >> Section "Extensions" >> EndSection >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > You might want to post this question to SLE > Hi Thanks, I am looking more for a trident 9880 linux driver as I believe that the root of the problem, if anybody knows their site or hints where I could get drivers for those kind of video crads it would be really helpfull -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 13:18:09 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:18:09 -0400 Subject: Samba3 + WinXP problem In-Reply-To: <451AF61F.3090407-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <451AF61F.3090407@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20060928131809.GW13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 06:07:27PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > I've got a very frustrating problem at one of my job's client's > networks that I administer. It seems that, come heck or high water, > Windows XP (SP2) insists that a domain user who is added to the local > machine's Administrator group will only get Guest privileges. > > This causes problems because the only way I can install software (inc. > updates) is to login to the local machine instead of the domain. I have > tried switching between tdbsam and smbpasswd backends, I have remapped > my groups several times... I am stumped. > > If anyone is clueful on this, I would be *very* greatful as the > client is getting impatient and I am feeling the pressure. > > Thanks all! > > Madison (who really hates all things windows... *sigh* ;) ). > > PS - If it helps, I'll post my smb.conf file (or anything else > potentially helpful). Which version of samba? I know many of the more recent versions solved a lot of problems with versions of XP. At least that is what the release notes/changelogs say. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 13:25:59 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:25:59 -0400 Subject: Motherboard Question In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880609272046x1e058453y7f0f7569c8b1d83-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880609272046x1e058453y7f0f7569c8b1d83@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060928132559.GX13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 11:46:34PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > This may be a bit off topic but what type of processor would you guy > suggest for computational performance. I have seen some posts about AMD > being better however how is the Intel DUO performing? Is it currently better > then what AMD Has to offer? The Core 2 Duo (not the Core Duo) certainly seems to be beating the Athlon 64 X2 for performance so far. It is also still rather hard to find for sale anywhere (most places either don't have them yet, or they are sold out, except maybe the lowest end models). This is probably the main reason AMD cut the cost of most of the athlon 64 and X2 prices by about 50% when the Core 2 Duo was released. They had to do that to make the price/performance ratio even out. It would be nice if intel could try planning ahead once in a while, given there are so many socket 775 boards out there, and the majority can't run a Core 2 Duo because they didn't plan for future power requirements, while with AMD, if the CPU fits in the socket, then it should work on the board, with at most a BIOS update to recognize that particular CPU. It really is much simpler, and potentially more future proof if you believe in upgrading components over time. For high end multiprocessor, you still can't beat the Opteron. The Xeon still has the shared front side bus to memory bandwidth problem and will for some years yet. In a few months there will also be the AMD "4x4" systems which will be dual socket F boards which will take two X2 processors, of course with seperate memory per cpu as per normal AMD setup, which intel will have a hard time matching, assuming you have software that can make use of 4 cpu cores and that much memory bandwidth. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 13:31:10 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:31:10 -0400 Subject: LF laptop for IPCOP firewall In-Reply-To: <1159440194.3395.72.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <451B4F43.2000206@knet.ca> <1159440194.3395.72.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060928133110.GY13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 06:43:14AM -0400, John Van Ostrand wrote: > Why two identical NICs? Shouldn't you be able to use the on-board NIC > (if it has one) and any other Linux supported PCMCIA or USB? A 486 laptop would almost certainly not have built in networking. Back then there were too many network types in use, so you never knew what the user would want. Could be Token ring (4 or 16Mbit versions, with any of the possible connector types), could be 10BaseT, 10Base2 10Base5, 100BaseTX, 100BaseT4, etc. Hard to build all those in to the laptop, so pcmcia it was. Finding two pcmcia cards that will fit in at the same time could be tricky for a 486, since you have to get pcmcia cards, not cardbus cards (it won't run those). If you want cards with solid build in connectors, you would have to find the type where two cards wrap their connectors side by side (I forget the name of the company that made those. It was bought by intel at some point), or you could use the cards with dongles, and hope they don't break (3c575 as far as I recall was popular for those). A built in CD-ROM is also unlikely on that level of machine. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 13:33:15 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:33:15 -0400 Subject: Display problem In-Reply-To: <451BD364.50707-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <451BCB58.2020306@totaltravelmarketing.com> <200609280834.39200.jab@muskokatech.ca> <451BD364.50707@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <20060928133315.GZ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 08:51:32AM -0500, Jose wrote: > Thanks, I am looking more for a trident 9880 linux driver as I believe > that the root of the problem, if anybody knows their site or hints where > I could get drivers for those kind of video crads it would be really > helpfull What is in the X log file? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 14:37:44 2006 From: jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:37:44 -0500 Subject: Display problem In-Reply-To: <20060928133315.GZ13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <451BCB58.2020306@totaltravelmarketing.com> <200609280834.39200.jab@muskokatech.ca> <451BD364.50707@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20060928133315.GZ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <451BDE38.8070603@totaltravelmarketing.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 08:51:32AM -0500, Jose wrote: > >> Thanks, I am looking more for a trident 9880 linux driver as I believe >> that the root of the problem, if anybody knows their site or hints where >> I could get drivers for those kind of video crads it would be really >> helpfull >> > > What is in the X log file? > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > Hi Lennart Here is a copy of the log: X Window System Version 6.8.2 Release Date: 9 February 2005 X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 6.8.2 Build Operating System: SuSE Linux [ELF] SuSE Current Operating System: Linux vmserver2 2.6.13-15.12-smp #1 SMP Thu Aug 24 11:23:58 UTC 2006 x86_64 Build Date: 13 September 2006 Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.X.Org to make sure that you have the latest version. Module Loader present Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Wed Sep 27 14:01:43 2006 (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" (==) ServerLayout "Layout[all]" (**) |-->Screen "Screen[0]" (0) (**) | |-->Monitor "Monitor[0]" (**) | |-->Device "Device[0]" (**) |-->Input Device "Keyboard[0]" (**) |-->Input Device "Mouse[1]" (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/PEX" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin2/misc" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin2/75dpi" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin2/100dpi" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin2/Type1" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/latin7/75dpi" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/baekmuk" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/japanese" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/kwintv" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/ucs/misc" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/ucs/75dpi" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/ucs/100dpi" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/hellas/misc" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/hellas/75dpi" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/hellas/100dpi" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/hellas/Type1" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/sgi" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/xtest" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (**) FontPath set to "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc:unscaled,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/local,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi:unscaled,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/URW,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/truetype,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/uni:unscaled,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/CID,/opt/kde3/share/fonts" (==) RgbPath set to "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb" (==) ModulePath set to "/usr/X11R6/lib64/modules" (**) Option "AllowMouseOpenFail" (**) Option "Xinerama" "off" (WW) Open APM failed (/dev/apm_bios) (No such file or directory) (II) Module ABI versions: X.Org ANSI C Emulation: 0.2 X.Org Video Driver: 0.7 X.Org XInput driver : 0.4 X.Org Server Extension : 0.2 X.Org Font Renderer : 0.4 (II) Loader running on linux (II) LoadModule: "bitmap" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/fonts/libbitmap.a (II) Module bitmap: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 6.8.2, module version = 1.0.0 Module class: X.Org Font Renderer ABI class: X.Org Font Renderer, version 0.4 (II) Loading font Bitmap (II) LoadModule: "pcidata" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/libpcidata.a (II) Module pcidata: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 6.8.2, module version = 1.0.0 ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 0.7 (--) using VT number 7 (II) PCI: PCI scan (all values are in hex) (II) PCI: 00:06:0: chip 1022,7460 card 0000,0000 rev 07 class 06,04,00 hdr 01 (II) PCI: 00:07:0: chip 1022,7468 card 1022,7468 rev 05 class 06,01,00 hdr 80 (II) PCI: 00:07:1: chip 1022,7469 card 17c2,0020 rev 03 class 01,01,8a hdr 00 (II) PCI: 00:07:3: chip 1022,746b card 17c2,0020 rev 05 class 06,80,00 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 00:0a:0: chip 1022,7450 card 0000,0000 rev 12 class 06,04,00 hdr 81 (II) PCI: 00:0a:1: chip 1022,7451 card 17c2,0020 rev 01 class 08,00,10 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 00:0b:0: chip 1022,7450 card 0000,0000 rev 12 class 06,04,00 hdr 81 (II) PCI: 00:0b:1: chip 1022,7451 card 17c2,0020 rev 01 class 08,00,10 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 00:18:0: chip 1022,1100 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,00,00 hdr 80 (II) PCI: 00:18:1: chip 1022,1101 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,00,00 hdr 80 (II) PCI: 00:18:2: chip 1022,1102 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,00,00 hdr 80 (II) PCI: 00:18:3: chip 1022,1103 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,00,00 hdr 80 (II) PCI: 00:19:0: chip 1022,1100 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,00,00 hdr 80 (II) PCI: 00:19:1: chip 1022,1101 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,00,00 hdr 80 (II) PCI: 00:19:2: chip 1022,1102 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,00,00 hdr 80 (II) PCI: 00:19:3: chip 1022,1103 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,00,00 hdr 80 (II) PCI: 00:1a:0: chip 1022,1100 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,00,00 hdr 80 (II) PCI: 00:1a:1: chip 1022,1101 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,00,00 hdr 80 (II) PCI: 00:1a:2: chip 1022,1102 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,00,00 hdr 80 (II) PCI: 00:1a:3: chip 1022,1103 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,00,00 hdr 80 (II) PCI: 00:1b:0: chip 1022,1100 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,00,00 hdr 80 (II) PCI: 00:1b:1: chip 1022,1101 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,00,00 hdr 80 (II) PCI: 00:1b:2: chip 1022,1102 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,00,00 hdr 80 (II) PCI: 00:1b:3: chip 1022,1103 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,00,00 hdr 80 (II) PCI: 01:00:0: chip 1022,7464 card 17c2,0020 rev 0b class 0c,03,10 hdr 80 (II) PCI: 01:00:1: chip 1022,7464 card 17c2,0020 rev 0b class 0c,03,10 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 01:05:0: chip 1023,9880 card 17c2,0020 rev 3a class 03,00,00 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 02:02:0: chip 14e4,16a7 card 17c2,0020 rev 02 class 02,00,00 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 02:03:0: chip 14e4,16a7 card 17c2,0020 rev 02 class 02,00,00 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 02:04:0: chip 1000,0030 card 17c2,0020 rev 07 class 01,00,00 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 20:01:0: chip 1022,7450 card 0000,0000 rev 12 class 06,04,00 hdr 81 (II) PCI: 20:01:1: chip 1022,7451 card 17c2,0020 rev 01 class 08,00,10 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 20:02:0: chip 1022,7450 card 0000,0000 rev 12 class 06,04,00 hdr 81 (II) PCI: 20:02:1: chip 1022,7451 card 17c2,0020 rev 01 class 08,00,10 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 20:03:0: chip 1022,7450 card 0000,0000 rev 12 class 06,04,00 hdr 81 (II) PCI: 20:03:1: chip 1022,7451 card 17c2,0020 rev 01 class 08,00,10 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 20:04:0: chip 1022,7450 card 0000,0000 rev 12 class 06,04,00 hdr 81 (II) PCI: 20:04:1: chip 1022,7451 card 17c2,0020 rev 01 class 08,00,10 hdr 00 (II) PCI: End of PCI scan (II) PCI-to-PCI bridge: (II) Bus 1: bridge is at (0:6:0), (0,1,1), BCTRL: 0x000f (VGA_EN is set) (II) Bus 1 non-prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0xe4100000 - 0xe57fffff (0x1700000) MX[B] (II) Bus 1 prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0xe5900000 - 0xe59fffff (0x100000) MX[B] (II) PCI-to-ISA bridge: (II) Bus -1: bridge is at (0:7:0), (0,-1,-1), BCTRL: 0x0008 (VGA_EN is set) (II) PCI-to-PCI bridge: (II) Bus 2: bridge is at (0:10:0), (0,2,2), BCTRL: 0x0007 (VGA_EN is cleared) (II) Bus 2 I/O range: [0] -1 0 0x00002000 - 0x000020ff (0x100) IX[B] [1] -1 0 0x00002400 - 0x000024ff (0x100) IX[B] [2] -1 0 0x00002800 - 0x000028ff (0x100) IX[B] [3] -1 0 0x00002c00 - 0x00002cff (0x100) IX[B] (II) Bus 2 non-prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0xe5800000 - 0xe58fffff (0x100000) MX[B] (II) Bus 2 prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0xe5a00000 - 0xe5afffff (0x100000) MX[B] (II) PCI-to-PCI bridge: (II) Bus 3: bridge is at (0:11:0), (0,3,3), BCTRL: 0x0007 (VGA_EN is cleared) (II) Host-to-PCI bridge: (II) Bus 0: bridge is at (0:24:0), (0,0,45), BCTRL: 0x0008 (VGA_EN is set) (II) Bus 0 I/O range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0000ffff (0x10000) IX[B] (II) Bus 0 non-prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x100000000) MX[B] (II) Bus 0 prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x100000000) MX[B] (II) PCI-to-PCI bridge: (II) Bus 33: bridge is at (32:1:0), (32,33,36), BCTRL: 0x0007 (VGA_EN is cleared) (II) Bus 33 I/O range: [0] -1 0 0x00003000 - 0x000030ff (0x100) IX[B] [1] -1 0 0x00003400 - 0x000034ff (0x100) IX[B] [2] -1 0 0x00003800 - 0x000038ff (0x100) IX[B] [3] -1 0 0x00003c00 - 0x00003cff (0x100) IX[B] (II) Bus 33 non-prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0xe6000000 - 0xe6ffffff (0x1000000) MX[B] (II) Bus 33 prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0xec000000 - 0xefffffff (0x4000000) MX[B] (II) PCI-to-PCI bridge: (II) Bus 37: bridge is at (32:2:0), (32,37,40), BCTRL: 0x0007 (VGA_EN is cleared) (II) Bus 37 I/O range: [0] -1 0 0x00004000 - 0x000040ff (0x100) IX[B] [1] -1 0 0x00004400 - 0x000044ff (0x100) IX[B] [2] -1 0 0x00004800 - 0x000048ff (0x100) IX[B] [3] -1 0 0x00004c00 - 0x00004cff (0x100) IX[B] (II) Bus 37 non-prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0xe7000000 - 0xe7ffffff (0x1000000) MX[B] (II) Bus 37 prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0xf0000000 - 0xf3ffffff (0x4000000) MX[B] (II) PCI-to-PCI bridge: (II) Bus 41: bridge is at (32:3:0), (32,41,44), BCTRL: 0x0007 (VGA_EN is cleared) (II) Bus 41 I/O range: [0] -1 0 0x00005000 - 0x000050ff (0x100) IX[B] [1] -1 0 0x00005400 - 0x000054ff (0x100) IX[B] [2] -1 0 0x00005800 - 0x000058ff (0x100) IX[B] [3] -1 0 0x00005c00 - 0x00005cff (0x100) IX[B] (II) Bus 41 non-prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0xe8000000 - 0xe8ffffff (0x1000000) MX[B] (II) Bus 41 prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0xf4000000 - 0xf7ffffff (0x4000000) MX[B] (II) PCI-to-PCI bridge: (II) Bus 45: bridge is at (32:4:0), (32,45,48), BCTRL: 0x0007 (VGA_EN is cleared) (II) Bus 45 I/O range: [0] -1 0 0x00006000 - 0x000060ff (0x100) IX[B] [1] -1 0 0x00006400 - 0x000064ff (0x100) IX[B] [2] -1 0 0x00006800 - 0x000068ff (0x100) IX[B] [3] -1 0 0x00006c00 - 0x00006cff (0x100) IX[B] (II) Bus 45 non-prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0xe9000000 - 0xe9ffffff (0x1000000) MX[B] (II) Bus 45 prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0xf8000000 - 0xfbffffff (0x4000000) MX[B] (II) Host-to-PCI bridge: (II) Bus 32: bridge is at (0:0:0), (32,32,0), BCTRL: 0x0008 (VGA_EN is set) (II) Bus 32 I/O range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0000ffff (0x10000) IX[B] (II) Bus 32 non-prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x100000000) MX[B] (II) Bus 32 prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x100000000) MX[B] (--) PCI:*(1:5:0) Trident Microsystems Blade 3D PCI/AGP rev 58, Mem @ 0xe5000000/23, 0xe4100000/17, 0xe4800000/23 (II) Addressable bus resource ranges are [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x100000000) MX[B] [1] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0000ffff (0x10000) IX[B] (II) OS-reported resource ranges: [0] -1 0 0xffe00000 - 0xffffffff (0x200000) MX[B](B) [1] -1 0 0x00100000 - 0x3fffffff (0x3ff00000) MX[B]E(B) [2] -1 0 0x000f0000 - 0x000fffff (0x10000) MX[B] [3] -1 0 0x000c0000 - 0x000effff (0x30000) MX[B] [4] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0009ffff (0xa0000) MX[B] [5] -1 0 0x0000ffff - 0x0000ffff (0x1) IX[B] [6] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x000000ff (0x100) IX[B] (II) Active PCI resource ranges: [0] -1 0 0xe5b07000 - 0xe5b07fff (0x1000) MX[B] [1] -1 0 0xe5b05000 - 0xe5b05fff (0x1000) MX[B] [2] -1 0 0xe5b03000 - 0xe5b03fff (0x1000) MX[B] [3] -1 0 0xe5b01000 - 0xe5b01fff (0x1000) MX[B] [4] -1 0 0xe5820000 - 0xe582ffff (0x10000) MX[B] [5] -1 0 0xe5830000 - 0xe583ffff (0x10000) MX[B] [6] -1 0 0xe5810000 - 0xe581ffff (0x10000) MX[B] [7] -1 0 0xe5800000 - 0xe580ffff (0x10000) MX[B] [8] -1 0 0xe4121000 - 0xe4121fff (0x1000) MX[B] [9] -1 0 0xe4120000 - 0xe4120fff (0x1000) MX[B] [10] -1 0 0xe4001000 - 0xe4001fff (0x1000) MX[B] [11] -1 0 0xe4000000 - 0xe4000fff (0x1000) MX[B] [12] -1 0 0xe4800000 - 0xe4ffffff (0x800000) MX[B](B) [13] -1 0 0xe4100000 - 0xe411ffff (0x20000) MX[B](B) [14] -1 0 0xe5000000 - 0xe57fffff (0x800000) MX[B](B) [15] -1 0 0x00002000 - 0x000020ff (0x100) IX[B] [16] -1 0 0x00001000 - 0x0000100f (0x10) IX[B] (II) Active PCI resource ranges after removing overlaps: [0] -1 0 0xe5b07000 - 0xe5b07fff (0x1000) MX[B] [1] -1 0 0xe5b05000 - 0xe5b05fff (0x1000) MX[B] [2] -1 0 0xe5b03000 - 0xe5b03fff (0x1000) MX[B] [3] -1 0 0xe5b01000 - 0xe5b01fff (0x1000) MX[B] [4] -1 0 0xe5820000 - 0xe582ffff (0x10000) MX[B] [5] -1 0 0xe5830000 - 0xe583ffff (0x10000) MX[B] [6] -1 0 0xe5810000 - 0xe581ffff (0x10000) MX[B] [7] -1 0 0xe5800000 - 0xe580ffff (0x10000) MX[B] [8] -1 0 0xe4121000 - 0xe4121fff (0x1000) MX[B] [9] -1 0 0xe4120000 - 0xe4120fff (0x1000) MX[B] [10] -1 0 0xe4001000 - 0xe4001fff (0x1000) MX[B] [11] -1 0 0xe4000000 - 0xe4000fff (0x1000) MX[B] [12] -1 0 0xe4800000 - 0xe4ffffff (0x800000) MX[B](B) [13] -1 0 0xe4100000 - 0xe411ffff (0x20000) MX[B](B) [14] -1 0 0xe5000000 - 0xe57fffff (0x800000) MX[B](B) [15] -1 0 0x00002000 - 0x000020ff (0x100) IX[B] [16] -1 0 0x00001000 - 0x0000100f (0x10) IX[B] (II) OS-reported resource ranges after removing overlaps with PCI: [0] -1 0 0xffe00000 - 0xffffffff (0x200000) MX[B](B) [1] -1 0 0x00100000 - 0x3fffffff (0x3ff00000) MX[B]E(B) [2] -1 0 0x000f0000 - 0x000fffff (0x10000) MX[B] [3] -1 0 0x000c0000 - 0x000effff (0x30000) MX[B] [4] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0009ffff (0xa0000) MX[B] [5] -1 0 0x0000ffff - 0x0000ffff (0x1) IX[B] [6] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x000000ff (0x100) IX[B] (II) All system resource ranges: [0] -1 0 0xffe00000 - 0xffffffff (0x200000) MX[B](B) [1] -1 0 0x00100000 - 0x3fffffff (0x3ff00000) MX[B]E(B) [2] -1 0 0x000f0000 - 0x000fffff (0x10000) MX[B] [3] -1 0 0x000c0000 - 0x000effff (0x30000) MX[B] [4] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0009ffff (0xa0000) MX[B] [5] -1 0 0xe5b07000 - 0xe5b07fff (0x1000) MX[B] [6] -1 0 0xe5b05000 - 0xe5b05fff (0x1000) MX[B] [7] -1 0 0xe5b03000 - 0xe5b03fff (0x1000) MX[B] [8] -1 0 0xe5b01000 - 0xe5b01fff (0x1000) MX[B] [9] -1 0 0xe5820000 - 0xe582ffff (0x10000) MX[B] [10] -1 0 0xe5830000 - 0xe583ffff (0x10000) MX[B] [11] -1 0 0xe5810000 - 0xe581ffff (0x10000) MX[B] [12] -1 0 0xe5800000 - 0xe580ffff (0x10000) MX[B] [13] -1 0 0xe4121000 - 0xe4121fff (0x1000) MX[B] [14] -1 0 0xe4120000 - 0xe4120fff (0x1000) MX[B] [15] -1 0 0xe4001000 - 0xe4001fff (0x1000) MX[B] [16] -1 0 0xe4000000 - 0xe4000fff (0x1000) MX[B] [17] -1 0 0xe4800000 - 0xe4ffffff (0x800000) MX[B](B) [18] -1 0 0xe4100000 - 0xe411ffff (0x20000) MX[B](B) [19] -1 0 0xe5000000 - 0xe57fffff (0x800000) MX[B](B) [20] -1 0 0x0000ffff - 0x0000ffff (0x1) IX[B] [21] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x000000ff (0x100) IX[B] [22] -1 0 0x00002000 - 0x000020ff (0x100) IX[B] [23] -1 0 0x00001000 - 0x0000100f (0x10) IX[B] (II) LoadModule: "freetype" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/fonts/libfreetype.so (II) Module freetype: vendor="X.Org Foundation & the After X-TT Project" compiled for 6.8.2, module version = 2.1.0 Module class: X.Org Font Renderer ABI class: X.Org Font Renderer, version 0.4 (II) Loading font FreeType (II) LoadModule: "type1" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/fonts/libtype1.a (II) Module type1: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 6.8.2, module version = 1.0.2 Module class: X.Org Font Renderer ABI class: X.Org Font Renderer, version 0.4 (II) Loading font Type1 (II) Loading font CID (II) LoadModule: "dbe" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/extensions/libdbe.a (II) Module dbe: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 6.8.2, module version = 1.0.0 Module class: X.Org Server Extension ABI class: X.Org Server Extension, version 0.2 (II) Loading extension DOUBLE-BUFFER (II) LoadModule: "glx" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/extensions/libglx.a (II) Module glx: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 6.8.2, module version = 1.0.0 ABI class: X.Org Server Extension, version 0.2 (II) Loading sub module "GLcore" (II) LoadModule: "GLcore" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/extensions/libGLcore.a (II) Skipping "/usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/extensions/libGLcore.a:m_debug_clip.o": object file contains no symbols (II) Skipping "/usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/extensions/libGLcore.a:m_debug_norm.o": object file contains no symbols (II) Skipping "/usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/extensions/libGLcore.a:m_debug_xform.o": object file contains no symbols (II) Module GLcore: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 6.8.2, module version = 1.0.0 ABI class: X.Org Server Extension, version 0.2 (II) Loading extension GLX (II) LoadModule: "extmod" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/extensions/libextmod.a (II) Module extmod: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 6.8.2, module version = 1.0.0 Module class: X.Org Server Extension ABI class: X.Org Server Extension, version 0.2 (II) Loading extension SHAPE (II) Loading extension MIT-SUNDRY-NONSTANDARD (II) Loading extension BIG-REQUESTS (II) Loading extension SYNC (II) Loading extension MIT-SCREEN-SAVER (II) Loading extension XC-MISC (II) Loading extension XFree86-VidModeExtension (II) Loading extension XFree86-Misc (II) Loading extension XFree86-DGA (II) Loading extension DPMS (II) Loading extension TOG-CUP (II) Loading extension Extended-Visual-Information (II) Loading extension XVideo (II) Loading extension XVideo-MotionCompensation (II) Loading extension X-Resource (II) LoadModule: "v4l" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/drivers/linux/v4l_drv.o (II) Module v4l: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 6.8.2, module version = 0.0.1 ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 0.7 (II) LoadModule: "trident" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/drivers/trident_drv.o (II) Module trident: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 6.8.2, module version = 1.0.0 Module class: X.Org Video Driver ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 0.7 (II) LoadModule: "kbd" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/input/kbd_drv.o (II) Module kbd: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 6.8.2, module version = 1.0.0 Module class: X.Org XInput Driver ABI class: X.Org XInput driver, version 0.4 (II) LoadModule: "mouse" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/input/mouse_drv.o (II) Module mouse: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 6.8.2, module version = 1.0.0 Module class: X.Org XInput Driver ABI class: X.Org XInput driver, version 0.4 (II) v4l driver for Video4Linux (II) TRIDENT: driver for Trident chipsets: tvga9000, tvga9000i, tvga8900c, tvga8900d, tvga9200cxr, tgui9400cxi, cyber9320, cyber9388, cyber9397, cyber9397dvd, cyber9520, cyber9525dvd, cyberblade/e4, tgui9420dgi, tgui9440agi, tgui9660, tgui9680, providia9682, providia9685, cyber9382, cyber9385, 3dimage975, 3dimage985, blade3d, cyberbladei7, cyberbladei7d, cyberbladei1, cyberbladei1d, cyberbladeAi1, cyberbladeAi1d, bladeXP, cyberbladeXPAi1, cyberbladeXP4 (II) Primary Device is: PCI 01:05:0 (--) Chipset blade3d found (II) resource ranges after xf86ClaimFixedResources() call: [0] -1 0 0xffe00000 - 0xffffffff (0x200000) MX[B](B) [1] -1 0 0x00100000 - 0x3fffffff (0x3ff00000) MX[B]E(B) [2] -1 0 0x000f0000 - 0x000fffff (0x10000) MX[B] [3] -1 0 0x000c0000 - 0x000effff (0x30000) MX[B] [4] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0009ffff (0xa0000) MX[B] [5] -1 0 0xe5b07000 - 0xe5b07fff (0x1000) MX[B] [6] -1 0 0xe5b05000 - 0xe5b05fff (0x1000) MX[B] [7] -1 0 0xe5b03000 - 0xe5b03fff (0x1000) MX[B] [8] -1 0 0xe5b01000 - 0xe5b01fff (0x1000) MX[B] [9] -1 0 0xe5820000 - 0xe582ffff (0x10000) MX[B] [10] -1 0 0xe5830000 - 0xe583ffff (0x10000) MX[B] [11] -1 0 0xe5810000 - 0xe581ffff (0x10000) MX[B] [12] -1 0 0xe5800000 - 0xe580ffff (0x10000) MX[B] [13] -1 0 0xe4121000 - 0xe4121fff (0x1000) MX[B] [14] -1 0 0xe4120000 - 0xe4120fff (0x1000) MX[B] [15] -1 0 0xe4001000 - 0xe4001fff (0x1000) MX[B] [16] -1 0 0xe4000000 - 0xe4000fff (0x1000) MX[B] [17] -1 0 0xe4800000 - 0xe4ffffff (0x800000) MX[B](B) [18] -1 0 0xe4100000 - 0xe411ffff (0x20000) MX[B](B) [19] -1 0 0xe5000000 - 0xe57fffff (0x800000) MX[B](B) [20] -1 0 0x0000ffff - 0x0000ffff (0x1) IX[B] [21] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x000000ff (0x100) IX[B] [22] -1 0 0x00002000 - 0x000020ff (0x100) IX[B] [23] -1 0 0x00001000 - 0x0000100f (0x10) IX[B] (II) resource ranges after probing: [0] -1 0 0xffe00000 - 0xffffffff (0x200000) MX[B](B) [1] -1 0 0x00100000 - 0x3fffffff (0x3ff00000) MX[B]E(B) [2] -1 0 0x000f0000 - 0x000fffff (0x10000) MX[B] [3] -1 0 0x000c0000 - 0x000effff (0x30000) MX[B] [4] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0009ffff (0xa0000) MX[B] [5] -1 0 0xe5b07000 - 0xe5b07fff (0x1000) MX[B] [6] -1 0 0xe5b05000 - 0xe5b05fff (0x1000) MX[B] [7] -1 0 0xe5b03000 - 0xe5b03fff (0x1000) MX[B] [8] -1 0 0xe5b01000 - 0xe5b01fff (0x1000) MX[B] [9] -1 0 0xe5820000 - 0xe582ffff (0x10000) MX[B] [10] -1 0 0xe5830000 - 0xe583ffff (0x10000) MX[B] [11] -1 0 0xe5810000 - 0xe581ffff (0x10000) MX[B] [12] -1 0 0xe5800000 - 0xe580ffff (0x10000) MX[B] [13] -1 0 0xe4121000 - 0xe4121fff (0x1000) MX[B] [14] -1 0 0xe4120000 - 0xe4120fff (0x1000) MX[B] [15] -1 0 0xe4001000 - 0xe4001fff (0x1000) MX[B] [16] -1 0 0xe4000000 - 0xe4000fff (0x1000) MX[B] [17] -1 0 0xe4800000 - 0xe4ffffff (0x800000) MX[B](B) [18] -1 0 0xe4100000 - 0xe411ffff (0x20000) MX[B](B) [19] -1 0 0xe5000000 - 0xe57fffff (0x800000) MX[B](B) [20] 0 0 0x000a0000 - 0x000affff (0x10000) MS[B] [21] 0 0 0x000b0000 - 0x000b7fff (0x8000) MS[B] [22] 0 0 0x000b8000 - 0x000bffff (0x8000) MS[B] [23] -1 0 0x0000ffff - 0x0000ffff (0x1) IX[B] [24] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x000000ff (0x100) IX[B] [25] -1 0 0x00002000 - 0x000020ff (0x100) IX[B] [26] -1 0 0x00001000 - 0x0000100f (0x10) IX[B] [27] 0 0 0x000003b0 - 0x000003bb (0xc) IS[B] [28] 0 0 0x000003c0 - 0x000003df (0x20) IS[B] (II) Setting vga for screen 0. (**) TRIDENT(0): Depth 24, (--) framebuffer bpp 32 (II) Loading sub module "vgahw" (II) LoadModule: "vgahw" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/libvgahw.a (II) Module vgahw: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 6.8.2, module version = 0.1.0 ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 0.7 (II) TRIDENT(0): vgaHWGetIOBase: hwp->IOBase is 0x03d0, hwp->PIOOffset is 0x0000 (II) Loading sub module "ramdac" (II) LoadModule: "ramdac" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/libramdac.a (II) Module ramdac: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 6.8.2, module version = 0.1.0 ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 0.7 (==) TRIDENT(0): RGB weight 888 (==) TRIDENT(0): Default visual is TrueColor (==) TRIDENT(0): Using gamma correction (1.0, 1.0, 1.0) (==) TRIDENT(0): Linear framebuffer at 0xE5000000 (--) TRIDENT(0): IO registers at 0xE4100000 (II) Loading sub module "vbe" (II) LoadModule: "vbe" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/libvbe.a (II) Module vbe: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 6.8.2, module version = 1.1.0 ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 0.7 (II) Loading sub module "int10" (II) LoadModule: "int10" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/linux/libint10.a (II) Module int10: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 6.8.2, module version = 1.0.0 ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 0.7 (II) TRIDENT(0): initializing int10 (II) TRIDENT(0): Primary V_BIOS segment is: 0xc000 (II) TRIDENT(0): VESA BIOS detected (II) TRIDENT(0): VESA VBE Version 2.0 (II) TRIDENT(0): VESA VBE Total Mem: 8192 kB (II) TRIDENT(0): VESA VBE OEM: Trident Blade 3D (II) TRIDENT(0): VESA VBE OEM Software Rev: 2.0 (II) TRIDENT(0): VESA VBE OEM Vendor: TRIDENT MICROSYSTEMS INC. (II) TRIDENT(0): VESA VBE OEM Product: Blade 3D (II) TRIDENT(0): VESA VBE OEM Product Rev: J 6.6 (47) (II) Loading sub module "ddc" (II) LoadModule: "ddc" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/libddc.a (II) Module ddc: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 6.8.2, module version = 1.0.0 ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 0.7 (II) TRIDENT(0): VESA VBE DDC supported (II) TRIDENT(0): VESA VBE DDC Level 2 (II) TRIDENT(0): VESA VBE DDC transfer in appr. 1 sec. (II) TRIDENT(0): VESA VBE DDC read successfully (II) Loading sub module "ddc" (II) LoadModule: "ddc" (II) Reloading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/libddc.a (II) TRIDENT(0): Manufacturer: CPQ Model: 1362 Serial#: 1161246517 (II) TRIDENT(0): Year: 2001 Week: 22 (II) TRIDENT(0): EDID Version: 1.1 (II) TRIDENT(0): Analog Display Input, Input Voltage Level: 0.700/0.700 V (II) TRIDENT(0): Sync: Separate (II) TRIDENT(0): Max H-Image Size [cm]: horiz.: 32 vert.: 24 (II) TRIDENT(0): Gamma: 2.77 (II) TRIDENT(0): DPMS capabilities: StandBy Suspend Off; RGB/Color Display (II) TRIDENT(0): redX: 0.630 redY: 0.340 greenX: 0.280 greenY: 0.601 (II) TRIDENT(0): blueX: 0.145 blueY: 0.061 whiteX: 0.283 whiteY: 0.297 (II) TRIDENT(0): Supported VESA Video Modes: (II) TRIDENT(0): 720x400 at 70Hz (II) TRIDENT(0): 720x400 at 88Hz (II) TRIDENT(0): 640x480 at 60Hz (II) TRIDENT(0): 640x480 at 67Hz (II) TRIDENT(0): 640x480 at 72Hz (II) TRIDENT(0): 640x480 at 75Hz (II) TRIDENT(0): 800x600 at 56Hz (II) TRIDENT(0): 800x600 at 60Hz (II) TRIDENT(0): 800x600 at 72Hz (II) TRIDENT(0): 800x600 at 75Hz (II) TRIDENT(0): 832x624 at 75Hz (II) TRIDENT(0): 1024x768 at 87Hz (interlaced) (II) TRIDENT(0): 1024x768 at 60Hz (II) TRIDENT(0): 1024x768 at 70Hz (II) TRIDENT(0): 1024x768 at 75Hz (II) TRIDENT(0): 1152x870 at 75Hz (II) TRIDENT(0): Manufacturer's mask: 0 (II) TRIDENT(0): Supported Future Video Modes: (II) TRIDENT(0): #0: hsize: 640 vsize 480 refresh: 85 vid: 22833 (II) TRIDENT(0): #1: hsize: 800 vsize 600 refresh: 85 vid: 22853 (II) TRIDENT(0): #2: hsize: 1024 vsize 768 refresh: 85 vid: 22881 (II) TRIDENT(0): #3: hsize: 1280 vsize 1024 refresh: 60 vid: 32897 (II) TRIDENT(0): Supported additional Video Mode: (II) TRIDENT(0): clock: 94.5 MHz Image Size: 300 x 225 mm (II) TRIDENT(0): h_active: 1024 h_sync: 1072 h_sync_end 1168 h_blank_end 1376 h_border: 0 (II) TRIDENT(0): v_active: 768 v_sync: 769 v_sync_end 772 v_blanking: 808 v_border: 0 (II) TRIDENT(0): Ranges: V min: 50 V max: 120 Hz, H min: 30 H max: 69 kHz, PixClock max 110 MHz (II) TRIDENT(0): Serial No: 122CG43HE775 (II) TRIDENT(0): Monitor name: COMPAQ S710 (--) TRIDENT(0): Revision is 130 (--) TRIDENT(0): Found Blade3D chip (--) TRIDENT(0): Unable to determine VideoRam, defaulting to 1MB (--) TRIDENT(0): Using HW cursor (--) TRIDENT(0): VideoRAM: 1024 kByte (--) TRIDENT(0): Memory Clock is 90.38 MHz (==) TRIDENT(0): Min pixel clock is 12 MHz (--) TRIDENT(0): Max pixel clock is 115 MHz (WW) TRIDENT(0): config file hsync range 28-60kHz not within DDC hsync ranges. (II) TRIDENT(0): Monitor[0]: Using hsync range of 28.00-60.00 kHz (II) TRIDENT(0): Monitor[0]: Using vrefresh range of 50.00-60.00 Hz (II) TRIDENT(0): Clock range: 12.00 to 115.00 MHz (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using mode "1024x768" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using mode "800x600" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using mode "768x576" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using mode "640x480" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "640x350" (vrefresh out of range) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "320x175" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "640x400" (vrefresh out of range) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "320x200" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "720x400" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "360x200" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "320x240" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "320x240" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "320x240" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "320x240" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "400x300" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "400x300" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "400x300" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "400x300" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "400x300" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "512x384" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "512x384" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "512x384" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "512x384" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "512x384" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1152x864" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "576x432" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1280x960" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1280x960" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1280x1024" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "640x512" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1280x1024" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "640x512" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1280x1024" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "640x512" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1600x1200" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1600x1200" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1600x1200" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1600x1200" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1600x1200" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1792x1344" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "896x672" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1792x1344" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "896x672" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1856x1392" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "928x696" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1856x1392" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "928x696" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1920x1440" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "960x720" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1920x1440" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "960x720" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "832x624" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "416x312" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1152x768" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "576x384" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1400x1050" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "700x525" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1400x1050" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "700x525" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1600x1024" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "800x512" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1920x1440" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "960x720" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "2048x1536" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "2048x1536" (insufficient memory for mode) (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "2048x1536" (insufficient memory for mode) (WW) TRIDENT(0): Mode pool is empty (EE) TRIDENT(0): No valid modes found (II) UnloadModule: "trident" (II) UnloadModule: "ddc" (II) UnloadModule: "ddc" (II) Unloading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/libddc.a (II) UnloadModule: "int10" (II) Unloading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/linux/libint10.a (II) UnloadModule: "vbe" (II) Unloading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/libvbe.a (II) UnloadModule: "ramdac" (II) Unloading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/libramdac.a (II) UnloadModule: "vgahw" (II) Unloading /usr/X11R6/lib64/modules/libvgahw.a (EE) Screen(s) found, but none have a usable configuration. Fatal server error: no screens found Please consult the The X.Org Foundation support at http://wiki.X.Org for help. Please also check the log file at "/var/log/Xorg.0.log" for additional information. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 14:53:46 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:53:46 -0400 Subject: Display problem In-Reply-To: <451BDE38.8070603-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <451BCB58.2020306@totaltravelmarketing.com> <200609280834.39200.jab@muskokatech.ca> <451BD364.50707@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20060928133315.GZ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451BDE38.8070603@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <20060928145346.GA13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 09:37:44AM -0500, Jose wrote: > (II) TRIDENT(0): Ranges: V min: 50 V max: 120 Hz, H > min: 30 H max: 69 kHz, PixClock max 110 MHz > (II) TRIDENT(0): Serial No: 122CG43HE775 > (II) TRIDENT(0): Monitor name: COMPAQ S710 > (--) TRIDENT(0): Revision is 130 > (--) TRIDENT(0): Found Blade3D chip > (--) TRIDENT(0): Unable to determine VideoRam, > defaulting to 1MB Hmm, that looks unfortunate. > (--) TRIDENT(0): Using HW cursor > (--) TRIDENT(0): VideoRAM: 1024 kByte > (--) TRIDENT(0): Memory Clock is 90.38 MHz > (==) TRIDENT(0): Min pixel clock is 12 MHz > (--) TRIDENT(0): Max pixel clock is 115 MHz > (WW) TRIDENT(0): config file hsync range 28-60kHz not > within DDC hsync ranges. > (II) TRIDENT(0): Monitor[0]: Using hsync range of > 28.00-60.00 kHz > (II) TRIDENT(0): Monitor[0]: Using vrefresh range of > 50.00-60.00 Hz > (II) TRIDENT(0): Clock range: 12.00 to 115.00 MHz > (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using mode "1024x768" > (insufficient memory for mode) And explains this problem. > (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using mode "800x600" > (insufficient memory for mode) And this one. > (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using mode "768x576" > (insufficient memory for mode) And this one. > (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using mode "640x480" > (insufficient memory for mode)A Now there are none of the modes you asked for in the config left. > (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "800x512" > (insufficient memory for mode) > (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1920x1440" > (insufficient memory for mode) > (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "960x720" > (insufficient memory for mode) > (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "2048x1536" > (insufficient memory for mode) > (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "2048x1536" > (insufficient memory for mode) > (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "2048x1536" > (insufficient memory for mode) > (WW) TRIDENT(0): Mode pool is empty > (EE) TRIDENT(0): No valid modes found And the result is that there are no valid modes left for it to use, and hence it can't give you a display. > (EE) Screen(s) found, but none have a usable > configuration. > > Fatal server error: > no screens found Which is clearly what it says here. So you have to tell it in the config exactly how much memory the video chip has since it apparently can't detect that on your particular chip. If you reduce colour depth to 8 bit, you would have enough memory even with 1MB to run your requested modes, but not in 24bit. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 17:25:47 2006 From: jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:25:47 -0500 Subject: Display problem In-Reply-To: <20060928145346.GA13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <451BCB58.2020306@totaltravelmarketing.com> <200609280834.39200.jab@muskokatech.ca> <451BD364.50707@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20060928133315.GZ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451BDE38.8070603@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20060928145346.GA13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <451C059B.8070703@totaltravelmarketing.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 09:37:44AM -0500, Jose wrote: > >> (II) TRIDENT(0): Ranges: V min: 50 V max: 120 Hz, H >> min: 30 H max: 69 kHz, PixClock max 110 MHz >> (II) TRIDENT(0): Serial No: 122CG43HE775 >> (II) TRIDENT(0): Monitor name: COMPAQ S710 >> (--) TRIDENT(0): Revision is 130 >> (--) TRIDENT(0): Found Blade3D chip >> (--) TRIDENT(0): Unable to determine VideoRam, >> defaulting to 1MB >> > > Hmm, that looks unfortunate. > > >> (--) TRIDENT(0): Using HW cursor >> (--) TRIDENT(0): VideoRAM: 1024 kByte >> (--) TRIDENT(0): Memory Clock is 90.38 MHz >> (==) TRIDENT(0): Min pixel clock is 12 MHz >> (--) TRIDENT(0): Max pixel clock is 115 MHz >> (WW) TRIDENT(0): config file hsync range 28-60kHz not >> within DDC hsync ranges. >> (II) TRIDENT(0): Monitor[0]: Using hsync range of >> 28.00-60.00 kHz >> (II) TRIDENT(0): Monitor[0]: Using vrefresh range of >> 50.00-60.00 Hz >> (II) TRIDENT(0): Clock range: 12.00 to 115.00 MHz >> (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using mode "1024x768" >> (insufficient memory for mode) >> > > And explains this problem. > > >> (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using mode "800x600" >> (insufficient memory for mode) >> > > And this one. > > >> (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using mode "768x576" >> (insufficient memory for mode) >> > > And this one. > > >> (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using mode "640x480" >> (insufficient memory for mode)A >> > > Now there are none of the modes you asked for in the config left. > > >> (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "800x512" >> (insufficient memory for mode) >> (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "1920x1440" >> (insufficient memory for mode) >> (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "960x720" >> (insufficient memory for mode) >> (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "2048x1536" >> (insufficient memory for mode) >> (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "2048x1536" >> (insufficient memory for mode) >> (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "2048x1536" >> (insufficient memory for mode) >> (WW) TRIDENT(0): Mode pool is empty >> (EE) TRIDENT(0): No valid modes found >> > > And the result is that there are no valid modes left for it to use, and > hence it can't give you a display. > > >> (EE) Screen(s) found, but none have a usable >> configuration. >> >> Fatal server error: >> no screens found >> > > Which is clearly what it says here. > > So you have to tell it in the config exactly how much memory the video > chip has since it apparently can't detect that on your particular chip. > > If you reduce colour depth to 8 bit, you would have enough memory even > with 1MB to run your requested modes, but not in 24bit. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > Hi Lennart Thanks for taking the time to look into the log, I would give it a try with the very minimal configuration, but why on failsafe mode gives me a gui?, I am still trying to figure that out?, I tried making a copy of the xrog.conf while on failsafe mode, and then reapply it, but it didn't work. Thanks again Jose -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 16:43:38 2006 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:43:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Anyone want some old computers? In-Reply-To: <200609271641.08718.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <451AA9A9.7010508@qef.com> <451ADA49.3070606@rogers.com> <200609271641.08718.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Sep 2006, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Don't you think this is a bit scary? If the 3 companies running google, > yahoo and msn combined to blacklist a website 99% of the public would > never find it. Yes I do find this concerning. > I wonder what the solution might be? More choice in the search engine market I think. No other solution is really viable I think (eg, legislation for search engines would be going down the wrong path). Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Web: www.opentrend.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 17:04:01 2006 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:04:01 -0400 Subject: Evolution 2.6.2 Sent/Drafts IMAP folders Message-ID: <1159463041.12640.1.camel@neo> Hello, Anyone having trouble updating their accounts to IMAP or other folders, in server connection preferences dialog. I get OK button grayed out and so I can't submit the information. Cheers, Pavel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 17:14:43 2006 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:14:43 -0400 Subject: Display problem In-Reply-To: <20060928133315.GZ13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <451BCB58.2020306@totaltravelmarketing.com> <200609280834.39200.jab@muskokatech.ca> <451BD364.50707@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20060928133315.GZ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1159463683.12640.3.camel@neo> > > What is in the X log file? also lspci output would help as well. pavel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 17:26:27 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:26:27 -0400 Subject: Display problem In-Reply-To: <451C059B.8070703-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <451BCB58.2020306@totaltravelmarketing.com> <200609280834.39200.jab@muskokatech.ca> <451BD364.50707@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20060928133315.GZ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451BDE38.8070603@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20060928145346.GA13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451C059B.8070703@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <20060928172627.GB13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 12:25:47PM -0500, Jose wrote: > Thanks for taking the time to look into the log, I would give it a try > with the very minimal configuration, but why on failsafe mode gives me a > gui?, I am still trying to figure that out?, I tried making a copy of > the xrog.conf while on failsafe mode, and then reapply it, but it > didn't work. Failsafe probably uses 640x480x8bit. It can do that easily even with 1MB ram. Might even use vga in 640x480x4bit. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 17:29:55 2006 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:29:55 -0400 Subject: Problems with Kubuntu Edgy and SMB mounting In-Reply-To: <451AA9FF.80408-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <451AA9FF.80408@telly.org> Message-ID: <200609281329.55390.mervc@eol.ca> On Wednesday 27 September 2006 12:42, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Well, the weekend install went surprisingly easily (for a distro I'd > never really used much before) and I'm extremely happy with the result. > There are just a couple of niggling things that I thought I'd ask about > here before raising them as probloems or bugs. Some of these are as > likely problems with my setup as bugs in Edgy. Reporting stuff is also > better accepted is a solution can be offered :-). > Before you make a final determination, I found the Ubuntu philosophy not to my liking and much prefer this distro, Kanotix. It uses the Debian repositories and I find them more up to date than Kubuntu. None of this sudo stuff for root, have terminals run as root, add admin mode apps to the K menu and so on. Kanotix.com Cheerio -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 18:39:48 2006 From: jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:39:48 -0500 Subject: Display problem In-Reply-To: <1159463683.12640.3.camel@neo> References: <451BCB58.2020306@totaltravelmarketing.com> <200609280834.39200.jab@muskokatech.ca> <451BD364.50707@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20060928133315.GZ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1159463683.12640.3.camel@neo> Message-ID: <451C16F4.7050502@totaltravelmarketing.com> Pavel Zaitsev wrote: >> What is in the X log file? >> > > also lspci output would help as well. > pavel > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > This is what I get, personally I don't think it's a blade 3d, but what suse think it is on board: vmserver2:/ # lspci 00:06.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8111 PCI (rev 07) 00:07.0 ISA bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8111 LPC (rev 05) 00:07.1 IDE interface: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8111 IDE (rev 03) 00:07.3 Bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8111 ACPI (rev 05) 00:0a.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X Bridge (rev 12) 00:0a.1 PIC: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X IOAPIC (rev 01) 00:0b.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X Bridge (rev 12) 00:0b.1 PIC: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X IOAPIC (rev 01) 00:18.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] HyperTransport Technology Configuration 00:18.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Address Map 00:18.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] DRAM Controller 00:18.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Miscellaneous Control 00:19.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] HyperTransport Technology Configuration 00:19.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Address Map 00:19.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] DRAM Controller 00:19.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Miscellaneous Control 00:1a.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] HyperTransport Technology Configuration 00:1a.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Address Map 00:1a.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] DRAM Controller 00:1a.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Miscellaneous Control 00:1b.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] HyperTransport Technology Configuration 00:1b.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Address Map 00:1b.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] DRAM Controller 00:1b.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Miscellaneous Control 01:00.0 USB Controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8111 USB (rev 0b) 01:00.1 USB Controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8111 USB (rev 0b) 01:05.0 VGA compatible controller: Trident Microsystems Blade 3D PCI/AGP (rev 3a) 02:02.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5703X Gigabit Ethernet (rev 02) 02:03.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5703X Gigabit Ethernet (rev 02) 02:04.0 SCSI storage controller: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic 53c1030 PCI-X Fusion-MPT Dual Ultra320 SCSI (rev 07) 20:01.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X Bridge (rev 12) 20:01.1 PIC: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X IOAPIC (rev 01) 20:02.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X Bridge (rev 12) 20:02.1 PIC: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X IOAPIC (rev 01) 20:03.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X Bridge (rev 12) 20:03.1 PIC: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X IOAPIC (rev 01) 20:04.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X Bridge (rev 12) 20:04.1 PIC: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X IOAPIC (rev 01) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 18:09:18 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:09:18 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> <20060926143554.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451941BE.9020101@telly.org> <20060926171603.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060928140918.1d40aba2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On 26 Sep 2006 20:51:32 -0400 Tim Writer got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > For a notebook/desktop user coming from Windows, a single large partition is > probably easier to understand. Without a /home partition, wouldn't they be kinda lost? ie., they would have no place to keep their personal files? I'm only asking because of the three distros I've tried, only Debian did not create a /home dir by default, IIRC. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 /////////////////////////// "People should not be afraid of their Government, the Government should be afraid of the People." -- V. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 18:25:02 2006 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:25:02 -0400 Subject: LF laptop for IPCOP firewall In-Reply-To: <20060928133110.GY13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <451B4F43.2000206@knet.ca> <1159440194.3395.72.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060928133110.GY13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <451C137E.4070706@telly.org> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 06:43:14AM -0400, John Van Ostrand wrote: > >> Why two identical NICs? Shouldn't you be able to use the on-board NIC >> (if it has one) and any other Linux supported PCMCIA or USB? >> > > A 486 laptop would almost certainly not have built in networking. Going back to the original question, "486" was stated as a minimum, not a requirement. The easiest answer to the original post appears to be that the least grief would be had with a laptop -- any laptop -- with a built-in Ethernet connector. The second one could be easily added in the PCMCIA slot. John is right that asking for two _identical_ Ethernet interfaces on a laptop is likely not worth the bother unless there's a _really_ important reason to do so. > A built in CD-ROM is also unlikely on that level of machine. > Most laptops -- even old ones -- had at least a CD reader, except for the ones intended to be ligher than others on the market. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 18:26:33 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:26:33 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <20060928140918.1d40aba2-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> <20060926143554.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451941BE.9020101@telly.org> <20060926171603.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060928140918.1d40aba2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20060928182633.GC13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 02:09:18PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > Without a /home partition, wouldn't they be kinda lost? ie., they would have > no place to keep their personal files? > > I'm only asking because of the three distros I've tried, only Debian did not > create a /home dir by default, IIRC. Debian creates a /home dir. It might not create a /home partition for that dir. Nothing wrong with /home on your root partition. Some people just prefer it seperate. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 18:27:35 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:27:35 -0400 Subject: Display problem In-Reply-To: <451C16F4.7050502-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <451BCB58.2020306@totaltravelmarketing.com> <200609280834.39200.jab@muskokatech.ca> <451BD364.50707@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20060928133315.GZ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1159463683.12640.3.camel@neo> <451C16F4.7050502@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <20060928182735.GD13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 01:39:48PM -0500, Jose wrote: > This is what I get, personally I don't think it's a blade 3d, but what > suse think it is on board: > > vmserver2:/ # lspci > 00:06.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8111 PCI (rev 07) > 00:07.0 ISA bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8111 LPC (rev 05) > 00:07.1 IDE interface: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8111 IDE (rev 03) > 00:07.3 Bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8111 ACPI (rev 05) > 00:0a.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X Bridge > (rev 12) > 00:0a.1 PIC: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X IOAPIC (rev 01) > 00:0b.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X Bridge > (rev 12) > 00:0b.1 PIC: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X IOAPIC (rev 01) > 00:18.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] > HyperTransport Technology Configuration > 00:18.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] > Address Map > 00:18.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] > DRAM Controller > 00:18.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] > Miscellaneous Control > 00:19.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] > HyperTransport Technology Configuration > 00:19.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] > Address Map > 00:19.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] > DRAM Controller > 00:19.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] > Miscellaneous Control > 00:1a.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] > HyperTransport Technology Configuration > 00:1a.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] > Address Map > 00:1a.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] > DRAM Controller > 00:1a.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] > Miscellaneous Control > 00:1b.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] > HyperTransport Technology Configuration > 00:1b.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] > Address Map > 00:1b.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] > DRAM Controller > 00:1b.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] > Miscellaneous Control > 01:00.0 USB Controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8111 USB (rev 0b) > 01:00.1 USB Controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8111 USB (rev 0b) > 01:05.0 VGA compatible controller: Trident Microsystems Blade 3D PCI/AGP > (rev 3a) > 02:02.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5703X > Gigabit Ethernet (rev 02) > 02:03.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5703X > Gigabit Ethernet (rev 02) > 02:04.0 SCSI storage controller: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic 53c1030 PCI-X > Fusion-MPT Dual Ultra320 SCSI (rev 07) > 20:01.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X Bridge > (rev 12) > 20:01.1 PIC: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X IOAPIC (rev 01) > 20:02.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X Bridge > (rev 12) > 20:02.1 PIC: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X IOAPIC (rev 01) > 20:03.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X Bridge > (rev 12) > 20:03.1 PIC: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X IOAPIC (rev 01) > 20:04.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X Bridge > (rev 12) > 20:04.1 PIC: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] AMD-8131 PCI-X IOAPIC (rev 01) What board is this and could you do 'lspci -n' as well? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 18:52:28 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:52:28 -0400 Subject: LF laptop for IPCOP firewall In-Reply-To: <451C137E.4070706-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <451B4F43.2000206@knet.ca> <1159440194.3395.72.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060928133110.GY13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451C137E.4070706@telly.org> Message-ID: <20060928185228.GE13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 02:25:02PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Going back to the original question, "486" was stated as a minimum, not > a requirement. > > The easiest answer to the original post appears to be that the least > grief would be had with a laptop -- any laptop -- with a built-in > Ethernet connector. The second one could be easily added in the PCMCIA slot. > > John is right that asking for two _identical_ Ethernet interfaces on a > laptop is likely not worth the bother unless there's a _really_ > important reason to do so. Right. Although it is one less driver to load that way. > Most laptops -- even old ones -- had at least a CD reader, except for > the ones intended to be ligher than others on the market. I worked with a pentium 233mmx thinkpad a few years ago that certainly did not have a cdrom drive nor built in networking. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 19:25:34 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:25:34 -0400 Subject: LF laptop for IPCOP firewall In-Reply-To: <20060928185228.GE13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <451B4F43.2000206@knet.ca> <1159440194.3395.72.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060928133110.GY13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451C137E.4070706@telly.org> <20060928185228.GE13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1159471534.11550.116.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> On Thu, 2006-09-28 at 14:52 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I worked with a pentium 233mmx thinkpad a few years ago that certainly > did not have a cdrom drive nor built in networking. Instead of a laptop how about something else low power. You could pick up a Linksys WRT56GL and flash it with a custom Linux. At less than $100 it's pretty cheap, silent and will be less power than that the old notebook. If you want more CPU power or storage we sell ITX based systems for $410 that include a slim DVD-ROM CD-RW. You get essentially a 500Mhz PC with 256MB, 80GB, everything on-board, and one PCI slot (for the second NIC.) It's fanless so the only noise is from the hard disk. We often sell these without the DVD/CDRW ($335) because one can temporarily hook up a regular CD-ROM for installation and remove it for operation. If you have a hard disk you want to use we can sell it without HD and DVD/CDRW for $275. When you consider the cost of a free notebook, two PCMCIA NICs, external CD (if required) and then the maintenance of old hardware, the cost of either of the above options might be justifiable. -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 19:39:07 2006 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:39:07 -0400 Subject: Display problem In-Reply-To: <451BDE38.8070603-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <451BCB58.2020306@totaltravelmarketing.com> <200609280834.39200.jab@muskokatech.ca> <451BD364.50707@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20060928133315.GZ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451BDE38.8070603@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <1159472347.13304.2.camel@neo> ? ???, 28/09/2006 ? 09:37 -0500, Jose ?????: > (WW) TRIDENT(0): config file hsync range 28-60kHz not > within DDC hsync ranges. > (II) TRIDENT(0): Monitor[0]: Using hsync range of > 28.00-60.00 kHz > (II) TRIDENT(0): Monitor[0]: Using vrefresh range of > 50.00-60.00 Hz > (II) TRIDENT(0): Clock range: 12.00 to 115.00 MHz > (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using mode "1024x768" > (insufficient memory for mode) > (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using mode "800x600" > (insufficient memory for mode) > (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using mode "768x576" > (insufficient memory for mode) > (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using mode "640x480" > (insufficient memory for mode) > (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "640x350" > (vrefresh out of range) Maybe look at this play with horiz. / vert. refresh numbers? Also figuring out how exactly much ram you have on card is can be useful, placing it into the config. Any card will have 1mb+ after year 2000 and will do at least 10x7 resolution. HTH, Pavel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 19:44:11 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (John Van Ostrand) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:44:11 -0400 Subject: Linux Admin Job Message-ID: <1159472651.11550.131.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> I have a position open for a Linux sysadmin/consultant here in Waterloo, the fastest growing tech region in Canada. The position is full-time permanent. The role involves working with a wide range of technology centered around Linux and open source. Our customer base includes a full range of small, medium and enterprise sized customers. We provide a full range of infrastructure solutions Making this a great opportunity for a person who likes variety. Any one interested should drop me an email. Feel free to ask questions or simply submit a resume if you like. Thanks, -- John Van Ostrand Net Direct Inc. Chief Technology Officer 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12 Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 map john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Ph: 519-883-1172 ext.5102 Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware Fx: 519-883-8533 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 20:36:51 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:36:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <20060928140918.1d40aba2-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> <20060926143554.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451941BE.9020101@telly.org> <20060926171603.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060928140918.1d40aba2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Sep 2006, JoeHill wrote: > On 26 Sep 2006 20:51:32 -0400 > Tim Writer got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > >> For a notebook/desktop user coming from Windows, a single large partition is >> probably easier to understand. > > Without a /home partition, wouldn't they be kinda lost? ie., they would have > no place to keep their personal files? > > I'm only asking because of the three distros I've tried, only Debian did not > create a /home dir by default, IIRC. A directory is not a partition. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 21:30:02 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 17:30:02 -0400 Subject: Display problem In-Reply-To: <1159472347.13304.2.camel@neo> References: <451BCB58.2020306@totaltravelmarketing.com> <200609280834.39200.jab@muskokatech.ca> <451BD364.50707@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20060928133315.GZ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451BDE38.8070603@totaltravelmarketing.com> <1159472347.13304.2.camel@neo> Message-ID: <20060928213002.GF13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 03:39:07PM -0400, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > ?? ??????, 28/09/2006 ?? 09:37 -0500, Jose ??????????: > > (WW) TRIDENT(0): config file hsync range 28-60kHz not > > within DDC hsync ranges. > > (II) TRIDENT(0): Monitor[0]: Using hsync range of > > 28.00-60.00 kHz > > (II) TRIDENT(0): Monitor[0]: Using vrefresh range of > > 50.00-60.00 Hz > > (II) TRIDENT(0): Clock range: 12.00 to 115.00 MHz > > (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using mode "1024x768" > > (insufficient memory for mode) > > (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using mode "800x600" > > (insufficient memory for mode) > > (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using mode "768x576" > > (insufficient memory for mode) > > (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using mode "640x480" > > (insufficient memory for mode) > > (II) TRIDENT(0): Not using default mode "640x350" > > (vrefresh out of range) > > Maybe look at this play with horiz. / vert. refresh numbers? > Also figuring out how exactly much ram you have on card is > can be useful, placing it into the config. Any card will have 1mb+ after > year 2000 and will do at least 10x7 resolution. In this case the entire problem is the videoram amount. The refresh rates are fine. If it can't be made to detect the amount of ram, then it has to be told. Once it is told it should solve the problem. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 22:32:09 2006 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:32:09 -0400 Subject: Gaim not playing nicely on my KDE desktop Message-ID: <200609281832.10854.ican@netrover.com> I'm using SIMPL Mepis with a KDE desktop. The other day I was exploring around my system and came across Gaim. ? I clicked through to see what came up. ? ?Several windows did. ? ?I dismissed them and went about my work. Now whenever I startup my system these damned Gaim windows come up on startup. To make matters worse I went into Gaim again to see if some preferences would kill this insane behavior ... and now I'm getting 2 sets of windows ?on startup. Help ... bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 28 23:12:10 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 19:12:10 -0400 Subject: Gaim not playing nicely on my KDE desktop In-Reply-To: <200609281832.10854.ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200609281832.10854.ican@netrover.com> Message-ID: <451C56CA.4070908@utoronto.ca> bob wrote: > I'm using SIMPL Mepis with a KDE desktop. > > The other day I was exploring around my system and came across Gaim. I > clicked through to see what came up. Several windows did. I dismissed > them and went about my work. > > Now whenever I startup my system these damned Gaim windows come up on startup. > > To make matters worse I went into Gaim again to see if some preferences would > kill this insane behavior ... and now I'm getting 2 sets of windows on > startup. If you are using KDE, try using Kopete for messaging. It has support for all the protocols gaim supports, with the added bonus of being a QT application. Simply: apt-get remove gaim apt-get install kopete -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 00:11:11 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:11:11 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> <20060926143554.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451941BE.9020101@telly.org> <20060926171603.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060928140918.1d40aba2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20060928201111.70ada0fb@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:36:51 -0400 (EDT) Chris F.A. Johnson got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > I'm only asking because of the three distros I've tried, only Debian did not > > create a /home dir by default, IIRC. > > A directory is not a partition. Oops! Yer right...man I'm a dope sometimes. Now that I look at my Ubuntu systems, I see that /home is merely a dir off of /. ...and now that I think about it, on my Debian and Mandrake systems, IIRC, I had to tell it to create a seperate /home partition. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 /////////////////////////// "People should not be afraid of their Government, the Government should be afraid of the People." -- V. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 00:12:47 2006 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:12:47 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <20060928182633.GC13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> <20060926143554.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451941BE.9020101@telly.org> <20060926171603.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060928140918.1d40aba2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20060928182633.GC13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060928201247.141b8c6f@node1.freeyourmachine.org> On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:26:33 -0400 Lennart Sorensen got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > Debian creates a /home dir. It might not create a /home partition for > that dir. Nothing wrong with /home on your root partition. Some people > just prefer it seperate. Yup, I spoke too soon, as usual, without checking 1st. My cross to bear ;) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 /////////////////////////// "People should not be afraid of their Government, the Government should be afraid of the People." -- V. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 00:35:08 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Problems with Kubuntu Edgy and SMB mounting In-Reply-To: <200609281329.55390.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200609281329.55390.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20060929003508.89903.qmail@web61323.mail.yahoo.com> Actually I like the sudo feature of Ubuntu. I also find Ubuntu server install minimal so it requires little hardening. I appreciate the fact that services such as samba and ssh do not install by default. More over, Ubuntu provides secure configuration files for PHP and Apache which can be downloaded. To me, Ubuntu server install is more secure than Fedora Core. However, for some reason, FC4 and FC5 dominate the dedicated server market. I have been using Ubuntu with gnome. I think the smb problem that you are experiencing is similar to the one that I had. If you connect to smb share through "network servers" or "connect to server" you are not actually mounting the share onto the file system so you can not access it, say through OpenOffice file save/open. On Ubuntu, samba file system is not installed by default and you need to install samba client in order to be able to mount samba shares. Hope that helps EK Merv Curley wrote: On Wednesday 27 September 2006 12:42, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Well, the weekend install went surprisingly easily (for a distro I'd > never really used much before) and I'm extremely happy with the result. > There are just a couple of niggling things that I thought I'd ask about > here before raising them as probloems or bugs. Some of these are as > likely problems with my setup as bugs in Edgy. Reporting stuff is also > better accepted is a solution can be offered :-). > Before you make a final determination, I found the Ubuntu philosophy not to my liking and much prefer this distro, Kanotix. It uses the Debian repositories and I find them more up to date than Kubuntu. None of this sudo stuff for root, have terminals run as root, add admin mode apps to the K menu and so on. Kanotix.com Cheerio -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Kanotix Linux Ver 2005-4 Desktop KDE 3.5.1 KMail 1.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists --------------------------------- Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger with Voice -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 00:58:40 2006 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Samba3 + WinXP problem In-Reply-To: <20060928131809.GW13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20060928131809.GW13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20060929005840.94402.qmail@web61316.mail.yahoo.com> Are you able to see the domain groups from the Windows machine? Probably windows is only able to see the domain users and not the domain groups. In that case, the user that you refer will not be recognized as a member of the administrator group and hence your problem. EK Lennart Sorensen wrote: On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 06:07:27PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > I've got a very frustrating problem at one of my job's client's > networks that I administer. It seems that, come heck or high water, > Windows XP (SP2) insists that a domain user who is added to the local > machine's Administrator group will only get Guest privileges. > > This causes problems because the only way I can install software (inc. > updates) is to login to the local machine instead of the domain. I have > tried switching between tdbsam and smbpasswd backends, I have remapped > my groups several times... I am stumped. > > If anyone is clueful on this, I would be *very* greatful as the > client is getting impatient and I am feeling the pressure. > > Thanks all! > > Madison (who really hates all things windows... *sigh* ;) ). > > PS - If it helps, I'll post my smb.conf file (or anything else > potentially helpful). Which version of samba? I know many of the more recent versions solved a lot of problems with versions of XP. At least that is what the release notes/changelogs say. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists --------------------------------- Share your photos with the people who matter at Yahoo! Canada Photos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 03:05:13 2006 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 23:05:13 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <20060928140918.1d40aba2-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> <20060926143554.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451941BE.9020101@telly.org> <20060926171603.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060928140918.1d40aba2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: On 9/28/06, JoeHill wrote: > On 26 Sep 2006 20:51:32 -0400 > Tim Writer got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > > For a notebook/desktop user coming from Windows, a single large partition is > > probably easier to understand. > > Without a /home partition, wouldn't they be kinda lost? ie., they would have > no place to keep their personal files? > > I'm only asking because of the three distros I've tried, only Debian did not > create a /home dir by default, IIRC. The last Debian box I built certainly did do so. The thing that happens with Debian is that when you run the partitioning tool, you can choose to set up as many partitions as you like, where there are some defaults offered for each one as you go along. According to the ordering it set up, the selection was: / /usr /var /tmp /home That seems familiar; start with /, which is mandatory, and then offer others, as long as there are useful default values left to offer. If you stopped after making 2 partitions, you wouldn't get to the /home "option." That doesn't mean it wasn't there... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html Oddly enough, this is completely standard behaviour for shells. This is a roundabout way of saying `don't use combined chains of `&&'s and `||'s unless you think G?del's theorem is for sissies'. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 03:32:31 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 23:32:31 -0400 Subject: Gaim not playing nicely on my KDE desktop In-Reply-To: <451C56CA.4070908-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200609281832.10854.ican@netrover.com> <451C56CA.4070908@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: I would say that that ignores the problem he is having. Uninstalling gaim would work around it, but it would not be a proper fix. The problem is probably not gaim's fault directly, but something to do with KDE saving the user's session and restoring it on login, I'm guessing. If I'm right, then you probably want to open kcontrol, and go to KDE Components > Session Manager, and then pick "Start with an empty session" in the On Login choice. If you want to leave the session restoring on, maybe you can try typing gaim into the exclusion list at the bottom of the Session Manager page. Simon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 03:45:52 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 23:45:52 -0400 Subject: Display problem In-Reply-To: <20060928213002.GF13640-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <451BCB58.2020306@totaltravelmarketing.com> <200609280834.39200.jab@muskokatech.ca> <451BD364.50707@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20060928133315.GZ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451BDE38.8070603@totaltravelmarketing.com> <1159472347.13304.2.camel@neo> <20060928213002.GF13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: To be explicit, what you need to do to fix this is add a line in your Device section in xorg.conf like: VideoRam 8192 Where 8192 is the amount of memory to use, in KB Google tells me that the 9880 has 8MB of memory, so that's what you would try first, assuming that's right. If it turns out that that still doesn't work, you should start x in failsafe mode, copy the log file, and see how it's configured in that mode. Simon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 04:44:03 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 00:44:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Problems with Kubuntu Edgy and SMB mounting In-Reply-To: <200609281329.55390.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <451AA9FF.80408@telly.org> <200609281329.55390.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Sep 2006, Merv Curley wrote: >> > Before you make a final determination, I found the Ubuntu philosophy not to my > liking and much prefer this distro, Kanotix. It uses the Debian > repositories and I find them more up to date than Kubuntu. None of this sudo > stuff for root, have terminals run as root, Every distro has the "sudo stuff" for root. When I used Ubuntu, I always had a root terminal open. If you want to be able to log in as root, just give root a password. Even without that, you can open a root terminal window: "sudo xterm" or "sudo rxvt" or whatever. -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 07:44:10 2006 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy David Mills) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 03:44:10 -0400 Subject: freenas Message-ID: FreeNAS is a BSD distro that makes any PC a NAS-like device. protocols include cifs, ftp, nfs, rsync, sshd and apfd http://www.freenas.org/downloads/beta/ Download the beta 068-RC2 and NOT the 0671. 0671 has some FTP and other authentication issues. FTP on ADSL can only push data at 80 kb/sec (i think) As a local NAS-type device on the network, FreeNAS is pretty slick. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zh.huang-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 08:56:03 2006 From: zh.huang-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rex Huang) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:56:03 +0800 Subject: freenas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <573409e0609290156q5cf531adnd89d7758f9ee5f7b@mail.gmail.com> I have problem to access this server. I am from China, but i also tried via a corp gateway in U.S.. Any one sucess downloading it? rex On 9/29/06, Teddy David Mills wrote: > > FreeNAS is a BSD distro that makes any PC a NAS-like device. > protocols include cifs, ftp, nfs, rsync, sshd and apfd > > http://www.freenas.org/downloads/beta/ > > Download the beta 068-RC2 and NOT the 0671. > 0671 has some FTP and other authentication issues. > FTP on ADSL can only push data at 80 kb/sec (i think) > As a local NAS-type device on the network, FreeNAS is pretty slick. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 11:35:23 2006 From: ican-rZHaEmXdJNJWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:35:23 -0400 Subject: Gaim not playing nicely on my KDE desktop In-Reply-To: References: <200609281832.10854.ican@netrover.com> <451C56CA.4070908@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <200609290735.23838.ican@netrover.com> The answer appears to be in the KDE system tray. I had to right click the Gaim icon there and select Quit to actually get rid of the automatic startup. Thanks. bob On Thursday 28 September 2006 11:32 pm, Simon wrote: > I would say that that ignores the problem he is having. Uninstalling gaim > would work around it, but it would not be a proper fix. The problem is > probably not gaim's fault directly, but something to do with KDE saving the > user's session and restoring it on login, I'm guessing. > > If I'm right, then you probably want to open kcontrol, and go to KDE > Components > Session Manager, and then pick "Start with an empty session" > in the On Login choice. If you want to leave the session restoring on, > maybe you can try typing gaim into the exclusion list at the bottom of the > Session Manager page. > > Simon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 12:17:51 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 08:17:51 -0400 Subject: LF laptop for IPCOP firewall In-Reply-To: <1159471534.11550.116.camel-H4GMr3yegGDiLwdn3CfQm+4hLzXZc3VTLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <451B4F43.2000206@knet.ca> <20060928185228.GE13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1159471534.11550.116.camel@venture.office.netdirect.ca> Message-ID: <200609290817.52152.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Thursday 28 September 2006 15:25, John Van Ostrand wrote: > If you want more CPU power or storage we sell ITX based systems for $410 > that include a slim DVD-ROM CD-RW. You get essentially a 500Mhz PC with > 256MB, 80GB, everything on-board, and one PCI slot (for the second NIC.) > It's fanless so the only noise is from the hard disk. For even less noise and power consumption you could drop in a compact flash with CF/IDE adapter and get rid of the hard drive. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 14:29:25 2006 From: jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:29:25 -0500 Subject: Display problem In-Reply-To: References: <451BCB58.2020306@totaltravelmarketing.com> <200609280834.39200.jab@muskokatech.ca> <451BD364.50707@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20060928133315.GZ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451BDE38.8070603@totaltravelmarketing.com> <1159472347.13304.2.camel@neo> <20060928213002.GF13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <451D2DC5.5040707@totaltravelmarketing.com> Simon wrote: > To be explicit, what you need to do to fix this is add a line in your > Device section in xorg.conf like: > > VideoRam 8192 > > Where 8192 is the amount of memory to use, in KB > Google tells me that the 9880 has 8MB of memory, so that's what you > would try first, assuming that's right. If it turns out that that > still doesn't work, you should start x in failsafe mode, copy the log > file, and see how it's configured in that mode. > > Simon Hi Simon, I tried it and didn't work, I did go on failsafe mode to check the conf file and turned out to be the same, using the trident driver, I checked the kernel parameters and the apci was set to off, I changed that on the main kernel and now it's working fine. I still have to find out how this switch may impact on the performance of the machine tough. But thanks for the idea Jose -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 16:06:30 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:06:30 -0400 Subject: Display problem In-Reply-To: <451D2DC5.5040707-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <451BCB58.2020306@totaltravelmarketing.com> <200609280834.39200.jab@muskokatech.ca> <451BD364.50707@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20060928133315.GZ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451BDE38.8070603@totaltravelmarketing.com> <1159472347.13304.2.camel@neo> <20060928213002.GF13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451D2DC5.5040707@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: Jose wrote: > I tried it and didn't work, I did go on failsafe mode to check the conf > file and turned out to be the same, using the trident driver, I checked > the kernel parameters and the apci was set to off, I changed that on the > main kernel and now it's working fine. I still have to find out how this > switch may impact on the performance of the machine tough. > > But thanks for the idea Missing the rest of this thread, but I remove modelines from my xorg.conf. I usually just specify depth & resolution, and let X figure it out.Have you tried using VESA instead of trident for your driver? -- perhaps being overly explicit is stopping X from handling things automatically? Armchair speculation though, so YMMV. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 16:22:59 2006 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Webalizer Message-ID: <3083.66.11.182.5.1159546979.squirrel@canuckster.org> Greetings, How do I enable search results and pages that link to me in webalizer? My webalizer can be seen here (http://canuckster.org/webalizer/) Thanks Jay -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 19:14:29 2006 From: jose-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:14:29 -0500 Subject: Display problem In-Reply-To: References: <451BCB58.2020306@totaltravelmarketing.com> <200609280834.39200.jab@muskokatech.ca> <451BD364.50707@totaltravelmarketing.com> <20060928133315.GZ13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451BDE38.8070603@totaltravelmarketing.com> <1159472347.13304.2.camel@neo> <20060928213002.GF13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451D2DC5.5040707@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <451D7095.5090800@totaltravelmarketing.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Jose wrote: > >> I tried it and didn't work, I did go on failsafe mode to check the conf >> file and turned out to be the same, using the trident driver, I checked >> the kernel parameters and the apci was set to off, I changed that on the >> main kernel and now it's working fine. I still have to find out how this >> switch may impact on the performance of the machine tough. >> >> But thanks for the idea >> > > Missing the rest of this thread, but I remove modelines from my > xorg.conf. I usually just specify depth & resolution, and let X figure > it out.Have you tried using VESA instead of trident for your driver? -- > perhaps being overly explicit is stopping X from handling things > automatically? > > Armchair speculation though, so YMMV. > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Hi Jamon, Yes, trying the Vesa driver was one of the few things I did first, and it wouldn't work at all, no matter what resolution or depth or monitor display I would choose, the only one that I got something out was the old vga generic driver, but it was so bad that was only giving me 16 colors and a max resolution of 800x600, and I knew that machine was capable of giving me more as before installing suse it had an old redhat 9 installed on it capable of displaying it's gui at 16million color/1024x764. Jose -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 18:22:33 2006 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:22:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Webalizer In-Reply-To: <3083.66.11.182.5.1159546979.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <3083.66.11.182.5.1159546979.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <2767.66.11.182.5.1159554153.squirrel@canuckster.org> I should add I did TopReferrers 75 But top referrers are not being shown. Niether is search results. > Greetings, > > How do I enable search results and pages that link to me in webalizer? My > webalizer can be seen here (http://canuckster.org/webalizer/) > > Thanks > > Jay > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 18:23:35 2006 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Webalizer In-Reply-To: <3083.66.11.182.5.1159546979.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <3083.66.11.182.5.1159546979.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <2281.66.11.182.5.1159554215.squirrel@canuckster.org> TopSearch 25 > Greetings, > > How do I enable search results and pages that link to me in webalizer? My > webalizer can be seen here (http://canuckster.org/webalizer/) > > Thanks > > Jay > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 19:42:35 2006 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:42:35 -0400 Subject: working with binary data in Perl... Message-ID: <451D772B.6060901@alteeve.com> I'm attempting to wright a conversion program for an old byte oriented picture description language (NAPLPS/Telidon) to SVG. I currently have a script in Perl that will give me a human readable output from a NAPLPS file. However the code looks like it could have been written in BASIC. eg: if ( $Byte eq "\e" ) { $Desc = "ESCAPE"; } elsif ( $Byte eq chr(15) ) { $Desc = "SHIFT-IN - SETTING 'GL' TO 'ASCII (G0)'"; $GL = "ASCII"; } elsif ( $Byte eq chr(14) ) { $Desc = "SHIFT-OUT - SETTING 'GL' TO 'PDI (G1)'"; $GL = "PDI"; } And doing bit shifts gets really interesting... #Correcting for missing bytes $Pel{X} = chr(ord($Pel{X})<<$Shift); $Pel{Y} = chr(ord($Pel{Y})<<$Shift); My question is: Is there a more elegant way to work with the binary data in Perl? Lance F. Squire -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 20:24:38 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:24:38 -0400 Subject: Webalizer In-Reply-To: <2767.66.11.182.5.1159554153.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <3083.66.11.182.5.1159546979.squirrel@canuckster.org> <2767.66.11.182.5.1159554153.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <200609291624.38924.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Friday 29 September 2006 14:22, Jason Carson wrote: > I should add I did > > TopReferrers 75 > > But top referrers are not being shown. Niether is search results. Are you sure that you are logging referrers in your apache (or other?) logfile? -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 20:56:27 2006 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:56:27 -0400 Subject: We need to make a good Windows UI clone (Was: At the US border) Message-ID: 2006/9/25, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: ... > Don't anyone tell me not to bash Micro$oft since these scumbags affect > my life just about everywhere I go!!!! You're right. People sadly stick with Windows even despite all its problems. I think the problem is that nobody likes change. One computer lab at my school has 100 Windows PCs and 20 Macs. Nobody really uses the Macs. They are all stay powered off, and simply nobody uses them. People don't want to learn a new OS with different dialog boxes and whatnot than they're used to. To them, computer is just a tool, and people want the tool they're familiar with. They just want bad old Windows. Sad, but true. Perhaps what we need to do is make a good, spyware-proof Linux-based clone of the Windows UI which runs MS Office perfectly using Wine-like emulation technology. That'd be the first step towards convincing the majority of people to make the switch. ... > -- > Friends don't let friends use windows.... When you open Windows, bugs get in. Regards, Jason -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I also provide training and spyware removal services for homes and businesses. Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. 416-781-5938 / Email: info-1hdvTAswZAHQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org / MSN: jasonspiro-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 21:02:51 2006 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:02:51 -0400 Subject: working with binary data in Perl... In-Reply-To: <451D772B.6060901-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <451D772B.6060901@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20060929210251.GG13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 03:42:35PM -0400, Lance F. Squire wrote: > I'm attempting to wright a conversion program for an old byte oriented > picture description language (NAPLPS/Telidon) to SVG. > > I currently have a script in Perl that will give me a human readable > output from a NAPLPS file. However the code looks like it could have > been written in BASIC. > > eg: > > if ( $Byte eq "\e" ) { $Desc = "ESCAPE"; } > elsif ( $Byte eq chr(15) ) > { > $Desc = "SHIFT-IN - SETTING 'GL' TO 'ASCII (G0)'"; > $GL = "ASCII"; > } > elsif ( $Byte eq chr(14) ) > { > $Desc = "SHIFT-OUT - SETTING 'GL' TO 'PDI (G1)'"; > $GL = "PDI"; > } > > And doing bit shifts gets really interesting... > > #Correcting for missing bytes > $Pel{X} = chr(ord($Pel{X})<<$Shift); > $Pel{Y} = chr(ord($Pel{Y})<<$Shift); > > My question is: Is there a more elegant way to work with the binary data > in Perl? I somewhat doubt it. There are things like vec and pack/unpack, but overall perl really prefers text. Perl seems to like binary about as much as C likes text. :) And watch out for automatic type conversion in perl. It can really bite you. $x = 0; print "X is $x\n"; ioctl(MYFILE,0x5401,$x); Does something different than $x = 0; ioctl(MYFILE,0x5401,$x); print "X is $x\n"; While this does the same as the first $x = 0; print "X is $x\n"; $x += 0; ioctl(MYFILE,0x5401,$x); When playing with binary this just might matter. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 21:20:45 2006 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:20:45 -0400 Subject: working with binary data in Perl... In-Reply-To: <451D772B.6060901-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <451D772B.6060901@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 9/29/06, Lance F. Squire wrote: > > I'm attempting to wright a conversion program for an old byte oriented > picture description language (NAPLPS/Telidon) to SVG. > > I currently have a script in Perl that will give me a human readable > output from a NAPLPS file. However the code looks like it could have > been written in BASIC. > > eg: > > if ( $Byte eq "\e" ) { $Desc = "ESCAPE"; } > elsif ( $Byte eq chr(15) ) > { > $Desc = "SHIFT-IN - SETTING 'GL' TO 'ASCII (G0)'"; > $GL = "ASCII"; > } > elsif ( $Byte eq chr(14) ) > { > $Desc = "SHIFT-OUT - SETTING 'GL' TO 'PDI (G1)'"; > $GL = "PDI"; > } > > And doing bit shifts gets really interesting... > > #Correcting for missing bytes > $Pel{X} = chr(ord($Pel{X})<<$Shift); > $Pel{Y} = chr(ord($Pel{Y})<<$Shift); > > My question is: Is there a more elegant way to work with the binary data > in Perl? I wonder if it wouldn't be easier to write this in C, since so much of it is doing binary operations. You could either write the whole thing in C, or a hybrid Perl/C program to give you the flexibility of Perl with the speed of C. I don't have experience with the hybrid, but I have lots of experience with Perl and with C, and I hear that Inline::C works really well. Just a thought. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 21:54:24 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:54:24 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education Message-ID: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> Hi is there a small group of Linux users from Ontario who would like to gather around some Torontonian food to discuss Open Source PR and advocacy? In the next couple of weeks it would be great. Regards, Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 29 23:19:55 2006 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:19:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Webalizer In-Reply-To: <200609291624.38924.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <3083.66.11.182.5.1159546979.squirrel@canuckster.org> <2767.66.11.182.5.1159554153.squirrel@canuckster.org> <200609291624.38924.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <4341.66.11.182.5.1159571995.squirrel@canuckster.org> > On Friday 29 September 2006 14:22, Jason Carson wrote: >> I should add I did >> >> TopReferrers 75 >> >> But top referrers are not being shown. Niether is search results. > > Are you sure that you are logging referrers in your apache (or other?) > logfile? How do I do that? I am using Apache 2.0.58 > -- > Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ > Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 00:31:33 2006 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:31:33 -0400 Subject: We need to make a good Windows UI clone (Was: At the US border) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99a6c38f0609291731i396b731am2e67bda36d85f1d4@mail.gmail.com> On 9/29/06, Jason Spiro wrote: > 2006/9/25, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > ... > > Don't anyone tell me not to bash Micro$oft since these scumbags affect > > my life just about everywhere I go!!!! > > You're right. People sadly stick with Windows even despite all its > problems. I think the problem is that nobody likes change. One > computer lab at my school has 100 Windows PCs and 20 Macs. Nobody > really uses the Macs. They are all stay powered off, and simply nobody > uses them. > > People don't want to learn a new OS with different dialog boxes and > whatnot than they're used to. To them, computer is just a tool, and > people want the tool they're familiar with. They just want bad old > Windows. > > Sad, but true. > > Perhaps what we need to do is make a good, spyware-proof Linux-based > clone of the Windows UI which runs MS Office perfectly using Wine-like > emulation technology. That'd be the first step towards convincing the > majority of people to make the switch. > > ... > > -- > > Friends don't let friends use windows.... > > When you open Windows, bugs get in. > > Regards, > Jason I can't say it's spyware proof - hell, I'm not even entirely sure of the security implications (yet) - but Atomic OS is the way I see to fix this UI issue for J Random User. With Atomic, it no longer matters whether your using *nix, *bsd, *m$, or whatever. If Firefox works on your system, there's an alternative to Microsoft. Being entirely contained withing a single .html file gives it the potential to grow in a ubiquitous way. Every time J.R. User goes to a website, it's a different User Interface. In the aftermath of hitting Digg, there were a bunch of comments made all over the place. One of them in particular refers to this thread -- at least from my perspective: "reminds me of windows 98" [1] When we get Atomic OS up to where WAJAX was, it's as easy to use as that. [1] http://tinyurl.com/zbupr http://addict3d.org/index.php?page=viewarticle&type=news&ID=28892&title=AtomicOS%20-%20Another%20AjaxOS -- Scott Elcomb http://atomos.sourceforge.net/ http://search.cpan.org/~selcomb/SAL-3.03/ http://psema4.googlepages.com/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 00:35:53 2006 From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:35:53 -0400 Subject: We need to make a good Windows UI clone (Was: At the US border) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200609292035.53786.scott@scottripley.com> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReactOS you might be familiar with this already... (somewhat related to what you mention) On Friday 29 September 2006 16:56, Jason Spiro wrote: > 2006/9/25, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > ... > > > Don't anyone tell me not to bash Micro$oft since these scumbags affect > > my life just about everywhere I go!!!! > > You're right. People sadly stick with Windows even despite all its > problems. I think the problem is that nobody likes change. One > computer lab at my school has 100 Windows PCs and 20 Macs. Nobody > really uses the Macs. They are all stay powered off, and simply nobody > uses them. > > People don't want to learn a new OS with different dialog boxes and > whatnot than they're used to. To them, computer is just a tool, and > people want the tool they're familiar with. They just want bad old > Windows. > > Sad, but true. > > Perhaps what we need to do is make a good, spyware-proof Linux-based > clone of the Windows UI which runs MS Office perfectly using Wine-like > emulation technology. That'd be the first step towards convincing the > majority of people to make the switch. > > ... > > > -- > > Friends don't let friends use windows.... > > When you open Windows, bugs get in. > > Regards, > Jason -- Scott C. Ripley ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Tel: 01.416.738.6357 Deucalion Technologies ? ? ?Fax: 01.416.201.8922 614A The Queensway ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?http://www.scottripley.com Etobicoke, ON, M8Y 1K1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?mailto:scott at scottripley.com CANADA The content of this electronic mail transmission is confidential. ? ? This transmission is intended solely for the use by the person(s) to whom it was addressed. ?All other recipients are hereby notified that any use, copying, dissemination, or disclosure of this information is strictly prohibited. ? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 02:59:04 2006 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 22:59:04 -0400 Subject: working with binary data in Perl... In-Reply-To: References: <451D772B.6060901@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <451DDD78.8070409@alteeve.com> Alex Beamish wrote: > > You could either write the whole thing in C, or a hybrid Perl/C program > to give you the flexibility of Perl with the speed of C. > > I don't have experience with the hybrid, but I have lots of experience > with Perl and with C, and I hear that Inline::C works really well. > > Just a thought. > Never really got into C. Coulden't really understand that mallock thing... Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 03:25:40 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 23:25:40 -0400 Subject: At the US border In-Reply-To: References: <1159234583.3936.15.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45185A6E.4000809@zleap.net> Message-ID: I definitely try to get the word out, but it's kind of grating when you say you're very much into free software, and the person says something like "Yeah, I try things for free too, freeware, shareware.." I worry about alienating myself if I say something about "free as in freedom", but I think the most sane sounding thing to say, if you want to clarify, is that you meant free to use, modify, and share, not free of cost. Simon On 9/26/06, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 25 Sep 2006, paul sutton wrote: > > > I guess this is a situation where you say you agree, but then state you use > > Linux which is free (as in freedom) software, and give them a website where > > I've done this before. In many cases the person has responded that they > did not know alternatives existed (sometimes adding "except for Mac"). > Slowly but surely we get the word out there. > > Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 03:29:04 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 23:29:04 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <200609291754.24842.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: Can you elaborate? Thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 04:25:14 2006 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 00:25:14 -0400 Subject: We need to make a good Windows UI clone (Was: At the US border) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1159590314.3975.17.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Sadly in North America in my experience students are conditioned to fit into a corporate slot rather than pursue an entrepreneurial path. I've worked with a number of recent immigrants to Canada (less than 10 years landed) and they are perplexed by the mentality of Canadians who were born and raised here and rely on others to perform some part of the requirements to fulfill success in their undertakings. For example if a Canadian opens a small business he/she will hire out many non core business jobs to a contractor rather than do the 'menial' jobs them selves. It seems some jobs are beneath a Canadian who is accustomed to having everything handed to them where as the new immigrant will do every small job there is no matter how dirty or degrading his/her self to ensure success. For a small business to succeed the owner needs to be a 'jack of all trades' at least until cash flow becomes predictable. People stick with windows because the perception is that its easier to install 'shrink wrap' than to tailor open source. If entrepreneurs learn menial IT and/or programming like they learn menial floor sweeping rather than hiring a high priced administrator/programmer maybe their business will have a better chance to succeed. Ultimately it will be the entrepreneur with the most technical AND business skills who will prosper in today's market. RickT On Fri, 2006-09-29 at 16:56 -0400, Jason Spiro wrote: > 2006/9/25, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > ... > > Don't anyone tell me not to bash Micro$oft since these scumbags affect > > my life just about everywhere I go!!!! > > You're right. People sadly stick with Windows even despite all its > problems. I think the problem is that nobody likes change. One > computer lab at my school has 100 Windows PCs and 20 Macs. Nobody > really uses the Macs. They are all stay powered off, and simply nobody > uses them. > > People don't want to learn a new OS with different dialog boxes and > whatnot than they're used to. To them, computer is just a tool, and > people want the tool they're familiar with. They just want bad old > Windows. > > Sad, but true. > > Perhaps what we need to do is make a good, spyware-proof Linux-based > clone of the Windows UI which runs MS Office perfectly using Wine-like > emulation technology. That'd be the first step towards convincing the > majority of people to make the switch. > > ... > > -- > > Friends don't let friends use windows.... > > When you open Windows, bugs get in. > > Regards, > Jason > -- "Friends don't let friends use windows. Show a suffering windows user Linux today" http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 11:34:11 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 07:34:11 -0400 Subject: At the US border In-Reply-To: References: <1159234583.3936.15.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45185A6E.4000809@zleap.net> Message-ID: <451E5633.9060201@rogers.com> Simon wrote: > I definitely try to get the word out, but it's kind of grating when > you say you're very much into free software, and the person says > something like "Yeah, I try things for free too, freeware, > shareware.." Last week, I was speaking to someone who thought open source was the same thing as cracked software! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 08:51:21 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (paul sutton) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 08:51:21 +0000 Subject: We need to make a good Windows UI clone (Was: At the US border) In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0609291731i396b731am2e67bda36d85f1d4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0609291731i396b731am2e67bda36d85f1d4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <451E3009.8020501@zleap.net> i was in georgetown library the other day, and noticed they had a Linux desktop, well in fact i only noticed when I saw an error message relating to GNOME, and thought hang on thats not windows, closer inspection revealed that it was a gnome desktop running I think on LTSP. I don't think people notice the desktop as it just works, there is openoffice, irc, and the gnome www client (can'[t remember name off hand), but it should Linux does work on the desktop, Is this used in any of the other libraries in the area, i have been using Linux for years I just did not notice it, I guess because the Library UI was there, and it just worked, for most people they are just using the library search facilty to look for resources, so there is no need to worry about the back end that much, Good to see Linux on the desktop though, this could be the way forward, get it on terminals like this first, then slowly migrate to the working desktop any comments. Paul Scott Elcomb wrote: > On 9/29/06, Jason Spiro wrote: > >> 2006/9/25, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: >> ... >> > Don't anyone tell me not to bash Micro$oft since these scumbags affect >> > my life just about everywhere I go!!!! >> >> You're right. People sadly stick with Windows even despite all its >> problems. I think the problem is that nobody likes change. One >> computer lab at my school has 100 Windows PCs and 20 Macs. Nobody >> really uses the Macs. They are all stay powered off, and simply nobody >> uses them. >> >> People don't want to learn a new OS with different dialog boxes and >> whatnot than they're used to. To them, computer is just a tool, and >> people want the tool they're familiar with. They just want bad old >> Windows. >> >> Sad, but true. >> >> Perhaps what we need to do is make a good, spyware-proof Linux-based >> clone of the Windows UI which runs MS Office perfectly using Wine-like >> emulation technology. That'd be the first step towards convincing the >> majority of people to make the switch. >> >> ... >> > -- >> > Friends don't let friends use windows.... >> >> When you open Windows, bugs get in. >> >> Regards, >> Jason > > > I can't say it's spyware proof - hell, I'm not even entirely sure of > the security implications (yet) - but Atomic OS is the way I see to > fix this UI issue for J Random User. > > With Atomic, it no longer matters whether your using *nix, *bsd, *m$, > or whatever. If Firefox works on your system, there's an alternative > to Microsoft. Being entirely contained withing a single .html file > gives it the potential to grow in a ubiquitous way. > > Every time J.R. User goes to a website, it's a different User > Interface. In the aftermath of hitting Digg, there were a bunch of > comments made all over the place. One of them in particular refers to > this thread -- at least from my perspective: > > "reminds me of windows 98" [1] > > When we get Atomic OS up to where WAJAX was, it's as easy to use as that. > > [1] > http://tinyurl.com/zbupr > http://addict3d.org/index.php?page=viewarticle&type=news&ID=28892&title=AtomicOS%20-%20Another%20AjaxOS > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 09:17:26 2006 From: zleap-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (paul sutton) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 09:17:26 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: [LUG] SFD 2006 / hardware recycling- revisited] Message-ID: <451E3626.7040804@zleap.net> Hi Just a sligtly modified subject header, I think the group may be interested in this, given the recent thread about how useful old computers are, this was sent to the dcglug group from tom who is working with the people in the country to promote Linux / OSS. paul -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Tom Brough Subject: [LUG] SFD 2006 - revisited Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 12:56:49 +0100 Size: 3743 URL: From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 14:40:53 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 10:40:53 -0400 Subject: We need to make a good Windows UI clone (Was: At the US border) In-Reply-To: <451E3009.8020501-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0609291731i396b731am2e67bda36d85f1d4@mail.gmail.com> <451E3009.8020501@zleap.net> Message-ID: <200609301040.54312.softquake@gmail.com> Pickering library uses Linux as well. I spoke for short with the library manager and they are happy there with Linux. It was a kind of unknown to me distribution and I do not remember the name. Initially, I did not notice that this is not windows, only after looking around how things are done there. zb. On Saturday 30 September 2006 04:51, paul sutton wrote: > i was in georgetown library the other day, and noticed they had a Linux > desktop, well in fact i only noticed when I saw an error message > relating to GNOME, and thought hang on thats not windows, closer > inspection revealed that it was a gnome desktop running I think on > LTSP. I don't think people notice the desktop as it just works, there > is openoffice, irc, and the gnome www client (can'[t remember name off > hand), but it should Linux does work on the desktop, > > Is this used in any of the other libraries in the area, > > i have been using Linux for years I just did not notice it, I guess > because the Library UI was there, and it just worked, for most people > they are just using the library search facilty to look for resources, > so there is no need to worry about the back end that much, > > Good to see Linux on the desktop though, this could be the way > forward, get it on terminals like this first, then slowly migrate to > the working desktop > > any comments. > > Paul > > Scott Elcomb wrote: > > On 9/29/06, Jason Spiro wrote: > >> 2006/9/25, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > >> ... > >> > >> > Don't anyone tell me not to bash Micro$oft since these scumbags affect > >> > my life just about everywhere I go!!!! > >> > >> You're right. People sadly stick with Windows even despite all its > >> problems. I think the problem is that nobody likes change. One > >> computer lab at my school has 100 Windows PCs and 20 Macs. Nobody > >> really uses the Macs. They are all stay powered off, and simply nobody > >> uses them. > >> > >> People don't want to learn a new OS with different dialog boxes and > >> whatnot than they're used to. To them, computer is just a tool, and > >> people want the tool they're familiar with. They just want bad old > >> Windows. > >> > >> Sad, but true. > >> > >> Perhaps what we need to do is make a good, spyware-proof Linux-based > >> clone of the Windows UI which runs MS Office perfectly using Wine-like > >> emulation technology. That'd be the first step towards convincing the > >> majority of people to make the switch. > >> > >> ... > >> > >> > -- > >> > Friends don't let friends use windows.... > >> > >> When you open Windows, bugs get in. > >> > >> Regards, > >> Jason > > > > I can't say it's spyware proof - hell, I'm not even entirely sure of > > the security implications (yet) - but Atomic OS is the way I see to > > fix this UI issue for J Random User. > > > > With Atomic, it no longer matters whether your using *nix, *bsd, *m$, > > or whatever. If Firefox works on your system, there's an alternative > > to Microsoft. Being entirely contained withing a single .html file > > gives it the potential to grow in a ubiquitous way. > > > > Every time J.R. User goes to a website, it's a different User > > Interface. In the aftermath of hitting Digg, there were a bunch of > > comments made all over the place. One of them in particular refers to > > this thread -- at least from my perspective: > > > > "reminds me of windows 98" [1] > > > > When we get Atomic OS up to where WAJAX was, it's as easy to use as that. > > > > [1] > > http://tinyurl.com/zbupr > > > > http://addict3d.org/index.php?page=viewarticle&type=news&ID=28892&title=A > >tomicOS%20-%20Another%20AjaxOS > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 16:05:16 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 12:05:16 -0400 Subject: We need to make a good Windows UI clone (Was: At the US border) In-Reply-To: <451E3009.8020501-Tp5KeRqLOeNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0609291731i396b731am2e67bda36d85f1d4@mail.gmail.com> <451E3009.8020501@zleap.net> Message-ID: <200609301205.17137.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Saturday 30 September 2006 04:51, paul sutton wrote: > i was in georgetown library the other day, and noticed they had a Linux > desktop, well in fact i only noticed when I saw an error message > relating to GNOME, and thought hang on thats not windows, closer > inspection revealed that it was a gnome desktop running I think on > LTSP. It's running FC4 (pop up an xterm if you like ;-), I don't think LTSP was involved but I didn't look closely. Nice to see Linux there but would be even better to see it reasonably locked down. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 16:20:36 2006 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 12:20:36 -0400 Subject: Webalizer In-Reply-To: <4341.66.11.182.5.1159571995.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <3083.66.11.182.5.1159546979.squirrel@canuckster.org> <200609291624.38924.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <4341.66.11.182.5.1159571995.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <200609301220.37156.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Friday 29 September 2006 19:19, Jason Carson wrote: > > On Friday 29 September 2006 14:22, Jason Carson wrote: > > > Are you sure that you are logging referrers in your apache (or other?) > > logfile? > > How do I do that? I am using Apache 2.0.58 Find where your logfile is defined in apache config (usually under /etc/httpd, /etc/apache or /etc/apache2). For my logfiles I have one line like this for each virtual host: CustomLog /var/log/apache/www.SOMEDOMAIN.com-access.log combined The key word is combined, this tells apache to log in the combined format. The "combined" format is a standard logformat that is actually defined elsewhere in your apache config like this (in my case in /etc/apache/httpd.conf): LogFormat "%h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b \"%{Referer}i\" \"%{User-Agent}i\" \"%{forensic-id}n\"" combined (above should be on a single line) but your apache config probably already defines that. Here is a line from one of my apache logs: 68.72.172.230 - - [30/Sep/2006:12:03:56 -0400] "GET /articles/2006/09/11/rhel5-beta-now-available HTTP/1.1" 200 10000 "http://www.google.com/search?q=rhel5+&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&start=20&sa=N" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9a1) Gecko/20060926 Minefield/3.0a1" "-" In addition to the standard log items you can see from the above that the user found the page via google, what search term they used and what browser/os they claim to be using. Check out the apache docs on custom log formats at http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_log_config.html#formats ... combined is a relatively standard format that most log analysers will recognize immediately, deviating too much from the "standards" will make your log analyzing tougher. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 17:20:27 2006 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 13:20:27 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <20060928140918.1d40aba2-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <45130A0A.6090600@telly.org> <200609212135.58518.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <4513536B.6080904@telly.org> <20060925210753.GA2495@waltdnes.org> <20060926143554.GR13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <451941BE.9020101@telly.org> <20060926171603.GS13640@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20060928140918.1d40aba2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20060930132027.363b1f7b.hgibson@eol.ca> On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:09:18 -0400 JoeHill wrote: > On 26 Sep 2006 20:51:32 -0400 > Tim Writer got an infinite number of monkeys to type out: > > > For a notebook/desktop user coming from Windows, a single large partition is > > probably easier to understand. > > Without a /home partition, wouldn't they be kinda lost? ie., they would have > no place to keep their personal files? > > I'm only asking because of the three distros I've tried, only Debian did not > create a /home dir by default, IIRC. Joe, I did not set up a /home partition on my laptop. If someone steals it, I want to maximize the difficulties of getting it to do anything, much less provide access to all my files. With a little luck, the Red Hat sticker will get the point across, ahead of time. If the thief can get into the BIOS and make it boot from install media, they are going to have to blow away my root partition, and any personal information I chose to leave on it. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 15:44:32 2006 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 11:44:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Webalizer In-Reply-To: <200609301220.37156.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <3083.66.11.182.5.1159546979.squirrel@canuckster.org> <200609291624.38924.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <4341.66.11.182.5.1159571995.squirrel@canuckster.org> <200609301220.37156.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <4426.66.11.182.5.1159631072.squirrel@canuckster.org> I did... CustomLog logs/access_log combined ...and it worked. I didn't do it for each virtual host, just in the general configuration. > On Friday 29 September 2006 19:19, Jason Carson wrote: >> > On Friday 29 September 2006 14:22, Jason Carson wrote: >> >> > Are you sure that you are logging referrers in your apache (or other?) >> > logfile? >> >> How do I do that? I am using Apache 2.0.58 > > Find where your logfile is defined in apache config (usually > under /etc/httpd, /etc/apache or /etc/apache2). For my logfiles I have > one > line like this for each virtual host: > > CustomLog /var/log/apache/www.SOMEDOMAIN.com-access.log combined > > The key word is combined, this tells apache to log in the combined format. > > The "combined" format is a standard logformat that is actually defined > elsewhere in your apache config like this (in my case > in /etc/apache/httpd.conf): > > LogFormat "%h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b \"%{Referer}i\" \"%{User-Agent}i\" > \"%{forensic-id}n\"" combined > > (above should be on a single line) but your apache config probably already > defines that. Here is a line from one of my apache logs: > > 68.72.172.230 - - > [30/Sep/2006:12:03:56 -0400] "GET > /articles/2006/09/11/rhel5-beta-now-available > HTTP/1.1" 200 > 10000 > "http://www.google.com/search?q=rhel5+&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&start=20&sa=N" > "Mozilla/5.0 > (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9a1) Gecko/20060926 > Minefield/3.0a1" "-" > > In addition to the standard log items you can see from the above that the > user > found the page via google, what search term they used and what browser/os > they claim to be using. > > Check out the apache docs on custom log formats at > http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_log_config.html#formats ... > combined > is a relatively standard format that most log analysers will recognize > immediately, deviating too much from the "standards" will make your log > analyzing tougher. > > -- > Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ > Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 20:15:23 2006 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 16:15:23 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <20060930132027.363b1f7b.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <20060928140918.1d40aba2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20060930132027.363b1f7b.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <200609301615.24236.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On Saturday 30 September 2006 13:20, Howard Gibson wrote: > I did not set up a /home partition on my laptop. If someone > steals it, I want to maximize the difficulties of getting it to do > anything, much less provide access to all my files. With a little > luck, the Red Hat sticker will get the point across, ahead of time. > > If the thief can get into the BIOS and make it boot from install > media, they are going to have to blow away my root partition, and > any personal information I chose to leave on it. Wouldn't taking the hard drive out and attaching it to another machine, which boots from another device, circumvent the BIOS lock? -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 20:36:29 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 16:36:29 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <200609301615.24236.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <20060928140918.1d40aba2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20060930132027.363b1f7b.hgibson@eol.ca> <200609301615.24236.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: It would get around the BIOS boot issue, but he just implied that even then, they would not be able to see his data, which implies the use of encryption. If encryption is not being used, then it's plain wrong to think that a thief with physical access to your HDD will not be able to access your data. On 9/30/06, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On Saturday 30 September 2006 13:20, Howard Gibson wrote: > > If the thief can get into the BIOS and make it boot from install > > media, they are going to have to blow away my root partition, and > > any personal information I chose to leave on it. > > Wouldn't taking the hard drive out and attaching it to another > machine, which boots from another device, circumvent the BIOS lock? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 20:42:34 2006 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 16:42:34 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: References: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <200609301642.35010.marc@lijour.net> On September 29, 2006 11:29 pm, Simon wrote: > Can you elaborate? I invite you and the interested TLUGers to gather around a table to discuss the following points. 1. what can FOSS and Linux can offer to the Ontario schools they don't already have 2. TCO 3. linux advocacy 4. existing educational projects involving FOSS you know about 5. FOSS evaluation (openBRR and similar) I believe FOSS and Linux are under represented in our government and educational institutions in Ontario. My purpose is to survey the FOSS and Linux offer in order to confirm or not my feelings. This is a first step. If the outcomes shows that FOSS is actually under or misrepresented, we could discuss the possible causes and remedies. But this won't happen before we can get a fair panoramic view of FOSS and what it brings to the table. In terms of software acquisition, I see 2 main criteria: features and price. I regard as fair that FOSS compete with proprietary software, and that for equal features the lesser priced software is the one we want. Is that naive? We are lucky to have very knowledgeable FOSS advocates in TO and in this list. If we could gather 3 or 4 around a table for a first round it would be great. I have some contact with the provincial government and we can see where this leads to. Any volunteer? Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 21:15:15 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 17:15:15 -0400 Subject: At the US border In-Reply-To: <451E5633.9060201-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1159234583.3936.15.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45185A6E.4000809@zleap.net> <451E5633.9060201@rogers.com> Message-ID: hah, so much for the term being self-explanatory.. On 9/30/06, James Knott wrote: > Last week, I was speaking to someone who thought open source was the > same thing as cracked software! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 21:19:36 2006 From: simon80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simon) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 17:19:36 -0400 Subject: Wikipedia software In-Reply-To: <1158851169.23483.4.camel@home> References: <57175.66.11.182.5.1158825961.squirrel@canuckster.org> <1158851169.23483.4.camel@home> Message-ID: If you want to set it up with a minimal amount of knowledge, I recently got mediawiki working in a fresh Ubuntu install, you just have to enable the universe repository and there's a package for mediawiki. Then you can go to localhost/mediawiki and configure it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 21:32:10 2006 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 17:32:10 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <200609301615.24236.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <20060928140918.1d40aba2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20060930132027.363b1f7b.hgibson@eol.ca> <200609301615.24236.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20060930173210.5762e2d2.hgibson@eol.ca> On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 16:15:23 -0400 CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On Saturday 30 September 2006 13:20, Howard Gibson wrote: > > I did not set up a /home partition on my laptop. If someone > > steals it, I want to maximize the difficulties of getting it to do > > anything, much less provide access to all my files. With a little > > luck, the Red Hat sticker will get the point across, ahead of time. > > > > If the thief can get into the BIOS and make it boot from install > > media, they are going to have to blow away my root partition, and > > any personal information I chose to leave on it. > > Wouldn't taking the hard drive out and attaching it to another > machine, which boots from another device, circumvent the BIOS lock? Clifford, I didn't say I could make it impossible. Making it difficult stops most bad people. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 21:26:02 2006 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 17:26:02 -0400 Subject: At the US border In-Reply-To: References: <1159234583.3936.15.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <45185A6E.4000809@zleap.net> <451E5633.9060201@rogers.com> Message-ID: <451EE0EA.20805@rogers.com> Well, he's the sort who thinks it OK to pirate software. Simon wrote: > hah, so much for the term being self-explanatory.. > > On 9/30/06, *James Knott* > wrote: > > Last week, I was speaking to someone who thought open source was the > same thing as cracked software! > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 22:07:20 2006 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 18:07:20 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <20060930173210.5762e2d2.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <20060928140918.1d40aba2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20060930132027.363b1f7b.hgibson@eol.ca> <200609301615.24236.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20060930173210.5762e2d2.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20060930180720.591lvkn3pcskw040@mail.math.yorku.ca> Howard Gibson wrote: > On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 16:15:23 -0400 > CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >> On Saturday 30 September 2006 13:20, Howard Gibson wrote: >> >>> I did not set up a /home partition on my laptop. If someone >>> steals it, I want to maximize the difficulties of getting it to do >>> anything, much less provide access to all my files. With a little >>> luck, the Red Hat sticker will get the point across, ahead of time. >>> >>> If the thief can get into the BIOS and make it boot from install >>> media, they are going to have to blow away my root partition, and >>> any personal information I chose to leave on it. >> >> Wouldn't taking the hard drive out and attaching it to another >> machine, which boots from another device, circumvent the BIOS lock? > > I didn't say I could make it impossible. Making it difficult > stops most bad people. I don't understand why you think they'd have to delete your root partition. If they get around the bios, they can boot from a live CD, and then mount your root partition at some other mount point, unless I'm missing something. Takes a little knowledge but not very much. OTOH if you make /home a separate partition, then you can use AES loopback and encrypt it; this is presumably makes certain scenarios a little easier on you than if you were to encrypt the whole ball of wax, including the stuff that's needed at boot time. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 22:37:51 2006 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 18:37:51 -0400 Subject: Life on the bleeding edge In-Reply-To: <20060930180720.591lvkn3pcskw040-eRF/mgt17vYuqM34mc2EBrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <45122706.90102@telly.org> <20060928140918.1d40aba2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <20060930132027.363b1f7b.hgibson@eol.ca> <200609301615.24236.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20060930173210.5762e2d2.hgibson@eol.ca> <20060930180720.591lvkn3pcskw040@mail.math.yorku.ca> Message-ID: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org wrote: > Howard Gibson wrote: >> On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 16:15:23 -0400 >> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >>> On Saturday 30 September 2006 13:20, Howard Gibson wrote: >>> >>>> I did not set up a /home partition on my laptop. If someone >>>> steals it, I want to maximize the difficulties of getting it to do >>>> anything, much less provide access to all my files. With a little >>>> luck, the Red Hat sticker will get the point across, ahead of time. >>>> >>>> If the thief can get into the BIOS and make it boot from install >>>> media, they are going to have to blow away my root partition, and >>>> any personal information I chose to leave on it. >>> >>> Wouldn't taking the hard drive out and attaching it to another >>> machine, which boots from another device, circumvent the BIOS lock? >> >> I didn't say I could make it impossible. Making it difficult stops >> most bad people. > > I don't understand why you think they'd have to delete your root partition. > If they get around the bios, they can boot from a live CD, and then mount > your root partition at some other mount point, unless I'm missing > something. > Takes a little knowledge but not very much. > > OTOH if you make /home a separate partition, then you can use AES loopback > and encrypt it; this is presumably makes certain scenarios a little easier > on you than if you were to encrypt the whole ball of wax, including the > stuff that's needed at boot time. At which point if someone is after your data, they take an image of your encrypted drive, install some sort of rootkit to call home and upload any changed sectors to a remote system, then xor the two (old image and new sector) together... Then they return the unit with a smile, claiming the best of intentions (you do have a business card on the bottom of your laptop?). Might as well go encrypted for the whole system unless you find the performance hit is substantial. I could be off on this, but there is a way using xor on sectors to get at any changed encrypted data. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 19:21:47 2006 From: jay-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 15:21:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Crontab Message-ID: <1864.66.11.182.5.1159644107.squirrel@canuckster.org> Greetings, How do I run a program every half hour? Thanks Jay -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 23:28:12 2006 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 19:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Crontab In-Reply-To: <1864.66.11.182.5.1159644107.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <1864.66.11.182.5.1159644107.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Sep 2006, Jason Carson wrote: > Greetings, > > How do I run a program every half hour? In your crontab file put: 0,30 * * * * /path/to/program Or, if you prefer: 5,33 * * * * /path/to/program Or... -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 23:29:10 2006 From: john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org (john-Da48MpWaEp0CzWx7n4ubxQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 23:29:10 +0000 Subject: Crontab In-Reply-To: <1864.66.11.182.5.1159644107.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <1864.66.11.182.5.1159644107.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <1259238751-1159659024-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-22269822-@bxe023-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Use cron Add a line like; */30 * * * * command The format iis different between /etc/crontab and user crontabs. Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network -----Original Message----- From: "Jason Carson" Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 15:21:47 To:tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Crontab Greetings, How do I run a program every half hour? Thanks Jay -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 23:38:33 2006 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 19:38:33 -0400 Subject: Crontab In-Reply-To: <1864.66.11.182.5.1159644107.squirrel-ttDcVxANFaNM656bX5wj8A@public.gmane.org> References: <1864.66.11.182.5.1159644107.squirrel@canuckster.org> Message-ID: <200609301938.33635.softquake@gmail.com> On Saturday 30 September 2006 15:21, Jason Carson wrote: > Greetings, > > How do I run a program every half hour? > Google -> crontab ;) You can always put two entries instead of one, shifted for half an hour ;) zb. > Thanks > > Jay -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 30 22:13:48 2006 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 18:13:48 -0400 Subject: Linux in Education In-Reply-To: <200609301642.35010.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200609291754.24842.marc@lijour.net> <200609301642.35010.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <20060930221348.GA7724@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Sep 30, 2006 at 04:42:34PM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > Any volunteer? Count me in. As for venue, pubs/bars tend to be way too noisy. How about Linuxcaffe or Starbucks. Or, restaurant or someone's BBQ (I can't think on empty stomach). -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists